manga-theories

[fathom matrix]

Kinda, like. Yaknow when you're told bad news, but depending on the execution, you might be pissed as hell, or so shocked, you just laugh?

[zinc iris]

well he said he wishes he lived in Joyboy's time so it doesn't seem that bad

[fathom matrix]

It could be something like what a lot of people theorised, where it was so technologicallyt advanced, but the world government took it all away and buggered up the world.

So maybe he could put at the end "AND YA KNOW THE FUNNY PART?.....THE WORLD GOVERNMENT TOOK IT ALL AWAY!"

So it's like, the entire OP world got cucked hard, that they couldn't help but laugh.

[zinc iris]

dunno

but in what the AK was I imagined a think framing it in the terms of french revolution and how it was mostly betrayed
the ak was the nobility and clergy
the wg is the bourgeoisie
joyboy and its allies are the jacobins

[obtuse void]

Ryuma's right eye is patched as a zombie , Zoro's right eye was scared in the 2 years training , what if Ryuma's spirit entered Zoro and will one day give me the same level of power as Ryuma

[queen arrow]

it's more of a patch across his face than on the eye

also, no, that's stupid

[keen portal]

What did I just read

[night jewel]

yea his eye is barely covered lol

[loud ibex]

Praying for spoilers to come tomorrow 🙏

[queen arrow]

not the channel for that

[cursive tree]

big brain

[blazing fable]

Plus he already defeated ryuma so doesn’t that mean he already surpassed him? Or did he technically defeat brook?

[cunning fog]

it was brooks skills + ryumas instincts, defeating real ryuma would have been harder imo

[queen arrow]

it was more like a buffed Brook than Ryuma tbh

this point also doesn't really matter, since Zoro obviously wasn't possessed by a ghost during the timeskip

[proven sand]

I sent this theory in the regular manga chat and two people liked it so I decided to put it in here too
I don’t exactly know where this was but I remember usopp lying about how he defeated ten shadow monsters and since all of usopp’s lies eventually come true I was wondering what this would be and I think I might have figured it out. I think that usopp’s main fight in Wano will be against the numbers since they are ten monsters

[blazing fable]

Are there any theories on Zoro’s eye that hold water? All I know is it doesn’t look like a training accident. Is he gonna grow a Mihawk eye?

[pure raven]

Maybe it was the ghosts at thriller park @proven sand

[zinc iris]

it was a decaying corpse with brook's abilities and ryuma's memories
he recognized Zoro's worth and him being a suitable wielder of his sword but it's nowhere near beating the real deal

[supple nimbus]

Too early?

[loud ibex]

Nah last time they came on Tuesday

[supple nimbus]

Oooooh then hopefully. Also hoping it'll be called something along the lines of "Cat Burglar - Nami"

[loud ibex]

Yuhh and we’ll see Go D. Ussop

[supple nimbus]

Oooh can't wait for the Sanji chapter, he might finally meet Yamato....

[loud ibex]

I want to go to the room top man 🥲

[cunning fog]

i wanna see jimbei's fight

[loud ibex]

Yuh yuh yuh

[full haven]

What about Orochi and his heads?

[ancient vault]

[ancient vault]

real ryuma prob wouldve wiped the floor with zoro and its not even close 💀

[zinc iris]

real ryuma could have soloed the entirety of TB

[proven sand]

He didn’t defeat him tho

[proven sand]

That is definitely a possibility but I’m too lazy to count how many he fought

[full haven]

how you know he is completely dead? usually when you cut the head off a hydra 2 grow back

[amber oar]

Orochi is not a hydra

[keen portal]

orochi's is not a hydra fruit

[proven sand]

Also I think saying that orochi is 10 monsters is kind of cheating and doesn’t really count

[acoustic helm]

Ryuma strength made WG tremble in fear

[mystic crown]

The thing is Ryuma is one of two characters to forge a black blade and is revered as a sword god. Im aure if Oden grew he may have reached that level but i wpuld be willing to bet hes one of the greatest swordsman of all time

[dusky acorn]

I'd like to know what other specific legends Ryuma was known for. The dragon slaying over the capital is what's always talked about, and even the scene shown in "Monsters", but Onimaru said it's only one out of a plethora of them. So what other kind of feats could he have done in his lifetime, and did he die of natural causes?

[waxen light]

I wonder if the legend of Ryuma killing a dragon hasn't evolved over time to be more literal and it was actually a CD he killed. Could be why Wano isn't affiliated with the WG? Guess that depends at what point in time did Ryuma live.

[queen arrow]

nah i'm pretty sure he killed an actual Dragon

and Wano just didn't ally with the WG because they didn't want to as they're an isolationist country

[waxen light]

I got the impression that they weren't always. Oden said that the Kozuki clan was responsible for closing the nation long ago. I interpreted that as it was open to the world at one point. 🤷

[polar bison]

maybe it was conflated with his monsters feat

[pure raven]

so i was reading ch. 1003 again and this panel seems suspicious 2 me i can be wrong but but but i want'ed to ask in this panel there is something which i don't understand which is*** ,why CP0 is invited at feast did CP0 have some alter motives with kaido*** ,we know that that WG do shady business of weapons in wano but being invited to feast did not make sense after all kaido is a threat to WG

[queen arrow]

they where probably invited by Orochi

[cursive tree]

Wait they are in wano ?? Im so dumb

[pure raven]

what about " AND THE FEAST THEY INVITED US TO" what does **they **stand 4

[gloomy kayak]

I think they will show up after this fight ends

[queen arrow]

they don't say "they" in the official translation, and it could always be refering to Orochi and his subordinates

[pure raven]

ok tq 4 help

[pure raven]

SogeKing is actually Ace and he is still alive or SogeKing might be roger

[snow herald]

Has this theory been put up? I thought of it kinda randomly and wouldn't mind it at all.
On laugh tale, they found out that it's not the last island but there are actually more places to visit just not on this planet. Hence they laughed at the irony, literally everyone thought/thinks it was the final destination. But also that roger didn't have the time to go on. We know that there are moon and sky civilizations and stuff. Kind of a possibility, imo.

[ancient vault]

Well that still makes it the last island on earth

[dusky acorn]

Sounds pretty cool, though wouldn't it take away from the experience of Laugh Tale if we learn there's even grander sort of adventures out there? Just seems sorta weird to include in, because it's not like we'll be able to explore those other places during the story ourselves. And yeah, keep things serious or don't use this channel. @pure raven

[sullen sage]

Does anybody else think the war arc oda mentioned will be a war with the strawhat grand fleet

[dark palm]

they will be involved, yeah

we got this sequence during chapter 800

[dusky acorn]

Due to this quote, I've seen people already correlating that "great incident" the Grand Fleet was said to eventually cause as Barto burning down Shanks' flag. Like, that small event will end up being a domino effect until a whole war breaks out

Depends on if Shanks goes to the allied island himself or not, if he does then all the other big figures might start moving

At the very least, some RHP in general should be on his case

[frozen prairie]

Isn't it pretty explicit that they're interacting directly with Kaido because Doflamingo is locked up now? CP0 used his as a broker, now that they can't anymore, they have to talk directly to Orochi. Being someone VERY interested in flaunting his power and stature, you could be kinda confident he'd invite the representatives of the WG to a party that (he thought) essentially existed to glorify him.

[pure raven]

prolly

[sharp cedar]

I have a feeling CP0 will go after Momo.

[dusky acorn]

Well, CP0 jumping in as fighters or pursuers on Momo to retrieve the fruit by killing him, or merely to dispose of it once and for all (if it can't respawn since it's artificial) would be interesting. Thing is, not many people have been expecting CP0 to be playing a fighting role here.
Although from the latest chapter, there's certainly set-up for a future moment where CP0 will be surprised by the power of Momo's fruit, and begin doubting the integrity of the "failure" dubbing by Vegapunk.

[sharp cedar]

"Thing is, not many people have been expecting CP0 to be playing a fighting role here."
And that in itself is all the more reason they will get involved. Oda has a habit of doing things which are completely unexpected

I also have a feeling the World Government does not want Wano to be open to the world

There is some history there and I am sure that they don't want Momo to be the shogun who opens up Wano as Oden had wished

[dusky acorn]

Well I'd definitely take it. At the end of the day it's only a child who has the fruit, so CP0 would have no reason not to at least try killing him since he's the bearer of the fruit, so it doesn't brew up as a potential bigger problem in the future. The bowler hat agent even said he was relieved it probably no longer existed/was a failure

[ancient vault]

They will go after Momo and Tama

[sharp cedar]

The whole Wano being closed to the world thing is completely unexplained. Oden wanted Wano to be open and Momo knew that. He will open Wano if he becomes shogun. Something is big is connected to Wano being open to the outside world. The World Government has been around for 800 years or more so they must have some connection there. It could be they prefer Wano to be closed to the outside world and may try to prevent anything that changes the status quo. Oda has always hinted that Wano would be a special arc and so far it has not been as special as many of us had anticipated. Certainly nothing game changing has happened so far and even if Kaido and Big Mom are defeated, I would not consider that to be special because we all knew that both Yonkos would be defeated.

[ancient vault]

The WG tried to take over wano but failed miserably because of ryuma to the point where they gave up.
2 yonkos teaming up and declaring war on the world is already game changing
Shichibukai system abolished, SSH

[amber oar]

you mean SSG

[sharp cedar]

Shichibukai system being abolished was part of Reverie (although it came in between Wano)

[versed hamlet]

do you think that cp0 might try to kill vegapunk? after the ssg's weapon has been made there's no use to him and he's already pretty sus with his other connections so they might try to assassinate him

[ancient vault]

wdym theres no use

if they didnt fire him after refusing to give out the dragon fruit they wont do shit to gim just cause the SSG is done

[versed hamlet]

what would they need vegapunk for anymore if they succeed in taking down the shichibukai

[sharp cedar]

"2 yonkos teaming up and declaring war on the world is already game changing"
If both Big Mom and Kaido are defeated then it would still be game changing but for us fans, we had expected that outcome. Think from our point of view. If this is the only outcome from Wano that those two are defeated, then in my humble opinion, the hype which had built around Wano would come crashing down

[versed hamlet]

not fire him but kill him cuz he most definitely knows stuff that the wg doesnt want others to know

[ancient vault]

yes but the WG cant afford to kill him. Thry need him and I doubt the SSG is enough to th point where they are indepedent

[sharp cedar]

I think Vegapunk will betray the World Government and join Sword if he is not already part of it. But that is likely to happen at the end of One Piece. For now, I think Vegapunk will continue to work for the WG

[versed hamlet]

ok yeah thats a good point, but there is a possibility that the ssg's weapon is like crazy busted

[dusky acorn]

The real hype you're looking for Conch (which from what I gather isn't action, but information/world-building) will probably come from the spoils of this war, as you alluded to. Things like deciphering the Road poneglyph Kaido has, along with the other 2 normal glyphs in the country, as well as whatever the next interlude has in store.

[sharp cedar]

Vegapunk must be one of those complicated characters who has some reservations about the Marines and World Government (just like Smoker, Garp, Coby) but still wants to work for them and believes they are better than pirates

[sharp cedar]

But are you going to be satisfied with just that? From how Oda had spoken of Wano, we were expecting things to be as crazy as Marineford

I really think it has to get crazier than that

And we are coming close to that point. I mean all the fodder has been defeated or has switched sides. So all that is left is the Tobi roppo, the all-stars, Kaido and Big Mom. Something tells me shi* would hit the ceiling in the next few chapters

[ancient vault]

Do you not think taking down 2 yonkos is already crazy?

[sharp cedar]

In a sense it is. But the way I think is that it is something that we expect already from this arc. I don't think Oda will just do what we expect already. Also, I do not think Luffy and others are capable of beating Big Mom and Kaido on their own but lets not go there for now.

[dusky acorn]

If you're citing the quote where Oda stated an upcoming conflict will make Marineford pale in comparison, that was supposedly in reference to the final war, not what's going down now in Wano.

The windows for entirely new players who weren't already in Wano to make their entrance has ended, so I'm not sure what can possibly happen to make the arc any more special for you.
Since this is more of a subjective gripe I can't really get on you for it, but if you're not satisfied with half the Yonko collapsing and 3 poneglyphs being read afterwards I'm not sure what more could make it more exciting/unexpected for you.

Like, usually the way things go in story is there's set-up to events. Random hype moments out of the blue aren't supposed to happen often which is what I assume you're wanting

[sharp cedar]

"If you're citing the quote where Oda stated an upcoming conflict will make Marineford pale in comparison, that was supposedly in reference to the final war, not what's going down now in Wano. "
No. Oda has spoken of Wano being special many times in the past. I do not have the quotes I right now but I know he said that

[cunning compass]

i dont think Wano is going to be the most important arc in the new world

[dusky acorn]

Oh gotcha, I actually haven't heard those discussed often since we're already in the thick of Wano and most folks seem to be pleased with how it's shaping up

[sharp cedar]

Not the most important because the final war and the battle against Blackbeard pirates should be more important than that. But still it has been hyped for years by Oda as something major

[waxen light]

I don't understand the need for Oda to surprise us with unexpected things in order to subvert our expectations. Is a good emotional story and action set pieces not enough?

[woeful coral]

i still don't understand - you don't see the conflict between numerous members of the worst generation and two yonko as "something major"? this is already beyond the scale of anything that came before, besides arguably marineford

and already as stated, the spoils of this war will be extremely consequential for the final part of the series

[sharp cedar]

I won't be disappointed if I am wrong. I am not one of those who whine and cry if my things turn out different from my expectations

But yes I do believe things will go much crazier then they are now.

[waxen light]

To be clear, I wasn't saying you were whining or anything like that. I just see that sentiment repeated here again and again; that Oda needs to have something crazy at the end of this cause obviously the stuff we expect to happen will happen.

[sharp cedar]

I know you did not say that. I am just saying that I won't be too disappointed if what you guys say is all that happens

[woeful coral]

i think you are setting your expectations too high, i don't understand how things have been disappointing for you thus far

[waxen light]

Okay just making sure. Wasn't trying to insult or anything. I'm just confused why Oda needs to have something like that. I would be pretty content with just seeing the good guys win and the story progressing.

[sharp cedar]

Lol. They are not disappointing.

I like what has happened so far

Don't get me wrong there.

[woeful coral]

that's exactly what you're inferring though. "things will go much crazier then they are now" & "I won't be too disappointed if what you guys say is all that happens" - you're saying you'll be disappointed if things don't "get crazier" despite the conflict at a level of escalation that is almost unprecedented in the series

[sharp cedar]

But another thing unusual is that stakes are not that high since the battle started. The Straw Hats have not had many anxious moments and there have only been minor hiccups during the battle. The only major setback during the battle has been the defeat of the Scabbards.

[sharp cedar]

No. I have an expectation and that is all there is to it. Just because something turns out different from what you expect, does not mean you have to be disappointed

[woeful coral]

"But still it has been hyped for years by Oda as something major" - it seems like you're saying that the "something major" is an event which hasn't occurred yet. am I getting that right?

i could go on to explain why the stakes are actually very high unlike what you believe, but it's easier to just say I don't think many people are expecting more (e.g. the raid failing or a deus ex machina)

[sharp cedar]

I mean the whole Wano arc

This is just one recent comment Oda made about Wano back in 2018:
https://i.imgur.com/JnWsW3c.png

[waxen light]

I don't know, I feel like it's lived up so far. We've had Kin'emon and Momo along the SH for so long now that I'm emotionally invested in their struggle. Absolutely nothing has been a let down so far for me.

[sharp cedar]

Over the years he has made many remarks about Wano

[dark palm]

I'd say the stakes are extremely high on the roof atm...

[dark palm]

the "marineford" thing is not directly referring to wano, and the lurking legend is big mom + kaido reviving the "rocks" alliance

[sharp cedar]

I think there is some confusion in the community there

[dark palm]

there definitely is

[sharp cedar]

Yes, he definitely said that the final arc would put marineford to shame but that was a different remark

[dark palm]

most people are still waiting on said "lurking legend" even though the strawhats are fighting it right now

[sharp cedar]

These are his exact words:

"Hello. It’s Oda. Are you enjoying Jump Festa? I am also watching the One Piece Super Stage Event. It’s fun. Each year I visit Jump Festa and eat with the voice actors. One Piece will finally go to Wano next year! Some of you may remember I said this last year. I did think that Wano would start in 2017. I have some new information, I will introduce a legend lying dormant in the One Piece world. The strongest enemy the Straw Hats have encountered. It may be related to Whitebeard. The Marineford Arc will seem cute compared to what is coming."

And I remember how Oda had spoken about Wano being special and something he has working towards in a comment going back more than a decade

Anyways

Lets just end this. We will know soon enough how crazy Wano gets from here. If it does not get as crazy as I think it would, I would still be fine with it.

[gloomy canyon]

It's already crazy

[young owl]

SHANKS

[zinc iris]

I still think it's so improper to consider Kaido and Big Mom alliance a lurking legend

it's not lurking and not a legend

[dark palm]

their alliance was something unprecedented

this panel is the ultimate justification

nothing else makes sense

[pastel summit]

I will introduce a legend lying dormant in the One Piece world.
lurking legend is meme community name, but yeah. the revival of "Rocks" in the sense of big pirates teaming up with each other is what it means.

[zinc iris]

yes but lurking legend (or laying dormant) is some long lost entity showing up again
these two are very active pirates that formed a new alliance yesterday

[pastel summit]

and 2 emperors teaming up is 100% the largest threat the SHs will ever face.

[zinc iris]

yes but this means it's a new thing in the world history

[pastel summit]

yes, but it's the spirit of rocks that was laying dormant

[zinc iris]

not some ancient thing showing up again after being forgotten

[pastel summit]

not those pirates themselves. The point is that they're teaming up, not that they exist.

[zinc iris]

and calling it the return of rocks
it's as if Paul McCartney and Ringo Starr write a piece together and we call it the return of the Beatles despite the fact that isn't even half the band and John Lennon is dead
where is the legend in this
they don't embody nothing but themselves

[pastel summit]

it's literally referenced as such in the manga itself. did you read the page juba posted?

[zinc iris]

then the manga made a mistake lol

[pastel summit]

no, you just have a bad misconception.

[zinc iris]

nah because my example above is just that

calling this the return of rocks is an overreach to generate hype

this is two subordinates of rocks making their own alliance when the captain himself has been dead for 40 years and the rest of the band like wb or shiki isn't involved at all

[pastel summit]

Yes, obviously it's not the full fucking crew. Half of them have died. The point is that it's the embodiment of what the "Rocks" crew was. Powerful pirates teaming up with each other, to create a near indomitable force. Which is exactly what has happened when BM and Kaido teamed up. It's already viewed as something not even the Marines can handle, by someone who fought Rocks (Garp). It's further emphasized by the fact that these 2 strong pirates were legitimately part of Rocks as well.

[zinc iris]

that oda tries to sell this as the return of rocks is very misleading

[pastel summit]

no, you're just being too literal about it.

[dark palm]

most of the HQ marines didn't even know about rocks

[pastel summit]

"It can't be called the return of rocks unless xebec himself returns from the grave "

[zinc iris]

well yes, he is rocks after all

or at least someone that directly takes after him

it's not like those two are even attempting to claim his name

[queen arrow]

Wano, related to Whitebeard, a legend, the greatest enemy ever, it seems pretty clear that Oda is talking about the Rocks pirates, being represented by Big Mom and Kaido's alliance

[zinc iris]

they are devising their own way to take over the world that's unique to them

[pastel summit]

Yes, obviously it's not the full fucking crew. Half of them have died. The point is that it's the embodiment of what the "Rocks" crew was. Powerful pirates teaming up with each other, to create a near indomitable force. Which is exactly what has happened when BM and Kaido teamed up. It's already viewed as something not even the Marines can handle, by someone who fought Rocks (Garp). It's further emphasized by the fact that these 2 strong pirates were legitimately part of Rocks as well.

bolded because you didn't read it the first time.

[queen arrow]

if you want another point to this, Kaido also forms his crew by taking strong pirate captains under him

[pastel summit]

it's a "new age" rocks, but created by the old age who were part of it. Obviously it doesn't have as many "big names", but Kaido and BM's armies are massive, and probably able to rival Marine HQ in numbers alone.

that too.

[fringe tide]

I doubt kaido and especially bm rival marine hq in numbers, a lot of bms residents are civilians and kaido if the numbers were even or close to the marines he would imo start the “great war “ that he wants already

[pure raven]

Wb could handle a good sum of them with his crew alone

[dusky acorn]

Throwing out a wild idea that was sparked upon me earlier today again, to get some general thoughts before I go inside a potentially huge theory ant-hill.

What is your guys' opinion on Kid having some special, or maybe even a lineage of royalty originally? Good, bad, repetitive?

This is of course is going along with the predisposed notion of Oda wanting Kid to be important.
Before you answer the question, one bombshell I'll give you guys to marinate over is how he's constantly portrayed alongside Luffy and Law, both of which characters who already have special blood in their own right, as not only D members, but the former even being Dragon's son.

Therefore, is Kid meant to represent something else alongside them, or is he just a regular guy without an important background, and just meant to stay for the rest of the story as the static character he is now.

[polar bison]

sengoku if anything frames BM and Kaidou as a bigger combined threat than Rocks ever was simply due to how much stronger they’ve both gotten in the intervening 40 years

[fringe tide]

I wish that oda had made 1 a “d,” 1 a celestial, and 1 either “mixed” or a reincarnation of someone from the blank century instead of having both law and luffy be “d” and kid “special” just by having coc

[pastel summit]

Kaido has 30k under him, including the wano samurai. BM has a bunch of allied crews through marriages and such, as well as having a lot of "infinite" armies.

[polar bison]

wasnt the number of marine elites present at marineford stated to be 100k at some point

[pastel summit]

I believe so, yeah.

[polar bison]

definitely something doable for Kaidou and BM’s forces to overcome

[fringe tide]

Yeah but thats just i think it was captains and higher members, who knows how many fodder soldiers the marines have

[dusky acorn]

Having one of the trio being a fallen celestial would've been really cool if not for Oda already using that kind of plot-line on Doffy.

But yeah, just in general that's where the 'repetition' I was talking about earlier comes in. Oda would have to be really careful if he were to try making a special background for Kid, due to the amount special lineages have been used in the story already.

[pastel summit]

I believe it just means any marine officer. 'cause people like coby and helmeppo were there, also tashigi, and none of them at the time were ranked captain or higher.

[fringe tide]

I couldve sworn it was captains or higher but i maybe confusing it with a bustercall

[polar bison]

hmm

[pastel summit]

Oh, maybe not. I thought petty officers were officers, and I believe koby in MF was chief petty officer. or at least he was in W7. but yeah, I guess if it's counting only those ranks, then there are a lot of lower rank fodder uncounted for.

[polar bison]

it wasn’t just captains and above at marineford nvm yeah

it was captains at enies lobby end. it was just generally elites at mf

[pastel summit]

yeah. it just says "elite troops", but doesn't really define that. could just mean that everyone there was considered "elite"

[polar bison]

it’s just Oda’s shorthand for saying “these guys are properly scaled to the new world pirates im putting them up against”

[pastel summit]

I think Kid just represents a more... I can't even say unhinged 'cause Luffy does insane shit as well. Psychotic doesn't really feel appropriate, but he's more comparable to Luffy personality wise. He's also the youngest supernova aside from Luffy and Zoro, so there's that. I don't think he has some special background, unless the Shanks' brother meme is actually true. Doubt he is specifically royalty or anything like that though. Also doesn't really fit with what he said at the auction house if he was one. I guess it could, but idk. I think it'd be weird and a bit forced. then again, we don't know much about him in terms of backstory, so who knows.

He's definitely like a "luffy if he never met shanks" kinda deal

[dusky acorn]

Alright yeah, that's definitely the most reasonable assumption on what his role and background is meant to represent with the plain knowledge we have now.
I mostly thought the same before doing some further research, so maybe your opinion can budge once I write everything down later. I appreciate the contrarian opinion though

[fringe tide]

And for kid maybe not a celestial but some sort of king in the (west? Not sure which sea hes from) that gets wiped out and he ends up becoming dirt poor/beggar as a child, the reason hes looking for the op is for its riches

Roger did say fame power and riches, could be cool if he gave 1 to the trio. Power for luffy, fame for law, and riches to kid for their motivation in the beginning though with the current situation in manga it wouldnt really make sense to do that now

[queen arrow]

he's from south

[dusky acorn]

He's actually from the South yeah (which we barely know enough about ), so being one of the five western families in the same vein as Bege or something wouldn't work if that's what you may have implied

But I mean, both Kuma and Bonney were shown poor as children too and look where they've ended up now lol

So I guess MAYBE not

[waxen light]

I always saw Kidd as evil Luffy since they're so similar in personality and I felt like he kinda was there to showcase what would've happened to the SH if they had gone on to the new world immediately instead of the TS. Feels like the Kid Pirates took quite a beating since entering that stretch of the GL. Dudes have been taking some Ls for awhile.

[silver escarp]

apparently there s a theory where when kaido is defeated onigashima wud be falling and momo wud use his df to stop it

[polar bison]

idk that this is necessarily it. I’ve said this a couple times before in this server, but I think Law and Kidd each represent one aspect of Luffy’s chaotic tendencies.

• Law represents the part of him that rebels against authority and rules by his very existence, and so Law is a D and is connected to the parts of Luffy’s story to do with that.

• Kidd is there as the part of Luffy that wants to be better and stronger than everyone else and will fight anyone to prove it. And so he has CoC, and now that we’re getting into defeating the Yonkou, he’s become a big part of the story.

I don’t think meeting Shanks is what Kidd is lacking,it’s his general friendliness and disposition towards others. Luffy makes friends and finds reasons to fight where Kidd makes enemies or just finds reasons to scorn.

@dusky acorn think this is also relevant to u, idk if i’ve ever said this

[dusky acorn]

If we're to go by your opinion about the void of Shanks in Kid's life not having a bearing on his character, then that leads me to believe there must be some backstory to fill that void. What made him manifest to want to be better and stronger than everyone else is my ultimate question I still go back to, in that case.

While I can definitely vibe with this, the thing I don't want this symbolism to turn into is Law and Kid just feeling like incomplete fragments of Luffy's character. The best way this can go is if both of them actually accelerate beyond Luffy whilst representing those aspects of his character, in their own unique ways.

For Law, we've already seen this as he's taken an even greater and heightened interest in D. compared to Luffy, and this plot-line is shaping up for him to be a consistently relevant character.
That means for Kid, It'd be best for him to actually prove he's better/stronger as you say somehow by doing some feat beyond even Luffy, crazy as that may sound.

[pure raven]

I saw something that said they same about his crew

For example: Sanji is Luffys Glutton characteristic i forgot the rest

[polar bison]

fortunately for kidd there’s definitely avenues Oda can go to show that kinda vibe

have him become an emperor first, or have him kill kaidou after luffy defeats him, or just further increase his importance post wano

[dusky acorn]

That would be an amazing development Khi. As long as Luffy can still be the main one to end the fight, I don't think many would mind him taking a finishing blow, as that's already been built up as the kind of character he is. Literally been chasing this fight down for the prospect of no longer be underestimated and having his fame spread far and wide.
Luffy is already the perfect balance and jack of all trades of sorts, so it's great if Kid and Law go beyond the limit of what Luffy normally does for what they represent like this.

[ionic peak]

henlo fren
so the world government is the true evil on 800 years ago that destroyed the ancient kingdom, in fact dr clover founds it , they say he learn too much whoaahh

[pastel summit]

yeah this is fair. I didn't think too deeply about it, but that's a fair assessment.

[ionic peak]

if this is true, the world government gorosei is truly the main evil, see cp rob lucchy, he say, he not interest in status and honor, only in BLOOD, WG true face but masked with justice

[covert hazel]

I mean, that’s sort of the point of WG no?

Anyone who defends the celestial dragons can’t be good

[sharp hinge]

What do think the final war will be between is it luffy vs blackbeard or world government??

[ancient vault]

I don't think many would mind him taking a finishing blow, as that's already been built up as the kind of character he is
Zorotards are gonna go crazy LMAO

[grizzled fog]

A five way simultaneous attack could be pretty sick

For the end

[formal ocean]

Could be related to shiki, just read chapter 0 today and he's been plotting something for the past 20+ years

[ancient vault]

Nah its Rocks return (Bm and Kaido alliance)

[thick sky]

yeah it would be pointless for shiki to come in this way but what was the purpose of his introduction and abt him plotting

[formal ocean]

Not necessarily wano but shiki could be part of the giant final war

[wooden topaz]

is possible non-canon character join canon story ?

[formal ocean]

Chapter 0 is canon

[dusky acorn]

I've already seen Kid being completely discounted out of the equation and thrown him off as a "red herring" because people think him that saying he's going to kill Kaido multiple times only makes it less plausible somehow? When in reality, for us to go through such development of huge proportions like a Yonko's death, it's a given there needs to be that kind of ample build up so it doesn't feel completely out of left field when he does do it.
It's like saying the Navy going to kill Ace was a red herring and he was going to survive because the Navy kept saying they were going to do it again and again.

[dark palm]

shiki was even mentioned in story

he's been mentioned multiple times

was a rocks pirate, and the first guy to escape from impel down

[ancient vault]

How long was shiki escaping ID ago?

[dark palm]

22 years

[ancient vault]

So VP experimenting on Kaido was between 22 and 3/4 years ago?

[dark palm]

between 25 most likely

since we saw him in wano then

err

before 25*

I don't think Kaido was caught recently

[gloomy canyon]

Between 38 and 25 years ago, assuming he was caught after the fall of Rocks

[ancient vault]

"Its zoro he parallels ryuma" "Zoro kills the strongest character in the series" "No it doesnt fck up the real power hierarchy in the crew and the perception of others in the OP verse on the crews power hierarchy" "Zoro deserves to kill Kaido, dragon parallel go brrrrrrrrrrrrrr"

[ancient vault]

But wasnt it in ID?

[dark palm]

not necessarily

shiki was said to be the ONLY person

[ancient vault]

Thought it was stated

[dark palm]

so I think we can rule out ID

nah it wasn't

most likely he escaped on a transfer ship or something

[gloomy canyon]

It’s just said that Kaido was captured many times

[ancient vault]

So his crew freed him so it was 4 years ago when ace was on onig

[dark palm]

I mean maybe lol

[gloomy canyon]

I very much doubt Kaido has been captured since he’s been on Wano lmao

[dark palm]

wait no swrml, four years ago is when it exploded

[ancient vault]

VP did his speed experiments ( )

[pastel summit]

kaido was on punk hazard. not impel down.

[gloomy canyon]

It makes the most sense for him to have been captured after God Valley when he had a name for himself and was still trying to make it as his own pirate and form a crew

And before landing on Wano with an established crew and footing

So 38-25 years ago is the most likely timeline

[ancient vault]

boi got captured 18 times within like 13 years L WB would never

[ancient vault]

Theres a prison to hold him down?

[pastel summit]

he's a DF user, so yeah

the prison is seastone shackles lmao.

[ancient vault]

[dark palm]

held big mom down fine enough

[ancient vault]

And where did it go?

[dark palm]

was probably some cell that they shackled him to? idk

we didn't see every inch of PH

[waxen light]

my working theory is he escaped PH and recruited Queen there

[dark palm]

that would be cool wanze

[pastel summit]

idk what you mean. He was experimented on. His "prison" was the lab.

[ancient vault]

Imagine Kaido asked them "hey open this one for me real quick" like BM did to the beast pirates

[ancient vault]

But where did it go and why havent we seen it on PH? Assuming the fruits place and Kaidos prison are somewhat near?

[gloomy canyon]

Queen working on PH with VP and Judge would be insane. Would be cool if the way he’s mechanically augmented stems from Judge’s Germa research

[dark palm]

it doesn't have to be some grand thing

just a literal lab

[pastel summit]

wym by prison? Are you saying they had some separate facility just to hold kaido or something? There are a bunch of massive rooms

[dark palm]

punk hazard had multiple labs btw

[ancient vault]

Eh maybe im using the term wrong. I just mean a cell with like special adjustments such as lots of seastone shackles that'd be pretty obvious

[gloomy canyon]

But is it that hard to believe that a government funded super lab would have these types of precautions available?

[ionic peak]

akainu is WG slave dogg. he also only thirsty for blood, what a buncha of MUST TORTURED TO A SHAMELESS DEAD guy

[pastel summit]

why would anything need to happen to it though? Again, he doesn't necessarily need to be in a "cell". he'd obviously be held with seastone shackles WHILE they were experimenting on him also.

so whatever method they had to restrain him was portable.

[waxen light]

Maybe he was being transferred/escorted from ID to PH for experimentation. King's got those same skulls lapel things as Shiryu so maybe he met Kaido then too and in his escape he got a King/Queen twofer.

[pastel summit]

or they just held him in the lab that they experimented on him

[gloomy canyon]

Maybe they used some form of chemical gas to sedate him idk. It’s really not that hard to imagine a super high security lab being able to restrain him

[ancient vault]

pretty sure thats just a fashion symbol

[waxen light]

Likely the case but a man can dream

[dark palm]

ah yes the "I quit impel down" emblem

everyone who quits impel down has to wear it

[gloomy canyon]

Nah they get that badge if the successfully tortured over 1000 prisoners

[ancient vault]

Mhm ig, I feel like a cell would be more fitting for Kaido but if it was a random spontaneous experiment in the sense of "Kaido got captured gogogo experiment fast" ur explanation makes more sense

[pastel summit]

yeah but they don't need to construct a special cell for him regardless.

[dusky acorn]

Yeah the theory is watered down by the fact that Shiryu only wore the skulls after defecting, as part of his new BB pirate design. And skulls are a very common aesthetic in OP world, so yeah.

[gloomy canyon]

King a BB spy confirmed???

[ancient vault]

Shiryu King are brothers confirmed???

I wonder if this ties to onigashima or the ancient giants or maybe both

[dark palm]

ancient giants

which onigashima also ties to presumably

[gloomy canyon]

The numbers

[dark palm]

the numbers are failed ancient giants yeah

[ancient vault]

yeah thats what I meant with AG

Probably

Also Kaido named Onigashima

[ionic peak]

wait, ancient giant is like oras and oz ya?

[ancient vault]

oars or oars jr, yes

[ionic peak]

demn me just know it

[gloomy canyon]

Oars is an actual ancient giant. The numbers are failed experiments trying to clone ancient giants

[ancient vault]

I havent wrote this one out but I think Kaido in his young ages has heard or read about the tale of Oars

There are special designs on Onigashima that are 100% man made but the question of who and why someone came up with those designs still bothers me.
If you look at Onigashima even before Kaido had set foot on there the island was not populated before Kaido. Oden had called it an "empty island" and it was totally isolated and unrelated to the rest of Wano.
Next to that the island's name at least 30 years ago when the Whitebeard pirates arrived in Wano wasn't even Onigashima as Marco points out. It most likely didn't even have a name yet because it was so unimportant.
The carpenter that built it Onigashima is already known to us, its the legendary carpenter Minatomo. The one Franky was working for.
Usually when someone hires a carpenter he gives them either a full design plan or an idea on what to build. I feel like the same surely happened with Minatomo and Onigashima. I don't think Minatomo came up with the design of Onigashima but rather the one that commissioned him with the building of Onigashima: Kaido
The skull is not a real skull. It used to be a giant mountain but on Kaido's demand the carpenter constructed and shaped it into a giant skull. That is the reason why Oda didn't show us Onigashima in the Oden flashback until it was already finished. If we've seen it we would've noticed the skull is not real (well Kaido lifting it up already is a plus point). And if you look into the mansion you can see clear elements of rock of the mountain still being inside the castle. If it was a real skull it wouldn't have such things in there.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/810249516162351115/812633954661171240/unknown.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/810249516162351115/812634603067539467/unknown.png

Basically where Im getting at is that Oars legend at least partly had an effect on Kaidos character and dreams

Maybe thats why he called his crew the beast pirates since Oars epithet was "the beast"

[copper frost]

isnt it officially "hyakujū kaizokudan"

[ancient vault]

VIZ TL

I also think Kaido was born in Ringo but how I came to that conclusion might sound like a reach

[pastel summit]

isn't Oars the continent puller?

[copper frost]

yeah

[ancient vault]

yes, there are some parallels between Kaido and Oars aside from their appearance

[gloomy canyon]

Kaidos epithet is “of the beasts”

[ancient vault]

#manga-theories message
Here are the similarities I found. As well as expanding on North Blue again like I did with the south blue

[copper frost]

yeah "hyakujū no kaido" is what his epithet is

[ancient vault]

what does that mean?

[copper frost]

kaido of the hundred beasts i think is the best translation

[ancient vault]

Same thing

[copper frost]

or kaido, king of beasts

[ancient vault]

He wanted 100 Oarses since Oars = the beast which wouldve been the numbers

[pastel summit]

well, according to the wiki, Oars is known as "Devil" (魔人 Majin?);[1]
"Oars the Continent-Puller" (国引きオーズ Kunihiki Ōzu?)[5]"

beast isn't mentioned anywhere.

[ancient vault]

Im actually curious what you guys think about this. I wrote this out in my Kaido theory which I had to stop because I fucked up the timeline

The positioning and placing of each panel seems to add up with what was previously said in the manga.
The page is split vertically in two with Kaido and Ringo being on the left side while Oden and the Flower Capital are on the right.
Now this might be a reach but what is interesting here is that what is shown is the Flower Capital but NOT Kuri. Kuri is the place Oden was the Daimyo of and famous for but Oda decided to not place it into that panel. Instead he put the Flower Capital in there, the place he was born in and died.
If we go by this weird decision and the similarity of the two then:
--> Kaido was born/dies in Ringo!

Basing it on a single panel obviously isnt enough but this is a quite interesting detail I found and you can also connect Kaido to Onimaru or Kitsunes in general, obviously Ryuma, but also the one aspect the Shimotsukis were famous for which is hardiness, as well as the concept of "eternal graves" and Ringos ritual when someone dies I think you can also kind of see in Onigashima

Also this is quite weird. The symbol used to be Oden (the food) for Oden but within the past 4 years Yamato changed it to this fox

Kaido mightve replicated the skull and put the sword (idk if its real) there to honor Oarses death

We saw Oars jr fight with a sword so

But the sword in itself is already taller than an ancient giant so probably not real

He also stayed in Ringo when Onigashima was being buitl most likely. Or he was visiting Ringo. Either way for some reason he was in Ringo

Kaido referring to Haki as Ryuo even though only Wano citizens/inhabitants do that

Regarding this. Kaido seems to have knowledge about the old Kozukis for some reason. But we know he has no particular interest in any of Wanos clan history and their conflicts

Hes speaking as if he knows them for decades and Odens ancestors

[copper frost]

he knows about the kozuki and the kurozumi yes

[ancient vault]

He knows about the Old Kozuki Dignity which makes no sense if he really just came to wano 5 years ago. It doesnt even make sense if it was 10 or 20 years ago. Hes speaking of it as if he has known the Kozuki Clan and their history for centuries, generations after generations.
Saying he educated himself about it makes no sense again because he has no interest in the clans' past. I think he used to live there OR he read about them in the Oars tales/legends assuming ancient giants and Wano Kuni were allied. This would mean he just found out about them while actually being interested in Oars and his history

I think im gonna write this one fully out tomorrow after my exam

[sly pendant]

I also had the feeling that Kaido hat his own hatred against Wano. Because the things he is doing isn't just so he can build his empire. He is actually destroying the country. Feels like there is more to the story than just him wanting to make a bigger army.

[plush pike]

My guess he has some history in Onigashima.

[spare spire]

I read an interesting theory - that oden ate a devil fruit during his year with roger - the masu masu no mi fruit- the ability to mutiply his body. Kaido shot the duplicate body. He and Toki planned it. Ofcourse makes no sense !

[amber oar]

The "how" works, the "why" doesn't make sense

[cyan berry]

if he ate a random devil fruit during his travels you'd think he'd write about it in the log book he had and also tell his retainers about it

but regardless, had he had a devil fruit, it would be unlikely for him to be able to move at all in the boiling oil pot due to it being liquid. but that's just minor headcanon from me

[amber oar]

which is the issue with a lot of theories. Yeah, the existence of dfs can allow for basically everything... but how do you fit the events and why Oden would fake his death like that and disappear 20 years as his retainers and children suffer all they suffered

[spare spire]

ya , doesn't make...just passing what I read along. He could have used many duplicates then to kill kaido himself in the battle

[cyan berry]

also if it was a clone then he would've aged at least. this oden looks exactly like he did 20 years ago, no signs of aging. Doesn't really make sense does it?

just because devil fruits can technically do anything does not mean that anything is possible

[spare spire]

aging part is ok. as its time travel , so the duplicate shot by Kaido and the real oden time travelled with Toki's power

[cyan berry]

toki died

[spare spire]

there is no body...maybe it was her final act before death

[cyan berry]

click this link and read all the panels very carefully please #also-manga message

[spare spire]

well , her daughter did fake her death ! so who knows if mother did the same !! Anyway , will know soon. Oda purposely took a break on such a cliffhanger - so that there is this mad discussion in the community All good fun

[cyan berry]

"anything is possible" is not an argument. "we will know soon" is also not an argument

[spare spire]

who is arguing ?

isnt the channel name - "theories" ?

there is no right or wrong . No need to be toxic

[cyan berry]

a theory can be wrong and people can disagree with it. yours relies on the fact that Oden managed to get a devil fruit on his travels with Roger, and did not tell any of his most trusted retainers about it, leaving them to fend for themselves for 20 years until his clone magically appears in front of them 20 years later. Do you see the amount of hoops you are going through? When your theory has a character directly oppose everything we know about them then I feel that is when the theory is wrong.

[spare spire]

well , he also didn't tell any tell any of his retainers for 5 year why he was dancing like a mad man - so what about that

[cyan berry]

because by doing that he was protecting his country, not lying to their face about how he'd die today then appear in front of them 20 years later at the lowest point of their lives

[spare spire]

Also - pretty clear it's not my theory in my post above - its just what I read and have found interesting and found flaws myself and posted it

[pure raven]

https://youtu.be/iRa9EO1d8YQ

[random timber]

Anyone else catch the refernce with Sabo-Oden connection in ch 585 n 966?

[sturdy hawk]

Yes but oden isn't alive

[random timber]

Sabo was thought to be dead and is alive. Maybe it can apply to Oden.

[night jewel]

no.

[mint sentinel]

yeah i dont think oden is alive, we saw him dying, sabo we just had the "word" that he died

[random timber]

Right, i don't know how oden will be alive again. But just by speculation on life and faith connection, there might be some mindblow reveal. I hope...

[supple plover]

Maybe he has gotten a devil fruit on his adventures with roger, maybe some kind like Brooks

[random timber]

Maybe Dragon's intervention saved Sabo. So my theory is some unknown intervention helps Oden live

Im just throwing out wild ideas but maybe something that ties with momosuke or even kaido or another dragon...lol

[supple plover]

I think it has to do something with Tokis devil fruit.. Dont think she just randomly said "20 years in the future". There has to be more to her devil fruit or powers than we know

But time travel is always difficult und hard to follow

[random timber]

Im just curious what that smoke/wind is when oden is revealed

[supple plover]

it kinda looks like the smoke from Onimarus transformation

But could be some "normal design", Oda used it several times be4 i think

[random timber]

Maybe it ia nothing but just makes me think of the word "second wind" another chance...

[zinc iris]

Sometimes I feel like everything would be better without Oden that has almost become a narrative black hole

[random timber]

Anyone else have any other thoughts on Oden+Sabo similarities?

[supple plover]

Never thought of Sabo/Oden relations..

[cyan berry]

!patterns

[lone hedge]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/486983010025996299/728691851556552744/unknown.png

[supple plover]

I think it would be awesome to have Oden back!

[random timber]

Check out ch 585 and 966

[cyan berry]

bringing back Oden would cheapen everything all the way back to Thriller Bark

[supple plover]

He would be a rival for Mihawk

[worldly anvil]

jaysus people are so dramatic about the chances of oden being alive lol

[pure raven]

I thinkn we're all feeling like this because the break week has given everybody time to shitpost their hearts out. Somebody reading this on a marathon/binge will probably only have 20 minutes of "oh wow there's no way he's back" followed by "oh wow it was x after all."

[cyan berry]

do you have any actual arguments or will you just keep going "wow people are so against oden coming back, what a bunch of idiots" without explaining anything?

[worldly anvil]

it's just a story lad

[cyan berry]

people dont want him back for a reason, and its not because they don't like him. Oden had one of the strongest backstories and deaths in the series, so just having all that mean absolutely nothing in the end would not only feel cheap, but it would genuinely ruin everything we've learned about him since Punk Hazard up to now

[random timber]

But it's Oda.

[willow idol]

do you have any in universe reasons for oden being alive?, its allways dumb meta bullshit "haha guys oda dosent kil xddddddd"

[cyan berry]

WHY DOES EVERYONE KEEP SAYING THIS
"It's ODA!!!!!!" is not a reason to pretend your garbage theory is now somehow more plausible

[random timber]

Meaning we never know what will happen and what will not.

[thick sky]

Oda wouldn't revive a person who is the main backbone of the story. Pell and Pound doesn't sound

[worldly anvil]

you means pell and pound don't count

[thick sky]

And abt sabo, he was hinted to be alive. Reread the chapter if you didn't get that

[lilac mirage]

they were side characters

[worldly anvil]

not sound lol

[cyan berry]

While Pell and Pound's cases are stupid, neither of them carry even remotely the same importance as Oden did

[supple plover]

But on the other hand, what would be the reason to bring back Oden for one chapter just to reveal it´s NOT Oden shortly after?

[marsh warren]

Sabo surviving was pretty clearly communicated as being a possibility i recall as when Dragon returned to the ship the crew immediately started saying something about providing medical help

[random timber]

Shit dressrosa wasnt even planned to be in depth but Oda decided to make it a full on arc

[cyan berry]

this means absolutely nothing

[worldly anvil]

but my point is that is it really that bad if somehow oden survives?

[marsh warren]

Oden on the other hand took a gunshot point blank to the head and smiled in the pot of boiling oil

[thick sky]

Yeah real bad

[pastel summit]

yes

[worldly anvil]

Jaysus

[supple plover]

i think both is fine

[cyan berry]

it absolutely would be yes

[pastel summit]

is it bad that pell and pound survived? Yes. and they were minor characters. Oden is a major character, with actual importance to the plotline, and his death actually served a purpose. him being alive makes 200 chapters of the manga worthless.

[cyan berry]

even if oda somehow managed to magically make a good reason as to why he survived, it would still be objectively garbage

[random timber]

I'm just going to stick with Sabo connection and wait and see.

[worldly anvil]

hmm

[supple plover]

Wether Oden decides to bring him back or not, the "explanation" of it will probably be mindblowing, since there are many different theories concerning Oden and i think most of the people will be satisfied by the reveal

[cyan berry]

unlikely

[worldly anvil]

there will still be haters lolol who take this too serious lmao

[cyan berry]

if he cannot handle killing characters then why even bother killing them in the first place?

[supple plover]

yeah ofc there will be haters but they will hate no matter what

[marsh warren]

now that being said

[thick sky]

Yeah odens death was crystal clear

[marsh warren]

im not sure i see the point of a fake-out, feels cheap to me

[thick sky]

And is a plot point

[cyan berry]

judging a story critically is now being a hater. what the fuck is even the point anymore

"yeah dude how dare you not mindlessly consume the pretty pictures in front of you and actually think about the consequences, what a HATER amirite fellas "

[supple plover]

@cyan berry it´s not! Thats exactly what we are all here for, no?

[pastel summit]

judging a story critically is being too serious just say it's good and circlejerk everything.

[supple plover]

😄

[zinc iris]

Not just that but how every character almost stops in their tracks to tell how awesome oden was
Even leading to Luffy caring about a long deceased person he never met, which like has never happened

[random timber]

For me honestly it doesn't matter whether Oden is alive or dead. But I just think this "Oden" return has some plot development with luffy.

[cyan berry]

luffy doesn't even know half his crew's story, but he actually paid attention to Oden's

[lilac mirage]

these things will be revealed in chapter 1008? or will oda return to the rooftop?

[worldly anvil]

we don't know

[lilac mirage]

any ideas?

[marsh warren]

i dont think Oda will return to the roof-top until all the Strawhat fights are set

[lilac mirage]

like sanji, and franky?

[night jewel]

Oden is like the emotional core of the story thats built up for 300+ chapters, I dont think its an exaggeration to say that it will actually ruin this story, nor is anyone being a hater if they say that...

[cyan berry]

i hope to fucking god he does because my god i will not be able to handle another week of this garbage

[marsh warren]

Franky v Sasaki is a done deal imo

Sanji and Yamato have yet to get match-ups, and the scabbards and 'Oden' should be getting busy too

[worldly anvil]

if they don't show whenever is it real oden or fake, I think everyone will lose their minds waiting another week

[lilac mirage]

brook and robin too ig

[cyan berry]

finally you say something correct

[worldly anvil]

after already waiting 2 weeks

[marsh warren]

Robin and Brook are fighting Black Maria, maybe Brook goes elsewhere but Robin is set for sure

[supple plover]

i wanna see the fight between Marco, King, Queen and Perospero

Could be a really big Banger

[marsh warren]

I expect Sanji to take over for Marco against King or Queen

[random timber]

I will stir chaos once again by throwing out the shadow figure helping is Enerou xD

[lilac mirage]

perospero?

[marsh warren]

Perospero clearly has a bone to pick with Marco, i don't see him not fighting him

[covert hazel]

Sanji fighting Pero would be good, chef vs candy

[lilac mirage]

then marco fights perospero, king fights sanji, and chopper fights queen?

[marsh warren]

oh right i forgot about Chopper, yeah that makes sense to me

[supple plover]

Ohh Sanji vs Pero would be awesome! Revenge for Pedro and i think it would be a somewhat fair matchup. Also it would help Marco to deal with the 3 enemies

[lilac mirage]

chopper punched queen, lol

[marsh warren]

i know, i just forgot while i was typing here

[lilac mirage]

hyogoro got recovered

if not sanji, then he gotta fight ig

[marsh warren]

if Jack doesn't just get rekt by 'Oden' or the scabbards i could see Yamato fight him

[lilac mirage]

noice, that makes sense

[supple plover]

i think jinbei will fight jack

Wasnt there something about Jack being a fishmen?

[lilac mirage]

.

[pure raven]

He’s fighting whos who

[supple plover]

ahh yes, you are right

[pure raven]

Yes he is a fishman

[supple plover]

is it confirmed? 😮

[random timber]

I dont think it was said in writting but he was able to breathe underwater and not drown.

Just his body sank.

[cyan berry]

yes he is a grouper fishman

[pure raven]

Can you please explain why?

Specifically, why (or how) does Oden's return contribute to Luffy's development as a character?

[cyan berry]

it's because he forcibly tells luffy everything he could possibly want to know about raftel causing him to stop being a pirate forever

[random timber]

@pure raven Can't give you exact reasoning. It is just my theory but based on flashback panels Ace-WB luffy-Roger and Oden-Sabo connections were made. Just how Sabo helped Luffy in the tournment, I think this "Oden" will also help Luffy somehow

[lilac mirage]

i dont think that he is that type of a person

[pure raven]

Damn, you were typing for a while so I thought I was gonna be convinced

[random timber]

Im not a creative person

[pure raven]

So it's less character development and just more of 'Oden will help carry the raid to success'

[random timber]

Just a generalization maybe guy

[marsh warren]

regardless, Wano is going to be an ally to Pirate King Luffy in the future

as the plot moves to the endgame

[lilac mirage]

is one piece just a ponegliff?

[random timber]

@pure raven I just started that idea to see if anyone else spotted what I saw and had other thoughts

[lilac mirage]

a wierd thing to ask

[dusty galleon]

Nobody knows

[random timber]

One piece = one peace

[dusty galleon]

But probably not just like a single poneglyph

[lilac mirage]

a bunch of them?

[dusty galleon]

Don't think so, maybe some way to join all the other poneglyph info or something

[lilac mirage]

ohh ohk

[pure raven]

That's fair. My comments weren't a criticism of your idea btw. I was just asking if you could also add a reason for your theory/opinion.

[random timber]

Connect then to get the hippy peace sign

[ancient vault]

Onigashima didnt exist. Read the stuff I've posted before

[fallen tartan]

We don't know what the One Piece is aside from it being something tangible

[ancient vault]

Why Onigashima didnt exist before Kaido inhabitated it
#manga-theories message

[dusty galleon]

Like say a cipher key that when used could help read the info on the other poneglyphs in a particular way that reveals some big secret ( void century history probably ) or smthng like that

[ancient vault]

Kaido came up with the name. The island in itself was empty and just rocks

[dusty galleon]

Like say a cipher key that when used could help read the info on the other poneglyphs in a particular way that reveals some big secret ( void century history probably ) or smthng like that

But ofc all this is just speculation

[ancient vault]

Well whether he came up with it or stole it from Oars who knows

[split ledge]

Some theories said tht onigashima is the god valley..

Kaido lifted it up and bring to wano

[pure raven]

This is cool. I've also been thinking that Rayleigh's suggestion that Robin and the crew may interpret the truth of the world differently to Roger's crew could suggest that the poneglyphs could be pieced together in a different order.

[split ledge]

I don’t think moria will be there in wano buy bb is coming for sure... followed by SWORD

[ancient vault]

Doesnt make sense imo. The Wano citizens wouldve noticed if a random island appeared at the shore
Oden knew the island and im sure he wouldve said sth if that island magically appeared 38 years ago. Especially if Kaido suddenly started inhabitating it

Sigh its gonna be a freaking long post if I actually write that out. Idk if I have the energy for that

[dusty galleon]

Yeah that's what had me thinking along this lines too, it can't be like a poneglyph with an essay on the void century if it needs to be "interpreted"

[ancient vault]

Well Im not sure if its out of hatred against Wano. He doesnt seem the type of person to do that. I rather think this entire "build an empire in wano" plan is part of Rocks plan to take over the World

[night jewel]

they called him "the beast" in his intro

[ancient vault]

I really dont know yet how im gonna tie this to Kaido being born in Ringo tho

[dusty galleon]

Kaido was born in ringo?
When did we get that reveal?

[pastel summit]

yeah. incorrect translation.

[ancient vault]

#manga-theories message
My "theory"

[night jewel]

huh, is it an incorrect translation?

[ancient vault]

is it?

I guess he was called "Oni"?

[pastel summit]

uses the characters for "demon" and "person"

[ancient vault]

And Oni means Devil/demon as well as beast?

[worldly anvil]

Hmm

[pastel summit]

Oars is specifically called a "魔人" or Majin

[ancient vault]

Whats that?

[pastel summit]

this

[dusty galleon]

Seen majin translated to demon or monster in subs

[ancient vault]

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/魔人

Idk how credible this wikipedia post is tho lol

Well it doesnt really matter tbh. Just one of the few similarities I found between the two

[pure raven]

It's also a word that appears in a very famous other series

[ancient vault]

Majin boo

[worldly anvil]

What did it say in the anime then?

[ancient vault]

.

[pastel summit]

yeah. beast definitely has a different connotation than what Oars is actually known as. but like you said, it's 1 small thing.

[violet orchid]

What is your Ryuma theory?

[ancient vault]

• 38 years ago the Rocks Pirates were crushed on God Valley by Roger and Garp leading to the end of the Rocks Pirates.
• 33 years ago all of them started to gather new comrades and gain more fame and power.

@dark palm Do you think Kaido mightve been caught here? Between these 5 years we know nothing about

[pastel summit]

That Ryuma was alive during the void century, and he protected Wano from the 20 kingdoms that made the WG. The WG wasn't able to get through to Wano due to Ryuma and the other samurai.

[ancient vault]

Tamas fruit stayed in wano for 800 years

[pastel summit]

which subsequently led to Wano being the only nation related to the void century that is closed off, and also why they're the only nation that still passes down the knowledge to read the poneglyphs.

[gloomy canyon]

That’s like more than a theory at this point. I think it only really fits for Ryuma to be from the void century

[violet orchid]

Thats good theory and plausible. IMO it's also something to do with the waves surrounding Wano. We've had three expositions about how dangerous and deadly they are to outsiders (Kin'menon, Gyukimaru and Oden).
I think they and the waterfall are artificially made and once upon a time you could just travel to Wano.

[pastel summit]

yeah, could be the case. I never thought that Wano could be an artificially created fortress.

[violet orchid]

Kaido did call it a literal fortress. I wonder if it has deeper implications.

[ancient vault]

He also said "natural" lol

[pastel summit]

yes, but he calls it a natural fortress. not an artificial one. It could be that it was artificially created, and over time people began to think it was natural, but who knows. maybe during the void century there was no water

[ancient vault]

Thats why no pirates existed LMAO

[violet orchid]

Different information contexts, maybe this is proof he doesn't know jack about the void era.

[pastel summit]

and the waterfall is unnatural. could explain the currents.

I don't mean no water in general. I just mean no water at the top of the mountain where wano is.

[ancient vault]

Nah, no water in general is funnier.

[violet orchid]

Hmm, fair enough.

[inland prism]

Someone on reddit theorised that sentomaru be comin to wano

[random timber]

What are your thoughts on the fish fish fruit

[ancient vault]

Speaking of artificial islands, where is the "land of villain" island from Oars

[random timber]

Was kaido a karp then became a dragon and also can he swim?

[inland prism]

Uo Uo no mi : Model Seiryu

Seiryu is a dragon from japanese mythology (kinda like a fish-dragon)

[pastel summit]

no and no.

[ancient vault]

He cant, its just called fish fish fruit to not contradict the ancient models since they are also called "ryu"

Was it ryu? not sure anymore

[inland prism]

seiryu

[pastel summit]

wouldn't contradict anything, it's just called fish fish fruit because oda wanted to do a reference.

[inland prism]

seiryu is dragon/fish from japanese mythology

[ancient vault]

Well if you call it "ryu ryu fruit" thats already the name for the dinosaurs, and ig he also did the reference

[inland prism]

why all people ignore me ;-;

[pastel summit]

dinosaurs in japanese are called "kyouryu", and they use the same character for "dragon" in that "ryu"

seiryu isn't a dragon/fish, it's just a dragon, that represents the cardinal direction of East.

[inland prism]

ohh

but the model is seiryu

[ancient vault]

Noones ignoring u just dropping our opinions here. Seiryu is the name of the model technically its a fish fruit if you wanna be very technical but the model is a dragon. Kaido has never been a fish

[pastel summit]

yes. oda has made multiple references with the fruit name.

[inland prism]

Sentomaru be coming soon guys.

[ancient vault]

The fish fruit name is a reference to the legend of the koi fish

[inland prism]

He has the pretzel thing and uses advanced busoshuko

[ancient vault]

Probably together with VP if he actually comes

[inland prism]

sumo slap or something

I think Kuma is gonna get revived sooner or later (after wano)

[pure raven]

I really enjoyed watching this. Thanks

[hearty forum]

Hey is my theory that Shanks is a Monkey D. and that he is Kong's son and that Kong and Garp are brothers dumb or is it a good one?

And maybe the reason he was able to stop the war is because he is related to Kong who is a high authority

[inland prism]

e

[random timber]

Shanks is too smart

If Luffy ate another hito hito no mi and became "enlightened" maybe

XD

Anybody had a good theory on items having devil fruits?

What if all those zoan items were human turned into items by a paramecia devil fruit o.o

[inland prism]

e

the enlightened?

[weary cliff]

There's a bad translation of an SBS where someone asks what happens if a person eats chopper's hito hito no mi. The bad translation was that they would be enlightened and that has stuck around awhile. I can't remember exactly what Oda actually said..

[zinc iris]

D: WHAT HAPPENS IF A PERSON EATS A HITO HITO NO MI?

O: I suppose I should say they "BECOME HUMAN". Uh, I guess you could say that means like becoming an adult, or finding your true spirit or something. So basically, people will live more human-like. Well. I guess you could say that. Or not. Basically, not. Goodbye. (runs away).

[plush pike]

But could it be possible that Oda here is just avoiding the question because he knows the model of Chopper's devil fruit will be revealed in the future? Or is that no longer possible with the data books? I was always thinking it was a bit weird to have a devil fruit who didn't have a form that actually looked like a human, but rather a yeti. Like, that was the entire reason that people didn't accept Chopper in his flashback, no?

[fringe tide]

Yeti makes sense, we’ve seen other zoans turn completely into whatever they are suppose to be yet choppers always a furry humanoid never completely human even though his fruit is human human

[plush pike]

That's what always bothered me yeah.

Like he couldn't go beyond hybrid form or something.

[weary cliff]

It's a stylistic choice I take it. Oda made the trouble of making a weird reindeer character so he's always going to look weird

[thick sky]

and isn't brain point super intelligent? if it was model yeti or something, this shouldn't be the case, right

[plush pike]

So you're saying brain point is his most human form?

[lyric dust]

its his hybrid

[plush pike]

Because you know, that form still has antlers and hooves.

[zinc iris]

it might be a model, but the base zoan that is that animal does not have a model
that is, the literal cat df is just going to be neko neko
so it can be that his hito hito is "model-less" because it's indeed the regular Homo Sapiens zoan instead of another humanoid creature instead of some future twistm but it's indeed suspicious he never had the ability to fully turn human like other zoan users can fully turn into the animal
then again there always is some form of "resonance", like the full form of lucci or jack still had their recognizable face and hair, so chopper would probably still keep the deer face and the fur in the full human form that is what he looked like when he went big pre-ts

https://i.imgur.com/ppUR6tQ.png

[plush pike]

Yeah, but their unique features may actually be just stylistic choices, because they never seem to be brought up as a reason to not be accepted by whatever you turned into. If Chopper's human human fruit was genuine, he should have at least looked like a human.

[zinc iris]

but really oda dodged the question because the story was never meant the face the "what if a creature eats a zoan of its same species?" scenario

you could make the same question with a leopard eating lucci's df and you'd still have oda trying to bullshit that one

[plush pike]

Probably yeah

[zinc iris]

some things are not going to happen so oda doesn't really need to cover the thing

like all DF technically should be able to have an awakened power, but many of them just won't because it's too hard to imagine a suitable "sidegrade" despite the fact that in-story it theoretically exists

chopper's deal is that he is an animal granted humanlike intelligence and so having a hard time fitting in either society, the DF framework provided a convenient way to do that, but in contemporary one piece he could have been an experiment of vegapunk that escaped from the lab and it wouldn't change his story

which yeah think of Rocket Raccoon but less of a dick

[high condor]

I saw some interesting theories about D name from One Piece Posts site and this is not mine so it didnt say who post it - it just Unknown

"One piece is all about world history especially the Spanish colonization era and as we know it, some of its character’s names were based from notable persons through out the history. “D” is not a surname or middle name of a clan and also all “D” bearers were not literally related to each other. If you read history, you will know how those indigenous tribes call their leaders in a different regions through out south east Asia. Those tribe leaders were the bearer of the “D” clan and this title can be passed down to their next generation. Those are the “Datus” of the different island that the Spaniards(Celestial Dragon) conquered. Datus were the first to resist the Spaniards colonialization which is why they were considered as “God Natural Enemy” since celestial dragon considered themselves as God. So Luffy was a descendants of a Datu or shall say he is “Datu Monkey Luffy”."

[pure raven]

Wow I've seen some Imu French Revolution theories but never Spanish colonisation

[zinc iris]

which french revolution in particular about Imu?

[remote sentinel]

Why especially the Spanish colonization era? Plus I don't really know what that means, like it means something in Spanish history, but there is no world historical period of "the Spanish colonization era"

Also if it's about Spain then why is he suddenly talking about South East Asia tribes? That theory is literally nonsense.

[weary cliff]

What are you talking about? There was a time Spain was an imperial power. They had a presence in the east indies. They would have encountered indigenous tribes.

[pure raven]

I remember seeing a theory somewhere that One Piece is based on the French revolution because 仏国 means France and イム (Imu) looks like the first kanji. There were also some parallels to Louis 16th (last king of France before the French Revolution)

[polar bison]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Empire

[high condor]

And another one - one person believe Monkey D. Dragon have DF which apply to be Fujin power. Reason why he believe it because his power is a wind and it can caused the thunder. Like this Fleet Admiral Sengoku have a power of Buddha and Enel have a power of Raijin. Anyone thought about this?

[pure raven]

Imu = Suijin by extension?

[high condor]

What language is this?

[pure raven]

It's Japanese. Suijin is the god of water in the Shinto religion that originated from Japan.

[amber oar]

Don Quijote is a spanish book

[amber oar]

Now this is a comment ignorant as fuck

At some point there was a saying "in the Spanish Empire the sun never sets", because their domain was so vast no matter the time of the day, somewhere at the territory the sun was up

Spain owned most of the Americas, a bit of Africa, and had territories in the Asian southeast. To date a lot of Filipinos still have Spanish surnames

[languid drift]

alright boys, what your prediction of whats happening next chapter?

we getting the top of onigashima next chapter or....?

[pure raven]

I genuinely had to stop myself from writing exactly that LMAO

[sly mulch]

wasn't the British empire ?

[remote sentinel]

I've only heard it in reference to British empire, but I could see it being both

[polar bison]

snarky links speak for themselves, it’s what I did😌

[pure raven]

'Empires on which the sun never sets' is a common phrase to refer to any empire that's extensive around the globe

[weary cliff]

British, Spanish, Dutch all come to mind. French also had fingers in a lot of pies. Imperialism used to be all the rage in Europe

[versed hamlet]

didnt that cause ww1

[polar bison]

it originated as a term for specifically the spanish empire dude.

[amber oar]

Spanish empire precedes the others. We're talking about 1500s to 1700s

by ww1 spanish empire was long gone and latam were all independent countries

[versed hamlet]

no imperialism was one of the 5 causes of ww1

[weary cliff]

Excessive alliances. An international incident in the Balkans pulled a web of larger nations into the conflict due to alliances

[versed hamlet]

it was militarism, alliances, imperialism, nationalism and an assassination

lowkey i can see some connections/parallels between ww1 (greatwar) and the upcoming final war in one piece

[sacred hawk]

Why do we never have zoan fruits for in-universe animals?

Where's the den-den mushi Zoan?

[pure raven]

#manga-theories message

[zinc iris]

meh I was saying shit about a den den zoan months before that

but the best one would be a mantis shrimp

[weary cliff]

Sharkodile zoan when

[pure raven]

but did you get the shlep like Buck did from the Imu panel?

[zinc iris]

but mary geoisie sounds like bourgeoisie

[pure raven]

I love that

They are literally the bourgeoisie of the One Piece world

[thick sky]

dragon's tattoo

I have read a similar theory on reddit or opfanpage tho.

yeah. would love to hear your take on it

[pure raven]

None of which matches Dragon?

Why did you delete it?

wth

It's interesting food for thought in case somebody else was interested

why delete it?

Yea why did you delete this?

some1 else did.... not me

[zinc iris]

basically I have this Idea where the AK was actually bad, and everyone banded together to destroy to ends its oppression
however then those 20 kingdoms betrayed the others to take over in the AK's place
the betrayed rebels are the allies of joyboy and left the poneglyphs around
btw alabasta was with joyboy but pretended to stay with the wg

[pure raven]

why would they hide that

[zinc iris]

because they backstabbed the other forces that helped them win

[pure raven]

wouldnt it strengthen their power knowing they destroyed an oppresor?

[zinc iris]

only if they won by themselves instead of allying with JB and his allied kingdoms then betraying them last minute

[pure raven]

fair

[zinc iris]

I think it would be out of line for the story if one of the objectives would be to restore the Ancient Kingdom

as it would be going backwards when the history of one piece moves forward instead of repeating itself

[pure raven]

I think there won't be any restoration of the Ancient Kingdom. The crew will just use the knowledge of the past to decide on who their final clash will be with. Then they'll usher in a new era beyond the corrupt rule of the Celestial Dragons. I feel like there'll probably still be a government, maybe a Neo WG at the end.

Luffy as Supreme Emperor

ok

you think that an Iranian Revolutionary and anti-govt dude calling himself a "thunderbird" is too much research to see if its connected to Dragon?

"I am the Thunderbird, not afraid of the storm; a wave, not the one fleeing a roaring sea"

Not at all. It sounds interesting

cause outside of the Native Americans, he was really the only mainstream user of the word

[high condor]

Interesting theory- sound reasonable

By the way, whats the point to have 1007- manga theories when we all talking about further than next chapter theories? Is it really necessary to put 1007?

[pure raven]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horned_Serpent
@pure raven this is what it links to

whats that....there was like 30 names for it

since every North american native language had a word for it... but that is the same thing

Seems like there are many alternate spellings for

I now see where you got it from

"In late 1978 , when the Shah's power waned, as Bakhtiar was a leader in the resistance, he was elected to help form a civilian government in place of the military government,"

idk tho... just thought it seemed similar

[pure raven]

It’s necessary to indicate you can’t base off your theories from the spoilers of the next chapter. We’ve had plenty of people doing that in the past so we decided to start specifying whenever the spoilers are out.

[high condor]

Ah, okay- that’s fair enough if it happened in the past.

[sacred hawk]

Remember when people thought tribal haki was a thing?

[ember matrix]

Wait, what? I wan't to know the context for this 😂

[high condor]

Tell us 😳

[amber oar]

let me guess... morj

ah nvm, it was artur

[high condor]

Really? I read his theories and it quite interesting about his idea. I wanna know who else have theories?

Morj? Never heard of him

[dusky acorn]

If you're looking for OPtubers who have theories.. there's only a couple good ones I know. Basically Randy Troy and Alpha2Late are the only ones I can recall having ones I enjoyed enough personally and could see the ideas happening in the story.
People like Morj and Artur are probably better off for plain analysis

[sacred hawk]

Basically, when some characters used hardening, there was a flame pattern at the border between the hardened and unhardened skin. Like with gear 4. Because of that, some people thought it was a special thing

[ember matrix]

ah thanks! I always just saw it as aesthetics. but I can see where they're coming from esp since we didn't know too much about haki when the flame like stuff started being shown (g4 reveal i think?)

[pure raven]

i think big mom dies in the next chapter

[signal nymph]

id ont htink she'll die but within the next 4-5 chapters atleast one of them is defeated imo

[pure raven]

nah

Morj headcannon is cannon...raid failing

[signal nymph]

but i think the way oda should go about showing the fights is each one gets defeated one by one like how it was in alabasta

[pure raven]

like

BM gets beaten within 5 chapters...then Kaido gets pissed and goes aBSOLUtely ham

you think there is a possibility that Kaido turns on BM like Croc did on Robin?

[pastel summit]

there will be no set-up for downstairs. it won't matter.

[signal nymph]

i would have thought kaido would have been beaten first because he was already injured

[pure raven]

nah

[signal nymph]

but i dont think that'll happen

[pure raven]

hes the main antagonist of Wano...he's going down last....unless BM doesnt go down at all and flees

[remote sentinel]

I think the current group on the roof beating Big Mom and Kaido together, especially when Luffy is already spent, is still too big of a jump in power at once. But it looks like the scabbards might be coming back (I don't trust Oden is back) so maybe that factors in? It still has to be Luffy that beats Kaido though, and there's no reason the scabbards would pick to fight Big Mom over Kaido.

Maybe if one of the other members of Big Mom's crew that we haven't seen in a while suddenly gets in touch to say "Hey! We found Kaido's poneglyph!" I could see her peacing out

[formal gyro]

I have the theory that Imu is a long lost relative to Luffy probably dating back to the void century ex. Monkey D. Im

[kind gate]

How hard was this concussion

[formal gyro]

its not a super deep and philosophical theory I just feel that it will have the "Monkey" family in every layer of the story.

[errant oxide]

What’s up with the straw hat

[high condor]

That... Is... What I want to know!!!!!! Not enough information so I gonna wait until they give us a tiny useful information

[ancient vault]

MarcoTheTheorist or sth lile that hes called

[acoustic helm]

Shambles

[pure raven]

The only parallel is that Marie Geoise is based on the French castle of Chamborde, that's why im in the name has the Kanji which indicates France. It is simply Oda who is obsessed with France, she also created Sanji starting from French cuisine for example, she is an Oda obsession

[echo ingot]

Is there any other medical device with a cool name like radio knife or gamma knife? I'm trying to figure out a possible name for Law's new attack 😄

[dark palm]

How about “harmonic scalpel”

Ultrasonic waves

[echo ingot]

I've never heard of harmonic scalpel, huh. Interesting.

Saw, blades and scissors are also used in surgery, I don't know the actual names of these instruments tho

[pure raven]

Did what i think happen just happen?

[echo ingot]

Yeah spoilers happened 😄

[ancient vault]

whos napoleon?

[weary cliff]

That's big mom's hat

[high condor]

Hey, what if I say Stank is Imu’s right hand? Cos people who knew about him to say “it is you” to make me thinking why 5 elders grandmaster actually let him in since they said because it is you- it got me puzzle to thinking what if Imu’s right hand? I doubt I could be right 😅

[zinc iris]

Blackbeard

[magic current]

🧋

[night jewel]

@magic current go to #bots

[cyan berry]

please read the channel topic here, keep this channel theories exclusively.

[peak ingot]

yo guys

i have a theory, in fishman island after the sea kings save the island from the noah they mention the "that family". They were talking bout a family that can repair the Noah. What if that family is the Kouzuki clan. What if after wano we have to return to fishman island (maybe the big mom pirates will go there)

[zinc iris]

on the latter part, the SHs have so many allies that are able to do that on their behalf letting the crew just push forward

[peak ingot]

im really thinking law would join the crew, after the crew reunited they went to fishman island and punk hazard were oda purposely made them meet and interact with their future comrades. Then in WCI Jinbe joined and in Wano Law would.

[zinc iris]

it kinda goes agains law's role to become luffy's subordinate

[pure raven]

would not make sense

[zinc iris]

all the supernovas cover the "hero of another story" idea where they have an equal standing with luffy

[pure raven]

though

honestly...if you believe that bs crew theory, he could fit the Usopp/Franky category of "Leader of another crew" but thats a bad reason

[jagged moon]

i just thought of this
this isnt sn actual tool
my made up attack names are
maybe beta knife (blue)
then alpha knife (red)

[peak ingot]

ik but the way hes been put narratively for so long in the story makes me wonder why

[zinc iris]

they are different because they were meant to then leave their group since day one
the supernova were created during the sabaody arc to add characters and are explicitly meant to be people with their similar adventure

[ancient vault]

Because hes a D. lol

[peak ingot]

if he think bout it entirely, law had the alliance to take down kaido, assuming they do take down kaido luffy will be the emperor and then what for law? from recent chapters he wants to figure out stuff from the poneglyphs and the will of D

[zinc iris]

that then become the new "ruling" generation

[zinc iris]

when they win there won't be an emperor "seat"

[peak ingot]

they were created on a whim by oda to make the story interesting and he stated he's surprised by their reveal

[zinc iris]

the emperors don't just steal the slot from each other

they make an empire on their own until they are recognized as such, and it just happened there were 4 people reaching such geopolitical power in the current time

[peak ingot]

luffy is already considered the 5th

[zinc iris]

6 years ago shanks wasn't an emperor and it wasn't like there was someone before him occupying that fourth seat, simply there were 3 emperors before that

and 20 years ago emperors weren't even a thing as it was the age of roger

if anything considering the status of flux of the world history that ever moves forward, it can just be that with the fall of kaido and big mom there is just going to be the end of the "yonko system"

[ancient vault]

In before a 4th yonko pre shanks reveal

[zinc iris]

please no

[ancient vault]

Orochi stole this right?

[peak ingot]

well if kaido falls and i doubt big mom will fall but if she does it will not end the yonko system. Blackbeard and shanks are their and if luffy is recognised as one it will stay the same

[zinc iris]

bb is one that attained the status less than a year ago and shanks just six

with whitebeard already dead, the fall of kaido and big mom will spell the end of their generation

[peak ingot]

i only thing that wont let law join is his crew

[torpid mist]

Big mom will eat Kaido

[zinc iris]

and the new one are like 12 people that will have to split the sea

[peak ingot]

sushi time

[zinc iris]

not 4 consolidate superpowers

[peak ingot]

12?

[torpid mist]

I had a wierd theory that big mom was the first pacifista prototype. I have absolutely no evidence

[zinc iris]

worst generation, shanks

and other people

the power vacuum of half the current empires crashing down at once will turn the world upside down

[pure raven]

her backstory wouldnt make sense

[zinc iris]

the fallout of WB's fall was already a significan upheaval that reulted in the rise of new power players

two yonko out of four would be the end of this era and the start of a new one much like when roger died

[torpid mist]

Fake memories implanted by cp0 is my best guess

Prolly wrong though

[queen arrow]

there are too many importants details in her backstory for it to be fabricated, like Oimo and Kashi being worried about Dorry and Brogy, Hajrudin as a young giant, the giants having problems with Big Mom, Big Mom meeting with Streussen for the first time

heck, there's things on her backstory that Big Mom doesn't know about and only we learned about by reading it, like Mother Carmel selling kids

[polar bison]

I think there’s merit to the idea that Big Mom is maybe one of the original human weapon experiments

but she wouldn’t be a pacifista prototype because as far as we know, she precedes Vegapunk

it’d have to be something else, and since we know so little abt the OP world around when BM was born it’s really hard to say

[queen arrow]

there's also the fact that she's stronger than the Pacifistas, and she's not a cyborg

[jade dome]

Do you have idea why shakky dont care about rayleigh shacking up with girls

[grizzled fog]

It’s just an open relationship

[queen arrow]

^

[ancient vault]

Trust

[peak ingot]

wait, if punk hazard the children used to have these rampages if they didnt get candy

[lime python]

Yeah because the candy was drugs

[peak ingot]

makes sense

Im readying through punk hazard and i found a nice interaction between luffy and momo. Luffy tells momo he is a pirate and momo says ur not, pirates are giant men weighting 400kg and r violent lol

[ancient vault]

Yeah there were many hints back then that were basically about Kaido

[pure raven]

or that part where Law says

"i want to take dodwn Kaido" thats a slight hint to him as well

[peak ingot]

biggest hint

[polar bison]

it’s 2021 bro open relationships aren’t that weird

[amber oar]

Someone referred Vegapunk as "an old geezer". Then again, he worked with Judge before joining the WG, which means not longer than 30 years ago

[wooden topaz]

Any clue about the secret doflamingo about people on mariejoa ? Is it a weapon or something ?

[keen portal]

More likely: That they're dealing with Wano and Pirates and amassing weapons in large quantities.

Most stretch: The existence of Im-sama

[wooden topaz]

When akainu went to mariejoa to confront gorosei, he was knew about this ?

[queen arrow]

i don't think that the secret Doflamingo knew is about their deals with Orochi

[keen portal]

No idea. But if Akainu was aware of updated reports from Drake/SWORD, then he would know that Kaido is dealing with the WG with doflamingo as a mediator in between.

[queen arrow]

i'm pretty sure that Doffy's backstory predates that, and Drake just found out about cp-0 in Wano recently so Akainu had no way of knowing about it at the end of Dressrosa

[keen portal]

Wasn't this whole tri operation going on for wayyy longer than Drake's sighting CP0 tho?

[queen arrow]

the secret is something Doflamingo knew since he was a child, so it predates Oden's story

[zinc iris]

the hat in the cold storage

[queen arrow]

the secret is also said to be Mary Geoise's national treasure

so it absolutely isn't their deals with Orochi and Wano

[keen portal]

[wooden topaz]

So thats only tenryubito people knew it ? Or more secret than it ?

[pure canopy]

when does the new chapter i am going to BREAK SOMETHING

[queen arrow]

it's probable that is something that only the celestial dragons knew about yeah

[pure canopy]

wrong thread sorry

[queen arrow]

!choptir

[lone hedge]

There is no set timeframe for when the chapter comes out. You'll be pinged when an acceptable English translation is out.

WHER IZ MUH FREE CHUPTUR REEEEEEEEEEEE (sunday you fucking fool, shut up and wait for your ping) 👺

[pure canopy]

LMAO

[wooden topaz]

Got it.

Wondering why dofla father trigger to left mariejoa ?

[fathom matrix]

I did some research and Hippos, Rhinos and Pigs are somewhat related to horses, and even the word Hippopotamus in greek menas "water-horse".

So would Hippo and Rhino devil fruits be called the "Horse Horse Fruit Model: Rhino/Hippo?"

[weary cliff]

Its certainly possible

[zinc iris]

I think it's the hat because when in chains Doffy taunts the wg saying it's going to rot and then we immediately cut to Imu going to look at the hat in the cold storage

[patent pawn]

i have an intresting theory on the will of d, I think that the will of D rather than being one will it is the will that is passed down from many people For example gol d rogers will goes down to Luffy and Rocks D. Xebec will goes down to black beard. If you rember White beard said something similar. I also believe that there are more than one straw hats.

[ancient vault]

Bruh the secret is nothing about wano or kaido. He saw it as a kid, when he was still living there. Its probably Im (maybe he saw Im sitting on the empty throne)

Or the Strawhat

[pure raven]

who made the bot so disrespectful lmao

[amber oar]

someone was really, really exhausted of people asking the same again and again

honestly, people should have figured out the most common schedules for now.

Like, everyone knows the earliest leaks drop around tuesday, with more images in late thursday/early friday (depending on timezone), the fan translation on friday, and the official translation on sunday

barring the rare official release on friday, it's like this 35+ weeks a year, and people keep coming to ask

[final plover]

WhEn DoeS The NeXt CHapTeR CoMe OuT?

[high condor]

Thank you as I do not know about this - now I know every Sunday for release 😄

[ancient vault]

@sturdy hawk have you looked into beges cover story?

[pure raven]

Wait when does CH 1008 come out?

[ancient vault]

friday, dont talk about it here!!!!

[high condor]

I watched Randy Tory's video about Vive theories and he made some interesting over Vive rejon SH crew or fleet to against WG. he believe she is alive and something to do with her father passed away by assassin to make Vive feel so angry to take against WG

Other person who comment in YT - goldmemberpb
"Another crazy theory that might come to fruition is the fact that both vivi and Kuma were in reverie. So what if Sabo ends his life, gives the fruit to vivi, and then they have the perfect ticket out of marijois with the paw paw fruit. What is also really interesting about that is that there is a big number pattern with the Sh pirates' devil fruits. And the only numbers missing are Ni and Kyu, which is the japanese name for the paw paw fruit. This way, both Sabo and Vivi gets to Wano and if Vivi gets issued a bounty because of Wapol, she can join the Sh crew permanently. I am still in the carrot for nakama camp but it would be amazing if both of them join.

The biggest issue vivi would have had joining the crew at this point is that she would be way way too weak. Carrot and Yamato, as potential Sh members, have new world level strength. But Vivi would be right there if she has the power of the paw paw fruit."

Any though?

[lyric dust]

sounds very "crazy" as the commenter mentioned

[sturdy hawk]

What's the context?

[ancient vault]

I find the marines to be weird. Im looking through it

[sturdy hawk]

Let me check, what did you find weird about them?

[ancient vault]

Obviously this could just be oda throwing random designs out but the design of these marines clearly stands out and is very unique.

She migth be a marine to. The M and the seagull

This guy looks like a frankenstein. Another human modification by VP?

[sturdy hawk]

You know what, could it be that the navy was busy with the warlords and some of them here didn't belong?

[ancient vault]

If theyre seriously just random marines why are they going after Capone Bege who plays in the ranks of law, luffy etc.. The marines send admirals after luffy or law now
These ppl clearly ranked captains/members of some sort but they should be at least VA if theyre gonna go after Capone

[sturdy hawk]

There were navy battleships ofc, but maybe some of the people passed off as marines due to the lack of manpower/influence from them in dressrosa during that time

[ancient vault]

But we know all VA. I feel like this might be another secret squad of the marines

[sturdy hawk]

They might be rookies as well

[ancient vault]

Speaking of strength
Gotti was out after this single kick (ik he got up again a bit later but he was def out cold for a while and they left).
The marine looks unphased, in fact he looks annoyed like hes upset he has to deal with trash like him. Gotti is like the third strongest out of beges crew. I feel like in order to defeat someone like Gotti this fast you have to be at least as strong as his captain, Bege

Them beating up randoms

[sturdy hawk]

Isnt the girl on the book a VA

[ancient vault]

What also stood out to me is that theyre a squad of 6 people

[sturdy hawk]

Thats a good point, so they cant be rookies

[ancient vault]

Maybe even 7, I think im seeing legs

[sturdy hawk]

Is the kanji justice still?

[sturdy hawk]

YeaI see

[ancient vault]

I dont think so at least I dont remember. Maybe youre mixing her up with the cage fruit girl?

[ancient vault]

not sure let me check gaprs coat real quick

[queen arrow]

why would Chiffon be reading a magazine about a marine

[ancient vault]

wdym

youre right matehique thats lola not chiffon lol

They mixed her up

[queen arrow]

it says Chiffon there

[ancient vault]

its lola its revealed later. THats why Gotti marries her

[pure raven]

so like there is a guy named Shapour Bakhtiar, who became a revolutionary/leader of a resistance in Iran in the 80s. The reason im saying this is because he is well defined by his statement "I am a thunderbird. I am not afraid of the storm. " So I thought it'd be a connection to the theory that Dragons fruit was actually the Thunderbird fruit... theory for that here https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/af80rr/theory_monkey_d_dragon_df_thunderbird/ furthermore the word Thunderbird isnt used very often and it is actually only used, outside of Native American legend, 2 major times according to Wikipedia.

[queen arrow]

didn't you talk about this theory already

[pure raven]

ye just finishing it

[queen arrow]

anyway the point is that Lola is just reading a random magazine she got at the salon, i doubt it would be a Marine officer on the cover

[ancient vault]

what thats not my theory

[queen arrow]

it's a response to what Fed asked

[ancient vault]

Oh my bad

[sturdy hawk]

I just said it reminded me of a vice admiral

[ancient vault]

Those two stand out the most. Especially the big one looks a bit like a pacifista if u ask me

[lyric dust]

yeah, he looks like some kind of cyborg or something

[queen arrow]

he has a lot of scars, but nothing about him screams cyborg to me

[sturdy hawk]

Anyway swrml, I have 2 thoughts:
They might be really low priority marine forces which lack experience and education but still strong enough and were only requested due to the focus on warlords
They might be people posing off as rookies considering the attack on dressrosa from the germ pirates

[amber oar]

In a series with such crazy body types and tons of people with scars, I wouldn't jump so quickly on pointing people as experiments or cyborgs

[lyric dust]

hes just built like one

[ancient vault]

the ears and his general appearance just remind me of them

[ancient vault]

yeah but these people def seem special. Even alone in terms of strength

The fact that gotti managed to save Lola makes me thunk theyre sth like Cp0 (like they act similar) where they just gave lola to the marines to do the rest of the job while they go on hunting down bege

[sturdy hawk]

The way the dress is definitely not something the marines, especially sakazuki, would accept imo, so swrml has got a point

[ancient vault]

This looks like a special team too me too

My headcanon is reaching and thinking they might come to wano

[lyric dust]

lmfaoo

[sturdy hawk]

With moria

[ancient vault]

The cap guy is fcking huge wtf

[lyric dust]

is there a website where all of the cover pages are just lined up for you to read

[ancient vault]

i think on the wiki but I just skip chapter to chapter, so i instantly have the coverpage infront of me

[lyric dust]

ah, okay

[sturdy hawk]

Yea, #🔗old-wiki, but its missing bege and SH grand fleet and jinbei

[sturdy hawk]

Thoughts swrml?

[ancient vault]

Oh sorry I didnt see

[high condor]

What does the back coat say?

[ancient vault]

1. Could be but I got an interesting idea which has no real solid basis other than one thing
2. But before I say it are you saying "posing as rookies" because of their outfits?

[sturdy hawk]

Justice

[high condor]

Ah

[sturdy hawk]

2. Yea

[ancient vault]

Why exactly? What are they hiding from?

[sturdy hawk]

The other marines at the coast

[lyric dust]

for what reason again?

[ancient vault]

Are you saying thryre pirates?

[sturdy hawk]

Yea

[ancient vault]

The gem pirates or just some others?

[ancient vault]

the big guy also got a marine tattoo I believe so I doubt it

[sturdy hawk]

To me they look like sleeves rather than a tattoo tbh

[lyric dust]

Also those people took Chiffon to a marine ship with dozens of soldiers there

[ancient vault]

his head I mean

[night jewel]

I dont see the scars...? thats just shading lol

doesnt look very frankenstein-like to me lol

[ancient vault]

just his built lol (yes any character thats built as big as them is a pacifista to me )

[night jewel]

ooh lol, then nvm, thought you called him that because of the "scars"

although as you said, it could just be an oda thing, he likes to go all out even for the designs of random characters

[ancient vault]

If theyre pirates it doesnt go along with my idea.
My idea is basically that these might be part of a special force specifically targeting the Worst Gen members because rn they were specifically going after Capone Bege.
For a second I thought this might be SSG but I think that makes no sense. I think we're gonna get their reveal in a more important panel as well as not even sure if these ppl are modified. That thought doesnt really hold up either as you guys have made several good arguments why not
But if they were specifically after Bege why were they in Dressrosa when Bege just randomly happened to be there?
I think its basically because of Lola:

1. Lola at that time was in Dressrosa
2. These marines seem to know about Chiffons and Beges relationship otherwise they wouldnt ask and arrest Lola (mistaking her for Chiffon)
3. So they tried to get Bege by blackmailing him with Chiffon (actually Lola)
4. Theyre an entire squad meaning they might be a trained team for this stuff

[sturdy hawk]

Hmmm... it makes sense but I think there are a couple of logistical issues, like why are they focusing on the worst gen rn while warlords are being chased and stuff like that, but I do think they are another group of marine forces

[ancient vault]

The ears are weird too. Assuming those are ears and not some weird modification. Doesnt look like headphones to me

[ancient vault]

Speaking of warlords. Now that you have mentioned it several times the cap guy wears the same coat as doflamingo right?
And the big guy looks a bit pacifista/kuma like (the built and the "ears")

But we've seen other mariens with a coat like that I think

[sturdy hawk]

Yea the fact the coat looks like doflamingo's made me think of Kin'emon pretending to be him, that's why I talked about pirates disguising as marines

[ancient vault]

Since those are 7 people this would also mirror the seven shichibukai

But this doesnt look like boa to me in anyway :/

[dusky acorn]

Tbh their strength doesn't seem too out of the ordinary for marines dispatched in the New World.. I'd liken this type of thing to Maynard easily disposing of Gambia offscreen, who is Barto's presumed strongest man

[ancient vault]

But one kick. Thats sth only the captain or above should be able to do. Gotti is the third strongest out of Beges crew and bege is clearly above the new world marine unless its a VA or above imo

This fight also doesnt look like it was a prolonged one. The cap guy got annoyed/pissed and just kicked him and Gotti was out for a while it seems

[dusky acorn]

I'd still say equating Bege's strength as a baseline for generally disposing of Gotti that easily is a bit of a stretch. I think lots of marines even below vice admiral rank would be able to brush Gotti aside that easily.
Maybe I'm downplaying him but like, I think marines are just generally this strong in the NW, not to mention plenty of ones who weren't even named had good haki to help fend the Birdcage

Anyways on another note, I don't mean to hype it up too much.. but this Kid theory is taking forever to write

[ancient vault]

Ig I can agree on this not being definite and it could one or the other
Summed up why I think these marines are special to casual marines:

• Their unique outstanding designs
• Theyre going after Bege right after he reveals himself but they actually kidnap Chiffon (actually Lola) without making any effort of looking for him again
• The fact that theyre running around as a team of 7 all with unique designs (from the ones we can see clearly). They remind me heavily of CP
• Theyre beating up randoms that kind of look like civilians
• Why is Lola in a cage outside and not on the marines ship? Was it supposed to be a trap? I dont think normal marines do stuff like this.
  If it was a trap why was Gotti able to free her after he just got defeated so easily.
  Did they let him go or weren't they even at the scene to begin with and just gave over Lola?

I dont know how to connect the dots here tho.

[ancient vault]

another kid theory

I've been to lazy to write out my Kaido one because its more than twice as long as the wapol and rocks one
I've posted parts of it yesterday tho

[sly mulch]

You guys should check out this theory from 4 years ago
https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/5omd9q/is_momonosuke_older_than_we_think/

Nobody thought of time traveling

[fathom matrix]

physically, no, but chronologically, yes?

[amber oar]

The first hint was when he mentioned sailing at Roger's ship, and Usopp quickly called him a liar

it was never mentioned again until the reveal of the time travel

Though the poster is off in pointing his pervertedness as proof of him being older. As you said, he's not older, just was born earlier. The poster didn't seem to account for timetravel

still, interesting that they observed those details. Actually, I hadn't thought about his reaction to Neko and Inu fighting... sure, in the main timeline it seems they had been resenting each other for ages, but Momo remembered them as friends

[pure raven]

That's because with how the one piece community is, time travel wasn't something anyone would have considered would happen in one piece

... that was until chapter 920 of course

[ancient vault]

https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/mc1i9a/manga_spoilers_tenguyama_hitetsus_secret/

Cool thought but I think the Hitetsu = Sukiyaki theory is better

Though I wodner if those 5 samurais were the daimyos. Yasuei already was one but the other 4?

[high condor]

Is that a spoiler? Should we hold until release?

[dark palm]

major stretch

[dark palm]

it's just a theory

this is the biggest of the stretches

[raven trellis]

Anyone else thinks Zoro has coc??

[visual merlin]

Some people think he does

[raven trellis]

What do you think? And why?

[visual merlin]

I don't think he does, because despite being a main character and having lots of time to show it, he's still yet to get a statement that he has it or use it. I don't think there'd be any reason for Oda to drag out a reveal like that for so long

[high condor]

What’s coc?

[visual merlin]

color of conquerors, so conquerors haki

[high condor]

Oh, thanks

[raven trellis]

But do you remember Luffy used his coc in Fishman Island, Zoro didn’t act surprised at all, he literally said: “That’s what I expect from a guy who calls himself MY captain!” He emphasizes the ‘MY’ like he wanted to say that Zoro himself is also capable of coc.

@visual merlin

[dark palm]

I didn't take it like that at all

he was more just saying "my captain better be strong enough to do something like this, because I'm strong too"

[visual merlin]

I think the my just means my lol. I don't think he'd care about any other captain, he just thinks his captain should have the qualities/have that power. As for being surprised, sanji expected it as well

[dusky acorn]

If Zoro knowingly has it then he should have used it back there as well to help out. Not only that, but there's plenty of situations that have called for Conqeurors from him and it's never used.

Screen-time is one point, and I'd also say age is a decent hindrance for Zoro's case too. He's currently 21. and most Conqeuror users we've fleshed out already had their Conquerors unlocked when they were a fair bit younger than Zoro. Ace and Doffy namely, and of course Luffy when he was only 17.

Along with Kid who's also fairly young and who knows how long he's had it awakened

[still lodge]

How old is kidd?

[dusky acorn]

23

[raven trellis]

When do you think Zoro should have used it?

[dusky acorn]

Well for starters, Zoro should have used it back at fish-man island instead of going through mobs with his regular swordsmanship as I've pointed out.
Along with that, it would have been good if he tried to use it to save Yasuie's life from the shooters along with his moment of rage in 997

[visual merlin]

You didn't ask me but I'll add this anyway, even besides the times zoro should have used it, I'd figure if Oda made it so he had CoC, he'd give him a moment in the last like 400 chapters to at least use it once. Which in a way brings me back to me seeing no reason for why he'd hide this for so long

[zinc iris]

I think that even if he's going to unlock it afterwards, there is still a point to address
what is the point/purpose of Zoro having CoC?

[waxen light]

So that Zorotards can cream their jeans.

[zinc iris]

well I wasn't going for such unflattering terms, but ofter I indeed have the impression that most of the argument/desire for it boils down to

because zoro is cool so he should get into the exclusive club and keeping him out would be a slight to his awesome character

[raven trellis]

Why should he have used it back in fishman island? Luffy already did it, so I don’t see any meaning to it if Zoro would do the same thing. Maybe Oda has a better moment planned to introduce Zoro his coc, we have no reason to already incline that he would never be able to use it. Maybe we’ll see a flashback of Zoro enabling his coc during his training with the baboons of Mihawk. The logic that Zoro has no coc is the same logic as saying Usopp didn’t had an advanced form of observation haki before dressrosa. Or Luffy didn’t had the advanced form of observation haki before whole cake island. Or he didn’t had the advanced armarment haki before Wano. Oda decided that these moments where most fitted for them to upgrade their powers. For example, when Usopp saved dressrosa thanks to his powerupgrade, that was the perfect moment Oda had planned for him to evolve.

Age isn’t a hindrance for Zoro. You came up with examples of coc users from what their young age was already confirmed. But we don’t even know the ages of Chinjao, Boa Hancock, Rayleigh, Shanks, Sengoku, Katakuri, Oden, Kidd, Kaido when they have unlocked their coc. Maybe one of these character had unlocked their coc at an older age. So your argument is invalid.

[zinc iris]

yeah whatever, the technical aspect of it happening isn't that interesting

insofar what does this gives in terms of character

it isn't even really a power up considering that any worthy opponent would be unaffected

[polar bison]

yeah at what point does the lack of evidence not paint a clear enough picture. if Zoro had CoC, there’d be a real argument for it by now, 1000 chapters in.

[raven trellis]

It doesn’t need to be interesting to make it happen, just the same as sengoku has coc for example

[zinc iris]

I mean it's the inane part of the discussion, because on a purely logical level there is no hard proof either way so it technically can happen as oda isn't really constrained and this discussion just goes in circles
and is more interesting discussing why should it happen at all, the appropriatedness of such event

[dusky acorn]

Why should he have used it back in fishman island? Luffy already did it, so I don’t see any meaning to it if Zoro would do the same thing.
Oh, don't get me wrong, I totally agree with you here! Except.. I think this in a general sense on the WHOLE, for the raminder of the story. Why should Zoro ever have it if Luffy can already use it? Wouldn't it always be redundant then, as long as they're not seperated? There's no need to take away from his unique swordsmanship that can already cover huge arrays of foes by itself.

Age isn’t a hindrance for Zoro. You came up with examples of coc users from what their young age was already confirmed. But we don’t even know the ages of Chinjao, Boa Hancock, Rayleigh, Shanks, Sengoku, Katakuri, Oden, Kidd, Kaido when they have unlocked their coc. Maybe one of these character had unlocked their coc at an older age. So your argument is invalid.

Yes, I did only base my opinion on the characters we've seen from young age, because all the other characters you've listed here are ones we've barely, if not never even gotten their on-screen stories as kids, which is why they aren't worth factoring into the argument if they're complete unknowns.
I was merely arguing on the basis of well fleshed out characters who've actually had their full backstories as children shown for, and most of which as I said, had a good track record of showcasing it already prior in their lives, before they've reached the age Zoro is now, and without having to be put into ungodly scenarios to awaken it which Zoro apparently needs.

[mild kite]

But you couldve made that same argument to why Luffy wouldnt get conqueror's haki due to the fact that hes already 17 and most characters in the story awakened it much earlier in their lives. Dont think Oda is going to let the fact that Zoro is 4 years older than when Luffy awakended CoC stop him from giving it to Zoro.

[zinc iris]

the fact that you can arrange the story to make it happen without major contradictions doesn't really faze me because yeah okay, that it can happen doesn't mean it will really, the technical argument is just open-ended
and the issue I'm completely unconvinced by most argument on why it would be a good thing that should happen, that is the moral argument
because so far the two major arguments I've ever heard about why zoro should have conq just boil down to "he's based so he should have the cool exclusive power even if he has no use for it" or about blindly mimicking Silvers Rayleigh

[mild kite]

Also, Do we know when Kidd awakened CoC Haki? I just assumed it was over the timeskip, where he would be the same age as Zoro right now

[zinc iris]

but maybe I'm doing a too subtle of a point

[dusky acorn]

I actually couldn't have made this same argument for Luffy back when he was 17, because at that point we hadn't yet learned about these even younger characters than him who awakened it

And I mean, the difference between 17 and 21 is still pretty big

One is still maturing the other is already done puberty and qualified as an adult

[mild kite]

We havent learned about that yet, but you get my point.

[zinc iris]

with a little elbow grease you can make it happen
but, like, I have seen working theories on how all of ohara survived, which however I can confidently tell it should not happen even if it can

[mild kite]

Oda: "I want to give Zoro CoC so badly but ugh, it wouldn't make sense. Ive weirdly added an age line between 17 and 21 where getting CoC wouldnt make sense. Oh well, Too bad for Zoro"

[zinc iris]

Oda: "I want to give Zoro CoC so badly
like I stopped there already