FFF Speculations

[pure siren]

that doesn't sound like not-yet-implemented behaviour :/

[pale pumice]

I suppose fair

I wouldn't put it past them to make a cinematic shot like that

but I am no longer convinced by the minimum range idea... mostly because of there being other turrets

[small bear]

Actually, a even closer look turns out that its always
Medium -> 3 small -> 6 chunks

this one is actually 3 small, just one is being shooted

and here is 6 fragments with 2 overlapping

the asteriod achters prooved it

so the one we see most often is medium

and the rocket probably deal with big

not huge

for huge asteriods we need heavier weapons

probably artillery

in the music fff there was 3 medium asteroids together, probably split from a big asteroid

the huge asteroid will probably split into 3-4 big asteriods

from the shape its probably 4

this looks too big for a big asteriod

[pure siren]

imagine the size of huge if that were big

[small bear]

side by side comparison: huge asteroid vs 3x medium asteroids (1 big asteriod)

now I'm very confident about asteroid sizes

laser for small only
gun turrets for medium and small
rocket turrets for large
(perhaps) artillery for huge

theres no need to introduce a new heavy weapon

[pale pumice]

I find it unlikely it will be artillery

[small bear]

why tho

[pale pumice]

they're angled upward

[pure siren]

I'd like tank shells to have more use, but that's me wish thinking

[pale pumice]

and it just doesn't make a lot of sense to me tbh

[small bear]

the huge asteroid is also above the platform?

[pale pumice]

It's more in front of it

[pure siren]

it's above and below and inside the platform

or "instead of the platform"

[small bear]

I think the artillery can adjust the angle

[pale pumice]

that would be a ton of sprites

[pure siren]

yeah, artillery in space turns into a direct fire weapon due to the absence of gravity
that's not a big deal

[pale pumice]

there's already an arty sprite from every turning angle

[pure siren]

rocket turret is no a 1:1 copy of a spidertron head either

[pale pumice]

of course, but that is a new thing

they would have to make a different graphics for the artillery entirely

I just don't find it likely personally, I can be wrong here, just not feeling it.

[small bear]

this doesn't look too off

[pale pumice]

It's possible, I just think it will be something else

[small bear]

letting artillery having different sprites in space is still less work than making a new turret type

[pale pumice]

also, do gun turrets look particularly bad at hitting large asteroids to you?

they don't really seem that way to me..

[pure siren]

pretty sure the can only hit small and medium

[pale pumice]

@small bear

[pale pumice]

this is false, no?

[small bear]

they said big and huge both need heavier weapons

[pale pumice]

wow that is way bigger than I expected

ahem Objection!

[small bear]

that one was wrong

[pale pumice]

so what do we really see there?

[pale pumice]

i see

do we see a rocket hit a big?

[small bear]

there were some overlapping and aiming order

[small bear]

I didn't see any

but there were some suspicious 3 x medium asteroid groups

[pale pumice]

did rockets fly that way first?

[small bear]

yup

[pale pumice]

I'll call that reasonably confirmed

some larger weapon is needed

do we know that artillery is unlocked on another planet

that was one of the things right?

[small bear]

we know that artillery is not on Nauvis

I think the difficult part of artillery on space platform will be the shell production

so its okay if we unlock artillery early

[pale pumice]

technically it's makable with what we have

[pure siren]

Yeah, but the crafting time is insane.

[pale pumice]

space coal liqufaction is weird lol

[small bear]

imagine coal liquefaction on space platform

we probably need tech

[pale pumice]

we know either carbon -> coal, or explosives recipe changed

[small bear]

yup

[pale pumice]

rocket recipe changed is not possible because we already know new rocket recipe

[small bear]

I say its probably carbon -> coal

[pale pumice]

there.. was a chemplant that was in the right position to do that

so I think so

I mean, what else would that chemplant be putting into an explosives crafter lol

[pale pumice]

kinda cut and dry imo

clean build too. props to @proper ember

[small bear]

my guess is carbon + water = coal

[pale pumice]

It's pretty slick

[small bear]

sulfur just happens on the same belt

[pale pumice]

yeah I am reasonably sure of that too

[small bear]

dose that make sense tho

turn carbon into coal?

[pale pumice]

enough

[small bear]

I wonder if there will be carbon liquefaction

[pale pumice]

i mean there's already coal liqui

carbon to oil is more likely imo

[small bear]

well if its indeed carbon->coal, then we already have carbon->coal->oil route

[pale pumice]

i am 99% certain it is water+carbon-> coal

maybe +sulfur

[proper ember]

water + carbon + sulfur -> coal

[small bear]

so the sulfur was needed

wat

[pale pumice]

I mean that kinda makes sense too

[proper ember]

sulfur is obtained from assteroids

[small bear]

yeah I guess

[pale pumice]

coal is just carbon with junk in it

feels weird to add the junk :P

Thanks for the clarification V

[proper ember]

yw

[uncut moon]

Junk in the trunk since they're assteroids

[pale pumice]

(also as I said above, slick setup for the space platform explosives, it's a nice build)

[proper ember]

thanks yeah it's pretty good

[small bear]

yeah its very neat

now I have this in my powerpoint

[pale pumice]

you have a powerpoint?

I wanted to store all of the FFF speculation/ideas but haven't felt like it

[pale pumice]

it looks like v is making a tutorial here

[small bear]

I started recording these recently

[pale pumice]

this gives me two different vibes

one of them is court evidence

it looks like you're about to sue wube for all they're worth

[small bear]

lmao

[pale pumice]

and then the other is this

it's a pretty even mix of the two too.

[small bear]

lol

[pale pumice]

Can I have access to it somehow?

[small bear]

pretty sure I'm in the second context

[pale pumice]

you're in both

it's well-maintained evidence

but it's also.. well maintained 'evidence'

[proper ember]

well it won't be worth much after people realize the expansion just a hoax

[pale pumice]

one second, let me get a post of mine here...

[small bear]

the earlier slides are quite janky and not really for evidence tho

[pale pumice]

#friday-facts message

[desert lake]

Why was there ever any doubt about the coal recipe using sulfur 😭😭😭

That belt doesn't go anywhere after those chemplants, there is absolutely no reason for there to be sulfur on it unless the recipe used sulfur

So far I've seen like 5 people doubt it for some reason

[pale pumice]

because the belt is carrying carbon too

and that same belt also goes to explosives

[desert lake]

Not that same belt

They're both split off of one belt

And one side of the splitter sideloads its sulfur half onto an underground, making the sulfur-only half belt that gets fed to the explosive labs

[pale pumice]

I suppose if they needed one there one there, they would have just used filter

[desert lake]

Exactly, that's the obvious conclusion

[small bear]

ah yeah

[proper ember]

gg

[candid pawn]

no re

[gilded mica]

Are we still missing some assemblers?

The foundry can do wire and gears. The electroplant can seemingly do all circuits

Something to craft science packs?

[pale pumice]

foundry does vulcanus science

emp does fulgora science

[gilded mica]

This would imply the other planets' science packs are also crafted propietary.

But the devs always want multi purpose. So what else would they craft?

[primal nacelle]

boosted chemistry building is a good guess, I'd say. In one way or another

[gilded mica]

Ahh, I forgot about that

[pale pumice]

Thing is, there are two more machines..

[gilded mica]

Well I think we can be sure that the chem plant will end up in

Regarding the last planet; I don't think we'll get a crafter per se.

Maybe some new mechanic to bring the 3 new planets together

[raven bridge]

2 more crafting machines

Every planet has 2-3 new other buildings

[gilded mica]

volcanus: foundry, miner
fulgaro: recycler, emp, lightning collector?

[raven bridge]

Lightning collector in 2 versions

[small bear]

tbh the special machine on the last planet doesn’t even need to have the 50% built-in prod, or any boosts to the existing production lines

[pure siren]

Do we have any good guesses what it might be?

[small bear]

no idea

[candid pawn]

giant laser that you can put on your space platform that's needed to defeat the final boss ( )

[pure siren]

Can I aim it at the ground to make lava lakes?

[candid pawn]

yes, absolutely

[pure siren]

nice, gonna turn every planet into Vulcanus

[candid pawn]

but if you use it too much, the planet is weakened and eventually breaks apart into a huge astroid field (which you can use space platforms to harvest)

[gilded mica]

I thought you can only craft a single variant and it's not possible to pickup the existing ones

[pure siren]

We can't pick up the existing ones, but we'll unlock a better version later.

[raven bridge]

First is protection and some power, second is more protection and a lot more power

[gilded mica]

huh, neat

still wouldn't classify as two new buildings in the same way as wooden and copper power poles

[void sapphire]

Copper power poles?

[sweet wind]

There's at least two new crafting entities that haven't been revealed, only teased.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/603392474458882065/1230704720214229022/image.png?ex=6627c3d6&is=66267256&hm=3eed639d8ef59f6f4de67b2b343496361528ff02ee2324e6d7b19a8aab2a9727&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=125&height=457

[pale pumice]

They do have a bit of a point though.

We haven't seen anything Fulgora really gives us besides it's machine.

Vulcanus has the big miner

But we know very little about what those fancy new sciences give us tbh

Some of it is old goodies, sure, but I bet we don't know a good little bit of stuff...

[sweet wind]

I'm pretty sure Soulburn was talking about these when they mentioned two crafting machines

[pale pumice]

They were

[sweet wind]

but 2-3 other buildings per planet

like the big mining drill and lightning collectors

[desert lake]

It also gives us the recycler, and at least one T3 module, but possibly all of them. It's also highly likely that on Fulgora you can research epic quality

I also predict that it's the planet that gives us the portable fusion reactor, and likely at least one more MKII armor module

And we know of the existence of "various tesla items" that are crafted in the EMP, whatever those may be

[primal nacelle]

Have they said that what normally would require only Nauvis to unlock, would in SA require off-Nauvis stuff as well?

[desert lake]

Yes, some things

Examples include all T3 modules, artillery, cliff explosives, spidertron, and "some personal equipment upgrades" iirc

T2 modules, kovarex process and nukes are also locked to space science, AKA Nauvis orbit

[primal nacelle]

The way I understood it was that there will be two tiers of cliff explosived. The one you get at Nauvis and then one that can handle Vulcanus environment later

[sweet wind]

There is no cliff explosives on nauvis

[raven bridge]

The recycler is probably worth going to for

Actually, there's something even more important we get from .... the science pack.

[pure siren]

Wasn't it also multiple variants of Landfill?

[raven bridge]

So yea I'll probably go to that planet at some time

[sweet wind]

Water landfill, and everything else landfill most likely

[pure siren]

It was hinted that platform landfill comes in flavours iirc.

[sweet wind]

Was it? I wouldn't expect so

[unborn lintel]

Space platform is technically landfill

[pale pumice]

spacefill

[unborn lintel]

Idk what other landfill they could possibly add

[sweet wind]

It's space platform, not landfill

[unborn lintel]

Maybe some landfill for the oil quicksand on fulgora, or something not revealed yet

[desert lake]

"Foundation" is the name of the endgame landfill that can cover any surface, including lava and oil ocean

And whatever else shows up later

[sweet wind]

Landfill, foundation and space platform

[desert lake]

Right

[unborn lintel]

Was that confirmed?

[desert lake]

Yes

[unborn lintel]

Cool

[pure siren]

Do you know which FFF it was mentioned in?

[unborn lintel]

How much you think they won't reveal until release, like spidertron for 1.1?

[pure siren]

the only mention I could find was FFF-404

[desert lake]

I think the specific details of foundation, including its name, were revealed in reddit comments and/or discord messages here. But both vulcanus and trash to treasure allude to it

They both say something along the lines of "you can't landfill this stuff, until much later in the game"

[sweet wind]

FFF404 called it "space platform foundation"
I'm pretty sure that "foundation" us just what people started calling super-landfill

But also it's in and music videos in FFF406, just not named

[unborn lintel]

I'ma call it pocket sand

[pure siren]

I distinctely remember it being called platform foundation, and that only pops up in FFF-404

[sweet wind]

space platform foundation could be implied

is likely, well it's ambiguous

I'd probably take it as being called platform foundation too

[pure siren]

no space

hey, don't edit your message while I'm not looking!

[sweet wind]

Yeah I realised it didn't read how I meant it

[desert lake]

Aha, I found it

("here" refers to Fulgora, this is in the trash to treasure reddit post)

[sweet wind]

It looks neat though

"Foundation" + "Space platform" = "Foundation platform"

[pure siren]

oh, "only buildable on a specific planet" doesn't mean planet specific, it means the crafting is planet exclusive

[desert lake]

Platform that transports foundation from Aquilo to other planets: : "the foundation platform"

[sweet wind]

Placeable tiles like concrete, landfill, platform foundation, etc.
#1177597309572366396 message

[desert lake]

No no I was just joking

[quasi crest]

I predict FFF #411 will be military/enemies

[small bear]

I wonder if will have sand beaches

also will there be mixed iron/copper/stone ore patch

since Foundries so far didn’t show a special recipe for the special resources, it is likely that we can also do calcite smelting for iron and copper on

for theres foundry holmium plate recipe

because there’s no iron and copper ore smelting there (ignore iron from concrete recycling)

[raven bridge]

We saw several recipes with a new resource in the blurred background image

[small bear]

is it in the foundry row?

[raven bridge]

Not that I remember

[small bear]

foundry row… take me home….

[solemn cosmos]

to the place..... I belong!

[hasty rapids]

Planet nauvis

[void sapphire]

mountain lava

[uncut moon]

New soundtrack for Vulcanus

[bold shard]

+1 for new SA content, its been a while

[uncut moon]

The music was new SA content

[bold shard]

new mechanics, entities, tech, items, etc

[raven bridge]

New planet is expected this or next week

[hasty rapids]

Next one is ui. Full confidence.

[pale pumice]

These are the remaining FFFs that we are reasonably sure will exist:

• Vulcanus 3
• Fulgora 3
• Space Platform 3
• Bacchus 1
• Bacchus 2
• Bacchus 3
• Aquilo 1
• Aquilo 2
• Aquilo 3

We can actually start using this knowledge to calculate the FFF release date roughly.

Every time they release an FFF that isn't from this list, it is basically a delay from the 'earliest possible release' - which is in 9 weeks.

22 weeks until october, so we have a relatively narrow range now.

[half mountain]

Spaceplatform 3 after that beast of a platform we saw would be great.

[umbral lynx]

how do we know there will be a third FFF about each planet?

[pure siren]

iirc enemy FFF has been confirmed. That it'll be one per planet is the speculation bit on our side

[small bear]

another thing I wonder is if we will have a long gap between Bacchus 2 and Aquilo 1, like all the other planets pt. 1-2 did

given that it’s likely they only give any part 3 after Aquilo part 2

however I do expect we get an fff about space routes before the Aquilo fff

so space platform may even have a part 4

now I’m predicting a future fff with a ‘planet connection’ icon in the thumbnail

And at the end: “As always, let your thoughts connect with us at the usual places.”

[pale pumice]

source for this one? this increases our spculation ability. Every FFF we know about narrows down the timeframe.

[small bear]

the thing is if there will be enemy fff we don’t know if those fff and the planet part 3 fff will be the same fff

[pale pumice]

that is true!

In fact, '3' is probably misleading

Vulcanus 1 and Fulgora 1 were both Earendel-style introductions.

Both of the #2 were main mechanics

It is possible that #3 has a theme, and this theme is enemy targets/considerations

enemies on vulcanus, whatever that thing is on fulgora...

Bacchus has to have enemies right, probably imo

Aquilo is very unclear

[small bear]

I think we will need to know what techs from the first three planets help/lead to Aquilo travel before they reveal Aquilo

[pale pumice]

Although it is a bit problematic ...

We know that 'most' planets have 'military targets'

if the white box is a military target on Fulgora, and the brain is on bacchus - there is nothing on aquilo?

doesn't seem so right idk

[small bear]

no so surprised if Aquilo has severe environmental challenges

after all its a dead cold planet faraway from sun

[pale pumice]

You wouldn't be surprised by no enemies on Aquilo?

[small bear]

yup

I mean I’m not too into the concept of ‘enemies’ unless they make the game much more interesting

so far they seem to shown interesting enough mechanics that makes SA good enough even without new enemies

[pale pumice]

I suppose

personally I'm not against a barren aquilo

I have simmilar thoughts as you

[small bear]

enemies can act as a motivation to climb the tech tree and increase your production, and ask u to solve more logistics puzzles, but to do these we don’t necessarily need enemies

enemies could also act as resistance to your expansion

so it’s possible that we have defensive enemies on Fulgora protecting resources

but I don’t expect we will have to do perimeter defense like on Nauvis on every planets

it can get repetitive quickly

[primal nacelle]

Fulgora feels like either barren, or the enemies come from the oil sand. Probably only as a protest to pumping it. In order to make a cost to pumping the free oil

[pale pumice]

Did you forget the white boxes?

[primal nacelle]

Yes I did. I also did not know about Earendels message

[solemn cosmos]

i wonder why it would be a target?

[pale pumice]

The extremely rich scrap deposit beneath is should serve as a decent motivator

[solemn cosmos]

do you think we will need to shoot it until it falls or when we shoot at it things inside of it will fight back?

[raven bridge]

Robotic defences

[pale pumice]

Literally no idea.

[solemn cosmos]

only time will tell

[vital jacinth]

Vulcanus was 386/387, Fulgora 398/399, tomorrow is 408, a planet FFF is likely

[raven bridge]

409 is more likely a planet

[pale pumice]

Why do you feel that way?

[raven bridge]

398 - 386 = 12.
398 + 12 = 410.

[primal nacelle]

I would have estimated that 410/411 about is potentially a planet FFF. Since the difference between Vulcanus and Fulgora was 12. Then of course, that is only a single measured timespan. Pretty error prone. So I don't expect the FFF schedule they have is necessarily that set in stone. Perhaps devs wish to surprise us or keep us on our toes?

[small bear]

I’m not expecting exactly the same pace tho. The closer we are to the release the more confident they are to give the big fffs

[pale pumice]

Yeah, dependency order

In fact it's a bit weird we haven't seen Bacchus yet.. given the amount of stuff relative to time

[raven bridge]

We might get Aquilo first

[pale pumice]

Honestly that sounds like the kind of thing they'd do to fuck with us

"What's" and "Bacchus" are their favorite words

[raven bridge]

They already gave us the name Aquilo

And showed the green building as 5th

[pale pumice]

My bets are still on Bacchus 1 and 2 first.

[final dove]

they could always drop a bomb of an fff on us that isn't a planet too

[raven bridge]

Quality 2

[pale pumice]

Quality 2 unfortunately implies quality 3 with the way things are going

[final dove]

Quality 3: Military targets 😨

[pale pumice]

pluuusss

[final dove]

the reveal is that there was no reveal. What a controversy!

[small bear]

space map being static, no orbital mechanics, not sure if this one will be controversial

or high bot power consumption/occasional event to disable bots on a planet

[pale pumice]

that one would admittedly make me 🙄

[small bear]

or more planet exclusive recipes

[pale pumice]

this was before those were mentioned

[small bear]

Nauvis science being Nauvis exclusive

[pale pumice]

I'd prefer that

[final dove]

final stage of biter evolution unlocks biter rockets to launch themselves into your space platforms :P

[small bear]

remove map settings for cliffs and enemies

pump jack resources become finite

[pale pumice]

honestly how is that different than an asteroid lol

[small bear]

if anything controversial, it’s probably adding some interesting puzzles that doesn’t fit some players play style

for example no bot and no chest on platform

[final dove]

attack the middle ;)

[final dove]

that seems likely

[small bear]

it’s possible that on the last planet bots won’t be as useful

logi bots*

for example occasionally theres blizzard and temporary freeze all bots with their cargo until the end of the storm

and bots may also generally consume more power

we’ve seen bot consumption multiplier in the factoriopedia

if theres any planet that makes bots harder to use its probably Aquilo

[final dove]

space platform obviously fits that bill. not that they couldn't do both

[raven bridge]

Speculation: Green building on is a lightning generator. It increases lightning on the planet it is placed on.

[candid pawn]

that would be cool

[bold mirage]

It would be nice if they added a way to read the more "abstract" parts of the game and into the circuit network

stuff like the production tab, or bonuses

[gilded mica]

:doubt:

I'll stick to the theory of each building for each planet. Because they included nuclear for nauvis

[gilded mica]

random machine attrition, bot attrition?

Curious if they'll return resources from biters aka biter drops.

[half mountain]

Plz no

[solemn cosmos]

50% think new planet! i hope we get to see a new one too lol

[desert lake]

I think we are nearing a new planet fff

But I’m not sure we’re quite near enough yet

I think Bacchus will come two weeks from now

[grave crag]

🤔

I wote for the mod portal

[raven bridge]

Well we had a small mod portal update, but I don't think it'll be a whole FFF

[grave crag]

Why not

Don't mess with my guessance

Let me fail cleanly

[bold shard]

I def think we'll have one, but it'll be a 2.1 kind of FFF

good feeling for tomorrow's

[fresh grotto]

Next FFF is fluid optimization... 😅

[sweet wind]

So do we all dream 🙏

[raven bridge]

Do we expect there to be something huge ( or level of huge) before the release?

[candid pawn]

personally no

[desert lake]

I mean if it was that level of huge it would be its own mod

Ands so far they’ve been pretty clear about there being three mods in the expansion

They also revealed those two very early on, so if there was anything else of that type they most likely would’ve shown it by now

[sweet wind]

I'm surprised that is considered as huge as personally. I'd put interrupts at the same level as personally.

[desert lake]

I mean it doesn’t add new items, I think that almost automatically demotes it to QoL status

[sweet wind]

It fundamentally changes the way you can use trains though. I don't think you can say the same for other 'QoL' features

Most QoL feature make doing something you could already do easier/more seamless

Instead of needing multiple blueprints or manually adjusting them after placement, you can use parameterised blueprints.
Instead of needing multiple staging blueprints to place on landfill you can use super force building.
etc.

[raven bridge]

It obsoletes all current rail BPs (I include the new new rails with elevated rails as one)

[sweet wind]

I would be very impressed if we got another feature like or though

[strange jay]

was originally just part of Space age, but I really wanted to play with it in a 'vanilla' playthrough so I petitioned the court to allow it as a separate mod

[sweet wind]

Obsoleting all current rail BPs definitely affects people who have already played, but it doesn't fundamentally change how you interact with rail itself. can be argued to do that though.

[raven bridge]

That was a very smart move for modded players

So thanks for that

[sweet wind]

May you receive endless praise for pushing the idea 🙏

[strange jay]

It was my ideas all the way down

[sweet wind]

Okay, not that much praise

[raven bridge]

Klonan is known for "what if something fundamental was different" ideas

[strange jay]

Originally Space age wasn't even a mod

[raven bridge]

Woah

[sweet wind]

Interesting, It seems so obvious in hindsight I guess I never thought about that

[strange jay]

but the practicalities of keeping most people on 1.1 while people who buy the expansion get 2.0 was just too infeasible

[sweet wind]

Yeah I guess it ended up being easier in many ways, don't need to have multiple versions of the game installed either if you don't want to play with space age, and you don't need to play without all the QoL stuff when doing so either.

[fresh grotto]

I'm excited for all the new players that 2.0 will hopefully bring
But I'm also impatiently waiting for it to drop because it made me lose interest in 1.1

[sweet wind]

I still have much interest, but the QoL stuff I now know I don't have makes it tough.

[pale pumice]

@strange jay Any FFF hints or is it not time enough for those yet?

[strange jay]

wrong channel for that

[pale pumice]

I suppose technically it's not speculation if you say it

(I thought this was #friday-facts though, my bad)

[pale pumice]

So far, no Earendel has been spotted.

[raven bridge]

I expect a new planet next week

[desert lake]

I expect it two weeks from now

But yeah we are probably getting close

[pale pumice]

"What's bacchus" - JG

[small bear]

[pale pumice]

yes but no himself

gonna be for real there's no way raiguard would sleep through Bacchus FFF

[quasi crest]

whats bacchus?

[pale pumice]

That's the fun thing - I'm not sure yet.

[little seal]

I'll do you better: how is bacchus?

Because nobody asked how is bacchus🥲

[bold mirage]

he's here!!!

[pale pumice]

Well maybe if we could get to know them first!

[bold mirage]

Did not expect new nuclear stuff for SA

[quasi crest]

D-T fuel?

[bold mirage]

And apparently going for quality on fuel is worthwhile

[small bear]

its Nauvis production

[bold mirage]

So they are doing asteroid stuff on nauvis?

Unless the thing above isnt an asteroid

[small bear]

doesn’t look like asteroid

[pale pumice]

that could be one of the bacchus things

[desert lake]

Actually yeah it really could

The three things that make white blobs

One handcraftable, one green/teal, and one orange

[bold mirage]

It is very similar to the other asteroid chunks in the space platform production graph

Doesnt really make sense since crushers only work in zero gravity

[raven bridge]

Also those are on

[small bear]

yup

[raven bridge]

Blue fuel and some asteroid looking chunk

[small bear]

production on Nauvis

[raven bridge]

FWIW I did expect a production update some day

[small bear]

u mean statistics

[bold mirage]

I hope the devs add a way to read statistics and use them in the circuit network

[raven bridge]

yea production screen updates 🙂

[raven bridge]

We knew "per planet" is coming, but I expected it to let us choose. This one is good or even better, leaving the "select a planet" to be the standard remote view selector

[raven bridge]

Carbon fiber

[bold mirage]

Blankie

[solemn cosmos]

edit: they changed time of blog post back to 7 😭

[small bear]

these are only consumed, but no evidence showing they’re being produced on Nauvis

so it could be these high quality products imported from other planets

[solemn cosmos]

it was Technical+quality of life!

[bold shard]

good. I bet its going to be a higher J value for

[bold mirage]

if we are lucky gets an acceleration boost as well

[small bear]

surely its worthwhile if for space platform

[raven bridge]

Or bluranium are just a placeholder for some non-fuel intermediate, like how tungsten carbide looks like dark concrete

[small bear]

coral stone?

[bold shard]

they had a bunch of choices for a placeholder image, choosing to be something else entirely would be unusual

[raven bridge]

This is black

[small bear]

we also have blue

[bold shard]

yeah... I just don't know what else the fuel cell could be, aside from a fuel cell lol. even if its an intermediate for some kind of new fuel, the silver lining here is it still shows has some kind of value in fuel

[bold mirage]

they chose to show the bluranium for a reason, it wouldn't make sense to do it if it was unrelated to fuel

[raven bridge]

Or we still don't have value to fuels, and indicating it's not a fuel

Still, it's an interesting find

BTW I calculated a lightning strike to be around 160MJ, administered over a second

[bold mirage]

nice

about a minute and a half of a boiler right?

[raven bridge]

yea

[bold mirage]

not too bad, assuming multiple lightning strikes occurr per island and multiple rods per island

once I get foundation i'll be making a huge grid of them on the oil ocean

[raven bridge]

Also will help in some way

[bold shard]

seems like a very helpful thing to have early on as you're growing your collector footprint. ~160MJ is nice but depending on the day/night cycle length and frequency of lightning strikes in an area, that can be drained pretty fast

[raven bridge]

Also, I think it's the big collectors, not the initial rods

[bold mirage]

with an EM plant, not using eff1s is just silly

[bold shard]

not saying anything new here but its def a place where quality will shine as well

[candid pawn]

everyone point and laugh at the people who voted planet

[hasty rapids]

#1177597309572366396 message

[pale pumice]

Planet is a ressonable guess for the next few weeks

[bold shard]

https://www.factorio.com/blog/ just looking at the first page, if there is any kind of rhythm, it looks like something interesting is going to happen soon

the last pure SA planet-stuff FFF was 2/23, over 2 months ago

[strange jay]

Rhythm has your two hips moving

[desert lake]

The only pattern I’m considering is there being 10 fffs between vulcanus and fulgora

And this was the 9th fff since fulgora

[pale pumice]

I think a better approach is to consider the remaining FFFs, and the remaining content we know of

betting 'new planet' every week is a good strategy because there's a lot of planet stuff to cover

and .. relatively little time

[small bear]

tbh statistics qol was one of the candidates in the fff predictions

at least it supposed to be on the list

[fresh grotto]

Water planet?
And obviously fluid optimization along with it... Right?

[small bear]

water planet doesn’t necessarily mean fluid optimization

we expected fluid rework because 2.0

not because of potential water planet

[fresh grotto]

Yeah, I'm just using any excuse to bring up fluid optimization again

[small bear]

u don’t need the excuse

[fresh grotto]

Still hoping that they add separate "pressurized" pipes - if they can't find a good way to optimise the existing system.

One-way pipe system that can then reuse the belt logic (but single lane). Pipes coming in would work like sideloading, and pipes going out would work like splitters.

And it could be done under the guise of also giving these new pipes a higher throughput - which would act as an incentive for people who don't care about UPS 😄

[tall spindle]

yo when are they talk about enemies and wepons?

feels like the one big thing the have avoided since SA was announced

[late venture]

[pale pumice]

That’s not actually true for FFF. The more correct answer is more like ‘when or after it’s done’ some stuff they show is has been down for months. It’s very possible enemies are done but they’re playing their cards close to their chest.

[gilded mica]

While the music is still work in progress. Some tracks need to be recorded, mixed...

[rocky plover]

Vacuum tube with a barrel railgun.

Simply put your fluid in a barrel, and then use a railgun to shoot your barrel down a vacuum tube at relativistic velocity. Remove fluid from barrel at the other end.

This is probably the dumbest idea I've ever had

[half mountain]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pneumatic_tube_mail_in_New_York_City

[proper ember]

I mean, barrelling oxidizer looks way too similar to water, so you need different canisters

[pale pumice]

What is this in response to?

[fresh grotto]

This?
I have no idea

[small bear]

with the new early game trigger techs and minir tech tree rearrange, I wonder if there will be new new tutorial campaigns

[keen scaffold]

Day 563 of predicting the biter dating simulator

[sweet wind]

Prediction: Diminishing beacon rework is a 2.0 change not a Space Age change

[bold shard]

agreed

[desert lake]

I would be surprised if it was

[sweet wind]

Mainly because every change they've made to an existing [thing] is making it to the base game (rocket control unit, new rails, radar, all the UI changes, combinators, etc.)

[raven bridge]

Agreed, though it does mean large beacons setups are nerfed in 2.0 compared to 1.1

[sweet wind]

I could potentially see the values being different? We'll need to wait for the details for that though.

[pale pumice]

Yeah. That is perhaps a bummer, but I will be playing space age anyways.

[sweet wind]

If my understanding is correct with new beacons being 2x better, but recieving sqrt(beacon count) diminishing returns then any setup with more than 4 beacons will be nerfed compared to 1.1

That's actually a pretty big deal

[pale pumice]

Realistically, they're not '2x' better

[raven bridge]

1-3 got buffed. 5-16 got nerfed. 4 stays the same.

[pale pumice]

sqrt(1) just happens to be 1

and 1 just happens to be 2x 0.5

It follows 1/sqrt(x) perfectly

[raven bridge]

1 is twice as strong at 1.1

[pale pumice]

yeah, that is true

just wanted to make it clear that the 2x value is just coming from the new values

It's not something like 2 * sqrt_falloff(x)

[raven bridge]

2 are 1.41x stronger

[pale pumice]

are they?

[raven bridge]

ah no

[pale pumice]

No that looks right still, just how the numbers shake out

[raven bridge]

And then 3 is 15% stronger

[pale pumice]

3 of them is 15% yeah

and 4 is the same

strength compared to 1.1

[raven bridge]

ye

[pale pumice]

hmm that is a bad scale

[sweet wind]

140 beacons on one machine

[raven bridge]

At 8 it's already 30% worse

[pale pumice]

I like it in space age a lot, the endgame facts for 2.0 are perhaps a bit eh

I still do really like this idea that you want to start by sprinking beacons, because the ROI is insane

[sweet wind]

It's interesting to see though that it doesn't affect setups as much when quality affects beacon transmission power though

[pale pumice]

They're even stronger than 1.1 designs.

[sweet wind]

Makes sense since you're now double dipping into the quality boost, (module + beacon), then taking the sqrt()

[pale pumice]

purple line is strength of legendary beacon vs 1.1 beacon

Intersection point f(x) = 1 happens at 25

[pale pumice]

well I am comparing just beacon power, so is ignoring modules.

[sweet wind]

I should clarify. Giving 1.1 beacons and modules quality gave the super speed foundry +2500% speed.
New beacons getting diminishing returns, but also boosted transmission power from quality gave a 10(?) beacon setup using +1916% speed

I think you could still expect the full 16 beacon setup, with quality affecting transmission effectiveness and diminishing returns to still be ~25% better than quality not affecting effectiveness but no diminishing returns.

[candid pawn]

where did this theory come from?

ah, there's a summary of it here https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/1cgv2fm/beacon_rework_for_space_age_andor_20_leaked/

[raven bridge]

Most of the discussion is on #space-age

[late venture]

The leeks are all in #space-age

[gilded mica]

Rest of the dev team:
Damnit Kovarex

Also no planet this week. Sads.

[half mountain]

So, who is taking bets on this week's FFF being about beacons now?

[grave crag]

Kovarex
He will always win because he has insider info

[half mountain]

D:

[sweet wind]

Yeah I've put in my $5 monopoly money bet

[bold shard]

based on dev reactions this honestly didn't seem like it was planned

if beacons are this week's FFF, its because it was moved up to coincide with this news

otherwise, we're getting some new SA stuff

[pale pumice]

Well, kovarex did say he was working on a little bit about the 'scale increases' in this FFF

so I am willing to bet it was this week's FFF

They tend to like to show new things when they make them, take for example belt stacking - came out the week it was invented.

[half mountain]

belt stacking happened by "accident" when @rugged onyx and I were joking around with boskid about mod support for it.

and then it pretty much just worked.

[pale pumice]

yes, and then they shipped it out as the FFF that week after they got it done

so if Earendel championed a beacon rework, the devs got together and worked on it this week, and they feel happy about it - it feels reasonable to think it will be this week's FFF

[half mountain]

Hmm, I thought there was another fff or two between it... but my memory is shit.

[pale pumice]

there was

It took a few weeks to get perfected, you know?

[late venture]

There was about a month between the first belt stacking gifs and the FFF

[half mountain]

When the beacon fff comes out, we'll find out for sure, but I suspect the rework has been in for a bit. That's probably why they never show us any tooltips in the normal fff screenshots

[pale pumice]

I know with reasonable confidence it was a today thing.

Screenshot of earendel saying he got a 'big win' into 2.0 today, and can't wait to talk about it

follow up of earendel basially saying 'well the cat's out of the bag'

[half mountain]

"into" could mean "merged" tho.. like how kovarex was working on quality for quite a while. 🤷‍♂️ (devil's advocate)

[pale pumice]

well yeah...

but that is the same thing as the stack inserters

the FFF comes out when it's merged and readyish

[grave crag]

Sounds like 1x1 cliffs lol

[candid pawn]

where did he say that

[grave crag]

In screenshot
@pale pumice post the screenshot if it's publicity accessible

[pale pumice]

I believe it is in Earendel's patreon server, so I am not sure if it is right to post it here.

[rugged onyx]

I remember that. My favorite fan/dev moment

[desert lake]

That's a horrifying sentence

[pale pumice]

Yeah.

To give the team credit, I was very vocally against every beacon change I had seen so far, and this one has won over my support, so at least from my point of view it has managed something I thought impossible.

[desert lake]

Oh yeah I was just joking

Also, just getting this out there, I'm of the belief that this wasn't just a beacon rework for the sake of a beacon rework, not primarily at least

I think quality was a very big part of why the decision was made

Because beacons of all things feeling weirdly left out of quality has always bothered me, and I feel like the devs just didn't want to let that slide

[pure siren]

I was, and still am, a bit worried about getting enough materials to and from assemblers. That beacon rework seems to help with that, by lowering the maximum speed potential.

[pale pumice]

That's possible, but I think it is a 2.0 thing from Earendel's message

@pure siren Actually... quality beacons are a bit stronger than base beacons.

[desert lake]

Doesn't it do the opposite? Quality beacons now have the potential to be much faster than 1.1 beacons, iirc even ones are already an improvement

[pale pumice]

For all values <= 25

at 25 they are the same

[bold shard]

the low and high range of whats possible is higher, its really the midrange of quantity/quality that takes the biggest hit

[pure siren]

Yep, quality beacons/modules are what causes my worries. Beacon rework is sort of independent of that, mechanically speaking.

[desert lake]

No it's not

Quality beacons used to not do anything special

This rework is what allows quality to buff them

[pure siren]

ah, yes, iirc quality only lowered the power consumption?

[bold shard]

prior to this yeah

[pure siren]

well, power isn't an issue in 1.1, so that being the quality buff on beacons is kinda useless tbh

[desert lake]

Didn't I just mention this like 10 messages ago

[pure siren]

yes

[bold shard]

until we learn about more power creating methods in SA, it will certainly be a larger issue then

foundry and EM plant consume something like 2.5MW before any modules

[desert lake]

Efficiency module sweep

[bold shard]

and thats a single building

yep lol

[desert lake]

Sidenote but I am extremely glad any beacon rework at all is happening so it just
Shuts up
All those annoying people

"SE beacons should be the vanilla default" - people who have not played SE

I am of the opinion that asking for SE beacons in vanilla is on the exact same level as asking for bob's inserters in vanilla

And anyone who says beaconed designs are all the same has never actually tried to make a good beaconed design. They're all the same if you make them all the same instead of trying to optimize them

[bold shard]

I'm very happy with their implementation here

provided you have the power, early game benefits greatly from them, and later game increases the rewards even more for paying the price with higher end setups

[bold shard]

definitely. and SA massively increased the complexity for that

[raven bridge]

I'm almost certain beacons are the win E was talking about

[fresh grotto]

I'm still hoping that there will be some feasible/reliable way to get max quality everything once you reach late game

(or post-game, at that point)

[desert lake]

There is one, it's called growing your factory

[bold shard]

we still know nothing about endgame technologies that will open up on aquilo, so theres a good chance something there will apply to production

[fresh grotto]

I mean, unless the math is actually much more forgiving that it seems, recycling every single thing you build until you get max quality doesn't seem feasible even with a larger factory

[desert lake]

Even the stuff we do know already helps a lot. Big drills will let ore patches last a super long time, and their large coverage area enables beaconed mining. Foundries let you greatly increase the amount of raw materials you get from mining. Electromagnetic plants let you make modules and their ingredients with very significant discounts. All of these, and more, will compound together to give you significantly greater production than in 1.1. And all of that material can be siphoned into quality

[fresh grotto]

My main gripe with quality is that making and sharing "optimised" builds becomes less enjoyable (personally) if no one is ever going to consider them useful in a real game because using max quality assemblers and whatever else is just too resource intensive to setup.

Not to say that I only make things hoping that someone will use it. But it's just less fun if I know for certain no one ever will 😅

[bold shard]

remember, you'll have 5 different surfaces to build quality with. and with the 2 new planets we know of so far, they can produce a ton of quality stuff through different means

[desert lake]

Well, that just means the meaning of "optimized" will change

And most people won't use quality everywhere, they will only use it where it matters

And that will vary depending on what items they got in high qualities, and what specific problems they're facing. Which means there will be more unique and unpredictable situations in different playthroughs, and I think that's pretty cool

If your own solution that works only for you is better than a blueprint found online, I think that's great

[fresh grotto]

Yeah, that's kind of my point.
If the perfect ratio and optimized build requires max quality to setup, the majority of players would likely ignore it because it isn't feasible for them to build in their game.

Like I said, it's a personal gripe, but main enjoyment came from sharing blueprints and getting critiques and making them better.

If the responses are either "that requires max quality, I'm never going to use that" or alternatively "that isn't max quality, so it isn't optimal"... Well, then I've lost my drive to share.

[desert lake]

I can't deny that quality is a mechanic that will really take getting used to

The way it works is something very novel to factorio, it has a hard time fitting into the way people currently perceive the game

[bold shard]

I think thats the entire point of quality, to move away from the same bps placed endgame by people over and over

[fresh grotto]

I have a feeling that I'm more than likely going to play with it disabled.
In my mind it feels like having a couple of red belts amongst my blue belts. Or assembler 2s mixed in with my assembler 3s...

If I remember correctly, I think the Devs said they wanted it to feel like an additional bonus, and not something to be grinded out just to get the max benefits.

But then it throws off all the ratios and calculations... And while that's not something the average player probably cares about, there's probably a higher percentage of (for lack of a better term 😅) non-average players in Factorio who love being able to do some simple maths to quickly calculate how much they need of whatever resource

[small bear]

well u can still do quality in simple enough manner that it doesn’t mess up the ratios at all

[bold shard]

yep recycle loops

[small bear]

don’t forget u can just put quality modules in the mall assemblers

and get the rare one occasionally for your space platform

[desert lake]

But there is nothing wrong with just

Not touching it

It was specifically designed to let people that

[bold shard]

all of these things are true lol

if you don't research quality, it doesn't appear whatsoever

even the GUIs don't show it

[subtle temple]

I dont think quality will be an issue with bps, they will get categorized differently, just like how there's different belt balancer categorizes. And as the expansion is required to even use them they will probably get flags for that as well

[raven bridge]

Parametrized BPs and recipe circuits will help a lot too

[subtle temple]

recipe circuits?

[raven bridge]

yea changing recipes with circuit wire

[pure siren]

programmable assemblers

a step in the direction of recursive blueprints

[solemn cosmos]

What kind of FFF do you think we will have?
💻 = technical
= quality of life
= new planet showcase
🤯 = new machine
= beacon?

[vocal rock]

wasting FFF on beacons would we so sad(

[raven bridge]

Unless there's more to it than what we saw

Also, it could be a half of an FFF with other things, like many of the FFFs were

[vocal rock]

half sounds fine - half bwuhuo, half beacons

[pure siren]

I meant to sabotage the poll, not take it over

[vocal rock]

with great power comes great responsibility

[raven bridge]

bwucons

[bold shard]

I think something else cool this week and beacons in the next couple weeks

also, are polls gone?

I don't see the button anymore

[small bear]

it is possible that the beacon rework still has some iterations before they show us in the fff

[lilac arrow]

btw, anyone know where bwuhuo comes from ? on the first post trying to decipher the pixelated text, it already says bacchus

[bold shard]

I think it was an earlier guess

[sweet wind]

#friday-facts message

[lilac arrow]

oh thanks

#BringBackHdgora

[pure siren]

HD-Gore?

[raven bridge]

Doom eternal ^

[pure siren]

Rip and Tear through your neighborhood.

[bold mirage]

Adaanna would be a cool name for a desert themed planet

[solemn cosmos]

lol everyone voting for beacon

[desert lake]

I'm a Bacchus next week believer

[topaz wing]

I'm convinced that with all the smaller fff's we've had the past 2 months Bacchus has to be tomorrow or next week

Well small is definitely the wrong word, by that i mean no new additions exclusive to the dlc

[raven bridge]

What's a Bacchus?

[topaz wing]

it sounds edible at least

[small bear]

we can’t tell if its beacon or bacchus even if Earendel is around

[raven bridge]

The new planet wasn't a planet, it was just a beacon.

[pure siren]

one humongous beacon

a beacchus

[topaz wing]

imagine if Bwuhuo has giant spiders that work like the spidertron that can walk over walls and will target and hunt the player directly.
That will also give a reason to research spidertrons here

[desert lake]

Good luck targeting and hunting me when I'm in space

[raven bridge]

Let me remind you of these biter remains

[pure siren]

how did they get there?

[bold shard]

the artwork may or may not be WIP but I think thats some sort of omen for whats to come

[gilded mica]

Every week we vote planet. Every week another dissapointment

[desert lake]

Until next week

I still believe

[bold mirage]

what stuff do you guys think will be unlocked on bacchus bwuhuo? Surely it can't be just an advanced chemical plant, while it's nice and all I don't see it as incentivizing as the foundry+bmd or the em plant for example

[raven bridge]

BIOLOGY

[green vale]

Chem warfare

[bold mirage]

maybe they add a "pheromones" recipe that allows you to date the biters

[pure siren]

Bwuhuo won't give us just an advanced chemplant the same way Vulanus and Fulgora weren't giving is just the Foundry and the Pineapple Crafter.

I have no idea what else we get though. I'm sure it'll be amazing.

[tough ginkgo]

One possibility: The existence of the recycler makes it harder to support multiple recipes for items. But fluids don't have this problem, so an advanced chemplant could theoretically give us better recipes for things like lubricant, solid fuel, cracking without needing a built-in prod bonus. As well as being the only place you can produce $new_fluid.

[raven bridge]

We're getting alternative recipes for

[small bear]

as long as the ingredient or the product are fluids, we don’t need to worry about recyclers

[solemn cosmos]

nests?

[raven bridge]

no, it's biters

[solemn cosmos]

For people who have not voted here is poll lol

[pale pumice]

and they're fluid based :)

[raven bridge]

One of the new and recipes is not fluid based 😉

Actually a lot of them are not fluid based, but I am bending the "rules" here a bit 😉

[pale pumice]

wdym?

[raven bridge]

scrap recycling is a recipe that returns

also recycling is a recipe for , but that's bending the rules

[small bear]

they’re all from molten metal tho?

[raven bridge]

No? I answered it just above your reply

[small bear]

I don’t understand that post

[raven bridge]

There are many ways to get in SA.
From .
From molten iron.
From recycling scrap.
From recycling things that use .

[small bear]

well u can’t count recycling recipes when considering whether the addition of an alternative recipe breaks recyler recipes

[raven bridge]

That's why I'm bending the rules 😄

[small bear]

and even if the default recipe is solid based, as long as the alternative recipe is fluid based its fine

[raven bridge]

Yup yup

[small bear]

[bold mirage]

craft > recycle into scrap > get from scrap > profit??

[pale pumice]

scrap recycle i think counts @small bear

[small bear]

hum, in fact the new alternative recipe must be fluid based?

[raven bridge]

Nope

It just uses the recipe that is named the same as the item

[pale pumice]

or chemical

[small bear]

scrap recycling is technically a reverse recipe

[pale pumice]

how

[small bear]

it’s just that they don’t allow u to do the forward recipe

[pale pumice]

silly and not true

[small bear]

there is no multiple to one reverse recipe

the reverse process of scrap recycling cannot be a recycling recipe as recyclers don’t accept multiple input

which mean scrap recycling must be itself a recycler recipe

it’s just that u can’t craft 25 scraps from 12 different inputs in an assembler

hummm but u can hand recycle scraps

[raven bridge]

It's a single forward recipe that is crafted in the recycler

[arctic wasp]

It'll probably also work the same as other recycler recipies, it's likely a furnace internally

[raven bridge]

It was confirmed to be a furnace

[arctic wasp]

the scrap -> not scrap recipe probably uses a different category than the other recycling recipes, to make it handcraftable

although, can you handcraft scrap? I need to reread the FFF

[raven bridge]

You can handcraft recycle scrap

[arctic wasp]

Ah, looks like you'll be able to handcraft yourself recyclers

but how are you going to power them?

[small bear]

by hand crafting lighting rods

those are probably hand craftable from scrap recycling outputs

[arctic wasp]

ah true

although it's funny you can't craft any power poles from scrap

[small bear]

u can

they changed the recipe

u can craft substations

they now use cables instead of copper plate

[arctic wasp]

oh, did they change substations to need copper wire instead of plate

dang, sniped

funny that the best power pole ingame is also the first one you make on fulgora

[small bear]

which feels great

[raven bridge]

Unless you drop some from space, which your probably should

Because you might not even have unlocked

[small bear]

perhaps I would drop some assemblers, bots and logi chests

[arctic wasp]

it's probably worth mentioning I'm the kind of person who designs an intricate Mün lander and accidentally blocks the hatch with a ladder

[raven bridge]

Is that not a softlock then?

[small bear]

it’s possible that u need substation as a prerequest tech at some point before Fulgora

[raven bridge]

Or you can get some from ruins

[arctic wasp]

it is, unless lightning rods also act as poles

or you can get somehow

[raven bridge]

Maybe removing the "natural" lightning rods gives

[small bear]

I think its more likely that u will need substation tech to unlock satellite

[arctic wasp]

what if you don't research the recycler before you land on Fulgora?

is that even possible?

[raven bridge]

Recycler is a trigger tech on

[small bear]

recycler is a trigger tech on Fulgora

[arctic wasp]

what's 's trigger tech?

[raven bridge]

foundry

[arctic wasp]

foundry?

[small bear]

basic coal liquefaction and lava processing

and foundry

and metallurgic science

probably also tungsten processing

oh and big mining drill

[arctic wasp]

it'd probably be possible to start on Fulgora with no tech unlocked apart from trigger tech you get for landing

[raven bridge]

You don't get trigger tech for landing

But for doing stuff e.g. mining/recycling scrap

[arctic wasp]

unless there's no way to get power poles outside of making a

[raven bridge]

Are and even required for launching a rocket? I don't think so

[arctic wasp]

ah fair, but yeah it makes sense to have recycler be locked behind 'has visited and done stuff on Fulgora'

[raven bridge]

Ah they do, for accumulators

[small bear]

u can just add a tech tree dependency to ensure is unlocked before space science

[arctic wasp]

yeah I forgot they're the same tech as accumulators

[raven bridge]

They aren't, but required for

[small bear]

perhaps u need as ingredients for platform hub

[raven bridge]

That I can see happening

[arctic wasp]

would make sense, platform distributes it's own power

also you can tell I haven't played vanilla in... a while

[small bear]

tho I see nothing wrong to have the tech dependency without recipe actually needing substation

[arctic wasp]

alternatively, slip into the satellite recipe

[raven bridge]

Slip it as a requirement for unlock 😄

[small bear]

lmao

being a prerequest for is there, so it’s entirely possible that u need as prerequest for satellite but not its ingredient

imo most tech dependencies should converge near space science

maybe except those tech

[raven bridge]

Personally I'm probably gonna do all or almost all tech before even launching

[small bear]

true

u need to spend time to setup a full perimeter defense before leaving

that’s enough time to unlock all the non infinite research

at least all the relatively cheap ones

tbh I’m not a fan of having to make full perimeter defense before leaving Nauvis

[raven bridge]

We'll have to see what extra remote options they give us

We still don't have a good solution for remote expansion

[small bear]

and we know that spidertron is not on Nauvis

[bold mirage]

specially on fulgora, where we can't just make a roboport path

[raven bridge]

yea we can make roboport highways, but that doesn't handle biters

[bold mirage]

I guess you could in theory turret creep remotely but yeah I get what you mean

perhaps the rts controller can handle tanks or cars?

[small bear]

I hope we have remote car driving

[raven bridge]

From what we know so far, I'm going to do my standard choke point wall defense with train supplies

[bold shard]

THAT would be cool

[raven bridge]

And enough expansion for several ore patches so I could quickly outpost if I need to

[bold mirage]

someone mentioned that could be the place where you unlock

[arctic wasp]

It's probably more likely to be on - it'd be thematic

Bwuhuo is probably chemistry/oil themed, considering the name, placeholder sprite, and the teased machine

I'd say of the three techs being moved off , they'll probably be unlocked on:
- (metallurgy)
- (electronics)
- (chemistry?)

and maybe we'll get uberlandfill on aquilo

[bold shard]

it'll be the land of godlike technologies that combines all 3

[rocky plover]

is probably Aquillo since it's the uber-lategame tech.

[bold mirage]

having to manage aquilo while juggling 4 planets with no spiderton will be very harsh if that's the case

specially if your fulgora patches run out, since you have no other choice but to go there manually

[gilded mica]

ehh not necessarily; perhaps will have spider biters which will unlock the spidertron

Since they already teased one distinct biter variant I guess there'll be some more

unlocking advanced chem plants would make sense. It would also be kinda awkward since most players will prioritize and first. Which is somewhat stiffling

So I wonder if theyÄll add something to make it more enticing

[ashen herald]

I wonder if drop canisters will act as storage chests for the logistic network. Also will they just be to send down to the planet the platform orbits?

[solemn cosmos]

lookin like beacon fff

[small bear]

dev said all vanilla unlocks can be accessed relatively early in SA so probably not on the lasst planet

[pale pumice]

my bet for spider is bacchus or fulgora

My bet is Bacchus because Fulgora already has some pretty good toys of it's own, and it is clear that bacchus won't be able to compete as easily with chemicals alone

(also it is weird that it is a spider robot and all)

a bit too biological of a bot design imo

@small bear What percentage do you think we currently understand Bacchus? I think we honestly know very little about how it will play. I am thinking, if there are spiders there, what is ?

[small bear]

I think we have no idea of Bacchus

what’s a Bacchus

[pale pumice]

yeah... I think that is the case too

But we haven't even spoken about how vague our idea is of Aquilo

[small bear]

tbh we at least know that foundation will be produced on Aquilo

and we will be using nuclear power on the way to Aquilo

[proper ember]

Based on the earlier poll I guess nobody wants a Space Age release FFF so we're going to delay it by a year, thank you for your votes!

[pale pumice]

Okay, I'll bite. We want every feature that was moved to 2.1 as well :)

I mean there is a year more time, no?

[proper ember]

fml

[pale pumice]

the monkey's paw strikes again

To be entirely fair, V, there are many people that are expecting you guys to delay by a year anyways. The rest of the industry has us a bit jaded.

[proper ember]

well, time will tell

[pale pumice]

Yeah, and admittedly not much of it! There must be this feeling around the team of 'oh god, that's in X months now?!'

[sweet wind]

[pale pumice]

'when it's done' isn't true anymore

'october this year at the latest' is not a binding contract by any means, but if it's not out by october it is fair to consider it reasonably delayed.

[sweet wind]

There are pleanty of games to play. As much as I expect Space Age / 2.0 to easily be one of the best of those games when it releases, It wouldn't affect me that much if it got delayed.

[pale pumice]

I won't be upset.

I am just saying that it can be delayed, there was a rough timeline given.

'when it's done' isn't really in play anymore

It was never really fully in play, they had always intended 'about a year'

[sweet wind]

I think is still in play. It's just that they have some deadline to decide what "done" means.

[pale pumice]

I don't understand what you mean

[sweet wind]

Like with 1.0, they had to decide that it was "done" without introducing quality or any of the space platform stuff.

Basically, it has to be 'done' before they release it. I highly doubt they'll follow the trend of releasing unfinished products

[pale pumice]

They're already doing that so that's fair

We know for sure some 2.0 things have been moved to 2.1

[sweet wind]

If by you mean "we don't know when" then yeah that isn't really in play.

We know roughly when

[pale pumice]

Unless delayed!

[sweet wind]

Do we know of any examples? I vaguely remember it being said somewhere that they'll do a 2.1 patch, but I don't remember anything beyond compatibility related stuff like old rail removal.

[pale pumice]

We don't know of any instances

#space-age message

[small bear]

humm will they announce the SA release date in this week fff?

[pale pumice]

I don't think so

[sweet wind]

I would expect it to mainly be some minor QoL stuff though (the 2.1 split not FFF)

[pale pumice]

Wouldn't be so sure. Spidertron was 1.1

[sweet wind]

No spidertron was 1.0

[small bear]

wait wasn’t it 1.0?

[pale pumice]

nope, 1.1

I'm pretty sure right?

[small bear]

iirc 1.1 was better spidertron control

[sweet wind]

No it got some QoL improvements in 1.1

[pale pumice]

Ah you're right

spidertron was made actually usable in 1.1 lol

[small bear]

1.1 also added train stop limits

[pale pumice]

fair enough

[small bear]

I would be happy if we can remote driving tank and it has equipment grid and logistics requests

[sweet wind]

I just don't think it's very necessary

[small bear]

it’s very helpful

[sweet wind]

We have spidertrons for that

[small bear]

u can’t rts control tank

[pale pumice]

I don't really like the idea of that

[quasi crest]

arent they like, endgame though?

[sweet wind]

Probably not in Space Age

[pale pumice]

that is just a spidertron lite

[sweet wind]

I would expect it to be a middle planet unlock, probably

[small bear]

I feel like I would be slowed down and trapped on Nauvis for longer if theres no good tool to fix issues outside bot network

[sweet wind]

I expect you'd be fine going to your first planet on only the starting patch

[small bear]

I’m not sure

[sweet wind]

And one or two outposts isn't a nightmare to maintain as well, a relatively small stockpile on a local network could last a long time

[small bear]

space platform construction isn’t cheap

[sweet wind]

You wouldn't need more than one space platform

[small bear]

the thing is u don’t know how long u will spend at other planets

[sweet wind]

Also if you shut down production on nauvis, biter attacks will pretty much stop altogether.

[small bear]

and there’s always chance that biters accidentally break your power connections along the rail

if u don’t do a full seal defense

[sweet wind]

it'd be another decision you'd need to make, do you spend longer making Nauvis capable of defending itself while maintaining production, or do you spend less time there to try to get other planets goodies faster

[small bear]

imagine shutting down Nauvis base so u can spend time on another planet

[sweet wind]

Yeah, it's an option

A pretty valid one imo

If you feel you need a spidertron/foundry/EMP/recycler that badly that is

[pale pumice]

You can always expand your roboports towards the problem

[small bear]

to be fair I can just place several extra power connections so the chance biters destroy all of them along the rail is minimal

[heavy adder]

I honestly think you should Just make a "toggle" for nauvis base Produktion, clear out all biters in pollution radius and then leave

[pale pumice]

I'm just going to leave my base going

[heavy adder]

Isnt even that annoying to set up if you Just block belt inputs

[small bear]

biters expands tho

[heavy adder]

I personally will play 2.0 with biters and pollution off

[pale pumice]

A base with roboports is no big deal

[sweet wind]

You could also steam power your outposts to be extra safe.

[heavy adder]

Oh ye i forgot expansion

Thats cringe

[small bear]

it’s usually not the biter attacks that mess up things, its the biter expansion team

[pale pumice]

is artillery somewhere else?

[small bear]

those have higher chance to go across your rail and eat the power poles

[small bear]

yes

[pale pumice]

that is interesting..

where do we think spidertron and arty will be?

I'd guess bacchus for both, but that can't be right, huh?

artillery on Vulcanus?

[sweet wind]

Yeah probably that

[heavy adder]

I think rushing 2nd planet without leaving nauvis defenseless will be hard, probably gonna take 2-3h more at least depending on Design of base

[pale pumice]

SA will probably be more reasonable multiplayer :P

[small bear]

imagine machine give u chemical and military prod

so would be the best for artillery shell production

[pale pumice]

perhaps only for explosives though

so artillery, rockets, but not bullets

[small bear]

I can see plastic, explosives and explosive ammos

[sweet wind]

If has a heavy chemical and warfare focus that would make sense to me

and both have pretty good identities that dont involve either

as far as we know

[small bear]

Explosion dynamics facility

still wonder where will be unlocked

[heavy adder]

Probably last Planet scienxe

[pale pumice]

vulcanus imo

pepperbox we see them being made on vulc

[sweet wind]

Yeah

[pale pumice]

thing is

you'd make them there anyways

[sweet wind]

I think 3 times now it's been shown made on vulcanus

[small bear]

I also feel like

[pale pumice]

problem

[heavy adder]

What Planet is your guys favorite to expand first to?

[pale pumice]

even if they're unlocked on Bacchus, you'd make them on Vulcanus

[pale pumice]

Bacchus

[sweet wind]

I can't say for sure until we see Bacchus

[small bear]

Bwuhuo

[sweet wind]

but right now it's a coinflip

[pale pumice]

correct answer is nauvis geniuses

[small bear]

Aquilo

[heavy adder]

I really like the fulgora concept

But thats the rail nerd in me

[small bear]

when u realize each rail support needs 50 refined concrete

they’re also probably too heavy for rockets

[heavy adder]

Byproduct i dont see any issues 😂

[sweet wind]

I'm not sure it's that big a deel when you get normal concrete already from scrap

And steel

[heavy adder]

6% concrete 5% stone from scrap

[frail kestrel]

The water cost is going to be painful though.

[sweet wind]

melt some ice and recycle some gears to make into iron rods and boom you got refined concrete

[bold shard]

we'll have to see how much ice yields

[sweet wind]

Drop some ice from orbit

[bold shard]

and of course will help 🙂

[heavy adder]

Module my beloved

Cant wait to sort through the sushi of a full belt output of scrap

[small bear]

I believe u can get at least 50 water per ice

[bold shard]

it shouldn't be too painful then

[sweet wind]

You can't use the stone to make concrete because there's not iron ore.

The only way to get iron ore on fulgora is to recycle concrete, which is counterproductive to making concrete

[frail kestrel]

Unless they change things, no for refined

[heavy adder]

Hmm seems like a loophole

[bold shard]

in the grand scheme of things if you're processing millions of scrap, you can sacrifice a few to build whatever you want

[heavy adder]

Just pump productivity modules and cycle recycling and crafting back up

(Does this work tho?)

[sweet wind]

You can't get more from recycle loops than you put in

[heavy adder]

Sadge

[sweet wind]

there's a 300% productivity cap

[heavy adder]

But kinda good

Imagine a inputless item generator

[small bear]

this is surely something devs want to prevent

so they added a max cap on prod

[bold shard]

mods can bypass it