f1-technical

[drowsy nacelle]

If you guys are talking about rear tires having diff degradation, yes you are right. Can locking the differencial reduce this diff? On a straight you mean? Because on a straight it kind of acts like a locked diff? At Corners? Cornering will become tough with the car sliding because the tire which has to cover more distance will not be able to

Variable wing adjustment, exactly why flexibility of the wings is banned (after some extent)

High speeds > need now drag > wing flexes/ bends to reduce front area of the car approaching the air and reducing drag > ability to approach higher straight line speed. At low speeds, the wing doesn't bend much providing the downforce to take corners at higher speeds

Some car maker was exploiting this, I just have a poor memory. Maybe someone can shed more light along these lines.

[hoary patrol]

I see

Yeah it makes sense, why you would want drag on the staright and at high speed corners

But now in the corners that would be a different case

[drowsy nacelle]

Less drag on the straights and high downforce on corners

[hoary patrol]

But then again how a team like redbull gets out having the best car while other teams struggle

[drowsy nacelle]

Variable suspension does this as well

[drowsy nacelle]

Hail the king

[hoary patrol]

Is it because of chassis

[drowsy nacelle]

Umm I am not following the latest season that technically, from what I have heard, some side pod magic is in play

[hoary patrol]

I see

Side pod magic hum....mercedes tried some magic with that and look how they ended up

I heard its because of the rake as well

That the regs benefit more the redbull car philosophy than mercedes one

[drowsy nacelle]

I see it the other way around :)

RB found a way around the new regs which Merc / Ferrari have failed to do

[hoary patrol]

True

[drowsy nacelle]

But they will catch up

Copium is strong withLegreg

[hoary patrol]

Hopefully so

Lmao

Honestly he is good but idont think he is in quite the same caliber as verstappen

I think russell is closer to him than leclerc

Especially with the mistakes he commited in 2022

When sometimes he pushes too hard and ends up making those mistakes

[drowsy nacelle]

We don't talk about Ferrari's mistakes here

We have a dedicated meme channel for that

[hoary patrol]

Lol...

Not even mentioning mistakes of the team

But there were moments like imola, france where he could have won or stayed in a better position and then he ckmmited a mitake

[drowsy nacelle]

Before there was Leclerc there was "whose name should not be said". It pains me lol.

[hoary patrol]

I dont know who is this guy you mentioned l, but when i said that somewhere people told me i should watch more f1 or something like that, as if i didnt understand the sport

[amber kraken]

Gotta love the sounds of the high revving engines
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyEBQueIUmA

[edgy anchor]

Driver61 has always frustrated me man

And stuff he says is usually okay, usually what he misses out makes all the difference, but even in this video he mentions that the V12's didn't get to the same rpm because of their rotating mass which is an outright lie

He tries to explain why the V10 sounds like it does by saying it's a V10 lol even tho it's like... A beautiful example of the Harmonic Sequence

He's confusing V10 stats with latter V8 stats including using it to bait the title

He says the Rev limits came down to 17 which they didn't they stayed at 18

He notes that part of the cost was due to resonant frequency check which the V8's had worse

He brings up the initial success with Renault with V10's, with a simple explanation of Pneumatic valves, yet doesn't explain that those two go hand in hand as Renault pioneered that in 86, he doesn't explain that Honda found their groove first, he doesn't explain that V12's lost out due to fuel consumption for power useage

It's infuriating

I DIDN'T even mention that He claims that Ford stuck Faithful with the V8

This isn't True either

They wanted to use a V12, named the VB, for Bentton in 1992 which was deferred to 93 and unfortunately had an inherent crank weakness

[zinc bison]

What was the idea behind banning shark gills in the 2009 regulations?

[silent heron]

From what I’ve found, there used to be a rule in 2008 where engines were required to last 3 races or the driver would incur in a penalty. This rule was dropped for 2009 where the drivers now had a total of 8 engines to be used over the season in whatever order they wished. This meant the drivers could have engines last less (8 engines per 17 events) which means there was less need for durability.
Given this I assume they banned shark gills because the extra cooling was unnecessary.

I've also read that the louvers help energize the boundary layer which keeps the flow attached for longer. This is good aerodynamics wise, but I don't understand why they would ban it.

[civic fern]

the gills on the side are meant for both cooling and aero. they essentially function like slot gaps in a multi-element wing -

• which function like this

[tepid plover]

bathtub 🛁

[civic fern]

the high energy air on the pressure size energizes the boundary layer on the suction side (low energy), which promotes flow attachment

the difference between the wing and the cooling ducts on the side structure is that the air on the wing is coming from the same source, freestream (outside air coming straight in) while on the side structure the low energy side is freestream while the high energy air is from inside the car

these days they primarily use them to keep the air attached to the structure rather than just cooling. the black gills on the Bahrain W13 are just meant to keep the flow attached to the car because the "no pod" has a much sharper angle downwards than the original sidepod, which didn't require it to stay attached

[tall wyvern]

this is a common myth, there are 5 ways that multielement wings increase lift, but that's not one of them.

[amber kraken]

"If you imagine how it would feel driving your road car with the front wheels beneath your legs approaching a roundabout"

So it feels like having the brake bias all the way to the front of the car and much more
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hva-fN6Ur3U

[civic fern]

energizing the boundary layer itself doesn't do anything, the flow staying attached means a more effective angle of attack for the entire wing and more acceleration

[tall wyvern]

yes but it's not what a multi element wing does, read High Lift Aerodynamics by AMO Smith and be amazed (i was)

[civic fern]

I'll put it on the list

[tall wyvern]

put it at number one on the list, it's very important

and it's only a paper so you can do it in a day easily

[civic fern]

oh?

I'll read it when i get a chance

[primal lantern]

from what I'm getting, it's more of a kinematics thing

mainly to give a sense of yaw and placement of the front wheels

there isn't any really sizable research papers I can find, but the design of where a driver sits—and how far away they are from the front wheels—has some sort of sweet spot

this sweet spot has a bit of biases depending on the comfort of the driver, but from some of the designs of F1 cars I've seen they all stay within this relative range away from the front wheels

[tall wyvern]

yep massively

[short ether]

Does anyone know where I can learn about the technicalities of how an f1 car works but in a lot of depth

Maybe watch these tech episodes F1 has once in a while on YT??

Idk of that really helps though

F1 Tech Talk it's named

Yea I’ve seen those but that’s more like aero and stuff isn’t it? I was wondering more about the internals of the car and how they differ from a normal car

Oh like that uhm idk than I'm not a big tech guy

Oh

I'm sorry i think you gotta wait for the big tech guys

Hehe np thanks anyways

Np

[fierce crag]

Does any track this year using C0 tyre like super duper hard

[severe knoll]

nope

c1 is the hardest

or actually i may be wrong

[blazing saffron]

bruh there's a C0 what

why not have them be named C1 to 6

[severe knoll]

i guess they're like that

idk

[craggy moon]

Wait so the c5 is new?

[edgy anchor]

https://www.grandprixengines.co.uk/

A biggie for me funnily enough is some of the most simple things which're cutaway drawings

https://images.ctfassets.net/1fvlg6xqnm65/6bVFVhLHewv1gvYNS5H6ws/0a65579360d11ea5d585567f5fd43792/MQ7-0-image-20191104195321-3_4252.jpg

Or stuff like this, people like Giorgio Piola, or Craig Scarborough/Scarbs

https://images.hgmsites.net/hug/sauber-f1-race-car-cutaway-diagram_100396996_h.jpg

https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/hmt-forum/alfa_romeo_formula_one_car_cutaway1_fullsize.jpg

https://www.homemadetools.net/forum/alfa-romeo-formula-one-car-cutaway-photos-76372

[grand eagle]

The C1's the new tire

[zinc smelt]

The "new" C0 is the old C1. The new C1 is inbetween last years C1 and C2.

[proper mantle]

What does F1 Media uses to manage their TV feed graphics?

How do they animate that side bar switch when a driver changes position for example?

[amber kraken]

So what I'm getting is that Oscar has a similar adaptive driving style to Lando's in order to drive the McLarens "effectively"

Anybody else can further clarify this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foD-hn9F95o

[primal lantern]

Basically, a thing that hurts Ricciardo is that he prefers "pointy" cars. These were attributes of the Renaults and Red Bulls that Ricciardo drove, but not so much with the McLarens which had weaker dynamics. While it was okay in the 2021 season, 2022 sucked with brake issues and failure to get decent front grip. Lando was able to adapt and utilize this new platform pretty well, but Ricciardo suffered since it wasn't his preferred setup and therefore caused him to be unconfident in his abilities with the car.

Oscar Piastri solves this issue since he doesn't have a strong preference and can instead focus on maximizing his abilities in a different platform similar to Lando Norris.

[cold garnet]

So the Mclaren is not very responsive,or is it understeery

Lazy in the corners

[cold garnet]

Nice question

[cold garnet]

I want to brake into a corner,trail braking,should i use all my leg strength to push the brake pedal forwards(cuz else it wont move)and then slowly release,or is it like a normal car where you just tap on the brake to the maximum and the car takes maximum braking action

In an f1 car

In a road car you dont need leg strength to push the brake pedal,do you need leg strength to do it in an f1 car

[primal lantern]

Understeery

[primal lantern]

Trail-braking's process in an F1 car is going to be the same as a road car, but the general thing is that F1 drivers get back on the throttle a lot sooner than road cars or lower downforce Formula cars.

Now the brakes are harder to press than regular road cars, but the levels that F1 drivers are exercising for will make it so they'll actually be able to control that brake pedal pressure rather well

[severe knoll]

stupid question

what if you were using trail-braking while having a senna-type driving style

[primal lantern]

Such a technique wouldn't work today since F1's driving techniques have always been on improving the smoothness of your driving and such would be very difficult with the sudden pushes and throttle feathering of the pedal. The main benefit of the pedal would be to control wheel-spin, but it'd make the car a little jittery if we're assuming the car has good race car dynamics.

[cold garnet]

Makes sence,makes you wonder how strong these f1 drivers are,since they are able to regulate how much brake pressure they wanna apply on the brake pedal,ifs a very hard thing imo

Since the brake pedal is heavy

[primal lantern]

Yeah they're trained athletes with body structures very similar to fighter pilots or football athletes

[cold garnet]

Makes so much sence,thankss

[deft burrow]

I think that's just on corner entry, very often do you see Lando make a micro adjustment shortly after entering the corner, to get the rotation he needs.

I believe this was most noticeable to Ricciardo in Imola and Hungary

[primal lantern]

Yeah the understeer is most notable upon corner entry and then the car sorta corrects its capabilities for corner exit

but the corner entry part is the main focus of what separates Lando's adaptation from Ricciardo and shows that Ricciardo's weakness is shit corner entry

[agile raven]

Though when there is enough front downforce he is pretty good

[primal lantern]

it sorta helps

[midnight viper]

Ive got a problem with my steering wheel, when Im driving I cant go trough the MFD menu

Even though I have the correct controls for it

[civic fern]

This is why it would be interesting to see Lando outside of a McLaren

Like in a Red Bull

Would he maintain the same levels of performance, or suffer the same things Ricciardo (and Vettel before him) did

Max out of a Red Bull as well

[sweet tree]

Lando seriously needs a better car

i hope either Mclaren pulls it together or he gets a seat with a higher team

[primal lantern]

Max definitely can handle cars outside of his range of taste. we saw this happen during the early seasons of F1 in 2022 where the dynamics of the car were less comfortable for him and still in favor of Checo's capabilities

for about 5 races we saw that Max could handle the car really well despite the setbacks and only started making it a rocket when it came to proper dynamics of which he felt the most suited for

[silent heron]

#f1-games

[primal lantern]

Lando might be able to pull off more exceptional results but not to the level that Max is showing off (from our look at the performances)

[short ether]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[primal lantern]

exhaust gases are blown through the diffuser which creates an artificial movement of air below the car

this artificial movement of air is a low pressure zone which basically helps suck the car to the ground and also does things that a diffuser would normally do when travelling at high speeds

the only downside is that you can only activate this while on throttle which is tricky for some people to learn because holding throttle while in the middle of a turn to gain downforce is weird

[amber kraken]

It still surprises me that Yuki's DRS managed to get one half stuck up at Baku last year. Was that a hydraulic problem, if the DRS uses hydraulics to open and close, or an electrical issue that caused this issue?

[primal lantern]

it's more of a body part issue

the part of the wing that was still attached to the DRS mechanism was functioning properly throughout the race

the issue came when the flap had to deal with a high amount of air pressure that is common for Baku

I'm guessing some sort of crack within the flap started to worsen and eventually split the flap in two due to the amount of force the flap has to overcome every time it opens

[merry delta]

good old fatigue

and since carbon is not like steel/iron, fatigue will eventually break the part, and like how Chorizo said, it most likely was a crack that started it

[primal lantern]

So I've been kind of taking a look at what many analysts are saying about the Red Bull system, specifically suspension, in order to stabilize the aero package as a whole.

One of the things I'm noticing is that Newey seems to have designed the car in a way that allows them to prevent a good amount of dive when braking. This prevention of dive makes the car feel "flat" which is something that can stabilize performance since not much is changing to the floor of the car.

This is something that might be seen in the front suspension only for which Aston Martin might also be utilizing in order to prevent dive in their car as well (considering they manufacture the front end of the car while Mercedes supplies rear suspension).

You can also notice that the overall package of the Red Bull is designed to prevent a lot of leaning when taking corners so the car—in a lot of situations—just feels like it's flat

Weight transfer is still going to happen, but the car isn't leaning a whole lot. This "anti-dive" system as a whole seems to be related to both front and rear suspension, but for right now I will focus on the front suspension.

The inclination of the wishbones of the front suspension is peculiar, as their extension intersects just below the centre of mass. This way, only a part of the load transfer produces pitch.

It may be possible for an individual engineer to work out how the "anti-dive" system works, but they'd need to grab numbers of Center of Gravity for which RBR will not cough up so easily

Now you can't just slap in this system and call it a day, else every team would be doing it

The issue is that it increases the weight of the suspension components due to higher forces being dealt with

And drivers expect to have some level of dive when braking so if they don't feel that then it removes driver feedback

Driver feedback is crucial to getting performance out, I've talked about it before in relation to weight vs feedback

Anyways, that's all I've found from my time looking at the car and I won't be surprised if more shit comes about as teams prepare to apply this in for a stable aero package

oh and for anyone becoming a Formula SAE student, it is entirely possible and recommended to apply "anti-dive" to your car if you can do that

[tall wyvern]

nice idea but wrong, something people seem to have latched onto just like the 'double drs' thing. suspension elements are completely aero dominated. anti- suspension is thoroughly understood by all the teams, and they build in the amount they need for their car.

[primal lantern]

I mean Autosport also points out a similar thing, and F1DataAnalysis—a suspension engineer—agrees that such is the case for the Red Bull here

And again it's only part of the equation

So you are correct there are other things to check out

but this system does provide a significant level of control for the engineers

[tall wyvern]

autosport also reported that heave springs were banned (wrong). formula student is not aero dominated like f1 is, everything in f1 is governed by aerodynamics. his experience in formula student does not translate.

[primal lantern]

I think you're mistaking the article's point for heave springs

the heave spring still exists, it's just all mechanical and not hydraulic

in the Autosport article they state this would be banned for "simplification reasons" which F1's website states is correct

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.tech-tuesday-how-2022s-suspension-overhaul-could-shuffle-the-competitive.4PoTMQ9jbaWotbTdd4bp8j.html

Hydraulic actuation of any kind is now banned, meaning that the big heave spring used to maintain vertical load on the car must now be mechanical.

[tall wyvern]

lol not at all

• heave springs aren't banned
• heave springs aren't inerters

[primal lantern]

Oh that one, yeah Autosport gets that shit wrong sometimes and I will be clear that they can sometimes say bullshit

but even then, the anti-dive still is clear with engineers and analysts that point at this

[tall wyvern]

no actual f1 engineers do

[primal lantern]

hell even Mercedes said they were interested in the front end system

I'll pull that one up

[tall wyvern]

f1 engineers are not thinking 'ah damn why didn't we think of anti dive', they already know. same with 'double drs'. wing interaction is like the most basic thing for aerodynamicists to know.

[primal lantern]

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel-1/red-bull-geheimnis-f1-testfahrten-bahrain-2023/

[primal lantern]

they know of its existence

they still want to look because they want to see how such can be implemented so cleanly

as I've stated earlier, implementation of anti-dive suspension is complicated due to weight, feedback, and aero as you've stated

[tall wyvern]

it's all aero. anti- suspension is too well understood as a concept.

[primal lantern]

well yeah the aero is still crucial

I'm agreeing with you there

the problem is that there's still some extra vehicle dynamics you have to worry about noting the dive and roll and whatever else

the fact that the Red Bull can have the handling properties of stiffer suspension while having the compression and rebound concepts of softer suspension, honestly quite incredible

and it's something that the engineers of many teams are going to be looking at in regards to how to implement it especially with how Aston Martin seems to be the second team to do so at a good level

[cold garnet]

Can someone explain from a biological point of view what happens to your body while driving an F1 car with The G forces(how they make a driver feel,where do they act most like on the neck,abs,etc)

[short ether]

Thank you for this

Is there any f1 tech or developments that can be applied to offroad cars?
I know it’s a weird question

[edgy anchor]

Yes? In terms of aero I guess but like... I guess the same knowledge apllies for different executions like for example Trophy Trucks have 24" suspension travels

https://scontent-man2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.18172-8/10520698_419762681537590_1185357866854614816_o.jpg?stp=cp0_dst-jpg_e15_fr_q65&_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=2d5d41&efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&_nc_ohc=8BWQgvRj3t0AX8NJbpC&_nc_ht=scontent-man2-1.xx&oh=00_AfAkCeqXm8mqzc0PTtksVQog_Jya0O_WPs-_bip5__FXhw&oe=646A5C39

But you can see the Geometry, with Wishbones and tie rods, mounted to to your gearbox, running those struts like pushrods

[primal lantern]

Basically when a G-force is applied the more it'll try and push to the direction the force is trying to go. At certain points the force will be so great that your heart physically cannot pump blood quick enough causing you to start blacking out.

Luckily, F1 cars don't hit super high Gs very often and not for long enough periods so your body eventually returns to normal maybe with a stronger heartbeat

also breathing becomes more difficult, there's a flawless radio message where Lewis Hamilton can be heard literally panting due to the intensity of the race

[edgy anchor]

For more elaboration, usuallly the force is Lateral or longitudinal, so the force just shifts the blood around the body foward or sideways so it doesn't really affect perception much apart from the pressure on the face/eyes that could be from heavy braking zones

However if you go across the pond to Texas Motor Speedway for CART's attempt in 2001, you had the race cancelled as you had a 5.8G vector of 5 lateral G and 3 Vertical G as Texas wasquite the rapid 1.44mi Oval with 24 degree banks which wasn't big enough to give recovery time or to have laarge Turn radii

[primal lantern]

yeah

also the drivers are trained athletes with builds similar to fighter pilots, if you stuck a normal ass dude into the cockpit of an F1 car they'd have a hard time both controlling the brake pedal and the force exerted upon turns lol

[edgy anchor]

Unless you were some of the youngest/fittest on the grid or an outlier,, drivers were passing out at speeds akin to the 2 milers' in 2000 despite a boost reduction which swipped 80 or so hp

[primal lantern]

if you want to have the chance of handling an F1 car, I recommend doing neck workouts

the more pounds you can handle on the neck, the better

[edgy anchor]

https://www.dmarge.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/verstappen-lean.jpg

[edgy anchor]

Some of the workouts are legit just one of your squad grabbing a head/neck brace by straps at the side and YANKing that sucker while you resist the force

https://media.formula1.com/image/upload/f_auto/q_auto/v1681470179/mick-schumacher-garage.png

There's a reason Mick's neck's bigger than his jaw

[primal lantern]

that or having a machine do it

but regardless, if you want to be prepared for the day you're randomly asked to drive an F1 car, I recommend getting a neck workout done

you'll be blessed with powers beyond comprehension if you do that

[edgy anchor]

And don't do the neck roll on the floor or whatever that's how you end up with fused vertebrae

[primal lantern]

so true

I wonder if F1 could possibly consider the application of an active diffuser for the new car similar to that of the Koenigsegg RAW concept

the general premise with the Koenigsegg is that the contracted diffuser could provide better downforce with an expanded diffuser doing superior drag reduction and top speed

so maybe this could be a considered option for F1 as a means of reducing reliance on the wing?

maybe an active aero consideration for 2026?

my only wonder is how they will deal with "tire squirt" for a variable diffuser design and how an F1 car could utilize different levels of contraction and expansion in the diffuser for turns

would it end up like the Williams' active suspension and basically be able to predict how it should operate?

it would also influence the design of sidepods since most sidepods are designed with a fixed diffuser in mind and an active diffuser would need to solve some different issues of how to control air around it

it's a lot of interesting quirks relating to a new concept

[edgy anchor]

I'd just prefer they go to active suspension first off... And if they want active aero, give active aero, not DRS. If not, keep it static bwoah

[primal lantern]

okay here's my pitch

spec series

with active aero

and active suspension

[tall wyvern]

Other way round

[primal lantern]

No. The main reason why the contracted diffuser would be a strong method of downforce production, to an extent, is that the contracted space would follow the venturi effect, causing air to move at a greater speed and creating a lower pressure zone.

With an opened up diffuser, the air wouldn't move as fast based on the venturi effect, but it would reduce the turbulent wake that is present behind the race car

[tall wyvern]

Except that’s not what the diffuser does, that’s what the throat does. The diffuser is the exact opposite. The bigger the diffuser, the more downforce

A bigger diffuser causes more drag because of the x direction component of the low pressure vortices in the diffuser. The diffuser isn’t there to generate downforce, it’s there to suck air through the floor, which is the actual downforce generating part.

[primal lantern]

yes, the production of downforce is done because of the movement of air

as I stated, the contracted flow would create a lower pressure via the faster moving air molecules

[tall wyvern]

At the lowest point, not in the diffuser

A diffuser literally means something that slows air down.

The whole point is that the diffuser decelerates the air to recover the pressure drop in the floor back up to close to atmospheric pressure.

[primal lantern]

You'll need to explain then what you define as diffuser and throat of the race car. From my definition of diffuser, I'm specifically talking about this whole section of a car.

[edgy anchor]

Yeah you expand the diffuser for more downforce bruh

The throat is the Choke point in the middle

[tall wyvern]

The steeper the diffuser angle, aka the bigger the diffuser, the longer the floor stays close to the ground, the longer the low pressure area. As soon as the floor starts to lift, you’re losing downforce because you’re recovering the pressure. The greater the ratio between the diffuser exit and the diffuser inlet (the throat), the more air is pumped through the floor. Aka the bigger the diffuser, the more downforce.

[primal lantern]

ah

I see where I made my mistake

So then why does a smaller, contracted diffuser then now produce an opposite effect to a larger, expanded diffuser?

[edgy anchor]

Wdym by that?

[primal lantern]

beam wing stated that the opposite of my case was happening

this is what caused the whole discussion

but I mistakenly assumed that the larger diffuser would lower downforce in return for reduced drag due to less turbulent flow behind the car

while a contracted diffuser would improve downforce

there has to be some technical reason that Koenigsegg decided to take upon utilization of the variable diffuser in the RAW concept since the company has always been interested in pushing out new technologies and ideas

[edgy anchor]

Where does things say that about this car?

[primal lantern]

here

[edgy anchor]

No

[primal lantern]

unless this diffuser concept itself is the throat and not actually doing anything to try and slow air to return it to atmospheric pressure

[edgy anchor]

Where did you get it from that the diffuser expansion makes less downforce?

who lied to you?

[primal lantern]

no one lied to me

I just mistakenly assumed

[tall wyvern]

The point is that the air exiting the diffuser has recovered as much pressure as possible, in other words, the air has been decelerated back to freestream conditions. The bigger the expansion, the more the air is decelerated. Otherwise the back pressure of the atmosphere pushes against the air under the floor.

Point 2 is that the mass entering the floor has to be the same as the mass exiting the diffuser. This is density x velocity x area. Thus the greater the exit area, the greater the velocity at the throat, because density is constant.

[edgy anchor]

That's...

I mean kinda? The more expansion you have, the more pressure reduction you have because it requires more flow to fill it?

Sorry you're probably qualified in aero what am I on about

[tall wyvern]

That’s the same thing as continuity yeah

[edgy anchor]

I'm surprised that a diffuser slows down flow that much considering it's constantly expanding and you can't fill that flow anywhere but from the throat

[primal lantern]

some smart guy figured out how to do it years ago and we've been improving his design ever since

[edgy anchor]

Oh cock it's relative isn't it?

[tall wyvern]

It’s not only filled from the throat, it’s mainly filled from the sides. That’s what the cutouts just ahead of the rear wheels are for on F1 cars.

[primal lantern]

hmm

oh yeah I remember

[edgy anchor]

Wait what?

[primal lantern]

the cutouts in the floor

[tall wyvern]

That’s how they get such ridiculous diffuser angles.

[primal lantern]

I think this is an example

[edgy anchor]

If that's the gap we mean then sure but if we mean the ones after the barge boards I've got a hill to die on

[tall wyvern]

If the air was just coming in in a straight line from the floor (which it isn’t anyway, it’s big vortices), it wouldn’t turn the corner of the diffuser kick line. The air feeding the diffuser from the side forces it round and makes a big vortex each side of the diffuser.

That is the gap I mean.

[edgy anchor]

Okay phew

[tall wyvern]

The front ones are the opposite, that’s why they have the massively cambered flaps.

[edgy anchor]

Yeah that's why I was confused those're the Vortex generators

[tall wyvern]

They are, but they’re also wings. They do the same thing a gurney flap does, only sideways.

[primal lantern]

I still do find interest in how might a smaller diffuser do the trick of an opposite effect with a larger diffuser, however

[edgy anchor]

Yeah but that's only if you make the larger diffuser to purposefully stall it

[tall wyvern]

A smaller diffuser can’t pump as much air through.

Same premise as wings near diffusers. Suction side reduces the back pressure so the diffuser doesn’t have to work so hard.

[primal lantern]

ah I see

and I'm guessing because of the RAW's lack of a wing means it's able to achieve a higher top speed, no?

[tall wyvern]

That is so weird

[edgy anchor]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/794774942838292510/1067474062705709127/ds-indy85b.png

If smaller diffusers did a better job I'd want a refund

We need confusing amounts of negative space back there

[tall wyvern]

That I agree with

Something about huge diffusers is just.. glorious

[primal lantern]

I like the time attack ones where they poke out a bit more from the car

[edgy anchor]

Ayo my fault bruh

[tall wyvern]

I also love time attack and hill climb cars

[primal lantern]

indeed

they are very interesting to look at

I find this one especially quirky

I bet Max Verstappen would enjoy time trials

[tall wyvern]

WING.

[primal lantern]

never forget

[edgy anchor]

https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/QrsxHJuTiALF8uCvpsAw4xPN8twlKHvsiy5AaE4DS78/https/pbs.twimg.com/media/Ezjnda-XIAISoYP.jpg

There we go

[primal lantern]

god bless the Scion tC time attack

also how do y'all define spoiler and wing?

[tall wyvern]

The 1990 cathedral too lol

[primal lantern]

especially this thing

[edgy anchor]

A spoiler is usually a gurney or something to direct the air exiting off the back edge of a car afaik

A wing is designed for downforce

[primal lantern]

yeah that's how I've viewed it

well both direct air

[tall wyvern]

The simplest definition is that a spoiler isn’t a wing. Sounds stupid but I mean literally, a wing is well defined.

[primal lantern]

yeah

a wing is a thing

a spoiler is not that thing

[tall wyvern]

Yeah lol

[primal lantern]

yeah I just focus mostly on the structural side so I'm always in a constant pain when it comes to how to make good vehicle dynamics

[edgy anchor]

https://www.ultimatecarpage.com/images/car/1410/Lotus-102-Lamborghini-10236.jpg

[tall wyvern]

Gurneys are designed for downforce, they increase downforce massively, weirdly

[edgy anchor]

I raise thee

[primal lantern]

and this aero stuff confuses me sometimes cause I try to figure out how it applies to the vehicle dynamics side

[edgy anchor]

Wdym?

[primal lantern]

take my talk about the anti-dive suspension for Red Bull and Aston Martin's F1 cars

while their application is part of a system

[tall wyvern]

For f1, if you can see it on the outside of the car, the answer to why is this there is always downforce

[primal lantern]

the suspension package is a pretty important part

because it's literally suspension

[edgy anchor]

Please elaborate

[primal lantern]

and the anti-dive is designed in a way which cooperates with the rest of the car to work with aero and also prevent the car from doing too much motion under certain forces

which keeps the floor aero stable and shit like that

[tall wyvern]

They increase the effective camber of the wing ‘for free’ in two ways. One way is that the reverse flow just ahead of the gurney acts like a ramp, so it’s like a flip up camber at the trailing edge (which is the most performant part). Second, they induce cross flow at the trailing edge, which by necessity increases the circulation round the wing. Lift is proportional to circulation.

[primal lantern]

look at this point my job is just to make sure an F1 car doesn't break its suspension under the aerodynamic loads

[tall wyvern]

That’s the reason they have gurneys on the floor edges. Induce a cross flow at the tip = extraction from under the floor.

[edgy anchor]

Well yeah they're tryna keep the attitude of the car the same kinda like actice suspension

[primal lantern]

yeah that's my point

there's also some aerodynamic fuckery they assembled within it

and also they still need to have some level of feedback to the driver

and also dive under braking can increase frontal grip because the front wing is a stronger angle

[tall wyvern]

Mainly because it’s closer to the ground but yes.

[primal lantern]

yes

[edgy anchor]

McLaren 1990 seething rn

[primal lantern]

and I'm still trying to figure out how the Red Bull does that thing where the rear wing is just perfectly designed that it seems to lose purpose in the straight but functions greatly in the turns while still managing to keep the car looking flat

Adrian Newey, who will they ever find to replace you

[tall wyvern]

Just balanced perfectly with the springs.

[edgy anchor]

It's stall point I presume, like how third springs are second rate suspension

You tune the gaps between elements and such so it stalls out after a certain speed, off the top of my head

[tall wyvern]

Stall would be the other way, sitting the car down reduces the angle of attack so they’re more resistant to stall.

The whole car, not just wing.

[edgy anchor]

But why would be sitting down here?

[tall wyvern]

Springs designed so that they’re overpowered by the rear load faster than the front, so the incidence of the whole car is reduced and thus drag.

[edgy anchor]

Oh we're talking about the rear suspension

[tall wyvern]

They definitely do stall the diffuser though.

[edgy anchor]

I thought we were talking about the front anti-dive and then the rear wing

[tall wyvern]

Oh I was talking about this

[edgy anchor]

Yeah

What does that have to do with the rear suspension?

[tall wyvern]

In an aerodynamically balanced car the front and rear load proportionally. Normally less load on the front because of the centre of gravity being quite far backwards. So the rear suspension is designed so that it can not only sustain the loads without hitting its bumps, but also stay predictable under the increased load through speed, but decreased load through the reduced incidence and stay collapsed when the diffuser stalls and the load drops off a cliff.

[edgy anchor]

I thought the rear collapse was banned

[tall wyvern]

Not in principle, just in practice. The load reduces so much and so suddenly when the diffuser stalls that without the suspension collapsing it would spring back up as soon as that happened, then the diffuser would un-stall, and repeat (porpoising..)

There’s no other way the cars can stay sat down at those speeds without the diffuser

[edgy anchor]

I remembered that last year the trick was controlled stall as to help eliminate porpoising

How would they do that?

Would they burst the edge vortices?

That was something that was unintentionally achieved on the MP4-18

[tall wyvern]

Stalling is half the problem, the only foolproof way to avoid it it higher ride heights. I think red bull especially just managed to get a perfectly stable system of vortices under the floor which were really resistant to bursting.

[edgy anchor]

So what they tune the ride height and choke point?

[tall wyvern]

Yeah this is a nice graph i drew

You get more and more downforce the closer to the ground you are, until a point where it all drops off. Naturally the teams want their cars right at the peak. The danger is that any slight drop in ride height and the whole thing falls apart, suspension pushes back up, downforce comes back, suspension contracts, and the car just oscillates around that peak.

[edgy anchor]

Well I get how porpoising works

So you think they tune it for like halfway?

So right after stall begins?

[short ether]

Interesting

[primal lantern]

What's up boys, time to bring in a new thing:
https://youtu.be/1MDq23scaWw

this graph from this video

the general track day enthusiast wisdom is that wider tires are better, but a test by tire rack basically shows that it's more about how well supported the tires are by the width of the wheel rather than tire width

the 225 on the 9" is a stretched setup meaning it has some solid support by the wheel and was able to put out the best lap times of the group

with some suspension tuning, it may be possible to push the 245 on the 9" ahead of the 225 on the 9", or to consider putting 245 on a 10" wheel

in relation to F1, the reason why you'd want this solid balance of tire width to wheel width is to make sure the contact patch doesn't squirm about

this was the most extreme in the testing for the 245 on 7" where this contact patch squirming about made the car feel imprecise and response compared to the stretch of a 225 on the 9" which felt responsive and put out a solid average lap time for the drivers

hell even old F1(?) cars can be seen with this tire stretch

[tall wyvern]

The graph is a general trend, and the number themselves depend on the car. I think they’ve just built a car with a very stable floor system that doesn’t meet that drop till lower than the other teams. I think they’ll still be at or near the peak though. The technical directive last year was to force them up the x axis of the graph.

[tall wyvern]

Wider tyres are better because the contact patch is shorter front-to-back than a narrow tyre with the same inflation pressure. A shorter contact patch has more area actually gripping vs sliding.

[primal lantern]

yes, there is still a reason to have a wider tire

it's just that slapping the widest tire you can on your wheel is going to have major drawbacks

[tall wyvern]

Yes that’s the reason lol

[primal lantern]

I should've added that a lot of track day enthusiasts just go for as wide as they can without considering wheel width into the equation

[civic fern]

are you talking about the width of the wheel rim vs the tire width?

[primal lantern]

yes

[cold garnet]

Is anyone a karting expert here? I went indoor electric karting,my second time,my first time i did a personal best laptime of 54.343.This time i had a bit traffic but my personal best was 52.055.The first time (54.343),i was spending more time on the brakes and braking later and deep and taking v-shaped lines in hairpins,but rarely drifting,this time (52.055) i was not braking much,in some hairpins i was going full throttle,but i was drifting a lot,any tips on what should i do to improve time?

I cant seem to find a balance between not braking and braking just enough to keep a high minimum speed mid-corner to not drift.

Any tips

If i dont brake and go full throttle,i drift a lot,but i can make the corner

This is the track map

On the second hairpin i take it full throttle

[silent heron]

You need to find the balance between braking as little as possible and drifting as little as possible

the more you brake the more time you lose

but the more you drift the more momentum you lose

it's just practice for me

but a real karter can definitely give you better advice than me

[cold garnet]

Alright thanks so much i appreciate it

As you said yeah i wasnt really caring about drifting i was tryna eliminate braking

[prime mortar]

Does anyone know about the 2026 engine regs RPM limit?

[primal lantern]

this depends on the kart's powertrain and the track that you're racing at

now, as Flambo said, you do want to eliminate as much drifting and braking as possible, but you'll still need to understand the areas where getting the necessary rotation is important

as you've found out in the drifting section, you're taking a kart more seriously by cracking it into its limits--possibly even further--and not really caring about driving it like an actual car which is something that has helped you

if I'm going to make an assumption, it looks like you participate at a K1 Speed karting track which only uses electric karts and utilizes indoor circuits which means that you're going to have to think of this as close to driving a Formula 1 car as you can

so don't try and flick the wheel aggressively into corner entry and instead focus on keeping it smooth

what you also want to remember is that electric karts involve instant torque application upon pressing the throttle so the method for gaining good exits is by stabbing the brake pedal and making it hit 100% pressure the moment you hit the apex before then letting off after the apex and getting back on the throttle

now I'm no karting coach so any other criticisms that can be given would be small corrections upon how you drive, but these are the major points that separate faster drivers from the rest

[slim willow]

Hey, anyone know how the tyre temperatures are measured during a race?

[primal lantern]

infrared cameras are mounted in certain positions which record tire temperatures

[slim willow]

Thanks

[cold garnet]

Oh yeah i was doing that A LOT

I was prioritizing entry speed and just throwing the kart in the corner and doing big corrections (a lot of times overreacting )mid corner and exit

I think on my best lap if I eliminated all the drifting i would have been another 2 seconds faster

But with this method of throwing the car into the corner and correcting midway gained me 2 seconds off my personal best the last time which was when i spent more time on brakes(no drifting at all,way more smooth)

I saw the video comparsion now and realized that all that entry speed i had was down to nothing after drifting on exit,so i lost big time while drifting

[amber kraken]

It's interesting what you can do with the suspensions to get some speed/pace
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucFssS_-T9s

[primal lantern]

Yeah I talked about this one a while back

They do a good job explaining it in the video that the reason you'd consider implementation of this concept is due to the importance of stable underfloor aerodynamics for the 2022-2025 regs

what they forgot to label out is that the extension intersects just below the centre of mass which means only part of the load transfer actually produces pitch (RB19 and AMR23 compared; credit to F1DataAnalysis)

There is obviously more to this system, and slapping on anti-dive doesn't guarantee you will succeed since these components are heavier (due to the increased loads), and the implementation requires some work due to driver feedback problems (because drivers expect to have some level of dive, squat, and roll under certain conditions)

it also needs to mesh well with your current aero package which is why Mercedes hasn't been able to really consider implementation due to them not being able to figure out how their aero kit could work with such suspension

this just basically means that Adrian Newey is really fucking good at his job

[silent heron]

I swear I've seen this picture 50 times in this channel now 💀

I'm joking it's like 3 times, but all in the last week

[amber kraken]

Guess we'll have to see this weekend https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCWayuhZTrc

Actually when was the last time a team used their "B-Spec" car (Aside from the 2021 cars, though I'm not sure if the 2021 cars count as B-Spec)?

[glacial patrol]

Aston changed concept/to their B-spec car in Barcelona last year

[primal lantern]

Williams was more recent with the Silverstone upgrade

sadly that only lasted like a lap before being crashed into

RIP Albon Silverstone 2022

anyways, here's what changed

[primal lantern]

Red Bull is running low downforce

the Aston Martin wing looks especially interesting

something going on up there

dont know what

[jade moss]

Going on up where

[calm burrow]

look at the side of the wing

not the wings but the supporting bits

[tall wyvern]

You mean the cable..?

[calm burrow]

Look at what i circled

[charred shadow]

They seem pretty confident about it

Definitely cooking something

Also haas trying something really weird

[frozen cradle]

Nah we’re cooking

[primal lantern]

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel-1/f1-baku-rennwochenende-sprint-format-problem-upgrades/

According to AMuS: Red Bull has only made minor changes to the floor and sidepods. They have reduced the depth of the sidepod inlet on the RB19. The sidepod inlet joins the chassis about 30-50mm higher this weekend compared to the start of the season.

[charred shadow]

Oh god

Why is it scarier than before

[primal lantern]

because we know Newey can cook

and also just RBR engineers in general

but Newey has some hand in the car's direction

[charred shadow]

I'm terrified

[primal lantern]

some RB19 pics

[charred shadow]

This is what i see in my nightmares

But we also cooking https://twitter.com/AlbertFabrega/status/1651586194742837248?t=WiPRquTgZ7lReXdW0faKzQ&s=19

Albert Fabrega (@AlbertFabrega)

Detalles del ala de baja carga del Aston Martin.

Detail of low downforce Aston Martin rear wing.
#f1 #AzerbaijanGP

Likes

1706

Retweets

115

Twitter · Apr 27, 2023, 1:56 PM

[cold garnet]

NeWey

[weary thicket]

Looks like they did some changes to the rear wing looks different

[charred shadow]

The weakness of the AMR23 is top speed

This new rear wing was introduced to combat that

[primal lantern]

that's bait lol

[modest solstice]

The logos are inverted wtf

[modest solstice]

Wonder what is this for

Cant understand why Mercedes did this

Wont they lose performance doing It?

They Will be losing low pressure right?

[latent shoal]

Looks like to direct air more efficiently. Might also increase outwash/dirty air. Not that anyone will be close enough to the rb

As you can see I'm a skilled aerodynamic person

[frozen cradle]

Nutty Haas wing under DRS

[modest solstice]

Looks like some kind of exit

[modest solstice]

Yea The sidepods, in my vision they Will reduce drag by a bit, but also Power The rear of The car, because as you see the redbull has those "half tunnels" around The sidepod, where The high energy flow below The entry can Go through, and deliver It to The rear aero package, It migh also impact floor efficiency but im not sure

Because of The buildup of high pressure there

[queen locust]

Why was there a VSC in FP1?

[charred shadow]

Standard precautions

Nothing especial

[cobalt igloo]

I'm new to f1, but very interested in the engineering and technicalities

Where should I start and what should I do/learn to be fluent with current and past technology in f1

What we're your guys' path to becoming well versed on thr technicalities of f1?

Do you know of any good reading material/sites to read to become well versed on the technical sides of f1?

Would love anyones input tqsm!!

[flint sorrel]

How to build a car by Adrian newey

[craggy moon]

How to build Adrian Newey by a car

[old briar]

How to car a Newey by Adrian build

[modest solstice]

@tall wyvern do you know why mercedes did this, i cant understand, because i think they will be losing low pressure doing it, therefore losing downforce

[tall wyvern]

‘Cleaner endplate flow’, aka the cut element means there is off the surface pressure recovery which is more resistant to separation. I guess the team found the flow was departing off the deflector endplate before now, so cutting into it and making three discrete vortices was better than two.

[modest solstice]

so it might reduce drag at the cost of some downforce?

[amber kraken]

Charles with the updated Ferrari
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIZ5B1FqjZU

[tall wyvern]

More downforce, because it works the diffuser harder with the cleaner exit

[modest solstice]

Oh so it makes the exit cleaner because of The 3 vortices, so then The diffuser can work harder?

I also didnt understand this...

[weary thicket]

Did they unlock super max mode on the f1 car

[tall wyvern]

At the point where these cuts are, the air is decelerating. The fastest air is just under the leading edge of the wing elements. All air has a total pressure. This is a mix of dynamic pressure (kinetic energy) and static pressure (internal energy). The faster the air, the more of it is dynamic pressure, and the less is static pressure. It follows that when the air is stationary, the dynamic pressure is zero, and all the total pressure is in static pressure.

So, when the air accelerates round the wing element curvature, it has to decelerate again back to zero. This is called pressure recovery, because the air is recovering the static pressure that it exchanged for dynamic pressure.

On a surface, the air can only cope with a finite amount of pressure recovery (deceleration) because the higher the deceleration, the higher the (adverse) pressure gradient slowing the air. At a certain point, this gets too much for the boundary layer and it separates from the surface. This is flow separation and it causes messy, recirculating air.

Pressure recovery is more resistant to separation if it happens off the surface, which is one of five reasons that multi-element aerofoils are good.

And yes, spinning that extra vortex mixes higher energy air back into the boundary layer, so it improves the flow quality because it resists the separation.

[remote palm]

Tyre Wear
X axis: laps
Y axis: seconds (not accurate, but the ratio of the two lines should be similar)
Only did mediums and hards because it seems softs aren't a viable option

Strategies can range from:

Starting with mediums to jump start ahead of time but then struggling

Starting with hards, more stable but vulnerable at the start

Doing a medium-hard-medium strategy that would make sure you're always faster than the cars ahead

The fastest seems to be starting with hards and finishing with mediums, as pitting after just 10 laps isn't really optimal

[civic fern]

the problem with that is you basically go backwards at the start and get swallowed up by normally slower cars on Mediums which have more grip

and then you have to overtake them all again, which usually destroys the time difference you'd make on a strat like this compared to M-H

[modest solstice]

ohhh so the cut there was preventing that part (wing elements) from "stalling"?

[severe knoll]

so late breaking is the trick to leclerc's poles in baku

[short ether]

Lads

Is there anyway I can get the trace of the racing line taken by a car around a lap?

[primal lantern]

yeah the car he's in has good confidence when it comes to entry braking and top speed, which is why Leclerc could do so well in Baku

This is an issue Sainz is making in that he isn't as confident as he should be on the brakes which sucks out some lap time

But during the video you can see how shit the exits are for most of his turns compared to Verstappen meaning literally if Ferrari solves its turning issues they can become the top car again

The Red Bull is a much better package throughout the majority of a track rather than being exceptional at the top speed and braking performance

if Ferrari manage to crack the issues involving turning, which they focused on last year with the F1-75, then its very possible that the SF23 can do something stellar

whether they will actually pull this off idk, it could be until next year when they make this change

[civic fern]

and then when he tries to late brake he just goes straight on

driving style really

i think if you give Sainz and perhaps Perez even, cars that understeer they could possibly be faster than their teammates because it suits their driving styles much more

at the end of the day you are talking about the 20 fastest drivers in the world, its pretty much impossible for one to actually be 3 to 5 tenths quicker than another based on talent alone

[flat imp]

Leclerc is pretty adaptable tbh from my memory, not sure about Verstappen because he's been in the pointy cars for so long, but I'd love to toss all of em into cars that are just diametrically opposed to what they're currently driving

[civic fern]

remember how Ricciardo suffered so much in the understeery McLarens because he spent his entire career in pointy Red Bulls and pointy-enough Renaults?

I wonder how Norris would perform outside the McLaren

[flat imp]

Depends on how adaptable he is I guess

Which we don't really know because unlike Ferrari, McLaren is pretty consistently understeery

Ferrari ranges from very pointy-looking to looking like that rear is just where all that balance is just within a season

[drowsy nacelle]

I love this channel so much. Rekindles my love for F1.

[amber kraken]

Checo's street track mastery (?) is certainly interesting in the RB
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgGbNJDTWKw&ab_channel=THERACE

[placid lynx]

is miami track front oriented or rear oriented

[near mountain]

prob front, because it is pretty technical

[silent heron]

Front limited if that’s what you mean

[flat imp]

Off topic but man all I want is to crack the RBR open and fuck around w their suspension is so interesting

[primal lantern]

Yeah I've got hopes of becoming a suspension engineer (though composite engineer is probably more achievable) cause I can fuck around with all the vehicle dynamics stuff

[flat imp]

Im a whole different kind of engineering altogether but mechanical engineering is so fucking cool and suspensions in particular are just incredible

[amber kraken]

So despite being "tricky to drive", Danny Ric and Lando managed to score the iconic 1-2 at Monza 2021. I have a feeling that in some favorable conditions, and with the right set up, the MCL35M is a front runner.

Now, Lando does have an adaptive driving style. But how the hell did Danny Ric managed to outdrive his McLaren against Max's RB16B and Lewis' W12, which are superior cars, at Monza of all places?

[primal lantern]

idk if you're baiting, but Monza '21 had this incident go down:

https://tenor.com/view/lewis-hamilton-max-verstappen-cry-about-it-gif-23054105

now tbf Ricciardo and Lando did have some good work during that race as well

but, from what I recall that year, the McLaren was also insanely capable on straight-line speed

and for Monza, where full throttle is about 80% of the lap, it makes it easy for the McLaren to be in the running

[upper ivy]

It helped but the two Mclaren already were in the lead even before that

that weekend probably just was a perfect combination of everything for Mclaren

[flat imp]

Quick off the start, fast in a straight line, and then the nonsensical nature of the magnets in Hamilton and Verstappen’s cars. Max had a real garbage first pit stop too, Hamilton had a kinda slow one, so Norris got the jump on em both in there, then after that Hamilton and Verstappen did their little thing. But the cars were all pretty close in the end, Bottas Leclerc and Perez finished within ten seconds of Ric.

[tepid plover]

daniel had a great start i think he was p4 in the quali and had a great start onto p2

and then this happened

https://tenor.com/view/max-verstappen-lewis-gif-23054152

lando was JUST ahead of them as u can see

which gifted mclaren 1-2

and bottas on the podium W

https://tenor.com/view/monza-f1-mclaren-daniel-ricciardo-gif-23054215

https://tenor.com/view/dani-dani-ric-daniel-ricciardo-mclaren-p1-mclaren-monza-gif-24423094

[flat imp]

Man this makes me sad. I miss Danny.

[severe knoll]

https://tenor.com/view/daniel-ricciardo-wtf-fight-formula1-rhenault-gif-14986857

[fossil geode]

Hi

[prime mortar]

What do yall think the 2026 engines will sound like

I know its supposed to be louder but what is realistic to expect

[craggy moon]

More whine I think

Like less engine sound and more whine

[coral glade]

Ferrari 2022 Mexico lol

[primal patrol]

they're getting rid of the mguh so yeah, louder with more of a whine from the hybrid system

like lmp1 cars ig

[primal lantern]

I doubt whine would have an effect since electrical systems are all but silent

really it's just the gears and that's not really an issue when the engine screams louder than me with your mother

what I do expect is maybe the return of anti-lag systems to minimize the effects of turbo lag in the 2026 systems

most of the mguh efforts were for anti-lag without blowing up the turbo, so maybe some pops and bangs during downshifts sounds logical

[silent heron]

It’s raining!!
How does this affect the strategy? How many stops?

[charred shadow]

Still a one stop (that's obviously temporarily)

[edgy anchor]

With the fuel being further limited by an energy cap, despite the lack of MGU-H, I doubt they'll sound very much different

They might have more depth

But I doubt they'd even rev as high

[short ether]

Is it still raining?

[silent heron]

Don’t think so

It’s cloudy

[remote palm]

Y Axis: Seconds
X Axis: Laps
Official suggested strategies:
M-H
M-H-M
M-H-S

(Keep in mind this is but an approximation of the real scenario)

The hards seem to be the best tyre to use throughout the session. The mediums at the start will only be used to shorten the already long stint of the hards, which will have to complete at least 20 laps and will probably be kept for longer. On the other hand softs and mediums could be used at the end to exploit the tyre wear weakness that other cars will have.

[charred shadow]

Finally, strategy options

Atleast for the end

[civic fern]

Harder tire = more durable, can go for more laps before it dies and you lose all pace
Softer tire = more grippy compound, faster, but less laps before it dies

[thorny sigil]

sometimes different tires suit different tracks.for instance you saw how good the hard tire was in baku

[short ether]

Bro the WRC anti lag systems sound so good I rly hope they bring them back to f1

[primal lantern]

that's a whole temperature thing and it varies

also track surface

[short ether]

not to mention car and drive style

some cars and drivers are just better at making tires last longer

[primal lantern]

yes

some cars suck at maximizing tire lifespan

and some drivers are better at maximizing tire lifespan than others

[flat imp]

Oh also also what is hard medium and soft changes depending on the race track cause Pirelli has 5 different tire options, the C1-5 (not including the ones for not dry racing)

So for some tracks the soft will be tire that was the hard for another

[edgy anchor]

why?

[left geode]

Well,teams would obviously find a way to gain tenths by avoiding suffering from turbo lag.
But nowadays,turbochargers evolved to a point where they have such a minimal amount of lag/spooling to reach their maximum pressure

[edgy anchor]

yeah but 1. Fuel limits constrain power which means smaller turbos anyway and 2. The increased electric power

[vestal prairie]

You sound like someone who is smart if I go into F1 I would want you to be chief car engineer

[vestal prairie]

And you too smart man

[left geode]

Yeah,in the end,the reduced power the PU will deliver in 2026 means they don't need to run a aggressive/high turbocharger pressure and as a plus utilize a smaller turbo to have quick gains

[prime mortar]

So what do you guys think Mercs upgrades in Imola will be?

[silent heron]

A new car in theory

I mean a b-spec is what they called it

Different side pods and floor

Are the minimum

[flat imp]

Wonder how next year is gonna look for em

[prime mortar]

I think they should just put minimal effort into this years car and go all out on next years and put money into R&D.

[amber kraken]

Hmm. Could this a McLaren 2004 moment for Mercedes?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYfpTZSABBw

Because if I do remember correctly, McLaren used the evolution of the 2002 MP4/17, the MP4/17D, for the 2003 season because the intended 2003 car (the MP4/18) turned out to be a death machine on wheels. But when they debuted their 2004 MP4/19, it turned to be.... quite underwhelming, to say the least

[flat imp]

Merc’s been shifting around their technical staff too. It seems like the Imola upgrades would have been the move in an era where there wasn’t a budget constraint but if they don’t know why this car doesn’t work then I don’t see how they expect to fully address their problems by just bringing a new car. IDK this year could have been an R+D yr round two for em because I don’t see them catching up this year so the aggressive upgrade package seems like a shot in the dark. But. IDK what’s going on at their factory.

[edgy anchor]

It might not've helped that the MP4-19 was like the 18 minus a couple of the innovations that Adrian wanted to 18 to have

And that dev time on both the 17D and 18 would've sacrificed the 19...

[flat imp]

Gotta wonder if Merc essentially bringing a whole new car now is gonna screw em up for next season though

[edgy anchor]

Well that's the thing with revolution is it's a gamble

Whether regs or teams... I'd presume it will be tricky for em out the gates as they've gotten desperate

[flat imp]

Can get why they wouldn't want to scrap this season but it feels like they need to just rethink the basic car concept

[prime mortar]

The thing is when all was said and done the MP4/17D was only 2 points behind Schumi in the championship. If they had put their time and effort into the 17D when they realized the 18 sucked and tried to get all they could out of the 17D Kimi would be a 2x champion.

[jaunty latch]

@prime mortar I agree with you on that, it was a wasted opportunity.

[civic fern]

It was not just as simple as that

Remember when Kimi’s engine blew while leading at the Nurburgring

Basically Mercedes at the time was basically ran by an equivalent of Mattia Binotto

Engineering genius playing company lead

(Except unlike Binotto, he was forced into the role because the other high level exec died in a plane crash)

TLDR Quality suffered, Merc used different piston design, the last piston that went into Kimi’s engine wasn’t of the same spec as the others because there was nothing else, and thats what blew

That doesnt happen, and Kimi literally takes a WDC off the Michael in only his 3rd year in F1. Michael stays tied with Fangio at 5 WDCs until F2004 at least

[prime mortar]

Right

Thats what I mean, all the money that could have gone to the parts and securing a good car even if its from last year.

[upbeat creek]

my biggest fear is going up against a williams fw14...

[flat imp]

That car was a technological masterpiece oh my god

[short ether]

How does that even happen

[devout steppe]

The Michael

[true pendant]

im so so eager to see what the package for the w14 is

im sure they are going to make lewis seat more behind

and stronger DRS aero

[flat imp]

Id hope to see a different philosophy for their overall aero, but I’m curious to see whether they plan on dying on the hill of their initial concept

[charred shadow]

Aston Martin surprisingly already managed to get a stronger drs in Miami

On level with redbull

But even with that, redbull is just still too quick

The whole car works in symphony

It's perfect

And scary

I see that car and then i proceed to shit myself

[flat imp]

All I want is 2 seconds inside Adrian Newley’s brain

[true pendant]

its not newy all alone but a whole team

the DRS works well with all the other parts

that RB constatly hits 340 on any straight

i wonder how it will do at monza

[flat imp]

I mean obviously yes but Newey’s worked on and been a major contributor to a considerable amount of some of the most dominant cars in this sport. I want to sit in his brain for a while. Must be incredible to have that amount of expertise

[true pendant]

i think i rather be in james allison head

he is just an aero god

[short ether]

Newey and Allison are on the same level

[left geode]

https://youtu.be/cq7Aat1onEU

[stark adder]

Ferrari is miserable on Miami straights

[candid quail]

Hi, i am looking for someone that is really into aerodymics for a little help with my school project.

[drowsy nacelle]

Better if you ask right away

[short ether]

https://tenor.com/view/cow-airflow-diagram-vectors-aerodynamics-gif-4785226

[wraith acorn]

i wonder if theres any software like those for free

[short ether]

isnt AirShaper free?

Nevermind

https://www1.grc.nasa.gov/beginners-guide-to-aeronautics/foilsimstudent/

There is this

[wraith acorn]

yeah but that ones for airfoils only

i actuslly want to get into design on my free time right now w/ those kinda softwares

would be fun messing around w/ stuff like that

[short ether]

I'm sure there is a free one that you can use for custom models like cows or mario. Just look for one,

[wraith acorn]

how much are usual ones?

[short ether]

No clue. I dont look for them.

[tall wyvern]

Actually openfoam is free and is what most of the f1 teams use

[candid quail]

?

[candid quail]

thx

[drowsy nacelle]

Whatever specific help you are seeking.

[drowsy nacelle]

Wait what?

[civic fern]

join a Formula Student team

[wraith acorn]

whats that?

[civic fern]

university level engineering competition

regulations are somewhat similar to 2009-2013 generation F1

[wraith acorn]

is it for university people only?

[civic fern]

FSAE/FS is

[wraith acorn]

ah, still in highschool lol

[civic fern]

you can probably get free software licenses through your school anyway

I use Siemens STAR-CCM+

[civic fern]

its a lot easier to get into than OpenFoam

[wraith acorn]

ah so you have to get it through student license?

or u can still pay for it

just free if u get it through the school

my school doesnt do much engineering stuff aside from computer science

[civic fern]

you don't want to know how much commercial licenses cost lmao

[wraith acorn]

the quest pro is a prime example of that

💀

even though it isnt licenses

its marketed towards enterprises and it shows

but it seems like the student license is guided towards universities

right now what i can do is just 3d model and do a diy wind tunnel

[tall wyvern]

Yes it is child’s play compared to openfoam, but it is not free. The teams that don’t already use openfoam are slowly switching to it, and it can be made easier with guis (I don’t though).

[primal patrol]

i thought this was a porsche at first glance

[flat imp]

TBF if you’re in high school you might be able to ask about doing more advanced computer modeling and software as just a part of the curriculum? Either way depending on how long you have left you definitely should look into student race teams for uni, they can be a lot of fun. Might be worth reaching out and seeing what the school would be willing to help you get though

[short ether]

That also depends on the country. I know where I live they required you to complete the basic course the year before to even get to the advanced curriculum.

Unless that's what you're saying and I'm misreading "ask for more"

[flat imp]

Yeah, I wouldn't have been allowed to do a lot of the things I did in high school without having exhausted the classes they already had

[short ether]

On this map of Monaco, what do the blue zones mean??

[upper ivy]

I think they're just sections of the track with multiple corners? 🤔

like the Nouvelle chicane has corners 10 and 11; the individual corners don't have names

unlike e.g. Sainte Devote

[primal lantern]

the blue markers are just sections of the track, that include multiple turns, which are held under a specific name

Turn 18-19 is known as Anthony Noghes

Turn 10-11 is the Nouvelle Chicane

Turn 13 is Louis Chiron but the inclusion of Turn 13 with 14-16 is known as Piscine (Pool)

You'll see the same thing if you look at the Spa-Francorchamps track map on Wikipedia

the blue marked area at Turn 3-5 is Raidillon Eau Rouge

and same with Turn 19-20 which is marked as Chicane

[craggy moon]

What in the world is turn 2

[flat imp]

In Spa, or Monaco?

[craggy moon]

spa

[short ether]

Ohh okay, thanks!

[primal lantern]

it's just Turn 2

[craggy moon]

its hardly a corner lol

its like austria turn 2

[short ether]

Less of a turn and more of a minor adjustment

[craggy moon]

real

[merry delta]

https://tenor.com/view/chiropractor-adjust-simpsons-gif-9500098

[heady yacht]

ngl i thought they were runoff zones or... water

[upper ivy]

track maps like this usually don't show run-off zones, only the actual track itself

[primal lantern]

yeah they only show pavement locations

and water isn't factored into the map

also this is exclusive to Wikipedia's images

when it comes to actual series showing the track maps, they use the track itself and then any important info like DRS detection zones or yada yada

[strange niche]

anyone know how to fix a throttle pedal for the sf1000?

[deft burrow]

#f1-games or #formula-1 please

[strange niche]

ok

[amber kraken]

So from what I gather from this video, the simulator had different results and data compared to the real world data of Mercedes' current troubled car design among other technical things

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiUJMGBh64I

[flat imp]

Tends to happen. Simulators are extremely good nowadays but still aren’t perfect and if you’re basing everything around simulator results you’re mildly fucked.

[tall wyvern]

Correlation is much more complex than just ‘the simulator’. CFD can be non-physical and makes lots of assumptions. Wind tunnels can’t do corners, have a blockage effect, are limited size and speed, can’t move the model fast enough. The only way to know for sure is track testing which is extremely restricted. It’s not ‘simulators aren’t perfect’ at all, it’s purely design tools have limitations. Simulator is the end step.

[flat imp]

Even so you can have a go in a simulator— they aren’t the same as practical use cases. They’re not a perfect simulation of what happens. It’s why they’re one tool of many but ultimately you can’t rely on sim data for everything. As far as I’ve been trained at least there’s always shit that you can’t incorporate into a sim because without real time testing you won’t know it’s there and that skews the results you get.

[flat imp]

Far as I’ve always been told is that you can’t invariably trust the simulator wrt things you don’t already know

[tall wyvern]

Yes but a simulator is a supplementary tool, it’s not a primary design tool like cfd and the wind tunnel. The simulator is only working off information from these primary tools, and it’s the error in those which is the problem, not the simulator, which just presents what it’s given according to the cfd and wind tunnel data.

[flat imp]

I mean yeah, and I might have parsed the video wrong (in which case my bad lmao), but it seemed like they were surprised the simulator results didn’t line up with reality. Which… is just something that happens given the limitations of the data you have on hand when developing it. Which they should know and shouldn’t be purely trusting simulator results to take development decisions (which again, mighta been me parsing the video wrong because that seems pretty ridiculous)

[charred shadow]

ASTON MARTIN HONDA

[craggy moon]

Wait what

[charred shadow]

They've reached an agreement

[craggy moon]

NO WAY

[charred shadow]

Expect an announcement tomorrow

[craggy moon]

When

What year

26 i guess

[charred shadow]

2026

I mean it's the obvious choice

Aston Martin making moves to become the next powerhouse in F1

Meanwhile mclaren

007

0 wins

0 podiums

7 new sponsors

Oh yeah and they're still a customer team

[charred shadow]

[charred shadow]

Chill

3rd championship

[modest solstice]

Air intake seems quite big

[craggy moon]

Yeah

[floral kite]

Is this all the images we have so far?

[modest solstice]

probably, i havent seen more

[modest solstice]

also got this

[midnight storm]

Mercedes latest insta story… spot the side pod…

[odd fable]

that s probably a show car

[midnight storm]

Thought it may be but 🤞🏽

[stark adder]

albert the goat

[stark adder]

chonk sidepod

[placid lynx]

can someone tell difference between anti dive suspension as there are only 2 type push n pull?

[rich cove]

Push and pull are denoting where the dampners are located for the suspension. Pull=bottom of the car, push=top of the car. The anti dive or anti squat is baised upon where and how the suspension arms mount to the chassis. There are some good videos on this subject.

[smoky oxide]

jeez finally

[stark adder]

quite an intense sidepod change, floor looks crazy too

[primal lantern]

Upper wishbone is sloped down here, which improves the anti-dive capabilities and should help stabilize the underbody aero

Camber gains also seem smaller than before which might improve low speed braking but with the tradeoff of worse low speed understeer

btw right photo is lifted in the air, under static weight both wishbones will rotate counter-clockwise

[tall wyvern]

This whole thing is bogus, it’s all aero like I said before

[delicate kettle]

Alpha Romeo floor

[tall wyvern]

Like I said, it’s all aero

[mighty mist]

Primary reason. Couldn’t there be a secondary reason they didn’t have to put in this?

[modest solstice]

there might be a million...

[primal lantern]

There is still a utilization for certain suspension components in aerodynamics, but you still need to design said systems as a means of balancing the car in a certain way. Anti-dive isn't a necessity as there are multiple solutions to the same problem, but Mercedes seems to favor this for a reason

Further so with Aston Martin and Red Bull Racing

[final dust]

Why do they clean the car in the garages after a run in qualifying?

[modest solstice]

I mean... Monaco is a low speed circuit, so in theory aero should matter less and mechanical grip might count for more

[civic fern]

Its a low speed circuit, which is why you run full downforce setups because the drag penalty isnt as great

Its counter intuitive (not just in racing) because you’d think the faster (speed wise) you go the more downforce you need but to be fast on the timing sheets its kinda the opposite

Suzuka is basically nothing but a starting grid and then one mid to high speed turn after another, yet the wing setups you see are closer to Monza than Hungary

[formal estuary]

What do you make of the floor comparisons of the Mercedes and red bull since there are now hq photos of both.

[amber kraken]

Huh. The comparison of Max's and Fernando's Q3 lap is interesting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Au3x3N9Plmk

[stark adder]

best pic of merc's floor

[unique burrow]

https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/jEjenmnySbkiJw-xpG67GYMkIIHZQf3cpFEPSGpPFXA/%3Fformat%3Djpg%26name%3Dlarge/https/pbs.twimg.com/media/FxJKg2mX0AEBIVb?width=1053&height=701

[narrow nimbus]

So is the big deal from this happening is that; Red Bull RB19 looks like the mercs floor?

[charred shadow]

Nothing like it

[primal lantern]

cleaning the car removes any debris that may have accumulated on the vehicle which can save weight and show off the sponsors clearly

also, after races, they do a proper clean where they remove all of the paint just to check on any cracks and such

they go down to individual screws and such and use some machinery to basically point them out like scanners or liquids that glow under black light conditions

you're basically working with the car world's equivalent of a rocket ship so it's best that you can check every nook and cranny of vehicle just to prevent it from a catastrophic failure come next race

[tall wyvern]

The springs are basically solid, anti dive is a meme which has been so overdone. The front actually lifts under braking because of the loss of downforce on the front wing. And pitch forward would be due to the rear lifting, not the front diving, which anti dive wouldn’t help with anyway, even if the springs weren’t solid

[tall wyvern]

Mechanical grip is only a loss, not a gain. In other words you can only prevent grip losses, not gain total grip. The ONLY way to gain total grip is tyre pressures and downforce. Even then, at Monaco the average speed equates to nearly a 50% increase in normal load, it’s not insignificant at all. The tyres have friction coefficients of over 1 so it’s over a 50% increase in lateral force from the tyres.

[tall wyvern]

To be honest not really much to make of it, it’s so dependent on the diffuser, floor edges, wheel wakes, front wing, rear wing(s). The flow under the car is totally vortex dominated too, so it’s literally impossible to picture without very expensive CFD.

[primal lantern]

There is still a known force pushing down under the heavy Gs under braking. It's also important to note that the engineers want to minimize the deflection of the front wheels vertically due to braking conditions

And, again, I do see a reason that they have an aerodynamic purpose when designing this geometry since you're trying to stabilize the rest of the package--all of which is fine tuned during the practices and before qualifying

And considering a lot of the drivers on today's grid want a consistent and capable front end for the tires, anti-dive can provide it alongside the tuning of the aero package

[formal estuary]

Newey can see aero

[primal lantern]

I've never stated that anti-dive is the end-all of the development game anyways. You can still make a solid car without these components due to the way the W14a and W13 were designed as originally. It's a design solution to a key problem of stabilizing the floor aero and the rest of the body which is assisted with clever tuning of the aero--a feedback loop.

[tall wyvern]

This is simply not true, the front LIFTS under braking - how can anti dive stop this? It can’t. All these cars have the same anti dive, it’s frankly ridiculous how much traction this has got when it’s not based on fact. The near-rigid heave springs do more than enough.

[tall wyvern]

Feedback loops are specifically banned, so, again, no.

That’s why the heave springs are so stiff

Much to mechanical engineers’ chagrin, literally everything on the outside of an F1 car is designed purely around aerodynamics

[primal lantern]

how does the front lift during braking?

plus it could be assumed that the front wing generates more downforce considering the braking force would dive the car, getting the front wing closer to the ground

[tall wyvern]

Because the aerodynamic load is so huge. There’s an initial dip, then both the front and rear lift continuously until corner exit and acceleration.

[tall wyvern]

No because it’s squared to velocity but not squared to ground proximity

[primal lantern]

there's some consideration over how the aero reacts as it approaches the ground, however

similar to how the strength of the floor manages stronger downforce due to its closeness to the ground

there's also the stronger attack angle but that's held for a moment

[tall wyvern]

There isn’t, the deceleration is much much much more impactful than a tiny drop in ground proximity

The heave springs have to resist 4 tonnes of load, braking has nearly no effect compared to that, especially when the downforce bleeds off. Hence the front lifts.

[primal lantern]

Really my only issue is that suspension geometry like this exists even outside of F1 which assists in the aerodynamics capabilities (despite not being visible)

and again I'm not denying there are some aerodynamic assistances with this

I'd like to see an explanation as to why the wishbones then are designed with aerodynamics despite it being part of the necessary needs for anti-dive to function

especially with how they share some similarities in GT cars like the AMG GT3 Evo

it would also be beneficial to explain why you consider anti-dive suspension to be a null point despite the many engineers discussing its capabilities in F1 especially when tuned to the right packages

[tall wyvern]

Well GT cars (and all series bar f1) don’t have to resist 4 tonnes, and they then have much softer springs which means geometry can do more work because there’s much more of consistent drop in front ride height under braking, rather than a BIG lift. They don’t lose so much force that’s constantly compressing the springs, ie they’re not so much lower to the ground at speed.

All the elements between the body and the wheels are designed purely with aerodynamics in mind, because they’re ahead of the floor and sidepod inlets. Downwash is very effective in this region because it influences so much upstream.

It’s a null point for every reason I’ve said. The heave springs are insanely stiff, basically rigid. The front lifts under braking. Anti dive doesn’t stop the front dropping due to the rear lifting. The cars already have exactly the right anti-suspension they need, it’s not new and it’s not complicated. Not a single f1 engineer is saying anything about anti dive, where did you get that idea?

[primal lantern]

Isn't the point of heave spring just to separate the heave from the roll springs, though?

[tall wyvern]

It’s to resist the car heaving, which is left+right wheel travel at the same time

[primal lantern]

So then wouldn't the only reason of anti-dive by now from what I'm learning be just to keep a better control of the roll and heave springs then?

Plus that control of the workload on dealing with the movement of the car could come in handy in making softer springs and dampers within the car?

[tall wyvern]

Yes exactly 🙂 but because the springs are so rigid, the anti dive is nowhere near as necessary because the work it would do is done by ridiculously stiff springs instead.

To the second part, yes, if they didn’t have to resist so much downforce. If the car goes from 800kg to 4000kg over a single straight, the springs are solid, otherwise there would be an even huger drop in ride height at the end of straights, and before. Basically everywhere. They just can’t have soft springs sadly.

[sharp sundial]

@tall wyvern do you know why pitot tubes are so prevalent on motorsports cars? If they measure airspeed, what’s the point? My understanding is that they’re used on airliners because they’re cheap and reliable for the work they do, but their shortcomings still can become obvious. Cars rarely consistently get up to the speeds airliners cruise at, and cars change speed and direction often. On top of that, scalability isn’t a major concern when you’re only making a few custom chassis a year.

[tall wyvern]

Pitot tubes only measure airspeed indirectly, they measure stagnation pressure (total pressure) and static pressure. The difference between these two is dynamic pressure, and if you divide that by density, times it by 2 and square root it, you get the airspeed. The gps and wheel speeds give road speed, so it doesn’t tell the team anything about the wind or generally air conditions, whereas the pitot tubes do because they’re directly measuring the air speed.

[calm burrow]

If Mercedes has a loss rear end is it caused by less downforce on the rear or suspension characteristics or is it the way they deploy energy ?

[short ether]

Ferrari 412P Engine Bay:

I was told to ask this question here…

Why are there multiple ignition coils (circled in green) going into the distributors?

4 coils to 2 distributors, for a 12 cylinder.

[edgy anchor]

So one coil would handle the power for 3 cylinders each? Idk usually when it comes to coild nowadays you get coil on plug or two coils handling like 3 or 4 cylinders at a time

I assume it was the best Marelli did or just getting bigger ones was heavy

[charred shadow]

Can someone make a comparison between the Monaco AMR23 and the Barcelona AMR23?

I want to see them upgrades closer

[tepid plover]

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferrrais-new-red-bull-style-f1-sidepods-revealed-in-spain/10476897/?utm_source=RSS&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=RSS-F1&utm_term=News&utm_content=www

[short ether]

no shit, everyone gon do that next uear

[modest solstice]

So wouldnt an anti-rise suspension be better for the cars? as they wouldnt rise up therefore making the floor more efficient

[onyx wadi]

Woah.

[iron shale]

Anybody have a technical analysis of the new Ferrari sidepods?

[merry delta]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU6rw0NPLek

[iron shale]

Thank you

[supple sedge]

im not sure if this question belongs here, but does anyone know how they correlate the height of the halo to the drivers height? or even if they do that? because i know all the drivers vary tremendously in height or that some may have longer torsos than others so i assume that either the seat fitting would be different or if they even modify the halo to protect their heads. or if there’s simply a standard height to them

sorry if thats a stupid question! but i became curious thinking about the height difference between yuki and george or alex

[merry delta]

the halo is standard, but the seat changes per driver

[deft burrow]

Correct me if I am wrong, but the drivers only have to be within the limits of the roll device during their seat fit, and the halo is fitted regardless of driver height

[vestal depot]

When these guys get fitted into the car you want the bottom of the visor to be just above the top of the steering wheel to have the best aero advantage while still giving them a clear view ahead. A human head isn't really tall enough to not allow the halo to do its job

[wispy jacinth]

Um im sorry is this a usbc port

[civic fern]

Either 1 or 2, definitely not energy deployment

[obsidian cliff]

How else do they charge the car

[amber kraken]

Wait, Lance was the only driver to go full throttle at the final corner? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0-uZlXKB38

Although, it seems like Oscar had a much higher speed through and out the corner

And seriously, what the hell, Ferrari?! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1taK8k6-rw

[formal estuary]

Compare exit speeds, he wasn't much faster than anybody. But setup differences would allow him to go flat out while others couldn't. Any car could slap on some rear stability/wing and go flatout there but that doesn't necessarily mean theyre faster.

[amber kraken]

"Ferrari doesn't even know the meaning of tyre management"

Absolutely roasted
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBsdVPd7hvk

[silver jewel]

does anyone know the dimensions of the tires used in 2005
I need it for the car I am building

[dim mango]

no wider than 355mm for the front tyres and 380mm for the rear tyres, maximum diameter of 660mm for both tyres (670 for Wets)

[silver jewel]

Fuck, 26 in x 13 in tires?

Where the hell am I going to find those

I am made of rocks

No I am just fucking stupid and been searching it wrong

[vestal prairie]

@dim mango

I don't like you

[devout steppe]

Why lol

[topaz basin]

Just thinking how come f1 cars dont have a full rotating drs flap so it can also help with breaking

For corners like chicanes

Like a flap which lifts up so more air is hitting the wing causing it to go slower

[stray wraith]

https://tenor.com/view/gta-v-flip-gaming-driving-drive-gif-19588696

Because

[tall wyvern]

Not a bad question at all, and it’s something on the table for 2026

[dim mango]

Okay and?

[amber kraken]

The opposite of the back of the pack teams copying the top teams' car design, to a certain degree
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjMlE9w7Jz8

[charred shadow]

Sometimes

Inferior teams have interesting stuff

[short ether]

Probably as it would put weight onto the rear of the car, which would take away front mechanical grip for a corner. Would work well in a straight line, but to brake into a corner it would probably cause the car to understeer

[topaz basin]

Yeah i was thinking more of a monza thing

[ancient scaffold]

Just because a team is at the back of the pack doesn’t mean they can’t come up with good ideas

[dim mango]

Unless you're Williams

because that's not even an innovation, that's just a floor

[charred shadow]

There's no ground effect

It's just ground

[fair bloom]

lol

[charred shadow]

https://twitter.com/AlbertFabrega/status/1669412815554134043?t=2caLhsECLoa-C4D36EA5bA&s=19

Albert Fabrega (@AlbertFabrega)

Primeras fotos del nuevo fondo plano de Aston Martin.

First pictures of new Aston Martin Floor.
#f1 #CanadianGP

Likes

1047

Twitter · Jun 15, 2023, 6:33 PM

You already know

[coral glade]

Wth is that floor edge

[charred shadow]

https://twitter.com/AlbertFabrega/status/1669414585659473938?t=PPo8gujlf_iVhOX-_iVCdA&s=19

Albert Fabrega (@AlbertFabrega)

La parte de atrás del fondo parece más estrecha, por lo que también debería haber nuevos pontones.

The rear part of the floor looks tighter, so I guess.there are also new sidepods.
#f1 #CanadianGP

Likes

1289

Twitter · Jun 15, 2023, 6:40 PM

[charred shadow]

I have no idea but I like what i see

[charred shadow]

https://twitter.com/AlbertFabrega/status/1669443701553221642?t=jUngRSTiVG_AJiuk9g3FVQ&s=19

Albert Fabrega (@AlbertFabrega)

Comparativa del nuevo suelo del Aston Martin. Más estrecho atrás

New Aston Martin Floor comparission.
#f1 #CanadaGP

Likes

364

Twitter · Jun 15, 2023, 8:36 PM

[burnt frost]

Just Had a thought but I dontnfeel like looking through regs myself, does an F1 Wheel have to be a certain shape/design like the current ones are or can they be different like say a more 'classic' wheel like a roadcar?

[merry delta]

they can be typical like that, but that sort of pattern provides less grip than slicks

[narrow cairn]

I believe they are talking about the steering wheel

[edgy anchor]

What do you mean?

[charred shadow]

https://youtu.be/vQ4ZAE3AezM

[burnt frost]

Is there any specific regulation that forces teams to use the, how do I say this, "current shape of the wheels with all the functions" I guess

[deft burrow]

it would be better to ask if there are any restrictions on how the f1 teams can design their steering wheels.

just change the wording to be more precise

[edgy anchor]

As in the steering wheels or Rims?

Because as far as I know the only restrictions are on the useage of quick releases, what the wheels can display (where Renault got caught displaying what Brake Bias Drivers should have before a corner), and the clutch paddles have to be direct as opposed to a Slave system

[tepid plover]

whats with the aston upgrades

all i see is yt thumbnails of it being "a huge step forward"

[limpid token]

they made the sidepod more like RB

[charred shadow]

Hopefully it is a step forward

[tepid plover]

Hopium 🙏

[frozen cradle]

Bro got the ufo photos

[limpid token]

Do we already know what tires will be used in Austrian and British GP?

i tried looking for it, but the announcements for these are a mess

[short ether]

No

[next gust]

• The Montreal Grand Prix will use the C2, C3, and C4 tyres.
• The Austria Grand Prix will use the C3, C4, and C5 tyres.
• The new tyre specification will be used for the first time at the British Grand Prix.
• The new tyre specification is more resistant to fatigue.
• The new tyre specification should help to improve tyre life and allow for more strategic opportunities during the race.

[limpid token]

thanks!
but still no information about the Silverstone compounds

wait, montreal had C5

[next gust]

where did you get the images

[limpid token]

me?

[charred shadow]

33 pit stops

33

[unique burrow]

was DRS invtend from the F-Duct?

[sharp sundial]

No, drs was introduced to improve passing after some events at yas marina, and it physically opens the wing to reduce the drag. The f duct was introduced earlier on to stall the rear wing, and was banned the following season

[unique burrow]

Interesting. i heard that some ideas came from the F-Duct and/or it was invtend from the F-Duct, anyways thanks

[ancient scaffold]

Didn’t Williams invent the F-Duct

[merry delta]

nope, it was originally introduced by McLaren in pre-season testing in 2010. Its name came from the fact that the f-duct was right next to the 'f' in 'Vodafone'

[ancient scaffold]

Wait no sorry I’m very stupid, I meant didn’t Williams invent DRS

[merry delta]

you're fine lol, and I don't know. Though, I don't think that they did

[zenith pumice]

they didn’t

perhaps the closest thing we have to today’s DRS was this from the Ferrari 312

good reddit post about it, I’ll link it below

https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/8fweyd/the_history_of_the_drs/#:~:text=The wing that chief engineer,the acceleration out of the

[edgy anchor]

Nah but like supermodifieds wings tho

https://www.motortrend.com/uploads/sites/21/2006/11/ctrp_0611_05_z-supermodified_racing-.jpg

http://www.proallstarsseries.com/2022-NEBSMS/600-DSC_7072.png

These vois got a passive system that drops after a certain speed threshold

[short ether]

How can a F1 and F2 wheel “communicate” with the car? Like how much fuel is left, ERS percentage. The wheel is just mounted on some mount. So how is it possible?

[deft burrow]

On the back of the wheel, there are pin outs in the quick release mechanism, and in the steering column. When the two connections meet, you get power to your steering wheel, and whatever else it is connected to. The car is fitted with many sensors, which tell the team what the car is doing, if there are any problems, etc.

[short ether]

Thanks!!!

[edgy anchor]

There's then a cable in the shaft of the wheel that then exits through a hole into the electronics and that

[weary gulch]

https://images.thesherlocker.com/riZa6/LAdUSoTO35.png

from the Carlos vlog

[true pendant]

how do teams decide on garages? which set of engineers a driver gets and mechanics I know for sure that no two mechanices are the same so the best ones go to who?

[stray breach]

Is there any good video's on what all the buttons (or what common buttons drivers like) do exactly? Also, is there anything on how exactly shifting works in an f1 car?

[edgy anchor]

https://www.pitpass.com/images/teams/800/mercedes/2018steeringwheel01.jpg

https://cdn-5.motorsport.com/images/amp/68yAXk90/s6/156-21-russell-steering-wheel-.jpg

Here's a good set of pics even if these aren't videos, in the case of Merc they have the monopaddle for the gears and in the case of george a single clutch paddle

https://youtu.be/YgwMWohxySk

BAR introduced I believe that year in 2005 the first Seamless shift Gearboxes which as far as I'm aware just means there's two barrels, and there's next to no clutch input

It's just bang, then almost like a DCT the next barrel is on the edge of pre-selecting the next so it jumps in as the other jumps out

https://motorsportexplained.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/1024px-F1_gearbox_components_7448373026.jpg

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/articles/single-seaters/f1/hondas-paradigm-shifter-that-flew-in-the-face-of-convention/

Nevermind I lied, Honda's improvement was one way clutched on each gear to allow two engaged gears at once so that when you change gears there's no gap between those two being in and out

[stray breach]

Got it thank you

[carmine cove]

any thoughts on active aero for 2026?

[ancient scaffold]

Depends what it is. If it’s things that slow the leading car down to make it easier to be passed, then I don’t like it, if it’s things like the drs flap being able to be used as an air brake, than I like it

[flat imp]

IIRC last year what was mentioned was downforce augmentation for following cars

[ancient scaffold]

I probably misremembered

[flat imp]

I mean it’s also been very non-specific so who knows what unserious nonsense they’re concocting

[limpid token]

maybe it will be just extra pace (driver/team operated, like 2009) if the sims show the cars being too slow

[vestal depot]

I think it's still a bit premature but could be fine if they implement it well

[charred shadow]

https://twitter.com/AlbertFabrega/status/1674451542538084352?t=7siVBHTW11iiMVmP3B3iLg&s=19

Albert Fabrega (@AlbertFabrega)

Detalles del nuevo pontón del McLaren. Un poco de Aston Martin, un poco de Red Bull...

Details of new McLaren's sidepod. Abit of Aston Martin, a bit of Red Bull...
#f1 #AustrianGP

Likes

118

Twitter · Jun 29, 2023, 4:15 PM

Ladies and gentlemen

The orange Aston Martin

[zenith pumice]

they just simplified the sidepods a bit

better removal of the outboard dirty air

[mystic scroll]

Can anyone tell me the corner angles for Austria, I’m trying to graph the Austrian gp circuit

And also the gradient of the hill

[narrow kestrel]

Sponsorship reasons

Always stupid

[narrow kestrel]

Quote Sarah Winter : "The science teacher you wish you had in school"

[amber kraken]

Despite the Porsche LMP1 having a slight edge at the start, it really goes to show just how OP the Mercedes W11 was
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Nk2FX3uXd8&ab_channel=WarayF1

[sleek spear]

i think mercedes was also running a high downforce setup that weekend

cuz they thought it was gonna rain or something

[strong hearth]

guys is anyone a former/still f1 performance engineer or does analysis?

i would really like to speak with someone in that area for my career, if you know anyone please inform me

[odd linden]

Check out the F1 Technical forum, there’s a few engineers there

[strong hearth]

Could you send me a link to that please?

[odd linden]

https://www.f1technical.net

You can also try to reach out to engineers and team members on LinkedIn

[strong hearth]

Thank you!! Will follow your advice

[tepid plover]

What was carlos's failure in SQ1??? brake by wire failure i believe what is that?

[upper ivy]

yeah that's what he said on the radio

[zinc bison]

Whats up with the purple curbs?

[iron shale]

Can someone explain to me what those openings are on top of the sidepod

they change in number every session and are always uneven

today Sainz had 4 open on the left and all on the right

but on quali they had only 4 on both

[tall wyvern]

They’re for cooling

[iron shale]

but why do they change every session

and most times are uneven

[charred shadow]

Because yes

[tall wyvern]

Different cooling requirements. Cooling gives losses so minimum cooling is good.

[limpid token]

because the less cooling louvres they have, the better it is for aero

but worse for the cooling

so they are looking for the best compromise, based on temperature forecast, pressure etc

if you look at pics from McLaren from Mexico last year, you'll see that they have insane number and size of them, just because the air is so thin and it was relatively high temperature

not all teams are using them to this extend, as RB had (has?) a lot of exhaust of the hot air in the back of the car, with rather minimal louvres

[fair bloom]

Guys i couldnt watch the race what did aston complain abt?

[limpid token]

track limits