Ragins Train Sets

[mental musk]

wait an moment

http://www.railfaneurope.net/liveries/Lok2000/USA/l2amtrak.gif
http://www.railfaneurope.net/liveries/Lok2000/USA/Amtrak_Intercity_Colors.gif

[strange quiver]

🤔

[turbid bronze]

[signal gate]

is it colour variations?

[strange quiver]

nah, it randomly picks black or red

[signal gate]

badges 😛

[strange quiver]

maybe 🙂

but yh, code is a little dodgy atm, but it works

[strange quiver]

I'm gonna be more restrictive by comparison, so coal hoppers can only carry coal, ore hoppers only ore, etc

worst case, I can go back and change things, but I'll keep it more realistic with different cars only being able to carry only so much of each cargo

[strange quiver]

I really should look into integrating those at some point, but I also don't know how they work lmao

but yh, it's been synced now @turbid bronze

also capacities are gonna need tweaking too

I'm gonna try and do more realistic capacities too

also I nocited that the boxcars change capacity when refit from goods to anything else, which might need tweaking...

[haughty pollen]

But muh playstyle needs versatile refits! 😭

The more versatile the freight wagons, the more opportunities for carrying something both ways

which is why I like to make freight wagons carry as many different things as is reasonably realistic

[strange quiver]

I'll think about it then

but if I do change it so coal hoppers can carry ore, it'll only be a little bit

[strange quiver]

these are based on PRR H21 hoppers, and they coudl carry 70t of coal

but only 40t of iron ore

maybe that could be a good compromise 🤔

[signal gate]

it's a bit of a journey

which consists of....

reading this https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/CargoTypes#Cargo_Labels

and this https://grf.farm/firs/5.0.0-beta-5/html/code_reference.html#cargos

and then realising it's easier to just make hoppers carry open bulk

[crystal crag]

holds up her "randomized consist" wagons that can hold anything and change to look like different wagons accordingly

Admittedly inspired by I think it was you who posted about using Iron Horse container wagons for random cargo transport using cargodist?

[signal gate]

probs

[strange quiver]

fair enough

I'll have to do more research tomorrow, because I've drawn too much today 🙁

[crystal crag]

Is there such a th ing?

[strange quiver]

I've done 3 wagons + liveries in a day 🙁

[crystal crag]

m o a r

but nah I get it, there's a thing as doing too much of a thing even if you enjoy it

[strange quiver]

yeeee, also I'm just tired lmao

[steep echo]

Context?

[strange quiver]

Oh btw, does anyone have any recommendations for the best way to code these but with support for different cargoes?

I copied fairys coal hoppers and it works, but I don't know how expandable it would be

I saw NARS add one used a spritegroup feature? But I've never seen that used? Is that the way to go?

[haughty pollen]

As Andy said, easiest way is to just allow refitting the whole bulk cargoclass

[strange quiver]

I know, but I'm just not sure the best way to code the different cargo graphics

[haughty pollen]

If you want to be meticulous like me, you'll need a cargotable that includes the cargo labels for all industry sets

Then a switch that changes the colour/sprite of the load depending on the cargo label

[strange quiver]

Doesn't recolouring not work with company colour?

I saw JP+ did a recolour thing, but I wasn't sure how that worked

[haughty pollen]

I think Fairy posted a solution to that but I haven't tested it myself yet

[strange quiver]

Yee, I saw that, but I wasn't sure how to reverse engineer it

[crystal crag]

My code does recolouring with CC

[strange quiver]

Well I should steal that then :3333

[crystal crag]

Weh mobile discord doesn't let me search in thread I think?

If you can repost I can try and explain

[strange quiver]

I'm on mobile too 🙁

[crystal crag]

:(

Basically I have two images

[strange quiver]

I'll have to pester you about it when I'm home, because I'll need help doing it

[crystal crag]

One image is the actual wagon itself and it's variations, the other is the cargo loads

[strange quiver]

Yee, that's basically how my sprited are currently done

[crystal crag]

Essentially what the code does is say "Hey, paste these two images on top of eachother". One is then a switch chain for drawing the cargo, the other for drawing the wagons

Ah here

switch(FEAT_TRAINS, SELF, sw_5_PLANK_WAGON_loadcheck_COAL, PERCENT_FULL){
    20..60    : spriteset_5_PLANK_WAGON_COAL_H ;
    61..100    : spriteset_5_PLANK_WAGON_COAL_F ;
}

random_switch (FEAT_TRAINS, SELF, sw_5_PLANK_WAGON_randomtexture, TRIGGER_VEHICLE_ANY_LOAD) {
    //This is just code for picking a random texture for the wagon itself
}

switch (FEAT_TRAINS, SELF, sw_5_PLANK_WAGON_getwagon, STORE_TEMP(CB_FLAG_MORE_SPRITES | PALETTE_USE_DEFAULT, 0x100)) {
    return sw_5_PLANK_WAGON_randomtexture;
}

switch (FEAT_TRAINS, SELF, sw_5_PLANK_WAGON_recolour_load, STORE_TEMP(switch_generic_recolour(), 0x100)) {
    return sw_5_PLANK_WAGON_loadcheck_COAL;
}

switch (FEAT_TRAINS, SELF, sw_5_PLANK_WAGON_compose, getbits(extra_callback_info1, 8, 8)) {
    0: return sw_5_PLANK_WAGON_getwagon;
    return sw_5_PLANK_WAGON_recolour_load;
}```

So the _compose at the bottom sticks the two things together, item 0 is the wagon, the one below it is the load

_recolour_load is the recolouring

And _getwagon handles the wagon sprite

_loadcheck handles drawing different sprites for different amounts of cargo

[strange quiver]

Do you all hoppers use this code btw?

I don't recall see the recolour bit?

It'd help to see it in something known to work

[crystal crag]

Try the 5 Plank Wagon in my set when you can

[strange quiver]

Aight

I think the one I looked at was the bogie hopper

And there's other code elsewhere for recolouring right?

[crystal crag]

As in?

The bogie hopper should use it too but colors are far more noticable on the 5 Plank

[strange quiver]

Well theres something to say what to recolour it to right?

[crystal crag]

Ah yeah

That's in a different file yes

I won't be able to provide more code samples until later because I'm on my way to work :(

[strange quiver]

But it goes in the final nml right?

[strange quiver]

All good

I'm on my way home from work and aaa

[crystal crag]

Yeah

[strange quiver]

Easy

[haughty pollen]

I notice your sprite stack switch doesn't have the PALETTE_USE_DEFAULT, is that what makes the difference?
switch(FEAT_TRAINS, SELF, switch_toki_25000_all_loadstack, [ STORE_TEMP((getbits(extra_callback_info1, 8, 8) < 1 ? CB_FLAG_MORE_SPRITES : 0) | PALETTE_USE_DEFAULT, 0x100), getbits(extra_callback_info1, 8, 8) ]) { 0: switch_toki_25000_livery; 1: switch_toki_25000_cargo_type; }

Your code seems to split the loadstack switch into 3 separate ones?

[signal gate]

if anyone wants cargo labels in python....

https://github.com/andythenorth/polar-fox/blob/main/src/constants.py#L13

that's most of FIRS, and other labels I've been asked by other grf authors

[crystal crag]

Technically more than 3, the two options for the compose switch both lead down their own chains for determining sprites

[haughty pollen]

I know, I have similar switches

[crystal crag]

I unfortunately don't understand exactly how it works regarding USE_DEFAULT but just judging by the name I feel like that makes sense as being the reason

[haughty pollen]

I'm trying to figure out if the relevant part is in your way of doing the sprite stack, or somewhere else

[signal gate]

USE_DEFAULT is the regular 2cc, 1cc mapped palette

or you can specify any other recolour sprite

[haughty pollen]

I tried copying your code and the wagon still refuses to change colour from CC blue

[crystal crag]

Curious

I'll update my GitHub when I get home if I remember (someone nag me in 8 hours) to make it easier to dig through

https://github.com/FranticFairy/FairyUKSet/blob/main/src/CW/5_PLANK_WAGON.pnml

This code is outdated I think

[signal gate]

reading how Horse container wagons do it

[crystal crag]

Yeah that code is outdated, unfortunate I can't grab the latest rn

[haughty pollen]

So it doesn't have the generic recolour switch yet?

[crystal crag]

Yeah

The one on the GitHub that is

The snippet I posted comes from my latest version

But now I'm wondering if I gaslit myself into believing I have it working

Would appreciate someone digging up the latest version I posted in my thread to confirm

[haughty pollen]

I tested with what I could find, unfortunately the cargo recolour isn't working but the CC is

[crystal crag]

What industry set?

I know cargo works, so might be an industry thing

[haughty pollen]

This is FIRS but IORE is a vanilla cargo

[crystal crag]

That's... Strange

[haughty pollen]

so it shouldn't make a difference

[crystal crag]

I know for sure it works so there's some weirdness somewhere I'll have to peek at when I can

[haughty pollen]

It's the one I found here #985098159795609610 message

anyway we should go back to that thread because it's getting offtopic for here 🙂

[crystal crag]

Yeah good idea

[strange quiver]

nooo, it's relevant for me 🙁

although I really do need to get onto my uni work

[haughty pollen]

We won't hide the solution from you if we find one 😛

[strange quiver]

thanks 🙂

[haughty pollen]

Good news, I got it to work using Fairy's code 🙂

[strange quiver]

oh hell yeah

now I just need to steal all your hard work >:)

[turbid bronze]

Hurray for earth!

time for jake to raise a PR and get another name on this list:

[strange quiver]

join my cool kids club 🙂

[haughty pollen]

I'll code it into JP+ Engines too even though I wasn't planning on doing CC variants for freight wagons

[strange quiver]

easy, I can steal that then

just to double check, it's recolouring the cargo itself?

so I just need to provide a basic cargo, that it can recolour to cover iron ore, coal, etc?

[haughty pollen]

Yeah that's the gist of it. The JP+ open wagons are a bit more complex because they also handle piece goods and covered cargo

[strange quiver]

perfect then

i'll also have to look at how you did your open wagons

I have a vague idea on how I wanna do the cargoes, but I know it's gonna be a pain to code

[haughty pollen]

e.g. the same wagon carrying recolourable metal coils

[turbid bronze]

Sooo good

[haughty pollen]

That part of the code is a bit of a mess on my end too 😅

[strange quiver]

ooooh

[turbid bronze]

Love it when you get mixed cargos like that, plate and sheet/coil roll

its the one thing I wish horse wagons did more often. You get lots of variety with the wagons themselves and their paint schemes but the cargos all look identical

[strange quiver]

yee, hopefully I can match the variety in JP+

my mantra is gonna be variety, because imo openttd needs that

[signal gate]

the code does (or did) support randomising the sprites, but every extra cargo sprite option just murders compile times

[turbid bronze]

booooo

[signal gate]

compile is currently 22 seconds, and I'd rather it was 18 😛

[turbid bronze]

you and your sub 1 minute compiles

[haughty pollen]

JP+ Engines takes less than 7 seconds to compile, for reference

[turbid bronze]

Hah, I was more throwing shade at the fact that Andy can compile horse in under a minute when it takes significantly longer on my machine 😛

Fuck that grf BIG

[strange quiver]

thinking about these guys...

America didn't really use tank locomotives, but I'll try and include a bunch

but I'll probably have to make some up, but that shouldn't be too hard

[severe elbow]

Shay!

[haughty pollen]

Have you even drawn a single steamer yet? 😅

[mental musk]

Yank tank

[strange quiver]

No 🙁

I need to, its why I'm researching them atm

Also, I could add an extra sprite stack to add graffiti on the boxcars for extra variety

I might experiment with that...

I could probably have it controlled by year

But I reckon I could do it by the time since last service too...

[haughty pollen]

Oh nice, I've wanted to experiment with graffiti but it's not really a thing on Japanese trains 😆

[strange quiver]

Yee

Tbf it's not too much of a thing here either

But its defo a thing on American boxcars

[turbid bronze]

fuck off it isn't, every train I see go over a bridge overhead in brisbane is covered in grafiti lmao even the passenger services

[strange quiver]

That's because QR is shit 🙂

[turbid bronze]

Yeah probably

[strange quiver]

Theres some graffiti on trains here

But nowhere near as much in the US

Like almost every freight car in the US has some

Wouldn't be opposed to adding some to Australian cars tho

[haughty pollen]

I saw a ballast train the other day, almost every wagon had graffiti on it

[strange quiver]

Maybe I've just gaslit myself into thinking we have less graffiti

I'll look when I pass the freight yard at Clyde on my way home today

[strange quiver]

Idea

Weezer car

[late pewter]

❓

[strange quiver]

weezer car

idk why this came to my head

[crystal crag]

What's a Weezer Car?

[haughty pollen]

https://tenor.com/view/weezer-dance-weezer-gif-16364155232175153831

[strange quiver]

you give me another idea

[haughty pollen]

Why not do more famous album covers? It'd be a cool easter egg

[strange quiver]

tbh I could, but I only did the weezer one because it came to me while I was bored and writing a planning proposal

[strange quiver]

nvm, was gonna do a pride one, but there's no pink pixels 🙁

[haughty pollen]

32bpp time 🏳️‍🌈

Or just stick with the classic pride flag

Actually I did ok with just 8bpp colours

[strange quiver]

true

[strange quiver]

I'll see if I can do it then...

[strange quiver]

tbh pride boxcars go hard

idk if I'll include them, I was just curious how they'd look

[crystal crag]

include them

It's Trans. Tycoon Deluxe for a reason

[strange quiver]

fiiiiiine

I'll add them later

[crystal crag]

:D

[strange quiver]

but I'll want more variants so they're not super common lmao

[crystal crag]

Ye

[strange quiver]

tbh they actually mix in pretty well

[mental musk]

vnyemaniye agit-poyezd

Maybe make an option to hide tham? This may offend some people...

I must say that I really really like the yellow boxcars
Gives Cheesy or UP vibes

[strange quiver]

I feel like including an option to disable them would offend more people if anything

if people get offended at some random pride boxcars, that's their problem

[mental musk]

long vehicles had an patch that hid some drawings on the busses...

[strange quiver]

yh, but that's because the drawings were borderline nsfw

[haughty pollen]

That's not remotely the same thing

[mental musk]

I do not want to offend abybody, but people in some countries do not like to see some symbols
Values differ...

[strange quiver]

yh, but that's those peoples problem

with the amount of liveries I'd like to do, the chance a player would see them would be low, and they'd only be included as an easter egg

and if someone is offended by some trans/gay pride stuff included as an easter egg, they shouldn't play with a mod developed by a trans woman

[mental musk]

my friend, I understand.

I just generally think that in computer game mods it is best to play safe and just censor things that may offend some people.

You can keep these liveries as an easteregg if You want.

[strange quiver]

yh, but I'm not censoring something harmless just because it offends some people

[frosty sand]

Maybe people deserve to be offended rather than having the world conform to their narrow-minded views. 🙂

[turbid bronze]

THESE COLOURS DON'T FUCKEN RUN

[strange quiver]

In this house we salute the flag!

[dim pulsar]

🦄

wait this unicorn doesn't show rainbow on Linux Mint

[crystal crag]

If people get offended by pride symbols I want them to be offended so I know who slap with the block button

If people get offended by pride symbols existing then that means they're offended by me existing so I'd like to make sure they don't exist in my life in turn

If anything I feel like suggesting to hide them is more offensive, because it's basically saying "Hey, some people who think you're not allowed to exist will feel offended by you putting in these little reminders that you exist, so you should hide them so that they can enjoy your work without having to acknowledge who you are."

[crystal crag]

With that out of the way, we need more pride stuff in OpenTTD, mhmhm

[turbid bronze]

Look don't get me wrong I don't think it needs the crap spammed out of it, but I get really fucking squirelly real fucken quick when someone says it needs to be censored.

[crystal crag]

Mmm

I like trans representation when it's nice and tasteful

Like the flag objects, or the boxcars

Just something nice and cute

[strange quiver]

yee, agreed

I'm only gonna include pride stuff as an easter egg

[crystal crag]

Yeee

[strange quiver]

also @crystal crag I'm currently trying to get your recolouring code to work, and idk if I'm missing something?

seems the recolour doesn't work? I copied your recolour table and loosely copied your code so I think I'm missing something?

[crystal crag]

Is the cargo not getting recoloured, or not correctly?

[strange quiver]

not getting recoloured at all

[crystal crag]

Or is it the wagons?

Show me? I am running into issues where depending on the industry set it doesn't work (vanilla doesn't work)

[strange quiver]

there's the code snippet

[crystal crag]

Also post the sprites for the cargo load

[crystal crag]

Yes that's because it recolours specific pixels

[strange quiver]

it doesn't recolour anything, it just leaves it as black

[strange quiver]

I thought it did black?

[crystal crag]

You need to draw the cargo differently one moment

No, it does fire

[strange quiver]

ooooooooh

[signal gate]

not that the pride flag debate particularly needed any further comments....

but

people who are offended have the freedom to not use the grf

kthxbai

[strange quiver]

okay, I looked at sprites for the 5 plank and it was just black

[crystal crag]

https://github.com/FranticFairy/FairyUKSet/blob/main/gfx/CW/5_PLANK_WAGON_COAL.png

[strange quiver]

yh, that's my opinion

[turbid bronze]

people who are offended get to file their complaints with me in person

[strange quiver]

easy, I'll steal that and get back to you

[haughty pollen]

That was stolen from JP+ Engines, which I stole from the Dutch Trainset and improved

it's stealing all the way down 😛

[crystal crag]

OpenTTD is built on a cycle of theft

[turbid bronze]

😄

[strange quiver]

we love theft 🙂

wow, can't believe I got this working, with no help from anyone else

I'm so cool and smart 🙂

(works great, thankyou @crystal crag )

[crystal crag]

:D

And does wagon CC work?

[signal gate]

now write a code generator 🙂

[strange quiver]

idk, these wagons aren't CC

[strange quiver]

no 🙂

I work with giant nml files or nothing

[crystal crag]

I've got a code generator, I wouldn't be making my set if I didn't

[strange quiver]

I'll nick it at some point, but tonight is not that night

[crystal crag]

Theft all the way down

[strange quiver]

yeah 🙂

also while I was testing, I forgot that most sets don't have sound, and it threw me off

I forgot how quiet openttd is normally

[crystal crag]

Yup

Once you get used to sound it's really hard to go back

Gonna bother Andy and Jake to put sounds in Horse and JP+

[strange quiver]

we're gonna have to

although we'll probably need a better sound library

I think that's the main thing that limits sets using it

[crystal crag]

Time to go bother the Trainz and Train Simulator communities for where they get their sounds

[signal gate]

not doing sounds

partly because I play the game with most audio turned off

[crystal crag]

:(

[strange quiver]

that's literally what I'm doing 🙂

[strange quiver]

that's valid

[crystal crag]

Oh cool let me know how that goes and if I can help bother them

[crystal crag]

What if one submits a PR for sounds with a parameter that defaults to off

[strange quiver]

I'll let you know

a friend does a roblox thing with lots of trains, and if I can steal and share their audio, then that would be really useful

[crystal crag]

It's theft all the way down

[strange quiver]

yeah 🙂

also you might know this, but I'd want to include a switch that controls cargo capacity

NARS addon had this

switch (FEAT_TRAINS, SELF, WAGON_CARGO_BETHGON_HOPPER_switch_cargo_capacity, cargo_classes & bitmask(CC_PIECE_GOODS, CC_PASSENGERS, CC_MAIL, CC_ARMOURED)) {
bitmask(CC_PASSENGERS): return 60;
bitmask(CC_MAIL): return 60;
bitmask(CC_ARMOURED): return 60;
bitmask(CC_PIECE_GOODS): return 60;
return 60;
}

is there a way to do it so I can just set a specific cargo? not a cargo type?

I'd want it so if it's refit to coal/coke, it can carry more, and anything else it carries less

[signal gate]

yes

[crystal crag]

I've not dabbled in that myself, I can't try until home

[signal gate]

cargo_type_in_veh

[turbid bronze]

I mean ore is ore, it technically all weighs different amounts for the same physical volume but yeah

[signal gate]

I could explain why you shouldn't go this route

[turbid bronze]

Don’t think we’re going that deep in ottd

[signal gate]

but then I'm denying you learning 🙂

[signal gate]

cargo has a volume property

[strange quiver]

I know, but I want it to be a balancing thing

IRL coal hoppers would not be used for ore traffic

[turbid bronze]

But could be fine for liquids in a box car, capacity loss for barelling

[strange quiver]

so this is me adding that flexability, you get to carry ore, but you lose capacity (just like IRL)

[strange quiver]

🙁

[signal gate]

meanwhile https://esngblog.com/2021/02/20/rule-1-and-then-some/ Rule 1, and also Rule 3

[turbid bronze]

So funny thing, Big Hole People only use different rolling stock for iron vs coal over arguments about which is better. Iron people think theirs is better but the coal people insist they can unload theirs just as quick

[signal gate]

coal hoppers can be used for ore, just a different load level

it's not efficient, but happens

[strange quiver]

I like rule 1 though

It is my GRF, you will play with my rules >:C

[turbid bronze]

Yeah I watched a presso on it but the dude was blasting through the rail section super quick because he spent way too much time professing his love for drag lines

[crystal crag]

You'll play by Ragin's rules, or you'll get coal for Christmas

[strange quiver]

yee, that's what I'm gonna try and simulate (at least the load level part)

[crystal crag]

(the coal will be delivered more efficiently than the iron, thanks to these wagons)

[turbid bronze]

And I was far more interested in the rail part than the intricacies of running an open cut mine but anyway

but yes the iron people and the coal people like to argue. Everyone is jealous of the copper people though, they’re getting all the love lately. We’re getting none because we make fuck all money at the moment.

[strange quiver]

this sounds like something someone in the early iron age would say

[turbid bronze]

Dig hole, put thing on train, take thing out of train put on boat, but ONLY if the check clears. No check clear no put on boat.

Complex business.

[strange quiver]

cave business very important

[turbid bronze]

Yup

[crystal crag]

And in the case of the work I do, gotta make sure you have the correct documents

"How much % of this cable is copper"

[haughty pollen]

So instead of referencing cargo classes, you want to reference cargo labels directly. But for this you need a cargotable first, containing every cargo label you plan to use

[turbid bronze]

God damn Ea Nasir cucked us again

[strange quiver]

oh, I got it working already 🙂

it was pretty simple

[crystal crag]

I love Ea Nasir jokes

[haughty pollen]

I saw the original Ea-Nasir tablet at the British Museum lol

[turbid bronze]

Ofcourse the British museum nicked it

[strange quiver]

they nick everything

[strange quiver]

also, doing testing, kinda decided I didn't like this, so I'm gonna drop it

[modest violet]

i went there a couple of weeks ago, but apparently its removed for study now haha

[strange quiver]

I am running into an issue where I've added "CC_potable" into the non-reffitable cargo classes, but it doesn't appear to stop it being refit to grain?

[crystal crag]

What industry set are you running?

[strange quiver]

AXIS, but I tested it with FIRS 3, 4 and 5 too

[crystal crag]

Seems to me like

Grain is just the same labels as coal

Just "Bulk"

Try dump_info cargotypes in console

[strange quiver]

I'm presuming this means something to you

oh I see, yh, it's just marked with bulk

[crystal crag]

yeah, it just has "Bulk"

[strange quiver]

bugger

I suppose I could add it to the specific "no refit list"

it's my GRF, and I say no grain in open hoppers!

[crystal crag]

What about Maize

[strange quiver]

isn't that just grain?

[crystal crag]

It's a different tag

[haughty pollen]

Don't end up like me 😅

[strange quiver]

I might 🙁

[strange quiver]

well it seems to be tagged the same 🙁

[haughty pollen]

Maize is climate-specific in vanilla

[crystal crag]

You've got GRAI MAIZ BEAN CASS SGBT CTCD TOFF that probably don't belong in open hoppers

[strange quiver]

I'll add those then

[strange quiver]

ah fair enough then

[crystal crag]

The final four being Cassava, Sugar Beet, Cotton Candy and Toffee

[strange quiver]

Toffee can probably go in a coal hopper

I love the taste of coal in my toffee 🫠

also, what would be the best way of removing that weird feature where refitting a boxcar to goods increases its capacity?

I'd want it so goods/mail/etc all have the same capacity

actually, it seems to apply to goods/mail, so I might keep it

idk, I'll test it

[crystal crag]

I think that's related to like, the stats of the cargo specifically

Like how ECS Tourists take up more space than Passengers

So it's be a matter of handling every cargo specifically through trial and error

[strange quiver]

yeah...

okay so currently then, the default cargo refit is set to goods, and when I set the cargo capacity to 80

it goes 80 for goods, and 40 for everything else

is there a way I can change it so it's still refit to good by default, but the for goods it's 160 and everything else it's 80?

[crystal crag]

What happens if

[strange quiver]

I just wanna do it that way as a fallback so my wagons aren't set to carry 200 units of a cargo

[crystal crag]

Let me think actually

[strange quiver]

all good 🙂

[crystal crag]

So you want it to say Goods 160 by default or Goods 80 but its actually 160?

Like, what's the issue with just setting the default cargo cap to 160 and then making the default cargo goods

[strange quiver]

so this should be the default cargo capacity for everything

but when this is set to goods, goods has that value, and everything has half

[crystal crag]

What if you mess around with this

[strange quiver]

aaa I just deleted it

but you're right 🙁

although I'd also be returning a constant, and nml doesn't like that

added a cargo capacity callback and that works

[strange quiver]

doing some more testing, and the recolour code works great

gonna change how I was planning on doing hoppers, and I'll simplify the open hoppers

so it'll be more like horse

[frosty sand]

This is defined by the cargo, it's not anything the train can affect (as far as I know)

I think the idea is to allow different cargos to have different densities, e.g. carrying 100 tons of feathers vs 100 tons of lead. 😄

[strange quiver]

if you use a call back to set capacity you can overwrite it 🙂

[strange quiver]

yeah... but it's a bit odd

[haughty pollen]

There is also a separate cargo property that defines weight per unit

[signal gate]

grain is potable

potable is a synonym for food-grade

https://grf.farm/polar_fox/1.0.0/industry_frax.html#CARGO_GRAIN

"potable" wasn't my choice of word, but eh

oh non refittable

misread 😛

support will depend on industry grf use of potable

[strange quiver]

Yee, AXIS doesn't seem to give it that tag

So the fallback of saying no refit works too

[strange quiver]

also at some point I need to get around to doing the US signals set

I think what I'll do, is release everything I've got together, so that way people get a lot of cool content at once

[strange quiver]

🤔

[vestal minnow]

What’s inside here?

[turbid bronze]

ICBM probably 💀

[strange quiver]

yee, an ICBM 🙂

[earnest meadow]

new openttd update: you can launch missiles from railcars and nuke your rivals' tracks!

[strange quiver]

devs pls add

[cold scarab]

bad feature

[signal gate]

2023

[strange quiver]

great feature, should be in the base game 🙂

[mental musk]

I just found something

http://rusrailmodel.ru/img/scheme/PB21/05.jpg

Never build project of an soviet electric loco PB21 with streamlined cab

the PB21 was build in only one example and indeed was based on P5a

so...

[strange quiver]

oooh, neat

[mental musk]

https://railtrain.pro/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/pb21-01.webp

PB21

[strange quiver]

a critter

[mental musk]

like P5a but for 1520mm and 3000V DC

becouse AC was too high tech for russians at that time

(Why I find the topic of bootlegs and clones soooo interesting....)

[signal gate]

AC/DC split?

"will never work, let's discuss why" 😄

[strange quiver]

tbf, it won't work for my sets, but for different reasons

Australia has a handful of DC locomotives, and then only AC ones

and it's the same for the US

so I'd have no references

[signal gate]

also it can't be done in a multi-grf environment

well it can, for the part of the playerbase that is like "every detail must be present but also yolo swag I don't care if 50% of it is shit and has not taste, as long as the detail is present" 🙂

but for anyone who expects to load multiple train grfs or arbitrary railtype grfs it can't 🙂

ok end of soapbox 🧼

[strange quiver]

pretty much

also it doesn't add that much gameplay wise

that's the main reason I've not done it tbh

[turbid bronze]

@signal gate as far as I'm concerned the only people doing AC/DC right are the JP+ mafia, but, they all ooordinate with each other, and they're unafraid to tell idiots to kick rocks if they wanna load fifty million .grf's in a trash heap combination.

For the majority of people and sets I don't think there's much point

[signal gate]

total control of the namespace 😛

[turbid bronze]

I mean they've got what, narrow gauge, standard gauge, scotch gauge, AC and DC, and hi speed rail.

and like half a dozen cooks are in that kitchen too

[signal gate]

I believe xUSSR has all possible factual details included

[strange quiver]

annoyingly, I've done something that breaks the EOTD code for hoppers only?

[mental musk]

maybe it's something with the loading sprites

boxcars do not change sprites while being loaded

[strange quiver]

it's something to do with the sprite stack

it's the same sprite stack as everything else, just it has another one for the load?

seems it's an issue with the sprite stack, because if I go directly to it, it doesn't add the EOTD

I also changed the number of sprites to 3 and that didn't work either

also if anyone wants to take a look, it's the gen2 hopper, and it's on github

I'll have a better look tomorrow because I've done a fair bit today

[crystal crag]

Is it on the github @strange quiver ?

[strange quiver]

yee

[crystal crag]

link?

[strange quiver]

https://github.com/Ragin1924/Ragins-Train-Sets

[crystal crag]

can you do a quick test for me and try

[strange quiver]

sure

[crystal crag]

switch (FEAT_TRAINS, SELF, switch_Gen2_Hopper_Liv0_RearStack2, [
    STORE_TEMP((getbits(extra_callback_info1, 8, 8) < 3 ? CB_FLAG_MORE_SPRITES : 0) | PALETTE_USE_DEFAULT, 0x100),
    getbits(extra_callback_info1, 8, 8)
    ]) {
    0: switch_Gen2_Hopper_Liv0_Random;
    1: switch_Gen2_Hopper_recolour_load;
    2: spriteset_5_Old_EOTD_r;
}```

[strange quiver]

oh, I already tried that

it didn't do anything

[crystal crag]

nods

What if

switch (FEAT_TRAINS, SELF, switch_Gen2_Hopper_Liv0_RearStack2EOTD, [
    STORE_TEMP((getbits(extra_callback_info1, 8, 8) < 2 ? CB_FLAG_MORE_SPRITES : 0) | PALETTE_USE_DEFAULT, 0x100),
    getbits(extra_callback_info1, 8, 8)
    ]) {
    0: switch_Gen2_Hopper_Liv0_Random;
    1: spriteset_5_Old_EOTD_r;
}

switch (FEAT_TRAINS, SELF, switch_Gen2_Hopper_Liv0_RearStack2, [
    STORE_TEMP((getbits(extra_callback_info1, 8, 8) < 2 ? CB_FLAG_MORE_SPRITES : 0) | PALETTE_USE_DEFAULT, 0x100),
    getbits(extra_callback_info1, 8, 8)
    ]) {
    0: switch_Gen2_Hopper_Liv0_RearStackEOTD;
    1: switch_Gen2_Hopper_recolour_load;
}

[strange quiver]

let's see

nope 🙁

[crystal crag]

oh wait

no i did do the _r properly

try i t for the other one, too, so

switch (FEAT_TRAINS, SELF, switch_Gen2_Hopper_Liv0_RearStack1EOTD, [
    STORE_TEMP((getbits(extra_callback_info1, 8, 8) < 2 ? CB_FLAG_MORE_SPRITES : 0) | PALETTE_USE_DEFAULT, 0x100),
    getbits(extra_callback_info1, 8, 8)
    ]) {
    0: switch_Gen2_Hopper_Liv0_Random;
    1: spriteset_5_Old_EOTD;
}

switch (FEAT_TRAINS, SELF, switch_Gen2_Hopper_Liv0_RearStack1, [
    STORE_TEMP((getbits(extra_callback_info1, 8, 8) < 2 ? CB_FLAG_MORE_SPRITES : 0) | PALETTE_USE_DEFAULT, 0x100),
    getbits(extra_callback_info1, 8, 8)
    ]) {
    0: switch_Gen2_Hopper_Liv0_RearStack1EOTD;
    1: switch_Gen2_Hopper_recolour_load;
}

[strange quiver]

also nope

[crystal crag]

Odd

I think it's something to do with

In addition you need to set register 100 as additional result:

    STORE_TEMP(CB_FLAG_MORE_SPRITES | recolouring, 0x100) if there are more sprites to draw.
    STORE_TEMP(recolouring, 0x100) if there are no more sprites to draw.```

[strange quiver]

so what does that mean?

oh no, I see

[crystal crag]

Must be something stupid going wrong somewhere...

The twitch is the same as in BREX

[strange quiver]

yeah, maybe it's to do with the recolour?

but I have no idea

[crystal crag]

Try swapping the place of the EOTD and the Load

so it does base, EOTD and then Load

[strange quiver]

just did that, and it works lmao

idk why it works though?

[turbid bronze]

Don’t look too hard or it might stop working again. NEXT!

[strange quiver]

yeah, that seems like the way to move forward

[mental musk]

https://habrastorage.org/getpro/habr/upload_files/7b9/089/0ab/7b90890abbb22f95388c40f783af8745.png

I have got no idea form where and whan is this concept art but it does look kool

[signal gate]

that is boss

[dim pulsar]

This is very large loading gauge

[turbid bronze]

Yesssss

[finite mountain]

Idk why, but I just had a weird idea for some North American rolling stock earlier

Here me out

An F40PH cab on the end of an amtrak horizon coach

Almost similar to the Siemens Venture cab car

[strange quiver]

I suppose

I like that idea, it can go on my list

[vestal minnow]

Cabbage cars?

[finite mountain]

Exactly

[vestal minnow]

Some older amtrak cabs have been repurposed into control cars, the back hollowed out for baggage space

[finite mountain]

Yeah only difference is I was thinking like what if you took a cabbage car and combined it with a horizon coach

Like how a venture cab car is the siemens charger cab combined with a regular venture coach

[strange quiver]

Yee, I wanna do them at some point

[strange quiver]

did the ARA hoppers, but I might need to find a way to differentiate them

there really wasn't much change from the earlier hoppers, so I'm not too fussed with them being similar in terms of livery, but ehhh

idk, we'll see how I feel, right now I'm just testing, and it doesn't take too much effort to change things

although at the same time, I suppose post WW2 hoppers do get a bit different

[mental musk]

what was the main difference from previous types?

[strange quiver]

also I'm thinking I might actually make hoppers company colour, since they were typically in captured service, so they only ran on the railroad that owned them

[strange quiver]

slightly different look and capacity

[mental musk]

whan were 4 bay hoppers introduced?

[strange quiver]

Post ww2

although tbf, I'm only guessing, people here probably know more than I do about american freight stock

[mellow loom]

You don't get to tell other people what they "can" include as an easter egg

I include every pride livery I can find in my newGRFs. If anyone ever tells me to hide them the only thing that will happen is I'll set them as the default liveries

[haughty pollen]

In case you wanted more oddball US diesels 🙂 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMC_1800_hp_B-B

[strange quiver]

I do need to do that goober...

[mental musk]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1d/EMD_511.jpg

love the design of this

[untold viper]

Then they can go fuck themselves

[severe elbow]

Just shapes and colours at the end of the day

[untold viper]

If someone's values include denying that I exist and that I love my girlfriend then they should not be listened to

[red stump]

No need to bring it up again, staff and the community has made it pretty clear that anyone who would "be offended" by shit that has no effect on their life like someone else's sexuality or gender is not to be taken seriously or forcibly removed from our community (which has already happened in this case).

Anyone who would "be offended" by the trans flag or whatever is already on thin ice for multiple reasons and the above really isn't helping.

Back to discussion on Ragin's Train Sets now please. 🙂

[mental musk]

I do not want to de-rail this topic onto politics...

[red stump]

Utterly disingenuous comment considering you're the one who brought this up in the first place.

No one is under any illusion that you're just being considerate about the general public at large by suggesting people might get offended by the trans flag as you have already been temporarily banned for homophobia.

[late pewter]

Anyways

Is there an option for 2cc wagons? They would be nice for my rffsa larping

[steep echo]

@strange quiver ma’am, ma’am, more gay trains please!

[crystal crag]

We need an iron horse-like trainset but all the trains are named after prominent figures (historical and present) in the LGBTQ+ community

But also we need more Ragin Stuff

[mellow loom]

Petition to rename this set as "The Ragin Gays" and also form an electro-swing-pop band of the same name where we tour around dressed as bisexual trains

[mellow loom]

That adds a very unpleasant twist to it, going from misguided to malicious

@mental musk maybe you just shouldn't talk about sexuality in this server at all tbh. The community is very inclusive and not interested in homophobia dressed up as faux "some people may be offended" concern

If "some people" are offended by a rainbow, they can leave

[red stump]

Agreed but let's drop it I think this has gone on long enough now

[mellow loom]

Wasn't planning to comment again but the "Bring something up... then say you don't want to talk politics" baited me in 😂

[signal gate]

"days since railtypes last mentioned"?

[steep echo]

https://tenor.com/view/the-simpsons-homer-simpson-uranium-accident-fall-down-gif-17608510

[signal gate]

precisely

[mental musk]

https://tenor.com/view/madagscar-penguins-kaboom-gif-9833865

[dim pulsar]

https://back-on-track.eu/night-train-conference-2025/

(trying to completely switch topic) I think people will be particularly interested in this Night Train Conference here. You can still register online to the conference taking place on this weekend, in UTC+1.

[late pewter]

Nice

Is there a meet and greet there?

[dim pulsar]

Both in real life (which is too late to register) and online

[strange quiver]

wtf happened in here last night?

[strange quiver]

yee, it's something I wanna do, but right now I'm just testing to see how things work

[steep echo]

nothing important

please continue making gay and woke trains

when someone asks a boomer "is the woke in the room with us right now?" i need your grf to appear

[strange quiver]

sure, works for me 🙂

[signal gate]

Am I a boomer?

[strange quiver]

I suppose it depends how old you are

[signal gate]

I am gen X

but I think that's boomer now

according to the internet, and my children

[strange quiver]

I guess you'd need the boomer mindset

[signal gate]

basically, as it was explained to me, anyone over the age of 15 is a boomer

[strange quiver]

as long as you're not one of the people that spend their free time writing to the council, you should be good (I have to deal with those people at work)

[signal gate]

if you believe that in any way you will ever own your own house, you're a boomer

I think that's the main dividing point

[strange quiver]

tbh probably, but that age depends on the country I guess

I love living in the 2nd most expensive housing market in the world 🫠

[red stump]

technically boomer would be someone born during the post WWII baby boom

but figuratively it would be more of a specific vibe or mindset

[signal gate]

I saw a phenomenal monochrome gif: boomer = model train fan

could never find it again though

[mental musk]

https://railgallery.ru/photo/02/93/52/293524.jpg

Neat railmotor

[vestal minnow]

Reminds me of the old streetcars that ran in most cities in the early 1900s

[full river]

When streetcar & thomas had a baby:

[mental musk]

streetcar named desire

[strange quiver]

oh btw, I've been quiet, but I've been working on/testing passenger cars in the background

I've used the sprite stack system I've been using for my freight wagons, so it makes doing additional carriages a lot easier

[civic ether]

not to be that guy but typo in a car name :P

the gallery car specifically

[strange quiver]

fuck

woops

[civic ether]

they look fantastic though

[strange quiver]

thanks 🙂

[signal gate]

Moose now obviated 🙂

suits me

[strange quiver]

fixed, and I changed the name of the P70 to genericise it a bit (since a lot of other coaches in that era also looked like it)

[strange quiver]

tbf, there's still a market for a more gameplay focused pack 🙂

[signal gate]

well

I currently have more projects than time 🙂

and I'm ok with that

[strange quiver]

that's fair enough

[signal gate]

but Moose could masively steal sprites

if I ever start it

[strange quiver]

I'm kinda in the same boat, I'm just doing easy stuff since Uni is ramping up a lot this month

[strange quiver]

you're more than welcome to, I've shameslessly stolen your style after all 🙂

[strange quiver]

been tweaking things again, I changed the order that mail cars appear in the roster

previously, mail cars would be mixed in, but I changed it so in the engineid table they come after, since this matches sets like horse and NARS, but also because it helps separate the cars a bit more

with the very early 1830-1870 cars, there doesn't really need to be that many mail vehicles, and this way makes it look nicer, without having every single one have a mail wagon

[frosty sand]

Nice. I might also suggest using the word "car" instead of "coach," as "coach" is a class/type of car (as opposed to a diner, parlor, etc.) It's the wrong word for a car that carries mail, anyway. 🙂

[strange quiver]

true...

it's also a more commonwealth term

[signal gate]

en-gb vs en-us strikes again 🙂

would I localise "Brake Van" 😛

[strange quiver]

tbf, I'll use those terms for my australian stuff

with my sets, I'm gonna use whatever the local term is

so Car/Caboose for the NA set, Coach/Brake/Guard van in Australia

[strange quiver]

heavyweights :3

still gotta test balancing, but there's a decent pasenger car roster so far (also liveries are WIP sitll)

also there's not really a point for me to do any passenger cars pre 1900 atm, but meh

I still need to do steam locomotives, but I have another project I wanna test them with first

[haughty pollen]

Did you ever see those sprites for NARS passenger cars to match the 4 different engine liveries, that were never coded?

[strange quiver]

oh? no I have not

[haughty pollen]

Lemme see if I can dig it up, could be good inspiration for liveries

[strange quiver]

please do

i'll have to look tomorrow though, I've gotta sleep now

[haughty pollen]

Found them

I actually coded these in a private GRF once

[strange quiver]

oooh, I'm gonna have to use those as inspiration...

[mental musk]

I don't suppose coaches were standardised back than in the US...

[mellow loom]

I don't think coaches were standardised anywhere in the world pre-1900

London Underground would've been one of the first places to start to do it with the UERL who started to standardise some of their underground stock across their lines, but even that was a small niche of the UK

I doubt there was any real standardisation until WW2. Eg in the UK it started in the 1920s with the Big 4 but only really took off during the war with war-built locomotives. Germany broadly the same etc

[steep echo]

what fits the idea of standardisation?

[mellow loom]

It's a bit subjective, but I'd say it's when you have a deliberate and concerted effort to use one type of stock across a significant portion of your network, for the speciific purpose of reducing complexity

[strange quiver]

redoing the Amfleets atm, and idk if I'll keep the mail cab car

tbh idek why I included it

I'll probably still do the sprite for it, but gameplay/realism wise it serves not purpose, so I just won't code it

[strange quiver]

apparently the metroliners got phase 7?

[signal gate]

I find with Horse that some units I want a mail version often

and others are like "nope, never"

[strange quiver]

Yeah, it's while I'll reserve it

I'm assuming I did it for some reason, just can't remember why

[severe elbow]

You were probably in a horse mood

[strange quiver]

Probably tbh

[finite mountain]

Yeah. Amtrak's been applying phase 7 to the amfleets, viewliners, and superliners recently

[strange quiver]

it goes hard

god I love the goofy amcans

[steep echo]

Iron Moose is looking good

[strange quiver]

moose will be real

[steep echo]

I should do some work on Iron Ibex tomorrow

Funny how we’re both stream loco adverse

Are those American streamlined locos within your framework when you start doing steam?

[strange quiver]

yee, the steam set will try and be as extensive as everything else

we love the goofy Amcans

also Amtrak F40Cs kinda go hard

[steep echo]

Niceee

I’m not a big fan of American stuff but i like their streamlined steamers

And those zephyr things

[strange quiver]

yee

I need to get around to doing them at some point, but I'll probably lose interest in NA stuff before then lmao

[steep echo]

Xd

I don’t mind doing a mutual request thingy btw if there’s anything you want from northern, central, southern Europe, Benelux or France

[strange quiver]

I'll keep that in mind, but I generally prefer to draw things myself

to me, drawing is the fun part

I barely even play openttd nowadays, I just draw 💀

[steep echo]

No worries, I’m similar but also visual unity is a goal of mine, i really dislike how many badly or weirdly drawn European sets there are xd

I wanna make trains with Danish, Dutch, French, German, Czech, Serbian carriages and for it to look good

[strange quiver]

yee, that's true

I wanna make sure all my sets are visually consistent, and me drawing everything helps with that

[wind valley]

when this releases i will become that "friendship ended with NARS; Now CNALP is my best friend" meme

[turbid bronze]

It's already pretty playable alongside Horse. Just needs some more early stuff 1900-1930

Those dreaded steam engines Ragin's putting off drawing 😛

and some proper cabooses

[strange quiver]

I'll get to them!

[turbid bronze]

lmao

[strange quiver]

I wanna do a lot more research on steam locomotives first

cabooses I can get on to soon

[strange quiver]

re-done the Budd Gallery Cars, finally can do a before/after

gonna avoid doing the liveries for now so I can focus on other things

[frosty sand]

Night and day. Great work!

[strange quiver]

thanks!

I'm working on something else atm that you might like too

[turbid bronze]

So much nicer!

[strange quiver]

the goobers

I need some locomotives in the GO Transit livery lmao

[frosty sand]

Octagons!

I think it’s funny you show everything with an F40C, one of the least common commuter locos haha

[strange quiver]

idek why I do that

I just think they're neat I suppose

[frosty sand]

One of the nice things about a fantasy train set 🙂

For some reason the pinned loco list only shows steam engines — might just be hard to read on my phone. But I assume you’ll do the SD70MACH someday, and I am looking forward to seeing those with the gallery cars 😄

[strange quiver]

yee, it's on the todo list

google docs is weird on phone, but the entire list is there, just in different document tabs

[strange quiver]

been working on the formula for my thesis all day and now I think I'm nearly done with the math part

if only transport planning was just like in openttd 🙁

anyway, gonna work on more coaches now as a treat

[severe elbow]

can actually see the windows now lol

[strange quiver]

yeah 🙂

[severe elbow]

reminds me i wanna continue redoing my sprites, back to paint.net

[strange quiver]

Budd-Comeng Double Decker re-done

I love these goobers so much

Also these are accurate with the F40C, since these were designed for the Chicago region

[turbid bronze]

So good

[mental musk]

I love tham

I suppose that IRL thay ended up on the drawing boards and not an single was ever build?

[strange quiver]

yee, Budd asked Comeng to design a car for the Chicagoland region based on their experience designing ones for Sydney

they drew up a design, but Budd didn't do anything with it

[mental musk]

Looks a lot like goerlitz double deckers

https://store.trainzportal.com/cdn/shop/products/iDLoBXxPp01f_grande.jpg?v=1652261257

[strange quiver]

yee, but more square

and tall enough that the bi-level section is the majority of the car

[mental musk]

https://railgallery.ru/photo/02/93/51/293519.jpg

wonky proportions...

[strange quiver]

goofy goober

[mental musk]

https://railgallery.ru/photo/02/93/84/293841.jpg

[strange quiver]

goober

also, in another note, it's kinda wild how much the V-set influence is visible in the LIRR C1 cars

they had the same end structure that the V sets had, with the vertical ribbing

the production C3 cars didn't have it

[strange quiver]

also it's interesting that the early C1 renderings both show the V-set lineage, but also with the golden windows that Comeng liked

the cars as built didn't have them, presumably because they didn't need that much thermal resistance, but it's interesting nonetheless

also golden windows is something I need to include on my V sets and XPTs

Kinda wild it's accurate to run an FL9 with a V-set derived car

but yh, C1s done

[mental musk]

wait an moment

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GWWn6FpXgAAqxR1.jpg

WHAT operator is this?

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSPB44Oyd9VwtXV2vw7EBbIbwdAUKfnCSXh8w&s

this is an canadian one

also

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-UMy-LypdMsw/TegHNML1XpI/AAAAAAAAAEE/KFzxTgbZLWM/2011-05-27_07-38-24_754.jpg

noice

[strange quiver]

pretty sure the top one is a photoshop, bottom two are from their time in preservation

[mental musk]

this resambles that one amtrak train in 2010s which was operated by non-amtrak equiptment

that wa 50 years old

and had such an paint scheme

[mental musk]

preserved rolling stock in paint job that it never wore in service...

https://ilostan.forumkolejowe.pl/foto/26104.jpg

also ,this may interest You

http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/C1-C3 Bilevel/Bilevel Cars.htm

also, I wonder why the successor of C1 is called C3, not C2

[strange quiver]

pretty much

[strange quiver]

yee, i've got no idea

[mental musk]

btw

This preserved EN94 got repaintd...

Into another livery it never wore in service lol

[strange quiver]

if I ever do a european set, I'm including turkey because these Turkish electrics are so cool looking

I love my tri-bo boxs

[strange quiver]

C3s done

[haughty pollen]

That’s basically a Japanese loco

[strange quiver]

Well its based on the EF63

[mental musk]

huh, I made an 3d model of this loco

Out of European countries only Spain and Turkey used locos of japanese origin

[strange quiver]

went into the city today and saw the girls btw

trains are so cool, I wish they were real

also I got recognised from youtube like 4 times aa

[crystal crag]

Famous...

[strange quiver]

I'm so awkward 🙁

[crystal crag]

I'd be so awkward too tbh

[strange quiver]

yeah, aaaaaa

[strange quiver]

Also Comet base sprite done

gonna work through the other comet coaches over the next few days

[gritty bone]

no 50ft boxcars?

[severe elbow]

be grateful you're getting a 30ft

[mental musk]

are horisons and shoreliners diffrent enough to also include tham?

[severe elbow]

horizon*

[mental musk]

indeed

If I am correct horizons were more for long-distance traffic and had fever seats

maybe difference tham ingame by the top speed too?

[strange quiver]

I just haven't drawn them yet

[strange quiver]

Shoreliners are lumped in with the comets, horizons are different

[strange quiver]

kinda wanna draw something, but unsure what

any requests? (for the NA set only)

[turbid bronze]

10/8 centenial, clipping and turning wonkiness be damned.

ducks

[strange quiver]

okay maybe not that one >:/

something somewhat straight forward that I can do before bed lmao

[turbid bronze]

BIG

:3

[strange quiver]

I haven't done the template for it yet! and I'm lazy

[turbid bronze]

lmao

I know, I'm being a prat

[strange quiver]

tsk tsk tsk

[steep echo]

Chicago zephyr

[turbid bronze]

oooooh

shiny and chrooooome

[strange quiver]

tempting, I'll have to think about how I'll do that one

[turbid bronze]

well, stainless

[strange quiver]

shouldn't be too hard tbh

[strange quiver]

:/

[steep echo]

Bonus is that it’s not already in NARS

[turbid bronze]

It's in USSet

[steep echo]

It’s in the US train set though

Yeah

[turbid bronze]

yeah

[steep echo]

I’d also nominate the aerotrain and turbotrain

And that Dutch TEE train that Canada got

This thing

They changed the nose for use in Canada so that it complied with some such rule

[frosty sand]

SD70MACH, to go with the redrawn gallery cars?

The bonus of that is, you get 50% of modern freight locomotives out of that same sprite, just change the livery 😛

[turbid bronze]

and you can stretch it into a Centennial!

roughly

[strange quiver]

I'll have to look then

[strange quiver]

true...

tbh, tonight I'm not in the drawing mood I don't think

but I might just work out what I wanna do before release

what do people think the essential locomotives/carriages are for a release?

[haughty pollen]

More obscure diesels from the 40s 😅

[strange quiver]

don't tempt me 🙂

but I wanna focus on the essential ones

[haughty pollen]

Have you got all the super common diesels like GP9, SD40 etc?

[strange quiver]

yee, they're on the list

[mental musk]

BL2

[strange quiver]

just marking them on my todo list now

[mental musk]

becouse it has an unique shape

[strange quiver]

BL2 isn't really essential

[haughty pollen]

Yeah that one's an oddball for sure

[steep echo]

E8, alco century, dash 7, sd70?

[strange quiver]

sure

[mental musk]

BQ23-7

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/14/Seaboard_Coast_Line_BQ23-7_3001.jpg

[haughty pollen]

That thing is beautiful, I wish that cab type had been more common

[mental musk]

indeed I love it

but would be better without the front balconey?

https://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/6/5/7/2657.1048019940.jpg

looks nice in CSX livery

[mellow loom]

For a release, the most important thing is gameplay coverage I think if aiming for a v1.0

At least one locomotive and carriage every 30-40 years from whenever railways began in that region. At least one wagon per cargo class every ~50 years

That's enough to make the game playable. Ideally a few commuter and long distance alternateives, but they're not hard requirements

[strange quiver]

Yee, that's pretty much the plan

I think I've got a decent selection of passenger locomotives atm, so it'd just be freight ones to focus on

Gonna make sure I get stuff like the GP38, SD40, dash 9 etc

[mental musk]

maybe U50 and U50C?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a7/Union_Pacific_GE_U50C_No._5005.jpg

I like the design

[vestal minnow]

https://share.google/NSOjTbzKxdwDGyji5

[earnest meadow]

LA Metro CRRC HR4000?

or is that grouped in with the Hitachi UTVs

[strange quiver]

Long term, yes, but its not essential atm

[strange quiver]

Any metro stuff will be in a future rapid transit update

And I don't intend on working on that at least until next year, rn I wanna focus on MUs, locomotives and wagons

[rancid bear]

Can’t wait for the set! Siemens Venture varieties perhaps?

[strange quiver]

Oh yh, them and the chargers are essential

[finite mountain]

GE Genesis?

[strange quiver]

Already done

[vestal minnow]

Ok

[rancid bear]

@strange quiver did I recall correctly that your todo list was publicly accessible?

[modest violet]

Think its this one
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ARb0h0whRNbf8zt6wdXY-O1Pa2zIgEjDsbNkuVG6VGE/edit?tab=t.p6t1d1xx27so

[strange quiver]

Yee, thats it

Only the wagon and modern locomotives roster I'm working on atm

[rancid bear]

Beauty, I’ll have a peruse. I just spent a week on Via Rail Venture sets so kinda fired up for this haha

[strange quiver]

Fair fair

There's a lot on the todo list atm

[vestal minnow]

The link is pinned somewhere right? For easy access

[strange quiver]

Yee, its pinned in this chat

[strange quiver]

American station set 🤔

future idea...

tbh I'm surprised no one made one in the past

kind of a shame that we only have European and british style stations

[haughty pollen]

There is a US station set and a Canadian station set but they're both ancient (and the Canadian one is hard to find)

[strange quiver]

yee, I saw those

but they also have basically nothing in them

[haughty pollen]

Maybe a collaboration with @solemn heath is in order 🙂

[strange quiver]

tbh I was thinking of reaching out to him...

he's also done 30th street station in Philly, which would be on my US list for station buildings

although I'd probably wanna focus on Australian stuff first

[solemn heath]

You could also use my PANAM building for a NYC grand central terminal!

in terms of when I'll get back to drawing, I gotta study for end of year exams for a bit, but I should be good in a month and a half I'd say

[strange quiver]

true

[strange quiver]

tbf, I'm the same, I've gotta focus on my thesis atm, and then potentially move house, and find a new job 🙁

[solemn heath]

unfortunately it doesn't have flipped versions, though those would be easy (I hope)

[strange quiver]

but if you wanna collaborate on a station set, I'll do the platforms and code if you wanna do the buildings and other greebles

[solemn heath]

oh sure! I haven't worked on stations yet, but it'd be nice to do!

I might not be too good with platforms, but I would be able to do things like buildings and such

[strange quiver]

it comes with time

[solemn heath]

yeah of course, after all i didn't learn to draw in a day

[strange quiver]

but yh, I'll start looking into design stuff

I already know vaguely what I want to do with an Australian station set

[solemn heath]

i can teach you how to draw TTD sprites in the future!

[strange quiver]

gonna steal the code from @cold scarab s station set that I think is good to go?

[strange quiver]

sure, I need to expand into doing more than just trains lmao

[solemn heath]

Maybe I should consult flogeza on how to make stations? I've been wanting to ask the best TTD artists on tips and tricks to get better at art, so that could be a good first

[strange quiver]

you can if you want

[solemn heath]

that sounds good!

[strange quiver]

although tbf, I can handle most of the code stuff

[solemn heath]

oh yeah gotcha

[strange quiver]

but yh, we'll work out how to do it in future 🙂

rn I need to layout what I wanna do, but also do my uni work

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QuNhWmG-awD4S6J7dvPxu0wRVQ21DIphZeW5yMiKEkI/edit?usp=sharing

under the stations tab is a basic overview I made a while back

[solemn heath]

looks like you got a lot of stuff to draw...

[strange quiver]

ideally I'd wanna have different platform types, that change automatically, like in Wensim's station set

[solemn heath]

Big scope is always nice though how i work is by just drawing what comes to mind, not so much working off a list

[strange quiver]

island station buildings ideally would auto-update just like other greebles, and that shouldn't be too hard to do either with sprite stacking

[strange quiver]

yee, I prefer to pre-plan everything beforehand

it's why I have so much documentation

I even have documentation for sets that I've worked on a bit, but not publicly shown off...

[solemn heath]

ah ok whatever works with you

[solemn heath]

ooh i'm curious

[strange quiver]

secret 🙂

[solemn heath]

awhhhhhh

[strange quiver]

it's only one set atm, and it was just test for doing MUs differently, but the trains in it were in the signal pack screenshots

[solemn heath]

ah gotcha

but yeah i'd be happy to draw some stations for you when i have the time!

[strange quiver]

perfect >:)

but yh, I gotta do uni work now so aa

[vestal minnow]

Would love to see Grand Central or LA Union stations represented

[mental musk]

Buffalo Central Terminal would be neat

[strange quiver]

I'm sure they'd be able to be done

it's interesting, because if you look at most stations in NA, they're all largely separate to the actual platforms

so they probably wouldn't be too hard to do

really not sure how to do stations like there, where the platforms and buildings are integrated, or underground

but it'll be something to think about

[haughty pollen]

Easy, just raise the station and put the platforms underground like this

The elevated ones can be done too, but it's a little trickier with custom foundations

[strange quiver]

yee, that's probably what I'll do

not really another way to do it tbh

[strange quiver]

Also an over station building like Gare Du Palais would be really cool

that tickles my monkey brain

[strange quiver]

also something I just realised, but there's no way to use an F/E unit with a cab car leading

it'll always be facing the wrong way with how the code works

I'll have to think about how/if I want to fix it

[haughty pollen]

can you not ctrl-click to flip it?

[strange quiver]

if you flip it, it becomes a B-unit

[haughty pollen]

ah I see

Just add a switch to make it a reversed A-unit if it's on the end of the train

position_in_consist_from_end

[frosty sand]

Perhaps the B unit should be a separate variant from the A unit? Not sure how much that would bloat your vehicle IDs.

[haughty pollen]

That's a good option too, would make it more flexible so you could easily do A-B-B-A units etc

[strange quiver]

the code's already set up to allow that!

if you flip it, it'll swap from an A to a B unit that lines up automatically

it works the same as in the original NARS

[haughty pollen]

It's still more limited than variants would be, because you can't do arbitrary A-A-A setups for example

[strange quiver]

yeah, but I think that's a worthwhile compromise, since it wasn't that common IRL, and having separate A/B units would add an additional hassle to most players

I do wanna do separate B-units though, but only for locomotives where it wasn't the default for them to have them (SD40B, GP38B etc)

[severe elbow]

i feel your falling into the same trap andy did

[strange quiver]

how so?

[haughty pollen]

Variants aren't a hassle for players to build, they're a breeze compared to livery refits

[strange quiver]

true, but I'm also not doing livery refits

imo the way I'm doing it atm is the most frictionless for the player

but yh, I got it working, it's just one line of code

[haughty pollen]

Ah nice

[strange quiver]

now you can do a goofy 1930s high speed train 🙂

[wind valley]

if you do american stations you gotta have (as a nyc-metro foamer)

• grand central (nyc)
• old penn station (pre-demolishment) (prr)
• madison square garden (post-demolishment) (prr)
• hoboken (dl&w/erie/el)
• exchange place (prr)
• communipaw (cnj)
  (noting that half of these are terminals with direct ferry connections lmao, so dock sprites as well)

[severe elbow]

hoboken is really nice

underrated imo

[mental musk]

Syracuse station?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3c/CNY_Railroad.JPG/1200px-CNY_Railroad.JPG

[strange quiver]

yee, they're all considerations at this point

[strange quiver]

what's that one?

[vestal minnow]

Vancouver Waterfront

[strange quiver]

neat

[vestal minnow]

Major hub for skytrain, seabus and west coast express services

I took this in 2022 during the mourning period for the queen, so that’s why the flags are at half mast here

[strange quiver]

ah fair

[strange quiver]

hey, is there a way to have a sprite change based on time?

in NSW, we have flashing yellow signals, so I'm wondering if there's a way to have it so every half second it'll change from a yellow signal thats on, to one that's off

I looked through the documentation, and there doesn't appear to be a specific switch that can do it, unless I'm missing something

[frosty sand]

No, you’ll need to use palette animation.

[strange quiver]

bugger

[frosty sand]

Of which yellow is an option, so you might be able to do it

[strange quiver]

yeah, I tried it, but it didn't look good

it's fine, it's not that much of an issue

I've got 30 mins before I'm kidnapped to go camping, but I'm gonna get the base code ready for doing a north american signal pack

[frosty sand]

There are some unused palette colours, I’ve seen discussions before about adding more animated palette colours like blinking yellow and blinking green

[strange quiver]

tbh, I think it would be better to use that for other stuff

blinking colours aren't that useful

[frosty sand]

It comes up surprisingly often for signals

[strange quiver]

have different colours that are solid would be better imo

[strange quiver]

yh, but not for much else

[frosty sand]

Nah, solid colours are possible with 32bpp

[strange quiver]

fair

actually, is company colour possible with 32bpp?

[mellow loom]

Yes, but you have to do a bit of overlay stuff

Basically overlay a 2CC layer over your 32bpp sprite

[strange quiver]

ah okay

something to keep in mind for future

[strange quiver]

has anyone done a tri-light signal before btw? really not sure how to do these myself

[wind valley]

i've attempted to do this in CASS2 and failed, mainly because you'd need some insane antialiasing that i do not know how to draw, or have it be too big to look good (2x2 lights) or too small to be visible (1x1 lights)

[mental musk]

https://railgallery.ru/photo/02/94/33/294337.jpg

Gronk, but Hungary

[haughty pollen]

Please stop posting irrelevant stuff, this is not related to what Ragin is making

[cold scarab]

I think I am redrawing my waterfront station

[strange quiver]

yeah.. I have some vague ideas, but I'll give them a try tomorrow

[strange quiver]

kinda shit, but it also works?

[steep echo]

Your “kinda shit” is still top work

[strange quiver]

yh, but it's a quick bodge 🙁

in game it looks fine tbh

I guess the simplest option works the best

[steep echo]

Maybe they’re a bit tall

[strange quiver]

not neccesarily a fan of how the side view looks

[strange quiver]

a little, but I try and use the same height one for everything

side view needs tweaking, but I think that's tomorrows problem

[gritty bone]

IF YOU MAKE THE HARRISBURG AND PITTSBURGH STATION BUILDINGS I WILL CHERISH YOU TILL I DIE

[steep echo]

Oh wow

Those would be interesting to see yeah

[left cipher]

that dome thing out front is perfect for a road stop damn

[gritty bone]

Throwing these in too because holy hell they are too damn good.

yes, the last one is fully elevated

[strange quiver]

Its something to be considered :))

[vestal minnow]

https://www.naturallywood.com/projects/brentwood-town-centre-station/

Brentwood station on the Vancouver skytrain

The station itself won awards for its canoe like shape and sustainable wood structure

[strange quiver]

it's something to look into