f1-technical

[feral vessel]

It didn't affect them

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/explained-why-black-mercedes-livery-doesnt-cause-cooling-issue/4828347/#:~:text=The Mercedes Formula 1 team,effects" on the car's temperatures

[vernal elk]

Cool Thanks

[zenith pumice]

to my knowledge, the black Mercedes had a protective silver coating underneath all the important bits that could overheat

I remember I asked if a natural phenomenon, Kirchhoff’s Radiation Law, which stated that emissivity is equal to absorptivity (in simpler words, a body emits the same amount of energy it absorbs. it applied to the SR71 since it too was black, and concerns about overheating were solved using KRL) would apply to the Mercedes cars

the logic was that because it’s black, it absorbs a lot of energy from the sun, but also since it’s a black object, it’ll emit all that energy back according to KRL

but, I missed a key part of what KRL was: it had to be at thermal equilibrium, and so it didn’t apply in this case (I’m told that since two bodies were exchanging heat, hence the system was not in thermal equilibrium)

even to this day though, I’m unsure if KRL applies here or not since I’m not sure if we’re in thermal equilibrium or not… it would be interesting to maybe continue it

anyways, small little detour there

[halcyon forge]

Honestly, since people love the V12 engine sounds, they should fabricate false noises with the Hybrid engines with a sound generator to keep fans happy, since the limit is 10.000 RPM or something.

[rich gust]

Just a thought

2022 regs were developed to improve racing by reducing dirty air as such

what if a team brought along a concept that not only caused more dirty air than intended, but also surpassed what was caused by the 2017-21 regs

[zenith pumice]

I don’t see how that’s possible

[silent heron]

Unless there’s a massive loophole (huge doubt), it’s impossible

[floral bramble]

Does the new regs effect the slipstream on the following car? Less slipstream? More?

[silent heron]

I imagine less slipstream

If dirty air is reduced slipstream is reduced

[rich gust]

anyone know which page of the technical regs we can find the info about rear wings?

[sudden scroll]

You should be able to ctrl f easily witj something like rear plane, or just rear

[silent heron]

Page 30

[jagged rose]

i think i already asked this here, but are F2 and/or F3 also getting new chassiss?

[fringe wave]

No

[viscid shoal]

let's just hope we won't get a train of cars unable to overtake each other since no car has a significant advantage

[nocturne dock]

f4 is getting a halo

thats it

[silent heron]

ye let's hope so. drs should make a difference, but I would find it quite boring having a train of cars with only the top 2 passing each other at the end of straights for the whole race

[sudden scroll]

You mean, like we have now?

[silent heron]

do we though?

it's not just a train of cars

there are different fights in the midfield

here I would think of a line of cars boringly following each other and just the top 2/3 being able to pass each other

but this won't happen ofc

because teams will find loopholes

[silent heron]

moto3 style, but everyone has the same bike

[sudden scroll]

How could this happen

It doesn't happen in f2 and they have equal cars

[short ether]

F4 didn't have a halo before?

[silent heron]

ye I wasn't taking into account different strategies and driver with different skill levels

[short ether]

Thought FIA required all open wheel championships under their jurisdiction to have the halo by 2020

Guess not

[nocturne dock]

until now nk

no

[nocturne dock]

actually it was introduced in 2021 yea

the different championships have until 2023 to gradually make the change

[jagged rose]

massive reg change

[prisma cloak]

F4 existed?

[short ether]

Lmao

[nocturne dock]

since 2014 lmao

[civic fern]

i don't think it's reduced

dirty air is dirty because of the vortices and turbulence created by the wings

slipstream is the car in front pushing air out of the way

so the amount of air being displaced should be the same because the frontal cross sections are the same

its just that with less wings causing vortices and a less turbulent wake, the said air is less dirty, but not less in volume

[zenith pumice]

why would less dirty air mean less slipstream

[silent heron]

idk, I thought the car ahead, since it would disturb less air it would also clear less air, but as dragonkrieg explained this isn't the case

[versed inlet]

that's not how it works in a straight line

in a straight line there is really no dirty air at all

no matter the level of downforce, a car ahead in a straight line is still pushing an air pathway for the car behind

creating slipstream

[green spade]

does anyone know how to add f1 calender to iphone calender ?

[nocturne dock]

#ot｜tech

[green spade]

thanks

[silent heron]

Oh well oh well

I have reached page 204 and I can see that Adrian isn’t happy at all with Schumacher or Benetton

[civic fern]

oh just wait till you see the parts about Mr. B. Eccelstone and Max Mosley

[silent heron]

I have seen him talk bad about Ecclestone, and how FIA is the Ferrari international aid.. bla bla

He ain’t wrong in some points though

💀

[civic fern]

"when they can't get it to work for them, they complain about it"

then again, wait till you get to the Hakkinen chapters

Mosley makes Masi look like an amateur

[silent heron]

🤣🤣

[silent heron]

Lmaooo

[left zephyr]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzdV5lfMl7E

[quick wind]

talk about a secret.

[stark adder]

🤣

[languid fractal]

Anyone have an explanation why Ferrari couldn't make their tires last worse than everyone else

[short ether]

Maybe some kind of duct or something

[silent heron]

I'll have a read through regs

Engine Cover
Bodywork declared as “Engine Cover” must:
a. Lie within RV-RBW-EC.
b. Be arranged such that when viewed from the side, no part of RS-RBW-EC that lies
within RV-RBW-EC may be visible.

ye ok that's legal

is it possible for it to be an exhaust or something to avoid overheating?

[fickle raft]

https://twitter.com/ScarbsTech/status/1479578818939600904?t=aYvUBSdzt_SL_XgK0vZhCQ&s=19

Craig Scarborough (@ScarbsTech)

https://t.co/4JTaCX6fyn

Likes

549

Twitter · Jan 7, 2022, 10:20 PM

Ho ho ho, Scarbs thinks it's a pull rod front suspension for the McLaren...

[silent heron]

Isn’t that… Illegal?

[sudden scroll]

why would it be illegal

[silent heron]

No no mb

[sudden scroll]

Wishbones / Links, Track-
rod, Push/pull Rod,
Bearings, Inboard
Brackets not integrated in
the survival cell,
Fasteners, Wheel Tethers,
local electrical and
electronic components
in the list of parts classification

[silent heron]

What’s the difference?

I mean, what does each do

[upper ivy]

Its just two different suspension systems; basically their names describe how they work.
Push rod pushes the damper/spring; Pull rod pulls on it.

[silent heron]

Oh ok, thanks

[civic fern]

http://www.formula1-dictionary.net/pushrod_pullrod.html

pretty good read on the subject

[silent heron]

Thanks, will have a read

[nocturne dock]

haas car

[weary thicket]

Is this 2022 specs or earlier

[nocturne dock]

2021

as told by the smol message on the top lol

[edgy anchor]

"capable of 15,000rpm"

Uhuh.

[nocturne dock]

the engines can do 15000 but capped at 13000 for reliability reasons

and shift up around 12000

[edgy anchor]

They would probably do 15,000 but there's no point building en engine for a rev range they'd never see due to fuel

[hidden gulch]

What size were the tyres in 2007/8 seasons?, they looked really good on the cars

[silent heron]

width: 355 mm (14 in) at the front and 380 mm (15 in) at the rear
diameter: 660 mm (26 in), or 670 mm (26.4 in) for wets

[stark adder]

https://www.reddit.com/r/F1Technical/comments/rzqf8g/close_up_shot_of_the_2022_model_car_via_noble_jon/

[hidden gulch]

Okay so this year ones are bigger right?

[silent heron]

yes

[silent heron]

very cool

[stark adder]

just over a month until we see ferrari's car

[silent heron]

is it announced?

when it'll be revealed

[stark adder]

yeah in this events at the top has the date

[civic fern]

….its a customer Ferrari

[nocturne dock]

bootleg ferrari

[civic fern]

Did they build anything on their own

Cuz isnt the entire chassis from Dallara

[nocturne dock]

i think so

in 2016 it was but after that not so sure

[civic fern]

Seems Dallara are still pulling through

[nocturne dock]

hmm

[edgy anchor]

Diameter is going up from 660 to 725
The tread width is staying at 305 front and 405 rear, which about the same at the front compared to the 2000's but definitely bigger at the rear

[halcyon forge]

Haas played 2021 smart, finishing last when the prize pool was halved & therefore receiving additional wind tunnel runs.

[edgy anchor]

https://twitter.com/DrivenByData_/status/1480469690141097984?t=DLE0JLrtZ9jOMOUos2Z3SQ&s=09

Driven By Data (@DrivenByData_)

Upshift RPM Analysis for Drivers and Teams in the 2021 Formula 1 World Championship [Details below]

#F1 #Formula1

Twitter · Jan 10, 2022, 9:20 AM

[celest cypress]

what does the SOC switches do

[tall wyvern]

Deployment/harvesting for the ES

[short ether]

i got this down so far

flow spill over endplates, creates drag and dirty air

To think of a couple disadvantages to drag, other than top speed, fuel consumption is a major one.
The drivers are already tasked with fuel conservation, having to adopt tactics such as lifting and coasting to make their maximum fuel limit of 110kg last them through the 300km race distances - and this is quite prominent when you stick a large piece of bodywork at the front of the car, as the air particles are washed out into the surrounding area.
This outwash of particles, induced by air resistance, is commonly referred to as ‘dirty air.’ It can have a drastic effect for following cars as well. Formula 1 machines are designed to have a steady, constant flow of air particles along them.
However, when there is a car in front of another, the following car tends to suffer excessive tyre wear as the aerodynamic elements cannot function as they were designed.
This is because the leading car effectively punches a hole in the air, which leaves the following car with little to no air particles to flow on its own aerodynamic elements, straining the tyres further than intended, and altering race strategies.

@short ether

[short ether]

you summed it up pretty well

thank you so much mate

been killing myself for like 8 hours straight trying to finish this physics project

[stark adder]

beautiful data ngl

[edgy anchor]

'zactly whut I'm sayin'

[fickle raft]

Pull Rod Front Suspension for Ferrari in 2022.

[civic fern]

makes sense, the nose is more angled and lower where the front wheels are attached

i don't think they'll be alone with that

[fickle raft]

yeah, McLaren's recent picture suggests that they too are going for that.

It's just noteworthy because it will be opposite of what we have been seeing in the past few years.

[civic fern]

Ferrari have gone flip flopping regardless of era

went from push rod in 2011 to pull rod in 2012 for god knows what reason

[vernal elk]

Time to find a coronation between pull / push vs wins / wdc / constructors

Do you think mclaren has the ability to give lando and ric a car that could get podiums consistently given they have the best engine on the grid (as of right now) mixed with the new aero regulations? I feel like they could based on how well they did last season.

[grand cosmos]

Tbh no I feel like they want to stay a mid-field team so there not gonna try to be faster than anyone so there just gonna try for the care basically is what I feel

[languid fractal]

Why do you say they don't want?

[civic fern]

Its not that pull rod is an ineffective concept

[grand cosmos]

They had a amazing season they may want to keep the midd field top team

[silent heron]

but why not top team?

[grand cosmos]

I don’t know just something that tells me they would want to keep there momentum in the mid field

[languid fractal]

Oh okay, Well I think they want to get to the top

[grand cosmos]

Possible

[languid fractal]

It is, we will only know when they teams get on track

[grand cosmos]

Mhm

[sudden scroll]

🧹

[grave fiber]

and its gone

totally was an f1 car

[zinc smelt]

I think its a bit more relaxing to be the best of the rest

[fallow fern]

hey guys how do you mathematically calculate a racing line?

[solid raft]

search it up

[sudden scroll]

since you seem to know, tell them what to search 😉

[short ether]

here’s a fun little video for you - (at the time) reigning F1 world champion Nigel Mansell explaining the technical differences between his 1992 Williams FW14B and the 1993 Lola Indycar, which he drove to the Indycar championship that season

https://youtu.be/FRcMeRtWCZU

(pic of FW14B for comparison)

[fickle raft]

ehhh, totally new regs next season. So don't think historic precedence plays a factor.

We had mostly push rod front suspension and pull rod rear suspension in the hybrid era.

Apart from maybe one or two differences (F14T)

[distant hollow]

is it competitive to get a job at one of the f1 teams (preferably mclaren or ferrari)...im a student as of now but i will be studying software engineering when i get to college and being an f1 fan, i'd love to be a part of a team....so can someone share their insights on this topic if they can....how can i get a software engineering job at an f1 team

[sudden scroll]

First you should look up what they're looking for, it's not really what you're going to learn at school

[distant hollow]

it depends upon the time when i graduate you know....but i heard there are openings in mclaren and the skills they happen to want are something i am proficient at well mostly

[sudden scroll]

these skills being? from what i saw usually, they want low level things, electronics, C, and even more niche languages

[distant hollow]

yeah experience in python, C, electronics, , proficiency in general purpose languages

and ofc a bachelors degree which i will get

soft skills being a ''logical approach to analytics and problem solving''

i have experience in coding for linux systems, cloud computing and networking is smth i look to start very soon

[sudden scroll]

ok cool, you already got lots of skills before you BSc

[distant hollow]

looks like....

[lapis bough]

It's probably worth having a crack at making something related to f1

The shitty truth is that F1 teams have talented young people with the right qualifications but no experience falling out their ears

So having something to distinguish yourself would be super valuable

It'd be worth trying to get involved w/ something like formula student if you get the opportunity too

[tall wyvern]

DO FORMULA STUDENT

[distant hollow]

yeah i can agree

[distant hollow]

quite true

[lapis bough]

honestly this just because it sounds fun

[distant hollow]

thank you for your insights mate.....much appreciated

[lapis bough]

really wish i had when i was a student and i work in law lmao

[tall wyvern]

I also wish I did, and I did aerospace engineering

For real my number one advice is just do relevant extra-curricular stuff, tonnes of people apply to F1 teams with good degrees, you need more stuff, preferably that relates to motorsport/business engineering (uni groups that make aircraft etc). Formula student obviously best.

[distant hollow]

right taking your advice, let me get myself enrolled into it....thanks to you as well for your insights

[tall wyvern]

F1 teams don’t even look at my application and I have a good MASTERS degree from a good uni in aerospace. They need demonstration. To the extent that there are people I know who are doing another masters degree in race car aerodynamics or the like just to get looked at.

[distant hollow]

omg

do you see yourself doing another masters?

looks pretty tough to get into f1

[tall wyvern]

If you do formula student etc you should be fine, just a lot of people go to uni and expect the degree alone to be enough which it isn’t. There are only 10 F1 teams and it’s the pinnacle of engineering aspiration for a lot of people so you really need to demonstrate that you’re a standout. I am tempted but I’m happy enough in Aerospace.

[distant hollow]

i see

plus i think for what i want to get into (software engineering), there wont be such a high demand in teams since im not into the mainstream motorsport engineering they look for

so extra tough

[raven gorge]

Wed bwull

[pastel falcon]

https://twitter.com/HillF1/status/1481590852732559361?cxt=HHwWgoC9-fvB1Y8pAAAA

Damon Hill (@HillF1)

@dasilveirajp @GeorgeHarrison @SkySportsF1 @F1 @fia If you are a Hamilton fan, do yourself a favour and get over it because its not coming back. Ever. Look forward to seeing @LewisHamilton sock it to 'em in 2022. Winners don't constantly bleat on about how unfair it all is. Show some backbone. Queue hate ....✌🏻 #f1

Retweets

280

Likes

2249

Twitter · Jan 13, 2022, 11:36 AM

Okey, but now answer me this, Do you think the ask few labs at Abu was fair?

These F1 reporters always call out Ham fans but never the FIA

I wonder why

[teal oasis]

interesting that he is saying that

[sudden scroll]

gentle reminder that Damon Hill is a british F1 WDC

[teal oasis]

yeah

[pastel falcon]

94 sch

[teal oasis]

damon was very pro lewis this year

towards the end of the season he stopped being neutral during some sky coverage

[pastel falcon]

Im not denying that Max won , we just want FIA and Massi admit they chose the outcome of the race and championship

[sudden scroll]

this is not within our powers to do so

[red skiff]

Yes

[lapis bough]

No less fair than any safety car

It just be like that sometimes in racing

[civic fern]

no other safety car only allowed select cars to overtake, specifically the ones between 1st and 2nd

no other safety car was ever called in the same lap the order to overtake is given

the regulations provide guidelines for both of the above to happen

if we're just going to defer to "Masi does whatever he wants", legally or not, then whats the point of writing the regs in the first place

that confusion must be cleared before Bahrain. either force the Race Director to follow outlined Safety Car section, or delete the Safety Car section of the rules entirely

[fickle raft]

yes which is why they are reviewing that and will make a proposal to the F1 commission in February.

[crimson granite]

Lmao based

[silent heron]

Ye and the announcement on the 18th March

At the Bahrain GP

🙄

[fickle raft]

Yeah. It is something.

[nocturne dock]

lol wait 2 months

[fickle raft]

That means they will properly lay down the guidelines of stewarding/race direction that is to be followed from that weekend itself.

I think it's a good idea tbh

[silent heron]

I think it’s bs to wait so long for new guidelines.

1. They are probably doing it so late to keep Lewis Hamilton
2. The stewards and race direction will have new regulations to read and learn in just 2 days time for the race

[fickle raft]

I don't think there will be any regulation related to stewarding. They specifically said that a review was being conducted regarding Safety Car regulations.

So if there are any changes, it will only be in that part of the Sporting regs.

Also, no way Lewis is seriously retiring? Even if he takes a hiatus from the sport, it would probably be like Prost and he will return after a year away

[nocturne dock]

h e i s n o t f u c k i n g r e t i r i n g

[sudden scroll]

Was there an official announcement from him or the team?

[fickle raft]

No. There are only rumors

[sudden scroll]

We don't want rumours in this channel

[zenith pumice]

then for the time being, it's probably safe to assume that he's not retiring

given he's signed a contract for next year too

[sudden scroll]

Keep rumours for #formula-1 or some place else

[fickle raft]

(yes? I didn't say he was retiring. I said, "if" he does take that decision...)

[sudden scroll]

Thx 😁

[fickle raft]

which was a reply to the above statement saying they want to "keep Lewis Hamilton"

[tall wyvern]

Is technical not supposed to be a technical channel?

[nocturne dock]

by technical its like

very specific car stuff

[sudden scroll]

This channel is supposed to be that yes

[thorny thistle]

.regs

[paper wing]

F1 Regulations

FIA Formula One World Championship Regulations

All F1 regulations documents subject to change, see link in title for most recent versions

Sporting Regulations

2022 Formula 1 — Sporting Regulations — Issue 3

Technical Regulations

2022 Formula 1 — Technical Regulations — Issue 8

Financial Regulations

2021 Formula 1 — Financial Regulations — Issue 8

FIA Sporting Code

2022 FIA — International Sporting Code

Jan 14, 2022, 12:00 PM

[stark adder]

nice

[wide stump]

ive been told i can discuss things like physics of f1 here

what do you guys think about a turbulent air compressor for generating downforce

let me know if interested, ill explain the idea in detail

[dark trench]

new wheel rims for f1

[civic hedge]

are wheel covers also there for 2022?

[nocturne dock]

probably

[short ether]

yes

[civic hedge]

ok thanks

[languid fractal]

Hey guys, do you think we will still low rake and high rake concepts in the 22 cars. And also which do you think will be more suitable

[sudden scroll]

Does the concept of rake even make sense with Venturi channels?

I'm not sure

[next robin]

when cars will be presented?

[sudden scroll]

we're updating .carlaunch as the dates are unveiled 🙂

also events

[bitter quest]

With high rake there is less ground effect I think, sooo probably teams will have their cars be as close to the ground as possible and is safe

[next robin]

thanks

[bitter quest]

And I've heard Ferrari is implementing an very aggressive front-end, with a long nose

And teams will likely use a pull-rod suspension system, instead of an push-rod suspension

This has been rumored being on the Ferrari car and also seen on a McLaren teaser

[sudden scroll]

Any engineer capable of clarifying this rake question? @granite tundra , @quick wind ?

[tall wyvern]

Rake will still be as high as possible as long as the underfloor (aka tunnels and diffusers) doesn't stall/can still be fed. Car is apparently understeery and higher rake pushing Cop forwards would be beneficial. no barge boards and floor furnishing bar 4 VGs on the tunnel inlet means this will be harder to achieve though, so i think rake will still go down compared to now, but i doubt it will be level. nose is 25mm lower this year so underbody inlet pressure i imagine is higher next year anyway (i don't know the geometry effects though). teams are still allowed anti-squat built into the suspension but my understanding is it's more regulated, so rake might also drop slightly to counteract the speed penalty of not being able to squat the car so far.

disclaimer: not an f1 engineer

this is also barring any smart exploits teams think of regarding rake and aero geometries

[quick wind]

What is the actual question?

Are you asking if rake has an effect with ground effect?

[sudden scroll]

Will there still be big philosophies rake wise

Like we had with RB vs Mercedes in the previous years

[quick wind]

The question is very open-ended aha, not my area of expertise unless the scope is narrowed.
It's very difficult to answer this one, there are so many factors other than just rake which determine a car's performance.

Although rake has a global effect on the car's aerodynamic features, you can't necessarily state that X will cause Y for this typical situation.

[bitter quest]

hola chico

[short ether]

What the hell is DRS going to look like on the newer cars?

[bitter quest]

probably less effective?

[edgy anchor]

Like DRS did before?

But just instead of flat things either side, it's curved?

[civic fern]

yes

the higher rake angle directly increases the surface area at the exit end

[sudden scroll]

That's what my understanding of the principle tells me as well, but I'm not an engineer

[civic fern]

if you're asking whether you'd see as stark differences like the short RB vs the long Merc as right now, it will depend on how the other areas of the car is integrated into the package

but rake angle is certainly going to be relevant

[halcyon forge]

Who do you think will have the best Aero package?

[civic fern]

depends on who finds the best loophole lol

with the 2021 floor, that went to McLaren

Red Bull and Newey can't be counted out

or the highly underrated Mercedes chassis team

its not just the engine lol

the W08 and W09 stood up well when Ferrari had their engine together. the W10 especially so.

but that about covers all the teams with the actual facilities, resources and manpower to be capable of realistically coming up with the best aero package

well, and Binotto has the hardware i guess but its really the soft matter thats questionable

[plush panther]

Exactly

[terse meteor]

I think that Ferrari will come back stronger than the last 2 years. I hope its gonna bee a close fight betwern rb mercedes and ferrari, and maybe mclaren close behind them

[spiral gyro]

lets see

[empty pelican]

that penis

[green marlin]

My bet for this season is Mercedes, Redbull and Ferrari. Perhaps also McLaren.

I think they have the best total package and the best base to turn all of the factors to 0 and restart.

[short ether]

im too bored to type the command

[nocturne dock]

.carlaunch

[paper wing]

2022 Formula1 Car Launches

TBA
TBA
<t:1645099200:D>
<t:1644584400:D>
TBA
TBA
<t:1644490800:D>
TBA
TBA
TBA

All times subject to change by teams

[nocturne dock]

yoooooooooooo

[celest cypress]

this just got updated yooooooooooooooo

[plush panther]

At this rate i might get a birthday present 👀

Feb 23

[frozen bolt]

Good luck man

[ornate bough]

🤞🤞

[edgy anchor]

https://twitter.com/motorsport_it/status/1483397548094205958?s=21

Motorsport.com Italia (@Motorsport_IT)

#F1 | #Ferrari: chiara alla presentazione, più scura al debutto?

#Scuderiaferrari | #Formula1
https://t.co/XlwlnudtQG

Twitter · Jan 18, 2022, 11:15 AM

Oohp

Oooooohp

[bitter quest]

oh la la

[plush panther]

😳

[bitter quest]

https://tenor.com/view/fia-toto-wolff-f1-formula1-mercedes-f1-gif-23790110

[fresh bison]

Toto

[covert stream]

does rake still have any good effect with this new era

[crimson granite]

https://racingnews365.com/newey-2022-rules-will-force-red-bull-to-change-high-rake-concept

[covert stream]

NOOOOOO

PEREZ’S REAR END IS GONE

lewis cant see that big rear end anymore

[plush panther]

My guess is that, with the ground effect on the new cars, rake would make the new cars less effective 🤷‍♂️

[spiral gyro]

exactly you would want the car to be as close to the ground as much as possible so that ground effect is more effctive

[plush panther]

🧠 im just so smart 💪

[short ether]

@covert stream here's an answer by an actual f1 engineer

[sudden scroll]

🧹

[vernal elk]

So what can teams put R&D into car wise with the new regulations? It seems like the two big ones, aero and engines, are pretty locked down and so is some of the suspension. Hybrid unit still or is that still considered part of the overall engine?

[civic fern]

Actually i think PU is completely free

Cuz theres gonna be an engine freeze 2023-2026

So they’re letting all the manufacturers get their engine designs in before that happens

[vernal elk]

I thought the freeze was this year but I guess I'm wrong. I think indy is going hybrid this year too

It will be interesting to see how those two stack up against eachother

[nocturne dock]

2022-2026

[nocturne dock]

indy will start testing the new hybrid cars just year and will implement them next year

rip the 2.2L twin turbo v6

[civic fern]

how the hell is a hybrid going to work on an oval

[nocturne dock]

indycar races on road courses too lol

mostly road courses

[civic fern]

yeah but Indy 500

highkey more important than the entire indy series

[nocturne dock]

probably set to a very low usage

[civic fern]

its like Le Mans and the WEC

[nocturne dock]

so to not kill the battery in 20 seconds

[civic fern]

yeah but if you use tiny usage you might as well use tiny battery

like if you only use/regen 10% of your battery a lap

the cells holding the other 90% which never gets used, are just dead weight

[nocturne dock]

the road courses will probably use them

[civic fern]

yeah hopefully

i think even in F1, it's a net negative every lap at Monza

you don't regen as much as you full throttle a lap

[nocturne dock]

gonna be 2.4L now lol

[civic fern]

then again, hybrid tech has come a long way since the days of the state-of-the-art 918 Spyder having a battery life measured in literal laps of the Nurburgring

[nocturne dock]

mhm

nordschelife or normal nurburgring

probably nordschleife

[glacial light]

is there more or less grip in the newer tires than the previous ones?

[nocturne dock]

just the rim size changed so i dont believe they will be any change in grip

[glacial light]

i'm pretty sure they're like slightly bigger in outer diameter too though

[edgy anchor]

They're going to trial using Oval Hybrid Push to Pass but it might be that on Ovals because they reduce power anyway that the MGU-K might just be used as a starter

[floral bramble]

Will there be more sparks next year due to the fact that most of the downforce comes from the body of the car?

[edgy anchor]

No, at least I don't think so as the plank is the same width but shorter

[floral bramble]

Ight thkx

[bitter quest]

https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/s97atv/estimated_aero_testing_for_all_teams_and_why_22/

very interesting post

[languid fractal]

Gave it a read

[hazy ridge]

so...

the wood

is

wood

[short ether]

It was wood

[hazy ridge]

ye

[short ether]

Now it’s metal

[hazy ridge]

it alwys been wood

wut?

there no way its metal

[short ether]

That’s why you see the cars sparking look at the qatar gp

[hazy ridge]

dude

listen

the plank is still made out of wood

but they place some small bits of titanium on that wood

[short ether]

Then how does it spark

[hazy ridge]

so that the titanium bits make contact

with the surface

[short ether]

Last time I checked wood doesn’t spark

[hazy ridge]

the titanium bits spark

[short ether]

But I don’t think they would make it out of wood because it could be a fire risk

Not anymore anyway

[hazy ridge]

the wood can be made immune to fire

its not that hard

[short ether]

Make it wet?

[hazy ridge]

and it doesnt catch fire that easily

idk theres tones of method

different chemicals

[deft burrow]

Skids
The lower surface of the plank may be fitted with flush mounted metal skids which:
a. May only be fitted in place of plank material.
b. Have a total area no greater than 20000mm² when viewed from directly beneath the
car.
c. Are no greater than 4000mm² in area individually when viewed from directly beneath
the car.
d. Are fitted in order that their entire lower surfaces are visible from directly beneath
the car.
e. Must have a minimum cross sectional thickness of 15mm across its external
boundaries in plan view.

The minimum wall thickness between an internal fixing hole and the external
boundaries of the skid must be no less than 7.5mm.
f. Must have an upper surface no more than 3mm below the reference plane.
g. Must be designed such that they are secured to the car using the fasteners described
in Article 3.7.13 and that, when viewed from directly beneath the car, no part of the
skid is more than 50mm from the centre line of a fastener which passes through that
skid.
h. Must be made from Titanium alloy

article 3.7.12

from the 2021 regulations

[hazy ridge]

so no wood?

[deft burrow]

A plank is wood

[hazy ridge]

so wood

i knew it

[deft burrow]

with titanium alloy bits

[hazy ridge]

it actually makes sense to be wood

[frank surge]

h. Must be made from Titanium alloy

titanium isnt wood

[hazy ridge]

dude

the bits are titanium

[frank surge]

what bits

[hazy ridge]

why would they use titanium to measure how the plank is scratched across the surface

[frank surge]

wood dont spark

[deft burrow]

The lower surface of the plank may be fitted with flush mounted metal skids

[frank surge]

ah

aight

[deft burrow]

curious as to why a highly flammable material is used under the car though

unless they have it treated a certain way

[hazy ridge]

they 100% did

and its used because how else would they measure the level of scratching?

titanium is string

and its not that flammable

it needs to stay a lot under fire to catch fire

This metal is extremely heavy and when pieces detach they can be extremely harmful. We saw two punctures in Spa previously because of bits of this metal that lay in a kerb and caused damage," he added. "In a worst case scenario they could fly off and hit someone."

^^ charlie whiting

[formal estuary]

Hardwood is hard to catch on fire

You ever light a fire? You need a buttload of smaller sources before a large piece of wood ignites

[edgy anchor]

They actually put titanium fibres in it to use for better sparks among other reasobs

[chilly oyster]

who made the engines for aston martin last year?

[languid fractal]

Merc

[chilly oyster]

oh thanks

[languid fractal]

Cool

[spiral gyro]

Kinda late my bad but the 919 hybrid (lmp1 car) also had a system where the car regenerated power from the extra turbine similar to a TC but the turbine regenerated electricity so when the car was accelerating it also regenerated some energy at the same time so that’s a thing they could possibly use

[civic fern]

That sounds like diverting driveshaft/mechanical work into electrical work

[spiral gyro]

No, the 2nd turbine is driven by the exhaust gases

Forgot to mention

[edgy anchor]

I thought the 919 just had an MGU-H

[civic fern]

what he said comes pretty close to an MGU-H

exhaust gasses driving a turbine which makes electrical energy

well, if you're getting (electrical) energy from the exhaust that would otherwise go to waste, then i suppose you are increasing the amount of energy overall from a given fuel flow

thing is, even at Monza it was a net negative every lap so in the case of an oval it just sounds like delaying the inevitable depletion of the battery

[edgy anchor]

Time to steal a pic of the B193's rear end trialling 4 wheel steering

[tall wyvern]

It’s literally doing that; a huge part of why F1 engines are over 50% thermally efficient now.

[edgy anchor]

MGU-H?

Ew

[sudden scroll]

when did they try this?

[edgy anchor]

1993

Same time as the CVT Williams or mid season and such was also banned

[zinc bison]

I don't understand how Mercedes nose was legal in 2014 when other teams had structure pieces significantly lower, like the red bull pictured?

[upper ivy]

It's just different interpretations of the rules about minimal cross section

I'm pretty sure Mercedes had their nose as high up as was possible

note that they also had the shortest nose

(which actually was a bit problematic because during the season they made it even shorter but needed multiple attempts to pass the crash tests with that)

[edgy anchor]

Formula E Gen.3 is going to be lighter than F1 is...

Pain

[bitter quest]

The MGU-H isnt scrapped yet

During the new engines in 2026 they will be

[edgy anchor]

Also the fuel bag only comes up to the headrest

[languid fractal]

Wait a minute MGU-H Is scrapped?

[granite tundra]

the floor is also already the main downforce generator

[short ether]

look this is for my mum

[bitter quest]

Lol you did visualize everything pretty well

Good job 👍

[short ether]

thabk

[civic fern]

Ironically the RBR looks even higher in that pic

[upper ivy]

Red Bull had their tip coloured black

[civic fern]

Wait thats the tip

[floral bramble]

The mguh is scrapped alrdy??

i though it will be in 2026?

[edgy anchor]

You didn't pay attention to like 2 lines which address this right after the image

[floral bramble]

Ah ok

lmfao thkx

[edgy anchor]

I'm glad you took that as well as intended

[grave fiber]

lmao

[civic fern]

Since apparently this is necessary

[sudden scroll]

what?

[void solstice]

Who will have the most powerful car for the upcoming season

Prediction

[edgy anchor]

I wouldn't mind suggesting that Ferrari or RB-Honda could

[civic fern]

Engine power? Mercedes

Theyre like a good 2 major (i.e. a year’s worth of development) upgrades ahead of everyone else

The overpowered 2019 Ferrari engine that was possibly illegal? Mercedes matched that in 2020, legal to the letter

Another natural step up in 2021

And then whatever magic they did in Brazil is probably major upgrade level

Honestly I think the 2021 Honda was around the 2019 Merc. Theres no way they managed to match 2020 Merc/2019 Ferrari considering where Honda was in 2020

It took Merc a good 2 years of full throttle engine development targeting a possibly illegal Ferrari engine as the goal (which they arguably surpassed) to get to where they are today and I just don’t see Honda replicating that in a year

[viscid shoal]

I'm not entirely sure but we had some Twitter link from a source in the f1 channels during the weekend stating that Merc had designed this new ICE in a special way that it only lasts 4 races

maybe not giving a damn about reliability and then using it for Brazil sprint and race as well as Jeddah and Abu Dhabi

[civic hedge]

?

[jolly tangle]

It was the same engine they used throughout the season, they just cranked the power output up to a point where it could only last 3-4 races instead of the normal 7-8 race cycle

[bitter quest]

yes true

you can see how fast the Mercedes engine was degrading, because in Abu Dhabi, Red Bull was just about faster on the straights

*in quali

Honda's performance degradation was almost zero basically

thats why mercedes and the other mercedes-engine-running teams had to take multiple engines

but Mercedes was the only one capable of basically overclocking the engine you could say

And Mercedes are saying rn that they fixed those problems, but I wouldn't be surprised if Mercedes' performance degradation is higher than the other teams

[crimson granite]

Also because red bull had a very skinny rearwing

[civic fern]

I mean, even during the race Hamilton was noticeably faster on the straights than both Max (actually got a nose ahead last lap) and Perez

[bitter quest]

Yeah that was insane

[short ether]

they ran the engine high

[short ether]

also we need to take into account the slipstream that max got from checo (i hate rb team orders)

[bitter quest]

Funny how you hate rb team orders

[short ether]

compared to merc really i think they are even worse

[bitter quest]

Aight imma head out then

[short ether]

good call

[crimson granite]

It hardly made a difference

He matched the same sector time on his second run without tow

[civic fern]

Track evolution?

Look at the top speed instead

Probably a better indicator tbh

[civic fern]

Team orders are a necessity tbh

F1 tried banning them once all that came of it is “Fernando is faster than you”

[bitter quest]

yes that's what I was trying to say

[languid fractal]

I'm guessing undercuts might not be that strong this season?

[sudden scroll]

what do you base this guess on?

[languid fractal]

Well i thought it was said the tires will last longer and won't fall of the cliff like the current ones

Maybe I need an explanation on what changes will happen on the tires

[celest cypress]

u can barely see-
aston: we do not care

[worldly ferry]

hi guys, im relativly new to f1

where does the MGU-k and MGU k get its energy from

[stark elk]

the earth

[worldly ferry]

from what i can gather it gets energy from the brake heat

and sends it to the battery store

[stark elk]

lmao thats the same thing

[worldly ferry]

that energy is then used to put more power at selected times on the engine

[stark elk]

do you mean "whats mgu k and mgu h"?

[worldly ferry]

yes

i know the definitions

motor generator unit Heat and kinetic

[crimson granite]

thats the MGU-K

The MGU-H uses excess exhaust gases from the engine to feed power to the energy store, which is then used to power the turbocharger's compressor

[zenith pumice]

MGU-H captures thermal energy from the internal combustion engine and turns it into electrical energy for the hybrid system

MGU-K takes thermal energy from the brakes and converts it into electrical energy for the hybrid system

oh sorry yeah, MGU-H is for the turbocharger compressor

MGU-K is for the hybrid system

[worldly ferry]

hybrid system?

i thought it the H and K captures energy and then sends it to the battery pack

which then the driver can dump when needed for extra power

this energy is deployed to the engine or to the turbo

[zinc smelt]

Both.

Idk if i can send links in here but i got an article that explains it pretty well i would say

https://flowracers.com/blog/ers-f1-how-mgu-h-mgu-k-work/

[vocal dirge]

K comes from Kinetic energy you can think of it as a flywheel that gets spinned as the cars slow down

(In a very simplified way)

H comes from Heat

Heat from the breaks

If I know correctly

Which I might

not

[tall wyvern]

Very wrong, K harvesting is the MGU-K motor spinning backwards under braking from the rear wheels generating power, H harvesting is the MGU-H motor spinning backwards from the hot exhaust gases (hence heat)

[edgy anchor]

MGU-K: acts like a beefy alternator under braking, helping slow down the car and create a charge due to the resistance. Under accel it'll act like a 160hp starter motor, and just apply said power and torque to the driver's wishes
MGU-H: acts similarly, as the excess exhaust pressure will keep the turbo going with a resistance, and so that energy will create a charge when the rpm of the turbo is at it's peak
It also serves as a motor to stop the turbo stalling out and therefore lagging, so there's constantly some level of boost regardless of throttle useage

The only difference between these motors charging or discharging is which way the voltage is going

However the MGU-H is much more expensive than the K as it tests the torsional stress of the turbo, the rules are quite open as it's new and wants promotion, and the turbo cannot self propel, which makes it harder to find the balance of charge and deployment without it stalling or fluttering

[plush panther]

Why is it any time someone talks about an MGU-H or MGU-K in a descriptive way, the bot reacts with that weird patrick looking thing

[upper ivy]

I think "MGU" in general is what causes it

or not

[edgy anchor]

The word MGU-H has this emote because the MGU-H is grim and should be laughed at

The MGU-K is fine

[snow wigeon]

Does Formula E teams make their own PU?

[spiral gyro]

Yep, the teams make the gearbox, mgu’s and the motor themselves apart from the chassis which is made by Dallara and the battery which is made by Mclaren

Going a bit off topic Ik but this link should explain it all https://the-race.com/formula-e/the-beginners-guide-to-formula-es-tech-war/

[sudden scroll]

An ex-admin who used to put this

Like when you say vind it auto reacts with a duck

[nocturne dock]

mgu-k gets energy from braking
mgu-h gets energy from hot af exhaust gases

[spiral gyro]

^

yes now lets end the mgu thing

[sudden scroll]

These bits have been said like 4 times at least since the question was asked

[spiral gyro]

fr

[edgy anchor]

8nnit Williams?

[spiral gyro]

Nah

Ain’t Williams

[plush panther]

What’s the proper name for the horn-shaped air intakes on top of many old f1 engines? Most notably on the Ford-Cosworth DFV

[sudden scroll]

Velocity stacks

[plush panther]

Thanks

What purpose do they serve? Just more air into the engine?

[sudden scroll]

The velocity stack is designed to:

Allow smooth and even entry of air at high velocities into the intake tract with the flow stream adhering to the pipe walls known as laminar flow.[2]
Modify the dynamic tuning range of the intake tract by functioning as a resonating pipe which can adjust the frequency of pressure pulses based on its length within the tract.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velocity_stack

[plush panther]

👍

Thanks Reb!

[tawny flower]

guys what is that thing teams put on the halo when the driver is waiting for the next qualifying session?

[nocturne dock]

these things?

probably just a screen with telemetry, timing sheets etc

[plush panther]

Yep

Left screen appears to have things like speed, brake, gas, maybe g forces, right one appears to have just some lap times and possibly track info

[nocturne dock]

yea

[edgy anchor]

Either the previously mentioned Velocity stacks or Intake Trumpets

https://cdn-3.motorsport.com/static/img/mgl/6200000/6240000/6241000/6241700/6241743/s8/f1-ferrari-technical-details-2016-variable-trumpets-assembly.jpg

These being variable ones

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ENsv4MHWwAI0Va3.jpg

Ah here we go

https://www.autozine.org/technical_school/engine/VIM_1.jpg

Here's a rough illustration for the tuning of Trumpet lengths

[granite moss]

probs won’t have g-force on there. The driver isn’t concerned with them. They’ll probs also have their team mates telementary so they can see where they can improve

The right screen tend to typically have upcoming run plans, PU modes to use etc and general track conditions / weather

[worldly ferry]

the blinking light on the rear of F1 cars means what?

[edgy anchor]

It is used to denote when a car is in a hazardous circumstance

So either in the rain

With a pit limiter

Or slower due to MGU Harvest

Bro that's designed for some TORK my dude

Although I will suggest images like that would go in memes

[worldly ferry]

harvesting makes the car slower?

[edgy anchor]

Yes

Because to harvest means to recharge

So there'll be more load on the engine

[plush panther]

Something odd about this car, you can obviously see it’s missing its front wing, one question: why? Is it so that they get more air under the car for ground effect? I’m just very confused by the design choices

[edgy anchor]

They removed the front wings on Ground effect cars on low downforce circuits simply because they weren't needed

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a7/Williams_FW08_2008_Silverstone_Classic.jpg

[nocturne dock]

ground effect generated enough suc that made front wings not necessary

[plush panther]

Very interesting

That wouldn’t pass today

[civic fern]

Jeez one minor touch with the wall and the driver’s legs are gonna be jelly

[plush panther]

That’s not even the worst one

[eager cedar]

Ground effect was so powerful that a front wing just added more drag as the extra downforce wasn’t needed

[short swift]

did RB and AlphaTauri engines recover the 20hp loss?

[languid fractal]

There was some reports that it was the case, not sure how reliable that was

[jolly tangle]

Apparently they've matched their 2021 performances in the simulator but it cannot be said for certain

[floral bramble]

I believe this is a part of the 2022 car

The bigger model

It's also rumored that red bull already matched its 2021 car performance but failed crash test

Adrian newey momento

[nocturne dock]

yea they did fail crash tests lol

[languid fractal]

😭 😭 I did say I don't know how unreliable it was, someone sent it here

[river sluice]

Oh wow

[short ether]

So basically what are all the parts called that are missing. Just the ones you can remember would be good enough. Barge board is probably a broad term

[spiral gyro]

I’m not an expert but I think the aero devices in the barge board area are winglets. If someone knows what each part is called I’d love to know

[short ether]

Winglets. I thought that was the front wing 🙈

[nocturne dock]

winglets are smol pieces of carbon fiber that direct air to somewhere

[prisma cloak]

is that from hungary

[silent heron]

yes

[short ether]

Yup

[short ether]

So they could be anywhere

[nocturne dock]

probably

2008 cars had a ton

[fallen tulip]

over the past few years there have been a few areas of the car with more freedom to develop such as the bargeboards where you'd expect team to place many, you can't put them anywhere but you can put them many places

[feral vessel]

Almost The Entire Bargeboard is missing there, Parts such as the Boomerang and Diverters are missing, the Turning Vane is also missing, and generally vortice generators.

[civic fern]

so effectively hes driving half a red bull and its still faster than a Haas

[languid fractal]

I saw they said Ferrari using a triangular airbox will disrupt less air to the rear wing.(correct me if I'm wrong)

What sort of gains does this bring?

[feral vessel]

Indeed

[feral vessel]

That and along ensuring less drag overall I presume

[nocturne dock]

he had less downforce than mick

[deft burrow]

Adrian Newey isn’t chief designer anymore?

[floral bramble]

He is

[deft burrow]

Im pretty sure Redbulls chief designer now is Rob Marshall

[floral bramble]

Wait what

Pretty sure Adrian's still chief designer

[deft burrow]

as far as I am aware, Newey has been more of the “boss” of the technical departments, and managing them, while other people do majority of the work.

https://www.redbullracing.com/int-en/drivers/rob-marshall yeah no, Rob is chief designer.

Despite the success, Rob was keen to take on a new challenge and it quickly materialised in the shape of Red Bull Racing, where he took on the role of Chief Designer.

The result was an even greater wave of success with the team winning eight world titles between 2010 and 2013.

The introduction of hybrid engines to F1 led to a leaner spell, but with Rob at the helm of the Team’s engineering department the podiums and victories have continued to flow.

yes

So Rob Marshall is the 🐐

[round stone]

mclaren front end lacks downforce. like a lot

[floral bramble]

Ah ic

Thkx

[tall wyvern]

I don’t agree, newey is chief technical officer (like James Allison) and Marshall is chief engineering officer. It’s still Newey’s oversight and they’re still his cars.

[deft burrow]

He does still have influence, but formally in Redbull, Rob Marshall is the chief designer.

Just like John Owen is the chief designer of the Mercedes F1 cars.

[tall wyvern]

No, he was promoted from that role in 2016, to chief engineering officer. Newey’s role as CTO is above that. Allison and newey are for sure the people with the most sway car wise at the teams.

[spring sparrow]

all technical chiefs and managers report to the CTO

if we really talk about design and R&D its a whole hundreds of engineers who are behind the car, not just one or two people

[limber rock]

honda supplying engines till 2025?

saw it on an instagram post

[short ether]

yes

[limber rock]

demnn

[civic fern]

So Honda is not leaving, just rebranded

Nice engine freeze

If reliability upgrades are still allowed, we should see hard focus on power and then reliability gets sorted down the line

[civic fern]

That sound more like Ross Brawn style

Technical “manager” rather than designer

Which doesn’t sound like Newey at all

Neither does such a major change in design philosophy during such a crucial regulation change

Basically the difference is Brawn puts the best people for each department and manages the work, Newey is the guy drawing parts with pencil and paper even in an era of CAD

For him to suddenly become a Brawn just sounds weird

[feral vessel]

2022 suspension changes compared to 2021 (Pictures taken from @scarbstech IG)

Also does that mean they’re heading to a Coil-Over-Damper ?

[plush panther]

Hmmm very interesting

[jolly tangle]

Maybe

[tall wyvern]

For which part?

[snow wigeon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5xmMCpLsZc

[edgy anchor]

Damn how many videos does there have to be explaining the 2022 regs?

[floral bramble]

Autosports has made a video on this so many times

[grave fiber]

car go vroom

simple-r
ground effect

[sudden scroll]

Enough to fill the time until the second race ig

[feral vessel]

I think they have the famous misconception that a certain user does not like

[edgy anchor]

Eh?

[feral vessel]

“Ground effect is finally coming back”

[nocturne dock]

the s u c s u c to make mega downforce is back

[grave fiber]

i have mastered the arts

[short ether]

okay remember wing angle? now we will have the floor angle (joking obviously)

[nocturne dock]

lol

[edgy anchor]

Who doesn't like Ground Effect?

[nocturne dock]

fia in 1983

[sudden scroll]

so ground effect was removed that year?

[nocturne dock]

yes

and only returned now

[tall wyvern]

Yeah between 1983 and 2022 the cars were on huge stilts towering above the track to eliminate any ground effects

[nocturne dock]

no they just got rid of skirts lol

[sudden scroll]

they got rid of venturi tunnels most importantly

this is what's coming back this season

not ground effects

[tall wyvern]

My point is ground effects have remained massively important the whole time

[sudden scroll]

#f1-technical message hence this message

it never left

[tall wyvern]

Exactly my point

[sudden scroll]

maybe in 4 months it will be understood by people

[feral vessel]

Yes, because Ground Effect is a set of a physical phenomenon and not a geometric shape.

[nocturne dock]

groud

[bitter quest]

groud efect

[stone halo]

@ionic glade Hello mate can you outline how useful DRS will be after these new regulations

[fair dust]

@ionic glade could you explain the 2011 Red Bull flexi-wings?

[rich gust]

shockingly nobody here talking about the technicalities of the haas

[spiral gyro]

Ain’t the actual car so 🤷‍♂️

[rich gust]

how is DRS gonna work, just wondering

its probably at least 70% of what will show up at Barcelona testing

[blazing saffron]

there are notable differences from the model F1 showed last summer, so it's probably more or less the real deal

"more or less" being that there might be some things on the car that we won't see until testing

[rich gust]

shockingly Haas opting not to use the "shark gills" on the engine cover

[short ether]

do we think the push rod is real

[rich gust]

nvm thought you said pull rod

Is there anything in the rules that state how DRS is supposed to work?

[stark adder]

don't think so, but i haven't taken a close look

[rich gust]

I had a theory that its the lower element that moves now

but doesnt seem that likely

[stark adder]

that would make sense

[rich gust]

livery made me think the nose looked like this

when it actually looks like this

[short ether]

an interesting post suggesting that the wide sidepods could mean a more classical positioning of the radiators

[rich gust]

the post on f1 technical yea?

[short ether]

ya

i was looking for the link button and the nforgot

https://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1027995#p1027995

[languid fractal]

The airbox must be the actual one right.

Since its reported that's what Ferrari gonna do

[edgy anchor]

You can see where the upper element goes flat there's two lil nubs on either side, which I assume are the hinge points

I find it interesting how they've slightly eased that rear wing section inwards in order to create what little endplate they can

[rich gust]

not too sure

this is the top view

ok its confirmed

https://twitter.com/tgruener/status/1489581239212417024?s=21

Tobi Grüner 🏁 (@tgruener)

Guenther Steiner confirmed the VF-22 rendering reflects an earlier development stage and doesn't feature the latest upgrades. But it's certainly not just a repainted F1 show car. Shakedown scheduled for Feb 21 (filming day Barcelona).

AMuS (in German): https://t.co/jL0aSeAJd6

Twitter · Feb 4, 2022, 12:46 PM

Early dev stage of the car

so it'll mostly be the same

[short ether]

ye that doenst surprise me too much

was very confused when scarbs said it was based on the showcar

also, the drs actuator isnt present in the renders so cant really tell

[rich gust]

probably pulling something out of his arse

his thought process was probably that they added bits of the real car to the show car

[short ether]

@rich gust ```The front suspension on this release is pushrod, which appears to be a departure from what technical partner Ferrari is doing with its expected pullrod design. The lower wishbone is mounted very high at around the front-wheel centre.

It looks like the pushrod goes directly to the outer end of the wishbone, meaning that the pushrod angle to horizontal is very low. If this is for real it puts very high loads into all of the suspension components.

I’ll be interested to see whether this really is the front suspension configuration on the car when it comes to testing. If you look at where the pushrod meets the chassis, it doesn’t seem to enter the chassis, it seems to be just leaning against it. So it’s possible Haas might not want to give away the real Ferrari design in this area until Ferrari releases it. Let’s wait and see.```

https://the-race.com/formula-1/gary-anderson-what-haas-images-tell-us-about-2022-f1-cars/

basically confirming what I suspected earlier

[rich gust]

Meanwhile at Ferrari:
"Wait you expected us to use a pullrod suspension?"

/s

[left rune]

The rear is so much thinner

[jolly tangle]

The nose also looks to be more squarish, compared to the show car

Very bulky mid section

[nocturne dock]

this is still not the final car

in bahrain its gonna be massively different

[rich gust]

its nearly the final car

[nocturne dock]

yea

[short ether]

Difference between Super Formula and F1/F2/F3?

How fast is Super Formula compared to F1 for example

[nocturne dock]

alot slower

[edgy anchor]

Super Formula is about the fastest we get at the moment

Below F1

[deft burrow]

On the Haas? Most likely not. I think that most of the teams will go for pull rod, especially since its a lot more viable now.

[paper wing]

Congrats @deft burrow, you're now on lap 30

[short ether]

i think its a bit weird if they dont go by ferrari's philosophy

i meant the time to use weird experiments is pre-historic. williams did that sorta stuff, sauber did that stuff back in the day, wacky wings, or diffusers, or floors, rarely worked

[civic fern]

i don't think its really a weird experiment

i think every team that comes up with stuff like that after a regs change genuinely thinks it did its best within the regs

so its not like they know what everyone else is doing, and then be like hey lets do something totally weird and different on purpose

if a team comes out with push rod and everyone else on the grid is using pull rod, either they're total geniuses that interpreted the rules much better than everyone else (Brawn GP) or did something horribly wrong and built a shitbox (FIAT)

[short swift]

yea but the chances of it being a Brawn are much much smaller than it being a FIAT

[civic fern]

well thats my point. they don't know if their design is the next BGP 001, a RS18/VF18/VJM11/C37, or MP4-30 until the first race

so they're not trying to do weird little experiments in that sense

more like they just "end up" with it because everyone else did something different

[deft burrow]

How would they go by Ferrari's philosophy? They may share a hub at the Ferrari factory, but you aren't allowed to cross-share information between the teams

We saw how that went

14 years ago

[short ether]

Hehe
Just meant the suspension

I'm talking about the Ferrari employees dressed in Haas t-shirts

xD

[deft burrow]

I like to think they're on loan to Haas, but formally they are Haas employees now

however, not going pull rod would be a bit dumb, even for Haas if the push rod on the car reveal is final product

Structurally speaking, it's more efficient, because of the 18" tyres and the chassis being lowered on the rear

There's a lot more detail, specifically about the rear thanks to the new venturi tunnels, and the upper anti-intrusion not being able to be lowered like in the past

[rich gust]

From the McLaren model leak

I guess that’s a DRS actuator on the rear wing?

[slender wagon]

probably just something to hold the wing in place for the lego model only. we'll know very soon what their wing is going to look like.

..if we're talking about the same part that is.

[jolly tangle]

Yeah I don’t think the a Lego set is very representative of the technicalities of their actual 2022 contender

At most, they probably just got the livery leaked

But that’s all

I doubt McLaren’s giving Lego confidential design and technical details about the MCL36 before the season has even started

[zinc smelt]

True

But as you said we will see in a few days

[rotund kelp]

@ionic glade here, buddy

now you can't say you didnt know

[short ether]

well why do u think haas car isnt legit

and which haas are u referring to mate

[deft burrow]

It is a lego car after all, which makes me believe there isn't actually any technical details on the lego set, aside from a rough draft "yeah this is the lego version of our car" It's very rare you see lego sets go into great detail, when it is a commercial product

[opaque mulch]

If Ferrari decides to use their upgrade "token" in their power unit, does haas receive the same upgrade for free??

[deft burrow]

All customer teams have to run the same spec engine as their supplier, and you can thank Ferrari for that rule, funnily enough.

[nocturne dock]

haas in 2018 used a 2017 ferrari engine

[deft burrow]

That being said, there can be power differences, because Ferrari may run the PU's in their car more aggressively than their customer teams, with the downside of reliability

[jolly tangle]

Exactly, so idk why people are losing their minds over it. At most, they got their livery “leaked”—which, let’s be honestly, we all knew was going to be papaya

[short ether]

well theyll charge them some money. but it has to be the same spec unless they have an engine deficiency.

i mean unless they only have 2 engines

depends upon their contracts

[slender wagon]

And still in lego and 240p quality

[deft burrow]

If it isn't papaya, then well done to McLaren successfully hiding their actual livery by throwing people off with a leaked lego set picture lol

[jolly tangle]

Yeah

[slender wagon]

what do you think it would it be if not papaya?

[nocturne dock]

gulfn't

[slender wagon]

Their brand doesn't reflect it so I don't think so.

They've but a grey in it

[jolly tangle]

But I am intrigued though. Their team t-shirts have started including a greater amount of grey

[slender wagon]

Yeah.

[deft burrow]

I won't rule out the possibility of a Gulf livery, but I don't know, maybe a darker grey and blue

[slender wagon]

If not papaya, it would probably be like the black merc but in grey and with the mclaren blue flairs I guess?

we'll know soon. we'll know. 😂

Maybe also white in there perhaps.

[jolly tangle]

Just three days more

[deft burrow]

speaking of mercedes, I'm gonna flip my shit if its another AMG AMG AMG AMG AMG AMG ™

[slender wagon]

.carlaunch

[viscid jasper]

lol

[slender wagon]

don't worry, the bot ping me in the channel lol

Was convenient to just tap and get there lmao.

[short ether]

wow nice work mods. or staff or admin. yall the same to me

[slender wagon]

Rbr in 2 days :D

Super excited to see what we've come up with. Even though we all know what it's gonna be. 😂

[short ether]

well red bull is the most secretive about the aero bits

so i probably expect something like haas

[deft burrow]

I'm fully expecting Redbull to not give anything away, even if its an early rendition of the car

[short ether]

i loved the haas launch. i mean it just shows that they didnt give a toss. at least get the drivers to sit on the tyres lol!

[slender wagon]

perhaps all teams are going to be secretive until testing comes. all cars are very much what each team thinks is best. Someone may have does some horsewank shit and some may have some legendary stuff.

[short ether]

red bull launch will have the drivers close by imo

standing behind the diffuser

i say

[jolly tangle]

It was a render, doubt they could’ve gotten anyone to sit on the tire mate

[short ether]

well they should be yeah. i mean it will be weird if they all say
LOOK AT ME!

[deft burrow]

Let's be real, it's Haas. They are only on an alleged 120m budget this year, and their filming budgets have always been super low, so renders are usually what to expect

[short ether]

lol was it? i didnt even look at the pictures properly

[short ether]

well they probably stole wifi from their neighbours yeah.

[slender wagon]

it will definitely be a much more "alpha" stage version of the car, just like the haas.

[short ether]

save money on bandwidth

[jolly tangle]

The graphic designer behind it is actually in this server

[short ether]

poor guy

haas abuse lol

[deft burrow]

He also has a thread on twitter, about how the Haas's current livery was always gonna be identical to what he did regardless of the designer

As much of a copy paste it looks, extremely difficult to make, especially with all the demands

[short ether]

oh yeah it looks the same, but getting to do it, is a different path

[crimson granite]

https://youtu.be/P6mgqQtvFeM

[slender wagon]

Oh shoot it's by Kyle!

[weary thicket]

It’s the Russia mobile 2.0

[civic fern]

The idea wasn’t bad

I think it could’ve been done better tho

Like with just a different color and background

[deft burrow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fy4mTq01w0E I was watching Sainz Q&A and at 9:49 he mentions the tiny amount of travel there is in the brake pedal, I am genuinely curious, considering how stiff the pedals are, how the drivers can be so precise with their brake modulation

[civic fern]

Trail braking enough times and eventually you just pick up the tiniest things?

[slim imp]

.carlaunch

[tall wyvern]

Consider it as measuring force applied by the foot to the pedal rather than the travel of the pedal

[pine forge]

#botspam

[primal patrol]

im guessing the inertia while braking also helps them a lot while pressing the brake pedal

[spiral gyro]

does kinda

[nocturne dock]

they do use the gforce on their bodies to brake even harder

[plush panther]

Yep

[rich gust]

like how is DRS gonna work??

2nd team to show one without the old DRS actuator

[silent heron]

It’s a slightly evolved spec car

It’s not the final one

They said it’s going to evolve before it goes on track and during the season very quickly

Looks like they are also using a push rod too

[rich gust]

https://www.topgear.com/sites/default/files/2022/01/1 F1 2022.jpeg

https://preview.redd.it/v2z77l641ug81.jpg?width=1764&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f0f857994a164815f7e0d07c2d3401da0646186f

yeah its literally the car above except the front wing

fuck sake

its 100% a showcar

[nocturne dock]

yea lmao

[sudden scroll]

Yes it happens a lot, the event being just for liveries

[plush panther]

So nothing for redbull

[stone herald]

Yeah these reveals are pretty much to show the livery

We will have to wait until Bahrain testing to see the new cars

[steel marsh]

I have heard that the first race isn't allowed to be streamed, right?

[fallen tulip]

nah, the first test in catalunya isn't streamed, the second test in bahrain and all races will be streamed live as usual

[steel marsh]

ahh yes i meant test xD what nonsense would that be if they didnt stream the first race

[sudden scroll]

liveries is more than just the paint, it's also the sponsors

[plush panther]

Yeah

Just making a joke

I spend too much time in #deqeneral-🤪 so i forget this chat is serious

[delicate kayak]

Do the teams on the right to have spoiler on the halo? like this :

[plush panther]

“On the right”
What?

[nocturne dock]

the winglet on the halo

pretty much everyone had it in 2018

some teams still do now like merc

[spiral gyro]

Ig he meant “have the right”

[edgy anchor]

https://d3cm515ijfiu6w.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/09173156/f1-2022-car-rear-view-planetf1.jpg

Can someone explain to me what's so hard to understand about the DRS useage?

The farthest out bit where it still flat is where a hinge line will be

Just get the actuator in the centre

[silent heron]

that's what they don't understand. That the hinge line is not there yet so they think the cars don't have drs

[edgy anchor]

O

[deft burrow]

The haas car showed the DRS hinge line

[half blaze]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJhFI38mGq0

Just recently realized that 2019 merc is actually faster than 2020 merc over a single lap in Catalunya

[spiral gyro]

This image should clear-up how drs will work in the new cars

[plush panther]

Interesting

Pulling up seems stressful

[spiral gyro]

Not really pretty much the same mechanism which was used in the previous years

[spice eagle]

whoever drew on the image is a genius. now we know what haas was hiding

[spiral gyro]

Our boy Craig

[cursive wraith]

Goat Bottas 2019 lap was just

[half blaze]

That last sector is blazin fast

[spice eagle]

idk how they did that chicane so well

it's like textbook driving

[half blaze]

really hard to nail those last chicanes

[short ether]

As expected Mercedes will use the same model that RB used for the livery presentation

[rich gust]

The scenes if Every team except Haas pull up with a car that looks exactly the same

[short ether]

that would make them look like a bunch of wankers

[spice eagle]

basically theyre just using fia's car with slight modifications and saying it's the new car

just livery to be revealed

[short ether]

yea that’s what they’re are doing except Haas it looks like

[feral vessel]

https://twitter.com/scarbstech/status/1491778193199706113?s=21

Craig Scarborough (@ScarbsTech)

Snap analysis #F1 #AMR22

Likes

312

Twitter · Feb 10, 2022, 2:16 PM

[rich gust]

Again pushrod

What if the teams found out that pushrod is the way to go

[feral vessel]

https://twitter.com/scarbstech/status/1491778788274888707?s=21 interestingly

Craig Scarborough (@ScarbsTech)

Only 1 pushrod... ?

Likes

155

Twitter · Feb 10, 2022, 2:19 PM

[nocturne dock]

yes

[edgy anchor]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/914818911621509191/941339245539373066/IYLPFdp.png

No more DRS confuse

[nocturne dock]

yes

finally

[spice eagle]

damn drs finally revealed

[spice eagle]

this was right all along

[rich gust]

Inb4 Haas and Red Bull be like:
"Wait we were supposed to use DRS?"

[spice eagle]

[feral vessel]

https://twitter.com/scarbstech/status/1491783175441301504?s=21

Craig Scarborough (@ScarbsTech)

Double pushrod in the flesh

Likes

746

Twitter · Feb 10, 2022, 2:36 PM

[languid fractal]

I wanted to ask something about the rear wing

Will wing configurations affect the downforre of the cars

[whole linden]

like... ofc?

[languid fractal]

Huh?

[edgy anchor]

The rear wing is probably the most influencing component on the car for downforce levels

[languid fractal]

Wasn't it said that it's impact will decrease?

[edgy anchor]

Downforce isn't necessarily tied to Dirty Air

[languid fractal]

Oh alright then

Well i didn't I think it was, I just thought they said the rear wing aint gonna contribute as much to the downforce of the car

[edgy anchor]

Well no, not as much, but the adjustability of it makes it the most influencial element

Because things like the floor are just static

[languid fractal]

Alright thanks for the explanation

[plush panther]

Thank god finally

[plush panther]

Yes lmfao

[deft burrow]

https://twitter.com/ScarbsTech/status/1491785048533598208 looks like theres a reason for the gap

Craig Scarborough (@ScarbsTech)

@devscover @celkiboi

Twitter · Feb 10, 2022, 2:44 PM

[civic fern]

The 2020 car was faster for most of the lap, Bottas just got an exceptional S3

Especially the final acceleration zone out of the chicane

But yeah the 2020 car was equal in S1 and faster in S2

[deft burrow]

I know everyone thinks that Redbull only gave us a livery reveal because they want to keep their cards close with the new regulations

however

did ever come to anyones attention that Redbull may be behind schedule, and didn't have enough time to get an early iteration of their car ready for the "launch"

I know there's obviously a choice of delaying the launch, but I'd imagine that sponsors have deadline for when they want this stuff to be shown

[sudden scroll]

maybe, may, might.

we don't know

this isn't serious, nor in-depth

[rich gust]

I need to know what these winglets were called

And why were they banned post 2008

...

I need real answers

After all this is the technical channel

[prisma cloak]

im just joking

[sudden scroll]

well this isn't the place for that

[prisma cloak]

okay sorry

[sudden scroll]

i think they really are just called winglets

not all aero elements have a proper name

Final adjustments were made to the FW30's rear aerodynamics prior to the Brazilian Grand Prix. Here, the small winglets in front of the rear wheels were augmented by the addition of a small flap beneath their main elements, in order to better deflect airflow around the wheels and reduce the aerodynamic disruption caused by the wheels' rotation
granted it's Wikipedia, so not the best source in the world

[wary fable]

there seem to be concerns raised about the viability of the aston martin route of longer sidepods - https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-tecnica-aston-martin-amr22-alla-ricerca-del-doppio-fondo/8052541/

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-monoposto-2022-aspettiamoci-due-filosofie-costruttive/7831710/?nrt=54

which design do you guys think will win out long term?

[deft burrow]

I mean

Aston Martin probably went with that because of packaging

[wary fable]

it has to be aero related right? theres no way the merc pu forces a back end that is that thick

[deft burrow]

I am thinking it's cooling related

Like laying the radiators flat across the area the shark fins cover

So I think fully that it is only built like that, because of the way they decided to lay out their radiators