f1-technical

[vital forge]

whats this on Charles chest?

[radiant basin]

could be any number of things

[short ether]

I assume it's a water cooling thingy

His necc tho

[radiant basin]

Drivers have some thick ass necks

all those g-forces

[rare geyser]

Anyone knows what the MPG of an F1 engine is? Like putting the engine in an aerodynamic road car and driving at 70 MPH like the EPA tests the highway consumption. For example I think a Toyota Prius would need 20 HP (14.914 kW) to travel at 70 MPH. So I just did some calculations like 53 kg of fuel is need to do 100 km at Monza by a 2010 F1 car which doesn't have KERS and I assumed that car had 750 and just divided that power to 35 to have 1.413 kg of fuel needed to do 100 km. So roughly 2 liters (or 0.44 UK gallons) of petrol is needed to do 100 km at @70 MPH or 112.6 kmh. Monza is 84% full throttle so I'll just guesstimate that the cars use 8% more fuel than what I calculated above.

Also some more calculations (roughly multiplying the kg of petrol by 3; so 3kg of co2 from 1 kg of fuel and 2kg of oxygen) F1 car may have roughly 66 g/km emissions which is like 70% percent of Prius.

A human produces 1kg of CO2 per day btw.

[rare geyser]

Everyone says Hydrogen is expensive but "As of 2020 green hydrogen costs between $2.50-6.80 per kilogram"
Hydrogen has way almost 3 times the energy density of petrol. Even if we go with 6.80$ you get the same amount of energy for %37.3 of the price of petrol in the UK.

Though the cheapness may come from the low demand for Hydrogen but it's been projected to be as cheap as petrol in 10 years. Also I think the price of electricity will go massively up if 50% of all cars were electric. Renewable electricity is expensive and since wind and sun doesn't always come you also need batteries to store that electricity which is what is being suggested to do with the dead EV batteries as currently the recycle rate of EV batteries is 5%. But recycled EV batteries isn't enough to supply the electricity demand.

[fringe sun]

uh can someone explain me how did max's brakes caught fire?

and is it a good or a bad thing?

was it similar to the restart we saw with lewis in Baku

[steep prism]

@rare geyser Thank you

If I had a say in the matter I'd be pushing for Hydrogen power

[crimson granite]

Just high temperatures

[short ether]

It's obviously not linear, you can't just divide by 35

[zenith pumice]

I don’t think the price of electricity would go up for the simple reason of more people will need it.

If there’s more electricity that companies can sell, they’ll charge less for it so they can sell more for a lower price and still make a profit:

If someone sells something to a singular person, they manufacture it for €10, and they’ll sell it for maybe 20€. Let’s say the sell at that price to 25 people. That’s a profit of 250€.

But if they sell it at 15€ with the same manufacturing cost, but sell to more people, let’s say 75 people (and more people will buy it because it’s cheaper), they make a profit of 375€

So there’s more demand for it, so the prices might go down. Of course it can be the opposite too, but I don’t think that that’ll be likely

Of course they will have to sell it to more people if they reduce the price of it, but assuming electric cars are the norm at that point, that will happen

[short ether]

6

Well nowadays it's around 6mpg UK, it was estimated around 2.5-3 for V10 era

If they used all 110kg over the race average of 305km, it'd be equal to 5.86mpg UK/4.88mpg US

100? 6.44/5.37... So like 6mpg UK/5mpg US average

[regal gale]

ok so like no cap and no hate but i dont get the penalty thing so lando gets 3 penalty points cuz he didnt enter da pit lane when the race wuz red flagged but when hamilton accidentally crashes into verstappen its only 2 points i aint biased i just need answers man

[short ether]

have you read the sporting regs before posting this?

[granite tundra]

gotta love starting a message in f1-technical with 'no cap'

[short ether]

So this is bait

[granite tundra]

bait or just exceptional stupidity

[short ether]

not worthy of an answer regardless

[green marlin]

I'll be kind and answer him

[green marlin]

It's cause a red flag means get the h''' off the track

[regal gale]

heh but izz like lando didnt do unsafe stuff man

[short ether]

Dura lex, sed lex

[cursive wraith]

Durex

[granite tundra]

REEEEEE

No bullshit in my technical channel

[granite tundra]

No

[fringe sun]

does Mercedes still use the DAS system?

[short ether]

No

[short ether]

I really meant what it means in latin

[wintry pollen]

51G means 51*9.8 m/s^2 of deceleration right? So if Max is 70kg, then the force he experienced should be 34986 N

need confirmation

[grand silo]

He’s more than 70kg

[wintry pollen]

But the calculation is correct?

[short ether]

pp p00

The driver ballast is 80kg

34,986newtons is equal to 3,567kg... Oof

How've you got that number?

[crimson granite]

51x9.8x70

[cursive shoal]

that's sounds really really painful

[short ether]

@granite tundra I saw you posted a thing about recent accidents and G forces

Wanna repost it here to put things in perspective?

[supple dragon]

Ice vest

[graceful falcon]

idk if this is like technical or anything but idk where to put it so i’ll leave it here

[short ether]

under 100G is nuffin bruv

[tacit bridge]

how did ericsson reach 28g in italy

[timber jolt]

he went fast and then didn't

[steel lily]

Drs failure https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tVnIMZcK_BA

[tacit bridge]

where was the 28g reached? when he hit the wall or when he was rolling around?

[steel lily]

Likely on the first impact, the rolling has much lower gs

[viscid shoal]

I like this summary

[fierce crag]

Will max be able to use the same engine?

After the crash

[wintry pollen]

lmao

[fierce crag]

It looks horrible bwoken

[wintry pollen]

well depends if its still good or not

but i expect them to change the gearbox at least

[fierce crag]

These are the 2nd set

so just one fresh set left in this season

[wintry pollen]

the gearbox or engine or both?

[fierce crag]

Maybe both

The engine was changed in france

[crimson granite]

Honda said that they might have a chance in salvaging the engine

[proven spade]

Thanks for that😂

[limber sluice]

i think kimi in 2014 was 47G

damn huh

[timber jolt]

I'm a certified expert, my services are always free.

[proven spade]

lmaooo

@timber jolt i'll be sure to hit you up whenever i need a technical explanation

[upper ivy]

Yeah, Massa and Perez in Canada were pretty big as well that year but understandably that chart only starts in 2015

[limber sluice]

Yup yup

[tawdry geyser]

More like 8 times the distance a Ferrari lasted during 2020

[cursive wraith]

Russell?

[short ether]

Even if one component is damaged, he’ll likely have to take a penalty. for every part to be undamaged is a big ask tbf

[limber sluice]

Well depends.... They may just use the old unit

Save milage on new one

In practice

But hey spa and Monza soon. they'll need all the power they can get

[blissful shuttle]

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/honda-verstappens-f1-engine-could-be-saved-after-british-gp-crash/6633633/

“Honda F1 technical director Toyoharu Tanabe said he had feared the worst for the power unit when images of Verstappen's wrecked car were shown.

However, he says the initial post-race analysis has offered some optimism about the situation – although a full inspection will be needed in Japan to be totally sure.”

We’ll just have to wait and see lol

[limber sluice]

lol reading the quotes i thought toyoharu tanabe said that " we'll have to wait and see lol"

haha

[mystic scroll]

it is just me that wonders how the drivers don't pass out when the impact occurs in the crash like max at Silverstone. People pass out at 10G's how come max on the weekend was awake and talking after the crash. Obviously the cars are designed to crumple to reduce the impact and so is the barrier but is that all that reduces the impact and how come the drivers don't pass out?

[zenith pumice]

It's because the amount of time they experience the G forces of a crash is actually quite small

They're not experiencing 51G for the entirety of the crash duration, just for the split second that they hit the wall, after which the G forces goes down pretty quickly to 1

[mystic scroll]

Ahh okay

[short ether]

A shock force does big damage but your blood supply isn't sustained away from vital organs for consciousness

[green marlin]

Yeah, what they above said.

[granite tundra]

Another thing to consider is that you're talking about people passing out through a sustained vertical g force

Which is the worst direction to be accelerated in

Lateral or forward deceleration tolerances are much, much higher

[zenith pumice]

Because when this happens your brain won’t get enough blood and it’ll all go down towards your legs, causing you to faint

[cursive wraith]

Well sustaining g force for a huge amount of time is completely different to just getting a gist of it

[short ether]

Bro the amount of answers

[short ether]

G

[upper ivy]

Related story https://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=93412

And this is "only" 5-6G; but through an entire oval corner lap after lap

[steel lily]

it was because of the high banking angle giving both vertical and horizontal g forces

[short ether]

You had about 5.3 lateral and 3.2 vertical so... Like

[green marlin]

Wait

How did I not pass out when I rode in a F1 2 seater (boat) when I was like 12 years old? In that boat during the turns we experienced 5G's though it was only during the turn.

I found this vid and thinking of it, it may be the same phenomena as we were talking about above.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7cdZCGKdv8

(I'm not any of those in the video*)

[granite tundra]

5Gs lateral wouldn't make you pass out

unless you're repeatedly doing it to the point of exhaustion

g-LOC is demonstrated under sustained vertical acceleration

[green marlin]

Aha

Well, I only rode with her for like 2 minutes

Maybe 5-6 turns within those 2 minutes

No actually I got a few turns more cause I know her. lol

[short ether]

The only thing you'd experience with the turns is lateral

Aka side to side

[rare geyser]

Does the rounded edge rear wing give lover drag (maybe less vorticies) and did the 2009 regulations really help with the wake because it seems the overtaking didn't improve much. The 2008 cars had the small wings on the bodywork, very far away from the tail of the car, and all those wings directed the air to the rear wing which could mean that it can very much take the dirty air from the leading car and sort it out for the rear wing.

[short ether]

One thing I hate about 2009 is those front wings, not just because they look sucky and throw off the visual presence of the car, but they introduced Outwash which fun fact: makes your wake larger

Because instead of dealing with the dirty air yourself, you offload it out past the front tyres and idk maybe the next car can deal with it

The entire point of the lack of endplates is to reduce sealing vortices

Oop

[rare geyser]

Yeah, I guess it'd work that way with the vorticies. The gen 3 FE car has rounded wing both front and rear. Well drag is very critical in electric cars. I think this concept looks great and has open front wheels at least but the concept is rejected.

[short ether]

That only looks good from that angle

[rare geyser]

https://f1tcdn.net/images/features/2021/article3length.png

Formula 1 Body shape rules word count

[short ether]

Yeah it's pretty beefy

The regs are just getting more and more dense

[short ether]

It may sound crazy

But they should give some kind of chassis with all the requirements needed

And leave the team design what ever they want but to some extent and still some regulations about it

[steel lily]

basically a complicated indycar setup?

[crimson granite]

omfg

[fierce crag]

Was it real that Honda can’t recover that engine?

[short ether]

They said its possible to salvage it

[pallid pewter]

Dunno what you can recover from that

[cedar plume]

you can't

[granite tundra]

The tunnels are part of the floor of the car

Which is fixed in relation to the tub

Any ride height changed would also affect the tunnels

[unborn swallow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlNmWJLyylM

[granite tundra]

..its the vanes which are part of the rear suspension assembly, not the tunnels

They are two entirely different parts

The tunnel structure is mounted to the car, the vanes to help seal the diffuser are part of the rear brake ducts

[short ether]

The front and rear wheelhubs both have sealing/floor devices

[mighty furnace]

Seeing all this talk around Verstappen's crash costing Red Bull $1.8 Million in damage and all the issues that are coming with that re; cost caps.

Does anyone else think that the Cost Cap rules may need to be adjusted a bit to accomodate for damages? Coz I was under the impression that cost caps were more in place to level the playing field in terms of R&D

[tawdry geyser]

i dont think it will be that much of an issue

its a setback but they'll get around it

[mighty furnace]

Yeah leading teams like Red Bull, although salty about it, can get around it reasonably easily. I'm more thinking about in in relation to the whole field since there are other teams who would suffer greatly if it had been their car

Like the Drain cover thing that happened in Baku a few years ago to Williams

If that had happened this year with cost caps that would've hurt their efforts to get back within reach of the midfield significantly (obviously I say that with the assumption that it ends up causing a significantly larger incident)

Essentially the question I'm asking is:
Should the Cost of incidents caused by external factors that are beyond a team or driver's control be written off by the FIA?

[abstract pawn]

But how do you judge something to be “beyond a team or drivers control”?

[mighty furnace]

Well like the drain cover incident and Baku, track defects would be one, relatively clear cut one

In terms of incidents during the race like the Verstappen, Hamilton accident. The decision of the stewards could influence that judgment

[short ether]

https://youtu.be/0DXrSX_IEeo

Can't help but agree

[rare geyser]

Pirelli is owned by the Chinese.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2334686-formula-1-embarrasses-itself-with-honda-engine-freeze-farce

2014 engine freeze was a very bad idea, just when a radical change occurs in powerplant, FIA decided to freeze engines. FIA did many things to make the sport more predictable.

[upper ivy]

when was there an engine freeze in 2014

I knew they had this token system to limit development but that was abandoned after like 2 years and the manufacturers were allowed to freely develop the PUs after that

[snow anchor]

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.tech-tuesday-the-red-bull-design-details-that-will-have-mercedes-worried.4b7oodqsK2AsDf9fi0eUUG.html

[mighty furnace]

https://youtu.be/t0-wXT12wgw

[short ether]

Oh no, it's Driver61 to give us uncanny valley levels of slight inaccuracies to annoy me greatly

do not let @granite tundra see this.

Reb

[cursive wraith]

[near palm]

hahah

[feral vessel]

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/f1-commits-to-reintroducing-ground-effect-aero-concept-with-21-rules-4991129/4991129/ along with this

[short ether]

The better Giorgio Piola sketch

[soft shadow]

Seeing normal front and rear wings with endplates on the 2022 car looks so weird...

[topaz kraken]

Anyone got any news on mick?

[short ether]

His car will get fixed up

Likely he may Start in the Pit Lane

[short ether]

What happened to him?

https://tenor.com/view/perrito-dog-e-sp-quieres-gif-14001252

Have some of the based Hybrid

[amber elk]

im late

but ty

[short ether]

Both serve the same function, to be an alternator/starter combo

One's for the engine, which can self-propel, which is EZ
One's for the Turbo, which can't, and sucks

[rich gust]

Would AM be able to activate the fuel pump without running the engine

And maybe it drains into the tank

[short ether]

What?

[spiral gyro]

[rich gust]

Just saying

[spiral gyro]

its possible but a waste

your're adding weight for the extra fuel etc just pointless

and the fia will check the cars after the race so they will be caught

[short ether]

What MrCelroy is asking is could they use the pumps to get the last bit of fuel from the lines into the tank to complete the sample

But...

They go to a mechanical swash plate injection pump

[spiral gyro]

I see

From the lines I honestly don’t think they will find 0.7l of fuel

To fulfill the needs of the fia

[cedar plume]

You never know

[short ether]

Oh I think they could

[zealous mirage]

A closer look at Max's damaged car

The floor of the car was held together by literal tape

And he still managed to bring it in the points

[marsh bay]

super max

[short ether]

Awh mad, I'd never would've seen it without that circle

call me crazy, but wouldn't it be more beneficial to remove the other half part and have a car whose aero is at least balanced? albeit probably even less efficient

probably too big of a part

[tacit bridge]

it would probably slow him down a lot

[marsh bay]

i agree

[short ether]

well, probably

but i'm not sure, so that's why i'm asking to those who might know

The front wing can't be removed from the nose

So... They'd be disqualified or whatever coz that's impact protection

[stone laurel]

Oh.
So that bargeboard is what dropped from Max's car when he get out of the pit.

[stone laurel]

Tape 👀

[narrow bridge]

fucking legend

[quaint fjord]

i mean he only had to pass two cars

[crimson granite]

Is fuel consumption higher or lower during wet conditions?

[short ether]

I think on average it'd be lower, because you're just not pushing as hard

[zealous mirage]

Much lower, on a full race done on inters, drivers can finish the race and still have as much as 5 laps of fuel left depending on the track

[short ether]

more or less... greater fuel use at any one given time is what gives more torque. If you push too much torque on a wet track you'll slip therefore ... wet track = less fuel

[zealous mirage]

The fact he even managed to overtake two cars in what essentially is half a race car is truly amazing

[balmy patio]

VER vs MSC is just a taste of things to come

[graceful falcon]

damage costs after hungary (sorry idk where to put this)

[violet smelt]

https://twitter.com/Vetteleclerc/status/1422506436840632321?s=20
https://twitter.com/Vetteleclerc/status/1422506792261754880?s=20
https://twitter.com/Vetteleclerc/status/1422508075882360834?s=20

tami. (@Vetteleclerc)

#AMuS Red Bull & Ferrari have another theory about Mercedes's power gain.
Allegedly, Mercedes cools the air collector (plenum) in certain phases in order to have more power available. This would be allowed before a quali lap or the start of the race, but only with archaic methods

Twitter · Aug 3, 2021, 10:35 AM

tami. (@Vetteleclerc)

#AMuS You are allowed to cool down the plenum with dry ice. But the effect evaporates relatively quickly.
Systematically cooling the plenum would be at least a grey area in the regulations or not allowed at all!

#F1

Twitter · Aug 3, 2021, 10:37 AM

tami. (@Vetteleclerc)

#AMuS Suspicion arised in Silverstone, when Hamilton caught up with Verstappen with a significant power advantage every time before the Copse corner. Mercedes explains this by saying that the Honda PU always went into charging mode at that point. They deny the accusations.

Twitter · Aug 3, 2021, 10:42 AM

[granite tundra]

I'm not exactly sure how this would be illegal

As long as you're keeping the plenum temperature above the regulatory minimum, and not breaking article 7.5

So.. As long as you have a dt of 10deg over ambient, and you're not using latent vaporisation of anything excluding fuel.. I can't see how this is a regulatory issue

Not really my wheelhouse though, so if anyone else has other ideas or interpretations

[abstract pawn]

https://twitter.com/enginemode11/status/1422507676647497731?s=21

Engine 11 🧡 #ThankYouMarshals (@EngineMode11)

@Vetteleclerc The benefits would be marginal at best, by the end of the first outlap it would be irrelevant.

Unless someone smarter than me (anyone then) can counter that, I don’t buy it

Twitter · Aug 3, 2021, 10:40 AM

[granite tundra]

Yeah that.. Doesn't make sense

The benefit would potentially come from being able to continously regulate plenum temps

So it would be there

That person has misunderstood the allegation

I just don't see how that would be illegal

[violet smelt]

https://mclaren.recruitee.com/o/engineering-internship-12-months

[short ether]

They can't other than the combustion chamber because F1 engines are Direct Injection only

[indigo merlin]

thhanks for sharing this!

[proven spade]

hey just wondering, where did you get this info from

[vestal quest]

Can I study aerospace engineering and get a job as a mechanic in F1?

[spiral gyro]

Mechanical or automotive engineering will be enough for mechanic or even a race engineer

But with aerospace you can do aerodynamics engineering

[vestal quest]

Yeah I want to lean more towards race engineer

So i guess I can take mechanical engineering then?

[zinc parcel]

Race engineer tend to come from vehicle dynamics roles so as long as you're learning about that I guess

[zinc parcel]

Are internships always posted here?

[normal plank]

I found this

Damage of Bargeboard on Max's car

[civic hedge]

whoa that's a nice representation

[normal plank]

He lost 60% of downforce and still managed to finish in points

[civic hedge]

crazy how the fastest car loses alot of performance with the bargeboard not there

like it so important

[short ether]

Well everything is important

[civic hedge]

yea

[stark ember]

It's amazing how it's truly true that just one thing small thing (or even big in this case) can make such a huge difference

Compared to like Nascar where they can just sledge hammer their car to make it go 200mph again

[civic hedge]

lol once i saw an motor chain used to cut some part near the tail

[stark ember]

Nah, I think that was the front

https://youtu.be/SY73K1a3LDk

First clip shown in the video

[fringe sun]

lmfao wtf
nascar rlly is crazy

also,nascar cars weren't symmetrical right?

they recently changed it?

[civic hedge]

oh yea i saw once using a hammer to break a window

and to put in shape also

oh wait again ot

[stark ember]

No fucking clue
I may live in America but no nothing about Nascar

[fringe sun]

lol

[normal plank]

Lol

[short ether]

That's the beauty, but also I guess the curse of having every piece of bodywork work in tandem with eachother

[short ether]

NASCARs aren't symmetrical when it comes to Ovals but road courses of course are different

[fringe sun]

can smone tell me what do those blinking lights behind the cars mean

[short ether]

The red blinking lights traditionally were just for rain, aka to let the driver behind get an idea on where they are based on the flashing in front when it's too wet to see

This then also became the light to denote if a car has a pit limiter on or not

And also works as a hazard for the car behind when a car starts Harvesting on ERS it could be the other way around as they'll be slower than usual

[granite tundra]

I can't remember if its to denote harvesting, or lack of deployment

I think it's the former

[granite tundra]

It also serves double duty as a warning light for drivers who only have a free practice superlicense

[civic hedge]

lol i thought that the red flashing lights were something related to the battery charging

[steel lily]

it shows up for harvesting

[steel lily]

doesn't it have a different colour for those without super license

[granite tundra]

Yep

There was a discussion about syncing up the light panels to the car lights as well

So lights on the car ahead change to yellow if there's an incident

[civic hedge]

wait then what about green light

flashing

[steel lily]

that seems like something over the top because it shows up on the drivers steering wheel and they are let know by the team

[short ether]

Yeah... And the battery charges by Harvesting

[civic hedge]

oh ok cool

[elder plover]

The current car, yes, that one is asymmetrical for ovals. The Gen. 7 car, on the other hand, that one is symmetrical.

[smoky trout]

Where was this seen ?

[steel lily]

I do not know but it signifies there is a driver without a super license

[crimson granite]

whenever Roy Nissany drives during a fp session you will see this green light at the back of his car

[silver bear]

Why is the Williams wind sensitive?

[short ether]

[steel lily]

I believe it is more suceptable to that problem than most of the cars

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/williams-f1-wind-sensitivity-problem-due-to-downforce-breakthrough-5955097/5955097/

[civic hedge]

I saw it on gasly's car once in this year

[smoky trout]

@crimson granite , so it's not only for drivers without super license ?

[civic hedge]

idk man if I have the same question

[crimson granite]

Correct

[smoky trout]

oh

[charred flame]

what engine does the mercedes and the red bull have?

[crimson granite]

like spec of engine?

[raw nest]

The Mercedes is using the Mercedes-AMG F1 M12 E Perfomance.
The Red Bull is using the Honda RA621H. If that's what you mean

[charred flame]

yea

thanks mate!

[dense kayak]

Hey, just wondering. In the Grid start, when the lights go out, what are those yellow and green lights on the Pit Wall?

And what do they do?

Here’s something I’ve grabbed from a Youtube video

and when i watch races they are green

[tulip isle]

they are basically flags but in digital form

so the yellow means its a yellow flag in the straight

@dense kayak i hope this answers your question

[crimson granite]

yea iirc there were yellow flags there cause charles punted off max

[abstract pawn]

No it was because Vettel had his dog start and was basically stopped on the straight at the start

[crimson granite]

ah yea that

[dense kayak]

ah got it

so if it was green that’d mean that nobody had a bad start?

[tulip isle]

Yeah as in a car didn't stop after the start

[granite tundra]

no it doesn't, they're start warning panels

for the start they fold out- the rear side has the driver number to help them identify the grid spot, and if there are any cars slow/not moving after the lights go out, the panel at the appropriate point goes yellow

to my knowledge they aren't tied to the 'track state'

[tulip isle]

i mean yellow flag means slow down

but fair enough

[granite tundra]

they aren't technically yellows though

they're advisory

[tulip isle]

fair enough

[civic hedge]

the 2022 cars won't have drs system right?

[zenith pumice]

They will

[civic hedge]

but the wing doesn't seem so

and does anyone know any sites where I can read about the engineering of f1 cars?

[zenith pumice]

That’s a prototype model car, not what teams will actually come in with. DRS Still exists

[civic hedge]

oh ok got it

[slate basin]

also if you look at the start, the light on the side goes green when the car is its grid slot

[steel lily]

If racing improves they want to get rid of drs at some point, just not next year

[civic hedge]

cool

[short ether]

Why do people assume DRS can't be done on a curve when the wing elements are always hinged?

[zenith pumice]

The philosophy of DRS operation will still stay lol, it’ll still be on the rear wing and use a similar mechanism

[steel lily]

i guess because in the mock up car the rear wing was a single piece

[short ether]

Here we go

[steel lily]

That was an earlier model

they changed a lot afterward

[short ether]

I know

But it still has that door open

[steel lily]

it looks like a single piece because of the curvature

aswell

[short ether]

Okay this doesn't have it, also its a swan neck

But I presume that's because they're aiming to remove it if the changes come good

[steel lily]

yeah that is what is confusing people

yes

[short ether]

Also... The diffuser extension lower elements

Like dayum

[steel lily]

https://www.thecheckeredflag.co.uk/2018/05/fia-looking-to-remove-drs-from-f1-with-introduction-of-2021-regulations/

im not sure how good a source this is

it is pretty old

[steel lily]

the tunnels are massive

[short ether]

Could be wider tho

[steel lily]

it could be but if it is narrower it can create a bigger bottleneck

[short ether]

That rear camber 😤

[steel lily]

with most of the downforce in the middle

it is a bit exessive

[abstract pawn]

All I have heard is that the 2022 will still have DRS equipped, but they might choose to not use it.

[steel lily]

but also has no engine and other heavy components

[abstract pawn]

And they just want it on the cars just in case they need it, but the plan is to not have to use it.

[short ether]

Pog

[silver bear]

hey thanks

[steel lily]

in 2018 they talked about getting rid of it for 2021 (we know how that turned out) but they might use it on the new cars

[steel lily]

no problem

[short ether]

... So

we know how that turned out they delayed it for a year with the same plan?

Idk what you're getting at there

I do actually think, with the way that the model's been refined, that delaying a year was a blessing in disguise

[steel lily]

im saying that the rules were delayed so they kept it for 2021

[steel lily]

basically they kept drs instead of getting rid of it for 2021

[short ether]

Also this perspective of the car was lovely

[steel lily]

yeah looks great, the paint is a bit odd looking though

[short ether]

Yes they did delay it for 2022 but that was separate from the... Nevermind I won't phrase this right

[short ether]

What?

[tawdry geyser]

nvm wrong reply

[short ether]

Oh

[limber girder]

This Instagram video shows how will the 2022 DRS work.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CRYySQBH28H/?utm_medium=share_sheet

[leaden hare]

How come the f1 channel hasn’t posted it?

[limber girder]

I don't know to be honest really.

I like how a meme channel posted how will the new DRS work

[short ether]

Oh hey look at that, it's the hinge I just talked about

Meanwhile

[reef pine]

The mercedes is so much longer damn

[vestal quest]

bruh wat i just noticed that

[reef pine]

They were always the longer car, but I had never tried to see how much longer they were

[vestal quest]

oh dam

[vestal quest]

bruh wat

what is that thing in the middle that opens and closes it

looks kinda weird lmao

[limber girder]

That's the hinge

[rich gust]

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.ferrari-set-for-power-boost-in-second-half-of-the-season-with-significant.3eJjaVFFUDu66ek9Nx8rYP.html

Uh oh

Where have we heard that before?

[short ether]

t'was the opposite in 2019 in the end, wasn't it

forgot what exactly happened

[crimson granite]

the TD for engines?

USA?

[rich gust]

Still it would be nice if Ferrari went back to 2017-19 race pace

They’ve constantly been in Midfield pace

[violet tundra]

..that thing is ugly

[violet tundra]

THEY ARE GONNA REMOVE DRS?

bruh are they mad

[zenith pumice]

I love it

[violet tundra]

wut

[zenith pumice]

I love the look of the 2022 car

It looks like a rocket ship

[reef pine]

They are not removing DRS

[zenith pumice]

And no, they’re not

[violet tundra]

good to hear

[reef pine]

Read the rest of the conversation

[violet tundra]

ok

[zenith pumice]

Check the date on the article

March 10, 2018

[violet tundra]

they should make this car a safety car

[zenith pumice]

Nobody knew back then what the 21 (now 22) regs would precisely entail

[violet tundra]

2018

[violet tundra]

1 day after my birthday

LOL

what a co incidence

[granite tundra]

.. This is F1 technical

[short ether]

Bro the tunnels, and the wheel skirts

[zenith pumice]

jeez I never realised how massive the 18" are

[short ether]

they are huge

The tyre diameter went up to accommodate

[zenith pumice]

yeah so it looked in a similar scale, but damn this angle is great to see how big they actually are

[short ether]

Tbh it was needed for... The rears anyway imo

It balances out the size of everything else and rake

[soft shadow]

Imagine seeing 2022 cars with 13" tyres...

[dense kayak]

Why are wheels shiny as heck when they are new? What makes em shiny?

[steel lily]

The material they use to help remove them from their molds

[dense kayak]

Ah

They look sexy when they’re nice and shiny, dont know why

[short ether]

I believe it's like a flux to stop it sticking to the mould

[lime prism]

Thicc wheels

[short ether]

Thiccums 😩

[cursive wraith]

[marsh bay]

the spoiler is damn cool

[short ether]

k

[soft shadow]

That's a rear wing...

F1 doesn't use Spoilers....

[cursive wraith]

[short ether]

Bro look at the rear toe angle

Dammit I'm warming up to this car

[zenith pumice]

I love the new concept car

Nose should be a little narrower but apart from that it’s a beauty

[short ether]

Nose and front wing imo

[steel lily]

I would prefer if the nose continued to narrow instead of widening but if it improves safety I'm fine with it

[short ether]

Well that nose width isn't mandatory

[civic hedge]

can someone explain how the nose narrowness is connected to safety?

[short ether]

Like this one

Well if the nose is narrpwer, you have less area to absorb impact

[civic hedge]

oh ok that way

thanks

[short ether]

And also with very thin noses, that're longer, the more that it might stab into whatever you hit

[civic hedge]

hmm yea

[short ether]

Ala 2001 Alex Zanardi

[abstract pawn]

https://twitter.com/AeroGandalf/status/1426096135869972482?s=20

AeroGandalf (@AeroGandalf)

The 2022 F1 rules are the most prescriptive ever. The car is split into 30 different "reference volumes" each with a list of rules, from prescribed shapes, minimum convex and concave radii, angle changes across tangent curves projected on different planes.

Likes

132

Twitter · Aug 13, 2021, 8:19 AM

Thread^^

[granite tundra]

in very, very broad strokes, you're designing your crash structures to meant a minimum energy absorption/dissipation threshold for a given velocity

you could achieve that in a couple of ways- making the deformable crash structure longer means that you're decelerating the car over a longer distance, meaning your peak and sustained deceleration is lower

having larger crash structures also means you can keep the weight down

[civic hedge]

whoa damn

thanks

[granite tundra]

vice versa for smaller structures- you effectively have less 'distance' to play with, so you have to go into the other direction and add weight to the impact structures to ensure they're still able to meet the impact requirements

[civic hedge]

hmm

[granite tundra]

but the other considerations include having a minimum cross section, and its position

which is tightly controlled to ensure the crash structures can properly interact with one another

[civic hedge]

i see

so everything is connected

[granite tundra]

which is a tangent but that's why we've had the thumb noses in the past

[civic hedge]

ah ya

[granite tundra]

but yeah, it's all one big tradeoff

ideally teams would go for something like a high, thin nose

[short ether]

The 2022 1,350mm nose length is cursed

[pliant canyon]

Hello guys, I have a question. Why did F1 cars from 1998 to 2008 had grooved slick tires? Talking about these for example:

[zenith pumice]

That was the rules imposed by the FIA during that time period

Slicks weren’t allowed because they wanted to reduce grip on the tyres, and grooves were a way to do that

[short ether]

Then Canada hairpin happened

[pliant canyon]

thanks for answering 👍

[pliant canyon]

Kubica 2007 right?

[short ether]

I can't remember if it was 2007 or 2008

but the hairpin broke up massively

and the cars were overshooting

I'm leaning towards 2008

I think that was one of the catalysts for slick tyres

could be wrong

[pliant canyon]

i see

And why did some of the grooved tires have the grooves green? Was it just for aesthetics or did it have any technical benefits?

Because from this point of view it looks like those grooves are "filled" with that green color, but i might be wrong tho

[short ether]

I didn't notice that

[pliant canyon]

thanks

[short ether]

They painted them green as some insentive for climate change

This was for 2009

[spiral gyro]

Interesting

[whole steppe]

Loved those days 🔥

[tawny spindle]

the good age of screaming v10s and ferrari dominance

[short ether]

2008 had neither of those

[alpine ice]

i like v8 more

[tacit ridge]

i like the v6's more

this is a joke, dont kill me

[short ether]

i like the current engines cause they're the most efficient and earplugs aren't mandatory

[zenith pumice]

The V6H engines aren't actually bad, I dunno why everyone says they are

I much prefer these ones over the screaming V8s which became really annoying at times to listen to

[steel lily]

I like how the v12s aren't as high pitched while still having a bit of screaming in the top end

[leaden hare]

How to you make a engine scream more

May I ask

[short ether]

raise the max rpm ig

[steel lily]

Higher rpm and more cylinders firing at the same time

[leaden hare]

Ah ok

[zenith pumice]

Also I beg to differ with this

From people who’ve watched old f1 “the good days” weren’t even that exciting a lot of the time

[steel lily]

that is why american v8s and ferrari v8s sound very different

[zenith pumice]

You can find just as much excitement today as you could then

[steel lily]

ferrari uses flat plane crank vs all american cross plane crank, the ferrari has more cylinders firing at once and can rev higher

[short ether]

That is... Untrue but okay

They don't fire more cylinders at once, they just fire at even intervals, a cross-plane fires at even intervals however on each bacnk there's significant gaps

[cursive wraith]

Firing order in engines:

Isn't that what firing order means?

[short ether]

Yeah

https://youtu.be/dJrpmY6AITE

https://youtu.be/iw4rqQD479o

[cursive wraith]

Yes

I had learnt it when I read my dad's car manual

4 cylinder engine 1-3-4-2

[steel lily]

Ah okay, I have a extremely basic understanding of how that kind of stuff works

[short ether]

Because of the flatties' even intervals on both sides, it allows them to run lighter counterweights and therefore rev higher. However nowadays for things like MotoGP, the engines run cross-planes or V4's as they can get to those insane revs and have the advantage of less secondary vibration which hinders rider feel

Now we can get even large V8's past 11,000, the benefits are now being able to be utilised

[steel lily]

Engines with more cylinders are generally able to rev higher because of better balance, less vibrations, and shorter strokes with the same displacement?

[short ether]

Well, that too, hence things like V12's and V10's and V16's etc.

[steel lily]

Long inline engines are not great, an inline 12 is gonna need a massive and strong crankshaft which will limit rpms and your ability to rev

[short ether]

Okay... I fail to see the point of brining this up, with all due respect

Long inline engines are not great
well, i think we all know that :p

[steel lily]

i don't really either

i guess i thought it was interesting

in the moment

[short ether]

Fair point

[steel lily]

i think the strangest engine layout used in f1 was the BRM H16

[short ether]

Yeah when they made old V16's or straight 8's, they'd draw power from the middle, aka similar to putting two V8's/i4's together end on end, so the torsional forces would be halved on each side

[short ether]

Actual Legitimate want for new F1 engines

Freevalve

No need for throttle bodies, making air induction work like a fuel map, could use even the same mapping as the spec ECU just repurposed

[reef pine]

Wait, didn't Koenigsegg develop a similar system?

[short ether]

Freevalve is a subsidiary of Koenigsegg

Hence the TFG

However the technology can be very simple to make coz it was... Like... It's a solenoid

[reef pine]

ah yeah, was just reading about it

/ watched engineering explained's video on the Gemera engine

[short ether]

Yeah, and Donut's video made me realise how like... Good Freevalve is, as opposed to me thinking Eurgh, new fangled thing that's convoluted

And of course... Fuels and that

I wonder if you can combine the two for intakes. Like have the intake valve have small holes where and injector sprays into the hollow centre section of the valve

[steel lily]

After watching that I wondered the same thing, it's better for power and effeciancy and it is more compact

[short ether]

I would say with the current size of the Solenoids, that the size is not too different

[steel lily]

F1 teams would be able to make it pretty small

[short ether]

Good point

[feral vessel]

Although speaking of it, wouldn't it come under variable valve timing ?

and isn't that like difficult to regulate for the FIA ?

[short ether]

Well it'd be Variable valve timing and lift, completely

So it'd ditch that whole ban entirely,b but... Wouldn't be as asinine to make methinks

[violet smelt]

https://twitter.com/AeroGandalf/status/1430142619506692130?s=20

AeroGandalf (@AeroGandalf)

1/11 So begins a rant. 2022 cars are not a "return to ground-effect" as many people claim, as ground-effect is a set of physical phenomenon NOT a geometric shape. 2022 F1 cars will have 3-d or tunnel floors rather than flat underbodies with rear diffusers.

Twitter · Aug 24, 2021, 12:19 PM

[zenith pumice]

TooLow is this your secret account

[cursive wraith]

[granite tundra]

Oh thank fuck

Somebody has said it

Though to be pedantic the underbody isn't technically completely flat

[short ether]

it's referred to as flat undebody in the regs, isn't it

and yes, ground effect never left F1

[civic hedge]

the ground effect is called something right?

[short ether]

what do you mean? it's called ground effect

[civic hedge]

wait

[short ether]

bernoulli?

[civic hedge]

venturi effect

[short ether]

yes that's the same thing

[civic hedge]

oh ok

[short ether]

that's why many people think ground effect had left the sports

[civic hedge]

hmm

[short ether]

because it wasn't generated by venturi channels (tunnels?) under the car, but by the "flat underbody"

[civic hedge]

ah ok

[soft shadow]

Just call it a chunnel ala Bri'ish person if you're unsure which to use (both are correct anyway tho... )

[abstract pawn]

Really fascinating read

[short ether]

@granite tundra wdym?

[granite tundra]

the step plane has a different vertical position than the reference plane/plank

[short ether]

That...

What?

[short ether]

I meant this

[granite tundra]

oh

the fact that ground effect isn't 'making a return'

[short ether]

As soon as I types that I realised oh yeah... GA never left

[soft shadow]

To put it in a more simple meaning... GE never made an exit, it was only restricted due to flat underbodies

[abstract pawn]

@ruby plover #f1-games

[granite tundra]

Very f1 technical

Thank you

[green marlin]

I feel like we have no mercy here for peoples who post wrong. lol

[short ether]

Well it makes sense

[reef pine]

Indeed, this is the technical channel. You are supposed to know what you are talking about.

[short ether]

Like the insiade of a BRM V16

[zenith pumice]

Wow that is... a beautiful diagram

[short ether]

Love a good bit of Tony Matthews

Fun fact about this V16 and most Straight 8's on racing at the time... They're driven from the centre, not the ends

All the timing gearing is done im the centre, with a shaft that has that big gear that goes to the clutch

So it circumvents the torsional stress issues

[green marlin]

What am I doin here then. haha

[short ether]

Today I found out a big reason why Cars run rake

For the Underbody, it breaks the build up of a boundary layer on the floor, which if you know aero helps massively

[civic hedge]

this is wonderful

[short ether]

[green marlin]

Tell me more (for a guy with only minor aero knowledge)

Also, why did Mercedes go with low rake then?

[soft shadow]

To balance out the long wheelbase

Look at Racing Point in 2019... had the same long wheelbase design of Merc but use the High rake of Red Bull.... that didn't work at all

Rakes varies on how the philosophy of the car does

It could work depending how you base the car philosophy

[short ether]

An Aerodynamic boundary layer is a layer of air right above the surface of a wing, which starts to be overcome by friction with the surface, which makes it slower, higher pressure, and hotter. For the top surface of the car, apart from cooling intakes, this isn't too much of a problem as far as I'm aware, but for the underside of a wing where faster, low pressure air is always beneficial, and most downforce is generated? Nahnahnah

I don't claim to be an expert so I probably used the wrong illustration but basically boundary layer bad where you want air flow attached to a wing surface

[short ether]

don't worry we have another not aerodynamics expert

[reef pine]

we have a *not an aerodynamics expert

[short ether]

ah yes

[green marlin]

So it's basically the layer that binds the surface and the other air molecules? I've heard something like that before, so I think I got what you meant.

[short ether]

W12

excuse?

[short ether]

I assume he wants a W12 F1 car

[soft shadow]

Let's talk about HANS....

Normally, HANS devices are like this

But the pic before is a Hybrid HANS

And what do you guys think about the idea of Hybrid HANS

[granite tundra]

what do you mean?

[cedar olive]

What do HANS do

[steel lily]

prevent the head from dislocating from the spinal cord among other things

[steel lily]

good for people without 4+ belt harness

[cedar olive]

Oh good, we’ll as long as it’s not important or anything it’s fine

[granite tundra]

hybrid FHRs are generally useful if you're not able to pass the top straps over the yoke

[steel lily]

yes

like on a seatbelt on a road car

[granite tundra]

but frankly most of the time it just comes down to preference

if you're running a $600+ FHR, chances are you're probably in a car with a cage and belts

[steel lily]

you want the restraint to be comfortable ofc

[granite tundra]

though ive never worn a hybrid one so cant comment on comfort

[steel lily]

for the lightning laps for car and driver they use normal road cars so they need to use the hybrids

[steel lily]

ive never worn either

[granite tundra]

it depends actually

some FHRs don't have homologation if you're not running a 5 point harness

frankly i wouldn't run anything in a road car

but i also wouldn't drive a road car in anger on a track to begin with

especially since there's less of a need for a HANS device in a road car because you've just got a normal belt on, and your body moves more during an accident

[steel lily]

if i were running a road car on the track i would have a bucket seat and and a 5 point harness

and a helmet and HANS

[granite tundra]

so at that point you've got everything

cage, seat, belts, hans

[steel lily]

yeah

[feral vessel]

that's reserved for #f1-games or #ot｜games @loud crow

[spiral fog]

Not sure where to put this but does anyone know why the drivers handlers record their interview? When the drivers give an interview they have someone from the team standing next to them and recording what they’re saying, how come?

[abstract pawn]

So that if some publication would say "Lewis Hamilton says he hates Max Verstappen for having a red car", the team can go back and listen to what Lewis actually said.

[copper loom]

can someone find me how deep are the grooves in the pirelli wets in comparison to the bridgestone wet and monsoon tyres

[abstract pawn]

https://i.imgur.com/y2pH4vt.jpeg

Not sure we can actually find anything about the depth of the grooves

The old grooves in slicks were 2.5 mm deep, and back in the day there was a minimum of 5 mm depth for new extreme wets.

From Reddit^^

[copper loom]

maybe it's just the lighting but the bridgestones look deeper

but thanks man fr

[green marlin]

I don't see any difference except the pattern. lol

[toxic saddle]

went from merc role to redbull role🤔

[feral vessel]

But that’s not something you need to talk about here.

[toxic saddle]

just pointing it out no big deal 🤷‍♂️

[feral vessel]

I didn’t tell you off for that, but just said keep this channel as serious as possible instead.

[dapper karma]

Who cares about the roles someone has, no need to even point it out or whatever 🙃

[short ether]

If it's no big deal then why bring it up in a Technical server?

[civic fern]

and now the entire channel has gone off topic debating whether something is relevant to be noticed and pointed out or not

well done

anyway, how deep actually are the old Bridgestone Monsoons?

[short ether]

I assume around 10mm considering the Wet tyres have an increased circumference of 670mm instead of 660, soon to be 735 instead of 725, and the grooves are deeper than the 1998-2008 drys

[soft shadow]

Ever since Audi showcased their R8 LMS Evo II GT3 car, I was amazed and disturbed on the new rear wing.... the so called "reverse swan neck" is something rarely used, the only memorable car that used the same concept was the Ford GT GT2 in ALMS... Then it got me thinking... F1 has the same mounting design of swan neck wings

I remembered Merc splitting their drivers to use different mounting pillars in Baku, with Lewis running the Low Downforce setup and the single pillar mount while Bottas used the High downforce setup with the double pillar

Now... what would happen if F1 used the same reverse swan neck design idea... if there was a way to do it given the rear wing flap has 2 parts...

Here's what the reverse swan neck wing looks like btw

Here's the image of Mercedes split wing idea during Baku (from THE RACE)

And just to give a reference of what an ordinary swan neck looks

[short ether]

They'd look cumbersome to say the least

[light willow]

Yall think the new regs will actually improve racing as much as the FIA are saying they will?

[little veldt]

Every last reg change say the same thing 😂

It’s just a roll of a dice who adapts the best and dominates

[civic fern]

hmm the Senna has it too

seems like nowadays the focus is on under-wing airflow rather than top

[short ether]

It's almost like the underwing flow is the part that does most of the work

[short ether]

Change my mind: the peak rpm cap for a V8 is 16,500

[steel lily]

18,000, more horsepower

[short ether]

No

It sounds the worst at 18,000 like in 2009-2013

[kind lotus]

i don't think there will be a big game changing thing besides not having drs but it will be slower

[limber sluice]

We will have DRS

In 22

They said they may switch it off

But I don't see DRS being ditched

More about this in #formula-1 if you wanna continue

[spring sparrow]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CTVG26kNDQy/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

thef1magazine

🔩F1 Technical: Is Mercedes using intercooler tricks to gain advantage over the competition?

Since the British GP, Red Bull suspected after analysing the GPS data that Mercedes have gained some performance and they think that it's all thanks to a trick in the cooling system. Following that, Red Bull requested a clarification from the FIA regardi...

Likes

168

Instagram

[civic fern]

I think its a different type of work entirely

A traditional classic spoiler is pretty simple, it generates downforce over the top of the wing

The overhanging spoiler exemplifies flow under the wing

Generating downforce using the difference in pressure and changes in flow speed over the bottom relative to the top

So its not quite as simple as the underside always did more work than the topside

[edgy anchor]

Nah like... The most amount of pressure potential is bottomside

[soft shadow]

Afaik, the R8 Evo II GT3 using a reverse swan neck design is to have a better airflow in the underwing

[short ether]

im seriously concerned, is this gonna be enough?

[edgy anchor]

They're SAFER Barriers

They're proper Oval level safety stuff

[delicate kayak]

it's like Indycar no ?

[cursive wraith]

Exactly

[edgy anchor]

Yea

[silver bear]

So are AM and merc screwed because of the banking?

[edgy anchor]

Why would they be?

[silver bear]

The oil systems have problems with it

And I don't know that they can change it

[edgy anchor]

Pogish

[soft shadow]

SAFER barriers are the most greatest safety devices for Banked circuits and Ovals

Just look at what happened to the DTM race at Lausitz a few weeks ago.... that's what happens when there's no SAFER barriers

[steel lily]

That was a really bad shunt

[edgy anchor]

Wait wha happen?

[steel lily]

Esmee Hawkey had a really bad crash, she lost the rear and went really hard into the wall

She was fine though

[slow epoch]

yo my f1 wont open

[steel lily]

Probably not for this channel

[slow epoch]

it says techinal

where else do i talk about it then

[crimson granite]

#formula-1

[left quest]

#f1-games

just read the channel desc lol

located on the top

[steel lily]

No #formula-1

[left quest]

are they talking about f1 or the f1 game

[leaden hare]

idk

[steel lily]

F1 app

[left quest]

Ohhh

my bad

[civic fern]

yeah this is pretty much the "what is Mercedes doing to it's intercooler" channel

at least thats gonna be the current topic here

[zealous mirage]

Max took pole by 0.03s with a possible DRS issue on the last DRS zone of his second flying lap
Either he forgot it or it broke during the lap

Confirmed: Max didn't open his DRS on his second flying lap

[abstract pawn]

He did open it

It just did not open fully

[vocal dirge]

So his third sector could have been faster?

[zealous mirage]

Doesn't look open at all for me (meters before the timing line)

Third sector would have definitely been faster by as much as 0.1s

[rough hound]

Did he open it in sector 2?

[zealous mirage]

I don't know yet
Probably did since he went fastest there

[rough hound]

Ok

[formal nacelle]

Better resolution

[abstract pawn]

It did open

Just not properly

[rough hound]

No it didn't

Do you actually see a gap in that wing?

[abstract pawn]

Yes it did

Yes...

[rough hound]

Where?

Zoom in and show me where the gap is?

[abstract pawn]

You can even see it close lol

[formal nacelle]

He did have it open on the first drs

[rough hound]

Good. I saw he gained in sector 2 but lost in sector 3

[rough hound]

When?

[rough hound]

Wtf

There is no gap

That is the reflection off the wing

[abstract pawn]

bruh

[abstract pawn]

Bro you can literally see it closing

[rough hound]

Ok yes. In that one you can

The first one you cant

[zealous mirage]

Max and RedBull didn't discuss the DRS on the radio after his flying lap, Max probably didn't even notice

[abstract pawn]

I mean it is the same GIF just slowed down so

[rough hound]

As long as he has pole he won't care

[formal nacelle]

Max just said to giedo van der garde, behind the scenes, that he accidently shifted 2 gears instead of 1 which might have somehow cancelled the DRS

[zealous mirage]

His DRS opened but got stuck less than halfway through

[formal nacelle]

Idk, thats the explanation max gave himself

[abstract pawn]

It did open, just not fully, and as it should have.

[formal nacelle]

Horner saying it opened fractionally

[abstract pawn]

Yes, as I already showed.

[formal nacelle]

Dont shoot the messanger

Just horner confirming it

[zealous mirage]

RedBull looking to get a fully new PU after Perez' Q1 exit
Will probably start from last on the grid but will get rid of all his upcoming penalties

https://twitter.com/CanalplusF1/status/1434165235343106051?s=20

Horner confirms to Canal+ his DRS didn't work properly and cost him about a tenth on his lap

CANAL+ F1® (@CanalplusF1)

🗨️ "Ce n'était pas fait exprès pour le DRS"

Christian Horner revient sur la pole position à domicile de Max Verstappen 🎙️

#DutchGP🇳🇱 https://t.co/2fs2yhPwc2

▶ Play video

Twitter · Sep 4, 2021, 2:43 PM

(french commentary)

[formal nacelle]

Apparently Lewis set the exact same time Max set in his first run. So even if Max didnt improve he’d still have pole because he set the time first

[zealous mirage]

https://www.racefans.net/2021/09/04/verstappen-was-unaware-of-drs-fault-on-pole-winning-lap/

[cursive wraith]

[limber sluice]

This is after the drs flap closed in sector 2 during the final flying lap

That gap between the wing flaps

🐡 fishy

[upper ivy]

ngl I'd have loved that

[copper mason]

Some technical expert might want to explain what does this mean

[abstract pawn]

The tire blankets

[copper mason]

Ahh ok so there's no further action?

[abstract pawn]

Yes

[smoky trout]

What's the white line seen on the Honda's tire ?

[blazing saffron]

the white lines at the time denoted "prime" tyres I believe, as it was the softer compound

[smoky trout]

Prime is harder compound then ?

[blazing saffron]

they marked the different compounds like that in 2007 and 2008

[smoky trout]

oh ok

[blazing saffron]

nope, prime was the softer compound

[smoky trout]

Oh

[wintry pollen]

Do you guys think that Merc isnt as dominant as previous years because of the new floor reg?

[tender ridge]

Can anyone help me get my head around why the wider line is quicker when it's a banked corner?

Other than being able to keep more momentum

[wanton bronze]

and even because RB reduced the gap with engine and aero. Surely they took advantage of the new floor regulations tho, especially in the very first part of the season

[edgy anchor]

Option compound has white

Also they ran green grooves in late season 2008

[smoky trout]

I see

[edgy anchor]

With that inner middle being white for Options

[narrow thicket]

I imagine RB will use that spa skinny boi rear wing at monza?

[edgy anchor]

Most likely

[proven spade]

How skinny was spa skinny @narrow thicket

Bc monza wings are basically non existent

[civic fern]

McLaren might as well ask to borrow the rear wings from their Indycar team for a weekend

cost cutting 👌

oval spec

[narrow thicket]

New rear wing spec down at red bull 😄

[short ether]

This channel is for serious discussions

[spiral gyro]

Oh yes absolutely

[dawn kernel]

hold up

[soft shadow]

That's a broken rear wing.... not a rear wing spec@narrow thicket

[dawn kernel]

is option the softer tyre?

it was mentioned earlier that prime was the softer one

[short ether]

option softer
prime harder

[narrow thicket]

I know. That's the joke

[soft shadow]

And the joke is not funny

[spiral gyro]

[dawn kernel]

ah thanks

i know that options was the softer one but i got confused

[short ether]

option because it meant you were likely to need a tyre change, so it wasn't the first (prime) choice for a race

[dawn kernel]

ah

ye

[soft shadow]

Briggies really had a confusing name scheme to their tyres during their tyre run in F1

[short ether]

it's older than Bridgestone

that's what people in the 70s and 80s would say

unless you mean something else

i don't remember how Bridgestone called their compounds

[soft shadow]

Prime sounds like "This is the best of the best, meaning it would be the fastest tyre" aka Softest compound

While Option can be like "Plan B, Option... Make it last"

[short ether]

it's in the context of a race, the prime strategy is the one with the least amount of stops

(not always)

[dawn kernel]

for me prime sounds hard by itself

until i learned that it rlly was the harder one

[spiral gyro]

Prime is like the primary tyre which teams are gonna usually use but the option was an alternative tyre just as someone said plan b

[soft shadow]

For 2007, Bridgestone again became the sole tyre partner and supplier in Formula One with the withdrawal of Michelin, and introduced four compounds of tyre, two of which are made available at each race. The harder tyre (referred to as the "prime" tyre) is more durable but gives less grip, and the softer tyre (referred to as the "option" tyre) gives more grip but is less durable. Both compounds have to be used by each car during a race and the softer tyre had a painted white stripe in the second groove to distinguish between compounds.

[short ether]

i don't see what's confusing with that

[spiral gyro]

Think he thought that there were different names for the tyres other than primes and options

[soft shadow]

Briggies had a complex descriptive name sequence during their sole tyre supplier run, unlike Pirelli

[short ether]

Pirelli was probably requested to make it simple because of that tbf!

[spiral gyro]

I think that’s what happened after 2018

Pretty sure that’s what happened

[soft shadow]

The Ultra, Super, Hyper naming sequence was quite simple but too much, 2019 saw the C1 to C5 which was further simplified and more understandable

[short ether]

ye

[tulip isle]

but pink tyres

[edgy anchor]

No

[west rose]

Imagine if F1 have autopilot

[granite tundra]

I think this ship has long sailed

[short ether]

sadly

[edgy anchor]

Alright boiyos, if F1 adapted more active aero, what do you guys think they could do to use it?

Other than suspension?

[short ether]

active aero, what do you mean by that

[edgy anchor]

Y'know like active actuation of wing elements I'd assume the rules'd be changed so said elements could do so without screwing up the entire wing

Active venting, active suspension for car attitude

Active diffuser changes

[upper ivy]

A while ago I read about plans to possibly introduce such "active" wings in the future in order to increase efficiency

I'm skeptical about its effects on racing though.

[edgy anchor]

One of my favourite ideas is something like watching an F1 car come off the banking at Monza and seeing as it goes by how the rake and wing attack angles decrease

I guess I should probably animate that to really show it off but that means getting into animation

[upper ivy]

That would be cool yeah. But if you use e.g. huge wings in corners and immediately make them smaller on straights; wouldn't that mean massive dirty air in corners and minimal slipstream on straights?

[edgy anchor]

It depends because like... Not all drag is dirty

This is more to rectify my bias in terms of DRS, because I just find it too gimmicky to have a manual press for one element on certain spots where you now know they're gonna overtake

I guess alot of this could be done by allowing wing flex

[past blade]

isnt there more activ areo coming in in the proposed 2025 rule set to allow the them to reduce the maximum amount of fuel used per race even more

thats a pretty cool use for it

i would also like to see a certain level of driver control over active areo
a bit like when they could adjust front wing angles from the cars.
but to a greater extreme with rear wings and giving the drivers further freedom

it could make for more interesting racing if drivers are actively changing their downforce levels in the race
idk

[edgy anchor]

I've not heard of that proposal yet

My ideal would be... Say for example you're on a straight, you're behind somebody, the wings go flat
You get to a sweeper, and your wings slide up and become slightly more attacked than the car in front

So you maintain that, then using the suspension having more rake than the car in front too

[past blade]

i heard something about it a few months ago.
so the wings would trim out on the straights to reduce drag and fuel consumption
but to see that also taken to a further extreme giving drivers some control ober it idk

[past blade]

yeah i liek that idea too

[edgy anchor]

It would be insanely hard to balance between competitors, and also how would you make driver interaction? Idk... But

Just that'd be the idea if they wanted to fully fully send

[past blade]

yeah i mean
they used to do with front wings to a limited degree
idk

i like teh idea of giving drivers some more in car adjustments to use during a race
it gives them more control over the car

But with greater drier ability to adjust wing angles id probably ban wing angle changes in pitstops because you wouldnt need it anymore

[edgy anchor]

Make the wing mainplanes do this

[short ether]

Question

[edgy anchor]

Answer

[short ether]

What's the changes that the 2022 cars will make?

And what is dirty air?

[edgy anchor]

To answer first. Dirty air is where air is busy still doing vortexes and swiggling about behind a car, to then hit a car behind and not be useful to make downforce efficiently

Because the air is going willy nilly it'll stall out the aero sufaces of the car behind, which means that that car can no longer have the grip to follow

[short ether]

Ahhhh I see I see

[edgy anchor]

The 2022 cars are being designed in such a way where the airflow that falls off the car won't be as chaotic, even if that means a greater amount of drag, or less downforce

[short ether]

And the rear wing was also changed into somewhat a curved angle

The cars got lower in terms of suspension

But the wheels are larger

[edgy anchor]

This includes a reintroduction of fully sculpted floors with sealing surfaces, and the removal of wing endplates as we know them

[short ether]

Ohhhhhh

Sorry, I'm just a newbie to tech in F1 although I understand the topics of physics

Aerodynamics have 3 laws after all

[edgy anchor]

A very easy way to make alot of downforce without alot of drag nor turbulence is by increasing the bias underneath

[short ether]

Bias?

[edgy anchor]

Also, the use of larger rims on slightly larger tyres means that the tyre doesn't have as much room to deform

Which is worse mechanically, but better aerodynamically

[short ether]

You have a point

[edgy anchor]

Bias... As in like the percentage of downforce on the top vs. The bottom

[short ether]

Ahhhh I see I see

[edgy anchor]

Similar to how we say brake bias

[short ether]

Question 2: How does engine failures happen randomly? Like what happened to Seb and Lewis last FP2

[short ether]

Ohhhhhh

[edgy anchor]

What I've heard in regards to the Mercedes engines at Zandvoort was that their oiling system was not prepared for the forces generated by the banks

[short ether]

Hmmmm so the banks affect the car as well

[nova creek]

engine failures are random, as mechanical reliabitly isnt predictable....at such high speeds, the engine is under immense effort...so they are designed to fail, if theres a small malfunction to ensure safety

[edgy anchor]

Whether that be that the oilpan wasn't made as efficiently to scavenge with that angle but...

[short ether]

Ohhhhh

[edgy anchor]

Afaik that would've caused oil starvation periods

[short ether]

A lack of oil I see

The ideal engine temperature is 100 degrees up right?

[nova creek]

with seb he had an ers issue....where the battery was uncontrollably active...thats why the car was electrically active, and the marshals couldnt touch the car until it was safe to do so...thats why fp1 was so short

[short ether]

Ohhh I see I see

[edgy anchor]

Oil temps are about 110, Water temps about 90

[nova creek]

nothing as such....each engine would have an operating window

[short ether]

Hmmm ok ok

Man I have a lot of questions

[edgy anchor]

Like?

Why don't we have more V10?

[short ether]

Like how Williams managed to score 20 points despite having an underdeveloped car

[short ether]

Aren't the V6s good?

[edgy anchor]

I said no so

[short ether]

Ohhhh ok ok

What's the difference between both engines?

[edgy anchor]

Wdym the differences?

Coz like... One has 6 cylinders and one has 10 or like uh

[nova creek]

this was done to have lighter, smaller engines

but v6s are still more powerful than the older engines

[edgy anchor]

It was definitely not done to be lighter

The 3L V10's got down to 82kg

[nova creek]

it was

u go back in time....there was no engine cover then bcoz of the size of the v10s and v12s

[edgy anchor]

What?

[nova creek]

manufacturers were able to develop powerful engines, with lesser cylinders, hence cutting down on cost and weight....so thats why they went for v6s

[edgy anchor]

They're not... Lighter tho

They've been made consistently heavier to have less cost for units... ignore dev cost screwing all that

[short ether]

Ohhhhhh

[nova creek]

mate wth....v6s are lighter than the older ones

the hybrid systems are heavy...the mguk and mguh part...thats why the pu in total is heavier

[edgy anchor]

They're around 113kg minus the ES, MGU-K and MGU-H

[nova creek]

v8s are on avg 250- 280 kg

[edgy anchor]

I cannot... Insist enough that all the 2.4L V8's were 95kg

And the 3L V10's got down to the 80kg range

A 280kg V10 is like... Diesel territory

[short ether]

Ohhhh

Well, that's new knowledge to use

[edgy anchor]

Yeah they were heckin' light

[soft shadow]

The last time other Active Aero devices other than DRS made into F1... It was Mercedes' Double DRS

[edgy anchor]

Correct, but it was less... It's more loopholy so more unstable

[drifting rampart]

https://twitter.com/papandreou_jim/status/1435300095508025354

JimPapandreou (@papandreou_jim)

John Barnard appreciation post. We should really appreciate this man because he brought in F1 carbon fibre made cars in 1981, coke-shaped bodywork in 1983 and semi-automatic gearbox in 1989.
#F1

Twitter · Sep 7, 2021, 5:53 PM

[edgy anchor]

Big uo the Brits

[reef pine]

Newey, Chapman, Barnard

sheesh

[soft shadow]

Barnard my man

[short ether]

and Brawn

[edgy anchor]

Brawn, Dennis, Chapman, Barnard, Newey, uhhhh

Illien/Morgan, Costin/Duckworth