classic-doom

[finite crag]

it stunlocks him, so maybe if you don't fear that he will shoot you suddenly

[glossy lagoon]

Damn, that's actually very useful.

[narrow condor]

The pistol was originally going to be a rifle but it was changed before the release. The player sprite is still depicted as carrying a rifle.

[finite crag]

i think it was a better decision to change the rifle to pisotl

pistol

[narrow condor]

I agree. I think it directly led to the modern FPS arsenal of melee + pistol + main arm + specialised weapons.

[finite crag]

the rifle is much more powerful and i don't think it's good to start with a bit powerful weapon

[narrow condor]

You can just make the rifle a sucky weapon. Quake 3 gives you a roundsaw gauntlet and a machine gun as the starting weapons and the machine gun is so weak that it's borderline useless. (It's only good for sniping.)

[finite crag]

oh ok

but still it was a better decision to change to pistol

[narrow condor]

Yeah

[finite crag]

the pistol is a lame weapon, but it makes more sense to start with it because it's the basic weapon of all of the shooter games (except doom eternal)

[red token]

Doom > Doom 2

[finite crag]

yeah

doom 1 was so much better in music and level design

1 thing is wrong with it: it doesn't have the super shotgun

[red token]

The only things I like about Doom 2: super shotgun, new enemies and more modding supporting

[dapper flint]

Hot shit take if there ever was one

[finite crag]

what?

[spice radish]

Naw baron railguns take on 2016 was way worse

[dapper flint]

I stopped reading the nonsense a while back. Can't imagine why he's there

[wispy pike]

Hola

[red token]

Doom 1 is better than Doom 2 by a mile. Doom 2 starts good as Doom 1 but then it starts to have worse levels

[dapper flint]

Not a fan of doom 2 map 29? Even with its banger of a midi and absolutely brutal gameplay?

[red token]

Definetely not a fan of gimmicky level design

With those underwhelming City levels

Doom 2 feels like a mod, I like it but it definetely is worse than Doom 1

We all know why it turned out that way, most of the levels were made by Sandy Petersen

[dapper flint]

I think the majority of fans will agree doom 1 has amazing map design. But that's one aspect. 2 introduced some great things and for that I have to say it comes on top.

Nice wiki awnser

[red token]

Sandy isn't bad but some levels feels like something made as a filler

[dapper flint]

100 percent agree dooms levels are overall more memorable and fun.

[red token]

My greatest issue in doom 2 are just the levels, overall it's good because of the addition of more enemies and super shotgun

[dapper flint]

Definitely. I think I've put more hours into sigil than anything else at this point

[red token]

Isn't sigil made only with Doom 1 iwad? I don't think Romero put things from Doom 2

[dapper flint]

Yeah all doom 93 I believe the orginal plan for sigil 2 was doom 2 assets but he decided to stick to doom 93

[red token]

I don't understand why Romero didn't want to put Doom 2 things in Sigil

[spice radish]

Some of the levels are fine but there are lot more levels with questionable level design then Doom 1

[red token]

Nirvana 💀

[spice radish]

Chasm and most of the city levels lol

[red token]

When I first played Doom 2 I was excited for City Levels

Then I played them, at first I didn't even know those were levels set in a city

[dapper flint]

Looked like a city when I was a kid hahaha

[finite crag]

the chasm can go fuck itself in the deepest place of hell, in the boiler room of hell

[halcyon willow]

DOOM 1 is full of gimmicky level design. see: all of episode 3

[spice radish]

Limbo can fuck right off

[halcyon willow]

which is a shame because limbo looks cool and is a good idea

just poorly executed

[finite crag]

and unholy cathedral

and hell keep

and slough of despair

and fortress of mystery

and refinery

and-

[tacit remnant]

I actually like Slough of Despair except for the stupid lost souls at the end

[true mortar]

Bruh

[tacit remnant]

It’s quick but makes you feel very very weak and vulnerable without denying you the tools to prevail. That’s an achievement

I can even respect maps like Tricks and Traps for trying something unconventional and interesting, even if they don’t stick the landing. My favorite Doom 1 episode is Shores of Hell in large part because it has so many experimental levels that are usually decently fun

[finite crag]

episode 1 is great, but the high point of episode 2 are better

like e2m6

it's a very good level

[tacit remnant]

Episode 1 is fine, but I always felt that the levels blur together too much. Episode 2 is my favorite due to the aforementioned reasons and I like how Episode 2 on manage to feel oppressive without modern graphics or being especially hard

Episode 3 is a mixed bag. The levels are very experimental and sometimes work but sometimes they just don’t

[finite crag]

episode 3 is a large disappointment

probably e3m2, e3m3, and e3m6 got that hellish feeling

[tacit remnant]

I like Slough of Despair fine, Pandemonium is good, House of Pain is amazing, but then you have Limbo and Unholy Cathedral bringing down the whole thing

[finite crag]

e3m5 and e3m7 are one of the worst maps in doom

e3m4 is good

and e3m6 is the best in ultimate doom

in my opinion

[finite crag]

Whenever I replay doom I skip episode 4

I'm trying to have fun when I play it

[forest zodiac]

it's a wonder that they swapped around 2 and 3

[finite crag]

episode 4...

with long suffering but i beat it on UV-Max

with saves

thy flesh consumed is

[finite crag]

a terrible mess

certainly something

[finite crag]

true

like the maps in this order doesn't make sense

like e4m1 and e4m2 will kick your ass hardly

e4m3 is average

e4m9 and e4m4 are dead easy

e4m5 is boring

e4m6 is hard as fuck and i don't think i will ever play it again

e4m7 has cool atmosphere, and i think it's the best in episode 4, but again, e4m2 would have make more sense as a penultimate map

e4m8 is a good boss level, because it's an actual level

e4m8 is so good

why is that one last
😭

the last two maps are the best in episode 4

e4m8 is good, but e4m7 is even better

e4m1 deserves a fucking Z for Grade

i hate that map so much it makes the chasm play like skillsaw made it

[tacit remnant]

There is something fitting about e4m1 making you cry for resources. It’s kind of a joke at the player’s expense. That doesn’t make it good, but I can respect the audacity

[finite crag]

I like American McGee's maps, but e4m1 is an exception

But it's not the worst map in commercial doom, it's the second worst

doom 2 map30 is worse

[tacit remnant]

True. I’d still say that e4m1 is better than Unholy Cathedral. That map is just needlessly confusing

[finite crag]

e3m6 is a reward for the confusion of e3m5

i think e3m6 is the best in all of ultimate doom

it's wide open, and open world

and it's the only level in ultimate doom that doesn't take place indoors (maybe e4m3 can be an open world level)

[tacit remnant]

I actually don’t like Mt Erebus at all. It’s way too mazey to be allowed to have super lava

[finite crag]

i like it

there is a ton of rad suits

but, disagreeing is part of the fun, as mtpain27 says in all of his videos

[tacit remnant]

I never seem to find them. I also don’t like sandboxy levels much anyway

[finite crag]

@tacit remnant do you like doom 2 map27?

[tacit remnant]

I don’t remember which one that is

[finite crag]

monster condo, with those dark areas

[tacit remnant]

Oh it was alright

[finite crag]

it's my favourite in doom 2, the most atmospheric in ultimate doom or doom 2

[glossy lagoon]

Agreed. Mt. Eberus just feels too mazey, and the level design feels almost random at times.

It's very distinctive, but that's all the praise I really want to give.

Well, not mazey, but just...there's not enough telegraphed.

[finite crag]

btw, which part of final doom do you guys (& girls) prefer?

[tacit remnant]

Plutonia no contest

[finite crag]

i prefer TNT

for it's scenery

and realistic levels

[tacit remnant]

I can respect good atmosphere and such, but I mostly just want good combat encounters and to not get too lost

[finite crag]

yeah, tnt suffers from overly long levels

map20 is insanely long but in the good way

map20 is my favourite in TNT

[glossy lagoon]

Haven't played it yet, cannot comment.

I can't even get Sigil to properly download

[finite crag]

honestly, i played sigil before thy flesh consumed

[tacit remnant]

Sigil is both a masterpiece of making Hell feel like the inside of LotR’s Mt Doom, and a thorough punishing of gamer hubris. I can’t ask anything more of Romero’s triumphant return to Doom mapping

[finite crag]

i don't really trust romero, because doom 2 map26 is not that good, and he designed it

okay, sigil is very good

[tacit remnant]

Romero is usually good. He’s the only mapper I know who is at his best when being dickish with his traps

[forest zodiac]

there's a Cyberdemon in one map of Sigil on UV

[finite crag]

but i don't know if he'll make that mistake what he did in doom 2

[glossy lagoon]

I've mostly got the intention of following through sequentially. Ultimate DOOM ---> Sigil --> DOOM 2 --> Final DOOM, correct?

[tacit remnant]

Quick reminder that Doom 2 was made in a major time crunch

[narrow condor]

Romero made a lot of maps.

[finite crag]

No, i played it like: DOOM (1993 release, just 3 episodes) ---> DOOM 2 ---> Sigil ---> Final DOOM TNT ---> Ultimate Doom episode 4

[forest zodiac]

big-ass arrow on the styrofoam packing peanut ground in Map13

that map is horrendous

fucking annoying on pistol start

[narrow condor]

That seems to be the most popular order of playing, with TNT before Plutonia.

[tacit remnant]

Plutonia is noticeably harder

[finite crag]

i played plutonia but much more earlier than tnt

[narrow condor]

I played in this order too, but played Sigil the last because... Well, it came out much later.

[finite crag]

i didn't want to play TNT because i heard very bad things about it

[narrow condor]

It's overhated. It's not great but it's not that bad either.

[finite crag]

Last month i decided to give TNT a try, and i haven't encountered a bad level yet (maybe map10 because it's forgettable), i'm at map21, and i know that map22: habitat, and map25: baron's den will be the worst maps of TNT

@narrow condor

[narrow condor]

Then again, I wasn't a part of hhe community at the time I played the official iwads, so I went in with zero preconceptions.

[tacit remnant]

I found TNT really boring and quit halfway through myself. At least it isn’t bullshit like Doom Zero

[finite crag]

which map did you quit at?

[tacit remnant]

Don’t remember. Was 2-3 years ago

[finite crag]

i almost gave up at Mill, MAP18

that one is large and very complicated

i spent an hour running around in the halls

[narrow condor]

That's probably the biggest problem with TNT. The bad maps in the other iwads aren't as long and tiring.

[tacit remnant]

I don’t think I got that far

[finite crag]

mill was the biggest roadblock in TNT for me so far. I know that map21 will be very long but at least it has more action in it

and because of mill i can't listen to it's music anymore

it's called "Infinite" by Tom Mustaine, i heard it over, over, over and over again, again, and again...

[finite crag]

I just some how managed to squeeze glide in doom 2 map 22. I really don’t understand how I did but I did

[formal monolith]

I've come to prefer the enemy variety of 2 over 1, but 1 is a tighter experience for sure

[finite crag]

I just wanna say

romero is ABSOLUTELY going to hell for against thee wickedly

most of thy flesh consumed is easy but I gotta say, hell beneath and against thee wickedly caused a sensation akin to sleeping on a bed made of boiling water

[pallid urchin]

[ashen flicker]

I was at lunch and one of my school administrators comes up to me ( I was wearing a Doom shirt) and he says “So when does the Doom music kick in?”

I wish I was joking

When you get the super shotgun

[dense plinth]

it's much better and more balanced on hurt me plenty

Sigil UV seems to be made intentionally unfair

[craggy bone]

I've never gotten past Prison in TNT

I lose interest

And the multi-sided teleporter in the damaging floor to get to various parts of the level is just so very irritating

TNT is so mid. Even the famous maps like Wormhole are extremely mid

And about half of the original music is annoying

[hexed escarp]

The prison music is really good

It makes me nostalgic of something

What exactly, I’m not sure

Is it weird that as a teenager who wasn’t even alive when they were first made I like the classic doom games much more than the new ones and am super interested in them?

[finite crag]

@ashen flicker no way is that the mancubus from doom?

[vast reef]

no it's the shambler from quake

[finite crag]

Really? I woulda mistaken it for Hans Grosse

[finite crag]

Literally me

Modern doom is not as interesting

[vast reef]

no :)

tbh i think lots of teens out there like games older than them

a good portion of my friends do, mostly because we can't run newer games lol

[finite crag]

I don't like modern doom as much

It's just not as replayable or entertaining for me

Classic doom is fast paced and stuff goes by quickly

Also the modding scene is
Certainly something

[vast reef]

classic doom has one of the biggest modding scenes out there

or at least, dedicated modding scenes

still pretty sure it's up there in terms of amount of mods though

[tacit remnant]

I like both old and new.
The classic games are simple in a way that squeezes a lot out of their ruleset, and they are great for mods.
The newer games have a unique atmosphere and its own fun system, albeit a more complicated one.

[finite crag]

and perfect hatred

rommero made 2 of them

[finite crag]

get through map07, map08's music is the best in tnt

[finite crag]

What are some good short wads?

I don’t always have time for a 30 (or 4x8) map campaign

[finite crag]

dimensions 👍

[echo tartan]

how do i turn off the option to look up and down on GZdoom?

[finite crag]

go to options, then search for "freelook" then set it to "Off"

[echo tartan]

thanks

i wasnt sure how its called

[finite crag]

in gzdoom its called freelook

but in other ports it's called mouselook

[vast reef]

lmao

[finite crag]

i swear i hate map02 more than map01

[vast reef]

what wad

[finite crag]

dimensions

@vast reef

[vast reef]

god damn

[finite crag]

i played the first 3 maps, haven't played the secret maps yet

[vast reef]

very impressive that you can play dimensions

[finite crag]

map01 had like 90 attempts

or more

map02 had 34

map03 i don't even know

several hundred

hundreds

@vast reef

i played swim with the whales too

i couldn't dare to start map03

map02 had more attempts than 150

[vast reef]

hard wads can drain hours out of my time because i keep trying even if i know they're out of my league

[torn pivot]

Doom 64 32x - Staging Area - Rom Hack
https://youtu.be/b6BE7H7tmJ0

[finite crag]

finally finished TNT MAP21... 28 minutes wasted of my life

[finite crag]

DOOM 2’s UV is kinda hard

[dapper flint]

Sure.

[vast reef]

Sure.

[finite crag]

wdym

doom 2 is one of the easiest wads i have played

even on UV

Compared to the other commercial wads tho

doom 2’s UV is a huge step up from doom 1’s

doom 1 is easier, but doom 2 is still a child's play

[dapper flint]

It's almost like it has more monsters or something

[finite crag]

Yeah but like, a lot more

[finite crag]

Maybe child’s play for a child who does steroids and cocaine lmao

[finite crag]

i didn't have trouble with it

except for map27 and 29

and 9

I absolutely refuse to believe that you didn’t have trouble with UV on your very first time with it

[atomic dust]

to me, it’s the opposite. I like 2016 and Eternal more than Classic Doom

not saying Classic Doom is bad, but I don’t find it as great as people make it out to be

[finite crag]

i didn't have much trouble. I had trouble with maps 7,9,19,26,27 and 29

[dapper flint]

You're most definitely a nu doom player though. It's just well established lore at this point

[finite crag]

but the most trouble i had was on map7 and 29

i played it for the first time last year summer

obviously now i'm blazing through it

So you had trouble on dead simple but not the pit or refueling base

map10 has a lot of recovery items

it's not bad

Yellow key room is hitscan hell tho

i don't remember the pit giving me much trouble

[dapper flint]

Uv doom 2 was hard when I was a kid and never played a fps before. But I seriously doubt anyone that has any remote skill in a fps at all would have issues with doom 2 on uv. Just would be absolutely bizzare unless you're 12

[atomic dust]

I did enjoy my time with Classic Doom games and finished them a few times, but they didn’t really age well imo

[formal monolith]

2016 is my favorite Doom experience, but classic doom is not too far behind.

2016 probably did the best job feeling like the modern take on classic doom style gameplay

[finite crag]

Okay so like, I did doom 1 UV just fine, beat all the modern doom games on UV so I doubt I’m objectively bad at fps games

[dapper flint]

Might just be classic isn't for you. I played alot of Mario and I'm still bad at it. So there's a point there

[finite crag]

Probably just me being bad at vertically-oriented levels, I had some struggle with perfect hatred and against thee wickedly in doom 1 for that very reason lmao

[finite crag]

doom 1 episode 4 is hard and terrible

tru

yesterday i suffered through it on UV-Max with saves (not savescumming)

I would rather eat nails than UVmax episode 4, ur a braver soul than me 🫡

[finite crag]

me when i beat dimensions map03 on UV-Max after 300+ attempts: 😭

• savescum

Have a burgcubus, a reward for your perseverance

[finite crag]

thanks

[formal monolith]

I'm a hater of Thy Flesh Consumed, but I know many people like it

[finite crag]

i hate every map of it except E4M7 and E4M8

I like they will repent and unto the cruel

Hell followed is kinda boring

i like it because of it's atmosphere

and cool music

e4m8 is good because it's the best boss level id ever released

I know this might kinda be a sin but I don’t actually listen to the doom music when I play doom

WHA-

Plus I sawed the demons and Into Sandy’s city are the only classic doom songs I really like

The rest feel kinda samey and boring

[formal monolith]

SIGIL is just the real 4th episode

[finite crag]

all of doom 1's songs are different and good

except e2m4,e4m6,and e1m4 music

doom 2 has barely any songs that are iconic

the only iconic songs in doom2 are Running From Evil, Shawn's Got The Shotgun, and Into Sandy's City

btw, which do you guys prefer? Doom 1 or Doom 2?

i prefer Doom 1 because it's soundtrack and level design is better than doom 2, and Doom 1 feels like a story, and Doom 2 just feels like it's just random maps thrown on each other.

[formal monolith]

I agree with that, both have different strengths

Some maps on Doom 2 feel like they randomly just placed rows of enemies and things

Doom 1 has the sense of feeling like an actual world

If we count SIGIL as part of the Doom 1 experience, it might be unfair right?

Only really episode 1-3

[finite crag]

sigil feels like a sequel to episode 3

both episodes are hellish

[dapper flint]

Sigil plan old uv is just a joke these days. Can't really go back from uv plus fast

[finite crag]

But all of this is because doom 1 had a big Tom Hall influence

He wanted to make doom feel like a story, that's why doom 1 has episodes, and an intermission screen which shows you that you progress forward. Sad that under the making of doom 2 Tom Hall left ID software

Tbh I like the episodic structure of doom 1 better than the linear structure of doom 2

[finite crag]

doom 1 feels like a story in a real world

doom 2 feels like random maps thrown on top of each other

I feel like it enabled the different episodes to be different thematically which was a plus imo

[finite crag]

Yeah I def agree with that

[finite crag]

doom 2 would have been so much better if the other id guys weren't against Tom Hall's ideas

What were Tom halls ideas for doom 2? I don’t know the id lore

[finite crag]

The same as for doom 1

episodes, storytelling

an actual intermission screen

but eventually he left

It’s pretty clear that doom one has more of a story with how many people know the plot of doom 1 vs the “plot” of doom 2

[finite crag]

the plot of doom 2 is doom 1 basically

Is thy flesh consumed canon?

[finite crag]

hell nah

I mean It didn’t really do anything for the story anyways

Sort of just an intermission between doom 1 and 2

[finite crag]

i doesn't make sense that you make an expansion for your previous game when you already released your current game (ep4 was released in 1995, doom 2 was released in 1994)

I guess they just needed to make ultimate doom appealing so people who already owned the game would buy it

[finite crag]

yeah

iirc ultimate doom was a physical retail release where originally doom 1 was mail order only?

they just wanted to make more money with releasing the worst episode in ultimate doom 👍

[forest zodiac]

Actually, he left midway through 1’s development

Some of the maps he did like E2M7 were retained but his name was removed from the credits

[finite crag]

i think they released doom 1 again with the 4th episode called ultimate doom

[finite crag]

oh

[forest zodiac]

I point out E2M7 in particular because that was one of the iterations for the very first map

[finite crag]

but doom 1 had a big tom hall influence that's why it feels like a real world

[finite crag]

I feel like removing someone’s name from the credits is a dick move lmao

[forest zodiac]

Episodes 2 and 3 were swapped very late in development

[finite crag]

that's why episode 3 is the second worst episode in ultimate doom

if we do not count sigil, the last two episodes are the worst

[forest zodiac]

The Doom Bible gives off vague System Shock vibes to me

[finite crag]

The teleporters in dark citadel hurt my brain

[finite crag]

doom 64 map13?

[forest zodiac]

E3M5 is annoying

Tied with Map13 as my least favorite maps in 1 and 2 combined

[finite crag]

Other dark citadel

doom 64 map13 is called dark citadel

i think you thought doom 2 map19

the citadel

Wait I’m stupid I meant unholy cathedral

oh

e3m5

[forest zodiac]

Why the hell did they include that map in the October beta

[finite crag]

god pls fuck this chat-slowing thing it's fucking annoying

Maybe if you pray to daddy kex he’ll turn it off

🙏

@forest zodiac @finite crag did you try Going Down?

[forest zodiac]

Yeah

[finite crag]

map06 took me like 30 attempts

[forest zodiac]

I’m in the middle of a Going Down playthrough with NTMAI

[finite crag]

i'm at map07

map06 took me like 30 attempts

[finite crag]

what map

[forest zodiac]

I can’t remember

[finite crag]

I’m new(ish) to classic doom, still playing through all the official wads on UV

I’m absolutely dreading tnt, it looks so boring

[forest zodiac]

God I still want a Doom Shock game

[finite crag]

what map is you at?

[finite crag]

Refueling base

[finite crag]

in tnt

Not on tnt yet

Still playing doom 2

if you will play tnt, i warn you, map01-09 are not long but has a lot of hitscan, especially map09

[forest zodiac]

Civvie’s been going through it map by map via Youtube Shorts

[finite crag]

and map18 and 20 will be long asf

I’ve only played map01 of tnt

map18 was a huge roadblock to me

[finite crag]

map01 is the best starter map in commercial doom

I like that it has a berserk pack

[forest zodiac]

Fun fact: there’s a Cyberdemon there in multiplayer

[finite crag]

putting a berserk in the first map will make your players smile

[finite crag]

i know, i watched decino's video

berserk packs are epic and cool even though they are just glorified medkits on harder maps

Decino is galaxy brained

[finite crag]

i wonder how he isn't sick of doom yet

I guess he’s just really really passionate about it

I think it would be cool if he did quake analysis videos too tho

I guess it’s a little off topic but quake is wayyyyy easier than doom, beat the whole thing on nightmare

i played incredibly difficult wads like dimensions and swtw and they burnt me out for a few days

[forest zodiac]

The original’s Nightmare or the remaster’s Nightmare

[finite crag]

Originals

What’s the difference?

[forest zodiac]

The remaster’s is just hard mode but player health is capped at 50

[finite crag]

@forest zodiac i like how Going Down's maps are small and packed with enemies, not like most of the wads which have big maps

okay map20,23 and 28 is an exception, they are big, but the rest of the maps are small

[kindred acorn]

A

[atomic dust]

B

[narrow condor]

mouldy is really good at frugal and efficient use of space in general.

[finite crag]

me when i plan 2 32 map and 1 11 map megawad to make when i haven't finished map02 of my first wad yet: 🙃

[narrow condor]

I think trying to put out a megawad as your first mappack is a bad idea.

32 maps is a lot.

[finite crag]

it's not my first ever, but in my current megawad "franchise" it's the first i make now

it will have a total of 30 levels: 27 normal, 3 secret

i have planned the 2 sequels of it, but they have 32 maps, i wrote all of the maps names down on my phone, but i wrote the song which it'll use in the first, because in the others will have jimmy paddock, stewboy, and some kind of other songs not just tnt, doom2, and heavy metal musics converted to midi

@narrow condor

[formal monolith]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXcoFB_vlXM

[atomic dust]

I always felt like the secret levels in Ultimate Doom were testing levels that id included as secret ones in the final game so the effort put into them wouldn’t be wasted

especially Fortress Of Mystery. It just has 2 rooms with Barons and Cacodemons and nothing else

[ornate vortex]

32 maps is still a lot tho, just don’t burn yourself out. How I try and prevent burnout is that I make sure I know the idea behind each level as well as the layout

Speaking of which, I had many projects I never finished on doombuilder

[azure nimbus]

supposedly e2m9 was designed by Sandy to show off just how useful infighting is as a mechanic

[ornate vortex]

I guess MP27 didn’t realise that when he made his script

[finite crag]

I wrote the maps down to my phone, i have ideas for it. I work on the map until i feel tired, then i close the builder and continue tomorrow/a few hours later

[finite crag]

i know i'm crazy

but i will try to pull of a TNT MAP02 Nightmare 100% Secrets + Kills run

ok i give up

[pallid anchor]

That was quick tbh

[forest zodiac]

Fun fact: that’s the final map in the Jaguar port

[tepid tulip]

Well TIL that Doom is A LOT more diverse in terms of being inspired by different bands than I expected

and that E1M1 just coincidentally sounds like Metallica but I could count that if is sounds similar to them

[vast reef]

e1m1 is just

a common metal thing

[tepid tulip]

Yeah bc it isn't solely Metallica as another song sounds similar

I did watch Doomkids video on it so that's probably why I asked here

[finite crag]

i try it again

[coarse cradle]

have fun

[finite crag]

i won't record it because with Streamlabs OBS it's sometimes lagging, and i don't know how to record demos

and i don't want to watch a 10 minute long video about it

oh my fucking god

i failed like 25 times already

i get hit from every possible direction

i got through the outside area for the first time lol

i give up

[finite crag]

[finite crag]

I got past refueling base

[azure nimbus]

nice. that's a big level with limited ammo per monster

[spice radish]

The first game’s soundtrack takes heavily from bands like Metallica. Wouldn’t be surprised if the E1M1 riff was taken from Master of Puppets or No Remorse

[forest zodiac]

Actually, Bobby Prince said that was one of the few songs not directly based on any pre-existing song

[spice radish]

Really? I’m surprised. Can kinda see how that happens though. In ULTRAKILLS Act 1 ost the track “Into The Fire” has the E1M1 riff in the background and fans thought it was an Easter egg till the dev said it was just a coincidence.

[hollow flax]

Hey guys, I'm trying to remember a megawad name for doom 2

It was like a reimagining
but the only thing I recall from it was that the first section of the MAP01 of Doom 2 (the initial hallway with the hallway before going to the room with the imps) is extended and now has a lot of small corners with hitscanners

There was also a stuck door iirc

I looked up "doom 2 reimagined" but the wad that came up wasn't it

[dapper flint]

Doom 2 the way id did

[red token]

I am new to Doom Classic custom campaigns and levels. But what's the difference between a slaughter map and a normal level?

[atomic dust]

slaughter maps are usually very long and contain hundreds to thousands of enemies

[red token]

So are just normal maps with a lot of enemies?

[atomic dust]

no

[spice radish]

Slaughter Maps are massive and filled to the brim with enemies. For example look up a play through of a map from Going Down and then a play through of Okuplok and you’ll see the difference

Okuplok is a slaughter map while Going Down isn’t

[red token]

Ok thanks

[azure nimbus]

though there is a wide variety within the slaughter category from careful constructed gauntlets like fractured worlds, to adventures in late sunlust, to infight heavy low ammo fights like much of Ribbiks levels, or simple bfg spam like junkfood

[formal monolith]

Not a big fan of Slaughter Maps

[hollow flax]

No that's not it either
It's like the lab part of doom 2 map01 was extended not the hallway itself

[forest zodiac]

The Ultimate Doom 2

[formal monolith]

What's the hardest but fair wads you guys have played?

[dapper flint]

Fractured worlds @azure nimbus actually did a full playthrough very impressive

[azure nimbus]

Either map03 and map05 of FW that or map01 of Flotsam. NoSp2 has some really challenging maps but I don't think they're...all fair. They're speedmaps after all

[hollow flax]

I believed it was that but apparenty not
The first section doesn't have tight lab corridors with hitscanners

[forest zodiac]

Doom 2 ReBuild-t

[finite crag]

it has the highest enemy count in Doom 2

[finite crag]

doom 2 the way we remember it

[vale gyro]

Totally did not spend an hour on E3M8 on Nightmare! to just get a time of 36 seconds tops

[finite crag]

For me, it's a tie between Dimensions & Sunlust

[finite crag]

It certainly felt like it, 283 enemies I think

[finite crag]

Around that

[halcyon willow]

Interesting because I'd say Dimensions is much harder than Sunlust

[dapper flint]

It is

[dapper flint]

This is like saying plutonia is slaughter because of map 32

I see what you're trying to say with decino videos. But as someone that actually plays doom going down is definitely not a slaughter wad. When you decide to play wads instead of watching you'll find actual slaughter wads

Okay noob

Sure bud

And you're 12

[azure nimbus]

GD definitely has some bloody maps but it just isn't in the same category as these massive slaughter wads

[spice radish]

Going Down is set of maps not all of which are slaughter mappy. Okuplok on the other hand is one massive map.

so my original message still applies to some extent

Ok but not every map in Going Down is a slaughter map

[vast reef]

maps of chaos?

[vast reef]

yea

[hollow flax]

Yup that was it, tyvm

[vast reef]

welcome

[finite crag]

Anyone have any tips for dealing with the archvile on circle of death? (UV)

[azure nimbus]

use the cover between you two. If you're close, it baits out an attack which has the effect of keeping him still so you can stay in the same area with good cover. You only need to break line of sight for the frame that he hits his attack. So you'll have time for two or three shotguns between hits. If your body is up against low cover between you and him, you'll take greatly reduced damage too

[dapper flint]

I think the main issue here that made your butt hurt is the difference between large fights in a wad compared to actual slaughter which you clearly have never done

[azure nimbus]

Maybe we can say that some of GD is a sort of slaughter-light. It is a lot of monsters, but not the truly massive density in some unabashed slaughter. Even fractured worlds map02 is often considered slaughter, but doesn't have a huge amount of monsters in any single fight(just that it has 20 cybers at once lol)

[dapper flint]

Definitely agree great way to put it

[finite crag]

The part about only having to break line of sight during the attack frame actually really helped, I always knew that breaking line of sight negated the attack but I never knew which frame to actually avoid thanks man!

[finite crag]

How does modern doom get multiple channels but classic doom gets one smh

Where's the Plutonia channel

[finite crag]

Only Map28 is an actual slaughtermap, + 20, and probably 24

The rest of the maps aren't that slaughtery as Sunlust, dimensions etc.

[finite crag]

bff

bfg

[vast reef]

in fairness all the og doom games (doom 1, doom 2, and final doom) were the same game with different levels, except for doom 1, because it doesn't have all the enemies + lacks the SSG

[tepid tulip]

I think it's better to group all of them together

Plutonia is STILL Doom 2 and TNT Evilution

[spice radish]

There also isn’t a big enough difference to warrant giving Classic Doom, Doom II, and Final Doom there own separate channels

[vast reef]

my guy

if godown was a slaughter wad, scythe 2 would also be one

[ornate vortex]

I swear it took A1s like thousands of attempts

[finite crag]

Man I just played maps 1 and 2 of TNT on uv and there’s already a lot of chaingunners. Not that different then Plutonia really

[ornate vortex]

I think the term “slaughter wad” is stupid because so many wads are just labelled as slaughter when half of the maps aren’t even that type of gameplay

[finite crag]

705

[ornate vortex]

i agree that a lot of maps in going down are definitely slaughter, mouth of madness, bridge of blood, all of these maps are giant arenas in which hundreds of monsters unfold themselves

[finite crag]

he wrote it under his video

[finite crag]

From map03 it's easier

Plutonia map01 already has mancubi, pain elementals, cacodemons, and archviles

[ornate vortex]

yikes, and it took me over 1000 attempts to beat rush map 11 💀

[finite crag]

What's rush

i heard about it

but what kind of wad is that

i think slaughter if it took 1000 attempts

[ornate vortex]

A superb wad for people who want to indulge in fairly easy slaughter maps

[finite crag]

maybe i will try

[ornate vortex]

the last 2 maps are pretty brutal

Mouldy’s work in general just leaves me speechless

Overboard has become one of my favourite wads to speedrun

but I think half of the fun was how competitive it was

[finite crag]

and necropolis

[ornate vortex]

Half of the maps I was fighting for the record on uv max

[ornate vortex]

Andrea is a much better player than I am tho, so the records didn’t really last that long

[finite crag]

i'm at map07 in going down, and i hate map03 and map06 so much

[ornate vortex]

Map 3 was a bit weird in terms of navigation but map 6 i thought was great

Secrets and Lies I think had to be my least favourite map

[finite crag]

i don't like running in tight areas with an invisibility and hell knights shooting from higher points

and that's what map06 is

with invisibility is even worse

you want to use it for hitscanners, but you'll mow them down with ease, but the projectile-shooting enemies will hit you with every fireball from every direction

[ornate vortex]

Now that i’ve played harder wads, coming back to going down, it’s not actually so hard

[finite crag]

i don't say map06 is hard, it's annoying

[ornate vortex]

Necropolis has a high monster count but it’s nice in terms of ammo and invulns

[finite crag]

i'm looking forward to play it

[ornate vortex]

Im looking forward to playing Scythe II later this year

[finite crag]

but i don't even want to know how i'll success on map17

[ornate vortex]

as in uv max speedrun it

[finite crag]

i'm playing that too

i'm at map15

map01's music is good, but it's looped for 1 minute straight

[ornate vortex]

i’m trying to get into harder wads in terms of speedrunning because I feel as if it would benefit me

[finite crag]

I'm almost at the end of the third episode: Industry (Map11-15) and i can say that Industry is the worst episode in Scythe 2 so far

in midi it's looped

[ornate vortex]

i started off with rush because it’s not too hard but the last levels give a taster of what’s in the future

some thread I saw a while back said the destination was one of the hardest maps they’ve played

single segmenting it on its own is almost like playing a mid sunlust map

[finite crag]

do you play it from a pistol start?

[ornate vortex]

if you’re speedrunning, you’re forced to pistol start, so usually i do pistol start each map

plus I think rush intends pistol starting

[finite crag]

now i'm starting on map22 in TNT...

[gusty falcon]

https://youtu.be/zRIiMdMz5o8

I'm definitely late to the party he released the enhancement mods he uses last year

Finally a better vanilla weapon sound mod than the psx sounds

[finite crag]

And Revenants
And archviles

[hexed escarp]

do you guys think civvie is gonna release a full pro tnt video or is it just gonna be the shorts?

[dapper flint]

True

[unreal summit]

who wants to do deathmatch in doom 2?

[jagged glade]

So, what do y'all think is the best soundfont?

[vast reef]

how the fuck would you use the term "slaughter map" disparagingly

doesn't that mean when you say something with little respect to who/what you're addressing

[azure nimbus]

Some people do. They use it as an insult.

"Like wow, the first third of Sunlust is fun but then map15 is just slaughter. Too many monsters. Real doom is when corridor shooter techbasse secrets too many monster no bfg spam fun"

[narrow condor]

Some people outright refuse to use the term slaughter map because of that negative association, overuse to the point of meaninglessness and the lack of a concrete definition.

[vast reef]

damn lmao

[spice radish]

He’s probably just gonna do the shorts. He’s still giving in to the people who wanted a TNT video though lol

At the end of his No Rest For The Living episode he said expect Doom content very very soon and I hope it’s not these TNT shorts but I think it is

[finite crag]

There is no best soundfont, SC-55 is what everybody is used to, and Arachno makes the songs dramatic (which is not bad)

[hexed escarp]

Only problem with arachno is the guitar sound is really obnoxious

[forest zodiac]

https://github.com/trevor0402/SC55Soundfont

this specific SC-55 soundfont in particular

[jagged glade]

So, why that one specifically? Is that GZDoom default, or what?

[forest zodiac]

because it has the highest quality samples

by default GZDoom uses the really low quality SC-55 synth Windows has built-in

[jagged glade]

I was asking what everybody thought it was, I'm just locking for recommendations.

[jagged glade]

Ah, so it's just a high quality GZDoom default, okay. Thanks for explaining.

[narrow condor]

I don't even bother with soundfonts and just use plain OPL emulation.

I'm a SoundBlaster fan.

[finite crag]

and that's one of the reasons i'm not using GZDoom

[jagged glade]

Can't say I'm familiar.

[finite crag]

in prboom+ the default fluidsynth is perfect

[narrow condor]

It's extremely easy to set up the music playback on GZDoom.

[jagged glade]

I use mods via ZDL, so...

[narrow condor]

https://zdoom.org/wiki/OPL_synth_emulation

[finite crag]

me too

[narrow condor]

I use Nuked OPL3 in particular.

[jagged glade]

So, I'm seeing all kinds of stuff here, FluidSynth, OPL Synthesis, WildMidi, Timidity++, no idea what's going on

[finite crag]

these are midi players

[narrow condor]

OPL synthesis is the odd one out. It's not a software MIDI player but a software-level emulation of an FM synthesis sound chip by Yamaha that was popularly used by sound cards like SoundBlaster in '90s.

[jagged glade]

I heard SoundBlaster was lower quality than the Roland stuff though?

[narrow condor]

Yeah but I don't associate Doom with crystal clear perfect audio samples.

I like the crunchiness of DOS game music.

[jagged glade]

Ah, okay. I'm not here for nostalgia, I'm Gen Z.

So I'll take the higher quality stuff.

No offense.

[narrow condor]

I'm not in it for nostalgia either, it's just what I like myself.

For the same reason I don't use HD texture replacements.

[jagged glade]

So, is fluidsynth the best of them, or are there other differences I should be aware of?

[forest zodiac]

I use VirtualMIDISynth to control the soundfonts I have

[finite crag]

Fluidsynth plays it perfectly. Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth is similar, but OPL plays it like it was in the original DOS version of Doom, so don't use OPL

[jagged glade]

Control how?

[narrow condor]

MIDI players play back the pre-recorded audio samples stored in the soundfonts. Roland SC was a hardware MIDI player with its own soundfont. (And pretty much nobody who wasn't making music owned one.) OPN and OPL are comparable to the more famous audio chips like AY-3-8910 or SID if you're familiar with those in that it generated the audio through waveforms rather than just playing recorded samples.

Hope that clarifies the distinction.

[jagged glade]

Also, I'm asking about sound fonts because I tried Arachno but it makes Ancient Aliens sound wrong to me.

[forest zodiac]

it lets me load in multiple soundfonts and enable and disable them at will

[jagged glade]

So is it mostly just Roland SC55 a d Arachno, then? I heard about fonts like Compifont or Timbres of Heaven?

[finite crag]

Do you guys have wads which have slaughtermaps?

with challenging, but not too hard slaughtermaps

[jagged glade]

I think a YouTuber called Dean of Doom had a video about that?

[finite crag]

uh

sry

A youtuber called MtPain27 has a series called Dean of Doom which probably has a video about some kind of wads i talked about

[jagged glade]

Yeah, him. My mistake.

I think it's called Sawed Off Wads?

[finite crag]

yeah, i watch that now

[jagged glade]

There's also the DAKKA mod for GZDoom which I recommend, it makes you a bit more powerful while staying fun

[finite crag]

Can i run it on PrBoom+?

Or at least on compatibility set to Boom (strict)? @jagged glade

[jagged glade]

Nope, doesn't look like it.

It supposedly works on ZDoom 2.8.1 with a compatability patch, but besides that, you need GZDoom 2.2.0 or higher, or Zan 3 or higher

[finite crag]

ZDoom is buggy for me, and i hate to use Zan or GZDoom

oh well

whatever, i'll use GZDoom

[jagged glade]

To be honest, I find it difficult to use anything else

[dapper flint]

Gz needs alot of tweaking when you first get it but the time put in is definitely worth it

[finite crag]

I used it for a couple months before i tried PrBoom+

[narrow condor]

GZDoom tuned for a vanilla experience came to be the most comfortable source port for me.

[dapper flint]

Dsda has fantastic controller support these days so I've been using that more

[finite crag]

Dsda doesn't has the options i like in prboom+

like fov setting

[dapper flint]

Ya it does suck I'm very used to 100 fov

[finite crag]

and in DSDA doomguy is much slower than in Prboom+

[dapper flint]

I don't think that is true. I think the illusion of moving faster is tied to fov

[finite crag]

i tested it

and i don't use controller so whatever

i'll use prboom+

[dapper flint]

If that was true you wouldn't have the ability to submit prboom demos

[finite crag]

i dunno how to record demos lol

[dapper flint]

It would essentially make every run using that port cheating

[finite crag]

interesting

you're right a bit

maybe it's the fov

i dunno im confused

[dapper flint]

Ya I mean you should submit those times if you've done research

That would be very interesting

[azure nimbus]

what are you talking about. It's possible that...sorry if this is patronizing, didn't realize that you had always-run off when you played dsda or are completely making things up

[finite crag]

maybe

whatever

i'll stick to prboom cus i'm used to 130 foc

[narrow condor]

It was made on Roland.

[finite crag]

fov

[narrow condor]

I don't think id Software produced Doom with the expectation that the players would have Roland SC available at their disposal.

[finite crag]

whatever i'll stick to PrBoom, i'm used to 130 fov

[narrow condor]

That's a bit of an understatement.

I don't believe there was any reason for anyone to have had a Roland SC at the time for a reason other than making music.

[azure nimbus]

you can raise the fov in dsda as well. It's in the dsda.cfg file

[finite crag]

can i open it with notepad++?

[azure nimbus]

idk about notepad ++ but whatever text editor you use should work fine

[jagged glade]

https://youtu.be/4U0E0xrqvSY Does anyone know how to get this kind of playback in game?

He says it's a soundfont combo mix, but he doesn't say if he's using multiple soundfonts at once, or one for each song, or which one he's using for each track, or what

[forest zodiac]

the title screen music in Doom 1 actually has an alternate version for FM devices

[finite crag]

i dunno, doom 1 feels much more uncanny than doom 2

doom 1 has much more depressing levels than doom 2

like e3m4, e1m8

etc.

[vale gyro]

I restarted my Doom 2 run recently (computer switch)

And I got scared when I started Map10

[finite crag]

map10 no scary

[vale gyro]

Thankfully, it's extremely easy if you have every weapon except BFG

[vale gyro]

scary for me as the first time I got to that level

[finite crag]

map10 is killing a lot of demons spread over the entire map

[vale gyro]

I had to restart it like 100 times

[finite crag]

why did you get scared?

got*

[vale gyro]

well

Because I remembered the level kicking my ass constantly

but that was with a pistol start

with this run, it was a breeze

[finite crag]

what difficulty

[vale gyro]

HMP

[finite crag]

oh

[vale gyro]

I cannot do UV as I'm absolutely shit at the game (like everything else)

[finite crag]

I can beat doom 2 on UV with fast monsters enabled from pistol start

and the only hard maps i can think of in fast monsters is map04, 22, &29

[vale gyro]

well

I'm just starting Doom 2 tbf

[dapper flint]

29 on nightmare is definitely a fun challenge

[vale gyro]

And with me just sucking at games generally

[finite crag]

i don't dare to play on nightmare

just UV -fast

[vale gyro]

I have actually beat two levels on nightmare

E2M8 and E3M8

[dapper flint]

You should one day. Just generally a fun challenge

[finite crag]

i tried doom 1

[vale gyro]

I only have a demo for E3M8 sadly..

[finite crag]

got killed 54 times on e1m9

[vale gyro]

that's when I was speedrunning it

[finite crag]

e3m8 is dead easy even on pistol starts

[vale gyro]

yea

I actually struggled with it on HMP

found it easy half the time on nightmare (thanks double ammo)

[finite crag]

yeah

[vale gyro]

I still found it hard

[finite crag]

ITYTD and Nightmare gives you double ammo

[vale gyro]

but It was manageable

it was a fun challenge, ended up with a time of 36 seconds at the end

it's not a fast time for E3M8, but still

[finite crag]

not long ago i speedrunned doom 1 episode 1-3

i think i got 30 minutes or smth

[vale gyro]

also

I regret playing E4 before doom 2

I now have an infamous hatred for it

I absolutly hate E4, and I refuse to play it again

[finite crag]

i would say the similar but without the last two words

[finite crag]

E3 & E4 are the worst in doom 1

[vale gyro]

I kinda liked E3

I hate E4 though

You cannot describe my hatred against it

[finite crag]

have you tried E5? (Sigil)

[vale gyro]

gave up

[finite crag]

I hate it too

[vale gyro]

I got to a certian level

got scared of cyber that time, have not played it since

[finite crag]

You can telefrag him

[vale gyro]

mainly because I haven't got around to it again

but uhm

is BTSX extremely hard?

[finite crag]

I actually played sigil before E4

[finite crag]

dunno, haven't tried it yet

[vale gyro]

Looking at playing it'

[gusty falcon]

Btsx really hard? Not really

[vale gyro]

so if you could compare it to E4 (literally the hardest map set I've played pretty much), how would you rate it against that?

I assume it's harder than E4 to some extent

[finite crag]

E4M1, E4M2 will kick your ass hardly

[vale gyro]

indeed

[finite crag]

E4M3 is average

E4M9, E4M4 are dead easy

[gusty falcon]

Uh hahaha you think episode 4 is the hardest mapset?

Honestly btsx is nowhere near perfect hatred

[finite crag]

E4M5 is boring

E4M6....

I can describe it in two words

actually, one word and one letter

[vale gyro]

I never said it was

I said it was personally one of the hardest I've played

[gusty falcon]

You said literally the hardest mapset

You just said that

[finite crag]

My two words about E4M6:

Grade: F

[gusty falcon]

But i understand

[vale gyro]

actually, two words, one letter, and one symbol

[finite crag]

🤓

but you're right

[gusty falcon]

E4 is nothing honestly nothing compared to the hardest community maps

Which is kinda scary

Okupluck I recommend looking up game play if it just to see the insanity of difficulty that the community can cook up

[finite crag]

Okuplok...

i played that

[narrow condor]

Did you beat it?

[finite crag]

almost

But i have two words about okuplok

and this time it's two words

Shit-design

[gusty falcon]

Yep it's very much just a gauntlet of let's chuck a million at the player as far as I've seen

[finite crag]

I like slaughtermaps, but not slaughtermaps that are like Okuplok

Okuplok is long, has crappy design, and it's insanely fucking hard, scarce ammo

I've played a lot of hard community wads

so i'm experienced

write what you wanted

Like, 23000 enemies?

how are you supposed to beat it without 7 saves/min

and i got sick of the midi

while i played it

I never want to hear it again

so yeah

I've played Dimensions too

that one is much better than okuplok

[azure nimbus]

nope

[spice radish]

There’s difficult segments but I wouldn’t say extremely hard

I had more trouble with Plutonia and Sigil then BTSX

[azure nimbus]

most of the challenge comes from navigability and secret finding. But fights are not doo bad

[finite crag]

bro

they say that in scythe 2 map31 you need to collect all 3 keys within 11-12 seconds to access the exit to map32

[azure nimbus]

technically it's not the keys but rather touching within the region around the key so you could miss one but basically yeah

[finite crag]

but i did it in almost the same amount of time and the fuckin secret exit locked its ass

[azure nimbus]

So what's the contradiction? You said almost so...

[finite crag]

i dunno what was erik thinking

this map is worse than scythe's map28

and

[azure nimbus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynxn_VAjB28

[finite crag]

the other thing

i play on PrBoom+, and there the Evil Marines are regular zombiemen

and it works in GZDoom, but i basically cant turn properly in GZDoom

@azure nimbus

[azure nimbus]

strange. idk, I would just use dsda

[finite crag]

i will try on dsda

now

[azure nimbus]

remember -complevel 2

[finite crag]

that's uhh which

doom 2?

[narrow condor]

BTSX is a very well-rounded mappack.

If you play it on a lower difficulty, it won't put up much resistance.

[spice radish]

It’s visuals are pleasing I love it’s look a lot

[narrow condor]

Yeah, I love the visual design in BTSX. It's amazing how much they managed to accomplish under vanilla limits.

The soundtrack is great too.

[azure nimbus]

yep. scythe2 is vanilla limit removing

[narrow condor]

Tough Skin River is a very memorable map and its epilogue The Unsinkable Fats Domino is probably the best closer for a mappack I've ever seen.

[azure nimbus]

Think I'd give that to FW07

[limpid tendon]

hey guys, can someone help me find my save files for doom GOG version? where are they stored

[dapper flint]

I like btsx when I was a console only owner. I just don't think it holds any water now that I'm on pc with the options available

[dapper flint]

Idclev enter map number

[narrow condor]

Maybe it's just because the first chapter is one of the first custom wads I've ever played. I don't plan on replaying it, lest I realise it didn't age well.

[limpid tendon]

@dapper flint where is that?

[dapper flint]

Ya basically me here

[dapper flint]

Just start a new game type In idclev and what map number you were on

[limpid tendon]

im trying to delete my saves

[finite crag]

@azure nimbus in dsda they are zombiemen, too

[azure nimbus]

they aren't even zombiemen in the dehacked. They're dehacked wolfenstein guys

Where did you get your doom2.wad

[finite crag]

gog

#screenshots

and i set the default complevel to 2

[azure nimbus]

I think it has something to do with the iwad or GOG. You have green crosses on the medikit too. It's gotta be something with that

[finite crag]

w

[azure nimbus]

The crosses should be red

[finite crag]

maybe gog changed it

because i bought it from gog

[dapper flint]

Gog uses unity so that would have the change

[finite crag]

but it's interesting that the A-frit shows up in map26 @azure nimbus

[azure nimbus]

because Afrit's replace Keens (and also cube spawner frames). It's wolfenstein guys that are sometimes changed in official ports that change the game

[finite crag]

maybe

guess i'll suffer with it in GZDoom

or just noclip to the exit

[narrow condor]

That sounds like the BFG edition to me. BFG edition removes all Nazi iconography, including the Wolf SS guys.

[finite crag]

no

the wolf ss are in the game

[dapper flint]

Unity

[finite crag]

the nazi imagery isn't censored

i tested it on doom 2's secret levels, the wolf guys are there

[narrow condor]

The Unity version adds them back but with a different wake-up sound.

[dapper flint]

Gog steam ports are both unity

[narrow condor]

Aha

[finite crag]

wait WHAT

[azure nimbus]

idk how to do it form gog, but on steam: manage game -> files -> doom2.wad

[finite crag]

So, in Prboom and Dsda, the wolf guys are zombiemen, but the nazi imagery isn't censored. In GZDoom there are the original wolf guys. BUT! in Going Down in Prboom, the red mastermind replaces the Wolf SS, and it isn't a zombiemen, it's the red mastermind

wdh

i tested it in the original Doom 2 enhanced app, and the wolf guys are there

@azure nimbus

no it's the zombiemen again in gd

[azure nimbus]

the...enhanced app?

[finite crag]

Yeah, doom 2 enhanced GOG version is the original app

but the fricking nazi symbols aren't censored

it works in GZDoom but not in Boom

well crap

whatever

i will look it up if a wad has a enemy witch replaces the wolf ss

then i'll play with gzdoom

i'm so confused

so i bought the BFG Edition, which is considered the Enhanced Gog Version

ok then

fuck BFG Edition

[azure nimbus]

don't use bfg

[finite crag]

i swear i will download the original for free somewhere

but wait

In valiant, the Wolf SS is turned into a chainguner to drop clips

but here they are, they aren't zombiemen #screenshots

and they drop clips

Have you tried the wad file that comes with the dos version? Should be unchanged, and you can test that out with a source port to see if you still get the issues.

i didn't, i tried the wad file that comes with the 25th anniversary enhanced version

in the original it surely isn't censored

Correct, thus the suggestion to use the dos wad file since GoG included that as an option.

in scythe 2 and going down it's a zombiemen, but in Valiant it's the enemy it's supposed to be

maybe the complevel

because i set it to latest PrBoom before testing valiant

Valiant makes use of MBF where the others don't. Going Down uses Boom, and Scythe 2 is just limit removing. Basically MBF is bypassing the issue with the way MBF works. Thus it not having the issues the other two have.

then i'll use MBF on wads if they are not specified to one

if they are and they have an enemy replacing the Wolf SS then i'll use GZDoom

[azure nimbus]

mbf11 will change the game mechanics significantly re infighting. If you choose to always run mbf, may as well run mbf21 because it plays more vanilla oddly enough

[finite crag]

i will

[finite crag]

it changes the mechanics completely, or just a bit?

[azure nimbus]

It raises the default infighting threshold(on spawn) from 0 to 60(or maybe 80)

[finite crag]

and does it make harder to get enemies to infight?

i looked it up

it isn't a problem to me

"Granular control over monster infighting and projectile/splash damage susceptibility (e.g. you can make barons and knights infight, or make imps immune to cacodemons and barrels, and all sorts of funky combinations)"

[azure nimbus]

yes. Enemies will not target each other until they've taken a few steps. In vanilla, the infighting threshold only activates once a monster is damaged by a new target or yourself

[finite crag]

It isn't a problem to me

[narrow condor]

It wildly changes the way a lot of combat puzzles work.

A cyberdemon teleports in and gets hit by the mancubi behind him. Does he turn back and shoot as you run or does he splatter you immediately?

[azure nimbus]

It's one of the main reasons the boom standard was stuck to until mbf21

[finite crag]

as mmjp08 explained, the mancubus hits him, it takes a couple steps (a couple seconds) to the cyberdemon to retaliate

[azure nimbus]

that's not how it works. It's not like he just delays his reaction. He has to get hit after that period

[finite crag]

oh

then i change to mbf when the wad has a enemy which is replacing the wolf ss guy

[sand pelican]

Icon of sin hard as hell

The new icon is a cupcake compared to this thing

[azure nimbus]

try using a crosshair. Most ports including steam and modern consoles have it. Crosshairs help a ton for the icon and can help for lining up ssg shots on faster targets as well

[finite crag]

It’s much worse on UV or Plutonia

Doom 2 HMP it’s just timing

[craggy bone]

The Icon is the same on UV and HMP, no?

[azure nimbus]

The only difference from HMP to UV is the revenant at the front. Easy(ITYTD and HNTR) also have some invulns and a slower monster spawner(monster spawners are half-speed on -skill 1 and -skill 2

[tacit remnant]

Key question: is this just for fun or with the eventual goal to submit a record? If the latter you really need to use a vanilla port for it to count (unless there’s a Brutal specific category but I don’t think there is)

[ornate vortex]

probably is on speedrun.com

[vast reef]

you're probably either not used to the lower FOV, or you had autorun off in DSDA

nobody speedruns doom with brutal doom

brutal doom barely makes the game faster, just makes it feel faster for the most part, but i'm not going to go into that

anyway, if you want shortcuts, just watch the world record speedruns

[finite crag]

There's an easy doom shortcut

So basically you type idspispopd

Ok done

[tired dawn]

guys

nah nvm

[finite crag]

I tried DSDA and changed the FOV in dsda.cfg and it's the same as in PrBoom+ (what i've used to)

But the problem is that DSDA doesn't have a high quality resize option, neither the SCALE4X texturing

[finite crag]

i booted up DSDA and it wrote this #screenshots fuck bfg edition

but MBF helps me out luckily

[grizzled swan]

If i liked doom 1 and 2, will i like quake?

[forest zodiac]

yeah

[grizzled swan]

Alr thanks

[spice radish]

Definitely. Quake is really fun

Though the boss fights suck

[finite crag]

Assuming there are any

[spice radish]

There are like 2 and there both mid

[finite crag]

True

[spice radish]

Shub Nigeria is mildly better but could be improved

[finite crag]

The “boss fights”

You beat both of them simply by running forwards and occasionally turning

Other than that fun game tho, episode 3 is definitely my favorite

[manic rose]

Is quake worth giving a shot if I liked doom and HL?

[grizzled swan]

What platform should i play it on?

[forest zodiac]

what platforms do you have

[dapper flint]

🇳🇬

[grizzled swan]

Switch or xbox

[spice radish]

It plays more or less the same on both. I mean the games coming up on 27 years old

[spice radish]

I enjoyed it. If you like or played most of the big 90’s FPS games yet you haven’t played Quake you should definitely give it a shot

[spice radish]

Yeah. Though I kinda like how you have to go inside Shub Nile River to defeat her and it ends with you telefragging her.

Could definitely be way WAY better though

[dapper flint]

👁️

[grizzled swan]

I see, ive looked into it and it seems the wolfenstein dudes who ported it to switch made a new expansion for the port, so ig my decisions been made for me

[manic rose]

What's the best way to experience quake?

[spice radish]

The remastered version that’s now sold everywhere is really well done but if you want a source port I recommend Quakespasm

[manic rose]

Thx

[forest zodiac]

nah, Ironwail is newer and better

way more efficient, supports loading in the remaster content

[spice radish]

Oh. I never heard of this source port before good to know. Hey @manic rose check this one out as well.

[worn nebula]

I just finished the og 3 doom episodes on Ultra Violence for the first time

Was not expecting the mastermind to go down so quickly, I thought it’d take more than just hammering at it with a bfg for 5 seconds to beat it

[vast reef]

ironwail or vkquake yeah

ironwail had some technical issues on my old laptop

either way, there are way better ports than quakespasm

[azure nimbus]

each level was designed to be beaten pistol start. Considering that the bfg is far far more powerful than plasma, it makes balancing for continuous play harder.

[worn nebula]

Seriously?? Didn’t know that was the case, still, you’d think they’d at least give the spider more than a hitscan chaingun and a few Cacos and Barons.

Then again my only other experience trying to beat doom as a kid was doom on the Saturn, and idk wether it was the lack of frames or the lack of field of view but it felt so much harder as a kid

[spice radish]

Well the early console ports where less then desirable

[grizzled swan]

Now play doom 2

I found doom 2 way harder than doom 1 tho, even tho i played doom 2 on hurt me plenty, the levels and new enemies are so much more difficult

[tacit remnant]

Doom 2 is marginally harder

[worn nebula]

Oh yeah, if it wasn’t for the super shotguns existence chaingunners and archviles would put me in therapy. I don’t own DooM 2 on anything se for through DooM eternal so my sole experience in recent memory with doom 2 monsters is Revolution!, and revolution! is horrible

[finite crag]

yeah, she's pathetic

[grizzled swan]

Archviles

Also the chasm

[finite crag]

chasm is horrible

i don't know why so many people like it

[grizzled swan]

I actually really enjoyed it, but damn was it hard

[finite crag]

in my first playthrough i fell down like what, 20 times?

[tacit remnant]

Chasm isn’t great but it’s not terrible.

I appreciate having to be extra cautious about my movement once in a while

[finite crag]

i'd say that Barrels O'Fun is harder

[grizzled swan]

Which one was that?

[tacit remnant]

Barrels O Fun is pain

[finite crag]

MAP23

the map before the chasm

[grizzled swan]

Oh i remember that one

[finite crag]

Pistol starts made me hate it

[grizzled swan]

The one with like 3 quadrillion barrels and even more enemies

[grizzled swan]

I just didnt do pistol starts

[finite crag]

for a while now i play from a pistol start in every wad i play

[grizzled swan]

I get that thats how the game should be played but ammo management is a real pain

I played doom 1 with pistol starts but outside of that there are too many enemies and not enough ammo

[finite crag]

MAP23 gives you a shotgun, and you have to go through the two rooms with a ton of enemies with the shotgun

and not enough shells

but MAP23 is not the hardest in doom 2

[tacit remnant]

Archeviles, chaingunners, and Revenants are nasty but Doom 2 isn’t nearly as dickish with them as it could have been

[finite crag]

for me, atleast

[grizzled swan]

What is

[finite crag]

Abandoned Mines PTSD

[tacit remnant]

See also: Plutonia is where shit gets real

[finite crag]

The Living End, MAP29

[grizzled swan]

Oh that one

[tacit remnant]

The Living End is my favorite Doom 2 map

[finite crag]

My favourite is MAP27, Monster Condo

with those dark rooms with flashing lights, it's very atmospheric

[grizzled swan]

I didnt find that one too bad, but i suppose by that time i had full ammo on almost all weapons bc i didnt do pistol starts so i probably just bfgd everything

[grizzled swan]

The archviles in that one tho, i hated it

[finite crag]

when i speedrunned doom 2, i used the archvile at the exit door with the red key to open it for me

with that you can skip the whole level

[grizzled swan]

Oh

[tacit remnant]

My favorite commercial classic Doom map is probably Tombstone despite how much trouble I had with it

[grizzled swan]

Which one was that?

[tacit remnant]

Plutonia map

Don’t remember the number

[grizzled swan]

Oh

[finite crag]

It's MAP23 in plutonia

[tacit remnant]

There you go

[grizzled swan]

Is doom 64 considered ‘classic doom’?

[coarse cradle]

i would say yes personally with it's gameplay style

[finite crag]

And because doom 2 MAP23 was so popular, TNT, and Plutonia MAP23 also had the "Bye Bye American Pye" music

and i hate that song

it's just like Kitchen Ace from doom 1

[grizzled swan]

Was good

[finite crag]

It would be cool, but it turns out bad

[tacit remnant]

I don’t remember the music playing. I think I played a lot of Plutonia without sound while listening to YouTube content

[finite crag]

i still haven't played Plutonia lol

but i played much harder wads

[coarse cradle]

are there any wads that are similar eternal's levels? i heard there was a hell on earth one but couldnt get it to load so im tryna find some more

[finite crag]

eternal doom, or doom eternal?

[coarse cradle]

like wads that are like eternal's levels for classic doom

[finite crag]

i don't think so

eternal's levels are too large and have too much stuff in them i don't think anybody can make it in classic doom

[coarse cradle]

yeah