#the-future

1 messages · Page 8 of 1

feral plover
#

That's if it's in the same timeline. Still unsure on if everything happens in a single timeline, or if Hell is actually a gateway to all timelines. Just jumping between them is a possibility.

clever bear
#

I’m pretty sure they’re jumping between timelines at least some, with Hell being connected to every Earth. Alternatively it could be a situation where because the Slayer has been fighting in Hell so long, the universe where humans live has collapsed and Big Banged again multiple times and this is the 5th or 6th iteration of the same universe

shy frigate
#

I read somewhere doom 2016 actually fits into doom 3 taking place just a couple years after doom marine got rescued. Which fits if you believe doom guy and doom marine are completely different characters

solar crown
clever bear
#

The Doom Marine is 100% a different guy

solar crown
#

wait, doom marine mb

#

yeah they are different, they couldnt really be the same

clever bear
#

Doom 2016 occasionally referring to the Slayer as the Doom Marine does confuse matters but 2016 was initially intended to be a direct sequel to 3 so that’s probably just a holdover from that version

shy frigate
#

Yeah I believe doom eternal reworked a lot of the lore from my understanding

solar crown
#

not really

#

most either wasnt confirmed or was established in tag1

clever bear
#

2016 was kind of the first Doom to have substantial lore at all. Doom 3 has more story than a typical Doom game but it still keeps things very simple

shy frigate
shy frigate
feral plover
#

Doom 3 being connected directly to the story of 2016 or the originals doesn’t really make sense

#

I do wonder how humanity from DoomGuy’s og timeline is holding up though.

glad egret
#

I think there was something that mentioned that that earth was completely wiped out

reef bolt
feral plover
feral plover
#

Like did they go extinct, are they a successful intergalactic space empire, or something in between

glad egret
#

maybe the next doom will explore it. that would be interesting.

feral lake
#

I find it difficult to find anything on the og timeline

reef bolt
#

You end up being the last human on earth

feral lake
#

ah right

#

wait a minute

#

Doom 64's story premise says that a satellite from the abandoned Phobos base sends a message back to Earth

#

"A long forgotten relay satellite barely executing, decayed by years of bombarding neutrons, activates and sends its final message to Earth. The satellites message was horrific, from the planetary void there came energy signatures unlike anything sampled before. "

#

and iirc Doom 64 is set a few years after Doom 2

#

I doubt Doomguy would have spent those years completely alone on Earth so, wouldn't humanity have returned to Earth then?

reef bolt
#

Also plutonia they build a device that shuts down portals that do open

feral plover
#

I want cookies

feral plover
#

Per Doom 64's manual, Doomguy spent his time with the military post-Doom 2.

mint plinth
#

my head canon is Doom 3 happens, and the UAC covers it up and moves tot he new martian base.

lunar jolt
#

Is there one?

reef bolt
mint plinth
#

then the Doom Marine was commended, and perhaps when the next invasion takes place he goes to phobos (doom1,2,64) and its a timeloop. Not seriously. But that was my OG theory.

feral plover
#

Could work I guess

clever bear
#

I had an idea for demon encounters I’d love for future Doom games to play with: demon vents. Basically have air vents, doggy doors, or some other kind of narrow passage accessible to some demons (let’s say whiplash, imp, and zombie soldiers) but not the player. Could be used as an alternate method for spawning in demons in incidental encounters, and in arena fights it could give some demons a unique shortcut to flank or ambush the player.

feral plover
#

me getting absolutely fucked by a whiplash i didnt see through a crack in a wall

glad egret
#

Yes, But also no.

#

Mostly no.

#

It isn't part of the larger timeline, but that doesn't necessarily mean it didn't happen. Hell is one plane of existence that connects all other planes and dimensions, so in theory Doom 3's universe is an alternate universe connected by the same Hell

#

In a sense. It's all explained in Eternal and its expansions

clever bear
#

No one likes the movies though

glad egret
#

yeah we don't talk about those.

#

Event Horizon was a better Doom movie than the Doom movie

#

It's a great movie

#

I think it's on Prime

elder viper
#

It was closer to its source material then Annihilation and that’s saying something cause it still sucks ass.

#

Annihilation is worse though and if those rumors about the live action series on Peacock are true…

static thistle
#

We better hope it's gonna be a step up(it won't be)

elder viper
#

Certain aspects are. The events of the game take place in an alternate universe and aren’t connected to Doom 1, 2, 64, 2016, or Eternal. However other aspects like the Martian Hero, Soul Cube, and Doom 3’s demons are canon in the sense they exist in Hell and are alive during 2016 and Eternal we just never see them.

#

I think a Doom anime would do well. Something similar to Cyberpunk Edgerunners. A anime recounting the events between 64 and 2016 in more detail or perhaps show us what happened between 2016 and Eternal.

#

He exaggerates the Slayer to much

#

He is one of the biggest reasons people make the Slayer seem stronger then he really is. His videos overestimate Doomguy’s strength.

#

Within the lore of Doom. Doomguy is pretty much an unstoppable force but people for some reason think this means he can solo anyone no matter what

#

Doomguy gets his shit rocked by Kirby

#

Well yeah. B.J lacks a lot of what makes Doomguy so durable and strong.

#

Funny how the Nazis can’t kill him. Even when he was wheelchair bound

#

It’s just ok. Next to I guess Cyberpilot it’s easily the weakest of the MachineGames Wolfenstein games

#

I wasn’t told that Old Blood was an expansion of sorts to New Order so I played that first and afterwards it made New Order seem really easy

#

Still great game though

clever bear
#

Specific quality of life feature I’ve onl seen in one FPS (and I assume it’s in the sequel) but should be in pretty much every FPS as an option to help controller players: quick 180 turn
The game I saw it in was RE7 and while it’s a carryover from the tank controls days for Resident Evil, it works incredibly well in an FPS.
The way it works is if you press back with a designated button, you immediately turn 180 degrees. It makes playing an FPS on controller much less awkward than it would otherwise be

woven siren
#

or crispy, forgot which port i was using at the time

#

seems useful but i feel it would cause too much of an impact in games where 180 turns are vital

#

not that much in-game (i think most people can do a fairly quick 180 with enough practice), moreso in the communities

feral plover
#

id disagree that Halo armor is even stronger than doom guys armor

#

cause half the enemies doom guy is even facing are Plasma burns

#

Barely any of the demons are using Ballistics and everyone else is throwing missiles at him

woven siren
#

doesn't the suit have scratches on it from claws though

#
  • halo armor regens
#

actually idk much about halo so i don't think i should be in this conversation

clever bear
#

If all the wear showing after thousands of years is some paint scraping, I’d say it’s ridiculously durable

feral plover
#

The shields are strictly designed to block Ballistics and have some resistance to plasma temporarily

#

then they gotta be 10 seconds to recharge

clever bear
#

Doomguy could also facetank imp fireballs before he got the divinity machine powers and was using shitty UAC armor, so the guy in the armor is insanely tough too

reef bolt
#

Usually go with old blood first

feral plover
#

Masterchief in the books imo is too exaggerative compared to the actual games

#

Masterchief in the games would be fucked by Doom guy in his own game

#

If halo was actually at all showing off what the books show. Then ya id say spartan 2’s would easily sweep up the Slayer

#

but even in comics spartans can make mistakes and die by coincidence

vapid rose
#

Sequel?

feral plover
#

and most people will use the excuse like Promethean weapons etc.

#

Spartans were already able to tank them with their plasma shields

#

they were also designed for Flood Biomass not Titanium Alloy super soldiers or covenant armor

vapid rose
#

Yes

#

I like New Colossus too.

elder viper
vapid rose
#

Yea

reef bolt
#

That is strange

feral plover
#

Old Blood is less memorable I’d say. The characters and their interactions with each other is partly what made the New Order work so well, and that takes a backseat in old blood.

#

I didn’t really love any of those games though

reef bolt
#

I like the modern take on old guns. I'd say it's only weak point is the early stealth section. Being able to play the first episode of wolf 3d is fantastic. And I love zombies. Also loved the stage arcade mode. The castle looks and feels daunting. All around fantastic atmosphere

feral plover
elder viper
clever bear
#

What if pinkies were actually invisible and you had to rely on environmental details to track them like the Wendigos in Dusk?

hybrid jungle
#

Tbh I'll put out the bfg

feral plover
elder viper
woven siren
clever bear
#

Yeah spectres

feral plover
clever bear
#

Spect ers

feral plover
bold solar
#

Who else would like to see some doom 3 shit in the new game

clever bear
#

Could you be a bit more specific?

#

No, I mean @bold solar

bold solar
#

Like the end boss or the cacodemons

#

Or the one with the bfg

clever bear
#

Those no, not really

#

Especially not the pitiful cacodemon

bold solar
#

Ooh! The lost souls

clever bear
#

I definitely wouldn’t mind a generally more oppressive atmosphere. Bruisers are great, and cherubs are delightfully creepy

bold solar
clever bear
#

I mean like more so

#

I miss certain fights feeling truly intimidating, and especially Doom 1’s super abstract and surreal Hell

bold solar
#

I can’t remember but it scared the hell out of me

clever bear
#

Tyrants lose their intimidation factor once you know their attack patterns. They’re just too slow and telegraph too hard to be dangerous

bold solar
#

Also you really seem like a mod

clever bear
#

There are some Doom 1 fights that put me in a panic when they start despite having beaten them multiple times. I’m not a mod; just a community member with too much free time

bold solar
clever bear
#

I’d rather not

#

<@&162901871168585728> we have a crypto scammer post above

bold solar
#

<@&162901871168585728> crypto boi in here tryna scam

red relic
#

Where

bold solar
#

Above

#

And like I’m all the channels rn

#

@sonic grotto this guy

#

Dat boi punished yet?

clever bear
#

Weird demon idea that will almost certainly never happen in official Doom: the abomination. Basically it’s a huge quadripedal demon that is made entirely from human pieces melded together. It picks up and throws objects in the environment as its main attack. If it can’t find a boulder or something, it’ll pick up and throw smaller demons instead. If it finds dead humans, it will assimilate their biomass to heal

glad egret
#

I like it.

clever bear
#

I started with the body horror aspect and went from there.

patent helm
#

they should def make a Doom movie based on the slayer

#

instead of the last two movies

glad egret
#

Apparently a Doom show is in the works. Could be a bridge between 2016 and Eternal.

patent helm
#

Maybe some other UAC characters but have the slayer as the main focus

patent helm
#

more about killing demons

#

instead of just darkness and shooting at nothing

clever bear
#

I don’t think you could make that feel interesting. You’d need to set it before he was the great slayer, maybe during the first game where he was more of an underdog beating impossible odds

patent helm
#

I would love a movie based on the slayers origins,

#

because he is actually verbal in that part of the timeline i believe

#

Maybe somewhere set between doom 64 and 2016

glad egret
#

yeah that would be good

patent helm
#

or have bits from doom 1 and 2, and when he first arrives on sentinel prime

#

or at least based on the first 3 doom games, then have the ending hint at the sentinel/slayer origins

#

I would love to watch something like that

clever bear
#

I particularly like the idea of starting with his first demon encounter so he starts out a frightened survivor and becomes more battle hardened as the story goes

patent helm
#

I would love more character development from him early on to add onto his story in the games

clever bear
#

The other thing about starting at the beginning is it means people who don’t know Doom lore won’t be completely lost.

patent helm
#

Its a perfect set up for a movie tbh

#

or tv show, either or
Another idea I had is that they should make a Classic doom styled game based on the newer games, just for fun

#

like a doom 2016/eternal styled game but in the classic doom engine

#

or just sprite art

clever bear
#

That seems like a lot of dev resources for a side project.

patent helm
#

i know they have fan made mods and stuff

patent helm
#

Im not sure what the game will be about

clever bear
#

That was a different team both times IIRC

glad egret
clever bear
#

Also making some new levels is way less daunting than reworking an old engine for a new game with a bunch of mechanics the original didn’t support

patent helm
#

true

#

Yoo they should totally make a collab with minecraft or something, like something official

#

have you seen the new licensed maps they made, I would love one of those in the style of the classic doom games

#

along with textures n shit

#

Or have the environments and locations of doom eternal into minecraft

glad egret
#

when i think of doom, minecraft isn't anywhere near those thoughts.

patent helm
#

I played plenty of Doom mods and maps on minecraft, I dont see why it wouldnt work

clever bear
#

Aside from completely different gameplay styles and pretty different target audiences?

patent helm
#

Im not saying change the gameplay of minecraft, maybe just a mashup pack with a world, textures, and skins on the bedrock platform would be a fun idea

#

They have worked with other video games and made stuff like that

#

and games with more mature audiences like

#

I believe they worked with Halo and Skyrim and Mass Effect

#

And plus the doom community was trending alongside the Animal Crossing community when the game first released, so I think people who love both games would be pretty okay with it

glad egret
#

the only reason for that was those games just happened to come out on the same day

patent helm
#

May I mention the Fortnite crossover

glad egret
#

Fortnite crosses over with literally everything

patent helm
#

I dont think it would be a negative thing at all

clever bear
#

Basically, if it isn’t going to attract a bunch of new players, it’s not worth Id’s limited resources

patent helm
#

ID doesnt have to be involved much, Usually minecraft does most of the work

#

Ofc theyd have to be involved with creative choices, duh

#

but it will mostly be Minecrafts side working on it

clever bear
#

Still involves payment since it would basically be an advertisement for Doom

patent helm
#

It would be a fun crossover, just saying

glad egret
#

yeah I'm just gonna say no.

clever bear
#

Not saying it wouldn’t be neat. I’m saying it makes no business sense

patent helm
#

I dont see why it wouldnt make sense buisness wise

#

like you said, itll be an ad for Doom anyway

#

they have made crossovers before

#

Like Fortnite, Fall guys, Smash Bros,

#

All games with a mainly dominant Young fanbase

#

Minecraft will be mainly the ones pouring their resources into creating it, which they have done before

#

plenty of times, Plus I know a lot of people would absolutely love something Doom related on minecraft

#

my MC skin is literally the Phobos Slayer

clever bear
#

I still think it’s unrealistic given the investment and probable returns

patent helm
#

And I have lots of mods related to doom on that game

patent helm
glad egret
#

I think it would be an for Minecraft more than an ad for Doom. I don't feel like there are that many Minecraft players looking to boot up Doom Eternal.

patent helm
#

How so?

#

Usually minecraft is the one advertising the Collab, usually not the other way around

#

I barely saw ID advertise their collabs with Smash bros and Fortnite when they dropped

#

usually just on a tweet or something

glad egret
#

think about it. So you get a Doomguy skin in Minecraft, who's going to look at that and say "well maybe I should give Doom a chance?"

patent helm
#

Minecraft would put that on the front page of their store the minute it releases

clever bear
#

Doom and Minecraft have wildly different kinds of appeal. Doom is about challenge and speed, Minecraft is about building stuff and exploration.

patent helm
#

So did plenty of others

#

Plus I dont think they would be interested just by a skin

#

plus I think the collab would be focused for people who are already fans of Doom beforehand

glad egret
#

see above about introducing new players

patent helm
#

Advertising doesnt have to be just for bringing new people

#

A lot of the time when minecraft does it, its usually geared towards existing fans

glad egret
#

why do I need to be sold on Doom? I already play Doom.

patent helm
#

Exactly!

glad egret
#

and I have less than zero interest in Minecraft.

clever bear
#

Doom is a one time purchase. People who already play Doom are generally not continuing to give Id money. Games with ongoing DLC or subscriptions or battle passes are very different

#

If Doom isn’t getting new players, it isn’t getting money. If it isn’t getting money, then it doesn’t make sense to do it

patent helm
#

Im saying it would be cool to fans who like both games and would enjoy that kind of stuff

#

im not saying it would be cool to get new fans or benefit ID financially

glad egret
patent helm
#

just saying it would be an interesting collab, it would be far bigger than the other collabs like Fortnite, which just got a skin and cosmetics

clever bear
#

“It would be cool for fans” isn’t a reason capitalism cares about. Id is beholden to Zenimax, so they work to make profit for Zenimax investors

glad egret
#

Think about it from a business end. If they don't financially benefit, why are they doing it?

patent helm
#

I just wanted to make a fun idea, damn.

#

just saying it would be interesting IF they did

#

plus say that about every other collab in existence

#

A lot of companies do similar stuff like that

glad egret
#

every other collaboration in existence was done because there was mutual benefit.

#

no company has ever done something because "wouldn't this be a neat idea?"

patent helm
#

There would be mutual benefit in this idea too, like every other mash up they do with other videogames

glad egret
#

alright bud well, you crunch the numbers and pitch it to them. i wish you luck.

patent helm
#

theyve done this multiple times, Halo, Mass Effect, Fallout, Little Big Planet, Pacman, more recently Megaman I believe

patent helm
#

This IS the channel to do so

#

No need to be passive aggressive over MINECRAFT x DOOM theory

elder viper
blazing flume
# patent helm No need to be passive aggressive over MINECRAFT x DOOM theory

dude idk what you're on about, if doom collabed with Minecraft no one would give a shit... mc players wouldn't care nor would doom players. Yes, some people would buy it but not enough for it to make anyone any sort of actual profit. it wouldn't be worth the time of developing anything more than MAYBE some skins and a texture pack.

blazing flume
# patent helm Damn bro, just making ideas

It's funny how you just continued to defend your "neat idea" after it was explained to you over and over why such a thing makes no sense, than acted like people are just being mean to you for no reason... it's not that hard of a concept to get, currently doom isn't very popular and 99% of people interested in doom wouldn't care about some dumb Minecraft collab nor would a single mc player gaf about it. BECAUSE OF THIS, it makes no sense. It would make sense to release such a thing at the launch of another doom game but any other time, no... "Damn bro, just making ideas" yeah sure, if you wanna call Minecraft doom an idea lmao. Don't get all butthurt acting like people are being mean to you when you make some crap idea and they tell you the truth and call it crap. Especially when its explained to you why its crap and you just keep defending it.

woven siren
#

there was a mega man one

#

the problem is doom is rated m

feral plover
elder viper
woven siren
#

honestly i'm not super against a collab, classic doom could mesh well with minecraft i believe

elder viper
#

They could have the world be the UAC labs from 2016. Not every single one but perhaps the could meld The UAC with Argent Tower, Argent Facility, and Administration (or whatever that place with Samuel Hayden is called)

reef bolt
patent helm
patent helm
#

or arent talked about lately

#

And I cant believe WIlliam was so against my idea he went back and thumbs down all my messages megalel

elder viper
#

Very Minecraft thing to do

feral plover
feral lake
#

also don't forget Halo's had multiple collabs with Minecraft

#

and the only link between those two games is Microsoft owns them

#

and now they also have the Doom ip, so I wouldn't say it's as out of the question as a few of you are making it out to be

#

and Halo had gotten its first Minecraft collab back when the series was still aiming for an M rating rather than a T rating

feral plover
#

Fuck off Vega

#

great now i pinged someone twice stupid bot

feral plover
#

if the next doom game has a hell section I hope its different. like the 2016 hell was like a baron wasteland and eternals was characterized by flesh and gore. maybe the third could have a weird salt flats area were there is a strange crack that gushes with blood(blood falls in Antarctica lol) maybe some icy area, I'm not that good with imagining biomes for a fictional place when the 3 biomes I've seen of it are nothing but extremities from each other

restive talon
#

Given the ending of Doom Eternal The Ancient Gods is there even a point in bringing back hell

feral plover
#

not doom without it

#

and it would probably exist for some sort of "we need this thing" mission but the thing is in hell so go to hell to get it

#

its weird that hell is just gone in 6 levels (that aren't even main game) so there must be some way that hell comes back due to some maniac (Samuel probably) with some spite that forces them to do unreasonable things or something else

reef bolt
#

I'm sure hell or a realm like it will pop up

feral plover
#

i really feel like Samuel will be a major villain in the next game, just all the things he has tried to do for his own gain makes me think the slayer isn't willing to call it even or anything, plus they slayer was about to kill Samuel at the end of tag 1 so i def think Samuel will at least be a minor villain

#

im rooting for him to be a major one as he is the only one with a set motive to kill the slayer

clever bear
#

We’ll definitely have Hell in some form. I’d love to see a Hell forest or frozen wasteland or something. I hope there’s a bit more quiet sections in Hell to give the atmosphere a chance to sink in. I feel like Eternal’s Hell didn’t have enough breaks between fights.

feral plover
#

i dont see a forest for the doom hell because of the obsession with flesh instead of plants but still good idea

clever bear
#

There is the blood swamps with its plant life

#

In general the blood swamp level is almost forest Hell with the big difference being that so much of it is underwater

#

TAG 1 has a lot of water for some reason

feral plover
#

wetland and ocean level

elder viper
feral plover
restive talon
#

Well, "robot" angels probably not

feral plover
#

Hell should come back but be reformed. Have a different visual identity and antagonists.

restive talon
#

To be fair maybe we could have some twisted variation of Heaven instead

#

it would have its own visual identity as well as possibly new monsters to fight

#

but it would still be monstrous and grotesque in its own right

feral plover
#

Honestly 90% of the game should be in hell. You can keep the locales fresh by having separate hell realms with their own biomes.

#

And each realm is ruled by a arch demon

restive talon
#

I wonder what they could even do for a future Doom game tbh

#

there's no way they would follow the soft reboot route for 64 or 3, right?

#

It just doesn't really make sense considering 64's notable features are already in Eternal

#

and 3 would be rebooted to the point of being almost unrecognizable due to the nature of the game itself

clever bear
#

Probably not a reboot but definitely a shift in gameplay style.
64’s biggest feature is its unique demon designs that make them look really mutated and twisted, which modern Doom hasn’t done so there’s fertile ground there

solar crown
#

So 64 can fit extremely easily

clever bear
#

Yeah they don’t really play that much like Doom 1 and 2.

feral plover
#

Eternal is more of a continuation than reboot anyways

hushed violet
#

We need doomguy to go to the Nordic hell and fight ice versions of the demons

#

I think it’d be epic

feral plover
#

A part of hell that riffs on helheim would be neat

hushed violet
#

ye

elder viper
#

But that’s not a lot to work with so I wouldn’t be surprised if a new antagonist is introduced that is connected to Hell in a way. Perhaps the Quake monsters could be brought back to serve that purpose. The Lovecraft monsters of Quake would be perfect.

restive talon
#

I'd be down for a completely original Doom game with no references to previous entries whatsoever

#

just to see what they could come up with

#

I'd be down for anything at this point

feral lake
#

hell isn't gone, and the demons most certainly aren't either

clever bear
#

Hell is locked shut but is still there. You’d just need a new villain to force open the door once again.

feral plover
#

samur

#

only one with motive to kill the player

#

if he is intoduced as a helpfull character that has his own agenda 1 more time im going to lose my shit

feral plover
#

a game that has been dormant for decades and all of a sudden comes back with a banger

clever bear
#

Samur hates the Slayer, but I don’t see him leading the armies of Hell. He’d be great as the villain’s co-conspirator

feral plover
elder viper
# feral plover called a soft reboot

I don’t like how people call DOOM Eternal a soft reboot of Doom II despite the fact it’s more or less kind of true. What’s annoying is people saying the next game will be a soft reboot of Doom 64. There not “soft rebooting” every Doom game. It was only natural we would go to Earth in Eternal.

feral plover
#

there is like a pattern of events that do happen

reef bolt
#

Soft reboot is a term I hate in general

feral plover
#

i mean theres no other term to call a game that goes to sleep mode and come back with a strong revival

#

it cant be a "reboot" cause a reboot is when everything is redone top to bottom with the same assets

elder viper
feral plover
#

i mean idk what the big deal for it is when they are both doom games that put doom back into mainstream

#

think we'd all be glad to fight the Icon of Sin one more time

solar crown
reef bolt
#

True

clever bear
#

I figure a good way to refine how the chainsaw works in the next game could be to have the chainsaw give you ammo….. of exactly one type based on who you sawed in half (ie; zombies give bullets, imps give shells, revenants give rockets etc). This would make who to target with the saw a more important choice and make careful ammo management matter a bit more again. It would also give the level designers more room to restrict access to specific ammo types

reef bolt
#

I don't think that would work. Choke combat flow quite a bit

solar crown
#

I think that would also mix kinda well with weaponmods able to give ammo aswell. Though every enemy type that gives X ammo must be kinda clear what kind of ammo they give cause otherwise it would be too much trail and error and memorization

#

Extremely steep learning curve

reef bolt
#

I would like chainsaw to have different kill animations though

solar crown
#

Hopefully it doesnt have animations at all

#

Cause i really don't want it to be a reload button that puts you in an animation, kinda boring

feral plover
#

I can imagine so many infuriating situations where you need to replenish ammo for a certain gun but just can’t because you already killed all the enemies that dropped it earlier. Doom’s combat is too hectic for something requiring that much planning to be viable for like 99% of players

solar crown
clever bear
#

Not “no ammo”, but limited enough ammo to have to make some tough choices about resources.

#

Eternal doesn’t do that at all

solar crown
clever bear
#

It’s more interesting to not always have whatever you’d normally use and need to improvise with what you still have.

feral plover
#

Yeah average players already struggle with ammo on DE already

solar crown
#

This ammo system would either handicap new players too much by having them have almost no ammo or is just an annoyance for experienced players cause it's easy enough to stay stacked

#

You don't really have an inbetween in these kinda systems usually

clever bear
#

If you always can Arbalest cacos, why do anything else? If you sometimes don’t have the plasma then you have to consider using the chaingun or rocket launcher and you’re making a decision again
I’m not married to this specific fix but I really want ammo to be a real tactical consideration on a regular basis

solar crown
#

If "you have less ammo" is how you balance things, then it's kinda badly balanced....

#

I wouldn't really call the BFG balanced in DE after all, it still basically destroys the wave

clever bear
#

The simple answer is that it means weapons map straight to enemies instead of situations, and weapons being rock paper scissors tied to specific enemies is kinda boring. Ammo restrictions aren’t the only factor to consider but it’s important to have.

#

The BFG could definitely be balanced better but having a super weapon that can only be used occasionally is awesome. The best way to adjust it imo would be to reduce tendril range so it can’t reach everything in an arena and only clears a section of it in the direction you’re facing.

solar crown
#

I would rather have every gun be good against atleast 5 enemies and every enemy has atleast 3 guns good against whilst i also need to gain ammo via those weapons which may not even be more effective rather then be shown the middle finger cause i missed a shot during the chaotic action or the devs forgot to put down ammo

clever bear
#

Fair enough. Even increasing the chainsaw cooldown would be enough to fix my main issue if increased enough to make it matter consistently

solar crown
#

Eh the core issue of it still being incredibly boring remains

#

It's better then most other FPS where you press a button to reload (though in a lot it makes kinda sense) but it is only "more interesting" by requiring you to..... be near the infinitely respawning, absolute weakest enemies

clever bear
#

This is probably stupid, but what if ammo regenerated over time passively but slowly? That way you would get ammo even if you burn through it too quickly or if you insist on overusing a particular weapon, but you would be penalized for doing so.
I don’t know what would make the most people happy, but I don’t think I’d play Doom without any kind of ammo management at all.

bold solar
#

The doomslayers journey to kill everything that makes his blood boil is supposed to be never ending, so making it so that he can canonically regenerate ammo would make everything he did so far just become meaningless

#

Like the one titan demon that he killed with his bare fucking hands? Yup meaningless cuz he had ammo all this time

#

And that would also imply that his fists are either demonic and angelic(he is neither so it wouldn’t make any sense)

#

Also the only people who want to make doom easier are the ones that are shit at the game

#

If you wanna make shit easier, than just play and get better

#

No offense to you but you shouldn’t be wining on Twitter and instead actually getting better

#

Like a normal human being

#

Also appealing to the fans? No we scale to make sure it isn’t impossible, but just barely possible

#

That arachnatron nerf? It was so people don’t fucking die a million times during nightmare or ultra nightmare and go delete the game

#

The marauder buff? It was so that random fuckers can actually get better, and good players can have a challenge

#

The doom devs and creators are only appealing to the competent ones, not the shit slingers on Twitter and discord

clever bear
#

….I’m not complaining about Doom being too hard. I’m complaining that it’s too mindless. I’ve beaten TAG 1 on Nightmare.

#

And specifically Eternal. More than anything I want the “underdog prevailing through perseverance and wits” element that older Doom has

#

My ideal fix would actually be to not let the player generate their own ammo at all and have to rely on map pickups, but apparently that’s too punishing or something

bold solar
#

Well then play different, if it’s too mindless for you than just use a different play style

#

Like I got bored in around 6 months, but I played with a different style and I had fun

#

No offense but It’s not the game it’s you

clever bear
#

I’m not bored so much as irritated with the whole “unstoppable force” aspect. I actively play tactically but more and more the ammo management that’s supposed to be important just doesn’t matter once you get good. If the next Doom does any more of that it’ll stop being Doom and become Ultrakill but with a space marine. To put it another way, the player character has no business being able to brute force through enemies. It makes enemies that should be intimidating get reduced to a joke. “Playing differently” won’t change the fact that Eternal throws the horror part of Doom’s action horror out the window. 2016 maintained at least a semblance of it but in Eternal it’s just gone

feral plover
clever bear
#

That’s a reasonable response

feral plover
#

u wouldnt need to passively gain ammo back cause its either too much or too little

clever bear
#

I don’t care how, I just want resource management to matter

feral plover
#

And even if there is the “right” amount u’d just end up hermiting and waiting around for a weapon to passively gettin ammo back

#

at least chainsaw im searching for someone ig.

bold solar
clever bear
#

Doom is a mix of action and horror. More action but the horror is still part of the series identity

feral plover
bold solar
feral plover
clever bear
#

It’s easy to forget that early Doom was actually a bit scary for a lot of players because of how good FPS players have gotten

bold solar
#

😐

feral plover
#

theres a diff between scary baddass and Horror scary

#

And doom is just Scarily baddass

clever bear
#

Yeah hence “action horror”

feral plover
#

Still not rlly horror.

feral plover
#

The atmosphere of 2016 was pretty grounded

bold solar
elder viper
feral plover
#

sure but then again the series never reached that horrifying potential

bold solar
#

Ok I’m tired Gn guys

feral plover
clever bear
#

Doom was never trying to be scary all the time but it definitely tries to make the player feel like they’re in over their head. It often succeeds too before you’re too good at the game to have trouble with it

elder viper
feral plover
#

whether its intended or not. It shouldnt be about what the devs intended. should be about how we feel abt it and how the devs can cater that to us

#

Cause the majority enjoy what doom is today so idk why a 180 is nessecary

clever bear
#

I just want more of a balance between “I’m a badass” and “haha I’m in danger”

feral plover
#

I mean i dont think theres gonna be a game where doom guy will feel in danger but u will when u see 5 marauders step in

#

I dont think “horror” is the only way to make u feel in danger

#

Should just be the challenge of the battle.

#

When u see an icon of sin appear and moving in the distance its fun and engaging to see it bash through buildings

clever bear
#

I can say that Doom Eternal never makes me feel intimidated at all. In classic Doom I often have a moment of abject panic when I open a door and see 4 cacodemons or something

feral plover
#

Well thats cause in doom 1 you know u can die very easily

clever bear
#

Exactly

feral plover
#

its still the same way with Eternal u just know how to beat em up besides shooting em down like sponges

#

There r still moments of Panic in Doom Eternal’s combat scenarios

#

every doom game ive played has given me a level of panic

clever bear
#

Eternal can throw a cyberdemon, a marauder, and 2 pain elementals at me and I’ll feel more frustrated than intimidated

feral plover
#

Not to mention eternal’s level design is very linear

#

You already expect whats ahead and every mistake is on u

clever bear
#

Yeah I want to feel caught off balance or unprepared at times.

feral plover
#

the issue is with higher difficulty makes it more unfair sometimes

clever bear
#

I don’t see a problem with higher difficulty being a touch unfair. That’s on some level what the player signed up for by picking hard mode

feral plover
#

having these kinds of moments arnt terrible but if ur asking for a system that always catches u off guard in doom levels. It wouldnt cater very well to the hardcore players

bold solar
feral plover
clever bear
#

Ultra Nightmare is kind of stupid as a game mode anyway though

feral plover
#

That would be terrible game design if this difficulty couldnt work

feral plover
bold solar
feral plover
#

Its not abt you its abt everyone. Even the devs themselves prob cant beat their own game on hardest difficulty but still have it regardless

#

Id software knows everyone is built diff

clever bear
#

UN doesn’t force you to reconsider your approach or learn anything new; it’s just the basic hard mode but you aren’t allowed to make mistakes.

feral plover
clever bear
#

You could just have a death counter and it would fill the same purpose in a more natural way. That way the hardest difficulty is allowed to get kind of ridiculous in terms of actual gameplay

feral plover
#

Sure but that just means the player runs off “Gentlemen’s Handshake” kind of rules when a dev can just say

Alrt heres a difficulty where dying is bad.

#

They arnt gonna feel special about doing No damage/Death runs unless a game officially brings it out. And rewards u for it

clever bear
#

You can still have unlocks tied to 0 death runs though

feral plover
#

Ye so why not just have a whole difficulty for it

clever bear
#

Because you could have the crazy hard mode be something more interesting instead

feral plover
#

Sure but we have master levels

#

and they also give rewards

#

and id say Ultra Nightmare is big enough to stand alone just cause there are no 1 ups and dying is faulty.

#

Most of doom’s highest difficulties have always been nonsensical or seen almost impossible

clever bear
#

Like imagine if Ultra Nightmare instead greatly reduced loot drops and enemies are always in Buff Totem mode. That would be way more interesting and more its own thing

feral plover
#

Even Nightmare itself was kinda a joke by romero cause people said ultra violence is just too easy

clever bear
#

I think the hardest mode should be ridiculous, just in a way that feels special and interesting and changes how the game feels to play

feral plover
#

not denying that but then again i havent beaten it to give a proper complaint

#

and im sure if people found UN easy they can try master levels

clever bear
#

It’d be neat to mod Eternal to add a crazy challenge mode like “every arena has a buff totem that you can only take out once all the heavies and superheavies are dead”

feral plover
#

Each skull gives a diff scenario of difficulty

clever bear
#

Yeah something like that

feral plover
#

Only one i can name is the Famine cheat code.

clever bear
#

Here are some ideas for such modifiers besides the buff totem one:
-every time heavies are spawned, one of them is swapped for a different heavy chosen at random
-all loot drops are halved
-every non-boss arena has a spirit in addition to the normal spawns
-heavies besides the blood maykr don’t take headshot damage
-arenas get extra enemies for every 10 minutes you’ve taken in that mission

carmine sage
#

Isn't halving the drops something Doom 2016 did for Nightmare?

clever bear
#

For health and armor yes. Not sure about ammo

solar crown
#

The faster you go through it the more

clever bear
#

The whole point of such modifiers is to challenge good players. It’s not designed for bad players to use at all

#

It’s basically to make Nightmare harder without UN

solar crown
clever bear
#

That’s kind of the point though, to pressure players to play faster and punish them if they don’t

feral plover
#

i feel like you’re either wanting this challenge for yourself or you want to watch people suffer

solar crown
#

It's more creative then "it's literally the game but if you make a mistake you have to do 10 hours of content again"

inner isle
#

One idea I have for Doom Shock is a thermal radar item/upgrade for the player

#

Mostly for tracking Spectres

elder viper
solar crown
#

Self made ideal game

#

Basically make doom, the arena FPS with all that stuff, in basically another genre

#

Doom rpg 2 but immersive sim

woven siren
#

honestly sounds like it'd be pretty cool

#

system shock with demon killing

reef bolt
#

Maybe not a mainline title but I'd love different doom projects like mighty doom

feral plover
#

Id make looter shooter when

clever bear
#

Some simple things I’d love to see implemented in a future Doom title:
-demon only pathways (think air vents, crawling on the ceiling, etc). This would help the affected demons have a bit more unique flavor. It would also be a great way for demons to occasionally surprise the player by being somewhere faster than expected or to add a bit of paranoia outside of arenas
-destructible environments. Being able to create new paths in combat would be a cool tactical wrinkle as it would enhance the player’s mobility and sight at the cost of being more vulnerable to getting sniped.

feral plover
#

Potato slayer, that's it, a potato slayer skin

clever bear
#

I think it’s worth pointing out instead of suggesting further ideas for nerfing the Eternal chainsaw, I actually really like 2016’s ammo economy as long as we ignore the runes and upgrades that completely break it (if you’ve played 2016, you probably just thought of at least 1 example)

#

It’s not so strict as to make any suboptimal ammo usage a big deal, but regularly missing shots or using the SSG on zombies will make the game a bit harder

solar crown
#

I don't want to nerf it, making it give even less ammo or take longer to recharge would just be a slog
I want the ammo system to be reworked to be more interactive instead of just a reload button

clever bear
#

Yeah. 2016’s solution of making chainsaw a finite resource instead of having a cooldown is probably the best solution imo. That way it doesn’t break the ammo economy and instead is just part of it

inner isle
#

Make another Doom RPG please

#

Or at least a regular Doom game with RPG player levels like System Shock 2 and Prey 2017

solar crown
#

i wouldnt want a doomgame with needless upgrades and dumb grinding for it

#

i already find most of the weapon upgrades and some suit upgrades reduntant

inner isle
#

Why are you so narrow minded with this franchise

#

Do you throw a shitfit every time there’s a Mario game that isn’t a platformer of some kind

#

Also have you even played System Shock 2

#

There’s no grinding at all

#

You receive the materials needed to level up by progressing in the story

feral plover
#

Owned

inner isle
#

Why doesn’t this server have any common courtesy rules

#

Why the hell are people allowed to fling the most vile insults at each other and receive zero apprehension

#

No, this isn’t me being a weak and fragile little shit

#

It’s standard internet etiquette

#

It’s bad enough I have self-esteem issues

#

“Then just leave the server” is the worst fucking excuse ever

solar crown
feral plover
#

Doom kinda isn't. It's grown its audience for very specific things.

inner isle
#

Again, have you even played the game?

feral plover
#

Now, I'm not opposed to some of those elements in a Doom game. I would love, for example, a Metroidvania-style Doom game with a semi-open world, akin to Resident Evil's locations.

solar crown
#

well you mentioned 2 games

feral plover
#

But I can see why others would be hesitant to include these things.

inner isle
#

Prey 2017 is a spiritual successor to System Shock, especially 2

solar crown
#

and i played prey 2017, and it did feel a lil tad like you needed to grind the upgrades

inner isle
#

One of the tentative names was even Neuroshock before Bethesda forced the name Prey on Arkane for some reason

#

Probably to bury the completely unrelated game 3D Realms and Human Head did and its cancelled sequel

solar crown
#

yeah it's pretty dumb, have heard of it and neuroshock would fit much more considering there is nothing prey about it

#

and tbf why wouldnt the arkane studio that made prey just make a demon-immersive sim

feral plover
solar crown
#

you likely would have heared about it eventually anyways

#

it's from arkana and i couldnt care less about the title, bought it cause i liked dishonered

#

but now that i know about og prey it just sounds stupid lmao, it isnt a rework or something like that anyways

elder viper
solar crown
elder viper
#

Crazy how it’s confirmed that Deathloop shares the same universe as Dishonored

solar crown
#

It's performance is somehow worse then dishonered 2

elder viper
solar crown
#

True aswell

#

Deathloop has too many missers

reef bolt
clever bear
#

I’d say it opens the door for turned based Doom, but that effectively already exists in the form of indie game Jupiter Hell. If that sounds even remotely interesting, give Jupiter Hell a look

#

Turn based Doom actually bearing the Doom name published as an official spin-off would be awesome though

#

More Doom 1 or Doom 3 than nuDoom mind you

reef bolt
#

Doom rpg 3

woven siren
cerulean iron
#

I think it would be really funny if the next proper doom game gave the shotgun basically infinite range like the classic shotgun

#

But specifically said that it had poor range

#

So that people would think it was some hidden unpatched bug and then 10 years later ID could say "Yeah, that was completely intentional"

#

Would that not be the funniest shit

clever bear
#

Classic shotgun has merely pretty good range

#

Doom 2 city levels teach you its limits real quick

warm notch
#

What's in the future

cerulean iron
#

Nobody knows

static thistle
#

life and death is in the future

wary sorrel
#

Do you guys think the next game will have a proper level editor/mod sdk?

glad egret
#

I hope so

wary sorrel
#

Same

#

Is it still possible that they release smthn like that for eternal or has it been too long? Like do other games ever get mod sdks years after release?

glad egret
#

doubtful

wary sorrel
#

Unfortunate

#

I feel like the community would make some insanely awesome stuff

inner isle
reef bolt
wary sorrel
#

the mods that do exist are definitely cool and all

reef bolt
#

Much better for sure

wary sorrel
#

but it would be awesome with custom level geometry

elder viper
naive dove
#

There will be more doom games? The dlc of eternal says "your fight with the demons has arrived to its end" so idk if we'll get more games

clever bear
#

Yes, Doom isn’t over.

elder viper
#

Whether or better HOW Doomguy will return is still unknown though

solar crown
#

and it makes microsoft extremely mad cash

naive dove
clever bear
#

That’s become less the case over time

solar crown
elder viper
clever bear
#

But it is true that gameplay and feel take priority over storytelling

solar crown
elder viper
naive dove
clever bear
#

TAG 2 made some questionable decisions all around

naive dove
solar crown
naive dove
#

I still have to see a video about who tf are the sentinels

#

Bc I did not understand at all the little lore the game has

elder viper
naive dove
#

All I know is " I'm the doom slayer and you killed my bunny daisy so rip and tear until its done while listening to metal "

naive dove
elder viper
#

And have mostly submitted to Hells power

naive dove
#

So that guy with armor on the cover of ancient gods 2 with another crucible is a sentinel?

clever bear
#

Davoth was a cool idea. It’s just that the fight was
1: way too soon after bringing him up. He really shouldn’t have died in the same DLC campaign that introduced him (I consider TAG 1 and 2 parts of the same campaign)
2: had him fight like a bigger slightly more complicated marauder. It would’ve been more interesting to have him fight like another Doom Slayer with some subtly different guns

elder viper
naive dove
#

I feel bad for vega being left at the ring tp station

naive dove
solar crown
#

noone tell him

naive dove
#

def I'll buy both TAG soon, there's a 60% discount on PlayStation currently

#

18€ for both is pretty good

elder viper
#

TAG1 is pretty fun

naive dove
solar crown
#

if you like what the game as going towards tag1 is basically just the best followup

clever bear
#

TAG 1 is excellent, if a tad intense. TAG 2 isn’t as good as TAG 1, but it’s still a fun ride anyway

naive dove
#

I just want to see that battle from tag 2 with things coming from portals from both sides

#

That scene reminds me from a movie or serie

solar crown
naive dove
solar crown
#

not true

#

theres a reason he needs to either have like demon spirits get inside of him or wait till they are near dead to glorykill them

naive dove
#

It was fun to see it the other way

solar crown
#

welcome to reality kiud

feral plover
#

I think half life changed his perspective on storytelling in video games

timid thorn
feral plover
#

To the originals yeah

inner isle
#

visual storytelling

#

the giant Imp cage in E1M9

elder viper
feral plover
#

Definitely

clever bear
#

I think there’s a kernel of truth in it still. Namely, story shouldn’t take priority over gameplay.

#

Even when story matters, it still needs to bend to gameplay

feral plover
#

hey guys

reef bolt
#

Hi

woven siren
#

but in doom, definitely

feral plover
#

if you can get a game with all of them then woo hoo

woven siren
#

art style is very important

feral plover
#

i wouldnt ever say Story isnt needed because Story can mean many things

#

The story brings out the game’s ideas, artstyles, enemies, environments

#

story is never truly the Bottom Necessity of a game. Theres always a Story even if it isnt shown typically like how we expect stories to be.

woven siren
#

i don't give two shits about whatever story is in most shmups

feral plover
#

Classic doom didnt have pure story but the story of a guy in hell is basically what the game stands for. Its the only way to make the player make some sense

feral plover
#

u dont need a full length beginning middle end story like your 3rd grade essay your teacher made you do and talk abt ur stupid ass camping trips

woven siren
feral plover
#

its the main idea that is the story

woven siren
#

games shouldn't always strive to be realistic in terms of graphics, that's boring imo

#

but art style is very important to how a game feels

feral plover
#

well im thinking classic doom but also things like ocarina of time, great gameplay, great music, great story, shit graphics but it doesn’t matter

woven siren
feral plover
#

i like ultrakill but if it had a 70 dollar price tag im backing out

woven siren
#

classic doom is goated in terms of art style

feral plover
#

i dont want a hd game

#

i want a fun game with good music and story

#

thats all.

feral plover
reef bolt
#

Truth

feral plover
#

i’ll bring up the two examples from before, classic doom and ocarina of time, both amazing games with graphics that lets face it aren’t great, but the story and gameplay was goated and so the games were amazing

#

i rest my case

reef bolt
#

Dusk

woven siren
#

those games look great imo

feral plover
#

agreed

woven siren
#

oot not as much as the others, but it's nowhere near ugly

feral plover
#

oot has one terrifying thing that i will never unsee, low poly “melons”

#

but like do you get what i mean

woven siren
#

lmao

woven siren
#

those games don't have any sort of fancy graphics but are still awesome

#

the thing is that (imo) they're still aesthetically pleasing

feral plover
#

yeah, we dont need ultra realistic shit

feral plover
feral plover
elder viper
nimble loom
#

Which has only been achieved by one guy using unreal 5

woven siren
#

lmao

clever bear
#

I’d love to see a movement FPS go with a watercolor art style

woven siren
#

would be pretty

clever bear
#

I wonder if that’s ever been done in an FPS

reef bolt
#

Neato

feral plover
#

what if we just all give up and play goldeneye on the n64

nimble loom
#

Only if we play slappers only

feral plover
#

deal

#

are we editing the files to play as mario or just the normal characters?

modern sorrel
#

That's definitely something I've been interested in. Feels like the mobility shooter market is really oversaturated with slaughterhouse gorefest type stuff

#

Which I don't mind, but I'm not particularly attached to, and I have friends who are turned off by that kind of thing, while enjoying fast-paced multiplayer shooters instead

clever bear
#

Yeah variety is good

modern sorrel
#

I figure one interesting approach would be to go for something like the style of Mega Man Zero. Instead of ripping ugly ogres apart, its robots, using pretty glowy energy weapons. It's still just as visceral and satisfying, as you see the insides of the machines and all... but not stomach-churning

clever bear
#

It could also be neat to do a game where all the enemies (and presumably also your character) are toys so the violence feels silly a bit more easily. Like killing a stuffed bear enemy and cotton goes everywhere instead of intestines, or a figurine’s arm pops off from the socket without any kind of insides coming out.

modern sorrel
#

... And then my other idea is just 'Touhou FPS', all fantasy and magical, with bullet patterns and enemies and environments meant to be pretty.

clever bear
#

I love that idea

#

Touhou games are very pretty. A bit overwhelming but very pretty

modern sorrel
#

It's definitely one of the first ideas I want to try working on, in Unity or something, just because the gameplay would be very basic, presumably not needing demanding AI, just scripting.

#

Although I haven't decided on how I'd like to approach level design, if having levels outside of boss fights at all. Maybe the boss rush approach would be best

clever bear
#

Might be useful to look at how Doom 1-2 ai works. That ai is pretty simple but feels surprisingly lifelike because of some subtle touches

modern sorrel
#

You know, of all things, Brutal Doom really opened my eyes up to a certain 'flow' state. Something about the movement and the predictable enemies, but when I was reaching some of the later levels, moving at mach speed and perfect avoiding fireballs from 12 imps in a cramped highway, or dueling a Baron of Hell with a regular shotgun at point-blank...

#

There was just something very zen to the projectile dodging that I have a hard time describing

clever bear
#

For level design, I’m partial to maze-like levels full of secrets and traps, but it’s definitely not the only way that works

modern sorrel
#

I was thinking about the potential for opening up the vertical space a bit. Tower of Guns and MOTHERGUNSHIP are two bullet hell shooters that allow you to unlock multiple mid-air jumps, basically to the point where you can fly (and rooms can have lots of boosters and bouncy platforms to help you propel through the air as well)

#

But that's definitely going to take some prototyping to settle on a movement model I'm most satisfied with. From my experience with scripting in Overwatch, you can't really theorycraft movement, it's all in the fine details

#

... Although, I'm imagining something like having multiple mid-air jumps, your crouch key being a fast-fall key, your aerial control being as precise as your ground control, and giving you the ability to 'Focus' to suspend yourself in mid-air and slow down your movement and be more precise (and cancel any momentum build-up that your regular movement control would otherwise allow for)

#

And then there was this really experimental mechanic I was thinking about that absolutely is going to need some prototyping... But I was thinking about, 'if the player needs to precisely avoid a lot of projectiles while within a confined space, how do I make level geometry like walls less frustrating when you can't even see them?'. Since I doubt I could make infinitely scaling levels like the Serious Sam games—bullets would be too easy to dodge if you could just back up forever.

#

... So, what if being near level geometry wasn't a limitation, but instead a position of strength?

clever bear
#

Something modern Doom does is use walls and platforms to segment the arena, acting as incidental cover so you have fewer things to worry about at a time

modern sorrel
#

It'll definitely be tricky to design boss fights with interesting arenas, without making cover too powerful

clever bear
#

With a boss fight, wouldn’t all the projectiles be coming from one place?

modern sorrel
#

Most of the time, although because they emphasize stage control (at least in the source material) there are definitely instances of projectiles not spawning directly from the caster

#

but that's generally exclusively a boss thing

clever bear
#

You could have the additional projectiles instead be stationary hazards to avoid rather than a moving threat

modern sorrel
#

Anyway, this mechanic I was thinking of... What if, with the press of a button, you could 'boost' yourself off of any nearby level geometry?

#

Imagine it along the lines of your character kicking off of it, or like they exploded a rocket on that surface... You get a burst of momentum in a direction perpendicular to the surface normal, but also incorporating your existing momentum, and extremely generous control in redirecting that momentum anywhere you want

clever bear
#

That sounds cool but I don’t see how that addresses the problem

modern sorrel
#

Potentially good as a means of quickly escaping when you've backed yourself into a corner... Or, more interestingly, it allows level geometry to actually be a factor in how you position yourself, beyond just cover—if you're creative enough, literally any surface can factor into your movement

#

Think of mechanics like wall-running and power-sliding. This would be like that, but better suited to the context of the more aerial-focused movement

#

And allow you to build momentum if you want it

clever bear
#

Yeah that seems neat

modern sorrel
#

(Since ideally, your regular movement isn't capable of building momentum that is stronger than your air control, allowing you to turn on a dime—having a mechanic that allows you to build momentum in a direction adds an element of risk and expressiveness)

#

... But indeed, how do you design levels for a player who can practically fly?

#

The aforementioned games, Tower of Guns and Mothergunship, those are roguelike games where you move from one enclosed combat space to the next.

#

... I still need to check out Scathe, that's a newer one.

#

Not to mention, gotta figure out how to make said environments look good in the context of, uh, a Japanese mythical fantasy setting.

#

Without getting too repetitive... But also economical with assets

feral plover
#

i like peanut butter

woven siren
#

i had an idea for a mega man inspired shooter called starshot alpha

woven siren
#

although my "focus" would be more akin to flying in guncaster

reef bolt
mint plinth
#

next doom game when

#

Will we see something revealed June 11th?

#

Xbox and Bethesda showcase ...

inner isle
elder viper
mint plinth
#

and quakecon, but i hope we get a tease, then a gameplay at quakecon

timid thorn
feral plover
#

biggest L these companies do and its cause they are insecure abt their unfinished projects that THEY themselves put through

feral plover
#

what if we get a Quake reboot that isn't Champions

clever bear
#

I think a new Doom is more likely but that would be fine

west lantern
#

Any updates on the next game? Or still none?

clever bear
#

Nothing at this time. There may be news June 11 but I would be really surprised if anything happened before that

feral plover
#

i hope a quake reboot would have more focus on community made gamemodes

#

a workshop on release maybe/mod support and having a server list just for diff stuff

#

Quake was the start of basically CTF and Team Fortress

#

in addition have an in-game tutorial how to bhop so new players can learn

timid thorn
#

Sounds good

clever bear
#

I’d hope that bhopping would work like how it does in Dusk or something. Original Quake bhopping is so weird

spiral moon
#

quake 2 remaster would be kinda cool

feral plover
#

as well as just auto jump setting

solar crown
#

hopefully it just wont rely on forcing you to bind jump to scroll or having other form of frame perfect input, only thing i want

feral plover
#

In quake everyone binds jump to mouse wheel because its easier to time. In addition u have to turn your mouse as well as A+D in order to bhop

feral plover
solar crown
#

yeah true, though a lenient timing i also wouldnt oppose

feral plover
#

Ur timing would then only rely on using A-D keys while turning ur mouse

solar crown
#

having it be frame perfect or spam-based is just meh, not really a great consistent mechanic that way

#

yeah then it would be based more on actual feel

feral plover
#

it is somewhat the identity of quake and imo changing it to somethin just “Jump and move forward” imo is quite boring

#

it divides the difference between experienced and mediocre

#

one of the reasons i dislike doom 2016 mp is cause of how slow u basically r

#

Titanfall 2 does it nicely just relying on Sliding to carry momentum

clever bear
#

Yeah I’m not mapping jump to the mouse wheel. If the timing is strict enough to require that, I’m not playing because that’s such a failure of ui

solar crown
clever bear
#

At any rate, requiring frame perfect timing to do an intended gameplay thing is garbage design. Quake 1 at least gets a pass since it wasn’t an intended mechanic in the first place

feral plover
#

Quake isnt abt good aim. thats secondary. The movement was what mattered

#

Ya bhopping can be refined maybe by other ways like lessening the need to be frame perfect and timing jumps and be a bit more generous

#

but no the design of bhop isnt hard to learn either if u just searched up a video instead of tefusing

elder viper
clever bear
#

If the skill gap is designed around the controls being awkward to navigate to the point that you need to do tight timings on things just to compete, the design is just garbage and should be thrown out.

feral plover
#

the movement of Quake 1 is great and bhopping is a not point required

clever bear
#

Yeah I’m more talking in general. I’ve definitely seen games where bhopping requires special weird input configurations just to work

solar crown
#

not with modern 60/144 fps

clever bear
#

I’m also still of the opinion that technical skill shouldn’t be the focus of a multiplayer game

#

Aiming at least has the factor of needing to try and predict the opponent’s movement (something they can mess with by changing how they move)

solar crown
#

that's still technical skill

clever bear
#

I know. I don’t love aim focus either

feral plover
#

quake has always been heavily technical skill

#

Positioning is important sure but thats cause Map knowledge of where consumables are, Red armor, weapon spawns, and quad damage dictate where fights should be

#

especially an Arena shooter not a Hero shooter or any of this sort where those games focus on Team work, Survival, etc. Arena shooters focus on the high adrenaline top fragging

feral plover
#

that could work

honest thistle
#

id like that

mint plinth
#

maybe as a metroid vania but not a full open world like Rage 2.

clever bear
#

I don’t care about games that emphasize keyboard gymnastics over strategy or tactical skill. I consider that kind of design dumb and frustrating. If you’re try to argue that Quake deathmatch is that, fine, but in that case I don’t care to discuss it.

elder viper
#

That would be boring

#

Only a few games work with the open world setting. Doom is not one of them

feral plover
#

Majority of open world games are boring as shit and dooms game philosophy doesn’t lend itself to that type of format.

elder viper
#

Only open world games I ever enjoyed where Ark, Fallout, and Skyrim

feral plover
#

Bro wants another halo infinite

feral lake
#

there's a mod for that

#

for classic doom

#

one in particular I'm thinking of is a mod that takes all the levels of classic doom, and connects them into one massive map

#

so instead of transition screens you literally walk to the next level, and there's usually monsters in between levels as well

#

also means you can return to previous levels

elder viper
#

Wish we had total conversion mods for Eternal

wicked pumice
#

Ok hear me out...

#

Doom 65

lean kiln
#

We haven't had a new IP from id since Rage in 2011. I'm down for Quake reboot or a new IP but I'd like a break from Doom tbh.

feral lake
#

ok hear me out...

#

Doom 4

feral plover
#

ok hear me out…
Commander Keen

elder viper
#

Hovertank 3D reboot

reef bolt
polar owl
#

At the Quakecon 2023 event I hope they announce an actual Quake game. Like a lovecraftian type game

rocky oyster
flat granite
reef bolt
#

Not gunna happen

inner isle
#

I've said this at least 20 times by now but I don't want the next Doom to continue the Slayer story

#

no matter what Hugo has said

#

as much as I don't like the plot of TAG it ended with something fitting, satisfying, and concrete

#

logically that should be the definite conclusion to the Slayer saga

#

so why immediately override it afterward

solar crown
#

I mean we need someone to get him out first

inner isle
#

no we fucking don't

solar crown
#

You can't just doom 2016 again

inner isle
#

Doom shouldn't constantly revolve around one dude anymore

#

I'm fucking sick of having this argument

solar crown
#

No i said it to "immediately"

inner isle
#

Hugo fucking ruined this franchise with his terrible lore that he just makes up on a whim

solar crown
#

Assuming he is the only lore writer

inner isle
#

this fucking attempted community nod that grew into a disgusting, repulsive, cancerous tumor

solar crown
#

Even if they wanted to bring him back we would first need a game to have someone that can atleast have a reason to go get him

solar crown
inner isle
#

I want Doom 3 2 goddammit

#

fuck this server for not having rules against people insulting each other

solar crown
#

maybe next game if they.... want to dive their reputation in the ground lol

inner isle
#

why can't this franchise experiment

solar crown
#

They did in 2016 and eternal, but now it's more known for the higher laced combat ig with doom3 being seen more as a black sheep

#

Why can't you play games in genres you enjoy instead of forcing it on a game series that have established themselves as something else revenantshrug

inner isle
#

fuck it

#

you people aren't real Doom fans

#

you're stuck-up narrow minded individuals that only know anger

#

fuck you all
ban me if you want, I won't give a shit

timid thorn
#

My suggestion for the next DOOM: Higher emphasis on actual rip n' tear mechanics. Guns will remain very important, but using your hands becomes a far more involved mechanic.

earnest current
#

i'd like a doom 3 esque game too

reef bolt
clever bear
#

It’s definitely too late to make the series not center around the Slayer. Good for the series or not, that ship has sailed

reef bolt
#

Exactly

clever bear
#

As for whether that was a good call, I’m of two minds. Part of me thinks a more anthology approach would’ve been better, but the other half loves the Slayer as a concept enough to be okay with the direction Doom has gone.
I do think that dialing back the arena combat focus a little would be a good idea though. Exploration aspects have always been a series component but I think Eternal sidelined that part a bit too much. 2016 struck a good balance in that regard

#

Note: a Doom 3 sequel as a spinoff could work, but not as a main series direction

elder viper
slim plinth
feral plover
feral plover
#

NuDoom has plenty of interesting worldbuilding, although TaG’s nonsensical twists do put a damper on it all

#

Still far from ruined and with TAG2’s ending essentially being a clean slate of sorts there’s plenty of room for the writers to improve or change what’s established already

clever bear
#

Kinda weird to say nuDoom ruined the lore since the series basically didn’t have lore before that. Doom 3 has story material but there worldbuilding is kept very simple and is extremely self contained

feral plover
#

Maybe they mean that modern doom’s expansive lore ruined the simplicity of old dooms setting

#

Which is valid I guess.

clever bear
#

I’d agree that Eternal specifically did overcomplicate things a bit. In a lot of ways I think 2016 strikes a good balance between old school and new school design while Eternal kinda goes a little too far from the series roots. Lore is one of those ways. The other big one is the massive chaotic fights versus the smaller moments. Big fights are good, but they get exhausting and not as fun when every fight is a huge arena battle with so little calmer gameplay to cool off between them.

feral plover
#

Eternal does have those smaller scale encounters, but gameplay is mostly paced via platforming and the fortress of doom, with some exploration being thrown in there as well.

#

It works extremely well.

#

Tag kind of suffers from what you mentioned but not too badly since it’s not super long and has its fair share of rest points (just not as long or as interesting as in the base game).

#

I’d be down to see Doom return to mazelike and puzzle oriented level design but there’d have to be some major improvements. I do like classic Doom quite a bit but puzzles and secrets were not a draw. Wall humping or scouring the map for a hidden switch just isn’t appealing to me.

#

I don’t see anything wrong with Doom eternals approach to level design is what I’m saying

spiral moon
spiral moon
woven siren
#

i think he's had like 11 repeats of the same 1-3 arguments in this channel

#

the rant is still unecessarily angry but i get where it's coming from at least

solar crown
woven siren
#

doomguy didn't even have a personality until 2016

#

unless you count the comics (RPGs maybe? haven't played the doom RPGs)

solar crown
#

Comics arent doomguy either, it's someone else

woven siren
#

then that means he didn't have a personality until 2016

#

if we changed protagonists from doom 1 to doom 2 i doubt it would change much other than the face in the center of the HUD

clever bear
#

So 5 out of 6 games canonically star the same character. Even if his characterization has been pretty flat for most of that time (though not nonexistent; the Doom 1-2 and 64 manuals and story screens give him some character) it would still be really weird to just ditch that protagonist altogether after 30 years.

woven siren
#

i feel like at this point, doom's image is just about being badass and fast-paced

#

you can maintain that with a new protagonist

solar crown
#

I fear that if they try something too wildly different qua gameplay it'll just be a flop

woven siren
#

do people play 2016/eternal for the lore

solar crown
#

Eternal was already like lightly controversial because people couldn't except that a good game can not fit their preference. Having it be another genre that goes in a too different direction would be too poorly percieved probably

clever bear
#

Think about it this way; Mario is a pretty basic character, but if you just replaced him with a new character, you’d better have a really damn good reason to do so. Doom isn’t quite as extreme, but the character is still very much the series’ face and people wouldn’t like him just not showing up

woven siren
woven siren
#

i get that

solar crown
#

Well mario is literally his name, but many side characters also have thwir games like luigi's mansion

woven siren
#

i wouldn't say "isn't quite as extreme" though, i remember reading an article saying mario was as popular as mickey mouse but that was in 2013

solar crown
#

The series is called doom, not doomguy. Aslong as like it has the doom vibe it's pretty ok

woven siren
#

just have a person in a cool-looking green armor with guns

solar crown
# woven siren wdym?

Lots of people that didnt like 2016 called it "bad", many not because they actually thought the game was bad but just because it didnt fit them

#

It's like saying dating sims are all bad games solely on the bases that you don't like them

woven siren
#

did they not like the gameplay, the atmosphere, or the story

solar crown
#

Mix of all

woven siren
#

ah

clever bear
#

I’d absolutely miss the Slayer if he didn’t come back, potentially to the point of resenting the character who replaced him, fairly or not. I feel confident that I’m far from alone there

solar crown
#

I'm not talking about a single person, but a group of people

woven siren
solar crown
#

Nah

woven siren
#

i play doom solely for the gameplay and just have the lore as a fun little side bonus

clever bear
#

My main thing with Eternal is that it feels too far from the series roots for my liking. Very arena centric with no real exploration element and minor combat feels like an afterthought when it happens.

#

I still like the game, but I worry about Doom losing its identity a bit

solar crown
#

All in all doomguy is kinda a fairly minor thing all in all qua character. If people would hate the fact that.... series have other protagonists i wonder more how fragile their love for the series really is if it's all based on that

clever bear
#

I don’t think a new protagonist would ruin a future Doom for me, but I’d probably still be frustrated

#

There’s a difference between “it would ruin Doom” and “it would bother people for little to no benefit”

solar crown
#

I think it's a rather incredible thing to be bothered with

#

It's like hating luigi's mansion for not starring mario as the protagonist or hating the dishonered DLC for playing as daud and not corvo

clever bear
#

I’ve grown attached to him. He’s a very basic character, but I’d be upset to not get to play him anymore, especially if there wasn’t a clear reason to take him away.

solar crown
#

Tag2
We kinda need someone to get him out of the coffin

#

Doom 2016ing this again would destroy the already damaged look the story has

clever bear
#

Fair. I don’t mind the idea of him skipping a game, but I very much mind the idea of his role in the series being over outright

solar crown
#

And honestly it wouldnt even need to be a "real" new character, i think clash from quake could be pretty decent

clever bear
#

It would be hard to justify lorewise, but what if we had the marine from Doom 3 be the one to find the coffin?

solar crown
#

Did doom3marine had any resemblence of personality?

clever bear
#

Not particularly

solar crown
#

Then i feel like, because of their slight resemblence as a "retro" doomguy (idk how to describe it) people could confuse them too much

#

It's practically a random character with nothing really behind it like clash

clever bear
#

Mostly I just think it’d be a neat callback. Doom 3’s marine looks nothing like retro Doomguy

#

Like they have vaguely similar body armor but that’s about it

#

I specifically mean the torso bit

solar crown
#

Being called "doom marine" doesnt really help either tbf

clever bear
#

Yeah 2016 reusing that term was weird and confusing

#

If the next game does a new character, I really hope they find a way to make him feel different from the Slayer mechanically.

#

Not sure how you’d manage that, but it would be weird if the new guy fought the same

feral lake
#

I'd like the next doom game to bring back Doomguy

#

He no longer has his godlike power thanks to Davoth's death

#

So he'd just be a regular mortal once more

clever bear
#

Doom at its best has a very “action/horror B movie” vibe. If they can nail that, then I’ll probably enjoy the game

solar crown
feral lake
#

True

feral plover
#

It would be cool to have an item that would make a demon your ally and fight other demons. With the power up quantity scarce like the crucible.

#

Like that one secondary bomb in Metal Arms

polar owl
#

Doom needs to be put to the side at Id (at least for a little bit) I really think that the lovecraftian quake needs to make a comeback. Who wants more strogg? Quake 2 was good but that's it. It kinda just felt like another Doom game in the sense it was a generic tech base in space but replace demons with strogg. If a new Quake 1 like game were to come out I would want it to steer into the atmosphere and dirtiness the first game had. While promoting things like b-hopping and strafing to tie it back to the games roots.

feral plover
#

I want the next games to show the character's face along with their reactions on the HUD like Doom and Quake 1.

#

That was always a fun feature. Haven't seen a game do that in a long time. Carmageddon had that too, and they got rid of it.

feral plover
woven siren
#

it probably simmers in his mind

#

honestly no need to get all riled up over what the next game in a franchise will be like

#

if it sucks we have the other awesome games in the franchise anyway, and if it's great then fuck yeah

feral lake
#

yeah it doesn't matter how good or bad the next game is, I'm still gonna be playing Doom II

feral plover
#

The levels are all beautiful.

#

There is a “reason” to explore and see everything compared to 2016

feral plover
#

especially with Id’s attitude of Baddassery in any game they make.

solar crown
#

the secrets are quite badly hidden and very non-complicated to get and calling that "exploration" is... a bit muddled if that's the right word

feral plover
#

the Slayer’s room with all my weapons, Toys, the album cover frames.

#

And each level in Eternal has something to see

#

Environmental story telling goes very hard. Theres always so much in the background

#

Compared to doom 2016 where most is a Mars landscape

solar crown
#

they meant qua level design, not qua looks

#

eternal is super linear, the most "exploring" you do is urdak/blood swamps going left or right

feral plover
solar crown
#

every other elvel just has... practically nothing, you just move forward and explore basically nothing except a "secret" a mere 10cm away from the path

feral plover
#

also if Eternal does go back to a more “classic” level design. The game may as well end up as a Semi-open world. Classic Levels in doom take 10 min to beat just because you r walking around a level thats much smaller than u realize

reef bolt
#

No one has the attention span for that

solar crown
#

i'd imagine it would atleast be more polished so it's more non-linear without being a bunch of backtracking to uninteresting, already cleared areas.
like a second arena phase for most places would work

feral plover
#

i dont think eternal is linear because its a modern formula. But mainly cause linear does keep players engaged to do whats next instead of “finding” the encounters

solar crown
#

did OG doom have a map btw?

reef bolt
#

Honestly that just sounds like rage lol

feral plover
#

every classic doom had a mini map

reef bolt
#

@solar crown you need to get on to the source port classic doom train and play some wads. You're honestly missing out

solar crown
#

kappa but i'm already too busy procrastinating

reef bolt
#

I feel you. I have have finished wads all over the place

feral plover
#

i do think some level design like classic doom with more Secrets that give supplies instead if usual toys and stuff would make the game more dynamic

But the issue with exploration in doom now is that u already have all your weapons

#

you arnt really Made to explore unless it is for those cosmetic and RPG elements

reef bolt
#

Ya no pistol start

feral plover
solar crown
#

i dont really like putting ammo solely on the ground tbf, mostly because it's too likely to be badly balanced in either being too tight for a majority of players or barely being a thing and might aswell be infinite ammo

feral plover
#

i wouldnt rlly care but it does contridict’s doom 2016,Eternals RPG mechanics

feral plover
reef bolt
#

The whole ammo formula id did great in nu doom. I don't think it's going anywhere

solar crown
solar crown
reef bolt
#

I just want different animations

solar crown
#

i'd like it to be more interactive instead of just an reload button that locks you in a 3 second animation

reef bolt
#

Exactly ya that's what I mean

feral plover
#

the “fast” glory kill rune should have applied with the chainsaw to be fair

solar crown
#

even then, that's a bandaid solution

#

like i mean dont get me wrong i still like this more then most ways to balance ammo

reef bolt
#

I think something closer to belch would work I like how fluid that is in combat

solar crown
#

maybe have it be integrated with the weapon mods

#

like shooting a weakpoint gives a bit of ammo

feral plover
#

Should be obvious Shotgun Zombies should drop shotgun ammo

solar crown
#

things like that but i dont have ideas for an entire list

feral plover
solar crown
feral plover
#

True but id like the system back nonetheless because classic did it and kinda adds to it

#

Shotgunner zombies serve no purpose than just a zombie with a shield

solar crown
#

their purpose is being your enemy

#

and possibly make it so that overcharging their shield/killing them without destroying the shield (either way) gives plasma

feral plover
#

Cannon Fodder isnt bad but them holding a shield serves no purpose than to explode by Plasma

solar crown
#

i mean they are pretty letal up close

feral plover
#

Shielded enemies like Destiny just shootin off the weak points to remove the shield is pretty interesting

#

Same way with Halo Jackals where u can shoot a little hole where their arm is to get rid of it

solar crown
#

a mix of them would be pretty cool

feral plover
solar crown
#

like some enemies have shield generators but a select few dont

feral plover
#

Especially if u just give em a grenade on the back they die

#

U dont even need to abuse plasma on em.

solar crown
#

fodder is supposed to be more weaker demons in eternal anyways that you can restock on without them being complete jokes (zombie not included)

feral plover
#

its why it seems better to do X demon gives X ammo. Theres so many cannon fodder enemies

#

zombie Soldiers can clearly give Rifle Ammo. Chaingunners for chaingun, Shotgunners for Shells.

And the more exotic weapons like Plasma obv have to be found or some other system to get to

solar crown
#

i would still like it to be actually interactive instead of just "kill enemy for ammo"

feral plover
#

Destiny has an interesting way to do cool downs on abilities. or maybe just my monkey brain of never playing warframe

#

Such as enemies dropping Wells, perks for finding certain ammo.

Then again game’s based around being an RPG and doom at this point basically is kinda an RPG

#

Id enjoy playstyles like having Mods to find more Plasma instead of Ballistics. Issue with eternal is u get so powerful theres no endgame to it.

#

Having limits, downsides, and Builds would increase replay-ability than it already does

solar crown
#

i think runes offer more then enough build variety

feral plover
#

most of the runs to me feel more like a setting that should be in the game or just vanilla entirely

solar crown
#

just because nudoom has some rpg elements doesnt mean we need a whole ass DnD system with subclasses and stuff

solar crown
#

air control sure, but pretty much everything else i think is quite suitable as rune

#

except also maybe faster GKs

feral plover
#

i prob only want this just because i actually like the RPG stuff in eternal

solar crown
#

probs but i'd love to have all the extreme annoyances that come with those systems to stay out

#

want a shooter rpg? play one, like i said before dont force a game series to be something they arent

feral plover
#

How are runes rpg elements

feral plover