... What about it? That aero looks pretty normal
#classic-motorsport
round swift
think Brabham only used this for one race, cause the nose mounted radiator, like in times of old, didn't work
bright umbra
M23 is one of the sexiest cars McLaren ever made
round swift
it's an M26
oblique dock
The M23 never had that front radiator
round swift
I just find the rear wing solutions in 1984 crazy
Talking about the M23, Gilles Villeneuve ran his first GP for McLaren in the porevious car (Hunt and Mass ran the M26), and he outqualified Mass in the older machinery
oblique dock
I just find the rear wing solutions in 1984 crazy
round swift
ye the 1984 clog rear wings are a bit trippy
oblique dock
the TG183
round swift
the 1984 model, i think
TG183B or sth
before the slick super white TG184
I find it so mad they used 220L Fuel tanks
and they complained when it was restricted to "only" 200L in 85
bright umbra
it's an M26
I know
round swift
That's 165kg or so
Or 58.1US Gal, 48.4imp Gal, or 365lb
Idk what measurement y'all wany
L is good for me, my fuel tank is 60L so i can see how much fuel they burn
red cloud
bright umbra
Talking about the M23, Gilles Villeneuve ran his first GP for McLaren in the por...
fun fact: George Harrison has sat in one
round swift
yeah he wandered in the paddock a lot, he loved F1
so i'm not surprised he'd sit in a McLaren
bright umbra
also, marlboros
exotic ravine
frosty plank
it might be just me but isn't that bottom photo indycar?
round swift
probably, but it was on the topic we were discussing
bright umbra
Is that 1973?
i think so
bright umbra
related but not F1, Damon and George playing together
damn, rip george
round swift
a real shame ye
round swift
i think so
I said 1977 after because it doesn't have a teapot
This one
they got rid of the huge airbox after the 3rd race of 1976, if that's what you mean by teapot
agile surge
Double air box
round swift
it runs a V8 so, makes sense
No like...
They were banned so
And Fezza had their intakes either side the driver which iz mad
oblique dock
round swift
That explains a bit why N/A cars lost out so much when Turbos... Preverbially spooled up
what explains it?
round swift
Well it's a ram intake... It would'nt've done much, but the ram intakes with airboxes allow a mild boost as the air has no choice but to go in the intakes
edgy tree
My old mans favorite car has always been the M23
copper cairn
plain wedge
Best F1 car of the decade
ashen estuary
idk
round swift
Well F1 started when the cold war started... In 1947
So it's kinda hard to gauge any sort of context into how the cold war conflicts affected F1, bar maybe when the first races came in, aka Hungary, in 1986
oblique dock
Under the Soviet Iron Curtain
round swift
Thought it was 1950?
exotic ravine
Best F1 car of the decade
Agreed
round swift
Thought it was 1950?
The championship started in 1950, but the regulations were already there since 46 or 47
round swift
Oh, I see
woven zinc
F1 probably wasn't affected too much by the Cold War aside from there being no drivers from Eastern Bloc countries and no races in any of them until 1986
well Bernie did try to get a Soviet GP for 1983, but even that fell through
and even that was because it ultimately didn't work out
gilded kindle
wouldnt it be nice to see this again in alpine livery?
bright umbra
cool but not classic
round swift
and even that was because it ultimately didn't work out
Oh, thanks for the info
woven zinc
you're welcome 
edgy tree
Probably the best year I watched growing up was 2007 with the 3 way title fight which didn’t need to happen but did
oblique dock
jacky ickx looks a bit like james franco
Eh.....
oblique dock
bright umbra
Prost 🥺
steel lance
jacky ickx looks a bit like james franco
He looks more like Paul Di Resta
Hehe DAMS F1
round swift
shame they couldn't find funding
edgy tree
So historically who is probably the best f1 driver?
Just curious to here what others say
wide falcon
Depends by what metric @edgy tree
edgy tree
What are the metrics commonly used?
Because comparing drivers now to the 70s is a bit of a stretch to me
round swift
My pick will be Prost or Clark for that question
round swift
thing is, Clark was in a team that had poor reliability
edgy tree
I’d take Prost over senna
round swift
one year or two more with Senna and i'd probably do the opposite, alas.
edgy tree
Schumacher looking back had a ton of strategic advantages at Ferrari
oblique dock
I’d take Prost over senna
Prost outscored Senna in 1988 and 1989 and that he's basically the most perfect F1 driver.
No nonsense, no drama, just pure commitment and consistency.
round swift
Schumacher was the fastest driver out there, capable of driving poor cars super fast
but he had many flaws, which Ferrari managed to cover
oblique dock
Senna was able to shine in the wet and overcome impressive odds, Prost was very consistent and calculated, and Schumacher was a leader who led Ferrari back to their winningest ways, even if he hit some bumps along the way.
edgy tree
Is the f2004 still the fastest car?
ashen estuary
yep
i mean the WO11 can also be really close to it
but bc of the fact that
it's more heavy
it's bigger
so more drag
and other factors
made it slower than the F2004
bright umbra
I'd say Prost is the best because he lead Renault to Championship contention then whooped lauda and then kinda got senna as well while whooping Mansell and a host of others
oblique dock
Beating former and future world champions since 1981
steel lance
i mean the WO11 can also be really close to it
I think W11 is the fastest F1 car
ashen estuary
nope
the F2004 still stands as the fastest
bc the facts i said
it was lighter
less drag
less aero
i mean
if you take in mind a lot more factors
bright umbra
Fastest would be how fast it covers a circuit correct?
ashen estuary
but the fastest speed recorded by a car
oblique dock
Top speed means nothing
ashen estuary
your right
oblique dock
Lap times matter more
bright umbra
Then the W11 completely smashes everything
bright umbra
apart from somehow Pedro De la Rosa in a 16 year old Mclaren
ashen estuary
lol
steel lance
the F2004 still stands as the fastest
no. Around monza W11 is the fastest
bright umbra
I find it to be kinda ugly
oblique dock
u wot
bright umbra
yes
ashen estuary
no. Around monza W11 is the fastest
oh lol
bright umbra
MP4/2 looks better imo
ashen estuary
bright umbra
sexy boi
oblique dock
bright umbra
yeah that one was fucking hot as well
bright umbra
Mansell as well
ashen estuary
i find the mclaren mp4/5 more sexy than the mp4/4
it looks nicer
whit the cover less bulky
the engine cover
ashen estuary
that looks so sexy
vettel actually bought a williams
FW13 or FW12
i dont remember
bright umbra
<:facepalm:645708254369808414>
this one
ashen estuary
Red 5 lol
oblique dock
i find the mclaren mp4/5 more sexy than the mp4/4
The MP4/6 looks better than the two.
steel lance
I like the front wing
round swift
/6 is the slickest McLaren of the Senna period imo
ashen estuary
ye it looks awesome
round swift
best proportions
ashen estuary
but the front wing is meh
oblique dock
So simplistic, yet so awesome.
steel lance
The MP4/6 looks better than the two.
Ooof that looks nice
bright umbra
MP4/2 might be the best marlboro mclaren imo
ashen estuary
i really like more the front wing of the 1989 car
bright umbra
looks wise
oblique dock
The MP4/7 Looks.... meh.
bright umbra
this is a close second for me
bright umbra
4/1?
oblique dock
Yes
bright umbra
4/2 was definitely better
bright umbra
Carbon Fiber Monocoque
also the start of Ron's McLaren essentially
steel lance
This looks good fight me
molten salmon
This looks good fight me
williams ❤️
molten salmon
molten salmon
my all-time favourite car, f1 or not
steel lance
is that the Alfa Romeo?
molten salmon
Lotus 49C
steel lance
ohh
molten salmon
it's Graham Hill, Nürburgring, 1969
steel lance
damn thats a good pic
molten salmon
another one of the greatest ever
oblique dock
This is (Definitely) the MP4/2
molten salmon
Gold Leaf Lotuses looked very good
fun fact, it's the first car sponsorship in f1
bright umbra
fun fact, it's the first car sponsorship in f1
thats even cooler
steel lance
Idk why
molten salmon
I love this
Lotus 72A?
steel lance
Yesss
steel lance
fun fact, it's the first car sponsorship in f1
Who were the sponsors?
molten salmon
Who were the sponsors?
Gold Leaf Tobacco Corporation
steel lance
ohh thats why the golden wing?
molten salmon
that's why the red+gold scheme, yes
steel lance
ohh okay
bright umbra
ohh thats why the golden wing?
the cigarette package was that "livery"
round swift
i prefer the OG type 49
oblique dock
Britsh Racing Green
round swift
without wings
bright umbra
also this is very hot
round swift
nor sponsorship
steel lance
the cigarette package was that "livery"
oh thats new to me
oblique dock
molten salmon
ashen estuary
i dont remember what Brabham
steel lance
oh yea i can see the resemblance
round swift
last win for Jim 😦
bright umbra
and Camel Lotuses
steel lance
This was Williams first active car right?
molten salmon
also this is very hot
brabham BT49C
bright umbra
ye
steel lance
hehe adrian newey and patrick head
oblique dock
The 99t had active suspension
steel lance
The 99t had active suspension
Mansell also drove that right?
oblique dock
What? No.
round swift
Lotus tried active suspension systems in the early 80s
oblique dock
He was at Williams during 1987
round swift
when Nigel was there
steel lance
Wait didnt he try the active suspension on a Lotus?
round swift
but it was too early so it was shit. So Nige was a bit reluctant to driver another car with it
bright umbra
with his Stache
steel lance
And had a crash or smn?
oblique dock
Mansell also drove that right?
Senna and Nakajima drove for Lotus in 1987
steel lance
Ahh okay
round swift
think Chapman was still alive when they fiddled with these
oblique dock
Didn't Chapman die in 1982?
steel lance
i think so yea
round swift
he did in like december 82
molten salmon
yep
steel lance
right before a court hearing or smn right?
steel lance
yea he fled to brazil or smn lmao
bright umbra
well, rumours happen to be rumours eh
round swift
obviously
weak ridge
I love that livery
ashen estuary
it looks awesome
edgy tree
One of my Dads favorite cars was the M23 and lotus 72
Which the M23 is probably one of the more interesting cars I’ve seen
round swift
Why!
edgy tree
Probably the engineering behind granted the 312T2 was more reliable
still violet
one of my fav classic liveries besides the 90s mclaren mercedes and williams
steel lance
Jacques was overrated
I don’t agree
I mean in 2000 he did an amazing job with that BAR car
You don’t get pole position on your first race by not being extremely talented
digital dock
Jacques annoys me a bit sometimes but he's still a great talent
steel lance
round swift
79?
steel lance
I think so ya
round swift
Big 🅱️orsche flames
low fossil
tf lol
oblique dock
Indy's pretty good if you ask me
round swift
They might not've had backfires coz they used Methanol
steel lance
lol indy isn't that good
What
steel lance
their pitstops are 12secs
So?
When did speed of pit stops determine how good a series is?
oblique dock
their pitstops are 12secs
Pitstops are one thing. Action is everything.
steel lance
their cars are mostly focest on speed not other things
you think F1 cars arent focused on speed?
round swift
yeah but also other things
agile surge
Such as
steel lance
yeah but also other things
like?
pearl torrent
yeah but also other things
like what?
vagrant pagoda
robust sonnet
noice
edgy tree
Basically sennas helmet
edgy tree
Didn’t senna punch him once?
round swift
Yeah, after Suzuka 1993
pearl torrent
Had Mazepin punched him this entire F1 fanbase would rage out
Not cuz Eddie got punched
Cuz Mazepin punched someone
potent crypt
last win for Jim 😦
1965?
white talon
wide falcon
It does if you’re about to get run over
agile surge
Correct
edgy tree
Or if your being chased by a Mercedes
cerulean bison
ponr
pearl torrent
Ferrari in 2020: 
balmy canopy
They had nothing behind them last year
ornate storm
lmao
round swift
steel lance
Jean and Alain
potent crypt
in 1995 how many appearances did Mansell have with the McLaren team?
round swift
he did 2 races
potent crypt
On which circuit?
round swift
spain and san marino
potent crypt
in 1995 how many appearances did Mansell have with the McLaren team?
Did Jan Magnussen also make an appearance that year with the McLaren team?
potent crypt
because Hakkinen was sick
Yep, due to the Hakkinen crash on the Adelaide circuit
potent crypt
no he had an appendicitis
Lol,I just found out the cause now
round swift
weak ridge
1977 Long Beach Grand Prix
vagrant pagoda
wide falcon
Is it supposed to be like that?
round swift
what is?
proven jungle
If your talking about the engine cover. They used to be uncovered
smoky furnace
round swift
- Up until the mid-80's mostly, teams would sometimes take the engine covers off if it was particularly hot
- Damn the Bandit helmets
wide falcon
Would make a modern day aerodynamicist cry
oblique dock
Jochen Mass
smoky furnace
Indeed
round swift
Would make a modern day aerodynamicist cry
They can actually breathe in them plenty tho
that's before the wing cars, when more engine power was a better thing than better aero
round swift
Wdym that's before wing cars?
This is the late 70's-early 80's
the Renault
before wing cars were the shit, most teams who had money wanted to get a more powerful engine
like Brabham leaving the Cosworth in favour of an Alfa flat-12
wraith creek
i mean for example the turbo cars vs the naturally aspirated cars
round swift
I thought you meant the helmets
wraith creek
even with the basic aero it wasnt until the 90s with homologated engines that aero was more important
round swift
Huh?
wraith creek
i was replying to the engine power comment
wraith creek
that's before the wing cars, when more engine power was a better thing than bett...
^
wraith creek
instead of allowing turbo and naturally aspirated engines at the same time basically
1 set of rules for the engines
round swift
Oh... Uhm... Sure?
wraith creek
because up until the late 80's there were teams like mclaren with 1400hp turbo engines
round swift
ah that
wraith creek
while backmarkers had to make do with a 700hp cozzie DFV
round swift
700 is very generous
wraith creek
700 is very generous
you can get 700 out of a 2jz maybe not
so thats why since the late 80s F1 has had engine eras and regulations
round swift
the cosworth isn't a japanese engine, it's a british one
round swift
DFV was like.. 480 i guess. 530 in its last year (dubbed DFY)
round swift
while backmarkers had to make do with a 700hp cozzie DFV
The DFV/DFY hit... Dammit Reb got it
they had to make an effort when everyone started using turbos
wraith creek
yup
round swift
that's why the Cosworth was still somewhat decent in 82/83
anyway. my point being: Renault didn't really care about the aero of their car
wraith creek
yeah thats what i was saying
round swift
it was really just a mule car, that RS01
first real car is the RS10 with venturi channels and two turbos
DFY was made as a more oversquared revision in 1983 to make more revs
wraith creek
aero was nearly pointless until 1988, with 1 set of engine rules and the mp4/4
because before it was about power/ground effect
wraith creek
but after GF was banned in 1980 the cars became "who could built the fastest rocket fuel powered engine"
as shown by the budgets
round swift
Lotus got good in the mid 80s thanks to good aero from Ducarouge who came from Ligier and Alfa Romeo
It was 1983...
they banned grund effects for 83 ye, 82 was the last year with it
wraith creek
rip
round swift
i mean. wing cars. not the end of ground effect
wraith creek
i am stupid
wraith creek
but they werent actually that good if you know what i mean those wings
round swift
yeah, they didn't really know what they were doing tbf
Well they still... Mattered
until it got very pragmatic with usage of the royal school of engineering wind tunnel
Like it was a reason to have the most amount of power to overcome the drag of 1984 rear wings probably
or however it's called
royal college
also, i think the idea of the venturi tunnels under the car was brought in by Phil Rudd from BRM, and it wasn't Chapman's idea
Yeah, or the experimental bodywork on the Auto Union Typ C
ah, haven't heard about this
very nice
Also the underside of the Mercedes T80 had a sculpted floor like that...
so.. that's also another thing we can put to Porsche's tribute?
think typ C was his
(or rather, his team. i expect they already had a quite large team of engineers)
Yeah I think this is the Typ C but
wraith creek
a Porsche tribute has to include a 917 (i know it isnt F1 but still)
round swift
T80 had it
i meant legacy
Look at the curve of the underside bruh
hmmm
so these are prototypes?
Well that's the T80 LSR
cause i think the only innovation used in actual races by the silver arrows was the engine at the back
Which was meant to do 750kmh/466mph I think
oh
so it's not a racing car, it's a speed record breaking car
quite amazing how they did that kind of racing with wheels so thin
Yeah the streamliners
although one of these silver arrows had two wheels at the rear
forgot which
The Type C racing one had a dually axle at like half the evnts
yeah this car was crazy
and i'm not certain it won the season
looks hot
dual axle
V16 in the rear
A 6,008cc V16 everyone says is 6,006 for some reason
Also AVUS
Where they had the first the vented wheelarches
they made so much progress, no wonder why they dominated the thing
Well Germany were the first to have a squad for a working team
It was government funded like... In a certain Austrian Angry Man's personal engineering houses, not just geezers in a shed
copper cairn
pearl torrent
I thought they were drifting for a sec 
frigid sundial
round swift
ashen estuary
Hot
pulsar wadi
that looks amazing :3
oblique dock
Belgium, 1992
supple sable
Correct
oblique dock
I also remember that it's the last ever F1 car with an H-Pattern gearbox to win a GP.
hollow mason
steel lance
Belgium, 1992
huh? didnt he make his debut in 1992?
steel lance
ah shit i confused the two
steel lance
pain
supple sable
Wasn't it from engine failure?
round swift
clutch
round swift
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3ZMEydQKog 70s cars having a 12 lap race atm btw
lol quoting Ronspeak
hope we got some 80s and 90s cars as well
bright umbra
I feel goodwood's stream is better
round swift
are they having races tho?
bright umbra
Ye?
round swift
idk i've never watched Goodwood 🙂
thought they just did a show run for the audience and a hot lap of the climbhill
verbal blade
these cars look so slow
round swift
these ones are
bright umbra
Okay I do not understand what is happening right now
Its supposed to be sportscars right?
oh
monaco is using BST?
round swift
no
graceful crystal
thought they just did a show run for the audience and a hot lap of the climbhill
Goodwoods great, sometimes ppl really throw the old cars around in anger
talking about the track not the hillclimb
round swift
ok 🙂
bright umbra
niki lauda era
round swift
oh yes, mid 70s nice
bright umbra
That surtees TS19 though 😩
bright umbra
is he driving the t or the b3?
round swift
b3, it has the red airbox
and it's still very boxy and not very arrowy
and wide nose
bright umbra
the sound, mamma mia
bright umbra
b3, it has the red airbox
ahh, ooh okay
round swift
ye man, that 180 degree V12 sounds awesome
round swift
i like how in the hands of amateur drivers, slow cars can outqualify much faster ones
Flat-12's or V12's?
the 312B3 shouldn't be ahead of a McLaren M26 lol
Ferrari had a V12 at 180
not boxer configuration
obviously, the actual GP winner gets the best st art
Yes
Flat
Just answer bruh 😤
Ferrari called it a flat-12
which is technically correct
Bruh why is it when the two came by it sounded like a current V6
but usually, "flat" engines are boxers
i wonder if other manufacturers than Ferrari made a flat V12 like this
putting F1 aside
JUST ANSWER THE QUESTION
what?
Like the only Boxer 12 I know of is the Subaru, so it doesn't matter bruh
V12's or Flat-12's?
it's a V12
ultra wide
(180 degree angle)
but it behaves like a V12
even Ferrari called it boxer sometimes, like in the road car 512BB
for Boxer Berlinetta iirc.
but it's not a boxer, it's a V12
Boxer engines were made by Porsche and Subaru, basically.
You're too annoying bruv
i don't see why seriously 
i've tried answering to your question the best i could.
You're not answering any question
I'm asking do you prefer Flat-12's or V12's
And you give me a lecture on the difference between Flats and Boxers that I already know
ohhhhh
wait when did you ask which i prefered
round swift
Flat-12's or V12's?
there?
anyway. i don't know how flat-12s sound so i can't answer without hearing one
Oh
Oof
Sorry...
np haha
917's, 312's, 512's have all the flatties... Or the Matras
i'll check the porsches.
round swift
oh fuck
well i won't see another Alesi win
xd
OH NO THE
that's a strange one
Oh they did touch...
apparently yes
bright umbra
NO the Surtees
I guess the durex sponsoring didn't protect the car smh
Wait Red Flag
molten salmon
f
round swift
well, that was a very exciting race to watch
Somebody put oh no the condom broke
Liberty Media, you know what to do!
bright umbra
These are millions of dollars in damage eh
bright umbra
brilliant track choice monaco
round swift
ye it worked v ery well
bright umbra
I was being sarcastic lmao
zenith pebble
thatll be coming out of their paychecks
round swift
honestly it works with these old cars
bright umbra
77-80 will be exciting
bright umbra
Is Werner wanting to apologise to alesi?
round swift
i hope he will
at least because the car is damaged
oh they've penalised him?
That's cringe
Jean missed a gear when he's always faster off the line with that car
yeah that's a shame
oh yeee dude's got a watch as well.
molten salmon
lyons has now won too races in a row
round swift
Imagine putting politics in a friendly
woven zinc
I wonder if and when post-1980 F1 cars will be eligible for the Historic Monaco GP
round swift
That penalty is sour bruh
bright umbra
I don't even think it was Werner's fault
round swift
ye it's very harsh
No it's not, a Penalty is only for something that's pre-meditated
round swift
oh shit already?
round swift
wait the hesketh livery what
I'm in the shower what's up with the Hesketh?
bright umbra
its a weird one
round swift
don't they have a Penthouse livery or sth like that
bright umbra
they do
but there is a woman in a green dress on it as well
Merzario is stalled?
lmao lyons is driving the hesketh
bright umbra
wait by penthouse, is it the magazine?
oblique dock
At least it isn't the Durex sponsored Surtees or... this.
round swift
Lyons is hella fast as well, qualified 2nd with it
woven zinc
At least it isn't the Durex sponsored Surtees or... this.
oh god that car
bright umbra
Wait, Delatraz?
bright umbra
Lyons is hella fast as well, qualified 2nd with it
yeah, quite fast. He never made it to F1?
bright umbra
are they using the right flag for grogor?
round swift
got a feeling we'll have another tight race between the top 2
which flag is Grogor's meant to be, Jordan?
the gap they've pulled out already
Grogor come on, take the proper line
LOTUS 81
he probably brushed the wall again?
now Lyons just have to stay off the walls
Toe's gone
also for your previous question, i dislike how the 917 engine sounds. too deep i prefer them more trebly.
so v12 it is
(but then maybe it's just because its displacement is humongous)
Nah nah nah Flat-12's seem to have a very deep noise, they don't seem to screamy from examples
round swift
but i remember they had a parade race with 917s, different variants at the RB Ring when i was there
the pink 1970 917 sounded the best to me, despite being the slowest
it screamed power
i don't remember how gp2 sounds tbh
both Arrows out F
molten salmon
honestly even though it pains me to see cars break it is really nice to see them actually racing
round swift
yeah
molten salmon
had it just been like parade laps it'd be boring af
round swift
They sound so much like them
The older GP2's had 4L V8's so you're making sense
molten salmon
these cars are made to race
round swift
Ooh double puncture
and they're not really short shifting to save the engine and whatnot
like you often see on youtube videos
oh that's a nasty one lol
NOT THE TYRRELL'S
at least the Ligier is on the podium
which wasn't easy cause he started from very far iirc
round swift
also for your previous question, i dislike how the 917 engine sounds. too deep i...
https://youtu.be/teFADi-EjYo apart from this
180ﾟ V12
D:
this sounds great
so i'll say
180 degree V12 > other V12 > boxer-12
The only Boxer-12 I know of is the Subaru
That sucked
The Porsche, Ferrari and Mercs were flats
mhm, alright my bad, thought Porsche only did Boxers
guess it's lost in translation. in french "moteur à plat" can refer to either boxer, or 180 degree V
while in english flat-12 seems to only mean 180 degree V?
round swift
Well I say Flat for 180°V, and Boxer
The common consensus seems to say 180°V or Flat
But I find that cumbersome
i'll keep that in mind, flat is faster anyway
than one-hundred-and-eighty-degrees-v-angle
sudden oyster
sharp orbit
Twitter
round swift
ashen estuary
The only Boxer-12 I know of is the Subaru
The subaru Boxer was actually a good engine
it fitted very well in da Impreza
wait
no yes
it was good
round swift
The subaru Boxer was actually a good engine
The... F1 Engine... The 3.5L 12-Cylinder Boxer
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ashen estuary
Hole MCnell Balls
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https://drivetribe.imgix.net/QBbFPCWAQQaMVncEbxpcQg
what a piece of unreliable crap
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Bruuuugh
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More semi-disappointment!
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semi?
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Well I can't remember if it was ass
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all the zakspeed cars and engines were ass
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And not a good ass
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This craze for arrow shaped cars in 83/84 is funny
real grotto
dry estuary
Yeah here is completely fine
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It is
vagrant pagoda
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I prefer the 1992 one... Imma say it
ashen estuary
potent crypt
94 Jordan?
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I think it's the Jordan 192
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1992 Jordan <:f1:740277316533485648>
If Jordan had stuck with Ford engines for 1992, then maybe they would put in some potentially respectable results in the WCC
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If Jordan had stuck with Ford engines for 1992, then maybe they would put in som...
They didn't have the money to keep it after Pepsi withdrew sadly
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They had no way of keeping Fords for 1992, and as a result Yamaha provided them V12's for free
That's not even like a ahah bro it's basically free no Yamaha thought F1 was the best R&D ground for engine building so they just wanted someone to take em
steel lance
Well its cause Benetton didnt want them to have it if I'm not wrong
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... Oh that was it. For 1992 or 1993 Cosworth were planning to make their VB type V12, which never ended up getting out of testing
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Eddie Jordan is not long happy to have got his hands on Michael Schumacher: a few days before the race, a bailiff shows up at the Silverstone factory to seize his equipment. The Irishman is accused of having pocketed 7.5 million Belgian francs to run one of his foals, Philippe Adams, in F3. The deal did not materialize but Jordan did not return the money. Adams sued and won. The court therefore pronounced the seizure. To get by, Jordan borrows the sum from Bernie Ecclestone who draws from the cashier of the Spadoise ticket office! As misfortune never comes alone, the partnership between Ford and the green team should end at the end of this season. Jordan claimed in fact for 1992 the V-series V currently used by Benetton, but Michael Kranefuss - "advised" by Flavio Briatore - only granted him the series IV. Suddenly, he could recover the Yamaha V12, provided he meets a satisfactory budget, which is still far from the case ...
[...]
And here's how. Jochen Neerpasch (Mercedes' competition director) wants above all to offer an excellent seat to Schumacher, so that he is already a seasoned champion when Mercedes arrives in F1, in 1993 or 1994. For this, a few days after the Spa test, he asks the two Benetton bosses, Flavio Briatore and Tom Walkinshaw, to find out if they would be interested in the young German. They obviously dream of clinching the star of tomorrow. Satisfied, Neerpasch guarantees them that no contract binds the driver to Jordan. At the same time, Walkinshaw confided to Willi Weber that Ford would no longer power Jordan in 1992. Then, during private tests, Schumacher learned from Trevor Foster, the team manager of the Irish team, that they will likely use the mediocre Yamaha V12s next year. In short, the prodigy risks ending up on a siding! Walkinshaw puts the market in Weber's hands: if Schumacher wants to join a top-team, namely Benetton-Ford, and earn a generous salary (instead of being a paying driver ...), it's now or never ! The businessman does not have much difficulty in convincing his client. Schumacher says banco. Briatore and Neerpasch entrust their lawyers with the drafting of a juicy contract.
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> Eddie Jordan is not long happy to have got his hands on Michael Schumacher: a ...
Damn. Didn't know there was a lot involved.
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in the end, Schumacher didn't drive for Mercedes in F1 until 2010 lol
woven zinc
yeah
but he could've driven for McLaren in the 90s
instead of Ferrari
and McLaren was the team that got the Merc engines in '95...
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but he could've driven for McLaren in the 90s
Glad he didn't.
woven zinc
why?
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I just don't think that he would have achieve the same amount of success with Ferrari. (Although Mclaren was dominant in 1998 and 1999) Secondly, Schumacher would face some reliability issues with the Peugeot/Merc engines at some points. But speaking of Mercedes, him at Mclaren in the mid-late 1990's would be a pretty good thing, just to potentially boost Mercedes' involvement in F1 or something.
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McLaren was in contention in 2000 and 2003 as well. Ferrari wouldn't have been so dominant without him so it's possible he'd have clinched more titles
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yea
woven zinc
McLaren was in contention in 2000 and 2003 as well. Ferrari wouldn't have been s...
and who knows how they would've been in 2001 and 2002, depending on if Byrne and Brawn still would've been with Ferrari around this time
or they would've joined Schumi at McLaren at some point as well
delicate plover
david coulthard testing for williams in 1993
ive never seen the sonic sega legs so prominent before; i love it
raw marten
steel lance
david coulthard testing for williams in 1993
I didnt even realize that was there
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It's probably been posted already but this sounds so damn mean
12,000rpm les go
I see 12,600 for the 1974 version. But then we've established my sauce wasn't exactly reliable
Still they had a 45 bhp advantage on the dfv, more than 10%
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Well I can hear he's shifting at 11,600 or so
There is a point over the bump where it hits 12,200
Bearing in mind they might turn it down just a touch for reliability
ye
but they didn't turn it down all that much, which was great
Ferrari themselves say it makes 490bhp @ 12,500 so
ok 🙂
So you're not wrong
I'd love to make a new Flat-12 bruh...
oh ye
imagine what we could do with modern alloys
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I'd love to make a new Flat-12 bruh...
What about Flat-8's?
Not a lot has been said about them.
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Tho maybe I'd be biased towards 144°V10's, 120°V12's and 135°V16's
Well most V10's have been 90°V's
So I see no issue with making 180°V10's with the Same firing order
Cue that Connaught X20
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Cue that Connaught X20
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Yeah
was a flat 10 used in F1?
No
The widest V10 I've seen is the Renault RS23 112°V10
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What about the Judd GV4?
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That's 72°
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nvm i thought you were talking about the width of the engine
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I kinda am, coz the widest one will be a Flat
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Well, they are 180 degrees after all.
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what would be the drawbacks of doing a 120 degree V12 instead of like 60 degree
in mechanical terms, not centre of gravitry
F1 V10's were 67°, 68°, 72°, 75°, 90°, 111° and 112°
There isn't one
Afaik
since it's also a multiple of 2 pi?
What?
it just has the same firing intervals
what i've understood was the angle of the V for an engine was almost always 720 degree / number of pistons
idk why
Yeah it is
Idk what pi has to do with it
720 degree = 2 * pi rad
... Right sure
That's not how you apply this but okay
You have 720° because that's how many degrees you have in a 4 stroke engine
Then divide it by the number of pistons, that gives you your bank angle multiple, because that'll mean you'll have no uneven power pulses
ok, so that's why flat engines are typically 6 or 12 pistons
So every 60° of a V12's spin, you'll have 1 pulse
If you have say a 90°V12, one will go off evey 90°, and the next will go off at 30°
and not 8 or 10
Well Flat-8's have been done, coz that's double the bank angle
So it's fine
But for a Flat-12, that's 3 times, so it's also fine
ah ye 720 / 8 = 90, so 180 is double that.
Yeah, so for every multiple of 60° for 12, 90° for 8, 72° for 10, etc etc, you'll have an even firing engine
Although that being said, an odd-firing V12 has enough cylinders to run odd without any sort of issues, hence being ran at 75° by Ferrari in 1994-1995
And Flat-Plane V8's can be run at 72 or so
ok 🙂
Basically you can run moreorless any bank angle when you have 8 or above, but of course it's a compromise if it's a weird number, usually
ye i see
on this note, why did we have to wait for 1989 to get V10s? think NA engines were almost only inline-4s V8 or V12 up to that point
then suddenly the V10 appears and becomes the best compromise between V8 and V12
Because I guess it was almost... Laughed off?
It wasn't until Group 🅱️ where some 5 cylinder was a thing for a car, a racing car with petrol at that
the Quattro was 5 cyl wasn't it
Honda made a 3L V10 for 1982, but the writing was on the wall for N/A engines at the time
so, don;'t tell me it's just some weird traditionalism that had the sports wait for so long?
I would assume so
Porsche made one in 1936? At a fair for a certain party
Ford had tested a 144°V10 in the 50's or 40's
Honda had theirs in 1982
And the first to fully send was Alfa Romeo in 1986
"As long as I'm alive, there won't be V10 engines in Formula 1"
- Enzo Ferrari, probably
He was wrong about that
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Honda made a 3L V10 for 1982, but the writing was on the wall for N/A engines at...
wat
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ye i think i've already seen this picture
Dammit Reb
so what do you think of this caprice of Senna to have a V12 from 91 onwards
instead of the V10 which was working already extremely well
(probably not only his idea i hope)
What?
In addition, Honda presented at the Tokyo Motor Show a Formula 1 V12, without specifying its date of entry into service. Experts believe it will power McLarens in 1991, hence the deal with Tyrrell regarding the V10.
In Imola and Monte-Carlo, Ayrton Senna and Gerhard Berger complained about several failures of their Honda V10s. The blocks in question were transported to Japan for examination. However, according to Eric Silbermann, the press secretary of the Japanese firm, the famous loss of power observed by the two pilots on the Rock did not exist. This conclusion irritates Senna who does not like to be taken for a fool: “I think I have enough experience to know if my engine has a problem. And that was the case in Monaco. He warns McLaren and Honda that he is "looking for the best car for 1991." In other words, he will have no qualms about looking elsewhere if things do not improve.
Senna is in fact impatiently awaiting the arrival of the Honda V12 scheduled for 1991. According to him, the Japanese V10 is now in competition with the Renault.
ye ok that wasn't his idea obviously, but he pushed for it
no real clue why they went for it in the end
short glade
when #classic-motorsport becomes #f1-technical
short glade
yes
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no real clue why they went for it in the end
Oh you're asking why they moved to a V12?
Probably coz it was smoother and Honda was ahead so it made sense
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https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Honda_F1_trial_engine_(1982)_front_2014_...
hot damn
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Probably coz it was smoother and Honda was ahead so it made sense
Ok :) ye that's what i was wondering
Yeah, I assume Honda were also just better at it
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... just realised he'd been WDC with V6, V10 and V12
he's certainly the only one to do so
I love just looking at these
they're certainly pretty pieces of engineering
Hence me not wanting them to go
go where?
Away from cars?
ah ye
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well, i don't see how these huge and thirsty NA engines would come back before... 2030 at least
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... just realised he'd been WDC with V6, V10 and V12
I think he's also the only driver to win a race with a V6, V8, V10, and V12
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I think he's also the only driver to win a race with a V6, V8, V10, and V12
Was about to say Prost, but he doesn't qualify for the V8 bit.
Have the Flat-12 gamers
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Was about to say Prost, but he doesn't qualify for the V8 bit.
The only V8 car he drove was his first, the Mclaren M30
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ye. and he didn't win a race with dat
And then he won races from 1981-1990, while capturing 3 world championships.
What a legend.
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Interesting how Ferrari and Alfa's ancillaries are driven on the opposite sides
bright umbra
And then he won races from 1981-1990, while capturing 3 world championships.
Prost is considered one of the best drivers ever for a reason
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ye checked the stats, Senna is definitely the only one to win with 6, 8, 10 and 12 cylinder engines
The best engine
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The second best engine
woven zinc
The second best engine
nah the best engine is undisputably the Life W12 engine
with the 1991 Porsche engine being the 2nd best
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with the 1991 Porsche engine being the 2nd best
oh yeah... that. But hold on, what about the Yamaha V8 that powered the 1989 Zakspeed?
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Oh it's the 5-Valve JUDD... JV?
No wait JV's were the OX11's
It's the OX88 but it was based on either a DFZ or a JUDD EV
In regards to Porsche... I would've loved to've seen what the Type.980 could've done in 3.5/5.0/5.5L racing forms in all it's applications that never came to fruition
woven zinc
oh yeah... that. But hold on, what about the Yamaha V8 that powered the 1989 Zak...
oh yeah...
steel lance
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Tamiya Model time
molten salmon
@white ether not entirely correct there in your poll question, Williams' first F1 car was the the Iso-Marlboro IR / Iso-Marlboro FW / Williams FW
white ether
Well isn't the Williams we know different from Iso-M IR Williams?
In terms of the Williams we know today, Williams started as a team in 1977 and an actual constructor in 1978, but Wolf-Williams in 1976 was almost like McLaren-Mercedes in 1998-2009
The team's history is almost the same with Renault we have rn being Toleman in the past and a separate entity to the first Renault in the 80's and both Lotus back in 2010-2015 to the original Lotus
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RB14??
ashen estuary
LOL what?
that isn't the RB14 mate
that is
idk
a ferrari from the 50s i think
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RB14??
I know that isn't the RB14, Im just ask abaut pics of it
ask in #f1-hq-photos-and-videos 🙂
near tapir
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copper cairn
low wagon
Guys tomorrow is May 1, you know what it means
copper cairn
bright umbra
27 years since the darkest weekend in recent motorsport history
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still hoping for it to be the last weekend this dark.
final zealot
27 years since the darkest weekend in recent motorsport history
he was one of the GOATS no cap
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Zakspeed tested this... And I rate the scheme
looks more interesting than the West livery
potent crypt
I want to ask, did Paletti only do 2 races before his death at the 1982 Canadian GP?
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he was engaged in 8 GP but only took part in 2, mostly not qualify/pre qualify
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potent tendon
hollow crag
white ether
This pic kinda sus... looks like Assetto Corsa
wide falcon
When the assetto is corsa
bright umbra
Big ol' M23?
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mhm
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tyres at the rear were 16.2" tall, and 9.2" at the front if i read this correctly
26" wide rear, 20" wide front
bright umbra
those were some thicc bois at the rear
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ye
bright umbra
sex boi
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saw one at the retromobile show in Paris
Richard Mille basically had all the interesting McLarens
M23, MP4/4, MP4/13..
_front_2014_Honda_Collection_Hall.jpg){kind=link}
bright umbra
Yeah
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they had the.. M14A