manga-theories

[deft sparrow]

https://tenor.com/view/chopper-one-piece-gif-21502508

https://tenor.com/view/zoro-king-of-hell-chopper-one-piece-gif-9827074143407920163

@remote silo us^

[wild vector]

Is there any basis in the story for why people think Luffy will eat the mother flame?

I really think the mother flame is actual fire fed an amphibian Zoan like a newt.

[remote silo]

Oh a salamander by chance? Also I agree that mother flame isn’t a literal star

In regards to direct clues, I’d say the mural was the first time I saw something leaning that direction. The sun has been plucked out of the sky.

Beyond that not long after Little Garden, I got the vibe that we’re heading towards Ragnarok. Which means a tree is gonna burn down at the heart of the world, and the sun will eventually be eaten. And it just so happens a gigantic tree lives in Elbaf

Luffy is woven from so many different myths, including of course Sun Wukong, that I have just been having a blast thinking about the story through the mythological lens

[boreal geode]

Hear me out, could it be that Rocks started his dead fight against Roger and Garp, attacking their marines and crew, when he realized Teach had a way out as long as there was a big enough diversion?
For example, he may have seen Dragon hiding Garling sons and maybe even his own.
Then we may have, instead, Whiteboard stopping Garling during dragon escape with the child's without knowing who they are, for the simple fact they are children

[remote silo]

Also I just think the Mother Flame is directly linked to Nika which is why they can’t get it to work. Joyboy has been missing his energy source this whole time imo. We’re probably still following an extremely weakened and nerfed version of Joyboy atm

We do know that the Drums of Liberation activates ancient tech tho, including things that would need a power source, such as the giant robot

(Unrelated I just wanted to say that I looove that the ocean dances to the Drums of Liberation)

[wild vector]

Yes! The axolotl is Sara Sara model axolotl. So there could be a Sara Sara model Newt. You can see blurb and gurb sound effects suggesting it's breathing. We also need an explanation for how a fire is submerged in a liquid. We also need to know how it can be split into pieces and still put out enough power to blast that weapon.

So my bet is Newt, I tried to draw around what I believe to be part of its body. Like a devil fruit user, because it's submerged, it can't transform. However it still maintains it's properties. Meaning the fire still emits an energy that can be harnessed.

Ahh I don't know much about that lore. I don't see the tree coming down but who knows how it will play out.

I'm still betting that the first Nika was fire given the human fruit.

[wild vector]

I don't think it powered the robot. It just made him remember joyboy. Which could indicate he isn't technology. Emet could be a giant turned toy.

[remote silo]

I asked cause it just so happens to be Imu’s form: a giant salamander-like creature. A symbol that ALSO shows up when Moria uses his powers (go check out when he stabbed Oars through the skull to see what I mean).

We also know that some DF powers are permanent. I don’t have faith in this next thought, but I was nearly convinced that Imu used the Op Op fruit to switch into whoever was actually made immortal and has resided in that body ever since

[wild vector]

That's what I've been thinking as well. Pretty sure Lily had whatever fruit he took.

[remote silo]

We actually do see him power up tho. Vegapunk tells old man Luffy and old man chopper about how he can’t figure out how to power it up. Its eyes begin to glow once the Drums of Liberation can be heard across the island. same thing happened 400 years earlier. Unless he has the best batteries in existence, something is giving it the power to awaken

Also everything needed to be powered up by Enel when he went to the moon. They seem like they had similar tech but they didn’t have juice till he fed it his delicious electricity

[wild vector]

That could just be him waking up and deciding to move. Vegapunk assumes it has a power source because it looks like technology.

But look at the "dead" toys getting up when they hear king riku.

Since it decided to attack the holy land 400 years ago, I think he heard Nika. The 5 elders says it hasn't been awakened but they also said the fruit kept escaping them.

Maybe Imu fucked around with the fruit in secret and killed it soon. Hence why the robot stopped moving because he no longer heard the heard beat.

[remote silo]

The Elders also have been revealed to be dumb shits who lie enough to not take their word on things. Perhaps a tribe at that time still knew the Drums of Liberation? I have wondered how without an awakening ever since

[wild vector]

I don't think drums of liberation will be any kind of power source.

Nika was said to free the slaves. The Nika form has a loud drum like heartbeat.

So drums of liberation probably just refers to what people felt when they neard Nika coming. Ie they knew they would be free soon when they heard that heartbeat coming.

[remote silo]

There are definitely so many angles you could approach this that doesn’t line up with my idea!

I just think it’s very clean way to wrap that thread up.

Also Oda just has a tendency to give us the answers straight to our face, cause he knows we’ll get it later. Usually by the time we figure everything out in his arcs, it makes complete sense cause he already told us. I doubt he wants to over complicate things much more than they already are lol

Lastly, the fruit has evaded Imu for 800 years so they’ve never had the opportunity to experiment with it

[wild vector]

I really just wanna get back to the Imu situation. I hope he stops god valley and goes to how Harald died.

That's true. I still think being a toy makes the most sense. He's living well beyond the life span of a ancient giant and we know toys just live till they rust away entirely. Not to mention odas little robot clues in the cover story. The x symbol on the toy as well as Emet just makes it all the more curious.

Then you factor in Emet wearing the same clothes as a giant from elbaph and im pretty sure he was a giant.

The doffy pirates are coming to cross guild for sure, so if they try to invade egghead we have the possibility of Emet being turned human again.

[remote silo]

Oh I am on board with him originally having been a toy, I like it. Tho him having been a human first is also fun. I was just saying that doesn’t disqualify the need for a power source

We also know inanimate objects that are loved and cared for can develop souls. That’s a possibility as well. Could have started as a mindless war machine for all we know till Joyboy befriended him

[wild vector]

If he is a toy, his power source would probably be infinite. As that's just devil fruit magic.

[wild vector]

There hasn't been enough really evidence to suggest that outside of merry. And whole they may have a "soul" they aren't actually sentient.

But this would also have to mean that the robot in elbaph is a corpse of a past giant turned toy.

[remote silo]

I guess there’s not more evidence than Merry since we’re mostly from the straw hat’s perspective, but I’m not sure what else is needed to prove this. It’s in the text of the story.

Since we absolutely 100% know souls can fuse with inanimate objects, we know for certain they are perfectly hospitable to souls, and they’re sentient for certain

As well, Zoro’s sword is entangled Oden’s spirit, and has been shown to have some degree of sentience

[limber nova]

Is the sun really the mother flame?

[wild vector]

This is like suggesting that if bonney treats the Kuma robots as her father that they could potentially become sentient. I'm just doubtful of that.

As far as alabasta, that isn't a soul popping up out of no where. It's a devil fruit .

But that still isn't actual sentience or life(the sword)

[remote silo]

Unsure actually. I personally waffle on what it could be. Like it could be totally practical, like nuclear fusion or something. It could be just a part of Nika that can’t work as just one piece

[wild vector]

That panel where caramel calls Prometheus the sun god after giving fire a soul really makes me think the mother flame will be a piece of Nika that can be used for energy.

[pure tusk]

He’s based off Hanuman the monkey god that eats the sun oda even calls him that in one of his notes

[remote silo]

And we’ll finally get to see true peak Gear 5! Luffy gonna stretch to the size of the planet lol

[wild vector]

I don't think that's enough to really base a accurate theory on. Look at how all the Saturn blue sapphire theories panned out.

[remote silo]

I mean it could be as simple as the mother flame is the one piece missing that Joyboy needs. Roger called the treasure the One Piece, and we know that not everyone’s treasure is gold and jewels. Maybe he knows Joyboy will reunite with the one missing piece, and then the world will change

[wild vector]

Still too much random speculation to make it fit.

[pure tusk]

Wdym that’s plenty he literally writes luffy as Hanuman if you don’t see that as evidence I don’t think what else you can. Also just because another theory was disproved doesn’t equate to this one being disproven or lacking evidence i also don’t even know about that theory

[remote silo]

Roger’s job was simply to inspire Joyboy to adventure. That’s why he started the great pirate age. Luffy woulda been super bored with how the oceans used to be. He ensured that it would be challenging and fun by flooding the seas with pirates, and the grand line is already built like game that starts with a rollercoaster ride. He definitely set the stage for Joyboy’s return

[wild vector]

I'm saying just because there's some mythological tie ins doesn't mean that's the way it's gonna go.

Especially when the clues suggested at the very least that the mother flame is alive.

[pure tusk]

I mean you can’t really disprove it so it doesn’t matter really either way it’s speculation

[remote silo]

I forgot to mention thank you for that! I did not know about those notes and now I have new mythology to explore

[last estuary]

In hindu mythology, Hanuman tries to eat Surya dev (Sun) mistaking it for a ripe mango but was struck by Indra dev (supreme deity of Heaven himself) before he could hence how he got his name.

[wild vector]

Based on the "too Early" remark, it could just be something having to do with prophecy. Like other people weren't there yet.

The dawn seems to be something expected.

[pure tusk]

Of course Oda also loves super Mario which a theory of mine is that he eats the motherflame and turns into a rainbow form we have already seen he can change colors the next step is rainbow evolution

[remote silo]

Omg yes please

[pure tusk]

Also white light through a prism is a rainbow and if you didn’t know oda loves rainbows there everywhere on the color version

[remote silo]

Wait that’s a HELLA good point!

[wild vector]

It still doesn't make sense. How is eating fire supposed to power up Luffy. Just because it hasn't happened doesn't mean it's likely to actually happen

[remote silo]

Also to add to this, our sun isn’t yellow. It’s actually white

[pure tusk]

I think it makes perfect sense as a powerup it’s a fictional story at the end of the day. Also it does mean it’s more likely to happen than not because there is compelling written evidence for it

[wild vector]

How? Luffy doesn't run on energy. The mother flame is supposed to be something good for man kind because it can provide energy.

Just because it sounds interesting and cool to you doesn't mean it's plausible.

[pure tusk]

Wdym he literally eats food as his energy source?

[wild vector]

People eat food. Fire is not food.

[pure tusk]

You said luffy doesn’t on energy that was wrong he does and it’s a fictional story with a looney toon character he can eat a flame and it would be no different from eating food to power him up

[wild vector]

Nitpicking word choice doesn't change the fact. Luffy eating a fire makes no sense. It doesn't matter that it's a fictional universe. It doesn't fit.

[pure tusk]

You can definitely disagree on the fact you don’t think this will happen but you can’t discredit the fact that it is a strong possibility given the fact that there is strong evidence and imagery of it. We have seen luffy eat a bolt of fire already

[pure tusk]

I think that matter because I’m addressing your argument also I think you are too set into the idea that it’s not possible no matter how much evidence is presented

[wild vector]

I need to see the entire context. But still eating the mother flame doesn't make sense. Even logistics wise. They aren't even near it

[pure tusk]

I mean luffy eats a fire bolt from kizaru which is exactly the same as the motherflame so it makes sense he’s a looney toons character the logistics aren’t meant to make sense lol

[wild vector]

That's not eating it though. That's like saying Luffy ate crocodile so he can eat a desert

[pure tusk]

That’s copium

[wild vector]

That's a relative comparison of what you are saying.

Does Luffy get sort of power when he eats that?

[pure tusk]

That’s a false equivalency

[remote silo]

This conversation has made me start to wonder if perhaps the real Nika was originally inanimate. Like something I thought about along these lines before is how rubber is made from tree sap.

So perhaps he was a golem, maybe to act as a symbol by slaves deep below ground long, long ago. They could only use the limited material they’d have access to, and we know Adam’s roots go deep.

This god symbol absorbed all their wishes and dreams and wants and desires long after the person who desired it had died.

This would line up with how we know objects can become alive and sentient. Love and care and reverence. Merry is what happened with just a handful of people!

One reason I think this:

on the mural we have workers going down below the ground and coming up with clouds looking like angels (Skypiea but underground? World upside down?)

The mother flame likely produces the fossil clouds we know in the modern world. So the slaves probably chose it to worship as a part of Nika. Infinite energy source come to life harboring resentment for any and all oppression

[wild vector]

eating a bolt of light is equivalent to trying to eat crocodile to fight him.

Did Luffy digest the light? It just shot out of his mouth.

You are conflated "evidence" of actual likelihood with what amounts to Luffy just literally eating an attack.

I can't remember the context so I don't know why he does that but if I see the panels before I'm sure it would be more clear.

[wild vector]

If the original Nika was an inanimate flame, it would be able to split itself into pieces the same way smiley did.

Smiley was poison but because his body didn't have a fixed state, he was capable of splitting himself into pieces.

[pure tusk]

This isn’t really an argument because that’s entirely different luffy eats crocidle to stop him in this panel Luffy actually does gain additional power he gained an additional layer of flames when he ate that bolt if you have him much stronger like amotheflame he likely would unlock a more colorful form like the gorosei

[remote silo]

Also I think maybe part of the disagreement here is whether or not we define food as fuel and energy. It is. Would an eternally burning flame also be a source of energy? Absolutely! Not for us humans but we’re in the land of demigods

Now zoom out a bit and consider how this is a modern myth. Myths go crazy, and eating a sun isn’t even that crazy as far as real world myths go. And Oda pulls from a lotta mythologies

[pure tusk]

When luffy eats the motherflame he gained an extra layer of flame like gorosei which is why I foresee his form going to be a rainbow form if he does eat the motherflame

[remote silo]

I also was thinking about how Kizaru goes prism mode and looks so fuckin cool doin it

[pure tusk]

Yea kizaru is one of if not my favorite admiral I wish we got a longer drawn out fight similar to katakuri with him but the anime also did him well

[remote silo]

I like your theory a lot and have subscribed

Also lines up so nicely with my theory! The theory I’m sure nobody else has ever thought of before me of course

[finite veldt]

Do you think the rest of the strawhats will get a powerfull upgrade before the final war ? Like some advanced haki form or a devil fruit perhaps ?

[mighty falcon]

Gaimon is Zoro’s father.

Davy attributes on bad timeline.

For Zoro to have giant horns he need a dwarf and giant parent.

[remote silo]

Usopp will be the savior of Elbaf, and become the third Joyboy OR if you’re not insane like me, he gains an army of 8,000 giants when he saves everyone, which would be a hell of an upgrade

Directed at piqupi

[pure tusk]

Oh nice thanks you gotta tell me about your theory. Also have you seen my Uranus = The Emerald city theory it’s my best theory by far

[mighty falcon]

Gaimon is literally Zoro’s father. Arashi is Gaimons real name.

[remote silo]

My theory was that Luffy eats the sun (mother flame) and we get to see TRUE Joyboy at his peak haha

[mighty falcon]

Luffy is the mother flame.

[pure tusk]

I could see that for sure that really inline with my theory and an idea that I have played around with I’m just unsure if the motherflame existed by during the void century. But I think that was the case with original nika who stole the sun in the first world

[finite veldt]

Yeah but even that he cant 1v1 anyone also sanji will not use germa suit again only nami and robin got somewhat of an upgrade not even close to the needs of a yonko crew andi sanji jibne franky ussop chopper brook are pretty weak

• for sanji i think he needs just conquerors haki about the other maybe ussop getting a DF power?

[remote silo]

Personally I think it’ll be shown to be the other way around: the mother flame is Luffy’s

[pure tusk]

@remote silo if you haven’t already def check out my Uranus = The Emerald city theory it was by far my best reddit theory and it’s why Joygirl turned it into a video https://youtu.be/KNAoKnNrvLo?si=hA9YSeZSPiQF69UV

[remote silo]

Nami is the best thief in the world. She literally stole one of Big Mom’s bodyguards. Put some respect on her name

[pure tusk]

I think we eventually will see Usopp go into a Nika form he is really tied with that character as well

[remote silo]

Taking a gander now. Thanks! I know theorizing isn’t for everyone but it’s so my jam lol

I only regret I didn’t start One Piece until after the live action

[remote silo]

We know that afros are also connected to Joyboy/maybe Nika as like a power up. So Brook is gonna be the strongest crewmate

[pure tusk]

Oh yea that was the other part of my theory that Luffy would gain a rainbow Afro so you are def cooking 🔥

[remote silo]

Gonna be funny when I’m totally wrong and the one missing piece is Joyboy’s Afro

[remote silo]

Oh hope you don’t mind as this is only tangentially related, but I think there’s always been a reason why people, even avg people, are pretty hard to kill.

If Luffy’s true power is that he inspires others to be their own interpretation of being Nika-like, it makes me think that the people all across the world being oppressed and the reason for the void century is that everyone in the world is capable of becoming Nika-like. If this were to be the case, then people would realize the power they have that’s been erased from everyone.

That could be why Imu doesn’t even want a single syllable to escape from anyone’s lips about the void century. It would be impossible to keep control.

So everyone’s hard to kill because everyone is a fragment of Nika. That’s how one’s will can push them well past bodily limits, such as with half your head missing. Everyone from this planet has a spark in their soul from Nika, just like how all of us are formed out of stardust from a supernova’d star

People realizing they have the power to remove their shackles is like class consciousness, which reminds us that we’re unstoppable as a collective

[mighty falcon]

Incorrect. Luffys true power is granting wishes. Luffy is a genie. The Nika Nika no mi is the origin devil fruit. It allows the user to make new fruits from the dreams of others. 3 wishes and the Nika Nika user dies. Wishes are tied to fruit power not any wish.

The reason luffy can do cartoonish stuff in gear 5 is because he’s the genie out of the lamp. Genies have their own laws of physics.

[mighty moon]

Thats Daifuku's fruit

[mighty falcon]

Gaimon is literally Zoro’s father arashi, not a joke. You all think I’m joking. I’m dead serious. It’s not theory. It’s fact

It all ties into zoro being the literal one piece.

[mighty moon]

I believe you

[mighty falcon]

Kuina died giving Zoro the immortal surgery.

[remote silo]

Luffy has cartoonish powers because he’s a looney tune. The most OP characters in animation

[mighty falcon]

Nope. Go rewatch Aladdin. Luffy is a genie in gear 5 and in base form. That’s why he has his own physics. Because genies don’t obey laws of physics. All stated in Aladdin.

Oda was clearly inspired by the genie from Aladdin.

You see the same cartoonish features.

Eyeballs popping out and everything.

[remote silo]

But also yes! I’ve had that exact thought. It’s like this world had a wish granter at some point in their past. I’ve joked before that the D. stands for Djinn for a long time lol

[mighty falcon]

Stands for Douriki. The origin of haki. Information on Douriki was destroyed during void century.

They were likely a tribe, the Douriki tribe.

[remote silo]

But also nothing about the cartoon features in Alladin originated there. He has been writing love letters to the Looney Tunes era all throughout One Piece

Hell, the story fits Tom and Jerry more closely than Alladin. Eyes popping out like that goes way way way back in animation history. Joyboy/Nika/Luffy are Jerry (the mouse). Imu is Tom. And Tom almost always loses to Jerry

[mighty falcon]

The idea of the genie in the lamp being in a cartoon universes with regular physics and being the only thing capable of bending those physics was new.

And because all natural devil fruits stem from Nika Nika fruit, all fruits come from the genie. Meaning the genie is still the one breaking the physics at the root. Every devil fruit that wasn’t made by science was made by the Nika Nika fruit.

Ope ope real name is mythical Zoan human model sword god Ryuma

You can see the room hand motion from his left hand. And a bubble form at end of sword.

[remote silo]

All the A team looney tunes famously are reality benders. Luffy pulling a baseball bat out of thin air? That’s Bugs Bunny

[mighty falcon]

Doesn’t matter bugs bunny isn’t a genie. Bugs bunny isn’t meant to grant wishes and liberate.

Joyboy made 3 fruits, toki toki no mi, Mythical Zoan human model sword god Ryuma, and Yami Yami fruit. Yami Yami being his biggest regret.

Gaimon is literally Zoro’s father. Arashi was the name Gaimon had before he got ship wrecked.

Zoro is 19 when we meet him. Gaimon has been stranded 20 years.

[remote silo]

Bugs Bunny and Luffy actually do share DNA. They’re both forms of the trickster god.

[mighty falcon]

Luffy isn’t a trickster. He’s a dreamer. His mother’s name is Umi.

[mighty falcon]

Zoro is also part dwarf, part giant, part Davy, part Shimotsuki. Wano had dwarfs people didn’t notice tho. Gaimon is a dwarf with wano based hair color.

Notice that no matter the timeline zoro keeps the hair where the “horn” base would be on his skull? Zoro is literally the one piece.

[remote silo]

Trickster gods can be dreamers. What I mean by that tho is trickster gods tend to always be in the middle of end times scenarios. They either caused it (out of boredom, to see what happens, or by accident usually)

It doesn’t matter whether or not Luffy even knows this, that his mere presence will cause a world war that turns the world upside down.

He just wants to have fun, be playful, and go on adventures. Big trickster god energy

[mighty falcon]

lol. Luffy isn’t Him tho. The man Roger was waiting for is Zoro.

Zoro is literally the one piece. The title of the anime is literally Zoro.

Chapter 5 luffy becomes the pirate king.

[remote silo]

Not to mention Luffy is the personification of chaos. When him or his crew show up it’s utter madness from the perspective of the people they’re fighting.

Luffy literally came up with the most trickster god plan on his own: create a ton of Luffy’s out of monkeys and introduce pandemonium at a wedding

[mighty falcon]

I think his fruit power can also influence free will. Some of his crew mates might be under the influence of the fruit itself.

Important to note that the fruit does this not Luffy consciously.

I think the government wants the fruit because they know it can influence the free will of others.

[remote silo]

I don’t think Luffy is bound to any kind of fate or prophecy, I think he’s like a glitch in the system and essentially infects others with the same kinda glitch.

If he was bound to a determined outcome, that would be the complete opposite of freedom

[mighty falcon]

Zoro is the laugh tale prophecy.

Ryuma was Him.

Ryuma made the ope ope fruit with the help of joyboy, the ope ope fruit immortal surgery doesn’t just provide immortality. If the user gives immortality with a free and whole heart that has no corruption, they will be reincarnated.

Ryuma detailed the fruit power in his mind to the extent it lead to Kuina’s reincarnation.

There is no way to overstate how Him Ryuma was.

[remote silo]

God that would suck. Reincarnation is far inferior to Inherited Will

[mighty falcon]

It only works for ope ope fruit though. It’s part of the immortal surgery itself.

Kuina gave her life so that Zoro could achieve his dream. And so that no one could kill him. Her heart was pure and whole. She didn’t kill herself. She gave faith, with her life, in the man she believed in.

[remote silo]

People die. I think it’s perhaps the most important theme of one piece, which is that we all carry with us pieces of those who are no longer here, no longer with us.

There probably will be reincarnation involved, which I think would be a shame since I think it runs counter to this ideal he’s shown all throughout the story

[mighty falcon]

There are no stairs in shimotsuki village. And even if there were she was one of the most talented swords in the region. She wouldn’t die falling down stairs.

They couldn’t tell zoro she died giving him immortality. Because that would taint his dream.

If Zoro knew how Kuina actually died he’d never stop blaming himself. This would result in the bad time line Zoro for sure.

[remote silo]

There are other reasonable answers to that enigma. For instance, being a polite way to say she took her life.

[mighty falcon]

She wouldn’t have done that in such a careless way. It doesn’t make rational sense. The ope ope fruit becomes available for law the same time she dies.

When Kuina dies is when the ope ope fruit just randomly spawns into the world.

Another random coincidence akin to Gaimon being trapped exactly 20 years and Zoro being 19 when we meet him.

[remote silo]

That said, I think Zoro has been carrying her spirit this entire time. And when he becomes the world’s greatest swordsman, it will be him as female Zoro

[mighty falcon]

Do you think zoro is already immortal yes or no? Have you seen enough proof in the series to determine he could have immortality?

Kk let me rattle off a few.

He ate razor blades and poison fed to him by sanji. Confirmed by Oda.

You meet him on the cross.

He says he can go forever without food if he has to

He says he can eat anything

He shows he can eat anything

Cut almost in 2 by mihawk

Walks it off and solos arlongs crew

Arlong sees Zoro’s scar and shits his pants.

What else is there to show he’s already immortal

Oh right he tanked ocean supremacy dual yonko conqueors haki attack.

Then scared kaido after with every bone in his body broken.

Yeah he’s not immortal I’m clearly an idiot.

I still don’t think any of you actually read one piece. I’m not sure what you reading tbh.

[remote silo]

I just don’t have enough info on what One Piece immortality is like. We only have one frame of reference that I’m aware of, and it’s a character we know the least about

I know exactly what you’re saying, but I have no clue if that matches up with one piece immortality. Like, does an immortal gets scars? Or does it knit right up clean as before?

The answer is I have no idea.

Whitebeard beat the shit out of a hundred marines with half his brain missing. Was he immortal? Or is it that in this world one’s spirit and will can push well beyond normal limits. Almost like everyone’s body is just a vessel.

[mighty falcon]

It’s a bit different when you actually eat razor blades and poison, the poison probably akin to what almost GGed Luffy and sanji sister had to save him.

Zoro has no fruit power to stop razor blades and poison from killing him.

[remote silo]

That’s simply not enough evidence for me. All kinds of people are weird in this world.

All this said, I think it would be cool if you’re right. I like it, and it would clear up a lot of mysteries including why he’s the straw hat we know the least about in his past

[mighty falcon]

Why did Oda respond hnnnn… AMAZING! And then proceed to confirm that sanji did infact feed Zoro razor blades and poison. Which isn’t probably the first time he’s done it or the last.

Sanji fans don’t have any idea the degree of Rat he is. Idolizing sanji is like idolizing a wet possum.

I’m looking forward to imu domi reversal on sanji tbh.

[remote silo]

Surviving eating razors in this world simply isn’t a very impressive feat. People survive canon balls shot directly at their faces.

And Sanji would never truly put a straw hat in danger knowingly. Even Zoro. So he knew it would be fine, for reasons I can only guess

I just think Zoro is so resilient because he’s housing two souls. Sanji’s so resilient because he’s carrying the lost humanity of his brothers.

Will and spirit push you way past limits in this world, and even death can be delayed. And Zoro, imho, has two, so double everything I just said

[mighty falcon]

Sanji is far from resilient my friend. Sanji is a cautionary tale. He’s betrayed the crew multiple times.

One point is just a point, it doesn’t prove anything, but two points make a line and lines make a trend. Traitors are all about the straw hats.

Who knows who will be a straw hat in the end.

I truly do wonder sometimes if the only ones really reading one piece are me and Oda

[remote silo]

I keep getting pulled away so not made it all the way thru yet, but really liking your theory so far

Alright I officially love this

[limber nova]

Did you check my theory of the one piece treasure?

[remote silo]

Wait did I miss that? My bad lemme go see

[limber nova]

@remote silo

[pure tusk]

Awesome thanks for watching lmk when you watch the full thing hopefully i convinced you lol

[limber nova]

I’ll watch it

[pure tusk]

Interesting I do think the story is fundamentally built on Will and if you can believe it or dream it you can do it’s why papagu was able to go from a star fish to talking one

[remote silo]

I like it a lot! Especially considering Luffy was born on Dawn Island there.

It did make me think - what do you make of Ennies Lobby tho? The sun is always in the sky (reminds me of a biblical story where god held the sun in place so they could keep fighting their battle), it’s sitting over a gigantic water pit, and seems to have a strong connection to Joyboy and I feel like there’s something important there too

And do you think Long Ring Long Island could also be a candidate? Cause I think there’s a strong case for all three haha

[pure tusk]

Thanks I spent almost a year cooking it up so lmk your thoughts on it would greatly appreciate it also drop a like if you can 😁

[pure tusk]

Yea enies lobby has always been a mystery I originally thought that it was a sunflower that always glows no matter if it’s dark or not but it seems like kizaru fruit awakening but I could see a case being Uranus was used there and then was stopped maybe the motherflame was removed and why there’s a permanent source of light there

[remote silo]

Halfway mark break. I am fixated hard on egghead being a microcosm or miniature of the ancient city.

Here’s where I think you’re going and if so this might be my top theory (and no spoilers, I’ll find out in vid: The One Piece is the three detached segments of the ancient kingdom that can only fully function when it’s all together in one piece.

Alright, loving it, be back

[limber nova]

Maybe and I’m not sure never really thought about those, someone else on here said maybe another candidate could be loguetown. Also I expanded the theory a bit and perhaps the robots on the moon were invented by the D clan and when they go to the kingdom they might find a portal to the moon this is also when enel will make his return since he also probably knows about the void century by now if this theory is correct the robots on the moon might have records of the void century

[limber nova]

Sure I made a theory as well just tagged the other person in it if you want to read it too

[pure tusk]

Yea if you can tag me in that would be great and I’ll check it out when I get a chance

[remote silo]

How did I forget about the holes in Skypiea! Best arc btw

[limber nova]

@pure tusk

[remote silo]

Ridiculously good theory. I don’t think I really have any notes. That was an awesome delve into mythology too

And I was wrong but that’s okay

[limber nova]

Did you remember when the fishman lady predicted luffy destroying fishman island? Maybe that’s when he finds the one piece and is able to activate the ancient weapons then destroys the red line. Joyboy’s promise to the queen of fishman island in his time was to destroy it and let them come to the surface but he failed and used the poneglyph as a way to apologise to the people he failed. But once the red line is destroyed mariejois will also fall and create the all blue

[remote silo]

Now to share my modified theory that runs parallel to this, and that everyone universally hates:

a very long time ago, this civilization originally lived on the moon. But the world of One Piece is absolutely massive.

Perhaps they terraformed a gas giant to be their new home?

[limber nova]

He wanted skypeia elbaf, etc to unite and be more known to the public but I’m guessing imu was against that

[limber nova]

Yeah maybe the kingdom I mentioned in my theory is actually on the moon created by the D clan

Or at least a base on the moon to keep records safe in case their civilisation dies out mysteriously which they did

And would be smart because then imu wouldn’t know about it or can get to them

Only reason enel was able to survive is because his devil fruit allows him to survive in a vacuum

[remote silo]

This would explain the clouds when I keep trying to figure out what Oda means with the world being upside down. Cause I’m convinced he’s literal about that as well.

If it was a gas giant, it would have a super thick atmosphere followed by clouds below that layer (in a manner of speaking).

So perhaps the world of one piece had an ocean that acted as its thick atmosphere and they terraformed a physical world with the vast materials of the gas giant. Via uncountable slaves and robots most likely.

So a long time ago the Fishman could have lived in the sky where they always got to marvel at the sun. But the people on the planet wouldn’t be able to see the sun very well.

This could totally be a situation where people were all trying to do good, like maybe the fishmen wanted to share the sun with the world below them, but that created calamity and the job was only half done

[remote silo]

For all we know this could be a universe with DnD rules where you’re totally fine in space. In fact, you travel thru space on a boat in dungeons and dragons.

That’s why I think the straw hats will all have their dreams fulfilled when they go to space

Arlong’s crew said it would take a hundred years, probably way more, to draw a map of the world. But Nami could do it in no time from space

Also if the ocean was the atmosphere and they return it to that state, Sanji would be able to see the All Blue from space.

And as well, Enel’s dream was endless land. Perhaps that was the state of the world, endless land, no water beyond rain and streams. Just one big giant continent to run around in

This would make the entire ordeal a well intentioned but doomed endeavor. Fishmen wanted to share the sun and then absolute catastrophe occurred as a consequence.

Joyboy was probably planning to connect the peoples of the land with the native (potentially) Fishmen both in relations and geographically. In a place where they could still always see the sun. That’s what Joyboy was apologizing for. Not being able to complete that task.

[limber nova]

I’d like to think the all blue is when the red line is destroyed thus connecting each ocean, because that’s what the legend the all blue says it is and where it contains all the fish

[remote silo]

That’s much more likely.

Luffy, planet sized, pushes the red line back down to its original state as an ocean trench.

This also satisfies turning the world upside down, and creates a lot more land that puts fishmen and humans closer together

[limber nova]

Yeah I mentioned that that was joyboy’s mission to the fishman queen but he failed the promise then he created the poneglyphs as an apology

I’d reckon that was the same with skypeia and elbaf because he wanted them to be more open to the public since he was like luffy that he didn’t judge people or beings for the way they are

[remote silo]

God I need that Joyboy flashback already. Please Oda.

Also I did check, and planets with a thick water atmosphere are totally plausible. Just to make sure lol I was curious

[pure tusk]

Awesome thank you I spent so much time cooking that one 😭 so I’m glad that you enjoyed it I really think we are going to see it this arc elbaf is Skypeia 2.0 also know as the point of high west

[pure tusk]

So what’s interesting about this theory is that it really is simailr to what noland thought happen to the golden city so I think there is a good chance the one piece or ancient kingdom is down there but I also think that the emerald city is the ancient kingdom given how Vegapunk describes his island as the example I talk about it my theory as well. I do 100% Agree that in order to get to the one piece you need the nika fruit awakened which is why roger was too early

[remote silo]

Something to consider is that throughout the story people keep saying a DF user will never get the one piece. What makes that interesting tho is both Roger’s crew and then Shanks’ crew don’t have any DF users I’m pretty sure.

Chopper is gonna perform a miracle that overcomes whatever illness besets them as they get close to the one piece I’m thinking

[limber nova]

I forgot about the golden city to be honest do you think maybe that’s emerald city too?

[pure tusk]

no it seems like the emerald city and the golden city are sepreate treasures that are equivalent to the one piece i do think the emerald city is meant to parallel the golden city

[remote silo]

Oh I forgot to mention that your floating city theory also lets Nami and Sanji look down on the world from super high up. So Nami can do her map of the world from there

[limber nova]

I have a feeling like how vegapunk spoke to everyone in the world after he died, once they find the records of the void century do you guys think somehow they will get Nico robin to announce to everyone what they found out? And would be somewhere where imu can’t get them like in the void century kingdom. Which will start the war against imu and gorosei?

Either announce it or somehow use the denden mushis to show video projections of them all around the world

[remote silo]

I think the war starts before they get there. It’s gonna be Marineford on steroids with a race to the finish in the middle of the war is my guess.

[limber nova]

Yes but I believe even the navy will go against imu as well and work with the pirates to take them down

Sort of like garp and roger

[remote silo]

I’m anticipating a fractured marines rather than the unified force they currently are. I think some will fight for, some against, some will just be straight up pirates (already seeing this). SWORD seems like they may try to be a hurdle for Luffy, for instance. Not as clear cut in my mind

[limber nova]

Maybe the non corrupt ones but I’m thinking kizaru might actually fight against imu or akainu

[remote silo]

I mean we’ve been seeing a huge uptick in marines starting to question the nature of their justice since the timeskip

[limber nova]

Akainu knows there is an authority above the gorosei but he probably doesn’t know what happened in the void century and what imu did and once it’s known to the world I think he would try to question his whole life same with other admirals

[remote silo]

I can’t agree with you on that one. Akainu is a true believer. He’s going down with the ship

All the admirals know that their bosses are lovecraftian horrors. I’d say someone like Smoker is still in the dark tho

[limber nova]

I still don’t know if Akainu will either go against imu or just won’t care

[pure tusk]

I think the only way Akainu breaks away is if he relazes the government is no longer protecting civilians and their plan is too genocide the world. Akainu was fine with killing an island for the sake of justice but the whole world would be the breaking point I don’t think he will make a turn till the wg is on the cusp of defeat

[remote silo]

It probably comes down to Imu isn’t the final boss, and we may see some strange bedfellows coming up, including Akainu who knows!

[remote silo]

He blows up civ ships “just in case”. I don’t see it. He’s a genocidal maniac. That said there are definitely tons of reasons for why he might break away, but I’d be surprised

[limber nova]

Maybe akainu’s homeland was genocided by pirates and that’s why he’s the way he is and yeah would make sense for him to go against everything once it puts millions of innocent civilian lives at stake

[remote silo]

What’s innocent from our perspective may not line up with his definition tho. He’s shown to be more than willing to sacrifice lives at the alter of the WG so long as it’s for the greater good

[limber nova]

But again still on the fence if he cares or not

If imu wants him to genocide most of the world because they learned about the void century

That’s what he did on Ohara with that ship you said

[remote silo]

He’s destined to be a broken old man I think, when he’s finally able to look back and realize the horrors he contributed to. Once justice is realigned and he sees that they haven’t been any kind of justice at all.

As a whole my guess is a lot of the marines force will be trying to save civs all over the world similar to how the soldiers in Skypiea helped the citizens evacuate

[limber nova]

Maybe at first akainu is against it and then the navy sees how corrupt he is and luffy helps defeat akainu, could see that coming

[remote silo]

I’m very interested to see how TS Luffy will react when he sees him. Pre TS was hotheaded and charge without thinking. Perhaps it won’t go the way we think it will when they finally meet again.

But only after they fight first please

[limber nova]

If luffy can defeat kaido and hold kizaru and one of the gorosei like it’s nothing, akainu has no chance

[remote silo]

Yeah but they have a blood feud with each other. And I don’t think he’s such a pushover. One of Luffy’s weaknesses is heat

[limber nova]

Especially after luffy eats the mother flame

[limber nova]

True but do you think it’ll do damage to his sun god nika form? He did tank blasts from kaido

[pure tusk]

It would be either a soft betrayal similar to kizaru or aokiji but I could see a heel turn but I don’t think that will happen for awhile because I think oda wants the wg full force marines and all

[remote silo]

Once he’s at full power? Absolutely not. Current gear 5? He wins but he’s taking some serious damage. Buggy is the only person who has damaged the straw hat.

Akainu is tied with Luffy on the number of scars he’s gained. Stuff like that usually matters with Oda

[limber nova]

Yep still got a feeling a lot of the heavy hitters in one piece admirals and pirates included to defeat gorosei and imu

But somehow the void century has to leak to the public before that happens and leak imu and the gorosei

[remote silo]

You know as soon as Big Bird gets a whiff of this the whole world will know. But also people may see GrowthStonk’s floating city in the sky. Luffy can part clouds, after all

[limber nova]

You know what would be insane? If akainu and luffy teamed up to stop blackbeard and his crew. I don’t see that happening though but something like garp and roger teaming up will definitely happen

Oda loves to repeat history and foreshadow

[remote silo]

Ye that’s what I meant earlier by strange bedfellows

[limber nova]

Like once Blackbeard eats his third devil fruit maybe gear 5 won’t be enough to stop him depending if it’s a fruit like sun god nika

[remote silo]

Also this generation’s Garp is Smoker

[limber nova]

True maybe aokiji will betray Blackbeard too

[pure tusk]

Oh yea I forgot one thing that was left out of the video was that the colors that appears for Uranus looks identical to the missing part of Jaya. It’s why I’m really sure the wg will try to Nuke the island when the giants don’t comply and Imu is repelled . They also now have the motheflame

[pure tusk]

I think that won’t happen till the very end because I think aokiji will fight against the strawhats

[remote silo]

BB’s crew could definitely be his downfall. Also if you want a really wild thought - what if BB doesn’t plan to stop at 3? He starts gobbling up DF users to gain more and more consolidation of power, similar to what Moria did to beef up with his shadows.

We all assume he can eat three cause of all the threes in his character design, but we technically don’t know if that’s his limit

(I say gobble up btw cause I’m like 80% sure he ate Whitebeard’s heart to capture his soul before it could leave)

[limber nova]

Do you think aokiji will join the revolutionary army or spy on Blackbeard for them?

[limber nova]

Possibly, but which fruit do you think he will eat next?

[pure tusk]

It would be interesting if he was tied to the revs. I just want Aokiji to fight sanji in the final fight because fire vs ice and then he was also the one who capture pudding it would be poetic

[remote silo]

It’s probably a fruit someone has already eaten. Maybe Loki? He’d have to pull another Marineford for something that absurd tho

[limber nova]

True do you think maybe he’s trying to find big mom and kaido’s fruit? If they really died

Or maybe he wants marco’s fruit

[remote silo]

Wano is closed off so I doubt it. BB’s a coward who follows the path of least resistance, and taking on Wano is probably not something he wants to do

[limber nova]

Yeah hard to predict which his next target

[remote silo]

He plays the odds and goes where he thinks Luffy will show up. Luffy’s fruit is his white whale

[limber nova]

Would be crazy if he kills and takes akainu’s fruit but like you said he is a coward I doubt he will try to start a war with the most powerful admiral

[remote silo]

He’ll only be brave once he hits his anti-gear 5 form. Anti as in the mirror of

[limber nova]

Yeah he has no durability lol

Zoro would be enough to kill him if he can land a hit. He is probably looking for a devil fruit to enhance his durability

[remote silo]

I like the theory that he’s a logia but he’s constantly bathing in the counter to his logia type: sunlight

It’s like if Crocodile tried to take over a rainforest instead of a desert. He’d also have shit durability in that environment

So his plan is to block out the sun, or perhaps take advantage of a once every 800 years solar eclipse, which would make him go from fragile to unbeatable

Oh and Brook could solo BB. He could just put him to sleep. Instakill

[limber nova]

But Blackbeard has never slept due to his dna

[remote silo]

If they can’t be put to sleep then how is there a rumor that they’ll die if they sleep?

How would anyone even know that?

[dreamy hull]

we not know if the no sleep part is dna, sheerwill, trauma or something else
Multiple dfs seems more likely caused by the weird body

[dreamy hull]

he kinda had haki but still got severely damaged even in Impel down depths by both Luffy and Magellan

[limber nova]

I thought he comes from a special lineage like buccaneers not buccaneers but not a normal lineage or race

[dreamy hull]

the special lineage is him being of the Davy family

[limber nova]

Before that was released I thought he was like Cerberus lol and that’s why he couldn’t

[remote silo]

He also states he has to take every blow, which is what makes his logia type abnormal. Luffy hit him hard with no Haki, cause he’s always physical in sunlight.

Luffy has had to work around logia immunities many times by this point in the story so it really stands out how differently he’s behaving from other logia’s.

It could also be a Nika fruit situation where it’s not what he thinks it is

Personally I think BB represents a dead, collapsed star. A black hole. Something that you will constantly have to feed, sorta like collecting tribute from world citizens.

Luffy represents creation, life, the sun. With unlimited power, he makes wishes come true and can give everyone what they want and dream about. Post scarcity essentially for an advanced civ

Well either that, or Luffy is just Santa Claus

[white cedar]

The part where u mentioned eating the heart

Made me think of big mom eating the old lady and acquiring her DF, the soul thing, thats my best guess at how BB steals DF, and im assuming big mom never actually realized that is how it is done, only by accident

[limber nova]

The admiral I always found interesting was sengoku

Was he just as corrupt as akainu? Or more like garp

[limber nova]

I saw a video talking about the montblanc family and they said that the gorosei deliberately tried to kill off every member of the family

[crude hound]

I don't think Sengoku is corrupt nor is akainu.

Well Sengoku was always pressured to maintain face for marines and take hard calls. Like he was very serious unlike Garp who had laid back attitude when it came to optics of World Government and Marines.
Like we see Sengoku chill like Garp does after his role of fleet admiral was given to Akainu.

Acc to me Akainu sense of justice is way different than other admirals. He believes brute force can bring justice to world . He is strict about rules more than Sengoku and doesn't believe that pirates could be good or morally correct.
Akainu either doesn't know the truth about Gorosei and Imu and celestial dragons or is willing to be their bitch for society to function in order.

[limber nova]

I wonder what the gorosei thinks of garp after knowing that dragon is his son I wonder why they still keep him as vice admiral

Or is it not known they are related?

[dreamy hull]

because better having him there on a long loose leash than having him as a pirate or a revolutionary and having to fight him too

[prime bison]

Because garp is marine dog lile kizaru and they know his loyalty to navy
Like they took kizaru to egghead knowing kizaru really is good friend with vegapunk but still he is loyal to navy

[drifting dragon]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Eiichiro_Oda_sign.svg

see even his sign has that 'spiral'

[radiant copper]

I think Crocodile is Luffy's Mother

[sinful tundra]

es la mejor teoría de todas

[remote silo]

Okay, hopefully it’s okay to ask: What is everyone’s favorite Roger’s ship egg theories?

[solid jasper]

actually..I get why its highly likely that crocodile used to be a woman, but why luffy's mom?

[remote silo]

It’s a very popular old fan theory/meme. I don’t actually know the details beyond that tho

[drifting dragon]

this....

lmao yall need to see what ive replied to

[cosmic torrent]

not an actual theory just a meme

[radiant copper]

Mostly because of the time in Marineford when Luffy goes to save Ace, the executioners try to slice Luffy but out of no where Crocodile pops up at eliminates the executioners

[solid jasper]

Isn't that just croc not wanting to owe luffy anything? Since luffy saved him from prison

[cosmic torrent]

this

[remote silo]

Thanks I wasn’t sure if there was ever a point it was taken seriously or not lol

[wild vector]

Crocodile also helped Luffy escape from prison. Without him they would have been stuck behind a massive door.

I took it as crocodile gained respect for Luffy.

[cobalt frigate]

according to croco they are even because he helped them reach marine ford

[ripe pecan]

Also bcs he has tm public favour as he is "the hero of the marines"

I think akainu will have the best backstory in all of op

[chrome badger]

I mean we saw the greatest Pirate crew ever roll up on the marines and they thought they were doomed until Garp showed up.

[cosmic torrent]

Interesting point to have in mind, I wonder why the title they gave to Garp is hero of the marines. I wonder if during God Vallery the Knights of God got the Celestial Dragons and members of the world goverment and abandoned the Marines in God Valley (who we know were new recruits or low ranked Marines (well most of them) which meant they were like we already saw, being stomped by all the pirates and the a rampaging Rocks. Garp and Roger "stop" Rocks and saves the marines in there. Is why they gave him the title "Hero of the Marines" not the "Hero of the world government" he saved the abandoned Marines in God Valley after the celestial dragons and the knights of god abandoned them.

[ripe pecan]

Yes but we also have to keep in mind that god valley was told to us by sengoku who wasn really there and he said garp dosent like to talk abt it which means sengoku himself dosent know the full story and also world govt covered up a lot of shit

[cosmic torrent]

I mean Sengoku could be saying the truth..... partial truth. Garp gained the title in God Valley, and he does not like to talk about it. Because it that case Garp would have to admit the WG can abandon the Marines at any time when things go wrong. Garp probably knows that if truth goes out most of marines would abandon the WG

[ripe pecan]

This theory could be true, but i think real reason was because him and roger prolly realised they were fighting for the wrong side at the end and that rocks was acctually a good guy, i think they realised this when rocks was near death or sm shit, nd i also think rocks put roger on the path to finding laugh tale since we know he committed multiple taboos which prolly also included research abt void century since he knew abt imus existence and also oda confirmed blackbeards hobby is architecture and studying history (or smn like this m not sure exact)

[limber nova]

Was rocks powerful enough to defeat the holy knights and gorosei?

[true tree]

I still feel like Rocks getting Domi Reversi'd is what makes most sense. Roger understood that the WG is a far more existential threat than he assumed, Garp knows the WG is fucked up (and promptly did nothing, ya know?) and gives a reason that makes sense for why they teamed up against someone who has been portrayed by Oda as not-that-bad. Considering we left Elbaf just after peeps got Domi Reversi'd it'd make sense to bring it back at the end of the flashback

[cosmic torrent]

I think it could be that. Doing the wrong thing for the right reasons: Stopping Rocks was necessary if he goes off the rails and begins massacring everyone (the other flashback already showed Roger trying to calm down Rocks). If Rocks saw his family died (I still think Rocks sees his wife die while holding Teach and he things both of them are dead not realizing Teach survived) and goes insane killing everyone around friend or foe trying to reach Shanks and Shamrock (while Dragon is protecting them) Garp and Rogers have to stop him from killing everyone around and worse killing two innocent babies. They had to stop Rocks because it was at the moment the wrong thing to do (killing Rocks) but it was for the right reason.

[ripe pecan]

Hmmmm actually a really good theory

[cosmic torrent]

Even more Sengoku only knows what Garp told him: Rocks was gonna do something unforgivable (killing two recently born children) and he had to stop him. So Sengoku all he knows about the context is Rocks was willing to kill children.

[wild vector]

Anyone think there could be a support branch on conquerors haki, like an ability to rally someone's will.

[limber nova]

Could garp have started sword after what he saw at god valley?

[pure tusk]

Probably not because we already have a devilfruit that does it with bello Betty fruit

[wild vector]

That kind of rationale doesn't prove one way or another though.

This is what makes me wonder. If they can make people faint, why can't they make people believe.

[pure tusk]

I mean it’s subjective one way or another so my rationale is just as valid as yours I just don’t think oda would add another power to a power system when it’s already being used elsewhere. Also I think this isn’t necessarily haki but just plays into the idea that believing in other people and having faith can make them achieve the impossible

Papgu is an example of this idea playing out where with enough belief you can do anything

This ties back to color hypnosis as well where miss goldenweek was able to create things with purely belief as well

[wild vector]

I have a theory about the domi reversi and why Imu wanted moria dead.

Brook tells us the shadow contains a piece of the soul. It is forced to follow the "master" all of its life.

When we see Luffys shadow taken out, it has question makes indicating it's sentience. And moria as a shadow man has full control over his shadow. It's called the doppelman and it can act on its own but has to obey moria.

So what if Imu is capable of putting the shadow soul/personality into control of the body.

Since the shadow is in the world of light and the "real body" is in the floor, it could explain their psuedo immortality. Despite switching places, the shadow still has to copy the real body. So any damage it takes would revert to normal.

The shadow self would still hold some of the core values of the real self, but would be less restrained. This is indicated by Sanjis shadow still refusing to hurt women.

[pure tusk]

Even going far back as syrup village through the power of hypnosis which is just fake belief normal pirates were able to destroy entire cliffs

[wild vector]

The power of the ton and kilo fruit are the same.

The hollow hollow fruit can sap will similar to conquerors and ignite similar to haki.

There are clearly more branches to observation haki so why wouldn't there be for the others as well.

Life return is more than likely tied into observation haki. Which is pretty different from aura sensing and future sight.

As for your examples of belief, that is very different then the panel with buggy. He literally acknowledges the feeling and we have characters in the background with "raah raah" like rally.

Another slight example of this is arlong intimidating moo moo to not cower to Luffy. He didn't even force him he just said he was free to leave. And moo moo had a sudden change of mentality.

And the hypnosis stuff is heavily implied to be devil fruit. They didn't just believe it, they were actually hypnotized into being stronger.

Not to mention buggy has to reason to believe in Luffy. He hates him.

We won't know, but I really think there are more branches to conquerors.

My bet is weather manipulation (like summoning storm clouds or rain) and some kind of rallying

[pure tusk]

I think it would be fine if we got another devilfruit power similar to bello Betty that’s uncommon but to also make it a specific haki ability would be weird. Color Hypnosis isn’t a devilfruit ability oda would have gave her a fruit so we can’t assume it is. Also hypnosis is belief you are literally tricking into believing they can do something they can’t do which is similar to actual belief in the series but instead you need to have the will to do it.

[pure tusk]

I mean I could see oda having elmental haki I think we still have much more to learn about conq haki also along with VOAT

[wild vector]

Color hypnosis isn't. I was talking about Django.

I think color hypnosis ties into haki and auras. Don't know how but that's the feeling I get

[cunning holly]

Wonder if that idea can be used to hurt the god knights and such. Or would something related to like Brooks power be used. Where the soul itself is hurt

[wild vector]

I don't think fire production is elemental haki so much as life return to the highest degree. Using the heat from ones soul/life to create actual flames.

I'm calling it, I'm pretty sure the hollow fruit is pretty much the haki fruit. Its all about being in control of their spirit.

[cunning holly]

Conquers being able to control weather wouldn't be surprising considering its willing people to do things and it's been shown to split the sky's, what's to say that the opposite cant happen

[wild vector]

It would explain namis natural affinity for the weather and jinbei commenting on seeing her leak conquerors.

The panel where it rains on alabasta after Vivi cry's out in frustration makes me believe it to be the case as well.

[cunning holly]

That actually is a great pull, because vivi having conquers would make sense and on brand. Her lineage, her qualities of a king, which question. What are the qualities of a king?

[pure tusk]

I think Vivi is going to unlock Voice of all things a key thing was that no one was able to hear her voice

[wild vector]

I'm not sure. Its looking like they can attack the body the same way they attack a logias real body.

I'm betting moria will be the key. But I'm also thinking the real self may not be an ally of Imu. Ie the gunko we saw remembering brook could be like the real her gaining control.

The same way the original soul of the dead body briefly gained control over the shadows influence.

[wild vector]

We don't know enough about what the voice of all things really is to make any judgements yet.

But if momo has it, vivi may as well because of the Lily connection.

[cunning holly]

I see what you mean but, I just don't know if Moria is important because of his fruit or if he just had knowledge of how poneglyphs work cause he's a kozuki

[pure tusk]

I mean that logic can be applied to any speculation we have been talking about really. However there was some key clues with Vivi and her voice not reaching she also has been paralleled to shirahsohi who has something very akin to VOAT as well

[wild vector]

I don't think they would have made him a warlord if they had known about the lineage. Wano is also closed and they have no agents there. So it's doubtful they found out between aces imprisonment and the end of the war.

Given how much people seem to be oblivious of devil fruits till confirmed, I think they didn't know he was a shadow man till they saw him on the battlefield. Think about how many people don't even know why Luffy can stretch.

[cunning holly]

The voice of all things... makes me wonder of the idea of oppression. Cause Imu definitely is on the side of oppressor but what if the voices that no one else can hear is another idea of oppression. When voices aren't heard, action isn't taken. As such only those that truly can and would take a stand are the ones that truly are open to the voices of the oppressed. The ones searching for freedom are also the ones who know of those with none.

[pure tusk]

Momo likely does have VOAT I think Luffy does as well because so did roger and Odin

[cunning holly]

Oh momo definitely has it. The only reason why he was able to communicate with Zunnisa which isn't confirmed but just very likely

[wild vector]

I don't think her voice not reaching is some kinda of clue though.

[wild vector]

I think we are getting more clues to what it is. Luffy somehow had information about chopper without knowing how he got it. So voice of all things could be some kind of telepathy or thought transference.

[cunning holly]

I think it actually might be, the fact her voice didn't reach is showing how without eneoph intent and result, a voice can do so much. It's why the rain scene had that much more power and emotion. It's why when it did start raining it showed us where her voice reached

[pure tusk]

I think that is hint because oda makes it a point oda hammers on it also later on she appears to awaken an ability and call the rain she’s even drawn the same as shirashoshi awakening further linking the two

[cunning holly]

Yea, the voice of all things just feels like its there in our face, we just need to piece it together. Like what if because Momo was shown finally as a king and Luffy is the sun god, a liberator. Shirahoshi also being a god weapon. All things related to rulers or ideas that people look up too. The ones that need to be able to hear the voices of the ones calling out for them.

[wild vector]

The link there is just emotional distress.

[pure tusk]

Not necessarily I think your missing the point

[wild vector]

Nothing that happens in the rain scene is anything like voice of all things. It's not about anyone hearing her. The only direct effect there is the weather change which has more in common with conquerors than voat

[cunning holly]

Shirahoshi, vivi corelation is too strong for there not be anything. Makes me wonder if... now hear me out, a bit of a gum gum stretch if you will... vivi is or has a god power. Specifically, rain god. But the devil fruit is just... not with us at the moment or is with Lily

[cunning holly]

Conquerors and VOAT could 100% be closely related if not on the same boat of type of power.

[wild vector]

Sorry that's just wayyy too out there. I'm in the vivi devil fruit boat, but I believe she will get the snow fruit to help save Luffy from marijoa.

[cunning holly]

Its why it's a stretch, also who's to say that you NEED devil fruit to make powers happen

What if it's just the will that's needed and a devil fruit is as we know it, the dreams (i think) of people put into a form of fruit.

[pure tusk]

We do not know the full scope of VOAT so we can’t really make any judgement yet. We see Vivi call the rain with her voice ina similar way that shirashoshi calls the sea kings it’s why they are drawn the same and oda has tied these too together because they are really similar which leads me to believe they have a similar ability but use it in different ways. Also we don’t really know if conq haki used to control the weather so far we just see the impact form the clash that affects the sky not necessarily there haki controls the weather

[cunning holly]

I think we just need to go to the moon at this point cause like... there is definitely something fun going on up there, especially with Enel also being there

[wild vector]

Still too much what if without precedent. That's just a step away from fan fiction.

[cunning holly]

Its difficult not to close off such insane possibilities when we already know that Nika is able to do so much, so much that we don't even know about

[wild vector]

99% sure the lightning strike we heard happened on elbaph was enel. Not the one from Loki, the one that caused a fire.

I just don't know how he will tie into the story or who's side he will join. his story tie ins make me think the fleet so he meets vegapunk.

But I can't imagine a reason he would help Luffy.

[pure tusk]

I like that is really similar to what Vegapunk said

[wild vector]

But it's just not likely with how little we understand about fruits and why it hasn't happened in the story.

She's just got too easy of a way to get a devil fruit normally and I think the snow Queen is entirely possible to be foreshadowing.

If Luffy gets abducted, vivi will want an instant power up. Having her be the first and only strawhat logia would just be amazing.

Not to mention Luffy loves snow.

[orchid fulcrum]

my guess are, one piece is a space shuttle. laugh tale is the charging dock, the ppl are from the moon or at least the tenryubitoo (big hint on their costume since beginning) + imu is. roger laugh because the story is so absurd to them. it wont finish recharging the space ship until luffy's timeline and is the last hope/plan the d clan put to end it completely.
the world was assailed by the alien force, the native kept losing, but d clan always survive and bring the next battle on another era. why they need to go to the moon? because their enemy or at least imu's immortality are kept there. probably even if they defeat imu down here it can still revive and restart the whole fight without them reaching the moon. imu is probably a ghost type entity with ability to swap bodies after the host die.

[bold river]

sorry for topic change but this video reminds me of how the giants are divided about nika being good or evil https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-tNGcbysXE

theyre both talking about luffy and dont realize it

[cosmic torrent]

the space shuttle and charging dock i think is right but not for those reasons. I think the one piece is a ship to escape the world before is fully submerged underwater.

[remote silo]

I’ve always been trying to think about One Piece through the lens of Peter Pan, of which Joyboy/Nika is an analog.

What I can’t shake is how similar Moria’s shadow symbol is with Imu’s monster form. Obviously the shape could be interpreted as a gecko for the pun, but it could also be another lizard: mythical fire salamander.

Looking into it, there’s a lot of interesting interpretations for what they are — including one described as having a human face with a tall crown — but one commonality is: Fire

Maybe Imu (or the body Imu possesses) functioned like a tool needed to keep the mother flame going. But without the mother flame lit, it can’t restart it on its own.

And lastly: I think Imu could be either Joyboy or Nika’s shadow, who fled into an op op’d body, which is how it could still be alive even if Nika or Joyboy are dead - by being a shadow pretending to be a soul. After all, the very first thing we see Peter Pan doing is trying to capture his shadow

[limber nova]

Could saint Shepard in the gorosei be the king during the void century in skypeia and also be a double agent in the gorosei who’s waiting for nika?

[limber nova]

Only reason why I think he attacked luffy in egghead is he didn’t want his cover blown

[remote silo]

It has always stuck out that he’s by far the youngest looking of the gorosei. Would make sense if he was from the void century. The victors probably weren’t all old men and women at the time

[limber nova]

Yeah not sure if he is good or a bad guy still and betrayed skypeia or did this because he had observation haki and had no other choice

Maybe he had observation haki future prediction of luffy defeating imu and sacrificed himself in the gorosei and being imu’s pet until the time came

[mighty moon]

Plus imu can just kill them if they are traitor

[limber nova]

That’s why he can’t blow his cover and ones whatever imu says

[wild vector]

I think the burn scar man is bluejam.

We are getting closer to the end saga of the story so burn scar has to be introduced soon.

Bluejam is a character from ASL's past who is confirmed to have been burned. People will dismiss it as silly because he isn't strong, but I think oda left us a big clue.

Ace and sabos treasure they moved from the Forest was all gone. They told bluejam where to find it before ace and dadan fought him off.

After the fire ace went to look for it and it was gone. Why would oda go through the trouble of telling us that?

Bluejams ship could have been saved from flames after dragon blew fire away from the port. If it was saved before fully burning, it would be charred black.

So I think bluejam used that money to restart his pirate career. Eventually working his way to get some kind of whirlpool devil fruit.

I think bluejam somehow traded the road poneglyph to live in marijoa. That is probably the biggest stretch, but he already wanted to bargain to be an aristocrat.

If the next arc takes us to marijoa, Luffy could find the last poneglyph by happenstance and head to laughtale from there with Imu in tow.

[civic mesa]

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZNdpVP2Rg/

I hope that will happen

[remote silo]

went back to double check, and he's also the only gorosei who knows the true nature of the gum gum fruit as he reveals to all the others. Anyone from the Void Century would know, so perhaps this is the biggest indicator yet for your theory?

[limber nova]

Probably so, how would the other gorosei not know about the nika fruit

[remote silo]

Why I think his youthful appearance is notable is because the others are so old, it kind of suggests they were waiting in line of succession for immortal beings to die. Which we just saw happen

[brisk jay]

oh damn

[fringe plover]

Updated Hellfire Serpent Theory

[earnest glen]

Imu will be the final villain, not Blackbeard

I believe Wano arc is Oda's exercise for writing the final saga because the basic structure also mimic arcs that revolve around overthrowing oppression: Arlong Park and Dressrosa. In each case, the final villains (Arlong/Doffy/Kaido), who came from outside the country, execute a hero (Bellemere/"Riku"/Oden) and take over the country. The survivors who lost the battle then have the endure for a long amount of time (8 years/10 years/20 years) within the country to prepare for a liberation right at the time when Luffy arrives. Nami, Cocoyashi village, the Tontattas, citizens who turned into toys, the samurais and scabbards were all stockpiling money, weapons, and army while enduring abuses the regime put into them. The regime in turn, decide to rewrite history as benevolent ruler who hunt down rebellions and protect peace. The final battle then commence when rebellions almost failed and Luffy took over the responsibility to defeat the final villain. Of course this is just a rough estimate in wildly different arcs but you get the meaning.

.
Why is this important, because I believe the Void Century is written, and will be resolved in exactly the same way. Joy Boy lost to Imu, and his alliance scattered: some isolate themselves (Shandians, Wano), some were hunted down to near extinction or enslaved (Davy clan, buccaneers, Lunarians), some receive discrimination (Fishman Island, Elbaf), some were on the run (Emeth, Zunesha, Lily, Toki). They have to endure way longer time than the island arcs (800 years) and for way more generations. There are also traces of things they left behind: the poneglyphs, Devil Fruits (specifically Nika), ancient weapons, final island mystery, and perhaps the pirate culture. While the regime trying hard to rewrite history. And because in each arc, defeating the final villain, who caused the years long (or centuries long) suffering, is always the climax of the arc, I believe that Imu will definitely be the final villain. Luffy as Nika defeating Imu is the culmination of the centuries long suffering and give meaning to why the survivors endure.

.
Defeating Blackbeard as the last villain will not feel the same way, his threat is hypothetical and he's not connected to the rest of the world or its histories as Imu does. In the endurance front, for example, defeating Imu give the final meaning to the last stand of Ohara and Clover as a D to preserve centuries old knowledge that Imu's government tried to erase, which also has personal meaning for Robin. Blackbeard's is more personal, it will give resolution to story of Whitebeard, Ace, Shanks, Xebec, God Valley, but the rest of the world does not have history with the Davy clan for example.

[wild vector]

Caribou is on his way to tell Blackbeard about shirahoshi.

There's so much going on in the story I don't see the crew making recoating the ship and making a pit stop in fishman island.

They would either need to do it before laugh tale and turn around or do it after.

It doesn't make alot of sense.

So what if the Luffy madam Shirley sees in her vision is actually Catarina Devon.

It would require her fruit he able to copy image on sight, or for her to have copied him in egghead.

Oda gives an answer in sbs volume 110 that implies kizaru. In chapter 1103, he suddenly starts eating. Who on Earth responded to Luffy's please for "meat..."? Was it Sanji or Franky, who were nearby? Kizaru and Sentomaru were there too... It seems like nobody found out. In other words, their actions went unnoticed, like it was done at the "speed of light". Hmm. I don't know either. Speed of light...

However we see that Catarina Devon appears in page 1107. When she touches Saturn she comments on the power.

So she may have the invisibility fruits power in her arsenal.

I know that's more of a stretch, but she could have fed Luffy without being noticed due to the invisibility fruits powers, and then copied Luffy at the same time.

I don't see Luffy destroying fishman island. But I could see Blackbeard doing it. Using Luffys appearance is the perfect cover. They are his friends and shirahoshi might go right to the fake Luffy.

The only other possibility is bon clay. He already has Luffys image in his memory Bank and crocodile wants an ancient weapon. But I don't see where he would get the Intel.

[eternal meteor]

Idk if this has been said already but Queen is likely to be franky's father

Queen abandoned a child 26 years ago, Franky is 36 and was abandoned at 10

They both share interest for transhumanism and Franky uses 'bracchio tank' while Queen has bracchiosaurus df

[cyan tapir]

You don't think it's Weevil?

the son I mean

[limber nova]

Do you guys think joyboy lost to imu because he didn’t have a loyal crew like luffy? As far as we know we picture him being alone most of the time

And only had allies but didn’t fight or travel with him

[eternal meteor]

I think one of his allies betrayed him. Maybe Wano: they isolated themselves right after the great war, and there are a couple ties between Marine and that country: admirals inspired by IRL yakuza movies actors, and wano trees paintings in sengoku's office. Also, aren't they known for their marine granite smithing skills?

[raw scarab]

my view is that Imu or something related to Imu couldnt be destroyed at that time without jeopardizing the world (something worse.) Basically he died leaving the world in not a great place, but a place with some hope that could eventually create a path to free the world in hopefully a less total annihilation way.

[wild vector]

I'm guessing Imu was an ally of joyboy for some time, or at least perceived as one.

I'm guessing Imu convinced one of joyboys allys(like zunesha) to join his betrayal plot.

Since the 20 families don't know about the void century, I think Imu(in addition to other kings) made a plan to take joyboys utopia for themselves.

Maybe Imu convinced someone Lily was important enough to give eternal life, only to take her body(for the fruit) for himself.

I think oda is gonna do a whole Judas thing.

[wild vector]

Where is it mentioned queen abandoned a child?

Hmmm queen x gloriosa? Frankys got her chin design.

[terse garnet]

Blackbeard and Luffy might actually team up to defeat Imu
It could be something like ||Sasuke teaming up with Naruto to defeat Kaguya. However he wants to get rid of all Raikage and start over as the new ruler|| So Blackbeard might pull of the same move and first team up with Luffy to getting rid of the ruler and then establish himself as the new one… Thus showing us the true final showdown…
On the flip side, Luffy will need the One Piece in order to spark that massive war against the wg… So the fight between Luffy and Blackbeard Must happened before the Imu fight 🤨🧐

[raw scarab]

Luffy does not really care about Imu or the CDs actions. His purpose is to make himself and those who he sees as friends around him more free. He is in a way like BB.

[eternal meteor]

Queen's Vivre Card

"Around 36 years ago, Queen became a father, at the age of 20, and for a significant portion of his life from there onwards, he stayed with him. However, 10 years later, Queen abandoned the child and went on to continue on his journey as a pirate with Kaido."

And Franky's vivre card says he was abandoned by pirates

[fierce thorn]

I had a though and is the reason Brook always tries to improve his lean tied to his frostiness?
So he is always trying to make the angle more acute and believing doing so would be of us to Luffy. My thought is that the further he can lean the stronger his ice powers are. And the logic behind this is simple 32 Degrees is the freezing point of water. So when brook reaches a 32 degrees lean he will have mastered it. The more I think about it the more I believe this is why Brooks improves his lean.

[wild vector]

I've been thinking about what Bellamys role will be in the grand fleet.

He didn't officially join, but he's also got no crew.

He's technically retired and making a strawhat flag.

If he happens to be a navigator, he could join the barto club as their straight man. Ie the only one that doesn't go starry over the strawhats.

The barto club had a whole scene(as a gag) telling us they have no navigator. And as we learned early on in the series, you can't sail safely with no navigator.

[remote silo]

Love Bellamy, and also curious when and how he'll show back up. I think he currently represents Luffy's greatest defeat, so I think his moment is still ahead for him.

[wicked lava]

I think we’ll next see him in the final war, and that’s prob when the straw hat fleet will meet the straw hats to fight in the final war

[dusk mirage]

I think it’s plausible that Crocodile aka “Sir Crocodile” is a a formal Noble and also potentially a female. Maybe he had the noble stamp on his hand too and cut it off in defiance, with Ivankov helping him to changing identities so this could be hidden

[limber nova]

And would play in the luffy’s mom role

[dusk mirage]

What’s the connection with Luffy’s mom you’re thinking?

[limber nova]

It’s just a theory that has been happening for a long time now

[stoic stratus]

Thank you somebody with common sense unlike my friends irl who think BB would be final villian

[stoic stratus]

But imu wants to capture vivi 🤔

[dusk mirage]

But how does it tie to Crocodile or is this something seperate? I know the theory of Luffy’s mom being potentially a noble, but that’s separate discussion really, versus a tie

[raw scarab]

yeah, but Luffy doesnt know that. But you can say the capture of Vivi would spur Luffy to go to the redline.

[broken seal]

Wouldn’t the darkness man be the final obstacle for the Sun god? Blackbeard has had final villain written all over him for most of the series

[raw scarab]

BB being the final villain makes way too much sense.

[stoic stratus]

Both do tbh

[stoic stratus]

Good point 🤔

[broken seal]

That’s true, and Imu will be majorly important, just not the final final conflict. One of the themes of One Piece is the new succeeding the old. Imu has resisted this natural flow for a long time, but it’s inevitable that he will succumb as well.

Blackbeard will see to fulfill Rock’s promise of returning to the holy land, and he will usurp Imu’s throne, maybe even his powers. That’s what sets the stage for the final fight

[earnest glen]

sinking the sun (Imu) is also a good symbolism for sunset and dawn

[raw scarab]

I think Blackbeard stealing Imu's powers will in one way make blackbeard a worse threat, while at the same time leave a better window to be defeated by luffy and the gang as well.

[raw scarab]

theme wise, it makes sense that two Ds, one the dark side of the moon and one the light side of the moon clash in a final conflict. Perhaps their abilities cancelling each other out.

[remote silo]

Symbolically, BB represents a black hole, a collapsed star that never ends, like a dream lasting forever. Black holes only consume, and cannot be escaped once you’re inside (antithesis of Luffy)

Luffy represents a wildly active star. The type that will go supernova very young and in its wake create entirely new worlds.

Creation vs static existence. That’s how I see the two characters. They’re actually strange mirrors of each other as both seek liberation and do so via destruction, but in fundamentally opposite ways

[earnest glen]

I personally believe that the entire story of One Piece world is bigger than whatever personal ambitions that Blackbeard and Rocks have

Throughout the Grand Line epic we have seen, in almost every instance, the footprint of Void Century conflict. Alabasta and Water Seven happen because of Pluton and Poneglyph. Skypiea, Fishman Island, Zou, Wano and probably the current Elbaf happen because they're society that has endured post-Void Century era and has something to protect in order to support Nika's side in the upcoming war while invaders try to take away that chance from them. Ohara and Egghead happen to warn the future of upcoming war that's resulted from unfinished Void Century conflict. All the setup of Revolutionary Army is a dagger towards Celestial Dragon regime.

imo the entire story need conclusion beyond Blackbeard and symbolic "rivalry". If what it takes for Blackbeard to be more evil than Celestial Dragon is just to absorb their power, then there's no need for Imu setup at all. It could be him just taking down Gorosei, hijack the Revs and kill the Celestial Dragons (in which case, does the world object?). Imu is introduced around Reverie to give the Void Century evil a face, a figurehead to defeat because that's the One Piece arcs way to resolve its conflict. We've seen time and time again, with Arlong, Crocodile, Enel, CP9, Moria, Hody Jones, Caesar, Doflamingo, Big Mom, Kaido, and the recent Holy Knights, none of the villains has anything to do personally with Luffy and has everything to do with whatever's wrong with the people they oppress. In Imu's case, it's his 800 years long rule that span the entire world. Eight hundred years

[remote silo]

Definitely agree it's a story bigger than just BB. I think that's the case for everyone, and not just BB. Luffy plays a role but he's still just one piece of the puzzle, with much bigger machinations happening in the background he's completely unaware of. Shanks is a huge player in the world, but also only one piston in the engine. As powerful as Garp is, he often has to watch history unfold passively in front of him.

No one is truly the center of the universe in OP. Everyone involved has different motivations and ambitions. It's honestly about as realistic as you can get for this type of story when it comes to geopolitics.

I'm curious what Oda plans to do with the CDs btw. He has made strides to show that CDs are capable of change, and of recognizing the pain they bring to the world. We know that just like with anyone, just like with Sa D. Bo, people are capable of change. And CDs have been kept in the dark about history like the rest of the world.

That said, they're also slave owners. How in the world is Oda gonna tie this up given that reality. If his plan includes their liberation as well, Oda's gonna be walking a tightrope to pull that one off

[fast tulip]

I always wondered what the meaning of the strawhat is, and where roger got his from. Also, is there any chance that the One Piece treasure on laugh tale is also connected to or resembles the shape of the straw hat, whether it is flipped upside down or not

[remote silo]

one could argue the straw hat looks like a UFO

But also it connects well to people who worship a sun god. Gives you some shade from all the light

[stoic stratus]

As this point let's wait for oda to cook lol 😆

[wet comet]

I have a theory on how to defeat the god knights and gorosei permanently. Simply find their abyss mark on their body cut it with Haoshoku haki and they lose their regeneration powers

I remembered that bath scene between gaban and shanks and saw a tattoo on his left arm. It looked like the symbol of the god knights.

[glad hearth]

That’s honestly such a great theory ( we better hope gunkos mark is on her legs cause her upper half got blown up)

[tepid knoll]

Did anyone else notice luffy being the only one to sense chopper coming down in I believe 1150 or 51. The others ask luffy how he was able to sense chopper. I have a feeling that it’s the voice of all things and luffys next power up will be to do with the voice of all things. Kind of like an advanced observation haki that only people that can hear the voice of all things can access.

[hidden ridge]

Brook died 38 years ago
God valley incident happened 38 years ago

Although he says he was searching for his body for 50 years
I doubt it to be real

Brook was the leader of the battle convoy of a kingdom in West blue

God valley was in west blue

Most probably when the island was completely burnt to ash brook ate the devil fruit and his body also become bones
Gunko was a royal from godvalley

[tepid knoll]

“Brook died 38 years ago” 💔

[trail urchin]

A private discord vc type shi 😭?

[remote silo]

This is why Kid’s crew had to go. They knew too much!

[remote silo]

oh I totally forgot till just now: The Red Line looks like the band that goes around the strawhat, as well

[solid jasper]

I'm rewatching one piece and I noticed something very weird...mihawk dodged don kriege. Like dodging marines, vista and shanks I could understand, but don kriege??? Maybe mihawk has some kind of condition that makes him unable to fight randomly? doesnt have to be a weakness, maybe he would loose control of himself if he fights cuz a demon would come out of him that sort of thing

[broken seal]

You can’t really power scale with east blue as a reference

[solid jasper]

Im not powerscaling
no one thinks mihawk is weaker than don kriege

[broken seal]

It’s in that vein. Comparing his fighting performance. More likely what we saw then was a failure of Oda predicting the scope of the story rather than there being a crazy reason

[solid jasper]

the only other explaination is bad writing, but I cant help but see a pattern of mihawk randomly avoiding battles that he could have won

[broken seal]

You’re not wrong. “Fraudhawk” exists for a reason. I really thinks it’s a lot more likely that reason is Oda’s inconsistency, though. We see it a lot especially looking at East Blue vs the later story.

He’s not perfect, and there have been retcons. Even “world’s strongest swordsman” is something Oda seems to be moving away from

[fast tulip]

That red band definitely has some kind of meaning, i’ve even seen someone say it could represent the Rio Poneglyh

[solid jasper]

we also see oda make up new stories to fix his early "mistakes" (if he didnt plan that from the start) for example shanks loosing his arm to the eel. oda fixed that with shanks' abyss tattoo. so its quite possible oda adds such a detail to mihawk's character to explain mihawk's wierd behaviours in the past

then we'd all be like, "wow such godly writing! he thought of that 1000 chapters ago?? "

[broken seal]

Nah I think we can all spot a retcon when he pulls one. Especially a more convoluted one like this. But he’s done it before, and it’s not necessarily a bad thing. Still, I don’t think is particularly needed in this case

[solid jasper]

do you think shanks abyss tatoo was a retcon?

[remote silo]

I like that theory as well!

[broken seal]

Yeah for sure. We know the arm wasn’t in his original plan. But again, not a bad thing. One of Oda’s key strengths is adaptability.

[remote silo]

The beginning of OP is so closely related to everything happening right now, I think there was always intent behind the lost arm. Might not have been fully fleshed out in terms of what we’re seeing rn but I think he was carefully crafting stuff in the very start

[solid jasper]

In my opinion, mihawk disspearing from don kriege is a larger plot hole than shanks loosing an arm to the eel. So it would not be surprising at all for me if oda comes up with a retcon that fixes that...tbh i think oda was already building the path to it when he wrote mihawk vs vista

[broken seal]

It’s a matter of fact that Oda’s first editor convinced him to add the arm part. We like to imagine he’s had this grand plan from the beginning, but we know from interviews and art book sketches and all kinds of sources that this is not true. He’s just good at keeping it (mostly) cohesive as the story has grown and grown

[solid jasper]

what do you think would be a logical explanation for mihawk to dodge all those fights if the don krige thing was planned?

I used to think that mihawk avoids fights to avoid the possibility of loosing, but after seeing don krige, it doesnt make sense anymore

[remote silo]

Oh, then I’m super wrong thank you for the correction

[remote silo]

This is what I get for going from the live action to the anime to the manga - I’m a fountain of misinfo on this type of subject

[solemn sable]

Stupid Theory No. 1:
Hell exists, it's underground, and it's cold.
I... don't really have any credible sources for that. I just thought it would be nice to see more of the idea that hell (more specifically, the "bad" part of the afterlife) is depicted as a frozen place, as it is in Buddhism, for example.
That, and because I originally thought it wasn't possible that after the destruction of the Lulusia Kingdom, the sea level would have risen a meter due to the aftereffects of the explosion. I thought there had to be some kind of underground ice deep within the planet that melted and subsequently rose to the surface... until I remembered that earthquakes, especially very strong ones, can actually raise sea levels... so fuck

[remote silo]

Imo there’s a lot of evidence the world is literally upside down. So if that’s true, that means everyone is currently living in hell. Which certainly tracks lol

For instance, if Vander Decken inherited this pirate crew name of the Flying Pirates, then I think there’s a strong possibility that there used to be sky pirates. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1360742239281877103/1420420780252201051/image.png?ex=68d55570&is=68d403f0&hm=bda7ba3a2ecfe9f7f7dc504057d492d67797305806f22713ad5d0daddcc7a7d6&

[earnest glen]

didn't he state that he was bored
he met Zoro, satisfied, then went back to Grand Line
(think of it as random hunting exercise)

[earnest glen]

tbh the continuous hole makes way less sense than rising sea level. At first I thought about ice too, but why the hole though

[solemn sable]

It's most likely that the "sea crater" isn't permanent, and it's simply so massive that it took time to be filled by seawater.
Ivy Mike, a nuclear bomb detonated by the Americans in the 1950s, completely wiped out the island of Elugelab, leaving a crater roughly two kilometers in diameter and tens of meters deep. I haven't seen how long it took for the crater to be filled by seawater, but considering the range of the fireball, it may have taken a considerable amount of time, perhaps hours. So, assuming the island where the Kingdom of Lulusia was located was much larger than Elugelab (which had to be at least 1 km at its largest point, according to my estimate), then the sea crater must have taken much longer to be completely flooded.

Even so, one could say that the rise in sea level does not make sense, on the contrary, it could even lower it, but as they detail that after the obliteration of the island a global mega-earthquake occurred, then the rise in sea level does have an explanation, since as I said before, strong earthquakes in real life do have that capacity.

[solemn sable]

Okay, I have another theory:
Mother Flame goes boom boom -> leaves a hole in the Earth's crust -> Deep Gods are not happy -> Deep Gods cause earthquakes everywhere because they are angry -> hole is filled so they won't be bothered

[earnest glen]

idk, judging from how the planet also have a permanent hole in Enies Lobby, it seems they're meant to be permanent

[solemn sable]

Hmm... I didn't remember.
Honestly, I feel like that raises more questions than answers, because then it means there are holes in the Earth's crust that possibly lead to a massive underground cavity. That, or the planet is hollow enough for water to continue to flow down without any apparent end.
But then it means the sea level has to be much lower. Either that, or there's something else filling the world of One Piece with water.

[rich quarry]

Bringing exact physics into One Piece seems difficult when the series absolutely has supernatural elements

[solemn sable]

I know One Piece is anything but about following the laws of physics (like virtually any work of fiction) but it still has to follow a certain logic or consistency, and obviously the water has to go somewhere

[wild vector]

I think these are hints choppers human fruit is far more valuable than we are being led to believe.

The low bounty is intentional so people don't bother thinking of chopper as more than a pet.

The human fruit likely contains the whole human species. Thus explaining why choppers fruit has so nary variable hybrids.

The doctors in drum were looking for mushrooms ,possibly the human fruit, to research it. Chopper and vegapunk may learn to make a miracle cure from studying the human fruits DNA cache.

If Sanji who has read the devil fruit encyclopedia considers him rare i think that's a hint.

The fact that he was separated and collared indicates it could have been for his fruit. None of roads other pets were collared.

And the fact foxy instantly recognized him as rare also is a big hint.

There's just no real reason for chopper to have a gag bounty. It's very much intentional the same way Franky being hidden likely is.

[compact herald]

I can't help but wonder every time I revisit the Wano arc as to what is actually on Laugh Tale and they the Roger pirates operated afterwards, I'll first say I'm not aware if anyone else knows or has stated a similar theory to what I have or my speculation but a lot of starts with the name of the final island itself, Laugh Tale , ergo a story, a chronicle maybe a history but not just a simple one, due to the nature of strictly everything said or done in part by Oden or Toki, first of all once Oden was coming back to Wano he already had a sense that something was "meant" to happen 20 years after his death same with leaving the will behind that Wanos borders had to be opened up at least 20 years later, Ashura Doji himself wondered why exactly did it have to take 20 years to fight back against Kaido and that he had no reason to doubt Oden and Toki for making that request, as for Toki we know she came from the past and although she said there's no way to go back to the past I can't help but think her unique DF power which allowed her to travel to the future can't be the only of it's kind or maybe it is since we so far have no knowledge of a time traveler going back to the past to change things, but either way I can't help but feel that it was rather curious choice by Toki to just settle in the present time with Oden just because she happened to fall in love with him although far be it an impossibility I just believe Toki must've had other considerations especially what she knows of One Piece's past, to make it a point I do believe what made the Roger pirates laugh so hard and Oden too was finding about about Joyboy and what he did and what he wanted or in essence his story which might mirror Luffy's hence why they could've found it so funny but ever since then Roger already knowing he wasn't going to survive to see what was to come wanted to leave behind a son in order for him to be the one

To Fulfill whatever prophecy or future knowledge all of them had found out about on Laugh Tale, somehow, someway they knew that something was gonna go down in present day OP that would either be the return of a Joyboy-esque figure to once again lead the world to some sort of change which Oden and Roger both wanted to prepare for in their own way or leave behind something to help or shape the future they seemed to KNOW was going to come to pass, so I have to believe based on all those actions and thoughts of theirs that what is on Laugh Tale is not a simple history of the ancient kingdom and the past joyboys adventures and story but along with it something that foretold the then future events of OP, not say that in itself IS the one piece, I remain convinced of the idea that the One Piece itself is idea of a free world or rather the world without the red line theory. And just as Toki had a power that allowed her to at least travel to the future who is to say there was no power that could at least foretell the future?

[solid jasper]

I mean he did say that but it sounds like excuses just like all his other "reasons" to not fight. that swing that created a smoke screen for his escape. could have easily cut don kriege in half.

I'm not saying mihawk is weaker than don kriege by any means, Im simply speculating that perhaps there's a reason why he avoided fights that he really shouldnt need to avoid

Its as if mihawk works on a time limit

maybe mihawk has something simular to kakaturi's donut time XD

but then, he could have still easily cut don kriege in half then continue with whatever tea time he has...

[remote silo]

So essentially, Chopper = Legion. I definitely agree there’s way more going on with his fruit than we have been led to believe, and your theory is very interesting. I subscribe to the idea that Chopper unknowingly ate another mythic fruit, and he’s actually eaten another god fruit like Luffy.

The idea of Chopper being an ark for humanity is very neat. Gonna think on it more

[remote silo]

Related to this, btw, is a friend’s theory I subscribe to: Sanji carries the missing humanity of his brothers within him. So he’s the most human on the crew, often completely overwhelmed by feelings, emotions, desires, etc.

[wild vector]

I absolutely hate the idea of choppers fruit being a mythical model of anything other than the human fruit.

The tontotta side effect form seals the idea that it's all humans.

[remote silo]

Him having one of the god df’s while getting the adorably lowest of bounties would be really fun

[solemn sable]

I feel like it would be rare not because it's a devil fruit from some deity, but because of the desire it's based on.
Devil Fruits apparently arise from human desire. Anyone want to be a bear? Boom, bear Zoan; anyone want to control vegetation? Boom, flora Paramecia. It would be odd for someone to want to be human, given that they're the most abundant species on the planet, and it obviously makes some sense that there are almost no aquatic-based Zoans (except Kaido, because he's an idiot), since their weakness is their own natural habitat.
I feel that, beyond being the Zoan of some god, the Hito Hito no Mi represents the innate desire for human survival, and that something can be human if original humanity disappears. So Chopper would be carrying the "human will."

[remote silo]

Considering all of that, how does it explain how weird his Zoan fruit is? He has more transformations than other Zoan types. It’s clearly a weird and under explored DF. Maybe it’s the human species rather than a god, but that still leaves a hanging question that, personally, I think a god df answers pretty emphatically.

Also who’s to say reindeer chopper didn’t want to be human?

And lastly, Chopper is always mistaken for a raccoon. There is a trickster god tanuki in Japan, known for being a shapeshifter. Luffy is also a trickster god so, it does line up from that angle.

[wild vector]

The god angle is just bad. It's already been done.

He has more transformations because his fruit has all human genetics. There's simply no other explanation for what we have been shown. A "god" fruit just doesn't apply.

Chopper is always mistaken for a racoon because no one ever thinks he's a reindeer let alone a human. The only person who's ever instantly recognized chopper for what he is is foxy.

Just examine his forms closer.

Arm point- has double biceps like there's a second joint hidden under it. Making this form a long arm reindeer hybrid.

Jump point- his leg as 2 clear joints. This looks a reindeer-long leg hybrid.

Heavy point- this one looks like a reindeer buccaneer hybrid. Hes top heavy just like Kuma.

Horn point- oni reindeer hybrid.

Guard point- mink reindeer hybrid.

Monster point- reindeer giant hybrid.

Brain point- reindeer and base human hybrid.

Baby geezer- tontotta reindeer hybrid.

And finally he turned guard point to the size of the mountains in elbaph. This could indicate he's able to mix in ancient giant DNA to make himself massive. That's the only explanation for a guard point as big as giants.

[remote silo]

I’m not saying I’m right, I’m usually not. Like most people, nail a theory every once in a while. So I’m not here to say my idea is right, I’m just saying there are other explanations from the text of the story itself.

It’s not much of a rebuttal tho if the counter is to insert one’s theory as absolute and correct.

So just like how you fervently disagree with me, I think your examples over complicate things, so there’s my rebuttal.

Something being “already done” in a story as a reason to shut down another possibility is also pretty incoherent. It’s extremely common for writers to introduce a concept that they are going to build on top of later on. And we know from the text there are more gods than just Nika. I fail to see how one trumps the other here; and I also would not be surprised if neither of us are correct once we get the full story on his fruit.

[remote silo]

An example of what I mean about setting things up that occur again later:

• during the Arlong park arc, we get to see how Luffy gets inspired by and comes up with new combat maneuvers
• when we see gear 2, we didn’t need to see his inspiration and working on this new ability, cause we already saw him doing that already; avoids story bloat and shows a trust in the audience
• the outcome for both situations is the same: Luffy developed a new tactic

[wild vector]

I don't think the text implies any other scenario. Certainly not some god model.

How do my examples over complicate things if that's what we see?

All of these races are "human". It makes more sense than human human model long leg or etc.

Already done as in literally using the same explanation, that the world government lied about the fruits name is just cheap writing.

Not to mention being a god fruit doesn't remotely explain all his forms. A tanauki shape shifting body parts doesn't seem likely.

As far as Luffy is concerned, the hints for him being a zoan showed up as a theory as early as dressrosa.

And the japanese text had hints about Luffy being filled with joy after he ate the fruit.

[remote silo]

Luffy being the sun god was hinted at from day one. He beats Arlong and reappears under blaring sun. When the underground in Alabasta is collapsing, sun rays pour in on Luffy like a spotlight after he punches Crocodile through the ceiling.

The sun motifs go back much earlier than this, too. So it was much much earlier than Dressrosa that Oda was giving us these clues that something really odd is up with Luffy’s fruit, but they’re really most noticeable after learning the nature of Luffy’s fruit

Oda then chose to introduce the multiple gods in Skypiea, a very significant arc when it comes to looking for the blueprints of one piece. Why bring up other gods if they’re not relevant to the story? Why would only one of the gods be a part of this epic when we know there’s three others out there. We already know a god DF is a thing, so it’s not even that far out of left field

Oh and to add onto your point about Luffy feeling joy after eating the fruit, you will also notice if you go back to romance Dawn how Luffy makes everyone smile. He’s always brought joy wherever he goes and Oda was smacking us in the face with all this foreshadowing

[wild vector]

I'm not saying god DF won't be relevant.

I'm saying there's no fruit explanation for choppers versatility that would make sense.

I've seen mythical type abominable snowman and that just doesn't make sense to me

[remote silo]

That's totally fair. And to be clear, even if I challenge your theory, I like your theories and how you think through things. I don't care who's right or wrong, I just enjoy the exercise of going thru literary theory and trying to piece together this puzzle.

As well, I'm pretty slow on the uptake for things. Like I was a bit sus of Luffy's DF ever since, at least, when he unleashed Red Roc. It made zero sense to me. I was convinced by Big Mom's arc that his fruit is absolutely not what it's been presented as; dude duplicated his arms multiple times while fighting a guy who can duplicate arms. So I'm probably way behind the curve on this topic as well

[wild vector]

The few hills I'm willing to die on:

Choppers fruit contains all human DNA hence why his bounty is stifiled.

Usopp used conquerors against perona and sugar subconsciously. As well as he will be acting captain before the end of the series.

Big mom didn't eat caramel.

[wild vector]

I didn't believe the Zoan theory at all lol. So that humbled me a bit

[remote silo]

Usopp using conq on sugar I like quite a lot

[remote silo]

Something that stood out to me, which I hope I'm remembering correctly, was during Impel Down. That's the first time we were introduced to Awakened Zoans, and they mention at one point that zoans typically recover from near-death. That helped explain Pell in-world for me; Zoans seem to be very, very hard to stay dead. So Oda even setup why Luffy could rise from the dead like Jesus like 600 chapters earlier, which is crazy

[stark nexus]

When was that?

[remote silo]

Let me see if I can dig it up really fast. Gimme a moment

[stark nexus]

Just @ me again when you do so I don’t lose it

[wild vector]

I'm pretty sure they just talk about their resilience.

I think Pell probably got a haki or 6 powers defense style saving.

Im very excited for more awakened Zoans lore.

I had posted a theory that all of awakened impeldown Zoans were herbivore or non aggressive animals.

From this I said that awakened probably meant the devil fruit was actually in control. So they choose submissive animal Zoans because they are easily to break into submission.

This theory was pretty much proven right with an sbs. So I think we will definitely get some Nika taking over moment.

Just like chopper has his human fruit taking over. A side note: choppers monster point take over should have been capable of speech and intelligence. If the dog fruit can think for itself, then surely a human fruits sentience could speak.

[remote silo]

I think there is another section where someone talks about the Awakened Zoans, but here's Croc giving an executive breakdown after they've beaten down the jailerbeasts again

[stark nexus]

Oh wow, I did not catch that when I saw it

The more I hear about certain details pointed out the less credible the “Gear 5 is an asspull” claim seems

[remote silo]

random aside but this reminded me of an early theory I had: There was something apocalyptic that caused people in the past to create arks (physicial, like the boat, and perhaps spiritual, thru DF preservation) to retain every species that lives/d on that world

[wild vector]

After 6-9 read throughs and hindsight you see the weave.

[stark nexus]

Yeah I’ve only gone once through besides reading 1088 again after I caught up to the anime during the break

[remote silo]

Oh it's anything but an asspull. Obviously this is anime so take from it what you will, but the first frame of the entire anime is this:

If you go back to Romance Dawn, you'll see the sun motif ALL OVER THE PLACE, and almost always linked to Luffy. Similarly, you often see Luffy linked to moon

Luffy's link to the moon could also explain why the ocean dances when Joyboy is around. The moon controls the tides after all

[wild vector]

Another interesting observation about the awakened jailerbeast is how their man beast form is drawn.

Lucci, Dalton, usopp2 hybrid forms all show a human drawn mouth with animals features.

The jailer beast are drawn more animal humans rather than human animals.

They are like animal heads with human limbs.

Which is like the opposite of monster point. He's got a animal head and human limbs.

[stark nexus]

I’m just a little interested in the Sun God and the moon being so linked

[remote silo]

Yeah, they're awakened but failed awakenings, since they lost all sense of self and permanently became beast-minded

[stark nexus]

Obviously the “light of the moon” is just reflected sunlight, but that tides theory takes it a bit further imo

[remote silo]

Luffy and Lucci both represent successful Zoan Awakenings, which are supposed to be super rare per Vegapunk. Rare enough that it didn't seem like he'd maybe even seen this type of awakening before with his own eyes

[wild vector]

I think the implication is the animal personality is in control and not the human origin.

In choppers case the human from the fruit was in control and not his reindeer self.

[stark nexus]

The Gorosei seem to be either awakened zoans or Imu’s power

[remote silo]

Everyone that Luffy fights levels up so massively. And Jimbei has fought Luffy twice 🤔

re: Gorosei, we've seen them wading in water without any hesitation or sense of weakening, so I think their power is derived entirely from Imu's pact powers

[wild vector]

When is this? I've been operating under the assumption of some kind of devil fruit granted by imu

[remote silo]

If you're asking about the water part, we saw that in Egghead. We've also seen what the pact does to Dorry and Brogy in Elbaf, which looks similar to this power. And the God Knights have the regen aspect (that we've seen so far) while also having their own devil fruits. So the regeneration and whatnot must be from Imu, since they all have very different df's

There's also an argument the god knights are immortal, too. Or at least Gunko seems to be

[wild vector]

Ahh I thought he was air walking or something. That would be crazy op if they don't have the weakness.

[remote silo]

Yup, I think they're supposed to be that OP. Good thing some of them like Saturn are idiots, or we'd be in real trouble

[remote silo]

same! I've assumed it's a link to the D. clan for the longest. There's definitely something significant happening there and I wanna find out if I can't figure it out, lol

[solemn sable]

I don't know why it reminded me of an HBO series (if I'm not mistaken) where a monster with human form appears, in its first appearance it is said that the monster cannot touch water, to which the protagonist attributes that it cannot approach bodies of water. However, at a later point, the protagonist is chased by that monster and she partially submerges herself in a river, thinking that she will be safe from that monster... Only for that same monster to start WALKING on water, since it cannot touch the water because it acts as a solid for it.
It would be interesting to see the Gorosei be something similar to that monster, they have no weakness to water because they are not even allowed to touch it

[wild vector]

I wouldn't say he's an idiot. The other elders are probably the same strength as he was.

The interesting thing here is it's likely another personality goes into control when Imu does the domi reversi.

From dorry and broggy we can clearly see they aren't themselves anymore.

The first thing Saturn thinks after Imu does his thing and takes out the power or whatever is "have I been..."

With the dorry and broggy switch to give us context, this could imply the Saturn personality that was in control wasn't the same Saturn in control before death.

This could tie into how gunko momentarily broke after recognizing brook before Imu took control.

[stark nexus]

I can’t wait for the true meaning of the D clan to be unveiled

[remote silo]

Exactly! Full agreement. I think just like with imperfect zoan awakenings, this version of DF-like powers changes their personality to its opposite, seemingly

But also Saturn is dumb in the sense of how arrogant he was. He thought he had the smartest man in the world under his thumb because he's just as intelligent. And this led to numerous catastrophies for the WG waiting to happen, that he accumulated over the past few centuries

[wild vector]

I don't think it's the devil fruit though. I think the addition of powers and the switch of personality are 2 different effects.

I'm still betting on it being thier shadow in control.

We have a few examples of shadows retaining the core values of their owner. As well as the original body being capable of taking back control.

I think Imu is literally reversing the shadow and the light parts of the body.

It's it's own personality that would normally not experience the light of day. In Sanji penguins case it even wrestled control of the personality from the corpses personality.

[wild vector]

He's just a pawn of Imu.

[remote silo]

I was convinced for a long time that Imu was Joyboy’s shadow who jumped into an op op’d body to survive. And I thought that the body he took was Lili’s (no way this is true)

[wild vector]

Hey shadow explains immortality and different personality as well as why Imu wanted moria dead coincidentally after his powers got shown off on the battlefield.

If that does happen to be, then moria could potentially directly control the 5 elders or switch back people.

I really just don't think Imu suddenly found out moria was kouzuki and wanted him dead. This wouldn't make sense with wano being a closed country.

[wild vector]

Also I'm in the Lily body boat.

Oda decided to show us the personality switch and then later tell us about immortality surgery. I think it's for a later plot device just like the eternal life turned out to be.

[remote silo]

I had not considered that Moria angle, I like it.

Something to add onto this, btw, is Moria uses a similar symbol with his power to Imu’s form (lizard shape)

Oh and the reason I changed my mind on Lily is because I think she’ll be at the One Piece when we arrive.

And lastly reason why I get hung up on the shadow theories is because Luffy is Peter Pan

[wild vector]

All these loose threads are fun to consider. I really can't wait for the flashback to just end.

[remote silo]

Flashback so good tho, too! And I think we’re about to learn sooo much (whichll create 20 more questions each)

[oblique bolt]

I believe Imu is a woman for three reasons:

-They're highly emotional, despite being demonic

-They took over Gunko, a female, instead of any of the male Holy Knights present

-The very first pirate captain Luffy ever defeated was Alvida, a woman. It would be some peak full-circle shit if his final boss fight was against a woman.

Honorable Mention: Luffy punched Vivi.

[cyan tapir]

that's like peak insane message I've read in this server no offense

[ocean scarab]

"They're highly emotional"

SAY NO MORE, THATS A WOMAN ALRIGHT

Imu == female confirmed

[remote silo]

Highly emotional? Oh we talking about Sanji rn?

[jaunty summit]

Idk why but I don’t really want imu to be a woman lol. Is that a hot take?

[fast tulip]

Luffy will really be called a woman beater if that’s the case😂

[remote silo]

It’s just weird I dunno why it matters.

Anyway Zoro is gonna become the worlds greatest swordsman as a woman!

[fast tulip]

Is the national treasure of Mariejois that Doflamingo was talking about potentially the Magic Book Imu was using in Elbaph?

He says that The Ope Ope No Mi is required, maybe the book can only be of full use if you are immortal

[remote silo]

I think it’s the book too.

And as for how the book works, my original guess has been that it’s the inverse of the soul tech that had produced DF’s. Since devil fruits preserve one’s spirit of will, that book likely eats/destroys souls in exchange for its power. That would make an immortal act like an endless battery for the book if so.

But lately, I think it is fueled in some way by the CD’s existence. Maybe it is a dream catcher, and the sacrifice of the original 20 royals was to offer over their dreams and ambitions not just for themselves but for their entire bloodlines. Essentially selling the future of their heirs for the power needed to win a war.

In either case my opinion is that the power that Imu wields needs some sort of constant tribute of something which it destroys or contains forever.

The souls of many of the D. clan could be trapped inside there, if you want to get even wilder. Anyway sorry yeah I love this particular topic

[cyan tapir]

Yes, why does it matter if Imu is a woman or man. Ya'll think about sex (as in gender) way too much.

[remote silo]

This is why Nami is always disrespected in people’s top straw hat rankings

[knotty widget]

I hate nami

[stray monolith]

I have an idea,

Kuma and Kizaru have both done the nika dance together

And every time they’re together they’ve subtly helped luffy, or not harmed him.

Kuma save on sabaody while kizaru honestly went easier on the straw hats than the supernovas

At marineford kizaru could have killed and sniped the key instead

At egghead kizaru fed luffy while nobody was looking.

I think by the end of the story we’ll see a flashback about Kizaru and his suspicions of luffy being joy boy

[remote silo]

I hope Kizaru splinters off a marine force to support Luffy at some point. I think Koby and co are gonna be the RA’s navy alliance, and as you said, Kizaru has done so much for the crew over the years so I’m coping on this idea now

[true tree]

I think Kizaru's definetly being written like he's gonna flip and in retrospect he's always gone easy on the straw hats, yes

[remote silo]

Similar to how the marines cheered for Luffy when he liberated them from Axehand Morgan, maybe Luffy will defeat Shakazuki to similar results “soon”

[broken seal]

I think we can take Kizaru’s outburst post Egghead as evidence he won’t flip. He couldn’t do the right thing even to save his friends. He’s sold his soul

[true tree]

To me everything reads like he's going to flip in the long run precisely because of everything he's gone through. Won't make him innocent, mind you, but drawing him doing the Nika dance and feeding Luffy while he's fighting him and his boss are not small things for Oda to depict him doing

[hoary hatch]

Theory: There has been fantheorizing about Dragon's Devil Fruit from the moment he was seen in the manga. But now that we know that he was the one who saved Shanks at God Valley and 99% certainty the one who hides him in the treasure chest, this makes me think that Dragon took whatever Devil Fruit was originally in the treasure chest. Others who got Devil Fruits from God Valley are Kuma, Ivankov and Kaido at least. If we add Dragon into this group, most of the treasure chests have been accounted for. (Though there is still a chance that Dragon doesn't actually have a Devil Fruit and he took something else from the chest. Something like valuables that helped him fund his rebel force early on.)

We will see in a chapter or two for sure.

[pliant wind]

I think Rocks was defeated by Roger and Garp because Imu took control of him during the battle, just like Imu did in the recent Elbaf chapters. That’s why Roger and Garp had to team up against him — they didn’t know what had actually happened. Rocks originally had good intentions and only wanted to protect his family right?

[remote silo]

Oh no, I need a refresher on his post egghead outburst, cause I was gonna say I think he’s completely impotent and knows it when he’s sharing the battlefield with the gorosei. I mean no one has ever been able to contend with them probably (that he’s seen) - save perhaps GV we’ll have to see - so if you’ve never seen these Lovecraftian monsters lose, I don’t think it’s irrational to feel like there’s no choice but to obey.

That doesn’t make him not a coward of course. He’s an obedient lapdog like Garp. But self preservation is a thing that isn’t unrealistic

[broken seal]

The thing is that the real heroes put their ideals over self preservation. Kizaru couldn’t do that, even if he clearly wanted to. That’s what makes him a compelling character, though

[plain tapir]

I have a theory about laugh tale and hear me out before judging :(, So I randomly stumbled upon this thought and I think this theory is so weird that it might acc work. So during the fight between kaido and luffy at the end we see that luffy''s true dream was about "food and how he wants his friends to eat as much as they want" now thinking about how roger went to laughtale and started laughing saying he was too early. Could laughtale be an island of just booze and food cause the only reason I can think of roger laughing is how absurd a treasure can be with just booze all over the island and what if the booze was still not ready and was being yk preserved which is why roger was laughing since he couldnt even have it and had to wait as he was early. Now ik im not onto somethere here but I do think booze and food might have some connection here since its a japanease tradition do have some deep connections with sharing sake and all that stuff and I am not that knowledgable about it but I think it might have something to do with my theory

One more thing is that I was watching this video of Ohara and he was saying how Kaido was the only ambition one who wanted to become Joyboy so yk he was doing everything that was related to joyboy to become joyboy such as using the attacks with the word "bagua" at the end since the bagua's are connected to Joyboy and this made me realise how much kaido used to drink and tbh I would not think that kaido would do anything that does not have a meaning towards joyboy so I do think that booze might have a bigger role when we look at the bigger picture then we think.

Its just a though guys I might not be onto something here but one thing I am pointing towards is that booze will have a some kind of role towards joyboy or laughtale

[wet yacht]

so i think i cooked: lemme explain
so there's this religion known as zoroastrianism. now hear me out
so the first 4 letters are zoro. it is a monotheist religion (meaning belief in one god). the name of the god is ahura mazda. as we know zoro has a form "ashura" so if you think about it then it makes sense. it could be a coincidence but still just check it out.

[boreal linden]

Taking control of a woman’s body is evidence that they’re a man actually

[lean shadow]

Okay,here is my theory.
ST.Maffey failed to get both kids for garling and thus faced consequences in the form of a cut arm that doesnt regenerate and potentially a cut across the face and she escapes.
She escapes with the slaves that escape aka ivankov,kuma,gini etc. and at one point in time she gets changed from a woman to a man and becomes crocodile.
That's why croc is missing a hand and they got the same coat.

[cosmic torrent]

I wonder if Garp was never a good person or Marine before God Valley, like he just wanted to fight pirates and did not care about people until Dragon has his Dadan moment here after God Valley or mid God Valley incident. Dragon leaving the Marines, makes him change to the "hero" that he is in the present (helping people but still kind of an ass) because his actions are partially what made Dragon leave the marines.

[versed sonnet]

have any one notice this holy knight who fires from mouth like Pacifista. Same one of the member of shanks crew with same tooths and fires laser from mouth like Pacifista.

[wild vector]

I'm 90% sure oda is hinting that ishcat will be usopps next upgrade.. theoretically he can mix the size of his devil fruit with his cat body to make himself fit on the ship.

I wouldn't be surprised if he was chewing(playfully) on usopp because he smells like pop greens.

[oblique bolt]

Why?

[remote silo]

100% agree. I don’t think even Kizaru himself would ever feel like a hero even if he did finally revolt to the rebellion. That’s why he’s a coward. Bravery is doing the right thing even when you understand the severity of its consequences

I just have a soft spot for him and want this

[remote silo]

Makes sense to give your ranger an animal companion, I hope this comes to pass.

Usopp has always had great relations with animals, too. Like with Karoo. Imposter Usopp was immediately caught cause he doesn’t care about animals, even

[wild vector]

Although usopps is my favorite, there's no bias here.

Momo being aged up was a theory with the color spread of Luffy riding a pink dragon being one of the hints.

This repeated color spread inclusion of a cat near usopp and the symbolic significance of a lion devil fruit just make me think this will be the case.

[cobalt frigate]

usopp will eat a zoan?

[wild vector]

Bro read. Companion. Pet. Loyal friend.

[cobalt frigate]

you didn't write any of these words. maybe you learn to write

[chrome python]

If Whitebeard ate the Uo Uo no Mi, Model: Seiryu, he could have awakened the Devil Fruit

[tidal nova]

So, I just had this thought. Does anybody else think Bellemere may have saved Nami and Nojiko from an island that was being hunted by Celestial Dragons. Every other Strawhat is tied to some top tier player in the one piece world somehow, so it would only make sense that somehow Nami is the princess of some kingdom the Celestial Dragons wiped out about 13-14 years ago.

[oblique bolt]

It's part of their brain chemistry, it's literal science. It's where the maternal instincts come from. You're gonna sit here and tell me no girl you've ever met has ever overreacted at something in your eyes? I'm not saying it as a diss, it's a fact of nature.

[oblique bolt]

This place must be pretty boring then, lmao

[remote silo]

Bruh… you need to touch grass and get more fem friends. That’s wild

[oblique bolt]

Are your female friends robots?

Are you so woke that you forgot about hormones?

Come on, let's argue biology, I'm down.

[cosmic torrent]

Considering Dragon says the babies were his chance to atone, if it comes to him and Shamrock fighting, he would hesitate to finish the fight or to take Shamrock down? because he could not save him?

[remote silo]

Kind of piggybacking off this: would his connection with Shanks be a similar family weak spot to Dragon that Luffy is? I know he’d look to the east towards Luffy, but now I’m curious if Shanks was also a kind of son figure to Dragon he had to worry about and keep a secret

[meager mango]

CHOPPER IS GOING TO DIE.. look at chopper at the crane game brook which is death is trying to get him and the craw behind brook have skull and bones also in the machine it mostly dead people

[mighty moon]

its oda he doesn't kill that often

[mighty moon]

Probably not, Think Dragon finds saving the twins as a sort of "win" at god valley more of goal then like a family

[remote silo]

That seems most likely, yeah. Plus he didn’t seem to interact again once the baby was tossed in the treasure chest

[wild vector]

"ishcat will be usopps next upgrade". Idk man maybe read. Idk how you took usopp would eat a Zoan from that.

[modest python]

kaido will turn green after the events of wano

[remote silo]

Green hair + Kaido = Greedo

[urban sedge]

Thought the same exact thing soon as I seen maffey
Also why crocodile was after white beard, wb causes him to lose a baby when he saved dragon

[calm sedge]

dragon used ivankovs power to impregnate himself and give birth to luffy

this is not a theory it is canon

[astral marten]

I can't find this anywhere but who is Luffy mother

[digital gulch]

What if the shanks mihawk flashback is a mariejois academy flashback of some sort. We know shanks returned to marie jois at one point, and there is a theory about mihawk having a connection to imu

[hoary hatch]

She would also have to be transformed into a regular human from AND lose her powers. I'm not 100% against your theory but the changes to St.Maffey for her to become Sir Crocodile are so numerous that some other connection is more plausible. Like Croc imitating her style for reasons unknown.

[agile lava]

I just had a thought, what if while running Dragon stumbles and falls and accidentally drops baby Shanks into one of the price chests. but he mixes them up and just grabs a random one, hoping it was the right one with Shanks in it, as the other chests are taken by Roger pirates. maybe that's where he got his DF from?

[hoary hatch]

I think it is more likely that Dragon hides the baby in the chest on purpose because he trusts the pirates to take him to safety but is not certain if he himself can escape the island.

[wild vector]

Sanjis hell memories are time he spent as a woman.

He spent his timeskip on new kama Island being chased and put into a dress.

So I think the natural extension to this is eventually fighting Iva. Let's just say iva turned himself into his female form and Sanji couldn't hurt her.

The new kama are freely capable to switching back and forth. This is shown to us with inazuma and then directly implied with iva telling us what new kama are.

If iva was willing to do the injection to an unwilling person, I don't think he would have any problems doing it to sanji.

[ocean scarab]

No. Touch grass.

[lean shadow]

I mean I dont think its character based but more so ivankov based.
Like I imagine his awakening would allow people to change or be changed in an area or maybe be touch based.
He has to consciously inject people in normal df use,but when he awakens its an area effect or touch based effect.
And just to touch up on the st maffey theory.
Feels like there is a connection between inazuma and her but it depends a lot on the color of her hair.
If its orange then there is a connection,if its not its a weak link and could potentially just mean inazuma was her underling or smth.
Maybe both escaped alongside ivankov and kuma and eventually maffey left to be croc and inazuma remained to live a more happier life with ivankov or potentially dragon.
I do wonder if oda will show us the beginning of revolutionarys.
Right then most of them were kids while dragon was an adult.
So maybe he was babysitting for years and gathering info from wg and then eventually left when they were big enough and started revos.

[lean shadow]

yeah,the horns are the one feature that I dont know how it would dissapear unless they are there just cuz of imu.
Btw she is like croc and doffy combined

[brisk jay]

its not a theory but a notice of an important recurrent symbol in One Piece

We all know that emojis are japanese (Emo = emotion; Ji = character), right?
but the colours are kinda the inverse of Western:
⭕ ❎

the Circle:
○　まる /Maru/
OK; correct; yes; supported; available (like ✔; note that the check mark usually means "wrong" in Japanese examinations)
masked/censored character (like * in English used to mask characters in certain words; see this)
rival horse; second likely to win (horse race; favorite horse is marked with ◎)
win; victory; 白星 / SHirahoshi/ (when used as opposed to 黒星 /Kurohoshi/ = ● = lose)
×　ばつ /Batsu/、ぺけ /Peke/、ばってん/Batten/;
OBS!!: in /Batsu, the Tsu double the next consonant, so pay attention, for example: Batsu + KU = BAKKU
NG; wrong; no; unsupported; unavailable
masked/censored character (mainly for sexual reasons; cf: ちょめちょめ /chomecho/)
multiplication (math)
lose (game)
dead; extinct; obsolete (word, species, person; like † in English)
used to denote romantic relationships, especially in yaoi fandom (like "slash" / in English)
finished (calendar, event)

[brisk jay]

so you already know where we do find the circles in X's in OP, i don' need to say

[opal tusk]

Dragon seems to be about as weak as a regular soldier marine at God Valley. He is using his rifle still. I wonder if he got some secret training after that, maybe Garp or some other powerful figure helped secretly? Idk.

It's also plausible he just got the fruit, and the power boost gave him the safety net to build a network and train safely? Maybe he is still washed? idk

[somber sorrel]

The origins of the One Piece world can be traced back to a figure known as Nika, sometimes called the Sun God of Liberation. According to this theory, Nika was born from the collective desire of oppressed humans who were enslaved by a powerful creature, summoned and controlled by rulers using dark rituals. Nika fought to free humanity, but while he could resist and weaken the creature, he could not fully eradicate it. His power and will, however, continued to exist as a force that could influence the world across centuries.

Centuries later, a man known as Joy Boy appears, believed to have been imbued with Nika’s power. Joy Boy traveled the world, spreading joy and freedom, and eventually invited the moon people to Earth to help establish a Great Kingdom—a society where humans and other races could live without fear. It is theorized that Joy Boy adopted the “D.” in his name intentionally: to honor and not discriminate against the moon people, he symbolically added a “half-moon” into his name, representing the union of humans and moon people, making him a “half-moon” person. This reflected his desire for equality and unity among all races.

However, this unprecedented freedom created a problem. People in the Great Kingdom were no longer bound by strict rules or authority, which led to chaos and disorder in some areas. Crimes increased, and the rigid social hierarchies the world was used to were challenged. The 20 kingdoms saw this as a threat—not because Joy Boy’s kingdom was evil, but because such unchecked freedom risked destabilizing the world order. Even with the presence of moon people and the power of Joy Boy, the 20 kingdoms could not directly suppress the Great Kingdom initially because of its strength and allies.

Among the 20 kingdoms, Nerona Imu rose as the cruelest and most ambitious ruler. Imu encountered a man sentenced to death for performing forbidden dark rituals. This man promised Imu that he could write a book containing all the knowledge of the world in a single night. When he failed, he performed a ritual summoning the primordial devil that had fought Nika, who assisted him in completing the book. Upon receiving it, Imu gained unprecedented knowledge and power, transforming into a dark, terrifying being resembling the creature that had once fought Nika. With this power, he corrupted or controlled Joy Boy’s allies and ensured the 20 kingdoms were strong enough to oppose the Great Kingdom.

Joy Boy, left alone, battled Imu and his forces for years, but ultimately he fell. Before dying, he rose one last time toward the sun, proclaiming that even if he did not return, someone would carry on his will, ensuring that freedom and unity would eventually prevail. His body fell, but his promise endured, planting a seed of hope for the future.

During this period, Nefertari D. Lili, a member of one of the kingdoms who secretly allied with the moon people, worked to preserve Joy Boy’s legacy. She collaborated with hidden Kozuki descendants to carve poneglyphs recording his legacy and hid the most precious treasure Joy Boy had given her. When Imu discovered her actions, he executed her and used the Ancient Weapons to sink half the world, intending to erase any trace of Joy Boy’s legacy. Despite this, the poneglyphs and treasure survived in secret.

Fearing another Joy Boy, Imu withdrew into his castle, creating five powerful demons to govern the world in his stead. He also attempted to recreate the destructive power of the Ancient Weapons with thousands of scientists but failed. The world then entered the Void Century, a period in which Joy Boy’s legacy seemed lost, though it survived secretly through the D. clan and hidden artifacts.

[wild vector]

I've had a near baseless(heavy speculation) theory that the original Nika was a literal fire given consciousness from "eating" the human fruit.

The Nika model would then come into existence from people wishing for the return of the Nika that died.

Also pretty sure the first Nika was a female.

[somber sorrel]

Hmm maybe,I believe Nika was more like a literal deity—the Sun itself—in the world of One Piece. The enslaved people would pray to the sun, seeing it as a symbol of light and hope, wishing that one day they might gain their freedom. Somehow, the sun took on a human-like form, and the slaves began calling it Nika, the Warrior of Freedom.

This idea is also implied in the texts of the First World:

"There was fire upon the earth.
Humanity succumbed to greed and touched the forbidden sun."

"The enslaved made a wish, and the God of the Sun appeared."

Would also explain why it is called as "human human" fruit model nika.

[wild vector]

I think the diety aspect will play out just like the snake on jaya. To people who are enslaved and presumably tribal, anything not understood could be contributed to god.

There's really only 3 details that make me think first Nika was the human fruit.

1- Luffys hair. It doesn't really make sense why his hair would be fire.

2-chopper highly undervalued bounty. Think about what vegapunk could do with the human fruit.

3- smiley. Since his original body was poison, his hybrid form was dripping in gel(kinda like Nika having fire hair). And he was able to freeform his body into a cannon similar to how Luffy could conjure a bat from no where.

I interpreted the first as there was fire everywhere. The slaves stole something. And made a wish(hinting devil fruit.)

The way caramel turns a fire into a living embodiment then calls it the sun god to the giants feels like how the original sun god creation could have played out

[trim trench]

Okay, so
Eustass Kidd is inspired by "William Kidd" (also known as Captain Kidd), who also had a father named "John Kyd", which is reminiscent of "Captain John". William Kidd's torture method was similar to Eustass Kidd's (as seen in the image I attached to this message). Captain John didn't die in the God Valley event, so he may have had his son (Captain Kidd) after the God Valley event. Furthermore, Captain John has the same fruit as Eustass Kidd, as seen in the chapter 1161 panel. This also explains Eustass Kidd's trust issue, because his father was killed by his own companions. I couldn't find any information about John Kyd because he didn't leave many traces, there's nothing about him on Wikipedia, and only things about his son appear: William Kidd.

I haven't found any other similarities between the two. I've already visited Wikipedia, i looked for chapters in which Captain John appears and in which Eustass Kid appears, but I haven't found any other connection between the two. If you have any information, please let me know!

NOTE: Captain John having a right arm doesn't contradict him being a Devil Fruit user. He may have used his fruit's powers simply to create a robotic arm and fight; it doesn't mean he lost his arm.

(I saw this theory on Reddit and wanted to implement it further because it's outdated)

[novel saddle]

Curious what people think or if this has been discussed before, but does anyone else think Dragon may have gotten his DF during God Valley?

I’m pretty sure most of us can agree he likely has a DF, so I’m curious to get some opinions or facts that I may have missed hahaha

[fast tulip]

yeah that’s the most popular theory at the moment ever since it was shown Dragon was present at God Valley. Most likely he ate his DF from one of the treasure chests and then places Shanks in that same chest

[wild vector]

Has it been confirmed captain John didn't die on God valley?

I just remember it saying his crew killed him for treasure.

[digital gulch]

So like... what happened to big mom? In the current era she was a batshit insane woman with hunger pangs and demanded absolute subordinance to everyone around her, but during the god valley era she is loyalish to rocks, helping kaido, not a single batshit insane action like losing her shit for not getting nachos. To me this means there was some sort of event that altered big moms behavior or something after god valley

Idk what exactly, but this of leaves some questions about big mom unexplained right? She was like that as a kid, but just had this random giant baby making machine era??

[trim trench]

There's no confirmation that he died after the God Valley Incident or during the God Valley Incident, but I deduced that he died after the incident because his body and Silver Axe's body were found by Hogback. Hogback couldn't have found his body in God Valley because that land was erased from the map.

[wild vector]

I think it's caramel losing control of the real Lin Lin personality over time.

[wild vector]

Moria had many members of the rocks pirates. There's a theory that thriller bark is a piece of God valley.

Since the pirates are betraying them right now it seems plausible he died there. Hence the myth about him dieing to crew members trying to get his treasure.

He's also wearing the same clothes in the flashback that he was in thriller bark.

[trim trench]

I firmly believe in the theory that God Valley is Thriller Bark, I just think that Captain John didn't die at that moment, because Eustass Kid is 23 years old and the event occurred 38 years ago, then it will make more sense for my theory lol

[trim trench]

And it makes more sense that John didn't die in the God Valley incident because the Rocks crew were more focused on getting Shakky back and getting off the island, so it would have to be something quick, I don't think they would think about killing an ally in the middle of a war in which everyone had the same goal, despite them being crazy

[somber sorrel]

Oh, you might be onto something! What if the thing the slaves stole was actually the flame? Or maybe the flame of the sun somehow dropped onto the earth could that be what Vegapunk was talking about? The same flame that have been used to power the Ancient Weapons. It’s possible that the flame really came from the sun itself.

Mother Caramel turning fire into the embodiment of the Sun God could be a parallel to how a single individual turned this flame into an entity that came to be known as Nika the Liberator. (For some reason, this is giving me Shanks vibes, since Shanks also guided Luffy toward becoming a pirate.)

[wild vector]

It doesn't have to have been the named crew. It could be the fodder that are turning on them now.

In 1160 you can see everything but johns right hand. He could have some kind of cyborg devil fruit.

Im inclined to believe he died here.

[trim trench]

But don't you think it makes much more sense for him to be Kidd's father because he has famous real-life names that WERE pirates with names similar to those in One Piece?

[wild vector]

I still don't think it's anything like that.

The sun symbolism seems to be just because of the fire. Doesn't necessarily mean it's gonna refer to a literal piece of the sun.

We saw the smiley could split itself into conscious mini copies. So in theory a fire that are the human fruit could do the same. Since the fire is also "human" it wouldn't go out. Hence providing some kind of limitless energy.

[trim trench]

btw there is no reason to kill John in God Valley

[wild vector]

While possible, there's more things leaning in the opposite direction.

Kid doesn't look similar. There's nothing connecting John to the south blue. And John looks and acts far more similar to Dr kurehea who is from the grand line.

[trim trench]

ok so

[wild vector]

Ok so it doesn't make much sense

[trim trench]

it does

[somber sorrel]

Hmm, I’m not sure about that.
If it is the same flame that Vegapunk talked about then, Vegapunk created a small fraction of that flame the same flame that was said to power the Ancient Weapons and even a tiny part of it was enough to power a weapon capable of destroying an entire island. If it were just a normal flame, it wouldn’t have that much energy in it. The fact that the text refers to it as a “forbidden thing” is also worth considering.

Ig nika being a female could be true since that flame was called as mother flame

[wild vector]

Vegapunks first devil fruit experiment we saw was a dog gun. Then an artificial Zoan. And finally synthetic blood to copy abilities.

So I think vegapunks version of the mother flame is a flame given a devil fruit. I personally think salamander model newt. Since it could then be held in water and not die while being able to harness the energy it's body is producing. This also explains how the greed vegapunk stole a piece of it.

Look at how much energy fire Pandora can produce. It's basically infinite and he can turn himself massive. If a fire was given a human fruit, it's fire body would then be limitless.

Look at all these pages of the smiley and tell me there aren't any similarities in concept.

It's only a Zoan, but it's body has logia style properties.

It's not even a living being, and it's capable of splitting itself into pieces.

Each smile is still poisonous and capable of sentient thought.

If this is all that an axolotl given to poison can do. Which is made be Cesar.

Imagine what a flame given human intelligence and a body could it. In theory it would be just like the smiley in that it's body would have logia properties.

[dusky acorn]

I don’t agree with that, I actually do think Kid and John look very similar.

• Similar eyes, face shape, lips, smirks, lack of double eyelids, but pronounced bottom lids under their eyes.

John even has a jaggy spike to his hair when short, just as Kid is known for. Of course it isn’t as spiky as Kid’s because that’s what happens to straight hair when it’s so long, it lays flat. But his wilted pinkish hair colour isn’t too far of a stretch for Kid to have been birthed with red hair.

And as we can see, Garling’s blond didn’t stop his own kids from being red-haired. It could have come from the mother’s side too.

Not to mention, child Kid and John both wear striped pants, and seemingly similar height / body composition as adults.

We also don’t know which ocean Cpt John originated from. It COULD be the South Blue just as much as it could be the Grand Line. But most importantly, somehow someway John’s supposed Jiki fruit did wind up all the way in the South somehow

[wild vector]

And the fact that he's wearing the same clothes he was in the flashback as in the thriller bark suggest he died there. That along with many of the other rocks pirates being zombies.

This creates a timeline that disproves the possibility he is kids father.

[last estuary]

Died where? God Valley?

Captain John was killed in mutiny, fyi.

[raw scarab]

right now in the lore, captain John died much after god valley incident. I originally had made this mistake when I was speculating that god valley was thriller bark because some rocks pirates may have died at god valley, but then we discussed how that didnt make sense because some of the rocks pirates in thriller bark died far after god valley.

[quartz whale]

I believe the fourth emperor before shanks was shiki because of the panel he was in the latest chapter (1160).

[sinful lily]

Been seeing alot of ppl buying the john is kids dad stocks. More reason for me to buy the kid is rocks clone stocks while they’re low

[eternal heart]

He is survived by his son

[wild vector]

From the context it doesn't necessarily mean after god valley.

[past pollen]

This is already proven

[spark nacelle]

No

[somber sorrel]

Hmm maybe.

[last estuary]

Wdym lol it is really implied that he survived...
"There are other rocks members who went on to carve out a name for themselves..." and he ends up naming him along with others.
And also, there's this...

[wild vector]

Went on could be during their time with rocks.

[granite surge]

Plus kidds pre timeskip design had similar buttons to captain johns coat

[last estuary]

[granite surge]

He lived post god valley, he got betrayed by a different crew

[broken seal]

It literally couldn’t mean that, though

[sinful escarp]

Since Rocks wife is name Eris similar to Aerith FF7 wouldn’t it be crazy where Garling strike down on Eris in front of Rocks like this

[remote silo]

Luffy is ace and I don’t think Nami is interested in guys so we are in fundamentally different sides on this (silly) one

[lean shadow]

What if the reason why the god knights and elders are immortal is cuz imu is projecting them somehow and they arent really immortal if you were to fight the real deal?

[iron current]

then how do you explain Saturn?

[lean shadow]

wdym?

one doesnt disprove the other,imu killed him

[iron current]

yeah, the one who was on Egghead he killed, with your theory why would the one on Egghead leave back a skeleton if he wasnt real and just a projection

[lean shadow]

didnt he arrive with a ship before?
like he was specifically there in person so of course his body would be there

[iron current]

so you are saying Saturn was actually there, but he still could heal all the damage he took

and like we see when the Elders came in, the room they were in before was empty

[lean shadow]

If its not some sort of projection why would they be pushed back by a haki burst?

[iron current]

bcause we dont know how their teleportation works and it seems strong enough Haki can reverse it

[lean shadow]

I dont think its teleportation,that df is taken.
The way oda depicted it for me only projection makes sense for now.

[iron current]

listen im just giving you pointers to why i think its not just projections, but i might be wrong as well

[iron current]

obviously its not the teleportation fruit, but somehow they can teleport, seemingly through the Abyss as we know since Elbaph

[iron current]

but where did the Elders go when they appeared on Egghead, like we see the empty room where they reside normally

[lean shadow]

The fact that imu can take over someones body tells me he is linked in some way to them and is giving them immortality.
I do hope its something fcked up like hawkins df cuz it would make a good villain of imu.
Idk if you have seen chainsaw man,but you know that main lady power,yeah that was op

If imu turnes out to be a woman I hope its eve.

[tender matrix]

But what if Vegapunk’s full body really isn’t human anymore? We have seen bits and pieces of him scattered around the bodies of various robots, and it has been hinted that he might have transferred consciousness, or even somehow his life force, into said machines. I THIK in essence what I mean is that maybe the real Vegapunk has been integrated Egghead Island system, remotely controlling all the tech and Pacifistas, which would explain him being always one step ahead. This could also connect into the Ancient Weapons: maybe he's been secretly researching or even profiting from their creation on Egghead, and the "island" might basically be one huge lab/weapon. If this goes through, Egghead is not just a place anymore.they are really going to reveal that Vegapunk + Egghead is such a formidable force that could completely tilt the balance between the World Government and the Straw Hats.

[dark leaf]

nami has also shown no genuine interest in girls in general to the point of not even reacting to hancock in sabaody, never mind vivi

it's much more logical to assume luffy and nami will keep sailing together along with whoever else remains in the crew, than nami ditching all that to be with a girl she has no feelings for

[remote silo]

Nami had a super strong bond with Vivi. Let’s set aside the question for a moment cause this already isn’t a topic I’m very engaged with. Nami had more emotion, more empathy, more tears and more motivation with Vivi than any other character. They were thick as thieves, and Nami deeply focused on Vivi and her wellbeing.

The only thing that’s competing with is with the children on pink hazard, which I think is understandable by most people. But I struggle to think of others Nami has had a bond with that mirrors hers and Vivi’s

Nami went ride or die so fast and said fuck the money, something she usually only does for those she deeply cares about (Usopp for example)

Also to clarify I’m not even talking about romantic possibilities here, I’m just challenging that they weren’t close

[dark leaf]

this is completely false, and it feels like you've forgotten about things like nami putting her life on the line twice for luffy's honor in wano, crying profusely over robin and sanji's respective captures and turmoil, even setting aside the case of 200M beris stolen for usopp's sake to focus on him as well as her tears for both him and luffy when they fought

it's something I've noticed with namivivi fans, they tend to disregard her bonds with quite literally all of the straw hats to prop up their ship, and there's a reason why nami is still sailing with luffy and the SHs instead of settling down in alabasta with the person you say she's closest to

this is in response to the claim that vivi is the one nami is closest to when that is outright not true

[remote silo]

I’m not even a Nami/Vivi stan lol but anyway I also answered your first paragraph with my second message. Yes, your examples are reinforcement for the closeness I am speaking of

[dark leaf]

idk why you're even addressing how close they are because I never claimed that they aren't, I said there are no romantic feelings between them and that it makes much more sense for nami to continue with luffy and the crew based on her role, dreams and stronger bonds with her crewmates than anyone else

[remote silo]

I’m also confused by the aggro. I guess we all fall in love with our ideals of what one piece is

[dark leaf]

I'm talking about one of my favorite characters in a forum of free discussion, I can express my disagreement with a false claim about said character if I choose to

I haven't gotten angry at you or anything, I've simply put forth my views on why vivi being the most important person to nami in terms of emotion, empathy etc doesn't make sense

[remote silo]

All good my bad for misreading your tone, genuinely

This convo did make me think of the first interaction between BB and Luffy tho. BB was the one talking about dreams never ending. I think there’s two ways to read Luffy’s thoughts:

One, all things should end, nothing should last forever, change is good

Two, Luffy views dreams and adventures as separate things and feels that dreams should be achieved and adventure should be endless

So really I think it comes down to if Luffy will be satisfied after fulfilling his dreams, or if that’ll be a catalyst for him to set off on more romps with everyone (assuming we’re all alive by the end)

[wild vector]

If they were recruited before they were known and made a reputation while under rocks, the went on to make a name for themselves could mean while with rocks.

[wild vector]

Since namis dream is to map the entire world, I'm pretty sure the epilogue will have her joining the usopp pirates.

I really think Luffy will disband them post one piece.

[wild vector]

That is just the speculation. It not said anywhere when he actually dies.

[granite surge]

Thats not speculation gang

[wild vector]

It's literally not confirmed anywhere. All we know is that he got killed by his crew for his treasure.

He's wearing the same exact clothes as a zombie. It's not out of the question to consider he died on God valley.

[dark leaf]

when luffy's greatest fear is being alone, why would he ever disband his precious crew? just the thought of them was able to get him out of the hole he was in after ace's death

[wild vector]

His greatest fear isn't being alone. You are confusing his despair after losing ace with actual gear.

He only wants to become pirate king for his dream. If his dream gets accomplished, he may have no reason to continue on being a pirate.

Final panel of the series could be a throwback to usopp disbanding the usopp pirates(which oda cried while he drew it)

[broken seal]

You’re being obtuse for the sake of it. No one who died at GV can be said to “go on and make a name for themselves”. These are all pirates who went on to have a career after Rocks, including John. There’s no other way to interpret Sengoku’s history lesson

[wild vector]

With the context it's just as likely.

Not to mention there are multiple zombies that are rocks pirates who aren't confirmed to have died at God valley.

Moria finding them all at once makes more sense than hunting them down individually.

[broken seal]

Moria went to great lengths collecting powerful corpses from multiple far-flung locations. There’s no reason his Rocks collection had to come from a single source.

Why are we bending backwards to say John had to die at GV anyways?

[spark nacelle]

Nami hasn’t shown any signs she likes women

[raw scarab]

Moria went to great lengths to get powerful zombies. It would make sense he would hunt down bodies individualy. Heck if he managed to get Oars body shipped to him, getting a few rocks pirates bodies from varies grave sites would be super easy.

[versed hamlet]

A Theory of Meek

-- The Structure of The Knights of God --

We know that the Knights of God are the primary military force for the WG. It's been hinted pretty obviously to the reader that the marines will split off into a mosaic of factions with their own agendas, likely to be spearheaded by people like Koby, Akainu, Kuzan, etc, so they aren't a reliable source of fighting power for the majority of the Final War, although I do reckon they'll still be united when it first starts. The Cipher Pol groups operate in much more of a secret capacity, acting like the secret service or a CIA type force, so while they'll be protecting the Celestial Dragons, we cannot say for certain that they'll be doing lots of active fighting during the final war.

This brings us to the Knights of God. They have the benefit of being trusted by the CDs as they're either all Celestial Dragons, brainwashed, or are Celestial Dragon "fan-boys". If we were to model the WG to be of a similar structure to a Yonko crew, they'd be like the officers and soldiers, where the gorosei are the commanders, and Imu is the emperor. There is a reason why I believe that the Knights of God operate as both the officers (Think: flying 6/hawkins/apoo/numbers in the Beast Pirates).

Here's what we know of their structure so far: Garling used to be their supreme commander, clearly their #1 knight. Shamrock is interestingly just a commander. While it is indeed possible that Shamrock just took over Garling's place and will likely fill the role of supreme commander soon, I want to take a different approach. There are 19 families in Marijoa - each with a plurality of Knights (assumption #1). I think each family has their own "Knights of God" commander, and the supreme commander (previously held by Garling) is the leader of the commanders. I have this thought based on the framing that the "Bavette and Shepherd families" were in the lead for a time being in God Valley, meaning they each had multiple competitors.

This would resolve the issue of the CDs having their own military force with high numbers. Originally, I thought that there'd only be at most 10-12 Knights of God, but if there could be multiple per family - we can get hundreds of knights for the allied forces to fight. I'd like to assume that the commanders of each house are very strong but the spectrum of strength per holy knight can vary quite a lot.

TLDR: Each family has multiple Knights of God but their own commander. The supreme commander is the leader of the knights of god and manages each house's commander. This gives the CDs a larger number of fighters.

[wicked lava]

Who deleted my theory

[iron current]

!theories

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[iron current]

your "theory" is more fitting to be put into #manga-serious then there with how you put it, if you wanna give some pointers to why you think it is its a different story

[wicked lava]

Ahh Alr

[wild vector]

I think judge will make Sanji the next king of the Germa kingdom. Possibly just in name(similar to how Kuma was king) until he returns post one piece.

The whole catalyst of the WCI arc was judges yearning for power. He wanted to marry off Sanji to be connected to an emperors crew.

That obviously didn't work, but now it doesn't matter since Luffy is an emperor.

All judge would need to do is say black leg Sanji of the strawhat crew is the Germa empires king.

This has been hinted with the "Sanji constitution" gag about what happens when you hurt nami.

Just like sabo became the "flame emperor" and United various nations to their cause. Sanjis role in challangeing the government will unite the north blue nations under the Germa.

Since judge and ceasar got their cover story, I think they may do some vegapunk esque feats to supply arms/weapons to nations.

[wild vector]

I think these lines go to support the idea that the original Nika wasn't an actual god.

[solar chasm]

I think Rocks would be converted to a Demon that's why Roger and Garp teamed up to stop a Demon Rocks from killing everyone
Imu can't do the Demon transformation to a strong individual unless Imu in the form of Brook's daughter forced him to make a blood pact with them. Imu somehow got to Teach first before Rocks

[fringe hemlock]

what do people mean when they say “actual god?”

[broken seal]

Not mortal. A supernatural entity with more power than a person could have

[fringe hemlock]

is there an example of that in the story before?

[broken seal]

Nika, as we understand him, is an “actual god”

[fringe hemlock]

i mean in the context of what i was replying to this is a kinda circular example

[broken seal]

Nika is an answer in that context. They are questioning whether Nika is an actual god, because as far as he’s been presented, he is.

Actual god as opposed to a powerful animal like the god of the mountain, or that giant snake. Or deified people like sword god Ryuma.

[pure tusk]

I don’t think there are an actual gods in the story the whole point is that every myth has some truth to it

[iron loom]

This is how Nika was born. His first physical manifestation came from Joyboy.

[broken seal]

The Nika myth definitely predates Joyboy

[iron loom]

Yes it does.

[pure tusk]

Nika and joyboy are separate people

[broken seal]

It’s not about whether there are gods or not, I’m just talking conceptually

[iron loom]

To an extent they are the same, because Nika wasn’t a physical person. Let’s move to another channel

[pure tusk]

I tagged u

[misty rain]

More in the headspace that he’s going to clone Sanji with Caeser and make a new stealth black

[remote silo]

Aren't Sanji's bros already his clones, and they're all failed experiments except for Sanji. Feels kinda like well-trodden ground already. But who knows, I am looking forward to seeing Germa again regardless!

Just realized that Sanji's bros are like the failed awakened zoans from Impel Down. They lost their entire personalities and free will in exchange for tremendous strength and power

[wild vector]

All of those are the same thing. Just because Nika is powerful and associated with the sun, that doesn't mean he's an actual god. Like every other time we have seen, anything that is refered to as a god is just powerful.

[fringe hemlock]

this is where my head be at on this subject, gods depend on people worshipping or fearing them, it makes it a subjective classification especially in a world where power is accessible to anyone

[broken seal]

The difference is that we don’t have any strong evidence that Nika existed in any tangible way

[drowsy gate]

Guys please i need help about a translation that may be false, its about the birth of Shirahosi, some scan says that ''Once every few centuries'' that mermaid is born, while others says ''Once or twice in a Millenial''

I have a serious theory that may change everything considering the right translation, anyone has the original japanese text ? Its the page 9 from chapter 626, i don't know where i can find it

[pure tusk]

Yoo do you have the raws I can maybe get it translated for you

[drowsy gate]

You mean the japanese text ? Thats what im looking for actually, i don't know where to find them

[wild vector]

There isn't much stronger evidence suggesting he didn't.

If there were myths about Nika freeing slaves than he likely did exist

[regal kite]

Nika isn't real

[wild vector]

More evidence and logical conclusions to suggest he was. The only evidence that he wasn't is the devil fruit class.

[vocal remnant]

That's exactly what I was thinking because right now they don't really have a reason to have an all out fight especially one where Garp would have to back up none other than Roger! Rocks only wants to save his family and everyone else just wants some treasure and Garp wants Roger (probably dead).

[solar chasm]

Also I think Roger would back down on Rocks when he feels that he is gonna save someone and Rocks would back down since he saved his friend Shakky
Also Harald got probably went Demon mode so Rocks could also be in demon mode

[drowsy gate]

I have a strong theory that Bucaneers can't be controled by Imu's power

[iron current]

Wanna add a bit to it besides just the idea?

[drowsy gate]

Well, we know that Kuma is suposed to be dead or a ''robot'' but he somehow still has consciousness, i believe the reason Bucaneers got erased is because Imu fears the fact they somehow can't be controled

[wild vector]

The still having consciousness likely relates to the will of his spirit rather than some kind of genetic advantage.

If the fruit didn't reset than the body is still technically alive. If he's still alive than his consciousness probably still exist as a fragmented form.

[drowsy gate]

But even Vegapunk can't explain it, it can't just be ''will of spirit'', it must have something to do with his race

Especially the fact that NONE of them is still here to tell the story, to me its obvious that they can't be controled

[wild vector]

She does it as well. And she was long dead.

I don't think so man. There are other races that have been lost to time. I doubt it's because they can't be controlled either

[drowsy gate]

Its the girl who lost her shadow ? I don't remember at wich degree she ''does it'', you can be right tho

[wild vector]

She was a corpse being reanimated by a shadow. And it's heavily implied that the original soul of the body started taking control from the shadow that was animating it.

This is further hinted with Captain John drinking like he did while alive.

Or ryuuma acting like a samurai and giving his sword away.

[drowsy gate]

Ah, we'r talking about reincarnation tho, idk if it applies the same as someone supposed to lose all his brain cells

[wild vector]

Same concept. Kuma is not dead by his body is being moved by technology. His soul/Spirit defied the very technology powering him because he wanted to save boney.

You are confusing causation and correlation. Just because the buccaneers were purposely killed doesn't mean it's because Imu couldn't control them.

[fluid sequoia]

i think one of the specialitys of the buccaneers is that after death, their soul does not leave the body, like it does for normal people

[drowsy gate]

I Don't believe its the ''only reason'' they got killed tho, i believe its one of it, if the best scientist alive can't explain why he still act as himself then there must be a deeper reason than spirit, Vegapunk MUST know about Moria shadows, so he would have said something about it, but no he went straight for the ''I dont even how the fuck its happening''

[hoary hatch]

I think the way the manga explained it was that the corpse of the zombie has the memories from their life and eventually these memories/personality will overpower the "shadow" that was used to raise the zombie. Early on the shadow has more influence (hence how the zombies with Zoro and Sanji shadows acted like the duo for a while or how Oars acted like Luffy) but eventually only the personality of the body remain.

We see this with other zombies as well. The samurai with the shadow of Brooks is the best example as it no longer cares about things that Brooks cares about and is acting totally like the samurai.

[drowsy gate]

Like he studied every fruits in the world, he would have probably said something about people still getting memories from Shadows if the only reason was ''will of spirit''

[drowsy gate]

And that aswell, the fact that Bucaneers used to wear strawhats must be related to JoyBoy, and if he was one of them, then no wonder Imu couldnt control him, wich means Imu probably wont be able to control neither Luffy or Blackbeard

[wild vector]

Nope. It's explained as the body retains the skills and personality of the shadow.

Had to go get the panels for proof.

[wild vector]

"can a soulness body have its own will".

[drowsy gate]

But Brook is explaining it tho, the personality comes from the Shadow, Robin and Chopper just dont know it

[wild vector]

They witness a personality and then the shadow not being able to control the body.

What are you talking about..

[drowsy gate]

Oh i didn't see she was struggling with her own self

[remote silo]

This sounds awfully close to how Imu once describes the clan of D. Bodies meant only to be vessels, adrift without knowing their purpose

[drowsy gate]

Wait but thats what am i saying tho, her shadow's personnality is pure, thats why she's not listening 😂

[drowsy gate]

Right

[wild vector]

I don't even know what you are trying to say.

My point was it apply to Kuma because the situation is similar. Kuma is supposed to be mentally dead but his will continued on.

Your theory that Imu cannot control buccaneer doesn't make sense in my opinion. Buccaneer is supposed to be something like giants blood. If he can control giants, he can control buccaneers, lunarians, etc.

[wild vector]

I don't know what you are talking about.

[drowsy gate]

What im trying to say is, the reason SHE is not listening is because the shadow reflects the personality, she was not a fighter alive, so her shadow doesnt want to fight, its not her ''will'' its just who she used to be that makes her uncontrolable

[remote silo]

I’m pontificating about that scene, and how much the description resembles when Imu gave an answer for who the clan of D. are. I’ve always connected these two things in my mind for some reason

[wild vector]

That doesn't mak sense dude... Go and read the whole chapters so you can see the context. It clearly implies the owner of the body was resisting after hearing choppers words

[wild vector]

In the context it looks like it just means they don't know anything about their heritage and who the d clan once was. I don't think the empty husk has any relation to souls

[remote silo]

Well that could be. But then what do you do with the information that Luffy’s body could handle more shadows by a factor of 100 than people that aren’t Moria. It’s pretty explicitly shown something super weird is going on and how Luffy seems to be a bottomless pit for more than just food

[drowsy gate]

I mean it completely makes sense when you know that all she did when she was alive was cleaning dishes dude come on, Hogback's dumb ass tought he could change her but obviously he can't cause she was pure

[wild vector]

That goes to show the strength of his own spirit to be able to handle all that and not lose control. I think someone besides the nami and usopp ask if he's still Luffy after they put the shadows.

Again. I don't think that has anything to do with his soul other than own strength of spirit.

[drowsy gate]

WOW, that actually makes way more sense now lol

[wild vector]

The panel clearly implies it's cindry that was resisting. Not the shadow of the maid.

[drowsy gate]

At the end of day, even if it was the case, it seems that Bucaneers seem to have way stronger will than anybody, so like i said i wouldn't be surprised if Imu can't control Xebec, Luffy, or Blackbeard

[remote silo]

Another example along the same lines is the wishes and dreams Luffy carried on his back in Wano. He is often shown taking on other’s burdens and willing it into existence. The fact that Oda has repeated this motif over and over suggests it’s not isolated and instead a pretty significant factor to the meaning of the story.

There’s a lot of metaphorical and physical storytelling going on here that’s more than just the individual parts

[wild vector]

You are gonna believe what you wanna believe.

We could very well see a domi reversi'd Luffy.

And blackbeard could have intentionally went for the darkness fruit as some sort of counter to Imu.

[drowsy gate]

I also have a theory for blackbeard fruit choice if u wanna hear it 😂

[remote silo]

I don’t think that’s a buccaneer thing, personally. But I have a similar opinion I’m keen to see get tested: are those who are truly free immune? If the whole world was once free, and that is the case, it would certainly make a strong case to erase some really important history so you don’t lose your stranglehold of power

Either way I want this stress tested soon please Oda

[remote silo]

Luffy was Legion in that arc lol

[drowsy gate]

I think Roger will hear the voice of all in godvaley (wich will make him go after what JoyBoy left)

[remote silo]

God valley gonna be everything I think. Pretty much every major player in the story now is connected to GV, including every straw hat if I’m not mistaken. Whatever happens, it’s gonna be even bigger than Roger I predict

(I believe Chopper will require either Hiriluk or Docterine to be at GV tho)

[drowsy gate]

Wait, how are the strawhats connected to GV ?

[remote silo]

Well, let’s see if I can do this without referring to my notes:

• Brook is related via Gunko at the very least
• Luffy is connected like four different ways: Dad, grandpa, Shanks, and Roger (straw hat)
• Nami is a leap but she’s a happy redheaded baby smiling in the middle of a warzone; obviously not GV but did her origin start similar to Shank’s?
• Usopp whose dad is on the red hair pirates crew
• Robin via the RA (potentially more)
• Franky helped build the Roger pirates ship
• Bonus: Buggy via being on Roger’s crew + searching for John’s treasure this entire time

Bonus is to make up for not having my notes offhand

Just a longstanding hope I have is that god valley is where Hiriluk saw the profound change of heart that changed his life. For a hot minute I thought he might have actually secretly been Rocks lol

In my defense their silhouetted hair is not too far off okay!

[drowsy gate]

If you look at Hiluluk cloths and hair it highly looks like he was related to garling 👀

[remote silo]

Interesting. I had him more pegged as Clover’s brother. Which would connect Robin and Chopper lol

[drowsy gate]

I definitly think he worked for the holy knights

[remote silo]

I don’t think he was lying about being a thief tho

[drowsy gate]

He was a thief, but that doesnt mean he didnt work for them before becoming a pirate just like brook 👀

[remote silo]

Oh for sure, I just meant that’s how he described his present tense self when telling recounting the story iirc

[ivory sluice]

Well If you call that a connection to GV then every individual is connected to GV cause pirats > there are pirates involved, WG > there is WG involved, citizens > there are citizens involved...so its not as relevant cause one would think there are connections as the strawhats are mainchars and GVis a major incident

[drowsy gate]

On the other hand i don't think we can call everything a connection tho, the only people that were really connected to GV are just every person that was there i think

[dreamy hull]

is not really a Buccaneer thing
Even back in Thriller Bark we had Cindry body reacting toward end and rejecting the shadow possessing it despite even being completely dead by long time

[drowsy gate]

Do we know wich shadow possessed her ? Cause if it was hers then its normal that her body reacted bad

[dreamy hull]

could not have her own shadow
She was already dead and then transformed in zombie by Moria and Hogback

it was because of the original lingering will she was able to refuse his orders at end

[drowsy gate]

Do you mind telling me whats that original lingering will because i completly forgot about that

[dreamy hull]

Cindry's
The shadow implanted was of someone else

[remote silo]

That’s technically true for our entire world! But yes, I meant connections which had a means of influencing them. Shanks was a huge influence on Luffy, for instance. If Hiruluk was there, I think that’s self explanatory.
Brook very much seems like he was physically there at some point. Franky’s entire life was impacted because he assisted his mentor who assisted the guy with the eyes on fire with ambition after the GV incident.

I actually did mean significant connections, not just six degrees of Kevin bacon.

[drowsy gate]

alright

[wild vector]

It's all just stretching things to try to make some connection to god valley.

The crew probably won't ever even talk about god valley.

[remote silo]

Yeah true very true, it seems like something anyone is potentially capable of

[remote silo]

The crew talking or even knowing about god valley has nothing to do with it tho? This isn’t about them. It’s about the strange behavior of all those involved AFTER they were in incident on GV. Many of these are the guys who have shaped the current state of the world, legitimately. What do the SH’s knowledge have anything to do with this?

Luffy doesn’t know a lick about Joyboy, ya know

[wild vector]

You are saying all the strawhats have a connection to god valley. But you are using the word connection pretty loosely.

[wild vector]

This is the vibe.

[remote silo]

This is like saying history doesn’t matter to understand our current world, tho. Okay not that extreme, I am joking, but genuinely:

One Piece is a story about what one generation passes on to the next, and the intersectional ways in which all these competing priorities clash with one another.

A Fishman broke himself and others out of bondage, and all he could think about at the end was how he was too of the old era, and his worry of passing that hatred downward. Fast forward to the assassination of a politician years later - one event domino’d into the other over a long, convoluted, but direct line of causation. Like this is a huge theme I’m leaning into

[drowsy gate]

I believe the way Hody Jones acted was not only based off Fisher Tiger's story, i get what you saying tho but its still too early to even know if everybody is connected to GV, some might but not everybody i think, we will see tho

[remote silo]

Your point about Hody exactly! There were many contributing factors, not just a singular one. But Tiger was the catalyst event, because that got Jimbei involved in everything, it got us Arlong and their despot origins, and with Arlong came along Hody. That’s the connections I’m speaking of in regards to GV

Essentially if you look at a pebble drop in water, GV would be the rock, Garp, Dragon, Rocks are the first ripple of the ring. The wave will eventually reach everyone, the SH’s being this close to that first ripple just helps us better understand who they are as people.

I dunno, I like it cause I am all about this kind of connective tissue writing lol, not meaning to cause any hard feelings or anything. I just really enjoy character development opportunities lmao

Also can I just say that Fishman Island is under appreciated by too many people in the general audience for my liking and that’s a bummer. Such a fantastic arc

[drowsy gate]

I get what u saying, well i can't wait to see if it turns out true, and yes fishman island has soooo many important informations to the story lol

[remote silo]

It’s fun to think thru even if it’s wrong lol

[broken seal]

I can point to a lot of myths concerning gods interacting with historical people in real-world locations that we can still visit. Myths that actual people believed, and in some places still do. None of that proves the gods were real.

We don’t have any hard historical record of an actual physical Nika. But we do have a mythical zoan, which by itself implies he’s a mythical figure

[broken seal]

I’m not discounting the possibility there was inspiration behind the myth, I’m just not convinced it would be a person called Nika who did crazy things.

And I don’t think what Ganfall or Enel are talking about has anything to do with this. More that what matters is the actions people take, not just stories. Even if there was a god, it’s a “god helps those who help themselves” type deal

[wild vector]

Sure you could.

But this is one piece. So none of that actually matters.

If the real Nika existed then it was over 800 years ago and probably during the first world.

To modern people he would be seen as a myth.

[wild vector]

That's fine. If it were so obvious it wasn't a point of discussion, it wouldn't be a good story.

I completely disagree. They are talking (basically) talking about man calling anything powerful or uncomprehendable "god"

Since the fan base is split over whether Nika was an actual god, I think it's quite relevant.

Good example of myth and the passage of time would be the sky islands.

400 years ago they weren't disputed. During this time they are considered myths.

Yet we as readers know they do exist.

[broken seal]

The primary reason the fan base is split is because Nika was so closely tied to Joyboy, an actual person. As Oda would say, it’s a matter of reading comprehension.

There isn’t anything yet in the story that points to a real Nika. There’s more evidence that there was a real Sora

[wild vector]

If there was a way to put this on one of those predictive market apps. I'd make a killing.

Lol there is just as much evidence pointing towards Nika being real as there is sora being real.

And sora probably dates back to the unification of the north blue. I doubt he or she goes back to the first world.

[broken seal]

There simply isn’t. All there is, is a cryptic piece of lore that is so old that the oldest people all the planet don’t even know what it means. Anything outside of that strictly shows Nika as mythic figure.

Luffy now is the “sun god appearing”, and that 100% goes for Joyboy too. Going back to the first world, I can see that as another hero embodying the preexisting Nika myth. Or maybe there were literal gods back then. But the one thing that doesn’t feel right to me is that Nika was some dude who became deified.

[wild vector]

This conversation from who's who implies he may have been real. Since it says long distant past, it's possible it's referring to the first world. This the original Nika.

Even the giants don't refer to Luffy as joyboy. They say he looks like Nika.

I am absolutely willing to die on this hill: the first Nika wasn't a real god. He wasnt a human being either.

He/she was a human fire. A fire that was "fed" the human fruit. If tribal people saw fire turn into a human form (like caramel turned fire into a sun), they would certainly label it as god.

[broken seal]

I think if fire became a person, that is a god lol but that’s not a bad idea

Who’s who’s dialogue leaves the possibility open, but all it says for sure is that belief in Nika is very old. We know that from the giants too.

And of course the giants would say Luffy looks like Nika, Joyboy did too. They have a fruit with the physical properties of Nika. That doesn’t move the needle either way. I can give a detailed description of Shiva, that’s not proof he was ever real

[wild vector]

That's still not a god though lol. That's like saying smiley is a god because he is a living embodiment of poison.

Even the way he asked "did they dream him up" feels like a small hint. Because of Nika was real then the Nika fruit would have been dreamt up and manifested by someone's desire.

Chopper stocks going to skyrocket once we get the lore.

[teal crane]

Why did they only show Whitebeard and Marco's Devil Fruit designs now? Is it just random, or is there some connection to the manga?

[wild vector]

Nope. It could be relevant to what fruits are in the chests but we know the earthquake fruit wasn't there.

[teal crane]

But how did the design suddenly come about?

[broken seal]

We don’t know what the mechanism behind fruits is, but we know there is one. If something like that happened of its own accord, that’s a completely different matter.

We can agree about dreams too. But that doesn’t necessarily mean a real Nika, just that the desire is. It can apply to any other mythical zoan

[wild vector]

I don't think oda would tease him being real just to say nope he was just a myth.

[teal crane]

Anyway, I was referring to the posts (I don't know if you've seen them) on Pewpiece

[wild vector]

I haven't. Googled and saw some post on Reddit, but haven't seen the images or where they came from. I don't think a new sbs is set to release till November so idk where this info would be from

[teal crane]

Because if it wasn't a spoiler or at least with the story of Elbaf I wanted to send it to my anime watcher friends

[wild vector]

I don't think so.

[broken seal]

I just don’t see how that’s meant to be a tease one way or another. It’s establishing the existence of the myth, and that’s just a feature of myths. More than anything, that dialogue was meant to tease Luffy’s powerup

[wild vector]

Because it's talking about something that has existed through word of mouth for longer than the void century.

I think you are putting too much emphasis on the whole "mythological model". Because that's really the only reason the fan base thinks Nika didn't exist.

We won't know till we get more lore and that seems like a ways away.

[wild vector]

I wonder if this belief was started by a devil fruit of their ancestors returning to the fruit on the tree after they died.

Side theory: I'm beginning to think the country of jaya was an ancient kingdom colony.

I also think(due to the similar ruin architecture) that zou originated on the left eye space of jaya.

From Robin we know shandora thrived 1100 years ago. And was then destroyed 800 years ago.

I am also curious about the original purpose of the sacred altar was actually for.

[wise dawn]

The one piece is a UFO the straw hat symbolizes a UFO Roger and monkey have the same dream of wanting to go to space maybe to become space Pirates. That’s why celestial dragons wear spacesuits.

[remote silo]

I remember reading this a while back, Oda’s answer to how Luffy materializes things. Maybe I’m missing context tho - like maybe it was a joke answer or something. But I really do like his answer

[storm jasper]

yeahh they don't like her

[remote silo]

Momo being Imu is the most interesting part

[autumn sable]

Guys what if in the end of one piece Blackbeard ends up klling Luffy after Luffy and his crew have a massive fight with imu

Cuz Blackbeard tends to wait until their enemies are weakened before fighting them plus he’s likes to play dirty

[mighty moon]

Don't think thats real

[drowsy gate]

Nika definitly existed and the robot found on elbaf porbably was his

[remote silo]

As in he was jesting? Or that there’s ways to interpret it I’m not considering?

[wicked lava]

Theory: so we know that Roronoa Arashi (Zoro’s dad) was killed by a pirate. Assuming it’s mihawk. And mihawk always shows his front body (which has no scars) but we never see his back as ‘scars on the back are a swordsman’s shame’, so we can imply that Arashi gave mihawk back scars, and that could be why he trained Zoro

[dense tapir]

Cool theory but how old is zoros dad compared to mihawk?

[wicked lava]

Oh yeah I forgot about age

[dense tapir]

U could be right like I don’t know how old either are

[wicked lava]

Zoros dad died when Zoro was very young, there’s a 22 year difference between Zoro and mihawk. So maybe when mihawk was in his twenties he killed zoros dad

[dense tapir]

I can see that

[drowsy gate]

Was it destroyed ? I remember they fought to protect the poneglyph but we don't really know how it ended, and i believe the sacred altar is just something similar to our world, people tell a story about something that happened centuries before, and new generations will misunderstand it and start sacrificing people in the myth of gods, but like Norland said there is no God living among humans

[granite surge]

Nika can probably see through luffy

[somber sorrel]

I have a theory that Nika was never a real figure in the ancient times, but rather a story character created by the oppressed. Much like folk heroes in our own world, Nika would have existed only as a tale of hope, a symbol of freedom and laughter that slaves and common people passed down in times of suffering. This explains why Nika has no concrete historical record because he was never truly a person, but a fantasy born from imagination.

The Hito Hito no Mi, Model: Nika may therefore act as a gateway between fantasy and reality. Its true power isn’t simply making the user’s body rubber, but allowing the wielder to embody imagination itself. When Luffy activates Gear 5, he isn’t becoming “the Sun God Nika” in a literal sense, he is manifesting the fantasy of Nika into reality. This explains why his abilities defy physics and feel cartoonish, he is fighting with the logic of imagination, just as the tale of Nika always promised.

This also clarifies why the Gorosei fear the fruit above all others. They don’t fear a “god” being reborn they fear the possibility of a myth made real, a story that could inspire the world to rebel against them. Now, Luffy has reawakened it, proving that the myth of Nika can truly exist in the world.

In this interpretation, Gear 5 is not just a power-up, but a metaphysical bridge between imagination and reality.

[broken seal]

Couldn’t have said it better. If devil fruits are the manifestation of dreams, this is the ultimate version of that, because it allows for so much freedom

[soft urchin]

since devil fruits are made from dreams and often shaped by the user, the abilities of the fruit are more based on the user's IDEA of the power. That's why Sasaki could fly as a triceratops and why Luffy’s rubber body acts the way it does.

[remote silo]

Oooh I like your interpretation! Damn that is solid. Gonna ponder on it

[wild vector]

He has no concrete historical record because Imu rules the world... Nor do we know what they know about him in elbaph.

[broken seal]

We know exactly what they know about him in Elbaf. We heard multiple perspectives about it, and got the Harley text

[wild vector]

That doesn't mean we have their history on him....

[broken seal]

It really does. We got very explicit exposition on what Elbaf thinks of Nika, and the cloudy history that fuels those beliefs. Straight from the oldest living giant. What else is there to tell

[wild vector]

None of that is confirmation he didn't exist. Or anything concrete.

Your rationale is like the whole only Luffy will have conquerors haki. The main argument they had was "it's rare, 1 in a million". The whole argument for Nika not being real is the fruit says myth.

[broken seal]

Idk what you mean about the conq, not touching that. But yeah, having a mythical fruit is evidence that Nika is a myth. It’s about the only strong evidence we have either way.

But it’s true, we don’t know. All I’m saying right now is we very much do know what knowledge Elbaph has on him. Even untouched by Imu’s influence, their history on stuff like that is so hazy that people can’t even agree what kind of figure he was

[somber sorrel]

its a theory from current understanding of the story, if there comes any physical evidence of nika being real then yes he could exist.

[drowsy gate]

The zoan awakening takes over Luffy everytime he goes gear 5, if Nika was an exception then it shouldnt be the case

[wild vector]

The myth model is just is just because Nika is from the long distant past.

This statement that Vivi said would basically apply to Nika. They just think he's a legend now.

But the mother flame and the giants belief that Nika is a prophetic figure of destruction or hope indicates that Nika was actually real.

[drowsy gate]

And what i mean is his personnality, Luffy should stay Luffy if Nika didnt exist, idk if you get what i mean

Like Luffy is literally somebody else everytime he awakens it

[broken seal]

Vegepunk synthesized the mother flame independent of Nika. We can’t even say for sure they are related.

People believe myths are real. The giants’ belief doesn’t prove anything.

And we don’t have any example of a mythical fruit being based on something in reality. It’s a possibility but there’s no evidence for it yet

[drowsy gate]

But then what makes Luffy act like that everytime he awakens it ?

[somber sorrel]

The whole thing of nika taking over Luffy is still a speculative thing not a real fact, he feels extreme joy and has a great feeling of doing everything in gear 5. Tell me one evidence where it really felt like Nika had taken control of him entirely

[broken seal]

Is the implication Nika is inside the fruit and possessing Luffy? It’s true that zoan fruits have independent will. Even if that is something happening to Luffy, it doesn’t mean there is a literal god in the fruit

[drowsy gate]

I dont believe Nika was a God, i believe it was a kid that somehow ended getting that power

[wild vector]

Mother FLAME. Nika has FIRE for hair.

Whatever the means of how vegapunk made the mother flame, it's intent is to mimic something. And that something isn't probably Nika but how Nika functions.

"We can't say for sure" but this is a story and close examination leads is to likely conclusions.

People don't matter. This is one piece. We are talking about the implications of the story. Trying to dismiss their beliefs just because there's no weight shown to them yet is silly.

You are just hanging way too much on the model of the fruit that you don't want to consider otherwise.

[broken seal]

The power of Nika? So whose power was it before that?

[drowsy gate]

Nobody, he was the first one to get it*

[broken seal]

I’m willing to consider whatever. I’m just not making up evidence where there isn’t any

[wild vector]

But you keep stating(like others) that the Nika is a myth like it's confirmed. But the reality is the story intentionally leaves it open for us to discuss.

The mother flame, nikas flame, and vegapunks psuedo mother flame are all connected. This isn't making up evidence. It's the most logical conclusion.

[drowsy gate]

I don't see Luffy smiling after his friend just got a hole in his stomach honestly, its speculations ofc but to me its someone that existed before and probably a kid

[somber sorrel]

You're free to think that

[drowsy gate]

And i believe Imu is a possesed kid aswell

[broken seal]

Nika IS a myth. There is no disputing that. The question is the origin of the myth. It’s my opinion he was always a story, but I’m willing to consider otherwise when we get a reason to think that.

I also think there is a connection with the mother flame. It looks too visually similar to Nika’s hair and all that. But there’s nothing pseudo about VP’s creation. And if he could do it now, the VC scientists could make it too. And they could be the source behind the Nika fruit’s power. Which brought the story to reality

[remote silo]

I think most of the Straw Hat's crew descend from the tontatta clan, and Imu may be an enlarged tontatta (all tontatta's wear silly hats!). Being a possessed kid would also be super cool. Walking on stilts and hiding in a trench coat for 800 years

[drowsy gate]

That would be interesting haha

[remote silo]

I mean look at all those silly hats! There's even a spiky jester's crown

they're also tiny and super strong. And they can't even conceive of what a lie is (which has been the most important factor for me)

[drowsy gate]

Theres something i don't get tho, did we get the name of the 5 elders devil fruits ? I don't even remember

[remote silo]

I don't think it's been confirmed if they even have devil fruits, has it?

they certainly aren't scared of water, that's for sure

[broken seal]

We don’t even know if they are fruits. Or if they are, if it’s individual fruits

[prisma forum]

they are most likely powers given by Imu

[drowsy gate]

I believe Imu ate the Aku Aku no mi, and it would be sad actually, since fruits are born from dreams, we could only except that a soul that only knew suffering in her life would dream to hurt everyone

[wild vector]

Ok what I meant was people are saying he's a myth in the sense that he didn't exist.

90% of the fan base thinks Nika never existed.

Vegapunks flame would be a psuedo mother flame if the way it's created was different.

[remote silo]

An Imu her believer 🧎‍♂️

[prisma forum]

maybe but seeing odas's love for mythical zoans recently imu probably has the fruit of God of whatever

[drowsy gate]

Im pretty sure its a little prince, a boy

[wild vector]

There's literally nothing suggesting Imu is child.

[remote silo]

He probably existed like Jesus did. Real people who became myths. Nika was probably also more than one person, hence all the confusion about Nika's motives. And stories as the centuries went on probably created the Nika we seemingly know today, first manifest in Joyboy

[broken seal]

Nothing in the story indicates the mother flame on egghead was anything short of the real deal. Not like the artificial devil fruits

[drowsy gate]

His height lol

[remote silo]

I've been on the Imu took over a body train since the beginning. We also have seen an immortal child in the story and she's probably one of the most sadistic and evil characters lol

[prisma forum]

idk japanese but i heard his manners of talks remains like a annoying child or something like this

[drowsy gate]

If you look closely when he transforms against Sabo, his hands look like one of a frog, considering the fact that he looks like he loves Lili, its probably the thing with the frog prince waiting his princess

[wild vector]

supposed or purporting to be but not really so; false; not genuine.
"pseudonym"
2.
resembling or imitating.

I'm not saying it's fake. I'm seeing vegapunk probably used alternative means to create what functions as the same thing.

Ie smiley isn't a logia type. But he functions as a PSUEDO LOGIA because he was poison.

[wild vector]

His manner of speaking and mannerisms do not look like a child.

[drowsy gate]

Cause its Mu who is speaking, not Imu

[wild vector]

I feel like you just say a lot of things that don't make much sense.

Maybe get a reread in to refresh yourself.

[drowsy gate]

You didnt know that ? Imu refers to himself as ''Mu'' lol

[wild vector]

That doesn't mean he has 2 separate personalities.

[drowsy gate]

If the elders call him Imu, and Cobra said that a king named like that existed but its probably ''just a coincidence'' but then he refers to himself as Mu wich means void, dont you think that Imu was someone, that got possesed by this Mu thing ?

[wild vector]

The just a coincidence part is in reference to there being a king named Imu nerona.

Which cobra recognized the name. This is to imply they are the same person and he has been living since the void century.

Referring to himself as a shortened version of his own name doesn't indicate there are two separate personalities.

Please get a reread in, you need a refresher.

[drowsy gate]

And thats exactly where youre getting baited lol, there is a reason Oda named him Imu like, its just a name, but the most important part is the ''Mu'' thing wich means void, why would he give such a close name to something so strange ?

[wild vector]

That doesn't imply a second personality.

[drowsy gate]

I never said a second personality, i said he was possesed by this Mu thing

Wich would be Funny because what Luffy does ? Freeing people lol

If you think about it Luffy never killed someone, so theres a chance Imu end up getting freed by Luffy, then everyone just have to fight this gigantic ''Mu'' thing that we see to the far left of the elbaf text

[wild vector]

There's still nothing suggesting "mu" is an entity personality etc.

I hate when people form theories they think are "fun". Nothing remotely suggesting this to be the case.

[drowsy gate]

Bro that's the point of theories lol, and we can discuss my point and i will prove you im right lol

[wild vector]

The point of theories is to guess what's actually possible and probable.

What you are saying has no evidence and amounts to fan fiction.

[drowsy gate]

Okay then hear me out : If you believe Imu is the thing we see on the far left of the Elbaf text, who is the crowned person on the top of Zunesha near the tree ?

[wild vector]

Given that zunesha did some kind of crime. It's possible the crowned figure is Imu or Lily.

[drowsy gate]

But if it was Imu, then whats the gigantic thing on the far left ?

[wild vector]

We have already seen Imus abilities to demonify people.

Oars has some kind of connection to all this. So it could be an ancient giant turned demon.

[drowsy gate]

Given the fact its not using any weapon, you believe the Motherflame on its hand would just be given to a random giant lol ?

And if we go that way, that would mean that Imu is literally not the final enemy like i said then

[wild vector]

I believe we don't know enough to answer that question.

[drowsy gate]

Well thats what im saying, Imu is definitely not the final enemy, and i believe it was the enemy of Nika 3000 years ago, wich ended up possesing the prince Imu

[wild vector]

See how you tried to make that make sense? You didn't use actual narrative support. It's just your own idea to further support another idea.

[raw scarab]

imu or blackbeard. Imu may have went to the top of the redline to gain power/bring final end to the ancient kingdom. Zunesha was able to transport him directly there given Zunesha is as tall as the redline.

[drowsy gate]

I actually do have a narrative support, if Luffy's nemesis is Teach, Roger is Xebec, Joyboy is Davy Jones, then Nika probably had one aswell

[wild vector]

That's speculation not narrative support.

The idea that there's some eternal entity controlling Imu is just silly head cannon.

[drowsy gate]

Well what i think is, Luffy beating Imu will free him from ''Mu'' and Teach will be the one that end up using it with his 2 devil fruits, it would be the final form of it, we know his Yami Yami can absorb light aswell so it wouldnt be surprising if he can control the motherflame freelly

[raw scarab]

I have similar views, though I don't see Imu has really under mind control. My theory for awhile now is Imu is a child. It would fit how terrible childhood can really shape a persons viewpoint. Hody, Loki, blackbeard...ect. I think Imu may have created the last devil fruit, and destroyed the sun so nobody else could dream up a fruit to beat them.

[drowsy gate]

I definitely think he's either a kid or a little prince aswell

[drowsy gate]

But whats the explanation of him talking to himself third person then ?

[raw scarab]

consider the blurb on Hina in the one piece wiki:

It might a trait that Imu had held ever since young childhood, and if in a poor upbringing, never developed out of

[drowsy gate]

But the thing is he only does that when speaking of Mu tho, Hina does it on a basis

[drowsy gate]

You don't understand what im saying, if it was the same case he would refer to himself as IMU and not MU, like, Hina doesnt say ''Na'' or ''Hi'' lmao

It may sound subtle to you but thats exactly what Oda like to do

[wild vector]

Shakky>shukuyaku. Mu>imu

[drowsy gate]

Except Mu actually means something in japanese lmfao

[raw scarab]

number of reasons. Speculation is Imu can be a childish edge lord, and referring themselves to effectively 'nothingness' is cool. https://thelibraryofohara.com/2023/06/04/chapter-secrets-chapter-1085-in-depth-analysis/

[wild vector]

Lmfao you just are doubling down because you want your interpretation to happen.

[drowsy gate]

Well i don't think its just cause its ''cool'' but we'll see

[raw scarab]

yeah, you might be right. I am just giving you what native speakers I have seen say on the topic. Some good youtube channels on this as well.

[broken seal]

No that’s true. Mu means void. It’s a pun if nothing else

[drowsy gate]

And i think you think way too much like a robot instead of trying to see clear things thats just in front of your eyes

[wild vector]

I'm not saying it's not true. I'm saying he's really digging deep into the "mu is a separate personality in control of Imu"

[drowsy gate]

But that shit makes sense bro LMAO stop trying to clown this when its a valid point

[wild vector]

It really doesn't. All of this is to justify why you think Imu is short and thus a child.

[drowsy gate]

Imu literally is just a name, of the king 800 years ago, and theres a reason Cobra said ''it may be a coincidence'' because YES, the thing we see, is Imu, the king, but the Mu thing is something else that controls him

[broken seal]

I’m not going to weigh in too deep here except to say the Imu child connection is real. I’m more leaning that it’s more thematic than literal, but it shouldn’t be discounted wholesale

[wild vector]

This kinda weighing in just helps him try to validify his thoughts about mu.

If Imu is already confirmed to have been a king, the likelihood of him having been a child is just extremely low.

It's more than likely merely thematic. The English translation don't come off that way like it's trying to hint he's a child. It only gives very olden times use of language.

[drowsy gate]

What if he's the son of Imu ? Taking his name ? You never think deep lol

[wild vector]

I have no issues thinking deep. Bro don't @ me when you couldn't understand how cindry and the shadow controlling her were different.

[drowsy gate]

The shadows of Moria keep the dead's personality, all i said was if Hogbak was using her own shadow, its normal that Cindry doesnt ''listen'' commands since her personnality alive was ''pure''

[wild vector]

This is wrong. It has nothing to do with "purity".

[drowsy gate]

See, you dont get it again, if all Cindry did was cleaning dishes alive, how is her shadow gonna be a fighter ??

[broken seal]

Yeah I don’t think “Mu” is some separate entity. It’s an adopted pronoun which gives Imu a childish characteristic

[wild vector]

Don't project on me. You are the one who clearly doesn't get it.

Cindry was an actress.

The shadow controlling her was a maid. The breaking dishes part was the maids shadow. So it's clear the personality came from the shadow.

Cindry was the body and the dead actress. She was the one who resisted the effects of the shadows control despite having been long dead.

You keep trying to explain it with a completely wrong interpretation because you don't understand. You don't even properly remember the details.

[raw scarab]

I get the impression that in a lot of ways Imu is going to be like Doflomingo in their youth. Zunisha was used to return Imu to the redline potentially. For whatever reason Imu was effectively dismissed from ancient kingdom. While the ancient alliance may have had some good reasons for the conflict, I think the conflict ended with Imu establishing his desire and vengeance on the redline. Someone who wanted the world.

[drowsy gate]

So was the maid was a fighter alive ? lmao

[wild vector]

Whether or not she was a fighter is irrelevant. The maids personality was clearly following commands.

I really don't get how that's hard to understand.

[broken seal]

There could be something with Mu and the Kanji for Imu’s name being read as Buddha. In zen there are famous koans such as a student asking “does a dog have Buddha nature” to which the master answers “Mu”

[drowsy gate]

Its not irrelevant, shadows keep the person's personality Brook said it, you can't just ''ignore'' that

[wild vector]

You keep trying to say it's the shadow that began to resist control. It's not. The panels and text clearly imply the actual cindry was resisting.

But you don't want to accept that because it pokes a huge hole in your buccaneer theory.

[drowsy gate]

Thats possible, i don"t see why Oda would give him such a close name to it if not to try to be subtle with it, making us think that ''oh its just a shortening cause its cool!''

[drowsy gate]

No actually i reconsidered the buccaneer theory after that cause im not a kid and i came here to re-learn things i forgot, i just still don't think the shadow thing and the fact Kuma still has counsciousness is a 100% same thing, but i definitely reconsidered it

Like even if Cindry still had her own will, at the end of the day she still ''listenned'', while Kuma just seem to be completely free, so its still possible that Buccanneers are way harder to control

[wild vector]

The point was to show that if the original bodys will is strong enough, they can take control.

Heavily reinforced by ryuuma and captain John. So when moria eventually returns this will probably be a huge deal.

Every time I get to this point, I always think Luffy actually wanted to pick foxy.

He accepted the challenge to get revenge for foxy hurting the horse. So if Luffy wanted to pick foxy, he would have to forget about him hurting the horse.

Luffy just really liked his beam.

With this in mind and the fact that slowpoke photons are undiscovered make me believe he is going to return. And eventually have an interaction with a vegapunk.

However this would beg the question where he would go.

Since ideo is a boxer and foxy was a boxer, I think joining the ideo pirates is a natural fit.

The ideo pirates currently only have 4 members. Foxy currently only has 3 members left.

So we could potentially get foxy, Hamburg, and Porsche joining the ideo pirates after losing a Davy back fight.

There isn't much evidence that doesn't rely on speculation. However I think the biggest supporting hint is the gag character pattern.

Villains with a gag are often seen to become a support character or come back in some way shape or form.

Ie Vivi(villain with a gag), wapol, Mr 2, Mr 3, buggy, gedatsu, etc.

This line of thinking also leads me to believe Magellan could join cross guild(if they end up invading impeldown).

[raw laurel]

https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/s/2A3MjfR26Q

[dusky acorn]

Would it be OK by you to write a summary of your theory via text in this channel? Or even copy-paste. Not everyone is keen on Reddit, and we just prefer all theories in here to be on an equal field of being immediately interactive

I read the theory in any case, and I personally enjoy the idea of Dragon pulling a switcheroo with Shanks and a treasure chest prize of God Valley that contained his future devil fruit power. It both explains how Shanks was uncovered within a treasure chest to the Roger Pirates and how Dragon came across such a powerful ability

I like the idea of Garp owing Roger a favour when it comes to their sons due to Roger potentially saving Dragon’s life from Garling, but I don’t think the scene necessarily has to take place at the shore by the Oro Jackson. Just a minor critique, but Roger and gang seem a bit far from there atp. This kind of scene could even happen around where Rayleigh and Shakky are right now

[raw laurel]

Fair enough since this is the Reddit discord server I figured everyone here would be on Reddit.

[fathom saddle]

i have a theory that the 5 elders devil fruits are linked to joyboys devil fruit (human human fruit model nika) as they are on the same level of dangrous and strong

[raw laurel]

I believe maffey will return shamrock to the celestial dragon who was suppose to be looking after the kids but then this person only sees 1 child and asks about the other and maffey confused will ask what second child and she thought there was only one.

That’s when garling shows up and notices they lost the other kid.

In a rage he cuts them both down and goes out to find his son.

We see dragon looking for a way to escape when garling tracks him down.

While trying to run he trips over a treasure chest outside the oro Jackson in a panic he opens the chest and takes out a devil fruit then places shanks inside.

Garling sees him and thinks he’s stealing their prizes.

In a rage dragon will yell at garling then yell at all the other marines including Garp for their role in this massacre how this isn’t justice and goes against everything he was raised to believe about the wg. We see Garp looking ashamed.

garling goes to kill dragon as dragon prepares to accept his death, roger will step in and block the attack mimicking the scene with Koby and akainu in marinford.

I think this goes into why Garp took ace as he owes roger a life dept for saving his son.

I think Garp also did this to protect the other roger pirates when they retired

In one scene we see a marine tell Garp they saw Rayleigh on sabaody and Garp did everything he could to play it off and get the marine to drop the investigation and let Garp handle it and more importantly make sure he doesn’t tell anyone else Rayleigh is on sabaody.

[raw laurel]

Where it takes place doesn’t really matter as long as it’s where a chest is so dragon can place the baby inside of it

[solemn sable]

Stupid theory number 2 (and someone else probably had the same idea before me):
Small world and land reclamation.

I usually see the planet where One Piece takes place treated as very large. It ranges from sometimes the size of Earth, to the size of Jovian planets, and even almost the diameter of the Sun, according to the VSBattle Wiki?... (wtf)

But I honestly don't think the blue planet is that big; on the contrary, I even feel like it could be smaller than Earth itself.

• Marco suggests that there are at least 20 million islands. Although this comment might carry more weight compared to those made by other characters in the early days of One Piece, it should still be taken with a grain of salt. Assuming there are no global maps or anything similar, it means that, within the world of One Piece, there is no way to know how many islands actually exist. Even so, it can be assumed that they exist in the millions. The Earth has anywhere from hundreds of thousands to almost a million islands, and there would possibly be more if not for the fact that the vast majority of landmasses are concentrated on the already known continents, while One Piece only has the Red Line as the only functional continent, and that thing is a line of land of God knows how many kilometers wide.
• The islands don't seem to be that far from each other in general; it seems that, if possible, someone could walk on foot from island to island in a matter of days or a little over a week, if not a little more than that. The islands themselves don't seem to be very large, compared to the buildings usually shown. It seems that the most common ones are only hundreds of meters to a few kilometers long, while the largest are a few tens of kilometers, and virtually none are hundreds of kilometers long.

Now, onto some islands. The kingdom of Alabasta has a population of ten million (at least two years ago), which is similar to real-life countries like Honduras or the United Arab Emirates, which are about 600-700 km long, in contrast to the several thousand km dimensions I see suggested. That would put Alabasta as one of the few islands that are hundreds of km in size in my estimation. One could argue it's bigger since the largest river in Alabasta is 50 km wide, but again, that was in an early One Piece, so the sizes could be smaller. And it's not the first time something's been downsized, as Zunesha is currently 2 km tall, a tenth as tall as it was originally listed.
I don't feel that islands are huge, and they don't really need to be thousands or hundreds of miles across to be able to host heartwarming stories. Take for example the island of Sodor from The Railway Series/Thomas & Friends franchise, the island has railways hundreds and hundreds of miles long, large cities, industrial estates, beaches and a whole lot of other stuff, and yet the island is only 62 miles long by 51 miles wide (don't ask me how I know that), it sounds big but compared to the other British Isles that surround it, it's simply dwarfed.

My other (apparent) point in favor is the Moon, which is much smaller than its real-world counterpart, but it seems to look as large as its sister in the real cosmos, so it should be much closer, and consequently its orbit would be smaller, and possibly the blue planet from One Piece should be proportionally smaller.
So... to conclude with my not-so much-a-theory-but-a-headcanon-with-sources-pulled-from-my-ass theory...
The world of One Piece isn't that big, very possibly between Venus and Mars in size, which on its surface houses millions of islands separated by tens of kilometers on average. The most common islands are a few kilometers long, while the largest (and much less numerous) are tens to almost hundreds of kilometers at their largest points, with the only real continent being a landmass that extends from north to south across the entire planet like a ring on a finger.

Ah yeah... I was also going to talk about my idea of ​​land reclamation in the One Piece world... but I think I've already said too much shit :v

[remote silo]

same! I’ve reconfigured or dropped entire theories after joining here and getting corrected. It’s great!

[grizzled smelt]

Theory: "God" Devil Fruits are the process of turning a Devil Fruit into a Mythical Zoan from an ancient user's valor and legendary actions.

Take the Mythical Zoan: Hito-Hito no Mi, Model: "Nika."

My theory is that it was indeed a Gomu-Gomu no Mi as it was without any special characteristics beyond as it was. An ancient user (like named Nika) used this power to liberate and entertain those around him.

As he continued to make a name for himself, Nika slowly changed and the world believed him as an ancient god of the sun that will liberate the world with a new dawn.

Once enough people believe the user of the fruit to be considered as a "god," the Devil Fruit will then change into a Mythical Zoan fruit.

Ridiculous Prediction: Based on this mechanism, I'm convinced that through the sheer number of fans Buggy has, his Bara-Bara no Mi will be turned into a "god" fruit. Probably after Buggy's name. The Mythical Zoan: Hito-Hito no Mi, Model: "Buggy".

[raw laurel]

I did this video with a YouTuber named m4rth

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8unMWR1EQY

[iron current]

usually when people post videos in this channel they talk a bit about what the video is about, like yeah we can see the title but maybe a short description of the theory

[raw laurel]

Thanks I’m new here.

[raw laurel]

I believe one piece has a lot of connections to Irish mythology and believe there are 2 branches of the D clan. The joyboy clan and the Davy clan and when they come together they form the O clan.

The O clan is a prophesied person who carries both traits who will show up one day to continue what joyboy and Davy jones started

@iron current

[iron current]

interesting

[raw laurel]

And the name Ohara might be reference to the o’hara family in Ireland where it’s believed they are descendants of the Irish sun god lugh

[remote silo]

This is super neat. Any chance that on top of the O, is the X symbol part of any of that mythology as well?

[raw laurel]

There is no x in the Irish mythos

[remote silo]

I wanted to talk for a moment about Tontattas (and Usopp). I won't be surprised to hear this is already a fan theory for ages.

General Observations

Tontattas wear goofy hats, they are quick to believe, very child-like in behavior, and don't seem to understand the very concept of lying. Usopp, a goofy hat wearer, is known as a liar, but interestingly once he was in proximity of Luffy, his "lies" have started all coming true

We have also seen Tontattas do miracles. Their princess on Dressrosa was tapping into her own life source in order to heal the wounded in the land below. Which sounds awfully familiar to someone else we hold near and dear.

Also we know that they came from another world, one who "lost its resources"

What are Lies Even

It's super curious to me that Tontattas seem oblivious to even the rudimentary concept of lying. My opinion is that it's the most important factor when considering who the Tontatta are.

Tontattas are a clan of storytellers. Weaving tales is inherently a liar's task, after all. And I think that is the key to everything

Missing Power Source

My theory: Tontattas don't lie,

So what does this mean?

1. Tontattas had access to tech that worked with their strengths and shortcomings
2. When near this power source, a Tontatta can make miracles happen
3. Luffy is currently acting as a weak battery when around the Tontatta clan

• Luffy has always, curiously, been a Miracle Man

I think that once the motherflame is active, if any tontattas are nearby, we'll quickly learn why they don't understand lies. When they can say something into existence, what even is a lie?

I think the Tontatta clan is the type of tribe that loves sitting around the campfire, having lots of food, and telling wild stories to each other

[remote silo]

damn. I wonder where that comes from. Cause the O and X symbols have been there from the start, and Luffy makes the X shape often with his body. The One Piece title card is an X inside the O. Wonder if it's a blend from some other mythology. Or just a nod to tic tac toe I dunno

[raw laurel]

Well in Japan O and X are marks for school work.

O means correct x means wrong

[remote silo]

Hungry Power Source

What if the reason they had to find a new planet is that this tech they created is also something monstrously hungry. There's no free lunch, so the reason they ran out of resources is because the Motherflame needs to be constantly fed in exchange for its godlike technological powers.

This is starting to sound a lot more like Luffy and other Joyboy candidates. Insatiably hungry, bottomless pit, but capable of marvels at every turn.

Luffy acting as a weak battery for Tontattas brings us back to silly hat man, Usopp

God Usopp

While I don't think Usopp is the only one, he is currently the only one I think has clear links to the Tontatta clan.

1. Long nose
2. Unquenchable storyteller
3. Childlike behavior

Usopp is super important for this theory. And he helps explain the types of miracles we start to see in One Piece, according to this theory. When he's around Luffy, his lies come true, the crew defy the odds no matter how death defying, and while he's silly 90% if the time, he locks in when it really matters and gets the job done. This is something we've seen the Tontattas exhibit as well.

Does Imu Wear a Silly Hat?

Imu being a childlike Tontatta who wants the Motherflame all for themselves could kinda make sense. If one Tontatta controlled it alone, they could probably shape the world to their liking forever. They've had to develop an entire authoritarian regime just to replicate some of this power, in the absence of the Motherflame.

[remote silo]

truuu. I just find it interesting how intertwined both symbols are. Luffy would be pretty bad at tests

[copper hare]

By time of Final War (My Predicted level of strengths for Strawhats):
Luffy will equal to Shanks
Zoro will equal to Mihawk
Sanji will equal to Akainu
Jimbei will equal to Kizaru
Nico Robin will equal to Kuzan
Ussop will equal to Yassop
Nami will equal to Enel

[idle temple]

I think Imu might actually be someone from the Void Century, maybe even a survivor of the royal family we’ve never seen. In the manga, they’re always hiding their face and even took over Gunko’s body in Elbaf, which shows they have powers way beyond normal humans. They know things even the Celestial Dragons don’t, and that makes me think they’re connected to the D. clan and Joy Boy somehow. If that’s true, everything about the World Government and the final war could tie back to Imu and the secrets of that lost century.

[reef bay]

SPOILERS FOR CURRENT MANGA ARC 🚨🚨🚨what if shanks was the baby that figarland wound up keeping. This could be a crazy switch up by oda and i could totally see it. Shamrock returns somehow, this is only a half-baked theory. This also could be a big Mihawk reveal. His eyes always looked similar to imu’s. Maybe this means that shanks and mihawk grew up as rivals together in mariejois

[raw laurel]

I hope not it just seems like a twist for twist sake

[rough storm]

I have this theory for a long time now that Nami's father is figarland and what happenned in oykot kingdom was probably the same as what happen in god valley about the "rabbit hunt". and belle mere is what dragon to shanks. reason why i said nami is probably royalty because oda has been drawing nami since the earliest volume of her wearing a crown kinda hinting that maybe she is of royal blood.

[brisk jay]

108 = ireha
<---------- Beginning
908 = kureha
----------> Ending
they are antipodes
certainly she is an opposition of GOvernment
this "X" is the opposite of "O" from Government flag

if the Mother Flame is the beginning for humanity
Kureha is the end of something or viceversa

[brisk jay]

thats a modern thing

[tulip terrace]

My theory is that Garp, Roger and Xebec are Sake brothers. Because Garp and Roger had a very intense rivalry and Xebec too. This makes me think that they are Sake like Luffy, Ace and Sabo... with Sabo representing Xebec who both want to change the world through a revolution, Ace and Garp, with both wanting justice in a way. And of course Luffy and Roger both wanting to be the pirate kings and have big dreams.

[tulip terrace]

ok, this is going too far.

[raw laurel]

I have the same theory

[tulip terrace]

Like, that makes sense, right?

[raw laurel]

Not just that I think they served under the same captain in youth

[tulip terrace]

hmmmm then I already have my doubts...

[raw laurel]

I believe they served under Louis arnote

[brisk jay]

far? i just mean she doesnt allign with government nothing more

[iron current]

!theories

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[tulip terrace]

The World Government doesn't know One Piece is in Laugh Tale.

Oda already said that Akainu could reach Laugh Tale in a year if he wanted, but he didn't, and he didn't go because he doesn't know what's there.

[remote silo]

Doctorine! I think about her character often trying to figure her out. Love this. Thank you

[cold thistle]

noland theory: insert title here

so i’d just like to lead this off by saying this is by no means a well-constructed or even a well-thought-out theory. in fact, i barely have any panels i can refer to as evidence for my claims (though this is mostly because so few panels about noland exist at all lol). this entire line of thinking started for me a few months ago when i was rereading skypiea (here’s the discussion that led me down this path in the first place: #manga message), and upon reading i noticed this section of the backstory, right before noland’s execution:

on its own, this is just the literal conclusion of noland’s story, and we know the king/future historians would write books that slander his name for centuries, while certain descendants of that time would remember noland for the man he is. however, i’d like to hone in on the question of “why would a total stranger go out of their way to lie in order to execute noland?” clearly, this man is an audience plant by some malicious force against noland, but who would want him executed? from my point of view, it doesn’t make sense for the king of lvneel, any of his crewmates, or any of the people he met on his journey to lie about him, as we can see he was renowned as both a successful adventurer/admiral and as a very kind and friendly person:

(clearly there are probably more examples of noland affecting the lives of those he met, but a) we don’t know about them, and b) i really really really love noland and kalgara’s goodbye, so forgive me for being both insufficient and inefficient with my evidence)

so (and this is where i really put on my tinfoil hat) the conclusion i’m inevitably left to draw is that noland’s discoveries are intentionally being suppressed by… the world government. there could be any number of reasons for this, either covering up the existence of sky islands, or the treasure of shandora itself, or even specifically the poneglyph that they showed noland. again, there don’t really exist any panels that justify my theory here, which is why most of my speculation will peter out here, but if i were to stake my claim and completely blindly guess at a reason for the world government stepping in, it would probably have something to do with curbing the common people’s ability to travel.

this has more to do with a larger theory that i may write out at some point, but i’ll suffice to say this time that i suspect the rising sea levels/division of the world into four seas is a tool maliciously used by the world government to maintain a sense of control or suppression of people, as people will be much more likely to wrest back control against the government if they’re more easily able to band together as a larger unfractured population. this idea of course begets a larger theory, and most of my evidence of this claim has less to do with direct manga panels and more to do with general narrative observations and philosophical musings, so i may take a very long time before coming back to this idea.

that said, my tldr is this: i don’t think we’re done learning about noland by any means, and i think noland's impact on the story reaches way way way further up the chain of command than what we've been let on about.

[edgy cedar]

what if mihawk is always using haki

cause think about it his sword is always black and is said to be the strongest swordsman in their current time. cant back it up ye but we need more ideas

[raw laurel]

He made his sword a black blade

[bright pollen]

what came to my mind is that Noland could've been on the WG's radar long before Shandora. Noland through his adventures might've gotten uncomfortably close to the void century. But the WG couldn't just kill him as that still leaves his stories. Those could inspire someone else to continue his work. So when the WG heard about the Shandora incident, they knew they had a opportunity to put an end to the whole thing by labeling Noland a liar and then killing him. Now Noland is gone and more importantly everything Noland discovered is considered a lie

[cold thistle]

i mean, the most plausible scenario for this is that the kingdom of lvneel seems to be at least some sort of affluent, so they're probably a member nation of the world government to begin with. clearly they're able to sway some sort of influence with the king in order to get him to execute one of their most decorated and respected admirals just like that, at the very least. (in fact, upon briefly rereading, lvneel is DEFINITELY an affiliate nation - see the below panels directly naming the world government headquarters.) i suspect you're probably correct, and i posit the timeline is this:

noland discovers shandora, helps them etc, discovers the gold and the poneglyph, goes home through the holy land, reports EVERYTHING to the king of lvneel, including the existence of both the gold AND the poneglyph, the king reports this to the holy land through whatever means, five years pass (and within that time the knock up stream is manipulated to send shandora into the sky), after the time passes noland and the king venture out again, discover nothing, king follows some sort of script leaning to noland's execution

also, the line "we've finally gotten permission from [the world government] to enter the grand line" further supports my grander theory that the government's method of control is restricting people's ability to travel across the world

also, one last little tidbit that has very little to do with my theory, but i also saw this as i was rereading - notice something here in this panel of the flashback? (this is after shandora, but before he set out again)

[fringe hemlock]

Snod ik u hate me but I’ve done like a year of research and thinking on this particular subject and would love to share

[raw laurel]

Was this person banned

[raw laurel]

What are your thoughts.

First long post I made here.

https://discord.com/channels/164970986284777473/1424335904725532742

[raw laurel]

@iron current my next video.

I think akainu is rebelling and forming the Neo marines.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voRVCnRtfdw

[icy dagger]

I think I’ve settled on the gorosei/imus motivation