smoky kayak
numbers might need some tweaking, but overall it seems fine
OP buffing MS and something buffing OP are two very different things
cunning gull
Anyone help figure out what im doing wrong on my warrior. my dps is sooo bad keep getting kicked. I have tried 100 different macros its a build from the site.
fresh sierra
You’re using macros for your rotation?
cunning gull
well not fully
cunning gull
my first lvl 85 i followed
https://www.wowhead.com/cata/guide/classes/warrior/arms/dps-talent-builds-glyphs-pve
working twords this
https://www.wowhead.com/cata/guide/classes/warrior/arms/dps-bis-gear-pre-raid
pastel dirge
In general do you always (or ever) hold ms to first buff it with op once or twice?
naive sage
my first lvl 85 i followed
```
https://www.wowhead.com/cata/guide/classes/warr...
This is not the right channel, try #mop-discussion
(btw iirc I think you have low expertise)
rare kite
this is an arms build though : /
yea but wrong version of WoW. that's cata, this channel is for retail
fresh gazelle
Which arm build should i use? The one from wow head, dc or uggwow/archon? Im a lil confused
teal fossil
In general do you always (or ever) hold ms to first buff it with op once or twic...
No
slow saddle
Is it true that enhance is gettin a rework again, and arms gets nothing
wheat lagoon
yuh
candid pecan
I wouldnt say 1% dmg, 4% avoidance and 10% stam is nothing
but... yeah we could get a lot more
slow saddle
We dont need buffs imho
Well with the nerfs to bleeds...
Our class tree needs rework so badly
Give us a proper raid torment !
candid pecan
maybe.. bring back double bladestorm torment 
we should have warbreaker and blunt instruments at the same time, wdym we have to choose between aoe and ST
bring back cleaved unhinged for both specs
slow saddle
Nah
shadow ibex
we're happy with warrior
slow saddle
Fixx juggernaut
shadow ibex
nailed it with all 3 specs no reworks needed for an entire class
slow saddle
By killing it
rare kite
I wouldnt say 1% dmg, 4% avoidance and 10% stam is nothing
the avoidance is pretty funny. now we almost got back the avoidance they took, yes i know overall arms is getting tankier than dragonflight
smoky kayak
that plus everyone else got nerfed, so relatively speaking Arms is climbing up a bit
slow saddle
Climbing downwards
candid pecan
For raid, we're more than fine.
For m+, colossus ST is a bit low compared to other classes.
smoky kayak
we were talking about defensives
slow saddle
Im talkin dmg
slow saddle
Yeye im talkin more of a rotational thing
Kill mp totally
Replace jugger with s3 df 4p
Buff ep
Make sd count towards rage spend
Revert sks to old v
slow saddle
Make ms apply dw b4 dmg is calculated
smoky kayak
plucky fern
yeah how about 10% slam buff instead
slow saddle
Juggernaut is horrid
smoky kayak
It really isn't
smoky kayak
the only thing "horrid" about it was the lack of competitive options on the tree, which is something that's already starting to be addressed
slow saddle
Makes sd shit outside execute
plucky fern
agree i wouldnt touch something that is sometimes working anyway
we have like 6 COMPLETELY dead talents
slow saddle
Nah execute needs to hit hard all the time
slow saddle
Ip is tuning
smoky kayak
even without Juggernaut stacked up, SD is like 10% of Slayer's damage pre-Execute phase
smoky kayak
arguably fatality
Fatality is already being worked on
plucky fern
Fatality is already being worked on
nice to hear that
smoky kayak
Bloodsurge and IP need love I agree - IP is technically usable though not good enough imo
plucky fern
love the talent idea
smoky kayak
idk what's going on with Bloodsurge, nerfing it twice in 11.1 is 💀
but it's also an easily ignored talent, so not really a problem per se, so much as just wasted potential
plucky fern
yeah i was like 'they must be buffing proc chance significatly right'
but no its just a nerf
smoky kayak
I'd argue Storm of Swords is a bigger offender than Bloodsurge atm
plucky fern
to a talent with 0 pickrate
smoky kayak
but no its just a nerf
two nerfs lol
shadow ibex
storm of swords and dance of death
plucky fern
shadow ibex
idk how either of these made it thu
smoky kayak
Dance of Death is a lot better than people give it credit for
(mostly cause they've never even tried it)
shadow ibex
it doesnt even work with mbg
slow saddle
I also think remove mbg
smoky kayak
its biggest issue is just the talent point competition in the 3rd tier
plucky fern
because you dont even want to try it
aoe only option that is also conditional
and thats in the last row where you already are talent starved
im so tired of those 'aoe only' talents
shadow ibex
its impossible to take
slow saddle
Mbg makes aoe rotation worse
plucky fern
we have too many of those that do literally 0 impact in single target
you just cant justify picking more than one of those because ST is really needed in m+
shadow ibex
make fatality proc below 30% for bleed dmg on MS if u have to
plucky fern
bosses are no joke
shadow ibex
i just wanna stop playing ravager as colossus
fresh spire
Fatality has had a change, we are just waiting for comfirmation its correct.
smoky kayak
Dance isn't actually 0 impact in ST, kind of the opposite really - it's mostly a ST funnel talent
smoky kayak
Fatality has had a change, we are just waiting for comfirmation its correct.
Yeah I already mentioned that
fresh spire
👍
shadow ibex
i think making dance of death tied to spending rage during ravager you'd have something there
extend it and get more MSs or w/e
but idk what u can do with BS
smoky kayak
the idea is that you drop Ravager into a pack that's gonna get blown up anyway and get extra ticks/unhinged procs onto the boss
BS works the same way, just not really as cleanly (since BS itself is kinda weak)
plucky fern
Dance isn't actually 0 impact in ST, kind of the opposite really - it's mostly a...
and how many uses of that can you find in current m+ content
i can think of like 2 bosses where that is actually viable
slow saddle
Ovi
shadow ibex
i mean its a lot of work for a single talent for sure
plucky fern
nw first boss, db 2nd boss
smoky kayak
and how many uses of that can you find in current m+ content
i can think of like...
I mean are we talking strictly about M+?
slow saddle
In raid arms works ok, exept for the whole juggernaugt lucky or not
plucky fern
idk, can you even consider picking that in raid? dont you need to pick jugg
shadow ibex
lets say you play it on queen and kill webs with it on queen...a talent point for x2 MS during unhinged?
plucky fern
if you pick jugg you just cant pick dod its impossible
shadow ibex
no way thats worth what you lose
smoky kayak
idk, can you even consider picking that in raid? dont you need to pick jugg
Well you don't have to give up Jugg to get DoD, but I already said that the biggest problem with the talent was the point-competition in the 3rd tier
shadow ibex
i'd have no problem if it was where like bloodsurge is
but if its gonna be an aoe talent at bottom of tree gotta be more there
fresh spire
im wondering if bloodsurge is unfinished and will be buffed on next notes
plucky fern
it cant be tho because ravager is in the last section
fresh spire
hard to say when they say this is part 1
fresh spire
new notes hopefully after new years 🙏
shadow ibex
hard to say when they say this is part 1
only buff that would open my eyes
is something besides rage
smoky kayak
TBH the biggest problem with the third tier, other than Execute stuff generally being much better than everything else, is Valor in Victory
fresh spire
you have yet to see what happened to fatality
shadow ibex
really arent pressed for it
slow saddle
At least make jugger 5 stacks not 15
shadow ibex
you have yet to see what happened to fatality
i mean
smoky kayak
the 3rd tier should have looked like this
shadow ibex
is it a 30 sec long bleed
smoky kayak
removing just that 1 point gate to BS/Ravager would dramatically shift the talent point economy
plucky fern
whats the choice node with unhinged
smoky kayak
whats the choice node with unhinged
it was hurricane, I made that graphic back during beta before it was removed
plucky fern
yeah makes sence
smoky kayak
is it a 30 sec long bleed
sounds synergetic with other bleed stuff, but horrible for shorter fights
shadow ibex
i only asked cuz he said that after i mentioned bloodsurge
smoky kayak
Bloodsurge's problem is it was created for a rage economy that doesn't exist anymore
so unless rage is gonna be changed again (💀), it might as well just be changed entirely
plucky fern
so whats with fatality, is that some inside information that you cant disclose yet?
smoky kayak
don't worry about it, I'll let yall know once it's confirmed
shadow ibex
idk what i would want bloodsurge to do but do something
shadow ibex
like if rend/DW ticks did something
plucky fern
well i was actually considering bloodsurge in m+ colossus build because you want more rage in execute
shadow ibex
but we already have OP resets
plucky fern
so it kinda could have place, but its just too weak
shadow ibex
i always figured it was an aoe rage talent since more bleed ticks
if i wanted exe rage i think finishing blows is better but also
idk colossus exe in m+ is just fucked period
plucky fern
its 'fine' if you dont pick battlelord and invest points in CT, but yeah would love some more options
smoky kayak
Colossus shouldn't focus on Execute anyway
smoky kayak
tbh 11.0 was kind of a failure in that regard
seems that they're trying to correct it in 11.1, just gotta hope it works out successfully
plucky fern
yeah it makes sence that colossus would want to skip exe completely and invest points in 'everything mortal strike' like fatality and eb
but reality is that those talents suck
and you still need execute
to do st
smoky kayak
I mean maybe not skip it completely, there's still room for Sharpened Blades -> EP
but yeah it should have focused more on Mortal Strike
smoky kayak
WoW goes through a lot of iterative design though - they come across a problem (Execute being too weak), so they fix it (make it interact with Colossal Might), then they end up with another problem (Execute too strong), so they add another fix...
it's always kind of a game of jenga
plucky fern
it looks like in 11.1 we will want to press execute even more
like yeah they removed the stacks, but since MP is nerfed, what else are you doing in execute if not executing with ep
smoky kayak
well the point isn't to make you not want to press Execute; it's to make room to press things other than just Execute
plucky fern
we already dont have the rage to press just execute (in colossus at least)
smoky kayak
They nerfed MP and put the damage into Mortal Strike baseline, so not really any change there
plucky fern
and slayer is focused on execute so why not let them
smoky kayak
Colossus does just press Execute lol
I mean yes, you weave in a few Overpowers and Mortal Strike once in a blue moon, but it's like 90% pressing Execute
plucky fern
They nerfed MP and put the damage into Mortal Strike baseline, so not really any...
isnt ep a multiplier on base ms damage? if ms does more damage, then execute with EP is more effecitve
or am i missing something
plucky fern
so ms buff = ep buff
smoky kayak
but EP has a maximum amount of stacks, so as long as pressing Execute again isn't better than pressing Mortal Strike w/ 2 stacks, you've created a loop
Exe - Exe - MS is fine
Exe - Exe - Exe is not
this is what you're trying to solve
pressing Execute 4x in a row while MS is off CD, because MS just isn't worth it without three different buffs up at the same time is the problem
plucky fern
true
smoky kayak
and idk if these changes alone will get there, but it is moving in a better direction - Execute not giving Demolish CDR also encourages pressing MS more
plucky fern
ive been thinking if we are going to ignore OP in execute completely with the tier set, assuming that it will be possible to get the rage for it
smoky kayak
For Colossus anyway, the rage requirement will help keep OP relevant
if the 4p ends up working the way I think it should work though (stacking damage, not duration), it'll be fine
plucky fern
i mean with the good amout of haste, 2/2 ct and maybe like SD it should be possible to ignore op
brittle fiber
the 3rd tier should have looked like this
Unfortunately they’re happy with where warrior currently is 🙂
plucky fern
if the 4p ends up working the way I think it *should* work though (stacking dama...
isnt it worse if it stacks damage not duration
2 second window is 2 overpowers at best
would be sick if it will be both dmg % and duration
now we talking
machine gun overpowers
smoky kayak
isnt it worse if it stacks damage not duration
2 second window is 2 overpowers a...
no because you can build a big overpower, which is valuable all the time
rare kite
Unfortunately they’re happy with where warrior currently is 🙂
tbf tuning wise they absolutely should be. it's hard to tell with the wording whether they are happy with the warrior design or not
smoky kayak
clearly not, since they're making design changes lmao
brittle fiber
Do they even have a dedicated arms dev? I keep hearing a joke that the ret pal dev does arms now
smoky kayak
the issue with Overpower is that it's less prioritized during Execute unless you just happen to be rage starving, so you don't necessarily care about that 4p buff if it's just a minor (albeit lengthy) 20% damage increase to a button you're not pressing anyway
candid pecan
ngl Finishing Blows baseline would be very much appreciated, (or just add it back to SoA).
smoky kayak
arguably you'd prefer not to trigger the 4p, since losing up to 10% MS damage for only 20% Overpower damage isn't really a great trade off
on the other hand, jackpotting a 3x damage Overpower is good no matter when it happens to proc
plucky fern
if thats just duration i guess thats a good bonus pre execute, will allow to not press slam that much
but yeah past 35% you dont have a set bonus which is cringe
smoky kayak
well what you do is just not take Deft Experience at all (which is also a problem of a different variety), which would help keep the CDR relevant
fresh spire
candid pecan
plucky fern
we jugg gamers now
smoky kayak
but as said, that's creating a different problem - if Deft isn't worth taking, then Battlelord never will be
and still, the 4p buff is arguably worse than the 2p
plucky fern
even in m+
shadow ibex
that shit gotta be redesigned if its making deft and battlelord bad
a tier set cant be killing talents that alone right there is a red flag that it needed rework
smoky kayak
now again, we don't actually know how the 4p set works yet, it might be duration, it might be value; the spell data doesn't indicate
smoky kayak
but I think it would be a whole lot better if it were stacking value, cause I don't have high hopes for it otherwise unless they buff the hell out of it
make it a +50% Overpower damage buff for 5-50s maybe 
fresh spire
a tier set cant be killing talents that alone right there is a red flag that it ...
already can see data showing its issue, we can really work it out once real ptr comes and we see how 4p works properly
if it doesn't stack damage it needs major help
smoky kayak
but then you got other issues, like what happens if you build up a 10 stack of Wining Streak!, proc the 4p for a fat Overpower buff
then immediately proc the 4p again and overwrite that 50s buff with a 5s one? 
plucky fern
i doubt it will overwrite, most duration spells stacks their duration now isnt it
fresh spire
:c
shadow ibex
i would assume yea you just cant gain the stacking buff dor duration of the finisher
smoky kayak
the lockout periods are there to stop double procs in AoE, it's not gonna be 20s long though
and DK set works completely different cause it's based around a cooldown
fresh spire
if the lock out period means you get 1 extra stack and the damage is amped it will function better and prevent wasting, though. hard to tell.
shadow ibex
if its just a 200% OP i guess ill take it. boring but just firing on reaction is pretty hard to fuck up and not super invasive
smoky kayak
it would need to be a dynamic lockout based on the duration of the existing buff
essentially not allowing Hedged Bets to trigger while it's active (like Wild Strikes does)
astral talon
Blizz boutta switch it all and move op to #1 in rotation priority
smoky kayak
which would work, but it also guarantees downtime on the buff, since you're not likely to get an immediate re-proc once the initial buff ends
astral talon
We're gonna ignore sudden death to reduce chance of not getting tactician proc
smoky kayak
in which case that would probably be bad for dropping Deft, since it means you might have 10s of Overpower CDR, then 15s without any CDR, then 20s with CDR, then 5s without... and so on
fresh spire
Blizz boutta switch it all and move op to #1 in rotation priority
shits already sudo been number 1 in both specs more or less
Opportunist making it best in slayer
astral talon
Op giving stack for colossus when?
plucky fern
if only they allowed to pick both dn and soa
with this op tier set
fuck it remove fb place soa in its place
fresh spire
finishing blows seeing play in colossus now after bb nerf
plucky fern
fb can take place of SoS
smoky kayak
FB has always been great, yall just didn't wanna accept it 🥲
fresh spire
rage wasn't so needed in slayer since 2x sd procs make rage clean
colossus on other hand it was competeting with bleeds
dull siren
Just make Bladestorm fast on Arms
shadow ibex
i need fb to have like 6 more words in its desc doin something else just feels dirty using a whole point to get rage sub 35
latent moss
i mean with the good amout of haste, 2/2 ct and maybe like SD it should be possi...
haste wont help you. u need more crit
doubt even with lik 100% crit
colossus can keep up
with execute spam
40 rage per global is A LOT
latent moss
still
colossus has nothing for rage
except ravager ig
but we already spam exe during it cause we can
warlords torment should give reck on cs if the target hit is below 35%
tacit crystal
Just make Bladestorm fast on Arms
hi tmy
brittle fiber
but I think it would be a whole lot better if it were stacking value, cause I do...
Honestly hate that they said “each role will have a unique gimmick” and didnt think twice about classes with CD timings aside from UH and Sub who have some form of guaranteed “jackpot” gimmick
Jackpot for colossal strikes or avatar would be fun
shadow ibex
i'll take avatar granting demolish stacks 
trim arrow
i mean giving all melee the same bonus is the laziest shit
brittle fiber
hopefully this is just blizzard doing their typical release something that's awful but have the actual enjoyable implementation in a hot fix
maiden moat
would you guys play for queen Progress Arms or Fury ( we have two warriors) ?
smoky kayak
Honestly hate that they said “each role will have a unique gimmick” and didnt th...
jackpotting a big damage OP would be fine imo
but getting some Overpower CDR that we don't really need anyway is super 
brittle fiber
it's very tone deaf especially since we've had some form of CDR implemented since catacalysm
think it was CS in cata, then switched to OP in legion
not to mention cleave and MS reset in talent tree (exhillarating blows?)
shadow ibex
Feels like df s2 again where they have idea that doesn't work great and have to come up with something super late
smoky kayak
it's very tone deaf especially since we've had some form of CDR implemented sinc...
Not sure what that has to do with anything? After 20 years, most ideas and mechanics, even names, are recycled in some form or another; expecting all brand new ideas/mechanics every tier/expansion isn't really sustainable
brittle fiber
sorry i think you meant CDR as in reduction where as i meant CDR as in reset, but yea youre right that SD reset CS.
I meant it moreso in the sense that it's odd they're bringing in another CD reset/reduction to a class that already has a lot of ways of doing so. i prefer the big overpower jackpot like you mentioned or something along those terms
#makearmshithardagain
hopefully their comment about listening to feedback isn't a blanket statement and PTR shows some promising changes
shadow ibex
i know we'll learn when ptr launches but wish they would just clarify how it works. I don't think that's a huge ask since just a quick edit on the post
teal fossil
#makearmshithardagain
You can’t have both huge numbers and good consistent dps
And rn our consistent dps is suffering for the “one huge ms”
They buffed Ms by 15% but nerfed the ceiling of ms by a little bit
steep osprey
Not sure what that has to do with anything? After 20 years, most ideas and mecha...
I think that might be Combat Rogue’s Restless Blades
teal fossil
People love cdr generally
It’s a very strong in the moment feedback for pressing buttons well
brittle fiber
And rn our consistent dps is suffering for the “one huge ms”
i HATE big ms
slow saddle
And rn our consistent dps is suffering for the “one huge ms”
Lol
Its the cleave not the ms
halcyon valve
I love gambling for big cleave
raw hollow
I'd rather the set interact with MS or execute. Id rather see good consistent damage with Ms and execute still being our primary damage sources
halcyon valve
Maybe some proc that ms hits 3 targets would be nice
still fox
what do you prefer in m+ demolish or slayer? I can never decide xD
halcyon valve
colossus
chilly copper
I like slayer
candid pecan
I'd rather the set interact with MS or execute. Id rather see good consistent da...
MS or Cleave
if it procs during collateral = gg
simple wren
just imported my loadout to raidbots for some simming and got this:
(loadout fresh from wowhead)
slow saddle
if it procs during collateral = gg
I mean if u remove mbg idm the cleave col
peak jacinth
just imported my loadout to raidbots for some simming and got this:
I get that error when SimC is out of date.
smoky kayak
specifically the SimC addon, yeah - it looks like you've got some old talent strings saved that Raidbots is having trouble translating @simple wren
simple wren
specifically the SimC addon, yeah - it looks like you've got some old talent str...
yupp, cleared out the old talents string and it worked again. thanks! 🙂
dire hinge
something about this season's rotation i just did not enjoy. It wasn't very difficult, but it also felt needlessly complex at the same time.
just feels odd playing an alt and pulling similar damage for far less complexity/effort
minor gust
prob doesnt feel bad for long time arms players. I feel for the new people learning it tho
dire hinge
yeee, i mean i've been on it for a while at this point, it's just... meh
very uninspired
minor gust
I just found this patch arms gameplay especially slayer got disgustingly stale insanely fast
made me realize this version of arms without talents like EB and BL makes arms boring as all hell
fresh spire
fresh spire
<a:Sparkles:948754781311217755> oooo overpower proc, better react <a:Sparkles:94...
Opportunst be like
minor gust
yeah and something about prioritizing OP when MS is up hurts me
dim basalt
Coming from SV this spec felt very easy to learn and to perform on
minor gust
SS priorities and execute usually stumbles ppl alot
fresh spire
Arms warriors be like:
Guys. Why is my excute hero spec not pressing ms.
Also arms warriors:
Why is my mortal strike hero spec not pressing mortal strike
rare kite
Arms needs impactful procs to be fun imo
gaunt owl
Arms warriors be like:
Guys. Why is my excute hero spec not pressing ms.
Also ar...
we cant have both be good
too many amps in the mix is bad
its too hard for them to get it right like in Legion
steep osprey
minor gust
Legion Mastery jump scare
steep osprey
Where are you
minor gust
oh you know already in the future playing Legion classic
halcyon valve
<a:Sparkles:948754781311217755> oooo overpower proc, better react <a:Sparkles:94...
Not playing opportunist simmed better for me
halcyon valve
Arms warriors be like:
Guys. Why is my excute hero spec not pressing ms.
Also ar...
Colossus always presses ms
severe haven
Arms warriors be like:
Guys. Why is my excute hero spec not pressing ms.
Also ar...
Tbh both can be true
Ignoring execute in "execute phase" is silly imo
minor gust
nah its way less they skippin WOD
severe haven
in 8 years
4 max if they do it
severe haven
There's a reason classic relaunched before MOP and why they are speed running cata
gaunt owl
because people are glazing too fucking much on Classic
severe haven
It'll go hand in hand with re re re release and tbc classic
minor gust
classic is a vibe and server launches are always fun
severe haven
Yeah
One of the best games of all time
It's like listening to dark side of the moon
minor gust
classic isnt even a nostalgia thing for me since I didnt start till late wotlk. I just like the chill relaxed slower gameplay sometimes. its a nice change of pace when retail gets stale
severe haven
Tbh it's so old even the nostalgia release the first time around is nostalgic in itself
I started in cata as a teen, when classic launched in 2019 I played that too
And now I'm nostalgic over that 5 years later
steep osprey
It's like listening to dark side of the moon
Never did
minor gust
I didnt start warrior till legion I was a Monk main in Mop and WOD
cinder dove
gladiator bis
shadow ibex
Except the sound wild strike made
Oh lord WS sound was so bad
Mop when arms got 3 separate iterations i think
At least 2 reworks
gaunt owl
devs were crazy devoted back then
severe haven
I played arms little in bfa, felt okay
minor gust
DEEEEP WOUNDS WW
severe haven
And before this, only in classic where I think it was pretty good in pvp albeit barebones
I liked that the weapon kinda made the man
severe haven
If you had Sulfuras you were a monster
And weapons like Ashkandi felt great to have
astral yarrow
didnt hand of rag have a fast swingtimer so top damage was low
lucid thicket
didnt hand of rag have a fast swingtimer so top damage was low
It's proc was also a caster proc
severe haven
Yes, it wasn't the best but still
lucid thicket
So you needed to a sham or ret to get the most value
severe haven
It still one shot most people in the right condition
Cthun Axe and Naxx weapons outclassed it still
naive sage
Cata arms was peak
fossil thistle
Legion
slow saddle
Legion 100%
hushed pine
Cata arms was peak
The right answer
hushed pine
Legion 100%
Also this
slow saddle
I loved legion arms
astral talon
Strom'kar jump scare
nah bro dont do me like this
I miss mah boy stromkar every single day
astral talon
i mean
we had permament CS in ideal situation
so it wasn't THAT important
but having EP, and shattered defenses O_O
and battle cry giving 100% crit basically
flow of the spec was just good
xD
severe haven
Cata arms was peak
Did weapon in cata matter for damage?
naive sage
Did weapon in cata matter for damage?
I think it mattered until legion iirc
icy mulch
and battle cry giving 100% crit basically
Battle cry, and the trinket was soooo good.
astral talon
Fuck trinkets
Give me battle cry
So I can have guaranteed crit on my 10x buffed ms
But no, lets boring avatar
With whole 20% dmg buff
Cuz thats fun and engaging...
halcyon valve
Avatar sleeper cd
😴
They gotta figure out a way to get arms a cd that actually does something beyond a flat 20% dmg increase for 20 seconds
halcyon valve
😴
astral talon
Or 8s
Make it give 100% crit chance instead of flat dmaage buff
Sounds good?
We could rename it too then
halcyon valve
Now we‘re cooking
astral talon
Something something battle would be nice
astral talon
Neuron activated
halcyon valve
Crits once
„I understand it now“
100% crit chance
teal fossil
yeah we should devalue crit
rare kite
crit was still one of our best stats in legion although we had battlecry
astral talon
Big number makes brain go brrrrrrrt
halcyon valve
Talent that does nothing but make mortal strike crits have a red number instead of the default yellow 
obtuse copper
crit was still one of our best stats in legion although we had battlecry
Wasn't it the worst? Or did it change after AM nerf
rare kite
Wasn't it the worst? Or did it change after AM nerf
Iirc it was the 2nd best stat
wild kernel
Talent that does nothing but make mortal strike crits have a red number instead ...
This is the buff we need
rare kite
Wasn't it the worst? Or did it change after AM nerf
i could only find an old bajheera video, according to that one you're right atleast
video is at the very start of legion tho
smoky kayak
crit was still one of our best stats in legion although we had battlecry
as I recall, crit/haste/vers were all pretty close while Mastery was far ahead of everything else
rare kite
yea, that is the one thing i am sure of as well. that mastery was giga far ahead, even priod over strength
smoky kayak
I do know that Crit became pretty dooo for Fury in Antorus though, due to the lowered CD on Battle Cry and basically all of the spec's damage being concentrated inside cooldowns
brittle fiber
Every time someone brings up legion i always think of the aids rng gearing in s1 and 2, but i always glaze over how good some classes felt
It’s alright we’ll get plunderstorm next month to distract us from how boring s1 is, then when s2 gets boring we’ll get legion remix
rare kite
It’s alright we’ll get plunderstorm next month to distract us from how boring s1...
legion with current arms tho xD
rare kite
they won't most likely. i think they will just disable artifact weapons
brittle fiber
I guess the artifact weapons would be the cloak but whether they have their little powers in em
Yea
rare kite
yo archi remember how i said i wouldn't mind if both specs were mast/crit? i've changed my mind, both specs mastery/haste instead and we get back battlecry for arms to still have big crits.
brittle fiber
Still salty we got stromkar over the axe of cenarius in an xpac based on KILLING FUCKING DEMONS
brittle fiber
yo archi remember how i said i wouldn't mind if both specs were mast/crit? i've ...
Mast crit but make it legion mastery so we hit like trucks
rare kite
but then we get slow fury, and i want fast fury. and yes obviously legion mastery(well just legion arms)
brittle fiber
Popular opinion, fury stinks
rare kite
tww fury is fun, much more fun than legion fury. legion fury overrated
brittle fiber
Yes sir enjoy your 6 second rotation of rampage > crushing blow > rampage > crushblow
smoky kayak
Legion Fury was carried by items
rare kite
Yes sir enjoy your 6 second rotation of rampage > crushing blow > rampage > crus...
press bloodbath for reach rampage as well. plus you can make your argument with almost any specs "have fun pressing these 3-4 buttons"
shadow ibex
last time fury was good was mop
smoky kayak
MoP Fury sucked until 5.4, and even then only if you had the gear to support it, which most players never got to
brittle fiber
press bloodbath for reach rampage as well. plus you can make your argument with ...
Most fury warriors dont press bloodbath during reck window
rare kite
Most fury warriors dont press bloodbath during reck window
that's just not true
brittle fiber
You’ll have to excuse my comment then because the warriors in my raid team and a few others have stated “dont use bloodbath it wastes rage during reck”
smoky kayak
sounds like you raid with stupid Warriors then
brittle fiber
Most likely 😂
11.1 coatsman return to warrior to show these idiots warrior isnt hard
smoky kayak
also begs the question of why you're making declarative statements with no first hand experience 
brittle fiber
also begs the question of why you're making declarative statements with no first...
Serial yapper
Cereal, even
smoky kayak
Well stop, its making you look even worse
smoky kayak
Yes sir enjoy your 6 second rotation of rampage > crushing blow > rampage > crus...
you could downplay basically any class to some variation of this if you want to just ignore half their abilities
brittle fiber
True
brittle fiber
Chat is that good
obtuse copper
Iirc it was the 2nd best stat
I thought haste good make go FAST
smoky kayak
another cantrip weapon xD
there are actually several 2hrs this coming tier, they don't look half bad either
rare kite
there are actually several 2hrs this coming tier, they don't look half bad eithe...
really? i found a ring but not a 2nd weapon
rare kite
I thought haste good make go FAST
the old bajheera video basically said mastery>str>>>haste>vers>crit so you were correct. mastery so beyond anything else that you just equip things with mastery on them tho
rare kite
2nd looking very promising forsure, is that no stat punishment as well?(idk if that is what it's called)
obtuse copper
the old bajheera video basically said mastery>str>>>haste>vers>crit so you were ...
Mastery fuck good
halcyon valve
Michael bays favourite weapon
fathom shoal
its fine in raid, dumb in dungos
rare kite
Boys I actually like skullsplitter
do you like it or do just not mind it? coz for me i have no strong feelings towards it
brittle fiber
not for ksh
chilly copper
Race doesnt really matter, though a dwarf cleanse has been helpful in many seasons
nova marsh
if only it was a decurse
silk spade
if only it was a decurse
it is
chilly copper
Dark iron one cleanses everything, think dwarf didnt clear something.
icy mulch
Finally a weapon proc that isn't highly penalized by it.
nova marsh
Finally a weapon proc that isn't highly penalized by it.
The trade off is it'll only be good in long fights
So it's basically signet ring/anvil but a weapon
viral locust
Dark iron one cleanses everything, think dwarf didnt clear something.
Both are same
chilly copper
Sweet
viral locust
But dark iron buffs DPS a little and dwarf is a dr
chilly copper
At some point it didnt remove everything, maybe its classic
viral locust
But iirc the crit buff from dwarf > the primary stat every 2 mins
chilly copper
Dwarf also has that 2% crit damage\
viral locust
DPS wise
chilly copper
I say having race changed to night elf
viral locust
Yeah I went night elf for keys, get too much agro at times should be good next patch tho when they buff tank agro
Probably go dwarf for keys or mechagnome for min max DPS in raid
chilly copper
Historically night elf shadowmeld bugs bosses and the dwarf cleanses are great for bleeds. See how good it is next season.
viral locust
Ye some seasons have some good melds or insane bleeds so both are good. Some bleed you can meld before application so yes really does depend on dungeon pool
Dwarf mogs suck so hard though
chilly copper
Yeah my nelf is looking a lot better than the dwarf
quaint otter
7.5k main stat? Scuffed number?
viral locust
Can't remember what it is in game but could be, wowhead tooltips cooked sometimes
slow saddle
Yeah my nelf is looking a lot better than the dwarf
Mog looks win, ive chosen dragon for mogs
Also another stop
livid cloak
I got to do a half dozen keys the last 2 nights with this build
It is surprisingly good
Good boss dam and good aoe. Great for vault keys and push keys from what I've seen last couple days
I've been anywhere from 2 to 2.5m overall with this in each dungeon I've done
halcyon valve
naive sage
I’m full doomer mode, I’m not having fun playing arms anymore
I hate playing around cleave with colossus and slayer feels like a wet noodle in m+
halcyon valve
I was gonna try to go for 3k score this year still, but rn i just play monster hunter instead
chilly copper
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1299776378438422528/1321711834784337973...
I like this, I’d swap the chance for mortal strike resets for sudden death though.
quaint otter
I was gonna try to go for 3k score this year still, but rn i just play monster h...
Good choice current season is shit
dim basalt
Yeah I went night elf for keys, get too much agro at times should be good next p...
Tank aggro fix is already live
viral locust
oh true they hotfixed it in forgot
halcyon valve
Good choice current season is shit
Eh its alright but its just not worth the effort
Ive been getting full vaults of shit gear all season, most of my stuff is mythic by now, and ive given up on getting the last few slots too
still fox
I hate playing around cleave with colossus and slayer feels like a wet noodle in...
i find slayer rly good in keys 😊
icy mulch
The trade off is it'll only be good in long fights
It's got good stats still is what I mean. It's not being super gimped by not having primary or secondary.
I wonder if two of them for Fury will stack.
teal fossil
Finally a weapon proc that isn't highly penalized by it.
But the damage is so extremely minor until you stack it
625 is how much shadowlands items did
vocal smelt
That's how heavy metal accumulation works
dim basalt
625 is how much shadowlands items did
Proc damage numbers on datamined stuff tend to be really off
halcyon valve
But the damage is so extremely minor until you stack it
even at that item lvl, thats a free 5k dps at max stacks
keep in mind that this screenshot its 623, but were gonna be going up to like 660? next season. so the damage will be considerably higher than in this pic
iirc the int/agi weapon from fyrakk at the end of amirdrassil was also just a small little bonus
icy mulch
Wth is the CN servers doing with Arms warriors?
I can not see any point where Intervene not getting you killed in that high of a key.
vale gorge
So we will be able to play with Walord's Torment next patch. Nice
shadow ibex
i wanna just slam colossus on queen to prepare for it being best next patch of course 
fresh spire
after playing colossus on court and going fury on queen prog
man
this is the exactly how i felt
colossus arms on court went hard
shadow ibex
look at me executing bugs to get in some extra CDR
wow decision making
im having fun
fresh spire
bl/eb felt sick on that boss
shadow ibex
i swear BL rolls twice on reset chance with sweeping
idk feels like u get insane procs with sweeping up
fresh spire
need to rebeat garms next time i getthere
hopefully with 10% more crit on my chracter
shadow ibex
had a DH rush thru mid and kill a bunch of melee but got it last night
shadow ibex
casualties of war
fresh spire
as much as big crits was fun
shadow ibex
i ran spear all prog and it feels good
just cant delay it at all really or it wont line up
spea i mean*
fresh spire
go 45 seconds and just send if it can hit both always
shadow ibex
yea meant spear my b
like cant delay that first use around 15 seconds very long or wont be up for first vuln
stuff like that it felt weird but i still liked it more than roa
fresh spire
with trees next patch
its much easier to pick up warlords/blademaster
so all key builds likely run blademaster
shadow ibex
i still wish the actual button did more dmg than a fuckin mortal strike lol
i been running crit spear with blademaster over roar in keys for a few weeks now
fresh spire
👀
shadow ibex
i only do 10-11s for vault so its just for fun and hitting a mega demo a few times
fresh spire
not actually tried spear in keys
shadow ibex
i still rather the spear crit buff be on the warrior but only mostly cuz using a cast @ player macro is almost req to make it not feel bad
fresh spire
made me realise i got something to test on sims
shadow ibex
a few casts i didnt hit both bosses on court for exmp cuz the radius isn't super duper generous
rare kite
i swear BL rolls twice on reset chance with sweeping
we tested this for EB in dragonflight a long time ago and that atleast the case for EB(idk about battlelord)
shadow ibex
just lemme play colossus next tier
naive sage
kurog long sweep
Good times
fresh spire
naive sage
I had so much more fun in DF ngl
rare kite
think most people did
weak rain
just lemme play colossus next tier
Colossus had huge chance of beating slayer on raid but noo, they decided to nerf execute colossus might for some reason
shadow ibex
s2 i hate and s3 leggo bullshit i hate
halcyon valve
Arms dps gameplay was fairly solid throughout df
S1 was scuffed in an entertaining way
S2 had big mortal strikes
S3 was a bit sleeper
halcyon valve
S2 had the big mortal strikes and good SKS <:peepoHappy:673436349805625364>
Completely destroying the adds on last poss vortex pinnacle with sks felt good
rare kite
S2 had the big mortal strikes and good SKS <:peepoHappy:673436349805625364>
"good sks"
quaint otter
candid pecan
it was good
rare kite
it was cringe af. yes seeing the burst was satisfying but it fully consuming deep wounds was so ass
press sks and you make your next ms do less damage
quaint otter
halcyon valve
Yeah it was far from perfect, but it was instant damage 🧠 neuron activates
halcyon valve
I got CE in s1 and s2, worked for me
frigid pine
is it a big dps loss if i dont run skullsplitter for m+?
halcyon valve
What was it then
halcyon valve
That would kill tom
Good
What would be other ways mastery could interact with our kit 🤔
Could be somewhat interesting how it would work out if it was relevant for the % dmg for martial prowess and executioners precision
halcyon valve
Lets say 10% mastery makes MP do 8% more, and EP do 10% more
slow saddle
And ep would be to volatile
halcyon valve
otherwise what if it increased duration of our cooldowns
Longer sweeping, cs and avatar
halcyon valve
What if mastery increased crit damage
Big gamba
Oh oh that gave me an idea
Talent that auto cleaves X% of your single target dmg to nearby enemies affected by deep wounds
Actual collateral damage
Talent that replaces ms and cleave with more powerful spells during avatar
night gull
what about cleave does replace MS and gets every multiplier?
halcyon valve
No
gaunt owl
No
gaunt owl
give frontal MS
like in DF S2 ? 😄
fresh spire
give frontal MS
Cleave?
shadow ibex
two become 1
fresh spire
👀
teal fossil
What if mastery increased crit damage <:warriorbrain:1083190485637660734>
That would make mastery bad until the last weeks of last tier
Would be funny tho
halcyon valve
big number!!!!!
naive sage
Oh oh that gave me an idea
Talent that auto cleaves X% of your single target dmg...
Not bad
naive sage
Talent that replaces ms and cleave with more powerful spells during avatar
Bad copy of reckless abandon
naive sage
what about cleave does replace MS and gets every multiplier?
Delet
chilly copper
At least the next tuning is buffing MS/Cleave more
Fun as it is buffing those with overpower/execute. Sometimes suffer from too many buttons, not enough gcds.
night gull
Mortal strike literally IS the definition of arms warrior
yeah but imagine how much easier it would be
ignoring your mentioned fact
naive sage
yeah but imagine how much easier it would be
Delete cleave, make MS like legion, everyone's happy
grand idol
Step one: Take back deep wounds (ignite) from mages.
Step two: ???
Step three: Profit.
teal fossil
I don’t think dropping cleave is possible at this tuning lol
You could become the prio damage guy
shadow ibex
i dont think its possible
u have empty globals in m+ what are you gonna slam?
fob and that becomes impossible to justify
minor gust
can reap even proc off of WW
halcyon valve
No
shadow ibex
lmao
halcyon valve
Just like the colossus hero talents, hardwired to only work with cleave
tacit crystal
halcyon valve
Bonus damage for hitting multiple targets? Cleave only
15% bonus dmg? Cleave only
Stack of colossal might when hitting 3 targets? Cleave only
shadow ibex
just give frontal MS
halcyon valve
Put dreadnaught on ms, make it big
chilly copper
Best they can do is a second hit for 30% of the damage
shadow ibex
make it like 60 rage so not spammy
halcyon valve
Back to storm of swords increasing dmg by 70% and cooldown by 10 seconds i see
shadow ibex
short time in SL alpha where cleave was ability u had to unlock by WWing 3 targets and it fucked and was expensive. rather just see that with frontal MS hitting 3+ enabling super hard hitting button
can still be cleavei guess w/e it is as long as hitting 3+ = enable it
halcyon valve
I remember doing keys in sl s1 and highest dmg being dreadnaught
quaint otter
I remember doing keys in sl s1 and highest dmg being dreadnaught <:clueless:1099...
cuz arms did suck in s1 hard
better in s2 still fury was superior
abstract schooner
Is the new ring simming properly right now?
minor gust
I remember doing keys in sl s1 and highest dmg being dreadnaught <:clueless:1099...
DF season 4 moment
brittle pelican
Remember jugg build in s3?
quaint otter
brittle fiber
Remember when you didn’t play wow
minor blade
Hey quick question i am just coming to dps warrior what spec is reccomended
quaint otter
Fury
brittle pelican
well, havoc got theirs so nothings impossible
slow saddle
Had it won instead of season 1 then mby
finite wasp
i miss prepatch arms
we were actually really good for once
that was our peak, now were back to mediocrity
quaint otter
naive sage
i dont think its possible
Ye i was just coping
They clearly stated that cleave was the intended aoe spell for arms for TWW
So there is no escape from cleave prison
naive sage
That set with slayer kek
My dream
boreal quartz
They clearly stated that cleave was the intended aoe spell for arms for TWW
Storm of swords by beloved
Paying for ToMs sins
fresh spire
Storm of dead
thick kelp
brittle pelican
So there is no escape from cleave prison <:copium:839076283467431956>
I dreamt about chonky cleave for the whole df
too bad they decided to put fyralath into hero talents
fresh spire
Demolish is fine change my mind
(When compared to bladestorm)
Colossus is the better hero spec
true kiln
This might be biased, but my guild is lacking both a warr and monk. Which has the strongest buff/debuff?
The monk discord said warrior btw^
thick kelp
warrior gives ap
monk only increases phys damage
only pure phys damage classes are warrior + hunter
warrior better for raid dps
true kiln
It’s settled then, guess I’m settling in here too
tacit crystal
only pure phys damage classes are warrior + hunter
is outlaw not phys?
thick kelp
is outlaw not phys?
yeah but who plays outlaw
boreal quartz
is outlaw not phys?
Sharkshoes
thick kelp
lmao
boreal quartz
Arrrr
tacit crystal
yeah but who plays outlaw
fury players
thick kelp
@magic canopy confirm this?
tacit crystal
he will be rerolling soon
icy mulch
I hate the rogue class, I hate most dot based damage to be fair.
Rogue is kinda fun in pvp though.
dim basalt
Sub isn't really dot based either
icy mulch
Assassin is
quaint otter
Sub isn't really dot based either
the wound impacts a lot
dim basalt
the wound impacts a lot
Doesn't make the spec dot based
quaint otter
Doesn't make the spec dot based
yes and no 🤓
dim basalt
Dot based are specs like assa or aff
eager sigil
dh
halcyon valve
only pure phys damage classes are warrior + hunter
Hunter has a significant portion of non physical damage with hero talents and bombs/poison 🤓
magic canopy
<@110993922691477504> confirm this?
outlaw fun
eager sigil
what uptime % on dusk/dawn are you guys using for your raid sims
75 should be reasonable?
untold trench
In m+ it sits at a comfortable 85+% for myself
dim basalt
Hunter has a significant portion of non physical damage with hero talents and bo...
Bombs are phys
But yeah DR is shadow damage, sentinel arcane and the poison stuff
Tho Im not sure if DRs aoe damage is mostly shadow
halcyon valve
Bombs are phys
🤨 arent they fire?
slow saddle
In m+ it sits at a comfortable 85+% for myself
At what key level
untold trench
I dabble around 13-14 area
brittle pelican
Assassin is
It isn’t
icy mulch
It isn’t
https://www.wowhead.com/guide/classes/rogue/assassination/overview-pve-dps
This says otherwise.
shadow ibex
Give me aoe ms
sharp wyvern
cleave
thick kelp
gaunt owl
minor gust
Legion SS plz
brittle fiber
only pure phys damage classes are warrior + hunter
Blizzard hates warriors (and monks) so much
Sub rogue also does majority physical damage with bonus shadow damage
teal fossil
sub rogue is like 30% shadow
brittle fiber
yea that's why i said
shadow ibex
10000% bitch made
dreamy spire
Hey, i noticed that the Talent Cacl for 11.1 makes Ignore Pain to 1 sec CD and scaling with Attack Power - but there are no notes about that in the official PTR changes.
Did wowhead/dataminer messed something up, or is IP really get buffed?
dreamy spire
its not about being very good, i care the most about its cooldown
naive sage
Arms got a new ip formula but
Where did you get this from?
teal fossil
I’m fairly sure this has been the formula since shadowlands
It’s just now back on the tooltip,the functionality of the spell didn’t change
teal fossil
Where did you get this from?
Probably just wowhead datamine
naive sage
Probably just wowhead datamine
Yes I mean, I wondered if I missed the latest wowhead data mining article
brittle fiber
i think it's barely begun
teal fossil
Yeah there’s gonna be plenty more after the holidays
slow saddle
Issue is the relative heaøth buff weve gotten vs ap we have...
tacit crystal
Arms got a new ip formula but
does this not make it slightly slightly slightly better?
woven wasp
nothing has changed
warm thistle
Quick question do you press Cleave in ST or Rend or Slam as a filler? Do you press Cleave at all in ST?
tacit crystal
nothing has changed
chilly copper
Atm I cleave with two targets cause of the slam talent.
brittle fiber
with the colossal M+ builds are people pooling it for 10 stacks or just sending it on cd
fresh spire
Issue with ip is the formula is still cucked by the cap currently
icy mulch
It's rage cost for Arms could use a trimming. Then it might be considered.
halcyon valve
hm idk, 20 rage for a defensive seems alright, but the amount of absorb youre getting just isnt worth it
strange perch
It's rage cost for Arms could use a trimming. Then it might be considered.
why trim it? atm arms feels just right when geared up.
livid cloak
ip does not feel good at all
which is what they were talking about
it need a substantial AP modifier buff and likely reduced rage cost
if the buff to IP was enough, the rage cost is fine
robust coyote
I'm so glad I swapped to arms lol. This shit is way more fun than fury and my average DPS went from like 1.4m to 1.7m in m+10s after switching.
fresh spire
Colossus is the way
Likely going to feel nicer in keys having 10% free stam next patch
Less rippy to burst
robust coyote
Colossus is the way
Exactly. Demolish is so fun until I use it at the worst possible time
robust coyote
True, but my group doesn't tend to agree lol
fresh spire
regal wharf
what changes would you guys like to see to arms
fallen canopy
bring back Deadly Calm
weak rain
bring back stronger bleeds and buff tom
merry stone
might as well bring Recklessness back with a 5 min CD just to sit on it for execute phase
finite topaz
Could just make it a cooldown only usable during Execute
halcyon valve
Exactly. Demolish is so fun until I use it at the worst possible time
amen
i love how pressing demolish in large packs makes me jump from 3rd to 1st on the dps meters
big number
robust coyote
another week goes by, and all of my mythic spots in the great vault are garbage or an insanely small upgrade that isn't worth the gold
finite topaz
Is there not a circlet upgrade this week?
halcyon valve
there is
muted drift
gotta do the storm version of the isle for it to pop up
naive sage
i love how pressing demolish in large packs makes me jump from 3rd to 1st on the...
Real (can’t relate, my demolish never crits)
weak rain
honestly, they should just make it never crit or always crit and balanced damage around it
brittle fiber
what changes would you guys like to see to arms
Sweeping strikes off gcd
brittle pelican
All 3 rogue specs have free gazilion target cleave, while arms spends entire gcd for 1 target 75% cleave with downtime
brittle pelican
Powder isn’t target capped
Flurry is 8 targets for 50%
rare kite
what changes would you guys like to see to arms
sweeping strikes being passive, colossus smash tactician. remove martial prowess. make warbreaker separate from cs
oh and remove juggernaut
regal wharf
whats wrong with martial prowess?
halcyon valve
None its good for the rotation
rare kite
whats wrong with martial prowess?
damage modifier on ms makes the variance huge between ms hits. tho they did just nerf it so that's good atleast
make EB underwhelming. you get a shit ton of resets in a row but it ends up not mattering that much because of the modifiers
you could make the same argument for EP but i think EP is what keeps the balance between MS and execute. without it you would just spam execute. tbf that's kinda what you do rn
overpower is not a satisfying button to press imo
viral locust
what changes would you guys like to see to arms
Cheat death, 6 more defensives and 4 more aoe stops
brittle fiber
miss taste for blood
brittle fiber
and triple leap from legion
grand idol
A talent for leap increasing its cooldown but causing it to pull in the enemies around where you land.
minor gust
DF alpha moment
fresh spire
DF alpha moment
naive sage
Happy new year arms gigachads 
rare kite
happy new year everyone. it will be a good year with an arms rework on the way(it just wan't ready for 11.1)
minor gust
13.3
teal fossil
whats wrong with martial prowess?
because it means that MS has to be weaker baseline as a result
smoky kayak
Likely going to feel nicer in keys having 10% free stam next patch
+10% movespeed gang!
magic canopy
movespeed fucking owns
they gotta tune up the crit gem or something
becuase 5k damage isnt even close to what movespeed gives us
brittle fiber
for colossal build opener, do you stack colossal to 10 stacks before demolishing or just one MS, whatever ravager stacks you have and send it?
magic canopy
Likely going to feel nicer in keys having 10% free stam next patch
we also get 4% avoid back
colossus is actually gonna be pretty tanky
smoky kayak
becuase 5k damage isnt even close to what movespeed gives us
only downside is that it doesn't stack with Frenzied Enrage, so you're kinda locked into Powerful
magic canopy
really? thats weird
smoky kayak
Yeah, it's cause the gem is actually treated as a hidden buff instead of a static source like Fast Footwork or tertiary stats, and WoW only counts the highest value speed buff instead of adding them all together
so Enrage and the gem are in the same "pool" of effects, but only the highest one gets counted
ebon fern
I kinda like arms actually, but i would prefer if it was like df arms+hero talents
And also the s3 df tier set i liked that quite a lot
It made sudden death actually really good in aoe
smoky kayak
Yeah, that would be a good one to carry forward at some point
ebon fern
Agreed
Execute is just lacking in general, for fury it doesn't do enough, aside with slayer, and for arms it doesn't have aoe interactions
smoky kayak
TBF that's kind of on par for Arms though, being more about low-cleave than raw AoE
Fury's problem is just the competition between buttons
shadow ibex
give legion sweeping
and just hit a few things hard but BS fucks
nerf unhinged buff BS
brittle fiber
buff fatality!!!
ebon fern
For fury execute with marks should slap really hard, but instead it makes it slap pretty hard, they should buff execuite to be at around as powerful as crushing blow baseline
ANd for arms, i don't know, i think it doesn't refund enough fury, and doesn't do enough in general
And for arms execute doesn't really have much of a place in aoe
Which in my opinion is a bit of a problem, exe should be relevant in aoe and st, mortal is for st, cleave for aoe
brittle fiber
there are OP talents that balances out lack of rage gen in execute phase on top of skull splitter, but they just aren't competitive
and yea EP should buff cleave
ebon fern
Anyway i would be very happy to see the sudden death tier set from dragonflight s3 come back as a talent
makes rend application basically passive, and especially good in aoe, and it makes sudden death execute very good in aoe
smoky kayak
For fury execute with marks should slap really hard, but instead it makes it sla...
the problem isn't really Execute's damage, it's all the extra talents that Raging Blow triggers
ebon fern
Also tier set
Favors RB usage
Basically many talents favor BT and RB and not enough do for execute
I guess sudden and massacre are good
smoky kayak
Well Fury tier is garbo, but yes - RB triggers a bunch of extra stuff, so it's not really a damage problem
Massacre is worthless now, Sudden Death has value with Slayer for obvious reasons, but that's it
ebon fern
WEll yea because you don't wanna press exe anyway
They should probably slap a small damage amp on sudden death?
smoky kayak
na, Sudden Death isn't the problem
smoky kayak
the real offender is Slaughtering Strikes
ebon fern
Ah yea, it doesn't benefit from exe
smoky kayak
just nerf it by like half
ebon fern
Only onslaught and mostly raging
smoky kayak
really no reason for that much damage to be wrapped up into pressing RB
ebon fern
It's just a % damage mod anyway i literally won't care less if they completely remove it
smoky kayak
idk if it needs to be removed entirely, its passive, but it does create a nice loop
ebon fern
They could also add exe on slaughtering i guess
smoky kayak
could, but that likely just tilts things in favor of RB + Exe instead of RB + BT
which conflicts with all the other BT-oriented abilities; better to just nerf it
brittle fiber
have you done the tier set first impression for WoWhead archi? do they expect every theory crafter to do it or are you waiting until PTR?
smoky kayak
What about everything works with slaughtering?
Onslaught? It's fine, hardly gets used as is, but it's limited by the cooldown, so there's still room for other abilities
smoky kayak
Onslaught, bt, rb and exe
that just sounds bloaty, and fairly well cements it as an always required talent, which I really think Fury already has too many of
nerfing opens up room for more options, it's the far better solution
it's really not the dirty word people like to take it as, nerfing is just as valid a tuning mechanism as buffing is
smoky kayak
have you done the tier set first impression for WoWhead archi? do they expect ev...
It's done, but there isn't much to say for Arms at the moment, since we don't know exactly how it works yet
ebon fern
The nerfing i don't like is when they touch mechanics you can actually feel, but for slaughtering i couldn't care less as it's just a % damage amp
smoky kayak
the TLDR is Arms maybe good if it works one way, probably bad if it works the other
and Fury is maybe a little too non-transformative for some people, but fits in pretty seamlessly (better than the last few tier's bonuses for sure)
smoky kayak
The nerfing i don't like is when they touch mechanics you can actually feel, but...
yeah, I agree, I don't (usually) like mechanical nerfs, but in this case the difference between Slaughtering providing +20% or +10% per cast doesn't really make a difference, except that a smaller number means it's less oppressive
ebon fern
Pretty much
brittle fiber
the TLDR is Arms maybe good if it works one way, probably bad if it works the ot...
Yeah it's pretty vague as to what gains the streak and how we really lose it to get a big OP. I noticed Enh shaman's 4set revolves around involve losing stacks through maelstrom, which at first I thought could be good for Arms, but then with how much rage arms uses, especially in execute window, we'd hardly have the MS buff.
I still think I'd prefer the jackpot gimmick on arms warrior like we discussed the other night.
smoky kayak
and nerfing it means there's a chance (though probably unlikely) that we might not need the talent in every single build, which I think would be a good thing overall
smoky kayak
Yeah it's pretty vague as to what gains the streak and how we really lose it to ...
I really like the idea of building up to a big OP, but the idea of it building a long/weak buff instead is super snooze IMO
that doesn't feel like a jackpot moment to me, since Overpower isn't high enough priority to care for the increased refresh rate anyway
brittle fiber
with the current text, i don't know how we exceed losing more than 3 stacks of winning streak at most
smoky kayak
it just becomes something I drop Deft for, and then I end up chain-casting Slam more when I don't have the buff running 💤
smoky kayak
with the current text, i don't know how we exceed losing more than 3 stacks of w...
I think 3 is about average, but you do occasionally consume higher and lower stack values
I don't really have an issue with that, I'm more concerned with what it does
brittle fiber
what makes you think it can exceed higher stack values? i assume you'd have to be in a window where you're chaining OP's waiting for MS reset or execute and then hoping that tactician carries the resets further
because from the 4 set text it seems you only have a 2 second window to build stacks
oooo overpower proc, better react 
