manga-theories

[ancient vault]

Mine, the wapol theory is also mine

If its written out on discord its most likely not from reddit or somewhere else but directly from the perdon who postrf it

[olive quail]

Also a person with conqueror's haki becoming a subordinate to someone else with conqueror's haki is a testament to that leader

And is usually done out of respect, not fear

Rayleigh, Ace, Oden respected the leader and so were subordinates. Kata is the only person who might not fit, but i think in his case it's to protect his siblings and he might still love and respect his mother as insane as she is.

[pure raven]

Rayleigh thought Roger was a wacko but in the good sense. Sometimes it isn't even respect and just intrigue that later turns into respect.

If that’s the case why doesn’t zoro have conq

[olive quail]

Personally i think he might

But he doesnt have to

[bold gull]

is conqueror's haki related to the ability to hear the voice of all things? in this case it would a lot more interesting for the future story

[ancient vault]

Doubt it

[pure raven]

No

[olive quail]

Maybe, but that ability seems even more rare than conquerors

[ancient vault]

Rayleigh couldnt hear the voices in FMI

[pure raven]

That’s only roger and luffy and kind of momo otherwise big mom and kaido wouldn’t need robin or pudding to read the poneglyphs

[olive quail]

Also oden

[ancient vault]

Only Oden and Roger could hear the voices in FMI

[pure raven]

I don’t think oden could read them just inscribe into the poneglyphs

[ancient vault]

No oden could literally resd them

[pure raven]

Really? I thought roger was the one reading them and just telling oden what to write

[ancient vault]

His entire clan id about that single skill. They created the Poneglyphs and theyre the one to be able to reqd it

Roger couldnt resd them. He judt heard a voice in the poneglyphs

[olive quail]

I think they meant is it a rare extension of conqueror's, not necessarily does every user of conqueror's haki have it

[pure raven]

Sukiyaki could also read the poneglyphs. It's something passed down from one Kozuki to the next.

[ancient vault]

I still doibt it banana

[pure raven]

The voice of all things just seems like one of those “universe deciding fate” things

[bold gull]

yes exactly like conqueror's haki 2nd level

[olive quail]

If it had to be haki observation makes more sense tho

[pure raven]

If inanimate objects can eat devil fruits can they also use haki

[olive quail]

Hmmm. Haki is based on will, so unless it ate a human human fruit, no

[pure raven]

But doesn’t them being able to eat devil fruits imply they have some sort of will

They had the will to eat the devil fruit

[olive quail]

Well its a scientific process so i think the ability is applied to them

[mild kite]

Johnny and Yosaku?

[bold gull]

in zou momo was able to hear zunisha (like shirahoshi with the sea monsters in FMI) I don't see them having observation haki. EDIT: my bad shiraoshi didn't and its a different matter

[pure raven]

Swords don’t have dna that I know of so if Vegapunk can put a devil fruit into one then it makes me think that the sword has some kind of soul that is being manipulated by the fruit rather than the fruit altering the users dna.

[mild kite]

THANK YOU

[pure raven]

Also the swords in one piece have wills of their own

[olive quail]

I doubt it but even then they dont have the will to use haki just because they have dna. They cant think

[pure raven]

Enma literally eats haki though

[bold gull]

there other objects using df around. Lasso (a gun) and hitetsu's teapot

[placid jay]

What if you can get multiple devil fruit powers by eating a part of the person that has the other fruit power?

[olive quail]

Can you explain that?

[placid jay]

Like teach got tremor tremor fruit by cannibalism. He ate a part of whitebeard. Ik it sounds disgusting but I just sort of had that thought in mind suddenly

[olive quail]

So are you saying df are localized ina body part? Or eat anywhere and it works?

[placid jay]

Eat anywhere. Or maybe just cunsume any part of the body even blood and it works

It'd be too dark ig

[olive quail]

That could explain how to get a devil fruit from someone. But i think being able to hold two is specific to teach

[bold gull]

this would sound more like an attack on titans thing

[olive quail]

Linlin is implied to have eaten her orphan family

I think oda doesnt mind going that dark

[fringe tide]

I feel like if you eat a df it creates a special gland in your body, teach’s body is “special” cause his body doesnt reject organs/blood. He simply removed the df gland and implanted it into himself but thats just a theory a op theory lol

[tardy granite]

and how could teach give stolen devil fruit powers to others?

[placid jay]

Oh yeah. And maybe that explains where she got her power

[amber oar]

You had to dig that far?

[random yacht]

maybe? implied to have?
I think it's pretty set in stone that linlin ate carmel and got her df that way

since carmel had the soul soul fruit

[mild kite]

They're like his own little red scabbards in a way

[olive quail]

Implied in the sense that it happened offscreen and we were never told but the results speak for tgemselves

The definition of implication

[bold gull]

i hope oda come back to BM flashback and explicitly explain what happened at that tea party

[ancient vault]

Enma sucksin haki and seems to store haki

Swords def seem to have a will of their own at least to some extent

[olive quail]

Also while she almost definitely ate carmel and the others, i can see a situation where her df respawned and linlin ate that too.

[tardy granite]

is the stored haki gonna turn it into a dark sword?

[olive quail]

I think Zoro's turning them all black

[bold gull]

there are theories around about the cp0 being formed by mother caramel orphans

[olive quail]

Not formed but maybe they joined

[tardy granite]

yh

[mild kite]

Which is why I dont think he's getting shisui back. Its already black and Zoro gonna have three supreme grade swords that are all black blades

[olive quail]

For that kitetsu is probably going to go

Kitetsu is too low grade to be supreme. It's not even fine grade like yubashiri

[mild kite]

Yeah. Hes def leaving Wano with nidai.

[olive quail]

Maybe he gives sandai to momo

Now momo has two hitetsu-made blades

[tardy granite]

idk, mabie momo is gonna use oden sword style

[mild kite]

Until sandai kills him the next morning

[olive quail]

Lol good point. Maybe zoro wont give a cursed sword to an 8 year old

[bold gull]

feel like shusui and enma will both remain on wano

[tardy granite]

i think zoro will keep enma...at least

[olive quail]

I cant see enma being made a big deal and zoro practicing with it and then give it back at the end of the arc

I think Enma, Nidai, and Wado are his final three

All great grade with the potential for supreme

[bold gull]

maybe zoro will ask hitetsu to make a new sword and we'll see a new meito being born

[wild turret]

Most likely kitetsu will break since Kaidos skin is very tuff . He will honor zoro with the nidai

[mild kite]

U think he's getting shodai? if hes grabbing cursed swords might as well go all the way

but then shodai is already supreme grade. What grade will it be if he makes it black?

[olive quail]

Nah

I think its nidai and zoro will make it equal to shodai

[tardy granite]

babue in the last battle against the dragons he may get shodai

[wild turret]

Shisiu was the lowest grade 1/50 but when it turned into a black blade it become 1/21

[olive quail]

Zoro should be beyond breaking his swords. According to mihawk even a nick on the blade is shameful for a swordsman. That's part of the reason he was taught to coat his swords

[tardy granite]

yh, i cant imagine a haki sword breaking

but after all kaidou is rlly powerfull...

[queen arrow]

source?

[wild turret]

Luffys armament lvl 1 wasn’t enough to hurt kaido so . Now he can use lvl 2 and do damage

You guys see the flash back with oden? He has lvl 2 armament on his swords

He swords was looking like lightsabers

[olive quail]

I believe that comes from the idea that blackening a sword raises its rank, so a black sword like shusui would have had a lower rank

[grizzled fog]

Don’t think blackening a blade actually raises its rank

It’s unrelated to the quality that the sword grades measure

[acoustic helm]

Luffy learnt lvl3 (made up lvl) armament.
As explained by hyo San
Lvl 1 - normal hardening
Lvl2 - cladding objects with haki
Lvl3- using haki to enter it inside enemy to destroy from within

[queen arrow]

what makes you think that to put it in objects you need level 2?

[acoustic helm]

I heard someone saying that black increases rank within same grade.

[olive quail]

Top righ panel

[grizzled fog]

hmm. Okay

[mild kite]

Do we know that making a sword black guarantees a raise in rank?

[olive quail]

Oda wouldnt have included that panel if it wasnt the case

[acoustic helm]

It's not a power lvl stuff but a skill lvl
First the guy learns to harden his body via haki
Then he learns to clad objects by flowing haki from his body
It's a chronological learning

[random yacht]

I think it's not necessarily connected, but it can be

[mild kite]

Cause I was thinking what if a supreme grade becomes black? There isnt another meito grade

[random yacht]

also a sword's rank is not just based on quality but also on notoriety iirc

[acoustic helm]

The grade doesn't change

[olive quail]

Supreme is likely peak sword.

[junior cape]

Most supreme swords are probably black blades

[olive quail]

Whitebeards aint

[random yacht]

only a third of all known saijo o swords are known black blades

[acoustic helm]

There is difference between rank and grade

[random yacht]

we don't know if shodai kitetsu is a black blade yet

[fringe tide]

So how does coa work on swords/items like if zoro coated a twig with haki would that twig be as hard as one of his sword considering that bot sword and twig are being coated by the same amount. Does the base effect how hard it is

[olive quail]

It might be easier to do with a medium like a sword but its the same idea

[olive quail]

What is it

[plain stirrup]

what are people thinking about oden?

[olive quail]

Probably

[random yacht]

it adds onto it i think
like a sword will become stronger and sharper
a stick will become harder and heavier
I think it's dependent on what the user wants it to be
like if someone wants to cut rock with a stick, I think he could if his haki was strong enough

[acoustic helm]

Grade represent the class of the sword how good it is built.
Rank is the position among the respective grade

[olive quail]

When has rank in the case of your definition ever mattered

[random yacht]

this "rank" thing is purely headcanon there is only meito grades and black and non black blades

[olive quail]

Wado isnt a higher or lower rank than enma

[acoustic helm]

Rank actually hardly mattered until the point zoro considered strong swords as power up
We don't know the ranking of various swords btw.

[random yacht]

yeah it's just weaker, because enma doesn't have as much history and notoriety behind it

[grizzled fog]

I assume y’all use the terms rank and grade interchangeably?

[olive quail]

Yeah

[acoustic helm]

We don't know,
But I won't be surprised if Enma is higher than wado

[acoustic helm]

Not me😂

[fringe tide]

Also why hasnt any crew apply haki to their ships? For those who have members that can use coa slowly apply it to the ship making it a black ship over time, do you think its possible? Im not saying 1 person in the crew but multiple people

[grizzled fog]

Wh

[random yacht]

enma is an o wazamono

[acoustic helm]

That much haki lol

[random yacht]

it's a huge object and I don't think the haki of different people works together well

[olive quail]

But my point is that panel about increasing enmas "rank" according to your definition is meaningless because the "ranking" of swords within a grade has never been brought up. Only the different grades

[bold gull]

i think hitetsu explain this but the grade is doesn't refer to the sword properties but more to the swordsmith who created it and the fame they have in the world

[random yacht]

yeah

[pure raven]

Maybe there's something to this and the soul/haki of the Adam tree is more potent than any other tree's life force. This could be why the Sunny survives so much damage.

[olive quail]

Rank and grade are interchangeable and nothing is the canon suggests otherwise

[random yacht]

what classifies a sword's grade is a mix of notoriety and quality

[bold gull]

of course a bad sword will not achieve any fame so meitos are also good tho

[acoustic helm]

The bigger question is who recorded all these swords and decided on grade and ranking stuff

[pure raven]

Oda

[olive quail]

Some sword nerd

[mild kite]

Enma is the only sword Zoro can use Ryou on right? Or as of chapter 1003, he can now use ryou on all three swords?

[olive quail]

Tashigi's grandparent did it

[random yacht]

I think it's a collection made by several different people and a new one gets added from time to time

[acoustic helm]

In story

[bold gull]

he used ryu in dressrosa with all the others i think

[dusky acorn]

Fun idea, but I don't think other permanent black objects due to haki will ever be a thing besides swords

[mild kite]

Yeah im so confused on this subject. Did he come with ryou after timeskip?

[random yacht]

yeah ichidai sanzen daisen sekai probably uses adv busoshoku

[olive quail]

I think ryou is how wano sees armament haki. For the most part they're samurai so the only application they have for it is to flow into their swords. They called that ryou.

The ability to project haki like rayleigh did is probably that without using a medium

[obtuse gazelle]

What do you guys think that Childish Fantasy as WB called it, that Roger and Luffy both have as a dream ?!

[olive quail]

Throw a massive party.

[dusky acorn]

It could be about wanting to feel like the person with the most freedom, as Mai's pinned theory talks about

The other big theory though is yes, a banquet

[olive quail]

Just sounds like a luffy thing

[obtuse gazelle]

Oden would be aboard if it was a party but he was shocked

[dusky acorn]

Since there's always big parties at the end of arcs, and Luffy even hyped the one after this battle up, it's always been the other big trend for him. Thus, after becoming Pirate King that could be Luffy's other big goal

I'm ffine with either or dream

[bold gull]

it's not clear but in the fight with pica the swords were black and surrounded with some sort of flames. it kinda looks like ryu to me but maybe was just armament

[acoustic helm]

The concept of ryuo is based on the notion that haki flows

[olive quail]

I think the freedom thing has already been mentioned by luffy so there's no point in hiding what he said

[pure raven]

They wanna go to the moon

[obtuse gazelle]

I haven’t read Mai’s theory yet, but a big banquet doesn’t need all that hype and mystery Oda is putting it up to be

[mild kite]

I believe that was only the anime. But ill have to check again.

[dusky acorn]

Lol, I like how you two shot down each others theories with the same point

Well, I think either idea is respectable to have been hidden personally

[weak arrow]

Freedom or party is really the only realistic thing. Nothing else really fits as something like going to the moon would be out of left field

[dusky acorn]

Since both may have been themes throughout the series, so it clearly has to be something that's been established so it doesn't feel out of the blue

[obtuse gazelle]

Yeah i don’t really think we have much to build a theory upon ... and a banquet or freedom seem very common and not end goal material for OP

[versed hamlet]

I mean enel wanted to go to the moon so it has been discussed before but not in the way u r considering it so NVM

[pure raven]

The moon has been established

There was an entire arc about one man's journey to the moon and we still have no idea what the murals on the moon even mean

(Choc posted a theory earlier today that suggested it might involve ancient weapons)

[olive quail]

Well end goal is the real history and defeating the world government and finding the one piece. The party thing is a personal goal for luffy. A reward for everything he went through to get to pk

[pure raven]

Party sits so poorly with me

Parties aren't even childish. They're distinctly adult and usually involve alcohol and other things

[obtuse gazelle]

True but make it a common goal that Roger was aiming to achieve and how those major characters reacted to hearing don’t go hand in hand with throwing a banquet to celebrate Luffy’s or Roger’s achievement

[obtuse gazelle]

Exactly

[olive quail]

The childish aspect is desiring this secret of the world and the possible power gained from it just to throw a party

[weak arrow]

Maybe it was they wanted to have a party with the marines. Roger with his BFF Garp and Luffy with his dad, but at the time, sabo ace and Luffy were all aiming to be pirates so ofc it would seem silly.

Oops grandad

[bold gull]

a party on the moon would be pretty dope

[olive quail]

My issue with the moon isnt the possibility of it, Oda made it very clear it is possible, but the fact that luffy has never shown or was hinted to show interest to go to the moon, at least to the point that he planned it out since childhood.

[obtuse gazelle]

That’s still not childish nor funny enough to laugh at, it’s a nice and feasible thing to do which goes against everyone’s reaction

[pure raven]

How do I censor words I want to ask a question about something brought up in reverie

[weak arrow]

It’s not a feasible thing to party with your enemy

[pure raven]

It's not a childish thing though

[weak arrow]

You don’t need to censor anything @pure raven everything from 1007 is allowed

[olive quail]

This is up to 1008 no reason to censor

[pure raven]

ok cool

[olive quail]

I mean 1007 lol

[pure raven]

What was the strange topic that was brought up that Mihawk referenced?

[weak arrow]

The removal of the warlord system

[pure raven]

Oh okay

Thank you

[olive quail]

You guys think Buggy's gonna be an emperor

[pure raven]

Doubt it but this is one piece we're talking about. Anything is possible

[olive quail]

If that system doesnt fall apart

[pure raven]

The emperor status quo will probably dissolve by that point

[weak arrow]

Wanting to party with your enemies can definitely be seen as childish.

[pure raven]

I definitely think Coby is gonna be an Admiral

[obtuse gazelle]

I think Buggy and Shanks have more to their relationship than the story gives off

[olive quail]

How so. From my understanding it's brotherly and they care for each other even though buggy doesnt shownit

[obtuse gazelle]

I mean they share some type of history together or how their destiny made them both end up with Roger

Especially how Roger mentioned it’s been a long time since they were around kids ... and so far it seems buggy and Shanks both joined as kids

[olive quail]

Ive seen theories about them being celestial dragon babies at god valley but shanks mentioned a hometown in the west blue

[obtuse gazelle]

Maybe not CD babies ... or maybe Shanks doesn’t want to admit to him being a CD descendant

[olive quail]

I guess but at that point oda didnt need to include that throwaway line when shanks was talking to whitebeard

[fringe tide]

what roger and luffy both said i think is sorta like in zatch bell and it is “i want to be a benevolent pirate king” what shocked people is the idea of a pirate being benevolent.

[weak arrow]

I do think there’s a good chance Shanks is a celestial dragon descendant.

[olive quail]

Luffy doesnt care about being a benevolent persob

He's just himself. And he is a benevolent person without wanting to be

[weak arrow]

Roger/Garp’s xonversation about children not having the sins of their father comes from Roger raising a celestial dragon’s kid and then Garp had a hatred for Luffy following after Shanks as his role model not just because he was a pirate, but because Garp knew he was a celestial dragon descendant.

[obtuse gazelle]

Actually he needed to throw away everyone at that point to keep the mystery unraveled yet. The way Whitebeard spoke of the West Blue sake made it seem like there’s more to it

[obtuse gazelle]

Very interesting

[olive quail]

Garp wouldnt judge shanks because he was descended from a cd. He would judge him for being a pirate

[weak arrow]

It could also just apply to him or Buggy being Xebec’s descendant as well, not necessarily a celestial dragon.

But along with his audience to the gorosei, having celestial dragon blood is probably more likely.

[obtuse gazelle]

Garp has expressed his deep hatred for Celestial Dragons, he can actually despise Shanks because he is their descendant. And also he might be aware of the treatment Shanks gets even though he’s a pirate, among the Gorosei and the World Government

[olive quail]

Lmao when i hopped on this discord earlier it was on the tail end of a "who buggy and shanks really are" discussion. Now i just saw it loop back lol.

[obtuse gazelle]

I just came to check this channel, I wasn’t aware of the early discussions

[weak arrow]

I’d rather buggy be a descendant of captain John and we see his treasure is him with a picture of buggy 😢

[random yacht]

shanks must have cut ties with the WG though, since he has an extremely high bounty

[fringe tide]

did buggy ever use that arm band thing luffy gave him in impel down to look for treasure?

[random yacht]

probably

most likely how he got the funds for his organisation

[weak arrow]

Even as a pirate with a bounty and ex-celestial dragon, Doflamingo still ended up having major ties to the gorosei.

[obtuse gazelle]

Bounty really doesn’t mean that much, it’s more of a show off to the civilians and population to cover up for the WG authority

[olive quail]

Garp hates cd because theyre scumbags who believe theyre above everyone else. Shanks as someone who wasnt raised as a celestial dragon wouldnt be hated by Garp for this. We had a whole arc with Garp being portrayed as someone who wouldnt judge a child by their parents' actions

[random yacht]

but the WG wanted him dead at all cost, which didn't seem to be the case with Shanks

[weak arrow]

Probably because they can’t kill shanks

[random yacht]

true

[olive quail]

Yeah i assumed its just funny

[fringe tide]

Garp hates shanks cause he ruined his dream of having his adorably stupid grandson join the marines, its not cause shanks is a cd

[random yacht]

yeah

[olive quail]

Exactly.

[obtuse gazelle]

But as far as we know Garp doesn’t “hate” shanks, but rather doesn’t want his grandson to be associated with him because of his links to the CDs and his origins, in order to protect Luffy

[random yacht]

oh no he has stated that he still hates shanks for "corrupting" luffy

[olive quail]

Either way if its about him being a cd garp wouldnt judge him that way

[obtuse gazelle]

Same way Garp doesn’t wanna be promoted to avoid serving the CDs directly

[random yacht]

well maybe not hate but still dislike

[random yacht]

yeah but he hates the cds for being absolute scumbags who see themselves as gods and we've seen he doesn't judge people for their parents' sins so he wouldn't hate shanks since he's actually a pretty chill guy

[olive quail]

But the cds are known assholes. They believe themselves to be gods which garp disagrees with.

[olive quail]

Well shanks is still a pirate so hes going down in garps book but yeah it has nothing to do with heritage

[random yacht]

yeah I meant not hate him because of that

[obtuse gazelle]

True, which is why he wanted to cut any ties that would link him or his grandson to the CDs, hence why he doesn’t like Shanks to be associated to Luffy

[random yacht]

he doesn't like the guy because he made his grandson become a pirate

[random yacht]

I think it's more that he didn't want his grandson be associated with a huge pirate

[olive quail]

Fr. Garp made it clear he doesnt want luffy to be a pirate. Luffy became a pirate because shanks inspired him. Garp sees this and hates shanks

[obtuse gazelle]

The guy is associated with the Pirate King as his equal in taking down Xebec, you think he would just dislike Shanks because of his piracy status ?!

[olive quail]

what does his power have to do with this

[random yacht]

nobody knows about the roger thing

[olive quail]

Shanks made his grandson a pirate

He doesnt like that

[obtuse gazelle]

Not power, but he’s known as the Hero of the marines or whatever because he took down Xebec alongside a great pirate

[olive quail]

So what. He wasnt proud of thar

[random yacht]

he respects roger, but he's an exception in his mind
also he wanted his son to become a marine so bad because of dragon and then shanks ruined that so that's why he hates him

[olive quail]

He still dislikes pirates. He still thinks theyre criminals

[random yacht]

yeah

[olive quail]

He still believed roger was in the wrong even if he liked him

[random yacht]

he just follows his own moral compass, similarly to fujitora

[olive quail]

His son is already a criminal. Garp was trying to help luffy become a marine. Shanks showed up. Now his grandson is a criminal. You think that wont piss him off

[random yacht]

yeah

[olive quail]

He literally wished that Ace and Luffy just became marines so that it didnt have to come to what happened in marineford. Imagine watching your grandsons suffer because they became criminals, and then the guy who inspired one of them to become a criminal shows up. Youre going to be pissed

[fringe tide]

I wonder how roger and garp became “friends” like one day battling it out and rogers like “oi garp it looks like another draw want to sit around and eat some crackers with tea for a bit?” And then after that rogers like yup this is the guy who will raise my son

[olive quail]

Maybe they were childhood friends

[random yacht]

I think it's more of a thing where they fought and interacted so much they gained immense mutual respect and in a weird way also trust

it's probably also like a "If they weren't on different sides they would've been close friends"

[olive quail]

If they werent friends since childhood they could have just known each other since early in their respective careers

[random yacht]

probably that yeah

[olive quail]

They both started in the east blue

[random yacht]

like roger was the first pirate garp fought and since then they've been rivals and grew kind of close

[olive quail]

I can imagine garp on his first mission as a marine and he comes across a pirate on his first voyage

That pirate being roger, who nearly gets caught but manages to escape

[fringe tide]

Also do you guys think sengoku knew ace was rogers son before ace was captured or do you think garp just casually dropped that bomb on him when ace was captured and sent to impel down?

[random yacht]

that's kind of out in the open ngl we have no evidence for either side

[dusky acorn]

I believe Sengoku heavily implied they learned Ace was Roger's son sometime during his time as a pirate

But said they couldn't capture him since he was hiding under Whitebeard's flag (Ace wasn't 'hiding' on purpose of course, but you know.)

[olive quail]

He may have found out via investigation

[craggy bloom]

why didnt garp get any punishment for hiding ace?

[ember trench]

@dark palm I dig it

Think Onimaru is the one who makes the most sense considering Hiyori was in the north

[dark palm]

yeah, and it'd give Hiyori a way to find the scabbards

I'm pretty shaky on it now though

every single day here has been torturous

[ember trench]

I am glad I was not here for that lol

I thought that as soon as the chapter came out. Boy would suck to be an opcord mod rn

[dark palm]

Kanjuro is the other main theory

and most people seem to agree he'd be doing it from a malicious standpoint

which like... I guess I can see, but I don't want it to happen

[ember trench]

Me neither. Would be weird to me if he did when Kaido is the bigger fish for the Kurozumi faction if it’s still around

[dark palm]

and it'd be pretty redundant with jack

who's already running at them full speed

[ember trench]

That too

[dark palm]

plus like, there's some inconsistencies with how oden looks

no wounds or anything, but incorrect swords?

why would kanjuro bother?

[dusky acorn]

Garp has historically been immune from punishment or "elimination" as Sengoku put it for defying his superiors, because of his past accomplishments and stature. This probably extends to his keeping Ace a secret too

[ember trench]

I wonder how this Oden is going to handle things with the scabbards. Will he say that he was sent to the future by Toki or what?

[dark palm]

honestly think odenmaru might pass him off as some sort of spirit

[ember trench]

Could be

[dark palm]

the only thing I'm shaky on with the onimaru theory is his power

what fruit would it be?

and if not a fruit, why wouldn't he have done it with kawamatsu back then?

[dusky acorn]

This temporary emotional reaction that Kinemon showed in the last panel can only go on for so long. It'll get to a point where they just become full on skeptical about him But yeah I think Juba's theory basically said Oden won't be staying for that long, so their scepticism won't be an issue(hopefully)

[gloomy canyon]

Transform into Gyukimaru when he was attacking Kawa?

[dark palm]

no like, when fending off goons from the graves

why not transform into someone more capable

[ember trench]

Imagine they play it off as a gag immediately

[dark palm]

I don't think oda is that tone deaf to his own story lol

I'd hope so

[gloomy canyon]

That's why if it is Onimaru I want him to make it come across is "Oden's ghost" and not stay here for the rest of the raid

It will cause more trouble than it's worth it's dragged on for too long

[dark palm]

yeah, I highly doubt "oden" is staying no matter what

[dusky acorn]

Onimaru didn't showcase his power even to Kawamatsu in the present, so I don't think that's too big of an issue. Onimaru seems to just be timid of others generally knowing about his power for some reason

[dark palm]

I think that'd be a hard sell shimon

[ember trench]

Also I missed it that week but the Chopper stuff was fckin awesome

[dark palm]

feel like it'd be something oda would have elaborated on

[gloomy canyon]

indeed it was

[dark palm]

hey archer, they turned ;)

I wish I made a bet on that

[ember trench]

Yeah I will take that L

[gloomy canyon]

arch how you feeling about our "Zoro will fight King" bet

[dark palm]

I like the way it happened, wasn't forced or anything

[ember trench]

It’s gonna be Sanji, Evan

[gloomy canyon]

[ember trench]

Yeah I didn’t mind it either

[gloomy canyon]

you mods don't have slow mode

[ember trench]

King will go for Momo and Sanji will be there

And Peros is about to snipe Marco

[gloomy canyon]

I too am thinking Sanji vs King is more likely now which sucks because I had bets that Sanji vs Queen was gonna happen. Honestly don't know who's gonna fight Queen nor is his fight that appealing to me anyway

[ember trench]

Chopper

And Drake

[dusky acorn]

Even when Onimaru was out in public at Ringo in the flashback he was still in his fox form, but maybe he only allows his power to be shown to people he considers his 'master', idk?
Anything I can think of like this is basically considered moot if we're to say Onimaru is currently working with Hiyori and letting his power be known to her though

[gloomy canyon]

But then he could have appeared in front of Kawamatsu in his Gyuki form in the first place. I guess he may have been too injured to transform or something idk

[dark palm]

I just don't know man... I'm struggling with a way internally to determine this

he was protecting the grave of his master and others

why not use the power

maybe he needed like, permission?

[gloomy canyon]

from who?

[dark palm]

a kozuki/master

which would potentially connect it to sukiyaki? idk

[dusky acorn]

Evanbrought up a good point, so now I'm thinking it might be more possible he only unlocked the power after Kawamatsu left? I don't really like this notion either though, since it potentially gravitates more towards being a fruit power he found and not something inherent

There wasn't that long of a timeskip in between Kawa's capture and Onimaru taking up his position anyway

[dark palm]

that's what I was saying initially

[dusky acorn]

The gap in between them switching spots as Gyukimaru couldn't have been a year+ as we know at least

[dark palm]

too many shapeshifting powers

but then again, onimaru's fruit seems too specific

[gloomy canyon]

Yeah, not only would I find it boring if it were a fruit, but having 3 shape shifting fruits is pretty ... convenient?

[dark palm]

don't say that word

[weak arrow]

Brulee can also make clones as well

Yes Juba, I have been summoned

[gloomy canyon]

Quite convenient of you to arrive Adam

[ember trench]

How convenient that you’d say convenient

[dusky acorn]

Yeah I doubt Oda would be that uncreative. Unlike Devon, Onimaru is actually more immediately integral to the current plot than her, so if he really wanted to incorporate some Zoan shapeshifting power, he should have just held off on Devon and given her something else entirely instead, while giving Onimaru a fruit like hers instead.

[dark palm]

alrighty, I've arrived on my conclusion

[dusky acorn]

Basically I think there's a method to what some may be seeing as Oda's madness. Although certain things potentially lead to Onimaru having gotten a fruit, just gotta have faith and believe it's an inherent power that will have a good explanation

[dark palm]

Onimaru, like Zunesha, needs direct instruction from the kozuki branch he's subservient to

and only upon getting said instruction can he transform into what he wants

then, upon completing his task, he transforms back

[weak arrow]

How would he have become the monk then

[dark palm]

Sukiyaki

[gloomy canyon]

But would his task of defending Ushimaru's grave ever be complete?

[ember trench]

Five head

[dark palm]

his task was to collect weapons

that's when he transformed

[dusky acorn]

So it all comes together then! You know, I quite like this idea though, the Kozuki relevance continues

[weak arrow]

But then you have to ask why he was the partner of a kozuki retainer and not the kozuki himself

[dark palm]

gift from sukiyaki to ushimaru

or from an ancestor of the kozukis to the shimotsukis

[weak arrow]

Although I still don’t like the idea cause I prefer momo’s controlling of zunesha to be from his mother’s side, hence why Oden couldn’t

[dark palm]

we don't know if Oden couldn't, right?

it just wasn't relevant while he was there

[weak arrow]

He heard zunesha alongside Roger

[dusky acorn]

Well Onimaru would just have faith that the eternal protection of the graves and Ringo region in general would be a byproduct of the raid he gathered weapons for succeeding. So essentially both of Onimaru's interests coincided, and Ushimaru can rest in piece

[dark palm]

That might not have been a request though

yeah shimon, plus the "task" here would be gathering weapons

not anything else

[weak arrow]

Yeah, but momo said he wanted to have a conversation with zunesha. I imagine Oden would be able to do the same.

[dark palm]

wasn't that after zunesha had reached out?

[weak arrow]

But didn’t because he couldn’t

[dark palm]

let me reread zou

franky smoker

[weak arrow]

Oops

I’ve seen people argue that momo could only talk because zunesha was in danger, but that would mean the whole momo talking with zunesha thing will never bear any fruit, and that’s pretty trash

[dark palm]

I just think Zunesha wasn't bothering to speak to them

[gloomy canyon]

Fucks sake

[dark palm]

Roger would be able to hear it as well

they just felt like something was watching them

[weak arrow]

We never never shown on panel I believe of zunesha speaking to them though, which is what Pedro points out

[gloomy canyon]

Do we need slowmode on atm btw?

[weak arrow]

Yes

[weak arrow]

Pedro appears to be talking about something that may have happened offscreen, as it’s quite a different sensation that what was happening to Luffy in the panel i posted

[dark palm]

ah, nvm

could be something to do with this

[gloomy canyon]

yeah, Momo's ability was definitely portrayed as unique compared to theirs, but whether that's a biproduct of him having Amatsuki blood or just that he was born with that ability but Oden wasn't idk

[dark palm]

but yeah adam, could mean that zunesha is bound to the amatsukis while onimaru is bound to the kozukis

which I assume you don't like, but I think it'd be cool

[gloomy canyon]

feels kinda weird for him to be bound to the Kozuki's but having a Shimotsuki as a master

[dark palm]

like I said, a gift

if anything that would be a very dignified gift

[gloomy canyon]

A gift that Ushimaru would never be able to use to its fullest potential. Dunno if I can believe that honestly

[dark palm]

that's not onimaru's innate value though, it's a sentient fox

that is extremely loyal

[dusky acorn]

Well Sukiyaki probably wouldn't have told Ushimaru that, so I don't think it's something where the poor guy was knowingly 'ripped off'.
A development like this would be a sign of huge trust between the Shogun of back then and Daimyo of Ringo, as I'm assuming that kind of altercation hadn't happened since Onimaru existed (for however many years this fox can live?)

Sukiyaki may have just thought he couldn't do the fox justice as his pet, or didn't have time to spend with it, who knows

[dark palm]

yeah, could have been ancient

[weak arrow]

I'd say my other personal issue with the onimaru theory is do we think Onimaru followed Hiyori to the capitol?

[dark palm]

I think they met somewhere in ringo beforehand

[polar bison]

I think for him this is Frankyberg

[abstract pond]

Guys. I just thought that we could have already seen God's Valley much earlier

https://pm1.narvii.com/6462/311d06b0fb794acc95860e5f12c4b5b5a8dfc788_hq.jpg

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/onepiece-cat/images/8/87/God_Valley.png/revision/latest?cb=20190929193840&path-prefix=ca

The WG hided the isle in the Florian Triangle or made the FT themselves

Just a random thought I had watching old episodes

[grand niche]

Vc anyone

[pure raven]

How do I get a role to be able to post images

[wild veldt]

!pics

[lone hedge]

Get a role (pirate/revo/marine/civilian) in #old-role-info to be able to post pictures!

[pure raven]

Thanks

Just wanted to post this cause I’ve always found these eye designs to seem intentional by oda since they are so much different from the normal eyes he usually draws.

[olive quail]

Maybe. Oda usually will make a character's eyes look that way when they're shocked or afraid. Perhaps this design choice was to give these characters a look of permanent intensity.

[pure raven]

Wel the characters are im, zunesha, Mihawk, and cavendish

I agree with the intensity part about Mihawk

[olive quail]

All of which give a sense of intensity. Cavendish only looks that way when he's hakuba or half hakuba

[pastel summit]

I think the fact that there are a wide example of characters that have this eye type just means it's a type of eye Oda likes to draw.

[pure raven]

Just thought it might to relate to one of the various tribes like long arm or three eye

[olive quail]

Mihawk is know for his piercing eyes

[pastel summit]

wouldn't look so deeply into it.

[olive quail]

Zunisha is ancient and seen a lot. And im is the secret ruler of the world

[pure raven]

maybe it relates to the void century and cavendish and Mihawk are decendants of whatever clan/tribe I’m is also part of

And zunesha could be hypnotized

[grizzled fog]

Characters are drawn with swirly eyes all the time.

[pure raven]

Im and Joyboy are both from the "Void Century" . Both of which were friends as some point in time but after Joyboy discovered the Devil Fruits, and convinced IM to eat one. Im viewed it as a sign of the devil and could never forgive Joyboy for it, labeling him and his family as Devils (D.), after some time Im became more powerful using the Celestial Dragons to gain power by tearing down the Great Kingdom.... by using 3 ancient weapons he also killed Joyboy. The D. initial is a sign of the descendants of Joyboy and the govt and Celestials despise them due to the connection. Luffy was singled out by Im as he must have discovered Luffy was the inheritor of Joyboys will.

[high condor]

That’s very interesting theory. It make me thinking who own the straw hat? I’m guessing it could be Joy Boy in his time?

[pure raven]

possibly

[high condor]

What if I say, Joyboy have om om fruit and he discovered the true power of immortal so he died to hand over to IM?

[pure raven]

Maybe

like he tried to broker a deal with im to save his family..

[light pond]

But poseidon is a mermaid princess that sides with joyboy how could IM uses it to kill joyboy? Also should IM know by know thag shirahoshi is poseidon and where pluton is if he/she uses it before?

Also there is more history between poseidon and joyboy than IM atm from that letter that robin read on FMI

[pure raven]

Oh yea i forgot

[light pond]

I read an idea about a love triangle between joyboy, poseidon and IM but even that could still not solve the mystery of the laughing thing, also Oda does not do love triangles so I bet it is something else

[pure raven]

My theory is that the moon in one piece is cheese

The whole thing is chedder

[light pond]

Lol then how could they mine in there? Also enel is in the moon and it whole thing is rock

[pure raven]

They are mining cheeserite

Its a compressed form of cheese because of gravity compressing it overtime

Enel lives off cheese

[plush pike]

Did you read the headline of this channel bro?

[pure raven]

Cheese moon one piece

I am just putting my theory out there

[dusky acorn]

Uh, no. Let's not post unfunny jokes that blatantly go against the story, people aren't in this channel to crack chuckles.

[light pond]

Only legit theories

[remote sentinel]

My favored theory on the D is the simple and a little silly it's a smile (as in =D ), related to how the Ds die laughing or with a smile (Roger, Saul, almost Luffy)

Goes along with the name Joyboy too, and could be related to "laugh"tale

[little mortar]

Is there any theory for every "pet" on pirate? Why world government give them little bounty, ex Chopper, Bepo.

[loud ibex]

Let’s go new one piece content this week

[craggy bloom]

💯

[dusky acorn]

I mean, a potential deeper reason I can think of for why the World Government might be giving people like Chopper and Bepo lower bounties on purpose so that they can cut back on having to give high bounty rewards to hunters wherever they can, so they purposely dubbed them as "Pets".
But frankly I don't think there will really be a deeper in-story reason that will be explored apart from them wrongingly mistaken as pets.

Also yeah Jon, that's a popular "D" theory, even Swrml talked about it as part of his Rocks theory

[fringe grail]

5th Gear has been a... kinda big topic and I'm gonna post my theory about it here

So you know how 4th gear is a combination of 3rd and 2nd gear and haki to form a behemoth of luffy?

Why not do the exact same thing but with 3rd and 4th gear using both Bone Ballon AND Muscle balloon to give luffy truly his maximum physical strength. Add haki to it and boom. you got a purlely destructive gear with. slightly big consequences.

[gusty needle]

What if Oden from last chapter is orochi? Maybe one of the powers of his fruit. Plus would explain why he could fake knowing them so well. Also, orochi could have just overheard that the scabbards were on their last leg hence he went to the room to finish them himself.

[amber oar]

only if his mythical creature is yet another shapeshifter

which I doubt

[plush pike]

Hey, may as well throw it in there. At this point anything could be true.

But hey, if Onimaru is the most popular theory, might as well be Orochi since they can both transform and have a connection with the Scabbards.

[pastel summit]

the orochi has no myths about being a shapeshifter I'm pretty sure. So it'd literally just be Oda making up powers.

that have no real basis.

https://i.imgur.com/NajH2rQ.png

the research project continues.

[high condor]

Good shout but I can confirmed it is not his power as he already used clone clone user on his side when he was 20 years ago to against Oden. His power of snakes are pretty useless

[plush pike]

Wouldn't say they are useless, there's a possibility it allowed him to survive being beheaded.

[high condor]

Damn, good shout to found it. That’s another reason why it was destroy alongside God Island. In my theory, people who protect the huge metal box to defend the trust of what’s happening in history or create weapons to against the world (WG) to put hidden to ensure no one allowed to know. Just wondering, if the island have been destroy, do you think box will go down as underwater?

[high condor]

Ah, maybe I should reserve until everything to the end

[pastel summit]

well, it wasn't fully destroyed. but they don't use it as a city.

[thick sky]

Any new theories abt oden???

[dusky acorn]

I've been eyeing this channel everyday as always, and no entirely new theory of value about Oden has sprung up in the past few days, apologies Neko.
We're just now at the stage where basically everyone has said everything they wanted to say, or could think of.

[pastel summit]

https://i.imgur.com/rKFEL7X.png

idk why I never picked up on this stuff before.

[high condor]

When was Noland died? I need to work out how it fit to void theories

[pastel summit]

400 yrs ago

so shandora was destroyed 800 yrs ago, i.e. at the end of the void century.

[high condor]

And nobody able to create theory about void century?

Like 100 years gaps

[waxen light]

Any theories you've pieced together regarding any sort of connection between the moon birkans and all the moon related wano bloodlines?

[pastel summit]

Well, I'm trying to look into when Ryuma died. Seems there's nothing on there. I'm wondering if he was a void century boi, and maybe the people he protected Wano from were the early formations of the WG, which allowed Wano to close itself from the world post-ts, and possibly why Wano as a culture, retained the ability to read the poneglyphs. Like, more than just them making the stones.

There's also the fact that Shandora has very similar architecture to Birka (moon city).

so it could definitely be a city based on that.

there's definitely ties. If Ryuma is from the void century, then I think there's definitely a huge thread connecting Wano to Shandora to Birka, which may be the origin point of "the ancient kingdom". Only thing is, Gyukimaru here is saying "world nobles desired to rule it". Does he mean World Nobles in the sense of the celestial dragons we currently know, or is he referring to the nobles of the 20 kingdoms that would make up the WG?

the only thing I'm stuck on, is what the fuck were Skypeians doing, and how do they relate? They seem so separated from all of this. There's a clear connection between Birka and the moon, obviously, as well as Shandora and the moon, in terms of retaining parts of that culture. I just don't know what Skypeians were doing. Even their name is wack. Skypeians is clearly something they called themselves after they migrated to the sky from the moon.

[waxen light]

[ember matrix]

Any chances that king's race (even though it's separate from the 3 sky races) could play a role in these revelations?

[waxen light]

I should re read skypeia, been so long and I've forgotten most of it.

[pastel summit]

I think King may be Birkan. idk.

I haven't even begun to look into king. but I've read theories of minks originating from the moon, based on Enel's cover story. There seemed to be mink-like creatures who harnessed the power of electricity.

[ember matrix]

True, I think the counter to him being birkan that tends to be urouge . But his wings also changed shape from kid to adult, so we really don't know enough.

[pastel summit]

or at least, they are humanoid animals.

[ember matrix]

Agree. Definitely lots of moon stuff from zou and wano.

No way skypeia and that cover story don't get referenced

[waxen light]

Would that mean they would always be in Sulong form up on the moon?

[dusky acorn]

I have a theory that King's race is from the wandering sky island of Balloon Terminal, I briefly talked about it before, though it was sort of shot down. #manga message

But like, it's the only other ruined island in the skies we know about. Thus, if King isn't from Birka or Temrinal, he has to be something new entirely.
Main thing that offputs me from both of these sky islands though is not they don't seem like fiery sky regions, which is the kind of place you'd assume King's people grew up in to have those eternal flames.

Basically, the points going for my theory are

• Hawkins said there is, or was long standing legends of "monsters" existing up around where Terminal was. King seems like quite a monstrous race just by his size, wings, etc.
• It's a ruined island that lost all of its people.
• Kaido went there himself, who is a character who has a connection to King. (Though yes, he was still there for another goal entirely.)
  That's about it really

[pastel summit]

Here's the thing. I'm going to assume that Enel is correct. It's a very sound line of logic imo. There are no natural-born "sky islanders". It inherently does not support human life. So if King is from Balloon Terminal, then his race still would have to originate from somewhere else.

[dusky acorn]

Yikes, that is true. Figuring out where King originally was is already pretty hard to make a solid case for, let alone a place even PRIOR to that. And like, his people weren't on the moon so like, where??

[ember matrix]

Yeah that's my feeling as well.

[dusky acorn]

Perhaps some region with very very tall volcanos? That's the only other idea I can think of. Like, not tall enough to reach sky islands but still somehow tall enough to necessitate his race growing wings. That's all I got.

[pastel summit]

The ones we know of: Skypeia, Birka, both originated from the moon.
Weatheria: Artificial
Balloon Terminal: Isn't this also artificial?

[dusky acorn]

I'm not sure if the balloons are the thing that actually makes it possible to be in the air or just aesthetic. I'd have to reread the SBS, but either way the material of the island itself seems to be the kind of solid clouds in the OP world, so should be good to count as a full fledged one

[versed hamlet]

born from the carelessness of children, and wanders the skies

[pastel summit]

and honestly, the moon could also be a misdirect as well. Moon people might be fake. People from the ground, who millennia ago, aspired to reach the moon, and developed a civilization there. but that's going a bit too deep, and is really only based on the moon people descending for "resources"

[gloomy canyon]

I don't think King comes from a location we know of already

[pastel summit]

oh wow. this is interesting. especially that last line.

[dusky acorn]

Ah thanks meek, I suppose the island only exists because of the balloons. (Even though the clouds totally seem to be solid by themselves )
But still, Balloon Terminal may have existed for decades, likely even centuries even so

[ember matrix]

This gives me pokedex entry vibes (I'm sorry for the off topic and won't mention it further, just needed to let that out)

[pastel summit]

so people migrated there, made a civilization, and that civilization got destroyed.

[versed hamlet]

Yeah thats what it seems like

what is "feel like flying" helium though

[pastel summit]

made up gas lol

[gloomy canyon]

yeah, that kind of implies that the people from there weren't their own separate race

So can't really see King's race originating from there

[dusky acorn]

Wait, there were 2 separate civilisations in the history Balloon Terminal's existence? "A new civilisation was born again"

That really does give credence to the place having existed for centuries

[gloomy canyon]

wait what translation is that meek

[versed hamlet]

google images

[gloomy canyon]

coz the one on the wiki doesn't mention that

[versed hamlet]

its sbs 80 tho

[dusky acorn]

The wiki deters from the Viz volume translationsa bit, I'll see if I can grab it

[gloomy canyon]

@dusky acorn from the viz website

[ember matrix]

Wiki has something similar

[pastel summit]

the wiki and viz one seem a lot more accurate.

[gloomy canyon]

Yeah so there was only one civilization, and the "flies on" is referring to the island itself

[dusky acorn]

Oh gotcha, so only one civilisation lol

[ember matrix]

So it was likely only one civilisation

[gloomy canyon]

yep

[pastel summit]

so now there is whoever the fuck was on balloon terminal.

the rabbit hole goes deeper and deeper.

[gloomy canyon]

a civilization made up of entirely children, and it was destroyed because children are inept and can't rule a kingdom

[ember matrix]

Tell that to BM (wait that justifies your point nvm)

[grizzled fog]

Wait isn’t that line just implying that a bunch of children below let go of their balloons and they all floated up?

[versed hamlet]

yea and im looking at the japanese raws
basically it says
"there even was a culture that was born- even though it perished, it [balloon terminal] continued flying".

[gloomy canyon]

yeah lol I was joking, but it would be funny if some of the children didn't let go of their balloons and were brought up to the island

[grizzled fog]

Oh

[pastel summit]

at this point, I feel like it's almost certain that Birka (moon city) was the progenitor for the ancient kingdom. and King may be part of whatever people were from Balloon Terminal. depends on how long that civilization flourished for, and did they develop their own evolutionary traits within that time.

or were they always like that.

[ember matrix]

Very possible. I remember a theory that said the namesake birka has viking origins?

[versed hamlet]

do you think that all of these weird connections will all get tied together in one way once we learn about the void century

[dusky acorn]

Birka is a name that originates from the Viking Age yes, seems to be on the trivia for the Wiki

And also, Captain Mckinely said "I've heard that Birka also had a powerful sky warrior(s), but that didn't mean a thing in front of Enel!"
"ビルカにもく屈強な空の戦士がいたそうだがエネルの前では一意味すらないか!!!"
(Plural is vague in japanese, but he likely meant multiple even though VIZ translated it as a singular fighter.)

[random yacht]

Birka (Birca in medieval sources), on the island of Björkö (literally: "Birch Island") in present-day Sweden, was an important Viking Age trading center which handled goods from Scandinavia and Finland as well as Central and Eastern Europe and the Orient

[pastel summit]

The moon city of Birka seemed to have been technologically advanced, that it had machinations that ran on electricity, as well as energy lines that were capable of running electricity. There is a possibility that the Goro Goro no Mi had origins on the moon, and was a devil fruit that was passed down to rulers of that city. Enel's God complex may come from this, as the person who possessed the Goro Goro no Mi may have been referred to as "God" due to their ability to power Birka (moon city), and this may have been passed into Birkan (sky island) legend that "lightning = god"

thoughts?

[random yacht]

There's a possibility, yeah

[pastel summit]

Enel is the only sky islander who has a DF, and was aware of DF classifications.

[gloomy canyon]

Enel's connection to the city of Birka seemed almost too apparent not to be intentional so the idea that the rulers of the city used to power it with the goro goro no mi is super interesting

[dusky acorn]

It does seem quite fitting, I'm down for this idea.
Also, lightning in the OP world having a connection to 'god' seems to be prevalent even outside of Enel too, with things like Raijin Island. There's a good precedent for the lightning fruit to be a long-standing god fitting power, so yeah.

[gloomy canyon]

Can you explain what you mean by Birka being the progenitor for the ancient kingdom?

[pastel summit]

the ancient kingdom comes from the moon. Either the people who left the moon gave their technology that birthed it, since I assume the kingdom was incredibly technologically advanced that it could grow so rapidly within 100 years, or it is the ancient kingdom in question.

Another theory I saw was that the ancient kingdom was a bunch of different kingdoms, or birthed from them. Like, developed allies and grew from those allies to become immensely powerful.

we already see how many different countries are tied to the void century. Wano, Shandora, Alabasta, Ryuugu, Mokomo Dukedom

[gloomy canyon]

The latter is the theory I've always stuck with. I think the Ancient Kingdom will be inspired off of the pirate legend of Libertalia

[ember matrix]

One thing to mention is also that we may already know the ancient kingdom's name, since Clover was shot before he could mention it. This makes sense either way in world, but considering the meta there's no reason to bring it up or cut it off if we weren't going to learn the name before it was revealed to be the ancient kingdom.

[gloomy canyon]

And it was just a technologically advanced society with practically every race. But you could combine the two and say the races that descended from the moon joined this kingdom and introduced their advanced technologies

[pastel summit]

I mean, not necessarily. It could've been kept hidden because Oda wanted to reveal it later, but yeah. It's possible we already knew it at the time.

[random yacht]

yeah the WG really didnt want the name to get out so it had to be a public name

like something that people would instantly recognize

One of the only unknown islands people all know the name of is Laugh Tale

[versed hamlet]

One Piece

nvm thats a corny ass name

[dusky acorn]

It's a shame that the name "One Piece" doesn't seem to hold as much weight ever since learning a news article of all things came up with the name.

[gloomy canyon]

Not necessarily. It doesn't have to be recognizable to the public, the WG just doesn't want any of the truths from the void century to be leaked

[pastel summit]

but wasn't One Piece the name given to it by the govt?

it is still kinda lame, but, it could be important. but I do kinda doubt it.

[versed hamlet]

has the AK only been referenced by the ohara scholars so far?

[gloomy canyon]

yeah it seems the government gave it that name along with calling Roger the pirate king

[dusky acorn]

I'm not entirely sure, but I thought the WG wasn't always in complete control of the news? I know they can be and do twist events, but other times freelancers like Morgans just do their own thing

[random yacht]

bro but if someone said "the name of the kingdom was 'blrögenjorm'" bruh you wouldn't say "quick! shoot them" for that name

[gloomy canyon]

Well yeah, if not the government, a news agency like Morgans. But Roger wasn't the one who named it it seems

[random yacht]

cuz nobody would recognize blrögenjorm

[pastel summit]

they didn't shoot him just because of the name. they shot him because he learned enough that he could identify the name of the ancient kingdom.

he wasn't publicly broadcasting or anything.

[gloomy canyon]

The WG don't want anything from the void century being known by anyone outside of them

[dusky acorn]

Vince is taking things from a readers perspective which can make sense for the scene, but I think the in-story reason as to why things like that happen should always take priority first

[gloomy canyon]

Simple as, he was shot because he knew and the WG had to silence him for his knowledge. Him being shot right before he said the name is just Oda not wanting the reader to hear the name

[pastel summit]

the only thing is, I wonder if robin knows the name. or was that a theory that clover kept to himself?

[random yacht]

as soon as he said "and its name was" the gorosei ordered to kill him
that means they don't want even the cp and marines to not know the name

[ancient vault]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-X4F0D5ZF4

@pastel summit did u see sth like this before?

[pastel summit]

nope. that's definitely interesting.

[gloomy canyon]

Well the marines and cp aren't celestial dragons, they are just their enforcers. I'm sure the gorosei include them in the realm of the public and don't want them to know any secrets

[random yacht]

yeah but if the name was like "krülgenschmörtz" they wouldn't care

[pastel summit]

I've theorized to myself that Wano and Jaya were once connected, which could tie into the whole continent puller stuff with Oars, and maybe why the CDs call it Pangaea castle, because they took the name of the ancient kingdom, which was Pangaea, in every sense of the word.

[random yacht]

ooh that could be possible

[pastel summit]

but I didn't think about the left eye. It may be too small to hold Wano though.

[random yacht]

that the wg doesn't want the connection with pangea castle to be known

[ancient vault]

what does pangaea mean? Flower?

[random yacht]

Pangea is the initial continent

[pastel summit]

also ties into Wano being called "Land of Gold" and Shandora being the "City of Gold", but then it breaks my Ryuma theory, which I think is way more possible.

[gloomy canyon]

That's not the point. The point is that people outside the circle of the celestial dragons would know pieces of classified information about the void century. That alone is not allowed by the WG

[dusky acorn]

It would only be us as readers who wouldn't necessarily care if the name was so random. In reality, ANY name of what the kingdom is, regardless of how abstract it may sound is something that the Gorosei thinks should be kept 100% shut to the world

[random yacht]

every single land mass we know today was split off from the original "supercontinent" pangea

[pastel summit]

Pangaea is the name of the massive continent that the Earth used to be, before everything split off.

[ember matrix]

Makes sense. But that would only be a threat if there were people or sources existing that could trace the name to something or the name itself had some meaning?

Otherwise why not just make a red herring and overwrite what that name was in the centuries they had?

[gloomy canyon]

eh I don't think the WG care about that. They simply don't allow ANY information from the void century being known

[random yacht]

but like information that the name of the kingdom was "mingöllderf" would be useless and if they already know the ancient kingdom was a thing why kill them exactly when they say the name? it makes more sense if the name was something everyone would recognize

[ancient vault]

oh right but doesnt viz call it flower chamber or sth like that?

[pastel summit]

but it's not being broadcast to everyone, so everyone knowing it is irrelevant.

[random yacht]

bro

[pastel summit]

are you referring to the place where Im was? That's a place within Pangaea castle.

[random yacht]

the marines and cp were present

[ancient vault]

Ohhhhh the castle is called pangaea, I mixed sth up

[random yacht]

the WG didn't want THEM to know the name

[dusky acorn]

I mean, aren't other aspects about the Void Century such as Joyboy's real name and the Ancient Weapons also names that are kept completely shut to the public? The kingdom's name should go the same way too, it's just a general name that doesn't want to be commonly known

[gloomy canyon]

Because they aren't celestial dragons. They are just their enforcers. They are not allowed to know the secrets of the void century either

[pastel summit]

they don't want ANYONE to know. It's irrelevant whether it's relevant to something or not. Information about it is kept under wraps, even if it's called "mingöllderf" and no one has ever heard of that place

[dusky acorn]

Of course I still think from a narrative perspective the name of the kingdom should have some meaningful name, but I'm arguing on the side of the Gorosei were still killing Clover regardless of what it was, like why not stop him from leaking unnecessary info anyways

[ember matrix]

I mean AK name seems more hush hush. Ancient weapon names were told to cp9. I mean they trusted spandam with it so idk how much they care to keep that secret.

[gloomy canyon]

Good analogy is leaked spoilers #manga 🙂 If someone went into manga chat and said "Kaido is a fish?" it might not have much meaning without context but it's still information that isn't allowed in that channel

[random yacht]

but I'd think they'd be fine with letting the marines or CP know of "mingöllderf" but they really wanted them not to know

[gloomy canyon]

Can't believe I made a discord analogy for one piece 🤢

They wouldn't be fine with that. All it takes is one soldier to leak it and more and more of the public know its name. They are super strict and cautious when it comes to information about the void century being known by anyone outside of themselves

[dusky acorn]

The ancient weapons names aren't kept a 100% secret but they're still not things normal people should know. My main point about bringing Joyboy and Ancient Weapons into the argument is that they're not really meaningful names by themselves that you can really trace back to something world-changing, so the same can go for the Great Kingdom.

[versed hamlet]

Yeah and pretend that the mods are the gorosei and that the random discord members are the public

[pastel summit]

then why not tell everyone? They just don't want anyone to know anything about it, regardless. it leads to questions.

you can't stop random marine#234124 from telling someone if he overhears it, then the name spreads.

[ember matrix]

Def see where you coming from. But the names weren't hidden from us the same way the AK was. We learned about them gradually, but it wasn't actively hiding the info.

[gloomy canyon]

It leads to more skepticism about the WG, which can lead to more anti-government factions and beliefs like the revos

[pastel summit]

then a bunch of people are now asking "what's mingöllderf?"

[random yacht]

why not tell everyone? because it isn't something like "mingöllderf" that's the point I'm trying to make
I'm trying to make the point that the name would be something recognizable

[versed hamlet]

only recognizable to the reader

[ember matrix]

It's where Buggy sama and God Usopp are from.

[pastel summit]

to the readers, yeah. avg person doesn't know entire geography of every island in OP world.

[random yacht]

but why did they kill them at the moment clover wanted to reveal the name and not when he revealed the existence of the ancient kingdom

[gloomy canyon]

Oda simply didn't want to reveal the name of the AK to the readers at that point in time. It was to build suspense.

[dusky acorn]

Because that just happened to be the point where they ascertained his extent of knowledge was too vast to be let alive

[random yacht]

okay makes sense

still think it's gonna be something people would recognize

[ember matrix]

Yeah, it could just be a random name... just think it would have nicer payoff if it was something we'd aha about.

[gloomy canyon]

reading through the Ohara flashback and it is insane how similar young Kuzan looks to young Brook lol

[dusky acorn]

Well don't get us wrong we too think it'll likely be something significant, we were just arguing for the possibility of it being some gibberish being a slight possibility that can't be completely disregarded

[versed hamlet]

ah brook is kuzan's grandfather theory again

[gloomy canyon]

no no, I'm not saying anything like that, just making an observation

[ember matrix]

Yeah no worries! It's good to get the alternate arguments out there.

[pastel summit]

of course, it's going to be something people recognize, or at least related to it. It's not some massive mystery to us, we've gotten hints throughout the story of which countries are related to the ancient kingdom. it'd be pretty weird if it was completely separated from anything in the story thus far. The name itself may not be important, but how it relates to other places will be.

[polar raven]

woop slap is going to be at wano and assist luffy in defeating kaido

[dusky acorn]

Serious theories only bud

[ancient vault]

Btw someone wrote a theory regarding the dawn and tokis prophecy and that it could actually stand for a solar eclipse. He didnt elaborate because he didnt have any further ideas but maybe you can connect it to enel and the moon, skypiea etc.
https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/lk5n0h/dawn_and_the_celestial_dragons/

[polar raven]

you heard it here first ladies and gentlemen

[versed hamlet]

could the name be birka?

[pastel summit]

it could be, yeah.

I think Birka is a strong contender for it.

but it could just be a completely different, unique name. but all these other countries and kingdoms will relate to it in some way.

[gloomy canyon]

Also, when Clover was talking to the Gorosei, I'm sure they wanted to know exactly HOW MUCH clover knew to ascertain the extent of the knowledge that had been learned. This could make them become even more cautious and take extra precautions. Killing him instantly without assessing what they had actually learned would be too rash

This proves that actually because earlier in the call the Gorosei say that "even if you don't have evil intent we have to kill you" but then after hearing what Clover knew they said Ohara has learned too much. So they were just assessing the extent of their knowledge and the name of the ancient kingdom was the final straw

[ancient vault]

@pastel summit https://yy.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/8y5b8v/one_piece_final_twist_void_century_theory/
This is the one I was talking about. 2 years ago tho (its very long)

[ember matrix]

I like the idea of all the prophecy stuff leading to a phenomena instead of a chosen one. AK being advanced justifies them being able to predict when an eclipse (or some natural event) would happen and feels better than a predestined future.

[dusky acorn]

Yeah Evan, things just happened to end up the way they did. I'm pretty sure Clover could have instead switched topics to some other random Void Century details like "And that Joyboy dude's name was..!" Or, "The meaning behind the Will of D is..!" and they'd have shot him in that moment regardless.
Still though, the fact that Oda chose to highlight the Great Kingdom allows the build up for it specifically to feel pretty potent.

[ancient vault]

This could be taken literally and maybe they have some sort of technology that allows them to move the moon

They might've had a solar eclipse when the AK fall or during the war in the void century

[versed hamlet]

this is gonna be a stretch but what if everyone could go into sulong form, not just minks

[ancient vault]

There are some clear parallels between Christianity/catholic church and the WG and this could also tie to the solar eclipse because wait

[pastel summit]

damn. yeah, this theory is pretty good. haven't finished reading it yet, but I've come to a lot of the same conclusions, except the stuff about D being descendants of moon people.

[dusky acorn]

Completely went passed me how Sulong is yet another connection with moon/electricity in tandem

[ancient vault]

In Christianity Jesus died during the so called "crucifixion darkness". A time period in which the sky becomes dark in daytime during the crucifixion of Jesus, a solar eclipse. It is said that this was not a natural occurring event but rather a miraculous sign from above.

This is why I'm referring to the solar eclipse of the WG being an artificial one to literally stop the sun from dawning

[versed hamlet]

ur saying that uranus could block out the sun??

[ancient vault]

But they argued that it was a sign from heaven (Im)

[versed hamlet]

assuming that the wg have uranus as their main weapon

ok that part ig is a stretch but do u think they could block out the sun in some way

[ancient vault]

Could be but Im not sure and have no idea whether this is the work of an ancient weapon

[ancient vault]

Yes

[ember matrix]

Moving the moon feels like a bit too much...

[versed hamlet]

and luffy being the thematic god he is, he will Bring The Dawn and Destroy the WG.

[ancient vault]

Abusing gravity

I really have no idea but when I found the solar eclipse theory I remembered the parallels between the WG and Roman Empire/Christianity/Catholic church

https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/i3bj3s/the_ancient_kingdom_and_the_roman_empire_the/

[pastel summit]

okay, I disagree with his reasoning for why the AK was brought down. doesn't really make sense, but that's irrelevant.

[ember matrix]

Speaking of thematic god luffy: how cool would it be if he carried a poneglyph on his back when he arrived for his WG battle, paralleling WBs words of someone carrying the history?

[ancient vault]

[ancient vault]

The timeline is :

More than 1100 years ago : The people from the moon depart for the blue sea.
1100 years ago : Shandora is built by the people from the moon, the Shandorians.
900 years ago : The void century begins.
800 years ago : Shandora is destroyed (Chapter 261), the void century ends and the world governement is born.

[pastel summit]

what's the source on when shandora was built? I must've missed that.

[ember matrix]

Yeah I thought they just prospered then

[gloomy canyon]

Just read part 1 of that theory swr, don't really agree with some of it. Dragon and by extension Luffy being Shandian is hard to imagine. And just the D. clan itself being that heavily related to the sky people doesn't seem like that strong of a connection

[ancient vault]

261

[pastel summit]

prospered not created.

[ember matrix]

yeah it was around longer

created would have given us a date for when sky people migrated maybe which would be super interesting

[versed hamlet]

he just has a huge sack of all 30 poneglyphs carried on his back as he's being launched through the air, just to crash land through pangea castle infront of imu

[ember matrix]

I'd live for this

Luffy being chaotic is the only guaranteed to be correct theory

[pastel summit]

Wano ending is probably gonna open up a lot of things. I still believe that the ancient kingdom originated from the moon, but I think Wano was the only country relating to the AK/VC that didn't lose, and why they were closed off. and I'm pretty confident it's because of Ryuma. and there will probably be a lore dump we get that relates to Wano's history.

[versed hamlet]

what do you mean by lose?

[ancient vault]

Ryuma to strong

[pastel summit]

as in, the ancient kingdom got destroyed because the WG beat them somehow, right? Wano is closely related, and I think the WG genuinely was just not able to defeat it.

[ancient vault]

How does this tie into my "the previous tama fruit owner was a government official" theory

[versed hamlet]

but like how would the AK lose if someone allied to the AK didnt lose as well? wouldnt they have to be all defeated for it to be a true win

[pastel summit]

and they remained closed off, so that their culture would remain.

[versed hamlet]

ryuma killed the prev user of tama's fruit

[ancient vault]

yessir

[gloomy canyon]

I feel like the people of the moon coming down and sharing their technological knowledge with and creating/joining the AK is likely

[pastel summit]

well Wano can't fight back against the WG. They'd lose. but the WG also wasn't able to beat Wano.

[ancient vault]

And the dragons the previous tama owner tamed

[pastel summit]

and thus, Wano remained closed off, waiting for the "dawn", that would re-shift the balance again.

[ancient vault]

I think it was more so Wano couldnt risk leaving their country because they had to wait for joyboys return

As well as protect the poneglyphs

[versed hamlet]

maybe unrelated (?) how does zunesha's punishment fit into this

[pastel summit]

I think it's pretty telling that Wano is the only country that was given poneglyphs to protect that had/retained the knowledge to read them, and coincidentally, they are the only country that remained closed off to the world.

[versed hamlet]

were they just an ally of the AK and each ally had their own seperate punishment besides wano

[ancient vault]

How many years ago was that?

[versed hamlet]

1k i think

[gloomy canyon]

But it's also been stated that Wano's samurai including Ryuma protected Wano's borders. It's safe to assume that the WG just couldn't take control of Wano and it remained isolated ever since

[pastel summit]

My theory on Zunesha's punishment is more about the ancient weapons. I think Zunesha may have "created" Poseidon. Like, somehow that knowledge was imparted, and made hereditary.

[ancient vault]

Who gave him the punishment?

[dusky acorn]

Yep,iIt all ties together with how the preconceived notion regarding the might of Wano's samurai force being feared even to this day, (Even though the samurai haven't really been in their heyday recently, the WG/Akainu didn't know that.)
Ryuma probably tried to make as big of a mark as possible while alive so that the name of Wano alone would deter pursuers for entering many centuries to come. Because at some point, we clearly know the nobles just stopped trying to take it under control entirely

[gloomy canyon]

^ Think this all stems from Ryuma

[versed hamlet]

oh nvm

[pastel summit]

of course, this hinges on Ryuma being alive during the void century.

[versed hamlet]

zunesha was born 1k years ago, and he was punished in the "ancient past"

[ancient vault]

how long ago was ryuma?

[gloomy canyon]

Haven't we only been told that Ryuma was alive centuries ago/

[pastel summit]

we don't know

yeah. it was only specified "centuries ago". no actual timeframe has been given for when he was alive aside from that.

[ember matrix]

It makes me curious about the meito stuff too since shusui was still well known.

[gloomy canyon]

I feel like it would be super random for him to be from lets say 200 years ago, and it would make a lot more sense if he was from void century

It's just kinda hard to imagine any prominent figure from "centuries ago" not being tied to the void century lol

[ancient vault]

whats up with the name the city of gold

[dusky acorn]

Ryuma's time could have even been in the void century which is the most insane possible revelation probably

Since Wano was one of the few who fought to keep their history

Honestly, that might just be waht Oda does

Especially when considering Toki's parents and all that, 2 flashbacks with 1 stone

[ancient vault]

Maybe zunesha was tamed by the previous government official and helped them out. And when ryuma killed that guy he punished zunesha for wreaking this much havoc against his friends as well as letting zunesha roam around permanently would stop enemies from finding his/her location and prevent a disaster like this again

[pure raven]

In fact, Yasuie says that despite the strength of all of Wano's samurai, Kaido (he calls him monster) managed to put down their latest great rebellion. So why should I think that the navy under normal conditions cannot conquer them? But in the end, the navy creates false expectations about samurai, because they certainly imagine all samurai as strong as Oden and Ryuma, but that's not the truth.

[ancient vault]

Because ryuma is on another lvel

[pastel summit]

Yeah. Like I said before, it's very telling to me that Wano was the only country that retained the knowledge of the poneglyph writing language, and they're coincidentally the only country that has remained "closed off" for the last 800 years. I think it's possible something similar to Ohara may have happened to other countries in the void century, where people who could read the poneglyphs were killed off in order to prevent the passing of the knowledge of them.

[gloomy canyon]

That's the most likely explanation as to why Wano samurai are still feared to this day. "World nobles desired it" could imply that the government invaded Wano itself and Ryuma is the one who pushed them away

[ancient vault]

He wasnt called "the worlds strongest swordsman" but literally the "sword god" lol

[pastel summit]

but they couldn't do that in Wano, because of Ryuma, and the Wano samurai and natural defences.

[ancient vault]

I always think its funny how ppl literally fear the country you once lived in centuries after your death

Like how strong was this guy pls

[gloomy canyon]

I think that's a major testament to Ryuma's power and how well Wano has been able to remain isolated from the government

[ember matrix]

Wano was the country that made the poneglyph though, so that also makes sense as to why they know it.

[pastel summit]

they made the stones and wrote on them. that doesn't necessarily mean they're the creators of that language. Unless you're saying Wano is the ancient kingdom

[pure raven]

Exactly, but the navy still shows how stupid it is XD come on, they are just fools to think that they are all Ryuma hahaha

[ancient vault]

tf

[ember matrix]

Ah no, I guess I didn't make that distinction.

[ancient vault]

I literally cant find any theories on why wano was once the land of gold

[gloomy canyon]

It's gotta be connected to Shandora somehow right?

[pastel summit]

yeah. It's very hard to really make a theory about it. There's obvious connections to Shandora

[pure raven]

Shandora city of gold, I link it to that

[pastel summit]

but I just can't piece together how they were connected. Like, were they physically connected? One theory that went through my head was that Birka (moon city), had gold, that it gave to countries that were its allies.

[ancient vault]

time to go to japanese sites

[versed hamlet]

what if pluton is the dragon that ryuma slayed, the WG could have stolen pluton from the AK and used it on its allies to stop the knowledge of the poneglyph writing language, and since ryuma took it down, wano managed to keep it and became one of his greatest legends. and now pluton is residing underneath the sands of alabasta

[dusky acorn]

Oh, the Shimon from 10 months ago tried doing some speculation on it, I don't think it holds up well but maybe you guys can take something from it #manga-theories message

[versed hamlet]

sorry im on some conspiracy shit atm it just makes so much sense

[gloomy canyon]

GOLD?! Like it has to be related to Shandora somehow. I think Oda purposefully wanted us to make the connection fo the "Land of Gold" to the "City of Gold"

[versed hamlet]

wait shimon thats basically what i just said wtf

[pastel summit]

I saw this. I was looking for anyone talking about when Ryuma died and saw this theory.

[dusky acorn]

Oh lol meek, pretty cool how that turns out

I don't agree with what I said previously about how the World Nobles stole the gold after Ryuma died

[versed hamlet]

also since oda likes to use thematic parallels, do you think that in the AK vs WG battle, that there could have been a Void Century ver of Kanjuro that could have been leaking info/etc

[dusky acorn]

Doesn't fit with how Wano is still feared, if they just strolled up and gleefully stole all of it afterwards

[versed hamlet]

Or just be like betraying the AK secretly, ie by giving ancient weapons or something

[pure raven]

I way to understand their connection is impossible. Gold itself as a mineral within Skipiea's macrotrama also didn't matter, I mean, it was a fine rich city. Wano himself, however, was and is a country with many natural resources. So maybe that name "golden country" was taken in a less literal sense than Shandora?

[gloomy canyon]

I’m starting to ponder if the dragon Ryuma slew in the flower capital wasn’t just some random dragon that decided to show up in Wano. but perhaps part of another one of the choreographed onslaught by said world nobles?
Ok this is kinda cool ngl

[versed hamlet]

ya history repeats itself

[pastel summit]

something else could be that it wasn't literally gold. It could be called "Land of Gold" simply due to its prosperity and abundance of natural resources.

[ancient vault]

Oh yeah I also theorized that part in my prrevious tama fruit owner theory shimon

[pastel summit]

specifically minerals.

[gloomy canyon]

sea prism

[ancient vault]

Good to see im not the only who thinks ryuma went berserk on them fckers

[pure raven]

That's what I meant😁

[gloomy canyon]

But yeah, at this point in the story, I just can't imagine Ryuma NOT being from the void century

[ancient vault]

If city of gold was meant literally I think we can take land of gold literally too

[pastel summit]

at the very least, I expect Ryuma exposition at the end of Wano.

[ember matrix]

Yeah we need some info dumps after the raid

[gloomy canyon]

I think all the flashbacks we're getting from this point onwards will have VC implications tied to them

[pastel summit]

why would it be called the land of gold? Was gold abundant throughout the country? Where has it gone then? None of it remains, but Wano is closed off.

[dark palm]

we'll get something choc

zoro said he wanted to visit his grave

[gloomy canyon]

continent pullers

[pastel summit]

evan are you a "wano was built by oars" believer?

[ancient vault]

So will brook, thriller bark parallel

[gloomy canyon]

Not really no

[pastel summit]

okay good

[dusky acorn]

We know a temple for Ryuma exists as Gyukimaru said, should be cool to have that shown

[keen portal]

choc, rather than actual gold, I think its most likely referring to gold as an abtract form of riches. So meant to imply that wano was a land of wealth or riches

[ancient vault]

wait which evan is this guy

[dark palm]

that'll be where zoro goes

[pastel summit]

and yeah juba. Just give me that confirmation he's from the void century.

[keen portal]

not literal dumps of gold

[gloomy canyon]

The main evan 🙂 (jsg)

[dark palm]

that explains why the flower capital looked like a cowboy town back then

[pastel summit]

ye, that's what I said a bit earlier as well.

[ancient vault]

why did u remove JSG

[pure raven]

You know what, I would have expected it before the battle, but after all it is also good at the end of the war

[gloomy canyon]

I honestly don't know swr lmao

[keen portal]

WG wanted to capitalise on the "gold rush" but sheriff Ryuma said NO

[dusky acorn]

Yeah it might be a figurative kind of thing.
We even saw how the Wano in Oden's time looked like a spectacular place anyone would desire to live in and take over. Not to mention the sea prism stone

[gloomy canyon]

Im coordinated the attack on Wano but Ryuma defended it

[dusky acorn]

One of the definitions google has for gold anyway is "something considered to be precious, beautiful, or of the most superior quality.". Like, as an example people here even say things like "This panel is pure GOLD!" as a metaphor.

Though not sure how well things bode for how well the word can also be used like that in JP

[gloomy canyon]

It feels kinda weird for Wano to have been a place with an abundance of actual gold similar to Shandora but for all of it to be gone whilst Wano is still isolated

Honestly have no clue tho

[ancient vault]

Maybe its the seastone?

Isnt seastone considered really expensive and rare? And the landscape of Wano is pretty beautiful too

[versed hamlet]

seastone underwater reflected by sunlight looks like gold or something like that

[ancient vault]

what

I never heard that before

[versed hamlet]

NVM like 800 years ago some random person couldve seen seastone and it looked like gold or whatever which started the legend idk its just headcanon

shouldve specified the headcanon part

[random yacht]

seastone is very obviously greenish blue and not gold
I think it was called the land of gold because of all the valuable resources there

[night jewel]

suddenly this theory has me thinking if the "god" in the phrase "D are known as god's archenemy" refers to nature itself, like the enemy of nature, and if the storm that they cause is supposed to be a literal storm that they caused by messing up nature and whatnot... big stretch I know but still...

[fresh galleon]

big stretch indeed...

what if luffys mom is a celestial dragon and the whole reason why dragon started this revolution is to break her out from this system. dont laugh at this...

[keen portal]

dw, even if its without anything to go on, as of now, garp's wife or dragon's wife being a CD is a very very common theory. Tons of people have made it.

[carmine canyon]

Why do u all think wano is closed?

[crimson flax]

Bc they turned against wg

[acoustic helm]

Poneglyph

And there status with ancient kingdom

[crimson flax]

Do u guys think raftel could b ancient kingdom?

[ancient vault]

no

[random yacht]

it's possible but the theory that it was a collection of different islands that were split apart into different islands seems to make more sense

[pure raven]

In Op we speak several times of D that trigger storms, and it can be interpreted both in a symbolic and literal sense

Think of the Edd War storm, which brought Roger good. Or he himself unleashed it with his will (although that's another matter)

[tardy granite]

And if red line was made by wg to isolate ak?

[wooden topaz]

when Garp tell his father is Dragon, he doesnt even know yet, i'm pretty sure Luffy still dont know her mother too.

[covert hazel]

The 1 second I saw that and thought it was real I was happy

Then I read it and thanked god it wasn't

[sturdy hawk]

lmao

[spark sage]

Any good theories about Imu and Joyboy?

I second this

[night jewel]

@pure raven please dont send fake spoils, especially in this channel

[cyan berry]

pretty sure it was intended to be a meme, considering every other line had someone meeting a silhoutte, but yeah not the channel

[night jewel]

yea yea i know, but it was formatted as a spoiler summary so sending it = sending fake spoilers, even if its a meme, and memes dont belong in this channel as well

[supple nimbus]

Ig someone pin this? This is so so so well written.

[ancient vault]

Gotta ask @dusky acorn

[pure raven]

So the spoilers that are coming out are fake, right? Ahahha

[pastel summit]

don't talk about them here.

[pure raven]

Yes ok I received the confirmation elsewhere ahaha

[pure raven]

Whoops sorry, it seemed like an obvious joke to me, and i didnt think yall would tolerate it on the spoilers channel so i put it here

[idle meadow]

How strong do you think luffy would be after wano? Yonko level?

Luffy

[visual merlin]

Depends on how he grows

I'd like to think he'll extend his time in g4 greatly, or shorten the time it takes for him to get his haki back, along with just getting a bit stronger in every physical area. So if that happens I think he'll be around as strong as the admirals, maybe stronger than a few of them

[idle meadow]

That's what I want the most: a seamless gear 4!

[limber kernel]

Hello

[proper apex]

Maybe, it´s a possibility

[limber kernel]

[carmine comet]

theory: there are 4 yonkos right and 4 red poneglyphs big mom has one and kaido has one luffy has share one with big mom and he's about to share one with kaido so i'm assuming that shanks and black beard has one and due to nordic mythology and the character shanks is based off of shanks will die to black beard then luffy will have to fight blackbeard to get the last 2 and to also avenge shanks and once he does that he'll become the king of the pirates

[keen portal]

Uhhh... But the third poneglyph is on zou and they already have it recorded.

[carmine comet]

oh then black beard must not have one and might go for the one shanks have and my theory still stands

[keen portal]

Shanks dying to bb? Sure that part might come true.

[pure raven]

Yes there are four four emperors.

[carmine comet]

it will because shanks is based off of the nordic god of war who dies to a 3 headed dog

[terse garnet]

It is stated that both Big Mom and Kaido possess a red poneglyph.. The 3rd one is on Zou which leaves the last one being somewhere completely different.. Only Shanks might know where it's located, perhaps being even the one protecting it once Luffy challenges him (which will be their long awaited meeting and promise)

[carmine comet]

shanks was celebrating something when ace met him maybe he was celebrating the find of the last one

[ember trench]

Last one was on Fishman Island

[keen portal]

The missing poneglyph used to be on fishman island. We saw that on Oden's flashback

It's been moved/stolen/hidden since then.

[carmine comet]

it was a blue one at fish man island

[ember trench]

Reread the Oden flashback

[terse garnet]

Shanks is often seen celebrating..
Be it his first official Manga meeting with Mihawk
The meeting with Ace
Or the wedding on the cover story

[carmine comet]

and shanks found it

[signal nymph]

i feel like its still somewhere around there and was probably moved to keep it away from big mom

[keen portal]

Shanks was already there with Roger and oden at FMI so yeah he'd know one road poneglyph is on fishman island.

It's not a huge thing

[signal nymph]

or like u said shanks took it

[carmine comet]

but theres only a blue poneglyph in fish man island

[keen portal]

Currently

[signal nymph]

there were two one was moved u need to reread/rewatch

[keen portal]

There were 2 in the flashback. As archer said, reread it.

[carmine comet]

it was probably removed by shanks or the world government which shanks has ties to

[signal nymph]

who do you think shanks met the 5 elders to talk about(reverie)

[carmine comet]

white beard

[signal nymph]

why whitebeard i would say either luffy or blackbeard

@carmine comet

[carmine comet]

i say white beard because that was right after ace was taken and before whitebeard went to war

[keen portal]

What

[carmine comet]

?

[keen portal]

Whitebeard going to war and shanks talking to gorosei are events two years apart...

[carmine comet]

noooooooo

[lyric dust]

why do you think blackbeard has two poneglyphs luffy needs?

[tight cloud]

Doesn’t kaido have a poneglyph?

[kind gate]

enemy of fate and destiny? but like for the rich and powerful?

[carmine comet]

that was debunked i dont think bb has any poneglyphs i think he'l kill shanks to take the one shanks has

[lyric dust]

the guy just forgot about the zou road poneglyph pretty sure thats just the problem with the theory

[lyric dust]

how did you get that?

[carmine comet]

and tbh its either that or hell just wait for luffy to get them all and then try to kill luffy cuz that just the snake he is

[carmine comet]

https://youtu.be/vOymB4DwBq8

any other questions???????????

[lyric dust]

ehhhh, its really assuming a lot

[carmine comet]

honestly i hope it doesn't go like that and there's like a 10 year timeskip but who knows

[carmine comet]

it is a theory after all i'm not saying its a definite but its better than a lot of the other bs i've heard you guys believing

[pure raven]

Relax yourself.

[carmine comet]

i mean come on luffy traveling to a different world to beat the world government lmaooooooo

[lyric dust]

https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/kuwuir/shanks_is_the_yakuza_of_the_underworld/ I personally like this theory better, I feel like it just makes more sense 🤷‍♂️

[carmine comet]

ok shanks is a yakuza and whats the end goal here ??

the anime is called one piece not SHANKS (even tho hes my favorite character)

[lyric dust]

hes the "yakuza of the underworld" lol read

[carmine comet]

id probably stop watching the anime

[pure raven]

@plucky python Keep it to serious theories here

[plucky python]

ok sorry

[high condor]

Are Road and Rio Poneglyph same?

[plucky python]

Ok actual theory now. When blackbeard dies i think he won't make two devil fruits but one because you can only have one and if he somehow dies anytime soon it will make like a dark-quake fruit

[kind gate]

no

[zinc iris]

No
Road poneglyphs are a map to laughtale
Rio poneglyphs tell the story of the void century

[kind gate]

It's not like he is using a dark quake fruit now

[plucky python]

i mean but it wouldn't make since to just have two fruits pop up

[zinc iris]

Why not?

[plucky python]

because only one is allowed

[high condor]

Laugh Take aka Raftel Island?
I know Luffy is looking for final Island and Robin looking for Rio Poneglyph, right?

[lyric dust]

a Dark-Quake fruit doesn't make sense either

why would the fruits mix together

[plucky python]

wait what if he just drops dark and then quake just ceases to exist?

[keen portal]

They'll pop out as two different fruits most likely. There's no reason to assume otherwise.

[plucky python]

well now i think he will just drop dark

[high condor]

It won't work as accorded to someone said, when DF user died, it will disappers for a while before grow in somewhere island so 2 DFs will end up 2 different islands

[plucky python]

tbh i wish we j
could just know how he took whitebeards df because if he can do this he can also have others

[kind gate]

but he's using two fruits

and he can use them separately too

[plucky python]

well if he can take others dfs that means dark fruit us the best one right

like if kaido died he could just steal kaidos dragon fruit

[keen portal]

It's not confirmed it's the dark dark fruits ability that lets him do that

It's more hinted towards BB body just being weird

[plucky python]

i would guess so yea

[high condor]

I heard about this as someone mentioned his body is very unique but I swear down I have seen this somewhere from One Piece about his body which is special case to allow him to have 2 DFs. I think somewhere before Fish-Man Island when Franky tell the crew about what happened to the worlds since they were away from 2 years

[keen portal]

Yeah according to the widespread understanding of this fact, your body just explodes

[pastel sinew]

Rio means road

[pastel sinew]

Yes

[pure raven]

They aren't the same.

The Rio poneglyph is a collection of poneglyphs that tell the full history of the void century.

[pastel sinew]

I’m a dumbass

[pure raven]

(The Road poneglyphs tell the location of Laugh Tale.)

[queen arrow]

the Rio Poneglyphs are the "Real Poneglyphs", the Road Poneglyphs are the red ones that lead to Laugh Tale

[pastel sinew]

Rio means river
Jesus Christ

Rio just doesn’t mean road. I goofed up hard

[pure raven]

Yea you connect them like a river to tell the full story like the graphic showed when Robin was talking about it

The story flows

[zinc iris]

Rio Poneglyph (真の歴史の本文リオ・ポーネグリフ, Rio Pōnegurifu?, literally meaning "True Text of History"

[high condor]

I am more interesting about Rio than Road as we all know we will get an answer from Raftel but for the Rio - I want to know more about void century as not much information since Sky Island, just a very little but Rayleigh did mentioned to Robin if she follow her own way, it could be turn out to be true history than Roger - doesnt it mean sense why he waiting for someone to finish off his final piece if they follow Poneglyphs - just following the story flow

[pastel sinew]

Yea I acknowledged how I messed up.
But Rio might actually mean river

[high condor]

I like how you explain! Perfect explain 😄

[high condor]

Is this text basic from Brazil? I just guessing cos Rio is well know in Brazil capital

[amber oar]

Río just means river in spanish and (i think) portuguese

[queen arrow]

Rio de Janeiro is a brazilian city on a state of the same name, it means January's River, and i doubt it's relevant at all

[amber oar]

Ah, but wait. Río means something else

It's the first person conjugation of "reír" which means "to laugh". So it means "I laugh"

[high condor]

OBJECTIVE: What if I tell you it might be link to Land of Gold?

Serious, what the heck is Oda to messed our mind! It is like we have to digging up the rabbit hole to finding all the piece together

[zinc iris]

yeah but not in japanese

[pure raven]

This is 10/10

[keen portal]

Inb4 it's Leo poneglyphs. Like Levely and laugh tale

[high condor]

Leo? Do you have source for this?

[zinc iris]

Leo can be pronounced Lìo that in japanese is written Rio because L=R

[amber oar]

OH LOGEL

[zinc iris]

Raufteir

[pure raven]

leo means I read

[amber oar]

Oda made a world map sketch which was showed years later and has the grand line as "gland line"

[amber oar]

It's Lio and Joyboy is Messi

[pure raven]

Is the pone from poneglyph actually Spanish?

[amber oar]

I don't think so... Poner means to put

[pure raven]

put (like inscribe) glyphs

[keen portal]

I don't know how accurate this is but I've seen it being spelled Ponegliffs in some translations

[zinc iris]

yes raftel is just how you write Laugh Tale's pronunciation in japanese characters that Oda deliberately obfuscated until the recent reveal by roger
luffy is looking for the final island because the one piece is there and getting there would mean his adventure is truly complete
Robin's life mission is to completely uncover the history of the void century after her whole island died for it, and now it's explicitly codified in finding the rio poneglyphs, and a big part of them is on Laugh Tale

but it's more of an happy coincidence, not every dream of the crew is about reaching laughtale, it's more that they do have to go around the world to achieve it so sticking with their friends is the best path

now thinking about it isn't it possible luffy almost wants to not reach laugh tale or it'd mean his adventure would be over?

[keen portal]

Reaching laugh tale is just a step towards his dream of becoming free by being the pirate king

And it's one adventure yes. But not the final one. So I doubt he's overthinking it like that

[amber oar]

He'll get there first, then decide

[dusky acorn]

Oh no, sorry you guys. The thing is, we don't want this channel's pins to merely be an archive of random people's masterful theories across the web. Instead, they should only be original ones that were home-brewed by members of this server. It's done this way not only so that the original authors can come back and respond to any future critique/discussion that may come up about the theories on a moment's notice, but also for us to have our own sort of unique style.
(As a side note, preferably the theory should be written out just plainly on discord as well. But if you're the original writer it's still fine to have it linked from elsewhere to potentially be qualified, which is what Su Long Bepo's did.)
Hope that clears everything up! @ancient vault @supple nimbus

[zinc iris]

Tfw my best theory was split into several posts so I can't have a neat pin

[dusky acorn]

Oh, which post was it originally? I could check it out and see how good it is, and if there's not many messages in between I could also delete those ones to make it fully connected for you

Unless there's like, actual dozens of messages in between I wouldn't feel good deleting that many lol

You could probably repost it sometime anyway though

[supple nimbus]

Ohh okay, I thought as much! Thank you!

[zinc iris]

It's almost pointless because it has basically been confirmed already, but it was this
#manga-theories message

[dusky acorn]

Oh cool hypothesis, nice job connecting that even before the Shimotsuki SBS came out by Oda. But yeah.. I do think it's already heavily implied at this point, or else why go through the trouble of directly connecting Koushiro's family to the clan? There's only so many possible Shimotsuki figures left, and it's not like people such as Ushimaru and Yasuie even matter that much anymore

Also just going to add, if Ryuma's descendant ever will be important, it fits to Koushiro's family since they're good swordsmen themselves, and in a certain position of status among their group. It would basically mean Ryuma's stature during his lifetime alone was able to carry over and allow his future generations to thrive (Kozaburo being a master swordsmith, swordsman and leader of the expedition out of Wano, while Koushiro now a dojo master.)

I'm not quite sure how Zoro would come to learn of this during Wano exactly, maybe Onimaru tells him? But it ties in with the theme of carrying wills as you say.

[zinc iris]

it doesn't really need to be something that zoro has to find out but something more for the audience

[fathom matrix]

Here's a sad idea....what if there was a joke....like I'm not kidding. What if there was a joke, good, bad, edgy, ironic, anything, that had a lot of meaning, but it's so impactful, you can't help but laugh?

[zinc iris]

kinda like usopp being the "worthy" successor of montblanc noland is not something he has to realize in-story but something more for ironic narration