their own tool
#programmers-off-topic
safe dragon
cinder karma
The Google way
safe dragon
this website gets my approval
just jquery for some interactivity and a library for a fancy slider
though it is jquery 1.11
which came out over 10 years ago
pliant snow
if it aint broke
can you imagine going to your boss and saying we need to update the jquery, but not actually change anything
safe dragon
"I don't like the number that is commented at the top of this minified jquery file"
pliant snow
okay going from png to webp did reduce one of the images by like 80% lol
safe dragon
who could've thought
raw pelican
but also I hate webp.
safe dragon
damn
raw pelican
I guess for images people don't want to download it's superior but otherwise trying to get to a jpeg/png version of a webp is annoying.
safe dragon
I looked into alternatives like avif and jpeg xl for thumbnail generation but they're either not supported or don't really have good tooling available rn with what I use
pliant snow
the annoying thing about webp isnt webp, its that a lot of viewers dont support it for some reason
once i found the right package, i dont mind them
raw pelican
Fine, I like webp fine, I dislike how quickly it was adopted by browsers vs how ~~fast ~~ slow media is adapting.
fleet wren
The fervent webp hate online is interesting to me, but maybe I'll understand it better if I use Windows and/or process photos for a living
safe dragon
I mean, photo processing tools all support webp and have for years now
so do I think all major thumbnailer programs used by linux file explorers
I think the problem has mostly been solved at this point but the bad experiences linger
there's some weird things though
I'm not sure if it's still true but discord used to not support uploading webps for profile pictures even though they themselves serve profile pictures as webps
fleet wren
apparently Photoshop only supported webp since 2022, and Windows Photos only since last year. That's basically 5 minutes in internet time
safe dragon
damn
fleet wren
Like I said, if I used Windows I'd probably sympathize more with the online hate. Linux/GIMP wins again
pliant snow
ive apparently never done nested lists in HTML correctly
safe dragon
how are you doing it and how is it supposed to be done
pliant snow
we'll mark those down as "not recommended"
safe dragon
<tr colspan="3">
I did one time recently have an easier time implementing a layout with tables than grid
which was, would you believe it, for a table
pliant snow
just nested ul/li tags
Apparently when you nest them, the nested ones have to belong to their parent <li> element
Wrong:
<ul>
<li>Item A</li>
<li>Item B</li>
<ul>
<li>Item C</li>
</ul>
</ul>
Correct:
<ul>
<li>Item A</li>
<li>Item B
<ul>
<li>Item C</li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>
which i think looks stupid, but apparently is correct
pliant snow
I've made improvements
the other stuff it wants is kinda dumb so I'm not going to worry about it
apparently a 7 day caching time isn't enough, it wants an entire year
fleet wren
do browser caches even live that long
rain apex
what does Core Web Vitals assessment mean
pliant snow
how healthy your spider is
rain apex
every site i tried this on failed that for mobile
safe dragon
you have no idea how difficult it is to get any scores close to this with blazor
well
any blazor rendering mode that isnt SSR
fleet wren
run JS on your website? jail
safe dragon
understandable
rotund violet
Working with ref struct in C# really makes me appreciate the Rust borrow checker despite its rough edges. There seems to be no viable way to express "A owns B and therefore it is not a leak for B to have a reference to A's state". As soon as you go ref struct, it's all copy-on-assign all the time.
rotund violet
They're needed if you ever want to write no-alloc code.
safe dragon
likely unnecessary for 99% of everything I do but neat tool for in the toolbelt
rotund violet
Yeah, well, yesterday/today I decided to try to write a parser, which is one of the main use cases where you really do want to use them.
cinder karma
Fuck QT
cinder karma
I don't have time for this bullshit, qt
rain apex
what ails you
safe dragon
qt
safe dragon
https://www.bankofcanada.ca/banknotes/bank-note-series/vertical-series/vertical1...
and one of the funkiest scrolling effects I've seen
I mean I hate it but it's neat
rain apex
great use of tax dollars trust
cinder karma
You know what I fucking enjoy? Sudden dark mode that doesn't change any of the font colors
safe dragon
ah you have that beautiful black on black
qt used to always have that with dropdowns and shit for me
dark text with a dark background
pliant snow
libreoffice always does that by default for me lol
safe dragon
libreoffice is so awful with theming
cinder karma
Tbh my word files are also doing it which is weird
I really do not want it to be in dark mode
pliant snow
lol i think ive seen that before
floral parcel
That's really cool. I think I've also seen it before as well, haha.
safe dragon
smh he's late
pliant snow
yeah, git revert
pliant snow
9 seems like a perfectly logical default value
fleet wren
Just keep everything in a scalable Excel table
you just add new rows and it scales right up
safe dragon
I have been told some businesses have actually genuinely worked with automatically updated excel sheets
pliant snow
I've been given the horrible task of manually copying data into an excel sheet once every few weeks
Which I actually need to start thinking of ways to remove that excel sheet, its the dumbest thing in the world
safe dragon
oh no
are they aware that there are libraries that can write to excel sheets for you
raw pelican
the last person who did the task knew but kept quiet about it so they could spend 10 minutes copypasting and 7 hours playing runescape.
pliant snow
Its a list of requirements that our products are supposed to obey. Anytime someone makes a new feature they need to go into this repository and add their new requirements to the proper git-backed CSV. It's not the worst idea in the world, except at the end of every quarter someone has to come along and cross reference the individual new requirements to which products they actually apply to, which somehow has become me. Now that we've moved to using ADO for everything, my goal is to convince the higher ups to move it to live in there, which would be 1000x simpler for everyone, but I suspect I'm going to get pushback
raw pelican
but, people who don't know even basic excel function much less doing things programmatically for it is wild.
pliant snow
If anyone knows if ADO supports some sort of searchable... whatever for us to put a list of product requirements so that regular users can just search or filter through them or whatever, please let me know lmao
safe dragon
what's ADO
pliant snow
Azure DevOps
pliant snow
That's not quite what we need
pliant snow
Yeah, its called a CSV and I'm the database
it needs to be human readable
by people who know nothing other than Excel
I've done my best to write a script that will scrape the data I need, but theres no guarentee the stuff I'm scraping even has everything
rain apex
well, that seems like bigger issue than what data storage format you are use
pliant snow
Everyone lives out of ADO, that's part of why I want it moved in there, it would become a more rigid part of the process
this is half office politics, half technology
safe dragon
do your requirements change that often
pliant snow
The higher ups are convinced that pretty much every new feature should add new requirements
So it's dozens of entries I have to sort thru each quarter
pliant snow
"The product should be able to do X, Y, Z if A is present" stuff like that
safe dragon
documentation
pliant snow
yes, but very bad documentation
I actually hate how we structure our requirements, but thats a whole other fight not worth having
safe dragon
normally you'd verify something like this through integration tests
pliant snow
We do, this is one of the things the testers apparently utilize
safe dragon
where I work it's the testers who document the requirements
pliant snow
Wouldn't that be nice
I am merely the middleman trying to format these documents from the developers who dont want to write them to whoever injests them
pliant snow
no dont say that
safe dragon
other than the wiki I suppose
pliant snow
i have to believe i can be free
safe dragon
you can be
pliant snow
The manager who did this before me basically went "oh yeah, I was spending hours every evening doing this, i appreciate the help"
safe dragon
this sounds like some peak big business efficiency
pliant snow
yeah its great
pliant snow
If anything, this is one of the oldest continuous documentation we have, which means its kinda jank
anyway
time to push the governor changes and see if everything breaks
lol
Now we watch and wait...
safe dragon
as everything explodes
worn remnant
is it a behavior change or just a refactor?
pliant snow
There's one slight behavior change, but it should just be a refactor
safe dragon
the error is a behavior change
pliant snow
oh theres a whole file of functions with incorrect parameters now, cool
safe dragon
if only there was some way programming languages could tell you this before it runs
alas
sand frost
Did the bots fall over?
pliant snow
we turned on the "Onboarding" feature which for some reason has meant that people aren't getting their roles like they should, but only occasionally
I have no idea why, and took this opportunity to refactor a bunch of stuff
sand frost
Ah, I also added that to the server I own—I had to beef up the spam filters but otherwise it seemed to go fine, but previously I had been adding roles by hand (very small server compared this one lol)
pliant snow
I have no idea why it would change
That they're still getting XP, but something is changing where they don't get the role, even tho it always works without that setting
sand frost
Hmm, that’s pretty weird 😦
pliant snow
I keep trying to be clever and cache the data, but its saving me from searching through a like 6 element array, I should just do it
since the cache clearly is getting me off
rip tiny bit of efficiency
safe dragon
depending on the implementation of the cache it might not even be faster than scanning an array of 6 elements
pliant snow
It was literally just a mapping to the index in the array. Although now I do have to get the IDs of all the roles they have, just to see if they're missing any, but that's also an array of less than 10 for most users
I should also say I only added that cache this morning as part of the rework so im not too sad to remove it an hour later lol
safe dragon
you're distraught I understand
pliant snow
that function had gotten really weird tho, I was passing in values that could be None and returning values that could be None, it was really goofy
gaunt wadi
youtube broke invidious again 
gaunt wadi
yeah, it seems like they're rolling out whatever new protection this is slowly so some videos work but others don't
pliant snow
boo
gaunt wadi
thankfully, playlet pushed a hotfix which uses https://github.com/LuanRT/YouTube.js/ for video data instead of invidious, so I can still use it on my tv
and that works well for normal videos but live streams are super low quality/laggy
gaunt wadi
oh, they used to work perfectly for me
pliant snow
I get around it for now by playing any video that isnt working via mpv, but its not ideal
Missing my sponsorblock 😔
gaunt wadi
pliant snow
safe dragon
protocol to speed up protocol development
one of the best ways to speed up wayland protocol development is by blocking the entire gnome foundation from voicing their opinions
totally factual and I am not biased
worn remnant
fire gnome into the sun
cinder karma
I want to declare I found a very much a heisenbug at work
And it has to do with a device controlled by gpib
gaunt wadi
is there a replacement for wayland yet
to solve all of wayland's problems
Also, after having read architecture docs yet again, I still do not understand the desktop windowing architecture
They don't do a very good job of explaining it
pliant snow
its all very confusing
cinder karma
Crashing the computer with windows Explorer lol
gaunt wadi
@pliant snow actually looks to be caused by new install requirements to get around the latest protections; adding them fixed it for me https://github.com/iv-org/inv_sig_helper/issues/25#issuecomment-2372559195
pliant snow
<@254640676233412610> actually looks to be caused by new install requirements to...
What actually is this?
pliant snow
hmmm
I guess the official invidious installation guide recommends it
looks like that was just added this week
gaunt wadi
Oh I see, rather than reverse engineering the javascript google uses to try to lock down youtube to its clients, it just runs it instead
It's google, so they probably wouldn't run malware?
pliant snow
it does seem to work
cinder karma
There is another Beatle at work
sand frost
Beatle or beetle?
rain apex
I hope it's Ringo
safe dragon
another?
candid pilot
better be ringo
ivory shadow
Probably just Paul.
pliant snow
that rascal
cinder karma
I kinda wish that companies would stop with the ai chat bots in the corner
rotund violet
They will. I give it about 6 months to a year before the GPT (and GenAI in general) bubble bursts.
safe dragon
the little AI support chatbots have been around for much longer and as far as I can tell they did not get better from gpt either
rotund violet
Yes. But now they all depend on either OpenAI or Anthropic. It's that dependency, which did not exist before, that will take them down.
marble jewel
I think we're heading into the Trough of Disillusionment phase of the hype cycle
safe dragon
maybe
marble jewel
(Around LLMs specifically)
safe dragon
it has at least stopped being something that helps you in marketing (to people that is, not investors)
rotund violet
The hype cycle is a techno-social model; my prediction for LLMs are based on the financials. That's not to say that the hype cycle is incorrect here, just that it only predicts when people will stop being excited about it, not that the industry will collapse.
There will be no "slope of enlightenment" for GenAI, it's a dead end.
(Which is terrifying for my stock portfolio, but in my defense, I didn't choose them because of GenAI, they started diverting into GenAI long after I owned them.)
marble jewel
I work under the Data & AI Org at my company, and we went from leaders saying we'd become AI Powered a year or more ago, to not much really changing as of now
cinder karma
I'm just looking for the default stackup man
I don't need help of AI, I just need a well organized website
rotund violet
That's my point - the collapse is not simply hype dying down, it is a massive change in the financial structure, both capital and pricing.
Well, "massive" over time, it will be subtle at first.
marble jewel
I think the hype cycle follows that though. It will find it's place somewhere way below the hype, but in a more utility/cost-effective function.
rain apex
i wish i could work up techbro enthusiasm towards AI tbh
the image generation stuff has valid applications for my work
rotund violet
There is no cost-effective solution to GenAI. Have you looked at how much capital they are burning through? It is unprecedented; it makes the 2008 mortgage meltdown look like chump change.
marble jewel
Right now, but aren't a lot of the costs based on using GPU hardware
rotund violet
i wish i could work up techbro enthusiasm towards AI tbh
(There's a naming issue here; GenAI is barely AI. AI is still interesting and relevant, but GenAI in particular is a dead end.)
GPU, TPU... either way it requires insane amounts of capital and there are no new ideas or revenue streams coming out.
The biggest (albeit invisible) cost is actually the training data, which they have essentially run out of, and that is why they've all resorted to massive copyright infringement.
rain apex
we r try to implement AI upscaling
but the plugins we r trying out is unsatisfied with the mere 100gb of ram
marble jewel
That's why I think it will "crash" in a sense, but land on much more boring utilty functions rather than be world changing as the hype would want people to believe
rotund violet
ESRGAN is not good enough?
rain apex
(unsure, i say we but its really my coworker who is suffering with it)
rotund violet
That's why I think it will "crash" in a sense, but land on much more boring util...
What utilities, though? That's the fundamental problem I see; all the problems GenAI is being touted to solve are invented problems, or problems that didn't need solving. Most techs we talk about on the hype cycle do solve real problems and are just a little too, well, overhyped. But if the real costs of GPT et al are exposed to consumers then it is 10x more expensive to solve with it than without it.
The real cost to run this stuff is far higher than the cost of an intern or secretary. Even the cost of a mediocre graphic artist.
raw pelican
lol blockchain there at the beginning. One techbro vulture capitalist "innovation" trying to latch onto the new one to maintain relevance.
General GenAI I have described and maintain is a cute novelty at best, not efficient for its power use.
AI/ML tools like LectinOracle and AlphaFold are good uses of the tech, but they won't make money like how the techbros want AI to make money, and seeing predicted proteins is not exciting or sexy to the average user, useful as it is, so it doesn't get much mainstream play.
rotund violet
Blockchain is what I'd consider a good example of the hype cycle. Bitcoin solves a real problem, but the massive shitcoin/NFT/etc. stuff that sprung up around it and every management consultant pushing companies that have nothing to do with finance into "blockchain" solutions was unnecessary and pointless.
"Techbros" are a minor driver of all this, it's the McKinsey consultants who control the hundreds of billions of dollars required to keep the engine running.
I think the average techbro is just easily excited and easily duped.
cinder karma
Fwiw when people say tech bro
I hear tech enthusiasts
Not necessarily technical people
cinder karma
I'm just looking for the default stackup man
This is equivalent to, like, not being able to find the sizing chart on a clothing website
sand frost
usually at that point I begin to suspect the website of being a scam
safe dragon
not great
tech bro to me means one of those silicion valley "entrepreneurs" that try to sell investors on the future of some industry with some technical innovation they pretend is going to change everything
they might not necessarily even have a technical background. They just think tech is the solution to... anything really
they're more charisma than actual credentials
cinder karma
usually at that point I begin to suspect the website of being a scam
They are not
They are just the type of person who is good at what they do and bad at web design
raw pelican
when I say techbro, I mean "silicon valley talk fast hype man seeking VC money and selling vaporware". I don't mean to insult tech enthusiasts.
safe dragon
yeah
they might not even necessarily be a tech enthusiast. They might just see it more as a marketing tactic than something they believe in
that said. I do think generative AI will find a place in something. Even if it's just a much smaller locally run instance which might be reasonable enough to run on regular workstation machines for autocompletion solutions for example
I don't think these gigantic very expensive genAI cloud providers could ever be profitable though
rotund violet
tech bro to me means one of those silicion valley "entrepreneurs" that try to se...
I'm with Atra on this, or at least I think I am. "Tech bro" is principally used as a sneer word against ordinary guys who enjoy tech, and principally used by the exact people whom Teoshen is talking about. I know that none of you guys here mean it in any way that's intended as an insult to any of us, but, having spent so much time in the industry, I really do not like the phrase because of this very ambiguity and the fact that it's more often deployed as propaganda than used to describe a real situation.
Or more succinctly: The VCs, management consultants and fake "entrepreneurs" who are actually fucking everything up, love using the term "tech bro" to blame the corrosive culture on the engineers who actually do all their work.
safe dragon
I guess it's just a different environment we find ourselves in for the use of that word
rotund violet
I mean, this is the top definition on urbandictionary and you see what I mean:
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Techbro
safe dragon
while mine is more this https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Techbro
rotund violet
It's meant to convey the idea that everything that's wrong with the tech industry is the fault of the engineers, and not the management consultants and tech journalists.
safe dragon
the tvtropes definition pretty much matches what the term has meant to me
always nice to have a term with competing definitions
rotund violet
I think this throwaway line in the TV tropes writeup really gets to the heart of it:
(if they aren't just fratbros and hedge fund kids who fell into funding tech startups)
The people the article is talking about are almost always frat bros and hedge fund kids, and almost always well-funded and advised by VCs and management consultants who are totally on board or even pulling the strings; they are almost never former/current nerds running their own show and virtually always have no background whatsoever in tech. Having them called tech bros is a very deliberate mechanism for connecting them with programmers, engineers, etc. And you can see from the rest of the TV tropes page that even the author(s) of that page is/are very confused and have trouble separating the two.
They paint it as a bottom-up movement rising from geek culture when it is in fact a totally top-down movement run by well-connected insiders.
We already had several perfectly good phrases to describe those sorts of people: grifters, con artists, hustlers, and so on.
pliant snow
Listening to google may have messed up stardew.chat on mobile...
God its quite fucked up
Its that initial-width=1 meta tag which i dont really understand
pliant snow
oh that
pliant snow
I just deleted it. It might be improper to not have but it looks better lol
candid pilot
why is set not hashable in python
is it about mutability?
there's frozenset i guess
candid pilot
makes sense
candid pilot
im gonna use frozenset
candid pilot
ok benchmarking my algorithm on my own computer instead of just sending it to romayne 😭
some of the things i really think would speed it up ends up just making it slower
also the weird slope for yellow comes because i ran it from 1 to 100 and then from 100 onward
candid pilot
anyway this looks like O(n^2) which is prob the best i can get
candid pilot
going to write this up in stardew and see how reasonable it is
supple ether
Wow is the brute force method n! or something
worn remnant
yeah, it was n!. (calculating actual fish hook percentages)
candid pilot
yeah, O(n!). there are n! possible random shuffles for a list of length n 😵💫
hollow marsh
I may not be able to code, but... I don't think he's doing it right
candid pilot
ohh python style
floral parcel
The curly braces are on the right side. Dude that's evil... 😭
leaden marsh
I wouldn't be surprised if the code is written without the curly braces and semi-colons, and that those are all actually added via some sort of parser
safe dragon
I think we just hit a record on the amount of comments placed in a single PR. They outsourced the implementation of a feature to some other company and the changes they made are just insane
it was ultimately a fairly straightforward feature but my lord this PR
riddled with bugs, scenario's that would crash the application, buttons that will become completely unresponsive for over several seconds due to random connection checks thrown in...
there's over 100 comments on this PR and all we did was a single scan
pretty much none of them are nitpicky things but actual functional problems
there's a while(true) retry loop with no cap of any kind
what a nightmare
happy I will not be around to have to maintain this
safe dragon
alas
management told me their plan was to move more work to an outsourced team with me leaving
pliant snow
That bodes well for them
safe dragon
definitely
pliant snow
When is your last day
pliant snow
the sign of a good change
rotund violet
I wonder if they will "outsource" to ChatGPT. Based on what you're telling us, it might be an improvement.
safe dragon
I really would expect better from chatgpt
pliant snow
in that case it would be much better written, but when you go to run it you find that none of the functions it used actually exist
rotund violet
That could still be an improvement over making the app unresponsive.
safe dragon
at least then it just wouldn't compile
cinder karma
God, dotnet framework 4.5 is hard to install these days
safe dragon
yeah at work we have some funky installer we had to basically reverse engineer to get 4.5
luckily we have since moved everything out of 4.5
cinder karma
I'm just trying to run an example code file from NI
So far I have yak shaved three versions of dotnet
I've found net framework 4.0 dlls lol
safe dragon
with some luck you can just update the csproj to an easier to install newer version
safe dragon
for core?
I think microsoft themselves still distribute all the sdks for core
they're not that old
for .net framework you'd need to update it to 4.6.2 or later to get a regular download from microsoft
safe dragon
idk what NI is
cinder karma
National Instruments
safe dragon
dotnet 6 should be easy if they supposedly moved to that...
cinder karma
Yeah, except well
safe dragon
all you modders probably already have it installed...
safe dragon
does NI just not distribute their packages at all
cinder karma
Badly!
safe dragon
even for internal packages we use nuget man
not the standard source of course
the NI Package Manager...
well good luck
cinder karma
So is your plan install net 4.5 or find NI net 6 binaries?
I'm doing both at the same time
Also trying the c sample code
rotund violet
Do you actually need the 4.5 runtime to run 4.5 code? I thought 5.0 was essentially a merge of the 4.x track and the Core track and could handle both.
cinder karma
My problem is that labview runs the code
I am not sure what the latest version I can use is, i thought it was core 6 but I'm having a hell of a time finding the common instrument lib for core at all
Disconcertingly labview itself may be using framework 4.6.2
safe dragon
there is no core 6 unless you just mean .net 6
safe dragon
understandable
4.6.2 is also what our cash registers run
cause some clients are for some reason completely unwilling to update windows to a newer version that would support anything beyond that
rotund violet
IIRC, .NET 5 was the first to require Win10.
Lot of people really did not want to move away from Win7 and I completely understand why.
When Microsoft finally decides to stop supporting Win10 and puts out a framework version requiring Win11, I am going to be one of those people.
safe dragon
many clients don't even want to update to windows 7 sp1
which would allow for 4.7 to run
cinder karma
God why
Also, what is wrong with win 11 that's so bad?
I'm actually not upset at windows 11 but also I reverted the right click menu immediately
safe dragon
it's just windows 10 with a few things made more annoying and more telemetry and AI nonsense
I use it fine but it was in no way an improvement
rotund violet
I think I'd just sound like a broken record going over all the things I dislike about Win11 again.
safe dragon
wow
cinder karma
I like it more than the previous Teams
rotund violet
It boils down to "privacy issues, ad issues, general nuisances, and some performance issues".
cinder karma
For versions of Teams it's an upgrade, still prefer Slack/Zoom
safe dragon
I'll be using teams soon for work. I've never used it beyond a few voice calls with people outside my company
cinder karma
I think I also disabled the ads
safe dragon
I like slack
cinder karma
(I still dislike outlook compared to Gmail but.)
safe dragon
have never used outlook before so no opinion
cinder karma
Can't you disable the telemetry
rotund violet
I didn't mind Outlook in the old days when it was a corporate thing. The new Outlook they're pushing on consumer Windows is aggressively hostile to privacy, wants to store all your POP/IMAP passwords in the cloud.
safe dragon
I don't like this need for everything to be cloud
rotund violet
As far as disabling all the annoyances in Win11, yes, you can, there's just a lot more of them to disable and they keep adding new ones. (They're still adding new ones to Win10 too, but at a slower rate.)
cinder karma
SharePoint is the thing that really draws my ire
rotund violet
And it's my general distaste for these practices that turns me off of updating anything Windows-related, ever.
cinder karma
So for the record my personal computer runs Ubuntu 20.04
rotund violet
Like, we pay for Windows, yet Microsoft still treats us as if it were ad-supported software.
cinder karma
Lol. But I'm not hating win11 on my work computer except for SharePoint
rotund violet
(I think everyone who's used SharePoint despises it. No arguments there.)
rotund violet
Last time I used it was damn near 15 years ago, but everything I've heard suggests it has gotten worse, not better.
safe dragon
I don't even really understand what it is beyond filesharing
cinder karma
Otoh, like, I have low expectations of a work laptop you know?
Most of the time I'm not fighting it so good enough for me!
It has enough ram to not die 😁
rotund violet
I got a very expensive, high-end laptop for work, but I can't really say more.
Ironically I also largely used Linux for work. All my Windows experience is at home.
cinder karma
Lol
safe dragon
I only use windows for work on a specced out workstation laptop. Idk about performance issues in w11 cause all the antivirus/malware programs handle that for them
cinder karma
(I can't say more about it but yeah, linux at work is great other than the fact that we have to use windows to get there.)
rotund violet
That's... one way to build it, I guess.
safe dragon
heard good things about wsl2 at least
I actually have no idea what my new job uses but considering I'll be developing in C# I'm guessing windows
rotund violet
I had a lot of trouble when I tried to use WSL on this machine and ended up having to uninstall it. But IIRC it was conflicts with things that normal people mostly don't use like Hyper-V.
cinder karma
It's not wsl2, it's basically ssh I to linux server
rotund violet
Yeah I figured it was either remote or a VMWare type deal, WSL would be too esoteric for even a hardware-oriented SharePoint-obsessed business to run.
rotund violet
For just a console? Or a remote desktop deal?
rain apex
oh are u remote into it
safe dragon
that's one abysmal rdp
pliant snow
I also ssh into crumbles home server from his ipad
safe dragon
damn
I used to work exclusively through Remote Desktop
never had any issues with speed
rotund violet
Remote desktop is an option but I always just stick to ssh terminal.
safe dragon
when that's an option yeah
rotund violet
Even though RDP wasn't actually that slow for me. Something about having a remote desktop open at the same time as my regular desktop just... bugs me. It's friction while I'm trying to work.
rain apex
if the internet is anythng less than gigabit then remote desktop is doomed
rotund violet
Eh, RDP responsiveness is rather more about latency than bandwidth.
You need some bandwidth, obviously, but once you have the minimum, adding more won't do a whole lot.
safe dragon
for me I used Remote Desktop to remote into a work pc on which everything was done. My laptop was merely a cheap shell to remote into the real pc
rain apex
yea that is true, it is just the shittier internet tend to also drop more packets
safe dragon
yeah it's more latency
i was on an adsl connection at the time of 80 mbps
latency was alright, somewhere in the 20s
never had issues
rotund violet
DSL is usually not that bad for latency, it can even handle video calls decently. Although mostly DSL is being replaced by fiber; if you're one of the unlucky ones, I'm sorry.
rotund violet
It's the cable connections that can be really unreliable; some days you'll have a 3 ms ping, other days it's 300.
cinder karma
Keep in mind we are on site
rotund violet
Of course, what atra is talking about sounds like it's a problem on the server side.
safe dragon
yeah I'd assume so
rain apex
ur remote is just intranet right
rotund violet
And by "problem" I mean "horrible catastrophe how do you even do that"
cinder karma
Predates me
rotund violet
Sounds like the experience you get with 95% packet loss.
cinder karma
Server is overloaded
safe dragon
exciting
cinder karma
Speaking of Windows telemetry
I'm surprised businesses don't bitch more
You know, their precious IP
rotund violet
It's complicated. Bitching isn't much of a strategy. Think of these big companies as aspiring nation-states, all seeking to spy on each other, prevent others from spying on them, and generally engaging in all sorts of information and cultural warfare.
Getting mad and complaining would be pointless. Complain to whom? What will they do about it?
pliant snow
If microsoft is stealing corporate data, you'll bet there will be a lot of bitching
safe dragon
they might accidentally encourage legislation that prevents them from doing the same invasive telemetry
rotund violet
If microsoft is stealing corporate data, you'll bet there will be a lot of bitch...
First they would have to know what's being stolen. Then they would have to understand what's being stolen. Then they would have to be able to prove it's being stolen. And even then, there is a fine line between theft and "telemetry", especially now with everything being cloud-based and phoning home.
pliant snow
you have a lot of faith in the validity of corporate lawsuits
rotund violet
Me? I have zero, that's my whole point and the reason why I propose the (wannabe/striver) nation-state model. There's no one policing the system. You can bitch if you want, but so what?
It's kind of the same deal as patents. Different tactics, but same strategy. There's no use complaining about patent trolls or frivolous patents; you play the arms race and try to maneuver into a MAD situation where no one wants to sue you because it could be ruinous to them as well.
fleet wren
.choose fix GPU fan, fix GPU fan, fix GPU fan, build new PC
heavy daggerBOT
Choose result: build new PC
fleet wren
WHAT
austere comet
Have fun building a new PC
fleet wren
anyway, darn, I'm looking at the GPU market right now and ugh
first crypto, now AI
I felt like the last good time to buy a GPU was 6 years ago
worn remnant
the last time i knew anything about buying GPUs, AGP was a thing (about 20 years ago)
cinder karma
What's agp
worn remnant
that's the best part, i don't remember 
i think it may have been the type of connection it used to the mainboard. i think it came in different numbers of x (like 8x)
fleet wren
yeah PCI express ate it
rotund violet
Haven't checked prices recently, but although the 4080 was really insanely expensive, it is also extremely good. It's massively overengineered and even at full load, my CPU heats up the loop faster than the GPU.
(4090 was just too big a pill to swallow when I was looking.)
Also, I bought it used for about 60% of the "retail" price at the time. I use scare quotes there because the few retailers that had it were selling it at twice the MSRP.
fleet wren
4080 is pretty tempting. I maintain that no one actually needs a 4090
though rn I'm waiting for NVIDIA to reveal their next gen before I bite
I think it's this month?
rotund violet
You're right, I could easily run everything I run right now with a 4070 or lower; but, the cooling would be a lot noisier. Also, VRAM.
They did roll out the "successor" to 4080 (I think they called it Super again?) several months ago which was just kind of... weird, spec-wise. But it should have dropped the prices on the 4080s.
earnest cairn
4080 is pretty tempting. I maintain that no one actually needs a 4090
I have a 4090 and I agree 
but it was my first big paycheck so 
outer apex
anyone can help me solve this
trying to install expanded step by step but ended up like this
fleet wren
anyone can help me solve this
trying to install expanded step by step but ended ...
#1272025932932055121 is a better location
Though it looks like you're modding Android? In which case don't expect much help unfortunately, Android modding is old and broken, and not many people is knowledgable
outer apex
<#1272025932932055121> is a better location
Though it looks like you're modding ...
ah okay
thanks
earnest cairn
my university had a requirement to have recursive fibonacci in every CS course
so we saw it like 10 times in various languages/ways
safe dragon
lmao oh god
earnest cairn
I think the ML course didnt have it, thinking of it now 
safe dragon
I only saw it once in my functional programming course in haskell
and it was like 1 slide to just explain that recursion exists
I've done enough recursive programming that I don't really understand what I struggled with when I first had to use it
candid pilot
i realized that because of precendence i think fish chances are even more complicated to calculate. should generalize pretty easily from my earlier process though
safe dragon
I fear what the fishing chance code looks like more and more every time this gets mentioned
thin estuary
i assume it's setup the same way weather is
list of entries, each having a condition, first one that is satisfied is chosen
and the conditions include a random chance
bitter kiln
i realized that because of precendence i think fish chances are even more compli...
is it not just grouping by precedence and then each subsequent group being mult. by the chance all prev fail? if so, agh
thin estuary
so if the first entry has a 20% chance, then yeah, that one has a proper 20% chance of being chosen
but any further entries have to take into account the 20% of the first entry
bitter kiln
theres two separate places chances are rolled, some fish have a 100% chance in the locations data and then have separate fish data with a different calculated chance
thin estuary
so if 2nd entry is also 20% in the condition, it's actually 20% * (100% - 20% (of the first entry))
bitter kiln
its just painful overall fr though
earnest cairn
fish probabilities suck
there's weird, useless shit with the jellies
and the probabilities can depend on player pos and fished tile
sand frost
I fear what the fishing chance code looks like more and more every time this get...
I’m pretty sure this is the right reaction
candid pilot
is it not just grouping by precedence and then each subsequent group being mult....
lemme see
well immediately, no. there is, for example, not necessarily (n-1)! shufflings where a certain item is first in the list
safe dragon
why doesn't sdv just use a weighted chance like almost every random drop table implementation ever made
candid pilot
take [(0.5, 0.75), (0.6, 0.4, 0.7), (0.125, 0.25, 1)] where () represents precedence groups. 0.5 is in first, across all random orderings (respecting precendence groups) 1! * 3! * 3! = 3!^2 = 36 (the remainder of a group needs to be multiplied, and the other precendence groups present as well)
if this were just [0.5, 0.75, 0.6, 0.4, 0.7, 0.125, 0.25, 1] then 0.5 would appear in the first place (8-1)! = 7! = 5040 times across all random shuffles
safe dragon
wtf
candid pilot
my method solves for the 5040 times one lol
thin estuary
why doesn't sdv just use a weighted chance like almost every random drop table i...
i think this is actually Pathos/CA wanting to keep the chances exactly as they were pre-1.6. the code was dumb, and they needed to make the new code also do the dumb logic
safe dragon
usually it's managers demanding such things
candid pilot
im wrong it's just a modification on the previous method
rotund violet
i think this is actually Pathos/CA wanting to keep the chances exactly as they w...
Probably this. If they updated the code, then they'd also have to go through the data and redo/rebalance all the actual chances.
hollow marsh
I was wondering what .tmx stood for, as an ancronym, and saw that it stands for Translation Memory eXchange, and is mostly used for translation softwares and localization tools. but that... doesn't seem like the right type of file format for making maps with. I know this isn't an actual gameplay modding question, but I'm curious. does anyone know why Stardew uses a translation memory format to store maps in?
rain apex
I was wondering what .tmx stood for, as an ancronym, and saw that it stands for ...
if i have to guess tmx prob stands for tiled map xml
and tsx might be tileset xml
hollow marsh
oh, so it's also a proprietary format? if they have the same file extension, then does that cause problems if, for whatever reason, a translation program that uses the Translation Memory eXchange version of tmx loaded a Tileset XML version of tmx?
rain apex
both kinds of tmx we r discussing here are xml like
i think tiled would just go shrug cant read file and thats that
since they have different top level tags
and to clarify it's not a proprietary format, as that page mentioned it's licensed with CC
hollow marsh
by 'proprietary', I meant that it's a Tiled-specific format that doesn't see a lot of use outside of the Tiled program, but you're right, I used that word incorrectly
rain apex
its not wide reaching like png ofc, but ultimately it's just a standard
anyone can go make a library for reading and writing tiled tmx 
hollow marsh
but, thank you for teaching me something new about file extensions. I thought that they were all unique, or else it would cause problems/crashes when programs were expecting one type of extension and got a different one than they expected, even if (to human eyes) the .tmx extension looks the same
cinder karma
You can associate different file extensions with various things in your OS
rain apex
its on the program's side to not explode when reading bad file
cinder karma
But that is a you decision
rain apex
whether it's file corrupted or just unexpected format
hollow marsh
But that is a you decision
oh, I am not looking to do that, this started because I was curious what .tmx meant and found a file format that matched the .tmx extension, but looked incredibly weird for storing map data, and wondered how that could be used in such a way (because I was under the misunderstanding that all file extensions had to be unique)
cinder karma
Then we have the occasional person who waltzes into #making-mods-general with a .svg renamed to .png and sad face when that crashes everything
hollow marsh
I assume it crashes because the game/SMAPI is expecting to find a .svg file and finds a .png instead and has no idea what to do with it?
cinder karma
hollow marsh
oh no, reading that exchange makes it seem like you did not have a fun time debugging that
rotund violet
Someday you are going to run out of wetware storage for all the details of random bugs you had to fix years ago.
cinder karma
I mean
I'm a cat with an oscilloscope and a power drill
Can you even be sure I have wetware
rotund violet
I thought that was a heat gun.
rain apex
how big is brain if measured in bytes 
hollow marsh
Can you even be sure I have wetware
I heard that even orange kitties have at least one brain cell
rain apex
is it even sensible question to ask
rotund violet
I've heard estimates ranging anywhere from a gigabyte to a terabyte, but it is kind of a category error.
In the same sense that LLMs don't actually store a copy of all the text they've ever read, but they still "remember" fuzzy details.
sand frost
One of my coworkers has associated .pdf with Microsoft edge
Someone did this with svg and edge, it’s the worst
It might actually be Edge screwing things up itself and not a human doing it
But it’s super annoying because the laser cutters unsurprisingly don’t appreciate freaking Microsoft edge
safe dragon
pretty sure windows 11 automatically sets pdf to edge on installation
fleet wren
I got an XFA (an old proprietary format that some govs still use for digital signing) PDF at work once on my Linux workstation, and the only software that could read it was ||Mozilla Firefox||
None of the actual PDF readers worked
So in a way I see the justification (at least for my extremely specific use case)
fleet wren
No Linux version
If I was on Windows I would have just used Adobe
rotund violet
I try to avoid Adobe at all costs, personally.
safe dragon
the one time I out of desperation tried to use Adobe acrobat for a pdf it still didn't work. I had to fill in a form and it just refused
pdf forms in general seem to be very annoying to deal with
pliant snow
Adobe really tries to gaslight people into thinking only they can open PDFs
fleet wren
None of us do
safe dragon
I once had a pdf I could fill in and if I opened it it would be filled in but then if I sent it to someone else it was empty
pliant snow
god, I'm not sure if we still do, but there's some automated build job at work that only runs like once a year that has to parse something out of a PDF. which occasionally broke down
safe dragon
I've worked with pdf generation for reports and stuff like invoices but I leave the actual pdf stuff to the reporting library
doing anything with a pdf once it exists scares me
I had to fill in a form recently and Adobe acrobat for mobile just insisted it was a read only pdf
Google drive was able to fill it in fine though
they're mysterious things
gaunt wadi
The pdf spec is literally 1000 pages
lethal walrus
So I'm gathering pdfs are not just images with pages?
pliant snow
very much not
It was spun off from the printing specifications iirc, which was a big area of computing in the day
Funnily enough, I actually converted a bunch of digital magazines I have from pdf to another image format because the PDF size was so much larger, having to render all the fancy graphics
rotund violet
The funny thing is that the "P" in "PDF" stands for "Portable".
safe dragon
that makes me wonder what a format would look like that isn't portable
drm encoded into the file?
pliant snow
.exe
rotund violet
It is slightly more portable than literally carrying a laser printer with you.
(very slightly)
safe dragon
slightly yes
rain apex
Portable means standardized here right
fleet wren
that makes me wonder what a format would look like that isn't portable
Dont some pdfs literally have executables embedded
rain apex
Doesn't need speshul program to read
safe dragon
Dont some pdfs literally have executables embedded
I wouldn't be surprised
pliant snow
I think it supports all sort of crazy extensions
manic heart
Why cant I talk in the vc
fleet wren
Why cant I talk in the vc
you need level 5
chat just a little more and you will level up
manic heart
How do I get level 5?
rain apex
PNGs r also portable so it's just ppl abusing pdf in particular
safe dragon
someone somewhere out there probably understands the pdf spec
manic heart
Ok
How much do I need
To chat?
Is there a certain amount
We need to talk to get level 5?
fleet wren
Dunno, but you can check in #governors-mansion with the /level command
rotund violet
(Read the server guide)
safe dragon
2 hours ish
rotund violet
On a happier note, I just learned that .NET 9 has partial properties, so some day we'll get to live in a world where INPC doesn't suck.
safe dragon
shame the new extensions thing was cut from this release
it's not a particularly feature rich release as far as shiny new things go
but I like it
rotund violet
Performance is a feature!
safe dragon
does beg the question whether they're going to try to introduce big new features in .net 10 aka an LTS release
safe dragon
Performance is a feature!
it is
I am very happy with the linq changes
and in general the memory usage improvements across the board
gaunt wadi
fleet wren
fun
maybe I should switch to Arch for my next PC
rain apex
do it for pacman
supple ether
Doesn't need speshul program to read
That seems right. Before pdf, the only real options were rtf or plain text.
Plain text of course had no formatting at all, and rtf had only limited layout options
rain apex
wow pdf is 2 yrs older than html what the heck
supple ether
Yeah isn't that fucked up
crystal wren
fun
maybe I should switch to Arch for my next PC
Yay!
Get it?
Okay, I'll let myself out.
strange copper
wow pdf is 2 yrs older than html what the heck
This feels cursed somehow
regal ingot
wow pdf is 2 yrs older than html what the heck
Not really. According to wikipedia, a list of HTML tags was first publicly described in late 1991 (but there was already working server and client software in 1990) and a formal specification published by the IETF in mid 1993. PDF was proposed in 1991 (as Interchange PostScript), a publicly available specification released in 1993, but remained a proprietary format controlled by Adobe until it was released as an open standard (and a royalty-free patent license) in 2008.
rotund violet
Yep, the historical trivia is that PDF traces its lineage back to PostScript which was around all the way back in the 1980s, so it completely makes sense - printing has been around a lot longer than the web has. On the other hand, if you want to go back even further, HTML/XML were not the invention of markup languages; their predecessors date all the way back to the 80s or even the 60s if you consider proprietary versions.
regal ingot
yep, PDF is a combination of font embedding, a simplified version of PS, and compression (at least in the initial version).
and HTML was intended to be an SGML application (although many of the various versions didn't quite make it to be 100% conforming SGML and they eventually gave up) plus hyperlinks, which Tim Berners-Lee had already implemented in a previous project in 1980. SGML itself was the evolution of GML created at IBM in the 1960s.
gaunt wadi
uhm, actually pdf stands for pat doggy fast and it's the motto i live by whenever i see a doggy
cinder karma
Oh my god there was almost a government shutdown????
safe dragon
how does that even happen
I think this is the third time I've heard about the US government possibly shutting down
I think I looked into why that's even possible last time but I've forgotten by now
pliant snow
It's when Congress doesn't pass the spending bill for the year, if they don't do it by the start of whatever fiscal quarter they're on, the federal government has no funding and by default shuts down
Every year they go thru this dance
safe dragon
I'm pretty sure that here when the spending bill doesn't get passed in time we just continue using the old one
fleet wren
Oh my god there was almost a government shutdown????
were you surprised it didn't
because as a non-American I thought that was normal
ivory shadow
Oh my god there was almost a government shutdown????
On one hand I wish they'd stop making a big deal out of it since it happens every year at this point, but on the other hand I wish they'd somehow make a big enough deal out of it to convince the people voting for the politicians that force us to deal with this to not vote for those people.
Not that I expect that would work
floral parcel
Guys.. remember to keep political talk off the server lol
candid pilot
this is cool
pliant snow
what is that
safe dragon
math
candid pilot
6480
pliant snow
fair
gaunt wadi
HTomgtheresadoggyimgoingovertoaskifitwantspatsML
safe dragon
yup that's what html stands for
candid pilot
.quote 6480
heavy daggerBOT
No quote found. Wow, chat more, losers.
candid pilot
this is so sad
rain apex
Is this number incremental or randomly assigned
candid pilot
incremental i think
safe dragon
I want to burn asp.net web forms to the ground
Turning the simple task of enabling or disabling a button based on which checkboxes were checked into a two hour activity
pliant snow
thats fun
safe dragon
very
but it's done
and it's the very last time I will ever touch this application
🎉
presumably the last time I will ever touch web forms
I hope so at least
cinder karma
You find out your next life us webforms
Just webforms
You wake up in a life where there is nothing else
safe dragon
True hell
pliant snow
You would think installing the exact same programs with the same configs on my desktop and laptop would give the same results, but you would be wrong
safe dragon
I've long given up such thoughts
pliant snow
I just want blur effects on both, is that too much to ask
safe dragon
yeah
pliant snow
😔
rain apex
have you considered becoming myopic
safe dragon
why put the blur effect on the pc when you can put it in your own vision
pliant snow
smear vaseline on my retenas
strange copper
writing a nice dynamic programming solution for interview practice on a question tagged "dynamic programming"... and then looking at other solutions because mine was comparatively slow just to see that return n % 2 == 0 is an alternate accurate solution in one line
pliant snow
Dynamic programming to check if number is even
strange copper
it was a game-playing question where both players play optimally and I couldn't figure out that the way to play optimally was just to pick 1 every time 😭
lethal walrus
The only other way I could think of doing it is just division by subtraction in a loop
cinder karma
writing a nice dynamic programming solution for interview practice on a question...
Which q
strange copper
Which q
#1025 divisor game, easy difficulty
i had it just giving me random DP problems and I feel so betrayed that i didn't even need the DP
safe dragon
assuming the compiler doesn't just optimize this away(which it probably will) it's technically faster to bitshift to the right and then back and then check if the value is still equal to the original
than a modulo 2
cinder karma
Any half decent compiler will do that
rain apex
is it sensible to do like
public abstract class Foo<T> : IFoo where T : IBar
the T is used for type of a particular field
safe dragon
I've seen that used before at least
in a generic model where the generic type is the type of the Id (long or int)
thin estuary
yeah, looks sensible to me
rain apex
thank im glad i didnt do any crimes
safe dragon
today in weird ass bugs
the nuget package version we were using to validate jwt access tokens only worked on select computers
it didn't work on my pc or the server but worked fine on another dev's pc
with the exact same access token, signing keys and everything
updating the nuget package fixed it
idk what could possibly ever be computer dependent for validation a jwt signature
everything we could think of was identical between our pcs
even the exact same version of windows
ivory shadow
I am so exhausted by JWTs existing.
In theory, they're fine. In practice, so many people just use them in completely wrong ways.
Web devs discovering jwt be like:
"We don't need to do the existing auth layer stuff if we just validate the jwt."
"We're using this jwt like an oauth access token so it should remain valid for hours if not days."
"Invalidation? What's that?"
ivory shadow
Yes the James Webb Tokens
worn remnant
welp, gonna be calling these Jason Webb Tokens for a hot minute now
runic plaza
guys can someone recommend a software language that is easy to learn and will help me learn other languages?
ivory shadow
But yeah. People will be like "we can use jwt for access tokens, that way we don't need a database" but then you need a database anyways because JWTs don't come with any sort of invalidation built in aside from expiration time.
So you aren't saving yourself a database query at all, and also your access token is now like a kilobyte or more in size because every jwt is enormous
cinder karma
....
safe dragon
bold suggestion
cinder karma
🐍
rain apex
no i think its important for the youngins to know what pointers are
ivory shadow
C
There I bolded the suggestion.
C is good to know but but really a good starter language.
safe dragon
the standard answers for easy to learn programming languages are Javascript or python but I started with C# and it was totally fine
ivory shadow
C# is good to start, honestly.
rain apex
yea and it'll help if you have something to aim for while learning, like making a mod
safe dragon
Javascript is a good choice if you're strictly going for web development but otherwise I'd stay away from it as your first language
ivory shadow
You don't have to worry about manual memory management, but it still has other useful qualities like a static type system
safe dragon
this server is naturally going to be pretty biased towards C#(including me)
I do think it's genuinely a solid starter language though especially if you want to get into either game development or web server stuff
ivory shadow
Yeah, c# is solid. It can get very complex, but it doesn't need to be that complex.
You still have fairly normal syntax without meaningful whitespace, which is my biggest issue with Python for beginners
strange copper
It's also kinda just better Java imo and I started with Java and turned out fine
rain apex
hating hours
ivory shadow
You have actual types that aren't a dumpster fire, which is my biggest issue with js/ts.
strange copper
I'll +1 C#
safe dragon
But yeah. People will be like "we can use jwt for access tokens, that way we don...
assuming you're not just using an auth provider like aws cognito I'm not sure how one could ever think they can avoid storing some state in their database
ivory shadow
assuming you're not just using an auth provider like aws cognito I'm not sure ho...
Web devs. shrug
runic plaza
my only experience so far has been json
safe dragon
json is going to be a part of what you work with regardless at some point in the future tbh
pliant snow
all these C# advocates digging their claws in...
safe dragon
yes
rain apex
json isn't a programming language
runic plaza
Well, I'll ask one more question, it's a bit silly, but can c# be learned by watching videos and experimenting without a course?
ivory shadow
Do you even accept lab view, atra
cinder karma
You would stay very employed
rain apex
idk atra ive only ever seen you complaining about labview
is employment really worth the angish
cinder karma
Last week a fourth person in this 30 person company told me
ivory shadow
atra has two modes:
- Knitting
- LabView problems
safe dragon
Well, I'll ask one more question, it's a bit silly, but can c# be learned by wat...
yes. I think that's honestly true in general for programming. A drive to just try and do things will outweigh anything a structured course can do
pliant snow
everyone here will scoff and be offended, but python or javascript are overwhelmingly used in a lot of spaces and will set you up to work on a large number of projects
cinder karma
"I can work in labview but I really fucking don't want to."
rain apex
Well, I'll ask one more question, it's a bit silly, but can c# be learned by wat...
just make a mod tbh
safe dragon
everyone here will scoff and be offended, but python or javascript are overwhelm...
nah you're right. I mean I'm sure most of us have to work with at least one of em sometimes
ivory shadow
everyone here will scoff and be offended, but python or javascript are overwhelm...
Not saying those languages don't have their place. I am saying those languages have fundamental issues that I think makes them bad for learning.
rain apex
everyone here will scoff and be offended, but python or javascript are overwhelm...
my animosity towards python comes from the fact that i have to write python instead of cpp
runic plaza
just make a mod tbh
should I look at how it is done with applications like ILSpy and do it? because I don't have a single idea about c#
ivory shadow
JS especially does some really stupid things that could give someone bad habits
pliant snow
I kinda get that, and while I think statically typed languages give the fundamentals better, I think one with an abundance of resources and versatility is worth more
ivory shadow
Any language that silently and automatically type casts between string and float at the drop of a hat should not be used to learn
safe dragon
the best answer is just "use whatever seems to be used for the thing you want to do with it" but that of course relies on you already knowing what that is
rain apex
but for first language it's better to pick something that punish u for bad spaget
safe dragon
the biggest barrier to programming in my experience is just having to motivation to get through that initial learning curve
pliant snow
My very first programming course was in Java
safe dragon
which language it is is secondary
rain apex
should I look at how it is done with applications like ILSpy and do it? because ...
most mods are open source so u can go look at those, i think there's also code academy intro stuff
pliant snow
we used some drawing library, and we did some neat projects, I liked it
ivory shadow
Yeah, a lot of beginner courses are Java. And C# is just ms flavored better Java.
pliant snow
At the end of the semester, I wanted to show off what I had made, and realized I had no idea how to actually make the project portable
That realization turned me off for probalby 4 years from programming
rain apex
runic plaza
most mods are open source so u can go look at those, i think there's also code a...
Got it.
thank you to everyone who helped
safe dragon
I don't think I'd ever used the publish option for C# till work
pliant snow
All languages kinda suffer from the same thing, and the prof probably should've taught us how to do it, but I only got back into it once I found bash and python, which let me run things more immediately with much less hassle. The actual fundamentals I picked up as I went
safe dragon
python is easy to run yeah. Just drag the .py onto the pc and assuming it doesn't have dependencies you're good...
ivory shadow
Good luck if it does have dependencies tho
Python package management is best described as "install Python again and install different packages"
pliant snow
speaking of which, I need to check out uv
idk if it really has many benefits, but people seem excited about it
worn remnant
doesn't pip have some chroot jail/venv nonsense capability for this exact reason?
ivory shadow
Yeah, and it's nonsense.
worn remnant
"fuck it, just make a new environment"
ivory shadow
Even js has better package management
pliant snow
linux distros are moving towards not even letting you use pip anymore lol
ivory shadow
Not that node_modules started off great but now that js package managers are just using links to a global cache the performance is way better. And you never have to worry about dependency pollution between projects
pliant snow
worn remnant
lmao another pip??
ivory shadow
A second pip has struck the site-packages.
pliant snow
We've got three different versionf of python installed on our work computers, which irritates me to no end
safe dragon
I remember spending hours once cause a script was finding some random other python executable somewhere which was the wrong version causing it to fail
sand frost
idk pip always works for me
i do admit probably not using virtual environments is some kind of python crime
safe dragon
I remember spending hours once cause a script was finding some random other pyth...
that was back on windows tho
sand frost
everyone here will scoff and be offended, but python or javascript are overwhelm...
I'm not offended but I think people should be aware that both of these languages have the risk of teaching bad habits. if you go on to learn other languages then probably it will turn out fine.
pliant snow
I remember spending hours once cause a script was finding some random other pyth...
This is why they recommend using virtual environments
sand frost
but like, i feel like if I didn't know about types, half of what python did would be some kind of mystic nonsense
safe dragon
half of what python does is mystic nonsense
pliant snow
For arch, I just install the python package I need as a distro package (which someone told me was frowned upon, but idk) or do it in docker
worn remnant
if i need to run a python program, i reconsider my needs
sand frost
just like how right now on duolingo I'm muddling my way through nouns of having gender in russian, but duolingo obviously doesn't tell me this, so I just hope I get the right version of "this" out of the 3 choices each time
ivory shadow
This is why they recommend using virtual environments
This is why any and every Python app distributed on Windows distributes its own copy of Python.
sand frost
i feel like separately windows is bullshit about python
i always find it so frustrating while on my mac it Just Works
lethal walrus
i feel like separately windows is bullshit about python
There's by default a python.exe in path...
Which opens the Microsoft store
pliant snow
Yeah, somehow Python seems even more bizarre on windows, in a way it isn't really on mac or linux
safe dragon
just like how right now on duolingo I'm muddling my way through nouns of having ...
shout out to duolingo removing their grammar explanations and then also removing the discussion forums so now you literally don't have any way to get this information without going to a different website
Windows and python seemed hostile
never worked well for me
I think the very first time I ever tried to install python is the time I learnt what path variables are
cause windows did not believe python existed despite me installing it
rain apex
I'm glad to be anaconda free never understood what that's about
strange copper
One time I had cpu version of pytorch on windows and tried to uninstall it to have the GPU version and the only way I got it to work was to just install the next version of python 💀
rain apex
Autodesk needs to stop shipping their own python with stuff 
safe dragon
soz autodesk will now ship two versions of python instead cause you asked that
pliant snow
matplotlib takes ages to build in pip, yet with uv it seems instant
ivory shadow
Wait uv is a package manager? I thought you meant uv the high performance networking library
pliant snow
nop
ivory shadow
Why would they reuse the name
pliant snow
its a new fangled pip replacement
ivory shadow
That's so dumb
pliant snow
that would explain why there was a uv and python-uv Arch packages lol
safe dragon
uv mapping has nothing to do with ultraviolet alas
apparently uv mapping is called that cause w, x, y and z were already taken
ivory shadow
why are so many things called uv
safe dragon
the standards diverge so far for uv that they all do something in completely different fields
pliant snow
its like how they apparently wanted to call wayland the Y window manager, but it was already taken
im going to switch bouncer to using uv, we'll see how this goes
safe dragon
suddenly everyone is properly getting their roles
pliant snow
There's been an issue with that actually that I still haven't figured out
If users who joined ages ago, but never spoke, now speak only once, they aren't getting villager. It seems the second time they post they do get it
[2;34mDoes [2;31mthis [2;32mwork [2;33mon [2;35mmobile [2;36myet?[0m[2;35m[0m[2;33m[0m[2;32m[0m[2;31m[0m[2;34m[0m
No
rain apex
Do you mean colored syntax or just code block
ivory shadow
Oh interesting, ansi color codes work on desktop now?
pliant snow
They have for a while now
I wanted to use them more for bot stuff, but they werent and apparently still aren't supported on mobile
rain apex
What's the % breakdown for mobile vs pc users for this server? Do we know
ivory shadow
Huh, I probably haven't seen it because of no mobile support.
pliant snow
I think the discord stats do show that
do i still have access to those...
no
booo
ivory shadow
Yeah, server insights does show device stats.
pliant snow
why dont they give me unrestricted access to everything smh
pliant snow
i am server owner after all
safe dragon
I use both
ivory shadow
Now that I know ansi color codes are a thing I feel tempted to write a bot for something like
[1;34;47m West of House Score: 0 Moves: 0 [1;37;40m
ZORK I: The Great Underground Empire
Copyright (c) 1981, 1982, 1983 Infocom, Inc. All rights reserved.
ZORK is a registered trademark of Infocom, Inc.
Revision 88 / Serial number 840726
West of House
You are standing in an open field west of a white house, with a boarded front
door.
There is a small mailbox here.
>
It would be interesting to write a bot that's a wrapper around zork
adds to todo list
rain apex
what about king's quest
ivory shadow
There are open source interpreters for Zork's scripting language, should be easy enough to wrap one of them.
Hmm. King's Quest could work too. The bot would just have to upload an image, but that shouldn't be difficult.
You don't exactly need 60 fps for King's Quest
pliant snow
There were bots where people got gameboy emulators of some sort running
text-based ones would be more fun tho i think
safe dragon
surely discord doesn't just allow randomly inserted iframes
pliant snow
I dont think so
gaunt wadi
uv proudly backed by 3 venture capital firms that invest deeply in crypto and defense startups
safe dragon
they're heroically draining money from firms that would've otherwise used that money for crypto
pliant snow
The dream
pliant snow
I also would love to have php and nginx in the same docker image, but idk if thats worth it
hardy jewel
i am server owner after all
fantastic, you're now forced back onto the team properly 😌
safe dragon
Gratz aquo
violet gale
HUH?
violet gale
that's... kinda neat
hard cradle
feels like youre discords labrat
violet gale
I GUESS?
but this is like, a relatively new account that's so weird, is it because of nitro
fleet wren
maybe it's a/b testing
hard cradle
oh yeah discord picks random nitro users for new features
violet gale
man, i paid money to be a lab rat
rain apex
What does going right mean
hard cradle
so far i havent figured out if there is an opt in/out
rain apex
violet gale
I CAN MAKE CIRCULAR LOGIC
rain apex
Can't believe avi usurped the server
safe dragon
hmmm
hard cradle
much better than to link a message like before tbh
safe dragon
violet gale
i do like that it has a full show
rain apex
I suspect this isn't how it's supposed to look
hard cradle
....i think
austere comet
man, i paid money to be a lab rat
Congrats, you've unlocked forwarding (I was equally as confused when I noticed it today too, we're both lab rats in discord's game 😔)
rain apex
But I haven't updated phone discord in like 2 yrs
safe dragon
if you forward a forward I guess it still looks the same
frosty echo
much better than to link a message like before tbh
Kind of, depends if it's just one message you're interested in
hard cradle
true, true
safe dragon
I'm also a lab rat this time
austere comet
Labrats unite
violet gale
atra's also a labrat
rain apex
feels like youre discords labrat
Is this 3 emote thing new too
safe dragon
nah I think that was already a thing
violet gale
it came about like a week ago
rain apex
austere comet
I've had the 3 emote thing for a while so not new at least to me
violet gale
i was like oh, yknow, that's useful
you're correct, i do use those 3 emotes too much changes it up
safe dragon
I think I've had it for months
fleet wren
wait hasnt it always been there like for months
rain apex
Idk I only saw it yesterday when I restarted my discord
After 2~3 weeks of ignoring the green update button
devout vault
Only 2-3 weeks?
fleet wren
on Linux Discord force feeds you update and won't launch if it's outdated
violet gale
much like slack, i refuse to update until told
austere comet
Peasants, my max is ,checks notes, less than an hour
violet gale
i have that "gotta have all my notifications gone" kinda problem