the-dark-ages

[thorny yarrow]

This wouldn't make any sense since all souls in hell are reduced to the essense eventually.

[frail bloom]

What does this have to do with doom it's its own thing

Idgaf abt greek mythology

[torpid crane]

to say that everyone going to hell regardless of anything isnt a new concept

[hard thistle]

This too. Eternal's Codex said that people who went to Hell would all meander the realm as their soul drained from their body and their body became the biomatter that would comprise demons.

[placid rock]

its just not true cause there were 3 judges of the underworld that would send you to the elysium fields if proven worthy

[past rover]

I need help for doom the dark ages about chapter 2 when can I play it?

[torpid crane]

elysium fields are part of the underworld in Greek mythology dude

[warped breach]

It makes sense to me that Hell and the demons would have no reason to invade or assimilate entire realms if everyone who died went to Hell regardless.

[hard thistle]

The issue is less with this being an unheard-of concept and more that the idea is really stupid from a narrative point of view. It breaks the narrative and renders the entire underlying logic of Hell's wars a bit blank, and it renders a lot of the conflicts in the series pointless.
It also ignores the fact that Jekkad was the first realm and that Davoth was motivated by the inevitable mortality of his people, which would not be a concern if they would just come back in Jekkad after dying.

[torpid crane]

power hungry, want more territory, blood for shit,
also theyre fuckin demons and pure evil

[placid rock]

what your saying is that it doesnt matter what they do that they go to the same place but there are 3 spots in the underworld that are vastly different with one being like a heaven for souls, so yes it does matter what they do in life because the judges say where to go because if you are bad you go deeper into TARTARUS

[torpid crane]

im just gonna assume its another plothole then that doomguy went to hell

[frail bloom]

Again this whole everyone goes to hell concept is stupid and damages the story for no good reason so lets all just ignore hugo and base our opinions on the game

[frail bloom]

He had a shard of devoth, remember

[warped breach]

I just assume since he's tied to Hell through Davoth's power that's why he went there

[real lynx]

Hugo said Sinners do

[frail bloom]

HUGO IS WRONGGGGGGG

WRONG WRONG WRONG

[real lynx]

Sinners =/= everyone

[thorny yarrow]

It's not a plothole. The Slayer's Testament says "He chose the path or perpetual torment." The Slayer has effectively damned himself.

[frail bloom]

The hell did the slayer do to deserve going to hell???

[hard thistle]

The Davoth thing pretty clearly explains it, IMO.

[frail bloom]

Killing demons????

[torpid crane]

yeah it might but until confirmed its only a theory

[real lynx]

Wrath is a sin 🤷‍♂️

[frail bloom]

Who is deciding thst he goes to hell?

[torpid crane]

who defines sins in doom

[vital rapids]

Hell in Doom isn't a "real" afterlife though, is it. It's a physically real place with real inhabants, that your soul can be harvested by/to.

It just seems really separate from the idea of wherever you might/not end up automatically for sinning

[thorny yarrow]

Or we can go on the infro we have right now!
#the-dark-ages message

[warped breach]

@hard thistle how did the Sentinels get to Immora if the only entrance was the Gate of Divum?

[frail bloom]

Plothole

[placid rock]

they followed the slayer

[hard thistle]

Hugo explicitly said that the Slayer went to Hell for killing a lot of things. "Merciless extermination." His position is that killing lots of demons is a sin and you go to Hell for it.
It should not have to be explained why this is a fundamentally inane idea.

[torpid crane]

I read it
I take that line as referring to doom 64 end tho

[placid rock]

yes

[hard thistle]

not quite
Codex entry 'Nekravol - Part 1'
Kalibas the Sightless Judge is a unique demon which occurs in Doom Eternal. An integral part of the Nekravol, it is a large brain with many tentacles which is protected by a force field and several eye-like turrets, known as the Eyes of Kalibas. It serves as a judge of the souls of humans which enter the Nekravol, determining which are suited for conversion into Argent energy. Those deemed worthy proceed deeper into the facility to be tortured until their spirits are broken. The rest are discarded to the Blood Swamps, an area of Hell.

and blood swamps lore from the doom wiki says:

The Blood Swamps extend for miles across Hell, ridden with disease and plagued by acid rain. In the center of the swampland, the Ingmore's Sanctum rises into the clouds as a solitary remnant of Hell's ancient past as the holy realm of Jekkad. From the sanctum, the Father once made decrees of wisdom and oversaw his many works. It is there, in the mausoleum of gods, that his life sphere is stored. The sanctity of the spheres is protected by an ancient ritual known as the Trial of Maligog.

During the Unholy Crusades, lone Night Sentinel warriors sometimes wandered into the swamps attempting to overcome the Trial and reach the rumored resting place of the Father. Argenta legends state that their spirits are bound eternally to the grounds of the Trial, waiting to witness it finally overcome.

[dark thunder]

It was his cruelty not his act or murder or both

[placid rock]

oof giant page lol

[real lynx]

I mean it still works. I assumed its cause of davoth's essence but you can work around this lore bit. Maybe the threshold of sin to go to hell is very high, so hell still needs to go to war to create more demons

[thorny yarrow]

Yeah, how would that not be damning himself? He made a choice then to remain in hell and stay there. Given the wording for the testament it's implying that he's damned himself by taking that action.

[vital rapids]

Did he say he went to the "real world hell" depicted in the games or just in a general sense?

[hard thistle]

Wrong Codex. You're looking for Fuel the Eternal Flame and History of the Sentinels. I'm talking about what happened in Hell pre-Nekravol.

[frail bloom]

GUYS WHY ARE WE TAKING HUGO SERIOUSLY HE WENT TO HELL CUZ OF DAVOTHS SHARD

THIS IS NOT BIBLICAL HELL, IT'S ALIEN

[warped breach]

The testament also implies that his soul is forever scorched by Hell if I remember correctly

[torpid crane]

Because that's stupid and his reason for staying in hell is objectively morally good

[real lynx]

Its still clearly inspired. See: upside down crosses everywhere

[hard thistle]

ight my bad

[frail bloom]

Yes but there's no angels and hell isn't an after life

It's more so the bible was influenced by hell and the maykers

[real lynx]

"Extra dimensional realm of torment full of the souls of the dammed and demons" sounds pretty biblical

[thorny yarrow]

"Scorched by the fires of hell and tainted beyond ascention" sounds an awful lot like being froever damned to me buddy.

[real lynx]

Well yes but hell is still an afterlife

[vital rapids]

This is exactly what I was trying to say, but you said it better

A real "afterlife" heaven and hell would not overlap with the things that are in physical reality in the game

[torpid crane]

it clearly is
doomguy literally died and went there
its an afterlife

[dark thunder]

consider this

the vagary was supposed to have boobies

[real lynx]

I saw some thing about followers of the maykr religion going to urdak

[frail bloom]

Yes but not in the sense that religion depicts it, he went cuz he jas a connection

[warped breach]

Wish we could see what some of these species looked like before Hell devoured them and changed their forms

Like the Agaddon Hunter or the Titans

[frail bloom]

Thank yu hugo for making things worse yet again

Yu little boofin

[real lynx]

You guys get way too heated over the lore of doom

[dark thunder]

It's all just id's interpretation of hell and heaven

[warped breach]

I'm just sitting here with popcorn tbh

[frail bloom]

Wow I invest time into a story I care abt shocker

[real lynx]

Like it'd be one thing if doom was super lore focused but its not

[frail bloom]

It is lore focused tf yu mean

Story is different

[torpid crane]

honestly I think a lot of times they just say random shit in regards to hell
like theres stuff in the hell knight codex talking about hell gods

[frail bloom]

It has mountains of lore pages

[dark thunder]

the lore is wildly inconsistent so just believe what u want

[real lynx]

Hell gods are probably just high ranking juiced demons

[torpid crane]

maybe but point is its still a random throwaway line that has nothing to do with anything

[vital rapids]

I still think doomguy would stomp kratos

[thorny yarrow]

It does just baffle me that someone can read plain words and somehow not draw the obvious conclusions from them. XD

If the words "Choosing the path of perpetual torment; his soul Blistered by the fires of hell, and tainted beyond ascension" exsist and somehow to you that is not an indication that the individual being spoken about has been damned to hell, then at that point it's a you problem. XD

[dark thunder]

someone said the term "gods" was thrown around loosely and better fit to describe powerful people rather than a creator or that the demon "gods" are more powerful rather than a creator

[torpid crane]

Kratos fans would pull shit from a book or something to explain why he can tear reality or some shit

[warped breach]

The witch did refer to the old one as her God multiple times and the Slayer easily wrecked him twice

So probably true

[torpid crane]

because i take it as referring to doom 64 and a speech made to sound cool and intimidating

[dark thunder]

exactly lol I mean those tentacle creatures dont even do anything in their realm aside from walk around and be dumb

[torpid crane]

don't sass me. I ain't do shit to you

[thorny yarrow]

I ain't sassing, and no you haven't. Just saying.

[dark thunder]

I don't think its meant to be taken too literally, It's just heaven and hell and those are afterlives

[vital rapids]

Thing is, killing OP beings with god like powers is kind of his jam, so doomguy dances around kratos Ssging his ass until he's a puddle.

2 minutes tops

[graceful lion]

he definitely cant

[torpid crane]

you understand that exact sentence applies to Kratos too right?

[warped breach]

Regardless of who kills who, they'd both just crawl out of Hell for a rematch

[graceful lion]

kratos is not some sort of superpowerful reality tearing superfuck, but i do think he would kill the slayer

[graceful lion]

slayer needed a ritual

[torpid crane]

I think a more interesting fight would be dante vs the slayer
bc Dante is definitely way way faster
but I think slayer is much much stronger

[warped breach]

The ritual just guided him, he woulda escaped himself

[graceful lion]

no

[torpid crane]

I also have this view tbh
its the vibe I got

[graceful lion]

kratos v slayer would still be a good fight, both of them have taken alot

[thorny yarrow]

He's found his own way out before.

[warped breach]

Yes, where else would he be going off to before they started the ritual

[dark thunder]

he would only be able to escape because he's super strong

[vital rapids]

https://tenor.com/view/oh-really-o-rly-owl-gif-7905924

[graceful lion]

he did not die in KDITD.

[dark thunder]

Remember when you go into to lake of blood and the slayer symbol is there and you come out of the coffin covered in blood It was just guiding him easier

[placid rock]

straight up i can hover like ironman now in snapmap and its awesome

[warped breach]

Honestly it seems the rules of Hell don't really apply to him considering he just shot the ferryman demanding payment

[graceful lion]

i feel like anyone could shoot the ferryman, its just that everyone else was a soul

[torpid crane]

tbh did anyone else even try

[warped breach]

I'm sure nobody else even had the strength

[torpid crane]

its a gun

[hard thistle]

This is essentially what I'm saying. The point of Doom's modern stuff here is that the Christian Heaven and Hell are stories inspired by the "real" things, Urdak and Jekkad. The notion of natural afterlifes in Doom, or at least connecting it to Hell, is incongruent with the universe.

[vital rapids]

This guy looks like he's been collecting coins. UPGRADE TIME boom

[warped breach]

Especially after dying

[dark thunder]

everyone else were ethereal spirits so they wouldnt be able to i think

[graceful lion]

everyone else is a soul, the slayer had a gun

the slayer cant empower his guns, that is just bullshit

[torpid crane]

why did the gun come to hell

[graceful lion]

true, why can he use his arsenal

why did he come back with his arsenal, wouldnt he be naked or smth, even in hell

[warped breach]

It was too scared of the Slayer to leave his side

[graceful lion]

it is a piece of metal.

[warped breach]

It is a joke

[graceful lion]

true

[warped breach]

I theorize the Preator suit has pocket dimensions that he stores his arsenal in

[astral ravine]

oh god, I've seen the act man review. I thought it was bad but NOT that bad

[warped breach]

That's how he quickswaps and switches weapons on the fly

[thorny yarrow]

I get the sense there is an intrinsic power to the slayer. They came with him simply because they are his.

[warped breach]

And carries an entire arsenal

[astral ravine]

gave me a headache I stopped midway

[graceful lion]

if a man shoots himself, would his gun come with him?

[thorny yarrow]

Probably not cause most people aren't the Slayer.

[graceful lion]

it feels like everyone from the slayer's death room is a corporeal form

[thorny yarrow]

Yeah same.

[placid rock]

-_- im gonna recreate a scene from iron man 1 in doom snapmap. since i now have the ability to do so

[gritty matrix]

Some 1993 doom mods might disagree

[thorny yarrow]

I love that the second time the Slayer sees Serrat it's after he's broken out of MAykr control. I feel like Serrat could tell cause unlike the first time they meet up, this time Serrat lowers its head for a pet.

[hard thistle]

This is an important detail. The ferryman was not demanding payment from the souls, they walked past no problem. It only demanded payment from the Slayer, the only physical being trying to pass.

[astral ravine]

he's just contradicting himself in almost every point he say I'm just incredibly baffled.
Like, he doesn't like multiplayer in doom but complains there's no multiplayer in tda. Why is that a problem? isn't it a good thing multiplayer is scrapped so the team can focus on more content in the campaign? if you're going to allocate resource for a mid tier game option just allocate it to something people like: the main campaign. Also he complains about the story not making sense but he is not interested in the story at the same time. Smartest critique everyone

[thorny yarrow]

I feel like Serrat recognized something was off about him initially, but now he can tell he's himself.

[graceful lion]

people will find anything to bitch about

[dark thunder]

the game is called DOOM assume the worst will happen

[placid rock]

🤦‍♂️

[gritty matrix]

I feel the story is ok but nothing incredible

[thorny yarrow]

Okay so I'm playing the dragon level where you fly around the command station. This was a level I particularly noticed the quietness of the music in the ambience. It is SO much better now.

[cobalt fog]

What are y’all’s hopes for the dlc?

[frail bloom]

Ye it's alr, it might be better in dlc tho

[gritty matrix]

Is there because is supposed to be there but isn't the main focus, just as karmack wanted.

[cobalt fog]

I’m hoping for 1 or 2 new weapons

[thorny yarrow]

Argenta Civil war baby. Gimme gimme. Let me see the betrayal.

[dark thunder]

story and universes need to evolve that boomer 90s take doesnt apply anymore imo

[frail bloom]

Thira dies for da emotional impact,
pain elemental and archvile,
6-8 levels,
no mech, no dragon,
Music with more references

[dark thunder]

4 levels

[frail bloom]

And this too

[pulsar granite]

I want the first

[cobalt fog]

In the beta of the dark ages you had a throwable wraith energy axe like how the marauder had an argent energy axe

[dark thunder]

We will def see Marok die since during the ritual to bring the slayer back, it pans to valen when he steps on the pentagra

[frail bloom]

My guy

[thorny yarrow]

All of this except I am selfish and very much want Thira to remain alive just cause I like her, and I still want mech and dragon. XD

[dark thunder]

the problem with whoever kills thira is gonna be insanely strong if they absorb that wraith soul

[frail bloom]

Nah I think of doom as attack on titsn where characters ee knoe and love die

I know marok will die but he's done nothing important so far so we need some emotional beats

Kill thira

KILL

[pulsar granite]

g

KILL THIRA

[frail bloom]

Lol

[gritty matrix]

Thira might sacrifice herself

[dark thunder]

No one is safe dude they wanted to kill the freaking intern and valen

[thorny yarrow]

Oh I know

[cobalt fog]

So I hope we get that and the hidden weapon currently in the game

[pulsar granite]

Chat I play with sharpening at 20

[thorny yarrow]

I know no one is safe. The story of the sentinels is a tragedy. But I will be genuinely sad if Thira dies. XD

[frail bloom]

Yes that's a good thing

[dark thunder]

I think if she was alive she prob would have been at the siege of immora

[frail bloom]

KILL

[gritty matrix]

It's a hard sell to keep her alive and then doesn't appear in the other games

Unless they retconn once again

[frail bloom]

KILL HER AND MAKE US FEEL AWFUL

[thorny yarrow]

My personal selfish hope is that she is put in some kind of stasis or hide's in some eternity. So she can come back in a later title. But I know that's probably not happening.

However that could be it's own terrible thing. XD

[dark thunder]

we really need to see the wretch though

[gritty matrix]

Isn't Samur the wretch

[graceful lion]

no

[frail bloom]

Hugo don't listen to this guy we all want her dead as hell or tortured forever

[dark thunder]

I think it's very possible/likely that she's hidden somewhere, I think she exists with hugo's idea of making a woman doom slayer and she's kinda sorta like that

[thorny yarrow]

The wretch likely doesn't come into play until the slayer is trapped in hell again. Cause that character probably appears somewhere along his eons long crusade tat almost destroyed hell.

[barren shell]

Why do I feel like Thira’s consciousness turned into that blue ball at the final bit in the area at the end of blood swamps (don’t remember name)

[frail bloom]

Yez, I am mentally stable

[dark thunder]

[pulsar granite]

I hate thira

[graceful lion]

yeah, the wretch gives him a seperate piece of armor, different than what is usually known for the uac, which documented the praetor suit and said it was of unknown origin

[astral ravine]

I notice how people criticize this game having a more narrative focused approach because they look back at 2016 and praise it for its more environmental storytelling approach but they're forgetting that that game is just an exposition dump machine.. And its just samuel hayden telling you to go from point A to point B.
"Ah but you know 2016 was basically a fuck you to storytelling because doomguy isn't following orders. TDA doomguy is just a maykr slave"
my brother in christ, he was following all of samuel hayden's task aside from retrieving the argent filter task. If anything doomguy is more of a rebel here than he was in previous games. Bro was so mad he freed himself from brainwashing.

[frail bloom]

I don't hate her at all but she should die for the impact

[pulsar granite]

Tru

[frail bloom]

Hugo confirmed thst there's no romance anyway so we good

[torpid crane]

I wanna see the wretch

[dark thunder]

the wretch is a demon or was if he's still alive

[astral ravine]

her and her wraith powers will probably have some use in the dlc stories

[torpid crane]

has to be by the end of tda
no praetor suit yet

[frail bloom]

Ye thr fricking 3 min scene where the doomslayer is just in his office listening to him yap

[frail bloom]

To me, the praetor suit is a plan b replication of the slayers original suit

[thorny yarrow]

All we've seen of her and their interactions is that she actually treats him like an individual. She's the only sentinel to do so after his empowering and brain washing. I think the slayer appreciates that.

[frail bloom]

Yes exactly! So kill her off in sad fashion and make us all miserable

[astral ravine]

the slayer sees her as a fellow comrade in arms, along with valen and king novik

[frail bloom]

Slayer loses everything yet again

[torpid crane]

I feel like the most emotional reaction to an attachment youre gonna get from the slayer is when serrat died

idt he's gonna give any more of a fuck than normal if thira dies

[frail bloom]

It wouldn't be jixt thira it would be everyone around him

[placid rock]

no i think thira he would be pissed if she died

[harsh egret]

or make a doom spinoff game with Thira as the protagonist

[placid rock]

or play eternal with mods that turn you to thira

[pulsar granite]

Chat everyone who likes thira is a guner

[dark thunder]

dlc is gonna kick ass with no covid getting in the way this time

[slender night]

Watch some other disease start to pop up just to spite you

[thorny yarrow]

It's clear he does care about her as an individual, and he certainly appreciated her help and trust. She is the one thing he has been seen actually gently hadling in any way.

I think its safe to say, he'll be pissed if she dies.

[dark thunder]

then doom would be real

[harsh egret]

just reminded me of when Hugo said that he thought about having a female slayer at one point, so although the chances are low, they arent zero imo

[pulsar granite]

Would be a dream

[placid rock]

theres a mod to have female slayer too lmao

[harsh egret]

i mean an actual game bruh

[slender night]

We've had one in a (very bad) movie, close enough

[harsh egret]

all im saying is i think theres a world that happens

[dark thunder]

get ready for the brainless zombies to call the game woke if they make a thira game

[harsh egret]

im not saying i would want that, but i also think they COULD pull it off lol

[placid rock]

the new one made the old one look better 💀

[vital rapids]

So it’s canon there’s a female slayer then

[slender night]

It didn't really have to, the old one was class

[frail bloom]

Guys what hdr settings do yu put on to make it look real nice

[dark thunder]

I think thira is the result of this idea

[placid rock]

not to be specific but ||someone here adores that movie||

[harsh egret]

well yeah but jokes aside i feel like thira gets introduced in this game with her abilities and her melee weapon and stuff like she COULD in theory work as a protagonist ngl
how would it affect the doom franchise as a whole is a diff topic

[dark thunder]

cause she got powers now

[harsh egret]

more or less what im thinking yes

[lavish kindle]

chuds getting upset at Doomgirl will be extra hilarious considering you're always in a suit of armor and virtually never speak. It's an entirely inconsequential choice to people with brain cells

[gritty matrix]

Speak for yourself

[slender night]

When you tell them there's been a Doomgirl since 1999 they will shit and piss themselves

[gritty matrix]

I might get secretly aroused by a female slayer

[placid rock]

yeah it really makes no difference whether doomslayer is a guy or gal cause in the end it would be the same character killing demons

[astral ravine]

I already get aroused by the classic doom cyberdemon's ass

[harsh egret]

oh trust me if they announce the new slayer is a gal the world is gonna explode

[dark thunder]

"OH NO THERE'S TWO OF THEM NOW" - the demons

[vital rapids]

Imagine a game that gave TDA haters everything they wanted, the whole shebang, but Thira the strident leader as the protagonist

[placid rock]

i hope it does i honestly hope it does to cut down the chud lmao

[astral ravine]

I'm pretty sure everyone here has at least tried punching classic cyberdemon's ass at least once

[dark thunder]

icon of sin cheeks

the old one cheeks

[thorny yarrow]

Wonder what they think of samus. A historic gaming badass in a suit of armor that largely disguises her gender, and it fucking awesome.

[vital rapids]

Who doesn’t

[placid rock]

https://tenor.com/view/icon-of-sin-brb-gif-23688717

[dark thunder]

BRO they did not have to be this detailed

that gif is amazing btw "brb"

[placid rock]

i know its disturbing lmao

[astral ravine]

also, I honestly prefer the brutal doom icon of sin design over what we got in eternal

[slender night]

We never got to see them 😭

[dark thunder]

U might be able to when he's going up into the portal

[gritty matrix]

I mean they quite need to. If they make a model without ass is going to be wrong

[slender night]

I thought by "the old one" you meant, you know, the old one

[dark thunder]

chat went from talkin bout the afterlife in doom to cthulu cheeks what is this bro

[gritty matrix]

You can kinda hide genitals but no ass mess your anatomy

[placid rock]

he doesnt even take dumps why does it need a ass LMAO

[lavish kindle]

not our fault cthulu is draggin' a wagon

[frail bloom]

The duality of man

[slender night]

Asses have more usage than for shitting

[thorny yarrow]

The Doomality of man.

[harsh egret]

just 5 mins ago we were talking about thira as a protagonist and it somehow turned into cthulhu cheeks

[dark thunder]

[gritty matrix]

Because glutes are core. It's fundamental anatomy parts.

[astral ravine]

if I'm not slapping cthulu cheeks in the afterlife I'm not dying

[delicate grotto]

God, that’d be hilarious.

[slender night]

Reactors are gonna lose it when they go to biology class

[placid rock]

not in a demon X3 the demons can have corpses as bodies for all they care lmao

[harsh egret]

id be fine with it tbh, but i can already see ppl reaction lol

[delicate grotto]

I could definitely see a spinoff centered around Thira though. I would like one honestly, seems like there’s some cool stuff to be explored there.

[slender night]

Get your heads out of the gutter, it's for posture 😭

[frail bloom]

No kill her

[lavish kindle]

honestly shout out to everyone here for having a chance to be weird about Thira and instead choosing to analyze the ass cheeks of a lovecraftian horror

[harsh egret]

yup

[dark thunder]

its not everday u see cthulu ass cheeks

[delicate grotto]

Same. I can just imagine how some corners of the gaming landscape would react.

[gritty matrix]

It's hardly about functionality but more about what we perceive as powerful or "right" anatomically

[delicate grotto]

Let me rephrase. Most corners. Unfortunately.

[dark thunder]

Thira is too cool to kill off already she has the soul of a freaking wraith

[hollow sandal]

We can make it possible

[gritty matrix]

For example we perceive as strong a figure with large shoulders and traps

[placid rock]

a powerful creature doesnt look like a oiled up goatman ready for fun times lmao

[dark thunder]

would be so cool to get a scary ass goat demon creature

[gritty matrix]

Cyberdemon and nuicon looks pretty powerful to me

[dark thunder]

The real depictions of demons would be sick as enemies

[placid rock]

gladiator?

[vital rapids]

Scary ass achieved

[hollow sandal]

I think they mean baphomet

[delicate grotto]

Hugo said he’s considered a female Slayer of sorts. I could see Thira being a segue into that storyline.

[placid rock]

id say the stalker imp is a real depiction of what a demon could look like

[dark thunder]

more like baphomet I think

that shit is scary like I want demons that will make me shit myself when I see them

[harsh egret]

and he mentioned her playstyle would be smth agressive and fast or smth like that, seems to fit Thira ngl

[delicate grotto]

Definitely.

[harsh egret]

not that the slayer isnt fast and agressive but yk

[vital rapids]

Peter Jackson Balrog type deal

[harsh egret]

a different type of "fast and agressive"

[dark thunder]

some lesser key of solomon type shit

[placid rock]

personally if i see a giant goatheaded thing with a bunch of fur... im not going to be afraid o.o goats look always cute to me

[frail bloom]

I'm making some of those rn as a concept lol

[vital rapids]

Goats can be surprisingly troubling

[gritty matrix]

They had a giant goat head in a wall and was regarded as one of the worst bosses

[vivid hearth]

Do you need all the gold in the game to max out everything

[dark thunder]

u must post

[placid rock]

no but most of it

[frail bloom]

I have, I've been sharing them with hato

[gritty matrix]

Believe me credible characters needs to be anthropomorphic to click with humans.

[vivid hearth]

Ok

[placid rock]

if you want 100% you need to get everything

[dark thunder]

I like the revenant in the art channel, the mouth stomach is very demon like and scary

[frail bloom]

I'll show yu the caco
#artwork message

[placid rock]

i have a few demon design but.. no idea if they are good

[frail bloom]

Most different caco yet

But I think would work real well

[vital rapids]

There are other ways to go with human psychology. Twisted mixtures of sex organs with aggression do well per giger etc

[dark thunder]

that is utterly terrifying and would totally work

[gritty matrix]

Giger alien was antropomorfe

[delicate grotto]

Vassagos are a cool concept that depict more traditional, demonic creatures. Too bad they’re all dead by the time the modern trilogy begins. Would love to see a modernized version of them in another Doom game. But, if Aggadons came back, so can they.

[gritty matrix]

Two arms, two legs, stands

[frail bloom]

I got even more from just fodder lol
#artwork message
#artwork message

It's 2016 like

[dark thunder]

really like these, the one with its head above its body is some nightmare stuff

[vital rapids]

Yep, there’s plenty of the other thing in his art, including for the Ridley films. Also primal fears - snakes, spiders

[gritty matrix]

Spiders works well but even in hellraiser the machinist was partially human

[frail bloom]

Yup that was the intention, and I haven't made the most unsettling one yet

And it'll be huge

[dark thunder]

u doing another fodder or a heavy

[frail bloom]

Rn I'm doing the mancubus, I haven't gotten to superheavies yet

[dark thunder]

I will be on the lookout in the art channel godspeed 🫡

[gritty matrix]

Also with pinkie you prefer most? Classic, nuDoom or TDA?

[frail bloom]

Hmmmm nudoom

It could be topped tho

[gritty matrix]

I prefer classic pinkie and also I must say classic caco

[sonic turret]

What about Doom 3?

[gritty matrix]

I didn't play it honestly

[sonic turret]

You don't know what you're missing.

[graceful lion]

bruh how tf did i not notice this already, his cutscene in the chapter after he died is a reference to doom 2016's intro

[gritty matrix]

Never caught my interest since I understood was more of a survival/ atmosphere game than a chaotic shooter

[hollow sandal]

I wonder why they put that there of all places

And how ||zombie slayer || is not a skin

[gritty matrix]

It was a nice touch

[wooden leaf]

150% speed feels insane 😭

[sonic turret]

Well I was corrected the other day when I called it a Survival Horror, apparently its an "Action Horror" because you run around with actual military grade weapons and not just hanging on by your wits and whatever makeshift improvised weaponry you can either find or knock together.

[graceful lion]

yeah thas bullshit we need it as a skin

[gritty matrix]

Uhm I think it's still a survival horror

[graceful lion]

it would be a nice touch if the slayer was also zombified when ur last playthrough was during that chapter

it would also be a nice touch if the tether was destroyed after that chapter,

[gritty matrix]

Even in resident evil you got military weapons

[gritty matrix]

Isn't like off?

[graceful lion]

no, he completely got rid of it

[placid rock]

#artwork message this is one of my demon designs, it was the only one i could find i took a picture of

very old

[graceful lion]

why didnt the maykrs make a bunch of other detonators and throw it at him later on, are they stupid?

[placid rock]

made that when i was like 10 or 12

[graceful lion]

surely they had more than enough power when thye discovered argent

[frail bloom]

It's a grunt with an axe, yu kinda predicted it tbh

[sonic turret]

Well technically all of the Doom games are survival games, since you're trying to avoid getting killed. Less jumpscares in modern Doom though.

[gritty matrix]

The detonator is in the armour

[placid rock]

the creature is actually 20 feet tall 😂

[frail bloom]

Bruh

[placid rock]

yeah i liked to make gigantic creatures lol

[graceful lion]

yeah but surely they could make a not-armor version

[gritty matrix]

I connect survival horror to resources scarcity

[hard thistle]

good point, almost as if it couldn't kill him in the first place huh

[graceful lion]

because it looks like the detonator is some kind of battery, becuase it was the thing controlling him

[graceful lion]

if one knocks him out, multiple could probably kill him

[vital rapids]

Was anyone else unable to 100% chapter 6 because of a secret behind a plank wall you can’t break through? I just found out it was supposed to have a shield bash icon :/

[graceful lion]

doomguy isnt invincible, normal demons hurt him, his armor isnt unbreakable

[placid rock]

im gonna see if i can make a really cool demon design using the different models across the games

[sonic turret]

Well, you definitely get that in some classic Doom mods and in the Quake series, however in the modern Doom games, resources are relatively easy, perhaps too easy to farm.

[hard thistle]

he hasn't been hurt from a normal demon since he became the slayer

[graceful lion]

so you think wehn we get hurt by demons the slayer doesnt get hurt?

[hard thistle]

maby, or maby not

[graceful lion]

oh of course, gameplay reasons

[gritty matrix]

The issue is to find someone that is able and willing to deliver the hit to the doom slayer without getting killed

[hard thistle]

when did he get hurt by demons?

[graceful lion]

that is also true

[sonic turret]

I think it's the demons that get hurt.

[graceful lion]

when u get hit by demons in the game?, or is that just for gameplay reasons or whatever

what about the doom 2016 cutscenes, they have animations for the demons killing the slayer, one of them has a baron of hell ripping him in half

[gritty matrix]

Yes let's say counting bullets isn't what you usually do in a doom game, whatever is classic or the new ones

[jovial bough]

yeah

[hard thistle]

gameplay reasons

[vital rapids]

He’s not invulnerable, he’s very powerful, implacable and good at fighting

[hard thistle]

which none are cannon

[graceful lion]

would that also imply slayer to demon animations are not canon?

[graceful lion]

literally this

[hard thistle]

no cuz that's how the game progresses

[graceful lion]

if acid could hurt him, and his armor, then so can physical damage
"HURR DURR ITS COSMIC SUPER ACID", please, shut up

[graceful lion]

but he doesnt need to go through any of the animations to go through the game

[placid rock]

its canon that he can still die just like anyone else

now whether he stays dead thats another story

[hard thistle]

but he needs to kill em, doesn't matter how

[graceful lion]

yes, if the argenta were to go up against him, and they all shot him up, he wouldnt just fucking survive

[sonic turret]

Not quite like anyone else, he's a bit more robust after having gone through the divinity machine.

[graceful lion]

if an atlan picked him up and shoulder blasted him, he would be fucking evaporated

[placid rock]

i really doubt the slayer would let that happen 💀

[graceful lion]

well i doubt he has the strength to overpower an atlan

[stoic sleet]

Its very possible it could happen if the atlan trie

[sonic turret]

Although the weight that he's lifting on the Fortress of Doom doesn't seem to be very heavy, considering.

[graceful lion]

"its just there for show"

[vital rapids]

But, he is the ultimate super warrior. So it could smoosh him, but would probably get turned into scrap instead

[graceful lion]

ehh no

[placid rock]

i agree its possible but i doubt he is just gonna let you punch him like hes gonna do something thats gonna get him out of there and just disable the atlan from riping his way inside

[graceful lion]

m0no said the icon would likely just squish the slayer like a bug if he was underneath its feet

[vital rapids]

He has Chuck Norris power, not Superman power

[graceful lion]

what if he gets grabbed and crushed

[placid rock]

again that goes back to wether he will stay dead

[graceful lion]

he wont stay dead as long as someone revives him

[placid rock]

cause at this point i think its proven hes just too angry to die

[vital rapids]

Yeah I think so. The way this pans out is slayer wins somehow through aggression, skill, resourcefulness, strength reflexes. He cannot tank it like a Kryptonian in any way

[pulsar granite]

Should I set my in game sharpening to 5 or keep it to 20

[graceful lion]

he cant just bypass the normal rules of life, in the doom universe, it seems not even the power of a being like davoth could just avoid death on its own

[hard thistle]

"m0no said it, so it must be true" ahh

[sonic turret]

I mean we can speculate all we like, but it's important to based our understanding on the facts and what's apparent.

[placid rock]

even without the sentinels he wouldve found a way out of the underworld just like he found a way out of hell into the sentinels

[graceful lion]

m0no is the most knowledgable out of all of us, so i trust him

[sonic turret]

I was about to say the same thing.

[pulsar granite]

M0no doesn't know how strong the slayer actually is in the lore

I mean this guy said he can't kill demons with his fists. Like what the actual fuck

[hard thistle]

m0no is going off the same lore that we all are

[graceful lion]

did he?

[pulsar granite]

I remember so

[stoic sleet]

@hard thistle

[graceful lion]

you misunderstood him, he said that he punches in eternal like a wet paper towel, like normal zombies

[vital rapids]

Not bypass laws of physical reality with magic godmode. Bypass them by fighting well

[frail bloom]

I don't think he said that, bc the slayer literally rips off demon heads so he dan definetly beat weaker demons to a pulp

[placid rock]

in doom classic you are straight up able to kill demons with just fists. and i guarantee that the slayer had to go to hand to hand combat a lot whenever he was out of ammo in hell

[frail bloom]

It's just gameplay

[pulsar granite]

Dickriders

[sonic turret]

How do you know that he's the most knowledgeable? He's just getting his information from the same place as anyone else, he just decided to record it in a book.

[hard thistle]

yeah cuz they reworked the gameplay around the punching

[pulsar granite]

New enemy for dlc chat

[stoic sleet]

Imma eternally glaze mono

[placid rock]

hey i agree with you

[stoic sleet]

Mono is the goat icl

[vital rapids]

Yes, but extreme/super strength is not in question. We all know about this, Just whether he is invulnerable

[graceful lion]

because he knows and remembers the majority of the lore, but we dont

[graceful lion]

definitely vulnerable, tda confirms it, a couple times

[hard thistle]

we can just look it up lmao

[placid rock]

hes not invulnerable, but i dont think you can always keep him down, sooner or later he always comes back

[vital rapids]

Unstoppable force, for sure

[placid rock]

indeed

[graceful lion]

well, only doomwiki.org ofc, fandom wikis are all bullshit

[graceful lion]

temporarily stoppable

[sonic turret]

Maybe YOU don't, you can only speak for yourself. Either way, if someone asks M0no a question, it's likely that he goes straight to his notes for the answer, because he has it all written down. He most likely doesn't remember everything, at least no more or less than anyone else.

[stoic sleet]

Honestly i feel ahzrak would’ve completely won if he hadnt given doomslayer the adrenaline rage boost

[hard thistle]

I HAVE a code for the Doom Slayer Verdant skin

[frail bloom]

No he usually posts codex entries as a source so he likely pulls up the actual source

[hard thistle]

twice, space acid and fighting a demon prince empowered with a fucking wraith (n still beats him)

[placid rock]

poor ||serrat||

[graceful lion]

ahzrak definitely seemed to have overpowered him for alot of the fight

[hard thistle]

ion use fan wiki

[vital rapids]

But in the final analysis, inexorable. And brave because it’s real combat that can hurt

[graceful lion]

ok good

[graceful lion]

yeah, or very extreme power, like the maykr detonator

[sonic turret]

Either way, if you enjoy a particular franchise and engage with the lore out of passion, you tend to remember most of it, it's just that some people have about ten different franchises that they like and their commitment is spread.

[hard thistle]

real

[hard thistle]

I never said this.

[vital rapids]

And commitments beyond no lifing lore, so people who do that well are a resource to us all

[hollow sandal]

Lore master

[vital rapids]

https://tenor.com/view/negan-bat-angry-people-are-a-resource-money-on-the-table-gif-25391799

[hard thistle]

What I maybe said was the Slayer can't effortlessly tear Archviles apart or punch Titans to death.

[graceful lion]

what about an atlan, if it grabbed him, would he be able to escape?

[stoic sleet]

And thats true

[graceful lion]

slayer durability test 🙏

[vital rapids]

Ah but now you’re getting beyond invulnerable squish resistance into extreme strength

[sonic turret]

The thing to remember is that one the one hand there's lore and on the other hand, there's gameplay, which might allow you to do things that aren't always written in the lore, and plot armour as you'd have it.

[vital rapids]

And the slayer does have extreme strength, right

Just not invulnerability

[sonic turret]

We know he has superhuman strength, but that can mean a lot of things.

[hard thistle]

seeing as titans can go toe to toe with em, n doomslayer fought for eons in hell in killing the biggest titan that ever existed, I'd say yes

[sonic turret]

Spiderman has superhuman strength, as does Superman, but they're both on different levels.

[stoic sleet]

Hugo js basically like “the doomslayer killed a completely normal and unchanged chicken compared to our real world ones except the chicken is outeversal”

[hard thistle]

I have a lot of the lore memorized on account of reading many of the Codex entries more times than I can count. Sometimes you guys will ask me something and I'll have it off the top of my head (i.e. "was Davoth's power stolen?" "what is the Transfiguration?" "Is Doomguy's Earth the modern Earth?")

Other times I will first refer to the Codex pages, then if I need more info I will refer to my guide and see where I got that info.

[gritty matrix]

I trust decino when it comes to doom stuff. But he's more into technical stuff

[hollow sandal]

Decino says he's not interested TDA xd

[vital rapids]

But, if the slayer brute forced the finger of an atlan open a bit to escape, this would be plausible in line with known attribute. Tanking an Atlan stomp wouldn’t

[hard thistle]

tda ain't for everyone

[graceful lion]

he did not kill "the biggest titan", size isnt everything, i would say the guardian of the souls in the blood swamps after you defeat maligog's trails, is larger than the icon, the icon is just the more powerful, and he had to use a super powerful one time use sword to kill him

[hard thistle]

The biggest Titan doesn't mean most powerful.

[graceful lion]

yes

[hard thistle]

NEVER said this.

[hard thistle]

I did not say you did.

[hard thistle]

he did kill the biggest titan, as stated in lore (or I'm remember wrong)

[graceful lion]

what did you imply by "the biggest titan"? just curious

[frail bloom]

Honestly the skeletons in forsaken planes look like the vassago skeleton
@uneven dragon

[graceful lion]

you are remembering wrong, maligog is still alive, and he is larger than the icon, he is just a protector

[hard thistle]

2016 lore, the giant corpse we see

[sonic turret]

As far as I know, Maligog is the biggest, who's still alive.

[graceful lion]

he did not kill it with his bare hands, the testaments just said he fought with it and won, its very vague

[frail bloom]

#screenshots message
Granted they're really big
@uneven dragon

[gritty matrix]

I saw only classic doom videos from him, but the all point is he's focusing on a niche to avoid competition

[vital rapids]

I see killing titans as in line with slayer’s normal “super aggressive action hero” skills, I don’t think it suggests anything more

[hard thistle]

never said bare hands, but he did kill it without an atlan or dragon or bfg

Also yes 2016 never says the Slayer killed the Great One with his bare hands.

[graceful lion]

this was never stated

[hard thistle]

he's not the biggest one

[hollow sandal]

Fair

[hard thistle]

what was never stated, that he killed it?

All that is said is that the Slayer and Great One fought and the Great One fell.

[graceful lion]

it was never stated what he USED to kill it, you cant just assume

[hollow sandal]

The lore mastah

[hard thistle]

exactly, no mention of atlan or dragon or bfg or crucible, as far as we know he was fighting in hell for eons alone with guns

[graceful lion]

and also the testaments are written by demons, fearmongering basically, so its just to dickride him more, not saying he didnt kill the great one

[graceful lion]

oh shut up

[vital rapids]

Could have tripped on shoelaces

[sonic turret]

Who told you that?

[graceful lion]

alright now that i know this guy is not worth arguing with, he's also blocked

[hard thistle]

you assume allot of things, m0no too, but I can't have that privilege?

[hard thistle]

the lore.

[pulsar granite]

I'm gonna try to get steam deck's fsr working on my pc to get more fps in tda, wish me luck

[sonic turret]

Where exactly, where are you getting that information?

[hard thistle]

"I have no argument" ahh

[graceful lion]

m0no has the same information we have, it just said that the titan and the slayer fought, and the titan fell, hugo also said that the slayer fought the titan with his bare hands, not gonna take his word for it i see?

[hard thistle]

2016

[frail bloom]

Ye I believe he had his guns too

Except maybe he did have his shield

[hard thistle]

ion know wtf hugo said, BUT I have a role for what hugo said. Since he is the game director of the recent games he's obviously above m0no in what like goes in the game, if what hugo says contradicts the lore/codex, I ignore it. If not, I take it as fact.

[pulsar granite]

Wait this shit doesn't have frame gen

[hard thistle]

ik this gonna piss u off

[graceful lion]

ok so the slayer kills titans with his bare hands then, why did he need the atlan in tda?

[hollow sandal]

Wait really?

[pulsar granite]

Gamescope's fsr is only upscaling sadly

[frail bloom]

He can't fight the titan with his bare hands tho, he didn't for the icon and as fidget said before, I believe ha had guns plus some artifact in hell

[hard thistle]

donno

[graceful lion]

oh wow!, its almost as if what hugo said was fucking bullshit!

[hard thistle]

icon is special cuz it could only go down with the crucible

[placid rock]

so im planning this demon design and wanted ideas how you all would like to see a new demon, im trying to take inspiration from each of the demons to make this one so any suggestions of what demon it should closely relate to?

[hard thistle]

isn't contradicted in the lore, so how is it?

[graceful lion]

there are 4 titans, who can only go down with a crucible.

[graceful lion]

but that part is also bs because the great one was one of those titans

[hard thistle]

didn't count how many

[hard thistle]

source

[topaz pasture]

Not all that game related but Is anyone here who ordered the dark ages helmet still waiting for theirs? I ordered mine in April.

[frail bloom]

Ye but like fidget said, he needed a mech for basic ass titans, again, it's way more plausible that he used his guns and some powerful artifact to take down one of the most powerful stated demons in hell mind yu. His bare hands is just not feasible

[bold nacelle]

cuz its game

[graceful lion]

m0no's book, which comes from the lore

[hard thistle]

I want it from the ingame lore/codex, not a fan book

[bold nacelle]

@hard thistle what are cacodemons where do they come from?

[vital rapids]

Please do not just make sense
It's a low blow

[foggy breach]

🍿

[bold nacelle]

lol. theres an easy answer but no one wants to hear it.

[hard thistle]

maby well get our official answer some day

[frail bloom]

Mandibles from a baron of hell to start

[graceful lion]

m0no, was the great one one of the titans that "needed a crucible"?, or one of the super powerful ones?

[sonic turret]

I mean we defeated the Icon in Doom to with rockets or whatever, something obviously happened between Doom 2 and Eternal to buff the Icon. I'm guessing that the Slayer could've beaten him using his mech though.

[placid rock]

i really wish there was a doom art general channel so people with questions like mine can not be swallowed by chat

[placid rock]

oo i like that

[graceful lion]

also cite your source m0no

[pseudo rampart]

Did you forget the part where he lunges like 50 feet in the air to stab it with his crucible

[foggy breach]

or a separate channel for lore questions

[hard thistle]

thx

[placid rock]

indeed

[sonic turret]

However, the difference is that this time the Slayer needed to free the soul of Marok.

[frail bloom]

Maybe maybe not idk

[bold nacelle]

it doesnt state it but i also dont know where ds would hace access to his atlan after being locked out of argent dnur.

the fight between him and the great one took place after the betrayal

did bro get locked in there with a mech is that what youre trying to say lmfao

[frail bloom]

The fight also took a long while too I think

[graceful lion]

ohh ok holdon, so all titans are "great ones"

[frail bloom]

Someone post those testaments for us to see plz

[bold nacelle]

no

[graceful lion]

its just when u dont have something like a crucible u cant kill one easily

[bold nacelle]

ok brb ill get it

[graceful lion]

that is literally waht m0no's guide says, wdym "no"

Titans, also known as the Great Ones, are gargantuan demonic monsters, typically
humanoid in appearance. They are revered within Hell for their immense power and capability of
destruction. Titans are typically utilized within Hell as slaves and warriors.

[slender night]

I don't think it's a fair comparison for a fight where he's armored against a fight where you could easily blow up his brain

[pseudo rampart]

You can “kill” titans but all it does is send them back to hell. They simply just come back from hell unless they’re killed with a crucible

[graceful lion]

the crucible is basically a stasis chamber

[pseudo rampart]

^

[graceful lion]

specifically the blade, it makes sure their asses never return

[pseudo rampart]

The crucible doesn’t even kill then either it just prevents them from coming back

[graceful lion]

that must fucking hurt for the titans, i kinda feel bad

[bold nacelle]

None could stand before the horde but the Doom Slayer. Despair spread before him like a plague, striking fear into the shadow-dwellers, driving them to deeper and darker pits. But from the depths of the abyss rose The Great One, a champion mightier than all who had come before. The Titan, of immeasurable power and ferocity. He strode upon the plain and faced the Doom Slayer, and a mighty battle was fought on the desolate plains. The Titan fought with the fury of the countless that had fallen at the Doom Slayer's hand, but there fell the Titan, and in his defeat, the shadow horde was routed.

[graceful lion]

imagine having a gigantic super 1000 degree knife in your heart or brain for eons

[pseudo rampart]

Afaik the only way to actually kill a titan is by destroying hell itself

[graceful lion]

that destroys all demons

[frail bloom]

Oh boi we need a game on this

Good thing I'm making concepts abt it rn

[bold nacelle]

wrong.

[pseudo rampart]

Yes

[graceful lion]

the slayer simply stopped all demons from going to other planets, by killing davoth

[sonic turret]

Exactly

[wild rose]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Doom/s/uwtNZvH5bz

This has to be the shittiest take I have seen

[bold nacelle]

theyre called ancients. not great ones. there is one specific demon titan called the great one.

[graceful lion]

@hard thistle are not all titans great ones?

[wild rose]

It doesn't make sense. Demons are literally afraid of Doomguy. If they were immortal they wouldn't fear him

[slender night]

Maybe it's cuz dying kinda hurts idk

[untold zodiac]

Doom Dark Ages Freezing

5060 TI and more than enough to run the game
I have to run it on the 576.28 driver to work but the screen gets pixelated but if I run the newest drivers the game freezes after 5-10 minutes
Please tell me there’s a fix and give me a list of instructions on what to do

[wild rose]

Great One is a very specific titan tho

[slender night]

I imagine having your spine ripped out would kind of be an ouchie moment you'd want to avoid

[sonic turret]

The point is that he still came back, because he wasn't killed with the Crucible sword.

[pseudo rampart]

[wild rose]

I'm having an attack reading this shit

[slender night]

Maybe he was just revived and not buffed

[graceful lion]

its what the testament says its name is, we dont know much else

[pulsar granite]

Ok no this is useless all I was able to do was use fsr 1 and static scaling

[bold nacelle]

yea. but there are other titans that are referred to by different names. the one ds killed in taras nabad was named the dreadnought.

[graceful lion]

like how iirc we know the old one's name in tda, but i forgot it

[sonic turret]

He grows more powerful, the longer he spends in the Earth realm.

[graceful lion]

no shit, i know it has a name

[pulsar granite]

Static scaling + 720p upscaled to 1080p

[finite sequoia]

I’m thinking of trying to practice for ultra nightmare because I really don’t want to resort to messing with the difficulty sliders but I don’t know if I have the patience to do the same missions over and over I feel like I’d get burned out :/

[pulsar granite]

I'd rather use fsr 3 only at this point

[bold nacelle]

right but youre wrong when you say that all titans are named great one. theyre not.

[slender night]

Maybe he wasn't in it between II and Eternal?

[pulsar granite]

Speaking of which, frame gen is still broken

[graceful lion]

im taking that from m0no's guide, who knows the lore more than us

[sonic turret]

That depends on whether you consider the Final Doom to be canon or not.

[graceful lion]

who also read the lore many times

[placid rock]

hes not the only one who reads all the lore💀

[slender night]

The IoS-style demons in Final aren't IoS to begin with

[graceful lion]

i know

[sonic turret]

Why not just take it from the same place that M0no takes it from, the information is all there.

[finite sequoia]

I’ve been really confused with the doom lore but it’s awesome so I like it

[graceful lion]

for what a titan's definition is?

[bold nacelle]

anyways. the slayer definitely has killed at least two titans with his hands/without an atlan. icon, and the dreadnought outside taras nabad. i personally believe he did the same with the great one because theres no way in hell he'd have access to his atlan after being betrayed by the priests.

[fair elk]

Can anyone confirm if the Berserker trophy has "retroactively" fixed for them? I've updated Doom TDA (on PS5) but nothing has happened regarding that fixed. I thought it would recognize the progress you made and auto-reward you the trophy provided you met the criteria?

[placid rock]

not working for ps sadly

[bold nacelle]

bro ive read enough to know. the codex's are literally in the game. also his guide is great but he inserts a lot of his own interpretations.

[vital rapids]

The backstory they've given Doom has worked out well for this game. Excellent concept

[bold nacelle]

exactly lmfaooo. bro has never heard of a codex page.

[pulsar granite]

Oh wait shit I know, what if I used both xess and fsr 1

[placid rock]

that could work better just depends on hardware

[hard thistle]

he can still be wrong, as hugo the game director can be

[sonic turret]

Sure, why not. What it comes down too is how the game itself defines it.

[pseudo rampart]

I mean, he had his atlyn in eternal

[placid rock]

broken*

[graceful lion]

the green information in his guide is speculation, and that part is completely white

[pseudo rampart]

So I don’t think the betrayal would have anything to with it

[fair elk]

Oh ok, glad I'm not the only then. I forgot to check to see if the arachno codex was fixed as well, glad the devs actually had a codex for it as I thought maybe the devs didn't bother with it (not many players were talking about the missing arachno codex for some reason)

[pseudo rampart]

Yes but he still had it, iirc I don’t think the priests broke it themselves

[bold nacelle]

the atlan was most likely in the fortress of doom. he didnt have acess to the fortress when he was locked in hell.

[hard thistle]

n he could have mixed it up

[graceful lion]

i mean we'll see from him if he has a codex

[pseudo rampart]

Theres atlyns in hell so idk

[graceful lion]

i dont really care enough to sift through that tbh

[pulsar granite]

Nvm this shit is worse than using only fsr 3 also dork lord I see that

[hard thistle]

don't worry ill look it up ingame rn

[graceful lion]

alright

[bold nacelle]

technically theyre in argent dnur

[finite sequoia]

It’s just crazy how doom slayer went from funny marine guy to medieval Demi god of war

[bold nacelle]

those atlans were left behind on argent dnur when hell absorbed the planet.

[finite sequoia]

I love it tho

[pulsar granite]

Ahhh back to configuring gamescope

[sonic turret]

I mean he was a pretty good Marine by all accounts. As far as I know, he was probably just a grunt, like a Jar Head or whatever, I'm not aware of him even being Special Forces, and yet he shook the pillars of Hell.

[vital rapids]

doom/wh40k/quake/300

[sonic turret]

And that was BEFORE the Divinity Machine.

[finite sequoia]

Literally I love it so much

[vital rapids]

"Shook the pillars of hell" So average marine then.

[bold nacelle]

any other lore questions?

[graceful lion]

pillars of hell?

[finite sequoia]

Literally just a regular marine and he decimated hell

[sonic turret]

I dunno, I mean if he were average, there'd have probably been other that were better than him that survived and were ripping and tearing too.

But I'm guessing that the thing about him looking like Davoth had something to do with it.

[bold nacelle]

"In the annals of Hell's dark history the Titans stand as tragic figures, once peaceful giants who roamed the verdant world as guardians of their realm. However despite their immense power, the Titans were ill-suited for the true nature of warfare, and they were utterly outmatched by the legions of Hell.

With their forms twisted by the Dark Realm's malice and their minds enslaved by Hell's war priests, these towering demons lay waste to untold worlds."

[vital rapids]

There couldn't be they decided because they wanted the game to happen 😂

[hard thistle]

yeah can't find where they are referred as the great ones

[vital rapids]

https://tenor.com/view/pitch-meetings-super-easy-barely-an-inconvenience-ryan-george-funny-gif-658826521867628650

[bold nacelle]

because theyre not

[graceful lion]

we'll see mono's explanation i guess, mightve mixed it up then

[wild rose]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Doom/s/cnc4Xp2Trc

Ngl it's my biggest and only disappointment with TDA

[sonic turret]

I mean he gets a fair amount of plot armor, I suppose we've established that over the last hour of conversation.

[hard thistle]

I agree with you

[bold nacelle]

bro

[vital rapids]

Fr. At length dude

[graceful lion]

is it bad that i want his opinion?, ill take yours as fact for now

i wanna see what he has to say

[mossy juniper]

hellspawn riff is so damn groovy

[graceful lion]

got a link?

[bold nacelle]

https://doom.fandom.com/wiki/Codex/Enemies

scroll down to titan

[graceful lion]

the fandom wiki.

[hard thistle]

it's just funny cuz you make fun of people glazing Hugo's every word (which is fair he has said bs) but then glaze every word that comes out of m0no as if he's like the doom messiah

[pulsar granite]

Ok so I learned that gamescope is useful only for games that don't support fsr, and even then it's not that good since it uses fsr 1

[bold nacelle]

in it are the codex's dude. theyre right there in jpg format.

[hollow sandal]

Fax

[graceful lion]

brother, i just want to know waht he has to say, is that so bad?

[graceful lion]

fair enough

[mossy juniper]

I really hope they fix the music triggers

and make the heavy combat play way more often

[pulsar granite]

Didn't they get fixed this update

[graceful lion]

i think they fixed the audio yesterday

[mossy juniper]

Most levels mostly just repeat the intro

[hard thistle]

no not at all bro, but be honest what I said was kinda true (n wasn't meant as an attack, more like a friendly critique)

[sonic turret]

I prefer to go to the primary source. I mean I've been through the university system and this is how I was taught.

[mossy juniper]

no, only the volume

The audio triggers are unchanged

[hard thistle]

what intro

[frail bloom]

No ppl said they fixed the mixing too no?

[mossy juniper]

the buildups to the heavy combat

[bold nacelle]

m0no told me that the doomslayers mark showing up before he ressurrected was him essentially reassuring himself whenever hes scared that he would be okay, but hugo later confirmed the next week that its actually him getting in touch with his rage. m0n0 is cool for compiling all the lore but to say that he doesnt interject his own personal interpretations is wrong.

[frail bloom]

I've asked around and I've heard different things

[sonic turret]

Yeah, I thought that was the issue.

[mossy juniper]

nope

[frail bloom]

Ye I thought they fixed thaf

[bold nacelle]

doomslayer, scared. lmfao cmon

[graceful lion]

though hugo also said a few things that contradict lore, so both of them have issues

[mossy juniper]

read the patch notes

[hard thistle]

same, it's not that ion fw with m0no or anything, it's just that he only knows stuff that we can all look up ingame

[graceful lion]

he is clearly capable of feeling emotions, he held thira's hand like she's made of glass

[mossy juniper]

Like, if you play Siege P1, you'll almost never hear the heavy combat. Just the build up

[graceful lion]

but yeah he never gets scared

[frail bloom]

@harsh egret
@vital rapids
Was the music mixing changed for any of yus

[sonic turret]

M0no said this, M0no said that, I feel like as a community we need to stop relying on M0no and start researching these things for ourselves, but it seems like Doom fan base is docile.

[graceful lion]

i agree, he never gets scared, im jus saying he feels emotions

[bold nacelle]

yes but fear at this point is definitely not one of them. the first thing he did when confronted with a literal copy of himself was shoot at it with his shotgun.

[graceful lion]

so true

[chilly osprey]

Prince Ahzrak had no reason to Aurafarm like that in that cutscene when standing on that ship and when he punched doom guy lol

[bold nacelle]

its all in the codex.

[graceful lion]

even m0no said to not take his word on anything, he has as much knowledge as us

[hard thistle]

I would never in a gazillion years think it was anything other then his rage, but everyone's allowed to interpret things differently I guess

[graceful lion]

so is all of m0no's info tho, the green text is speculation iirc

[sonic turret]

Precisely, and the codex is there for a reason. Perhaps in the next game, Hugo should just save disc space and tell everything to M0no, instead of putting the codex in there.

[hard thistle]

yeah bro which is why I said to follow the rule that if what hugo says contradicts the lore, ignore it. If not, take it as fact.

[bold nacelle]

well thats what it is. its just his rage. "they are rage, brutal without mercy. but you will be different." "his rage is his strength"-hugo martin.

[mossy juniper]

I wish the ending of the campaign had greater build up and sense of urgency. The climax felt a bit flat

[hard thistle]

They call the Great One the Great One like it is a title. We can presume it was more powerful than others.

[sonic turret]

Yeah, he's said a few things, I think he sometimes makes things up on the spot lol.

[graceful lion]

so all titans arent great ones, should probably change that in your guide

[vital rapids]

Yes. I reset it to defaults before I tried so it wasn't too loud

[harsh egret]

yeah alot, its just perfect now tbh, reset to default like they recommended and its perfect for me

[hard thistle]

They are Hell wildlife native to dank murky places like the Slough of Torment. They are implied to be descendants of giant cycloptic monsters.

[mossy juniper]

Like they were able to fight through hell with such a small team felt weird. Especially when they said they'd failed plenty of times before with atlans

[frail bloom]

Ye see some ppl say the mixing is better

[harsh egret]

it is

[frail bloom]

I heard heavy combat in siege too

[mossy juniper]

Mixing in terms of sound balance is a lot better

But the triggers are not changed

[hard thistle]

yeah that's true

[vital rapids]

"the great ones" before whose ascension all shall fall in the Titan's Realm aren't the Titans then. So maybe that's where it comes from though @hard thistle ?

[harsh egret]

i started a new playthrough today and ended at siege p2, enjoyed the music more now for sure

[oblique raft]

Any tips for nightmare run

[mossy juniper]

sort of like a marvel movie where the climax has no sense of urgency and feels small in scale compared to what they're trying to convey

[frail bloom]

Well theyn didn't fight thru hell 1, and 2 they were abt to die before the slayer showed up

[graceful lion]

"Titans, also known as the Great Ones, are gargantuan demonic monsters, typically
humanoid in appearance. They are revered within Hell for their immense power and capability of
destruction. Titans are typically utilized within Hell as slaves and warriors." this part from your guide

[bold nacelle]

ngl i dont remember when hes ever contradicted the lore. not saying he hasnt. i just dont remember

[graceful lion]

m0no has put in a few times where he contradicted the lore, lemme see if i can find it

[frail bloom]

The climax was just getting rid of the garbage, it's just cathartic to trash on ahzrak

[mossy juniper]

who r u guys talking abt

[graceful lion]

• "Yeah sure he killed the Great One with his bare hands." Bullshit and contradicts Eternal and TDA.
• "The Slayer went to Hell because he killed a lot of stuff and that's bad." Bullshit and contradicts Eternal and TDA.
• "The Whiplash is the first female demon." Bullshit, contradicts Doom II, Doom 64, Doom 3, and Doom 2016.
• "The Slayer was born a Primeval and always had powers." Really contradicts blatant implications in TAG2 and basic fabric of the classics.
  Stuff like this.

[graceful lion]

hugo martini

[mossy juniper]

also who's M0no?

[graceful lion]

the guy who has a 285 page google doc on doom lore

[vital rapids]

"Through the Titan’s Realm and down, down to the Great Steppe where the trophies of victory are kept through the ages. Their false idols banished to a wasteland. Their towers fallen, their foundations ground to dust, their hallowed halls kept empty as cruel reminders that civilizations shall fall before the ascension of the great ones" like the phrase is there in 2016 in a way you could read wrong when tired or smth

[lament grove]

I DIED TO THE FUCKING REVENANT KOMODO DUO 💔 UN RUN RUINED

[hard thistle]

a lore guy, THE lore guy actually

[graceful lion]

rip

[mossy juniper]

I think the sense of urgency would've come across better if cutscenes showed more civilians in danger/being mauled to death

[vital rapids]

https://tenor.com/view/noo-no-father-elf-will-farrell-gif-14042015

[mossy juniper]

huh

[sonic turret]

We should ALL be lore guys, but unfortunately, people want to talk about the lore in a matter for fact way, but don't want to do the hard work.

[graceful lion]

he has a 285 page google doc on the lore

[hard thistle]

well to be fair, they got thira controlling a wraith now. But yeah seeing such a small team compared to tag 2 felt off

[sonic turret]

Nah Google Dog sounded cuter lol

[graceful lion]

she isnt controlling a wraith, just has one in her and the wraith is cooperating

[frail bloom]

Again, they were abt to die before the slayer showed up

[lament grove]

☹️ ☹️

[hard thistle]

guy named m0no made like a 280 page document about doom lore n he's in chat rn, or was idk

[graceful lion]

well, in tag 2 they were ending the war in hell completely, they knew this wont end it forever though

[graceful lion]

nope, offline rn

[hard thistle]

u get what I mean

[graceful lion]

that part was more of a final stand, this was just a distraction for the demons so doomguy could get to ahzrak

[hard thistle]

how do you even see this

[mossy juniper]

I expected a wayyyy bigger charge into hell for the climax

[vital rapids]

Sucks man 😞

[graceful lion]

she didnt control the wraith, because the wraith also just made her float in place for a bit, isnt that what your logic was for the maykrs controlling doomguy?

[lament grove]

i was doing so well too i genuinely hate early game so much bruh 😭

[graceful lion]

well this wasnt THE climax, and the argents knew this, so not everyone said "fuck it we ball"

[frail bloom]

Ye we still have dlc

[mossy juniper]

I know but still

[vital rapids]

TAG3

[frail bloom]

Dlc will likely offer smt even more climaxy

[hard thistle]

ngl I'd preferred it if they all stayed back n let the slayer handle it, them entering hell is just gonna add more casualties/victims on their side

[placid rock]

https://tenor.com/view/no-the-office-michael-scott-scream-gif-16929305

[graceful lion]

maybe a distraction?, idk

[graceful lion]

"Somehow, Davoth Returned"

[hard thistle]

huh?

[placid rock]

fuck that shit lmao

[graceful lion]

she cant control the wraith forever, just like the maykrs couldnt control the slayer forever

[mossy juniper]

[placid rock]

straight up would be so dumb if they just revived davoth

[graceful lion]

that would actually be bullshit, his soul was completely erased by every meaning of the word

[frail bloom]

She wasn't controlling the wraith, that's why she said

"Draw the horde to us"

Or am I dum

[graceful lion]

he is literally completely unable to exist, in any way shape or form

[frail bloom]

Wait or was that smt else

[placid rock]

no youre right

[graceful lion]

OHHH it was a distraction, ok that makes sense

[hard thistle]

bro I said "u get what I mean" as in, she's using the wraith in hell idk how or why it works, but she can use it. that's it

[graceful lion]

right, mb

[bold nacelle]

that last one is a misinterpretation. the slayer was born a primeval but hugo said the divinity machine unlocked the powers. he never said he always had them.

[graceful lion]

doomguy also most likely lost davoth's powers, as all parts of davoth's soul have to die, for him atleast

[graceful lion]

the slayer was a human, born a human.

[bold nacelle]

yes but its clear he's a primeval given that he was born literally a copy of davoth.

[graceful lion]

was he?

[bold nacelle]

yes

[graceful lion]

where is this said.

[bold nacelle]

... his character design spanning across all games

[hard thistle]

not said, more like shown

[graceful lion]

i see

though iirc the slayer literally had no involvement with anything until he was in argent dnur, where the khan proved her prophecy of her people's death correct by creating the slayer

[bold nacelle]

it wasnt like the divinity machine made him look like davoth. he was born a copy through the dark lords influence and then the machine unlocked his powers.

[hard thistle]

but ion know about the doomguy being born a primeval

[errant pagoda]

Should have exited to menu as soon as the death animation starts. Then you can restart the map, tho the game still puts a death marker at where you were killed.

[graceful lion]

@hard thistle i want your opinion about this, i think you said something about it?

[silent surge]

yet he connects back to ‘93 doom from before all that

[graceful lion]

i just want his opinion on it, thats all

[placid rock]

this is like the 20th time you guys pinged him jeez💀

[graceful lion]

poor guy 😭

[bold nacelle]

the slayer has looked like davoth since 93. if that doesnt make him a copy of davoth what does that make him.

[lament grove]

fuckkkk

[graceful lion]

and hes probably just gonna go back offline

[graceful lion]

i believe you, i just want to see what m0no has to say.

[bold nacelle]

youre good homie no prob

[slender night]

The victim of lazy character design

[vital rapids]

Poor guy's trying to bungee jump rn

[bold nacelle]

TRUE

[slender night]

I would find it hilarious if they look alike just cuz TAG was rushed

[delicate grotto]

I wish TDA threw a bit more at the player. When I think back to late game levels of 2016 and Eternal, you had at least 6-8 heavies and 1-2 super heavies spawned in at once. TDA is way more paced out. Maybe the parry system restricted encounters to be formed that way, so the player isn’t overwhelmed, but I felt id could’ve pushed its players a bit more. The game can handle more AI at once but a majority of that room is used for fodder. I’m hoping the DLC utilizes the game’s combat system to its full potential. Love the game, just something I’ve been thinking about since starting my second playthrough. The combat is so fun, I hate how quickly most fights end.

[bold nacelle]

thats exactly what it was

[placid rock]

it entirely was 💀

[bold nacelle]

but thats the lore now. ig we just gotta deal with it

[frail bloom]

There is a secret encounter with 3 cybies so it's certainly possible

[vital rapids]

Does the lore say he's a clone, or does it just appear that way?

[placid rock]

doomguy is davoth in the human world and davoth is doomguy in hell's world

[bold nacelle]

iirc it says hes a clone

[graceful lion]

i think m0no said something about the slayer slowly looking like davoth, since he looks different in tda and in eternal

[vital rapids]

Ah OK, ty

[graceful lion]

source?

[slender night]

If you're basing that off the "he's you, in their world" line, I always understood that as comparing their roles as leaders of opposing forces

[bold nacelle]

tag 2 codex.

[vital rapids]

His source is iirc tbf

[sonic turret]

I mean everyone's saying that the Slayer looks like Davoth, however if would make more sense to me if Davoth manifested in the Luninarium, based on how the Slayer appeared, since he was the primary humanoid point of reference while Davoth was materialising, and it would also be something relatable to the Slayer too.

[graceful lion]

which one.

[bold nacelle]

what i am remembering is something about the slayer being born from the essence of davoth and sent to be born in another universe separate from the khan maykrs influence so that he could eventually become the destroyer and destroy the maykrs for davoth.

[placid rock]

doomguy isnt a leader he always has been a marine doing the mission

[sonic turret]

I do recall Hugo mentioning something though when someone asked why Davoth looked like the Slayer and he said something like the Slayer looks like Davoth.

[slender night]

Figure of speech, he's the protagonist

[sonic turret]

But that could just be the Mandela effect.

[placid rock]

vega isnt talking about writing in the script he is talking about who they are as a person

[graceful lion]

he was only involved with davoth since the divinity machine tho?

it was never said that he was born from davoth's essence

[placid rock]

that would be really dumb if vega said that because the devs said so in the script

[slender night]

You aren't understanding me here

He's the protagonist, he's an opposite to Davoth, the antagonist, recognizing they are opposites just because of where they stand in this conflict can happen in-universe too

[vital rapids]

Does anyone know of anywhere where Hugo's pronouncements are recorded?

And/or a version of the codex corrected for things Hugo has retconned/ruled out?

[delicate grotto]

I thought it was implied Doomguy’s body transformed to look more like Davoth after the Divinity Machine imbued him with a fragment of Davoth’s essence?

[graceful lion]

this is what m0no said also

[placid rock]

that doesnt mean anything to the lore thats just the script!!

[slender night]

???

[sonic turret]

Usually in the YouTube streams.

[slender night]

You can absolutely say that "this guy is opposite to this guy, they are enemies" without it feeling out of place

[placid rock]

🤦‍♂️

[vital rapids]

And I'm only partly joking here - I would actually find it interesting to see a reference of the off-the-cuff stuff

[sonic turret]

But you could spend days going back over the footage of everything that Hugo's recorded to have said.

[placid rock]

you see even if you do read the lore people rather believe in their own stuff most of the time

[slender night]

I never said this is how the lore is, I said this is how I interpreted it

[placid rock]

wasnt talking about you? i was saying that in general

[slender night]

Hard to tell

[placid rock]

no worries

mostly people will like to have the lore the way it makes sense to them due to hugo contradicting everything when he speaks so at this point the lore is up in the air with hugo spouting stuff

[bold nacelle]

if that was the case his concept art in eternal wouldnt have used 93 doomguy as a reference.

[delicate grotto]

Perhaps the transformation is overtime as well, since he looks much different in this game in comparison to Eternal, with only structural features sharing similarities. Could be age that changed his look, but his appearance aligns with Davoth’s in Eternal.

Or we could suspend our disbelief and accept that he only looks different because the face model wasn’t given as much effort as it was in TDA lol, and he’s supposed to look the same between both games.

[vital rapids]

ngl anything Hugo says that I like or amuses me I'll be considering canon 😂

[graceful lion]

lmfao

[bold nacelle]

he doesnt age though. its just a design upgrade

[placid rock]

be shocking if he said doomguy was actually a furry this whole time🤣

[hollow sandal]

Hugo pleewaaase 😭

[delicate grotto]

That’s what I’m thinking too. Just wondering if the model was deliberately changed (for the better) or for more of a lore reason.

[hard thistle]

I dislike the idea that Doomguy was born with any relation to Davoth. I think it is stupid and Hugo was making a dumb choice by implying it.

Doomguy's face looking different in TDA IMO implies the Divinity Machine slowly changed his appearance.

[vital rapids]

Sold! I'll take this answer. In the headcanon it goes ty

[graceful lion]

i see

[vivid umbra]

I thought that since he wore a helmet for a while his face changed but not that

[graceful lion]

why would that change his face if he never ages, he never has to shit, sleep or anything

[bold nacelle]

his design has been largely consistent since 93. the differences between eternal and tda are minimal and could largely be attributed to tech and engine upgrades

he literally looks the exact same aside from the fact that his eyes arent three miles apart from eachother.

[sonic turret]

Hugo asked about what people think about a Doom series and I think that the new animated Predator artistic style would be perfect for a Doom series. 🤔

[sonic turret]

I mean the Eternal design is practically the same as classic Doom, however the DA design, which took place chronologically between the two, looks slightly different, with darker hair.

[hollow sandal]

You were right vro

[real crater]

doom series mentioned by hugo himself

[vivid umbra]

Yeah that makes more sense

[real crater]

we're so back

[bold nacelle]

its literally the same design

[hollow sandal]

Hugo pleewaaase 😭

[sonic turret]

Yes

[real crater]

with all the lore in the franchise it could easily be dragged out for several seasons

youtube videos merely describing what happens in a broad manner are still 3 hours long

[sonic turret]

The Predator movie dropped just this morning and the whole time had me thinking that the artwork style would be perfect for the Slayer.

[bold nacelle]

it doesnt make sense for the divinity machine to be slowly changing his appearance when his eternal design was made to resemble 93 doomguy

[hard thistle]

They outright changed his facial structure and IIRC they made his eyes a lot darker.

[sonic turret]

I mean the important thing that I see as a learning curve for id would be to tie up lose ends and not leave gaps in the narrative.

[foggy breach]

It would be awesome if we got a Doom tv series.

[real crater]

yeah that would be nice

[hard thistle]

TDA's design resembles it more, though. Eternal's design is widely regarded to be kind of a hack job.

[bold nacelle]

but those are very small changes that can easily be attributed to better technology.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Doom/comments/1kfzxkk/dark_ages_face_vs_eternal_face/

[bold nacelle]

theyre the exact same design, only difference being the other one is made with higher fidelity

[sonic turret]

But this design seems more like concept art, I remember him looking more like the picture on the right in TDA, the only major differences was that he looked slightly younger and his hair was darker than in classic Doom.

[lilac swan]

In TDA it's just an updated model of his face, since in eternal they modeled his face to fit the helmet visor, which made his eyes very separate from each other, in TDA they fixed it in a way

[bold nacelle]

exactly

[hard thistle]

Here's what I know: the idea that Doomguy was born a Primeval or a chosen one with secret powers to be unlocked is fucking stupid and defeats the point of Doomguy as a character. He was conceptualized as a normal human and the appeal of his character is that his significance and strength comes from circumstances and will, not because he was destined to be a mega badass.
Most of the modern Doom canon does a great job at recontextualizing the originals without trampling on the original visions for those games. This idea does not do that. It is bullshit and I sincerely doubt it will ever actually be focused on in the games because there will surely be other writers who work on the games who will rein in that design process.

[vital rapids]

https://tenor.com/view/shocked-confused-family-guy-horrified-scared-gif-17887904

[bold nacelle]

even if you dislike it its still a major point in tag. there is no other explanation for him looking like davoth since 93 other than him being a clone.

[vital rapids]

What does Davoth really look like?

[hard thistle]

An explanation was actually just given - you simply disagreed with it.

[bold nacelle]

it was an explanation backed by headcanon lol

[hard thistle]

I do not believe TDA merely "updated the model." They made changes to his face that go beyond just upgrading graphical fidelity.

[real crater]

i think thats only a common misconception because its mentioned in the codex that there was a prophesized destroyer of the maykr race and they think doom guy was the prophesized destroyer when in reality it was just the fact that there would be a destroyer that was prophesized

[bold nacelle]

the problem is is that hes looked like davoth since 93. thats the point of contention.

[hard thistle]

Which is exactly what Hugo said, lol. It's almost like this specific plot point is so vague and nonsensical that you have to scrap things together to make it make sense.

[sonic turret]

I mean in the Sentinel texts, Ligra Sultagenta, he was humanoid, we can see that much, however it doesn't show his face, we don't see that until TAG1.

[lilac swan]

and his face didn't even change much, his face in eternal was based on the hud from the classic game

[empty sable]

Summer Games Fest is now 🥳

[hard thistle]

Hugo's notion that Doomguy was born a Primeval contradicts blatant implications in TAG2.

[bold nacelle]

in mick vickers interviews hugo literally said the machine unlocked his powers.

[hard thistle]

Yeah - my game was there!

[bold nacelle]

which ones?

[bold nacelle]

dude congrats wtf

[hard thistle]

Yes. Which is an explanation backed by Hugo's headcanons, i.e. shit not in the actual game.

[empty sable]

Which one?

[hard thistle]

Thanks! I'm really excited about it.

[hard thistle]

COMING HOME, the last game revealed for Access-Ability Summer Showcase.

[bold nacelle]

how? you can easily infer the connection just by looking at his design-- which, again, has remained consistent since 93

[graceful lion]

wait what, thats awesome

[graceful lion]

ok, so look at what the divinity machine's codex said, and look at what hugo said, does it connect?

[empty sable]

Congrats. Didn't know you were a game dev.

[lilac swan]

Maybe there will be another codex in the TDA DLC to try to fix this.

[sonic turret]

What's the Access Ability Summer Showcase?

[graceful lion]

i feel like we have enough info, no?

[bold nacelle]

Yes. If he has looked like Davoth since 93 and is the ONLY PERSON to have the ability to withstand the divinity machine, then its obvious that he is a clone of davoth.

[graceful lion]

no, i mean about the "unlocking his powers" part

[hard thistle]

Okay, I will talk about the Doom thing in a second.
Access-Ability's a showcase for games that focus on accessibility settings. We revealed our game at the end talking about the extensive accessibility stuff we have, like directional subtitles and high-contrast visuals.
Our game is a retro slasher FNAF-like with a focus on home defense.

[lilac swan]

According to what Hugo said, it makes no sense.

[vivid umbra]

Fnaf lore all over again

[graceful lion]

according to the codex, the actual lore, hugo makes no sense

[hard thistle]

https://store.steampowered.com/app/3123670/COMING_HOME/
If you would like to see the game you can click here, although I think VEGA might block this? (Nevermind, all good.)

Steam

COMING HOME

A retro slasher horror game, with a focus on home defense. In the dead of night, you hear someone lurking outside - but you are not defenseless. Watch the cameras, barricade your doors, and have your gun at the ready - anything to keep the Sundown Rippers from claiming their next victim.…

Release Date

2026

▶ Play video

You can wishlist if you want, I would appreciate that. Thanks for the interest.

[oak temple]

Damn I went on Eternal after playing TDA for weeks and I need to remember to stop going up to demons and to keep running

TDA does really make you feel like a tank

[bold nacelle]

hugo already said it and it makes perfect sense given that hes a clone of davoth

[hard thistle]

A slight correction: Doomguy is not said to be special in his withstanding the Machine. The Machine was killing the Sentinels because that was its intended purpose by the Khan. Samur reversed the polarity when he used it on Doomguy. It's possible it would've killed him if he hadn't.

I'm typing up a response to the TAG2 thing but I just want to emphasize that I do not care what Hugo says, the guy seems great and I love his work on this series but I do not place any stock in developer comments and I think what's in the games themselves ultimately outweighs the importance of dev comments.

[graceful lion]

nah tell em u mean business, then get turned inside out

[empty sable]

No shield in Eternal and if you try to have a fistfight with a demon, especially a bigger one you will get wrecked lol

[hard thistle]

TAG2 overwhelmingly implies that Davoth's power was stolen from him and transferred to the Slayer via the Divinity Machine, explaining the Slayer's powers.

• The Codex tells us the Father took a shard of Davoth's Life Sphere, and this shard was used to power the Divinity Machine.
• Davoth says that "they stole my power" halfway through his boss fight.
• Accordingly, Davoth is forced to use a mech during TAG2 to fight the Slayer,
• The Father says that the Slayer was made by Davoth's hand, and so he faints, likely losing his powers because Davoth has died.

The blatant implication is a transference of power, not an unlocking of latent power already inside Doomguy. Hugo's comments ignore this stuff.

[lilac swan]

the melee in eternal doing 1 damage

[sonic turret]

Ah, I'd have thought that most new games would have a high level of accessibility settings nowadays, although they never seem to make the text large enough, even at maximum. I literally had to move my TV yesterday, just to play Final Fantasy 16.

[bold nacelle]

whats the explanation for the davoth resemblance then?

[hard thistle]

Hugo's comments here were baseless and relied on headcanon. That being "Davoth always looked like this." Many fans believed Davoth changed his appearance to look like Doomguy and many still would if not for that comment, because TAG1 only ever showed him in the Codex as a humanoid silhouette with short hair. That is the headcanon. As far as I am concerned, Hugo saying shit that isn't in the actual games is just headcanon with extra steps, and I do not see why his headcanon is any more important than Discord Joe's.

[bold nacelle]

but wasnt the divinity machine literally willed by the dark lord?

[hard thistle]

Had Hugo not said "Davoth always looked like this," I think most fans' default presumption would've been that Davoth's appearance has changed to resemble what he believes to be the strongest being in Hell, which is the Slayer.

[bold nacelle]

he looks like the slayer in the tag 1 codex that you find in the blood swamps

[hard thistle]

Davoth willed the Khan to make it, but she did not realize this. She saw it as a machine to purify the Sentinel ranks and kill them so that the Destroyer would not happen.

[bold nacelle]

exactly. it was willed by him for what purpose?

[silent surge]

no doom yet on the summer game show thingy?

[bold nacelle]

to create the slayer.

[vital rapids]

so, taking game canon as canon
ie until and unless they put it down "in writing" (in the games) it is not committed to
fair enough

[hard thistle]

So? Random fan theories can also become canon. That doesn't mean we should assume they're canon before they are.

[hard thistle]

Yes. Hugo says a lot of things. Random dev comments are not an indication of canon, they are an indication of intent, and intent changes. Davoth was originally gonna turn into a dragon but that doesn't mean he canonically can.

[vital rapids]

yeah, and should be free to, with the community

without being raked over the coals

[hard thistle]

You're missing my point - my point is that while the Divinity Machine's ultimate purpose was to create the Slayer, it explicitly was not capable of doing this in its default state. Samur reversing the polarity at the right moment (also willed by Davoth) was what created the Slayer.

So it wasn't, like, a test of who could withstand it. It was waiting until the right person presented themselves for Davoth to manipulate events for the Divinity Machine to finally do the actual thing he wanted it to do.

[silent surge]

even if it says written by hugo martin in the TDA credits
there’s still likely a team

[bold nacelle]

what makes the slayer the right person for davoths power if not being a clone of davoth? that is my point

[hard thistle]

IIRC many writers are credited.

[sonic turret]

I mean if Davoth had always looked like that, you'd think he demons would be like "Say, you look familiar", when they see the Slayer.

[bold nacelle]

he cant just resemble davoth and then also be the right person to have his powers for no reason other than the luls.

[hard thistle]

By this point in the timeline Doomguy was already a legendary enemy of Hell's for standing up to them in Doom 1993. (In the first age, in the first battle...)
The Codex notes he was already ravenous in fighting the demons.

[vital rapids]

yeah, could get awkward at kitten-roasting parties in hell too

[silent surge]

just the top part says written by hugo martin, but under that theres likely everyone else

[hard thistle]

Except TDA significantly changed the Slayer's facial design and with that in mind I believe that is proper evidence to suggest that Eternal's botched face design (originally just, y'know, how they modeled him) can now retroactively be considered specifically a tie-in to Davoth.

Both designs are made to resemble the original. But this series is no stranger to retcons and retroactively changing intent.

[sonic turret]

Yeah, I remember Hugo being credited as writer, along with one or two others.

[empty sable]

That Atomic Heart sequel looks insane.

[dreamy wharf]

This game is so peak✌️on my 2nd un run

[hard thistle]

And again I do not think the face design changes were just because of the graphical upgrade. They changed his facial structure and eye color. Even just the concept art was drawn to look way different from Eternal even though the Slayer should not be capable of visibly aging.

[empty sable]

Never played the first one. Clearly it was a success for a sequel and an MMO too.

[bold nacelle]

"significantly changed" is an exagerration when all they did was adjust the space between his eyes and added scars to his face

[sonic turret]

But the Doomguy from Ultimate Doom does

[hard thistle]

These are explicitly design changes that cannot be chalked up to graphical fidelity.

[lilac swan]

but that's literally what was done

[hard thistle]

Also I had my own theory on Primevals that reconciled some of the shit Hugo said and made it actually decent, but I don't know if I can find it. I don't really believe it but I'd take it over the "unlocking of powers" shit.

[bold nacelle]

bro. so the only thing the divinity machine did to make him resemble davoth was... space his eyes out more.

[vital rapids]

https://tenor.com/view/crazy-eyes-steve-buscemi-big-eyes-gif-5312326

[hard thistle]

Yes. That is what happens when you retroactively try to make details make sense to justify a plot point that was stupid to begin with and seemingly only existed for a cool cliffhanger to TAG1. You get stupid plot details.

[graceful lion]

doomguy in eternal literally looks different than doomguy in tda, it is not even just "eh i see it as different", he literally is

[bold nacelle]

bro how. https://www.reddit.com/r/Doom/comments/1kfzxkk/dark_ages_face_vs_eternal_face/

[hard thistle]

Oh hey, I found it.

You give me 20 minutes with id's lore stuff and I will make something very cool out of it.

Basically: Seraph lore about Primevals was a bit twisted. Each realm has a Primeval, a being who is tied to the realm who has the potential to arise to greatness if the circumstances permit it. All Primevals are tied to other Primevals - in fact, all Primevals have the same appearance.
All Primevals are just different iterations of the same man, showing up in each realm in some way. A Primeval is a Doomguy. Davoth was the first, and he's a version of Doomguy if he had been on Jekkad as the first man. A Primeval is just an iteration of Doomguy who has arisen to significance. Doom 3's protag is a Doomguy. OG Doomguy is a Doomguy. In another far-off realm, a Doomguy named Flynn Taggart fights aliens that look like demons.

Expansions like Plutonia or LoR are stories involving other Earthly Realms very similar to the Classic world, involving alternate Doomguys fighting Hell in its vastness.

[graceful lion]

the author of the post's first words on the matter are "they look like two different people"...

[lilac swan]

And they added much more bones to his face model, I put both models, from Eternal and from TDA side by side, and the TDA model has a lot more bones to make better expressions than the eternal one

[sonic turret]

I might just do a narrative interview with Hugo and untie all these knots kinks ans straighten out the crooked lines and find out what exactly is canon and what isn't.

[empty sable]

There is a difference, but clearly a strong resemblance. In Eternal his face looks like a little beefier lol

[graceful lion]

i think lil just didnt see doomguy in a while

[sonic turret]

He was older then and had jowls.

[lilac swan]

This face in the image is from the artbook, it doesn't make sense to compare it to the face in the game.

[graceful lion]

so every person here other than lil thinks he looks different

[bold nacelle]

you guys are seeing shit if you think they look like two different peopl.

[sonic turret]

I think it's just concept art.

[graceful lion]

but yes thats a rendered image from the game

[graceful lion]

"everyone here is wrong and im the only one right"