streamchat

[muted robin]

https://tenor.com/view/phantom-menace-the-phantom-menace-star-wars-watch-your-career-your-career-with-great-gif-1059488878527035967

[brittle rune]

Nah you won't.

[hasty grail]

how stupid was the person?

[kindred sedge]

Little ham just Dr. Manhattaned that man

[gray fable]

was it a sock?

[muted robin]

stupid but unamusing

[hasty grail]

darn

[muted robin]

came in looking for an skg chat and said "i'll just be toxic here then"

[brittle rune]

just someone exclusively here to hate, nothing much to see

[covert monolith]

hate when that happens, cant even be entertainment

[muted robin]

and they'll probably go whining that they got banned for disagreeing with thor slkdfjlksd

[terse pelican]

https://tenor.com/view/just-another-day-at-the-office-seal-team-jason-hayes-david-boreanaz-get-the-job-done-gif-3352117836838782541

[covert monolith]

well now theyre free to jingle their jester bells in their own echo chambers

[distant quiver]

I always seem to miss watching the mods nuke a troll from orbit. Lol could use the laughs today

[covert monolith]

oh I just realized this is still pinned, btw #streamchat message might be misleading since the channel isnt there anymore

[hasty grail]

https://tenor.com/view/ferret-attack-gif-24550066

[brittle rune]

Fixed, thanks!

[covert monolith]

no problem :] just know that kinda crowd loooves to be pedantic lol

[outer cobalt]

no dune memes

[winged knoll]

[idle hill]

dunen't

[indigo wadi]

https://tenor.com/view/iam-smiling-gif-24530724

[hazy storm]

Oh did i just manage to dodge another troll

[opaque raven]

I'm watching Thor's dad playing Lost Vikings and looks like one hell of a fun game

[indigo wadi]

Really digging Warpforged

[terse pelican]

It is, But it's also darned hard, Unless ofc you're 'our dad'

[strange owl]

It's a bit outdated at this point, but still very fun.

[hazy storm]

Been wanting to get into that. Is it P2W

[indigo wadi]

All CCGs are p2w

[hazy storm]

On a scale of 1 to hearthstone then

[indigo wadi]

hrm...

well the monetization is on the heavyside, so maybe. 5-6ish? Each deck type has it's own premium cost that gives you a deck and unlocks the premium track for it.

But it's no different than buying a starter pack for a faction, imo. If you take it slow and just have fun, it's not toooo bad. I don't have all the Necron cards and I do kind of okayish on ranked

With premium track, you can also keep claiming the end reward an infinite amount of times

There's also this track for each faction as well

you can also buy cards with in-game currency that you get plenty of by just playing

this cycles daily iirc

currency & boosters

So yeah, your basic CCG stuffs

[hazy storm]

That's pretty cool. Hows the time investment? One reason i had to quit hearthstone was that the daily grind was getting ridonkulous

[indigo wadi]

mm...If you're trying to max out daily skulls (100, you can get a max of 3 skulls per match IF you win) can be a bit much

but I don't fee it's overly necessary to max it out.

[hazy storm]

Ok you've convinced me. I give it a shot later

[indigo wadi]

There's also a draft mode which is nice.

You pick 1 of 3 warlords, then 10 rounds of picking between 3 different sets of cards (3 cards per pack for a 30 deck)

tutorial is nice as well.

[hazy storm]

That's something hearthstone did well. Tutorial and new player on boarding is top notch

[indigo wadi]

each faction has it's own mechanic. Like Necrons have remenants, which allows them to be revived with spells (aka Strategems)

[hazy storm]

Also got into marvel snap for a while but it got old just having skins of cards and few actually new cards

[indigo wadi]

the monetization for Snap has gotten ridic

I enjoyed it a lot, but it just didn't stick with me.

[terse pelican]

Necrons are the Bestest. ( Never played Warpforged, Only Soulstorm/Dawn of War, Rogue Trader and SMarine 2. )

[indigo wadi]

Ya, I'm a big necron fan, even though I'm just getting into Warhammer

[hazy storm]

I loved playing guard in soulstorm

[indigo wadi]

There's apparently a Warhammer 40k mmo in the works

[terse pelican]

Necrons or Sisters of Battle was my preffered choice

[hazy storm]

Another one? They attempted that a few times before but nothing came out

[hazy storm]

Necrons were super annoying to fight yeah lol

[terse pelican]

They really are, Which makes them fun

[indigo wadi]

I don't know about another one. This one has been in the works for a bit apparentyl

https://www.sportskeeda.com/mmo/everything-know-far-new-warhammer-mmo-netease-backed-project-city-of-heroes-designer

[terse pelican]

NetEase? hmm...

[hazy storm]

They tried a space marine 3rd person shooter mmo that didn't really go far beyond demo videos

[indigo wadi]

To be fair

NetEase has been kind of okay recently

They've just been throwing money and letting studios do their thing

[terse pelican]

Once Human as a game wassn't bad at least

[hazy storm]

That had a Warhammer fantasy mmo too that released but didn't last long. Couldn't beat wow

[hazy storm]

I think it came out the same time frozen throne did, which was a real hard thing to compete against

[terse pelican]

https://tenor.com/view/brother-ew-ew-what-is-that-whats-that-brother-gif-14318384540422820315

[indigo wadi]

Was it Warhammer: Reckoning?

[hazy storm]

I think so? Don't remember exactly

[indigo wadi]

It's uh...currently ran by fans 😉

was initially set up by one of the devs after it's shutdown

there's about 750 ppl playing it.

[hazy storm]

Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning is the official version

[indigo wadi]

Return of Reckoning is the fan-investment

[hazy storm]

Its an entirely pvp focused mmo so 750 players will make that... challenging to keep interesting

Unless they go through the same guild battles over and over like red vs blue

[indigo wadi]

Not entirely sure, I've only dipped my toe into it. Need to put in more time, but this month is hecking busy with moving

[hazy storm]

Lmk how it goes

The game not the moving. Although you can share that too if you want

[indigo wadi]

starting out it's been alright. They recommending focusing on PvP, but you can PvE quest.

You have 2 levels. One for character, one for renown (pvp). Renown needs to be kept up to speed for the gear/level brackets, I think

[hazy storm]

Ok time for another wasteful and pointless meeting at work. Later

[spark tide]

okay thank you

[exotic forge]

That's the guys who made Marvel Rivals aren't they

[terse pelican]

and Once Human

[vivid maple]

wait are we talking about gooner rivals

[wet storm]

Honestly I respect the grind

But there is an #advertising channel

[terse pelican]

I'd honestly suggest you don't do work for free even if it's just one video, If you edit for someone, you should get paid for the work

[tranquil jewel]

Sending hearts and hugs to all yall, mods especially

[wet storm]

The 95% first time discount is real

[outer gust]

Hello! Advertisements should be in #advertising

[past harbor]

Can't say I'm terribly surprised a 40k MMO hasn't worked out. It's got largely the same problem star wars does. Everyone wants the power fantasy but the lore really doesn't support that.

[gloomy forge]

True, but its not just the lore itself. Its also the roles that people need to hold in order to make the game immersive. It could work, but wasn't it city of heroes that did the power fantasy right? Battlefront 2 also did ignore the lore and it worked. I feel it can work but needs focus on specific lore or else everyone wants to become god emperor

[indigo wadi]

Necrons would solve this issue

[hazy storm]

I played SW old republic and actively avoided the jedi. I mained republic trooper and had an imperial agent alt

The sith juggernaut really tempted me though

They're not releasing the VODs anymore. Too many people clipping it out off context

Lesser of two evils

[gray fable]

will things go back to normal?

[rigid nimbus]

this is a bad look imo

[golden mirage]

Bad for who?

[hasty grail]

given all the issues with people clipping thor out of context, im all for not releasing the vods for a few weeks

hopefully by then people will have moved on

or enough of them

[muted robin]

only if you don't think about it at all from the pov of thor and the mod team

which in fairness the internet is always ready to demonstrate its stunning lack of empathy

[rigid nimbus]

there are mirrors people clip from regardless

[lapis tartan]

Thor could save a baby from an Emu and they'd hate Thor for stealing the Emu's lunch.

[dusk pine]

while it stinks to not get the VODs since I'm not able to be up for most of the streams, VODs are a privilege and when bad actors start abusing that privilege it makes sense to not keep them up.

[muted robin]

unless the critique is "what about the people who pay tts and want to access their clips later" i really don't think it's the place of self righteous people on the internet to go "oh yeah? you're being harassed by thousands of people at once? well it's a ✨ bad look ✨ to try to take away an avenue that people are using to farm hate on you"

it's easy to talk crap about principles or standing your ground or doubling down or whatever people are saying about taking the vods down, but i guarantee 95% of people would do the exact same thing in thor's situation and that's why i can't take it seriously

it's overwhelming when you're being cyberstalked and harassed by 1-3 people (speaking from personal experience) i can only imagine what it's like when it's tens of thousands

[toxic rampart]

Yesterday, I lost my phone charger and had to spend like 10 minutes looking for it.
IDK how but Thor moved it downstairs to the hobby desk.
Smh my head.

/j obviously

I'm just going to start blaming him for everything in life like the boogie man or Obama.

[gray fable]

I ask again. will things go back to normal?

[lapis tartan]

Jerks online don't need a point or reason, they just wanna hate on someone. They're just trying to hide any honest perspective just to stay mad.

[hazy storm]

Only the internet will be able to determine that

[toxic rampart]

https://tenor.com/view/hitchhiker's-guide-to-the-galaxy-what-is-normal-cows-gif-3724793829717928868

[azure glen]

Define normal

[gray fable]

being able to think about positive things

[ocean agate]

haunts my nightmares......

[toxic rampart]

You can do that. Always.
It may be hard given the .. well.. waves arms wildly but there's always something to be positive about if you let yourself find it.

[brittle jacinth]

its less than before (when it started) but there's still people coming in to stir things up

[muted robin]

people will get bored eventually but every piece of controversy will never be forgotten and will become the new normal

so you can bet ppl are going to come in every single time anything about SKG comes up even if thor never talked about it again

[turbid flower]

Just remember. Thor's main message for the channel is still, "go make something". It doesn't have to be good or perfect. Be proud of the process of making that thing.

[gritty tartan]

I thought it would be right before the Ross video, but now I don't even know anymore.

[muted robin]

it's been over half a year since the HC wow drama and people still haven't let that go so lol. lmao

[flint sinew]

[azure glen]

Only you are stopping yourself from thinking positive things, once you allow this for yourself it will happen. And for the stream, it is calming down a bit though Thor has become for a certain group of people the embodiment of a meme so they won't let it go. The only thing I can advise is ignore them and keep away from the drama corner of the Internet. Also come watch ferrets, they are chill.

[hazy storm]

Hi

[toxic rampart]

cheese it

[hasty grail]

https://tenor.com/view/cheese-gif-9664358953963964416

[toxic rampart]

And real talk.
For as loud as a group can be, it's surprisingly easy to tune them out online.
Don't subject yourself to things that stress you out.
Easier said than done sometimes but believe me, it's doable.
Just enjoy yourself.

Heck even here there's so many corners of interest you can find a happy spot to chill in with others.

[turbid flower]

Props to the mod team for helping to make that a reality

[toxic rampart]

Seriously

[gritty tartan]

I don't even know why I became so stressed about this situation. Maybe it's because Thor's streams were one of the few chill places on the internet, and a break from my real life — without stupid drama, politics, drama farming, and other horrible stuff. I even liked all the WoW streams, because they were fun, despite the fact that I don't like WoW or WoW-style MMOs.

[gray fable]

its because there are people out there who are willing to cut off empathy out of others because they lost it themselves

[red halo]

Random thought now that I think about it, before the corporation was made Thor, Shaye, and Stijn were all pirate software, after the corporation was built all of the mods and anyone thor hired on are now all pirate software. This means that since Pirate Software can have bread, the mods can have bread and greggs

[tough wind]

You're right, it's bad. The problem is that people WILL HAVE a recording, via clips or anything. Deleting the VODs will only hide the full context instead of the clips

[flint sinew]

🔥

[umbral gazelle]

Even with context it doesnt matter to the hate mob

this way they just get less content to hate over

[tough wind]

nah, it's the opposite. By hiding the context people will see like he's hiding his faults

[hasty grail]

for something to watch tonight, current SGDQ lineup with TF2 run starting now

[hasty grail]

they clip him out of context regardless

doesnt matter to those people

[tough wind]

they'll clip even if the VODs are deleted

Hiding the full context is worse

[hasty grail]

i think at this point its personal decision on what you think the lesser of two evils is

there is no right answer which sucks for all sides

[umbral gazelle]

they do that already

we are currently in a no win scenario

[gray fable]

im the type of person who look at these kinds of situations and go "I wish there was something i can do to make it better" so seeing all the drama but being helpless just hurts.

[umbral gazelle]

The best thing you can do is not participate keep watching stuff keep making cool shit. That is the way you win over these people

by living as if they dont exist

[gray fable]

i know what can be done to fix things, but its clear that the solution is something no one would want

in fact i believe its a solution that can never occur

[tough wind]

A lot of other streamers gave the answer to fix things so many times before, the hole is too deep now

[hazy storm]

We can wish it so but unfortunately based on our interactions with these people and by what i see on yt/reddit/twitter these people don't care about context. They only care about getting ammo to make more "gotcha" vids. Making context available won't help thor if they don't care about context on the first place

[minor nymph]

This.

[hazy storm]

If thor is "hiding" his faults they are more than happy to make them up wholesale

[tough wind]

right now you're assuming NO ONE cares for the context, which is wrong. There's a lot of people out there being "manipulated by the out of context" clips. If you show them the full context, engage on a debate and show how things really are, you did better than most people who just go ad hominem everyone

[minor nymph]

I will just keep making things and streaming.
Fine with that tbh

[minor nymph]

Some people do which is why I fight some of the narratives.
There are simply too many to argue over though so at some point I just go whatever.

[hasty grail]

https://imgur.com/srYsWqk

Thor, have a 40k funny

i know others have seen it

[hazy storm]

I get where you're coming from and i see your point. But from my pov they're more than welcome to join a livestream to get the context or join the community like you did and we will be happy to share the context.

[silver vapor]

Notch is him

[hazy storm]

A vod is just one way to get context not the only way

[tough wind]

Well, actually, it's the only way. Any other way can be manipulated.

Clips? Manipulated. Youtube video? Manipulated.

[gray fable]

if i had to guess, thor deleted the vod, but not the recording? unless he isn't the type to record AND stream at once with OBS and whatnot. but on the brighter side of things im feeling better

[tough wind]

The only way of knowing the full context is through VOD and VOD alone, if you're not on stream

[hazy storm]

Well by that point it all comes down to trust. Do you, by what you see of thor and the community your talking to, trust thor and community to be honest with you about the context of a situation?

If people come at it with a closed mind and aren't willing to trust an explabation given in good faith, and can only rely on a VOD, then there's little we can do to change their opinion

[muted robin]

something something you can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into

[hazy storm]

Because at that point even a vod won't be enough because they'll only look at it from a negative lens to confirm the bad things they heard

[muted robin]

what you've got to understand is that the goal isn't truth and honesty, the goal is hate farming and hating thor, so every single piece of evidence or attempt at communication will be interpreted in whatever way it has to to make him look bad

[hazy storm]

And we have seen many people here who do just that even if we give them the vod

They're looking for excuses to distrust the evidence

[muted robin]

thor doesn't say anything, he's hiding from criticism. thor responds to criticism, he's doubling down/attacking/can't take criticism

he goes to someone else's video, he's having a meltdown/crucifying them/attacking them, he makes his own video, he's cherrypicking the worst/pettiest drama to make himself look better!

[golden mirage]

Dude, these things have been happening on the scale of months. The only way to get full context is to be there when it happened, watching every stream and watching the streams of other participating in the drama. You either watch everything or deal with not having full context.

If you actually care to know more about a situation, just ask. Complaining about not having full context is just a cover to argue over something that really doesn't matter.

[muted robin]

there's also just using what's already available online to make inferences on if someone is full of bullcorn or not

like wow. i wonder if these accusations of thor hating piracy make any sense when he's made multiple shorts/pants about how piracy is an issue of lack of access and how he doesn't blame people for pirating if it's legitimately their best option

at some point people just need to use critical thinking and look at the evidence that's already available instead of going "debate me/show vod/address allegations/apologize right now!!!"

[distant rapids]

Providing context is good for those on the fence. The issue is that most of the fence sitters have chosen a side or chosen to not care, so providing further context is ignored. They just wanna spam mana and quote buzzwords all day now, so yeet goes the weasels

[muted robin]

i mean hell people who have talked to piratesoftware personally one single time still get dumped on as shilling for him if they so much as comment on the stupid wow hardcore drama

it's simple, they begin from the conclusion of "thor sucks" and retroactively interpret everything from that lens. there's no point conceding to these people or buying their pretenses of "just wanting a discussion" lol

[distant rapids]

It is a blessing in disguise.... now thor has a guarantee to not have: completely toxic people or nutsos who think telling people to kill themselves, be a part of his community. The riff raff has sweeped itself by reeing in the ban corner

[soft vector]

They are now trying to drag Primeagen into this.... Thankfully he has no interest in getting dragged in

[muted robin]

who is that/what's their relation? (genuine)

[minor nymph]

Prime and I have a podcast together

[soft vector]

He's a programmer who also streams and is good friends with Thor

[minor nymph]

It means they are running out of ammo

And need to make up more.

[muted robin]

ah, the hack and stache one?

[soft vector]

Yeah

[hard jackal]

Correct. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
https://www.youtube.com/@HackAndStache

[muted robin]

it's also an isolation tactic people online like to use for suicide baiting. make someone's life hard but also make the life of anyone who associates with them hard so that they ditch the victim and stop supporting them

[ocean agate]

poor caboose

[muted robin]

thank you for the link, genuinely forgot about that

[hazy storm]

That's a vile tactic

[brittle jacinth]

yeah but its the most destructive

[hazy storm]

Probably why those freaks like it

[minor nymph]

Yep

[lapis tartan]

https://tenor.com/view/sniff-ron-burgundy-anchorman-will-ferrell-comedy-gif-5087478888992637140

[lucid crest]

all i know it bothers me and i am Not even near the center of it So i can only hold everyone in the middle of this Gets the care they need and are talking to pros about the stress

[hazy storm]

Did that mensa dude leave

[tough wind]

nope

why?

[muted robin]

all i can say is, everyone here, i hope our usernames are touching on the screencaps ppl steal from this discord to spread more drama

[hazy storm]

Oh good your her

I was hoping to continue the discussion

[tough wind]

Right. You were talking about people who only see the negative side and watch the VOD through negative lens. But that's not all of the internet. There's A LOT of people who are not into the internet drama and, when you show those discussions, would like to see the full context.

But I see what you want to say

[tight bramble]

"Tonight! On this episode of Mega Thor and Tiny Prime!"

Sorry that picture is funny lol

[tough wind]

You're more concerned now on damage control

[hazy storm]

Yeah and while you're right the vods would be a powerful tool, they're also something that can be used against thor. And having the vods down is the lesser ofv two evils

[hazy storm]

Yeah u get it. Thank you

[tough wind]

There is the thing. I don't think like that. I genuinely think that having the full context to whoever wants to see the truth is better than hiding the VOD and let them think they're right

But I see your point

[hazy storm]

And your allowed to have that opinion. You're not wrong. But ultimately it's not our choice

[lusty charm]

As someone who only just glanced at this chat, how many/which vods got removed?

Out of curiosity

[late bane]

The majority of people who are falling for the Internet reaction/drama streamers are not looking for the truth or context. I think it's a mistake to try to reason with unreasonable people. What would be the point in helping a small number of people in the mob change their opinion. They are not going to champion that opinion because the mob will shout it down.

[tough wind]

the VODs where Thor reviews SKG for the first time, also some of the last ones

[lusty charm]

Ah I see

[silver vapor]

[lusty charm]

I mean the damage is mostly done with those right? Like the "This is shit/I won't supprt this/the mask falls" bits have already been clipped to death I would think. What has the stated reason been to take them down? Not trying to start anything just trying to catch up since I don't know where to dig

[muted forge]

He is too tired to deal with rage-bait comments on those VODs so delete

[tough wind]

the reason seems to be "damage control". Avoid people getting other bits out of context

[modest coral]

well as desxerto wrote thor said it would damage live service games. and yes it would. that was the issue he raised. and was now people are claiming is wrong. but nearly all suggestion have seen is gonna damage live services games.

thors claim jumping in water makes u wet. and people disagree with him

[silver vapor]

[modest coral]

high tier journalism

[tough wind]

People are also criticizing his name calling in the VOD

[distant rapids]

Of all the places to get it partially right im amazed at dexerto they were #1 source for all gamergirl bathwater news

[lusty charm]

Who is claiming that its not going to hurt the live service industry? Of course its going to devastate the currant live service model, thats the point, to prevent these componies from killing the ability of people who purchase something and want it accessible/playable in some way. Right?

[modest coral]

oh dexerto just posted an artical about 100k apperently unsubbing from his youtube.

[muted forge]

Sad too see PS still bleeding sub from this

[muted forge]

More than this since the SKG update

[wet storm]

Your response and name hit me in the giggle bone

[silver vapor]

[umbral gazelle]

What a surprise the people who live off expoiting people are making more drama bait.

[modest coral]

as someone who has spend most of my workday walking some guy thru laws. The issue i have found boiled down that started this is. Ubisoft dont sell games they sell non-permenant licenses. and Did everything according to the Eula. so when they brought ubisoft to court over the crew. ubisoft didnt break any laws. so now they are trying to make laws. since the crew lawsuit got tossed. for not breaking any law

[flint sinew]

giggle bone

[modest coral]

people dont read their contracts. cause in 1.1 of the ubisoft terms of service. it said in all caps u buy a license not a game

[lusty charm]

That is the point of the initiative from what I understand yes

[wet storm]

Yes, you hit it and I go hieheiheieh

[modest coral]

the company did everything by the book. but we hate that so we want to make a law so they did a crime

[soft vector]

The thing that I find the dumbest in almost all of this. Games typically die because No one is playing them anymore. So ok, have fun playing your live Game with no one else online

[lusty charm]

To make sure that going forward, if/when it gets passed into law in whatever form it takes that the crew (Or even Anthem as a more recent example) doesn't get pulled

[flint sinew]

but i hear cracks when i hit mine...hmm

[silver vapor]

sounds great, as long as I can play it and not boot the title screen and nothing

[lusty charm]

Not so they DID a crime, so that the percieved crime can't be done again, its not like this is going to be retroactive

[wet storm]

Maybe if someone else hits it all you crack is a smile 🙂

[modest coral]

you did everything fully according to contract law. but i didnt read the contract and feels cheated so i want to make what u told me you were doing illegal is a wild take

[umbral gazelle]

Well enough of this drama! lets get back to cool things

[tough wind]

From what I've seen, the law wouldn't be for old games. It was made to assure that NEW games wouldn't be killed

[flint sinew]

true, it's too hot outside

[modest coral]

any law passed would just kill all games that could not follow the law. it would not stop all games be killed. it would just abort all games that could one day die

[lusty charm]

"This thing you did is shitty, I have no recoarse as things stand, so I'm going to do what I can through these official channels" doesn't seem that wild to me

[umbral gazelle]

did you know that an armadillo can run up to 48 kilometers per hour?

[flint sinew]

[lusty charm]

Damn son thats wild!

[flint sinew]

okay i know this will be on the test..

[wide coral]

They're not going to force companies to run dead servers

[umbral gazelle]

meaning Usian bolt is ALMOST as fast as the average armadillo

[soft vector]

How do you know that

[wet storm]

https://tenor.com/view/km-km-meme-wtf-is-a-km-wtf-is-a-kilometer-kilometer-meme-gif-14839816022793795860

[wide coral]

because they're just not lol

[lusty charm]

How do you know they ARE?

[umbral gazelle]

must resist talking about current events

[tough wind]

They don't need to if they provide tools to make private servers

[lusty charm]

DEW IT

[tough wind]

(Like Valheim, Astroneer, etc)

[modest coral]

but that the thing ending support and terminating an non-permanent license after 10 years is actually not shitty.

[wide coral]

Why would you ever provide tools to make private servers?

[soft vector]

I know for a fact one day Dune Awakening will die

[devout musk]

ah thunderdome must have been removed

[tough wind]

I'm afraid I'm not ok with the view of "it's fine, they're not selling games"

[modest coral]

that legally has been that way for the last 30 od years

[muted robin]

They also moved the goalposts to "yes i would love to destroy live service games" in a lot of cases

[tough wind]

So people can still play the game they bought if the official servers are down

[lusty charm]

So making a change is bad?

[wet storm]

It's such a colossal semantics fake win too

[silver vapor]

I mean EA did it for Battlefield 3 (2011), Battlefield 4 (2013) Battlefield 6 (2016) and they still own their IP while allowing people to play a game they havent supported for nearly a decade plus

[lusty charm]

The law sucks, SKG wants to change it, and isn't really asking that much

[wet storm]

"Even when you buy a dvd you're only buying a license" yeah but DreamWorks doesn't have a killswitch on my blu ray copy of Shrek

[distant rapids]

Ehhh... waves hands. They can ask for much more than they have said behind closed doors.

[tough wind]

Somebody once told me

[lusty charm]

Even god can't kill my sweet green love ogre

[hasty grail]

the world was going to roll me?

[wet storm]

The license is there so I don't pirate the game or movie, not so Shrek can be detonated

[lusty charm]

Nothing will get between me and the shrok

[wet storm]

I ain't the sharpest tool in the shed

[hazy storm]

I said yep

[hasty grail]

https://youtu.be/L_jWHffIx5E

[silver vapor]

Shrek is Love, Shrek is Life

[lusty charm]

If buying isn't owning pirating isn't stealing~

[flint sinew]

is this making a return?

[wide coral]

Don't you have to rent a server for this?

[silver vapor]

Hey, Notch the Creator of Minecraft said that, he seems like he knows what he is talking about

[lapis tartan]

Got the new Shrek movie on the horizon?

[distant rapids]

Your attempts to derail are obvious but. I abide by the shrek. Omg i dont have a single shrek enotw this is heresy

[lusty charm]

John Minecraft himself?

[hasty grail]

didnt Notch also say some stupid crap after selling Minecraft to Microsoft?

[tough wind]

He also said transphobic shit

[wet storm]

'twas merely an example, it's not my fault the world is unified under Shrek

[modest coral]

there is alot of Legal frameworks intertwinded that need to be Redone for SKG goal not to ruin the industry. and i am not confident that an movement with 1.2 people behind it will make the lawmakers change software IP right. Music IP laws. and gaming IP laws enough to work

[hasty grail]

thats right, its been a while and i couldnt remember how close to JKR he was speaking

[silver vapor]

Yes, which would seem like a good thing to do as its a revenue source that the company can use and will allow ownership of the IP and Servers, AAA should be able to do that easily

[lusty charm]

Crazy, its almost like people we like can have shitty opinions Glances worriedly at deleted vods (Mostly kidding)

[lapis tartan]

Oh no, Notch being a public figure has good and bad takes and depending on what you focus on can make him a hero or villain? Oh boy if only people knew...

[dire wedge]

the reason software are licensed and not sold, is to protect intellectual property (so that people can't profit from other people's work). But taking away product people already paid for is pretty shitting and I don't care what the EULA says, nobody reads that shit anyways.

[silver vapor]

only if people knew.....

[hasty grail]

weird bed fellows and all that

[modest coral]

EULAs, or End User License Agreements, are generally enforceable contracts if they meet certain requirements, such as clear acceptance, reasonable terms, and consideration. Cases like ProCD, Inc. v. Zeidenberg have established the enforceability of shrink-wrap licenses, while 4DD Holdings highlights the importance of EULAs in government contracts and potential damages for unauthorized use

[tough wind]

And, if that would change the Game Industry, better.

[wet storm]

Legally, sure, practically it started at around 2012, and only really reared its ugly head last year

[tough wind]

I'm so f tired of megacorps buying studios to sell microtransactions on a bad sequel

[flint sinew]

also lets keep skg discussions at a minimum/to your own spaces, the channel for it was archived already

[umbral gazelle]

Armadillo facts are much cooler too

https://tenor.com/view/pangolin-roll-unroll-gif-27511107

look at tis

how cool is dat

https://tenor.com/view/spin-viralhog-wheel-exercise-armadillo-gif-22723479

[lusty charm]

There was a channel for it?

[umbral gazelle]

politics are technally a banned subject here

[lapis tartan]

I am now distracted and will fall into an armadillo rabbit hole for the next 6 hours.

[tough wind]

https://tenor.com/view/sonic-devil-diabolique-evil-gif-9725651736562738158

[lusty charm]

But

[wet storm]

The subject has been argued to death

[lusty charm]

But

But

[modest coral]

even if u dont read the Eula its still legally binding. in the eyes of the court

[lusty charm]

What about an infantile need to shitstir in main?

[wet storm]

Only diehard argumentatives who already made up their minds still argue the same points

It's all circles now

[flint sinew]

lets see what happens if you do

[idle hill]

I am watching with great anticipation

[wet storm]

Like a witch around a cauldron stirring a giant shitpot

[distant rapids]

Mods turn this man into melted cheese

[lusty charm]

An interesting thing I mentioned this morning when asking some questions about the coding jesus stuff.

Remember that while it seems all circles and dead horse beating to you, for someone like me just peaking in or asking these questions in this space for the first time, it may be the first time!

[flint sinew]

lactose intolerant

[wet storm]

American cheese is best because it melts without breaking

[lusty charm]

Fish react this man

[brittle jacinth]

yeah for like 4 days

[distant rapids]

Noooooo

[flint sinew]

i know, it's great

[wet storm]

I'm 100% aware that might be the case, and I am sorry to disappoint but it's like entering the gym looking to spar right after a tournament

[idle hill]

https://tenor.com/view/i-love-it-gif-18812641

[wet storm]

Everyone's knuckles are skinned, everyone's faces look like picasso

Naebody wanna spar

[muted robin]

https://youtube.com/shorts/2lx6lcj_dk4?si=JBfII9XimKoB5QvM cat version

[umbral gazelle]

pfffffffffff

animals are awesome

[distant rapids]

Wait is the horse reacts all referencing the horse waifu game all along

[lusty charm]

Also, and this might be a dumb question. But why minimize the chatter of a thing when new things are happening? Like I only jumped into the discussion noticing people talking about deleted vods which I assume is a relatively recent development?

[idle hill]

the topic has been thoroughly discussed, going in a downwards spiral into insults, threats, and slander

[wet storm]

There's been a lot of trolls recently and the discussions have not been productive anymore

[distant rapids]

Sometimes it works out! Sometimes it devolves into chaos. Honeatly, i think thor (and mods) just needs a break from it and that's valid to me

[wet storm]

Like you're fresh to chat about it but people are fatigued

[idle hill]

chat in your own spaces tho
this ain't the place

[hollow radish]

Because mods are paid employees and the discussion makes more work for them than the value it brings to the community is worth

[wet storm]

Heck I am pro SKG, even signed, and I don't wanna defend it anymore

https://tenor.com/view/green-mile-im-tired-boss-michael-clarke-duncan-gif-2375696290766999196

[flint sinew]

was about to reply, but yes, there is enough drama that's still tied to this that we keep track of as it appears and such, so while there was a channel in place for discussion, it's ultimately up to thor if and when he doesn't want to continue seeing such discussions within his space/within his community

[wet storm]

I'd rather just compare it to Shrek

[flint sinew]

again, the channel is archived

[modest coral]

forcing mods to read thunderdome forever is the 10th circle of hell

[distant rapids]

I was pro-skg, but wary... but yeah. I now just insta block anyone on yt that talks about it anymore

[idle hill]

man I'm just here to watch soft hairman play video game and give life changing gamedev advice

[distant rapids]

And remember folks... don't trust what you think about your life/accomplishments after 9pm.

[modest coral]

that when i get home from work and start my freetime oh man

[brittle jacinth]

why?

[idle hill]

but... I'm awake after 9pm more than half the time

[umbral gazelle]

Assume everyday on the internet is april first

[hollow radish]

Rude, I only appreciate my accomplishments after 9pm

[lusty charm]

I'm so torn cause on the one hand mods and even Thor are people and deserve to be able to breath and chill, but I also find the discussion (As long as civil) fascinating and wonder about what the reasonable boundaries for handling an employers social blunders/fallout from their stated opinions or methods of communication

[idle hill]

After 16-20hrs of being awake your thought process starts to deviate from normal, at 30hrs it begins to give an equal effect as being drunk

[distant rapids]

Oh it's an allusion to tired/night depression causing ppl to generally be too hard on themselves after that time.

[lusty charm]

I need someone way smarter then me to write a thesis on this shit lol

[wet storm]

https://tenor.com/view/bill-wurtz-how-bout-i-do-anyway-history-of-japan-gif-15710365

[lusty charm]

https://tenor.com/view/the-sun-is-a-deadly-lazer-gif-8691250

[idle hill]

Hey you. Yeah, the guy who's been up for 24hrs+ reading this.
Go to bed.
You can't keep working like this.
Take some time to get a fresh train of thought.

[tough wind]

https://tenor.com/view/bill-wurts-wurtz-hell-yeah-hell-yeah-now-we-got-business-hystory-of-the-entire-world-i-guess-gif-18117765

[lyric sable]

https://tenor.com/view/society-bill-wurtz-youtube-history-of-the-entire-world-i-guess-gif-25083675

[tough wind]

We live in one

[modest coral]

i only have 1 more work day before 3 week vactions of watch chineses drama all day like a couch potato

[lusty charm]

All right, now with the interesting shit mostly done I slither back into the darkness until I desire to see what this communities opinions on things are again

To the Shadows!

https://tenor.com/view/masters-of-the-universe-skeletor-mot-u-gif-5430301619065962680

[tough wind]

https://tenor.com/view/world-peace-world-war1-bill-wurtz-history-of-the-world-gif-8691293

[lusty charm]

Slithering noises intensify

[hollow radish]

I don't like that Thor will make a topic political by continuing to discuss it on stream but ban community discussion about it. I think dropping it was the right move for his team and his community. He did it for 10 months before responding. But now it's back in the limelight, and every time he responds to the endless discourse it generates, he only damages his own reputation as an apolitical figure by streaming his reactions to people's takes

[muted robin]

is it really "politics" to talk about things that are either 1. directly in your industry or 2. literally about you

[hollow radish]

Yes

[umbral gazelle]

Only cool animal facts for the next 5 minutes go!

[muted robin]

i kinda get what you mean i just don't think "apolitical" is the word i'd use

[lusty charm]

And just as I go to slither away I get dragged back in!

[tough wind]

industry is political, so...

[idle hill]

wat

[umbral gazelle]

An octopus has 3 hearts

[modest coral]

and 8 brains

[umbral gazelle]

Dolphins have accents

and give each other names

[minor nymph]

Dolphins are also awful animals.

[tough wind]

Scorpions can stay more time underwater without taking air than dolphins

[modest coral]

some octupus mate by rip of genitals and throwing it at females. but when i do it i am a creep. and has to many genitals

[lusty charm]

So I think I get what you're saying, but personally I am of the opinion that Sunlight is the best disinfectant, and at least for the thing that got my attention this time, deleting vods, is a thing that shouldn't surprise anyone when it reactivates those conversations

[hollow radish]

If they were people they'd be awful people, but they are animals

[minor nymph]

So instead they are awful animals.

[tough wind]

People are animals too

[idle hill]

People are animals too, cant forget that

[modest coral]

dolphines had good pr for a long time so we forget they are sex pest

[minor nymph]

People are also awful animals.

[umbral gazelle]

The horned lizard has blood beam eyes it uses to deter predators!

[hollow radish]

TRUE

[lusty charm]

Hurray we're all awful people and animals!

Worst of both worlds!

[minor nymph]

The Quokka is a good animal.

[tough wind]

Butterflies can feel their body desintegrate while metamorphosing

[umbral gazelle]

we recently got the giant squid on film for the first time but it was only a baby so it was tiny

[hollow radish]

ALSO TRUE

[idle hill]

Devious smile
He's plotting something

[modest coral]

aint dolphin like one few animals they will use other speices of animals for sexual relief?

[umbral gazelle]

a snail has 14000 teeth

[distant rapids]

The fence lizards' blood, when bitten by ticks, actually neutralluze/kill what causes lyme disease

[tough wind]

Dolphins, Orcas, Humans

[muted robin]

idk about "few" but they will do that

[modest coral]

some monkeys will use frogs

[tough wind]

mostly mammals

[hollow radish]

Capybaras and Quokkas should be more people's spirit animals. Their vibes are immaculate

[muted robin]

dolphins also bonk pufferfish to get high off of their venom(?) on purpose

[lusty charm]

Hey hey hey you leave the orca's out of this they've been earning brownie points with the whole yacht thing

[tough wind]

based

[hollow radish]

Reminds me of people who lick toads to get high

[distant rapids]

Omg i remember being so excited to see this

[umbral gazelle]

Humming birds are the only birds that can fly backwards

all other birds float backwards

[distant rapids]

Hydraxxes... well, hydraxxes are the freakiest animal

[muted robin]

casual geographic has a whole video called "when animals get elevated" or something that gives more examples

[lapis tartan]

Is that why they make some animals cry to drink their tears? Remember to stay hydrated.

[muted robin]

only man on the internet i trust to use euphemisms for "die" or "suicide" (because he's actually funny/smart)

[tough wind]

just like Eric

https://tenor.com/view/tears-sadness-cartman-gif-8292187

[muted robin]

unalive: stupid, juvenile, sounds like 1984 doublespeak
get put on a t-shirt: funny, original, memorable

[distant rapids]

Crabeater Seal teeth look like this.

[winter sierra]

ferrets are good animals

[modest coral]

chat i made a mistake. i want to confirm what animal engaged in inter-species sex and i regret it

[umbral gazelle]

Certain speices of ape participate in snowball fights

[hollow radish]

Horses and Donkeys make Mules

[umbral gazelle]

Rhinos

dont ask how i know

anyway

[tough wind]

dude just dropping minecraft lore

[distant rapids]

Horses, coyotes, wolves, donkeys, penguins....

[umbral gazelle]

sharks exited on earth before the current northstar had formed

[modest coral]

chat i dont mean sex that can lend to offspring.....

[umbral gazelle]

Sharks are older than trees

[modest coral]

on the list female chimpanzee with a cat

[tough wind]

please, stop there

[lapis tartan]

Now I wanna watch some Casual Geographic. That Gorilla one was really funny.

[winter sierra]

chimps have done it with a lot of animals... lets not get into that

[late bane]

What did i walk in on lol

[tough wind]

Humans with bats

[hollow radish]

https://tenor.com/view/winslow-odd-fellow-walk-in-walk-out-catdog-gif-8298707

[tough wind]

https://tenor.com/view/arrested-jail-south-park-randy-marsh-america-gif-14799719993156836572

[distant rapids]

Chat, do you want to know about the... piss shark

[idle hill]

quick asdfmovie flashbang

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KrHgLqKZ3Cc

[umbral gazelle]

i distracted chat with animal facts

it spread

[winter sierra]

this is general chat stuff streamchat

[hollow radish]

I do not, in fact, want to know about the ... piss shark

[winter sierra]

lol

[idle hill]

wait this is streamchat?

[winter sierra]

yea

[modest coral]

if u say a word. someone will think of an another word. and suddenly u gain the forbidden knowlegde

[idle hill]

I thought this was genchat 2

[distant rapids]

This is spicy genchat

[tough wind]

There's only ONE content for streamchat

[late bane]

Genchat 2, Thor's boogaloo

[winter sierra]

genchat after dark

[tough wind]

https://tenor.com/view/waterfall-stream-water-nature-gif-16275203

https://tenor.com/view/waterfall-stream-cascade-creek-water-gif-16395091

[idle hill]

His WHAT

[modest coral]

apperently 6-10% of all rams(sheep) are gay

the more u know

[winter sierra]

i can think of one more 🤨

[umbral gazelle]

25% of swans are gay and have one of the highest succeful offspring raising among anaimals

[winter sierra]

good for them

[modest coral]

swans are pretty gay to be fair /j

[tough wind]

https://tenor.com/view/water-is-part-of-a-deeply-inter-connected-system-flowing-down-stream-water-stream-gif-17820170

[late bane]

Swans are the bouncers of birds

[umbral gazelle]

Swans are considered an apex predator

[modest coral]

predator?

[umbral gazelle]

yep

meat eaters

[late bane]

I've had a few run ins, they are shockingly strong

[modest coral]

swans have no natural enemy?

[umbral gazelle]

has no one to predate on them

not in most envioments

[tough wind]

I can see why

[modest coral]

his predator is a fatboi

imagine one day look out you window and see a swan flying off with a wolf.

[tough wind]

I don't want to set the world on fire

[idle hill]

HEY DONT PUT HATE ON MY BOI SWAN
He's just living his life!

[modest coral]

so i went to google see if wolfs were apex predator i was told yes for their range. and i read further that wolf would back down from a brown bear. and a brown bear could beat them. that dont seem very apex to me

[umbral gazelle]

it depends on the envionment

no bears boom apex predator of the region

[idle hill]

Apex*
-# *unless proven otherwise (by brown bear)

[umbral gazelle]

ha!

exactly

[modest coral]

but its said they will co exist. to some extend

i dont think the label of apex is very well define and used

i think a brown bear can kill a swan

or a bald eagle

i think in a fight a bald eagle would beat a swan

[umbral gazelle]

probably not since the head and neck of a swan is used as a club

and it has talons as well

[modest coral]

Who said swans were apex predators. they are not even canivoars.

they are herbavores

[umbral gazelle]

sorry that was me

was mistaken

they are partial carnivores

they eat both meat and plants

is fish considered meat?

[idle hill]

yes

[umbral gazelle]

and shellfish?

[idle hill]

also yes

[tough wind]

nope

[idle hill]

what

[umbral gazelle]

oh no

what have i done

[idle hill]

in what world is fish not meat

[tough wind]

in my meals

[modest coral]

there is no such thign as a fish

[idle hill]

[tough wind]

hate fish

[modest coral]

they eat small fish sometimes they mostly eat pondweds

[tough wind]

they swin in their own piss

[idle hill]

Well I already dont eat fish you dont need to convince me

[modest coral]

its like cows eat insects if it on the grass they eat. but htey dont hunt for beetles

i dont know why i accepted swan were first apex and second a predator without a second thought

[winter sierra]

fish is so good

[umbral gazelle]

Right so what have we learned

never trust me

[winter sierra]

and also good for you

[umbral gazelle]

its 3am

and my critical thinking isnt working

[late bane]

Sleep

[idle hill]

we've learned to give our fish to @winter sierra

[winter sierra]

yesss i will take them

[modest coral]

same. i just toke that as a fact with no pushback

[umbral gazelle]

i think the very idea of swans being apex predators is just so enticing we want it to be true

[modest coral]

swans are mean and can break arms. that is apex predators bahavior NODDERS

swans hunts small human child and human are apex predators

[lapis tartan]

I mean, wolves having "alphas" isn't really considered a thing now. Though humans are way into it...

[umbral gazelle]

i think my brain confused it with it had no natural predators (where i live)

[modest coral]

are u also a daneman

or danewoman

[idle hill]

I just like bearded vultures

[umbral gazelle]

Yep that was completely wrong even the guy who "discovered" it was like "oh shit i got it all wrong "

yes

im danish

[modest coral]

denmark are famousely Low in preators

[lapis tartan]

Thank you for your pastries.

[umbral gazelle]

wolves just came back last year

[modest coral]

most animal that live here dont have natural predators since we kill all predators like 200 years ago because they keept killing chickens

[river cargo]

It's good that there is no vod sections now, but I think that also means removing the answered-tts channel

otherwise it just becomes confusing for people who want an answer lol

[modest coral]

apex deers are scary

[idle hill]

OHH WHATS THAT ONE DEER
the chinese water deer I think it was

[lapis tartan]

Oof, when deer come up, I think of wasting disease prions... Prions are scary yo...

[modest coral]

prion deez nuts?

[idle hill]

you first

[tough wind]

we taking turns now?

[modest coral]

okay get in the circle

its 4 am i will go to bed now

have a good time all

[winter sierra]

#ferretchat message

lol

before and after

[warped venture]

[tight bramble]

BREAD FOR THE BREAD MODS!!!!!

[tough wind]

https://tenor.com/view/dante-dmc-vergil-hakari-dance-hakari-gif-17164037716141997989

[fluid dome]

@minor nymph

[subtle gate]

[pliant basin]

One might say he's throbin for thorbin time

[hasty grail]

https://youtu.be/_jW0WrjwiVI

[distant rapids]

My favorite part is when he thorbs...

[tough wind]

This thorbs me

[distant rapids]

[hasty grail]

btw, ALLL the JJK spoilers for those not caught up with the manga

[indigo wadi]

this is just a chaos marauder

[brittle jacinth]

its MSI its normal viewers count

[subtle gate]

it's pointing up right...right?

is it gnawing on popcorn?

[minor nymph]

LOL

[serene valley]

I have no idea what I'm looking at

Oh wait, is that an ant

[subtle gate]

I think so

looks like an ant in a tube

[serene valley]

There was pixels on my screen but I couldn't parse them so it was confusing

[minor nymph]

It's the new campo queen

[subtle gate]

every time Thor posts something it's either a "new" scandle he's exposing or just a psy-op and I have no idea why

[wicked schooner]

Are those its eggs?

[minor nymph]

Cocoons but yep!

[wicked schooner]

Ooooooh

[minor nymph]

Nice and colorized now

Trying to play with color settings for better visibility

[late bane]

Cute little thing

Hope to see them on stream soon

[ember ember]

Thor casually building up his ant empire to take over the world

[hasty grail]

https://tenor.com/view/archer-you-want-ants-gif-4558909771686635810

[reef geyser]

Sounds like an Empires of the Undergrowth stream 👀

[minor nymph]

Better camera

Shes movin her babes around

[umbral gazelle]

Cool!

Finally putting that degree to good use eh!

Used to watch Antscanada alot

ants are cool

[lapis tartan]

Same, they still make a video now and again. Fun stuff!

[warped venture]

yoo almost missed antposting hours

[azure glen]

So you weren't ANTicipating them?

[warped venture]

aaaaaaaAAAAAAA

[minor nymph]

https://x.com/Dorizzdt/status/1943180658601529445

Scott (@Dorizzdt)

@ThornVaux @PirateSoftware There is zero meaningful difference between a for loop and hardcoded array indexes in GML when it hits the compiler. This is GameMaker. Your bottlenecks if you even hit them are going to be draw calls, pathfinding, collision checks, or I/O. Not five alarm assignments. GameMaker

X · Jul 10, 2025, 5:29 AM

Hey look, someone else understands GML

!fridge

[dapper raven]

The Legends were true! https://youtu.be/ZhRkxUDadUA

[restive copper]

New channel: Antsoftware

[red halo]

Lift.

[distant rapids]

Omg i have never seen the fridge vid before. Incredible. How did they hide interfacing with the fridge from the home depot staff. Incredible

[marsh forge]

at least this time it won't instantly get demonetized

[red halo]

About that the description says what happened afterwards

[distant rapids]

LMAOOOOO

[red halo]

Apparently that was nationwide? Not exactly sure rn

[ancient anchor]

holy shit wait thor has ants?

[swift star]

>AntsAmerica

[distant rapids]

Eh, that's what he said. But honestly if you have someone break into your house with enough time to fork with your fridge you have bigger problems 😂 its not like he did it over the network unless he used hotspot but chdjkgj

[marsh forge]

i just wonder how they enforce that - demo mode for every device (but what for devices without one?) or bothering everyone who starts fiddling with the goods?

[red halo]

Iirc it's code with no comments basically

[ancient anchor]

Explaining the reasoning behind your code is a million times better than explaining it's pure function

[distant rapids]

I comment the shit out of my code because i guarantee i will come back a month later like, wtf was i doing here

[ancient anchor]

because it often leads to having a million little methods that do individual things, self documenting often means bloat

[winged knoll]

function lightLamp(){
// This function's function is to light a lamp
}

[red halo]

Not sure on him but for me I'd rather see the library I use have some comments explaining what this section does rather than being expected to know just by seeing it, since it assumes that everyone is on the same level of understanding of the code

[ancient anchor]

I feel like this is just a bad faith argument for the two above examples, comment where needed...

[red halo]

I mean there's no point in not explaining what this part of the code does with a comment since those are taken off during compilation anyway

Which I assume is why most people who rather documented code rather than "self explaining" code thikks

[gritty tartan]

I don't know much about ants, but I do love this meme. Can't wait for AntsSoftware.

[swift star]

Inter-faction tyranid wars.

[pliant dome]

just to give a statement to this one. There are two extremes, first is self-explaining code with almost zero to none documentation, the second one is having a doc above each method... well and both are extreme, and if you're there your code is probably 💩
I think it's healthy to add comments above lines/segments of code that are like, not trivial, or you're doing something that does not seem right and is hard to pick up without additional context provided. Having this statement, in small new projects it does not make sense to have much, if any, documentation - if you're making decisions that do not make much sense straight from the beginning, there are other things than documentation you should focus on 😄

[winged knoll]

could be that english isn't someone native language, and sometimes words can be vague? (Just playing devil's advocate, i use both self explaining code + commenting)

[ancient anchor]

i'm of the idea that

1. All public facing surfaces need to be well documented through the languages doc comments feature (if applicable)
2. Code segments that perform seemingly irrelevant or obscure tasks need to be commented
3. DRY (Don't Repeat Yourself) more than twice, if it's used thrice, it deserves an inlinable method
4. No SLUMs! (Single Location Use Methods) - What is generally referred to as self explaining code afaict

performXTaskForDeath() -> Nothing, just inline the code.

5. If a setter/getter paradigm exists, use it.

entity.setHealth(amt) -> entity.health = amt

I use this to help reduce comment amount while balancing certain readability aspects without writing a method hell

[winged knoll]

i guess Thor mean excessive use of Self explaining code

Solidity standard require every function + params need to be explained

[winged knoll]

Because then you'd have to overthink on how to name your function > paralysis by analysis

[red halo]

Oh I think in Thor's context it was the dude nitpicking him doing small comments since the dude implied that all code should be self-explanatory, iirc anyway

[pliant dome]

honestly speaking, I don't think Thor is as much a programmer as he pretends to be 😄

[winged knoll]

data guys can be programmer too

but they barely write any comments

kek

unless our definition of programmers are different

[distant rapids]

I think it would drive me nuts to have every single word i say closely picked apart and analyzed!

[pliant dome]

I think they are, I am quite purist in this, do not consider QA, db, analysts and all other people to be a programmers per se

[ancient anchor]

This feels like a weird nitpick, given that it's a message switching method, the general rule for that file was probably comment everything

[winged knoll]

[red halo]

I don't quite see how that reduces readability? Is it cause it repeats itself?

[winged knoll]

jobcist

[marsh forge]

honestly at this point I'd start moderating according to the old 4chan rules... Mod doesn't like your take? enjoy your ban!

[winged knoll]

[distant rapids]

Fr. "I don't like your vibes. Rancid. Mod check."

[winged knoll]

Tbh you'd have to ask the guy yourself

[red halo]

I've had quite a few instances before where I thought I wrote my code in a self-explanatory way then came back to it like a week later and was severely confused, which is my own fault but commenting does help a lot to just read what this part does rather than decipher it when you're basically a slug looking at it

[placid plover]

people are insane. what do they want out of Thor at this point? a ukulele song apology?

[distant rapids]

Although honestly, having disagreement in a peaceful way shows a healthy community, not a echo chamber. So maybe we need sone extra vibes.

[red halo]

It's all moot anyway since it doesn't affect the code itself function wise, it just helps with searching and remembering what code does what even if self-explanatory

[marsh dove]

[placid plover]

we must min max vibes

[marsh forge]

i think like 90% of those people just want drama

[winged knoll]

It's fair to ask if their beliefs are different than the streamer (Thor)

[red halo]

He should bake an "I'm sorry" bread that when opened has the filling spelled with "lol not really"

[marsh forge]

facts are irrelevant

[distant rapids]

Number go up AND number go down... i like your cut, g

[marsh forge]

only drama

[placid plover]

[placid plover]

prob

[ancient anchor]

you're now changing the data types, keep them the same and repost that message

[distant rapids]

Hold on i need to do something like this

[placid plover]

yeah, like obviously its good to have a healthy discussion on opinions and beliefs. we're all different, but this is just too far tbh.

[winged knoll]

i think simon questions are okey

[lost sail]

https://manual.gamemaker.io/lts/en/GameMaker_Language/GML_Reference/Variable_Functions/bool.htm

[red halo]

In the first one yeah it won't need one, but since this is old code too you can see that in his context it's still needed based on how it was structured which is with 1 and 0

[winged knoll]

not the Coding Jesus guy

[pliant dome]

I think even the first piece of code has more comments than needed. If you're working alone, comments are there for you, once you return to the same pieces of code a couple months later. Start caring about some documenting conventions once you're working with other people 🙂

[red halo]

He could rewrite it to be more modern but like, if it works it works fine

[ancient anchor]

No point in needlessly rewriting your entire game to use not int flags

[placid plover]

if it aint broke, then dont fix it

[main ruin]

@winged knoll Watch your language

[winged knoll]

gotchu, it was a reference to CodingJesus tho, not Thor

[main ruin]

Yeah, still, not appropriate

That's all

[winged knoll]

He could mean "leaning too hard on self documenting code without extra comment"

[rain hazel]

I've always found it much easier to add a much commenting into coding as possible, so that when I come back to it several months down the line to make changes, it makes it easier to know what my past self was thinking when I wrote it

[red halo]

That is fair, it is quite broad but I'm fair to assume he means that not all code needs to be so good that it doesn't need comments, when in use. It can be shit and just have comments. I don't think he's discouraging code that's self readable but rather than code doesn't need to be self readable as long as it has comments

Since that's my understanding of what he meant

[rain hazel]

Oh no, I do what I wrote like "If X was found, we now do Y", since at times it's not just me that works on it, but any of the rest of the department (some of which can't code without AI help)

[ancient anchor]

offtop - i'd wish that proompting cursor with comments wasn't a requirement for corporate codebases these days 😆

[red halo]

It's gonna be fun for you because I have classmates that are in BSIT and only types with their index fingers, btw the prereq to enter this at my uni is to graduate in highschool as an ICT student who has already learned basic programming

[ancient anchor]

oh no grandma typing for the young generation

that's unfair actually, our grandparents had typewriters

[red halo]

Not sure, I'm assuming he's thinking on it as if it was that all parts of the code self-explains rather than some parts only?

[rain hazel]

I would class that as perfectly fine commenting as its logically laid out, and I'm sure even the most junior of our team would work out what that would do.

[red halo]

But if you give them a phone somehow they type like 60wpm which is insane

[rain hazel]

to be fare, commenting on punch cards wasn't possible 😉

[ancient anchor]

istg they're all going to have CTS by 30 though

[outer cobalt]

lets not pretend that self documenting code even does what you think it does. come back after 3 months and it no longer reads like waht you expect.

i rather more comments than less. keep everything in a codeblock so folks can hide it if necessary

no its not.

like its a good example of self documenting code falling flat on its face.

[winged knoll]

I don't understand the

    uint8_t current_cond = itstate ? ((itstate & 0xE0) >> 5) : always;

this part

[outer cobalt]

thats 1 month ago

[winged knoll]

the rest is kind of understandable

[ancient anchor]

yeah, no. that's not particularly self explaining... I can get it if i stare at it for a long while with access to a bin/hex/dec calculator

[outer cobalt]

please, at least link some code from linus or something lmao

its the junior-mid-senior meme again

write more comments - no you need self-documenting code - write more comments

[autumn ore]

It's a "ternary operator," basically a shorthand way to write an if statement.

[winged knoll]

the itsstate & 0xE0 >> 5 part

[red halo]

I think I'm seeing this more as a self-explaining to someone on your or above your level, which is what Thor is talking about as a bad practice. Cause to me I can't quite understand that, I'm not at the same level so I don't really see what it does

[autumn ore]

ah

[winged knoll]

i'm aware of ternary

[autumn ore]

bit shifting

[ancient anchor]

so

itstate ? ((itstate & 0xE0) >> 5) : always
if itstate g 0
  and 0xe0 then shift right 5
otherwise
  return 0b111

I'd comment
Take the top three bits and shift them to the end

[winged knoll]

yeah but why do you (&) it and then shift by 5

fun

[rain hazel]

least they didn't shift it by 6

[ocean agate]

from what i see. Thor's stance; comment code.

[outer cobalt]

if only there were a comment saying that this is according to some official documentation that requires this magic number at some date

[red halo]

Code

I have now commented code

[ocean agate]

lol, very good

[red halo]

Iirc thor also has a thing where hesrtbound will become open source if he ever passes, like a thing he needs to log to annually, but this is also something I heard like a year ago so like this basically an "it came to me in a dream" moment

[ocean agate]

he has it setup in his will to go open source, not a deadmans switch i would assume

[ancient anchor]

Honestly, the self describing version of that line could be
uint8_t current_cond = itstate ? ((itstate & 0b11100000) >> 5) : always;
because it clearly shows the mask and the non masked bits are also clearly right shifted

although i can appreciate it's easier to write a magic number

[red halo]

It'd be funnier if it was a switch and he gets lost in an island and eventually has a coconut friend named Khronoson and the plot is he has to come back in time otherwise heartbound will go open source

[ancient anchor]

i'm not sure that his custom dialogue enum with potentially obscure names can be fairly compared to standard widely known conventions

[minor nymph]

Oh look, banned a weirdo

Ragebait removed.

[ocean agate]

hi Thor

[minor nymph]

Hello!

[ancient anchor]

hi, i like your ants :)

[minor nymph]

The ants are cool.

[red halo]

I'm saving this as a gamejam idea now that I think about it

[distant rapids]

A ban a day keeps the cardiologist away i like the ants. I hope your new queen does good queen anty things

[minor nymph]

Likewise. She's doing ok atm and I have two backups.

[red halo]

When is OnlyAnts coming out?

[minor nymph]

But yeah, you're going to see a bunch of ragebait like that going forward.
Heartbound runs on a smartfridge and is perfectly fine for the system that it is.
Too many armchair experts that are coming out of the woodwork to shit talk for no reason.

!fridge

[dapper raven]

The Legends were true! https://youtu.be/ZhRkxUDadUA

[minor nymph]

Shits efficient, works for our localization team, and is well documented.
Nothing else matters.

[rain hazel]

aye long as it works

[ocean agate]

yeah, there is a plateau to everything anyway where at some point, who cares. people do what makes life easiest. either easiest now or for themselves in the future, "best" is so subjective

[minor nymph]

The reason it takes me so long is due to the number of routes I have to write.
Not the implementation of said routes.

Example.
Next update contains this.
||You went to lunch with Fern.
-You went to Judgement
--You told Fern you wanted things to be this way.
---You followed through and hurt the Mossbacks.
---You didn't follow through and treated the Mossbacks well.
--You told Fern you didn't want things to be this way.
---You didn't follow through and hurt the Mossbacks.
---You followed through and treated the Mossbacks well.
-You didn't go to Judgement
--You told Fern to follow her Heart.
---You had three baskets filled.
---You did not have three baskets filled.
--You told Fern she better play it safe.
---You had three baskets filled.
---You did not have three baskets filled.
You went to lunch with Rhode.
-You went to Judgement.
--You killed Rhode.
--You didn't kill Rhode but you won.
--You lost to Rhode but moved.
--You lost to Rhode but never moved.
-You didn't go to Judgement.
--Rhode asked Fern out.
--Rhode was too afraid to ask Fern out.||

[lapis flame]

you can spend hours refactoring your code and achieve nothing of value

[rain hazel]

90% of my code could be much better, but it does what it needs to do, can be followed, so why complicate matters

[distant rapids]

Oog i cannot imagine writing so much dialogue. I remember trying to make a game with rpg maker when i was a youngin and realizing that wow, thousands of lines of dialogue was NOT my jam

[minor nymph]

This room alone has ~750 lines of dialogue and it needs to take into account every action that came before it that is relevant to the character you're talking to from their perspective.

There are over 100 rooms in the game, some smaller, some larger.

[red halo]

Oh yeah, recently twitch has fixed the sms verification sending process in my country, after 5 months of emailing them it's been fixed. I will return to watching on twitch as it finally has 2fa (albeit it has sms but eh better than none)

[minor nymph]

Now make that work in 6 languages.
English, French, Russian, Japanese, Spanish, Brazilian Portuguese.
Now make the puns work in each language.

[lavish bramble]

Absolutely insane and unhinged for an indie [positive]

[ancient anchor]

is TOTP based not available for you?

[distant rapids]

holy shit dude i do not envy you for that. But you're trucking along at a good pace. You've actually inspired me to get a monthly "update" to myself for my own game to at least keep myself motivated.

[minor nymph]

THIS is why Heartbound takes so long.
Not some weird ass framework efficiency issue.
It's literally just me writing 100% of the time and I am slow as fuck at it.

Everyone is trying to make it something else but it's really just writing lol

[outer cobalt]

maybe we should just ignore europe

[red halo]

Nah it's more like I couldn't turn it on either way until I managed to put a phone number in, which I couldn't for like a year or 2

[outer cobalt]

data entry and localisation is the bane of game dev

imagine AI solves puns

[true roost]

Ron Swanson is that you? lol

[split tulip]

I think I see now why most rpgs try to keep major choices to a mimum, cause that is a lot. Makes for å very unique experience tho

[ancient anchor]

that would mean ai has to be moderately funny first

[lapis flame]

i find it so funny that the guy couldnt tell the difference between C++ and GML

[minor nymph]

The framework is quick and easy to work with.
It's just writing the dialogue that takes me forever.

[red halo]

To turn on 2fa I needed a phone number on my account and I couldn't add it because the verification code never got sent. Now it works albeit mostly since the other data provider for some reason still won't get the code

[minor nymph]

Bingo.

[outer cobalt]

the older i get the more i get ron

[distant rapids]

It's always the weakest skill- link that gets ya... I'm the slowest at making assets and textures. Guess who decided to rebuild every asset and every level from the ground up? Why do gamedevs like pain? Its a mystery

[minor nymph]

Part of making sure the dialogue makes sense is getting into character.
Reading all of the bits leading up to this from that characters perspective.
Making sure the writing is true to them and not my own internal voice.
Making sure I'm including only things they would know and nothing the DM (me) would know.

etc

[ocean agate]

something thats so lacking people forget what its like imo (choice matters lacking is what i mean)

[placid plover]

yo Thor, I just wanted to quickly say thanks for inspiring me to make games. I'm learning godot right now. u keep going my dude

[minor nymph]

Never stopping.

[dusky grove]

Writing in the voice of the character is a tough task. I slip up with that all the time

[outer cobalt]

ye

[minor nymph]

Same.

[distant rapids]

You're basically writing a 1 million word plus fanfiction right now that also runs itself and is interactive. Mad respect. I recommend a world builder website if you dont already have one for keeping characters /world details down

[red halo]

I have a quick question thor. Should I buy a pet skibidi toilet as my Rubber Ducky for learning?

[minor nymph]

It's like being a DM in a campaign of 10 characters and you play them all.

[dusky grove]

...

what the...

[placid plover]

[ocean agate]

i cant wait to see what we get to vote for the theme of the game jam this year. i hope you have some great choices for us to vote on

[lavish bramble]

Based on your current pace and how much you have planned out, do you have a rough ballpark for how much time it'll take? Just out of curiosity.

[minor nymph]

It's time to burn down the earth.

[red halo]

I'll take that as a yes, I'll come back to that stall eventually and buy one then

[minor nymph]

When Animus is done the rest will be a breeze.
The Tower didn't take me long, like 4 months for the lions share.
Animus is ALL interpersonal interactions so it's taken forever.
Jotunheim is next and VERY directed.
Here, one sec.

This is Animus

The only thing I need to finish for the zone to be finished is this.

Once these two rooms are done the act is done

The rest is post-act secrets and storyline like Floor 0 in The Tower

This is Jotunheim

[placid plover]

woah

[true roost]

I keep picturing Thor as being Mr Incredible in Incredibles 1 as they're flying towards the city. "We get there when we get there" lolol Take your time and don't worry about the hate. You're doing great!

[lavish bramble]

Oh damn, that's hella cool. Thank ye for sharing!!

[minor nymph]

Here is the rest of it

[ocean agate]

shows how organized Thor is being. its a great way to help stay on task and make progress

[minor nymph]

I show it off on stream all the time

But the people buying the game to review bomb it dont give a shit about that lol

[ocean agate]

sad but true

[ancient anchor]

how sad do you have to be to spend money to hate someone

[minor nymph]

And they are actually buying it to review bomb it and then refund it.
Our sales increased 3x throughout this.
Tons of 0.1 and 0.2 hour reviews too.

[ocean agate]

they request a refund, so its just time/energy wasted

[red halo]

They get to refund it so they don't see any problem with it

[ancient anchor]

oh..

[minor nymph]

They just want to hurt me, they don't give a fuck about the game.

[red halo]

I honestly just wish one of them buys it, plays it a bit, got hooked then can't get a refund anymore

[placid plover]

at least this is funny

[true roost]

I was thinking the same thing buy the game to hate and end up loving it lol

[distant rapids]

I guess more of us will have to buy it and give honest reviews

[ocean agate]

game reviews are for games, not reviewing devs or their beliefs. idc if they worship eggsalad sandwiches, is the game fun?

[true roost]

oh i would happily join the cult of eggsalad sandwiches!!

[minor nymph]

Lots of them are trying to claim the game is abandoned despite the monthly updates.

[ocean agate]

well......for 1, its definetly not a CULT

[minor nymph]

Anyway, bedtime, storyline review tomorrow, then update launch if its not shit.

[true roost]

oh right yeah...totally not...just a friendly gathering

[ocean agate]

thats because they refuse to think that someone who talks shit on youtube didnt lookinto it for them so they dont think and just react

[rocky venture]

The notorius: Doesn't matter what I do, people just want to find reasons to dislike me.

[ancient anchor]

i'll make sure to buy the demo twice today

[placid plover]

Brb gonna go buy the demo

[distant rapids]

Have a good night! I bestow upon thee... dreams of pirate ferrets going to mcdonalds.

[red halo]

Ok I was looking at the emotes and wth is this Thube?

[distant rapids]

HES GONE POST THUBE

[placid plover]

G'night Thor

[distant rapids]

[rocky venture]

[red halo]

[split tulip]

https://tenor.com/view/ferret-black-footed-ferret-black-footed-goofy-silly-gif-7414558264260005310

[thin vector]

That’s so dumb

[ocean agate]

oh my

[rocky venture]

https://tenor.com/view/ferret-running-away-running-escape-animal-gif-14844387

[true roost]

omg this is the first im seeing this please tell me someone has this as a skin in MC and i can get it??

[placid plover]

I dont have nitro so heres an ice cube instead 🧊

[red halo]

Ngl I only saw the emote, I didn't expect it was actually named Thube

[split tulip]

https://tenor.com/view/ferret-attack-gif-24550066

[distant rapids]

I dont think mc would have high enough res but maybe someone else knows?

[ocean agate]

i wouldnt doubt it, i have seen some one running around as Thor in blockgame before the cataclysm, cant wait to see what the rebirth brings

[true roost]

We could surprise Thor by making a huge statue with his face on it! 😄

[ocean agate]

been done, but more cant hurt

[rocky venture]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1037106921452351528/1293482085058740245/ferret_hello_there.gif

[ocean agate]

or atleast i think i remember seeing it done

[tight bramble]

Sometimes, when you stare into the abyss, the abyss war dances back.

[strange ember]

There's ... 3 more chapters once you're done with Animus, right?

[brisk sparrow]

the next one is 2 sides of the same, and then the final chapter which we know nothing about

[hasty grail]

when thor gets to the final chapter and he shows off the state of things, i almost want just a large black box of [REDACTED] across the named areas

while leaving the % done norma

[brisk sparrow]

i mean thats basically what weve seen whenever he scrolls down that far in the progress document

[indigo wadi]

I'm done with reddit

I cannot even go to the viral meme page without coming across an Anti-Thor meme....

[winged knoll]

i wish they didn't use AI edit on Thor

[indigo wadi]

this wasn't even an AI edit

[winged knoll]

i mean i usually look at the thumbnail and skip

[indigo wadi]

it's the scene from robocop where Murphy has nothing left of him outside of his robot casing and the caption is a dig at Thor's subscriber count

[hasty grail]

hide post and most on

[gritty tartan]

That's wierd.. because robocop is a cool and good guy

[hasty grail]

thats what i normally do

wait

does that mean we get to make RoboThor?

quick, memers! theres a new idea

ROBOTHOR

[indigo wadi]

not really a new idea

Thor is AI anyways

[hasty grail]

fine

cyborgThor

[indigo wadi]

so

I'm trying Maple French Toast bagels...with syrup

[gritty tartan]

Damn, I need to finish the game. It's a little bit «meh» sometimes, but it's still fun.

[indigo wadi]

Robocop as a game was always an interesting idea to me, because what can actually be a threat to him?

[gritty tartan]

Excessive and brutal force. He almost got killed in the first movie.

[umbral gazelle]

Reddit is in such a horrid state its almost impressive

Mainly just been using it to look at motorbikes

[hasty grail]

depends on how deep you go

[umbral gazelle]

suddenly i just get spammed with drama

[hasty grail]

regardless

i hope everyone here has a good day

and Steam Summer Sale ends soon

[hollow trout]

just a question, are the percentages calculated based off on tasks you have or are they rough estimations you make according to your design and current dev progress?

[indigo wadi]

Yeah by like, other machines 😛

[strange owl]

Treat reddit like Thor treats his community.
Just cultivate it until you have a feed you like. block people, mute subs, stick to content you prefer.
Eventually it gets to a point where it's usable and somewhat non-toxic.

A few bad apples might get through but I see that as more of a "good, I got another one".

[indigo wadi]

I already cultivate one social media website. I'm not expending energies on doing it with another that I barely visit

[tribal canyon]

At least we have reached the Reddit stage of most people moving on and forgetting and the only people left are the karma farmers

[grim bloom]

reddit was peak in 2011

[tribal canyon]

Even starting to see the stage of them going and getting reposted to Instagram aka where memes go to die

[flint ember]

I pretty much exclusively enter reddit from search results these days.

[grim bloom]

i have 0 karma. honestly what i hate about reddit is that there is like no freedom of speech. anywhere. "you must have 98721987129848927459875 karma to voice your opinion" or the content filters get mad when you say crap

i would get my karma up just so i can post but then nowhere lets you post if you have 0 karma

[tribal canyon]

Up/down voting earns you karma too

[grim bloom]

ah idk

i might just quit reddit and take advantage of the discord forum feature and create a whole server with like 1000 forum channels lmao

[terse pelican]

So, Reddit 2.0 where people will just go Karma-farming with drama?

[grim bloom]

yes but i have power :O

nah jk i think it'd be a fun project

[terse pelican]

Insert Drama-Channels calling it a Echo-Chamber like they do every other Discord Server.

[opaque raven]

I JUST realized the Yearjoy is a play on Joeyray! 🙊

[terse pelican]

Yup.

[opaque raven]

🔥

[winged knoll]

I almost convinced myself to go to midcurve take channels about the current drama and convince them our goblin lord did nuffin wrong

But probably just do nothing and let it pass is the best kek

[terse pelican]

Ain't worth the effort

[serene valley]

Don't white Knight, it comes across worse than when people just talk shit directly towards you

[humble crag]

The mob is pretty wild isn't it.

I can't imagine being on the receiving end, it's got to take a toll no matter how strong your backbone is.

I'm glad the stream has been deemed a drama free zone, I prefer it that way. I don't come to watch the drama, just to chill and hangout. ☕

[wet storm]

Every community is an echo chamber

So you go to as many echo chambers as possible

And huff on that echoey musk

As soon as a thought appears it echoes with your noggin blaringly

[dusky grove]

The internet hate mob deserves an apology video like this one https://youtu.be/BnzN3zDKFEI?si=B9U5ftGt5MHTd402

[reef geyser]

It's crazy how pervasive the general lack of knowledge about how emotion impacts thinking is.

People acting in ways that they themselves would call out others for, and internally justifying it because "they're right."

Harassment, brigading, abuse, spread of unsubstantiated rumors, wholesale belief in any accusation without requiring evidence. All becomes out of control when a mob believes they are on the "correct" side of an issue. Everything gets put on the table. Like the religious crusades of old. Nothing is "wrong" when you're attacking a demon.

It's so frustrating to be a person who has a grasp on how the human psyche works, and to see entire swaths of people fall victim to it without realizing how wrong they are.

[ocean agate]

its double standards, you see it with any seperation of groups...gender (identity or other), religion, politics.....etc

[dusky grove]

Man... humans suck

[mental steeple]

Tribal mentality always rears its head. Just more complex tribes now

[mossy timber]

Man imagine praising Notch for taking a shot at someone else for not liking the wording of an EU initiative about gaming when he probably hasn't answered for his words that associate him with some groups far more terrible than Nintendo or Ubisoft

[ocean agate]

like stating someone is not human, so dont treat them humanely. sadly humanely is ment for the person inflictin pain to do the least amount because they can do better then an animal not for the one receiving it
so they misuse the word

[dusky grove]

I mean, people are multifaceted. Not to defend monsters, but isn't reducing someone to "bigotted monster" doing the exact same thing that those people do to marginalized groups

[mental steeple]

It makes it easier on the brain to make someone a monolith. The epiphany that everyone you hate is as complex and multifaceted as you is kind of hard

[tribal canyon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KFqzTOKTf8

[reef geyser]

Yep, and directly from evolved human nature. The conflicting evolved needs of mammalian community that drive us to protect other members of the species, combined with the tribal need to be able to override that portion of evolution to fight and even kill other members of the species for food or territory protection.

That same switch still exists to this day, the ability for us to have one set of attitudes that we enforce as the good and proper way to behave peacefully with other members of the species, but also the very manipulatable switch that was evolved thousands and thousands of years ago that allows us to override those standards and internally justify the most heinous things.

Frustrating not only how imprisoned we still are by those elements of our biological evolution, but even moreso, the lack of people who understand this about themselves. One of the hallmarks of enlightenment is to check your emotive thinking before it controls you. And to see so many people still prisoners of it is disheartening.

[dusky grove]

True. If it was easy we wouldnt have needed the thunderdome

[mossy timber]

entirely depends on what they did to get the label "bigotted monster" now isn't it?

[mental steeple]

not really

[dusky grove]

Does it tho? If its their ONLY accomplishment in life, then sure i guess...

[mental steeple]

"I wasn't born a monk. Nobody is." - Monk from Bulletproof Monk

[ocean agate]

well its like i tried to teach my kids how just because some one doesnt know something doesnt make them stupid, since i am sure they know more about something else you know nothing about. you just know different things, that means neither of you is better than the other, just better at certain things but you can all learn

[dusky grove]

I mean, I don't even have to name someone recent. America's founding fathers owned slaves but they aren't treated as monsters by modern standards

If one bad deed was enough to permanently tarnish a reputation, then history would have no heroes

[ocean agate]

it makes me wonder if epistein's family gets less hate than a content creators family who pisses off some reddit group

like thats how disproportionate ppl are

[jolly sky]

Lets be careful about that topic

[ocean agate]

ik, ik. just trying to make a point with something semi current

[mossy timber]

You must be off in just one corner of the internet if you never heard people tear down the founding fathers let alone the whole country and everyone of light skin on the issue of slavery, but that hard gets into politics

[jolly sky]

Yea, it's the problem where our brains are evolutionarily still in Tribal mode, and we went from being in those Tribes for 10's of thousands of years, to suddenly having access to almost every single "tribe" across the entire world in less than 100 years

[ocean agate]

i remember some one saying that if humans ever made Utopia the first thing they would do is destroy it because we can't live in a peaceful world, we are just not MADE to, and thats so sad

[jolly sky]

It's all about understanding all the way down from top to bottom on almost every conceivable level for everything, and some people just, choose not to try to understand and just jump to hate and justify it to themselves

[dusky grove]

I suppose, but i would argue that helps. I'm not american. This view of mine is likely shared by other non americans who learn about american history through pop culture osmosis.

Yes, there will always be people who will demonize someone over 1 aspect of their life. But many won't. It also depends on how bad the thing they did was.

Like, if the bad they do consistently dwarfs every good and neutral thing they contributed to the world then yeah they'll be remembered as monsters. But if its the other way around or somewhat even then you get mixed opinions

The only reason it flares up with people still alive today is because we live in the time where we are affected by those misdeeds

[jolly sky]

There's a perfect word that sums this up entirely. Sondor.

[dusky grove]

But once they're gone, its hard to tell how they'll be remembered

[mental steeple]

Sonder and Ego death, both realizing how small I am but in different contexts

[jolly sky]

Yep, both have sort of the same ending. Ego Death can be more...forceful, direct, and if you're not ready to handle it then it can be debilitating

[winged knoll]

I mean, the internet the week before condemning online bully when the girl in fox rescue took her life because of cyber bullying

Next week you have the whole interweb bullying thor