f1-technical

[agile karma]

So like modern venturi tunnels and diffusers? Where they disrupt the air underneath the car which gets send out the car behind ?

[zinc bison]

Because of the flat floor, sealing the edge with a cushion of air was super important

the bargeboard did a huge amount of this cushion forming

[static breach]

No I wouldn't say that I'm pretty sure that venturi tunnels were there to control the air pressure and airflow underneath the car which therefore create the downforce

[agile karma]

Thanks for the explanation, I assume that's why 2021 cars where slower then 2020?

[zinc bison]

Yes. It's likely the regs were 'secretly' to hurt Mercedes, as the floor cutout also punished low-rake cars (Merc) and helped high rake cars (Red Bull). the floor cutout did slow everyone, though

less floor area to generate downforce = less downforce

[agile karma]

Ahh gotcha, thank you.

[static breach]

There were also changes to the brake ducts among other things to reduce the reliance on downforce which caused closer racing but also generally heavier cars

[agile karma]

In sorry but how did this hurt mercedes more then redbull? High rake just amens the rear is higher then the front right so wouldn't it affect the downforce equally?

[zinc bison]

This is further than I can recall tbh, but I know Merc had the longest wheelbase and Red Bull the shortest which also affected it

[agile karma]

All good ill just google it tha ks for your help so far

[zinc bison]

https://youtu.be/wsEvs5Vbry0?si=jLyaHEBHTnOSfh4K

skip to 1:12 for skipping an ad

[static breach]

It's because the Mercedes relied far more on the floor for their downforce hence why they ran such low rake whereas the Red Bull preferred higher rake and relied a little more on the wings compares to the Merc so it affected them less

[agile karma]

Thx ill watch that video now

[agile karma]

Thank you i think I get it now

[static breach]

Np man happy to help

[primal patrol]

does directing air towards the side of the car help high pressure low energy air from the outside of the tunnel to not want to enter the high energy low pressure air going under the car?

working like a side skirt

[topaz lion]

isn't the rake to help with the movement of the car during acceleration and braking
i forget the reason

[topaz lion]

think they use vortecies to prevent it from mixing

[tall wyvern]

No each fence generates a big vortex which then combines with the other big vortices from the other fences which continues down the floor (underneath)

[errant yoke]

Wassup with Ferrari car this year, did they really reach their car’s absolute potential last year

[inland cobalt]

if aero devices are allowed on the halo then why arent teams using it, i would of thought they would take any chance they can to create more downforce no?

[plain tree]

I think it's just not that worth it

[urban quarry]

@dense meteor

[heady frost]

ok, so i´m curious as a tifosi, what are the development flaws that have held back ferrari SF-25 performance during this 2025 season? :C

[heady elm]

<@&781898349006684170>

[quiet mantle]

The short of it is Vasseur attempted some radical designs (His fault) and the team of engineers he’s waiting on were on gardening leave (Not his fault)

[tranquil imp]

Brains

[heady frost]

oh, thank uuu :3

[heady frost]

lmaooo

[grave fiber]

<@&781898349006684170>

[amber kraken]

"It's terrible! Drives like a pig!"

Not the first time that Red Bull had the "Ferrari F14T" issues. Given how it sort of started last year

https://lastwordonsports.com/motorsports/2025/08/03/red-bull-suffer-from-understeer-and-then-oversteer-in-hungary/

[topaz lion]

the plank wear issue ruined charles' race.
and in spa it ruined lewis' race.

[amber kraken]

The difference of the throttle inputs when cars had Traction Control compared to nowadays

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0kcD-MRDP4

[dusky terrace]

It also exposes the aero surfaces to more air especially the rear wing and places them at a steeper angle

[tall wyvern]

‘Exposes aero surfaces’ no but more angle yes. It also adds diffuser expansion.

[dusky terrace]

A higher rake would increase the effective frontal area,meaning more air?

[eager sigil]

hypothetically

what if f1 went to like

i dunno

twin turbo 3.5l v12s or smth

[remote finch]

peak f1 that’s what would happen

[lost jungle]

indeed

[craggy holly]

how do i play with some one thats on steam if i have ea

[plain tree]

#f1-games but, you just need him to give you his EA nickname (in game on his player card he should have 1 or 2 nicknames, if he has 2 then he should give you the one with EA logo next to it, if he has one, just make him give you his nickname) or HE adds YOU through the game

[hazy cipher]

correction: deathtrap

legit death on 4 wheels

[zenith palm]

if yall rmbr the rb19 was there a disadvantage to their sidepod design

compared to liek ferarri n mercedes

[eager sigil]

isnt that what f1 has mostly been

engineering sport

with danger

[eager sigil]

unsure
ferrari did. ferrari things and mercedes lacked side pods for the most part of the season

[hazy cipher]

if your name isn't fernando alonso or max verstappen you would need driver aids (not fr)

[eager sigil]

you forgot lance stroll and nicholas goatifi...

[hazy cipher]

even with driver aids they would still crash SOMEHOW

although latifi does it on purpose

unlike stroll

[eager sigil]

i swear michael schumacher possessed the guy and made him spin out so lh44 wouldn't get an eighth wdc

[hazy cipher]

honestly

and sargeant does it on purpose too
he just loves making album covers

[eager sigil]

what if f1 turbos had like

tesla turbines

also could bargeboards still be on the modern ground effect cars

why tf do f1 cars just not have mechanical steering 💔

[static breach]

They do? They just have power steering as well

As far as I know at least

[primal patrol]

tesla turbines are supposed to only be efficient with steady flow

the violent exhaust system of an F1 car is not steady

funnily enough tesla turbines are the best in dams for hydro applications and no hydropower plant uses them

[eager sigil]

true...

[primal patrol]

in f1 precision takes priority over wrestling with the steering with raw strength

the power steering doesn't make the sport easier it gives the sport a new variable for the drivers to be good at

https://tenor.com/view/thats-tight-right-nice-gif-13981641

that's how you get this shit in f1

[tall wyvern]

I mean, kind of? But if you put a flat plate completely vertical does it now make more lift than a slight angle? Clearly not. The actual physical mechanism that makes the lift is the integrated pressures all along the surface, so if the integrated pressures have a ‘more downward’ component in option b versus option a, option b makes more downforce, regardless of frontal area.

[dusky terrace]

That makes sense,Ty for the explanation

[eager sigil]

i was told they dont have them

so

[lost jungle]

they've had power steering for decades though

[eager sigil]

k

[solar heath]

why i can see the servers settings 😭

[quiet mantle]

Everyone can see some of the server settings but have zero power to change anything expect your personal notifications

[gray linden]

Does the w13 have a shorter wheelbase than the w12

[magic sundial]

this is iracing and its an official merc collab so i think it does

i might be wrong tho

it might also be the design of the car making it look shorter

[tall wyvern]

There was no maximum wheelbase in 2021, in 2022 there was. So yes.

[gray linden]

What if f1 brought back unrestricted wheelbases

[eager sigil]

why do f1 cars look so different to each other in the earlier stages of the sport

but now they look relatively the same

is it cos ppl knew more abt aero nowadays or is it cos of regs

or both

[gray linden]

Because during 2022. Alot of people were struggling which proposing. But since Red Bull was not struggling. Everyone decided to copy the red bull design. That included the sidepods

[mossy axle]

What if they removed restrictions altogether

How fast would they go

[gray linden]

Back to the glory days

[gray linden]

What are the technical issue's of venturi tunnels and ground effect

[brazen copper]

yessir

[magic sundial]

nowadays there isnt too much issues because the teams have got them right, but the main issues are porpoising and losing downforce/grip when going over crests. but in the wet, they create alot of spray due to the disturbed air

[onyx niche]

Stiff suspension setups

So stiff that it almost takes out the feeling of the brakes

[hollow kettle]

Im working for a karting team as a mechanic. Im in highschool but i want to use this experience to get higher places. How do i track this so i can put it on my resume. This might be a dumb question idk

[twin cypress]

Document using documents 🥀

[gray linden]

What does the oil pump button do

[eager sigil]

pump oil

unsure but it helps lubricate the engine when starting (as f1 engines rarely start themselves)

do NOT take my word for it

[marble stirrup]

Build evidence. Also, track dates, titles you had if they exist, responsibilities and achievements.
References will be the most useful.

Then frame it to sound useful to whatever you are applying for.

I know this is generic, but is there any specific goal you have in the end, like a career?

[hollow kettle]

Thanks, my goal career is an f1 mechanic

[hollow kettle]

I have a journal where i put: the date, the track location, things i did that day, and new skills i learned. I also take many pics and videos

[marble stirrup]

Ah okay, I can ask some mechanics. I'm back at work tomorrow. I imagine the advice won't be too different. Try and make connections there and see if you can leverage that to get other experience. I know a couple of people at work doing apprenticeships around that area.
Do you plan to do something similar to that or a degree route maybe?

Either way it sounds like you are on the right track.

@hollow kettle also sorry for bad writing my cat is half sat on my shift and control keys

[hollow kettle]

Oh man tysm that means a lot! I plan on taking the degree route possibly taking motorsport engineering at oxford brookes. During my highschool years i plan on doing what im doing right now. Ill try to get myself into higher spots.

[hollow kettle]

Lmao thats alright

[marble stirrup]

Ah nice, I know a couple of people at Merc that did that course.

[hollow kettle]

Oh wow, did they take a masters at another uni? Do u know by chance because i might take masters for motorsport engineering at cranfield after my undergrad

[marble stirrup]

I know a couple of the placement students just did bachelors (I suppose that's probably implicit in the title of the role).

I am pretty sure I have seen a couple of people do the Masters at Cranfield too at Merc, also the MSc from Ox Brookes too. So either way I guess @hollow kettle

[hollow kettle]

Ah alright

[tall wyvern]

Maybe you don’t mean mechanic, but that is massively overkill to be a mechanic

[marble stirrup]

I was thinking the same thing

Those degrees are usually the route to an engineering role. Mechanics don't usually require any degree.

They usually go the apprentice route or just vocational.

[hollow kettle]

Oh, will it be fine if i do the degree?

[hollow kettle]

What should i do instead, my parents kinda want me to go to uni

[marble stirrup]

Fine, yes. Slow you down? Also, yes. Most mechanics I see don't have degrees and at max have a level 3 qualification. I have seen some with a bachelor's in race engineering or motorsport, but it is overkill.

If you want to go to uni anyway, you could aim for an engineering role.

There is a wide range of them. I can answer those questions significantly better since I am an F1 engineer, not a mechanic.

When I say level 3 above I don't mean just A levels, I mean a specific level 3 qualification related to mechanics. Just to clarify

Is there a specific reason you want to be a Mechanic over an engineer?

or something else

[hollow kettle]

I mean i love hands on work, and i have heard their pay is way better than engineer. This is what i have heard so idk

[marble stirrup]

This isn't true. As far as I know, engineers get paid quite a bit more. Especially on the higher end.
And that is after engineers take a pay cut to be in F1 versus other industries, which is the opposite for mechanics.

[hollow kettle]

I’ll take ur word for it, the thing is i have always wanted to be the guy in the pits, i love hands on work

[marble stirrup]

Then go for it. You don't need a degree. There is a guy on youtube called Calum Nicholas that talks about how he became a Pit Mechanic at Redbull.

Probably better to learn from a Mechanic than an engineer on how to become a Mechanic.

I think a level 3 apprenticeship with an F1 team is probably the best way.

@hollow kettle

[hollow kettle]

Thanks will do, how do i get a level 3 apprenticeship?

[marble stirrup]

Each team will have their own way of applying. Just Google it and you can apply or register interest.

https://www.mercedesamgf1.com/careers/apprenticeships

https://careers.williamsf1.com/apprenticeships

https://careers.williamsf1.com/apprenticeships

https://formulacareers.com/job/assembly-technician-apprentice-sept-2025-start/

Some of those deadlines have passed, but there should be more next year.
Also, it should give you a general direction anyway.

@hollow kettle

[hollow kettle]

Thanks so much

[marble stirrup]

ahaha I know the guy in the image that just popped up

no problem

[pallid perch]

can someone tell me how to get the medals like teams

[onyx niche]

you mean roles?

[pallid perch]

Yes @onyx niche

[onyx niche]

.getroles

[paper wing]

How to get roles:

Follow the image below to the left sidebar of Discord to open the roles page and choose which apply to you.

Alternatively, you can follow this link to the correct role channel: id:customize

[pallid perch]

thanks @paper wing '

[hollow kettle]

Just a follow up question. From what I have read, to do the apprenticeship path, I will need to move to the UK during some of my highschool years (I might be wrong). Due to some personal things I MOST LIKELY will not be able to do this. Another reason I want to go down the Uni. route is because I would like to do formula student which I have heard from many people is a very good thing to do. I also plan to do a placement year as shown. So in this case would going to UNI be the better move?

I was watching some Calum Nicholas interviews and he mentioned he went to the national college for motorsport. That is also an option I am wiling to do.

[marble stirrup]

Uni and Formula student is a common path, yes. It’s just usually a path for engineers not mechanics. I don’t see why you couldn’t be a mechanic afterwards though, but you would be spending more time to get there.
I have a question though. Do you want to be a mechanic or do you want to be in pitwall? because you can still be in pitwall as an Engineer.

[hollow kettle]

I would like to be a mechanic

[marble stirrup]

It won’t stop you doing that. It’s just more education than you need. If you want to be an f1 mechanic. You usually need vocational mechanic experience. Which you can get at other jobs, like your karting experience, or from an apprenticeship style experience.

[hollow kettle]

alright good to know, thanks a lot!

[marble stirrup]

No worries

[ashen venture]

Some f1 mechanic told me these buttons do something.. I forgot what they did. Anyone know?

[ashen venture]

@marble stirrup

[pallid escarp]

How did you get a job at a karting team and I’m a bit of the opposite and I don’t really like hands on stuff so is there any roles where it’s more looking at race data and telemetry in a karting team

Working in motorsports is definitely something I want to do in the future and I think engineering/ data analysis is my preference

[hollow kettle]

I mean im going into grade 9. My friend showed me a website of a track near our house that took volunteers for marshaling. When the day came, instead of marshaling we got to work for a team managing the kart. My friend was just like u, he wanted to do exactly what u do. I would reccommend talking to @twin cypress . He might be able to help u because he wants to do the exact same thing

[pallid escarp]

Ah I’m also in year 9 lol

Yeah I’ll shoot a message to your friend

[hollow kettle]

Alright

[marble stirrup]

I think at this stage getting involved in robotics or doing projects with open source telemetry data is the best way to go. Upload to github/ a portfolio website. Then at uni take part in Formula student, if you can do a thesis on the same area. I know a few people who did their thesis with an F1 team.
You might be able to find a data analytics role in a karting team but its more difficult to find generally.

You might be able to join some online sim racing groups. That is probably an easier way to start.
Apart from that make sure your maths / physics / computer science at school is solid.

[pallid escarp]

Alr thanks this is really helpful 😁

[tender mason]

Okay, I was playing F1 2020 and the Vietnam Grand Prix track hurts my head, can someone help me understand it?

I know it's no longer on the calender, but it's....it hurts my head

[gritty mason]

Just

Turn

[placid lion]

.getroles

[paper wing]

How to get roles:

Follow the image below to the left sidebar of Discord to open the roles page and choose which apply to you.

Alternatively, you can follow this link to the correct role channel: id:customize

[atomic ledge]

gng i have a question about the steering wheel, its for a project

which one has more priority, the 3 knobs at the bottom or the Bbal,Bmig,Mid and EB rotaries

[prime mortar]

well they change different things

the knobs at the bottom tend to be powertrain related while the other ones you mentioned tend to be chassis/suspension related

but Bbal, Bmig and the diff gets adjusted the most often

[atomic ledge]

From what i learnt, they use the bb± buttons more than the dial

For finer adjustments

And the dial has mostly preset settings

[inland cobalt]

those buttons on the back can be changed to whatever the driver wants, some examples ive heard of back paddles or buttons like that doing is brake balance or diff presets for different corners, i think someone at merc used one for the overtake button hence why in the f1 games the overtake button is there

[lilac forge]

chat
i have qa question
in monaco 2stop
did anything stop teams from pitting in like first 3 laps consecutively
serve their pitstops then stay out on hard

[topaz lion]

williams have work experience for ages 14-18
but when you fill out the form it says confirm you're over 16

[topaz lion]

nope i guess

this is from monza 2020.

why is williams on a high-downforce setup? is their car really that bad??

[lilac forge]

uhh what are possible disadvantages

or like why it wouldnt work

[topaz lion]

you will be so much more behind

[topaz lion]

i mean you don't even use up your tyres

for only one lap

so it still has life in it

then you have to do so much managment with hard

[lilac forge]

others will have to pit too

🥀

its monaco

[lilac forge]

i guess that

[topaz lion]

then the other reason

[lilac forge]

how long would be the optimal stint

to pull this off

[topaz lion]

i don't know

remember hadjar went for softs

but you have to use up the tyre life

you don't want to be coming back to the pits with life still in the tyres

[topaz lion]

can anyone explain why was williams on a high downforce setup in monza 2020?

[left geode]

The car is possibly that much downforce deficient that they needed to use high wings

That or how Williams was literally at the verge of bankruptcy

[topaz lion]

i mean, they sold williams to dorilton that weekend
i think hrt did this too

but they were on the verge of bankruptcy

[topaz lion]

I analysed Rosberg's steering wheel setting changes during Lap 18 and 19 of the 2014 Bahrain Grand Prix

[crude plover]

Oscar Piastri replaced at Italian Grand Prix with Lando Norris getting new team-mate

Starlet Alex Dunne will race for McLaren for a second time this season in first practice at the Italian Grand Prix as he replaces Oscar Piastri. The 19-year-old will drive the championship-leading MCL39 on Friday at Monza after first getting a taste of Formula One action during practice at the Austrian Grand Prix in June.
Expectations are high surrounding Dunne's potential. He finished the session fourth in the timing charts earlier this summer in Austria. When competing at the Red Bull Ring, where he finished within a tenth of a second of Piastri, he became the first Irish driver to race at a Formula 1 weekend in over 22 years. Dunne, who races for Rodin Motorsport in F2, took to social media to comment on his second F1 outing.

[onyx niche]

BBAL 61 is insane.

i know he was in dirty air

but

[amber kraken]

Hmm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvTFmhyATpE

[lost jungle]

What is the software that's used for creating f1 aero regulation boxes?

[onyx niche]

@tall wyvern

[tall wyvern]

The FIA use NX

3 of the teams use NX and the rest use catia 3dx

[terse brook]

hy

[proven spire]

Hy

[mortal moss]

Thx for the info

[azure wind]

traffic

its hard to pass

other cars will slow down specifically to make sure the early pitters wont have an advantage

[outer hearth]

guys

does anyone know why mclaren in 2013 fell off so bad?

i wasnt watching in 2013 but i was seeing the older f1 years and like

how did they go from winning races to not even getting podiums?

[left geode]

Simple, McLaren did the same thing as Ferrari changing the front suspension from pushrod to pullrod configuration

And some few other stuff as McLaren saw the MP4-27 already reached the roof of performance

[outer hearth]

ooh i see

tyy

[topaz lion]

they did a completely new chasis which did not work

[outer hearth]

okk tyy

[eager sigil]

was there a maximum limit to bank separation in v10 f1 era

is there ever a maximum to bank separation angle

also how large was the effect on performance that car rake had

[lost salmon]

What should I do if after the update I can't do anything in F1, I can't bind anything to the steering wheel or pedals

[zinc bison]

Is the Halo fairing a standardised part?

[quiet mantle]

Pretty much, decreases the negative aero impact the Halo has on the car

[tall wyvern]

No its free within 20mm of the halo

[gray linden]

Could a v8 turbo hybrid work?

[vestal depot]

I'm in the minority of fans that aren't for it but yes it could work

[gray linden]

Could the extra cylinders add extra weight? 🤔

[vestal depot]

That and a V6 is a better fit for current times imo, my preference would be to make them more powerful which probably means higher RPM and less strict fuel flow limits, the ill thought out 2026 regulations are doing the opposite

[gray linden]

Would a v8 turbo hybrid sound alot more different compared to a standard v8 power unit

[vestal depot]

A little bit more turbo and EV wine

But a lot depends on the RPM limit

If they decide to switch do they go back to 18,000 like the 2006-2013 regulations

[sharp lynx]

Car

[gray linden]

At least flat floors are back

[tall wyvern]

A lot less interesting

[wispy creek]

Can anyone remember if the "no changing tyres" rule during red flags is still standing?
I know it was implemented in 2017, but is it active this year?

[gray linden]

How to f1 brakes work exactly

[knotty bluff]

in f124 the game it's allowed

[royal nimbus]

Well, he's talking abt real life

Not the game

[zinc bison]

Do the drivers use a new helmet every race?

[granite shoal]

No I think u can still chane tires

[thorny lance]

they use whatever they want

[zinc bison]

Not necessarily, if a helmet gets struck at all it should be replaced

I'm more curious if replaceing it is mandatory just in case it is compromised

[lime chasm]

maybe this has been asked before, but I want to understand what is up with the C5 tire that as the soft tyre it lasts like ten laps and when it's the medium tire it lasts nearly 40 laps (that too of a really long lap like Baku)

(ping replies appreciated, I have stuff muted)

[raven dock]

It depends, if its still 18000 rpm, and the same fuel type, with the same displacement, yes, but it would be lower displacement, with different fuel, and lower revs because of the higher EP

I've done this for part of my coursework, and figured that 15k was the best rev, fuel is the same as used in an LMP for sustainability, and all together it's a power output of 1004 BHP

987 bhp on a V6

[raven dock]

The rubber gets less Pliable, meaning the softer tyres Hest up more, resulting in faster graining and blistering, to help them sink into the rubber, to gain the most mechanical grip. The faster wear is because it tears small shreds of rubber off the tyre

@lime chasm

[raven dock]

Air gets sucked in through small ports on the insides of the wheel, I think it then gets vortexed around inside a tube around the inside of the wheel, which then results in the brake being cooled. I know it only works in motion, hence the fans when the car is on the grid before the formation lap and stuff

[frosty forge]

Honestly believe that for f1 to have an actual good American driver.. they gotta look into indycar.

[gray linden]

Whos winning, based on machinery and skill. (Pick desired track)

[raven dock]

Based on all three, at almost every track, it'd be hamilton

At Monaco it'd more likely be Hamilton though

But I don't see Hamilton getting too far

[topaz lion]

even in the unrestricted turbo era in the 80s, where you could use as many cylinders as you want, everyone used six cylinders

[topaz lion]

watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ykCdaRzn5g

[storm wind]

Yes, V6 hybrid more of a brr while a Gas Only V6 is a bit of a roar, so expect the same for V8

[storm wind]

Pato is an American citizen but he chooses to race under the Mexican flag

Also for 2026 engines its unpredictable but from what im hearing Ferrari will not be the best engine

[worn blaze]

Fell asleep watching this last night lmao

[topaz lion]

glad it helped! let me know if you want more sleep-inducing f1 technical videos.

but i think these videos are really good at explaining

[worn blaze]

Fr

Most of what I know about f1 currently comes from a video I watch by animageaffs

Animagraffs*

[frosty forge]

But the point is… the United States had good drivers… just not in the f2 and such. Mostly in Indy

[storm wind]

Yeah i agree with you on that

Jak Crawford could replace Alonso at Aston Martin though

[pallid escarp]

What are the dimensions of a rear wing minus the end plates

[pallid escarp]

Woah

We have the same pfp

[storm wind]

When alonso retires i should have clarified

[dense meteor]

.mute 1402812849503469682 scam + racist pronouns

[paper wing]

bvbocon38 muted leannnntimmer indefinitely Reason: scam + racist pronouns.

[long acorn]

Being back the v10s man

[storm wind]

V12s are beautiful imo

V10s and V12s are best sounding F1 cars

I wish they would use v16s or v16 hybrids for shits and giggles

[outer hearth]

now that i think of it

why would they even replace the engines?

i wasn't following f1 when they used v10s or v8s

but like

what were the reasons?

[cinder carbon]

if the new fuel is 100% sustainable why would they not change for a new more demanded engine

[crimson umbra]

messi or ronaldo

[plain tree]

Nobody cares about it here

[plain tree]

I think they eventually will

[cinder carbon]

hope so

[thick spruce]

But sustainable doesn't necessarily mean clean right? Burning more will still pollute more, just not from a finite resource.

Ok my bad, got renewable and sustainable mixed up. So sustainable means no net pollution added when burned, so effectively they can go to whatever engine config they want.

[cinder carbon]

emissions iirc

[storm wind]

Fuel sustainability

Do we know what upgrades Mercedes brought to the car for this weekend?

[worn blaze]

NOT ALONSO

FUCK

[serene sparrow]

And cryastri

[worn blaze]

Alonso rn

[severe thicket]

LMFAOO

[tawny rock]

I am not a car guy
Is it necessary to be a car guy to be an F1 fan

[sterile zinc]

For me no because there is a beginning for all

maybe later you'll become a car guy, who know ?

[waxen mason]

You’ll first be an F1 fan
Then your tastes will become diversified over time

[viral halo]

I'm pretty sure that drivers don't need mechanical knowledge of the car as much as precise feedback. I think the great drivers are good at telling what they want from the car and let the engineers figure out the mechanical part. Some mechanical knowledge is probably necessary, but I think they already know that much

Interesting question tho

I don't see how more mechanical knowledge would hurt the driver's but does one driver really have more knowledge than the other about the engineering bits? I think they are all pretty leveled with how much they know

I think what separates them is that some are really good at describing the behaviour of the car to the engineers and then the engineers know what they want to fix with what feedback was given

So in the case of yuki and Liam. They are both relatively new drivers, yuki has more experience but still. I think checo had a lot of experience and knew exactly what he wanted on a technical level, whereas both liam and yuki struggle with telling the engineers exactly what they want changed

As good of a driver hadjar is, he is also pretty much a rookie. Tsunoda was pretty fast in a vcarb too. Idk it will be fun to see

Yea could be

[remote cave]

Checo fared better until early 2024 which is where RB’s problems started

The whole design philosophy that Horner was pushing was very bad for the drivability of the car and they kinda half payed attention to neweys advice which was a part in him leaving

Ever since Laurent has taken over hes made great strides in improving the driveablity of the car without sacrificing any pace hence why Yuki has improved so much in that time frame as well

Yep pretty much Horner infamously said in an interview mid/late 2024 that he was aware of the problems surrounding the path that RB was heading on when it comes to their car as early as Barcelona 2023 but ignored them “because Max simply kept winning”

[storm wind]

Laurent is much more team oriented

Horner wants to win a race at all costs even if it means ignoring car 2

[civic linden]

Who would you say are engineering buffs on the grid?

I'm thinking Verstappen, Russell, Piastri, Albon, and Sainz

Idk they seem like the smart dudes on the grid

Russell and Piastri in particular give me so much tech nerd vibes

Sainz I see as an engineering buff because he seems to improve every team he goes to

[stuck zenith]

/START

[cunning cypress]

But then why is it that some drivers who have already proved their potential in the past fail to extract performance from a new car when they happen to join a new team.

It should be highly unlikely that Ferrari refused to administer feedback given by Lewis, yet he still seemed to struggle a lot with the car.

He is a 7 times WC and has been driving for a considerable time, it would be lousy to admit that Lewis lacks the know how to understand what he needs in his car, yet he still struggles in Ferrari. What would explain that?

[worn blaze]

Honestly i think alonso is probably pretty experienced and knows a lot about his cars because of the sheer time he's spent in f1s

It's very important to know how what you're driving works
You need to know the limits
The exploits
And how much you can push your Vehicle and which aspects of it
It's the same as pilots learning about aircraft physics

Another good example is learning about aerodynamics in f1, it's similar to that

[vestal depot]

Ground effect has a purpose but it wasn't a sliver bullet like many thought

[worn blaze]

What's the point of ground effect in f1?

I thought you'd want that the least??

[topaz lion]

he did 64.5 also once here

[left geode]

Ground effect was brought back to F1 with the purpose of reducing the outwash (i.e dirty air that comes out of the car) that the previous era of cars had with the overcomplicated bargeboards and elements.
But again, teams improved the cars to a point where they are again producing outwash

[worn blaze]

Even after the ground effect addition?

[left geode]

Pretty much at the late end of this regulation

[worn blaze]

Damn

Why does the fia want to remove outwash?

Promote closer racing?

[topaz lion]

yes

[amber kraken]

Imagine having a V5 engine.

Oh wait...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjnHdBSDm6A

[mortal moss]

Man yoy a long old fan lolll

[reef vigil]

i remember v8 times

[topaz lion]

i remember brm h16 times 🔥

[slow comet]

Dirty air really impacts a car that's in it for too long, loss of downforce, so you struggle to stay close, overheating brakes and engine, removing that allows cars to be much closer

[thorny lance]

in singapore, the two mercs took t1-2-3 in 3rd while everyone else (I think) took 4th; any advantage to being in a lower gear?

if anything, wouldn't the car be more unstable

[storm wind]

I heard they brought upgrades

Possibly something to do with the chassis or suspension that gave them extra stability

[onyx hedge]

Does anyone know here if there are rumours about car development for 2026?

Like which car is being developed more efficiently

And that type of stuff

[main thorn]

You know what is the best car

[near inlet]

I think everyone thinks Mercedes will be the front runners

Lots of hope from Aston considering the Honda engine, the new wind tunnel, and Newey

Apparently Gasly and Briatore belive Alpine could compete for the championship in 2026 or atleast win podiums? Not sure where they’re getting that confidence from

[raven dock]

Have they become their own ferrari fans?

[near inlet]

https://tenor.com/view/ishowspeed-try-not-to-laugh-gif-7682731162751353849

[vestal depot]

Eventually but early on in the ruleset I expect factory teams to have an advantage

That's what happened in 2014

Like I expect McLaren to struggle a little bit despite their competitiveness at the backend of these regulations

[digital pivot]

@vital field

[near inlet]

https://tenor.com/view/skala-ne-ponimat-скаланепонимает-gif-24321732

that makes sense

but yeah i think midfield at max

or a bit like their run in 2021-22

[severe thicket]

hi google 👋

[vital field]

oh nvm that was about the scam

[digital pivot]

yeahs

[lost ravine]

where do i even start with learning about technical stuff about f1??

[marble stirrup]

Depends why you are learning. What is the end goal.

[lost ravine]

Just to learn more about f1

[granite shoal]

i would also like to know this and my end goal is to show off all my knowledge to my invisible friends who could not care less

[lost ravine]

literally

[short ether]

That's the neat part...you don't

[balmy tide]

Can I be helped creating a short list of teams against their car's pros and cons in the current season?

[hushed pewter]

Hey yall, what i gotta do to get role(s) for my favourite driver and team?

[flat sundial]

go to channels & roles

[hushed pewter]

Thanks for your help

[granite shoal]

U never answered

[torn inlet]

Yoi

[real patrol]

2026 regulations could give every team a chance to compete in championship battle if done right

the 50/50 ICE and Motor split put engine on almost the same level for each manufacturer
Assuming the leading lap time is 1:25.00 even if you have a massive disadvantage like your power unit being 1% worse than other teams it could cut from being 0.850ms off the pace to only 0.425 ms off the pace assuming that MGU-K are at the same level (because they are)

It will be about software race on who could nail the programs better and making the most out of their batteries

Since X-mode almost eliminate any advantage any team has on straights it will make aero race even more fair

Plus having less downforce and no more venturi tunnels it means less dirty air and closer racing

It makes the racing gimmicky but hey they made it more fair for each team

Red Bull still has a chance to compete even if the engine switch doesn’t work out and turn out to be subpar

[hushed marsh]

is there a reason as to why some races have the AMG safety car and some have the aston martin one?

[acoustic yew]

so both mercedes AMG and aston martin have a partnership deal with FIA and FOM basically rotates which safety car brand is used.

[inner cliff]

<@&781898349006684170>

[lethal rover]

Can Max Verstappen terminate his Red Bull contract after 2026 or 27 and go to Mercedes?

Because assuming that the 2026 engine projections come true, that is the only way he is winning title numero 6

[worn blaze]

Here's the basic science behind an f1

https://youtu.be/V7707zEX9X4?si=ScPGvdA809Jqd2Fw

You'll need more detailed fluid mechanics for why dirty air happens, why formula one cars are actually shaped that way, how the wings work

What dirty air even is and how low speed aerodynamics work in general

Arguably the coolest part of f1 cars

[void heron]

Does anyone know where I can get information to help me with my extended project qualification

I’m trying to do a (roughly) 5000 word dissertation on how the different components of an f1 car affect speed and performance

[worn blaze]

Source: Wikipedia https://share.google/8GMUPZnk3DSoTugem

This and fluid dynamics plus automobile engineering but I rconn they give sources for that too

[lost ravine]

ty sm brotein shake!

[void heron]

Thank you

[worn blaze]

G

[storm wind]

I assume he has multiple performance based opt outs in his contract

The Mercedes Powertrain looks like a safe bet for him

Really just depends on what Ford and RBPT put out for Max in ‘26

[plucky kettle]

people say mexico is a high downforce circuit but the rear wings dont look any different from cota (which is medium downforce i guess)
left: mexico wings
right: austin wings

[worn blaze]

They're allowed to change wings?

Damn

[plucky kettle]

teams change the load on their rear wings for more/less downforce and drag

monza is a really low downforce track that teams probably would prefer racing without a rear wing while singapore is a high downforce one

[left geode]

RedBull's wing actually looks different

[plain tree]

With the "no wing" hold on yourself a little, they wouldnt be able to take most corners on mozna without the wing

It still creates a lot of downforce even with the lowest setting

[plain tree]

They are before practice sessions, they will change a lot probably by the time quali comes up

[topaz lion]

looks like mexico wing is higher

they use the same wing as hungary in mexico

[left geode]

They use Monaco spec wings

They'll probably change it through the course of the weekend

[pallid escarp]

I always thought it would be pretty cool to design my own f1 car and o was wondering if there’s any tools or like resources that would help do that

[worn blaze]

So they can change the airfoil?

[worn blaze]

Well yeah you can
You use the same software they do

CAD
Computer aided design
I suggest fusion360 or onshape

But if you want pro software I'd go with solidworks

[worn blaze]

Using CAD however means you have zero limits on the design

So you may end up making the design drag inducing so you'll need to research on the airfoils they use and the specifics

It's pretty hard to design low speed aerodynamic vechicles that's usually done by a whole teams and experienced aerosynamciscts,
Not to discourage you but it's very hard and takes very long
Honestly I suck at it too😭

You'll also need cfd analysis programs to work with the aerodynamics

Source: Ansys https://share.google/Odao0Wesh4pkwY0SM

I've never actually worked with CFD so good luck

Here's onshape, it's free and a web software

Source: Onshape https://share.google/FCow5WfsNSJuq35VE

For solidworks and fusion360 you'll have to download em

[worn blaze]

But if you want to design a concept vechicle just for the fun of it then you don't really need to give two shits about aerodynamics and you can just design the body roughly on how the aerodynamics would work in basics and if you want
Test it later and improve it, which is honestly not even nessecary

[pallid escarp]

Alright thank you

[winter palm]

Tip: just eyeball it if you just want it to look cool

Oh wait that’s what the other dude said

[karmic gate]

pictures from cadillac's pre issue 11 2026 car

[marble stirrup]

👀

[green beacon]

A good way to get inspiration and design ideas is to often look at models other people have made online - I’m sure there’s lots of people who have made f1 cars and posted them on websites like grabcad. You can often download the files for free (as long as u don’t use it commercially) and take inspiration from the processes they’ve used :)

[worn blaze]

Why do f1 aft wings look like

And not

Single structure holding it would reduce the drag

It should be more than capable of supporting the aft wings

I guess at the end a single point of failure is really bad because if it breaks your entire wing is gone
Which puts everyone at risk and effectively destroys any chance of continuing
It can bend n flex screwing up the stability

I think

But you'd still reduce weight and drag
And Could obviously work around those disadvantages

[timber forum]

Regulations

[ancient mantle]

Pirelli - MEXICO CITY - PREVIEW

Pirelli - MEXICO CITY - SATURDAY REPORT

Pirelli - MEXICO CITY - POSSIBLE RACE STRATEGIES

Pirelli - MEXICO CITY - RACE SETS

Pirelli - MEXICO CITY - GRIP AT START

Pirelli - MEXICO CITY - Tyre sets available for the RACE

[jagged oxide]

How do I fix this on F1 25

[rocky harbor]

.

☆ 𝐑𝐞𝐝 𝐁𝐮𝐥𝐥 𓄀

[ancient mantle]

Pirelli - MEXICO CITY - RACE

Pirelli - MEXICO CITY - PIT STOPS

more pirelli stuff

[green beacon]

Question on front wing endplates: does anyone know whether they’re used to mitigate or induce vortices? I know endplates on aircraft wings are used to reduce the effect of vortices, so my guess is they’d be used for the same case here, but in CFD simulations of the front wing I often see vortices being generated.

[plucky kettle]

does the skid plank have any other purpose apart from not letting teams run their car too low?

[serene widget]

other than that i dont think so it just makes the cars look cool with the sparks lmao

[shrewd shard]

This shows that this year's cars are the best at managing tyres

[worn blaze]

Yeah they decrease the generation of vortecies but you can't get rid of them completely

Even winglets on aircraft like you said generate vortecies it's just a reduced effect

[green beacon]

I see, thanks. How come you often do see vortices being generated by f1 wings then? Only thing i can think of is that while the endplates reduce the effect of unwanted vortices, other parts of the wing are used to carefully create specific vortices that help with the aerodynamics in some way?

[worn blaze]

Yep that's also very true

[worn blaze]

They purposely use dirty air to deter opponents behind them from closing in

But there's another thibg

[worn blaze]

There's something called slipsstream that youev probably heard of

But incase you haven't
It's when opponents close in on someone and since there's less air resistance behind the cars it gives you more efficiency I think

It doesn't work on corners tho since you decrease the effectiveness of your wings and loose grip

The Dirty(turbulent air) actually has less resistance because it's low pressured

[green beacon]

Haha yeah I’m aware of the slipstream effect but this is a really nice explanation too, you can use to to explain why it’s harder to follow in corners - having turbulent (and as you said, low pressure) air passing over you wings essentially reduces the pressure gradient between the top and bottom surfaces of the wing, leading to a loss of downforce

[fluid scarab]

so you effectively want to be behind a car on straights, but avoid that on corners?

i dont understand slipstreams that much lol

[agile karma]

Pretty much spot on

[fluid scarab]

Good to know lol, idk if that will apply in f1 19 tho

[plain tree]

it should

[green beacon]

Exactly! It’s often hard to avoid being behind the car in the corners if you were behind them on the straights tho, unless you want to compromise ur racing line

[fluid scarab]

thanks!

best way to avoid being behind a car in corners

being first

[plain tree]

real

[primal patrol]

if these cars were awd then would the rear tires have more camber?

since they wouldn't be so depended upon for acceleration

[short ether]

does anyone here use ANSYS?

[tall wyvern]

For fluent or mechanical?

[short ether]

both

is ansys a Nurbs modeling?

[tall wyvern]

No

Spaceclaim is the modeller in Ansys but it’s just a limited cad program

[lost jungle]

Sorry for the dumb question but did the drivers upshift without using the clutch during the 80s? And if they did, was shifting up without engaging the clutch faster than using the clutch?

[worn blaze]

<@&781898349006684170>

[worn blaze]

W mods

[rancid plank]

<@&1004686574044327956>

W

[severe escarp]

Hey guys, I am interested in getting into the Performance engineering field, and I am interested to do some projects related to that to upskill me, and get to know more about the field. Can anyone give any tip or advice or any discord pages, where I can know how to do some projects that will be worth to putting it in CV

[tall wyvern]

Explore how to write a lap sim tool from first principles, starting basic then adding more variables.

[arctic wolf]

Yep

You need downforce on corners

On straights downforce slows you down so its dirty air

[arctic wolf]

Yeah they used clutches to upshift or downshift

Until Williams introduced the sequential gearbox pretty sure

[arctic wolf]

They are to reduce vortices and reduce drag

[fluid scarab]

Thanks

[lost jungle]

So,it would have been slower if they tried to upshift by lifting off the throttle, selecting the next gear and not engaging the clutch?

Alongside it obviously being pretty terrible for the reliability of the transmission

[marble stirrup]

Hi, I am in performance engineering at Mercedes F1 team.
I would say the main skills to have are data science / maths.
Beyond that everything is an extra benefit, e.g. aerodynamics, vehicle dynamics, simulation.

Doing a project is good, but make it high quality. The amount of "F1" projects I see online or people I see apply that have data leakage in their models, or just straight up incorrect outputs is phenomenal.
A good project is a strong signal, but a bad one could be a self-reject.

I would also say that whilst doing the project in an F1 adjacent or related area is good, don't do it at the expense of quality. If you have the opportunity to do a data science, programming or maths/ stats project that is very strong but not F1 related, do that instead.

[arctic wolf]

It was the 80s

Technology was not as good as it is now

[lost jungle]

I was just confused by how people upshift with a h pattern manual transmission without engaging the clutch and wondered if that would be slower than shifting normally with a clutch even if you match the revs correctly (which I suppose would depend on the specific car that you're driving). I also wondered if f1 drivers did this durings eras like the 80s

Which I assumed they wouldn't,

@arctic wolf

[arctic wolf]

Its faster without engaging the clutch

But most drivers in the 80s used clutch

[lost jungle]

So, the clutch is useful for having an increase in reliability?

Also if you're able to match the revs correclty, Do you just not need a clutch?

[arctic wolf]

Yeah

[arctic wolf]

You don't need a clutch if you can match revs correctly

And its faster

Than clutch shiftknf

[lost jungle]

Why didn't the drivers in the 80s just learn to do that? Only because they wanted the transmission to make to the end?

[arctic wolf]

Some did

Overtime the drivers started upshifting by lifting offthrottle slightly

[lost jungle]

Okay

[lost jungle]

So Senna was not using the clutch during this lap?

For upshifts, specifically

https://youtu.be/auXfAHHNSFo?si=N6sjD2RFSBdmezEZ

[arctic wolf]

No

[lost jungle]

He wasn't?

[arctic wolf]

He wasn't using the clutch, no.

[plain tree]

Maybe you don't know the answer for that but i'm interested into getting to the racing field on the production line with cnc machines, currently I'm learning how to use and programme haas and siemens cnc machines. Do you maybe know what i would need to be able to get there?

Sry if i said anything wrong i'm in a rush rn and english is not my 1st language so wrote that rly fast

[topaz lion]

yes they did use the clutch

[lost jungle]

But that was slower right? For upshifts anyway

[topaz lion]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PCU1jdMr3kY

see the above video

[topaz lion]

but you'll kill the gearbox

[lost jungle]

That makes sense, what about in qualifying?

[topaz lion]

i think this lap was from quali

there's another

i can't find it

[topaz lion]

or practice

[lost jungle]

So using the clutch when upshifting wouldn't really make you lose that much time? and you could still be competitive?@topaz lion

[short ether]

@reef gyro

[topaz lion]

i mean it's a small lift

[lost jungle]

Right, so it could be said that it's a matter of how the driver is able to extract the performance, whether the driver is faster while upshifting with or without a clutch?

[timber forum]

What do you mean by that

[lost jungle]

As in, not using the clutch while upshifting with an h pattern shifter isn't all that much faster than just upshifting normally

?

[timber forum]

It isn't really faster

And it's destroying the gearbox

[lost jungle]

Right, It's doesn't really help in reducing laptime and also wears the transmission quite significantly

[timber forum]

Yes

[severe escarp]

Thank you for your reply, I will look into it.
Do you mean the coding means python, MATLAB and are you talking about the data science or data analysis techniques like time domain, frequency fomain analysis, or any machine learning models?
Also are you saying vehicle dynamics and aerodynamics are value added knowledge?

[severe escarp]

Thank you for your inputs, I know some concepts of vehicle dynamics, are you saying to do it in simulink or any other multibody software like ADAMS / VI GRADE?

[thorny lance]

oh hey someone from behind the scenes!

what would you say made the difference today versus somewhere like austin? also I've heard online that antonelli is not nearly as good in the fast corners as he is in the slow corners. is this reflected/proven in data?

[topaz lion]

what were your college degrees?

i'm 14 and i'd like to work in an f1 team one day

[thorny lance]

probably aerospace, materials, or something engineering

or a combination

[marble stirrup]

Unfortunatley, I don't know much about this. Sorry

[marble stirrup]

Python for sure, people use MATLAB but it is being phased out so probably not needed.
Data Science includes data analysis. I mean data science, but of course data analysis skills are needed in order to do data science. ML is good too, you will likely pick up some ML skills via learning data science nowadays.
Vehicle dynamics and aero are always added knowledge. I personally had no experience in either when I joined but it can't hurt to have either.

[marble stirrup]

I cannot answer this question for you at all due to NDAs, sorry.

[marble stirrup]

This question would almost certainly dox me due to my niche. I have a Masters degree and Bachelors in a Computing / Data adjacent area.

[plush spruce]

Now somebody please tell me that there is still chance for Max

[plush spruce]

Congrats on Kimi and Russel

[marble stirrup]

Thanks, super close for Kimi!

[topaz lion]

he's too far back

[plush spruce]

Then we are gonna be 4 time eh.... BLOOODY HELL

Stings more than the FIFA boy being awarded penalties in every match

[ancient mantle]

Pirelli - SÃO PAULO - PREVIEW

Pirelli - SÃO PAULO - FRIDAY REPORT

[boreal viper]

Where can you check this ?

[ancient mantle]

in the image i sent 👍 👍

[uncut echo]

HAMILTON

.

wrong chat

[maiden bobcat]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OwHobp4xPE&t=693s

[tall wyvern]

Big grain of salt.

[open owl]

btw lando's engine is preety used up he took his last engine at monza it has been 6 races and his other components being preety old it could cause a difference of 0.2 to 0.6 sec per lap and 3 races to go mclaren seeing what happened in dutch gp may take a penalty

[plucky kettle]

what teams should perform well in vegas and what teams should perform bad there?

all i know is that mclaren doesnt like vegas and mercedes does

i wanna know mainly about ferrari's and sauber's straight line perfomance

[modern bolt]

Ferrari will bottle it once again but they should be good there

[hardy talon]

alpine should literally just give up

that renault engine will suffer

[native patio]

They should sell the team to Toyota.

That would be the best timeline

Besides BMW of course

[crimson nova]

Is Cadillac developing their engine or are they just gonna relly on another co. for the rest of the time?

[finite perch]

why did kevin magnussen say suck my balls to his teamate im still confused
but i still rspect him beacuse he is danish

[plain tree]

In i think it was 2017, k mag pushed nico out of track in hungary and later in an interview nico said that k mag is the most unsportsmanlike driver, then k mag came up to him and said this line live, they werent teammates at the time but eventually they both started laughing it off

[plain tree]

Correct me if i'm wrong but i think they will be using ferrari PU for 2 years and then they will switch for their own engines

[quiet mantle]

You’re correct, they’ll be taking the Ferrari customer slot left vacant by Sauber for 2 years while they finish engine development

Even then they’ll have to use Ferrari engines until 2029 for the 2 year rule of driving previous cars

[finite perch]

ohh fAIR

[plain tree]

Not sure about the year tho

It was after 2016

[finite perch]

ok

[plain tree]

Before 2020

But i think it was 2017 and nico was in force india

Not sure tho

These were years where i was out of f1

[chilly grotto]

If the SF-25 is such a boat, how is Ferrari 4th in the Constructors’ Championship?

[hardy talon]

championship level drivers

[oak sentinel]

How can things that lack an aerodynamic shape go airborne?

[timber forum]

It was 2017

[timber forum]

Weight

Space

Thickness

Aero as well lmao

[oak sentinel]

Hmm okay thanks

[chilly grotto]

https://youtube.com/shorts/Ixh1FAaykZo?si=SU7beF8eIwx4j2ZS Anyone have thoughts on this.

[honest storm]

project 6 7

[hardy talon]

unreliable tractor

[native patio]

It’s gonna blow up or be down on power

[chilly grotto]

Next year seems to be Aston Martin’s year as Adrian Newey enters a “design trance” where he focuses on nothing but designing the aerodynamics of the AMR26.

I don’t know if Honda will make a good PU, but if they do, watch out, world.

[plain tree]

That doesn't necceserily mean Aston's dominance, there's a lot of other stuff coming together like strategy, drivers, managing, finances and race engineers

So, i made these few custom track changes and i wonder if they could be done irl from a technical pov and if they'd actually improve racing (cuz that's what i aimed at)

(Also i tried to make these changes be possible but im not sure thats why im asking)

[short ether]

jeddah turns 1-3 can but the rest of sector one cant cause theres a small stretch of rad right nect to it sector two its possible mostly

[worn blaze]

Well if you got enough power anything can go airborne

[ebon bloom]

Because mark was too happy

[vestal depot]

As long as you're driving faster than the speed airplanes take off there's always the chance

[plain tree]

You don't need to be faster

There's cases where taking off at 0 kph would be possible

Just need a lot of lift surface and airspeed

Which doesnt mean that you have to be moving

The air around can move instead

[severe trout]

exactly

There are always ways to massively fuck up a car’s aerodynamics.

[sage shoal]

Yeah but their strategy is shit

[worn blaze]

Yeah but in the case of f1s that realistically can't happen

[plain tree]

I mean

You'd need crazy frontal winds

Theoretically possible only in mexico

Realistically nowhere

[hearty smelt]

Guys the champion will be announced after Abu Dhabi gp right?

[hardy talon]

not necessarily

the champion is crowned once all opponents are mathematically out of contention

so if lando is 26 points ahead of the driver whos second in the standings entering abu dhabi he will already be champion

[hearty smelt]

Ooh okay

But if he's not 26 points ahead?

Maybe 24?

[hardy talon]

theoretically if the second placed driver won the race and lando didnt score any points they would win the championship

so even if they are very low

there is still a mathematical chance

and as such the title cannot be claimed before abu dhabi

the title is only secured when the leading driver holds an impossible lead

[hearty smelt]

Ooooh got it got it. Thanks for the clarification 👌

[peak scroll]

So here is the question if 2 McLaren disqualified then George goes p2 and kimi p3? Or just no point for lando and Oscar

[jade ore]

Everyone gets promoted in the classification

[worn blaze]

No I mean the wings generate downforce as soon as they'd hit airflow so if anything that would make it grip the ground better

[plain tree]

I was thinking of racecars in general where if you lift the front it will start generating more lift than df

[worn blaze]

Wdym

[plain tree]

A lot of racecars don't tend to have advanced floor so if it gets lifted off the ground it starts generating more lift than downforce

Like the mercedes clr gt1

When it went over the hill, a lot of floor in the front was off the ground which resulted in it generating more lift than downforce

[worn blaze]

Oh i see

Yeah that's true

[chilly grotto]

Red Bull was weak in Abu Dhabi last year. Why should Max fare better this year?

[west knot]

.mute 1203420674048393218 attempted doxxing of fellow server member

[paper wing]

driven24x7 muted matilde_santos95 indefinitely Reason: attempted doxxing of fellow server member.

[zenith pumice]

guys, technical discussion only here please

[hardy talon]

redbull was also weak in monza and this year it was a rocketship

[tiny sleet]

Max has a big potential as redbull is making a comeback

[worldly ferry]

"As the FIA noted, the breach was unintentional, there was no deliberate attempt to circumvent the regulations, and mitigating circumstances also existed. "

What if it was track issue instead of car issue?

[feral horizon]

Most likely because I doubt Ferrari/Hamilton had bad intentions in China. (As a quick reminder he was DNQ for the same reason.)

[plain tree]

don't want to be that guy but DSQ not a DNQ

[blazing saffron]

^^

[spring silo]

Hiii

[hollow kettle]

I'm not sure if this is the right area to ask this but, I want to work in F1. To help build my profile, I am looking to start a personal project. I already looked into making an electric go kart from scratch, but money is a problem. Are there any projects anyone recommends that would help build my profile and potentially get me some recognition? Thanks

[stuck lynx]

I have ts 🥀

[marble stirrup]

Depends on a lot of things tbh. What role do you want in F1? Are you in school currently, what year? What skills do you have rn? Etc… difficult to answer without knowing what position you are aiming for.

[hollow kettle]

Im trying to keep my options open as im still only in grade 9, but a dream role would be an f1 mechanic. Skills wise I have basic hands on like building skills if that makes sense, but i think i could learn some new ones if its needed for a project

[devout knot]

I've been seeing a bit around F1 and McLaren regarding their suspected cheating, and that McLaren and a few other teams have been using a titanium alloy, that expands when is heated, yet in article 5.3.9 appendix r it says that they "must be made out of a titanium alloy" so how are they cheating if that's in the rules?

[quiet mantle]

Are you referring to the skid blocks? McLaren haven’t cheated so-say, more that they reduced the skid block to below the minimum thickness during a race

[hard pagoda]

if pirelli is mandating only 25 laps on each set for qatar doesn't that completely destroy pit strategy or am i wrong? doesn't seem like any reason to run hards

[quiet mantle]

You still need to run 2 different compounds and despite being a sprint weekend it’s not like they only give you softs and mediums

[tender lagoon]

Not destroy but kinda not much different choices for teams.

[worn blaze]

If you're going specifically for the mechanical part
I'd say start learning how to do CAD and a little bit of coding as well

It's a good starting place for all projects

You don't specifically have to do f1 or automobile related projects

Anything that's related to mechanical engineering helps your portfolio

Infact a more diverse portfolio might be better

[hollow kettle]

Thank you for the advice

[south yacht]

lil graph i made that shows the progression of the points during the season

[distant nebula]

Sorry I enter the engineers pit

[topaz lion]

is CAD hard to learn?

[worn blaze]

Oh no absolutely not

I made the chassis of a car in a week

Super fun

[topaz lion]

what's onshape?

[worn blaze]

It's a cad model

I'd say you start with that

Browser based

[topaz lion]

ok

[worn blaze]

Easy to learn

[topaz lion]

free?

[worn blaze]

Yep

[topaz lion]

oh nice

thanks

[worn blaze]

Just sign up start working and when you're comfortable you can move onto fusion360

Oh and learn coding, physics math chem

All that stuff

Between that you'll start to learn engineering and the way of engineering too

[topaz lion]

i already know python and yeah i'm preparing for physics math and chem

[worn blaze]

Nice

[topaz lion]

i have advanced classes

[worn blaze]

What class are you in

[topaz lion]

grade 9

[worn blaze]

Learn c++ and c

They're the industry standard for embedded systems

And whatever f1 uses

[topaz lion]

it's a bit complicated no?

[worn blaze]

You can also learn fluid dynamics and ansys

[worn blaze]

Actually it's the first language for a lot of people

[topaz lion]

i read that you need to know either python or matlab

[worn blaze]

Both is good tbh

Matlab is a very good software for simulations

Get into that aswell

If you wana go into ts as you probably already know you'll have to be an all rounder instead of focusing on one thing

Thats what mechanical engineering is about

[topaz lion]

ok

thanks

[worn blaze]

Yeah gl

Oh btw how good are you with python

[topaz lion]

ts as in typescript?

[worn blaze]

This

[topaz lion]

i have a website

i can work with databases

[worn blaze]

Typescript isn't useful in mechanical afaik

[worn blaze]

Try to work on more embedded systems and firmware

[topaz lion]

yes more for web development

[worn blaze]

Yeah

It's not nessecary that you end up working for f1
Thats also a reason you need to be able to work with multiple fields across mechanical

Mechanical is a very good major because it's deep aswell as

Large?

[worn blaze]

Also don't forget to look at tutorials

https://youtu.be/2utLjjkXpIg?si=4SB6haqbNTuM1drb

[topaz lion]

i don't know whether i want to go into mech or aerospace engineering

[worn blaze]

Well good news

They're basically the same

So you don't have to make a decision till like

7 years

But that also means you need to focus heavily on fluid mechanics

[worn blaze]

You also seem to be much more software oriented
Are you sure you like classical physics, kinematics and electricity?

And chem

[topaz lion]

and then i plan on doing the masters in motorsport engineering.

and i want to get into the top institution in our country for undergrad with a formula student team.

[worn blaze]

Because doesn't matter which field you pick you can always work in aerospace or mechanical

[topaz lion]

yeah i like doing physics

chem is hard to understand for me

[worn blaze]

Well doesn't matter which one you pick

You have to do mechanical engineering as your bachlors

You can choose to either go into aerospace or into automobile from that point on

For your masters

[worn blaze]

Well you should work on both software and hardware projects

Figure out which one you work with better and follow that

[topaz lion]

ok

of course my first focus is academics but i have lots of free time as well

so

yeah i can explore different things

[worn blaze]

Yeah remember academics is important too

You'll need a good gpa for a good college

Extracurriculars come in later

Plus in college you can actually start working on f1 from the get go since colleges have their own formula one teams

Not one

But formula

[topaz lion]

yeah i want to get into a college with the formula student team

[worn blaze]

Important thing to note
Keep your portfolio diverse

And also that in college the whole academic thing flips

Companies care more about what experience you have than your grades

And definitely look into fluid dynamics
Whichever one you choose
Aero or auto

Fluid dynamics is gonna follow you very closely

[topaz lion]

ok

[worn blaze]

Oh and uh important but of advice

Have humility

Don't be like the mechanical guys we had
There'll always be someone smarter than you

Whatever you do do it quietly
Keep it to yourself and never be opposed to learning

Thats what makes you an engineer
Having the qualities of one

[topaz lion]

i think i'm smart, but i am not smart enough (99%ile).

i am not smart till i get there

[worn blaze]

Yeah learn from my mistakes
Just know you're normal like everybody else

What you do doesn't make you any better

Had to learn that the hard way

Yk the smartest people i know
I wouldn't have even guessed them

[tall wyvern]

Not true, there are bazillions of aerospace bachelors

If you want to do aerodynamics, do aerospace, if you want to do anything else, pick your favourite.

[worn blaze]

Mechanical engineering diversifies your portfolio
A large majority of the people who worked in aerospace themselves have a degree in mechanical

Plus for him

Mechanical as a bachlors makes much more sense

[worn blaze]

Nor is that really a reason to do aerospace

Aerospace is a field of mechanical
Fluid dynamics isn't the whole part

[tall wyvern]

I’m an aerodynamicist. Every aerodynamicist I know has an aerospace degree.

Including me

I would always do aerospace over mechanical to work in aerospace..

[worn blaze]

??? Okay

Can I see your degree?

[worn blaze]

Where do you work?

[worn blaze]

Most of what's covered in bachlors for mechanical aswell as aerospace is the same

[tall wyvern]

..? No?

[tall wyvern]

I work for an F1 team

[tall wyvern]

Module choice is totally different between the two. I wish I could have done mechatronics, for example, but it was only for mechanical and control courses

[unique hamlet]

Can anyone help me with my audio?

[wraith hearth]

(Question from my younger sister)
Okay chat im not good in math like im behind the average 8th grader but i really want to have like an engineering or any other role in f1 (as long as it is not marketing or comms) im not aiming for something specficly but i really like science and i do well in it. Im currently in grade 8, im in my schools robotics club (i literally dont know any coding im just quite the ideas guy) and another club where we bulid a bunch things like benchs etc, id say im pretty good with coming up with designs but not good with the numbers measurements etc. Next year im looking to take AP classes in sci and tech aswell, any suggestions on what i should focus on to bulid skill and experience?

[worthy edge]

Definitely work on understanding basic physics

[compact owl]

im in mechanical (specifically automotive) engineering rn, so heres some tips from my absolutely cooked 2am brain:

first, stick with robotics. It’s literally the best place to start if you want anything to do with engineering or F1 later on

Second, pick ONE thing at a time to learn. Not five. One. You don't want to overload yourself like I did.
Go like this: “okay, im js gonna learn motors first”, then stick to it until you understand how they work, what they need. how they react, etc., then move on. Pick something else basic sensors, ratios, simple coding; whatever you think is easier for the time being.

then comes the boring but lwk important part: get good at the basics of math and physics. you dont need to be a an einstein-level genius. You just need the basics of algebra, ratios, unit conversions, and a lil bit of force/energy stuff later; that’s the foundation for literally everything else.

Next, try to learn some actual tools:
– basic CAD (Fusion 360 or SolidWorks, i recommend SolidWorks)
– basic coding (Python/Arduino C is fine)
– basic shop skills (measure correctly, drill, cut, etc.)

after that, start making and documenting projects. anything counts. Robots, school builds, random things you make at home. Take pics, write down what you fixed, what went wrong, that turns into a nice portfolio, and if you get any failed attempts, when you're older and have better knowledge, you can come back and attempt that idea again

as you get older: take physics, CS, maybe calculus when you’re ready, and any engineering/tech electives your school has In university, join Formula SAE immediately, that’s the closest thing to real motorsport engineering you can get as a student

if you can, also learn a bit of data/sensors later on, because F1 runs heavily on telemetry. Knowing how to read data already puts you in a good spot.

and tbh? that’s it. You keep learning one small thing at a time, keep building stuff, and keep improving your basics. after a few years of that, you suddenly have all the skills that people in motorsport actually look for

Oh god i spent 15 minutes writing this

😭

[worn blaze]

Ts guy bro

This guy gets it

[wraith hearth]

THANK YOU i swear i keep telling my brother the same exact stuff but he dosent want to listen to me 😭🙏

[compact owl]

I messed up A LOT tryna get in this field lol, least i can do is show people how to not mess up like i did

[worn blaze]

I feel ya

I mean I don't not yet, not fully atleast

But I hope you do well ma man

[tall wyvern]

It totally depends on what you actually want to do, there’s no one-size-fits-all

[steep cosmos]

I think it’s funny how 15 years ago the FIA called Kerds and hybrids the future of F1, but now there are engines that are almost 3 seconds off of V10s. Plus, they are also 168kgs heavier.

[sharp juniper]

The future was Electric, Hybrid was a compromise to keep the viewers happy and the manufacturers interested. If it wasn't for the publicity of F1 every manufacturer would have went to Formula E, thats exactly what happened during Formula E's Gen 2 Era.

[steep cosmos]

You have a point

[ebon bloom]

My dream job is to be the guy that pushes the button

[compact owl]

tbf they did say they mostly wanted engineering

[tall wyvern]

Well I mean yes clearly engineering, but the skills for an aero are very different to a vehicle performance engineer with are very different to a CFD methodology engineer.

[karmic gate]

With more development on my 2026 project do I start to find some extream preformece and try to use every gap in the regs I can find

[compact owl]

Fair

[plain tree]

Kinda unrelated but i'm trying to get on the production side of things that's why i'm learning about cnc machines, how to operate and code them

[dry saddle]

do you think by 2050, F1 will have flying cars?

[unkempt summit]

the world will end in 2 weeks

[plain tree]

no

not even by 2200 i think

[brave aurora]

Is FastF1 not used by people anymore? Or is there a separate discord for that?

[signal grove]

How do I watch please

[crystal raptor]

With your eyes

[heady marten]

Yo how do i get the max tag?

[tame sorrel]

ù

[fiery wyvern]

Join MV1 discord server

[scarlet sapphire]

is it really max verstappen s server?

[fiery wyvern]

Idk I’m in it and you can get the tag

I can send you server link in dms if you want

[scarlet sapphire]

yes

@fiery wyvern please send

[amber kraken]

Looks like Ferrari and Mercedes are testing the prototypes of their active aero front wings

[marble stirrup]

It's possible now if they drive them badly enough.

[dry saddle]

you are a performance engineer at merc?

[strong root]

What's this for on the merc (No im not talking about the mirror)

[dry saddle]

looks like something akin to a pitot tube kekw

[green marlin]

Could be a pitot tube modified to measure the speeds of the different layers of air? Uneducated guess

[gray linden]

How would you sum up the w12 from a technical perspective

[marble stirrup]

Yup

[marble stirrup]

A true mystery

[dry saddle]

you do no work at merc, no way

[plain tree]

i think it's for gathering temperature and stuff like that

[worn blaze]

Doubt it
Wouldn't be much different

[ashen prairie]

Guys...
I really wanted to know...
How does one get into the f1 technical stuff.. u guys read books,watch videos....??
Pls guide...

[green marlin]

Fair

[green marlin]

Start with YT videos, F1 have some good tech insider vids, Adrian Newey have a book which apparently is quite good (not read it my self)

[green beacon]

u can find lots of yt videos online, and like the person above me said, reading books helps. it depends what technical area you really want to go into (aerodynamics, chassis/suspension, etc) which you can use to delve deeper into what interests you!

doing an engineering course (if youre not studying something else) also helps with your understanding and imo motivates you to learn more too

[oak sentinel]

In 2026 Ferrari and mercedes well definitely dominate since those regs are similar to the 2014-2021 ones Ferrari mercedes and redbull kinda dominated byt mercedes might dominate more since both regs will use hybrid system tho 2026 will still use v6's sadly

[mystic lily]

https://forms.gle/UAF5qCcRjRCwA5cS8
Hello Everyone, I am a broadcaster and currently conducting a research on Audience Engagement in Formula 1 Broadcasting, Kindly spare 2 mins of your time to fill this form.

[scarlet sapphire]

@jat1n69 this could be a scam?

[slender wagon]

they do :)

[dry saddle]

if i ask them about the mercedes masterplan for 2026, will they answer?

[quiet mantle]

Yeah sure just ask the Mercedes and Red Bull guys to drop team secrets and probably break their NDF’s for a Discord group

[dry saddle]

what is an NDF?

ohh non-disclosure

[lethal rover]

Ok why are ppl confusing Honda and Ford RBPT in terms of who is projected to have the second best engine and the worst engine

[pale parcel]

How would drivers change their front wing with active aero

That needs wiring things no? How would you change that during a pit stop

[plain tree]

Same as the drink which is in the front wing as well, they'd just have 2 sockets (idk the english word for it but i think socket makes you understand what i mean) and they will need to connect them

[wet girder]

oooh good to know

[plain tree]

i mean it's not that hard to make sockets that won't bend or anything, like in a cone shape so it's easier to replace as well

i'm studying electromechanics rn so while i'm only 17 and i don't know that much i know a lot already

[graceful locust]

Which V10 does this sound like? (I tried to make it to sound like early 2000s Ferraris)

[raven dock]

I'm going to MTC tomorrow... should I stuff a car in my bag?

[trail basin]

yep

[quasi aspen]

So I haave a "Championship table" of the turbo hybrid era (201-2025). I've applied negative numbers for the worst finishers (-25 for last, -18 for second last, ect.) Here's the top, and the bottom of the list (DNS do not count)

[winged schooner]

GUYS

I JUST FOUND OUT

PIASTRI CAR NUMBER - FERNANDO CAR NUMBER

81 - 14 = 67

Wait wrong chat

[hallow bobcat]

14 backwards > 41

https://tenor.com/view/brainrot-numbers-67-67-meme-41-41-meme-gif-13335804290814877324

[abstract stone]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DScEs8cDZHQ/?igsh=aGNyMW5tMm9oeHhj 2026 mercedes sound

mercedesamgf1

Coming soon.

Likes

13234

Instagram

[hollow kettle]

what are these things

and what do they do

[tall wyvern]

they inwash the front tyre wake

[worn blaze]

Quick connect and disconnects i assume

Adapters typa thing

[hollow kettle]

And what’s it called?

[tall wyvern]

Floor board is the vertical part, floor foot is the horizontal part underneath

[hollow kettle]

Ty

[gray crypt]

2026 concept very accurate (trust)

[hollow kettle]

I have also heard it being refered to as a Front Floor Edge Vane. is that correct?

[raven dock]

Interesting sidepod design

[gray crypt]

I mean it is a bit diffrent, now I’m not really good with aerodynamics so that might be very bad for areo, I will maybe redo sidepod soon

Maybe

[raven dock]

Personally, I'm taking my 2024 concept, and throwing mercedes logic at it

[gray crypt]

Can I see?

[raven dock]

This is what I came up with back in November 2023

It didn't do a great job, because of how sharp the top and bottom came down, and sort of lifted the center of the car when I finished it

But it looks better than the mule car I'd made for 2022

Like, alot better.

It was to test out the shaping of the bodywork, and how it would get setup, but it looks very different to my 2026 mule

[gray crypt]

Interesting

[raven dock]

I still think the engine cover being smaller, and the fin running right down would work, but I can't be bothered to rebuild that

Currently

[gray crypt]

Yea I also think about redoing whole rear from engincover

[raven dock]

Give the thing some taper

Guide the air to the wing

[tall wyvern]

I mean it’s not incorrect but in the rules it’s called the floor board (and foot), a vane to me would be a more non descript use of space/rules rather than a specific part

[raven dock]

See, to me a vane is a guide for air, as I assume it is to quite a few people

[tall wyvern]

A vane would just be a low aspect ratio winglet

[gray crypt]

Huh?

[gray crypt]

Rear one?

[rare briar]

Is the active aero in the new regs a mode that can be activated anywhere on track or are there detection zones for it similar to DRS? I'm still kinda confused by it.

or is active aero only activated with the new overtake mode?

[gray crypt]

i think its anywhere

[rare briar]

that's sick

[raven dock]

Well, from the fa t that it's active aero, the name would say that it works like a road car, where you hit a certain speed, or a percentage of pressure on the accelerator pedal, and it'll open out

But I'm assuming it also needs detection

Because what would the point be for the race leader to have that

[torpid jackal]

Isn’t active aero a miniature version of drs

[ornate pagoda]

I think so just rear and front wing

[torpid jackal]

Yeah. That’s more like it.

Just battery power is more now so i think active aero will be less effective than DRS

Cars are smaller so overtaking will become lil easy for circuits like monaco

[ornate pagoda]

They will probably still struggle lets be real

[outer pelican]

Kinda

But unlike DRS you can use it at all times

Besides

The front wing will also have it

And the X and Y wings will not help overtaking since they can be used without a condition

[rough mirage]

ALBUM NOVO NA PISTA

https://open.spotify.com/intl-pt/album/5PBFItQTKnYKKMgBDqtwrB?si=q7CgiTx-Qk2vWB9DqfIldw

[worn hawk]

How badly will the new 2026 cars struggle at high-speed tracks like Monza, Vegas, maybe even Spa. The 50-50 split makes it seem like the battery will run out of energy by the end of a straight and the recharge won't be effective enough

You'll be essentially a sitting duck

[plain tree]

They're introducing a split betweem long straight tracks and high downforce tracks, and om the long straight ones the energy usage for a lap won't be 4 MJ but will be lower instead (correct me on exact numbers if i'm wrong)

So that way while you're still gonna be a sitting duck on the same lap, you won't use up all the energy

[scenic root]

I was wondering, with the 2026 regs you have these bargeboards behind the wheels with quite sharp edges. Since that is a common place for contact with other cars' tires, isn't it just asking for punctures? or am I imagining them as way too sharp edges that won't turn out sharp at all.

[leaden spade]

Can anyone help me with a downforce problem? Not F1 related but I don’t know what I’m doing

[shrewd knoll]

I may be able to help.

[leaden spade]

Hey Kesler, thanks! I have a bmw z4 and I’m doing a death kart build on it, it’s projected weight is 2000 pounds and it’s projected hp is 600 that’s like a 3.3lb/hp so I think I need areo but I’m not really sure, despite it being a death kart I don’t really want to die. Cause the lb/hp is similar to lmp3 I figured 1500lbs of DF would be good, but I really don’t know crap about floors or diffusers and one thing I read said id need like 2 Venturi tunnels and a ride height of 70mm for street and 50mm for track. It also said I’d get 900pounds out of the floor. I don’t know if this information is false or if 500lbs DF out of a rear wing would be enough

Also if I’m running like 1500lbs of DF I’d need like 3x stiffer than stock springs right?

[tall wyvern]

Read this https://www.amazon.co.uk/Modifying-Aerodynamics-Your-Road-SpeedPro/dp/1787112837

Don’t listen to people on the internet when you could literally die if they’re wrong, which they probably will be

[leaden spade]

Thanks, I’ll also talk to a engineer

I just want to understand it

It isn’t really a road car atp…..

[tall wyvern]

I’m an aerodynamicist and I wouldn’t be giving advice without a lot more information haha

[leaden spade]

My sisters brother in law is a engineer and his wife is a physicist who works for Lockheed, I’ll invite them over for dinner

[tall wyvern]

For example downforce is a function of ride height and speed, so at what speed do you mean?

[leaden spade]

1395lbs @150mph

45%f/55%r @150

Ride height 40mm front 45mm rear static

[tall wyvern]

Why did you pick 150mph? Why did you pick those ride heights?

[storm wind]

they are trying to make it more about strategy

[worn hawk]

So Ferrari is cooked

[leaden spade]

💀I asked a few other servers

[shrewd knoll]

Sorry i did not respond lol I fell asleep, did you get an answer you were looking for?

[leaden spade]

Yep, go to a professional 🥲

[lunar crow]

What do you think about this year's engine regulations, which RB and Merc have found loopholes in?

[cyan badge]

https://x.com/FDataAnalysis/status/2005271093578215923?s=20

Formula Data Analysis (@FDataAnalysis)

Confused about the 2026 engine & aero rules? 🤔
Can't miss my simulation-driven breakdown!💡
(And discover why the power drop off prevents them from exceeding 400 km/h!)

⬛️Internal Combustion Engine (ICE): 620 kW ('25) → 400 kW ('26)
🟦ERS: 120 kW ('25) → 350 kW ('26)
However,

X · Dec 28, 2025, 1:34 PM

[worn hawk]

Thanks Gustavo

[mortal grove]

how realistic would this track design be? green is the racing line, although it wasn't thought on that deeply. i read all the track design regulations and this follows them to my knowledge (haven't yet decided track length) but i'm curious as to how realistic my little late night idea is

[mint arch]

Clockwise or anti clockwise?

[mortal grove]

anticlockwise

[mint arch]

and where is start/finish

[mortal grove]

not decided, but i think on the long straight in the top left

[west birch]

yo so i just bought apple tv im in the us do i need to buy f1 tv aswell just to watch f1??

[mortal grove]

you can also use skysports or espn no? youtube tv also has it but f1tv is the best prospect with all its options in my opinion

[mint arch]

it looks ok but very short, theres not really enough space for overtaking (the first sector ish looks horrible for that), i think if it was longer with more turns and overtaking spots it would be better