classic-doom

[misty loom]

found it, it was hiding in a room

the mancubi room

[azure nimbus]

lot of space either way

[misty loom]

and done

funny, considering the devs just said this was the 2nd hardest map

i also didnt use the bfg so

and then i die to the chaingunners in the next room because, guess what, you cant dodge hitscan

[dense plinth]

Sigil has the best Spider Mastermind fight imo

just don't play it on UV, Sigil UV is unbalanced and unfair

[tacit remnant]

I wouldn’t go that far. It’s simply quite difficult on UV

[dense plinth]

doesn't feel like you have enough bullets, shells, rockets and cells for the amount of enemies in UV

unless you like, never miss or something

[tacit remnant]

Sure you do. Just be very careful when you take shots and use melee whenever it’s safe to do so

[narrow condor]

Ammo starvation is a valid design choice for difficulty if it's planned fairly.

[tacit remnant]

Exactly. Sigil doesn’t even go as far with that as it could

More than anything else Sigil relies on claustrophobic combat spaces for difficulty

[dense plinth]

I think on Hurt Me Plenty, Sigil just has a Spider Mastermind at the end

on Ultra Violence it throws a Cyberdemon and Mastermind at you at the same time

[tacit remnant]

I haven’t gotten there yet.

[formal monolith]

Run past the Mastermind to make it infight the Cyberdemon

[tacit remnant]

Sounds about right

[vast reef]

this weekend i'll look into the technical details and see if it's possible

if you can hook up a mod to an external program then it theoretically should be

[dusty nexus]

Dai un'occhiata a questa clip! quelnabbodiunbabbo sta trasmettendo DOOM! https://clips.twitch.tv/CourageousSingleStarOhMyDog-ix7fvFPBOQbBhY60

[vast reef]

#doom-2016

[gusty falcon]

Alot of channels lately are doing playing doom for the first time videos

I'm not sure what started the trend but it's beautiful

[dusty nexus]

It' s a great Game. Every time I play I have a lot of Fun.

[gusty falcon]

https://youtu.be/zyadBaJssV4

https://youtu.be/lb0CMDgbuAA
https://youtu.be/VlOUldp_f9I

[ornate vortex]

Is there an easy way of dodging loads of mancubus fireballs at once?

[vast reef]

some maps have specific strats based on the level layout

[ornate vortex]

What if there’s mancubi on each corner

no matter how I seem to move I always get hit somehow

[vast reef]

4 corners of a room?

i'll try coming up with something tomorrow

[ornate vortex]

thanks, ill keep giving the map a go for now

[finite crag]

You gave me inspiration to play Sigil on UV

also i'm going to play Sunder (not the 2009 edition, the one with maps 15-20 added in it) on UV next weekend

[marsh sand]

Alright but I get to pick the fanfic

[finite crag]

first shot: move left, second shot: move right, third shot: move left

if it's on each corner then watch for each and try to repeat the same tactic

[ornate vortex]

I somehow managed to beat the map, but i did it out of luck tbh

But still, 4 mancubi, each corner is really hard to dodge

It is pretty luck based since it does depend on when they want to start their attack frames

If you have 4 at the same time firing, it becomes what I call a japanese bullet hell

[azure nimbus]

If you are circling inside them, prefer going clockwise. If you are on the outside(obvi preferred), go counterclockwise. This way, you are always going to the right of the closest manc. It's the second pair they fire that has the greatest offset. The first one, you're perfectly fine moving right if you have space. But the second, you really want to move right. If you have to be dodging leftward, you'll have to retreat or take an obnoxiously wide arc for that second burst. Also helps to bunch them up so you only have to dodge the one in front but it doesn't seem like that's an option here.

[ornate vortex]

noted

[strange shadow]

I want to start reading doom's source code but idk where to start

[finite crag]

iirc, the original code was written in C

[finite crag]

Sigil is really good

Love the music and maps

[finite crag]

E5M2's cyberdemon has got me

There is a way to kill it pretty easily

But I’m playing on HMP

[finite crag]

telefrag?

Yeah

oh

[tulip estuary]

E5?
I thıught it ended at E4

[pulsar bay]

I thought it ended at 2

[finite crag]

e4m2 has a cyberdemon too

[finite crag]

E5 is Sigil

[tulip estuary]

oh

[finite crag]

Spider mastermind, cyberdemon, 2 barons, cacodemons, and imps

Thanks Romero

Anyways Doom 64 time

[ripe tree]

Hey! New to the server here!

Was wondering if anyone knows what happened to the android ports of Doom and Doom 2.

Also since they're gone, what the next best alternative to play them is.

[silent remnant]

I don't know anything about the Android ports but Doom runs on anything that's even slightly more powerful than a 286. You can get the "official" Unity ports on any modern console for dirt cheap, or if you have a PC get them on Steam or GOG and download your source port of choice.

[ripe tree]

Alright thanks.
Might start with the steam versions.
I already owned the original CDs from 1995, which is why I held up on buying them again on PC.
But since they're usually dirt cheap, I'll probably get the whole thing on Steam.

[finite crag]

if you are buying it on GOG make sure it's the original version and not the BFG edition

because i made that mistake

and BFG edition censores nazi imagery, and replaces the WolfSS with a zombiman, so if i play a wad which has an enemy which replaces the WolfSS, it's a zombieman, unless i play on GZDoom. But i hate using GZDoom.

[silent remnant]

I avoid GZDoom unless a wad specifically calls for it. But yeah I don't think they meant Doom 3, but that's a good point too. I think Doom 3 on Steam comes with both BFG and original versions now if you buy it, but I had them both before they merged the storefront so I can't confirm.

[finite crag]

i think i found a way to download the original version from GOG

everything is 2x more expensive on Steam

[silent remnant]

My interest is piqued. I have BFG on GOG but I don't think I've seen the OG on there.

[finite crag]

It says there is the original and the enhanced

i bought the enhanced and it's the BFG

[silent remnant]

Can you link the store page?

[finite crag]

https://www.gog.com/en/game/doom_1993

stupid vega

[silent remnant]

LUL

[finite crag]

write it in two messages

The bfg edition sucks ass

So many pointless changes that make the game worse

[silent remnant]

The short version, for some reason when the BFG Edition was brought up I thought we were talking about Doom 3. But I knew about the originals. Thanks.

[finite crag]

not doom 3

[silent remnant]

Subjective.

[finite crag]

No my takes are objective

[finite crag]

i found a place where i can download the original, i know it because it says "the (1993) January 23 update"

i'll download it next weekend

I already have the og on steam

But nice

i don't want to buy it again

[silent remnant]

Yeah Doom 1, Doom 2, and Doom 3 all come with the original versions and the updated versions so you only have to buy once, and that's both on Steam and GOG.

[finite crag]

plus, i can't buy it rn

[finite crag]

but where can i find the DOSBOX version?

[silent remnant]

Get it on Steam or GOG and there are options to launch the original (DOS) or Enhanced (Unity) versions.

[finite crag]

okay

[silent remnant]

I think GOG makes it easier, you can just set your default launch option from the game's properties in GOG Galaxy.

[finite crag]

tf is gog galaxy

[silent remnant]

It's like Steam but for GOG

[finite crag]

Don’t like this dude much but Gman is spot on here https://youtu.be/iwLvY7X54SQ

[finite crag]

oh

[silent remnant]

I'll keep my thoughts about Gmanlives to myself.

[finite crag]

Say em

[silent remnant]

I have nothing good to say.

[finite crag]

Based

okay everything good

soon i get to see nazi imagery in doom outside GZDoom

[silent remnant]

Straight up DOSBox? No source port? Now that's based.

[finite crag]

Bruh they even replaced the SS guys

Pansy ass publishers oml

[silent remnant]

Wait...are the Unity ports and the ports included with the BFG Edition of Doom 3 the same?

[finite crag]

nono

PrBoom+

but i may try out DOSBOX

[silent remnant]

I've been on a big 'no source port' kick lately and DOSBox is better than people give it credit for. You just have to configure it correctly. But these days when you buy a DOS game from GOG (or Steam) most of that is already done for you.

[finite crag]

true

I think PrBoom+ and DSDA-doom are the best

[silent remnant]

I've always been partial to Crispy

[finite crag]

Who was the genius dev who decided to remove the music in the intro cinematic

[silent remnant]

wut

[finite crag]

Talking about Doom 3 BFG

The music in the first cutscene was removed for some reason

PrBoom+ if you want to play with high quality texturing, DSDA if you don't want to have a crash while recording

[silent remnant]

oh. It's been so long since I've played either version of Doom 3, I guess I never noticed.

[finite crag]

I want the BFG Edition's author to sit on Judah's Cradle

https://tenor.com/view/troll-pilled-gif-19289988

NO MUZZLE FLASHES

good old startan

C’mon bruh

[finite crag]

what

I’m flabbergasted they made Doom 3’s lighting worse

That’s like the games most impressive aspect

[orchid skiff]

Guys

[finite crag]

+, they embarass the name of the best gun in doom

[orchid skiff]

I need someone who has doom 1993

Ps

[finite crag]

Bfg edition is good for you? lol

The only thing the bfg edition has over the og is the lost missions

Are there any mods that add those in though

[silent remnant]

for what

[silent remnant]

https://www.moddb.com/mods/the-lost-mission

[finite crag]

Based

Ok Doom 3 og is just better

Wish I had my pc

[zinc niche]

I still love Doom for the complex system it had,especially for 1993

Like everytime I think about it, I'm always fascinated

Like the BFG is a great example alone, come to think about it

[ornate vortex]

Doomers, may I present to you, my YUM runs
https://youtu.be/-NM3kcbOFy4

[glossy lagoon]

Beyond the levels where the demons decide they want to turn off the lights, Sigil thus far has been pretty fun!

[vast reef]

use the doom engine black book

really useful

[pale plaza]

same like 21kiloton is spot on on DEternal?

[gentle compass]

UV max runs are cool

[finite crag]

question
idk if this is a good spot but same engine

is it Hexen or HeXen

[tacit remnant]

No idea

[finite crag]

Both. Hexen is the spelling for written conversations. HeXen is the graphical design/box art spelling choice.

i see

ok
thank you

[spice radish]

It is really interesting how the BFG works from a technical standpoint

Still funny we wouldn’t get the first version of what would become the “modern BFG” till Quake II rather then a Doom game lol

[tacit remnant]

Doom 3 BFG is the best version imo

[finite crag]

My favorite is classic doom one

[tacit remnant]

The original version is great too. I just wish it were more apparent to new players how it works

[zinc niche]

I can't send the picture here, but in the comics, the artist did his research, and drew how it actually works correctly

[tacit remnant]

Yup. Kind of anyway. However I think 99% of new players don’t know about the comic

[zinc niche]

Well time to mention it

The Comic (albeit I only have seen snippets) is a better narrative on the story from Doom 1 (I believe), with a few things being used that aren't shown in game. Some being his name, dialogue, and explanations to sprites.

[tacit remnant]

Not really. It basically shows Doom guy navigating a single level trying to get the BFG to kill a cyberdemon with lots of dialogue so cheesy it makes the dialogue in the 60s Batman seem realistic. Also in the comic the BFG is basically treated like a bigger chaingun. When Decino said it portrays the BFG faithfully he wasn’t serious

It is where “RIP AND TEAR” comes from though

[zinc niche]

When it comes to the name of the Doom Guy/Slayer, his name is simply "FLYNNTAGGART" which is also the code used in Doom Eternal in the computer.

What I mean by dialogue, is purely Doom Guy speaking, which is definitely a change from the games, before Eternal.

When it comes to the original BFG-9000 sprite, there's a little handle like thing on the back we don't get to see when holding it, nor was it shown again after Doom 2, but in the comics, it shows to be a stock that rests on top of your shoulder, and the arm of the stock goes down to the gun

[zinc niche]

Ah, I see. And the chaingun part of it- again, you mentioned Decino, but as someone said in the comments of that vid it's basically a plasma shotgun, using 40 energy shots per trigger pull

[tacit remnant]

Yeah I understand how it works but the comic makes it seem like some kind of plasma chaingun

[zinc niche]

Someone on reddit thought it shot bullets

[tacit remnant]

That’s an understandable mistake tbh

[zinc niche]

Tbh, yeah.

Imagine the Doom Slayer or one of the demon in Dead by Daylight 💀

Like a reskin of Nemesis, but it's an Archville

[tacit remnant]

The Slayer as a DBD killer hunting a group of survivors reskinned as demons does sound funny

[zinc niche]

You're a cool person Molly. Hope to talk to ya soon, but for now, I gotta go blow a hole into the surface of mars

[tacit remnant]

Okay

[narrow condor]

Quake 3's BFG is the worst. It's practically the same as the plasma gun but with much higher damage per projectile.

[tacit remnant]

That’s sad

[spice radish]

I know RAGE has a BFG. Does anyone know if it works similar to how it does in Doom?

[tacit remnant]

Probably but idk

[ornate vortex]

YUM is actually such a god send. My movement has become so much better when playing other maps

I think I can submit a UV-Max speedrun on Crumpets Map 4 by tonight

[vast reef]

bit of an overestimate

i'd say ~85%?

or maybe i'm the one overestimating how widespread the doom comic is, since i definitely knew about it before i even played the original doom

[red token]

how do I play classic doom online with my friend?

[vast reef]

zandronum is the easiest to get running

just use tspg to host a server and you're good

[orchid skiff]

Hey guys

I need someone who has doom 1993 on ps

[tacit remnant]

What’s up?

Did you have a particular question you needed answered?

[fringe crane]

Anyone mind answering my question?

It's on #screenshots

[finite crag]

On sunday, i played going down, and got to map31, i had to revive myself in MAP14 because i saved right before my death, but i wanted to load the save

And i didn't want to do MAP14 over again because it's weird

[kindred raven]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgtEHqB0Tuk holy shit this sounds good

[dapper flint]

Still working hard I see

[steel lion]

Who would win? 1 lost soul or a cyberdemon?

[azure nimbus]

I thought 4shock used two: one to distract and one to attack

[finite crag]

Lost soul obviously

[steel lion]

Technically the baron of hell would win

Because he isn't infighting and would kill the player instead

[keen trellis]

hey

I just finished doom 2

what wad do you guys think I should play next?

heretic, hexen or strife?

[silent remnant]

yes.

in that order.

[keen trellis]

lmao

also is hexen a sequel to heretic or is it a totally different game?

[silent remnant]

it's both

it's a sequel but it's a very different style of game.

[keen trellis]

I see

[silent remnant]

Heretic is a straight up FPS, Hexen is more exploration based.

A lot of people don't care for Hexen. It can get unnecessarily complicated.

But it's good if you keep at it.

[finite crag]

To put it simply Hexen is mostly switch puzzles, and key item hunts spread out between maps. It's not bad per say. More that it's not for everyone.

[tepid tulip]

Man the idkfa Doom soundtrack is so good

Even having me enjoy songs I don't normally put up there being high for me

[keen trellis]

That kind of grabs my atention

[finite crag]

Of course, it's an Andrew Hulshult cover album/music mod. So it's got some real bangers.

[keen trellis]

can I directly skip to hexen instead of heretic?

[silent remnant]

you can, yeah.

[finite crag]

The events of Heretic happens before Hexen, but of course as old John Carmack quote applies.

[silent remnant]

you won't really miss anything story-wise. it's a sequel but the story is still pretty light.

[tepid tulip]

Like Dark Halls, Imps Song and Donna to the Rescue aren't Doom songs I listen to the most

They're very great within the game, but man they really popped off on the remixes

[keen trellis]

nice then

kind of tired of linear classic maps

so it would be interesting to play hexen first

[finite crag]

May want to look up the manual for the game. Just to at least help get an understanding how each class differs.

[gentle compass]

I've really enjoyed my Hexen run through, I think the puzzles kinda get a bad reputation

[forest zodiac]

I should note that Heretic later got a proper sequel of its own later on

[dense plinth]

All you miss is killing the first serpent rider

There are 3 of them, and each game (heretic, hexen, hexen 2) has you kill one of them as the final boss

Heretic 2 has nothing to do with the serpent riders (and you can't buy it anymore anyway)

[void copper]

Dude heretic is dope af I wouldn't skip it

Hexen is good too but yea there's a lot of running in circles in a sense. Lots of switches the you hear a door open on the distance now go find it type shit

[formal monolith]

I'd recommend a guide for Hexen

[frigid oar]

Has anyone ever ported doom to the quake engine?

[vale gyro]

I know people have tried to remake some of the classic doom maps in quake

For an actual port, I’m unaware

[frigid oar]

Ah

[formal monolith]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rf9mhc9_MLU

[spice radish]

Glad they brought him on for some of TAGS soundtrack. He did a great job on Dusk and Quake Champions

[vast reef]

modern doom has been remade with slayer's testaments

[orchid skiff]

Yo

Who has premium

[narrow condor]

Doom premium?

[ornate vortex]

Indeed, couldn't pull it off since I underestimated the map

Crumpets map 4 is actually pretty hard to speedrun

[vale gyro]

yea, wtf is premium?

[narrow condor]

With a monthly Doom Premium membership your health and armour can go up to 250/250, and you start with a semi-automatic rifle instead of a pistol.

[vale gyro]

thank god neither id or Bethesda has done something like that for Doom

[forest zodiac]

Want a break from the ads?

[ornate vortex]

When Doom is owned by EA

[kindred raven]

pay 10$ to get the megasphere!

what source ports do you guys use?

[narrow condor]

GZDoom

[ornate vortex]

I was wondering if anyone has a routine into beating hard doom maps single segment

I'm kind of unsure how to practice maps that take pretty long as well as the fact they are very difficult

In my example, this is Rush map 12, it's a huge map, lots of monsters and I don't exactly know where to start

I've watched Ancalagon's demo a couple times, i've tried following the route however there's certain fights that I constantly struggle with

is there a better way of practicing these kind of maps?

[finite crag]

it counts if i beat swtw map02 in a single segment after 70 attempts?

but now i'll try out community chest 2 map24

with saves

[finite crag]

i know i'll have a lot of trouble with it, because B.P.R.D gives you almost no ammo, and my weak point is when a map is scarce on ammo

[ornate vortex]

I suppose that is a pretty hard map

but it's not too long

[narrow condor]

Besides setting saves before every major fight to practise them individually?

That is, practise each fight until you find a working strategy, then line up each strategy back to back in a single run.

[dapper flint]

That's basically how it's done. Although all I do is record the fights now

[ornate vortex]

I might only just practice the fights I have the most trouble with just so it saves time

i might have to play casually for the third time to get these save files plus a rough idea which areas are the hardest

This is pretty much the first map i’ve proceeded to do that’s considered very hard

(and i don’t get much of a break since once i’ve finished crumpets, i’m gonna finish tangerine nightmare. Map 10 is known for having some really cruel fights)

Then it’s no rest for the living, which I consider a somewhat break

[vale gyro]

Mainly Crispy, but I also use Woof when I need to

[kindred raven]

I use prboom+

Crispy doom is good but mod support isnt great from what i remember

[vale gyro]

Woof is just Crispy mixed with PRBoom+

[ornate vortex]

I use DSDA for my gameplay + runs

however i have noticed (with the eternity engine), when I went to run the demos for heartland, they often went out of sync somewhere in the middle

maybe because i’m using a recently updated version it’s out of sync somehow

[dapper flint]

Eternity is a mess I avoid it completely now. Devs never update it plus only has option for opengl so runs for shit because I'm using amd

[grand bramble]

Hello! Anyone have the original DOOM sky1,2,3 sky box images?

[narrow condor]

Why not extract them by hand from the iwad?

[vale gyro]

ModDB has it

I haven’t visited it in a while, but it’s somewhere within files I think

Of Brutal Doom

[finite crag]

The version on ModDB is outdated as it requires an old build of Brutal Doom to work, and may not work on newer builds of GZDoom. Also already sent 'em a link to the current version in DMs.

[vale gyro]

Oh really?

Never knew that

To be fair, I’ve never used Project Brutality

And have not used GZDoom in about a year

[sturdy laurel]

@solid vapor Sent you a DM.

[vast reef]

they were already DM'd

[tacit remnant]

I’d love for the official port to receive some wads from Skillsaw or Josh Sealy.

Or Cyriak

[forest zodiac]

Scythe please

[finite crag]

DSDA is the same as PrBoom-plus (prboom has the extended hud as well) but it doesn't have the high quality resize option and the textures in the distance are pixelated

so DSDA is the same as PrBoom but uglier

[remote cedar]

Hey guys, what would you say is the best way to play classic Doom? I'm definitely buying the Steam releases, but are they the best way to play?

[finite crag]

okay so if you're going for a more vanilla way, chocolate doom and crispy doom are the go-to

there's more modern source ports that have mod support such as ZDoom (a bit outdated) and GZDoom

there's also PrBoom which is also commonly used, it has some fancy enhancements, but still keeps the vanilla feel of the game

[azure nimbus]

DSDA for vanilla, boom, or mbf11/mbf21 wads. Eternity for Heartland, and gz for those gz specific mods. If you're interested in multiplayer, there are options like odemex but I don't play enough mp to really prescribe anything. There is no real reason to use prboom or chocolate or crispy. DSDA offers as much and more features as they do. You'd right click on the steam game, manage files or browse files I forget. Whatever the case, you're basically putting doom2.wad into one of these other ports. The only reason to play on steam or console is for the achievements

[remote cedar]

Alright, I'll check those out when I actually get my hands on Classic Doom games, thank you for your answers!

I wasn't sure whether or not to stick with Zandronum since I don't know better, being a Mega Man 8-bit Deathmatch player. But I hear left and right that it uses a lot of deprecated stuff and I want my Doom experience to be as fresh as possible.

[dapper flint]

If you want an updated experience then gz is the way to go

[finite crag]

DSDA offers one extra feature: Rewind. Other than that, it's the same as prboom+, so it doesn't matter which you prefer to use. And in DSDA, there is no high quality resize option.

[ornate vortex]

I’m only playing on eternity for heartland

autocorrected me to eviternity 💀

but every demo i play just desyncs

so now i’m having to rely on myself instead of relying on fuGue for getting past the first couple maps

[azure nimbus]

prboom does not have mbf21 support for one thing which is a major difference

dsda has a strict mode which is helpful for speedrunning too.

[finite crag]

Heartland was actually one of the earliest megawad i have ever played

i tried it on GzDoom xd

and i didn't know why i was stuck

[azure nimbus]

newer dsda versions even have full controller support.

[ornate vortex]

It's a brilliant wad

[finite crag]

i didn't knew that it was for Eternity, and i got stuck in the first area of map01

and i never played it again

[loud garnet]

hey guys

whats up

[silent remnant]

nadda.

how you doin

[dapper flint]

Ya that's not going to turn out well do to some pretty neat vertically tricks only available with eternity

[ornate vortex]

I'm planning on doing a uv commentary of it soon, but I think that's gonna happen after tangerine nightmare

since I need to upload rush 2 maps 01-06 (which I already have completed)

[forest zodiac]

also DSDA-Doom doesn't have horrendous input lag on my end

unlike PrBoom+

[finite crag]

Just wish that both PrBoom+ & DSDA-Doom allowed the ability to use the mouse in the option menus. Just as a faster QOL improvement to make changing settings faster.

[finite crag]

i don't have lag

with prboom

[ornate vortex]

Does anyone know how to work WhackEd?

[vale gyro]

well, I know how to open the program and edit a thing or two

I'm no where near skilled with it

[kindred raven]

prboom+ is one of the best ports for that as in there isnt much for me atleast

[wise notch]

Ok i cannot send a screenshot but what is the reason for doombuilder to be saying "W_AddFile: couldn't open (my location for Prboom+)/.wad"?

i can't test the map

btw i downloaded doombuilder like 10 minutes ago too

only gzdoom works

[kindred raven]

huh

what doom builder is it

[wise notch]

2

[remote cedar]

2 is starting to get old
I recommend installing GZDoom Builder instead

[kindred raven]

or ultimate doom builder

[wise notch]

hm

[finite crag]

favorite sourceport?

Depends on the wad requirements. At least for me.

I usually use gzdoom for modding and crispy doom for vanilla

Vanilla play PrBoom+, or DSDA-Doom. All others I'll use Q-Zandronum, GZDoom, or fall back to ZDoom, or Zandronum. Just depends on the zscript requirements.

ZDoom still works with a surprising amount of mods

I remember having to run ZDoom instead of GZDoom because it wouldn't run back when I had a terrible computer lol

Lot of the older mods tend to run best on ZDoom as that was what they where made for.

Oh, and LZDoom is another fall back for when GZDoom can't run something properly. As LZDoom is lighter on the resource requirements.

GZDoom is so bloated

Can't even run on a core 2 duo

It's limited to single thread CPU usage for some reason. Thus massive performance issues. Adding mods that focus on the CPU makes it worse.

Wack

Hopefully they do an optimization update soon

Only bypass is for mods to start moving things to 3D models instead of sprites. Lowers CPU need, and moves the usage to pure GPU.

Ah I see that's how they get those crazy tc mods running

At least in terms of cosmetics like trees, foliage, ect.

Yeah perfect example is Total Chaos. Very GPU heavy, but light on the CPU.

I remember the first time I tried that mod I typed idkfa and I was shocked to see the doom 2 ssg

That can happen in some mods. Get vanilla doom weapons instead of the mod replacements.

[finite crag]

PrBoom+ and DSDA-doom for recording

Do you speedrun?

[finite crag]

no

[ornate vortex]

idk if it's even possible to make a second enemy that resurrects monsters, because I was pretty much hoping to make a mini arch vile but instead of it zapping the player, it fires a huge volley of mancubus fireballs

[craggy bone]

I don't know anything about custom scripting, but it's definitely possible. Sunlust, for example, uses custom monsters based on archviles to resurrect corpses in the final map.

[narrow condor]

It's definitely possible.

I think the only monster properties you can't change are

1. Killing mancubi and arachnotrons in MAP07 to trigger 666-667
2. Killing the boss monsters in the Doom iwad in the respective levels to end the map (or killing Romero head in any map in the Doom 2 iwad)
3. Splash damage resistance

You can replace the existing monsters to take over those properties though.

[ornate vortex]

I'd have to use some of the hitscan sprites for my custom enemy's sprites since I don't think i'll be using hitscanners for the entire map

or I could have the monster replace commander keen

[dense plinth]

gzdoom tbh

it's got everything I need really with mod support

and I can make it look close to chocolate Doom if I want the classic aesthetic

of course it's not the same, even if you set the compatibility to Doom strict but it's close enough for my liking

[finite crag]

should I get vanilla doom on steam or where should i get it?

[dense plinth]

steam gives you the dosbox and unity versions of the game

so I'd say yeah

[finite crag]

alr ty so much

[dense plinth]

the unity version is a pretty good way to play the game if you don't wanna mess around with source ports

[remote cedar]

Oh wait Steam has the Unity version?

I didn't know that

I've only recently heard about the Unity versions of Doom and I've heard they were pretty good

[dense plinth]

yeah Doom and Doom II got updated with them a while back

they're a lot more accessible for casual players than the dosbox version or having to install a source port

a lot of people don't want to bother with that, they just wanna install and play

[remote cedar]

I might try the Unity versions then

hopefully they have OpenGL support for stuff like dynamic lighting, I've seen it in some videos and it looked pretty cool

[azure nimbus]

it is. Sunlust does it. It has regular viles but also has dehacked keens that are programmed to essentially be viles with no kill percentage. That's how the map30 ressurection fights work Also, @narrow condor remember Sigil. Sigil's compat version is an e3 replacement (because secret level behavior is hard coded. the exit from a secret level in e3 will always take you to map 7). The final map of sigil has a spiderdemon but it does not end the level like it did in vanilla's e3m8. So killing boss monsters is not something that is hard coded.

[narrow condor]

Oh yeah, that's a good point.

I wonder how that's done.

[azure nimbus]

I think he just removed bossdeath behavior but I'm not sure

[narrow condor]

Hm, so that means I still can't just give the same attribute to a zombieman (short of replacing the boss with it).

[azure nimbus]

"unity" is the version that you get just be clicking play after buying the steam version. Technically, it is a source port, being not dos/dosbox. The only reason to play that version is that it's easy to click play and there are achievements(least on xbox. idk about steam).

But if you're ok to manage a zip file, I highly recommend right clicking the game to browse game files, pull the doom2.wad file, and put that in a fanmade source port like dsda. It is both more faithful to the original game while also providing more QoL features and supporting advanced maps. Dynamic lighting is supported very small part for boom, in more realistic manner for mbf which are emulated in dsda.

[remote cedar]

yeah don't worry I don't mind moving stuff around in zips and all that. I'll still think about the source ports when I actually get the Steam releases for map packs and such.

[narrow condor]

I think No Rest for the Living is the only one you can't get off /idgames anyway.

[remote cedar]

Do I get No Rest for the Living with Doom II on Steam?

(can I at least have the option to download it)

I'm aware it used to be an XBox exclusive way back then, I just want to know if that ever changed

[narrow condor]

Yeah, it's on the addons menu.

But you need to create a Bethesda account to access that menu, I believe.

[remote cedar]

Small price to pay, no offense to Bethesda

[narrow condor]

I downloaded the game, made an account and logged in, installed the addon, copied off NERVE.WAD and uninstalled the game.

[remote cedar]

Damn, that much? Why?

[narrow condor]

Well, it's just that I'm too comfortable with my current GZDoom setup to switch to something else.

It's not like I hate the Unity port in particular or anything.

[tepid tulip]

After many times figuring out where the secrets are in TNTs Wormhole for weeks

I finally 100% that map

[narrow condor]

Congrats!

[tepid tulip]

I could never reach beyond 60% kills and barely could find secrets

It's a pretty weird maps in terms of secrets but I'm glad I did it

Not that I planned to 100% it, but I'm proud that I did

[dapper flint]

It's fun to play when I'm just chilling in the living room. I still do time to time

[ornate vortex]

I haven't played unity port in a year

The last time I did was when I was trying to deathless uv max Doom II on switch

Playing with controller is way harder than mouse and keyboard

[dapper flint]

I can't use kbm to save my life. Absolutely hate it

[silent remnant]

it takes some getting used to

[finite crag]

Play some aimlab

KBM is better than controller for Doom

Imo

First person shooters in general

[dapper flint]

Nah I've been using controller all my life. I'm extremely good at it. I physically can't use kbm do to a injury to my hands at a young age

[finite crag]

Ah that sucks

[finite crag]

well fuck

[dapper flint]

Its fine. Works out well as a gimmick for my channel plus I do maps wads and fights 90 percent of kbm players can't do. Kinda pride myself on that

[finite crag]

wow

[azure nimbus]

I play controller too. One of the reasons why I like dsda

[dapper flint]

Dsda nailed it. Feels really good

[azure nimbus]

we finally agree on a port

[dapper flint]

I still don't know how to fix projectiles though.

[ornate vortex]

I personally think DSDA is the best sourceport too, but for different reasons

i'm a speedrunner so of course I would prefer a sourceport that's based entirely off speedrunning ergonomics

[blazing onyx]

Fun fact:

||December 10th this year is Doom 1’s 30th anniversary||

[kindred raven]

Decino is the only good doom tuber

well big one at least

[ornate vortex]

Does anyone have some cool recommendations as to some cool maps to speedrun (talking about pwads). I’m kinda just curious at this point

[zenith berry]

Coincident, MtPain27, GamingGargoyle…

[ornate vortex]

You also forgot Br0leg

[kindred raven]

big

ie 100k+

[zenith berry]

Yeah but they also deserve more attention!

[kindred raven]

true

[narrow condor]

Are there really that many Doomtubers with >100k subscribers?

[dapper flint]

Nope

Even zero master only has 68 k lol

[formal monolith]

Classic Doom content is more niche

[steel lion]

Today I noticed that the cyberdemon eyes are on the side of his face

I always thought that his were in his forehead,and he just was angry

[narrow condor]

It makes sense since he's goat-shaped (because of the way Baphomet is depicted) but it also implies that he's a herbivore, as predators have eyes in front of their skulls to focus on their prey and prey animals have eyes on the sides of their skulls to watch for potential attacks.

[formal monolith]

Yeah that was the issue with the design of the Cyberdemon in later games, his eyes were a little too front facing

[tacit remnant]

On the other hand using a rocket launcher without binocular vision against moving targets sounds pretty difficult so front facing eyes make more sense on that front

Side note: don’t underestimate herbivores. A predator will only hunt you if it decides it’s worth the calories, but a prey animal will assume you are a predator and likely choose violence on sight

[narrow condor]

It's also the case that most herbivores don't have rocket launchers for arms.

[lyric umbra]

fireblu best texture

[tacit remnant]

That is true. Herbivores rely on trampling and impaling people instead. The big ones do anyway

[lyric umbra]

are you implying that the little ones have rocket launchers

im not gonna be looking at cows the same ever again

[dapper flint]

Might have been before being corrupted

[formal monolith]

https://i.imgur.com/Csvtp8s.png

The Harbinger of Doom from Wolfenstein RPG was an interesting idea

[finite crag]

un-cybers your demon

[dapper flint]

Looks like he has his belly button peirced

[vale gyro]

bro missing his eyes

[tacit remnant]

I assume the data compression just messed them up

[lyric umbra]

that looks sick

[hexed escarp]

do you guys think that sigil 2 will be called sigil 2 or will it be called smthn else

[tacit remnant]

Probably Sigil 2, especially now that it’s apparently being made as a Doom 1 PWAD

[tacit remnant]

I think it’d be fun to have a Dehacked marauder who moves around like Doomguy with a super shotgun up close and axe projectile at a distance. No shield, just speed

[finite crag]

for some reason i thought tfc was much harder

probably cause of the first map

[tacit remnant]

The first 2 are pretty nasty

[finite crag]

yeah

i mean you can do blue key skip in e4m2 at least

and entire map skip in e4m3

and i totally played through every map without exploits and did not whatsoever use skips of any kind

oh and no secret level

only one i'd do is like e2m9 cause you get tons of stuff from it

and it's short

[spice radish]

This makes me very uncomfortable

[spice radish]

People talk a lot about Perfect Hatred (deserved) but Hell Beneath is still really unforgiving. It’s still one of the cruelest levels in a video game I’ve ever played

[tacit remnant]

I remember the hardest for me personally was a tie between E4M2 and E4M6

[finite crag]

only decino

[finite crag]

e4m1 & e4m2 & e4m6 kick your ass hard, E4M3-E4M5 are average in my opinion, and the last 2 maps are the 2 best in my opinion

[ornate vortex]

Just wait till you've played Sunlust map 29

a lot of that map is complete bullshit

[tacit remnant]

Sunlust in general is crazy

[thin needle]

Didn't you guys ever tried playing doom on android?

I did

[finite crag]

i just wait till i've played sunder map16

I'll start playing the MAP01-20 plus MAP31-32 release of sunder on Friday

[hexed escarp]

Unfortunately with dehacked you can’t detect distance from the player

[azure nimbus]

the revenant kinda does this. He won't attack at closish range but will at longer range. Up real close, he'll melee. So there is some variance of behavior. Maybe melee range could be modified to be longer?

[hexed escarp]

Yeah but that behavior is hardcoded, basically when you call the revanent attack it checks if you are far or close and then either does a punch or a fireball

Ig you could edit the fireball to be an axe but can’t edit the punch attack at all

Actually hold on wait

Yoooooo mbf21 has a proximity check function

So you could totally do it there

If someone made sprites for it id do the dehacked

You would need walking animation, axe attack animation, ,ssg attack animation, pain animation, and death animation

[vast reef]

isn't that only decino if we're talking classic doom

the only other doomtubers that have over 100 thousand subscribers are modern doom youtubers like utm and midnight

well, midnight has some modded classic doom videos on his channel too

[dapper flint]

Decino is great. Really nice dude too. Generally speaking though I believe his subs don't sub to other content like his because no one has his voice. Sounds weird but that's it lol

[vast reef]

decino's voice is therapeutic

honestly i love borogk and bigmacdavis's voices too

[dapper flint]

Bigmac is great!

[kindred raven]

truly

i mean i swear most of these classic doomtubers are European

[finite crag]

Save game

Lol

Also are we talking about classic doom tubers

They're all so calm
Easy to listen to

[glossy lagoon]

I've grown to really hate Unspeakable Persecution recently.

Especially on Hard Mode, where a random Cyberdemon is placed in the middle of the maze to really punish you for wanting to move about there.

The fact that the first half of the level is greatly marred by a part where you effectively have to fight four Cacodemons without being able to see anything is annoying as well.

[dapper flint]

You can actually cheese this cyber if you'd like to

[glossy lagoon]

How?

I can't really see any route to telefragging them like you can in Abbadon's Void.

[azure nimbus]

maybe bait them onto the teleporter in the corner?

[dapper flint]

One second I'll post it

https://youtube.com/shorts/QfRFLqm5l7Y?feature=share

Bait him to the stairs. This is fast monsters but I think on normal speed he's still not able to make it up to that part of the stairs

[tacit remnant]

How does that work?

[dapper flint]

No idea. I'm guessing the projectiles are blocked by the candle

[tacit remnant]

That kinda makes sense but is also hilariously absurd. Very classic Doom jank

[dapper flint]

Nothing like cheesing a cyber

[tacit remnant]

Time for episode 666 of our ongoing series “Humiliating the Cyberdemon”

[dapper flint]

I actually cheesed every single cyber In that run. Like not one did I actually fight

[tacit remnant]

I suspect that’s an intended part of the episode design

[random tartan]

https://youtu.be/u5kjih56qpk

banger

[remote hare]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEeD3xnCWNk

[hexed escarp]

is sigil fun to speedrun?

[finite crag]

the discord file limit is large enough to send the doom iwads now

just sayin not condoning piracy or anything

[rich nimbus]

So what's the official name (at the time) for the Barons of Hell? Is it Baron of Hell, or Bruiser Brother?

[remote cedar]

What

Where does Bruiser Brother come from

[rich nimbus]

It's the ID name for the entity

Because Shooters were called Former Humans in DOOM 1993. Then called Zombieman in DOOM 64

Or like how Pinkies were called Demons. Just wondering if something like that happened for the Baron of Hell.

Because I don't think they were mentioned in the DOOM 1993 manual, because of the boss fight at the end of episode one (like how the cyberdemon wasn't mentioned).

[remote cedar]

I think we get the official name from the Doom 2 credits

When you finish Doom 2 you get to a screen that shows each enemy in the game and their death animation

iirc Barons of Hell and Pinkies are called that

and these names stuck for future games

[rich nimbus]

Ah ok, thanks man!

Yeah, they're called Baron of Hell

[azure nimbus]

Baron of Hell. People usually only say "Bruiser Brother" in regards to the two in e1m8(I think Sandy still calls them bruisers)

[hexed escarp]

the original name for them in development was bruisers so they called the two that you fight in e1m8 the bruiser brothers but then they changed the name

[remote cedar]

Yeah makes sense

[glossy lagoon]

That works (although I had to change it slightly to adapt for my low cell power), thanks!

[tacit remnant]

I got the cyber cheese to work on the 3rd or 4th try. Thanks for the help

[dapper flint]

No worries !

Glad both of you enjoyed your cheese experience

[hexed escarp]

i wish andrew hulshult would do the rest of the doom 2 tracks

so we can have idkfa for doom 2, that would be so awesome

the first one was so epic

[green yarrow]

[vast reef]

does that mean mancubi are called fatsos then

because honestly that'd be really funny

[rich nimbus]

I guess it depends who you ask.

[narrow condor]

If we're going by the names in the source code, pinkies should be called sergeants.

[azure nimbus]

thought shotgunners had that name in the code

[rose wing]

https://tenor.com/view/doom-doot-doot-skeleton-trumpet-e1m1-gif-25528371

[azure nimbus]

at least in doombuilder, they're former sergeants. PInky's are "demons" in that program

[narrow condor]

The pinkies were originally supposed to be 'demon sergeants' (according to the Doom Bible) but that seems to have been scrapped everywhere outside the source code.

So the entity names for pinkies and sergeants (shotgunners) are MT_SERGEANT and MT_SHOTGUY respectively.

[tacit remnant]

Instead they’re canonically wild animals

[narrow condor]

I choose to believe they're intelligent and act this way on purpose.

[vast reef]

that's a cool idea ngl

[finite crag]

Pinky is the best name

[dapper flint]

Absolutely.

[finite crag]

played some master levels

they're not so bad actually

[vale mural]

What’s classic doom like

I’m gonna buy franchise pack

[rich nimbus]

The first two episodes kinda require little to no brain power.

See bad guy? Yes? Blast 'em.

At the beginning of episode 3 it gets to the point I had to actually think.

[finite crag]

Classic doom is best doom

[lyric umbra]

fireblu is the best texture

[finite crag]

No way is that the real FIREBLU from doom

That gives me an idea of a name for here

Ahhh I see

Doesn't work here
Sad

[lyric umbra]

yes it is me

real

[finite crag]

No way

[random tartan]

In terms of importance in game history, yes

But I think eternal is more if a "mainstream" game

[ornate vortex]

Been listening to the soundtrack for ancient aliens and maybe that's a sign I should try it out

(it's really good)

[narrow condor]

I'm playing PRCP2 and it's quite fun. I especially liked MAP07 so far.

[ornate vortex]

I haven't ever played ancient aliens tbh

but it's by Skillsaw (who is one of my favourite mappers) so i might give it a go

[narrow condor]

I can attest that AA is really good. It sags at a few maps but it's overall very enjoyable.

[vast reef]

so?

more mainstream doesn't mean better at all

classic doom's main strengths are its sheer depth with simple mechanics, the flexibility those mechanics lead to, and enough community content to last you a lifetime

[hot shoal]

@vast reef especially the ability to shoot enemies above or below you. XD

[random tartan]

No, but more accessible for most people

[ornate vortex]

🤨

20megabytes vs 100gigabytes

[random tartan]

No, in terms of graphics and the fact that in the version you can't even look down/up

[ornate vortex]

that’s just due to limitations, doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s more accessible

i get what you’re trying to say, eternal is more visually impressive, but you also have to remember that eternal was made nearly 30 years after classic doom was released

[coarse cradle]

Imo doom 1 is more simple hence you could also say its more "accessible"

[narrow condor]

Chess doesn't have the "graphics" of, say, Settlers of Catan or Ticket to Ride, and its mechanics are much simpler in comparison, but it doesn't mean it's less accessible.

[finite crag]

i think you can send any of the wads except for valiant and stuff because they have a lot of changes

[hexed escarp]

Lmao board game graphics

[hexed escarp]

Eviternity is really big as well bc of otex

[finite crag]

oh yeah Eviternity

[hexed escarp]

It's like 120mb

Or smthn ridiculous like that

[finite crag]

i thought 30 or smth

[finite crag]

valiant is 94mb

i checked

not much less

[hexed escarp]

The 120 is eviternity

[finite crag]

i know

[hexed escarp]

Ah

The majority of it is just otex lol

[finite crag]

i may use it for my future wads

the second or fourth

[finite crag]

and because of MAP26

[hexed escarp]

Actually map data is far more compact than textures, even for huge maps

[finite crag]

so like sunder map16 is not as big as 25 or 30mb?

or map19

[hexed escarp]

Well sunder uses a ridiculous number of lines per map

So maybe idk

[finite crag]

i don't know how much time insane_gazebo puts in his maps but if i'll have to do like his map15 or 16 or 19, it would take half a year or more

[vast reef]

how
classic doom is WAY cheaper, runs on the most dogshit of computers, and has a super customizable user experience due to the sheer amount of ports

[vast reef]

you can't even have enemies below or above you in the first place...

• if you wanna look up and down, use gzdoom

[ornate vortex]

or just get good

[vast reef]

lmao yea

[ornate vortex]

I would know how to deal with monsters below you that you can’t see, since I used a technique to get rid of them on rush map 5

if you use a rocket launcher on a wall or pillar, the splash damage will just kill them about 80% of the time

[vast reef]

was about to say this

if you know their initial positions, you can also kind of just shoot blindly at their general direction

splash damage works so much better though

[ornate vortex]

speaking of rush i seriously need to beat map 12 at some point

[vale mural]

Why is classic easy until level 3? And what are the levels?

[finite crag]

Do you mean with splash damage? Because you can't have enemies above or below you, because they have infinite height, and doom doesn't support room over room, except if you play on the Eternity engine

[ornate vortex]

That's due to some linedef teleporting magic that's very hard to understand

[finite crag]

silent teleporters maybe

or idk

[azure nimbus]

Enemies can be above or below you. All entities have both a z coordinate and a height. walls or floors also have z coordinates. Just because you can't have room over room(rooms sharing (x,y) coords but not z, or monster over monster, doesn't mean that there is no z coordinate.

[hexed escarp]

But enemy hitboxes are infinitely tall

They can't be above or below you unless you are playing zdoom

[azure nimbus]

Their hitboxes for damage are finitely tall. It's just that monsters can't be above or below them

There are limits to doom's third dimension for sure, but he was objecting to the idea that you can shoot enemies above you which was implemented as early as e1m1

[random tartan]

True

[hexed escarp]

Ah I see

[azure nimbus]

Obviously, there is a spectrum for what is 3d: conceivably an otherwise 2d game with a binary 1st/second floor system is 3d in a sense, but whatever your dividing line is, doom ought to be on the 3d side.

[hexed escarp]

Sigil 2 is releasing on the 30th anniversary

[hexed escarp]

That was meant to be a question

I forgot to put ?

[narrow condor]

You can successfully shoot a monster behind and above a monster that's closer to you if they're both too far away for the autoaim to kick in (as long as the one behind is straight ahead).

(This doesn't only apply to projectiles — your pistol, shotgun, SSG and chaingun have a range of 2048 units, whereas autoaim stops working past 1024 units.)

[dapper flint]

Sin

[hexed escarp]

I hope Jimmy does midis for sigil 2

That would be awesome

[finite crag]

i'll try to beat doom 2 map30 in tyson

the icon spawned an archvile but there were so many demons i couldn't do it

[hexed escarp]

Wakt but that's impossible

How do you damage the ios

[finite crag]

it's actually pretty simple

you have to wait for the ios to spawn an arch-vile

then ride up the lift

wait for the archvile to boost you to the icon's brain

and there you can pistol it to death

you just need to face towards the brain when you're standing on it after the archvile jump, there you can pistol the romero's head

[calm nest]

Any tips for E1M8 Nightmare! run?

I do have infinite respawns but the pinkies always block me from going out into the open + can’t kill both barons together so they respawn.

[dapper flint]

The infinite respawns with co op usually is a bad thing. It can mess up most runs because of things you pick up enemy's spawned in already. Usually better to just restart

[calm nest]

That’s my issue hahah, it feels like pure RNG. I need to beat all levels in co-op nightmare for an achievement and this has been a big roadblock for now.

[hexed escarp]

Oh you are doing it with free look?

That doesn't count

[finite crag]

no

[dapper flint]

Ya i did that achievement back in the day its a hell of a ride. What I suggest is playing the map ( if on console uv plus) this will make it fast monsters without co op placement because there isn't any in doom 1.. learn the routes the map and how to get to a to b the fastest. Don't try to kill anything unless it's blocking your path or causing issues ... nightmare is basically speed running. You should know the map by heart

[hexed escarp]

Then you can't pistol the brain

[finite crag]

i send you a video

[hexed escarp]

Bc it's below the gap

The only way is to use rockets

Bc they do splash damage

[finite crag]

the texture above the brain isn't solid

[hexed escarp]

There is a gap but it's very tiny

Unless you can get inside the brain, you can't pistol it

[finite crag]

type this in yt: Doom II Hell on Earth Map30 Tyson in 1m30s by Looper

@hexed escarp

[hexed escarp]

Wait if that's possible why does the pacifist strategy have to be so complicated

Can't they just have a zombie man shoot inside?

Oh wait, are you auto aiming down at the brain?

[finite crag]

yes

[hexed escarp]

I see

That makes sense

[finite crag]

the head is just in your auto-aiming range in below so you can kill it with the pistol

[finite crag]

no because if the arch-vile blasts the zombieman it dies immediately

[finite crag]

if you want to do it pacifist, you have to wait for the icon to spawn 6-15 archviles, and the chance is incredibly low, plus, if you pull of the archvile death jump to the brain while the archviles kill the icon with the blast damage, it would still be TAS

[hexed escarp]

Yeah ik about that, that's why I was confused

[narrow condor]

Is it still Tyson if you're using a pistol?

[dapper flint]

Yes

[narrow condor]

Huh. I thought it meant fists only.

[dapper flint]

Nope pistol is okay

[ornate vortex]

there's also the grandmaster tyson category, but it's rarely ever done

that's basically tyson but with fast monsters enabled

[ornate vortex]

I managed to pick out a midi that fits the map i'm currently making

for context, I was going to make a single map wad called Skinwalker.
The whole scenery was going to be some sort of fortress that's overgrown in flesh. It was going to have some fairly gimmicky fights throughout the map but then end on a ball buster.

That's kinda why I asked a question about custom enemies a couple days ago, I was hoping on making a mini arch vile (out of a reskinned hellion) that has about 400 health, fires lots of mancubus fireballs and resurrects enemies. Those were going to be "skinwalkers"

I chose the midi being a rendition of "Banshee Boardwalk" from Mario Kart 64, but I have a feeling it might be too manic and potentially annoying if you're gonna be listening to it for about 15 minutes

[finite crag]

make it hard

[ornate vortex]

There will be 5 “main” fights. The warmup fight, the red key fight, the burgundy key fight, the black key fight and the final fight

I suppose all of them are somewhat difficult, but the final fight will be something

i have an idea in mind, but it’s just cruel

so i’m most likely going to do that anyways

[finite crag]

burgundy?

[ornate vortex]

it's a darker shade of red

[finite crag]

oh

[ornate vortex]

I did the planning for it and I estimate the monster count will be something like 300

[finite crag]

300? CASUAL

in my wad, map01 has 425 enemies

[ornate vortex]

Yes but there's one thing

[finite crag]

But the layout does matter though

[ornate vortex]

there was one map I made in a community project with 32 monsters

the map was short but the fight was very hard

[finite crag]

Yeah, everything matters

[ornate vortex]

It was a tight arena where there were a bunch of pillars, 4 arch viles and 4 revenants along with 2 mancubi and a cyberdemon

The idea was that you could get all the monsters to infight with the cyber by waking it up and letting it fire as you moved across the arena

lots of people still found it really difficult

[hexed escarp]

What ports are you targeting? If you are using dehacked I could do the dehacked stuff for you if you can make the sprites

[ornate vortex]

port wise, something like Prboom+ since the wad is comp 9

[finite crag]

In my map01, the first half is a wide open playground, with 150 monsters, the second half is a building and there is a office section, which has the rest of the monsters

[hexed escarp]

Yeah I could help with that

It could replace the ss

[ornate vortex]

Then i went to test it, and I somehow beat the map first try

[hexed escarp]

Do you know what sprites it would use?

[finite crag]

map02 is a cramped cave system which has 321 enemies

[ornate vortex]

I'm not exactly familiar with dehacked, but I can list roughly what sprites it will use

[finite crag]

map03 is just started, but it'll be a lava flooded wooden fortress with roasting corpses

[ornate vortex]

I'm kinda unsure how it'll work since it's gotta have enough sprites to have a primary attack (which is to fire a large volley of mancubus fireballs) as well as have some sprites reserved for resurrecting enemies

It's possible, but it sounds tough

[finite crag]

how do you do the secondary attack, like revenant fireballs after mancubus fireballs

[ornate vortex]

oh, it's secondary is the arch vile resurrection

[finite crag]

doesn't matter, the thing is how to do the secondary attack

[ornate vortex]

well, it's definitely possible

sunlust map 30 manage to use keen sprites in order to resurrect dead enemies through dehacked

[finite crag]

have you tried Sunder?

[ornate vortex]

I believe there's a unique enemy in late sunder too

[finite crag]

there is a bee queen from MAP14 or smth

[ornate vortex]

the hive mother's attack is a similar attack i was hoping for with the "skinwalker"

but what's unique with the hive mother is that it has an attack for when it goes into it's pain state

it fires 3 cyberdemon rockets

[finite crag]

But, have you played sunder?

[ornate vortex]

I'm not really wanting that for the skinwalker tho, otherwise it'll just make it far too powerful

yes, I have through maps 01-20

[finite crag]

how was map16 and 19?

[ornate vortex]

I was maybe thinking it could replace commander keen, but ss could work as well

[ornate vortex]

very tough

map19 wasn't so bad to begin with I thought, but it got much harder

[finite crag]

and map16?

[ornate vortex]

I suck at platforming

[finite crag]

i heard that map16 and 19 are the mamas of Sunder

insane_gazebo's voice is like the darth vader is talking with sore throat

[hexed escarp]

Yeah either works

[upper crypt]

Does anyone know if Final Doom is available on PS4/PS5?

[ornate vortex]

The bethesda version probably is

[hexed escarp]

When I can get home in a few minutes I can let you know specifically what sprites it needs and how many

[upper crypt]

And how can I get that version

[ornate vortex]

I believe it's a resource that comes free when buying doom II

[upper crypt]

Alright thanks

[hexed escarp]

Go into the addon menu

And select Plutonia or tnt

Whichever you want to play

[upper crypt]

The reason why I didn’t have Doom 1 or Doom 2 was because I can play those on Doom Eternal

[ornate vortex]

Thanks a bunch!

[hexed escarp]

Np

I can do the dehacked but I'm garbage at sprites so I can't help with that

[vale gyro]

And because of that, you are limited in your options of pwads even more than you are with the Unity source ports

[ornate vortex]

I can sort out the sprites for the custom enemy

Tbh i've not really changed much from the original sprite it's derived from (Hellion)

[hexed escarp]

ok @ornate vortex bad news

unfortunately, the way that the archvile resurrect code works is that the state that it jumps to when it resurrects something is hardcoded

which means that whenever this custom enemy resurrects something, it would temporarily visually turn into an archvile until it attacks you again

one thing that does let you get around this tho is that mbf21 adds a resurrect function that is not hardcoded so it could use that but then that would mean your map would be complevel 21 instead of 9

[finite crag]

so glad that mbf exists

[hexed escarp]

that would restrict the compatible ports to this:
DelphiDoom
Doom Retro
DSDA-Doom (Version 0.19.0 from May 30, 2021 was the first port to officially implement the standard)
Eternity Engine
From Doom With Love
GZDoom (Version 4.7.0 from September 22, 2021 introduced support)
Nugget Doom
Odamex (Version 10.0.0 from February 13, 2022 introduced support)
ReBoom Experimental
Woof!

dsda-doom is very similar to prboom-plus

[ornate vortex]

I suppose that's not so bad

[finite crag]

but more pixelated lol

[hexed escarp]

??? they support the same resolution

[finite crag]

the majority of people use GZDoom or some kind of DSDA

[ornate vortex]

comp21 isn't a drastic change from comp9

[finite crag]

it doesn't have the high quality resize option like prboom+

[hexed escarp]

yes it does

[finite crag]

it doesn't have it in the cfg

[hexed escarp]

its a fork of prboom-plus

it has all of the same features

[ornate vortex]

afterall nosp3 was comp21

[hexed escarp]

i play with dsda on 3440x1440

[hexed escarp]

it changes nothing, only adds a couple linedefs and tons of new dehacked features

[finite crag]

where can i find the high quality resize option, and the SCALE4X option?

[hexed escarp]

wdym high quality resize

idk wtf you are talking about

[ornate vortex]

I'll switch it from comp9 to comp21 in that case

[hexed escarp]

ok, also that means the custom enemy doesnt need to replace anythiing

bc complevel 21 adds a bunch of blank objects

[finite crag]

there is a high quality resize option in the last page of the general options in PrBoom

[hexed escarp]

what does it do?

[finite crag]

It makes everything to not look pixelated, even when its in the distance

[hexed escarp]

ohh i see upscalling the textures

[finite crag]

yeah

[hexed escarp]

yeah you can just get wads that do that

you dont need a port feature for that

i personally think that that looks weird tho

[ornate vortex]

UDB supports mbf21 so problem solved

[finite crag]

which wads?

[finite crag]

i got used to it

[hexed escarp]

i dont know any off the top of my head but just look up doom upscaled textures

[finite crag]

okay, thanks

[hexed escarp]

ok yeah then @ornate vortex you just need walking animation, hurt animation, and attack animation for the fireballs which can probably just be taken from whatever enemy you are using as a base

and then you need two textures for a revive animation

[ornate vortex]

Walking animation is all ready

the attack, pain, death and resurrect sprites i'm still kinda working on

it probably won't take too long though

[hexed escarp]

actually the resurrect animation doesnt necessarily need to be two textures

it can be however long you want it to be

[ornate vortex]

the arch vile uses 3 sprites i believe

[hexed escarp]

yeah

but you dont necessarily need to stick to that

[finite crag]

@hexed escarp how can you change the enemy's speed?

[hexed escarp]

dehacked entity definition

there is a speed parameter

[ornate vortex]

I'll use 2 sprites for the "skinwalker" since there's not really much I can use sprite wise for it

[hexed escarp]

ok

[finite crag]

then i can choose to what speed it'll have in normal and with fast monsters enabled

[hexed escarp]

i think the fast monsters stuff is hardcoded

but with mbf21 there is a flag you can set on which frames you want to be faster on fast monsters

[ornate vortex]

It's walk is A-F so I suppose that's 6 sprites (even though it's 3 in slade)

[finite crag]

fuck the hardcode

[hexed escarp]

the actual move speed stays the same on fast monsters

its just that the move function is called more often bc the animations are faster

so they do move faster'

[finite crag]

Oh i see

[hexed escarp]

ok

for the first four letters of the sprite name put SP00 (the first blank sprite from complevel 21)

[finite crag]

@hexed escarp it's possible in whacked4?

[hexed escarp]

whacked4 doesnt support mbf21 :(

you can change the movement speed, but you cant change how fast monsters effects it

it should be around double

[finite crag]

I don't care about fast monsters

but i can use whacked4 okay

thanks

[hexed escarp]

np

[hexed escarp]

just open the things tab and select the monster you want to edit and change the speed param

[ornate vortex]

I assume SP00 has 29 sprites

[hexed escarp]

it has however many you want i think

however many all of the others have

[finite crag]

okay thanks

[hexed escarp]

np

[ornate vortex]

I doubt the enemy will need that many sprites but it's worth finding out

[hexed escarp]

yeah

just use as many as you want and assume it wont run out for now

for the fireball attack do you want me to just copy what the hive mother does? i can do that

[ornate vortex]

Thank you! This info has been extremely helpful, i'll see how far I get with this before I get stuck lol

[ornate vortex]

Oh

I suppose so

[hexed escarp]

i can also make smthn from scratch

[ornate vortex]

you sure you don't mind?

[hexed escarp]

yeah

i like doing dehacked stuff

but i dont have anything to make, so il do this

[ornate vortex]

Would I just have to send the sprites once i'm done editing?

[hexed escarp]

yeah

[ornate vortex]

Okay, I might need a couple days to get things ready first if that's okay

[hexed escarp]

yeah just send it whenever

[ornate vortex]

will do!

[hexed escarp]

you can see this when you fight the final boss of valiant

any time it resurrects something it visually turns into a regular archvile for a minute

[tiny tulip]

is anyone up for some ultimate doom deathmatch

[hexed escarp]

Can you send the walk animation now?

[ornate vortex]

sure, the rest might take a while

[hexed escarp]

Sounds good

[remote cedar]

hey guys is it possible for an Archvile to bring another Archvile back to life

Fucked up

thanks for the info tho

[azure nimbus]

no. he's incorrect. viles will not revive each other outside of fancy dehacked shenanigans(mods)

[remote cedar]

Faith restored, thanks for the correction

[azure nimbus]

some wads they do, like NoSp2, NoSp3, Legion and Spectrum of the balls of steel for example

[remote cedar]

alright cool now I know exactly which wads to avoid 😎

[past sentinel]

Hi! does anyone have a mod for doom 2 to offer me? i just started on doom 2

[remote cedar]

you could start with Final Doom, which provides two additional campaigns for Doom 2: TNT Evilution and The Plutonia Experiment

I'd personally say TNT is kinda mid from what I saw, and Plutonia is hard as balls

but those are at least official expansions that come witb the Steam release of Doom 2

[silent remnant]

Master Levels

[remote cedar]

I'm not knowledgeable enough to provide actual mods for Doom 2, although I've heard about Sunlust (I think that was the name of the mod)

[azure nimbus]

scythe2 is a great place to start

[craggy bone]

Plutonia is a must-play

I definitely wouldn't recommend Sunlust to someone who's just started out on Doom 2

Ancient Aliens and Valiant are both very good, as is Eviternity. I wouldn't say those three are that much harder than Plutonia, although they're definitely a bit tougher.

[tacit remnant]

Plutonia is probably a bit much right off Doom 2. Maybe Sigil on HMP

[craggy bone]

For a beginner Scythe is nice. A gentle difficulty curve and not too many tricks (up until the last episode, that is)

The first 20 levels of Scythe should be very manageable and fun for a beginner

[forest zodiac]

they can't revive Cyberdemons and Masterminds either

[azure nimbus]

if you want to cover everything that can't be revived: barrels, lost souls, and Romero as well. Pains usually can't but if they get crushed they leave reviveable guts that revive into a ghost on lower comp levels

[dapper flint]

I've seen archies revive archies with my own eyes👀

[tacit remnant]

Not in vanilla

[dapper flint]

I never said vanilla. But the horror is out there

[tacit remnant]

It has to have a “raise” state. Archeviles, lost souls, cybers, and masterminds don’t have one

Oh yeah definitely

[azure nimbus]

Do keens have it? I think they do but I'm not sure

[tacit remnant]

I think they do

For some reason. Incidentally I think it’d be a good idea to have a WAD specifically designed to teach players tactics and techniques that are important in higher difficulty wads and keen would make an excellent training dummy for such a wad

[azure nimbus]

there is meowgi's training hub

[tacit remnant]

I’ll put that on my list of wads to try when my laptop is working again

[spice radish]

BTSX, Valiant, and Pirate Doom are all a fun time

[tacit remnant]

Yeah. Final Doom is basically a Doom 2 expansion

[finite crag]

My condolences 🙏
Another one lost to TNT

[tacit remnant]

I got bored with TNT and quit. Plutonia is great. The format of short but intense levels is reminiscent of Super Meat Boy for me

[finite crag]

Tiktok and torment

I need to play more classic doom mods

What are some good shitpost or beginner ones ig

I need to finish it

I played plutonia 7 instead
Lmao

Why

[grand bramble]

no idea how, was hoping maybe someone has something normal (to today's standards) like jpgs or pngs

Anyone have jpgs or pngs of the DOOM skys they can pass along?

.

Btw love this modern sound track remake!

https://open.spotify.com/album/2GV8iJIzB2Eu8m1FKxYh8u

[narrow condor]

Once you load a wad on Slade, you can right click on your desired texture lump and click 'Export as PNG' under the 'Graphic' submenu.

[grand bramble]

Brings back memories! Listening to this one:

https://open.spotify.com/track/6KjjKy2ht6OmxGX3BnA8MQ

[vast reef]

not directly above you

[vast reef]

true
though i'm guilty of using GZ when i first played doom

[tepid tulip]

I'll agree with this

I like plutonias combat even if it is mean

It's more engaging and then when I see Civvies reviews of levels I haven't gotten to, I was like "oof"

[remote cedar]

I haven't played TNT but from what Civvie is showing us, it's honestly not good

as in, might be too easy and / or empty

Plutonia also has the problem of not good, but I'd say it's better than TNT even though it likes to throw archviles at you in the first level

It's a ridiculous step up in difficulty even after Doom II which can get pretty challenging

Oh by the way guys, what if I wanted to put Doom / Doom 2 on a USB drive to play it on another computer? Do you know a way to do that? If so, which source port should I use for that?

[narrow condor]

Plutonia is really good and I love mappacks modelled after it.

It's less about run-and-gun action and key hunt puzzles like its contemporaries and more about combat puzzles and intuition.

TNT, for example, focuses on the former elements as well as worldbuilding and environmental storytelling.

(With various degrees of success...)

[tacit remnant]

TNT levels aren’t empty so much as too big for their own good

[narrow condor]

It's kinda TeamTNT's signature, judging by how Eternal Doom ended up like.

Though Eternal Doom clearly pulled off the 'atmospheric key hunt in a large, labyrinthine world' much better than Evilution.

[dapper flint]

Oh I still always use gz. For mods and such plus ce is the best 64 experience. Great controller support. Maps you can only play through gz ect. I meant free look

[vast reef]

*guilty of using free look

😔

[dapper flint]

Dsda projectile opacity is annoying me though so I stopped using it

Dont know how to adjust it

[vast reef]

i'll try asking in the dsda server

[dapper flint]

Thanks man. I'd appreciate that

[dense plinth]

I still primarily use gzdoom

[vast reef]

apparently you can only adjust it in older versions

at least that's the only answer i've gotten so far

[dense plinth]

I only use freelook if a mod demands it though

[vast reef]

no problem with using GZ if you don't use freelook and jump

even then, those are mostly fine as long as you don't abuse them

[dapper flint]

Wonder why that was even implemented

[vast reef]

same

[narrow condor]

I can understand the use of freelook since some players are used to it and feel uncomfortable with Doom's regular mouse movement (well, as long as it's not used to cheat shooting switches and such) but jumping outright breaks all but a handful of maps.

[dapper flint]

Only time I use freelook is if I'm playing embers if armageddon but I mean that's basically new doom

[vast reef]

yeah

[narrow condor]

I'm talking about classic maps, by the way, I'm sure a lot of GZDoom TCs and such expressly require jumping and freelook.

[vast reef]

jumping in zdoom ports is only useful for sequence breaking (for non-zdoom maps)

[narrow condor]

I just use noclip for that. :-P

[vast reef]

lol

[finite crag]

Doom: The Golden Souls series comes to mind as one that requires that.

[narrow condor]

Yeah, there are quite a few elaborate mods for GZDoom.

[dapper flint]

Embers has double jump which is honestly super smooth. Never expected that

Tested it with doom the way id did and no breaks

[finite crag]

For me I go with what the mapper intended for the player to use, and run with that. Enabling freelook, and other non-vanilla features is reserved for future replays after I've already known the maps well enough.

[tepid tulip]

I be enjoying Doom 2 then boom, Downtown

I swear it's that one map where I tend to quit doom 2 bc I get lost in this crap for a while

I beat it but it's still an annoying map for me

[tacit remnant]

City levels are frustrating. They all kind of blur together in my mind

[past sentinel]

❤️ 👍

[tepid tulip]

It's a point where I tend to stop my doom 2 runs but then I forget about it later on

But at least I do enjoy the inmost dens

[tepid tulip]

I think I might legitimately beat Doom 2 this run if I feel like it but

Is tenements one of the bad city levels or average ones

I don't think I went past suburbs, it's a fun map I just never bothered to finish it afterwards

When I died badly