programmers-off-topic

[dapper sinew]

oh im currently making my own mod!

but its techinally build and changed from tutorial code... granted its nothing like it anymore lol. which is what i mean by cant code from scratch

since i read the tutorial and learned why stuff worked i can now code from that, but i still need that buffer piece if that makes sense

[uncut seal]

@solar junco the downside of hiding unused UI...

[solar junco]

following tutorials? 😂

[uncut seal]

no, I meant not knowing about a discord channel (but it was just a joke anyway)

[solar junco]

oh LMAO I'm so tired my brain couldn't connect the dots

YEP that is a downside

but the benefit of not having to scroll for 5 minuts to reach the 3 channels I use on this discord outweights the negative 😂

[uncut seal]

yeah I know, I hid most of the channels of this server since I'm never using them

[strange copper]

Does C# want you to compare strings with .Equals() like Java or is == equality safe in this land

i guess moreso what is the convention since it looks like it's safe to == comparison for general string/string comparisons

[tranquil grove]

Just use == if you want a simple comparison, but Equals() has overloads that accept a StringComparison mode for case-insensitivity and such (plus the more esoteric stuff). Keep in mind that string1.Equals(string2) will throw an error if string1 is null, but you can use string.Equals(string1, string2) to avoid that.

(more to the point, I've always seen == preferred in C# for normal strings )

[pliant snow]

Thats very brave. Nixos was maybe the most developer unfriendly distros ive used

[gilded hound]

😩 I do a lot of different types of development, and on different environments on a daily basis, so NixOs ends up being the easiest way to keep things consistent.

[pliant snow]

i ran into lots of issues just getting LSPs and stuff set up

it was a lot of just making my own bin directory, which kinda defeats the point

[gilded hound]

Interesting, it works fine for my use case. I mostly work on simulation/ML which involves working a lot with clusters I have no real control over. Normally this is delt with solely by docker, but I find Nix flakes with docker to be pretty much the perfect solution to all my problems.

[cinder karma]

Question: why are my pin numbers not zero indexed

[cinder karma]

I now know more than I'd like about invisible walls in a very old game I've never played

[safe dragon]

pannenkoek2012 strikes again

annoying Dutch people by mispronouncing the word pannenkoek since 2010

[dapper sinew]

anyone know how to batch make symlinks on Linux?

i have multiple files i need symlinked and i dont wanna type em all out in different commands

[pliant snow]

I mean, the obvious answer would be to put them in a folder and just symlink the folder

otherwise, if they have a common naming structure, you could do it in a loop

[dapper sinew]

ahh im needing it to update retroactively, im symlinking my windows install and Linux install of Stardews content stuff and mods

[pliant snow]

I'm not too familiar with sdv modding, I guess it's not simple enough to just symlink some mods folder then

[dapper sinew]

oh it is

im just symlinking the content and other files as well

its like 6 total but im lazzzyyyyy

[pliant snow]

yeah, unless they have a pattern in their name and you can use some wildcard, I think you just have to specify them

[dapper sinew]

dang

welp, ill stop being lazy then

[paper adder]

what mod are you making??

[dapper sinew]

QOL mod

along with it making some stuff a bit more challenging

[paper adder]

what do you have in mind to make life more quality

[dapper sinew]

im trying to eventually give every item a use

along with making stuff more connected

example, i changed the seed maker to have a chance to fail, which outputs fiber, but that fiber can be composted into fertizers

so you in theory only need to throw stuff out in the mid to late games

unless youre one to make whole factories

[paper adder]

turning stardew into factorio would be so epic tho

i like that idea, though does it not just kind of nerf the seedmaker? unless fiber is really that great

fertilizer is useful

[dapper sinew]

i did it :3

batch symlink

[paper adder]

what's that

[dapper sinew]

it nerfs it yeah, but i then made it easier to get and earlier to get

[paper adder]

i know what batch files are, not symlink

[dapper sinew]

uhhh google will be able to explain it better since i barely know myself, but they are basically links to other files but... better and useful

[pliant snow]

I'm not quite sure that qualifies as batch lol

[gaunt wadi]

symlinks are short for cinnamon links, they're links that are great in pastries and other baked goods

[dapper sinew]

batch mean all in one go

to me at least

[pliant snow]

Dont lie to them. Theyre simian links, named after the chain of monkeys that connect them together

[leaden marsh]

symlinks are symbolic links. a basic explanation is that they can serve as an alias/another name for a file, with some caveats

[leaden marsh]

it's a little confusing, because Batch (in the scripting context) tends to refer to the Windows Batch files, the script file for DOS/Windows

[leaden marsh]

Is there a reason it has to be a one-liner? Typically the advantage of using a shell script would be to allow for several commands to be done in sequence, with better readability

[dapper sinew]

Because I could do. "Replace all" in vs

I was lazy

[dapper sinew]

Ahh true my bad

[leaden marsh]

Well congrats on getting it working! Excited to see what comes of your modding journey

[dapper sinew]

[ivory shadow]

Wonder if I should include https://gist.github.com/KhloeLeclair/51a988d6c522fc7fa4e24fc13fb0c0fc in my as-yet unreleased mod monorepo starter template. 🤔

[crystal wren]

I suppose it depends on your target audience for the templates...

I know a whole bunch of Stardew modders probably wouldn't touch that, but a handful that would.

[ivory shadow]

Yeah, I've got no clue really just figured a starter project would be nice for people. I should really keep it simple.

The common project mainly has something in it just to show off how to use the common project.

[crystal wren]

https://nvd.nist.gov/vuln/detail/CVE-2024-2961

Just a 24-year-old bug in glibc, particularly exploitable through PHP. Fun!

[lethal walrus]

fun indeed

[thin estuary]

heh https://github.com/Shockah/Cobalt-Core-Mods/blob/master/_Shared/ReflectionExt.cs

[ivory shadow]

Oh right, I should add property stuff

I only have fields.

[cinder karma]

is this what they teach in ui devs school?

[ivory shadow]

I have never actually been to UI school, but that seems like the kind of thing someone who teaches would come up with.

It would also explain Microsoft's love of ribbon UI in Office and Windows.

The problem with "rectangular menu" is that it's trying to reinvent the wheel. The wheel being toolbars. We already had those. And rectangular menus make things problematic the moment you introduce sub-menus as a concept.

Pie menus are very nice in the right situation, but they are situational.

[pliant snow]

i feel like the ribbon menu is the exact opposite of what that picture wants to encourage

[ivory shadow]

The ribbon menu is pretty much exactly what the rectangular menu in that image is

[pliant snow]

eh, i think its closer to the linear one on its side, although there are some stacked items, i think thats more because they run out of screen space lol

[ivory shadow]

Just because Microsoft did a shit job implementing it, doesn't mean it isn't a rectangular menu, lol

I just don't like rectangular menus as a concept. Again. Give me a toolbar.

Put the money toolbar in the bag UI.

[pliant snow]

you'll get a pie menu and you'll like it

[cinder karma]

is it weird I don't....hate the menu MS does?

until I need to opne a new file, and suddenly I lose the ability to find anything

[safe dragon]

I think the ribbon is a fine design strategy

pie menu though... I thought it was called a dial menu

[crystal wren]

The pie menu is great for stylus based inputs for sure.

[safe dragon]

radial menu or pie menu...

where did I get dial from

the pie menu is great in steam input

for joysticks

[cinder karma]

Pie is fine for controlers or controller-like behaviors

I don't want to see it anywhere else

[marble jewel]

Also UI is influenced by input devices which there are more now than ever

[pliant snow]

you can set a pie menu in steam input?

[safe dragon]

yes

[marble jewel]

There is no one size fits all ui

[safe dragon]

steam input calls it radial menus but same thing

they're handy especially for games that assume you have a whole list of keyboard shortcuts available

[cinder karma]

tbh also it depends on like, what' you're doing

my least favorite ui thing is when I have to dig through nine million menus to figure out how to, say, set <insert random CAD attribute> to <different material>

[safe dragon]

checks Edit menu... nope
checks Tools menu... nope

I'm not even thinking of a specific app for that one... it's in so many

for very complex programs I just want a search tool which then in its result also tells me where to find it in the future

gonna redesign VS Code to use a ribbon instead of the command palette thing

(I love the command palette)

[cinder karma]

Another software I use thinks ¥ is a character people should type often

[safe dragon]

I once had to set my windows region to japan for some visual novel and all my / characters turned into that one

I guess you might type it often... if that's your currency symbol

meanwhile I use the euro and have no idea how to type one so I always copy paste it from somewhere

[lethal walrus]

isn't it alt graphic + 4

[safe dragon]

it is when I set my keyboard to use the dutch language mode on windows computers

not that I have an alt gr key currently set up on my keyboard layout

I could just add a euro symbol to my symbol layer

but I don't type it often enough to have bothered

[lethal walrus]

ah

[safe dragon]

got the essentials...

[lethal walrus]

do you press some modifier to get that

[safe dragon]

yeah the middle bottom key on my right thumb pad

[lethal walrus]

i'm assuming you don't have a seperate keyboard for symbols

[lethal walrus]

ah

[safe dragon]

I've been using split keyboards for quite a while at this point

[lethal walrus]

why is f11 and f12 on both?

[safe dragon]

idk why they're not just transparent like the rest on my symbol layer

it's the same spot

[lethal walrus]

ah

[gray moth]

What version of Visual Studio is currently the best?
I've been using a older 17.2.3 until recently, but updated to the latest version since I needed .net 8 for a mod I am maintaining and it's god aweful.
Everything is slow and basic features (like ctrl+click to go to definition) kind of don't work

It's honestly impressive just how much worse it got

[safe dragon]

uh idk for me the best version is generally just the newest version

haven't had any serious issues on recent versions

well, new ones anyway

[gray moth]

are you using win 11 by chance?

[safe dragon]

was required to by work yes

I only use visual studio for work

[dapper sinew]

grrrrr ST isnt working

i love that terminal but NixOS is saying

[gaunt wadi]

@pliant snow https://save-nix-together.org/

spicy

https://nixos-users-against-mic-sponsorship.github.io/

[dapper sinew]

i have no clue what any of that is

im new to NixOS lol

[pliant snow]

well then

[safe dragon]

spicy

[pliant snow]

it wouldnt be an open source project without people making a big fuss about things

[safe dragon]

it seems to be a little more than average though

hyprland drama has yet to result in this at least

[pliant snow]

something tells me nothing will come of this letter

[safe dragon]

some people will leave the project but none of em are probably going to be the one this letter is about

[dapper sinew]

btw, anyone here gotten Reshade to work on Linux?

[safe dragon]

I don't even know what that is so no

[pliant snow]

i didnt think it was something anyone had working on linux

[safe dragon]

this sounds kinda like some other project... that I forgot the name of

it was some pun on vulkan

vkBasalt

right

basalt cause vulcanos...

looks like vkbasalt supports reshade shaders(at least some of em)

I give it a 10% chance you can get reshade itself working decently

[pliant snow]

i tried looking to that at one point i think

I also def played thru a game with a custom shader a year or so ago... but i dont remember how i did it

[ivory shadow]

I had to do a meme edit after a discussion with someone.

[marble jewel]

This needs to be a command

Reminds me of this one

!god

[indigo mist]

To use this command, type !god.

[wide adder]

I'm pretty shocked that nobody has put DOOM in Stardew Valley yet to replace either JotPK or Jumino Kart at the arcade machines

[thin estuary]

not DOOM, but... #making-mods-general message

[wide adder]

Wow that's amazing !

[thin estuary]

libretro is fun

[uncut seal]

that's sick af

I have a question about what is possible modding-wise, I'm currently making a Framework for Highly Customizable Furniture, and for now I managed to do it through Harmony and without having to modify the game's save data. But my next step is customizable hitboxes and according to what I understand from the code, it would require to patch A LOT of methods through Harmony.

What I think could make it easier is to derive a CustomFurniture class from the vanilla Furniture class and overwrite the methods I want to change.
My issue being : is it possible at all to have the game instantiate a CustomFurniture instead of a Furniture when it encounters a furniture added by my Framework? And how would I do that?

[crystal wren]

You could do that with about a million individual transpiler targets!

[thin estuary]

i'm not sure it's the best idea to cross-post from #making-mods-general

[crystal wren]

But yeah, this is more on-topic than off.

[uncut seal]

Sorry, I didn't see that I had answers

[willow knot]

okay so ive been tossing this idea back and forth in my mind but i cant get it to wirk

i want to make like a log system where i can input a new entry into the shell and it creates a new log with the entry number 1 above the last one (is the last entry was entry one, this one is assigned as entry 2)

but getting this to work properly has been

a pain

is there a way to like

logname = lognumber + 1

but like update lognumber each time a new entry is created so lognumber doesnt reset every time the program is opened

also like

im thinking the logs could be written to a seperate file but then whats the point of having the system if you can just open taht txt file

mauybe i can save them as strings but like

[safe dragon]

where are the logs being sent or stored in this case

[willow knot]

im trynkg to decide becuasei cant get my write to file to wor

it says the path doesnt extist but i checked the path and it does but im just confued

i write half this while high so uh its rough but heres what i have soi far

im suree theres some command or something that i dont know how to use or something i just havent learned yet so if the answer is obvious please excuse me

i had the ("/Desktop/logdata.txt") with "a" at the end before idk why i got rid of it

ok i readded teh append

dont mind the readlog so much rn thats for later

i toyed with the idea of putting them into a dictonary but i dont know how to make it not read the whole dictonary at once

[safe dragon]

can't imagine that path is correct. From where are you running the file?

[willow knot]

ohh

wait

ok hold on

do i have to have them in teh same folder bc i did that and it didnt work

lemme try smth

[safe dragon]

If it comes from desktop I'd use the absolute path. So the whole C:// shebang

else you'd use a relative path and remove that first slash at the front

[willow knot]

a relative path is if like

im going down the directory from where the py is right

[safe dragon]

yeah

[willow knot]

what if theyre in the same folder

[cinder karma]

Question for the general public

[willow knot]

or would i have to make a new folder so it goes down the directory

[cinder karma]

If I say "right angle banana" do you know what I mean

[safe dragon]

open("input.txt") will look for a file of that name directly in the same folder as the py

[willow knot]

a banana thats like not curved but has a right angle

[safe dragon]

no

[willow knot]

would this work if

this is the case

[safe dragon]

the open should work at least

[willow knot]

excuse the mess im on my laptop but this is what i thought of atra

[safe dragon]

I'm not familiar with python so idk how it does things here

[willow knot]

hmm ok lemme try it

ok i got it to write it into the logdata.txt! thats good

lets see here

now my issue is

i want to assign that lognumber to whatever the new logentry is

so when i go to readlog i can type in the lognumber and it spits out the entry associated with it

but i dont know how to do that....

[pliant snow]

In python it's also often suggested to do like

with open("path/to/file", 'r') as my_file:
  # Do stuff with my file

which will automatically close when youre done

[willow knot]

ooh that shortens things

[pliant snow]

If you always want it to increase I think you have a few options.

• If you won't ever delete old entires, just get the number of log files and add one
• If you do plan on allowing deletion of entires, you could find the largest filename and add 1
• Or, store the index value somehow (which is how things like SQLite does it)

[willow knot]

okay i know what i have to tackle now: linking lognumber with the logentry, making sure the logsequence doesnt reset whenever i start program, and getting the reading to work

all the entries wil be on one file

it not creating a new file its just appending to the end

[safe dragon]

in real world scenarios you'd probably use something better suited than a text file to achieve that but the simplest possible approach would just to read from the file how many "lines" there already are in the file and just using that + 1

[pliant snow]

I was gonna say, this sounds perfect for a SQL database

[willow knot]

ok so

this is a box im gonna have to open

what would be better suited to this than a txt file

bc i was encountering the issue anyways taht if it writes it all to a text file anwyas theres no point to the readfile

[pliant snow]

The usual recommendation is that putting stuff in a txt file is fine if you're just writing stuff out for humans to read, but if the program is going to have to read it back, there are more ideal methods

[willow knot]

i want it so that i can input text data and have it sotred under a lognumber and then later input that number and it read back the text taht was written for taht log

also lemme just look up sql database rq

[pliant snow]

A perfect task for a SQLite database

thats literally what Bouncer does

[safe dragon]

sqlite is a good place to start cause you're working with a simple file still

[pliant snow]

Yeah, other SQL versions exist, which can store things in more or less the same way, but many of them are programs that you have to have running whenever your python program runs (which is fine on a server, a huge pain on your desktop computer), but SQLite is just a fancy file saved on your drive

You can sort of think of SQL databases as excel spreadsheets, but ones that computers can access very easily

But are more towards combining different tables together than doing weird equations

[safe dragon]

simplest alternative is some simple document database cause key: value pairs is about as easy as it gets

sqlite doesn't scale too great at the very high end but that's completely irrelevant in this case

[willow knot]

YEAH

oops caps

[safe dragon]

it also doesn't have the sheer number of features something like postgres would have

[pliant snow]

You could use the autoincrease functionality, but idk if you can have it spit out what that autoincrease value is without a second query..

[safe dragon]

you don't really need to anyway. The auto generated id is basically already what you want you don't even need an extra field

[willow knot]

do i do the uh pre release of the source code download

[pliant snow]

Are you on windows?

[willow knot]

yeah

[pliant snow]

You might have it installed

if you run python

then import sqlite3 what happens

[willow knot]

like this (i did this once befpre but forget how i did it sorry)

[pliant snow]

perfect

thats what you wanted

its already installed

[willow knot]

sweeeet

ok awesome awesome awesome time to figure this out

so i can use this database to pair a lognumber with the logentry?

since its like a table

ok time to do a lot of googling

THERES A KEYWORD INDEX

id have to add run sqlite at the top of my code tho yeah

[safe dragon]

1. connect to the database(the file)
2. create a table if it doesn't already exist due to some previous setup process
3. insert a new row into that table

[willow knot]

ok how does

ok ok ok let me get my brain in order

connecting to the database is "the file" a seperate file or

[safe dragon]

gotta learn some SQL. A useful skill to have tbh in almost any tech field

[willow knot]

ok

any like place oyu rec me starting

like where did u learn

or do i just gotta raw dog it into google search

[pliant snow]

https://docs.python.org/3/library/sqlite3.html#sqlite3-tutorial

This might be a good start

[willow knot]

oh fuck yes

thank you both so much

[safe dragon]

yeah the

import sqlite3
con = sqlite3.connect("somename.db")

[willow knot]

i really appreciate it

[safe dragon]

it'll autocreate the file if it doesn't yet exist

[willow knot]

oh sick

and just so i have all my stuff straight con is short for connect right

[pliant snow]

the trick is that if it doesn't exist, you'll have to run a step to set it up the way you want. But if it does exist, you dont want to overwrite what's already there

[pliant snow]

connection, yeah

[safe dragon]

you could probably get away with just a create table if not exists query you execute first

[willow knot]

mmk

[safe dragon]

in bigger projects you'd have some setup file to create the initial database for you the way you expect it

with migrations and all sort of stuff

but starting simple...

[pliant snow]

h-haha yeah totally

[safe dragon]

to be fair, the database isn't the complex part of your programs

for you

[pliant snow]

it's making it idiot proof

[cinder karma]

To be fair I didn't say jack or plug but this is a right angle banana

[willow knot]

oh

[safe dragon]

why call it a banana...

[pliant snow]

the other end is the banana

thats the socket

[safe dragon]

I'd have understood a right angle plug

[pliant snow]

.img banana plug

[heavy dagger]

https://images.thdstatic.com/productImages/a23de3a1-32d9-4792-ab9f-7c3663d84428/svn/commercial-electric-cable-connectors-y293035-40_600.jpg

[pliant snow]

the metal tips kinda bow outwards like a banana

[safe dragon]

with some imagination

[pliant snow]

yes

[safe dragon]

honestly I gotta stop using postgres for little hobby projects it's so inconvenient

I'll just use sqlite next time...

[pliant snow]

I haven't used a non-sqlite database since college I think

governor 100% shouldn't be still using it, but here i am

[safe dragon]

most of my work is based around working with some far too big and complicated MSSQL database

[ivory shadow]

Postgres for life

[pliant snow]

I probably should start looking into something like postgres... doing what I'm doing with sqlite is probably not advised

I like just having a file tho

[safe dragon]

has it ever actually caused problems

does it look like it might cause problems soon...

[pliant snow]

the only time I've had any issue was I think because of the SQLite GUI I was using

[willow knot]

i see here how to call data using the data inputed, but how do i call using the auto cenerated id like you mentioned crumble? im a little lot on that since im scrolling though and i dont think theres anything pointing to that

[ivory shadow]

The bot is probably single thread single process right? Nothing wrong with sqlite for that

Sqlite is used for some pretty big and popular projects too. It's stable and good enough.

[pliant snow]

Each of the commands do run asynchronously, but yeah. I think the more significant thing I did was mount the SQLite file into two different docker containers so both the webpage and bot could access it lol

granted, the webpage is read only

so im not in any hurry to really change it

[safe dragon]

in this case you can just use rowid which is a built in column sqlite create when you define a table unless you specify a primary index.
The id column already automatically increments by default so it's basically done for you

[willow knot]

ok

ok lemme try this

[safe dragon]

CREATE TABLE logs (
   log_entry TEXT NOT NULL,
);

it'd probably help if you get some program that can help you look at what your database looks like

and query on it

[willow knot]

hwews what im dealin with. thinking i can cur.excecute (SELECT) using the number = rowid

[safe dragon]

I'm gonna switch to a pc I'm gonna go nuts trying to type code on a phone screen

[willow knot]

and then print row

fuck i gtg i need to helo my mom with grocery shopping

im bringing a notebook and some pens with me tho so i can try and write this down on paper and get it sotred out in my mind

unjumble my thoughts

thanks for all the help so far

[pliant snow]

I've never used cursor() before

[safe dragon]

idk about this scenario but cursors in MSSQL were designed by satan himself to to mess with sql devs

this seems to be a different thing

[pliant snow]

I've always just done con.execute("CREATE TABLE ...etc")

[safe dragon]

apparently that's just a shorter version where it creates a temporary cursor for you behind the scene

[pliant snow]

very kind of it

[safe dragon]

this is for T-SQL/MSSQL but I thought it was funny

seems like if you're doing mulitple executes in a row you should be getting the cursor yourself and use that cause else it will re-create one every single time

idk why this is called a cursor it doesn't seem to be what I'm used to with cursors aka pure evil

cursors in T-SQL are essentially pointers to rows in a table that you can shift to other rows(usually the next one)

the very ugly cousin of a foreach loop

[willow knot]

LMAO

yeah the python sql guide was lie "use cursor bc you end and then make new one later so uhhh"

and i was like "ok that makes sense to me"

[cinder karma]

My new tweezers: apparently can cause reproductive issues in the state of California

[willow knot]

oh yeah my melon soda does that too

a lot of things do that apparently

im not in cali tho so im fine /j

[pliant snow]

I don't think you're using them right

[willow knot]

does this make sense

wait oops i have to put logs as the thing

[pliant snow]

The thing inside of execute is a string, so it won't know what number is, it'll think you're searching for the literal word "number".

[willow knot]

so i put like readlog(2) and it selects the readlog with rowid 2

[pliant snow]

You'll want something like

res = cur.execute("SELECT * FROM logs WHERE rowid = ?", [number])

[willow knot]

OHHH right i cant put existing strings into these

[pliant snow]

I think you also need to call fetchall or fetchone on it as well

[willow knot]

yeah

but i wanted to doubel check first

oppugh fuck you if not exists command in python

wait i can make an exception!!!!!!!!!!!

NVM

im doing this later

but i got some of it goin i think

thanks again for all your help guys

[dapper sinew]

hehehehe, i got nano on windows

[pliant snow]

c-congrats

[dapper sinew]

i will turn windows into linux somehow

i need it

Windux

[pliant snow]

no one tell them about WSL

[dapper sinew]

i know about that

but it dont WANNA WORK AAAAAAA

[cinder karma]

I literally use git bash on windows

This is how you can tell I'm actually an Old

[pliant snow]

i use git bash

i think many people in corporate places still use it

[dapper sinew]

i use it sometimes

but im lazy so i just use whats in front of me

[modest jewel]

can someone take a look in my project:https://github.com/SparrowWithBrokenWing/StardewValleyMod, currently I meeting a weird bug: pets don't go to the target point and when manually move pet, pet "teleport" to target position. I attached a recored video, hope it will help.

It's few days now, I really want to know what's wrong with my code. The code is a mess because I don't have time to come out with a good design system so I hope you can get it.

[dapper sinew]

#making-mods-general is probably better for this

[modest jewel]

I think the problem is in the code, also, my mode is reprogramming(is this right word) crow of game do i think it's better to ask for help here

[sand frost]

No, this is for off-topic stuff

like "hey guys, what's the best IDE and why is it vim?"

[sonic mirage]

"also, does anyone happen to know how to exit it? it's been 12 years"

[cinder karma]

Gotta keep the shitposting quotient up

[strange copper]

my C++ professor was a diehard emacs user and I think about him every time someone talks about editors

i used VIM until I realized I could use VS Code's SSH extension for remote work and then I never touched VIM again

[sonic mirage]

In my Comp Sci 1 class I did almost the whole course writing C++ in vim by SSHing into the school's server because for some reason I thought that was the only way to write it. I was computer savvy at the time, so I guess I just never thought about it just being a flat file you could edit with any editor, such as one on my own computer.

[strange copper]

C++ feels it deserves cryptic treatment

like no syntax highlighting, "look at me i'm low level"

[strange copper]

your cs1 class was in C++?

[sonic mirage]

Yeah, we learned all the low level stuff by writing it ourselves. Linked lists and such.

[strange copper]

we did that too but it was definitely not in the intro sequence

[sonic mirage]

I haven't touched C++ since CS2

[strange copper]

real

[sonic mirage]

Prior to those two courses, I did Python in an Intro to Programming course I took as an elective for another major. Turns out it clicked with me, as I spent most of class helping other students with their code. Haven't touched Python since that class though either lol

I then switched to Comp Sci

[strange copper]

sounds like you would have enjoyed TAing

[cinder karma]

Do I appear to be an actual software dev? People keep asking me that.

[pliant snow]

you appear to be a cat with a power drill

[strange copper]

If you told me you held a generic software engineering position at a midsize tech or nontech company i'd believe it

[scarlet hollow]

Found my way to the merch store for Cypress, the testing library (don't ask) and omg they have the cutest nerdy kiddo clothes

[strange copper]

cypress is fun, what's the merch like

[strange copper]

wait they kinda cooked

[scarlet hollow]

They did!

Especially love the onesie (the first one)

[strange copper]

that baby onesie test never gonna pass tho 😭

kid not gonna sleep

[modest jewel]

Exception throw!

Crash!

[scarlet hollow]

[sand frost]

You almost certainly have enough skills to be one if you want tbh

[pliant snow]

everyone is a software dev if they believe ✨

[safe dragon]

I don't believe

[cinder karma]

Every time LabVIEW boots and paused on loading system.reflection I'm mildly amused

[willow knot]

i got that whole log thing to work!

heres the code rn. its ery bare bones

i have some kinks to work out but in the end i fugured it out!!!!

[pliant snow]

time for us to nitpick every little thing

[willow knot]

thanks again for all the help yesterday

LMAO

honestly ill take whatever crit i can get

im an art student im used to it, and i know itll help me learn

theres a LOOOOT i dont know

so if you have greivences, by all means, go ahead

my next task for this project which will probably be a little thing i come back to tinker with code wise every once and a while, is amking it so i dont have to re run the code everyt ime to rad a log or make a enw one

[pliant snow]

that should be a pretty easy change

[willow knot]

im thinking of implimenting a loop but id have to fiddle a bit since ya know

i dont know a lot

the last time i made a program repeat i shoved the whole code into a new def repeat command

and i KNOW theres easier ways to do it than that

just not quite sure what they are

or rather, how to approach them

[cinder karma]

Quick thing: I usually use ruff to format my python

[willow knot]

whats ruff

is that another ide

[cinder karma]

Autoformatter

[willow knot]

ohhh

[lethal walrus]

why are there double indents

[cinder karma]

Nah, just something I install into the ide to consistently format my code

[gilded hound]

What about bython

[willow knot]

whats a linter

like wht is linting in code

[pliant snow]

its a program that gives suggestions for cleaning up code

[willow knot]

ooh installable via pip

ooh neato

[pliant snow]

you'll need to either run it separately, but more popular is you set it up so your editor shows suggestions

[willow knot]

THERES A HITCHIKERS GUIDE TO PYTHON

I LOVE HITCHIKERS GUIDE TO THE GALAXY

[pliant snow]

here, i'll give you some feedback

[gilded hound]

Have you tried hitchhiker's guide to fractional sobolev spaces?

[willow knot]

i have not

[pliant snow]

what happens if you run your program and type in "Create new log"

[willow knot]

man i should read that book again

OOOH FUCK

I HAVE TO LOWERCASE EVERYTHING

[pliant snow]

you do

at least right now

[willow knot]

HOLD ON WHAT WAS THT THING AGAIN I HAVE IT

uh uhuh

casefold

[pliant snow]

what is casefold

[willow knot]

make all letters small

[safe dragon]

casefold is essentially a lower that lowers more characters

[willow knot]

but like it works diff for other languages

[pliant snow]

oh i just always used lower lol

[willow knot]

bc i think lower turns like hu

[pliant snow]

does it lower in place

[willow knot]

ß

it amkes that ss

[safe dragon]

I doubt it lowers in place

[willow knot]

but i think casefold doesnt? or the other wya around

what does lowering in place mean

[pliant snow]

it means it should be action = action.casefold()

[willow knot]

huh

[gilded hound]

Casefold just lowers more characters

[safe dragon]

basically. casefold() does not modify whatever it is run on. It has a return value you have to assign back to some variable

[willow knot]

ohh...

huh. didnt know that. it orked fine on another project like this

well the more i know

a very simple project i made like a week or so ago

this wsa my first ever thing i coded

[gilded hound]

That wouldn't be actually lowering the case.

[willow knot]

oh. guess i hust got lucky wiht people who tested it

[gilded hound]

Not too
mention you should use lower unless you really need casefold

[safe dragon]

original = "WitH caPitAL LeTters"
lowered = original.casefold()

print (original)
print (lowered)

as you can see the original is never changed in the casefold()

[pliant snow]

ah yes, spongebob case

[safe dragon]

yes

[willow knot]

ohh i see

will using action = action.casefold() casue any weird issues? like should i make it action2 = action.casefold() or smth

[pliant snow]

nah, its fine, so long as you never need the original action again

[willow knot]

no, theres no reason fo rit to exist capitalized

ok cool

[safe dragon]

also yeah. You're probably never going to notice the difference but casefold has some strange things it lowers like ß into ss

[willow knot]

yeah

would using casefold instead of lower be a bad habit to get into

[gilded hound]

Yes

[willow knot]

why /genuine

[gilded hound]

Casefold is worse for performance and you have no reason to use it

[willow knot]

why is it worse for performance (i beleive you im just trying to learn more and knowing why i should or shouldnt do things helps me a lot)

[gilded hound]

Well it handles more things, so it needs to do more.

The main reason why you shouldn't use it, is because of use case. If you don't need it why use it?

[willow knot]

fair enough

[safe dragon]

there's no real measurable performance difference between casefold and lower as far as I know

[willow knot]

i guess if the program is big enough and youre casefolding enough things, but ig thats the case for most anything

[gilded hound]

Not any significant one.

[willow knot]

thank you fo rthe input yall! even though its rough around the edges, i made a code that uses a database within my first week of coding, andim proud of that

its super simple yeah but im learning!! and doing things with my time!!!1

i even got an npc and maps to work in stardew coding (with plenty of help ofc) in that week!

[safe dragon]

tbh if the performance difference between casefold and lower ends up being a big enough concern in any project... you probably shouldn't have been using python in the first place

[gilded hound]

^^ it's not worth the effort of writing performant Python

[willow knot]

yall have all been so nice to me i wanna thank you again for putting up with my admittedly sometimes idiodic questions

[safe dragon]

the most popular way to write performant python is to not write python and instead create a library written in C/C++ etc and then importing that in python...

[gilded hound]

Yup, and you eventually just write the whole thing in c anyways

[willow knot]

im guessing performant python is like a code meant to perform certain tasks yeah

[safe dragon]

performant means fast and/or memory efficient in this case

[willow knot]

ohhh

as in able to perform many tasks quickly and well without takinig up memory ok ok ok

im gonna learn c eventually but

its

very daunting

[safe dragon]

python trades performance for convenience a lot which means it's poorly suited for anything where performance really matters

[willow knot]

im gonna spend time in python wrapping my head around a lot of the basics and getting used to the workflow

[gilded hound]

Python's a good place to start, don't worry about learning C for a while

[willow knot]

the stardewmodding stuff uses javascript right?

[gilded hound]

numba

[safe dragon]

C# or apparently json(idk I'm not a modder)

[willow knot]

oh

i mean the files are json

[lethal walrus]

this is correct

[willow knot]

so yeah

[gilded hound]

json covers mostly everything, csharp for what's left

[willow knot]

that mightbe where i take my journey next after i learn more in python since i have experience in that with my cruddy mod

[gilded hound]

although, I remember Trent was working on an F# mod, so that's another possibility

[willow knot]

i

didnt even know f# was a thing

[safe dragon]

it's the functional programming brother of C#

[willow knot]

ohhh

f for function

[safe dragon]

which I'm sure is followed by the question "what is a functional programming language"

[willow knot]

n

no

i have google

[safe dragon]

functional programming vs other approaches is a whole argument you could dedicate your entire computer engineering career on

[gilded hound]

I've been learning functional python, helps to write more performant python code, that I unfortunately have to write

[safe dragon]

interesting. functional programming isn't known for performance. More for correctness guarantees

[gilded hound]

Its to avoid using ugly nests of while loops, definitely not the best possible, but it's the next best thing

I'd rather just rewrite everything in C, but we struggle to write sensible code here so that won't work lol

[willow knot]

so what i can gather and feel free to correct me. functional is more focused on gathering precise and accurate results and data based on whatever it is youre doing rather than doing that thing super fast and such like performant is

so while performant would be used fo rthings liek games where being fast and smooth is important

functional might be used for things like science whre extreme accuracy is more important

but they can still be used for the other scenario

jsut more the way my brain is kinda processing the ideas

[safe dragon]

I've written and deleted an explanation like 10 times

[gilded hound]

Same, its a complicated topic

A quick response would be they're both performant. Its not functinoal vs performant, its functional vs OOP

In science, we do tend to use functional programming, because we usually have a set of data, and operations we perform on that data, and we want to do a lot of things concurrently.

[willow knot]

ok

so i guess... permormant is like functional but faster and a bit more loosey goosey?

[safe dragon]

the main performance caveat of "pure" functional programming is immutable datastructures. What that means is for example that if you had a list [1, 2, 3]. If you wanted to add a new number to this list, 4, you would modify the original list and turn it into [1, 2, 3, 4]. In pure functional programming you would instead opt to create a new separate list [1, 2, 3, 4] while leaving the original intact. (Languages that do this have clever tricks to not truly copy over the entire list but that's not something you see as a user of the language)

[gilded hound]

Performant is just a way to describe your code. Like it runs really well

[willow knot]

oh

ok

sorry for all the fuss, but i do know more now

[safe dragon]

functional programming likes this immutability because it makes it safer to reason about.

Like say you have a list again and you pass it to some function. In a mutable environment you do not know if the list will still look the same after the function is done without checking whether whatever you called changes it, which isn't always reasonable or possible. In an immutable environment however you don't have to worry about this because the list you sent would never change suddenly

there are functional programming languages that allow for mutation and there's a lot of imperative languages that have ways to try and have ways to make sure something cannot be modified or give easy insight into whether it will be

so it's not a clear cut thing

but that is one of the big things that is usually treated differently in functional vs imperative

the casefold()/lower() thing here is an example of what would be functional programming approved. It doesn't modify whatever you called it on, it just returns a new "version" of it without messing with the original

in a fancy term this benefit is called referential transparency

[gilded hound]

As a new programmer though, I wouldn't worry about this stuff. I've been coding for over a decade, and I'm sure Crumble has the same if not more.
Just practice coding, take some classes, and you'll eventually learn more.

[safe dragon]

I'm only at 9.5 years smh

well I guess 10...

fine, a decade

and yeah I wouldn't worry about it for now. You can form strong opinions about this later and argue with people online

and then all come together in that you all like rust

welcome to #lost-rustaceans

[willow knot]

Idk what rust is but I'm sure I'll get there eventually

Unless you mean the game rust in which yes

Seriouy though, everyone here has been so helpful and patient, it's made the learning process enjoyable

[safe dragon]

rust is a programming language, probably not a good one to try and get into rn

[cinder karma]

Aggravation is realizing you're somehow editing the wrong file

Pro tip: if none of your changes work, try an assert False

[safe dragon]

reminding me of a much worse version of this I had with some programming language where it was just refusing to recompile some specific changes

I went insane trying to figure out why my code wasn't working

ended up completely deleting the old build for a clean build and suddenly it worked

I forget which language it was

might've been rust actually

[dapper sinew]

mmmm art code

[safe dragon]

is that piet

it is

hello world in Piet

[dapper sinew]

[safe dragon]

love esoteric programming languages

[willow knot]

ooh

that looks cool

[dapper sinew]

im determined to learn the uwu one

but idk how to run it so no sense in learning it yet

[crystal wren]

You should make an esoteric language called esolang and cause everything to implode in on itself.

[safe dragon]

that's evil

[dapper sinew]

thats just my normal code, can i have points!

[safe dragon]

the uwu language...

dear god

UwU is this fibonacci?

a iws 1
b iws 1
c iws 0

OwO *notices 100 gweatew than a *
    c iws b 
    b iws b pwus a
    a iws c
    n iws n pwus 1
stawp

nuzzels a

[dapper sinew]

you cant tell

[willow knot]

That's horrid

[dapper sinew]

but im dying of laughter

[willow knot]

I love ot

[dapper sinew]

theres also PythOwO

[safe dragon]

the name reminds me of an actually legitimate language which in my mind is still esoteric

https://www.uiua.org/

[crystal wren]

https://esolangs.org/wiki/3.725254969642999e-321

Wow.

[dapper sinew]

i want MC commands as useable code

but sadly i havent found anyone thats done it yet

[safe dragon]

MC commands are already usable code

[dapper sinew]

i meant syntax and all

i cant slap execute @e{type=arrow} ~ ~ ~ run summon arrow ~ ~ ~ into a terminal

[safe dragon]

I do wonder what exactly that would do

you did remind me of sethbling's compiler for datapacks

https://github.com/SethBling/cbscript

basically created his own language that then compiles into valid minecraft datapacks

[dapper sinew]

i just wanna state how much i hate python and pip, they NEVER seem to work Path wise

grumpy noises

[safe dragon]

all my homies hate pip

I don't ever use python but I've had to install stuff with pip a few times and half the time it just breaks

[dapper sinew]

it really does

it have more fever dreams than AI does

i swear, it works only when it wants

im dying

hahaha

[lethal walrus]

Wasn't it originally command blocks too?

[pliant snow]

I never use pip on my host machine. I either use python-* packages or a container anymore

[winged grove]

if stardew valley was programmed in assembly how different and faster would the game be? Sorry i've always heard that assembly is crazy hard to program

[pliant snow]

The short answer is "it wouldnt be", as it's not really feasible to program stuff in assembly anymore. Since SDV needs to run on modern computers and consoles, you have to use the functionality that the console creators allow you to use, which doesn't really accommodate assembly (at least not very easily).

[cinder karma]

Uv looks super promising

But I don't really do personal python projects that often anymkre

I tend to use dotnet8 or rust these days

[safe dragon]

assembly also isn't a cheatcode to good performance. Assembly only gives you good performance if you actually know what you are doing which, chances are, you won't be

[winged grove]

you'd be able to run it on anything if it was programmed in assembly? I'm just wondering about the pros and cons, I remember rct being programmed with that back in the day

[pliant snow]

When you program something in assembly, you have to program it for a specific processor type, so it actually would run on even less things than it does now, for example he'd have to completely rewrite it from scratch for modern Macs

The pros are basically none these days

[sand frost]

There’s lots of rendering shit that would be super painful probably

[cinder karma]

Beating the compiler in assembly requires you to be smarter than a compiler dev

And compiler devs are scary smart

[winged grove]

Ah I see

[sand frost]

I don’t want to write an audio driver by hand, either

[pliant snow]

coward

[sand frost]

That’s me

Abject cowardice

[cinder karma]

Sometimes I have quibbles with how the compiler choses

[safe dragon]

compiler devs wouldn't even see me I am less than an ant to them

[winged grove]

It sounds like you have to be mad man to program any new games in assembly nowaday from what it seems

[cinder karma]

But I wouldn't be able to do better across any decent project

[sand frost]

I am but a simpleton who does not touch my wifi drivers or my audio drivers

[pliant snow]

There are games being made in assembly, but for systems that have the tools to support it, like old NES and Game Boy and such. You'll still find people making new games for them

I was just playing a new sega game today, although that one was made in C i think

[safe dragon]

weak

[winged grove]

but maybe in assembly you have more control over your code? I'm no programmer but I love to research this stuff from time to time

[pliant snow]

Control... I suppose. But it's not a level of control you need anymore and you'd prevent yourself from using any other tools that exist to make things easier

[safe dragon]

you'd just be making things more difficult for yourself with essentially no benefit

[pliant snow]

I know enough game boy assembly to get around, but even then if I were making a game boy game I would just use a C compiler

and you too can learn game boy assembly with my overly verbose guide coming soon™️

[devout vault]

I had a lot of fun using mips back during computer organization class

Was gonna make a small game with it but couldn't find an emulator that had all the features I wanted

[winged grove]

What about game boy color assembly? Somebody should make The Legend Of Zelda Oracle of Secrets! How possible would that be if you knew the know how in assembly, how different is og boy vs color? @pliant snow

[pliant snow]

Somebody should make The Legend Of Zelda Oracle of Secrets!
I think they already did lol

OG game boy vs Color is extremely similar. It's the same CPU and functionality, the only difference is how the graphics are laid out

[winged grove]

my heads going to explode they made one dang

I gotta checkl that out

[pliant snow]

oh secrets, I read seasons

theres no difference between game boy and game boy color assembly tho

[winged grove]

Those games, seasons and ages had a third version called Oracles Of Secrets, they scrapped it for the gbc. It would've been neat the play that third version

[pliant snow]

if you wanted to make that, you probably would start with just hacking the released titles rather than creating a whole engine from scratch

[winged grove]

You'd have to change game mechanics. this is what someone says from a reddit post "According to what I've read the original idea was actually for the third game to be about colors. Nayru was originally going to be a painter and you were going to use a magic paintbrush to solve color puzzles.

Meanwhile Farore was going to have the time travel mechanic, except it was only going to change the time of day, not send you back and forth 400 years.

Eventually the third game was scrapped and the time travel mechanic was moved over to Nayru's game as that one was reshaped into the Oracle of Ages, but the color mechanic still survives to a degree, that's why there's so many puzzles based around colors in that game."

[pliant snow]

speaking of game boys and rust tho if anyone wants to proof read a series of articles about a Rust game boy project 👀

[safe dragon]

I've read at least a paragraph of it once

[winged grove]

Hopefully somebody someday makes this https://www.zeldadungeon.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/secrets2.png

[cinder karma]

Insert meme of celebrating because the error message changed

[pliant snow]

there is now many more paragraphs

if youre really lost-crustaceans, what greater joy could there be

[safe dragon]

actually using rust

[pliant snow]

gross

[safe dragon]

you're right. Rust is bout praising it online, not using it

[ivory shadow]

My brain as I watch the VSCode talk in #making-mods-general

[cinder karma]

I don't know, it has a debugger

[ivory shadow]

True. I argued that myself... even though it's an awful debugger

[safe dragon]

it does have a debugger

I've never gotten it to work

but it's there

[gilded hound]

I've gotten it to work, but its awful and I don't recommend it. I still remember watching my ram usage climb to 64 then my computer crashing.

[cinder karma]

/me changes position of two lines of code that should have nothing to do with each other

code works now

(Timing issue I think)

[gilded hound]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/852794381210746923/1229327545837817927/PXL_20240415_070819766.jpg?ex=662958be&is=6628073e&hm=d63182a4aaaa8db28eb792cd95fbd88c8fd50f2ffab761db0fd8b8da2709ffdb&=&format=webp&width=850&height=637

I even found my screenshot of the aftermath

This one is probably just windows not being great at handling out of memory though

[cinder karma]

Is anyone good at handling out of memory?

My computer keeps on crashing because opengl can't allocate more memory

[thin estuary]

My VS memory leaks when I try to profile anything

[tranquil grove]

when I tested some LLM junk, python was pretty good at telling me "your graphics card doesn't have a terabyte of memory, reboot with lower settings"

operating systems themselves, generally pretty upset about it

[cinder karma]

Arr you sure you don't have a tb of vram

[tranquil grove]

windows says I don't, and I trust it completely

(that said, it's also bad about freeing up memory after python scripts sometimes)

[sand frost]

Brand new sentence “I trust windows completely”

I swear Matlab has haunted shit in it regarding memory usage

Specifically with recording videos

[gilded hound]

Autodesk did to me for sure, had to factory reset to purge it completely

[sand frost]

Yipes

[gilded hound]

O matlab. I had to use it for a class once, worst experience of my life. Just ened up writing code without ever running it

They don't implement thread affinity properly

[supple ether]

wish there was a less stupid way to specify that a method should only return the implementing type on an abstract class
maybe I could do something with interfaces but god there's already so many generics

c# I love you but sometimes you have some Serious Holes

[thin estuary]

Sooo the curiously recurring generic pattern?

interface ISomething<T> where T : ISomething<T>

[safe dragon]

I've recently found that you can completely balloon your memory usage and clog up the signalr message bus in Blazor Server simply by holding a key down while whatever you focus on has an @onkeydown

I just watched my memory usage go up to 900MB

just by holding down a button

https://github.com/dotnet/aspnetcore/issues/10522

luckily the feature to control this has been moved further and further back...

first was planned for .net 8, then .net 9 and now it has already been moved to .net 10

had to rewrite something for work to avoid this dang issue

[crystal wren]

How can they consider this a low priority issue?

[safe dragon]

they work in mysterious ways

[crystal wren]

Makes me glad I'm not interested in Blazor!

[safe dragon]

it's a very versatile web framework but yeah stuff like this is just baffling sometimes

[crystal wren]

Gotta beat me screwing around 10+ years ago making super trivial pages using C++ because I can.

[pliant snow]

https://xkcd.com/1172/

xkcd: Workflow

There are probably children out there holding down spacebar to stay warm in the winter! YOUR UPDATE MURDERS CHILDREN.

maybe its an easter egg

[crystal wren]

I love how actually possible that first comment is.

[safe dragon]

mainly cause they're an emacs user

[cinder karma]

This one enjoyed shouting at everyone passing by haha

[sonic mirage]

We have a goose couple that comes back to our office building every year to nest. Except its up against the building along the driveway to get to the back of the building, where we all park. So the male is constantly attacking our cars as we drive by. Luckily we can go into the neighboring building's driveway and get to our back lot from theirs, but their driveway and lot are a bunch of crazy angles and hills, so it's not great. Anyways, geese can suck a lot of the time.

[fierce meteor]

okay guys so i need help with transpiling

I get the concept

but is there an easy way to get the equivalent CIL code i need to generate by editing the decompiled game functions?

I use Rider on MacOS

[cinder karma]

I assume every goose yelling at me is yelling about ui/ux sins

The more geese you have angry at you, the more sins

[lethal walrus]

it feels so good to see strings you recognise in an assembly/c decompile

[safe dragon]

mov

[lethal walrus]

ooooh
debug features are in the switch build

heh

the smapi diagnostic check is in it too, doesn't make sense to remove it tbf

.. what?LooseSprites\\TutorialImages\\FarmTut

[lethal walrus]

huh, /printdiag doesn't exist, most odd

:o it has the macro running text

[devout vault]

I too did this, though it was when I didn't understand C++ very well so I didn't get much done 😅

[lethal walrus]

:o i found the chatbox

oo savegame class

there's no save fixes it appears
nvm it has the lastappliedsavefix field

[fierce meteor]

Can transpiled harmony patches access mod namespaces?

Just for accessing static / const objects / functions / primitives

[thin estuary]

you can access anything with reflection

[safe dragon]

even private methods

you can break just about anything with reflection

I have no idea what a harmony patch is but I assume a modding thing

[thin estuary]

yeah

[fierce meteor]

Yeah it's a code injection library that comes bundled with smapi

You can patch existing game functions to implement modded features

Prefix and postfix are simple enough

Transpilation is somewhat more advanced

[pliant snow]

Wtf is reflection

[crystal wren]

It's "let me see your private things, please".

I believe it comes from this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflective_programming

[cinder karma]

awwwww this lost the fun name: https://soasis.org/posts/a-mirror-for-rust-a-plan-for-generic-compile-time-introspection-in-rust/

it used to be called introwospection

[crystal wren]

Unusable. Rust is dead now.

[cinder karma]

Friendship with Rust over. Becoming even more insufferable - learning OCAML

[crystal wren]

Aww, man... I mean the renewal process is easy, but...

[safe dragon]

reflection is what I do when the type system fails me or would make things more complicated than it's worth...

[safe dragon]

the next step

I still don't know why people are suddenly getting into ocaml lately

[fierce meteor]

Ocaml is trash

Learn haskell instead

[safe dragon]

I don't want to

reading haskell enthusiast forum posts feels like I entered some conference for theoretical mathematicians

I've done an entire year of advent of code in haskell and written a simple compiler in it for school but still I feel like people who really love haskell are living in a different universe

[uncut seal]

try uiua, I'm currently taking part in a small code golf competition and uiua is the meta, is pretty fun to learn imo

[pliant snow]

please, you think crumble hasnt tried uiua

[safe dragon]

I've done 2 days of advent of code in uiua...

😌

uiua is a little much for me

especially uiua that isn't extremely inefficient

I think I just did the one where you had to find 2/3 numbers in a lost that add together to 2020

normally a fairly trivial problem and in theory trivial in uiua but my solution was slow as hell, it took like half a second while my rust solution took like half a millisecond or something

the uiua solution had like a ton of Cartesian products in it

found it

[pliant snow]

how do they expect you to type that

[safe dragon]

you write the actual function name and the formatter replaces it

[pliant snow]

oh so theres an intermediary step

a compiled and interpreted language, excellent

[safe dragon]

for uiua, yes. Most other array programming languages have specialized keybinds per character

APL even has dedicated keyboards

[cinder karma]

Habha

[safe dragon]

I refuse to believe array programming languages are used in production anywhere

[safe dragon]

oh right I also had the short version for this:
⊃(÷6/+♭×⊃(=2020⊞+⊞+..)(⊞×⊞×..))(÷2/+♭×⊃(=2020⊞+.)(⊞×.))⊜parse≠@\n.&fras"input.txt"

I'm sure it could be much shorter

[uncut seal]

My uiua code to give the first 100 prime numbers : ∵((&p|)>1⧻°/*.)+2⇡540

[uncut seal]

yes, this doesn't look optimized

[safe dragon]

definitely not optimized in any sense of the word but I can't even read my own code here

I think the rice paddies 田 things are the Cartesian products

I forget

[uncut seal]

one of the participants in the code golf competition is so good at it, he got a solution shorter than mine in half the time it took me to get mine for every exercise

[uncut seal]

its "apply a function to every combination of elements of 2 arrays"

[safe dragon]

I've never done code golf though I understand the appeal

[uncut seal]

so yes

[safe dragon]

I'm honestly more prone to overly verbose code for the sake clarity

split calculations into pieces just so that I can give proper names to intermediate sections of the calculation...

[uncut seal]

of course, me too when I'm coding for stuff that isn't code golf

[safe dragon]

would be very counterproductive in code golf to be verbose...

[uncut seal]

either way I like uiua because it's the first time I code in a stack based array language and it's pretty funny to work around no variables

[safe dragon]

it's write only code but at least it's fun

[pliant snow]

all my code is write only

[safe dragon]

how do you get approval on your PRs

[cinder karma]

Chocolate

[pliant snow]

that would require reading their feedback, so i just keep clicking the submit button until something happens

[dusky oriole]

Hii, can someone help me install a mod to stardew valley? Like I read a bit about it and saw I need to install Smapi and Content Patcher, are these two reliable and without viruses?

[pliant snow]

They are, they are widely tested and used for mods

However, you'll probably have better luck for advice in #archived-modded-support

[dusky oriole]

Oh thank you!

[pliant snow]

i think thats the right one

[fierce meteor]

hey guys anyone familiar with CIL / transpiling?

do branches with two operands pop them from the stack?

[high willow]

I wonder if anyone will be able to get with Moolah's Money Mod ngl

[fierce meteor]

I need some help with my transpilation code

[safe dragon]

I'd love to help you but I barely know what transpilation is

I mean I've technically written one before but even then

I feel like if anyone did want to help they'd need to know from what language you're transpiling and into what other language

[lethal walrus]

given the discord I'd have to assume c#, though given the channel could not be

[safe dragon]

though the question remains what the target language is then

I did once write a very basic and not even close to feature complete transpiler from C# to some funky little finite state machine

idk at what point it stops being transpilation and becomes compilation

I guess that's more a compiler since a finite state machine is a much lower level abstraction

[high willow]

hmmm

[fierce meteor]

C#

stardew related

actually it's more of a CIL question

do branch statements pop their operands from the stack?

[crystal wren]

I'll be keeping an eye open for this help actually happening, because I need to steal the wisdom.

[thin estuary]

I find the question weird, since operands normally are unrelated to the stack, other than for the instructions which literally put them on the stack

Like ldc.i4

[pliant snow]

I know next to nothing about CIL, although its stack based isnt it? So one would assume yes

[fierce meteor]

could someone take a look at my transpiler code and tell me why I'm getting a mono.cil opcode exception?
https://github.com/arannya/BoomerangMod/blob/main/Patches.cs

[fierce meteor]

i shouldn't have said operand, i meant branches such as bne that operate on the top two elements of the stack

I have a suspicion that my use of bne is wrong... CIL probably can't compare two strings that way

do i have to call a function? e.g. string.equals for this?

[thin estuary]

pretty much any instruction that reads from the stack, does so by poping

[fierce meteor]

in other words, let's say i loaded two ints on the stack, then i beq'ed somewhere else, i don't have to worry about popping them?

[fierce meteor]

is calling string.equals the simplest way to compare strings in CIL? or can strings be compared directly?

[thin estuary]

the simplest way is to call your own static method which does whatever you need

instead of trying to figure that out on the CIL level

[marble jewel]

The more complicated you make the CIL, the more likely you are to break things

[fierce meteor]

am I using Label properly in my code?

[marble jewel]

KISS applies to transpilers (Keep it simple S****d)

[pliant snow]

You can say stupid on the internet

[marble jewel]

i.e. don't unnecessarily overcomplicate things. You'll regret it later.

[safe dragon]

my philosophy is the opposite

build anything as if it needs to handle a billion people using it even if the only person to ever see it is me

[thin estuary]

you seem to be using Label correctly. except don't use Bne_Un_S, just Bne_Un

[pliant snow]

Begin with the contribution guidelines

[thin estuary]

(i didn't check if this IL makes sense though)

[safe dragon]

get the readme and contribution guidelines set up and then cargo new

[thin estuary]

but that IS how you use Labels in transpilers, yes

[marble jewel]

There is such a thing as "over-engineering" and/or "over-optimizing" before you have working code

[safe dragon]

I'm the master of both

[thin estuary]

yield return new CodeInstruction(OpCodes.Ldarg_S, "weaponItemId");
this definitely is wrong though

[marble jewel]

SpaceCore has a nitfy "identify locals by name" thingy

Otherwise, this expects a short value

[thin estuary]

that's an arg though

[marble jewel]

Yeah, either case this needs the index of the argument, not the argument name

[thin estuary]

and please don't use the _S variants, you're making it harder for yourself

[cinder karma]

You can use the _S variants fine tbh

As long as you use a byte

Especially for arguments

Anyways

== has a name

Is op_Equality

[safe dragon]

y'all doin some arcane stuff

[crystal wren]

I'm trying to puzzle out what the _S variant would be without Googling going just by the context of Atra saying "as long as you used a byte"...

[marble jewel]

_S = short

[crystal wren]

Oh, well that's fairly obvious in hindsight.

[safe dragon]

that's what I assumed

[marble jewel]

The _S variant just means you do (short)5 instead of 5 that's the extra work

[safe dragon]

not that I have any idea what on earth ldarg is

[marble jewel]

Or 5s perhaps?

[fierce meteor]

Damn i thought ldarg with vaeiab(e name works cauae i saq it in dot peek

[safe dragon]

educated guess would be that ldarg is should for load argument or something

[ivory shadow]

Yes, it is exactly load argument.

[safe dragon]

what that actually means though I don't know

[marble jewel]

Ldarg are for arguments, Ldloc are for locals

Both refer to the arguments or locals by their index (not name)

[fierce meteor]

Push that argument to stack

[thin estuary]

(this whole talk should really be in #making-mods-general and not crossposted here)

[ivory shadow]

Also you need to be careful with ldarg because static functions start their arguments at zero, while instance functions start their arguments at 1 and the instance itself is zero.

[safe dragon]

I've never even looked at IL the dotnet IL this might as well be machine code to me

[marble jewel]

We aren't necessarily getting into SDV specifics yet

Harmony is a whole programming topic on its own

In fact, you may get more help on Harmony's official Discord

[ivory shadow]

Talking about IL isn't even necessarily harmony specific. You can write methods using IL.

[marble jewel]

True, although I wouldn't know where to begin doing that

[ivory shadow]

Stuff like ```csharp
internal static Func<T> CreateGetter<T>(this FieldInfo field) {
if (field is null)
throw new ArgumentNullException(nameof(field));
if (typeof(T) != field.FieldType)
throw new InvalidCastException($"{typeof(T)} is not same as field type {field.FieldType}");
if (!field.IsStatic)
throw new ArgumentException("field is not static");

if (!FieldGetters.TryGetValue(field, out var getter)) {
    DynamicMethod dm = new(MakeAccessorName("Get", field), typeof(T), null, true);

    var generator = dm.GetILGenerator();
    generator.Emit(OpCodes.Ldsfld, field);
    generator.Emit(OpCodes.Ret);

    getter = dm.CreateDelegate(typeof(Func<T>));
    FieldGetters[field] = getter;
}

return (Func<T>) getter;

}

[marble jewel]

Harmony is still magic to me

[safe dragon]

when would you ever write something in IL instead of just writing it in C# or something and then compiling it to IL

[marble jewel]

I've delved into doing non-Harmony IL stuff once, it was scary

I did a thing where I created generic delegates and had to generate IL

[ivory shadow]

Writing something in IL lets you do two things:

1. generate a function at runtime that's highly specialized for a specific thing that isn't obvious at compile time (probably, but rare)
2. generate a function to ignore access stuff without being slow as fuck like normal reflection

[safe dragon]

I mean I've never had a use for doing anything with the IL other than look at what it generated in very rare cases but I guess this is a thing that's done in modding

[devout vault]

Slightly on topic but SDV writes raw IL to generate the splitscreen state swap code

[ivory shadow]

Granted in .NET 8 you can set up to ignore access restrictions, but if you're stuck on, say, .NET 6 for some reason...

[devout vault]

(I wrote that fun bit of code...)

[thin estuary]

creating duck-typing proxies like my lib Pintail does; making a weird hook thing that lets you pass in any Delegate, skipping any arguments you don't care about, and making it work with some full method definition somewhere

[marble jewel]

This monstrosity from my "who knows if it'll ever be released" mod https://github.com/LeFauxMatt/StardewMods/blob/c882996551dfe0cdcc4f2ab09c239dbf4a38b862/SpritePatcher/Framework/Services/NetEvents/CachedEventInfo.cs#L151

[thin estuary]

that one was "fun" to implement

[marble jewel]

My IL generator use case was dynamically subscribing to net events as part of a content pack format

[safe dragon]

I'm learning more and more that modding involves doing some arcane stuff that you would definitely never ever use or even get away with using in most traditional software projects

[thin estuary]

that's correct

[crystal wren]

Unless you own that project!

[safe dragon]

you can get away with anything if you own it

[fierce meteor]

Unless youare reverse engineering rival products

[ivory shadow]

Video games are all about slapping code together

[marble jewel]

@thin estuary @devout vault by the way, since I see both of you here and you helped me. I was able to use Pidgin to make my search parser thing https://github.com/LeFauxMatt/StardewMods/blob/develop/BetterChests/Framework/Services/SearchHandler.cs

[safe dragon]

reverse engineering rival products sounds like it'd be interesting and maybe illegal I'm not entirely sure

[thin estuary]

nicee

[marble jewel]

One limitation of this is that it doesn't currently handle multiple binary expressions chained together

[devout vault]

Pidgin?

[marble jewel]

I kept on getting stack overflows when I tried supporting AND and OR recursively

[devout vault]

Looks spooky

[safe dragon]

ah now parser combinators are something I know

[marble jewel]

It still needs work, but it works well enough for now

[fierce meteor]

One big company i worked at defo do it

[marble jewel]

I can do things like "(this or !that) and other"

[crystal wren]

I only know Pidgin as an IM client from the olden days...

[ivory shadow]

That's what I was thinking, DH

[fierce meteor]

Thought the same

[devout vault]

Ah, that is spooky. I haven't done that since college

[safe dragon]

I like parser combinators they're fun

[marble jewel]

Anyway, the consensus is that the feature, although technically sound is not very-well liked in the hands of average mod users

But like, I make most of my mods for myself, and share the results with others

[devout vault]

That's how it starts...

frameworks lurking ominously in the background

[marble jewel]

It's funny too because the default config options I ship with are the ones I want to play with

[crystal wren]

I still like that my biggest mod came from me watching the Haunted Chocolatier trailer, and thinking "hey, that would be cool to be able to do in Stardew!"

[marble jewel]

So when people ask me to change it, it's like... I'm already being nicer than I have to by offering options.

[ivory shadow]

My biggest mod came from "if I need to scroll through this entire twenty pages of recipes one more time I am going to strangle someone"

[safe dragon]

it'd be cool to watch the hc trailer in stardew?

[marble jewel]

Meta

[safe dragon]

someday I will install smapi and try a mod

[crystal wren]

...Haunted Chocolatier trailer cinema movie movie mod for Stardew?

[devout vault]

It'd make more sense to have trailers preview before movies

[marble jewel]

Do you... play Stardew Valley?

[devout vault]

Wait, that's on topic, sorry

[safe dragon]

uh I've technically played sdv since the very first hour the game got released but I've never reached year 2

[marble jewel]

Because, if you ever get into mod making, those days are over /s

Spring Day 3, for all eternity

[safe dragon]

no worries there I never play the game to begin with

I joined this server in the hype of the game releasing "soon" but then never really got that into it when it did finally release

but made friends and stuck around anyway

[marble jewel]

Modding is notoriously debugging the same day to test one thing

[safe dragon]

that's honestly just software development

[marble jewel]

Facts. Although Software Development it's easier to make proper unit tests.