that ive been running in my push keys
#protection
crystal iris
zealous goblet
i have no idea what it has to do with warrior gameplay, but he insists it is imperative
lusty tiger
Actually?
frosty mango
Every time I heal a warrior with low sb uptime and they are just falling over it never fails
Every time “???????? Heals?”
lusty grotto
lol
frosty mango
Imagine actually needing a healer
crystal iris
warr tank asking about heals is so cringe
I mean any tank really
"healer why couldnt you keep my up while 40 mobs bashed my skull in without shield block up?"
frosty mango
Monks are kinda sketchy sometimes if they pull huge it’s really hard to intelligently gauge stagger as a healer
Dks it’s just “do they have rp, yes? No heal”
crystal iris
if I see them red stagger with celestial on CD and they've cleared once or twice I usually start spam healing them lol
of bubble them on my monk
frosty mango
Monk stagger management is galaxy brain and if you’re healing one you gotta look at one of their 19 cooldowns
Then make an assumption if they are too dumb to press them
Least on warrior we can macro shield block to w and clear dungeons /s
lusty grotto
please dont do this lurkers
lusty grotto
goddamn it
frosty mango
I added the /s!
ionic fern
Now it's official.
crystal iris
#showtooltip Shield Block
/use Shield Block
/use Ignore Pain
/use Demolition Shout
/use Shield Slam
add in avatar too in case
keybind to w
violet ginkgo
you can't do that Demo shout and shield slam on gcd
crystal iris
it'l do one or the other whichever is up lol
frosty mango
you can't do that Demo shout and shield slam on gcd
That’s ok the people who would do this will be too busy being dead to realize
crystal iris
you can't do that Demo shout and shield slam on gcd
THATS your problem with it?
median tulip
just keep mashing it youll demo shout then SS on the next one
No. Macro terminates at the first on GCD ability AFAIK
zealous goblet
guys i know the rules say no nsfw
but i think you will make an exception
'
god i'm so smart
crystal iris
how can I unsee this
zealous goblet
please if you can make adjustments to be more useless, do it
i'll take my theorycrafting role now
crystal iris
gotta go full shockwave talents instead of spear
zealous goblet
i considered it, but having an aoe stun borders on the idea of being useful
crystal iris
lol no thunderclap
on an actual note, how much damage do you lose going with spear over roar?
lusty grotto
a lot
crystal iris
might be nice to have some niche utility with keeping in the hunters of nelth on fort week, same with the leapers in first area of nokuud
zealous goblet
doesn't your tier set synergize really well with bleeds?
lusty grotto
considering tier
tight sedge
#showtooltip Shield Block
/use Shield Block
/use Ignore Pain
/use Demolition Sho...
Hello yes please let me know where to get demolition shout! That sounds awesome. Would very much like that.
crystal iris
words?
urban portal
thunderous words
15% bleed damage at all times
that is just impactful as roar itself
tribal wharf
reading wow keystone rages where someone goes apeshit is the best lol
this ones a dh, using dh words
radiant mortar
if healing gets good again my warri will get parked again
crystal iris
if you use an ability during the greiftorch channel, does it cancel it and stop its damage?
lusty grotto
yes
crystal iris
but i cn still move right?
waxen frigate
Yes
long yarrow
waxen frigate
What
lusty grotto
wowhead?
zealous goblet
speaking of grieftorch
can you block and parry and shit while channeling/casting?
lusty grotto
no
zealous goblet
that's what i thought
it works like that in classic but wasn't sure if they changed it
lusty grotto
of course, 🫡 good resets
radiant mortar
beta is out load in guys
lusty coyote
@shut summit Hey boss, I have been using your youtube vids as guides to get into some 15+ prot tanking.
Any chance you remember what which WA that gives you the "Tank hit" warning ? that seems very handy
lusty grotto
do you have an example?
we can probably help out
sense doesnt usually answer right away
a clip or pic might help
echo egret
The BAM weak aura when you take an unmitigated hit ?
lusty grotto
i guess they will wait
dark barn
Earthen racial will give 10% plus armor in our gear. Is this strong? Feels like a lot in a plate class
plush tendon
Earthen racial will give 10% plus armor in our gear. Is this strong? Feels like ...
potentially good for personally dps, but hard to beat current stoneform
plush tendon
Dwarf or Nelf
but Dwarf is actually busted and honestly needs to be looked at for changes (along with nelf)
violet ginkgo
I just want they give more racial to original orc
even the maghar got more racial passive
south zealot
cant really do that bc orc is strong in pvp
lusty grotto
not anymore
south zealot
once again pvp and pve having conflicting shit
yeah i think basically everyone is nelf
but like
lusty grotto
the stun duration shit got nerfed a big while back but yeah youre kind of right
lusty grotto
yea
plush tendon
the damage part of their racial being tied to the active is mid
lusty grotto
alliance wins the racial game since... idk panda maybe
plush tendon
and its not strong enough to compete with human
south zealot
pandaren is an impressively shit race
plush tendon
alliance wins the racial game since... idk panda maybe
WoD was the rework where they gave every race a DPS portion
south zealot
the only kind of useful thing they have is fall damage reduction
which actually was used in mdi(?) i think lol
lusty grotto
yeah but pre-nerf EMFH existed before that
id say the only time horde racials were good was in vanilla/tbc
cause EMFH showed up in cata, wrath right?
or was it cata i cant remember
south zealot
how do the earthen fuckers work in rlp first area
sometimes they hit insanely hard and other times they do literally nothing
can u parry their hit
plush tendon
id say the only time horde racials were good was in vanilla/tbc
they were the stronger racials up till WoD
south zealot
vdh prot warrior is turbo dead
i refuse to interact with dh discord ive heard its a degenerate cesspool
lusty grotto
we dont feel it lol
vdh hurty
on those
i dont think its parryable but i could be wrong
south zealot
maybe i just took i tfrom behind
south zealot
slam isnt
hm mustve gotten hit from behind then
it did like 1m yesterday and basically 0 today
frosty mango
sometimes they hit insanely hard and other times they do literally nothing
They have a fucky hit box
frosty mango
They will end up “behind” your hitbox and start dunking on you
I’m always backing up constantly in that shitty key
lusty grotto
ohhh you meant those
south zealot
yeah my bad
frosty mango
I wish there was a weakaura that alerted you when you take a string of unblocked melees from the same mob
lusty grotto
i mean it'd be simple to do
but there's no purpose to it
you took the hit, its too late
frosty mango
If you take a few raw melees from the same mob unmitigated wouldn’t that be a pretty good indicator they are behind you
lusty grotto
no
frosty mango
If you think they see that and recognize it’s happening lol
lusty grotto
i just think its worse to track something you can visually see on your screen
south zealot
if u need a weakaura to realize why youre dying for something that obvious
you just arent paying attgention at all
frosty mango
you just arent paying attgention at all
Yes precisely
frosty mango
We need weakauras to pay attention for us
lusty grotto
too many weakauras is super grief
this
frosty mango
this
I need a weakaura to prevent me from releasing when I die every wipe, I am the target audience
I need bumpers
lusty grotto
lmao
i mean thats learned behavior, so thats fine
i just have this
also y es i have to update nome's
strong forum
have u ever seen blasons ui
Wdym you don't like 3 or 4 different combat res trackers, 3 or 4 different AM trackers and 4 combat timers?
lusty grotto
smh my head
lusty grotto
lmao
the most common one i see is having default omnicd trackign EVERYTHING
as if you needed to know every single cd of your party members
lusty grotto
yea
low oracle
trueeeeeeeeee; 4k ultrawide for more useless weakauras is the only way
lusty coyote
do you have an example?
Sure one sec
lusty coyote
a clip or pic might help
The WA show a bunch of helpful stuff, but in that clip its Arcing Strike its triggering off i belive.
lusty grotto
kinda looks like causese
shut summit
Just custom ones I've made
lusty grotto
there you go
i have one for blazing slash
since s2
i should add more stuff
was thinking about adding chomp timer to it the other day but im too lazy
low oracle
dorkis is okay https://wago.io/8lhZIN_vh most tank busters are covered you can just change the sound to display something text if you want
lusty coyote
dorkis is okay https://wago.io/8lhZIN_vh most tank busters are covered you can j...
pog thanks
next yacht
huge?
toxic pewter
wonder if it will work with spell recflect
it it doesnt its still cool I guess but would be even more fun
rigid hull
whats the haste/crit food buff called
low oracle
intervene is bait
granite pond
these seem...really bad?
granite pond
oh shit, sorry
jagged pier
this is still for current prot
kind urchin
A 4k screen
Ultrawide. Even more shit.
lusty grotto
intervene change is good
more useful, might be able to SR again
but yeah thats #1230008411333066913
are you gonna talk with tettles @strong forum ?
or is archim/critcake?
strong forum
que
strong forum
ahah
lusty grotto
lol
strong forum
based on this reaction i guess you got your answer
lusty grotto
yeah lmao
toxic pewter
prot warr prob too hated by the community no one want to hear about us
lusty grotto
nah
jagged pier
lmao why talk to nome dratnos knows everything about every tank
lusty grotto
warrior is a large pop class
jagged pier
has never been wrong about any spec ever
toxic pewter
jagged pier
lusty grotto
well to be fair
dratty is actually playing prot war now
in live
or has been, rather
so hes not like completely oblivious
strong forum
yeah hes gotten better
alot better
he actually understands prot alot more than majority of "tank" players
and can articulate well what point hes trying to make
when others choose their words VERY poorly
jagged pier
they will never recover from 'warrior is bad against sustained physical damage'
or whatever they wrote in SLs
south zealot
lmao why talk to nome dratnos knows everything about every tank
whats the lore
south zealot
they will never recover from 'warrior is bad against sustained physical damage'
oh
lol
jagged pier
it was like their season 3 tier list or somthing
like every point they made about warrior was just wrong
lusty grotto
well he changed his mind when dorki and max have been "prot warriors are the superior physical damage mitigation tank"
i think
south zealot
everyone was wrong about warrior in s3 shadowlands
vivid orchid
this should be obvious to anyone who actually looks at prot for more than a few dismissive seconds
lusty grotto
they havent had bad takes lately honestly
strong forum
cool
lusty grotto
on the whole expansion at least
ive been watching them and listening to their podcast
they have good takes this exp
rose pier
so sad war prot cant equip a 2 handed weapon and a shield...where is the titan grip ?!
strong forum
ive come to like the idea yeah.
crystal iris
third boss Nokuud, if you dont keep the bosses together, will the lady shoot more DPS? or is it just me
jagged pier
passive for fury
strong forum
third boss Nokuud, if you dont keep the bosses together, will the lady shoot mor...
everyone will die
if you do that
lusty grotto
thats the fight yes
lusty grotto
they get buffed
toxic pewter
prob has to do with loot tables, they need certain specs to fill up loot tables, if they remove us from 1h str weapons would be underpopulated in that bracket
lusty grotto
youre not wrong apb
vivid orchid
its already grossly underpopulated
crystal iris
well because after the leap theres a brutalize so I used to stay back and eat the tank buster, then bring them together
lusty grotto
and chamberloin isnt wrong either
toxic pewter
would just leave frost dk and prot pala
crystal iris
so I should just immedatly charge after the one that leaps away to group them before the trank buster?
vivid orchid
90% of any 1h str items go to the vendor whenever they drop
strong forum
so I should just immedatly charge after the one that leaps away to group them be...
keep them as long as close to gether as possible
south zealot
bring then together so you dont take a buffed brutalize
plush path
hi
strong forum
and your group doesnt take the buffed shoots
plush path
when do u guys recommend to use shield block
strong forum
always
lusty grotto
all the time
strong forum
whenever you need to block a spell to survive
plush path
is it a 50% chance to get 0 dmg from spell or to halve it?
lusty grotto
blockable/reflectable sheet
it works just like block
theres no chance involved if shield block is up along side it
strong forum
how much dmg you block is based on your shield ilvl
lusty grotto
☝️
plush path
oh
and does spell block halve the dmg coming from spells?
or is it a 100% block against it
plush path
type shi
vivid orchid
spell block works the same as normal blocks, except that there is no hard cap to its block value
lusty grotto
it works just like block
☝️
maybe if he trusted an 11 year old site over discord, he could see the results
but apparently warcraftlogs is "sus"
jagged pier
Hes just a new yogi man its alright just let him chat
lusty grotto
plush path
if i want to keep up sb alwys can i macro sb onto ss?
to make it easier to awlays have it on
toxic pewter
O_O
lusty grotto
i cant think of any reason why, but it doesnt really hurt i guess?
i would say work on shield block uptime first and foremost
because thats by far our most important buff
plush path
its just that i didnt really learn how to focus on mechanics + ip + sb at the same time
so it would help i think
lusty grotto
ip doesnt matter
SB does
scratch IP from that list
keeping SB up
is again
BY FAR
THE MOST
IMPORTANT
thing
block everything else until you get that
and scratch IP off those lists forever
median tulip
my index finger just moves between ERF & G all by itself
plush path
i think ill put it on tc as well
median tulip
proud silo
my entire guild jokes about my poor keyboard because its loud enough for my mic to pick up and im constantly pressing things even while on cd and gcd. i know my sb and ss buttons in particular gotta be suffering lmfao
lusty grotto
have you tried noise suppression
proud silo
yeah it works but they're attatched to the keyboard noises now and get upset if i turn it on
proud silo
its how they know im doin my job LMAO
lusty grotto
lol
prisma crane
is it just me or does our tier bonuses just seem meh?
vivid orchid
not just you
lusty grotto
all classes tier bonuses look meh
prisma crane
the new TWW ones*
prisma crane
oh fair, ty
frosty mango
block everything else until you get that
Something that helped me a lot was a massive loud weakaura that went nuts when it fell off
Nothing Pavlovs you into hitting shield block like screeching children on repeat
kind urchin
Every person I've coached probably hears me in the back of their mind saying "shield block" or "press shield block".
vocal flame
Uh oh
vocal flame
I miss when tanking was about tanking and not damage output. It’s pretty hybrid now.
south zealot
It was about sunders and holding aggro
souydns boring as fuck
vocal flame
Nah it was great. And yes damage counted but tanks were not so preoccupied with it and nowhere near dps damage
strong forum
thats where youre wrong
tanks literally played fury
to do more dmg in vanilla
to hold aggro vs dps
who actually pressed buttons
leaden shard
Nah it was great. And yes damage counted but tanks were not so preoccupied with ...
furyprot did more damage than half the dps specs in vanilla
crystal iris
so what are they nerfing? like augury and anvil ?
i mean all of them, but what counts
strong forum
not in dragonflight
south zealot
cantrip items that were made for dps
strong forum
but yes
crystal iris
ah kk
strong forum
in 11.0 trinkets like tat would be nerfed
for tanks and healers
which doesnt change anything
on what we use
vocal flame
furyprot did more damage than half the dps specs in vanilla
And they died lol
strong forum
cuz tank trinkts are always garbage
strong forum
And they died lol
they did not
tanking in classic was
"am i getting spam healed enough"
tanks didnt have any agency or defensives
the only thing that was needed to be a tank was defense capped
and spam healed out the ass
nothing else
pallid quiver
And the damage + threat modifiers to keep being swung at :L
strong forum
well yeah
vocal flame
We will agree to disagree. I installed wow day 1 and raided a ton never played fury prot and it was a blast. Actually raided too much.
It’s still fun tho but not as much as it was. Was better when it was the only viable tank lol
pallid quiver
That's a time we should never go back to
strong forum
it was fun cuz it was new
pallid quiver
That's a dogshit game design imo to have classes that can "tank", but only have one real tank
strong forum
not because it was good
pallid quiver
It was also very casual friendly
as compared to earlier mmos
like ultima online and what-not
south zealot
other mmoskill u irl for dying
pallid quiver
Ultima Online ios still up, iirc, but you just actually can't play the game without getting mega shit on without already being part of a clique from what I've heard
vocal flame
It was based off EverQuest cause Jeff played it so much
Which I played as well and never winter nights lol
Vanilla was casual friendly? You cray
light nova
threat is just not a fun thing to think about when tanking, as someone who doesnt main tank. Threat was pretty much your only thought in classic. The way tanking is now where as you climb in content your main focuses are damage+survivability is really good imo esp compared to classic
pallid quiver
Vanilla was casual friendly? You cray
brother you don't even lose exp for dying
vocal flame
Threat is almost guaranteed now. You don’t even have to work hard at it.
tribal wharf
typical paladin fantasy
light nova
yes im saying thats a good change
vocal flame
brother you don't even lose exp for dying
Oh that part yeah haha
tribal wharf
that dude is paladin, cant convince otherwise
zealous goblet
tanks didnt have any agency or defensives
excuse me you had a 30 min shield wall and a shield block with 40% uptime
wholesome nightbane prog phase 1 tbc
junior pebble
That's a good change if they finally make tank trinkets good enough to run over even nerfed DPS trinkets
south zealot
dusky canopy
Honestly don’t like the change
dusky canopy
Seems like they’re trying to avoid the situation like dps using rageheart for high keys but the thing is people didn’t use it for the dps it did they used it to live
So they’ll still do the same and all they did was make it more annoying lol
chilly brook
So they’ll still do the same and all they did was make it more annoying lol
Just like we’ll likely still use DPS trinkets because tank trinkets are dog water
We can already see them for next tier
quaint wind
After the change to our sorta cheat death proc is it worth actually running now? Over the 2% haste 10% stamina talent?
chilly brook
Realistically probably not
I think there might be a like “literally never die and can’t fuck it up” build
But it’s not as good
quaint wind
Well the same could be said about the cheat death trinket
lusty grotto
After the change to our sorta cheat death proc is it worth actually running now?...
theres a build in pins
but no you dont replace alacrity
quaint wind
Talking M+ at 16+ keys
chilly brook
Well the same could be said about the cheat death trinket
You are correct the same could be said about the cheat death trinket, you don’t need it
Use your CDs better
lusty grotto
its not needed
but if you feel you need it the pins have a build
id say swap indom for it
south zealot
After the change to our sorta cheat death proc is it worth actually running now?...
you would drop shield charge for it
lusty grotto
with a standard build
south zealot
you wouldnt drop enduring alactrity
lusty grotto
yeah enduring alacrity is a set in stone talent
strong forum
Bolstering is a good week for a cheat death trinket
lusty grotto
its hard locked
south zealot
id say swap indom for it
do not do that either
quaint wind
Ohhh hmmm shield charge is pretty high dmg though and rage gen
south zealot
yeah but thats the only thing u can drop for bsv
strong forum
Shield charge the least dmg
Of all the talents you can drop for bsv
You "only" lose 2% dmg
oblique garnet
quaint wind
Ok Ty for advice
pallid quiver
I can see the attempt for reasoning that they gave.
It's just that their actions have proven that just hasn't really been the case
strong forum
But also, playing that build requires alot of haste
pallid quiver
And I don't have any faith in them changing that
crystal iris
I thought blizzard was nerfing tank trinkets because we did too much damage. But they building tier sets around damage?
strong forum
Not the point duru
chilly brook
I can see the attempt for reasoning that they gave.
It's just that their action...
Don’t worry the next blue post they’re going to make will be saying that they’re going to make tank offensive cooldowns share a CD with defensives so that you have to make a “choice”
strong forum
If they don't include dmg bonuses itno tiersets
Wtf is the point
But again, not the point they are eluding to
They just want tanks do actually play tank trinkets
chilly brook
Damage bonuses have been in like every tank tier set ever
strong forum
And not signet+anvil
pallid quiver
Dropping ITF to HR is a 12% dmg loss
Something something tank parses screeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
chilly brook
They just want tanks do actually play tank trinkets
So they should make good tank trinkets then
strong forum
There are smart choices
chilly brook
They’ve shown they can
oblique garnet
They just want tanks do actually play tank trinkets
This will never happen because they are overkill 99.9999% of the content
strong forum
This will never happen because they are overkill 99.9999% of the content
Tell that to blizzard
oblique garnet
Im just a memer who would listen to me 8)
strong forum
"we keep creating armor trinkets because they're fun and alot of people like them"
pallid quiver
They need more things like All-Totem and its like if they want tanks to play tank trinks
pallid quiver
I mean
i'd take an armor trinket right now if it gave a shit ton of armor, but
strong forum
All-totem and dreadplate are the perfect example of a tank trinket done right
pallid quiver
we might be cheatin' on that regard
strong forum
(atleast for m+)
crystal iris
I mean
strong forum
Issue is those 2 aren't good in raid
crystal iris
I would enjoy equipping tank trinkets more if I didn’t feel bad about leaving DPS on the table
strong forum
Cuz they're built around frequent dmg intake
Correct duru, hence why I said
What I said
oblique garnet
it doesnt differ alot on mythic ngl
vivid orchid
a lot of the content is not very punishing
defensively all tanks base kits are strong for most things
oblique garnet
almost like it comes with the role
vivid orchid
logically the best conclusion to make is find something productive to do since you've already accomplished the primary goal of the role
oblique garnet
they are just afraid of making bosses that are actually hard for tanks because that exposes the role that your raid can survive by putting in bots who cant actually play their class
crystal iris
Idk I find it way easier to die in M+
lusty grotto
they wanted to make tank easier
chilly brook
I’ve offered to tank a couple times and been turned down cuz they want me to stay DPS
lusty grotto
except they put in illuminated sigils for some reason
crystal iris
lol
crystal iris
I agree making tanking easier is a good thing
lusty grotto
its also the fact thay they absolutely fucking loaded a tank with cc
further extending complexity
chilly brook
Idk I find it way easier to die in M+
Because m+ is the only content you’re legit in danger in as a tank
lusty grotto
like they havent made up their mind
crystal iris
I’d rather have more energy available to take in what’s going on around me
lusty grotto
and then for even more of a kick in the face
they made the other role
significantly more frustrating to play
HEALERS
crystal iris
I enjoy healing
vivid orchid
i dont know of a single healer player that isn't burning out
crystal iris
It’s a hard season
crystal iris
Last season was easy
pallid quiver
they are just afraid of making bosses that are actually hard for tanks because t...
this pains me, because there's a non-zero amount of actually decent players who deserve better tanks out there
lusty grotto
Last season was easy
no
pallid quiver
Casual healers are stonks, tho, from what I've seen
oblique garnet
this pains me, because there's a non-zero amount of actually decent players who ...
What i meant was that current raid designs allow tanks to not play properly and not be punished for it, and if they were to actually design hard encounters for tanks that would expose majority of the tank players as incompetent
Its bit rude but its the truth
lusty grotto
yeh late is correct
oblique garnet
And also tank in general is the role thats the least played among all it would also reduce those players
pallid quiver
Yeah, that's what I heard and meant
It lets a lot of really bad players just sit in those roles
Since there isn't any punishment allowed for raid tanks other than "didn't taunt properly"
and then Mythic difficulty adds the extremely complex issues of "consider pressing a defensive CD"
It's also skewed people's idea of how hard it is to tank as a result, especially since some people still die on these encounters from lack of play
i wouldn't even say bad play because that implies that they've pressed more than 5 buttons a minute
Raid log tanks are usually among the single worst players I ever have to deal with; bonus points if that have a mega ego over it, too
oblique garnet
I mean ive seen top5 tanks make alot of 
mistakes that should never happen
Like paladin being allergic to cons
tribal wharf
shrewd vapor
What is the "front ratio"?
Is it a full 180°? More or less?
tribal wharf
my thought on this is that yes, but whatever threat it generates should be for the same amount
i don't mind if i lose dmg, my job is to live not finish fight
fast knot
It can come to an issue though if your offtank is a turtle and you doing more DPS is affecting your survivability
tribal wharf
the thing about the tank trinkets that heal is they are good but its not a regen or bubble effect and if it is a bubble effect its typically wayyyy too small of a bubble terms of how much it takes or how long it akes to time it out
tribal wharf
so its like you got some trinket you drop to 30% hp and you heal for a million
well, you could get other procs or heals in that time that you are at 65% 80% and that 1 million hp heal is now useless
did like, 100k
the blue crystal trinkets from lair comes to mind here
south zealot
I mean ive seen top5 tanks make alot of <:dentge:1153304859882295366> mistakes t...
and buying fyrakks with first bullion
lusty grotto
What was hard about it
healing
has been hard
all expansion
frustrating
we were talking about healing
tribal wharf
people are not happy about tank trinket changes it appears
i swear, some of the trinkets are like, 1980's cartoon villian boss uses some vial to freeze a lake or some dumb shit
pallid quiver
YEAH, THAT FORMER ONE IS COOKING. PUT VENGEANCE BACK IN
I want to stand in every bad mechanic
tribal wharf
"Didn't they already try this tank and healer trinket nerf in a previous expansion, then get rid of it? Why are we going backwards?
And their reasoning behind why is so disingenuous, too.
"too much of a tank's damage was coming from external effects", but I don't know anyone who actually cares about that. This change feels like it's only there so tanks/healers will actually take tank/healing trinkets since "If all trinkets are bad, might as well take this one since I won't be competing with DPS for it."
It make giving your tanks and healers DPS trinkets objectively the wrong choice since the trinkets are just worse on them then they are on your DPS. it's a ham-fisted way to make somebody take the bad trinkets they keep making instead of just making tank/healing trinkets not terrible."
hes not wrong about the last line
chilly brook
i don't mind if i lose dmg, my job is to live not finish fight
everyone's job is to deal damage
your job is to generate threat and take hits
you generate threat by dealing damage
tribal wharf
the objective is first to survive
chilly brook
you live by pressing the buttons available to you
tribal wharf
you cant win if you die, typically
chilly brook
the objective is first to survive
no the objective is to hold the boss
doesn't matter if you live if you don't facilitate the ability of your damage to deal damage
lusty grotto
"Didn't they already try this tank and healer trinket nerf in a previous expansi...
this is actually a goated reply
the person that posted that is 100% correct
tribal wharf
the main reason i use dps trinkets besides dps number go up is more threat generally
lusty grotto
yes
pallid quiver
no the objective is to hold the boss
This; holding the boss is the single most important thing. You living is only secondary since b rezzes exist, especially in raid
It's perfectly acceptable to have a tank just die and pick him back up if it works
lusty grotto
2 things to note for dps trinkets: more threat and doing damage is fun
chilly brook
This; holding the boss is the single most important thing. You living is only se...
it's an irrelevant point anyways because it's not mutually exclusive, every tank can do damage while being perfectly safe and not in danger of dying
violet flume
tbh i kinda prefer the OP trinkets that do good damage and doubles as survival, it's more along the theme of tanking to have a defensive bonus and doing more damage is always fun. Trinkets like fyrak'S heart and dreadplates
just wish blizz was better at creating those
chilly brook
if you're not doing damage you're just bad full stop
lusty grotto
tbh i kinda prefer the OP trinkets that do good damage and doubles as survival, ...
i think we all feel the same way
pallid quiver
Yeah, in the current state of things, design is so tight that all things are tied together
Holding the boss means you do damage means you don't die
chilly brook
and the only reason people would be in favor of this change is because they want to perpetuate the outdated idea that they hide behind to justify not wanting to improve
violet flume
like i tried one world tanking trinket it does 0.3% damage, the one that give sa 1mil shield and explodes for damage.. it never explodes lmao
pallid quiver
I've just played a non-zero amount of other tank-heal-DPS mmos in my lifetime that do not have as streamlined of a design
chilly brook
most tanks optimal damage rotation is also how they optimally stay alive
lusty grotto
then this change will feel awful
violet flume
yep
pallid quiver
And there, it's still generally the same priority
violet flume
and trinket design often sucks i feel for tanking
lusty grotto
yup
violet flume
i dont think ive put a defensive trinket on unironically since wrath
crystal iris
I get pissed when the tank dies in my key like maybe 12% left on last boss and tank gets one shot and bricks the key then I notice them running 2 DPS trinkets
chilly brook
i dont think ive put a defensive trinket on unironically since wrath
I mean I have but only when they actually are worth a damn
tribal wharf
"if you eat the vegetables enough times it will start to taste good and you will ask for vegetables"
chilly brook
like Dreadplate
crystal iris
I get pissed when the healer can’t heal third boss in HOI and I see then running a tome…
tribal wharf
i feel like is the end goal
violet flume
yea dreadplate is sex
crystal iris
Y’a i like the DPS and tank ones
south zealot
I get pissed when the tank dies in my key like maybe 12% left on last boss and t...
i get pissed when i see 99.9% of players padding every chance they get
its the way of life
fast knot
Or dps that forget defensives exist
violet flume
you dont get one shot cause you have 2 dps trinkets
tribal wharf
perosnally i like the heart of thunder one even if its outlier, probably would have liked the dps one fron nokhud summons a centaur, the lair one that was NOT the blue crystal, that one was really really strong
pallid quiver
i dont think ive put a defensive trinket on unironically since wrath
There was like some cooldown reduction one that Malkorok dropped in SoO. I think it reduced Shield Wall CD, maybe? If so, I definitely picked it up so I could stand in more mega bad shit like Garrosh cleaves more often
chilly brook
Dawntrail comes out in a couple weeks, maybe I'll just save my tanking urges for FFXIV where they actually make tanks do damage
violet flume
ok mop vengeance is cheating haha
i did not tank in mop/early wod now that i think o it
tribal wharf
i been trying to get into turok 1 if you want me to be completely honest, i dunno how long thats gunna last
violet flume
got forced into boomkin feelsbadman
zealous goblet
the giga brain move is removing all trinkets and adding 2 more rings so we can roleplay a bunch of swag gangsters
tribal wharf
on pc not on n64
crystal iris
you dont get one shot cause you have 2 dps trinkets
You can. Run out of defenséives or maybe you had a cheat trinket in your bag
tribal wharf
beat lvl 1, on lvl 2/3
chilly brook
the giga brain move is removing all trinkets and adding 2 more rings so we can r...
on one hand I wouldn't even mind, it would make them actually have to balance classes
zealous goblet
memes aside i'll be honest this discussion doesn't seem terribly fruitful. a lot of what ifs and stuff. all we can do is wait and see, right?
chilly brook
is there anything that could be discussed that would be fruitful?
vivid orchid
my history of wait and see never really pays off
violet flume
i do admit on my mistweaver i found it a bit dumb one trinket did like 10% of my damage so i guess im semi fine about it
pallid quiver
Dawntrail comes out in a couple weeks, maybe I'll just save my tanking urges for...
Meanwhile, me who stopped messing with it because they removed DPS stances for tanks going from Stormblood past:
chilly brook
also not a whole lot of what ifs
zealous goblet
is there anything that could be discussed that would be fruitful?
trade chat politics
violet flume
and it wasnt even an OP dps trinket
pallid quiver
memes aside i'll be honest this discussion doesn't seem terribly fruitful. a lot...
It's important to at least attempt to give feedback so the devs know where we stand. If there is potential for the game to change in a way that would be good and healthy, it would start there
chilly brook
Meanwhile, me who stopped messing with it because they removed DPS stances for t...
i uhhhh I have a problem
zealous goblet
and nah what i mean by what ifs is people are discussing about these one off instances of people dying because they had a dps trinket, or how defensives aren't being used by dps or whatever
chilly brook
trying to get caught up with the story, never played endgame or been there for a new expansion launch
zealous goblet
steer it back to like, this is how i feel about x, rather than i experienced x so y is bad
pallid quiver
I actually stopped mega playing it because the GCD feels bad and I don't like playing classes in FF14
Scatter, you're too smart for these lands
flee, before the brainrot kicks in
zealous goblet
i'm a prot warrior main it's already there
chilly brook
~~I actually stopped mega playing it because the GCD feels bad and I don't like ...
Depends on the class I suppose
Monk is fairly fast
pallid quiver
The base GCD is still slow; they try to compensate by throwing in more oGCD abilities, at least last I played
And then there was tons of animation lock that you actively had to play around
It felt very stick in the ass to play
lusty grotto
i uhhhh I have a problem
ayo
pallid quiver
I know the main offender I deal with often was clipped by a bit, that being Dragoon, but some of the animation jank still existed on Paladin, which was the main class I played, when I came back to try
Your character constantly snapping to face the enemy you're swinging at also felt bad to me due to feeling artificial and all
chilly brook
Monk is only slightly slower than WoW GCD iirc
pallid quiver
It was a lot of minor things that just boiled to me feeling awkward
pallid quiver
Monk is only slightly slower than WoW GCD iirc
I think so, yeah, but the issues above made it feel so much worse
pallid quiver
Ninja also has the issue (at least had, zero idea if it still is) of having a quick enough GCD and so many oGCDs to hit that, with networking, it was literally impossible to not clip your rotation
lusty grotto
master of all savages this exp
BLM/SAM/WAR/WHM enjoyer
and all jobs max level 🙂
anyway im excited for dawntrail
chilly brook
I did SAM up to Shadowbringers, good fun
tribal wharf
i uhhhh I have a problem
i made it to lvl 14 in that game and then i lost interest and quit
lusty grotto
and of course Elden Ring
pallid quiver
I also don't like their encounter design as much
lusty grotto
i love their encounter design
tribal wharf
that must be why its ff14
pallid quiver
Game looks real pretty, though
chilly brook
savage raids are fucking great
I will find out for myself soon enough
lusty grotto
some fights are kinda dumb but thats about it
chilly brook
I plan on getting as many jobs to max before Dawntrail as I can
which will likely not be many
pallid quiver
It's definitely great how they have a lot of universal markers you can always tell, though
lusty grotto
like there was one fight that made me swap from blm to sam just cause i had to bet on mechanic placement just so i could parse
pallid quiver
but it also can make some things nigh-guaranteed "what the fuck am i supposed to do" if they're non-standard mechs, like some from Exdeath's fight iirc with almaghest, was it?
lusty grotto
but it was just the one i guess
chilly brook
It's definitely great how they have a lot of universal markers you can always te...
WoW could learn a lot from encounter telegraphs
pallid quiver
I like the idea in how they kinda have similar in WoW, but it's just not being done right
lusty grotto
wayyyy more complex
like 20 billion times more complex than even wow's
but thats just savage
and ultimate
and one shots work in ffxiv
only because raid size is 8 man
chilly brook
mechanics are more complex
I don't have a horse in the race but aren't they cleared way faster than Mythic is?
lusty grotto
and theres telegraphs
pallid quiver
Grand Cross, that's the one I was thinking of
lusty grotto
I don't have a horse in the race but aren't they cleared way faster than Mythic ...
no
not this expansion's
not even close
but im comparing boss to boss
cause there's no 8/9 boss raids in there except for alliance raids
every race in DF has been faster than both ultimates in endwalker
pallid quiver
I don't have a horse in the race but aren't they cleared way faster than Mythic ...
There's also no trash or clearing to deal with, usually
And their progression is a bit different
It's hard to directly compare as a result, but Ultimates in FF14 are usually harder
They're a lot more punishing on average if you don't execute things exactly like they want you to
lusty grotto
the ultimates this expansion were dumb as fuck hard
chilly brook
I mean ultimates are just a singular encounter though no?
lusty grotto
hell even scripe has said so
pallid quiver
I mean ultimates are just a singular encounter though no?
They're also often longer than the longer bosses at all in WoW, iirc,
And just always punishing
lusty grotto
multiphase encounters yea
chilly brook
I suppose I was thinking more savage vs mythic
lusty grotto
savage are 4 bosses
chilly brook
They're also often longer than the longer bosses at all in WoW, iirc,
ye I'm aware of that
only boss in recent memory that was FF length was Sylvanas
chilly brook
so yeah i guess savage might be faster
last savage was a 2 day clear or something
from race start
pallid quiver
Savages generally go pretty quick, but also have mechanics that can take a non-zero amount of paragraphs to describe
but those mechs are about it
chilly brook
sorry 1 day
pallid quiver
Fights in FF14 are, from what I've seen, extremely telegraphed. You can point to the exact second in a timeline that a boss will do something
lusty grotto
36 hours
pallid quiver
And so you can actually straight up just plot defensives and the like on a graph
lusty grotto
btw
it took 36 hours
also
wow has split runs
which xiv doesnt
also no trash
also 4 bosses only
so yes
it makes total sense that they would be done faster
pallid quiver
The no trash kinda makes me sad, because it made a lot of things feel lifeless, but it also more fits the feel of the game and how it presents
lusty grotto
but they are more difficult than mythic raiding
pallid quiver
It's also very convenient for reclears
crystal iris
@lusty grotto whats the healthpot / rock lock addon?
lusty grotto
the only thing that wow has that is more difficult than xiv is fucking weakaura bosses
just because that setup is garbage
lusty grotto
<@131897531251556352> whats the healthpot / rock lock addon?
auto potion
i would agree it can make the raid feel lifeless, moreso if you are a cutscene skipper
err a story skipper should be the word
cause you skip cutscenes anyway after you start progging
the story makes it not lifeless
talking specifically about a raid tier's story
pallid quiver
It makes the world feel too hero epic-y and not lived in as a whole to me, but that's the feeling Final Fantasy as a whole goes for, so
lusty grotto
so yeah it feels that way if you just skip skip skip so you dont know what the fuck is going on and there's a big thing up there that needs to be killed
pallid quiver
You can tell that's what it aims for from the impact people have in the story
lusty grotto
yeah i mean theres people that actually like the hero epic-y thing
pallid quiver
Yeah, more of a taste thing
lusty grotto
wow players have been complaining about not being recognized by NPCs for years
pallid quiver
I just want more grunt NPCs we worked with coming back and recognizing us
Like Nazgrim types of deals
I'm just an adventurer, boss
lusty grotto
yeah i mean thats something that xiv does well
they recognize you
on this expansion especially since it was tying all the knots for the whole hydaelyn/zodiark arc
i really enjoyed the story
its my favorite final fantasy story, it beats all of the SPs for sure
even 6 which was my favorite single player one
its just kind of a shame that the ARR part is so fucking dumb slow
pallid quiver
it's not better than 1's story, fuck you, i'm a genius story teller ;-;
lusty grotto
but they did make changes to it to speed it up this exp
pallid quiver
Oh, yeah, ARR is terrible pacing wise
lusty grotto
for new players
pallid quiver
but it was necessary to establish the entire context of everything
tribal wharf
"The trinket nerf for tanks and heals makes me genuinely want to perma role dps from a healer main. Contributing large dps as a healer is fun especially when you make a difference to priority mobs. fking hell"
more comments from dratnos vid
lusty grotto
but it was necessary to establish the entire context of everything
idk about that, i kinda understand - what i think it was Ghash that said it - that it just needs a rewrite so its more up to par with the other expansions
pallid quiver
I mean ARR existing at all, more so
It entirely exists to set up the entire world and context; they were definitely still at the spitball at the wall page and see what sticks
It 100% could be improved now that they have a clear plan and vision
As compared to "We can't have FF11 2 in this day and age and have it go well"
lusty grotto
actually what ghash said, and i think some streamers, is that if something is bad at the start, it kinda ruins the whole engagement
pallid quiver
Non-zero amount of people I know refused to play FF14 because the start was so bad, so yeah, that's proof right there
lusty grotto
like you shouldnt be forced to go through bad pacing and often times bad writing just to get to the good part
just needs a rewrite, they did a good thing by making it way faster now though
tribal wharf
i tried to start playing ff14 as a dark mage lalafel male, and it DID NOT go over well i found in any regard
tribal wharf
i made short cuz gunna make typical black mage blue robe strawhood, staff, castin big fireball n shit i dunno lightning
lusty grotto
but i played like that on release so
yeah theres a sweet set thats like that
3 actually
tribal wharf
but i made him really really short, and i couldnt easily kill stuff, and i just wasnt feeling it by time u get to it puts u in combat on a cliff and u have to chain combat sequence
its like a tutorial
lusty grotto
mines minimum height as well
tribal wharf
i figured that was the only way i could ever blend in in that game
is i would be a literal 8 bit pixel dark mage
castin shit
im a wizard
lusty grotto
ye
tribal wharf
i cant do tradition high fanatasy ultra normative
kind urchin
I played Paladin, warrior, dark knight and white mage. The white mage threw people off because they were so used to me always tanking.
lusty grotto
lol
proud silo
anyone have a good pug-friendly brackenhide route? ive somehow managed to neglect that dungeon for like two weeks and i need the belt from it tbh
pallid quiver
hold w, mostly
Rotsigners can be sketch, so avoid them if you can
But if you're not doing mega high keys, you can still pull them and be fine as long as totem gets punched
proud silo
gotcha, ive had a lot of trouble with the rotsingers before + a lot of people dying in the first area so wasn't sure if there was a better way to go about things 👍
pallid quiver
First area mobs generally need some stops on them or people die, and it's an area that generally is pretty encouraged to pull decently big, so
Like people will just stand there with no defensives looking at a fixate mob and just choose death
instead of stunning or something
proud silo
lmfao yeah true
rigid yew
First area is really good for big pulls cause the mobs have very little abilities.
You've got only 1 mandatory kick from the pack leader or w/e that's the AOE fear but it's like a 30sec CD.
The caster guy has a big 30sec CD cast but if you miss it's not always a wipe. It usually can just nuke down a member.
The fixate guys cast frequently but can be stopped by any stop ultility. But even if a few are missed you can kite them. It's annoying and lowers dps but should be avoidable.
Other than that it''s just having melee not stand within the small spinning circles they do and getting nuked down.
I pull 2 groups together for every pull there.
I still go right side after 1st boss. Rotsinger is really the only threat here. Pull as much as you can without getting 2 of them. Kill the totem it spawns, a few kicks here and there. No bad. Biggest issue is the giant trees you can't really skip that keep spawning 0 count little trees.
I like to pull the mini-boss on the bridge but I know people hate that. On medium key levels he doesn't one shot but can have everyone just be near melee range and his rot breath is easy to dodge. That's basically his only move. So all of his damage can be easily avoided. He gives very good count.
Biggest advice I can give for this dungeon is after 1st boss, go as fast and direct as possible to get to the last boss. Missing count is very easy to make up and its also easy to go over count wasting a ton of precious time.
south zealot
if u dont have a priest pull more in the first area obviously
and drop some of the last area
dont play any rotsingers
ionic fern
How do you get cages then without a priest. 👀
south zealot
u dont so need to pull more in the first area
ionic fern
My randoms mustev sucked then.
They always aggrod when trying to open cages where the packs are left.
proud silo
gotcha, ran a fairly similar route and we would have timed but totems got off on the last boss and we wiped 😔 ty for the tips tho big appreciate
echo egret
First area is really good for big pulls cause the mobs have very little abilitie...
I would argue that at 13+ fortified, the mystics and their Earth Bolt will nuke down ppl fast if left unkicked.
rigid yew
Probably, yeah. Although if your group is just letting them spam cast to the point of wiping out people then you probably are going to have trouble in other spots as well.
I'm in the 12-14 key range so I'm not offering any advice for "high" keys. And I doubt it's the most optimal. But I do pug everything and generally speaking if people are doing the mechanics my routes / tactics always end within the timer.
Over the time you just need to find your own style of routing and pulling. Being confident in your pulls and knowing what should come next is vital to timing keys.
Lots of trial and error and planning (at least for me, which I find fun.)
There's a reason each key has 200 dps listed and 5 tanks lol
south zealot
Probably, yeah. Although if your group is just letting them spam cast to the poi...
tanks are more and more common when u get higher io in my experience
hbasically every group in groupfinder has a tank at a certain point
partially bc tanks are more likely to reroll to the meta spec that pugs really look for
and partially bc you have the most control of the dungeons as tank in the majority of situations
so its pretty easy to farm io
rigid yew
Fight the meta! Be unique!
Rage Against The Meta
next yacht
@ionic fern then probably you will never reroll xD
south zealot
all the tier sets are super lame
rigid hull
Theres also a channel to discuss that
yah my bad
violet ginkgo
In the meantime, I might need tips for the mammoth boss at neltharus. The Charge it's not really my responsibility right? I mean the dps should aim it at the shortest wall possible?
or should I do something at that boss as tank?
blazing condor
the tank job on that boss is to make sure its not standing in lava
cus then it gets stronk
otherwise the whole team should coordinate charges and shit
violet ginkgo
Oooh I didn’t know it got boosted in Lava, I normally always dragged it out from lava to make space for team to move Especially during the lava spray. Then so far what I have done is good it’s just people have to know to coordinate like in chargath then.
blazing condor
grim pilot
<@325173865175318529> how to do pull 2
I have no fucking idea
blazing condor
always has been
austere oar
I have no fucking idea
Aug with the tp to ally talent ?
I've seen one pull, jump into the void with double hover and flying to the pillar in the middle then TP to their ally on the platform and it snapped
balmy shell
anyone tested if this works on mass taunt?
dark barn
Probably not
torn gulch
It does on both taunts I tested yesterday
Dead trinket
And this is the wrong channel for it
wet bough
hey sorry if this is not the place, but i was wondering if ignore pain is reduced by mortal strike type effects.
wet bough
no it should not be
thank you
wet bough
only direct heals
as a healer main i know those effects tend to include a lot of our regular absorbs so thats why i asked
median tulip
Oooh I didn’t know it got boosted in Lava, I normally always dragged it out from...
I always type "bait the charge at the walls". First charge is ALWAYS all the way across the room. No exceptions. Pugs DPS suck
acoustic needle
can someone help me with macros and other stuff I'm new to protection warrior and a bit new to wow cata
strong forum
as a healer main i know those effects tend to include a lot of our regular absor...
Yes it is
Healing reducing effects such as mortal strike or necrotic do affect ignore pain
wet bough
Oh thank you
rigid hull
do i buy a shield or ring next week ?
i have everything
gholak
trinkets
all that is left are rings
harsh trellis
So just want to understand wtf is up with trinkets. Is the trinket adjustment a TWW thing or a Current content thing?
radiant mortar
#1230008411333066913 is the channel you are looking for
median tulip
So just want to understand wtf is up with trinkets. Is the trinket adjustment a ...
It'll happen with pre-patch AIUI
violet ginkgo
So just want to understand wtf is up with trinkets. Is the trinket adjustment a ...
only TWW you don't need to worry about our current.
or at least not yet
mild latch
the little forggos that spawn on the 2nd boss of HoI after AoE
Do they also fixate random people like the frog trash mobs in the dungeon? or can we aggro them
jagged pier
Foxate
mild latch
smh
had an mdps guildie moaning at me to taunt them
I was sure they fixated
but I thought I'd make sure
radiant mortar
man I will miss Dreadplate and Anvil
just goated buttons and if we dont have on use in TWW I have empty binds
second icc run without dropping a shard...
violet ginkgo
had an mdps guildie moaning at me to taunt them
told that mdps he is a noob
crystal iris
hunters are the worst
and they still get into more keys than warriors for no reason
violet ginkgo
and they still get into more keys than warriors for no reason
the reason is lust.
crystal iris
well bc lust, but if they are dedicated lust then they just fall over with no defensive pet
they have no real AOE stuns that they use
eat up healers time
crude scaffold
Warrior lust shout when?
violet ginkgo
I mean here is what happened usually with pug, there is tank, priest healer, 1 ret pally then balance druid, the last they need is lust and there is BM hunter applying. The leader will be like "Eh it's lust anyway, I don't want to wait until mage/shaman/evoker apply"
mild latch
told that mdps he is a noob
big true
violet ginkgo
and then what happened nim?
lusty grotto
and told me "hey tank, i didnt know about chains, ty for teaching me something"
which took me fucking back
mild latch
that warms the heart
lusty grotto
cause thats not usually how that goes
i didnt even say anything, i just pinged chains lmao
violet ginkgo
wait if you ping and then he did it... did he know or not know? lul
lusty grotto
i guess he saw other people doing them
but he was like "i have a tank and i just keep running in and not stopping at them"
and i told him "oh! well no prob"
violet ginkgo
did he at least bait the mammoth charge to wall?
lusty grotto
a hunter?