manga-theories

[plush pike]

No reason to be obnoxious.

[thick sky]

we weren't being obnoxious. we were just explaining timeline and how your take on luffy defeating babanuki created a different timeline is wrong

[plush pike]

badwolf consider yourself blocked

[kind gate]

The past cannot be gone back too in the same timeline

[light pond]

I dont care about being blocked by you let it be done we are explaining how invalid ur arguements are and ur using lame excuses like that lol ur just making urself a clown

[sand sail]

All of you can chill

[plush pike]

That's not what I meant, that was fine.

[sand sail]

If you can't keep the topic civil, you don't need to discuss it.

Please either take a step back, or move on.

[kind gate]

Once you go forward the past has already been written

[plush pike]

Agreed, I'm outta here.

[kind gate]

Hello okama

Oof

[hollow crag]

While you all are at it, could someone please figure why I'm seemingly blocked by badwolf? I can't react to their comments for some reason, and I don't recall any major interaction that may have led to me being blocked lmao. Cheers.

I just don't like an unresolved situation, that's all.

[sand sail]

@hollow crag Sorry man, but that's really not for this channel

Let's get back to theory discussion pls

[hollow crag]

I get it, it's just that I'm hella confused.

[thick sky]

badwolf, did you block weegee24? he's asking ?

btw how did the discussion go to timelines?

[hollow crag]

Lmao, who knows?

[polar bison]

ppl misinterpreted what future sight is

[kind gate]

Someone was basically trying to justify the toki theory

And we tried to explain that you can’t jump back and forth in the same timeline

[kind gate]

And that

[pure raven]

simply toki's ability is like, one way

no returning back

[kind gate]

I suppose it is that way too avoid the time line thing in the first place lol

[hollow crag]

Oda knows better.

[lusty island]

I´m convinced that Oden is welcoming the scabbards to the after life and Hiyori is mourning them

[hollow crag]

O... kay

[kind gate]

Me too imagine if that’s the tragedy

[pure raven]

can it be that old kurozumi hag

[hollow crag]

Still beats most of the theories lmao

[kind gate]

But Oden did say some weird thing like you’ve all grown so much which is bs

I doubt kanjuros oden would make such a stupid mistake

Imagine if it’s actually Devon I’ll have to apologize to so many people 💀

[lusty island]

Well in any case I don´t think we will get a straight answer the next chapter, we will prolly go back to the rooftop :/

[kind gate]

I have one whoever the tenth person is is allowing them through their dreams to speak to Odens spirit or something wild

[kind gate]

Yh 😞

[light pond]

I like this an out of the box plausible theory

[kind gate]

Lmao it still follows the same weird ass oden speech blocking it. I guess I surrender it’s Devon 😞😞😞

Sike

[verbal yew]

They could all be dead and this them going to the afterlife.

[kind gate]

Yh but again why would Oden say they grew

[verbal yew]

Yeah for sure. I do think it’s Oden but if it was that would be crazy but I don’t want weird time traveling stuff, but yeah I didn’t see this coming. 

[keen portal]

Afterlife, but they remember being healed by someone, and have bandages on them?

What kind of afterlife would do they be in where they have bandages on them lmao

[bitter flower]

I doubt we'll go back to the rooftop this soon lol, we'll probably see sanji, robin, franky, or jinbe's fight next chapter

[verbal yew]

the Onimaru theory is making more and more sense.

[pure raven]

First they have to lose like the normally do. Then the real fight starts.

[bitter flower]

whats the onimaru theory

[keen portal]

It's pinned

[pure raven]

Waaa, this place did changed. ❤️ They pin theories nowadays. 😮

[bitter flower]

Yeah I think the onimaru and pot theories are currently the most likely

But I still hope it is a vision of Oden through Haki or something, I would much rather get an explanation that leads to more world-building

[pure raven]

It's probably a trap. Tho, I'm also a bit scared about Bon Clay.

At the same time one of the BB pirates can also polymorph.

[bitter flower]

If it's Bon Clay I would be so darn happy lmao

[pure raven]

SAME ❤️

[light pond]

Actually the pot does not have the power to transform since it is a regular tanuki and a mythical one exist which is a bane-danuki

[pure raven]

My theory is that Tama will force-feed kaido onf of her dangos.

[bitter flower]

I'm not well versed in tanuki lore, has it been confirmed that the tanuki isnt mythical in any way?

[light pond]

But tama's fruit does not show to be either have an effect on zoans yet

[light pond]

Well bane-danuki is the mythical variant of yokai that transforms leafs or shapeshifts, tanuki exist in real life and does not have such powers

In one piece verse both variants of fruits exist

One is mythical the other is not

[bitter flower]

when'd we see the mythical variant?

[light pond]

The pot is regular tanuki not bane danuki

[light pond]

Already exist in game and oda dont use filler fruits

https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/Inu_Inu_no_Mi,_Model:_Bake-danuki

Also reminder all filler fruits have approval of Oda

[bitter flower]

just because something was used in filler doesn't mean it cant be adopted slightly differently in the series, there were a bunch of "heat" filler fruits before Oven in WCI

[light pond]

Difference is he used tanuki not bane-danuki or other yokai variants of tanuki and it is specifically says to be regular not mythical type

[verbal yew]

Just don’t let it be some time traveling bullcrap. Oda saved himself a headache when he made the time fruit a one way ticket. Also if it is the real Oden I don’t know how I would feel about that. It would make his death worthless. 

[light pond]

Tanuki does not have mythical powers unlike its yokai counterparts and if it has Oda should have specifically noted the mythical variant in fruit

[bitter flower]

mind sending the panel where they mention the tanuki's fruit? I'm on ch.911 but can't find it

[light pond]

Sbs 93

[bitter flower]

thanks. That doesn't negate the fact that the fruit could be mythical, Oda doesn't always reveal everything in SBS's. I still hope it's the fox since that would hold more meaning, but the tanuki is still a very likely possibility imo

[light pond]

No Oda names every mythical as mythical and he just used the pot as a gag that is all

Oda has named every mythical and every ancient zoans with those names since timeskip

[pure raven]

Feels like a Oda thing to do. When Luffy finnaly defeats Kaido, she will have a chance while hes unconscious.

[tidal scarab]

Maybe bon Chan is back o.o

[dusky acorn]

Na, Mane-Mane theories in general are 100% dead because there's no body/face left to speak of for a user of the fruit to capture Oden's image with it

[mystic crown]

Would you say all the pre timeskips warlords could beat one Yonko crew. Let's say big mum or Kaido crew seeing we know the most about them

[hollow grotto]

I thought Tama's tanuki teapot was referring to the mythological story of "The Wonderful Tea Kettle"

[grizzled fog]

If you include all the officers of the yonko crews then definitely not.

[dusky acorn]

Well, if we're going off a perfect case scenario where the Yami-Yami Blackbeard was a part of them, they might be able to do it?
I'll try pitting them with Kaido's crew since they have an easy structure:
Mihawk and Blackbeard vs Kaido (If we can all agree both of these guys are still stronger than any individual person on the roof, then their force as a duo might just be equivalent to our current 5 fighters, if not greater. And besides, it's not like they have to worry about a whole other Big Mom, so they might be able to take this matchup as a win. Mihawk can surely do damaging and penetrate his scales, while Blackbeard could help by playing a defensive role, negating all his fruit attacks and force him out of Dragon/Hybrid form anytime he touches him)

Doflamingo vs Jack, Jinbei vs Queen, Hancock vs King (Even I'm not too confident here with these, but I genuinely think Doffy's trickery and agility should lend him well to fight a slower guy like Jack)

Moria and Kuma versus the Flying Six (Best case scenario is Moria has a lot of strong shadows stocked up to hold off the other four F6 while the two of these guys work their way through beating their own individual matchups, and move on so on and so forth)

I'd also assume there'd be more shadows from Moria swarming the gifters/distracting Numbers, while the other herds of troops can be taken out in the crossfire of their battles. And regardless, the 25k+ other troops shouldn't be a problem since Hancock and Doffy are both Conqueror users. Thus, anyone under the Tobi Roppo doesn't necessarily need to be a direct focus

[grizzled fog]

Oh wait, it’s all the pre ts warlords lol. My dumbass thought it was just the OG 7

[mystic crown]

@dusky acorn Thanks for the extensive response. Perhaps seeing the shaky nature of the commander matchup Hancock swaps with black beard although we don't really know how powerful she is. She can most likely by pass Kaidos defense with her ability so it also serves to deal a lot of damage if she can land a hit.
Black beard can take King and maybe help with another commander

[grizzled fog]

I feel I should add it might be better to have Hancock fight queen (remember Komurasaki) and Doffy fight King (far more mobile)

Hancock might actually be able to make super quick work of queen with her fruit and help someone else

[dusky acorn]

Yeah that might be better, if Hancock stone can seep into Kaido's skin inside out she might actually be a pretty nice matchup. She has long range heart arrows that can turn into stone too iirc

I do agree though, King would be pretty fitting for Doffy since aerial is his forte

[mystic crown]

I just wanted to see if we could justify the warlords position as a world power. Talking about his fight kind of makes me hyped to see warlords really trying hard no underestimating opponents

[grizzled fog]

Also, Moria could potentially buff all the other warlords with shadows, that’d be pretty incredible

[hollow grotto]

Shadow Mihawk

[dusky acorn]

A shadow Mihawk would compliment his already vampric design quite well I'd say

Didn't think about that though, Moria has yet to buff up his own allies with it

[hollow grotto]

ahh I meant Nightmare Mihawk but the idea really does fit the aesthetic yeah

[mystic crown]

And then if they have there crews it's definitely a wrap. Doflamingos crew + Boas warriors

[pure raven]

Is that the real oden we see in chapter 1007 or nah?

[grizzled fog]

99.9% likely it’s a fake

[dusky acorn]

Yeah, pretty much impossible for it to be the real Oden. There's two theories on who this "Oden" can be that are briefly being kept up in the pins until it's revealed. One theory is for him really being a good guy, while the other has to do with him coming with evil intents. Pick your poison if you wish to divuilge, I suppose

[terse venture]

it's definitely a fake

just from a one piece standpoint and not necessarily the plot. I don't think Oda will ever resurrect any character straight up. Especially not someone like Oden after giving him such a legendary death

[pure raven]

I noticed that the swords was long

[dusky acorn]

Well, Oden has always had long swords so that isn't the best indicator to out him out

[terse venture]

well the swords he's carrying are just generic katanas

[dusky acorn]

This Oden has different swords, but they seem to be the same size as the old ones he had

Yep

[terse venture]

also, I feel like the 2 people other than the scabbards in that room are Onimaru and Hiyori

[solar steppe]

Act 4 wano will be marine comes to wano and captured kaido bm alliance , marine might send kizaru and sentomaru there to capture kaido and bm alliance

[pure raven]

Maybe Ryokugyu

[silk plume]

what if hiyori has toki's devil fruit and, before kaido drops onigashima on wano, hiyori makes everyone in wano travel into the future after the battle is finished

[cerulean summit]

Any possible connections with Catarina Devon being a “Crescent Moon Hunter” or do we know what that’s about

[dark palm]

doubtful

[cerulean summit]

Fair enough. Only modern shape-shifter with even a thread of connection to Oden. Oh well Oda got me lol gonna wait till next next week

[dark palm]

Onimaru potentially

we don't know if his power is even a fruit

[pure raven]

I think oden’s real

[grizzled fog]

He’s dead

[pure raven]

Idk I think that was toki in the silhouette and if it is it’s likely that this is the real oden

[grizzled fog]

Well toki is also dead

[pure raven]

So you think there’s two shape shifters/fakes?

[grizzled fog]

No, i think one is Hiyori, the real Hiyori, and “Oden” is Onimaru

[pure raven]

Yeah I think that’s the most likely case

I change my mind to your beliefs lol

[ancient trout]

Think its possible for it to be a image of Oden sent into the future by Toki? To send a message.

[dark palm]

sure would be a weird and random power

[ancient trout]

Yeah. Not sure how it would work, but I can't think of anything to make sense of it.

Other than mass hallucinating Akazaya.

[dark palm]

🦊

[pure raven]

Onimaru has the most evidence but other than scaring enemy forces I see no reason whatsoever for him to turn into oden like that ?

[dark palm]

Conveying a message for Hiyori to them

#manga-theories message

Here’s my complete rundown on it

[pure raven]

Well

That was pretty good. I’m aboard for it

[ancient trout]

Only question is how did Hiyori manage to get there when everyone else was struggling. Could be that she knows the way around the place from all her previous visits to Onigashima, and also how did she get to the island without anyone noticing her. Will be interesting to see how it plays out.

[dark palm]

I addressed those things, not many truly know what she looks like

And how she got to the room could have been Onimaru’s smell

Foxes have great senses

[thick sky]

any newer theories than onimaru and kanjuro?

[ancient trout]

Probably why Kawamatsu mentioned the face is familiar, since he is the only one who has seen her since the time leap. I guess that works.

[turbid merlin]

the catrina devon theory?

i didnt look into it much so idk

[thick sky]

that's also old.

already read many variations

[pure raven]

[turbid merlin]

well i guess we ran out of theories for this one , i dont think there are any other fruits , unless its some jutsu stuff

[ancient trout]

This doesn't add up. No way she risks her neck in the middle of 2 yonkou crews and the supernovas just to go and give the boys first aid and a pep talk. If she's there, she's after devil fruits.

[turbid merlin]

yeh , the theory i read is that she got ordered by teach to go and help luffy and the boys while she steals ponyglyphs or snatchs kaido fruit at the last moment

[ancient trout]

The key is the timing. If the raid was such a secret thing that Kaido didn't know it while under his nose with all that extra information, how would teach coordinate something like that.

Unless she was just supposed to casually carry out this mission on the fire festival day where maximum security would be in place.

[turbid merlin]

true true

[wide star]

so my really stupid theory is, this is the real oden, through wack-ass paramecia toki-toki no mi awakening technicalities.

he's still gonna die though; but not via traveling to the past. we still have yet to witness a real tragedy. my hypothesis is that oden's true death is going to be just that, as fucking dumb as it may sound.

the only real canonical awakened fruits we've seen, minus the impel down zoans, have been paramecias. the toki-toki no mi is a paramecia, somehow. this seems crucial to the point in this case.

i don't think oden is going to go back in time to his boiling hot pot of oden; he's the real deal, and will likely die in the raid as some sort of ace-tier sacrifice or some shit.

i do, however, think that kanjuro's a triple agent of some sort, who's been playing the part similar to how denjiro did the same; my really, really stupid hypothesis is:

• at the instant the hour of legend concluded, toki sent oden into the future via some really stupid awakened devil fruit powers via her direct connection with him (and momonosuke, let's throw that in there, he's their child after all). the oden who perished in the boiling pot (who seemed SUPER CHILL just hanging out there after all was said and done) was a painting by kanjuro, that may have been painted on the sides, the underside, or hell, between the cracks of the plank they were standing on. this is a hell of a reach, but hey.

• toki goes back to the castle, tells the story to the scabbards, they all get sent into the future, then she follows suit just before the castle crumbles down to heal them in the raid on onigashima.

this is a really dumb theory, but hey

[turbid merlin]

maybe BB has spies in kaido's crew? , i mean kaido's crew is massive , even some fodder knowing the info will be enough

[ancient trout]

I always found it strange that literally everyone other than the Akazaya Kyunin knew which port to go to. I mean it was a stupid mistake, but how did no one else make it? I really like Kanjuro triple agent tbh.

[wide star]

he was never confirmed to be dead in 986 when we last saw him, and most importantly, this was the last panel we saw him in

https://i.imgur.com/RrPHHwc.png

so either kanjuro flipped sides and is sacrificing himself to conjure up the motivation the scabbards need, or this was the plan all along

that's my perspective, at least

keep in mind that kanjuro spent a solid amount of time around the straw hats - and luffy's key trait is turning enemies into allies, so even if this isn't the real oden, it's likely that kanjuro would have been like "man fuck this i'm gonna be the COOLROZUMI"

[ancient trout]

Seems difficult to plan this far ahead tbh. Also the straw hats are a massive wildcard. There's no way these guys would lose to Kaido and survive unless they had someone subbing in for them, which now happens to be a happy coincidence. One thing is for certain, this is the most clueless I've felt about one piece in a long time.

[buoyant gust]

Whaaaat I just read ch. 1007

[torpid lion]

Now tell us what you think about it

[buoyant gust]

Mhm the way Oden made his appearance was not so epic, maybe in the anime would be easier to represent this scene. But I’m still confused, and It seems like it’s not a real thing ahah. Sometimes I’ve doubted about the death of Oden, but now it’s very WHAAT DA FAAAK

[zinc iris]

Oden is likely fake but then it means it was a cheap way to have a shocking cliffhanger

[keen portal]

Depends if the fake oden plays an important role later in the raid. If they just vanish, then ye, bait cliffhanger. Like Hyo in danger of dying.

[ancient trout]

Yeah Hyo was drawn out far too long I felt. Could have been two panels shorter atleast.

[thick sky]

hyo in danger was just to emphasize a chapter on chopper

[lofty zenith]

Well...Kaido wasn't wrong.

[torpid lion]

Here is why i think that 'kanjirou theory' may be wrong.

We were shown that Kanjirou is a master artist in the manga... If he wanted to triple cross and motivate the scabbards he would have drawn a perfect picture of oden with his real swords but....as the panel shows: oden has two different swords. He doen not have enma and the other one(i forgot the name😅)

It is just a theory... Tell me what you think

[night jewel]

He knows that zoro has enma and ame is with hitetsu, he would draw them incorrectly on purpose

[sand robin]

We all know that is fake "Oden", the real question is whos that person ?

[sand robin]

Kanjuro pretend to be Oden is lame

My theory is Onimaru pretend to be Oden, or something like Onimaru relative with healing power

[ancient trout]

But him having the actual swords would be a dead giveaway? They know the swords are with Hitetsu and Zoro.

Oh didn't see that reply.

To me, the Onimaru theory stands out so far as the most plausible theory. It actually being Oden doesn't seem possible and completely nullifies Momo.

[shadow jewel]

Maybe it is Oden, but the silhouette drugged the scabbards

[torpid lion]

Someone remind me who's onimaru?

[ancient trout]

The fox that collected the swords. It shapeshifted to that monk and disappeared when Kawamatsu showed up.

[torpid lion]

Ohh.. Thanks!

[pure raven]

kaido actually is a ninja and used shadow clone jujutsu and his clone is fighting the 5 supernovas

[sand robin]

The thief who collect sword and become fox

[torpid lion]

Ohh and can someone tell if there is a discord server for Haikyuu

[fleet patio]

Luffy is going to die in Wano and the story will end

[boreal storm]

How do we know onimaru can transform into another person?

[mossy dock]

The jump with onimaru would be that he could even tranform into oden, which we dont know yet. However the swords this fake oden has is similar to what onimaru had.
Now the thing that kinda feels wrong for me is onimaru pretending to be oden to motivate the scabbards. It sure works, dont get me wrong, but personally i dont see that as the best way tbh. Kinemon already tried to motivate the other scabbards before he saw 'fake oden' with saying something like 'luffy is already fighting, we need to fight too'
Also, if onimaru really is there for motivation, it takes away from the scabbards spending huge amounts of time post odens death waiting for this day. Imo they already had enough motivation and desire for this fight, enough to sacrifice themselves for the sake of odens will

Also, it wouldve still hit quite hard in the feels if onimaru in his human form that we know showed up and motivated the scabbards, saying something like: i cant just stand back and watch the scabbards fight, i will also fight till the very end with you guys

[ancient trout]

Yeah the motive for Oden's illusion isn't very clear. Which is where Hiyori's message may become invaluable.

[fathom matrix]

I can see it as instilling fear and shock into the enemy

and providing motivation and strive for the allies

Cause the beast pirates, would shit themselves, question and be scared if Kozuki Oden came back from the grave, and they don't know about Onimaru or what he can do, so it'd be harder to figure out.

[ancient trout]

This motive makes sense, but why show in front of the scabbards.

They don't really look like they're going back to Kaido.

[fathom matrix]

false sense of hope? Or maybe he might reveal himself AS Onimaru and they're like "OH, SO THAT'S YOUR IDEA?"

[mossy dock]

Also if its onimaru and the scabbards believe its oden, they will follow this 'fake oden' and accept him as the leader only to be shocked or so when they find out he isnt oden

Its like this false hope given to them which doesnt fit imo

[fathom matrix]

Either that, or it may turn out to be one of Kanjuro's ink clones and it's a sneak attack

[ancient trout]

Yeah. I was kinda taken in by Kanjuro triple agent, but the more I think about it, the more convoluted it gets. If its Kanjuro, its an attack. But if that is Kanjuro, then who was heal?

[mossy dock]

Personally, kanjuro makes more sense but i dont think its kanjuro either.

The reason i would like it to be devon is just so that oda can introduce a completely new story around that. As well as slowly transitioning to the next arcs, with blackbeard. In short, he has the option to create a seperate storyline with devon. However logically from what we have seen so far, it cant be devon

[sand robin]

Remember that jack is on the way , so any idea "Oden" vs Jack ?

[zinc iris]

if oden is an impostor then he I doubt he can fight jack

[thick sky]

hey does anyone know kindalike synopsis/summary of Honnoji incident? Its something about betrayal and assasination and I just had a feeling that it could be kinda related to the condition of Wano.

[upper shadow]

Zoro actually derived from Laugh tale

[ancient vault]

Whats the Honnoji incident?

Is it sth historical?

[thick sky]

yea

[ancient vault]

Wikipedia?

[thick sky]

first heard abt it in gintama. its about mitsuhide betrayal of nobunaga and nobunaga's assasination. I only know that much

[thick sky]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honnō-ji_Incident. it was too long so I was bored to read it

[ancient vault]

Theres also seppuku involved

just read the first paragraph that should be enough for you to at least understand the story

[formal quest]

Anyone thinks Nico Robin will awaken Armament haki while fighting Black Maria????

Cause with her fruit its an awesome combo

[zinc iris]

I have a pseudo theory why Momo's fruit can be considered a failure and it's pink

[ancient vault]

is the failure that its pink or is the failure the reason why its pink? If its the ladder tell me

[zinc iris]

basically both
in essence his goal in the experiment was to exactly duplicate the DF
but what if the uniqueness of each given DF is part of the natural (physical) laws of the setting
then it means that it's physically impossible to create an exact replica of a DF, and therefore the attempt itself is a failure
because there will always be a discepancy even if minor, to make it be a new different DF from the one that is being attempted to duplicate
in this case as you can't have another azure dragon df, it became of another color

[ancient vault]

So thats literally the only reason why he described it a failure? lol

[ancient trout]

Colour of observation
colour of arms
colour of failure lol

[zinc iris]

maybe it's a subtle argument, but the idea is that it had to be not azure, instead of being an accident

[ancient vault]

But why did it have to be?

[crude tiger]

What if the tragedy of Act 3 is that Kin approaches Oden and gets stabbed and thus revealing Kanjuro . Or maybe we go back to the roof and see the captains knocked out

[zinc iris]

because it's physically impossible to make a 100% identical copy as it would violate the uniqueness of the DF

[carmine comet]

theory: luffy becomes the antagonist in the next war arc cuz garp and sabo dies and dragon teach him the truth and shanks and coby fight luffy and shanks become pirate king while coby become the marines hero thoughts???

[zinc iris]

think of it like traveling faster than light or reversing entropy

[ancient vault]

No I mean why did he want to even create an identical copy? The celestial dragons wanted a dragon fruit

[zinc iris]

because he's a scientist and has to investigate nature, he's the one that researched the workings of the DF system for purely academical reasons, and the WG commissioned him to do so on powerful DFs because they wanted weapons

[wind geode]

The 5 elders wanted more a new weapon against pirates thats what I think

[zinc iris]

what if he wanted to challenge the uniqueness of the DFs just to see if it was possible? it's perfectly in character for a researcher

[zinc iris]

which is different from what Vegapunk himself wants

[carmine comet]

the ship they wanted water 7 to build

[ancient vault]

So the failure is really just that its not 100% identical and the only difference is literally just the different color? That sounds very weak to me

[zinc iris]

VP: "I want to experiment if it's possible to exactly duplicate DFs, will you fund my research"
WG: "Ok, but we want you to test it by a making a copy of the Azure Dragon, here's kaido in chains"

• time passes "
  VP: "sorry I failed, it's impossible to make copies of DFs"

[wind geode]

Maybe he is more a prisoner and they force him to build weapons like pacifistas

[sand robin]

CPO just know about "failure" experiment, the question is what happens if the experiment success ?

[pure raven]

🤣

[amber oar]

I mean, that happens a painful lot irl lol

[ancient vault]

He wouldnt say sorry. What theyre gonna do to him if he doesnt apoligize?
They need him

[amber oar]

VP is still WG's main scientific asset

[zinc iris]

well I was embellishing

[ancient vault]

Yes and they cant get rid of him lol

[amber oar]

Now, people are jumping quickly to the "VP is anti WG" conclussions when there's a fair chance he's just an extreme perfectionist and ditched his artificial df as "not good enough". After all, it still has unwanted side effects even if it's far better than any SMILE. That Momo thing of transforming randomly doesn't seem to happen with newly eaten Zoans

That said, I think there's a key to "complete" it and use it as a regular zoan and I think it's emotions. Momo transforms whenever he's upset or scared, so maybe it's down to that. Anyone has noticed how he used to spend a lot of time transformed and now he took this long despite the raid may be the most stressful environment he's endured since his parents' death?

[pure raven]

That's a pretty good point. I personally think VP's just more of a "neutral" person, as far as they come, like Tom from Water 7. He's not directly affiliated with anything by choice, he just has a passion for science.

On that note, I really do wonder at which point Vegapunk'll be introduced. I don't see him fitting in any of the next foreseeable arcs (Elbaf, possibly Lodestone Island & Raftel). The same goes for the Revolutionaries.

(I'm just saying this to add onto my point that I think One Piece still has a handful of arcs to go after the OP)

Something else that isn't talked about much that I really want to see is Scopper Gaban having a role in the story. lol. He seems to be one of the most prominent Roger pirates, but he hasn't been shown at all to date. He still appears in every flashback, though.

[gilded willow]

what is VP?

[pure raven]

Vegapunk

[zinc iris]

That Momo thing of transforming randomly doesn't seem to happen with newly eaten Zoans
Eh kaku did look pretty clumsy

[pure raven]

lol, throwback to Kaku cube form.

[zinc iris]

there's also that momo is a literal child

[pure raven]

I still think the only difference between Kaido and Momo's fruits right now is user strength. It's just what makes sense to me.

It's only natural for Kaido, literally this close to being labelled a giant, and basically one of the world's strongest, to be able to physically shift into a gigantic dragon as opposed to a 8 (?) year old child.

[zinc iris]

deep distress making lose control of the df is also not unprecedented, monet was constantly melting after being scared shitless by zoro

[zinc iris]

I want a Moon arc and VP will build the rocket to get there

[ancient vault]

For the second part. Yes I noticed this too and it was specifically cause he felr uncomfortable and got triggered when Shinobu called him brave/splendid

[pure raven]

I honestly don't want OP to get celestial and I really hope it doesn't.

[gusty rover]

that'd be a cool extra after the main story ends

[ancient vault]

why not oden

[zinc iris]

luffy becomes straw-lord

[pure raven]

I just think that it'd be far too extra, and if they can go to the moon, why not other planets? It adds another layer of complexity that's generally not required what with the amount of content OP still has to go through, especially if it wants to end soon.

[zinc iris]

because the distance between a planet and its moons is much shorter than with other planets

[ancient vault]

The only real argument I see against it is the time limit. We've seen its possible to go to the moon with baloons most likrly because the distance is not that big

[amber oar]

He's a giraffe what do you expect

he was still transforming at will, something Momo hasn't been able to

[gusty rover]

it doesn't have to be that complex though. Canonically, there are living beings in the moon and Enel is there with them

[ancient vault]

It'd be a fun adventure arc for which we would already have some set up

[pure raven]

please no 😔

[zinc iris]

moon arc is mega skypiea

[ancient vault]

[pure raven]

Zolo gonna open his other eye and reveal the Sharingan

[pure raven]

I REALLY like Skypeia, but no

[zinc iris]

sky island but bigger

[pure raven]

I don't want any arc that's just an old one but 2.0. I want something new, and that's at the core in Marygeoise I feel like

[zinc iris]

joke aside the moon is actually important in this story

[gusty rover]

bruh, the moon would be amazing

[zinc iris]

the minks transform by looking at the moon because of some ancient memory

the kozuki clan uses the moon as a symbol

all the wano families have it in the name actually

[amber oar]

I think the fact someone did it IRL makes going to the moon less special than floating islands

[pure raven]

I'm not gonna start actually LMAOO not worth it, someone'll take it seriously and turn it into a shitstorm

But yeah, good point. Generally speaking, I don't even have any reason ast o why I don't want them to go to the moon other than the fact that I wouldn't like it, but yeah

[zinc iris]

also the unspoken desire is to become an astronaut

[last halo]

Nice. Now I prefer this one to the Onimaru one

[pure raven]

Also, I expect a catch-up in chapter 1008 about the general raid, again with another picture of the floors.

This number's just too convenient. lol. The raid now has 15,000 members as opposed to Onigashima's initial 30,000 (now 20,000) - they're catching up fast.

The ninjas were also eliminated, and I think it's safe to say that everyone has their matchups, too.

[zinc iris]

i think next chapter will elaborate on jinbe vs ww

[thick sky]

artur shouldn't have had this as thumbnail

[dusty galleon]

Artur has a yt?

[thick sky]

this chapter's youtube video isn't uploaded yet it seems. The image is from his website

[rain crag]

Dude really put enel is the new yamato

[thick sky]

are greek gods or creatures used as df name or something in one peice?

[iron mesa]

So I do not think Blackbeard will become pirate king before Luffy does, but he will arrive on raftel first. He will get there first and attempt to find the One Piece, but for whatever reason, he won't get it. He will uncover the ancient history before Luffy though.
Luffy, who only cares about freedom and being the pirate king of the will see this means something different to him, than it probably does to Blackbeard. For Blackbeard it seems like he wants to amass power and become the man who literally sits on the throne, aka the world government.
After Blackbeard attempts and fails to become pirate king, I think he will go after the world government and IM, knowing the world's history, and will declare himself to be the new PK anyway. This will cause Dragon  and the revos to make a move. Bringing in people like Shanks (who I think will be the last active yonko at this point) to either act in his own interests, or the WG's behalf. Luffy will go after Blackbeard because he will have learned about the true history about the ancient kingdom as well, but I think Blackbeard will do something to the ancient kingdom, causing Luffy to react.
It'll bring everyone into one big melting pot, setting the stage for the final arc, AND if the final conflict took place with the wg, it would happen in Marie jois. That's where Luffy could make the FMI prediction come true. Blowing up the redline, wreaking havoc, and it could open the grand line up, letting all of the seas in, and making for the All Blue.

[pulsar blaze]

Holy shit if any of this actually happens i would be invested heavily

[iron mesa]

Yeah. I wrote this a while ago

But nothing has changed to prove me wrong yet, Luci

[pulsar blaze]

Thats true tbh

[copper frost]

Wait lemme read

[iron mesa]

Leaving General feels good. Less chaos lol

[pure raven]

That's because none of the prediction depends on anything happening right now.

[pulsar blaze]

I can see the final place being Marie jois

[thick sky]

shanks and bb would happen sooner ig

yea

[pure raven]

Bringing in people like Shanks (who I think will be the last active yonko at this point)
Big Mom will probably survive Wano at this rate
Kaido too tbh

[iron mesa]

True Lillahk, but I've had this theory for over a year with all of that in mind. I don't think any of this will happen for a while, but I think it won't be too out of the ballpark

[pure raven]

As the resident Teach stan, I do enjoy him making it to Laugh Tale before Luffy though

[iron mesa]

I never said they'd die. Just that Shanks would be the last active yonko, or like. A yonko threat

And yeah. I think it makes sense because Teach is always one step ahead of Luffy

[pure raven]

I can't see how anything would get Kaido and Big Mom to stop actively pirating and forfeit their territory

[iron mesa]

Well, I think if everything goes down in Onigashima like I think, this is how it's gonna end up

Yamato will be the new captain of the Beast Pirates, and Big Mom will stop adventuring, and she will remain in WCI while someone like Katakuri takes over

These are just my guesses based off of what I've read/seen though

And I absolutely know I could be wrong lol, so dw. I ain't disagreeing with you.

[pure raven]

I have no problems with disagreeing

Yamato for captain of the Beast Pirates seems like a massive stretch

She idolises the anti-Kaido (Oden)

[copper frost]

I think the Beast Pirates will cease after this raid

[pure raven]

Queen will make sure of that

[iron mesa]

Well if she becomes the captain, Lill, I think she'll be a better captain, and they'll be different than the current BP

[pure raven]

Neo Beast Pirates 😳

[iron mesa]

Also I'm kinda frustrated 'cause I wanna learn more about King

[copper frost]

They won't exist anymore, we're already seeing a change with the latest chapter that the footsoldiers of the crew are gonna just turn to the samurai side, and also with the defeat of the executives of the crew, there's really going to be no more Beast Pirates in my opinion

[iron mesa]

But King

[amber oar]

I mean, the last chapter kinda set up to that. Probably most members from tobiroppo and below will go back to sail with their crews. A number (*edit: of former members, not a Number) may declare allegiance to Luffy as well, after Chopper's actions

[copper frost]

Big Mom Pirates I think will exist, but in the capacity that they've operated so far?

[iron mesa]

Yes, but they're not going to be like. Assholes, Harsh

[amber oar]

They may split between Kata loyals and Peros loyals

[copper frost]

I guess so strong, yes I am inclined to agree with you

[pure raven]

The Jellybeanists and Whole Cakers

[iron mesa]

Well, they still might be assholes, but they won't be world threats lol

Guys. Next generation Yonko: Yorkie and the rumbar pirates

[copper frost]

That's a possibility tbf, yes. I would be inclined to believe that the Tobi Roppo with the defeat will see their time with their own crews or not be seen in the story thereafter, but they're such strong and important characters with big impact reading out for them further in the story so yeah, as for the numbers, I'm not so sure lmfao

[pure raven]

Usopp could get his own subdivision of the numbers

[amber oar]

oh, I didn't mean the Numbers, I meant "a number of former members"

[copper frost]

Ah sorry, my bad

[amber oar]

no worries, I can understand the confusion... I fully forgot about the Numbers lol, I wonder what will happen with them

maybe the Navy seizes them for research or whatever

[ancient vault]

Hopefully p1 and ulti join kids crew

[amber oar]

I don't see any setup for that but then again, Jean Bart didn't have any setup either, he was recruited on the fly almost literally lol

[ancient vault]

Just the punk style similarities

maybe they run into heat and wirw

[gaunt vigil]

Which admiral do ya'll think is gonna show up?

[ancient vault]

Greenbull

[gaunt vigil]

do u have any reason or is that j who u want to see

[night jewel]

none of them

[obsidian phoenix]

agreed with arsal

[thick sky]

hey guys. How about mythical zoan hito hito no mi: model Metis as onimaru's df?

[obsidian phoenix]

i dont think onimaru even has a devil fruit arent kitsunes just. like that?

[thick sky]

In one piece isn't almost every supernatural phenomenon either df or some advanced science?

[obsidian phoenix]

well no theres a lot of stuff that just kinda happens

[cunning fog]

i mean enies lobby is always daytime i dont think that had an explanation of advanced science

[obsidian phoenix]

like take miss goldenweeks powers those arent devil fruit related at all

[thick sky]

Shes just a great painter or something

[cunning fog]

WOW i thought she had a df

[thick sky]

Iirc oda answered that in a sbs

[obsidian phoenix]

yeah so there's no explanation for it scientifically

[thick sky]

She is just an extremely talented girl

[obsidian phoenix]

plus oda likes incorporating mythical elements in his story

[thick sky]

Tell me some mythical stuff that hasn't been described, In one piece

[weary cliff]

Well Shirohoshi is poseidon. You can sort of count the other two ancient weapons, though they take the romanized names.

Monet was more or less a harpy, but not naturally so

[ancient vault]

appearance at the start of wano and he was teasrd almost 400 chapters ago. Its about time he gets revealed

Basically i wanna see him

[thick sky]

I kinda liked artur's take on rokugyu

[obsidian phoenix]

uhh the thriller bark monsters, the island where it continuously rains lightning, that thing that sucked up bege right before the timeskip, the concept of kaido being a fish which comes from a japanese legend
admittedly not a lot of mythical things but ive always wondered why oda has mythical devil fruits if those creatures dont actually exist, and how they were created, so onimaru being a kitsune kind of answers that question
it just seems to me that onimaru is one of those things odas never really gonna elaborate on since its pretty inconsequential and its something important to japanese mythos

[thick sky]

Okay

[night jewel]

are you talking about the moria intermission? ehh wouldnt really count that as an appearance from him, i mean fuji appeared with him as well so....

[ancient vault]

no

[night jewel]

talking about this

wouldnt really count that but ehhhh i guess, doesnt really mean he will show up though, or fuji would as well lol

[ancient vault]

reverie

[night jewel]

separate arc

[ancient vault]

idc what u say
Wano begins exactly at chapter 900

the WCI part was just a flashback

[night jewel]

well, 900, 901 and 902 literally are part of the arc lol, but I can understand calling the rest wano

one of the editors calls it wano as well, although the opinions of the editors are irrelevant

even the title is supposed to make it seem like the end of the arc, and not 900

[ancient vault]

oda was just trippin, wano starts 900 and im correct

[night jewel]

[ancient vault]

Arsal what do u think of my tama fruit theory

[night jewel]

I haven't seen it i think, send me the link and I'll give it a read in a bit

[ancient vault]

I cant copy the measage link but its this one here

its not a lot just a thought I had and elaborated on a little bit

[molten lotus]

Will the next chapter showcase sus Oden appearance or will it come back to the fight at the dome?

[ancient vault]

it better reveal the oden shit. He cant leave us hanging like thaz

[molten lotus]

My guess is he will, but who knows given how he literally jumped the gun with hybrid Kaido

[dusky acorn]

It’s quite likely to cut back to the same scene and reveal Oden this time. It may even cover around half of next chapters content depending on how this plot thread goes.

The way I think of it, we’ll cut the the Scabbards in tears hugging Oden or whatever, then depending on if it’s Onimaru or Kanjuro, the former would do what Juba’s theory said, tell them to take their time and not rush to their deaths desperately trying to cover the embarrassment from their previous loss.
If it’s Kanjuro though, that would probably take up more screen-time where he’d be doing another “Gotcha” moment, and perhaps at that point we’d need Yamato/Sanji to step in to help, while we see Jack looming in on them as well. Then we cut away.

[fathom matrix]

considering, "Oden's" there

I think Sanji's gone after after momo

[pure raven]

sanji don't know about oden being there

[junior shoal]

Sani will still prefer momo

[dusky acorn]

Yep Daddy, but Blueberg is just talking from a writing standpoint from Oda

[fathom matrix]

he was deciding which way to go, and he we didn't see where

[dusky acorn]

If this “Oden” is a good guy already there to save them, then Sanji doesn’t have to be written there too

[thick sky]

The main thing that troubles me is post wano. When kaido and the beast pirate are defeated, there are still CP0 there. How would the weakened sh battle them

[molten lotus]

Do you perhaps have observation haki? That seems really plausible

[pure raven]

good point

[fathom matrix]

he just said "there" so, yeah Shimon, since "Oden's" there, Sanji would meet up with Momo

[pure raven]

i don't think they will interfare

[molten lotus]

I mean if Oden is alive, do you need anyone else to step in?

[junior shoal]

Wano is not obliged to give into CP0 demands and CP0 can't go against whole wano country

[thick sky]

CP0 is still a strong force. Perfect chance to take robin

[dusky acorn]

Yep once Sanji meets Yamato we’d have all grounds covered.
I wonder how far Momo will be able to wander off in his dragon form, maybe he’s already out of Yamato’s reach

[pure raven]

we have 3 supernovas and whole samurai gang

[junior shoal]

I don't think plot will circle to around to same point in which Robin will be kidnapped by cp. Looks pointless

[thick sky]

No but they will interfere after "pirates destroy each other"

[junior shoal]

They are also thinking defeating kaido is not possible for worst generation

[pure raven]

do u think momo in his dragon form he will unlock some dragon ability

[thick sky]

should, if he becomes mentally strong and of course, believe in his strength

[dusky acorn]

I think the best Momo can do with his form is learn to manipulate his fire clouds like Kaido, since that’s always been his most established power

[junior shoal]

Maybe he prevents the island to fall over the capital since we have seen him using clouds before so maybe he controls for short duration

[pure raven]

no not like that, similar 2 when he did at punk hazard

[dusky acorn]

I think he’ll play a utility role with redirecting Onigashima off trajectory or something. Certainly won’t be fighting people and shooting boro breaths yet though lol

[thick sky]

Yeah that but this time in his right state of mind

[junior shoal]

Ya in punk hazard he used fire clouds

[pure raven]

but considering momo's df being failed product can its ability be different

[thick sky]

This is why i think vegapunk thinks momo df a failure. don't know how to copy message link in discord mobile

[pure raven]

damn big brain

[patent pawn]

so the anicnet weapons are there
to control the grand line
one of them is the ship to sail the grand line makes perfect sense also rumors have it that the ship destoryed some of the red line to get thro
this would make perfect sense cause the world goverment wants all the oceans to be united
and wants to control them
just look at the flag honestly
then the mermaid is to control the strongest creatures
makes sene
so what will control the wheater
i think that awakened logia fruits is the 3rd ancient weapons

[junior shoal]

I don't think a df will be an ancient weapon

[solid knot]

i dont think the world gov wants all the ocean to be united

where do you get that idea from

[patent pawn]

the flag

[pure raven]

i think ancient weapons were created 2 defeat some certain kingdom which was threat 2 current WG

[solid knot]

thats a large assumption based on just a flag

[junior shoal]

The flag represents unification of countries all over the world

[patent pawn]

im pretty sure the dots mean every ocean and the lines mean to travel between the oceans connecting them

[pure raven]

nah

[junior shoal]

Yes dots represent ocean but lines doesn't to connect oceans but connect countries in those seas

[solid knot]

who cares what each persons interpretation of the flag is. there are far more valuable details to look at. The flag has multiple interpretations so no one can be correct.

[pure raven]

it represent rob lucchi's scar lol

[patent pawn]

xD

[junior shoal]

"Look at that symbol, pirates!!! That mark represents the unity of over 170 nations... In the four seas and the Grand Line...!!! This is the World!!!"

[patent pawn]

oh so do the lines mean the countries?

[junior shoal]

Unification of countries under one umbrella

[patent pawn]

that supports my idea even more

[night jewel]

Very interesting theory, but is there any indication of there being more than just one dragon that invaded wano? cant seem to recall anything like that... would like to mention that in the one shot monsters, an item was used to control a dragon, albeit it was a dragon horn and has nothing to do with dango but regardless, if oda decided to make a callback about dragons being controllable like that then it would be cool...

Also dont like the fact that dragons being tamable opens the path to kaido being tamed, not that kaido is a real dragon, but it would still be a connection that I don't like, but yea, still a very interesting theory

[solid knot]

if you asked me. the dots are the oceans and the lines can represent the governments rule each one. the whole show is about pirates and being "free" which the government has no desire of liberating people since they oppress several races like fish-men and mink. if anything the goal of the government is to keep the grand line as it segregates the people who live in certain oceans. while the possible goal of those who oppose the government is to destroy the grad line and unite all the oceans. this is just an example of how interpreting the meaning of the flag is pointless since its subjective and any view can be just as accurate although i believe mine is more accurate.

[patent pawn]

there are different interpertaions

[sand sail]

The government doesn't oppress fishmen or the minks, they have no dealings with the minks at all. General society abuses and oppresses those groups, and the government doesn't help them. Fishmen because of racism, and the minks because they just have no relationship I assume

[solid knot]

if the government is there to help why do they help the celestials who oppress all other races except humans.

[junior shoal]

Fishmen are looked down by nobels

[sand sail]

The flag also only has one single interpretation, unless the government's been keeping some secret about it behind the general public's backs

The Celestial Dragons oppress everyone, humans literally more than any other race

Likewise, the Celestial Dragons are above the government, they don't participate in it much. There is a line drawn between the two groups in the series for a reason; the World Government actually does provide some benefit to the world at large, even while being shady from time to time

The Celestial Dragons are just aristocratic, arrogant hedonists

[night jewel]

we know a dragon was slayed by ryuma, but besides those, all the dragons are artificially created, and I was asking if there is any indication of more than one dragon being in wano back then

[solid knot]

lol you are blind

[patent pawn]

couldnt akainu make a dragon?

[night jewel]

huh no

[sand sail]

With the Ryuuma thing Arsal, I wanna say the big worry was about dragons coming through in general to Wano

[junior shoal]

Because Those except elders are ignorant, elders keep track of the events and command too

[sand sail]

but I don't recall it being that they were like an infestation, so much as a really bad natural disaster. Been yeeeears since I read it though, lol

[pure raven]

but we can assume that there were invasion but we don't know about them as wano is isolated place not all dragons in one piece r artificially created

[sand sail]

Yeah exactly, the Celestial Dragons as a society just want the fruits of labor, while the responsible ones actually do govern relatively fairly and with benefit to a lot of people

Not that they're all or even a majority decent people or anything of the sort, but it's not as black and white as "Govment bad"

[solid knot]

not true

[sand sail]

How?

[solid knot]

i can tell you allow your politics to shape your world view and influence your view on OP

[sand sail]

I'm gonna have to ask you to discuss the topic, not the people. Ad hominems aren't allowed here

[dull pumice]

Im is using celestial dragons

[copper frost]

wait this dude is arguing OP in real life terms? you've already lost there bro

[solid knot]

im not saying i am im saying he is through what his arguments are

[sand sail]

I'm not, I can provide references in the series if you'd like. There's a reason marines are still generally considered heroes

I mean, the existence of Garp alone should tell you that the government isn't 100% bad. The marines generally do try to work for the betterment and protection of society, even while they're being overly militant assholes from time to time

[solid knot]

universal truth is not measured by mass appeal

[sand sail]

Or rather, protection of the law, I should say

[solid knot]

thats a individual which some individuals in the gov are good and i can agree. but as a "goverment" the majority of intent is bad and corrupt which youre painting it out not be

[sand sail]

Because it's not, the majority of their intent is not bad or corrupt, it's lawful within their means. They don't work to destroy society, they work to stabilize it within their standards

And those standards do actually help a lot of the world

The worst thing the government does on a regular basis is neglect anyone who can't pay taxes, which leaves them open for criminal activity

[solid knot]

i refuse to believe that a govermnet is good when they buster call island, remove 400 years of history to the people and pander to the celestials who oppress minorities

and their standards are bad. in their view it may be "justice". but that doesn't mean its done incorrectly

[sand sail]

So you've named three things, two of which have a single occurrence so far, against the other 800 years of them actually helping establish trade routes and connections between islands, provide protection to the people through the marines, help fight back against horrifying criminal activity that would have shattered society as they know it

[solid knot]

thats all self interst

[sand sail]

And the general benefit of protection from just being part of the World Government

It being self interest is irrelevant, those are still beneficial things.

[solid knot]

you're so naive.

[sand sail]

Stop with the ad hominem. This is your last warning.

[solid knot]

just because they help people doesn't mean they are doing it for the greater good.

[sand sail]

Nor was that my point.

So, on top of ad hominems, that's a strawman you've got going. The point is, they're not a 100% corrupt and horrible system, and they do bring benefit to the world in a lot of ways

[solid knot]

its not

[sand sail]

Because it'd be really stupid to not actually help society when you rule them and need them in line

[solid knot]

in line for who's benefit. the people or for the governments interest

" The point is, they're not a 100% corrupt and horrible system, and they do bring benefit to the world in a lot of ways"
this is obvious and not at all what i was arguing.

[sand sail]

You keep bringing it back to that, but that's still irrelevant. It's obviously for their interest, because the people being helped legitimizes their rule better than just trying to terrorize everyone does

this is obvious and not at all what i was arguing.

Interesting, because my first message into this discussion said nothing different at all, and you've disagreed with me the entire time. Nor has my general aim of the argument changed, and yet you still disagree with me.

So what exactly are you saying here?

[solid knot]

it did

[sand sail]

No, it did not.

The one, single stance I am taking is that the government is not an overly corrupt, malign system to the world, and actually benefits a good bit of society even while they are still committing shady deeds and protecting the Celestial Dragons

Do you agree?

[solid knot]

I do but I would say that they are more corrupt than you're painting it out to be

the little bad they do its large in magnitude.

[sand sail]

I'm not denying any corruption that they do, but i'm also not going to let you sit here and exaggerate as if every single thing they've ever done has been similar to a Buster Call or the Void Century.

You're also not going to deny any of the benefit they bring, and we're not even going to talk about whether or not it's for them or not since that doesn't matter in the slightest.

So yes, they do have a Buster Call protocol, and it's horrible. They've used it twice, ever, that we know of so far, and once wasn't even on a civilian population

Yes, they do protect the Celestial Dragons, who actually are about 99% corrupt and should be put down, and that is also horrible and inexcusable.

Yes, they have suppressed knowledge of the Void Century for whatever reason, but honestly an 800 year old coup doesn't make them an illegitimate government or anything, that's how governments are born pretty regularly. It's harsh what they did, but it also was far from their first option in any way.

[solid knot]

this is semantics. we agree to an extent I just disagree to the degree of which the government is responsible.

[sand sail]

It's not a matter of semantics, we're analyzing their positive vs negative impact on the world and trying to decide which has the greatest depth of their footprint

If those few and far in between things weigh over the moment to moment support that they have given over the last 800 years, including helping to suppress piracy which is arguably objectively a good thing, then that's okay. But as long as you recognize that they're not all bad.

[solid knot]

i do recognize that. i just believe that the far and few in between things overshadow the good they have done which in quantity is a lot but in depth is minimal. the magnitude of the bad is much larger than the good.

I gotta get back to studying. I appreciate the warning and the insightful conversation. my apologies about the ad hominem's. Hope you all have a good rest of your day!

[ancient vault]

It was never mentioned that there are more dragons in the world but I have been going along with my general assumption that God Valley was their home and birthplace. Basically:
Celestial Dragons are obsessed with dragons, they or the WG ordered VP to create some and they liked the dragon from PH so much they gave him a name and they even call themselves dragons. So I went along with Dragons = Celestial Dragons = Gods = Dragons
Also the celestial dragons were regularly (yearly or so) visiting god valley most likely out of tradition or maybe a ritual or maybe this was a big one time thing they've finally decided to do and rocks found out. Since we got the dragon connection down and my assumption that this is their birthplace I tied the two together. They were visiting for some yearly dragon spectacle.
Rocks found out about it and maybe he needed dragons to take over the world who knows, I have no idea.
But interestingly enough Kaido got his dragon fruit on god valley and Roger als has a dragon egg which I speculate he has gotten after God Valley.

Generally I think it'd make more sense that more dragons existed just like multiple ancient giants existed but they all went extinct for the most part.

Nice Monster connection

I wasnt going the route of tama taming kaido it may be worth a try but then I think theres a better idea.
Maybe they didnt go all extinct but rather after losing the tame fruit they could not keep the dragons in control anymore and locked them up ob God Valley. Maybe theyre still alive somewhere whereever god valley is and possibly rocks wanted to free them on that island for his plan to become King of the world? And also just massacre lots of Celestial Dragons.
This is really speculative but basically CP0 with the information they know would want to get back the tame fruit to gain control over the real dragons again.

[versed hamlet]

do you think that could have any connections with your rocks = hellhound theory ?

not specifically the part that rocks was a hellhound but the theory itself

[ancient vault]

Depends on what dragons you want to look at. It doesnt have to have a connection but I think dragons can also be linked to hell in some parts of mythology. Knowing Oda I would not be suprised if every single dragon was his own unique dragon of some sort

[fringe tide]

So kanjuro was loyal to oden minus the giving orochi info cause he gets super into his acting like he says. What if oden/toki came to him before oden headed to confront orochi/Kaido and ask him to make a copy of him to replay a message to the other samurai. And because kanjuro was so into his acting that he actually made this clone and hid it away in the supply closet and it was activated when law roomed them into it. Kanjuro is still barely alive letting this clone communicate with the scabbard

[ancient vault]

And maybe the dragon linked with hell had some weird special abilities but I'd have to do lots of research again. Maybe later this week

[ancient vault]

oh not specifically. So you mean rocks eating CDs right? Even if he wasnt a hellhound

[versed hamlet]

yes like in general like when you said this, do you think him for example releasing the dragons could be his mark on the world or something

OH could the celestial dragons be eatin the dragons like killing them and doing shit like that

it would be irony because they say the D's eat the kids but the celestial dragons are the ones that would be eating

[ancient vault]

That sounds like a good idea. But instead of eating them jsut for the fun maybe it was a sacrifice? It would go along with my idea of rituals and them being locked up

[night jewel]

ahh, yeah then definitely agree that dragons actually existed back then, and the scenario you thought up would be a good way to bring the dragons into the fray

[ancient vault]

Im just imagining a huge spread wirh all different kind of dragons

[versed hamlet]

sheesh

[ancient vault]

Maybe they come to help in the final war thx to tamas abilities

[versed hamlet]

would you think that they would be the badass design or the corny one piece design

cuz those are two very distinct images in my mind

[ancient vault]

Do you think the neptunians are corny designs?

But like these are dragons. I think oda loves drawing drafons so he'd possibly go serious

[pure raven]

Judge has a trident on his helmet. Is there a possible link to the Neptunians?

[versed hamlet]

Kinda, kaidos dragon form but like with western dragons mixed in as well would be nice

are you talking about this?

[pure raven]

these r sea kings right

[versed hamlet]

those r neptunians which are the same things

[pure raven]

ohh

[fathom matrix]

I can imagine dragons did exist

but they were all western, like on punk hazard

[hollow kite]

also, Queen mentioned Judge when he was talking about Sanji

whats with that

[pure raven]

Is there any possibility of us seeing Sogeking in this arc?

[fresh gale]

Nah

Sogeking is a concept long forgotten

[pure raven]

Unfortunate

[errant nova]

Almost makes me think that “D.” Is a dragon connection.

[pure raven]

Do you guys think the D. stands for a Japanese word or not?

[dusky acorn]

I think it's highly unlikely to be any Japanese word or phrase, since what Oda uses is the literal English letter

Not that I'm knowledgeable enough of JP to know how often D initials are used, but I'm pretty sure most people there don't have middle names entirely?

[pure raven]

This is #manga-theories btw, Mukbang

I don't think Japanese people even have middle names (unless they're of mixed heritage)

https://www.sljfaq.org/afaq/middle-names.html

[dusky acorn]

Yeah, makes sense. Although, I guess this doesn't necessarily confirm it the other way either. Meaning D doesn't have to necessarily be a word/phrase from English, but can be any latin derived language really

[pure raven]

Some Japanese people may affect a middle initial when writing their names in roman letters, but this is not a part of their official name.
I'm not sure what this means though

I still hazard a guess that the D. stands for danger because Kureha says that Chopper's affiliated himself with a dangerous man

[pure raven]

or may be demon, in context 2 " god's natural enemy' lol

[shadow sinew]

too obvious

[pure raven]

lol

[mystic crown]

No I think it would be better if D is a symbol. Best theory I have seen is it represents the half moon but idk

[shadow sinew]

D for Daddy

[ancient vault]

He also used the word Laugh Tale I def dont think its sth japanese.

[junior shoal]

I really liked the theory about tama being kurozumi

[tired osprey]

I dont

[dusky acorn]

Yeah swrml, I think we can all agree it wouldn't be a JP word then. I'd say Oda has a great track record with using English words in the story, but he also goes multilingual a lot of the time with naming schemes, like the Don Quixote family, or Sanji/Robin's moves lol.
I still think the D. initial is most likely to stand for an English word if anything, but it'd suck if this whole time we were shooting in the dark, if the real answer potentially lied in another neo-latin language we don't understand

[tired osprey]

But I do like the Kurozomi Yamato theory

[dusky acorn]

A "good" character being revealed as a Kurozumi generally sounds like a good plot-line that Oda wouldn't want to miss out on

Either Yamato, Tama, or even both who knows would be fine by me

Because tbh, Kanjuro's whole betrayal didn't really do the Kurozumi clan any favours, just off their general image

I think that might have been what Oda is trying to go for though, make the Kurozumis sink their image as low as possible in the characters/readers minds and THEN bring them back up with redemption

Not Kanjuro/Orochi specifically ofc, but just the clan

[hot dragon]

I think Kanjuro is still alive.

The figure we saw in 1004 is Hiyori.

Hiyori came with Onimaru, with the resolve to help the scabbards win, much like how Momo is feeling right now. She healed Kanjuro thinking hes still apart of the Scabbards because although she suspects a traitor she doesnt know if its Kanjuro. She heals him first cause hes located at the entrance of onigashima. After that, they both look for the scabbards, with Kanjuro probably manipulating her to find them. Then once Hiyori finishes tending to their wounds, so he doesnt expose his true identity, he swoops in with a clone of Oden to catch the scabbards off guard.

Toki doesnt make sense because shes seen dead by the other scabbards

[pure raven]

well it does sounds good

[hot dragon]

And it would invalidate her whole prophecy

Cuz if she came to the future then why didnt she bring Kawamatsu and Hiyori with her?

[acoustic helm]

Kanjuro is at back of onigashima

[hot dragon]

You got a map?

Lemme see

[acoustic helm]

All scabbards met at back
Stairs from behind lead up to castle

That's why laws submarine was used

And law shambled some scabbards to island

[hot dragon]

Ok but then we can just say that Hiyori went around the Island so she wouldnt be seen by Kaido

And Orochi

[acoustic helm]

Did hiyori witnessed koido being stabbed by scabbards

[hot dragon]

No

Not possible

[acoustic helm]

Hiyori never came with kawamatsu

[hot dragon]

Onimaru*

Sorry thats what I meant

[acoustic helm]

Correct it then

It could be that kanjuro is alive he made all the silhouette stuff

And now uses oden to make them fight and die against koido

Koido PTSD seeing oden

Orochi gets upperhand

[hot dragon]

Maybe. It is shown through Kanjuros past that he is this weird black ink silohuette thing so that isnt a far stretch fr

It could have been for the sake of keeping his identity secret but still

[acoustic helm]

Kanjuro is human

[hot dragon]

No I understand but remember his past. When he is talking to orochi

Holon lemme find a pic

[acoustic helm]

Orochi offered him fruit

[hot dragon]

Yeah

And its weird that both Orochi and Kanjuro were shown "dead" in the same chapter

[brisk mirage]

Theory for defeat of Kaido. Luffy and Zoro combo attack. Since we already have seen Kaido dodge or Zoro miss a large Enma attack from range, a possible ending could be that Luffy goes into Snakeman mode, grabs Zoro, and as a throwback to all the times pre-timeskip that he would grab Zoro from far away and pull him onto the ship as a comedic gag, he instead uses Python to push Zoro quickly up close to Kaido, avoiding attacks from Kaido and BM, or maybe even directly in front of him, Zoro then decapitates with an Enma shishisonson, or something like that.

Orlumbus Part 2 Electric Boogaloo

[random yacht]

Good idea!

[alpine hill]

Honestly, I actually do not see Kaido dying as that would mean he would get what he wanted however I do see Big Mom dying

She would lose the ability to get her goal which is to be PK

[sand robin]

Kaido defeat by "Oden"

[lofty zenith]

I don't think oda will kill her off without showing us what actually happened with her in Elbaf.

[plush pike]

Big Mom being defeated in Wano is such a narrative waste given what we know about her backstory. Her story arc should end with her reconciliation with the giants and dismantling her pirate crew in order to help them, or make any other huge sacrifice for them.

We already know Big Mom, unlike Kaido, has a soft/nice side to her. If she can go back to that persona at the end of the show, after her hunger pangs are cured by Chopper, I think that's a nice way to end her arc.

Also, I want to see Big Mom sharing oshiruko with Tama.

[severe fog]

Chap 1007 ||
I think he is not Oden because Oden's enma is in Zoro, if he is Oden then how does he have enma||

[pure raven]

@severe fog FYI you don’t have to spoiler tag here. And that’s not chapter 1008, it’s 1007

[severe fog]

ffff

[pure raven]

Some people could get confused because of it, so refrain from using them as much as possible

[severe fog]

aight mb.

[errant oxide]

Pretty sure everybody has confirmed it’s not Oden lol

[pure raven]

To answer your post:
I agree that’s not Oden, though the swords are different. It’s not what Enma and Ame no Habikiri look like. This is what they look like.

[formal ocean]

But zoro has enma, it wouldn't make sense to have two enmas in existence. That's item doubling

[pure raven]

I’m saying the swords that are with this “Oden” are different swords, though.

[formal ocean]

Yeah but that would make sense as this oden couldn't have enma

[round iris]

It's probably onimaru and hiyori, imo that's one way they can reveal both silhouette and oden without reviving dead character

[plush pike]

Don't use words like confirmed about things that are not clear please.

Makes it sound like there's definitive proof

I agree that it being Oden is an extraordinary claim that requires much proof. But it's unfalsifiable, so we have to wait and see if Oda can justify it being the real Oden. For me it would be enough to see "Oden" showing himself, whoever it is, to Kaido, and watching him get really scared for the first time since then.

Also, I demand a Yamato and "Oden" interaction.

[thick sky]

https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/m4fq79/spoilers_chapter_1007_putting_all_the_pieces/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

A detailed (and extremely long, like really really really long) post considering every detail and pro and cons and yes, no headcanons

[dark palm]

It's not very likely. However, it's hard to rule out because of Oda's inconsistencies in character's aging and scars permanence.
stopped reading here, regarding Oden being alive

what even

[thick sky]

Even the author of that post doesn't conform to Oden being alive

[plush pike]

That post is really detailed wow

[thick sky]

Yeah

[dusky acorn]

Yeah, though I know he was going for a comprehensive post about absolutely every guess, but things like Bon Clay and Hiyori having a DF really didn't need to be there

[thick sky]

I agree with that not introduced a living and breathing mythical creature part

[dusky acorn]

Still, pretty cool to have all the clues laid out in one huge list

[plush pike]

Why can't Hiyori have a devil fruit again?

[dusky acorn]

Because in her final moments when she was an instant away from dying to Killer, she did nothing but close her eyes and let her fate be decided for her, instead of retaliating by at least trying to delude her pursuer

[plush pike]

Eh, I mean it doesn't have to be a combat ability.

Kin'emon's ability is literally to fashion clothes out of leaves.

[dusky acorn]

Even if it isn't a combat ability, at least try spawning up some random figure to confuse him or literally anything lol

[dark palm]

why not use it when trying to save toko

during yasu's execution

[night jewel]

we will not talk about meta narrative reasons like" oda usually does and doesnt do this and that"

"SO UH CONSIDERING THE INCONSISTENCIES IN CHARACTERS' SCARS BASED ON THE PREVIOUS EXAMPLES"

[plush pike]

If it's not useful in combat or evasion, then it wouldn't be used there.

[dark palm]

yeah arsal, lol

[pastel summit]

impressed you made it that far. I gave up here

DETAIL N.6 - Toki is sure Oden will survive the ordeal, but breaks in tears once the Kozuki attendant tells her Oden died (ch. 970; 971; 972): While Toki behaves like there's no way Oden could possibily die during his execution, the moment she receives news of his death she tears up the letter Oden sent her - a letter in which he told her what she should do after his death - and cries by herself, right before steeling her resolution;

[dark palm]

[dark palm]

I feel her summoning a bunch of dudes while Toko was mourning her father would have been beneficial

[plush pike]

I never said her devil fruit was summoning.

[dark palm]

or at least scaring off the ninjas

so... what would it be then?

like, projection?

[plush pike]

I don't know, something healing related?

[night jewel]

atleast he realized that toki was crying over oden's death, unlike literally anyone who posts that page over and over again

[dark palm]

aren't we discussing why hiyori's devil fruit could be the reason behind oden's existence here?

or do you think she literally healed him from death

[plush pike]

Oh no, I just saw someone say that Hiyori having a devil fruit was ridiculous or something above, and asked why that would be the case.

[dusky acorn]

Yeah, the Reddit post only talked about Hiyori having a dream or hallucionary ability

[dark palm]

^

[sand robin]

Why Hiyori doing that to scabbard ?

[dark palm]

like, she could have some healing ability or what have you, we're discussing this specifically

in the context of reasons for oden

[plush pike]

Yeah, I doubt she alone is behind the entire Oden situation. She wouldn't try to deceive them with the death of their old mentor like that.

[sand robin]

Hiyori healing have hallucination effect ?

[dark palm]

lol

[plush pike]

One thing that bothers me about the whole Onimaru theory, is that it's hellah disrespectful to pretend to be their dead daimyo that they worshipped.

[loud ibex]

Kms break this week , oda ain’t even going touch in oden this commuting up chapter LOL

[plush pike]

Imagine someone pretended to be Ace to cheer Luffy up.

[dark palm]

I don't think it's to cheer them up

[loud ibex]

Coming *

[plush pike]

Fire them up, inspire them, whatever. Is there another reason?

[sand robin]

Or maybe the healing will help scabbard regain their confident, meeting their mentor is like luke meet yoda

[dark palm]

To convince them to stay in the room instead of leaving and helping out

since they're deathly injured

[plush pike]

I mean, not injured enough for Jack to say a flying six would be enough to defeat them.

[night jewel]

even the OP forgot about the fact that Bb sailed with 3 scabbards and oden, i swear it will be relevant someday even if its not in this case...

[dark palm]

that's just jack speculating, he has no clue

and he's more speaking to how strong they are

no doubt some of the would succumb to their injuries if they went out there and fought strong dudes

[plush pike]

How strong they are while injured.

[dark palm]

he doesn't know the extent of their injuries lol

[thick sky]

He knows neko and inuarashi's strength, he's estimating based on that

[dark palm]

and that doesn't mean they'll be durable enough to survive

in a full war scenario

it's dangerous no matter what way you spin it

[plush pike]

Also, Oden telling them to stay put wouldn't raise their suspicions right away? Oden was the personification of the restrictive annoyed face.

[sand robin]

The question is are the conversation with oden in illusions is enough for scabbard to recover and fight Jack ?

[pastel summit]

yes, a war is dangerous. but they're not incapacitated. idk, I feel like just going around and telling everyone with some injuries to stop fighting in a war is kinda... weird.

[plush pike]

And Oden literally put down his life in order for the raid to succeed.

[dark palm]

I mean, they're still pretty incapacitated past the visual bandage healing

especially to the one who just healed them, who would know the depth of their wounds

and regarding Oden, I think the FACT that he would normally just charge in would speak to the severity of the situation here. They are needed for the future of wano, and it's instrumental that they trust their allies

[thick sky]

How are they able to move with just few minutes of recovery and bandages

[dark palm]

Honestly, the only thing I'm unsure about in this theory is onimaru's powers

been longer than a few minutes

[plush pike]

If they stay put, then they risk Momo dying and the entire raid being a failure. They are needed for that.

[thick sky]

And there are more than enough healing dfs already

[dusky acorn]

Tbf Choc even if this is a war, people not rushing to their deaths is a decently big theme for our alliance as of late

[sand robin]

Oden : u all become old
Kinemon : Master T_T
Oden : u become strong kinemon, may the force be with u (disappear)
Kinemon:......., Anyone get up , we have unfinished business here
All Scabbard: Yeah

[dusky acorn]

Not only did Hyogoro survive even though he said he had no regrets, but he even told Yatappe to take his time and not be in a rush to die, just because Hyogoro would

[dark palm]

kin's words imply he's basically planning to die

[plush pike]

Knowing Oda, it wouldn't surprise me if he made Hiyori have some kind of body heat healing kind of deal, first shown when Zoro healed during the night she slept on him.

[dark palm]

also, it's been quite a bit of time in this case

[opal nest]

What if they're seeing Oden on Hiyori?
Because I genuinely don't think the shadowy figure we saw was this "Oden"
So the scabbards might be legitimately hallucinating

[dark palm]

their wounds were cleaned, they were bandaged, and they were able to rest

[thick sky]

Wouldnt it have been around 10-15 minutes at the most?

[dark palm]

I mean, they were teleported down in 1000

and luffy's gear four ran out already in like, 1003/1004

[plush pike]

"It was all a dream/hallucination" is kind of a weak plot point, but beyond the meta reason, I don't see a reason to believe it's a hallucination in the first place.

[dark palm]

I honestly think everything that's going to be said about this has been said sadly

we've reached that stage

[plush pike]

Yeah possibly

[sand robin]

They become faint after battle with two yonko, so have conversation with their mentor Oden will make them confident again to fight

[dark palm]

not if Oden emphasizes that their contributions were enough and that they shouldn't be ashamed

directly contrasting kin's words in 1000

[plush pike]

Could it be possible that Oden is an actual ghost though? Big mom did destroy a sacred tree said to house souls in Japanese mythology no?

If there's anyone with unfinished business, it would be Oden.

[dark palm]

that's a new one

sacred seems oddly specific

[opal nest]

Well damn, that would hold some significance...
I would be a bit mad since we haven't seen ghosts besides some df made ones...

[dark palm]

I would just roll my eyes, would be very strange

[sacred hawk]

If Kid tries to grab Big Mom with Punk Rotten while she's riding Zeus, would she get shocked?

[plush pike]

It makes sense though, that ghosts are possible with a strong enough willpower.

[pastel summit]

would be strange if ghost of oden didn't take on his appearance he had at his death

[opal nest]

Probably not, but it would be a funny gag

[plush pike]

We haven't even seen Big Mom get injured yet. Despite what people are saying about Law injuring her.

[grizzled fog]

Well law hurt her. Just not by any significant amount

[dark palm]

countershock merely tickled

based on what it did to vergo, no chance it did anything

[plush pike]

We don't know because there's literally no wound. It could just be a significant amount of force on her skin that shook her.

[dark palm]

just shocked her in that moment

[opal nest]

BM should have less physical resistance to damage than Kaidou tho, right?

[grizzled fog]

Well it definitely did damage, just not much fresh

[dark palm]

she's still got a crazy amount, bege talked about it

[sand robin]

So the best theory Hiyori power is healing with hallucination effect

[plush pike]

Why? She is the only person known to have never taken damage, unlike Kaido. Except when she scraped her knee during the picture of Mother Carmel incident.

[night jewel]

tbf, vergo did bleed from it and got all scrstched up, doffy bled heavily as well ( although it was after gamma knife ig)

[dusky acorn]

No Shiryu, that's the exact theory we were all shooting down lol

[grizzled fog]

Vergo never really showed any signs of pain tbh, think he was just good and touching it out

[night jewel]

yea he was definitely toughing it out

[plush pike]

I think Big Mom's tankiness is the strongest in the series, but that's just my view on it.

[night jewel]

he didnt show any signs of panicking or anything throughout the arc except in the end iirc so it makes sense why he didnt react to the damage all that much

[sand robin]

She have unlimited lifespan thank to soul she eat

[plush pike]

That's a possibility.

[sand robin]

If this game maybe BM have 9999 HP

[night jewel]

i mean surely, if it did damage to doffy, it would have done something to vergo lol, dont think armament stops internal shock

[opal nest]

Surely all the homies she has should balance it out to an extent however(?
Though I'm sure most of it does go towards her

[plush pike]

If Luffy's strongest attack deals 500 damage at most, maybe.

But I view it more as her armor is 9999 absorption points, and her HP is also pretty big.

[opal nest]

Lol, the hp thing would make sense when you get reminded that Oda viewed One Piece as an rpg to an extent, tho he only mentioned it when talking about recruits...

[plush pike]

SBS?

[opal nest]

It was in an interview, if I remember correctly

[plush pike]

Ah okay.

[opal nest]

I know he talked about how that was how he planned for 10 strawhats and what not

[plush pike]

Hm..

[sand robin]

BM weakness is she can become enraged and kill her own ally, so the probability she kill kaido is huge, if she think kaido is weak, bm will backstabs kaido

[plush pike]

For sure yeah. She already told Perospero she has a plan.

Plus, I'm still waiting for the payoff to the whole amnesia thing.

[sand robin]

Amnesia is just oda distraction to us thinking that BM will join Luffy

[plush pike]

When she peacefully interacted with Otsuru and Tama, and promised to share oshiruko with them.

[plush pike]

I don't know, I don't think it's as shallow a plot point as that.

Like, she still has not been able to eat oshiruko, I think it's just a matter of time before she goes into another hunger pang.

[sand robin]

Some theory said the amnesia was the effect after BM drowning by sea water

[plush pike]

Well that's not a theory, that's what happened.

[brisk mirage]

Sorry catching up with chat, but

🦀 SACRED TREE RESURRECTED ODEN 🦀

[pure raven]

i heard earlier that mihawk was a revolutionary

[plush pike]

More like made him a ghost.

[pure raven]

working as a spy for the revolutionary army*

[errant oxide]

I don’t think Mihawk has any realistic goals and is more of an observer. He’d likely be an ally to someone, shanks or possibly revolutionary, but otherwise he doesn’t have a main goal

[plush pike]

I see him as too much of an honorable character to ever be a spy for the celestial dragons.

Oh, well as a revolutionary, wouldn't he be, you know, actively working to bring down the CDs instead of sitting in his castle?

[pure raven]

there’s a chapter where he’s in the background of dragon and the V chin guy(forgot his name) i have the pic of u wanna see it

[plush pike]

Yes post it

[plush pike]

Eh, that's not Mihawk. he's wearing a cowboy hat.

[pure raven]

it’s a figure like him, idk if it’s him or not

[errant oxide]

he could still be an ally, but the revolutionaries are trying to take down the world government. I doubt Mihawk has such goals to the point where he wants to actively help them fight for it

[plush pike]

The fluffy stuff is nowhere to be seen on that hat.

[pure raven]

true, but he might be working with the enemy

[plush pike]

What enemy?

[pure raven]

the revolutionary army’s enemy is technically the world government right

[plush pike]

Really? Mihawk working for the WG? Why would they send ships to capture/defeat him then?

And Mihawk being excited about being chased again?

[pure raven]

i’m confused on the concept, isn’t he a emporer

[plush pike]

He used to be a warlord. Are you caught up with the story?

[copper frost]

Mihawk is a warlord

[errant oxide]

Was a warlord

[pure raven]

no, i’ll come back to this when i am tho

[copper frost]

Kaboom, episode 745

[plush pike]

Ah yes, I wouldn't want to spoil you too much 😄

[night jewel]

its just a random guy, the swords dont match lol

[copper frost]

In the context you're in, Mihawk is a warlord atm

[pure raven]

yes

[night jewel]

oh and be sure to stay in #catching-up , this is #manga-theories , for people who are caught up with the manga

[errant oxide]

Mihawk is also rooting for Luffy and Zoro and “friends” with Shanks

[sinful wedge]

Greg texted Oda about how surprised he was with the last page

Oda replied with a lol ok

[tiny forum]

There are two persons with same face that's all I will say

It's about oden thing

[brisk mirage]

I just think Mihawk had to find a new purpose after ascending to the top of all swordsmen, and losing his main rival Shanks. Someone with so much drive and motivation to become the best wouldn’t just sit around drinking wine all day every day once he achieved a goal. He would create a new goal to reach.

So honestly some sort of spy Mihawk isn’t out of the question for me.

[errant oxide]

I don’t think Mihawk ever claimed himself to be the strongest or having ever wanted to be the strongest... not sure though

[plush pike]

I think he wants Zoro to reach his full potential so he can get himself a good fight. A lot of strong characters in this show just want to test their full strength against someone else. Like Roger/Whitebeard fight.

[tiny forum]

👍🏻 good point

[errant oxide]

I like that. He wants to face Zoro as a strong opponent so he was willing to train him. And he is just really interested in Luffy and his capabilities, which is also why he said he wouldn’t refrain from trying to kill him.

But other than that I don’t see any clear motives to take down the government or anything

[lunar shell]

He did, not just that, he told zoro he would keep his title until zoro is ready

[errant oxide]

Oh right he did say that

[stoic girder]

Azure Dragon=Kaido
White tiger=Yamato?
Red Vermillion=Hiyori?
Black Tortoise=CP0 agent???

[brisk mirage]

He doesn’t claim it himself, but everyone that ever encounters him immediately refers to him as “The Worlds Strongest/Greatest Swordman”

[wind geode]

Red vermillion / Phoenix = Marco

[stoic girder]

Marco isn't a red vermillion oof

[thick sky]

marco is a phoenix - close to vermillion (not red )

[lime python]

Marco will be covered in red after King, Queen, and Pero are done with him

[stoic girder]

God damn

[thick sky]

The Azure Dragon, the Blue Dragon in Chinese astrology, symbolizes power and strength. The colour pink symbolizes kindness, compassion and unconditional understanding. And Momo's failed dragon fruit is pink

[stoic girder]

Goro with the big brain

when no one realizes red vermilions are known as great singers. Sad times

[thick sky]

what was kaido seen as by wano people or said to be seen as wano people

something like guardian or soaring the skies god or something like that?

[stoic girder]

They did mention something like that. They referred to him as a guardian.

[night jewel]

Wisdom king/myo o i think

[stoic girder]

I thought that was for the raws for luffy? I might be remembering things wrong but yea kaido was mentioned as a diety/guardian.

[thick sky]

anyway, I had a passing thought that there was a reason for momo's df dragon being pink. Power and strength vs kindness. the dragon soaring the skies would still be the protector of Wano's realm but from a power/destruction to a kind, compassionate one

[thick sky]

wise god / protector of their realm

[night jewel]

its the same for kaido, but viz mistranslated it

[stoic girder]

It's poetic when you think about it

[night jewel]

both are called wisdom kings

[stoic girder]

Nice

[thick sky]

which chapter was it Arsal. gotta check the raws

[night jewel]

will have to check again, i think kiku was the one who said it tho, gimme a sec

[stoic girder]

For the luffy one i'm pretty sure it's chapter 989
Idk about the kaido one

[thick sky]

921

[stoic girder]

bet

[thick sky]

kaido's at 921

the raws aren't loading

[night jewel]

viz

[thick sky]

yea. trying to check the raws if they mentioned myoo for kaido too. but mangant is showing error for that chapter

[thick sky]

anyways, what's your views on this

[stoic girder]

raws

[wide star]

momo's dragon fruit being pink makes sense, look at the flower capital

[stoic girder]

Did you just reply to yourself?

[wide star]

it's all sakura flowers, that's symbolism at its finest

[stoic girder]

it's all coming together

[copper frost]

to make people notice what he said, nothing wrong there

[wide star]

also the tree growing over the shogunate home, yeah that's gonna be a momonosuke moment

[stoic girder]

Fun fact: Japanese is very hard to read

[thick sky]

Yes that's wisdom king.

[stoic girder]

Men kiku is getting a lot of attention today

[thick sky]

明王 - myo or wisdom king

[night jewel]

yea viz mistranslated it harsh

[thick sky]

Or rather they simplified it

To make it understandable for more people; those who don't know about wisdom king

[stoic girder]

I'm expecting oden's ghost to show up at the end of the onigashima raid seeing as the night of the fire festival is to celebrate the dead.

Actually it could be like a lion king moment where Oden is celebrating his sons growth

[gloomy stone]

when was this

[plush pike]

Dude the fire festival celebrates the dead? I must have missed that.

That makes the "Oden in 1007 is a ghost" theory a little more plausible.

[hazy wing]

i think urouge knows enel was defeated by luffy

he went to sky island where he saw kaidou so he might have heard of luffy's exploits in skypeia

[plush pike]

He may have, but there's no reason to think he was anywhere near Skypeia, given that you know, Kaido jumped down into the New World, while Skypeia is hovering around Jaya.

[zinc iris]

maybe but there actually are several sky islands, and the one where urouge met kaido was pretty distant from Skypiea

rather, Urouge himself is from a sky island and started his piracy career in the first half of the grind line
however by the timeline he should have left the sky well before luffy came there

[hazy wing]

but still enel's defeat news should have spread like wildfire considering how tyrant he was and so people would be relieved to know that he is gone

[open ocean]

i think the next arc is elbaf arc

and i think hiyori will be zoro's wife because oden is a swordsman that met toki just my theory

mihawk has 3 million bounty when he was not a warlord

marco will go to wano to help the supernovas

luffy's gear 5 vs kaido's hybrid form

the last arc will be blackbeard pirates vs strawhats

[junior shoal]

Last arc won't be that simple with too much going outside after levely

[acoustic helm]

That's oda's test as author

[open ocean]

the will of d is dreams rock d xebec has a d and marshall d teach has a d they have the same dreams they want to rule the world and roger and luffy has a same dream i think freedom

if the poseidon is under water and the pluton is from the surface of water then maybe the uranus has the power in the sky

the uranus meaning of greek god of heaven/sky

[sharp cape]

wasn’t crocodile looking for uranus?

[open ocean]

yeh

at alabasta

[errant oxide]

What about other D’s? Ace? Law? And other people have dreams too... We don’t call her Nico D. Robin...

[open ocean]

maybe same has luffy

[errant oxide]

Ace wanted to make Whitebeard the king of the pirates... that’s a lil different

[open ocean]

but whitebeard just wanted a family

[dark palm]

Pluton, not uranus

[errant oxide]

And pretty sure Saul didn’t wanna be king of the pirates or rule the world

[dark palm]

Uranus is the one we don’t know right now

[acoustic helm]

Clouds similar to oden

[open ocean]

i think the cp5 will kill orochi

is that a spoiler?
\

[acoustic helm]

CP0?

[open ocean]

yeh i mean cp0

[acoustic helm]

It's a theory u wanna put

[open ocean]

i dont have a theory to put

[acoustic helm]

Then it's a prediction

[open ocean]

yup

i have a theory on joyboy i think joyboy wants the mermaid princess back ago and joyboy rejected im sama and they start a war and joyboy loss he is inlove in the mermaid princess maybe she said he will raise the fishman race so that there are no racist/discrimination

[acoustic helm]

If momo is joyboy and shirahoshi says that momo is her type, then people will call her pedo

[open ocean]

what?

[terse venture]

what?

[terse venture]

he's already dead

[open ocean]

my bad i didnt know im not a manga reader and im episode 346

[acoustic helm]

Think again , if oden has same cloud behind him as orochi, kanjuro might be at play here,or fukurojo

[acoustic helm]

Go to anime then, sho sho 😂

[grizzled fog]

#catching-up is recommended, there are spoilers in this channel

[pure raven]

do u guys think that CP0 will get 2 know that momo has similar df as of kaido depending on above panel

[acoustic helm]

If momo acts daringly ,they will certainly notice similarity to koido df

Then they would like to kill him

[quartz zenith]

Who?

[pure raven]

momo

[quartz zenith]

Who is "they"

[acoustic helm]

Or runaway ,and next day newspaper be like ,the devil himself , kozuki momonosuke bounty upto 2 billion

[acoustic helm]

Cp0

I believe whatever cp0 guys says , the opposite happens

[pure raven]

they r just enjoying it like a movie

[acoustic helm]

Senior intelligence officials 😂

[pure raven]

[acoustic helm]

It would be fun if they are caught

[pure raven]

"fun" ?

[acoustic helm]

Think how would the story go then

Robin full demon mode

Cp0 sweating like pigs seeing robin demonic aura in anime

[pure raven]

hehehe

🤣

[upbeat wasp]

All i can see is Robin awakeing is making clones of all size and stomping a person out XD

[thick sky]

any newer Oden theories?

[acoustic helm]

Nope

[amber oar]

Robin doing mirage tempo but with physical clones

[dark palm]

The meta dried up, nothing will shift it anymore

Onimaru and Kanjuro are the OPs, patch will come out in about 2 weeks

[outer galleon]

tell me what you think:

The silhouette is actually Toki. Toki can assumedly look into the future so it is possible that she saw the difficult position that the scabbards and allies would be in when they are finally fighting Kaido. Now, knowing that Oden would die and also knowing that travelling backwards in time is impossible until said otherwise, it is only possible for Toki to have sent an image of Oden into the future. What I mean is that only Oden's appearance is projected forwards in time.

So essentially the Oden we see is a superimposition of Oden's image over Toki's actual physical body

[dark palm]

She can’t see into the future

If you’re referring to the prophecy, that was just what she said in reference to what Oden told her

[outer galleon]

no just assumed she was able to see the future based on her fruit

[sinful wedge]

I'm hoping for Denjro to be the first person to see through this imposter

[outer galleon]

seems pretty reasonable to me that the person owning the time travel fruit has some clairvoyance of sorts

[dark palm]

I think if that were the case she’d be able to generally avoid danger upon teleporting

[outer galleon]

knowledge of the future does not necessarily prevent that future from happening

you know like sometimes in stories people that can see the future cause that future by trying to prevent it

[dark palm]

No, but you can adjust where you teleport from

[outer galleon]

how do you mean

[dark palm]

Since when Toki time jumps, she jumps to where she was last

Exact same place, just however many years ahead

I feel she would be able to plan a safe route under the assumption of a clairvoyant power

[outer galleon]

i mean she should, yes, but people in one piece universe are (luckily) far from perfect rather often

so her power which should enable her to steer the events of the future does not guarantee her to act accordingly

i would chalk it up to ignorance, story-telling or a rule we are unaware of currently

[dark palm]

Additionally, why would Toki be surprised at Oden’s appearance when he initially saved her? She was expecting to have to just jump again.

[outer galleon]

hm good point

[dark palm]

I think her fruit remaining as something that just sends people through time would be more consistent and less... OP? I guess. I dunno, it just seems crazy to have even a 20 year full clairvoyance

[outer galleon]

what about if she can only see possible futures and oden's appearance only occurred in a rather small amount of those futures?

[dark palm]

Then you get into a sort of multiverse situation and that might be a bit too complicated

[outer galleon]

fully agree with you on that, to be honest I'm just trying to figure out how toki's fruit could possibly explain Oden's appearance

guess we'll see

all i currently believe is that for sure is not the real oden

[dark palm]

No doubt, it being the real Oden is the worst possible option

[outer galleon]

defo

[sinful wedge]

I've seen a lot of people saying that it being Onimaru is almost as bad as Oden being alive

[tired osprey]

What if Oden was temporarily sent to the future, and then told toki the prophecy when he came back in the prison cell?

[sinful wedge]

I don't know in what world lol

[outer galleon]

i would prefer backwards timetravel to be avoided

as that reduces the possibility for logical paradoxa

[dark palm]

That’s just the push-back to it being the most prominent theory. I fully believe it could occur, but I also fully believe it won’t.

I just can’t see what else is the thing...

I feel like it’ll be something we don’t expect

[tired osprey]

Seeing is believing bruh

[dark palm]

[sinful wedge]

Nah it's just those battle junkies who want to see a top tier fight again at any cost

[weary cliff]

I've seen that floated a few times as a way for us to have our cake and eat it too. Oden helps take down yonkou but still has to go back and die.

I don't like the implications but at least that theory addresses why Oden in a somewhat satisfactory way. Because for as plausible as onimaru is, it would make this whole Oden cliffhanger a major disappointment for a number of readers

[pastel summit]

onimaru is nowhere near as bad as oden being alive, but I just personally don't see a good option. but we'll see if oda can actually manage to spin this into being good.

[dark palm]

I do think there’s room for it to be good

It mostly depends on the explanation for turning into Oden

Since the rest of the variables are already good

I wonder how he’d rationalize onimaru’s power as well

[sinful wedge]

I just feel like if it is going to be an ally like Onimaru, Oda should've gotten done with it in this chapter itself

[quartz zenith]

You dont write a weekly serialized manga with that mindset

[dark palm]

I mean, I agree on the chapter to chapter tone pivot being a possibility, but I don’t think that’s necessarily valid

[sinful wedge]

Yeah I was going to say just that

[pastel summit]

this is... not really satisfactory. I don't think Oden coming back, just as a way to turn the battles is satisfactory. Feels incredibly convenient and contrived, on top of that kind of weird time travel being actively denied within the scope of toki's abilities, so it relies on a contradiction within established rules already.

[ancient vault]

On top of that the last chapters of his flashback lose their meaning

[dark palm]

And momo’s character arc goes back to square 1 lol

[ancient vault]

yup lol

[dark palm]

Way to revamp the image of Oden everyone sees behind him

[weary cliff]

I don't disagree. It's just one of few ideas that rationalize why it's Oden we're seeing that doesn't boil down to shock value. Because a lot of the transformation explanations beg the question "why oden". The other one that I actually kind of like is Kanjuro. If it's a betrayal it makes sense, and if he's trying to help, he might just resort to the twisted idea of conjuring their dead master

[ebon scaffold]

So where is hawkins ?

[sinful wedge]

He is that MJ popcorn meme right now

[pastel summit]

Yes, but I think having a poor motivation for why someone would imitate oden is a lot better than having an explanation for why actually oden is there.

[weary cliff]

We'll just have to wait and see. I have hope Oda can pull it off, but I'm not overly optimistic any sort of gotcha moment won't feel cheap. Including it actually being him somehow

[pastel summit]

I don't think Kanjuro is that great either. I think some kind of redemption arc for him would just be inappropriate considering his role in all this, and if he was trying to defeat them, they were all knocked out anyway, so he could've done it before they got up.

[dark palm]

Hearing all this “cheap” talk wayyyyy before we actually see the moment is disheartening

Feel like if it is one of the fake Oden outcomes people are just going to slander it no matter what, due to setting themselves up that way.

[quartz zenith]

The people in here obsessing over who the Oden is or isnt are a superminority of ppl who read One Piece. Im not gonna be mad some people ruined a story by over thinking it.

[weary cliff]

Would you blame them? If its Onimaru trying to get them to stand down, we can agree it makes sense, but Oda would have still riled up the fanbase with a bs fake reveal cliffhanger