manga-theories

[iron loom]

That just came out

Check it out

[magic sundial]

ok

[iron loom]

Lemme find it in here

[magic sundial]

i need image perms

[iron loom]

This is the updated translation

The god of forest/rain we meet is Kashigami but I don’t think he created the fruits

Although maybe

He lived until about 400 years ago

But he wasn’t shown to use magic

[valid ibex]

Part 1/2

I believe the Gods (except for the sun god) are abstractions of events in the world. Example: Wrath of the sea god=flood.

The First World

The Earth burned in endless flame, And in the hearts of men burned with desire: Industrialization using mother flame and free men are satisfied

From whispered prayers, the sun god rose, beckoned by the enslaved who reached for the forbidden star: Enslaved peoples are silently angry and from those Nika (later known as sun god) leads a slave rebellion and tries to control the means of production. These revolutionary ideas spread from island to island

The God of the Land was enraged: There is some land phenomenon that can only be explained by some idea of a god doing it

With a serpent of fire, they cast the world into ruin: The land phenomenon is the red line coming about and wrapping itself around the earth (to a lay person it looks like a giant red snake running across the horizon). This is how the ruler (imu) will restrict the flow of information from island to island and stop the spread of revolutionary ideas.

Darkness Fell. Death Reigned. They would not meet again: Imu kills people with revolutionary sentiment, and never meets nika

[iron loom]

Yeah I agree with this

I don’t think they were literal gods

Beside nika

And the god of the sea

[brazen drift]

theres definitely a ton of history about the sea and sea god we are missing too

[valid ibex]

Part 2/2

The Second World (This is the void century)

A breath stirred in the Abyss: There are still revolutionary sentiments although extremely low key

The god of the forest wove their magic, nurturing its devils, while the sun lit the embers of war: Someone (Probably Imu) makes the devil fruits (people in the world just notice devilfruits and ascribe their creation to a god). Nika eats the nika nika fruit and starts gathering allies for war.

Those of the half-crescent and full moons dreamed: These are the samurai from wano and mink that will ally with Nika

Yet the ones who slew the sun defied themselves, evoking the wrath of the sea god: The kings armies that went against nika ultimately were betrayed when imu flooded the world

They would not meet again: Nika still will not have met Nika

The Thirld World

Chaos reigns; the world drifts in a void: General lawlessness and people start to forget what happened before

Yet time does not erase the memory of the promised day: There will be a day where Nika and Imu clash

Its shadow looms as the voice of the half moon echoes through the ages, and once more, the sun god shall rise- laughing, dancing, guiding the world to its final act: Toki is from the void century and announces a prophecy that will free Wano also luffy becomes Sun God Nika

The sun is reborn. A new dawn will break. Surely, this time, they will meet: Luffy (sun god nika) and Imu will meet this time

[brazen drift]

could the wrath of the sea god be referring to the calm belts?

[last cypress]

i feel like the second world verse is mainly about devil fruits, the forest god creating them, the half and full moon people dreaming more of them into being, and the sea god cursing them after they destroyed the sun/energy source of the ancient kingdom. they would not meet again in this context might mean that after the curse df users are no longer able to swim in the sea

[iron loom]

I don’t believe Imu created the fruits

Why would he make a nika fruit

The god of land referenced is whomever was king during the first world

[brazen drift]

a tyrannical ruler

[iron loom]

Half crescent could definitely be the people of Wano as that is their common brandish

[brazen drift]

god of sea and sun grew the tree so it made fruits that had the manifestations of dreamers

[iron loom]

and the minks being the full moon as that is how they get their power

[magic sundial]

imu didnt create the fruits

the fruits are the manifestation of human desires

[iron loom]

I think the moon reflecting the sun has some symbolic meanings here

[brazen drift]

i think half moon echoing through the ages HAS to be referring to the will of D we first learn about it with the family heritage

[magic sundial]

maybe theres a moon god?

[iron loom]

We never met a moon god

[magic sundial]

NAMI MOON GOD CONFIRMED?

jk

[iron loom]

Enel mentioned the potential of a god on the moon

[brazen drift]

the moon reflects the sun so

[valid ibex]

I think it's toki traveling through time

[magic sundial]

we never meet one but that doesnt mean there isnt one

[iron loom]

Exactly

[magic sundial]

for all we know nika could have a brother

[iron loom]

We’ve never met the sea god either

I don’t think we will

I don’t think they will be a physical character

[magic sundial]

maybe the moon god is the evil one

the moon god is imu?

[iron loom]

Imu is the god of earth

[magic sundial]

the moon god wants to enslave the people and nika wants to free the people

[iron loom]

God of land

[magic sundial]

hwo u know that

[iron loom]

The god of earth was enraged at the worship of the sun god

The god of earth is shown to be a dark silhouette with a crown

In the mural

Maybe not Imu himself but an ancestor

Same situation as Luffy

With joyboy

[magic sundial]

or imu is a reincarnation

like luffy is

[iron loom]

Yeah

Imu is responsible for the holy knights powers

[magic sundial]

makes sense

[iron loom]

And the gurosei

[magic sundial]

then who would be the sea god?

[iron loom]

So idk if imu has a fruit

I assume he does

[iron loom]

We don’t meet the sea god

Poseidon is not the god of the sea in this story

[magic sundial]

thats why i said who would it be tho

[iron loom]

Yeah idk

[magic sundial]

we meat alot of characters

[iron loom]

I don’t think it’s a character

[magic sundial]

maybe the sea god is nikas brother

because nika seems to have alot of connection to the sea

[iron loom]

Whoever the sea god is they are directly connected with the god of forest

[magic sundial]

like his very ship being at fishman island

[iron loom]

Why the god of sea specifically is responsible for the rejection of the fruits

Is very interesting

[magic sundial]

you know the future sigh shanks has?

maybe the sea god had like a better version of it

[iron loom]

His observation haki

Yes

[magic sundial]

and could sea into the future

[iron loom]

idk maybe

I doubt it

[magic sundial]

so maybe he knew people would be like

[iron loom]

Once we find out who this god of forest character is

[magic sundial]

terrible

[iron loom]

We can start connecting the dots

To the god of sea

[magic sundial]

maybe the sea god made a promise to nika

to keep his ship safe until he returns

[iron loom]

I don’t think so

Maybe

Actually yeah maybe

[magic sundial]

it would make sense tho

[iron loom]

Because once the ones who slewed the god defied themselves

That’s when the sea god became angry

[magic sundial]

the amount of connection to nika and the sea that we see is insane

[iron loom]

so nika and the sea god could have connection

[last cypress]

df users destoyed the sun, and enraged the sea god

[magic sundial]

nika and the sea god were probably very close friends or brothers

[iron loom]

why do does the sea reject fruit

Very interesting

[magic sundial]

maybe because they turned nika into one

after they kill nika the enslaved wished him back to free the people but he returned as a df so maybe the sea god knew this and rejected df's

but idk

[iron loom]

I don’t think Nika was a physical person

And the imagery depicted of nika is actually joyboy

[magic sundial]

nika is person

we sea what nika looks like

and what joyboy looks like

nika has clouds around him like luffy

or no that was joiboi

and nika weilds the sword an dsheild

luffy is both of them

[iron loom]

I think nika can be compared to the Christian god, he wasn’t a physical person

[magic sundial]

i think hes more like the greek gods

[iron loom]

Or atleast he wasn’t active during the first world

He manifested like a god

[magic sundial]

considering there was multile

[iron loom]

He wasn’t a human or anything

[magic sundial]

or maybe he can choose

[iron loom]

Yeah potentially

[magic sundial]

since his power is to fight however he wants

[iron loom]

He wasn’t born naturally into the world

[magic sundial]

he can choose to fight like a god or fight like a human

[iron loom]

I think the spear and shield we see is joyboy specifically

[magic sundial]

yeah that would make more sense

[iron loom]

They referred to joyboy as nika

[magic sundial]

thats like an olden perspective tho

[iron loom]

Yeah

[magic sundial]

they only reffered to him as nika because he has his powers

[iron loom]

Yes

[magic sundial]

and the people worshipped nika

so it would make sense why they call him nika

[iron loom]

Yes originally the people worshipped nika

Joyboy became the Warrior of Liberation

[magic sundial]

basically his goal is to free the people

right?

[iron loom]

yeah

Similarly to rengokus zoan

[magic sundial]

and luffys dream is to be the free-est

[iron loom]

I don’t believe budddah was around

[magic sundial]

so maybe imu will try to take away luffys freedom

[iron loom]

Yeah his dream is to free the world

To connect the seas

[magic sundial]

what iff

laughtale is

all the islands combined

[torpid pine]

we agree that nika is 1st world joyboy 2nd and luffy 3rd ?

[magic sundial]

i guess

[iron loom]

Kind of

Joyboy is the nika we see on the mural fighting imu

During world 3

[magic sundial]

exactly

so

luffy is like

world 4

[iron loom]

Nah

OP still on World 3

We only had 2 resets

[magic sundial]

oh yeah

[ivory urchin]

Do you guys feel like Oda has been answering mysteries or presenting more lately

[magic sundial]

so

[magic sundial]

he has too

one piece is ending soon

[iron loom]

He’s connecting the puzzle pieces

[magic sundial]

there is a great war coming

[iron loom]

The “One Piece” of the puzzle to “tie” it all together

[ivory urchin]

It’s kinda sad

[iron loom]

We still have like 5-6 years in the manga to go

[magic sundial]

hey

[last cypress]

it'll be at least 5 more years

[magic sundial]

remember thay one island that is a circle?

[last cypress]

probably more

[torpid pine]

mm its said that third world refers to present day

[iron loom]

I’m sure the manga is gonna run for another 200-300 chapters

[iron loom]

The 3rd world is the events of the void century into today

[magic sundial]

u guys remember that one island that is a perfect circle

[last cypress]

yea the depictions are world 2

[iron loom]

Present day One Piece is still world 3

[magic sundial]

and the skull shaped island that is missing an eye?

what if

[torpid pine]

mmm

[iron loom]

Joyboy lived from World 2 into World 3

[ivory urchin]

What are your thoughts on the first world? What the hell happened before the void century era

[magic sundial]

that perfectly circular island is the missing eye

what if the one piece IS laugh tale

[ivory urchin]

Do you think the 100 year void is the second world? Or does it predate the void century

[iron loom]

Like the story of Icarus, humanity flew to close to the sun and the oppressed world began to worship a god to free them

Which angered the king and used the world serpent to split the world in half

Splitting the oceans into 4

[magic sundial]

so i think the entiry of the void century was just war

[iron loom]

Yes

[magic sundial]

thats why the water levels rose

[ivory urchin]

Who do you think is the world serpent?

[magic sundial]

the war shook the world

[iron loom]

I think the Red Line is the World Serpent

[magic sundial]

the world serpent is probably lokis pet

[iron loom]

Jomengandr from Greek Mythos

[magic sundial]

or lokis ancestors pet

yea

[iron loom]

If Loki has a connection to the world serpent that would be very cool

[ivory urchin]

Is the red line alive?

[magic sundial]

like jormendandr

[ivory urchin]

Or a devil fruit

[iron loom]

No

[magic sundial]

the red line is the world serpent?

[iron loom]

That’s my theory

[magic sundial]

that would be to only way

[iron loom]

if you look at the mural too

The serpent has x’s all over itself

And also scales

Which could be mountains

[magic sundial]

then what is the grand line

lokis ancestors staff?

maybe

[solar fossil]

I think the maybe the serpent of fire created the redline. Like it was a bunch of volcanoes going off in a line at once. This would also be what caused the world to be cast into darkness

[iron loom]

Idk what the grand line could be it inhabits the sea kings

Maybe it’s the land of the sea god

Separated from the ones who defied themselves

[magic sundial]

the earth god and the serpent both combined they powers to shroud the world in darkness

[solar fossil]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volcanic_winter

[torpid pine]

looks like they are harvesting mother flame

[magic sundial]

what if the serpent is underwater

since the sea levels rose it probably got buried underwater

[torpid pine]

the serpent could be an acient weapon

[magic sundial]

what about the dragon

at the top of the panel

than theres enels ship

[iron loom]

I believe zunesha must have sunk Noah or did something to it

[magic sundial]

she ate it

[iron loom]

Hence why joyboy punished him

[iron loom]

Yeah I’m curious about how it came out in good condition at the bottom of the ocean though

[magic sundial]

maybe the noah is sentient

and can heal itself

the way the fishman island people refer to the noah

is like the noah is a person

[torpid pine]

yh this mural looking like the future

[iron loom]

It will be the future yeah

Where Joyboy failed Luffy will succeed.

Thanks to Vegapunks exposure of the WG.

[torpid pine]

yee

[torpid pine]

and it seems like that dragon is good

[magic sundial]

maybe the story was told wrong by the people

what if zunesha was betraying imu and help nika by carrying the noah

so imu punished him

[torpid pine]

looks like imu is gonna raise the sea level and free the boat by accident or sum

[magic sundial]

alot of the stuff in the panel are silhouettes

and we know to never trust odas silhouettes

[brazen drift]

what causes the flood tho

[inner rivet]

Laboon 🐐

Laboon's ancestor

Lab D. Oon

[iron loom]

I wanna believe that the red line is the serpent and it will either be destroyed or moved

We will finally have the connection oceans of sanjis dream

[iron loom]

Zunesha is being punished by Joyboy

I believe he was on the side of Imu.

Potentially as a vessel of his kingdom

Idk

We see the slaves feeding the stars into what looks like a elephant

in the mural

I believe the center of Zou is where the energy was harnessed

During the great flood I believe zunesha consumed Noah and Sank it or something of that nature

[final bloom]

• we see a crown above zunesha

Should be imu

[iron loom]

Silhouette character with a crown

[final bloom]

hence the sin

[iron loom]

Who is our god of land

[final bloom]

Yea

I thought thats imu

[iron loom]

I assume he’s like Luffy where he inherited the power

Maybe not necessarily imu himself BUT

he was around during the void century

So it could definitely be him

Who is this God of Forest though? 🤔

[magic kayak]

Chap 470 1 page side story - moon people 🤯. Is there any waste page on Oda story at all . Now I regret of not remembering all of it, I thought it was all filler 😫. And here we go, 668 chapters later, it was there all the time 😱

[lean ore]

Luffy gunna go back in time and become the original joy boy

[fast goblet]

I'm not sure its an actual character or being, they also refer to the "God of Sea" but that probably just is referencing the flood that happened as a result of using the ancient weapons, and not an actual sea god. So the forest god might not be an actual thing either, but just them explaining how devil fruits came to exist

[magic kayak]

Skim through all first page side stories, you may find some god reference there

[iron loom]

The way it’s worded though it makes it seem they are more prevalent

The god of forest, wove their magic. Nurturing its devils.

Could just be interpretation of the manifestation that vegapunk said though.

However unlike Nika which I theorize wasn’t a physical person like Joyboy but the folk tale derived from the slaves harvesting the sun

I think the God of Forest could have actually been a character, the way they reference magic.

Hard to say.

[fast goblet]

Yeah I get what you mean, its hard to say bc we have one "god" who is at least a character in terms of having a DF ability (Nika) and another (the Sea God) who I'm almost certain isn't an actual character. God of the Forest and God of the Land/Serpent of Fire are up in the air for me

[iron loom]

God of Land I believe is what the giants call the king.

If we directly site the 1st world scan it states that the god of land was angered by the slaves worship

Serpent of Fire is definitely new. The old translation called it world serpent.

[fast goblet]

Serpent of fire seems like it could correlate to the "serpent soaked in blood" or whatever it was that Dorry and Brogy talked about back in Little Garden, probably something to do with the Red Line

[inner rivet]

better not be aramaki

[iron loom]

It’s Gaimon

[slim seal]

if the sun god was an individual dreamed up by people and made into reality then it's possible the god of the forest is a similar figure. Even Vegapunk's theory about the origin of devil fruits kind of lines up with that

[flint dirge]

#manga message

[raw scarab]

we know the mother flame is based on some ancient and more powerful form of energy (beyond just a power source, it was also a life giving force.) Vegapunk could not fully understand this energy that gave Emet life and power, though he tried to create a pale imitation of it with the mother flame.

[molten radish]

i think the serpent of fire is just a big machine. if we look at the “God of the Land” he’s the same size as everyone else. I think the god of the land was a regular king that used giant weapons

[wind saddle]

My current thought is that the god of the land is the winged beast above and the serpent is the thing on the side. The king I'm actually guessing might have been the first Nika

[molten radish]

i disagree since it looks like the people are slaves and nika was their savior. the king looks to be in charge of everything. in a super high tech society, who would be the God of the Land? a king in control of gigantic weapons

[wind saddle]

That's why I think he's actually trying to save them That's why he's near the ark. He trying to save them from the devastation of the earth god and the serpent

[viral drift]

Have we ruled out whether Zunisha is looking for Noah?

[ivory urchin]

After this chapter, it really makes me wonder what pluton is 🤔

[ivory urchin]

Is Zunisha actually looking for something or is he just wandering

[viral drift]

No clue, I need to do a full reread to remember the details tbh

[unique gull]

Looking at the mural, Joyboy fighting with the union of other races is such an absurd idea, they chalked it up to a child’s imagination. But that’s exactly what the straw hat fleet is, plus the allies with the Fishman, dressrosa, alabasta, skypia, water7, amazon lily, wano.

[copper hill]

I think Ripley's comment about a child's dream is more foreshadowing about Luffy's / Roger's dream: something about everyone getting along, possibly at a party with everyone in the world or something

[iron loom]

I think the voice of the half moon meeting with the sun god is the dream

the text of world 3

That is the dream

[pulsar salmon]

ifl the voice of the half moon is the voice of the d clan or kozuki clan who created the poneglyph

[iron loom]

Kozuki clan is the crescent moon I believe

[pulsar salmon]

i mean that could be what half moon means

[iron loom]

Yeah

Half of circle does make a D

[noble sluice]

I just watched a theory saying that Loki didn’t kill his father and that it was Garling but Loki wouldn’t be able to explain that because no one would believe him. It makes sense because the holy knights summoned inside the castle (Garling used his new powers that got given to him from Saturn, and he knew where to send them because he had been there before). Garling takes the fruit (luffys fruit). Shamrock says shanks returned back to the holy land. What if, during this time, shanks got intel on the fruit which is why he was able to locate the ship. This could be the “but he returned to the lower class world”. Shanks returns to Elbaf after Luffy has eaten it and tells everyone that Loki ate the fruit, which is why Loki hates shanks

Because if shanks admitted that he let the royal fruit be eaten by someone else they would lose faith in him

[raw scarab]

Ladon (Draco) - protecting the Golden apples of the sun tree, found within the evening star garden. (Greek mythology) Typically wrapped around the tree. Note the apples likely granted immortality.

In Mesoamerica lore, the evening star and sun was also related to the winged serpent god, Quetzalcōātl.

[regal dragon]

I am a anime only watcher someone spoil me something big

[chrome badger]

Vegapunk dies... we think

[regal dragon]

And how

No more I wanna read where should I start

[iron loom]

Dragons Zoan

[pure raven]

Just read the latest issue

[pure raven]

happy friday everyoneee ♥

[uncut widget]

is there any theory or explanations as to why gear 5 can rubberize the environments even though it's a myth zoan type?

[versed sonnet]

that the power of nika

Just like Marco is zoan but has some similar properties of logia because of the nature of Phoenix

[cunning holly]

Om chapter 774, the cover panel says that "jimbe lectures the sea god". Feels like a stretch but, do we know the parents or origins of Wadatsumi? Is the panel hinting towards a sentience of sorts with the sea and some relation to Wadatsumi, or is this just a wordplay

[gritty kite]

Most mythical zoans have some paramecia or logia like effects on top of the transformation. And they have been shown to work like awakened paramecia, like Marco who can heal others with his fruit.

[uncut widget]

Alright, is there any similiar case other than Marco?

[solar pulsar]

what if the one piece is the mision and luffy makes an iland than yeah

[hearty igloo]

There’s 4 God

God of sun (Nika?)
God of Forest (this one i guess who create devil fruit)
God of Earth (maybe who build or create the red line)
God of sea (who flood realm in the past)

Earth not friendly with sun
Sea not friendly with who ever killed the sun in second war

So it’s likely Sun & sea VS forest & earth?

[hollow dock]

if forest god did'nt create devil fruits then there is no sun god in 2nd world(joyboy) and also in 3rd world. So I feel every god vs earth god as he started the war made the world imbalance

[hearty igloo]

Nika have power of imagination so it could be All the devil fruit create from his imagination? Or he make other imagination become reality?

But the god of sea didn’t like devil fruit (all devil fruit user can’t swim in sea) so it could be something going on with forest vs sea?

[hollow dock]

my theory is earth god started war so start of imbalance. forest god created devil fruits to make the world balance again. Any may be In 2nd world if joyboy had defeated the earth god he may have taken back the devil fruity abilities but joyboy lost. As the devil fruits remain and the world is full of chaos sea god cursed the devil fruit users . After 3rd world war if Imu is defeated then forest god will take all fruits back.

[hearty igloo]

Could it be Imu is the god of forest?

[hollow dock]

If Imu is forest god then my theory fails. But I feel Imu is most likely a earth god

[gritty kite]

Yes, kaido projecting his flying flames to make things levitate, in this case onigashima.

It’s not clear if that’s a result from awakening, but the ability acts like a paramecia in those cases or at least what you would expect from awakened paramecia

[tame mortar]

I want to write quite a long text about Harley, my translation and interpretation. Please wait until I finished writing.

After pondering for some time and exercising my Japanese, here's my translation and interpretation of The Harley:

「第一世界」
The First World

地に炎あり
There [was] flame upon earth.

人は欲望に負け
Human lost to desire,

禁断の太陽に触れた
[and] touched the forbidden sun.

隷人は願い
Slavekind made their wish,

”太陽の神”は現れた
[thus] "God of the Sun" appeared.

地の神は怒り
God of the Earth [got] enraged.

業炎の蛇と共に
Along with Serpent of Destined Flame,

世界を死と闇で包んだ
engulfed the world to death and darkness.

彼らはもう会えないのだ
They shall never meet again.

「第二世界」
The Second World

虚無に息吹あり
There is life upon nothingness.

森の神は魔を遣わせた
God of the Forest scattered the devil[s].

太陽は戦火を
[While] the Sun just spread,

広げるばかりだ
the sparks of war.

半月の人は夢を見た
People of the Half-moon saw a dream.

月の人は夢を見た
People of the Moon saw a dream.

人は太陽を殺し神となり
Human kill the sun, [thus] become god.

海の神は荒ぶった
God of the Sea ran wild.

彼らはもう会えないのだ
They shall never meet again.

「第三世界」
The Third World

混沌に空白あり
There is void upon chaos.

不都合な残影は
The shades of the unfavored,

約束の日を思い出し
remember the promised day,

片われ月の声を聞く
[and] listen to the voice of the moon fragmented.

”太陽の神”は踊り、笑い
"God of the Sun" dances and laughs,

世界を終末へと導く
Leading the world to its end.

太陽は回帰し
The sun [will] rise again,

新しい朝が来る
[then] comes the new dawn.

彼らはきっと会えるだろう
They will surely meet.

And here's my remarks of this:

Tenses on each World
The verses in 1st World and 2nd World are written in past tense, while 3rd World in non-past tense.
1st and 2nd World have a nuance of telling a story that already happened.
3rd World verses have nuanced that it is an optimistic future that will come after the writing of the verses.

First verse on each World
The first verses of each World are written in the same pattern. Literally, they are "There is X in Y".

The 1st World says "There is Flame in Earth".
I don't think there's any other interpretation other than the earth was ablaze for some reason. Likely because human touched the sun.

The 2nd World says "There is Breath in Nothingness".
The breath as in "breath of life" indicates that after nothingness (from death and darkness) from the first world, life start to sprung alive again.

The 3rd World says "There is Void in Chaos".
The same "void" as in Void Century indicates that after the chaos that God of the Sea ensued by being wild (water rising and all that stuff), the history becomes forgotten into void.

.
Last verse on each World
Both 1st and 2nd World has 彼らはもう会えないのだ. This has a nuance of general statement/opinion of the writer instead of telling a story. Most translation will have this as "They won't meet again." However, I don't see anyone mentioned the other possible translation of this: "We won't ever meet them again."

Literally, the sentence says "About them, will not meet anymore." You see, it is hard to tell who is the subject in this sentence. Particle は is technically a topic marker, not subject marker, though most of the same both are the same. So, it can be either "About them, [they] will not meet anymore" or "About them, [someone] will not meet anymore." This "someone" depends on context, which is most likely the writer or us reader.

The same case happens in 3rd World Last verse. It can be "They will surely meet." or** "We will surely meet them."** Now, if all 3 verses has the same pattern, which version would be the most consistent?

Human, Humanity, People
Across the poem, it is unclear whether the humans being told is singular or plural, or even refer to the same person(s). So, it is up to the context for the best interpretation of 人 in the verses. Anytime you see "Human", "People", etc. you can also think of it as either a single human, group of humans, humanity, or people. It's not clear.

.
1st World 4th verse
There is 隷人(reijin) instead of 奴隷(dorei). Dorei 奴隷 is the one that usually used to refer to slaves in slavery. It can also mean servant. 隷人 on the other hand is not a common word that does not appear on vocabularies. Thus, this likely to be read as Slave-folk, as in Merfolk (魚人, fish-people), dwarves (小人, small-people) or Giants (巨人, large-people). Which means, 隷人 refers to a group of people who are commonly thought as slave being.

1st World 7th verse
There is 業炎の蛇(gouen no hebi). 蛇 simply means snake/serpent, but 業炎 is also not a common word.
炎 is the same as the Flame in 1st verse, but its not clear whether they are connected.

Many translations says 業 in archaic relates to Buddhist concept of karma. This is true, but they dont mention that 業 now is commonly used as a notion of 'matter', 'deed', or 'act'. Examples are 授業(jugyou) which means class ([the act of] teaching) and 仕業(shiwaza), usually refers to someone's actions (because of him/his act, I fell).
And so, I believe "fate" or** "destiny"** is the closest meaning in English to the kanji 業 both in archaic and modern usage.

All of this leads me to translate 業炎の蛇 as Fiery Serpent of Fate. Other possible versions are Serpent of Fiery Fate, Fiery Serpent of Destiny, Serpent of Destined Flame, Serpent of Fated Flame, or even Serpent of Ragnarok.

1st World 8th verse
包んだ means engulfed, but also means covered, shrouded, etc. The point is, you wrap something with another thing. Perfect for Red Line.

.
2nd World 2nd verse
魔 is commonly translated to demons. It refers to devils (悪魔, akuma, evil demon) demons (魔族/魔物, mazoku/mamono, demon clan/demon being), or magic in general (魔法, mahou, demonic ways). But since this is from a tree, and we know a 魔 that is central to the series, it might as well be that Devil in Devil Fruits (悪魔の実, akuma-no-mi). Interestingly, 悪魔の実 can also be translated as Devil's Fruit.

2nd World 3rd-4th verse
This is one sentence split in two. 太陽は戦火を広げるばかりだ, means "The Sun only spreads the sparks of war." The key word here is ばかり, or "just".

Fortunately, it carries the same ambiguous meaning in English as ばかり. That is, the sentence can mean:

• "the sun just spread sparks of war [and nothing else]",
• "the sun just [merely] spread the sparks of war", or
• "the sun just [finished] spread the sparks of war".

So, whatever meaning of "just" in your English-speaking head is probably the same thing that comes up in Japanese-speaking head.

2nd world 8th verse
God of the Sea is 荒ぶった(arabutta). The closest meaning is "to turn savage", "to run amok", or "to become wild". Another thing to note is that 荒ぶる神(araburu-kami) is apparently a thing that translates to "Malevolent God". And so, the nuance is that the God is not angry per emotional sense, but just simply runs wild/malevolent.

.
3rd world 2nd verse
不都合(futsugou) here conveys the meaning of unfavourable/inconvenience. 都合(tsugou) means convenience, as in "what's the time that is convenient to you?". The prefix 不 is basically negation, "inconvenient". Connecting to the story, this strongly related to "those who are lost (the battle)," those who are unfavored by fate.
残影(zanei) translates as traces or remnants. The kanji used are 残(zan, leftover) and 影(ei, shadow/shade.)
So, alternate meanings are "Shadows of the unfavored", "Remnants of the unfavourables", etc.

3rd world, 4th verse
片われ月 is kind of challenging to translate. Some translators goes for the "cresent moon", but 三日月(mikadzuki, 3-day moon) is the one usually used for it. Going more literal, it has a meaning to be imperfect or fragmented. Thus it can also be translated as "fragmented moon".
The 2nd-4th verse likely refers to Joyboy's lost friends waiting for promised day. And so, what are they listening to? Vegapunk's speech? Voice of all things? the D clans? But since the theme is those who were lost/unfavored, I prefer the fragmented moon.

3rd world 7th-8th verse
This can be either 2 sentences, but likely 1 sentence split into 2. 太陽は回帰し新しい朝が来る, literally means "The sun [will] return, new morning [will] come"
Translators can write it as poetic as they can, but generally they all conveys the same meaning that this is an optimistic take that after the sunset, eventually the sun will return to rise again. And with it, the new dawn.

There are more nuances into this, and if I have the time I will edit to add more. Thanks for listening.

[earnest glen]

This is God's work, holy moly

[whole eagle]

片われ月の声 I prefer incomplete voice of the moon, kind of referencing the poneglyph being their voice and incomplete because they are in pieces all around the world.
I believe each verse hold similar flow/meaning to each world
1st verse introduce the world (how it begins different from the previous world)
2nd and 3rd verse introduce the change to the world (the what and why)
4th verse introduce us to the pilot to the main event
5th verse is always speaking of the "Sun God" (except on the 2nd world which probably indicates that they dream of the "Sun God")
6th - 8th verse is what comes after the "Sun God" (this kind of hint that the people of moon and the people of the half moon having a different dream)
9th verse is the conclusion to each world

also note how the "Sun God" is presented differently in quotation differing from the other gods
Action of Gods can be explained for disasters, and Sun god doesn't cause a disaster like the other gods listed in the text
the Forest God hints at the disasters (all the gods in the text) being man-made instead of natural
The sun is different entity from "Sun God", it could be a representation of mother flame and the Celestial Dragon killed the mother flame not the "Sun God".

Based on what I gather from the original Japanese text and my own depiction on the translation, I think the mural depicts only the Second World and not the first and second world together.
The world is divided to two sides thanks to what happen in the first world (Red Line spawned), each side fighting a different war, the tree representing the red line splitting the 2 worlds and a "creature" (probably a faction with an ancient weapon) reside on top of it, the left side is fighting for the sun and the right side is fighting in the moon. (they are 2 side of the same world), the right side is what became the world government and they killed off the left side along with the sun.

[hazy gulch]

hey guys we all know that there is person in Elbaph who was drinking with Crocus in a cover story? and we all think that it is Gabban but what if it was not Gabban but Oden himself?

[hearty igloo]

Could be shiki

[hazy gulch]

but the head

the hat that character is wearing is same as ayazaka nine

[hearty igloo]

Some wild theory make this

[hazy gulch]

nah but why would Shiki be drinking with Crocus in first place

after seeing Ohara's Mega Theory

Crocus Rayliegh and stationed at one one main point to travel further

maybe Gabban is in lodestar waiting for the crews

[hearty igloo]

Still should meet the guy with the burn mark to get the last red ponelgyph.

So far only shanks, blackbeard, and luffy who make it move and have all the three.

Law and kidd been wipe

[silver dirge]

This channel is about to be packed for months

[outer cedar]

you guys think this will happen at the third war this makes so much sense cuz he already locked up and shi

[slender narwhal]

Holy yap

[slender narwhal]

Yes

[outer cedar]

the only thing that bothers me with this is that it means that it would potentially happen in elbaph

the third war

because hes locked up there

[little kelp]

would make sense if this arc is the start of the war

[outer cedar]

i mean yeah the holy knights and shit but like also this would make sense if its set up for next arc war

[pure raven]

Its Yamon on Elbaf imo not Scopper

[final bloom]

the cloth in latest chp signifies more of shiki imo but we'll see

[hollow dock]

if the mural shows only 2nd world yes. if the mural shows 1st and 2nd world then that sun god and people are slaves praying sun god nika.

[wet gust]

Considering the mural is 900-800 years ago, I'd say it's showing the second and third world

[hollow dock]

if it is 800-900 yrs ago showing 1st world more acceptable then 3rd world. 3rd world is only written prophecy I can't imagine someone has this insane observation haki.

[wet gust]

Well I'd have to disagree because you can also see the Noah inside Zunesha's figure, and Noah was built over 800 years ago

[final bloom]

doesnt that mean its during second world aka void century?

[wet gust]

Yeah I believe so too

[hollow dock]

wait I just remembered vegapunk saying the war which started in void century is still going on does that mean 2nd world war did'nt end? or he is implying the start of 3rd ww

[tawny osprey]

its also saidf to be "some kids dream" and so i believe that it was a young joyboy or whoever was on joyboys crew from elbaf

[graceful fulcrum]

i just got a major brain fart about the first world quote, dont know if people got it already

The earth is engulfed in flame, and the hearts of men burned with desire, they reach for the forbiden star.

THATS VEGAPUNK

he described the world as comprised of condensed energy, so if he could just tap into it he'd have unlimited amounts of it

thats possibly the mother flame

the forbidden star

[raw gust]

I think that the mother flame is a recreation of/inspired by the original ”forbidden sun”

[graceful fulcrum]

i think "sun" here is symbolic and not an actual sun

its a "source of light"

[raw gust]

Yeah, ofc. But that the mother flame would try to accomplish what ”the sun” did

Whatever that was

[graceful fulcrum]

yes, and the undying flame would be the mastered version

[cursive onyx]

Any theories regarding the latest chapter?

[earnest glen]

My guesses:

1. Flame = undying flame, later recreated as Mother Flame, endless source of energy, materials mined from volcanic layer inside the earth by slaves, possibly related to pyrobloin
2. Sun = culmination of advanced technology, powered by the flame, including advanced weapons and the ability to manifest souls and desires into reality
3. 1st World = Ancient Kingdom, Kingdom of the Sun, located in present Reverse Mountain, evil kingdom that practiced slavery, inspired by Atlantis, fated to destroy themselves by their hubris
4. Sun God = Nika, manifestation of slaves wishes to be free, materialize as rubber body that can stretch and shape reality however it wishes
5. Earth God = great volcanic eruption caused by continuous flame mining, destroyed the Sun Kingdom and buried it under Flame Serpent, the Red Line. Inspired by how Atlantis sunk
6. Forest God = Sunlight Eve Tree, located in present Mary Geoise (Red Line), absorbed the Sun's power and manifest them as Devil's Fruit, encoded with souls and desires of the 1st World (devils)
7. Sea God = great flood, caused by (possibly) Uranus firing on the planet, with the intent to drown the rebirth Nika (Joyboy) and his Moon alliances. Inspired by biblical flood
8. Joy Boy = the first pirate, born near Reverse Mountain, become Nika by eating Devil's Fruit, spreading dreams of Sun Kingdom return
9. Moons = Joyboy's allies, those who reflect the Sun's light (Half-Moon = D? not sure), fragmented as voices during the void history (as ponelgyph, voice of all things, etc)
10. Imu = human king, prevent the Moons' dream to revive the 1st World and its path of destruction, crushing everyone's dream by force, possibly using Sun's power to become immortal (devils)

[cursive onyx]

Bro literally said "here's the summary"

Is there more?

[earnest glen]

I could expand, but that's pretty much a concise version of what I thought
basically I think the poem focus on death and rebirth of the Sun

while the mural show us the locations, the tree (Mary Geoise) are on the opposite side of both the serpent and the flood (Reverse Mountain)

[cursive onyx]

I'm perplexed rn

[earnest glen]

the far-fetched idea here is that the Sun, whatever it is, can grant wishes. And its derivation (Sun God, Sunlight Tree Eve) act the same way

in the 1st World, the Sun was used for evil. in the 2nd World, Joyboy want to revive the 1st World and Imu try to stop him doing that (which is why Vegapunk is reluctant to judge who's good and who's evil)

[copper hill]

Can we take a time out to appreciate the work that went into this? This is exactly what I was looking for, thank you and excellent job!

[iron loom]

Yes,

[iron loom]

Yes

Red line serpent theory

[copper hill]

Potentially, although my interpretation is that Ripley is talking about the idea of all races working together being something akin to an immature child's dream (i.e. Luffy's dream of a big party with everyone or foreshadowing whatever)

[cursive onyx]

If you got time, explain it

[iron loom]

I like to think the 3rd world piece is where the child’s dream comes in. That one day the voice of the half moon and the sun god will meet again.

[cursive onyx]

That's still a theory, right?

[earnest glen]

yep, still inside the theory

[copper hill]

Might be!
For speculation's sake, here's a couple quick facts
1. The Mural was made during the void century
2. Harley is different from the mural, we're just seeing them at the same time in the manga

Some people are still thinking that the mural depicts the Third World but it's only Harley that has anything to say about that prophecy. Saul states that they're living in the Third World

[cursive onyx]

Like what Blackbeard said to Luffy back at Jaya island before he left to Skypiea?

[final bloom]

wouldnt it be that the entire mural represents void century and not the first war?

[tawny osprey]

yes ur interpretation is still valid with it being joyboys or an elbaf child who was on joyboys crew doing it the drawing has significant history behind it so it knew whatr happened hence it most likely was not an actual kid but the dream of a once kid

[iron loom]

The entire mural represents the start of the story to the end of Joyboy.

And nods to a new dawn on the horizon. (Luffy)

The mural as far as we are concerned was drawn by children during the void century.

[copper hill]

Ah I'm saying the reason that line was included was not to point out a child on the crew (although it may have been done by a child), but foreshadowing Luffy's eventual dream reveal

[iron loom]

I wanna think his dream is something like, connecting the seas.

Idk,

[copper hill]

I'm really interested in the theory that the right half of the mural is happening at the same time as the left half, just on different sides of the red line.

For a while now I've been thinking that maybe the "ancient kingdom" was not necessarily good or moral and maybe Joyboy's whole thing was fighting segregation between the ancient kingdom and the other side

[iron loom]

I agree, I wanna believe our joyboy story happens right after the buildings on the mural

[tawny osprey]

the mural is a strange drawing that somehow is actualy a drawing of the history of the planet it matches up with the harley so theres a very lowq chance it was made by a child and instead just interpreted that way i think it was most definitely joyboy who drew it and not from child form but adult joyboy expressing his dream from when he was a child

[copper hill]

Possibly! I'm saying that it's not necessarily important who drew it, it's more important what it represents in terms of giant politics (something absurd as giants allying with other races)

[iron loom]

Yeah it’s definitely not.

[copper hill]

I'm wondering if it's something like this
Other Kingdoms: hey don't socialize with the ancient kingdom
Ancient Kingdom: hey don't socialize with those other kingdoms
Joyboy: I'll go where I want, screw you (why he was considered the first pirate, as in OP pirates are considered the most free)

[tawny osprey]

its 1000% important who drew it since it was drawn during joyboys life and it is speculated to be somones dream when the entire story is based around peoples dreams it was even hypothesized by vegapunk that DF are just people from other realitys dreams

[tawny osprey]

i think that that statement only covewrs like 1% of what it actually depictsand what most giants would think

that mural is just as if not more important than the poneglyphs imo

[granite surge]

What it figarling will turn into typhon 🤔

[copper hill]

I think we're talking past each other. I don't disagree with any facts, just saying that I think the reason Ripley mentioned it's a dream is because she is dismissing the mural as history because of, to her, the absurd notion that multiple races would work together

The evidence that the mural is done by a child hinges on Ripley's notion that only a kid would think of something so unrealistic as giants and other races allied together

[copper hill]

^

[tawny osprey]

nah like im agreeing with you but also saying like its so much more and i personally think the main reason oda added that ripley comment was to foreshadow it was joyboys dream ffrom when he was a kid not when he drew it to go and explore and adventure

the same way luffy is compared to a kid

and yet hes the current joyboy with a dream even most his crew thinks is impossible

[copper hill]

It's also important to know that Harley the text doesn't say anything about races working together or the information we get from the mural.
But the two piece together and it's been stated in the manga that the giants can't really read Harley with any accuracy. So for all we know Robin's the first person to translate it well

[tawny osprey]

i think the poneglyph language VASTLY predates the country of wano and that it was once used worldwide and that is why robin can read it

[pure raven]

wonder if its actually a serpent or just natural disaster/or use of quake quake fruit
kinda like ppl back in days thinking they angered a god when a quake hit

[raw scarab]

the other thing we have seen is weapons for creature several times larger than the current giants of the world...potentially several times taller than Oars Jr.

actually we do see extra large weapons on elbaf and wano, right? Wano has the titan skull on it. Perhaps it died building the walls of wano?

[copper hill]

absolutely thinking this. It's clear that in Harley there's mention of 4 Gods, but in the mural it's very unclear

There are some things about the mural that are reasonable to conclude (like, oh,that's joyboy, that thing over there represents a ship, etc) but that's only us recognizing things we've seen before.

The mural is unclear if there are any **Gods ** in there, or what, if any, ancient weapons there are in the mural

[iron loom]

My first thought back then was Joyboy lifted it out of the ground. But now we have this world serpent character now.

[raw scarab]

I mean it seems the 4 gods are either space tribes, or powerful celestial beings that could lead the charge on the planet. The ancient weapons obviously tied to this.

[iron loom]

I don’t believe the gods ever truly existed in the one piece universe.

Atleast within the scope of the mural.

[copper hill]

yeah, there's stuff that seems obvious, but really isn't canon yet

information we have vs. headcanon

[raw scarab]

when you say gods never existed, do you mean nobody called Nika, or that Nika existed but was just a powerful being, not a literal god.

I see the gods existing, but just being powerful.

[copper hill]

let's define some terms first

[raw scarab]

Like Imu could be considered a god, but not really

[iron loom]

The Nika during the 1st world to me came through prayer and manifestation of a higher being. Spread of the mythos. I don’t believe Nika himself came before the people.

[iron loom]

We also have to look at what Elbaf refer to as gods. Our god of Land is seemingly just a king.

[pure raven]

Imu being able to share/take power and the gorosei having non fruit powers(their card never says its a zoan etc) makes me believe imu has powers that dont stem from devilfruits

But then, why is sun god a devilfruit?

[raw scarab]

Like extinct giants, the ones that were taller than zunesha and could tip over continents, mortals probably would call them gods

[copper hill]

1. God as in people can make up a mythological god, like say, ancient Greeks did. Zeus, etc, to explain the inexplicable like natural disasters or phenomenon.
2. Zeus could have been an alien that landed and used electricity and the ancient people couldn't explain it, so they said he was a god
3. Zeus was a real deity that showed up and the ancient Greeks were just writing things down that the actual deity did

[iron loom]

I would like to think this but to introduce a new power system like that this far into the story? I’m gonna roll with thinking he has a DF simply considering the effectiveness of Haki against his powers.

Probably a similar zoan in nature to Nika.

Where he has control of outside forces.

[copper hill]

The first is a concept
The second is a real being but was called a god
The third is a an actual god

[pure raven]

Why doesnt it state the gorosei as having a DF tho?

[iron loom]

I don’t believe they have them, but have been empowered by Imu for centuries.

As well as the Holy Knights.

[tawny osprey]

the 4 gods were depicted back in skypeia forest god rain god sun god and earth god

[pure raven]

So like… imu ate xxx amount of devilfruit and share it with them, hence they only got the powers but didnt actually consume a/multiple fruit?

Thats something that i think, that imu is kind of a all for one

[copper hill]

This is really important moving forward:

We've seen Skypians talk about conceptual gods during the alter/sacrifice scene
We've seen Enel call himself an actual god (delusional), same with Celestial Dragons
And then we've seen God Usopp where people started calling him a god because of what he did

The Harley text does NOT say which of those they're talking about

[iron loom]

I think the fruit itself has properties which he can spread onto others.

[copper hill]

Yeah, the four gods as concepts have been around forever in the manga. But people are getting kinda sloppy and it makes theories unclear when all 3 types of the word "god" are being used interchangably

[pure raven]

I think sun god being real makes all others real by default

[copper hill]

Where is there evidence of the sun god being real?

[iron loom]

Nika was never confirmed to be real.

[copper hill]

There isn't- there's a Nika devil fruit that others are calling god only so far

[pure raven]

Hit hito no mi: model nika
So its real

[iron loom]

Joyboy was recognized as Nika.

[iron loom]

You’re about to tell me Buddah is in the OP verse too?

[pure raven]

Same thing

[copper hill]

No, the devil fruit is real, not the actual god it was based off of

[copper hill]

Read #manga-theories message this link

[tawny osprey]

im pretty sure there are ALL the ancient weapons in the mural posiedien is clearly represented by the mermaid princess and ive been a firm believer the original uranus was a dragon and that the GIANT EGG on rogers ship that has never once been explained is the last dragon on the planet and is the real non mechanical uranus whereas the WG has a mechanical dragon. also pluton i believe WAS THE ANCIENT KINMGDOM anentire floating city With slave power and motherflame power i think that is what the bottom right is explaining

[copper hill]

Again, I'm saying that's speculation

Could be true! I like the idea and kind of agree but we don't know for sure yet

[raw scarab]

yes, we dont know if all the weapons were used

[tawny osprey]

everythiong in this discord is speculation tf u talkin bout

[copper hill]

Incorrect!

[tawny osprey]

a theory isd speculative possibility

[copper hill]

There are some things that are evidence based and then there's theories and then there's tinfoil hat conspiracies haha

[raw scarab]

we know joyboy didnt keep a promise, but we are not sure what that promise was he broke. Was it about Noah? About not using the ancient weapon to fight? Thing about fishman ancient weapon is its basically a mortal.

[tawny osprey]

we are in the theory channel a theory is speculation tf u talkin bout

[iron loom]

UnLeSs OdA cOnFiRms It it is NoThiNg more thAn a ThEory

[copper hill]

If you'd like to take it to DM don't hesitate, I'd rather not clog up the channel with definitions of words and the differences in evidence vs speculation. No hard feelings though!

[raw scarab]

The skypians could have been perceived as gods, if not all the sky races.

[tawny osprey]

my evidence is the mural the mural has no words and is only up to interpretation so i am interperating it the same as u and everyoine else its proven by the fact the giants have been speclating and forming theories for millenia

[pure raven]

That we dont rlly know
But i think the demons are all just devilfruits, like nika, the fruit and thus the god got created by the desire of the peopl

How exactly, i dont know… but then its also strange

second world: the forest god sent forth demons. That means to me that thats when devilfruits starting being a thing

But i think we gotta wait for official translation to put some sense in the texts

The translations are all so different

[copper hill]

exactly! it's still so up in the air. It's one of the best things about this chapter, honestly- it feels like we're back at the beginning of One Piece and finding out about the void century for hte first time

[tawny osprey]

nothing i have said i have said is fact im talking about theories if u think im wrongand ur right ur stupid neither of us know for a fact what oda is thinking or cooking the whole point of this channel isnt to say people are wrong but top entertain theories u still havent said a single thing that disproves any of my theories just "incorrect" whioch is an imbecilic statement

[pure raven]

I love and hate it lmao feels like we didnt actually get any information, hope the next chapter brings some more concrete info

[iron loom]

I think it was manifestation like Vegapunk stated. The desire for powers birthed Nika. I believe our God of Forest could be Mother Nature.

[raw scarab]

We have three sky races, three ancient weapons, 3 gods. We also have a 4th sky race, that seems to be scrubbed away. A 4th god that seems to be rare/banned, and potentially another ancient weapon.

[copper hill]

Yep! That would be a case of real beings that people called God because they didn't understand them

[pure raven]

It aint bout wrong and right
But figuring this out together

[raw scarab]

Lunarians are the key here. When did they arrive to earth.

[iron loom]

Mothers are associated with Women and so are witches whom cast Magic? Idk could be a stretch.

[copper hill]

Please relax. I have not disagreed with a single one of your theories. I disagreed with your statement that evidence and theories are the same thing

[tawny osprey]

thats literally how it works if i make a story and u make a theory about it and i am not polanning that then yes it is just a theory

[iron loom]

I’m Odas editor I know what’s up

[pure raven]

I dont have a clue
What we know tho is that lunarians lifed on the redline but the redline was moost likely created in the first world

So were they on earth before that?

[copper hill]

Yeah, the numbers seem to match up in interesting ways.
4 gods
4 winged races
3 ancient weapons

[tawny osprey]

you said it was incorrect that wverything in the theory cvhannel was speculative until the source material states it it is speculation AKA a THEORY

[raw scarab]

Devil fruits the 4th ancient weapon

[iron loom]

I believe Lunarians came from the Moon same as Shandians?

[copper hill]

No, I did not. Read what I said. Or like I said, take it to DM if there are further issues. I mean you no ill will, ha

[tawny osprey]

lunar ians lunar = moon pretty obvious

[iron loom]

The moon in the OP universe is seemingly inhabitable as Enel retreated there too.

[pure raven]

Nop, nothing so far point to that sadly

[iron loom]

We will have an arc there.

[iron loom]

I’m pretty sure it was stated.

[tawny osprey]

i said everything in this channel is speculation so non shit my og comment was speculation and u responded "incorrect"

[pure raven]

I looked it up
It wasnt

[tawny osprey]

LUNARians

[copper hill]

Please DM instead of clogging up this channel

[raw scarab]

they are called lunarians, but the other sky races do not depict them

[tawny osprey]

idc that much

[pure raven]

The name is just a name lmao
Look up the actually wiki and whats said in the story maybe

[tawny osprey]

they could predate the sky races and have came to the "blue planet" before the sky races

[raw scarab]

That is what I am thinking, they split up ago.

[tawny osprey]

im not saying they R DEFINITELYT from moon im saying the name of the race is based off of the moon

so that is really weird why would oda make a race of people named after the moon not from the moon

[pure raven]

Yea
So far we only know that birkan, shandorians snd skypian left/came from moon

They all lifed in the city called birka

[tawny osprey]

exaactly

[pure raven]

Regarding lunarians so far we only have the sentence, that they lifed on the redline

[tawny osprey]

but that doesnt mean there is no connection between lunarians and the moon the connection is in the nmame

[iron loom]

People with wings are seemingly alien characters. Our Shandians are from the moon. Lunarians is literally in the name.

[copper hill]

It would make sense that they are related or there is some connection between Lunarians and the Sky folk- they both have wings. There's also a whole "dark side of the moon" thing

[raw scarab]

And they were from the land of the gods, far before the celestial dragons. Whitebeard also called them gods.

[pure raven]

Yea, im just saying what we have so far, thats all

[copper hill]

Yeah, so far we have seen no direct evidence of lunarians on the moon, just them on the red line

[raw scarab]

pretty telling that Whitebeard heard stories of lunarians being gods

[pure raven]

Regarding the mural, i gotta ask yall something

[copper hill]

sup

[iron loom]

I think lunarians are gonna be really important. The flame they carry on their backs could have a link back to the serpent.

[pure raven]

So far what most people think, is that imu is one of the demons

But we also see a crowned figure on zunesha, together with 19 ppl getting that ,,energie“ or whatever from the underground

If thats imu and not the demon, maybe while joyboy and all races fought the demons, imu and the kings basically went to the ancient kingdom, ransacked it and backstabbed the other races

And zunesha sadly betrayed joyboy too, as he carried them

[copper hill]

And could be a way to power ancient technology

[raw scarab]

my theory was they are the serpent

the serpent has the same tattoo on it as king

[iron loom]

The flames were stated to empower Lunarians. Which could also be what the God of Land needed to destroy the entire world.

[copper hill]

I'm wondering if the reason Joyboy got betrayed was one of his Nakama directly sabotaged him. Would be fitting and tie into how Blackbeard did the absolutely unspeakable and worst crime in OP: betraying and killing your crew

[pure raven]

Oh yea, imu could be that one

[copper hill]

There's also some odd symbolism of the winged moon people and Lunarians. The whole dark side of the moon thing

[pure raven]

Although its also stated that the 20 kingdoms declared war on the advanced/ancient kingdom… i dont know

[copper hill]

The biggest functional difference between Lunarians and the sky folk is that Lunarians generate a flame naturally and their wings actually work

[iron loom]

The red line serpent theory could make a lotta sense if Lunarians are from there.

[raw scarab]

👀 wait, the bottom right corner. What if mortals were taking pieces of a mother flame, and turning into lunarians. They reached for the sun. Nika was the first mortal bound to the sun.

[iron loom]

Oh yeah potentially, could be the ancient civilization that harness the flames. Idk about Nika being mortal though.

[raw scarab]

Well, Nika being a lunarian king.

(not immortal, but incredibly powerful)

[iron loom]

That would be interesting.

There’s theory he could be giant.

Because of the hat imu has.

[copper hill]

It seems very, very intentional that Enies Lobby (a place where it's always day and never night, something we've never seen elsewhere AND has a giant hole in the ocean like Lulusia after Imu's attack) is right nearby Impel Down, the only structure we've seen that goes from the sea floor to the surface

Which is also right next to Sabody and the red line, fishman island, Marineford AND Mariejois

[raw scarab]

The other thing is the 3 ancient weapons dont actually seem like weapons. They are actually practical, but obviously could be used as weapons.

[copper hill]

Also it seems perfectly in character for World Government jerks to flaunt and put their judicial branch right on top of where a previous island was, or joyboy's home, or hell, even joyboy's execution spot

[copper hill]

YEAH! Ancient weapons could have just been tools back then

[raw scarab]

like, if you wanted to terraform, they would be perfect.

[pure raven]

Regarding redline being a serpent, i have a small small detail, that may be meaningless but i find interessting: the serpent/sea king looking thing on the pillars

[raw scarab]

thinking about it, especially with the half-moon thing, nika probably was a sky person/ or half sky person, and rebelled AGAINST his own kind.

[copper hill]

Yep!

[copper hill]

There is definitely something going on with resource gathering, I noticed this from the mural

let me get a screen cap of the diagram I made

[pure raven]

Any clue why the ones going down have a halo?

[raw scarab]

I mean it could be the sky people wanted resources, especially gold, and used the humans as labor. Eventually Nika, the fallen sky person came to their aid. Then the lunarians and 'earth god'...potentially ancient weapon, went to war.

[copper hill]

Excellent catch! That is one of the biggest mysteries in my opinion!

Here's my notes on the mural

[copper hill]

This is a really good idea

The numbers don't draw any conclusions because that way is madness, but I did think it important to note since people were just making up numbers to mean things

[raw scarab]

hard to say. It could be basically implying somebody losing their angelic status/immortality/power.

[copper hill]

Knowing our luck Oda's sitting in his home reading social media and thinking "they think those are halos? Those are just dots"

[pure raven]

I think looking at the mural without thinking/reading the text, is smart
With the text it just adds confusion

[raw scarab]

I showed my wife the picture without the translation. She barely knows one piece so was fun to get her raw thoughts.

[copper hill]

Yeah, I see a lot of people trying to draw conclusions that the 3rd World is the left side of the mural because the text is up above

[copper hill]

I did the same thing! Was asking people that don't know OP to see what they could make of it

[pure raven]

Yea could be seen that way, if we say that the shield and sword is a representation of sanji and zoro, but then, wheres the rest of the straw hats and why is emeth there?

[raw scarab]

One thing to note, is devils/demons, the fallen, are often seen as good in One piece.e

Half of luffys crew use demon manuevers, or are called demons

[copper hill]

Exactly!

[pure raven]

I think the only thing about this mural thats the third world, is franky/him becoming or building pluton
I forget it often but franky literally knows the plans to one of the ancient weapons

[raw scarab]

We see some unusual inventions in one piece, the ancient weapons and bioengineering. It wouldnt be surprising to see this somehow related to the development of devil fruits.

[copper hill]

Yeah, it's interesting that on the right of the mural you only see humans and normal animals and one winged angel figure

Then on the left after the tree you see all kinds of wacky races and robots and whatnot

[pure raven]

Specially since vegapunk says its part of evolution, just like technology

[copper hill]

Wouldn't be surprised if mechanical technology destroyed the First World and then genetic engineering (nature/devil's fruits) is the only thing that survived whatever nuclear fallout or apocolypse

[pure raven]

Technology is all about wants and needs
So the ultimate technology is being able to do whatever you want to be and do, shooting flames, being a dinosaur lmao

[raw scarab]

things like the mother flame might need recharging after awhile. Perhaps by souls. Why the moon went dark and sky people came to earth. The lunarians didnt care, because they are power.

souls are the uraniam for the reactor to keep going for a long time.

[pure raven]

Drop the pizza made a great video about this
Vegapunk motherflame raised the sea by 1 meter and just has a part of the motherflame recreation
If we think that the original motherflame was way stronger, it makes sense that the sea rose by over 100m

[copper hill]

Yeah, it's really really weird that we get halos going down but none coming up

Would fit One Piece that the dead weren't allowed to die and kept being slaves somehow

[pure raven]

Hell yea and we already got ppl like moria who are trying to control and create dead ppl

If anyone is successfull at it, then immortal being like imu

[loud arch]

Just posted a forum about the crew’s devil fruit numbers. Are you guys familiar with goroawase?

Was wondering if you were aware of any words based on the numbers 6&9 that could possibly predict Loki’s devil fruit. If he happens to be the 10th SH member.

I predict it’s someone else we already know, but wanted to see if anyone had other ideas.

[raw scarab]

and brooks. We see the soul as a resource in one piece, one that can be exploited

[pure raven]

Personally i think we already have 10 ppl with vivi and that she‘ll get the paw paw fruit

[iron loom]

Do you guys think the boat they are feeding the stars into could be Pluton?

We see 2/3 ancient weapons here

[pure raven]

Could be, but wonder why we only see like half of it and just a simple raft shape

[loud arch]

See, the thing is, with Luffy’s DF now being Nika 25, I don’t think the paw paw fruit fits anymore

Especially since she’s a queen now. She couldn’t play pirate before. Definitely can’t now

[iron loom]

Yeah to dismiss it like the others is interesting.

[copper hill]

Good catch, especially with Big Mom using it to extend her own life and "taxing" peoples souls

[raw scarab]

There is something about conquerors haki too. It is only found in humans. Granted some of those humans might be larger than others. Rocks gathered all the conq. haki users he could find.

Kaido wasn't exactly a human, but probably a half-human. His moniker of monster more of the hate civilization poured on him.

[copper hill]

Oh snap, I hadn't even thought of that. That's absolutely wild and I think you're right, going to look to see who has Conq Haki

[raw scarab]

Lin Lin and White beard are considered human, even though they are tall and might have mixed heritage.

[copper hill]

And we still don't know the exact special feature of the Buccaneers

[raw scarab]

buccaneers might have something to do with souls. Perhaps resistant to a mechanism of the 1st age.

we see Kuma somehow remember who he was, even though his brain was basically removed

explains why BB might be unique. He could be half moon, half buccaneer.

it makes his soul wont leave/die while his body lives, so eating multiple fruits doesnt effect him.

or kill him I should say

[copper hill]

oh, that's a VERY interesting idea

[pure raven]

Jup and vegapunk said a soul has a weight lol

[raw scarab]

oh wait wait wait, conquerers haki is really about influencing the soul. And the stronger the soul, the stronger the conq haki.

as its described official, as influence and control over spirits

The 1st king, the one that held people together, likely was mutated, or somehow awakened the first case of conquers haki.

and his decedents formed the human kingdoms of the world.

[tawny osprey]

wait zunesha is in ther mural

[tawny osprey]

wtf u mean bb is half moon

[pure raven]

Hell yea
Thats the crime that zunesha commitet imo

[raw scarab]

D = half moon

[tawny osprey]

one sec im gonna go reexamine the mural but i never saw zunesha in it

[raw scarab]

🌓

[tawny osprey]

thats a stretch

[pure raven]

Imu/that crowned person is on zunesha

[raw scarab]

the will of D

[tawny osprey]

since D isnt D in japanese as there is no japanese letter that is just D

[pure raven]

Nah thats something thats been there ages

And the strawhat is also a D and looks like a sun coming up from the horizon, a dawn lol

[raw scarab]

exactly, the japanese names just show the half moon, as its a symbol, not a letter. Its meaning lost to history

[tawny osprey]

but D isnt D in japanese i thik

[raw scarab]

monkey - half moon - luffy

[tawny osprey]

so monkey D luffy in japanese is monkey "SYMBOL" luffy?

[pure raven]

Hahaha it is a D

[tawny osprey]

i dont speak japanese i just know the alphabets so im confused

[pure raven]

Thats how oda can pull this shit of
He actually uses a D

[tawny osprey]

so he uses japanese letters for monkey and luffy buit english letyter for D

[raw scarab]

yes, which could imply its not a D, but a half moon

[tawny osprey]

sounds like a stretch to me i think D reporesents bringing the dawn to a new world

[raw scarab]

oda man, he might be too good

all the D people only have that D symbol not in japanese

[tawny osprey]

i guess ur rigfht ive enbver seen hbis name in japanese

i also belkive it represents a half moon now

[raw scarab]

heck the world government wouldnt even acknowledge Gol D Roger, they just made it seem like a d and call him Gold Roger to hide the truth.

[tawny osprey]

but then why is gol d rogers name summarized to GOLD roger when GOLD and gol d are no where near the same in japoanese

[raw scarab]

his real name is Gol 🌓 Roger

but the world government just started using Gold to obscure a D that was causing chaos and getting too powerful

[tawny osprey]

but GOLD roger in japanese is much different righ?

[timber wing]

Half moon = D Clan
Full moon = Moon races??

[pure raven]

Here an example
Its a D

[raw scarab]

correct, the D vanishes in Gold

in japanese

[tawny osprey]

what is the katakana/ kanji above the D tho

[pure raven]

Just the furigana

Dii

[tawny osprey]

what is that

interestring

[pure raven]

Basically to know how to say what it says there
Mostly used for kanji

[pure raven]

Cause u cant actually read/spell a kanji without already knowing what it is
So for japanese ppl who cant read our alphabet, they put furigana there, so they know that D is spoken as Dii/ ヂイ

[raw scarab]

The will of D is basically that of fallen angels/sky people. Why they have almost devish sounding names for their #1s. The Dark king, the King of hell...ect

I do think after Gol D Roger realized the true history of the world, and saw laugh tale, that contributed him to finally surrending. I think Joy Boy did the same thing, because a public death would be a short term gain for their enemies, since now the name afterwards would never be scrubbed fully from time.

[copper hill]

Yeah, OP has a lot of symbolism and there's overlap but nothing super super clear yet. Some things that are similar:
Don / Dawn of the World
Dawn = Sunrise
Sun / Sun God / Nika / Joyboy
Fire / Flame / Mother Flame
Moon / Physical Moon / Metaphorical Moon (during night, the moon reflects the sun's light )
Night / Darkness / Long period of time without history
Half Moon / Half Breed / Half-Sky Person (assuming they came from the moon)
Half Planet / Red Line

So D can represent the following
Don, Dawn, 🌓, half of the earth bisected by the red line, A person with half human, half lunar genetics, or even if you rotate D to the left you get the sun rising on the horizon (dawn), which coincidentally looks like a straw hat symbol

An example of the "Straw Hat = Sun Rise" idea

[timber wing]

Yeah and Roger was also early. No poseidon and no momo. Maybe Roger thought that's only way he can do, to inspire the others and next generation to found out what really happend in the past and do something about it by saying find his treasure.

[raw scarab]

he realized it was too big for him, but if more people followed joy boy's journey, it would bring forth prophecy 20 years later.

[copper hill]

We also have a lot of overlap between numbers, shapes, and angles
World government symbol looks a lot like a +, the planet of One Piece looks like an X
4 poneglyphs are needed to locate Laughtale, "X marks the spot" is a popular as location of buried treasure in pirate fiction
X is the symbol of friendship with Vivi, etc

[wind marsh]

How is black beard able to get 2 fruits since shamrock is cerberus.

[timber wing]

Yup. Plus he has incurable illness. He will die anyway.

[timber wing]

His race I think. BB race is special.

[copper hill]

Right now all we know is that BB has a "special" body. Could be just him, could be his race, could be a DF

And we also have rumors that BB doesn't sleep

[raw scarab]

the world stories seem to be describing the events going on, not exactly in order just the overall situation. It can make you rethink exactly what was going on:

could have been humans vs lunarians/titans.

gods of the earth and gods of the red line

[copper hill]

Yeah! For all we know that was about humans wanting to be like Lunarians that had access to ancient technology or something

[raw scarab]

it would be VERY smart of oda to be telling us what happened, but still make it obscure. Really the earth god and serpent were fighting men who made the earth industrialized/polluted.

The earth god and lunarians were on the side of the enslaved, and Nika.

why the first age flood happened. Only the titans, lunarians, some sky people and noah could survive. (of course some of the bad humans survived.)

[timber wing]

I'll still gonna lean on the idea that the Serpent of Hell refers to the Red Line.

[raw scarab]

well, it can mean multiple things. The gods of the red line are the lunarians. The titans of the world might also have had a way to build the red line.

the sky people have advanced technology to some degree, including growing weather balls (which could destabilize the earth as they noted.) I wonder if humans captured and forced sky people to build them not agriculture equipment, but great inventions including weapons.

[timber wing]

Yeah, I also think the first inhabitant on Earth was the Titans or Ancient Giants. Or one of the first inhabitants.

[raw scarab]

I mean where did they go. Beings 5x as tall as oars Jr.... It makes sense only things like the ancient weapons could overpower them.

[timber wing]

They are called the country pullers.

[copper hill]

There's also repeated visual imagery of ice and cold killing or harming giants

[timber wing]

Yeah they died at some point.

[raw scarab]

remember when Nami used the weather ball as a weapon, and the sky people got nervous. They were like using our inventions for weapons is a terrible idea.

[copper hill]

So for all we know there was an ice age and most of them died off

[pure raven]

i agree that something has to move countries/island, as the redline is made up of different island, but afak thats just a coname to oars and has no actual story behind it

or am i mistaken?

[raw scarab]

Imu and the world government clearly see advanced technology as a way to subjugate and destroy. And they are clearly human (well....with a bit of fiend stuff going on.)

[copper hill]

Yeah, and Oars had a mistranslation where he was called the Continent puller too, so feels like we accidentally overstated his abilities

[timber wing]

Oars are descendants I think. The OG Ancient Giant are bigger compared to Oars.

[pure raven]

give me a minute

[raw scarab]

yep, oars and king of elbaf were descendants of titans. Taller than normal giants, but not the epic beings we only see remnants of.

[timber wing]

I think the Onigashima was the OG Ancient Giant but not yet confirmed though.

[raw scarab]

yes, one of the last. To build the walls and maybe guard the great tree theree.

[timber wing]

Yeah, explained why Wano have different weather.

[raw scarab]

And I bet when the wall comes down, your going to see the titan body embedded inside. His head could still stick out above the wall.

since he was like a mile tall

[pure raven]

this is the only source about the continent puller i found/the wiki tells about

[timber wing]

Moria also mentioned it but I forgot what chapter

[pure raven]

but something definitly did move land masses in one piece
the red line and ofc other islands are put together

[copper hill]

From what I remember, that's a mistranslation where it should be country puller, but I may be wrong

[raw scarab]

YES, the red line is stated to be made up of hundreds of islands.

So the giants built the red line, and the lunarians covered it in fire. Perhaps that made it unbreakable!

why it was then called the realm of the gods.

[pure raven]

regarding fire, i think thats a mistranslation

[raw scarab]

oh, whats the latest?

[timber wing]

Wonder what's the translation from Viz and Mangaplus on the mural.

[pure raven]

one translation basically said something along the lines of "on the earth was a fire" and then the sentence about humans abused it for their desires
so the fire was meant as being the mother flame

[pure raven]

do we know when it releases?

[timber wing]

Tomorrow

[copper hill]

Sunday

[raw scarab]

I mean the serpent

was there no mention of a serpent of fire, or fire snake?

[pure raven]

some translation yes, some no

[timber wing]

Yeah on the first leak but the tcbscans have different translation.

[raw scarab]

if you look at the picture, you could see it as Xs pushing the red line together, and the lunarians the tattoo down the middle flying.

[copper hill]

There was a person that did an excellent job translating the mural on their own, let me see if I can find it

[raw scarab]

great, months of translation debate lol

[copper hill]

They tried to make it as literal as possible

[raw scarab]

I did see that posted earlier.

[pure raven]

tbf its not just translation but japanese itself, thats why translation is so hard
one piece is hard AF to read even for japanese speaker, cause oda puts soo much wordplay in it, like monogatari

oda is a freak

[raw scarab]

"All of this leads me to translate 業炎の蛇 as Fiery Serpent of Fate. Other possible versions are Serpent of Fiery Fate, Fiery Serpent of Destiny, Serpent of Destined Flame, Serpent of Fated Flame, or even Serpent of Ragnarok."

[copper hill]

There it is

[timber wing]

This is the problem when you're not japanese or can't understand japanese

[copper hill]

Here's the link to the full, extensive message and translation
#manga-theories message

The first scanlation we got implied a lot of things that weren't accurate

[raw scarab]

but I like the idea that there actually wasn't a giant snake, but the giants and lunarians (earth gods and red line gods) were this ancient force.

its why humans keep trying to 'deify' themselves

an ancient force that created the red line (titans/lunarians)

[pure raven]

how i understand this, it implies the motherflame and not earth being on fire?

[copper hill]

Could very well be! Harely text definitely feels more metaphorical

[raw scarab]

I wonder if we are going to get water world type of scenes more, where we see ancient cities of industry covered in ocean

[pure raven]

at first i also thought it meant earth being on fire, or the serpent
but the motherflame needs to be part of it, as its so important to the story and past
as the motherflame is the only reason why the ancient kingdom got all this technology

[pure raven]

1000%

[timber wing]

I think the 1st world basically implies that the Earth God created the Red Line. Thus separating the East and West blue, that's why it says "They never will meet again". West and East blue can't meet again.

[copper hill]

Probably helps that we start treating Harely like the bible or other religous text where the translation can give WILDLY different interpretations

[pure raven]

definitly one way it can be read

[copper hill]

Possibly, although his translation says something more about like "we (the writers of the text) can't meet [them] (the dead)"

[pure raven]

the west and east blue, the different races etc.

[raw scarab]

The Titans and the lunarians, both incredibly powerful, nearly god like beings are basically lost in one piece. They must have played a huge part in the 1st age. They are basically individually as powerful as one or more devil fruits.

[pure raven]

the part with the titans is prob important
i often thought the big skull in onigashima and similar are just decoration, but now with the murals, they prob arent just decoration

[timber wing]

The 2nd world, God of Sea flooded the world and creating the calm belt separating the north and south blue. North and South will never meet again

The 3rd world. Luffy will destroy the Red Line and Shirahoshi will make Calm Belt normal again. "They will meet again". All Seas will meet again creating the All Blue.

[pure raven]

and to put water level back, luffy gonna pull a cork in the floor lmao

im honestly not even making a joke, even if im laughin

[raw scarab]

yes, and the grand line was created by the sea to disrupt mankinds return to domination of all again

[timber wing]

Imu was the one who put the cork

[pure raven]

this is the one and i think only official map from oda, he made tha tin the 90's or something
on the reverse mountain, theres a place called corkwood.
i love this theory as its also about poleshift
heres a video about this
it has subtitles
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udFInWtZOK4&t=1414s

its one of the theory that has some actual facts to it, which is why i love it

[timber wing]

It is japanese?

[pure raven]

yes but english subtitles, grandlinereview more or less translated it but not so in depth

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShuHAUAAbfw

imo, rather watch the drop the pizza version, as its longer, more in depth and well.. its not grandlinereview XD

i reaaaally recommend yall watch it

[timber wing]

Damn, these youtubers stealing content lmao

Just like Ohara kekw.

[pure raven]

i hate his ass but atleast he credited it in the video

[copper hill]

What's the take on Grandline Review? Did he do something specifically that people hate?

[pure raven]

personally i dont like most one piece youtubers, mainly the absolute unhinged spoiling and cringy thumbnails
i only really watch "drop the pizza" "dawn & dusk" and "sawyer7mage" but he sadly stopped making videos

[copper hill]

Yeah, I only really check out Dawn Dusk and Grand Line Review because the former has actually creative ideas and the latter doesn't go for tinfoil crap

[pure raven]

dawn & dusk is cool cause its a japanese guy that hired a woman to translate the video in english
total different vibe than the english one piece youtubers

[copper hill]

Although I think it's an AI voice, but yeah, D&D is good

[timber wing]

Him and Ohara has clickbait-y title and thumbnails. Which is annoying.

[copper hill]

Truth, that's my one gripe with GLR. He's does run a bit of a content mill sometimes

[timber wing]

I'd rather watch Hidden Island that guy is underrated.

Or Tekking

[pure raven]

never watched, will check out

[copper hill]

Drop the Pizza is new to me, will check her out

[pure raven]

i used to dislike him but cant argue that hes smart and makes great points
id just like it more if he had structured videos

[timber wing]

He only has few subscribers but his theories are awesome.

[timber wing]

Yeah same at first. He was kinda cringe but his content is entertaining ngl

[pure raven]

whats another theory yall ppl love?

[copper hill]

Mine used to be that One Piece was post-apocalyptic with our world, haha

Now we know it's post-POST apocalyptic

[pure raven]

hell yea same!

im pretty sure i got some mild psychosis from this theory lmao

my brain is still fried from thinking so much about it

[copper hill]

SAME

Feels like the last two or three days have been the most theorycrafting we've seen in OP in years and years. And that includes when Oda dropped the first Gear 5 panel at the end of a chapter and then took a vacation for like 4 weeks

[pure raven]

god i remember the void month like it was yesterday

[copper hill]

It was like oda tossed a steak into a cage of starving animals, it got rough and people lost their minds, haha

[haughty cloud]

Wagyu steak

[copper hill]

vulcanized steak

[timber wing]

Monkey D. Dragon has a Wind Wind fruit or something.

[copper hill]

That's the real ancient civilization that got wiped out, people that believed the vulcanization theory

[timber wing]

But until now Oda didn't revealed it

[haughty cloud]

Even if your not starving you know you want it

[pure raven]

u think its somehow connected to roger and the egg?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=187k2aQg3hw
here roger won because such a storm suddenly came out of nowhere

so far we seen these sudden storms with dragon, this scene and maybe with the man marked by flames

[timber wing]

Maybe, the sudden storm is really interesting. Not sure if coincidence or some kind of power of Roger or the Egg

[haughty cloud]

I cant form any theory what lily (alabasta old queen) invovement

[timber wing]

Imu: Diddy

[haughty cloud]

Lol

The 2nd world dont got any drawings

[brazen finch]

Protecting and spreading poneglyphs during the void century

[haughty cloud]

I mean why it looks like lily is important to imu. The picture even framed and hanged whilenthe others picture is cut by sword

[pure raven]

well vivi is the ancestor of lily and imu is prob in love with lily/vivi

[brazen finch]

Maybe she betrayed him
She was a secret D I think olny Cobra confirmed Imu's doubts when they met

[timber wing]

Lili is Imu's lover

[pure raven]

and the key figure of the story are black beard, luffy and shirahoshi
so imu has them on target

[haughty cloud]

Imagine the great war is just a love story

[pure raven]

joyboy being looked at as destroyer but also liberator maybe isnt just a perspective thing but actual 2 joyboys/luffy and blackbeard
one is chaos/destruction and one a liberator

[brazen finch]

I think the mural doesn't necessarily represent a big battle but those who fought Imu over the years

[timber wing]

Yeah basically its a repeating cycle on every generation.

[haughty cloud]

the mural says the world end? Not big battle?

[brazen finch]

Well everyone interprets in a certain way nothing is official
Just like how people in the manga understand it differently
Oda writing in 4d

[timber wing]

The first Nika in 1st world was the liberator. He free the slaves.
While Joyboy in 2nd world was the destroyer since he made the world destroyed because of the war.

[haughty cloud]

Imagine imu is a fan of nika 1st world just hate joyboy

[haughty cloud]

Wow this theory is nice. Maybe the god seperate the slaves and the rotayalties. Like from religion they seperate the sinner and pure

[lunar acorn]

Just found a D in the sky, it does resemble luffy's hat tho

[steel axle]

The man marked by flames came from the first or second world because he has the time time fruit or toki used it in them before she traveled to the future

[winter wraith]

brook is a former gods knight ill take my kudos in 3 years when its revealed

[grand nebula]

what if the one piece was the friends we made along the way

[silver echo]

That’s theory is so stupid. You are actually so stupid. Go get some brain cell before you make a theory.

[steel axle]

No I will continue

[steel axle]

We don’t know how the time time fruit works with devil fruit reincarnation, and we don’t exactly know what time period toki is from maybe she was from the first world and when she died, her fruit reincarnated back into the first world and a new user was able to escape like her before the destruction of the first world (or she simply sent them forward but I like the first one more)

[grand nebula]

why so mean 😢

[slim seal]

bro wants to scare people off from posting theories so he can just sit in here talking to himself 🤓

[lunar acorn]

it's interesting how many interpretations of the mural and text there are, even I changed my interpretations since yesterday, but here are the curious hypotheses:

• the first world might have been an always night world, fog everywhere, with the moon as the main power, people of the land wished for a sun, for light and heat, so they reached for the forbidden sun, dreamed a sun god, and some started to extract the undying flame to mimic the power of a sun,
• the hell serpent which enveloped the world and split it into two (hence "they could never meet again") seems to be red line,
• imu is the figure with the crown, he rides zunisha and has ark with the 19 there, he intends to flood the world that's on endless fire,
• second world has the nature giving birth to the devil fruits which manifest people's dreams, to give a hope that the dream of sun god nika would re-exist, and he did, as joy boy,

also how come ennies lobby is nightless and there's always sunlights there?

[wooden remnant]

Absolute master class how that works of multiple interpretations. It's just like how the giants are infighting about the true nature of Nika and what the texts and murals actually mean

[copper hill]

yeah, this was needlessly critical. @steel axle 's speculation is perfectly fine

[copper hill]

Yeah, Oda basically dropped a brand new religious text on us and now there's like three different main sects

[paper hemlock]

Ussop will become king of snipers

[pulsar zealot]

Theory piece is back after this chapter 😂

[dark hazel]

do y’all the “enslaved” and “forbidden star” in the first world could have something to do with enel? since we never really get info on WHY he wanted to go to the moon. and a lot of people have been saying he might reappear in some way, shape, or form soon

although i’m not sure what “enslaved” would have to do with that

[dark hazel]

whoa THIS is an amazing theory

i 100% subscribe to this for now

[copper hill]

Slaves and freedom are two major concepts in One Piece that get shown as existing in all of time. The forbidden star could represent a literal star, as in outer space, or it could mean the sun itself since in OP the sun represents freedom, or it could mean a powerful resource such as nuclear fusion/the mother flame

As far as Enel goes, the Ark Maxim depcited seems to have something to do with the past but Enel is not shown.
For all we know the Ark Maxim was fueled by the mother flame back then.

[dark hazel]

yeah the more i think about it the more i feel like the three worlds were more metaphorical than i may have thought

[loud arch]

To me, the enslaved reaching for the forbidden star is the story of the fishman wanting to live under the sun and out of the sea.

[copper hill]

Could very well be!

[iron loom]

I don’t know if it’s specifically this but I definitely think you nailed it.

History repeats itself seemingly so,

[main void]

My interpretation of “yet the ones who slew the sun deified themselves” could be completely wrong but could it refer to Imu and the founding kings killing joyboy and then becoming the celestial dragons, who are basically like gods in one piece? (Status wise)

[copper hill]

I believe this is correct

People are making some odd connections because Harley the text is above the mural and those aren't the same time periods

[loud arch]

You mean the mural is just the void century?

[main void]

When was the Harley text written?

[copper hill]

Close- the mural was made during or around the void century. But Harley contains prophecy of the current time line

[copper hill]

That's a great question, but it seems to go back. I think saul said it's their most ancient book

Here's a real world poem from Norse Mythology

[pulsar salmon]

yggdrasil could be the adam tree in dis case

[ivory urchin]

Any theory on why this moon has the same pattern as the serpent?

[copper hill]

1. That could be the tail of the serpent obscured by the book panels
2. could mean a great scar or gorge
3. could represent something, someone said it was a wreath symbol

[main void]

Idk why but serpents have me thinking of Jorgunmandr from Norse mythology for some reason, and jorgunmandr makes me thing of the red line since it goes all the way around the world in OP

[loud arch]

I know we’re in elbaph, so most people are looking at Norse mythology, but I really think taking a look at Shinto gods will end up beneficial for theories.

Like Amaterasu/Ame-no-Uzume, Tsukiyomi, Susanoo, and Inari.

https://www.realmofhistory.com/2023/06/16/major-japanese-gods-and-goddesses/

[main void]

Oh yeah this is valid since Oda is Japanese so he would most likely know a bunch of Shinto myths

[dark hazel]

if i could heart this a million times i would

that’s so cool

[loud arch]

Especially the story of Ame-no-Uzume

[dark hazel]

leaning towards 3. since we’re all considering religious themes and elbaf has so much to do with mythology, maybe it could be an allusion to adam and eve?

[proud crystal]

This is stupid, but it looks like it has on tiny shades.

Ah, missed what channel we're in.
I do think it could be a tail, too.

[ivory urchin]

Oda definitely hiding some stuff behind the text boxes

[loud arch]

And Franky

[copper hill]

The real conspiracy theory I'm wondering about is how did we get like 4 chapters without a break and a 5th on the way

[pure raven]

Hey guys, I have a theory—it's my first one, so let me know what you think.

Based on what we see in the mural, I believe the Lunarians came to Earth in search of resources and discovered an unlimited energy source within the planet. This energy, called the "Forbidden Sun," is actually the Mother Flame that Vegapunk mentioned.

The Lunarians defeated humanity, enslaved them, and forced them to send this energy to the moon. In the mural, we can see humans "throwing" spheres of light upward.

They also created a race of slaves called "Half-Moon Men" (I'm Italian, so I don't know the correct English term), who are depicted with halos above their heads. Oda seems to divide the angelic figures into two groups—those with Lunarian wings and those without, the latter being the Half-Lunarians.

Among them was Joyboy, who, along with other Half-Lunarians, formed a crew—the first pirates—and rebelled against Im. Joyboy had a halo on his head but hid it with the straw hat, just like the Fishmen covered their slave mark with the sun tattoo.

Let me know

I forgot to mention that the energy source is at the center of the Earth.

That is why there is something similar to an elevator

[copper hill]

Interesting theory. Thanks for sharing!

[hushed linden]

Did blackbeard inherit the earth god fruit because he has the gura gura no mi (which causes earthquakes, tsunamis, shock waves, etc) Is he from this distinct lineage of the earth god? When they mention the earth god is it Blackbeard?

[dark hazel]

i like this a lot. do you have any idea as to why there are so few lunarians left?

[dusky acorn]

Loki's Connection to Eustass Kid THEORY

Mentorship

As known in the story, out of the captain trio, both Law and Luffy have had mentor figures when they were younger. Luffy had Shanks, and Law had Corazon. But Kid is currently the only one of the trio who stands out as an outlier, in this aspect.

How is it that Kid doesn't have anyone to have inherited his ideals from, depite have such strong conviction in them? I believe there actually is someone who brought these morals upon him, and acted as this mentor figure to Kid.

Accursed, Pirating Prince

I believe this is none other than Loki, the accursed prince, who had been out at sea for 8 whole years. This is plenty of time to have ventured into the South Blue, in order to have met Kid.

The duration of Loki's voyage would have been from the time Kid was 9 years old, to 17 years old.
Loki would have been from 16 years old, to 19 years old himself. (When converting from giant years to human years.)

Kid may be the "older" one now, but back then, Loki would have not only been more mature, but this 2.6 billion berry bounty figure would have made him incredibly powerful compared to the probable 0 million bounty Kid, at the time.

Loki would have served as an excellent mentor figure, to have an impact on the young Kid.

Rampaging Before Luffy

After all, it has already confirmed by Ace that Kid was an infamous pirate at least 2 years before Luffy, when he was 19.

But Kid could very well have been a pirate even prior, potentially even at the same exact age of 17, to parallel with Luffy.

Parelleling Luffy

Loki was defeated and captured by Shanks 6 years ago. Kid would have been 17 years old, 6 years ago. The same exact age Luffy was, when he started his own pirating journey.

If Kid admired the pirate Loki, it's possible that Loki's defeat to Shanks is responsible for Kid choosing his own journey to become a pirate, and what made him acquire his hatred and targeting of Shanks, before Kid ever even lost an arm.

As much as I love Kid, if he is supposed to be the less successful version of Luffy, it somewhat fits for his own mentor to be defeated by Luffy's own mentor. Or even to have fought each other in the first place.

Moral Similarities

• Kid and Loki share many similarities with each other. Both have a hatred towards Shanks, (and by extension would hate Shamrock, beyond what he's going to do to Elbaph in this arc).

• Both consider Celestial Dragons "Scum", (literally using the exact same word in Japanese, "kuzu / クズ")

• Both are warriors following the traditional style of Elbaph, taking pleasure in razing areas to the ground, pillaging, and mass-killing people.

Kid's Knowledge on Giants

Back in Wano, Kid seemed very aware of what a giant's actual size is supposed to be, from up close.

He knew that the ancient giant replicated Haccha was at an even greater size than what a modern giant is actually supposed to be. This would make sense if Kid had actually spent enough time around them to know what the average size is supposed to be, such as with Loki.

"Arm of the Giants"

If Kid took a liking to and spent time with someone like Loki, this may be why Kid prefers to so often fight using his devil fruit power to specifically create giant-sized limbs. He could have learnt this kind of fighting style from a giant himself.

Back when we first introduce ourselves with Kid, Luffy even says this, about his own similar technique. Only for Kid to create a very same arm of the "giants", in the exact next page.

"MET 865"

Speaking of Kid's "giant" arms, on his very first Punk Gibson, there was a very specific triple digit number on it, marked "865".

And what was in Chapter 865?

That's right, the first ever showing of Elbaph, 63 years ago, the year Loki was born.

Back when this chapter first released years ago, I had already noticed this connection to Elbaph, but didn't think there was much to make of between Kid and Elbaph. But low and behold, now he has gone there.

It seems the potential connections with Kid and Elbaph, alongside a possible relationship with Loki is becoming ever-evident.

Kid's Tattoo

There still exists an unexplained tattoo on Kid's arm, which strangely resembles some of the ones found on Elbaph warriors. Could Elbaph have to do with why this tattoo has been imprinted onto Kid?

Once is happenstance, twice is a coincidence, but three or more times forms a pattern.

Reaction to Elbaph

Kid had an interesting reaction when he realised they've finally reached Elbaph. He seemed very shocked, and started sweating bullets. But why? Does Elbaph mean something for him?

But it's not like Kid is obligated to fight with the locals of the island. It's simply a choice on whether he wants to make them his enemy or not.

Just like Wano, Kid didn't go around picking fights and harming people randomly, not even when he was at the flower capital party.

Could Kid's reaction imply a deeper connection to Elbaph, and how he knows he would have to go against the entire nation, because he's on Loki's side? In order to free the man his younger self admired?

Merging Flashbacks

If this hypothesis is the case, then similar to Bonney and Kuma, Loki and Kid's flashback may be intertwined as well. There's a slim chance they met somewhere at sea, before Loki was captured.

But I think it was most likely prior to Kid becoming a pirate, by Loki actually arriving at Kid's home island of Kutsukku, at one point.
https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/Kutsukku_Island

Complete Summary of Loki and Kid's Similarities to One Another

https://imgur.com/a/d9O4QE1

Kid and Loki's Location

The underworld where Loki resides also happens to be Kid's most likely location right now, as he is a "criminal who tried to do battle with Elbaph."

The reason Kid still hasn't integrated into Elbaph is simply because he hasn't figured out about the Sun Realm on his own yet.

I believe this will be the beginning of seeing this underlying connection between the two, a reveal that will surprise many readers, but make a lot of sense in hindsight.

@cobalt igloo @slate burrow @weak arrow @night jewel @modest skiff @craggy pumice @weak arrow @polar bison @dark palm @chilly lantern

My efforts to connect every new character to Eustass Kid continue

[cobalt igloo]

https://tenor.com/view/popcorn-getting-comfy-watching-eating-eat-gif-14851045

[copper hill]

This is VERY good!

[desert quest]

RADICAL!!

[pure raven]

I thought that once Im rose to power, he killed all the exponents out of revenge.
The theory was much longer and more detailed, but I didn’t want to bore you.
If you’re interested, I can send it to you later in private.

[dark hazel]

yeah i’d love to see it

[worthy dagger]

He wanted to rule over a new world as God, but sumbled upon vestiges of the old world instead.
He's probably gonna be relevant at some point, but unless he's found Uranus up there, I doubt he'll be very impactful.

[pure raven]

First World
The Earth is a land of fire due to a massive energy source located at its very center, called the "Forbidden Sun." An almost inexhaustible energy source that should not be within human reach, but which mankind has exploited to build an extremely advanced technological kingdom—so advanced it appears almost magical. However, this seemingly perfect world hides all the problems of modern societies, where a small elite has managed to use this boundless energy for their own personal gain.
One day, in addition to humans, the Lunarians (as humans called them) also arrived, traveling in a flying ship. These were immensely powerful beings from the Moon, who were forced to abandon it due to a lack of resources, seeking refuge on the Blue Planet (as written in Eneru’s mini-stories). Once they reached Earth, a tremendous war broke out between the two factions, ultimately leading to the victory of the "angels," who then became known as Gods. Using this newly discovered, incredible Earthly technology, the Gods created copies of themselves using their own blood—clones called the Half Moon (Semiluna). These individuals were created solely to be slaves, tasked with extracting the powerful energy found in the Earth's core and sending it back to the Moon, now a desolate wasteland.
The slaves then prayed for the arrival of a deity, the only one capable of defeating these beings from the Moon—the God of the Sun. The God then "arrived" and fought against the Lunarians' forces, represented by the God of the Earth and the Serpent of Fire. During this terrible battle, ancient civilization was destroyed, and everything fell into darkness. The result of the battle was the creation of the Red Line, designed to divide the people and prevent a revolution against the ruling power.
First Division.

Second World
From this great Flame, an immense tree sprouted from the Earth. Through its enormous power, it spread its fruits across the world—the Sun of the Earth had sown the seeds of war.
Yet, there is still hope in the world of One Piece. No one desires another bloody war, and so three factions come together to decide the fate of humanity:
The Lunarians, powerful but repentant of their past actions, now seeking peace.
The Humans, too greedy to resist their thirst for power.
The Half Moon (Semiluna), who, thanks to their leader Joyboy, had managed to secure a small place in the political society of that era.
Joyboy, longing for freedom, rejected his origins as a slave, covering the halo on his head with a Straw Hat— a symbol of peace and freedom.
The dream of peace held by the Lunarians and Half Moon was ultimately shattered by the humans’ hunger for power. Their ambition led them to steal the Sun’s power, seeking to elevate themselves to the status of Gods.
Despite fierce resistance from the Earth's people, the Lunarians, and even Joyboy’s pirates—who by then had inherited the power of the Sun God by eating its fruit—it was all in vain.
Im won. The 20 human rulers inherited the Earth and ascended as Gods, committing genocide against the Lunarians, who had once enslaved them.
Faced with these horrific events, the King of the Seas decided to punish mankind for its unforgivable transgression. He cursed the Devil Fruits (thus earning them this name), banishing them forever from the oceans. Then, using the power of the Ancient Weapon, he created the Grand Line—a second division, following the Red Line, which split the seas into four distinct parts.
Second Division.

Third World
After chaos, darkness.
To ensure that no one could follow in the footsteps of those who had sacrificed themselves for the freedom of the world’s people, the newly elected World Government decided to erase the history of those 100 years of struggle.
However, it is impossible to quench mankind’s thirst for freedom.
The will of Joyboy’s pirates remained alive. Their descendants, the Half Moon (D.), inherited their dream of justice—the Will of D. They hear the voice that would later guide Roger to the One Piece, allowing him to read the Poneglyphs.
One day, the "God of the Sun" will return and save all the people.

Oda frequently portrays former slaves in his work covering the marks of their captivity with tattoos (such as Fisher Tiger or Hancock herself).

[haughty cloud]

Hmm i thought joyboy lose cause someone betray him

[haughty cloud]

Nice theory and in the end the sun god destroy all the bounderies

[thick grotto]

most probably imu, who could’ve been part of his crew. but i used to think the same

[cunning iron]

That's a great theory! I agree with most of it!

[chrome badger]

I disagree that kidd had a mentor. I think he didn't and thats why hes so much more of a loose cannon than the strawhats.

[pure raven]

really nice

i gotta add something tho, so far its only confirmed that birkans, shandorians and skypians were from moon and came cause of resource depletion on the moon

the only thing about lunarians we know, is that they lifed on the redline, possibly as god.
maybe lunarians are the 3 moon folks that came here and then to never not have resources anymore, created the lunarian race, so each and every member has an unlimited energy source

[dusky acorn]

Prior to this arc, I would have said the same as well. I never saw any suitable pirate figure that would have mentored Kid, and for him to take after.

I'm simply calling it like I see it: A former pirate that's more veteran than Kid with a very similar mindset to Kid.

This is a detail I didn't find a good place to mention in my original post, but Loki is also a character that IS willing to teach other people his ways.

Refer to this, how he was lecturing to Shaggy what they should have done instead, in the situation they experienced.

He's trying to make Shaggy to be more like him, precisley like what he could have done to Kid, in the past.

If anything else didn't align, such as Loki not having a long voyage of 8 years at sea, or Kid not literally going to Elbaph right now, I would have still retained a similar belief to you.

But things turned out in a particular way that allowed this theory to happen. I'm sorry if this bursts any bubbles, but I feel there's some form of legitamacy that will come to fruition, by pressing on with this theory.

[hollow dock]

I see some parallels between wano arc and final war.
Kurozumi Orochi ruled wano similarly Imu rules the world
Orochi tricks oden to his death similarly Imu might have used some tricks to kill joyboy(remeber recently when emeth released joyboy haki Imu literally got PTSD)
Oden gave prophecy of a pirate will save the nation similarly I think joyboy gave the 3rd world prophecy during his defeat in 2nd world
Orochi tried every thing to stop the prophecy and also killed many samurai similary imu hides the sun god nika fruit eliminates powerfull races like lunarians.

Only 1 problem orochi had kaido but we don't who is helping IMU.
My theory is assumption on Imu is weak like orochi she literally got PTSD from just joyboy's haki I can't imagine she defeated joyboy. I might be wrong though

[raw scarab]

Still making me puzzle, the two moons that have each one element of the fire serpent. One with an X and the other with the laurel pattern.

These feel connected to both the titans and lunarians.

[raw scarab]

I think lunarians are the key. We simply don't have enough details to know what part they played. It makes it difficult to pin down who was fighting who.

[knotty hollow]

Guys I have a question. Shinobu Devil fruit aged Momonosuke. Momonosuke resembles Oden very much so, if one day Momonosuke trains well and gain strong haki and strength compare to shinobu (which is very likely) will he undo the devil fruit powers on him? And if no maybe Sir Oda would like to keep Momo adult. Then is there a possibility that someone like Bonney or other could change age of old people like Garp to being young again? I saw this possibility when Bonney fruit power was seen but haki stands above all so just curious about this

[raw scarab]

Is there a nuance here between 'the Earth' and 'earth' in the first line? Given the other moons we see in the mural, I am wondering if there either the first age may be referencing a different world, and the forbidden star is The Earth. Is the dream the giant child had really picking up the memories from somebody else, who was not of this world.

depending how far Oda wants to go with this, were there other planets, and were they destroyed by some force. Could that have played a role? I may need to evolve my theories. Everybody is adding great details that make me reinterpret.

[lone hedge]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/164972150149611521/655855222702342147/image0.png

[dark hazel]

so for your first question, i don’t think so. haki increases your DEFENSE against devil fruits (and really your defense against everything else too), but it doesn’t actually NEGATE the effect of a devil fruit. sea prism stone does that. i’m not entirely sure what would happen if someone put sea prism stone on momonosuke (aside from him losing his dragon power) because we don’t see many fruits that work the same way as shinobu’s

[dark hazel]

for your second question, it’s a common misconception that bonney’s fruit only changes her age. it was revealed in egghead that her fruit allows her to access the powers of any future that she considers to be realistic/achievable. this is why we got the absolute BANGER gear 5 duo curb stomp at the end of egghead

[lunar acorn]

what are the chances blackbeard is of the half-moon or crescent-moon descent?

at any rate he's not who roger was waiting for

[atomic quarry]

WhiteBeard implies that the person Roger is waiting will unite the peole (the world) agianst whatever final boss there is. Teach clearly does not possess that ability to do so with all the things he has done.

[raw scarab]

I agree with the implication. One thing to note both about Central American Sun God stories, as well as Norse Ragnarok, is its a cycle. Enslavement leads to liberation, and liberation leads to enslavement.

[lunar acorn]

conqueror of three worlds, ragnaraku - coincidence?

[raw scarab]

When BB and Luffy first meet, luffy is expressing his hatred of the food, and BB the love of it. They flip on the quality of the drink.

[raw scarab]

I do see a connection. Three worlds also has significance in eastern philosophy. It can reference past, present and future. It also can be connected to the celstial, the earthy, and the underworld. In buddhism, it is connected with desire, form and emptiness.

BB could be the third piece there, the void.

The 'Three Worlds' mention all three of these cosmic stages (desire, void...)

[atomic quarry]

Kaido obviously know about this Mural or the ancient history... possibly passed down by Rock D xebec.

[raw scarab]

not sure if rocks knew. We need to see more of him. His strength is not in question, but his intelligence and execution was by his own pirates. But I do like the idea of Rocks, Roger and Garp representing three worlds of the Void, the desire and the order.

[boreal portal]

Hi I have a theory about a Luffy power up, I don't know if anyone has raised it before.

And if the God of Liberation and the God of Destruction are phases of the awakening of the fruit? That means that Luffy now has the phase of liberation but there would be another phase of "destruction." Thanks.

[kindred cobalt]

Because the official translation is now out, the first world verse is now more clear, mankind went to the center of the earth or attempted to, and I think this caused a massive eruption or catastrophe because they hit magma or did something

The people at the time were running off of geothermal energy, and I think later they transitioned to solar energy or whatever the mother flame was made of

[raw scarab]

I agree the translation def. leans towards this direction. I feel like the earth god and the serpent are reactions toward this harvesting (not the sun god appearing.)

sort of like the hawaiin islands, you have this magma spitting action deep within the earth creating a stream of islands all connected that enveloped the world.

[raw scarab]

One other thing is we see the Kouzuki family forging poneglyphs in pretty much lava like conditions. It makes sense the red line is of a similar material, which erupted and why the red line is so hard to damage.

[kindred cobalt]

I still do not understand for the life of me how putting deep holes in the earth (Lulusia kingdom and Enies Lobby etc) makes the water level go up by 200 meters

[raw scarab]

Wano also has lava very close to the surface (some digging, but its right there.

[copper hill]

Whoa ho ho, official translation is out and we're seeing a lot more implications of First World man digging "star power" out of the earth. Also Earth God owns the Serpent of Fire?

[kindred cobalt]

Serpent of fire to me implies magma or lava spewed in an eruption and the ash coated the world and sky for some time, a mega-eruption basically

[copper hill]

Yeah, real real curous on when the original Birkens migrated to Earth

[mighty moon]

ya also could mean the creation of the red line

[copper hill]

My take as well, a lot of the "gods" are metaphors in the first world

also a lot of lower-case g gods vs God

[crystal minnow]

prolly the red line

[kindred cobalt]

If it was well before the void century its entirely possible, and if Lunarians came from the moon, they probably landed on the Red Line

[copper hill]

Also I like how the official release lightened the contrast a bit, easier to see the top part, ha

[crystal minnow]

pretty sure the red line is just deadass a serpent

[raw scarab]

I am thinking humans have to live underground or in caves with artificial suns potentially?

[crystal minnow]

Imu is only talked abt at the end of world 2

[kindred cobalt]

The only thing I think could be a problem with that (I know this is only a comic and some things are not entirely realistic) is with how much magma you would need to create a world spanning continent that is higher than any other point on the planet is it would completely deplete the earth of magma or rather there would be a lot of earthquakes from the crust sinking down

[copper hill]

Ancient tech! for all we know they melted hollowed out moon rocks, haha

But it definitely seems like whatever they were using in The First World is analogous to light and heat

[raw scarab]

franky is kind of hiding it, but I wonder if fishman island was a sanctuary from darkness, since the red line went over the eve tree (but did not kill it). You can see the lightning bolt striking at the base of the tree, opening a path of light for survivors.

[kindred cobalt]

Or big brain moment, the entire world was on level with the red line, and this eruption/earthquake chain made the whole world sink in level except for the red line, hence why its so jagged at some points. But we also need an explanation for the reverse mountain

[copper hill]

Also could explain some of those deep sea currents if there are massive tunnels (mines, former civilization) filled with water underground. Might be worth re-reading the entrance to Fishman Island part where they see magma from undersea volcanoes

[kindred cobalt]

Fuck Im gonna have to re-read the series now that this revelation happened, was gonna save it for once they leave elbaf but I cant

[crystal minnow]

is the forst in elbaf?

the tree thing

[kindred cobalt]

Elbaf is the adam tree except for purgatory down below where its snow mountains, so Franky was walking on a branch of the tree where the mural is

[crystal minnow]

i wonder if it was home to the forest god

[kindred cobalt]

Possibly, but it seems like the gods in question right now are more metaphorical than anything

[raw scarab]

reverse mountain might have been carved by an ancient weapon. The symbols there appear to be of the Shandora's.

although, I dont think the ancient weapons were weapons, they were the moon people potentially try to help terraform a badly damaged planet.

[crystal minnow]

they prolly just had a devik fruit or sum

which is the equivalent in one piece ig

the demons tamed are prolly just the elbaf animals?

[kindred cobalt]

New verses: The First World
Within the earth there was fire.
Mankind succumbed to greed and touched the forbidden star.
The enslaved prayed, and the sun god appeared.
The earth god raged, and with its serpent of hellfire, shrouded the world in death and darkness.
And they will never meet.

The Second
World
Within the void there was breath.
The forest god tamed demons and the sun spread the fires of war. Those of the half-moon dreamed.
Those of the moon dreamed.
Man killed the sun and became god, and the sea god stormed.
And they will never meet.

The Third World
Within the chaos there was emptiness.
The inconvenient remnants recall the promised day and hear the voice of the half-moon.
The sur god dances and laughs, guiding the world to its end.
The sun returns and brings a new morning.
And they will surely meet.

[crystal minnow]

Hmmm??? Are the rements the people luffy talk to when he uses voice of all things?

yah

thts what it is

So ig Coby a D confirmed

[kindred cobalt]

The inconvenient remnants to me sound like the figures in the third world picture who will fight Imu and the demons, and the voice refers to the poneglyphs keeping history in the shadows

[raw scarab]

YA KNOW, we see people in boats, and they are touching buildings of civilizations, below the buildings are gears and little star pieces. This might be an island generator, and they lost control or something happened. It wrapped around the planet, eventually striking itself and creating a mountain. That is why their are gears in it, its a magma into island machine.