manga-theories

[frail lava]

isn't it said that it "disappear" and not just get destroyed?

[green roost]

what if that happened to the cerberus fruit lol they found it and destroyed it out of spite

[lyric dust]

it was wiped off the map

[ancient vault]

Also I think shaky gave another hint to Xebecs character being the one of a brutal murderer. Including civilians

As well as her basically being in the crew lol

[dusky acorn]

Yeah the official does say the island vanished without a trace, pretty strange

[frail lava]

yeah the way he said that is suspicious as if their is a special reason under

[dusky acorn]

There was a theory someone had earlier here that it was blown up by the knock up stream, but that sounds redundant

[ancient vault]

Here she mentions how kid kills even innocent civilians and then she goes on to say that she is on luffys side (not kids). I feel like connecting with what I gathered before this might be a hint as to Rocks killing whoever he desired to including well innocent civilians.
She didnt like this thus she decided to leave the crew 42 years ago

Maybe she despised the idea of Rocks so desperately wanting to become the King of the World and thats why she admires luffy even more after saying he doesnt want to be a king of some sorts or conquer something

[lyric dust]

hmmm

[small meadow]

hear me out, i think that in 1007 the oden might be kanjuros painting

[ancient vault]

nah he dead

[small meadow]

but like its weird like you know how he "died" like that

[tired osprey]

official translation made me even more confident it is actually oden

[ancient vault]

I forgot to ping oli

[tired osprey]

whats that

[ancient vault]

posted a new theory above oli if you want to read

@green roost I gotta take a shower so I'll drop this here real quick. This is about Roche Braziliano most likely Rocks D. Xebecs real life inspiration

Braziliano started as a regular sailor but then was later on elected to captain by his own vessels to be captain in a rebel. In a small barque they went on to take over a big spanish ship loaded with lots of gold

Drunken and debauched, Braziliano would threaten to shoot anyone who did not drink with him.

He told me that no one in the world was worth fighting for because no one valued the noble characteristics that people had. The only thing that people valued was money. ‘I will become un pirata to steal all the money, Cristiano. Then, slowly, I will take away all the other things that people think are valuable: land, animals, boats, everything. I want it all, Cristiano. People only value life more than money. Once that is threatened by me, people will give me anything to protect it. And I will become the king of the world. El Rey del Mundo

He only came out at those times when we either saw land or other ships. And, of course, we had our drinking sessions every night. He would come out of his office for ten minutes and strut around the ship to examine what each of us were doing. If he saw any of us gambling, he demanded us to give him our money. If we refused, he slit our throats. After doing this, he would grab two of us by our hair and pull us to his room to have a drink with him. If we resisted, he would shoot us in the mouth with his arquebus. Like I said, Señor: no one was his friend. We were all more of slaves than crewmen aboard that ship.

“He was a very prolific pirate. He captured many ships and took all the booty aboard them. And this is the reason why you want to arrest him, no? Because he did this to so many ships at sea? It was a loss in money for the government, so you people took interest in finding and arresting him. Do you know what he did to people like you, Señor? You and your government amigos? Terrible things. He hated you people. He hated you for valuing money so much. Let me tell you about a particular incident that I remember clearly. One that you probably never heard of because it dealt with money of the people and not the government.

Btw El Rey del Mundo means King of the World

[tired osprey]

interesting

[green roost]

[ancient vault]

This is the source https://sites.google.com/site/talesofferociouspirates/roche-brasiliano

Everything that is written in this story occurred, and the descriptions that I have given about his character are well-recorded.

Some of it is made up the core of it is true tho.
Also interesting is that Braziliano disappeared completely. Noone knows whether he died on the sea or went on to live a chill life in some south american country or so

[lyric dust]

ayyyy lmfaooo

[ancient vault]

Yup lmao

[tired osprey]

Oda created so many characters that there are several who shares names now lmao, kaku and kaku, scotch and scotch, rocks and rocks d xebec, tsuru and otsuru

[lyric dust]

The wiki also states that his first mate "eventually became a captain in his own right," which kinda strengthens the connection between Brazilliano and Xebec since basically all of the former members of Rocks' crew became the captain of their own pirate crew

[lyric dust]

wait whos the other rocks

[tired osprey]

one of the cool bros

[lyric dust]

oh yeah, him lol

[tired osprey]

oh his name is only rock, had to double check

[lyric dust]

same thing lol, the yeti cool brothers page redirects to Rocks anyways

[tired osprey]

thought it would be rocks since, "scotch on the rocks"

[queen arrow]

Rock and Scotch, the Yeti Cool Brothers

[slim socket]

ODEN in 1007
For me i think it is hiyori she has a devil fruit illusion illusion no mi she healed them physically and now wants to heal them morally she created an illusion of oden to give them a motivation speech that will boost their moral and it will end by i m dead guys but you are not so go carry on my will and never lose hope the dawn is waiting for you save wano and then hiyori will appear and tell them thats what my father would say to you if he was alive cheer up

[lyric dust]

??????????????

that was pretty hard to comprehend but uh.... yeah (??)

[dusky acorn]

I think Hiyori having some kind of delusionary devil fruit or anything related wouldn't make any sense with how she was desperately running away from Killer, without even an inkling of fighting back.
Like, the situation was so dire back then you'd think she'd at least try retaliating with some kind of delusion inducing power on him, but nothing ever came to.

[shadow jewel]

I think Frog guys reaction was too extreme for it to be Hiyori

[still pewter]

theres a time traveling fruit user who was in wano.... just gonna drop this "bombshell"

[lyric dust]

There was

[still pewter]

http://prntscr.com/10lms07

[lyric dust]

well you said "theres" which is present

[still pewter]

youre arguing my grammar cos you dont want to acknowledge the time travel theory

everyone is so against it lol... why?? its one oft he coolest theorys

[polar bison]

she was an instant away from dying. if she had even the toki toki as some believe, surely she’d have used it (just a day or so) on her and toko to survive?

[zinc iris]

well that was a lot

however i think the D was something the WG was aware from before, they do know about their story, they just want to hide it from the lower people

[dusky acorn]

Yeah that moment basically cancels out an absolute plethora of fruits for her and just being a DF user in general is basically gone for Hiyori. If she had ANY kind of power, she'd probably have gone out of her way to use it just for assurance.
There was never any guarantee the two samurai she saw on the bridge would save her anyway, Zoro stepping in was pretty much a surprise in that moment

[zinc iris]

doflamingo because he was a CD knew about the national treasure that is supposed to be as ancient as the WG itself, and the Gorosei know about what happened with the ancient kingdom

[dusky acorn]

And yet, in her final moments all she could do was kneel back and shut her eyes as her fate was decided

[lyric dust]

because its so stupid

[still pewter]

well oda wrote in time travel to one piece so its a very possible theory

[lyric dust]

no its not possible because they're both dead

[still pewter]

and onimaru cannot transform into anyone he pleases,

[lyric dust]

and how do you know that?

[green roost]

we dont know that

[still pewter]

exactly.

[green roost]

no u exactly

[copper frost]

You've made no point

[still pewter]

you dont know.

[green roost]

you dont either, so he very well can, a large possibility

[still pewter]

just like kawamatsu doesnt know who he saw

[short lodge]

what's the topic?

[copper frost]

Onimaru has that benefit of a doubt of being able to shapeshift into other humans or other forms

[green roost]

we dont know the full extent of his abilities, thats why the chance of him is still possible, meanwhile we saw oden die and we know toki died

[still pewter]

ill go as far to say that gyukimaru ate the fox fox fruit and onimaru is what people called his fox form

[ancient vault]

Maybe you misunderstood me. Thats not what I was saying. I was specifically talking about the lazy Celestial Dragons. Obviously the gorosei etc. knew about all this already. What Im saying is that Celestial Dragons in the time between Rocks era and the void century have continuously been losing their fear of the D.s more and more simply because (from our knowledge) nothing really happened around that time. Only with Rocks actively wanting to murder them their fear had skyrocketed back up

[still pewter]

🙂

[green roost]

the fox is the base form, its always been around the daimyio who slightly looks like zoro lol , gyukimaru is the fake name it took upon

[dusky acorn]

Onimaru being able to transform into other forms seems likely. It would be very strange if that huge bulky form was his only default look lol. It seems more plausible to simply be for that exact role he was choosing to play as Gyukimaru..

[green roost]

foxes in myth can shapeshift to their own original creations plus copies of people

[copper frost]

You realise you do not make any sense right? You know shape shifting foxes are a thing in Wano? And it's mythology?

[still pewter]

yeah you can go with this ass pull, when tokis df was hinted before oden died.

[green roost]

besides, catarina devon already has a 9 tail fox fruit that does the same thing, thats why people dont think its just another fox fruit, but something a bit different going on

[still pewter]

[ancient vault]

My point was that the Celestial Dragons (ppl like charlos) dont really care about their history except for the fact that theyre gods and so they got careless and were pretty unconcerned over things until Rocks appeared and made them aware again that the D. is still alive and is still after their heads

[ancient vault]

Woah I didnt know that. Must've overlooked that but yes this just supports it even more

[zinc iris]

rocke literally means rock 🪨

however the brazilian

[lost lake]

is this the channel where we talk about the manga that came out today

[fair cobalt]

#manga #also-manga

[ancient vault]

what do yo mean?

[zinc iris]

that roche braziliano is something like brazilian rock

He soon resumed his criminal career, purchasing a new ship from fellow pirate François l'Olonnais
hey it's Lolonoa Zolo

[polar bison]

ehhhh I disagree with this, I think it’s more likely onimaru has a human devil fruit. a lot of stuff that’s traditionally mythical/magical in japanese lore has been translated into devil fruits in wano. unless we see that onimaru is fake Oden, i’m more inclined to believe he’s just a fox with a devil fruit and this is more of the same

[zinc iris]

it's either a DF or there is an entire species of shapeshifting foxes
what One Piece does away with is Unique creatures

[pure raven]

Have there been any new (and serious) Fauxden theories over the past 2 days?

[dusky acorn]

The reason I like to believe he has no fruit at all is just because we already know some sort of mystical creatures are said/shown to exist in Wano naturally.
First, there was the dragon over the capital that existed, and throughout this arc we've met some pretty special animals, like Hihimaru and the Mountain God (I know these are reaches of animals that don't necessarily have special powers like the way I speculate Onimaru to have, but still..)

[copper frost]

[dusky acorn]

Indeed though, having a human fruit if anything is more likely than yet anotheer interpretation of a fox fruit, which would be bland

[ancient vault]

whos fauxden

[pure raven]

False/Fake Oden

[ancient vault]

[fair cobalt]

So I didn't like the theory of Oden being alive and this is most likely a shot in the dark but you never know so, my theory is that before the execution there was a switch for Oden And he obviously couldn't just escape even if he was the scabbards would get killed anyway and there would be a forever chase for him so I think there was a man with the 9 tail fox fruit that Devon has right now who got into the jail and played a fake Oden role my guess would be Shimotsuki Ushimaru but Yasuie did say that every daimyo stood against Kaido and tried to bring him down so I just think it was someone who was really really close and loyal to Oden and would go as far as sacrificing himself and my theory is also that the 9 tail fox fruit could carry people's physical strength hence why he could withstand the boiling oil and carry the 9 scabbards, if he was a loyal member he would also know how oden would act in this situation, then Toki timetravels Oden into the future and I think she would be killed anyway or searched for and not Oden because obviously the fakeout they would think that was Oden in the boiling oil so that happens and I don't really know where this would happen also Kanjuro Momo Kinemon and Raizo would be out of wano so he would only be able to find Kiku but obviously Kiku was hiding her face by not having the mask on with which people recognized her and if Oden just went out normally to wano then he would get recognized and everyone would just chase after him, Oden stays at his own hiding spot and eventually he hears about this plan now here I don't know how he would get onto a ship without getting noticed because he is Oden but maybe with his speed he could pull it off, anyway Oden gets on the enemy ship and waits for the allies to come to Onigashima after a while Oden doesn't hear about anything but suddenly the 9 scabbards get teleported into the room where he is by Law, And the rest is kinda shown, This has alot of flaws but I'm just throwing it out there

[dusky acorn]

I'll admit, before this chapter I firmly believed the monk form was all Onimaru could transform into as well, probably with a fruit, but it's just my way of trying to make this one better theory work out

[fair cobalt]

well that took long

[zinc iris]

so onimaru is a real kitsune?

[dusky acorn]

Yep, that's what I go with

[ancient vault]

Yasuie did say that every daimyo stood against Kaido and tried to bring him down

What Yasuei was talking about here is all Daimyos teaming up to kill Kaido 18 years ago (and all of them failing)

[fair cobalt]

Yeah that's what I meant basically

[ancient vault]

my theory is also that the 9 tail fox fruit could carry people's physical strength hence why he could withstand the boiling oil and carry the 9 scabbards

That is an interesting idea I gotta say

[pure raven]

I'l take this as a resounding no

[weak arrow]

Yet we couldn't have Kawamatsu as a Kappa

[lyric dust]

i think that would be way too overpowered

[boreal rock]

i feel like that theory ruins the importance of Oden’s sacrifice

[lyric dust]

yeh

[ancient vault]

It def has a lot o flaws, it sounds like a fun idea but generally the simple fact that Oden being alive would really ruin the impact of this arc and lessen the importance of his sacrifice makes me despise any oden is alive theory

[fair cobalt]

Yeah I don't really like it either but I saw that no one else really said anything like that so I just threw it out there lol

[ancient vault]

U might be interested in olis theory tho in olis theory oden is dead

[fair cobalt]

My top theory is still that it's Onimaru because I can't really find anything else that would be linked to it

[pure raven]

Wasn't Oli's theory about temporarily sending Oden to the future?

[lyric dust]

i haven't seen it yet, can you link it?

[quick tusk]

SERIOUS THEORIES only.

[vale arrow]

Oh

Nvrmind

[ancient vault]

Lmao adam

[dark palm]

@green roost the sword could just be some random sword they picked up on the battlefield

It wasn’t a piece of evidence I was considering

[pure raven]

Her power cannot send people back in time. 'Temporarily to the future' means forward and back

'had a minor lapse of judgement' no he's still suffering

[gusty rover]

hell, this one of the most plausible explanations I've seen so far

[weak arrow]

I’d say that’s bottom of the barrel

[drowsy osprey]

After re-reading this part, in addition to Whitebeard and Oden’s reactions, this really does have to be something crazy and special.

I hate the moon theory with all my heart but “I want to go to the moon” could actually be something they’d laugh at since in that world it’s reasonably impossible especially since no one here would know too much about the great science advancements in the world

[gusty rover]

I was in denial, so I thought "it has to be someone else, like... Bon Clay", and I started discussing it with my brother, but the more we talked about it, the less sense it made. But I completely forgot about the fox-fox fruit.

[drowsy osprey]

The silhouette looked like Hiyori so I think it’s Onimaru but in that hypothetical I couldn’t even imagine what their motive would be

[weak arrow]

The hour of legend being a fake hour of legend would probably be an even worse outcome than that actually being Oden in the latest chapter

[drowsy osprey]

Also I think the title being Tanuki-kun was a double meaning with Chopper as well as raccoons in Japanese folklore being able to shapeshift into humans

[green roost]

ah okay nevermind then!

[gusty rover]

also, something I noticed with my brother, I don't know if it's important, but Oden swords and his outfit are wrong

[polar bison]

yeah it’s probably important

[weak arrow]

It’s the same outfit

[gusty rover]

our man LOVES to show his legs, that just doesn't sit right with me. Also, the swords are just not his swords. Hyori has one of them, and Zoro has the other. Why would he have any sword now?

[green roost]

i mean by design its a different outfit, but he wore the long version outfit before in the flashback

its one of his attires

[pure raven]

Isn't it just the same but tucked in?

[weak arrow]

Yes lilahk

[green roost]

the shorter version has black edges that run alongside the bottom portion of it, the long one doesnt

but hes worn that outfit in the flashback before, the long one

[lunar whale]

Somebody has great observation haki lol

[sacred hawk]

Honestly, the problem of how Oden could be alive isn't the real issue at all. The real problem is the fact that Oden is alive at all.

[gusty rover]

^^^

[green roost]

hes not

[ancient vault]

I think he meant "would be alive"

[green roost]

i would agree its an issue if hes alive, but he wont be

[gusty rover]

I'm convinced he isn't. He totally died back 20 years ago. That ain't Oden. It wouldn't make any sense narratively.

[sacred hawk]

Because one of the main things that makes the scabbards so compelling is the fact that it's on them to fulfill the final wishes of their fallen lord and accomplish his goal in Oden's place. Oden reappearing now (and without any actual buildup) kind of ruins that

[green roost]

yep, therefore it isnt him

[polar bison]

the bottom portion of the shorter version is just the inner sides of the longer version. it’s the same

[gusty rover]

Oda could've used any other character to save the scabbards, so wHY Oden at all? It's just a weak narrative

[green roost]

oh shit that makes sense lol eitherway hes worn both versions so its a moot point

[lunar whale]

Oda obviously has a reason for putting him there or whoever it is

[light pond]

I think we are looking it in a perspective that this "Oden" is good not that this "Oden" might actually be evil

[green roost]

they didnt need saving here, the shadow already patched them up and they were headed out to battle, this is gonna be about something else for sure since this oden a fake

[lunar whale]

Lurking legend

[gusty rover]

I mean, we've got no reason to think this character is evil. He tended the scabbards.

[green roost]

nah thats a different character altogether

[polar bison]

no he didn’t

[acoustic helm]

Hold horses brother , we don't know anything yet. It's true that if the oden is real then I would be bad narrative

[green roost]

the shadowy figure isnt this fake oden youre seeing here

that shadowy figure had long strand of hair on the side, like hiyori

[light pond]

That could be the fake out since kawamatsu nevet says who tended to them

[gusty rover]

yeah, my memory might be playing with me, as I recall it, the shadow figure looked like a woman. My bad there

[green roost]

there is a chance that the two characters are working together, but they seem to be different characters

its possible theyre not even working together and its a coincidence he appears after her

because bao huang announced the location of the scabbards, everyone would be heading there anyway

[gusty rover]

that's most likely. Maybe Hyori, or this female character, brought Onimaru with her to the castle and then that happened. Assuming this Oden is fake, and it's Onimaru.

[lunar whale]

Or Toki

[green roost]

i dont want to give toki much credence, she should be dead

[light pond]

I wanna say this could be an evil kanjuro drawing but there are many points not lining up. First kanjuro is way beyond injured, secondly the drawing has many flaws from a perspective of someone who knew oden so well, lastly Kanjuro got lost the first time he went here in onigashima so him arriving in where the scabbards is does not line up

[polar bison]

u can safely assume the oden is fake

[green roost]

i always had the slight idea that IF oda planned to bring back kanjuro. the kanjuro we saw "dying" could have been a perfect ink clone that was made to "fake bleed" ink blood and "fake die"

[polar bison]

we saw oden die onscreen and have no reason to believe he was anyone other than who he said

[green roost]

^

[polar bison]

his death was legendary and couldn’t have been done by anyone except him

[light pond]

Yes this could happen too

[polar bison]

this is a fake designed to get emotions out of the scabbards. the main debate is down to whether it’s someone fucking with them, or someone on their side, and who either way that someone is

[light pond]

Wait where is the scabbards again? Was it located near the back entrance? Cause that is where kanjuro at right?

[green roost]

if kanjuro could already make clones perfect enough like the crane, and his own self which can talk too, is it that farfetched he made another clone of himself, but added "ink blood" to it too?

[gusty rover]

I refuse to believe that's a Kanjuro drawing. It's flawed, and I'd love to believe he just died.

[polar bison]

scabbards are in the castle on the second floor

[light pond]

At the back right?

[polar bison]

not rlly

[light pond]

No I meant back side of onigashima?

[polar bison]

oh sure

relatively near it since the castle is at the back of the skull I believe

[light pond]

Then that is near where kanjuro was

[polar bison]

anyway speaking of kanjuro im gonna post my list of evidence from earlier this week here

[light pond]

A crane drawing could potentially get him near

[polar bison]

fair warning I haven’t edited it since thursday so it may be bad and wrong

[light pond]

IMO if it is kanjuro then hiyori is the one who saved the scabbards and this Oden is an evil fake one

Wouldnt it be satisfying to see the scabbards vs kanjuro, orochi and fukurukujo their 3 most rival in wano

[weak arrow]

Hiyori mending up the scabbards and then being kidnapped by Kanjuro means Kanjuro is following through on what he said.

[light pond]

We knew fukurukujo went somewhere and kanjuro was not confirmed dead orochi well we all knew that one

[gusty rover]

a thought came to my head. Assuming that this fake Oden is Onimaru, why would he chose that form?

easy. To make Kaido shit his pants.

[green roost]

can very well happen, the fake oden isnt even kanjuro, hes still somewhere nearby hidden, if hes really part of this

[light pond]

Fuku could have help kanjuro then get his master orochi and then an all out war for the scabbards

[green roost]

the drawings dont cover him, he sends them out, so hes somewhere hiding

[light pond]

Juba has a great theory for that just see pins

[gusty rover]

oh :o

[polar bison]

Kanjurou is probs alive and behind the Oden appearance and Orochi’s probable survival:

• he’s been shown capable of planning for his own death (had an ink clone ready on the scabbard boat), and he went into the battle with the scabbards stating he knew they’d come, and that he knew them better than anyone. https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/738989825645871205/819744717180502036/image0.png if I were him, i’d therefore know i’d lose that battle - because i know how strong my former comrades are - and so fake my death instead of truly facing them.

• especially since kanjurou’s liege, orochi, was terrified by the impending raid and desperately trying to account for it, https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/213900349403168769/820791854277722182/image0.png and kanjurou is completely loyal to him https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/213900349403168769/820791860800782366/image0.png

• this allows him the ability to lay low (he has experience as a ninja and a spy, and a handy devil fruit) without pressure from enemies.

• so maaaaaybe he saved Orochi’s life with an ink clone if orochi’s df didn’t? we’ve seen before that his ink clones can persist past death, after all - https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/477571830941614080/820785210849230889/image0.png

• because like, this chapter heavily leans towards Orochi being alive. the CP0 leader taking an interest in Momo can only be achieved if someone tells him of Momo’s df. If Kanjurou or his own devil fruit didn’t save him, then Fukurokuju, the guy in japanese folklore known for reviving the dead, probably did some wack shit.

• Kanjurou knows about Momo’s devil fruit, and therefore Orochi can know and can tell the CP0 leader about Momo (and maybe promise to give him to the leader), in order to get some power/leverage back and again make himself a threat, which was the main question of why bring Orochi back. CP0/Vegapunk are the answer and always were, ever since their Wano intro with Orochi.

• bc Orochi alone is nothing, but Orochi with an ally and leverage over them? That’s where Orochi thrives best. and he has plenty of targets for revenge rn, between the scabbards and kaidou.

• so Kanjurou, either of his own volition or on Orochi’s orders for whatever reason, has probably drawn this Oden to fuck with the scabbards.

• because like. let’s be real here. who knows the scabbards well enough, and knows Oden well enough, and has the means, to be showing this fake Oden to them right now? it’s only Kanjurou. the man is doing this to fuck with them.

• we’ve seen him create lifelike figures before. it’d be weird if he didn’t use Oden against them.

• so yeah. uh. he’s maybe linked back up with orochi and fukurukujo, and him or all of them may just uhhh bully the scabbards until Momo, Shinobu, and Yamato arrive. maybe Hiyori’s there too.

• Basically I think this chapter has clearly set up the Wano contingents on both sides heading towards a fight with each other, likely over the life of Momo due to his multiple levels of importance to both sides.

As a side note, this chapter also all but confirmed that Hiyori was the person who saved them. She has hidden herself after healing them, because as she says, there must be no emotions during a battle.

[green roost]

"if I were him, i’d therefore know i’d lose that battle - because i know how strong my former comrades are - and so fake my death instead of truly facing them. " this was a huge one for me, i thought this much would have been obvious for him, he seemingly wasted his life for nothing like that, if theres no ulterior motive/plan

[light pond]

Heavily leaning on the two theories of either onimaru or kanjuro drawing cause the other just dont make enough sense

[ancient vault]

Kanjuro alvie theories
I'll read it in a bit toshiro

[weak arrow]

I mean no notable character deaths are happening all around. Denjiro not killing Sasaki, Peros not killing Carrot, the scabbards not killing Kanjuro, Kaido at least tried to kill Orochi, but failed

[green roost]

oda really making the next chapter anticipated af

[ancient vault]

the scabbards not killing Kanjuro
No

[polar bison]

scabbards also would have canonically tried to kill Kanjurou twice at this point only to be outdone by ink clones both times

[ancient vault]

Add Kaido not smashing every scabbards head lol

[light pond]

Well if kaido really wants yo kill orochi he should have not cut his head lol should have also crushed his body

[ancient vault]

he shouldve just clubbed his body out of the castle into the wide ocean, send him flying

[green roost]

to be fair, orochi probably never has had to use the ability of him surviving with heads cut off before, so it wouldnt be something that kaido would know outright

[polar bison]

hyogoro just lived lol

[green roost]

it would be a new sight , only the old hag would have known perhaps

[polar bison]

wano ppl are just as immortal as the rest of the OP world

[green roost]

the one who gave orochi his fruit was probably the only one that knew how it functions

but even thats not a guarantee, only orochi knows basically

[light pond]

And she died already although i always wonder since kaido only says he only killed the hag not the old man so how did that one died?

[green roost]

look at queen and king, they could not for the life of them figure out why their attacks arent hitting marco, they just keep trying

[light pond]

Cause if kaido did killed the old man then he can break through bart's barrier

[polar bison]

I mean I think they both know

[green roost]

probably blindsided them, i could see the old hag being delighted she helped kaido and then kaido just going "bonk" out of nowhere

[polar bison]

queen was just speaking out of frustration - I think everyone generally gets the vibe that u just have to deal a ton of damage to marco because he’ll regenerate everything to a point

[green roost]

yeah, i guess thats just a different example alotgehter

but there shouldnt be a reason kaido would just know all the functions of orochi's df, especially if hes never shown all of the functions, thats all

[craggy pumice]

I agree with Toshiro

[light pond]

Doesnt haki work on marco? Cause theose 2 should have used haki attacks

[ancient vault]

so maaaaaybe he saved Orochi’s life with an ink clone if orochi’s df didn’t?
We saw the ink clone disappear when being beheaded but nothing like that happened with orochi so most likely no.

[light pond]

Cause if haki does not work on marco then he is more OP than logias

[green roost]

haki should work, they just havent used it , garp got to hit marco in MF

[ancient vault]

One of my favorite spreads in all of wano basically means nothing anymore to me if Kanjuro is alive

[light pond]

Then those two are definition of dumb king just used his sword and not coat it with haki

[weak arrow]

Haki is probably not that effective

[sacred hawk]

Marco isn't a logia though. Haki wouldn't do anything since he's literally just regenerating wounds

[light pond]

And regular sword and bullets does?

[light pond]

Someone says garp did punch him in marineford

[weak arrow]

Nothing is effective except maybe cutting off his head and seastone

[sacred hawk]

The solution is just to hit him until his regen stops

[tidal scarab]

Maybe Marco is like Katakuri, using observation to make holes on the right spot to dodge

[light pond]

Garp did do damage to him baack in marineford

[green roost]

marco is getting tired on his own anyway, he has some light damage on him, wasnt his head showing some blood?

[sacred hawk]

Which he will heal

[green roost]

when he does the last kick in 1006

looks like hes got some damage on him in that panel

[light pond]

Peros not doing any moves this chapter wonder if he is looking for Mama and will decide to stay low for now

[tidal scarab]

Watch every big mom pirate come out of a mirror at the last moment lol

[green roost]

or he didnt want to get infected by ice onis

[light pond]

He doesnt even know about the ice oni

[tidal scarab]

Basically the beast pirates are collapsing from within.

[green roost]

yeah but he should have heard queen and chopper shouting their asses off about viruses lol

[tidal scarab]

Rip kaido

[light pond]

Technically everything CP0 talks about collapses on its own

[craggy pumice]

I totally wanna get pinged next time if you make more amazing theories like these. Before I wanted Xebec to have Mr. 5s fruit just cause it would be interesting for such a character to have a df from an early weaker character, but him being a hellhound is much better. Also idk if someone said this but the CDs being a parallel to the spaniards would also be hinted by the name Don Quixote. The theory is connected to a lot of things and it would make Xebec a really appealing character, so much that im not sure anymore if the God Valley incident being a part of Kaidos flashback in this arc would do justice to him because this arc already has so much stuff going on, it being shown in the bb flashback could be better. But idk would work either way. Great read!

[tidal scarab]

Tbh I never found the beast pirates overwhelming

[green roost]

just checked, marco is definitely showing damage on himself in 1006

[pure raven]

Are we all ignoring when cp-0 talked about that fruit that was considered a failure..from kaidos blood. Then he was hoping it got exploded. But it didn’t? And that’s momonuske fruit!!!

[tidal scarab]

I found doffy more overwhelming then the whole beast pirate crew and he was kinda a lackey

[polar bison]

we actually saw the ink clone disappear when Kanjurou revealed himself. it stayed beheaded and talking until he did, so the implication is that he could keep it around as long as necessary imo.

[bitter flower]

he was in see prism cuffs

[weak arrow]

Yeah Earl, that ain’t worth the stamina to heal

[tidal scarab]

King spit blood on marco

[bitter flower]

Garp is arguably one of the hardest hitters in the series.. Marco isnt invincible lol

[green roost]

pfft, when he has a face mask!? lmao

[hollow crag]

Garp is Garp though

[tidal scarab]

Lol

[light pond]

Well they are overwhelming in numbers that is for sure

[green roost]

true probably not worth it, but a little damage accumulates over time if its all not worth it, im sure perospero hoping for something like that lol

[hollow crag]

Garp was THE top marine in his prime, and still is up there today.

[light pond]

No before he was in see prism cuffs garp did punch him

[bitter flower]

Garp is arguably one of the hardest hitters in the series.. Marco isnt invincible lol

[light pond]

Who says marco is invincible? I just says both queen and king are stupid to not use haki while attacking marco

[bitter flower]

I am ten billion percent sure they used all the haki they could

if they didn't then marco would not have had his wing cut off by king

since marco is also using armament in this fight

[weak arrow]

King probably applied haki in cutting off marco’s wing. It just doesn’t mean anything cause he can regenerate it. Haki or no Haki

[green roost]

if neither used haki in that moment marcos wing could be cut off without it

it just doesnt hurt, he redirects it as an attack instead, attacking the wings is useless

he took his broken wing and used it as an attack

[lyric dust]

this is why marco is a chad

[green roost]

yee, i love how he just pulls the broken wing towards his finger, and sends out that attack

[bitter flower]

I dont think its possible that two yonko commanders are fighting this insanely important fight without utilizing haki. There is no way Marco's drop kick could have done the damage it did without haki either

[hollow crag]

Tbh, Marineford and now this arguably proves that Garp is still top-tier.

[lyric dust]

Marco is such a cool character with such a cool fruit

[grizzled fog]

Don’t think Marco protected his wing with haki

[light pond]

Then proves the point that marco's fruit is more OP than logia

[bitter flower]

Whether or not he did, I dont think its logical to assume that neither party used haki in this fight

[kind gate]

Why wouldn’t he¿

[bitter flower]

especially king and queen

[grizzled fog]

He doesn’t seem to use haki to protect himself at all because of his fruit. He doesn’t use haki for bullets either

[ancient vault]

Thank you and okay I will in the future

Also idk if someone said this but the CDs being a parallel to the spaniards would also be hinted by the name Don Quixote.
Def didnt think about that good detail

[bitter flower]

that's arguable. I would agree that it is more resistant to haki than a logia, but it doesn't have the same offensive power and manuverability of some logias

[ancient vault]

shut up

I dont wanna trash on the scabbards

[bitter flower]

akainu could probably still beat marco in a fight, marco could barely hold him off in marineford

[green roost]

well yeah its akainu

[hollow crag]

I seriously doubt the CDs are really parallel to the Spaniards.

[polar bison]

idt kanjurou living a little longer trashes much on them

[hollow crag]

The Nefertari were ex-World Nobles and that name is clearly Egyptian.

[light pond]

Arthur's theories

[ancient vault]

I dont like that either keep him dead or let him commit seppuku at the end of the war

[green roost]

i dont think, in that theory presented, they need to be a direct 1:1 comparison to spaniards, but for the sake of the rocks parallel it works , just as a small reflection of his possible lore, if hes based on the real pirate, we know oda likes to incorporate real pirate references

[hollow crag]

I can see potential for a partial parallel.

[ancient vault]

Idk if u know but there are also some parallels between the old catholic church and the WG if you look hard enough for it

This is the most obvious

[green roost]

also mariejois sounds like bourgeois which is french , so they could also be like old timey french nobles

[ancient vault]

Btw is that like supposed to be the grandline on the top?

[craggy pumice]

probably

[green roost]

thats what it seemed like to me ,a map of the grand line, but the other side

[ancient vault]

Im is the pirate king

[hollow crag]

I think they could be mostly a parallel to the wider European royal families in history, like the Habsburgs

[green roost]

flip this upside down

now it looks like the chair

[versed hamlet]

Holy shit swrml that theory was so long

[ancient vault]

I forgot to ping u meek sorry brother and yeah hahaha took me quite some time

[versed hamlet]

It was sooo good tho

its fine lmfao

[ancient vault]

thx tho appreciate it

[versed hamlet]

how long did it take to type up

[polar bison]

@dusky acorn posted theory here btw #manga-theories message

[dusky acorn]

Oh nice, I'll go ahead and temporarily put this up there with the Onimaru one I suppose.
These are the only two plausible theories anyway, so it HAS one or the other, if not then it's a whole new revelation

[ancient vault]

Now im just waitin for oli to roll up and post his toki theory

[ancient vault]

let me check

[pure raven]

It's so damn good and I'd also be really sad if they walked off so badass but couldn't even finish the traitor off

[ancient vault]

8 hours lol but it wasnt 8h straight 2h to 4h of those I did like nothing and the other time i stopped kept writing then stopped and so on

[ancient vault]

can see the Labbards forming

[pure raven]

Where does that chair point?
To the m o o n

[ancient vault]

[craggy pumice]

🌚

[dusky acorn]

Honestly it'd be pretty weird if Kanjuro's ability to draw ink clones wasn't expanded upon beyond that one off time where he revealed himself as the traitor

He drew headless people, but I wouldn't really count those as picture perfect replicas of actual live people

Can't deny the whole CP0 Momo fruit talk seems pretty convincing for either Orochi/Kanjuro being alive, or both

IF they're not going to learn the fruit is still in circulation from seeing Momo himself, then learning it by mouth from one of them is likely

And there's still Fukurokujus unresolved plot-line

[weak arrow]

Did momo turn into a dragon at udon at all

[craggy pumice]

yeah

[fresh gale]

Yes

[weak arrow]

#also-manga

[dusky acorn]

Though, I guess if this is Kanjuro then that makes Sanji choosing the Scabbards very likely

Since at this point the Scabbards are very injured and sandwiched on both sides with enemies, Kanjuro and Jack

[polar bison]

I think it makes it more likely that Sanji points Yamato towards the scabbards

[dusky acorn]

Oh rly

[weak arrow]

Jack may still attack Kanjuro though, or Kanjuro may have left.

[dusky acorn]

Ah that makes a lot of sense actually toshi

Maybe if Sanji can use his haki to sense Yamato is a strong fighter? He'd complete both objectives in one shot in a sense by guiding her to the Scabbards

It also works in Sanji's favour because Momo isn't as far away as he originally thought

yamato/Momo are moving exactly in his favour to cover the distance

[weak arrow]

There is also the chance Sanji wont meet up with either party as Yamato and them have moved away from where he was planning on going

[dusky acorn]

True, wherever Momo decides to wander off might really set them off course depending on how this current dragon transformation goes

[polar bison]

as I said near the end of my theory, I see orochi and kanjuro coming back primarily to play as an antagonistic force against the kozukis and their retainers - give Scabbards, Momo, and/or Hiyori a W against Orochi and Kanjurou, and maybe Shinobu/Raizo one against Fukurokuju?

and if Kanjurou is showing them a fake Oden to fuck with their emotions, it’d be really interesting to see them saved by a different fake Oden (who i still expect to match up against Jack, tho i’m not certain).

[polar bison]

hopefully sanji obs haki is good enough for this

[green roost]

for some reason now i am envisioning a scene where hundreds of oden clones charge kaido lmao

[dusk mirage]

Actually, do we know what happened to that shale shifters fruit from the Oden back story?

[green roost]

like luffy in whole cake island lol

[weak arrow]

bon clay ate it

[polar bison]

their name is Mr 2 Bon Clay

[dusk mirage]

Is it really the same fruit tho?

[green roost]

yes

[weak arrow]

yes

[polar bison]

yes but later

[dusk mirage]

Oh Ight

[polar bison]

funny how both the enemies that prevented Oden from his goals have had their dfs inherited by allies of Luffy

[dusk mirage]

It’s really hard to say who this fake oden is lol

[green roost]

chad luffy

[dusk mirage]

Unless maybe it’s his spirit and wouldn’t put it passed One Piece to do that lol

[green roost]

so far my brain is just split between kanjuro and onimaru

but no matter what theory for oden there is, i still believe the shadow is hiyori

[craggy pumice]

leaning towards Kanjuro

[dusk mirage]

Onimaru is a good guess

If I was a betting man I’d pick Onimaru over Kanjuro

I almost forgot about him lol

[green roost]

theres good points for both so much that i wish both were just oden lmao

[dusk mirage]

Oh, I see the other side with Kanjuros art work being better than initially thought

Fair play on it going either ways

[dusky acorn]

Yep, that's a big reason I hope for this Oden to be evil tbh (as Kanjuro's clone).
Would be really interesting character development for Yamato if she gets there to see someone else basically disgracing his legacy by using his image for an underhanded tactic

Let the the current day "Oden" vs a fake Oden

[craggy pumice]

I didnt consider Onimaru first cause I was too much into thinking that Onimaru can only turn into one form. Which I still prefer even if a shapeshifting fox without df would be cool

[dusky acorn]

Though I'd imagine it'd be taken care of pretty quickly by Yamato lol

[grizzled fog]

I think it’d be more interesting for it to be Kanjuro, but at the same time I’d rather Kanjuro stay dead because I’d be disappointed if the scabbards failed to kill him

[craggy pumice]

Yamato vs. Kanjuro would be interesting

[green roost]

both routes to me are equally interesting: if its hiyori and onimaru, that would tie them together, and make them highly relevant when they were just kind of left on the peripherals before, meanwhile with kanjuro it would be juicy as hell and like others said give way for other interesting stuff like with yamato , or kanjuro still possibly kidnapping hiyori

[dusk mirage]

The person who wrapped them up wasn’t this fake oden right?

[craggy pumice]

I dont really care about Scabbards failing to do that im just open for more Kanjuro schemings

[green roost]

no its seemingly different character

[dusk mirage]

It was some female shilloute

I mean if Onimaru can take on multiple forms it changes a lot, but it would be weird to turn female and then shift into Oden

[green roost]

nah, if its onimaru i still wouldnt believe the shadow is onimaru, that would still be hiyori

[polar bison]

I agree w this. the onimaru theory is hype esp bc it involves such a mysterious character suddenly becoming very relevant

[dusk mirage]

Yeah, the shadow looks like Hiyori anyways

And Onimaru could have shifted in Oden to give them that moral support ummphh

[green roost]

im hoping somewhere in the middle of the week someone busts out a theory no one has thought up yet with some evidence everyone missed (lookin at you marcotheorist) lmao

just to keep us going till the next chapter lol

[dusk mirage]

I feel like it would be weird if Hiyori didibopped out of there discretely and they randomly get found by a Kanjuro fake Oden clone

[lone plaza]

but if you were one of the scabbards would you not find it disrespectful that someone is trolling you like that?

[ancient vault]

@dusky acorn Do you remember when we were talking about the egg on the Oro Jackson being from God Valley potentially?

[polar bison]

my friend argued for Devon to me better than I’ve seen anyone in this server try, idt she’s completely impossible here, because there are a couple things that could point towards her being connected to Wano.

[dusky acorn]

Oh yep swrml

[dusk mirage]

Not necessarily cause the intention meant well

And it’s not the time to get lost in your emotions right now anyways lol

[green roost]

@ancient vault bro speaking of this, i was reading your theory and the thought ran across my head "what if god valley had real dragons" and the egg is the last dragon egg or some shit like that

[polar bison]

unfortunately devon theory still has too many holes and I think it’s too soon for the BB pirates, if they make an appearance at all

[ancient vault]

thats literally the enxt theory im trying to write lol

[green roost]

ooooho im here for it lmao

[polar bison]

but it was fun that he mentioned f!Oden and Devon share a signature pose https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/806929335713398833/819939661555564614/latest.png

[lone plaza]

devon ugly

[dusk mirage]

Zero chance of it being Devon lol

[dusky acorn]

Oh nice, sounds like a theory you'd have to fill a lot in between the lines for but can't wait, you got this swr

[dusk mirage]

Too short notice for BB pirates to show up like that imbedded in Wano

[ancient vault]

But I'll just drop sth related to the real dragons real quick but nothing to do with God Valley really. Its just a quick random thought I had (since Oli is ignoring me )

Remember the dragons that invaded wano and were cut down by ryuma? And how the world nobles tried to invade wano?

I think you can put both of them together and the WG was using real dragons as a weapon to take over wano with the help of tamas fruit. So some government official had tamas df.
Ultimately the dragons were cut down by ryuma and the owner of tamas df was killed by him too.
So the soul of that devil went into a fruit in wano and stayed there for centuries until tama finds it.

I think cp0 still hasnt found out about what tama is currently doing so the moment they realize what is actually going I think they might go and try to hunt her down

We already know the Celestial Dragons are obsessed with Dragons

[green roost]

thiis is fucking dope, would explain how there was 1 dragon over wano randomly that ryuma had to kill, and would explain why tama just randomly has such an OP fruit

[dusk mirage]

I feel like for Cp0 it doesn’t matter to them which side wins as long as the pirates suffer casualties

[ancient vault]

They might not hunt her down but it would def give her more relevance in the context to the outside world

[polar bison]

luffy just has an entourage of incredibly powerful children/teens following him at this point between Vivi, Nami, Shirahoshi, Momo, and Tama. who’s next?

[dusky acorn]

Oh god swrml don't let oli see this and give him any ideas, you unleashed pandora's box

[lone plaza]

that’s exactly how they feel🤣

[green roost]

what do you think theyd do if there was a few pirates left and kaido was also down for the count

[dusk mirage]

Had in Vivi, just kidding lol

[lone plaza]

Weepyhoshi*

[hollow crag]

Nami is 20, so not a teen anymore.

[dusk mirage]

She all woman

[polar bison]

tomato

tomato.

[ancient vault]

Yes that is very weird. And generally the entire obsession of the celestial dragons with real dragons.

Basically I believe god valley to be the birth place and home of real dragons

[dusky acorn]

Though your speculation still doesn't hint towards Tama's fruit being able to tame real zoans since those were actual dragons in Ryumas time, but the potential parallel to Tama also taming a dragon are still there if you believe that theory

[craggy pumice]

why is Nami in that list and not any other strawhat

[lone plaza]

the real question is, where did the egg go

[polar bison]

bc Nami is maybe Uranus

[craggy pumice]

bog

[dusk mirage]

I with the egg Roger had on his ship being a dragon

[lone plaza]

Nami????? Uranus???🤣🤣🤣🤣

[ancient vault]

Nah thats not what im trynna go at
I just thought it might be possible and just give tama more relevance in the context of the otuside world

[green roost]

the CDs being obsessed with dragons will 100% be touched upon again, even if outside of wano, its crucial to their plot going forward, also its highly suspicious that garp decides to name his only son DRAGON, a symbol of the people he hates (celestial dragons)

[dusk mirage]

So far in One Piece they seem like the most threatening beasts outside of Sea Kings

[lone plaza]

how obsessed are the CD with dragons, can someone show me pls cause i think i’ve forgotten

[dusky acorn]

The idea of learning about past users of fruits is always fascinating to me

[ancient vault]

Maybe they hold the dragons hostage in god valley but then again. I think God Valley is a regularly reoccurring event of some sort.

[lone plaza]

feels just like avatar

[dusky acorn]

Wonder if we'll learn the previous Ope-ope guy who documented the eternal youth surgery by accomplishing it in the first place

[green roost]

all their research in punk hazard showed them wanting dragons to be made, two fake dragons were made in punk hazard, and they demanded vegapunk give them the fake kaido fruit

[dusk mirage]

Probably at some point Simon

[green roost]

would be wild if they kept dragons caged secretly

[polar bison]

yea Nami’s forecasting/navigational ability is frequently described as magical, preternatural, and beyond any human capabilities in the manga. she could just be a great navigator but she could also maybe be the one weapon we’ve heard nothing about

[lone plaza]

is that the one that Momo ate?

[ancient vault]

yup

[dusk mirage]

The fact the went all hands on deck for the Op Op fruit, it has to be backed from some type of evidence with the enteral life thing

[craggy pumice]

I hope she is just a great navigator

[green roost]

yep, this chapter we find out vegapunk extracted kaidos DNA to make that fruit, th WG demanded it but vegapunk said it wasnt perfect in his eyes

[ancient vault]

Today was a hard day, Im gonna go to sleep now thx for the feedback guys and good night

[lone plaza]

so Momo became what he hated

[green roost]

yeah which is probably why hes so hesitant to use his fruit's powers

[craggy pumice]

goodnight swrml!

[green roost]

gn swrml

[dusk mirage]

I feel like maybe they didn’t do enough testing with momos fruit

[green roost]

mojo jojo

[lone plaza]

does Momo have a hybrid form

[dusk mirage]

Lmao caught me

[craggy pumice]

not yet

[green roost]

would be lowkey hype if he turned into a mini hybrid, its yet to be seen tho

[dusky acorn]

It would be strange if Momo didn't have a hybrid form but I think showing that too soon would technically be spoling Kaido's own in a sense lol

[lone plaza]

he should do it when he slices Orochi’s head off

[green roost]

all we know so far is hes a long boi dragon like kaido, and he can make clouds like kaido

[craggy pumice]

well we could see it after we see Kaidos hybrid

[green roost]

^ hype, im down

[dusk mirage]

The fact that momo is a kid is also a limiting factor

[lone plaza]

Kaido hybrid ain’t getting touched on for a while tbh

[craggy pumice]

mini kaido

[green roost]

im betting that momo might even have tough scales (only in dragon form tho, he got beat the fuck up by kanjuro lol)

[lone plaza]

i think Oda tryna save the rooftop battle a bit longer, next chapter probs gonna be about jimbei and not the oden stuff

[dusk mirage]

He very likely gonna turn into mini Kaido with same devil fruit abilities lol

[green roost]

maybe not in the same scale, like as gargantuan but i could see him making mini versions of kaido attacks

[dusky acorn]

I wonder if Momo's scales give him that innate durability like Kaido

[dusk mirage]

Makes you wonder when they dropping act 4 on us

[dusky acorn]

Though I'm sure much of Kaido's toughness comes from his innates strength too

[green roost]

same, this gotta be answered, its fine if he doesnt, but im curious to find out

[wind geode]

Yeah I dont think momos devil fruit is good as the original

[lone plaza]

not yet, cause he’s still young

[dusk mirage]

Probably when they get to Flower Capital would be a good part to start act 4

[craggy pumice]

next chapter we will see Jinbei guys. I can feel it. Believe me. We finally get Jinbei. Definitely. This time I will be right. Trust me. Yes.

[dusk mirage]

Cause the final battle probably gonna be there

[lone plaza]

it’s hard to compare momo’ ayo kaido’s when momo is young

[green roost]

hes only 8, we havent seen many zoan fruits on kids before, especially kids that know what theyre doing, plus its the fruit of his fathers killer, he could be emotionally limited, but not by the fruit itself

[lone plaza]

act 3 might just end in like 3 chapters and i’m happy

more info on Sabo finally

[craggy pumice]

lol

[dusk mirage]

Hard to say there’s so many cross over battles happening right now

[craggy pumice]

we wont get that until Kaido is defeated

[dusk mirage]

So many mini bossses to get through atm lol

[green roost]

it does kind of feel like there is a lot of new mysteries stacking, getting ready for a small break

[lone plaza]

we won’t know exactly what happened but after act 3 we gonna get more clues

[green roost]

like the mysteries will pile up, and then it cuts the act, and then we get them all adressed in act 4

[dusk mirage]

That break inbetween act 3 and 4 gonna be so enlightening hopefully

[lone plaza]

my guess is, we’re not finding out exactly what happened until the straw hats find out

[dusk mirage]

That’s another possibility

[craggy pumice]

thats my guess too

[dusk mirage]

I feel the Blackbeard thing could be address in the intermission

[pure raven]

Bold of you to assume we'll be getting a fourth act.

[green roost]

if there is another intermission i dont think itll address sabo, i think itll just do more setup for post wano stuff

[dusk mirage]

I already added hopefully my guy

[green roost]

aka even more mysteries!

[polar bison]

https://mangasee123.com/read-online/One-Piece-Digital-Colored-Comics-chapter-130.html id suggest rereading this chapter, it’s what got me to thinking there could be more going on. specifically these panels:

[lone plaza]

and more on shanks and the gorosei, and what happened in alabasta

[pure raven]

@polar bison Nami observation theory or something?

[green roost]

its suggesting shes beyond the level any normal navigator can achieve , shes gifted with godlike weather prediction somehow

[dusk mirage]

I feel like the shanks and gorosei connection going not even be addressed this arc

[lone plaza]

plot twist, Nami = Uranus

[wind geode]

Boa huang is with cp0 and she is watching yamato hmm cp0 will maybe go after him then cp0 vs yamato

[dusk mirage]

Uranus can mean Sky or Life

[lone plaza]

what do you guys think yamato’s df is

[dusk mirage]

So maybe Uranus is like like some sky island op character lol

[wind geode]

Ancient for sure

[green roost]

a western dragon fruit lmao

like the classic dragon look, not the long bodies

[lone plaza]

western dragon?

[polar bison]

Kanjurou mentions he’s surprised he didn’t beat Momo to death when he tried to escape. he chalks it up to him being the blood of Oden, but Momo isn’t much of a likeness to Oden. I was thinking it could be his DF already granting him a durability buff, just not one anymore near as extreme as kaidou’s

@pure raven was thinking abt nami = uranus yeah, idt this is haki.

[dusk mirage]

It smart for Oda to go with the name Uranus for one of the super weapons since it can mean multiple things lol

[green roost]

fat body, has limbs, has wings, etc

[lone plaza]

western dragon zoan would be cool

[lone plaza]

yhyhyh ik

i’m just waiting for Oda to introduce a thunderbird mythical zoan

[dusk mirage]

Momos so young that we can’t even classify his physical potential yet lol

[green roost]

at first i thought a white tiger or tiger fruit would be cool, but we literally have who's who and his whole cat themed crew, it would be too close to that

so now i think yamato a western dragon

[dusky acorn]

Yep that makes sense, even when they're outside of their respective forms zoan users seem to have a durability just a notch above

[lone plaza]

yamato could be a sabertooth lion?

[pure raven]

Somebody's been watching Sawyer7mage

[dusk mirage]

But his durability could come from the fruit he has with traits from Kaidos fruit

[green roost]

damn thats actually a good point toshi, i thought this was counter evidence because momo got so beaten up, but i forgot about that kanjuro line!

[dusky acorn]

Please don't push these people on to me, I don't know these OPtubers

[green roost]

sabretooth tiger is already whos who, so nah

[craggy pumice]

Yeah, I remember the scene, and I see why people could feel like there more to Namis abilities than just talent. But even then, wouldnt her power more about controlling the weather rather than predicting it? The ancient weapons seem to be the most destructive weapons in existence but all the potential foreshadowing would lay more focus on predicting weather than controlling it, she can control it but thats more of a cool weapon of Usopp. For example I can see why people would think what Dragon did or the storm saving Roger could be an ancient weapon rather than Nami

[wind geode]

It would be funny yamato hates kaido but she has the same fighting style and weapon

[lone plaza]

remember guys, his fruit is artificial, it’s not gonna be exactly like kaidos

[green roost]

yes, its pink

[pure raven]

and deemed a failure

[dusk mirage]

We don’t the origin of Namis real mom so anything’s possible with her

Or real fam

[green roost]

allegedly , vp is a good moral guy tho, i dont know if hed be willing to give the wg such a cool thing like that lol

[wind geode]

His is already butt ugly

[dusky acorn]

Also I don't think zoan users having regenerative abilities is confirmed, but Momo seemed to pretty much fully heal at this point when he turned into his dragon form in that last panel of 1007 lol

[lone plaza]

who else is waiting for the reveal of vegapunk🤣🤣🤣

[green roost]

everyone

[pure raven]

People saying Vegapunk called the fruit a failure so the WG couldn't get their hands on it have no basis for their remarks. Vegapunk had no problem performing robot modifications to Kuma (a human) and creating a whole horde of Pacifistas whose lasers could collectively incinerate an island.

[dusk mirage]

Momos fruit is probably ugly looking cause he’s young

[lone plaza]

i wonder if we are ever gonna see him

[dusk mirage]

The boy is 8!!! Eight!

[dusky acorn]

Could be a mistake on Oda's part, but for some reason this boy doesn't have even a bruise on him anymore

[lone plaza]

he has boosted regeneration

[lusty island]

I think neither did Kaido

[green roost]

there is a basis , he also programmed kuma to protect the sunny and he made sure kids werent experimented on when he was in charge , he was also arrested and forced to work for the WG, so of course he has to give them some stuff eventually

[pure raven]

Where's the panel saying he was arrested and forced?

[wind geode]

Momo gets everything and hiyori nothing

[green roost]

i literally just posted it

[dusk mirage]

Lmao

[green roost]

bruh......

[pure raven]

sorry the shitposting was too strong

[lone plaza]

who’s the coolest scabbard?

[green roost]

no worries youre all good lol

[pure raven]

I'll use an /s next time

[lone plaza]

kawamatsu pog

[polar bison]

extremely fair, bc I think for this theory to have any validity it has to assume that there’d then be a lot to nami’s abilities we haven’t seen yet bc she isn’t conscious of who she is or whatever reason. rn her powers are just kinda weird, not ancient weapon level

[dusk mirage]

Would y’all like the idea if Nami ended up being Uranus or would that be too forced?

[green roost]

if you have someone like nami you wouldnt even need to control the weather, you can just time your travel perfectly so, like, if for example you had any chasers, you could go under a spot of bad weather perfectly predicted and avoid them (like if that happened with roger's case in that war)

[dusk mirage]

I think it would be forced, but I could something crazy where Uranus is similar to Poisedon and Namis gene pull is tied to Uranus

[versed hamlet]

what is a chaser

[green roost]

a pursuer lol, just someone trying to get them

[pure raven]

Is it ever stated what Uranus can do?

[dusk mirage]

Nope

[lone plaza]

no

[dusk mirage]

We don’t even know what direction Oda going with Uranus

[grizzled fog]

We can infer that it has to do with the sky, that’s kinda it

[dusk mirage]

Cause it can mean either Sky or Life. So imagine if it was life, it could be tied to the devil fruits

[green roost]

uranus abilities so far are a theory based on knowledge of uranus in myth

[grizzled fog]

I think it’s fair to assume it has to do with the sky considering the other two ancient weapons are kinda clearly associated with the sea, and the earth

[pure raven]

Isn't Pluton a ship?

[dusk mirage]

Life is also fair game when you consider the devil fruits tho

[grizzled fog]

Yes, Pluton (Pluto) is the god of the underworld though

[frail yarrow]

Well, Uranus is Momi

[dusky acorn]

Yeah, so far we have a human and a ship. I'd prefer if Oda didn't repeat the person idea for the last ancient weapon Uranus but anything is up for theorization since we're in complete dark

[grizzled fog]

Doubt it

[dusky acorn]

Er, I guess not human but mermaid? but you get the gist

[polar bison]

the longer we go without hearing abt Uranus the more suspicious i’ll get about nami

[pure raven]

I wonder how advanced the ancient civilisation was seeing as they made a ship that powerful

[frail yarrow]

Momo can lead Zo. Pretty similar to Shirahoshi

[pure raven]

Roger said he wanted to live in Joyboy's time. Maybe there was mad tech

[dusk mirage]

I looked at the Ancient Civilization like Atlantis in a way lol

[green roost]

if there was more than 1 zou sure, but if anything, i can see zou being a remnant of an ancient weapon that doesnt exist anymore

[lone plaza]

pluton is a WAR ship

[green roost]

if there was 1 giant elephant surely there was other giant animals, but i bet they all died

[dusk mirage]

I see Zou being connected to the D family, but not the ancient weapons tbh

[lone plaza]

i see ancient weapons being connected

[frail yarrow]

Remember the weird creatures of Florian's triangle

[green roost]

my pet headcanon theory about Zunisha./zou is: thereused to be more than 3 ancient weapons in the past, , or back then it was just called "weapons", and leading a giant pack of animals ,was one of them, that power died off and zunisha became the only one left , and someone punished it by making it roam forever

[lone plaza]

through joyboy

[dusk mirage]

Mmm, I mean Zushina might be on par to the ancient weapons, hard to say

[frail yarrow]

Interesting

[green roost]

true, people are okay with those things being never mentioned again, but tbh i want to know more about them

[dusk mirage]

We know Pluton supposed to be like some island buster. Poseidon can command all the Sea Kings

Makes you wonder how lethal Uranus is

[frail yarrow]

I'm ok for it not to be mentionned. My point Being there can be more than 1

[wind geode]

Hmm its easy to hurt him

[dusky acorn]

It's hard to imagine a world with more than 3 ancient weapons since they'd more be running rampant, right? It's basically meaning a dystopian world and complete chaos

[dusk mirage]

Tbf Zushina is old

[green roost]

possibly , if those large shadows are somehow like other zunishas, but lets say they were cursed to stay in one region rather than cursed to roam forever, that would be dope

[dusk mirage]

Back in highschool Zushina was the man

[versed hamlet]

huhh

[green roost]

someone chasing you! lol

[dusky acorn]

Feel like that'd be something the poneglyphs would have told us by now but who knows

[versed hamlet]

oh fuck i am so stupid

[dusk mirage]

That would be wild

If they were like Zushina like gatekeepers

[versed hamlet]

do u mean zunesha

[green roost]

yeah, but put under a different punishment

[pure raven]

https://thrillerbark.com/threads/the-florian-triangle-moria-sky-island-seastone-king.1655/

[dusk mirage]

Man, you know what I’m saying tho meek

[green roost]

what if they were forced to stay stationary forever

[pure raven]

This is some good shit for a theory on the Florian Triangle ↑

[versed hamlet]

yea i do just wondering

[wind geode]

Yeah

[green roost]

they clearly have eyes and no one really mentions them in the world, they are stuck to that place only, i think, like a curse or punishment

just like zunisha, but different

i mention the eyes cause i dont think theyre mountains or structures, but beings

i hope when we get to the final arc and void century begins to be revealed, we get to touch back upon stuff in the world like this, if not, then oh well but thats my last hope for it to happen

[lone plaza]

Oda will most likely touch up on them later on in the story like he usually does

[frail yarrow]

I'm still reading the theory you sent man

[quick tusk]

This is barely a theory at this point, but its seems to be the case that the "failed" Vegapunk DF that Momo ate is not a failure, and I imagine it was declared as so to keep it off the hands of the World Goverment.

[craggy pumice]

Wouldnt Vegapunk just take the fruit then

[wind geode]

why not destroying? Wg shouldnt get that fake devil fruit but caesar is fine?

[green roost]

it would seem more natural to perhaps keep the fruit sectioned off, acting as its a failure, who knowes how many eyes were on vegapunk when he worked

[grizzled fog]

By calling it a failure he ensured that Caesar wouldn’t want it tho

[green roost]

thats a good point to consider too

[wind geode]

So did he hope that a good person would eat it?

[craggy pumice]

hm yeah maybe, I mean I'm sure there will be a moment where Momo does something great with his df, but it could also be because Vegapunk actually thought it was a failure but he is such a genius that he has too high standards and the fruit is still good

[green roost]

BUT, i will give it this: there is the possibility vegapunk truly thought it was a failure in his eyes because his standards were too high

[craggy pumice]

epic earl

[green roost]

imagine he only called it a failure because its pink. thats it.

[craggy pumice]

great minds think alike 🍷

[green roost]

but he didnt specify to the WG

[green roost]

😌

[craggy pumice]

that would be a typical gag moment

[green roost]

we have precedence for that last thought: franky's timeskip adventure

[grizzled fog]

I would think Vegapunk was hoping to put it towards greater use, maybe for some noble cause like giving it to the revos (spitballing here), so he called it a failure in order to keep the WG and Caesar from desiring it, and was trying to store it until the time arose

[green roost]

the people on his island say this exact thing: he left his works half completed or partially completed because he didnt have funding or his standards were too high

i forget which of the two exactly it was

but he wanted to help the people of the island he was on with an invention that would heat the island cause it gets too cold

[craggy pumice]

after the wano arc cp0 asking Vegapunk why the hell would he label Momos fruit as a failure, vegapunk telling them it gives you dandruffs and cp0s losing their mind

[green roost]

on that note, the marys on onigashima in general remind me of the animal/robots that vegapunk made to help himself on the franky island

if queen didnt already exist as an inventor, i would have thought vegapunk gave orochi the marys too

[craggy pumice]

well I think Queen could have worked with Judge and Vegapunk anyway

[green roost]

yeah same

[craggy pumice]

would be a cool scientists gang

[green roost]

hell, he could be an invention of theirs!

[quick tusk]

Another theory I have and I presume is how Momo will contribute, the moment Kaido releases his clouds and Onigashima falls, Momo will finally realize his own DF powers and summon his own clouds to lift the island

[green roost]

it would be interesting, out of the kaido powers, we did already see momo using the clouds

[wind geode]

No way he is 8

[green roost]

it wouldnt be as much of a stretch as other powers

momo clouds are already established

[wind geode]

Onigashima is huge

[quick tusk]

exactly, its more likely than him contributing in combat

[green roost]

the clouds are magical anyway tho, theres no weight factor to them

[craggy pumice]

I think Momo lifting the island became more likely this chapter but I still prefer the Zunesha route, although the clouds thing would be the most significant thing I can imagine Momo would do regarding his fruit, which was teased this chapter

[green roost]

its not like kaido himself could probably lift the island like that physically either, the clouds make it possible

[grizzled fog]

Is the zunesha route just catching it with her trunk?

[craggy pumice]

yeah

[quick tusk]

this chapter hyping the fact that his DF isn't a total dud and will be relevant is pretty on the nose to me that he'll lift the island

[craggy pumice]

and destroying some mountains that surround wano

[quick tusk]

since that's something only Momo can prevent besides...idk Fuji if the Navy appears lmao

[green roost]

its making momo hype as fuck to be honest: hes a cool pink dragon with powers that can also control zunisha

hes a mini god

even if its just the clouds

[wind geode]

Momos transformation seems random him lifting onigashima cant work

[craggy pumice]

it could

[polar bison]

momo will “one day carry this nation on his shoulders”. I believe it

[craggy pumice]

the possibility is there, its just that it would have to be after Kaido doesnt wrap his clouds around that island and is already dropping it

[quick tusk]

if Momo doesn't stop Onigashima falling and killing thousands, who will? Its not like Kaido would willingly stop

[green roost]

ye, and i could see the island getting a hairs breath away from reaching ground before momo barely starts lifting it up lol

[craggy pumice]

yeah maybe

[green roost]

it starts with a few clouds but people motivate and cheer him on around him, and then he does more, happy momo moment

[wind geode]

They will run away when the people see flying onigashima

[craggy pumice]

its possible that we see then how Kaido does it in the first place, by Momos POV who is trying to learn it

[polar bison]

it’s such an oda move and very reminiscent of Vivi and Shirahoshi

[quick tusk]

Also its not like Momo has to lift it for long, just enough to move it somewhere open field where it would be inconsequential

[craggy pumice]

or they will just call it an asspull

[green roost]

because nobody here expects a momo battle feat, this is the best it gets, right?

[quick tusk]

then he'd like pass out or whatever

[craggy pumice]

I think it pretty much is

[green roost]

if momo is gonna be useful, and hes not gonna fight, this is what he can do

[wind geode]

From hidding under yamatos shirt to lifting onigashima I wont buy it

[craggy pumice]

mini boro breath would be epic but idk where he would use it for what

[green roost]

look at him this chapter, you see him growing in real time, emotionally, hes tired of being a useless runt

[quick tusk]

ngl, this theory seems like a slam dunk

[craggy pumice]

what does hiding under Yamatos clothes have to do with that

[green roost]

momo in this chapter is finally drawing the line , hes had enough of himself

[craggy pumice]

Momo obviously will step up and do something big anyway

[polar bison]

Clearly Momo’s plot of uselessness is leading somewhere. i’ve seen so many theories abt him somehow actually popping off as a fighter with his df, or growing in age and suddenly becoming an insane combatant, or even actually defeating Orochi with ame no habakiri, but all of these I think miss the point of his character. momo isnt oden and will never be able to protect his country quite like Oden did. He may one day be a great fighter, but that day is far off. that’s why Luffy’s here. but fighting isn’t the only way he can contribute, and if he has to contribute - which we’ve just established - this is the way.

[craggy pumice]

this is what this chapter had only solidified

[polar bison]

damn I like that sandwiching there

[craggy pumice]

[green roost]

this 100% hes not oden but doesnt have to be, he has his own usefulness, no one has to be an exact replica of their heirs

[polar bison]

anyway hiyori is clearly the one who’s gonna claim orochi’s final head

[craggy pumice]

if he is alive, then yea would be cool

[green roost]

shes already shown she can slap the shit out of him

[wind geode]

Momo that kid who saved wano its a nightmare

[green roost]

just hold a blade next time , easy head chop

[craggy pumice]

nightmare for you

[wind geode]

Yeah

[craggy pumice]

its so obvious it will happen one way or the other

[green roost]

wano would need a new dragon god, after the old tyrant dragon god goes away, and momo the bright little pink dragon is the perfect representation of the future

[wind geode]

Whats the point of hiyori

[frail yarrow]

are you familiar with the legend of momotaro ?

[green roost]

choppin heads

just kidding(for now),i think shes already healing the scabbards

[wind geode]

Orochi??? Kaido did it already

[green roost]

hes gonna have 7 more

notice how hes still human but still sprouts snake heads

[wind geode]

Kaido cut him when he didnt used his devil fruit

[green roost]

he doesnt have to be full zoan to sprout snake heads, hes a mythical fruit, marco is a pheonix that can just recover at will

[craggy pumice]

Zoans can talk in animal form, Marco can heal in human form

[green roost]

orochi has never had his head cut off in his entire life, this would be his first time testing that ability

[wind geode]

So orochi's Mythical zoan is hydra?

[craggy pumice]

no

[green roost]

no, yamata no rochi, as the fruit model states, that one cant regrowheads

[frail yarrow]

yamata no orochi, famous to have 8 heads cut by susanoo

[green roost]

it can still stay alive until all 8 heads are finally cut

hydra actually regrows heads, is more annoying and OP that way, this is different

[wind geode]

Then orochi is dead if kaidos cut his main head

[green roost]

not necesarily, it doesnt die from a "main" head, it does when all the heads are finally cut

[frail yarrow]

Nope, the point of the legend is that you have to cut all 8 heads

[wind geode]

It cant be all 8 heads got a brain

[green roost]

all mythicals have some kind of extra magical properties on top of looking magical as well (sengoku is a giant golden buddha that fires giant palm blasts, marco is an amazing looking bird that doesnt actually exist that also heals itself, catarina devon is a 9 tailed fox that can shapeshift) this would fit: orochi is an 8 headed serpent that wont die until all heads are finally cut

[polar bison]

kaidou can lift onigashima in his human form

[craggy pumice]

yeah that too

[green roost]

if he only had 8 heads and no magical powers on top of that he'd literally be the lamest mythical weve ever seen

[dusky acorn]

Wow, this idea of somehow using his own flame clouds to counteract the trajectory of Onigashima falling onto the capital sounds crazy but somehow plausible. Especially since that would serve to be the moment where we're like, 'dang, maybe this wasn't a failure'

[vivid hornet]

if there's a fruit that allows you to travel forwards through time - will there be one the other way?

[craggy pumice]

no

[wind geode]

Kaido couldnt cut all his heads

[green roost]

exactly cause only 1 was showing

7 more will come out, im not sure ifh e will ever have a human head again tho, they may forever be snakes lol

[jaunty cradle]

hmm true i just saw that

[frail yarrow]

Does anyone has the faintest idea when Tengu is going to finally be relevant to the story ?

[jaunty cradle]

why do people keep on thinking its bon clay, bon clay needs TO touch someone's face before he can turn into them, in which case i doubt bon clay has touched odens face :/

[polar bison]

it’s impossible for him to have

[green roost]

its not bon clay

[frail yarrow]

Either Onimaru or Kanjuro

[jaunty cradle]

bon clay wasnt even born when oden died im pretty sure

oh well ill just hope its actually oden thats alive cause he's my fav charcater, and i want to see him meet zoro /shrug

[green roost]

[craggy pumice]

when he is revealed to be Sukiyaki

[fresh gale]

I swear the next time i see this comparison I'm gonna explode

[jaunty cradle]

best theory: vegapunk made oden a pacifista

[frail yarrow]

If he's Sukiyaki I die

[craggy pumice]

Here is a shovel

[jaunty cradle]

plot twist: the oden is a cyborg

[green roost]

if hes sukiyaki i revive from the grave

[wind geode]

Oden is alive because of moria

[craggy pumice]

then he would look like shit

[wind geode]

he perfected it

[craggy pumice]

imagine the cliffhanger at the end of the chapter was yet another silhouette looking like Oden and next chapter its a disgusting rotten Oden zombie

[frail yarrow]

boiled zombie oden, i kind of like it

[alpine hill]

Ik this is completely random but I wonder if Momo is actually going to use his "flame clouds" this arc

[queen arrow]

i'm sure he will

[wind geode]

Luffy will beat kaido and onigashima will crush on wano

Without hurting any Civilians

[alpine hill]

I mean the reason I wonder is because of Mt.Fuji, which is right next to the floating Onigashima

It is close enough that if nothing happens, that mountain will certainly get knocked down

And we have no clue as to the extent of control e.g momentary loss if Luffy was to punch him a certain way?

[zinc iris]

I think the island is going to fall but then Momonosuke will use his own clouds to keep it afloat

[alpine hill]

Nice idea

[wind geode]

i can't believe it. Momo cant do nothing in his dragon form but there is a chance for him to lift onigashima

Without training just like that

[alpine hill]

I have wondered whether his fruit abilities are dependant on his mental strength, his experience with the fruit or that he can do very little with the fruit and that it is genuinely a faliure, I actually find Momo fruit so fascinating

[thick sky]

Didnt know that cloud thing was straight out of mythology

[alpine hill]

Neither did I, actually reading that has made me wonder, if Vegapunk, ironically could have actually made Momo's fruit better than Kaidos

Or if Momo could enlarge

[thick sky]

had anyone watch the cartoon chinese masters of the zodiac? What was dragon's ability in it?

It could help draw similarities or somethinf

[lusty island]

Ah fuck that would actually be pretty cool, but it might feel cheap

[thick sky]

Yeah vegapunk may have made it better but the enlarge thing would be bad

[alpine hill]

Yea the powerup for Momo would be but it would be a great way to measure Momo's growth

[zinc iris]

His clouds are cimbable and it was reiterated this chapter that his DF is indeed a replica of Kaido's

[alpine hill]

I agree, Kaido too chunky imo

[zinc iris]

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/onepiece/images/5/59/Rumble_Ball_Infobox.png/revision/latest?cb=20140616040622

[frail yarrow]

that's the best idea so far

[thick sky]

Rumble balls are created only for choppers fruit, right?

[craggy pumice]

Momo is constantly training

[frail yarrow]

Actually, we've always wondered what the rumbles would do to another Zoan

[polar bison]

Chopper’s been with momo for like two months. he’s theoretically had time

[alpine hill]

It is never stated, but the implication is since it disrupts the fruits wavelengths, in theory it could work on all fruit users

[thick sky]

Chopper only experimented in his own body and only took the effects of his own df into consideration. If he had indepth understanding of df in general while making rumble ball, we could expect it to work with other zoans

But idk. The risk could be there due to which maybe chopper wouldn't use it in other zone

[alpine hill]

I do think Luffy could eat it, but the effects could be nothing

But actually I do think it can affect Df users of all types, hopefully Goda clarifies one day

[frail yarrow]

I have the feeling a Rumble could be lost in the dangos, hence we could discover the effects on other users of DF

[alpine hill]

But why would a rumble ball be in dangos

[frail yarrow]

Hmmmm... Because Onigashima is a mess and that would be conveniant ?

[thick sky]

Yea was wondering thesame

[frail yarrow]

We just saw Chopper slapping Queen, I wouldn't be surprised.

[alpine hill]

True but I could only see it realistic that chopper drops one on the floor

[sacred hawk]

As for that theory of "Oden was sent forward in time by Toki, and then returned to the past, which is why he knows about the future 20 years from now"

Oden seemed like he knew about what would happen in 20 years even before he returned

In fact, all of the Roger Pirates did

[junior cape]

Or maybe he had Toki send a version of him forward, after he gave up his swords. The ones he's carrying now aren't his originals

Their handguards are different

[plush pike]

So it can be implied that the One Piece has some prophetic attribute to it?

[junior cape]

Maybe, but it can also be implied that Toki's powers had reality splitting abilities included with them, because she specifically says that "humanity cannot return to the past" even with her time-time powers, so Oden both being there and being dead means that there were 2 Odens

Because we know what happened to old Oden, he got boiled and executed by headshot, right in front of Kaido. There was no chance for Toki to slip in and save him. However, him being there means he was not sent forward, because from what we know that means that he would not be there for execution day. So the fact that (assuming this is A real Oden) Oden is here TODAY means that Toki can copy people forward in time, as well as cut forward in time.

Because again, Toki stated that even the Time-Time fruit CANNOT move people backwards in time.

However, she can most likely see the future with it, much farther than Haki allows for.

With that in mind, it is likely that she can send a copy of someone forward to a specific point in time to nudge events in one way or another.

[fathom matrix]

I think it's Onimaru

[junior cape]

Who

[plush pike]

The fox boi from the bridge.

[fathom matrix]

the kitsune? The one who became Gyukimaru?

[junior cape]

We've already seen his form, he's Gyukimaru the Bandit, not Oden

[fathom matrix]

but he can transfom and it wasn't stated it can only be 1 person he can become. Plus, why would he just wonder off and not even attemprt to help?

[plush pike]

But yeah, the reason I don't think it's Onimaru is that this is such a high risk factor cliffhanger. The conclusion to this cliffhanger may define Oda as a writer in the Wano arc, and I just don't see how he can write Onimaru being Oden here as anything other than a big letdown.

A ruse to get us hyped, only to rip it away from us and go back to a boring old story where the possibility of seeing Oden interact with Yamato is no longer a possibility.

[junior cape]

"Oh yeah I brought back this massively important character but PSYCHE it's actually someone else lmao get prankd"

[plush pike]

Yeah exactly.

[junior cape]

There would be RIOTS

BUT, whatever Oda does, AS LONG AS he does it well, I imagine the ending will be satisfying.

[plush pike]

It would be like revealing that Roger was Ace's father, only to say "I lied you're actually Dragon's son after all, I just tried to use you for political gain".

[junior cape]

Yeah it makes zero writing sense

[plush pike]

I have trust that Oda will do the right thing and not immediately sweep the hype out from underneath us.

[fathom matrix]

and him being the actual oden makes more sense somehow?

[junior cape]

I got enough subverted expectations with GoT

[junior cape]

It means him going so calmly to his death was planned, and there's more going on than we know

[plush pike]

We have literally an endless amounts of ways it could be the real Oden, this is a story that has all kinds of weird powers. Maybe it's Oden's ghost.

[fathom matrix]

If it was odin's ghost, why bother giving him 2 katanas that look nothing like his previous swords, if at all, if it doesn't matter?

[plush pike]

True.

[fathom matrix]

also, if it was him, only to come back.....it's honestly bad writing and kinda destroys the whole thing about carrying on a legacy

[junior cape]

Nah it means he can be a father figure for Momo

[plush pike]

Yeah, but Oda wrote himself into this, so I assume he has a plan.

[fathom matrix]

The whole point is for Momo to grow up, and those losses make him an adult and he's learning to be braver, and follow in his dad's foot steps

[plush pike]

I wouldn't say it's the whole point, but it's certainly an important part of it.

[junior cape]

He's been writing OP for 20+ years and I'm sure he's written himself into plenty of corners like this, but he's always somehow pulled it off, give him a chance here

[fathom matrix]

It feels off and doesn't seem necessary

[plush pike]

The only other time I was let down by Oda's writing was in Chapter 901 when it was revealed the Sunny was switched out with another ship.

I was theorizing all kinds of things like "They're going to go to Wano and tell Franky that Sunny is destroyed, and Sanji will get the blame blah blah blah. And then they will have to go back and get the remains of the ship so Franky can fix her up."

[fathom matrix]

I see it more as a tactic from Onimaru, to strike the enemies making them scared that "AAAAAH, KOZUKI ODEN'S BACK FROM THE DEAD!" and it instill confusion, fear and questions in the enemies. It may not last long but it could do something. Hell, maybe he lies to help give the scabbards that last bit of drive.

Also, why leave Onimaru out? Literally a lot of key players are in wano, hiyori might be there, tama's there, a lot of peopl, Onimaru can fight, why not have him there?

[plush pike]

But it wasn't a huge deal. This not being Oden will always feel like a let down regardless of what the alternative is IMO.

Oh I agree, he should be here, but he shouldn't be Oden.

[fathom matrix]

HELL, I can even buy it being Kanjuro for a sneak attack, I can believe and accept that

[thick sky]

that wasn't bad. they wouldn't be that improper to let their ship be destroyed.

[fathom matrix]

cause he CAN create perfect ink clones.

[plush pike]

I said I was let down, not that it was bad writing. I still thoroughly enjoyed chapter 900 with the fever dream song.

But it was kind of a cheap cop out next chapter, which I didn't particularly care for.

Implying something and then immediately dragging the weight of that revelation away next chapter and resolve it feels cheap to me.

[fathom matrix]

Look, I love Oden, we all do, but I think it would be bad writing it he came back. Regardless if it was the real him or a ghost.

[plush pike]

Fair enough, do you have a better idea?

[fathom matrix]

like I said, Onimaru or a sneak attack from Kanjuro with an ink clone

[plush pike]

Eh, okay, lets go with that. What would Onimaru's goal be to imitate Oden?

[fathom matrix]

strike fear in the beast pirates, cause confusion, raise moral for the allies, have Orochi's bullshit be even more "true", and it may not last for long, but it'll do something for a while.

[plush pike]

But why reveal himself to the scabbards that would ask him all kinds of questions immediately and probably find out he's not Oden?

[fathom matrix]

Probably to boost their moral too, even if it's wrong, or make the illusion seem real.

[plush pike]

I feel the pay off is not there for this cliffhanger to be resolved in that way.

[thick sky]

there's still a major piece which doesn't fit in Wano's current scenario. FUKUROKUJU. What the hell is he doing? its already 17 chapters since he was last shown

[plush pike]

Yeah, he's definitely going after Orochi's body IMO

[fathom matrix]

I think he's retrieved Orochi's body

cause we saw the head, haven't seen the body in a while

[plush pike]

True.

But yeah, I don't think it's Onimaru, because he could have let the Scabbards in on his plan instead of deceiving them, which is pretty shameful for a samurai to do with his own allies.

If he really meant to portray Oden to strike fear into the beast pirates, he should do that, not appear as Oden to people who worship him in order to deceive them.

[thick sky]

did you read the pinned theory by juba

[plush pike]

Plus, we still haven't established that Onimaru can even transform into more than Gyukimaru, and I'm unsure how much I'd like that. His story was pretty cool to be honest, basically staying in his kitsune form to help Kawamatsu all that time, and continuing his quest even after Kawamatsu was captured, 20 years later.

[light pond]

@plush pike whats ur guess? Who is this Oden?

[plush pike]

My guess, it is a yet to be revealed ability of the Toki Toki no Mi. A temporary time travel ability that is only used in certain circumstances when the character's presence is still needed in the past, but also in the future.

[plush pike]

Yes I read it. It's a huge, major let down after this cliffhanger. If it wasn't for the cliffhanger, I could see it being an "okay, we're seeing Onimaru and Hiyori here, cool." But showing it in this way implies it's something more than "more allies are joining the battle", it feels like a series changing revelation.

[light pond]

The toki powers is much more incoherent than the onimaru theory in many way specially when toki have set the limitations of her powers from the start

[plush pike]

From the reference point of the ability, it wouldn't be backwards time travel.

[light pond]

Also Oden died before toki did

[plush pike]

I'm not implying they used it after Oden got executed.

[tidal fulcrum]

Remember lurking legend

[light pond]

And the if it really is the Oden from the past he should have his swords but nope he have diff sword and diff attire

[plush pike]

Wasn't that Xebec?

[tidal fulcrum]

There he is the tide turner for supernova

[kind gate]

If oden moves to the future the future becomes his present meaning going back would be time traveling backwards which is a no no

[tidal fulcrum]

In wano mention before and we’re guessing non stop

[light pond]

Dont imply this is the real oden

[plush pike]

Not if he is only there on borrowed time, meaning you can either go there permanently, or temporarily, but you can't choose which after going there.

[kind gate]

Nothing like borrowed time

[tidal fulcrum]

9scarbbard 1traitor 10 in the room

[light pond]

Then why does he have diff swords and getup?

[tidal fulcrum]

Hiyori and oden

[plush pike]

When he was imprisoned, he gave his swords to Toki for her to give to their children.

[tidal fulcrum]

Well he passed down the word

[plush pike]

If it's really Oden in the room, then it's 100% Toki too IMO, I don't see a Hiyori/Oden combo being reasonable.

[light pond]

If u implied he used it in prison how does he have not any scars or wounds he recieved from kaido?

[plush pike]

Where are his wounds on the execution date?

[tidal fulcrum]

One piece logic.. and oda we’re speaking.. toki havin hype ability and send ppl from the past to future.. with her being said to die of some reason but no body shown

[plush pike]

The very next panel.

[light pond]

The theory of toki's hidden power is more illogical than it being onimaru or kanjuro's drawing

[tidal fulcrum]

But who will be so nice enough to actually heal all the scarbard.. tats why ruling blackbeard out

[plush pike]

That's not the very next panel, that's Oden in the boiling pot.

[kind gate]

Huh

[light pond]

U said execution? That is his execution

[dusky acorn]

There's still possible ways for Yamato to develop by seeing this Oden, even without it being the real one
Like, say this "Oden" is here for evil reasons to get the Scabbards guards down, it could enact Yamato wanting to get retribution for disgracing his image and fighting whoever is responsible for it (Main evil Oden theory is Kanjuro)

Even if it was Onimaru that wouldnt be a letdown in my eyes either

[plush pike]

I said execution date, you cherry picked after he was hurt by the boiling oil (which could have opened up his wounds again), and while he was in prison. Let me see if I can find the real panels I'm talking about.

[dusky acorn]

Sure it wouldn't make for as deep development for Yamato but hey, it could make for some pretty funny scenes lol

Even wanting this to be the real Oden is a stertch at the end of the day

[tidal fulcrum]

Hahah if it is oden and toki we will expect another 2weeks of back story at least

[light pond]

Also does he ever met toki while in prison doesnt he send her a letter and not met in person?

[dusky acorn]

My main point with this is sorta just.. beggars can't be choosers y'know? Equating scenarios like Onimaru/Kanjuro to it being THE Oden shouldn't really be something up for discussion. Like, I'm trying to think of a good example

Oh here's one, it's sorta like saying Marco/Izo coming to Wano is a letdown because you instead think it should have been all the WB commanders. (Which is clearly disingenuous when Marco/Izo coming to Wano is a pretty cool revelation just in their own right. Same thing applies here with Onimaru//Kanjuro theories)

[light pond]

Toki never met Oden during his time in prison he just sent her a letter

[plush pike]

Where are his wounds here?

The scar would be covered up by the kimono.

[light pond]

Oh they did meet but oden had a scar

@plush pike ur arguement is invalid now that is not how oden look when they met in prison

[plush pike]

So..? She could have used her powers on him later and he could've healed sometime before meeting the scabbards.

[light pond]

And how would have toki used his powers in a public place like that

[plush pike]

That's what's implied anyway by him not having a bandage on his head during the next day, he heals fast.

[kind gate]

[light pond]

U see the point is toki using this powers that contradicts the limitations she set in the beginning is very illogical

[polar bison]

this is my problem

there’s nothing real to this logic. this silhouette of oden got the last page of a chapter that wasn’t even slightly about him or even the scabbards. no hype, no foreshadowing, nothing. it’s completely come out of the blue, but you’re confidently saying

it feels like a series changing revelation

no it doesn’t. ur feelings do not represent reality, and this is empty logic.

there’s absolutely no way Oda actually expects us to believe this is the real Oden after the great lengths he went to document his incredible life and death in the last 50 chapters. the man got narration, an onscreen death, and a promise from his wife not to use her hax abilities (+ a confirmation humans can’t go to the past).

there’s nothing more to be said. he’s dead. oda’s made that clear.

[hollow crag]

Erm... did badwolf block me or something?

[light pond]

Every arguement you throws on this toki logic is very much incoherent and can easily be dismissed at this point

[polar bison]

someone’s doing this to get feelings from the scabbards, good or bad. Oda’s doing it to get feelings from the audience. that’s all this is

[plush pike]

Dude, can you recognize the difference between feeling and logic? I'm clearly not making an argument for my case when I'm saying that Nuance is so hard to come by these days.

[kind gate]

Oden die

[polar bison]

not really but there’s none in this specific question

[plush pike]

I don't disagree.

[molten lotus]

Oda's foreshadowimg are an equation that only him can understand

[kind gate]

The end

[plush pike]

Yes, the boiling was the end of Oden's life.

[kind gate]

Very good

[polar bison]

ok so your only argument here is that Toki might’ve somehow temporarily transferred him to the future

[plush pike]

No, that's my prediction

[kind gate]

Can’t work relative to oden the ability would take him back in time

[hollow crag]

@light pond?

[plush pike]

Relative to the ability there would be no backwards time travel.

[polar bison]

and then back to the past. this is wrong because Toki says she’s incapable of such a thing

[molten lotus]

I think I just realized the letter is incomplete, Toki shreds the rest of it before finishing it

[kind gate]

Yes

[light pond]

Yes she did it might hold secrets about the thing she wanted to know

[kind gate]

Relative to ability¿¿Relative to time which is what her powers are based on

[plush pike]

Relative to the present, which is when she used her ability

[kind gate]

Present becomes past when you’re in the future

[light pond]

What? It would be a complete paradox if she did that and that is what Oda tries to avoid by setting the limits of her powers

[plush pike]

I don't disagree. But the ability was used in the present and only makes the user go back to the present.

[kind gate]

[plush pike]

Folarin do you mind not commenting the same reaction emoji over and over?

[light pond]

If she snatches oden from the past how the hell will she send him back if she cant send back people to the past?

[pure raven]

it is making things complex

[kind gate]

Tokis powers do not work like a simple paper drawn timeline

[molten lotus]

Look man this is really weird but chapter 967 is the start of Oden's backstory, chapter 987 marks the start of the raid and chapter 1007 is Oden's appearance, all of them 20 chapters apart

[kind gate]

The past future and present are all relative to an individual

[plush pike]

O.o

[light pond]

Her powers is simple jump to the future that is it no going back to the past and no snatching people from the past

[plush pike]

That's pretty interesting.

[molten lotus]

It blew my mind, what is Oda on about

[thick sky]

being possible to go only forward in time is the best way to not have contradictions and different timeverses, don't think oda would make past travel a thing in one piece

[kind gate]

This means the if I were to go back in time this current present becomes the future and if I were to go forward it means the present becomes the past and I can never get the same present again due to alternate timelines being formed

[light pond]

The smoke the swords and the kimono pretty much implies this is a fake oden to me

[pure raven]

every one r one same page bro

[plush pike]

Well, we have future sight already, how is that not influencing the past and causing paradoxes?

[molten lotus]

What do you mean by that?

[kind gate]

@plush pike

[plush pike]

That's literally how Luffy defeats the Elephant stomach guy. He sees a bad future and stops it from happening.

[light pond]

Cause future hasnt happen yet and everybody has the power to change it but changing the past also changes the present resulting in paradox

[thick sky]

yea ^^ @plush pike

[pure raven]

"It blew my mind,"

[kind gate]

Seeing a possible future isn’t the same as going into it and returning

[molten lotus]

Well it did, we all know Oda likes gimmicks like that

[plush pike]

Well it's not very dissimilar, as that future may simply change through their actions, just like a future sight user would do.

[light pond]

Rewriting the past is a simple easy way to destroy a story

[kind gate]

Luffy what’s going to happen and changes the future. The future is the only part of time that can be affected meaning every move you make can’t affect the past nor the present

[light pond]

No it is not since future aint fix while present and past are already fixed

[thick sky]

it will create another timeline

[kind gate]

So how would Oden remove himself from time and come back. There would be another timeline created

[plush pike]

Yes, which is what Luffy did in Udon.

[thick sky]

future sight isn't creating a different timeline

[kind gate]

Thank you

[plush pike]

There's no reason why it wouldn't.

[thick sky]

luffy didn't create a different timeline.

[plush pike]

You're very sure of that.

[light pond]

[thick sky]

why?

[pure raven]

it is more like creating new possibility

[thick sky]

do you understand what it means to create a different timeline and what time paradoxes are, fresh

[plush pike]

Okay, this is getting emotional and you guys are being a bit obnoxious, so I'mma leave and let you guys hash out your feelings. I'm literally only trying to figure out what the hell is going on along with you guys.

[kind gate]

It’s like getting a tip on what your opponent is going to do it doesn’t create a different one because in every timeline it’s the same

[kind gate]

Huh

Ur view of time is too 2 dimensional