protection

[dire hazel]

itd be busted if it extends for party members

[sweet summit]

yeah

would kinda just delete the coordination part and youre only left with the positioning part

which isnt too hard, but you know how greedy dps players are

[quick epoch]

yeah coordination etc shouldnt be an issue for any mythic guild

[sweet summit]

trust me

it is

i have tried

[dire hazel]

the playstyle with that leggo seems funs though

[quick epoch]

nah people already positiom to max boomie convokes

[dire hazel]

lots of rage gen

[sweet summit]

yeah thats another thing

the rage gen from banner doesnt extend either

[outer solstice]

but is it viable for fury or arms? I don't think so sadly 😦

[dire hazel]

sadge

[outer solstice]

only being able to play prot is,... sad

[sweet summit]

viable is a very watered down term

literally anything is viable

playing specless is viable

optimal? hell no

[outer solstice]

yeah but you can be within like 2-5% of optimal

[sweet summit]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/148898720803586048/832009710831796255/68483300b831ef079b4f5f0a39b3a665.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/148898695696482305/831997073699110953/7b469c156b7df096a9b7c4aea41a09d0.png

[outer solstice]

damn, that's closer than I thought

ty

you think we can play sinful surge as prot?

[sweet summit]

its unbelievably bad

only extends last stand

not unnerving/bolster

[outer solstice]

oh yeah that was the catch

[sweet summit]

yeh :p

[outer solstice]

ty for reminding me

if it only would be SW 🙂

hehe

[sweet summit]

that wound be cool, yeah

[outer solstice]

but still useless I think

[sweet summit]

would be better than the current one at least xD

might have a niche

idk

[outer solstice]

wall gives such a great uptime, I somehow doubt it would even be worth

last stand with unnerving + bolster would be a great deal

[sweet summit]

might be a bit too strong if it did both though

at least bolster

i think uf would be fine, but its still very weak if it did

[outer solstice]

don't think so tbh

[sweet summit]

literally 100% uptime on sb without thinking 100->80 and 20->0

[outer solstice]

yeah ^^

but nothing more than SB+

[sweet summit]

idk man

block is very strong

[outer solstice]

on most bosses with a tank swap you can have it up so high already

it migth be a lot stronger on M+ though

but all just wishful thinking shrug

[sweet summit]

i dont think it would be that strong in m+ due to the amount of downtime between pulls, so you cant really extend it forever

thus, reprisal will be better

[outer solstice]

yeah reprisal is bonkers anyway ^^ love it

[sweet summit]

yep

same

[outer solstice]

all I want is reprisal + seismic *hehe

[sweet summit]

soon come

👀

[muted arch]

does IP have a max?

or can u keep adding to it

[outer solstice]

it has a max

it's the amoutn of 2 uses

so you want to have a tracker

#268491842637660160 message

there's a link to the tracker

the number changes color if you would waste some absorb(yellow) or even all absorb(red)

[muted arch]

oh thats what the color means lol

yeah i have that thanks!

[outer solstice]

yeah read the documentation of the weakaura

it actually is written on wago

[muted arch]

gotcha, thanks!

so i just hit max level on this guy yesterday

and tryna decide which slot to get my leggo on for reprisal

whatd u guys think the odds are of getting SLG pants before 9.1

lol

[median tulip]

Legs, and Haste/Versa

[muted arch]

think so?

think ive got what

3 resets before 9.1?

[urban portal]

Should you be casting a lot of ignore pain in m+

I feel like in raids there isn't much damage but sometimes shit goes down in m+

[muted arch]

my guess is cast what it takes to survive lol

[safe thistle]

HoA groundkeeper bolster ? i dont remember

[mellow bridge]

Yea they do

[muted arch]

im guessing niya sims highest for dps ya?

[urban portal]

Korayn sounds pretty good to me

You can charge/AA/revenge/intervene/revenge for a big burst

[muted arch]

in raid

i meant

[urban portal]

Ye

[muted arch]

?

[urban portal]

St is niya

M+ is korayn

[muted arch]

you think a burst would be worth giving up spiked burrs? lol

oh for m+ yeah

[safe thistle]

thnx

[left steppe]

what slot do i make Reprisal in for M+?

[muted arch]

legs unless u can get mythic SLG legs

[left steppe]

okay thanks, no chance of that anytime soon XD

[muted arch]

for big pump opener (ST), would pre place ravager>charge/Avatar>AA>continue regular rotation work?

[analog swift]

I'm working something out like this myself

you have to remember that ravagar will either pull early OR you've wasted a gcd as it isn't hitting the target

the only time I could think this would be good, and I don't know if it would, would be like sludgefist where you can ravager while he's charging to the pillar but before he impacts, then your next global is demo then ava+AA

[urban portal]

can you SR the soaks on 3rd boss of spires

[grim nymph]

no, but it will reduce the DoT damage

You can SR the stomp, though

[grim nymph]

When doing M+, I commonly have spear and ravager up simultaneously. Should I use them simultaneously, or desync them?

[signal plover]

Use both on CD unless the pull will die soon

If you have both at the start of a pull, precast ravager.

[grim nymph]

Makes sense

That's pretty much what I was doing unless I knew I'd need one on the next pull for snap threat

[limpid pawn]

for raid tanking, the wall seems underwhelming

[mighty valley]

it's pretty nice to have shield walls all the time

plus decent rage income increase

[chilly brook]

1m shield wall and the amount of rage you actually get over the course of a fight is definitely not underwhelming

[limpid pawn]

ah, so then go with anger managmenet too?

i've been using bolster usually

[chilly brook]

most boss fights in CN don't require bolster

[devout leaf]

hi all, contemplating switching from night fae to kyrian, as I see most prot warriors as kyrian for higher keys (im doing like 18's-19's now on my bear in a fairly non-intense way), is kyrian just safer since the spear lets you kite easier with the tether, pelagos is good, and phial is good? is it that significant of a change from night fae to kyrian?

[mighty valley]

they're close, NF is more damage, a lot of warrs take kyrian for the dungeon buffs

[chilly brook]

spear isn't even used for kiting

[mighty valley]

since kyrians are rarer

[chilly brook]

people play kyrian in dungeon because you rarely find kyrian dps

while phial can be useful it's likely never going to be the reason why you time a key

[devout leaf]

hmm thats fair, would it be worth waiting to see whats going to be best for 9.1 before making the swap now? i'm probably not going to be doing anything wild on my warrior for now until i get his ilvl higher

i know theres a lot of venthyrs and night faes around, would necrolord be worth taking if my group didnt have one? or is that just not worth it?

[mighty valley]

necro takes more work to be good, you want DPS that gets a lot out of mastery and you wanna coordinate with them

but like

you can do everything as any covenant, so you can pick based on vibes

[dusky canopy]

roughly how many item levels is having haste stat worth? vs a piece not having any haste stat?

[modern brook]

None

[dusky canopy]

so you would trade a piece that has a lot of any other stat besides haste to gain 3 item levels?

[mighty valley]

yes, unless it's a ring/neck, then i'd trade a few ilvls for better stats

[modern brook]

Ilvl>haste

U can get cute with jewelry

2ndaries don't matter tbh

At least while gearing

[dusky canopy]

idk man im happily sitting at my 29% haste

im just debating what to start doing about he vault upgrades

if they dont end up having haste

[modern brook]

Ya just put em on still

[mighty valley]

well we're late in the patch, do whatever makes you happy

[modern brook]

Armor Stam and str are all fat af

More 2ndaries better than better 2ndaries

Ie

Ilvl>haste

[unique shale]

yo guys is there any good weekaura for stone legion mythic to use ?

[elfin nova]

Every dps/healer(?) in the raid should have the soak one for p2 onwards but you don't need it

[limpid pawn]

how dead is classic?

[elfin nova]

Ask in #mop-discussion

[strong forum]

Yes

[jagged pier]

☝️

[obsidian girder]

Hey Guys, any idea what I could be doing wrong in m+ if I feel quite rage starved

Got 21% haste

[jagged pier]

Hard to tell without logs

1 of 2 things really your ither not using your generators enough

Or using your spender too much

Or both

But really cant say without logs

If you dont have logs best option honestly to go logs a few runs and link them here or to me or another SF and we will happily take a look

[obsidian girder]

Okay will do so.

[jagged pier]

If you dont know how then @strong forum @sweet summit can one of you paste the copy pasta?

[obsidian girder]

Shield slam is sitting over Revenge in damage. Not a usefully hint isn't it

Playing with reprisal

[strong forum]

SS should be your top dmg unless you're going for big dick overalls

[jagged pier]

☝️

[obsidian girder]

Good, seems like this is right :-)

Will try to get some logs

I bet I use IP too much

[strong forum]

If you feel rage starved then you're likely to not press enough buttons

And yea it's easy to overuse IP

Especially with reprisal you should have a good amount of rage gain independant from haste

[jagged pier]

☝️

[strong forum]

Jakey the finger man

He knows how to work em

[unique shale]

[jagged pier]

Well you saying what i would no point repeating when saying once enough

🤷

[ionic fern]

👇

[strong forum]

[jagged pier]

[unique shale]

I have stone legion mythic today

[jagged pier]

That more should be
'I have SLG mythic today'

[blazing condor]

he doesnt know

[unique shale]

[jagged pier]

Theres no hopium or copium on that fight

[strong forum]

It's just

24/7

But that's raid tanking period

Which is not a bad thing imo

[blazing condor]

sludge

[strong forum]

Sludge is the best fight

In CN

[blazing condor]

i always thought so even before i did mythic n shit

scripted fights that are still a check

[strong forum]

Scripted fights are usually the easiest

Or well, should be

[gaunt dawn]

name 1 non-scripted fight

[strong forum]

I'm talking fights like QC and Sludge

That are 100% on a timer

I guess orgo aswell

Eh orgo had push timings

But QC and Sludge don't change phases depending on how you're doing or w/e, the fight is always 100% the same

That's what I mean by scripted

[unique shale]

I too lazy to go kyrain for SLG

does it even worth it ?

[jagged pier]

Why would kyrian be worth on SLG?

[unique shale]

Free stack resat ?

[jagged pier]

Doesnt work on mythic

[unique shale]

oh really ?

[jagged pier]

Yes

[unique shale]

f kyrain then

venthyr for ever

[frosty ridge]

but later on on denathrius it resets remornia bleed stacks. probably not worth covenant change, but something to keep in mind just in case.

[strong forum]

Kyrian is great for aggro on slg

[jagged pier]

Thats true and holds the jumping adds in place

Plus on sire spear lines up with a lot of things

[jolly swift]

hows prot going, is it still sadge?

[jagged pier]

It never was

[unique shale]

prot still rocking wdym

[jolly swift]

i haven't been playing much attention tbh, might need to do some prot in 9.1 so was curious

[lime urchin]

Lol wtf is this

[jolly swift]

swear it was sadge before the 10% buff

[jagged pier]

Nope

[unique shale]

hate threat post from dh main

[jolly swift]

nah i am a fury warr 😄

[jagged pier]

It was communtiy percetion fueled by yt'ers and streamers which 99% couldnt play the class correctly

Prot was really really strong if played correctly

Nit many ppl could do that after bfa TC mongo. Build because it changed a lot and became harder to play

[strong forum]

Every tank got the 10% buff, so if anything, nothing would've changed

[jagged pier]

And that

Nah Nome scaling

[unique shale]

if anything would had made prot war better it was that 10% damage buff

[strong forum]

Dmg buff is always good

[unique shale]

[strong forum]

But again, pwar was fine before 9.0.5, but obv we got quite a bit stronger with reprisal and the dmg buff. That would be stupid to deny

[jolly swift]

thats good to hear, whats a good resource to look into for the latest stuff

[strong forum]

Hasn't been any latest stuff, if youre looking for tanking resources, icy veins guide and tanknotes are a good place to start

Nothing happening to tanks 9.1

[jolly swift]

ty will look, yeah i saw the bis legendaries dont really change

[blazing condor]

Feels like for us to get a new bis legendary they’ll either have to rework our class or release something that gives us the same benefits of reprisal + a bunch of other stuff

Which is just op

[jagged pier]

☝️

I mean rep is kinda busted, have the same SW cd as (bolster and the wall) but have more effective block uptime and damage

🤔

[blazing condor]

Yep

Its busted

And with that bustedness it didnt make us OP as a class

[jagged pier]

Cant wait to just have 2 one on legs and one on boots

[blazing condor]

Cant wait to play the same leggo and covenant for the rest of the xpac

[jagged pier]

True

[blazing condor]

we were always strong but i feel like you cant take away reprisal at this point

[jagged pier]

U can we just loose a bit when it happens

But oh well borrowed power for an expansion again

[blazing condor]

🔫

[ornate magnet]

whats good tanky boys! getting the itch and thinking of resubbing. how's prot warrior doing in high keys atm?

[amber herald]

doing good

[blazing condor]

Prot warr is great in the right hands. Andybrew's warrior has 3,45k rio right now

top 7 in the world for every tank and he can definitely do higher keys if him and his team pushed

[jagged pier]

At 1 point u had dh 1, prot warrior 2, and druid 3, in highest keys done prot is fine at high levels

[obsidian girder]

Hey, asked several hours ago that I feel rage starved. You guys said you need logs.

Screenshots out of details fine too ?

Eg. 35% uptime of shield block

[jagged pier]

No

[signal plover]

Lot to unpack there

[jagged pier]

Logs are far better, details generally tell us nothing

[signal plover]

Details shield block uptime is useless

[jagged pier]

☝️

Details doesnt = logs

[obsidian girder]

Okay

Thanks 😅

[strong forum]

That's very low uptime tho

Even if its not the correct thing to look at

It's still very low

[signal plover]

Yeah but the best advice we can rly give there is "read the guides and implement what you learn"

[toxic kelp]

Do u spend much rage on Ignore Pain?

[signal plover]

Not really

[mighty monolith]

is improved shield block worth it?

[signal plover]

TBC question?

[mighty monolith]

yea

[signal plover]

Afaik yes, it's the best way to cover crushing blows

But you'll want #mop-discussion or the Fight Club discord for details

[mighty monolith]

aight

[vale zealot]

Hey all, I recently picked up my warrior and finished leveling. I've tried to find this info online but can't. I'm not sure if it's my inconsistent play still or not, but ... does a priest PW:S still mess up rage generation?

[strong forum]

Never noticed it

So I cant truthfully answer that

[sweet summit]

you barely get rage from damage taken anymore so idk

[strong forum]

Ye it's 3 rage per second ( if you get meleed that quickly)

So nothing really that fucks you up if you miss 1 or 2 hits off of it

if that even is a thing anymore

[vale zealot]

Gotcha, prob just me not knowing the spec very well yet

[signal plover]

I don't think that's a thing anymore

Certainly not impactful if it is

[blazing condor]

yeah nothing ive ever noticed

[plush tendon]

Ill have you know, my new BC War gets all his rage by getting smacked around like a rag doll 😛

[blazing condor]

anymore
BC

[sweet summit]

[plush tendon]

[eternal basin]

anyone free/up for some brainstorming for optimizing?

[sweet summit]

Whats up

[jagged pier]

about what?

[signal plover]

In b4 vers stacking question

[jagged pier]

was my thought

[muted arch]

should we be saving soul ash for 9.1 on new alts or no need?

thought i saw that u can get better leggos for same price or something

[sweet summit]

U still need it for ranks 1-4

[hollow sun]

what soul ash

[jagged pier]

u need soul ash form 1-4 and u need the new stuff from the new layers next patch, also u can transfer soul ash to other chars so u can hoard a load now

and give it to alt if u dont need it

which u wont as rep is still our best leggo

[ionic fern]

Watch them nerf Reprisal to ground so other options look more "appealing".

[jagged pier]

please no

[sweet summit]

[blazing condor]

touch Reprisal and i'll show you reprisal

[jagged pier]

[muted arch]

oh so to make a rank 6 leggo u need the usual 5k soul ash for rank 4 and then 2k soul cinders?

so theres no harm in my making my leggo now then?

[sweet summit]

From rank 0 i think thats correct yeah

No harm

[jagged pier]

☝️

[reef shoal]

new to prot and reprisal, do you guys pop 2 charges of charge and intervene every pull? is it normal that spear of bastion is my highest dmg ability? what % uptime should my shield block uptime be at the end of a dungeon?

[mighty cairn]

for q1 you can mostly just play packs normally with reprisal and use intervene/charge again to kite when approprite

[reef shoal]

use intervene to kite?

i feel so wasteful wasting that revenge proc

[mighty cairn]

like interveneing out to a ranged party member if necessary

in m+ i also focus a melee and have a macro for cast intervene on focus

so it's basically another button you press for sb, free rage, and a revenge

[signal plover]

Revenge should be your highest dmg ability (for overall dmg in a dungeon)

SB uptime you need logs to gauge cuz details metric is useless.

[reef shoal]

why is details useless?

[chilly brook]

Because your uptime is a useless metric

% blocked hits is much more useful

[muted arch]

High uptime can still mean youre playing bad if you mostly have it up when theres no blockable damage

[signal plover]

There is some value to the details one because, afaik, at least it tracks combat only

But it won't get you to the number we typically reference here which is effective uptime

[muted arch]

Like say a boss is doing a 5 second spell cast and u have SB up, that increased uptime by 5 sec but it actually totally wasted the charge of SB

[signal plover]

^

[muted arch]

Hey so, is rally generally a more valuable raid CD than AMZ now given 9.1 nerf?

In raid

[chilly brook]

Define much more valuable

You're always going to have a warrior for shout and rally

[signal plover]

I think Rally still sits in the "nice to have but not needed" category

[frosty ridge]

also keep in mind AMZ scales with hp, so BDK AMZ will be more valuable than ADK's

[signal plover]

But WF guilds will always bring 1 warr for shout

[frosty ridge]

yea monk, warr and dh are mandatory. dk is not

[muted arch]

i mean like say u have a dps warrior, a wind walker and a havoc

so all buffs covered

is a DK tank or warrior tank more valuable for their raid CDs

[jagged pier]

yer but compared to other dps specs they are a bit meh

so u take the buff in a tank spot so u can have say another warlock or somthing

[frosty ridge]

duh, but roster is roster, so you work with what you have

[sweet summit]

If thats the case you just play whatever tank youre more comfortable on

[muted arch]

say youre comfortable on all lol

[frosty ridge]

yep

[sweet summit]

Now youre just being difficult 😂

[muted arch]

not exactly, you are LOL. all i'm asking is if anyones aware of whether rally or AMZ are more valuable raid CDs after nerf

[frosty ridge]

play what you like more. I wish I had that kind of freedom of choice

[chilly brook]

If you dont have a dk period you bring the DK for AMZ

[sweet summit]

Depends on the raid mechanic
I still think rally is better even after the buff

[frosty ridge]

AMZ is still good, especially on BDK because more hp

[chilly brook]

But you're likely going to have an unholy DK

You're throwing if you don't dedicate a melee slot to unholy tbh

[frosty ridge]

not like 1 amz fills the amz hole in your heart

more AMZs the better

[chilly brook]

Having multiple can be good

But if you're gonna have multiple it's best to just fill as unholy

[frosty ridge]

just saying, bdk amz is tight, more hp probably more vers

[muted arch]

yeah but its still hella disappointing compared to what it was in 9.0/905

[chilly brook]

Regardless

It's not worth worrying over tank selection unless you need to fill a specific buff/CD

[frosty ridge]

yea, if you have monk/dh/war covered by dps just pick whatever you like more

[muted arch]

yeah im just a lil bored of my veng and since havoc is good/we recruited a havoc

im tryna decide which tank to play

[frosty ridge]

you have a great opportunity to just pick the most fun for you, don't waste it, I'm jealous

[sturdy sable]

Or just play a warrior and make your dps warriors worry about the security of their raid spot

[chilly brook]

Facts

[muted arch]

just got this warrior to max level yesterday, so far im finding warrior pretty fun

would love to play my pally, but unfortunately... lol

[chilly brook]

I mean why don't you?

They're really not as bad as everyone likes to meme about

[frosty ridge]

especially if you're a "normal" guild that gets to last bosses already geared and not in the first week of progress, pally is fine

[sturdy sable]

No but the problem is everyone thinks they are

[neat mountain]

Hi guys!
I'd like to ask about the Devastator perk. It says that auto attacks have a 20% chance to reset the cooldown on Shield Slam. At around lvl. 35 the Shield Slam gets an upgrade that allowes it to have 30% chance to be reset by using TC, Revenge, Execute and also Devastate.
What happens to the Devastator perk? It becomes a 30% chance or it stays 20%? Maybe they add up to 50%? (I bet it doesn't)

[chilly brook]

Stays at 20%

But it's more resets than devastate on average

[sturdy sable]

Also i couldn't imagine doing the movement on sire as a pally lol

[frosty ridge]

I don't like both wheelchair specs too, but to each their own

[chilly brook]

I'd honestly probably play BrM rn if I wasn't locked into warrior

[frosty ridge]

I'm exactly the opposite right now lol

[strong forum]

[neat mountain]

Thanks for the quick answer!

[muted arch]

I like vipping around on veng but the rotations boring af

Warrior seems a bit more involved but that may be just be cuz im still learning lol

[frosty ridge]

no you're right, fracture soul cleave spam gets old fast

[distant crystal]

feels like there's something weird with VDH resources right now too

[muted arch]

Ya and defensives generally dont cost anything more than a global

So theres never really a choice to be made on how to spend resources like a warrior

[distant crystal]

You're either overcapping pain or starved and need to wait around for more to use stuff

I think Fel Dev should require less/no pain and all your generation should be toned down a bit

[strong forum]

"right now"

VDH is anything but well thought out

[muted arch]

Hmm i don’t ever feel like im overcapping or out of fury on veng

[distant crystal]

i probably spent like 2 hours spec'd vengeance in all of BFA lol

so right now is all i know

[muted arch]

You maybe get 3 empty globals a fight which are filled with sigil of flame

[strong forum]

its like 4 different tanks mashed into 1

or well half of 4 tanks

mashed into 1 mess of a class

sigil system

brand "system"

soul system

pain system

all mashed together none of them designed well

[frosty ridge]

having two buttons system

[strong forum]

while also having massive downtime on your active mitigation

aswell as having a 6sec godlike window every now and again

a huge mess of a spec

[sturdy sable]

But nom the self healing is supposed to cover gaps /s

[strong forum]

[frosty ridge]

well not massive, with leggo you weave in something always

[strong forum]

im talking demon spikes

[sweet summit]

🩹

[strong forum]

as in massive downtime

18sec CD that lasts only for 4 seconds

[sturdy sable]

Dh has been weaving something to cover since its inception

[strong forum]

[frosty ridge]

yea, but demon spikes is not everything, you got fel dev and fiery brand

[muted arch]

Theres almost no downtime in active mitigation with fiery brand leggo, i dont think defnesives are the issue

[strong forum]

it still is a glaring design issue

[sturdy sable]

Yeah and both of those are/were used to cover gaos

Gaps*

[frosty ridge]

it is, but kinda fixed accidentally by leggo

[muted arch]

And tbh, warrior doesnt have much more of a rotation without charge weaving

[strong forum]

who has

[sturdy sable]

Uh we shield slam tyvm

[strong forum]

not a single class in the game is more than a 4 button spec

in their rotation

[muted arch]

Pally maybe

They have 5 LOL

[strong forum]

shield, judgement and hammer

i count 3

[sturdy sable]

No counting defensives?

[muted arch]

Consecration

[strong forum]

thats more a maintenance buff / filler

[muted arch]

And yeah sotr is defensive but also does dam

[strong forum]

for when your other 3 buttons are on CD

[frosty ridge]

well, monk has tiger palm, keg smash, blackout kick, rushing jade wind, spinning crane kick, breath of fire as rotation

[sturdy sable]

So does shield block if you count its buffing of slam

[muted arch]

I suppose ya

[strong forum]

if we count maintenance buffs

[frosty ridge]

also chi wave if you spec into it

[strong forum]

then there is more, but no rotation is complex

its wow afterall

[frosty ridge]

yea of course

[muted arch]

I fully agree DH is most simple, theres never a real choice to make

U either spam 2 buttons or hit a cd lol

[strong forum]

they should rework the spec

[inland raft]

Ill have tou know my arms rotation in tbc classic is extremely complex, i slam and slam and then press mortal strike and on rare occassion when have the rage i even whirlwind

[frosty ridge]

the only decision on DH is do I hold some pain for my fel dev basically

[strong forum]

and either go full on 1 of the 4 systems they have

make VDH a full brand spec

or a full sigil spec

not this weird bullshit that is fiery brand wannabe button

and then they bring out sinful brand

to make the brand system a reality

like come on

decide on 1 thing

[muted arch]

Tbh coming to warr from DH the amount of choice actually feels a lil overwhelming at first LOL

[strong forum]

pwar is one of the few tanks that has a choice in their rotation

between offensive and defensive

[inland raft]

Do i do damage or do i scream loudly at mobs that want to hurt me

[strong forum]

which alot of people struggle with to play properly

[muted arch]

It can be annoying if u want to parse

[strong forum]

not really

if you want to parse you know what youre doing

not much thought process going on

you cant parse if youre not knowledgeable or experienced

unless youre vdh

[inland raft]

You dont parse unless you have the fight down pat with consistency which at that point you know what you doing

[strong forum]

vdh ceiling is incredibly low compared to the other tanks

bear has among the highest ceilings for parsing

[muted arch]

I mean that to parse youd have to give up some defensive use, which isnt the case with DH for example

[strong forum]

🤷‍♂️

fights are easy enough

[muted arch]

In overgeared farm ya

[strong forum]

even on first kills i got my orange parses

cuz playing optimally often results in high parses already

its only the top 5 where shit gets real hefty in differences

[frosty ridge]

same for monk, you're never doing anything different defensively/offensively. the only thing you can do is intentionally take more damage during your Nizzy, so he stomps for more. invites degenerate gameplay like spamming /sit macro to get crits in the face

[strong forum]

if you play optimally, you will automatically get a good parse

[frosty ridge]

yea

[strong forum]

especially as tank

cuz there are so many bad ones out there

[muted arch]

I mean any rage spent on ignore pain is a dps loss

[strong forum]

not always

[muted arch]

Explain

[inland raft]

But that video posted in here the othwr day told me all i spend rage on is IP how can i be bad if i do that?

[strong forum]

if youre in danger of overcapping, youre better off using rage on IP

cuz its off GCD

[muted arch]

Lol okay i mean any time you chocze IP

Chose*

[strong forum]

well duh

i accidentally used 3 more IP on my #7 huntsman kill than on my best parse before

but did 300 dps more

went from 2 IP to 5 IP casts

[inland raft]

Ip dps increase confirmed

[strong forum]

you heard it here first folks

[inland raft]

Taking revenj off my bars

[strong forum]

WW 🙏

[inland raft]

Blizzard probably thinking to themselves ways to make us use it as we speak

Tier set is gonna be built off ww

[sweet summit]

WW buffs your next shield slam making it hit 4 additional targets

[strong forum]

tiersets give bonuses

for || pet battling ||

blizz is really trying to hold off on the idea of binding playerpower to sets again

so i wouldnt count my horses on them giving proper bonuses

[inland raft]

I expect it will be minor shit

[strong forum]

3% movementspeed

[inland raft]

Like shield slam gens 1 additional rage or something, nice but overall unimpactful in any real way

Then they can say see we gave it

[frosty ridge]

I mean, those gems are the sets, they just don't want to think of unique bonuses for every spec, so they jam it all in generic gem bonuses like more dot damage etc

[strong forum]

increases target cap numbers

ඞ

the sets are coming in 9.2 host

they mentioned that

[frosty ridge]

yea we'll see, I think they'd rather do generic gem sets

easier

[inland raft]

Its gonna be class generic for sure but prob not as broad as the gems

So look at stuff shared between the specs prob

[strong forum]

great

more useless shit

[inland raft]

They def too lazy to do spec specific

[strong forum]

like cov legendaries

but as gem sets

[frosty ridge]

yea cov legendaries, not sure who is it for

[strong forum]

cov legendaries, what is it good for, absolutely nothing!

dance

[frosty ridge]

say it again

[inland raft]

At most if its even somewhat spec specific itll be same bonus but applying an aura buff to signature ability loke bloodthirst, revenge, mortal strike

And thats being optimistic if you ask me

[blazing condor]

i miss the dragon soul tier set we had for pwar

shield wall becomes a raid-wide effect

[sweet summit]

Thats some strong hopium

[blazing condor]

i honestly dont really care

[inland raft]

Def not that since we have a knockoff of that in legendary form

So 0 chance

[blazing condor]

balance leggos by making them tier set effects

[inland raft]

Tier set turn rallying cry into commanding shout

[blazing condor]

challenging shout*

[inland raft]

I said commanding

[sweet summit]

[blazing condor]

challenging shout turns into commanding shout

[sweet summit]

Demo shout turns into commanding shout

[strong forum]

battle shout turns into pride shout

[blazing condor]

revenj turns into BFA full-buffed TC

[sturdy sable]

Revenge causes your next shield slam it hit 5 targets

Or every target with deep wounds

[inland raft]

And shield slam casts cleave

[sturdy sable]

And cleave casts thunder clap

Make it cyclical lmao

[inland raft]

Press one button and then go afk and top meters

Ez

[sturdy sable]

Ez pz

Though being able to cleave shield slam would be cool

Or hell execute/condemn

[blazing condor]

every button casts revenge

[sturdy sable]

Except revenge

[warped mulch]

Revenge does 150% more damage if it only hits in be target

[sturdy sable]

I'd like that

More dps please lol

[strong forum]

revenge does 150% more dmg if the target is chilled

[chilly brook]

🤌

[neat lagoon]

Your initial Demo Shout procs Avatar for 5 seconds and casts a free TC.

[sturdy sable]

Every demo shout*

[neat lagoon]

Well I mean like yes every Demo shout but when you cast it you get 5 seconds Avatar and a free TC. So yeah every time you use it. Imagine that in keys?

Shit even on a boss it’ll boost dps big time

[strong forum]

5sec is a bit short

thats not alot of casts

you get 3 globals

[neat lagoon]

Imagine how often you cast Demo shout. Now give 5 seconds of avatar every Demo shout. PLUS using avatar outside of it

[sturdy sable]

Eh its more of a small QoL/dps boost

[neat lagoon]

I think that’s a good bonus. Nothing crazy but definitely a plus

[strong forum]

its better than nothing

but hardly anything

[neat lagoon]

I mean the SS cleaving would be broken

[strong forum]

thats what set bonuses should be.

[neat lagoon]

Let’s be real here lol

[sturdy sable]

^

[strong forum]

they should influence your spec's power by quite a bit

they wont cuz blizz is dumb

but they should

[sturdy sable]

It would also change your playstyle in aoe having to weave revenges inbetween slams/slam procs to maximize cleave

[stark sage]

its hard to quantify for tanks since survivability is more pass/fail than dps
but dps set bonuses tend to feel 'good' at the ~3-6% increase for 2 set and 5-10% for 4pc. anything that gets in the combined 20+ range tends to be considered very overpowered

[neat lagoon]

I guess but imagine if that was real. Prot warriors in keys would immediately jump to top Tank. We’d probably beat most DPS if we had that. So now to balance it you’d have to boost alllll the other classes just so they won’t get smashed by warriors. After all said and done, you’re making content remedial

[sturdy sable]

I mean id imagine other classes would be also getting set bonuses here

[strong forum]

thats the premise

[sturdy sable]

So thats really hard to tell

[neat lagoon]

So we want to just boost everyone up and allow everyone to push 20’s?

[sturdy sable]

If every tank class got something equal to this then it wouldnt really change the status quo

[strong forum]

everyone can push 20s

[sturdy sable]

Just run keys faster

4head

[stark sage]

well the idea is that gear is meant to improve your character, and you need to see those improvements being able to attain greater achievements in game,
so kinda yeah, gear should boost you to do better at the game

[neat lagoon]

I mean there would be no challenge than. How about you give people generic gear like we have now. There are sooooo many combinations you can run. Your character is as good as you, the player, makes it. I’m always for more basic gearing and letting the players be the difference. Not the gear

[stark sage]

i mean the content would also get harder over time

[jagged pier]

thats why CMs were better than m+

just saying

[neat lagoon]

@jagged pier I partially agree

[jagged pier]

also gave better rewards than m+

[neat lagoon]

You’re basically asking for Diablocraft

[strong forum]

you know that set bonuses have always been another tuning knob for blizzard

and that classes literally lived and died based on set bonuses

prior to bfa

i reckon you havent played legion

[jagged pier]

then they lived and died on azerite powers

[strong forum]

yup

[jagged pier]

no CD on SS

geif back

[neat lagoon]

@strong forum trust me I know I mained a DH in legion.

[jagged pier]

ew

[strong forum]

yeah so i dont see your point

[neat lagoon]

But you’re making everything OP if you just want to buff the fuck out of everyone.

You wana run around like Diablo?

[strong forum]

thats... kinda the point? remember MoP?

[neat lagoon]

Smashing shit without worrying

[sturdy sable]

Yeah sounds fun

Almost like this is a Video Game

[strong forum]

you know they can always increase the difficutly according to player power aswell

right

[neat lagoon]

WOTLK best expansion just mimic that and we’re fine

[stark sage]

wotlk had op tier sets didnt it

[sturdy sable]

Pretty good ones yeah

[neat lagoon]

Yeah but it didn’t break the game

You didn’t NEED them

[stark sage]

neither did legion

also you didnt need them in wotlk because the general playerbase was casual and didnt know how to log

[neat lagoon]

Yeah but legion had artifact. I can agree with all of legion but that

[strong forum]

a warrior didnt need shadowmourne in wrath

but you sure as hell did way better if you did

[sturdy sable]

He needed armour pen

[strong forum]

[sturdy sable]

And a dream

[strong forum]

we're not gonna agree here, i think we should get powerful items and gear, you think we should have stat sticks. Which are both opinions to have

and thats that

[sturdy sable]

Least favorite thing is when a stat stick trinket is the bis thing i could put on

[strong forum]

so like 90% of trinkets

[sturdy sable]

Yep

[strong forum]

[sturdy sable]

I miss cool useful trinkets

[strong forum]

we all do

[neat lagoon]

They just need to bring back hit. expertise. defense. That’ll give you plenty of hearing options that are class and role specific. That make more sense

[sturdy sable]

And being incharge of my own survival

[strong forum]

hitting arbitrary thresholds so my character doesnt miss

[blazing condor]

🤢

[strong forum]

ohno

ohnonononono

[blazing condor]

they should bring back reforging now since those things are out of the game

[neat lagoon]

There’s no “depth”

[sturdy sable]

Which i could do with my cool trinkets damnit! Lol

[strong forum]

hit and experise are one of the worst things a game can ever have

[neat lagoon]

It’s just “highest item level wins”

[strong forum]

theres no depth to hitting hit cap and expertise cap either

[sweet summit]

The "depth" is the fights and class mechanics imo

[neat lagoon]

Well class mechanics have only become easier imo

[sweet summit]

Since when

[neat lagoon]

I mean tanks aren’t even tanks anymore.

Just DPS who live longer

[jagged pier]

[strong forum]

nobody gonna disagree with that

[jagged pier]

the turtle build fan bois will

[strong forum]

ah well

they are called bad players

[sturdy sable]

We call those people cowards

[strong forum]

tanks arent tanks in classic by a long shot

[neat lagoon]

And I love retail more than classic but I mean that’s why I tank. Why limit yourself to a DPS when you can be both in a tank role

Half the time in keys im always above a DPS

[strong forum]

damn

thats some bad dps players then

if youre anywhere near 80% of a dps player, that dps player is bad or a warlock

[sweet summit]

Warlocks own

[neat lagoon]

5.5-6k from a Prot Warrior beats A LOT of DPS in the 13-17 key range

[strong forum]

only on high keys, erga

[neat lagoon]

Well maybe 6k. But I see a lot of people only hitting 5.5k at most

[strong forum]

very bad dps then

[sweet summit]

Affli onetricks maybe

Destro slaps regardless

[strong forum]

why would you play anything but affli

destro is just a worse firemage

if you dont play affli as warlock, might aswell not play warlock

[sweet summit]

Ok

[strong forum]

thats my take on warlock

forever and always

[sweet summit]

Wild take

[strong forum]

the correct take

[somber stump]

while tanking sludgefist, should the tanks only be getting either melee or giant fists or can it be both aswell?

[blazing condor]

its the same

so doesnt matter who leads

[somber stump]

trying to use reprisal optimally and i'm on 80%+ uptime on it with 88% on my last try so i take loads of less dmg than my other tank, but he's getting some giant fist hits aswell

this is dmg taken on our last attempt

[strong forum]

It's easier if the other is MT

[somber stump]

trying to figure out if im gutting him by getting pushed back and intervening to get shield block uptime

yeah he is Mt'ing but i sometimes take aggro

[strong forum]

[somber stump]

he's a prot pally

[strong forum]

How

[blazing condor]

[strong forum]

Prot pally should do like easily 1k dps more than you

If you're getting aggro that means he sucks massive dick

[jagged pier]

[strong forum]

But any who, you should charge on every roar

[blazing condor]

oooorrrr we have a #1 200iq pwarr in here

[strong forum]

On every stomp

Intervene on CD basically

[blazing condor]

@jagged pier plug your vid

[strong forum]

Preferably on chain slam targets

Intervene your cotank and Pop SW if he's in danger

[somber stump]

yeah that's not the issue right now, it's ppl failing moving out of rubble or breaking chains which guts us xD

[blazing condor]

[strong forum]

Not your concern Crex

[blazing condor]

its an incredibly ungrateful fight to play as a tank

but its also incredibly fun

[somber stump]

i like the fight alot tbh

really fun to tank as OT

[strong forum]

Cuz it's the best fight in CN

For healers and tanks alike

Literally the best fight of the tier

[blazing condor]

☝️

depression hits as you finally kill it and now you gotta do SLG

[somber stump]

only had to tank from arti upwards so haven't done the ones before as a tank yet

[strong forum]

Slg depression already hit me on council

Artificer actually

The everlasting dread

Of inevitably stepping closer

Boss by boss

To the worst boss since forever

[blazing condor]

i hope the next tier wont be incredibly repetitive in theme

if everything looks the same it'll just be

not fun

[strong forum]

I mean every boss has been tested

And seen

[blazing condor]

not by me

[strong forum]

Neither by me

But imagine torghast the raid

There you go

That's your theme

[blazing condor]

yeah thats what i figured

but maybe theres a chance

[strong forum]

There's a fall guys boss

So that's something

[blazing condor]

pog

your raid gets split up into teams and you gotta steal all the eggs

[strong forum]

Something like that

The everlasting theme of "don't stand in bad"

[lucid sand]

and "dodge swirlies"

[blazing condor]

cant wait for DDR the encounter

[jagged pier]

its a bit out of date at this point

[blazing condor]

yeah maybe

but the reprisal usage still checks out

and general idea of the fight

[jagged pier]

good point

[jagged pier]

something something shameless plughttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNrx_TNv1No&ab_channel=Jakeyplops

[somber stump]

lemme just watch it after raid 😛

[muted arch]

is there like a sweet spot for dumping rage before using a shield slam proc

i know it generates 20 rage, but sometimes i use it at say like 76 rage and then my next melee hit also generates rage causing overcap

[strong forum]

Generates 15 rage doesn't it?

Melee hit generates only 2 rage

[jagged pier]

yes

sweet spot is 84 rage

so u dont over cap

[strong forum]

But in the event of overcapping I'd prolly reflexively use IP

[jagged pier]

^^

[strong forum]

It's just programmed in to use IP if at high rage

In my brain

[jagged pier]

same

i use it at the start of sire even when im not tanking

[strong forum]

I often also use SB even when not tanking cuz im so used to just pressing it

Takes actual thought not to press SB

[jagged pier]

yer i do that by accident

trying not to do that right now

[strong forum]

I did that tons on shriek

Use my 2 charges when I'm not tanking

And then tank and have to use SW or LS cuz I don't have any charges left

[jagged pier]

yer if i get them back i will

[blazing condor]

nothing like using a big defensive CD you wont need for a while because you dont wanna pump rage into SB

[strong forum]

It's moreso cuz I don't have charges left for when I actually needed them

[muted arch]

is there something other than SS thats generating rage?

[strong forum]

But in execute I don't know what SB is

[blazing condor]

Thunder Clap

[strong forum]

Thunderclap and melee attacks

Aswell as getting hit

[muted arch]

sometimes im at like 92 after SS and then suddenly at 100 without pressing anything

[strong forum]

And charge

Auto attacks generate 2 rage

Getting hit generates 3 rage

Thunderclap generates 5 rage

Avatar generates 30 rage

[muted arch]

ahhh getting hit okay

[sweet summit]

1 sec icd

[muted arch]

so then i prob shouldnt use SS at 84 rage like someone said

[strong forum]

Charge generates 15+20 rage(if reprisal equipped)

[muted arch]

like if im at 84, i should prob use IP before SS

[strong forum]

Demo shout with BV talented generates 40 rage

Ravager generates 60 rage

Spear generates.... 36? Rage

[muted arch]

i mean just passive stuff

[strong forum]

Ya im just listing literally everything rn

Anything else

[neat lagoon]

Just keep spamming Revenge? If you taking damage, use IP.

Kinda straight forward if you’re tanking a boss.

[sweet summit]

revenge is a global

ip is not

and if youre at 80 rage youre vibing with rage

[muted arch]

sorry so what im wondering is, if im currently main tanking (so taking damage) + taking auto attack rage into account

and what rage level should i dump before pressing SS

without risking overcap

[neat lagoon]

It’s a feel

Everyone is different

[muted arch]

im doing it at around ~80

so ill always dump before SS if at 80 rage

otherwise i SS on CD

[neat lagoon]

It depends on situation. Are you planning on taking a big hit? Put it into a IP+SB. Are you sitting safe? Spam revenged non stop.

[strong forum]

Don't spam revenge

If you're below 80 don't spam revenge back to back

[neat lagoon]

You can spam it. Like I said it’s situational.

[strong forum]

Waste of a global to use 2 revenges unless TC and SS are both on CD

[neat lagoon]

If there’s nothing going on. Not at any risk. No issue whatsoever

What is your item level @muted arch

[strong forum]

You always want the CD on SS instantly used because of the 30% reset chance of Revenge and TC. And the 20% reset chance from auto attacks(devastator)

[neat lagoon]

obviously ?

[muted arch]

oh like ilvl 200, just got to 60 yesterday lol

[strong forum]

Not as obv for someone who's new

Which has to be taken into account

[neat lagoon]

All of this information is on every warrior guide that exists

[strong forum]

"spamming revenge" is misleading for someone that is new

[neat lagoon]

I’m not being a duck. I’m just saying it’s all available.

If you look on icyveins wowhead noxxic they will all give you this

[sweet summit]

noxxic

[muted arch]

okay so say im at like 85 rage or whatever, and get a SS proc. Im currently offtanking (not taking any damage), do i IP>SS or revenge>ss?

[neat lagoon]

After taking what those guides say. Then tweak your playable

[strong forum]

There you can afford to revenge

Over the ss cast

[muted arch]

yeah okay cool

so basically, max dps is revenge>ss (when about to overcap)

[strong forum]

But that's a very very niche situation

[neat lagoon]

No SS is more

[sweet summit]

SS is more damage per global

and it generates rage

[neat lagoon]

But you don’t want to overcap. So you use the revenge first than the SS

[muted arch]

right im saying if it would overcap you

yeah

[strong forum]

Like the situation of almost overcapping with nothing else ready is so rare

Incredibly rare

[stark sage]

i mean step one is to not be in that situation in the first place by properly managing rage

[muted arch]

is it really that rare?

seems to happen once/twice per raid boss for me

[strong forum]

Yeah that's rare

[modern brook]

If ss is off cd and would rage cap you u just ip

And so anyways

[stark sage]

i feel like i'm only risking rage cap when i run ravager

[muted arch]

yeah but im saying if u dont need the IP

[neat lagoon]

@muted arch if you’re tanking a boss. Currently tanking and taking damage you should almost always have either a SB or an IP up. (Sometimes both at the same time). Doing this should cause you to never be capped.

[stark sage]

you should just IP

smooths damage, counts as rage for AM

[modern brook]

Wasting rage or a Gcd is worse than overcapping ip shield

[neat lagoon]

@muted arch also what legendary are you using? And what is you’re Covenant? This will change things possibly. Like your possible rotation.

[stark sage]

yeah if you're at ~85 rage or w/e and you have SS ready
SS + IP -> revenge is what i would do to avoid capping and managing SS on CD

[sweet summit]

it will not change things, other than the fact that SS with the wall generates 20 rage

[muted arch]

night fae and no leggo yet

just got to 60 yesterday

gunna be reprisal

[modern brook]

This

[neat lagoon]

Nah it can. You have Aftershock. So that is also a way to generate rage abs plan on incoming rage

[modern brook]

With the exception of u condemn in st when u can instead of revenge

[sweet summit]

it does not generate any rage instantly

[neat lagoon]

So for instance you don’t want to aftershock if you’re close to full rage. Dump some first.

Overtime.

[muted arch]

okay but like theoretically speaking here

if u wanna max dps, does it really matter if u use IP or just overcap

cuz realistically, wahts the difference lol

[stark sage]

IP is a dps increase if it would save you from capping

[sweet summit]

IP>overcap

[neat lagoon]

Well if you’re using AM spec than yes

[muted arch]

how so?

[stark sage]

because of AM

[strong forum]

Don't overcap rage because you lose that rage for AM

[muted arch]

ahhh

[neat lagoon]

AM will reset your cooldown quicker

[modern brook]

right but

[muted arch]

okay yeah great point

[modern brook]

your dump

is off gcd

If you're going to rage cap

you IP

[neat lagoon]

Of course

[modern brook]

so it has no impact

u just dump w/ ip more

[muted arch]

who's got a calculus formula for the maximum amount of overcap that decreases dps

[sweet summit]

1

[modern brook]

x>0 is a dps loss

[sweet summit]

like

it depends

you might overcap enough to lose a cast

which, is huge

[strong forum]

Just avoid overcapping

No need to think this hard about it

[stark sage]

also if it happens like once a fight, you're not going to see dps gains by worry about it or not

[strong forum]

[muted arch]

hahaha i figured if u overcap by say like 3 rage, using that 43 on revenge would be more dps than dumping 40 into IP

[strong forum]

Not necessarily

Cuz you spend 2 globals dumping rage

[neat lagoon]

Depends on spec. BSC prolly. AM maybe not.

[strong forum]

2 globals which could've generated rage instead

Ykno

[neat lagoon]

idk tho

[muted arch]

anyway i know what im saying is pointless hahaha

[strong forum]

Revenge is not a rage dump perse

IP is

[stark sage]

yeah because you're not just comparing revenge vs IP
its revenge vs IP + SS or something

[strong forum]

^

[stark sage]

and SS is more damage per gcd than revenge

[strong forum]

Opportunity cost

[stark sage]

so its already the best

[sweet echo]

Would you recommend using booming voice of if you have alar trinket, or blood scale trinket? Currently have DFV and SLG trinket

[muted arch]

like if u at 86 rage, and get ss proc, ur choice is either IP + SS or just SS, take the 1 rage overcap then revenge

[modern brook]

booming voice is used if ur not taking reprisal

trinkets have no impact

[strong forum]

Neither has an impact on trinket choice

[sweet echo]

Mmm. Got it.

[stark sage]

you can IP + SS then revenge, remember you still have that other 50 rage leftover

or w/e

[strong forum]

I would IP

[sweet echo]

For the big revenge dam

[muted arch]

yeah i also IP there on reflex

im just wondering theoretically which is more dps for fun

[stark sage]

its probably basically equal dps wise, but you get a 'free' IP

[sweet echo]

What would opener look like? Charge, clap revenge? Currently NF so maybe someone can help aight hat

[stark sage]

basically equal like single digit dps variance

[sweet summit]

ravager charge revenge

[modern brook]

claps low on the prio nowadays

[strong forum]

For m+ I open with TC cuz it hits in a bigger radius

[stark sage]

nome also wants to live in the BFA glory days

[signal plover]

Is that like a lil tribute to bfa?

[strong forum]

Ravager - charge + avatar + SB - TC - SS - revenge

Smth like this

Along those lines

Maybe revenge before SS

[strong forum]

No it's better for aggro

[muted arch]

for ST (raid) i've been opening charge (SB mid charge)>DS>avatar>AA>rotation

does that seem right?

[strong forum]

That's alot of rage

Charge + avatar + Demo during charge

Into SS into IP into AA