FFF Speculations

[small bear]

I know its not gonna happen but imagine factorio having real 3D Map

[sweet wind]

You could increase the cap to whatever you wanted, but you'd have to reduce to recycler output to match

400% cap -> 20% recycle output. 500% cap -> ~17% recycle output. etc.

[heavy adder]

Haters would call it Satisfactory

[bold shard]

I guess prod modules would have to scale up too then in terms of quality, or you'd need different tiers to compensate

[small bear]

well I mean more like land elevations

[heavy adder]

Ooh

Imagine

Mountain Planet in 3.0 surely

[sweet wind]

They fake that pretty well with cliffs

[heavy adder]

Ye 2.0 cliffs will actually make some sence

[sweet wind]

SE 0.7 will be taking it to the extreme iirc with a very mountanous planet with indestructable cliffs

[small bear]

imagine valley u go across by rail using rail supports but not needing ramps

[heavy adder]

Rn they Just block everything for me to walk 10 tiles over to get to were i want

[small bear]

and mountain u climb using rail ramps but no need of support

and imagine several levels of that

[heavy adder]

That would take some type of layer system

With unified smallest height metric

Sounds really fun tho

[bold shard]

caves and underground levels would be cool in factorio

[small bear]

cliff explosive would remove actual mountain, landfill can fill actual valley

[heavy adder]

Real caveman experience

Imagine landfilling a valley

10 stone patches gone

[sweet wind]

I feel like they could still fake it pretty well with some extra work on rail placement logic and certain tiles

just not worth it

[small bear]

u use cliff explosive u move a mountain here

[pale pumice]

where have I heard of that before

[sweet wind]

Hold on let me check if it's in the public channel

[pale pumice]

it's a vulcanus joke

[sweet wind]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/781891491827286068/1178737159390371950/iridium-planet.png?ex=6635bc46&is=66346ac6&hm=03231437934c045fcb009913b4b63022cc82278a82c6926cae09988000887962&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1195&height=597

[small bear]

iirc its already published at devlog so its okay

[sweet wind]

Yeah it's in the public devlog channel

[pale pumice]

when would it not be okay to share?

[small bear]

when its in patereon I guess

[sweet wind]

When it's still only shared to patrons

[pale pumice]

What happens if a patron shares it

[sweet wind]

I mean, it wouldn't not be okay I guess, just a little disrespectful

[pale pumice]

makes sense

[small bear]

now with the new beacon balance I wonder if its a good time to introduce new beacon types

[sweet wind]

Yeah, iirc each beacon type can have it's own curve? would be interesting

[pale pumice]

I personally am not a fan of beacon types

[sweet wind]

Yeah I'm not a huge fan, it adds a few too many layers of complexity I find

[heavy adder]

You mean similae to poles?

[sweet wind]

But it would still be interesting

[heavy adder]

And they Balance range/effect

[pale pumice]

I don't think it is complicated, I just think it is bloat.

[sweet wind]

Well it would have to be complex to not be bloat

[small bear]

what if beacons now have slightly larger range?

previously having larger range would destroy the balance but not now anymore

[pale pumice]

do we still have the kovarex image?

[sweet wind]

Would be pretty silly if beacons could be layered around a machine

[small bear]

yes

[pale pumice]

send it

[pale pumice]

1 tile more range wouldn't do that,

[pale pumice]

well you could do 2x actually

if they touch directly

[small bear]

yup

[pale pumice]

it is possible this is just an old build

[small bear]

but its not like 2x beacon would give u a lot more

[pale pumice]

but I think it won't happen

[sweet wind]

It wouldn't get you a lot more but it would still be 'better' and look very silly

I never liked the K2 singularity beacons because if this

[small bear]

two breads on each side of sandwich

[small bear]

well in theory they can make additional beacons pass a certain number not giving u extra overall benefit

say up to 16

[sweet wind]

Yeah but I wouldn't want that because it's arbitrary and unintuitive

The table should still follow some basic formula that's easy enough to understand

[small bear]

1/sqrt(x) is probably the easiest diminishing return formula

[pale pumice]

I would dislike.

[small bear]

if this is not the accurate answer I can only imagine segmented functions

[sweet wind]

Beacons following different formulas for different ranges of beacon counts would not be fun to play with

[pale pumice]

One thing I like about this one is that the derivative is always positive

yours would not have that effect

I think more beacons should always be stronger

Just that the returns should be diminishing

[pale pumice]

@small bear earendel online early

[small bear]

it mean its either beacon or Bwuhuo

or

Bwuhuo the beacon planet!

[pale pumice]

lmao it can be both or neither

[small bear]

technical fff

[raven bridge]

Beacochus

[small bear]

well

beacons

humm

seems like its not exactly 1/sqrt

oh the base transmpower is 1.5

instead of 1

and its still 1/sqrt(x)

and quality scaling is not from 1 to 2.5, instead its from 1.5 to 2.5

and still reduce power draw

[subtle temple]

it's close now, I can feel it

[magic crest]

The expansion will be released whenever Half-Life 3 comes out.

[bold mirage]

Half life 3 by november the latest lets goooo

[raven bridge]

Half Life 3 is waiting for better VR

I'm not even joking, it was mentioned somewhere

[bold mirage]

Very cool that fluids can go through the em plant

Wait fr??

[raven bridge]

nothing official, just rumors

[tired fossil]

Seems like foundry is the better choice for copper cables than em plant

[desert lake]

I didn't even notice that

Wow

Ngl that's huge, I love it

[bold mirage]

apparently a recent change too

[proper ember]

yeah I wanted to do that for a while

one day the cup just filled XD

[pale pumice]

Is the FFF thumbnail used for anything?

It's really good looking

Oh! it's technology icon already!

[raven bridge]

part 1 this week?

[pale pumice]

I want to believe.

The Nilaus Index: We can measure FFF impacts by whether Nialus covers the FFF.

We are officially out of the drought now with the beacons FFF - hope this pattern continues :)

[raven bridge]

I measure it by reddit comments and score

[pale pumice]

Do you have a graph of that? I'd be exstatic to see it.

[raven bridge]

graph no, but it shouldn't be too hard to extract

[pale pumice]

did beacons shoot up?

[raven bridge]

Not yet

It's too new

[bold mirage]

I think I've mentioned this before but given how we can process holmium raw or make it into a solution to use in the foundry, who knows if the bwuhuo building could also serve as an ore refinery of some sort

tho maybe that would be a bit too many steps from ore to plate, we already have an extra one with the foundry

[small bear]

I think it’s unlikely. building already doesn’t give u extra ore processing steps. And although foundry add a melting step, it also allows u to directly casr gears, wires and steel

[small bear]

its the foundry which gives better ore processing, not or machine

[raven bridge]

The important part is that "melting holmium ore" is done with rather than calcite

It's used directly in the EMP and can be plated in the foundry

But it's very likely holmium can be smelted directly in furnaces

I won't be surprised if stuff on Aquilo will require multiple "fluid" metals to do things

[bold mirage]

well, in the case of holmium solution, the ore processing (as in, raw ore to solution) is done on a chemplant (and presumably bacchus' building will also be able to do it) and then it goes on the foundry

[raven bridge]

foundry and an EMP for electrolytes

Naturally, it could be smelted into plates using some a building like a furnaces, as we may not have foundries at that time

[small bear]

electrolytes only need chemplants and EMP

foundry is for holmium plate

[raven bridge]

That's what I said

[small bear]

I thought u mean (foundry and EMP) for electrolytes

[raven bridge]

You use to turn holmium ore to holmium fluid and that goes into EMP or foundry

But you can probably turn holmium ore to plate with furnace

[small bear]

Id imagine we have simple ore to plate recipe for holmium in electric furnace

[raven bridge]

or even non-electric furnace

[small bear]

we saw no new smelting recipe for steel furnace in factoriopedia

[raven bridge]

That's a non-SA furnace, as it would have quality icon near "Crafting speed"

[small bear]

yeah

[raven bridge]

Still it would be enough to make and from it

[small bear]

still hard to imagine steel furnace on

because u get easy and for

[solemn cosmos]

thats nice

[small bear]

I just realized that its SA disabled pedia

[pale pumice]

@small bear should note at least boilers work

[small bear]

wdym

[pale pumice]

On Fulgora

so steel furnace is not outlandish

[small bear]

well

[raven bridge]

It has to work for us to get

(or )

[pale pumice]

Why?

You can get that from recycle concrete

[small bear]

no? u can probably hand craft lightning rods from scrap recycling results

[raven bridge]

Assuming is recycleable, but yea that's a good point

[small bear]

not even mention that u can’t kickstart boilers without chemplants melting ice

[small bear]

u don’t need to assume. it is as shown in trash fff

also battery recycles to plates

as an exception of chemplant recipe

[raven bridge]

Oh? I didn't notice a getting recycled

And now I did

[small bear]

we found iron ore on the sushi belt

[raven bridge]

Nevermind then

OK so we don't need burner furnaces

[small bear]

how does that relate to burner furnaces tho, u mean ?

[raven bridge]

It relates that we don't need a to turn into for because we can get from

[bold mirage]

might be better than , is infinite from heavy oil and power may not be that abundant

at least until you want to start prodding stuff

[bold shard]

why even talk about burner furnaces in the first place? is this a conserving power thing?

[short patio]

Space is also at a premium, and are smaller than

[bold shard]

yeah could be a good early-midgame use

not sure how much actual smelting you'll do on the planet 🤷‍♂️

[short patio]

Even if it's only a little, it's better to make it small

[bold shard]

holmium yes, plus iron ore from the concrete if you want to use it

[raven bridge]

Also no enemy bases to be summoned by pollution

[bold mirage]

true

[bold shard]

we don't know anything about the enemies or their behavior to be fair, even if they don't expand it can very well react to pollution and attack stuff

[raven bridge]

Though power might be cheap, we don't know

[bold mirage]

until you start making electromagentic science packs, you are stuck with the small lightning rod

so at least at that stage, burners may be worth it

[raven bridge]

They said the planet is desolate with nothing living there

[short patio]

A more typical use for furnaces might be to turn spare iron into steel

[bold shard]

that only applies to living things though

[raven bridge]

Iron is harder to get there than steel though

[bold shard]

angry robot guards or something to that extent

[short patio]

You get more iron, but there could be even more uses for steel

[raven bridge]

You get and not

[bold shard]

maybe that resource rich thing on is a factory building converting the scrap into units which spawn and can move around

[bold mirage]

you beat me to it haha

[short patio]

12% gears turns into 1.5% iron

[raven bridge]

6% plate

Which is nice actually

[sweet wind]

Have quality rocket silos been mentioned anywhere?

The easy thing would be if they had a higher crafting speed, but it hardly seems necessary on a machine that is hard capped by the animation.

[quasi crest]

faster animation?

[sweet wind]

The silo can now craft a buffer rocket and the animation skips the door closing/opening

if the speed is fast enough

but the animation doesn't actually speed up

[raven bridge]

Quality are faster. The animation was buffed by removing door animations if there's a rocket buffered

[quasi crest]

i totally forgot thaat

[sweet wind]

Yeah but I would have thought that with high quality speed beacons and the cheaper rocket that you'd still hit the cap pretty fast

I suppose they could increase the time it takes to make a rocket by a lot

[small bear]

well it could be 1 1 1 per rocket section, and each rocket need 50 sections

instead of 10 per rocket section and only need 5 sections

[sweet wind]

I would expect that to be the case, but that's still half as many crafts per rocket.

https://cdn.factorio.com/assets/blog-sync/fff-405-faster-rockets.mp4

Surrounded by beacons it completes 100 in much less than the time it takes for a rocket to launch

Although that would be before the beacon rework

but the break point for legendary 2.0 beacons vs normal 1.1 beacons would be 25 beacons so it would still be much stronger not even considering quality modules or silos

Surely something else is going on with rocket crafting in Space Age

(I'm probably overthinking it and it just isn't really worth building quality silos)

[pure siren]

If quality has an effect it will be worth it in the long run.

[sweet wind]

Well that's the thing, it isn't always the case

namely with the stuff that doesn't get a benefit other than more health

Maybe a quality rocket silo could use less power

[bold mirage]

prod research perhaps?

although with all the rocket components already having one it's a bit a bit overkill

[desert lake]

Definitely overkill

[pure siren]

If it's only health, then yeah, not worth it. Health is the default effect though, so it doesn't really count for that matter.

[small bear]

high quality night vision 😅

[desert lake]

High quality night vision lets you see other surfaces without radars

[pure siren]

but only at night

[quasi crest]

or perhaps with... colors?

[primal nacelle]

Mod idea: Phase-presence or something. Meaning: you are constantly present on all planets. And every action you take happens on all surfaces. Would most likely not work out at all

[desert lake]

Technically not unplayable, but still an absolute nightmare

Your poor vulcanus part would just be completely useless until you research solar 😭😭😭

[elder raptor]

So you start on every planet at once? That sounds fun tbh

[final dove]

Would it be too out there for quality rockets to have increased carrying capacity?

[candid pawn]

no

[bold shard]

it seems like a reasonable reward for getting all of the chips/fuel/LDS to the higher quality

[sweet wind]

Personally I don't like the idea of quality rockets, there's a lot of opportunities for it to be quite frustrating

[candid pawn]

like what?

[sweet wind]

What happens if any of the ingredients are of a different quality to the rest? If it's consistent with how quality works elsewhere, then it would be whatever the lowest of all the ingredients are.

Would probably need to have a 'select recipe' option on the rocket silo then to make sure it doesn't happen by mistake

Even then, rockets are a single cost item and using more expensive materials to launch more at once would not be particularly useful when you could just launch more rockets

It's similar to producing quality science, you're usually better off just using productivity and making more science of normal quality than significantly less science of higher quality

Unless quality rockets give so much of a payload boost to be better than normal quality rockets in terms of resources/Kg launched, which I don't think would encourage interesting gameplay.

[bold shard]

I'd agree its not necessarily very interesting but what other options are there for

the way I see it, if someone really wants to go through the hassle of building a rocket with them.... fine, enjoy your XX% added capacity

will I ever use it? probably not. are there any cases it would be a good strategic choice? probably very few.

[raven bridge]

The only thing rocket parts can do is build the rocket faster. But that's unlikely...

[small bear]

rocket has increasing chance to return fish as launch results

[desert lake]

A rocket can’t have quality, it’s not an item or an entity

Only rocket parts could have it, and even then they’re immediately consumed to fill the progress bar

[desert lake]

So unless they make some very strange changes this is the only option

And it’s about the same as the quality science pack situation

[pure siren]

they just need to add quality to the progress bar

use lowest quality of all rocket parts to determine quality of the actual rocket

[sweet wind]

That would definitely be a very strange change

[pure siren]

I don't think we get quality rockets though, the logistics of changing payload capacity is a bit nightmarish

[raven bridge]

We aren't even getting rocket changes for gravity, so quality is even less likely

[tired fossil]

Cliff explosive research is then on which planet?

[bold mirage]

vulcanus, most likely

[raven bridge]

This week FFF will be , and we'll finally see some new wildlife.

[tired fossil]

Hard to choose the first planet to visit

[raven bridge]

Easy choice for me...

[tired fossil]

after nauvis 😅

[raven bridge]

Between and , probably because it's easier to build the silo to go back to .
Bringing an EMP or two to will make it easier to build rockets there as well.

[pale pumice]

Vulcanus has the materials that an EMP wants

It's one thing that's kinda weird about the EMP - it's better on Vulcanus

[tired fossil]

Hyped for foundry BMD and cliff explosives on the one side, and on the other thinking about a quick visit before to fulgora, just to set the first recycling setup up, build a rocket and let it fill a buffer while on volcanos 😅

[bold mirage]

on higher biter settings you may want to leave for last, since there doesn't seem to be any evolution to worry about there

[tired fossil]

But yeah, we will see hopefully soon what baccus willl offer

[bold mirage]

bacchus is going to be a great support for the other two

[tired fossil]

For now it seems so, but i doubt there will be no other enemy than lightnings

[bold mirage]

at least one planet has no enemies so the point still stands but yeah

I wonder how they'll balance that

[tired fossil]

Maybe the balance is power shortage, so u need eff modules to have enough power even when pollution does not matter

[raven bridge]

It's possible the white rectangles are robot defenses

[vocal rock]

I would visit fulgora first on high biter settings - it's great place to get some great quality diplomatic tools

[raven bridge]

What diplomatic tools do you get on ?

[vocal rock]

Quality armor and equipment will be easy to make on fulgora

[bold mirage]

no biters means nothing really stops you from running a few thousand tiles from the get go to get to the 100M+ patches, wich is a weird thing to allow from the get go

[tired fossil]

Oh thats true, first opportunity for recyle loop

[bold mirage]

I guess fulgora would work well as a safe haven, unlikely you'll ever loose that base

[raven bridge]

I don't think resources are the issue there anyway

[tired fossil]

Could be that there are only static defence for new scrap fields so this would be convenient

Is there any other option to move between the islands than trains?

No chance of walking in the oily sand?

[bold mirage]

you can walk yes

I imagine car/tank/spider work well too

[raven bridge]

Yes you can drive on it. It's basically "shallow water"

[bold mirage]

the choice to have a planet with no enemies still feels weird to me, technically they said new, but having biters on another planet would feel even weirder :p

[raven bridge]

already has 🌩️

[tired fossil]

Walk and drive but be back before night when the lightnings strikes - sounds interesting

[bold mirage]

not an enemy, in fact beneficial, and trivially dealt with at pretty much any stage tho

[raven bridge]

You should definitely have some lightning rods on your person so you could make base if you get stuck

[tired fossil]

Yeah but u need land for it to place

[bold mirage]

just dodge them /s

[raven bridge]

You can dodge them. The devs said the videos exaggerated them for effect

[candid pawn]

wait, all of the videos have exaggerated lightning?

I know some do but ...

[tired fossil]

They buffed them in the vid, but how to dodge lightnings?

[bold shard]

you sound very confident, I hope you're right

[raven bridge]

It's the cadence we saw so far

[candid pawn]

We're currently at 24% of FFF's being about other planets or space since and including the Space Age announcement FFF

also including one of the two two music FFF's (which I think is fair as it was about music for other planets)

[pale pumice]

@raven bridge I’m feeling Bacchus this week too.

[raven bridge]

What's a Bacchus?

I'm feeling

[pale pumice]

Finally JG will stop saying that

[raven bridge]

I wonder if they will mention that name other than in a joke name

That name is technically in an FFF already

[pale pumice]

Yeah lol

I wonder how many people get the joke vs think it’s just a trump joke

[lilac arrow]

why would it be a trump joke

oh, the make x great again, not bwuhuo

[pale pumice]

Yeah

[slender glen]

x was never great. not even before it was named x

[pure siren]

Bwuhuo?
Twitter?
USA?
not sure what JG is talking about. I hope it's not Bwuhuo.

[slender glen]

only one of those things is named x

[pale pumice]

(I read wrong)

[pure siren]

x is also the standard variable, so I decided to substitute a few things in

but I'm glad Bwuhuo is great :)

[raven bridge]

🇧 🇦 🇨 🇨 🇭 🇺 🇸

[tired fossil]

So we make wine on bacchus...? 😅

[gilded mica]

Fermenting the sweet biter corpses

[slender glen]

so you can run everyday software on your linux based combinators

[tired fossil]

Ah thats why linux uses pipes

[visual dome]

What the heck is bacchus

[bold mirage]

in less than two days we'll finally know 🙏

[pale pumice]

in 2 days raiguard will post 'linux advertures: part 2'

[solemn cosmos]

What kind of FFF do you think we will have?
💻 = technical
= quality of life
= new planet showcase
🤯 = new machine

[vocal rock]

oh, new wild life FFF, nice

[ashen herald]

New planet reveal will just be exploration, we'll have to wait to see what the special machine is there.

[topaz wing]

yes but new planet tomorrow would most likely mean new machine next week

[small bear]

imagine if its not

[late venture]

Each planet will have its own type of fish

[topaz wing]

Factorio will not be complete without a fishing minigame

[small bear]

just like Satisfactory without golf

[lilac arrow]

well technically there is, it's called ||launching space science packs back into space||

[desert lake]

The entire rocket tree is actually a fishing minigame

[small bear]

list of Bacchus idea:
-mining coral reefs
-fishing
-tree farm
-harvesting seeds and grow them in greenhouses
-special machine give prod bonus to chemistry/explosives/military recipes
-flooding mechanics

I wonder if the help u get from bacchus tech is better multi planet management. Say spidertron is a good one to take care of planets remotely, and rocket turrets allow space platforms to travel through more routes (possibly between the secondary planets) for more efficient shipment, perhaps also artillery here to take care of long term enemy base expansion (and possibly for huge asteroids on the way to Aquilo)

[candid pawn]

plankton!

[small bear]

raft.exe

[pale pumice]

you guys are talking about it like fff: bacchus is already out lol

[candid pawn]

it will be a QoL FFF

[small bear]

technically, better military production also helps multi planet management because u can deal with enemies easier

I hope rocket silo tech is cheaper than 1000

just let us go space even earlier

[bold shard]

imagine if was less about production and more about military stuff

[small bear]

can’t imagine that in a game about automation

[halcyon bolt]

im hoping for it's threat against the factorio to be overgrowth

[bold shard]

tech wise I mean

[small bear]

sure

even production wise

[stable summit]

Military fff would be cool aswell

[halcyon bolt]

imagine your power getting cut off cause a jungle grew into your power line

[small bear]

I wonder if the 1.1 military options will have some rework/rebalance

[pale pumice]

@small bear only 2:30 to go. I wonder if we’re right about the FFF. Remember that it can be huge even if we’re wrong 😉

[candid pawn]

new FFF prediction: hexes

[subtle temple]

I predict FFF today will contain the word "the"

[topaz wing]

I hope has birds

[half mountain]

I hate this

Rails 2 already make hexes much nicer looking.

[raven bridge]

imagine if it's not today

[pale pumice]

It's still more likely not than it is.

There are many FFFs and Bacchus is only one.

It's just much more likely than before.

[raven bridge]

I don't see E though

[primal nacelle]

Would not count on that. In that position, I would on purpose either stay hidden or be online at random times

[bold mirage]

I want to believe

[vocal rock]

he was talking about being more careful on fridays last time

[bold mirage]

huh #friday-facts message

[pale pumice]

Last week E noticed us speculating on them being here, so I would not go so fast.

[bold mirage]

so hype they have to gaslight us

[raven bridge]

Not

[small bear]

well, predicted target priority

[bold mirage]

👀

[stable summit]

Are we going to cultivate biters (or other enemies)?

That sounds like a thing that would fit on

[bold mirage]

rocket assisted "peaceful ranching"

[tired fossil]

Turn on and off turrets sounds interesting for early laser and managing powerdrain

[bold mirage]

the space platform in the fff uses walls btw

[topaz wing]

Why does this FFF feel like a setup for next week?

[vocal rock]

target priority is so amazing, rocket turrets not gonna waste resources on small/medium biters

[small bear]

I feel the same, its like they want to explain the turrets before revealing

it’s possible u unlock both rocket turrets and spidertron there

[desert lake]

It’s bwuhuover…

[small bear]

I still wonder how the train interrupt-in-interrupt is crucial on a undisclosed planet

I think the upcoming fffs will either be or new combat

or both

int-in-int is not crucial on afaik because dev said trains are immune to lightning

#friday-facts message

[bold mirage]

oh

thought it only applied to rails

[small bear]

and even if not, u still don’t need int-in-int. u just let trains wait at the station and don’t go out

all your train stations should have lighting protection anyway

[pure siren]

This opens up a few nice opportunities, one useful thing is reading the turret contents to enable and disable a train stop bringing ammo.
Disabling train stations is apparently still a feature in 2.0.

[small bear]

yes, its just that its equivalent to setting limit to 0

[pure siren]

Oh, I thought that was removed entirely

[small bear]

so the incoming train won’t reroute

[pure siren]

also, reading turret ammo might helps us design circuitry to prevent bots from suiciding

[bold mirage]

wall tech is going to be amazing in 2.0, let alone SA

very excited

[pale pumice]

This is correct. the only difference is that you cannot stop an in-route train.

[small bear]

I can’t imagine what scenario we’ll need int-in-int

[pale pumice]

I can't either tbh.

[small bear]

afaik, int-in-int is only useful when u have long interrupts

[pale pumice]

Our guesses are on Bacchus or Aquilo, but that is sorta 'god of the gaps' mindset where we just come up with those because we know nothing about them.

[pure siren]

Telling trains to hide in a depot when a thunderstorm is around was a good guess.

[pale pumice]

I don't think so tbh

That can be done easily without int in int

and int in int doesn't even let you do that

int in int cannot change the path of an already pathed train.

[pure siren]

a true, only evaluated at stops

[pale pumice]

Yes. This is the most commonly misunderstood thing. There is no way with the new system to change a train's path once it is assigned.

[small bear]

that mean the int-in-int is only meaningful when u have a multiple stop interrupt

but I wonder why we would ever need a multiple stop interrupt

[pure siren]

There is another part of the Space Age expansion where target filtering will play a crucial role, but that is for another week...
this is easy though: is a boss mob that needs to be taken care of asap

[small bear]

or mixed enemies that are immune to different damage types

[bold mirage]

perhaps on the last planet evo changes damage resistance instead of hp/defense

[pure siren]

we have that thing with asteroids, not sure Wube will use that twice

i.e. target filtering/priority being crucial
optimising is kind of optional

[small bear]

I think for asteroids its more like simply larger ones has higher resistance, not different type have different resistance

[pure siren]

I think the resistances are 100% and "cumulative". i.e. medium and above is resistant to Laser, big and above resistant to Guns, etc.

Laser is no use against anything but small asteroids

[small bear]

yes that what I think

so its not like a mixture of A and B where A is immune to guns and B is immune to explosions

technically for asteroids u can just use rockets all the way

[pure siren]

at least until your ammo runs out

[bold mirage]

the thing with lasers in space is I don't see them being used early on bc of power constrains, and I don't see people replacing their higher damage guns later on

It's a weird niche

[small bear]

hummmm, so it’s possible that on the music fff space platform, rocket turrets are set to ignore the huge asteroids for demonstration

[raven bridge]

It was said they aren't effective again asteroids

But maybe they are good against the space biters

[small bear]

not sure if they are different versions or different sized asteroid icons

left is blue/orange indication iron and copper, middle is black/yellow indication carbon/sulfur

[raven bridge]

Sizes possibly

[pure siren]

possibly, but we need a 4th turret type for big asteroids then

[small bear]

why?

[topaz wing]

or separate nuke rocket launchers with separate target priorities

[small bear]

guns deal with both medium and small

rocket deals with large

[pale pumice]

@small bear I believe thyme means the huge asteroids.

[small bear]

humm

or should we call them behemoth asteroids

[pure siren]

no, if rocket turrets are set to ignore huge asteroids, there's an unrevealed turret type for big asteroids
some FFF mentioned there's 4 tiers of asteroids and a turret for each one

they're already named: small, medium, big, huge

[small bear]

rockets do for large

it theres another weapon used, its for the huge not for the large

[pure siren]

that's not what you suggested there :)

[small bear]

yes. Gun turrets shoots both small and medium, large need rockets

[small bear]

I said they’re set to ignore huge for demonstration, but they still shoot the large asteroids

either way theres no need to have another weapon for large asteroids

[pure siren]

Found it:

We only see gun turrets on the platforms, are laser turrets ineffective against asteroids?
Each asteroid size has a different preferred weapon. Laser turrets are only efficient against the small asteroids, and the medium ones need at least a gun turret.
Since energy is quite scarce on the platform, it is usually a better strategy to just use gun turrets for both small and medium asteroids.
There are also going to be big and huge asteroids on some of the more dangerous routes, and these will need even heavier weapons, but more on that later.
https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-382

[pure siren]

but another weapon has been confirmed, see the above link

[small bear]

if so, its not for the large asteroid. Its for the huge

[pure siren]

That's the consensus

[small bear]

u said the 4th turret is for large tho, or did u mean for huge?

[pure siren]

no, I did not
what I was saying was, if rocket turrets can shoot huge asteroids (as per your suggestion), that would mean that the unrevealed turret then has to be for large asteroids

[small bear]

no???

[pure siren]

yes?

[small bear]

it’s possible rocket can shoot both large and huge, and we know for sure rockets can shoot large already

[pure siren]

yes, and if that is the case, the unrevealed turret can shoot small, medium and big

if not, and that's the consensus, rocket turret can shoot small, medium and big; and the unrevealed turret can shoot all sizes

[small bear]

why not also huge

[pure siren]

because each asteroid size has a preferred weapon

[small bear]

rocket can shoot huge doesn't mean they're the most efficient weapon for huge

[pure siren]

we have 2.5 data points that suggest it. out of 4 total

[small bear]

wat

[pure siren]

laser can only shoot small
gun can only shoot small and medium
rocket has not shoot huge. deliberately or bc of priority we don't know, so it can be argued whether it counts

[small bear]

I mean it is also possible that gun and laser can shoot large and huge, just that they have filter setting to ignore them, and they're also not efficient or deals no damage to large and huge

[pure siren]

why shoot at them when they deal no damage?

would be bad game design

[small bear]

could be small damge

instead of no damage

[pure siren]

medium ones need at least a gun turret

doesn't read like a bazillion laser turrets can deal with medium asteroids

[small bear]

it could also mean practically need. I wouldn't read too much into that

[pure siren]

ok, I'm running out of words now
If I can't convince you, that's ok. Let's just wait it out. Won't be longer than October :)

[small bear]

I won't be surprised if we need artillery for huge asteroids

[pure siren]

I'm hoping for Rail Guns.

[small bear]

I just think its possible that they don't babysit us by having hard-coded target filters

at least for me if would be more intuitive to let players discover that guns are not effective for large asteroids and actively adding target filters for them

[pure siren]

You'd then have to do that for every gun turret you place. That's bad game design.
Having one of those tutorial messages pop up is a better way to teach that concept imho.

[small bear]

u just copy paste

[pure siren]

People that can't/won't read have to find out the hard way.

[small bear]

and thats not a bad thing

its still better than people asking "I found bugs that my guns don't aim at large asteroids"

[rocky plover]

It's probably going to be like biters where the lower tiers can be used against the larger ones, they're just way less effective

[small bear]

imagine gun turrets with regular ammo just don't aim behemoth biters at all on default

[rocky plover]

I mean that's possible now

[small bear]

I mean hard coded

[rocky plover]

oh, probably not hard coded because in the situation where you want to shoot it it would be annoying

Just let targetting-by-ammo be an optimisation that seperates efficient players from noobs

[pure siren]

with enough gun damage upgrades, yellow ammo can kill behemoths just fine
FFF-382 doesn't read like damage upgrades would allow laser turrets to damage medium asteroids

alright, gotta go :)

[pale pumice]

@small bear I think all turrets will be able to shoot all asteroids, but it won't be efficient/smart to not use the right ones.

[tired fossil]

There was a statement that laser only damage the smallest and bullets the next size also, i dont think this is handled via resistance

[raven bridge]

They said it's only effective against the smaller ones, which indicates resistances

[tired fossil]

Next sentence, the medium ones need at least a gun turret sounds harder imho

Curious if they have something in mind to give cannon shells more usage, or just let it be like it is because tank will be longer in use

[desert lake]

Tank shells are just an artillery shell intermediate past a certain point

Sad

But understandable, because of the way they work mechanically

They don’t fly over walls

So a cannon turret wouldn’t be practical

And they require plastic to make, which would make them ridiculously complicated to make in space

[bold shard]

tsk tsk tsk soul burn, where is our lol

[raven bridge]

No idea...

[pure siren]

Effective, as in "using higher tier turrets is a waste of resources"

Laser turrets are only efficient against the small asteroids, and the medium ones need at least a gun turret
i.e. only the Laser turret is efficient against small asteroids; and: to damage medium ones, you need a gun turret or better

This feels awfully similar to the "exclusive to planet" discussion we had a couple weeks ago.

[raven bridge]

is only good against small, but other turrets can be good against small or medium

[candid pawn]

100% of people were wrong! point and laugh!

[vocal rock]

"a bunch of spider-mans pointing to each others.png"

[bold shard]

the mystery of bwuhuo shall remain for at least one more week

[candid pawn]

next week for sure

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-tomorrow-tomorrow-for-sure-eventually-uhhh-gif-1449581977852559422

[stable summit]

I had a feeling it wasn't a planet reveal when Klonan showed up in the friday facts channel right before the release

[pale pumice]

Klonan publlishes every FFF

Klonan saying E was on vacation on the other hand...

[raven bridge]

On which planet do you think E had their vacation?

[pure siren]

depends on the preference. Aquilo for winter, Bwuhuo for not-winter. Fulgora and Vulcanus for adventure tourism.
Definitely not Nauvis though, you don't do vacation at home.

[candid pawn]

i too would never go on vacation in my home planet

[rocky plover]

I personally was not wrong (I forgot to vote)

[arctic wasp]

wild idea: there are some enemies on Bacchus that need specalised ammo to kill?

or enemies that need to not be shot

[pale pumice]

I actually support your idea. My 'dependency' idea suggests that they will cover all material they need to before moving on to a thing.

If that is true, that explains why Bacchus couldn't be this week.

They would have had to also show turret stuff in that FFF and that would make it far too large.

[desert lake]

My prediction: Bacchus will have occasional flying enemies that only rocket turrets can shoot down, so you will have to make them prioritize the flying guys over the regular enemies

And said flying enemies will also fly over bodies of water to attack you, making for wacky and previously unseen wall placement

The exact same idea that everyone else had, I know 😭😭😭

[bold mirage]

wonder if these priority changes will also apply to spidertrons and PLDs

[pale pumice]

Well, it certainly won't be able to be set via circuit network at least

[bold mirage]

logistic groups maybe?

[pale pumice]

Turret filters don't support logistics groups though.

[vocal rock]

constant combniator + logistic group connected to turret will do the trick

[bold mirage]

Hm, that's true...

Would not be surprised if they ended up adding them though

[fresh grotto]

Crazy wild speculation time:
The main threat/obstacle on Bacchus will be meteor showers

This is the reason for turret priority - target meteors first, bugs second

The game also warns you when a meteor shower is incoming, and this is the reason for the interrupt interrupts feature - to ensure your trains are somewhere within your defenses.

Finally, bots can now be instructed to automatically pickup items scattered on the ground. This allows them to clean up from the meteor showers, recover lost resources if your trains do get destroyed (within your logistics network), and also gather fish or other organic matter.

Also, perhaps these asteroids are the origin of Biters and the pesky bugs also spawn upon destruction of the meteors

[fresh grotto]

And, while my brain is being creative, I was also keen on the idea of a "creeping vine" type of threat.

Perhaps it feeds on pollution and grows more rapidly towards the source. This would provide a consistent form of organic matter that could be harvested for Bacchus's theme of vegetation fuelled science.

However, this wouldn't really explain the interrupt interrupts feature. So I like my meteor shower idea more 😅

And now I'll stop wildly speculating.

[small bear]

interrupt in interrupt is never useful for trains to hide in emergency situations because they don’t work mid route. Interrupts only triggers when the train leaves a station, which is the same for int-in-int. They only work if u want to interrup a multi stop interrupt

[fresh grotto]

Well, it depends how long you get between warning and impact, I guess?
Like stop a train going to an outpost where you might only have minimal defensive capabilities?

I dunno, I did say it was a wild speculation 😄

[small bear]

u just add a leave condition to schedule to let the train stay. no need to use interrupt at all

every station should have the protection unless the attack is only affecting trains, and even so u should have the protection at all your stations

[fresh grotto]

I usually make sure all my outposts have minimal pollution so they don't become targets 🤷‍♂️

Well, I'm even more confused about the interrupt in interrupts feature

[small bear]

if its environmental hazard then pollution doesn’t matter

think about lighting

[fresh grotto]

True. But I meant in the base game.
If meteors were the main threat, you're probably right about defending your outposts - it would just mean extra logistics to keep your turrets stocked up

Stop ruining my wild speculation with your logic 😄

[small bear]

I’ll stop using my logic

Meteor shower as a mechanic is cool, but I never enjoyed it in SE

its just too random

[bold shard]

vulcanus and fulgora have unique but very convincing reasons to visit them first; what puzzles me is what will have that could make it just as powerful as planet #1

[small bear]

my guess is spidertrons, rocket turrets, better chemistry/military production

those would help u manage defense remotely easier

and unlocks more space routes

[bold shard]

I could see that. like what was said yesterday morning (from my timezone at least in the US), it doesn't have to be primarily production to make it valuable

if its some kind of biter homeworld or something to that degree, having a bunch of weapon tech would fit in perfectly

[fresh grotto]

Military and fuel certainly seem like worthwhile benefits

[small bear]

My current theory is the main benefit of is better multi planet management qol

and military prod is part of that

[bold shard]

I bet you're going to be right

[small bear]

u want to ensure multiple planets to survive the local threats and at the same time expand and manage the base remotely. Things that make this easier is surely attractive for the first planet to visit

tbh I may rush just because of spidertrons

[bold shard]

I could see it being a multiplayer fave as well if thats the case

[small bear]

these features looks -ish

[bold shard]

at a minimum, it seems to divert from the aesthetic of the other two

[fresh grotto]

If this planet is somewhat military-focused, what do you think the threat will be?

[bold shard]

more highly evolved biter race with added capabilities, ie:

[pure siren]

that's part of the life support for the fish brain inside the turret.

[small bear]

fish brain is part of spidertron not the turret

dev confirmed this

[pure siren]

but how are the rockets going to find their targets without GC? ;)

[strange jay]

maybe they're wire-guided

[pure siren]

yes, and for that they need a fish controlled guidance system in the turret

[small bear]

isn’t fish in spidertron not the turret

[desert lake]

I think V said so

[pale pumice]

I agree with this idea, Bacchus has a weaker machine frome what we can guess, so it will probably have the fun utility toys

[small bear]

imagine if the personal equipment upgrades are also on Bacchus (tho they may fit better with theme)

and if we assume all the T3 modules are on the first three planets, we may have on , on , on

who said one planet can’t have two T3 modules

is also a quite good combination for space platform

[pale pumice]

I find speed being there a bit likely because we know it takes this mystery ingredient.

That said, do we see that in either inventory zone?!

For some reason this seems clearer to me now

I don't see bluranium here at all, so maybe it is an aquilo thing

but tbh we don't see the end of bacchus either - a lot is cut off

There are three white-rock pairs

and then another 3 rock recipe after

we know that

Hmmm. How do we know this is Bacchus?

[small bear]

I wonder if they will simplify artillery recipe to require instead of radar, if we will need them for huge asteroids

[pale pumice]

It could be another 'kind' of item on Fulgora.

I mean, if not, Bacchus has a TON of new items.

[small bear]

something on space platform lategame must need copper

so I’m guessing Artillery shell

cannon shell don’t need copper afaik

[tired fossil]

Arty makes only half sense in space balistic gravity related weapon... not sure... would expect something with a more direct flight path

[small bear]

technically u can have artillery angle adjusted to horizontal

or maybe cannon turret

but then cannon shells don’t need copper, will they change recipes for that?

[tired fossil]

Maybe missiles need copper, statement was just no green circuits because of a lot of copper, maybe just copper in smaller ratio

[small bear]

we saw rockets need no copper in the music fff

[tired fossil]

Ahh good point

Piercing rounds would require a lot of copper

[small bear]

yeah piercing ammo

but I wonder if we will ever need those

maybe theres a damage type overhaul

which makes peircing ammo much more favorable over the yellow ammo

or even let us use uranium ammo

[tired fossil]

Missiles are just iron plate and something out of sulfur and black bricks (carbon?)

[small bear]

carbon+water+sulfur -> coal
coal+sulfur+water -> explosives
explosive + iron plate -> rocket

[raven bridge]

So explosives are just a carbon soup with a lot of sulfur in it

[tired fossil]

Looks quite mighty the platform in the music fff

[halcyon bolt]

what is this image from

[pale pumice]

The treasure trove

Which imported it from this FFF: https://factorio.com/blog/post/fff-399

[topaz wing]

That one blurry image is pretty much the biggest recipe leak so far

[raven bridge]

Yeah... and it was very much unintended that time.

[stable summit]

Did they remove it from that fff? I can't find it

Oh nevermind, it's just very subtle

[candid pawn]

ive got it figured out: so last week's FFF was supposed to be about rocket turrets, but the beacon leaks forced them to make it about beacons instead

and since the FFF depends on the rocket turret FFF, that pushed the FFF back by a week

this way, the numberology is saved and the FFF will be next week

[raven bridge]

We believe!

Lisan Al-Bwuhuo!

[candid pawn]

hehe

[rocky plover]

I predict next week will be combat rebalance/rework

[raven bridge]

No bwuhuo?

[half mountain]

bwuhuo is dead, long live bwuhuo!

[tired fossil]

🥳

I really hope on some details on bwuhuo/baccus

[vocal rock]

combat on bwuhuo sounds great for FFF

[small bear]

I hope we have circuit connections to solar panels to read current solar strength

[raven bridge]

Interesting. That would be nice

[small bear]

since they probably already added reading temperature from nuclear core, I think it’s likely they also add reading daylight from solar

I wonder will they even implement power priorities

maybe smarter power switch filtering power source?

[raven bridge]

It might be fuel progress rather than temperature, or both

Didn't we see ammo reading from turrets? So we may get input/output inventory

[small bear]

tbh reading inventory is not that useful without smart circuits

for ammo u can read input belts or buffers

it would be more useful if u can read turret target

[tired fossil]

Target in range would be quite helpful

At least in combination of a roboport "deactivate repairs"

[raven bridge]

This is important

[primal nacelle]

I would love the ability to prevent bots from flying to their deaths all the time

[heavy adder]

Watch the "smart" bots still so it

[bold shard]

this feels like a bacchus kind of week

[raven bridge]

Prediction: Technical FFF. next week.

Prove me wrong, Wube

[bitter prawn]

Prediction: Technical FFF. Even more technical followup next week.

[lilac arrow]

Prediction: Space Age is cancelled. Factorio Battle Pass announced instead.

[quasi crest]

What about biter dating sim?

[lilac arrow]

It's a gamemode you unlock at level 100 of the BP

[raven bridge]

Also you need to connect PSN to play it

[topaz wing]

I predict only technical fff's for the next 3 months

I hope they don't read this and try to subvert my expectations!

[raven bridge]

It only works if you make it seems legit

[half mountain]

Too soon

[umbral lynx]

Prediction: Factorio becomes an epic games exclusive and is ported to unreal engine

[solemn cosmos]

What kind of FFF do you think we will have?
💻 = technical
= quality of life
= new planet showcase
🤯 = new machine

[short patio]

I hope they ramp up releasing new info about SA stuff. The past 2 updates have been good for that, but there's only so much time left and we still have so much left uncovered in the expansion itself

Optimistically, it's an August release, which is 3 1/2 months away, or about 14 FFFs

[raven bridge]

(I think it will be as planet, but put in technical)

[maiden magnet]

fluid optimizations

[bitter prawn]

they introduce non-Newtonian resources, which can act as both items and fluids

[raven bridge]

As usual, my hope is for more systems

Pretty crafting machines are nice, but not "game changing"

[candid pawn]

why?

both why you think it will be a planet, and why you put in technical

[near tree]

For centralization purposes, we've decided to move this questions thread to https://discord.com/channels/139677590393716737/1240418991386787920 . Happy speculating!