classic-motorsport

[paper fossil]

I would say natural ability wise he shall forever remain in the top 3

What I think would have happened without Champman is a lesser level of perfection in peformance

To a degree it is all self fulfilling because the way Clark drove needed to be like that to finish GP’s consistently with a Lotus

[wary oak]

Lmao I wasn't sure if this was f1 classic or something else, they renamed all of the channels

Question, do you know what the records are for most Consecutive Pole Positions, and most Consecutive Front Rows? I believe Senna has one of these but I'm not totally sure

[past drift]

Poles: 8 for Senna, between Spain 88 and USA 89
Second most for consecutive poles is also him with 7: Spain 90 to Monaco 91

Most consecutive front rows: Senna too with 24 between Germany 88 and Straya 89
Then Sir Lewis with 20 between Belgium 2014 and Italy 2015

so I believe even with Lewis having most poles nowadays, you can argue Senna still is the best qualifier ever

both had the best cars by far when achieving that

[raw lagoon]

I love the MP 4/4

[wary oak]

The goat of qualifying, is it either Fangio or Senna?

Fangio qualified an average 1.78 position in 51 races whereas Senna qualified an average 3.15 in 161 races

[past drift]

that's always debatable

i'll still say Senna because the competition was stronger in his time than in Fangio's

[sour moon]

Wrong, it’s Charles Leclerc

[round swift]

Alpine barbie car 😍

[wary oak]

Wrong it’s Logan Sargeant

[raw lagoon]

Wrong it's Nicholas Goatifi

[wary oak]

My bad

[indigo phoenix]

Hello there to Ronnie!

[spiral aspen]

Iconic picture

[native patrol]

watching the 2000 german gp rn, great race 2-3 laps to go

[wary oak]

Which race had highest number of WDCs on the podium? Would it be 1993 Spanish GP?

[paper fossil]

6 combined at the time

[wary oak]

Yes at the time, but I mean overall as it stands in 2024

I think 2012 European GP would be second

[paper fossil]

i can't believe the only man available for word there is prost now

and a man in great shape i must say

[indigo phoenix]

Yeah... man.

[feral raven]

How about Canada 2023?

[indigo phoenix]

At the time they had a combined 11, now with hindsight 12, soon to be 13

[river cave]

At the time 6, in hindsight yes it would stand as the most with 14

Interesting point, Spain 1993 was the only time Prost, Senna and Schumacher shared a podium in their entire careers

[past drift]

if only the Michael retired a bit after 2006, say 2009

we could have had Vettee Sir Lewis and The Michael on the same podium

[river cave]

It could have happened had Michael stayed on another year or two

Vettel in the Red Bull, Michael in the 2013 Merc and Lewis somewhere else

Maybe Ferrari

I know Lewis was offered a red Bull contract at one point but I doubt he would've taken it while Seb was still there

[dusty token]

3 from each Senna and Prost right?

[past drift]

yes, it's only the 5th race of the 93 season so Prost doesn't have his 4th title yet

[wary oak]

Yeah I think that’s the most currently, 14. It’s crazy to think that was over 30 years ago…

Man time flies!

[indigo phoenix]

Theres Max Vettel and Hamilton, which atm equal that

And will surpass it this year unless shit goes crazy😭

[woven zinc]

yeah it really sucks 😦

[tired mica]

I love this car

[night hare]

The black and orange teams are considered classic now

[wary oak]

damn that's trueeee

[indigo phoenix]

Crazy how many titles that is

[idle gale]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qo8Ou4col94&ab_channel=AidanMillward

[paper fossil]

Split up of Matra and Tyrrell didn’t really happen like that. It actually was rather amicable and all because of Simca

[past drift]

what of it?

[paper fossil]

Ken had an argument about running the V12s I mean no apart from anything Simca just wasn’t prepared to supply another team with Stewart in the car

They would have happily taken him aboard for the Matra Simca works team but Stewart wasn’t interested

[past drift]

ok 😄

[paper fossil]

In fact Ken asked Lagardère about using an older car for the season

And it was out of the question for Simca

[past drift]

still not sure what Simca did tbh

[paper fossil]

Buy them

Money

They did Le Mans and won

[past drift]

Matra bought Simca right

[paper fossil]

But yeah the F1 split was unfortunate

Tbf yeah it wasn’t bought out

Or anything

It was an agreement

[past drift]

oh yeah i see now

[paper fossil]

Simca was part of Chrysler Europe if I recall

It basically rubber stamped the idea of a road car

And then the use of the V12 in motorsport

[past drift]

correct

[paper fossil]

As opposed to the previous waiting game of convenience with Ken

Because Matra alone couldn’t back it

[past drift]

it was simca who enforced that, not Matra ?

[paper fossil]

Supposedly

[past drift]

L

now Simca doesn't really exist

[paper fossil]

Nice sounding engine

At least

[past drift]

yes

[paper fossil]

Oh yeah well Simca fell down the toilet didn’t it in the 70s

Chrysler Europe collapsed

Then became PSA

Now Stellantis

[round swift]

I hate stellantis

they killed the hemi

[past drift]

i've only heard of the Simca 1000, from my dad

[paper fossil]

Talbot took up the slack for Matra concerns

And Ligier backing also

Until then not

[past drift]

and they stuck with the V12 forever

not willing to make a turbo for 83 iirc

[paper fossil]

I think the good thing is as soon as Matra stopped working with Ligier

They were useless

[past drift]

in motorsports yes

[paper fossil]

It was effectively just the works team

[past drift]

cause they designed the original Renault Espace

and built the Espaces up to gen 3

they probably are behind the Espace F1 too

[paper fossil]

Good engineering outfit

Probably highly under appreciated

Some of the great innovations do come to Matras door

It is usually Lotus and Chapman who get the praise for being F1 geniuses

But a lot of the great ideas came from latter BRMs (Peter Wright)

[past drift]

yeah

it wasn't Chapman who found out ground effect, it was BRM's Phil Rudd iirc

[paper fossil]

And as soon as someone else took up their ideas they did it better

And developed

Lotus fell back

[past drift]

yeah

Lotus was like Renault in that regard

they were the early pioneers of some difficult technology

once they made it work, other teams took it and made it work better

[paper fossil]

Tony Rudd is the name you are thinking of

[past drift]

yes

[paper fossil]

Mostly Wright though

Iirc

He had drawings that Surtees saw

[past drift]

Phil Rudd is the drummer from AC/DC haha

[paper fossil]

March tried it

With Robin Herd

Also

[past drift]

yeah Herd also tried lots of stuff

[paper fossil]

Herd incredibly underrated too

[paper fossil]

https://open.spotify.com/episode/3kMpn0LbY70YYfN0Rm3BL9?si=Xki0WX43TKOFyZ-NcwN7FQ&context=spotify%3Ashow%3A74upRMOSpYqPzzkhgIux4n

Some great quotes in here

[river cave]

is there more than 5 anyway?

There's Peter Collins, Mike Hawthorn, John Surtees, Nigel Mansell and now Oliver Bearman

that all i can come up with off the top of my head

[paper fossil]

There is more dear god

Brooks

Mike Parkes

Jonathan Williams

Cliff Allison

Derek Bell

Then Irvine

[past drift]

yeah Tony Brooks was quite good

[south umbra]

Could someone explain why the “West” logo is removed/censored from some modelcar versions of the 1998 mclaren?

[slow grail]

tobacco bad

and tobacco advertisement bad

so teams censor it to get around advertisement bans

[south umbra]

Well it’s on a modelcar man

They’re supposed to be accurate

The 1997 still had the West logo

[slow grail]

only sometimes

british gp

[south umbra]

Ah

Thank u

[slow grail]

that said though here's a modelcar with the west logo

[lusty reef]

@wanton vigil

[wanton vigil]

@lusty reef

[south umbra]

Yea

I said some

This one doesn’t either

Ah nvm it’s the 2005

[green walrus]

Overtake on 2 cars (F1 2012)

[slender veldt]

#f1-games mate

[paper fossil]

“The nuns must have been appalled as they watched this tall English man, with long hair slicked back with Brylcreem, a trim moustache and a twinkle in his eye, insist on once again undressing this defenceless man.” - Stewart on his 1966 Belgian GP rescue by Graham Hill and Bob Bondurant

[indigo phoenix]

Is that Beltoise

[paper fossil]

yes

1968 Spanish GP at Jarama

Stewart had broken his right wrist here in an F2 meeting

Think Tyrrell lot have said this Monaco and Belgium were missed opportunities for the first GP win

[desert plover]

Can someone tell me why Schumacher qualified so low at the 2003 Japanese Grand Prix? Literally can’t find anything online

https://external-preview.redd.it/_6EFJ0WjED9SZK3empiLa4CTuTvcfh719qqEBvaCt0s.jpg?auto=webp&s=7fab5031f0a428ee06cede1411fa8ecfd2550c9b

[past drift]

wet/dry quali

[river cave]

Christ I forgot Irvine even existed

The fact that he could've been Ferrari's first champion since Scheckter in 79

[paper fossil]

Funny

Ferrari funny

They literally occupy the weakest world champions club

With their drivers

Phil Hill and Hawthorn

[tired mica]

Wasn’t Irvine irish?

[paper fossil]

northern irish

therefore british

[midnight bluff]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuDph43dMik

[tired mica]

Wait fr?

[wary oak]

What Grand Prix is this from?

[past drift]

Spain 79?

[wary oak]

No but it is from 1979

It was a non-championship race

[past drift]

ah

well that makes it easier

Dino Ferrari Grand Prix

[wary oak]

DAMN

[past drift]

there's only 2 non championship races in 79. and in the first of them Ferrari still ran the T3

[wary oak]

Which race was the T3 raced at

[past drift]

Race of Champions

[wary oak]

There was also a Gunnar Nilsson Memorial Trophy time trial race in 1979

[past drift]

time trial?

so it was not a Grand Prix?

[wary oak]

It was to help raise money for cancer research

because gunnar had cancer and was terminal

[past drift]

yeah i remember that sad case

[wary oak]

"The Memorial Trophy was planned as a non-championship F1 race, with a full grid, but the Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile (FIA), the sport's governing body, refused to recognise the event and most of the teams withdrew."

[wary oak]

One of the last pictures taken of Jim Clark. Rest in Peace Jimmy. March 4 1936 - April 7 1968

[hidden wraith]

My favorite driver ever, may he rest in peace ❤️

[river cave]

is that at Hockenheim?

[paper fossil]

God ideal in 1976 the Ferrari was illegal from the Belgian GP to the Italian

But neither the team or the scrutineers knew the rules so it wasn't picked up until Mosport

McLaren couldn't be arsed to protest

[past drift]

illegal on what fronts?

[paper fossil]

Mainly the position in which the gearbox oil cooler was mounted

Didn't say it gave a performance advantage

[past drift]

was it a fvisible part of the car?

[paper fossil]

I would hazard a guess at no

[dusty token]

He sadly passed away on my birthday, may you race in heaven James "Jim" Clark.

[wary oak]

Yes

Schumacher had a violent crash (300 km/h) during a testing session at Monza, 2004. He was unhurt.

[paper fossil]

god

i seem to remember it being a pisstake how michael should have won that gp

and yet didn't

can't remember if it was much like those races he basically handed to rubens in 02

[river cave]

Oh man

That's a rough one then

[river cave]

It was a wet to dry race for Monza 04, Rubens also seems to have the edge over Michael already in qualifying

Was probably just one of those races where Michael was off after just winning the title and Rubens came in swinging like Silverstone 03

[river cave]

Bizarrely this reminds me of James Courtney's crash when he was testing with Jaguar at Monza

Similarly violent crash, apparently the first person he saw when he regained consciousness was Michael telling him he was alright and translating everything to the Italian medics trackside

[wary oak]

I couldn't find any pictures or videos of jame's crash but that kinda reminds me of Ayrton Senna and Erik Comas at the Belgium GP

[river cave]

i recommend looking into it

he was touted as the next Australian F1 driver before Webber and the crash he had really messed him up, ended up being paralyzed for a while

it could also be said that Courtney's crash is what opened the door for Webber to come through to F1

[distant garnet]

https://youtu.be/Vvb7n7CwgMM?si=wrOqMjfrIzDi19P8

The quality is so cooked

[runic spire]

But ferrari were bothered enough to tell the fia that the mclaren was to wide

[idle gale]

In Memory of Ted Toleman

[past drift]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/76/1985_European_GP_Teo_Fabi.jpg/1200px-1985_European_GP_Teo_Fabi.jpg

[spiral aspen]

The best pic in F1 history imo

[past drift]

https://i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article1872545.ece/ALTERNATES/s1227b/Ayrton-Senna-Alain-Prost-Nigel-Mansell-and-Nelson-Piquet.jpg

reminder that Prost is short

Senna at 1.76m
Prost at 1.65m
Mansell at 1.8m
Piquet at 1.73m

[spiral aspen]

😂

[feral raven]

What’s that in feet?

[past drift]

no clue i use metric

[feral raven]

Ok lmao

[paper fossil]

5ft 9, 5ft 5, 5ft 11 and 5ft 8

[hardy briar]

Not short, just mass optimized

[round swift]

Greatness symbolized in one photo

[round swift]

Is that Imola '94?

[wary oak]

I think so

[zealous solstice]

looks like an old le mans car smashed with a hammer to reduce the ground clearance

[paper fossil]

this is the matra ms9

a conversion of its f2 car to run a dfv

that only started 1 gp

and was really competitive considering

jackie made the absolutely correct choice in racing for Ken and it already showed with 1 gp

i should probably get a whole description of quotes about it

[past drift]

for 1970?

[paper fossil]

no for 1968

[river cave]

yes

[paper fossil]

The MS9 was derived from the MS7 Formula 2 car, which had its engine held in place by two extensions to the monocoque that Crombac described as like “two trouser legs connected to the torso”. The problem with this chassis was that it had been designed to accommodate Matra's V12 engine, which was narrower than the Cosworth V8 that Tyrrell would be using. So, to minimise complication during engine changes, Bernard Boyer, the chassis designer, provided a small spaceframe with the sole purpose of holding the rear suspension in place when the engine was removed. This frame went into a lyre-shaped bulkhead situated around the gearbox that was then attached to the suspension.

[exotic hatch]

How succesful was mika salo in f1? I know about most finnish f1 drivers but not much of mika salo

[desert terrace]

He was alright

He was a good driver, but usually in poor cars.

Known for being rivals to Hakkinen in the junior formulae

[exotic hatch]

Ok cool

[past drift]

that’s not a classic? 🤔 it’s too recent

[round swift]

It might not be a classic, but will always be classic for me.

[wary oak]

He stood in for Schumacher when he broke his legs, and scored two podiums from six races with Ferrari

Other than that, that's pretty much it

[past drift]

he wasn't bad, but aside from that stint with Ferrari he couldn't approach a top team

did the team game by letting Irvine win in Germany too

[wary oak]

He wasn't bad, he was just mediocre I would say

https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/81ceyi/random_driver_highlight_22_mika_salo/

[paper fossil]

i mean

very good years in 95-96

given the year Katayama had over Blundell in 94

97 he has the measure of Verstappen who again is a good driver

would say he was wildly inconsistent in the Ferrari stint

[paper fossil]

left to right: Niki Lauda, Robin Herd, Ronnie Peterson and and Max Mosley

[hidden wraith]

Sad Ronnie passed away as early as he did as he had a chance for a WDC

[past drift]

he didn't really have a chance for a WDC, contractually

[hidden wraith]

Yeah

He was gonna move to McLaren tho after the 78 season

[past drift]

not gonna have a WDC chance with them unless he sticks around for 82 lol

[hidden wraith]

Yeah

I did saw his grave in Örebro two years ago

[paper fossil]

Possible

But the issue lies within the relationships Mayer had with his drivers towards the end

Though must be said earlier on he was really good

Caldwell was actually an utter arse apparently

Think he might have had an ego

Maybe still does

Peterson was apparently easy going as anyone to work with

Would make sense given the sacrifices he made in 78

It is a case of natural career end or having a better team on offer then probably

[meager pewter]

The spicy gauges

[river cave]

Given the choice to stick with Lucky Strike because of the Honda/Japan colours, interesting to see Button in a 555 suit for China

[past drift]

they used 555 for most or the asian market

thibk they also did in japan, and turkey in 2006

[paper fossil]

interesting to see luca up there

can't say i recall him being up there that much in his second stint at the Scuderia

[paper fossil]

was just China 04-06

they ran some more Petrol Ofisi branding on the car in Turkey 2006

[past drift]

ahhhh ye u right

[lone forge]

I’ve always really liked the 555 livery Honda used for the Chinese Grand Prix in 2006

[round swift]

if it werent for reliablity, this man could have been 5,6,7 times world champion.

[paper fossil]

"no such thing as bad luck... only bad engineering" - JYS

[round swift]

is that sainz old car

dang the older cars look weird

[wary oak]

That’s the 1999 Ferrari (F399), driven by Eddie Irvine

Mika Salo and Michael Schumacher

[past drift]

isn't it Salo in that pic

oh yes it says Salo.

[wary oak]

Yup

[tough junco]

salo the "real" hockenheim winner

did you guys know an f2 car once qualified 3rd on an f1 grid (and not in 52-53)

[past drift]

67?

[tough junco]

yeah

ickx at the nurburgring was just messed up

[past drift]

he really excelled at this track

scored his last win there

[paper fossil]

He was 3rd in the classification

Dropped back down for the starting grid

Being an F2 car

Thing is back then the F2 cars were a lot more compliant with all the jumps and 100+ corners

But it is still a great performance from Ickx

He really shoots it down as a performance sadly

[past drift]

wdym

[paper fossil]

^

[dusty token]

Am i on smth or is this Clark?

[past drift]

this is Clark

[round swift]

yes its clark

[distant garnet]

https://youtu.be/SY0e2CePMGw?si=wKlRcv_D26dUuVsK

[vale sequoia]

On December 6, 1955, the marble re-presentation of the starting grid from where Alberto Ascari set off in his Lancia D50 n°6 and won the Gran Premio Del Valentino on the 27th of March 1955 was placed.
After 66 years the Artes Aps Association has created the new pitch and is returning it to the city and to all fans.
~May 26, 2021

The 1946 Turin Grand Prix was a Grand Prix motor race held at Valentino Park on the 1st of September 1946. It is claimed to be the first ever Formula One race, as the race regulations anticipated the official introduction of the new formula on the 1st of January 1947.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1946_Turin_Grand_Prix
https://maps.app.goo.gl/1SYdU1pfUVnJ6xZp9

[desert plover]

Wow, I just found out that Canadian filmmaker Denis Villeneuve is second cousins with Jacques Villeneuve. Villeneuve's films have grossed over $1.8 billion worldwide.

[elfin siren]

Do you People loves the Old Renault?

I Love it because it's Memories

[past drift]

how old are we talking

[paper fossil]

French Renault?

Not Enstone Renault?

[past drift]

this is brilliant

but I like this

[oblique dock]

Oooo

The RE30B

(The RE40’s my favorite Renault F1 car)

[past drift]

i like the 30B better because the proportions are just silly

[paper fossil]

Must go completely off topic to this

[past drift]

front wing? no need

[paper fossil]

"until the arrival of Stewart in Formula 1 in 1965 we had been accepting a lower standard of top-line driver than we had had in the past." - From Motorsport Magazine, January 1967, on Hill's departure from BRM

But this is ideal

[oblique dock]

It looks so good even without the front wing

[paper fossil]

Probably right icl given Stewart would arguably be the best driver on the grid from 66 to the end of his career

Except 72

[past drift]

yeah possibly

[paper fossil]

Though

They had Hill and Gurney (briefly) before

[past drift]

the weight distribution

luckily none of them broke their legs that season

[past drift]

yeah the 64 lineup was good

but not good enough to get any title, strangely enough

the car must have been quite rubbish

[paper fossil]

I mean

[past drift]

they just did everything right in 62

[paper fossil]

It should have won 64

It was quick enough

But Hill had to drop scores and retried from a few gp

Namely Mexico

[past drift]

yeah they were a very close 2nd on both fronts

[paper fossil]

When Bandini just took him out

[past drift]

oh that wasn't Gurney who was Hill's teammate that year, but Ginther

when did they pair, 61?

[paper fossil]

Yeah well Grahams title winning chassis qualifies ahead of him at the Nurburgring the following year with Bandini for the Centro Sud team

[paper fossil]

After he left Ferrari I think so yeah

60

[past drift]

i had no idea Bandini drove a BRM at some point

[paper fossil]

Privateer one yeah

After he was sacked by Ferrari

Before being quickly hired again in 63

He qualified ahead but got into a shunt early in that specific gp anyway

But the specific multiple race winner chassis had a lot of names go into it

BRM actually asked for it back for Monaco in 63 during qualifying practice

[elfin siren]

Which exactly Old F1 Car do you all Prefer?

[paper fossil]

Tyrrell 003

[wary oak]

Probably the Ferrari 312T

[elfin siren]

Ah Yeah, The Old Classic One too

[oblique dock]

The Mclaren MP4/6

[desert terrace]

Ferrari 312B3, or Lambo 291

Or Honda RA302

[elfin siren]

Any Favorite Car from Brawn and Toyota?

[oblique dock]

Well, there isn't any other car apart from the BGP 001

And as for Toyota, I don't think I have a favorite car from them.

[elfin siren]

That's a Shame. Wish i could know what Toyota have when once their in F1 Before

[oblique dock]

Toyota's best ever finish in F1 was 4th. They achieved zero wins and a couple of poles and podiums.

But apart from all the money and resources they have, they fell short of achieving any wins

Outside of F1, they were more successful in other single seater championships

CART
Indycar Series (Formerly the Indy Racing League)
And of course, Formula Nippon/Super Formula

Just to give some examples

[distant garnet]

If i remember well,Toyota's budget per season was above or around Ferrari's

[elfin siren]

1973 F1 Lotus

[oblique dock]

this was from 1973

not 1970

[elfin siren]

I just edit it

[oblique dock]

👍

[elfin siren]

Can't remember because i haven't Born yet. 90s was when i was Born 😅

[oblique dock]

I was born in the 2000s

[elfin siren]

This was One i Remembered back in the 90s

When Canon once had been Part of F1 Sponsors Car as well

[oblique dock]

The FW14B from 1992

[elfin siren]

Maybe One my Family use to see 😅

[oblique dock]

ok....?

I wasn't annoyed or anything

[indigo phoenix]

Thats a lot of trust there

[paper fossil]

fine

i would trust jackie with all non reading related activities

[desert plover]

Fun Fact!

Michael Schumacher is ranked 5th for most laps led in a season (By percentage) with 61.76 percent

And no, it wasn’t his 2002 or 2004 season, but actually his 1994 season!

[indigo phoenix]

Actually wait this should go here too

[river cave]

damn i need to get off insta

i saw the thumbnail and thought this would be something about a certain event in new york

[fleet wigeon]

Nope it's dallas grand prix from 1984

[river cave]

yes the track that ripped itself apart

and made Senna crash out

not Senna himself

the track moved

[fleet wigeon]

And the only grand prix hosted in 1984

Never made any apperance after that

[paper fossil]

one of the barriers moved

just so slightly

and the line he had been using all weekend ended up taking him out of the race basically

[distant garnet]

To add,Senna finished the 1984 season in the top 10 of the standings

Literally same amount of points as Mansell in the Lotus

[paper fossil]

the car was very good

i mean if ayrton had put a bit more into preparing himself for formula one physically he could have got more results

[river cave]

tells you just how on the limit Ayrton really was

his team basically rolled their eyes and said "sure Ayrton, the barrier moved"
And then after his insistance they checked and it really had

[idle gale]

The lost Austrian rookie

[past drift]

😔

[past drift]

was checking the quali results for Germany 67 and it's quite absurd.

Ickx who was qualified 18th because he was driving an F2 car would have been 3rd on the grid, if it wasn't F1 first and F2 second

he qualified one full minute ahead of the man in front, the last F1 qualified, someone called Guy Ligier
and he qualified almost 30s ahead of the 2nd placed F2 driver, Jackie Oliver who would also have a lengthy career in the sports, as a driver then through his team Arrows

Oh also, Guy Ligier scored his only point in F1 by finishing... 8th. Because 2 drivers ahead of him were F2 drivers, so they didn't score points.

wonder where Ickx was when he DNFed lap 12. I bet he was in good position overall, like 4th or 5th

he even qualified ahead of Stewart

[buoyant swallow]

jean pierre jabouille deserved a wdc

[paper fossil]

God I would have to think about that deeply

Okay I would say he wasn’t a potential champion in wait at all icl

Not if he ever had to leave Renault

This ignoring his injury in 80 btw

[wary oak]

Prost and Senna in the new Senna TV series. The Trailer just dropped about 8 hours ago. It looks promising.

[distant garnet]

Prost's actor is actually French too

Also,it's only 6 episodes

[paper fossil]

still wary about it

[buoyant swallow]

that guy looks like Prost than Prost himself

[wary oak]

I don't think Prost would be THAT tall

[fair ivy]

RIP

[buoyant swallow]

Ratzenberger

Hands down, one of the best car liveries I've ever seen

it just looks simple and unique

plus Haas's 2021 car

[nova kernel]

Yea it’s nice

Now that I think of it the 2010 F1 cars are probably my favourite

[oblique dock]

I’m a bit skeptical about it

[wary oak]

Guess we will have to wait and see

[oblique dock]

Also, it’s kinda funny how Senna’s practically the same height as Prost

When in reality Prost was a few inches shorter

[wary oak]

May 1st always gets me thinking about Senna. Such a sad day today is.

[oblique dock]

yeah.....

[past drift]

Senna was 11cm taller

[wise viper]

2015 f1 cars were the goat i swear bro

[desert plover]

About 4.5 inches, looks like in the TV series they are about an inch apart

[past drift]

well, it’s okay, can’t tick every single box

[buoyant swallow]

the man who looks like Prost than Prost himself

is tall now

[woven zinc]

tmw the Opel Vectra they used as the safety car for Imola 94 was way too slow and also had abysmal acceleration and braking to the point the brakes were just done after 2 laps and the car literally died when they pulled into the pits

...man

[slender veldt]

Wrong channel mate

[wary oak]

Lmao that's true

[buoyant swallow]

mika hakkinen, the real finnish

[limpid kernel]

i mean, not the ONLY one

Valterri and Kimi

[distant garnet]

Keke won with consistency and reliability

[paper fossil]

i think he won it well

given the car was about 1% off the Ferrari across the year

[paper fossil]

could have very well been the 1974 tyrrell line up

[fair ivy]

I don’t know if videos are allowed in this channel, but I’d like to leave this message from the man himself

[past drift]

whos that on the right?

[desert terrace]

Senna sempre

[wary oak]

Gerry Birrell

[buoyant swallow]

mika hakkinen

best finnish

[slender veldt]

"Death has reached Senna, but never overtook him"

[paper fossil]

As Croakq said yes it is Birrell

Who was the intended Stewart replacement

Until he died at Rouen in a Formula Two race

Often it is said they moved on to Roger Williamson but that is incredibly doubtful and most likely just Tom Wheatcroft blowing his own trumpet

He certainly visited Ockham but that is as far as it went

[past drift]

oh

ah he died in Rouen, like Jo Schlesser

[paper fossil]

I still don’t know if he was particularly good

Self confident it seems but he was also 28 which tbf back then was young anyway

Though I think Jody was 24

I can say having read the lost generation I don’t think Williamson was anywhere near as good as Pryce or Brise

[past drift]

Jody was 24 when he scored his first point in Spqin 74

Bruce McLaren was 21 when he did the same. he must have been hella young for the standards of the era

[paper fossil]

Jody was born in the same decade as drivers who raced in the early 90s

Same as Lavaggi I think for sure

Also younger than Arnoux and G Villeneuve

Which is fucked

[past drift]

wild

[paper fossil]

To me at least

[paper fossil]

Bruce intended to race as long as Brabham did

[past drift]

oh Gilles was only 11 days older

[paper fossil]

So he would have been in gp till the early 80s

[past drift]

which wouldn't be that old in the end, Fernando is older than that

[paper fossil]

I still wonder where the team would have gone

[past drift]

would have been epic to see him win a title with the M23

[paper fossil]

I doubt that

[past drift]

if he was still quick enough, maybe he could have

[paper fossil]

Well

He was good

But I wouldn’t say top level talent

Issue is once Brabham goes at Cooper all the data sets are unusable

[past drift]

why is that

[paper fossil]

Teammate are eh

Data is a bit muddy

Because the team is all over the place

[past drift]

ig the Coopers of 59 and 60 were just excellent cars as well

[paper fossil]

I mean if we look at Maggs for example it is easy to say Bruce destroyed him

But he doesn’t get to practice in the car nearly all the time

And it is probably Bruce at his best with a uncompetitive car

I mean this is all qualifying data anyway

Like once he faces Hulme and Gurney I think it is clear where Bruce rests

[past drift]

yeah true

then he also was quite competent against Hulme

[past drift]

ah, the worst Ferrari
disputed with the 1980 model

[paper fossil]

or the F92A

[past drift]

why is every Ferrari car disputing the title of worst Ferrari car

[paper fossil]

i think it was the model that at one point made Merzario the de facto no1 and only gp driver for the team

[past drift]

yeah Ickx bailed out because the car was so bad

[paper fossil]

he put his toe back in at one gp iirc

maybe not though

pretty sure he raced at the italian gp with it though

[past drift]

he did in Italy

qualified 14th skull

[paper fossil]

then two apperances in a m23 and if i do say a fwrc car

ik it was called an iso marlboro

but it was franks car

[past drift]

and he actually fared better in the shit ass Iso Marlboro in Frank Williams than at this iralian gp

[paper fossil]

i was thinking ganley got a great result in that

but no it was when reutemann won at the nurburgring and laffite was 2nd in it

at the 75 event

[past drift]

yeah

probably kept Frank's dream alive

[paper fossil]

can always get those results i think

there

lauda did so and that built all his reputation that made clay recruit him for ferrari

[past drift]

yeah

[paper fossil]

ah that was qualifying actually

fair

he got pretty roughed up at brm though

by ronnie and jean pierre beltoise

[past drift]

Beltoise quite underrated, he never got better than the BRM after he was experienced

[paper fossil]

at that point he had like nearly no leverage for anything

so clay was very much key

[past drift]

the Matra years he was too inexperienced ig

[paper fossil]

don't believe enzo was actually interested

ah well

his rise through 4 wheels was so quick

he was originally a biker

injured himself quite a bit and had to drive differently as a result

apparently he applied throttle in a similar way to senna

[paper fossil]

likely cost him a ligier seat for 76 actually

as guy had been great friends with jo schlesser who had lost his place in matra to him

they did a test which was totally unfair and that gave laffite the drive

they wanted jarier really but he was contracted at shadow

[past drift]

i think Guy didn't want Jarier because he was too close to Matra

A new French team makes its debut, that of Guy Ligier, supported by Seita (state owned tobacco company) and by Matra which supplies its V12 engine. Designed by Gérard Ducarouge and Michel Beaujon, the JS5 (JS in homage to Jo Schlesser, friend of Ligier), impresses with its immense air intake in the shape of a Phrygian cap. Jacques Laffite was chosen to drive it to the detriment of Jean-Pierre Beltoise, considered too old for Formula 1. Three years after the withdrawal of the Matra team, France is therefore officially represented in Formula 1 again.

[paper fossil]

it wasn't because he was too old

even pescarolo ruled out because he couldn't fit in the car wrote to l'equipe about the unfair test

[past drift]

interesting, didn't know that

well, I know Guy Ligier was a grudgeful mofo

[ivory dagger]

how can i take the role?

[buoyant swallow]

hello classic chat

today's subject: mika hakkinen

[wary oak]

lol

[idle gale]

The 1988 Osella. Ironically named the FA1L

[indigo phoenix]

Unimaginably cooler than you

[desert plover]

Wow. So much cooler than me

[past drift]

who's that on the left?

[indigo phoenix]

John Whitmore

[past drift]

oh, never heard of him

[indigo phoenix]

Not an F1 guy, he did some touring cars

Came second at Le Mans with Jim Clark once

[paper fossil]

once forgot to deploy his landing gear at geneva

and closed the airport for the rest of the day as a result

[oblique dock]

Two Marches, a Lotus, and a Ferrari

(And presumably a BRM that’s out of shot)

[paper fossil]

either Pedro's Yardley BRM or Stommelen in the Brabham

mainly because i don't know how the grid slots lined up you used to have a mix of 3-2-3

and other things

depended

probably the gp winner of this particular race (Spa 1970) Pedro though

[oblique dock]

RIP Pedro

What a driver he was

[wary oak]

https://media.formula1.com/image/upload/f_auto,c_limit,w_1440,q_auto/f_auto/q_auto/fom-website/2024/Miami/Formula 1 header template

Verstappen first driver to grab opening six poles since Prost three decades ago

If Verstappen gets pole the next race, he will tie Senna for most consecutive pole positions

[buoyant swallow]

hello chat

Today

I tell you about hakkinen

and checo

[paper fossil]

*From the start of a season

Though Max also got Abu Dhabi at the end of last year tbf

So he will yes equal both records simultaneously

[paper fossil]

If one death that seemed so incredibly tragic and easily prevented it would be Jo Sifferts BRM accident in ROC 71

He only had broken his leg

But because all three fire extinguishers failed to work properly at the scene it took them 5 minutes to recover Seppi instead of the 20 seconds the RAC investigation uncovered

BRM also never divulged the fact the suspension had been damaged on the opening lap when Jo was jostling with Peterson

[wary oak]

Obviously the season just started. He would need to get pole to match Senna’s record.

[paper fossil]

^

[paper fossil]

^

[desert plover]

Yes, it'll be interesting if Max ties them

[wary oak]

Yup, another record Max can break this year

Michael Coulthard vs Ayrton Prost

1996 Monaco Qualifying from Michael Schumacher was kinda crazy. Two tenths slower when at middle sector. Five tenths faster when reach finish line. He absolutely destroyed it. Kind of crazy especially in Monaco!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=2XMczEUJ0_s

[worldly sigil]

Senna looks a bit weird

Hmmmmmm

[oblique dock]

You forgot Prost wearing Erik Comas’ helmet at Paul Ricard in 1992

[wary oak]

Damn true. I probably forgot more but those two I remembered

[fleet wigeon]

Or more like David Schumacher vs Alain Senna

[wary oak]

David Schumacher is an actual person though lol

He's the nephew of Michael Schumacher

[oblique dock]

Vs Alain Comas

[fleet wigeon]

Oh

[north sand]

Congrats @fleet wigeon, you're now on lap 5

[paper fossil]

we love the ligier "secret" test

[wary oak]

I can't find any more drivers swapping helmets. Lol

Maybe there is more, or not. I don't know

[paper fossil]

Ah James best forgotten Wolf stint

that he definitely didn't want to get out of even in 1978

[wary oak]

Yup

[tired mica]

Really love these pics, are they from Imola?

[wary oak]

yeah i think so

[tired mica]

Really love that livery

The suit is meh

[tired mica]

Is that Coulthard?

[paper fossil]

no it is mansell

[wary oak]

No its Nigel

[paper fossil]

i assume french gp

[wary oak]

Yes

[tired mica]

Ah okay

[paper fossil]

because of the lack of sponsoring

pretty sure that was his first gp back also

[tired mica]

In all honesty I didn’t know Mansell raced with 2

Or was it Hill who always used 0?

[paper fossil]

he would have had to

[wary oak]

hill used 0 for two seasons

[paper fossil]

because the wc wasn't on the grid

[paper fossil]

think ronnie was the only non wdc to take the no1

[paper fossil]

in 74

under the old numbering system

[tired mica]

Wait why is 0 banned?

[tired mica]

I love that 0 so much

[oblique dock]

Meanwhile, Scheckter used 0 before Hill, many years prior

[tired mica]

I didn’t know that

[wary oak]

Yeah in 1973 or something

[tired mica]

Is it bc it’s lower than 1?

[oblique dock]

Yup

[tired mica]

Renault

[paper fossil]

yeah in 73

when they were trialling the new system for 74

[wary oak]

Ya its the renault logo for the zero haha

[tired mica]

Lol

[wary oak]

and this one has no number

preseason testing

[paper fossil]

i always wondered why past 74 no one took on the no1

because by right it belonged to williams

without the wdc on the grid

in 93

and 94

i mean it was the only two occasions after 1974 when such a scenario was allowed to happen

okay they just specifically changed the rule on that matter

annoyingly

took me down some rabbit holes but it is good that the at the time governing body "CSI" ignored calls to retire the number 6 for Ronnie after Monza 78

i would have to agree with their decision given he had literally run that for only the said year

[past drift]

🤔 no1 ?

[river cave]

Imola?

[wary oak]

Yes

[river cave]

There is some interesting amatuer footage from Imola in particular

surprising given that handheld cameras were not that common back then

some of the footage has never been seen publicly for obvious reasons

There is footage on youtube taken from a high point either on Villenueve or at Tosa

but i suggest looking for it at your own discretion

[past drift]

oh ye i think i saw it

[river cave]

actually scary given unlike the broadcast camera, the amateur wideshot shows him enter Tamburello and then go straight off

and just highlights how fast he was really going

[slender veldt]

Not as scary as the monza crash that killed the spectators

[river cave]

yeah Wolfgang's accident

yeesh

[slender veldt]

Including a photographer who was talking pictures of the car getting to him

[river cave]

probably one of the most infamous shots taken during that dark era of racing

that and probably the Zandvoort crash

[slender veldt]

Which one

[river cave]

Roger Williamson

that's who i was thinking of

[slender veldt]

The guy who caught on fire?

While his friend tried to save him

[river cave]

the one who was trapped in his car upside down

while on fire

yep

[slender veldt]

Yeah that one was also brutal

[river cave]

David Purley

whenever i watch One Life on the Limit (brilliant doc btw) it always breaks my heart

[slender veldt]

What is it about?

[river cave]

a documentary going over the whole history of F1

up until 2012

you can find it on youtube

very good doc

[slender veldt]

I think I have seen it but I don't remember it

[river cave]

it has Michael Fassbender doing the commentary

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlAbQkcpTek

[slender veldt]

I will watch it again

Thank you mate

[oblique dock]

Ah.... I loved this documentary.

The scene with Cevert's accident and the French national anthem being played in his honor was one scene that stuck with me

[paper fossil]

The weird thing is according to those who asked Mike Earle (his team manager at LEC) on his motorsport mag podcast David was just about the only active British driver at the time who took the same attitude to safety as Stirling Moss had done his whole life

[desert terrace]

Just realised Sauber brought Mercedes, Red Bull, and Petronas into F1

[lean hamlet]

Who’s the Goated racer?

[desert plover]

.truth

[north sand]

Prost > Senna

[river cave]

Steven Tee's infamous photo from the 1994 German Grand Prix (the mechanic was mostly fine other than minor burns)

[grizzled frost]

what is that?

[past drift]

looks like a Tyrrell?

[paper fossil]

Original 005

Wooden mock up for the wind tunnel

Angled fins were inspiration from a Matra prototype

[paper fossil]

dear god

[paper fossil]

38 years since Elio de Angelis died at Paul Ricard

[paper fossil]

Must ask on the matter of the 312B3 do we think Amon could have fixed that car up as Lauda did when he tested in October November 73

Lauda was only there because of Clay and them both racing at BRM

Amon rejected a 74 offer in mid 1973 iirc

Mauro has always said the best test driver was Chris

1968 Ferrari has often been said to be the quickest package and Chris was just horrendously unlucky

[indigo phoenix]

Idt that I would be inclined to agree about quickest over the course of the full season.

[paper fossil]

Best car then

It is an interesting question because Niki was incredibly lucky to be at Ferrari

He hadn’t earned it at all on peformances

Okay some Clay quotes suggest it wasn’t fully because of BRM

But yes he definitely gave Enzo a favourable word when asked about Niki

[paper fossil]

Anyway the reasons for rejecting Ferrari are simply because of his Tecno situation

A new car was going to arrive for 74 before it got completely blocked by David Yorke as Martini were unhappy

Brabham was rejected because by the time that came along Chris was setting up his own thing and didn’t want to lay everyone off

[thorn raven]

I drew this

[desert plover]

Nice! Looks very good

Do you plan on colouring it?

[candid nexus]

its shading why would someone colour it

[desert plover]

Why not colour it? Especially the helmet

[idle gale]

When McLaren had their drivers' names on the side of their cars to get around the tobacco sponsorship bans in some countries

[wary oak]

Max just got pole. That means he equals Ayrton Sennas record for most consecutive pole positions and Alain Prost’s record for pole positions consecutively in early season

[nova kernel]

Oh west was tobacco stuff?

I only remembered Marlboro and Rothmans on the Ferraris and Williams

[oblique dock]

Yup. West is a tobacco brand

[nova kernel]

Dang

[oblique dock]

It's had its name on the Zakspeeds prior to Mclaren

[nova kernel]

When were tobacco spons banned

[oblique dock]

The last time tobacco sponsors were used was in 2008

[nova kernel]

I’d guess late 2000s because I saw some pics of Ferraris with bar codes or whatever instead

[nova kernel]

Dang

[oblique dock]

Also, West sponsors were sometimes changed to East

[nova kernel]

I think the bar code was Marlboro still

[oblique dock]

The same applied to the other West Mclaren,

The West Mclaren F1 GTR

[nova kernel]

[nova kernel]

What racing is this

Is it GT1

[oblique dock]

Yup

[nova kernel]

Looks sick

Does GT1 racing even still exist

[oblique dock]

Meanwhile, it also had the sponsor West FM

[nova kernel]

Or is it just mixed with FIA endurance

[oblique dock]

Nope. GT1's been long gone.

[nova kernel]

Damn

[oblique dock]

After the BPR Global GT Series ran from 1994-1996, it became the FIA GT Championship from 1997-2009 and then it became the FIA GT1 World Championship from 2010-2012

Oh yeah, GT1's been used in series apart from the ones I mentioned.

The JGTC
British GT Championship
And the American Le Mans Series are some examples

[nova kernel]

Interesting

[oblique dock]

Going back to West sponsors, it was also used in MotoGP

And also DTM

[nova kernel]

Tobacco seems like the backbone of old motor sports

I just read some people thought f1 wouldn’t survive without it

[oblique dock]

Marlboro
Cabin
Mild Seven
West
Lucky Strike
Kool
Skoal
Players
Winston
Winfield
Rothmans
and so on

[nova kernel]

Even Fernando Alonso’s first kart has a Marlboro livery 💀

I wonder if that was added much later on

[oblique dock]

I mean, there's also oil companies, too.

Castrol, Pennzoil, Valvoline, Texaco Havoline, Mobil 1, Quaker State, etc.

[nova kernel]

Aramco nowadays

[oblique dock]

Eh...

[nova kernel]

?

[north sand]

Congrats @nova kernel, you're now on lap 5

[oblique dock]

I wouldn't consider Aramco to be considered the backbone

[nova kernel]

Yea I agree

I just meant like Aramco is used a lot today

[oblique dock]

oh, ok

[paper fossil]

Great thing with West is they changed their light branding in accordance with McLarens Silver arrows livery influence

Hence previous West sponsorship had been in the usual packaging colours

[paper fossil]

Hmmm

Prost/Rosberg

Brabham/Rindt

Clark/Hill

[meager pewter]

woah I haven't seen this before

[oblique dock]

This was used on Loris Capirossi's Honda

[willow gorge]

why does that look like the guy from star wars

[oblique dock]

Han Solo???

[willow gorge]

no

i forgot his name

but he flew an x-wing

anyway not important

[oblique dock]

Oh yeah, there's also the name sponsors just like how F1 did it

[willow gorge]

west livery even looks good on bikes

[oblique dock]

It sure does

[meager pewter]

hot

[paper fossil]

the tobacco ensembles all look better on bikes

still my favourite capirossi match up though

[oblique dock]

Nice

[round swift]

DON'T THEY HAVE AN OF SPONSOR NOW? 😭

[paper fossil]

Rindt signing a 3 year deal with Cooper at the start of 65 and Stewart thinking over BRM, Copper and Lotus despite representing Cooper for his short open wheel carer is a key difference between the men

Though 66 was good I suppose

Helps not having 3rd rate Coventry Climaxes

I think the Maserati tbh was probably the 2nd best prepared engine for 3l format by that point

Repco far away ahead

Also Surtees absolutely being a goat at development

[paper fossil]

Can’t believe it is 20 years since Trulli’s single Grand Épreuve victory at Monte Carlo

One of only 4 drivers to take their only world championship grand prix victories at the track

[oblique dock]

and also 20 years since a precious diamond was lost

[past drift]

Him, Trintignant, Beltoise and… idk von Trips maybe ?

Panis

3 french drivers won their only race at Monaco ? wild

[river cave]

i mean was that diamond even on the car in the first place?

when it was in the paddock sure but

do you think they actually had the balls to place it on the car during the race knowing the wing could be damaged?

[oblique dock]

🤷‍♂️

[carmine kindle]

In monaco aswell

[wary oak]

Honestly I don’t know. If you look up pictures, the diamonds in different places

https://www.thedrive.com/content-b/message-editor%2F1647225826509-gettyimages-50906098.jpg

https://www.thedrive.com/content-b/message-editor%2F1647226069171-gettyimages-508599851.jpg

[wary oak]

Actually, I don’t think this picture is the diamond is ACTUALLY in the F1 car

[paper fossil]

Interesting to hear Matt Bishop say Scheckter was only on Hunts level between 76 to 77

And Richard Williams agree

[past drift]

meaning he was below otherwise ?

[paper fossil]

As a driver

In ability

No one came close at the time

Inclined to agree

Much like how Ronnie was by far the quickest guy in his first Lotus season and 74

[past drift]

the quickest guys dont always win

moreso now, but back then clearly not

yeah idk much about Scheckter.. and especially not Hunt

i think it’s quite wild how fast he got slower after his title. maybe it was just his cars idk

[paper fossil]

Not really

77 was his best season

He was good again with an awful car in 78

It was only when he couldn’t be bothered in 79 his pace fell off

I mean it definitely makes sense

Niki wasn’t particularly naturally talented he got pushed about by Peterson and Beltoise at March/BRM respectively

He was smart for sure

And moved himself into incredibly favourable positions with Clay at BRM and one Monaco GP performance getting the attention of Enzo

Otherwise they would have gone for Jarier

Which would have been something for sure

Given he screwed over March a bit to go to UOP Shadow

[past drift]

yeah clearly

[desert plover]

yeah true

[idle gale]

There was the 1982 Monaco GP as well

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1y6uuSX3gI&ab_channel=JoshRevell

[past drift]

i forgot, when were Mercedes prevented from using beryllium alloys in their engines around 2000?

i would like to say 2001 because that's when McLaren slipped down the order quite hard

[paper fossil]

It was for 01

[past drift]

sadge

Ferrari just pissed McLaren had a competitive advantage

[paper fossil]

It is a pretty toxic element to work with in any case

[past drift]

but Ron Dennis, who would never lie, said it wasn;'t toxic as an alloy!

[meager pewter]

The issue with using it in Aluminium as opposed to Copper which is wide spread, other than competitive advantage that only they could pull off, is that Beryllium forms a Metal Matrix, not really an Alloy, so the Beryllium isn't really bonded and that was used as justification of it being unsafe to produce

[past drift]

ah ok 😄

[distant garnet]

But then, by 2000, almost all engines matched the Mercedes power

Meanwhile,Minardi using a 1998 Ford engine (the same Stewart used)

[paper fossil]

I mean you can say all that but packaging was arguably a lot more important

That is why Prost was so annoyed with Peugeot

[frozen prism]

he lost the motivation gradually

the ending of their biopic "Rush" I think describes it perfectly

with Lauda going back to off-season testing shortly after losing the title

and James going back to party for a little while

so as his cars gradually got worse his motivation just went away

in Scheckter's case though it was shocking how much of a decline he had

[paper fossil]

happens when you don't have a ground effect car

and a flat 12

[past drift]

wonder how the aero of the T5 would work if they already had the much narrower V6T they had the following year

it’s fascinating they managed to beat Ligier and Lotus in 79

[idle gale]

When F1 raced on the brick "Wall of Death"

[round swift]

Didn't Top Gear do an episode here? Or somewhere similar

[oblique dock]

I don’t remember them doing an episode at Avus

[past drift]

there's an episode of some old banking in Italy iirc; but it wasn't used for a F1 race

[oblique dock]

And meanwhile in the Grand Tour https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=6qoJ-rGKIlM

Sitges-Terramar, Spain

[paper fossil]

It was just a wings car

I mean the good thing in 79 is they had a decent power advantage and reliability

Ligier started out of the blocks as the best car from over the winter

Lotus not surprising they got beat in the 2nd full year of the 78 car

With the performance table swinging about only Ferrari was consistently up there the whole year

And it helped that the dropped scores effectively eliminated Jones despite having just won a gp

[frozen prism]

not really when you see how reliable the Ferrari was

whenever the Laffite finished a race he was on the podium 90% of the time

the Lotuses on the other hand could never finish a race for whatever reason

[past drift]

true they were bulletproof so to speak, but then they were also bloody fast and managed to get poles!

[paper fossil]

more because their understanding of running a ground effects car and getting the best out of such an innovation was limited

esp in relation to the stiffness of the car

i think the issue they had was focusing on a new development of what would be the type 80

instead of optimising the 79 to the new taller goodyears

and developing it further

the skirts they put on the 80 were absolutely useless at high speed and would easily break

[past drift]

Chapman was rarely good at optimising a good design, seems like he was always about a new revolutionary stuff

he could do it, see the 49 or 72

[desert terrace]

Yeah

The 79 should have been a winner for longer

Also CC wouldn't listen to drivers or engineers

Everyone said the 80 wouldn't work

Still raced anyways

88 had potential, but it got banned