are they like actual scooters, or those chopper-like bikes?
#off-topic-bond-james-bond
tacit girder
verbal pelican
opaque tartan
@verbal pelican is it these ones?
tacit girder
oh no....
verbal pelican
Wish I could, man. Cruella Weakerman might revoke my citizenship
elder shale
We have those dotted all around Lisbon, sometimes not parked in their proper place which is annoying :]
verbal pelican
Oh these are the mopeds McPoop was referring to
tacit girder
We have those dotted all around Lisbon, sometimes not parked in their proper pla...
hahahahahahahaha
this reminds me of something
hold up
Code you're gonna love this
verbal pelican
We have those dotted all around Lisbon, sometimes not parked in their proper pla...
Same here. =_=
Why can’t I love it?
Hmpf
elder shale
Smhhhh
tacit girder
There's one city in the Netherlands which absolutely vandalizes those e-scooters
so someone made an instagram account and covers those incidents that happen in said city
with poems
verbal pelican
Niiice
verbal pelican
😄
tacit girder
Oh those are straight up scooters wat
yeah, and it'll shock you how expensive said scooter model is
they're IVA E-GO's
they're 3000 eur (correction)
opaque tartan
Wish I could, man. Cruella Weakerman might revoke my citizenship
Fuck that POS
She's another fake one
verbal pelican
She is vile
opaque tartan
In the Priti and Kamala gang
verbal pelican
And I thought no one can beat Priti Patel at being a degenerate
tacit girder
verbal pelican
Yup
verbal pelican
These are newer, no?
I saw these a lot on high streets
Parked on pedestrian areas
tacit girder
those are very uncommon
the older ones are even more uncommon
reason being; they're diesels
they aren't allowed in certain "emission zones"
verbal pelican
Ahh makes sense
tacit girder
the newer ones manage to comply with environmental guidelines
verbal pelican
Ever tried moving one? :p
tacit girder
luckily not
verbal pelican
try and guess how much one of those costs
€18k?
verbal pelican
Makes sense. They are not that much smaller than a smart
tacit girder
that's the newest model though. the Ligier JS60. Airconditioning, power steering, and apple CarPlay
tacit girder
I only know of two of those in the entire province i live in
A friend of mine picked one up and tuned it to reach stupidly high speeds, and the other one is in a small village near the German border.
the only two i know of
verbal pelican
Tbf I only saw them in Amsterdam. Didn’t notice any in Utrect, or Hague
tacit girder
I might actually have a picture of one of them
verbal pelican
A friend of mine picked one up and tuned it to reach stupidly high speeds, and t...
Erm, do I want to know what the result was?
tacit girder
found the photo!
teal raptor
Fractal update seems nice, might consider reinstalling 🙂
elder shale
yeah, and it'll shock you how expensive said scooter model is
But like that needs a driver's license, no?
tacit girder
did a major update just get released as we were talking about microcars
teal raptor
you don't need a driver's license for Ligier's here
tacit girder
But like that needs a driver's license, no?
correct - but there's a major BUT to that;
teal raptor
their max speed is also capped to 40 km/h iirc
tacit girder
you can drive this with a moped license in the Netherlands
elder shale
Ye but still license
tacit girder
which costs about 300-500eur (varies per person)
compared to a full car license, which can cost up to 3500-4000 currently
elder shale
would be weird 8f the average Joe could just drive one lol
tacit girder
Erm, do I want to know what the result was?
honestly, i'm not entirely sure myself either
tacit girder
i don't precisely know the mods he did. I do know that thing sounds like it has a V8 built into it when he starts it up.
verbal pelican
Sokay, you like carb. So do I
verbal pelican
i don't precisely know the mods he did. I do know that thing sounds like it has ...
So, your mate built a small cessna
tacit girder
braaaaap, brap brap ping ping, bowaaaaaaaaaapppp
verbal pelican
Because it will literally fly away
tacit girder
i'll ask him if he has a fly-by video (no pun intended)
i haven't seen it in person. the red one above was the one near the German border
his one is grey
nevermind
i just noticed
a canta doesn't require a license
not even over here
a Ligier does, on the other hand
opaque tartan
did a major update just get released as we were talking about microcars
Fractal
verbal pelican
i haven't seen it in person. the red one above was the one near the German borde...
Do share if he has a video. Would be great to see it.
opaque tartan
It's the only reason I'm on this discord
opaque tartan
Apart from @mint spear
opaque tartan
I'm kidding, ofc it is
verbal pelican
Wow. Must find Red and inform.
tacit girder
you are allowed to drive a canta on the sidewalk?????? what the hell
verbal pelican
you are allowed to drive a canta on the sidewalk?????? what the hell
That sounds ridiculous. They want ppl to stop walking or wut.
opaque tartan
I'll flip a Canta too, just watch
verbal pelican
Do it. Ill bail you out
opaque tartan
Safe
tacit girder
😵💫
now i know why my friend got a canta
they can't take your license for speeding if you don't have to own one
tacit girder
I'll flip a Canta too, just watch
totally agree. i can see myself doing this as well
opaque tartan
I just want to walk in peace
tacit girder
no one should trust me with a motorized vehicle
opaque tartan
Either by myself or with my dog
That's not a lot to ask for
And these scooter fuckers try to stare me down
tacit girder
I just want to walk in peace
behold! a miniature vehicle approaching you at a speed of 6 km/h!
opaque tartan
Not good man
opaque tartan
*behold! a miniature vehicle approaching you at a speed of 6 km/h!*
Fast enough to hurt my dog
And last time someone kicked my old dog I went ballistic
tacit girder
Oh i know, i'm a dog owner myself
opaque tartan
I remember
tacit girder
And last time someone kicked my old dog I went ballistic
hold on, what?
opaque tartan
Yeah bro, I don't have tolerance anymore
Turn a blind eye to majority of things or ignore people
But not for that
tacit girder
no no, i wasn't referring to you, wtf was the other guy thinking?
opaque tartan
I was walking past a bus station and someone kicked my dog for no reason
tacit girder
to kick your dog?
opaque tartan
So I dropped the lead
opaque tartan
to kick your dog?
Certain minorities here don't like dogs
I'm a minority that does
tacit girder
Certain minorities here don't like dogs
that's their problem. not you or your dog's problem.
opaque tartan
It's not against the law here to own or walk my dog
Some people need a reminder
With my knee
opaque tartan
Police didn't either
tacit girder
i'm not going to let anyone get away with abusing my dog.
If they're bold enough to throw a punch to a dog, they should definitely be able to take one
odd comparison; i have a very similar issue with my bike
opaque tartan
None of my dogs have ever attacked a person
All well trained and behaved
Can't say the same for people
Give them to me for a week
tacit girder
All well trained and behaved
same, we take our puppy to training 1x a week on a regular basis
tacit girder
can't imagine someone being so cruel to hurt him
opaque tartan
My dog was a lot bigger
tacit girder
he is the sweetest and most affectionate animal i have known in my life
opaque tartan
Yup
tacit girder
i'm so jealous
opaque tartan
Might get one again
tacit girder
You don't know how badly i wanted a samoyed
opaque tartan
Dw, wait a few years
One of the best companions I've ever had
Kept me warm during winter
Didn't need to hold the lead ever
Instant on recall
tacit girder
we didn't get one though, mom argued they needed more space and time than we currenty have
tacit girder
Didn't need to hold the lead ever
i know - they are so smart and loyal
given trained and raised properly
opaque tartan
tacit girder
they are also the kind of breed that can grow very stubborn, afaik
tacit girder
my heart literally melts
opaque tartan
given trained and raised properly
Yeah had to be really strict
Lot of walking too
About 4 hours a day, minimum
tacit girder
didn't you have any issues with their fur? lots of hair loss, etc
high-maintainance
opaque tartan
Double coat bro
So yeah
But I liked grooming her
And she knew when she looked extra pretty
tacit girder
oh yeah i would too
opaque tartan
Sat proudly after brushing
tacit girder
though definitely something to keep in mind beforehand
hold on, Nate, i need to show you a video
he proudly brought me a feather
he just dropped it in front of me and sat down like that.
tacit girder
<@234237291365793792>
gorgeous animal
edgy egret
Tiny blep today
opaque tartan
I used to sit in that tree and smoke a joint while she ran around with other dogs
opaque tartan
Tiny blep today
Majestic
tacit girder
i love dogs
opaque tartan
Just not a fan of chihuahuas
But they're kinda pest control
Shame they end up in handbags and not being the useful animal they can be
No wonder so many have a bad temperament
tacit girder
most of the people who get a chihuahua don't raise them the way they need to or even at all
exactly
the owners are the problem most of the time, not the breed
opaque tartan
They're like ratting dogs, terriers
Jack Russells and Yorkies are so good at hunting rats
tacit girder
i know someone who has two chihuahua's. they're so calm and affectionate.
but they raised them well and with proper discipline.
opaque tartan
Rare
It's the same as when people raise fighting or aggressive dogs
Exactly the same issues just a smaller dog
tacit girder
couldn't have said it better myself
opaque tartan
Most are ok but the handbag ones I've met in London
tacit girder
yet most of the time the breed gets the blame for it
tacit girder
yeah exactly
opaque tartan
Or is it trash like you
tacit girder
they treat it like an object
opaque tartan
Or worse yet, their child
I get love and affection but they become overly protective and aggressive
tacit girder
"would you put your child in a handbag?" -me, probably
opaque tartan
And they'll look at my dogs because of their breed but not these shits
tacit girder
I get love and affection but they become overly protective and aggressive
owner probably has a worse temper than the dog itself
opaque tartan
Nah they're too empty in the head
tacit girder
sorry, i'll stop
had to do it
it might surprise you but i receive similar prejudices like that quite often when i ride my bike
i've had plenty of people approach and treat me as if i am a criminal, when i was just minding my own business
opaque tartan
Yeah used to get that more often
Now if I get stopped I just stand there and stare at them
tacit girder
i had an elderly guy turn around and blind me with a 200W flashlight for 8 seconds straight the other day
at night
opaque tartan
Stop and stare at them
tacit girder
if i wasn't in a hurry, i would have turned around and asked him what his problem was
would genuinely like to know
i just can't comprehend what it is that bothers people so much
they act like as if a passing bike that makes just some more noise than usual ruins their entire week beyond repair.
the fact that i ride a 2-stroke doesn't make it better
i have an hideous engine noise. i know. i'd change it if i could. no need to lash out to me for it.
man, i miss my bike.
already 2 months without it
slender quartz
Danke.
teal raptor
bitte
hexed brook
i just can't comprehend what it is that bothers people so much
They're mad they can't have fun too
Those are the same people that would be like "whoa a hot rod that makes a dying gremlin sound I love it!!"
maiden seal
people just need something to be mad at fr
dry bison
Stop and stare at them
I think I'm moving but I go no where.
@tacit girder You really don't want to pick that scab. There's a whole culture of people burying their anger and resentment, rather than ever admitting they could be wrong about things, or taking things the wrong way. It becomes a defense mechanism that prevents personal growth
I'd say it's toxic, but I'm not so sure anymore. The PH Balance of an entire culture makes people who aren't toxic look alien
Imagine asking someone what their problem is...They aren't going to answer your question. They'll say "you" to escalate.
eternal thorn
Man that bothers me a lot
Usually any place I work theres always one person that takes issue with me but never tells me why
At the very least just explain what the problem is so I can see if we can resolve it, otherwise you just look like an ass
covert pivot
heavy vine
@tall trail Intel did 63.03 billion USD in revenue in 2022, and had a net income of 2.33 billion USD
That's a profit margin of 3%
tall trail
I guess their profit margins dropped off a cliff and i didn't hear
Okay i believe you, i'm out of date
heavy vine
Yeah i mean their profit margins were absolutely stupid in the mid 2010s
When they had no competition in x86 CPUs
tall trail
I mean last time I checked was more like 2020 I think
But then Ryzen and M1 came and Intel started struggling to convince people to buy their stuff, so that's probably where the profit margins went
heavy vine
It also might be you were looking at the amount of profit they make per chip disregarding rng
The issue there being that rnd is by far the biggest single expenditure any semicon company will have
tall trail
It also might be you were looking at the amount of profit they make per chip dis...
Nah wasn't disincluding that
heavy vine
OK
tall trail
That's what everyone does to Apple lol
heavy vine
Yep xD
tall trail
They like iPhone only costs £400 to make or Samsung Galaxy only costs £300 or something
But obviously phones have loads of research and development
heavy vine
I dislike apples business practices a lot, but i do recognize that in some areas they are just flat out better than the competition
Mainly, ipads and apple watch
Phones are NOTHING compared to chips though
heavy vine
Ehh
verbal pelican
Usually any place I work theres always one person that takes issue with me but n...
It could be as simple as you resembling someone they dislike. Which is fine, I don’t need to be validated by my colleagues, but it does affect productivity at work. People should learn to behave civilly irrespective of their differences, but yeah, not happenin.
tall trail
Apple has their own controlled system which is separate from the rest of the tech world
heavy vine
I don't love them or hate them, i think they have a super shitty ecosystem that should not be as closed off as it is, that IMO just shouldn't be allowed tbh
tall trail
All the decisions about what you can do are controlled by their kind of supreme leader Tim Cook
heavy vine
I think that allows them to overcharge on their products, and they are major scumbags when it comes to right to repair
eternal thorn
It could be as simple as you resembling someone they dislike. Which is fine, I d...
Which would be weird, I'm the only person that looks like me 
Except maybe my dad, but he's a rather charismatic guy. I don't know many people that don't like him, save for my mom
tall trail
In the world of Apple you don't have freedom of choice to change stuff, modify it, upgrade it, repair it, customise it, the core user experience is all determined by Apple, like how China works.
heavy vine
A lot of it is just unnecessary stuff as well, like for some reason they refuse to allow direct GPU hardware access for programs on macOS, which means macOS cannot support anything newer than openGL 3.0, out of all of the industry standard GPU APIs
eternal thorn
I blame my RBF tbh
verbal pelican
Haha, well, then you know where to point finger. Clearly he is hoarding all the charm for himself.
heavy vine
Instead ppl are forced to use their proprietary Metal API which is as low level as DX12 or Vulkan but performs the same as OpenGL 4
tall trail
A lot of it is just unnecessary stuff as well, like for some reason they refuse ...
Ok actually not fair
Metal exists
And Metal came before Vulkan
And Vulkan is basically a copy of Metal
heavy vine
Yeah except apple was on the board to create Vulkan
They ditched Vulkan and released Metal instead
And now refuse to support Vulkan
heavy vine
Yeah Apple was one of the original developers of vulkan
And Metal btw is absolute dogshit compared to DX or Vulkan lol
heavy vine
It performs about the same as openGL 4 but is as low level as vulkan or dx12
tall trail
It is true
heavy vine
How
tall trail
The real problem is the inefficiency in converting stuff designed for Vulkan or OpenGL into Metal, developers do a poor job and blame it on Metal
heavy vine
No, the issue is in Metals fundamental architechture
Metal does not have direct GPU access for programs
tall trail
Metal is just faster because of optimisation
heavy vine
All calls go through the OS
tall trail
It has optimised perfomance shaders
tall trail
Which run super fast because they only need to support a single GPU
heavy vine
They need to support multiple GPU architechtures and multiple GPUs
tall trail
And Vulkan doesn't?
Not to the same extent because when you have to support lots of devices you can't make it as efficient
tall trail
Yeah true, there is AMD and Intel
heavy vine
Yep
tall trail
But
But though
You can get by it by making games which only work on Apple GPUs
like Resident Evil Village Mac port
so it does get the extra efficiency
But yeah it is frustrating that there isn't cross platform game development between Mac and Windows
heavy vine
Is there a comparison of that when using a Vega on a mac pro and a vega on like a linux machine?
The Windows drivers for vega are actual dogshit
tall trail
Is there a comparison of that when using a Vega on a mac pro and a vega on like ...
No because the original GPUs in 2019 Mac Pro are only in Mac Pro
heavy vine
Iirc no?
tall trail
Doesn't work on Linux I don't think
heavy vine
Wdym?
tall trail
Wdym?
I mean the Mac Pro GPUs
Like the 2019 Mac Pro
Because they aren't normal AMD GPUs
They're custom ones
heavy vine
Oh no yeah they dont but the equivalent GPUs exist as normal PCIe GPUs
As in they have the same die and memory configuration
tall trail
You can't get a Vega II or Vega II Duo outside Mac Pro
heavy vine
Different cooling and interface
tall trail
As in they have the same die and memory configuration
Yeah
And for some reason no drivers for it
heavy vine
And die and memory config is all that really matters
tall trail
But you can install Windows
tall trail
Yeah
heavy vine
Im not talking about the mac ones
tall trail
ok
tall trail
Yes
heavy vine
So a 1 to 1 comparison should be very possible
tall trail
Oh yeah it is
Hmm
I think the biggest problem though is going to be finding an app which is equally optimised for Metal and DirectX or Vulkan
tall trail
Yeah
heavy vine
for a very good reason as well
There's absolutely no reason why macs shouldnt support Vulkan
Or openGL 4
tall trail
No
heavy vine
Its much higher level than Vulkan
heavy vine
Bruh
Do you understand how insanely labour intensive writing an engine in vulkan is vs opengl
tall trail
Metal does 10x more draw calls than OpenGL (as said by Epic Games CEO Tim Sweeny), and Im guessing Vulkan is the same
heavy vine
That doesnt mean anything
wraith reef
Lazy like not bothering to release the game for mac because it's now more trouble than it's worth?
tall trail
Do you understand how insanely labour intensive writing an engine in vulkan is v...
Yes, I read the entire Metal documentation (~2750 pages)
tall trail
No but I mean I know it's difficult to write in Metal and Vulkan
opaque tartan
@eternal thorn what have I told you about joining conversations without posting 80s music before hand
opaque tartan
Unacceptable behaviour
heavy vine
Which is why its very popular
tall trail
Yes but
opaque tartan
Mod assistance please
tall trail
Stuff like Unity exists
heavy vine
Yeah, for a reason
heavy vine
Yeah except if for example Unity doesnt do it for you
If you need to make your own engine
tall trail
If you want to make your own engine you should do it in a lower level language than OpenGL
heavy vine
Why?
You probably won't need the performance
And the extra effort is like very much not worth it if you don't
tall trail
Because otherwise it's slower than just writing it with an existing game engine
heavy vine
Except if you can't use an existing game engine
tall trail
The problem is the hurt of OpenGL outweighs the tiny niches which would advantage from it
Because if it was allowed
heavy vine
What is the hurt of opengl
heavy vine
Bruh
tall trail
bad battery life
heavy vine
Do you understand
That a ton of games already use openGL
And just dont support macOS
This would not change anything in that
tall trail
That a ton of games already use openGL
Yeah, I wouldn't use OpenGL
heavy vine
Only allow macOS support for those games
tall trail
I stay away from OpenGL on Windows as well
heavy vine
So let me get this straight
your argument for not allowing openGL on macOS is that it forces developers who want to support macOS to use a lower level more performant API?
When macOS is such a tiny portion of the market that what they in reality do is just don't support macOS in the first place if they can't use openGL on macOS?
tall trail
Well sort of
I mean if OpenGL was higher level but also very fast would be fine
The problem is it's slow
Like how I wouldn't write games with Java
heavy vine
Yeah
OK so do you recognize that there are situations in which the performance of the API is effectively irrelevant?
tall trail
When macOS is such a tiny portion of the market that what they in reality do is ...
Yeah well i'd prefer not to have OpenGL games on Mac
But there are many Vulkan games
Like No Mans Sky for example
tall trail
OK so do you recognize that there are situations in which the performance of the...
Yeah of course
heavy vine
Yeah so why the fuck would you not use openGL for those
If its way easier to write in, requires less dev time, and runs the same
tall trail
Because if perfomance is irrelevant you could use an existing game engine
tall trail
The only reason to make a whole game engine is if you want one more optimised for faster perfomance for your app or game
tall trail
They don't need to
heavy vine
They do though
tall trail
They probably shouldn't
heavy vine
There's a very good reason Minecraft, Terraria and Factorio all use their own engines
tall trail
They do though
I know, but still
heavy vine
They're all way better off using their own engines even if those engines are riddled with bugs and weird quirks
teal raptor
Terraria has its own egine? interesting
heavy vine
Because existing game engines just do not support anything like what they do
tall trail
Terraria has its own egine? interesting
Nah
wraith reef
It uses XDA or whatever, an old thing
tall trail
Oh yeah sorry
wraith reef
Well no, but it handles the graphics etc. IIRC.
heavy vine
Yep, that it does
tall trail
anyways doesn't matter
tall trail
Minecraft is enough to make a point
heavy vine
Yeah
teal raptor
is it based on LUA?
heavy vine
No
tall trail
But still I would use a low level language if I was making Minecraft
heavy vine
There's two versions of minecraft, one in C++ and one in Java
They literally did that
Bedrock edition is using C++
tall trail
Yeah lol
heavy vine
And openGL
tall trail
Here's the thing
heavy vine
Because it's so much less work to write it in openGL than vulkan
tall trail
I'm not saying high level languages shouldn't exist
heavy vine
And it's also so much easier to ensure compatability
tall trail
Im specifically saying OpenGL shouldn;t
tall trail
If there was another faster more efficient language on level of OpenGL that would be fine
teal raptor
I'm waiting for Poopy's opinion
heavy vine
Metal for sure isn't an alternative, it's low level but performs like a high level API, and it's also MacOS exclusive
tall trail
Well there isn't one for now so until then get rid of OpenGL cause it's bad
heavy vine
Bruh
tall trail
And someone will figure out a replacement
opaque tartan
Just go back in time and delete OpenGL, do us a favour and kill Hitler while you're at it
heavy vine
Clearly a lot of devs disagree with you
People would make alternative APIs if openGL was that bad
Which apple did but the reasons for that arent that openGL is bad
opaque tartan
I'm waiting for Poopy's opinion
Dude I just don't think people understand budget and time constraints for teams
teal raptor
yeah
opaque tartan
Depends on budget and time constraints
tall trail
It's like how developers charge you for the same game like 4 times. once your your console, once for your desktop, once for your phone, once for your switch, etc.
heavy vine
Regardless of whether openGL should exist or not, Apple's refusal to support vulkan has nothing to do with it
tall trail
Cause there is no one stopping them, even thoguh you own the game, they make you buy it multiple times because they can
opaque tartan
You used Minecraft as an example and they have completely different needs and constraints as maybe, Guerilla or Ubisoft
tall trail
I mean look at the gaming laptop industry, thick, noisy laptops with rubbish battery life which break easily, why, because they can
heavy vine
Apple refuses to support Vulkan or openGL because they require direct hardware GPU access for programs instead of having all the calls be made through the OS, which is also insanely slow and impossible for a cross OS compatible API that wishes to support all OS's not just some dedicated ones
Idk man i have a pretty sleek laptop i play games on
And no it's not because they can
It's because turns out doing cooling in a thin af laptop is genuinely insanely hard
tall trail
It is, an industry designed to drive prices up for the consumer even more than Apple
heavy vine
Due to the way physics works
tall trail
People paying £4000 for a 4090 laptop
heavy vine
There's a reason the macbook air performs like crap under sustained load
tall trail
There's a reason the macbook air performs like crap under sustained load
Not true
I mean Intel ones did
heavy vine
xD
heavy vine
M1 does as well
tall trail
M1 uses 10 watts also
tall trail
Not much higher
M1 GPU peaked at 12 watts I think
M2 peaks at like 15
But still exponential increase in power consumption for perfomance gains
so 10 watts is only around 15 percent slower than 15 watts on M2
tall trail
Yeah bc it has like no compute units ig
What do you mean
Here is the big problem for Windows gaming
heavy vine
?
heavy vine
I mean that M2 macbook air GPUs have very low compute unit counts
heavy vine
Laptops are indeed an issue atm
tall trail
There is a point they start to melt, heatsinks and fans can't move air fast enough, etc.
heavy vine
But desktops really aren't tbh
thick stump
soon you'll need a server rack just to house the GPU
tall trail
Now there is actually a workaround
heavy vine
There's always a cycle in GPUs with power and efficiency
tall trail
If you double the cores but decrease the clock speed, you can get like 30 percent extra perfomance
heavy vine
We're currently in the far end of the power curve
tall trail
The problem with that is price though
heavy vine
If you double the cores but decrease the clock speed, you can get like 30 percen...
Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
it's not that simple
tall trail
Nvidia has run out of ways to increase an individual core so they rely on smaller nodes and more cores at a lower clcok speed
tall trail
it's not that simple
I know but i'm trying to simplify it
heavy vine
You don't need to, i'm very well familiar with how GPUs work lol
tall trail
Oh good
opaque tartan
soon you'll need a server rack just to house the GPU
They used to house computers in the centre of buildings
tall trail
Chip binning is also a problem, double the size, double the chance of a fault, which is why they will need chiplets to bring the chances of failure back down
heavy vine
Yeah which AMD is already doing
opaque tartan
Still some remnants in older offices
tall trail
Yes
heavy vine
Also yeah it's not rly binning that's the issue, it's defects
thick stump
They used to house computers in the centre of buildings
ye they were massive for a few bytes worth
tall trail
Also yeah it's not rly binning that's the issue, it's defects
Yeah but that's what causes chip binning
heavy vine
It's a bit more nuanced than that, but ig in some sense that's correct lol
tall trail
Did you know the new gaming laptops use up to 200 watts
and sustain 140 watts
That's starting to become a problem
heavy vine
I didn't, but makes sense
Yep
Ik
There's no fundamental limit that nvidia's hit tho
There's no fundamental reason why it can't be passed
heavy vine
SRAM only stops scaling at 3nm currently and nvidia isn't hitting that
tall trail
They ran out of ways to increase an individual core's speed without...
lucid granite
weak minded
heavy vine
They also haven't done a full architectural redesign since 2016 btw
tall trail
Smaller node or more cores at lower clock speed
lucid granite
literally just stack two gpus on top of each other
heavy vine
Vega was much more power efficient than nvidias stuff on an equal node
tall trail
I said starting in 2018 as in that's the year the first year they didn't improve more
tall trail
literally just stack two gpus on top of each other
But you can't do that in a laptop
tall trail
literally just stack two gpus on top of each other
Just use chiplets though
heavy vine
Like, this isn't a problem with windows gaming
tall trail
Vega was much more power efficient than nvidias stuff on an equal node
Yes, and M1 is on a higher node and still more efficient
heavy vine
it's an issue with nvidias future GPUs assuming they haven't already solved it and it's just taking a while for the product to hit the market
lucid granite
meh laptops
heavy vine
M1 is on a better node than any Vega GPU ever was
tall trail
Nvidia 4080 and 4090 and stuff is on 4nm
heavy vine
Despite also being a much older architechture
And despite having much less efficient memory
M1 is not some magic architechture with uniquely insane efficiency
tall trail
4nm is why it's expensive, people say Nvidia 4080 and 4090 is being overpriced, but as much as I don't use their GPUs, they're not overpriced because they didn't increase profit margins, 4nm is just very expensive.
heavy vine
Ehhhh no the issue isn't 4nm
tall trail
Not with performance, I just mean it's the reason they're so expensive
heavy vine
The issue is 4nm in combination with the GIGANTIC monolithic dies which results in a very high cost per die due to a high defect rate
tall trail
The issue is 4nm in combination with the GIGANTIC monolithic dies which results ...
That as well
But the 4080 has less CUDA cores than the 3080
tall trail
So it is clearly more expensive, but yeah more dies is better
You know what's funny about more dies
Lol, Apple in 2013 with the "trash can" Mac Pro said the future of GPUs is more dies, they started with two GPUs
And Nvidia went nope, single die, and won
Obviously they are going to have to change that soon though and go with multiple dies
heavy vine
Yes, and btw that isnt unique to apple
AMD has made multi die GPUs for AGES
Well before 2013 iirc
You have to remember at that point multi die meant something completely different
Literally meant having two different full monolithic dies on the same pcb
tall trail
Yeah
The thing is Nvidia is left with a big problem
As their CEO said
the days of double the perfomance each time with Nvidia GPUs at the same price are "absolutely over"
heavy vine
Yeah ofc
tall trail
But
heavy vine
For all semiconductors too, it's not just an nvidia thing
tall trail
That's not true with Apple Silicon yet
heavy vine
This also effects apple
heavy vine
The only reason for that is because their first gen wasn't very optimized compared to the node they're on
tall trail
Not just because of die nodes
tall trail
I mean M1 Max is 40 watts and beats Nvidia 3080 laptop slightly which takes over 100 watts
safe path
Ugh this layover in Vegas is taking way to long
heavy vine
That depends SO HEAVILY on the task though
safe path
Been here since midnight
heavy vine
M1 max beats 3080 on anything that's even close to memory bottlenecked
Because 3080 has GDDR and M1 has on-die DDR
tall trail
Not just memory bottlenecked tasks
The thing is somehow Apple keeps coming up with more efficiency but Nvidia doesn't
And one day when Nvidia hits a ceiling of laptop wattage
They will either have to make the price ridicolous
Or stop
And Apple will beat them even with their lower power consumption
tall trail
Or they might be able to actually make a good product?
Who
heavy vine
nvidia
tall trail
Yeah, hopefully they have some trick up their sleeves
I think they tried with ray tracing and dlss
heavy vine
Apple is also going to hit the efficiency limit btw
tall trail
these were the first attempts of getting around the fact they're struggling to increase performance per watt
heavy vine
Ray tracing and dlss are absolutely the future btw
heavy vine
Lol
tall trail
Some people I know still deny how useful ray tracing is
tall trail
I want one, but they're expensive
they going to price themselves out of the market lol
heavy vine
I mean tbf i'm also a broke uni student
tall trail
The sort of interesting thing is Apple M3
Apple is cooking a surprise giant GPU upgrade
With ray tracing of course, but also way faster performance at same wattage
heavy vine
I btw think raytracing is still mostly a gimmick, it's going to be until they can make an actual difference in how games look relative to hacks that you can get through raster light
tall trail
I btw think raytracing is still mostly a gimmick, it's going to be until they ca...
Nah ray tracing is great
I have tried on nvidia 2070
If done correctly it's amazing
heavy vine
DLSS is super useful raytracing is not lol
If done correctly there's almost nothing that ray tracing can do that traditional raster rendering can't
tall trail
Did you know Metal has a DLSS equivalent, just random fact
thick stump
ray tracing looks amazing though and isn't going away anytime soon
heavy vine
The product in DLSS isn't the API
The product is the deep learning part
The API is trivial
tall trail
Yeah I know
tall trail
The API is trivial
Is nice
Apple's DLSS is very good
Called MetalFX upscaling
Lol
They really didn't refrain from calling it honestly
tall trail
What do you think it is
heavy vine
That's just normal upscaling
tall trail
It uses the machine learning cores to convert a lower resolution to a higher resolution
tall trail
Same as DLSS
heavy vine
It's not
heavy vine
There's a fundamental difference between DLSS and other AI upscaling
DLSS is trained by nvidia on the specific game that it's building support for
It's not general
That's why indie games don't get DLSS
Only massive AAA titles get it due to that
heavy vine
So DLSS is fundamentally different than AMDs or Apples upscaling
tall trail
Apple's MetalFX is good enough you can barely tell it's on
heavy vine
Apples upscaling sounds like their take on fidelityFX
Which is AMDs upscaling thingy
(which i am actually using right now xd)
tall trail
Yeah I haven't used FideltyFX so i can't comment
heavy vine
It's quite good
I'm using it in No Man's Sky because the performance is abhorrent without it for some reason
tall trail
But here's the thing
No MetalFX is not normal upscaling
It is still machine learning "AI" upscaling
heavy vine
I mean yes it's sort of different than normal upscaling, but it's no different to fidelityFX
tall trail
And it's very good
tall trail
Nvidia has the luxury of a very dominant position in gaming which means they can optimise it more with DLSS, I didn't know before you told me but nice to know.
heavy vine
???
tall trail
I mean like you said DLSS has a special connection to the games it's upscaling
heavy vine
Yeah, that's the insane one with the stupidly good results
tall trail
Game developers probably wouldn't work with anyone else other than Nvidia on that
heavy vine
There's a general version though
Which is much worse
But still very good
Better than AMDs
And im willing to bet miles better than apples
tall trail
You haven't tried Apple's
heavy vine
Yeah ik
tall trail
It is surprisingly good
heavy vine
Sure
But yeah as i said apple won't be avoiding the efficiency scaling for long
There's a fundamental issue in the semicon industry since 7nm or so, the cost of equipment is scaling exponentially, and it's finally reached the point where it's influencing actual product pricing
tall trail
Yeah
Apple's headset is going to be interesting anyways, even if it's expensive, it will be good
heavy vine
It could also be a disaster
Apple has had bad product launches before
Im hoping its good though
tall trail
The rumour is they have a £3000 headset this year, a £1500 for next year and a £500 AR Glasses in 5 years
Now before you say wow expensive, these headsets aren't regular consumer devices
The £3000 one is competing against £3000 gaming laptops, bringing a way better gaming experience, and for certain businesses where this is a small cost.
heavy vine
It's not competing against gaming laptops
tall trail
And the £1500 one is still for more high end use cases
heavy vine
It's competing against HTC vive and such
tall trail
It's not competing against gaming laptops
It is
Nah because
The GPU and stuff built in
tall trail
No
You could say it's like an Oculus Quest
except for it's much more high end
Anyways you won't get it until you see it so
Probably best to leave this, just wait for June
heavy vine
I mean
The issue is fundamentally that including the GPU on the headset itself means you also have to have batteries for it
Because it increase power draw a MASSIVE amount especially if you're running high fidelity stuff
Which then means the headset is way more clunky
IMO the path forwards isn't integrating GPUs into the VR headset, it's wireless VR headsets using like a 60ghz wifi link
Because that allows you to keep the gear youre wearing as light as possible, while allowing full freedom of movement, and a stationary place for the compute unit to be at
Which obviously gets you the ability to have much higher power draw for the compute, as well as competent cooling
dry bison
Imagine strapping an easy bake oven to your face
That's what happens when you put a GPU in a headset
zenith pebble
but would you get fresh cookies to eat while playing?
limber fractal
but would you get fresh cookies to eat while playing?
i want fresh cookies
limber fractal
Well about 20 minutes now to boarding
oooh where you headed?
safe path
Back home from Portland
In layover at Vegas right now
Been here since 1am
It's 928a now
And it's 3h26m flight
safe path
I try but can't
safe path
Flight is pulling to gate now
elder shale
Haven't flown in veritable years
humble marsh
Damn it, new NMS update is making me want to reinstall it
but my whole identity is that I don't play NMS
limber fractal
Haven't flown in veritable years
veritable 
it's def been a while for me now, jeez
limber fractal
Damn it, new NMS update is making me want to reinstall it
you most definitely should perchance not maybe for sure
humble marsh
Thank you, very clear
elder shale
veritable <a:DvaGiggles:683730759579992198> it's def been a while for me now, j...
Veritable is a good word
Veerriiiitaaableeee
It's like the word
scrumptious or succulent
Very satisfying to say
Or I'm a bit insane at this point, who can say
humble marsh
You are, but so is everyone else here
elder shale
That's the spirit
limber fractal
Veritable is a good word
it's a v word so yes, it's very valuable
elder shale
Bruh
teal raptor
word bad
mint spear
elder shale
https://tenor.com/view/not-great-gregory-dillard-the-outlaws-not-good-bad-gif-26...
You laughed
I know this
dry bison
You want him to fall out?
limber fractal
<@357610080235028510> the stages of Murphy
lol that's hilarious. does he ever roll out fully while still asleep?
as in, does he just keep sleeping? or fixes his position?
limber fractal
if there's reincarnation, i wanna return as Murphy. dude lives the life
edgy egret
But yes, although him being completely on his back is rare as he usually wakes up before then
That's why I cheat sometimes with his funny spot lol
Trying not to cheat this time
limber fractal
That's why I cheat sometimes with his funny spot lol
hahaha i love how you do that. and that never bothers him?
edgy egret
Nah
deft girder
I definitely want to get a cat at some point but I’m just afraid it’ll hate me lol
edgy egret
Half the time he just goes back sleep
deft girder
Not that there’s anything wrong with me I’m completely perfect
deft girder
It’s just that cats are cats
elder shale
Cats are loving creatures
edgy egret
He likes his belly rubbed so I'm not necessarily bothering him
elder shale
Common misconception
deft girder
Cats are loving creatures
They aren’t immediately like a lot of dogs
edgy egret
I don't like physically force him on his back; I scratch right above his leg and he rolls over lol
deft girder
It requires effort. Dogs are cheating
dry bison
Remember when cats were dogs
deft girder
Like evolution?
edgy egret
They aren’t immediately like a lot of dogs
If you're looking for a cat that acts like a dog, you gotta get a maine coon or something like it
deft girder
Nah I don’t mean that I want a dog-like cat
I’m just saying that dogs a lot of the time are affectionate most of the time and cats aren’t which is true for most other animals
edgy egret
I’m just saying that dogs a lot of the time are affectionate most of the time an...
Bruh
dry bison
Just get a goat and stop pretending you want anything else
edgy egret
You must be new lol
deft girder
Nvm I guess I shouldnt have spoken
dry bison
If goats didn't headbutt they'd be great
edgy egret
@deft girder Murphy isn't like how you describe cats lol
I can pet him anywhere and as long as I want; he doesn't get mad
deft girder
There’s a lot of goats in my area. Half and half for livestock and pets
edgy egret
And he hangs out with me every day
@limber fractal getting there lol
One paw up
Leg should join soon
It's getting harder to resist petting him and ruining it
deft girder
Is that a blanket on a bed?
elder shale
<@357610080235028510> getting there lol
deft girder
cta
edgy egret
https://tenor.com/view/leokwak-belly-rub-cat-scritchyscratch-gif-19970479
Your cat?
edgy egret
Oh ok
elder shale
Want to get a kitty this year.
when i get my raise in April
mayhaps I'll consider it
even
lime sand
Hey, bit of an ongoing argument. Should glitches be patched as soon as they are found?
Continuation of should the refiner dupe be patched
eternal thorn
Code gonna let a cat choose him
elder shale
Continuation of should the refiner dupe be patched
Er, looking for #no-mans-sky - potentially #nms-questions, friend.
Short answer: yes*. Long answer: it's complicated.
*but it's complicated
deft girder
Mjolnir, of course
lime sand
Er, looking for <#212051634790858754> - potentially <#471868642204712971>, frien...
Not really... Basically it stems from the speedrunning community as well. Some players are disgusted at using "unintended" ways to play the game
elder shale
Yea, pretty typical.
Loud minority, people should play however they want to 
But anyway, yea.
eternal thorn
Not really... Basically it stems from the speedrunning community as well. Some p...
Some players don't realize that it's also not hurting them
deft girder
Reloading a save isn’t exactly intended play but it’s how many people get S class ships and freighters
It’s just up to interpretation
dry bison
It’s just up to interpretation
It's really not
eternal thorn
It's like the whole of time traveling in Animal Crossing. A chunk of players think its cheating, I think its just how some people want to play the game.
dry bison
Intended play is whatever you play.
Imagine being told you can't play with legos and mega blocks together because of pearl clutching
"Legos are not intended play with mega blocks!"
I intend to play with whatever I wanna
However I wanna
eternal thorn
Knex weren't supposed to be used with Bionicle but that didn't stop me
dry bison
I just think it's silly to protect artistic expression by restricting artistic expression.
opaque tartan
I intend to play with whatever I wanna
Quit playing games with my heart
eternal thorn
Far as I'm concerned, if how someone wants to play doesn't come at the expense of someone else, then there's no issue
dry bison
Or worse, telling people they're only entitled to feel one way about a thing
So you reload your save and save skim to your hearts content.
I think that's the term used
save skimming?
deft girder
Sounds about right
dry bison
Save scumming?
eternal thorn
I should probably find something to satisfy Nate
Since he's likes beating a dead horse over me not posting 80s music
opaque tartan
Nah, after seeing you mixed Knex with Bionicle I don't know how to feel about you anymore
dry bison
Oh wait that's backstreet boys
eternal thorn
Nah he's a Backstreet Boys guy
opaque tartan
Mumbles is still cool
opaque tartan
Nah he's a Backstreet Boys guy
Awww shiiiet you know me too well
dry bison
I was okay with the backstreet boys until I saw that carter brother's offshoot production getting shit on by the carter boy band member
Then I hated carter
dry bison
I watched one episode where the older carter brother was legit physically abusing his younger brother
Was not cool at all
He was already psychologically abusing the kid
opaque tartan
https://youtu.be/tkXNEmtf9tk <@366744187481096203>
This is a good reason to join the server
eternal thorn
Not every server has people posting 80s music
dry bison
I'm kinda into the postmodern jukebox's covers
opaque tartan
Then I hated carter
Nick Carter was a heartthrob for all the most basic girls I went to school with
dry bison
opaque tartan
Not every server has people posting 80s music
Some servers are just lame
eternal thorn
Nick Carter?
You've reminded me that Aaron Carter was a thing.
livid pendant
Not really... Basically it stems from the speedrunning community as well. Some p...
It’s kinda funny how you ask a question and then immediately shut down someone who gives an answer you don’t want
opaque tartan
In the same way there was another Olsen sister
dry bison
I kinda feel like I have a super power cheat code for finding new shit on youtube once I learned how to use the algorithm to parse out different genres and then view them in order of release date.
Listening to shit you like, make sure you're signed in. Top right, above the lineup of videos on the right side is a tiny arrow pointing right, click it till you see "Recently uploaded"
opaque tartan
It’s kinda funny how you ask a question and then immediately shut down someone w...
Why bother with anyone that doesn't pay for your games or your bills
dry bison
It displays similar shit but newer released stuff
eternal thorn
YouTube ads tried to show me AI generated hentai today. I cannot understand their algorithm.
opaque tartan
Listening to shit you like, make sure you're signed in. Top right, above the lin...
You been using YT Music or just YT?
dry bison
Just youtube.
eternal thorn
I pay for Spotify, can't fit in another music service
opaque tartan
It's free
eternal thorn
That, and not allowed to use YouTube at work
opaque tartan
Booo
opaque tartan
I bet Ceryn can, he splits his heart between Moon and cats
dry bison
Nah he doesn't. Moon sides with the cats
eternal thorn
Bold of you to assume my heart is split between the two
dry bison
It's an easy compromise
opaque tartan
Got me there
opaque tartan
If he was a cat that eye thing would have been removed by an affectionate owner
eternal thorn
dry bison
Magical man cat
opaque tartan
Cat Man Do
dry bison
Learn something new every day
opaque tartan
Twist is that Cat Man Never Do Anything
dry bison
Catmando was a cat who was named "joint leader" of Britain's Official Monster Raving Loony Party from 1999 to 2002
opaque tartan
> Catmando was a cat who was named "joint leader" of Britain's Official Monster ...
My chosen party
Told you about Buckethead and Binface
dry bison
He had a fancy hat and everything
fathom crest
opaque tartan
deft girder
https://i.imgur.com/k4cmuwW.jpg
Is it just me or does that look unnecessary wide?
deft girder
> Catmando was a cat who was named "joint leader" of Britain's Official Monster ...
You see that on the “List of Individual Cats” Wikipedia page?