programmers-off-topic

[ivory shadow]

That isn't an error

Without any context I have no idea what that is, but an error would typically log a stack trace and a somewhat useful message about what the error is rather than just a couple of random variables

That sounds dangerously on topic

[dapper sinew]

deleted

sorry about that

[ivory shadow]

It's fine, I mostly just am joking.

[deep drum]

@dapper sinew just from checking out the repo, npm start just aliases to node index.js. The instructions seem confusing to me though...
Normally an extra set of -- indicates to pass everything after to STDIN, I'm not sure why you'd need another set after that...
In any case, just doing node index.js is probably sufficient.
Have you tried removing a set of the -- and just doing npm run start -- --conversionType=hair --isColorable --authorName=NAMEOFAUTHOR --hairDescriptor=ADJECTIVE?

[dapper sinew]

Yep, tried with them without with extra. only thing that worked was node-ing it

which i didnt wanna do cause it was different than the instructions

[deep drum]

nah it's exactly the same at the end, dw about it

[ivory shadow]

You need the second -- because npm start calls npm run convert and not node index.js

You don't need a third

[deep drum]

oh that makes sense, I assumed npm was just smart enough to redirect it but I guess that's not as intuitive

[ivory shadow]

It might be the third -- screwing up the argument parsing

[dapper sinew]

hey it worked for me just not for the person i well helping , thankfully the node worked for them

[ivory shadow]

npm is fuckin garbage

lmao

[dapper sinew]

i was helping Bae with there sprite sheet stuff if you wanna know context

[deep drum]

yarn lyfe

[ivory shadow]

pnpm is love, pnpm is life

Yarn is also gross and old

[deep drum]

what does pnpm do so much better?

[ivory shadow]

It installs packages via symlink

[dapper sinew]

obligatory neofetch-es :3

[ivory shadow]

pnpm is faster and uses less disk space than both yarn and npm

[deep drum]

I can get behind that

I've heard about pnpm but I'm lazy lmao

[dapper sinew]

wait you can symlink on windows?

[ivory shadow]

Yes.

[dapper sinew]

feel like i bugged ya, sorry if i did.

[ivory shadow]

You didn't.

[sonic mirage]

Meanwhile a client of ours' site is still using PHP 5 and PrototypeJS

Classic healthcare industry tech adoption rate

[safe dragon]

Retail software and healthcare software 🤝

I love seeing those screens at a restaurant that's used to assign people tables and it looks like it's running on MS DOS

[sonic mirage]

When I worked at HHGregg (maybe 15 years ago) they had POS like that with the blue screen and everything; printed to a literal dot matrix printer with the tear-away strips on the sides

Before I left they'd at least upgraded past that, but there is something satisfying about those printers for some reason

[dire kayak]

from experience most companies dont update anything technology related from when they first start

[sonic mirage]

Even though the noise is basically a series of screeches

[dire kayak]

yes but difficult

[safe dragon]

we had a few customers complain because we recently(like a year ago) stopped supporting windows XP for our POS

[dire kayak]

lol

[safe dragon]

we replace and upgrade their cash registers for free

they just didn't want it

[dire kayak]

they stayed for this tbh

[safe dragon]

a good reason

[cinder karma]

It's a beautiful hill

[dire kayak]

⛰️

[cinder karma]

The oscilloscope runs windows 98 btw

Real hot girl shit

[safe dragon]

... an oscilloscope runs windows?

[cinder karma]

Yes!

[pliant snow]

Thats cursed

[cinder karma]

Successfully soldered wire to a surface trace

[ivory shadow]

Sitting here looking at SMAPI.Web and thinking about adding modern front end stuff to it, again.

[cinder karma]

does anyone want to horrify me with more Angular?

I also don't like Lua very much

[pliant snow]

gasp

[strange copper]

i want to but the only angular i ever wrote was for work and like. NDAs and intellectual property and things 😔

angular is cool in theory but the boilerplate is REAL

to add a new component I had to edit 3 or 4 separate files just to convince angular it was real

[cinder karma]

Once upon a time I did django

I still love django for the kinda bs | query notation tbh

not that it was...good. It was just bs enough to be fun

[strange copper]

i remember django, when i was younger i tried to learn it but unfortunately i was a child and did not understand things like "relational data model" and "api endpoint" 💀

i started a project in it when i did understand the core concepts and it made more sense then. it was kinda fun although I'm not sure i'd pick it over just using a generic sql database

[cinder karma]

Yeah, it wasn't, like, serious Actual Work things, it was "a bunch of us derping around in college"

[strange copper]

what kind of things did you guys build?

[cinder karma]

The fun one was a site where we competed about having better sleep schedules (don't ask)

the less fun one was student group stuff

[ivory shadow]

If you do anything Final Fantasy 14 adjacent, the website FFXIV Teamcraft https://ffxivteamcraft.com/ is an Angular app and wow does it chug

It has gotten better but I still had a tab just casually sitting at 30% CPU usage for no reason when I went to it just now to make sure it was still Angular.

[sonic mirage]

The SPA-all-the-things people always struck me as trying to fix something that wasn't broken

[strange copper]

yeah, why do i need a rOuter. we had those. they're called anchor tags

(there's probably a reason somebody came up with it)

[ivory shadow]

It's all about load times and responsiveness.

[strange copper]

ohhh

our angular project was so slow that i don't think the router mattered

[ivory shadow]

If someone clicks a link and it's a normal page load, then the browser does whatever until the new page loads, and it renders that.

If someone clicks a link in a SPA you can show a fancy "how much money did we just pay our designers to design a loading throbber" animation or whatever

Making things load faster, or at least appear to load faster, is good for user retention and the like.

[sonic mirage]

We have a client that had us replace all the "Loading..." modals with an animated tachometer because they said people didn't like to be told that something was loading lol

[strange copper]

would they prefer a blank screen?

or the grayscale animated placeholder thing maybe?

[ivory shadow]

They would prefer we violate the speed of light limitation and instantly load everything.

[strange copper]

simply get a faster internet connection

[sonic mirage]

Well the client liked how I rigged up the tachometer, so I guess if they're happy that's all the really matters. They gave me a JSON file that holds SVG data and it gets animated with this Lottie JS library

[ivory shadow]

lmao

[sonic mirage]

They're racing related, so the tachometer is at least relevant

[ivory shadow]

"How do we make our loading faster?"
"Let's add a 13.7 kB (gzipped) JavaScript library for drawing a loading animation."

Thank you for giving me a giggle

[cinder karma]

(It's only a nanosecond a foot, how slow can it be?)

(I'm kidding haha)

[sonic mirage]

Their pages are like a MB or two, so 13kB is nothing

actually more like a MB or ten, depending on the page

[ivory shadow]

[sonic mirage]

Look, we do our best, but there's only such much I can squeeze into the work we do for them lol

[ivory shadow]

Of course.

[cinder karma]

How much is ads?

Tbh 1mb is a not that nice image anywyas

[sonic mirage]

They give us the complicated features to implement, and then they get some cheap devs from who-knows-where to crudely implement the "faster" ones, and then we have to re-write half of those guys stuff so it would've maybe been cheaper to have us do it in the first place

Just lots of large images and lots of random JS/CSS that isn't bundled together

Their sites are CMS-based, so we can only stop them from shooting themselves in the foot so much, esp when they won't let us look into why the built-in optimizer doesn't work

[ivory shadow]

I definitely want to set up bundle-y stuff for SMAPI's website.

Rewrite all the CSS with tailwind or unocss, add a dark theme.

Update the JS dependencies. Ditch jQuery.

[cinder karma]

J query is a name of heard before

[pliant snow]

Its an ancient word meaning "early 2010s website"

[ivory shadow]

Also late 2000s.

Of course back then it was more useful, since the JS DOM stuff wasn't as advanced.

[sonic mirage]

I only see Tailwind making sense from an optimization standpoint if you can set up your whole pipeline with tree shaking to get rid the 10000 classes your site isn't using from it

[ivory shadow]

... yes? That's what I'd do.

It's pretty simple to set up.

[cinder karma]

Tree shaking is a fun term

[sonic mirage]

I thought I'd read most people didn't do that, I guess

[ivory shadow]

Need to make a Stardew mod that makes CSS and JavaScript fall on your head when you shake trees.

[cinder karma]

Someone should make the flexbox game a minigame in stardew

[sonic mirage]

Most of the sites we work on have jQuery, or when we build one new for a client it's usually jQuery plus Bootstrap built from SCSS as the basis. For people that want to get rid of jQuery, do you need a new library to simplify AJAX and DOM traversal, or do you just use built-ins now? I know DOM traversal you can do alright these days, though not always as fluidly as with jQuery

[ivory shadow]

It really depends what exactly you want to do.

[cinder karma]

What I want to do is avoid Javascript

[dapper sinew]

Are those "learn blank in black hours* vids good? I wanna learn C# basics but don't know where to Begin

[strange copper]

most c# basics vids are probably pretty similar (?) I feel like most people agree on what the basics in programming consist of (variables, control flow, yadda yadda)

learning something is better than learning nothing! most of your learning, at least in my experience, is gonna come from actually getting your hands dirty and writing code

[dapper sinew]

oh definitely, i learn by doing.... but i cant really do something i dont yet know, which is having me run in circles of wanting to learn and do but how do you do something that doesnt exist in your mind

[supple ether]

honestly the concepts are more important than the code itself

if jumping straight into code is intimidating you could always just start with Scratch or something similar

just... not graph/flowchart coding. that doesn't teach you much

[safe dragon]

you mean modern enterprise cloud solutions for retail

[dapper sinew]

i have no more windows

i have decided to try and turn my main PC into a server

[dapper sinew]

i once again, make a public announcement

on how much i hate pip

it sucks(a lot), thats all

[cinder karma]

I've wanted to try uv

[lethal walrus]

oh that's cool, ryujinx's lan stuff works with stardew

[supple ether]

oh wow

[lethal walrus]

hmm
i wonder how hard something like geysermc but for stardew would be

[dapper sinew]

Reinstalling Linux again... Bricked my login screen somehow

[safe dragon]

you’ve been breaking things a lot lmao

[dapper sinew]

Yes

I break everything I think about eventually

I will get a functional system one day though

DETERMINATION

[safe dragon]

can’t say I’ve ever broken my login screen(or display manager as those are called for some godforsaken reason)

[supple ether]

I wish you could directly use properties as delegates when they fit the signature instead of having to resort to reflection

[dapper sinew]

I can break anything it seems

[lethal walrus]

oh this idea might be more difficult, packets are just binary stuff

[safe dragon]

I have had a broken display manager before but that was just broken from the start due to weird incompatiblity issues while I was installing it

[dapper sinew]

I literally just tried to turn on Bluetooth

That's all it took

[safe dragon]

I don’t even know how you did that

but good job

[dapper sinew]

I turned it on got errors

Rebooted

That's all

[pliant snow]

maybe your drive is bad

[dapper sinew]

I hope not

[lethal walrus]

why are packets unreadable :(

[dapper sinew]

Wait I still can't, so It must be a hardware thing

Nooo

[pliant snow]

Maybe a more all-in-one distro would work

[dapper sinew]

I thought that's what Arch was

IDK much about distros

[gaunt wadi]

I managed to do this once, upgrading from plasma 5 to 6 was failing due to file conflicts, so I just deleted the conflicting files. That was not the right move, and basically the entire UI was broken - I could still login/use the desktop, but the colors were wild and the spacing was broken and some buttons didn't do anything, etc

Thankfully the arch forums are great and I got a response to my post in an hour explaining how to locate the missing files, locate the package that provides the missing files, and re-install it

[pliant snow]

Was it a qt5 to qt6 thing

[pliant snow]

Arch is a great distro with a high amount of customization. However, with high customization comes less of it set up by default. There are others that "just work" more, like Mint or Fedora

[pliant snow]

There was a bug in sddm that i never figured out the cause for and had to switch away

[dapper sinew]

I uhhh messed up badly I think

Would you be able/willing to help

[dapper sinew]

Omg a reboot fixed it I didn't lose my drive

[safe dragon]

probably should make sure nothing on that drive isn't something you have a copy of elsewhere

[pliant snow]

what happened

[dapper sinew]

i encrypted a partition and then couldnt delete it

so i thought i lost the drive

[crystal wren]

Oh no. The time has finally come where I think I need to transpile something.

[cinder karma]

....actually I wonder if thr and gate was intentional in android

[crystal wren]

That... wouldn't surprise me.

And for reference, the thing I need to transpile:

foreach (var animal in from animal in animals from tile in grid.Where(tile => CanPetAnimal(tile, animal)) select animal) animal.pet(player);

[cinder karma]

Why do you need to transpile that?

[crystal wren]

I need that pet call to not happen to MEEP's farm animals.

[cinder karma]

What harm do you get by marking all your animals as pet already when you spawn them?

Honest question

[crystal wren]

Won't help here, unfortunately!

[cinder karma]

....weird

[pliant snow]

what does transpile mean in this context

[crystal wren]

Or I don't think it'll help?

[cinder karma]

Also we're on topic so we should scram back to #making-mods-general

[crystal wren]

Yeah, I was going to just delve into the transpiling in general here and call it off-topic, but we're back to Stardew now!

[scarlet hollow]

Could anyone more familiar than me with Elixir please explain what is happening here and why?

iex(14)> a = ["string", 123, "second"]
["string", 123, "second"]

iex(15)> a |> Enum.filter(fn _ -> false end) |> Enum.map(&(&1))
[]

iex(16)> a |> Enum.with_index() |> Enum.filter(fn {_, index} -> index in 1..1 end) |> Enum.map(&elem(&1, 0))
~c"{"

iex(17)> a |> Enum.with_index() |> Enum.filter(fn {_, index} -> index in 2..2 end) |> Enum.map(&elem(&1, 0))
["second"]

iex(18)> a |> Enum.with_index() |> Enum.filter(fn {_, index} -> index in 1..1 end)
[{123, 1}]

iex(19)> a |> Enum.with_index() |> Enum.filter(fn {_, index} -> index in 2..2 end)
[{"second", 2}]

What is the sigil that pops out specifically when I filter down to the integer list element?

oh my god it's interpreting it as an ASCII character literal

But... why?????

[lethal walrus]

oo elixir

looks interesting

[scarlet hollow]

Oh my god it goes deeper

iex(23)> [123]
~c"{"

Got it.
It's literally just an iex terminal display quirk. If iex sees a list containing only printable bytes, it displays them as a ~c"" charlist sigil... but the underlying data is still a list. Bruh.
https://stackoverflow.com/a/40324994/

[safe dragon]

ah you ran into one of the classics

the iex repl interpreting your list as a char list

part of anyone's elixir discovery process

yeah it's only a visual display thing done by iex and stuff like IO.inspect

it's a little annoying in very niche scenarios

[scarlet hollow]

It’s crazy that I never ran into it before now lmfao. Originally all of this was obscured behind a struct and passed through case statements, so it was happening, but I never saw it lol

Refactoring and manually testing each of my changes was when I ran into it above

[gaunt wadi]

var animal in from animal in animals from tile in grid

insert that one starbucks meme

[safe dragon]

idk the Starbucks meme but I hate that c# has this secondary syntax for Linq queries that's used here

I find it hard to read and it just looks totally out of place with the rest of the entire language

[ivory shadow]

LINQ syntax never feels good to me.

Linq, the methods? Yes. Linq, the weird SQL-in-the-middle-of-perfectly-good-C#? No.

[safe dragon]

yeah the methods are good

in fact I love them

but the funky sql syntax I wish they never added

even when using LINQ with Entity Framework where they are actually turned into sql queries after. Hell that might be worse cause it gives the false impressive that that's actually the sql code it'd be turned into which is generally not true

[cinder karma]

What Starbucks meme

[crystal wren]

I'm as out of the loop as you here!

[strange copper]

i think maybe any of those photos where the drink order on the cup is just obscenely long?

[leaden marsh]

I am unaware of this meme

[cinder karma]

Cat come back here and explain a meme to us uninformed fools

[gaunt wadi]

my memes are too powerful for you all

#images-and-memes message

[strange copper]

genuinely how do I fight the scope creep when building something. I fix one thing or implement one thing and suddenly I have 5 more (mostly) related things I want to pack into the release

[queen garnet]

I have never seen this and I don't think I want to

oh god I scrolled up

[ivory shadow]

I also hate how Linq expressions blur the lines between stuff that happens on the database and stuff that happens not on the database, if you're using some of .NET's database stuff.

There should be very very very obvious lines between the two.

[shadow wing]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/722642036980711455/1236536907110809661/y0f9mbp786yc1.webp?ex=66385e3c&is=66370cbc&hm=1269e2a5896c93091d2f4f5f4716dfe7e0dab0de36308a3bbc8c339aeb600e1c&

[ivory shadow]

So... Lua.

[mossy bane]

Hello there!

I am mesmerized and inspired by Stardew Valley, and I want to make a game of similar design. Could you suggest which engine would be better to create a game like this today? I know Stardew Valley was made using the XNA framework, but that was back in 2014. Now, I just want to know which game engine would be better suited for making a game with a similar design to Stardew Valley

[safe dragon]

stardew valley is both visually and mechanically fairly straight forward so it doesn't matter that much which you'd pick. I'd say try a few out with something simple and see which feels good to use to you

there's the full fledged engines like Godot and unity or the more XNA style code only engines like monogame(spiritual successor to XNA), löve2d and many others

even something like rpg/game maker could absolutely be used

the importance of choosing the "right" engine is often exaggerated a lot and my advice is to not worry about it too much

as long as it supports the platforms you want the game to be playable on

[mossy bane]

i see that was helpfull thank you

[crystal wren]

I'd say it comes down to whether you enjoy making the Little Things™️ yourself.

The entity management, the animation systems, the level/map loading, etc.. If you do, something more like MonoGame/XNA for C#, SFML for C++, etc., and Godot/Unity if you don't like making the little things.

[cinder karma]

Shouldn't you be able to find libraries for things in c#?

[crystal wren]

Also, this is a fun comment to get.

[safe dragon]

there's libraries for anything

[lethal walrus]

what is this on (is it a mod, or a program thing?)

[safe dragon]

of course if you're more comfortable with programming or know what you want you can just pick and choose specific libraries and ignore "engines" completely. It'd be totally valid to just use raylib or something and maybe add some ecs library on top

[crystal wren]

It's MEEP!

[lethal walrus]

ah

[safe dragon]

can't believe you're publishing viruses

[crystal wren]

Especially ones that execute from within a zip file prior to extraction.

I must be a damned genius.

[safe dragon]

it's a zip bomb

[lethal walrus]

a whole two people said it's a virus :O

[crystal wren]

...there's another one?!

Okay, this is clearly not people having actual problems at this point.

[cinder karma]

DH, are you uploading viruses like Pathos? #making-mods-general message

[lethal walrus]

latest comment

[lethal walrus]

very rude of nexus to inject a virus and manage to keep the hashes the same

[crystal wren]

Huh, interesting...

[safe dragon]

quite impressive though

[lethal walrus]

mhm

lots of computing needed for that#

[safe dragon]

that's what half their infrastructure budget goes towards

[crystal wren]

Okay, it's not the same problem Pathos was having. The hashes are the same between the zip on Nexus and what I originally uploaded.

[cinder karma]

sometimes I wish C# had a default formatter, because

well

format this for me plz

[safe dragon]

yeah I appreciate languages that have an opinionated formatter as part of the language tooling

I don't feel strongly about specific formatting choices but I do like everyone using the same formatting

[crystal wren]

Yeah, like allowing me to do this:

if (thing)
  if (otherThing)
  {
    // Do stuff
  }

That's just horrible.

[safe dragon]

ugly

really that should just be 1 if statement

unless there's an else of course

[cinder karma]

it's really

if (thingie)
   if (otherThing) { 
    }
else if (more)
   Console.WriteLine("hiiii")
else switch....

[safe dragon]

else switch...

[cinder karma]

yup!

[safe dragon]

does that work...

I've never seen that in my life

I guess it should work...

I'd cry tho

[safe dragon]

love the outofmemoryexception

better pass a 1 or 5

[cinder karma]

(it can't even be caught)

[safe dragon]

public Task Something() 
{
    try 
    {
        return TaskThatCanFail();
    }
    catch
    {
        //This try/catch is useless and will never be hit
    }
}

this one I’ve seen a few times in production code

people forgetting when task actually runs and thinking they can catch them in situations where they can’t

[cinder karma]

I like how this regularly turns into "modders horrify Crumble with arcane c#"

[safe dragon]

some of it just different coding standards than I'm used to (like using this. everywhere)

[crystal wren]

And now I'm investigating code signing certificates that aren't prohibitively expensive.

[safe dragon]

ah code signing is a fun one

we've had company wide panic twice within the time I've been here due to signing certificates expiring

[pliant snow]

FYI if you're an arch user, Python 3.12 is in core now, so you gotta rebuild your AUR packages to not use 3.11

[cinder karma]

one of my real annoyances with C# is that it doesn't give special treatment to the .Dispose method

I'd love to be able to make a field readonly but still be able to null it in a .Dispose

[ivory shadow]

Yeah, that would be great.

[safe dragon]

why do you need to null something if the it's being disposed anyway?

are you doing anything in the dispose method that is not itself disposing of member variables?

the only thing I've ever done in a dispose block is call the dispose method of idisposable member variables

or are you working with a ton of statics

[lethal walrus]

First ever dead HD yay (boot drive for old pc/server, nothing important so it's fine)

[safe dragon]

rest in peace

[dapper sinew]

its been 2 days and only slight issues with Linux,,, ill call that a success

[safe dragon]

you haven't imploded the entire system?

[dapper sinew]

nope

[molten coyote]

The number of times I just had to completely reinstall after a single command when I started using Linux...

[pliant snow]

I dont think ive ever bricked a system

Ive done stuff i knew was a bad idea and suffered the consequences, but not that bad

[cinder karma]

I have. Once

I uninstalled python

[pliant snow]

Im surprised they let you

[cinder karma]

Linux let's you shoot yourseld

[molten coyote]

It really does. You install something, change your mind, uninstall it, and it decides to also uninstall a half dozen other critical system components that were attached to the package you just removed. Then you can't even just put that package back to restore functionality, because everything else is already gone

[sonic mirage]

That sounds like the package manager either messing up or being misconfigured

But I know just enough to be dangerous when it comes to linux, so who knows

[cinder karma]

Yeah I've never had that happen in linux

Windows on the other hand, random Uninstaller removing arial

[molten coyote]

Yeah, it only ever happened once, I'll say that. Also I'm pretty sure I also made the mistake of completely uninstalling python once. And on a separate occasion bricked the device uninstalling openssl while trying to add an older version that supported an outdated technology for a CTFLearn challenge. That was incredibly fun

So yeah, linux definitely lets you shoot yourself in the foot with no warning or remorse

[modest jewel]

Is there a mod that increases gambling limits at the casino?

[thin estuary]

#modded-stardew, but i don't think so anyway

[pliant snow]

I was going to say. Package manager bugs do happen, but on a healthy system I think uninstalling python would throw a fit

actually lets see

what could go wrong

"no"

[safe dragon]

it would only break kwin

it's fine

[crystal wren]

Flashbacks to (timed link): https://youtu.be/0506yDSgU7M?t=636

[lethal walrus]

that's an oops indeed

[pliant snow]

I feel like breaking kwin would be the least of my issues

[safe dragon]

do any of those issues matter when kwin doesn't work and you can't actually see anything

[safe dragon]

I'm always reminded of this

that one is still like 80% on linus

[crystal wren]

Yeah, I definitely place a BIT of the blame on the distro, buuuut... yeah, he just didn't read.

[safe dragon]

it's still fuckin wild though that trying to install steam triggered this

[lethal walrus]

why does it want to uninstall pop-desktop, anyway?

[crystal wren]

It was just a bug I believe!

[lethal walrus]

ah

[safe dragon]

something was configured incorrectly on popos for the dependencies for steam

[crystal wren]

Yeah, the absolute worst possible timing for that bloody bug too.

[safe dragon]

I believe it was a bug that existed for like an hour

exactly the hour linus did this

popos has since just stopped allowing you to say yes to that without really really trying

"maybe we shouldn't allow the user to delete the entire desktop to install their package"

[lethal walrus]

oh wow

[crystal wren]

It was such hilariously bad timing.

[safe dragon]

one of the most influential people in all of tech media tries your distro in the exact hour you have a disastrous bug....

[pliant snow]

You can still boot to TTY, it'll be fine

as god intended

that video basically killed pop_os lol

it was on the up and up until then

[safe dragon]

it definitely lost its spot in "beginner friendly recommendations"

pretty unfairly ultimately

it's ok

[pliant snow]

I used it for a time

It... was fine

[safe dragon]

I tried it twice, it was indeed fine

I'm hopeful for cosmic....

I'd finally have a normal distribution that supports monitor independent workspaces

[pliant snow]

i thought gnome did

[safe dragon]

it does not

[pliant snow]

maybe it was a gnome plugin that stopped working, I couldve sworn I had it for a while

[safe dragon]

gnome only has the ability to "freeze" everything except the main monitor to one workspace

[pliant snow]

oh maybe that was it

[safe dragon]

I'm guessing I'll try cosmic and then regardless of whether it's good I will eventually switch away again because I don't want to have to use apt

[pliant snow]

im sure it'll be supported outside of pop_os eventually

[safe dragon]

and it will work just as smoothly as cinnamon desktop outside of linux mint I'm sure

hope you're right though

[pliant snow]

now we just have to recommend nix to the newbies...

[safe dragon]

I don't even want to touch nix myself

seems like every package comes with a whole guide just on how to make it work on nix specifically

[pliant snow]

its true

all I want is to have arch accept a list of packages I want installed

I dont need any of the rest of nix's stuff

[safe dragon]

does it not

[pliant snow]

not in the same way as nix works, unless I'm missing some feature

[dapper sinew]

do dah do, tryin learn server stuff

been hard

cant get it to connect to me ai

[eager yoke]

In other news

I have created a Minecraft mod that

Independently works fine

But if you add any other mods

My mod continues to work fine

But it errors out any other mod added

For different reasons for each mod

I have created a mod that breaks all other mods

[safe dragon]

how could you

[eager yoke]

It wasn't on purpose

I frankly don't know how to deal with that

[thin estuary]

how any is "any"

like, literally any other mod?

or just some specific ones you tested / got reports for

[crystal wren]

Yeah, breaking with any other mods would be almost impressive!

[safe dragon]

breaking any other mod while yours still works

[queen garnet]

is the mod "forced vanilla" by chance?

[eager yoke]

I tried roughly 20

And turns out it's cuz Mixin is nonsense

[gaunt wadi]

me when my mod harmony patches every non-vanilla namespace with empty function bodies

[pliant snow]

Has anyone tried Zed

[lethal walrus]

Was planning to but didn't get around to it

[pliant snow]

People seem to like it

Although there's no proper linux release yet it seems

[ivory shadow]

I just used out parameters with DynamicInvoke. Wow does this feel dirty

[thin estuary]

Is this the thing where you make an array, invoke, and then read the values from that array back?

[ivory shadow]

Yeah. It's so weird, lol. And it performs terribly, of course. But I was just testing something quickly so it worked.

[dapper sinew]

i wanna learn this

[pliant snow]

Sounds like the ole tried and true method of just casting whatever you need to a void pointer

[dapper sinew]

    hello db 'Hello, World!',0

section .text
    global _start

_start:
    ; write system call
    mov eax, 4 ; system call number for write
    mov ebx, 1 ; file descriptor 1 is stdout
    mov ecx, hello ; pointer to string to output
    mov edx, 13 ; length of the string
    int 0x80 ; call kernel

    ; exit system call
    mov eax, 1 ; system call number for exit
    xor ebx, ebx ; exit code
    int 0x80 ; call kernel```

like genuinely

[pliant snow]

assembly?

[dapper sinew]

i guess thats its name from the person i just talked to

yeah i wanna learn machine code

but apperetly i cant learn binary so one step up will do

[pliant snow]

All that is is binary converted into something humans can more easily read, they're exactly the same

You might look into programming old game systems like a Game Boy, which uses binary and you can actually end up with an interesting project in the process

[strange copper]

i had to take a class on assembly/other hardware stuff and it broke me lol

[worn dune]

sooo ive been wanting to meddle in mods for a while but i got no clue where to start. im already knowledgeable about programming since ive been studying it for three years, but im really lost here lol

[gilded hound]

Start with risc-v

Or if you feel like that's too complicated, lc3 is another good starting point

[ivory shadow]

I am enjoying my little argument parser. It isn't the most powerful thing, but it's way more than I needed probably for trigger action arguments. And I hadn't made one before. https://gist.github.com/KhloeLeclair/b9776f3fcb1b05f02d6f888f695caa0c

I just wish there was a less dumb way to assign values from it than value => someLocal = value delegates, lol

But that made more sense to me than constructing a dynamic object to hold the values that I'd then need more work to read them out of.

[cinder karma]

Oh that is nice!

[dapper sinew]

What are those?

[pliant snow]

Its a type of CPU

[gilded hound]

when talking about coding in assembly, assembly is specific to each cpu. So intel cpus run on x86 assembly for example. Risc-v is based on risc (reduced instruction set computer) which makes it a easier place to start. LC3 (Little computer 3) is an educational assembly language that's fairly popular.

[pliant snow]

I did assembly on arduinos in college, although i forget what architecture they are

[dapper sinew]

I want to learn it cause I want my code to be able to be used anywhere

[gilded hound]

that's the purpose of high level languages

[dapper sinew]

This require importation of libraries

Most of the time at least

[gilded hound]

And why's that bad? You can bundle those libraries with whatever you ship

(Also llvm is pain. Cross compiling assembly is not fun)

[dapper sinew]

Cause pip and npm are annoying me

[gilded hound]

I can guarantee you that trying to cross compile assembly will be more annoying, if not straight up painful

[dapper sinew]

I compile C# using my terminal. I think I'll be fine.... Think

[gilded hound]

There's very many architectures that exist, and assembly is specific to each architecture.

[crystal wren]

Yeah, learning assembly so your code can be used anywhere is going the exact opposite direction of that goal...

[dapper sinew]

Oof

[pliant snow]

To elaborate on that, the compilers, which convert normal code into stuff computers understand, do the handling for all the architectures they support, so they do the heavy lifting of supporting different cpu tyoes

[dapper sinew]

So how do I make something like that without stupid importing

[gilded hound]

Rewrite the functionalities of the libraries you need I suppose.

[pliant snow]

I guess the important question is what is your goal?

[crystal wren]

If your goal is getting away from "ah damn it, I hate C++'s build system(s)"...

Then valid.

[pliant snow]

Learning assembly out of curiosity is a fine goal, but if you want more portable code, then theres better topics to study

[cinder karma]

Rust has a damn good build system

Also I'm surprisingly happy with AoT c#

[crystal wren]

But unfortunately I think only... two architectures in terms of default support?

Rust, that is!

[dapper sinew]

To remove the importation and have my code be cross machine(Linux Mac win... Chrome...) not break when I change a single thing and have it implode

[pliant snow]

Theres more toolchains than just two. Ive used x64, arm64, and wasm myself

[dapper sinew]

That's also a reason

[crystal wren]

Okay nevermind, it has a lot more!

https://doc.rust-lang.org/nightly/rustc/platform-support.html

[pliant snow]

Ahh yes

Different languages have different ways to get around this

[dapper sinew]

Also I plan to control my PC via the code for stuff. Along with AI

[pliant snow]

Depending on what you want, youll need to check for different platform support. If you want to make a gui program which uses the official windows systems, it wont run on mac or linux, gotta use libraries that support them

[dapper sinew]

One reason I wanna learn it is that it looks fun!

[dapper sinew]

Terminal GUI :3

[pliant snow]

If its just text stuff, thats more portable

In that case, platform shouldnt impact too much, although you might have to cross compile

[cinder karma]

Yeah, one of the nice things about c# is that it is quite compatible across different operating systems

[crystal wren]

And you could theoretically port it to custom platforms...

[dapper sinew]

I plan to make my own language one day

But that's far into the future

[strange copper]

That Javas whole selling point when it came out right

[pliant snow]

Its okay

C# code is usually a red flag that theyre using a bunch of win32 stuff, so ive had bad experience with it lol

[pliant snow]

"Write once, run everywhere"

[strange copper]

Feel like I'm watching a commercial haha

[crystal wren]

And with the power of JetBrain-

[strange copper]

Ok intellij is good tho

[crystal wren]

People use something other than OpenJDK now?

[strange copper]

I always downloaded Amazon corretto

[dapper sinew]

I use nano sometimes

[strange copper]

Because I didn't need an account

[dapper sinew]

It's nice

Vim SUCKS

nano gang

[crystal wren]

...and thus starts the holy war.

[strange copper]

Wait I thought we were talking about where we get our Java sdks, not editors

[dapper sinew]

IDK

[pliant snow]

Ive never heard of anyone using the oracle one lol

[strange copper]

Is openjdk an editor or just a jdk

[crystal wren]

Personally, I only use jdk-mc. /j

Unironically though, I would use this for Minecraft.

[dapper sinew]

(is it bad that i want that )

[pliant snow]

i dont think openjdk includes a editor

[gilded hound]

I just use sdkman. I gave up on understanding the java versioning system

[pliant snow]

We always used eclipse when i did java

[crystal wren]

...oh no.

[strange copper]

My high school computers only had eclipse installed

I hated it 😭

[gilded hound]

I believe I used blueJ back then

[crystal wren]

If JetBrains have an offering for something, I'm... pretty likely to prefer it.

[gilded hound]

I only code in java nowredays for my uni anyways. They just love wasting my time.

Funny story, I recently had to take a course called CSE 15L Software Tools and Techniques, where they basically teach you how to work with linux systems. The class was "open chatgpt" and exams were given a week ahead of time with unlimited submissions. I've been talking with the professor for CSE 30 Computer Organization and Systems Programming, and to no one's surprise, the students are wholly unprepared and most of them are going to fail because they don't even know how to rename a directory. I'm seriously worried about the future of CS at my uni lol

[marble jewel]

I partially blame all these hidden abstractions of things like the filesystem or file types. Desktop OS are trying to inherit the design language of mobile phones, and make understanding the concept of files/folders a power-user thing.

It's the "What's a computer?" generation

[crystal wren]

"Don't you all have computers?" -- Blizzard presenter person, 2065

[strange copper]

But if you're in school for cs....

[marble jewel]

If you're in school for CS, then you're presumably the cream of the crop, so it only goes downhill from there.

[cinder karma]

Huh

[strange copper]

Windows by default hides extensions

[cinder karma]

Might be a different location thing but we expect everyone to be able to function in python

[strange copper]

Even if you don't study cs?

[cinder karma]

Clarification: I'm EE

We expect EEs to be able to handle python
You should also be competent in matlab

[marble jewel]

Well that and they don't want people to navigate folder, just like Apple's iOS they're trying to present things in libraries that ignore or abstract away the underlying filesystem

[strange copper]

I think engineers at my uni also need some intro programming

[gilded hound]

part of it is, at least in california, there's serious over enrollment of cs students

[marble jewel]

It's not all the way there yet, but it's getting there

[crystal wren]

(https://www.ee.co.uk/? )

But yeah, expecting some kind of proficiency for that makes perfect sense!

[strange copper]

The "easy big tech money" speech lol

[pliant snow]

Oh I TA'd for CS students whose knowledge would shock you

[gilded hound]

plus the priority for CS students is insane. I still don't understand why undergradute CS students have priority over me, for my graduate physics courses

[strange copper]

That really does not make sense

[gilded hound]

Oh yeah, its really shocking. The other day, a 4th year cs student asked me what a class was.

[crystal wren]

...what.

[gilded hound]

I worry for their future, since they're about to graduate

[sonic mirage]

I did surprisingly little programming for my Comp Sci degree

[pliant snow]

And theyve never attended a single class

[gilded hound]

(My uni does place a higher emphases on math, but a class should be standard knowledge with a cs degree)

[pliant snow]

Did they just not know the term

[gilded hound]

especially since I imagine the first they do after graduation is look for a software engineering job

[pliant snow]

I went quite a while without knowing what a "callback" was, simply because i had never heard it called that

[gilded hound]

Oh no, like we were supposed to put together some quick code. He just did not know how to code outside of simple scripting

[sonic mirage]

I think there was maybe one class and our capstone project class that were required courses that had programming, besides CS I & II. I elected to take some web dev courses for the in-major electives, but there were plenty without programming in them

[gilded hound]

Like he knew primitive types, loops, main function in java, and that was the extent of what he knew how to code.

[cinder karma]

I still say "closure" when I mean lambda tbh

[sonic mirage]

And then the capstone project I only had a single class to implement since the one guy on our team did almost the whole project over the weekend at the beginning of the course since he already worked in the field.

[strange copper]

My degree is really theory heavy too

We have some more software engineering courses but they aren't required

[pliant snow]

I find the term lambda to be a terrible one tbf

[strange copper]

I think not enough people build stuff for the sake of building stuff because that's where a lot of my learning comes from

[crystal wren]

For someone who never actually did one, I have very strong opinions on them. That one sounds excellent to me, and the kind I wish I could have found. Raw computer science vs general software engineering kind of thing.

[gilded hound]

I think that's fine, because software engineering is pretty different from general programming. Like who really needs to know design patterns, and integration testing, and unit testing outside of software engineers. But I also don't equate computer science with software engineering, which I find many new students do.

[strange copper]

To clarify I also think it's fine; you theoretically go to uni for the science behind it, not just to be a code monkey building crud apps

There are options to learn design patterns and stuff so it's not like they never teach it, you just gotta sign up

[sonic mirage]

I get your meaning, I think, in that most classes were background info and theory rather than "programming practice", and I don't mean to diminish the importance of those kind of courses, but when I graduated I didn't have as much applicable skill as I would have liked when attempting to enter the workforce for that field, is all I'm saying

[pliant snow]

I honestly use the terms interchangeably, even tho i shouldnt lol

[cinder karma]

Isn't thar the point of internships?

[strange copper]

yeah but internships are COMPETITIVE now

[sonic mirage]

We had a course on computer hardware that I'm sure was helpful to some people, but I found it to be a huge waste of my time. While that's likely because hardware was already an interest of mine, I'd have rather had a course with some programming instead. So maybe they just should have made some things more configurable.

[pliant snow]

Not if youre a intern hiring manager lol

[gilded hound]

It leads to some funny situations. You study cs? So you're good at coding. Uhhh actually I study discrete differential geometry and ergodic theory thank you very much. I'm not very good at coding

[sonic mirage]

They certainly help in that regard, but if those aren't part of the curriculum then not so much

[strange copper]

do some schools guarantee you internships as part of the curriculum?

[gilded hound]

I've heard some do

[strange copper]

mine has career fairs but that's it lol

[sonic mirage]

Before I switched to comp sci my mechanical engineering major had them built in

You basically just worked instead of taking mech eng courses for a couple of the years

[strange copper]

I think my school might have too many CS majors to ever do that for the CS program

[sonic mirage]

Then I learned you use like 10% of what you learn of mech eng in college and I lost interest in it, hence then switching majors

[gilded hound]

If you're ever looking for something like an internship talk to your physics department. Half of what most labs do is just coding.

[pliant snow]

Damn physics department never hired me for anything...

[gilded hound]

Did you ever ask? Also if the professor doesn't respond ask their grad students.

Professors generally don't really know if their students need help. They just assume the grad student can handle it

[pliant snow]

I sent some emails to some professor i think, never heard back and that was the end of that

[cinder karma]

They probably saw your email, meant to answer

Then got called away to a meeting tbh

[strange copper]

if your school was big, I can see them just not replying

[gilded hound]

Yeah that tends to happen. Best bet is usually to show up to their office if you can, or talk to their grad students. Yup that's exactly what happens

[pliant snow]

Ah well, it was many years ago

[sand frost]

Professors are often awful at email

Although in my experience there's two types: Type 1 responds in 5 minutes, schedules a meeting next day. Type 2 never responds, or responds weeks later with something borderline incomprehensible.

[gilded hound]

My favorite is the type that respond a year later

[sand frost]

Meanwhile I oscillate between type 1 and type 2, though optimistically my emails are usually grammatically correct

[cinder karma]

Yeah, professor mathperson

[sand frost]

looooook life is hard and email triage has gone from "nice" to "must do or my life is a shambles"

[crystal wren]

I just got a comment telling me my 1.8.10 version number for Smart Building is abnormal because of the double digits.

[ivory shadow]

People are weird.

[crystal wren]

Double digits in a version number are a little uncommon, usually after 1.8.9 you'd go to 1.9.0 because labelling it with 1.8.10 causes it to be listed out of order with other versions in files. (Basically the 0 in .10 is ignored because it has no value, making it look like .1 to file sorting software) This is really inconsequential and a nitpick at best for me to point out, obviously you can do what you want with your version numbers, just thought I'd share that info

Like I get the reasoning, but...

[thin estuary]

but they're just straight up wrong

i can't wait until they see Stardew Valley going up to 1.6.10 and lose their minds

quick, find some critical bug and don't report it until 1.6.9 is up, so this can happen

[crystal wren]

https://stardewvalleywiki.com/Version_History#1.3.36

[frosty echo]

It's even just wrong, windows explorer for me sorts them properly

[tranquil grove]

nexusmods' file lists do that since they sort it like text, but pretty much everything else knows better
(even when sorting by version, oddly enough, but people can generally use "date uploaded")

[molten iris]

Is there a way to get mods on a Mac that don’t cost my entire RAM to run and make my laptop fan die of death disease

I love SV but I’m sick of crashing my poor MacBook running janky software

[strange copper]

probably better for #modded-stardew but it highly depends on what kind of mods you're running

[molten iris]

Ohhh ok sorry

New to the server wrong channel :/

[strange copper]

if you're loading lots of new items and textures, they have to get cached somewhere in memory

[molten iris]

Yeah I don’t really care about textures I just want the mods where they give you new characters

No offense to pelican town

But it’s been four years since I moved there I want new friends LOL

[strange copper]

new characters have new textures lol

[molten iris]

yeah but I know people who make their game look

Idk like Skyrim

I ain’t tryna play Skyrim farming edition ahaha

[strange copper]

how much ram does your laptop have?

[molten iris]

Not a ton like 8gigs I think he’s an ancient MacBook Air named Fred

My son who has every disease

I literally melted his insides running disco elysium LOL

[strange copper]

you might get some luck in #modded-stardew or #archived-modded-support but all I can say is the more mods you install, the more RAM you will probably use so you might have to stick with a smaller modlist of mods that don't add too many items or anything (and also close all the other programs on your computer while you run SDV)

[molten iris]

Thanks :))

[strange copper]

Also your issue might be a slow, old drive to load the content

[molten iris]

So helpful online strangers

[gaunt wadi]

I do this, but I also follow semver at the same time, so if the version bumps from 1.9.9 to 2.0.0 for a patch I add in some extra breaking changes to justify the major version bump, as a treat

if the major version bumps the major version bumps what else can I say

also 9.9.9 is the max version of software that I can release, because 10 isn't allowed in version numbers as described above, so I have to be really careful and ration updates

software development is hard I wish they'd make it easier

wait a minute, I just realized I can roll back around to 0.0.0 and keep going, nvm problem solved

[gilded hound]

is 0.0.0 a valid semver? I feel like 0.1.0 is the first version that makes sense

[gaunt wadi]

yes

[ivory shadow]

0.x.x is special in semver though. That's the "initial development" major version, where anything may break at any time and the public API is not guaranteed to be stable.

It's starting at 1.x.x when you need to do major version increments when you introduce breaking changes.

(Also, -1.-1.-1 isn't valid. The numbers have to be non-negative.)

[queen garnet]

I don't think all zeros is valid. You do have to start somewhere

[queen garnet]

I agree that 0.1.0 should probably be the lowest, but I'm sure someone could come up with a handwavey/niche reason to start a project at 0.0.1

a license and empty README perhaps

[ivory shadow]

All zeroes is valid, whether or not it makes sense

[eager yoke]

I have developed a greater appreciation for how the 1.6 Code Changes were handeled with Modders for Stardew

Post 1.16 for Minecraft, they randomly changed how Structures work at its very core (they no longer have an easily accessible register), so documentation is sparse and confused

Like I swear to GOSH

[thin estuary]

The part that I hate the most about Minecraft is that they STILL obfuscate their code

Like, man, why is that still a thing

[crystal wren]

They obfuscate it.

And produce public mappings.

[eager yoke]

YEAH

I HATE IT

And the worst part is, I can't really find anyone who actually knows what they're doing with actual Minecraft modding. Datagen? Definitely. Anything beyond that? Suddenly no one to be found.

My theory is that the commuity is so oversaturated with younger folks asking really simple questions that the people who WOULD be able to answer complex questions are basically hiding

[crystal wren]

I mean I know why they do that with the mappings. Because by using them, you agree to an additional license, and it makes their lawyers happy.

Still hate it!

[gilded hound]

That's pretty much my issue with it too. I tried to get into minecraft modding a while back, but the main response I got was to read the forge documentation.

[leaden marsh]

I was primarily on the server plugin side of Minecraft modding, and the thing that broke me was when Spigot/Paper transitioned to using the official public mappings

A lot of my custom code for the plugin I was working on just broke, and so many systems changed that it was no longer worth it to re-figure out how to make stuff work again

Stardew actually keeping the modding community in mind was such a change of pace

[eager yoke]

100% agreed

[crystal wren]

And such a long semi-public alpha for 1.6 was excellent.

[pliant snow]

minecraft modding sounds like an exercise in frustration

they break everything each update while not adding much actual content lol

[crystal wren]

@marble jewel Do you mind if I DM you about something? (Nothing scary, don't worry!)

[pliant snow]

its just a MLM

[cinder karma]

I assume it's about curse/Ryan

[pliant snow]

It's about your car's extended warrenty

[marble jewel]

Sure go on ahead

[sand frost]

A burning question about Python that only you can answer

[lethal walrus]

This is why my mod(s) are for multiple versions ago

[tranquil grove]

trying to play with thaumcraft made me start to resent the official updates
"okay wolves are neat but now I can't get eaten by magic black holes"

that one in particular has 6 versions, none for the game versions my friends were into
(and I never dared try to write mods myself, given that)

[dapper sinew]

can anyone help me get a file from Linux

i require it but my pc being angy and not getting it

[pliant snow]

you should just be able to mount the drive and navigate into it

[dapper sinew]

oh not like that

i see that my words fail me

im trying to install an AI cause chat bot keep me company, but i need a conda file that refuses to download

[pliant snow]

Oh. If you have the direct URL you can just use wget to download it

[dapper sinew]

i dont :(

[pliant snow]

What is it youre trying to do then?

[dapper sinew]

thing wont download

[pliant snow]

It's trying to run a program that doesn't exist

[dapper sinew]

thats, the problem
its supposed to auto download it

Downloading Miniconda from https://repo.anaconda.com/miniconda/Miniconda3-py310_23.3.1-0-Linux-x86_64.sh to /home/butterbear/AI/text-generation-webui-snapshot-2024-04-28/installer_files/miniconda_installer.sh
  % Total    % Received % Xferd  Average Speed   Time    Time     Time  Current
                                 Dload  Upload   Total   Spent    Left  Speed
100 69.7M  100 69.7M    0     0  46.7M      0  0:00:01  0:00:01 --:--:-- 46.7M
ERROR: File or directory already exists: '/home/butterbear/AI/text-generation-webui-snapshot-2024-04-28/installer_files/conda'
If you want to update an existing installation, use the -u option.
Miniconda version:
./start_linux.sh: line 41: /home/butterbear/AI/text-generation-webui-snapshot-2024-04-28/installer_files/conda/bin/conda: No such file or directory
./start_linux.sh: line 49: /home/butterbear/AI/text-generation-webui-snapshot-2024-04-28/installer_files/conda/bin/conda: No such file or directory
Conda environment is empty.

[pliant snow]

What else is start_linux.sh doing

[pliant snow]

try deleting everything in /home/butterbear/AI/text-generation-webui-snapshot-2024-04-28/installer_files and running it again

[dapper sinew]

nope, same error :/

[pliant snow]

Does /home/butterbear/AI/text-generation-webui-snapshot-2024-04-28/installer_files/conda exist?

it doesnt like that its already there when you run the installer

[dapper sinew]

it does, but not conda/bin/conda

[pliant snow]

delete the whole conda folder

[dapper sinew]

done, and same error

[pliant snow]

ERROR: File or directory already exists: '/home/butterbear/AI/text-generation-webui-snapshot-2024-04-28/installer_files/conda' This exact same error?

[dapper sinew]

yep

when i remove it... it doesnt exist... when its there... it already exists

[pliant snow]

then whoever wrote the script did a poor job

[dapper sinew]

thats why i wanna move to a Nodejs server but i need to learn coding more for that

[pliant snow]

what do you want, just to run some local AI model?

[dapper sinew]

ye

at the basics at least

[pliant snow]

Have you tried ollama

[dapper sinew]

yes. its much slower for some reason

i get like 50 tokens/s with ooba but like 3-16/s when using ollama

[pliant snow]

hmm

maybe theyve got a docker image or something

[dapper sinew]

probably i dont know how to use docker though, might take a look at it though

[pliant snow]

docker IMO is easier than mucking about with different python conda installs, but thats just me

[lethal walrus]

docker is confusing. I have never had a python dependency issue

[cinder karma]

Has anyone tried Zed?

[pliant snow]

#programmers-off-topic message

Quit copying me

(I haven't gotten around to trying it tho)

[ivory shadow]

Twice now someone has asked that. Twice now in my head I interpreted it as Zig rather than Zed.

[dapper sinew]

can someone help me please, i really hate that i cant do anything on my own but i did this to myself

i need a iso flasher for linux

cause i got rid of my windows install

[marble jewel]

#programmers-off-topic message Quit copying me

[crystal wren]

Zig, you say?

_start:
   mov zig

I will take my award for ancient meme reference now, thank you.

[ivory shadow]

I'd use zig but every time I try to install it the ancient knowledge awakens and "take off every zig" commands me to uninstall it again. /s

[cinder karma]

I guess I'll be compiling from source on Linux this weekend

Looks fun

[dapper sinew]

i do that all the time

[cinder karma]

Python and Rust support good enough for me 😛

[dapper sinew]

cause i am big dumb and dont know how to do stuff normally

[pliant snow]

dd is here for you

[pliant snow]

I thought about doing it, but haven't tried. I wonder how long it'll take to compile

[dapper sinew]

site?

[pliant snow]

You almost certainly have it installed

[dapper sinew]

oh wait its a command

uhh time to learn how to flash using dd

OMG THAT WAS PAINLESS

now to see if it works

OMG IT WORKS

[dapper sinew]

THANK YOU

[pliant snow]

Linux got yo back

[strange copper]

in IL code instructions, is the return value from a non-void function call instruction pushed onto the stack?

[ivory shadow]

Yes

[strange copper]

thank you :) diving into transpiler land with my small amount of x86-64 knowledge in my back pocket and a few examples of existing transpilers

I'm actually borrowing yours as an example now that I think about it haha

[ivory shadow]

Use linqpad or sharplab or something to write code and look at the generated IL. That helps a lot in my experience

[strange copper]

the way that I said I would never use those concepts again and here i am....

all for a silly little game

[crystal wren]

...LINQPad has an IL view?

[cinder karma]

Yws

[shut wave]

Ok, I just think yall might find this funny...
Me: talks to my friend about my moding
My friend who runs a fucking crypto company: Are you good at this stuff?
Me: Panic No dude. I am not good at coding.

[sonic mirage]

The best way to get good at coding is to get paid to get good at coding

[dapper sinew]

https://github.com/face-hh/bussin

what

in

the

world

    waffle("1 is 1")
} impostor sus (1 nah 2){
    waffle("1 is NOT 2")
} impostor sus (1 fr 3 carenot 1 fr 1){
    waffle("1 is 1 or 3")
} impostor sus (1 fr 3 btw 1 fr 1){
    waffle("1 is 1 and 3. how's that possible hello??")
} impostor {
    waffle("How did we get here?")
}```

[ivory shadow]

What you can't read that? Perfectly sensible

[dapper sinew]

no'

i can

thats the problem

well kinda

[lethal walrus]

Sort of

[cinder karma]

What

[tranquil grove]

(posted by a stranger) I assume this is treating NaN as text and trimming it, but is a Number actually a value anywhere?

[pliant snow]

It's not a NaN bug if you delete the first N in the string

[sonic mirage]

Kitten can sense when I'm actually getting work done

[crystal wren]

@cinder karma, cat. Do not miss the cat.

Now I actually see one in the wild, though... how is the actual quality of that desk pad?

[cinder karma]

Cat!!

[crystal wren]

That's a super bloody cute cat, though.

[pliant snow]

I have one of those too

its p high quality

[cinder karma]

Cat or mousepad

[sonic mirage]

This one's pretty good

So is the other one, though

Also the desk mat is holding up well. Good quality

If I was to get another I'd might get the circuit pattern instead, but this one is still nice

[crystal wren]

Now I just need them to keep some stock in Europe...

[cinder karma]

Cat or mousepad

[crystal wren]

Yes.

Wait, no, stocking cats is awful.

[pliant snow]

I think that's herding cats

[crystal wren]

// This relies on external things, and is stinky. TODO: Combine this and the item reel property into one later.
public bool TryGetInteractionReel(int x, int y, GameLocation location, string key,
    out List<MenuPage> pages)
{

This might be one of my favourite comments.

[left haven]

awww babies

my boys were fighting over water

[sonic mirage]

Yeah they're not really fighters

[cinder karma]

Cat!!!!

[heavy crown]

@merry night where u from

how from

far away?

[sweet monolith]

this is the channel to talk about programming, please if you want to talk about general things go to #adventurers-guild

[sonic mirage]

Don't worry, Vin, those were programming cats

[dapper sinew]

?

someone explain

[sonic mirage]

https://css-tricks.com/css-is-awesome/

[ivory shadow]

I wonder if that was printed that way on purpose or if the print goofed up and they decided to repurpose it

[sonic mirage]

It could go either way, but to print it all in one go exactly as we see it they'd need a lot of wasteful supports for the second-from-top section, so it's likely printed separately and assembled like this on purpose

If the print shifted on accident I'd expect the second-from-top section to be a droopy mess

[ivory shadow]

Yeah, all I could think is like... maybe they dropped it after it finished and the layer adhesion wasn't the best.

[dapper sinew]

#images-and-memes message

[scarlet hollow]

Rant: I’ve dragged my windows desktop icons back into the proper order and arrangement five times in the past 24 hours. Over the past few years, Windows would fuck up my icons once every couple of months or so, but since Thursday, it’s done it every single time I log in, log out, restart, shutdown, or Explorer crashes.

[thin estuary]

the solution is obviously to stop using the desktop

[scarlet hollow]

Genuinely was about to do that. Not even kidding

I’ve resorted to downloading third-party software to save my icon positions to a separate file and restore them. The way it does it is asinine; it interprets the desktop as a massive continuous canvas and saves the absolute pixel positions of the icons across it, meaning that if I adjust the relative positions of my monitors or have one disconnected it scrambles everything

But it’s better than nothing, I guess

[lethal walrus]

would a folder with large icons sorted alphabetically work?

[crystal wren]

It's not free (like 9.99?), but maybe https://www.stardock.com/products/fences/ will be worth trying.

[lethal walrus]

so only one icon to break

[lethal walrus]

ooo

[scarlet hollow]

Oh wow, that looks very nice

[crystal wren]

Ah, correction! 9.99 for a year's license... 29.99 perpetual, which is a bit less appealing.

[scarlet hollow]

Hmm, yeah, that’s an interesting idea. I’ve always felt like the desktop is the only place that should have absolutely positioned icons, so I’m a bit reticent to create a folder for that purpose. Fences honestly seems like it might gel with my workflow so I’m probably gonna take a peek at that

[lethal walrus]

3 yearly years being the cost of lifetime is one of the better deals I've seen for software to be fair - still expensive for fixing a bug but not horrendous

[scarlet hollow]

Yeah. That’s the part that chaps my ass. Like, I really have to download third-party software to fix the operating system you made, Microsoft?

[lethal walrus]

how much do you use your desktop anyway?

[crystal wren]

I moved to Windows 11 day one it became public, and it was genuinely great. I had an absolutely excellent time using it, with virtually no problems.

[lethal walrus]

like is it feasible to just have it clear

[crystal wren]

Now, though... now it's absolutely horrendous.

[scarlet hollow]

Ermmmm, I use it a lot. I have more stuff on the desktop than I’m proud to admit

[lethal walrus]

dw mine is full too

I use a whole 3 shortcuts! (and then a few for powertoys search to function bc idk how to make the indexing full and i can't be bothered to look it up)

[scarlet hollow]

I even went and found the place in the registry where Windows saves the desktop layout, but guess what? They only update it on logout as part of a controlled shutdown of explorer.exe. So because my icons get messed up when I log out, it just never saves

[scarlet hollow]

I’m still on Windows 10. Tell me more—I heard 11 was actually pretty bad when it first came out, but maybe those reviews were pre-public release idk. What’s wrong with it now?

[lethal walrus]

ads!

iirc

[scarlet hollow]

If it weren’t for Linux compatibility being so poor (I don’t consider Wine or Proton to be a genuine solution) I probably would have already switched over to that.

[cinder karma]

What's wrong with Linux?

[scarlet hollow]

Low first-party software support

[cinder karma]

Ah. Basically every thing I use has Linux versions or us a bloody CAD

[crystal wren]

Right now, it's all about Windows Explorer, and the... whatever you want to call the file picker that programs will use to specifiy a file for opening/saving. Neither of those things should ever be horrendously slow.

[scarlet hollow]

I know there are plenty of programs that can replace functionality offered by things that are Mac/windows only, but I’m a little siloed in at this point and don’t feel like replacing/repurchasing/relearning a bunch of things, plus just giving up the things that have no suitable alternative. And, if you’ll forgive my incendiary take, I think dual booting is a cop out.

[crystal wren]

It should also never get to the point that I can hold alt, hit tab, and release both faster than the alt-tab menu takes to appear, which results in it getting stuck on the screen until I alt-tab again, or click on one of the selections in it.

[scarlet hollow]

I physically recoiled reading that

[crystal wren]

And just to be clear, this is on a 9900k, 32GB RAM, a 7900 XT... it's not a weak system by any means. Certainly not close to the fastest CPU you can get nowadays, but still.

[scarlet hollow]

Right right

[crystal wren]

RAM's all good too, it's passed every single torture test I can throw at it.

And these problems have persisted across multiple reinstalls!

Just... slooowly getting worse over time.

[scarlet hollow]

I remember seeing an early review mentioning that the right click menu had an absurd artificial delay, in addition to just??? Hiding shit??? Like, Word 2003 Intellimenus style?

[crystal wren]

...that delay is intentional? Huh.

[scarlet hollow]

Well, idk

But the fact that it’s not effectively instant is unacceptable

[cinder karma]

I reverted the right click menu

Registry edit but you can

Easily

[scarlet hollow]

Ooh

What can you revert? Just the animations? And was I remembering right that they do, in fact, hide options from you by default until you expand?

[cinder karma]

no, you can actually just go back to the win10 right click menu

they do hide some options, I did hate that, but I hated the icons more (because I could never remember which was which)

so revert that

also worth disabling bing search out of the search menu (another registry edut)

[scarlet hollow]

Oh my god okay so it literally is Intellimenus

Wait

THEY PUT BING SEarch In THECONYEXY MENU??

Not even editing that as it appropriately captures my rage

[lethal walrus]

ahh that's what it is

[cinder karma]

hate tos ay it

but all that is before my time

[scarlet hollow]

Nah it’s all good that’s why I included video 😄

[crystal wren]

I miss Windows 2000. That was my favourite!

[scarlet hollow]

Give me back Windows Longhorn /j

[lethal walrus]

2000 is the one with a browser version, right?

[ivory shadow]

I have a certification in Office 2000 and 2003 somewhere. Not that I, you know, cared about it. But back in high school there was this program that let you take certification tests for stuff for free and the teacher doubted me so I took every single test I could in a week without studying at all and passed all of them.

Uh. You might be thinking of 98 SE?

If you're thinking of active desktop?

That's when it was added.

[lethal walrus]

oh nope 2000 is the browser one

not if i can link it here since copyright but yep it's 2000

[ivory shadow]

Oh, you mean running in a web browser?

[lethal walrus]

mhm

[ivory shadow]

I'm pretty sure I've seen every version of Windows from XP back running in browser lol

That's nothing special

It just means emulators can run in webasm

[lethal walrus]

ahh

[scarlet hollow]

Surely it’s just an HTML or Canvas based replication, right? There’s no way someone genuinely ported XP to wasm and patched all of the functionality lol

Like, jspaint but an OS is what I’m thinking

[ivory shadow]

You don't port XP to wasm. You port QEMU to Wasm and run Windows in it.

[crystal wren]

Reminds me of me beating the computer teacher guy in school at every single speed test he put us to. That was funny.

[scarlet hollow]

And someone has done that? I’m just thinking the amount of data over the wire would be unreasonably large

Unless the expectation is that some loads an iso from local

I guess I’m coming from the mindset that since, presumably, it’s airgapped from WebUSB, WebSerial, FileSystem, and other associated APIs, it would be essentially a novelty, since you could just emulate locally. Through that lens, it seems like a very weird thing to dedicate that amount of bandwidth (in both the human and internet senses) to.

[lethal walrus]

that is incredibly surprising, [insert brwoser based XP here, idk if i can say name bc copyright] uses html elements, tailwind and svelte, not seeing any wasm

[scarlet hollow]

Okay yeah, that makes more sense to me.

Also (getting on my soapbox)… tailwind………..

[lethal walrus]

word has a weirdly fancy ui, definitely not a proper port

it lets you do this though https://i-have-not.got-your.info/SeitlASP3A

[scarlet hollow]

I—

[scarlet hollow]

Nice domain name btw lmfao

[lethal walrus]

i could go further but i cant open IE in the last one

actually I could, but I can't access the url bar

[lethal walrus]

thanks

[scarlet hollow]

Assuming you control it, have you considered having a short link on i-have-not* redirecting to i-have and then showing their IP on a map?

[lethal walrus]

I don't control it, no

[scarlet hollow]

Aww

[lethal walrus]

I could still use i-have.got-your.info though for images/files/text

[scarlet hollow]

I see, I see

I’m a vanity domain aficionado

[scarlet hollow]

I have one that’s just mylastna.me (but my actual last name)

[scarlet hollow]

And I have a Google workspace subscription set up on it so I have an email [e-mail]

[lethal walrus]

always nice to have a fancy domain

is it actually .me or another TLD that just spells your name?

[scarlet hollow]

No, another TLD, so it literally is just my name with a dot before the last two letters 🙂

[lethal walrus]

ahh very nice

[scarlet hollow]

Also ironfla.re, which I haven’t done anything with yet (but will eventually)

[lethal walrus]

fancy

[scarlet hollow]

Shoutout to réunion, gotta be my favorite French speaking island nation

[crystal wren]

I have firstnamelastname.co.uk, and a single "me" inbox it points to.

[pliant snow]

I have firstlastname.com, aquova.net, stardew.chat, and aquo.zone lol

[cinder karma]

I have firstna.me lol

[pliant snow]

does your last name end in .me

[cinder karma]

no haha

[fleet oriole]

I remember a while ago there was some talk in the photography world about Hexagonal Pixels (2013 ish...), cause Hexagonal pixels, in theory, would be able to do better resolution. Anyways, that doesn't seem to have super happened, but, It would be pretty weird but interesting making pixel art in hexagons!

[scarlet hollow]

Hmmm, that’s an interesting idea. My immediate reaction, I guess, is that modern UIs have a lot of straight, horizontal lines, and those would be impossible to represent precisely on a hexagonal grid, right? It solves antialiasing for 30 degree angled lines, but it would make flat lines impossible to represent without it.

I guess it sort of brings up a discussion of packing factor, as well. Like, we don’t use spherical pixels in part because a dense grid of them would only cover 78% of the total surface, whereas squares get you as close to 100% as you’re going to get whilst being pretty cost effective and easy to engineer en masse. It’s a really neat thing to think about, though!

[dapper sinew]

is it wierd to hit enter with your pinky?

just realised after watching some vids that most people seem to use any of other finger besides that one

[scarlet hollow]

I’m in bed rn but I think I sometimes do that

Just sorta held my hands up in the dark and hit an imaginary enter key with hands in home row position, pinky was what I used

Right ring finger also seems viable

[dapper sinew]

thats what i see most people using

[scarlet hollow]

I think my ring finger’s considerably stronger than my pinky so that may have something to do with it, vis a vis getting a satisfying clack

Or a thock, if you’re a linear key fan

Oh also shift+enter is way more natural with pinky on shift

[dapper sinew]

i use index middle for shift enter or pink pink

(left shift enter for pink pink)

[autumn tangle]

Smashing enter is just too satisfying to let weak pinky do it

[pliant snow]

of course i use pinky

otherwise you gotta move your whole hand

[rain lotus]

Have I mentioned recently how mind boggling it is to interact with major modders here? Tagging Peaceful in the other chat made my heart speed up lmao

You say "modders are people" when folks get pushy about updates and bug fixes.... but holy shoot modders are people who exist in the same discord server as me and they ask for help or reply to stuff that's not about their mod and that's WILD

[crystal wren]

It can be a little bit like that at first!

[scarlet hollow]

As someone who barely plays Stardew, I'm just here for kindred programming spirits

[pliant snow]

You say "modders are people"
oh no one says that

[leaden marsh]

LMAO

i wasn't actually sure how I hit the return key

apparently I use my pinky

[strange copper]

wait till we learn that concerned ape is also a real person too and in this discord server 👀

[leaden marsh]

concerned ape is actually a machine

[supple ether]

it's a big part of why I love this community so much! I've been a part of other modding scenes but none of them have been so friendly, helpful, and tight-knit as this one. It's been an amazing experience, honestly. half the time when there were mod conflicts or we wanted to do cross-integration between my mod and someone else's, we'd just ping each other and chat about it.

It's also been nice to be able to be interactive with users who are having bugs with my mods, too. Nexus bug tracker is useful, but being able to chat in real time to work out a problem is so useful.

[crystal wren]

...how DO I hit enter?

Okay, pinky it is.

[supple ether]

anyways I think I'm getting a better grasp on using Spans since I learned about stackalloc. which incidentally is a really cool feature that I didn't know existed before.

[cinder karma]

I hit enter using the neurolink in my brain

[supple ether]

have you figured out how to bypass the ads yet

[cinder karma]

Sadly it's a really slow connector

No ads but I don't have enough bits to do more than send a few ascii commands

[cinder karma]

Stackalloc ❤️

[supple ether]

I did discover one thing that's slightly annoying though, which is that bitwise operators only work on ints? if you use them with bytes or chars you have to convert them back and forth

[lethal walrus]

I'm not sure if you mean he's a robot or that he's great at his job and is really efficient

[leaden marsh]

as per my contract i cannot clarify on this comment

[safe dragon]

apparently I had the modding category muted and collapsed so I forgot this channel existed for a while

I have returned

[supple ether]

welcome back

[scarlet hollow]

Confirmed: I press enter with ring finger, but I have large hands (I can just barely press rctrl+q with one hand)

[gaunt wadi]

my presence is a gift

[leaden marsh]

anytime Cat appears makes my day brighter

[supple ether]

it truly is

[modest steppe]

Can confirm am not a person

[tropic anchor]

I too, am a code robot

[safe dragon]

my work wishes I was

but I'm not a modder

[crystal wren]

#making-mods-general message

True lore. Maybe since CA is theoretically a robot he only recruits similar beings...

[tropic anchor]

https://tenor.com/view/kermit-darkside-star-wars-evil-innerme-gif-14818845

[strange copper]

With the new AI rules this lore implies content patcher cannot be used /j

[safe dragon]

it's for the best

[pliant snow]

https://openai.com/index/hello-gpt-4o/

spam calls will never be the same again

[crystal wren]

Time to start memorising LLM breakout terms to test spam calls with.

[safe dragon]

finally my sister and I refusing to ever use a telephone is preventing my parents from possibly being scammed by voice imitations of us

it all worked out

"my son would never call me this can't be him"

[tropic anchor]

Got a message from my "son", saying he's stranded somewhere and needs me to transfer some cash... I'm 20 and single...

[safe dragon]

"didn't know I had a son but I sent the money, poor guy..."

[tropic anchor]

I may be stupid, but not that stupid... yet

[safe dragon]

my mom used to repeatedly get scam texts from a bank she doesn't have an account at

[strange copper]

It's your long lost son you can't not help him

[safe dragon]

why is he lost anyway there's google maps

[strange copper]

SO REAL

I get lost even with maps sometimes tho like some people are just built different

[tranquil grove]

my current phone overheats and crashes if I use google maps, so I get extra lost

[crystal wren]

To be fair, that's always run terribly or super hot on every phone in existence...

[tranquil grove]

the 3d/pseudo-3d map view did seem kinda excessive even for newer ones

[sonic mirage]

turns down music so he can read street signs

[rain lotus]

I don't own a cell phone and it's unironically been the thing that's helped my gramma realize she was being scammed cuz there's no way I could be the one texting her

[scarlet hollow]

Inspecting an Elixir crashdump to identify the root cause and...

Yeah I think I found it

That's 18.4 exabytes

[safe dragon]

I recommend against allocating 18 exabytes of memory

how did you even achieve this

[scarlet hollow]

Yeah oopsie

I have literally no clue

[safe dragon]

I'm impressed

[scarlet hollow]

erl apply is using 18gb of memory which is more than my machine even has

I don't even know

[safe dragon]

I can't tell you

what's the code that does it

[safe dragon]

most of that isn't even your program it's the language server

[pliant snow]

Are you casting to a signed 64-bit int somewhere

[scarlet hollow]

Ohhh is it a two's complement issue?

[pliant snow]

yeah

thats my guess

[scarlet hollow]

I think it's an issue in the language server

[safe dragon]

evil elixirls

[scarlet hollow]

Top, like 9 ets tables are all LS

[safe dragon]

good job elixirls

[scarlet hollow]

Well at least it won't be a prod issue 🤞

[safe dragon]

could try one of the experimental replacement lsps for elixirls since you're far from the first to run into issues with ElixirLS...

lexical-lsp, next-ls and I think one other one

[scarlet hollow]

Ooh, I'll take a look, thank you!

I didn't even know there were alternatives, I was just click clacking away on my computer and everything gradually got slower and slower

[safe dragon]

they're very new so they're generally not very feature complete yet

but can always give em a shot

[scarlet hollow]

I'm not doing anything very "edge case", so it's at least worth a shot 🙂

[gaunt wadi]

oh no it sounds like the ai from the movie her