doom-2016

[lament girder]

I can only imagine that would apply to exp shot and stun bomb

[winter stream]

those are what I have in mind, yes

[lament girder]

kind of a non-issue. the stun bomb has AOE and you barely need to take aim at individual targets and it takes all of 2 seconds to acquire a target with the pop nade and land a shot, which also has AOE.

it wasn't much trouble aiming with the grenade launcher in quake, these games are much more forgiving in that regard. at least projectile hitbox is more generous and you can shoot through openings in the geo much more consistently

i'll say again though 2016's centered viewmodels are absurdly sized on the screen. they mistook 'big guns' for 'big viewmodels that take up 50% of the screen real estate'

[winter stream]

I more just find it annoying than being a serious issue. Though with the explosive shot, there's definitely reason to land direct hits with those instead of relying on aoe.

[still lily]

classic pose yucky. literally pumping the shotgun blocks like 1/6th ur screen each pump

no thanks

i just change the viewmodel to be smaller. fov higher. perfect

[hushed vault]

the thing I hate most about the 2016 SSG viewmodel is the hand

like the whole section of it that's shown

it just looks like one big blob at that angle

[still lily]

luckily all it takes is one console command

[lament girder]

a lot of the 2016 models look weird centered but I main classic pose for the sake of visibility. if I want them smaller, hands_offsetpitch -3 does the trick.

[halcyon bear]

Classic pose best pose

[still lily]

nahhh

[winter stream]

Offset roll 90

[latent jewel]

Maybe I am mistaken, but in D16 none of the enemies weapons happen to be hitscan weapons. amiright?

[south junco]

no

[tepid jolt]

Not unless you count the Hellrazer’s laser cannon thing

[latent jewel]

maybe with the exception of the laser guy, but he also need some miliseconds to lead the gun. meaning they really wanted to push us players to play the way they want this game. this is almost insulting. if I recall correctly in doom1 and 2 you had pistol and shotgun zombies plus machinegun guys al using hitscan weapons -on top of enemeis who throw projectiles at the player. this made more diverse fights. well it seems then that this is why d16 gameplay does not feel like older dooms despite what devs said

I always felt smth wrong with that comparison

[elder meadow]

Is there a name for the “hell language” that’s written on things (and the loading screens) in 2016 and also spoken by one of the holograms

[tepid jolt]

I’d say Modern Doom is classic Doom the way people remember it

People tend to remember how something felt much more clearly than what actually happened

[still lily]

honestly im actually quite glad theres no hitscan. i mean. would it really be fun to just randomly get hit aimbotted across the map on UN?

newer wolfenstien is a pretty good example to how in higher difficultys it just becomes a stealth game/cover shooter cuz of hitscan

[elder meadow]

I'm jeoules i only have a Slayer action figure i want a doom poster

[tepid jolt]

Old Doom’s solution was to give hitscanners really bad aim and to almost exclusively use them in smaller fights rather than arenas. You still have to respect their sightlines but they aren’t just going to snipe you. Also they have the lowest damage per hit

[halcyon bear]

Doom collection isn't cheap I'll tell you that. Probably one of the more expensive hobbies out there

[raven forum]

anyone wanna play multiplayer

me

[latent jewel]

not all of them I mean Doom2 machinegunners would bring you down quite rapidly especially if you would try closed range attacks on the horde so you had to kill them first

[tepid jolt]

Up close sure. Not at a distance.

[latent jewel]

to the point that they would annoy you by shooting from absurd distances

[latent jewel]

well they would not dmg you as hard but would still annoy you because you could not dodge the bullets

[tepid jolt]

You still prioritize them, but at distance they can’t hit you most of the time

[latent jewel]

at mid range they were dangerous af already

the machinegunner from doom16 should have stronger explosions at least when they charge their weapon

[tepid jolt]

I do kinda feel like carefully applied hitscanners would make nuDoom better, but it doesn’t necessarily need them

[sage trellis]

Hey all I'm a ps4 user I came to find friends for snap maps

[winter stream]

I'm not on PS4 but I know some snapmap players who are

[sage trellis]

I'm horribly addicted but only play alone since it's not common to find people

@winter stream dude that's awesome I need these people in my life

[winter stream]

got a snapmap-focused server

[sage trellis]

I tried to find one but couldnt

[winter stream]

unfortunately, you need 1000 people for it to be a public server

[sage trellis]

Noooo

[winter stream]

but it should be easy to find on disboard

which is basically how smaller servers be "public"

[sage trellis]

Discord? Is there a way to search with it

Disboard*

[winter stream]

yeah

[wheat wagon]

Hello

[sage trellis]

I'll definitely look, you know the title?

[winter stream]

Doom snapmap

[wheat wagon]

I'm trying to Platinum

I published 5 snap maps and I did not get the achievement

[sage trellis]

Found it, ty bro

[winter stream]

np

[lament girder]

classic hitscanners operated as glass cannons

[tepid jolt]

Yup

[halcyon bear]

I still feel like a quick area of effect indication would be better as not to restrict a players movement options

[lament girder]

capable of dealing high amounts of damage up close but conversely easy to dispatch from a single well-placed shotgun blast

[tepid jolt]

But they were also inaccurate at distance, giving you a chance to snipe them

[lament girder]

doom was the only one to get hitscans right above all other fps of the era tbqh

others like duke nukem or more infamously fucking blood

[tepid jolt]

Blood hitscanners are evil

[lament girder]

made hitscans either too durable, too versatile and lethal and numerous, or easy by virtue of being blown away with a dynamite bundle toss or RPG shots in the case of duke

quake only had two hitscan enemies and one of them telegraphed their attack

the other was understandably an entry tier enemy

[tepid jolt]

Blood’s problem kinda ends up being that the projectile guys are kind of trivial to cheese so they beefed up the hitscanners to compensate

In a Blood remake I’d make the cultists slower while making projectiles have collumn hitboxes so you can’t just duck or jump to evade them

[hushed vault]

The Battlelords can fuck right off with their unavoidable chainguns

I tried using the steroids powerup and I still couldn’t avoid them

[tepid jolt]

I decided to give 2016 another go after all, and the movement weird bits aren’t bothering me like they used to. On the other hand, I completely forgot that shotgun grenades can kill you so that was an embarrassing death

[halcyon bear]

Just for now until you get environmental resistance self preservation

[tepid jolt]

I’ve decided to not get the mod upgrades in the name of having to be at least somewhat tactical

I guess I’ll do suit upgrades though

[elder meadow]

someone to play snapmap with me?

[tepid jolt]

Also no Argent buffs except the mandatory one

[winter stream]

what platform you on?

[lament girder]

the battlelord is a trash fucking enemy yeah

like a spider mastermind but even worse designed

[halcyon bear]

Jesus

[lament girder]

what? haha

the mastermind wasn't a particularly good enemy tbh

a platoon of chaingunners do a better job

[boreal stirrup]

yeah

[lament girder]

to reel it back on topic- I managed to get to argent dnur

[boreal stirrup]

i played on switch and the mastermind was really annoying

[lament girder]

hope i dont die mysteriously to OOB GKs

[boreal stirrup]

although at the same time its kind of hard on switch

im so happy i got eternal on pc instead

[lament girder]

the arena is pretty big and the room smack in the center provides more than good cover

1-2 shots should do her in

[boreal stirrup]

i hated the spikes during the gas attack that launch you off of the only pillars making sure you arent in the gas

[lament girder]

?

oh the 2016 boss fight

[boreal stirrup]

yeah

[halcyon bear]

I agree

Super rare seeing them used well in a map. But I've seen a few gems

[lament girder]

aaaand it's done

now to replay some of the classic maps and stand in awe at how bad they are

they should've had hell knights instead of pinkies

[lament girder]

they're only really well utilized as sniper turrets in long distances

i really like the design though

[halcyon bear]

Or infight friends. ie lullaby

That's where they really shine

Not the most fun when they're just these snipers. Seems lazy also

[boreal stirrup]

i wish the classic map enemies resembled the classic enemies in like colors or just the classic sprite enemies

[wet halo]

That would be weird

I guess Prodeus does it

[boreal stirrup]

true

[tepid jolt]

I love how the UAC slogans are weirdly upfront about the literally messing with Hell thing.

I love how goofy this series is

[elder meadow]

Also the fact that they named it the Big Friggin Gun

[elder meadow]

"Unlike everything else in your life, your work here matters

[snow heron]

I mean this is coming from the same company that made Mecha Hitler a final boss

[elder meadow]

I just cleared it on UV

[tepid jolt]

“The Road to Hell is paved with Argent Energy”

[elder meadow]

"Opening the gates of Hell to a brighter future"

[elder meadow]

I did a sketch of that in my journal the other day

[tepid jolt]

In Doom 3 I can’t help but notice the many ridiculous safety hazards in the way Mars City is designed. In this game I can’t help but notice how open the UAC is about the hellfire they’re playing with

[elder meadow]

X clound PC

[elder meadow]

Idk wheres my xbox

[tepid jolt]

At the end of the fight that introduces the Baron (then does it 3 more times for good measure), I quad rocketed the last Baron and he went flying into the sky ragdoll style. It was hilarious

[halcyon bear]

I've seen that glitch before haha. Very good time

[tepid jolt]

Also I kind of wish UN was Nightmare with pistol start instead of Nightmare with permadeath

[halcyon bear]

What do you mean pistol start?

Like every new area you only have a pistol ?

[tepid jolt]

Every new mission you only have the pistol, yeah

[hushed vault]

Exactly like how some people play classic

[tepid jolt]

Yup

[hushed vault]

Honestly the more I think about it the base concept of UN is just kinda cheap

I’d probably dip into the “not even remotely fair” angle classic Nightmare did but that’d probably be a bad idea for today’s gaming

[latent jewel]

UN?

[tepid jolt]

Ultra Nightmare

[latent jewel]

Ah, ok I am not accustomed with D16 'acronyms or what.

[latent jewel]

In d16 they could been adding so many interesting things in the game ie if you fall into the lava you are transported to some hellish arenas (those mini challenges) or directly to some hell map from the campaign. sort of like dark souls implemented the idea of dying, but different. when fighting on the Martian surface add helmet visuals and some stuff on top -ie if they would shoot you then slowly lose air -at least in D3 thay added those oxygen canisters -simplistic I agree, but at least they tried to add smth on top

[tepid jolt]

What?

[latent jewel]

You pointed out some flaws or weaknesses of D3 in regard to the design what I am saying is that a least they did not fear to try adding some variety to the game -unlike D16 which it seems the devs tried to make the game perfectly executed and running around just some basic principles, to the lack of variety

[elder meadow]

Ultra nightmare should have just had big handicaps instead of permadeath because let's be honest no one wants to go through thousands of deaths to complete it

[tepid jolt]

That wasn’t a criticism of Doom 3.

[latent jewel]

at least they could add all these optional in the menu

[tepid jolt]

I like pointing out the goofier aspects of each game as they’re part of the appeal for me

[latent jewel]

I am not defending D3 or consider it criticism just pointed out some things

no one ie would have been stopping the devs to add permadeath as a single separate game difficulty or mode

well they implemented arcade mode but does ppl play it?

basic campaign is already arcade imo just with the story on top of it

[hushed vault]

Maybe something like changing enemy behavior more than just making them faster

[tepid jolt]

Okay? I don’t really understand how your sentences are connected to one another. My point was that Ultra Nightmare is kind of a boring way to do an ultimate challenge and I wish they’d done a more interesting one like recreating the pistol start runs of the first 2 games

[hushed vault]

Like how the cultists in Blood all threw dynamite on the highest difficulty instead of only the green ones doing that

[elder meadow]

yep

[hushed vault]

Like make the plasma zombies throw grenades or something

And the shield ones can dash into you

[tepid jolt]

My favorite example of a really hard mode as a big challenge is DMC’s Dante Must Die mode. The gist is basically that enemies get the spirit buffs (in the form of an ability the player also has) after they’ve been spawned in a certain amount of time without dying. Bosses and certain big enemies aren’t affected but get extra health and new moves

[hushed vault]

Knights suddenly gain the ability to throw fireballs

Pinkies can jump toward you

[wise cape]

knights could always do that tho....

[hushed vault]

Not in 2016 and Eternal

Certain Imps are replaced with Prowlers

But the player can still stand a chance somewhat

The regular pistol is replaced with the Mark V from multiplayer

[halcyon bear]

Best way to play but I don't see it working in 2016

[hushed vault]

Maybe replace the plasma rifle with the lightning gun?

[halcyon bear]

Unless the power ups you have stay with the weapon even if you lose it per map nest situations but now it's your weapon

[acoustic sapphire]

this is actually really cool! I felt some of those environment deaths were way too anti-climactic for how hyped up the slayer was in the lore

[winter stream]

"X cloud on pc" or "X cloud and PC"?

[elder meadow]

X clound on pc

[winter stream]

I see. I'm guessing that counts as xbox then

I'm only on PC unfortunately

#doom-2016 message

[river wing]

Dark souls had a permadeath mechanic that deletes your save file if you died over 700 times (I guess). Thank fucking god it got removed

[latent jewel]

dying 700 times means though that either the player is drunk or too bad for computer games LOL; cant imagine else. if they delete save files after 10 deaths it would be a different story

[elder meadow]

lol they gave you 700 attempts

[river wing]

There are so many people who play the game not just once dude, like literal ng+7 or +8. For me it took 3 days to kill manus and only God knows how much I died. The cap looks really big at starting but it'll quickly fill up, considering that you'll die a lot in these games

[halcyon bear]

[elder meadow]

it's like a 1cc in a shmup

I wish there was some kind of post game in 2016. Thy Flesh, Master Levels, Lost Levels, Resurrection of Evil... nothing for 2016

[tepid jolt]

I guess that’s what Snapmap is for

I just accidentally skipped the airship fight in Hell on Mars by clipping through the floor into the monorail train area. I genuinely don’t know how I did that but given how stuck I was on that fight, I’ll take it. I don’t have the most recent update downloaded in case that matters

[halcyon bear]

Personally I'd just like a enemy mix up difficulty. Quad demons maybe increased aggression different enemies heavys more often even early game ect

[tepid jolt]

Like all in one, or as a “make your own” type deal?

[halcyon bear]

Mix it up type deal

Or all. Kind of like halo skulls

[tepid jolt]

I don’t know what that means

Oh okay. So like modifiers you pick and choose

[halcyon bear]

Ya to spice up the difficulty. Anything to prove skill more than tee hee I didn't die

Like classic you have options. Un is still a staple so I'd keep it

[elder meadow]

monorail made me so happy the first time I saw it. doom 3 reference. i love doom 3

[halcyon bear]

But some extra stuff too

[tepid jolt]

I like Doom 3 too.

[wise cape]

well, D2016 was suppost to be a sequel to it

[elder meadow]

Ikr bro
Really wanted some dlc or additional levels to the game
all there is to the game is the old campaign and snapmap

Well snapmap has great content but the base game needed more it feels like

[maiden jetty]

When I press the left shift key, does the doom slayer speed up or slow down?

I cant remember

it's been 1 year since i played

[latent jewel]

I think that some complain that gameplay in many games had inclined too much towards skill. Part of it is right. There is also a second category of arguably good design, as at lower diffculty games tend to become too easy. Ie the fact that most games tend to remove as much as possible randomization factors (which should be prerequisites to build the SP with that sense of adventure and replayability in mind, just to please maniacal attempts to break useless records by people who devs themselves seem in love with as well). Found an interesting video talking about this, and he have some points. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFFpJW0j5z0

Others made counter arguments videos. Opinons tend to vary.

[fossil island]

just to please maniacal attempts to break useless records

[latent jewel]

I use to watch from time to time jigsawkiller on twitch who is speedrunning RE games, but tbh I only watch it for the game feeling and to spend time. Most of what I been watching games at competitive level are quake demos from tournaments. Just a whole different level.

[halcyon bear]

I'm feeling more love for 3 by others lately which is nice . Love the aesthetic and 2016s. Just hits the spot

[still lily]

eh. with a few more modding developments could probably just make straight up DLC ourselves

also snapmap is only getting better as the days go by.

and more things are figured out

[halcyon bear]

I've found some real gems lately I should slap a list together

[still lily]

eh. moreso because of snaphak

[river wing]

I just feel so pity for the demons when the doomguy runs out of ammo because they think they are gonna win finally, only for this badass mf to pull out a chainsaw

[tepid jolt]

Do the merciful thing and keep your ammo topped off

[elder meadow]

I barely use it for ammo unless I have to. I always use it for pinkies I hate those things

[river wing]

Pinkies are just so annoying

[elder meadow]

way harder than the classic ones

[tepid jolt]

I chainsaw summoners on sight. The last thing I need is even more demons running around

[river wing]

Yeah. But one thing I love is mowing down the fat demons with my chaingun

[river wing]

I use a super shotgun for the summoners, possessed unwilling and that demon knights that are black in colour

[elder meadow]

yeah on my first playthrough that was my strategy for sure.

[elder meadow]

when you get mobile turret mod omg

[river wing]

So much satisfying it is

[tepid jolt]

A friend in another server pointed out how the map display resembles the one used in Metroid Prime. Something about the platforming feels familiar in that regard as well

[elder meadow]

yeah I've heard that before. I haven't played Prime since it was new, 20 years ago. But the map is similar I did notice the sound of opening the map is very similar

[halcyon bear]

That's where I recognized the map. Also played back in the day

[tepid jolt]

I think I know the answer, but just to check: the cyberdemon and mastermind can’t be placed in Snapmap levels can they? Because that sounds kinda fun

[latent jewel]

someone on the mod channel said that you can but have to declare them different entities

if I recall correctly

[winter stream]

Not without modding

[bitter aurora]

wsg gang?

[tepid jolt]

I’m on PS4 so the answer is no as I expected. Thanks for confirming

[halcyon bear]

I'm on pc and the answer is still no

[tepid jolt]

I mean that I can’t mod to make it work

[still lily]

no for what?

its absolutely 100% possible to mod in. just no one wants to do it lol. too much work for just. essentially a big missle launcher

[tepid jolt]

I think he means using Snapmap as-is

[still lily]

well duh

like terra said. modding only.

[tepid jolt]

That was my initial question. I haven’t used Snapmap but want to after I finish this campaign playthrough

[still lily]

we're still figuring out new stuff possible with snapmap everytime we log on.

still so much to figure out

like literally just yesterday we figured out a way to make a player look a specific entity. so like. force look at objects. Definitely useful.

[halcyon bear]

Are you in the doom 2016 snapmod server?

[still lily]

the only snapmap server as far as im aware yeah

im an admin there lol

i wish this server had a snapmap section. I'm still not satisfied with the #d2016-modding channel. The Admins here, said, and i quote. "We consider SnapMap THE way to mod Doom 2016"

even though... its not? Modding and Snapmap are completely seprate feats. They work together.. sure. but. idk that was kinda dumb

[halcyon bear]

The doom 2016 fan base here isn't large enough to warrant another section. This page is inactive enough already

[still lily]

Still would be useful to catalog map ids

inactive or not

[halcyon bear]

Just post it here. Mods won't care

[still lily]

ig that's what the snapmap server is for

[tepid jolt]

Btw how does Snapmap handle upgrades and the like? Like does it treat weapons and such as fully upgraded, unupgraded, or something else?

[still lily]

doom is so niche, and then of the small niche theres different even smaller communities so it just makes any form of doom unity almost impossible. Kinda sad. Like compared to halo where the only real segregation is bungie vs 343 fans. Here its even split just between each game itself. Im only bringing this up cause i wanna make maps and have more than just people in the snapmap server play them. just hard to grab attention.

[still lily]

theres the base weapons, and then the base modded and then fully upgraded.

[tepid jolt]

And then you pick what to implement? I like that

[still lily]

some mods are strangley missing for some odd reason. we're trying to restore them. Like siege mode and heat wave are possible to use... but dont work 100% correctly yet.

[tepid jolt]

I’m completely okay with siege mode being absent personally, but that is odd

[still lily]

probably cuz snapmap was built off of MP and only has MP mods and such like static field and shit

i wish bethesda gave snapmap just 1 more year of support so they could sort out the shitty map system (like why the fuck the featured maps just permanently there on the front page forever to be unchanged?) and add in stuff that just plain shouldn't be missing and absolutely would be easy to put in given dev tools.

without snaphak it'd be fully dead by now

thank the caco lord above that chrispy existed in this timeline to breathe life into snapmap

[winter stream]

To add to what telesnow said, the weapon mod variants are basically considered separate weapons that take up the same slot on the weapon wheel. For example, if carrying a base explosive shot mod shotgun and you find another variant like a base charged burst mod shotgun, you can pick it up and it would drop the explosive shot one you had. All ammo pools are separate for each weapon too.

[halcyon bear]

The majority of this server consists of doom eternal players. This server was considerably smaller before its launch. Many of them haven't played doom 2016 or if they did it was after doom eternal and dislike it for not being eternal.

[still lily]

still a very distinct community of people for each game. its weird

[halcyon bear]

Very true

[tepid jolt]

The games are very distinct from one another. I was an SF player for a while and similar thing there

[still lily]

Classic doom is all its own community and group within itself
Doom 3 has basically its own entire server and modding community
doom 2016 seems very seprated/forgotten but still has fans or eternal people going back to see what came before.
and eternal being the largest and most popular, at least was.

[left hornet]

yes.

[winter stream]

The largest group having the least amount of content to work with lmao

[still lily]

meanwhile in any other franchise its usually "this batch of games good this batch bad" etc. yet here every release breaks it off even more. "Calling all doom fans" means so many things lmao

[still lily]

💀 real

[tepid jolt]

Doom games have a pretty big shift in design each iteration.

[still lily]

Classic doom is open like an egg you can do anything with that pixel game. Doom 3 modding has came a looong way and is very impressive in its own right and snapmap and doom 2016 modding started so very slow but snaphak specifically is finally picking up.

and idk whats going on with eternal. more stat swaps and reskins ig

[halcyon bear]

Oh ya doom 3 mods are amazing. I'm playing one right now that makes it function like dead space. Very cool

[winter stream]

Apparently all eternal players need to be happy is the same campaign levels over and over with different enemies modded in and suddenly that's better than snapmap

[halcyon bear]

Basically just horde mode and new demons

Even that is basically dead

[still lily]

sad. ID... mod support.. plz

[halcyon bear]

They appealed to no attention span one game to the next people and they got what they asked for

[still lily]

make idtech 6 open source already

[winter stream]

Doom eternal is how it is because fans literally called for campaign dlc over snapmap

[halcyon bear]

Who the fuck called for that

[winter stream]

I saw that sentiment alot

[halcyon bear]

They just did it because they wanted to sell skins and passes and a new project

[still lily]

i cant even be strictly mad at id. cuz i do remember vividly just how many fans were just asking for DLC with no staying power. Like no one seemed to care about mod support other than the classic doom community. So they actually listened to the fans and it just ended up being a mistake. I would trade mod support for both dlcs horde mode battlemod all of it. ANYDAY.

[halcyon bear]

Nothing else

[halcyon bear]

What a fucking shame man. Looking at what prodeus did.. shit

[tepid jolt]

I get the wanting mod support over more campaign, but I also get wanting campaign levels since the average gamer is bad at level design.

[still lily]

the average gamer wouldn't really bothering making mods in the first place

[halcyon bear]

The doom community is so rich and full of vets the "average gamer" wouldn't have to worry about levels and maps if they gave us the tools

And they full on should have known that

[still lily]

a passionate well crafted DLC style campaign could absolutely be done by a team of modders if they just made it open for us.

Doom is only still relevant because of classic doom modding.. its just so out of spirit

[halcyon bear]

Probably in a week with some coffee

[winter stream]

There would ideally be enough who do make levels for those who don't to always have content to come back to

[winter stream]

A week? Lmao

Maybe 1 level in a couple weeks

[halcyon bear]

Give or take loll

[still lily]

Bethesda is the most pro-modding company i know so like. bro just let ussss. im begging. make idtech 6 and 7 open and just let us figure shit out. Or just release a document explaining the file system and how to make proper rigs. like bro somethinggggg.

[tepid jolt]

What I meant by that is that most of the player made content is going to be bad so finding the good content can be a pain. Case in point: Super Mario Maker

[still lily]

I'd who to blame. Is it zebimax? Bethesda? ID themselves? all of the above? The world may never know. It's just a tragedy.

[winter stream]

That's why you need a good browsing system. One that sadly is not present in snapmap

[still lily]

Snapmap is the same way though. 99% of snapmaps are garbage. That's why having a specific place to post Map IDs is so important

so you can weed through all the shit little jimmy made for the achivment lmao

[winter stream]

A big part of what makes and keeps snapmap dead is the map browser alone

[halcyon bear]

Doesn't help that it's a fucking achievement to publish one

[still lily]

literally just have a good browser. instantly 5x players

[winter stream]

Thumbs up and thumbs down is a shit rating system

[still lily]

guaranteed its sooo bad

[winter stream]

Meanwhile, with something like stars, you can browse by average rating

[halcyon bear]

Yup use the prodeus system

[still lily]

arrest whoever was behind that. I get that they want people to make maps. But absolutely no one is going to do anything with that. it should've been just Vote on 5 maps or something

[winter stream]

And not what wins by sheer quantity of activity

[still lily]

lol yeah. anything made in 2016-17 will just forever be top

[tepid jolt]

I wish I liked Prodeus. It has so many things I like

[still lily]

meanwhile if they simply jsut had a 5 star system with "highest rated" or "highest rated of the month" being on the front page. New snaphak maps could potentially be showed.

[winter stream]

There's a small indie game I play sometimes called creeper world 3 and it has a level editor where you can upload maps and the map browser not only has a /10 rating system but you can also filter out maps you've already played. So it's much easier to find newer, higher quality maps that aren't just at the top thanks to being made on peak user activity

[halcyon bear]

I do agree with you here. Although I like the map making sharing features prodeus just didn't click with me

[still lily]

creeper world made by one guy has better menu system

its joever

[still lily]

prodeus aint for me. Haven't really seen anything i cant do in snapmap already but better minus navmesh and maybe a few things tbh.

[winter stream]

What's wierd is that CW4 changed to a thumbs system too 😐

The only thing that saves it is that it still has the ability to filter out maps already played

[tepid jolt]

The continues thing was broken and there were too many guns but mostly the art style took about 10 minutes to give me a migraine

[still lily]

yeah god... the gun animations

low frames make me sick

[winter stream]

Prodeus is just far less of a viable base to make experimental gameplay because of its artstyle

[still lily]

im spoiled by 60fps

[tepid jolt]

I think it was different things at different framerates that was the big problem

[still lily]

meanwhile in snapmap we're making shit like "is this even really doom anymore tho?" like it aint even DOOM snapmap anymore. just snapmap

[winter stream]

While doom 2016s artstyle, can serve much better as a base for virtually any 3d game

[still lily]

soda drinker pro 2 must be finished

eventually

[tepid jolt]

30fps but consistent is usually fine. Guns, enemies and backgrounds each at a different framerate is a terrible idea

[winter stream]

It's all for the boomer shooter aesthetic

[tepid jolt]

I love the look of Doom 1-2, but it kept all objects at the same framerate so the lower framerate isn’t a problem

[still lily]

its called boomer shooter cuz just like in left 4 dead it makes me vomit

[winter stream]

Ultrakill 2 going to add 5 extra polygons to their enemy models and fans will lose their shit

Lmao

[tepid jolt]

Ultrakill is great IDK what you’re talking about

[still lily]

ultrakill definitely the best boomer shooter wannabe ive played. No purposefully shitty looking things, way more fast paced and readable. good game.

it has parries. is it even a question? Absolutely every game ever needs parries.

[winter stream]

Fr

[still lily]

people be like "ohh what about forza or something" bro parry their goddamn mufflers idc.

[tepid jolt]

I honestly don’t play many modern shooters. Mostly because they seemingly value different things from me. Ultrakill has the mindset of “make gameplay exciting and fun, then work out the other stuff” which is how you do a video game

[still lily]

The Finals is probably the best modern shooter ive played since Titanfall 2

BF4 is also a masterpiece (now)

all of these being pvp tho... i dont really like pve allll that much tbh. For pve to be fun for me the sandbox has to be large

[tepid jolt]

That being said, the only fps franchise I absolutely refuse to try is CoD, mostly because I have some serious ethical issues with some of the stuff they do.

[still lily]

huh. well cod is always consistently mediocre. Theres just as much of a hate train as there is a circle jerk. I grew up with it. The last one i liked was Cold War. Good CoD imo. It's just hit or miss.

[winter stream]

Mostly played cold war for the zombies tho

[still lily]

the pvp was fun as well.

i just like cold war era guns what can i say?

[tepid jolt]

Basically I refuse to financially support a series with a history of glorifying war criminals and accepting propaganda money from the US military. Like I said, ethics issues

[still lily]

i played mw2 and wanted to die for oil as a kid. luckily grew out of that phase.

did doom fortnite add the real Preator suit yet or is it still the Registered Predator Suit (Eternals)

[winter stream]

I just ||pirate|| games I refuse to support financially

[still lily]

vased

[tepid jolt]

Fair enough.

[latent jewel]

which makes a lot of sense I guess

[tepid jolt]

My idea for a Snapmap campaign (IDK if tying levels together that way is supported internally) is to make a series of Hell levels using only Doom 1 weapons and demons and have 1 mission for each circle.

[winter stream]

Yep, how snapmap handles connecting levels is that when you return to lobby after ending the current map, you get taken to a lobby for the next map.

And you can also carry over data across maps connected in this way in the form of "persistent integers"

[tepid jolt]

I’d actually prefer to have the player pistol start each mission, but that’s good to know

[latent jewel]

talking about weapons, I have to modify a bit decls for the shotgun bc it is too close to ssg functionality. in older dooms sg was efficient at long range and did not spread dmg if I am not mistaken

[tepid jolt]

Spread damage meaning pellet spread?

Classic Doom shotgun pellets spread 8 degrees left and right

[winter stream]

And does a dnd dice roll on damage output lmao

[tepid jolt]

Yup

[still lily]

i hate random bullet spread

needs to be removed from every game ever. Reducing RNG should absolutely be a goal for anything that claims to be skill based

though it only really matters in pvp. it was still absolutely annoying. Seeing every engagement was basically run by chance. especially with guns like the chaingun

[winter stream]

it's pretty wierd how HAR spread is higher in MP/SnapMap than campaign

[still lily]

Doom 2016 MP devs be like. "How do we balance guns for pvp?" OH YEAH make them.. more random?!?!?

why not just.. reduce the damage and make them perfectly accurate like.. what why

[halcyon bear]

Actually annoying because I love HAR

[elder meadow]

I hate cacodemons

[boreal stirrup]

i hate pain elementals

those are the real big meatballs we should be hating on

[tepid jolt]

Randomness isn’t opposed to skill. Too much randomness is bad, but removing randomness tends to make skills of improvisation and intuition impossible to meaningfully test as memorization overtakes them. Main problem with Chess. The only other way to have the needed uncertainty for such skills is in multiplayer using double blind (stuff like fog of war) where the unknowable decisions of another person add that uncertainty.
In other words, randomness is actually really important as a design tool, it’s just typically used poorly

[winter stream]

Even in chess, the actions of your opponent can throw a wrench in whatever planned strategy you have, forcing you to improvise.

[tepid jolt]

On paper, yeah to an extent. In practice the goal of Chess is to make the opponent’s decisions not matter. Chess is just complicated enough that it’s not altogether solved (yet)

[winter stream]

And in a competitive setting, there's timers.

[tepid jolt]

Right, which makes perfect calculation harder. The game is getting more solved and therefore more about memorization all the time though

[winter stream]

I'm sure AI will if not already has given plenty of insight to solving it

[tepid jolt]

Oh yeah there are already multiple ai that can beat the best players on earth 100% of the time, and have been for several years now

Randomness is one of the most misunderstood aspects of game design, and that makes me very sad

[winter stream]

Yeah I know that, but I more mean identifying the trends that these AI use to do so and come up with a consistent method humans can use

[winter stream]

well, it's more that when people refer to randomness, it's more offhand for specific categories of it, rather than all forms of it

[tepid jolt]

Yeah sure. We’re not fully there yet but that’s probably a matter of if rather than when. I kinda hope Chess 960 or a similar variant becomes the dominant form of Chess at some point (Chess but with random starting positions from 960 possibilities)

[still lily]

randomness is very much opposed to skill.

If i click on someones head. And the bullet randomly decides to go somewhere else. My skill has been useless and i die.

[tepid jolt]

Maybe not Chess 960 itself due to being made by Fisher, but something along those lines

Whether you can shoot straight isn’t an interesting skill anyway. And if the most interesting kinds of skills (imo) to test are the ones that are basically impossible to have at all without randomness. Also guns randomly missing is an example of randomness used poorly. A betting example would be gun spawn points spawning a random gun from a short list so you have to make the most of whatever you find

[still lily]

The human element and sandbox can make it feel random while also being fair. But inherent RNG mechanics are always opposed to skill. Team Fortress 2 is the best example of randomness at its worst in an FPS. Random fall damage, random crits, random bullet spread???

[tepid jolt]

Again, those are examples of careless use of randomness

[still lily]

definitely not careless. they deliberately added them.

Show me a good example of RNG in an fps game

that benefits the pvp experience

[winter stream]

https://tenor.com/view/fortnite-fortnite-memes-fortnite-meme-daredevil-matt-murdock-gif-26148297

[still lily]

NOOOOOOOO

[tepid jolt]

In an FPS? No idea I barely play FPS games. An example in a different genre is the fighting game character Faust. He has a move where he throws a random item, none of which actively harm him, all of which create sudden choices for both players that usually benefit Faust slightly. This means Faust can’t only use the most beneficial ones and has to adapt to what he gets.
Another example is Chess 960 that I mentioned before, where the random starting positions force players to figure something out instead of relying on a memorized opening.

[still lily]

that sounds annoying af

the fighting game mf

imagine he just gets all the good rolls during a tournament lol and you win

thatd be trash

[tepid jolt]

That’s not how it works. The different possible items just force him and the opponent to make a decision they weren’t prepared for. It doesn’t automatically give free damage or whatever. Also doing the move at all is itself a risk so he has to earn the chance to do that at all

[elder meadow]

How do I unlock rune spaces I'm literally 8 missions in

[still lily]

In pve I'd say good randomness exists to shake up the gameplay (obviously speedrunners and completionists hate it) but it has its place. In PvP randomness has no way of being completely fair and therefore should never be in pvp competitive games unless they are specifically designed for casuals/family in mind

[halcyon bear]

[winter stream]

by your own admission there's apparently "most beneficial" items that you could get.

[tepid jolt]

Yes, but only marginally so.

[still lily]

still could mean the difference

between a win or not

[elder meadow]

What's the highest score on turkey puncher do you get anything from it

[tepid jolt]

Sure, but maximum fairness is secondary to being interesting. RNG is fair in the sense that it’s available to all players and usually involves choosing to take a risk.

[winter stream]

don't you unlock more slots as you get more runes?

[elder meadow]

Yeah I just got one lol

[still lily]

no sadly. idk the scores tho.

[elder meadow]

Alright I'll just go to 5000 lmao

[tepid jolt]

Anyway I have things I need to do. Not like this is going to change anyone’s mind regardless. Bye for now

[winter stream]

you have to complete 4 rune trials to unlock a second slot

and 7 for a third

[still lily]

rng should just always be avoided in pvp

enemy players already make it random enough being humans

don't need game mechanics to push that and ruin legitimate skill based gameplay

[tepid jolt]

I still disagree but I think nothing is to be gained here

[still lily]

well like you said you dont play fps games anyway. So im coming from a competitive players perspective

And getting screwed over by RNG ruins games that otherwise would be great competitive ones.

remember when halo added bloom lmao

almost killed halo esports

and kinda did tbh

[elder meadow]

Which chaingun is better 2016 or Eternal

[tepid jolt]

Well with the final point that I played Guilty Gear competitively for a while so I’m thinking in terms of esports as well, yes let’s move on.
Is that bit in the Argent Tower specifically programmed to kill you or is there a point where any fall just immediately jumps to fatal?

[halcyon bear]

Eternal has a cheese shield

[elder meadow]

Definitely eternal
but doom 2016 mobile turret mod looks sick

[wind crown]

Aren't both mobile turrets the same?

Actually I think 2016 had 3 barrels, while Eternal had 4

[elder meadow]

yep

and 2016's mobile turret has the cool heating up animation

the barrels turn orange

and when you master it you can fire it eternally

the mastery

Sometimes I forget I can punch lol

What's the bfg button

[tepid jolt]

Triangle. Y on Xbox

[elder meadow]

T, that's weird

[winter stream]

the mobile turret mod in eternal felt kinda weaker than 2016's. I'm almost certain that it doesn't quadruple the damage output but rather each shot deals less damage.

[elder meadow]

true
2016's turret shreds barons

[elder meadow]

Level 8 done WOOOOOO that final part took way longer than it should've

[still lily]

2016 better in everyway because it actually sounds like a chaingun and not a peashooter

[tepid jolt]

How do I dodge the Guardian’s shockwave?

I’ve beaten the game before but I don’t remember how to do this part

[tepid jolt]

I managed to win the fight by having enough health to take the hit and heal before being hit again

[halcyon bear]

Better gun in general

[spice falcon]

doomslayer is a pitbull and every demon is a child
bigger demon older child

[tepid jolt]

This isn’t Hell; it’s a kindergarten. Doomguy is the pitbull

[elder meadow]

im new to doom

[tepid jolt]

Hello New To Doom, I’m Molly

[inland steppe]

my friend just spoiled the ending of this game for me, the fact that ||you get stuck in hell||, is this game still worth playing?

[tepid jolt]

The story barely matters at all; it’s very much gameplay first

So yes absolutely

Also that isn’t that much of a spoiler since almost half the game is in Hell

[elder meadow]

Yes the gameplay is fucking awesome

[elder meadow]

I’m starting 2016 on nightmare
Send thots and prayers

[elder meadow]

No, only 4/13 levels. Very little hell compared to the classics

[tepid jolt]

Certainly feels like more than that

[winter stream]

I don't even think you get sent to hell in the end

[boreal stirrup]

[elder meadow]

Meanwhile eternal

[winter stream]

2

[tepid jolt]

3, since Nekravol is 2 parts.

[elder meadow]

Never mind this is stupid

[winter stream]

aside from Nekravol 1 and 2 what is the third

[tepid jolt]

Exultia. The second half at least

[winter stream]

ah

[elder meadow]

I forgot eternal has earth turned into hell

[winter stream]

Still not technically hell yet

[proper ermine]

almost

[dense radish]

Any 2016'ers tryna queue up Multiplayer

[latent jewel]

Inherent RNGs are not necessarily opposed to skill. Take poker as an extreme example. Consistency over long periods of time is more important then absolute skill in just a certain day. Like Molly said, a certain degree of randomness is necessarily to make the game unpredictable and fun. A certain degree. Like you said abt headshot -a good random design would add between 2 and 3x dmg to head, which regardless the end number, would still kill in one shot. In contrast, the body shot is kind of boring if it kills imps every time. Even real life situations in wars there are countless cases in which a shot to the body would not kill an opponent. The pure skill idea without randomness is designed especially for record breakers and competitions and should stay in those games who are 100% oriented toward this. If ppl are obsessed with skill then Doom SP should not be their game of choice. Even talking about competitive games. Quake3 ie was refined over the years to reduce as much as possible random elements from the game, so called balancing the game. The end result was that at some point even pros got bored with the game bc gameplay was so glued to perfect execution that you could lose the match from just one tiny mistake. One missed rail at a crucial poin in the match on dm6 you lost control of the map and game over. But this is not my strongest argument, just side observation should be noted that even competition if it is completely based on perfection might end worst.

[winter stream]

It was about competitive games, which doom sp is not

[latent jewel]

At dm there is also not good to focus entirely on fixed values or refinement. Some degree of unbalance can be good. because else too much skill trumps over IQ. In QuakeLive at some point they increased the power of the SG so you could use it in a defensive manner more efficiently. It balanced a bit the gap between good players and very good players and made for a more diverse fight style. We would still win but not just so decisively. Before that patch and after that patch (this was removed bc pros and so-called elites complained) I could just completely destroy the usual players doesn't matter how good their positioning and general knowledge of the map or how innovative they were with just pure dodge and aim. Like a friend of mine said to a quite smart guy in gaming: I know that I am not that smart, but don't push me because you know what they say that ambition is the weapon of the stupid.

Being this said you observation abt pure "skill" is valid to a certain limited nr of competitive games CS style

[still lily]

pretty huge wall of text. imma just say what i already said. Randomenss in pve has its place aslong as it isnt overused or bullshit. But randomness in PvP has absolutely no place, and having it is a failure of game design.

Which is why i could never get into Doom 2016 MP. the random spread on literally half the arsenal is sooo bad

you basically have to be up directly in their face, touching them. for rng to not be a factor. Which, good luck.

PvP should be as fair as possible. and i don't feel like thats a hot take.

I should make a DOOM MP rebalanced mod. so i could host actual fair tournaments

that would be fun

[latent jewel]

It has nothing to do with "fair". Since both players are bound to the same rules. An increase in randomness determines the winner based on consistency instead local behave at this very specific time. This is why randomness to a certain degree have should be accepted in both game types. If you are better than your opponent as a whole (not just aim and dodge) you would still win, unless you are a complete moron. Generally speaking not saying abt you but you know what I say

[still lily]

it has everything to do with fair. Lets say you are both using chaingun... you both are equal distance from eachother and you both shoot the same amount of shots. Yet they get better spread RNG and win.

what was fun about that?

[proper ermine]

Way too cold

[still lily]

randomness is just a plague on competitive fps games. The casual gamers wont notice but to anyone that is actually good, it stands out and sucks

you could even have spread like thats fine, just make it predictable and repeatable. so you can master it. Or jsut get rid of spread all together and make fighting recoil the issue.

[latent jewel]

And it also depends on the complexity of the game played ie in DoTA there are so many elements that you can implement perfect values bc there will be many unpredictable moments but in games like quake and doom mp it should not resume everything to just aim and dodge. I could see this in the beginning until I got at aim and dodge at their lvl I could not beat the opponents regardless of my creativity and strategic approach. The most successful games to the public are based on randomness and most games based on pure values are closed systems although they have their player base this is nowhere close to the other category. And usually ppl who use the excuse that they dont want to dm bc random values are in fact not that good for dm regardless. People tend to dislike consistency bc they are bad at it. At a certain point a game refined too much toward fixed values will cripple intelligence in favor of pure execution. The irony of this part is that AT ANY GIVEN POINT in a pro match, when the value of the two opponents is close, it is still the RANDOMNESS who would determine the final outcome. bc the human factor is also random. From a psychological point of view the fact that you can blame yourself rather than the game in the long run will just put you down and make you develop low self esteem. This is why so many pro players are f_ed up. To put it simple a bit of randomness and unpredictability of a game increases its competitive value by rewarding consistency and innovation. If you are not a pro player I dont see other reason as to ask for randomness removal rather than to just trump over absolutely beginners with impunity. Which is a weakness by itself.

[still lily]

human factor =/= RNG
dont conflate the human element with game mechanics. The inherent "randomness" of fighting players is what already makes it fun and unpredictable. You don't need random game mechanics on top of that. I find being competitive fun. I like dying because I made a mistake. Not because someone got lucky.

with skill based matchmaking in new modern games being a thing, players automatically keep up with your skill level. So getting rid of RNG is even more important. Since there's virtually no more noobies to stomp once you get your bearings.

that is a funny quote "To put it simple a bit of randomness and unpredictability of a game increases its competitive value by rewarding consistency and innovation"

Sooo randomness rewards consistency? We just making shit up now huh?

No. RNG ruins competitive games. When halo reach added weapon bloom to precise weapons its literally killed esports and competitive halo games. they had to remove it to garner any competitive attention again. RNG kills pvp fps games.

[latent jewel]

Like as I already said, take poker as example. It is more extreme to easily see the difference. This is no make up stuff. On the long run you cannot blame it on "luck". There is the interactive factor between the human element and game mechanics which goes somewhere along these lines that unbalanced gameplay build balanced players while the opposite is also true: too much balanced mechanics create unbalanced players from a psychological point of view. This is why to be a good poker player you need a strong character. While in the pro gaming industry where everything is "balanced to kingdom come" these pro kids would snap for just anything. I repeat, I am not against balancing things. It is just that the obsessions toward balancing gameplay have become a cultural norm being pushed by "balancing" absolutists to such a degree that it started to permeate SP players as well. It is not like this trend did not go in one direction for over a decade by now. And what we got? Ppl still complaining about too much "hazardous gameplay".

[halcyon bear]

Your friends wrong. You do not get stuck in hell at the end of this game

[elder meadow]

It was already hell in 2020 Doom just adapted

[tepid jolt]

Lol.

[elder meadow]

Rumored Next doom game will be Doom Fights Demons infected with Corona Virus

[boreal stirrup]

i didnt really like the hell levels in 2016

[halcyon bear]

Shame

[tepid jolt]

I think the hell levels are the highlight, much like in Doom 3 or Eternal. Certainly from an aesthetic perspective. The only Mars level as strong as the hell levels designwise imo is the Foundry. The other Mars levels aren’t bad but they don’t rise to the same heights imo

[halcyon bear]

Titans realm is one of my favorite doom designs ever

And that intro music

[tepid jolt]

For the sake of transparency I should acknowledge that I like the Hell environment in concept better than techbases to begin with

[boreal stirrup]

i like the mars base stuff especially the first few levels

[tepid jolt]

This is the only Doom game that I consider to have only good levels

[spice falcon]

do runes last permanently

[tepid jolt]

Yes

[spice falcon]

what the hell did I just say

can you deactivate them?

[tepid jolt]

They’re kind of like RPG equipment so yeah you can turn them off

[spice falcon]

yay

thanks

[magic prawn]

How do I make borderless work? I cant move my cursor away from the game screen... I also cant press the windows button

[winter stream]

Alt + tab

[tepid jolt]

The more I play with Snapmap, the more frustrated I get with how much it doesn’t feel like the campaign. While the inability to make the player character be the Slayer in single player is irritating, as is the lack of bosses, the most frustrating thing is how they did the thing where you can only carry 2 guns at a time. I hate when any FPS does that, and it feels so out of place in a Doom game especially

[winter stream]

the weapon wheel is available when you give a loadout with 3 weapon slots or more. You can carry up to all 15 snapmap weapons at a time

also, you can force praetor suit customization on player if you go to Publish settings, go to "Map Information" tab, and check the box that says "Use Campaign Models"

and before you ask, yes, you can also remove damage numbers and hitmarkers, by activating a Gameplay Settings object. Through there, you can also enable the health/armor/ammo drop tables the campaign uses for killing enemies

[atomic horizon]

Cacovirus

[tepid jolt]

Oh, that’s good to know.

That addresses my main problems with it. Thank you much

[winter stream]

no problem

[winter stream]

tbf when snapmap first released, it was missing those features, and probably played a big role in the immediate disinterest in snapmap. By the time they released updates to address those complaints, it was already too late.

[tepid jolt]

I’m still trying to update the game (the download is taking forever because I live in a rural area) so I’m currently still using 1.0
Thanks for clarifying. I think I’ll mess with it further after the update finishes downloading

[winter stream]

ah ok

[tepid jolt]

I’m trying to build a pseudo slaughter map as a way to learn the ui better

[winter stream]

there's definitely some wierd quirks with the editor controls on PC

[tepid jolt]

Idtech 6 can’t handle a true slaughter map though, so it’ll be as close as I can get

[winter stream]

some signs that the UI was designed with controller in mind more than M+K

Though I still use M+K because it is faster

[tepid jolt]

Yeah the whole “create an invisible game object to change various settings” is a weird way to handle that

[winter stream]

the reason it does that is to allow for the settings to be changed at any point during the map

[tepid jolt]

Huh.

[winter stream]

so if for some reason you wanted to enable hitmarkers or damage numbers at a specific time, you can do that

[tepid jolt]

My main experience with making Doom levels is with Doom Builder so this is wildly different

Btw do the Snaphak resources include stuff for Hell levels? The base components are very techbase only

[winter stream]

like props?

as far as props go, yes.

[tepid jolt]

Props and walls.

[winter stream]

does your version of snapmap have the Hell category of props?

[tepid jolt]

I don’t think so.

[winter stream]

ah

current version has plenty of hell-themed props even without snaphak

but snaphak adds even more that are lying around in the game's assets

[tepid jolt]

Does props include the module structure and such?

[winter stream]

oh right, there weren't any hell-themed modules on release, were there?

[tepid jolt]

None whatsoever

[winter stream]

yeah lmao

I'm glad I got into snapmap a year after doom 2016 was released or I would have ditched it like everyone else it was so primitive

there's a full set of hell modules available

[tepid jolt]

Very good, very good

I need to sign off now as I was supposed to be in bed a few hours ago. Good night

[winter stream]

gn

[elder meadow]

Cyberdemon dead

The easiest boss in the game

I can't wait to get to the hell guards lol

[sharp harbor]

imo the hell guards were a little harder than the cyberdemon

[spice falcon]

I kept dying on them because I refused to dodge their attacks

pretty easy if you do them correctly

[halcyon bear]

Most fun fight for sure

[spice falcon]

the second phase is fun

the first phase is bs

sometimes my bullets wouldn't do damage even though the shield hadn't appear yet

[halcyon bear]

Rough

[spice falcon]

yes.

is it doommarine, doomguy or doomslayer

[halcyon bear]

Doomguy or doomslayer. Doom marine is the hero from doom 3

[spice falcon]

wait

but the doomguy toy shows the doommarine model

[wise cape]

I have no idea why ID keeps on calling Slayer "Doom Marine", and unless I get a valid reason I will be dying mad about it

[spice falcon]

which is the doomslayer

I'm so confused bru

so the doommarine isn't the same dude

[wise cape]

yeah, but for some unknown reason ID sometimes calls DoomGuy "Doom Marine", despite the nickname being given to the Doom 3 protagonist by fans

[spice falcon]

sbahfwjfhagd

sick

ok thanks my life is now complete and I'm going to hell

[wise cape]

same

[spice falcon]

which demon you gonna be?

personally im thinking a revenant (I really like bombs)

[wise cape]

screw it I'll be either Vagary or an Imp

[spice falcon]

cool cool

[elder meadow]

by "lore" doom 3 doesnt fit in the doom timeline

[wise cape]

Doom 2016 was suppost to take place in the Doom 3's universe, while the Slayer was the DoomGuy from the previous universe (Doom 1-64). However this was cut when Eternal came out

[elder meadow]

i see

[snow heron]

There are parts of Doom 3 that could/probably are canon though which is cool

[snow heron]

Think that’s more of an Easter egg then anything

And to be fair Doomguy is a marine so the name isn’t to far off

[wise cape]

yeah Ik, but it still doesn't make sense. Especially when it's done in-game, plus it just feels like ignoring that the Doom 3 protagonist exists, and I can't think of it as an Easter Egg since it's like, for example, if there were two dudes, one of them is named James and other Johny, and because John isn't around you suddenly start calling James John. Prob not the best example but ya get it

[lament girder]

ID confirmed Doom 3 is a separate timeline altogether.

Even Tim Willits in the promo material for Doom 3 touts it 'Doom as if Doom 1 and 2 never happened'.

Eternal takes place after 2016, which comes after 64, which comes after Final Doom, which comes after Doom 2 and 1.

[wise cape]

yeah, when Eternal came out they did, but before that Doom 2016 was gonna continue on it, while connecting the older games
and yeah D3 was a reboot, pretty much a retelling of the original story. But well, the Slayer is the same person as DoomGuy, pretty much Doom 1 to 64 take place in one universe, while 3 and 2016 take place in another

[lament girder]

Where did you get 3 and 2016 take place in the same universe... ?

[wise cape]

forgot where exactly but it's stated somewhere that 2016 is a sequel to Doom 3, taking place 4 years after the events of 3

[lament girder]

Doom 4 was a direct sequel to 3 that got scrapped/repurposed into 2016.

[wise cape]

not sure about the scrapped Doom 4 being a sequel (hell, it looks more like a prequel), but yeah somewhere it's stated that D 2016 takes place after 3, which is also why they're similar when it comes to the atmosphere

[lament girder]

it still doesn't make sense. the only thing to go off of is the fact both games take place 4 years apart. tech and lore wise, both the UAC and hell in 2016 are vastly different from 3. If anything, the whole 'ancient martian civilization that uncovered a powerful tool to counter hell's forces' seems more in-line with Eternal having a citadel smack in the center of Mars.

it also doesn't explain how they directly address Doom 3 as never happening in the main timeline in both 2020 and 2004.

that's confirmation from two different points in time and very, very hard to dispute.

[wise cape]

I don't get how it doesn't make sense, but alright. I'd say that the UAC is different, but not hell itself too much (granted, D2016 don't strike anything in me, while D3 hell does)

[lament girder]

you prove to me it does. I'm waiting on proof.

[wise cape]

what?

[lament girder]

the visuals in 2016 make sense from a design standpoint. doom 3's visuals are diegetic and easy to navigate visually for players in 2016 vs the colorful visages from classic doom. they wanted to play it safe, and what better to do so than revisiting the previous' game's more grounded artstyle with higher fidelity.

[wise cape]

as I've said: Doom 3 was a reboot, but the DoomGuy was from the original timeline

[lament girder]

I'm not contending that. I'm taking interest in you claiming 3 and 2016 are 4 years apart and taking place in the same universe when they expressly, definitely aren't.

[latent jewel]

unless planet Mars is not planet Mars

[lament girder]

there's no mentions of the crucial plot points from Doom 3 transpiring in 2016. Nothing other than easter eggs and nods to (what was then) canon.

no soul cube, no security bots, no locker combos, no betruger, nothing.

[wise cape]

Doom 2016 was made years later by different people, of course not everything's gonna seem the same

[lament girder]

then the argument is moot. it's stated in 2016 hell servers as junction for other timelines.

[wise cape]

the SoulCube on Olivia's desk, the statues that mention the D3 events, ext

[lament girder]

this means 2016 and 3 are not only years apart but an entire universe's worth of space aside.

[lament girder]

1- an easter egg

2- no such thing.

is box art doomguy holding the soul cube on the tablets in Doom 3 canon also?

[wise cape]

it's literally in the game

[latent jewel]

But Doom2016 machinegun zombies are clearly inspired from quake2 machinegunners, they even make kinda same death sound. It is quite probable that the devs did not bother to build a strong story around their games. Arguing on these pointless things is kind of useless. They took the D4 project modified it, added removed things and used older asets and so on. Ie the laser guy look a like like q4 monsters.

[lament girder]

you could've from started there if you believed that to be tangible proof, just saying.

[wise cape]

originally Doom 3 was kinda going to reference the D64 events, this is a plothole, esp since D64 never used a SoulCube, but it's there

[lament girder]

?????

[latent jewel]

"plot" :)))

[wise cape]

my reaction to this conversation honestly

[lament girder]

that's the thing, throwing 'retconning' accusations around like it mattered in any way is counter productive. ID makes the plot for their games last, and build the gameplay from the ground-up first.

[wise cape]

that's the most hilarious thing I've read today, sorry

[lament girder]

Daisy appearing in TFC was also technically the first retcon in-universe since she was only established to be Doomguy's pet rabbit in Doom 2, which came after TFC.

[lament girder]

do I care?

like, you haven't brought up a single piece of evidence other than a date which is nebulous at best, and easter eggs that serve as nods to the series more than anything solid. and you have the gall to laugh at me?

I don't know what you acting so derisive all of a sudden is meant to achieve other than me discarding whatever little you had in the way of an argument.

[wise cape]

yeah I'm done here, if you want to believe that D2016 wasn't a sequel to D3, go ahead. no matter what I say you're just gonna refuse it, c ya

[lament girder]

that's what I get for expecting a logical exchange on an official Discord server.

[wise cape]

if I remembered where it was stated you would've refused that, I really don't have the energy for this

[lament girder]

no, we could've agreed it was interesting.

but here you are throwing the towel lol

I mean, I know what I'm saying for a fact and everyone knows it already. whatever you would've brought forth would've been cool regardless. but nah.

still, hope you have a good day besides this. sorry if I came off as needlessly combative. I just wanted to know more about what you knew.

[wise cape]

listen, I'm sorry. I know there's evidence that they were connected before Eternal, but I can't recall anything because anything relating D2016 is foggy to me (mostly due to me not exactly being a fan of the modern lore and just not caring enough). If I do recall something I'll let you know

[wise cape]

and it's ok, kinda having hard time recently myself so

[lament girder]

I'm sure there's remnants of it somewhere too. 2016 was them trying to find their footing in resurrecting a dormant series and they weren't even certain whether to create a new timeline with nods to the classics, or a follow-up to it.

[lament girder]

you're fine. I probably get into many more heady arguments than I'm fit to.

[wise cape]

with multiverses there's a way, but I'd rather just have them say that it's a reboot and make it easier for themselves and us

[lament girder]

I mean, the praetor suit well into the 2015 E3 demo was still human-made vs 2016 swearing up and down the suit is hell-made.

[lament girder]

the multiverse thing is something supported by the new wolf series, though we don't know for sure if the current wolf and doom games line up.

that's why so many action writers clutch on multiverses nowadays, easier to come up with stories and piece it all together as you go along vs having to take the brunt of creating an entire storyline with events that lead into one another organically

[wise cape]

there's also soft reboots too

[lament girder]

yeah. videogames have historically struggled with story follow-ups a lot. the zelda timeline for instance is a complete disaster despite 'experts' doing their best to make heads or tails of it.

[wise cape]

true, I think Hitman does a good follow-up from what I've seen, even if it cuts out the "black sheep" out of its canon

[lament girder]

at best you may get nods and little references that may or may not line up with previous events, it's all left in the grey areas until they fully decide 'aight let's bring this element back from the older entries, it's gonna invoke nostalgia and make people hype whilst giving us the opportunity of redoing the same story beats'

[lament girder]

very true. but also that's mainly due to the hitman games being very, very low on plot like Doom is.

actually, Doom might be a little less incomprehensible as far as IPs go in that regard

compared to most other revivals out there, Doom's plot cohesion is quite straightforward

it's just eternal and 2016 introduce so much new stuff it's hard to remember/figure out what's going on.

[wise cape]

they both still had plots, just not as complex. but yeah it's pretty easy to make a follow up to it. Would've loved to see Crash and Phobos

[lament girder]

tell you what they may choose to make Doom 3 canon again one day. Tim Willits isn't... very reliable considering his past claims to fame like singlehandedly creating deathmatch. LOL

and new ID and old ID don't share much in the way of DNA and creative leadership save for... I think Stratton and Kevin Cloud?

so I'm not ruling out your idea. I personally just think it's not likely at this stage.

[wise cape]

lol, it'll prob happened, only to get thrown out again. Ironic that apparently Doom Eternal was suppost to be "more story focused" and it throws out the game that had probably the best story in the series

[autumn raptor]

watching this start looked like a war and now i just picture you 2 in doom helmets smoking a joint together. respect on the maturity during the argument

[wise cape]

I guess friendships are created out of wars

[lament girder]

that's very true actually. animosity and passion are what friendships are made of

you don't meet likeminded people without putting yourself out there first.

[wise cape]

that quote at the ends for some reason reminded me that apparently there's unfinished (and unpublished) Doom 2 artwork of two marine smoking together

[lament girder]

WHAT

also why isnt this called 'bepogger'

[wise cape]

apparently there was an artwork being made (prob for the multiplayer) with two marines together but it never got finished

[wise cape]

guess cuz of the truger

[autumn raptor]

I really hope they put that out one day cause it'd be a sick wallpaper

[wise cape]

highly doubt it, hell I'd be surprised if they still have it

[halcyon bear]

We had to campaign just to get the few doom 3 emotes we have now

[wise cape]

oh damn :c

[tepid jolt]

Argent D’Nur is an absolute gauntlet

[lament girder]

can you link me to it if there is such a thing?

i'm curious now lol

[wise cape]

lemme see if I can find anything, honestly a lot of the things are a lost media when it comes to Retro Doom, I prob don't even know the half of it

[lament girder]

😭 it's ok

you mentioned 'lost media' and I went neuron activation

[wise cape]

lmao.

yup, can't find anything , I guess it was probably either written in a manual, or the internet just hates Retro Doom (would explain why it's hard to find fanarts, esp for Doom 3)

[lament girder]

suffering

it's okay

[autumn raptor]

[cold root]

imagine the multiplayer-exclusive Harvester appearing as an enemy in Eternal

[wise cape]

also, apparently, the DoomGuy on the statue in Doom 3 is suppost to be a "nameless ancient Martian hero that single-handedly defeated the forces of Hell" rather than DoomGuy, I guess from the sounds of him keeping himself in hell I though that it was kind of following the D64 events. Well I guess that means either D64 was never intended to be related to Doom 3, or D64 did happened, but I guess that human race just kind of died out eventually or something, and are considered "ancient Martians", kinda how the dinosaurs are ancient, well expect that they a different species

[tepid jolt]

Alternatively they found stories of the original doomguy and confused the two and depicted the martian hero as doomguy by mistake.

[wise cape]

that actually sounds like something that could happened, after all not only was the UAC cheap, but the the staff were, as Betruger said (kinda), "incompitent" (after all, they mistaken hammers for chainsaws)

[snow heron]

It’s possible. Even though Hell didn’t start calling Doomguy “Doom Slayer” till after the fall of Argent D’Nur. Surely Doomguy was gaining notoriety in Hell before he arrived in Sentinel Prime

[tepid jolt]

That crazy guy with a shotgun keeps killing us! He’s the Hell Slasher (working title)™️!

[snow heron]

The Archdemons brain storming titles to give to “that human that keeps killing us”

[cold root]

The Demons' Worst Nightmare

[wise cape]

LMAO-

they prob called him mortal or some shit before he became a demi-god

[cold root]

I like how the lore says the demons fear the Slayer yet in gameplay, even during the face of death, they still attack him and are just your typical violent fps monster

[tepid jolt]

You will notice most of them do their damnedest to keep their distance though

[wise cape]

fr, what's funnier is that sometimes when I play D64, the demons sometimes seemingly just run away from me

[cold root]

not only that, if many of the demons DO manage to kill the Slayer, they unleash their own glory kills on him

[tepid jolt]

I figure they know running won’t save them so they decide to try their luck at getting him first

[cold root]

the Revenant rips his arms off, slaps his face with one of his arms multiple times before punching him in the face

[wise cape]

yeah

[cold root]

scared shitless lore-wise, being full of anger gameplay-wise

[tepid jolt]

Those aren’t mutually exclusive

[wise cape]

it's one of the reasons I'm not a fan of the "they fear him" thing, sure Slayer is killable, but apart from that it's.... I dunno I guess I'm just not into the idea of playing as someone who is heavily feared (despite being the pure evil itself, thus you really shouldn't feel fear in the 1st place) but yet they procced to attack him (and this isn't Luigi's Mansion but reversed case)

[cold root]

well, in Eternal, some demons like Arch-Viles and Pain Elementals clearly show fear as you are about to glory kill them

[wise cape]

yeah Ik, I guess the only thing they fear is you thing is suppost to add to how badass the Slayer is (even if in my eye, DoomGuy and Doom Marine are much more badass than the Slayer, that it feels like DoomGuy being turned into the Doom Slayer feels like a downgrade), but I dunno, I like the music, but not the idea of literal hell fearing something

[cloud sparrow]

Anyone wanna play the multiplayer mode, just noticed it

[halcyon bear]

It's warranted to have some sort of reputation after the events of 1 2 and 64. If you want the no fear thing doom 3 is the way to go

[wise cape]

Oh Ik, what I meant is that I'm not kin on hell itself (pretty much the pure evil) fearing him ||actually the idea of him being considered annoying cuz "bruh why do you keep on stopping us" is funny||

[halcyon bear]

They've been steam rolling civilizations and creatures for eons and then they can't stop this one guy. I'm sure that would cause some sort of confusion haha

[wise cape]

Fr, I can picture Satan going "oh goddamnit it's that one asshole who keeps stopping us, somehow...."

[spice falcon]

if it weren't for you meddling slayers.....

[tepid jolt]

The way I see it, the original Doomguy is kind of like Rambo, surviving and overcoming impossible odds through ingenuity and skill. The Doom Slayer is more like Robocop: a normal (badass) human who becomes an unstoppable force of vengeance thanks to a twist of fate

[halcyon bear]

Yup that's nails it

[boreal stirrup]

i like og doomguy but slayers pretty badass as well

[elder meadow]

i like bothe equally

they are both caked up fr

[boreal stirrup]

goated with the sauce

[wise cape]

just imagine almost every version of DoomGuy stopping hell ||even tho I made an AU about it but that's fanmade||

[dawn iron]

Lunatic/Silent Golem

[red spoke]

Do you guys know any skin mods for the slayer in DOOM 2016?

[still lily]

huh. No. But they are possible

im (very) slowly working on a halo armor mod

that replaces all mp armor with halo sets

[red spoke]

Cool

But i was thinking about skins for the singleplayer only

[still lily]

well im sure you could retexture his arms and how he shows up in the preator suit screen

[red spoke]

huh

[still lily]

haven't tested much though

[red spoke]

Im going to search moddb or somewhere else, if i manage to find anything ill send here

[still lily]

please do. I'm interested to see if theres any other modders for this game. theres so few nowadays

[red spoke]

https://www.nexusmods.com/doom/mods/34?tab=files

Pretty much the only one i could find

[proper ermine]

looks quite nice. it would be awesome if this was actually a skin in 2016 and eternal where there's just blood over the suit

[red spoke]

I think the collectibles in game, which are all miniature doom guy´s re skins, could also be used to replace the default doom guy skin, ya know?

[elder meadow]

there are many cool doom mods on nexus mods

there are also master level mods for d2016

quite fun to play

[halcyon bear]

Love it

[restive eagle]

Sup yall

I haven't played either Doom for a while but now am slowly getting back to it

how is 2016's multiplayer doing lately? Any active players here?

[proper ermine]

barely i think

[restive eagle]

bruh what

[elder meadow]

it takes on average about 15 minutes to join a game

from my experience

[white elbow]

I've been looking for like 10 minutes. What mode is most active?

[spice falcon]

15 minutes...

bro I'll just play against bots at that point

[thorn granite]

I think it's the most alive on pc

[wraith tangle]

team play

[elder meadow]

quick question, does doom 2016 have paid dlc or are they all free updates

3 more levels

[fossil island]

They had DLC's for the multiplayer, but now they are all "free updates" or rather included in the normal game.
No extra single player content tho

[elder meadow]

Thanks

[elder meadow]

Actually the hell guards aren't that hard

Hell Guards dead

looking to 100% the game

[past pelican]

cursed

[still lily]

i remember seeing this. hmmm damn. sad.

all this is is a single decl change. so, mustve already been a skin within the files just needed to be specified.

imma look into actually retexturing the mf

ig after the halo mod for MP cuz thats way easier

[winter stream]

one of the best PvE level editors out there

[elder meadow]

eternal mancubus looks ugly as helllll

[wise cape]

could say that for almost every enemy in Eternal

[tepid jolt]

Eternal’s manc is basically just the Doom 2 manc with modern graphics and a few new tricks

[wise cape]

technically that's what Eternal was going for, for a more "nostalgic feel/look"

[tepid jolt]

I think most of the designs work. The 2016 manc is kind of cute in a way though

[halcyon bear]

[still lily]

real

[elder meadow]

Alright last level, I'll save it for later today

I've had a blast with this game

Definitely deserving of all the love it got
And then Eternal just expanded on that

[halcyon bear]

It's good to see some truthful well deserved love for this game after 2 weeks of bs verbal and mental diarrhea hate from randoms

[wise cape]

so in conclusion: no Doom game is actually safe if it's not Eternal or 2

||at least I haven't seen any hate towards D64 so far||

[halcyon bear]

It was there.. also happy bday doom 64

[wise cape]

yeah I've heard that back when it came out it was just kinda disliked for being "behind the time" or something, but apart from that I haven't seen anything recent, but knowing the modern fanboys I can imagine they hated on it

[halcyon bear]

Had alot to do with holding the source code and 64 only

[wise cape]

I guess it makes sense, well at least it's playable on PC now

[elder meadow]

So far I've loved all the Doom games I've played
3 episodes into Doom 1, beat the mancubus boss in Doom 2, played some of Doom 3 on the original Xbox, 1 level left of 2016, and played all of eternal

Haven't played 64 yet but I'm excited to

[cold root]

2016 and Eternal are a lot of fun, never got bored while playing them

and Doom 3 is good

I feel like Classic Doom games are outdated but they are fine

[elder meadow]

I'm gonna play both 3 and bfg version

[tepid jolt]

3 has some pacing issues but is pretty solid overall

[elder meadow]

not to mention the absolute banger soundtrack Tweaker

[cold root]

my only real complaint about Doom 3 is that it's too easy, even on nightmare

[tepid jolt]

My personal favorite Doom is the original. Fast, good level design, and keeps things simple while still having plenty of variety, especially in Episode 2

[snow heron]

Seems a lot of hate was moved to Doom 3 after 2016 came out

[cold root]

Doom 64 is the most fun out of all the Classic Doom games imo

[snow heron]

I'll always prefer Doom 1 out of the classic games but 64 is still very good

Midway did a good job

[tepid jolt]

Scratch what I just said. Plutonia Experiment is my favorite. Made excellent use of the monsters for some frantic combat

[cold root]

I still can remember that quite a few parts of Plutonia literally made me rage when I first played it

[tepid jolt]

Plutonia is also fairly difficult

It’s usually fair about it, but occasionally just does something needlessly mean like how map 10 starts with a chaingunner shooting you in the back

[cold root]

I had more fun with No Rest For The Living than base Doom II

[tepid jolt]

Base Doom 2 wasn’t great. Mostly because of the stupid city levels

[dawn iron]

Must be skill issue from myself then

[vital ginkgo]

hey guys im stuck on a level any tips

[tepid jolt]

Arena or are you lost?

[dawn iron]

Shoot It until It dies

[vital ginkgo]

thanks

[elder meadow]

rip and tear until it is done as king novik said

[tepid jolt]

For specific advice, for arenas try to remember spawns and have a plan for each wave. For navigation see if there’s anywhere you haven’t checked and do so

[dawn iron]

Btw u can use the rune that gives armor on glory kills

Keep using the heavy cannon on enemies such as IMPs and zombies so you can glory kill them

Or Just use the super shotgun lol

[elder meadow]

Welp that's it, Doom 2016 done

[boreal stirrup]

2016's bfg thing was very confusing at first

i couldnt figure out what to do

i thought you just had to wait out the lasers

[summer merlin]

Playing doom on switch door half opened and only opening half way cant get though on foundry

[river wing]

Did you exterminate all the 4 gore nests?

[summer merlin]

Door is right infront of nest

[elder meadow]

Blue door? Or just a regular door not opening

[river wing]

The door where you see a hologram throw out a body, and the door itself is blocked by flame right?

[elder meadow]

Turn 180 degrees from the blocked door and there's a jump you have to make. After that you grab the dead man's hand, jump back and then go to where you see a handprint scanner at the left side of the door

[river wing]

Exactly do that @summer merlin ||also I've finished the game🔪||

[elder meadow]

oops accidentally pinged you

[jovial coral]

me too

[elder meadow]

Do I keep the secrets if I leave the level after getting them

[elder meadow]

yes as soon as you get them youre free to quit the level itll save them

[elder meadow]

Alright good

[tepid jolt]

Beat the campaign on UV. Mods, suit upgrades, and the mandatory Argent cell were the only upgrades I took. No optional Argent, no mod upgrades, no runes, and no seige mode. The game kind of feels like this was the intended experience even though it isn’t

I had a bunch of trouble but it was ultimately a lot of fun

[tepid jolt]

I’m now starting a Nightmare playthrough with the same rules. Not sure out of a love for challenge or a hate for myself

[wraith tangle]

oh wow. das crazy. low armor is hard

[tepid jolt]

Also I put my one Argent upgrade into ammo. I’m not sure that was a good idea. Also I don’t think I ever found the siphon grenade

[tepid jolt]

I just died by throwing a hand grenade that bounced off a wall back at my face

[halcyon bear]

Sounds about right

[tepid jolt]

That death felt like a digital Darwin Award

[latent jewel]

we are all "random" so what is the point of this

[wraith tangle]

you have the default discord icon. So some people may be more random than others

[still lily]

npc dialoge

[boreal stirrup]

fr

[crude bluff]

Every DOOM game I feel isn't safe outside of honestly Ultimate DOOM (Only things I hear about Ultimate DOOM is episode 4).

DOOM II's complaints are the level design

DOOM 64 is sort of being a black sheep compared to Ult DOOM and DOOM II

DOOM 3 is different from the classics in general

2016 is moreso now getting a bit more criticism after Eternal as some Eternal fans believe it improved on everything from 2016. And I heard some complaints back when it first released is that the game drags on near the end and that of course, the OP weapons are way too OP and can just be used throughout a playthrough with no incentive to change.

Eternal isn't safe mainly because of 5 things commonly repeated through criticisms: Story direction, Not a DOOM game (more a reskin), Creativity isn't allowed, Resource Management and platforming (Mario Bros FPS)

These are what I heard for criticisms of those games. I love them all, these aren't my own criticisms (I may share a few though).

[fickle radish]

I feel I have no complaints about Doom 2016, aside from Imp Fireballs

Fuck Imp Fireballs

[cold root]

while I enjoy DE's gameplay, I can see why some people didn't like it

a friend told me it was like the developers didn't wan't players to have fun in ways they want

[snow heron]

Doom 3 is considered more of the "black sheep" then Doom 64. In fact I've seen more people say that they prefer Doom 64 to Doom II.

[crude bluff]

I don't want to do DE discussion here but I feel the exact opposite and i feel creativity is a lot more apparent in Eternal than 2016. (I love both games though don't get me wrong)

[fickle radish]

If we cut out the Tomb Raider part of Doom Eternal, then it's close to an ideal experience for me

[tepid jolt]

Imo 2016’s upgrades kinda make the game less fun to play but I don’t really have any other noteworthy issues

[crude bluff]

I think weapon balance is my biggest issue but even then I play with all the weapons balanced or not lol so I don't really try to abuse the bigger ones in any way

That's just my playstyle though

I think a issue I can agree with in a sense is that the atmosphereic colors are mostly red, orange, and yellow but the game is based in Mars and Hell so it's also understandable

[cold root]

all the new gameplay additions to DE requires the player to have more physical skill, which can make the game tiring from having to do lots of stuff in quick succession

[halcyon bear]

Great breakdown

[tepid jolt]

I feel Eternal kinda over complicated things a bit but that and I wish ammo management was more long term are my only real issues there.

[fickle radish]

I agree that ammo feels weird in Eternal compared to any other game

[halcyon bear]

For that I'd just like more chainsaw refill animations

That's about it

[crude bluff]

Same

There should've been ones at certain angles exactly like glory kills

[halcyon bear]

Absolutely

[crude bluff]

Instead of in front and from behind

Honestly I wish Eternal had 2016's secrets and I wish 2016 had skippable cutscenes (Though they are VERY immersive, I wouldn't skip em anyways lol)

Opening secret levers and small doors/vents would've been great in Eternal in stages like Arc Complex and Mars Core

[south junco]

Tbh I don't notice the resource management in eternal anymore, it always feels like I have a chainsaw charge whenever I need one

[crude bluff]

^^^^^

[tepid jolt]

Something I feel Eternal lost is that sense of there being a hard cap on how much ammo you can get in a level because you can always chainsaw for more. In previous games, if you’re going into a fight with 8 shells, you can’t go through more than 8 shells in the fight, so it becomes important to make every shot count

[cold root]

despite some complicated stuff, I think all the new stuff added to Eternal makes for a more fun and skill-based combat compared to 2016

[crude bluff]

That's a very reasonable take

I think they do ammo management different of course, but it's confusing when people like to say resource management wasn't as much of a thing in older titles when it's just being handled differently

[tepid jolt]

It can also be interesting when you don’t have a certain ammo type so you have to find a way to play around not having access to your shotgun or rocket launcher or whatever

[crude bluff]

Like E4M1 for instance, is notorious for it's management of health pickups and ammo

At least I think so

[cold root]

I'm not lying when I say DE has probably some of the most fun combat in any fps I ever played

[tepid jolt]

Just the lack of healing in e4m1

[halcyon bear]

Love eternals loop. You should definitely play dusk in that case

[tepid jolt]

I do still like Eternal, but I do wish they’d made refilling anmo less trivial

[cold root]

I actually bought that game some months ago

[halcyon bear]

Did you play it yet?

[cold root]

no, I'm busy finishing other games I play

[halcyon bear]

I do that too haha

But ya dusk is fantastic. Don't let it collect dust

[tepid jolt]

I also want to recommend Viscerafest. It has a very Build engine vibe but with strict ammo management, healing for melee kills, and some really well designed enemy types

[cold root]

speaking of Eternal's gameplay, imagine playing 2016 like it's Eternal
not increasing your ammo so it stays low and having to chainsaw enemies constantly

[crude bluff]

Hard to do

[tepid jolt]

The Build engine aspect is mostly the art style and tone

[crude bluff]

Chainsaw doesn't refuel, and since I'm so used to having to chainsaw for ammo I forget about ammo pickups in arenas

Though it's very hard to runout of ammo in the first place

I still get ammo pickups in Eternal anyways, but I use chainsaw for ammo majority of the time (with barrels) vs. mainly getting ammo from ammo pickups and then chainsawing an enemy just to get a quick kill

[tepid jolt]

I don’t take Argent upgrades in 2016. I enjoy having just barely enough ammo and needing to sometimes use a suboptimal weapon because it’s what I have ammo for

[halcyon bear]

Interesting

[crude bluff]

Is that like Brawler mode? It sounds very fun

[fickle radish]

We also have infinite ammo pistol

[tepid jolt]

I don’t upgrade mods either, but all weapons and all mod’s except Seige Mode are fair game

[cold root]

yeah, it's the most useful weapon in the game!

[crude bluff]

I still have yet to beat 2016 UN, and play that game on Nightmare in general, though I plan to once I get done reaching a million in the infinite arena mod lol (for Eternal)

[cold root]

stronger than the bfg!

[halcyon bear]

I can't see myself playing without tac scope now. I have to much fun with it

[crude bluff]

I still want to learn how to use it in 2016

I'm used to micro missiles in that game

[tepid jolt]

Oh I get tac scope. I just don’t upgrade it at all

[halcyon bear]

I'm putting together a montage because obviously rockets are better but I feel scope is more versatile and fun

[crude bluff]

I use all of my mods in Eternal outside of chaingun shield and sometimes lock on for a quick kill, and plan to do the same for 2016

[wraith tangle]

so 2016 also has ways of getting infinite ammo like you'll get shells if you're suuuuper low but you're right that it's far less obtrusive

[south junco]

Siege mode with infinite ammo rune for ez win

[crude bluff]

How do y'all use gatling rotator... genuine question lol

[south junco]

I don't

[crude bluff]

It seems like the laziest mod they added to the game

[south junco]

I use mobile turret

[cold root]

I didn't use the sticky bombs in 2016 much compared to Eternal

[halcyon bear]

That's a mistake haha

[crude bluff]

Same, I like that beefier aspect lol

[halcyon bear]

Someone here did the math even mastered it's still doing lower damage

[tepid jolt]

I use rotater to ready the chaingun while turning a corner or throwing grenades

Mostly because mobile turret always seems to get me hit

[crude bluff]

Mobile Turret in both Eternal and 2016 is fun.

[cold root]

I wouldn't be surprised if Eternal players that went back to 2016 either tried to dash or shoot at an enemy's weapon to make them weaker

[crude bluff]

lol I did yesterday

[south junco]

Iirc the mobile turret gives you less movement speed when deployed right? So using the chaingun regularly would allow for increased movement speed so the rotor just allows you to prepare it so you don't have to wait for it to wind up each time you fire

[halcyon bear]

The complaints.. man I don't know what's happened to people's muscle memory lately

[crude bluff]

Played the last mission for fun just to get that 2016 feel, I only input a dash once though

I use A LOT more gauss cannon boosting than I ever did before though

[fickle radish]

Might be fun to do the reverse, Eternal with only 2016 tools

[cold root]

eh

[south junco]

Eternal but only allowed to play it like classic doom

[cold root]

then it would be just 2016 but more

[crude bluff]

Lol no bounce pads or jumps

[wet halo]

What’s the enemy that makes you think the most

[cold root]

none

[crude bluff]

In 2016, probably the shield gunner LOL

Fuck them guys

[cold root]

oh yeah, the Possessed Security

[halcyon bear]

Nightmare imps

[fickle radish]

^

[wet halo]

I don’t like that they changed the engineer name to cueball

[cold root]

the ''fire plasma rifle at the shield to make it explode'' strategy doesn't apply!

[halcyon bear]

You can still use stun or heat

[south junco]

Hmm, tbh probably the chaingunners in eternal make me think the most

[cold root]

I'm not even sure if the Possessed Soldiers and Eternal Soldiers have any differences stats-wise

[south junco]

Well the chaingunners have those yellow indestructible shields

[wraith tangle]

the numbers being the same wouldn't even matter. Weapons deal different damage. it's all relative

[south junco]

So I kinda have to stop and think for them, usually to lob a grenade behind them

[fickle radish]

Imps pathetic in Eternal

[south junco]

Every other enemy I fight through instinct

[cold root]

I like the Eternal Soldiers more than Possessed Soldiers for the same reason as the Tyrant

they are Classic Doom Zombies but HD

[south junco]

Yeah

[elder meadow]

i dont like that they added hands to the cacodemon in 2016

[cold root]

it's honestly hard to think of any Classic Doom enemy that returned in Eternal that isn't made to look like its classic counterpart

except Barons and Hell Knights

[halcyon bear]

They're vestigial and usless. Kinda liked that. Like human tail bones

[wet halo]

Vestigial but from what

[elder meadow]

doesnt the original caco not have hands?

from og doom

[cold root]

it doesn't

[fickle radish]

Cursed image just for you Blazar

https://i.imgur.com/gdvwMIU.jpg

[cold root]

Doom 64 Cacodemon does have hands

[elder meadow]

oh god

lol those skinny legs wont support the weight of that thing

[halcyon bear]

I've seen videos but the orginal species that was corrupt ( new doom lore )

[wraith tangle]

I think it was hugo who said that 2016 imps became eternal's gargoyles

[snow heron]

Well that can't be right since Gargoyles are seen to have been in Sentinel Prime before the events of 2016. Also aren't Gargoyles the only demons not native to Hell?

[wraith tangle]

Balance wise

I don't mean that the species evolved or whatever

[boreal stirrup]

i hated the pinkies in 2016 because i never knew you had to shoot them in the tail

[south junco]

really? I felt like the game communicated that to you pretty clearly

[elder meadow]

they take a million years to turn around after charging

[dense kayak]

It wasn’t rlly spelled out for u, I think I finally understood by beating a bunch of them

[winter stream]

there was an armor impact effect when you shot the front

[south junco]

well I mean, isn't there a visual effect if you shoot them from the front? like your bullets bouncing off them or something?

[dense kayak]

There was one rune trial I fucking sucked ass at

So I learned through that one

Cause the final round had pinkies or maybe second to last

[dense kayak]

Yeah…in my defense if I’m ripping n tearing fast I don’t see that effect quickly enough to get the hint tho lol
(Also I played on Switch)

[south junco]

ahh

[jagged geyser]

Hey guys I just posted in general but I’m sure this might be a better place but I wanted to know if anyone could help me with a problem? I’ve gone to steam discussions and Reddit to read and post about my doom (2016) crashing on start up and I have no idea why. Every fix I’ve found and tried haven’t worked for me

I just want to rip and tear again

[proper ermine]

i have no idea how to help but you could try #community-support too

[jagged geyser]

Thank you I will try

I wasn’t sure where to go

[light ginkgo]

I'm not sure if this helps but Bethesda support website says If you are experiencing crashes when trying to play DOOM, you should first check to ensure that your machine meets the game’s minimum requirements here.

If you meet the game’s requirements, you can try the following troubleshooting steps:

Update Graphics Card Drivers
Remove Additional Launch Options
Verify Integrity of Game Files on Steam
Set Primary GPU
Get Latest Version of DirectX
Check Firewall or Anti-virus
Change In-Game Settings

Sorry I play console idk PC stuff

[jagged geyser]

Yeah I’ve tried all of those and except the firewall or anti virus thing as I have no idea what I’m looking for. Nothing pops up as doom being tagged by my anti virus

But i appreciate you looking but I’ve literally tried looking everywhere and idk

[light ginkgo]

I'm really sorry I couldn't help more hopefully you get the issue fixed soon ❤️

[jagged geyser]

Yeah hopefully

[boreal stirrup]

i skipped past the tutorial message on accident

[cold root]

do you guys think 2016 and Eternal feel like boomer shooters?

[elder meadow]

what