#classic-doom

1 messages · Page 119 of 1

crystal hill
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a lot of one map wads have something that justifies them being included

twilit rock
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It would encourage them to make more vanilla wads

crystal hill
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can't believe I'm batting for this, hipster that I am, but myhouse.wad is absolutely massive

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one, technically two maps long

crystal hill
twilit rock
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it does feel kinda biased towards gimmicky things

twilit rock
crystal hill
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At least in the late 2000s through to mid 2010s, the cacowards are better at picking quality than in the past. I don't look at the ports used to play the wads because they don't matter to me

mortal silo
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yeah i never start up doom
wonder what i should play
and then go searching for gimmicks & 1 level wads
those feel like tech demos and not like actual full-on releases

crystal hill
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sometimes you want something different, or quick and breezy

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there's a good supply of megawads in each cacowards, particularly these later ones I've been playing through

mortal silo
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anyhow, my highlights for this past year are
purgatory, earthless, skulltiverse 2, combustion, forlorn, sunset irrelgion, & sunless empire
there were a lot of puzzle / art releases too that i did not touch but look great

crystal hill
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I'd love to comment, but I haven't played any of them, and the way I'm playing wads, it's gonna be a long time till I get to 2024's wads

twilit rock
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what level was this

twilit rock
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when will map makers realize brightness level 0 is not a good difficulty challenge it's just annoying

crystal hill
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if I can't see anything I sometimes just give myself light amp

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doesn't make me feel guilty

twilit rock
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i mean i wouldn't but like

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with some of these old maps i don't blame you

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it might be a monitor issue because i always keep my monitor at lowest brightness

crystal hill
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to be fair, I haven't had to do that in donkeys years

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Maybe its this new computer and monitor that I use that lets me see better

twilit rock
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i also play on low detail so

crystal hill
twilit rock
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sometimes stuff is obscured

crystal hill
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I forgot what settings I have my GZDoom on, but everything looks nice and crisp for me

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pretty much ideal

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(I dont use any graphics mods)

twilit rock
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i see

crystal hill
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what source port do you use?

twilit rock
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i don't use a source port typically

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but usually it's chocolate doom when I do

crystal hill
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ohh, you go straight from dos?

twilit rock
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well dosbox i mean

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I don't have a machine that runs ms-dos natively

crystal hill
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oh yeah, that's what I meant

twilit rock
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yeah

crystal hill
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if you were running pure dos, that'd be some impressive dedication

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still, I respect someone who uses dosbox for doom

twilit rock
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but yeah i mainly use chocolate doom when i need to run a source port for whatever reason

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Although i'll say i do like crispy doom's feature of being able to display stats on the automap that's helpful

crystal hill
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That might be the feature I couldn't live without

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I like autistically checking my number of kills and secrets to see how far into a level I am, how much progress I am making, etc

twilit rock
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what i hate the most

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is accidentally clicking the exit plane before i got 100% kills/items/secrets

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because it wasn't obvious that was the exit

crystal hill
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that's the worst

twilit rock
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i try to 100% every level and that's really frustrating

crystal hill
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as do I, but sometimes it's not worth redoing the level

twilit rock
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it depends

crystal hill
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I've pistol started UV maxed some real hard wads, I don't need to prove anything to myself

twilit rock
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if i missed like half the level I'll go back

crystal hill
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if its a good level... well, it wont have that problem

twilit rock
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But if it was like one guy at the end it's like whatever

crystal hill
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but if it does, I'm more likely to shrug and say "okay, lets do this again"

crystal hill
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especially if it's a shotgunner when I have 123% health and 73% armour

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but doom 1 and 2, doom 1 in particular, have really short levels, so I dont mind redoing those

twilit rock
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yeah true

crystal hill
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I may be as down on Doom 1 as I am because a lot of cacoward winners in the past have just aped E1

twilit rock
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i love wads like that though

crystal hill
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so I've played essentially copies of it over and over, unlike Doom 2, which is fresher in my mind

crystal hill
twilit rock
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I could live without both

crystal hill
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they're also generally quite easy, so I dont get much out of them

crystal hill
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it's such a good enemy, and quite fair to boot

median trellis
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I can't live without revenants

crystal hill
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I could survive. Those homing missiles cause high blood pressure

twilit rock
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I love revenants

crystal hill
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I despise how you don't know if a missile will lightly graze you or put you one foot in the grave

twilit rock
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i like it

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revenant is probably my favorite enemy that doom 2 added

sharp wyvern
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revenants in doom 2 are meh cause there aren't enough levels that utilise them well enough

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i didn't even realise their missiles had homing till i got to the master levels icel lol

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plutonia uses them very well though

crystal hill
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it's more or less annoying in different places. The revenant may be the worst offender for this

median trellis
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that's what makes the revenant a good enemy

twilit rock
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damnit why can't i send images

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i had a funny one

crystal hill
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new account?

twilit rock
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Not a new account but i rejoined the server after a while of not being here

crystal hill
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that might be it

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well, DM it if you want

crystal hill
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the best way to dodge any projectile in doom is slight movements to the left or right (more depending on how close you are). Homing rev missiles are the main thing that violates this

sharp wyvern
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and if youre treating them like normal missiles usually youre getting behind cover

twilit rock
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Why is this wad making me pistol a cyberdemon

crystal hill
crystal hill
twilit rock
crystal hill
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damn, you're a professional

twilit rock
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but anyways yeah i really do not think they prepared that level for a pistol start

crystal hill
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you'll have no problems with this guy then

crystal hill
sharp wyvern
crystal hill
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fair

twilit rock
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you get shotguns off the zombie corpses and that's it

twilit rock
crystal hill
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another 94 wad I've played but have absolutely no memory of

twilit rock
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did you just go through the top 100 wads list

crystal hill
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I did manage to beat it though, so there had to have been some weapon in that cyberdemon

crystal hill
twilit rock
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that's what I'm doing currently

twilit rock
crystal hill
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oh snap, we're doing the same thing

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I'm 20 years ahead, but still

twilit rock
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and half of them are behind a barrier and not reachable lol

crystal hill
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which map?

twilit rock
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e2m8

crystal hill
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it's all coming back to me now

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no, I did not beat it. I crossed it out as beaten because 7/8 levels is good enough, I though

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yeah, uh, good luck

twilit rock
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I already did it

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I sent that message after I killed him

crystal hill
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oh, well done then

twilit rock
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It's not hard all you do is just strafe in a circle and shoot it just took me like 3 minutes

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It's just time consuming and my hands were getting tired

crystal hill
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that level has 5 cell packs according to doom wiki

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no way they expected you to play it pistol start

twilit rock
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yeah i guess not

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oh well i don't really care

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unless a level is genuinely impossible from a pistol start in which case I'll continue from a previous level

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but that's really rare

crystal hill
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let me know when you've got through trinity college, crossing acheron and the evil unleashed

twilit rock
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i did

crystal hill
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those are the 3 wads I kind of remember from 94

twilit rock
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like earlier this year

bitter shoal
crystal hill
bitter shoal
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I got to map 4 before I took a break from playing

twilit rock
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crossing acheron is very good obviously but dr sleep is a really talented map maker

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evil unleashed is probably the best map set up to that point not made by id software

crystal hill
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trinity college is similar to Doomsday of UAC in it's impressiveness, but I feel it's combat is superior, so it's got 2nd place on my list

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Agreed

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very unmemorable now, but I trust past me when he says it was the best thing he played in that year

crystal hill
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I should sleep now. G'night

bitter shoal
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night

bitter shoal
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PRCP2's map 11 is pretty cool. I can't figure out how to get the keys but it is really cool.

crystal hill
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as in, you can complete it without the keys?

bitter shoal
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no I mean I don't know how to get the keys I find lol

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they are on raised platforms I need to figure out how to get to or lower, etc

crystal hill
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sounds like a problem

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even the best level can turn frustrating if you've no idea how to make progress

bitter shoal
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I mean I should figure out (or look at) the solution before making judgements, and there is a lot to do on the map.

crystal hill
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are the maps in PRCP2 bigger on average than PRCP1's?

bitter shoal
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size isn't the main reason 7 kind of sucks though

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7 felt like someone was in over their head trying to make a super epic magnum opus since it is a pivotal point in the game while whoever made map 11 seems more qualified to acutally do that, if that makes sense.

crystal hill
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I understand, yeah

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I've seen a few maps that suffer from magnum opus syndrome

bitter shoal
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It'd be fine if the encounters weren't so weak though, mainly a ton of ambushes that are enemies jumping behind you and that is like half the monster count on a map that has a couple hundred or so

crystal hill
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Ambushes arent fun, even in some of my favourite wads, like Speed of Doom

bitter shoal
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I'm okay with ambushes, I like Plutonia afterall but like anything else there are degrees of quality to them and you have bad and good

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so I don't want my feelings on this map to be a general statement about ambushes in general

crystal hill
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I should clarify - when I think of an ambush, I mean monsters spawning in out of nowhere with no cue

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A resurgence map ended with a switch surrounded by corpses. This was enough to clue me in "okay, there's gonna be enemies here, let me prepare"

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Much better than what joshy did in SoD, where it was "oops! All pop up monsters!"

bitter shoal
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yeah there was one part where I did spawn in monsters that I expected. What I ddin't know was that some revenants teleported in like two rooms away and I think I ended up running into one earlier than the author intended because I pulled back from the fight instead of staying in where the revenants were likely supposed to hit me in the back.

solemn socket
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nevermind... i missed a switch

bitter shoal
solemn socket
bitter shoal
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oh okay

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I completely forgot that room then

static jasper
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I finally 100% doom 64

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Man this game was painful

crystal hill
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Congrats

static jasper
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I really do not like 64, honestly. I stick to those thoughts we discussed the other day

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If i had to play a classic doom again, it would be 100% 1 or 2. Definitely not 64.

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Time for doom 3!

crystal hill
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Its less suited for pistol start than D1 or 2

crystal hill
crystal hill
static jasper
static jasper
# crystal hill Yeah, I'm hardly a lover of D64 myself. If/when I do my full series playthrough ...

The only redeeming points of it might be the sprites. I liked the pinkies looks in this one. My problems with 64: horrible level design (whenever you pressed buttons it just wouldn't trigger any audio clues to make me understand where the hell to go and what happened would just be me running around the whole map like an idiot) , lack of a damned ost as a whole (hearing distorted roaring for the whole game almost made me crazy), combat felt slower than the first 2 games, and kinda mid boss fight.

static jasper
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I just need a break for now

mortal silo
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i think i might play tnt2 again now that its complete (ive played all but a few levels)
or give revilution a shot as it seems well regarded

sharp wyvern
raven finch
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Dwango5 map01

crystal hill
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Whether you get the shot after 10 seconds, 30 or 60, it still gets outclassed very quickly

crystal hill
crystal hill
crystal hill
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It leans a lot more into survival horror than the others do as well

crystal hill
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The combat is slower because the whole game runs slightly but noticably slower than the classics. It also lacks a lot of really impactful D2 monsters, which hampers the combat further (but they keep and buff the fucking pain elemental grrrrr)

wintry copper
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been playing Memento Mori II lately and currently just beat MAP15, so far a lot better than MM1 and legit probably the best 90s megawad by far

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and I already liked the first MM even though it's pretty flawed and grabbaggy especially in comparison to MM2

crystal hill
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MM2 is definitely an improvement over MM1 (it helps that it has some quality music in it), but Requiem would be my pick for 2nd best megawad of the 90s (after Plut of course)

wintry copper
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yea Requiem is also really good though it's pretty inconsistent and quite obviously rushed

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Militant Reprisal is a bit of a hot mess for instance and Procrustes Chambers as much as I love it thematically is excessively stingy with ammo and health

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Hatred though is absolutely amazing, same goes for Rats in the Walls, The Canyon, The Reactor, Town of the Dead and Fetals' Remains

sharp wyvern
sharp wyvern
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Like YOURE MAKING A D64 DLC where you don’t have MEMORY ISSUES

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ADD SOME NEW ENEMIES 🤯🤯🤯

hearty gorge
stiff basalt
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Idk man doom 3 is more of a doom game than any nudoom game released

hearty gorge
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Kinda agree ngl

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2016 is my sweetspot for that nudoom and doom 3 feel

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Love that game, shame it's a very short game

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For me atleast

fierce stream
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I ❤️ Doom 1 & 2 🔥

bitter shoal
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okay I figured out how to get this key on this PRCP2 map I just had to press an obvious switch I kept neglecting earlier in the map lol

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I knew it was a me issue

polar mural
sharp wyvern
polar mural
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its still a good game. doom doesnt seem to have bad games (havent played eternal 3 or dar ages) but 64 is just the worst out of all of them

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hot tae doom 1 is better than doom 2

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dont get me wrong i love hell nights

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theyre really fun to fight imo

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but something about the level design of doom 1 just clics with me more than it does in 2

sharp wyvern
polar mural
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although i thin i had a better favorite level in doom 2 than 1

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i dont thin i really have a favorite level in doom 1

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monster condo is THE GOAT though imo

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was immensley fun to figure out the ins and outs of the level

bitter shoal
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okay PRCP2's map 11 was pretty nice. Once I figured out how to get the first key the rest of the map flowed until I wanted ot distract myself with trying to get a secret I wanted.

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and getting that key involved pressing a very obvious switch that was my fault for ignoring

sharp wyvern
true urchin
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does anyone know any good mapsets that are around the difficulty of the doom 2 base campaign (maybe a little harder)

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ideally ones that aren't needlessly obtuse to move forward in and aren't just gonna screw you over with a lol random xd 30 archvile monster closet with no cover

static jasper
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Not even close to the fun I've had with 1 and 2

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My classic fav doom is doom 1 actually

true urchin
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doom 1 has:
imp
really big imp
flying imp
zombies that die to stiff breeze
mr slappy
mr slappy but slightly transparent

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that's literally it for 95% of the game

static jasper
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I don't know how to explain it but

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Doom 1 was the new thing.
Doom 2 was pretty much the same thing just with a couple of new enemies and the double sawed shotgun.

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Doom 1 simply clicked different for me

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Also I preferred the levels and music more

true urchin
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it just adds an entire new dimension to the combat

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fights are fundamentally different and the approach is different too

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mancubi punish you for strafing carelessly, archviles are critical priority targets, arachnotrons and revenants are essentially long range artillery

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the pain elemental is a fucking rat bastard

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i dont play doom 1 anymore because after playing 2 going back just feels so dull in comparison

static jasper
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Everything of doom 1 felt iconic.
But if someone asked me "What do you remember of iconic from doom 2?"
The only thing I'd be remembering is that it had the double sawed shotgun. Cause man since they implemented that gun the normal shotgun feels pretty much useless.
Why spend 15 seconds shooting at a spongy enemy if you can just rush to a demon, get face to face and most of times 1 shot kill them?

true urchin
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its generally a better option for killing hitscanners and imps

static jasper
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It felt more badass and better for me than the combats

true urchin
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the tight spread actually lets you snipe zombies at long range

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the super cant do that

static jasper
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Those fucking burning heads just bother my ass a lot

true urchin
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here's a wild opinion

static jasper
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They don't even do much damage but the amount of nuisance they cause is unbelievably unbelievable at times.

true urchin
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i actually overall prefer that doom 2 has a couple of annoying rat bastard enemies that you want to kill first

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it adds another layer to fights

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combat is no longer "keep shooting until everything stops moving" now you have to consider the dickhead in the back making your life harder

static jasper
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Also man what about those cacodemons that spits those heads every second. They don't even give you time to take care of said spit heads they just spit another two that rush your ass.
Also vomits shits after dying it's incredibly frustrating.

true urchin
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how much should you prioritize killing him? can you take him out now or would you suffer too much damage? then again killing him later takes more ammo and may also force you to take damage

true urchin
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that's what they're called

static jasper
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That's the only enemies that really clicked my nervous system the rest was ok

static jasper
true urchin
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burning heads are called lost souls

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and yeah they're really annoying i cant lie

static jasper
true urchin
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technically they're a doom 1 enemy but they're so infrequent and irrelevant i literally forgot about them

static jasper
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I still have to play 3, 2016, eternal and dark ages and I wonder if there's something more of a nuisance than them

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I absolutely fucking hated those things lmao it's crazy

true urchin
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but yeah tl;dr doom 2's wider range of enemies that all do different things forces you to constantly be considering who in the room is the biggest threat AND if you can deal with them safely

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and how TO deal with them

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doom 1 enemies are all basically the same honestly

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hell barons are just really big imps

static jasper
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Also in the ending of 64 there were a fuckton shit of enemies and man the lost souls were a LOT

true urchin
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cacodemons are flying imps

static jasper
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If i didn't have the bfg and unmaker I would have quit right away

true urchin
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they have less health but more damage, they move faster and have basically zero attack cooldown so you just die instantly if they hit you

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genuinely one of the worst enemy designs in the series and THE reason why i have no desire to replay 64

static jasper
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Basically you would need to spoiler the game before playing

true urchin
static jasper
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Imagine if I was playing on watch me die

true urchin
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i think it was like some kind of super crazy secret they wanted you to find when you replayed the game

static jasper
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Actually, I played a bit of watch me die and it wasn't that bad tbh

true urchin
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you play it again, find one of the keys (or more) and go "ohhhh THATS what i needed"

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the problem is nobody wants to replay 64

static jasper
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Pretty much!!

true urchin
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i wish 64 was more fun tbh because the vibes are IMMACULATE

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i really like the enemy redesigns they look fucked up in the best way

static jasper
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ehhhh

true urchin
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the final boss was cool, i liked it more than fighting the evil spooky face on a wall

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i'm not sold on the music i can't lie

static jasper
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For me 64 vibes were kinda a let down cause having to hear to distorted roarings instead of a good music is bad for me

true urchin
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i played with a custom soundtrack mod and it was way better

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ambient tracks are fine but i would appreciate some actual music

static jasper
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They could have used aggressive violins. It would have fit 64

true urchin
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not fuckin minecraft disk 13

static jasper
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Something dead space would have

true urchin
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idk

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it was clearly experimental, got outsourced to another team

static jasper
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Midway right?

true urchin
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yeah

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some ideas were great

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some others... didn't come back for a reason

static jasper
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I actually found the levels layout easier than 1 and 2

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The problem as I said was the lack of audio clue

true urchin
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i can't fault them for trying something new

true urchin
static jasper
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Like you would click on something and it would activate shit 10 rooms before

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Like at least let me hear something

true urchin
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some doom maps kinda fall into this weird point and click game syndrome

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where you're scouring every nook and cranny looking for the magic interactable pixel and when you find it you don't actually know what that did

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and honestly, if it's for secrets: cool

static jasper
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Also I didn't like the fact that to solve an enigma, you would have to leave the room and go back for a bit.

true urchin
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they're secret for a reason

static jasper
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Sometimes doom 64 made me question reality

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And man that was every single level it got so tiring

true urchin
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but when the mandatory route for progression starts being really obtuse and starts like hiding shit on purpose suddenly i stop having fun its so weirdd

static jasper
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I had to use guides every now and then I don't have problems saying this cause otherwise I would have been stuck there

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Cause the game gives no clues how to solve something it's all random clicking with no relation to each thing

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It almost felt like devs hated the player

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Almost like they didn't want you to finish the thing

true urchin
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i have doom wiki bookmarked at all times because needing to look up guides just to progress is a REALLY annoying trend with a lot of custom maps

static jasper
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And man I like some good puzzles but make them make SENSE

true urchin
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"what if we put a tiny switch on the backside of this one decorative pillar in the corner that you would never have a reason to look at and that was mandatory to progress the stage" what if you just made a good fucking map instead of putting all this bullshit in

static jasper
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Truth nuke

true urchin
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what if you simply made a stage that didn't make you stop and pull up the fucking wikipedia page halfway through

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what if you made a map that didn't suck ass

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hypothetically

static jasper
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Also most of the switch blended in with other decorative objects. Like there was not even the tiniest hint from devs "Hey, this one looks pretty off. A slightly different textures you know? Why don't you try click on it?"

true urchin
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look i get it some people love looking for obtuse secrets in old doom maps

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and honestly? sometimes that person is me

static jasper
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No because how is a player not supposed to know that a Window out of the 25 displayed is actually a switch and not a decoration

true urchin
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but my dude make it a SECRET not the critical path of the stage

static jasper
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Also man some traps were just made to make you rage quit

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Oh no you standed on the wrong side of the floor, now watch your dude die without a way to get back up

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I don't know man the level design was odd

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Why would have the floor even collapse it just didn't make even sense

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Like i would expect it if I pressed some buttons in the wrong combination and yeah I would expect a trap to activate but making it a scripted thing for no reason is a dick move

bitter shoal
pearl bay
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Damn, the Doom 64 slander here is crazy 😭

bitter shoal
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I also couldn't tell if the convo was still about D64 or what it seemed like literally every DOOM wad

sharp wyvern
sharp wyvern
pearl bay
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Doom 2 level design isn't as bad as people say. Yeah, there are some weaker levels but also some of the best in the series

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I think it balances itself out

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Also, I think the levels are generally more interesting than in the first game even if every idea doesn't land

marsh sorrel
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Ello

bitter shoal
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holy cow PRCP2's Map 12 & 13 are euthanasiac THRILL RIDES :doomguy_god_hd

hearty gorge
#

Idk why they rushed d2. It would've been my fav doom game if it wasn't fucking rushed

bitter shoal
crystal hill
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Not to mention the different enemy rosters, the bigger emphasis on horror/survival horror, more of a story focus, more boss fights, etc etc

hearty gorge
crystal hill
#

Doom 3 is closer to D64 than it is to D1

hearty gorge
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As in resident evil survival horror?

crystal hill
hearty gorge
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Idk about that

crystal hill
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Doesnt manage it much, but I think thats what its going for

stiff basalt
#

Action horror*

hearty gorge
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Yeah

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Action horror fits better

crystal hill
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Which is still different to D1

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That one is just action

hearty gorge
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Uhh

crystal hill
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You're too quick and powerful, ammo is too plentiful

stiff basalt
#

Doom 1 could be considered horror as well

hearty gorge
#

D1 has a lot of horror elements

bitter shoal
#

D1 is horror themed but not really a horror game

crystal hill
#

Its in a different tier to D3

stiff basalt
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There's literally a lot of rooms where light flickers and stuff

crystal hill
#

The atmosphere, the gameplay, the graphics, the music, very unlike horror for the vast majority of it

crystal hill
stiff basalt
#

It was

bitter shoal
#

yeah there are horror elements but none of it is really geared to scare the player or make them feel helpless

crystal hill
#

The UAC facility's been overrun and shit's broken

stiff basalt
#

On the 90s

crystal hill
#

Right

hearty gorge
#

Doom 1 is a lot more atmospheric so

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There's hanging dudes and giant goat demons that could snap you in half

crystal hill
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I dont believe D1 and D3 can be compared in the same horror action genre

bitter shoal
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I've said it once and I"ll say it again, Bobby Prince's music alone disqualifies DOOM 1 from being a horror game

crystal hill
#

Doom 1 doesnt have a flashlight to light up the world around you because the lighting is so poor

stiff basalt
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So no flashlight = no horror

crystal hill
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Yes, thats exactly my point

stiff basalt
#

Damn

crystal hill
crystal hill
hearty gorge
#

kekw i'm trying to think on something to say idk what to say lul

stiff basalt
#

Bro your argument got literally disqualified when you said doom 3 is a survival horror

crystal hill
#

Oh?

#

There is a greater focus on ammo management, for your good weapons at least, than in D1

stiff basalt
#

There isnt

crystal hill
#

Its not a Resi Evil survival horror, fair, but it definitely has elements of it

crystal hill
#

You get a chaingun early, but nearly no ammo until the last third of the game

stiff basalt
#

You are always packed full of ammo

crystal hill
#

So you need to ration it for the big threats

stiff basalt
#

The only time where ammo becomes scarce is when you return from hell

crystal hill
#

You have ammo for that, not your truly good weapons. Especially at the start

stiff basalt
#

The shotgun is indeed awful

crystal hill
#

Whether you call it survival horror or action horror, D3 is a very different beast to D1

crystal hill
#

Decent long range burst damage, decent short range damage also

stiff basalt
#

Doom 3 started the trend of having awful shotguns on doom games

crystal hill
#

Every other game I've played has the shotgun be uber powerful point blank, and terrible beyond that

#

Even D3's is genuinely good, if you can stick it up a demon's butthole

stiff basalt
#

2016 and Eternal shotgun base fire is awful and only get redeemed by their mods

crystal hill
#

And the super shotgun gets direct buffs rather than mods

crystal hill
#

I think its still sold for £4 here in the UK. Thats not much at all

bitter shoal
#

It is probably harder to mod custom content for D64, I assume, especially since you can't make stuff cohesive with its artstyle as easily

stiff basalt
#

Honestly doom 64 and doom/doom 2 are practically the same thing
They play basically the same and just have a different atmosphere to them

bitter shoal
#

well yeah DOOM 64 uses the same engine as Playstation DOOM

#

but upgraded to have some new features

static jasper
#

Idk where yall see the horror in doom games

#

If I have the power to snap demons in half I cannot feel any tension

full shoal
#

I think Doom 2 levels fail because they are much more gamifyid. They don't feel like real places or make much sense at all and therefore lack any athmosphere. All the good that D2 brought is better displayed in Final Doom. Doom 2 is not bad but later wads just prove how D2 is a little lackluster.

#

Not ALL levels of course.

static jasper
#

Perhaps if you would be playing as a normal dude with low experience with guns and stuff then I might understand it.
But if it ever heads that direction it's not doom

stiff basalt
#

People nowadays are way too desensitized

static jasper
#

Also that

crystal hill
#

Its got more of a spooky atmosphere with the lack of light, and no funky music. Oh, and jumpscares

full shoal
#

Hey has anyone tested the "Doom 4" mod? Is it shit?

#

It's pretty high on the mods page in D1+D2 but so is Simpsons Doom doomguy_thonk

raven finch
#

Any time people talk bout doom3 they have to defend it.

#

Cuz it sucks ass

crystal hill
#

Its fine. People are still too kind to it, though

full shoal
#

It's common for games that got a bad rep for any reason. Doom 3 got it because it wasn't like old Doom. But people don't agree that it's a bad game

#

I played it and the expansion when it came out but never returned to it so don't remember how it felt. But I'm quite sure it isn't as timeless as the classic Doom

crystal hill
#

No it is not. Doom 3 is flawed in a lot of ways that make me less willing to replay it than the classics

stiff basalt
crystal hill
#

Resurrection of Evil (the expansion) is significantly better, but it has its own problems

bitter shoal
stiff basalt
#

What really made og doom a timeless classic is the modding scene

full shoal
crystal hill
#

But even on their own, Doom 1 and 2 are a lot more pick up and play than 3 is

stiff basalt
#

Thats kinda subjective

crystal hill
#

You open the game, select your difficulty, you're in the level, less than 30 seconds

full shoal
crystal hill
#

In Doom 3, you have a bunch of cutscenes and npcs and optional areas until you get into the underside of the mars base

#

Where its another few minutes until you're actually fighting some demons

crystal hill
#

If I want to shoot some demons, D1 and 2 get me there much quicker than 3 does

stiff basalt
#

If we are talking about pacing the first maps from D1/D2 feel slow to play too
Especially on doom 1 since the demon variety is too limited

sharp wyvern
crystal hill
#

I havent heard anyone complain about the pacing of D1 and 2's opening levels before

crystal hill
sharp wyvern
#

D3's opening level is perfect who hates D3's opening level

crystal hill
#

People who want to shoot demons quickly

crystal hill
stiff basalt
twin mortar
#

DOOM 3's atmosphere is unmatched imo and I can't imagine it opening up the same way D1 and D2 do

sharp wyvern
crystal hill
crystal hill
stiff basalt
#

Wish there was a version of minor sprite fixes that kept that lost soul design

bitter shoal
#

anyway as I was saying earlier, Maps 12 & 13 of PRCP2 are completely bonkers, gonna try to finish map 13 real quick (though I might take a break in the middle of it despite it probably not being that long)

south dragon
#

How to beat the fucking cyberdemon?

#

In doom 93, like how? I am shooting rocket, after rocket, but that son of bitch keeps getting me

sharp wyvern
#

Also don’t stand near walls

south dragon
#

I tried using the chain gun, the plasma blaster and the rocket launcher

#

still nothing, shotgun isn’t going to do shit

bitter shoal
south dragon
#

ipad pro

bitter shoal
#

ah okay, I have no experience with touch controls but they are likely making it significantly more difficult

south dragon
#

Well I reached here so far, so thats gotta count as an achievement

bitter shoal
#

I will forgive map 14 of PRCP2 being evocative of a Plutonia 1 map mostly for how it played out lol (I will probably un-forgive it if more maps are copies of Plutonia 1 though)

#

still so far only one kind of meh map in this mapset, hopefully it keeps up

#

oh weird, Doomwiki doesn't have Map 15 as having a secret exit

wintry copper
#

probably bc it's still a relatively new WAD

#

but yeah that's weird

crystal hill
#

Well, its a very safe bet that if a map has a map 31, it'll have a secret exit to it in map 15

wintry copper
#

^^

bitter shoal
#

it has the other secrets which is why it stood out to me

twilit rock
#

anyone in here played the lost episodes?

#

and if so what did you think

wintry copper
#

you mean the 1994 commercial megaWAD?

#

played only the first level, it was honestly shovelware tier

crystal hill
crystal hill
twilit rock
#

It's been pretty good so far

#

i'm on e2 atm

crystal hill
#

those guys could be wrong

#

I can't say for sure until/unless I play it

twilit rock
#

i mean christen klie designed like 5 of the master levels

crystal hill
#

yeah the worst ones

twilit rock
#

Eh

crystal hill
#

the only thing I remeber from his 6 levels is pain

burnt tapir
#

Hello

twilit rock
#

For the standards of the time this is one of the best wads of 94

crystal hill
#

Maybe

#

but I dont hold 94 wads in high regard at all

twilit rock
#

damn

crystal hill
#

I'm a zoomer, spoiled by the bounties of the late 2000s - early 2010s

twilit rock
#

i do I love old wads

crystal hill
#

Some hold up

twilit rock
#

i'm a zoomer too

crystal hill
#

Alien Vendetta is still in my top 10 or so wads

#

Plutonia is the best one of the 90s

#

even kinda crap megawads like h2h xmas have a certain charm

crystal hill
twilit rock
#

i first played it when i was a kid probably like 10 just because it was one of the most highly regarded classic games

#

I think i played the snes port LOL

crystal hill
#

lordy, you're a certified retro gamer

twilit rock
#

i didn't get like back into it into it until doom 4 came out which i played and really enjoyed

#

then i went back and played all the classic iwads in like 2021 or 22

#

currently i'm just going through the top 100 wads and notable wads lists from doomwiki

crystal hill
#

we've gone down similar-ish paths then

#

especially near the end

fierce junco
#

Im horrible ar classic doom for some reason

#

I still play it from time to time cause its fun

crystal hill
#

you get better with a lot of practise

twilit rock
#

i do want to go back and play doom 4 again at some point it's been nearly 10 years now somehow

fierce junco
twilit rock
#

I never did the hardest mode on there so I really want to try that

fierce junco
#

You mean Doom 2016?

twilit rock
#

same thing

crystal hill
#

Weird to call it D4, but I get what she means

twilit rock
#

i don't like calling games with a release year at the end it's tacky

crystal hill
twilit rock
#

it's like god of war (2018) just say god of war 4 bruh

fierce junco
crystal hill
#

I beat it, but I think I'll stick to UV next time

twilit rock
crystal hill
#

ultra nightmare?

twilit rock
#

The permadeth one

#

Yeah i forgot what they called it

crystal hill
#

yeah, good luck. You'll need it

twilit rock
#

The problem is like

#

Nightmare mode on doom 4 wasn't even nearly as bad as original because as far as i remember enemies do not respawn

crystal hill
#

they do not

twilit rock
#

but like if you die once that's it that's like 4 hours wasted so that's brutal

#

even doom 1 you can beat the whole campaign in like 2 hours if you don't die

#

doom 4 is like twice that at least

#

i remember it being like average cod campaign length

crystal hill
#

it was fairly long, 10-11 hours on NM

twilit rock
#

yeah that sucks if you die

fierce junco
#

Ive never done UN, i did try doing pandamonium for Doom tda tho but i couldnt get past the 4th level :/

twilit rock
#

you gotta be goated

crystal hill
#

I'll not even try

#

I'm definitely not try to play Eternal on Nightmare

fierce junco
crystal hill
#

prepare for a wall of text

fierce junco
#

Oh- he stopped typing

twin mortar
#

Maybe typing it in a notes app or something

fierce junco
#

Yeah, maybe

crystal hill
#

nah I went to the bathroom lol

fierce junco
crystal hill
#

I wasn't much into FPS games until I was about 15. I'd played some TF2 and some CoD, but that was it. Then I played Half Life, and everything changed. I fell in love with FPS games, So, after beating that and it's sequels, I set my sights on another classic series - Doom a year or so later.

I didn't get into it at all. Playing with DOSBox felt clunky, and I had no idea how to play properly. So I dropped it. But I kept at it, over the next few years. I had a fling with gameplay mods when I found out how to use GZDoom, but they didn't really excite me. At the same time, I tried my first few wads. They included Plutonia 2. Suffice to say, I did not get far.

Slowly but surely, I got better. I managed to beat the classic doom wads, and even some custom ones. Civvie's videos in particular got me movitated to beat them. I got a collection of Doom wads I liked playing, especially Golden Souls (still one of my favourites). Even still, I was pretty casual about my playing, every so often, never for longer than a few weeks or months.

Eventually, I found MtPain27, and he introduced me to a lot more of the "popular" wads, as well as Doomworld and THEIR recommendations. I decided on a whim to go through their 100 most memorable maps, and play all of the ones I haven't played it. It took me a year or so on and off, but I did it, and that was fun. It introduced me to stuff like Speed of Doom and Alien Vendetta, as well as finally getting me to beat Going Down (I tried years before, but was never good enough to finish it)

Then, when that was over, I decided to play through every single cacoward winning wad. I started in Febuary of this year, and I am still going up to 2014. In this part of my life, Doom has well and truly taken hold of it. I hardly ever play videogames that aren't Doom anymore. It's kind of concerning, lol. But still, it's been good thus far. I will probably quit before I get all the way to 2025's cacowards, but we will see

#

so that's that

crystal hill
#

@twilit rock have to say, the first level of the lost episodes doesn't get me excited for the rest

#

you're equipped like you're going to war, but you're up against typical e1m1 enemies. Was the invuln REALLY necessary?

hearty gorge
#

vega i hate you

crystal hill
#

rip whatever that was

hearty gorge
#

it was the pirate gif writing

#

this one

#

and a smart vegeta gif too

crystal hill
#

i see.

hearty gorge
#

i need to find a version with both so i don't need to be posting 2 at once

wintry copper
#

his Master Levels maps are also all pretty terrible

crystal hill
polar mural
#

absolute little shitheads in 64 though

#

i get 64 has to be harder to 1 up the first 2

#

but god the ammo scarcity is a problem for me

#

barely even used the plasma gun because i was scared i would use up all the ammo for the bfg and unmaer when i could need them

#

doesnt feel lie that in 2

stiff basalt
#

The plasma rifle is useless in doom 64

crystal hill
#

unless you pistol start

stiff basalt
#

I do single segment runs

#

They feel more fun and challenging and less tedious to do because you dont have to keep shotgunning barons or any other tanky demon

crystal hill
#

Having to give up all your weapons between levels makes them more challenging instead. It also means I dont get swamped with ammo for my good weapons

#

I can easily clear out the first area and be safe with a super shotgun or a powered up unmaker if need be

stiff basalt
#

Single segment runs make some demons even more threatening since a single mistake can cost you the whole run

#

On pistol starts you can just restart the level

crystal hill
#

you mean single segment like no deaths?

#

that doesn't seem very fun to me

#

dying on map 27 and having to go all the way back is bullshit

stiff basalt
#

Damn

pearl tiger
#

Anyone having instances where Doomguy suddenly bounces in a different direction when running into a wall or running up some stairs when playing DOOM + DOOM II?

solemn socket
# pearl tiger Anyone having instances where Doomguy suddenly bounces in a different direction ...

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Elastic_collisions_with_walls

DoomWiki.org
Elastic collisions with walls

In the Doom engine, the player slides when moving into a solid wall. However, the code responsible can sometimes suffer a round-off error due to inaccuracies in the R_PointToAngle function and the various trigonometric lookup tables used by the simulation. Occasionally this will result in a dramatic reversal of momentum when sliding against a wa...

pearl tiger
#

Oh, so it's basically normal (and funny at times).

stiff basalt
#

One of the things that ruined sigil 2 for me

bitter shoal
#

ah yeah that was unfortunately tested with GZDOOM or something and not a proper boom port

#

I saw what decino had to go through with that

bitter shoal
#

man PRCP2 keeps getting better, Map 15 was also really crazy. Maps 12-15 were the highlights so far because they were so action packed and not that long.

#

Also I used noclip and IDDT to try and find the secret exit but couldn't so I'm guessing the author just didn't put one in.

#

Opening of Map 16 looks visually nice and I dig its theme, maybe it'll be like 11 where it is more exploration focused.

mortal silo
#

i try and bounce off walls when strafing. seems optimum when it works.

#

is it disabled in uzdoom?

crystal hill
#

I never bounce off walls in gzdoom

#

It kind of annoyed me when playing the kex port

crystal hill
#

Resurgence is slowly grinding down my will to live. I'd like to be done with it already and move onto other wads, but I'm too stubborn to quit, so close to the end. Especially since I do like it, for the most part

#

Map 25 is at least quick in getting to The Part Where it Kills Me™

bitter shoal
#

Another good PRCP2 map down with 17 just done

solemn socket
lusty arrow
#

I already finish Doom 1993 7 times.

#

And I finish DOOM II 3 times

solemn socket
#

+Bragging rights!

crystal hill
#

neato

wintry copper
#

just beat MM2's secret levels and secret missions, loved both the secret levels but the secret missions are rather uneven

#

the 1st Secret Mission level felt like sth you'd see in MM1 but not in a good way while the 2nd one was actually pretty decent, it was like High-Tech Grave but not stupidly obtuse

solemn socket
bitter shoal
solemn socket
#

that’s mine

bitter shoal
#

oh okay, did you forget to convert from PNG to the doom graphics

solemn socket
#
  • old clip already fixed, I was hoping for someone to recognize what’s this
solemn socket
bitter shoal
#

yeah

solemn socket
bitter shoal
#

Chocolate doom doesn't like loading PNGs as textures, period, I believe

bitter shoal
crystal hill
#

I forgot you played with vr, and was wondering what was with the perspectivr

bitter shoal
#

this is also a terrible quality screenshot for some reason

crystal hill
#

I see chaingunners blasting at you from an open space while you have nothing to deal with them

#

Looks "fun"

bitter shoal
#

once you see "it" you'll poop bricks

#

||there is a pain elemental in the distance that immediately goes hostile||

crystal hill
#

I saw it just now

#

Yeah, this seems like the kind of level I'd toss a wad for if its been mediocre so far

#

Unless this isnt as bad as it seems

bitter shoal
#

I hadn't tried the level yet, the chaingunners are the least of my problems I think

crystal hill
#

They're bigger short term problems than a pain

bitter shoal
#

It'll probably be tomorrow before I play it because I"m also going through the new DQ remake

crystal hill
#

Have fun with that

#

I finally "beat" Map 25 of resurgence, though I used a save after it spawned a cyberdemon in the distance in the last fight and it sniped me to death

bitter shoal
#

so far other than map 7 this wad has been very good

crystal hill
#

But after hitting my head against this brick wall for two days, I'll take the L

bitter shoal
#

damn

crystal hill
#

I got through the hard monster ambush at the start that was the cause of all my problems, that's enough for me

#

I really want to beat all the 2014 cacowards before the 2025 ones come out so I'm still only 10 years behind

bitter shoal
#

after PRCP2 I want to play Scythe 2, and then once I do that I might start playing TNT wads (and maybe include Eternal DOOM) as a long term goal

crystal hill
#

Scythe 2 is highly regarded by everyone except me, same with Eternal Doom (but its less spoken about overall)

#

Icarus Alien Vanguard isnt awful. Especially for when it came out

wintry copper
#

Scythe 2 is pretty good, at least as far as I've gotten in it

#

for some reason I've never completed it but I'm gonna make sure to at some point soon

crystal hill
#

Played it twice, it was neat enough, but I really dont get the hype

#

Last 10 levels or so are ball busters as well, didnt really enjoy them or beat the last few

#

I wonder what people think of Scythe X

bitter shoal
#

all I know is that I loved Scythe so obviously I want to check out the sequel

crystal hill
#

Scythe was my favourite wad of 2003, but it had no competition, lol

#

Its pretty good, but I also dont get the hype for it

#

The three ties of difficulty in the wad are cool, but they mean the first third or more of the wad is boring to veterans

#

The levels make doom 2's look like sunlust

full shoal
#

Scythe was not boring at all. Quick levels that are so well designed!

bitter shoal
#

I think its easier difficulty early is pretty well known, the levels were still fairly solid though and the shorter levels gave it good pacing

crystal hill
#

I dont remember a single thing about them, other than the first one

#

No memorable fights or interactions

#

I can appreciate shorter levels, but I want some form of resistance from them

#

Or a memorable set piece or a fight

full shoal
#

I dont remember anything from any wads from the top of my head. Except the horrible ones. But Scythe is a treat ❤️

bitter shoal
#

I still remember some of the encounters in it even before the slaughter-map levels (they are hard to describe where they are in the game though lol)

#

there is a reason I say it is a great launch pad into other stuff if your DOOM resume is literally just the basic IWADs

crystal hill
#

It is a good first foray into the world of wads

#

The early levels are easy enough for a novice to try

#

But I disagree with the copious amounts of love it receives

bitter shoal
#

Well I agree with the copious amount of love I give it

crystal hill
crystal hill
#

I'll keep verbally fellating Plutonia and Alien Vendetta instead

#

(Shame no one knows about Dystopia 3, Chord 3 or Cyberdreams)

bitter shoal
#

oh I still need to play Cyberdreams

#

that is definitely a wad I don't want to watch to be spoiled on

#

for obvious reasons

crystal hill
#

Its got a gimmick, and it does it reasonably well

bitter shoal
#

I should download that on my laptop

crystal hill
#

I give it high points purely for that gimmick - its, as far as I can tell, unique. And in the 90s, too!

full shoal
#

I'm playing Aliend Vendetta, Scythe and Plutonia side by side atm. Well I finished Plutonia last week. Also Sigil 2 and LoR but I'm stuck with those two 😩
I think Sigil 2 E6 is the only one that I really don't feel like grinding out of all these wads.

#

Not E6 but M6

bitter shoal
#

SIGIL 2 starts out as a huge buzzkill, I enjoyed it more as I went on though

#

oh M6 would be later on

#

nevermind then

full shoal
#

Yeah playing saveless and getting nuked by cyberdemon after having all the keys made me sad

#

Map starts so slow so every restart sucks

bitter shoal
#

I lied, gonna see how PRCP2's Map 19 start plays out

crystal hill
#

(Sigil 2)

#

But eventually, it's time will come. Maybe I'll come to love getting cyberdemon'd over and over

crystal hill
bitter shoal
#

okay so Map19 is pretty much designed that you can't really stop the Pain Elementals from littering the map because they end up infighting and you can't prioritize them but if you can take out the chaingunners the safe section has a chainsaw that I was going to use for the lost souls after the pain elementals died

wintry copper
#

far and away the best map in that set so far though, an A+ tbh

bitter shoal
#

okay yeah map 19 is absolutely brutal but pretty much all of it is near the start. Small and short map overall.

fast mortar
#

Alien vendetta is such an atmospheric megawad, every time i replay it and im in the midway point a dread fills me for those final maps lmao one of the most memorable doom wads for me

full shoal
#

I also love it so far!

bitter shoal
#

Map 20 of PRCP2 was REALLY cool spoiler: ||although the end seemed impossible until it wasn't >.>||

#

hopefully the hell levels don't drop the ball somehow, this is a much much better megawad than PRCP1

solemn socket
upper spire
#

Is the talk about DOOM 64 allowed in this channel?

solemn socket
#

go ahead

upper spire
#

A fun challenge if any of ya'll wanna try, try beating Map17 Watch your Step in DOOM 64 with fast monsters on the hardest difficulty after stepping on all the tiles. I've never seen anyone do this LMAO

#

I've been trying to do this and honestly, I have a better chance at beating DOOM 1 on Nightmare than ever completing DOOM 64's Map17 on fast monsters + hard difficulty

bitter shoal
upper spire
#

Really? Somebody did it with the DOOM 2 mod? Is there a video or somethin'? I'm extremely curious

bitter shoal
upper spire
#

Interesting, I was playin' the new port. I can't imagine literally doing that on an N64

bitter shoal
#

I don't think N64 has UV Fast which is likely one of the reasons it was never done as of yet.

upper spire
#

Y'know if it weren't for the new port for DOOM 64 to PC and all, I would've never touched DOOM 64 because I played it once with an N64 controller and it was miserable. I'm not very fond with N64 first person games at all unless it has decent controls kind of like Perfect Dark

bitter shoal
#

anyway it looks like the invulnerability was used to get through the hardest part of the last big encounter

upper spire
#

I figured, haven't gotten that far though but I did see the sphere at the beginning of the tile room so.
I had this thought while playing it (and dying because of the damn pain elementals) that someone should do this on the hardest difficulty, with fast monsters and step on all tiles

#

Probably have to be masochistic as hell

upper spire
# full shoal I'm playing Aliend Vendetta, Scythe and Plutonia side by side atm. Well I finish...

Oh yeah, since I never actually beaten the classic DOOM games (despite the fact I literally play them all the time), I decided recently I was gonna beat all the classics, so I started with Ultimate DOOM + Sigil on UV and lemme tell ya, Sigil was a complete nightmare to finish. It tested my patience and willingness to keep going but I did it. I haven't done LoR yet, I'm mixing it up a little with DOOM 64 after UDOOM + Sigil

full shoal
#

First Sigil sure is a jump up in difficulty but I really like that one

upper spire
little oar
full shoal
#

It's the most optimal difficulty for sure

#

You get the most out of each level

little oar
#

Sure
Just curious why one would start on the games equivalent to hard mode

upper spire
#

I mean I did the same with eternal and 2016, played on the second hardest difficulty

little oar
#

Fair enough then

solemn socket
#

UZDOOM TOMORROW!! UZDOOM TOMORROW!!

little oar
#

Finally, I can ditch gzdoom once and for all

#

Does anyone know if we can use the settings file from gzdoom and put it into uzdoom, or will I have to spend half a hour making the game look presentable again

hearty gorge
#

i mean, they appear in most of them but they'll be super buggy cuz the sourceports try to render an image that isn't using doom's image format so it freaks out

#

if it could atleast support transparent textures...

#

😔

median cloud
solemn socket
median cloud
median cloud
solemn socket
#

you should check its commits.

full shoal
#

okay I feel like Scythe's Hell on Earth might be the end of my saveless shit :D

#

this is horrible

crystal hill
#

hope it's notably more worthwhile

cold wadi
median cloud
cold wadi
#

yep, beta testing has been going well so far

median cloud
wintry copper
crystal hill
#

multiplayer is nice to see for the folks who like it

wintry copper
wintry copper
hollow tree
#

so what exactly is going on with the UZDoom vs GZDoom?

#

well I guess I am kinda excited for a new sourceport

bitter shoal
#

I'm hoping the VR port eventually uses it

solemn socket
#

uzdoom TODAY.

hollow tree
#

😮

#

where do I download?

median cloud
hollow tree
#

nice!

crystal hill
#

the lost levels of doom continue to be a step or so above shovelware

#

the levels are playable, and they are lit well, but they are joyless to play through. Actually quality wads have spoiled me, I can never go back to stuff like this and enjoy it

mortal silo
#

I also did not enjoy it
Wasn't it the rejects of dtwid?

bitter shoal
#

they should've titled it something different, search engine just gives me links to the DOOM 64 lost levels

#

maybe I'l lfind it searching within doomwiki

crystal hill
#

sorry, it's the lost episodes of doom

#

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/The_Lost_Episodes_of_Doom

DoomWiki.org
The Lost Episodes of Doom

The Lost Episodes of Doom is a collection of three eight-level episodes for Doom by Christen Klie and Bob Carter. It takes place on the Jovian moons Callisto and Io, and on Jupiter itself. It was a commercial product and was included on a 3.5" floppy disk that was sold with a 246-page book that details the levels. The book is written by Jonathan...

#

considering they were made in 1995, I reckon the D64 Lost Levels are the ones which should have been renamed

crystal hill
bitter shoal
#

I saw a review of that wad (I forgot it was called that), seemed like it was technically competent as a wad (which a lot of shovelware lacks) it just didn't have the best design sensibilities being it was from very amateur map authors

#

still a cool piece of history though

median cloud
#

dont think I can name a mappack pre-2000 that still holds up today

#

Requiem is okay I suppose

crystal hill
#

Plutonia

#

Dystopia 3
Requiem (to a lesser extent)
Cyberdreams (mainly due to its gimmick)

#

even still, some 90s wads hold up better than others.

#

The Lost Episodes, uh, don't

woven swallow
#

Uzdoom is here

crystal hill
#

just a pre release?

woven swallow
crystal hill
#

shame

median cloud
#

but yeah plutonia is still pretty good

#

Isnt Dystopia 3 more a dm mappack

bitter shoal
#

PRCP2's map 21 was a nice change of pace being an episodic reset (kind of like what Scythe does for its new episode levels). It was also what I wish SIGIL II was more like ||actually giving me rocket ammo in a no-SSG environment but it gave me fewer of everything else and made me think about if I wanted to rocket a single bulky enemy. I ended up getting better at punching revenants on this stage lol||

bitter shoal
#

Map 22 certainly lived up to its name :o

#

and Map 23 holy cow this is visually impressive

#

I'll play more of it later

#

at this point maps 24-32 would all need to somehow be terrible for me to not be able to recommend this megawad

cold wadi
# crystal hill shame

I mean they're working as fast as they can lol with the first actual release coming within a week or 2 at most, and then 5.0 a couple months after that

crystal hill
#

okay

slim dust
#

What's everyone's favorite levels from 1 and 2? Mine might be level 10 of DooM 2, with level 8 from DooM 2 in second place.

crystal hill
#

Inmost Dens is a classic. but apart from that, I don't have particularly strong feelings on anything else

full shoal
#

Whole E1 is so good

#

Also hate love E4

little oar
crystal hill
#

Tricks and Traps has a special place in my heart for expemplifying the experimental nature of Doom 2, that makes me prefer it over D1`

fast mortar
#

I kinda both hate and love refueling base in doom 2 for making me be resourceful and usually end up running out of ammo lol

sharp wyvern
#

I feel like the early levels of both games are the most polished

crystal hill
#

its a bit too open and empty, but the combat is generally good

fast mortar
#

In general i feel like doom 1 had better sense of progression

median cloud
#

for plutonia no idea
for tnt map 07

fast mortar
#

Plutonia for me it definitely would either be hunted or odyssey of noises

#

They're both too memorable

median cloud
#

For plutonia map 09 probably

#

I think Plutonia has good overall map quality but theres not really a standout map I always go back to

sharp wyvern
crystal hill
#

twilight is at or close to the peak of plutonia

sharp wyvern
#

Go 2 It as well just cause it’s fun

crystal hill
#

getting bombarded from all sides but still coming out on top is fantastic stuff

median cloud
#

Go 2 It is fun yeah

fast mortar
#

Oh yeah go 2 it is pretty great

median cloud
#

Dont really like Twilight but for no particular reason

#

Has a trillion secrets

crystal hill
#

it's diet slaughter, more accessible than a lot of it's successors

crystal hill
median cloud
#

But whenever Im in the mood for some quick dooming I almost never play go 2 it

#

I play tnt map 07 very often tho

crystal hill
#

well, yeah. It's not quick

median cloud
#

its not the length tbh

crystal hill
#

it's difficult as well

median cloud
#

Its just maybe too hard for me to play casually

crystal hill
#

so you're gonna have to replay it over and over

median cloud
#

even tho prison is also pretty tough when you pistol start

crystal hill
#

TNT's Map 1 is my favourite from there because of it's music, the berserk pack, and it being map 1 so I don't have to play the rest of TNT

fast mortar
#

as an early concept of a slaughtermap it is pretty managable, but i get why people would have trouble with it, especially first timers

crystal hill
#

I've been reforged in the fires of hellish wads, Go 2 It seems tame by the point

median cloud
#

Go 2 It is definitely tamer compared to most pwads

#

but its still like a step too high for me to enjoy very casually

#

cyberden for example is way chiller

crystal hill
#

very fair

sharp wyvern
#

Cyberden is pretty memorable

median cloud
#

Ive beaten harder maps than go 2 it for sure

sharp wyvern
#

Human BBQ is a pretty fun map

#

Nothing too special it’s just like such a weird set piece to name the level around that I remember it the best

median cloud
#

Its also the hardest official map 2 lol

#

human bbq is pretty tough

sharp wyvern
fast mortar
#

Central processing is the map i remember the most when TNT gets mentioned, I wouldn't say its the best or anything but its pretty memorable

median cloud
#

There arent that many yknow

#

D1, D2, TNT, Plutonia, NRFTL and that new one

#

Oh and both Sigils

#

Okay sigil might have a tougher map 2 but I cannot remember them at all

sharp wyvern
#

Legacy of Rust’s E1M2 is definitely harder than Human BBQ I think

median cloud
sharp wyvern
#

fair 😭

median cloud
#

I have the expansion pack but never got around to playing it

fast mortar
#

Man legacy of rust was a hard kick in the ass, i remember when it first came out i went full ultra violence cause i thought "I've been through tough megawads, this aint nothing" boy was i dead wrong

sharp wyvern
#

LoR’s difficulty ramps up quickly lol

bitter shoal
#

oh wow chat blew up while I was playing CYBER DREAMS

#

which is cooler than whatever you guys are talking about

sharp wyvern
#

E1M1 is like fine like you’ll beat it first try and then E1M2 beats you up

sharp wyvern
#

Most levels end up feeling like marathon levels

median cloud
#

ah nvm I did beat e1m2 of legacy of rust since im at the secret map

#

Im not pistol starting it tho

sharp wyvern
fast mortar
twin mortar
#

I think for my first playthrough LoR was the length of one or two Hexen hubs which is pretty crazy

crystal hill
crystal hill
#

having to go through a bunch of steps every time to get somewhere is a pain

median cloud
#

Short but sweet and pretty cool

#

e1m3 has 450 monsters goddamn

sharp wyvern
#

and pretty spooky at the start

sharp wyvern
#

they’re all so long 😭

median cloud
#

and I play without saving during so thats gonna be annoying

fast mortar
#

I definitely felt burned out the most in lor

median cloud
#

Long maps arent my cup of tea either

#

I remember playing an hour long map that had like a shitty trap near the end

#

Got me to restart it

sharp wyvern
#

Doing my no saves playthrough rn I’m on E1M6 and have no idea how tf I’m gonna get through this

#

LoR is still my favourite wad tho and still in my top 3 doom games, it’s like the perfect blend of literally all of Doom

umbral shale
#

Same

median cloud
#

My dooming periods always end because of long maps I struggle on haha

umbral shale
#

Doom zero is second

median cloud
#

Ill be playing doom for weeks and then quit because of it

#

Happened with Eviternity 2, HR, speed of doom

sharp wyvern
#

fair lol

median cloud
#

So many wads I have yet to finish

crystal hill
#

I find it helps to pair long wads with others. So play a map of the long wad, then a map or more of the shorter one

fast mortar
#

TNT revilution is a great one too, gotta replay that one

crystal hill
#

I'm struggling through resurgence now, but at least I have D2INO to fall back on when I get frustrated with the former

median cloud
#

Might be my favorite custom mappack I ever played

#

Eviternity 1 is also one I finished

crystal hill
#

I havent played that, but surely its not worse than TNT?

median cloud
fast mortar
#

Yeah i like TNT but tntr dominates it in every way

crystal hill
#

I dont hate TNT, but I dont really like it either

median cloud
#

I like the music and the atmosphere a lot

#

Has some stinkers for sure

crystal hill
#

the music is the main high point, true

#

the atmosphere is good but its not something I regularly pay attention to

#

I have tried multiple times to get through TNT. I've succeeded only once or twice, the other times I quit from boredom

#

meanwhile, Plutonia never fails to entertain. I got through Go 2 It just now, and it was quite fun even if not sadistic enough for my tastes

fast mortar
#

I always enjoyed TNT for what it is, its definitely on the bottom of official doom wads but i wouldn't flat out say its bad, even if i do agree with some points made against it

median cloud
#

Idk

umbral shale
#

Habitat does things to a man

median cloud
#

I love tnt map 07, 11, 20

crystal hill
#

I dont remember a single thing from map 7, or 11, or 20

#

the maps are really unmemorable on the whole. Only the absolute stinkers or the rare bright spots rise to the surface

fast mortar
median cloud
#

I disagree tbh

#

I did hate tnt for a long time as well

crystal hill
#

It's combat is very sub par

#

too many low tier hitscanners that you can cleave through with particularly powerful spit

median cloud
#

Rather that than baron spam

crystal hill
#

nice whataboutism

#

I dont like Hell Revealed either

median cloud
crystal hill
#

then what is it??

median cloud
#

A conversation?

crystal hill
#

discussing the merits of TNT

median cloud
#

Im just talking about why I like tnt Im not trying to change your mind

#

Frankly dont care how you feel about tnt

crystal hill
#

I'm not trying to change yours either

umbral shale
#

Have y'all played doom zero by chance

crystal hill
#

you want to say how much you like it, fine. I'll say how much I dont like it

fast mortar
#

Doom zero is so good

#

Its a comfort wad for me

umbral shale
#

Ah hell ye it is

crystal hill
#

I've only heard of it on here, never before

median cloud
crystal hill
#

it was a cacoward runner up, so I'll play it ... eventually

umbral shale
crystal hill
#

"It has a particular focus on platforming and switch puzzles" this doesn't inspire confidence

umbral shale
#

It's a refined classic doom look

crystal hill
#

it brings back bad memories of Jim Flynn maps

umbral shale
crystal hill
#

I will, in like half a year lol

umbral shale
#

It's comforting to play

#

Strangely enough

crystal hill
#

We'll see

median cloud
umbral shale
median cloud
#

Like can I run it on choco doom

umbral shale
#

You should

crystal hill
#

I prefer my puzzle wads to focus entirely on the puzzles, like The Given

#

trying to mix them with typical Doom combat doesn't usually work out from experience

umbral shale
#

It's not a huge focus it just has very good maps

#

Which helps the combat

#

They're not tough puzzles

woven swallow
#

would recommend

crystal hill
#

I link this video because it caused me to realise that "telefragging" the lost souls that come out of a pain elemental isn't a vanilla doom thing, but a GZDoom one (kind of)

#

and now I'm having an existential crisis over it

mortal silo
#

I think if you block the los when the souls spawn it reduces their number

crystal hill
#

Yeah, a little bit of testing revealed that

#

pushing the pain elemental into a wall, then blowing it up is still effective. And body blocking isnt totally useless

crystal hill
#

I've decided to give up on Resurgence. The maps are above my current pay grade and level of patience. I can revisit it some other day

wintry copper
#

completely valid, that was me with Speed of Doom when I tried playing it this spring

#

at first it wasn't too bad but MAP06 was so frustrating I just gave up and mind you I was playing on HMP not UV

median trellis
#

just played plutonia map 23 again, and I must say it is one of the best maps in all of the IWADs

mortal silo
#

Plutonia does that a lot

median trellis
#

still blows my mind they made the whole wad in 4 months

bitter shoal
#

And how much they improved before starting plutonia. Dario's TNT maps don't look nearly on par with his Plutonia stuff

#

right now I'm still trying to see If PRCP2 is a worthy successor to Plutonia and Plutonia 2 but it seems unlikely at this point that it won't be since I'm so far into the mapset and only one map has been kind of mid so far

median trellis
#

pharaoh and caribbean were great maps

mortal silo
#

Nobody talks about how their city maps are perfect

#

Odyssey if Noises is like its own genre separate from plutonia

bitter shoal
#

I wouldn't say Odyssey is perfect, it is hard to see a lot of the perched windowed enemies (though this is more the fault of DOOM 2's texture set) but Plutonia maps tend to have good that outweighs whatever bad there might be

median trellis
#

odyssey of noises might be the best map in all the IWADs

sharp wyvern
#

Odyssey is so great 💖

crystal hill
#

(and enjoyable. The Darkwave maps are an excellent wind down from the tougher, less forgiving Joshy joints)

crystal hill
#

certainly not bad on their own though

true urchin
#

what enemy has the best sound design and why is it the arachnotron

sharp wyvern
true urchin
#

their other sounds are good too i like the kachunk-kachunk-kachunk of them walking around

sharp wyvern
#

super shotgun blast -> Arachnotron death sound -> super shotgun reload is music to my ears

sharp wyvern