manga-theories

[dark palm]

Yes, I would blame them.

Especially if the reveal is legitimately satisfactory and meaningful. People are too quick to use the pedestal.

[tired osprey]

Youre not wrong juba but i cant help to feel that way lol, ill try to be as open minded as possible when it gets revealed tho

[pastel summit]

I think conceptually, using the memory of someone who died in order to motivate a specific outcome is cheap. I think it'd be different if this was genuinely a figment of their imagination, and they simultaneously conjured up what Oden would say in this situation, but someone else masquerading as Oden, I don't think is really in good taste.

[quartz zenith]

Just discard all opinions until the Arc is over and ppl have done a proper reread.

[gloomy latch]

Trying to work out what would be the last arcs after Wano I've got Elbaf (Usopp/Shanks arc), Hachinosu Island/Blackbeard, Lodestar Island (If they don't skip it), Laugh Tale, Mary Geoise/Red Line Destruction (Don't see any other way of Luffy being the one to destroy Fishman island lol)/Laboon/All Blue, Return to East Blue/Lougetown. Fin would that be it

[outer galleon]

and that's the only right approach

[quartz zenith]

Yea until then its all conjecture and memes

[dark palm]

I think that entirely depends on the context and your own interpretation of how a dead character should be dealt with. We will see, but I fear that some will call it “cheap” no matter what.

[gloomy latch]

Sorry if I have the wrong channel wasn't sure whether to put this in spoilers as it is a theory on what will come after

[dark palm]

I would, if I didn’t have to see them all day 🙃

You’re good magician we’re just in a discussion

[quartz zenith]

Be a ruthless dictator and delete bad opinions until they do a reread. Excersize Authority.

[gloomy latch]

yeah thought so sorry for butting in I'll come back later lol

[pastel summit]

Well I mean, to me, no matter what, it'll feel like something unearned and done in poor taste, if this is done in earnest, and if it's either immediately exposed or pulled off as a gag, then that to me, is the definition of it being cheap in order to just be a shocking cliffhanger. so yeah, I will still most likely call it cheap. I cannot fathom a way in which it is not. but we'll see if Oda can pull something I really genuinely cannot think of.

[dark palm]

It won’t be a gag, that’s for sure

[tired osprey]

Toki shenanigans is the way

[dark palm]

But yeah, I think you’re too hard-lined on this

We’ll just see man, I urge you go go in with an open mind

[tired osprey]

Oda cant be leaving us hanging on this, I need to know who that Oden is next chapter

[weary cliff]

I want to be pleasantly surprised, just afraid I won't be. I think it's a common fear

[tired osprey]

Its a pretty big deal, so I hope Oda had this planned for a while and he didnt just come up with this out of the blue for shock value

[dark palm]

I cannot see a way he didn’t plan this

[weary cliff]

And that is the most comforting part of all this debating. Oda surely has a plan

[sinful wedge]

I feel like whatever it is should be resolved in the next chapter

Since we've been building up to the scabbards' side of things for around 4 chapters now

[pastel summit]

Well, let's see. I'll go through a possible line of logic here. The first thing is, how are you convincing the scabbards to listen to you, when you're obviously not who you're posing as? That's already to me, doing something in bad faith. We have to get over this hurdle. The scabbards saw Oden die, so you have to convince them that this is truly Oden, which means some BS explanation for how he is here. If there's not a legitimate explanation, it'll already feel contrived if the scabbards just buy that this is Oden because he looks and talks like him. Then we have to get a purpose for whoever is masquerading as Oden that doesn't feel like they are purely using the emotional weight of Oden's presence in order to obtain a desired outcome, unless that outcome is deliberately malicious e.g. kanjuro ink clone trying to lure the scabbards into a trap or something. If it is something done maliciously, then this may actually be good, as long as you can explain why something wasn't done to them while they were unconscious, but if it's not, then idk if the ends really justify the means here. Unless it was specifically something Oden himself willed, and not someone else using his memory, then I personally, don't see how it's going to be good.

This is just me personally.

[dark palm]

I think the disconnect in our opinions comes from you believing that someone “using” Oden is morally reprehensible and cruel no matter the circumstances, while I think it could be meaningful and beneficial in certain contexts. I wonder how much more we can even talk about this lol

[pastel summit]

yes, that is my fundamental issue with this lol.

[dark palm]

Yes... and additionally I don’t see why something HAS to be moral in the context of saving their lives.

[pastel summit]

Even if there are good motives behind it, it doesn't feel good. It's not something that should be done if there are other options.

because them fighting to their deaths is something they signed themselves up for? Why are you the arbiter of their lives? There are countless others who have died already, if you were so opposed to people dying, then speak up against the war in the first place.

Whoever this person is, if they've come posing as Oden to tell them to not fight, they have also risked their life just to tell others not to do the same. Assuming that this is done with the intention of saving them.

[copper frost]

they were already intending to go fight yet again, they were ready to head out when this "Oden" came in and confronted them, the shock just hit them. In the most likely scenario, if its done with an altruistic intention, I wouldn't see a problem with them being able to question the veracity of this Oden and how they obtained the form of their lord who they saw dying in order to save them. Whether it be altruistic or malicious, there's no doubt they would be able to discern the danger or the well intentioned nature of the person

[dark palm]

There are countless others who have died already, if you were so opposed to people dying, then speak up against the war in the first place.

This just isn’t possible due to the nature of the plan. And it’s less about being the “arbiter of their lives”, more that their deaths are literally guaranteed in said hypothetical if they go out in fight (if this is the case it won’t be portrayed in any other way). And regarding the “risking their life” part, it’s once again not really about that. I don’t think they went into treating them expecting to say “you can’t fight any further”, it seems more like it’d be something they’d arrive at and in a last ditch effort act on. Ping me with your next response

[pastel summit]

I mean, I don't necessarily think their deaths would be guaranteed if they went to the live floor and fought with the rest of the samurai. Their deaths would be guaranteed if they stayed there, due to Jack coming, but I doubt the person in question knows that. Like, these are still some of the strongest samurai here, even injured, they are a force to be reckoned with. We see this with Hyogoro as well. I think if this was a last minute thing, then maybe it'd be okay? It'd still feel cheap in the sense that Oden's presence still would feel as if it was largely used just to create this cliffhanger. I don't think there's really a context which necessitates fabricating such an elaborate story of why Oden is even alive in the first place (assuming they are trying to convince the scabbards that this is truly Oden). Like, why not do that yourself?
If we're assuming that this is Hiyori and Onimaru, since I think these are the only people who would be invested in saving the scabbards, I don't think that Hiyori using Oden to accomplish this just so she can hide is really that great. If the reason is she doesn't want to be a physical burden, why is she trying to convince others that they will be, and therefore should do nothing? Comes off as hypocritical. Especially if we're going with your theory on why she is here in the first place, that emotion should be one she completely understands.
Maybe that's the intention. If we're going to explore the hypocrisy of that action, and maybe some kind of internal conflict, it could be good, depending on how Oda handles it. This is all still just ignoring the biggest hurdle imo, which is how are the scabbards ever going to be convinced this is actually Oden? Which is a pretty big issue. I do think most of the motivations for it probably aren't that great, but the big thing for me is, why are the scabbards buying it? They should be just as sceptical as us, if not moreso.

If it's just them being overcome by emotion and failing to rationalize the situation here (which I highly doubt, considering kawamatsu was seemingly able to understand that it's not really a logical situation, though kinemon did have an immediate emotional response), then I think the point that these guys are still really incapacitated and unable to fight to any degree, should really be hammered home in order to justify them not being on the battlefield, because that becomes exactly why this would feel cheap. However, given that they got up pretty swiftly, idk if that'll be the case that they're so beat up they can't even fight some of these fodder waiters or pleasures.
Also, this is just my headcanon, but with the way the battlefield is shifting right now, pleasures and waiters turning, and the gifters being converted by tama, I don't think the scabbards will really just be chilling in a room healing as the battle shifts and probably ends. That feels kinda underwhelming. The whole situation there is kinda messy. If the scabbards can't fight, then it's up to "Oden" to defend against Jack, and if that's really Onimaru, idk if he can really handle that, so then there's probably going to be another person up there helping to fight off Jack, and they will likely interact with the scabbards, so it brings into question of what is the point.

[ancient vault]

paragraph no jutsu

[pastel summit]

well, I think he went to sleep anyway which is why he asked me to ping him with the response.

he will wake up, and ping me with a response, by which point, I will also be asleep.

[ancient vault]

In regards to the other stuff

I also agree with you that Kanjuro's character role should not turn into some sort of redemption. THat really isnt what this arc is about and nor was that ever hinted at

[stray pilot]

Enel is a celestial dragon

[ancient vault]

As well as using Odens image like this feels very cheap to me but well I think its better than the real Oden appearing

[ancient vault]

But they got absolutely destroyed by Kaido. They shouldnt be able to fight again for at least some more time but well I guess hiyori healed them

[pastel summit]

They sure did. they're healed enough to the point where they can move. maybe if it was shown that they're limping or something, I could buy that they shouldn't be fighting

but still would feel cheap to use Oden just to say something like that.

but like, with the battlefield shifting and the waiters and pleasures turning sides, and the gifters slowly being converted by Tama, I don't think the scabbards place is waiting in some room, healing. Like, from a narrative standpoint, that's lame. This becomes an entirely different discussion though

[last halo]

I think it could turn into an "unrecognized redemption". Like, he does something good and impactful on the war, but he still dies and no one knows he did the good thing.

[pastel summit]

that's a really weird conclusion to his character arc, and feels kinda forced.

Oda would still be trying to redeem his character by making him do something good.

despite the fact that the last thing he did was gloat about beating up a child.

[ancient vault]

I like my own theory of him comitting seppuku

At the end of the war because there is no orochi anymore

Also what choc said

[sinful wedge]

For everyone who's in the Orochi dead camp, what are your thoughts on Fukurokuju's current status?

[pastel summit]

no idea. maybe he tried to run away

[last halo]

To me, Orochi and Kanjuro dying like they supposedly did is bad. Mainly because the Kurozumi were persecuted, and the both of them are victims of their clan's past. I think Oda would definitely try to redeem the clan somehow, and Kanjuro is the best option

[pastel summit]

alternatively, he saw CP0 and is looking for them.

[craggy pumice]

well he could try getting Orocohis df but idk how he would know how to do it

[ancient vault]

Dont think at all Orochi is dead

[sinful wedge]

Same

[pastel summit]

Idk where Fukurokuju's plot line is going, but honestly, idk if it's going to be terribly relevant. Maybe we get shinobu vs fukurokuju or something?

[sinful wedge]

or vs Raizo

[pastel summit]

yeah. could be vs raizo as well

depends on what the scabbards are going to be doing after this.

[sinful wedge]

Yeah that's what I've been thinking a lot during this break

I have my doubts if they are just going to assist the SHs in their fights vs the flying 6

[last halo]

Kanjuro spent his life with the Scabbards. As much as he was an actor, he definitely developed feelings for them. So I can see him doing something good and dying right after, with seppuku being the perfect outcome.

[pastel summit]

One possibility that went through my head was that the scabbards would fight the flying 6, and tell the strawhats to go up to the roof or something. but there's a lot happening. we still have no idea who is going to be stopping Jack. It could be Sanji, it could be "Oden", it could be even the scabbards themselves, if they're well enough to fight.

[ancient vault]

Sasaki vs Denjiro

[sinful wedge]

and Franky?

[ancient vault]

Roof to test out his new anti yonko weapons

[sinful wedge]

Probably

But I think Oda has locked these matchups and interrupting them now would feel a bit off

[ancient vault]

I always wanted a full Strawhat line up vs the yonkos (Also the opening wouldve spoiled it again )

[craggy pumice]

idk at this point Franky just beating Sasaki and Robin Maria would be cooler

[sinful wedge]

Especially if you go with that theory of Sasaki being Kokoro's son

[ancient vault]

I think Brook alone has a good place up there

[sinful wedge]

exactly

[pastel summit]

robin vs maria is probably still happening imo, but franky vs sasaki and jinbei vs who's who I think really... don't matter lmao.

[ancient vault]

Pretty sure that kokoro theory got debunked here

[craggy pumice]

Brook could be a great help against Big Mom

[sinful wedge]

Wasn't aware of that

[ancient vault]

It didnt go in line with the ages of sasaki and kokoro

[craggy pumice]

why?

[last halo]

There's also the chance Tama is a Kurozumi, which would be the perfect redemption for the clan. We might discover this after the war, people will try to attack Tama and Momo will defend her while giving a speech about how "This whole thing started because we attacked Kurozumi children due to their ancestors actions"

[craggy pumice]

Sasaki is 34 and Kokoro like 70

[sinful wedge]

Oh yeah seeing them now, pretty improbable

Kokoro is 48

[ancient vault]

No its not just the ages but what happened to kokoros son and around what time let me look for the discussion

[craggy pumice]

I am sure Kokoro is older than 48

[ancient vault]

Nah we already know kokoro had a son. Thats canon

[pastel summit]

I do think you should give ch. 985 a reread if you think Kanjuro really has some kind of positive feelings for the scabbards. There's literally no reason for him to do anything like he did there if he did. He was acting on his own there.

[ancient vault]

And shes 70, YC is right

[sinful wedge]

Ah damn google, so how's it debunked?

[ancient vault]

#manga-theories message

Probably debunked isnt the right word (ig noone went out of his way to properly do so) but they were some arguments brought up here for sasaki being kokoros son making no sense

[sinful wedge]

That's a great catch

The only way it could make sense is if Sasaki was some rebel like Sabo who wanted to set sail at at an extremely young age

[pastel summit]

which still doesn't make sense as to how Chimney is with Kokoro then lol

[acoustic helm]

New gear?

[sinful wedge]

Yeah that like poster said, it can be explained if Chimney was just adopted from somewhere and is completely unrelated to Sasaki lol

[pastel summit]

yeah but she is confirmed 1/4 fishman

so that would be really contrived to pull that plotline that they happened to adopt a 1/4 fishman girl

[sinful wedge]

Agreed

[hallow spoke]

That pretty sick

[acoustic helm]

Yeah

[hallow spoke]

Kinda reminds me of the monkey king

[acoustic helm]

Yeah

[pastel summit]

no

[acoustic helm]

Luffy's gear3 red roc ,koido shocked
Luffy gears 4 hits with everything, koido this is fun.

[hallow spoke]

Check your dms I sent you a similar picture

[craggy pumice]

[acoustic helm]

Wano goes 1040- 1060 brrr

[craggy pumice]

I guess more in direction of 1040

[acoustic helm]

Later will normal chapter

1040 for war easy

[pastel summit]

you think so? I think it'll end a lot sooner.

I think we'll probably be out of wano by 1030, maybe 1035.

[acoustic helm]

Don't know act 3 ain't ending yet

[pastel summit]

doesn't really matter when act 3 ends though. could only be 3 acts.

[dull pumice]

1030

[lyric dust]

!act3

[lone hedge]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/164971940648321024/812008302815739914/Untitled-12.png

[jade solar]

1050
I'm getting bored of Wano I want to watch Elbaf now 😅

[thick sky]

1037!!!

[craggy pumice]

yeah neko

30 chapters from now is what I'd guess too

[thick sky]

btw that was my roll no at school years ago 😅

[lone plaza]

act 3 has been a bit longer than i expected

but makes sense since it’s always the climax of kabuki plays

so they should win the battle act 4

[thick sky]

But for 30 chapters, most of them would cover flying six, calamities and strategic aspects

[lone plaza]

and act 5 should just be a conclusion

[thick sky]

Could be finished in act 4 too, right?

[lone plaza]

i’m just waiting for reverie arc to come back🤣

[lone plaza]

if oda decides to

[thick sky]

Need to find some stuff that oda has watched or read, to know what he may draw inspiration from

[last halo]

I've seen people say Kabuki plays with 3-4 acts are way more common than with 5

[dusky acorn]

Even if Urouge has a grudge over Enel, it doesn't mean he's been able to keep constant tabs on the happenings of sky islands around the world, especially not in islands still hovering way back over Paradise when he's in the New World.

For people in the skies, news doesn't travel between islands much. If we're to take Conis as a prime example, she not only had no clue what Enel did to Birka, but she didn't even know what Birka was in the first place.

Although, even if Urouge somehow did learn Enel was already defeated during the time-skip, it doesn't mean Urouge has to settle for that and defect away from Blackbeard on a whim just because his deeper reason for joining became lessened.
Regardless, Urouge could still want to get revenge on Enel with his and the rest of the Blackbeard Pirates own two hands.

Don't get me wrong though, it's not to say Blackbeard would be so selfless to the point where he'd go out of his way to defeat Enel just for him, but it's likely that if Urouge asked Blackbeard about that kind of condition of paying Enel a visit someday while joining his crew, then Blackbeard would probably agree even if not truly caring about it, just to get another strong member on his crew. He could just be using Urouge for his cause at the end of the day.

[upbeat wasp]

what if black bread send Catarina Devon to wano and she turn into Oden. just to get them back into the battle so kaido lose the battle. like a 1% of that but seem like something BB would do to get big players remove without being seen.

or was it that she only turn into female

[thick sky]

abaslom wasn't female

[thick sky]

chances are too low. I have looked into that angle for too many times

[upbeat wasp]

then the only thing that left is the art guy did it or he a ghost powered by haki. jk on the haki part but be funny seeing kaido lose his mind over seeing him just standing there... menacingly

[ancient vault]

Does anyone here have an idea on what the island with Bege before the timeskip was?

[pure raven]

I don't think it was named at all?

[hollow loom]

Ye

Can kanjuro draw oden that correctly isn't he bad at drawing

[pure raven]

No, the bad drawing was an act. The fake Kanjuro on the boat was a perfect replica and he could talk.

[hollow loom]

Ooo

O didn't catch up yet so yeah ig I didn't know

[queen arrow]

then why are you here and asking about most recent chapter stuff?

[ancient vault]

lots of ppl got spoiled on this stuff and they come here to ask because theyre curious

[pure raven]

btw, do we know how many World Nobles there are in total? Is it a handful or families or is it 30/40/50+?

[ancient vault]

We know there were 19 families about 800 years ago

[pure raven]

And we've only seen 3/4 so far?

[ancient vault]

Named ones at least yes I think so

[pure raven]

Donquixote, Rosward, Charlos and Sharla's family and Jalmack (guy who shot Sabo)

[ancient vault]

WWe're gonna see a lot more in the Rocks flashback

[pure raven]

lol yeah probably. What's the most common theory on Kuma giving himself up for experiments btw? Curious

[ancient vault]

No idea have never heard of a good one

[versed hamlet]

Probably wanted to save someone or something

Who or what that is and for what reason i dont have a clue

[solar steppe]

after wano im sure they will go straight to where sabo is

[amber oar]

The official answer was that Kuma was made a case of for being a "tyrant king"

Change "tyrant" by "rebellious against the WG" and that makes a lot more of sense. Probably was threatened to wipe out Sorbet

[amber oar]

it's Luffy's vivre card, not Sabo's

[solar steppe]

o right i forgot sabo made it

[kind gate]

Do you guys here think luffy will use any new gear 4 forms on the roof before presenting a gear 5 in wano

[sharp cape]

for sure man

[craggy pumice]

I'm not even sure if he will present Gear 5

[hazy wing]

It all depends on oda dude

[junior shoal]

i think he needs to master gear 4 i.e. use it without any repercussion before lvl 5

[craggy pumice]

that would be cool

[kind gate]

I feel like he would. I don’t think there’s a way to use that much haki without any repercussions

[pure raven]

Doubt, too much time

[kind gate]

Yh maybe he just goes gear 5 at this point

[pure raven]

I don't think just yet, but soon ™️. They'll probably go toe-to-toe for a while like the fight vs lucci where he just went into gear 2 gear 3 randomly

Then at the end he'll pull it out and the final move'll be the KO? I guess

[kind gate]

It seems like he’s already mastered gear 4 enough. I mean he’s able to go in and out now and prolly was only drained because he’s using this new advanced ryou technique

Hope law shows out

[craggy pumice]

feel like the new form of using armament could actually help him overcoming the timeout because Hyo said he would use hidden armament from his body, or save armament at other spots

[kind gate]

Is Kaido more durable in dragon form¿
Would he be able to use clouds fr attacks now¿
And potentially breathe fire while attacking now ¿

[pure raven]

We really can't say until we compare, but I think it's only fair for his dragon form to be far more durable. They can't pierce his scales except for a very limited number of people in general. Atleast as a human/hybrid, he's got skin.

Can't really say or theorycraft about the other two. no idea. But yeah, everyone managed to stab him (Scabbards when he presented the New Onigashima Project) while he was human, but even Law and Zolo have trouble stabbing him in dragon form

[hazy wing]

what i dont get is if his df is fish carp then how the hell can he go into dragon form

[pure raven]

It's that one legend thing of the carp swimming up a waterfall and transforming into a dragon I guess

[kind gate]

Zoro won’t be able to rely on just enma and would probably have to utilize his haki the same way with his other two swords

[molten lotus]

The carp that went up the waterfall became a Dragon, that's the legend and Gyarados is based on that as well

[hazy wing]

couldnt they just name it dragon model

or does that mean dragon needs awakening

[pure raven]

Maybe it's time for Zolo to open his sharingan? jk, but my currently theory about the climax of Wano is that the opening shot with the whole crew vs Kaido is gonna turn true. I think we'll handle all the fights before we get the rooftop's finality, and at the end, all of the crew'll go up to the rooftop. Luffy'll get the last blow for sure, but still.

[digital horizon]

I dont remember where I read the explanation but the word for dragon in Japanese ryuu is more associated with dinosaurs which is why it's been used for the dinosaur fruits. Calling kaido's a fish fruit is more to separate it from the dinosaur fruits

[pure raven]

This shot, I mean, btw.

[kind gate]

I doubt Usopp and em can stand in front of Kaido plus they’d be tired and drained from their fights

[kind gate]

I know but it’s the anime

[pure raven]

yeah true lol, but the shot of Luffy tanking Kaido's flames did make it into the manga. It's just a nice lil piece of headcanon I wanna see 😔

[kind gate]

Imagine luffy awakens his fruit and can use a rubber haki sword

[kind gate]

Yh

[pure raven]

The chances of everyone making it to the roof are decent. It'll be typical shounen to have that kinda panel where all the straw hats stand before Kaido

Yeah plus they haven't been together for AGES

I also think it's interesting that Jinbe isn't there in the anime. Wait nvm it's because anime watchers don't know he's in Wano yet lol

[pure raven]

This is wrong

[pure raven]

I know but I mean besides this v

[kind gate]

U think Zoro will try to hold Kaido off for luffy but will get frustrated and be like why did we come here just to lose or something?
Then maybe as Kaido is about to Zoro luffy will show us something new

[thick sky]

Reddit, reddit, reddit

[verbal yew]

Ok bring Oden to the future for a limited time could work but Oda is really playing with fire here. I like time traveling because it could be fun but it’s can also just break the entire story. It explain why Oden “believed” Kaidos word and how he know about the scabbards.

[polar bison]

his actual fruit model is seiryuu, which literally translates as blue dragon. he is 100% dragon to the core. the only reason he has the fish fish fruit is that’s how mythicals work. fish are the closest normal analogue to a seiryuu. it’s no different from catarina having a dog dog fruit even tho she’s a kitsune.

[lavish forum]

do yall think the oden is actually the real oden but its the past oden that came to the future with the time time fruit?

[high portal]

ok, I've come to the conclusion that its Kanjuro, like 95% sure its kanjuro

if we look at the carfax, it tells us some things. If its not actually Oden and is an Oden imitation, the imitator has to know the mannerisms and talk patterns of Oden and Toki, they must be present specifically on Onigashimia, and they must have known Oden/Toki for long enough to know what they look like, the only person that's matches everything is Kanjuro

[verbal yew]

I really hope it’s not the real Oden. It would make his death meaningless. also 

but why would kanjuro want to draw Oden?

[queen arrow]

to get the scabbards by surprise

[high portal]

it can't be Onimaru because we know at best right now that Onimaru only has a devil fruit that can transform it into a human, but no multiple humans, Bon Clay and Catarine Devon are such a massive stretch that its silly to even mention it, and Bunbuku although heavily hinted, doesn't really make any sense unless we've seen Bunbuku interact with Oden

keep in mind, in the original Japanese, Oden has his signature talking style in 1007, so if it is a replica, its a damn good one and I don't think animals could imitate that well

[high portal]

honestly, I don't know, that's the one major hole in this. The best explanation I have is kind of an Usopp situation, but that's still a stretch and it kinda defeats Kanjuro's character

[kind gate]

It wouldn’t work cus then it would make oden go into an alternate timeline

[pure raven]

ok

[kind gate]

¿

[weary cliff]

We know nothing about the source/extent of onimaru's ability. Devon has the kitsune fruit. Assuming mythical zoans copy mythical creatures that really exist, then onimaru could just be a kitsune with all the powers of her fruit.

The biggest point I've seen against him is that the only forms we've seen him take have obvious swirly eye marks

[karmic quail]

i think luffy dead

[cyan berry]

:)

[queen arrow]

damn Youss was faster

[karmic quail]

im french so i cant speak english with good level

[brisk mirage]

I like this very serious theory

[dusky acorn]

The one clue we do have is that the island has a slight chance to have either been Risky Red Island or Mystoria Island, as these are the other two islands a pirate in the New World can set out to at first. (I think the latter sounds like a more likely island name for what Bege went to) Consequently, they also have less bumpy log poses compared to Raijin.

Dadil even if you can't speak English well, please do try elaborating on any prediction you have in here, else it just comes off as a shitpost, especially when they're outlandish guesses like that.

[pure raven]

There have been theories about luffy dying and Law having to resurrect him. The stakes are not high enough.. we are fighting two Yonko IN yonko territory. I feel like Oda is putting us all into a lullaby before we get the hard punch in the gut by killing someone we care about.

[queen arrow]

Law can't ressurect the dead

[pure raven]

Thanks for pointing it out. He can only make someone immortal.

[queen arrow]

not exactly "immortal", it's more like "ageless"

[pure raven]

E t e r n a l Y o u t h

[mystic crown]

I think he thinks Luffy will die

[verbal yew]

And there’s the problem with time traveling. It could be a time copy kinda like a recording or like how a picture can preserve the past. So Oden is there to give them a pep talk and maybe a hint on how to bring Kaido down. 

[kind gate]

I would love older wisdom but it might not happen

[verbal yew]

Is Oda pulling the force ghost card. 

[gusty needle]

The oden appearance is also related to the scabbards healing. My hunch is oden is most likely not a villain. The whole thing is most likely tied to Hyori who went MIA after offering Zoro Enma. It was probably Hyori or Toki who healed the scabbards last chapter. If it was Hyori she may have acquired some ability or power related to why Toki didn’t send her to the future.

[pure raven]

Wasn't there a Yamato theory about the octopus a while back?

@oblique ermine #manga-theories message

[pliant swallow]

inb4 it's just a group hallucination and they're actually all dying and sharing one last moment together

[pure raven]

It's really not something I've given much thought but I did enjoy the vivre card being lost and Yamato being able to monitor Luffy's movements so she could meet him.

[dusky acorn]

Since two people have brought it up in the last 10 minutes, I guess I'll just say my last piece on them seeing Oden's spirit or whateever
Just earlier in this arc, the whole idea of seeing ghosts was made into a complete gag by Law with Kinemon and the Scabbards graves because even Oda knows how ridiculous it is to put in his story.
I highly doubt the reason for this Oden appearing is for the same thing that's already been chalked up to a heavy satire beforehand (Because this time around it's very clearly a serious development)

[kind gate]

This is a very good take thanks for enlightening me

[dusky acorn]

Also I agree that if this Oden is connected to Hiyori, it has more of a chance to be some actual good guy. Especially since Jack is already looming onto them, so having another baddie in their midst wouldn't make for that unique of a development. Who knows though, if it's an evil "Oden" then making this situation as dire as possible for Yamato/Sanji to have to step in could also be what's being gone for here

[dark palm]

In regards to their deaths being guaranteed, she could have noticed particularly deep wounds or something else that would cause for immediate internal damage, like a hemorrhage. Bandages and whatever medical solution she brought would stabilize their condition, but wouldn't prevent the internal bleeding from taking its toll. That's what I'm trying to say in this case, that it'd have to be something she knows FOR SURE will happen if they go out there, which could theoretically set up their deaths in the future of the arc; Jack is coming after all, and will throw this all into turmoil anyways. About her being a burden yet telling them not to go out there, it's less about her not wanting them to burden other people, it's about her wanting them to not throw their lives away. I think you said earlier that Hiyori being there is then hypocritical, as she's technically taking a risk by being at the raid, but it's less her request as a person, and more her request as someone who treated them. I think by revealing herself in this case, she would be burdening them even further while ALSO making the point she's trying to emphasize of them staying inside moot. As if she leaves while telling them to stay inside, they just won't listen to her, and they'll insist on protecting her despite what she said.

Now the main thing, I don't think they'll actually believe it's Oden at first, and that they'll remain skeptical until Odenmaru leaves the room. As a result, they'll consider his words, and at least have a discourse about what just happened and if they should follow said advice. I ultimately believe they'll land on "yes", as the Oden figure is more to force them to reach this sure-death realization themselves. Then, as you asked, what's the point? I mean, what's the point of any of these options really? Jack is on the way and is going to force them out of the room anyways imo, so like, why go through all this trouble? That's why I'm emphasizing Hiyori so heavily in this, as it's for HER character. She believes this is the right thing to do and is so desperate to do said thing that she would bring about a visage of her father. It could also serve to directly foreshadow their deaths later in the arc, something I've believed will indeed happen. And as a main point, it carries over the tragic realization of "your deaths would hurt Wano greatly", something that could get re-emphasized when they die, and peak the emotional tension. All in all I have no fucking clue anymore, we'll see lmao. Imagine it's just none of these options... gosh

[karmic quail]

sorry but for me for real you look neptune franky burn it but he remember then and the sunny is neptune

[dark palm]

[pulsar minnow]

you mean Pluton?

[versed hamlet]

ohh are you saying that franky made sunny into pluton ?

[pulsar minnow]

I highly doubt that's the case

[versed hamlet]

i am just trying to figure out what that msg is saying

[kind gate]

interesting but what would happen to the leadership of wano and everything if the scabbards die, maybe momo and tama become apprentices and yamato joins them. who would lead the rest of wano maybe hygoro and the other chiefs? Also do you see the possibilities for a ship upgrade in wano, like making it bigger?

[pulsar minnow]

Yeah Ik that message was confusing

[acoustic helm]

One week more and all should be clear

[kind gate]

Amen

[pure raven]

Assuming they explain what happened. lol. I still think they won't break disguise until the end of the raid.

[acoustic helm]

Nightmare

[pure raven]

Otherwise what was the point of the disguise if they immediately reveal it? If it's an enemy, they might lead them on until the arc's over, and then reveal themselves.

[acoustic helm]

Hard for me.to.hold my senses then

[brisk mirage]

Oda always puts breaks after the most cliffhanger chapter endings. The resulting fan base rage and impatience is what nourishes him.

[pliant swallow]

That or he uses the break tactically and waits for a good theory and he's like "hmm that's a good idea I'll use that one"

/s

[weary cliff]

Quite literally. It's good business to rile up the fans and get OP trending on social media. More awareness leads to more engagement leads to more donuts in Oda's mouth

[hazy sapphire]

shanks is rogers wife’s brother so he is ace’s uncle and rogers brother in law

[random yacht]

smh no he is rogers wife's brother's son so he is ace's cousin and rogers nephew in law

[dusky acorn]

You guys can keep these random familial relation memes out of here you know.

[dusky acorn]

But nah, if the Scabbards were to die, this actually lessens Momo's chances to become an apprentice. It only means with less potential retainers for the country, he'd have an even bigger burden to carry and the country would need Momo as Shogun that much more.

[brisk mirage]

So Oda's self insert in the OP universe is Katakuri?

[kind gate]

true

[last halo]

I really don't see Momo or Tama joining, they are just too young

If the crew were to get an apprentice, it should be someone like 12-15 years old with an OP devil fruit. Young enough to be an apprentice but old enough to not be a total liability

[odd lichen]

Kanjuro is helping Jack to kill Red Scabbards.

[dusky acorn]

Not sure if this is what you're implying, but if we're to say Kanjuro is potentially responsible for this new Oden figure, he wouldn't be doing it while in direct contact with Jack. I don't believe the two even know each other.
Basically, if Kanjuro who is somehow alive and Jack are both homed in on the scabbards with the same goals, it would be due to inadvertent circumstances

Since Bao Huang set the Scabbards up as a general beacon of interest for any enemy to get to, as her message was relayed to the Marys

[pastel summit]

if they remain skeptical then it circles back to this "Oden" still being used for a shock factor cliffhanger. I also don't think the scabbards would be so obsessed over protecting her. they haven't even considered momo's safety because he directly told them not to worry. hiyori also told them the same thing through kawamatsu, I believe if she was there in person and told them not to worry, they would not, especially if she has some way of protecting herself, which I assume she does, else she will be in trouble if she's ever caught considering no one even knows she is there. I really think you're underestimating hiyori's own power in this, or you're suggesting hiyori thinks no one would ever listen to her, despite the fact the scabbards definitely would, just as they listened to momo. what makes it hypocritical is "her" telling them not to fight, while understanding that the reason she is even there in the first place is the same emotion which compels them to fight despite being injured. and if they are suffering from lethal wounds then I don't think leaving them instead of trying to fully heal them is really that great. but yeah, this is just gonna circle back to motivations for hiyori even being here in the first place so we'll just have to wait and see how all this unfolds and if any of these assumptions are correct. could be fucking enel and devon instead of hiyori and onimaru

[warped wagon]

That would be pretty funny, if its really Enel and Devon and Enel was caring about the scabbards because of something he learned on the moon lol

[thick sky]

especially if she has some way of protecting herself, which I assume she does,
if she had, she could have used it against Hitokiri Kamazo

[pastel summit]

well, I'm more referring to the fact she probably brought Onimaru to Onigashima in order for him to protect her.

as in, he is her form of protection. at least from the masses. if someone strong sees them, then I don't think onimaru is doing much

[green roost]

what choc has been saying i cant help but feel is just too big of a weirdness in this theory , choc is right to an extent, i do like juba's theory but because of the motivations it makes me lean more toward kanjuro possibility, because if the fake oden is not a good guy it makes justification for them being oden so much more easier. however, i still think the shadow is hiyori no matter what

[median slate]

yo have you guys heard the pirate queen theory?

[thick sky]

hiyori having battle-oriented df is a straight no, considering the interaction with Kamazo. She could have non-battle df, which could be healing or something

[green roost]

if hiyori had anything i would expect it to be toki's devil fruit itself

[pastel summit]

I don't think she has a DF, like you said, she should've used it in some form when they were being attacked by Kamazo, but I think either she somehow got a hold of the mansion plans, or she's been invited there enough times she knows the layout and knows the safer areas, or she's using onimaru as a form of protection while she... does stuff? or most likely both.

[green roost]

yeah, i dont think she has a df either, if she had one, i would only think of toki's, but im sure she has nothing. i dont think her as the shadow was working with fake oden

i think fake oden arrived by coincidence after because the announcement already told where the scabbards were

[pastel summit]

idk if the "Oden" is Kanjuro. It definitely could be. Like, Kanjuro can't move, so he sent an ink drawing in his place, but even his ink drawings are still pretty strong, so if he wanted to kill them with his ink, he could've. so it'd have to be some really sadistic motive for it to be kanjuro drawing here.

[green roost]

we know kanjuro drawings can talk and be decapitated and still function, just as an aside. when they cut fake kanjuro on the boat, his speech bubbles continued from it, and he didnt dissolve into ink right away

a fake oden drawing could probably sound like him and have a voice, and if anyone knew oden's speech patterns it would definitely be kanjuro, besides the other scabbards present

kanjuro is an actor after all, people who have to memorize lines and speech patterns etc

the motive would just be easier to create, than to spin one for onimaru appearing as oden, i do want both hiyori and onimaru to be more relevant and play a bigger role , but kanjuro would be quite juicy, especially if that motive did turn out to be sadistic af

[dark palm]

before I respond I don't think kanjuro is necessarily sadistic, or has been portrayed as sadistic enough to go to lengths like these

[pastel summit]

it could be good, but it runs into the same problems of why oden. like, the scabbards wouldn't think he's alive, so even trying to make them believe he is probably isn't gonna work or have that desired outcome

[green roost]

it could be a natural evolution of his character, you could say, because as he said he was a blank slate before, his motives can evolve especially if his motive giver is gone

(orochi)

[dark palm]

too late for that

[normal plume]

It could be some illusion ninja technique I think

[thick sky]

Most of what we know of kanjuro isn't necessarily true. We have seen him too less as a spy to know abt his real personality and the type of guy he is

[normal plume]

One of those ninja 🥷 group people

[dark palm]

the point goro

[green roost]

oh this would still remain, i would think the scabbards would eventually catch on and be wary of this oden no matter who it is, ESPECIALLY because of how duped they felt by kanjuro, who was under their nose the whole time

[dark palm]

is that he is NOTHING

additionally, kanjuro appearing is pretty redundant with jack

in terms of story impact

[green roost]

if the scabbards arent suspicious of this oden, it would be quite weird to me, due to how duped they felt by kanjuro as the traitor

even if its not kanjuro

[thick sky]

But yeah, what orochi said seem to mean that kanjuro was an empty shell following the will and order or kurozomi, or rather, orochi

[green roost]

also this fake oden, if he is kanjuro, his motive was already given before, he wanted to kidnap hiyori, and if hiyori is the shadow, hes straight up headed toward the right place

[solemn palm]

is it possible this could be the real oden and the kanjuro drawing was the one in the pot?

[green roost]

what

[green roost]

no because kanjuro revealed himself as a traitor to the scabbards in private basically, not in front of lots of people, there would have been no point to such a dramatic reveal

[thick sky]

But, juba, it opens a new path showinh that orochi might still be alive and fale oden is orochi's order to kanjuro

[pastel summit]

okay but why

[thick sky]

If thats really kanjuro and ^^^ this choc

[pastel summit]

that's not answering why

[green roost]

dont make this harder than it already is goro

[thick sky]

Ah sorry. Just pondering on a possibility

[green roost]

lmao its all good, these theories just have to be thought out perfectly or they will be littered with holes

[pastel summit]

imagine pretending to be Ace to try and convince luffy of something. you think Luffy isn't going to be immediately skeptical and think it's a fake?

[thick sky]

Ah leave it. Typing in phone is really tiring and that possibility is not worth it

[last halo]

Kanjuro accepted to join Orochi because he only sought death, or something like this

[green roost]

being fake oden should make them suspicious no matter what tho, its something the story is gonna have to jump thru as a hurdle if its riding with this fake oden thing

beyond even "having accepted oden actually died", they were duped by a close friend of theirs once already, kanjuro,m they should be wary enough to not be duped a second time

[thick sky]

This oden just makes everything difficult for the story

[dusky acorn]

I think Kanjuro would know the Scabbards aren't dumb enough to completely believe it's Oden as well. Still though, him drawing Oden to give the Scabbards a slight glimmer of hope for a minute only to surprise them with it being a drawing as a way of dishonouring Oden's name and image sounds like something he could do.
We know Kanjuro is all about having the Kozukis eliminated and drawing a faux Oden who exists only to deceive and disappear as a painting afterwards could fit that train of thought.

But as others have said, Kanjuro might not be sadistic enough to do this, but really he hasn't developed enough in his true, traitorous form for us to really confirm one way or the other on how Kanjuro would want to act.
The biggest problem is still explaining why he didn't just kill them in the 20+ minutes they were unconscious, and I guess explaining his prior death. Did he only barely get here in time?

[last halo]

For the theories*

[weak arrow]

Earl, you say that but Kinemon was already duped twice, so i guess not duped a third time

[green roost]

hes the only one thats crying, so it makes sense lmao

the others shouldnt be duped tho

or at least, present the opinion that this oden might be a fake, someone must

[weak arrow]

TBH Kanjuro's whole reveal was pretty sadistic as fuck in nature.

[dusky acorn]

But yeah that's right, Kanjuro literally tried rubbing the salt in the wound at every past deception he did to the Scabbards (Zou, Yasuie's death "being in vain", leaking the plan, etc..)

As a way to laugh in their faces

[thick sky]

Hasnt developed enough in his true traitorous form
i had the same point but kanjuro was said to be somewhat empty or something

[green roost]

i do believe that as well

[solemn palm]

Kanjuro screwed the scabbards every time he was with him. I hope this is not his drawing

[last halo]

I kinda wish his personality was the opposite to that. Like deadpan, literally no emotions. Kinda like Sai from Naruto...

[pastel summit]

probably yeah. if he was any earlier, he would've seen hiyori. Unless it's something like, he's going to kidnap hiyori in front of the scabbards, as oden.

[dusky acorn]

Oh man as unusual of a scene that sounds I would love that dude

Kanjuro said he wanted to try capturing Hiyori afterwards, would like that to come intro fruition one way or another..

[solemn palm]

Maybe this is Kanjuro using Odens face to strike the scabbards when they are at their weakest

[green roost]

my empty shell comment regarding kanjuro evolution , i pictured something like this: what happens when someone whos an empty shell and easily filled with propaganda, is constantly guided by this propaganda giver, and then this giver suddenly dies, wouldnt that empty unhinged shell try to begin filling in the gaps on his own? grow more unhinged in the process? although all this is a moot point if orochi is alive anyway...unless hes alive and hasnt contacted kanjuro yet....ugh theres so much to consider

[last halo]

They were at their weakest minutes prior

[green roost]

maybe this fake oden was doing their best to hurry, due to that, but just didnt make it in time because the shadow healed them already?

the announcement of their location came, so i imagine it was a scramble for everybody

[pastel summit]

well, kawamatsu implies he saw Oden prior to his appearance just now.

[green roost]

unless he saw "toki" lololo

[pastel summit]

so idk. I think he was waiting there.

[green roost]

again...so much to consider...

[weak arrow]

[solemn palm]

Could this be a distraction from Kanjuro to allow Jack the time to reach the room?

[weak arrow]

Not likely. Kanjuro and Jack would not be working together.

[green roost]

i would imagine if the kurozumis are alive, their goals would be: still get the kozukis, but also avoid the beast pirates now

[last halo]

I think Orochi's goal would be contacting CP0

[green roost]

depends, if he is alive he hasnt contacted them yet, so that may not be a primary goal, i bet fukurokujo helping him rn

[waxen light]

Kanjuro also gloated to the scabbards that he beat the shit out of Momo. Pretty sadistic if you ask me.

[pastel summit]

yeah he did. for sure he has a sadistic nature, gloating about beating up a child, and then creating headless samurai drawings to fight for him.

[green roost]

i just wonder if its really none of these options then wtf else could it be

[pastel summit]

Just wonder how far that extends, and what the purpose of all this still would be, if this "Oden" is a Kanjuro drawing.

and my mind just wanders back to it's some kind of gag or just a shock cliffhanger, because you don't need a proper explanation for either of those things.

[green roost]

how mad would people be if toki awakened her fruit last minute and it allowed extra function like backwards time travel or something...god...

[waxen light]

It would be the dumbest thing in the world lmao

[green roost]

yes

[waxen light]

Would probably drop OP until it finished or something. I'm already not liking this Oden cliffhanger but it is what it is.

Just wanna know wtf is going on

[green roost]

someone told me that theory today and i was like "you want this???"

it would feel contrived, oden and tokis words arent literal in that flashback, its symbolic . like oden said, hes supposed to be a story accompanied by your drinks

most of these other more prominent theories are good options, the missing pieces of logic are the parts oda would fill, cause hes more aware of his story than us obviously lol

[waxen light]

to me, it would invalidate everything Toki said about how she reached her final destination when she found Oden, how mad she got at him when he suggested she leap forward in time to save herself, etc. I just really hope it's not any Toki DF stuff going on

[green roost]

yeah i agree

[pastel summit]

I remember just posting the Hiluluk and Roger panels of them saying "I won't die" in response to someone saying Oden is alive because Toki said "who said you're going to die?" and he just said "yeah but those weren't said by their wife" and I'm like...

[green roost]

lmao, even roger said that to rayleigh

[pastel summit]

idk how the message goes over people. it's literally one of the most famous speeches in OP.

[green roost]

its a running theme , and never literal ...its like they missed the point of op

these people are for sure the same ones that expect roger himself to be waiting at laugh tale, just because he said "i wont die, brother"

[waxen light]

I'm not sure if Juba has changed his tune, but right now I'm on the Onimaru-Hiyori boat he was pushing a few days ago. I don't particularly like it, but I like it more than Kanjuro or Toki DF shenanigans.

[pastel summit]

Most people I think are the same.

[onyx light]

We dont know tokis full extent

Oda would not let a time travel devil fruit be used once in a flashback

[waxen light]

Why not?

[onyx light]

Because that's a waste

[pastel summit]

but it still doesn't answer everything. I think there are still glaring problems, even with onimaru-hiyori, but it just has less problems than others. Maybe Kanjuro could be better, but I'd have to really think about it. It already requires the assumption that the scabbards failed to kill Kanjuro which is kinda cringe to me.

[green roost]

it would be contrived for us to learn she can backwards time travel especially because she said she cant backwards time travel, any "oden projection forward then popping back" mechanic cant work

i would rather something be a waste than that same thing ruin a good arc completely

[onyx light]

Yea, has she awakened her devil fruit? See, we don't know. The facts aren't all there

[green roost]

thats too contrived to learn last minute and so backwards, we'd be learning a brand new "awakening" mechanic in the worst way possible

[waxen light]

Same. I thought his "death" scene was pretty great and I love that it was no bullshit, just out and out killed the dude. Kin just walking by and dropping his hat, no words. I really hope Oda just leaves it as is. As for Hiyori, I agree it also doesn't make any sense. I don't think if anyone pretended to be a dead relative or a friend that it would inspire me or anything. That's so sad shit.

[onyx light]

We dont even know awakenings lol. Theyre still mysterious.

[green roost]

to learn about a new way a fruit can awaken like this would be pretty bad , and it would FEEL bad because of all the things oden said

he would have to go up to the scabbards be like "yeahhh forget everything i said 20 years ago...oopsie"

[onyx light]

Having this oden being an illusion or transformation would be a waste. Oden, who has a legendary backflash, who rode on whitebeard AND Roger's ship, is reduced to nothing but a way to trick the enemy. Hes way too goated to be used like that, that's disgraceful

[green roost]

a waste to you

[pastel summit]

which is why it's contrived. we don't know how they function, so just saying "yeah she can do this because of awakening" feels forced, but there's no counter to it, because we don't even know how they function. on top of it just being a really bad reason that actively ruins the manga, just to justify that it's some time travel BS, which Oda went out of his way wouldn't normally be possible with the fruit.

[green roost]

i think the fruit got enough use in the story, its not that exciting of a fruit anyway

[onyx light]

Got enough use? Do you know how strong a fruit like that would be? It will definitely come back

[weak arrow]

More like the opposite

[green roost]

or it could accidentally get rid of itself from the canon: imagine someone new picked it up, popped themselves 20 years into the future. they are now gone forever in this story

[weak arrow]

It’ll never come back because of how powerful it is

[green roost]

it can write itself out pretty easily

someone found it and went further than the end of this manga's timeline

we may never see it again

[onyx light]

Someone has the fruit on wano. When users die, the power goes to the nearest fruit. Are you telling me no one on wano has it? Thats bull

For all we know, and I dont believe it but just making a point, oden could've ate it 👀

[weak arrow]

So are Bartolommeo and bon clay from wano?

[green roost]

someone in wano could have gotten it, but whats stopped them from using the fruit...over and over and over

[weak arrow]

Oden died before Toki did

[green roost]

just like toki, they could be long gone, id rather they were. its a messy enough fruit as it is if it was allowed to be explored like thru awakening

[onyx light]

Imagine oden being reduced to a prank played on the scabbards. Complete disgrace

[waxen light]

[green roost]

very sadistic...wouldnt you say?

[onyx light]

Yea, sadistic indeed. Which could only be kanjiro. However, the scabbards not finishing him off would make them look incompetent and embarrassing

[green roost]

i of course mean this would be right up kanjuros alley, if he reduced oden to a mere prank and laughed in their face about it

[waxen light]

Just think about all the mental gymnastics you have to do to make what your saying work. How would Oden have eaten it if he was in the pot of oil and died before she even road out of the castle?

[onyx light]

You would have to do mental gymnastics even if you think it's not oden

[green roost]

less so, than if you were to think it IS oden

[onyx light]

Oda is a god, Goda, im sure he'll do something completely unexpected

[waxen light]

unexpected = good

[green roost]

i expect him to do the unexpected yes, thats how moments like this could happen. but i trust him not to fuck up his story entirely by doing this (real oden)

[onyx light]

Gotta trust the author of the story 👀

[onyx light]

Oda hasn't failed me, at least. Other than making big mom a bit of a joke

[green roost]

oh he hasnt failed me even there

[onyx light]

Oda really be diving the fanbase

[green roost]

this would be his only failure in my eyes

[onyx light]

What would make you happy?

[green roost]

oden is actually dead and toki is actually dead thats all, not a large request, idc what else happens

for the flashback characters that provided a great motivation to the surviving characters, to get their due respect

[amber oar]

Agree, I trust him to not do something as retarded as revealing Oden was alive

[waxen light]

based jugol

[green roost]

just want them given the same respect flashback characters of the past got

montblanc noland is a story to accompany your drinks, because we will never see him again. and he was a legend.

stuff like that. oden is already that, if its not real oden right here

[waxen light]

To me, Nick, I was 100% satisfied with the flashback and how Oden, Toki, Roger, etc. were treated in it. Him being back, if he is back, is unnecessary. Ultimately I just have to accept whatever Oda decides to do.

[green roost]

it would be sadistic to flaunt such a legendary figure in front of their face, it has good reason to be kanjuro

imagine if wyper met calgara face to face, if someone pulled that, it would be hard to take them as a friend, its almost like youre rubbing their face in it

wyper would certainly feel insulted, if he caught on to the fake

[onyx light]

But if it's kanjuro, that would mean the scabbards cried for nothing, and they're incompetent

[green roost]

huh?

[pastel summit]

remember when doffy goaded luffy into joining the tourney just over Ace's fruit? imagine doing that, but with ace himself.

[amber oar]

if you ask me I'm not feeling Oden's apparition at all, be real or fake, I can't see any purpose for it at this stage. Gotta trust Oda has a good reason to do this

[green roost]

i mean, it would mean that yet again kanjuro was toying with their emotions , and if he convinced them he was "dead" there, he was only being a good actor, his one and only job in the world

theyre not incompetent, it was an extremely good actor, look how advanced his drawings are, he could have very well made one that was planned to fall over and "bleed"

[onyx light]

The scabbards aren't a joke

[green roost]

yes. theyre not. im glad were on the same page here

[onyx light]

I'm sure they know how to finish a job, and could tell what's a drawing and what's not

[green roost]

whos to say? they certainly were feeling very emotional even during that moment

[amber oar]

Kinemon already couldn't tell it was a drawing when he attempted to decapitate Kanjuro

it's not that the Scabbards are incompetent, it's that Kanjuro is that good of an artist

[green roost]

^ what i was trying to say

[dusky acorn]

Man, just look how shook Kawamatsu was when he heard Kanjuro's next goal of killing Hiyori. I can't think of this as anything but a missed opportunity if it doesn't come into play. Kawamatsu seems to be getting a bit of extra focus and WILL be in the future now that Hiyori is on Onigashima. Oden being Kanjuro seems pretty good to me tbh

[green roost]

you posting this is convenient, only making me believe it even more, that the kawa/hiyori/kanjuro plotline will still collide

[amber oar]

That said, I still think the body we saw was the real thing. I'm not feeling the Kanjuro theory, but at least doesn't shit over six years of manga

[dusky acorn]

Same Jugol, I went back and reread those scenes, everything Kanjuro said and did matched up with the real one. He was even having inner flashbacks to the scene of beating Momo up lol

Somehow he'd needed to survive that bleeding despite being gravely injured... so it wasn't a clone back then

[green roost]

if kanjuro is alive i would straight up assume the kanjuro they fought is also a drawing, just one that was made to bleed fake blood, like ink colored red

they didnt fight a real kanjuro , notice how the decapitated kanjuro on the boat still persisted and didnt turn off until it was kanjuro that decided to turn it off

[dusky acorn]

It would be pretty tough to explain it being a clone is the thing tho. Like, Kanjuro would need to even be faking the wound Momo gave him on his hand and bandage he had to put on, but maybe

[waxen light]

Well, I was under the impression that if the drawings "die" they fade away like Ryunosuke, his other clones, etc. It'd be weird if they killed it and had time to all stand around it and morn, Kin show up and give a little speech to them and pay respects to Kanjuro and it still being there. It would feel like Oda just pulled it out of his ass to me if he was like just kidding, he's alive!

[green roost]

not necessarily, he would just need to remember that his original body had a wound so he puts one on his fake's hand, a good actor would remember

[dusky acorn]

But yeah I agree that Kanjuro's ink clones don't have to necessarily instantly disappear, it seemed like something he willingly chose to revert back to a painting

Especially since he still had it talking after decapitation

[green roost]

the clone didnt dissolve into ink right when it was cut, it even continued to talk while decapitated i think

[green roost]

oh lol yup, i type too fast and dont look up lol

[dusky acorn]

I guess so, going out of his way to tell that whole story would definitely give legitimacy to him being the real thing

[green roost]

he even presented himself with decapitated clones, almost as if it was a hint to "hey what if ill survive even if u decapitate "me"?"

[pastel summit]

[dusky acorn]

Speculating on Kanjuro feels like an endless loop in a sense though lmao. Like, on one hand everything feels too natural to have been any other way than what we plainly saw it as, but on the other he's been built up to be THAT good of an actor

[pastel summit]

orochi AND kanjuro being alive

[amber oar]

I'm inclined to the Onimaru theory, but I'm not sold on the motivations to take that shape

honestly I feel like no answer leaves me fully satisfied. Though I can accept any answer as long as it doesn't mean Oden was alive.

[green roost]

the kurozumis shall rise again

[pastel summit]

if that were the case, the odenalivers would be justified, because oda's hackery has reached new heights.

[dusky acorn]

It's also more intriguing when you weigh in the fact that both Kanjuro and Orochi died in the very same chapter, it's basically paralleled

So, if we're all believing Orochi isn't truly dead, why doesn't the same go for Kanjuro

Idk, just trying to add more firepower to the theory

[green roost]

both died unceremoniously, someone can look this up but to an actor back then an offscreen death was a big disgrace

i remember hearing that somewhere recently, a thing about stage actors

[pastel summit]

and he was a disgrace.

[green roost]

and if the actor of all people, got an offscreen disgraceful death , and he WAS a disgrace...it would be fitting....that hes aliiiive mwuahahaha

what i mean to say is kanjuro can see the 4th wall and knew his death was offscreen disgrace

[pastel summit]

... sure...

[amber oar]

Honestly it was all so perfect. The Kurozumis dying in parallel, the stage actor dying offscreened, the small man afraid of the ghosts and hiding behind the big man, backstabbed by the big man, dying a small death

[versed hamlet]

in kabuki? or like

[green roost]

it would all be great if not for both of their fruits which are just so perfect in thinking of ways you could "dupe" death

[pastel summit]

orochi's death was perfect, oda backtracking on it would be hackery of the highest order.

[green roost]

i think just stage plays in general, not sure tho, was like an offhand comment i heard

[versed hamlet]

oh ok im looking into that comment rn and i cant find anything lmfao

[green roost]

oda never decapitated like that, its gonna be a fake out for meta reasons lol

but also cause of his fruit , which wouldnt need "awakening" , since its mythical lol

[dusky acorn]

And I agree with both of you to an extent. I can also see the beauty in both of those Kurozumis being wayy in over their heads with their crude way of life, only to die in the most lame and insignificant ways possible was pretty satisfying

[green roost]

and since orochi never ever had his head cut off before, its not something possible to know beforehand unless u just theorize about the fruit itself

[dusky acorn]

But I mean at least with a development like this the hackery isn't too bad, it's only like.. 20 chapters Oda's backtracking himself on

[pastel summit]

the longer it goes on, the worse it feels. especially orochi. No one notices? He's not exactly a small dude.

he's bigger than 99% of the samurai there, even without his massive head.

[green roost]

oda told jump ";et me show this decapitation, i need you to let me show it, i promise something, heres a story spoiler (orochi is alive)" and JUMP said okay

why did i capitalize jump the second time smh

[whole jewel]

Okay so I’m seeing a lot of talk about Momonosuke and his dragon fruit and I just wanted to propose an idea unless someone already said it. I’m thinking the reason why vegapunk’s fruit was called a failure is because it didn’t replicate the original devil fruit that kaido possessed. It instead created a form of the devil fruit that kaido currently possessed. So instead of being the original fish-fish fruit it went straight to dragon. Whether or not it holds the same power is immeasurable due to momo being a child still. And yes I do understand there is an aspect of the situation where they were trying to keep the fruit out of the government’s hands.

[green roost]

one problem with that, we got the official model for kaidos fruit, and its a mythical fish fruit: seriyu/azure dragon model , it alread ys technically "straight to dragon", it was in an sbs

[whole jewel]

I understand that but momo did not need to spend any time to awaken the dragon’s power meaning that we can already rule out it being a replica of Kaido’s fruit.

[pastel summit]

neither did kaido. that's not how fruits work.

[green roost]

well i mean, because kaidos model is already a blue ocean dragon, it was never a fish, always a dragon, its just fish by nomenclature

[pastel summit]

e.g. Kaku's fruit is the "cow cow fruit: model giraffe" that doesn't mean he had to awaken from a cow and evolve into a giraffe.

he was a giraffe from the start.

[green roost]

im thinking vegapunk's reason for calling it a failure will be a gag straight up: it turned out pink, instead of blue. so vegapunk didnt like that.

[thick sky]

people expect fish into dragon due to the koi koi legend so there's still misconception abt it

[whole jewel]

Yeah that’s where I’m basing some of my info

[green roost]

so far tho, hes still a dragon and still makes clouds that make you float if you use them

the only difference is pink, id actually love to see if momo has "touch scales" while in dragon form, someone should try chopping him up lol

[thick sky]

yeah I think the same. or rather it wasn't an exact replica, and kaido may be a perfectionist so he said its a failure.
that's my headcanon

[green roost]

to test if momo is really like kaido, just get someone to kidnap him again, get him to stay on dragon form, have no one save him, and see what happens from there

[thick sky]

momo could form flame clouds and fly

[whole jewel]

Well the physical appearance doesn’t get me cause it’s known that devil fruit animal forms take from the owner’s appearance but yeah it is probably a diff dragon

[thick sky]

he saved luffy that way in PH

[pastel summit]

yeah, but that's not how fruits work. The "fish fish" is just the "evolutionary" base for the fruit. The fruit turns you into a dragon, but a dragon that magically evolved from a fish. The user themselves never needs to evolve.

[green roost]

i bet his pink dragon form could survive a decapitation, basically, due to "touch scales", as kaido has, i dont think those "touch scales" carry over very well to human form, altho kanjuro did comment on momo's durability

[thick sky]

yeah i know, I am just highlighting the misconception

[whole jewel]

But still my point is I don’t think it’s just a simple scenario where they’re keeping the devil fruit from the government cause I don’t see Vega having too much motivation for that theory. I think there is something much deeper that oda was pointing towards there and yeah it could possibly be the dragon fruit that is capable of rivaling kaido’s

And again oda is setting momo up for some form of redemption so we should expect big things from him

[green roost]

vegapunk was arrested by the government and forced to work for them, i could see motivation rising out of that, not a very good boss to employee relationship, coupled with the fact hes already indirectly helped the strawhats before, also he liked to help the people of his home island . but this sends me down a rabbit hole into thinking what SSG will be, and how it may or may not even be effective in what it does

[whole jewel]

Yeah, I guess so. I think that’ll fall in place with the war to come.

[loud ibex]

Ugh why break bro !!

[thick sky]

because oda likes to see the world burn

[loud ibex]

Honestly man

My friends thinks one piece is boring 💔

[whole jewel]

I think everyone here has friends like that ngl

[loud ibex]

I told him to watch until water 7 you can only judge one piece if I watched all of water 7

[whole jewel]

Summit war is best arc tho smh

Honestly alabasta is the core of the show, that’s all you need to know

If you make it to water 7 you are rewarded for continuing on

[loud ibex]

My favorite arc is whole cake

[whole jewel]

Yeah that’s like number 2 for me

It had the most impact and char development since time skip

[loud ibex]

soabody and water 7 and marine Ford is the goat

Impel down is so good to it just over by marine Ford

[whole jewel]

Yeah

[pure raven]

Yeah Soapbody is cool

[whole jewel]

Though I don’t think we’ll see anything as powerful as ace and white beard in one piece for a while. I mean we are getting set up with sabo but I’m p sure we still have elbaf left unless that’s going to be a short arc before the war

[loud ibex]

I wonder what’s next after wano like this arc had been the whole point after the time skip

[pure raven]

One Piece build-up, starts with Elbaf and void century reveals

[whole jewel]

The big war that’s been set up is coming up soon

[pure raven]

Doubt. Ages away. That's the series finale.

[loud ibex]

Shanks arc is next ? Luffy has been with every yonko

[whole jewel]

I mean probably but it’s fun to think about lol

[pure raven]

Elbaf, Lodestone Island and Laugh Tale. Shanks is kinda unclear.

[loud ibex]

Luffy finding the one piece strikes this war or the ending is for the one piece

[pure raven]

Then reverse mountain -> grand line -> Marygeoise or New World backtracking

[pure raven]

Absolutely not. It's been made clear that the OP is just the first step to something else. Roger said he couldn't do it and just gave up and let himself get captured after it and did nothing.

[dusky acorn]

Red Hair Pirates seem to be the next most logical place to stop to, so yeah

Can't really go at Blackbeard until the final war I think, so he'll be last

[pure raven]

The final war will be a conclusion at Marygeoise with the WG and the World Nobles, most likely, but it's hard to say with the amount of stuff to go. Again, 5 years is not happening.

[loud ibex]

Ahhh good point

[pure raven]

imo there's far more to go after Elbaf, Lodestone (if they go there at all) and Laugh Tale. Vegapunk, the Revolutionaries and other minor things such as SSG and Urouge and Bonney do not fit into any of those imo, and are likely only after the OP has been found.

I still stand by the point that Oda wants to give the supernovas a major role in atleast one arc, so Bonney and Urouge will still have to do something imo

They've both been built up as having alot of potential too, so, hey, Bonney escaped from Akainu and is really mysterious, Urouge is on a sky island and is a Birkan (moon shit?) and Vegapunk and the revolutionaries borderline need their own arc imo

[loud ibex]

One piece is going on for more than 5 years that’s Fs

[pure raven]

I do think that Laugh Tale before or after or during will be a confrontation with BB, though

That's the end of the New World saga in general

[loud ibex]

I would lowkey hate if oda did what he did to ace the same as sabo a marine Ford 2.0

[pure raven]

lol same

[green roost]

is elbaf really a guarantee? i feel like the longer we go on, the less time we have for elbaf, needing to push right into shanks, unless shanks is in elbaf, but why would he be?

[whole jewel]

Here are my predictions for the war:

• Luffy is gonna meet up with Shanks or his father and Ally with them when he learns of Sabo’s fate to raid Marygeoise and the world government. We’ll probably see a lot of mini arcs in between like summit war with saobody and impel down as set up. That’s why I think Elbaf and Laughtale will be apart of those mini arcs. I’m thinking we’ll see Aokiji ally with Blackbeard and the luffy vs. Akainu vengeance match. The we have the Cp-0 rematch and at the end we have the Blackbeard fight. Of course this is all jumbled and out of order also more factors are in play but that’s my rough hope/prediction for it

[green roost]

hes gonna have to fight shanks first , he said he wants to fight all 4 yonkos

[whole jewel]

I think the Shanks match comes last

I doubt he is gonna waste time with sabo on the line

[loud ibex]

I don’t think so he’s not last unless he’s actually evil big I doubt it

[pure raven]

I feel like it is, with the amount of times it's been talked about. It certainly won't be anything major. There's no major threats there, or even any reason to escalate anything. Luffy is seen as a hero by alot of giants, and him raiding WCI likely even helped that even further. I can't imagine it being anything more than alot of backstory and infodumps, given it's got the last poneglyph (likely), Robin's savior Jaguar D. Saul came from Elbaf, Usopp's ambitions, and Void Century history.

[green roost]

fighting shanks could be a spar, lots of pirates fought each other without killing each other

[last halo]

Elbaf might be the Zou to the following arcs

[loud ibex]

Shanks teaches luffy on concrete haki

[whole jewel]

That’s what I said in my prediction

[green roost]

if shanks spars luffy it could be anywhere, we'd need a good story reason to need to go to elbaf, unless they learn one of the red stones is for sure there

[loud ibex]

I honestly loved zou cuz how short it was

[pure raven]

I don't think Oda wants another Zou, I think it was really poorly received in general, so there'll definitely be some sort of threat there, but still. Also, you don't per se need a reason. It's the next in the map, so they have to go through it regardless.

They have to stop by it to calibrate their log pose anyway.

[pastel summit]

????????????????????

[last halo]

I think we might have Shanks reunion in Elbaf, leading to Laugh Tale vs BB and then Big War against WG

[pastel summit]

poorly received???? what? Zou is one of the most well received arcs post-ts

[pure raven]

Just a minor antag is what I mean, even if it's just a BB scout like Burgess in Dressrosa

[obtuse void]

idk i find zoa boring af

[green roost]

poorly received? at the time i felt a lot of people really loved zou...its looked at fondly and one of everybodys favorite twists is in that arc , the raizo is safe moment

[pure raven]

It is? lol. I've heard nothing but the opposite ngl. my bad though

[green roost]

im sorry, not favorite twists in the arc, its one of everybodys favorite twists in the whole series

[loud ibex]

Zou is good wym after dressrosa which was the LONGEST arc it felt good having a short arc

[pure raven]

yeah dressrosa is fine to read now but boy was it paced like shit

[loud ibex]

Zou when they showed the red pone and it felt like the one piece is near it’s end

[whole jewel]

There are a few points we must address when discussing the following events of wano. We have been teased for ages since summit war that something bigger is coming. I think this will be the final battle, a full on battle royale between the revolutionaries, world government, and pirates like the black-beards

[green roost]

people love zou for its shortness, its lore dump, and love that it had that insane twist , also its pretty dope to look at and has that sick zunisha moment

[loud ibex]

The anime was shit literally was so bad

[pure raven]

yeah Elbaf could be Zou 2.0 then I guess?

[whole jewel]

Zou 2.0 for bigger summit war

[pure raven]

there's alot of void century shit there regardless, and a D. we know nothing about (jaguar). i also generally don't think the poneglyph could be anywhere else

[loud ibex]

We just don’t know bro oda can just put everything upside down as we know it

[pastel summit]

saul wasn't from elbaf

[whole jewel]

I say we move past it, Elbaf is a definite for now that the straw hats will go to

[pure raven]

if it was anywhere else it'd be lodestone island, but that's even more pointless, imo.

[loud ibex]

Lmao just like chapter 1007 like it’s total bullshit

[pure raven]

aren't all giants?

[pastel summit]

no

[obtuse void]

god damn everything i like everyone dislike and everything i dislike everyone ike

[green roost]

sauls ancestry is elbaf but he was born somewhere else, he said so

[pure raven]

oh ok

[whole jewel]

Either way Elbaf has been hyped up too much to not be a location they explore

[pure raven]

But yeah, I see a handful more islands after OP, anyway. Revolutionaries, Vegapunk, SSG and CP0 aren't getting handled in Elbaf, Lodestone (if it happens) or Laugh Tale. Period. imo. Shanks might be, but eh.

[pastel summit]

he said "not all giants are like the ones from elbaf" which implies there are giants not from elbaf.

[pure raven]

tyty didn't really remember tbf lol just assuemd they were all from elbaf

[loud ibex]

It’s cool man so much plot points we just forget

[potent ravine]

I think Oars isn't from Elbaf

[pure raven]

Still, I think Luffy would be treated as a hero there? So I'm not sure what type of antagonistic force Oda'd write into it

[last halo]

Shanks

[whole jewel]

Oars is a completely different race lol

[pure raven]

Shanks should have his own scene in general imo. Him being in the land of the giants is so nonsensical to me mate lol sorry

[loud ibex]

Defeating big mom she did kill a important person

[pure raven]

The only reason people say Shanks will be in Elbaf is time reasons, not actual plot reasons. I hate that theory

[last halo]

Why though? The antagonists aren't always from the land they're in. Kaido isn't from the land of samurais

[pure raven]

I think ideally it'd just be another Reverie-type situation, where it pans the focus away to something else. We could get caught up on the SSG, more WG things and the state of the world post-Reverie invasion.

[whole jewel]

Besides Elbaf though guys, what do you think luffy will do when he finds out about sabo? Do we think he’s just going to goof off with shanks or do you think he’ll postpone his finding of the one piece?

[pure raven]

He can't backtrack through the NW. He has to continue and then go through Reverse Mountain.

[green roost]

itll probably pan away for a bit but not for its own arc again like the reverie, that was special

[last halo]

It's whatever. Oda could make them meet wherever he wants. Elbaf could be part of Shanks territory

[pure raven]

That just seems too farfetched, and why? Literally what reason is there for him to be there, headcanon aside

I think he's gonna be post-OP with Mihawk in his own scene.

I really don't want Oda to rush shit, above all else

[whole jewel]

We still don’t know where sabo is held plus I think it might make a good plot point that luffy leaves the op to go save sabo meanwhile Blackbeard gets to it and luffy has to fight black beard with the one piece whatever it may be. Could also be another scenario where black beard arrives late to the party with a plan

[pure raven]

Well, BB's already moving while the raid's underway, and the raid's gonna take days or a week or more until they leave Wano, so BB is already gonna get ahead, but I'm pretty sure BB doesn't have the OP as a goal in general.

[last halo]

That's up to Oda to decide. Maybe there's a poneglyph there and he knows Luffy or BB would need to go there to have it. Maybe that's his territory and just stays there when he isn't moving around.

[whole jewel]

I don’t think the significance of the op is important to bb but perhaps there is an ancient weapon he wishes to gain control of or fend off luffy from

Perhaps the knowledge to destroy the government and subdue the world

[pure raven]

yeah, ancient weapons are something else we still need alot of info about. Maybe, though, I guess. I think BB's overall goal is just world domination and/or being a chaotic force in general. He just likes picking fights and causing destruction. Ancient weapons could be tied to that, even if the OP isn't.

[whole jewel]

But it is made known in summit war that BB is looking for the op for its power

White beard then states that BB is not the one Roger is waiting for

[last halo]

Blackbeard's goal should be the OP, even if it's just a way to get the world chaos he supposedly wants

[whole jewel]

It is exactly that

[pure raven]

I don't think so. pre-TS, sure, but post-TS, the world climate's changed a bunch. Nor Kaido nor BM's goals are to get the OP, even if they have a poneglyph each in their possessions

[whole jewel]

That’s not true

[pure raven]

They still value it highly no doubt and it's still of insane value but Kaido's made it clear that he just wants a glorious death and/or to start a gigantic war, and BM just wants a huge family and more and more territory in the NW.

[whole jewel]

It’s been stated before that they are actively looking to become the king/queen of the world

[pure raven]

When? I'm not saying they haven't, I'm actually asking lol in case I forgot/read past

[pastel summit]

chapter 985

[whole jewel]

Literally this arc

[pastel summit]

and then again in chapter 1000

[last halo]

Was it 1000?

[pure raven]

ch. 1000 just said whoever gets it is closer to the OP

[whole jewel]

When bm and kaido reunited so before then

[pure raven]

you're right though

[last halo]

I think it was some chapters before l, they specifically say they will fight after finding the One Piece

[pastel summit]

it was chapter 985, and then further re-emphasised in ch. 1000

[last halo]

I think when Kaido lifts Onigashima

[pure raven]

Scopper Gaban when

[last halo]

Probably never

[whole jewel]

I’m thinking

That after wano, the remnants of the WB pirates join the grand fleet

[loud ibex]

I hope so

[pure raven]

do you not feel as if it's too on the nose for this guy to have shown up ever since the start in roger's crew and is basically the one person who hasn't been shown yet from roger's crew.

he's always at the forefront with rayleigh too

[loud ibex]

And all the Samurai of wano will go too since wano with be open

[last halo]

He would be a good addition to the current arc. Otherwise I think he could appear maybe before Laugh Tale

[whole jewel]

Exactly this is just further evidence on my theory of the big war

Just being a big battle royale

[last halo]

Similar to how Crocus was before the grand line, Rayleigh before the New World and Scopper Gaban would be before the next stage, which is Laugh Tale

[pure raven]

just wiped out tomato town

[whole jewel]

Gaban in Elbaf who?

[pure raven]

Gaban's the other guy in Roger's crew who hasn't been shown yet. The only one who hasn't been shown yet.

(Gold) Roger
(Silver)s Rayleigh
S(copper) Gaban

[last halo]

Who hasn't been shown in the current timeline

[whole jewel]

Gaban in Elbaf just calling it now

[pure raven]

I also wonder if Shiki's ever gonna be mentioned again in the canon lol

[whole jewel]

We need some more Xebec background

[green roost]

probably in rocks flashback

[last halo]

See how Roger was the introduced at the beginning of the series, Rayleigh at the middle and that leaves Gaban to the end, Laugh Tale.

[green roost]

everybody wants to see what happened in god valley, would be dope if we actually did, or at least a window into kaidos past which could give us rocks info

and if that happened, then shiki would be mentioned again

[pure raven]

was shiki in god valley?

[green roost]

all of rocks was

[whole jewel]

Just out of curiosity, did they confirm that God’s valley and laugh tale are different?

[pure raven]

oh right. i also wonder if they'll say how many world nobles there are. i've been curious about that.

[whole jewel]

Like couldn’t they be the same island?

[pure raven]

they look drastically different, so i'd say so? laugh tale is a forest island, god valley is just mountains

[green roost]

they have to be different, the ancient kingdom name which laugh tale used to be is unknown to the world still, and god valley was its own island

[pure raven]

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/onepiece/images/5/50/Laugh_Tale_Infobox.png/revision/latest?cb=20191228133123&path-prefix=pt
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/onepiece/images/b/bc/God_Valley_Infobox.png/revision/latest?cb=20190930224625&path-prefix=pt

i mean eh i guess they look similar-ish but huge doubt tbf

[green roost]

you can safely say pretty much they are not the same island

[pure raven]

again, you can't "stumble" upon laugh tale. you need the poneglyphs

[whole jewel]

I’m just saying the islands history matches up

[green roost]

god valley is a known island which disappeared, roger was on there already

[whole jewel]

God’s valley disappeared and Roger knew about it

[green roost]

roger stepped foot on god valley, garp stepped foot on god valley, all of rocks pirates even wb stepped foot on god valley, celestial dragons stepped foot on god valley, it was a known and named island, laugh tale is unknown and untouched by most of those people, roger only been to laugh tale once

god valley could have been buster called for all we know

[solid stone]

I thought the implication was that it was buster called?

[green roost]

yea im pretty sure it was

[solid stone]

Both God's Valley and Ohara were "wiped off the map completely" which I interpreted to mean that God's Valley was completely obliterated via Buster Call

[green roost]

hence, it is impossible to be laugh tale

[errant nova]

Why’s everyone call it laugh tale instead of Raftel?

Like I know about the stampede translation but curious why everyone prefers it

[mystic crown]

@errant nova Read Oden fladhback

[sand sail]

Ohara was erased from maps, God valley was stated to just straight up not exist anymore

Ohara is actually there, physically, still. Just like Enies Lobby is, it was just razed to the ground

[still lodge]

Sounds better

Imo of course

[keen path]

https://youtu.be/0RVZNNdRBbo

What do u guys think abt this theory I like the idea

[grizzled fog]

Can you summarize it?

[keen path]

Basically that the 9 red scabbards aren’t the 9 silhouette that break the dawn and open wants border is tokis prophecy

But instead it’s 9 of the supernovas this part is a bit shaky but the idea of the theory is cool I recommend to watch the vid

[amber oar]

the 9 shadows isn't a prophecy, it's a promise

Toki always referred to the scabbards and no one else. It's not that she foresaw 9 shadows, it's her hopes for them to carry the plan

a promise worded to sound like a prophecy, to defy Orochi's rule

[thick sky]

nah. Apoo switching sides after all this. Urouge, Bege and bonney coming out of nowhere,

it will just be... bad

[pure raven]

Crazy theory time, what if the OP is actually an ancient device on Laugh Tale which can reconstruct the world. There are so many islands in the world, but only one big continent (Red Line) which halves the world in two. In the past, the previous user (assuming a noble or Imu) might have caused the current world's shape in order to create the celestial dragons (the royalty above any nobles) and gain absolute control of the world. Royalty living on top, while commoners serve on the ground. Separating the people also weakened their mentality.

Some time later, Joyboy traveled the world and eventually found out about Laugh Tale and its secret. But he learned that certain conditions need to be fulfilled for the activation of the device. These conditions could be the "Will of D." , "a chosen one of a prophecy" and/or a certain time period. So, as he realized that he won't be able to activate it no matter what he does, he decided to leave it to the future generations. His intention was to unite the world back to "One Piece" and destroy the Red Line + Celestial Dragons. Before his demise, he gained many supporters who helped him build and hide the road poneglyphs for the upcoming generations.

Unfortunately, Gol D. Roger managed to find the island and must have fulfilled most of the conditions. But eventually failed due to the wrong "time period". My assumption: a certain cosmic event which occurs every xyz years is the trigger, the current era is getting close to it, and Imu doesn't like what's going to happen. What do you guys think of my theory?

[pure raven]

according 2 ur theory ** imu sama** know the loaction of** one piece**, he/she would have destroyed it ,so no one would be able 2 reach it and then no great pirate era would have started 2 begin with..

[tidal tangle]

Yea the theory has holes

[pure raven]

and when u say''a device reconstruct the world'' what do u mean by that ?

[pure raven]

Like the ancient weapons, there is no explanation how it works but it has godlike power

[pure raven]

Basically, in my opinion Hiyori took care of the chainstays but at that point Kanjuro recovered finding the chainstays and Hiyori. Kanjuro has decided to go after Hiyori, while to keep the scabbards at bay he has prepared a drawing of Oden with the aim of having them stay in that room long enough to try to kill Oden's daughter.

if you meant the "reconstruction", then you can imagine all of the islands moving on their own and becoming one big continent

[still lodge]

Yes

[pure raven]

one more thing i wan't 2 ask if we assume that imu sama was one who used this godlike power device which means he also belong 2 D or he used someone with the will of D then why he hate them?

[pure raven]

I like it, but because I actually prefer the idea of ​​Kanjuro remaining bad, compared to a yielding Kanjuro. If it's Kanjuro

[still lodge]

I do think kanjuro makes the most sense (motivations aside)

[pure raven]

I believe so too, at least compared to Onimaru's idea

[still lodge]

The only problem with that one is that it doesnt seem line he can trun into anyone

[pure raven]

then how will u explain about the smoke and stuff which occured when oden enter the room

[pure raven]

In fact, Onimaru can only become a kind of warrior monk until proven otherwise

[still lodge]

That smoke has appeared a lot and has been used to give a bigger impact in some scenes

Like flying six talking to kaido

[pure raven]

This smoking thing is easy to explain. Usually when a lot of "big" characters at the plot level come on the scene. They have like smoke all around the base of the feet

ok that is good point

[still lodge]

Imo kanjuro is the most interesting idea

[pure raven]

If we assume Imu was the one who used it and fulfilled the conditions on his own (also assuming he belongs to the clan of D.) . Then my only guess why he goes to such lengths is that he wants to remain his status quo and doesn't want to change the order of the world. Regarding why he didn't destroy the island in the meantime? It might be useful to reset the world once more if he needs to.

[still lodge]

It opens a lot of possibilities for oda to surprise us

[pastel sinew]

I am not ready for this day

[pure raven]

"Regarding why he didn't destroyed the island in the meantime? It might be useful to reset the world once more if he needs to." then why did imu sama make it WG's personal property

[pastel sinew]

I like the theory of Imu being the one person alive who was given immortality due to the Op Op fruits ultimate power

[pure raven]

You can't tell people there is an absolute ruler who governs over the Nobles who governs over you. So he decided to use the WG as his puppet and the elder stars being his closest attendance.

[pure raven]

what do think about 5 elders they also looks same

[pastel sinew]

They might be celestial dragons who have been chosen via their ruthlessness to be the main governing body

I wanna see Zoro VS the one elder with the sword

[pure raven]

he can still use WG as its puppet as u said 2 make 'one piece' its property . it will help a lot 2 hide it like he hide his identity

[pure raven]

While the people are separated from each other, they cannot rebel against this. But I think unifying the islands and bringing all the people together, especially the countries straw hats used to help, will prevent Imu from doing so easily

[pure raven]

"will prevent Imu from doing so easily"? can u explain it

[pure raven]

As you mentioned above, Imu will claim the world as his own, even if the world is reconstructed. So imagine this: after the unification, people start to realize that the WG was keeping this big secret about the device. The former government claims they don't know about anything but wants to recreate the WG by Imu's order. Would you as a citizen approve? Especially if you're connected to the straw hats and have heard their side of the truth

[hasty tapir]

whos imu

[pure raven]

😒

[hasty tapir]

ok i got it

when do they reveal him in sillohet

[pure raven]

Sorry, need to correct something he was already shown in episode 885

[hasty tapir]

ohh

what about oden theories

[pure raven]

no no no n o , i am saying that if imu knows the location of one piece then he/she would have make one piece WG's property before roger could have found it , and after knowing that roger is after one piece imu should have taken measures 2 prevent roger finding one piece ..

[dusky acorn]

What about them? There's two theories pinned up top if you want to give them a read.
Made a special case to leave a couple there very briefly since it's been a hot topic and Oden should get revealed just after this break anyways

[pure raven]

that "should" really hurts

[dusky acorn]

It's very, very likely he'll get revealed. If not at the start of next chapter, it should be sometime during it. Just have faith and remember that earlier data about the Onigashima raid cliffhangers I collected

[pastel summit]

the more it gets delayed, the worse it is. Not just from an anticipation standpoint, but it's an active event, and unlike a fight, it needs to be thoroughly explained what is happening, on top of the fact that area is already under a big amount of danger with Jack heading towards them. So I'm pretty confident that it'll be explained next chapter.

[lyric dust]

personally i'm not really a fan

[pure raven]

fan ?

[dusky acorn]

Yeah, there's too many developments revolving around the treasure repository right now to not be shown. Scabbards, Hiyori, "Oden", Jack, and potentially even Sanji later.
If whatever the identity reveal is happens to be anything besides completely mind-blowing, then it doesn't deserve to be dragged on for multiple chapters before the reveal as you say.

Like, Hybrid Kaido for example is the one cliffhanger reveal that's currently being dragged on for multiple chapters, but that's because of the sheer epicness of not only the form, but the rooftop fight as a whole. So, if this Oden doesn't compare to at least that kind of hype, it doesn't need to be dragged.
If it's something as straight-forward as Onimaru or Kanjuro then it deserves to be shown next chapter, 100%

[dark palm]

if they remain skeptical then it circles back to this "Oden" still being used for a shock factor cliffhanger
I don't think the story should be read in this lens, especially if said "cliffhanger" has legitimate reason and emotional tension behind it. It's still shock value, but that isn't the overall point of the scene, nor is it purely the reason Oda included it. In regards to Hiyori telling them the same thing beforehand, it's because she was assured safe (something they immediately asked) that they were fine with it. It's not that I'm underestimating her own power, it's that the Momo situation is much different than this one. Momo was last seen by them in a situation that would directly prevent the scabbards from acting on their original plan, and I feel that Hiyori's existence as a safety secured this decision.

The feelings of guilt and shame both the scabbards and Hiyori share are similar, but different enough to be non-hypocritical. On one hand, the scabbards feel shame for failing to fulfill their ambition of killing kaido, therefore disgracing Oden. As a result, they want to continue helping in any way they can, and are willing to give up their lives to do so. But on the other, they've already contributed a great amount to the raid, and to just muster up that last bit of existence purely to die would be futile and an exhibit of a lack of trust in your allies. For Hiyori, she hasn't contributed whatsoever in terms of helping out initially or doing anything at all the past 20 years, so the place she's coming from is more valid and less of a direct risk to her life (assuming they are actually near death). Why she'd be running away from deathly injured patients? Probably to find someone who can actually treat them in this situation, as I don't think she can perform surgery for example. But yeah, we'll just see. My attraction to this theory mostly comes from not wanting to see Kanjuro back in the story, and to just have the scabbards flash-back to him post-war. His "death" being fake would also need a damn good explanation, so oh well.

sorry for the wait was doing genshin things

[lyric dust]

i really hope it gets shown next chapter, it'll put the "oden is alive?" theories to rest

[dark palm]

don't see a way it isn't

that would be dirty of Oda

[lyric dust]

i have a slight suspicion that oda's just gonna pull some dumb shit out of his ass and then not end up including Oden / Kaido's hybrid in the next chapter

[pastel summit]

I mean, I guess. I just think there are so many ways that are better to go about this. I really don't think the scabbards would not listen to Hiyori, especially if she's legitimately telling them that if they fight, they will die and accomplish nothing because of it. At the end of the day, she is still Oden's daughter, and she commands a level of respect due to that. She knows this. She used her position to stand up to Orochi. Like, I think everything would be a lot cleaner if hiyori was doing all this herself. I'm not seeing how using a fake Oden to convey a message is somehow more meaningful than Hiyori herself conveying it. Especially if she feels like she has done nothing. I think we really have kinda swapped positions here lmao. I think you're leaning too heavily into her being a burden now, and thus she won't try and do anything by herself because she knows she is one. and yes, she is still a burden, but she is one regardless if she appears or not, but I don't think it's really that great if she's just hiding and failing to communicate by herself.

Like, in the scenario of the scabbards being deathly injured, they are more of a burden than hiyori is. They should barely be able to move, let alone fight. At least Hiyori can presumably run.

[ancient vault]

+1

choc spittin

[dark palm]

and now we've reached repeating ourselves stage lol

I think everything I said in my paragraph was something I've already said

[pastel summit]

same I think.

[dark palm]

should probably put it on pause till the chapter like last time

[pastel summit]

it's just waiting for another month again

[dark palm]

nope nope

Oda will resolve this one next chapter, I've sacrificed three shitposters already

[night jewel]

what kind of ritual is that

[covert hazel]

Brutal but effective

[ancient vault]

maybe thats why this chats so quiet rn

I think Tama together with her fruit would be a good scout, to scout entire islands on first arrival.
In the Oden flashback we've seen this role be mentioned twice.

1. When the WB pirates landed on wano somehow and had to scout the island for food first
2. On the island Roger was chilling because the island was giving off weird vibes and seemed dangerous from far away

Together with her fruit in combination with a summoning jutsu possibly. Btw this isnt my idea but just wanna put it here

[acoustic helm]

Still it's hard to forget that flood of comments that were unleashed that day.

[tired osprey]

[tired osprey]

im going to lay low for a while

2. On the island Roger was chilling because the island was giving off weird vibes and seemed dangerous from far away
   I think they sensed Roger as the monster tho

[ancient vault]

Yeah but how exactly does that matter? The island was still giving off weird vibes and if it looks weird like for example the raining lightning island she could just scout them

[tired osprey]

tama could tame some birds and scout ahead, like a true beast master

[pastel summit]

too convoluted, requires chopper. Carrot does a better job of scouting.

tama can only give orders, she can't actually communicate with the animals, so even if she had birds under her command, they couldn't tell her anything.

outside of like, body language.

[pure raven]

wano have 2 entries so why did tama needs 2 scout someone

[ancient vault]

Who knows maybe she can
Carrot already lost the race when she jumped pero 2vs1 and lost

[dark palm]

Maybe if you give Tama a pet parrot she can be the scout

[teal nymph]

is any1 goona talk about oden in ch1007 ?

[pure raven]

That was just Kanjuro's drawing

[teal nymph]

yep thought about that lol

[pure raven]

Beware shitty theory ahead: -

I think orochi is up and he asked Kanjuro to help scabbards, because he wants to get back at Kaido for beheading betrayal. He would most likely want scabbards to keep fighting Kaido, at the end he would fight whoever remains #ShitTheory

[ancient vault]

Kanjuro is dead 😴

[pure raven]

Its either him or me Bon Clay... 😛

[ancient vault]

Its none of the two Bon Clay is in Impel Down and never touched Odens face

[pure raven]

That was a joke 😄

why not Kanjuro though? if you say he is dead, then is orochi also dead?
Well it could always be a new devil fruit...!

The Oden reality is Fukurokuju with the "I don't care to make sense of the plot" Jutsu 🌚

[pure raven]

Ironically, totally makes sense 🙂

[pure raven]

Ehehe

[granite shard]

I have a theory that “oden” might be Catarina Devon

[pure raven]

Possible but unlikely,
1- she does not have reason to come for scabbards (At least nothing that we know off)
2- She would have to know exactly how oden should be, how he talks, his relationship with scabbards, then details of scabbards
3- last time we saw blackbeard pirates they were going for something that marines want.
So this being Catarina Devon chances are around 10%

[ancient vault]

Mfs pull numbers out of nowhere

[pure raven]

I have 1 even more shitty theory. This is real Oden
This is how
When brook died 50 years ago his devil fruit re appeared somewhere in the world.
Oden ate this devil fruit before dying
After they thought Oden was dead he revived due to this power. Toki then sent him into the future.
Chances of this theory are negative 100%

[night jewel]

brook still has the devil fruit lmao, thats how he uses soul solid, and all the other soul abilities

[jaunty turret]

His soul would have had to come to his beaten and burned corpse, the fruit doesnt heal away scars

[pure raven]

ikr, just thinking of craziest explanations 😄

[robust ibex]

It was 50 years for his soul to get back to his body so his flesh and all that was desentigrated leaving only his bones and somehow his hair

[warped wagon]

Still look at the clothes, Oden is wearing
These are the Daimyo Kuri clothes, I dont think, that Devon knows them, ehe probably would Turn into the oden who was with Roger

[tired osprey]

its the same clothes

he just hasnt tied up his lower half

[whole jewel]

Thought about it last night and I think after Wano, Luffy will meet with shanks. I believe Shanks might be holding the other road poneglyph that we have yet to see. It would make sense as Shanks might be looking to give it to Luffy if he is able to beat him or prove his strength. I.e: His feat in Wano where hopefully he will beat Kaido and Big Mom. But with the Sabo situation I think Shanks will be the one to inform Luffy about it. They will probably postpone their duel to go seek the revolutionary army where we finally see Luffy meet Dragon. My thinking behind this is that Shanks isn't opposed to fighting for his friends. As we saw with White Beard going to marine ford, he would have easily joined the fight if not held up with Kaido and the animal pirates. I also don't believe that Luffy and the others will go seek the One Piece out in such a rush. I think it would ruin the importance of the moment and ultimately the war at hand should be dealt with first.

[stray pilot]

Sooo, this might sound crazy but I think Wano kuni might be a reference to the real world country of Japan, do your own research but it makes sense

[whole jewel]

I think that's the point lol

[gritty harbor]

all I gotta say is... the POLL is correct w the answer lmao

[pure raven]

I thought everybody knew that

[weary cliff]

Oh makes sense. The original name the chinese had for Japan was "Wa" after all.

[warped wagon]

Thats pretty obvious tbh😅😂

[gritty harbor]

not obvious if u never researched it or were into Asian history

[polar bison]

wa no kuni

[weary cliff]

Exactly. 倭の国 and ワノ国 would be pronounced the same. Could be a historical reference, or a simple coincidence

[zinc iris]

it's a reference

Japan's name 和の国 means Country of Harmony
ワノ国 literally just means Wano Country where (ワノ) Wano is just a proper noun (not a language word) with that sound instead of having any meaning

so it's meant to sound like the ancient japan but it's also different because it's just a reference instead of being the very same name

[weary cliff]

@stray pilot theory confirmed

[zinc iris]

katakana are used when the intention is to evoke a sound without any meaning attached to the significant

[weary cliff]

TIL it's not just for approximating western words

[brisk mirage]

Theory, Doc Q will be the new user of Moria's fruit after BB and the Bois+Devon, ripped it out of him.

[pure raven]

Doc Q always looked like he would get some kind of slow Zoan DF

[polar bison]

Doc Q died over timeskip, Stronger is in that Titanic Captain spot

[pure raven]

i heard of a theory that moria will join bb

[pure raven]

huh when?

[polar bison]

it’s a manga theory

Stronger is the new BB doctor and titanic captain, probs ate some sort of devil fruit

[pure raven]

but we did saw him after WCI arc

when bb gets 2 know about luffy being 5th emperor

i guess

[grizzled fog]

Tbh, I do think it would be an Oda kind of gag if Stronger were, literally stronger than doc Q, but he doesn’t get the credit because the WG sees him as a pet like chopper

[brisk mirage]

I just think Moria's fruit goes well with Doc Q's aesthetic, especially his big scythe. Very Grim Reaper/Death-like

[pure raven]

agreed

[brisk mirage]

Also BB would never let someone that weak join him

[pure raven]

i just herd it i am not the one who is saying that he will

[plush sequoia]

Ok I have a Theory not sure if it was said here. The Oden we saw was Brulee. Big Mom riled up the samurai because she saw they did damage to him. When Kaido sees Oden pull up with the samurai, he freaks. Big Mom takes her shot and kills him. Hits the point of “pirates betray each other”. Long shot, but would be so hype and it would make Big Mom look scarier and restore her image a bit.

[pure raven]

when did brulee meet oden

[plush sequoia]

He had a wanted poster

[pure raven]

was brulee even on ship

[polar bison]

didn’t he literally invite moria

[plush sequoia]

I don’t think she would have needed to meet him. The wanted poster could be enough.

[polar bison]

I think u underestimate moria tbh. man’s was literally about to try and fuck up a yonkou for absalom’s sake

maybe he got swole over timeskip

[pure raven]

i am asking that was brulee on ship

[plush sequoia]

Oh. I don’t think so but she can travel through the mirrors.

[pure raven]

he is weak compared 2 bb

[pure raven]

but why would she do that

[plush sequoia]

Because Kaido is her greatest rival right now. It would work so well. Bjg mom is showing signs of being a longer term villain anyways.

[pure raven]

if this was an option then she would have shake hands with marco at the entrance of onigashima

[junior shoal]

She wants the road poneglyph first

[plush sequoia]

No because I think she didn’t realize how much damage Kaido had taken yet. The only question would be when would she have communicated this to Brulee.

[pure raven]

and i don't think kaido can be killed this easily even if he is caught off guard

[junior shoal]

Brulee create mirror of existing, she can't make mirror of dead to be alive

[pure raven]

oh how can i forgot this, thnx man

[visual merlin]

what why

[pure raven]

no i just think cause after getting defeated and stuff

she is not the type who forgives

[visual merlin]

she probably wasn't happy with them, but she wouldn't go as far as killing them just because they failed a task

Katakuri is her strongest member too

[junior shoal]

I really vouch for Oars and Wano theory, that he pulled the continent together and that's the reason for variant climate of wano. Also, because Moria took body of ryuma from wano so it is highly likely he took oars from there too. Also as ace met little oars jr and made a hat for him which he learned in wano itself.

[pure raven]

ok i take it back i don't have many points 2 start argument or conversation 😀

[sharp thunder]

Good theories

[warped wagon]

Yes I am also conviced about that
Just think about Onigashima itself with the Giant sword, this was probably also One of Oars race

[pure raven]

Feels like Wano has a natural segue to the giants of Elbaf.

[craggy pumice]

"Elbaf is part of Acts 4/5" why would they suddenly go to Elbaf while still being in the Wano arc

Wano could also just have 3 acts and then they go to Elbaf

[cerulean parrot]

Do we know when kanjuro got his fruit

[polar bison]

little did everyone know that the Kabuki Play Five Act Structure actually entails the entirety of the rest of One Piece, and the tragedy to end Act 3 will be the end of Wano before transitioning right into the Final War Arc that will encompass all of Act 4.

[cerulean parrot]

Cause technically could’ve kanjuro made a copy of oden that went into the pot

[molten wolf]

kanjuro could make a copy of anything, because he just needs to draw

[last halo]

He got it before infiltrating the Kozuki

[molten wolf]

he could make a baby oden if he wanted to

[last halo]

Orochi recruits him while giving him the fruit

[cerulean parrot]

Hmm I really want it to be real oden

[whole jewel]

I think it will be

With big reveals like this, it's most likely the real deal

[cerulean parrot]

I hope so itd be real chicken shit if it wasn’t

Blackbeard would be the only suitable alternative

[molten wolf]

lol

[whole jewel]

A lot of people want to say it's due to some copy df but a) that idea was already used in Orochi's backstory and b) nobody has the motive to do that here

[cerulean parrot]

Yeah I’ve heard the dog and kanjuro mainly

[molten wolf]

so how is Oden being alive not real chicken shit?

[cerulean parrot]

Because I JUST WANT HIM TO BE ALIVE

[whole jewel]

It makes sense with Toki's df and the whole point of Toki giving an exact date for the raid.

[molten wolf]

oh, so, it's not chicken shit because it's something you want, not something that has to make sense necessarily

[cerulean parrot]

That too toki samurai jacking oden would be dope too

[molten wolf]

then which Oden died?

[cerulean parrot]

Yes exactly

[whole jewel]

It's stated that we never saw either Toki or Oden's body in the manga

[cerulean parrot]

Toki is def alive no body no kill

[molten wolf]

oh so Oden never died?

[cerulean parrot]

Nope

[whole jewel]

yeah p much, in attempt to save Oden, Toki was forced to send them forward into the future

[molten wolf]

we saw Oden's smile fading away in the boiling hot oil after he got shot in the head by Kaido

[cerulean parrot]

What if what we saw was just an alternate timeline before toki threw oden into the future tho

[whole jewel]

We also know that Toki is skilled with healing people which may be a piece of her df we don't know.

[whole jewel]

that would stray into a territory that I doubt oden would go

[molten wolf]

she said her fruit only works in one way, sending forward in time, not backwards

[grizzled fog]

no OS references pls

[pure raven]

Stop spoiling other series

[cerulean parrot]

Yeah timeline fuckery is a big leap

[pure raven]

Delete that

[cerulean parrot]

That’s not a spoiler????????

[whole jewel]

Yes she can accelerate one's health

[molten wolf]

that's unknown

[whole jewel]

I know but it lines up with her df

[molten wolf]

you assume

[lone plaza]

there’s still a lot about toki toki no mi that we don’t know

[pure raven]

@drowsy pecan there's a big hero aca other series spoiler above

[whole jewel]

She might have had to cut Oden's lifespan in order to do it

[lone plaza]

for all we know it could be the most op fruit, it could be like time magic in bc

[molten wolf]

[whole jewel]

Sort of like when luffy was poisoned

[lone plaza]

i highly doubt that that person is Oden

[whole jewel]

Well we're discussing in the chance and hope that it is, it isn't impossible to explain

[lone plaza]

cause Oda knows it would ruin the development of onigashima raid

but the idea that it really is Oden isn’t completely ruled out

i think of it as 25% him

[whole jewel]

I personally don't feel that way about it. I think the idea that Oden is still alive is something that was hinted towards with the fact that Toki was able to choose such a precise time for the raid.

[grizzled fog]

More of a 1% chance that he’s alive since I don’t think oda would so readily tear this arc to pieces

[remote mesa]

okay boys ive come to talk about how kanjuro has switched sides after orochis death and that is why oden is an ink clone we all agree yes perfect okay have a good one

[lone plaza]

when i saw Oden i was happy, but after a while i realised how bad it would be for the wano arc’s plot development

[twin raven]

i believe oden is alive

[whole jewel]

I think quite the opposite. Oden coming back is the most logical way for Wano to move past the era of kaido's rule.

[lone plaza]

we’re not even gonna find out for a few weeks, knowing Oda he’s gonna switch to Jimbei fight

[molten wolf]

all that character development for Hiyori and Momo that came from Oden's death? That would be gone

[drowsy pecan]

Warning for you @cerulean parrot,

literally don't even mention #other-series outside of #other-series, you might not care but there's enough people that do. please take it to heart

[remote mesa]

oh god are people actually happy believing oden is alive i will see myself out

[lone plaza]

frrr

[drowsy pecan]

nvm warnings dont log rn, but ye im just saying (koya bot ded)

[molten wolf]

all the buildup for the scabbards to try and honor his death? that would be gone too. Imagine Oden being such an asshole that allows his followers to fight Kaido and possibly die without him

[twin raven]

i dont see oden died already in manga if ever he died where is the body?

[whole jewel]

We don't have any rulers in place that will be able to govern wano after Kaido. Hiyori is the only candidate and based on her childhood and experience, I don't think that's something she'll want or need for her character.

[whole jewel]

Well that is not entirely true. They scheduled the time in which the raid would take place so that he could come back and help. Oden was in a situation like luffy in Saobody.

[lone plaza]

i see why you guys want it to be Oden so bad but realistically it can’t be him, simply because of wano’s plot development

[molten wolf]

Kaido straight up shoots Oden in the head.
He falls into the boiling hot oil.
We see his smile drowning into it.

Furthermore, Kaido's right there! Watching it! Why would he allow Oden to get out of there alive?

[maiden birch]

Oden-sama is back??

[molten wolf]

"And so Ended One Legend" ... but actually not? lmao get out of here

[lone plaza]

are you an anime person?

[twin raven]

thats why he smile because he know what will happen

[lone plaza]

nah

[whole jewel]

I understand that it was crucial to the development but oden is our best option moving forward from wano.

[molten wolf]

Roger also smiled on his death

[maiden birch]

Yes🤣

[lone plaza]

Oden is dead guys, Oda never brings legends back to life

[molten wolf]

So did Ace

[twin raven]

toki said to him that he will not be dead

[lone plaza]

it’s like Roger coming back for final war arc when it’s about the void century

[molten wolf]

so you say. Hiyori with the scabbards backing her up is a solid candidate

[night jewel]

hiriluk too

[lone plaza]

toki said that to him but he told toki not to bring him back if he dies

[twin raven]

maybe let see on the another chapter hehe

[molten wolf]

because the memory / will lives on. That's a thing in One Piece, that the person only really dies when they are forgotten

[night jewel]

^

[twin raven]

just enjoy the discussion hehe

[molten wolf]

it's not literally being alive

[lone plaza]

Oda makes them smile when they died to show how they lived a good life and died without regrets, it’s nothing to do about revival

[night jewel]

people look too much into that panel, ace told luffy that he will not die, roger told rayleigh that he will not die, etc

it doesnt really mean they are alive

toki saying that just shows her great trust in her husband, and nothing else

literally two panels later she is crying about oden's death in private, if oden wasnt dead then she wouldnt be doing that.

[molten wolf]

plus, Oden being alive right now takes away all the tension from this raid. Oden was shown as being very capable of handling Kaido. Get him upstairs with Luffy and the others, and that's a smackdown

[night jewel]

people also basically ignore the entire page and just focus on that panel only for some reason

[molten wolf]

it would also be the ultimate insult to Zoro
"Give me back Enma, I will show you how it's done"

[cerulean parrot]

But oden could just die at the end of the arc again

[night jewel]

yea ofc, oden is the emotional core of this story thats been built up for 400 chapters, take away that and all of that is essentially ruined, him being alive ruins momo and yamato's arc, it takes away the role of zoro and reduces the entire buildup to him eventually mastering enma and essentially surpass oden if he makes the blade black to nothing, and ofc, if luffy overcomes this seemingly insurmountable obstacle in the shape of the BMP and BP alliance by the help of someone like oden, it would also kinda waste away his growth, and the other supernovas' growth as well

[cerulean parrot]

But luffy was never about strength it’s all about the nakama along the way

Oden for nakama

[molten wolf]

[night jewel]

no, this is the story of luffy becoming the king of the pirates, not the friends we made along the way.

[cerulean parrot]

But the king of the pirates doesn’t equate to strongest man in the world

[weary cliff]

It's a little about strength. He made that declaration to Fuji that he would be able to beat whoever he needed to

[night jewel]

friendship is the core theme of the story, but the story isnt all about that

[cerulean parrot]

But what I’m saying is this story isn’t about luffy just straight butt blasting everyone he wins cause he has friends

[night jewel]

[cerulean parrot]

Bruh mihawk said it himself

[night jewel]

he really won against kizaru in sabaody using his friends

not like he had to go through 2 years of training just to become stronger

[cerulean parrot]

And where did his strength get him without his friends

[night jewel]

because he was... in his own words, "too weak"

no, he lost to kizaru with all his friends there

[cerulean parrot]

Ok