programmers-off-topic

[marble jewel]

Hard for me to mock everything in SDV

[safe dragon]

just first gotta mock like 16 different services for some reason

web stuff is painful to unit tests though

or at least blazor stuff

blazor unit tests break the moment any javascript is executed

gotta mock the javascript, in C#

[marble jewel]

Just un-Typescript the C#

[safe dragon]

we've ultimately just opted for just sticking with the end to end testing with selenium...

test some services we can test and just pray the components continue to work

[dapper sinew]

would you be able to help with a NixOS issue im having? or do you only use it sparingly

[pliant snow]

I only use it sparingly, but i might be able to help

[dapper sinew]

sorry just saw message, basically i cant boot do to bluetooth error

which is i guess common to happen? but not booting from it isnt

[pliant snow]

That seems wild, unless it's an issue in the kernel

Did you update something? Can you roll back?

[dapper sinew]

possibly kernal

[dapper sinew]

i cant boot past this so nope

(ignore messy desk cleaning slowly)

[pliant snow]

Is that just a coincidence tho

That doesnt look like a kernel panic or anything, just a general error

[dapper sinew]

only thing i did was allow garbage collection to happen on boot, other than that nothing changed. it could very well be that, still learning NixOS

[dapper sinew]

ahh ok, thats a bit of hope

(ive reinstalled Linux no less than 8 times already)

[pliant snow]

Ah. Yeah, without the garbage collection, you could roll back to your previous configuration change, but I think youve pruned that

[dapper sinew]

can i like nano into the config from windows?

[pliant snow]

is it a dual boot?

[dapper sinew]

yes different drives

[pliant snow]

That should be possible. Before you do that tho

While its sitting there, can you hit Control+Alt+F2

[dapper sinew]

i tried, switching tty's doesnt work either

[pliant snow]

ah

yeah that was my hope lol

[dapper sinew]

Same

[pliant snow]

I've seen it before where the prmopt doesn't immediately show up, but hitting enter makes it appear

its weird to have no tty at all tho

[dapper sinew]

i mean i can try again, not much could go wrong that hasnt before

(bricked Linux a few times :3 )

[pliant snow]

everything i see online suggests switching to a different tty

[dapper sinew]

I shall try

[pliant snow]

i cant say ive ever bricked a linux install before. I've created some kernel modules that crash and cause problems, and I've forgotten to install important things, but once its up and running I dont usually have issues

[dapper sinew]

And it uhh randomly works again

Huh

.... That's Linux for me I guess

I'm so confused for like 12 hours it booted and stopped

[pliant snow]

?? just rebooting worked?

suspicious...

[dapper sinew]

Yep

I uhh have no words

This has been my experience with Linux

Breaks randomly and fixes randomly

[pliant snow]

You can run journalctl -b -1 to see the logs from your last boot, but idk if anything will really be useful

[dapper sinew]

Meh last time I did that it was 800 lines and useless

[pliant snow]

yeahh

[dapper sinew]

Now to learn Hypr land!

[pliant snow]

idk what else to tell you, unless theres some weird thing in your configuration that is causing problems at boot

[dapper sinew]

IDK I did refactor my configuration.nix

So maybe it hiccuped then worked?

[pliant snow]

maybeeeee, but its a bit odd

[dapper sinew]

And I can't leave hypr land

I forgot to check the keybinds if this config

Lol

Thank Gods for tty and nani

Nano*

[pliant snow]

i think control T is the default to make a terminal appear

[dapper sinew]

I found an issue, I forgot a single ;

I'm my config

Coding hurts my brain

[dapper sinew]

Ooooo

I'll try that

Nope

[pliant snow]

That assumes you have one installed and set

actually, I think its set by default to open kitty, iirc

[dapper sinew]

I need a keyboard that has names of keys... Like what is exec and return... And super

[worn remnant]

super is usually mapped to the windows key by default. return and enter typically indicate the same key. don't know about exec

[pliant snow]

exec is a hyprland thing, that means that when you press those keys it "executes" whatever comes next (usually a program or script name)

return is... return

[cinder karma]

The llm's, they're just like us

[dapper sinew]

weeeeeee

[pliant snow]

lol thats fun

[dapper sinew]

i wonder,,, can i use both monitors to run two different sessions at once

hmmm

[dapper sinew]

im trying to do stuff with my system and my kitty decided my arm is his now

[safe dragon]

it happens

[upbeat turtle]

Poor your arm; just accept you will get no work done today.

[acoustic wind]

does anyone else jump around between a bunch of things? Cause I have about 4-5 mods i'm jumping between to avoid burnout on one or the other of them lol

[safe dragon]

I only jump to things I never jump back

[worn remnant]

yeah i have a few projects going at any one time and i move between them arbitrarily. it's not so much for burnout as it is to come back with fresh eyes, having focused on something else for a bit

[ebon canopy]

1 week later im finally finished

Feeling euphoric

Now I have the urge to start another project lol

[gentle shard]

Hello, I believe I'm on the correct channel because I don't know how to speak English very well, but this problem finally appeared to me:

[strange copper]

If you are making a mod, you will want to ask in #making-mods-general . If you want to install mods and play with them, you might want to ask in #archived-modded-support

[gentle shard]

OK thanks

[dapper sinew]

ive switched to nano almost completely now

[indigo mist]

@dapper sinew You leveled up to Farmer. You're now a prettier shade of blue. Thanks for sticking around!

[dapper sinew]

yay!

[crystal wren]

What the actual...

https://www.phoronix.com/news/MS-DOS-4.0-Open-Source

[wide adder]

Finally a good OS upgrade for my W10 computer !

[safe dragon]

no tpm2 required

[pliant snow]

Whats the contribution guidelines for MSDOS

[lethal walrus]

well it's already been archived

[safe dragon]

"please don't contribute"

[high willow]

I wonder, is someone free to update this mod? https://www.nexusmods.com/stardewvalley/mods/15123

I've tried getting on it myself but I have no knowledge at all and it's messy 😅

[frosty echo]

#making-mods-general or something, the -off-topic here means non-Stardew

[cinder karma]

Rust integration in kicad o.O

[ivory shadow]

Cursed web dev stuff: I was just looking at Nexus after noticing a data sanitation problem, and they're using jQuery 2.2.0.

That version is nine years old.

Not only is mainline jQuery on 3.7 now, but there are multiple security patches for 2.2 that they don't have.

Uuuuuuuuugh

[lethal walrus]

fun

[safe dragon]

ah but even better

jquery 4.0 is written in rust

or I hallucinated that

I might have

ah just the minifier

I don't want to check what version of jquery we're using in our old webforms application

it's 2 point something

oh

no, my bad

it's 1.10.2

11 years old!

[strange copper]

the fact that google knew what I wanted is astounding to be honest

[safe dragon]

very impressive

[thin estuary]

https://loglog.games/blog/leaving-rust-gamedev/

[safe dragon]

the bevy discord has been discussing this post for like a day now

responses range from understanding to some people who are essentially the toxic community types this post talks about

there's good points in this mixed together with just being frustrated

it's a little funny to me that it ends by marketing their own game which seems to essentially be a rather mediocre vampire survivors clone

honestly it's a mixed bag of an article

A lot of the points don't really make actual sense or are very specific to some library or tool he's using

none of which are tools that have even reached a stable release yet

[thin estuary]

i think the main point of "Rust just isn't a very good choice if you want to prototype at all or actually release a game in a finite amount of time" stands

[safe dragon]

yeah the general idea behind it makes sense. Rust is not a good language for rapid prototyping

it just isn't and never will be

to what degree that means it's a bad fit for game development is a different question though

[wide adder]

In my opinion this also mean that I can't see rust become as commonly used as other languages.
Sure its good at being robust, but from my experience as a professional dev, that's not what companies seeks in most cases.

[safe dragon]

I mean the industries where it makes sense are already using it

[wide adder]

Yeah that's true, to me it looks like another Cobol case where company that needs it will use it, but it'll stay pretty 'niche' otherwise

[safe dragon]

rust is valuable in systems where the stakes are high, performance is a requirement and security issues can be a very signficant problem

or just programs that need to remain maintainable for a very long time

programs where the initial cost of development time is easily earned back by being more robust and easier to maintain once it's actually ready

the language is already hardly niche even today though

[wide adder]

I completely agree on these.
This kind of programs probably represent only a very minor part of the global dev industry, but it's good that they have a language they can use that is not Cobol x.x

[safe dragon]

for game development idk, I guess depends on the kind of game you want to make

I mean rust is a great language to build a game engine on. But you might want a scripting system on top of that in a language that is more open to quick prototyping

[wide adder]

Funilly enough I think Rust might be quite useful for a Vampire Survivors clone as performance is crucial to nail in this kind of games

[safe dragon]

vampire survivor clones are very common on the bevy discord lmao

[crystal wren]

Industries exist where that's allowed?! /s

[safe dragon]

I'm curious to see where bevy and other rust based game engines end up tbh. Bevy's end goal is certainly not where it is now. The UI thing he complains about here makes sense because the current UI system in bevy is essentially a temporary placeholder they're in the middle of replacing for a proper system

the editor hasn't been made yet either

it's a bit early to be judging it in some aspects

I wouldn't be surprised if the end result is an engine where most people don't even use rust

just like Unity doesn't make you program in C++

or godot for that matter

[crystal wren]

Makes sense! A systems language isn't exactly something I would think of as a first choice for game logic.

[wide adder]

(That reminds me that i completely lost track of what happened after the Unity nightmare a while back, I might need to check how all of this ended)

[crystal wren]

It's... kinda acceptable now, but the trust is screwed.

That's pretty much my summary.

[safe dragon]

short answer: the existing versions of unity don't have the new licensing bullshit, the 2024 releases do

[wide adder]

Yeah, so nothing new since I lost track of it I see

[safe dragon]

nope

except people have moved on from hating on it actively

[crystal wren]

I would consider using it. Even Unity 6 with the new licensing stuff... if it didn't drive me mad no matter the licensing terms.

[safe dragon]

I don't make games but for some reason I keep a close eye on the development of a bunch of engines

[wide adder]

It was a few interesting weeks to say the least when all of it happened.
I've tried both Unity and Godot, but I can't keep focused long enough on a personal project to be able to actually learn using one of those two.
Making mods is far better suited for me x)

[safe dragon]

I like the tech behind it and I can see myself becoming an engine contributor but I will probably never make a game myself

[cinder karma]

Isn't there a joke about rust having 999999 game engines and no games?

Fwiw, I see their point. But, otoh, I find rust in a way easier to write than python because the compiler will tell me off

[safe dragon]

there are actually rust games believe it or not

there might be fewer rust games than there are rust game engines though

[cinder karma]

Crumble, do I look like i play video games?

Honest answers plz

[safe dragon]

I'm sure you don't have time cause u gotta mod

[cinder karma]

I'm spending my weekend stabbing a pcb with a sewing needle

[safe dragon]

sounds like a good activity

python just makes me feel bad when I use it so it doesn't matter how easy ti is

just feels like I'm commiting sins

I want my types

[cinder karma]

Ptoh I've been writing fpga code in fjcking LabVIEW

I'm about to throw fists

And rewrite it

[safe dragon]

you're the only reason I know labview exists

[cinder karma]

Entirely in verilog

I've got 300ns I cannot account for

Three hundred of them

Unacceptable

[safe dragon]

a whole 300 nanoseconds

[cinder karma]

(Yes, for some applications it is unacceptable)

[safe dragon]

oh I'm sure

fpga's are much lower level than I've ever dealt with

[crystal wren]

Not much thermal mass in a typical cheap sewing needle... must be some small-scale soldering!

[cinder karma]

Nah it's because they make for sharp probes actually

[sand frost]

Smaller than fingers!

[gilded hound]

I've been struggling with getting oscilliscope input in labview too. Its been my weekend

[pliant snow]

What if we gave you the ability to add types, but we also just ignore them if we want

[safe dragon]

it'd be cruel

[wide adder]

That's a question better suited for #making-mods-general

[high willow]

Oh, is it? Mb, thanks for telling me

[safe dragon]

man the thread in the bevy discord that spawned from this article is still goin. It's not at all about the article anymore at this point but it seems to have become long ass discussion thread

[pliant snow]

oh i read that article

[gaunt wadi]

This is incredibly cool

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72y2EC5fkcE

[scarlet hollow]

TIL (well, technically yesterday) if you want to get the number of tracked lines in a git repository, you can use

git diff --shortstat 4b825dc642cb6eb9a060e54bf8d69288fbee4904

And that'll give you the insertion/deletion breakdown specifically comparing head to 0th commit

[ivory shadow]

After a talk about the two ways a value-type's constructor can be called in #making-mods-general earlier, I was curious if using a local vs making a newobj had a performance implication, so I ran a benchmark. newobj is actually oh so slightly faster, from the look of it? ```csharp
[Benchmark]
public void TestOne() {
int total = 0;
for(int i = 0; i < 1000; i++) {
total += DoSomething(new Rectangle(i, i, i, i));
}
}

[Benchmark]
public void TestTwo() {
int total = 0;
Rectangle val;
for(int i = 0; i < 1000; i++) {
val = new(i, i, i, i);
total += DoSomething(val);
}
}

I've run the test several times, and they're pretty much tied but TestOne always executes very slightly faster. An infinitesimal difference, really.

[safe dragon]

I feel like these should compile the the exact same code

[ivory shadow]

The compiler could definitely optimize them into the same, but it does not appear to be doing that at an IL level. Maybe the native code is but the native code is at least slightly different and I'm shit at reading that, lol

[safe dragon]

well my test kinda failed cause it realized it could inline and completely delete the allocation of the object...

does C# have a way to enforce no inlining

it does

[cinder karma]

I'm surprised they aren't compiling to the same Assembly

I wouldn't consider sub 1 ns measurable tbh

[safe dragon]

it's easily within margin of error

even on an incredible stable machine with nothing else running

[cinder karma]

(A 3ghz machine has a clock cycle of .33ns)

So that is handful of clock cycles at bESt

[safe dragon]

With inlining completely disabled my example does indeed generate different assembly
https://godbolt.org/z/hEcnna9dx

really only two extra movs

not a conclusive test by any means

but yeah I can't imagine this ever making a measurable difference in practice

with a class instead of a struct they're identical

[cinder karma]

Yeah it's a struct it should not matter tbh

It's, what, 128 bits?

[safe dragon]

Interestingly with the class version it does not inline my simple DoSomething even with AggressiveInlining

it only inlines the struct version

[cinder karma]

Where are you sticking the aggressive inlinknf?

[safe dragon]

if you open the godbolt link you see where the NoInlining instruction was

for the struct implementation it's necessary else it just inlines my DoSomething down to four add statements and completely removes the allocation of a rectangle

the class version doesn't inline DoSomething regardless of what I put there

I don't have anything installed for C# on this machine I think so I can't really check further

[cinder karma]

I mean I'm at a Costco food court because I'm very dumb so

(Packed a lunch and left it on the kitchen counter)

It's monday

[safe dragon]

it happens...

though my office has a little "cafetaria" (a table with a few loafs of bread and toppings that you can grab from)

which is what most use instead of bringing anything

[supple ether]

man this would be nice to have for modding
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/api/system.runtime.compilerservices.unsafeaccessorattribute?view=net-8.0

[ivory shadow]

Very nice. Alas, .NET 6.

[crystal wren]

I do still wonder the feasibility of having SMAPI use .NET 8/9/future and running Stardew in that context.

Definitely tricker in terms of deployment at the very least...

[ivory shadow]

What is the point of CreateLabel() if calling it like this does not work ```csharp
return new CodeMatcher(instructions)
// We want to find Game1.outdoorLight = Game1.ambientLight; so we can jump to the bit after it.
.MatchEndForward(
new CodeMatch(in0 => in0.LoadsField(Game1_ambientLight)),
new CodeMatch(in0 => in0.StoresField(Game1_outdoorLight))
)
.ThrowIfInvalid("could not find last branch of lighting code")
.Advance(1)
.CreateLabel(out var label) // create a label on the next instruction so we can jump to it???

// Next, we want to find the start of the lighting block so we can add a branch that skips it
// all, depending on our own function call's return value.
.Start()
.MatchStartForward(
    new CodeMatch(in0 => in0.LoadsField(Game1_timeOfDay)),
    new CodeMatch(in0 => in0.Calls(Game1_currentLocation)),
    new CodeMatch(OpCodes.Call),
    new CodeMatch(OpCodes.Blt)
)
.ThrowIfInvalid("could not find initial time of day check")
// Insert our call + branch instruction
.Insert(
    new CodeInstruction(OpCodes.Call, assignOutdoorLight),
    new CodeInstruction(OpCodes.Brtrue, label)
)
.InstructionEnumeration();

(I am considering this off topic because it's Harmony-specific and I don't wanna spook the people doin JSON)

[cinder karma]

Does createlabel not attach it?

[safe dragon]

instead you're spooking me, unbelievable

[cinder karma]

Is there a function that is like create and attach label

Crumble you're purple

Too purple to be scared away

[safe dragon]

I may have been here the longest of any person in the entire server but I can still be spooked

[ivory shadow]

Ah, my dear atra, it's stupider than that. System.Reflection.TargetInvocationException: Exception has been thrown by the target of an invocation. ---> System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object. at HarmonyLib.CodeMatcher.CreateLabel(Label& label) at Leclair.Stardew.CloudySkies.Patches.Game1_Patches.UpdateGameClock__Transpiler(IEnumerable`1 instructions) in F:\Code\Stardew\StardewMods\CloudySkies\Patches\Game1_Patches.cs:line 301

I completely guarantee that there is an instruction at that position. So what the hell is null

And CreateLabel is an out method. public CodeMatcher CreateLabel(out Label label)

[cinder karma]

Did you inject the ILGen?

It needs that to make the label

[ivory shadow]

No. I assumed it would just... do its damn job?

lol

[ivory shadow]

Okay, do I just make a new ILGenerator instance and pass it in?

[crystal wren]

And I wouldn't expect that error if that was the issue... right? That doesn't just sound odd to me?

[ivory shadow]

Or is it an optional method parameter to my transpiler?

[safe dragon]

ok technically the one who has been here the longest without ever leaving and technically is still in the server is Twisted, one of the original admins

[ivory shadow]

Nevermind, I looked at the docs

[pliant snow]

chaining this many functions together makes me nervous, idk why

[ivory shadow]

Thank you atra I never would have guessed that was the issue. Harmony docs and errors suck so much

[safe dragon]

it's called a fluent api aquo smh it's all the rage

[pliant snow]

back in my day we were proud of our semicolons

[ivory shadow]

Me, a JavaScript dev: pfffffffffffffffffffffft you think this is chained function calls?

[safe dragon]

back in my days we defined callbacks in our callbacks in our callbacks

really though, fluent apis are really nice to work with most of the time

[ivory shadow]

Excellent, fixing that label made things work.

[cinder karma]

Yeah wish the error message was better tbh

I know brainzz hates the fact that sometimes we need to touch the ilgen explicitly

And sometimes not

And it really isn't well documented

Tbh no clue how I figured it out (2 or so years ago)

I'm pretty dumb

[ivory shadow]

Nah you're not

[safe dragon]

just cause u forgot ur lunch

[thin estuary]

No, this is how Brrainz/pardeike operates nowadays

Missing even basic validation

[safe dragon]

not ideal for a library

[crystal wren]

So what you're saying is that I have more validation in my mods?

[thin estuary]

undoubtedly

[crystal wren]

What does Harmony use under the hood? MonoMod?

[thin estuary]

yeah.

i'm slowly starting to think i could just... make my own Harmony library

[crystal wren]

That's going to be useful for my super early HC mods...

[thin estuary]

it's probably better if you stick to a library that's well known in the modding world

[crystal wren]

I think I probably ought to be able to manage prefixing and postfixing with MonoMod myself?

[thin estuary]

but it would be a nice challenge to make my own Harmony, definitely

changing the parts i dislike about the original

if the infix patches will end up being implemented the way pardeike wants to, i'll probably actually do it

[crystal wren]

How... how do they want to do them?

[thin estuary]

breaking transpilers basically

currently transpilers get the raw IL of the method

no prefix/postfix/finalizer IL

pardeike wants to implement infix patches in such a way, that transpilers would actually be ran after them

were you targeting some method call before, including some instructions before/after the call? it would be a shame if someone added an infix patch on that very same call

i'm looking at Harmony's code and... there really isn't much of it

[safe dragon]

just gotta pick a name that is thematically similar to Harmony but shows that it opposes it in ideals... Discord

[pliant snow]

perfect

[supple ether]

what I ended up doing instead was writing a method that generates delegates that return field references to the object they're given

[ivory shadow]

Harmony's AccessTools has a thing for that.

[crystal wren]

Shockah, I recommend Vulture for your Harmony replacement. Feels vaguely appropriate.

[supple ether]

does it?

[crystal wren]

...or Seagull. Same kind of logging, swooping in out of nowhere and screwing with everything.

[supple ether]

I stopped using it because I thought it was just glorified reflection

[supple ether]

if it's a monkeypatching library it shold start with an M I think.

macaw maybe

[crystal wren]

Yeah, that would fit with the naming scheme now I think about it...

[safe dragon]

Meddler

[crystal wren]

Has to be a bird!

[supple ether]

anyways this is what I ended up writing

public delegate ref TO FieldAccessor<TI, TO>(TI source);
internal static FieldAccessor<TI, TO> CreateFieldaccessor<TI, TO>(string name)
{
    var field = typeof(TI).GetField(name, BindingFlags.Public | BindingFlags.NonPublic | BindingFlags.Instance);
    if (field is null)
        return null;

    if (field.IsInitOnly)
        throw new InvalidOperationException($"Field {field.Name} on type {typeof(TI).FullName} is readonly and should not be ref accessed!");

    var dynMethod = new DynamicMethod(Guid.NewGuid().ToString(), typeof(TO).MakeByRefType(), [typeof(TI)]);
    var il = dynMethod.GetILGenerator();

    var throwex = il.DefineLabel();

    il.Emit(OpCodes.Ldarg_0);
    il.Emit(OpCodes.Brfalse, throwex);
    il.Emit(OpCodes.Ldarg_0);
    il.Emit(OpCodes.Ldflda, field);
    il.Emit(OpCodes.Ret);
    il.MarkLabel(throwex);
    il.Emit(OpCodes.Ldstr, "Cannot use field accessor on null object!");
    il.Emit(OpCodes.Newobj, typeof(ArgumentNullException));
    il.Emit(OpCodes.Throw);

    return dynMethod.CreateDelegate<FieldAccessor<TI, TO>>();
} ```

[safe dragon]

merlin...

[supple ether]

ooo

that's perfect actually

[supple ether]

oh, so it does. huh. didn't know about FieldRef.
well, at least now I have something that can do that without harmony if I ever need it

[cinder karma]

It does you can get field references

I don't use it personally but yeah

[eager dune]

All done super it was salad with chicken on top

[dapper sinew]

can anyone help with Linux stuff?

i kinda messed up pretty bad(i think)

[pliant snow]

uh oh

[dapper sinew]

i removed the drive of NixOS to tranfer it to another PC and now its not showing up on on either of my PCs as a bootable drive(ssd), i heard it was possible to do

[pliant snow]

was the bootloader on that drive?

[dapper sinew]

idk

im still new to Linux

can i make it be?

[pliant snow]

does your computer see the drive at all?

[dapper sinew]

yeah in BOIs it registers as SATAdrive

[pliant snow]

where are you looking for it to show up?

[dapper sinew]

as a bootable instance of NixOS

since ill be dual booting

[pliant snow]

So what needs to happen is that in your motherboard settings, you point it at one of your drives to be the bootable one. Then on that drive, you have a small partition which has something called the "bootloader", which among other things, will let you pick which OS you actually want to boot up to. Given that Nix booted up on your other machine, I would expect it to boot up to Nix if you point your motherboard settings at it as the default. Depending on which bootloader you have (probably GRUB or systemd-boot), you might need to add some configuration to give the other OS as an option (I'm assuming windows)

[dapper sinew]

thats the thing, its not showing up on the first PC either

its like it was never there

[pliant snow]

doesnt nix also have a hardware.nix file

[dapper sinew]

[pliant snow]

i would suspect you might have troubles if that's not updated correctly

So you put it back in the first PC?

[dapper sinew]

yeah

[pliant snow]

and its the only drive?

[dapper sinew]

no

there are multiple

[pliant snow]

I would go into your motherboard BIOS and see which drive its trying to use as the default

usually you have to reboot while hitting F2 or some key

[crystal wren]

(My theory is the bootloader is just on another drive, which is weird, because that's a very Windows thing to do. )

[pliant snow]

That could be the case since I assume Nix was installed later, and it might be using Window's bootloader

idk Windows enough to know how to make it add an entry into its bootloader

[dapper sinew]

hmm, it might be actually

since i dont think i saw a bootloader option when i did install

[pliant snow]

what does it normally look like when it boots up

like, what menu appears before the OS actually boots

[dapper sinew]

enters Grub and i can choose between NixOS and Windows

[pliant snow]

oh so it is GRUB then

[safe dragon]

you'd be looking for something with an efi partition on it but that'd require being able to check the partitions

[pliant snow]

surely the grub partition is on the Nix disc

[crystal wren]

Personally at this point, I'd just be booting from a live CD/USB drive and looking to see what's going on with the partitions.

[pliant snow]

yeah

[dapper sinew]

would Gparted work?

[pliant snow]

yes

[safe dragon]

yeah

[dapper sinew]

thanks

[thin estuary]

can NexusMods please add a bulk mod details API endpoint pls
so i can stop doing this bullshit https://github.com/Shockah/Nickel/blob/shockah/update-checks/Nickel.UpdateChecks.NexusMods/ModEntry.cs#L54-L158

(it's also WIP and doesn't really cache yet)

it's also my first time ever using C# async/await

[safe dragon]

as a web dev that feels very surprising

[thin estuary]

which part lol

[safe dragon]

first time using async/await

I live in async code

[thin estuary]

it just never comes up in game modding

games are very hard to parallelize

and i only ever do C# for modding, sooo

[safe dragon]

yeah it makes sense

[thin estuary]

but i guess i didn't get a chance to use Swift's async/await really either

but seriously, i have to do this stupid dance of requests now

[safe dragon]

it's interesting that in all these modding things I see in C# there's significant use of this while I essentially never see that used in my day job

[thin estuary]

ask for top 10 trending/updated/added, hoping to get some mods i need to check updates for, then try checking latest updates in the past month, but oh that doesn't have the version info, so i gotta do 1-by-1 checks ANYWAY

[dapper sinew]

Well then

Gparted is just black screen

[safe dragon]

not great

[dapper sinew]

Linux

its both great and a pain

[safe dragon]

it's not going to matter much in the grand scheme of things cause of the lack of bulk retrieval and all but you could in theory speed it up every so slightly by not awaiting the three tasks (latestAddedModsTask, latestUpdatedModsTask and trendingModsTask) sequentially but awaiting them together in a var results = await Task.WhenAll(new[] {task1, task2, task3})

because now it won't start retrieving updated mods till it's done retrieving the added mods

sorry for nitpick

unless nexus starts calling you names if you do three simultaneous requests to their api

[pliant snow]

h-how

[thin estuary]

I thought that’s already what I did by splitting it like that?

[dapper sinew]

idk

idk how to use anything

[thin estuary]

I specifically wanted to achieve the thing you said

[dapper sinew]

today has... not been a good day

[safe dragon]

hmmm I think you might be right. Apparently C# has a distinction between hot tasks and cold tasks... these would be hot tasks which means they run immediately and don't wait till they are awaited/started

still, it might be cleaner and show your intention more clearly to do it through WhenAll but it wouldn't matter (most likely)

could put some print statements and maybe sleeps in there to check

[thin estuary]

I guess for my particular use case WhenAll is fine. I’m surprised there’s no overload that returns generic tuples

So you could deconstruct the results back into variables easily

[safe dragon]

well they're overhauling the async/await system for .NET 9 so maybe...

we are getting an await foreach (var task in Task.WhenEach(tasks)) at least...

[dapper sinew]

Grrrrrrr

[safe dragon]

try parted

gparted is the gui application

[dapper sinew]

Ahaaaaaa

Thanks

Is there any way to get files from the drive?

If so I'll just reinstall

[safe dragon]

mount another storage device and just move the files I suppose

[dapper sinew]

This is stuffed but I think I have a way

[dapper sinew]

I gmailed my config files to myself

[pliant snow]

That seems harder to set up than the other methods, but at least you got then

[cinder karma]

Wake up Bae time to spend 30 minutes learning about obscure tech again https://youtu.be/TLm7Q92xMjQ?si=XUlzCKOUmS8525sg

[dapper sinew]

the drive was just not working with me

trust me, this is easier for me

a friend of mine will say the same as you lol

but i just cant sometimes with figuring stuff out

like physically and mentally

[sonic mirage]

Hey this one isn't four hours long and doesn't leave me thinking about how weird the phrase "causing the ceiling to leak through" is, so that's something

[sand frost]

wait I've totally wondered this

I should watch this video

[eager yoke]

Anyone know anything about Gradle plugins for Java and JavaScript? It's related to a Stardew mod I'm developing

[modest jewel]

little do i know about java, but gradle wasn't a type of compilation script available for different targets or something like that?

like "Make" and C

[eager yoke]

It does a bunch of stuff for Java

Currently downloading a Gradle plugin and trying to figure out where tf this readme wants to put the config block

[modest jewel]

which plugin?

[eager yoke]

https://github.com/Matyrobbrt/RegistrationUtils

This and smth else, but this is what's driving me nuts

[crystal wren]

The real reason to use a JetBrains IDE.

[cinder karma]

I need one but for insults

"Who is the dumbass who wrote this? Right, it was you. "

[crystal wren]

That's just the normal inline commit logs.

[safe dragon]

great extension

[gaunt wadi]

this is my favorite english one

https://github.com/SaekiRaku/vscode-rainbow-fart/blob/master/src/built-in-voice-packages/built-in-voice-english/arrow_function_01.mp3

oh man, that''s the vscode original which has a couple english ones which are pretty good

the intellij port one has some really good ones in chinese

https://github.com/izhangzhihao/intellij-rainbow-fart/tree/master/src/main/resources/build-in-voice-chinese

[toxic elk]

Whoops, wrong chat 😛

[ebon canopy]

Do I code my current project or start anew, choices choices

[pliant snow]

https://github.com/dylanaraps/neofetch

Neofetch has been archived

I didnt realize the last commit was 3 years ago

Looks like fastfetch is the best alternative

[safe dragon]

fast

performance truly is what I look for in a tool I run once to flex about using arch

[pliant snow]

it actually does show more info too

[thin estuary]

Do you need that info though

[cinder karma]

Yes

How to look like a hacker 101

Put that in your terminal

[pliant snow]

why do i have two IP addresses is the better question

[cinder karma]

Hollywood would cast that immediately

[gilded hound]

https://github.com/dustinkirkland/hollywood

This package exists, to make you into a true hacker

[pliant snow]

god theres a lot of fetches

theres some just for git projects

[safe dragon]

ok so question

why are there three of you

and why does it only add up to 86%

[thin estuary]

3 emails is my guess

And it might be limited to 3 and there’s more?

Or same email, but different name, whichever way it correlates accounts

[pliant snow]

yeah i think i changed my git email at some point

[deep drum]

Finally moved my home lab down to the basement, gotta get it set back up

[marble jewel]

Here’s my janky homelab. I’m hoping to get a proper setup in my next upgrade.

No basement in my house, so it'll have to live in a corner somewhere

[deep drum]

I’m so glad I could get my stuff downstairs, my servers SCREAM

[marble jewel]

My house isn't even wired, so I want to get ethernet setup in every room

[deep drum]

But now I have to run Ethernet and that’s a pain

My apartment now is old and has coax so I have MoCA adapters everywhere lol

[marble jewel]

I had to use those before, they worked pretty well actually

My old apartment was properly wired though, so I'm missing that

[fervent gorge]

may i know the stats?

[marble jewel]

The PC on the left is for running unRAID

[fervent gorge]

nice

but you should turn it off once in a while

[marble jewel]

The one on the right is for running proxmox

I only really restart for updates

[fervent gorge]

i understand

but still its not very good for the parts to leave em on for months

[marble jewel]

I've never heard of that before. Servers are intended to be running constantly.

[fervent gorge]

anyways if it works it works

[fervent gorge]

its true

[marble jewel]

In fact, turning servers on/off excessively can increase the risk of failure

[fervent gorge]

it just wears down parts

just bit lower life span for parts

[fervent gorge]

indeed

[marble jewel]

The main risk is overheating I suppose, but I have pretty good cooling and airflow, so they don't tend to run warm for too long

[fervent gorge]

ye

[marble jewel]

Other than when they're under heavy workloads. Which isn't too often.

[fervent gorge]

fair enough

[marble jewel]

But yeah, these things are always doing work for me. I have a bunch of self-hosted apps running so that I don't have to rely on Google or any of the other major corporate apps.

[fervent gorge]

nice

[marble jewel]

I think my self-hosting journey started ever since Google killed off Google Reader which I was heavily dependent on, and I vowed to not rely on things out of my control like that again if I could avoid it

[fervent gorge]

i have an old server for OLD pictures that my family likes

[pliant snow]

never plug a monitor into your server, ssh can sense fear

[fervent gorge]

W

[safe dragon]

y'all have a very different definition of janky than me

[marble jewel]

Well, it's not a "proper" rack which is what I meant

[safe dragon]

my ""homelab"" is a just a pc case on the floor next to my couch and router

[fervent gorge]

EVERYTHING is janky in my old ass server

[fervent gorge]

W

[pliant snow]

mine at least has a little table to sit on

[fervent gorge]

Double W

[marble jewel]

Mine is just a PC which is just slightly elevated from the ground

[fervent gorge]

i have an old ass pc i converted into a server for files my family doesnt want to loose

[marble jewel]

I think my original server was an old laptop

[lethal walrus]

you can do bios stuff from ssh?

[pliant snow]

oh never do bios stuff to a server

[lethal walrus]

there's a bios update going on in that image

[pliant snow]

gasp

bioses are meant to be looked at

not updated

[safe dragon]

I had to update my bios cause it didn't support my cpu on the factory version

[fervent gorge]

ima upgrade ma server to a 5600x and 32gigs of ram

and ima use it for bit of gaming too

[pliant snow]

Beautiful

[fervent gorge]

wheres the problem?

[pliant snow]

oh theres no problem

[fervent gorge]

yes

my wires look the same

[pliant snow]

i do wish i hadnt bought the largest case in existance

but alas

[fervent gorge]

extra space for cables

[pliant snow]

the bottom half is its entire own compartment under the motherboard

and the top and left right both come off, so its kinda nice

[fervent gorge]

nice

i just use an ATX case cuz da server was small

[pliant snow]

i do wish it had a better space for hard drives

two of them have nice little hot swappable bays

but the other two are just crammed down in there somewhere

[fervent gorge]

same

[marble jewel]

My cases are cramped. I want something way more roomy so I'm not having to squeeze everything in.

[pliant snow]

well hey, have i got a case for you

[fervent gorge]

i have a case with 2 harddrive spots and like 5 ssd slots

[pliant snow]

the case does have two optical drive bays, so someday i might get a hard drive adapter thing for there, but I cant be bothered

[fervent gorge]

indeed

i probably can squize a hard drive in the ssd slots

[crystal wren]

Getting ethernet to every room of my current house would be... yeah, that ain't happening.

[pliant snow]

it frustrates me to no end my apartment isnt wired for ethernet

[sand frost]

Just buy like 12 really long Ethernet cords

And snake them through the house

That’s what my house does

[crystal wren]

Primary stopper for me is England. Walls. Brick. Everywhere.

[pliant snow]

I've used those powerline adapters before

[crystal wren]

And yeah, that would be how I'd have to do it!

Either that or powerline stuff.

[pliant snow]

powerline... works

[crystal wren]

Isn't it generally fine for speeds, and just a bit of a hurt with jitter and latency?

[pliant snow]

eh, I had it set up for my girlfriends office and even then the speeds were dramatically worse than over wifi

[sand frost]

Just on the walls with janky tape

Old houses here too

[crystal wren]

All brick internal construction is great for some things!

Just... less great for others.

[pliant snow]

at one of my apartments, my bedroom closet with the network jack was through the bathroom.. So i had an ethernet cable run out of the closet, across the bathroom, down the hall, and finally into a space behind a bedroom door lol

[marble jewel]

If you have coax, the Moca adapters worked better for me than the powerline

[cinder karma]

Move then

Tbh powerline doesn't feel like it should work to me

Muh impedance control you know

[sand frost]

You can drill into brick if you need

[crystal wren]

Yeah, that's one thing I prefer. So much easier to position things that need to go on a wall. No need to worry about finding studs, being limited to where they are, etc.

[cinder karma]

You know we have drywall screws haha

Tbh I'm very surprised that powerline works at all

It feels like it should not

[pliant snow]

it really shouldnt

especially with more than one client, its dark magic

[sand frost]

Drilling light things into drywall is super easy

Finding the studs is only for heavy stuff like cabinets or storage hooks

[safe dragon]

love how almost all my walls are load bearing reinforced concrete I need specialized equipment for to even drill into

we've fucked up a drill before though trying to brute force it

[cinder karma]

Are you also European

[safe dragon]

yes, dutch

I will never forget the immense confusion I felt when I first saw a video from the US where someone punches a hole into their wall cause the only thing getting hurt if I punch any of my walls, even the non load bearing ones, is my hand

I've since learnt of the existence of drywall

we use it here too but I hadn't come across it before

though even that seems a lot more sturdy than whatever the fuck these people seem to have in videos where they damage their walls with a punch

[sand frost]

Some people just punch kind of hard, it’s not that difficult to break drywall

[safe dragon]

https://godotengine.org/article/introducing-reverse-z/

rough change...

[willow knot]

NOOOOO CUSTOM SHADERSSS

off topic

im a smart (trying to learn html and then go to javascript)

[safe dragon]

an expert web designer

[willow knot]

truly revolutionary code

[ivory shadow]

go to javascript

My condolences.

[willow knot]

yeah ill probably perish but

i am prepared(i have the coding for dummies all in one book i took out from the library and an html and i think c++ beginners book)

nope css

[pliant snow]

If its from the library, I assume its from like 2005

[willow knot]

im still gonna suffer but its nice ot have a ref guide to look thru

ope

actually

2022

the big book anyways

[pliant snow]

Well well

[willow knot]

the other one is 2021

[safe dragon]

damn

this book might actually teach you the right way to do things and not float: left and float: right

[gilded hound]

That's not the right way? 💀

I learned web design back in 2016 and I swear that's what all the courses taught

[ivory shadow]

Definitely more up to date than the last JavaScript book I bought. (I was like... nine? I think? I was an interesting child.)

[cinder karma]

I have that book too!

Also a matching Java one

The reader may note I know neither Javascript or Java

[ivory shadow]

I know both.

[marble jewel]

I used to have a pretty good collection of various computer books, but I got rid of them one of my moves ago. I realize I probably wasn't ever going to refer to them again, and they were just taking up space.

They looked nice behind me on the bookshelf in my office though

[safe dragon]

probably because they still wanted to support internet explorer...

[pliant snow]

I have a few still. The standard C, C++, and Rust ones, one on Linux and Ghidra, I think one on Nim

[safe dragon]

I have none

what the hell is ghidra

original authors: the NSA

alright

[pliant snow]

Ye

[gilded hound]

Ah the purgatory that drags me in a couple times a year. It's actually really fun to play around with

[crystal wren]

Holy hell, I remember Sams books.

[cinder karma]

To be fair my "doesn't know Java" also fixes Java code on the AoC subreddit all the time so

[safe dragon]

me with python

[ivory shadow]

Yeah, "not knowing" at a senior level is a lot different than "not knowing" at a junior level, lol

[strange copper]

Internet Explorer try to let flexbox work challenge (impossible)

[ivory shadow]

So glad IE died. Now we just need Safari to die.

Death to all web browsers that are tied to an OS's update cycle.

[lethal walrus]

Ghidra is nice

[gilded hound]

Ah my other nightmare

At one point, I had to do web dev for iOS, but I didn't own an iPhone. Drove me crazy

Safari for Windows didn't translate well to Safari normal

[sand frost]

as a user, I like safari

luckily I don't do any web dev

[lethal walrus]

Safari.. has Windows support??

[gilded hound]

There's an old version of Safari that you can download on Windows

[sand frost]

Apple is somewhat inconsistent about it, but does sometimes offer things for other OSs

there was iTunes for windows or something

I think they killed it though

[gilded hound]

Yeah they killed pretty much all windows support pretty early on

[ivory shadow]

At work, I refuse to do Safari support. I make other people do that.

If Apple wants me to make my stuff work on Safari, they should make Safari work on my stuff.

[crystal wren]

They do, though!

Your stuff just has to be Apple stuff.

[ivory shadow]

I don't own so much as an Apple charging cable.

[crystal wren]

I can technically charge modern MacBooks and iPads. That's... about it.

[pliant snow]

I think most people own apple charging cables at this point

[sand frost]

the usb-c switch has been so good

I can steal my friends cables now when I go over to play

instead of bringing my own

[ivory shadow]

Thank you EU for forcing Apple to actually use industry standards.

[crystal wren]

GaN chargers are ridiculous, though. The fact I can charge my laptop using something about a quarter the size of a typical laptop charging brick is great.

[marble jewel]

But muh innovashuns... /s

[pliant snow]

The weirdest thing about the whole charger situation was they were aggressively usbc on the macs really early, then didnt want to do it on the iphone

[ivory shadow]

They make a lot more money on charging cables for phones than they ever did on laptop/desktop accessories.

[marble jewel]

Kinda like how if Apple can't charge exorbitant developer fees, every iPhone will burn down to the ground with malware

[cinder karma]

Gonna love it when SiC hits

[ivory shadow]

It would be nice if the EU would slap down Apple for geofencing their compliance with the DMA.

[pliant snow]

Apple and everyone else

[marble jewel]

It'd be nice if the US took a similar stance, and it seems like we finally are starting to

[ivory shadow]

We've got way too much corruption in our politics to get proper regulations at a federal level. As long as companies can give politicians money... yeah, no, it's just not gonna happen. We've got enough problems with blatantly obvious things let alone anything with nuance that would negatively affect corporations.

[marble jewel]

Gone are the days that the government broke apart MaBell

[safe dragon]

so far apple has done a great job figuring the absolute worst possible way to comply with any regulations forced upon them

lawyers dedicated to figuring out how they can still be pieces of shit and still technically abide by some very disingenuous interpretation of the exact phrasing used in the regulations

[safe dragon]

meanwhile ipads have been using usb C for ages

it's all strange

[marble jewel]

I think part of iPads being the first to USB C is that they were trying to market it as a productivity tool, and the lightning port couldn't support some of the use cases they were trying to advertise it as

People were generally accepting of iPhones not having the higher data transfer rates because it's not too often nowadays that files are being transferred to/from it. It's all being synced to the cloud.

[safe dragon]

they've been marketing it as a productivity tool for so long while offering essentially no actual features you'd want in such a product

[pliant snow]

My concern is that in 10 years we'll hate USB-C but be legally mandated to keep using it

Thank god they didnt do this 10 years ago and force us to keep using micro USB

[marble jewel]

But it has Stage Manager and floating windows now, so it's like 85% a MacBook. You know except for all the applications.

[safe dragon]

I actually had no issues with micro usb

[sand frost]

🤷‍♀️ like, I have issues with Apple same as anyone, but genuinely iPads are good pieces of tech

I tried a few different things during covid because virtual teaching without touchpad is shit

and the iPad far outperforms (tbf it's probably more than I need)

[safe dragon]

I have an ipad pro that I use for editing photos in lightroom which I'd say counts as something they would consider a valid usecase but it's extremely frustrating

[sand frost]

I used to use it for marking up documents + Zoom teaching, I still use it for an electronic notepad + occasionally marking up documents

[marble jewel]

I use and iPad and it's perfectly suitable as the device that sits in-between my phone and pc needs

[safe dragon]

primarily due their lack of proper file system and their files app just straight up crashing sometimes with large files and just almost always crashing when usin smb network shares

[sand frost]

All my micro-USB cables are super fragile

[marble jewel]

Like, web browsing, chatting, some apps, on a portable touchscreen

[pliant snow]

My ipad is perfect for drawing and reading things with lots of pictures, but I don't use it for much else

[sand frost]

Maybe I just own super cheap micro-USB cables

[safe dragon]

I use a third party files app I paid for because apple's files app was just unusable

[sand frost]

My ideal phone is the size of like, two business cards, so an iPad perhaps fills more of a gap for me

[pliant snow]

I don't have any issues with SMB on the Files app, except that it'll forget the connection sometimes

[sand frost]

On the other hand, no one makes tiny phones anymore!!

it's a travesty

[pliant snow]

i dislike SMB in general tho and wish I didnt have to use it, but thats a different story

theres the zenphone

and uh

[sand frost]

I have small hands and I want to be able to hold me phone

[pliant snow]

iphone se

[safe dragon]

I can access network drives just fine from the apple files app(other than the forgetting issue) but it just crashes when I try to actually upload a batch of my photos to the share

[sand frost]

yeah i have a 13 mini or something

but it's honestly too big

used to have an se

[safe dragon]

they've stopped with the minis haven't they

[sand frost]

Yeah :/

The problem is that I want the features of a "flagship" type phone, but those are all big

I briefly looked at androids too and it seems the smaller ones are all catering to cheap

[safe dragon]

it seems like every attempt any manufacturer has made to introduce a smaller form factor phone series never ended up sticking around

[pliant snow]

i think the iphone mini line sold dramatically worse than the normal sizes, so they canned them

[sand frost]

I swear it's a conspiracy between phone manufacturers and women's pants pocket designers

[safe dragon]

yeah they did and instead they just made an even more pro edition

[sand frost]

Phone go in pocket!! this shouldn't be hard!!

I'll just use my mini until it can't be fixed anymore and see what's out there by then

I should have several more years left in it

[marble jewel]

I like the idea of foldable phones as being able to be my smaller phone and a tablet, but in practice the fold is too distracting to me

[sand frost]

I don't trust the engineering in foldable phones

[pliant snow]

everyone made fun of the duo...

[sand frost]

maybe it's gotten better

but it's like fundamentally a terrible idea for durability

I drop my phone like 5x a day

[safe dragon]

I have large hands so I don't really mind the large phones even for me I wouldn't mind them just being a little smaller cause even I can't comfortably touch stuff at the top of the display with my thumb

[sand frost]

I miss nokia phones tbh

but I like the internet

so, tradeoffs

[safe dragon]

nokia does technically make smartphones I think

[sand frost]

I don't think my hands are even that small for an adult woman, it's just that I guess most people use two hands or something??

[marble jewel]

I can get behind foldables long before I get behind this thing

[sand frost]

what is that??

[safe dragon]

the humane AI pin

[sand frost]

oh a mini projector

that seems bad

[safe dragon]

it is bad

[sand frost]

i'd rather have a smartwatch

[marble jewel]

Or this

[sand frost]

and I don't actually want a smartwatch

[safe dragon]

that one is also similarly bad!

[sand frost]

I'm pretty sure I would shatter the watchface

[marble jewel]

It's the first-wave of handheld AI hardware

[safe dragon]

I use a good ol regular analog watch

[sand frost]

why would I want that

I have a phone

[safe dragon]

yeah that's the issue with these products

they're just worse at something your phone can already do

[sand frost]

I used to wear one but it did not come out the other side intact

[marble jewel]

It doesn't fill a gap. It's trying to create a market where one doesn't currently exist.

[sand frost]

I've learned anything that lives on my hands needs to be extremely durable

[pliant snow]

First and last

[safe dragon]

I'm sure someone will try again

[pliant snow]

I own a product from the same design firm tho, and you can tell, they look very similiar

[marble jewel]

Like "instead of silently searching for things on your phone, how about speaking out loud and hearing the response back on a speaker instead of a screen?"

[sand frost]

I hate audio, that sounds terrible

all my devices are constantly silenced

[marble jewel]

Not to mention the rabbit thing is just an Android app, and hackers have already got it running on Android hardware

[safe dragon]

I legitimately don't think I have ever heard the ringtone of any of my phones

They've been on vibrate for as long as I've had smartphones

I do use media audio

though headphones in public obviously and even usually headphones at home

[cinder karma]

What the fuck

[safe dragon]

the rabbit r1

[marble jewel]

"Teenage Engineering" at work

[cinder karma]

Neither do I tbh

[safe dragon]

a 200 dollar very incompetent voice assistant

[marble jewel]

https://teenage.engineering/

[safe dragon]

tbh I think the device kinda looks neat

it's just that it's only looks

[pliant snow]

Their big product is the synth keyboard thing

I also have one of these, that they (clearly) designed

https://play.date/

[safe dragon]

yeah it reminded me of the playdate immediately

the difference is that the playdate actually has a selling point

[pliant snow]

its true, i would much rather recommend the playdate over the rabbit

[safe dragon]

it's a gimmick but at least it's something

the rabbit is just a worse voice assistant

[pliant snow]

some of the games are pretty fun

wheres the rabbits games huh

[safe dragon]

no games just a very unresponsible scroll wheel and a touch screen that's disabled for anything except the virtual keyboard

[pliant snow]

i suspect they'll update the scroll sensitivity

that just seems weird

theyre a big fan of analog controls tho, and i admire that

[safe dragon]

but the issue is that the wheel protrudes beyond the rest of the chassis so if you put it down somewhere it scrolls the wheel

[pliant snow]

maybe include a back button tho

i feel like half their issues couldve been solved with a second button

[safe dragon]

honestly that describes a lot of the minimal design tech in recent years

a lot of tech products could've been a whole lot better if they'd just had some actual buttons

sure love that they're trying to sell these touchscreen interfaces as a futuristic fancy innovation while they're actually cost saving measures

[pliant snow]

i not insignificant reason i chose my car is that it has actual dials and buttons lol

[safe dragon]

yeah I've heard a lot of cars nowadays have big touchscreens

[sand frost]

terrible

cars should have 0 touchscreen

[cinder karma]

Absolutely no touchscreen

[sand frost]

clicky buttons all the way

[safe dragon]

it's fine for like, on screen keyboard for satnav

[sand frost]

haptic feedback!!

I use my phone on a thingy for navigation

[pliant snow]

mine also has a touchscreen, but its used where it should be used

[sand frost]

I used to use "my phone dumped upside down in a cupholder"

[pliant snow]

I think i technically can use the dials for everything, but some stuff is better with touch

[sand frost]

but after a couple years I decided I could upgrade to a phone holder

[safe dragon]

so no touch screen just to adjust the direction your ac is blowing in?

something we've had a very competent solution for for a very long time

aka physically changing the direction

[marble jewel]

At least not until cars have achieved flawless self-driving

[pliant snow]

thats what the passenger is for

[safe dragon]

I don't/can't drive so the car woes are not something I experience

[pliant snow]

i think its possible to control the climate with the touchscreen, but ive always just used the physical controls

[safe dragon]

something I don't expect will ever happen

[pliant snow]

i dont want self driving even if they offered it

[marble jewel]

I think it's still awhile away, but I still expect to see it within my lifetime

[pliant snow]

i did learn how to add my car's stats to home assistant tho

[marble jewel]

I like the idea of taking an overnight roadtrip across the country while I sleep

[pliant snow]

since they gave me that stupid free trial i didnt want, I guess i'll put it to use

ignoring the fact they're grabbing that data at all

[marble jewel]

I just did a 12 hour roadtrip last week (and another 12 back), and it got me thinking, I wish I could overnight this

[safe dragon]

I like my trains and buses I've felt little need for a car

12 hour roadtrips

I could reach italy in that time

[marble jewel]

Not sure where you're from, but I could drive 12 hours and be in the same U.S. state from start to finish

[safe dragon]

there do be overnight direct trains from here to milan I think

the netherlands

[marble jewel]

And because of flight prices, it's more economical for 3+ people to get into a car than for each of them to buy tickets. (if you don't factor in the value of the added time)

[safe dragon]

and that's despite flights probably being a lot cheaper than they should be

I try to avoid flying but it's often just not an option to

[sand frost]

I was looking at trains in Europe and it makes me so jealous

[marble jewel]

I don't mind flying, in fact I'd prefer it to driving, but in this case I wanted to save some money, and I had a lot of things to bring to and take from my destination, so having the car space helped

[sand frost]

Trains every hour to even smaller cities

[marble jewel]

If only America had high speed trains, that would be nice

[sand frost]

We have like…one…sort of

[safe dragon]

every hour I feel should definitely be the absolute bare minimum for essentially any train service

[sand frost]

Ugh I wish

I took a train in Chicago where if I’d missed it would be 3 hours

[marble jewel]

Every major train project across America has been in development and funding limbo

Like they pour millions into projects that stretch a fraction of the promised distance

[sand frost]

The CA high speed rail…I want it…

[safe dragon]

yeah the US' history with trains(not counting freight) is pretty bad

[marble jewel]

I'll take a west coast train, please

My regular drive to visit home is WA to CA

[safe dragon]

it'll exist... eventually

[sand frost]

Yeah, maybe in my lifetime

Not sure about whether in my grandma’s

[safe dragon]

meanwhile china was building train networks to places that don't exist yet

[marble jewel]

China was building entire cities with 0 population

[safe dragon]

crucially all a "was" but hey...

[marble jewel]

https://allthatsinteresting.com/chinese-ghost-cities

[sand frost]

Someday I want to take the Taiwanese high speed rail down the length of the island

[safe dragon]

high speed rail is really nice

way nicer than planes or anything else I've used

[marble jewel]

It's good in that it stimulates their GDP, but also unless there is upkeep, the cities could fall apart before anyone ever uses them

[sand frost]

I’ve taken the Shinkansen and it was really nice

[safe dragon]

being able to just step into a train here and be walking around in the center london within 4 hours

and that's counting the passport checks and security

[sand frost]

Even low speed rail is nice tbh

And lacking in the US

[cinder karma]

Are we now trains

[sand frost]

There’s so many places it doesn’t go

Yes

This is #trains-off-topic

Didn’t you know? 😛

[safe dragon]

the dutch train network is quite good but also insanely expensive

unmatched in price by no one other than the swiss, who earn a whole lot more than we do

[sand frost]

The Swiss trains look really nice

[pliant snow]

I have riden swiss trains. I am now here with my expert opinion

[marble jewel]

https://tenor.com/view/all-aboard-train-choo-choo-express-locomotive-gif-20501901

[sand frost]

Are they in fact nice?

[safe dragon]

I have technically been in switzerland I am an expert

[sand frost]

I’ve only watched YouTube videos about them

[pliant snow]

they were pretty good

[marble jewel]

This should be programmers-off-topic the channel where programmers discuss anything and everything

[pliant snow]

idk if they were uniquely special

[sand frost]

Mostly linguistics and trains

And programming crimes

Like JavaScript

[cinder karma]

I mean yes

This is what it is

[safe dragon]

I'm not actually sure I've seen any moderators in this chat

[cinder karma]

You guys let me in despite me not being a real programmer

[safe dragon]

oh wait

[sand frost]

DH

[safe dragon]

yeah

a mod on break

[sand frost]

Heyyyy if you’re not, I’m super not

[safe dragon]

you guys let me in despite having no idea what sdv modding even is

as I stare in horor at contentpatcher

[pliant snow]

its sdv moderating

[marble jewel]

Nobody is a real programmer, we're all just faking it and no one has noticed yet

Computers are just an illusion

[gilded hound]

It is a nightmare

[pliant snow]

Case in point: Leah is just broken and i have no idea why

[safe dragon]

solution: rewrite leah in rust

[marble jewel]

You expect me to believe there's a magical box that does math using electricity and it can make images and sound happen. It's all just magic.

[pliant snow]

ah yes, a program thats entirely string manipulation

no thanks

[safe dragon]

smh rust strings aren't that bad

[sand frost]

Awww i think it’s nice

[marble jewel]

Just make all the bots into LLMs trained on the previous bots. What could go wrong?

[cinder karma]

Yes

[cinder karma]

Insert rust strings meme

[cinder karma]

We hit drops of water to flatten them

[marble jewel]

Next thing you're going to tell me is that you can make sand do math with some chemistry

[gilded hound]

Tbf, I'm definitely not a real programmer in the traditional sense. I study alternative computing lol.

[safe dragon]

why are we forcing things to do math

that's cruel

[gilded hound]

Oh yeah its great! It just scares me everytime I try to understand what's happening

[pliant snow]

they do math so we dont have to

[safe dragon]

I'm just horrifed by json being used as a programming language

[gilded hound]

yeah, should've used yaml at least

[marble jewel]

Why not program in .ini?

[safe dragon]

time to go back to xml

I have a colleague that'd be very excited about that

I know nothing about the guy other than that he loves xml

and that he's polish I suppose

[pliant snow]

po(xm)lish

[safe dragon]

poxmlish

[marble jewel]

XML is too expressive, we should be programming in csv

[safe dragon]

no no no

xlsx

[cinder karma]

Please Matt

[marble jewel]

Good point, definitely should use an IDE like Excel

[cinder karma]

If you don't program by rearranging individual electrons

You aren't a real programmer

[sand frost]

I’m going to need much smaller needles

[gilded hound]

Powerpoint!

[ivory shadow]

I am very behind but having caught up with the conversation, all I have to say: give women better, bigger pockets in our pants, dang it.

---

I write HTML for my day job that is more than enough XML. No one is allowed to use XML for anything else.

[safe dragon]

I love dealing with imports and exports at work from excel files where everything explodes because dutch and english use a different decimal separator and excel is culture dependent

[gilded hound]

Hmm annealing machines are pretty close to that

[safe dragon]

I love dealing with excel deciding random shit is a date

next thing you know excel is interpreting numbers as epoch timestamps

[marble jewel]

Women should have pockets, and men should be allowed to carry purses without being judged

Sometimes my pockets are all buldgy and stuffed, and I wished I had another method of carrying my things

Backpack too big, maybe I'll bring back the fanny pack

[cinder karma]

I extend the pockets of all my clothing

[safe dragon]

I recently learnt that /> doesn't actually do anything in html other than for the contents inside of an svg as per the spec

[marble jewel]

https://tenor.com/view/dwayne-johnson-fanny-pack-the-rock-gif-8972964

[ivory shadow]

Honestly yeah, normalize people having bags. There's so many useful things to carry with you.

[marble jewel]

My EDC is so limited just having pockets to put things in

[safe dragon]

I have a backpack with me at all times

phone is in pocket though and stuff like keys and cards are in my jacket

[sand frost]

I carry a messenger bag most places, but it’s very freeing to only have pockets

[marble jewel]

I used to do a messenger bag, but it didn't feel good on my shoulder

[ivory shadow]

It is, but phones and pockets being what they are ...

[sand frost]

On days when I go out without a bag, it’s much easier to walk a long way

I use my winter jackets for pockets

[cinder karma]

I always have a backpack

[safe dragon]

when I don't have my backpack on my back while outside it just feels horribly wrong

like I just forgot something crucial

I've gone on a lot of walks with a backpack on my back despite nothing being in it and me not buying anything just out of habit

[marble jewel]

I used to wear a coat everywhere solely for having coat pockets

[cinder karma]

I also extend my pockets

[safe dragon]

I'd die without a coat 95% of the year

I struggle in summer every time as I try to figure out where to put my cards and keys

cause they live in my inner jacket pocket normally

keys are uncomfortable and lumpy in a pocket

[strange copper]

Opening a tiny PR on someone else's repository is way scarier than it should be

[restive jacinth]

Any .NET developers here? Why does .NET break when an dll is symlinked?

[dire kayak]

are you getting this error?

The managed DLL bound to this executable: '<original-name>.dll', did not match own
name '<symlink-name>.dll'.
A fatal error was encountered. This executable was not bound to load a managed DLL.

[restive jacinth]

You must install .NET to run this application.

App: /home/jh-devv/.local/share/Steam/steamapps/common/Stardew Valley/StardewModdingAPI
Architecture: x64
App host version: 6.0.27
.NET location: Not found

Learn about runtime installation:
https://aka.ms/dotnet/app-launch-failed

Download the .NET runtime:
https://aka.ms/dotnet-core-applaunch?missing_runtime=true&arch=x64&rid=nixos.24.05-x64&apphost_version=6.0.27

If the DLL is symlinked, I get that

https://github.com/dotnet/runtime/issues/24655 ?

[dire kayak]

would suggest checking the .net core framework via environment variables but the issues are deeper than that

.net is very inefficient and unoptimised

symlinks are used in windows/.net tho

but theres no built in api for it

you need to create symlinks using the CreateSymbolicLink method

also could be an issue that youre on x64

the only working symlinks ive seen are on x32

windows spagetthi code

[pliant snow]

Yeah, you need to make sure it's an actual symlink and not a shortcut/alias or whatever, there's a difference

[dire kayak]

ye

the dll needs the exact same name as exe that its embedded in

[deep drum]

JS bad, TS good. I'll die on that hill

[ivory shadow]

Please refrain from dying on any hill involving JavaScript in any way.

[safe dragon]

if I find Javascript on any hill I'm leaving

[deep drum]

my hills only involve typescript, I'm safe.

I don't think there's any reason to learn vanilla JS in 2024 when you could just learn TS instead

why hurt yourself

[ivory shadow]

Because you should know what your code compiles into?

[deep drum]

the same language but without type hints tbf

and a funny "use strict"

[cinder karma]

Got it learning python bytecode

[safe dragon]

tbh the biggest bottleneck to people "learning Javascript" is the culture around learning a specific library instead of the language. Typescript is mostly fine by comparison

[deep drum]

[safe dragon]

imma learn BEAM bytecode

[cinder karma]

I can't believe Javascript is actually hard tbh

Fucky maybe

But not hard

[deep drum]

that's actually a really good point

honestly I resent it for being so convenient to use some of the time

[ivory shadow]

One of these days I need to completely revamp how the smapi website frontend is authored to allow for TypeScript + Vue + UnoCSS

[safe dragon]

smh Vue is old news it's all about uh... htmx I think unless that's now also no longer the cool kid

[deep drum]

I guess it really depends what you're targetting... All of my configurations compile to ESNext which has all the fun new features so it's basically equivalent to the TS but with name mangling and a bit of rearranging

[ivory shadow]

We need a native dark theme and I need to fix the mod compatibility page's performance like I did the log viewer

[ivory shadow]

Yeah. Some of us aren't allowed to target esnext.

[deep drum]

yeah, completely fair. Most of my frontends that I design are for robotics tools or stuff like that so I don't have to worry about browser compat

[safe dragon]

I have a project that gets warnings whenever I use anything beyond ecmascript 2016

[deep drum]

I'm also the person maintaining my company's UI framework, so I can personally keep it up to date lol

https://tenor.com/6hJA.gif

[safe dragon]

that project also still uses jquery 1 though so ecmascript is the least of its problems