My collection is somewhat frozen since moving house, twice
#UKRS2 in NML Dev Thread
neat vessel
snow carbon
Thinking of including a MR 483 Class/LMS 2P Class, but visually it would probably be pretty much identical to the City Class, which already uses the sprite of the Edwardian...
neat vessel
I would say that unless there is a significant tractive effort or speed etc difference, then really you can use one for the other. Same as how in Timberwolfs set, I use the Stirling Single to represent the later GWR singles (the rebuilt Iron Dukes/Rover Class), and the Midland Spinner to represent the GER Holden Singles and GWR Dean Singles from the same time period
So, no need for both, as players can use the same engine for both
Same as how with the original UKRS, i'd use Gresley A1s/A3s as stand ins for LMS Princess Royals
(and one of the reasons I submitted my Royal Scot to that set 🙂 although the LSWR/SR King Arthur was pretty close)
void roost
Yeah there’s a ton of crossover during the grouping era especially - most regions had engines equivalent to each other
Or at least more or less equivalent
Similar to how there were 10 million 4-4-0s in pre grouping that all did basically the same thing
neat vessel
Oh so many, the LNER had what, 50 classes of 4-4-0 alone
(up to D49, and that's not including those that were never classified by the LNER)
snow carbon
Mmm, I'm more about visual distinction stuff, even if statistically stuff is very similar
Even though at finescale it is... difficult to depict certain differences
But there's at least a noticeable enough difference visually between an LNER D49 (Shire) and, say, an LMS P2 (which would basically be identical to the current 4-4-0 Edwardian)
neat vessel
I believe there would be significant statistical differences between them too
snow carbon
probably, I'm admittedly not knowledgable enough for figuring that out
neat vessel
But between say, an LMS 3F Jinty and an LNER J69, not a great deal at all
snow carbon
-# speaking of I still have some tank engines I want to consider getting my hands on
My networks in OpenTTD tend to be small and compact with short trains so I run a lot of tank engines over tender engines, and small tender engines over big ones
neat vessel
So, other than if you wanted to model something with funky differences (like the slopey side tanks of the J50), most pre-grouping 0-6-0Ts can be a single model for example
snow carbon
Hence my interest in the smaller tank engines over the big express engines
tawny oar
TBH i know jack shit about anything pre grouping
neat vessel
The smaller engines are what run a network anyway 🙂 yes the Pacifics get the glory, but the 0-6-0s do the work
snow carbon
so many of the tank engines are just the Suburban bodged into slight differences. I do love the Prairie visually though. I hate my bodge for the Coal Tank
neat vessel
But there's at least a noticeable enough difference visually between an LNER D49...
In this case, the 2P has 17,730 lbf of tractive effort, and the D49 Shire has 21,556 lbf (considered a 4P by BR)
so yes, quite significant statistical differences in addition to physical
tawny oar
what is the coal tank exactly?
neat vessel
what is the coal tank exactly?
LNWR 0-6-2
snow carbon
tawny oar
then what's the pitworker?
neat vessel
I was going to say, the Pitworker is the Welsh lines one
tawny oar
gotcha
snow carbon
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zmXW8abCnygxxkaZ8z1WbdCVJIEtjntyDnAckTOFzqc/edit?usp=sharing
I have a note by every locomotive saying what it's based on, where applicable
tawny oar
anyways, hand over the sprites for the coal tank and i'll see what i can do
neat vessel
This, before the GWR got their hands on them
I dare say one or tuther can also represent the GNR N2
snow carbon
the coal tank and the goods II should look rather similar since like. The former is the tank version of the latter
snow carbon
yeah because I'm crap at drawing 
tawny oar
can you put the 14xx sprites up?
snow carbon
I need to do a re-review of the locomotives in the set soon
neat vessel
Actually, the 0-6-2T Welsh is the Taff Vale one, so, the Pitworker is the rebuild? or the N2?
I'll look at the spreadsheet 😄
snow carbon
can you put the 14xx sprites up?
tawny oar
thank you
snow carbon
Currently what I'm trying to work on a bit is passenger wagon capacities
I'm using UKRS2 defaults and I find it difficult to justify upgrading Clerestories to proper passenger carriages. Also throwing in a shorter version of the Passenger Carriage
neat vessel
Timberwolf has modern(ish, LNWR period) carriages have a higher max speed than Clerestory carriages. I find this means I upgrade my fastests expresses, but the clerestory ones linger on with locals etc, as they did in reality
(not sure when the last clerestory carriages were withdrawn, I would assume either early BR period or some time before, given gas lighting, wooden construction etc being unsafe by the 1940s, but the war meaning they lingered on)
oblique hound
Yeah, slightly higher speed and capacity all round, we didn't switch to standard/modern carriages until around the War, iirc
tawny oar
here's what i've got for the coal tank so far:
neat vessel
Per a quick google, apparently some Dean (1890s) period Clerestory Carriages lasted on the GWR until around 1950, so, yeah not far off
"All first class coaches were condemned by the end of 1948. The last 3rd class coach was condemned in 1955, but most only lasted until 1950 at best"
snow carbon
I've already done one round of adjustments on the clerestories, but especially with the Clerestory Suburban there was a difference of like, 5 passengers and 10mph with the improved coaches
snow carbon
here's what i've got for the coal tank so far:
Yeah that looks a lot better already
neat vessel
They were the biggest fans of them from what I can gather, so other railways were likely rid long before that
oblique hound
I've already done one round of adjustments on the clerestories, but especially w...
Given the incremental gains in engine tech around that time that does make sense tho
A slow and measured rise where the best stock only lands on new and/or important routes
neat vessel
Perhaps again a difference in cargo rates or some such? It's a shame that carriage age isn't a thing, so that old carriages (or even wagons) would mean lower payments, quicker decay etc
snow carbon
Yeah but the problem is also that Clerestory Coaches are shorter. I've found myself in a situation where building new MUs or making a more "modern" train actually gave me less capacity than just sticking with my old Clerestory Coaches
oblique hound
It would give a good incentive to standardise around the BR MK1 carriage
neat vessel
Can rolling stock be given a maintenance cost?
tawny oar
Yeah but the problem is also that Clerestory Coaches are shorter. I've found mys...
that's actually not unusual
snow carbon
Keeping them around is fine, of course, but it shouldn't be so bad where building newer coaches for a newer train is actually worse, imo
oblique hound
The difference is that MUs are more comfortable and/or faster
And generally much more efficient
neat vessel
that's actually not unusual
Older DMUs often have more seating than newer, they're just cramped
snow carbon
Passenger Comfort isn't really easy to model, unfortunately
oblique hound
Good acceleration and better cost-economy
tawny oar
MUs trade capacity for train throughput
neat vessel
Aye, or safety
oblique hound
Passenger Comfort isn't really easy to model, unfortunately
Payment rate penalties maybe?
So some MUs decay faster over longer distances?
I know cargo payment decay is a contentious topic, but I've always liked the concept
snow carbon
There's a lot of stuff already out there about how it doesn't really- yeah
neat vessel
"Government demands that all pre-1920s stock be retired on safety grounds" etc, I guess you could just make the older carriage types unavailable sooner than they really should be
So, for example, you can't build any new clerestory coaches after say 1920, but, the ones you have of course can continue
oblique hound
"Government demands that all pre-1920s stock be retired on safety grounds" etc, ...
Yeah, this could work. Just make them unavailable so the old stock sticks around but otherwise you have to upgrade
You'd end up shuffling Clerestories out to smaller lines
tawny oar
So, for example, you can't build any new clerestory coaches after say 1920, but,...
what about those who play with vehicles never expire turned on? (such as myself)
neat vessel
As we know railways kept the older stock until nationalisation, but they didn't build any new ones
snow carbon
nodnods
neat vessel
well then they're unlikely to be bothered by pesky things like realism 😛
snow carbon
Regardless I feel like the numbers overall could do some upgrades in terms of capacity
oblique hound
what about those who play with vehicles never expire turned on? (such as myself)
Then you get to keep the most efficient options of each era
neat vessel
Regardless I feel like the numbers overall could do some upgrades in terms of ca...
Speed is also a factor to consider. Clerestories could be quite limited on speed to represent their "normal" usage, rather than the record breakers that were not the norm
tawny oar
in other news, now presenting the re-worked coal tank:
oblique hound
Could possibly make them unable to run on newer track types!
Which is somewhat realistic from a safety perspective
tawny oar
i think simply capping the clerestory speed limit is the best option
oblique hound
That way you'd have to stick to older lines
snow carbon
Could possibly make them unable to run on newer track types!
That would require a trackset to go along with it
oblique hound
Oh true 🙁
oblique hound
in other news, now presenting the re-worked coal tank:
Lookin snazzy!
neat vessel
Ideally rolling stock would be like locomotives in that they have lifespans and maintenance costs, which increase significantly past their lifespan, but alas not sure its doable
tawny oar
Ideally rolling stock would be like locomotives in that they have lifespans and ...
that's just reliability, already a thing in base-game
snow carbon
that's just reliability, already a thing in base-game
for Locomotives, not wagons
tawny oar
oh
snow carbon
I can probably make running cost go up by time
oblique hound
It'd take a lot of doing on the coding side, that's for cert
snow carbon
But I also subscribe to Andy's theory of "The only true currency in OpenTTD is tiles". It's easy for money to become a non-object, but adjusting prices in general is something I need to do at some point
It's just annoying to tweak
oblique hound
Honestly yeah, no matter how you set up a game, eventually money becomes a meaningless resource
neat vessel
Perhaps then, with money not a thing, locomotives and carriage types could be more linked. So for example, no Deltics pulling Clerestories
snow carbon
Badges will make something like that more feasible
I'm not a huge fan of it, mind, but it's possible
I'll see how things go once I've adjusted speeds and capacities overall, though
tawny oar
i'd advise against it personally
neat vessel
Same, hard limits are a bit annoying, but if all else fails
tawny oar
look at the yogscast jingle jams
Duncan very frequently put clerestories behind pacifics when they used UKRS2
WAIT HANG ON
VACUUM VS AIR BRAKES!
oblique hound
!!OoO!!
neat vessel
Pacifics hauling them not a problem, but yeah there's going to be more egregious examples (as I said, Deltics) that could be limited if need be
snow carbon
Default UKRS2 stats has the Clerestory being 20mph slower and 5 capacity less than the default standard carriage, but with the same loading time
tawny oar
steam locos mostly (a few exceptions like the pacific and streak, for railtours) have vacuum brakes while most diesels (excluding early ones which have both) have air brakes
neat vessel
Aye, but its the crossover period in the middle that will be either inaccurate, annoying, or both
oblique hound
Just like in real life!
tawny oar
^
tawny oar
at least I didn't bring up heating systems XD
neat vessel
or different multiple working systems 😛
"Sorry these diesels can't couple and work together because...reasons"
snow carbon
Once badges roll around, I could put stuff like that in as a parameter the realists and masochists can turn on if they want it
tawny oar
btw can we put descriptions in the shop for the trains?
i wanna put a description on the pacific that reads "works best with the standard carriage DUNCAN"
snow carbon
Pffft
tawny oar
XD
snow carbon
I mean yeah, purchase menu descriptions are a thing
tawny oar
excellent
neat vessel
Handy for saying what locos are intended for what duties
as even a nerd like me forgets
tawny oar
that's already a thing in the old UKRS2
neat vessel
Ah, yes, sorry been playing other sets too long 😄
snow carbon
in other news, now presenting the re-worked coal tank:
Slight issue with it is that you've made it an 0-6-0, but that's easy to adjust and a very minor detail that's hard to see
snow carbon
Oh, no now I see it yeah
tawny oar
the 2 is buried under the foot steps for the cab
snow carbon
It's the same size as the other wheels so I didn't notice it
Does make it look kinda 0-8-0 ish so I'll probably adjust this pixel slightlty
tawny oar
i think that was unintended
i literally tore the back off the 14xx and pasted it on top
so from the cab wall back is literally straight from the 14xx
snow carbon
Yeah, but the 14xx uses different driving wheels
tawny oar
which were left behind
snow carbon
tawny oar
that works i suppose
neat vessel
Actually it should kind of look 0-8-0 ish, from the odd wheel spacing and the rather large (in comparison to driving wheels) rear trailing wheels
At OTTD scale it will look more like an oddly proportioned 0-8-0
tawny oar
true, but i didn't fancy trying to make it look that way
whereas i knew for a fact using the 14xx cab and bunker would hammer home that it's a 0-6-2
neat vessel
Fair point 🙂
knotty marsh
## VACUUM VS AIR BRAKES!
Welcome to "bad mechanics" area
knotty marsh
so many of the tank engines are just the Suburban bodged into slight differences...
I think this tank engine selection is pretty comprehensive and representative already
latent quail
Needs a decapod
snow carbon
I think this tank engine selection is pretty comprehensive and representative al...
Probably yeah. Just might want to do some sprite adjustments, but idk.
Currently a lot of the larger tank engines use the Suburban as the base. Personally I prefer the visuals of the Prairie, but physically they're all kind of similar, so it's hard to justify using one as the base over the other.
Also yes I do kinda want a Decapod. Maybe a non-saddle 0-4-0 (MR 1528?). Might want to adjust the sprite currently given to the USA Tank, too, move the tanks forward a little.
knotty marsh
Reminds me, I should reserve an ID for a Beattie Well Tank
snow carbon
I have it on my "Do Want" list
snow carbon
Family!
From top to bottom:
- My 2CC version of the Freight loco
- The old full-black Freight
- A smaller 4-4-0 based upon my 2CC Freight
- The Edwardian, which served as the basis for the smaller 4-4-0 and the 2CC Freight
- The City Class, which is just an Edwardian with a different tender
Also my attempt at forcing a Claughton (Top) and a Royal Scot (Bottom) together into a Patriot (Mid)
tawny oar
so i was digging around in my repaints folder, and found these
my old R1 4-8-2 project
and the streamlined version
neat vessel
That Royal Scot was already my cut and paste work of bits of the Jubilee over the King Arthur 🙂
snow carbon
I think the Claughton was also a custom for this set, rather than an UKRS2 default
latent quail
UKRS2 scale does impair the number of pixels a bit
I think it's only 1px height difference to Horse
yeah 11px vs 12px
it just gives a bit more freedom with running plate / boiler / cabside
that said, this fake Stanier 2-8-2 neeeded several complete repaints to look right
tawny oar
we're good at making it work though
also i like the fact UKRS is a pixel shorter
IRL UK trains are shorter
signal pulsar
I've always liked the UKRS2 art style
elfin sparrow
its good for making the trains seem less fat
proportionally more like sbb stuff, which i like
tawny oar
what do we have for hoppers BTW?
i wanna make one of these if we don't already have it
snow carbon
what do we have for hoppers BTW?
The set is low on wagons
snow carbon
This is what we got
snow carbon
6 Wheel open is fictional I'm pretty sure, the Covered Hopper was in the baseset
tawny oar
do you have documentation on what the covered hopper is?
also pass the sprites for this please
snow carbon
do you have documentation on what the covered hopper is?
There is no documentation for the specific wagons
neat vessel
6 Wheel open is fictional I'm pretty sure, the Covered Hopper was in the baseset
Some were made for narrow gauge railways it seems, which this is based on
latent quail
This is what we got
Lol a bunch of those are “my first train sprites” that I sent to pikka 😀
You might look at Horse NG for sprites to steal
these would get you BR standard covhops
just change the chassis
oxygen / chlorine tankers
loads more options
the Horse NG wagons I usually make by dropping the standard gauge version 1px and tweaking
snow carbon
I've already joinked a few sprites from NG-Horse
Just haven't gotten around to stealing more of 'em yet
The Slag Ladle, Ingot Carrier and Torpedo Wagons are from horse
Today's work:
- Finally made the Terrier actually use its sprite
- Added an 0-4-0 Side Tank as an alternate to the 0-4-0 Saddle Tank
- Tweaked the USA Tank's sprite to be a slightly modified Jinty
- Added a smaller 1928 4-4-0. Meant to represent the LMS P2, it's actually a bit on the shorter side
- Added the Patriot
- The old 4th Goods Engine now uses the sprite of the Freight
- The Freight is now slightly bigger
- Added a shortened version of the Passenger Carriage
Oh and I included the new Coal Tank sprite
And made some adjustments to passenger wagon capacities
neat vessel
Looking good
void roost
UKRS2 scale does impair the number of pixels a bit
Yeah I find the extra pixel of height makes a big difference in some situations. There are liveries that are almost impossible without it
snow carbon
Might be worth cutting the lid off too for an ore wagon of some kind
tawny oar
presflows weren't used for ores
powdered cargos only
such as cement
anyways colours are done
snow carbon
I mean in the sense that it looks like it could be modified into one of these
tawny oar
i guess?
neat vessel
Oddly I recall Tri-ang making Presflows by sticking a cover on an ore hopper 😄
Well, Grain hoppers from Ore hoppers
snow carbon
Might steal the side-door hoppers from NG Horse to make these
tawny oar
we have those already
neat vessel
I know, I was just musing that "presflows weren't used for ore" when triang went "hold my beer"
tawny oar
tbh i only know presflos as cement wagosn due to all of the ones i've seen having C E M E N T written on the sides
or painted yellow with giant BLUE CIRCLE logos bolted on the sides
there was a sub-class of presflo used to ash from power stations though
neat vessel
I remember them as, what was the stuff, sodium something. White powder anyway
snow carbon
Ore Hoppers, courtesy of Iron Horse
I don't know exactly when the LMS 40T Hoppers came into service, so any help on that would be appreciated
neat vessel
That could be it aye. One of the many weird "other" cargos you used to see trundled about.
If memory serves Fairy, they were just pre-war, late 30s. But I will inquire
I stand corrected.
"LMS 40 ton Bogie Hoppers that were once used on the Toton-Stonebridge Park working. They were built by BRCW in 1929 to LMS diagram D1708 as lot no. 457 and were numbered 189301-189330 later carrying the M prefix in BR days"
and used until the late 60s with Class 24s and the sort
(quite surprised as they seem far more modern than 1929)
snow carbon
Many thanks. I need to get my hands on more good resources. Or more resources in general. I've not really got much of a clue as to where to find stuff. Been trying to find if there's any place that lists like, info on the sizes of old goods and passenger trains for example. How many carriages/wagons to what kind of loco
tawny oar
do you mean like how long the trains were/the trains formation?
snow carbon
Yeah
tawny oar
one of the model railway magazines i'm subscribed to does train formation articles every now and then
and i have every issue from right now all the way back to jan 2014
btw did i submitt the standard 2-8-2 already?
snow carbon
Can't check at the moment, not on PC
tawny oar
ok
in other news,
Presflo wagons: completed!
solid CC 1 & 2
CC1 with CC2 roof and reverse
white with CC1 & 2 roof
neat vessel
do you mean like how long the trains were/the trains formation?
That's something i've long been curious about too. ("Is my Pacific supposed to pull 14 carriage expresses?" etc)
tawny oar
it depends on the train in question
E.G. the 'norseman' (a4 pulled) had 9 coaches
but an A4 can pull up to 12 coaches, as depicted in another formation from the same excerpt (mallard on a railtour from york to scarborough in 1986)
here are the formations from the Eastern Region special supplement (found on the magazine website, my IRL copy is currently missing in action)
tawny oar
That's something i've long been curious about too. ("Is my Pacific supposed to p...
checking my midland region supplement shows a britannia on a 13 coach train so 14 is definitely within the abilities
void roost
Almost any steam train could pull 13 coaches, it’s usually more about whether they could hit an acceptable speed or the intended service speed
strange zodiac
Almost any steam train could pull 13 coaches, it’s usually more about whether th...
Tbf even I could probably pull 14 coaches, just not very quickly or for very long
neat vessel
Hence my "is it supposed to" question 😉
tawny oar
i think 9 - 12 is a more accepted number
neat vessel
With Timberwolfs, by the 80s I was running something stupid like 18 Mk.2D expresses
but that did feel excessive
knotty marsh
I think there are records of A4s starting out of Kings Cross with 18 coaches during WW2
tawny oar
i don't count war service
it might have set records, but it damn near killed the engines
snow carbon
here are the formations from the Eastern Region special supplement (found on the...
I usually run smaller services mostly in my games, but it's nice to get a rough idea of like, how many coaches makes up an express versus like, a local branch line train, so this is a nifty resource
snow carbon
here are the formations from the Eastern Region special supplement (found on the...
I'm curious if you have something like this for, say, the GWR or like, a link to where I can dig up this kinda stuff myself
latent quail
There was a 1970s build of side door gravel hoppers used at Lavant http://petertandy.co.uk/electrics/73004_lavant(2)_28489.jpg
snow carbon
@sacred mulch
sacred mulch
Tanks
snow carbon
It's a bug, I know what the cause is, haven't fixed it yet
snow carbon
Sure, though I intend to make another test release this evening when I get home (a few hours from now) that will likely be incompatible
But any feedback you can give would be greatly appreciated
sacred mulch
ill wait till the new one comes out then test it
tawny oar
I'm curious if you have something like this for, say, the GWR or like, a link to...
I do, but not online, only as a physical book and for the BR Western Region, not the GWR
tawny oar
I usually run smaller services mostly in my games, but it's nice to get a rough ...
i also have another article specifically about tank engine formations
knotty marsh
It's a bug, I know what the cause is, haven't fixed it yet
Me and GETS have fixed it btw, do you want the code?
snow carbon
Me and GETS have fixed it btw, do you want the code?
Sure but I think the issue is simply that I don't have the thing for goods specifically, and I was going to fix it by giving goods a Tarp anyway since goods being drawn as a a bulk load like coal would be weird
snow carbon
i also have another article specifically about tank engine formations
Interested in seeing this
knotty marsh
Ahh then yeah, you would need an additional sprite if you'd like that
I was referring more to the "wagon on fire" problem
snow carbon
Yeah that's when it tries to recolour the load sprite but can't find the cargo in the recolour table
tawny oar
Interested in seeing this
Here you go
1 and 2 are the western region supplement
3 and 4 are the tank engine article (the magazine's quite thick so it wasn't able to be flattened very well)
latent quail
nice
snow carbon
anyways colours are done
So what stats should these have? What intro year, weight, max speed and capacity
snow carbon
I stand corrected.
"LMS 40 ton Bogie Hoppers that were once used on the Toton-...
Similarly for this. They're called 40 Ton hoppers, I'm assuming their capacity is 40 tons? Need some help figuring out stats
snow carbon
Currently they're realismish but I want to like... Find some kind of balance later on
I'd like to have an idea for what they'd carry realistically and then build on that
elfin sparrow
Realism is better imo
Idk about what you’ve done but classic ukrs2 carriages have painfully low capacity
signal pulsar
Unless you do realistic stats and end up with something uselessly slow in-game
Sometimes stuff needs a power or capacity boost to be playable
snow carbon
Idk about what you’ve done but classic ukrs2 carriages have painfully low capaci...
I've already boosted passenger wagon capacity
elfin sparrow
Idk about what you’ve done but classic ukrs2 carriages have painfully low capaci...
This and the automatically changing vehicle designs are the worst things about ukrs2
Like
Wtf do you mean i can’t make spam cans anymore
They’re perfect
snow carbon
This and the automatically changing vehicle designs are the worst things about u...
This kind of stuff is what birthed this project, wanting to keep the stuff that automatically went away
elfin sparrow
My photo from Saturday
If you need any more photos from the locomotion museum i can maybe help
snow carbon
Granted it's size exploded in scope from just that, but I think it's fun
latent quail
if you pick realism, you're immune to min-max players
elfin sparrow
Now it is the SBB set for every Central European nation and more
elfin sparrow
if you pick realism, you're immune to min-max players
Also a great bonus
latent quail
the weight diagram book is probably best source
find nearest RL type and extrapolate
snow carbon
the weight diagram book is probably best source
Where an I find it?
latent quail
elfin sparrow
There’s stats available for a handful of vehicles but they’re sparse
snow carbon
Bold to assume I work that out. UKRS2 has some stats and I just pick whatever seems most similar to me and so I end up probably being wildly off
latent quail
snow carbon
Oh I remember that page
elfin sparrow
Bold to assume I work that out. UKRS2 has some stats and I just pick whatever se...
I’ll probably do the same
snow carbon
ill wait till the new one comes out then test it
Another test release. UKFS if you want to run on standard gauge, UKNS if you want to run on Narrow Gauge. Need to figure out how to parameterize this so I'm not endlessly working with 2 versions
latent quail
is it narrow gauge, or finescale?
snow carbon
Finescale, which I find looking nicer on Narrow Gauge tracks, especially when next to sets like Iron Horse
tawny oar
So what stats should these have? What intro year, weight, max speed and capacity
intro year: 1954
max speed: N/A
capacity: 17,300L
neat vessel
Similarly for this. They're called 40 Ton hoppers, I'm assuming their capacity i...
"hoppers were 40 ton capacity with a tare weight of 18-19 tons and vacuum braked to enable them to run quickly between the colliery and power station"
So, weight empty would be 20 tons, 40 ton capacity, so, 60 ton fully loaded.
(to round it and make the maths easy)
and I'd say, given the vacuum brakes and such, a fairly high (for the time period) speed limit
Perhaps around 50mph?
I doubt there would be anything really suitable to pull them at such speeds in the early 30s, but they were used into the late 1960s, and by then the early diesels certainly would have the speed and grunt to pull them at 50
elfin sparrow
tawny oar
that was my bad
posted a gif when i didn't mean to when i was replying to your post about spamcans
elfin sparrow
Ooo
snow carbon
intro year: 1954
max speed: N/A
capacity: 17,300L
Also what should it be called since there's also another wagon named the Presflo Hopper, idk which of them is more deserving of the name
snow carbon
PCA-V Cement Wagon
As in that should be the name for yours, or for the other thing?
tawny oar
the other thing
snow carbon
Sure
tawny oar
annoyingly they don't have a wikipedia article
Found it!
Weight : 51 t GLW / 13.1 t Tare
void roost
Another test release. UKFS if you want to run on standard gauge, UKNS if you wan...
Why not just allow the trains to run on both, and let the user decide?
snow carbon
Why not just allow the trains to run on both, and let the user decide?
Three reasons:
- Because wagons only care about the locomotive. If I do that people will inevitably use it to pull IH Standard Gauge on JP Narrow gauge
- Clutters the purchase list too much by having the UK stuff on either set of tracks
- No idea if it would cause track compatibility weirdness
elfin sparrow
Could it be a param?
snow carbon
That's what I'm hoping to do, param between NG and SG, just need to figure out how
elfin sparrow
It would be the best option imo
snow carbon
Just would need to see how
snow carbon
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3528257682&searchtext=
Also tempted to throw in these
neat vessel
Class 49 "Super Badger"
and a IC125 "B" Unit is...a curious idea. Can't think where you'd need three powercars but hey 😄
strange zodiac
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3528257682&searchtext=
Al...
Thats the kind of cursed thing I'd include in one of my sets
tawny oar
reminder about the Abomination
tawny oar
also made an unsuccesful start at trying to 2CC the 0-8-0 Mineral
uhh, didn't i submit that already?
[IMAGE REMOVED]
tawny oar
and the rebuilt version
tawny oar
uhh, didn't i submit that already?
[IMAGE REMOVED]
updated version
knotty marsh
Similarly for this. They're called 40 Ton hoppers, I'm assuming their capacity i...
Yes, 40tons capacity, 18 tons 5cwt tare
knotty marsh
How does anyone work out power for steam locomotives
How convenient you ask cause I have a formula for the BR power ranges
my middle name is "I have a formula/code for that"
elfin sparrow
How convenient you ask cause I have a formula for the BR power ranges
Hm?
knotty marsh
Check DMs
knotty marsh
Do you see the line with "Power class, year, averaged power, resultant power"?
You plug in the power class and year, and it will look at the table, and get the averaged power, and apply a modifier (-200 to +150 iirc) based on construction year, rounded to 5/10
elfin sparrow
You plug in the power class and year, and it will look at the table, and get the...
I’m still not really understanding it
knotty marsh
I'll explain to you via DMs later
Im outside right now on an exciting journey to take random JR West trains
elfin sparrow
I'll explain to you via DMs later
Good luck
I’ll write back when I’m awake, sleeping soon
snow carbon
updated version
Oh excellent, thanks
That leaves just the Banker as the sole loco in the set that doesn't get liveries
snow carbon
Made some formations :D
latent quail
me too! https://grf.farm/iron-horse/3.37.0/html/train_whack.html?sprite_size_factor=2&boring_mode=true
Cornish?
French
North American!
perfection
snow carbon
perfection
Fantastic
latent quail
it's how the class 89 got added
there's a dual-cab 91 somewhere also
the HST B unit is a bold move though
would suit DVTs 😛
like a diesel APT
would go well
snow carbon
It would, yeah
I've already got class 24/37/44 A-B units in my set, I like cursed stuff like this
latent quail
I ran out of IDs 😛
snow carbon
I need better class names and like... Nicknames for them, though
snow carbon
Can't be much worse than the nicknames i come up with, to be fair
The class 24 is a Rat, so the A-B unit is a Mouse
The class 37 is a Tractor, so the A-B unit is Combine (this is the weakest one)
The class 44 is a Peak, so the A-B unit is Avalanche
latent quail
I see no problems
snow carbon
These need nicer names too. And they need to be included. They're based on a German loco and the JNR EH10 respectively
latent quail
one day Ibex 😐
snow carbon
Ibex!
latent quail
snow carbon
Finescale Horse when :p
tawny oar
Made some formations :D
Why are there so many buffet cars in the pullman train? You only need one.
snow carbon
Because one of the things you posted listed a lot of Pullman Kitchen wagons for some reason
So I used Buffets for that
snow carbon
here are the formations from the Eastern Region special supplement (found on the...
This one specifically I think
tawny oar
That's how pullmans worked IRL, kitchen and parlour cars were paired up, technically the "buffet car" was actually a bar car
snow carbon
nods
tawny oar
Basically a pullman train is one gigantic dining car with multiple kitchens, because carrying a plate of hot food in a train doing 70 mph ain't easy
snow carbon
Yeah that's valid, but then I'd argue my placement of buffer cars is accurate to represent the kitchens, too. But yeah it's mostly just to get a feel for how long it'd be in OpenTTD
And yeah turns out a 7-length station is about as big as you'll need with realistic passenger consists
tawny oar
I can make a specific pullman kitchen car if you want (when I get home from work)
snow carbon
Sure
I don't think we can do too much with representing specific wagon types at this scale though
Especially since I also don't think there's much mechanical value, just flavor
tawny oar
Oh it would be pure flavour, mechanical wise a kitchen and parlour would do the same job, with the buffet/bar car doing the actual work (like in iron horse)
All that would happen is every second pullman coach placed In a train would become a kitchen car
snow carbon
As much as I like the idea of also having the different type of like. First class/second class corridor/open differences for carriages it's not possible on this scale not impactful enough mechanically
tawny oar
yeah i'm not making those either
snow carbon
Does anyone have any sources for realistic capacities for passenger wagons? Especially for the earlier ones
tawny oar
define earlier
simplest solution is to look at models of the closest thing there is, and count the seats
knotty marsh
Does anyone have any sources for realistic capacities for passenger wagons? Espe...
Try here
snow carbon
Found this laying around. GNR H4/LNER K3 so now have a second mogul
The Mineral now has 2CC
latent quail
Found this laying around. GNR H4/LNER K3 so now have a second mogul
quite boss
snow carbon
@tawny oar has made some very good sprites yes
snow carbon
Made some formations :D
Suburban Carriages to go with shorter formations, while the old shorter passenger carriages have been moved to be children of the regular passenger carriage instead
It's mainly an aesthetic thing. The shorter coaches have lower capacity, but the suburban carriages don't draw gangways
snow carbon
:D
knotty marsh
Looking really good
neat vessel
The class 24 is a Rat, so the A-B unit is a Mouse
The class 37 is a Tractor, so ...
Tractor and Trailer?
tawny oar
:D
question, does that pacific 2 (green one above the streak) just happen to be the one with smoke deflectors?
snow carbon
Yeah
snow carbon
as i am 100% certain i sent the version without smoke deflectors too
Yes and that's included too
I just happened to choose the one with deflectors here
tawny oar
👍
dire iris
Found this laying around. GNR H4/LNER K3 so now have a second mogul
wow, im so proud, an engine named after me, I could cry.
tawny oar
Sure
pullman kitchen car
ideally the programming would automatically swap every second pullman coach for a kitchen car
so it would go parlour, kitchen, parlour, kitchen, ETC
in the shop there would only be the one pullman coach
void roost
Just check the ID of the previous coach, if it’s a parlour then change the current sprite to the kitchen sprite
Oh sorry, didn’t realise you were making a suggestion rather than asking how to do it
tawny oar
i've got 2 variations of this for your inspection
the 4 sprites on the left are variant A
the 4 on the right are variant B
open door versions are also available
tawny oar
This is what we got
btw we already have a sort of 6 wheel covered van
tawny oar
btw we already have a sort of 6 wheel covered van
that said, converting it was actually quite simple:
(larger res for easier viewing)
tawny oar
and a van version of that large livestock wagon
(larger res)
once these are approved i'll get the other colours made up
and get the "private owner" variants done as well
snow carbon
tawny oar
what does the yellow lightning symbol mean?
snow carbon
3rd Rail
tawny oar
ah
snow carbon
Blue is Overhead, Yellow is 3rd Rail, both is... well, both
tawny oar
i've got 2 variations of this for your inspection
btw which version of this do you like?
latent quail
badgers
latent quail
UK flags? 😛
snow carbon
I have flag/GB set but I'm not providing them
neat vessel
I wonder if a diesel smoke symbol but in blue would work for the GT3 and other gas turbines
snow carbon
I yoink'd the Turbine icon from 2CC, just wasn't included in the previous image that showed the GT3
neat vessel
Ooh nice
snow carbon
What other badges might be neat to have
I can use them for mechanics of course but for like, info and sorting...
Or aesthetic stuff
One thing that came to mind is "company" and "livery" badges
So you can sort on what company historically operated what, maybe
latent quail
both of those were considered by Peter
I'll see if I can find the repo
operator
livery
elfin sparrow
do you guys have any idea when you'd do a stable release?
or i guess more importantly, if i was to get a file from you guys, would it be considered a stable release or would there be a big risk of IDs changing, etc?
sorry if this has been asked a bunch, which it no doubt has, i couldnt find a result
snow carbon
do you guys have any idea when you'd do a stable release?
or i guess more impor...
Doesn't get asked often, actually. The main bottleneck for "decreasing risk of IDs changing" is liveries, which eat up an extra slot of ID unless I make the buffer between vehicles big enough.
elfin sparrow
Doesn't get asked often, actually. The main bottleneck for "decreasing risk of I...
does ID order matter?
i mean, at least in my set, i can dictate where vehicles appear within the purchase order and move them around at will without causing issues
snow carbon
It's not about the purchase list, no
It's just that my program I wrote to make .pnml for me does not support giving variants IDs out-of-sequence
If i wanted to do that I'd need to massively overhaul both my program and the way I keep data to turn into code, and especially the latter would be awful to do
elfin sparrow
fair enough, if you ever feel like it you're welcome to steal the code from my set, it means you never have to think about IDs, its liberating
honestly you can steal whatever from me, i like what you're doing
snow carbon
I mean, you do need to think of IDs, if you don't have them pre-defined, they'll be regenerated when you compile and so cause compatibility issues, I believe?
elfin sparrow
idk, i just draw vehicle, write the vehicle speeds etc, press F5 and watch everything go BRRR
snow carbon
I used to not care about IDs, but then I began caring about trying to avoid updates breaking stuff
elfin sparrow
the only "bad" thing is if i remove a vehicle those IDs still exist, just empty, if i wanted to "clean" this it would cause compatiblity issues, but i don't delete much, more likely ill just make addons if i ever use that many IDs
snow carbon
It's my understanding that if I don't assign an ID for the Jinty, the process of compiling the .grf gives an ID to the Jinty, and if enough changes between compiles, it'll get a different ID, and that'd be awful for once I have a full release as it'd break saves
elfin sparrow
updates dont break stuff unless i remove vehicles
idk how it all works, but it does
snow carbon
Probably someone out there who knows more than both of us
elfin sparrow
ill show you my code
i dont know code, dP and brick wrote most of it, i just make pretty pictures
this is the code for 1 loco that has 3 liveries
adding more is simple and it just reads the common thingy at the top
then i import the vehicles from their personal file to the big generating file
i tell them where to appear in the purchase list
elfin sparrow
yeah
snow carbon
I suppose that might handle IDs differently
elfin sparrow
when i press F5 the only changes it makes to the ID file are if i add a vehicle
if i delete vehicles and then add more stuff, the IDs of the deleted vehicles will remain empty and it will consume more numbers
i do want to refresh my ID list just 1 time, before i do a release, meaning that updates should never break my set, unless i do a big change on how i handle things like multiple units or whatever
the other issue is that for vehicles longer than 9/8 each section takes up 3, not 2 IDs, idk if that is normal, but that wouldnt be much of an issue for you guys
its on the table anyway if you are ever interested, i can only help with this level of stuff though, dP and brick and the people with the code brains
latent quail
Horse allocates IDs in blocks of 10 per base model
but some base models need more due to articulated + variants
managing them automatically is totally possible, but actually a lot of faffy code
snow carbon
its on the table anyway if you are ever interested, i can only help with this le...
I appreciate the offer, but it's unlikely I'll switch unless someone with more code know how can explain some significant benefits, mainly because switching over would require a massive rework of my workflow
snow carbon
I'll see if I can find the repo
Also this is very useful and I'll probably adjust to conform to this more, but maybe with some slight changes. What happens if you two badges within the same group that both have a text string, do the strings get put on the same line or do they take up a new line each
elfin sparrow
dP could, brick could maybe, brick has added some code to the set but dP did most of it and its in his repo i guess
snow carbon
Also this is very useful and I'll probably adjust to conform to this more, but m...
Like, if I combine "role/prototype" and "role/express_passenger", would I get
Role: Prototype, Express Passenger
Or
Role: Prototype
Role: Express Passenger
The only badges not in that I'd consider adding are
Role: Light Passenger, Light Mixed
And something for distinguishing OHLE from 3rd/4th Rail
latent quail
badges on the same group are comma separated in one line
you can't control order or other formatting
snow carbon
nods
snow carbon
If people have 12x12 sprites to differentiate OHLE and 3rd Rail that'd be nice to have
elfin sparrow
If people have 12x12 sprites to differentiate OHLE and 3rd Rail that'd be nice t...
I may do
@snow carbon this may be helpful
snow carbon
Interestingly, the default UKRS2 uses an even different red to my two reds, time to reverse engineer it
snow carbon
I'm inclined to say I like the new UKRS2 Red (Maroon) more than the Crimson, but I'll probably keep in both
neat vessel
The UKRS Red/Maroon is Carmine (as in Carmine and Cream, "Blood and Custards") and the Crimson is LMS Crimson Lake, IMHO
snow carbon
Mmmm, that's roughly how I have it as now, yes
neat vessel
I love both though 🙂
Also, not related strictly but, saw this. Figured you'd appreciate it (what with the franken-HST the other day)
An experimental "Mk.I Replacement Coach". I.e Mk.Is rebodied with Leyland National parts. Unsurprisingly, not popular!
tawny oar
so that's the mythical middle pacer coach
snow carbon
I think I'm roughly at the point in development where I should start looking into incorporating the remaining UKRS2 Liveries I don't yet have, generally for non-steam locomotives. Going to be pain to track down, though, especially if stuff has liveries for special situations
void roost
An experimental "Mk.I Replacement Coach". I.e Mk.Is rebodied with Leyland Nation...
Mk1 pacer edition
neat vessel
BR in the 70s and 80s decided that cheapest was best, which was a curious concept. It is telling that the Pacer was the best of those programmes
tawny oar
reminder about the double parcels GWR railcar
full osprey
void roost
I’ve just added the 398 to BRTrains, not sure if it would be much use to Fairy (slightly different scale and real world liveries not 2CC) but might be a handy jumping off point for the weird cab shape
void roost
When I have time to finish pissing around with the Mk1 coach rework
cursive robin
I suppose that might handle IDs differently
grf-py allows to use string IDs that, once used are automatically assigned integer ids and saved in a special file so they never change.
snow carbon
@signal pulsar are you running FIRS 5 or 4, and any other trainsets?
signal pulsar
I just tested it quickly here by loading it into my current scenario, so yeah it's FIRS 5 Steeltown, JP+ and a bunch of other stuff. Now I remember that FIRS 5 messed with some stuff that I had to fix on my end so it's probably that.
Gimme a sec and I'll try again with a clean save
snow carbon
Yeah, try FIRS4 as well
signal pulsar
I'm not sure if these are the same, they have completely different GRFIDs but the same version number
The one that says NG does not in fact run on NG
snow carbon
Huh
I'm not surprised my setup for that is a bit of a mess, I need to actually get that sorted x.x
I hate not being at home otherwise I'd be more able to help test stuff
Probably worth on your end deleting the two files of mine and just putting the new one in
signal pulsar
Otherwise completely vanilla game, same problem
signal pulsar
Because unfortunately I might have been right all along and you can't recolour CC and cargo at the same time
I hope I'm wrong though
snow carbon
No because I'm confident I have the cargo part working
Unfortunately this specific one doesn't show off the colors well
Because I'm using default blue as my company color
The train in the bottom left is carrying stone and has company colors
signal pulsar
Huh, neat
snow carbon
So now I'm wondering if it's a setting thing somewhere
latent quail
palette recolouring by spritelayer is **definitely ** supported
CC recolour sprites occasionally get cached or stale - which is a bug when it's reproducible - it's not common though
there is a case where multiple vars overwrite the same register (0x100), so you could be getting caught by that
signal pulsar
Shouldn't the reloadnewgrfs command reset that cache?
latent quail
yes
usually
I have no evidence, but subjectively I agree 😛
I might be totally misremembering, but possibly random switch overwrites 0x100
snow carbon
An OpenTTD restart should definitely fix it then I assume if it's a cache thing?
signal pulsar
I bypassed the livery refit and random switches, but nope, still blue
latent quail
not working in Horse either
2 of the blue car transporters should have some red cars
they're teal
not today's mystery - job work time 🙂
snow carbon
Now I'm really wondering if there's some setting that I have set to make this work...
I'll be able to check more when I'm home, unfortunately have to put a pin in figuring this out
latent quail
not a setting
either we're all doing it wrong
or there's a recolour sprite resolution issue in current OpenTTD with spritelayers
or we're all scribbling over register 0x100
signal pulsar
progress!
I had to comment out this line in the graphics block
// colour_mapping: switch_generic_recolour;
and so Fairy's code works because it references the generic recolour in a separate switch
So that's what the problem was in JP+ Engines code but I don't know what's happening with Fairy's set because it's the opposite problem
snow carbon
Otherwise completely vanilla game, same problem
Seems like this is an issue related to industry sets. I get this issue if I run vanilla but not with my industry set, probably not with some FIRS variants either, will have to figure out the cause. First gonna push my latest stuff to github I think
https://github.com/FranticFairy/FairyUKSet
Put my latest stuff here
twilit geyser
I can appreciate that you're all busy, and the amount of effort that's been put into the GRF so far, though it does feel rather steam-heavy... I was curious to see how it compared to it's predecessor, and the screenshot below does prove this. With this in mind, would someone be able to either a) teach me how to draw sprites like this (and how to use GitHub), and/or b) add a few more modern vehicles?
snow carbon
It's primarily Steam Heavy both because I just like them better and because RUKTS has a lot of more modern stuff. I can't teach how to draw, I can teach GitHub or add stuff myself once I have the brainpower for continuing work- also I'm surprised that electric locos went down 2
twilit geyser
Updated because I forgot 3rd rail was a thing.
tawny oar
oh it's 100% steam heavy, mostly my fault and i'm completely unashamed of it
i love steam engines (never play with "vehicles never expire" turned off)
not sure how electrics went down 2 though
twilit geyser
I don't think it's a bad thing, I like having that many steam options. It's just that it makes role-playing a realistic history with steam-diesel transitions, Beeching axes and diesel-electric transitions becomes rather boring after the withdrawal of steam...
twilit geyser
I think it's the tube stock that's missing. I don't know if the GitHub has it (I don't know how to use it, so I've been using the latest file that was uploaded here), but the version I'm using doesn't have them...
tawny oar
the underground stocks there
twilit geyser
Then the version I'm using must be out of date.
tawny oar
it's the stuff with numbers at the beginning (E.G. 1903 stock)
twilit geyser
such is how it went IRL
I get that, but we've got more than just the 150, 158, 170 and 357 running local services today. It just feels a bit too bland. Like, there are loads of units from the 1960s onwards that would still be visually distinct from what's in there currently...
twilit geyser
Having just run through the Wikipedia articles, admittedly you've got the locomotives very well covered, I could only find 2 that were visually distinct from what's already in the GRF, but I reckon there are 26 multiple units that could be added, which would be visually distinct from what's already there, and that would make the modern era quite a bit more entertaining, I feel.
snow carbon
I think it's the tube stock that's missing. I don't know if the GitHub has it *(...
You might not have the metro trains due to track type messyness I need to work on fixing
There aren't too many too distinct modern locos, and there's a few that are that I have on my "would want" list. I'm not greatly familiar with units, and I have long planned to grab some from RUKTS, too, which would up the list. But at the same time, I wouldn't want to complete consume RUKTS
void roost
I get that, but we've got more than just the 150, 158, 170 and 357 running local...
Considering they’re the same scale, why not run it alongside RUKTS for modern units?
twilit geyser
Considering they’re the same scale, why not run it alongside RUKTS for modern un...
Mainly because I've never seriously used it before. I'll have a play with it tomorrow, to see what its like, but if memory serves, I have used it once before and decided I didn't like the sprite style... I'll see tomorrow.
Also, I feel that since this NewGRF is still being somewhat actively developed, it'd be nice to get the modern units in it, instead of relying on a separate GRF.
elfin sparrow
rukts is a perfectly cromulent grf
it embiggens your range of uk trains ad they look nice next to UKRS2 stuff
it doesnt sound like fairy is that intersted in modern stuff
tawny oar
i'm definitely not interested in modern stuff beyond modifying the hitachi a train into the class 800 series
twilit geyser
That's kinda why I asked if anyone would teach me how to draw sprites... I completely understand that you all may not be interested/have time to do more modern stuff, but I would be, if I knew how.
latent quail
this is meant in a kind spirit
hasn't everything UK now been drawn at least once already?
🙂
isn't BR Trains also UKRS 2 scale?
and RUKTS?
snow carbon
isn't BR Trains also UKRS 2 scale?
BRTrains isn't, I believe, RUKTS is.
And yes, I believe most modern stuff has been drawn before, its mostly the obscure stuff that hasn't been.
I've got no objections to including more modern stuff, I just can't include what I don't have spritework for, and I'm hesitant to just go plunder RUKTS. Maybe a few sets here and there, but I don't want to run into a situation where there's too significant an overlap between the two sets
void roost
isn't BR Trains also UKRS 2 scale?
No, BRTrains is (more or less) the same scale as Iron Horse
void roost
this is meant in a kind spirit
Yeah I was slightly confused this set existed at all, it seems like the same effort would have made more sense contribution to RUKTS or BRTrains, especially with the focus on steamers which is where those two sets could both benefit most from contributions
snow carbon
Yeah I was slightly confused this set existed at all, it seems like the same eff...
The scale difference is part of the reason why this would never have worked as a contribution to BRTrains, I have 0 drawing talent, only programming ability, its only because Pikka gave permission for me to use the sprites that this exists in the first place. As for why it isnt part of RUKTS, that mainly boils down to 'scope creep' and the fact that in hindsight, its easier for me to not have to worry about other contributors while I work on code refactoring/automation.
tawny oar
class 205 status:
engine unit is 90% complete
fortunately the trailing end is a fair bit easier
void roost
I’ve just spent like 3 years working on BRTrains code, another coder would’ve been far more helpful than more artists 😂
neat vessel
hasn't everything UK now been drawn at least once already?
obscure early 20th Century tank engine enters the chat
gloomy jay
tawny oar
i'm definitely not doing it
tawny oar
That's something i've long been curious about too. ("Is my Pacific supposed to p...
found a picture of a 14 coach train
neat vessel
I mean if anything could a Duchess could, but I am unsure she's happy
tawny oar
the picture's from instagram, hence the tiny size
void roost
That's something i've long been curious about too. ("Is my Pacific supposed to p...
“At least 16” here, albeit double headed (to get over Shap)
And 14+ here behind a single locomotive, again over Shap summit so pretty impressive!
A couple more with 13 and 14 and one loco, so that seems pretty routine
Yeah there are loads with 11-14. 15-17 seems to only be the occasional summer holiday service and double headed
I won’t post more unless I find something that breaks the above rules
snow carbon
Thread to keep all things regarding my rewrite of UKRS2 in one place.
So far the set is nearing it's first release. I mostly just need to fix cargo loading sprites and some small tweaks regarding MUs. After the first release I can start working on liveries
Also have several new vehicle additions, like the SR 4DD drawn by @strange zodiac:
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/860855471359787018/984689741469458452/SR4DD.png
And the 4-6-2 Peppercorn, among others, by @tawny oar
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/967487405324136529/983412732026044516/unknown.png
tawny oar
wooo
snow carbon
Will's been working on some Pullman Coaches
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/967487405324136529/985531522633318471/unknown.png
I'll be doing a big batch of implementing things once I return home, at which point I'll have some in-game screenshots to share
And for those who don't want all the new vehicles, there will be parameter options for 'None', 'Simplified', 'UKRS2', 'UKRS+' and 'Full' rosters for both locomotives and wagons, similar to what UKRS2 does
snow carbon
Brighton Belle & SR 4DD
sacred dove
Will UKRS2 in NML include more stuff?
Then again I feel like if I want a stupid amount of UK stuff, go with Timberwolf UK Trains
snow carbon
Will UKRS2 in NML include more stuff?
Then again I feel like if I want a stupid ...
Yes, both when it comes to carriages as well as trains.
Already I've included the 5AT & Wardale 604 "Advanced Steam" trains, the P1 Mikado and P2 highlander, the Brighton Belle and SR 4DD, and split several 'sprite variations' off into their own separate locomotives.
A few more locomotives are still planned, but currently lacking sprites. Ragin expressed interest in drawing the Blue Pullman, and I've written down potential stats for an Ivatt Class 2, BTH Type 1/Class 15, BR 10100/Fell, and a EE 10200/Class D16/2, though none of these have sprites at this time.
As mentioned, of course, there will be a parameter to turn off the new additions, for those who don't want them, and just want the basegame vehicles
It will most likely not be nearly as big as Timberwolf's collection, of course, but at least bigger than UKRS2
sacred dove
I just thought of something stupid but could even have a "Vanilla-like" roster that just includes stuff closest to the vanilla stuff aside from the TGV
if I recall correctly the Vanilla trains in Temperate has the Eurostar and TGV
snow carbon
That's planned, actually, since UKRS2 has that
A 'simplified' roster that just. Gives you a few locos to play with
sacred dove
Then again, I might be stupid, but isn't the eurostar based on TGV tech?
Ahh yeah, the Class 373 is part of the TGV family according to Wikipedia
anyways, yeah, I look forward to seeing more stuff as I'm stupid and like a lot of stuff to play with even if I might not always use everything.
But sometimes I find niche uses for various things, like maybe I notice a 6 car train isn't doing as hot on some lines and need something a little more powerful, faster or higher capacity but without going to something totally different
snow carbon
Currently there's a stupendous amount of passenger carriages, though I also want to increase the selection of cargo wagons
Since I'm splitting the visual variations for the Mk1/2/3 coaches into their own things to ease on refit stuff, and also adding a few custom variants
sacred dove
ALSO the UK doesnt really do 40 foot container cars do they, despite having cars that hold two 20 foot container
OK no i can shut up
snow carbon
Sleeper Coaches (Very small capacity, almost no decay, high running cost)
Pullman Coaches (Small capacity, low decay, higher than average running cost)
Dining Coaches (Similar to Iron Horse's implementation)
sacred dove
ALSO if possible I'd make brake vans an optional thing
Some players dont like that kinda realism forced on them
I dont mind it though
snow carbon
ALSO if possible I'd make brake vans an optional thing
Yup, doing that
sacred dove
gives me a reason to use more stuff and think about how I build my early cargo trains
snow carbon
You'll have the option between:
Forced
Timberwolf Style
No Effect
sacred dove
I'm guessing Forced is that the trains wont run at all without a brake van? ANd timberwolf the trains will run at greatly reduced speed without one?
snow carbon
Forced is default UKRS2 behaviour, trains will not run without a brake van
Timberwolf Style gives cargo trains a slightly higher max speed if they do have a brake van, but can operate without one
sacred dove
Ahh
ALSO I was just thinking, Some stuff in the UK has a higher design speed than used in service
Especially with freight
Then again for a long time a lot of freight around the world was hauled in stuff that COULD run at higher speeds
but when loaded it was kinda too dangerous to have a tanker or hopper car full laden with cargo running at high speed
I like that in modern day railroads around the world are trying to get at least goods trains to move fast like with container cars
snow carbon
I'm currently working on figuring out what parameters I want to include. These are the ones I have in mind so far:
Locomotive Roster: [None, Simplified, UKRS2, UKRS2+, Full (Default)] - Determines what locomotives, if any, this GRF will make available.
Wagon Roster: [None, Simplified, UKRS2, UKRS2+, Full (Default)] - Determines what wagons, if any, this GRF will make available.
Naming Scheme: [Basic (Default), Realistic] - Determines whether the GRF uses UKRS2-style names (EE Type 3) or 'Class' names and such (Class 37).
Default Livery: [2CC (Default), Realistic] - Whether train vehicles should, upon purchase, default to using 2CC or Realistic Liveries.
Brake Van Rules: [Mandatory, Speed Buff (Default), No Effect] - Whether Brake Vans are Mandatory for cargo trains to run, give cargo trains with them a small speed buff, or do nothing.
Brake Van Retirement Year: [Year (Default = 1975)] - Up until which years the Brake Van Rules apply. Once this year is reached the GRF switches to No Effect.
Locomotive Expiry: [Standard (Default), Relaxed, Restrictive] - Determines how long locomotives are available for. Relaxed adds another 10 years to every train, while Restrictive significantly limits how long all but a few locomotives are available for, forcing you to place big orders if something you want becomes available.
Running Sounds: [On (Default), Off] - Determines whether or not to play running sounds.
Fixed-Length MUs: [Available, Unavailable (Default), Replacing custom-length] - Whether or not to make fixed-length MUs (like in Timberwolf's set) available alongside the custom-length options, to hide them, or to hide the custom-length options and make it only possible to buy fixed-length consists.
Any suggested additions?
sacred dove
might actually be kinda nice if one could use just the wagons from this set as I've tended to load up UKRS when playing with tropical stuff that usually runs on narrow gauge
Though 2cc Trains and Tropic renewal set are made for standard gauge and thus you just gotta pretend its narrow by maybe using smaller scale low capacity wagons like from UKRS v2
snow carbon
Yup, that will be an option, since you can set Locomotives to None independently of the wagons
sacred dove
Yeah thats whY i'm brining it up
BTW, I was maybe thiking for the Brake Van Rules:
None - No rules apply, brake vans are disabled
Eyecandy - No rules apply, brake vans are enabled but do nothing.
Loose Rules - Trains require brake vans to operate at full speed, or they will incure a severe speed pentalty
Strict Rules - Trains require brake vans and will not operate without.
Speed Buff - Trains do not require a brake van to operate but adding one will provide a small speed boost (non-stacking).
I'd probably make the default as "Eye Candy" so that they're still there but leave a note on brake vans in the purcahse menu that its just eye candy and not required for train operation.
** ALSO**
Might be a bit extra work for each train but I just thought of something I should do.
I already added suggested usage in NARS addon set, though perhaps that could be an option/parameter like "Suggested Usage" Toggle.
I like to think that for some people not so familier with trains, the suggested usage might help some players get an idea what some types of trains are better used for incase the numbers dont make much sense to players.
sacred dove
doot
sacred dove
Hmm...
Maybe a bit silly to suggest but I was thinking if I ever got around to doing omega nars covering everyting from North america, I might even make a parameter or addon that includes Export locomotives (american designs used in other countries)
Might be interesting if UKRS2 in NML maybe had an addon or parametr to include Export British designs (be it stuff built in the UK and shipped abroad or stuff built on british designs in other countries).
I do believe some of the early diesels used in the commonwealth countries/British owned stuff, tended to use british designs.
snow carbon
I'm certainly not against this, but the issue with adding more vehicles is sprites
I'm no artist, so I rely on submissions from others
sacred dove
AHh
Well in that case I guess it'd just have to be an idea as a addon than
I'd draw stuff myself and while I can, I just dont have the energy/motivation to do anything lately 😄
Otherwise I'd help out with development 😄
snow carbon
Motivation can be a mess at times, so I definitely understand that
strange zodiac
I feel like export stuff doesn't really work in a set like UKRS or NARS
in the case of UKRS, it's meant to replicate UK trains, so adding trains that were build/designed in the UK, but are ultimately foreign feels a bit weird
e.g. a NSW 46 class is based on an EM1/EM2, was built and designed in the UK, and has a somewhat UK styled design, but it wouldn't really fit
tawny oar
what would be a good basis to turn into a GWR hall?
or other GWR 4-6-0 tender locomotives?
tawny oar
suggestion for the 2-10-0 Star: increase max speed to 90 MPH
they were known IRL for being able to achieve that speed
sacred dove
Perhaps it might be nice if instead look up how to do livery refits to make things run at their Max possible speed at a higher cost, where as buying them without refitting makes them run at normal speed.
OR just make a 2nd version labled (Max Speed) and have it sell for about the same, but with higher running costs
tawny oar
im not in favour of that
considering the trains are often more limited by the speed limit of the wagons than the engines
if you want a fast train, use a faster locomotive
tawny oar
and of course, use faster wagons
plus we dont know the max speed of a good portion of the steam locomotive selection
the 9f was recorded at 90 multiple times over its service life
sacred dove
If anything, realistically perhaps trains should be run at line speed with signals in game
or let them run full throttle
givem all
void roost
Will UKRS2 in NML include more stuff?
Then again I feel like if I want a stupid ...
I'm of the opinion that if you want UKRS-with-more-stuff, you'd go Timberwolf/RUKTS/BRTrains anyway, depending on what else you want
UKRS was never meant to be a "Lots of British trains" set, it was intended to be an approximate replacement for the default set but with real trains rather than made up trains
Pikka deliberately (as far as I'm aware) avoided adding duplicated trains or anything that didn't have a specific gameplay niche, because it's meant to be a gameplay set, not a set that covers everything, there are other sets that do that
tawny oar
ive mostly been filling the gaps in the roster with my additions
the only "out of place" engine is the 4-6-0 hall
and thats purely there because there are NO GWR large tender engines in UKRS
we have 2 pannier tanks, a prairie tank, the 2-6-0 mogul and a railcar, but nothing larger than that
void roost
Yeah that's what I mean, UKRS2 was never intended as a "One 4-6-2 from GWR, one from LNER, one from LNWR etc" - it was meant as more of a "You need a 4-6-2, here it is", because having another just duplicates that one
void roost
To be fair, steam is the area where RUKTS etc don't really have the wide variety either, but for diesel/electric onwards it holds true that there's already a locomotive that covers that niche
tawny oar
(nitpick mode activated please ignore)
also the GWR never used 4-6-2 locomotives
(nitpick mode deactivated)
void roost
But still, I maintain that I personally wouldn't think UKRS should have more than one locomotive within a niche, that's not really the "idea" of the set
Fair point, but still something like a Hall Class does much the same job as an A3
if I'm getting the sizes/power levels right, I'm not really a steam guy
tawny oar
hall and A3, not comparable
void roost
That said, if you want to add a wide variety of locomotives, I'd suggest you'd be better off contributing to RUKTS or BRTrains rather than adding them to UKRS, personally
tawny oar
the hall's closest equivalent is the jubilee
void roost
Castle? What was the GWR version of the Pacifics?
tawny oar
castles and kings
void roost
Gotcha. I've drawn a couple of GWR locomotives but I don't know much about them
tawny oar
they were the GWR's most powerful steam engines
tbh i dont plan on doing ALL of the GWR 4-6-0's
ifact other than the hall i dont plan on any others
because their all nearly identical
void roost
BRTrains will have them all eventually, assuming I can handle the monotony of drawing so many kettles
It currently has Hall and Great Bear, alongside the A1 and A3
tawny oar
Hall
castle
king (cant find a green one so have a blue one)
as you can see, damn near identical
and if we're getting into neverbuilts, there's the cathedral class
which i am NOT touching as they are pretty much GWR versions of the LMS coronations
void roost
Hall Class in Hogwarts Express livery
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void roost
Looks good
tawny oar
thank you