2cc Trains (Revival) Dev thread

[uncut hazel]

https://github.com/nemethviktor/2ccts_revival/blob/master/gfx/Templates/PNG/TPL_04S.png

there is a psd version as well if you operate with psd files

https://github.com/nemethviktor/2ccts_revival/blob/master/gfx/Templates/Wagons/TPL_04ABS.psd

some layers might need unhiding

i'm about to head out a bit and won't be around much tomorrow but i'll stick my head in whenever i can

[full swallow]

Yooo new north korea intercity train design

[uncut hazel]

Duh. They are improving. When I was there they still only had the old German metro and now they have intercity magic. Funny thing is tho that travel is so tightly controlled there that I genuinely doubt this would be for domestic use. Perhaps export to Russia.

[full swallow]

Top speed probably between 144-201 kph

Or 80 if they are running on the dprk tracks

[uncut hazel]

Basically you can't travel within the country without the written permission of your manager and you need a valid reason for it in the first place such as a funeral or similar magnitude. People don't own cars and so most bicycle but if you wanna get on the domestic transport services you need permission. So fancy stuff like this would run empty and in all fairness the country doesn't have the money to burn on this stuff for their own selves. So prob would sell them to China or Russia

[full swallow]

High chance in china

Now I remember a photo of these where they were pulling some box cars

[uncut hazel]

Local dprk roads are made for military use. Wide as hell but no cars as nobody has any.

[full swallow]

Most dictatorship countries build wides roads for a few purposes

[uncut hazel]

Sending photos from my phone is painful...

[full swallow]

Cool photos

Fun fact there are stars on the side of the busses to differentiate the newer and older more experienced busses

[uncut hazel]

Ha. Didn't know that. Also bicycles have registration plates.

[full swallow]

That's new

Also I think for every star the bus drivers need to travel about 5000 or 10000 km without an accident

[full swallow]

Ok it's actually 50000

[uncut hazel]

Some random vaguely transport related shots

[full swallow]

Also another fun fact north korea has the oldest trolleybus still in service

It has gone 8 million kilometers, and has 161 "5만" stars. The model is called Chollima 9.25, tail number 3. The reason why Korean people keep it running for more than 50 years is that comrade Kim Il Sung once traveled in it.

[uncut hazel]

Also the Ikarus trolley on the photo never existed. There were only prototypes of the 260T, which weren't exported so that's a home made one

[full swallow]

Interesting

Here's the 9.25 model

[digital tapir]

Some 260s and 256s(?) were converted to trolley busses in DPRK

[digital tapir]

In Poland bicycles used to have number plates till 50s or 60s if I am correct

[uncut hazel]

I only saw the one on the photo, we weren't allowed to wander too much. Even for that someone came after me to take back to the group, albeit I only wandered off like ten meters.

[uncut hazel]

Comrades wanted to know who is up to what I guess. Can't have it with generic bikes.

[digital tapir]

Thay weren't that much backwards.

Since 70s or 80s there is an electric locomotive factory, which produces domestic deigns (Red Flag) based on Skoda licence

[uncut hazel]

Still? I mean I understand that when the Soviet block was around then Skoda may have licensed to them as friendly country but is that an ongoing thing?

[digital tapir]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/17/Songun_Red_Flag-class_locomotive.jpg

[uncut hazel]

That looks pretty 80s indeed:)

[restive bobcat]

That's in the North Korean trainset already

anyway I just posted the improved heavyweight coaches to the github

[uncut hazel]

Yes, thank you. I'm about to head in to the office so won't be around to poke the set till later today but I'll get to it soonish.

[full swallow]

Here's some concept design

[digital tapir]

Goerlitz double-deck arcticulated coach, from Polish Rolling Stock

And new graphics for the DR1A, from xUSSR set

Recoloured and shortened by me

the double decker has also opened door sprites, so You can mix tham (these coaches had manual doors and sometimes operated with doors opened on the move

http://www.interlok.info/GoerlDpPLGesamt.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dN4Kpqx5b0I

[uncut hazel]

Thanks! I'll try to add them tomorrow when I'm around a bit more

[digital tapir]

now we have to ask ourselves... what intro date and capacity to use...

the postawar version started production in 1952, but there was also an prewar version which was manufactured in small series

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/94/LBE_Doppelstockwagen.jpg

[restive bobcat]

Didn't those support push-pull?

[digital tapir]

prewar:yes
postwar:some versions yes, some not

[uncut hazel]

ref the Goerlitz, you know we don't have articulated coaches in the set by the way. I mean the sprites you have will be just normal random-chance normal-length sprites...

[digital tapir]

I placed the graphics like in the talgo set

so the 1st and last coaches should be diffrent

[uncut hazel]

yes but i'm guessing that you'd like them to be articulated? like 2-part?

[digital tapir]

no

[uncut hazel]

ah ok no probz then

[digital tapir]

I want to have the player able to build the set of any leght

like in talgo sets

[uncut hazel]

ok, i'll add it tonight

[uncut hazel]

me again.
we have this one in the set -- should i replace this with the Goerlitz or that'd be a different one? it is my understanding that they are the same from some earlier convo

I guess tho' this one is p-p whereas the Goerlitz sprite isn't

in the meantime, i've added everything else -> https://drive.google.com/open?id=15M6hdWmnYQWlgP0Xh-UZbEimmLge4TZk&usp=drive_fs

[uncut hazel]

also that's an outstanding question 😉

[digital tapir]

no they arent

The one in the set is an single coach which was an successor to the arcticulated sets that I made

https://obrazki.elektroda.pl/8106038300_1542625492.jpeg

Single coach on the left, arcticulated set on the right

[uncut hazel]

I'm still not sure we're 100% on the same page about articulated here.
Stuff like the various Soviet 2TE vehicles are articulated in the game. We don't have a template for articulated coaches at the moment, so the 04S you are using will be a 50-50 chance of one or the other half of the sprite being instantiated but not articulated like the 2TE stuff

[digital tapir]

I mean, that the player would build it section-by-section, just like the talgo set

and only rendomise the sprites with open and closed doors

2TEs should be able to run as single sections, just as american F and E diesels

in both cases the 2 (or 3) sections were factory standard configuration, but these often operated as single sections

[uncut hazel]

Should, in terms of there were single versions of them but as 2TE they are articulated and there is a setting for those in NML as well as the template being so. So when you purchase a 2TE set, it already comes as a double. I basically just wanted to clarify that this coach won't be like those.

[digital tapir]

it would be very simple to transplant the TEs to the same template as Es and Fs

[uncut hazel]

I copied the values from the other doubledecker so i could build the nml but if you specify other specs i'll change them

[digital tapir]

polish wikipedia claims, that end coaches had 90 seats, intermidiete coaches had 80 but in fact this differred between batches (eg. some batches for Romania had 1st class section with fever seats, and some ealry batches had 5 abrest instand of 4 abrest seats in the lower leverl) so... we can only guess...

Also what number of standing passengers was considered standard is an mystry....

Maybe make the intro date 1952 for the arcticulated one, and 1975 for the single coach

And rise the max speed of the single coach to 160kmh/

[uncut hazel]

Hmm, if the single was 150 then this shouldn't be 80-90 but at least as much as the single. Given that the value would be per car, i'd say we stick to 150

[digital tapir]

1986 was the 1st batch of solo coaches for Poland

[digital tapir]

IRL the single coach was longer than an section of the arcticulated one

and the middle sections were shorter than the outside ones

[uncut hazel]

Yes but the single isn't necessarily for Poland per se. if they were being manufactured from earlier than they shouldn't be from the mid 80s, also the current doubledeck coach is classified as gen3.

[digital tapir]

for domestic german market thay were used from as early as 1975

the single coaches

[uncut hazel]

Just pinging you over this again (plus ref convo above)

[digital tapir]

for the single coach, polish wiki says
132 seats
total capacity 340 persons
sproduction since 1974

and for the max speed
*bogeys designed for 160km/h but coach approved for 140km/h (Germany), 120km/h (Poland), 100km/h (CzechRepublic)

[uncut hazel]

So if we make the single be 340 ppl then the articulated prob the same or slightly lower...300? or just seats * 2.57 to keep with the other? = 231

[uncut hazel]

Also i renamed the old one

[restive bobcat]

Looks fine to me

[uncut hazel]

Btw I updated the various designs you provided (Google drive link a few comments up)

[full swallow]

Awwwww it looks so cuteeee

Btw it's a yam class

[restive bobcat]

Ah thanks, that was quick 🙂

There's a few things that bother me graphically after seeing them in-game so I'll send updated graphics files at some point

Hmm it's kinda unfortunate that you can't sort by country anymore, surely the badge system can make it so that a vehicle is assigned multiple countries?

[uncut hazel]

That can, but Excel can't, because it's a dropdown value. Also because badges were visually bound to countries (aka flags), multi-choice would have been chaotic.

[restive bobcat]

Oh ok, maybe there can be another solution at some point

[digital tapir]

metre-gauge loco?

[full swallow]

Yep

[digital tapir]

didnt knew that India had NG electrified lines!

[full swallow]

Used to

Up until 2004

[restive bobcat]

What's the deal with these? They are nearly identical but they look nothing like what they're supposed to be. If you want an AC6000CW I'd suggest adapting the Dash 9 sprite instead - maybe just stretch it to 9/8 or something.

Also this has the wrong name, not sure where the Skoda came from. It was intended to be a Prussian G 10 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_G_10 so it should be available in all European regions too.

I guess because it was given a Czech designation in the original set for gap-filling reasons, it was mistaken for a different locomotive

A bunch of engines still have the blue pixels around them. Only the Oceanian engines drawn by Ragin seem to be affected. The highlighted one seems to be suffering from other problems too

[digital tapir]

6Lo looks diffrent

https://transportpedia.org/vehicle/skoda-6lo-40lo

[restive bobcat]

Ah that makes sense, the 6Lo was ČSD 534.0, the G 10 was ČSD 534.1

[digital tapir]

the digits in front of the coma in CSD designations mean

1. number of driven axles
2. max speed class ((digit+3))*10)
3. weight/axle (route aviavability) (digit + 10)

The 1st digit after coma denotes the series/class/type

and the next digits are loco's running number

[restive bobcat]

Ah interesting, didn't know that

Hm, some G 10s were also converted to broad gauge

[full swallow]

A bo-bo-bo ?

[restive bobcat]

Oh you're right, the XPT power car is a bo-bo-bo when it shouldn't be. Only the proposed Thai version was bo-bo-bo

[digital tapir]

the numeric designation can be prefixed with letters which can be combined

E - electric loco for DC
S - electric loco for AC
A - electric loco powered from batterries
T - diesel loco
U - narrow gauge

[digital tapir]

Now I wonder, where to put the fuel tank for an B0-B0-B0 diesel loco....

this layout makes more sense for electrics

[restive bobcat]

There are a few Japanese diesels that are bo-bo-bo, like the DF50 and DF200

[digital tapir]

DD51 is B0-2-B0

here more details on CSDs system

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kryšpín's_system

[uncut hazel]

this was the old one -> https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lokomotiva_534.0 that says 6lo

[uncut hazel]

The sprite for both these was originally the amtrak fl9 but i don't remember how they got there, someone must have requested

[uncut hazel]

I'll replace that one in the meantime

[uncut hazel]

@restive bobcat added the new mp54s
the old one has been disabled so you might get a warning about it if you have a savegame

[restive bobcat]

Ah neat

small correction, the unpowered coaches should pe P54 since they don't have a Motor

[uncut hazel]

You mean all coaches? I can't call the powered commuter coach MP and the nonpowered P, that'd be a whole specific level of coding just for this one.
If you prefer I can generally name them [M]P54

[restive bobcat]

Do they share a string somehow? The EMU and coach are supposed to be completely separate things

[uncut hazel]

Yea I think i misunderstood you. You'd like the commuter and the mail to be P, right? If so, that's ok

[restive bobcat]

Yes that's what I meant

[restive bobcat]

Looks heaps better, still not sure why it needs to be 2 separate locos though

are they different gauges?

[uncut hazel]

Yes, though that probably shouldn't be a problem. The all-american version has standard and broad. I think this was from the time when we had operator-based naming because the sprite mentions BHP specifically. I should prob merge them though.

[restive bobcat]

Ah yes, Big Hole

[uncut hazel]

Anyway, merged them, now there is just one

[limber creek]

Did I do a separate sprite for the AC6044CW?

I swear I did

[uncut hazel]

I looked for it but couldn't find

[limber creek]

Lemme check my docs

Apparently I didn't do an AC6000CW

I was confusing it with the SD9043MAC I think

[uncut hazel]

You also had some emu or some such that has the 6000 string in the name, I don't have the PC open now but I did search. Alas I took your dash9 and made it longer 😉

[limber creek]

That would probably be the 6000 series from chicago

Also wdym made the dash 9 longer?

It was already 8/8

[uncut hazel]

Now it's 9 long.

[uncut hazel]

Jake said so 🙂

[limber creek]

Ah fair

[uncut hazel]

In all fairness it's 23 meters long so 8 would be a bit short. Except I struggle with the diagonal pixel locations so I try to make stuff 9 rather than 10 because I already have a tendency to mess it up in any length and the longer the worse

[limber creek]

valid

in my scale I'd probably keep at it 8/8

I prefer to leave 9/8 and 10/8 for special stuff where the extra length can stand out

[uncut hazel]

fair. in my mind 8/8 is around 20m and then each 2 meters extra would be an extra eight but given that i didn't draw most of the sprites and i'm particularly bad at it i don't really 'enforce' this at all.

[limber creek]

yee, that's the scale I operate on

2.5m is ~1/8

but I try and limit things to 8/8 max just for ease of use

[digital tapir]

8/8 is the easiest to form trains from

I dont mind shorter units, but longer units make the trains uber long, and thus require other thought whan designing railroad networks

[uncut hazel]

Polling for opinions. I think we're generally good for a decent pack here. I'm off from 17 July for about a month. So if we release nowish people can play but any feedback would get delayed reaction. Or we can release in late August, though I'm unsure there's a genuine need for an almost two months delay between now and then?

[digital tapir]

I think that we can do an release before You are off, although last time I checked there were still some gauge/region mistakes in diesel locos

[uncut hazel]

We don't have to do it today as such. If you still see issues, shout, I can amend, we can release any time before 17th

[digital tapir]

Went flip through the list of the diesels

DB Kof II/DB 322 - add all european regions, add narrow gauge
BMAG 'WR 200 B 14' - remove eastern europe and broad gauge, I confused it with the V36 aka WR360
GE 44-ton switcher - add narrow and broad gauges
ALCO/AE Goodwin DL500 - delate North American, African, western, northern and eastern european regions, add narrow gauge
English Electric 'Bakkie' - add northern europe as this is very similer to certain class of british shunter (forget which one)
NOHAB AA16 - remove non-european regions
Krauss-Maffei V200 - add eastern eruope (Albania), add broad gauge (Spain)
ALCO/AE Goodwin DL-500B - merge with ALCO/AE Goodwin DL500 ?
CKD T 435.0 - MAYBE add western Europe as some operated in GDR as series V75?
ALCO/AE Goodwin DL531/532 - remove North American, Western European, Northern European, Southern European and African regions
Electroputre 060-DA - add broad gauge, add Southern Europe (Italy, Spain), add Western Europe (Germany)
VEB LKM V180 - rename to VEB LKM V180 B'B'
CKD T-669 - add northern europe, thus Baltic States
LTZ M62 - add Southern Maerica becouse Cuba?
LEW V100 - add Western Europe as these also operated in Netherlands?
EMD F40PH - add southern american region (Panama)
Siemens ER20 'Eurorunner' - delate southern european and northern european regions
Voith Maxima 40 CC - add eastern european region

[uncut hazel]

Thanks - updated -> https://drive.google.com/open?id=15M6hdWmnYQWlgP0Xh-UZbEimmLge4TZk&usp=drive_fs
The ALCO DL5xx's need a bit of checking because they were 'all region' so i deducting particulars may not have been perfect.
Also I'll head out soonish but will eventually beback

[digital tapir]

ABB/Brush Class 92 - add western europe (France), Eastern Europe (Bulgaria, ex-Yugoslav states)

[digital tapir]

Recoloured an Ol49 from PKP set, for estern european and asian region

Also made some (crude) animation sprites

[uncut hazel]

Hey, thanks -- just to confirm, this is a new vehicle, right?
Smh. Ignore that question, it's a new sprite for an existing vehicle. I'll amend. Thank you!

[digital tapir]

new vehicle, I dont think we had an ol49 before....

[uncut hazel]

We do...
https://github.com/nemethviktor/2ccts_revival/blob/master/gfx%2FSteam%2FFablok_2_6_2_OI49.png

[restive bobcat]

Doesn't hurt to replace some of the crustier old sprites with nice ones 😅

Eh, the old wasn't bad as far as Voyager steamers go

[uncut hazel]

Agreed

[restive bobcat]

I should retemplate some NARS steamers as well

[digital tapir]

i am not the author of the new one

I just retemplated and recoloured it

[digital tapir]

so, it had graphics ready, but wasnt on the roster?

[uncut hazel]

It should be there. I'll have a second look later, I'm on my phone now

[digital tapir]

ok, it is

[restive bobcat]

EMD FT and E3 should be A/B units, not articulated

[uncut hazel]

in theory they are a/b heads but i think they are coded to be articulated. are the a/b heads that work okay?

i've updated the grf on google drive with your new github changes

[restive bobcat]

The older A/B units work fine, apart from a minor misalignment (but that might be due to the sprites themselves, I'll have to check)

Ah the F40PH is mistakenly coded as articulated too

[uncut hazel]

the ones you flagged are template 03D both but there's also one for 03F so need to figure out if that makes any difference

as in 03F is also flagged as a/b unit

[restive bobcat]

These purchase sprites should be single units too because these aren't A/B units

[uncut hazel]

one thing at a time pls 😄
f40ph is a totally different template actually

[restive bobcat]

f40ph should use the asymmetric template, not articulated

SDP40F is correct apart from the purchase sprite

[uncut hazel]

these are all 03D

[restive bobcat]

Those are articulated locos

sorry I don't know your arbitrary template codes 😛

[uncut hazel]

that's ok. neither do i 😄
but what i meant was that all those would be have identically in the current setting

[restive bobcat]

and what I meant that the FT and E3 are mistakenly coded as articulated

[digital tapir]

from what I know FTs were permanently coupled A-B sets

[restive bobcat]

The FT was a bit of a funny one yeah. But until flipping of articulated vehicles is enabled, it's impossible to make an A-B-B-A set

[digital tapir]

ohhhhhh sh..... here we go again...

some were also permanently coupled A-B-A or A-B-B sets if I am correct

[full swallow]

5 hours into coding

[restive bobcat]

That's why it should be player controllable 🙂

[digital tapir]

insert shinkansen motor cab cars running with coal trucks in between here

[full swallow]

Or an acs-64 pulling 19th century coaches at 217 kph 😂

[digital tapir]

2TEXXXs changed to be purchase-able as single sections? (with correct power and weight, which You can take from xUSSR set)

[uncut hazel]

ok so if i set the E3 to be nonarticulated A/B then the user will have to buy 2 counts of E3s and manually put them as AB

I assume the thumbsup is what people would like 😄

[restive bobcat]

Yes, that's how A/B units should work

[uncut hazel]

same for FT
(the upper is manually added together, the lower is "single")

[restive bobcat]

then it becomes an A-B-B-A set when you put 4 together

It would be even nicer if it behaved like NARS or NARP, where ctrl-flipping the last loco in a set makes it an A-unit, but I digress

[uncut hazel]

this one (speficially? we have 2te10m at the moment, i'm assuming this would be its normal version?)

[digital tapir]

long story short
these without the digit 2 at the begining were designed for opeartion as single section both ways (either had cabs on both ends or an cab with visibility 2 ways as the TE114)
these with the digit 2 at the beginging had an cab at the front of the section and an accordeon gangway (like in passenger coaches) at the 2nd one, and TYPICALLY operated as twin sets (the same running number on both sections, but with A and B sufixes), BUT each section was in fact an full-fledged loco, and often operated independently, although it had to be turned around on an turn table or weye at the end of the line

it's a lot like in the american F and E series locos

[uncut hazel]

You have to remember I'm actually pretty dumb to most rail things outside Hungary. 😄 - so I'll take that as a yes (that you'd like the TEP10L here)

[digital tapir]

example of single-section operation of an 1 cab section

https://wrphoto.eu/data/media/234/b2te10m-3228krk.jpg

[uncut hazel]

Btw we do have tep10l already
But look - I need a name for these most of all. I comprehend that the 2TE10M could be run as a a 'TE10M', and I can call it that, just says that that's the right thing.

[uncut hazel]

that ok? 🙂

[digital tapir]

decent

now delate the 2 section locos, and make the 2nd (attatched by player) section auto-reverse

[uncut hazel]

so it'd be an a/b unit?

but it's been an a/b unit so far

i don't have a code or template for vehicles to auto-reverse if they aren't ab units

[digital tapir]

just make it a and b units

that should be fine

[uncut hazel]

ahh i think i know what you're after

[restive bobcat]

Those aren't A and B units, they're asymmetrical single-ended locomotives

B-unit refers specifically to a unit with no cab

[uncut hazel]

Pitagoras said he wanted a single unit whose second instance autorotates...(?)

[restive bobcat]

Yes, that's what the asymmetrical template is for

[uncut hazel]

We don't have such a template

[restive bobcat]

Yes we do, it's the one that flips every other loco

[uncut hazel]

Can you pls name an item that is on such a template and I'll find it

[restive bobcat]

SDP40F and DF5 for example

[uncut hazel]

yeah these are that too now. apart from the 126 because it's longer

[restive bobcat]

That's for single ended locos without a B-unit

[uncut hazel]

before you say it's an arbitrary ID, just pointing out that all templates of the same kind behave identically

[restive bobcat]

so why are the E3 and FT there? what does the E8 use?

[uncut hazel]

E8 is a long vehicle so it uses a different one.

[restive bobcat]

No it's 8/8

[uncut hazel]

nevermind you're correct

it uses this

[restive bobcat]

So that's the A/B unit template

I think we need a translation table for the template codes and their actual uses/names

[uncut hazel]

There is one but it's pretty crappy. https://github.com/nemethviktor/2ccts_revival/tree/master/gfx
There's a readme at the bottom.

[restive bobcat]

Ah I see the confusion

03D says A/B unit when it actually means articulated engine

for clarity, A/B unit should not refer to an articulated vehicle, it's very specific terminology

[uncut hazel]

would this be ok?

• '03D' -> Non-Steam, NOT A/B, Single Articulated
• '03F' -> Non-Steam NOT A/B, Single NOT articulated

[uncut hazel]

reminder that these are 3F

these are 'd'

[restive bobcat]

OK it's a little convoluted but I understand it better now

03D is for non-animated articulated engines, 03F is for asymmetrical single-unit engines

[uncut hazel]

i'll put that on the readme and the template psd

i won't reupdate all the png templates because there are quite many of them but if the readme and py and psd are valid that usually does the trick

[restive bobcat]

Great, I'll reference your codes from now on to reduce confusion 🙂

[uncut hazel]

if possible please 🙂 -- or you can, if more convenient, reference an item that is what you're talking about at the time and i can back-search the template.

and so then LTZ_2TE126 is non-animated articulated engine (long), and LTZ_TE126 would be asymmetrical single-unit engines (long)
right?

the whole crazy template "naming" logic comes from that when i started i unleashed gemini on the various 600ish items and had it separate things into different templates and there were give or take 80 of them. hence the stupid numbers where we go from 16 to 17 to 25 to 32 and 42. then the others have been eliminated into subsections like 03d or 03f but there haven't been any sensible naming applied and then the whole thing stuck as-was

[digital tapir]

goooooooooood

Now we need to add the 2 back to these sections which were manufactured only as single cab
-2TE10M
-2TE126
-2TE10Ut

[uncut hazel]

ermm...you said remove them...

[digital tapir]

only for locos designed for 2way operation of single section

[uncut hazel]

Okay, you'll need to ELI5 this to me please.
You asked to remove the three you flagged. They've been removed and replaced by single units. You'd like them back. Or if not, then can you please let me know precisely what names and what items you'd like added or removed.

[digital tapir]

i like tham back, becouse these locos IRL always had the digit 2

[uncut hazel]

if not what you'd like then elaborate pls

[digital tapir]

delate the ones with the cross, add 2 to these marked with 2

[uncut hazel]

like so?

you meant rename those items 😉

[digital tapir]

looks great!

[digital tapir]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/88/3aw_Bxhpi.png

Hmmmmmmm

speaking about coaches for diffrent gauges how about this

Pafawag 1Aw/3Aw narrow gauge coach

made both for PKP (polish state railways) and for export (over 500 units exported to USSR)

some were evan converted into diesel railcars

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/08/MBxd1_168_Ostrowy.jpg

[uncut hazel]

If someone's willing to draw them I'll add them 😉

[restive bobcat]

Started dumping some Japanese stuff 🙂

[uncut hazel]

Thanks. Keep them coming 😉 - i've updated the googledrive link w/ the ones so far posted

[full swallow]

Do we have any narrow gauge Indian locomotive ?

[uncut hazel]

I'm not at home today but the vehicle info table is on GitHub
https://github.com/nemethviktor/2ccts_revival/blob/master/docs%2Fvehicle_summary.md

[full swallow]

Huh some of them are kinda weird

[restive bobcat]

Not that I know of

Except for the DHR one

[digital tapir]

I decided to make an Faur A20D-P narrow gauge railcar and matching trailer

technical parameters:

motor car: 141kw motor, 60km/h, 62,4t, 39 seats
trailer car: 19 tonnes. 45 seats

[uncut hazel]

Thanks!
Hehe - I just pushed the RC4 version to github so this will go into whatever future public release. I'll update the temporary googledrive file with it soon tho'.
Also as a reminder, I'm off from Friday and won't have access to much of this (perhaps on my phone, but no laptop)

[digital tapir]

years of manufacturing: 1983-1988 region:eastern europe

[uncut hazel]

Quick question tho -- well, a few actually. If these are "engine" types then they should be DMUs instead, yesno? That has a trailer capability per se.

Because with these settings (01b) they'd just be two engines basically

[digital tapir]

single diesel railcar and trailer

This type of trailer was also widely used in loco-hualed trains. And as we are lacing in narrow gauge coaches....

https://radiokielce.pl/wp-content/uploads/2025/08/Swietokrzyska-Kolejka-Waskotorowa-„Ciuchcia-Ponidzie-11.jpg

trailers in loco-hueled formation, with FAUR L45H

[uncut hazel]

Ok but if the trailer itself is not powered then it's a coach. So I think what you're after is that one is a DMU (which has trailer capability), and the other is a coach. So when people buy the powered stuff, they can add trailers automatically
eg this for the complete set

this for the standalone trailer

[digital tapir]

wait an moment

[digital tapir]

will it be able to operate as single motor coach?

[uncut hazel]

It should. But give me a sec

[digital tapir]

or maybe better replace the rear vehicle with the copy of the middle one

the motor coaches didnt had multiple-working capability....

[uncut hazel]

Ok. I'll leave the engine as normal engine and have the trailer as wagon, ok?

I think it's similar to what Jake did with the MP45 thing

[digital tapir]

the manufacturer suggested operation in formation

[motor]+[trailer]+[trailer]

but on more hilly lines due to low motor output only 1 trailer could be pulled

[digital tapir]

so, I should re-template the trailer?

[uncut hazel]

don't worry, i'll work around it

[digital tapir]

if I will find an base for modyfining I will make faur L45H and NG pafawag coach

[restive bobcat]

Don't the single unit railcars have coupling restrictions currently? It would be better if those were removed

[digital tapir]

I dont think so

[uncut hazel]

they do, but what Jake is talking about is a railbus

whereas this will just be an engine

you can't hook anything after a railbus

[digital tapir]

in the first (pre-transmission to NML system) versions of thay couldnt huel anything, but in the NML versions thay could

[digital tapir]

and here we go again.... A lot of railcars were used for pulling AND a lot of tham were accually designed for this!

[restive bobcat]

Yes, I think that restriction should be removed. Some railbuses are designed to haul wagons after all

[uncut hazel]

tbh in that case the whole concept of railbuses is pointless.

[digital tapir]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3b/Motorový_vůz_854%2C_Neratovice.jpg/1280px-Motorový_vůz_854%2C_Neratovice.jpg

Note the gangway (present only on the non-motor end)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7f/20120825_SN61-168_Imgp8395.jpg/1280px-20120825_SN61-168_Imgp8395.jpg

[restive bobcat]

It's not, a railbus can be any single unit vehicle that carries passengers. It's a useful distincton from a normal engine which doesn't carry passengers

Anyway you can always get around the coupling restrictions using the invisible engine. In fact adding wagons to railbuses was one of the reasons I made the original back in 2011

[uncut hazel]

Okay but in this case the Faur will be an engine, not a railbus. Then that the user wants one of them or a dozen, it's up to them. Railbuses can't attach/haul, engines can.

[restive bobcat]

In that case, some other railbuses could be converted to engines so that they can haul stuff too

[digital tapir]

sooooo more research....

https://klipy.com/gifs/ah-shit-here-we-go-again-cj

generally if an self-proppelled railcar has standardised (ie. used on it's railway network) couplars it is safe to say that it can pull things other than dedicated trailers

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8a/SWEG_NE81_126_RFW.JPG

[uncut hazel]

You appreciate that this information isn't readily available in my excel sheet 😄

https://github.com/nemethviktor/2ccts_revival/blob/master/docs/vehicle_summary.md
this is the current vehicle summary by the way, if you search for railbus it will show things classified as such

ref faur

I know I have caused a bit of confusion with the templates (sorryyyy) and it's all good but for future ref can you use 01A (head) and 04U (coach) please if the setup is as for the Faur

01B is obsoleted and there's some code logic that makes coaches behave in certain ways even if they otehrwise look like very simple stuff

I should prob do some simple table with this templating thing because the lengthy readme is convoluted.

...like I had to go through it myself and it's not user friendly

[digital tapir]

sweeeeet

[digital tapir]

the trailer should weight 19 tonnes

[uncut hazel]

sorry. mixed up with the seats value

[digital tapir]

capacity could be multiplied by, like 1,5 to emulate standing passengers?

[uncut hazel]

You tell me. 🙂 - I think we're a bit unstructured in the standing cap count.

[digital tapir]

sadly standing passenger capacities are

1. hard to came by
2. rated diffrently in diffrent countries

and this is both for trains and for busses

generally asian countries tend to allow more persons/squere meter of train/bus floor than european countries

https://klipy.com/gifs/-M21

[uncut hazel]

I think the idea is if a particular coach is used with standing pax they get standing counts. The trouble is that at least in countries i've been to, even IC coaches are used standing when there is a need for it, even though they weren't designed so. Not officially anyway.

[digital tapir]

in the rush hours capacity tends to be how many people can get in and get the doors close

[uncut hazel]

A lot of this goes back to the various definitions of things. At some earlier stage there was discussion that metros (in the game) tend to have standing cap, others don't. Except that a metro is just an emu and while at it, not all metros run on third rail IRL (more precisely my example was the Elizabeth Line in London, which is metro in everyone's mind but 25kV OHLE) and I think whichever Chinese/HK/SGP metro in this set already has some 450ish cap per coach because that's what wiki says. Ah and it's also OHLE iirc.

So numbers ultimately come down to what we code. If you (as an individual or a group) feel that Faur trailer should have a 1.5x multplier, it will have such 😉

[digital tapir]

buuuut game balance....

[obsidian hornet]

standing passengers is something i deal with in my set

[digital tapir]

in the pre-revival version the silverliner 5 (or however it was called) electric railbus was an absolute BOMB as it could go 180km/h, and carried A LOT of passengers.

So basicyl trains composed out of these railbusses (thay are designed for multiple working IRL after all) were one of the better passenger trains

[obsidian hornet]

i use official numbers where they exist and where they dont i compare them to official numbers, look at the vehicle interior and make a guess

i also only give standing capacity to vehicles where standing would be common

[uncut hazel]

Which then reverts to whether we want to allow people to do crazy things. Like...they can technically run (not necessarily in this set but even in the base game yes) a maglev at some 600kmh hauling coal. Is that realistic, physically? No. People can choose to or ignore to. I tend not to use it. But basically if ppl want to run a 10-long 450-each cap train for people, i don't want to stop them from doing so.

[obsidian hornet]

such as metro, s trains and other stuff used primarily in urban areas

[uncut hazel]

Makes sense. I think that's more or less what is being done here, though not strictly enforced.

[obsidian hornet]

mine isnt strict either

ill show an example

[uncut hazel]

Keep in mind that we now have a lot more vehicles available, both in pure counts and across regions. So there's a lot more choice now.

[obsidian hornet]

both these railcars have the same base design but one has huge fuckoff doors and was used on a like in copenhagen

the other was used elsewhere

so the big door one gets more capacity and a faster loading speed

[uncut hazel]

Yeah, Loading speeds aren't really being used in this new set either. There used to be some manual logic for them but I kinda blanked it all with some reasonably average one. Probably not the best idea.

[digital tapir]

huh, this reminds me of one thing...

[obsidian hornet]

i was gonna make the high capacity one slower as it was slower irl but vehicles of these types were limited to 60/80/105 depending on type and location, i thought giving them all different speed limits would make using them together annoying xd

[digital tapir]

Pesa 308B was ment to be used with type 120A coaches as trailers, but this was (to my knowladge) never used in service due to some sort of design error which made the set unstable whan running at higher speeds

[uncut hazel]

Oh even if you look at stuff like London Underground e.g. D stock vs 92 Stock ref doors and loading-speed-equivalent. 92 is wide doors etc, D stock single leaf nightmare

[obsidian hornet]

yeah

[uncut hazel]

...so we can't just say metro-load-speed = 90 (i'm making shit up here)

[obsidian hornet]

i take into account door size and number

[digital tapir]

generally more doors==less seats, so the longer are the distance on which the stock is ment to be used the smaller percentage of the lenght goes to the doors

[obsidian hornet]

i mean, you could

ive set all my s train type stuff to 30

which is pretty fast

[uncut hazel]

currently in fact it is indeed what i'm doing. but if we wanted to make it more finetuned it couldn't be blanked

blanket

[obsidian hornet]

the main exceptions being stuff like the 4th gen s train which is basically all doors, that gets 40

im not sure the 2cc set is one for finetuning such things xd

if i was in your shoes i'd just have 3 different speeds, one for IC, one for RE and one for metro/s-train stuff

[uncut hazel]

agreed. tbh i'm all in favour of laziness and automation. preferably as part of a realistic balance. problem is that i don't personally know a lot of details about individual vehicles and so i have to rely on what info is available. hence the simplification

[obsidian hornet]

balance honestly seems to be what you need to go for

maybe just limit that fucking german thing so it cant couple to anything xddd

[uncut hazel]

should have a class of its own, eh? 🙂

[obsidian hornet]

i mean

ive seen people make whole consists of that thing xd

it probably outclasses everything until at least the 1970s

[digital tapir]

pafawag coach and FAUR L45H loco

I massacred sprites from JP+ (the roof of FAUR looks terrible but yeah....)

I made this from Oha35 and DD13

[uncut hazel]

thanks. details please? 🙂 [usual, stats]

[digital tapir]

Faur L45H: 1964–1990, 32 tonnes, 40km/h 450 horse power motor, region: Eastern Europe, Western Europe, Africa, Asia

Pafawag 3Aw coach: 1954-1960 (including ealier type 1Aw which was made in other factory but was very similer), 60km/h, 39 seats, weight 16.7 tonnes (?) region: Eastern Europe, Asia

an mail version also existed, likely an special export version?

http://750mm.pl/index.php?PHPSESSID=18dc42d87e1a5734c74d2ba985e9c475&action=dlattach;topic=891.0;attach=5696;image

[uncut hazel]

i can do it if you'd like but the 2cc isn't really 2cc at all (not even 1cc) on the pafawag

also you might want to consider raising the faur,, unless it's meant to be super low 🙂

also now that i'm looking at it, the other faur is also 1cc

the a20

[digital tapir]

😭

I thought it was recolourable!

The original sprites had an recolourable version in JP+!

@violet cipher @restive bobcat

I downloaded the sprites from github

[uncut hazel]

i'm literally colourblind (well, that's a misnomer, it's colour vision deficiency), but to me this isn't 1cc/2cc colour

[obsidian hornet]

yeah that doesnt look like 8bbp 2cc

too saturated

[digital tapir]

once again I turned out to be an idiot... an debil

I saw blue and I thought colour change

[obsidian hornet]

those are some nice sprites tho

they look like something i'd draw

[uncut hazel]

in the templates' bottom right corners are a green and a blue box, use those colours

[digital tapir]

I will change the colours tomorrow

but the faur is OK?

[uncut hazel]

the a20 isn't really, if you look on the picutre the blue 1cc colour shows but the cream doesn't

Btw the google drive link is up to date if you'd like

[digital tapir]

what do You mean by cream?

[uncut hazel]

here, my 2nd company colour is cream, but it's not showing

[digital tapir]

it is ment to be just white background with coloured lines

just as IRL

[uncut hazel]

ok but items should be (i'm not saying always are) 2cc -- you can just add a green line if you prefer (?) and then that changes to 2nd cc if you use the colours from the boxes in the template?

[uncut hazel]

Tbh it's all experience. I don't draw but the colours were mighty confusing to me and took some months to vaguely get my head around them. But the same for template logic and designs etc. Now they're generally in the right direction. And the 2cc colours have been added to the templates exactly because I kept messing them up. So don't despair 😉

[restive bobcat]

Not all JP+ wagons are in CC

Anyway let me take care of them, I will recolour a selection of them to add to this set

[digital tapir]

the faster version of series 50 in CC in JP+ whan?

[restive bobcat]

Eventually I want to add CC versions of all the coaches

[digital tapir]

repainted into the correct blue

Maybe add an green (2nd company colour) stripe?

[uncut hazel]

I'm going to be a bit late home today, I'll try to add, else in about three weeks time as I'm flying tomorrow morning

[digital tapir]

also, maybe remove railbus coupling restrictions for the public release?

[uncut hazel]

Remind me in August 😉 - testing that out is probably a bit longer than the little time I'll have today.
There's a recent (as of 2 days or so ago) release candidate on GitHub for a wider audience to play with atm, as the prior one was quite out of date. Prod release later I guess after I'm back

[uncut hazel]

Photo of a photo (I haven't hooked my camera up to anything yet).
Hello from Mongolia

[restive bobcat]

Oh wow, enjoy your trip

[uncut hazel]

Do model trains count?

[digital tapir]

hmmmmmmm

Tu7 diesel locomotive

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/88/Tu7A.jpg

narrow gauge locomotive manufactured in Russia, exported to various countries

there was also an variant called TGM40, which could be ordered for standard or broad gauge

just an random thought on how to improve NG roster

[restive bobcat]

Interesting that it's got the same livery as older Japanese diesels

[digital tapir]

does this qualify as an russel head?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e9/Tgm40c.jpg?uselang=ru

in this photo it literally looks like japanese MOW russel head loco

[restive bobcat]

Kinda similar yeah

[digital tapir]

and as we have the V100 we should add narrow gauge to it, as some of these were rebuild for NG operations to replace aging steam locos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLRBJ3mIqK8

[uncut hazel]

https://www.reddit.com/r/BitchImATrain/s/8I0yqZiG0v

We totally need this (btw I'm still away)

[digital tapir]

TU7/TGM40

years: since 1971
region: Asia, Eastern Europe, Southern Europe, Western Europe, Northern Europe
gauge: all 3 gauges

[uncut hazel]

Thanks -- I'm still away but I'll add upon return

[digital tapir]

(y e s this is made from JP+ DD13)

[digital tapir]

I have some more ideas.

Alsthom CC7100

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/36/SNCF_CC_7102_Pk42_Le_Mee_sur_Seine.jpg

there were also export versions of it

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/dc/E-loc_1312.jpg/330px-E-loc_1312.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/4113/4989369428_c5090e4f0c_b.jpg

but I think that we should merge tham into 1 loco

[restive bobcat]

Could just nab the sprites from the Dutch trainset

[digital tapir]

technical parameters are very similer, only the voltage (1500V DC for france and netherlands,3000V for spain), gauge (broad for spain) and speed (france - 150km/h, spain 100km/h nehterlands 130km/h(

also add it to african region

btw

there was also an AC loco based on this family, exported to USSR and China

https://rollingstockworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/20211224_franczelektrovozy4.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/294/20013030252_9951996630_b.jpg

[uncut hazel]

Ok, I've added this locally plus i think the googledrive link has been updated. Just back and had a decent sleep...:D -- I'll be away most of next week too but around for a few days now.

[uncut hazel]

The actual photos (not of photos)

[uncut hazel]

I know you're not reading this atm but this has been done

[uncut hazel]

2cc Trains in NML Revival 4.0 is now on Bananas!

• Added support for push-pull, badges, track types, voltages etc
• Over 200 vehicles have been added since the original (and last) release of 2cc Trains
• All vehicle stats have been revised
• Vehicles have been renamed to their manufacturers' naming(s)
• Maglev cargo is now optionally available

Please note that the 'revival' newgrf is not backwards compatible with the original 2cc trains newgrf so you can't hot-swap it in savegames
Technically it is possible but it's a major PITA. You'd want to send all your trains to depot (otherwise they'll be stuck perma-unmovably on the tracks), preferably use JGRPP and Template replacements, swap the grf, (re)define templates and then manually clone the vehicles to the new templates. It's doable, I tried it, but mightily unpractical (impractical?).

[full swallow]

F40ph sprite facing wrong side in the purchase menu
The thai and nsw sprite is wrong
Also just on my end so the acs-64 have a lower top speed than the hhp-8 realistically both only operated at 201 kph or just make the acs-64 have the same top speed 😅

[uncut hazel]

Thanks for those!
I think the XPTs were from Ragin's set.

I've now locally fixed the purchase sprite
It will be in the next whenever release

Also locally changed both speeds to 201

Can you be a bit more specific on how the XPTs are 'wrong' please? 🙂

[restive bobcat]

They're the wrong way round, the Thai one should be bo-bo-bo

[uncut hazel]

i think that was the basis for it

[restive bobcat]

Yeah that's the Thai one, it's bo-bo-bo

the real NSW one is bo-bo

[uncut hazel]

Ok I'll re-amend these

thnx

'tis better?

[full swallow]

Yep

Oh btw i din't know the sputnik can be gauge converted

[restive bobcat]

The NSW one? It never ran as anything other than standard gauge

[uncut hazel]

defined as narrow

[restive bobcat]

Yeah that's a mistake, sydney trains were always standard gauge only

[full swallow]

Oh btw also fix this should be a 4-6-2

The a4 is weirdly slower than the 5mt

[uncut hazel]

I think that's from wikipedia -> A4 had a service speed of 140 but the MT5 had a record speed of 154 (but it doesn't say the service speed)

[full swallow]

Yes one of them did reach 154 but under lms operation they only top out between 120-128 kph and a designed top speed of 144kph

[restive bobcat]

The A4 was 160km/h in older versions, just make it that again. Seems like a good compromise

[full swallow]

Technically the a4 maintained a speed between 144-160 in regular service but lner cap that at 144 and regular speed was also 120-128

[full swallow]

Or do this

[restive bobcat]

Other sets like UKRS make it even faster

[full swallow]

185

[uncut hazel]

I'll amend it to 160

[full swallow]

Im probably gonna mint pick all the bugs and inconsistencies

[uncut hazel]

thanks -- that's actually a good thing. i can always do a 4.01 release i guess 🙂

[full swallow]

Ok so this is kinda weird

All the other dutch emu is limited to 140 while the 390 here is 160 although current dutch network does limit 140 but there is some section where they can go 160 so idk depends on you

[uncut hazel]

Thnx - just checked, 140 it should indeed be.

(i speak like yoda today)

[full swallow]

You should fix the top speed of the r class they only reached 115

[obsidian hornet]

Oh yeah

Lowering the A4 is wild

Considering it holds the steam speed record

[uncut hazel]

Yes, but I tried to generally aim towards service speeds rather than record speeds. A lot of things could be faster in the set if we only look at record speeds but tried to balance. Also in a lot of cases service speeds were significantly slower (like crazy slow but strong engines), in many of those cases I yet again balanced.

[obsidian hornet]

Thats not really what I’m saying

The record speed is actually more like 203

My point was that it was weird to gimp the A4, of all things

[uncut hazel]

In the meantime, added 3 Vectrons and now there's dual-mode badge

[full swallow]

Mostly been speed balancing stuff

[full swallow]

Speed should be 200

[uncut hazel]

Thnx, amended those.
There's a nightly of sorts here, https://drive.google.com/open?id=15M6hdWmnYQWlgP0Xh-UZbEimmLge4TZk&usp=drive_fs it's updated each time i do a local build, so it has the recent changes.

[full swallow]

Idk if this is a bug just posting incase

[uncut hazel]

Thanks, I'm out and about but will fix later

[summer hatch]

Interesting choice of some badge labels like flag/WRLD or role/coach__commuter_, other sets also use flag/europe instead of flag/EU

Though technically both of them are correct

[uncut hazel]

Tbh not quite important in this case. Flags have been disabled altogether because there was a longwinded disagreement earlier over this. TLDR is that since we have moved on to manufacturer's designations, we cannot say any longer that MTR something-something is HK or China but then many items are made and designed in international cooperation, so in that case, which flag. Also disagreements over historical issues here and there.

[summer hatch]

Yeah not quite important just interesting

[uncut hazel]

Also new - dual mode vehicles support power and speed differences (though in this case speed is identical so not shown.)

[uncut hazel]

Pinging for thoughts...carrying mail commercially on metros has been a thing, especially before WW2..I'm considering enabling this feature (without a time limit) because metros can be slow but powerful alternatives to normal rail but are pax-only, which makes is all the more difficult to do a rail-only game without a lot of extra construction.

[restive bobcat]

I think it's a good idea, my current game uses Horse metros for both pax and mail

[sick moss]

I also agree and think that's a good idea, I love using horse mail metro trains as a kinda London mailrail thing so would definitely see a use in that

[uncut hazel]

Ok, will do, it's a very simple change on my side

The only thing is that existing metro sprites won't differentiate to mail carriages and will all look the same regardless of what is being transported. Alas.

[restive bobcat]

Some old versions did allow metro mail refit too

[uncut hazel]

I'm pretty sure some small details have been lost during the standardisation of the code as things had been all over the place and replicating everything correctly probably wasn't possible. Plus there were a few bugs in the old codes here and there so...
That said I don't think there were/are any metro sprites with mail trailers. It's just a visual thing of course, doesn't affect code

[restive bobcat]

No, old versions didn't have metro mail sprites either

[full swallow]

So every emu now has a pantograph on the coaches although the ones with a pantograph on the locomotives specifically doesn't have this bug

[uncut hazel]

Ok current version https://drive.google.com/open?id=15M6hdWmnYQWlgP0Xh-UZbEimmLge4TZk&usp=drive_fs
I've also revamped some of the running cost logic. Basically there had been no differentiation between the types of locos in the past and wagons were too expensive.

[uncut hazel]

Ha. Ok I'll have a look. I think that's a bug indeed.

[full swallow]

Oh yeah you should increase the 100 series speed cuz it's just a more expensive 0 series

[uncut hazel]

Can do, tho' wiki says they were 210 and 220kmh, so while different, not a lot different.

[full swallow]

Well there's some different varients

[uncut hazel]

ref pantographs, jsut to make my life easier, name one that is incorrect pls rather than me trying to fish it out 🙂

[full swallow]

Could do then

Oh yeah so about the zepelin

[restive bobcat]

Some 100 series could go 240km/h

[full swallow]

Ok so about this

[uncut hazel]

looks ok here. which one were you testing?

[full swallow]

Is it just me or the nose doesn't look the same

[uncut hazel]

I think that was probably my drawing and it's based on something else. I'm pretty bad at these so feel free to make a better one 😉

[full swallow]

100 series zephiro one and the 700 series

[uncut hazel]

ahh i think i know what the issue is

you're using powered (not unpowered)

yes so the logic is that if the template is such that it differentiates powered/unpowered then we take it

[full swallow]

Also 700 series speed depends on which line they serve 285 km/h (177 mph) on the San'yō Shinkansen; 270 km/h (168 mph) on the Tōkaidō Shinkansen

[full swallow]

Oh let me try that then

[uncut hazel]

Pick one 😉 -- the set can only have one max-speed

[full swallow]

Yep

[full swallow]

Hmmmmmm hard choice

[uncut hazel]

yes, so there were discussions over this and the overall idea is that if user picks nonpowered only we still show 1 or 2 with panto for the sake of making it look like an actual EMU but otherwise it depends on the template. many EMU sprites are templated so that they don't have panto sprites

[full swallow]

Ah so im taking notes then

[uncut hazel]

eg this one doesn't have them at all

[full swallow]

I'd say 285 for the 700 series

Oh yeah the ft sprite looks off

Turned off the smokes cuz it was hiding

Although ragin's version assuming you borrow the sprites from her for this. is normal

[uncut hazel]

I know you weren't explicitly saying or suggesting this but...I had a look at the mail rail (London) and while it's a cute idea but the problem with adding that specific vehicle would be that there were 3-4-5 generations of it and even if I attempted to draw all of them they'd still be specific to the UK region only. Kinda similar with the normal LU tube stock, I added some of the ones that exist(ed) and that covers the Northern European metro pretty well but I didn't want to add all of them as it'd spam this region while wouldn't add anything to the rest of the game

[uncut hazel]

Somewhat belatedly, fixed. I didn't know how to force-flip the item so i never quite saw it 😄

[uncut hazel]

I've also updated all the sprites I've taken from Ragin. At the time I was derp enough not to bother with the separate pantograph sprites they had and all their electric vehicles in my set have no ptgs - that is now going to be fixed.

[full swallow]

Wait why does northern Europe doesn't have any steam locomotive

[uncut hazel]

I'll have a look once the cat decides to move her ass and stop parking on me so I can get on to the pc.

[full swallow]

Wait found a mistake on my end now they appear

Aw the cat loves you

[uncut hazel]

No worries
Yeah she's gearing up for winter. Even tho she's an indoor cat and the temperature in the flat never goes below 24C she sleeps around me in from September onwards till around March and parks on me around the same period. But not in summer.

[full swallow]

Are these based on the renfe 462 f locomotive?

[uncut hazel]

https://loco-info.com/view.aspx?id=13614&cookies=decline yes

[full swallow]

Ah make sense

So about these so im just curious where did you find their top speed the sources i find list them being 45-50 mph

[uncut hazel]

Not here -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhodesia_Railways_15th_class
I think someone on the forum suggested the top speed. Problem is that the two people familiar with steam engines who are/were contributing on the forum quite actively refused to join the discord channel so interaction w them is a bit of a challenge.

[full swallow]

I see

Shame they would help alot

[full swallow]

....

Idk what to say tbh

[obsidian hornet]

They fear me

[full swallow]

I don't think being a diva would make them avoid this

[uncut hazel]

Mind you i did a quick search on the forum topic and can't find anything related to the speed of this.

[full swallow]

That's weird

Anyway the goat

[uncut hazel]

I'm quite crap at drawing, though i think there are some similar looking items in the set that i could use to merge them into this. Alas if you're up for it, feel free to draw 🙂

[full swallow]

Chaperon have some of the best designs shame that sncf try in every way to destroy it

[full swallow]

I'm curious what tool do y'all use for it though

[uncut hazel]

Some use gimp, i'm more the photoshop person

but if you do decide to draw for this one use the relevant template. i can send if you don't have access to them (they're on github tho)

[uncut hazel]

ok well I've added it but as i told you i can't draw so it's ugly af.
if you want to have a go at whatever's current, https://drive.google.com/open?id=15M6hdWmnYQWlgP0Xh-UZbEimmLge4TZk&usp=drive_fs

[full swallow]

Lol looks like the 9000 class

[uncut hazel]

homework for you: make a better one 🙂 🙂

[full swallow]

Oof

Hmm since my computer is wrecked now not usable anymore probably gonna try to find a way to make it

[uncut hazel]

That's ok. But yeah, I'm not good at drawing, it took me 2 hours just to get the perspective "right" (note the double quotes.) and i was using something already existing, so...if people would like additions, they'll have to do the designs else mine look s...t. But obvs the coding is easy.

Hope you can resurrect at least the RAM in your computer, it's super pricey nowadays.

[slim gazelle]

so theres a mistake for the LTZ 2te126 is that it supposed to have a 6000hp engine instead of 3000hp

[uncut hazel]

Yes, those LTZ 2xx's are a bit of a nightmare. The reason they are as-is is because technically (after some earlier discussion) they aren't really the 2-bundles. You can buy a single one of them but if you buy a second one, it will half-automatically flip on the first to make it look like it's two. The idea is that since they existed as 1 and 2-sets this allows the user to do either without having two different vehicles.

[slim gazelle]

Ok, so you explain the reason of why those 2te's were sold as single unit instead of their actual two, but you don't explain of why the 2te126 has only 3000hp for single unit instead of 6000hp because according to both the Russian Wikipedia and Gemini their power output for 2 section were around 12.000hp meaning that a single unit produce around 6000hp

[uncut hazel]

Because I used the chinese wiki as basis 😄 -- and that says 3060 hp

[slim gazelle]

That's 2te116 it's a different model

[uncut hazel]

ouch. valid point. my bad.

[slim gazelle]

You could add the 2te116 because its like the icon of Soviet/Russian freight railway

[uncut hazel]

Sure, i'll look into that.

Erm...visually the 116 is more or less the same as the 10, right? (ie te10) -- apart from the intakes being flat

[slim gazelle]

@uncut hazel This is the best comparison I could get

Oh yeah don't forget to make it smoke allot

[slim gazelle]

2te10 is the one that has brighter green

[slim gazelle]

You just "rebrand" the 2te10

[uncut hazel]

I can't control the amount of smoke;)
But I think the one I "did" (modified the 10 indeed) should do.

[slim gazelle]

I just think about slug, caboose and control cab

[slim gazelle]

Eh you know what, if I remember correctly this pack has a EMD g26 right, if it is can you send me the image of it I want to try making livery with it

[uncut hazel]

https://github.com/nemethviktor/2ccts_revival/blob/master/gfx%2FDiesel%2FEMD_G26.png

Mind you we don't really have the code logic in place for liveries so the best I can do is replace an existing one if you make a better one 😉

[slim gazelle]

It's quite blurry tho

[uncut hazel]

It wasn't done by me... mind you I'm terrible at drawing so that's not a bad thing. But do remember that these sprites are very small, some 32px wide.

[restive bobcat]

Technically you can, but it's a bit of a hassle

[uncut hazel]

More out of curiousity...how? 🙂

[inland wren]

Via the create_effect callback

[uncut hazel]

Found it. Yeah, nah, too much hassle methinks. 😄

[slim gazelle]

anything that can improve this

[slim gazelle]

fuck the drawing is gone

[restive bobcat]

More roof. See how the 2CC one has 3 pixels of roof and yours only has one. And some shading/texturing of course.

also are you drawing in browser? Just use a desktop program like GIMP or even MS Paint. You won't lose work nearly as easily that way.

[slim gazelle]

oh ok

[uncut hazel]

also be aware of the 2cc colours. red for example may or may not trigger a blinking effect. also the palette is very limited so you can't just randomly pick colours. furthermore try not to change the size and on top of that don't draw large and then hope to shrink it as it won't work visually

basically at the moment you are drawing a specific livery but the set is generic 2cc so we don't really have specific liveries

[slim gazelle]

ok its getting complicated

what palette does 2cc compatible with

[restive bobcat]

Use the DOS palette https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/PalettesAndCoordinates

[slim gazelle]

what if i want to make the color unchangeable

[uncut hazel]

some of it is unchangeable. if you look on the existing sprite the blue and green are changeable, the rest aren't

[restive bobcat]

Are you trying to draw something in 2CC or a real livery?

If it's a real livery, just don't use the 2CC colours and it'll stay that way.

[slim gazelle]

real livery

[uncut hazel]

yeah but this set doesn't do real liveries i'm afraid. that's the thing, it's a dynamic 2cc set

[slim gazelle]

ok ill continue this tomorrow its getting out of hand

[restive bobcat]

Maybe this'll help you, it's the same loco I repainted into KCR livery for the Hong Kong set

[slim gazelle]

ok thanks

[restive bobcat]

I assume you're trying to make your own trainset, you'll get more help in #add-on-development

[slim gazelle]

this is indonesian railway's EMD G26MC-2 or CC202 for the KAI's classification

[obsidian hornet]

you'll want to detail and shade that

[uncut hazel]

Also, as mentioned, you probably want to consider doing your own set because this one is a 2-cc set so normal liveries aren't really taken into this one

So while I don't explicitly mind the chat here but it's technically offtopic

[slim gazelle]

yeah ill save this for later while i learn the code

[uncut hazel]

Save yourself some time and if you do python try to automate and template things. I'm not saying my Excel-to-python-to-nml is perfect, espc because the py is all over the place (i'll revamp it eventually) but if you have templates for your vehicles, both design and code, it will make things a lot less complicated. E.g. in my version we store all the data in Excel and there are a handful of templates based on things like "normal" and "articulated" and "long" and so on (it's a bit more complex than that in reality) and code just generates the output. I see there's an ongoing chat about a similar topic in the addon chat, someone seems to have done a better job at self-writing code so people don't need to learn from zero.

[slim gazelle]

can you put it as separate model though?

[restive bobcat]

It's a 2cc trainset, so it's not going to have non-2cc engines

[uncut hazel]

Depends on what you mean by "separate model" and if you mean in particular this newgrf or a generic one that you might want to do.
this grf doesn't (code)support liveries at the moment because it's a right mess altogether that was ported over from a 20 year old other grf which was essentially reverse-engineered. But generally speaking it's possible that there'd be something like a "g26" and it'd have children (liveries) like "g26 indonesia" or "g26 whatever-country" etc. My code doesn't do that at the moment and it might or might not ever do it. A lot of it is up to the developer really. Eg. in this set we have a number of Siemens Vectrons, there's both a dual-mode vehicle and a normal one and iirc a third one too. Those could be considered a sort of liveries but i didn't code them that way. Maybe I should.

And as Jake says, I wouldn't be putting in a G26 Indonesia into this one because yes it's a 2cc set and on top of that I haven't coded templates for liveries.

[slim gazelle]

write it as G26MC-2

[restive bobcat]

It might be worth adding the Indonesian one as a narrow gauge engine, as opposed to the standard gauge Croatian one. But it would have to be painted in 2CC colours

[uncut hazel]

Even then I could just set the current G26 as both standard and narrow and enable relevant region(s)

which it already is

[restive bobcat]

Ah good, might need South America too

[uncut hazel]

Not meaning to discourage you but this set could do with some redone sprites, ie certain existing sprites could be improved on and there are many that are reusing existing ones. The list of quite long and is in the readme.me in the gfx folder for those. We can always take in new sprites for vehicles that don't exist in the set, preferably subject to discussion. But carrier-specific liveries, like the one you are working on, for a sprite that is otherwise already in the set and is of decent quality, isn't going to be taken in.

...like historically there had been all sort of liveries for separate models, even for this one but they've been done away with. the x2/x3 no longer exist, but the files haven't been deleted. they are no longer in the set exactly because liveries have been merged/dropped altogether

[uncut hazel]

Sure, i'll add that in

[restive bobcat]

Yeah just checked and it's used in Brazil

[slim gazelle]

nearly forget to inform you that the tep80 were supposed to have a top speed of 271kmh

[uncut hazel]

Yes, kindof. I think that came up at some point in the past. It technically holds the record for being that fast but in service it was 160 and I think (though i may have accidentially missed some) the vehicles are all in-service speeds in the set.