New player struggling to automate stuff

[inner wind]

Eh, a chance to optimize that build

Protip: don't put copper wire on belts

There's a nice 3:2 assembler ratio for those things

[wet cypress]

how do i fit in the space though

[modest breach]

you dont
rebuild, dont cram stuff in tight

[wet cypress]

idk how though

i've always builded like this

[modest breach]

"i wanna build green circuits"
build an area, that is solely for building the circuits, off to the side where other things arent crammed tight

beyond that, just figure it out really. we cant tell you exactly how to build

[wet cypress]

i already done that

when you make a copy and its blue ghosted. is there a way to like hold left click and place without it placing randomly? and only into the ghosted slots?

building is sooo slow

[modest breach]

only bots build ghosts automatically

[wet cypress]

theres not a hotkey to prevent placing in random spots?

[forest breach]

if you drag power poles they'll do smart ish things, so you can start with those

but besides that, you'd need a mod

ie blueprint shotgun is kind of funny

[wet cypress]

guys can you please help how can i do this?

im only used to single assemblers

[forest breach]

quite a lot of cables
but what's the issue?

[wet cypress]

i don't know how to organize my belts for this basically

[forest breach]

make them go vertically along the crafters

[wet cypress]

can you draw for me 🙂

[forest breach]

you already have one

the red belt on the left

[wet cypress]

thats for my red cpu

[wet cypress]

how can i get these two belts for this red

[forest breach]

well, instead of going horizontally away from where you need it, why not put it vertically along where you need it?

[wet cypress]

how so

[little gust]

@wet cypress Also, not that we don't enjoy helping, but practically every solution to every problem is one you have solved for a previous resource in an iteratively more complex way.

Try looking at how you made or a furnace-stack for this.

[wet cypress]

i haven't used multiple assemblers before though

[forest breach]

you can still just move the belt over

and start doing it

[wet cypress]

i don't understand where you mean too i need both belts moving it to the left is 3 belts in lenght can't reach

[forest breach]

why not?

[wet cypress]

because red only goes 2 accross

[forest breach]

if you move the copper cable assemblers you can get more space there too

[wet cypress]

move the copper assemblers to the right?

[forest breach]

inserters can reach 3
and can even do a line that's 4 away

[wet cypress]

wait inserters can reach 3 rails??

[visual veldt]

In theory

[forest breach]

machine, gap, inserter, gap, belt

[wet cypress]

another question sorry but how do i fix this storage problem?

[forest breach]

what is the problem?
not enough storage?
mixing stuff?

[visual veldt]

Awesome illustration!!

[wet cypress]

stuff keeps getting overflown

[forest breach]

don't overproduce then

[little gust]

Most bases tend to follow this kind of design too.

Patches led to a furnace stack --> furnace stack stuff leads to main bus -> main bus stuff is offsplit to each new thing being made --> in turn those things come down and join the main bus.

[visual veldt]

If it's a train unloading different items then you'd need to consume all equally or place a time waiting condition

[wet cypress]

all of this space just for blue science

[forest breach]

a bit fluffy, but sure

[visual veldt]

Blue science is the hill to climb forsure

[wet cypress]

it took me 10 hours

[inner wind]

The next packs are gonna be even bigger

[wet cypress]

im on tutorial mode rn learning how to make stuff better

so i don't use such a large area to build on

[inner wind]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with using space

It's one of the cheapest resources you have

[wet cypress]

I know its just messy and causing problems

like storage problems, production problems all sorts of problems

[inner wind]

You don't fix those by making things smaller

If anything, that makes them worse

And harder to fix

[wet cypress]

how can i make my stuff better though?

its super slow

[inner wind]

Observe it. Find the bottlenecks, fix them, repeat

Or just make it bigger

[wet cypress]

I don't know how too thats why im on tutorial mode rn

[inner wind]

That won't teach you how to find bottlenecks

That just teaches you the basics of how to play the game, which you already seem to know decently well

[wet cypress]

my plastic has haulted. my batteries are producing at one every 10 minutes. my brick haulted

[inner wind]

Start at the batteries. Why are they being produced so slowly?

Not enough machines? Not enough inputs? Something else?

And too help answer those: Are the machines working all the time, or are they sitting idle?

[wet cypress]

like this entire thing sucks

bad

only reason the belts are full is my train is haulted

[inner wind]

I can't answer these questions for you as it requires observing the factory as it works

[inner wind]

You'll have to do that part yourself

[wet cypress]

like this is just stupid bro

all for blue science

[inner wind]

Looks pretty normal to me

[wet cypress]

also blocked

i have slowed down the amount it gets massively yet still blocked no idea what to use it for

[inner wind]

What exactly is blocked?

[wet cypress]

storage for sulfer

[inner wind]

What's wrong with that?

[wet cypress]

train wont move

[inner wind]

What issues does that cause?

[wet cypress]

blue science stops

[inner wind]

How?

[wet cypress]

somewhere down here

[inner wind]

Having excess sulfur does not cause blue science to stop producing. Blue science needs sulfur

[wet cypress]

i don't get how to fix it other than scraping entire thing

[inner wind]

Why does sulfur being backed up cause science to stop being produced?

[wet cypress]

because my train cannot offload anymore sulfur

[inner wind]

It has plenty of sulfur though

[inner wind]

It does not need to offload more sulfur. There is plenty of sulfur.

So why is this a problem?

[wet cypress]

because train won't move

[inner wind]

Why does the train need to move?

[wet cypress]

and when it goes back to station if i do it manually it reloads more sulfur lmao

[wet cypress]

because it waits to offload but changing it doesn't fix my issue

i need both materials

[inner wind]

Both materials?

[wet cypress]

but if i fix it then it just eventually gets overloaded with sulfer again lol

sulfur and plastic

[inner wind]

So the issue is that you are not getting plastic?

[wet cypress]

nah

[inner wind]

And the cause of that issue is that the train is blocked by sulfur?

[wet cypress]

idk how to zoom in that spot but basically i want both sulfur and plastic. if it gets dropped off here full of sulfur. i cannot balance it

[inner wind]

So your blue science isn't being produced because it is not getting plastic, and the reason for that is that the train is getting overloaded with sulfur?

[wet cypress]

yes

[inner wind]

So now we've found a root cause. Train is not getting loaded in a good way

[wet cypress]

i set it too just one and still eventually it overloads again

[inner wind]

Then you'll need to find a way to set a hard limit on how much sulfur can be on that train

And perhaps a way to make it leave the other station if either plastic or sulfur runs out on the train

[wet cypress]

how so? i have my train like this

[inner wind]

How about a wait condition that makes it leave the unloading station when either plastic or sulfur on the train run out?

[wet cypress]

how do i set that

[inner wind]

I suggest you mess around with it a bit and give it a try yourself. See what options you have available for wait conditions and how you can combine them

[wet cypress]

i already did lol thats why i left it there

[inner wind]

In short, your goal is to make the train leave when there is 0 sulfur OR there is 0 plastic on board

[wet cypress]

theres no option for that

[inner wind]

Is there an option for one of those?

[inner wind]

What does item count do?

[wet cypress]

ohh i see how do i make it do and or?

[inner wind]

First try making it leave when just one of the items runs out

Either sulfur or plastic

[wet cypress]

like this?

[inner wind]

Yes

Now you can add another condition

[wet cypress]

btw how can i zoom in too places like this

[inner wind]

Build a radar near there

[wet cypress]

do i set sulfur to 0 aswell? one last thing how can i load the cart equal half and half? one half sulfur other half plastic?

is it the same way

[inner wind]

You want it to leave if it has 0 sulfur

You can see either an AND or an OR between the two conditions, you can click that to swap between the two

[wet cypress]

how do i make sure it only fills 50/50

this?

[inner wind]

Plenty of options for that, in no particular order:
Circuit controlled inserters, an extra wagon, filtered wagon slots

[wet cypress]

you can filter slots?

[inner wind]

Yes, middle click

Works for your inventory and any vehicle inventories

And your hotbar

[wet cypress]

wow awesome 😮 is that the best way to do this

[inner wind]

Sometimes, sometimes not

Do you think it will work for you?

[wet cypress]

yeah i think it will i'd like to learn that circuit thing too

[inner wind]

For that, you can connect the inserters to the station with circuits. Set the station to read train contents, set the inserters to enable below a certain threshold

Do note that due to hand size you may get slightly more items than you wanted

Unless hand size is 1 and there's one inserter of course

Upside is that it works via the circuit network, so it can be generalized and customised a lot more

[wet cypress]

hmmm is that the red, copper, or green wire

[inner wind]

Red and green wire move signals. Copper wire moves power between power poles

[wet cypress]

i see this sounds too complicated 😄

Do you know how i could make this better in this limited space?

[little gust]

Perhaps it might be useful to join a few multiplayer maps with several tens or hundreds hours of uptime, and quietly observe how they built things.

Make blueprints if you must, but soak up the general layout and designs that went to doing even the most basic things.

• Smelting.
• Routing
• Using splitters and mixing/matching resources.
• Belt layouts to make sciences/engines/complicated 3-4 ingredient recipes.

Walk around and explore the map.

[wet cypress]

thats a good idea

[little gust]

There's no shame in feeling helpless and having no self-inspiration on how to fix things. Sometimes you just need a template (or several) to find and develop your own groove. Its how I did it, tbf

[wet cypress]

you have a point 😄 i'm terrible at design

[little gust]

Remember to be respectful of other maps. Observe more, rather than asking often.

[wet cypress]

I will i'll just obesver lol

[inner wind]

Observing is the most important thing, also for your own saves

[wet cypress]

obersve my own games you mean

[inner wind]

Sitting down and just watching a build run, trying to spot what's going well and where it could use improvement

[wet cypress]

i find it hard to anaylize where its going wrong though

[inner wind]

General bottleneck troubleshooting procedure: check the previous step in the production chain.
1: If it also has an input shortage, go up another step and repeat.
2: If it has a full input but no full output, add more production there.
3: If the output is backed up, check the transport between the two steps.

It generally all boils down to "why is this machine not getting the materials it needs?"

The way to figure that out is to trace the source of those materials

[wet cypress]

what about in these situations where you don't have enough space to fix it

[inner wind]

Namaste. You seek balance. Here is my wisdom. Your mistakes have no cost but time, and the deconstruction planner even reduces that cost. Most games punish you for building, demolishing and rebuilding. Not Factorio. Let your anxiety wash away as you perceive that every belt placed can be moved. Every assembler is but a visitor to where it resides. The only significance is life, which leads to the further wisdom. Look both ways before you cross the tracks.

 - u/talrich

You always have space, and if you don't you make it

[wet cypress]

that's a fire qoute

yeah but moving all of this 😮

lots of time lol

[inner wind]

Think outside the box. Plenty of space out there

[modest breach]

This is where getting bots unlocked will help you immensely

[wet cypress]

problem i have first is making them lmao

[modest breach]

A+ Photoshop skills. Don't change a thing.

[inner wind]

Point is, you can just run your belts out there, build whatever you need in the open space, and run the outputs from that back in

[wet cypress]

ahh yeah good point lol 😄

[modest breach]

As far as bots. Having just 2-3 dozen in base ports will help take the load off.
Then can add more as you need.

[wet cypress]

i see 🙂 gotta get them first

[forest breach]

oh, so that's what you were doing with the train
in the long run you'll find it easier to just make more trains - each one holding a full wagon of a specific item type

[wet cypress]

i joined a new game and they had this entire thing built within an hour lol

meanwhile it took me 3 days to do mine 😭

[safe sinew]

don't worry. spaghetti is not bad. if the factory continues working its good, even when you don't remember how its working. and you can always build a new base somewhere else.

[wet cypress]

that's what i did 😄

[safe sinew]

also don't forget that you must not redo everything - nuclear ratios, smelter arrays, solar ratios, fission setups - all that stays the same if you are not modding. no need for causing headaches when a quick search can spit out all the ratios you need

[wet cypress]

okay thank you 😄

[wet cypress]

guys how do i get deconstruction robots?

[inner wind]

Open tech tree, press ctrl-f. Type "construction robot"

[wet cypress]

oh i have it. can't delete with it though i just deleted everything by hand 😭

all of that gone

[forest breach]

they are able to remove things in their construction range
you just need roboports/personal roboports and mark things for deconstruction

[wet cypress]

thats it?

don't have to hit any keys?

[forest breach]

just setting up the roboports (ie putting in your armour) and marking for deconstruction

[wet cypress]

it just stays there

[forest breach]

what just stays where?

[wet cypress]

the robot

[forest breach]

is it supposed to be going somewhere?

[wet cypress]

storage?

[forest breach]

do you have storage?

[forest breach]

looks like a storage chest in the bottom left, is the robot in that roboport range?

[wet cypress]

ahh wait its because i had a filter on the chest

bruh why this robot stealing from me

[forest breach]

did you trash the steel chest?

[wet cypress]

this thing?

[forest breach]

yes

[wet cypress]

oh so that takes from my inventory and puts it in the storage? can i turn this off or get my stuff back

[forest breach]

sure

[wet cypress]

ahh sweet thats cool 😄

[forest breach]

you can move stuff out of the trash slots
disabling personal logistics will likely disable bots doing stuff with it

you can get your stuff back by grabbing it from the chest
or you can request stuff from the network in the settings above the trash slots

[wet cypress]

ahh cool 🙂 these robots are slow

[safe sinew]

there's a infinite research for robot speed

[wet cypress]

can you not chain them?

[safe sinew]

No

[wet cypress]

bruh

[safe sinew]

Look at the blue arrows at the inputs

[wet cypress]

L I Don't have much space

[safe sinew]

If its oneway - no passtrough

If arrow both ways - passtrough

[wet cypress]

that makes sense thank you

[forest breach]

try rotating them
then you can put a pipe along the bottom instead

[wet cypress]

200IQ play

[forest breach]

one side of the chemplants is normally inputs
the other is normally outputs

also note that you can now flip the machines if you want different inputs in different locations

[wet cypress]

ended up doing this

why isn't all of this enough to fill up properly? it keeps flickering

[forest breach]

fill what? the gas?

[wet cypress]

the petrolium yeah there all on petrolium but one of them and its not enough

[forest breach]

if you're running out, it's just that your creation rate of gas is lower than your consumption rate

[wet cypress]

impossible lmao look at the belt on the right

i had more with less before

[inner wind]

And then you proceed to show screenshots with tons of space around there

[little gust]

examine this a bit better please, possibly a missing underground pipe connection

hover the mouse over pipes to see what is connected

If only the lower two refineries are connected to your plastic, then this is the likely spot.

[little gust]

more than likely actually, these two spots are copies of each other.

The top 6 refineries are going to fill up their output pipes and then shut off, and you'll be stuck wondering why they aren't doing anything.

[wet cypress]

nah i don't have much 😭

[wet cypress]

i see i fixed this thank you 🙂

[inner wind]

Then why'd you leave two thirds of it empty?

[wet cypress]

wheres the space?

below this is my train

[wet cypress]

thats a tiny space

[inner wind]

It's multiple times bigger than the actual build

[wet cypress]

So what are you saying to move the pipes down and build in an arc?

[inner wind]

No

[wet cypress]

should i just rework this?

[inner wind]

I'm just saying you have plenty of excess space to expand there

[wet cypress]

ohh okay

how can i get better at planning i've reworked this twice already

[inner wind]

Make 500 more builds

[wet cypress]

i need an absolute ton of plastic but cannot produce it quick enough

[inner wind]

What's the limiting factor?

[wet cypress]

i actually don't know

i need it for blue science i need it for red cpu. i need it for a ton of stuff

[inner wind]

Find out

[wet cypress]

how

should i move this over here

[inner wind]

Observe

[wet cypress]

not enough plastic belts and oil

[inner wind]

Why?

[wet cypress]

not enough space to build more

[inner wind]

False

[wet cypress]

keep in mind all of these was just enough for the plastic for 2

[wet cypress]

why false

[inner wind]

You say not enough oil. Does that mean not enough crude oil supply, or not enough being refined?

[wet cypress]

not enough being refined

[inner wind]

False because your previous screenshot shows a huge amount of unused land right next to your refineries

[wet cypress]

where its tiny lol

[inner wind]

I see 3 refineries not working. What's causing that?

[wet cypress]

aww low power right now

[wet cypress]

should i build it right to left or left to right?

[inner wind]

Is it truly tiny when you can fit at least 4 more refineries in there?

[wet cypress]

okay but lets say the space wasn't on the left

[inner wind]

Why?

[wet cypress]

because in a lot of areas i don't have the space to expand

[inner wind]

In those cases you'll have to find space elsewhere and move materials around

That's not the case here though

[wet cypress]

okay makes sense

[inner wind]

So, to start fixing the low plastic situation: more refineries, and more power production

[wet cypress]

if i have tons of power does it make it faster or something?

[inner wind]

No

[wet cypress]

how many tanks fit on a single boiler btw can i just use one boiler

[inner wind]

But you just mentioned not having enough power, which does make things slower (and will ultimately cause the entire base to black out, making restarting it a royal pita)

[inner wind]

A boiler produces 60 steam/sec as shown in its tooltip

A steam engine consumes up to 30 steam/sec, also shown in the tooltip

[wet cypress]

okay my production sucks

is this a good way to do it? or should i build them a different way?

[inner wind]

How much petroleum does one refinery produce per second, and how much does one plastic chemplant consume per second?

All that info is in the tooltips

[wet cypress]

im not really good at maths so how do i work it out

[inner wind]

If one refinery produces 9 petroleum per second, how many do you need (approximately) to feed 20/s?

[wet cypress]

idk?

3?

or around 2?

[little gust]

So if instead of 1x chemplants at 20 petroleum/s, you want to feed 10x chemplants, how many refineries?

[wet cypress]

never did maths at school so idk

[little gust]

Aw cmon, thats not even maths, thats just adding an extra 0 at the end.

The point is that if you want something 10x faster, you make it 10x bigger/longer

[wet cypress]

so do i put two refinery to one plant?

[little gust]

Pretty much. And if you want 10 plants, you need 20 refineries total

and so on.

[wet cypress]

so if i replcae the red circles with a single plant. this will be faster?

[inner wind]

3*9 = 27
2*9 = 18

[wet cypress]

where you getting thjose number from lol

[modest breach]

You gave them. In your images

[inner wind]

If one refinery produces 9 petroleum per second, two of them will produce 18 petroleum per second and three of them will produce 27 petroleum per second

[wet cypress]

so 2 to one?

[inner wind]

18/s is pretty close to the 20/s it needs

[wet cypress]

and this will be faster than having 2?

[inner wind]

No

You still only have 18 petroleum per second

Wether you split that across one or two chemplants does not matter

[wet cypress]

so whats the point in putting 2 to one then

im confused

[inner wind]

Let me reverse that question: what would be the point of having two chemplants?

[wet cypress]

faster

[inner wind]

You have only 18 petroleum per second

A single chemplant can process 20 per second

Why would you use two of them?

[wet cypress]

but when it loads two are built at a time not one 😉

gotta account for that production time 😉

[inner wind]

when

That's accounted for in that consumption rate of 20/sec

Feeding it 10 per second just means it will be inactive for half the time

[modest breach]

You have one plant running at 80% load. Or you have 2 running at 40%
Which produces more

[wet cypress]

so its faster to use two?

[modest breach]

You have one plant running at 80% load. Or you have 2 running at 40%
Which produces more

[wet cypress]

same

[modest breach]

Think about it

Exactly

[wet cypress]

so whats the point of this 😭

[inner wind]

So why would you build two to do the work of one?

[wet cypress]

you have a point

[modest breach]

But you save having to have a spare one that consumes power and space

[wet cypress]

but it doesn't really add any space

[inner wind]

You're taking up more space and more power for the exact same output

[wet cypress]

I know this a dumb question but what is this maths type called

[inner wind]

Basic arithmetics

[modest breach]

It's just.... Math

[inner wind]

Division and multiplication

[wet cypress]

i mean the sum total what is it called

okay thank you

this game bouta make me take a maths course ong

[modest breach]

How did you not ever take any math at all......?

[inner wind]

Not if you build the two right next to each other, but what if you don't?

[wet cypress]

left school early

[modest breach]

When. 2nd grade?

[wet cypress]

how do you mean

[wet cypress]

we only did addition and subtraction

[inner wind]

You probably should take that maths course then

It's quite ueful for... functioning

[wet cypress]

yeah i'll find one lol

[wet cypress]

what do you mean by this though

[modest breach]

Hell you can get to the numbers he gave you just by adding too.
He did 9x2 and 9x3
Just do 9+9 and 9+9+9

[inner wind]

Red: refineries
Blue: half the number of chemplants, right next to each other
Green: saved space

[modest breach]

Not being able to see that is just terrifying for your lack of schooling

[wet cypress]

awersome thank you 🙂

[wet cypress]

im pretty smart in other terms of things. Just maths basically

[modest breach]

But then you just accept the ignorance in math. That has to come up occasionally outside of this game

[little gust]

Well, at least this game won't ever lose the challenge factor for you.

[inner wind]

I would like to encourage you to spend more time thinking about things in general though, seeing this entire thread. Just the kind of "what's wrong here, what steps might help me fix this?"
Observation is the first step, as always

[wet cypress]

gives me another reason to learn maths lol :d

[little gust]

Not a personal/mean jab, but I shudder how you deal with finances/managing money.

[wet cypress]

direct debits 😉

no thinking required

[modest breach]

But you have to like. Keep track of something so you aren't just spiraling into negatives

[little gust]

For now, gamewise what others have said holds true, and if something is running slower than you need, follow the missing ingredient source back along the chain until you find where it is veing made, and then build more of the thing to make it.

Repeat that recursively until things run smoothly again.

[wet cypress]

im terrible at managing my money too ngl

[wet cypress]

i will thank you 🙂

i'll stop asking questions here now

[modest breach]

We are not surprised by that statement

Seriously. Put the game down and take some math course. Cause this is dangerous for your finances at this point.

[wet cypress]

i will i'll learn some maths :d

[inner wind]

I guess Factorio is a decent maths course if you are curious enough

[wet cypress]

certainly gives me the motivation to learn.

[inner wind]

Will take a bunch of critical thinking though, since you're basically reinventing stuff from first principles then

[wet cypress]

ngl this will really help me a lot with my job

[modest breach]

It can be if you actually notice the numbers. But this sounds like they need more guidance and help

Please tell me your job doesn't involve math

[wet cypress]

it doesn't lmao

come on now

🤣

[wet cypress]

how do you fix power outage? i just built like 20x boilers and it won't turn my power on

i fixed it nm

[forest breach]

more power generation, at some point you'll want to swap to nuclear

[wet cypress]

when building a train to get copper, iron and more bricks should you smelt them there and load onto the trains or just transport the ores?

[ornate canyon]

either way can work. plates stack to 100 while ore stacks to 50, so you can fit more plates on a train. but, it's a pain setting up a whole smelting setup for every ore mine, and then tearing it down once the mine dries up.

I usually do all my smelting at the base and just bring in ores

[wet cypress]

thank you i'll try this 🙂

[pastel igloo]

either way is viable. electric furnaces are relatively cheap, so smelting on site is fine.
smelting in base allows you to use a more complex smelting setup with prod modules and beacons for extra speed.

[forest breach]

meanwhile i prefer the third option
smelt outside of the base, not at the mine

[pastel igloo]

but its one central smelter right?

[forest breach]

nah

it starts as one smelter
but it's easy to copy/paste somewhere else to add more

and it's not in the center of the base, there's plenty of room to expand/change things

[pastel igloo]

thats a good way indeed. same benefits as in the base smelting

[forest breach]

but without the limitations

[wet cypress]

if you have one belt and you split it into 4 like this is it bad?

[forest breach]

it's bad if it's not useful for you

it's useful for some people to better see what they're working with and their spacings
it's useful if the player desires a small, expensive buffer
it's not useful if you don't want more pollution from creating things you don't use and angering more biters

[wet cypress]

i just saw people doing it in MP

idk why

so i started doing it

[forest breach]

for planning spacing i prefer to just put one row of belts every so often, instead of the full set of belts

or ghost the belts if you plan on having it build when you get bots

[wet cypress]

so whats the point in having 4 exactly?

wouldn't it reduce the spawn rate or it

[forest breach]

what spawn rate?

of enemies? making pollution increases spawns

and/or difficulty

[wet cypress]

like if you have one belt being split into 4. wouldn't that reduce how much belts are being pushed or something since its 50/50

[forest breach]

yes

you still only have one belt of throughput

you don't magically get more items

[wet cypress]

so why do players do this

[forest breach]

some don't know what they are doing
the ones that do, normally don't

you should see some people leave space for the future 3 belts, but start with 1

[wet cypress]

lol okay so theres no purpose in splitting belts into 2-3-4 ?

[forest breach]

there is purpose to putting 4 belts of items on 4 belts of transit

there is not much benefit to 1 belt of item on 4 belts of transit

there is usefulness to having 1 belt of items put on 1 belt of transit, with space for a future 3 belts of items to be put on a future 3 belts of transit next to the original

[wet cypress]

i see i see 🙂

[wet cypress]

thing is though right if i only have one single belt of plastic for example its not going to be used really well but if i split it into 4 i can distrube better?

[forest breach]

what makes it easier to distribute?

[wet cypress]

because its split into 4 and not a single belt

[forest breach]

in the four lane example, you use a splitter early, a ton of belts, and then the split

[wet cypress]

the other 3 belts will have resources distrubuted to them

[forest breach]

with one lane, you'd just splitter at the split, and not use a ton of belts

[wet cypress]

can you show an example of that

[forest breach]

this is what you're describing

[wet cypress]

ohh i see yes. so really using a single belt for a mall on a bus is best?

[forest breach]

it depends

what is the resource consumption like?

[wet cypress]

i have them pupped up to the max

and no enemies

since its my first playthrough

[forest breach]

so you're using like 5000 iron plates/s in your mall or something ridiculous?

you're not going to sustain that with one belt

[wet cypress]

i have this

my train is basically gathering the iron though

[forest breach]

that still doesn't answer this

[wet cypress]

after some experimenting i noticed its better to use a chest than a rail for resources from a train 😄

[wet cypress]

how do i find that out

[forest breach]

add it up or estimate

if you don't know, it's likely "low"

[wet cypress]

yeah idk lol 😄

i do think its easier to get stuff off of a 4 lane belt compared to a single belt of 4 resources

[forest breach]

one lane of a belt is fine for low throughput

[wet cypress]

even for a big bus? idk how to calc the throughput on this

[forest breach]

use addition

[wet cypress]

i mean from where do i calculate like do i look at a belt?

[forest breach]

you look at the machines consuming the material

[wet cypress]

okay i'll try 🙂 can i see your startup?

[forest breach]

(?)

[wet cypress]

like your base

early game one if you have one

[forest breach]

currently have a pre-space SE run, but that's a bit of an adventure

mostly just a mess of "get to space"

[wet cypress]

wow thats really good and only one belt 😉

[forest breach]

what's only one belt?

[wet cypress]

your using only one belt of resources rather than 4

[forest breach]

two copper, two iron, one steel, one glass, one stone brick

but yes, it isn't 4 of each

[wet cypress]

Yeah its good 🙂 i need to learn train circuits you have them i think

signals*

[forest breach]

many, and yet so few

should add more at some point along the straights, but i just didn't feel like doing it yet

[safe sinew]

pre planning for future expansion - don't have to tear down stuff when upgrading bus later in the game

[wet cypress]

i see. im struggling to get past blue science getting to oils and stuff is confusing need so much stuff

[forest breach]

two conditions that will help a lot with oil processing
gas < light oil
light oil < heavy oil
great for cracking to keep everything roughly even

[wet cypress]

yeah but bringing all the materials then moving it around stuff is pretty tough ngl

[forest breach]

but it's the same as the previous sciences, just more building and with some things being pipes instead of belts/inserters

[wet cypress]

only you need , water, oil, light oil, heavy oil, sulfur, acid, iron plates, copper platers and lubricant lmao

how am i supposed to fit all that in

[forest breach]

figure out how many machines you need to acheive the rate of science you desire

then group machines doing the same recipe together

[wet cypress]

my problem is how do i get 5 or more ingredentis too it?

[forest breach]

to what?

what are you trying to craft that takes 5+ ingredients?

i can think of some "crafts" that require 7 in base game, but you're not there yet
and i already showed you how for that

[wet cypress]

all of the ingredients needed for the next science pack

[forest breach]

which

what science pack are you trying to craft that has 5+ ingredients?
is it a mod or something?

[wet cypress]

light, heavy oil, copper plate, iron plate, sulfur, water etc

[forest breach]

i do not know of a science pack that requires those items

please be specific

[wet cypress]

no? you need lubricant for batteries thats one

you need plastic

thats 5 ingredients already lol

[forest breach]

which science pack

[wet cypress]

the yellow one

[forest breach]

batteries has three ingredients
iron plate, copper plate, sulfuric acid

alt+click it, what ingredients does it take?

pretty sure it's 3 ingredients, at most 4

[wet cypress]

alt click lubricant?

[forest breach]

no

the science pack you're trying to craft

[forest breach]

yeah, that's three

blue chip, robot frame, LDS

[wet cypress]

no bruh

plastic

batteries

thats all 5 oil ingredients

[forest breach]

where do you see plastic/batteries in that list?

i see blue chip, robot frame, LDS

[forest breach]

you can mod the game to change the recipes if you wish

but it doesn't seem like you've done that yet

[wet cypress]

its so much crap

[forest breach]

i'd recommend building with a focus on the game's current state instead of what you want it to be/will change it to
ie if you want to change it, change it before building

[wet cypress]

i don't know what you mean by that

[forest breach]

yellow science literally only requires blue chip, robot frame, LDS

none of the other things you posted

[inner wind]

I see you're finding out now

[forest breach]

do you know your goal?

[wet cypress]

science packs

[forest breach]

rate?

[wet cypress]

don't care about rate just want a work structure first

[forest breach]

in that case, place one of each building to do the crafting
it will be slow as balls

finish figuring out your goal before you start

what rate did you build red/green science to?

[wet cypress]

they craft at 0.5/s and i have 8

sorry 23*

[forest breach]

23 crafters for green science?

[wet cypress]

yeah lmao

[forest breach]

23 crafters for red science?

and you say it's 0.5/s per machine *23, so 11.5 science/s?
a bit of a high goal

[wet cypress]

i have 6 red science

[forest breach]

1/s or 0.5/s might be a bit more acheiveable

[wet cypress]

should i store the oils before using them?

[forest breach]

i normally keep one tank of each product so i can measure it for circuits

[wet cypress]

okay i see

[forest breach]

but you can build more or less as you see fit

i also normally build a few tanks to unload crude from my trains into, but not many are actually needed

[wet cypress]

i really do not know how to build this 😦

i just got the water hooked up

[inner wind]

Time to start experimenting then

[wet cypress]

you can't take sulfuric acid out right?

[inner wind]

What do you mean "take it out"?

[wet cypress]

like out of the refiner

[forest breach]

why not?

use a pipe

[inner wind]

Sulfuric acid is a fluid. You can move it around like any other fluid

If you barrel it you can even put it on your belts

[wet cypress]

so like i have to craft batteries in this location?

[inner wind]

Why?

[wet cypress]

im confused how i get it to my bus

[inner wind]

Why?

[wet cypress]

cus id have to move it up here some how?

[inner wind]

Yes

[wet cypress]

like on barrels?

[inner wind]

The game offers multiple ways to move things over various distances

[wet cypress]

best way? 😄

[inner wind]

Barrels are probably the last thing I would recommend you do though

[forest breach]

and you don't have to build it there, or there

you can build it anywhere

[inner wind]

Whichever you think is most fun

[wet cypress]

i'd have to move all the oil and water though 😄

[forest breach]

trains are cool
pipes are useful
but you can airfreight it

although i don't think you have enough research done for that yet

[inner wind]

Yes, I want you to think about how you solve this problem, I don't want to solve it for you

[forest breach]

later you can air freight it

[wet cypress]

okay 🫡

[inner wind]

Solving these things is the peak Factorio gameplay you came here for

(and I've already played enough of it myself - I prefer to think about how to get others to solve such things)

[wet cypress]

yeah but its hard idk what to do

i really really really cba moving stuff all the way up there

[forest breach]

then don't

[inner wind]

Why does it need to be moved up there in the first place?

[wet cypress]

its either that or i have to move all of the products down here 😄

[forest breach]

move it to the area you plan on using to fulfil your current goal - 11.5(?!) blue science/s

(and maybe rethink your goal rate)

[inner wind]

I think matching the red science would be a better idea lmao

[forest breach]

i thought red/green were matching 11.5/s rates or something

or did they go way over on one

[wet cypress]

dog i am not moving it all the way up there

😭

bro now its not even generating protolium

screw this im using a blueprint

[inner wind]

[inner wind]

How does that fix your issue of needing to move sulfuric acid to your faraway bus?

[forest breach]

you mean the ones not plugged in?

[wet cypress]

its plugged in

[inner wind]

Why is it not running?

(click the machine or mouse over it and read the tooltip, it will tell you)

[wet cypress]

doesn't say anything

output isfull?

[inner wind]

Well, there you go

[wet cypress]

how is it full if it hasn't reached this

[inner wind]

Can it reach that?

If you mouse over the pipe network it highlights exactly what is and isn't connected

[wet cypress]

looks connected to me

[inner wind]

To one single refinery. Not the one refinery you pointed out as not working...

[wet cypress]

wym you can't put two on one?

[inner wind]

Though, I see that that one is set to advanced oil processing

With advanced oil processing you need to use all three products. If one backs up it stops the refinery

[wet cypress]

ohhh that fixed it

thank you

[inner wind]

The advantage of advanced refining is that it can give much more petroleum per crude oil (and that it gives you the other oil products you'll need)

Still, why not connect this to the other petroleum lines though?

[forest breach]

way better of a recipe if you have it available
you'll just also want to put in cracking

[wet cypress]

someone just give me a recipe dude. im tired of this

[inner wind]

Here you go

[forest breach]

that one

yeah

[wet cypress]

this is so bad

[forest breach]

in many perspectives
yes

i think you might need more than one battery crafter to achieve 11.5 blue science/s
in case that's still your goal

[wet cypress]

how to improve the design

ive spent 2 days on oil

getting fed up now

might just get a blueprint

[forest breach]

decide what you want from it

important first step that you keep skipping

[wet cypress]

idek what that means though obviously sulfuric acid and batteries for science

[forest breach]

how much sulfuric acid?
how many batteries?

quantify your goals

[wet cypress]

enough

idk how you even calculate

[forest breach]

pick a number for your overall goal

you can't calculate it until you have that number known

[wet cypress]

1 a second?

[inner wind]

Did you not see the whole thing about maths yesterday?

[forest breach]

i think i did

it wasn't pretty

[inner wind]

More than enough

[forest breach]

solid, start laying out blue science crafters to reach 1/s

anywhere will do for now

[inner wind]

You could probably go for half that and still not be lacking on science

[wet cypress]

how many are needed for 1/s?

[forest breach]

1 / 0.04 -> 25

you may find a mod useful in keeping track of these things

[wet cypress]

what mod?

[forest breach]

given your natural struggles with the topic

[distant cedar]

Factory Planner

This mod allows you to plan your production in advance, specifying the recipes and machines that make up each assembly line. It provides powerful features that are fast and intuitive to use, so you can focus on actually building your factory.

Author

Therenas

Downloads

277579

Factorio version

2.0

[safe sinew]

rate calculator

[forest breach]

as i mentioned before

[inner wind]

Rate calculator might be the better pick here tbh

[forest breach]

haven't looked too much into it

[inner wind]

Build machines, select them, see total production rate

[forest breach]

ah

does it also say how much consumption?

[safe sinew]

yes

[forest breach]

though that might still be too much effort for them, factory planner will say how many machines to do the desired rate

[safe sinew]

though rate calc is much easier to use

[wet cypress]

how do i use it

[forest breach]

i think you used it

it's telling you it's making 0.042 science per second?

[wet cypress]

it says that anyway

[forest breach]

but also 0.021, unsure what that's about

place 10 of them

then drag the rate calculator over all 10

[wet cypress]

ohhh i see

[forest breach]

so that would be if you want to guess and check your rates constantly

[wet cypress]

about this much

[forest breach]

placing machines, then dragging over to see if you got your goal

factory planner would be putting in the rate, and it just telling you how many it would be

very useful in things like space exploration

[wet cypress]

its this many exactly

24 actually

[safe sinew]

its also good for locating bottlenecks - since it automatically makes math and shows production and consumption - if there where machines selected with matching in and outputs

[forest breach]

seems like plan with factory planner, double check with rate calculator once built

[wet cypress]

idk how to use it

[forest breach]

use what? factory planner?

[wet cypress]

yeah

[forest breach]

create new factory
select blue science, 1/s
click things to make them show up as an entry for crafting calculations

[forest breach]

click the (red)blue pot

[forest breach]

now you can click the (green)engine if you want that in your plans

[wet cypress]

what green engine

[inner wind]

You can now click the ingredients to go down a level. Repeat until you reach stuff you can readily provide

[forest breach]

in the middle ish of your screen in the ingredients

there is an engine with a green background

[wet cypress]

this?

[forest breach]

yes

[wet cypress]

bruh i need 20??

[forest breach]

yes, but you might end up making 24 if you want

[inner wind]

Sounds about right, they're pretty slow to make

[forest breach]

some people just direct insert it at that point

since it's close to 1:1

[wet cypress]

and with red science i need 10. and only 3 smelters and one gear thing lol?

[inner wind]

Yup

[wet cypress]

bruh why tf i build ten for it

[inner wind]

You did not do the math

[wet cypress]

this planner is really good. so i add an item it shows ingredients if i click ingredients list it shows how many i need to make for the final ingredient to be built at that rate?

[inner wind]

Yes

[wet cypress]

so apparently i only need a single sulfur

[inner wind]

Repeat until you get to raw materials or other stuff you can provide in bulk

[forest breach]

less than a single chemplant doing sulfur, yeah

[wet cypress]

for 24 assemblers is insane

[forest breach]

it's a slow recipe

[wet cypress]

but nice i need less than i thought

[inner wind]

Do note that right now it's using assembling machine 1's

If you have higher tier ones you can do the same with fewer machines

[forest breach]

should have access to 50% faster blue assembling machines

but not yet the yellow ones that are 1.25 speed

[wet cypress]

i know its not perfect but this is all i need?

[inner wind]

Apparently

Don't worry the next science packs will need much more

[wet cypress]

interesting

it seems to be working

[lyric oak]

I'm late to the party, but my advice for automating things: look at the list of ingridients, pick one, connect it to machine (with belts), repeat

This is how I play, and this workflow works for stupidly complicated recipes with a million steps

It really comes down to just doing things one tiny step at a time

[wet cypress]

its not that thats the problem for me its when you get the belts correctly in order to do it properly

[lyric oak]

How do you mean, like connecting things with belts is the hard part?

[wet cypress]

the layout of things

like a mall for example

apparently this is 1/s

[lyric oak]

It looks like you did it right to me

[forest breach]

looks like you can actually build things once you know what you're building

without a goal, you are aimless

[wet cypress]

yeah thats true tbh

i see what you mean now. pick a goal how much of item to make then make it

[lyric oak]

Yes that's very good advice too. Having a goal is very important

[wet cypress]

now i have to do the next science 😭

[safe sinew]

oh yes, i feel it. maybe try the mod: todo list helps to not forget where you where working when something interrupts

[wet cypress]

i'll get it thank you

[lyric oak]

I like to use map pins as a todo list too

Pin locations of stuff i need to fix, or work on

[wet cypress]

thats a good idea

[wet cypress]

How do you guys plan out stuff when it comes to creating an automation machine to make a item you want or do you just use blueprints

[stiff wind]

I make all blueprints myself.

I use Helmod to do the math, then place down stuff until it does what it should, and looks nice.

[distant cedar]

Helmod: Assistant for planning your factory

Assistant for planning your factory. Can calculate required ingredients, products, machines, modules, and beacons. Can also calculate power production / consumption.

Author

Helfima

Downloads

465429

Factorio version

2.0

[wet cypress]

yeah but i need to know how you go about building them

[stiff wind]

I place stuff down. ASMs, belts, inserters, ....
Designing factory blocks isn't something that can be taught easily. Best way to learn is doing it yourself.

[wet cypress]

do you shift place first before actually building or no

[abstract tapir]

I make small blocks of whatever end product i need, and try to scale from there. In this case its a modded item, but it shows my progress pretty well.

I've outlined my initial blocks with red:

I'm working in a sandbox though, to test modules etc, but same logic works with shift place first 🙂

to get a feel of where the buildings needs to go, how much space they need and so on

[wet cypress]

So you basically start building the end product assembler first?

[abstract tapir]

yeah, depends on what i build though

if its just basic sciences i put down as many assemblers as the conveyers can take

and don't really care about ratios

but with something isolated as this, i like it to be more balanced

[stiff wind]

I plan the entire thing out in Helmod, including what goes into what factory block. Then I start designing the blocks in any order.

All of that is done in a sandbox environment. Editor Extensions in my case.

[wet cypress]

so you start like this?

[distant cedar]

Editor Extensions

Extends the Factorio map editor with new features, testing tools, and quality of life changes. Also adds a separate editor lab that can be used to design blueprints separately from your main factory. Inspired by Creative Mode.

Author

raiguard

Downloads

104678

Factorio version

2.0

[abstract tapir]

almost yes

when in my bus i overproduce whatever ingredients goes into the science pack though, as i probably need them for a mall or something else that is not directly science related

[wet cypress]

okay and do you use like the ghost mode or actually build? so i should place my end product down in my case science. then build the other stuff around it?

[abstract tapir]

mostly ghost mode when planning positioning of assemblers, then place stuff when it comes to inserters and belts

placing belts, inserters and power poles twice is annoying, so i just stick to assemblers

a lot of stuff is tileable and can be ratioed correctly, take this for example, in the mod i'm playing its 1 assembler with cables for 2 assemblers making circuits, it ends up like this:

to arrive there i first placed the circuit assembler to see how much i needed of any given resource, then i placed the cable assemblers, mirrored the whole thing and added inserters and belts last

[wet cypress]

i see thank you 🙂 so you basically build in reverse

[stiff wind]

ghost mode is useful when you want bots to build something
for designing stuff in the editor (or any other sandbox environment), that benefit isn't there. can just build regularily

[wet cypress]

using the mod you using?

[abstract tapir]

eh, if you're trying out positions its very useful

Using alt+d to remove the ghosts in case something doesnt pan out is easier

[stiff wind]

In the editor, everything is instantly destroyed with the decon planner

very helpful when deleting chests. their contents vaporise when decon'd

[wet cypress]

how do i use this helmod

[stiff wind]

press "U" to open it's GUI
then click buttons. can't help you more, I'm not sure I understand everything it does

[abstract tapir]

note that any mod disables steam achievements

[wet cypress]

i don't see how this mod is any different from factory planner

[abstract tapir]

its basically the same

[wet cypress]

yeah this isn't what i meant at all tbh

i mean actually designing

[abstract tapir]

create a sandbox map

and save your designs as blueprints for use in your main save

[wet cypress]

how do you do that ?

[abstract tapir]

then write /editor in console once you're in the gmae

do yourself a favor and set starting area to max, and biter expansion off

[wet cypress]

hwere do i set the starting area to max?

bruh how you exit /editor lol

can you not spawqn are you stuck in map viewer mode?

[abstract tapir]

you don't need a player in sandbox

[distant cedar]

Error while executing command faq:

Could not find Console or any similarly tags in FAQ tags.
Would you like to search the wiki?

Console

The console is Factorio's in-game command-line interface. See command line parameters for the command line interface of the Factorio executable.

The in-game console can be used for:

• Chatting with other players
• Occasional status updates
• Running commands / scripts / cheatsThere are three types of commands:
• Normal - Display information about the game and customize your experience.
• Multiplayer - Message filtering, banning users, etc.
• Scripting/Cheating - Run small Lua scripts (but they disable achievements for the save game)

[abstract tapir]

the console is where you do /editor

max start area is in mapgen settings

[wet cypress]

okay i see

[stiff wind]

Editor Extensions comes with a Lab environment.
Press Ctrl + Alt + E to enter it.
Can use it in your normal run, or in the sandbox. It's like editor mode, but with some improvements.

[stiff wind]

Why not disable biters entirely?

[abstract tapir]

can do that too

[wet cypress]

how do you spawn in the resources or do you have to mine them?

[abstract tapir]

Check out infinity chests

And loaders, I'm not at the pc atm

[forest breach]

the last(?) tab has a bunch of useful purple buildings
infinity chest/pipe/power/...

first tab has the loaders