UKRS2 in NML Dev Thread

[snow carbon]

Articulated 41, some 47's, and an electric Class 44 A+B

So far though, these are my favourites (and would love if someone could make the \ / views for a fictional set)

Articulated 24/25/27 and 47, articulated electrics made from the SR CC and Class 77, Class 44 and 47 A & B Units, attempted Class 13 and attempted Metro-Vick Electric

[sacred dove]

Married pair/Doubled Locomotives? what is this? the USSR?

XD

[sacred dove]

Wait the UK actually tried doing this?

[snow carbon]

Not that I know of. Those are non-uk designs. Hence why they'd go into a fictional spin-off set

[neat vessel]

There was a proposed steam turbine design that was an articulated/paired locomotive

[tawny oar]

has anybody got any ideas on how we could make north wales narrow gauge stuff?

[neat vessel]

In finescale it might be challenging

[tawny oar]

how's this as a start?

hmm, with wheels or without wheels?

(yes i changed it to only have 1 buffer)

got a carriage done too

[tawny oar]

narrow gauge van done

and i think i'm getting somewhere with a George England, i'm re-using the planet's tender

and i might be able to kitbash a slate wagon out of the planet tender too

[neat vessel]

It worked for Hornby 😛

All looking excellent as well

[tawny oar]

yey

i won't be doing too many things

my list is as follows:

open wagon
van
small passenger carriage
large passenger carriage
slate wagon
george england
double fairlie
and
possibly a tank engine

[snow carbon]

No idea when I'd get to implementing narrow-gauge stuff if drawn, would prefer to focus on the standard gauge stuff

[neat vessel]

It might be rather ambitious but I will give the GCR 8H a go

I've found myself increasingly drawn to the GCR, which feels like betraying my LNWR/LMS roots 😄

(but they're not reeeeeeally LNER, not like the GNR, NER, GER etc so, it's okay? right? 😄 )

[neat vessel]

Initial side view

[neat vessel]

Reasonably happy with this 🙂

[tawny oar]

better to have and not use the sprites now, then not have them when they are wanted

[snow carbon]

True, though some work on some of the wanted standard-gauge sprites is also appreciated, like what SquireJames did

[neat vessel]

I find the diagonals tricky, but I think I did the horizontals pretty well, and the verticals and diagonals are modified enough from the 2-6-4 Suburban to be distinguishable

Oh reminds me, I was looking through the sprites you sent me for conversion to see if I could find the 0-8-0 Mineral to steal its wheels. Ended up using the rear section of the WD 2-8-0. I assume the 0-8-0 Mineral will be in the set, just not in those sprites as it didn't require reworking?

[snow carbon]

The Mineral doesn't have a CC version, much like the Banker, so it wasn't included

[neat vessel]

Oh of course 🙂

I also did it in CC as you can see, and with implied GCR markings, as the 8H or LNER S1, rather than the later S1/3 (which had slopey front tanks, and booster sets on the rear bogie) Partly because I prefer the original design, and I like pre-grouping colours, but mostly because I think the slopey tanks would be hard to do in this scale and limit the engine to post-1932

We could have a variant, or time based appearance (so those built post 1932 would be S1/3) but, I think the difference at this scale is tiny and not worth doing

[tawny oar]

what would the 0-8-0 mineral be exactly?

[neat vessel]

It's somewhat generic but, with the tender cab it reminds me most of the LNWR Super D

With the 8H, I haven't been able to definitely say what the originals were painted in. I've found a model in lined GCR black, but the reference image I used was clearly not in black

[tawny oar]

ah, yep

that's it all right

[neat vessel]

Possibly in photographic grey here but, not sure

The only other GCR liveries I know of are a rather bold green, but, for a shunting and freight engine, the black seems most likely. Still, if its in CC, it can be painted black if the player wishes

[elfin sparrow]

Why is that an 0-8-0 and not a 0-8-4?

[neat vessel]

(LNER and BR service were in unlined black)

[tawny oar]

ok this thing's proving a pain to repaint

[tawny oar]

mine? it's a tender engine

[elfin sparrow]

I mean James’

[tawny oar]

oh

[neat vessel]

I'm not sure what you mean? My sprite is an 0-8-4

enlarged for detail

[elfin sparrow]

My brain wires musta got crossed

Cos of talk about 0-8-0 but pics of 0-8-4

[neat vessel]

I was trying to find the sprites for the 0-8-0 to copy the underframes for the first part of the 8H 🙂

but couldn't, as it doesn't have a CC version (the sprites I have)

So, i used the 8 coupled wheels from the 2-8-0 WD instead

(and copied the trailing part to the front, and painted in some CC outside cylinders)

[neat vessel]

Black is always a pain to recolour as there isn't any real gradient to work from

[elfin sparrow]

Maybe choose 8 shades of grey for black

I draw all my trains in 2cc but the code replaces a CC with black if needed

[tawny oar]

i'm working backwards from this

and so far i have this done:

[snow carbon]

The biggest issue with recolouring the Black locomotives is that if you do it by just straight recolour you end up with a much darker locomotive, unfortunately

[tawny oar]

that is true

but at-least with it in darker CC1 it's easier to change it without fucking up the black parts

also BTW, i am NOT touching the other version, the one with a cab on the tender

[neat vessel]

Also, looking at the NER Class X/LNER T1, I think I could likely just swap the wheel arrangement around from the 8H/S1

Okay, flip the wheel arrangement, shorten the boiler/smokebox

At least at this scale, there isn't much else between them

(both are outside cylinder, comparable length in TTD terms, fairly large bunkers, similar wheel size too)

Also, as an idea, an A6 would be an easy conversion too

ah hang on

There we go

NER X5/LNER T1

Shortened the bunker slightly, moving the cab. Shortened the smokebox/boiler. Redid the wheel arrangement to a 4-8-0

I don't think the diagonals or verticals really need adjustment

[tawny oar]

i think that's the mineral in CC done

it'll need the colours shifting up a shade but thats more easily done than from black

and that's the shade shift done

[neat vessel]

It's a teeny bit dark, but, I think that's going to happen with a black loco

Should I go ahead and make the side views for an A6, or, are we at risk of overdoing it?

[tawny oar]

shifted another shade up

[neat vessel]

Excellent

[snow carbon]

One thing that might be interesting to consider that I thought of after messing about with stuff today is seeing how possible it is to transform Iron Horse Cargo Wagon Sprites into finescale. Probably not very doable, but food for thought

[tawny oar]

what is finescale exactly anyways?

[snow carbon]

The smaller-size sprites used by UKRS2 and RUKTS

Originally used to represent the smaller British loading gauge or something iirc? Not sure. Point is, small trains

[neat vessel]

Yes, I believe it was keeping it to scale with the locomotives in NARS

[tawny oar]

^

[tawny oar]

oh yeah, just remembered something

would it be possible to make a motorail wagon?

it would look like the large flatbed with 2 cars on it

but carries passengers

[neat vessel]

I thought Motorail waggons were hollowed out Mk.I Carriages

Started on the Met Class K/LNER L2

[tawny oar]

nope

mk1 chassis though

[neat vessel]

See I was thinking of these. Were they not used for carrying cars? Just associated cargo?

[tawny oar]

not sure tbh

[neat vessel]

Maybe an earlier form

Given the vehicles etc. Cars got bigger (and still are) so, perhaps it was not possible to carry them inside carriages any more, and the open wagons were used instead

[tawny oar]

the open ones were in use for a VERY long time

[vocal kettle]

the closed ones were used until privatisation

but there are a lot more images of the open wagons that i can see

[latent quail]

Deltic A-B unit 👍

[snow carbon]

Of course

Anyway slight update as to what's been up: Not too much. Bit busy with school lately, but gonna try and get some more stuff done soon. Gonna be making some back-end changes to how I make things to hopefully make things easier for me but that's stuff that won't/shouldn't impact the GRF itself

What will impact the GRF itself is some things I'm gonna be trying to add. Sunshine Trains' 'Shunting Locomotive' variants of it's small locomotives has inspired me to try and do something similar with the small tank/shunting locomotives in this set, only with an invisible 'other head' rather than a brake van, so it will look like it switches between pushing and pulling. Will have to see.

I also intend to do something similar with DBSO/DVT/Whatever wagons but that will be a bit... messier. Since there'd be more liveries and whatnot, which might make for a bit of a mess of options. WIll need to figure out how best to handle that.

[tawny oar]

i'm thinking of making an alternate class 91 DVT

as an alternate universe where passengers are allowed to be carried in the DVT

[tawny oar]

... and done!

i figure the capacity should be about half of a standard coach/mk3

[neat vessel]

Hopefully the large tank engines I did are okay 🙂

[tawny oar]

oh yeah

i was thinking about making a tank engine variant of the 5AT

there were concepts for a 2-8-4 tank engine

though i'll be doing a 2-6-4

oh, and there's a 2-8-0 freight version too, the 8AT

[tawny oar]

here's the 5ATT (tank) (smoke deflector version TBC)

and the 8AT (again, smoke deflectors TBC)

[snow carbon]

So, been thinking more about DBSO's, specifically how to include them, and came up with this little chart of what a purchase menu with them included might look like.

As you can see, it's got the potential of being rather cluttered, but given how this is normally collapsed, and how you can collapse it, I imagine this is fine?

[latent quail]

'probably fine'

[frank kettle]

Probably you could always have a parameter to disable the cc ones

[latent quail]

Horse does similar bad things

[frank kettle]

I usually don't collapse them but I probably would in this case

[snow carbon]

I haven't dabbled in parameters yet, it's something to consider for when I have things fully working

I just know that, programming-wise, having all these variants is no issue for me. It's just whether or not the users want it

[vocal kettle]

I'd seriously hide some of these variants options behind parameters, even if they are enabled by default

as there will definitely be players who will be overwhelmed by the choice and/or purchase list clutter

[latent quail]

'simplified' 😛

[tawny oar]

i'd hide the colour variations under a parameter

[elfin sparrow]

@fluid abyss

[fluid abyss]

ty

[tawny oar]

welcome

[neat vessel]

You don't have to be mad to contribute, but it helps? 😉

[tawny oar]

cause i got bored, i bolted 2 blunt ends from the class 91 together to make a freight engine

(kinda like this)

[neat vessel]

Reminds me of something Bulleid would come up with

[tawny oar]

possibly

[tawny oar]

I just had a possibly stupid idea

seperate the (tender) steam locomotives from the tenders

[latent quail]

have you done the electric 58?

also

[tawny oar]

there would be a limit akin to the brake vans for the locomotives

in that a tender engine straight up can't leave without a tender

doesn't have to be the "right" tender, just a tender

[tawny oar]

ehh?

i thought that was squirejames' project

[latent quail]

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/forums/topic/149513-class-88-the-original/

[tawny oar]

looks in repaint folder

huh look at that

right there, class 88 project

was there any difference beyond strapping a pantograph to the roof of the 58 and removing the exhaust pipes?

[frank kettle]

Transformer?

[tawny oar]

external differences that is

[frank kettle]

Different went location maybe but

[tawny oar]

class 88 (electric 58) cc1

and in large logo

[latent quail]

for the Horse one I just put a pan on it

and flattened the roof of the central area

[tawny oar]

ah, you went with 2 pantographs

i just did one

i couldn't find any pictures of what the 88 would have looked like

[latent quail]

2 pans avoided drawing roof detail 😛

there's some good fictitious trains here http://www.25kv.uk/fictitiousliveries.php

including

[snow carbon]

Finally got around to redoing the program I use to bulk-generate .pnml files, so working on the grf again now that my workflow is less of an incomprehensible mess. There's still locomotives on my wishlist, but this is what I'm working with for now. Gonna get to doing variants and liveries next (which is the annoying part because it involves making sure certain sprites have the right palette)

Blue locomotives are new in this version I'm working on, Orange are new to UKRS, Yellow exist but simply as alternate sprites you can come across

[snow carbon]

I'm confident there's bugs in here (I even know of a few) and this version likely won't be compatible with future versions and it's incomplete but if people wanna test the rewrite and help me spot even more bugs then go ahead. So far only includes engines, and only in 2cc

[tawny oar]

what's on the wishlist?

also what version of the 604 are you using?

[snow carbon]

This

[tawny oar]

because i have this updated version here

[snow carbon]

Yeah I have that version

At least, I think I do?

I'll check later, currently working on getting liveries back in

[tawny oar]

AGAIN WITH THE STREAKS TENDER

[snow carbon]

Only in the preview window

I need to fix that

but upon purchase, it's the right away around

[tawny oar]

good

ok i have an idea for the 10100

i'm gonna kitbash a class 37 with a class 08 and see what comes out

[snow carbon]

Also there's a few steam locomotives that could do with Unique sprites but don't need them urgently - The D-Tank, Midlander, and three versions of the Goods locomotive

[tawny oar]

D-tank?

[snow carbon]

LB&SCR D1

[tawny oar]

this?

[snow carbon]

Nicknames the D-Tanks, apparently, which is what I went for as train name

Yes

[tawny oar]

also what's the midlander?

when i search it i get the tallyllyn diesel

[snow carbon]

Midland Railway 2441

[tawny oar]

that's literally just a jinty

[snow carbon]

Early Jinty, yes. Hence why it uses the Jinty sprite

[tawny oar]

i don't think it needs a uniquie sprite

[snow carbon]

Probably

[tawny oar]

anyways, here's what i have for the fell so far

[tawny oar]

how's this?

(larger res)

[latent quail]

about right 😛

[snow carbon]

okay, current roadmap, both for personal reference and for those curious:

• Get liveries back into this latest version, since I removed them as part of the rewrite
• Do passenger wagons
• Quick check-through to see if everything works
  In an undetermined order:
• Cargo Wagons (Need to figure out load sprites and stuff)
• Special Train functions (Small tank engines will get a 'Shunter' variant inspired by Sunshine trains, where they become a double-headed locomotive but the second part is invisible, so it looks like they're push-pull'ing without changing their location in the consist)
• DBSO's/DVT's (Will be a mess or variants and liveries I really don't know how best to handle this)

[tawny oar]

is the fell to your liking fairy?

[snow carbon]

It is

[tawny oar]

yey

[signal pulsar]

Good to see this isn't dead 🙂

[tawny oar]

thought i should bring these 2 up again, the B17 class
regular and streamlined

[snow carbon]

I don't intend to let it die, but my ability to focus on projects tends to fluctuate a lot. Progress has been slow because I'm reliant on my brain being like "okay we can work on this now".

[signal pulsar]

I know exactly what you mean

[snow carbon]

On top of that, giving sprites their proper palettes is a pain to do in bulk

I'm reliant on asking other people to do it for me

[signal pulsar]

Applying a palette takes like 3 clicks in GIMP, it's not that bad

[snow carbon]

It gets tedious with massive amounts of sprites is the issue

[latent quail]

Can script it with PIL and python 🙂

[snow carbon]

I'll need to look into that at some point. Have never actually written any python myself

[snow carbon]

decided to add it as a separate version, the 608

[snow carbon]

with the introduction of these, your first locomotive is a steam locomotive in the 1830's, while your last locomotive is a stream locomotive in the 2030's

[signal pulsar]

Good to see the Wardales back 🙂

would you also consider re-adding the futuristic fuel cell trains from UKRS1 if someone were to redraw them in UKRS2 style?

[snow carbon]

Of course

There's plenty of fictional designs I would love to be able to include, and if anyone has stuff they'd like to contribute, I'd be happy to add it in if it fits, especially if I can figure out stats for it

Apart from some minor bugs with Multiple Units, I'm very happy with how my program is performing so far. Very easy to rapidly create a bunch of .pnml files just from a few csv documents

[snow carbon]

Here's another test version. Also assistance with figuring out names to replace all the placeholder 'VarX' variants would be appreciated

[signal pulsar]

you could make it like Horse and just give the variants the same name

If it's just a livery difference, the name doesn't need to be different

[snow carbon]

Nah, it's always a detail differnce, as shown in the image with the Wardales

Variants are the same vehicle with minor sprite differences, liveries change the colours of sprites

Though I will probably just give a lot of them the same name

[snow carbon]

If anyone's currently got a setup ready to bulk-apply palettes, give me a poke. I have 421 images in need of having a palette applied so they support 2CC...

[neat vessel]

The 2-6-4T Workhorse is presumably the Fowler/Stanier 2-6-4T and those engines similar, what is the 2-6-4T Railrunner? The BR Standard version?

[neat vessel]

and yup, I can bulk that again for you Fairy

[snow carbon]

#985098159795609610 message
This thing, but I've since realized it has '8ATT' written on it so that's what it's called now

[neat vessel]

Ah i see!

[snow carbon]

The Workhorse is actually one of the ones you drew

The Workhorse is the LNER L2/Metropolitan K
Dockworker is the NER Class X
Hump Shunter the GCR 8H

[neat vessel]

Oh! nice 🙂 I did notice the Dockworker and Hump Shunter. I am glad they fit 🙂

[snow carbon]

also I've noticed that some of the trains I'm including aren't showing up. Need to double-check tracktype shenanigans with them

essentially anything bi-mode is refusing to show up, bleh

[latent quail]

if you don't figure that out, ask in #add-on-development

bi-mode definitely works if implemented correctly

railtypes can be non-trivial

[frank kettle]

I would be willing to help if you could share the code

[snow carbon]

The issue is likely that I need to define more stuff trainset-side than I currently do, I haven't poked into it much yet. Also I do need to push all this stuff to github now that I remember I have that setup for this

Github: https://github.com/FranticFairy/FairyUKSet
Data Sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zmXW8abCnygxxkaZ8z1WbdCVJIEtjntyDnAckTOFzqc/edit?usp=sharing

[latent quail]

bi-mode is usually just RAIL as tracktype, then a callback to set power

other people probably have more complicated versions, but eh

[snow carbon]

Basic Company Colour Livery Shenanigans, with help from @neat vessel

[neat vessel]

No problem 🙂 if my simple abilities with photoshop save you a ton of work, all the better

[snow carbon]

Every locomotive that is normally only available in CC1 has a livery option for CC2, and vice-versa. Every locomotive that normally has both CC1 and CC2 is available as just CC1, just CC2, or with colours inverted

[neat vessel]

👍

[snow carbon]

Next up will be Running Sounds (so it's not all the same for every Steam/Diesel/Electric locomotive) and passenger wagons, unsure in what order yet

[neat vessel]

yay! running sounds. I actually loved that about UKRS

[frank kettle]

@snow carbon would you mind me doing this to your code?
https://github.com/StarRaid/Representitive-UK-Trainset/pull/7/commits/3003c02f3a4bffa7ff56ca776dfc98c55b510d2d

I think a few more would be requiered for the eurostar and any dc locos?

[snow carbon]

Go ahead; I think that's what I'll be needing, I don't think I have this level of railtype detection stuff

[frank kettle]

I have done it now

the Class 92 is an example of how it is coded and the dc ones are in the correct depot too

[snow carbon]

👍
I'll take a look tomorrow

I've also managed to get the missing trains working, was a bug on my end, but will see if I can manage to add support for this once I'm less asleep

[snow carbon]

Wagons Soon

[signal pulsar]

Wow the filesize grew about 10x

[snow carbon]

I don't know if compiling incorporates unused images

if it does, that's definitely why. If not... it's a consequence of how I handle liveries

[signal pulsar]

All those variants would do it yeah

[snow carbon]

I'd have to figure out how to recolour WITHOUT separate images if I want to bring it back down again, though I don't know if that's possible for 32bpp liveries

in it's current state this is much easier for me to do, at least. I have one program that compiles all the .pnml files for me from a few .csv files, and a program that can bulk recolour images

[snow carbon]

-also isn't it more like 3x

[signal pulsar]

I just woke up, I can't maths

and the filesize doesn't matter much anyway, it's still nothing compared to extrazoom sets 😅

[tawny oar]

oh, guess i have one more variant of the footballer to make

[twilit geyser]

Just an idea, since we've significantly changed the names of the coaches, why not use the description of multiple unit locos to tell the player what coach goes in-between the end units?

[snow carbon]

There's a dedicated "MU Coach"

Currently there's no actual code in place yet to limit what you can put on an MU, but the MU Coaches are what you're intended to use, and will take on the correct appearance automatically

So there will be no need to think "What wagon do I need for this MU?" since the valid wagon is already obvious, and will be the only valid wagon once I get around to implementing that code

[twilit geyser]

Oh, ok. Apologies, I wasn't expecting that, as UKRS2 doesn't work that way.

[snow carbon]

Passenger & Mail wagons have been added, and given the same treatment as locomotives; All are available in CC1, CC2, Reverse CC if they normally have both CC's, and a selection of other colours, depending on the wagon

[snow carbon]

Made a forum post about All The Stuff!
https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=89644&start=20

[tawny oar]

i just noticed something

where's the duke?

err, the duke of gloucester that is

[snow carbon]

will add it soon, there's a b unch of sprites I missed, I'm pretty sure

[strange zodiac]

When you can, could you also add a function to increase train capacities?

Otherwise I find them way too low to be unplayable

[tawny oar]

no valance streamlined footballer

[snow carbon]

Yes, that's a planned parameter

[strange zodiac]

Marvelous :3

[snow carbon]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tEMq-pujrnSrQXsp1Kwulrz5u_rO59mhjuKM3cSv83I/edit?usp=sharing
I got slightly bored, and looked through Timberwolf's set for some more engine inspirations. If anyone wants to draw anything on here listed as 'Undrawn or 'Temp', suggest existing vehicles that look close enough as temporary placeholders, or suggest nicknames for trains that don't have one yet, feel free.

[neat vessel]

MR 156 -> "Kirkley"
Drummond M7 -> "Push Pull"
Peckett 0-4-0 -> "Peckett"
0-10-0T -> "Decapod"
SECR H -> "Push Pull II"
GCR 8K -> "ROD"
GCR 9N -> "Central Tank"
LNER M2 -> "Metropolitan G"
Caledonian 72 -> "Caley 72"
Fowler 4F -> "Freight II"
LNWR 380 -> "Cambrian"
GWR 5600 -> "Taff"
Class 404 -> "Pompey"

That's my suggestions up to the Standards, which can be "Standard 4" etc

[snow carbon]

I'm using a few of these now! For the 5600, Taff/Taffy could be a nickname since according to wikipedia that's a nickname that's used for them, but at the same time "'Taffy' being a derogatory term for someone of Welsh descent." makes me a bit iffy on actually using it

[oblique hound]

Pretty sure most southies wouldn't care, it's not a massive issue

[neat vessel]

That's why I went with Taff

As in Taff Vale Railway

[elfin sparrow]

Does anyone even know about that term though?

[signal pulsar]

I've only ever heard of Taffy being a type of candy

[elfin sparrow]

Same

[latent quail]

Names can be enigmatic, don’t worry about it 🙂

Ask GPT if you need more, it’s quite good at names 😛

[oblique hound]

It's a British thing, actually part of an old nursery rhyme

Also, you could call it the Taf, since that's the river and valley's name in Welsh

[neat vessel]

Class 421 -> "4CIG" (since unlike the 404 it only had one SR Class code)

[elfin sparrow]

Which one?

[oblique hound]

Taffy was a Welshman,
Taffy was a thief,
Taffy came to my house and stole a piece of beef

It goes on like that

In very poor taste, I must add

[elfin sparrow]

Ahh

Not one I’d heard before

[snow carbon]

Soon™️

[tawny oar]

would i be correct in assuming that with the freight wagons we could see the 1st proper release of the mod?

oh and did you se the Queen mary brake van i did?

[snow carbon]

No, there's still a bunch of tweaks and some fixes I'd want to do before I'd release a "1.0"

[tawny oar]

ok

[snow carbon]

Okay so, update on the cargo wagons for those interested. I've figured out Sprite Stacking so that will help with figuring out loads for some of the wagons.

The first version of freight wagons will likely not have the same livery options as you have with passenger wagons, rather instead they'll have randomized appearances. Maybe that will change later, but this way it's easier for me to get all the loading sprites working

I've also noticed that my locomotives aren't getting the correct TE value I've assigned them, so I need to figure out where I'm going wrong there, which will be quite tricky, I'm afraid. They're all just slightly below the intended value

[signal pulsar]

The great thing about sprite stacking is that you can easily apply extra switches to the wagons without affecting the cargo layer at all

[snow carbon]

Yeah it seems pretty neat I'll need to see if I can do more cool stuff with it. Doesn't JP+ use it to shade wagons differently or something? I vaguely remember something about it

[signal pulsar]

Yeah, the tanker wagons are overlaid with randomised mostly-transparent 32bpp masks to give them some variation. I might apply that to some other wagons as well.

But the real complex layering is in the new container wagons, which have 7 sprite layers because each container is on its own layer 😅

Speaking of which, it's about time I released that update

[frank kettle]

?

[snow carbon]

Freight Shenanigans. Not nearly done, but likely as done as I'll get it before the year is over. Freight Wagons are implemented, and all but the Cartic/Freightliner have loading sprites, though primarily placeholders, with not a lot of testing done. I'll need some help getting various loads recoloured to fit other loads - so far all open wagons all just use coal sprites when loading, but I want to make the colour of the cargo reflect what is actually loaded.

For the Railtypes, I'll include that next year as I'll need to implement that into the program I use to generate the .pnml files

For the Queen Mary brake van, that will also come next year. I would also like to request if the tender of the non-streamlined Footballer can be made smaller, it looks a little too big as it is.

For now, wishing everyone a happy new year in advance.

(is this worth throwing into #developer-updates...)

[tawny oar]

define "smaller"

because the real b17 did have a fairly large tender

[snow carbon]

It just looks a little off with the tender being larger than the boiler. Perhaps around the Edwardian's size? I'm unsure

[tawny oar]

like this?

[snow carbon]

About that size, at least, I think

[tawny oar]

here you go then

i altered the edwardians tender to match the footballer

(mostly the wheels)

i suppose it's not entirely out of the ball park

some B17's were fitted with smaller tenders

[frank kettle]

Fair enough

[snow carbon]

Happy New Year, everyone

[frank kettle]

Happy new year

[tawny oar]

i still have 51 minutes

[frank kettle]

Skill issue

[twilit geyser]

Happy belated New Year!

[neat vessel]

Indeed, a belated new year from me too

[tawny oar]

after taking inspiration from the caledonia railway's 30 ton mineral wagons

i made a large mineral wagon

i already have the eight angles done for the empties

gonna make the fulls before putting it up

[snow carbon]

Oh, nice!

[tawny oar]

it's the same length as the ICI hopper and the Siphon van

and once i finish it

i intend to try and make a tanker wagon

like this:

[tawny oar]

... and finished

the 3 standard colours of mineral wagon load in both half and fully loaded

[signal pulsar]

you guys aren't doing recolourable loads?

[tawny oar]

if we are i haven't heard of it

my resources only have coal black, iron brown/orage and stone grey

i could rustle up a tarp covered version for things like clay and possibly a sand variant

though that'll be tomorrow, is bed time

[snow carbon]

I recall having been told at one point that recolourable loads can mess with other things, so I haven't looked into how it's done yet

[signal pulsar]

Yeah it's hard to do in combination with company colours, that's the disadvantage

[snow carbon]

Yeah, that's what it was

If you have code I can look at for recolourable loads I can look into it for this set, at least

[tawny oar]

i'm losing my mind

i swear there was a tanker variant which had TTD written on its side like one of the 5 plank variants

and not the tiny square tanker, i know about that one

[vocal kettle]

Aye I recall this too

I have it if you need it

[snow carbon]

The Welded Tanker apparently is supposed to have i- yeah that one

[tawny oar]

My Sanity Thanks You

and now we have it in RCC

[tawny oar]

oh come on

the LNER had them too?!

[latent quail]

GWR had some

[tawny oar]

oh trust me, i know about the GWR ones

[latent quail]

I looked into all this for Horse, if you dig hard enough there are examples of most types of wagons you would want to draw, even if IRL only a few were built

you might want to shade the inside of the mineral wagons a bit darker, up to you 🙂 But the contrast will split front better from inside of body

[tawny oar]

thankfully converting them over to the LNER design was fairly easy

the 16ton mineral wagons are the same colours

[latent quail]

fair

[tawny oar]

only difference really is that the 16 ton has an end hatch

while the bogie ones dont

[elfin sparrow]

gwr mentioned

im still pissed off that the gwr railcar was fenced off in york

literally the best thing in that museum

[atomic kindle]

One of these?

[elfin sparrow]

yeah

[elfin sparrow]

thats the best photo i got of it

[atomic kindle]

WAIT NOO💔
There must some kinda work going on

[elfin sparrow]

yeah

next time i go to york ima try photo it

see if it is fixed by then

[atomic kindle]

Oh it said "repairing" im pretty blind

[elfin sparrow]

yeah xd

there was a class 20 and class 55 though

which made up for it

[atomic kindle]

That's so cool! The most british thing I've seen is a class 66 and that's 50% american

[elfin sparrow]

they're super common here

saw some on tuesday

like out and about

[atomic kindle]

The class 66?

[elfin sparrow]

yeah

[atomic kindle]

Yeah, they're pretty common in Sweden too. Probably the most common Diesel after T43/T44

[elfin sparrow]

if you ever do go to the uk i reccomend that museum

[atomic kindle]

Not that there's really any other diesels here anyways💀💀

[elfin sparrow]

it is easy as fuck to get to since it is literally next to the york tratin station

[elfin sparrow]

tmz?

the class 66 is on my to do list

and i will draw it to our scale

[atomic kindle]

It's been on my bucket list for long, though it's a bit off as a tourist unless ur planning a weekend in specifically York/Leeds

[elfin sparrow]

though any other stuff i wanna draw, like the class 35, will be rukts scale

apparently trains to york from london are 2 hours

[atomic kindle]

And expensive😵‍💫

[elfin sparrow]

and its a 5 min walk from the station

yeah probably lmao

come to the north anyway

we have the best shit up here

[atomic kindle]

Maybe I could do some trip where I start in london, buy a multi day train pass (if those exist) and work my way upwards. Maybe stay one night in a city each along the ECMR

And fly home from glasgow or somthn

[elfin sparrow]

personally i'd recommend staying in or near middlesbrough (even tho it is a fucking shithole) from there you can get a train direct to york or direct to the north yorkshire moors heritage railway

and the train to edinburgh leaves from york

[atomic kindle]

Staying in Middlesborough cuz it's easy to get out of💀

[elfin sparrow]

train from middlesbrough to york is about 1 hour and middlesbrough to NYMR is about 1 hour also

yeah pretty much lmao

its probably cheap too

idk its kinda like you telling me to stay in malmö because it has good connections to göteborg and kbh

[atomic kindle]

OMG NYMR
I have a puzzle with a motive of an A4 there that I got from a relative that used to live in London/Bristol

[elfin sparrow]

i saw an A4 on there a year or so ago

[atomic kindle]

Wait they have those? So like the image could happen irl?

[elfin sparrow]

it was on a gala day

galas happen once yearly

[atomic kindle]

There's 2 puzzles in the same box, the other being a Tornado/Peppercorn I think (bad at names) at the Dawlish seawall

[atomic kindle]

I live those (mark 1?) Carriages. Both the cream/chocolate one and the one in maroon that reminds me of LMS:s princess coronation

[elfin sparrow]

you're better than me, i know fuck all about steam trains, i like how they smell and sound but im more interested in post war diesels which you can see in what i draw

[atomic kindle]

Yeahh I mean it's good our interests doesn't interlap too much since then we can draw what we want🔥🔥

[elfin sparrow]

💯

ive got a sort of roadmap in my head

ill move this convo to our server tho

[atomic kindle]

Except for maybe a few MU:s I'd like to try but I don't really mind u doing it

[tawny oar]

more like the entire museum's being overhauled

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjVSJ3heiZo&ab_channel=Lawrie'sMechanicalMarvels

[elfin sparrow]

oh yeah

i did understate it a bit lmao

[signal pulsar]

It wasn't fenced off when I was there

[atomic kindle]

Does thst mean it'll be closed for some time? Cuz that's what's been going om in the swedish national railway museum

[tawny oar]

there was a video uploaded to another channel statin it was open on the 8th of january

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeWGu8qS9J0&t=126s&ab_channel=JoshMallard

[atomic kindle]

8th of Jan as im before or after the redoing took place?

[tawny oar]

8th of jan this year

here's an idea,

Watch The Videos

[atomic kindle]

I'm tired af sorry😭(I'll watch a little)

[tawny oar]

all you have to do is just open the link and you'll see lawrie uploaded his video a year ago

and the second video is THIS YEAR

[atomic kindle]

Yeah saw that now🫡

[elfin sparrow]

i mean yeah but this was 2 days ago

[neat vessel]

Weirdly I was in York two days ago as well 😄

[elfin sparrow]

is there no release of this on bananas?

[snow carbon]

Not at this time because it's not done and the way I've set it up makes it not great for savegame compatibility

[elfin sparrow]

fair

[latent quail]

can always break savegames

probably fine

[neat vessel]

Its acceptable to break saved games when things are alpha states

When you get into full releases, then you have to maintain some backwards compatibility

[tawny oar]

so uhh

i just had a stupid idea

the stupid idea:

[elfin sparrow]

POV: you load ukrs2 and xussr on the same map

[neat vessel]

I seem to recall a GRF with Wickham Trolleys in it

[tawny oar]

real question is

what the cluck would it be used for?

[latent quail]

Mail and supplies obvs

[tawny oar]

Palvans anybody?

far from perfect (the real ones had much bigger doors) but not bad for something slapped together in the hour before leaving for work.

[neat vessel]

Looking good 🙂

[void roost]

You can also break compatibility but bump the compatibility version, so that the new version is only used for new games - although obviously it means people who already have savegames won't get the updates

[tawny oar]

i can't remember if i suggested this before, but could the 2-10-0 star have it's max speed increased to 90 mph?

[neat vessel]

It's difficult as a lot of steam engines (or engines in general but steam engines seem badly affected by this) could exceed their design parameters and their service speeds by some margin. I think Pikka kept the speeds at a "this is what they did normally" level rather than "this is their max ever attained speed".

So, yes I know the 9F could go very quick, to the point it worried engineering crews because of possible damage to the track, but, it was never intended or certified to do so

[tawny oar]

make it a parameter option?

[void roost]

The high speed runs weren't sustainable day after day either, too much wear and tear - I think that's the best argument for defaulting to service/design speeds

Plus it gets REALLY hard to balance early diesels properly if you start making all the late steam trains 90-125mph

[latent quail]

also if you're getting the speeds from wikipedia....they're not thought to be very reliable 😛

[neat vessel]

So, lads n lasses, i'm on a group on facebook for "What if" locomotives.

Still waiting on the gentleman to post them, but there were apparently some designs produced intended for the East Coast electrification to follow on from the ES1, EF1 and EE1. Something to sit between those and the EM1 and EM2 (which I would assume would be used by the LNER on the ECML had the NERs section of the ECML been electrified by Sir Vincent Raven)

Would this be something of interest for the set?

[void roost]

Maybe as an add-on?

[latent quail]

any drawings?

[tawny oar]

hypothetically, if the DP2 had avoided being wrecked, survived into privatisation and ended up in the EWS rosters, which livery style would it have worn?

the style of the class 37?

or the class 66/67?

[void roost]

I’d assume 37 since the 66 were purchased later and thus given a livery they came up with later

Units that came into privatisation together would probably have been given similar versions of the livery

Eg the 58, 92 and 60 all got the same livery as the 37, all were pre-privatisation

[tawny oar]

37 livery it is then

[tawny oar]

one EWS DP2

[latent quail]

give it Porterbrook 😛

[tawny oar]

not a hope in hell

i'm good but i'm not that good

[latent quail]

not much to it 😛

[tawny oar]

OHHH THAT LIVERY

that's just BR 2 tone green

already got that as a result of the regular deltic

[snow carbon]

Doing work on this again, taking a bit of a different angle on the back-end on how I'm programming things. Any help in checking through this in search for bugs and graphical glitches is appreciated (trains being aligned weird, trains with weird stats, stuff like that). Liveries aren't in, some features are still missing.

[snow carbon]

I might make a 'cursed add-on set' that consists solely of fictional designs like these, if I get around to spriting the other views

[void roost]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterCity_250

AKA the Class 93 but that's just been re-used for a tri-mode EuroDual

There was also meant to be a Class 152 sprinter (probably quite similar to the 156), and a Class 51 "Super Deltic" - Class 50 bodyshell, Deltic engine, more power than the Class 55

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Classes_371,_381_and_471

The "Universal Networkers" have a couple of concept designs too - kinda like a Class 442 or 320/456

[snow carbon]

Lot of cool ideas, do need someone else to do a lot of the spriting since my talents are limited to bashing things together

[void roost]

RUKTS has a 321 and 442 I think? They'd be fairly trivial to convert to the Universal Networkers for you

Their Class 56/69 might be convertible into a Class 50/51 without too much effort if you don't already have something suitable (I can't remember what UKRS2 has or what you've added since) - they're not that different looking at this scale

Intercity 250 might be a little trickier if you're not much of an artist but having a quick browse now their Class 395 is fairly similar in the TPE livery

[latent quail]

I nearly did these as asymmetric (cabs only at the outer ends)

there is allegedly a mockup somewhere IRL

[snow carbon]

oh interesting

[latent quail]

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/br-diesel-and-electric-locomotive-plans-that-never-happened.230760/#post-5627983

[void roost]

Not quite the same but I do it with the Class 20 (WIP)

[snow carbon]

Also found some unused sprites for the original add-on set now that the pikkawiki is back up, so added the ES1 and a Castle Class

[snow carbon]

Getting closer to a 1.0 release. Main things that are still missing are cargo sprites and coupling restrictions for MUs

(Liveries aren't in yet, those will come later, I have plans for how I want to easily implement them, but that requires me to not need to work on the base much more)

[void roost]

Possibly an unpopular opinion (and bear in mind I make a UK set with liveries so may have some bias from that, although it's RUKTS you'd be closer to) but I feel like this is better as a 2CC set with a focus on gameplay balance, that's what UKRS2 always did really well and that's UKRS2's niche

If you wanna do it, sure as shit don't let my opinion sway you - but if you want to make a UK train set with liveries, it seems wasteful to me to duplicate work being done in RUKTS and BRTrains when you could contribute to those projects instead

[snow carbon]

While I do agree with your points, there's reasons why I'm doing this as a separate set, rather than contributing to either of those projects.

For one, there are decisions made with either of those two sets that I'm not a huge fan of; RUKTS is sticking with livery refits instead of variants afaik, and BRTrains isn't finescale, if I remember right.

Additionally, my talent is only with programming, so I can't really contribute new livery sprites to either set.

On top of that, the liveries I primarily want to add... Are a bit more generic - like giving all steam locomotives liveries representing the other major companies, or giving everything an "inverted" livery option where CC1 is CC2 and vice-versa. I'd add more liveries that take more effort if people colour them for me, but primarily, this set isn't going to focus on "Exhaustive Realistic Options" for liveries, rather it's going for "UKRS2++, but you get control over which colours you want your things to be in, and have more choice than Company Colours alone would give you."

So I feel that my end goal with this project is already pretty similar to what you're suggesting, just a bit more colourful. A 2CC+ set, basically, because I do like having some more colour options than just 2CC alone can give

[latent quail]

you can do a lot with custom recolour sprites

Horse has two layers of 'livery'

one is at the pixel level

and the other is recolour sprites

[snow carbon]

The primary issue I have with 2CC liveries is that there's a limit in how much control it gives you.

Take horse for example, the DVT counts as a diesel engine. If I make my diesel engines green/red and my diesel passenger wagons blue/white, I'll still end up with a green/red DVT at the end of my blue/white train. And while I can use a group livery to make the set blue/white, I might want the diesel engine to stay green/red which would then be impossible.

Hence livery variants in specific predetermined colors

[latent quail]

yes

these are all recolours

there's one option for 'current company' colour, and the rest are defined colours

[snow carbon]

Yeah, I think horse wagon colors are fantastic

I basically intend to do that for basically everything, though more limited in the color options.

[strange zodiac]

omg time to find all the bugs and pester you with them >:3

[snow carbon]

Please do :>

it's far from reature-complete, but once I have the basic stuf done I can start slapping functions on top of it

[strange zodiac]

I'll let you know if I find anything!

[tawny oar]

can you show us the castle class?

so i can compare to the one i made

[snow carbon]

Oh, I missed those. I do like those more than the castle I found, so will probably swap it out

but yes, one moment

[tawny oar]

i also did the Hall and the King

hall

castle

king

also what's an ES1?

[snow carbon]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LNER_Class_ES1

[tawny oar]

OHH that thing

[tawny oar]

that's actually not bad

too long for a castle though

[snow carbon]

Yours is one pixel shorter :D

[tawny oar]

lol

but yeah something about yours just feels "off"

[snow carbon]

The shading

[tawny oar]

i'm definitely stealing those 2 grey pixels from the cabside for numberplates though

[tawny oar]

yeah that's it

the shading on yours matches the LMS engines more than the GWR

[tawny oar]

yeah the black pixels definitely work on mine

[strange zodiac]

oh btw, do you plan on doing any complex pantograph code? definitley not asking for my own nefarious purposes

[snow carbon]

as in?

[strange zodiac]

sorta like the stuff that was in PGT

[latent quail]

what's the complexity?

pan up, pan down

[strange zodiac]

with specific rules around how overhead line EMUs are done

[snow carbon]

Oh, for pantograph placement?

[strange zodiac]

where the pantographs go basically

[strange zodiac]

yeah

[snow carbon]

I could, but for the time being I'm just sticking to how UKRS2 does it

"One pantograph, as close to the middle of the consist as possible"

Primarily because it's very low down the line of my priorities

[strange zodiac]

fair fair

Guess I'll have to nick it from elsewhere :3

[snow carbon]

It's not super difficult to do

[snow carbon]

Who knows maybe if a certain someone compiles a good collection of written rules for w here pantographs should go under what situations/lengths I might slap something together if I have time/mood/energy

[strange zodiac]

also for some reason the 0-6-0 buffalo can carry 120 people

I'm assuming that footplate gets crammed

[strange zodiac]

yeah, but I have the math brain of a toddler 😦

[snow carbon]

That. Is very weird. How'd that get there

[tawny oar]

updated king

hall

and castle

now with cabside number plates

it's a miniscule change yes

[strange zodiac]

maybe I'll write a rule set up like that sometime :3

tbh I don't really need anything in particular, just something better suited to 25kv EMUs

[snow carbon]

Okay this is a really weird bug

because it has a capacity of 30 on my end, but nowhere in the code does it get given a capacity

[strange zodiac]

the code that audigex wrote where it'd have one pantograph on one of the middle cars if the set was less than 4 cars, but 2 (one of the 2nd leading car and one on the 2nd rear) was perfect for my needs

it just didn't allow for the behaviour that I wanted from the EMUs in PGT/GOPS, with the ability to couple 2 emus together, and neither of us were able to work out how to get it working so aaa

[strange zodiac]

the people or the bug? :3

[snow carbon]

yes

item (FEAT_TRAINS, ITEM_FAI_SL_BUFFALO, 61) {
    property {
        sprite_id:                        SPRITE_ID_NEW_TRAIN;
        refit_cost:                        0;
        climates_available:                ALL_CLIMATES;
        bitmask_vehicle_info:            0;
        air_drag_coefficient:            0x1C nfo;
        misc_flags:                        bitmask(TRAIN_FLAG_2CC, TRAIN_FLAG_SPRITE_STACK);
        
        track_type:                        RAIL;
        running_cost_base:                RUNNING_COST_STEAM;
        engine_class:                     ENGINE_CLASS_STEAM;
        ai_special_flag:                AI_FLAG_CARGO;
        
        name:                            string(STR_NAME_BUFFALO); 
        introduction_date:                date(1870,1,1);
        vehicle_life:                     40;
        model_life:                        76;
        length:                            5;
        
        weight:                         50 ton;
        speed:                            45 mph;
        power:                            500 hp;
        tractive_effort_coefficient:     0.122449;
        cost_factor:                     0x0B nfo;
        running_cost_factor:             0x09 nfo;
        
    }
    graphics {
        default:                        sw_BUFFALO_randomflip;
        visual_effect_and_powered:        sw_BUFFALO_randomflip_steam;
        sound_effect:                    sw_sfx_JIN;
        purchase:                        spriteset_BUFFALO_purchase;
        create_effect:                    vfx_STEAM;
    }
}

[strange zodiac]

that's very odd

[snow carbon]

There is also no code there that the Jinty doesn't have, but the Jinty has no cargo capacity

[snow carbon]

can you do me a weird test, and assign ID 61 to a locomotive in your set that would normally not carry passengers, and then see if it ends up carrying passengers

Like, just a cargo diesel locomotive

[strange zodiac]

sure

nope

[snow carbon]

so weird

[strange zodiac]

yeah

worst part about tiny bugs like these is it's always something tiny

and you feel dumb when you work it out

[snow carbon]

But in this case I have no clue as to what it could be

because it's not an ID overlap

[strange zodiac]

do you mind sending over the pnml for that loco so I could have a look?

[snow carbon]

I did. This is all except for the switches

[strange zodiac]

it'll be something small and weird

[strange zodiac]

hang on, I have an idea what it might be...

nvm

I assumed it might be the lack of "cargo_capacity: 0;" that's doing it

I recall finding a similar bug, and that was the fix

[snow carbon]

None of my locos have that, though, and it doesn't explain why yours has a capacity of 120

[strange zodiac]

but it might have been something different

[strange zodiac]

maybe it's just going to some weird default setting?

[snow carbon]

If I get rid of all my other GRFs

it will default to carrying 30 units of Livestock

(refittable to all cargo)

[strange zodiac]

yeah, same on my end

seems its capacity varies wildly depending on cargo type too

seems to be 30t for bulk cargoes, 60t for express, and 120 passengers?

[void roost]

Also the wheel arch and the footplate bit next to it that does down one extra pixel, gives more of a feeling of stupidness rather than length

Amazing how much difference half a dozen pixels makes

[snow carbon]

I do need to go through all my alignments sometime. certain length locomotives don't play nice with certain length tenders

[void roost]

I’d very much recommend doing a sweep of your templates (both the code and your template images)

It takes a bit of effort and is a little monotonous but it’s well worth it even if you have to re-template some sprite images to have things be more consistent

One of the biggest single improvements I’ve made in BRTrains I took it over

[snow carbon]

It works perfectly fine for almost everything

But things like a 6-length locomotive and a 4-length tender causes a gap

[snow carbon]

Done some preliminary alignment adjustment testing

fixing alignments for one thing breaks them for another...

I have no idea how I'm supposed to get around that

Take for instance this gap that the King class has with it's tender. If I change the alignment of the King class to be two pixels back, then it looks weird in the niche situation where you have one coupled behind something, and it moves other trains two pixels back, so my only option is to make a separate set of alignment templates for the King and just live with the couple-at-rear gap, annoyingly

[latent quail]

does that suggest the sprite is incorrectly sized? 🙂

[signal pulsar]

Sprite lengths need to be in multiples of 4

[snow carbon]

UKRS sprites... Are not multiples of 4

They're close, but. Not quite

Passenger Wagons are 33-length, for example

[snow carbon]

The sprite lengths the set has are
8, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 21, 22, 24, 25, 27, 29, and 33

the Pacific has a loco length of 29, and a tender length of 16, for example

[void roost]

Then yeah you’re always gonna get alignment issues in some scenarios

Either gaps or overlaps or some of each

[latent quail]

Correct sprite lengths are 17, 21, 25 and 33

9 if you have narrow gauge

[void roost]

That’s with a single pixel overlap isn’t it?

I thought 4, 8, 12, 16, 20, 24, 28, 32 are the actual sprite fitted to the bounding box and then the extra pixel allows for corridor connections on both ends of the coach, buffers on both ends of the wagon/locomotive etc

So they end up being 5, 9, 13, 17, 21, 25, 29, 33

BRTrains is half 4/8/12/etc with corridor connections on one end (older sprites) and half 5/9/13/etc with newer stuff I’ve drawn recently

Then you take the 4/8/12/etc from the horizontal view and halve it for the length of the sides of diagonal views (plus 6 for the cab), or the roof length of vertical views

Then height of 8 for standard TTD, 7 for timescale, 9 or something for xUSSR

[latent quail]

yes 1px for buffers / corridors

Horse does a few special case treatments of steam locos

quite often the 'engine' needs to continue onto some of the tender sprite

[void roost]

Yeah we do the same with a couple of sprites that we’ve robbed off you

I mean, been heavily inspired by and totally not copied, ignore the fact you’re credited as an artist on the set 🙈

[knotty marsh]

Totally not using Iron Horse sprites right now as we speak

[latent quail]

pay it forward some time 🙂

lot of Horse was originally UKRS2

upscaled by Dan

[tawny oar]

i could make a bigger tender for the king if it would help

[snow carbon]

I think extending the tender to 16px (to be the same length as a Pacific's tender) would help

Unless I'm wrong, the combined length of any locomotive+tender combo should end up as a (Multiple of 4 + 1); the King currently comes out at 43, which is too short. The hall comes out at 39, which is also wrong. Same as the Standard and Mickey (which suffers from this even more), and the Garrat is a little off, too

5
9
13
17
21
25
29
33
37
41
45
49
53
57
61
65
69

Should be the total lengths that work

[latent quail]

this is a generic GWR 4-6-0 and is 41 px

King is probably a little larger

[snow carbon]

13px (Planet) locomotives should be paired with tenders of 8px (Planet), 12px (Goods) or 16px (Pacific)
15px (Coppernob) locomotives should be paired with tenders of 10px (Coppernob) or 14px (8F)
17px (Lady) locomotives should be paired with tenders of 8px (Planet), 12px (Goods) or 16px (Pacific)
19px (Crampton) locomotives should be paired with tenders of 10px (Coppernob) or 14px (8F)
21px (Austerity) locomotives should be paired with tenders of 8px (Planet), 12px (Goods) or 16px (Pacific)
24px (King Arthur) locomotives should be paired with tenders of 9px (Not Drawn) or 13px (King Arthur)
25px (Mineral) locomotives should be paired with tenders of 8px (Planet), 12px (Goods) or 16px (Pacific)
27px (Arrow) locomotives should be paired with tenders of 10px (Coppernob) or 14px (8F)
29px (Pacific) locomotives should be paired with tenders of 12px (Goods) or 16px (Pacific)

Hall, at 25, currently has a 14-pixel tender, but should have an 8, 12 or 16-pixel tender
King, at 29, currently has a 14-pixel tender, but should have a 12 or 16-pixel tender
Castle, at 27, currently has an appropriate 14-pixel tender, but wouldn't work with a 12 or 16-pixel tender
I can make Hall and King work w ith 14-pixel tenders, but there'd be a gap at the front so you can't couple them behind anything without it looking weird

Standard, at 25, also needs a tender change like Hall does. I already resized the Mickey (LMS Ivatt Class 2 2-6-0)'s tender, and need to check up on the Garratt

[snow carbon]

I think an important decision to make is "What's more important", accurate tender lengths or getting rid of front-gaps (a gap in front of the locomotive, so you can't put it behind other trains, but it looks fine if you put it in front)

[void roost]

Overall I find life is much easier if you just stick to the 4/8/12/16/20/24/28/32 length vehicles

[snow carbon]

I mean i don't doubt that, but I cannot draw, let alone draw finescale, and unless someone volunteers to redraw all of UKRS2's stuff, things ain't changing

[frank kettle]

Are you sure the locomotive isn't meant to slightly overlap the tender to have correct lengths

[void roost]

Yeah that seems likely here

You can see part of the cab on the tender

[snow carbon]

The default UKRS2 sprites have the tender and locomotive as completely separate sprites

[snow carbon]

Notable New Funky Things:

• MUs are now properly restricted in what you can attach to them
• Some sound fixes
• Prairie, Suburban, Ivatt and Mickey locomotives get re-introduced in the 50's to represent BR Standard steam locomotives (Class 3 2-6-2T, Class 4 2-6-4-T, Class 2 2-6-2T and Class 2 2-6-0 respectively)

[snow carbon]

I feel like this A/B set turned out not-horrible

[void roost]

Looks nice… what is it though? I didn’t think the UK had B units other than the Class 13 A/B conversions from the Class 08

And that’s definitely not an 08/13

[snow carbon]

100% fictional, gonna go into a "Weird Designs" addon at some point

but I wanted to try my hand at bashing something together

[snow carbon]

ok, I think I'm about at the point where i've got pretty much every train I might want added. I've got a couple more things on my wishlist, if people want to take shots at making these in finescale, it would be greatly appreciated and I'lll add the locos in that case, but beyond these I don't really think there are many things left adding

- Adjustments to Standard, King and Hall with regards to tender size
- Maybe some tweaks to set the 4 'Goods' locomotives apart. Currently have them as the GNR Class J7 (Adjust the cab), LNWR Coal Engine (keep as default), GWR 2301 (Square Boiler) and GCR Class 9J (Square Boiler, Small Dome)
- LB&SCR A1
- LNWR Webb Coal Tank (base off of 'Goods' locomotive)
- GCR Class 9N
- LNWR Precedent
- GWR Great Bear
- GER Decapod
- BR Class 28
- BR Class 35
- Midland Railway 156
- LSWR 0298
- GCR 8K
- LNER M2
- Metropolitan Railay Metro-Vick
- Midland Railway 1528 
- GWR 5600
- USATC S100
- BR Class 251

Maybe bringing over UKRS1's Costar Junker, Hydra and Century locomotives could be neat

[void roost]

How big is the GCR 8K compared to a Black 5?

[snow carbon]

About a meter longer, so pretty much the same length in finescale, I imagine

[void roost]

Henry in the TTE set is a little small IIRC, that's a UKRS2-scale set - you'd need to recolour it into 2CC but it shoudl fit pretty well I think

And RUKTS has a Class 28 that you can presumably pretty much lift as-is

[snow carbon]

does it? I checked and I didn't see a Class 28, though I could've missed it

[void roost]

Huh, I've got something marked "Boco" in the TTE repo that I assumed was stolen from RUKTS

Maybe it's a modified something-else (8/8 does seem a little long for a 28...)

I didn't draw it so I'm not sure

@nova cape one of yours?

[knotty marsh]

I mean its not like we didnt just draw and set a Class 28

if UKRS wants it you can take it and play with it

[void roost]

Wrong scale for UKRS2

It’s less tall and IIRC kinda narrower (diagonal roofs?)

[snow carbon]

Been doing some sprite-bashing myself and honestly the results have been. Not too bad?

[latent quail]

sprites are just patterns mostly 🙂

[void roost]

Not bad for sure, although I judge kettles on the diagonals where they mostly just become blobs of pixels 😂

[elfin sparrow]

Are all steam trains kettles?

[snow carbon]

Yes, kettles is a nickname used for steam trains, if I'm not mistaken

[void roost]

Yeah sorry I forget not everyone will use that. Kettles = generic nickname for steam trains

[nova cape]

Oh yeah that's mine
Definitely mine

Mish mash of a class 50 and something else

[snow carbon]

Took some effort, but I'm quite happy at how my Finescale Torpedo Wagon turned out; bashed together the Iron Horse Torpedo Wagon with a Bogie Tanker for this

[snow carbon]

Slag Ladle wagons will also need some work, probably

[latent quail]

try the narrow gauge Horse ladle

the torpedos look like Scunthorpe's

[snow carbon]

This is the narrow gauge ladle

[latent quail]

https://krmodels.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/KR-1-scaled.jpg

😮 is UKRS 2 that much smaller

oh I see, I didn't redraw the ladle part 🙂

[snow carbon]

Here's a Strongbow next to a Jubilee

yeah the Ladle seems to be the same size for NG and SG

it's mostly the diagonals that need touching up

maybe just squishing it in is good enough

Does look better, might adjust to have the ladles be less full when full

[latent quail]

looks fine

do a gronk 😛

is UKRS 2 a comprehensive UK locos set? 😛

[snow carbon]

Depends on your definition of comprehensive :D

Pretty sure it has a gronk

[latent quail]

https://www.flickr.com/groups/1191229@N23/pool/with/37340933034

[snow carbon]

Currently far more comprehensive than RUKTS in terms of steamers, far less in terms of units, and far behind horse in terms of wagons

[void roost]

1px of height and I think 1px off the roof? It’s much more noticeable on steamers and bigger units

[snow carbon]

I can post my tracking table document thing in a bit if people want

[void roost]

Me and StarRaid did some experimenting trying to find a compromise scale between RUKTS/UKRS2/fine scale and BRTrains/Iron Horse/baseset scale

We were hoping we could share some steam trains between the two sets (maybe with minor modification) and halve the amount of time needed each but we couldn’t get it to work - it’s surprising how much difference 1px makes

[snow carbon]

It's mainly the diagonals I've found

[void roost]

Squash it vertically 1px and then knock one pixel off the top left edge and that’s a rough conversion between the two scales

Like cut and paste the entire top layer and move it down 1px

Then on the furthest top edge from the camera knock off 1px all the way along

It gets you close, depending on the unit

Those vat wagons are gonna be tricky because you lose a pixel of width to make it circular and the width is already at a premium when doing circles in isometric

[snow carbon]

borrowing Ingot Carriers from Horse

[latent quail]

https://tenor.com/view/goldbar-gbf-doggy-gif-18240734

[tawny oar]

one king with an up-sized tender

[snow carbon]

And here's a .grf of the fixed King (and Hall, also gave it the longer tender) and the new carriages. I'll be out of the country for a week so no developing to be done during that time

All thee stuff currently in the set

[tawny oar]

Why did the hall need the longer tender?

[snow carbon]

It had clipping issues too, iirc

[tawny oar]

that doesn't make sense though

i made it the same length as the shire

oh

the Shire's tender is even smaller

huh

if the castle is given the larger tender, does that cause issues?

[snow carbon]

Yes

[snow carbon]

Read here @tawny oar

[tawny oar]

i'll squish the tender down to size then

(also in case it got forgotten, i made the Queen Mary brake van)

[snow carbon]

It did get forgotten, will add it when I get home

[tawny oar]

\o/

[snow carbon]

I also added a "15t" Brake Van by modifying a regular covered Van, because I wanted a break van bigger than the 10t but smaller than the 20t

[tawny oar]

did that too

did you see the 6 wheel brake van?

and a 7-plank scale mineral wagon

[snow carbon]

Have the Mineral Wagon

Have the six wheel break too I think, kinda

Well have the same design but not as a six wheel specifically I think

The 6-wheel looks a little out of scale compared to the 6-wheel tanker but that's just at a glance on mobile, so I might be wrong

[tawny oar]

it's not scaled to the 6 wheel tanker

it's scaled to the other brake vans

i just shoved an extra pair of wheels in the middle

which is what the GWR did IRL

[snow carbon]

One thing I do want to revisit sometime is the way I sort locomotives

Currently it's vaguely by "role"

[tawny oar]

i did have an idea

a stupid idea mind you

[snow carbon]

General Purpose Tank, Passenger Tank, Cargo Tank, General Purpose Tender, Passenger Tender, Express Tender, Cargo Tender, etc

[tawny oar]

instead of the tender locos having their tender hard connected to them

have the locos and tenders seperate

and use a system similar to the brake vans to prevent trains leaving without a tender

as i said though, it's a stupid idea

[snow carbon]

That doesn't really add anything, though, just more clicks

[tawny oar]

hence why i called it a stupid idea

also here's the updated hall

[snow carbon]

I'd considered making buying extra tenders an option, but scrapped it because I both wasn't sure what the purpose would be, nor how it would work graphically because of the existing loco-tender specific sprites

[tawny oar]

tbh, the extra tender's role (reduced breakdowns from age/improved reliability) can be fufilled by a "support coach"

[neat vessel]

Apologies for missing these updates. Looking very good 🙂

[neat vessel]

I wish I could find the book, but if you can find it "Locomotives that Never Were" by Robin Barnes

I have found a few images from it online. I can post them here if agreeable

[tawny oar]

i know that book, it's what inspired the 4-6-2 whisk

turns out i never posted it here

hmm, i think i could bully my muse into making a BR standard 2-8-2 at some point (won't be tonight tho)

[elfin sparrow]

By any chance could you label these as fictional or prototypes in game?

[tawny oar]

myself, no. i'm just the artist

fairy will probably have a parameter that disables fictional engines

my intention is for the whisk to be a subclass of the streak (since that's what it essentially is)

so it would be:

• Streak
  • whisk

[elfin sparrow]

Ahh you’re like me

Though i do code the set, i am just limited to coding similar to others, we don’t have any cargo wagons yet that do like coal and other visible cargos so i wouldn’t know how xd

[tawny oar]

turns out my muse was rather easily bullied into doing it:
idk what to call it

[elfin sparrow]

@snow carbon could all fictional, prototype etc vehicles be labelled as such with additional text in game? I like using such vehicles but i only like to have a handful of them around rather than for like total mainline use etc xd

[snow carbon]

Yes, once the grf is in a more finished state, I'll be doing that in some way

[elfin sparrow]

Excellent thanks

[tawny oar]

what size tender would the 4-8-2 loco's i drew up a while ago need?

the loco's are size 8, but the current tenders are technically size 4.5

as seen here:

[snow carbon]

@tawny oar use this for reference

I'll need to check 33px locos when I can

but I suspect they'll work with most sizes

[tawny oar]

for the time being i'll put the normal pacific and streak tenders with them and then see about building a size 5 tender

[void roost]

Draw them as 5 but overlap 2 pixels on horizontal view and 1px on diagonal and vertical

[knotty marsh]

Even better, overlap the engines cab onto a 5 tender

[void roost]

Isn’t that what I just said? 😂

[tawny oar]

you imply i have any idea on how to do that

[twilit geyser]

I'm sure I've asked before, but what coaches are supposed to go with which multiple units? In the original UKRS2, when you got the right carriage it would re-livery itself to match the multiple unit, does that not happen anymore?

[snow carbon]

Use the special MU Coach

[dire iris]

How do I go about installing this?

[signal pulsar]

Same as any manually installed NewGRF. Put the .grf in your documents/openttd/newgrf folder

[neat vessel]

I have been pondering if there is an update, or if there's anything I can help with

[tawny oar]

honest question, is this dead? or comatose?

[snow carbon]

The latter, but I'm slowly picking it back up. Motivation is hard during periods when my interest in playing is null

[tawny oar]

fair

[neat vessel]

Was just thinking about this yesterday (and checked out the thread)

If there's anything I can help with, conversions etc, do let me know 🙂

[tawny oar]

i reminded myself that this existed when i put my preorder in for Bachmanns new Stanier 8F

can't wait for them to hit stockists

makes hornby's look like a toy

[neat vessel]

Most of Hornby's stuff is embarassing these days

"Here's a model from 1984, but we've stuck some really grainy Beatles sprays on it. Give us £100"

[tawny oar]

tbh most of my "newest" hornby purchases have been from ebay

i won't touch Bachmann's a4's with a 10ft bargepole

[snow carbon]

The main primary first bottleneck is just on my end getting the data sorted in a way that makes it much easier for me to get my program to generate the .pnml for variants, which is just a bit of a pain

[snow carbon]

If anyone wants to have a go at editing these flat wagons to be the same size as the van (vertical view doesn't matter as much) then that'd be neat, could use them for the Mixed Consist Wagon I'm making

[tawny oar]

fortunately there is already a "van-sized" flatbed thanks to the conflat

[tawny oar]

is it OK if i skip this load?

it's an awkward one that is longer than the van-flat and due to being 2 objects, it won't cut down to size like the other loads

also the modern cars are being a bit awkward

[tawny oar]

in order to get the angled pictures to work i have to slice off the back

which kinda wrecks the car
(original image below)

[snow carbon]

The cars are lowest priority in making look nice, so if they don't work that's fine

[tawny oar]

for your inspection:

[snow carbon]

I'll look at it after work today, gotta get going for now

[tawny oar]

the "van-flat" is finished

and i re-submit the shrunken mineral wagon for use in the Mixed Consist Wagon

[snow carbon]

I already have that one, I think

But thanks for the shrinking

[tawny oar]

btw lemme know if you want the shrunken mineral in 2cc

[tawny oar]

so i was going to try and make a van length tanker for the mixed consist wagon

but it turns out the 6 wheel tanker is already the same length:

[snow carbon]

making progress on actually getting my stuff set up again to work properly

Default/Generic-ish Liveries I intend to include for Steam Locomotives:

• BR Green
• GWR Green
• SR Olive Green
• SR Malachite Green
• LNER Apple Green
• LMS Crimson
• Wartime Black
• Industrial Yellow for small tank engines
• Silver for Streamlined Locomotives

[neat vessel]

Could there be an LBSCR "Burnt Umber" in there?

As LMS Crimson works for Midland, Furness Railway etc too, the different greens work for LSWR, LTSR, GCR etc

but a Burnt Umber/Brown would be nice for LBSCR, NBR etc

(A "Caley" Blue might be nice also)

I think there was another Scottish Pre-Grouping Railway, GNoSR? that used brown or yellow

[snow carbon]

It's definitely an option, yeah, I think I had the blue and brown options in a prior version

The main thing is getting a nice set of 8 colours to use for recolouring

The previous LMS Crimson I had was a very dark red, this is more a bright red, probably not as accurate but might look nicer. Need to get good shades for the different greens though

Is there enough of a color difference between BR Brunswick Green and GWR Green (I think they also called it Brunswick Green)?

If people want to mess around with colours for me to try, I'd need a set of 8, ranging from lightest to darkest. As examples:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17-l9hbZ7oysEqDNchUY_gPHDKehaKEI3jrxc3PJ4sM0/edit?usp=sharing
The "Recolour Showoff" shows the current colours used for the different liveries
The colours between [] are for me to put better colour sets in when I have them

[neat vessel]

At TTD scales, no, BR Brunswick and GWR Brunswick are practically identical

[tawny oar]

what would good colours be for BR blue (steam)?

[signal pulsar]

are we sticking to the palette or 32bpp? Ithink plain CC blue would work for that (you can use a recolour sprite to prevent the CC blue from being recoloured to CC)

[tawny oar]

at the moment i got this:

by replacing cc2 (the green cc) with wartime black from this chart

(the br blue on the chart is 70's diesel blue, not express blue)

thoughts? (feels a little too dark for my tastes)

[tawny oar]

also if we wanna be pedantic, the tender should have the 4 yellow pixels replaced with 1 or 2 in the middle

[snow carbon]

Either works; I can use any colours, even palette colours, and make them 32bpp to have them not recolour, I imagine

[snow carbon]

It does feel rather dark, yeah

The way my recolouring program works atm is that it goes through a folder full of images, compares the filename to a list that says what colour sets to recolour to, and then recolours according to a 16-colour set, where the first 8 replace CC1 and the second 8 replace CC2 (So since these are full recolours, it replaces both CC1 and CC2 with the same 8)

[snow carbon]

Currently I have these colours; I'm not sure about SR Malachite/Olive, and LMS Crimson is probably too dark, might stick with Maroon as a stand-in for LMS liveries. Also unsure about Umber

[signal pulsar]

I feel like it's missing a yellow/light brownish one

like the LB&SCR

or the Highland Railway

[snow carbon]

I have actually marked down to potentially include something like that, just a matter of getting a nice set of colors for it

Unless maybe the "teak" colour included in default UKRS2 (given to coaches when attached to an LNER loco) could work (bottom on the list)

[snow carbon]

I think it actually works quite well

The main question for me is still the five greens, if they need to be shifted around a bit or changed or left as-is, as well as if the Crimson is worth keeping or if it's too dark

[signal pulsar]

I'd definitely keep the Crimson, it looks great

I think the Malachite looks far too radioactive, it needs to be toned down and a hint more bluish

[snow carbon]

Trainz isn't a primary source, but I think it's good as like, a reference point for what it should roughly look similar to

[signal pulsar]

Tried tweaking it

[knotty marsh]

I like the radioactive Malachite

But I think the Crimson is too dark

[snow carbon]

If people give me 8-color sets I can very easily generate spritesheets in them to try out

so I can try it on different locomotives

[snow carbon]

Alternate Crimson and Malachite options, originals at the bottom

[oblique hound]

Prefer the definition on the original crimson

[snow carbon]

Added some carriages

The new Malachite is growing on me quite a bit. The new Crimson... I like the color range but yes it needs to be refined a bit, right now it's just using a generated palette. SR Olive is nice but idk if it's appropriate for the actual color used.

[signal pulsar]

The old Malachite is basically what I used for these containers in JP+

[snow carbon]

The new Crimson livery was generated using the colours used in Su1phur's British Rail Extended Train Set, could do with a bit more refining though

[signal pulsar]

Yeah it needs more contrast but the colour is nice

[snow carbon]

Bottom is slightly adjusted

Here's the current palette for the bottom one

[knotty marsh]

I think you can further emphasize the brown on the GWR Coaches

[knotty marsh]

Yeah imo the new one looks a lot better. Both looks good to me

[snow carbon]

It's the default "Wood" colour used in UKRS2, here it is on a full carriage

[snow carbon]

I might see about yoinking more colours from you, you've got a few nice ones

[knotty marsh]

Wait why my set specifically

It's all rendered, I draw nothing

[snow carbon]

Because it has the colours and is in higher detail, mainly

I'm not sure which other sets have Real Colour steamers

[knotty marsh]

I get ya GETS

[snow carbon]

Not British!

[snow carbon]

the Crimson looks less nice in-game at proper scale than it does up close, need to work on it more. As well as fix that Express Blue and Brunswick Green are flipped. And some other weirdness with variants

[signal pulsar]

Crimson still looks way too flat compared to the other liveries, it needs more contrast

Just take another colour and play with the HSL sliders 😉

[tawny oar]

express blue and brunswick green are swapped

[snow carbon]

"As well as fix that Express Blue and Brunswick Green are flipped"

[tawny oar]

ah

sorry just woke up, eyes still calibrating

[snow carbon]

Finally managed to fix some ID issues

Now I need to go see if Badges are a thing yet

[tawny oar]

nitpick about express blue on the streak & streamlined 608

the lower half is meant to be black

not blue

[snow carbon]

so for which of these should the red bits become black rather than blue

(For the Express Blue livery)

[tawny oar]

only the streaks and 608 - streamlined

everything else is fine

[snow carbon]

What about the 604 STreamlined

[tawny oar]

that's LMS streamlining

not LNER streamlining

and the LMS streamlining was removed before express blue was introduced

[snow carbon]

And the footballer?

[tawny oar]

yes

also you need to do the same for brunswick green

they also had black

anyways i gotta go to work

[latent quail]

Enjoying the completionism

[snow carbon]

It's very easy for me to incorporate it with the setup I have now

[tawny oar]

Helps that I am knowledgeable about liveries.

[neat vessel]

Glad to see much discussion here 🙂 Loving the inclusion of the LBSCR/Highland colours

[elfin sparrow]

yeah its nice to see things active here again

https://noeldelgado.github.io/shadowlord/#006600

@snow carbon

this is what i use to make new colours

iirc i set the % difference to 15

wait its changed

[elfin sparrow]

lemme find the one i know

i saved it somewhere

[snow carbon]

Bookmarking this regardless-

[neat vessel]

I can't help but feel this would be a much easier task if the LNER and later BR hadn't messed about with A4 liveries so much 😄

[elfin sparrow]

SORRY

it is the right site

it just looked really wrong because i had dark mode on

with dark mode

without

xd

[snow carbon]

The main things I need to figure out atm are if badges are in yet and how to use them so I can make passenger wagon gangways look right again, and see if it's at all possible to make what railtype they're on parameterable - I like running them on Narrow Gauge atm since that looks nicer with JP+ tracks

[elfin sparrow]

if i was choosing orange i'd personally choose this range of colours, but my set does have a slightly more realistic range of colours so it might not work for you

bottom is 2cc red and white and the top is mine, as you can see i have a less saturated vibe in my set, you'll also see that 15% provides slightly less contrast than vanilla colours, so you might want to set it to 16 or 17%, i found 20% to be too much

[snow carbon]

One fun part about livery variants is being able to use it to represent different 'class' coaches. Multi-colour passenger trains are fun

[frank kettle]

Changing gauge shouldn't be hard

[tawny oar]

perfect

[tawny oar]

careful or i might start putting the class colour stripes on the HST coaches

[tawny oar]

BR messed with all the liveries, not just the A4s

[knotty marsh]

If you guys thought LNER and BR messed with liveries, you guys clearly haven't looked at the Coronations. Anyways, off topic we go.

[knotty marsh]

(Speaking of) Looks fantastic btw

You should have the silver streak on Caley Blue btw, that's what their blue livery was

[snow carbon]

Can do that easy enough

[neat vessel]

True, but the A4s were the most egregious, between LNERs umming and arring, and BR doing their experiments in the late 40s and 50s

[snow carbon]

I think the Streamlined Coronations now have the most liveries

better

Seperated the two blues for this

[snow carbon]

Test GRF, for those who want to mess about it with it

Here's the version for those who want to run it on Narrow Gauge. Have yet to make it into a parameter

[tawny oar]

ah yes, (LNER) Garter Blue and (BR) Express Blue

[tawny oar]

blame my model railway collection entering the "snowball" phase thanks to me getting a job

[latent quail]

I have to unsnowball mine and am about to ebay quite a lot…

[tawny oar]

you got anything BR early crest period in 00 Gauge?

particularly br grey mineral wagons/7 plank wagons

i need about 60 of them and currently i have 20-ish

[latent quail]

I have a shoebox of bachman 16 ton in grey / bauxite, some of which I need to sell

And I have another box of vent vans and similar

And I have some 1950s period tankers, accurascale coil wagons and other similar things

[tawny oar]

got pictures?

also are the 16 ton wagons NEM fitted?

[latent quail]

Can’t remember am away from home currently

DM me so I have a reminder, I’ll send images in the next few days?