classic-doom

[smoky anvil]

The one with all the revenants and cacodemons?

[fervent coral]

idfk i havent played in a while but i was stuck on it last time i did rn im tryna learn doom builder x

[smoky anvil]

Yea, the hell levels of scythe really dont fuck around.

[hexed escarp]

i wonder why they stopped increasing the version number of doom after 1.9

like why wasnt the ultimate doom exe v1.10 or something

and final doom v1.11

ig it didnt really change anything other than loading the new iwads/episode

whereas the other versions had bug fixes and stuff

[surreal portal]

because it was basically the "baseline" for harder wads in a way

Its a bit of "seinfeld is unfunny" moment

of course after experiencing more modern maps meant to be challenging Plutonia looks a bit quaint in comparison

[azure nimbus]

More people play it and therefore less expperienced players play it

[smoky anvil]

I was wrong, decino has played scythe map 30. But he speaks dutch the whole time 🤣

The one time i really need a guide and i cant understand it lmfao 😂

[surreal portal]

i mean its a video guide

Also you'll probably learn some names of monsters in dutch now!

[smoky anvil]

Very true lol

Its an april fools vid too so im just glad hes actually playing the level 😂

[celest canopy]

i hate pain elementals

[smoky anvil]

I love them they make every chaotic and horrible, especially with the lost soul limit off

[red harbor]

just wondering, is The Ultimate DOOM considered an update, rerelease or something else entirely?

[surreal portal]

It's literally the latest patch of doom sold in retail stores at the time, not ordered online

Episode 4 was included as a sorta retail incentive

Doom 2 was actually sold retail from the start

before Doom 1 was sold only using the ol shareware and then call iD for full game model

[red harbor]

true, but with the name change and shift to retail it kinda confused me

[vast reef]

can u send idt ive watched that yet and i need to hear more decino in dutch

[surreal portal]

its not confusing at all, it was essentially a final version of Doom 1 with a retail spice on top with Episode 4

[smoky anvil]

Its on youtube

[vast reef]

yeah i found it

[surreal portal]

doom 1 originally was never sold retail

I think Quake 1 was iD's last game sold using shareware

and even that had retail early on

[red harbor]

yeah but like everyone's mind works differently

[red harbor]

i think quake 2 had shareware too

[surreal portal]

honestly doomwiki would have told ya best https://doomwiki.org/wiki/The_Ultimate_Doom

[red harbor]

honestly the "a free patch was sent to people who already own the game" part shouldve told me that it was an update

[surreal portal]

a quick way to tell is right in E1M1

if the pillar has the switch that opens the door to the outside that then causes the 2nd room to open up, it's Ultimate Doom

was added to make it better for Deathmatch

[silent pelican]

I really liked playing this mod "Vault 666" https://www.moddb.com/mods/fallout-vault-666

[young escarp]

It's def somewhat hard on UV, so long as you find secrets you'll be fine

[heavy lark]

alright. Thx, i'll make sure to do that

if i can

[manic current]

i'm doing a playthrough of all levels included in Doom + Doom II, and considering how much trouble i've had with some levels of Evilution, i think i am going to skip The Plutonia Experiment until I'm done with everything else. I've heard plutonia is cruel 💀

[smoky anvil]

Its cruel if you are playing on uv or doing a blind run

Once you memorize the levels its not as bad

[manic current]

i'm doing uv

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/MAP17:_Processing_Area_(TNT:_Evilution) this level is awful

i mean it's not badly designed but it was so hard lol

[surreal portal]

most of TNT's maps arent even hard, they're just tedious

Looking at that monster count, its just hordes of weaklings

and the rare stronger monster

[manic current]

for me this level sucked because of the insane amount of chaingunners (which is probably why i would hate plutonia)

[surreal portal]

Plutonia actually uses the environment and higher tier enemies against you better

you will be boxed in with a few revenants

[manic current]

😢

revenants make me sad

[surreal portal]

yeah, Plutonia expects you to know how to deal with monsters and use actual DOOM PRO STRATS

like the fact that unless flinched, revenants have a range where they will ONLY try to run in for a punch

Abusing infighting

[manic current]

i've heard the dev would test the level, and if he got through it too easily, he would deliberately make it harder

or something like that

[surreal portal]

well its also there being smart level design and the monsters being used in tandem with it

TNT overall aside from the Casali maps uses monsters extremely poorly

especially the mid to high tier demons

you have cyberdemons where you have tons of open space to dodge with no backup

[sleek escarp]

they also just dont use bigger enemies nearly enough

[twin mortar]

Ok

[smoky anvil]

I hate it too

[surreal portal]

yeah that too, they're barely used and even when they are, they're placed usually where they just can't really shine in their role

Even early on you have OH SHIT AN ARCHVILE... oh wait it can't even revive anyone and I can easily kill it from outside its little box with cover everywhere

[fervent coral]

Looks clean

But is kinda huhuguguhuggdgdt£fix when it comes to design

What’s so bad about it

Gameplay

Art (how it looks amazing)

Or no reason

It released 3 decades ago bro 😭
And the songs are your opinion
But the level desgine isn’t super bad
Have you beat the game like I get you on some bits but it’s still rlly good in my opinion

I feel like you can’t call something trash if you haven’t beat it

[safe burrow]

The Doom + Doom II edition that came out was fun as hell. The fact you got to play alot more challenging levels and modes with CO-OP was great. I understand OG doom aint for everyone but. I started with Doom on windows DoS. So, everyones got an opinion.

[fervent coral]

Exactly me lol

I started with eternal tho

And if you don’t like the level design just play mod maps

Same with song

[safe burrow]

Im happy with how it turned out though. Not everyone is gunna agree with what you like i learned through life. What i learned from that is. Let it go in one ear out the other. Love what you love. Dont let one person or a group of people change your love for something.

[fervent coral]

Tru

All I have to say is more or less you can use mods to fix most of ur issues

Mod maps for lvl design

[safe burrow]

Sounds like me wasting 10 years of my life to Destiny

[fervent coral]

Yeah but have you tryed mod maps

Tru if you want the lvls ur way I recommend makeing them it’s pretty fun

K ur opinion

lol

[halcyon willow]

Do you like getting banned from servers? Because that's what will happen next

[azure nimbus]

The brothers Casali wanted to make hard levels for the other brother

[heavy lark]

i played it on UV and tbh i dont think it was that bad

[twin mortar]

Shoutout to the Xbox 360/BFG Edition versions of DOOM I and II's Nightmare for being genuinely really fun to grind

@vale gyro You should try them out

[vale gyro]

maybe

[twin mortar]

I got to E4M6 a few years ago, now I got to E1M3 before giving up, it's really difficult but it's wayy more doable and that makes it really fun to grind out

[vale gyro]

iirc it's just no fast monsters, right?

[twin mortar]

Yes

[heavy lark]

does anyone kno when the calamity blade appears in doom legacy of rust

[vale gyro]

first appears in E1M7

so at the end of Episode 1

[heavy lark]

alright. Thx

im on that level rn LOL

[finite crag]

Fella purposefully ragebaiting and got kicked out

I already expected it

[clear willow]

im trying to do a uv max no saves run on doom 1, but when i get to e1m2 90% of the time theres 2 monsters that i cant kill, because i cant find them no matter what i do, does this happen to anyone else? ive gotten 6/6 secrets aswell so i dont know whats happening

[clear willow]

nevermind, there was a part i kept missing

[woven swallow]

just type in tntem to kill all monsters

that's what i do when i can't find all monsters

[vale gyro]

-# noted its only in some source ports

[hardy hamlet]

It's not letting me into the mod menu on Series X, i think Bethesda net is down or something

[finite crag]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/194772750957674497/1344451546871627897/9kkita.gif

[fervent coral]

Hey good news I got doors working :D

[fervent coral]

whats wrong with saying dooms bad i like it but whats wrong wit it

i think he was but still ragebaiting isnt rlly that bad

[halcyon willow]

It's toxic as fuck for community health. People who can't behave get shown the door

[native anchor]

Is Final Doom really canon?

And should newcomers really play it or just move onto Doom 64 after finishing Doom 2?

[twin mortar]

After finishing DOOM II you should play Thy Flesh Consumed

Final DOOM is quite lengthy and doesn't really have much variety from DOOM II. The canon status is also unknown. I'd say skip to DOOM 64

[native anchor]

I normally just play Thy Flesh Consumed before Doom 2.

It's the 4th episode of Doom 1 after all.

[twin mortar]

It came out after DOOM II so I personally play it after

[surreal portal]

nobody cares about story, TNT is a mixed bag, but Plutonia is if you've been craving a bit of challenge

[native anchor]

Thy Flesh Consumed was already a big challenge IMO.

E4M1 is no joke. First level of Episode 4 and it's only 9 health bonusses and that's it.

Thankfully E4M2 is much easier. As is the rest of Episode 4.

But I feel like some people would say E4M2 is harder because of the start, but I think the rest of the level isn't too bad.

Espeically because you have 2 medkits at the start so you're at least sustained.

[surreal portal]

E4M2 is easier if you pistol start it

because the sheer resource drought of E4M1 means you will basically be coming onto the next level injured and crap for ammo

also its still only doom 1 monsters, so enjoy tons of spongy af barons

[native anchor]

I never pistol started E4M2 and I still beat it without much struggle.

In fact, I never did pistol start in any level other than the first level of each episode (Since you technically have to at the start of each episode and/or start of Doom 2).

[surreal portal]

no joke, E4M2 is actually easier on pistol start, one of the rare occasions

cause you at least have the full 100 health and 50 bullets

[willow wave]

Can't wait for doom the dark ages

[hot owl]

Brother this is classic doom

[woven swallow]

wads that are like heartland

[fervent coral]

eh tru

[fervent coral]

pov your in the wrong channel

k ima go map now byyyye

[thorn jungle]

attempting to beat Map 9 yet again

this cursed map

[fervent coral]

the one were they throw like 4 demons at you at the start

[thorn jungle]

no that's a different one

i don't even remember what you're talking about

[fervent coral]

the last one of the 1st episode is what i mean

[thorn jungle]

It's doom 2

[thorn jungle]

also you're talking about E1M8 and they throw way more than 4 demons at you at the start

[fervent coral]

Oh the throw like 8 💀

[thorn jungle]

FINALLY I BEAT THAT STUPID MAP

THE PIT

KILLS: 99%
ITEMS: 82%
SECRET: 100%

TIME: 16:08

i had 103/105 kills because i DARED not to kill those 2 pain elementals in the nukage tunnel

also at 3:45 of Part 3 i was audibly repeating "lost soul biting my ass"

right after that i nearly had a panic attack when i was surrounded and my health reached 7%

Sandy Petersen you sick creature

[fervent coral]

[still blade]

Does anyone have a high quality image of the doom 1 box art? All the ones I can find are really low quality

Nvm I found one

[woven swallow]

hot take: chocolate doom is not a good port to recommend to someone who is starting off with doom (unless if said person wanted doom to feel like ms dos)

[twin mortar]

I don't think anyone's recommending Chocolate DOOM without explicitly stating what it is

[surreal portal]

That’s like lukewarm at best

[finite crag]

use dosbox instead

[twin mortar]

I use DOSBox lol

[thorn jungle]

i don't know how to use DOSBox so i instead used a sourceport

[vale gyro]

Pretty easy, actually. I personally make a folder called C in the same folder as DOSBOX.
You can put any DOS application in there, like DOOM.
You can then type in mount c c to mount the folder to virtual drive C. And then type in C: to actually change to that virtual drive.
You can then use cd [folder name] to move up (like cd doom), and cd .. to move down.
From there, you can just type whatever the exe name is for the application (assuming you're in it's folder)

[thorn jungle]

ohhh

[vale gyro]

Oh yeah, all of those commands (basically minus mount) actually work in the Windows terminal

[native anchor]

What source port do you like using that isn't GZDoom?

[finite crag]

chocolate doom

[twin mortar]

I use the official ones

[native anchor]

That one's pretty good. The most authentic.

But the one issue I have with it is it doesn't let you select what game you want to play if you have multiple wads in. So you'd have to have multiple ones to play all the classic games.

[vale gyro]

Nyan Doom

[vale gyro]

Just use a launcher or -iwad

like quite literally every single other source port

[twin mortar]

Best source port is Doomsday :)

[finite crag]

Risen3D

[twin mortar]

DOOM 3 BFG PC/PS3

[proper jewel]

dsda-doom

[mortal silo]

I've been enjoying woof!

[vale gyro]

It was my port of choice before I switched to Nugget

where I then switched to Nyan Doom as of recent

[azure nimbus]

Check out skillsaw's other work and Antaresian Legacy

Anteresian Legacy is super underrated. It also makes vanilla seeming weapon changes to promote run and gun

[raven finch]

No bullet holes and rocket burns on walls in the steam doom port is really rustling my jims

[finite crag]

zdoom brainrot

i had it too

[halcyon willow]

Ah yes, a Cacoward winning wad by one of the most prolific and venerated mappers of the last 10 years is 'underrated'

Antares is a machine

[azure nimbus]

Yes

I know it''s awarded. It should be even more wellknown

[halcyon willow]

It's extremely well known lol

In the classic doom community at least

[azure nimbus]

yeah

[swift swallow]

First time I heard about that one tbh

[swift swallow]

Dsda-doom with the launcher

[native anchor]

If I had to pick a source port that isn't GZDoom, it would be Crispy Doom for Classic.

It's Chocolate Doom but with some extra QOL improvements like wide screen.

And it looks a bit cleaner than Chocolate because of the higher resolution.

[vale gyro]

Crispy was my first source port I actually used for a long period

Unity was technically my first source port, GZDoom being my first non-official

but I found them both feeling off

especially GZ

[swift swallow]

Flash doom

[native anchor]

GZ is just for mods. So stuff like CE or Brutal Doom. For vanilla, Crispy is what I go for.

[vale gyro]

I started playing more Boom and MBF stuff, so Crispy stopped becoming useful

so I had switched to Woof for a while, later swapping it out for Nugget

and well, now I'm on Nyan Doom

[swift swallow]

I use mostly GZdoom with comp level and software renderer :d DSDA if I want to speedrun and record demos

I wonder if flash doom is still playable with an emulator

[vale gyro]

GZ just feels wrong to me

the physics mainly

I try using it as little as possible and often avoid mods that use it unless they actually catch my eye

which so far has happened like 3 times

[native anchor]

The chainsaw animation in Crispy Doom is also not stuttery like in Chocolate or Doom 64.

[vale gyro]

I like the stuttery chainsaw

[native anchor]

I prefer it being smooth like the other weapons are.

And the chainsaw is still stuttery in Doom 64's Nightdive rerelease. Or even EX Plus.

[vale gyro]

fully respectable

similar to me preferring colored blood

I sorta blame Crispy Doom for that, but I've always been somewhat bothered that monsters always bleed red no matter what their sprite's actual blood color was

[native anchor]

They could at least have tried something like the Gameboy Advance port or Doom 64's Japanese release where they make the blood for everything green. But that's an odd choice.

[swift swallow]

cblood

[pine violet]

Would be nice if we had 3d models of the classic designs for the demons

I know it's possible because of the Gladiator from DOOM Eternal which looks somewhat accurate to the og Hell Knight

[thorn jungle]

the fans can take care of that

[finite crag]

I think the 2D sprites have a lot of charm

Especially knowing that they were made with clay models

[native anchor]

If I'm gonna be honest, E4M1 is harder with GZDoom because you can't get the red key behind the fence there. While you can do this in every other port.

Worked in Crispy Doom and in the Nightdive rerelease in my experience.

[swift swallow]

Dark Ages got classic imps

[native anchor]

E4M2 is also not hard actually. The intro is rough but that's about it.

[swift swallow]

Or the BFG through the wall lol

Oh yeah that was e4m2

[finite crag]

I was considering remaking my doom clone with 2D-sprites (and have my 3D models rigged in different positions to resemble movements and make 2D sprites out of it) but I'm too late into development to just revamp everything

[native anchor]

I wasn't able to do it in Crispy Doom.

Unless I'm doing it wrong.

[swift swallow]

I know I tried it in zdoom and couldn't get it. I'll check dsda

Yeah you can grab the bfg in e4m2 through the wall in dsda-doom

[surreal portal]

its likely because those other ports have more accurate movement timings

you can't do things like escape crushers on the edge anymore

or run so fast you do grabs

[azure nimbus]

Crispy is vanilla compat. It's just a hard trick

[wide sinew]

Sorry for the late reply, but no, the SS Troopers are intact

[woven swallow]

omg i played that wad, it's so underrated

currently trying to single segment map03

[mortal silo]

Is there a port with colored blood?

[woven swallow]

yes
1 crispy doom
2 woof
3 nugget doom
4 cherry doom
5 Prboom+

[mortal silo]

Not retro?

[woven swallow]

there are probably more sourceports that supports colored blood that i probably don't know

[mortal silo]

I don't even notice. Pinkies bleed blue and such?

[woven swallow]

what? they should bleed red, that's strange

[surreal portal]

no, ports with those only have cacodemons bleed blue

Hell Knights and Barons green

[native anchor]

Chocolate Doom or Crispy Doom?

[vast reef]

crispy

it's limit-removing (which means that maps that go past the original doom limits can be ran so you have access to more wads) and has higher resolution support and more qol

right now i don't see much of a reason to pick chocolate or crispy over something like dsda-doom or woof that are more fully featured and can still provide you an authentic 90s doom experience

used to be that for speedrunning crispy doom had something with its tics or whatever that made it needed for some certain speedrun routes to work

but now it works with dsda-doom so yeah

[woven swallow]

non, dsda-doom is your best bet

[fervent coral]

Are we just throwing food infront of the word doom now

Ramen doom
Strawberry doom
Medium steak doom

Tf next
Krispy cream doom????

[woven swallow]

Extra Crispy Doom

[clever coyote]

Parmesean Doom

[hot owl]

Minty doom

[hot owl]

I could fuck up some of those rn actually

[vast reef]

other ports need to get their game on fr

doom retro though....

doom retro mainly makes changes aesthetically and i love what they have done

but it's not a do-everything port... it can't even record demos lol

so speedrunning with it is a no-go

[surreal portal]

other ports have different focuses

like Chocolate Doom's explicit purpose is to relive the DOS experience without the pain of actually having to setup DOS

[vast reef]

it was a joking remark

but honestly it's kinda boring when you only really need dsda-doom and gzdoom </3

but i guess back then it might've just been prboom+ and gzdoom and now we just have a prboom with more features

[vast reef]

nyan doom qol though....

[surreal portal]

yeah, source ports develop and move on over time

like back then it was all about quakespasm, now we got shit like Ironwail for Quake 1

[finite crag]

i use chadquake because i hate myself

[woven swallow]

what's chadquake?

[twin mortar]

Source port

[vast reef]

the equivalent of chocolate doom for quake afaik

but in a more shitposty way

[azure nimbus]

It's called chocolate as in it being not 100 % pure vanilla but a variant

[fervent coral]

lol ik but i was just takeing the piss out of it

for fun :D

[red harbor]

I'd kill for some Big Mac Doom

[fervent coral]

BOOM

B = big mac

[twin mortar]

Big Mac Davis

My hero

[red harbor]

academia

[candid birch]

XD I just peeked at the comments for Civvie's legacy of rust vid and I agree with this comment.

lllXanderlll
6 months ago
This expansion seems like the devs said "what if Plutonia but we've had 30 years for players to get good ?" and then they sat out and made that question into a Doom 2 expansion.

[rich anvil]

I want Chicken Sandwich Doom

[rich anvil]

Legacy of rust? More like legacy of crust 🍕

[hoary cypress]

No mater how many times you play episode 1 it would remains the best one

[icy willow]

yeah

[finite crag]

https://tenor.com/view/doom-2016-doom-4-doom-destructive-criticism-hell-razer-doom-gif-15978813926732819028

Sea salt I need you sea salt!!!!

[icy willow]

WHERE IS OMNI-MAN WHERE IS HE

[native anchor]

Would you be able to use Chocolate Doom and Crispy Doom launchers on Steam Deck?

[surreal portal]

Steam Deck by itself is just a fork of linux

so yes, just use the linux versions of both

[twilit lichen]

Yeah Steam Deck runs on Linux "holo"

[icy willow]

knee deep in the beep beep

[fervent coral]

https://tenor.com/view/bacon-crispy-gif-10372347

Doom

[cedar yacht]

Hi guys

I'm playing sunder at the moment, which I know is a pretty hard wad, I'm playing it on uv. When I beat a sequence using saves I feel like I'm somehow cheating. What are your opinions?

[finite crag]

how is saving considered cheating??

[cedar yacht]

I'm not saying it is, but it is the feeling I get

Saving during a sequence not in general

I'm not doing all the level no saves

[finite crag]

Its an intended game mechanic

[cedar yacht]

Yeah most definitely

[icy willow]

i have the same issues too tbh

it feels like savescumming 💀

considering how bad i am at the game it compounds things when i try not to abuse quicksave

[rich anvil]

I've never understood this argument

"no bro, you're actually not supposed to use the save function that's right there on the menu"

????

[finite crag]

It is objectively not cheating

I hate the word 'objectively' btw.
But it is a fact. Cheats are cheats and saving is not officially listed as a cheat.

[rich anvil]

I mean it definitely feels cool and badass to run n gun through a Doom episode or map pack with no safety net but do whatever makes the game fun for you

[finite crag]

Official doom manual even tells you to save often.

using the ssg is cheating because its a busted weapon

Ikr, it being 20% better than the shotgun is such a cheat move

same for the bfg

(ok it is good, ssg)

[icy willow]

in that case

falls gracefully into the arms of quicksave + quickload

[rich anvil]

Imagine if there was a Hardcore Doom source port that's just the vanilla game with saving disabled and limited lives

[icy willow]

nah fuck that

[rich anvil]

Also all difficulties below HMP disabled

[finite crag]

And it uninstalls itself if you lose all your lives

[rich anvil]

And if you enter a cheat code it deleted your root folder

No, that's way too mean, but it should at least auto kill you, Heretic style

[vale gyro]

I could probably do that as an April fools joke for next year

Dunno how I’d do any of the other stuff, though

[fair tendon]

Has anyone heard of this wad called My House?

[rich anvil]

Yes I played through it with my roommate last year 10/10 great wad

[halcyon willow]

This is a problem you've created for yourself. The manual for classic Doom says you should save. If you weren't meant to save then the mechanic wouldn't have been added to the game

[finite crag]

this.

[vast reef]

saveless is the norm for speedrunners and decino because that's the only way to record a demo

but if you aren't recording a demo, go and save

if you feel bad about savescumming then limit yourself to a number of saves per map

[vast reef]

has anyone heard of this movie called back to the future

or of this book called harry potter

[finite crag]

i havent

[lunar rune]

Or limit yourself to saving at specific times, I save every 3 minutes or everytime I get a key

[fair tendon]

So you did play My house.wad

[unreal pike]

anyone know this? https://github.com/angea/doom-poly

[onyx shoal]

🫵

[hexed escarp]

ive been playing tnt for the first time recently and ive only gotten thru the first 7 maps so far, but what has struck me immediately is that tnt maps have the strongest sense of place out of all of the iwads

like for example in map06, there is that one room with the reactor core looking things

even though its incredibly crudely detailed, it still gave me the feeling that i was at the heart of some facility and i was activating a giant machine

[azure nimbus]

some maps in sunder haven't been beaten without saves (if this isn't true, it's changed recently). You have to respect what level you are playing. If it's so difficult and long, saves are necessary. If you insist on saveless, you have to play something more within reason

[thorn jungle]

i've struggled with Map09 UV, now it's time to suffer with Map10 UV

Bullets: 37/400
Shells: 83/100
Rockets: 27/100
Cells: 200/600

[azure nimbus]

every map can be maxed from pistol start. so no worries

[thorn jungle]

Health: 196%
Armor: 103% (Megaarmor)

[thorn jungle]

i'm fine with pistol starts, but at the same time i don't wanna lose all my hard earned stuff

although.... this is doom 2, not 64

[azure nimbus]

Luckily, a lot of levels in d2 have a bfg.. Oddly, many lack an ssg

[vast reef]

nah

[thorn jungle]

i don't see bfgs laying around a lot in doom 2

[azure nimbus]

map 8,9,10 all have one

[thorn jungle]

map 7 is not counted

[surreal portal]

there's literally 19-20 of them depending on skill level over the IWAD

[thorn jungle]

mentally counting....

[surreal portal]

once you start seeing BFGs, doom 2 generally has 1 every map after

secret or not

[thorn jungle]

map 7 map 8 is the first instance

then until map 10, map 11 doesn't have any...

does map 12 (The Factory) have any BFGs?

[surreal portal]

yes

it does actually have one

[thorn jungle]

caco room?

[surreal portal]

no, the dark chaingunner room

[thorn jungle]

oh that one yeah that sucked

BFG isn't even worth it if you have like 10% below health left and 0% armor

[mortal silo]

Best enhancement mods for vanilla? Ala final Doom, smooth weapons, etc

[median cloud]

Are u sure? I thought all of them have

Kinetic made this doom bounty site and iirc all sunder ones were beaten

[azure nimbus]

Like I said, if it was beaten, it's been recently because they're so difficult

[finite crag]

Yeah...
Like, you can also shotgun-start every map in the original quake, as goated decino showed. Too bad it is apparently an awful task

[halcyon willow]

They all have actually. Zeromaster, Kinetic Bevarge I know have UVmax runs of the new Sunder maps

There's a couple other mad lads who have done it too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cc8HCv8c-M&feature=youtu.be

[finite crag]

Ah, zeromaster, the guy who 100%-d TNT on Nightmare, no deaths.
No one else does that, how does bro do it

first time watching a sunder video... I did not expect that music

[halcyon willow]

Zeromaster is a freak, and not just at classic Doom

Pretty sure he had the Doom Eternal UN record at one point

[finite crag]

He did yh

And one of the first nightmare horde mode (tho nightmare horde mode is not that bad if you know what to do)

Tho nightmare horde mode is hell if you'd go for all phases including bonus

[surreal portal]

It’s just doom maps were designed to be beaten with just the ammo on the map and maybe some infighting

Quake maps never had that design thing really, many times you gotta cut it real close or use quite unorthodox methods to do a 100%

[halcyon willow]

Only if the mapper designed it that way

[finite crag]

yeah decino explained it real well

some really out-of-the-box strategies were used in his quake video

whereas every doom-level is designed with pistol start in mind... tho I never pistol-start

[halcyon willow]

No it's not

Doom 1 and 2 were designed to be continuous

You have to cheat to pistol start map

[twin mortar]

Or die lol

[halcyon willow]

Or that

[surreal portal]

Yes but you can beat any level with merely the resources there

Uv max it without pulling shit out of your ass plan wise

[halcyon willow]

Only because infighting exists

There are some maps that are ass to pistol start

[surreal portal]

But still doable

[finite crag]

It was least made with the idea that it could be pistol-started in mind

[halcyon willow]

Everything is doable

[finite crag]

Official doom ports allow pistol-start on every map without cheat

[surreal portal]

Decino had to pull some extremely time consuming strats to 100% the quake maps at times

[finite crag]

I still prefer continuous play

[halcyon willow]

The original classic Doom creators have nothing to do with those ports

[finite crag]

Yeah the whole telefragging zombies thing was insane

[halcyon willow]

They're legally offficial

[twin mortar]

Isn't KEX the only one?

[finite crag]

Fair. Again I'm just going by what other people have said, I know I can be wrong in my statements

[surreal portal]

And? They’re still decently uvmaxable

[finite crag]

Right now, it seems so.

[halcyon willow]

Irrelevant

[finite crag]

I'm not pretending I'm infallible

[surreal portal]

You are t having to pull esoteric strays like long distance zombie luring

[halcyon willow]

You can tyson every map. That doesn't mean they're balanced around only using your fist

[finite crag]

i know, I saw his video

[halcyon willow]

That's the whole point of challenge runs. They're outside of the designed playstyle

[surreal portal]

Not really my point, point is doom maps even in 1 are much more fresh start friendly

[finite crag]

I think it was made clear that every level was made that it was possible to beat them pistol-start (like if a player dies during a map)

[surreal portal]

Especially as if you die you start with a pistol start

[halcyon willow]

Possibly when compared to quake, but they weren't specifically designed for pistol starts

[finite crag]

Unlike Quake, where die and you get your stuff back you had from the previous level

Not specifically designed but the possibility in mind

[surreal portal]

You can in fact technically pistol start every map without cheats

You just die

[halcyon willow]

Just die lmao

gg ez

[surreal portal]

The maps were designed to be completed decently well even if you bit it

[finite crag]

Like I've said

[halcyon willow]

Got a quote to back that up?

Don't make assumptions about design intent without talking to the people who made it

Emergent gameplay is a thing

[finite crag]

Sometimes things become apparent within the game's context

But yes, direct quotes from designers can be helpful

[surreal portal]

The fact that it’s a built ingame thing that if you die you restart the level at base health and 50 bullets?

The maps were clearly designed to still be beatable with that restriction without having to pull some voodoo BS

[finite crag]

I can't find a specific quote. Again, I have stated that my takes could be wrong and that I'm not infallible. But I don't see specific quotes that say that it is explicitly not made with pistol start in mind

And yeah, sometimes actions speak.

[surreal portal]

Quakes were not

Decino had to pull some shit to kill zombies at times

Because no explosive weapon

[finite crag]

I know

[surreal portal]

Was talking to bridge mainly

[finite crag]

👍

[halcyon willow]

It's possible to beat doom 1 with only your fist

[surreal portal]

Dooms maps were clearly meant to be able to be beaten via pistol starts even maxed

[halcyon willow]

I don't think that means it's intended

[surreal portal]

Using merely the ammo on the map

[halcyon willow]

Nope

Makign assumptions

I've interviewed Romero. So much off their early work was fucking around and finding out

[twin mortar]

Some of them obviously were, like map 30, but I have no clue about every single one

[surreal portal]

No, you’re the one making clearly false statements given the games restart system and amount of ammo on some maps

[halcyon willow]

Doing stuff becuase it felt good, not because of any deeply thought out game theory

[finite crag]

Whatever the intentions of the devs, it's clear from the way it was designed that pistol-starting is a viable option

[surreal portal]

E1m8 for example straight up gives you a chaingun and rocket launcher with plenty of ammo

To take out the barons and pinkies

[halcyon willow]

It's a chaingun and a shotgun

[surreal portal]

Ah right

Still plenty of ammo

Tyson runs aren’t exactly a factor because you’re intentionally not using the resources the map gives you

[halcyon willow]

So are you if you pistol start

oooo a bot

kill it

[finite crag]

Thank you vega

[halcyon willow]

I love that feature

[azure nimbus]

Now usually, pistol start is harder -- except e4m2. Doing that straightup from e4m1 would be cool

[halcyon willow]

Insta nuke

[surreal portal]

No, you’re still using map resources

If they didn’t intend for maps to be pistol started in part why is there a pickupable bfg in nearly every map once they first start showing up

[twin mortar]

The comparison of Tyson to pistol-starting is quite silly anyway because that would imply dying means you automatically are doing a challenge run, it's a natural part of the game

[surreal portal]

Meanwhile in quake there are more than a few maps where you find cell pickups but no thunderbolt

[halcyon willow]

Not the previous map

[halcyon willow]

You are

Because reloading exists

You are adding challenge by refusing to load a previous save

UV Max is literally a type of challenge speed run

[twin mortar]

It's still intentional, the game doesn't reload a save for you if you die, which is something they have to had done intentionally

[halcyon willow]

So?

You have to intentionally play the game

Doom doesn't turn itself on for you

[twin mortar]

That's even wackier comparison now lol

I'm not saying maps are designed for it, I said earlier I believe some of them are but I'm not sure about ALL, I'm just saying comparing Tyson to just straight up dying is quite the leap

Yeah you're making it harder for yourself by reloading but there is no way they didn't account for the fact the player can die

[halcyon willow]

None of these terms existed when Doom came out. Tyson, UV Max, pistol start, Any % etc are all arbitrary challenges the community has decided are worth tracking. There's new ones added if they become popular etc

[surreal portal]

You pistol start by dying

[halcyon willow]

Only the creator can confirm what the design intent was

[surreal portal]

They clearly intended for the map to be bearable in the event of a death

[halcyon willow]

Everything else is projection

[surreal portal]

Why else is there a copy of every weapon basically after you first normally find them normally

If you can find ammo for the gun on the map, the gun is there somewhere

[surreal portal]

We’re taking about original doom in the first place

(Also doom 95 had launcher level select years beforehand)

[rich anvil]

What if there was a Doom mod that enforces pistol start? Like maybe a zscript that runs at the start of every level and sets your health/armor/ammo etc. to default values

I think I played a vanilla wad once that used some kind of map design trick to kill the player and end the level so that player goes into the next level with nothing (I think it was something involving a voodoo doll surrounded by exploding barrels)

[surreal portal]

Existed for a while now

And even then not necessary

Just idclev

[hexed escarp]

damn tnt map09 is bs

ah yes, i am going to make a map with 10000 hitscanners, no cover, only tight hallways, 1000 doors, and no health pickups

also the progression is insanely confusing

definitely the worst map in the set so far

i love the vibe that tnt maps have tho

[surreal portal]

yeah expect more of that

after the initial maps, TNT falls into a real problem of constant lower level enemy spam

[hexed escarp]

its funny how much more consistently good the plutonia map design is than tnt

[halcyon willow]

I've made mapsets that do that. Don't event need zscript, can do it through mapinfo

Paradise has a pistol start mode

[azure nimbus]

A few ports have that as an option. Thing is, people who care enough to type the command for -pistolstart and get a port that has it and read to know that the port has that feature are the same people perfectly willing to type -warp # or idclev## instead

[rich anvil]

I'm updating my GZdoom from 4.8.2 to 4.14.1, anyone know if the ini files are backwards compatible? Can I just use the same settings? I don't want to have to completely redo my controls and graphical settings etc. 😦

I'm also having trouble getting 4.14.1 to even see into my Soundfonts folder

also lol @ GZdoom putting the .ini file in My Documents now

I sure am glad it doesn't put it in the same folder as the exe, that would make way too much sense

[rich anvil]

The wiki says GZDoom since 4.9.0 comes in a portable and non-portable version; where can I find the portable version? The website only has the non-portable one uuugh I'm so confused

sorry for being whiny but why can't GZDoom see into my wads folder? This should be the easiest thing in the world to troubleshoot. It can see my iwads if I put them into the same folder as the exe but I don't wanna do that

Is it like, a file format thing? Did something change? Are GZDoom .ini files not compatible across versions?

apparently GZDoom can be set up as a portable app if the ini file is renamed as gzdoom_portable.ini, so at least there's that question answered

game still doesn't want to use my wad folder, which is fine, I love it when the software I've been using for years breaks for no reason /s

[rich anvil]

:<

think I'm just gonna stick with 4.8.2 unless someone has a compelling reason I should update.... sorry for the spam I know this is a slow channel

[vast reef]

a LOT of reason to update if you play mods

mostly just that a lot need a version newer than 4.8.2

[vast reef]

just use a launcher that seems like it should fix all your problems

[mortal silo]

Just use woof! Already it has everything a slayer could want

[mortal silo]

Colored blood, weapon slots, pistol start mode, weapon carasol, fov slider, mp3 support, and voxels.

Yes it's another Boom sourceport fork. Dsda-Doom is another one, and has a rewind button, like prince of Persia. But all the easy access options if Woof! have converted me.

https://www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/152166-rc1-earthless/

Y'all need to check this one out. High quality vanilla megawad that is influenced by the classics but very much does its own thing.

[vast reef]

woof/dsda and gz is basically the standard and all you really need

but dsda is more commonly used (or at least recommended) than woof these days

[finite crag]

unzased

[vast reef]

zaser

[vale gyro]

You want all 3 tbh

As Woof is having partial ID24 support iirc

[thorn jungle]

it did?

[vale gyro]

For the record DSDA-Doom does have pistol starting, colored blood, and mp3 support

Though colored blood isn’t an option in settings

But it does have the dehacked support for it

Nyan Doom does have the option, though

Also, technically every source port has pistol starting

Just some (as you’re referring to) have a direct option for it to be automatically done

Iirc DSDA does have weapon slots as well, but I’m not 100% sure in that regard

Well, if I’m understanding what you even mean by such

[vast reef]

i think youd prioritize woof over dsda if you aren't a speedrunner (and care about the id24 wads) then

but yeah all 3

[vale gyro]

true

I used to use Woof and Nugget, actually

just wanted a good looking hardware renderer at one point so I switched to Nyan

[vale gyro]

tbh, I actually don't know at this point

so consider that null and void

[silver sage]

Does gz doom have multiplayer?

[vale gyro]

Currently working on it iirc, but otherwise no

[silver sage]

So only the most recent ports of the game have multiplayer?

[vale gyro]

No

the official port is absolute dogshit in netcode

your best bet is Zandronum

there's also Odamex and another one I completely forgot about tbh

ZDaemon, that's what it was

[silver sage]

Whats that?

[vale gyro]

also I guess you got anything running Chocolate Doom's netcode (Chocolate, Crispy, Woof, maybe some others not counting forks)

[vale gyro]

What's what?

[silver sage]

Im new to pc doom

So idk what any of this is?

Ive only played gzdoom

[vale gyro]

the 3 ports I just listed (prior to me talking about Chocolate Doom) are all multiplayer-orientated source ports based off of ZDoom

Zandronum overall might have the most compatibility with GZ, but not by much

those 3 are also server-based, so it may feel a tad better to play on those ports

for anything running Chocolate Doom's netcode, it's p2p, so it's not as great

but it works

[silver sage]

Again you say this like i know what chocolate doom is

[vale gyro]

it's a vanilla-accurate source port

[vast reef]

gzdoom has lan multiplayer

you can port forward if you want but you're better off using zand

[vale gyro]

yeah, GZ does have multiplayer, but the netcode is just horrendous and outdated

[surreal portal]

it'd help to look up the sourceports on doomwiki

or the actual page for said source port via google

[vast reef]

odamex has better netcode

[vale gyro]

I've really only used Zandronum and I don't like it too much

[vast reef]

cocopepe1.... this is why i tell you to mention less source ports....

[vale gyro]

mainly because I'm not a fan of ZDoom movement

[surreal portal]

you only use zandronum for netplay over zdoom mods

[vast reef]

^up

odamex has better netcode so use it for vanilla multiplayer

[surreal portal]

otherwise for actual serious netplay you'd pop in Odamex

[vale gyro]

Odamex is still ZDoom based

it's the closest to vanilla out of the 3, but it's still far from it

[vast reef]

name me a vanilla-accurate multiplayer source port right now then big boy

[vast reef]

yeah so you. use it for vanilla multiplayer.

[vale gyro]

I did earlier lmao

anyways, there's a website for Zandronum that allows you to start servers w/o port forwarding

not sure if there's any equivalent for the others, though

[vast reef]

yeah but those are only really gonna work well enough for lan parties right

[vale gyro]

when you sent that message, you said just vanilla-accurate

[vast reef]

yeah thats a big plus

[vast reef]

true but like. context

[vale gyro]

context doesn't really matter when I read sentences in a literal sense

so yeah, my bad

[vast reef]

yeah its fine dw

have u gotten tested 4 anything

[vale gyro]

nope

[vast reef]

answer that in #general

oh ok nvm thats a fast discussion

[vale gyro]

anyways

your best bet is probably Zandronum @silver sage

though, I suggest checking out Odamex as well

not familiar with ZDaemon, though

[rich anvil]

I don't want to install more software, I want the software I've been using for years to work the way it's supposed to

[vale gyro]

as a developer, that's just basically impossible to do

adding features usually means changing others

[rich anvil]

:c

[vale gyro]

honestly, a launcher will fix this issue, among other future ones (relating to load order of mods)

I can look into it and try to see what's happening, but I doubt I'll turn up anything

especially with my more limited knowledge of GZ

[surreal portal]

yeah like, any ZDL derivative will let you easily pick things out like order of multiple mods etc

and other helpful things

not really a reason to not use one

you can even save presets

[vale gyro]

ZDL's interface at first is kinda iffy, but it's otherwise simple to use

[rich anvil]

I mean if I can't set a folder path in gzdoom_portable.ini and have gzdoom recognize the folder, then that also means I can't use custom sound fonts, that's actually the bigger issue tbh

[vale gyro]

shit, fair point

and I'm not gonna recommend you a solution I use, as it's not what your looking for

I faintly remember a command line parameter you can use, though

to set what config file you use, that is

assuming GZDoom can't pick up on the config file

it's -config

[rich anvil]

I'll try that later :0

[onyx shoal]

[fervent coral]

:O he lok bot wa

aproved

[velvet lodge]

[woven swallow]

i swear fractured world is gonna be the death of me

[native anchor]

Could you be able to get Crispy Doom running on Steam Deck (Or any Linux distro) by downloading the Windows download and using Proton?

[vale gyro]

yeah, but there's honestly no reason to

as Crispy Doom is on most repos, and is very easy to compile for systems that don't have it

[native anchor]

I tried installing for Steam Deck but I wasn't able to. I installed it through the Discover store app but I wasn't able to find the file location for it to put the WAD files and the launcher in.

[surreal portal]

yeah just use the linux version

no need to use a layer when you can just natively run crispy doom

[native anchor]

Which download is it though? Is it the arm64 one?

[vale gyro]

more than likely, yes

your best bet is to download from discover store, put your IWADs where you want and open the terminal in that folder

you'd do crispy-doom -iwad [whatever]

[native anchor]

I tried doing that before but I wasn't able to find the file location for it to put the WADs in. And Discover doesn't have a dedicated button for that.

[vale gyro]

like I said, put it in any folder

and then open that folder in the terminal

[native anchor]

WDYM any folder?

[vale gyro]

I literally mean any folder

your documents, some random folder in your home folder

just in the home folder straight up

[native anchor]

Okay, I made a folder in documents, named it Crispy Doom, put the 2 WADs in. Then what?

And I have Crispy Doom installed through Discovery.

[vale gyro]

do the Steam Deck's equivalent of a right click, I guess

there should be a context menu that pops up, one of the options being "Open In Terminal" or similar

if not, go back to the folder the folder itself is contained in, and do the same directly on that folder

[native anchor]

Clicked "Open Terminal Here" while on the Crispy Doom folder I made, then what?

This would be easier if this server had image perms.

[vale gyro]

this

just replace [whatever] with the WAD name

so for example, crispy-doom -iwad DOOM2.WAD

and yes, capitalization is important unlike Windows

[native anchor]

It's not working.

[vale gyro]

error?

[native anchor]

It's saying command not found.

[vale gyro]

sigh

let me see where the fuck Discovery Store even pulls from

it's probably pulling from flathub

so replace crispy-doom with flatpak run io.github.fabiangreffrath.Doom

that might work

[native anchor]

Still not working. It says the WAD is not found.

[vale gyro]

are you absolutely sure you are in the right folder?

[native anchor]

The one I made?

[vale gyro]

yes

[native anchor]

That's what I opened the Terminal on and it still doesn't work.

[vale gyro]

type in ls and if it doesn't show up your WAD files, you're in the wrong folder

also, like I said, capitalization is important

you have to put in exactly what the filename is

also, just move over to DMs so you can send over images

[native anchor]

To anyone who uses Linux Mint or any distro that is Ubuntu based, what source ports actually work that don't use flatpaks?

[whole crown]

GZDoom, Chocolate Doom, Zandronum, Crispy Doom, PrBoom+ (DSDA-Doom variant recommended)

Best choice is GZdoom.

Got a lot of accesibility and personalization.

[noble fractal]

woof doom is by default in the ubuntu repos

You can have it as a portable appimage on github which imo is best https://github.com/fabiangreffrath/woof/releases/tag/woof_15.2.0

my only problem with boom/mbf clones is that you cant scale the hud

and it ends up looking pretty massive on a 1080p monitor

[vale gyro]

-# GZDoom being the best choice is highly subjective

-# try them all out for yourself

[unreal pike]

https://github.com/rauchg/doom-captcha anyone know this?

[rich anvil]

Penguins are so cool

[vale gyro]

agreed
-# I am 100% not biased, I swear

[lunar rune]

Penguins are indeed cool, Ceroba

[native anchor]

What are some good source ports for Classic Doom in general (Besides GZDoom or Chocolate/Crispy)?

[vale gyro]

Woof (also Nugget Doom), DSDA-Doom (also Nyan Doom)

I was gonna add more to that list but I genuinely can't think of others...

[finite crag]

bro already asked the same question for the fifth time

[thorn jungle]

PrBoom+

• removes lost soul limit
• makes lost souls bouncy
• has a crosshair that changes color
• makes blaze door sfx not double (toggleable)
• high graphics
• has features literally any other source port has
• decino uses it

[woven swallow]

Dsda doom, Nyan doom, Woof, nugget doom, cherry doom, from doom with love

[woven swallow]

but removing lost souls limit is not a classic doom feature

[finite crag]

And its also aids

[thorn jungle]

i dunno i use it and don't see any problems with it

[native anchor]

Who would want that?

That would make Pain Elementals even more pain.

[thorn jungle]

i personally keep it on despite me despising Pain Elementals

[native anchor]

The Pain Elementals are at the worst in Doom 64, but I digress.

[surreal portal]

decino moved onto dsda doom a while back

there's basically no reason to use PrBoom+ these days, dsda entirely supercedes it

[hexed escarp]

i use linux mint and i like to play on woof

by setting the complevel setting, you can make it behave exactly like the original version of the engine, or like a more upgraded engine like boom or mbf

and it has the nicest menu of any source port ive used

the mouse support in menus is very nice and the settings are way better organized

its basically like dsda-doom and crispy doom had a baby

[azure nimbus]

I doubt he still uses prb+ at this point. Whether he does or not, it's outdated. DSDA is its successor

[surreal portal]

like i said, he moved to dsda a while back

[vast reef]

better off with dsda-doom, fork of prb+

[thorn jungle]

yeah ik already

[vast reef]

bro knows

yessss the knower

[thorn jungle]

i'm still using prboom since i already have a lot of doom 2 progress

[vast reef]

knowmaxxing in the biig 25 is crazy

[vast reef]

yeah fair idk if the saves transfer

[thorn jungle]

plus i do not wanna play perfect hatred again after i've completed it (desperately attempts to forget mysrlf shooting the cyberdemon until it dies instead of telefragging it)

[twin mortar]

I just run past it

[thorn jungle]

it's gonna pester you as you try to fight/squeeze yourself through the cacos

[versed nymph]

Anyone wanna do modded multiplayer?

[vast reef]

what mods

i havent had the classic zand experience of mm8bdm or complex yet 💔

[sonic spade]

who want to play DOOM + DOOM 2 deathmatch

[solar whale]

I did not know that doom and doom II were on mobile

[visual hamlet]

who up entrying their way

[hollow sundial]

Im going to it

[steady mica]

anyone here wanna play a vanilla coop?

[charred ermine]

https://youtu.be/PC1r33iVFAQ

am i crazy or does the beginning of this song sound like doom song

[uncut arch]

I am struggling to harness the utter manpower required to experience "Classical Doom™" on my state of the art fiddle

[charred ermine]

interesting

[uncut arch]

Are any quipt to to tackleboxeth such paradoxical queries??

My floppy disc appears to be a little too floppy and I lack thee instrumental Viagra

I NEEED a reply ☺️

[steady mica]

reply

[steady mica]

it does

[finite crag]

Hey, noticing Cyriak made a new version of Going Down called Going Down: Turbo recently. Has anyone played it and can say what it's like compared to the original? Loved the original as my favorite fanmade WAD.

[surreal portal]

basically faster paced and a bit lighter in monsters iirc

[vale gyro]

Also the maps were touched up on visually

And they made the pistol actually usable (they increased the fire rate)

[lunar rune]

Guessing he did that cause he did that in Overboard too, such a good change

[smoky pond]

Playing 1993 Doom for the first time

Any tips or things to avoid?

[twin mortar]

If it takes too long, don't worry. After some time, you'll be able to run through the game within an hour

[surreal portal]

tap fire the chaingun to get 100% accurate 2 bullet shots

[native anchor]

Save at the start of every level so you don’t have to do a pistol start if you die.

[vale gyro]

Don’t stress over what difficulty you play

Also, secrets do help a ton in some maps

So do try to find them when you can

[azure nimbus]

Or do play pistol start because every level is designed for it

[surreal portal]

the guy legit just started

[azure nimbus]

Yeah and he's playing the vanilla maps

Doom, as the original levels are, is relatively easy for someone practiced in shooters after the last 30 years. It's really not some super unfair super hard old school style game. Certainly, those exist, but doom is quite fair and designed with pistol start in mind. It was even designed with keyboard only in mind (even if that's harder)

[rich anvil]

"it was even designed with keyboard only"

Why do people always say this? Original Doom supported kb+mouse at release

Heck, Wolfenstein 3D had kb+mouse support at release and that was a year before Doom

[finite crag]

doom is not a 3d game

[marsh whale]

The original DOOM had keyboard and mouse support but it was just not very popular at the time.

[marsh whale]

Also, DOOM does use a 3D engine, it's just very limited.

[finite crag]

og doom artstyle was meant to be cartoony

[rich anvil]

But yeah my advice is play it however you want, it's one of the greatest games ever made and has basically unlimited replay value but you only get to play through it for the first time once

[marsh whale]

I can agree with that.

[marsh whale]

It's more complicated than that. This video can help youhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYGJQqhMN1U&ab_channel=borogk

[twin mortar]

The guy is baiting lol

[mortal silo]

The demos that autoplay from the title screen are using mouse+keyboard. Doom has always been a mouse and keyboard game.

[azure nimbus]

The thing that I said is absolutely true. Keyboard only was a valid way to play: it was kept "in mind." You're substituting in a myth you've heard from some other person that I didn't say. I didn't say that the game is keyboard only or didn't support mouse. That would be false. But it's nto what I said

[azure nimbus]

Likewise, the thing I said to hormonallisa.
I am aware that it always had mouse control. But I'm also aware that keyboard only was one of the selectable (and I believe the default) setting of the game.

So in terms of "keyboard only was kept in mind", that's true. I'm not saying that it's a keyboard only game.

[azure nimbus]

Every object has a height, length width. Every object has an x,y,z coordinate. Height exists in relevant ways: collision. Taller things can fit in fewer spaces. Monsters are unwilling to hop down very high heights and unable to scale very high heights. Players will take longer to hit the ground when they fall farther. Players only have movement control while grounded. Players can make longer jumps between floors if there is a greater height difference and they were moving faster. Projectiles can be dodged along the vertical axis. Switches that are shootable factor in height (I'm not sure if this is because of the trigger itself though. I think it's instead because of surrounding geometry. Rockets that hit the ground will explode. This happens if a cyber is above you and shooting down. Lifts exist. They're not just loading screens. Doomguy doesn't have control in-air which makes descending stairs harder to control. Lost souls that hit the ground will bounce (in doom1).

There are limitations. No normal room-over-room. Lost souls awkwardly bump into items when charging at any height. Monsters can't be on top of monsters. But all the fundamentals are there for 3d space.

[finite crag]

I know

[azure nimbus]

So why say it?

[finite crag]

I thought we were saying dumb things people still believe to this day

[azure nimbus]

Yall are shadowboxing with something I didn't even say. I didn't say that doom was keyboard only full stop. But rather that it supported that as a valid option

[finite crag]

wait what

i didnt even read what you said before hormonalisa message

[rich anvil]

Shrug I play Doom on hmp with an 8bitdo controller for maximum couch compatibility

[vale gyro]

another 8BitDo controller user?! (I play Doom with k&m, but still)

[surreal portal]

keyboard only was accomodated for but its hardly the ideal way

like, have fun circle strafing

[azure nimbus]

Oh sure

[surreal portal]

They tried to keep KB support but it just got worse and worse as FPSes started to dabble into actual 3d

heaven forbid Quake with KB only

[azure nimbus]

the game is 3d #classic-doom message #classic-doom message

[surreal portal]

not what i meant at all

talking better usage of 3d space

[azure nimbus]

Or maybe vertical aim you mean?

Certainly that's more awkward on keyboard

[surreal portal]

there's a LOT more verticality and air importance in level design and enemy positioning in Quake

have fun trying even basic rocket jumping on KB

let alone precision rocket jump chaining

[rich anvil]

Yeah I have the sn30 pro (or plus? I forget) it's the one that looks like a SNES controller but with dual sticks and trigger buttons

[vale gyro]

I have the Xbox Pro 2

as it was the only Xbox controller with a PS layout I could find

[rich anvil]

It still blows my mind that people played Quake on consoles back in the day. I feel like you really need a mouse for even intermediate movement tech

[surreal portal]

even worse, trying that on a n64 controller

[finite crag]

quake 2 on a playstation controller

[rich anvil]

Doom on an Atari 2600 controller

Fun fact: The Sega Genesis has the same controller port as an Atari 2600 which means you can absolutely play Doom on an Atari controller (but probably not very well)

[lunar rune]

This is all true. I'm not sure why people genuinely think DOOM isn't 3D or at least 2.5D. The game has an XYZ.

However, unfortunately, we all know the truth. DOOM isn't real 3D. It's 1.5D.

[azure nimbus]

If Sandy says it, I believe it and that's good enough for me

[onyx shoal]

Doom i think is 2d but it has 3d graphics so it's mostly 2.5d

[vast reef]

this is wrong btw, doom is 3d, just limited

[vast reef]

❌ it's 3d with 2d sprites and limitations like weird vertical movement and no true room-over-room because of its map format

[finite crag]

Doom is a 1.5D game

[vast reef]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/890530510969897000/1359051372871290931/DfsEksh.png?ex=67f612b9&is=67f4c139&hm=3a5c533ff527c5b953e7b457245df5df293951b7d2b5988e30b807ed9566e03c&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=563&height=563

sorry guys i didnt backread

[vast reef]

https://www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/105358-linear-doom/

[finite crag]

true

[woven swallow]

it has all 3 axis tho, it's literally in the source code. And even without that just use common sense. How can projectiles fly over your head? how can you hang above damging floors and not take damage? Why can you stand on platforms that is too high or low? How can you strafe run over items in the middle of platforms (basically jumping over it) autom aim lets you shoot enemies that is too high or low, could it be because there is a third axis?

[finite crag]

ik

[vestal flower]

Yo

[marsh whale]

just admit that you got humbled lol

[vestal flower]

Doom is a 2d game tho

[finite crag]

Humbled by what exactly?

[marsh whale]

you said doom is 2D

[vestal flower]

It is, it may look like 3d, but that's programing illusions

[flint crest]

Doom has been confirmed by both Romero and Carmack to be 3D.

It uses Bilboarding; 3d perspective and environment, objects and enemies use 2D sprites.

An actual 2D game would not have to move in all 3 axis, only 2; Doom has all 3 axis movement.

Highly recommend people start looking up what 3D actually is, and what 2D actually is.

Especially 2D, because anyone pretending doom is 2D has never seen an actual 2D game.

[marsh whale]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYGJQqhMN1U&ab_channel=borogk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYMZsMMlubg

[finite crag]

You have already posted that video

[flint crest]

By extension, Wolfenstein 3D is also, as in the name, a 3D game.

[marsh whale]

yeah

[marsh whale]

less so than doom obviously

[flint crest]

3D is 3D.

It is a game built in 3 dimensions that uses 2D sprites for enemies and objects. It is identical in construction to Doom.

[marsh whale]

wolfenstein uses raycasting

[vestal flower]

Wait, we're all wrong

[flint crest]

Doom simply has more polish. Doom also uses raycasting.

[marsh whale]

i know

[finite crag]

i know

[flint crest]

Both titles are 3D games, have been since they were originally released, people need to stop parroting "it's 2D!" or the "it's 2.5D!" bullshit.

[marsh whale]

I agree that they are both 3D

wolfenstein is a lot more limited though

[flint crest]

It's limited, but still functionally identical.

[vestal flower]

Wait, how can doom run in 3d if ms dos doesn't have a processor for 3d graphics?

[flint crest]

It did.

Ms DOS supported tons of 3D games.

All the way back from 1981 to 1990, it had a bunch of them.

[finite crag]

1.5D

[flint crest]

You literally do not understand dimensions if you legitimately belive that's how doom is.

[vestal flower]

That's too far

[flint crest]

It's 3D, quit parroting shit.

[finite crag]

K

[vestal flower]

Let's all agree it's 3d

[marsh whale]

they are both 3D

[finite crag]

Seriously, you must be fun at parties

[flint crest]

Misinformation isn't something you should be spreading.

[finite crag]

Misinformation by just telling a joke about how Sandy said that dumb thing? lmao

[flint crest]

The constant "it's 2d!" nonsense being parroted as if it's fact is exhausting, and incredibly irritating to see.

Sandy was never mentioned until now.

[vestal flower]

You're probably mistaking rendering for loading parallel lines

[hot owl]

Oh she's great at em

[finite crag]

You're taking this stuff too seriously

[vestal flower]

Lol

[vestal flower]

You are

[finite crag]

like damn chill

[flint crest]

Oh I'm very calm. You, however, seem pressed that you were called out.

[marsh whale]

can we all just agree to disagree

[flint crest]

I have the best parties, cause I get the best booze.

[finite crag]

Called out for what?

[vestal flower]

Or we can stop talking altogether

[finite crag]

You dont seem to be calm at all

[marsh whale]

this is such a silly argument

[finite crag]

???

[hot owl]

She is, she's just Australian. We're all very angry sounding

[flint crest]

But Thomas, clearly ending sentences with periods means mad!

[finite crag]

I dont think I've seen any australian with such anger issues just because someone said doom was a 1.5D game

[flint crest]

Anger issues.

[hot owl]

It's not anger, it's just our tone.

[marsh whale]

doom being a 1.5d game does not make sense

[flint crest]

You were corrected, now you're projecting.

[finite crag]

Because its a fucking joke

[marsh whale]

I love aussies

[finite crag]

Corrected for what??
Literally I was corrected for what?

[flint crest]

"Doom is a 1.5d / 2.5d game".

[hot owl]

Same, I love fellow Australians

[flint crest]

I corrected something blatantly false.

[hot owl]

-> has a xyz axis

[marsh whale]

I'm part Australian and have lived there for 4 years

[flint crest]

Built on a previous game that was also 3d.

[finite crag]

You “corrected” nothing lmao

You just like proving people wrong for the sake of it
And thats all

[hot owl]

What are you yapping about

[hot owl]

Its called correcting misinformation.

[finite crag]

what misinformation??

[finite crag]

I literally was saying a bunch of stuff that people still think that are true

[hot owl]

You said that doom was a 1.5d game, she corrected that

[finite crag]

🤦

[vestal flower]

This is why I haven't talked in the server for a month

[flint crest]

Average generic doomslayer moment tbh.

[finite crag]

at least im not an asshole that loves proving people wrong even when they were clearly joking

[vestal flower]

THEN TELL US

[finite crag]

but honestly this is pointless

[marsh whale]

woah chill out

[flint crest]

This is why I basically block anyone with doomslayer in their name.

[hot owl]

Same, usually. W other characters it's a roulette

[vestal flower]

Lol

[woven swallow]

it is not

[vestal flower]

I said that an hour ago, I forgot some stuff

[woven swallow]

or this is another joke my dumbahh is taking seriously again

[honest flower]

Is there a damage numbers mod for classic doom? I am playing though Brutal doom, and want to see the damage I deal more clear. I tried "damnums" (the only thing I could find) and while it's ok, it 1) bricks the save file making it impossible to load without the mod, 2) it dissplays additional number (1000~3000) which seems to be a score of some kind, and makes actual damage harder to read and 3) damage numbers can be abstructed by walls and sealing making numbers sometimes impossible to read

[flint crest]

The closest I can find is DamNums by Xaser on Doomworld, but it's strictly GZdoom, so if you're using a differet source port you're out of luck.

It's also from 2017, so if it even works anymore is unknown.

[honest flower]

I am playing on gzdoom engine but as I said above DamNums doesn't work very well

[safe burrow]

Ah windows dos.....the age of beeps and boops blue screens with yellow wording. boomer feel

[flint crest]

Ah, I completely missed the mention of DamNums lmao.

Outside of that, I haven't seen any mod that shows damage numbers.

[honest flower]

is this directed at me? if you are hinting at obvious solution that you think I missed, please be a bit more clear, I have no idea what did you mean

[safe burrow]

Before I played nothing but Doom on windows DoS. I tried Dick Tracy, and The Rocketeer. I had no idea what I was doing. Think i crashed my fathers computer too lol.

[safe burrow]

No. Just remisicing. Id of tagged you if I did.

[honest flower]

oh, ok

[surreal portal]

how in god's name did you not catch 1.5d being a joke

same for the other person

[thorn jungle]

what even is 1.5d

2d is two dimensions: height and width (correct me if im wrong)

3d is three: x, y, z

[twin mortar]

Sandy once said DOOM is 1.5D, it was clowned on, that is the joke

[thorn jungle]

take everything Sandy says with a grain of salt

[rich anvil]

Okay but fr has there ever been a 1d video game?

[flint crest]

A 1d video game wouldn't be possible, you'd see nothing and be able to do nothing.

[azure nimbus]

1 d chess

[hot owl]

Autism. I genuinely cannot understand a joke unless it's very very clear.

[surreal portal]

i mean i would have thought even taking it seriously would make you realize 1.5d is kinda impossible to make a game out of

[hot owl]

It would just be a line, no? 1D is just width, isn't it? So the term 1.5D doesn't really mean anything, so I presumed that it was genuinely a term.

[rich anvil]

Mancala is 1.5d

[vast reef]

didn't sandy petersen say it was 1.5d lol

[vast reef]

1.5d would be a 1d game presented as 2d

like how wolfenstein is 2.5d

[twin mortar]

Wolfenstein 3D

[lunar rune]

I feel like you got the information wrong, got corrected, tried treating it as a joke, and then tried to teach a lesson like you're a movie character 😭

[lunar rune]

Does Wolfenstein 3D have a Z axis? I thought it used raytracing

[twin mortar]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[twin mortar]

The 1.5D part was definitely a joke

[lunar rune]

That's fair, then they got pressed for genuinely no reason

[vast reef]

they were kind of clearly joking

[marsh whale]

Wolfenstein 3D uses raycasting and has no actual Z axis

[lunar rune]

Raycasting yeah that's what I meant

[lunar rune]

Yeah like I said above that's fair enough, they stretched it very far

[marsh whale]

are you talking about the guy who was blabbering about DOOM and Wolfenstein being 2D?

[vast reef]

everyone be quiet. wolfenstein 3d is 3d and doom is om

[marsh whale]

yes I agree

[vast reef]

quake is ke

even if doom and doom 2 have very similar engines id software actually updated the engine so doom 2 is m 2

but there's valid debate that it's simply 2

[marsh whale]

no it's II

doom is om, doom 2 is m2, doom 64 is 64, doom 3 is m3, doom 2016 is 16, doom eternal is al, doom the dark ages is es.

[azure nimbus]

I don't think wolf3d has any meaningful 3d. I've not played the game much but I don't think height exists outside of visuals

[vast reef]

yeah

[vale gyro]

Yeah. It doesn’t really fall under my definition for a “3D game”, which is any game that has and actively uses a 3rd axis. I might lump it as a 2.5D game, though

At the same time, my definitions aren’t exactly fully accurate to the real definitions

[halcyon willow]

Fun fact, Wolf3d used the same editor as commander keen, they just flipped the play space on its side

[marsh whale]

very fun fact

[steady mica]

anyone wanna play a vanilla doom 2 campaign?

[finite crag]

me

[steady mica]

alr

[pine violet]

https://youtu.be/t_T0IyLPlVs?t=55&feature=shared makes me want to add a hidden room in Phoboe Lab filled with zombies in cells

With spooky markings and maybe the face of the Spider Mastermind and the Bruiser Brothers drawn on the walls in blood perhaps they'll smash the glass and shout "JOIN US!" before attacking you

[versed nymph]

modded coop anyone

[finite crag]

nvm

[onyx shoal]

Doom soilder fight choose your character

[fierce shell]

I'm choosing the chaingunner those things hurt

[pine violet]

Former Commando I chose you (those guys can take you down in seconds)

[onyx shoal]

Yeah they're hell

[fierce shell]

Especially when there's a lot of them and there absolute bullet sponges too