#manga-theories

1 messages · Page 25 of 1

toxic valley
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Do anyone have any idea what will happen with usopp

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He is totally NPC for now

eager frost
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most ppl are hoping he will get a power boost in Elbaf. i personally would like to see him get a df infused weapon

deft root
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We kinda Saw a glimpe of elbaf in the whole cake island, from big moms orgin story

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I hope they go to pirate island, and confront black beard, luffy needs to smack that guy already, because Imu's gunna be the most powerful villian of the entire One piece story

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but if they do go to elbaf, i hope Zoro learns that move from the giants conquest of the sea

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that is a good arguement, it is very possible what if big mom used her soul - soul fruit to give the lava life then she would become immune to getting burned. but then again, from where they landed, the lava channeled out to the sea, so if the lava pool she was in pushed her out to sea then she forsure had to have perished

hearty wind
deft root
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yeaH, THATS gunna be super crazy how their gunna implement that, Im sure Imu is going to be the very last person to fight, and forsure Luffys Dad, Dragon is either gunna attempt fighting him first or assist Luffy at the end

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I really want to know what happend to SAbo

hearty wind
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Sabo won’t die yet

deft root
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I put my bets on Kobe becoming the next fleet admiral at the end of one piece when the world government is reestablished or destroyed

hearty wind
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I have no doubt Koby will replace Garp

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Do you think Garp is dead?

eager frost
deft root
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hmmm i see him retiring honestly, I think he was pulled out of the military or was already retired when they promoted him to an admiral in the Dressrosa Arc

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Just think about it, Both Luffy and Kobe Started off from the beginning, One wanted to be King of the pirates, and the other wanted to be Admiral, you might be right, but
ay what are your thoughts on Luffys dream shown at the end of the Wano Arc

hearty wind
eager frost
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still don't have enough info to pinpoint to what it is but some of them can be ruled out

deft root
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No Garp can't be dead, if anything he's gunna be held hostage, and im sure that could be possible a reason used to get luffy and strawhats to push towards that final confrontation with the blackbeard pirates

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he doesn't have a devil fruit, so its not like blackbeard has to kill him right away, but does blackbeard know that garp is luffys grandpa?

eager frost
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also he could kill garp and still use him to lure Luffy via Devon DF BBZehahaha as a matter of fact it would be even better since it will eliminate the chance of garp joining the fight if he got free.

kind cipher
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BB also has Gecko Moria, so they might make a Garp zombie

untold lance
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we dont know for sure but gecko moria was probably freed by koby during garp's raid

hearty wind
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Moria isn’t dead yet

cyan valley
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yea make all the kumas die

dusky inlet
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Haki has hax negation

lilac zodiac
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question dont know if its been answered or not . What if they find a way to heal kuma . Could Bonney using her fruit make him re-live his life ?

dull blaze
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the man with the burn mark, i think he is the reason behind reverse mountain and he is an ally of imu

half burrow
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i think ive got an interesting little theory give it a read. So in chapter 306 we were introduced to the "davy back fight" where pirates bet their own crewmembers in eachothers pirate groups. The place where the davy back fight was invented was the pirate paradise island also known as hachinosu where rocks formed his crew. So what im suggesting is that the reason so many emperors including whitebeard, kaido and bigmom was on rocks crew was simply because they lost in a davy back fight

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i came up with this idea simply because i couldt imagine why white beard would join rocks crew with such bloodthirsty and cold pirates in contrast to whitebeards family loving personality

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what do you guys think?

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another interesting detail is that hachinosu might be the back of whatever or whoever davy jones is

cursive shoal
glad scarab
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Is it a fact that Saturns real Body is still inside the ship? So thats why he is regenerating?

untold lance
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I guess thats a possibility but i dont think we've seen anything that confirms that. My impression is that his spider body is a trainsformed version of his real body

pure raven
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How many islands, and races throught the 800 years do you think have been wiped out from history

untold lance
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I was thinking maybe we'll see a few other races CD attempted to wipe out in the last few arcs here. Maybe with each of the gorosei having had a special interest/hand in each race's fate. With BB being one of them, explaining his special/weird body comments

carmine moon
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Could it be that the special ability of Buccaneer's is some sort of fusion? Buccaneers being able to unite their souls together into one body, which causes that body to expand depending on how many people were involved. This is then passed down with generations. Kuma might be dead, but his body still contains other souls with willpower. This would also explain Blackbeard's case, him being a buccaneer and being "multiple persons", allowing to eat multiple DF. Whatever it is, I feel like it has to do something with souls. Even Vegapunk mentioned souls earlier. And look at Brook, isn't he just alive with his soul? I wonder if Oda is setting up this play where everyone needs to literally unite as one PIECE, or rather one person, to defeat the big bad.

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Heck, maybe Brook might be the key to all this. Kuma's body has multiple souls trapped in it, but Brook can use his soul form to communicate with them

tidal solar
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Spoiler For Monsters
Mercies 103: Dragon Damnation
Zoro's attack vs King
Ryuma The King,
This was a set up by Oda!
(The new monsters serie)

full glacier
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If all zoan fruit have 3 base transformations and Choppers rumble ball gives you more for a short amount of time then Luffy might unlock a new transformation/gear 6 after eating one?

pure raven
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my theiore is that osama is going to come back to life and recreate 9/11 but with egghead

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💪

copper acorn
iron zephyr
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Luffys dream is that he wants to be come a space pirate and travel the sea of stars. Do you notice how Luffy is looking up at the sky, how the ship is looking to the sky and than the sunny reaction is "?!". I think his dream affects the thousands sunnys fate. I also think Luffy must be pirate king because that means his journey here is finished and he can move onto the next journey. This dream embodies both his vision of being truly free, and unlimited adventures.

Anyways, the reactions all fit especially the sunny which I think had the most important reaction and the view the ship is looking
Everyones dreams will have new goals. Nami navigating the stars, Chopper finding a cure to heal all illnesses in the galaxy, Sanji finding new in foods to cook and so forth.

Web_capture_21-1-2024_125549_www.reddit.com.jpeg
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just a thought, but soge in norwiegian means story. So usopp is the storyking who wrote the story of the One Piece that we're currently reading.

pure raven
iron zephyr
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you're foolish

pure raven
iron zephyr
carmine moon
manic reef
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it’s more likely luffys dream is something childish like wanting to throw a party with everyone on earth and in order to do that he has to destroy the red line once he becomes the pirate king uniting west, east, south, and north blue creating the all blue.

iron zephyr
manic reef
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everyone’s reactions support this too. jimbei being on edge is because he’s a fish man and they’re still on bad terms with humans. chopper and brook are laughing. nami zoro ussop are all more concerned because it means they would have to be with a bunch of crazy people from their past

iron zephyr
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The sunny wouldn't care about that imo but

manic reef
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i think the sunny’s reaction is more of a gag than something to be looked super deep into

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like it’s a dream so outlandish that even the ship reacted

iron zephyr
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Nah we know the sunnys reaction matters as it's part of the crew so I think luffys dream affects the sunny too.

carmine moon
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whatever it is, it probably involves everyone in the world, because he needs to be the pirate king first. Maybe he wants everyone to be a pirate? A friend? Maybe everyone joins his crew?

iron zephyr
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The thing once kuffys adventure is done here, he doesn't want to sit around. Thiers a very high chance he really wants to travel through the stars and experience true freedom.

manic reef
carmine moon
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wanting everyone to join his crew would be funny, considering that the whole series hes been trying to recruit all kinds of random people

iron zephyr
manic reef
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once his journey is done it’s when he’s become the pirate king. he’s attained the highest title on the planet. plus space pirates have already been touched on with the enel cover story and that wasn’t incredibly important to the story so it would be out of place for oda to bring in this entirely new concept right at the end that luffy has never showed much interest in

iron zephyr
# manic reef once his journey is done it’s when he’s become the pirate king. he’s attained th...

Once he becomes pirate king it means his real journey begins. Rogers failed at uniting the world, bring freedom to everyone, having a party where everyone is invited all these smaller significant events Luffybwill accomplish allowing him to move on the sea of stars and Rogers was to early because he rushed without doing all side quests. He knew he fucked up its like the saying.

"We rubber plants form the connecting link between the vegetable kingdom and the decorations of a Waldorf-Astoria scene in a Third Avenue theatre"

Which Luffy will end up doing what Rogers failed to do and thats Uniting the world and giving everyone freedom.

carmine moon
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people have been theorizing about SH's visiting the Moon, something about the Adam tree being located at Elbaf and being so long that it could be used to reach Moon. Would be funny but its quite doubtful

cursive shoal
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The space dream is a very real possibility for luffy who is very child like

carmine moon
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could be more fitting if he wants to go the Sun, considering his DF and all and the fact that it would sound like a dumb idea lol

cursive shoal
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Well going to the sun is impossible

carmine moon
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thats what the crew said as well

cursive shoal
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And to go to the sun you’d still have to go to space

carmine moon
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I don't buy the whole thing but I can see Oda doing a gag at some point where Luffy gets literally sent to the Sun by an enemy, and then gear 5 shenanigans and he toon forces back to earth

cursive shoal
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Well science/physics still applies to the OP world so he would die if he went to the sun 💀

carmine moon
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cartoon science

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after gear 5 Oda can just do whatever lol

unique token
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Shaka/satellite 01, isn't dead.

unique token
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I just rewatched the Opening like 16 times and realised it says "we are all in the middle of an adventure"

cobalt niche
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ok

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so i have a funny lil theory thats sort of an observation abt the series

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you know how they say that edward weevils mother was on the rocks pirate crew right, well in orochis backstory, korozumi higurashi displays the powers of the clone clone fruit and swaps through a roster of three faces, one of them being her own

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well she also swaps to shikis face and that of a random woman, however one key feature of that woman was the blonde hair she possessed, and as shiki was the other person its plausible to concieve that this woman was also on the rocks's crew

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so it could be that this is an image of the mother of edward weevil in her prime as they share the same hair and they both seem to be members of the rocks pirates as far as i can gather

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the reason that this may be important is that it may supply a connection between wano, or more specifically the korozumi clan, and the ex-rocks pirates and may be why kaido didnt just end orochi or why he even let orochi use him as a bodyguard esque figure

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idk tho, and as you may be able to tell i am not caught up so hey its just a theory

teal wyvern
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Yo guys do you think that after the fight when the straw hats defeat Saturn and after their departure to (elbaf perhaps) then Caterina Devon and Laffite are gonna pull up on the scene and get the body of Saturn so BB can have his final third devil fruit

sand mortar
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But I doubt it, because the marines or maybe even The World Government would jump in to collect Saturns Body.

teal wyvern
faint peak
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What if Loki from Elbaf is a Holy Knight?

sand mortar
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Besides, Saturn having that power from race alone, imagine what a Devil Fruit amped Devil race would be?

topaz jay
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A) Holy knights are all celestial dragons, and no giant is a celestial dragon
B) Loki was willing and ready to ally himself with Big Mom, which absolutely no government agent would do, especially not a celestial dragon dedicated to the gorosei like the Holy knights
C) Elbaf is the world's strongest nation, so strong that the world government backed down and apologized when Elbaf threatened war after the government tried to kill giant pirates

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D) The world government and Big Mom both desperately wanted to make an alliance with Loki to be on Elbaf's good side. If Loki was already a loyal dog of the government, why the f_ would they care about bringing Elbaf into the fold?

faint peak
topaz jolt
faint peak
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I think Big Mom will come back in Elbaf, because of her connection to Loki.

hidden ridge
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Guys do u think it was actually shanks who came to meet the 5 elders, if so how can he just casually go there.. like he is a pirate afterall it's not possible that he can just park his ship outside the holyland right...

Does shanks have the same power as the elders

untold lance
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hes an emperor and known for being reasonable. Theyd much prefer to resolve disputes with a conversation than a battle. Especially when, at the time, the warlords system was under pressure from luffy. They emphasized multiple times that they consider the balance between the marines, warlords, and emperors to be very important for the stability of the world (and their rule over it)

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I am unconvinced by ideas that shanks might be secretly CD aligned primarily because he grew up on roger's ship. It's not clear when he would have been converted to WG/CD line of thinking. Roger was basically his father. Also it makes no sense for shanks to steal the gum gum fruit from who's who if he's secretly on the government's side.

topaz jay
untold lance
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yeah but since being a baby he was raised by roger, not celestials

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based on how doffy was treated i doubt they view him as a wayward child ready to be re-accepted into their ranks

cursive shoal
balmy sleet
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Where do we think Luffy disappeared to? My bet is the ancient robot, I see no other way the robot becomes involved currently, though Oda may throw a plot twist in there.

ember sorrel
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Straw Hat Fleet will show up in 3 chapters

spring island
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Spoilers tomorrow?

drowsy cosmos
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I realized something Dragon and Akainu are both 55. Dragon was a navy solider its very likely they were comrades but an event changed everything. An event had to happen between 32 and 25 years ago that fundamentally changed Dragon. 32 years ago Akainu joins the Marines. 25 years ago Dragon makes the Freedom Fighters. The only major incident happened a year prior is Roger becoming Pirate King. One thing that could be explain it Dragon was a hostage while Roger was on Laugh Tale and learning the truth of the world government changed him though it doesn't fit properly. However if Dragon and Akainu were once comrades it makes nice contrast how they turned out one being absolute justice abiding the world government and one who rebels looking to overthrow the government

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Anyone else have any other thoughts what could've occurred 32-25 years ago that could cause such a shift in character shift? There needs to be a catalyst that makes such a drastic shift. Dragon was 15 when God Valley happened so I doubt that's the cause

untold lance
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i thought dragon founded the revos in response to ohara? but he would have left the marines before that i think?

drowsy cosmos
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Freedom fighters happened 25 years ago. Ohara happened 22 years ago

untold lance
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i think they definitely have a history, maybe friends or rivals. akainu seems to especially hate him

drowsy cosmos
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Especially everyone was saying Straw Hat at Marineford. Akainu kept saying Dragon's son

untold lance
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yeah exactly, it seemed personal. No one told him to go after dragon's son as far as we know. He's pursuing dragon's basically unconscious son while blackbeard tears down marineford in the background

drowsy cosmos
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That too didn't make sense. If Akainu didn't have grudge he'd definitely want to kill Blackbeard

warped stump
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Afterall, you Buccaneers...
were the group of people possessing the strongest ability to hear and emit the voice of all things ("waves") waves") and are the "fathers" who created the ancient automatas and imbued them with the ability.

robust salmon
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what y'all think will happen to the seraphims? like it seems the crew is just gonna dip with out them, cant vegapunk try to over write them, he seems like a terrible engineer for not having a fail safe 🤣

untold lance
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Saturn threatened him saying any sort of trickery like that would be detected by saturn, who is also a man of science. Open question whether or not that threat was really true. Saturn not knowing about the altered self-destruct suggests maybe VP could have snuck a failsafe in there without him noticing. But at least the threat was made so it is more reasonable that VP would beleive he couldnt get away with that

hollow dock
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U guys think will kizaru betray wg

eternal zealot
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Ussop will sacrifice his life for luffy and law will sacrifice his life to heal luffy from some sort of battle and give him eternal life

robust salmon
floral valve
robust salmon
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I don’t wanna ruin the surprise 😉

floral valve
robust salmon
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It was such a long time ago. All I remember me getting with this really cute girl, I think her name was Poseidon or something 🤔🤔

floral valve
robust salmon
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Yes

floral valve
# robust salmon Yes

Ok Nika I have a very, very, very important question.
If you inhale a very large amount of air and fart, could you move Zunesha with it?JuPeter 330 CharlossDurr

ivory urchin
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Not my theory, but I liked it and had to share

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Random theory:

We will not be seeing Luffy in the spot light for the rest of 2024. Similar to Saobody, but instead of following Luffy through Marineford, we will follow the rest of the crew.

[Theory Starts]

Kizaru was about to flip in chapter 1103, and was secretly feeding Luffy, until he disappeared, which Kizaru saw as a sign to stick with Saturn.

What happened is, Oda is going to show that Auger can warp anywhere. Lafete and Devon took a ship to Egghead, so Teach and Auger could go there after Winner Island and waited for Luffy to exhaust himself of Gear 5. Once he was, Auger warped to Luffy, and took him back to Blackbeard, who used his fruit to disable Luffy's fruit.

Without Luffy, the crew will have to flee Egghead, and Kuma will sacrifice himself by awakening his fruit, and sending the Sunny and everyone on it to Elbaf. Elbaf will center around Usopp, claiming to be a temporary captain in Luffy's absence (despite everyone defaulting to Zoro). The arc will revolve around Usopp proving he can be "Captain Usopp", and end with them meeting up with Vivi and Morgans and learning that Morgan pinned the Egghead Incident on Luffy, and Black Beard is using Garp and Luffy to bargain for Hachinosu to become sanctioned by the World Government.

Then the next arc will be the Straw Hats and the Giants of Elbaf (lead by Usopp) raiding Hachinosu to save Luffy.

sullen crypt
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Jeez bro tipping a book

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I am not reading that

hardy trench
eager frost
ember sorrel
onyx saddle
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Is there any chance that ViVi never existed and that she is actually Lilly all along. And the scene where Imu cuts up her picture is her saying goodbye to that persona. I don’t recall if we’ve ever seen/heard of someone seeing them both at the same time. It would allow Imu to have a persona that she could go out to her country since everyone would know her as vivi

unique token
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What

scarlet vapor
# onyx saddle Is there any chance that ViVi never existed and that she is actually Lilly all a...

You mean that Nefertari Vivi never existed and she was Nefertari D. Lili all along?
Not only that but Lili is also just a persona created by Imu which means Imu, Lili and Vivi are all the same person?

Imu - The hidden ruler of the World Government which existance is not known to the world
Lili - Queen of Arabasta Kingdom during the Void Cerntury
Vivi - Current Princess of Arabasta

We have seen Vivi as a child.
How is it possible for any of these two characters to be seen at the same time?
In chapter 1085, Cobra saw Imu in the Throne Room and in same chapter Vivi was seen at another room after being captured by CP0.
Are you implying that Imu has the ability to shapeshift so that's why Cobra didn't recognize his own daughter and also has the ability to be at two different place at the same time?

Just like how they are those who truly believed that Zoro was the one who will defeat Kaido even after Luffy unlocked Gear 5th, I'm not sure if you're trolling or being serious.

onyx saddle
lone zealot
molten radish
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I've been rereading egghead and started thinking about Luffy's dream. I genuinely believe that Luffy wants to either: 1. go to space or 2. swim/explore the sea

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These are the only two things that can only be done after Luffy has become the King of the Pirates. In Luffy's mind, being the Pirate King isn't enough since Roger has already done it. Luffy's dream needs to go beyond what we already know is possible.

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I'm putting my bets on space, but I can't dismiss the sea.

brave yew
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Hey there, I developed a sophisticated lore and anime inspiration origin theory that appears to allow explaining a WHOLE LOT of one piece, and because I technically am not really so closely following it, and because I'm quite late into it to theorize about it when others already have done a whole lot of that, I'd like to present it, explain it and see based on feedback if some of it may be new, because if so, then I guess people here would be interested in it. I don't mind spoilers of content beyond the anime that much but tend to like figuring things out on my own, but yeah.

Do people know yet that the devil fruits are passion fruits? (though that'd just be the very beginning of the elaborate theory)

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  1. go to space
    no, that's not it.
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I'm putting my bets on space, but I can't dismiss the sea.
No, that's what other adversaries are actually planning to do, and from some folks like Dr. Vegapunk they'll be informed about why to stop them.

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Well okay anyway, I'll provide my theory then (but I hope that I can trust the channel topic's promise allowing really long pieces of analysis, because this will be a LOT, and a whole lot more can be deduced with it, which I haven't even begun much yet to get to):

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So, I'll be going over my deduction process in chronological order, which though includes updating some of my earlier interpretations with parts that come later, but here we go:

Regarding the concept of devil fruits in one piece, another idea sparked up, namely if maybe they may be inspired by the name and kind of the passion fruit:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passion_fruit_(fruit)

The passion fruit (Portuguese: maracujá and Spanish: maracuyá, both from the Tupi mara kuya "fruit that serves itself" or "food in a cuia") is the fruit of a number of plants in the genus Passiflora.[1][2]

The fruits by their name "serve themselves", feed themselves; they (or rather the passions/desires that they represent) "consume the person that eats them, so that they develop the associated passion/desire", leading to the devil fruits to generally fit to the styles, personalities of the people that have them. And then artistic freedom is taken from there for how it's physically expressed, with exaggerations that are common in manga/anime.

Passion fruits are round or oval, and range from a width of 1.5 to 3 inches (3.81 to 7.62 centimetres).[1] They can be yellow, red, purple, and green.[1]

And they exist in a variety of colours and kinds, which fits.

I was wondering if that potential connection or inspiration has come up already (though the author of the manga may have made it public by now, too, if there is a connection), and there didn't seem to be much, but there was a (rather recent, actually) video that seemed to point at a connection between these things: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iM7v6eJQco

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And I guess since one can only have 1 true passion, people are in the anime said to die (normally) if they try to eat more than 1. For them to be called devil fruits may be due to these passions being "egoistic" in a sense, and could risk a person only anymore focusing their compassion, being "taken in" by them.
yeah there is lots of nonsense in it, but sometimes it's interesting, and early on it was much better and they at least seem to eventually explain earlier plot holes, mysteries, and I don't watch that many of these and so I'd like to see how it continues

Black beard's passion then should be related to greed. including taking and stealing even others' passions (and hence their devil fruit powers), taking others over. After all, he literally steals the flame of Ace, and I'm not sure what could represent the concept of a passion itself more than fire, like in the saying of "being fire and flame" or in high spirits for smth.

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So I have an extremely solid (due to countless pieces of evidence fitting right into it) theory about what the devil-fruits in one piece represent:
They are kind of an artificial external booster for otherwise too unmotivated people to develop a passion of their own when it doesn't come from themselves already, whereas some (actually passionate) people can develop it without them just as much, but the price for not having to have developed such passion by oneself (for if one nonetheless would want to develop a strong passion for smth, striving to be the best at smth like how at least many of straw-hat's crew say they want to do) is that by eating the passion-(giving)-fruit (devil fruit), they lose the ability to swim, become weak in water and at contact with those sea prism stones (though I'm not yet sure why it'd be this weakness specifically, and maybe one could find a fitting interpretation for an explanation here, too, unless it's just for the reason that the setting of the whole world is a huge archipelago with islands everywhere, so that to be able to spread their dominance in what individuals are passionate about, or others awareness of their passion or to become the best at their passion globally, they have to move a lot across the sea, putting them then at especial danger).

For example, Brook's passion clearly is related to being a rockstar (as means for it), as he's all about music. And if he wants to become legendary for that, "be the best at it", that puts him into a position alike Elvis, and I think I can also explain then why his devil fruit ability is to have an "immortal soul", because since people tend to really love music and singers especially, in a sense, these people can become "immortal" even if they already died, because so many people worldwide for years, decades after will still listen to their music and remember them; much more so than when it comes to other skills to be passionate about and legendarily good at.

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And for Nico Robin, I think one can explain it similarly, but in order to make that more clear, I think one has to go more to the beginnings or the roots of when she appears, namely for what she was intended to use her ability for, mostly, and what she also used her ability for (rather than making body parts grow in all kinds of places for attacks), namely to be an extremely curious, information-seeking person that wants to know everything, especially about the history of the world (which makes sense since she in her past lived on that island of historians with huge libraries full of books to learn about the history from), and so she was later (when she worked for Crocodile) because of that ability very useful to work as spy because she could make her ears and eyes spawn on remote surfaces to see and hear what other people would say, write, or whatever is behind walls.

And in the case of Doflamingo, it helps explaining his situation with a passion-based explanation approach, too, because given (his name and) his clothes full of feathers, he's a power- or control-seeking person (playing people like marionettes), and because that kind of motive is too general and shared by so many characters, an additional personal flavor is given to him in how specifically he wants to take control over others, which is expressed with the concept of a bird cage and he surely doesn't just by chance happen to cast a huge bird cage over all of Dressrosa.

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And for Zoro, he's kind of an exception or 1 of probably only few people that developed a passion on their own, without the need for help from a devil-fruit to do so (though I wonder how it is in the case of the upcoming Dr. Vegapunk in that regard). After all, he seems to be able to develop skills that are like and rival the magical skills that otherwise only devil-fruit consumers can have/reach. And so this leads me to believe that in principle, any person in One Piece could gain such powers if they have the will-power and a passion to apply it to, and so that they technically wouldn't rely on these devil-fruits at all, if it weren't for lack of motivation otherwise, or for maybe having been made to believe that they are necessary, or that people in general tend too much to "take the easy path" (and not go for their passion otherwise, not even trying to compete with others in trying to become the best at "their thing"). He seems to feel strong about a character trait alike determination or, self-control, character strength.

But for Sanji, the situation is similar, but not quite the same, I think. After all, while he didn't eat a devil-fruit, he (alongside his siblings in his backstory) got a serum injected that was meant to have the effect of genetically changing him to become a kind of super-human (for his father's intent to make a warrior or perfect soldier of his kids, with Sanji failing to do so and disappointing him, probably because it was too far from his actual passion which is (more generally) serving others out of compassion, and he does so by cooking, being a chef, the best chef, and with that being what his skills, attacks are all derived from).

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There probably is a bunch of (in the manga or anime anyway) rather irrelevant people with devil-fruit powers where it'd be harder to find good explanations based on this theory to make sense of them, but for the important, more prominent and involved ones for the story, there should be interpretations of that kind to find, to make sense of their abilities.

But it'd be interesting then to go through the variety of powerful characters with unique abilities to try to derive their deepest passions from that (and from their looks, which tends to fit to that). And I think this kind of theory can also help explain why those 7 Haki abilities (jumping in air, pistol-like finer-stabbing, body-hardening to protect themselves from devil-fruit powers,...) exist that the more advanced Marine soldiers are able to use (without having eaten devil-fruits for it, for which then they'd have to exist in masses anyway) probably as part of the abilities the passionate soldiers develop over time.

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There'd surely be a whole lot more to be figured out and thought about on this topic, but I wonder if and (if so) to what degree people like the hardcore one piece fans that may buy and get all those additional fan info magazines and whatnot and may follow and ask for the manga's authors' explanations and secrets about contents of the anime (though idk if Oda shares many insights about one piece) have figured out yet about the lore regarding devil fruits or the abilities that contribute greatly to how the world of one piece differs from our real world (though separately from that, there'd also be those very many crazy environmental phenomena that'd then seem to stay unexplained).

But I think regarding the devil fruits, I've pretty much figured their role out by now, though not all details about them, but the central idea behind them.

Also, Smoker's ability is literally to turn into smoke, and he clearly smokes a lot, and while one could wonder about the direction of causality there, namely for which one comes first or has to come first, the ability from a fruit to then shape their behavior or preferences, or the other way around, I think it's now clear that it's the other way around.

Regarding the different (3?) kinds of devil-fruits that exist and by which they are classified, I'm not sure yet, but that probably is more the result of Oda having had to bring some order into the very diverse set of the kinds of passions people can have (and then creative abilities relating to them), but there may be more to it.

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Early on, also as part of Crocodile's members, there's that woman that then probably is all about her weight (like many women irl that carefully watch their weight), since she can change her weight between that of a feather or the weight of mountains or so, and that allows her to adjust her weight to whatever her liking is.

And Luffy's Grandpa literally is a to the Marine submissive, obedient (lap-)dog, based on his ability, so his main trait that he embodies probably is loyalty (which of course is well-placed among the Marine for designing the world setting).

I suppose 1 of the Marine admirals, namely Aokiji must be about coming across cool (and maybe that's also why he's more of a black person, going by stereotypes), having such impression on others, so cool even that he can cast ice.

Then the other one that currently leads the Marine having the hottest angry temper, being a magma-spewing volcano not by chance.

And then the final one of the 3 at the top probably must be thinking he's literally god, or at the top like the sun, with his ability being about light-ray attacks and being fast as light.

Notice also how the only admiral that's literally more "down to earth", not lifted up or detached from reality or the grounds of common sense is the blind one, I suppose, whose ability is to manipulate gravitation... which fits into my theory for the origin of the abilities coming from characters' main traits (either with devil/passion fruit help or without), too.

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And then, since the concept expands even beyond just humans, there's
(i) that elephant that wanted to be a saber,

then (ii) that dog that wanted to be a gun,

and (iii) that reindeer (Chopper) that wanted to be a human

In probably all of the cases they had such passionate motivation for that due to outright the most critical kinds of desires, namely for survival. And for the choice of their passions, in the first 2 cases it's probably the very weapons they would be hunted with by humans, and so the desires to be or have those weapons can come from being able to defend themselves or wanting to have the same power, to do so (and are possibly the most common weapons used against them, since somehow a choice would have to be made among many candidates)

But in Chopper's case I guess it's more elaborate, more thought-through of what Chopper desired, namely to be accepted as living being or person, and not hunted, and for that, he surely thought he had to be a human, and so he desired that the most and it came true for him.

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So I guess the world of One Piece is a world of the Competition or Battle of individuals' deepest Passions/Desires (or the repeatedly re-incarnated desires themselves, in new people, maybe in 800 year cycles or so).

So the devil fruit abilities are more physical representations of strongly developed character traits, passions, desires. And I guess in some cases, the way in how those are connected with each other, when it's not as clear (like with the rock-star Brooks being a ghost), common expressions, phrases that serve as metaphors for translating between physical traits and character traits are used.

Or I guess the devil fruit powers do in a way represent the true desires of people, but the means by which people try to achieve what they desire can make their desires harder to see from the outside (so if Brook truly seems to be about Youth, Longevity, avoiding painful body decay to death, especially with that reference to the whale waiting for him, wanting him to live longer to be able to meet the whale, and whales live long, the way he may think of achieving that could be by being a legendary rock-star or so).

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So if One Piece is a world in which desires are battling each other, and the strongest desires win, then some of the desires part of Luffy's crew should be:

(smth that must be close to) Acceptance/Wanting to be accepted (Chopper; the means to do so is by becoming a great doctor to help people and to earn it; he has problems with being given credit when maybe he doesn't feel so much that he earned it)

Compassion / serving others(?) (Sanji; with the means for that being cooking)

Youth/Longevity or the desire to evade death or avoid dying, immortality (Brook; the means being legendary fame, obtaining an immortal soul through music that moves many people, and because of the effectiveness of music for that I guess it's him and not others that may also try that),

the desire to understand the world history (and probably future, but that should be Vegapunk) (Nico Robin; the means to express that with is to have her organs for sense perception be present everywhere, though that turned into her using her limbs for fighting, which isn't quite what her abilities are meant to be about),

Then Luffy who's about Freedom. And I think the core reason for why that's expressed in him being a gummi man is actually the banal thing of being able to make funny moves with his body (like it's shown a lot at his awakening at the Kaido fight and later when talking to Bonny like in the anime atm) and making funny face-grimaces which he did in the past a lot at banquets, to make people laugh and feel happy together.

Innovation/Ingenuity (maybe also Learning?) or maybe technical expertise: Franky (via all the robot and tech creations etc.)

Courage: sniper Ussop (being a sniper so he can be at safe distance, starting out as weakly developed character but over time gaining more and more courage; and having used lies rather than having the courage to be honest, to get out of dangerous situations etc.)

Determination / Character Strength / Self-Control: swordsman Zoro

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"seeing right through Oda", just gotta be a real-world Dr. Vegapunk for that 😉 (but I really wonder how much of this has been figured out already, I'm probably late)
"when the future meets the past, then it's where we presently are in the anime or manga"

For Luffy wanting to be the pirate kind should be the for this goal chosen means to get to freedom, so the way how Luffy tries to achieve freedom in the world. By being the king of the people that go between all the islands to try to become dominant there and spread their influence. So that he can tame or control that.

Nami though, I forgot her, but well, she's a treasure hunter personality, but specialized in weather, and then there's also the fishman Jinbe.
[Later I figured that Nami should be about Commonwealth, the good for the common people, but wealth accumulation is related to that; and for Jinbe it should be about mutual respectful treatment between species, different kinds of people.]

What fundamental (and surely necessarily in nature good) desires they represent isn't (wasn't) clear yet to me.

Hmm I feel like Shanks must be about making sacrifices to achieve greater good. It's the 1st and main thing he does to save the young kid Luffy (freedom), losing his arm in the process, when the huge sea-snake bites off his arm. Red-haired (surely a blood reference) Shanks.

And generally speaking, I think if one wants to figure out the lore or over-arching theme, one likely is better going to find that in the earlier episodes where things were more on point, clear, less diluted by advertisement and filler episodes, tangents etc.

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Authors tend to hide their key ideas especially to be subtly hinted at in the beginning, so that once the readers finally realize it near the end, they can go back and enjoy it another time but more fully.

hmm, the 3 "brothers" (when they form their bond with each other via sake), Luffy (freedom), Ace (maybe a high/positive spirit encouraging others?), and Sabo (not sure yet what he stands for, but he inherits Ace's ability, he becomes that symbol for a high spirit, hope I guess).

The sake scenery surely represents smth like Hope for or in aid of Freedom, as one could see these 2 concepts as "brothers", as close (metaphorical) relatives to each other.

Though the Hope temporarily died to the extreme aggression or anger of that admiral though, the 1st time with Ace.

Now, I though also have to say that seeing how One Piece started out, like with what ideas behind it, it's quite sad to see what it has become, in terms of like the character development of the crew of the straw-hats. They mostly basically are dumbed down to the bare-bones of their characters, it's all about "Meat, Love, Panties,..Robots..." whenever they are of high spirit, excited or smth...

"Sabo inherits Ace's power (for hope, for freedom, due to being closest friend to Luffy) on the island on which Doflamingo tries to cast a huge cage of his steel-hard, fine strings and pulls it in narrower and narrower, threatening the people in it to be all cut up" (and hence remove people from hope or freedom). Certainly was a symbolic choice, too, to have it be that way.

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I guess then the role that Gol D. Roger played was just to initiate the whole competition, giving people the belief that they could strive for their passions, desires to encompass the whole world (rather than staying restrained to just their island).

Oh, and I think in exactly the above context, I maybe can now also make more sense of Whitebeard with his tremor-tremor fruit. Given that he was the pirate king, so him having ruled in the past, I think that given how he applies his fruit's power at the battle against the Marine HQ, namely by massively shaking up the entire sea around it, threatening the island, his ruling probably represents the rough sea, which previously had prevented people from dreaming about or trying to have larger-scale goals that'd encompass the whole world more, rather than just their individual islands (until Roger later had that kind of deal or talk with Whitebeard, wanting to change that up, and would be why they (or the competing concepts they represent) probably had to meet).

And Whitebeard and Roger in their battle in the past that's referenced in the previous arc in "japan" must be representing some kind of change of mind or a deal that they make about changing that up, since Roger (knowing he didn't have much longer to live) wanted to free up the world so people('s desires) had access to spread across the globe, which lead to quite the chaos.

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But for that, I guess Roger had to, and wanted to borrow Momonosuke's father Oden, to be able to find the final island, probably where they can find a guy on there that knows about meaning itself.

Maybe Whitebeard's a "conservative guy" or plays such a role, representing an old order. I'd have to disappoint Oda though, because freedom... too much of it, too recklessly, irresponsibly, can also be dangerous, but I guess to his point is that at least that freedom is trying to find meaning, to have a compass, to know where things should go. But yeah of course, too little of it can also be a major problem.

Also, it's good to see that it seems like Oda's japanese. If he'd been chinese, then I'd actually been worried about how possibly revealing "the true intention, nature" behind the anime could've caused him trouble, but in japan, that should be fine. But I could understand it more if people in China would try to hide narratives, deeper meanings like that, where "all smaller fish that make it too clear" may not have a chance to... well, survive [long-term in that rather authoritative environment] is a strong word, but yeah.

"The One Piece (main) characters are embodiments of their inner-most desires, forming a crew to change the world together".

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Surely Oda didn't start out thinking about passion fruits and powers but that must've been a secondary (or later) element to add into the world of One Piece. It surely started out by him conceptualizing a world about people's competing desires, ambitions, passions, and when he was doing research about that, he probably stumbled over the passion fruit and was intrigued by it and thought he just had to incorporate them in some way and quickly found a fitting way in how he could do that.

The fact that other people are able to develop insane abilities without devil fruits indicates that surely, the manga or anime in principle also could've been done without those fruits (or the important parts, themes to be conveyed, at least, but clearly they ended up shaping the the implementation of the dynamic of the evolving story-line).

Maybe Nami is about wealth, but a different form of it: Commonwealth. Yeah that's probably it. Nami's still rather weak, so that may mean her character still has a longer way to go to develop towards that.

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Hmm, Zoro's initial weakness (not sure how much of that is still left) was to find the right direction; he'd repeatedly get lost (and in fact, in "Wa no Kuni", he gets lost, too, so that's still a trait), but I'm not quite sure how that (surely) is ought to be translated to him symbolizing strength in character; maybe he doesn't always quite know where to put it or what to apply his strength to(?) He needs guidance from the others to know where to apply it.

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/luffy-sun-god-by-moriadoesart--968133251128216875/
And that ^ surely also stands for freedom; the man on the moon; not bound to or by the planet...

I'm certain that the anime must be going to space eventually, too. Enel with his arch trying to fly to the moon must been foreshadowing that (and those "celestial dragons people" with their space helmets not wanting to breathe the same air as the normal people). Enel with Noah's Arch, wanting to reach out to other worlds, spreading biospheres... he's the main criminal, I'm telling you. They should not have let him go when they were in Skypia. Which makes me wonder, really... about what Oda's stance is with respect to Enel. They were confronting him and fighting him, but it wasn't as final as with other opponents.

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No surprise that Dragon is Luffy's father, leading the revolutionaries (and surely being about revolution in some abstract sense, too); I guess it should mean the revolution will lead to freedom (as the next step or generation after revolution).

I guess Mihawk Dulacre has the accuracy, sharpness in that sense that Zoro lacks (and lacked in their fight long ago), and I guess the physical expressions of those 2 concepts, strength and accuracy are competing.

I guess what Gol D. Roger was the 1st at in proving, is that one could at all travel to all islands of the world, and confirmed that for others to reassure them that they could in principle (if they tried enough) dominate world-wide in their ambitions, passions.

Not sure if there's a final island then even though then again, apparently islands also can simply be eradicated, and so such an island may be gone already anyway, at least there doesn't seem to be so much of a need for it from the perspective of the over-arching theme (unless it's about finding the random island that may have the guy on it that's passionate about finding meaning, clearly that guy then though must have major problems or must majorly be struggling in trying to spread that to other islands).

Finally, it makes sense Nami (commonwealth) is initially on her island under the oppression of (money-/loan-)sharks.

brave yew
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https://gamerant.com/one-piece-how-devil-fruits-creation-explained/

Later on, in Punk Hazard, the birth of a Devil Fruit was witnessed for the first time with the Sara Sara no Mi, Model: Axolotl.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axolotl

Axolotls are used extensively in scientific research due to their ability to regenerate limbs, gills and parts of their eyes and brains.[8] Notably, their ability to regenerate declines with age, but it does not disappear. Axolotls keep modestly growing throughout their life and some consider this trait to be a direct contributor to their regenerative abilities.[9]

So based on my explanation theory's approach, I'd interpret this event such that at Punk Hazard (probably the Punk part also is related to the application of technology, science, but in hazardous ways), the first time (or again) a strong desire was birthed, namely by the presence of and bad treatment of all those kids that grew to over-sizes during experiments where they tried to create giant humans to use them for their armies, power, with the experimented on kids suffering all the side-effects from that, and the Axolotl clearly is about body regeneration. So my theory can solve this mystery EZ.

And so I guess this applies in general then for how devil-/passion-fruits naturally (rather than artificially and then not being real desires but with deficiencies, as seen at Wa no Kuni), with them appearing somewhere on an island that by some means produces a certain strong desire especially much compared to elsewhere. So that should cover their origin generally then.

Though I could also see Vegapunk or someone possibly creating them as means of making it easier for people to develop certain strong passions, for chosen passions.

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As the story went on, more and more details about these fruits were revealed to the fans and, with time, Oda made sure to drop bits of information about how these fruits worked. For instance, during the Enies Lobby arc, Oda revealed through the CP9 that no person could eat more than one Devil Fruit as the devil inside their body would not allow that, and the person would quite literally explode or cease to exist.

Those "devils" inside people should be their strongest passions, and there can only be 1, with the exception of Blackbeard's insaturable greed, which may be the only 1 to circumvent that.

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In Dressrosa, the rebirth cycle of these fruits was explained to the fans and now, in the Egghead Island arc, Oda has finally revealed the answer to how these Devil Fruits came into existence. According to Dr. Vegapunk, Devil Fruits come into existence through imagination or a want for something.

... I swear I had not long ago figured that out on my own (and given the many other deductions, that may be more understandable).

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Ever since the very beginning of the story, it has been established that Devil Fruit users cannot swim. By eating these Devil Fruits, people gain tremendous amounts of power, depending on what kind of fruit they eat, however, they also lose something, and that is their ability to swim. For pirates who spent their entire lives on the seas, losing this ability is quite a massive deal.

And I independently came to the same conclusion.

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As such, he brands them to be an unnatural way for evolution. Evidently, this goes against the laws of nature, and the sea, being one of the manifestations of mother nature, hates Devil Fruit users for it.
Okay that is an extension of the concept I hadn't yet come to think of yet, but it makes sense, given the sea is the origin of life, if one were to view those devil fruit powers from an evolutionary perspective, going against or cheating natural laws.

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It isn't known how exactly the desire that people have manifests into these Devil Fruits, whether or not these fruits always existed and which fruit was the very first one to exist.

Ah, though the first should be among the ancient animal species (and I mean at Kaido's island, many of them have dinosaur devil fruits as surely species back then fleeing from predators would have wanted to be such predator themselves). And the desire just needs to be massive enough, surely, and probably shared among enough and they may all have to be around the same place, not distributed wildly, and maybe the specific cause for the desire must be the same.

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The devil fruits likely are also the cause of why sea-monsters exist and are so large and why fish-people exist; both coming from strong enough aggregations of desires. I guess the way Oda derived what the One Piece world should be like by thinking about how such a world naturally could have developed from the very beginning of evolution on the planet onward.

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https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/Raijin_Island

I suppose that also for whoever lives on that island may (per desire) produce gum-gum-like devil fruits naturally (but that doesn't equate to them coming from the same kind of desire, passion, expression of trait), for safety from the lightning. And so it may suffice to see major general threats of islands to derive the existence of kinds of devil fruits.

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I guess I have a good "upper bound" for the requirements for the natural emergence of a devil fruit: The size of the crew that Brook had when they all died to the poison iirc: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXAtu-Dei_o . That must've already quite quickly (though possibly over some weeks of them sailing there without finding any place) even created the devil fruit, with just Brook having been able to take it and survive (in spirit).

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And it explains (what near the end in the video Brook is wondering or asking about, namely) why Brook was the last one to die. He must've eaten it earlier already and so it spawned at some point prior to that last song. It probably made him somewhat physically stronger than the others. They also put a clear reference in there about that young whale, for the desire to not die before meeting the whale again. However, actually it could be that this devil fruit only spawned near the very end, when they zoom the camera out (to not quite see him taking a bite, possibly), and he just ended up being the last one to die and is chosen that way, but if someone else had been the last, then it'd been them, and I guess if that's a principle that applies generally, then the physically strongest or smartest, generally most fit ones (or also lucky or greedy, egoistic ones) would be rewarded in such pseudo-evolutionary process.

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But this should also allow to reverse-engineer what historical desires must have existed for the creation of certain devil-fruits, except that even if one knows their basic powers, it can still be hard to figure out how they're connected to a specific desire.

solar hedge
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Just had a thought:

What if Zunesha is so tall because he was originally created/designed to save the minks from the flood that may come about from destroying the Red Line?

dawn aurora
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I believe Kozuki Toki and Nefertari D. Lili might be strongly related or even be the same person. Her disappearance falls within the same window as Toki's time jump too.

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She was born 830 years ago since the current timeline making her the ideal age to be a young ruler too.

spare meadow
quaint shale
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I really don’t think imu is a girl and that’s all I have to say

brave yew
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I've thought about the characters' main traits some more and I was slightly off; Luffy's clearly about Friendship, not Freedom (even though in combination with Hope, Optimism, in the bond with Ace, that'd seemed reasonable, too), trying to make friends is what Luffy's about. But that then allows to make sense of Luffy himself not being a more grey character, because freedom isn't only good, if one's nuanced about it (people e.g. can take personal freedoms too far, affecting others negatively).

And for Sanji, to be more precise, it's not as much Compassion but Love, given the Wedding at Whole Cake Island, and him being in love all the time, and to then explain why he's cooking (especially) for Nami and Robin, it's likely tied to the saying "love goes through the stomach".

And Belami surely has those high jumps allowing spring legs because of there having existed either further or less far in the past the desire to reach Skypia (though maybe just for the alleged treasure there) or the sky by at least some of the population there, spawning a devil fruit that allows to at least jump very high (and possibly reach it eventually with enough training).

And it makes sense that the devil fruit power for revolution (at Monkey D. Dragon who's the son of a former admiral or so, and so he lived very close to the marine HQ) emerged at or close to the marine HQ because given the world setting, with the marine oppressing people, such oppression would have existed the longest and the strongest the closest to the HQ, and I guess the means by which revolution was meant to be physically enabled was strong storms to affect the sea, which the marine relies on.

Also, I suppose that once there's no more desires left to be formed, so when everyone's strongest desires are satisfied, it means the end of devil fruits, but not necessarily devil-fruit-like, from passions emerging abilities.

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-> Also, the whole anime that's called "Sonny Boy" (possibly a reference to "Joy Boy") may actually be using an analogous concept to that of One Piece, and it may prove that someone figured its concept out (or came to know about it in some form), given some similarities in regard to to people tied/associated, or by them controlled, caused mysterious phenomena or powers, and them ending up on an island, and the creativity that rivals that of One Piece.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonny_Boy_(TV_series)

Sonny Boy utilizes non-traditional storytelling, occasionally skipping over major events and instead focusing on various characters' reactions to those events. While fantasy elements are present, the show primarily uses its setting to explore psychological themes such as identity, social expectation, freedom, and loneliness.[2]
Midway through a seemingly endless day of summer vacation, third-year middle school student Nagara and his class, along with transfer student Nozomi and the aloof and mysterious Mizuho, are suddenly transported to an alternate dimension. The group calls the new dimension "This World", and finds it has its own set of rules and physics. Over time, while trying to get back home, they realize that they have individual supernatural abilities, but also find it difficult to navigate their own interpersonal relationships.

The class later splits into two groups due to internal conflicts. As both the groups continue journeying to find their way back home, they discover many other students who have spent thousands of years in other "This Worlds". "

brave yew
# solar hedge Just had a thought: What if Zunesha is so tall because he was originally create...

I think there surely is a devil-fruit related reason for it but it may just rather be animals from an african-like savanna region having wanted to flee from humans, in particular the elephants that are known to have compassion and want to not only save themselves but the others among them, too, and so the means by which they're meant to be enabled to do that could be for that elephant to grow large enough to be essentially an own island that can move around and on which the others can live on. And so that elephant may actually represent the concept of Compassion (which could be a big deal because that's another important trait that should fit well into the traits represented by the straw-hats).

brave yew
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Okay, I see it clearly now: If one understands Friendship as a Bond, then Luffy literally is/represents a bond that encompasses the friends, people around him, and that can stretch further and further, and therefore it's the gum-gum-fruit. One can see scenes often where he pulls his arms out to reach out to his comrades when they're in danger, even when he has to jump into the sea for it.

pale stirrup
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L#p

brave yew
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The X-shaped scar on Luffy's chest was caused by Admiral Akainu during the Marineford War arc and was a result of Jinbe protecting Luffy.
The anger of the admiral (or great anger in general) is what hurt Luffy greatly, and is what hurts friendship greatly, in general. And given how much lack of friendship there overall is in the world of one piece, it makes sense that Luffy got scars all over his body upon encounters of more and more places in their world: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQsWIaUmQNM

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And I think viewing it from such a perspective may also help allowing to explain that scene where Zoro takes in the bubble of pain from Luffy's scars/wounds when Kuma extracts it from Luffy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAtZoIFW2Uw . Given Luffy standing for friendship, if he'd seen Zoro do that, he'd not wanted others to have to do that for him, he'd rather tried to carry that weight on his own shoulders, but Zoro knows he should rather take it because he's more suited for that due to his Strength.

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And so if Gold Roger was the king of the pirates before Luffy and aimed for that for the same reason, same passion, and may have even had the very same fruit power (though a different flavor, kind would also be thinkable for smth equivalent), and if Gold Roger also had to struggle a whole lot to get there (just as Luffy is collecting scars, wounds along the journey), then that could be why Roger in the end, as costs for all of that, anyway didn't have much longer to live anymore and so his execution wasn't such a big deal, given that he knew what he achieved, namely great friendship across the globe that should at least hold out for longer, surpass his time.

However, since we surely don't want to just repeat that temporary peace that turns into a tragedy because it wasn't able to last for long, which surely Oda would be aware of, it then becomes an interesting question if someone alike Brook was part of Roger's crew back then or not, and I think there wasn't, because that may have been a critical missing piece to make global peace/friendship last indefinitely.

nimble fox
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General post time skip theory:
There's no grand reveal behind why zoro has an eye scarred shut and possibly gone. It's simply Oda choosing a character design so that Zoro and Sanji literally never see eye to eye (they both have their right eyes covered/shut).

brave yew
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Interesting. Sanji indeed seems to basically never appear with both eyes visible. I think (that if it weren't so plausible that in Zoro's case it came from fighting/training with those dangerous monkeys at Mihawk's island, given that there's a scar, whereas in Sanji's case it's not clear if there's any wound at all) it might be related to the rivalry that has been going on since forever, but sharpening up more recently, between Love and Self-Control or Strength of Character, where Sanji may view Zoro as just socially cold (though should be mistaken on that, be misinterpreting it) whereas Zoro is critical of Sanji being too easily swayed by his emotional whims, being not reliable for that reason (like at Kaido's stronghold where Sanji hears women noises and just runs off), though also a further extension of that where Sanji might eventually end up turning his Love into egoism, treating women badly or abusing them, which when they are at Kaido's stronghold, when Sanji realizes that due to the serum taking on an effect on him, his personality may change, he calls Zoro in the midst of his battle to kill him (Sanji) if he ever starts becoming such an abusive person. And I think ultimately the reason why Zoro is ranked above Sanji has its reason sourced in there.

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Not sure if the right interpretation there would be that it's because they cannot see each other eye to eye anymore, but maybe them (or their concepts they represent) being in the same team may come at a handicap for both generally due to some incompatibilities between them.

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Another relevant factor there may also be that while Sanji feels like he's unable to fight women, and so possibly because he thinks in some sense it'd be unfair or that they couldn't defend themselves as much, and in extension of that it may mean he doesn't quite respect them as equal, Zoro on the other hand in his childhood at the dojo was beaten by a slightly older girl and knows 1st hand that he cannot underestimate women just for being women. However, at the same time, that girl eventually tells Zoro that she basically has to give up her dream of becoming a swordswoman (I guess) because women's bodies just aren't suited for that, are e.g. not quite as physically strong, and so I'm not sure to what extent Zoro accepts, believes that, but by having been told about that directly, there should be at least some understanding of where Sanji may be coming from, or what Sanji's point may be.

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Or Zoro may view it as insult toward him since he as kid lost against a girl.

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Also the fact that Sanji smokes could be viewed as initial (but apparently long-lasting) weakness or lack of development in what passion he represents, namely Love, because the means by which he expresses that is by cooking, and bad cigarette smell to be exposed to doesn't fit well to that, can be disgusting.

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But regarding Zoro's cut eye, I think that it wasn't explained is a clue that it couldn't have been explained yet at the time as it'd reveal too much, and for that to be the case, the explanation would have to go deep enough into the lore, whereas if it were more banal or without further potential abstract meaning attached to it, they could and would have covered how it happened in some episodes at the time, just like other scars' causation wasn't hidden.

faint peak
#

What if of all races, the Lunarian race was used to try and make the public think Nika was evil?

#

Which explains how Nika could be a lunarian, and explained why the Seraphim use lunarian DNA of all things.

#

What if there were good and bad lunarians, and King is a descendent of an evil lunarian? And King cut of all connections with his Lunarian heritage because of Nika?

#

What if Nika ate the light light fruit and the rubber fruit?

brave yew
#

Another reason why Sanji's ranked lower is that he refuses to use his arms/fists in fights, surely because to him that behavior would feel like to be too close to hitting/slapping women, and he wants to be a gentleman.

faint peak
#

Maybe Nika, Imu, Nefertari D. Lili, and that guy on the alabasta poneglyph were the chosen siblings, but Nika and that one sibling from alabasta are the only ones that became good!

#

And Nika, the alabasta ponelgpyh guy, fought Imu and Lili!

#

Maybe the immortality surgery makes the user a raw "room element" being.

brave yew
#

I have another theory for another character's ability, or how that came to exist, namely for Momonosuke's mother who can make herself or others closeby jump forward in time. Japan, or Wa no Kuni was cut off from all the other islands, "closed", not with "opened up borders", and so that meant their development didn't keep up with the others (and at least afaik that's a theme irl for Japan that has some truth in it), and so there it'd make sense that since they were kind of left behind in less developed times, that a desire for changing that up, e.g. by jumping into the future, getting to experience the world with that progress having happened already, would emerge.

#

And kind of analogous or similar to that likely must be Kuma's ability to teleport people to other places that he touches. I guess he must come from a region that people really just wanted to get away from.

brave yew
#

I guess the reason for why Ace's devil fruit appeared so soon after Ace's death is that there are plenty of places in the world of One Piece where people needed Hope, or are in desperate situations of oppressions, and that the fruit specifically appeared at Dressrosa may have been due to that place having been especially bad (and while what happens in the future probably cannot be part of the consideration, the place approached getting even worse, especially when Doflamingo pulled in that cage with which to cut everyone in there to death, and so if that'd be already part of the plan, then in hindsight it can have made sense to make it spawn there).

brave yew
#

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyG3b3mCOXc
^> So while passion fruits should be part of the inspiration for using fruits as alternative means (besides genuine passions) to obtain passions, devil fruits aren't restricted to passion-fruits in One Piece
^> And I guess in the case of the Axolotl devil fruit, that slime monster must've been 1 of the over-grown, experimented with kids, and probably the one where things went the worst, making it develop the strongest desire to regenerate their body back to normal at that point, making the apple turn into the devil fruit.

brave yew
humble oyster
#

Rewatching one piece and i got to the fishman island flashback arc about queen otohime bringing aid to a celestial dragon
one line in particular popped out at me
"My whole worthless crew just had to go and die" (dubbed)
"Damn! They are all dead! What weaklings!" (subbed)
And thus i am reminded of Charlos. Despite being the worlds dirtiest punching bag. He has taken a lot of hits that would most assuredly kill a normal man.
Being flattened like a pancake or luffy sending him flying through several rows seats into a wall.
But god forbid he will not die... How DURABLE are these celestial dragons.
Or...maybe he did die...
Fast Forward to Egghead Island
We've discovered Vegapunk and one of his former subordinates, Vinsmoke Judge, both have discovered the means to clone people and soldiers.
Jaygarcia Saturn, the elder star and Warrior God of Science and Defense. He wants to kill vegapunk and had kept a close eye on him because he researched the void century while finding a means to clone people.
But than it clicks, what if he REdiscovered how to clone people.
Saturn who took charge over vegapunk because he knew vegapunk would get dangerously close to perfectly cloning individuals.
Though if he found a means to clone people, what say the ancient people of void century ALSO found a way to clone people.
What if its such a huge crime to attack a celestial dragon because if say one were to "die" while outside Mary Geoise. Than they would have a hard time explaining why the same Celestial Dragon would have re-appeared later. People would start to question the world government as people would than spread rumors about celestial dragons coming back assumingly back from the dead?!
Than an additional thought came to me. Could it also be possible the World Government not only was able to "perfectly" clone them. But also clone/transfer their minds?
Essentially making them immortal.

faint peak
grizzled elm
#

So what ship left the island?

faint peak
#

We've gotta see how Dragon fights at this point. Dragon has to be here to save his son.

earnest lodge
#

Dragon would make the most sense. We don't know of anyone else who is close with Vegapunk who isn't already on the island

crude glen
#

he maybe coming searching for kuma

grand flame
#

Grand fleet or Blackbeard or dragon

slim cloak
#

I’m 99% sure that the “escaping vessel” is doffy, or the guy marked by flames

grand flame
#

The wildest theory so far, it will be buggy

glossy parrot
#

seems like the straw hat fleet is on the way

earnest lodge
#

Random theory, could be Vinsmoke and Caesar Clown

stiff cypress
#

Since it’s a science arc it’s fitting

warm lichen
#

So what if su the fox from wano is actually super important and is a devil fruit eater

willow garden
warm lichen
frozen basalt
#

Luffy's grand fleet

hazy ember
#

The ship that is going to arrive at Egg Island could be the one that Laffitte mentioned, which is a man with a Devil Fruit ability that creates whirlpools around approaching ships. It could also be someone like Urouge on Blackbeard's ship or those who assisted Saul in Ohara to collect the books.

hybrid sky
#

Dragon is Pulling up to Egghead

He's gonna retrieve Kuma's dead body and take Stella to a Safe place and make sure luffy gets off the island

molten osprey
small hedge
warped delta
#

a theory when luffy finds the one piece he is going to drop dead

#

idk how

small hedge
hybrid sky
#

With Kuma's wounds he mostly won't make it unless a miracle happens

hybrid sky
autumn birch
wraith veldt
#

I think Zoro is pirate hunter sanji love women usopl string warrior Lufry love meat

rapid oar
#

who do yall think the seakings were talking about here? i think the klabautermann but idk

8a8e7537c98cdb66e6e9ec7546d76e84.png
gloomy wadi
#

who is pulling up to egghead

small hedge
autumn birch
#

that the man that is sorrounded with whirlpoorls and marked by flames couldnt be dragon if he is a misterious man and dragon is a public figure everyone knows. litterally it would have more sense if the man marked by flames were a fictional evil twin brother from someone than dragon itself

shadow kestrel
#

Dragon is mysterious

#

Fighting akainu at god valley might mark one with flames anyways

untold lance
#

i think akainu would have been like a teenager at gody valley. if he were in the marines, he would have just recently joined

versed gyro
shadow kestrel
#

He is the same age as dragon. I just think it is possible is all

haughty drift
#

Personally, i, don't think it could be BB just because it doesn't fit with his current objective

wooden fox
#

I don't think BB nor dragon is the one coming to egghead.
Since they are very far from it.
Dragon isn't even in the new world.

modern frost
#

What about Buggy and the XGuild? Why are we leaving those out of the scenario ?

wooden fox
#

I don't think it's the right time and place for this showdown to happen yet

brave yew
cerulean parrot
#

It is dragon

sterile cloak
#

I don't think it is dragon, but the chance of a revolutionary army member would be the best choice honeslty, like I don't think it will be Sabo or dragon coming to egghead but maybe the 4 generals will be coming with a few revolutionary army members to come collect vegapunk and the records

cerulean parrot
#

Plus I think after oda stating throughout the arc and honestly the story dragons hesitancy to pull the trigger him waiting for something so unprecedented like Saturn revealing himself and his real form is just the opportunity he’s been waiting for and for dragon to come in and completely shitcan saturn would be one of the biggest and best payoffs in the series

brave yew
#

-> Also, I now better see how to make sense of the blind admiral representing selfless-ness, in contrast to the arrogant light-ray or sun related admiral who probably is represented by the sun since it's "the center of the world (or the solar system)" which would be how he feels about himself; and also from the perspective of contrasting especially those 2 characters, if one would view or measure their egos based on height... then with the light admiral's ego being all the way up at the top: the sun; for the blind one it's the opposite, it's in the center of earth, represented by its gravitational pull, and there's at least 2 more ways in how selflessness fits to the blind admiral: 1. He doesn't even give/allow himself the authority to make own decisions, uses dice rolls to guide him and plays at the casino, probably indicating that he leaves decisions to the external world (though not others, to not be exploited, but just neutral chance itself), and 2. he's blind, making him (i) have to rather crawl on the ground if needed, hence his ego being lower, more subordinate to others, and eyes usually represent the soul or will of a person, but he's selfless, so he's blind.
^> and maybe the light devil fruit admiral may also be the one that serves "divine punishment" and may have taken out the whole island that Sabo was on...

-> Also Chopper must represent the fundamental character trait Humanity itself as doctor, rather than just Acceptance, pretty sure...

(parts of this whole thing is still a WIP after all)

#

-> About that (surely unrestricted, maybe insaturable growth, alike economical growth, related) plant or huge tree devil fruit user admiral, I haven't seen so much of him yet... but I think he said he wanted to go up in ranks and hence follows or wants to satisfy the leading angry admiral's wishes...
^> and it's not just growth by any (e.g. neutral) means but by sucking others dry... and maybe him being a plant devil fruit user in relation to the volcano-like leading admiral makes sure of their ranking relation staying the way it is, with him having a hard time to compete despite the growth

sterile cloak
# cerulean parrot The only people I think have a capability to make it to egghead that fast would ...

Momoiro Island is an island in Paradise. It is located close to the Lulusia Kingdom.[2] The island is filled with pink animals and plants. It is home to the Kamabakka Kingdom <--- from the one piece wiki, but it sames the that new kama island is near the lulusia kingdom so that means thay its right near egghead island, so I think that the chance of the general is more likely because i think that maybe one of the general or someone was tracking kuma or possibly whennvegapumk has made that call before a few chapters bsfore saturn was there he was talking to someome om the revolution army , which stussy is basically, she could have told the revolution army as well, i am think that they knew and just headed st8 there , but i dont think its dragon why would dragon come to save his son, when in the flashback he says that a child is a parent weak spot? I think dragon coming would cause alot of focus to be shifted from vegapunk to dragon and also I'm thinking that when and if they do escape it would be a chance to be followed by the marines

brave yew
#

Luffy and Momonosuke islands(?) not sure about the naming pattern there

cerulean parrot
brave yew
#

-> Michael Jackson and his moonwalk, and the character part of blackbeard's crew... he may come literally from the moon, be a "lunarian"(?), and (even though it'd otherwise already have fit to Jackson's white face) may have for such reference reason have a "moon-(like) grey/white face"

-> weren't the admirals real life inspirations chosen among japanese well-known actors or speakers or singers? If so, maybe the inspiration for the sun admiral may have been a "super-star" among them.

sterile cloak
#

Yea that is true, if it is a time to introduce the revolutionary army it would be now, but I think that he wouldn't, I don't think Saturn will be killed this arc, I think someone of the vegapunks will but also vegapunk will get away, and I think in elbalf or the new kama island would be the 2 islands they will go and I think the straw hats escorting vegapunk safety to the revolutionary army is what is going to happen, and with thT he meets dragon and Sabo, as well as reunite wiyh the goat bon-Chan. As the revolutionary army will tell them what is there plan , something like how gang bege and luffy was planing on the tea party raid to kill big mom

brave yew
#

Also, the blind admiral may be or become the arch-nemesis of the sun related top admiral and may due to his very blindness (normally a disadvantage) even have an advantage over him (quite possibly due to attacks based on brightness to blind other people in battle and being not only immune to that but already having plenty experience with how to maneuver around and deal with living blind, to handle such situations). If anyone, then surely this gravitation commanding admiral could "take him down". And the fact that he allows chance to guide his actions makes it more plausible that it could happen that he turns on the marine or specifically that admiral. They are quite alike polar opposites (except more celestial opposites)
^> and maybe the sun admiral represents hubris, and an ikarus reference could come up in that context, too.

brave yew
#

I think I've been able to narrow down Whitebeard's character closer: He represents a person with the mindset of someone in the "old guard" (and with his halberd, standing there like a guard, that's probably reflecting this). And it'd allow for his meeting with Roger to make more sense since Roger came up to him with a grand new idea and had to talk the conservative guy over, to be on board with that.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/old_guard

A (comparatively) conservative, reactionary faction that is more unwilling to accept new ideas than their peers are.
Collectively, the members of a team who have been a long time in a place.

pearl tusk
#

Dragon can control wind, on a boat with a sail, on an ocean. I think its reasonable to think he can travel across ocean faster than normal to say the least.

brave yew
#

mhm

#

btw do people in here know these things already and that's why it's ignored, because it's not surprising anymore, or(?)

mild spire
#

Does someone have a knife sharp prediction for what can happen next chapter

brave yew
#

If I'd know more and had gotten further in my deduction, then maybe, but not yet.

stray crest
mild spire
stray crest
#

They are definitely getting saved, I think also if Dragon was coming there would be lots of haki. Maybe Sabo like when ace saved luffy in alabaster

quick siren
#

the ship that goes to Egghead is Bartolomeo’s

brave yew
#

I wonder... so the one piece goal to achieve global friendship has to reach everyone, not just every island, or differently said: Any island, not matter how few live on it, and in particular even the case of an island that solely 1 person has stranded on and may be lonely. And there is many cases of such kind of a story that I think hasn't come up yet, and if that's the kind of island they find last, maybe such lonely person may have been searching for meaning and been granted a means to find it. But then it'd presumably have to incorporate laughing, or happiness. But it could also well be Luffy's final destination, namely a guy that cannot have friends due to being alone on an island.

timid badge
#

Just thinking here...

Maybe for some random reason, the Sunny gets wrecked and unable to sail again (for now). The giants arrive at Egghead and give the SH crew a lift to Elbaf after helping them escape the island. There's huge evidence that Elbaf has the Adam tree, which is the wood Franky used to build the Sunny. Maybe in Elbaf, the Sunny gets repaired and reinforced with Adam to endure the last bit until reaching Laftel or whatever is the final island.

I know, it's very different from other theories and maybe has less evidence to sustain, but after remembering the Adam tree, the Sunny and the possibility of the giants arriving at Egghead, it suddenly made a bit of sense.

Thoughts?

pure raven
#

I like it

dire sphinx
drowsy copper
#

Robin is Devon. The fact that she got wounded offscreen is connected to Lafitte kidnapping Robin and Devon replacing her.

#

Maybe Robin managed to severely wound Devon before getting hyptonized by Lafitte

distant slate
#

robin is vulnerable

#

Its either Smoker who was already headed to VP, G5 base alread near egghead. Now think about it man marked by flames was intro end of wano, now end of egghead would take peak op to another lvl. dont think big mom wants puddin yet (for elbaf) also think grandfleet is for mariejoa war

pale stirrup
muted valley
# distant slate robin is vulnerable

I sadly do believe we will have another Robin kidnapped arc. Too much has been emphasized on how she is the key to the SHs and being one of the most valuable people on the planet.

distant slate
tidal echo
#

Got a feeling smoker will appear on egghead

orchid carbon
#

Im thinking it might be one of the supernova. We've already seen Law, Hawkins, Bonney, Apoo, Kidd, Killer, Drake, and Bege. The only ones we have not seen since Saboady are Urouge and Weevil. The only person out of them that would even know the location of Egghead would be Weevil due to Ms. Buckingham. Weevil doesnt seem to have a devil fruit so I could see him surviving the Marine attack on him. Also if that is Ms.Buckingham's "child" i wouldnt be surprised if he has had some enhancements added to him

chilly thorn
#

but of course Robin is much more than her ability to decipher them

red jay
digital hemlock
#

Crocodile is luffys mum

low knoll
#

blackbeard is sogeking

brave yew
#

Oh! And I think I now know (nearly) exactly how Blackbeard was able to obtain a 2nd devil fruit power, and I think it's an involved trickery that requires multiple conditions to be met together. So if it's true that devil fruits spawn immediately (or shortly) after their users died, EITHER
(i) independently of if anyone exists that has the associated desire (which I strongly doubt being true, because then either not all kinds of fruits existed since the beginning of time or the planet, because then that'd made all of them accessible to ancient species already and the earth would be far in the past and dinosaurs would still exist normally rather than just via devil fruits), OR
(ii) as long as there's at least someone around with strong desire for it (quite likely, though in this case I strongly think that their distance to where the devil fruit user died matters, so that it'd spawn nearby the closest it desiring person, because otherwise, unless Blackbeard would have to at first be aware of the existence of the devil fruit or its ability and then also at the time have developed a strong enough specifically to it targeted desire rather than general greed for more, especially if blackbeard's greed for devil fruit powers would surpass that of anyone else's desire at the time for a given devil fruit, then it'd mean that where-ever any devil fruit user died, as long as blackbeard e.g. carries around a fruit basket, they'd just all fall directly into his hands, consistently, and he'd be aggregating them like crazy),

#

THEN
as long as Blackbeard can make sure that he's around and close to a devil fruit user when that person dies (so that he can feed off of them like a vampire or a vulture even if others killed them and then paid no attention to them anymore...) and has some fruits with him (so maybe one may also want to try to prevent that possibility, which could also mean that for him to have a fruit-spawning devil fruit user could be handy or important; which reminds me of the tale of snow-white and the witch with poisoned fruits in a basket which may come up) and desires that ability the most, then he can guarantee for it to spawn next to him.

And so it'd also make sense that Blackbeard covered himself and Whitebeard behind a curtain and for that to be important for him and his safety but also the safety for no one else figuring out not only this mechanism but also to not reveal to others his scheme/plan for amassing a crew of devil fruit users, because his acquisition of the power likely must go through "the momentary middleman" that is the - once present - to anyone nearby available devil fruit, and so if people would see that, they could try to get it instead, whereas if they thought he was able to directly absorb it, they might not even consider that possibility.

#

I didn't know that Blackbeard was a theoretical physicist though (to exploit this mechanism), but he also may have been told or gotten that info from elsewhere. And it really does seem that he knows very precisely how this devil fruit mechanism works, since he announced the special event that'd happen that'd surprise everyone, and so it's not smth he stumbled over by accident in Whitebeard's case (but it actually is not even possible but highly likely that if how he came to know about how it works wasn't due to obtaining the information from elsewhere, that he stumbled by accident over it by a devil fruit user dying close to him, and possibly killed by him, while at least some fruit was nearby, and if that's how it happened, if one could exclude the other case, then that may imply that he's obtained other devil fruits already and may have some more consumed himself already or distributes them to his crew members, possibly even just temporarily because with that trick he could always betray them and substitute them with new members, to give them the fruits), which makes him especially dangerous.

In either case, it makes sense now why Blackbeard was so adamant about getting specifically that devil fruit (but I guess that might actually be a good thing, since that may mean it's not his original genuine desire, likely making his greed desire weaker than it'd been otherwise).

digital hemlock
#

What is bro yapping about

brave yew
#

the solution for the mystery how blackbeard got whitebeard's power.

digital hemlock
#

Ok sorry

brave yew
#

Oh, but in all of that, I forgot 1 more condition that probably must hold, namely to ensure the devil fruit user doesn't die (which others trying that should do, unless they have an equivalent alternative desire to greed that allows inclusion or compatibility with other desires), which should be that the greed desire or devil fruit must come first, rather than as 2nd devil-fruit (either after a 1st other devil-fruit, or as 1st devil fruit eaten after a naturally emerged strong desire to give powers), so that it can take priority over the other desires, because otherwise, the other desires wouldn't allow secondary desires besides them.

#

Also, I'm pretty sure that devil fruits are involved, because otherwise, unless to use this power-absorption skill would take a lot of time or concentration, Blackbeard would have had no need (but maybe the intent to show off and make it a spectacle as if he were on a stage, at most) to hide the process, because he wanted to let the others anyway know what he managed to do (maybe to frighten them). At most, it'd revealed maybe what the process looks like, so that in the future if others would see its beginning, they may be more alerted but those aren't nearly as important reasons for hiding the process.

buoyant minnow
#

enel coming to egghead (not theory, but fact)

brave yew
#

interesting, but makes sense, given his plans requiring technology... I was wondering about space related stuff coming up; just not necessarily in relation to Enel just about now already, but maybe later more toward Marijoa bec of the glass bulb head celestial dragon folks.

#

it's good to know.

past crown
#

Does anyone play building block？

dark quail
#

I THINK WE JUST FOUND CATARINA DEVON

BABY IS ACTING WEIRD

brave yew
#

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYUVMwNPpGI
I wonder if his crew members only know that he can do it, or also why/how. The less they'd know about the details, the better for Blackbeard, potential future betrayal wise.
https://youtu.be/0wj-jAX1k_Q?t=75
Oh, maybe the fact that the ability associated to Whitebeard's conservative stance/trait/passion being one that shakes things up (which I've been wondering about how it'd fit as physical representation of that) may in this case (as maybe unique exception to the rule?) not represent conservativism but have been long ago ahead of time been chosen to be that in knowledge that blackbeard would say this and steal it and that the point was to put emphasis on this incident literally shaking up the world. I don't see him carry any fruit though but he may be hiding that.

dark quail
#

Burgess knows at least and I bet Lafitte does too. Burgess was out collecting fruits for bb

brave yew
#

oh, interesting, I see.

dark quail
#

Which I guess means he was killing people while he had a bag of fruit so maybe he doesn't know the nitty gritty

#

But Lafitte is way way way more important than anyone realizes.

There's a theme of bird people pulling strings, and there's a shit load of second in command being a bird person

Lafitte
Monet
Karasu
Marco
Doffy
Katakuri (pelican)

Morgan's

The goa birds from choppers time skip

The birds flying in circles

The bird peoples from the moon

King and the lunarians

... Robin

brave yew
#

I think Blackbeard may have a massive weakness though and be putting himself at risk maybe. Because if he ever for a moment may desire some specific other thing more than just greed, and for that desire to not fall into the category of accumulation of possessions, he may die. Now that made me think of the One Piece which he alo wants, but depending on if that's smth one can possess or not (which may need to be a physical thing), it may be his downfall as soon as it is revealed to him that it's not a physical thing even though in his mind it may be, and so in the moment it's revealed to him, if he's not prepared to fast enough drop his desire for it as soon as he comes to know of it not being a physical thing, then RIP. It makes me wonder what Oda may have planned here.

#

interesting

dark quail
#

Lafitte snuck into a warlords meeting in mg and got the drop on sengoku and Kuma

Birds are the kurozumi of the story, perhaps the slave class using their insider knowledge to grab the throne last second

brave yew
#

I'm sure with all the stuff other people in all the time have figured out, a whole lot more can be deduced combining all that (as long as Oda keeps it logical).

dark quail
#

Blackbeard's weakness is that someone he loves is being held hostage

There's an instance of three brothers with one being held hostage being made to do things but I can't remember

There is the kraken, who's name escapes me but was being made to do things by vander decken? By threatening to capture his brother up in the north where he's from. North is cold, bb from a winter island, whole kraken three hearts motiff yadda yadda

brave yew
#

birds would be fitting in that sense because if they are all spread across other crews, they gotta be communicating some way (and possibly safe from marine spies), and so they may need fast physical travel; they could share intel etc.

brave yew
dark quail
#

Oh fuck the most compelling bird argument is when they are leaving whole cake, and aladins shark wife got the SEA SLUGS to not report their information

In the main story I bet the SEA GULLS were the eyes and ears of the planet and they looked the other way for lili like they did for the strawhats and Capone to escape

brave yew
#

right there was smth like that.

dark quail
#

Plus with Morgan's being unbelievably powerful from just controlling the narrative and a part of the already canon underworld

#

Last strange thing on my mind: the ship that Morgan's flies in is a big teapot

The gondola used to get to the holy land is shaped like teapots

And there is CONSISTENTLY a large ceremonial tea pot in the throne room.

This points me back to Djinn being in lamps but in that branch of mythology is also the Garuda, bird winged peoples

brave yew
#

yeah

dark quail
#

Monet being sugars sister is something

#

And how she was the one to let in the doffy family after playing as a slave for YEARS

#

How she has Caesars eyes, and how she was snow while Imu is water

brave yew
#

hm yeah I'd have to refresh on a lot of that 😅
but it's intriguing!

dark quail
#

I hyper focused and sped read the series last year, skypeia and thriller bark got a few rereads. Dressrosa too.

It's all real fresh and there's a lot of things people aren't connecting

brave yew
#

Also of course doesn't really help toward figuring anything out that the show is so extremely dragged out, and with some fillers, but yeah.

hasty remnant
#

anyone have theories who is coming?
is that a backup?

dark quail
#

Here's a spicy one I can never shake

Kings name Alber, in german is a surname that means HE WHO LIVES AMONGST POPLARS

guess what kind of trees the Shandoran Holy White trees were?

Alber is also one of the 99 names of Allah meaning he who creates from nothing

dark quail
#

And I hope he brought Sabo

hasty remnant
#

ah, that's make sense

dark quail
#

The whole RA will show up if word gets to them that Kuma is on the island

hasty remnant
#

but a bit too fast isn't it?

dark quail
#

For the rest of the RA, likely, but I'm still convinced Dragon has a wind based fruit

There's also those deep sea dragon maelstrom currents that I imagine is why they are talking about how fastthe vacuum tubes go,

I think it's how shanks got to marineford fasterthan possible but idk if dragon and friends are using them

#

Where. The fuck. Is Catarina Devon

Where the fuck is the iron giant

I have a feeling that Kuma's last act will be to paw paw the sunny to Elbaph before the buster call flattens egghead

After all he is supposed to be protecting the sunny

hasty remnant
hasty remnant
cyan glade
#

i have a theory about akagami. i think he is the real villain. he was a part of roger's crew. he obviously knew abt the one piece from the start. but i think he knows that you can't find the one piece if you have a devil fruit(except luffy's fruit which i will talk abt later). that is why buggy accidently got sick before roger was abt to find one piece. and it probably is not a coincidence that shanks does not have any devil fruit user in his crew and he was gathering the strongest haki users just like roger did unknowingly and those with devil fruit powers in his crew were abandoned when roger was in raftel. i think he is hiding something that he knows abt the nika fruit and its power and when luffy ate the nika fruit he had no choice to make a sacrifice for him and give his left arm so that he exploit luffy later. but this might just be a baseless theory so.....

pearl tusk
#

Just doesnt make sense for shanks to be enemy. Bad story telling if so. Rewatch when shanks and ace meet and notice the look on shanks and crews face. Rewatch marineford and listen to what he tells koby after standing up to akainu.

pure raven
#

So Imu and luffy have the final fight and they fight for 29 hours straight and then luffy unlocks gear 6 and still is in a losing position BUT then suddenly shanks comes and saves luffy and sacrifices himself, after luffy sees Shanks was killed in order to save him, he unlocks GEAR 7 and uses the most broken move possible and beats Imu but the battle wasn't over The five elders were still left but then....Rocks appears apparently he wasn't dead..he beats the 5 elders and then kills himself
Luffy finds the one piece but little did he know....IT WAS ALL A TRAP, Akainu already found the one piece and appears out of no where and turns luffy into a donut
Zoro appears seeing his captain is dead and he becomes furious
He kills Akainu and obtains the real one piece...and the one piece was...a poneglif but Robin Died while fighting Imu so the one Piece was a waste to obtain, after seeing all this he got traumatized and Zoro killed himself by surrendering to the marine. THE END

hybrid python
#

yo you guys wanna rate my theory?

#

It's a simple one. Chopper will invent special rumble balls for Luffy. When Luffy fizzes out and gets hungry, he can pop one and it'll be like eating 100 pieces of meat.

pure raven
#

I have another One Piece theory
So Luffy gets ahold of the new time-time fruit user (awakened) and he goes back in time with Nami during JoyBoy's era
Apparently Joyboy WAS Luffy and he made the poneglifs with the help of the animal people...he wrote what came to his mind. Apparently he wasn't a fool, it was all an Act, once he finished with the poneglifs he shaped the Earth and got a bounty on himself after he finished with shaping the earth, he and nami didn't want to go back so they reproduced and the Kings and Queens of different countries were born. After Luffy set up the one piece he went back in time to see if anyone found it...and IT WAS ACE, BlackBeard got hold of gecko moria's fruit and got Ace back to life. Since he was special the sun didn't affect him and he escaped Blackbeard's rule. After he found the One Piece...it was written...This is Monkey D. Luffy and I got here first.
THE END

vast plume
pure raven
vast plume
#

Dear God Chopsuey

magic igloo
#

the marine ship which was destroyed by the "unknown" people was targetting the ship which left egghead 1 day ago, so its safe to assume that they are not very close to egghead. We can conclude 3 things from this

  1. The unknown people arent blackbeard pirates, becaue when we saw their ship it was very close to egghead

  2. The unknown people will take 1 day to reach egghead, and we cant expect any help from them

  3. The unknown people is not grand fleet because the battles in one piece dont take days to complete they are of one night or a day according to onepiece time, so if the grand fleet is the unknown people, their arrival to egghead wont matter because the battle would be already concluded before they reach egghead

#

so in my opinion someone very unexpected has destroyed the marine ship, lets wait for the next chapter

thorny echo
eager frost
pure raven
untold lance
#

the civs left 1 day ago but the marines only left recently. so 1 and 2 are mistaken i think

#

saturn sent out the marines after the civs before he teleports to island, probably only 30-60 mins ago or so in world time

brave yew
#

A few more observations: The invisible guy at the horror bark probably gained that ability out of the strong desire to hide from all the zombies and horrific monsters there, and invisibility obviously greatly helps there.

Then, more generally speaking, the worse off people or animals somewhere are in a region, so the more wild, un-developed their region is, rather than being technologically advanced, the more their desires should come from and be tied to survival needs, and consequently the abilities to be gained there should far more tend to be in aid of survival, increasing "fitness", evolutionarily speaking, which could mean that the most powerful, useful abilities would come up there, whereas at the most developed regions that got rid of most dangers and hence strong desires for survival, desires can broaden up to far higher diversity and that can also lead to degeneracy in the sense of the desires being able to become more and more arbitrary, niche, detached from abilities that'd help for fighting or survival. And that'd be quite interesting and ironic, because the celestial dragons etc. are off the best, and as long as those at the top cannot manage to steal devil fruits emerging in the wild where they may provide the best fighting abilities, long-term they'll be at a disadvantage.

And as a special case, if one thinks about it, given that devil fruits make their users weaken in water and unable to swim, this should have massive implications, restrictions for all the fish-folk, because it should basically be impossible for them to eat devil-fruits (and survive), even if they by their desires may produce devil fruits (except that not many kinds of fruits grow in the sea anyway, so there's also that, but at coasts it'd be more plausible), and maybe because Oda saw that, it might be why "fishman-karate" exists (though it's probably analogous to the marine's Haki). And so for fish-men to have such abilities, chances are that they came without devil fruit.

#

Also, I might've been wrong about identifying Jinbe's to his ability associated desire, because he can guide water currents, and that (either in more or also less specific terms) being able to guide smth (like water currents) may be at the core of his desire, but it'd at least make sense for fish that are limited in where they can travel to want to be able to control water currents.

#

However, due to chances being that desires arising at more developed, advanced, safe regions can be much more diverse, even if they may not be as directly tied to aiding competition or survival needs, due to the larger diversity, they should provide room for very effective combinations or re-purposing of them (if only people in developed regions would be willing to join into teams and not be too individualistic or egoistic) that shouldn't be possible to have in the wilderness, so that may be an existing trade-off. In developed regions, mass-psychology, culture should far more lead what the strong desires end up being, whereas in the wilderness it's more in response to raw natural threats from environments or predatory species. Also, regarding the "abstract direction" (if one can find such a thing, if it even exists) that the emerging desires are pointing at, I think in the wilderness they should generally be rather aligned, streamlined (as many dangers apply to many species the same way), whereas at more culturally and mass-psychologically influenced regions that should be less so, and so that can lead more to opposing desires, conflict among people in similar situations.

shadow kestrel
brave yew
#

Actually, so if the immediate spawning of devil fruits is a demand-based thing (where if no one exists with sufficient desire for it, it won't spawn immediately either), then from the perspective of gaining information, one could test if anyone exists with strong enough desire for a given thing by at first creating a kind of oppression or long-term major problem for some people and then escalating it and moving fruits there, to see if any devil fruit emerges out of them, because if not, then one knows that somewhere someone must already have such desire and have at least had it prior, or if around the same time, then stronger, and that the devil fruit exists somewhere already in the world (though it can be who knows where).

Also, I could imagine an evil kind of scheme where if e.g. the marine or some would know how the devil fruit mechanism works (like Vegapunk might), they could precisely aim for the emergence of specific wanted devil fruits via designing environmental circumstances for people where what they'd as result of that desire the most would be predictable. But then it'd be about making sure to capture the devil fruit when it comes up. And if it already exists elsewhere, then one could keep the situation up long enough and severe enough that once the user dies (if the fruit has been eaten yet), one could make sure it'd spawn there... that'd be a kind of next level Blackbeard scheme, and he might go for such if he had enough power or an empire, but he's the boss of the pirate island, so they may have such a thing there.

hybrid python
brave yew
#

-> maybe Ace represents revolution (more so than even Dragon, literally "the leader of the revolutionaries"), since torches are commonly associated with revolutions (alongside pitchforks), and there seems to be some torch symbolism there, so hopefulness or optimism doesn't seem to quite fit as well, doesn't match. But then what about that Dragon guy...
^> the devil fruits don't lie, so in the worst case, if there's any deception or plot twist intended, the devil fruits' hints should give better guidance...
^> maybe Dragon was a milder version of that, just wanting a change but wasn't quite sure how (or precisely towards what) things should change, and so he's merely the personified"Wind of Change"?

#

I think there's a chance:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_of_Change_(Scorpions_song)

"Wind of Change" is a song by West German rock band Scorpions, recorded for their eleventh studio album, Crazy World (1990). A power ballad,[3] it was composed and written by the band's lead singer Klaus Meine and produced by Keith Olsen and the band. The lyrics were composed by Meine following the band's visit to the Soviet Union at the height of perestroika, when the enmity between the communist and capitalist blocs subsided concurrently with the promulgation of large-scale socioeconomic reforms in the Soviet Union.
"Klaus Meine said in an interview that the time 1988/1989 in the Soviet Union was characterized by the mood that the Cold War was coming to an end, the music was the unifying factor between the peoples.[7]

#

Oh yeah, "children of tomorrow" (and focus on them) is talked/sung about in the song, so maybe I've hit the mark with this interpretation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KcRl1p2waM After all, Dragon's Luffy's father.

#

Though the more songs Oda may have worked into One Piece, the harder it'll get for me to figure things out because I really am not someone following that stuff actively, just passively...

#

-> I wonder... when "divine punishment" via the light pillars hit the island Sabo was on, it seemed like the clouds forming was part of that, but that shouldn't be within the capacity of manipulation of the arrogant admiral, and so either it was another one of them or part of the requirement for the attack to be formed (but then probably only if it were to be meant to be interpreted as crazy lightning instead), but now much rather it might as well have been a counter-measure attempt, and then e.g. by Dragon, and this time to protect Sabo, similar to how he saved Luffy long ago in the town Smoker was around in, and where Roger was executed, saving Luffy with lightning, hitting the clown Buggy iirc. And so maybe otherwise, without the clouds, the light pillar attack would've been even more devastating, and it probably saved at least Sabo's life.

#

However, if that's the case, then depending on if the arrogant light-ray related admiral had to also travel close to that island in order to be able to launch that light pillar attack onto it, or if he could do that "from his home office", he could've seen that someone interfered by creating the cloudiest sky, and then that could uncover/reveal the location of the revolutionary army (or at least Dragon's location) because for that, they'd have to have already been reasonably close. And that'd be a big deal if the marine would figure that out. At the same time, it bring up a dilemma where if they are close they may have to decide between revealing their current location and possibly saving Sabo (and others), or not.

lone zealot
#

not gonna read all that but damn youre cooking

brave yew
#

-> Maybe Dragon's also responsible for why the rivers go upwards onto the mountains that are the entry point to the grand line from outside.
^> And maybe even the knock-up stream that allowed Luffy to reach Skypiea may have been his doing...

buoyant lantern
brave yew
# buoyant lantern didnt roger also use knockup stream

might be? I suppose it may not have been Dragon then doing that for him (and I'm just hypothesizing anyway; I think there might've been smth about oceanic volcanic eruptions causing it, but maybe I mis-remember), but if it wasn't Dragon back then, if someone else had the ability, it could been someone else doing it then.

faint peak
#

Guys I got a cool theory for you guys! I just thought of it!

Maybe Uranus is a spaceship!

Maybe Nika built Uranus, and it gives off solar energy like the sun, and is like the Death Star! Which explains why Luffy jumps into the moon when he goes Gear Fifth for the first time!

This theory is inspired by a redditor who told me "maybe Nika was the ceo of a laughing company, which explains how he made everyone laugh and smile"! I think the way to launch Uranus into space is to actually have Nika launch to the Sky and actually use the drums of liberation to launch it to space! Maybe the Giant robot is a fragment of Uranus!

brave yew
#

Which explains why Luffy jumps into the moon when he goes Gear Fifth for the first time!
No, I've thought about what symbolism that is, and thought before that it might be a "man on the moon" (and then freedom) related message, but since Luffy is about friendship fore-mostly, not freedom per se, I think the best interpretation of it is to think of it in analogy to the moon-based awakening of power of the Minks, except in Luffy's case it'd mean his devil fruit power has fully awakened so that he can turn the environment around him to also behave like rubber so that it can be used to aid him.

#

However, MAYBE it could also be (another) reference of Dragon's or the revolution's overarching theme, and if that really is referencing the song "Wind of Change" ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KcRl1p2waM) or follows it somewhat closely, then it could be that sought after moment:

Take me to the magic of the moment
On a glory night
Where the children of tomorrow dream away (Dream away) / Where the children of tomorrow share their dreams (share their dreams)
In the wind of change

vast plume
#

Holy shit

small quarry
#

Was there a theory somewhere that related characters through the solfege? Like Mihawk is Mi, Lafitte is La, and so on

vast plume
brave yew
#

Well, you see, I like riddles and have been pumping out theories before on things like the Oldschool Runescape Crack the Clue 2 event, and generally it's a useful 1st step to put out all the ideas so that later by gathering more and more evidence and checking for how they should differ, what they might imply, narrowing it down. But then independently of that, theory-crafting in itself can be fun.

vast plume
#

Ahhh i see

brave yew
#

Yeah, I guess one could say there's 3 stages of progress: Either having no theory yet, or having a set of explanation theories and the solution is somewhere in there, or one has narrowed it down to the 1 right solution already. And so one can view the prior steps still as progress.

vast plume
brave yew
#

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_of_Change_(Scorpions_song)

"Wind of Change" is a song by West German rock band Scorpions, recorded for their eleventh studio album, Crazy World (1990).
"Wind of Change" was released as the album's third single on 21 January 1991 and became a worldwide hit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Piece
While working as an assistant to Nobuhiro Watsuki, Oda began writing One Piece in 1996.[6]
Well, at least in terms of chronology it could've been possible (and I do think I'm on point with at least that theme for the Dragon character).

#

Someone should make an AMV (anime music video) out of it, putting the right scenes together from the song and the anime to fit 😉

digital iris
#

Sogeking is usopp

brave yew
#

After all, Luffy's hair turns white (regarding his silhouette in front of the moon at the Kaido fight) just like that of the Minks. Maybe it symbolizes that he belongs to them, and maybe it might even be related to his name being Monkey D. Luffy.

#

So I think that has the most speaking for it (even if I'd also like the other song related interpretation).

#

And actually, if there having been a full moon at the time was in fact the reason for why Luffy was able to either awaken his ability fully, and/or to become giant and even more powerful, then we might find out about that in the future if that is so, because the full moon won't be around every fight, and so either Luffy then still will be able to become that powerful (possibly including the ability to affect the nearby terrain, which he may only then have), or not. And furthermore, if the moon does affect Luffy like this, then if they ever go to the moon, he basically should permanently be in this mode or be able to do so (and other Minks, too if they'd be up there as well).

brave yew
#

One might even go as far as to hypothesize that Luffy's character design could be inspired by Tarzan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarzan
I could see at least 3 reasons that could speak for that:

https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/Monkey_D._Luffy/Relationships/Family

  1. Luffy's childhood relationship with Garp was dominated by the latter's unorthodox, and brutal, training methods, such as throwing him into valleys, leaving him alone in dangerous forests. Dadan is the foster mother of Ace and Luffy and is a notorious Mountain Bandit. She was extremely reluctant to take on Luffy as she felt her hands were already full with Ace but was blackmailed by Garp to do so.

Luffy has never met Dragon, despite him being his father, and for a long time did not even think he had one. He has never inquired about his father to anyone, not even his grandfather, Garp. He also had no idea about Dragon nor about his position as a criminal and the head of the Revolutionary Army and was thus left confused by everyone's, including his crew's, shock when Garp revealed to them all that Dragon is Luffy's father.[26]

He made an appearance in Loguetown in order to save Luffy from Smoker and as his son sailed away to the Grand Line, he shouted towards him with a smile to go forth and achieve his desires. This is the closest Dragon has ever been to meeting his son.
Regarding that reference to Luffy's desires, that must be about the one piece, the global friendship again.

It was noted by Ivankov that Dragon tends to stare off into the distance in the direction of East Blue, where Luffy was born, acting as some sort of homing instinct.
For a moment I thought Luffy may have even been born on Zunesha, but surely not, unless Zunesha was traveling around there back then.

#

  1. The aforementioned moon-based awakening that could imply his closeness to the Minks, which would also be true for Tarzan, and that sun-god Nika silhouette has a similar looks as Tarzan.

  2. Luffy's training with the animals (that he also respected, as shown) on the island he was on with Jinbe after Ace's death (and surely it's not a coincidence that he's there with Jinbe and the halfway humanly intelligent animals... there clearly must be smth about Jinbe symbolizing anti-racism or respect between species as fishman himself). So Luffy clearly has had plenty exposure to and interaction with wild animals, so I can see how he'd also be affected by the moon to be transformed. It surely also helps explaining how he's willing and able to establish friendship with anyone. The world setting is said to be under the oppression by humans over all others, and for that reason, Oda surely wanted to separate Luffy (by at least his upbringing) from "normal humans" I guess.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarzan

His strength, speed, stamina, agility, reflexes, and swimming skills are extraordinary; he has wrestled not just full-grown apes, but also gorillas, lions, rhinos, crocodiles, pythons, leopards, sharks, tigers, giant seahorses, and even dinosaurs (when he visited Pellucidar).
And Luffy kind of did the same after Ace's death on that island with Jinbe, and:

Tarzan is a skilled tracker, and uses his exceptional hearing and keen sense of smell to follow prey or avoid predators.
Luffy (like some others though) also has that ability to sense danger or powerful individuals when they're approaching but still out of sight (like at Wa no Kuni when the plant growth admiral approaches).

#

Tarzan (John Clayton II, Viscount Greystoke) is a fictional character, a feral child raised in the African jungle by the Mangani great apes; he later experiences civilization, only to reject it and return to the wild as a heroic adventurer.
Tarzan is contemptuous of what he sees as the hypocrisy of civilization, so Jane and he return to Africa, making their home on an extensive estate in British East Africa[6] that becomes a base for Tarzan's later adventures.
They'd be close mindset-wise, too.

Jane
As an 18-year-old, Tarzan meets a young American woman named Jane Porter. She, her father, and others of their party are marooned on the same coastal jungle area where Tarzan's human parents were 20 years earlier.
Well, Boa Hancock on the island of women only also is on a jungle island.

He can communicate with many species of jungle animals
Not sure how much content there may be showing Luffy being also able to do so.

#

But that makes me wonder: Which came first? The idea to have Luffy's character be Tarzan to then give him the gum-gum fruit for long arms so he could swing around trees in the jungle, or for his character to be intended to eat the friendship fruit and Oda thinking friendship would be most suitably be represented by a bond, and turning Luffy's body into rubber. Given that friendship is central to the whole thing it should take precedence but still...

#

What race is Luffy?
Brazilian
Nationalities. In an SBS question, a fan asked what nationality the Straw Hats would be of if they were real. Based on their appearances, Oda gave the following as a reply: Monkey D. Luffy: Brazilian.
Maybe because of the Amazon rainforest? Seems like another piece of evidence for the theory.

Zoro Luffy and Usopp becomes Tarzan in the Upper Yard Jungle Skypiea. One Piece funny moments.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ge4_kQmiLTs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNyU6H6hGU8
It definitely isn't a coincidence that all the crew-members kind of do this initiation ritual to be also closer to the animals alike Luffy, showing that they belong.

brave yew
#

And I see now why the marine is so concerned about that particular... devil-fruit(?)... it actually doesn't quite make sense unless for him to have developed such a Tarzan-like character also came from him having eaten the "Friendship fruit", but if that were to be separate to him becoming close to the Minks by exposure in the wild, and isn't because he ate the fruit, then it'd not make sense, and so I think it must come from the fruit that he ate as kid. But either way, given what the moon apparently does to him, namely massively aiding him, if the celestial dragons have plans to establish a base on the moon or to venture out there, and Luffy follows them, he'd be a formidable enemy and great risk to their plans.

#

I gotta say I like that One Piece is going in that kind of direction, but surely rather by coincidence. I don't think Oda knows the true depth of important truth to this... (but if so, then there'd be good reasons to be upset about Oda if he'd known more about this and just never said any goddamn thing...). Either way, we'd fit well together, I think.

#

(Or the Japanese are aliens after all... and use sneaky culture influence tactics)

pure raven
#

I have a Theory on what the One Piece is ..
So when Luffy find the one piece they find a written script saying Congrats on Winning! would you like to restart?

brave yew
#

Goku Transforms into a Giant Ape for the First Time
https://youtu.be/_z11c_bTrgc?t=52
Though iirc Oda was inspired by Dragonball, and it also has that monkey-like youn Songoku react to the moon, growing in size and strength. And that was kid Goku, and Luffy while being an adult, by personality did stay a kid. But I wonder where they had it from in Dragonball; if they invented it there or (probably) there's some ancient japanese myths about that. At least for animals to grow large, or at least abnormally large animals, that comes up in Princess Mononoke as well.

short valve
#

never let bro cooked again

brave yew
#

https://ghibli.fandom.com/wiki/Moro
https://ghibli.fandom.com/wiki/Okkoto
And here we have this same theme as well: Large animals with white fur (with the wolf and its 2 kids among San, and 1 of the 2 boars of which at least the other has brown fur though), in Princess Mononoke. I guess Oda wanted to have One Piece belong to these other stories or was inspired(?)

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Tsukuyomi-no-Mikoto (ツクヨミノミコト, 月読命), or simply Tsukuyomi (ツクヨミ, 月読) or Tsukiyomi (ツキヨミ), is the moon god in Japanese mythology and the Shinto religion. The name "Tsukuyomi" is a compound of the Old Japanese words tsuku (月, "moon, month", becoming modern Japanese tsuki) and yomi (読み, "reading, counting").

What does moon symbolize in Japan?
The moon is a leading player in the Japanese imagination. In Buddhism, the moon has come to symbolize enlightenment, the latter represented not without reason with a ring evoking the former. And it's just a Buddhist legend that explains how a rabbit-like image was impressed on the visible face of the moon.20 Dec 2017
That helps explaining some more, like the white ring Luffy obtains during the Kaido fight upon awakening, but the lunatic Enel that wants to get to the moon with his arc also has a ring around himself, but with drums... similar to Luffy's heart drumming upon awakening, representing the "drums of freedom" (not sure exactly where I read that though).

#

Who is the god of the moon in Japanese?
Tsukuyomi – Mythopedia
Overview. Tsukuyomi-no-Mikoto is the Japanese god of the moon, a proud deity of order and beauty. The estranged husband of the sun goddess Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi spends eternity chasing her across the sky.29 Nov 2022
I wonder if Boa Hancock might have a similar relation-ship to the sun as Luffy's to the moon.

dark quail
brave yew
#

Tsukuyomi-no-Mikoto is the Japanese god of the moon, a proud deity of order and beauty.
So I guess if (as apparently it's the case), the moon is said to be beautiful, that'd mean since it's white, for those that want to be beautiful or like the moon, they'd want to have a white look, too, at least for their hair or fur, which may explain the white fur of various animal gods.

brave yew
brave yew
#

And for where animals during a full moon being at an advantage comes from, it's probably that they can see better and can flee from human hunters (then complaining to the moon when they notice they saw them and they realize why, when otherwise not), and from predators. And I guess while their fur wouldn't necessarily change colour, it'd at least be brighter, more grey if otherwise black if it had a colour but would just be not visible otherwise.

past crown
#

Does anyone play building block?

brave yew
#

you mean minecraft? this is also not the channel for that.

#

I wonder... though surely Luffy getting white hairs, powering up is due to his devil fruit, because otherwise if it were due to his closeness or exposure to wild animals, or being/behaving like tarzan, since zoro and ussop and sanji did the same (and maybe had a few more situations in the past like that), I wonder if for them that could've been sufficient to also turn into that, and Luffy was the only one outside where the moon could affect him, except not quite since Zoro also fought outside (though further down, to the side of the huge skull head of the fortress and so maybe that could've covered up the moon for him but I doubt it), but I don't think the others could do that. Otherwise, up to the whole crew or at least more of them could have become really strong if they'd get onto the moon.

brave yew
#

So actually, at least for all the devil-fruit-like powers that people genuinely could develop via passions/desires, unless the physics of the world prevent it more generally than only for the presence of multiple devil-fruits of the same kind at the same time (which though probably is the case), then multiple people could at the same time exist with the same kinds of advanced abilities.

brave yew
#

-> I guess Luffy's other desire (and possibly a more genuine one) is meat, which would make sense for a Tarzan-like character trying to survive in the wild, but it cannot really explain his ability, and would at most compete with it in terms of strength of desires (and might actually eventually become strong enough to be another desire that comes with special abilities, but that should then imply that people could have essentially 2 sets of abilities, but then only if 1 of them comes without devil-fruit, genuinely, and it probably cannot be in direct contradiction to their devil-fruit power's desire), but if somehow his desire for meat were how he developed a gum-like body, I guess for his limbs to be able to stretch being the associated ability to help him with that desire would be to catch animals and to climb trees and do liana swings alike Tarzan, and actually that isn't so far-fetched at all, but then what role would the devil-fruit play, because it cannot be just allowing already existing passions to have physical associated abilities be added to them immediately, and Luffy couldn't have developed much of a passion yet at that age (though I guess technically, if short enough lived animals can obtain such abilities, unlike it happens via them by chance eating a devil-fruit, then it should be possible at young age, too), and he wouldn't have needed to eat the fruit, and it'd just made him unable to swim then, though maybe it's just part of the kind of character he as part of the gained ability via the fruit develops; though it's kind of incompatible with his friendliness with wildlife.

brave yew
#

Actually, I came up with another really really sinister potential exploit, like smth for Blackbeard's taste regarding devil-fruits. You see, all kinds of desires normally would come about in ways to help the user, because normally they'd develop desires that'd help them survive or live better... however, I could imagine a dystopian enough (possibly even artificially by evil folks designed) region with folks that are so despearate and see no way out that all they anymore want would be to die. And so (i) I'd be interested in if Oda has considered that kind of thing (or if such a fruit or person that ate it may even exist), and (ii) in the case that such desperate ones were not (or not only) to develop such a desire to by solely genuine desire gain abilities that'd help them get to their desire, but if it'd allow the creation of devil-fruits of that kind, then I could see an exploit by creating it, then taking it, and then using it as means by which one can kill even the most powerful other devil-fruit users (including Blackbeard if he'd eat it, though then not necessarily as quickly as otherwise, because his ability in ending himself would have to develop enough over time, I suppose), by forcing them to somehow eat it. So yeah, pretty sinister.

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However, close variations of that would also be thinkable, if it'd e.g. about the desire to be unable to hear or see anything anymore (by torturing folks with noise or bright light-flashes enough.......), and all kinds of stuff of that sort, which would allow exploits by which to weaken normal adversaries.

But actually (and I'm a bit surprised I haven't thought about this before), any devil-fruit can be used to kill even the strongest devil-fruit user by force-feeding it to them, except for the case of Blackbeard, who though himself knows how to make devil-fruits appear nearby him, meaning he could amass even the most (otherwise) useless devil-fruits and think that their best use may be to kill powerful users with them. But in the specific case of Blackbeard, it could get even worse, because he would only need like 1 or 2 super-fluous devil-fruits, and (if he'd have the opportunity, like if no other opponent would be threatening him) after killing a devil-fruit user, if he'd keep another fruit around with himself, and I guess if the fruit's power would be one that he'd actually strongly desire, too (so I guess it'd be a bit higher stakes for him then to try such approach with a for him more valuable fruit), then right after having killed a devil-fruit user with it, by his strong desire for it, he could make it respawn instantly and go and kill the next one and so on. Now THAT would be the next level Blackbeard kind of move. And I suppose if he'd have a devil-fruit ability that'd be especially suitable for force-feeding others with fruits, then that'd probably push it to just about the worst it can get (outside of other powerful tools that exist in the world like sea prism stone objects etc., or just technology in general).

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Though I guess one wouldn't even need any way to force-feed devil-fruit users another fruit, but any means by which to get them to eat another one, if they know that it's one or not (so e.g. by deception, repainting a devil-fruit to look like smth else, or if it's an especially tiny fruit, to hide it among other fruits and just leave them up for grabs in the open) could already be enough. So there'd be surely quite many dangerous ways in how it could happen and be exploited, in principle.

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I guess there technically could also be the desire for devil-fruits to not exist anymore, but an ability associated to that may just make their effects be undone and act like the hardening Haki or so.

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Also, I guess for that advanced Blackbeard killer method to work where he'd use a devil-fruit he'd technically desire strongly enough to make sure it'd spawn nearby him than elsewhere, if by the desire having to be strong enough, he'd be forced to also eat it or try to eat it once he'd have it or be close to it, which would normally ruin this method, then there'd still be a way out for how it could be applied, namely with help from another person, for if one would tell them what fruit blackbeard desires (say e.g. that of Whitebeard, if it'd still be available, or after it'd become available), and then one sends that guy out to get it and tell blackbeard that they have it (somewhere), and to then agree to make out a spot where it's placed and for how far blackbeard could be locked away from it while still wanting it and wanting to get to it but just having been made unable to do so, and then if someone runs into the fruit trap, it'd spawn nearby blackbeard and could then still be unreachable to him but just close enough, and one could then repeat that process.

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And actually, regarding having devil-fruits emerge that might rather disable a person, I could see that happen much more naturally, namely for people with e.g. aspergers or autism where they are extremely sensitive to light or noise and would rather want to shut that off (and then once the sense perception inhibiting fruit spawns, one just takes it and gives it someone else).

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And actually, here's 3 further crazy exploit ideas:

  1. This one is very hypothetical, but anyway: Suppose that the only fruits that exist anymore are devil-fruits, and a new user of one dies and there's sufficient desire for it's associated passion, then the question would be: What happens? No desire (allegedly) can be completely removed (at least if desires for it exist), so the over-writing of a fruit (or additional passion being written onto an existing other devil-fruit) seems to be enforced that way, but the question would then be if one that way could make them stack, and thereby turn them into insta-kill double-passion devil-fruits (unless maybe if 1 of them is the one for greed), or one could move another desire out of existence, overwriting its fruit where then it'd be forced to over-write another fruit (which maybe could lead to an endless loop with rapid random fruit ability type rewritings happening, basically turning the world of One Piece into a Mario Kart game with the item boxes switching items lol), or well, the prior devil-fruit ability may then just be eradicated (until there's more fruits again, I guess).

  2. Elimiating all fruits on the planet, so that no further devil-fruit could even be created.

  3. This is basically (2.) but more sophisticated as a plan, where taking out all fruits is just the 1st step towards obtaining a whole mass of devil fruits all for oneself namely by keeping up seeds for plants that develop fruits and then just waiting until devil-fruit users all over the globe eventually die, and each time, one gets the devil-fruit.

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(I clearly have played too much Baba Is You 😅 )

dusky inlet
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Theory Logia Awakening is revolved around giant transformation the only Logias we have seen to be unique was Enel and his ability to transform into a giant manifestation of his fruit may it be the same with all the other logia users transforming into some elemental beast

brave yew
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However, regarding methods involving eradicating fruit-bearing plants, it doesn't have to be global, and smaller-scale versions of that would also be thinkable and could be more practicable, namely to e.g. prevent a devil-fruit to spawn on a whole island if one takes out all fruit plants there, so that at most the fruits that people there have or carry there could turn into devil-fruits, or one could leave 1 spot with fruits and control it and make sure one gets the devil-fruit.

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Also, given that (outside of devil-fruit independent desires and abilities to emerge) fruits are required for that mechanism to take hold, evolution on earth in one piece would've been the same as irl until at least the 1st plant with fruits emerged.

brave yew
#

However, I guess if there wouldn't be enough fruits (that aren't also already devil fruits)

But also, I mean outside of absolutely forcing a by a devil-fruit user dying emerging devil-fruit to pick a devil-fruit (because of only those anymore existing), one might be able to force that in a different way, too, namely by making sure the closest fruit to where it vanished by its user dying (or the by far closest fruit to the then next most the fruit desiring person being a devil-fruit) be a devil-fruit already, and I guess it at least could be tested to see if those are available or not.

But even outside of that, depending on how much plain luck is involved in the process of which fruit is chosen, as long as already existing devil-fruits are part of the candidate fruits that can be chosen, then it could happen that either 1 devil-fruit suddenly has 2 devil-fruit powers and associated desires (and could happen to become a deadly one), or if that wouldn't happen, then if a prior devil-fruit could that way be over-written and be forced to itself find another (then maybe nearby) fruit to become its new vessl as devil-fruit, then this would in principle allow for another exploit, namely if one knew that someone else is hoarding devil-fruits or has 1 (and if they happen to not have any fruits nearby, or are robbed of them or they are destroyed), then if Either
(i) one were to have both a devil-fruit user among the own team (or as hostage from anywhere else for any other unrelated devil-fruit) and additionally would have the next most this devil fruit's associated desire carrying person nearby (either as part of one's team or as hostage or by knowing they'd be close-by as of the incoming trick ignorant 3rd party person somewhere else), then by killing that devil-fruit user, one could force the enemy's nearby devil-fruit to be chosen and overwritten due to it being the closest to the next-most its passion desiring person that's nearby; OR

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(ii) one has a person around of whom one knows that they'd be the next most desiring person of the passions associated to 1 of the enemies' passions of 1 of their devil-fruit users, then by killing that enemy person (especially if it's 1 among the weaker ones, if one could aim for that), one could overwrite the enemy's openly hoarded devil-fruit, and if it's one that's more important or better than the weak enemy pawn devil-fruit user's devil-fruit, then it'd be substituted with smth worse now. And on top of either cases, if one additionally could make sure to have as team or hostage or nearby person be the to the by the enemy hoarded devil-fruit's passion next most desiring person, then not only one could over-write it but even obtain it, having it spawn nearby if one has fruits around.

And so because of above hypothetical strategy, I think something Oda may not have thought about (but would also only make sense once more characters in One Piece would deeply understand the devil fruit mechanic) would be that not only devil-fruits would be valuable to collect and watch out for, but also finding the people with the strongest desires that don't already have a devil-fruit (and maybe also cannot genuinely develop such ability, unless it's not mutually exclusive), for devil-fruit passions for which others, especially the worst adversaries already have the devil-fruit user.

However, a way to protect oneself against that happening to oneself, one could make sure to have a bunch of fruits always nearby (and I wonder if any kind of thought along those lines may have been the reason for why the strawhat ship had orange trees on it, and I guess it'd been funny if it'd ever happened in the anime that 1 of them suddenly turned into a devil-fruit).

pure raven
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So Luffy finds the last red poneglif and is on his way to raftale when suddenly...Blackbeard appears and tries to fight with luffy for the one piece when luffy was about to die, SHANKS appears out of no where and fights Blackbeard but shanks dies. After seeing shanks sacrifice luffy unlocks gear 6 and beats blackbeard
But the battle for the one piece wasn't over...Imu and akainu come
1 tap luffy but then Zoro get's furious he pulls out his 4 sword style and beats both Imu and akainu. After Zoro finds the One Piece he finds out the truth about the world and how disgusting it is...he kills himself but before dying he utters his final words...which were, "It was useless after all you damn chef"
THE END

thorny echo
eager frost
thorny echo
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No pls he will make imu and luffy reproduce somehow

vast plume
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STOP Opening the fucking Kitchen door to Ethan

thorny echo
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Right, take the key from him (mute the mf)

vast plume
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I second this

pure raven
vast plume
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NOOOOOOO

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Karma whyUsoppGrief

fallow bobcat
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Saturn theory: he's using some kind of stem cell type serum that he developed to regen. In which case, the trick might be to cauterize his wounds before they can heal (I know Franky already beamed him but let me cook). This would give Sanji Franky and maybe Kizaru ZoroCope a chance to be really useful plus it would mean that the other Gorosei won't become boring with the same regen powers

thorny echo
edgy fossil
hearty zodiac
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got a theory
if blackbeard has multiple devil fruits cause he has multiple personalities (possibly a devil fruit which is a semi popular theory) wouldnt that make luffy also be able to eat multiple devil fruit?
like the spirit of joy/nika is IN the fruit wouldnt that make the fruit itself is its own spirit and would make luffy still technically hasnt eaten a fruit?

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got no evidence to back it up but just thought about it about 2 days ago

pearl tusk
pure raven
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My new theory
So during the final fight Luffy vs Imu. Imu senses something in Luffy which reminds him of someone....It was Monkey D. Dragon...and Imu told luffy "Luffy I am your Mother" apparently Dragon and Imu fell in love and luffy was born but Imu was dangerous so Imu went away from the real world
So while they're having their fight Kaido comes out of no where and hits luffy with his weapon in the head with haki...luffy died...and Imu was furious so she killed Kaido in the most brutal way possible...but when Zoro heard the news..he got lost and visited Oda himself and made him bring luffy back to life and he agreed
While Imu was buring luffy she saw Luffy had awoken but luffy forgot that Imu was his mother so he 1 tap'd Imu and went with Zoro to claim the one piece...when suddenly Akainu comes out of no where...it seemed that Akainu was Imu's long lost brother
Akainu was furious so he made luffy into a donut
But Zoro was pissed so he killed Akainu and then married Sanji and they lived happily ever after.
THE END

vast plume
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This is

thorny echo
pure raven
young escarp
lone hedgeBOT
little portal
pure raven
little portal
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buttt super saiyan nika sounds goodUsoppSus

pure raven
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Damn you're actually reading it 💀

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I think the person who saved the civilians is god ussopp.

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And 8000 people working under him

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@little portal I made 3 more theories btw if you wanna read

little portal
vast plume
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Stop Cooking man

pure raven
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Fineee

vast plume
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NamiPray
Thank you

crisp sedge
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hey wsg im new to this server

knotty pagoda
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My theory is when luffy goes to find the last road poneglyph, he encounters Bartolomeo and Barto tells him that once he visited impel down to get one of his crew out of the prison and met Bon clay there, he tells that him and Bon managed to flee from there but Bartholomew's crewmate died as to protect them from an attack from Magellan, while escaping Doflamingo also got out of control as Magellan's acid melted his cage and his handcuffs while attacking. While they were leaving Bon Clay said he wants a break from all the pirate stuff so Barto lets him go.

Then on his way to his crew back Barto saw world government ships raiding Kamabaka kingdom, he tells luffy that Fujitora kills Sabo because sabo made "You can't see me" joke on him, one of the five elders kills everyone on that island with the help of other admirals ,somehow Dragon and Ivankov managed to survive but then the elder who killed all of them goes crazy and kills all other four elders, Imu, Dragon ,Ivankov and all other emperor's . Apparently Zoro and other of Luffy's crewmates were not with him and Barto said that he saw them too ... They all had a sudden cardiac arrest and died.

LUFFY was furious he went to the corner of the ship , Barto pushed him and then jumped in water with him and both of them drowned.
The one piece is that there is no Important piece is left in the end of anime. GGs

gritty cedar
brave yew
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But there'd be 1 more potential exploit, namely to figure out the to a wanted devil-fruit associated desire, then creating a situation for people so they develop strong desire for that due to their living conditions, and then snatching the devil fruit, and the same could possibly be done in masses for several wanted devil-fruit powers...

And then I guess there could also be a special case of a previously mentioned exploit regarding enemies hoarding devil-fruits and trying to over-write their devil fruit (if possible, rather than that case being handled differently) by another devil-fruit user dying for that and the next-most desire for its associated passion being had by someone close to the enemy that hoards such a devil-fruit, namely for if the enemy were to have hoarded the fruit to give it a chosen person they may wait for or try to find, or when they generally decide to eat it, to change it up just as or before they start eating it, if one would be able to observe that and time everything right.

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1 tap luffy but then Zoro get's furious he pulls out his 4 sword style and beats both Imu and akainu.
Yeah, Zoro has developed a bad sword-eating addiction 😔. But actually, maybe the character design choice for him to fight with a sword in his mouth might actually be related to his love of swords or fighting (maybe he has a desire to fight?); sword-eating at least actually is a thing (but just swallowing and for show in like a circus), and I guess one could understand it as a more "intimate" relationship between Zoro and swords, or maybe as advanced mastery in his handling of swords where even if they're dangerously close to his body arranged in weird looking ways, he's comfortable with that, like it being 2nd nature to him.

warm lichen
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Ok but what if shanks is actually imu

glad wave
warm lichen
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Ok but what if the one piece is luffy's fruit

inland cobalt
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Both of these things are basically impossible since it requires an item or person to be in multiple places at once

warm lichen
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I said I was kidding abt shanks

brave yew
# glad wave Ohh yeah cuz the world government always wanted that nika fruit but shanks alway...

tbh if they really wanted it, then either they don't know the mechanism for how the transformation of fruits into devil-fruits works, or they know it but such fruit already exists and prevents further ones from spawning, or someone else ate it and is still alive, preventing it that way (which I guess is the case with Luffy, and prior to that, they had the fruit, but before that, like you say, those 800 years, it may not have been), OR they could have set up a confined place with people designed in such a way that they'd develop a strong enough desire for friendship and wait until a fruit transforms into the nika fruit to just get it 🤷‍♂️ .

And that made me think of yet another kind of exploit or strategy one might try to employ, namely to gather all kinds of devil-fruits and just "get them out of the whole game/system", by making sure they aren't eaten, and aren't destroyed nor rot, using preservation methods like cryogenics, putting them in a place like the arctic or artificially cooling them down and possibly moving them to unreachable locations deep in the ice or in the sea, possibly even creating a kind of sea-prism cage so that if one gets to the fruit, one cannot leave anymore and if one eats it, one becomes weak and cannot use the ability (or maybe even shooting them out to space).

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But that makes me wonder about the durability of devil-fruits, like how long they last before they rot, and when they may not count as devil-fruits anymore, and what then may happen. I suppose the next closest fruit might turn into a devil-fruit, or rather the usual logic applies where the closest fruit to where ever at that time the person is with most desire for its passion is the one that is transformed into it.

brave yew
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And actually, I think Trafalgar Law with his ability to rearrange parts of physical objects so that they causally stay connected/intact but are just dislocated, he could do some devil-fruit shenanigans or trickery, too, if he had 2 of them, so that he could rearrange them to overlap and be like a killer devil-fruit that actually is 2 fruits where one cannot really just eat 1 without also eating the other.

And additionally (though now we'd really get into math nerd edge cases), Trafalger with his re-arrangement ability maybe could apply the Banach-Tarski paradox principle to make duplicates of people, devil-fruits, gold, anything of value, technological devices, or just mass to create mountains or increase earth's gravitation if he'd keep doing that long enough at scale, or filling everything up with water, or other stuff... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s86-Z-CbaHA 😏 (but even if such were in principle allowed/possible, it probably would require insane mastery over his ability).

And actually, technically, I guess since being in water is a problem for devil-fruit users, (i) it's interesting how the world already is barely anymore just an archipelago, almost as if someone in the past had already tried to drown everyone globally, and (ii) another strategy might be to trigger a climate crisis so the ice melts and more islands drown and devil-fruit users on them get into trouble. Or it could also be a means by which to try to either make devil-fruits rot (if water would do that to them), or if devil-fruits just stay intact, for those of them that are heavier than water, to make sure they drown and become less accessible to people on land, and more accessible for fish-folk that can breathe in water.

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But I guess it'd be interesting also to think about which devil-fruits may swim on water, because then given that surely many of them would be lost at the high sea e.g. during the chaos of battles over them among war-ships, then knowing where the general currents go might allow better predicting on which coast or so many devil-fruits may then end up at, to then just camp and wait there for those, but it'd be a filtered set of devil-fruits, namely only those that'd swim on water.

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And I guess generally speaking, all else equal, the more creatures/people there are in a place and the worse they're off, the more devil-fruits should emerge there, and so the most should be in the sea, available to the fish-folk, and it may explain why there's so many large sea-monsters. And then I guess they should be in the wild jungles, and regarding the kinds of devil-fruits, I guess that'd also mean that most should be about basic natural desires or animal-related.

brave yew
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I suppose another devil-fruit related trickery that people in the world of one piece could be doing would be to create a bunch of fake devil-fruits that are just close imitations, to then deceive others or do scams, or to hide a real one among many fakes ones, etc.

Though of course, generally speaking, those sea prism stones are also very powerful, especially if one could get a devil-fruit user to accidentally (or be forced to) eat such a stone, which should make them lose their abilities and be much weaker as opponent, which would already be very close to trying to kill them by making them eat another devil-fruit, except that sea prism stones appear to be not nearly as rare.

brave yew
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-> then again, Luffy's literally called Joy Boy, so if a friendship mentality isn't "directly available" for his desire, then joy may be the next closest from which to derive a friendship-related goal. And it may also explain their ship having a cat design, since cats, as utility monsters that they are, are known to bring people a lot of joy.

brave yew
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Hmm... given Luffy representing Tarzan (and him knowing how to fight in the wild) and Katakuri being a pelican in some way, I think it wasn't a random choice for Oda to make Luffy apply his gear 4th "Snake-Man" ability against Katakuri, and yeah his Culverin attack does look like an approaching snake, and apparently he also used it against Doflamingo ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8Ywi86ogmw ), and both are bird-related, and snakes are natural predators to some extent of birds, at least for the eggs, and so for other strong opponents representing animals in the future, from the point onward at which Luffy can use these gear 4th transformations to mimic wild animals, I guess we'll see him choose the in the wild associated predatory animals of the animals that his opponents represent. And furthermore, there might also be a martial arts reference in there, since japanese fighting styles also have animal references and differ, depending on what kind of animal one's mimicking by one's fighting style. And I wonder: At Doflamingo and Katakuri, which were Luffy's recent major fights, he was able to basically use 1 fighting style (I think) to beat them, but at Kaido it was different, and maybe that could be why Kaido's different moods for different fighting styles of him were introduced for different phases into the fight so that Luffy had to change it up and couldn't anymore repeat what he did in previous fights.

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It's intriguing how logically consistent Oda has developed one piece, though the logic by which the world plays out is obfuscated.

dark quail
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watching the new episode

god split himself into six dieties
luffy is whoever atlas is supposed to be, and likely who ryuma was as well,

bonney chopper and luffy are the same kind of being, they are automatons that fell to earth from birka, thgey are the researches.

luffy walks into a room called fashion and started pressing a combo of red and blue cube buttons, These are the poneglyphs.

I think the poneglyphjs are like memory cards or at the very least, keys to print entire kingdoms if ythey were destroyed

but big enough beings came to thep lanet that it was more or less printing dishes of food

so many kingdoms are round, dressrosa is a damn pizza

the kuma they run into reminds me orlumbus or whitebeard

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the claws that came off the walls and were putting people in clothes, are like saturns horns, or at least bugs

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damn, Bonney got the jump on Luffy

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Doc Q is related to Yorki somehow and i dont know how yet

swift bolt
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little mini theory here

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what if the unknown party arriving at egghead is the man marked by flames, he wants the sh poneglyph rubbing and knows that if the straw hats are taken down by the wg the rubbings will be hidden or destroyed. he was fine with kid and law falling in combat because they fell to other pirates so their rubbings probably still are around just in different hands, he can afford to have bbp or rhp takes the poneglyphs but not the wg

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(bbp meaning blackbeard pirates and rhp meaning red hair pirates)

dark quail
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Oh, i think i just pieced it all together, the big scheme that is to be dispelled if the world sees the real sun

the big spell over the world like sugars toys

the big spell like Geckos soul pocus

its water vapor

everyone who is part of Imus great lie is nothing but water vapor with a soul piloting it and being held to the laws of physics by the computer that projects them,

its light on water vapor,

the vapor hologram cannot maintain its form in the water, the boundaries get blurry, the computer doesnt know how to discern where the water in the vapor ends and the water in the ocean begins so it cant clearly project the hologram

im guessing this means anyone who eats the fruit, is dying and being replaced by a vapor version of themselves with the newly aquired physics bending rules,

if imu is controlling water, then the vapor could absolutely interact with real beings with the same density and force as long as imu is strong enough and good enough with her water powers

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not that im convinced, thats just the thread and thumbtacks of the thought i just had

swift bolt
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what do you think of my theory

dark quail
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christ, and luffy being the perfect counter to Kami Enel by being rubber to electricity

rubber is also the perfect counter to water. Maybe thats why luffy can punch through anything, because its all just water being allocated to peoples different souls based on the physics their code says they should have

dark quail
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hes a former admiral, white dragon, and i think being marked by flames is likely that hes been to the artificial sun and been struck down, but i digress

i dont think its for the poneglyphs, i think hes here for Kuma , Luffy, Bonney and Vegapunk (remember that vegapunk called dragon before this all went down)

I think that Dragon has the last poneglyph the same way that Kaido decided to be the test for anyone coming along proclaiming to be joyboy. He knew he wasnt joyboy and was going to make daamn sure that nobody lower than him would take the title.

brave yew
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https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic.wikia.nocookie.net%2Fonepiece%2Fimages%2F4%2F42%2FPoneglyph_Division.png%2Frevision%2Flatest%3Fcb%3D20171105022659&tbnid=-yorF5rmj0_ElM&vet=12ahUKEwjSwPKOjf-DAxUK7rsIHbYeCdEQMygFegQIARBf..i&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fonepiece.fandom.com%2Fwiki%2FPoneglyph&docid=Joiznf-1ahoBuM&w=1018&h=1441&q=skypiea road poneglyph&client=firefox-b-e&ved=2ahUKEwjSwPKOjf-DAxUK7rsIHbYeCdEQMygFegQIARBf#imgrc=-yorF5rmj0_ElM&imgdii=nFudYl_EXmUBmM
Imagine if the 4th red poneglyph is just a painted over blue one that they already saw. Would be another kind of trickery that could happen.

dark quail
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fuck that would be funny

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bucket of paint derails history for 1000 years

brave yew
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yeah lol

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but then again I mean for finding the last island, it shouldn't be about the colour but information content, so well... if the information (even if one would already have it) would still be encrypted, not direct about it, then if one doesn't even consider a hidden message if one combines the 3 red ones with another normal one, one might never realize it.

swift bolt
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did someone say...paint?

brave yew
#

😄

dark quail
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holy shit im so close to lvl10

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if it is a matter of cardinal directions then yes, you only need three technically,

but theres no way its not going to be something like, "gotta be drunker than humanly possible and lost"

tulip crater
dark quail
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could also be timing, or weather conditions or needing three places active simultanioiusly like florian triangle

brave yew
# dark quail could also be timing, or weather conditions or needing three places active simul...

yeah, I suppose depending on the tides, a flat low level island may be drowned or not, depending on that. Also, regarding the One Piece, I figured that if it's about global friendship (and I mean if not, then what's it even good for, outside of maybe being able to break out of that 800 year cycle stuff, but then if roger found it and did hide it, he could've already done that, presumably, or if not, if he'd known what'd been further needed, he could've done things differently), then the strawhats may still have to go to all those islands that they individually, separately were sent to by Kuma.

brave yew
#

So I might have a more specific prediction regarding the Axolotl devil fruit. If it's meant to be more involved in One Piece, assuming the strawhats didn't take it, which afaik they didn't, and if its only purpose wasn't to showcase to any of the characters or to the viewers that devil fruits can emerge or to give a vague clue on how it happens, but if more is planned for it, and if it wasn't just meant to be taken by the slime character to heal itself, then given that next to Egghead island is another island of the marine and the children from Punk Hazard were brought there, they may have taken the axolotl devil-fruit with them, and so it may be there and either they keep it or someone there ate it, or if not, then if on Egghead island, a strawhat crew member that hasn't eaten a devil fruit yet (or someone else that may become their friend) is deadly injured, it may be there to save their life later. And so its existence could be a form of reward or pay back for having saved those kids.

brave yew
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It looks like they got some kind of head-set phones (in the anime on Egghead island), so I wonder if the others just get there to get those, too, maybe they'll already be able to communicate.

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actually a surprisingly interesting episode. normally maybe about 1/3 of as much content is progressed.

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if only I could split myself into 6 people...

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oh, it must then be vegapunk's desire and associated devil-fruit ability to help him be more productive....

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So I suppose for that to have a chance to be true, none of the 6 (or well, maybe 1) is allowed to have a devil-fruit power, or the death-condition would be met.

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And it seems like (though I know it's been shown before but didn't remember), Blackbeard's "ship" is a huge raft. In particular it in part consists of trunks of huge trees that he probably cut down for it, maybe indicating his lack of care or respect for mammoth trees or forests, doing deforestation if needed for his purposes.

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basically any choice for any element almost must have a designated meaning to it, given how densely packed it is with logic (though other, more common sense logic aspects either intentionally or if it'd otherwise been just too much to design the world of one piece seems to have been foregone as trade-off).

#

I suppose blackbeard's at law's ship for their poneglyph info and/or law's power or to just take his crew out.

#

it'd be quite tragic if smth happened to his crew just after that success, and a bit ironic, almost like the consequence of hubris for continuing alone, but I could see them going down happening, to make up for the recent major success so that viewers don't think from here on it'll just be easy going.

#

When Luffy met Law at the marine HQ major war, which was the 1st time, Luffy was taken away by Law and cared for, and he did a surgery to fix Luffy up, and then at Punk Hazard and now at the Kaido fight, he helped out the strawhats, too, so Luffy's owing him, and so I think he'll get into major problems and has during the Doflamingo fight already once lost his leg but was able to fix that again as surgeon he is, but maybe to combine this with my considerations about the regeneration-enabling axolotl fruit, maybe it'll be involved in someone taking it (or having done so already) and being brought to Law to regenerate him from whatever may happen to him due to blackbeard; it could end up being a way to pay him back.

#

I wonder if we'll find a Zuckerberg or Meta reference, because given those explosions in the city on Egghead, the people there cannot be quite real or be quite physically there, and chances are that another devil fruit power's at play based on people's desires to be in a meta-verse, to allow what happened to make sense or be compatible.

#

So I guess the idea or plan was that (first they get smth to eat and new clothes like every time to fit culturally, and notice the augmented reality) luffy by his playful attitude would get himself into trouble (after also meeting "vegapunk"), fleeing from the dog which surely is connected to or communicating with Kuma appearing later, but I wonder if the whole place they were at is just a charade created for them, because if the people hadn't appeared before Kuma approached, it'd been clear earlier what he was here for.

#

I wonder if that vegapunk girl was in on it; she said bastards at first, then plays friendly, maybe to get some info, too, and says she has to be violent and flies off, but before that, she welcomes them, and I'm wondering if that was genuine or manipulation so they'd have a sense of false security.

#

maybe the dragon and mecha fight's also just there for introducers as distraction, and vegapunk there looking like a friendly girl could also be about false security. Given the situation, surely psychology is accounted for; only thing is that she's so large but otherwise she'd give off the impression of not being a threat.

#

Actually, I think in principle, Luffy would have an extremely useful application of his ability that hasn't even been explored yet, namely stretching his eyes or ears really far to see extremely far or hear far better...

#

or well, despite him not having done that, or not "officially" so, given that he basically can sense people approaching from far, one might as well have swapped that with him stretching his eyes and ears at times to be mindful of the nearby region, if one needed/demanded a more in-logic explanation for it. But for him to be doing that all the time might just be off-putting from a viewer/reader perspective and could been skipped over. But then of course that'd not explain how others can sense remote things, too, though for Nico Robin it'd be easy to explain as well.

#

Not sure if it's a good sign that the CP9 apparently wants to kill vegapunk. it could mean they aren't close and that vegapunk may be an imminent threat specifically due to the strawhats going there atm, which then likely means vegapunk would have concerning info to share with them which they may wanna prevent. But then I also wonder how much of such danger vegapunk himself may be aware of (maybe depending on how much he'd have to go off of to deduce such risk), because if so, unless he'd either way be neutral to the strawhats, if he'd have a positive attitude towards them, then if the large girl were part of him it'd not make sense for at least her to have sent Kuma after them, I think (unless they resolve it as having been a fake attack, a prank maybe), and then that'd mean the robot Kuma or maybe a whole AI governing the city autonomously might be its own entity acting by its own intentions. However, if that's the case, then likely vegapunk invented it in the first place or at least would know about it and would've warned/informed them about that, I'd think, and so since that didn't happen, what's happening is either overall within vegapunk's will or he's not in power, or he's against them.

#

Actually, the huge augmented reality ice-cream dish may have been a honey pot by which to attract intruders and then from the point of interaction forward, the rest is theater.

#

And that dish's presence should be more important than the dragon and mecha, since it's far easier to reach and it has to be that to be a trap, but if it's not that but just art or smth, then the purpose for putting it there would be that others could figure out the augmented reality concept easily, too, but to reveal that this is a thing, from the perspective of whoever is in control of the place, would seem like a mistake or some costs in terms of giving info away.

#

Maybe it's an AI trying to make it seem as if vegapunk were still in control; also when the girl said she had to go do violence, maybe she meant their ship (or even yet another intruder).

#

Or it's literally just vegapunk's playful character part that wants to have fun playing a realistic game and is totally sunk into focusing on fighting dragons, mechas etc., not wanting to mind other things, but then that'd compromise the point of being more productive and she'd have no right to complain about lacking funds for weather research, but that might at least make most sense of her saying such an odd thing as to do violence before departing.

#

Imagine Dr. Vegapunk being a gamer...

#

However, if the whole place were set up as trap, then if that were the true intention, strawhat and the others either could've already easily been captured just based on the food they ate there into which one could put anything e.g. to put them to sleep, or the clothes that they so carelessly trust could act on their own, which may not necessarily have to happen immediately, but could happen any time, and there could be an advantage in letting them think they're safe for longer, for more info about how they'd react to better see what reasons they may have for that.

#

So this better not been a trap (especially not one that fails), because then the place isn't all so smart.

#

However, another interpretation would be that the huge girl may have known what'd be coming and wanted to help them and may herself have to hide from Kuma, but created those people as animated augmented reality elements (just like she did earlier), to confuse Kuma (or the pacifista rather).

#

But if vegapunk wanted to talk to the strawhats about smth important, he could've already done so, via 1 of the "satellites", but maybe they have been "hacked"? But that'd not make sense for him talking to the mecha one out at the sea... very odd situation either way

brave yew
#

So that Helmeppo guy asks that marine commander for help to get Korbi back (from blackbeard surely; he must have him as hostage and just encountered law). I suppose the marine may come and intervene if there's a fight, and if Law went to another island, it may as well been the marine's island.

#

Well, I suppose if all those 2nd ranked people in different pirate groups all are bird-related, and Zoro just took down "King", 1 of them, if he was part of the CP9 (which that pegasus or flying horse guy of blackbeard's crew may even be), then that could've alarmed them.

#

But the target of the CP9, like last time, must be Robin, since only she can decipher the red poneglyphs for the one piece... but then why plan to kill vegapunk or focus on that(?)

#

Probably vegapunk has some important info to tell them and Robin must be almost the only person to whom to talk to makes any sense, since she knows more about the world, but franky having read vegapunk's old list of ideas would also be a candidate, or maybe luffy if vegapunk had smth to say about his one piece plans. And so the CP9 may be about preventing that.

#

But then they should have a hard time in trying to do so if it's just about information transfer, bec even if vegapunk were dead, he could've ensured to get a message across some way...

#

However, the 6 "satellites", if they all are 1 person with devil fruit ability, they should be someone else or vegapunk would have no reason to communicate with them which he did, and that'd open up the possibility again for vegapunk having a different, science related devil fruit ability. And it'd still been possible for vegapunk to have been (by his desire to have more workforce, to clone himself) the cause of that devil fruit to emerge, but that doesn't mean he himself had to eat it, if someone close to him could instead have done work for him, instructed by him (but I guess for that to make sense would mean the cloning wouldn't create copies of smart people to in total have more of them, if that'd been the main point behind it).

brave yew
#

So... maybe there may be a pattern going on. Vivi kidnapped, her dad dead, probably was blackbeard, or otherwise while someone else did that, and surely it's in relation to the strawhats, with smth about them in mind, blackbeard went to boa hancock though I guess his plans failed there, and now his next pray would be Law. 3 people that the strawhats would be friends with. But if Vivi's kidnapping were his doing, then other than in the case of Law or Hancock, it couldn't have been for devil fruit power reasons but must be to have a hostage, I think.

slender fulcrum
#

Tbh if the WG wants to kill anyone who hear about the void century then jist spread the news to the world they wont kill everyone and they'll be busted

brave yew
#

However, given that the CP9 now is after vegapunk, they may have killed cobra before and kidnapped vivi.

slender fulcrum
brave yew
brave yew
slender fulcrum
#

You're in MANGA theory channel so everything you're speculating have already been answered in the manga at this point ^^

brave yew
#

not everything

#

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Piece

In a television special aired in Japan, Oda said he would be willing to change the ending if the fans were to be able to predict it.[5]
An interesting challenge 👀

#

Depending on what it canonically involves, I may try to predict that.

#

@slender fulcrum

Enel's Great Space Operations (エネルのスペース大作戦, Enel no Supēsu Daisakusen?), ch. 428-474 (38 installments)
Enel uses his flying ship, the Maxim, to finally reach the moon; which he believes to be the Fairy Vearth. There, he encounters weird creatures, both living and mechanical, while discovering about the ancient connection with the Sky People and Shandias.

I suppose this already happened in the manga; I wonder if it can be prevented in the anime.

slender fulcrum
# brave yew not everything

I mean, the event you speculated have already a conclusion in the manga and will be shown later in the anime. I dont know what kind of debate and speculation you want to start here be we already pretty much knew what happen so we cant pretend we dont and try to speculate with you...

brave yew
#

well not necessarily, if Oda can change his mind and be serious about it.

brave yew
#

of all what I wrote above from the last days.

slender fulcrum
brave yew
#

well I don't mean that stuff. you should've read more carefully. I didn't ONLY talk about that stuff

#

I talked about the one piece and many other things.

dark quail
#

heres something fun

in adition to lili and lilith
shaka and Shanks are connected

When cp0 first shows up Shaka says

tell them to give us their supplies and leave

within a chapter or two Shanks says the same thing in the same pose to rockstar to tell to the kidd pirates

tell them to give us their poneglyphs and leave

slender fulcrum
twin mantle
#

I AINT reading alldat from Aran Jaeger

vast plume
#

What happened to bro
Nvm

drowsy aurora
#

aran jaeger you better go to reddit spread all these theories of yours

frozen birch
#

like ILN said, a lot of the stuff you wrote here has already been addressed and revealed in the series

brave yew
frozen birch
brave yew
# drowsy aurora aran jaeger you better go to reddit spread all these theories of yours

I'm not sure if you are intentionally kinda joking and aware of my reddit post ( https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePieceSpoilers/comments/19f5b5y/theory_of_everything_for_how_to_derive_how_the/ "Theory of Everything for how to derive how the World of One Piece works, and its associated implied Interpretation for revealing the Central Meanings in the Symbolism that's used"), but in case you didn't know yet, I guess here it is, but yeah there's more to put up there or add to it since then.

brave yew
#

I am very much aware that it'd be an unusual request or thing to want, but trust me, I have good reasons for preferring that, for Oda's own legacy with one piece, too

frozen birch
#

if you are operating purely on headcanon hypotheticals , then I'm not sure you'll find many who want to engage with these ideas

brave yew
#

hm? I mean a whole lot of it was about the actual content of one piece and reasonable interpretations to make sense of it.

timid lake
#

so long

brave yew
# timid lake wth is this theory

well yeah, and I have since then derived much more than what's already there... but I gotta get to writing it down some time in a comment there probably, unless I'd make another post. I don't like making many updates with little new info, I prefer fewer with more, so it's more all in 1 place, but at the same time, people likely overlook new comments in flooded away posts, but then again one could in principle refer to them later again or point other folks that do theorizing to it.

timid lake
#

OK

drowsy aurora
#

youre like the crazy agent guy from prisonbreak making all dots connect

#

i put your reddit post to gpt and this is what i got :
Your theory suggests that Devil Fruits in One Piece originate from individuals' strong desires and passions. The birth of the Axolotl Devil Fruit in Punk Hazard reflects the desires of experimented-on children. Dr. Vegapunk confirms that Devil Fruits come from imagination or strong desires. Devil Fruits are seen as an unnatural form of evolution, leading to the sea's hatred for users. Once desires are fulfilled, Devil Fruits might cease to exist. The theory speculates on the ancient origins of Devil Fruits and their connection to sea monsters and fish-men. Raijin Island may naturally produce Devil Fruits due to threats like lightning. The size of Brook's crew dying from poison provides an upper bound for Devil Fruit emergence requirements. Luffy's X-shaped scar represents the impact of anger on friendship. The theory provides a unique perspective on the narrative's underlying themes.

frank dawn
#

dam...

#

MY THEORY!!!

#

Luffy drops dead when he finds the One Piece bc of gear 2...I'm big brain ik

glad wave
#

He’s just get that Gold Roger disease and then boom

plain barn
#

I have a theory that Sanji and his vinsmoke siblings were supposed to Seraphim

#

I also theorize Luffys dream is to go to the moon. Something I assumed the moment the chapter came out

brave yew
brave yew
small crow
#

Do you guys think everyone in egghead Island will go into the future and it will cause a reversed time skip? People in Egghead stay the same. And everyone outside of egghead Island had a time skip

dark quail
#

nah, im gonna go occams razor and i think kuma is going to pawpaw punk records to elbaph

i mean thats where the books from ohara went

#

im also certain roger had a disease and it wasnt a "im gonna die so fuck it lets do this" it was a "This child i found in a chest gives me reason to believe that the panacea exists so i might not have to die"

#

it however was either never existing, already gone, or not ready yet

with how the wedding cake goes with big mom im going to guess it DID exist but was destroyed, with the major lie of "dont worry mama we have a backup cake on this other island" is roger saying that the one piece is real,

Perospero straight up lied in order to buy everyone a little more time

Roger fucking lied

The one piece will be real but when he went to raftale and when he said it on the stand, he was lying

#

i think it is a heavenly liqour, Soma, who is also the name of the god of the drink, having sprung from it like thoth came out of the Egyptian book of knowledge, a personifacttion of that knowledge,

Soma is also said to be stored in the moon as the gods flask, and it is ever refilling,

when big mom ate everyone on elbaph, it was while she was eating SEMLA and i think oda is showing us a parallel here.

#

its also gotta be like the fishman island treasure, meaning it can give you power past where you should be able to go but at the cost of your lifeforce

Holy Sake is also mentioned by Dorry and Broggy, the Liquer of the gods!

#

in the very first chapter, shanks offers up the last bottle and the mountain bandit says

"what good can a single bottle of grog do"

mf its gonna unite the world in a sakazuki cup

#

Heres the thiiiiiing.

Luffy doesnt really like to drink. ceremonially? sure, but high proof liquer does something else

that shit explodes

poetically the most beautiful thing would be for luffy to use it to obliterate rreverse mountain and create the all blue

although since he is going to have to destroy fishman island at some point i wouldnt be surprise to see it happen to MarieJoa

#

context points to it being at raftale but just not being done yet.

Especially if it has some kind of information storing capabilites, it would explain why they all laughed, and how roger knew he was too early

#

makes me think about how the robot ran out of power when it climbed up. almost like there wasnt enough fuel or the fuel was too weak

#

if shanks was written off for dead by his father during godvalley, and he was put in the chest by sibling like corazon did to law and like reiji did to sanji, and shanks hometown is known for brewing

i think shanks is singlehandedly the reason 1 roger went on the trip and 2 why there will be a one piece

especially if Enels whole thing has a meaning, having found the treasure beforre the main characters thanks to insider knowledge the previous kings didnt have and the sheer brute force of his fruit power

#

honestly, I think Imu (the person pretending or inhabiting imu more likely) took power after godvalley, the same way enel took power over skypeia after completely obliterating birka

I think Imu then used their specific power, or newly attained power coupled with insider knowledge to brute force find raftale

#

The one piece either didnt exist and will be made like big mom and the wedding cake

or it will be like Enel, having found the treasure and taken it before the main characters find it by using the clues from the ancient languaage

#

of course you could take it further, and like with Enel, he found shandora but he didnt find the bell, the true treasure of the shandians

Imu might have found Raftale and taken it for themselves but they might not know about the true one piece, writing it off as in their posession because they have the whole island, but it could be completely forgotten or believed to be a myth by Enel/imu until they have reason to think otherwise thanks to the work of the main charactersj

#

But then again, Imu has and knows about the strawhat in the freezer which is likely what the bell is an analog of, the ingots being an analog of regular strawhats

#

we might be in that slice of the skypeia story where Enel has found the bell thanks to his conversation with Nico Robin

Maybe saying the one piece is real is like enel learning the bell exists or rather has a better guess thanks to what robin says.

#

ultimately, i want the one piece to be taken by imu just so Luffy can say

"i dont care about a plan, about roger, about history, about kingdoms,

That was my treasure, and they took it, where, the fuck, are they"

and continue to carry out the plan with brute force instead of the magical mcguffin that has been sought after

#

oh, im level ten, i have thingssssss to show yoooooooooooou

#

dragon is one of whatever saturn is

image.png
#

this might just be a fun easter egg,

but knowing that Monsters is canon and focused on lately thanks to netflix, this might actually mean something

image.png
#

heres a fun one,

im pretty sure these are the planets or moons that we see on the ohara globe. also the levels of impel down, but i think theres a dressrosa image thats similar too. the fireworks one is just a cover art

image.png
#

it also is reminiscent of the hoof of the soaring dragon

#

I personall think that imu is a conglomeration of people, with vivi to bve nexxt but i think that Olvia Robin either survived or was saved on ohara. and this is likely my biggest proof,

image.png
#

also olvia is the only person that nico robin talks about to Aokiji before he sends her off down the ice path.

olvia matches a lot of lunarian trrademarks, so maybe she just survived the flames, or is more durable,

but i think starting with lili, imu has been needing a new body once a generation

#

the first time nico robin talks to the strawhats, she shows up out of nowhere, on the upper deck of the merry, sitting on the fence looking down on everyone below,

she steals luffys strawhat

its all very visual imagery of imu being up in the tower with posession of the big strawhat

#

also the way aokiji talks to the strawhats about robin being a problem and to not be around her seems soo so sooo much more dire than we have ever seen him react to anything. mans knows something

#

the chapter right after has the first image of an umibozu, a giant pitch black creature with nothing but eyes to be seen that asks for a barrel when you are at see (japanese yokai that imu is likely based off of, the giant sloth thing in the panel where sabo is at the top of the world is reminiscent of these giants)

but we are also introduced to .;... dolphins

these are important because i think nika may have some kind of dolphin relation. dolphins notoriously feel like rubber and are known to be jokesters that laugh

dark quail
#

labo PHASE
first thing that comes to mind is the phases of the moon

punk records is an analogy for the moon,

or rather the moon is a big kind of brain satellite and how there are buildings in the labophase above the clouds behind the barrier reinforces that imu and/or the gorosei are usually on the moon and the peopple we see are just their 'avatars' they pilot from a safe distance

the automatons that enel woke up are the researchers,

tepid edge
#

what if luffy learns gum gum piss gatling then pees all over blackbeard

dark quail
#

If shanks is one of the satelites of the kami, the all father, the grand Fuhrer, that might be how he has such great future sight. man is literally connected to the computer running things

#

i think especially with how elbaph and shanks have a lot of norse ties, i think the terrm of the biggest bad up the chain will be All Father, just from the wordplay we get from Big Mom

tepid edge
#

what if chopper eat the jacket fruit then make a monster jacket

dark quail
#

i do want luffy to pull a jake the dog and become a suit for zoro

tepid edge
#

yeah and then they can be like “ONE PIECE PUNCH” and imu all “OH NOOOO”

dark quail
brave yew
#

Oh, maybe the Axolotl regenerative power may be for Kuma, since he's been turned into a cyborg and mentally isn't anymore how he was.

#

hm blackbeard is also called "Teach", and I guess in some way one could say that when he takes whitebeard's power, he "teaches the world a lesson they won't forget", about smth new that's possible with devil fruits.

#

I wonder... Enel isn't from the moon originally, right? Otherwise (unless he's trying to like bring back some treasure he found on earth) it'd not make much sense for him to want to get back (and maybe also not to have such struggles in doing so). But if he were from the moon, then due to lower gravitation than on earth, for his character design, that could then have been the reason for why his ear-lashes are so long, since earth's gravity is higher.

#

What Musk will/would look like when he comes back...

#

what would his name be if he were musk on the moon? -> Muskel

#

I wonder how long Musk's been a prominent figure, because the names aren't that much different: Elon, Enel.

fast nimbus
#

🤯

dreamy igloo
inland cobalt
#

Cool idea but what is "Gnost" Gnosticism is from greece/the Mediterranean not Brazil where pink dolphins live

hidden radish
#

hi there, i’m new to the one piece fandom (just started reading it last october)
i just finished reading the skypiea arc and i have a theory
was all the skypieans praying for enels defeat foreshadowing to luffy being the sun god nika?

frozen birch
#

his design is just a reference to buddha/fukumimi

#

and enel's name isn't based on Elon lmao. it uses the same characters as the romanization of "energy"

#

there's also an electricity provider in italy that it could be based on with the same name

prime drift
hidden radish
#

accidentally seeing spoilers while browsing the subreddit

winter granite
#

Edward Teach. (alternatively spelled Edward Thatch)

Oda had fun with his name.
First name given to Edward Newgate,
last name given to Marshal D Teach
and alternate spelling of the name given to the guy BB murdered for the Yami Yami fruit.

#

BTW Edward Teach is an NPC in Assassin's creed IV.
(Best pirate game ever.)

distant slate
#

Hot take: man marked by flames is a women

vast plume
#

Hot take: man marked by flame is a trans

dark apex
#

Hot take: man marked by flames is masked deuce

spare meadow
#

cold take: man marked by flames is sogeking

dark quail
dark apex
terse bronze
#

Saw a theory that whitebeard could also be part Buccaneer since both him and Kuma both have similar height, had relatively similar body shapes as kids, and the same characteristic bumps beneath their mouths, do yall think it’s possible

dark quail
#

without a doubt, also urouge, orlumbus, garp,

#

this is theory related in that im still convinced that borsalino is going to pick a side, but this is the 25th post on r/all rn

m7hfxs9nwdfc1.webp
#

i actually get chills seeing how big this series is getting. its validating to know that im not wrong in thinking theres something really special about this series

#

im also convinced that buccaneer is related to birka

#

birka nero

brave yew
dark quail
#

I hope we get a scene of luffy getting balloon animaled by someone strong, bend him into gear six, a ballooon dragon

#

buggy is a clown\

#

OH MY GOD
when vegapunk gets turned into a child by bonney

he has the chubby cheeks of a birkan

the cheeks of the weatherians

vegapunk is fucking birkan,

this thickens the plot

#

these are also the same cheeks that kumas mother has,

which ive always always always wondered if his dad was lying when he said his wife was normal

ive always thought she was likely taken to be a wife when he told kuma she died but thats less backed up

#

this adds a lot to cover stories with vega in it. Im guessing the rest of mads are significant for their respective races/analogs

mint estuary
#

One Piece is very special and imho does a lot of things that other anime/manga series and even regular literary series don't do very well

dark quail
#

Enel was a Birkan,

Enel Obliterated Birka

The city full of automatons on the moon is named Birka

Its something even off planet pirates were looking for

We know the birkans were one of three races that were natural resource refugees from the moon to the earth. I always think about the dance powder and how it steals moisture from other islands, meaning their exodus could have been intentionally or unintentionally the fault of someone else.

Before coming to the idea that there is a global birdcage/curtain/tree frond/atmosphere turned black I was certain the giants had been hokaku sovereignty-ing moons from the sky to make the inhabitants have to move to their planet/rule which could still be true (and poetic if luffy ends up pulling the moon out of the sky to save the planet)

but im inclined to think, especially with the dance powder and the unbelievably fast growing plants on skypeia/greenbelt and the panacea being 'trees', the skypeians white spirit trees, albers name being about trees, the adam tree, the eve tree, the whale tree on zou, the mangrove trees, the boin archepelago that usopp went to in the ts, the tree of the pigmys and goa birds that chopper went to in the ts (it grew the 'panacea' but was being kept from the 'dr's by the big birds who were trying to protect their treasure because their last home, goa, had humans that wanted to (and likely did) take their treasure, of which is heavily imposed the image of an empty nest and also the moon. empty nest implies the treasure WAS taken, but then what were they guarding. it focused on the nest while also having a newly hatched chick could mean theirr treasure hatched recently and the chick is now the treasure, I also am curious if theres any imagery of the nest looking like a strawhat. gonna have to look at that later

anyway, plants, they were taken from the moon, likely as the side effect of some seemingly miraculous plant procuring tech/magic down on the earth, and thats what moved the birkans.

mint estuary
#

my personal favorite being showcasing human emotions in a very real spread way; protagonists aren't just stoic hardened monsters bordering on psychopathy and Oda has a very clear and concise theme about Freedom and explores it in every single aspect and way including sexually, physically, emotionally, politically, spiritually, and makes it very clear this is an integral part to the living (not always human) condition

dark quail
#

forgive the adderall typing, and the fact that im trying to not think about life right now. the words just kinda come out.

mint estuary
#

One Piece highkey radicalized me against people who ramble on about freedom but have no beginning of understanding of what that means beyond their right to be a complete asshole

#

I hardcore mean this politically but will not name specifics

dark quail
# mint estuary my personal favorite being showcasing human emotions in a very real spread way; ...

Listen, i know how fucking wild this sounds, but One Piece might be the most important piece of art made in our lifetimes. Like, our Don Quixote, our LOTR, our Odyssey and illiad

oda has used the medium of a goooofy fucking cartoon world, and by giving it hard rules, has created a sandbox that lets him sneak in repeating themes and patterns that go completely under the radar

on top of that, every day im more and more convinced that hes not just a fucking savant at keeping in mind what is in the story so he can write things in and make it look like he was forshadowing

he. has. planned. this. all. from. the. start. at least the big picture.

One man, every week for almost 25 years, drip feeding us a symbol on the rosetta stone of a fake atlantis, while also writting in the most human characters,

and its all in some fucked up mathrock echo bullshit, like, every single arc tells the story, a fraction of the ancient story, the people and motivations in our story explaining the people and motivations of the ancient story, almost like telling us fairy tales that have real history in it. And because its a fucking goofy cartoon, he can show those parallels through things like haircolor, poses, panels, clothes patterns,

and those great works i mentioned, hes referenced every single one of them, hes woven real history, real people, real mythologies and religions, like a tapestry,

and hes written a 1500 year history with 10 plus races of a planet four times larger than ours and hes woven that like a nearly watertight basket

It blows my fucking mind

dark quail
# mint estuary One Piece highkey radicalized me against people who ramble on about freedom but ...

I hope you dont think im poking fun, but reading this kinda freaked me out. Its been the only thing on my mind the last year.

One Piece changed my fucking life. gave me a religious experience that had me sobbing like a child, (i did my 16 years in the mormon church and that shit never moved me to tears)

but its instilled into me that exact sentiment youre expressing.

Im genuinely having a hard time picking my words, because its radicalized me too, we are sleepwalking into the end of everything, like, we have 5 years and change of carbon emissions before its literally the point of no return and weve been being told that for DECADES,

coupled with the realization that there is a defacto vacancy when it comes to mental health treatment between outpatient and crisis inpatient has been the final wakeup for me. my country would kill me given the chance. They kill hundreds every day the same way, they let their own veterans climb into that grave without a second thought.

but i digress.

the character that comes to mind every single fucking time is Koza

Koza, dragon, kuma, wyper,

anyway, ill stop with the revolutionary speak, but i want you to know that i have never said a word out loud about one piece being such a big catalyst so reading what you typed made my eyes pop open

pure raven
#

I understand the world better now, thanks to one piece, as DUMB and as STOOPID as it sounds.

radiant crown
#

It's often hard to see the "forest for the trees" in our daily lives, and the goal of media is to help us bridge that gap, so I'm not surprised at all.

One Piece does do it excellently though

pure raven
radiant crown
pure raven
fallow scaffold
#

So, before I post my theory, just want to add some real life context:

First, I'm on the autistic spectrum; makes it hard for me to tell when someone's joking around or not.

second: Due to a combination of factors (still trying to recover from those 10 years I spent living with with my arrogant ol' man) my mental health isn't exactly the greatest at the moment. Been finding ways to deal with it (Never knew how good it would feel to just have some adorable poochies sleeping at your feet while in bed at night), but still: Let's try to keep things positive, if it's not too much trouble

(God, I love One Piece; always knows how to bring up your spirits, doesn't it?)

steel stream
steel stream
#

tf? This isnt the spoilers chat

dark quail
#

fair, mb, im floored anyone here doesnt suck up every possible spoiler, but, ok

steel stream
#

you just spoiled the chapter for me while Ive been trying to avoid spoilers

#

thanks

dark quail
#

yeah, dude, sorry, im still floored anyone who is poking around the theory tab of a series is averse to spoilers. but its fair.

steel stream
#

whats done is done though ig

frozen birch
#

there's a reason why these sections have the latest chapter you can discuss in their titles

#

everyone in this channel is here with the intention of discussing only up to 1105. #spoilers and #1184-spoilers-2 is free game for spoilers

cyan cargo
#

I think Luffy will meet his mom on Elbaf
I believe she’s one of the humans that lives on the island and sent the giants to help bring him to elbaf after the events in Wano

wild barn
#

Luffy is a clone.

fallow scaffold
#

So, probably just my anxiety talking, but did anyone see my post yesterday? Just wanted to make sure

hardy trench
balmy axle
#

These theories are wild asf

modest skiff
#

@brave yew please keep in mind this channel is not intended for fan fiction or for posting links to other people’s theories. This channel is intended only for discussion of high effort theories and specific topics pertaining to those theories. @frozen birch is correct regarding the distinction between theories with evidence and simply choosing to make the story different. Communities for fan fiction exist elsewhere but we do not accommodate fan fiction within this server. Feel free to DM me if you have any questions or concerns

brave yew
#

okay, so I'll only post about high effort theories from now on:

#

Imu -> Emo (in hindsight, it seems so obvious, simple... and at least the name Imu, to think of an emo, even if not clear at that point if it can make sense, it'd be a starting point from where to theorize about it)
emos have random whims, emos can want to "eat/cut themselves" -> make fruits that eat themselves, serve themselves -> passion fruits
^> if Imu dies, all devil fruits are gone => all admirals serve the Imu's whims or they lose all their power since the passion devil fruits are the keys to their dominance
^> has an irokese hair cut(?) fits to emos
^> what do emos or punks stereotypically look like?
^> it also explains 2 more things: 1. how I came to a different conclusion with a more generalized theory namely that in principle, for special powers, the devil fruits shouldn't be needed, which should be correct, and 2. why despite of this, the info that Oda gave wasn't this more fundamental theory about strong enough genuine desires allowing such abilities, but only the special case of how devil fruits (also) work based on desires, namely to not reveal too much about it and especially not about the mystery for why devil fruits exist in the first place, namely as power of a not on devil fruit powers relying genuine strong (self-eating) desire carrying emo...
^> it may also make sense why Imu is such a black or dark drawn character, due to the general depressive looks (probably the polar opposite to Luffy, really...) that they tend towards, I suppose, or gothic looks maybe
^> so it's funny how all the strong admirals etc. have to follow the whims of an emo (rather than the stereotypical super masculine and powerful pumped up strongman as final opponent of sorts)
^> solved it... and so I guess I can make Oda change the ending, which will be more interesting to see, and maybe I can make him add the specific change I want...

# 
"Lily..."

Makes sense that an emo would be all about a woman (and love is after all just about the thing that people get way emotional over), probably as part of the personality to fit as emo, so much that they started to hurt and eat themselves...
I'm not sure if only all "fruits that serve and eat themselves (i.e. passion fruits, i.e. passions (+associated powers) giving fruits, i.e. devil fruits) would disappear if Imu dies, or even all powers of all the ones that ate a devil fruit (which seems likely), but that clearly is a strong reason for why the admirals would have to serve any wish of such kind of person.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passion_fruit_(fruit)
The Portuguese maracujá and Spanish maracuyá are both derived from the Tupi mara kuya "fruit that serves itself" or "food in a cuia".
However, here's the big deal though: You see, I had a more generalized theory where even without the help of devil-fruits, if people or creatures had strong enough passions, they should also be able to develop such devil-fruit like powers in general (which would explain Zoro and how Jinbe can steer water currents while not being weakened in water, and how sea monsters and ancient dinosaurs could have such powers and grow enormously, with this possibility having existed long ago before/without devil-fruits as separate means by which to boost the ability to develop passions and hence cause an explosion of crazy abilities to emerge suddenly when formerly, only the most passionate people and creatures could have developed such, but the passion fruit allowed access to this to the otherwise less passionate ones, too).

#

And so this means that as soon as Imu were to die, the power situation would change in favor of the truly passionate ones, not the ones that needed devil fruits for it, which would make people like Zoro and Jinbe the strongest, and make Luffy, Chopper, Robin, and Brook lose their abilities (and so Brook would die, in particular), and many others, too. So I'm sure it's gonna be a hard decision there especially regarding Brook, for if Luffy or whoever fights Imu in the end would be informed about this.

Imu would also represent kind of the depressive polar opposite to Luffy.
And I think it's a tragedy, because Imu may not at all be evil by their nature, Imu should be a victim of his own ability, exploited by the very ones who have been able to come to power through Imu's by his ability created fruits that are alike Imu himself, namely the passion/devil fruits that are also emos "eat themselves out of despair". However, at the same time, they'd all rely on Imu, or if they understood the mechanism behind it that caused it, namely that there had to be someone capable of genuinely developing such passion of wanting to eat themselves (if out of unfulfilled love or self-destructive tendencies in trying to deal with depression), then in principle, the admirals could try to create an environment for where many people feel depressed... like in Japan or asia in general where the suicide rate is rather high out of depression, where even if Imu died, someone else among them could be the next one to be enabled to acquire by genuine means Imu's devil-fruit creating ability.

#

So now I've even been able to somewhat connect it to irl. I don't think a better theory will come up, but okay. With One Piece, Oda (in the end) is trying to help or save all the depressed people in asia.
Well, I'd argue that proportional to how much one can explain with just few or 1 principle(s), the better of a case one has for that being the true underlying logic that's also used.

It also makes sense for why Imu would kidnap Vivi! Unfulfilled love, to be compensated for.
Imu is also the kind of evil or degenerated version of Sanji that Sanji told to Zoro if he'd ever become that, Zoro should kill him, which could already be a fore-shadowing reference to the end at Imu.
And it may be why Zoro may be wary about Sanji and have so much conflict with him, because Sanji's character would be somewhat close to Imu, which Oda would be aware of.
Oh! So this also means that if they don't want Brook to die, they have to "beat Imu" without killing Imu, which is a clever design by Oda.

#

Because Emos should be helped. Luffy's crew will have to make Imu get over his depression, and convince Imu to either not undo the devil-fruits or only certain ones, to make bad people only lose theirs.

Well, regarding Sanji fearing of turning into an emotionless robot, I guess it'd be another variant of what Sanji could've developed into, namely between emotionless or all self-absorbed in emotions, fair.
However, I think Oda already has planned a very morally good, powerful message for the ending, which can positively affect many people, and so I should instead allow him a trade: He can and should keep his ending but for that should change up the thing I want him to change up (which is about people going interplanetary, which is a massive crime if only people would know why...)

But that raises an interesting question: You see, for a person in the world of One Piece to by natural, genuine strong enough desire obtaining special powers, if they are the first person (either at all or after the last person that did) to do so, they are the one that get those powers, but what if they later lose that desire? Do they keep their ability until they die (which probably is the case), or does it switch as soon as someone else were to develop/have a stronger desire for it (which should lead to lots of fluctuations of who carries devil fruit powers in general, which aren't observed).

Imu being the most emotional emo of them all surely is also indicated by him having the by far largest iroquoise hair-style (and hence indicating that of all with such kind of personality, he stands out the most, has that ability, rather than anyone else, which if it weren't true, there should at least be the chance that Luffy comes across some really emo guy elsewhere, and so I predict that this won't happen)

#

I wonder if Lily is a woman Imu loved but died, and just cannot get over it...
Is probably the only thing Imu cares about, even if as side-effect of what all happens due to his insanely powerful ability provided to people that just cannot handle it due to being power-hungry, the whole world is in ruin... that may be the cost of clinging endlessly onto the past... it also fits to when Ace dies and Jinbe talks to Luffy. He tells Luffy that there is still people to care about, and so Jinbe should really talk to Imu, I guess. Imu would be someone that needs his advice more so than Luffy after Ace died.

So maybe only Jinbe can save Brook, because if Jinbe cannot explain this to Imu (or dies before that), then it may be impossible to convince Imu to change things up due to what it's done to the world, and so then the only alternative may be to kill Imu and make all devil-fruit users be gone, but actually... maybe Brook isn't at danger at all... we haven't seen it yet if he ate a devil-fruit or by genuine passion developed the ability to stay alive, and I think it's the latter, and so he's probably fine actually.
The irony in this would be in saying: " "Good" for Brook that he genuinely felt so extremely bad about it, rather than by the help of 1 of Imu's fruits, or he'd been at danger when they confront Imu".
However.. have we seen Brook affected by water or sea prism stones yet?
That'd allow to tell if he ate a fruit or not. He ran on water but that may be about it? Does anyone know?

arctic ermine
#

"Makes sense that an emo would be all about a woman" , yappenomics 101

brave yew
#

oh my goodness, Imu's the butterfly effect guy? hmm...

brave yew
#

Like Romeo and Julia or 2 kids in a CSI Vegas episode where 1's cutting itself because the other died that... she, I think, loved, and had a child with, and wanted to take herself, the child, and the deceased guy into the desert so they'd die there together or stay there together "throughout death", etc.

#

and world-weariness / weltschmerz may also be what an emo in one piece may cause (over their own personal one)
Imu-Sama The Supreme Authority : Made Five Elders Kneel | One Piece Ep 889 Eng Sub
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4hzQqUwgKs

YouTube
RORONOA ZORO ONEPIECE
Imu-Sama The Supreme Authority : Made Five Elders Kneel | One Piece...

Im-sama is an extremely high-ranking individual in the World Government whom even the Five Elders bow down to, and the one who sits on the Empty Throne. However, Im's existence is a secret to the rest of the world
"Finally, It Starts - The Conspiracy-filled Levely!"
One Piece Epiosde 889 English Subbed

▶ Play video
brave yew
# arctic ermine "Makes sense that an emo would be all about a woman" , yappenomics 101

Just look at that Imu guy having pierced a sword into the image of that woman (I don't remember anymore who exactly she was, I think she was in the arc after the Sabaody Archipelago). And notice how he surrounds himself with butterflies, and don't tell me that they aren't placed there and meant to be some form of substitute for his (in some way, not clear which) lost personal love. Also (and I just realized that a bit earlier), look at how many swords there are sticking in the ground all around this place. Imu must have been doing this routinely for ages to women, supposedly. And the 5 sages or so also start talking as if they already knew what it was about, which also indicates that it's kind of a routine they've been going through similarly for a long time, rather than first asking more generally about what it is that king Imu wishes for.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_Lovers

The Butterfly Lovers is a Chinese legend centered around the tragic romance between Liang Shanbo (梁山伯) and Zhu Yingtai (祝英臺), whose names form the Chinese title of the story. The title is often abbreviated as Liang Zhu (梁祝).

#

Inb4 the one piece is the lost love Lily that Roger kidnapped to some island, away from Imu over smth (though that doesn't actually make so much sense since then Imu and by extension the whole marine would be focused on getting those red poneglyphs to find the island).

#

"Emos would rather want to hurt/cut themselves or feel pain, rather than to have to endure the emptiness in their heart from lost love".

#

Also, Imu might in the end even want Zoro to cut him, but so far, instead of cutting himself, he had other women cut instead.

hardy trench
# brave yew > Imu -> Emo (in hindsight, it seems so obvious, simple... and at least the name...

oh my god i hate what the admiral slander has done to the common perception

admirals aren't tyrants masquerading as peacekeepers trying to maintain dominance, they're not weak-willed bums carried entirely by overpowered fruit abilities, they have no idea imu exists

they're actual peacekeepers, who enlisted because they want to change the world for the better, actually trying to stamp out pirates (who are 99.9% of the time signifantly worse than marines) and protect the world, even if they have to make far too many compromises and deals with the devil to do so

i'm not disparaging your thought process and you've hit upon a lot of good details and interesting ideas but jesus this gets way too old

brave yew
#

Also, I think based on the behavior of the marine (as extension of Imu, representing Imu's will), one should be able to make some deductions about whatever may have happened to Lily or not, and who may have been involved or not, or if she still lives or not. Because surely, if someone or a group were to be responsible for either kidnapping her or having killed or hurt her, then Imu would be raging about that and lash out with retaliation on them, and so that should then show up as the marine either in the past having gone after them or currently doing so (which might then lead to Dragon and the revolutionaries who may have Lily).

#

Since the marine shows the by far unproportional aggressiveness toward the revolutionaries, and while this could be so (as pre-text to hide the actual reason) just because of them being against the marine, there could also be a stronger, more fundamental and separate reason behind it, namely the marine's dependency on the wishes of Imu, who may have personal issues with some of the revolutionaries due to Lily. She may even be Luffy's mother, if she was together with Dragon instead of Imu, which could lead Imu to hate the strawhats. But apparently he also has smth against blackbeard for some reason...

#

they have no idea imu exists
that may as well be true. For the admirals it may seem as if the 5 elders are at the top of the hierarchy, but then those elders would have to be either even stronger (which doesn't seem so) or be respected for other reasons like about justice, which however must also not be the case because they are just the slaves of Imu's will essentially, and so the orders they must have given over many years must be to tell the admirals to go after random women for Imu.... which does not speak for them being respected for being all so wise...

#

they're not weak-willed bums carried entirely by overpowered fruit abilities
That, however isn't true. the sun-related one provably is the literal personification of absolute self-centered arrogance, a god-complex. And the volcano-like one has as central personality trait the wish to be feared by others, like hell. However, there do exist reasonable admirals, like the blind one and probably the ice-casting one. But not the life-sucking plant growth one.

hardy trench
#

dude, just read the manga instead of purely speculating everything

lightman's currently receiving heavy focus and he's like very possibly the most humble of the admirals, literally describing himself as nothing more than a cog in the machine

magma in one piece is related far more to the concept of rebirth and beginning of a new era, like what happens after a volcano explodes and revitalizes the land around it

brave yew
#

lightman's currently receiving heavy focus and he's like very possibly the most humble of the admirals
no he isn't. But it's interesting that he may seem so, superficially.

#

magma in one piece is related far more to the concept of rebirth and beginning of a new era, like what happens after a volcano explodes and revitalizes the land around it
I see, well it makes sense, but differently. Those are the propaganda narratives they spun around it. After all, they have to convince the people, too.

#

Otherwise they'd not fall for what their character traits actually are like, when they're exposed, for which there's evidence.

#

You see, their devil fruit powers don't lie (and those powers are by natural law of the one piece world causally necessarily connected to their deepest, strongest character traits, for which there is en mass evidence for this logic to hold true for every single devil fruit user). They can say what they want.

hardy trench
brave yew
hardy trench
brave yew
brave yew
#

You would know about it to this depth because of me.

#

which is that they come from dreams, which already throws a ton of what you've been talking about out of whack
No, it supports my more general theory about these abilities being achievable without devil-fruits, too, like in the case of Zoro and Jinbe.

hardy trench
#

or because we literally got an explanation from the canonically smartest man alive jesus christ dude what is your ego

you're relating devil fruits to passions, what they want to do as in "i wanna be feared, i wanna stand at the top", things directly relating to their personalities

dreams are bigger than that in one piece

jaFyuko1UcNjgylYsLJ6CgrG9Lo3dBgSklhUorjNc7k.png
brave yew
#

you're relating devil fruits to passions, what they want to do as in "i wanna be feared, i wanna stand at the top", things directly relating to their personalities
dreams are bigger than that in one piece
You mean they are that. I just correctly derived that myself, too.

hardy trench
#

yeah sure my bad carry on then

brave yew
# hardy trench yeah sure my bad carry on then

okay, 1 question, if among the further things you know about the manga have anything to say on this: Is there any information about what the personal relationship is or mutual stances between lightman and the self-less blind admiral? They should be complete opposites and not do well with each other, according to my theory.

hardy trench
brave yew
hardy trench
#

and given what's happening in the current arc, there's a decent chance lightman will die or leave the marines without ever interacting with him

brave yew
#

the blind admiral is so self-less that his ego is so low, instead of it being way up at the highest where the sun is (lightman's case), it's in the center of the earth

hardy trench
#

yeah sure

brave yew
#

represented by his ability to control gravity. yes sure.

#

It also shows by him leaving it up to luck for what he decides, external influences, dice rolls.

#

And it also shows by him being blind, having to rather crawl on the ground, being beneath others.

#

And it also shows by him being blind in the first place, because eyes tend to symbolize a person's will, soul, but he is selfless.

#

I'm telling you, in terms of ego, they are opposites.

brave yew
hardy trench
#

you're still operating entirely on assumption about kizaru and you seem to think dreams start and end at facets of their personality when from everything we've seen they're far more than that

brave yew
hardy trench
#

like 99.99% of them besides like maybe zoro but big mom, luffy, brook, robin, sanji for starters

brave yew
#

so if lucci is a satellite, does that mean that vegapunk secretly infiltrated the CP9?

brave yew
#

not buying it so far.

hardy trench
#

it means vegapunk's willpower was removed in order to make him more willing to go along with all the world government ordered, and this willpower was later used to create rob lucci

brave yew
#

oh ok

hardy trench
#

do you know anything about big mom's character

brave yew
#

sure, it fits to my theory

hardy trench
#

so how does the tyrannical embodiment of gluttony wanting to create a world where everyone is equal fit your theory

brave yew
#

that isn't what she wants. You apparently don't understand it quite yet. That's not her deepest desire which her abilities are derived from. She's a baby that wants to be cared for, fed, screams after her mother, says mama mama all the time, goes into rage if she's not fed or if someone breaks her mother's image. does any of that ring a bell?

hardy trench
#

and that deepest desire is exactly what i'm talking about

that's not her dream

brave yew
#

a world where everyone is equal
that's Jinbe's thing btw. he was a crew member of big mom

hardy trench
#

yeah sure dude my bad

ncazrhgp3vn81.png
brave yew
#

as baby she probably was more easily to be influenced by others. even the "bewitching" girl in Wa no Kuni was able to do that.

#

She's a baby (including the clothes), she barely reasons on her own about the world but is influenced by others surrounding her, as long as they can care for her.
With her ability, she can animate the world around herself to have company, with at least friendly-looking, almost peg-like objects to entertain her with and to play with, like little girls playing with puppets, but more real, animated.

brave yew
#

hmm I wonder... if the many instances in which e.g. Luffy (but similarly also others) eat way too much might be a reference to "passions of the passion fruits they ate eating their users from their inside, or also having to be nourished by them (almost as if they were pregnant)"

frozen birch
#

we don't know how devil fruits work nor where they come from. Vegapunk proposed his working theory, but the fan base took it to be literal when instead it's a figurative statement

brave yew
frozen birch
#

we do not know that

brave yew
#

But the abilities that people gain from strong enough genuine passions depend on what the desire is for.

brave yew
frozen birch
#

look, if all you want to do is be masturbatory about your own theories and act like they are the only possible truth, then do it by your lonesome.

you have also made countless unverifiable claims and assertions that are nonsensical

brave yew
#

No I don't act like that. People can share their theories and provide evidence for them and I'd be just as much interested. It's more that it seems when I do so, I get criticized and have to defend.

frozen birch
#

earlier you asserted that Oda would have to change his story to make your idea work

brave yew
frozen birch
#

because you spew line after line of meaningless drivel. just loose observations that don't amount to much beyond pattern recognition and word association, then come here and act like you have evidence of something. when people contest your "theories", you deflect by saying we are confused or don't understand, when it's you who are incapable of realizing you're not actually making a sound point

brave yew
#

that's not true in the slighest. And you're hiding your argument in vagueness to not be able to be pressed about actually showing any evidence speaking for your claims in the hope people just believe you.

frozen birch
#

Aran, you asserted Imu is predicated on the word emo and started making points about how Imu is "emo", acting like this is evidence of anything

brave yew
frozen birch
#

i do not have claims-- I'm saying your theories do not have sufficient evidence

brave yew
#

I mean put up a competing theory, sure.

frozen birch
#

that's not how this works

#

it's not "my theory is true until proven otherwise", if you truly believe that you are beyond discussion

brave yew
frozen birch
#

people do not need to offer a competing theory to recognize your theories aren't sufficiently backed up

brave yew
#

Guess we'll hear from Oda then. Supposedly he has the final word on it. GL on theorizing

frozen birch
#

if you want people to engage with your theories in a serious, reasonable manner, you're going to have to stop trying to assert you've got something that "explains everything". it's very difficult to engage in good faith when you haven't even caught up with the manga as durblyh said earlier.

just taking your emo/Imu thing from earlier, there's no actual evidence or logic here. you just make assertions one after the other and then say "solved it". that's complete nonsense lmao.

image.png
#

there is a line between theorizing and headcanon, and you often dip into the latter

brave yew
#

just taking your emo/Imu thing from earlier, there's no actual evidence or logic here.
I'd think others may disagree with you on that, but if you see it that way, ok.

frozen birch
#

and for good reason, mods recognized you aren't actually theorizing as much as just baselessly speculating/writing fan fiction

brave yew
#

you just make assertions one after the other and then say "solved it". that's complete nonsense
I'm just following the same logical principle that I've used on many other characters to derive and make sense of many aspects of them, and applied the principle to Imu. Because it seemed to have made sense in all other cases, that is what lead me to believe it generally has merit and would make sense here, take it how you want.

brave yew
frozen birch
#

this logical principle of yours is not actually based in logic at all... it's basic word association/pattern recognition.

#

there is no measurable skill in theory-crafting... anyone and everyone can theory craft... and we do, but we don't hold ourselves as some self-important omniscient being who knows what Oda must and should do... it's laughable, especially considering you have are not caught up.

brave yew
#

it's laughable, especially considering you have are not caught up.
the correct word to describe it is impressive*

frozen birch
#

it is impressive that you had asserted many things that are wrong?

#

when you throw out so many things as you do when you "theorize", i'm sure you'll get something close eventually, but that is not any measurable skill, that's a percentage chance.

brave yew
hardy trench
#

The ego is impressive

frozen birch
#

it reads as an inability to come to terms with reality

brave yew
neon wharf
#

does global warming effect the OP world, is that why the sea is so high

brave yew
# neon wharf does global warming effect the OP world, is that why the sea is so high

have pondered about it, but in terms of strategy of e.g. fish-folk, to make more fruits inaccessible to devil-fruit users bec they become weak in the sea. Though I haven't looked for, nor can recall any direct reference or evidence speaking for anyone trying that. And so far I doubt Oda added smth like that into his design. He'd have had to plan that from very early on then also.

neon wharf
#

al gore existed

#

you should start a onepiece channel with some theories, i havent heard many of them before

frozen birch
#

in the current arc we learn there is a means of increasing the sea level

brave yew
# neon wharf you should start a onepiece channel with some theories, i havent heard many of t...

I've seen a good one already, actually, but have barely started looking for them. Also, I guess one possibly could say that when 1 of the 5 wise men says that the current state of affairs cannot be maintained forever, it might be that it's because the current situation may be tied to Imu's power, and Imu not living forever, and I guess there could be another aspect to the ruling of people like Imu over the world continually. You see, if Imu keeps on sending the navy after beautiful women to kill them (or at least kidnap them), then besides possibly fulfilling his own desires more, what other effect may this have? Well, especially beautiful women, arguably, would attract people in love of them, and so if they lose their loved ones, among those by Imu chosen people may in the future arise the next Imu, inheriting his power and position in the marine.

neon wharf
#

which is your favorite one

brave yew
# neon wharf which is your favorite one

My favorite what? Wise man of the 5, or female character in one piece, or theory channel about one piece (only really seen 1)? Also, if that additional hypothesis about Imu's role is true, then his choice to take Vivi away from especially Sanji caring so much about her may even intend or lead to him becoming the next Imu.

brave yew
frozen birch
#

no

#

and no

neon wharf
#

is there conservation of matter in the op universe, can water be created from nothing in several places

brave yew
# frozen birch and no

well but it is also a means, but ok. I guess there's more. Also nvm yeah that'd lower the level, not raise it, but still change it massively, and could temporarily lead to a massive flood.

brave yew
neon wharf
#

wow

frozen birch
#

i'm not looking to spoil you, because you are not caught up (yet for some reason are here in an 1105 channel lol). if you are interested, i just advise you to read the source material

brave yew
#

To raise the sea level, I guess skypiea or smth like that may just have to come down crashing into the sea.

frozen birch
#

no, see, you don't have to guess

neon wharf
#

they have a fusion machine that merges hydrogen and oxygen and its a secret weapon

brave yew
#

Well, lightman supposedly could do it, or whatever the phenomenon was that exterminated the island that Sabo was on, by light pillars, just instead used onto an arctic or so to melt it.

#

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xIYAYrxtJM Also, the way lightman behaves here also speaks about him having a god-complex. You see, when Rayleigh comes in and inhibits his actions, he's not concerned, shocked, worried much about it (which, if he would have been would've meant he'd be "out of character", namely by respecting others' ability to play an important role for what happens, but in his mind he's god, and things can at most be a bit delayed or a bit harder than he may have thought; he's downplaying major hurdles in the way of him trying to apply his authority). He's rather emotionless about it.

YouTube
Japo Nes
Rayleigh Vs Kizaru Full Fight
▶ Play video
frozen birch
#

given everything we know, i can assure you he does not have a god complex

brave yew
# frozen birch given everything we know, i can assure you he does not have a god complex

I may not yet know as much, but I stand to my theory, and the devil fruits don't lie. In my theory, so far the devil fruits' physical representations of characters' personalities have reflected them really well and imply smth else. And if lightman indeed took out the island Sabo was at, with light pillars, I'd interpret that as "absolute authority, divine punishment, and hence god-complex". And if one wouldn't know where it came from, one could've thought it was the sun itself taking out the island.

Also, I think regarding Imu, for him to not just point with a finger or mark whoever he wants to target next but to stick swords into them may also be an intentional choice with his emo personality in mind, since emos may cut themselves, and so there could be a logical connection there, too.

frozen birch
#

you can stand by your theory all you'd like, but your read of him having a god complex from this interaction is incorrect... this is what i mean about trying to force things within this framework that you think is all encompassing-- it doesn't work here. you're going off a lot of if's (IF you're theory is true, IF kizaru destroyed lulusia, then this) that's not really sound

and again, this assertion about Imu boils down to a stereotype about emo people cutting themselves being akin to Imu sticking swords in pictures. that is not real evidence of Imu being emo lmao

#

and it is not the sun itself taking out the island...

brave yew
#

boils down to a stereotype
One Piece is FULL of stereotype characters (just taken to extremes by artistic freedom and exaggeration).

brave yew
frozen birch
spring tapir
#

I think a good thing to note is to look at the pinned theories and how they are structured / organized

frozen birch
brave yew
frozen birch
brave yew
frozen birch
spring tapir
#

Stuff like sub headings help sort by section, panels / scenes from the anime help provide supporting evidence to your claims, a good way of looking at it is how are they connected, is there any material stating otherwise, what are some related themes presented, etc

brave yew
#

the thing is: you are allowed to argue against it of course, but solely by referencing concrete content supporting your argument. Cut away all other bickering, please.

brave yew
frozen birch
#

it is very difficult to show you that you are wrong in what you are guessing/theorizing, when you have not yet caught up to the manga. I can tell you what was involved in the destruction of lulusia, what is causing the sea level to rise, why Kizaru does not have a god-complex, but it will spoil the rest of this current arc

brave yew
#

You can spoil me all you want, it's fine. Don't hold back.

frozen birch
#

a substance known as mother flame is being used in whatever device it was that destroyed lulusia, not kizaru, not the literal sun itself.

the destruction of lulusia caused the sea level to rise all across the world, not the use of lasers on ice, not Wano opening its borders

Kizaru has been shown to be a character who struggles between his commitment to his position as an admiral and his relationships with the people whom he calls friend. this has been a recurring issue for him across this arc, having to carry out his orders at the cost of harming those close to him. his loftiness does not signify a god complex, he has a carefree, comical demeanor that we've seen throughout the series as when he jokingly said ben beckmann was so scary for pointing a gun at him or when he casually asked random nameless pirates at Sabaody for directions/where sentomaru was. we are seeing him in this current arc unable to maintain his usual attitude because of the situation he's been put in. no god complex in sight

brave yew
#

not the use of lasers on ice, not Wano opening its borders
yeah, I never claimed that, as you know. I said that those would be means that could also do it, which you agree to.

#

a substance known as mother flame is being used in whatever device it was that destroyed lulusia, not kizaru, not the literal sun itself.
doesn't speak for him not having a god-complex, of course.

frozen birch
#

it does not speak for him having one either... we've seen his attitude throughout the series, and it's not so self-centered and self-important

brave yew
#

Kizaru has been shown to be a character who struggles between his commitment to his position as an admiral and his relationships with the people whom he calls friend. this has been a recurring issue for him across this arc, having to carry out his orders at the cost of harming those close to him.
that sounds like the typical character introduction story thing that Oda has been doing for about every character with devil fruit powers so far, for explaining how they obtained their character trait or passion.

brave yew
frozen birch
#

again, here you go just trying so desperately to tie it back to your bullshit theory

#

no evidence is enough for you, because you are hellbent on your initial assertions you've made your mind up on

brave yew
#

Ussop didn't start out as courageous either. It's his theme though, starting as weak character.

brave yew
hardy trench
#

😭

frozen birch
#

this is hilarious

#

you are not even caught up and you think you have some divine insight into what this character is doing

hardy trench
#

I just assumed they’re a troll and stopped

brave yew
#

if these facial expressions don't scream arrogance to you, then idk man

fgfggf.png
brave yew
frozen birch
#

sure

brave yew
#

you can also for comparison google "expressions of arrogance" and check the images. Look, my intent is to educate and try to reason, but ok.

frozen birch
#

your argument right now is "he looks arrogant"

#

this is not evidence of him having a god complex

brave yew
hardy trench
#

surely this is an innocent girl JuPeter

latest.png
brave yew
dark cedar
#

Arrogance != God Complex

#

Compare Enel's literal God Complex vs Kizaru's personality

brave yew
#

A God complex is typically associated with narcissistic personality disorder, but it can be present without the disorder. People with the complex tend to see themselves as better than those around them and significantly inflate their importance. A God complex, on its own, is not a mental health diagnosis.25 Sept 2023

frozen birch
#

the irony

brave yew
# frozen birch the irony

indeed. the difference between an expert in smth and just an arrogant person is the merit that their argumentation and conclusions have, and that the arrogant person doesn't even bother to think to have to argue their case or engage in the points others raise, rather than thoroughly addressing them to prove where there's flaws or other considerations to be aware of.

dark cedar
#

Well, you can't be the expert in this case, considering you are making assertions while you're not even caught up in the story. Kinda hard to make a good argument when you're missing a bunch of context that everyone else has

brave yew
# dark cedar Well, you can't be the expert in this case, considering you are making assertion...

you're assuming for some reason that the possible to so far to collect evidence for making such inferences is insufficient, right? I'd simply disagree with that, based on evidence I've cited above already to support my argumentation. I have barely seen anything worth of evidence posted to the contrary. It was just lightman saying ""I'm merely a cog in the machine"" (I view this as intentional lie he tells to others to assert them safety about his behavior, but okay).

#

Kinda hard to make a good argument when you're missing a bunch of context that everyone else has
yeah, isn't it then interesting how much evidence I have been able to post despite that? (Maybe the Socratic method works better)
Personally I'd say the backlog speaks for itself, but apparently not.

dark cedar
brave yew
frozen birch
#

no, not in the past probably, this is going on RIGHT NOW in the arc, the one you have not read

dark cedar
brave yew
# dark cedar In the present, too

well, I know it sounds stubborn, but I have my evidence, and the devil fruits don't lie, and so I doubt it. ONLY With enough counter-evidence, you can change that.

brave yew
dark cedar
#

Or just spend a few hours and catch up

brave yew
frozen birch
#

to read the series we're discussing? 😭

brave yew
frozen birch
#

we have provided you the argument for why he does not have a god complex, citing the events of the current arc, one which you have not read. you refuse to acknowledge them as valid, instead favoring your preconceived notion... i don't know what else to do for you

brave yew
frozen birch
#

so you want us to read the series for you

brave yew
# frozen birch so you want us to read the series for you

no lol. it's your claim. apparently you don't know anything explicit that your claim is based on, now do you? But you made it seem as if it were different, so is that genuine or not, I ask you. And then blaming me for not doing the work you should have done before making your own claims.

hardy trench
brave yew
hardy trench
frozen birch
#

ok, i will entertain your stubbornness to read the very source material we are discussing, and provide you the panels. but i imagine you will just assert your baseless assertion he has a god complex despite it

brave yew
#

you guys are still trying to trick me, aren't you? I mean it's intellectually interesting for debating practice, but that's about it. without more content posted, we're stuck.

brave yew
dark cedar
brave yew
frozen birch
#

but again, you are going to discount these instances because you do not have the greater context of the arc which we have described

image.png image.png image.png image.png image.png image.png
brave yew
#

took a while

frozen birch
#

it took 3 minutes???

#

i think you should take some time to reflect on why multiple people have disagreed with your assertions and find your "evidence" insufficient. evidence is not just more assertions lol

#

there was also a flashback where we saw him spend two years alongside vegapunk, kuma, and bonney, enjoying each other's company and dancing with each other amongst other things

brave yew
frozen birch
#

again, arrogance is not evidence of a god complex. and you are missing the greater context of that bottom right image...

brave yew
#

it's good enough. try arguing he's humble

frozen birch
#

i cannot provide for you the context of the entirety of the Egghead Arc

brave yew
frozen birch
brave yew
frozen birch
brave yew
#

i think you should take some time to reflect on why multiple people have disagreed with your assertions and find your "evidence" insufficient.
and others have found it to be sufficient.

dark cedar
frozen birch
brave yew
#

there was also a flashback where we saw him spend two years alongside vegapunk, kuma, and bonney, enjoying each other's company and dancing with each other amongst other things
has it ever struck your mind that for a person to be arrogant, they don't necessarily have to be arrogant toward every single other person?!

frozen birch
#

has it ever occurred to you arrogance is not tantamount to having a god complex

brave yew
brave yew
frozen birch
#

can you point to someone, please do

brave yew
#

strutheo, by his emoji reaction 🤔 under your claim way up

#

and yourself. you admitted he looks arrogant.

frozen birch
#

if you think a "thinking" emoji under my claim is the same thing as agreeing with yours... then you are seriously lacking some sense

#

again, no one has agreed with you that looking arrogant is the same as having a god complex besides yourself

brave yew
#

makes it more funny when it turns out more clearly that I'm right.

#

the narcissist would care about what they look like; would even move the line of thought and steer a discussion to their face/image outward... (regarding the bottom right image, him talking with vegapunk; vegapunk in there actually appeared to apply pressure on him, baits him by making it sound like he's weak if he cannot take the pressure, trying to manipulate him emotionally and he falls for it)

frozen birch
#

that is absolutely not what happened, you are just writing fanfiction for something you have not read, this is not the purpose of this channel lol

brave yew
frozen birch
#

how else do i express to you that what you asserted did not happen?

#

and how do you have ANY justification for even saying that happened when you have not read the arc, let alone the rest of the page that panel is from

brave yew
#

Also, Kizaru is complimenting himself, like a "humble-brag", implying the reason he doesn't look so good is (just) his shades, as if otherwise he's perfect.

dark cedar
#

No he isn't lol

brave yew
#

Given how he's 1-sidedly stretching his mouth open, I don't think he even cares about what vegapunk told him, "goes in and out".

frozen birch
#

kind of like how you don't care what we tell you

#

wonder if you have a god complex

brave yew
frozen birch
#

we cannot provide you enough evidence for something you have already made your mind up on despite not having read the source material

hardy trench
brave yew
dark cedar
brave yew
# dark cedar wrong

now I'm your butler having to do your job in asking you to provide your reason for why.... this is as far as it's gotten

#

never been debating stuff in philosophy servers, have you

frozen birch
#

this might just be a genuine troll

brave yew
#

I think leaning the head to the side also fits to suppressed laughter/"internal grinning".

"person leans their head to the side, thinks: "what is this other guy thinking, doesn't he know, or...?"

dark cedar
frozen birch
#

either that, or he thinks observations and assumptions he's made without greater context is the same thing as actual evidence

#

let me approach this with the aran;jaeger methodology

I think him closing his eyes while adjusting his glasses actually indicates he is preparing for a deep slumber, closing your eyes is something people often do before engaging in sleep

brave yew
#

if he means it genuinely that he isn't perfect, sees his flaws, then I think as reaction to vegapunk's statement, he'd have moved his chin down to look more to the ground in acceptance to the critique, rather than to the side.

hardy trench
#

yeah that's how most people think

brave yew
brave yew
dark cedar
#

You wouldn't have to keep saying "if", if you just read the manga you are trying to comment on

brave yew
#

instead of caring to give a reason or explanation or any comment on the actual topic vegapunk is criticizing him about, he talks about his look...

hardy trench
#

it's almost like he's in a deeply uncomfortble heartbreaking situation and is trying his best to maintain his bearings by distracting himself from the issue

brave yew
#

you mean a cognitive dissonance; but no, I mean that, but admittedly, I have some problems (due to lack of experience) in interpreting the reaction and facial expression, from such little context

#

like he just seems to want to "calmly disagree, or agree to disagree", without upsetting vegapunk.

dark cedar
brave yew
#

also, for vegapunk to tell him he cannot deal with pressure would (if he'd acknowledge that) in the strongest sense be potentially an implication that he isn't qualified, isn't suited for being an admiral (if he cannot deal with that pressure), and I don't see him as so insightful to take that seriously.

brave yew
#

iirc, Kizaru's and others faces were also inspired by in japan well-known, popular speakers or singers or so, and such extroverted people tend to rather be higher in narcissism (even if it's japan).

#

https://youtu.be/MJd3ccTVtog?t=681 Luffy's not about freedom or free will btw. Here's a hint: he's called Joy Boy.

YouTube
Mr Morj
The Tragedy Of Kizaru: The Admiral Who Sold His Soul

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#

https://youtu.be/MJd3ccTVtog?t=715 ah, so it's stated there, too, the dictum has not yet fallen on how he'll turn out to be, and I already have good reasons for thinking where it'd go if it continues.

#

He has no own will about justice or thoughts about it regarding the external world, because to himself, he's the center of the world, the sun. He's a narcissist, the greatest narcissist possibly even, if he obtained his ability not via a devil-fruit, and so to care about anything else, losing thought over it for decisions on which to do would be against his main characteristic of narcissism, because then who knows, maybe someone else would've cared even less and beaten him on the narcissism scale.

#

I guess vegapunk would be the 1st other person he may have a glimpse of caring about. And so to specifically (maybe cherry) pick a response context with him and vegapunk to show he's not arrogant doesn't seem representative or adequate. And I suppose he just fulfills the duties he's given so that he has a clean image and others can (maybe literally) look up to him on how well he can do the job/task given to him. And so I think yes, admittedly, based on this logic (with this desire being at his core), he'd not behave arrogantly towards everyone, namely then not when for people (that e.g. others, maybe restricted to the established group he's part of, respect), to behave arrogantly to them would make them not look up to him anymore, so that they'd see a flaw in him, but other than for those, when he has nothing about his image to lose, he's free to behave as arrogant as he wants towards them. And this maybe could explain why he specifically is more careful or respectful toward vegapunk, in part because he'd be respected for intelligence but also would by the same token recognize it as flaw in Kizaru if he'd behave arrogantly toward him, wouldn't be as easily tricked. He surely lies at vegapunk though when he confirms he's a miserable man, because he must be busy thinking all day about how he's the most special, best or smth.

neon wharf
#

oh man so much to catch up on

brave yew
#

Signs of a narcissist
From sources across the web
Lack of empathy
Need for admiration
Sense of entitlement
A belief that others are jealous
Interpersonal exploitativeness
Arrogant and haughty behavior
Grandiose fantasies
They expect preferential treatment
Reacting negatively to criticism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism

Extremely high levels of narcissistic behavior are considered pathological.[27] The pathological condition of narcissism is a magnified, extreme manifestation of healthy narcissism. It manifests itself in the inability to love others, lack of empathy, emptiness, boredom, and an unremitting need to search for power, while making the person unavailable to others.[24] The clinical theorists Kernberg, Kohut, and Theodore Millon all saw pathological narcissism as a possible outcome in response to unempathetic and inconsistent early childhood interactions. They suggested that narcissists try to compensate in adult relationships.[28]

#

(more regarding Imu)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emo

Lyrics, a focus in emo music, are typically emotional and often personal or confessional,[9] dealing with topics such as failed romance,[10] self-loathing, pain, insecurity, suicidal thoughts, love, and relationships.[9]

brave yew
#

https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/Perona
Could it possibly be that Perona is Lily or related to her or similar? Is there any mention of her or reference to her coming from Imu? She'd fit well to an emo guy and wears a crown (but seems to not be that old). Though even if not, if Lily may be dead, maybe for ages so, she could still possibly be Imu's substitute to calm down and come to senses, if she'd also have a liking for his personality...

One Piece Wiki
Perona

"Ghost Princess" Perona is the former commander of the Wild Zombies and Surprise Zombies of Thriller Bark prior to its collapse. She was one of the Mysterious Four and one of the major antagonists...

gritty heath
#

Kizaru I find to be the classical No fucks given guy. People can perceive it as narcissism or arrogance, but its simply him being confident enough in his abilities to get the job done.

brave yew
brave yew
pale stirrup
brave yew
#

Rather speculative, but maybe worth mentioning as idea: https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/Amazon_Lily_Arc
The Lily arc is where Luffy's on the island of women, and maybe Boa Hancock could be either Lily or a descendant from her, and if that were the case, and if Imu somehow were to know where she is or at least that Blackbeard nearly killed her, then that possibly could explain his apparent hate towards Blackbeard, expressed by having ripped apart his Wanted image (and I guess if the marine goes after blackbeard, then that'd also be a sign of that). But if Imu would know where she is, he should've approached her or done smth there, but nothing seems to have happened. At the same time, it possibly could explain why the women maybe are way ove-reacting when it comes to men, for if there was some really bad incident between Lily and Imu and Lily moving away, maybe with some following her, coming with her, and from that moment on maybe they swore they'd never deal with any men anymore, idk. Just some thought, but maybe people that know more, deeper into the mange could assess it better. And it could possibly also explain why Imu rips apart Luffy's Wanted poster, not because of what he's been doing, which Imu may not care about at all, but that Boa Hancock loves Luffy, and Imu may have come to know about that.

#

Actually, I don't think it's such bad of a hypothesis, because Vivi's abduction and her father's death iirc come shortly after that incident where Blackbeard attacked Boa Hancock and the women on the island, and so that could been an emotional reaction out of affect of sorts by Imu in response to that.

#

But regarding Perona, I'm not sure why she wears a crown. Is it because she has royal ancestry, or because she just likes cosmetics like that, or maybe because in her dreams she'd like to be a princess? If it's the last one, then that could mean she's predestined to have Imu fall in love with her on first sight, maybe being reminded of Lily by her, and release him from his depression. And it'd be especially ironic in this case because her ability is only mentally, with her "negativity hollows", to make people depressed but in Imu's case she could be his cure to depression... and maybe but just maybe should could've originally caused Imu to become so negative in the first place as result of some conflict maybe upon which she could've used many hollows on him. And I mean for some reason (which may be suspicious), she also thinks she could beat anyone (except maybe Usopp of all people):
https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/Perona

She is very confident in her Devil Fruit powers being able to defeat anyone.[26] Even when confronted by the powerful and dreaded Warlord of the Sea Bartholomew Kuma, after initially being frozen with fear, Perona quickly regained her confidence and proclaimed that she would defeat him.[27] She is also quite stubborn about using them in combat, having continued to use her Negative Hollows against Usopp even after they proved useless due to his negativity because she believed that his immunity was a fluke.[28]
And I could see her confidence arising like that if she knew of Imu and his top position and knew she essentially beat even him, but just herself lived isolated in a castle alongside the other solo guy Mihawk Dulacre.

#

Is there any info or reference maybe saying/indicating that Perona in her past has once made someone depressed or used many of her Negativity Hollows on someone (i.e. Imu would be who I'd then be considering to be that)?

azure scarab
#

Imagine if vegapunk dies but since his mind is attached via bluetooth to punk records he uploads his mind into a cellphone kind thing and basically turns into a Siri for the strawhats

brave yew
#

Chances though are that even if Imu wouldn't want Boa Hancock for himself, given/assuming he generally has some bloodthursty obsession with prominent, probably rather rich and beautiful women (likely related in some way to whatever his personal trauma with Lily was), him having ripped apart both Luffy's and Blackbeard's wanted posters surely is in relation to Hancock, which would connect them all. However.... it would be a bit schizophrenic, but not quite, for Imu to on one side be envious of Luffy for Hancock loving him while at the same time hating on Blackbeard even though Imu should have feelings in terms of intended punishment or aggravation toward Hancock over how she possibly could have feelings for that other guy. But I think what could maybe explain it would be that even if Imu would want harm or threats happening to Boa (and who knows, maybe he even commands Blackbeard or told him to do that, but I doubt it; blackbeard has his own agendy, though if Imu gave him a good enough deal, who knows...), then Imu might be adamant about if harm happens, it happens through himself, by his orders or directly, and so if blackbeard mixes himself in, interfers with that, that may go against Imu's intentions, but if that's the case, then Imu couldn't have been angry about blackbeard, unless that was due to blackbeard having been unsuccessful, and failed (in the hypothetical scenario where Imu sent him).

#

Main takeaway: "psychology shit is complicated"

#

Imu also strikes me as being in character then somewhat similar to Vander Decken IX who's kind of haunting that other princess from a distance by making weapons fly after her, so she cannot leave her home anymore (maybe alike a stalker situation):

https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/Vander_Decken_IX

He seems to be somewhat of a poet, reciting a haiku after Shirahoshi rejected him.

Decken is completely obsessed with Princess Shirahoshi, which leads him to act without thinking straight and usually acts one step ahead of the situation, such as writing wedding invitations before even proposing or realizing that he has no friends to invite, or calling Neptune "father" before the wedding that Neptune disapproves of anyways. He is also a madman when it comes to Shirahoshi, as he is willing to go to extreme measures such as throwing Noah just to kill one person. However, unlike many fish-men and despite joining forces with the New Fish-Men Pirates, Decken himself never showed interest about any sympathy for or against the centuries of prejudice against humanity and it's just centered to marry the mermaid princess and achieving the purpose of his ancestors.

Typical of a pirate, he believes violence is the answer for everything, which is most evident by how he displays his affection for Shirahoshi by throwing large weapons at her.

He tends to overreact to certain situations that surprise him, such as reacting shocked and depressed when Shirahoshi turned him down for "not being her type" and decided to cry endlessly, recite a haiku, and shave the top of his head in depression. This was shown again when she rejected him a second time despite her life being on the line at the time and when her brothers showed up.

However, his existence (due to depression and other similarities) might pose a risk to the validity of the Imu emo theory, but probably not.

One Piece Wiki
Vander Decken IX

For the first captain of the Flying Dutchman, see Vander Decken. Vander Decken IX is the captain of the Flying Pirates on their ship, the Flying Dutchman, and the eighth descendant of the original...

brave yew
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4hzQqUwgKs
Also, in here, they use the metaphor "what light should go out? (possibly to turn the "mood of the world closer to what Imu feels like and would want the rest to feel with him, so that they finally in his mind start having empathy with him and helping him, focus (even more) on him and his wishes, I suppose; "be more like me, so you truly understand where I am emotionally, or how I feel")" instead of "who has to die?", and that may also speak for Imu being self-destructively depressed.

vast plume
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Bro take a rest like dammm

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😭

neon wharf
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wyt about borsalino

heavy ledge
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ITS THE WILL OF DAWN

brave yew
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However, I wonder if Oda may already have built his "plan B" into one piece, either intentionally or by noticing accidentally that one exists that could also fit well, for if he'd have to change up the final part with Imu, and so then the art would be that in the case it'd already have alternative references in One Piece, to also guess what that might be, "to leave him empty-handed". And that might be where the theories relating to Perona or Boa Hancock may come into play.

brave yew
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I wonder if there's also any meaning to Imu having such red pupils with 2 rings (slightly similar to those of Luffy). It may be blood or wound related and be part of a (self-)harm theme, but who knows. But the "red sphere within a red sphere" geometry reminded me of the passion fruits with their special interior different from the rest.

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Other than the haircut, Imu has a darth vader like appearance, but I think that's meant as (plausible enough) red herring.

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Also, isn't the important shocking thing that Sabo tells the Revolutionaries that he saw someone on the throne? So if he didn't know that prior to that moment and that probably then it was also new to at least most if not all revolutionaries, that'd exclude prior close interactions between them...