manga-theories

[versed bane]

When you realize chopper's full name sounds like a devil fruit

"Toni Toni" no mi "Chopper"

[modest pine]

Ton(i)y Ton(i)y? I UNDERSTAND OH MY

[obsidian thunder]

!therioes

[umbral summit]

Why does blackbeard want ancient weapons?

[hidden swan]

– That's cool

[hearty charm]

why is this channel sometimes lower effort than the serious channel

[harsh jacinth]

More power 😁

[wind flower]

Yk when Cavendish sleeps hakuda comes out, could that be the reason blackbeard never sleeps cos of something similar inside him esp with all the 3 soul theories

and possibly how shanks got his scar cos i dont see how BB with no fruit was able to scar a HAKIman that was a rival to mihawk at that time

[grizzled forge]

It is a nice channel

[dusky acorn]

Eustass Kid's Return with Loki, vs Holy Knights

I would like to propose the theory that Kid will make his comeback from the lowest plane of Elbaph, the Underworld.

Eliminating Planes

In order to prove Kid is currently in the Underworld, I would first like to eliminate the possibilities of where Kid is not present.

Although he was last seen by the coast of Elbaph, it is nearly certain that he has yet to have made the rounds in Sun or Heaven planes of Elbaph.
This is thanks to the dialogue from the Giant guards. They did not even think to assume that the holy knights are Kid Pirates, the Straw Hat pirates were seemingly their only assumption.

Speculation of Transpired Events

I believe that after Kid and his crew were defeated, Dorry and Broggy threw them all down into the Underworld.
(This would have been without any sea stone shackles for Kid of course, as unbeknowest to them, he was actually still alive, and able to recuperate from this situation.)

Judgement of Kid's Crime

A very vital part of the theory, as the Kid Pirates are absolutely now judged as "criminals", by Elbaph's standards.

In addition, Loki even describes the other spectral-looking humans that have been banished to the Underworld as "ones who tried to do battle with Elbaph", perfectly befitting for Kid and his crew.

Punishing Warriors

From the giants' perspective, throwing the crew to the Underworld to rot and perish away is the best they can do for such criminals, as they believe warriors are defined by how they die. As such, not allowing them all to die from the Red Hair conflict but due to a lack of resources in the Underworld would be quite suitable.

Kid's Recovery

It has been 3 days since the Red Hair incident, so as long as Kid has awoken sometime during those 3 days, he should be back to full health by now just by eating, beating up gigantic beasts, sleeping, and more eating. Just as he was able to do in Udon prison, after his past Emperor defeat.

That's about as far as I can percievably take my theory right now.

Once this Shanks-like character was plotted into this arc, I immediately felt like Kid's potential increased exponentially.

If not for him, I wasn't sure what else he could do, or what else would grind his angry little metal gears, on this island?

For example, trying to pick a fight with all the giants for destroying his ship would just be a curbstomp against him, after all. 😅

I would personally be even happier if it turns out Kid has some sort of flashback or backstory with this cloaked man. It could even be the catalyst for why Kid may have always had his sights set on "Red-Hair".

Kind of a derail, but I hate the idea I always see thrown around thinking he originally went after Shanks just because he believed him to be the "weakest Yonko". If one actually thinks about Kid's known actions & personality for a couple seconds, that completely doesn't make sense.

I would love if this evil Shanks did something sinister that negatively affected child Kid a lot, and perhaps Kid just doesn't know there's two of him, thus mixing up which one was actually responsible for whatever this evil one did. Especially considering the actual Shanks didn't always have that eye scar.

[analog drift]

I feel the shanks on Elbath is actually baulder and when Loki kills him, we start the final arc in one piece. Because killing baulder brings in Ragnarok.

[sudden heart]

I was think that one piece was on a moon. But what if it's in the center of the earth?

[chrome badger]

I think Grandline Review put out the idea that Kid is around the age and from the sea where the WG killed a bunch of children that could have been Roger's child (Ace) so thats why he dislikes Rogers crew and it appears Shanks was part of Rogers crew is at least known by a lot of people.

[swift idol]

Could otama control the gorosei? we know it work on SMILE fruits, but I don't know if it was ever confirmed to work on regular zoans. Also, if it can work on zoans, could she technically use it on luffy?
also it is still quite unclear if the gorosei are zoans or smth else (possibly something of Imu's creation)

[dusk viper]

I think it only works on normal (animal) zoans, not mythical or maybe even prehistoric zoans

[graceful helm]

Louis Arnauts warning has to do with an elbaphian holidays\traditions. We know of at least 1 elbaph holiday where people have to fast for 12 days without food. (Winter Solstice)

I think that if the tradition of Elbaphian holiday is broken it can mean punishment or death for those who break it. It would explain why the orphans on elbaph had to fast for 12 days even though they weren't giants and would also explain what Louis meant when he said don't stay to long.

Dont stay to long or you might be subject to a weird Elbaph custom. Using the winter solstice as an example, I cant see luffy fasting for 12 days and this could cause an issue with giants.

[swift idol]

haki could also override it (like what law did) but the issue is if you eat one you don’t have the will to overcome it

[winter ocean]

I’d say even if it could work on Zoans, it wouldn’t work on someone with a certain level of strength/ Haki

Like how law could dispel the malady disease. Or didn’t bother using the body swap power on doffy and Fuji

[keen trellis]

extremely long theory incoming

[swift idol]

I would agree, but the issue is that with all those examples the people retained their will to break free.

[keen trellis]

dr hiriluk is rocks, who went into hiding in drum island after the god valley incident, maybe something happen in god valley where he lost his abilities, so with that he prob lost his purpose on being the most powerful and taking over the world. Whatever happened during god valley couldve led to both roger and rocks getting the same fatal illness. I assume rocks survived longer than roger due to his change of profession on being a doctor to figure out ways to cure himself, which didn’t end up working in the long run, but definitely made him outlast roger. I think during this time in his hiding in drum island, he managed to save the life of a young kid (teach) from death(i might be really reaching on this part, but couldve been surgery that made teach be able to contain multiple devil fruit abilities). But since Rocks saved the kid’s life, teach was forever grateful for it and wanted to help him because of it. With that eventually either teach finds out or rocks tells him about his past, which makes Teach want to go out to fulfill the dream that Rocks’ initially wanted. The only reason rocks doesn’t want to go himself atp is he wants to fully heal himself and potentially everyone. Maybe he had a change of heart due to being able to save Teach. So Teach sails off to go join Whitebeard due to him being pretty much Rocks’ old first mate of sorts, but eventually realizes whitebeard and rocks’ dreams were very much different, so when whitebeard’s crew found the yami yami no mi (which i assume was Rocks’ fruit), teach with no hesitation takes the fruit for himself.

So the reason Blackbeard comes back to Drum Island is not for some random reason but because it was his home and wanting to show his mentor, that he has his fruit and possibly would want to take rocks with him, but as he finds out that Rocks died, he gets furious and attacks the island which makes wapol and his people escape. And it would make it quite ironic that Blackbeard didn’t even realize the island he just destroyed was the place Rocks was trying to save himself

it also helps the fact that hiriluk looks very similar to rocks and he has such a big fascination with pirates with not even being a pirate himself, it would be quite poetic that the once most evil man in the world would eventually inspire someone like chopper to save the world of illnesses in the long run

and i also have a prediction that luffy could very get the same illness that roger and rocks had, if chopper would to be able to heal luffy, it would fulfill his arc and it would be extremely emotional that he saved his captain from the same illness his mentor had that he wasn’t able to save when he was younger

there’s also a theory out there that hiriluk was a member of rocks’ crew, the only reason i don’t believe that’s the case is that like with every D members’ death, they had a smile on their face and guess who had a smile on their face before they died

unless rocks had two d members on his crew, him included, i find that very unlikely to be the case

[lunar acorn]

does anyone here have a good theory on what's the meaning behind these three skulls and whether they're connected in any way between oars'es, tot musica, and bb's colors?

also whether there's any connection between oars and oars jr. horns, and onigashima skull with same shape horns, and potentially even kaido himself (again, similar horns)

[winter ocean]

3 skills are cool

[late elm]

oda likes skulls

[late elm]

hopefully there are more revelations about the giants ancestery in elbaph. We found out about the oni race that kaido and yamato are part of in wano which explains their horns kind of and we also saw giant children with horns in the owl library. Unless they were like bands they wear under their hair or something the horns were sticking straight out of their heads and look similar to kaido and yamatos which to me indicates they have some ancient giant blood or something of the like.

the ones on the boy look very similar in curviture to kaidos and the one on the girl look similar to yamatos so maybe the style of horns depends on the sex of the person with the ancient giants ancestry.

Same goes with oars and little oars jr They both have the wider more curved horns becuase they are male.

Black maria is kind of a wild card but she is from wano and is obviously much much bigger than most of hte wano natives but shares horns similar to yamato and the little giant girl becuase she is female

[late elm]

Kiaidos horns look more similar to the giant boys horns when he was younger as well. Still has the cuviture at the bottom going upward but its less pronounced than his older age.

In comparison to Kaido at age 59 oars must have been much younger in giant yhears when he died. Little oars jr is only 72 right now which is the equivelant of like mid 20s but he has a much shorter set of horns than kaido does at 59.

Until we get more info dumps from elbaph about the heritage of giants than we dont know for certain but right now the working theory is that all giants evolved from the ancient giants but the genetics for true ancient giants has lived on in some populations which is why we get people like black maria and kaido and the giant kids with horns. They are less common than regular giants but are still around in some capacity. I guess you can think of it like a common ancestor for humans or like hundreds of thousands of years ago Homosapiens and Neanderthals would mate together even though they were technically different species and neanderthals would die off but some of their dna is still present in living humans today.

[hearty charm]

doesnt it not work on any natural zoans

i wonder about momonosukes fruit though

[chrome badger]

Just because how the Rocks Pirates have been set up its believable to me that multiple d clan members would serve under him.

[keen trellis]

tbf i checked all the rocks pirates and none of them look like hiriluk

the only other guy people were thinking at first was a dude with 4 arms which im pretty sure was already shown as a zombie with a few other rocks pirates at thriller bark

and also why would we prefer the more boring option anyways😭

[timid drift]

I don't know if this has been tackled already, but do you guys think Blackbeard's cocky side is genuine, or it is a false lead for the enemy to be the one to get cocky and Blackbeard attacks but this technique just so happened to have gone very badly with Magellan?

[fierce thorn]

Has anyone brought up the thoughts of laugh tale being based on Shangri La?

With Elbaph being close, one Shangri La myth could tie in, which would fit some of the most common Elbaph theories.

One of the myths about shangri la was that people aged slower whilst there, but when they leave that lost time catches up with them.

I think that plot detail would work well here, since it wouldn't affect the straw hats and would explain why giants can live a long time, especially our oldest than old giant who just may have not left the island for a long long time.

I like this idea because it means that there is no worry of this affecting the straw hats since they've only just arrived but would mean we could see a young version of a rogers crew member who hasn't left elbaph in a long time.

Side note, since it would be a natural phenomenon it could also be what Kureha studied to prolong her life, maybe on elbaph it soaks into the skin but Kureha takes it directly

[lunar acorn]

Ok, the oni race makes sense and explains a lot of these horns, but what about the 3-skulls, I feel like this is way more important and still unexplained
I feel like 900 years ago there was an ancestor of Oars and his remainder is that skull of onigashima
I feel like that Grand Oars and Tot Musica both having the tripple skull symbols suggest they were part of something larger, darker, demonic, incredibly evil and powerful
That battle of the void century could've been a battle between 3 factions
Imu could be just an unhappy side effect creation of whatever was the final battle between joy and dark
Almost feels like Rocks intended to resurrect the dark, he failed, and now BB is attempting to do the same
Have you guys noticed that literally only 3 pirate crews consisted out of small number specific characters without any randoms or fodder? Rocks crew, BB crew and Strawhat crew. Any other crew always had large numbers and "fodder" so to speak, even Roger's.

[fierce thorn]

Ok I will jump in here with one though, we currently have a giant in the story with the giant giant fruit, if he can't shrink and just keeps getting bigger and eventually died. What would his skull be like? Just to play devils advocat but you're assuming onigshima is from a different race, but it could be an enlarged version of one of the races that existed back then.

[lunar acorn]

My assumption wasn't that onigashima skull belonged to a person from a different race, but that it could've belonged to Oars's ancestor, an Oars that existed 900 years ago. The Oars we know used to live and be a menace 400 years ago. It's all speculation tho who this skull belonged to but I feel like Oda's cooking and has been sparkling small bits and pieces of the "grand overarching story" in each arc ever since strawhats entered the grandline.

[fierce thorn]

I see what you mean in which case my devils advocacy is towards your side since it would mean history is repeating itself in that aspect then of a giant getting a enlargement fruit. But I could see an ancestor of Oars being on the BB of that times side.

[bitter rain]

corozon also had a smile on his face and he was born a cd

[keen trellis]

couldve been a secret d member

[graceful helm]

Pedro, bellamere and oden also died with smiles on their faces

[bitter rain]

pretty sure that is corozan was adopted then it would have been mentioned

[keen trellis]

well i still think the numerous other reasons keeps my theory in tact

[bitter rain]

k

[keen trellis]

no i must be wrong right.. because??

[keen trellis]

i hate people that are so easily opposed about a take with no real good reason 😭

[bitter rain]

🏳️

[keen trellis]

then don’t respond like that😭 expecting me to leave as that not like i was being a dick to u

[bitter rain]

ok. Ill do better next time then

[keen trellis]

just wanted an actual convo abt this topic

[graceful helm]

a google search says that Teach was born on Shade island
he also joined the whitebeard pirates when he was 12 so it seems unlikely that he would have lived on drum island at the same time as Dr. hirluk
The wiki also says the hirluk was born on drum island
the wiki also says that hiruluk was diagnosed with his fatal disease at a young age and it laid dormant until he became old

[graceful helm]

After digging a little deeper it looks like Dr. Hirluk returned to drum island 22 years ago which was after blackbeard had already joined whitebeards crew so he couldnt have met hiruluk on drum island.

[keen trellis]

im looking at the timeline thank you for pointing that out because now looking at it, this proves my case even more

literally the following year after the god valley incident, hiriluk goes back to drum island

[graceful helm]

What do you mean? god valley happened 38 years ago hiriluk returned to drum island 22 years ago

[keen trellis]

unless the wiki is lying, idk what to tell ya

this is from the wiki one piece timeline

[graceful helm]

ah i misread something, i think youre right about the 37 years ago, if that true that is a pretty big coincidence,
that would mean that teach would have had to move to drum island somewhere beteween the time he was 1 and 12. its possible

while looking around i found this
https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/17h13le/crackpot_dr_hiriluk_theory/
seems like someone had a similar theory to yours a year ago

[keen trellis]

-sure he was born there, but we don’t know if he was raise there, he could’ve traveled to different places before eventually joining whitebeard
-i also never denied rocks wasn’t born on drum island, we don’t know where he was born
-and the youth thing might be stretch to say it could’ve been a cover up on what actually happened because he prob told this to chopper i assume

[keen trellis]

i knew it has been a theory, but i wasn’t too sure if anyone actually had an in depth reasoning about it other than them looking similar, but i appreciate the convo tho

[graceful helm]

Fs its an interesting theory, might just be coincidence, and a lot of things need to be explained for it to work, but i cant see anything that just completely disproves it.

tbh idk how i feel about hiruluk being rocks but it would definitely be surprising.

[keen trellis]

i think it would make for a peak redemption arc if true

[keen trellis]

if he isn’t, at best he had to been apart of the rocks pirates because the coincidence of him going back to drum island a year later is very specific

and tbf i doubt we will get the real answers for a few years💀

[graceful helm]

Yeah i could see Hiruluk being an expert thief on Rock's crew. Maybe never being particularly strong but being really good at stealing things that Rocks wants.

[chrome badger]

I mean there is one guy whose face is obscured by Zeus but Im 90% sure thats Professor Clover

[keen trellis]

the rocks pirates rlly do be the mvp of pirate crews

[lucid fjord]

sanji getting conquerors this year

[late elm]

Ima be honest I think hiruluk was too nice to be on rocks crew

Whitebeard was the nicest person we’ve seen on the rocks crew and even then he was only nice to his family after he left rocks and he was a menace to everyone else.

I could more see kureha on the crew lol she’s a mean ole bitch

[tiny fulcrum]

@alpine marshbro what kind of discussion is this

[trim flint]

Hiriluk being in rocks crew would be peak goda imo

[keen trellis]

hiriluk literally has said he wasn’t a good person back in his heyday

[lunar acorn]

we know of all members of rocks and Hiruluk isn't there
rocks also procured only true monsters power-wise, while Hiruluk is a normal human
dr Kureha is too old to have been in rocks
Hiruluk is one of my fav characters cause of what he represents - a person who had a spiritual experience and a "change of heart", who cured his own mentality and took the good path moving forward, and wanted other people to experience the same, to cure the mental and inspire the people - so let's not reduce this grand soul of a character into some rocks crew monster

[hallow bear]

we dont know that for sure, maybe rocks took aboard regular doctors to keep the beasts alive and kicking, dont get me wrong i dont think he was a rocks pirate but maybe he spent time aboard the crew of someone else although it would probably be someone unknown seen as it wouldnt make sense for him to have been on the crews of any of the established big named crews, perhaps clovers crew? i havent done research but i can see that workinh

[keen trellis]

true, that’s why i still think he’s rocks himself

the fact hilruk is kind of a shitty doctor is because he wasn’t originally a doctor until he returned to drum island, so definitely don’t expect of him to be a doctor on Rocks’ crew

and yea really thinking about it i just don’t see him being a random crew member of the most powerful pirate crew, like idk who else he would’ve been other than Rocks himself

[keen trellis]

isnt it interesting we also don’t know hiriluk’s full name

[timid drift]

Yo speaking of Hiriluk, where do you think were those cherry blossoms from? I swear it cannot be Wano because it has been kind of confirmed.

[late elm]

what do you mean?

[chrome badger]

Wano being an isolationist nation who didnt have many foreigners visit till Whitebeaerd kind of messes with the Hiriluk timeline

[late elm]

If the shimosutkis escaped wano 50 years ago whos to say others haven’t made the same pilgrimage before then?

[chrome badger]

I dont know who suggested this first, but the idea that Shanks Crew's wedding from the 1.5 billion berry luffy poster is in the same biome as Whiskey Peak but on the opposite side of the Redline relative to reverse mountain. Maybe there is a place similar to wano in the Grandline or South/West Blue

[chrome badger]

I mean its seems like that was a willing out migration and several colonies were established. That being said the Hiriluk time line to me appears to have been born 70 years ago but had gone back to the Sakura Kingdom 30 years ago by the name of his 30 year experiment. Given that Oden was actively trying to go out the sea between 38 years ago and 28 years ago (I think that was when Whitebeard arrived) Its unlikely Hiriluk could have been in Wano.

Another possible line could be the other Wano colonies brough it with them out of Wano but beyone Architecture in the Shimotuki dojo I'm not sure there is evidence for Wano agriculture in the greater one piece world. Hiriluk did say that he went to a kingdom in the West which could either be the South Blue or North West along the Gradline so it could also just be a place around Wano with similar culture or even the Shapeshifing lady that helped Orochi come to power.

[late elm]

I think it’s a misunderstanding for a lot of people with drum island that think doctor hiriluk literally made sakuras bloom in drum

It was basically a firework that caused powder to color the snow. He wasn’t literally trying to make sakuras bloom in this snowy tundra he was trying to cure the hearts of the people in drum by giving hope and beauty back to them after wapol took it all away from them.

I don’t think everything from early in the series needs to be over analyzed that much. The drum island arc was one of the greatest and most emotional arcs in one piece and teaches a lot to the readers and viewers about what generational will actually means. Sooner or later in the story we may find out a lot of characters had .D in their names without knowing it similar to clover but I don’t think we have to diminish these characters in the early series by trying to basically upgrade them to the modern setting by saying they are rocks or were part of rock’s crew or stuff like that that people have been posting theories about a lot in recent times (I think because a lot of one piece tubers are just throwing stuff at the wall hoping it sticks with any random theories that try really hard to make sense but don’t really in the end). These characters are part of a lot of the main characters origins and gives them the emotional backing that makes people love the straw hats. If everyone in the straw hats was like luffy and had very renowned family members and special bloodlines or chosen one tropes or whatever it would take away from all of their very touching backgrounds that made us love them in the first place.

The drum island arc even teaches us about that too. Blood relations mean nothing in one piece. Chopper is an entirely different species from hiriluk but he still called him his son.

[left kiln]

Imu is the reason why Devil Fruit users are weak to sea stone + the ocean.

I believe that Imu's fruit is the Rain God fruit mentioned in Skypiea and she's awakened her devil fruit, being able to control all forms of water. The attack on Lulusia came from the clouds as clouds are condensed water formed by oxygen, water and carbon dioxide. Rain is the condensation wearing off. Imu hated her abilities so to prevent people from suffering the same fate as her, she made it so any substance of water makes devil fruit users weak

bonus theory: Shanks' Gryphon isn't made of metal but infact Sea Stone, that's why Akainu/Sakazuki stepped down the moment Shanks blocked one of his attacks and surrendered. It's also why Kidd lost the fight in 1 shot, Shanks' Haki Projectiles pick up the properties of his blade and effects DF users insanely

EXTRA BONUS THEORY:

Saturn Created Bonney and Ginny's Disease, Sapphire Scale

The history of abuse from the World Government/Celestial Dragons goes far back and their history with slaves and buccaneers is even worse. I like to believe that the Sapphire Scale was an outcome of Saturn's devil fruit being used as revenge against Kuma for his rebellion and joining the revolutionaries, a group dedicated towards taking down the world government.

Backups:
Japanese Beliefs state that the Ushi-Oni (Saturn's fruit) generates an illness is response to being attacked
Hindu belief is that a fruit that is typically associated with the planet Saturn is Sapphire

thats all from me now folks, silas out

[lofty nymph]

There is a certain theory that may lead to Shank's death. Shanks entrusted his strawhat to luffy and told him to return it later after he became a great pirate. But At the end of wano when everyone in the shanks crew were ready to meet Luffy since he has become a great pirate now. But shanks denied. We know whenever shanks and Luffy will meet, Luffy will return the hat to shanks. But during Fishman arc we saw a future where Luffy destroyed fishman island, that future hasn't been completed yet so maybe Luffy will destroy fishman island and meet Imu sama and at last when everything is over he will see shanks dead. And Luffy will return the strawhat to Shank's grave. Just like shanks did with whitebeard and Ace.

[full nymph]

Really interesting theory but I don’t think the strawhat would just be put to an end but more so of it going forward with future generations. Shanks wasn’t really the original owner of it after all

[obtuse glacier]

Hear me out what if there's a fruit that let you travel back in time since there's a fruit that help you go to the future. What if that like shanks grandson or something

[hearty charm]

!nevercook

[lone hedge]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/294551467820580864/1133027499652165743/nevercookk.png?ex=66017b96&is=65ef0696&hm=0956b22048302348dc9364bd3e06f4a7dfac56ed0525d7ba715dd12d12ce7059&

[hearty charm]

time travel to the past is a hot mess

[hallow bear]

the laugh tale arc is gonna feature a 4 way clash between the crews of all 4 yonko. i personally believe we have another 2 or 3 arcs until we finally make it to laugh tale and because oda needs to keep giving luffy stronger and stronger threats the villain of laugh tale has to be something epic. this could give the strawhats some fantastic moments of bonding, feats or revenge

think about it, every straw hat locked in combat with different members of all 4 teaming up or having a free for all match,

we can see zoro vs mihawk that may get interrupted by shiryu or by beckman

robin getting to rough up crocodile

usopp and yasopp teaming up to take out van auger and whoever cross guild has thats a gun expert

i like to think black beard would have arlong for some reason which gives nami a good excuse to kick his ass which she was formerly too weak to do

sanji could take the title of fastest from lucky roux which could lead to a pretty funny aftermath of them taking out a bunch of BB and CG grunts and maybe even a named member or 2. sanji can also have his reunion with gin that he was said to have during baratie

franky can turn the sunny into a giant mech that he could use to have a giant mecha fight with sanjuan wolf that would mostly be sick background decoration

as for brook, chopper, jinbe... yea idk

and while all this is going on around them of course the 3 main captains fight in a glorious 3 way match all while buggy sneaks off with the one piece

[dusky acorn]

Mosa's Identity & Traumatic Experience Theory
#manga-theories message

Eustass Kid's Connection to Loki Theory
#manga-theories message

Shamrock = Burn Scar Man Theory
#manga-theories message

Gunko = Victoria Theory
#manga-theories message

Ex-Warlord Hanafuda's Murderer Theory
#manga-theories message

Captain John's Treasure Theory
#manga-theories message

---

Killer Three-Eyed Tribe Member Theory

I believe that Killer, the Fighter of the Kid Pirates, is a member of the three-eyed race.

Forehead Cover

Whenever Killer is seen, both as a child and as Kamazo, he always prefers to cover his forehead.

It would make sense for him to cover this theorised third eye, as he wouldn't want to stand out as a unique race for a myriad of reasons.
(Not wanting to be captured and sold off to slavery as a child, not wanting to be made fun of similar to how he feels about his weird laughter, etc.)

Recognizing Killer, Reader's Perspective

When Oda created Kamazo, he wanted to do it in a way that hid from the reader the fact that it was actually Killer.
So, covering the chin to hide the telltale sign of his beard is very reasonable. But why the forehead?

We would have had absolutely no way of recognising Killer even if we had seen his entire head.
It just doesn't make sense, unless Oda &/or Killer wanted to hide some sort of secret about him up there.

Udon's Tears

I know some may think this theory is debunked because of the scene where Killer cries in Udon, since they may not remember visible tears from Killer's forehead.

However, it is exactly the contrary. The crying scene in Udon nearly confirms this theory, from my perspective.

As Killer is shown crying in this moment, there clearly appears to be droop marks stained underneath his bandage, just as his other tears are drawn like. Which is exactly where a third eye would cry from..

That is precisely what I believe occurred in this panel, especially with the oddly dented in lines of the bandages around that area as well.

(Panel's Spotlight

And remember, this was drawn on a very huge panel; the largest headshot in the entire chapter even. So the artist shouldn't be drawing random strokes like these without reason!)

Oda's Shoes

Let's put ourselves in Oda's shoes for a moment.

If he wanted to draw an altered appearance of unmasked Killer, yet mask the fact that he has a third eye, despite knowing he's going to draw a scene of him crying which would normally give it away, how would he hide the tears from the third eye?

That's exactly where the bandage across the middle of his face/nose comes in. That's why he's designed with this extra bandage detail, to keep the secret better hidden, in the tearful scene he knew he was going to draw about him.

"X" marks the spot

Interestingly, on two seperate occaisons with two different items, Killer has been drawn with a cross on his forehead. The first time was with his bandages as Kamazo, and the next time was versus Hawkins, when he damaged his mask.

Not huge evidence for this theory, but I can assure you people will definitely be looking back in hindsight at these panels in this exact way if/when his third eye is revealed.

Kid and Killer's Confidence

Such a thing would also act as a solid answer to the coveted question of how exactly Kid and his crew can decipher poneglyphs, and keep up in the actual race for One Piece.

If this third eye is to be revealed, it'd be no wonder why Kid and Killer, (even the smarter one of the two) are always so confident about their dream and journey.
It's because they know they're going at this race with all the necessary tools they need.

Killer's Flower: Snowdrop

Killer's representative flower is a snowdrop. This is a flower that always has 3 petals. Or at least, snowdrops may seem like they only have 3 petals, but what's on the inner portion are also considered petals, 3 more petals to be exact.

This could reflect the character as well. Just as his mask has three blue lines streaked across where his eyes would supposedly be, including a stripe right down the middle, once the mask is taken off, there will be 3 of something right where those lines are on the inside as well-- a third eye.

https://imgur.com/a/2An4CnV

(This is a theory I remade from the original one a few years back within the message reply.)

[ashen chasm]

Am I allowed to post a theory video I made here, or would that only be for self promo?

[keen trellis]

Possible Match Ups by the end of the series
Luffy: Bhanks, Coby, Buggy, Blackbeard
Zoro: Shiryu, Mihawk
Nami: Vasco
Usopp: Auger
Sanji: Doffy, Kuzan
Chopper: Doc Q
Robin: Devon, Crocodile
Franky: Pizarro
Brook: Lafitte
Jinbe: Burgess
Loki: Wolf

[hallow bear]

why put vasco shot against nami of all people?

[keen trellis]

both drinkers

[hallow bear]

so does most of the crew

[keen trellis]

eh the only ones really known for drinking are zoro and nami

[hallow bear]

sure but just doenst seem like a good reason to put them against each other to me, seems kinda half assed to me

[keen trellis]

tbf tho im not too serious abt it and i honestly didn’t know who would go against vasco out of the strawhats

the ones that are guaranteed are luffy vs bb, zoro vs shiryu, usopp vs auger, chopper vs doc q

[late elm]

Match ups aren’t theories

[umbral summit]

The theory is if they will match and why? I don't think they will fight.

[late elm]

!theories

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[keen trellis]

yea none of that mentions match ups

[sleek umbra]

My theory is that Imu is actually Nefertari D. Lily

[graceful helm]

i like this list the only thing i would switch is vasco and devon. I think nami is more likely to fight devon because she mostly only 1v1s women, but robin has 1v1ed men and women.

[topaz topaz]

I don’t have a link to it but did anyone read the theory that Binks Sake is the One Piece? and if so what did you think?

[ashen chasm]

I agree with it because it fits into another theory I made, but I also believe the One Piece is technically like 5 different things. Bink's Sake will just be used during a vow between the Strawhats to bring the Dawn of the World.

[ashen chasm]

This is my theory as well, but I think you're missing a part of it. We know Law's devil fruit was likely used to make Imu immortal, and what else can Law's devil fruit do? Switch people's bodies. Imu is someone who was born a man, then used Law's devil fruit to steal Lily's body and make themselves immortal.

[ashen chasm]

Video on this theory here: https://youtu.be/jm3-G4rH4Zc?si=2O1wFdU5fTv5hk0s

So my theory is that Luffy will have 31 crewmates. Now you may scoff at that, but there is a LOT to back this up, this is something Oda has been setting up since chapter 1.

Oda has clarified that with the "10 crewmates" line from chapter 1, Luffy wanted those 10 crewmates before entering the Grand Line. I believe Oda accomplished exactly that, in the East Blue, Luffy met 10 characters that, at the end of the series, will learn the truth of the Void Century at Laughtale with Luffy, and make a vow over sake to take down the World Government and bring the Dawn of the World.

This pattern continued with Paradise and the New World, and with Buggy as a wildcard (like a joker in a deck of cards) this leaves us with 31 crewmates total.

The majority of crewmates will join all at once, at Laughtale. During a war between the Yonko to find Laughtale, these crewmates will find their way onto the Sunny one way or another, and will coincidentally be on the Sunny right before Luffy reaches Laughtale.

Now there is a lot more backing this up than what I say here, but I would like to bring up some points that may convince you to give this a chance.

• Oda has made it explicitly clear that Luffy will surpass Roger, yet Roger had 26 crewmates with him at Laughtale (28 with Buggy and Shanks). I do not think Oda is going to have Luffy surpass Roger in every way except crew size, especially when he has made crewmate expectations such an important part of this series. If Oda wanted Luffy to have 10 or 12 crewmates, he would have made Roger's crew smaller, especially since there is no way more than 10 Roger crewmates will be important to the story.

• Law is determined to figure out what the Will of D. is, and doing that involves him reaching Laughtale. We know Luffy is going to be the King of the Pirates, so why did Oda give Law this character motivation if he will ultimately fail? Law will be at Laughtale and learn the Will of D., but as a subordinate to Luffy. This also goes for Buggy who is determined to find the One Piece.

• Most people believe Vivi will end up joining the crew because of her connection to the Strawhats, however Momo rode with the Strawhats just as long if not longer, and Luffy straight up called Momo "his crew". If Vivi is an honorary Strawhat and a shoe in to join the crew, so is Momo.

• Oda left hints for Momo, Tama, Yamato and Carrot joining the crew at the end of Wano, yet none of them joined by the end. Why tease these characters then do nothing with them? Especially since all 4 of them joining would give us 13 crewmate, more than the 10 or 12 crewmates most of the fanbase believes. This isn't even including Vivi.

• Why the fuck would you ever trust Oda? He constantly messes with his fanbase, and sets up expectations specifically to break them. For example, setting up the expectation for Vivi to join in Alabasta, just to give us Robin. If Oda set up the expectation for 10 or 12 crewmates, he did it specifically to blow away our expectations by the end.

Like I said, I have a lot more to back this up, there is a reason the video is over 100 minutes long. I explain exactly why this is happening, and how it will happen, from where we are now in the story to the end, and I show why I believe these are the upcoming arcs using evidence and patterns from the manga. Please do not just think I'm crazy for daring to go against 10 or 12 crewmates, and give this a shot.

[pale furnace]

yeah

[polar bison]

can’t u just say the full 31 here and ur reasonings for them? i’m interested but not two hour long video interested

[ashen chasm]

It's 2 hours long because I also go over the rest of the series arc by arc and it has some other big theories thrown in. The reason these 31 were chosen are based on patterns I believe Oda made in both introducing them & their characteristics. I honestly dont't go over that and each individual crewmate, I do in other videos & videos in the future. What this video does is explain why and how Oda has set this up, and why this makes sense narratively. I promise you I make it exciting. This video will throw twists and turns at you while being visually engaging.

[pale furnace]

he aint returning no hat because Shanks want to find the One Piece now

[atomic thorn]

Interesting but idk why, I don't think this would happen 😅

[dry cradle]

Many others believe so lol.

[dry cradle]

Why do you think it’s a “her”? But amazing idea. I forgot there was such a fruit that was mentioned. Hopefully it was just them talking about it existing..and not someone having it there lol. Would also explain the water control and how shit b drowning. I do think imu had one of the weapons tho which causes destruction perhaps or it could be their DF.

[left kiln]

Imu's voice actor was Oda's wife im pretty sure

[chrome badger]

Its uncredited, Somebody on this discord did a deep analysis using a program and found both Blackbeard and Vivi's voice actor/actress were merged to do the voice

[ashen chasm]

That actually works incredible well for my take on the "Imu is Lily" theory (Imu was a man who stole Lily's body with Law's fruit, then made himself immortal).

[chrome badger]

I doubt Imu was ever a man because the name Imu Nerona seems like a reference to Nero Emperor of Rome but Nerona is the female versions and given the Japanese Family-First name dynamic Id assume even if she is in Lili’s body Imu Nerona was always female.

[ashen chasm]

In Japanese Ivankov uses an honorific for Imu that has only ever been used for male Celestial Dragons. His speech patterns in Japanese also indicate he is male.

[sleek umbra]

Guys my theory is that shanks is gonna betray luffy

And luffy and shanks will have to fight

[chrome badger]

Im not sure anyone has suggested this but was the King whose ship Law Hijacked Elizabello II of the Prodence Kingdom during the Rocky Port Incident

It would explain why the King Punch is associated with the four emperors as he could have used it against Blackbeard, or potentially Ochoku could have been considered to have been the closest to an Emperor in the New World as the leader of Hachinosu.

[pure raven]

Im currently at work so cant write it down yet, 2 things

But i believe its not actually shanks that fought loki, or IF its shanks, then shanks is a godknight and doesnt have a twin

Main reason is that loki got captured with these bandages, which is the devil fruit/power that gunko has, as seen in this and the last chapter

One thing hinting at shanks actually being the godknight and not actually having a twin, is that the people of elbaph said that they just saw shanks but he suddenly dissapeared

And we know that the godknight and gunko just teleported

So either shanks is the godknight, or the giants just dont notice it and think its shanks

And of course the theory that Im-sama shares his powers with not only the five elders but ALSO the godknights

As Gunko uses the same attack that killed cobra(this arrow looking bandage/tail)

[chrome badger]

I mean it seems like Shanks defeated Loki then became an emperor of the Sea so if it was Franks who defeated Loki I doubt Shanks gets the emperor title.

This does make me wonder if Loki was an Emperor before Shanks given his Bounty is slightly lower than what BlackBeards was pre Wano.

[echo veldt]

so, this is a something that was practically never talked about: the one piece world is in its 16th centyury calender wise. How do we know this? from noland flashback, which was at its start stated to take place in the year 1122... meaning: something happen thoase 1500 years ago - something so big, that people started counting years from it.
and currently i have 3 ideas, for what it could possibly be

1. creation/emergence of devil fruits
2. creation of the red line
3. birth/death of the first ever nika, or nika fruit user

[dusky acorn]

Thanks to the latest chapter, we now know Loki seems to have an extensive knowledge on Shanks. Even to the point of knowing his "current whereabouts". Which seems almost too good to be true, right?

So how would Loki know exactly which island Shanks is at, at any given time?
Even if Shanks told him where he'd plan on going when they met each other 3+ days ago, how would Loki have any way of knowing if Shanks is on Gartel Island right now?
Or still sailing there?
Or already moving on to his next destination? For example.

I believe this is due to Loki's long-time friend, Mosa / Shaggy. They may be the reason for this information. I think that my theory of Mosa being a subordinate or fleet member of Shanks is gaining more & more.credence to be true.

[copper frost]

i see the first 2 options to be of a great possibility than of the third one

[wicked swallow]

He didn't "suddenly disappear"- the translation currently stands at "he was just here earlier... i'm not sure where he went off to though"

last we saw, Shanks was heading out to sea and fought Kidd along the way

I think it's more than likely that the line in this chapter simply refers to Shanks leaving when he fought Kidd but not knowing what Shanks' destination was

[violet path]

It’s weird that Loki doesn’t react to Franks in a surprised way. Like he isn’t shocked that this man who looks like Shanks but isn’t Shanks is confronting him, like he is already familiar with Franks. Just throwing that out there.

[pure raven]

The “certain pirate” that hooded shanks wanted to discuss with the Gorosei is Loki

[hearty charm]

loki is a pirate?

[dark light]

The Holy Knights aren't just there to recruit Loki, they're here to get Luffy arrested for Loki's release and publically cause strife in Luffy's fleet. With Bartolomeo's annihilation, and the Giants no longer trusting Luffy, the fleet may be tricked into also not trusting him to protect them.

Edit: rephrase.

[pure raven]

Why would they be there to frame Luffy for something he intends to do

Ah

[earnest glen]

Theory: Loki's motives
It seems pretty clear cut that Loki admire Sun God Nika for being the destroyer of the world and aspire to be him
All his childhood antics were ways of him emulating his hero, just because he thought violence is cool
Loki hated his father for wanting to end Elbaf's warrior spirit, so much so that none of the new kids aspire to be Nika anymore
While Harald tolerated Loki, he's a cautionary example of how Giants can't move forward while still having their violent nature
Loki himself is caring in nature, his violent speech is just a front to make people fear him

Whether Loki "killed" Harald or not, it seems he killed his father because he was prevented to go out to the sea
This is proven by him going out to sea after Harald's death, and most likely cause destruction in the name of Sun God before Shanks found him
Shanks, who likely thought it's a waste for Sun God admirer to act rashly, brought him back to Elbaf until it's time for the real Sun God to appear

At the end of Elbaf, Loki would see that Sun God Nika was actually someone who brings joy to the world

[small estuary]

He is seeing with his Haki. Ig Franks' aura is different from shanks, that's why he doesn't react.

[violet path]

Ah. Yeah you’re right. Plus his eyes are covered so he wouldn’t be able to tell it was a shanks look-a-like based on facial features

[hearty charm]

Wait a minute. What if the second time the world was destroyed was the Void Century, and for the first time the Ancient Kingdom took over and became very similar to what the World Government is today. Joyboy originally fought against the World Government of his time (the Ancient Kingdom) and alongside the 20 kingdoms of todays World Government, but the 20 kingdoms started going down the exact same path as the Ancient Kingdom. This caused Nefertari Lili to leave the 20 kingdoms over disagreeing with what they are becoming, and only now did Joyboy start fighting the 19 remaining kingdoms, including Imu, and eventually losing. Today's World Government, including Imu, would have been the protagonists of their time originally fighting against oppression, but later became that very same oppression themselves.

We only assume the Ancient Kingdom were the good guys because the cureent World Government is pretty bad.

[hearty charm]

This could also explain why Vegapunk was saying to not be quick to judge the sides of the Void Century.

[magic kayak]

Imagine Lord Jarul was the real culprit and because he was wrongly accused of killing his dad, for that reason he turns to real darkness and wants to destroy the world.

[pure raven]

This is what I’ve been thinking. Luffy isn’t a second joyboy, he’s a third Nika. It lines up with the new information about the world having gone through two destructive eras

[rain lake]

is there a theory for what arc will be after elbaf?

[brazen rapids]

Whatever the final war is probably

[fresh isle]

We already saw the One Piece Silhoutte in chapter 1122, and it's a giant afro mask with a weird face. https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/1i3xx5d/we_already_saw_the_one_piece_silhoutte_in_chapter/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

[ashen chasm]

I think it will be Fullalead. Egghead was a Sabaody mirror, I think Elbaf will have Amazon Lily connections. At the end of Elbaf I think Luffy will learn about Garp like he did Ace at the end of Amazon Lily. Impel Down is when Blackbeard and Luffy first threw hands, so Luffy will go to Fullalead to try to save Garp and fight Blackbeard.

I think Blackbeard will end up winning that fight, and it will lead to a mirror of Marineford, and this is when Blackbeard will get his 3rd Devil Fruit.

[opaque breach]

The one piece is a giant speaker that is powered by nika's heartbeat (like emeth) and will spead the drums of liberation across the entire world.
Together with brook, they are going to make the entire world dance in a huge party, which is luffy's dream.
Roger knew he was early to the party because they possibly found much more lore about nika and knew that the drums of liberation can only trigger after X amount of time, when all the stars align

So they created their own little party at laugh tale

[olive sandal]

@mincraftisfun what are you upto, the reddit is removed

[rancid zodiac]

Who else has heard abt the theory that alabasta is a mirror of what happened 800 years ago

[cinder oriole]

Anyone remember the theory that Kid was a secret 7th satellite for Vegapunk?

[final bloom]

no but thats interesting, is there a yt vid or smth?

[rancid zodiac]

I can’t remember where I saw it for the life of me😭

It was basically talking about how vivi when she was traveling with the straw hats and when they put that x mark on their arm is what happened with lili and is how she got the D initial

And at the end of alabasta ( the scene where they couldn’t talk because the marines were approaching and how the held up the x) is probably similar with what happened with lili and joy boys crew but in the end she had to join the 20 kingdoms like how vivi stayed in alabasta and couldn’t go against the marines for her nation

This is what I remember from it but I’m missing alot more
I think more than one person has posted about this theory or made a video on it

[scarlet cedar]

Theory: The Twins and the Mystery of the "D" in One Piece

One Piece's main part of the story could be about the story of two twin brothers with extraordinary power, possibly related to Nika or a similar force. Both represented opposite concepts, something like yin and yang: one symbolized light, peace, and freedom, while the other represented darkness, war, and domination. Despite being brothers, their worldviews led them down completely different paths.

The brother of peace believed that conflicts were resolved through harmony and the release of the chains that bound people. On the other hand, the brother of war thought that order could only be achieved through strength and control. This difference in ideals ended up separating them, and what began as a simple argument escalated into a fight that changed the fate of the world.

The Origin of the "D"

In their final confrontation, the twins broke their bond forever. This rupture was also symbolized in the legacy they left behind: the “D.” Each took one half of that symbol as their last name, a reminder that the balance they themselves destroyed could one day be restored. The “D” represents that division, but also the possibility of reconciliation.

Nika and Duality

This idea might explain why Nika, the “Sun God,” is said to be able to both save the world and destroy it. Perhaps Nika’s story is not about a single figure, but about these two opposing forces interacting.

-The “D”s destined for liberation: Those who inherit the ideals of the brother of peace. They are those who seek to liberate oppressed peoples, restore joy, and destroy unjust systems.

-The “D”s destined for domination: Those who follow the philosophy of the brother of war. Their goal is not to liberate, but to establish an order based on force and absolute control.

This contrast also explains why some see the bearers of the "D" as natural enemies of the gods: they represent a threat to the status quo, whether through revolution or conquest.

[cinder oriole]

Don’t remember where I originally saw it but I remember the evidence. When the robot animals surrounded the Sunny near Egghead each of them kinda resembled the satellites and the extra one looked like Kid. Also how some attacks have punk in the name like damned punk. Also in one of his robot arms has a number 7 on it for satellite 7

[azure kraken]

The real life Blackbeard was utterly terrifying, yet he was strangely fair to his crew. We see these traits in both Whitebeard, with his just ruling over his territory and crew, and Blackbeard, in his terror tactics and calculated attacks.
The real life Blackbeard has quite a bit of influence on the former Whitebeard pirates. The real life Blackbeard was known to the public as Edward Teach, but to those he knew personally, he would introduce himself as Edward Thatch.
Now, we know that Whitebeard’s real name was Edward Newgate, and our Blackbeard is named Marshall D. Teach. However, Blackbeard also killed a man known as Thatch in order to gain power.
Those three people have parts of his name, and represent parts of the real Blackbeard, and may give us some insight into the potential three souls theory.
Edward: the fair and just part of Blackbeard. Has a set of beliefs that he holds to strongly (e.g, “The dreams of men with ambition will never die!) Blackbeard.
Thatch: The “personal” side to Blackbeard. Thatch loved his crew and family, and we see this in our Blackbeard seeming to genuinely care for his crew. Thatch loved his family, but was killed for the sake of power by
Teach: the “Public” version of Blackbeard, where he gets his cunning and ruthlessness. This is the version of Blackbeard who killed Whitebeard and Thatch.

It’s a little convoluted, and probably nothing new, but I was just thinking abt this extension to the 3 souls theory.

[hushed linden]

you guys think the sun symbol on the nika shield is symbolism for nika and his nika form army

[remote prism]

didnt oda say the next island is lodestar

[iron current]

no

[chrome badger]

I agree its probably Lodestar but Oda has not said anything

[chrome badger]

I dont think anyone has thrown this out yet but the Strawhats went North of Wano (Egghead) then went to the island North East of Wano (Elbaf), so maybe they go East to Winner Island?

Correction it was Northeast to winner Island, East to Elbaf, and Northwest to Egghead.

[tranquil junco]

WARNING! SPOILERS FOR FUTURE CHAPTER REVEAL AHEAD!!!!!

Mark my words y'all
Loki is the man with the burn scar. If I'm wrong, you may permaban me from this server.

We know that Captain Kid was on his way to meet the man with the burn scar and where was he headed to? That's right. Elbaf. The latest chapter mentions that Loki was an arson, which also supports my theory that he is the man with the burn scar. I bet if his bandages are removed, we will see his face scarred by flames. Also to add a little bit of fun to my theory, love is a flame and who burned him? That's right. Lola when she rejected his hand in marriage.

[merry fractal]

I don't think you know what 'spoilers' means

[half lynx]

Kidd only knew about the man but not his whereabouts,same info Blackbeard has.

[dusky acorn]

I like how enthusiastic you are about a theory revolving around Loki, and Kid! But jeez, no need to be so steadfast to the degree of taking such a huge punishment..
I'm sure this community already knows we all wholeheartedly believes in our theories, since we've gathered here in the first place.

As for the theory itself, I do agree that the burn scar man is most likely on Elbaph, since that's a plot-point connected to Kid.

However, there are still multiple other figures it could potentially be, besides Loki.

For example, the shadowy human figure we've seen roaming around, that is believed to be either Shiki or Scopper.

Or another possibility, the Shanks holy knight. His whole body is covered in a dark robe thus far, so he may potentially be hiding some scars as well. In fact, I'm currently in the middle of writing a theory about the burnt man being the latter myself!

Not to mention, there are a couple things that hinder the theory of the man's identity to be Loki.

First, how would Loki be guarding this ponegliff, if the poor guy is chained up in sea prism stones down in the Underworld?

Secondly, how would Loki be able to be the man rumoured to be riding in that pitch-black ship Blackbeard mentioned, if he's been chained up here for the past 6 years?

And shouldn't the rumour of this person be a bit more accurate, if this was the case? It shouldn't be a "man with a burn scar", but "a giant with a burn scar", considering the fact that whoever has seen this figure has gotten close enough to at least notice a scar. If they did get that close, I'm fairly certain pinpointing the fact that this male is a giant would be a very obvious piece of evidence not to overlook.

[final bloom]

i think the man marked w flames is shanks twin cus he was that person who took the ponegliff from fishman island and since it was whitebeards territory, its probbaly ace who gave him that permament burn, its bit of "common" theory but im j trying to express my opinion here

[loud siren]

YO WSG EVERYONE I'M BACK AGAIN WITH ANOTHER BANGER OF A THEORY I HOPE ALL OF YOU GUYS ARE DOING WELL SHALL I START?

[graceful helm]

Isnt the man marked by flames supposed to be traveling on a black ship? we havent ever seen frank traveling by boat, it also wouldnt make much sense why there are rumors about him having the last ponecliff.
If the World government had the last poncliff wouldnt they keep it a marejois instead of having frank ride around the grandline with it? how would random pirates learn about him having it if its on MJ.

Also that would mean luffy and the other pirates would have to invade MJ, it seems unlikely that the strawhats will invade MJ before they find the one piece.

plus it be really weird if people knew about the man marked by flames but nobody ever mentioned that he looked just like shanks. That would mean someone would have to be close enough to frank's face to see that he had a burn scar but also not notice that he looked exactly like one of the most famous pirates in the world.

[pure raven]

Could the One Piece really be something as simple as one piece of the old continent before it sank?

[meager island]

@graceful helm I like ur profile

[tribal roost]

Loki gonna have a fenrir devil fruit Ussop gonna fight him.
He will be known as boy who cried wolf

[ashen chasm]

In Norse mythology, Surtur is a fire giant that is supposed to engulf the world in flames during Ragnarok. Loki's devil fruit has been passed down the royal line, and with how Nika is viewed in Elbaf, it's likely his devil fruit is tied to this sun god image. I think it makes more sense for Loki's fruit to have a Surtur theme, a fire giant to tie into the sun god thing, as well as his whole "I will destroy the world" thing. Not saying it will be a "Surtur Zoan" or anything, it will just make him look like a fire giant.

[neat imp]

He was just being sarcastic

[lament osprey]

I noticed that the sun god symbol has 9 circles on it. In 1136 we get a good view of the symbol carried by Nika. Luffy, with his Nika fruit, has 9 crew members, which makes me think Jinbe was the last crew member.

[dusky acorn]

PART 1 Holy Knight Shanks = Burn Scar Man THEORY

I believe that the man carrying burn scars is none other than the Shanks doppelganger, who is working as a holy knight. After all, despite most likely having an actual outfit underneath just like Gunko, to us as the reader, the majority of his body has been covered thus far.

Coloured In Black

If the burnt man really is Holy Knight "Shanks", then this fits well with the fact that he rides in an "all-black ship". This pitch-black ship matches his usual attire we've seen him wear on two separate occaisons, where he covers himself in a dark cloak.

Blackbeard Pirates' Theory

If the identity of the burned man is really a holy knight, then this would make the in-story prediction that's been given by Shiryu true as well, with his theory that the man's identity to be a World Government associated man. This way, no pirate can ever reach the One Piece without besting them.

[dusky acorn]

Kid's Setup, Inevitable Meeting

I have already logically deduced that Kid must currently be down in the underworld of Elbaph right now, which is where the holy knights are at.
(Read full theory here: #manga-theories message)

If Kid is also in the underworld right now, and this "Shanks" figure is the burnt man, then it would smoothly resolve his plot-line of figuring out who the scarred man is.

After all, Kid was originally the first and only character who brought him up first, as if he would have a connection with this burn-scar figure. It would be very fitting if the burnt man is someone this relevant for Kid (and Blackbeard), such as someone who looks just like Shanks.

PART 2, Kid's Relationship with Shanks & "Shanks"

For a moment, forget that Kid lost his arm. Forget how he got destroyed by Shanks in Elbaph. Think prior to all of that. The story tells us that Kid originally had always only been after Shanks.

We know this, as Kid stated he has "Never tried to go after Big Mom". This includes before he ever fought the Red Hair Pirates. Thus, he was never after any which one of the Yonko as a general goal.

Even when Kid had an opportunity to try picking a fight with Big Mom when going to Tottoland, all he decided on was stealing a ponegliff rubbing. So we know Kid was not just some simple-minded brute blindly trying to take down a Yonko at any chance he gets, just for the sake of it.

In summary, Kid's primary goal for his first emperor take-down was always on Shanks, both after and before he lost his arm. (Until Kaido set him off track, with the infinite grudges he ended up gaining against him.)

Catalyst

So what is the catalyst behind why Kid originally went after the Red-Hair operation, to begin with?
Just happenstance?
Because he thought Shanks was the "weakest Yonko"? That mindset doesn't fit Kid whatsoever.

Moreover, despite Benn Beckman being the one to remove Kid's arm, Kid hasn't mentioned him even once. His sights are still based on Shanks himself, even after his first loss.

Shanks' Knowledge of Kid (or lack thereof)

However, one thing IS confirmed. Shanks did not have prior knowledge about Kid, as when Hongo passed over Kid's data, Shanks gained newfound information of him being from the South Blue, for example.
So if Shanks has nothing to do with Kid, then how can this whole relationship seemingly be a one-sided grudge?

"Shanks" In Kid's Past

I believe the way in which this gap can be bridged is due to one vital revelation in the most latest chapters: The fact that a Holy Knight "Shanks" exists. I believe this Holy Knight did something negative to child Kid, which effected him severely. In addition, Kid like us readers, may not know there's two of him, thus mixing up which one was actually responsible for whatever this holy knight did to him.

This would have been an even easier misconception to make during Kid's past as a child, as the real Shanks was not missing an arm until he was 28, (Kid would have been 12, at the oldest). As well as the real Shanks not having his eye scar until he was an adult of some age as well.

I believe this is why Kid had been so set on targeting Shanks, from the beginning of his journey in the New World, until now. The grudge will be further fleshed out with potential backstory, once Kid meets the real man who wronged him in the past, right here on Elbaph.

Kid's "Burn Scar" Connections

This is steadily getting more on the speculative side, but perhaps something in Kid's past is actually what caused this Holy Knight "Shanks" figure to acquire a burn scar? Such as.. an incident symbolised by the flames in Kid's actual jolly roger?

What's more, Kid's own partner Killer, coincidentally carries a burn scar on his own body, as well. Perhaps the incident that caused Killer to have this burn scar is the very same one that caused the holy knight "Shanks" to have one, as well.

Furthermore, Kid even has a member on his crew capable of producing flames, to create a fiery setting for people to end up scarred by. (Heat was not always an ally of Kid by the way, he was formerly a gang leader of a rivalling gang.)

An Audience with Red-Hair

I will end this theory off on this note. The weirdest aspect between Eustass Kid and Red Hair is how time and again, the story has gone out of it's way to not let the two properly interact. The first time, Kid specifically wanted an "audience" with Red Hair, but Beckman didn't allow that audience with Shanks to happen.

The next time, although Kid does lay his eyes on Shanks, it's just that, a glimpse. It's almost as if the story is going out of it's way to prolong Kid being able to have any verbal interactions between him and Shanks.

If Kid was able to just say a few sentences to Shanks, a theory like this wouldn't even have to exist. It's just peculiar how much Kid's interaction towards Shanks is being beaten around the bush.

This is why I believe there is more than meets the eye between "Shanks" and Kid's relationship, and perhaps everything will be connected together akin to the revelations this theory proposes.

@modest skiff @cobalt igloo @slate burrow @gloomy canyon @weak arrow @night jewel and uhh.. idk who else cares on my thoughts for Kid's future

[chrome badger]

I think a better explanation is the Kidd hates the Roger Pirates. Kidd seems to also be particularlly annoyed at Buggy becoming an emperor and unlike Law never interacted with Rayleigh. I think it was Grandline Review who pointed out Kid is the age of kids in the South Blue would be if they werent killed in the marines hunt for Ace and Rouge. So Kidd may blame the Roger Pirates for some stuff that happened in the South Blue.

[cobalt igloo]

https://tenor.com/view/conan-o-brien-salute-clap-standing-ovation-gif-8433451

I think it’s interesting that you think he’s not just blindly targeting all the Yonko. I did take that moment to mean he wasn’t gunning for her at that particular time because he says this in 1029. But I don’t think that takes away from the theory too much since his pursuit of Shanks is actually fervent.

[night jewel]

Yeah I do think he had a general interest in the fame and notoriety one would gain from beating an Emperor, but his first target being Shanks and his continued insistence to go after him still stands out

[slate burrow]

I think you’re on the right track with a lot of this. Idk if I think Doppleshankser is burn scar, but him being involved in why kid is after shanks seems like a really good chance.

Especially if kids home was once the site of a genocide Olympics. Could be why/how he came to regard the CDs as scum, and supplementary material has described his piracy as a crusade against the world.

[gritty kite]

Describing Loki as “the fire marked man” is like describing brook as the guy with a cane. The description is leaving important details about him that are way more shocking than having a fire scar, like being a freaking giant.

[dusky acorn]

It's peculiar Kid says this in hindsight, because there's no such "finally" in this opportunity, it's not like it's Kid's first chance to topple an Emperor at all.

Kid already had the chance to take one down at a completely prior date: Kaido, back at the Kid Pirates hideout.

But perhaps Kid just meant this is finally the Emperor battle with the best odds at his favour, thus it would be disheartening to die at such a critical time.

[graceful helm]

Loki's special bounty is an alive only bounty where he needs to be captured and brought to the WG in order to collect. The WG has wanted to enlist Loki for a while and that's why they put the special bounty on him.

[haughty grove]

@dusky acorn Good cooking chef!

[rapid lily]

Great theory!

[opaque wyvern]

The National Treasure Doflamingo blackmailed the WG to give him favors is actually almost similar to Laplace Box from Gundam Unicorn. And it is a Stone Carved claiming that everyone is Equal and that the Celestial Dragon never have any authority to rule the world to begin with and do as they pleased and it is signed by the 20 Kingdoms and the Previous King of the World. And the stone is made by the same material as the poneglyphs so they can't destroy it nor would they toss it away and thus kept incredibly hidden from the world.

[deep aspen]

the mask lucci has in water 7 when they take the masks off and they get revealed to be cp9; that mask has eyes that look damn similar to imus eyes, theyre red and they have two rings (cant send embeds yet). the mask resembles a bull and everyone of the five elders have like those devil fruits which resemble an animal. maybe imus df resembles a bull-like animal. idk if this theory was already made, i just saw it rn cuz im watching the wano kuni sp

[pure raven]

Ya’ll, what would Shanks do when trouble starts in Elbaph?

[fallow epoch]

I feel like Loki will have a Ragnarok devil fruit which allows him to create disasters or something like that

[orchid briar]

shanks will do something when trouble start in elbaph ofc!

[old bison]

this is a stupid theory but the original nika has a shield in what looked like his left arm and a sword in his right arm. sanji could be the shield and zoro could be the sword

[chrome badger]

will he? I don't think Elbaf is under his protection and Blackbeard seems likely to do something soon enough that Shanks may be watching that. Though I also think BB is going to lose to Buggy in the near future (not a total defeat but a newsworthy one)

[polar bison]

when shim jumps on a theory u know it’s a good one. shiv burn scar is happening, kid’s potential connections with him make a ton of sense based on the seeming lack of reason for kid to target shanks so heavily

[polar bison]

i like all of this, i definitely think there’s got to be something solid behind kid’s obsession with shanks, and a case of mistaken identity could certainly fit the bill. another reason burn scar could be shivs is shivs’s presence on the endgame spread, which you’d think he’s gotta have some level of importance for

also explains why the gorosei mention his position and him “coming all this way” to meet them, when if he’s just a normal ass holy knight you’d think he’d be stationed in mariejois by default.

[dusky acorn]

Thanks a lot Khione, my respect for your opinions regarding the series is mutual.

That's right! If the Holy knight "Shanks" is hypothetically busy roaming around on that pitch-black boat, it makes sense that he would have to "come all that way", meaning he's not always just regularly sitting there in the holy land.

Beforehand, even I didn't like how Kid may have only been going after Shanks, because it feels like Blackbeard's duty to destroy him.
Of course, Kid can still get revenge somehow for what he did to him and the ship on Elbaph, but that's ultimately not where I see him spotlighting over Blackbeard.

Instead, Kid having a vendetta against someone as significant as a key holy knight fighter would make Kid's investment in the final war against the World Government quite grand, right?

In that case, I feel like the matchups later on in the series can look something like:

Kid vs Shanks skirmish (Optional)

Shanks vs his Holy Knight doppelganger

Blackbeard intervenes, kills Shanks

Luffy vs Blackbeard, Luffy wins

Kid vs Holy "Shanks", Kid wins.

I like this route for Kid way more. He would get more significant spotlight rather than solely getting crumbs of Shanks, despite that actually being Blackbeard's duty. I wouldn't mind if Kid never even fights Shanks

[polar bison]

figuring out who fights shanks does shanks die what about garling does he fight shanks is all getting more and more complicated by the chapter, but shiv showing up i think opens a lot more possibilities bc it’s almost like he can be a stand in for a shanks fight , at least in certain contexts. like if luffy or kid wanted to surpass shanks but shanks was already dead, shivs is right there. or it gives shanks a good reason to survive his fight with blackbeard and have importance beyond that in the story, or or and so on. i definitely think a lot of this is going to be clearer soon, elbaf is looking like the arc for revealing what’s going on with both shanks and kid

and w shivs appearing it definitely gives more opportunity for kid’s spotlight. we haven’t seen why kid is in the series yet idt, he hasn’t served his narrative purpose (considering he was oda’s first conceptualized supernova and oda’s always had plans for him), but it’s coming up, and with him mentioning burn scar before anyone, it’s an excellent shout that’s what he’s gonna be spotlighted about

[fierce thorn]

Shanks I feel is going to die to blackbeard.

One shanks is watching out for blackbeard

Two blackbeard already gave shanks a scar and that was without a devil fruit power

Three blackbeard is after Luffys fruit, he sent his man out for it before and failed because of a certain sabo.

Four Luffys getting a lot of attention from the WG atm.

So I think most likely outcome is blackbeard will make a play to capture Luffys DF. Then shanks will not just bet an arm for the new age but his life to protect Luffy.

Luffy never getting to have that full meeting with shanks as a great pirate.

Hell I don't even think Luffy will meet shiv but will later mistake him for shanks in a weird way.

As for who defeats shiv, my money is on useless kidd xD as a few mentioned the stand in fight against someone who looks like shanks

[snow herald]

I have a theory but I'm not sure if it's original.
What do you guys think?
The one piece planet was originally home to 1 race of humanoid species, could be ancient giants or something else. The planet itself was bountiful and rich in resources.
Other races from from other planetery bodies, namely the other moons all came to the planet but to live peacfully. They shared cultures, technologies, reproduced and everyone prospered. It was like the continental from John Wick or even Switzerland, a neutral place. Until the humans came along and decided to get greedy.

[mint umbra]

Shamrock , Shank. Thoughts, on them being Rocks kids that were orphaned at gods valley? One went with Figard and the other with Roger. I feel like Rocks would definitely name his kid Shamrock

[clever lintel]

I believe Imu posessed Harold to destroy the Owl Library and prepare Elbaph to be taken by the government.

Loki and Jarul found out the plan, leading posessed Harold to go berserk to kill the two. Loki ultimately was forced to kill his father to save him from Imu.

Jarul wanted to take the blame, but Loki wanted to protect Jarul's honor and preserve Harold's dream. Loki framed himself as his father's murderer and the one who killed all the soldiers in the castle.

[mint umbra]

There is no evidence that Imu can possess people. I feel like that would be a weak plot device. It's more impactful if WG brainwashing and his own personal greed turned Harold into a WG sympathiser. Selling out his own country to 'open the island' and let the WG in. You already know Harold is a villain by him not allowing his other son to live with him and shunned him as a bastard. Already showing us that Harold is a bad dude, Loki probably had to kill him but didn't want to taint his father's legacy with the truth.

[granite surge]

Since blackbeard has alot of knowledge on DFs (even killed thatch for it) what if bb already knew about the powers of the rubber fruit and wanted it first? Thus attacking shanks

[smoky basin]

Gunko is a pacifista-like or seraphim-like android based on Ginny's body in a paralell to Kuma.

• She doesnt get a title of 'saint' but she is treated as a HK
• She seems to be doing the most fighting/talking between her and Shamrocks, like some sort of attendant
• Weird robotic boots
• Big clothing hiding her robotic body
• Weird not human-like eyes, probably sensors idk
• Her mouth is covered, hiding more of her android features
• 'GUNKO' is translated to "army child", which fits with an mass produced android for the Saint HKs.
• She has the arrow arrow df, which is similar to Imu's (can also pierce like his attack, but...weaker?). Maybe copied from Imu himself, similar to how the Seraphims work
• Garling assumed the Science chair and he was the former head of the HKs, so it's fair to think he is good with science
  

[pure raven]

King Harold may have been manipulated by Mariejoa and Gorosei to make the giants non-warring to save his race.

But the ancient giants were exterminated like the Bucaneers and Lunarians because of their potential to destroy the world, like they did in the past.

Loki may have been framed.

[meager wraith]

I have a very small theory dunno if it's been said yet; I think Harald is Kaido's father. Similar beards, weird moustache, similar noses and eyes.

[sleek seal]

Just had a thought. We just learned that this Shanks lookalike is one of the Gods knights, and Shanks brother, Shamrock. Given that, he's also probably the one who spoke with the Five Elders about a certain pirate. We also now know that Loki was for a time a pirate himself, and that the only known survivors of the battle where Loki supposedly killed his father was Loki and that giant with a sword through his head.(Forgot his name) With all that said, what if Loki was the pirate Shamrock was going to talk to the five elders about. Perhaps up to that point the Five Elders and the World Government believed that Loki had eaten the Nika Nika fruit and Shamrock provided info that proved them wrong. Of course we can't forget that the Nika Nika fruit was being transported on a marine ship years before and Shanks stole it. But what if there's a Devil Fruit with similar initial powers whose very known existence fooled the Five Elders into believing that Loki had eaten the Nika Nika fruit, and a pirate with similar powers had eaten the fruit with similar powers just not the ones their most afraid of. That could explain why they've only just now went to recruit Loki. Except they did make it look like it was really easy to get to him in the first place. Maybe something about the Nika Nika fruit in contrast to the imposter fruit kept them from trying anything? Also, perhaps Shanks didn't just steal the Nika Nika fruit, but also the imposter fruit from the Marines, and on the way to returning them to Elbaf Luffy ate the Nika fruit, and wether knowingly or not he returned the other fruit presenting it as the Nika fruit.

[halcyon tusk]

Oda loves his symbols and emblems; one symbol introduced with the name “Shamrock” is the Trefoil. This three-lobed design carries a depth of real-world meaning that can be intriguingly linked to Shanks and his Figarland origins. In this theory, I’ll share how the trefoil, with its historical, cultural, and mythological roots, could connect to Shanks’ heritage and shed light on his role in the narrative.

The trefoil is a three-leaf symbol, often associated with the Shamrock, that often represents unity, balance, and the connection between three distinct elements. It pops up in various cultures and religions, each carrying its own weighty meanings:

-The Holy Trinity: In Christianity, the trefoil symbolizes the unity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, highlighting a profound balance in faith.

-Celtic Symbolism: Known as the shamrock, this symbol is tied to luck, fertility, and prosperity, especially in Irish culture, where it’s linked to St. Patrick.

-Triadic Balance: Across many mythologies, like Greek and Hindu, the number three signifies important concepts such as creation, preservation, and destruction, representing the fundamental forces of the universe.

In heraldry, the trefoil symbolizes nobility and unity, making it a fitting potential crest for the Figarland family.

This symbol would carry significant cultural and political weight, possibly representing their influence over three key forces:

-Heaven: Their ties to the World Government and the overarching order they maintain.

-Earth: Connections to the D. Clan and perhaps hints at the mysterious history of the Void Century.

-Sea: Shanks’ position as a Yonko, balancing the chaos of pirate life with a sense of order.

The trefoil might also reflect the Figarland family’s ideals, power, control, and preservation, values that Shanks could very well reject in favor of freedom. As the “Lost Trefoil,” Shanks’ journey away from his family symbolizes a break from the unified power of the Figarland dynasty.

Shanks himself embodies this dual nature of unity and division. Raised by Roger, he represents a break from the constraints of his Celestial Dragon bloodline. He acts as a bridge among the world’s factions, demonstrating his ability to mediate between chaos and order while turning his back on the corrupt ambitions of the Celestial Dragons.

In a broader sense, the trefoil often symbolizes celestial harmony, and this connection might help us understand the Figarland family’s role and Shanks’ potential origins:

-The Sun: Could represent the D. Clan, symbolizing freedom and rebellion.

-The Moon: Might connect to the Lunarians or reflect the hidden secrets of the Void Century and the Celestial Dragons’ agendas.

-The Stars: Could signify the Figarland family as the “stars” of the world.

Shanks’ destiny seems to weave together with the trefoil’s cosmic symbolism. He may play a crucial role in the conflicts to come, whether by uniting these factions or defying his Celestial Dragon lineage to forge a new world order.

In Celtic tradition, the trefoil, or shamrock, is a symbol of good luck, and this perfectly aligns with Shanks’ role in the story. He often seems to be in the right place at the right time, like when he saved Luffy from the Sea King or influenced the acquisition of the Nika Fruit.

-Good Fortune: His presence often tips the balance in favor of the protagonists.

-A Harbinger of Change: Shanks embodies the delicate balance between order and chaos, using his luck and influence to guide critical events.

In conclusion, I believe Shanks’ birth name is Saint Figarland Trefoil. This name not only reflects his rich heritage but also connects him deeply to the symbolism of the trefoil.

This would mean that Shanks is both separate to yet equal of his Brother Shamrock whom represents the darker aspects of the points I’ve brought up here.

I know…it’s lame.

[chrome badger]

I think Jaurl's memory may be messed up because of the sword in his head

[graceful helm]

Came up with this theory last year, but it's looking much more likely now.

In the most recent chapter road says there are no more pure blooded ancient giants left, but you can still see the characteristics ancient giants in some regular giants today.

How can it be possible that regular giants have ancient blood unless they are a hybrid of ancient giants and some other race?
Humans make the most sense given the fact giants normally look just like humans but larger.

[shadow ether]

Alright theory time

Before Elbaf arc is over
Either Luffy or Loki is gonna grab the arrows

As in the arrows that show trajectory of attacks that can’t be dodged

[proud anchor]

W

[wind saddle]

So where this goes now, I can only guess comes from Hajrudin and Loki being able to put their two versions of Harald back together into one picture. For Loki to realize that what he was taught by those guards wasn't the way. And for Hajrudin to give Loki a chance just like he did for Road.
The End of Theory

[long topaz]

When Ods introduces us to a new fruit user and tells us the name of the fruit, doesn't he normally also tell us what it made the person? To my memory he usually introduces them like "Rear Admiral of the Navy
PRINZ
(gloop-gloop fruit)
Clay-man"

But for Gunko it just says "Arrow-Arrow fruit", it doesn't say she's an Arrow-woman or anything. Is that just a translation issue, is Oda not consistent with it, or do you think it means something deeper, such as Imu just 'gifted' Gunko her arrow abilities temporarily, since it looks so similar to what got Cobra.

[chrome badger]

I'd wait for someone like dawn and dusk to do an analysis of the Japanese as this just seems like somebody translating inconsistiently.

[long topaz]

Yeah, I tried going back and checking but it seems to differ between scanlations.

[silk acorn]

harold died 14 yrs ago , shanks captured him 6 yrs ago. im assuming that loki met lola in the 8yr period he was a pirate

[untold ruin]

https://www.instagram.com/p/DFJiAAsOg8O/?igsh=MXMydXM3b21icGFwdA==

[runic aspen]

I got a mini theory
So we know that some giants have ancient giant blood (will be shortening it to AG for convenience sake)
And those with ag blood have horns
Kaido had horns
So maybe he was part AG

[thick oasis]

Kaido is of oni race like Yamato, these are the only 2 onis known so far, it would be strange if he has ancient giant blood, it is very likely that those who have part of that blood are the oars, since with what was seen in the manga it seems that the horns that the giants had at the time were the same color as their skin, since they did not come out from inside their head but the horns were part of their skull, the horns of the ancient king of Elbaph were part of his head that is why he has scars when removing them, on the other hand Kaido and Yamato had horns that came out from inside their body like the horns of an elephant or a mammoth

[cinder basin]

Oni may be a term used for humans with ancient giant blood. I think its unlikely that there is two seperate identical looking near extinct races

[chrome badger]

Well oda did declare Moria to be an Onion Human (Oni)on

[halcyon tusk]

Timeline/Theory

14 Years Ago(12 years before the start of series):

-Loki kills his father, King Harold, to steal the legendary Devil Fruit.

-The same year, Shanks steals the Nika Fruit, an act confirmed by Who’s Who.

-Shortly afterward, Luffy eats the Nika Fruit.

6 Years Ago:

-After eight years as a Pirate, with a bounty exceeding 2 billion berries, Loki is defeated by Shanks.

-Shanks chains Loki beneath the Treasure Tree Adam

-Shanks becomes a Yonko

Present Day:

-Two Holy Knights are currently attacking Loki to force him to join their ranks. One of them is Shamrock, Shanks’ twin.

-Loki, refusing to align with the Holy Knights, continues further complicating Elbaf’s already precarious position.

-Loki, if he is scarred by Shanks’ during their battle, fits the description of the “man marked by flames.”

-Loki has been chained up in Elbaf for six years, explaining why there have been no sightings or activity attributed to the “man marked by flames.”

-As a former Yonko, Loki likely possessed one of the Road Poneglyphs. This Poneglyph is now in Shanks’ hands, making him a key player in the race to Laugh Tale.

-Shanks’ victory over Loki most likely established him as Elbaf’s protector, ensuring the kingdom’s stability and his control over the Road Poneglyph once held by Loki.

-Shanks’ brutal defeat of Eustass Kid at Elbaf indicates he is protecting something precious, such as the final Poneglyph or Loki himself.

-Fire Sword (Rumor): Shanks’ fire-imbued sword likely caused the scars on Loki, adding to Loki’s legend as the “man marked by flames” if it turns out to be true.

The Significance of Elbaf

-Elbaf is the one place we don’t see Roger going in the Oden Flashback because at the time the Road Poneglyph was still in the Sea Forest at Fishman Island next to Joy Boy’s Apology.(Only mentioning this because it involves the Poneglyph and the only connection I can come up with here is that Shanks happened to be there back then)

-Loki’s imprisonment at the base of the Treasure Tree Adam symbolizes his fall from power and Shanks’ dominance.

-Elbaf, as Shanks’ stronghold, is the most likely location of the missing Road Poneglyph, making it a critical destination in the Straw Hats’ journey.

-The attack on Loki by Saint Figarland Shamrock and Gunko with her Arrow-Arrow Fruit(Road poneglyphs point the way; Arrows also point; the attack is also POINTless) suggests the World Government sees Loki as a key figure, either as a potential ally or a threat to their plans.

-Killer’s Sentiment: After learning of the fourth Poneglyph’s significance, Killer asks Kid if they are going to seek the “man with a burn scar.” Then they came to Elbaf.

-Kid’s Attack on Elbaf: Kid’s decision to confront Shanks at Elbaf suggests he believes Shanks is guarding the Poneglyph or Loki himself.

-This also explains Kid’s relentless pursuit of Shanks.

Why Loki Remains a Threat

-Shanks likely chose to imprison Loki rather than kill him to maintain peace in Elbaf and prevent chaos. Loki’s survival also ensures he cannot pass his Devil Fruit to another user.

-Loki’s eventual release, whether by accident or design, could reignite his ambition for revenge and power, making him a wild card in the final race for the One Piece.

-If Loki succumbs to the Holy Knights’ assault, his forced alignment with the World Government could drastically alter the balance of power.

Takeaways:

-This connects unresolved mysteries while setting up a climactic conflict at Elbaf.

-The identity of the “man marked by flames” is Loki, scarred by Shanks and chained beneath the Treasure Tree Adam for six years.

-Shanks’ rise to Yonko, his control of Elbaf, and his role as a guardian of the missing Road Poneglyph are key to understanding the current power dynamics.

-The involvement of the Holy Knights, particularly Saint Figarland Shamrock, Shanks’ twin, raises the stakes further, positioning Elbaf as a battleground for the future.

Thoughts?

[fresh scroll]

Holy shit, good read!!

[pastel socket]

is the "shanks having an evil twin" thing true?

i always thought it was real cause we see shanks at wano near the end of the wano arc,but then he is simultaneously docked at elbaph,which is a place after wano.since that isnt possible i thought that shanks having a twin thing is true.also,im pretty sure the real shanks wouldnt go so far in eliminating a possible threat that he made the giants wreck kids ship,and sink it....at least imo....

oh i should have read the text wall above sorry lol

mostly anime watcher and only look at manga for spoilers Hehe

[halcyon tusk]

Thank you! I’m glad that you enjoyed it!

[iron current]

But between Shanks being at Wano and him being in Elbaf there is like a week

[chrome badger]

Got a question who is going to explain the Holy Knights? Because Oda is pretty good at making sure different characters have different access to information so even if Loki knows who the Holy Knights are if the Strawhats are not able to ask Loki before they run into Gunko and Shamrock (which I feel is likely) who do you think will explain the Holy Knights. Options:

Robin, Generic answer but I do feel Oda has her more initate than fully explain major characters and events a lot of the time (Zou, Early Wano, ect.)

Yaurl: He has the historical knowledge, but I think that Sword in his head may be messing with him at least memory wise.

The Hat man: I think this guy might be a Rocks Pirate. Oda has given him the Shiki aestetic, but also possibly the Captain John drinking motion in chapter 1124. It would also check multiple important boxes throughout the series. A character to explain the Rocks Pirates to the Strawhats, to explain the Holy Knights, be a powerful and famous pirate worthy of being Collon's father, and be a fun side character to have.

[pure raven]

Gunko having the fruit that she does and seeing Imu's abilities first hand (Imu displaying abilities of Zoan, Paramythia and Logia all at once) lets one draw the conclusion that Imu posesses the abilities of perhaps every devil fruit all at once, or is perhaps able to consume and then infuse others with the abilities of devil fruits. We can assume that Imu has the powers of the op op fruit given that all of the elders seem to be immortal and the former has been seen taking causing Saturn to age to death. We can also now assume Imu also posesses the powers of the Arrow fruit given we see that black, (assumedly) haki-infused arrow flow out from them. We also see Imu transform into what would seem to be a mythical being. Some suspect it to be an Umibozu but I believe this to be either the Hito Hito no mi model: Celestial Dragon or the Kami Kami no mi model: Celestial Dragon. The name celestial dragon wasn't just pulled out of thin air one day for nothing. Imu's dream that caused the primary fruit to be spawned was perhaps to rule the world like a god. Such a selfish desire and dream could certainly have given birth to the spawning of devil fruits. Given Shamrock's failure to procure a new God's knight, one possible candidate springs to mind to fill that gap. A certain someone who just so happens to already know of the secret of Marijois national treasure. Donquixote Doflamingo

[hollow pier]

royal knight doffy would be fuckin wild actually

[cinder oriole]

Him in Shamrock’s uniform would go insanely hard

[halcyon tusk]

Well the basic deal regarding information in One piece is that we know what Luffy knows. Generally speaking that is. Just like for the most part, we see everything from the perspective of the Straw Hats. That said, there are outliers such as the wealth of hidden knowledge the crew keep to themselves unless Luffy directly asks given that cares enough to want to know, or if they believe the information is something he absolutely needs to know. That’s how i see it anyway but that isn’t to say that there aren’t instances when cutaways can reveal valuable information that we know separate from Luffy and Straw Hats but usually this is information that they would find out in the newspaper but not always. But to answer your question, Robin is most likely unless they run into Sabo or someone else like that. They’re about to learn first hand who the Holy Knights are though

[silk dock]

[King Harald is evil theory]

• He wanted Elbaph to join World Government
• ⁠He is not as good as the giants think
• ⁠He secretly allows child trafficking in Elbaph through Mother Caramel
• ⁠Loki & Jarul co-op to defeat him, with Loki taking the blame while Jarul hides the truth to protect Elbaph
• ⁠Holy knights were sent because their key person, King Harald was dead
• ⁠King Harald might be related to Kaido somehow

[hushed linden]

you guys think lokis devil fruit is foresight? like the ability to see things before they happen kinda like usopp?

his eyes are blocked by bandages maybe his eyes tell the story of what happened to the war at elbaph that lead to his inprisonment

i think its weird how he can dodge some attacks while being blindfolded

[magic kayak]

One thing for sure is that King Harald’s sword in the portrait is now on Jarul head 🫣

[cyan scarab]

I think Most of this is correct, what I believe happened the day that Harold died, Jarul and perhaps some other Giant Elders confronted him in the Kings Chamber about the Devils Circle that Harold had finally made, along with them Realizing he had Caramel brought to them on purpose the whole time.

To begin the fight perhaps one of the Elders in their old age struggled to bring a sword down on Harold in his chair creating that big gash. Then in his fury with the Gum Gum/ Nika fruit, and maybe the Holy Knights appearing, they began to kill every Giant and Ancient Giant in the Castle and Courtyard, when finally being overwhelmed by Loki who had to kill Harold outside in front of the other Giants who would have no Idea of the Elders intentions of confronting the King about his Heinous acts.

Loki having this already Chaotic nature wasn’t beloved by anyone for what he saw and had to run away, leaving the Nika fruit to be Lost entirely until eventually being found by Cipher Pol.

Also on top of wanting to gain Elbaph as apart of the WG, they wanted to get their hands on the Nika fruit, which had been “Evading them” or had been passed down in Elbaph to only the strongest Kings.

Meaning they would have never been able to invade and take the fruit without having to setup a massive operation, with Harold finally being the King that would be their way into Elbaph due to his nature for wanting to make it an Open Country.

[last estuary]

imu's forces = chess piece
8 hk = pawns (the exact number of hk is not stated so far)
gorosei = 2 rooks, 2 knights and 2 bishops
a hk (pawn) was promoted to gorosei (to either of those listed above), therefore there was 6 in total at one point. we know how this ended.
imu sacrifices one of his chess piece (saturn)
imu = king (their silhouette looks like a king piece, even down to the throne they sits on)
queen piece is missing and so was lily supposedly
imu is trying to replace the queen piece (vivi)
white is often portrayed as the color of purity and good, while black is associated with death and evil.
imu flipped the board and twisted the narrative in their favor
wg prominently uses both of these colors, primarily black.
white is used by the ignorant cds who are oblivious to the actual truth. they perceive themselves as gods, and thinks whatever they're doing is morally right.
while black is used by imu and co. they're fully aware of the history, their actions, the consequences blah blah blah y'all know the drill.
(Examples: shroud, black suits, black flames, summoning circles etc etc.)
i just had this thought and wrote it down as quickly as i can. it's just a dumb theory with somewhat of a solid foundation. don't bother to reply to this. i won't reply back. just let it disappear like a turd... in the wind... back to trolling.

[cyan scarab]

Nah this makes perfect sense Imho

There is 9 Holy Knights in the Silhouette, but that was before Garling got promoted and became an Elder so they would have 8 at the moment.

[umbral summit]

Hmmm may even Coby is related to Shamrock

[fervent herald]

U can use observation haki while eyes closed too and i think he has some kind of surtur devil fruit which charges up with him absorbing light from the sun using his eyes that also relates with him wanting to destroy the world during ragnarok in elbaf

[halcyon tusk]

Pretty sure that’s just excellent Observation Haki.

[halcyon tusk]

I agree that his eyes are covered because of his devil fruit ability but I believe it to be because of a completely different circumstance

[halcyon tusk]

Luffy couldn’t eat until he dodged 100 attacks from Rayleigh while blindfolded and this took him at least two weeks to do

[fast nimbus]

Cuz of the voice actor of puffy is getting older, when they’re on an islander, zoro who’s still called the pirate killer, is gonna fight luffy, and maybe uses a skill or idk cuts his voice cords, therefore destroying his freedom, this is so buns I know but u gta start somewhere

[loud nimbus]

Couple of holes in that theory….if harald was really on the side of the WG why would he let Saul a traitor of the marines on elbaph? Furthermore he allowed the books from Ohara to survive and probably knew of vegaphnk reading the library.

[halcyon tusk]

This is a valid point. He wouldn’t do either of those things. I think it’s pretty clear that King Harold really was a good dude. But I still believe Loki was framed for his murder and that is why he fled the country and why he wants to destroy everything now.

[halcyon tusk]

my brain:

[dusky acorn]

PART 1 "Gunko's" Former Identity

Enter "Gunko", an ill-tempered, young adult holy knight with heterochromia.

I believe that "Gunko" may have a true identity she is hiding beneath her current name and bandages.

Evidence for Gunko Having Former Identity

1. Only Holy Knight without a surname to portray a noble family. Despite being the only holy knight to recieve not one, but two character boxes, yet no further elaboration.
2. Differently coloured eyes, can symbolise how she has somehow been changed, altered, modified from whoever she originally was.
3. Masking her face with bandages.

"Gunko"s Projection

• It is intriguing the way Gunko acts so emotional when torturing Loki, overdoing it to the point that Shamrock has to tell her to stop.

• She seems dead set on the fact that being made a holy knight is such a marvellous life-saving "miracle" and privilege, and seems so passionate about how Loki wouldn't take this "miracle".

Precedence for Celestial Transformation

And of course, this scenario has precedence in the story, as we see Loki having an offer to become a Celestial Dragon, as well as York.

PART 2, "Gunko's" Connection to Eustass Kid

If this theory has been convincing enough for Gunko to have originally been a non-Celestial Dragon, then allow me to make my next proposition.

• I believe that "Gunko" is none other than "Victoria Shiruton Doruyanaika", the girl Eustass Kid one-sidingly loved and believed to have died. She is significant enough that Oda has continued to mention her, in 3 different SBS.
  ||(Interestingly, in the first and second SBS, Oda didn't reveal her full name included "Victoria", but later felt the need that she's important enough to expand on by telling us her full name.)||

Victoria has many traits that would fit the "Gunko" we see now.

• Both have similar hair length, style, and light colour.

• Both are strong girls and both seemingly use their fists to fight, judging by how Victoria beat up Kid and Killer where she appears unarmed.

• Both are extremely skinny.

• Gunko matches the age Victoria would be by now, a young adult.

https://imgur.com/a/CuvXgT1

• Gunko's pale eye matches Victoria's eyes before the other eye was presumably altered somehow.
  ||Note: Gunko's pale eye can be seen to be her "normal", original eye, as beforehand, that's the only one that the story kept trying to show us. Until the grand heterochromia reveal, for the other black eye later.. as if THIS is the one that's unnatural, for one reason or another.)||

• Both have harsh personalities.

According to Oda, Victoria was so furious Kid laughed at her, that she beat him up and never talked to him again. Both "Gunko" nor Victoria despise laughter at them, or any disrespectfulness for that matter.

Arrows Directing Destiny

Something that may have affected Victoria's change into "Gunko" is her devil fruit, likely given by the World Government. If she's gone through some sort of drastic change, then this exact fruit is a prime example to do it with.

Gunko outright states this about her devil fruit. She has successfully been made to believe wherever these arrows direct to, is her destiny. Even if these arrows were to direct her to fight for the World Government.

Broken Heart, Broken Ship

Despite Kid loving Victoria, he and her did not end off with each other on good terms. She never spoke to him again. Kid meeting her as having become a World Government villain would be a very meaningful impact on his character.

It would be very fitting now that the Victoria Punk ship has finally been destroyed, only for Kid to meet the current Gunko who has also killed the "Victoria" from his memory as well.

Of course it wouldn't make sense for Kid to have a ship named "Victoria Punk" on his side anymore, if his beloved person is now an enemy.

"Perfect, Deep Love"

• "Love" has been made into a concept of this arc, due to Sommers.

• Kid's flower is a tulip, most commonly associated with love. He also was a very romantic individual, in regards to Victoria.

Provoking Gunko About Love

• Sommers interestingly continues provoking specifically Gunko about love, as well. Why the set-up for her about this?

• Gunko likes to act all stoic when it comes to love, but we know for sure she IS an emotional person if even seeing a man in underwear can get her so flustered.

• So it really is either an act, or she simply has a negative experience when it came to pursuing love that she tries not to care about it anymore. Sound familiar to Victoria?

Cinematic Scenario

• So, what if Sommers ingrains thorns onto his allies like Gunko as a defensive buff, and also to finally rope her stubborn self into his romantic power she keeps rejecting?

• Meanwhile, Kid recognizes Gunko's real identity just like he recognized Kamazo was Killer, tries embracing her, gets hit by powerful thorns, but resists the punctures with his determination. Absolute cinema. 📽️

https://imgur.com/a/tRvweFx

Kid and Law's Arch Nemesis Parallel

• We know it was some sort of gang that allegedly killed Victoria, but what if Shamrock was the one pulling the strings behind this? Shamrock to Kid could be what Doflamingo was to Law.

• As for Doflamingo, he was a looming presence in the story before we even knew he had anything to do with Law. This could be what Shanks/Shamrock embody, completing this parallel within Kid's past.

.

Unaffiliated Lands

• It seems too convenient that Elbaph is an unaffiliated island just like Kid's own island, and now the holy knights also want to take over this island by force.

• It would be so ironic and meaningful for Kid if the present Victoria went through such a change to be playing a part in this.

https://imgur.com/a/qkWM8Um

A UnLikely Duo

• Shamrock and Gunko were made to appear together as a pair. This is why I believe they are not just an arbitrary duo, their relationship goes a bit deeper.

Parallel as Luffy's "Sabo"

• What if Shamrock found the allegedly dead Victoria, similar to Dragon and Sabo, and took her in due to seeing some sort of potential? Thereby trafficking her, and raising her into becoming "Gunko".

• Gag or not, Victoria was strong enough to beat up both Kid and Killer. Kid and Killer must have had some reason to take a liking to her. Her strength could have been one reason.

• After all, we know that Holy Knights are not above playing "games" on unaffiliated islands and discreetly kidnapping children from them.

• So what if the strong Victoria that even beat up Kid and Killer ended up joining their ranks?

Currently, it's undeniable Kid's story is paralleling Luffy's, due to the Demaro Black cosplay after Kid has gone missing, just like Luffy.

But what if we were to take the similarities of these situations a step further?

See attatched image for a summary of parallels:

https://imgur.com/a/BymhXTj

Like Father, like Son

If Shamrock had really transformed Victoria into the holy knight Gunko, he would be very similar to his own father Garling, who assumed York as his own direct subordinate as well.

Shamrock with Kid, Shanks with Luffy

• In a way, this would mean that Shamrock would be responsible for igniting Kid's spark to journey out of his home island and into a pirate, paralleling how his twin brother Shanks started Luffy's journey.

Additional Minor Points

• Gunko creates big arms/gauntlets with her powers. Only a handful of characters have done this in One Piece, and Kid with his own devil fruit is one of them. It would be fitting to see the two clash.

• Kid's other childhood companion Killer, also wore bandages to mask his true identity.

• Gunko even eats food with her mask on, just like Killer.
  https://imgur.com/a/k9ik4Hf

• Another "Victoria" in the story already has precedence for resurrecting and coming back to serve for a villain as well, Victoria Cindry.

• Plans for a mummy girl wearing a cloak just like Gunko can also be seen in Oda's notes for Thriller Bark.

I've really considered this Gunko theory a lot, and I think it'd be a fitting and high-quality development for Kid.
@night jewel @weak arrow @cobalt igloo @slate burrow @polar bison @modest skiff @little kelp @craggy pumice @frozen birch @left prism

[slate burrow]

I’m sold honestly, your train of reasoning is pretty damn solid

[chrome badger]

I like the depth of the Gunko theory, but I do have to point out the title boxes are a mix bag. None of the Important CD’s are given the title St for example (I think Imu just has the title Great) when we are introduced to the Gorosei and the Figarland Family (including Shamrock in that panel).

Im not saying you are wrong on most of what you said, but I do have to disagree that Gunko is not a CD.

Loki implied that Gods Knights are CDs and I think any non CD working for them are Cipher Pol agents.

A possibility worth considering is that Gunkos family name is either: Nerona to have closness with Imu or whatever Charlos and Roswelds are.

[little kelp]

dang I really like this theory, I really want Kid to be part of this arc somehow

I’m surprised he hasnt showed up yet

[forest wolf]

Is the Tashigi is Kuina theory debunked? 😦

[cobalt igloo]

This was such a great read, and I’m sort of worried about it getting my hopes up too high because it would tie in so many little threads

Also meek said he likes your theory too (he’s currently muted)

[graceful helm]

I love how people will be like "i think its pretty clear that harald was a good dude", then like an hour later someone will say "i think its pretty clear harald was a bad dude" 😂 Makes me think its not actually clear if harald is good or bad

[halcyon tusk]

I think people just wanna talk out of their ass with no real thought out into the nonsense they spout and it it literally serves no other purpose that general amusements

[graceful helm]

I guess we will have to wait and see who was talking out there ass in the next couple of chapters

[halcyon tusk]

who knows.

[pure raven]

you can be blind and still see with observation haki (e.g. fujitora) so loki is probably just a master of observation haki

[lunar shell]

Young Oda liked his puns. Like raftlel = laughtale.

Maybe the One Piece is simply One Peace. Or Won Peace.

[open ferry]

you convinced me ,this is a really solid theory

[dusky acorn]

Thanks, I would really appreciate a development like this a lot.

Honestly, think about it. Kid could care less about the giants. Why would he spend his effort fighting on Elbaph's side against the World Government?

Is Kid really going to go into a rage and fight with Shamrock just for the sake of looking like Shanks? Kid should have better things to do, like go after the man who just destroyed his ship and crew. Kid has been a primarily Emperor-focused character, so far.

If a theory such as mine doesn't come true, then Kid would officially have even LESS of a connection and investment in wanting to fight Shamrock and Gunko than he did to Kaido or even Big Mom. He had more history with both of them.

This isn't how Oda has been playing the final saga. He isn't just letting these side-characters get the spotlight to fight just for the sake of fighting. There has been deeper relations going on to develop these side-characters, both in Egghead and Hachinosu. Bonney with Saturn and Kizaru, Garp with Aokiji.

What my theory is.. is really as simple as repeating the script of Egghead:

Worst Gen member is on the island.
Villains appear.
Worst Gen member has connections to them and gets spotlight towards these villains.

Kid could have been allowed to meet Shanks on any other island in the world, even the one Barto was at. And things would play out the same, if we simply wanted the character's development to end. There has to be deeper meaning for his presence on Elbaph.

I'm really trying to get people to wake up and smell the coffee, before it's too late. Kid may look like a bit of a loser to some people, but if we just project a little further in the future, the potential can be forseen. I'm glad what I'm putting down is being picked up

[fierce bay]

best link with steam written wrong

[hexed pecan]

I theorize that Shanks somehow got lost & accidentally left Mary Geoise as a baby/little kid, and became the pirate he is known as today

Shamrock on the other hand grew up at Mary Geoise and thinks like any other Celestial Dragon

Shanks might not even remember his true family, since he barely remembers them

(The Marineford battle ended with Shanks, possibly confusing the Government thinking he was Shamrock, but idk if that might be correct)

But that's my theory 🤔

[spare jewel]

I saw this sketch on twitter and I see the vision

[little kelp]

this might happen

[versed echo]

what it mean?

[final bloom]

luffy vs gunko

[versed echo]

only if gunko shoots an arrow at nami/robin which she most likely will(maybe not nami or robin tho)

[vale aspen]

I had a dream about this and I needed to share. There has been a theory going on about the 3 Nikas of history, which include the original Nika, Joyboy, and now Luffy. I had a vision that the Gomu Gomu no Mi is not actually the true fruit of Joyboy, but the fruit's separation from the evil that once plagued it. What I mean by this, is that Luffy's original fruit went under fission during the Void Century. The fruit separated into 2 constituents, the Gomu Gomu no Mi and.... the Yami Yami no Mi. Please look at the two images. They are essentially the same fruit, but Luffy's is the positive variant, while Teach's is the negative variant. The true power of Luffy's fruit is to create anything from the user's imagination, while the true power of Teach's fruit is the ability to steal people's dreams/desires (via the manifestation of Devil Fruits) and use them as his own. Imagination vs Dreams. Meaning that Teach has very likely awakened the Yami Yami no Mi, in order to steal other people's Devil Fruit power via Darkness Absorption, and use them in his own arsenal. I presume that Nika and/or Joyboy had this power, but the fruit split into two portions of consciousness after the Void Century. There was also a description of the Yami Yami no Mi in the old Devil Fruit Encyclopedia, just like the Gomu Gomu no Mi. Since Teach is so well-versed in world history (his hobby in fact!), he probably knew that this fruit had a connection to Joyboy. I would also presume that he knew about Nika, and the Hito Hito no Mi: Model Nika. Teach really has one of the most powerful fruits. There is also a reason why he is hunting Devil Fruits and having his crewmates eat them. He does not care about them per se, but he does care about how he can use the Devil Fruits they have ate as his own.

[chrome badger]

All evidence (birthdays, sbs, other sudo cannon material) says Kuina is not Tashigi.

[hollow pier]

I like this theory, also makes me think about how teach has never slept, therefore he has never dreamed. It stands to reason that the Nika Nika no mi is for sure not the only god level fruit. Also that BB wanted the Yami-yami specifically means there must be a hidden ability, like the ones you are talking about. We havent exactly gotten a full explanation of what an awakened Logia can do yet, I know people think they can alter the weather around an area forever but maybe if you are correct and the Yamiyami is a god fruit its awakening will be similar (hopefully not the same) to Nikanika.

[dim garden]

I think shanks didn't use his sword while saving luffy and used haki and sacrificed his hand because his sword has devil fruit powers and can't be used in the sea.

[honest marten]

Luffy's Next Level of Power

With the appearance of Shamrock and Gunko on Elbaf, they seem apparent as the primary antagonists of the arc. However, their method of arrival via summoning circle may suggest that they won't be defeated in such a conventional way.

After all, Shamrock is presumably one of the 12 most important candidates in the race for the One Piece. To have him be punched out by Luffy immediately after his introduction, while possible, doesn't quite feel right. So instead let's look back to Egghead, and think on how Luffy might get the win over Shamrock without necessarily beating him down and breaking his dreams as he had other villains so he can continue to play his role in the story going forward.

In Chapter 1122, Emeth unleashes Joyboy's haki, and Luffy witnessed it blast away the Gorosei as they warped straight back to Mariejois. If Shamrock came by the same method of arrival (and if Luffy knew this), then that same technique should hypothetically work, but this time there is no haki from the past to save us, but we do still have a Joyboy.

This leads into what Dorry and Broggy said immediately after, which was- in the official version- questioning if it might be greater than Shanks' haki. Shanks has received several mentions in Elbaf already and we seem to be rocketing toward the point where the two finally meet, so it's possible Luffy will take inspiration from the giants' comments and try to make his haki strong enough to match Shanks and reach his same level.

Such an idea goes all the way back to the end of Wano, where Luffy detected Shanks' long range haki paralysing Aramaki, so the seeds for Luffy attempting to imitate Shanks in battle against his brother have been sown. Luffy learns from experience, such as understanding Conquerors Coating by getting hit by it again and again by Kaido, so Emeth serves as a key inspiration.

Of course, if the summoning circle in the castle still remains (since it's possible that it was already drawn there rather than created with the Gods Knights arrival), Shamrock could come right back, but there are avenues for this to be destroyed. For example, Sanji saw the Gorosei's circles on Egghead, and if he sees the circle at some point, then that could open the door for another Mr Prince style clutch moment that he's known for, though other possibilities, like the mystery kasa hat man being the one to stop the summoning, could also happen.

Overall, the Joyboy haki blast has shown Luffy how far he has to reach, especially with its comparison to Shanks, his existing goalpost, so I think here on Elbaf, Luffy will grow his haki to the extent of Joyboy, ready for the upcoming greatest war to become the Pirate King and reignite Imu's PTSD.

[keen trellis]

6.8k likes and ppl thought i was crazy for believing this

[honest marten]

Hes bigger than the ship 😭

[keen trellis]

the owl bro

[mighty moon]

The owl only grows

[keen trellis]

correct and i will also correct ya with the owl can only grow inorganic objects

which is the sunny

interesting thing for saul to point out

[honest marten]

That would make the entire ship giant sized permanently so for the other straw hats it'd be weird

[keen trellis]

luckily the crew has a shipwright who can customize the ship to fit for everyone

[graceful helm]

the thing being grown has to stay close to the owl or it shrinks again, so they would also have to bring the owl with them which seems unlikely since it is the head librarian of elbaph.

Also oda saying it only grows inorganic things was to let the reader know that the power is specifically for the books, and wont be used to make people bigger.
I can see the power being used in a fight maybe something with usopp, but its unlikely itll be used to make the sunny bigger so that loki can join.

People tend to think because something has a lot of likes that means its true, but most of those likes are from people wanting loki to join the strawhats not from people actually believing he will.

[dusk viper]

Maybe when luffy and bb fight, if luffy wins the two fruits will merge back together to restore the balance

[keen trellis]

you’re just assuming that objects turn back small when they are out of the owl’s range which has not been confirmed, it’s only said that things objects turn big when it reaches the owl’s range, give me proof that it says otherwise

[graceful helm]

pretty sure it has been confirmed, one of the giants says it

[keen trellis]

alright ill reread

[keen trellis]

yea i see nothing saying that, the only giant who talks about the owl is saul

[graceful helm]

saul says the he grows any books "within his territory" and that books that werent originally big can be shrunk down.

[keen trellis]

yes but it’s not straight up said that being out of the owl’s territory can make it shrink, it’s just said that it’s possible to revert it but it can very much be the case that the owl shrinks it back, we don’t know

like you expecting usopp to be fighting in the library with a big weapon?

[graceful helm]

with powers like that they are usually permanent, there's a stipulation or time limit in play.
We see that with foxy slow slow powers, shinobus age age fruit and Bonney's time fruit.

given the fact that he specifically says that the books need to be within his terriotry its most likely the stipulation is range

[graceful helm]

im not expecting anything i just said its a possibility, since it works on inorganic material

[keen trellis]

it has be in his territory to actually grow it i mean obviously that makes sense but it’s literally just said to be that

[graceful helm]

if it were permanent they likely would have said that, like they did with shinobu

[keen trellis]

do you think the giants can only read the books in the library?

[graceful helm]

yes

[keen trellis]

because assumption

[keen trellis]

and if it was said they get reverted back to normal due to being out of range, he would’ve said that

[graceful helm]

educated guesses, but if you want to use the word assumptions then its a way bigger assumption to assume the power is permanent when we have evidence that its not and Oda would normally tell us if it was

[keen trellis]

the Sunny being upgraded to hold a pluton 2.0 is the main reason why i think the sunny is going to be sized up

but with that loki will be able to join them

[graceful helm]

pluton is a warship in and of itself, not just a weapon that can be attached to another ship.
i think its very unlikely that franky would turn the sunny into pluton if thats what you are suggesting.

For one thing turning his pirate ship into a weapon of mass destruction doesnt seem like something luffy would do

For another, franky has already said he has no interest in building pluton.

[keen trellis]

the sunny already has weapons in it, this isn’t some new thing, Franky was not wanting to make it so it can be used by the government. The concept of it was to use it if the og pluton got into the wrong hands, Franky building the pluton 2.0 for good to protect everyone feels like something Franky was meant to do. Blackbeard is most likely getting a hold of pluton which is in Wano so it’s very much being put in the wrong hands.

[graceful helm]

theres a difference between having weapons on your ship that are meant to defend the ship and creating a weapon of mass destruction that can detroy whole islands

[keen trellis]

it’s not gonna screw up the Sunny, it’s just getting an upgrade one last time before the final war

[keen trellis]

are you missing the point on purpose? pluton 2.0 is not meant to destroy unless it’s used by corrupt people like the government, its meant to protect the world if the og is potentially being used to actually destroy islands like youre saying

[graceful helm]

what you said isnt canon its just an assumptions you are making to fit the narrative you want to happen

we have no idea what the end game of the ancient weapons will be

[keen trellis]

right when i explain the point of pluton 2.0 you go back to “well it just assumption” yeah it’s a theory 😭 guess what channel we on, please tell me what the point of pluton 2.0 storyline is for when of course it’s gonna be relevant when the literal og weapon is going to be used for destruction

[graceful helm]

what pluton 2.0 storyline, where in the manga does anyone talk about pluton 2.0? where does franky suggest that he wants to build pluton

[keen trellis]

the storyline in water seven?

[graceful helm]

if anything pluton 2.0 likely wont happen because we already know that pluton is under wano

[keen trellis]

yes?

[graceful helm]

its much more likely that pluton will be used rather than abrand new one being built

[keen trellis]

what about it being under wano

yes ik it will be in use

blackbeard will definitely be using it

[graceful helm]

Or, someone will stop him and take it for themselves? perhaps the strawhats

[keen trellis]

blackbeard wanting to get ahold of an ancient weapon makes sense, him getting that weapon ups the stakes a whole lot more, they already foreshadowed the possibility of pluton being in the wrong hands, why would the strawhats go back to wano for? blackbeard is definitely going to be heading there soon due to the info from caribou

“blackbeard (one of the main antagonists) goes to wano to get pluton” -> “he fails to get it” like what kind of storytelling is that?

ofc he’s going to obtain it

[graceful helm]

you forgot one thing pluton isnt the only weapon blackbeard could go after

there happens to memaid princess that is also an ancient weapon. and theres also a prophecy that luffy will destroy fishman island. who does black beard have on his crew that could impersonate luffy?

so is it possible that BB could go after shirahoshi which would be much easier and luffies allies on wano use the pluton in their possesion to counter him or Imu?

[keen trellis]

ITS LITERALLY THE WEAPON THAT CARIBOU IS GONNA TELL TO BLACKBEARD 😭 there’s literally no mention of blackbeard wanting to go to fishman island why assume he wouldn’t go for the weapon that’s very obviously has been set up to go to like literally what would be the point of the caribou scene ur rlly trying ways to not let it be the case even though there’s evidence

[graceful helm]

caribou knows about pluton and shirahoshi bro

did you forget caribou was on fishman island when the strawhats learned about poseidon?

[keen trellis]

so you just assume blackbeard is just gonna go for shirahoshi? just because it would prove my theory wrong right?

[graceful helm]

im saying that there's more options that you haven't considered.
and youre ignoring/disregarding anything that could disprove your theory.

[keen trellis]

ur literally doing the same thing when i bring points proving my theory, like tell me what the point of even having Caribou know about where Pluton is at all? it’s not me ignoring other options it’s just literally smth that’s stated

what even have it even be mentioned that pluton could possibly go into the wrong hands why even have the pluton 2.0 idea to begin with

[graceful helm]

umm because it gives more than one option to black beard and makes it harder for the reader to guess what his next move is? because it gives oda more freedom as a writer to choose how the story is gonna go and doesnt box him into one specific corner?

Why poseidon even be an option for black beard if Oda was deadset on him going for pluton?

Why would blackbeard decide to go after pluton when it would be a much harder fight, when he could just kidnap shirahoshi like he did pudding and have lafitte hynoptize her?

luffy destroying fishman island has been a point of controversy since it became known. It would make perfect sense if the person who sharly saw wasnt actually luffy and devon in disguise.

[keen trellis]

he could very much get both weapons, but id assume he would go for the weapon that isn’t a living being first

[graceful helm]

why?

[keen trellis]

because it’s much easier to control 😭

[graceful helm]

it would be much harder to break into wano a famously hard place to break into, and then force them to tear down the walls so he could get a huge warship out

[graceful helm]

what? it would be extremely easy to kidnap shirahoshi and have lafitte hypnotize her

youre not even reading what i wrote

i can tell because you are responding way to quickly

[keen trellis]

oh you don’t expect much from one of the endgame villains?

[graceful helm]

i expect blackbeard to take the easiest route available, since thats kind of what hes known for?

[keen trellis]

what?

[graceful helm]

literally known for making moves only when he is sure he will be successful and running away when he thinks there is any risk

its like his whole character

[keen trellis]

oh yes because blackbeard right now doesn’t think he’s powerful enough?

[graceful helm]

dude has 2 devil fruits and ran away from akainu when he had half his crew with him

[keen trellis]

him going for both makes sense anyways

[keen trellis]

marineford? how many arcs was that?

[graceful helm]

it really doesnt, why would he need 2 ancient weapons they all do the same thing.
it makes much more sense for each weapon to be an a different factions hands

imu has 1 bb gets 1 straw hats get 1

[graceful helm]

that wasnt during marine ford that was after the time skip lol

[keen trellis]

oh ok so you’re just gonna assume the other option just because it can disprove my theory 😭

[graceful helm]

after he became an emperor he ran from akainu

[keen trellis]

tbf i don’t believe any of the wano characters are akainu

[graceful helm]

yeah thats fine wasnt my point

my point is one of the ancient weapons is much easier to egt than the other

and we have a weird plot line that could be fixed by devon going to fishman island

[keen trellis]

yea and my point is ofc he running away from one of the most powerful characters in the verse😭

[graceful helm]

hes an emepror with half his crew?

[keen trellis]

wano don’t got akainu

[graceful helm]

make up your mind is BB powerful and ready to fight or not?

one second youree syaing BB is pwoerful the next youre making excuses for him running

pick a position

[keen trellis]

if there was a kaido still around obviously bro wouldn’t but there’s literally no reason why he wouldn’t now

[keen trellis]

i think both

[graceful helm]

except for the fact that getting to fishman island would be way easier

[keen trellis]

i do think blackbeard is powerful but i also know he wouldn’t want to face a dude is very much top 5 rn

[graceful helm]

im not getting into power scaling i can see you are trying to move the goal post so ill get us back on track

[keen trellis]

this “way easier” shit to prove ur point isnt really proving anything when Caribou knows about it makes the plot of him knowing pointless otherwise

[graceful helm]

BB is known for only making moves when he will be successful. it would be easier in everyway for him to capture shirahoshi over pluton. and it would wrap up the loose thread of why luffy would destroy fishman island

[keen trellis]

what does blackbeard kidnapping shirahoshi have to do with luffy destroying fishman island?😭

[graceful helm]

if you read my messages i already explain it twice

[keen trellis]

how does that solve anything?

[graceful helm]

im not gonna bother having the discussion since youre obviously not reading my full messages. thats the second time you have asked a question i answered already

[keen trellis]

literally just point me to that exact message

[graceful helm]

nah read through it in find it

[keen trellis]

literally nothing from the shit ur saying equates to “oh no shirahoshi has been taken to be use as a weapon, i guess ill have to destroy fishman island which will let shirahoshi go free from blackbeard”

[graceful helm]

just proves that you didnt read my full messages, like i said not gonna bother having a discussion with someone who doesnt even listen to the opposing side

[keen trellis]

devon has never touched luffy, she has to touch the person to become them, but even if blackbeard does get shirahoshi idk why he wouldn’t also want to obtain both weapons

[graceful helm]

the convo is over on my part, no point in having a convo when i cant even be sure you reading what i wrote, waste of my time and effort

[keen trellis]

ok dude make up excuses to get out of it even though i literally just found ur reasoning

[graceful helm]

lmao its not an excuses im not gonna debate you of youre not even reading what i wrote, whats the pont of saying anything if you only read half

[keen trellis]

i just read what u wrote 😭

[graceful helm]

like 10 minutes later?

sorry thats not how debates work

[keen trellis]

oops i broke the rules 🤓☝️ who give asf 😭 i have adhd i miss parts easily my bad

[hollow pier]

Oda has never had the crew back track to an island yet, i dont see them going all the way back to fishman

i thought near the end of wano that BB was going to capture vivi on alabasta

then it didnt happen

i do see BB going after shirahoshi but she might be somewhere else

[graceful helm]

you didnt miss it you skipped it, you read one part of what i wrote and then immediately responded without finishing. its a common tactic for people who arent actually interested in debating and just want to be right.

I know because you started replying seconds after i posted several times

[keen trellis]

ok sure put me in with those people

[graceful helm]

you put yourself there not me

[keen trellis]

i wasn’t skipping on purpose i beg of you😭

[graceful helm]

its lunch time tho so ima dip, have a good day

[keen trellis]

why would i look over it just to eventually talk about it when i realized i did miss that?😭

ok

[little warren]

do you think that shanks purposely gave up his arm so when the time comes, only luffy can determine the difference between shanks and shamrock? what you guys think? not sure if this topic has been opened on other channels but I find this one interesting.

[dusky acorn]

I don't think so. It shouldn't be only Luffy that can determine the difference between Shanks and Shamrock. Besides their disparity in arms, Shanks always has a shorter hairstyle and a very clear eye scar that Shamrock lacks. This would all be clear just by seeing the aforementioned Emperor's bounty poster.

By the way, I'm curious what you were referring to from "only Luffy"?
Out of the Straw Hats?

But even Robin or Nami for example, (who always stay in the know or often read the news) most likely have seen Red Hair's infamous wanted poster or read an article about him, to be able to tell the difference between the two. The scar is even on his jolly roger.

[magic kayak]

I think that seaking is suspicious, it could be some one with well trained assassin devil fruit that control it

[clever pecan]

Thats a good theory but it kinda lacks ngl, luffy can distinguish shanks and shamrock prob by the scar and also the hair

[solar hedge]

What are the chances that the Red Line was raised artificially so that Imu could buy time saving the Celestial Dragons on the top of it? Gives them a few hundred extra years to build those bridges while they turn the world into a series of big bowls.

[honest marten]

We know the Lunarians lived on it before Imu and co came along so it's likely they just seized it from them to escape the flooding

[solar hedge]

Ah, right. I keep forgetting it's confirmed the Lunarians had it first

[latent oracle]

is this the r place to post this??

should i continue or post it in other place?

[slim wyvern]

From what im understanding of the mural theres 3 distict time periods to one piece

[crystal minnow]

alr i figured it out. The monster is DEFINITELY Blackbeard reason being we know the devil fruits came from the sun and wishes. We see the monster holding the sun. Guess who can turn off devil fruit powers by touching devil fruit users? BLACKBEARD

so in all reality Imu came after Blackbeard and isnt the end game antagonist ABSOLUTE PEAK

[slim wyvern]

1. The Pre-void era, a place of chaos where joy boy came to be from the wishes of many people struggling, and the sun is the forbidden star they wished to, the god of the land was enraged about them worshiping another being so sought revenge by using a serpent of fire (which could relate to skypias snake) which cast the world into darkness and death by removing the sun, possibly by granting power to a man like blackbeard with the Darkness fruit

[dusk viper]

Plot twist: bb steals imus fruit

[clear gate]

pretty sure the second world is the second world is the void century. only because of the words sea god

[crystal minnow]

Nah joy boy is second war

first war nika came into existence from the wishes

he never existed before hence why he came after they wished

[clear gate]

imu backwards is sea in japanese and umibozu is a sort of sea spirit

[slim wyvern]

2. The Void Era, different gods join in as the god of the forest helps with the Devils, those granted power by the gods as the sun chooses a champion being joy boy, "those of crecent and full moon dreams" is most likely the kozuki clan and maybe will of D, and the ones who slain the will of the sun are the 20 governments which Invoked the sea gods wrath causing those with the power to be destroyed in its domain

[slim wyvern]

Yea halfway i kinda flipped realising

[pure raven]

thats crazy cuz loki is the father of jormungandr which wraps around the entire sea in norse myth

[crystal minnow]

also imu HAS to he god of the forest thats why his little room is filled with plants and shi

[slim wyvern]

But what about ryosui or whatever the Forest Fruit that seems like the god of forests power

[crystal minnow]

most likely just a fruit made by one of the selfish humans. Maybe trying to be like Imu.

[slim wyvern]

Imu has to be related to darkness like they say the Shadow refering to him i feel

[crystal minnow]

Also Blackbeard talked about engulfing aces sun

[slim wyvern]

Honestly the big words im focusing on are these

"they wiould not meet again"

And the third one "Surely, this time, they will meet"

[clear gate]

who is they tho?

100% one is joy boy

[crystal minnow]

second war

[slim wyvern]

I think its refering to the sun god and Earth God

[crystal minnow]

is joy boy

the one who failed

[slim wyvern]

Sun god being Luffy and oy boy

the god of land is specified in the first part seeming to be a big point of it

he brings the darkness

[crystal minnow]

but

its said the god of the forest made demons

im thinking these are the elders fruits

[clear gate]

fair but as of right now we still don't now who that is

[slim wyvern]

not demons, devils

[crystal minnow]

yah

[slim wyvern]

wait think about it god of the forest and devil FRUIT

[clear gate]

and lot's of people seem to think dragon has a god fruit for some reason

[slim wyvern]

the god of the forest Bore the fruit of the gods and wishes of man

thats what it means giving the devils it Gave the fruit to the people

[crystal minnow]

Well we see the humans taking the suns to the one wearing the crown who i think is imu

Doing the selfish wishes

that made the god of the sea mad

[slim wyvern]

Im wondering how the town fits in the Steamwork town it seems to be showing the technological advance or something

[slim wyvern]

no its saying the defiance of the wishes made him mad

[proper lance]

Has anyone labelled the cave drawing yet?

[slim wyvern]

"yet the ones who slew the sun defied themselves, evoking the wrath of the sea god"

It wasnt the wishes it was those who defied the gods and slew the sun

[clear gate]

dont think so but is the center of the mural the tree adam

[proper lance]

Loki was in the fight against imu

[crystal minnow]

hmmmmmmm? I think the sun here is refering to joy boy.

[proper lance]

And a giant whale? It's either laboon or the whitebeard ship

I forgot it's name

Moby dick

[crystal minnow]

the actual sun was only shitted on in the first war

[clear gate]

the big monster things on the mural are probably the elders

looks like their forms

[slim wyvern]

heres what i think
the characters are more vessels for gods Or certain ones are

[winter ocean]

So I think the god of the land had Land-Land powers and rose the Red Line and that’s the flaming snake, creating the first apocalypse.

I think they were probably Lunarian. Nika failed to oppose them but was an idea born from the prayers of the oppressed.

World 2– the god of the forests nurturing its devils is the creation of Devil Fruits. In this era dreams became real and Joy Boy ate the Nika fruit and prepared for war with the Lunarians. It ended tragically when the allied nations betrayed and slew Joy Boy after the Lunarians were beat, and let the world flood. The curse of the sea god is the flood and the devil fruit effects.

In the first two eras they would not meet, I think the they is meant to be oceans. The oceans were divided in era 1 and would not meet in the first two eras but surely they can meet when Nika returns.

[proper lance]

There was a lunarian but- isn't king dead?

Also three ships- it's either law, kidd, and cross guild or the three yonkos

[slim wyvern]

king isnt dead but otherwise idk if the mural Is trying to be specific to characters i think its more showing what will happpen not anything specific

[crystal minnow]

king will be against Blackbeard ofc

[proper lance]

There was also a tontatta, a mink

[slim wyvern]

its trying to say the races will come together under the sun god to take back the sun

[proper lance]

A fishman too

[rich quarry]

one of the boats has like wano people

[crystal minnow]

im still convince that monster is Blackbeard it just cant be imu

it wouldn’t make sense if it was

[proper lance]

Samurai

[rich quarry]

well ninja too then there is a shuriken

[grand comet]

The people that slew Nika deified themselves and incured the wrath of the sea devil.

Could it be that they had to kill Joy Boy in order to establish access to the the world of dreams, where they could dream up of divine abilities and make them real by the forest god?

Could it be that Imu misses Joy Boy, isn't an enemy?

[proper lance]

Also, joyboy is dark colored... Maybe GEAR 6??

[clear gate]

i think he's just covered in haki

[proper lance]

There was still a fire decal in the third world

[crystal minnow]

i think the people that killed nika just wished up crap fruits like lightning whicu were selfish and made the god of the sea mad.

i also think imu made people give the pieces of the sun to him. Thats why nobody has really came up with a new fruit recently

i think oda is just playing us with imus name for once

[minor coral]

they will meet again: sun god and sea god, "a new dawn will break" dawn is where the sun rises from the sea, lighting up the world

[late elm]

there are only 2 worlds depicted in the mural

times sperated by the adam tree

the third world is occuring in the presnet time and hasnt been drawn yet

[proper lance]

Maybe the mother flame will spread? Or sabo will die

[late elm]

what

[crystal minnow]

guys i think the they could never meet again is usless

it just means

loss

loss

win

because blackbeard and imu are both existing meaning they will both meet luffy

the third time

they will never meet nika or the first user because he is dead

the story has alr been told

same with the second

joy boy is alr dead so they will not meet again

the person that made that thinks luffy or the next sum god

sun

will win

[slow ravine]

I think you’re right because the left one depicts joyboy and forces from the void century that we know resisted the WG or at the very least were allies of JB (wano, alabasta, lunarians, fishmen, minks, giants)
Either it’s depicting 2 ages with the Adam tree separating them or the tree represents the red line and shows the war of the void century happening on both sides of the red line cause we see Noah the arc

[crystal minnow]

its like saying somb killed ny father they will obviously not meet him again but they will meet me again which is like meeting my father again. 🤷‍♂️

[dusk iron]

saul literally said that the 3rd world is the present and a type of prophecy. therefore, in the mural are the first and second world

[slow ravine]

Yeah I’m seeing the mural more of a hint at what happened in the void century and not foreshadowing for future events

[feral parrot]

ive found so many things in the Mural

[crystal minnow]

yahh fr but some people are confused on it for sum reason

[crystal minnow]

also did you see why i think Blackbeard is the monster? I think it makss perfect sense fr

I also think

Blackbeard isnt just the god of the earth

[lunar acorn]

look at the descriptions of the baddies in each of the worlds
world 1 baddie was darkness, ie. whatever was the original supernatural dark which small elements existed in current age like blackbeard, rocks, tot musica
world 2 baddie was imu and that's pretty self explanatory
the sun god was created during world 1 by the enslaved people's dreams, and so we're in world 3 where we have 3 sides of conflict at once
so I mean buggy will be the king of pirates cause where three fight the fourth one wins

[haughty cloud]

What if the first world is the moon and the forbidden star they seek is the earth

[lunar acorn]

the lunarian people are only mentioned by world 2, no?

[slow ravine]

Actually so true, the reason Nika and joyboy lost is cause buggy wasn’t there

[slow ravine]

Red nose….red….line?! 👀

[crystal minnow]

i think Blackbeard is the god of the earth (the monster) and the serpent plus a moon dreamer or wtv it was called

considering he is called them

and three people

[slow ravine]

The mural depicts the void century and before though, how are you seeing BB in there when he’s from the modern age and we know he isn’t immortal from the ope operation ?

[lunar acorn]

actually you might be right, it seems it's moon where enslaved escaped to after sun's defeat

[crystal minnow]

well just like how luffy is the “sun god”

[latent tide]

The left is a profecy, so it's what'll happen

[crystal minnow]

i dont think people get devil fruits by accident especially the one luffy and Blackbeard have

blackbeard wanted that fruit for so long and it just so happens his crewmate has it? No way

[raw scarab]

So Nika was the peak of genetic engineering

[slow ravine]

I don’t think so because emmet is there and the Nika we see is depicted with a shield and sword like how we’ve seen joyboy depicted, also all the people around him are from places that we know opposed the WG during the void century, the only issue with this is that we don’t see zunesha at all but they might have been transformed into an elephant afterwards

[rapid dagger]

To be fair he said he joined that crew cause it was the highest odds of actually finding it. It’s not like he didn’t stack the deck

[crystal minnow]

also i mean it just makes sense. The sun deals with the fruits and we see the monster holding it. Blackbeard can turn offf fruits by holding people thats like a direct correlation

[crystal minnow]

ehh well he was a kid so what i think he meant was that crew is strong its not like they’ll lose early or sum

[slow ravine]

True but also the sun in its hand could also be the ancient energy source that Vegapunk said emmet used to run on and that he created the mother flame to replicate (also what powers Uranus)

Cause Uranus apparently used the mother flame to destroy lulusia but didn’t exist til Vegapunk (who had been researching the ancient technologies and looking into power sources) created. Before Vegapunk the weapons must have been powered by something else which is what I think the sun in the beasts hand is and the fight with joyboy came down to whoever had control of this energy

I like the theory that the land god rose the red line (serpent of fire) and the “they will not meet again” is about the 2 seas meeting cause Luffy is prophesied to destroy the red line and fishman island which would lead to “surely this time they would meet” which also lends to the theory that destroying the red line would form the All Blue

[undone holly]

so if i understand the last page... 1st World the world was enslaved and the slaves wished for a god to free them ( Nika appeared ) and the Devils just burned the world to defeat and erase them. 2nd World the world wished for god powers and Devil Fruits were born ( Joy Boy had Nika fruit ) he then knew about a prophecy that he wasnt the savior of the world so with the help of a traitor ( that i think is the lover of Imu in the time ) Lili helped him to make and scatter Poneglyphs so the future Nika could be helped to defeat Imu in the 3rd world.

[crystal minnow]

Well it is infinite energy right? Ig it makes sense to why it can answer wishes and shi

[latent tide]

There's a quote from Einstein that the 3rd world war will be fought with sticks and stones, since the present is confirmed to be a post apocaliptic scenario it could be a reflection of why everyone has swords on the left

[crystal minnow]

it was just the serpent of hell and the earth god that ended the 1st world

plus i dont think nika was real

since he only appeared when they wished

buy the other gods are alr there so why wasnt he

[haughty cloud]

Thats why i thought first world is moon it is destroy they escape to earth and meet the people there and they have a war.

[crystal minnow]

they wished nika into actual existence with a fruit imo

[dusk iron]

yeah i think so too

[slow ravine]

I agree, I think Nika was just a story to help inspire slaves and didn’t exist til the fruit brought their wishes to life in joyboy

[crystal minnow]

also god of the sun has parenthesis around it

no other god does

[haughty cloud]

the one advance country is the one who escape from moon.

[undone holly]

i think its otherwise... they reached the Moon so the Earth God punished them burning the moon

[crystal minnow]

hmmm? Earth god was first world no?

[undone holly]

they tried to escape from Eath to moon to be free, so the serpent of hell burned everything

[undone holly]

yeah... in the first world the ppl to be free tried to escape to the moon, reached there and then the Serpent of Hell burned them

[haughty cloud]

Hmm so in first world nika help them go to the moon

[crystal minnow]

hmmm

no

ehh

[haughty cloud]

Oh thats make sense thats why they call him sun god

[undone holly]

maybe

[crystal minnow]

i dont think anything happened with the moon first world

[haughty cloud]

In first world they seek the forbidden star

[undone holly]

i think so cause whats the Forbidden Star other than moon in the first world?

[crystal minnow]

we see the people on boats and shi tho?

[haughty cloud]

So the slave goes to the moon but something maybe solar flare the moon get destroy

[haughty cloud]

They are escaping from the moon cause its burning

They back to earth

But not welcome

[crystal minnow]

its was talking about earth tho?

[haughty cloud]

Cause they are descendant of slave

[crystal minnow]

it says earth

in first world

[undone holly]

Earth god was enraged cause they left to go to the moon

[haughty cloud]

In first world it said the earth is burning

[wanton pond]

is there a general theory out for the harley inscriptions?

kind of curious what people are thinking

[crystal minnow]

is the sun on the moon?

[haughty cloud]

They escape cause the earth is burning

The earth god enrage and burn the place they escape with

[crystal minnow]

yah but it never said they did anything to the people that went to the moon

it said he burned eartg

earth

[haughty cloud]

They seek the forbidden star

[crystal minnow]

they alr touched it first world

thats why hes mad

[haughty cloud]

So the earth is burning already but burn by earth god again thats makes no sense

[crystal minnow]

He only burned it once

[haughty cloud]

At the start it said the earth is burning

Already burning

[crystal minnow]

the people fled to the moon and dreamed

[crystal minnow]

it’s explaining why it’s burning gng

[keen trellis]

interesting

[crystal minnow]

LOL

btw guys the earth god didnt burn the world

we can see what burned the world

it shows it breathing fire

the serpeny

serpent

[keen trellis]

i mean Franky knows how to build it

[haughty cloud]

If you read a side story of enel skypians are from the moon

[crystal minnow]

yah they fled to the moon when first world was burning

[haughty cloud]

I thought you said they dont go to moon im confuse now

[cyan scarab]

In my opinion the Mythical Zoan God Fruits will always reincarnate more towards those with the same aligning Will.

“The God of the Forest sent forth Demons”(World 2)

If the god fruits reincarnate towards those with the same will, Greenbull was finally revealed at the very end of the Wano Arc, conveniently appearing right after Luffy was designated “Sun God”

If the “Forest God” is bringer of Demons, could this either mean that whatever Life Greenbull brought forth in Wano is going to end up turning against them? As it technically is still the Life Force of the Admiral.

What if the “Demons” brought forth were the life it grew from the Devil Fruit wielded by the User at the time.

A solid piece of evidence to back is the up is the Nature of Logia’s is One Piece, they are all Dominator’s of their Domain.

Crocodile could take Alabasta from the Nefertari by stealing the Desert from them. Enel could rule the skies by using the very Thunder brought by the Clouds the Sky People Live on. I could go on, Pica controlling Dressrosa for Doflamingo, Pizarro for Teach.

But oh so conveniently over the years the WG would gain Lava, Light, Ice, but finally again they finally have the worlds Forest in their hands.

And who else have the fruit than the Celestial Dragon ass kisser himself, the Admiral Aramaki “Greenbull” Ryokugu.

The World Government played their hand by sending the Forest after the Sun while they belived he was weak. But the Redhair Shanks himself, again intervening in another form of devine fate for Luffy.

Until proven otherwise, the Sun god fruit was given to a 9 year old child on “accident”, them revealing that Greenbull is the Forest God makes perfect sense to me.

[crystal minnow]

they didnt go before it burned.

[cyan scarab]

My Greenbull is the forest god Case 🙏

[crystal minnow]

ehh I don’t think

greenbull is a god

or has a god fruit

[keen trellis]

ew greenbull relevancy

[haughty cloud]

From the start of the that it already said the earth is burning

[crystal minnow]

i think somb wished for that fruit hence why it’s immune to fire

[cyan scarab]

They aren’t really gods, they are mythical Zoans. Luffy had the primarily paramecia powers up until Time Skip, so a Logia being hidden as a Zoan is entirely possible

[crystal minnow]

it makes perfect sense

[raw gust]

Alright, i have a theory that "The sun" described in the 1138 text is in fact the one piece. It would align with joyboy and luffy being "sun gods" and them being strongly connected to the one piece. If we also go by what the giant says, that there has never been a recorded alliance between giants and other races, then the leftmost battle is probably a prediction of the future. We can also see some recognizable faces in the crowd. In this battle, the sun seems to be the central piece, like the one piece in the upcoming war. This also explains why this "sun" that we have not heard of earlier is so important through the 3 ages. It is actually the titular object of the manga!

[cyan scarab]

Greenbull is Immune to fire.

[crystal minnow]

yah but i say he is immune because someone wished up the fruit that way

[cyan scarab]

No? I feel like I remember it happening

Same way the Slaves wished for Nika no?

[crystal minnow]

it’s explaining the effect first and the cause after. Its what old stories do

[cyan scarab]

It’s entirely possible the WG fount the Forest Fruit and gave it to the upcoming Admiral Position.

[crystal minnow]

I think imu

is the forest god

[cyan scarab]

How?

The one who lives deep in the Red Line?

[crystal minnow]

well he likes butterflies and shi which is a rlly weird detail

[haughty cloud]

The one asking at first you said they are not go to moon

[raw gust]

I think the forest god is a personification of the adam tree, or the sabaody tree. And that's the source of the devil fruits. Hence why it is so central in the mural and why it "sent forth demons" aka devil fruits.

[crystal minnow]

i dont think sum god was an original god

thats why hes a fruit

[old mirage]

I'm not sure if all these gods are really individual people to begin with

[crystal minnow]

i dont think gods die

unless killed maybe

YAH i think god of the earth was killed by Imu and thats why imu has blackbeards wanted poster

he has the fruit of that god

[raw gust]

do you want to elaborate?

[cyan scarab]

The earth? While also being the Sea mentioned

Bro 😭

Damn that sent hella late

[old mirage]

I think the wrath of the sea god could just be a metaphor for the sea level rising, rather than some dude that was enraged

[raw gust]

Oh yeah, absolutely!

Like i said with the forest god

[bronze zealot]

Sorry if this is a dumb question but is this Imu or another entity?

[crystal minnow]

I personally think all gods are real except the sun god

[old mirage]

so the god of the land and forest would be other concepts, rather than individuals

[raw gust]

I think, following my theory, that it is blackbeard in the upcoming war

[raw gust]

yuh

[crystal minnow]

well no the pictures as we know represent the past wars

[old mirage]

nika was called the sun god because he fought for people's freedom, and conceptually freedom = the sun

[bronze zealot]

Could be. Maybe Blackbeard will absorb Imu!

[crystal minnow]

it can still be blackbeard kinda since he has the fruit

but its like luffy

not the exact same person

[raw gust]

are we sure? damn. they seemed so uncertain about it

[cyan scarab]

I don’t think Gods are real in one piece, that’s why Oda showed aliens I feel lol.

But seriously a common theme prevelant in One Piece is the fact that Gods are just Humans with Unlimited power due to their access to their desire coming True.

[crystal minnow]

it’s why the first world and second world say they will never meet again

third is in the future

so they will

[raw gust]

well, does that mean that the mural has to be the past?

[crystal minnow]

yes

[cyan scarab]

Enel believed himself a god, quite conveniently in the Arc where Nolan had to convince the Shandorians that gods aren’t real, and are just those placed on a Higher Standard than the common folk.

Go reread skypiea

[crystal minnow]

the reason we know it is is because the third sounds hopeful

it was most likely made by a sun god believer

[raw gust]

But it also says that he will bring the worlds end

[tranquil hawk]

My opinion is that there were 3 Nikas. One for each age.

I also think shanks was the one who visited the Gorosei. Shamrock did say that Shanks did go back to Mary Geoise once. I think that was the instance of Shanks talking with the Gorosei about "a certain pirate"

[raw gust]

And we KNOW that a war such as the one one the mural is coming

[crystal minnow]

yes but it sounds like a better way

then the first two

[fervent ridge]

the third act is supposed to be the present/future
as saul said/ prophecy

[crystal minnow]

it also might not mean literal destruction in the third one

just the first two

[old mirage]

I really don't think that the time Shamrock talked about of Shanks coming back happened as recently as during the reverie

[raw gust]

But there is nothing in the leftmost battle that says that it has to end badly

[crystal minnow]

yuh

[fervent ridge]

I think shanks for sure came back a few times at least.
and still have some favors with the CD, and at some point could've came back for good
but he's a good guy (hope) that he decided he didn't want to stay afterall

[cyan scarab]

Nolan should be proof enough that Gods Aren’t Real.

Devilfruits give Men access to their unlimited desire, with Haki transcending all. An Ultimate combination of the two would rule the world.

Henceforth being known as a “God”

[fervent ridge]

every "god" we ever saw in one piece were either animals or just humans pretending to be one

[crystal minnow]

hmmmmm

[fervent ridge]

even the sun god

[cyan scarab]

Exactly

[crystal minnow]

i see wym but that kinda falls flat

[cyan scarab]

Even Luffy doesn’t want to be a hero, you think he wants to be a god? And he’s right.

He isn’t a god, But the embodiment, the Desire of Freedom and Liberation

He is What his Devilfruit is, that’s why it chose him on that Island.

[crystal minnow]

if none of the gods are real then none of it makes sense at all

[fervent ridge]

he is seen as one by many
he will be seen as god by many, already are
but yes
luffy is luffy, that's what makes him great. he just wanna do what he wanna do
"omg luffy destroyed ennies lobby and declare war to government"
luffy: "I just came to grab my friend back"

[cyan scarab]

The same reason the Buddha convincingly rose to the Top of the World Government, Sengoku was never truly a bad man at heart, just like his brother Garp.

But they walked the path of slavery in the hands of the Celestial Dragons in order to keep those weaker than them Safe.

If this isn’t it than I don’t know what.

[haughty cloud]

Maybe the god they describe is the disaster happened

[cyan scarab]

Oda is an amazing Writer

[haughty cloud]

The savior is a god to them too

[fervent ridge]

I believe the propechies will come true
but in typical one piece fashion
luffy and gang will make it more heartfelt and whimsical
and the propagandist and crowds will spread the tale more grandly and generally

[crystal minnow]

If none of the gods are real then first world and second word dont make sense

[fervent ridge]

there is always nuance to what actually happened and what's told

in this world of one piece

[tranquil hawk]

Why do you say that?

[crystal minnow]

I only think sun god was wishesd up

wished

[haughty cloud]

Its kinda epic the first chapter called romance dawn too

[dusky acorn]

As I was expecting, the precedent for characters in-story mistaking Shamrock for Shanks is finally here.

This means Kid could have feasibly made the same misjudgement about the two. This furthers my theory of Shamrock having wronged Kid in the past, and this being the reason Kid originally targetted and wants an audience specifically with Shanks, (potentially even moreso than the man who took his arm.)

[crystal minnow]

hmm? Did kid not like shanks before ben took his arm?

[haughty cloud]

Is kid even alive now?

[crystal minnow]

AHHH

[cyan scarab]

But how? All devil fruits are wished up through Desire. You don’t think the top figures of the Main Religion in One Piece would be desired up into fruit form?

[crystal minnow]

I mean ben

[cyan scarab]

Go read egghead, Egghead states that Devilfruits are the result of Men’s Desire.

[crystal minnow]

only one said to be wished during first world was sun god

[cyan scarab]

Forest god came in the Second World however

[dusky acorn]

It's implied that way, as Kid had to have targetted the Red Hair pirates to lose that arm in the first place. The lost arm was not the beginning of Kid's ambition of wanting to see and fight Shanks

[haughty cloud]

I dont get how one with wish to be a candle or a poison

[cyan scarab]

Also the Earth god is the First world, The Sun came next, maybe the Forest and Rain came after.

[crystal minnow]

Hmmm yeah but imu has been alive for a while

[cyan scarab]

Imu is the Sea Beast

[crystal minnow]

mmm I just dont see how that could make sense since we seee somb with a crown in the second world

and in blacl

black

[old mirage]

but with shamrock being a god knight, where would kid even have to go to run into him?

[cyan scarab]

It could have been anyone for all we know, Loki wears the Same crown, it’s just a common crown for Rulers, look at Neptunes Crown.

Okay maybe not neptunes lol

But Loki’s is nearly much the same

[crystal minnow]

Hmmmm ehhhhh i dont think it’d just be anyone

[cyan scarab]

Could be the Prince of elbaph of that time.

[undone holly]

do you guys heard about a theory that BB wanted Hancok fruit so he could use the Serpent of Hell? ppl says that the stoned serpent we have around the world is the real Serpent of Hell, so Hancok fruit could turned the serpent back alive again

[crystal minnow]

since its everybody going to that one person

[cyan scarab]

I don’t think I would mind this but it needs more support.

[slow ravine]

idk about that cause didnt hancock say that even if her power was taken the people shes petrified cant be undone by someone other than the person that petrified them

[crystal minnow]

yeah

[cyan scarab]

We still don’t know what’s up with Teach but Oda did let us know he doesn’t have the Cerberus fruit.

[crystal minnow]

but bb didnt know that at first yah?

[cyan scarab]

That Girls a Liar 🎵

[crystal minnow]

teach is def earth god

[undone holly]

so that could explain why he let her go? and not just because of Dark Ray?

[slow ravine]

i think it was definitely a mix of him realizing that getting her fruit would be more trouble than expected due to Shawk and Rayleigh showing up and also probably wanted her fruit due to it being implied to take effect from any strong emotion (fear) and not just love. Do we know who in BB's crew doesnt have a df yet?

[crystal minnow]

second world got destroyed by god of the sea yah?

[slow ravine]

also seperate, i think BB is gonna try to get moria back and use his power to put garps shadow in xebecs corpse

[haughty cloud]

What will happen if law died and he change the body of others. They stuck there now?

[slow ravine]

with law it would probably revert because his powers can be reverted through strong haki

[cyan scarab]

Eh I thought that too but I’m not sure, although Whitebeard was seen as a Yonko and fighting against the World Government so it would make sense they wouldn’t be able to just Outright take it from him.

However I do like this now. Whitebeard ruled over the Earth as a bringer of chaos, however he was a peaceful and loving man. He cared for his family, the same way Mother Earth would her Children.

He even Approved of Luffy in Marineford. However he was killed by his own “Son” a traitor of the D clan.

If the Yami Yami has the power to absorb devilfruit powers, what if this is the hidden ability of the Fruit, akin to the Ope Ope granting Immortality.

Blackbeard also wants to Rule Over the World now. Taking the “Earth” for himself.

However the world government has even less of a chance at getting the Gura Gura no mi, considering blackbeard quite literally absorbed the fruit power of Whitebeard.

[haughty cloud]

Im curious how the elders is like immortal but died when imu get angry

[crystal minnow]

huh

what does whitebeard have to do with this

[cyan scarab]

He had the Gura Gura before reach.

Songs were sung about him, he was treated like a “God” in the one piece world no?

[crystal minnow]

I don’t think gura gura has any significance in this icl

[cyan scarab]

Then how could teach be the earth god lmfao

It’s the fruit that shakes the Earth itself.

[crystal minnow]

well i dont think we actually know what the dark dark fruit is

[cyan scarab]

That’s the Yami tho

[crystal minnow]

so the wishes are from the sun yah?

[cyan scarab]

The yami could be the way Teach is able to use two fruits at the moment.

[cyan scarab]

Wait what?

[crystal minnow]

what the people are holding has to deal with the sun right?

[cyan scarab]

What does that have to do with the earth god? It could be the power they harness from the mother flame.

[crystal minnow]

because it blanketed everything in darkness

if its holding the sun the origin of the devil fruits power

it makes sense why Blackbeard can cancel devil fruits yah?

[toxic needle]

so his devil fruit cannot be cerebrus now given the last chapter

[cyan scarab]

Hmm maybe, but if the Sun god was created in the Desires of a devil fruit, the original user of the Earth God fruit could have desired it in the same way from the Mother Flame.

[crystal minnow]

huh? I dont think he wanted that fruit

i dont think people knew it was gonna become a devil fruit

since it looks like the first wish the slaves made

[old pelican]

I think the last Poseidon Princess went to war with the CD after Joyboys death that could be what it means

[crystal minnow]

hmmm I just thought it meant she cursed the sea

[dusky acorn]

Remember Kuma's flashback, where Shamrock's father was in the West Blue? It seems these holy knights don't have to stay stationed in the holy land all the time, they can still go whereever they please or think they have business in, besides their home.

The Kid Pirates grew up on an unaffiliated island that was riddled with violence. Shamrock right now, happens to have business on an unaffiliated island as well, Elbaph. It's possible Kid could have seen this brother who he mistook for the infamous pirate Shanks, down in the South Blue.

(Sorry for the late reply btw, I randomly get clients.)

[crisp basin]

So it says that the “enslaved reached for the forbidden star” and that they beckoned the sun god. Devil fruits come from the people, and are dreamt to reality by the people. It seems like the slaves dreamt for a savior and that created the Nika Nika fruit

[crystal minnow]

after people “ascended to divinity” gained devil fruits

[crystal minnow]

yea ibseed

[crisp basin]

It then seems like the earth god in retaliation, dreamt of a fruit that would defeat the “Sun God” Nika and most likely that was the Yami Yami fruit

[crystal minnow]

indeed

[crystal minnow]

hmmmmmmm it says it as if the earth god had alr existsed tho

[crisp basin]

So the Yami Yami can cancel other fruits and that’s also why the world went into darkness

so maybe the earth god wasn’t from a devil fruit

possible it could have been a false god

[crystal minnow]

yah im thinking only sun god is a false god

[left prism]

wanted to let you know i already received the ping a couple days ago but haven't gotten a chance to read yet

[crisp basin]

I think all of the “gods” in the mural are false gods

either made to seem like gods bc of devil fruits or try to make themselves seem like they are, like the celestial dragons

[crystal minnow]

hmmmm

hmmm

[worn kiln]

"Those of the half crescent and Full Moons" is that referring to the lunarians somehow? By second world ending, would that have been the moon?

[crisp basin]

half crescent is D

[old mirage]

Oda basically confirmed that Beckman cut Kid's arm though, in the volume 107 SBS
Q: "So... does this mean that it was Beckman who took Kid's arm?"
Oda: "Yes, it seems like it!"

[crisp basin]

that’s what I’m thinking

[dusky acorn]

No worries, I know it's an incredibly long read. Even Adam doesn't want to read the theory whatsoever. I understand if some are tired of my Kid agenda by now, no matter how much analysis or evidence I have to back it up

[crystal minnow]

wait this is..

peak

[crisp basin]

🙂‍↕️

I was thinking of Blackbeard

When he was a kid

When I saw the line about crescent moon

There’s a pic of Blackbeard when he was a child, crying under a crescent moon

and that makes sense if D is the crescent moon, as they say they dream

[crystal minnow]

hmmm actually idk it could just mean dreamer because then who would be the people of the moon

[crisp basin]

Enels people

[dusky acorn]

Yes, I understand that. But has Kid or Killer ever mentioned Benn Beckman? If they had the option to choose, it's very likely and totally implicated that they still favour the ability to confront Shanks, rather than Beckman.
Just like how Law had an underlying quarrel behind targetting Kaido, I believe Kid does with his own original emperor target as well.

I'm simply trying to push for more deep and higher quality story-telling here.

[crisp basin]

They were originally from the moon

[crystal minnow]

Hmm what if peple of the moon are actually on the moon celestials. And half moon are people in the earth because they see crescents?

idk

that was yap from me fr

[crisp basin]

The Bilkans, Shandians, and Skypeians were all from the moon originally

[mighty moon]

The half moon is the D clan

[crisp basin]

Yeah i know

[worn kiln]

That makes sense, i remember that one of blackbeard's crewmate mentioned he was from a special lineage when talking to the elder

[crystal minnow]

i jsut think third world is everything coming together and that all gods are here

[crisp basin]

Third world for sure is the next coming of Nika and the big fight that’s to come

First and second worlds show what happened in the past destructions of the world

[crystal minnow]

nah imu is def forest god

[crisp basin]

I don’t think so

[crystal minnow]

we literally see a butterflie

[outer moth]

Theory Piece gang won’t sleep for months now

[crystal minnow]

and it changes to imu

over and over

[crisp basin]

That might not mean anything

Maybe they just like butterflies

[crystal minnow]

ehh oda wouldnt show it two times over

[crisp basin]

“The god of the forest wove their magic, nurturing their devils” - ig this could refer to either Imu and creating devil fruits from the mother flame

Someone said that they think the forest god could refer to the Adam tree and that the fruits were created from it

[fluid gust]

What if...

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=921481103527478&set=a.386608173681443

[crystal minnow]

i also found sum kinda interesting

[narrow herald]

Knowing Luffy, it could be he either wants to be friends with everyone in the world, or host a banquet with everyone in the world

[crystal minnow]

in hawaii imu means an underground oven in which meat and vegetables are cooked, traditionally by means of heated stones covered with vegetation.

might mean nothing tho

[crystal minnow]

yahhhhhhhhhh

[cyan scarab]

Imu backwards is Umi, or the Umibozu a Giant Sea beast.

Look familiar?

[worn kiln]

Maybe the first world was the smaller sized earth but apocalypse event happened so people moved to the moon (second world), but another apocalypse event happened in which the first world combined with something while people were on moon and resulted into the new bigger world now, then people moved to the third world currently? Basing this on a old theory people mentioned that the planet size of one piece world is bigger than our earth?

[crystal minnow]

well imu is giant

and in the sea

so

[crystal minnow]

but i dont think that means sea god

[cyan scarab]

It’s not god, it’s Beast.

[crystal minnow]

oh then

yah ok

[cyan scarab]

Wait no it is god

But it’s still in the Sense of one piece gods, just a Tyrant granted their ultimate desire

Or someone who was praised above all else, Like Imu Nerona, The leader of the 20 Kings who now sits atop the throne no?

[crystal minnow]

also i dont like this theory

has oda ever done backward names like that?

[cyan scarab]

The Earth, Sea, and Forest god are different. And with the Forest God only having the significance of sending “Demons” aka spreading the Unholy nature of their fruit, they wouldn’t encounter the Sun god the same way the Earth, Hell Serpent, and Sea fought the Sun

[crisp basin]

The original Skypeians, Shandorians, and Bilkans all originally came from the moon, then moved to earth because they ran out of resources. I’m not sure if they came from the earth before that and then went back. But I think the different worlds refer to the periods when Nika was alive, and that’s why they refer to him as the god of destruction in elbaph

[cyan scarab]

Almost every character in One Piece is based off of someone, or something’s name?

[crisp basin]

And I think the destruction of the worlds refers more to the sea levels rising and the death of so many

[cyan scarab]

Sometimes the exact same, Sometimes kind of different but with the same elements.

[crystal minnow]

igggg still hes never done anything backwards

[cyan scarab]

Does that matter? Imu backwards to Umi is literally perfect for Oda for a God of the Sea?

Do these not look the same at all?

[crystal minnow]

it does but almost nothing outside of that even hints

at sea

or water

[cyan scarab]

With this being his true form in the sea

He’s literally in Water.

A Sea God

it’s right there dude

[crystal minnow]

he’s in a silhouette tho

[cyan scarab]

This is his Full Silhouette.

Oda just gave it too us, while not revealing his full form. Crazy how Oda reveals two Shadowed characters but hides like 30 more???

[zinc lotus]

from what ripley says about the mural, my guess is a young joyboy drew it onto the tree.

[crystal minnow]

we see nika tho

i dont think first world talked abt sea god

[frail rose]

earth god - imu
sun god - luffy
forest god - shirahoshi
rain god - vivi
am i smokin crack?

[crystal minnow]

yes but i see why people say imu is earth god

i don’t think he is tho

[crystal minnow]

it’s impossible for that to even be the sea god

if you think Imu is sea god he HAS to be on the right

[crisp basin]

Sea god I think may be Shirahoshi

[crystal minnow]

yah

[crisp basin]

for obvious reasons

[keen trout]

@frail rose yes

[crystal minnow]

i dont think imu was alive before void century

would be usless to mention two different gods

eh

[dusk viper]

Hey who deleted their huge paragraph I was reading that

[crisp basin]

yeah me too

[undone holly]

my idea is that Lunarians were created by Nika in the first World... he imagined wings in ppl so they could fly and escape the God of Land...

[crystal minnow]

hmm maybe

imu isn’t anything?

[flint dirge]

I think the first world is just a modern civilatizion that began to harness the inside of the earth for power and lunarians came from inside the earth

[crystal minnow]

Maybe he’s just a devil

like the rest

A demon

lol I thought of sum funny what if the god of the forest is just imus butterfly 😭

but nah imu can only be thr god of the forest if im being fr

cant be sea

cuz sea is mad

at world 2

[hidden ridge]

World One: The Age of Nika (The First World)

The world is in turmoil, driven by greed and conflict. The Earth burns in endless flames, representing the chaos and destruction brought about by human desires. People live in darkness, enslaved by oppressive rulers who benefit from their suffering.

Rise of Nika: Amid this chaos, the Sun God Nika is born. Nika’s arrival symbolizes hope and freedom. The enslaved, driven by their desire for liberation, offer their prayers, invoking his power. Nika is the embodiment of freedom and joy a force that promises to end the reign of tyranny and oppression.

The God of the Land, a force of destruction and oppression, reacts violently to Nika’s rise. This being, likely representing the forces of the old world tyrants and corrupt rulers lashes out at Nika’s light, seeking to maintain control and order through destruction.

The serpent of fire (likely a symbol of overwhelming destruction) is unleashed, plunging the world into ruin. The Sun God’s light is extinguished, and the forces of tyranny crush any hope of freedom. Darkness falls, and death reigns as the enslaved who had reached for Nika's light are devastated.

Despite Nika's initial rise, his mission to liberate the world fails. The promise of freedom and joy is never fulfilled, and the world is left in ashes. The First Greater Cleansing occurs as history is erased and the remnants of life are scattered. A pair from each race is saved and taken forward into the next world, marking the end of the First World.

I also think the first world was completely destroyed (perhaps the moon) and they came to the new planet, perhaps using some sort of ship like Noah's arc)

Might explain why it's saying in the first world, god of land

And in the second god of the sea because first being the moon and second can mean the ruler of earth (current planet)