programmers-off-topic

[safe dragon]

how I wish that was easy

if only natural languages were as easy as programming languages

[karmic frost]

it's honestly not too bad if you look at what certain symbols are draw to look like (cause they look like what they mean, typically)... imo it's easier than learning to read western languages

[sand frost]

Imo Spanish is much easier than mandarin

But I can believe that mandarin is easier than English

English is kinda fucky

[cinder karma]

Mandarin reading is not bad

Mandarin writing can go take a hike

[tribal tinsel]

istg

[safe dragon]

I was referring to natural languages as a whole with "how I wish it was that easy" but yeah

I know like 1500 ish kanji due to Japanese which definitely took a whole lot more time than any programming language ever would

[marble jewel]

I just want a neuralink to upload languages into my brain

[safe dragon]

can't say many of them closely resemble whatever concept they're supposed to represent beyond the absolute basic. Some still technically represent their meaning but it'd require significant historical knowledge to know why that context is

and in many cases the characters have been simplified over the years into something easier to write or remember but losing whatever it represented in the process

Chinese and Japanese separately went through events that caused a simplification of their characters which means neither represent what they originally were intended to be nor did they simplify it the same way...

[worn remnant]

kanji roughly analogous to english spelling, imo. You Just Have To Memorize Thousands Of (Words/Characters)

[safe dragon]

kanji generally have many ways to read them or sometimes even ignore all of their readings, generally for common words, so it's not ideal.

Or names might use a reading that has become archaic outside of that name

it's enjoyable though that why I learn it

[safe dragon]

like 天 is often read as ama in names while that reading is pretty much never used apart from that

[cinder karma]

Ah the predicted linguistics detour

[safe dragon]

😌

I am passionate about both types of languages

[crystal wren]

I would say if you don't experience that on several year old code, you're not improving enough!

[crystal wren]

It finally happened like I knew it would!

I'm amazed it took this long.

[marble jewel]

Is there such a thing as localized programming languages?

[safe dragon]

I've heard of them in the past but don't have any names I can think of

tbh maybe scratch supports multiple languages

does that count

[marble jewel]

I mean I guess programming languages aren't technically in English, but the syntax are usually English adjacent. Just interesting how no one has ever made a language that is non-English native. Or maybe none ever became popular enough to be noticed.

[safe dragon]

nah they have

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-English-based_programming_languages

[sand frost]

I vaguely recall something about Soviet era base 3 languages

[sand frost]

Shitty life hack: only learn traditional, understand the meanings but struggle to read simplified

[safe dragon]

just only ever go on business trips

maybe someday I'll try to learn some form of Chinese

for now I'll accept just being able to recognize random bits here and there from Japanese and nothing else

[cinder karma]

Yes. Excel

It's a, pardon my French, a ducking bad idea

[safe dragon]

excel

[modest jewel]

Excel....programming?? Isn't that for spreadsheets

[safe dragon]

we do exports and imports from excel a lot and it's the bane of our existence as it decides to interpret shit randomly as something else

and our problem forever where numbers in Dutch use the , as the decimal separator while English uses .

so if one user decides to open their excel spreadsheet with their language set to English

everything explodes

[cinder karma]

Yeah Dutch is wrong here

We have also agreed to hate the germans

[safe dragon]

I can't argue I often forget to use commas in Dutch cause of all the programming and English

a lot of Dutch websites just automatically replace periods with commas when you type in currency fields

[cinder karma]

Anyways

[lethal walrus]

is this meaning VBA or the weird formula stuff

[safe dragon]

we prioritize the Belgians

[safe dragon]

excel even has python now

[cinder karma]

Yeah!

[safe dragon]

also a pain...

[cinder karma]

Beats VBA so much

[safe dragon]

I never use excel for anything other checking if an export was successful so I've never really touched much of it

[lethal walrus]

I have unfortunately, voluntarily wrote VBA in the past lol

[safe dragon]

never written VBA but I've written VB.NET within the last week

I don't recommend it

[lethal walrus]

though admittedly I generated most of the VBA using python

[cinder karma]

So have I

But I'm also old so

[safe dragon]

my mom worked as a math professor at an accountancy college for 35 years so she has strong opinions about excel

still laments the day they switched from lotus to excel

just like she laments the switch from wordperfect to word

[pliant snow]

my dad runs a mac os 8 emulator just to keep using wordperfect

[safe dragon]

a lot of my mom's colleagues at the time also still tried to use wordperfect

[cinder karma]

Speaking of being wildly off topic, https://matrix67.itch.io/pi-day-challenge

What's wordperfect?

[pliant snow]

the hottest word processor of 1995

[cinder karma]

I'm still a vim enthusiast

[safe dragon]

it was incredibly popular back in the 80s and 90s

vim is not a word processor but yes it's nice

[cinder karma]

Ah I cheat sometimes and use LaTex with a package to use times new roman

[safe dragon]

all this effort for times new roman

[sand frost]

Sometimes I just use latex and let people deal

My English prof did not appreciate

[safe dragon]

I didn't touch latex till several years into uni

[sand frost]

I used to delete word off my computer after installing office

[cinder karma]

Hahaaaaaaaa

[safe dragon]

I have libreoffice on my work laptop cause I've never been bothered enough to ask for an office subscription

[cinder karma]

God if I could ahhhahhaa

I had a prof insist on pdfs from Word but heyyyy my LaTeX passed scrutiny

[safe dragon]

I don't really use word documents like ever

if you want it to be a pdf anyway why enforce word

I like latex till I need to place images

I'm sure there's a trick to it

but I'll make some edits and find out an image decided to go on an adventure to 3 pages later

so I try to patch it up with the latex equivalent of !important

it's been a few years since I last used latex I can't remember

[worn remnant]

TeX (and by extension, LaTeX) is cursed. brilliant, unknowable, untameable

[cinder karma]

badness 10000. You should feel bad.

[safe dragon]

latex documents both look nice and remind me of a lot of my old textbooks and instill a deep anxiety

[cinder karma]

I'm stupid good at Latex

[safe dragon]

can you place an image and actually have it stay there after edits

[worn remnant]

enjoy diving into TeX's inner tendrils to find out!

[safe dragon]

I'm glad I never ever write documents anymore

[worn remnant]

(i complain about TeX a lot because trying to do anything even remotely complex effectively requires you to have deep knowledge of its inner workings)

[cinder karma]

Yes

[worn remnant]

including insane parts like what kind of character each character is at the different stages of input evaluation

(and, in fairness, that's the kind of thing i would expect when a genius writes a typesetting system for his own use! of course the user will know the eldritch stuff inside!)

[cinder karma]

It could be worze

As for my images, yes. They usually end up near where j want them

Right now I'm in a war with table footnkres

[sand frost]

But consider: word does this but way worse

Images end up on the page you want in latex unless it would force too much white space

I have settled on htbp or something

[pliant snow]

what is htbp

[cinder karma]

Here top bottom ...p

So, basically

Latex, try putting the picture here. Then at the top. Then at the bottom. Then in the appendix but if only that doesn't work

I use h! Unless that doesn't work

[lethal walrus]

ah yes, debugging

[marble jewel]

Careful Pillow (Switch Modder), Nintendo is out for blood lately
Yuzu

[lethal walrus]

sdv doesn't even work in yuzu annoyingly

[cyan shadow]

yuzu's core problem from a legal standpoint was the existence of a patreon

[crystal wren]

I don't get why they'd be so dumb as to not expect that to come and bite them...

[cyan shadow]

it went from being a work protected, more or less, by the fair use doctrine, to a monetised infringement of nintendo's IP.

[marble jewel]

I modded my switch mostly to install ToTK mods, but also to cheat at Super Mario RPG because there was no way I was ever going to get 100 jumps

[lethal walrus]

huh??
why does it work now

[crystal wren]

No Nintendo IP there though, arguably!

[lethal walrus]

it used to be double mirrored

[cyan shadow]

recreation of switch software and hardware counts

it's... dodgy, admittedly, but courts are weird sometimes

[marble jewel]

Emulation has already been determined to be legal, but bypassing encryption and things like that can be a violation

There's a spiritual successor to Yuzu in the works that removes some of the Nintendo IP stuff and leaves it to the user to find out how to get those things

[cyan shadow]

mhmm! that's how cemu escaped all this nonsense

you need to dump a considerable amount of crap from your wiiu to get it to work

[marble jewel]

Suyu I think is the new one

[cyan shadow]

that name made me chortle

[lethal walrus]

what does yuzu have that you don't have to dump?

[cyan shadow]

it's practically an invitation

[marble jewel]

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2024/03/heres-how-the-makers-of-the-suyu-switch-emulator-plan-to-avoid-getting-sued/

[cyan shadow]

nintendo successfully convinced the court that its generation of switch keys didn't require dumping from a console

[crystal wren]

Remember when it was declared legal (in America at least) to bypass encryption and nonsense like that?

[marble jewel]

Behind the scenes, Sharpie says that the Suyu developers are hard at work "removing all references to Yuzu or Tropic Haze [the LLC set up to run the Yuzu Patreon] from the source code" for Suyu. On a more technical level, Sharpie also said the team is changing certain DRM-circumvention code to help avoid legal liability.

"One of the major parts of Nintendo's lawsuit was the generation of title.keys by yuzu," Sharpie said, referring to the game-specific encryption keys used by the emulator at runtime. "That is one of the first things we are removing/reworking. Suyu will require the user to provide their own title.keys, prod.keys, and firmware from their Switch console."

The Suyu GitLab notes that "in order to use Suyu, you'll need keys from your real Switch system and games which you have legally obtained and paid for." But Sharpie admitted to Ars that while the emulator won't boot without firmware, "there isn't really a way to verify the keys were dumped legitimately from the user's Switch."

[thin estuary]

Isn’t it made by someone who has no clue how anything works and they’re actually looking for proper devs?

[lethal walrus]

no that was nuzu or smth iirc

[marble jewel]

title.keys and prod.keys

I think I already have mine backed up from my actual Switch hardware due to modding, so I should be able to use this fork

[cyan shadow]

that has conflicting jurisprudence, I'm literally currently writing a chapter on how bypassing anti-cheat amounts to a copyright violation under US law

in the EU, it's... unfortunately going the same way, from what I've seen of a couple DPA rulings I managed to find

[lethal walrus]

I should try it too

[marble jewel]

It was kind of neat making my Asus Rog Ally into a DIY Switch Pro

Especially with Handheld Companion making things like Gyroscope functional

[lethal walrus]

put a "nintendo" "switch" sticker on the back too

[marble jewel]

Ooh, I wonder if they have skins for it

[lethal walrus]

I should really improve iridium

though 1.6 would break it even if I finished it, since xnbcli/xnbjs probably would take a while to update

[crystal wren]

I mean the EU's going the direction of trying to restrict bloody encryption in varying degrees...

[marble jewel]

Encryption is fine.... as long as there's a backdoor... which will totally never get exploited by hackers!

[crystal wren]

Sometimes I just want to make a new Deus Ex-like, because the conspiracies in that are turning out to be damned tame in comparison to the world now.

[marble jewel]

Deux Ex: Reality. It's just a simulation of the world right now.

[cyan shadow]

that's out of scope for my thesis so I haven't looked into it much, but one thing I would like to see is the recognition of the fact that bloody kernel mode /= a reasonable measure to protect business interests

[crystal wren]

Thinking of Sony's music disc rootkit, are we?

[cyan shadow]

I did mention that somewhere, but I used modern kernel mode anti cheat wayyy more

GameGuard, EAC, ESEA and Vanguard got raked over the coals in my legal analysis

ESEA in particular due to that bloody bitcoin mining incident

[crystal wren]

Also consider: https://www.ilok.com/

I mean a little late now, but might be of interest!

[cyan shadow]

lemme just...

the fuck is this abomination????

hm

[crystal wren]

Because you could make the argument that kernel-mode crap for license management is more dangerous because it runs mainly on business systems.

[cyan shadow]

It's out of scope tbh, but I'll file this away on zotero for future papers!

Ooo!

[safe dragon]

reminding me of programs a lot of schools here wanted to mandate students to install that were essentially incredibly invasive spyware with huge security and privacy concerns

though I think they eventually ruled that those programs breached privacy laws

those tools were to prevent cheating while having to do tests remote due to covid

[marble jewel]

Time to work exclusively in a virtual environment, and scrap it every day

[crystal wren]

I've had to use a few Citrix... essentially dumb terminals in my time. Surprised more places don't use it now!

[marble jewel]

At home, I actually do have AtlasOS Win11 setup on Proxmox for SDV modding and hosting a game server. It's also something I can remote into from my iPad which is nice, but I haven't quite gotten as far as using it in my day to day.

[crystal wren]

...first time hearing about this. I am much intrigued...

[marble jewel]

I have... plans to combine the hardware from two servers I'm running into a single, proper rack

Right now I have one server running proxmox and a few OS, the other is running Unraid as my NAS

The new build will probably be everything on Proxmox, including the NAS

[crystal wren]

It's kinda stunning how cheap you can find some older rack servers though, huh?

[safe dragon]

I remote into my home server on my iPad so that I can still program while visiting family lmao

[marble jewel]

I haven't even done much research on my options, I've gotten as far as adding some things to pcpartspicker, but they don't list the cases I'm looking at

[marble jewel]

This is exactly where it started for me

[safe dragon]

I program in neovim so it's just ssh

don't need anything fancy

maybe someday

[marble jewel]

Is it alright to share an Amazon link here? This is one case I'm looking at:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01A6JQQHU/

No idea if that'll work yet

I don't currently plan on running server grade hardware. So hoping to reuse as much of what I already own as possible.

[safe dragon]

fancy

[marble jewel]

The NAS thing happened after I experienced data loss due to power issues in my house

I was like, never again

[crystal wren]

My eventual end goal is one big NAS, enough redundancy, and just abuse Backblaze's generosity by having everything mirrored to them.

[worn remnant]

how does the saying go? "there are two types of people: people who back up, and people who have not yet experienced catastrophic data loss"?

[marble jewel]

I do a Backblaze sync via Duplicacy and Seafile

[crystal wren]

I've been outstandingly lucky with storage for... forever. First storage drive I've had die on my was a 1TB NVMe SSD early this year/late last year.

[safe dragon]

I currently I have a simple raid setup but I've been meaning to look into getting some kind of cloud storage set up just in case, hopefully automatic

I've never had any storage device fail before but I'd rather learn from other people's experience here than my own

[cinder karma]

Apparently if you are capable of taking delivery of like a thousand partially working computers you can get cast offs from big companies for super cheap

Then just fix up 999 of them and keep one for yourself

[sonic mirage]

So I bought some large enterprise drives to build a NAS, but it seems like lots of people that build a NAS and use Unraid or TrueNAS Scale eventually end up running Proxmox and running a VM of one of those on the same hardware instead. How much of a pain/is it possible to migrate to a setup like that from having Unraid or TrueNAS Scale directly on the hardware, if you already have lots of data stored in the NAS?

[lethal walrus]

I wonder if I'll regret making this ship portable python, and install pip to it

[marble jewel]

I haven’t done it yet but plan to. If you still have this question in a few months I’ll let you know how it goes.

I’m tentatively planning on increasing my storage and moving it over from the existing zpool to a new one.

My promox has a small TrueNAS instance for managing its storage, but my actual NAS is running unRAID

I want to merge them together and just run unRAID

[sonic mirage]

Yeah I still have to decide between the two in addition to whether to run it in Proxmox or not. Everything I read says that Unraid is easier in every way, just slightly less performant, but that performance difference isn't noticeable unless you have like 10gigabit

I've not messed with much in terms of setting up systems or backups since for anything hardware or OS related the Systems dept at work handle it and us AppDev guys just worry about the higher level software stuff

[marble jewel]

imo proxmox was pretty easy to setup and I actually wrote over a previous Ubuntu server. I’m glad I set it up and wish I had done that originally.

Nice to have a proper hypervisor and gives me the option to do a prod/non-prod setup

[sonic mirage]

I need to run something like Plex/Jellyfin for my media, so it seems like it'd be better to run that on Proxmox rather than through the VM support that Unraid has

[marble jewel]

Something I haven’t done yet but want to do is get into either ansible or terraform deployments

On unRAID I’m running all that media software using containers which they make really simple with their appstore

[sonic mirage]

Not sure if there'd be any weirdness with it trying to access the storage controlled by another VM though

[marble jewel]

The unRAID shares to other VMs essentially run like they’re local

Assuming they’re on the same hardware because the network is virtual so it’s not actually going through your router or switch

[sonic mirage]

So do you plan to move the media software to be handled by Proxmox once you do your migration, or are you happy with having unraid still run it?

[marble jewel]

Come to think of it, unRAID is not really intended to run on a VM since it's supposed to boot from USB. I'll have to think more about that. Between unRAID and TrueNAS, I personally enjoy working with unRAID more.

I'm not using proxmox for a lot currently, just mostly hosting a few game servers and home assistant

unRAID has got a lot more going on

If I can, I'd want proxmox to host an unRAID VM along with ubuntu, haos, and win11 (atlas os).

[sonic mirage]

There's a number of comments on this post that make it sounds like the migration is pretty easy, but again, no experience with this stuff lol
https://www.reddit.com/r/unRAID/comments/11932g7/anyone_virtualised_unraid_on_proxmox/

And they do mention passing the USB for unraid through

[fleet oriole]

CA was taking no more sass back when he named this method!!!

 private void reallyDoAnimationAtEndOfScheduleRoute()

[sonic mirage]

Someone made a class of a mismash of utility functions for a legacy codebase we maintain called mySpecialClass.cs

While that was mildly amusing, that same someone also typo'd the permissions helper to Premissions, which was much less amusing.

[lethal walrus]

finally git extracts

[lethal walrus]

finally!

[pliant snow]

Good lord are you running all that

[crystal wren]

Yeah, that's a level of madness I did not expect, but absolutely respect.

[pliant snow]

I've run some of those things in the past, but my home server now runs a more modest amount of stuff i more actively use

[thin nimbus]

Does anyone know if there exists a "test farm" save game file which has all (or at least most of) the items placed outside? I pretty sure modders would have something like this to test stuff...

[cinder karma]

that seems suspciouisly on topic

(but no, it's easy enough to generate if I wanted it)

[sonic mirage]

At risk of continuing to be on topic, you could use commands (both debug and normal) to get one built fairly fast (it's what I plan to do soonish) https://stardewvalleywiki.com/Modding:Console_commands

[cinder karma]

yeah, let me derail this chat into a discussion on french grammar adn we can take the on topic to #making-mods-general

[thin nimbus]

fine... :p

[safe dragon]

french grammar

grammatical gender

[cinder karma]

Brb making a programming language with grammatical gender

Every function is either red or green and have fun mixing the two

[earnest cairn]

do they have a purpose?

[safe dragon]

no

[lethal walrus]

finally! actually got cloning working

[pliant snow]

Now theres two of you

[lethal walrus]

hmm

[lethal walrus]

:>

[digital canyon]

Is non C# content allowed here?

[regal ingot]

yes

[digital canyon]

Cool, ty

[digital canyon]

I’m going to have a heart attack with OpenGL

Then c++ pointers… ahhhh

[safe dragon]

good ol opengl

[pastel flax]

I found OpenGL pretty easy to understand as a Pascal programmer. Never did too much with it though as I'm not really a 3D programmer...

[leaden marsh]

I quite like OpenGL honestly

[sand frost]

I don't think self-promo is allowed here

[leaden marsh]

I'm sorry

I hate OpenGL

[cinder karma]

Someone was promoting their twitch haha

[sand frost]

I’m sorry Myuu, you’ve gotta stop shilling for OpenGL 😛 nah, atra’s right

[digital canyon]

[hardy jewel]

😭 poor myuu

[safe dragon]

myuu is opengl confirmed

[leaden marsh]

literally 1984 😭

[crystal wren]

Speaking of OpenGL, do you feel MonoGame's OpenGL renderer is as bad as Ameise thinks it is?

I've had a quick look, and it pains even me.

[leaden marsh]

I would have no clue, I've avoided looking at MonoGame itself, lest I drive myself insane with things I'd like to fix

What I will say, is that the OpenGL version it requires is ancient at this point (which is good for compatibility)

[crystal wren]

Let's just pretend I didn't say that then, because...

[leaden marsh]

All I'm saying is that OpenGL is a significantly smaller learning curve than DirectX or Vulkan, and has much more resources to learn it

Metal is also similarly easy to learn, but is Apple platform specific

[safe dragon]

it's been a long time since I last looked at monogame

[leaden marsh]

But making a boilerplate app for DirectX or Vulkan is much tougher imo, and the Microsoft Component Object Model is a nightmare (DirectX)

I don't have a strong preference between HLSL or GLSL, especially since it's easy enough to convert between the two. I do slightly prefer GLSL because that's what I learned first, and I appreciate the little toys like ShaderToy & other small demos like that

[leaden marsh]

My qualm with Monogame is that I wish they had made it trivial to write for Monogame DX and convert to Monogame GL easily

Valve has offered their ToGL header file freely for converting DirectX to OpenGL for a long time now

[crystal wren]

For my own projects, I just end up running with three. shared MonoGame project, and two dummy DirectX/OpenGL frontend runner projects.

[leaden marsh]

And Monogame already uses rewriters for HLSL -> GLSL, so it would have been nice if we could just dev for MonogameDX (and hence address the Monobug crash), and have it smoothly compile for MonogameGL for other platforms

Yeah that's a good way to go

My other qualm with Monogame is that they don't expose the SDL methods

For 1.6, we fixed the clipboard by P/invoke-ing the SDL clipboard handler, since that gave us the best possible clipboard support cross-platform

[crystal wren]

I found Ameise's complaints, because I couldn't remember them in detail.

[leaden marsh]

Ah makes sense

Fwiw I would not want to be the one maintaining something like Monogame's GL renderer, which has to be pretty general purpose

[crystal wren]

I certainly wouldn't want to be!

Then I'd end up on the hook for a worse renderer than what we have now.

[leaden marsh]

I especially would not want to be the one writing it in C#

As a C programmer, the whole global state thing that OpenGL has going on makes a lot of sense to me

But it seems very contrary to the design decisions of a managed language like C#

[safe dragon]

I don't want to write any renderer...

unless it's funky hobby projects that never need to do anything beyond the super basic

[cinder karma]

Python could have had null operators 😦

Pep 505

[cinder karma]

Eh, you can get pretty low level in c#

A bigger problem maybe is that the lower level stuff is usually net core

I like my bitoperations

[supple ether]

@fleet drum
I mean I've been programming in some capacity for more than a decade now, it's just that it's been little pet projects almost entirely, and many of them are unfinished

I don't really know how to present myself to employers since I don't have any kind of formal training or industry experience

[marble jewel]

I'm a Senior Software Development Manager who was able to get my foot in the door without graduating college, AMA

[fleet drum]

That's kinda the thing about personal projects tho, it gives you an in to talk to people. You get to talk about the projects

It gives you the chance to have people ask about them and you talk to them

[sonic mirage]

I went through 4 majors to arrive at a Bachelors in Computer Science, don't ask me about student loans

[marble jewel]

Although the title is misleading because very little software development happens on my team. We're more into Data and AI.

[fleet drum]

I mean to put it really bluntly, objectively do you think your resume would be better or worse with less C# experience listed

[fleet drum]

oooo fun

[marble jewel]

As someone who has been the hiring manager a bunch, real projects on resumes stand out more than textbook projects or "I was involved in this" without really know what your contributions were

I'll even follow someone's GitHub links if they provide it to see what their actual contributions look like

[safe dragon]

don't think a resume is every going to look better from listing less experience

[fleet drum]

Like I said, my content patcher mod helped get me a job lol They didn't care about the technical aspect really, but it was unique and it got them talking to me.

[marble jewel]

I've interviewed too many people who make wild claims like they generated millions of dollars of revenue for their company on some project, but couldn't really describe much about it, and it turns out they had some side support role

[safe dragon]

I can't give any advice for the job search. I graduated uni and essentially walked straight into job offers immediately after

and I still work there

[sonic mirage]

I tell anyone that asks that you don't need to go to school to be a developer; experience is better. Just build some things that you can talk about / show off.

[fleet drum]

Ultimately the truth of the matter is that presenting yourself to employers just has to start somewhere by you going "hi i do things" and showing those things

[supple ether]

I just hope my code is up to par

[safe dragon]

can't underestimate the value of decent social skills/knowing how to present yourself

[sonic mirage]

You can take those free MITx or HarvardX intro to comp sci classes for free to get the real basics, but before that just try to hack something together for fun

[supple ether]

I feel like I'm pretty good at making my code readable but I have no idea what industry standards are

[safe dragon]

unreadable

[fleet drum]

Nightmare fuel

[supple ether]

social skills ARE something that I excel at, which I know gives me an advantage in the field lol

[tropic anchor]

Actually about to make me add my stardew mods to my linkedin profile

[safe dragon]

I updated documentation once and added a single value to an enum in 1 open source project

that's my open source contributions

[fleet drum]

Ah open source, the most misrepresented portion of development to ever exist probably

[supple ether]

.... should I mention my habit of jar-hacking to fix bugs in old minecraft mods that can't be compiled anymore because the toolchain no longer works?

[fleet drum]

t3.gg had a great video on open source, and I don't always agree with his opinions

[safe dragon]

I mean it makes you sound like a massive nerd but I think that's beneficial

my dev environment at work is distinctly lacking in nerds. It's very corporate and socially nonexistent

[fleet drum]

Ultimately your resume is "making the best with what you've got"

[safe dragon]

I listed whatever I could think of on my resume tbh

[supple ether]

that's unfortunate

[fleet drum]

When I threw mine together I added everything and then just systematically pruned it untill all the BS was gone

[supple ether]

I've only been modding for a few years, but I've been making games as a hobby since the stone age middle school

for a while I was also doing a lot of front-end web stuff

[safe dragon]

I didn't touch programming at all till a few months before I started my comp sci degree. Never even touched html or css

[fleet drum]

Ah yes, front end, the thing that almost made me decide to never touch code ever again

[tropic anchor]

This september will be my fifth year in software development (I can read html)

[safe dragon]

incredible

[supple ether]

js is ass but I actually really like html and css

[tropic anchor]

Flip that around, and that's me, screw css

[supple ether]

people complain about css being confusing and difficult to use but I'm fully convinced that's only because they think it's a language they don't need to learn, and then get frustrated working with a language they don't understand

[safe dragon]

I like css when I have access to component level css

[fleet drum]

My background is in art, and despite that HTML/CSS legit almost made me pursue a trade job instead

It was just so fucking uninteresting to me

[supple ether]

awww

[fleet drum]

Did like 2/3 of the Odin Project course (great course btw) and I was just bored to death

[safe dragon]

I'm in a bit of a weird spot tbh. This place pays incredibly well but it's not remotely enjoyable so I kind of want to leave, but there's very few jobs I would remotely qualify that wouldn't come with a reduction in pay.
A bit of a first world problem for sure but still it bothers me

[tropic anchor]

"Center this div (only one answer is correct)"

[pliant snow]

"Center this div (may god have mercy on your souls)"

[safe dragon]

smh it's 2024

[supple ether]

centering divs is so fuckign easy

[fleet drum]

centering a div was honestly whatever

[supple ether]

even without grid and flex

[safe dragon]

we are no longer in the age of putting something in a table cell to attempt to center it

[fleet drum]

It really wasn't that difficult to me, just really boring

[cinder karma]

Are you sure

[supple ether]

again I feel like people only think css is hard because they know how to write it and think that's the same thing as understanding it as a language

[cinder karma]

I am currently centering pictures in tables

[supple ether]

you gotta know how layering and the box model work too

[fleet drum]

Low level stuff is a lot more interesting to me

[cinder karma]

Microsoft Word grumbles

[pliant snow]

what

[supple ether]

and selector priority

[sonic mirage]

People don't understand the box model and then complain about CSS being hard

[safe dragon]

oh no

[supple ether]

that's totally fair

[safe dragon]

oh no

[tropic anchor]

I know (almost) all of these, and still manage to fuck it up somehow

[fleet drum]

can we link videos in here? Or will I get smited

[supple ether]

how layering and positioning interact is the other one that trips people up a lot

it's off-topic I'm sure it's fine

[safe dragon]

most of my colleagues never looked at css since the introduction of flexbox and they weren't very good at it to begin with. There's some nasty css being written

[sonic mirage]

z-index: 99999;

[supple ether]

yeah

!important my beloathed

[tropic anchor]

[fleet drum]

Anyways I was reminded of this marvel of engineering: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYaLQ3LazYM

Science has absolutely gone too far

[sonic mirage]

I'm so happy I can use :has() now

[supple ether]

dude people who do graphicsi n excel macros scare me

[sonic mirage]

Immediately useful

[pliant snow]

https://stardew.chat

[cinder karma]

Tell me a better way to prevent my captions from divorcing themselves from my images

[tropic anchor]

I raise you one : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2qU7t6Jmfw

[cinder karma]

God I wish I was using latex

[safe dragon]

I haven't used word beyond just putting text onto a document really ever

[fleet drum]

https://tenor.com/view/zoolander-will-ferrell-beautiful-its-beautiful-wonderful-gif-3547414

[supple ether]

that looks fine. only thing I'd change is making the main div a main instead

[pliant snow]

I'm not even sure how much of it I wrote, I think I adapted most of it from mayor lewis's old site

[safe dragon]

so I can judge aero

[pliant snow]

the commands page is the worst one

yeah, he used scss, so I converted it back to css then just used that from now on lol

[safe dragon]

I used scss for a few months on one project but ended up essentially just writing css but with a slow compile step

we ended up just deleting scss from the project cause it was doing absolutely nothing of value

[pliant snow]

i didnt want to deal with some compilation step

its like me with typescript, when all i do is add buttons with event listeners

[supple ether]

one of the web things I'm most proud of was an adaptive, accessible dropdown menu in pure css/html

I wanted to see if I could, because I am so sick of websites using JS for everything, and it turns out the answer is yes

[safe dragon]

I think the most advanced css work I've done was a dashboard of widgets where you could freely place, resize and add widgets to a dashboard.
Honestly the actual widget work was also some of the most complex code I've written

was fun

[supple ether]

ooooo

[fleet drum]

That’s pretty cool

[safe dragon]

I kept eyeing the masonry layout proposal but it's been going nowhere

[fleet drum]

I’ve been motivated to do some cursed UI work after stumbling across r/badUIbattles

[heavy dagger]

https://reddit.com/r/badUIbattles

[pliant snow]

If you're looking for things to diagnose, everyone here can go figure out the latest governor bug i have no idea about lol

[supple ether]

one thing I would really like for web apps and extensions is something to make the whole custom element system more usable

it's not bad- it's quite powerful, but it's just annoyingly obtus sometimes

[cinder karma]

What is it?

[pliant snow]

New members weren't getting given the Villager role anymore. It seems to have coincided with when they turned on the Onboarding server thing, but I have no idea why that would cause issues. They disabled it earlier this morning, and it looks like everything is working again

[cinder karma]

Look it has to be more fun than converting mils to mm and back again

[supple ether]

can't you give people roles with the onboarding thing itself?

[pliant snow]

Probably

Even if they didnt, we can just give a role when users join a server

[safe dragon]

why fix the bug when you can just remove the feature completely

[pliant snow]

but it was weird that it started malfunctioning

[supple ether]

yeah

maybe it was like, they were interacting before technically joining the server or something?

I have no idea how the onboarding thing works under the hood

[pliant snow]

My best guess is that there are some places where I tell functions to return early if theyre a User object and not a Member. The only reason its there is to shut the stupid linter up, as the library uses unions everywhere. If somehow they were still a User type it might not work. But at the same time if they didn't have a server corresponding to them, they shouldn't have gotten that far

[marble juniper]

anyone can help me please..?

[pliant snow]

With?

[marble juniper]

um...smapi mods

i take a picture

[marble jewel]

#archived-modded-support

[marble juniper]

sorry..

[marble jewel]

This isn't the right channel for smapi support

[modest jewel]

All this lag makes me wonder what happens internally when a service goes down

[silver oracle]

im doing a programming project for uni and its not working correct and im going insane

i was thinking - im going to quickly finish this one function and then play 1.6 but the function isn't working correctly and 1.6 isn't out either 😭

[honest walrus]

when in doubt, println it out

[sterile nimbus]

Oh okay so this goes here? Hey I know we're all hype but if anyone has time I was inspired to make a video game recently after playing Stardew for the first time and I was wondering if I could get any advice or suggestions. It's basically an open world RPG based on Romance Fantasy Isekai tropes

[silver oracle]

its a function that generates a game tree where the child node is an array of the number form parent node divided by 2, 3, and 4. sounds complicated, but if parent node is 24, then child nodes would be 6, 8, and 12. If parent node is 30, child nodes would be 10, 15 (but not 7.5 bc it isnt an int)

[supple ether]

what language?

[silver oracle]

python

[supple ether]

my condolences /jk

[honest walrus]

🐍

[silver oracle]

its a turn based game, you decide which divisor you divide by and if resulting number is even, opponent loses one point, if resulting number is odd, you gain one point

[supple ether]

is the game tree a required part of the project, or only the outcome?

[silver oracle]

currently it only increments/decrements only one person and i cant figure out why

[silver oracle]

required unfortunately

its an assignment for intro to artificial intelligence course

[supple ether]

argh why is ai everywhere these days

[silver oracle]

even wore its group work, where groups were decided randomly. We are 6 people

[supple ether]

alright well, what does your code look like right now, and where are you having trouble?

[honest walrus]

meaning its supposed to increment/decrement both people at the same time? Or only one member is having their score altered throughout

[cinder karma]

https://x.com/wyatt_privilege/status/1769541081006244102?s=20

[silver oracle]

this is the result for numbe 6705

[naive onyx]

when is the update

It's almost March 20th

[silver oracle]

the points should be 0 0, 1 0, 1 1

not 0 0, 1 0, 2 0

[supple ether]

1. read bulletin board
2. not what this channel is for

[marble jewel]

Major updates bring out the illiterate in people

[supple ether]

what's the logic behind those numbers? how do you determine what the "desired" result of the code is?

[silver oracle]

in even levels (2, 4) the active player is player 2, in odd player is player 1

[silver oracle]

let me google translate that part of the assignment

"If the division results in an even number, then 1 point is deducted from the opponent's points, if it is an odd number, then the player's own points are increased by 1 point."

[supple ether]

aaaah interesting

[silver oracle]

heres a part of a graphic i made

red is player 1, green is player 2

this is the incorrect version it gives me

[supple ether]

it looks like you're calling get_level before the node has a set parent, unless I'm wrong

[silver oracle]

the numbers on left are level of node using get_level()

[supple ether]

because you're using recursion, the parent isn't set until after the function exits, so get_level will always be treated as top level

[supple ether]

is that printed during generation or after generation?

[silver oracle]

after

[supple ether]

just humor me and try putting in a print(root.get_level()) in GenerateTree

[silver oracle]

yea it's a bunch of zeroes

😭

i have no idea how to fix it tho

[supple ether]

so there's a few ways to fix this. the easiest ways are

• pass the depth as a parameter to GenerateTree
• pass the parent node as a parameter to GenerateTree and have the child add itself
• unwrap the recursion into a queue/stack (ie. make it a loop)

[silver oracle]

ok thanks for the tips!! i'm gonna try to implement them, i'm not that good at recursion so i had no idea where to even start

[safe dragon]

gotta love recursion

[silver oracle]

ok 1.6 is out i dont care about the assignment anymore /hj

[supple ether]

recursion is horrible tbh

[honest walrus]

I've only used it truly for uni and leetcode

[supple ether]

leetcode???

if you're doing leetcode surely it would be better to use loops

[honest walrus]

Specifically dfs questions tbh

[cinder karma]

Recursion is grear

When else do you get to use the stack as your storage

[alpine frigate]

Is there an alternative from VS for mac since it's not going to be updated anymore? Preferably that can support Unity (cries)

[sand frost]

Unfortunately we're stuck with VS Code

I haven't poked it and have no idea how to use it

[alpine frigate]

nuuuuuuu

[marble jewel]

Not free, but on Mac I use Rider

[alpine frigate]

is it one-time payment or monthly?

[marble jewel]

It is a subscription based service, but I was able to score an educational discount because I had an edu email

[alpine frigate]

oh...! I'll try and check if I can get educational discount too since I have edu email as well.

Thank you!!!

[cinder karma]

For students it is free

Also if you have three months of consistent commits to an open source repo you get rider for free

[sand frost]

Does it have to be the same repo? 🤔

[alpine frigate]

I don't think my college has applied(? not sure if it's the right word) with Jetbrains to get a free version unfortunately as it's not English-based uni or even in USA. I have windows so I can still use VS but majority of my Unity projects are done in mac which was why I was looking for alternatives

I honestly don't even believe the college I'm attending is willingly to try something useful for the students hence searching on my own and whatnots

either way, thank you all for helping out!!

[safe dragon]

I always had trouble with "student discounts" because my university email ended in .nl cause dutch

[tropic anchor]

Same, but most of jetbrains stuff worked for me

[alpine frigate]

omg this is perfect. thank you!!

[deep drum]

I've applied every school I've ever been in to the Jetbrains Educational Program, they weren't added before I did it.
Follow the instructions in this repo and make a PR to get your institution added to the "free JB stuff list".
https://github.com/JetBrains/swot

Highly recommend all the JB stuff (but also I'm a total shill, I think it's the best money I spend for my work)

[alpine frigate]

Will do!! thank you

[crystal wren]

Some places also hated/refused to accept .ac.uk!

[crystal wren]

It's also worth noting that JetBrains seem to be super generous with their free open source license. It does limit what you can do with it to OSS stuff, but that's mostly fine for me. Worth considering if you've got an open source project!

[cyan shadow]

I've had a lot of trouble with .in as well!

[crystal wren]

Ends with a country TLD, can't possibly be an educational email!

[safe dragon]

everyone knows all education is done in the country of Edu

no other tlds could be correct

[crystal wren]

@thin estuary Well that's just dumb. Especially because with that limitation, things will have to stick to VS's more limited version anyway if they want most people to use it.

[thin estuary]

...yep!

i wonder if they ever plan to change this

[cinder karma]

What the helll

[thin estuary]

yep, the task was .NET 6
https://github.com/Fayti1703/CS-AssemblyTasks/commit/44fc6d839bc99b7b4c645f614e3bdde94d3ab4f6

[deep drum]

@safe dragon That’s why they have the swot repo I linked above, you can get added even without a .edu

[safe dragon]

i used visual studio since I had to for school which did work just fine with my student email

presumably jetbrains too, never tried

my student email hasn't been valid/accessible in years now so a little late

[pliant snow]

good news, the emergency bouncer fix we added yesterday actually seems to have worked

[crystal wren]

Was it an easy enough tweak?

[pliant snow]

ye, and one that I've thought about for a while but never really had a reason to do lol

[sonic mirage]

Visual Studio Community you just need a GitHub account linked to it I think

It's basically free now for home use

[hexed vortex]

I need some help with Python

here's the prompt:
You have a unique ID number, which is a string of digits. Assume the variable id has been assigned a string that contains your ID number. Write a program that repeatedly reads a string as input. If the string that was entered is not equal to your ID number, the program should display the following string: "This is not your ID number."
If the string that was entered is equal to your ID number, the program should display the string: "This is your ID number:", followed by a space, followed by the ID number, and then terminate the loop.
NOTE: When reading the input, do not display a prompt for the user. Use the input() function with no prompt string. Here is an example:
number = input()

and what i've got so far:
ID_number = input() while ID_number != id: print("This is not your ID number.") ID_number = input() print("This is your ID number:", id)

problem is that according to the submission site, this has a run-time logic error. I...got no idea how to fix it x.x or where the problem is

"Your code contains a run-time error. That means that the code is correct from a language point of view but is doing something 'illegal' at run-time: accessing an invalid memory location, dividing by zero, or something like that. Checking array or other indices, pointers, and loops would be a good idea."

[cinder karma]

Use code blocks plz

Hard to tell but I don't see how you get out of that loop if you get into it

[crystal wren]

```python
number = input()
and what i've got so far:
id = "12345"
ID_number = input()
while ID_number != id:
    print("This is not your ID number.")
ID_number = input()
print("This is your ID number:", id)

Like this!

...damn it, doesn't nest them properly.

Like this.

[cinder karma]

Personally i recommend an online python thingie

[hexed vortex]

tried an AI python assistant...got nada

[cinder karma]

Not ai

I was thinking a sandbox

Like dotnetfiddle but for python

[hexed vortex]

no idea what that means o-o

[pliant snow]

There is def a problem with your code yeah

[hexed vortex]

the problem is i dont know how to fix it

[cinder karma]

(This feels like homework so I'm giving hints not answers)

If you go into the while loop how do you get out of it?

[pliant snow]

Let's just walk through what yours does

You store "12345" into id, good

check for user input, good

then while the user input isn't 12345, you print a warning

then while the user input isn't 12345, you print a warning

then while the user input isn't 12345, you print a warning

then while the user input isn't 12345, you print a warning

then while the user input isn't 12345, you print a warning

etc

[hexed vortex]

technically the ID = 12345 isn't needed cus im supposed to assume that's already assigned

[pliant snow]

which is fine

[crystal wren]

Fortunately, that's not the relevant part!

[pliant snow]

but you enter that while loop where you wait for those two values to be equal

but they'll never change

[round shuttle]

Updating monogame project to .net8 is headache🤯, but I was successful. But atill I need target some parts to .net6 because monogame,s MGCB. So I have a hybrid a monster slime: .net8 for entire game project but .net6 for the content pipeline stuff 🫤

[devout vault]

Oof

Use a shared project (assuming you aren't already)?

[round shuttle]

What solves that?

[lyric bloom]

I got so used to python that I forgot how to do string interp @.@

[cinder karma]

I keep doing $ in my python

[lyric bloom]

I kept typing f'

<_<

[supple ether]

there was one time I did an @$ string but I eventually swapped it out for a stringbuilder because it was hideously unreadable

[leaden marsh]

I keep doing this too

[safe dragon]

I do this in every language I try to use with mixed success

[deep drum]

D:

[lethal walrus]

For python users learning js, I present javascript f-strings! (Yes I wrote this in termux, on my phone)

[pliant snow]

this seems slightly cursed

[safe dragon]

why are there no parentheses around the parameter

surely this isn't valid syntax

tf is even going on here

the more I look at this the worse it gets

how are there two functions assigned to f

is that even what I'm reading

[pliant snow]

no, f is just that function which does the regex replace

[safe dragon]

oh wait

I missed that the second function was inside the parameters of the replace

why do you index into str

wouldn't you be calling the function on the first character in the string

[pliant snow]

is it a cursed pointer

[safe dragon]

apparently these are "template literals"

functionName`something ${interpolated expression}`

f here is a "tag function"

surely they could've used a more descriptive syntax for this that doesn't just look like a regular function declaration

Love googling examples of templates literals and one of the examples in the article is a blatant sql injection vulnerability

[pliant snow]

oh its dynamic alright

who knows what request you'll end up with

[safe dragon]

I'm sure with these "tag functions" you could retain this way of writing but have the tag function make it injection safe

but they did not do that here

thank you freeCodeCamp

https://github.com/TehShrike/sql-tagged-template-literal

someone did indeed create a sql injection safe tagged template literal

it hasn't been updated in two years but I'm sure it's fine

oh node-mssql has it too, that seems to be a more active thing

[lethal walrus]

you're welcome

https://probably-does-not-currently-or-previously.has-vir.us/wcixVURfxz https://file.coffee/u/u_vlkZMN_YjBFVRX5_q8s.txt

[supple ether]

ah yes jsfuck

[lethal walrus]

it's fun

[thin estuary]

Well atra, I don’t have much to add to the topic anyway rofl

[marble jewel]

My fun project of the day week month year is to implement a parser so that I can support more advanced searching like AND OR NOT and parenthesis

[thin estuary]

The article mentioned that one of the approaches has the problem of catastrophic backtracking

That’s all I remember

[marble jewel]

I've never done anything like this before, so it'll be a fun challenge

[thin estuary]

I’ve found an interesting library for writing parsers recently

But I guess you want to write one from scratch

[marble jewel]

I'm open to a library. At least to get more familiar with it all.

[thin estuary]

https://github.com/Shockah/Nickel/commit/99e79187a642b6e197deab59fe240aed85fcd7ee

[marble jewel]

Oh yeah that one did come up when I was researching

[thin estuary]

it does need some getting used to, but it gets the results very easily

back in the day in college we used ANTLR, wrote some grammar, then had to write some visitors to use it at all

[marble jewel]

Another one I found is this example using Parseq https://github.com/louthy/language-ext/wiki/Thinking-Functionally:-Combinators#combinator-libraries

[devout vault]

Oh, I did a parser recently!

[marble jewel]

For that CP mod, right?

[devout vault]

Though not for precendence and stuff

Yeah!

[marble jewel]

What are you using?

[devout vault]

C# 😄

(I didn't use a library)

[marble jewel]

Lol, I'm interested in studying your code

[devout vault]

There's no such thing as operators in that little language

It's kinda dumb

[marble jewel]

My use case is pretty simple, so a full fledged library might be overkill

[devout vault]

Everything is a function call

https://github.com/spacechase0/StardewValleyMods/tree/develop/SpaceShared/Content

ContentParser does the parsing, ContentEngine process includes and whatnot, and PatchContentEngine turns it into Patches like CP

It's a mess

[marble jewel]

My syntax is - everything is a search term unless it's AND OR NOT, and I also need to deal with ( )

At least for now

[devout vault]

Search term?

[marble jewel]

Yeah, trying to implement a search feature with the search term is user input

[devout vault]

Ah

With mine you'd have to do "AND( cond1, cond2 )" for example

I didn't implement it in the proepr way to do a language either, I just sorta... threw it together

[marble jewel]

for example "this AND (that OR something else)"

[devout vault]

There might be bugs, I did it in a weekend and have been tweaking it the past week or two

[marble jewel]

I'm trying to implement it in a way that's accessible to the lowest common denominator

[devout vault]

Yeah for mine that would be AND( this; OR( that; something else ) )

That's fair, mine isn't really friendly if you haven't done a little coding before

[marble jewel]

My assumption is that everyone using this will use it wrong, so ideally it'd self-repair to an extent

[devout vault]

Right

Mine just bails on syntax error

...oh, I don't have the example stuff pushed to github

// weapons.txt
// Mythicite Chakrams
Entry( Data/Weapons; &_MythiciteChakrams )
Include( templates/chakram.txt; {
    Name: Mythicite Chakrams;
    NameI18n: mythicite-chakrams;
    SpriteIndex: 21;
    MinDamage: 45;
    MaxDamage: 65;
    Defense: 1;
    CritChance: 0.15;
} );

// ... more weapons ...

// chakram.txt
Include( weapon.txt;
{
    WeaponType: 0; // Invalid in vanilla but chakrams override all relevant values
    Knockback: ^( Knockback; 0.75 );
    CustomFields:
    {
        spacechase0.MoonMisadventuresRedux_IsChakram: true;
    }
} );

// weapon.txt
{
    Name: ^( Name );
    DisplayName: %( Concatenate( weapon.; ^( NameI18n ); .name ) );
    Description: %( Concatenate( weapon.; ^( NameI18n ); .description ) );
    Type: ^( WeaponType );
    Texture: @( ../items.png );
    SpriteIndex: ^( SpriteIndex );
    MinDamage: ^( MinDamage );
    MaxDamage: ^( MaxDamage );
    Knockback: ^( Knockback; 1 );
    Speed: ^( Speed; 0 );
    Precision: ^( Precision; 0 );
    Defense: ^( Defense; 0 );
    AreaOfEffect: ^( AreaOfEffect; 0 );
    CritChance: ^( CritChance; 0.02 );
    CritMultiplier: ^( CritMultiplier; 3 );
    CustomFields: ^( CustomFields; {} );
}

Quotes are really needed for using special characters (and you can also use \ for those )

[marble jewel]

Good call out, I wonder if I should add that to my syntax

[thin estuary]

quotes complicate everything

[marble jewel]

I'll avoid it for now, I don't trust the users

[crystal wren]

Are we meant to?

[marble jewel]

A lot of times issues are my fault, but sometimes they're not, and those are the most tedious to troubleshoot. You don't have the right info, and you have to try infinite combinations to rule everything out.

https://tenor.com/view/tom-cruise-help-me-help-you-jerry-maguire-gif-9201387

[safe dragon]

parser combinator libraries are actually quite nice to use

most my parser experience is unfortunately in Haskell

never used one of these in C#

I find parser combinators nicer than regex that's for sure. And it's generally a lot faster as a bonus

[marble jewel]

I'm more familiar with regex, so that would be within my comfort zone, but it seems parser combinators is the right way to do what I'm trying to accomplish

[safe dragon]

it's definitely better suited for any more complex syntax

[cinder karma]

Nom Nom nom

[safe dragon]

smh nom is a rust parser combinator library not C#

[cinder karma]

That said c# regex for dotnet 7 and later is amazing

[safe dragon]

the source generator ones?

[supple ether]

sourcegen regex? that sounds incredible

[safe dragon]

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/standard/base-types/regular-expression-source-generators

I've used em a few times

[regal ingot]

s-expressions are the way. Write your program directly in your AST.

[marble jewel]

tbh I could probably hack together a good enough parser by just doing string split on space.

But doing it this way is mostly to learn how

[safe dragon]

parser combinators really shine when you want to be able to provide error messages on faulty inputs

since you can't always assume a user is going to provide a correct input

it's fun to try out

[supple ether]

I use regex for more complicated parsing but for simple stuff I just kind of write a state machine

not like, some full blown thing, just a little switch statement in a loop

[safe dragon]

for uni I had to write like a basic C# parser using haskell that'd then be converted into some stack machine code

really basic, I don't think it even had any list/array support

still struggled though

[marble jewel]

Y'all. I try so hard, but I just can't sometimes...

Customer: Why was my request rejected?
(Email shows access request to X rejected - must follow these steps [link])

Me: Where does the link go to?

Customer: It goes a generic "X Access Instructions" page. So how do I get access to X?

Me: Here is the link with instructions on how to request access to X. [same link]
Just one highlight from my day today

https://tenor.com/view/everything-is-fine-drinks-pour-pitcher-sad-gif-18333382426533605672

[safe dragon]

do you work in support

I struggle enough explaining things to consultants

[marble jewel]

I manage a cloud data platform

[modest jewel]

Luv me IT job! (Unemployed)

[safe dragon]

surprisingly I'm barely even the IT person in my family

they mostly figure it out themselves

though my mom will still wait with doing anything new till I visit

[lethal walrus]

very interesting what strings are in the switch exefs

think I found the standard library function declarations

heh

[sand frost]

re: github one of my brothers is using some nightmare version control software

I forget the name but it appears to require copy and paste instead of merge

[devout vault]

That does sound frightening

[marble jewel]

The old popular ones were like cvs, svn, mercurial, and then there's of course a hacked together "version control" using something like Dropbox which I've seen happen on development teams in a billion dollar company.

[devout vault]

ew

[marble jewel]

Their version control was appending a version number to files, and keeping every version of things.

[devout vault]

I used SVN 13-14 years ago

[marble jewel]

Oh and Sharepoint, ugh that was the worst

[devout vault]

Not sharepoint!

[marble jewel]

You'd think someone with the title of Sr Software Engineer would know how to navigate git, but that assumption would be incorrect

[cinder karma]

What the hell

[sand frost]

I hate share point

[simple dragon]

I'm optical and mechanical support for an optics lab (so the whole thing is optics and mechanics) and a little while back we got an email to the support group from a supervisor as follows:

The system is broken

Thanks,
Name

I feel your pain

[sand frost]

I had to use it to upload a bunch of large files

It has not even a progress bar

So I discovered it can’t upload large files after waiting for an hour

And deciding that was probably long enough that it should have worked

[simple dragon]

Anyway the problem was that the system (one of hundreds, and he did not initially specify which) wasn't plugged in 💖

Users are special and I feel your pain

[marble jewel]

This wasn't recently, but one experience that really had me shaking my head was someone complaining that the data warehouse was slow and that we needed to fix it. I looked at his query, and he was producing a cartesian product between multiple tables without any where clause, and it would have produced trillions of rows.

It was something like

SELECT *
FROM table1, table2, table3

[cinder karma]

Typo I nearly missed: thicc gate oxide

[sonic mirage]

We still have a ton of clients in our SVN repo. Anything we work on regularly, or especially in teams, we migrate to our git, but since the SVN is a monorepo its a non-trivial process to get each "repo" out of the monorepo and into git

So 1/3 the time for little things I'm still commiting to the "trunk" folder for SVN for a client

That reminds me I need to bug our lead to migrate some more lol

It was only maybe two years ago we even set up Git

[fleet oriole]

A question, if I may: VS sometimes just will not search for things. Like: “bed”. VS: there’s no bed anywhere in this entire solution! Literally I am looking at it on the screen. I even deleted bin and obj, but still, not change.

[sonic mirage]

Double check the other settings in the Find window. Make sure it's set to Entire Solution, and that you don't have any of the case matching options on

Do Ctrl + Shift + F and go over all the options in there; the smaller Ctrl + F window isn't always very easy to tell what's on or off

[sonic mirage]

You can also rebuild the solution, though that's not usually the issue. Note that I don't think it searches inside files marked with [Decompiled], so you'll need to use ILSpy to save the decompiled game to its own csproj to be able to open and search the game code

[fleet oriole]

It’s my own code it refuses to search, sadly! (I have decomiled the code with IL spy, I do not know if it is the greatest decompile of all time, but it seems good, just…. Sometimes, some weirdness, but I forget what.) thanks for the advice! When I get off work tonight, I will hit it up!

[safe dragon]

crossjoin all the tables

[regal ingot]

I once, many years ago, had some query that was really slow that shouldn't have made any competent database break a sweat. The "DBA" that we sent this to came back with "well, if you change these left joins to inner joins and blah, blah... then it's plenty fast." Like. My dude. If the query is allowed to return the wrong answer then I can write one that returns the wrong answer really fast.

[safe dragon]

I can skip the query completely

ez

[cinder karma]

Def query(): return 42

[safe dragon]

don't even need a database

we actually have some pretty skilled dba people at work

which is good cause we have like several hundred stored procedures

I didn't like stored procedures very much when I got here but they've grown on me

I still would rather not use them due to how annoying they are for debugging but I honestly prefer it over entity framework

I've gone from being pro ORMs to preferring just being able to write sql directly

[cinder karma]

Still love Django's operator overloading bs though

[safe dragon]

I'm not familiar with django

other than what it is

[cinder karma]

In my days in college I hung out with some questionable people

We did things like send trains to each other's terminals and program in python

My questionable youth

[safe dragon]

sending... trains to each other's terminals

I am definitely missing some terminology here

[cinder karma]

https://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/displays-animations-when-accidentally-you-type-sl-instead-of-ls.html

[safe dragon]

programming in python tho

[cinder karma]

then if you and your friends are all on the same server, you can just send one to THEIR terminal

[safe dragon]

it's incredible

I'm trying it out rn

beautiful train

I'll keep it around for when I accidentally misstype ls again

[silent sky]

my first time playing with regex. probably loads of stuff that could be done better, but here it is! from here: #making-mods-general message

using System;
using System.Text.RegularExpressions;
using System.IO;
using System.Text;

namespace FixMyNumbers
{
    internal class Program
    {
        static void Main(string[] args)
        {
            Regex regex = new Regex(@"([0-9])\w+"); // find numbers
            Console.WriteLine("Give a path");
            string path = Console.ReadLine() ?? "";
            string result = "";
            using (StreamReader sr = new StreamReader(path))
            {
                while (!sr.EndOfStream) // as long as not end of string
                {
                    MatchCollection matches; // init matches
                    string line = sr.ReadLine() ?? ""; // read line
                    if (line == "")
                    {
                        result += "\n"; // add newline to result
                        continue;
                    }
                    matches = regex.Matches(line);
                    foreach (Match match in matches) // for every number (or at least, match)
                    {
                        if (Regex.Match(match.Value, @"([a-z-A-Z]{1})").Success) // if contains letters
                            continue; // skip
                        line = line.Replace(match.Value, Math.Floor(double.Parse(match.Value) / 3).ToString()); // replace value with value / 3
                    }
                    result += line + "\n"; // add line to result
                }
                sr.Close();
            }
            using (FileStream fs = new FileStream(path, FileMode.OpenOrCreate)) // new filestream at path
            {
                byte[] bytes = Encoding.UTF8.GetBytes(result); // get result bytes
                fs.Write(bytes, 0, result.Length); // write result
            }
        }
    }
}```

[cinder karma]

What is this for?

Oic

Look up MatchEvaluator

[cinder karma]

Console.WriteLine("Please input a valid path");
var path = Console.ReadLine();

if (string.IsNullOrEmpty(path))
{
    Console.WriteLine("Not a valid path");
    return;
}
var file = new FileInfo(path);
if (!file.Exists)
{
    Console.WriteLine("That file does not exist");
    return;
}

var regex = new Regex(@"\b\d+\b"); // \b is word boundary.

using var sr = new StreamReader(file.FullName);
# this is not perfectly correct, I should be splitting out the extension, but being lazy.
using var output = new StreamWriter(Path.Combine(file.Directory?.FullName ?? "", file.Name + "_processed"));

string? nextLine;
while ( (nextLine = sr.ReadLine()) is not null)
{
    output.WriteLine(regex.Replace(nextLine, MatchEvaluator));
}

string MatchEvaluator(Match match)
{
    return Math.Floor(double.Parse(match.Value) / 3).ToString();
}

[modest timber]

yo good morning, my sve is bugged, i have doubled items in the game menu, and theyre canceling each other out. how do i fix? pls help ;-;

[pliant snow]

You'll probably have better luck asking in #archived-modded-support

[modest timber]

k thx

[modest jewel]

JS yelling if a class is in the same file as a function... probably makes sense, but it makes me appreciate that C# doesn't

[sterile crescent]

using System;
using System.IO;
using System.Linq;
using Microsoft.Xna.Framework;
using Microsoft.Xna.Framework.Audio;
using StardewModdingAPI;
using StardewModdingAPI.Events;
using StardewValley;
using Newtonsoft.Json;
using System.Collections.Generic;
private SoundEffectInstance CreateSoundEffectInstance(string filePath, bool loop = false)
{
    try
    {
        using FileStream stream = new FileStream(filePath, FileMode.Open);
        SoundEffect soundEffect = SoundEffect.FromStream(stream);
        SoundEffectInstance instance = soundEffect.CreateInstance();
        instance.IsLooped = loop;
        return instance;
    }
    catch (Exception ex) when (ex is FileNotFoundException || ex is IOException)
    {
        this.Monitor.Log($"Failed to load sound effect file: {ex.Message}\n{ex.StackTrace}", LogLevel.Error);
        return null;
    }
}

I installed monogame 3.8.1 but CS1061 occurs at instance.IsLooped = loop;
pls help me

[thin estuary]

Where did this code come from? And why is it in this channel? And what do you even mean by „installed MonoGame” in this context?

[sterile crescent]

im making a mod to change the sound, but the Instance.IsLooped = loop didn't work so I asked AI and I installed monogame because it said me to install monogame

[thin estuary]

!chatgptmods

What was the command…

!chatgptcode

[indigo mist]

Please stop trying to get ChatGPT to write your C# mods for you, especially if you don't know how to write C#. It won't work without heavy editing, and it wastes everyone's time.

Large language models fundamentally are reguritating something from their input—which is roughly speaking, the written output of humanity up until 2021 or so, for ChatGPT. For specific, niche topics like "is this framework going to do what I want" or "which things does Game1.cs have access to", it probably has no idea! But it's good at detecting that people in the past have....said things about frameworks and written things in C#, so it does its best to assemble words and symbols into a nice order for you. Sometimes it tells you true things, and sometimes it tells you false things, and if you can't detect when, you're in trouble. When you're writing code, this usually produces garbage, because you can't be "sort of similar", you have to be exactly correct or it won't work.

[thin estuary]

Also if you’re doing Stardew mods, #making-mods-general is the correct channel

[sterile crescent]

ok thanks

[safe dragon]

damn

I hadn't really considered that people would try writing mods with chatgpt

[thin estuary]

A lot of them try to, we wouldn’t have the command otherwise

Obviously it ends up being hilariously bad

[safe dragon]

yeah

[bronze idol]

[crystal wren]

Well hot damn. Zero merge conflicts going from my old 1.6 alpha branch to the old 1.5.6 master branch. Can't help but feel like something's silently gone terribly wrong for that to happen without issue.

[pliant snow]

Did they deviate?

If the alpha branch only had the new changes then it would fast forward and not have any conflicts at all

[regal ingot]

just no.

[fading lynx]

heya, I don't have .net 6.0, i wrote a mod using 5.0 and it works fine on stardew 1.6
could I have compatibility issues if I keep writing mods using 5.0 ?

not really sure I understand the differences, I don't usually code in C#

[cinder karma]

I'm surprsied that works.

[fading lynx]

ah 😅

[regal ingot]

I'm not... a lot of the existing mods kept working.

[cinder karma]

but usually you can't compile a new mod...oh I can't read

[regal ingot]

yeah, being able to build against the latest smapi might not work

[fading lynx]

i mean, it's a small mod anyway so I wasn't expecting it to fail, but I was wondering how backwards compatible 6.0 is

[cinder karma]

dotnet core versions are generally fine

it's game changes I'd be more worried about

[fading lynx]

ok, that's good to know

wdym by game changes ?

like, the engine ?

i noticed some functions have been updated but it didn't seem to break anything on my old stuff

[cinder karma]

a lot changed in the backend

[bronze idol]

@cinder karma
this is what i do in lieu of guards

and that ghastly thing above it, ech

but just doing [Exception].ThrowIf suits fine

reads clean, one liner

[cinder karma]

oh, ArgumentNullExeption is older than I thought

I thought it was 7

[bronze idol]

Same

[lethal walrus]

mmmm many languages

[safe dragon]

what on earth is nsis

[safe dragon]

ah an installer creator for windows

[pliant snow]

nsis: miami

[tropic anchor]

There are days when I wish I had just become a kindergarten teacher instead, I could be telling some kid why they shouldn't eat playground sand rn...

[cinder karma]

That seems on topic Max

[sand frost]

Kindergartners seem scarier to me, but they are cuter than GUIs I suppose 🤔

[safe dragon]

its not it's smh ur lucky kindergartner teachers don't teach grammar smh

[tropic anchor]

I'm going to use the English is not my first language excuse and leave it there

[bronze idol]

I wasn't sure what i was looking for

is that the only mistake?

[tropic anchor]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

Probably not, document is already 200 lines long

[bronze idol]

oh, i misunderstood the context

i thought you were roasting someone

you're just documenting?

[safe dragon]

I'd be the annoying guy on the PR

[tropic anchor]

ye

[bronze idol]

i feel you. i sometimes long to return to nature

[safe dragon]

documentation sucks to do

[bronze idol]

it's wonderful to have, but nobody wants to be the one

it's like having to do your chores and then write a four page essay about it

i didn't mind the chores

[tropic anchor]

Maybe I should have thought of this before going Hey! Let's make a framework mod

[bronze idol]

[my] bad analogy. i have grown to like having documentation enough to do it

but it still rankles

[safe dragon]

for a library documentation becomes even more important yet also way more annoying because you have to document stuff that would normally be obvious to people who actually work on the project instead of just being a library user

[bronze idol]

my boss makes us uml diagram

[safe dragon]

like boss boss?

[bronze idol]

ye

[safe dragon]

I don't think my boss knows what a UML diagram is

even though we've shown them

[bronze idol]

i don't hate uml diagramming, i just got soft and lazy in my years.

i got spoiled by admittedly bad bosses letting me just kinda do what i want.

[safe dragon]

most cases in the past where I've made a UML diagram it ended up being just incredibly obvious and no one ever looked at it again

[pliant snow]

thats how they all go

[bronze idol]

we did a gnarly one that paid off.

but it was using the diagram to architect that paid off

not that it helped someone later

[pliant snow]

im convince no one actually knows the different arrow types without looking them up

[bronze idol]

i know aggregate and composition and implements and that's basically it

lol

that covers most things

[safe dragon]

a proper UML diagram of our entire backoffice application would be an absolute nightmare and gigantic... and then be out of date within the time it took to make

[bronze idol]

same, our app is berserk with tech debt so it would be pretty pointless

we only do it on new stuff

honestly basic workflows tend to do more for people/design than UML. UML is like codifying exactly what you're going to do before you do it, which tends to argue with reality later, by nature.

because it's rare to get things perfect on try 1

[safe dragon]

not for me

rare implies it's ever happened

[bronze idol]

hahaha

what even is perfect

perfect is code you don't write. when you say no to a client

that's as pure as code can ever be

[safe dragon]

saying no to a client is a novel concept

[bronze idol]

I'm out here writing fiction

[fleet oriole]

Hello loves! I feel rather a demanding cur asking this here... But... I just got my first pull request!!!! For a translation file! And now...

What do I do with it? How do I integrate it?

Oooh! I clicked on it!

Sorry, I thought there was some fancy buttons or something somewhere!

[supple ether]

if you go to the pull request there should be a big green button on the page

[south dagger]

You know that feeling when you finally, finally, not depressed enough anymore to start/continue learning programming again so decide to make a mod for a game you adore? Then you realize you never worked with c# so better to update a mod and try to learn that way only to realize that you never worked with the sdv api before and trying to update a mod from the old mod helper (Tools description) to 1.6?

Yeah? Me neither

[south dagger]

Right, gonna start where we should have. Youtube!

[earnest cairn]

imho its better to start on small things that you want to do

updating an old mod means you need to learn the old way and the new way to do things

so you need to learn twice as much

[leaden marsh]

you'd also need to learn to understand other people's code, which can be difficult even for experienced developers

[south dagger]

Did want to update deluxe journal but considering what you both said, we’ll just do what shekurika suggested then

[crystal wren]

Yeah, I was going to chime in and suggest that updating an existing mod might be far more difficult than just making your own first one to start off with.

[torn zenith]

Curious. Do any of you know C++ and can you recommend where I should go to learn/find examples that I can implement into a game?

[devout vault]

I used SFML for my c++ games. Though I don’t use c++ much these days outside of work

[torn zenith]

Yeah I am working on coding my own handheld game and I'm using a Raspberry Pico which reads C++

[devout vault]

Nice

[crystal wren]

Programmable in C and MicroPython

I think you made the wise choice of language.

[torn zenith]

Yeah I haven't heard of Micropython before now and I've come across C++ a few times so I figure it's probably better to learn that language in the long run then something obscure. Though I could be wrong

[crystal wren]

Okay, it looks like it at least has access to OpenGL? Maybe?

[cinder karma]

Micropython sounds like a cut down python

[crystal wren]

So if SDL isn't light enough for it... you're in for some raw OpenGL fun!

[supple ether]

oh boy

[torn zenith]

I'm hoping that I can find code examples of the base of what I want to accomplish and build off of it because I honestly can't imagine trying to figure everything out from scratch

[crystal wren]

This might be a good reference for a starting point!

[torn zenith]

Oooo

[pliant snow]

As someone who has gone down that rabbit hole before, I would advise to not reinvent the wheel if you don't have to lol

[crystal wren]

Yeah, definitely only reinvent the wheel if the purpose of your journey is to invent a wheel by yourself.

[pliant snow]

it starts with making your own game, and ends up diving into how the raw framebuffers work to render a square from scratch

[torn zenith]

Yeah, I'm trying to make a little handheld game sort of like a tamagotchi. So I'm hoping I can find someone's code for the basics and build off that to achieve what I'm trying to do

[crystal wren]

I can't imagine that SDL would be too heavy, so I guess I would attempt to start there.

[torn zenith]

Yeah like the main features I'm looking to implement are
Mini games
Gold shop for accessories
achievement tracking across single pets and then multiple pets
and a timer

[pliant snow]

I think theres a version of pygame for pico

does your pico have a screen, or are you just connecting to HDMI?

[torn zenith]

I'm going to be using a screen. Right now the current screen is an SSD1306 but i want to upgrade to a larger and multicolored screen eventually (once I figure out how to do so...)

[pliant snow]

in that case yeah, you'll have to use their API probably

[safe dragon]

if SDL is too heavy idk what you'd even do man

after that it gets too low level for me

[torn zenith]

Yeah it has like 2mb to run off of I think

[safe dragon]

ah

[crystal wren]

At that point... GLUT and pray.

[safe dragon]

raw calls to the device's display api

I should maybe try learn some basic C++ someday

[torn zenith]

I found this person's blog post and they include their coding but I can't seem to figure out what language it is in
https://www.kevsrobots.com/blog/picotamachibi.html

Oh Micropython

[pliant snow]

did we crash their website

[safe dragon]

the website doesn't seem to be too keen on loading for me

[torn zenith]

Hahahaha

[safe dragon]

oh there it is

[torn zenith]

It's micropython. It was bolded in a header and I'm just blind apparently

[pliant snow]

something something pico-8 runs on raspberry pis

[safe dragon]

pico8 is true nerd programming

intentionally restricting yourself to very limited resources

[pliant snow]

freeing yourself from the burden of choice

[supple ether]

some of the most fun I had making games was on gamemaker 7, which was very limited

it only had binary transparency and I remember fiddling with blend modes trying to figure out a way to use them to encode opacity and color into two opaque sprites stacked on top of each other

[devout vault]

Game maker 7, that brings back some memories

[crystal wren]

I even remember using that!

[marble jewel]

I got into programming playing around with a bunch of different game makers. RPG Toolkit, Sphere, Verge, Ika, OHRRPGCE

I never actually made a complete game, just built tech demos that I shared with others

[supple ether]

game maker 7 is what got me into programming!

[crystal wren]

For me, it was... well, pretty basic.

Heh... get it?

Because...

[safe dragon]

hehe

[marble jewel]

I remember Basic, I used that in an intro to programming course in like... grade 6 or something

[safe dragon]

I didn't really "get into programming". I just didn't know what to do after high school and decided to study computer science

turned out I loved it

[marble jewel]

My social group in High School used to create games on our TI calculators and share them with each other

[safe dragon]

I didn't even program on my TI

[marble jewel]

I made a basic RPG, and I remember finding a way to encode the map pixels as lists that I'd decode into binary

[supple ether]

for me it was like "oh shit I can make my own video games" and then drag-and-drop gradually taught me programming concepts and I eventualy went full-code

[safe dragon]

I've made a few small games since my degree had a few game development related classes as part of the curriculum

I've learnt I like learning about programming technologies more than I do actually commiting to some specific project though

[strange copper]

the curse of never finishing projects lol

[safe dragon]

I like game development in theory but I have absolutely zero drive to make a game nor any idea what I would make

[strange copper]

do you like building things outside of game dev or is game dev the thing you like the most?

[safe dragon]

most of what I do is more around server/web dev stuff

[marble jewel]

This is why modding suits me well, I've never been able to do a whole game from start to finish despite multiple attempts, but with modding I can make my small contribution and feel good about myself

[strange copper]

I feel like the mod i've been working on is going to be the first personal project i've finished in so long

it's not too big of a commitment and nobody said I had to do it for work or class. it's just for me

[safe dragon]

I've never played with mods in sdv nor do I really know anything about it

this channel is the first time I've really looked in the game modding category lmao

I've been here for longer than the game has been out but despite that

[strange copper]

I got into modding like 2 weeks ago because I was bored over spring break lol, maybe someday you'll get a random burst of inspiration

[marble jewel]

Modding (C#) definitely teaches you some real-world programming skills that you don't get from school

One of the most useful skills is learning how to work with a codebase that you didn't write yourself

[safe dragon]

I do more than enough C# programming in my dayjob to feel any need or desire to do even more of it in my free time

[strange copper]

when the decompiler gives me some comments i celebrate so hard 😭

[marble jewel]

It's so much easier to solve a problem from scratch than when you have constraints like external dependencies which you have no control over

That's a life lesson that I've found super valuable in the industry

[supple ether]

also I feel like modding has made me a more independent programmer? more ability to figure something out myself rather than asking someone else

[safe dragon]

can confirm. Adding or changing a program that's been developed on for ages by many different people is a completely different experience from building something from scratch yourself

[marble jewel]

Honestly, if I was hiring a software developer, and someone had mods on their GitHub account, I'd have a bias towards them

[strange copper]

that's the thing I know a lot of people complain about in computer science education. people don't learn how to work with existing projects and go look stuff up themself

[devout vault]

I think that’s how I got my current job

[safe dragon]

the closest we got in comp sci to that was being given a template to expand on for something

[devout vault]

Not counting Sdv 1.6 of course

[marble jewel]

That can be a pro/con. The one thing that amateur and/or textbook developers lack is learning how to contribute towards a bigger group effort.

It's like how does a whole team contribute into one project without stepping on each other

[supple ether]

that's part of why I've been trying to get more involved with collaborative mods

and to a lesser extent PRs

[marble jewel]

One of the most common issues I see at my work are people breaking the build pipeline due to merge conflicts

[safe dragon]

One thing I've learnt from an actual job in development is to ask questions earlier instead of spending sometimes hours trying to figure it out myself

[strange copper]

it's so easy to forget to merge master in first 💀

like you forget other people have been working while you were working

[safe dragon]

I don't really need to ask questions anymore now though, people now come to me for the questions

[supple ether]

I meant less in the vein of "being too proud to ask for help" and more in the vein of "not going to stackoverflow every 5 seconds to copy-paste somebody else's algorithm"

[marble jewel]

https://tenor.com/view/no-i-am-the-one-who-knocks-gif-15444401

[safe dragon]

I don't know when the last time was that I was on stackoverflow but at the earliest somewhere in 2023

[sand frost]

Modding has taught me a lot about how to fuck up and then come back from that in terms of github

and it's suprisingly been really helpful at work recently

[marble jewel]

ChatGPT/Copilot have effectively replaced Stackoverflow for me

[supple ether]

I've been on stackoverflow a couple of times for undocumented implementation details

[sand frost]

I've merge conflicted on myself, I've deleted the entire repo, I've hopelessly snarled the commit histories—and I survived

[marble jewel]

As well as using google to search reddit - also replaced by AI

[sand frost]

and now I can teach other people how not to do that!

[supple ether]

I would really rather not use GPT for anything, I do not trust it

[sand frost]

casey was very nice about my fuckups, too

[marble jewel]

I don't take GPT at face value, but find it helpful for me to gather my own thoughts

[supple ether]

not in a "I think it's evil" way but in an "I don't trust this thing not to hallucinate" way

[devout vault]

Yeah I don’t trust anything GPT writes. I don’t use it at all

[safe dragon]

tbh 90% of the programming I do at work isn't googleable. It's not complex in a programming sense, it's just highly complex business logic wise which you won't find on google(or chatgpt/copilot for that matter it writes the most ludicrous stuff)

[devout vault]

Yeah, can’t google much at my job either

[marble jewel]

Like GPT might expose a library/method I'm not familiar with, and I'll use that answer to do more research myself

[sand frost]

I don't use GPT but it's a mix of "too lazy to set up" "paranoid about it lying to me" and "stubborn insistence on doing things myself the hard way"

[marble jewel]

I relate it to the same stigma around using wikipedia to gather your basic facts, but then referring to additional resources for the full details

[sand frost]

For things I am an expert in, I should be reading the literature anyways

[devout vault]

what about when it makes up sources

[safe dragon]

copilot is a blessing when you're dealing with a programming language you aren't yet very experienced in.
It also helps a bit in my experience for languages that have a very bad LSP experience themselves (usually due to dynamic typing) cause copilot tends to have a pretty good idea what to do anyway while the regular LSP has no fuckin idea what's going on cause it doesn't know what type anything is

[marble jewel]

Like, the idea that wikipedia is objectively a bad source is outdated, and I think AI is being treated in a similar vein

[sand frost]

For things I'm not an expert in, I prefer to read the docs and several sources

There's a lot of shitty wikipedia articles

I do use Wikipedia but sometimes I just sort of laugh at how bad the article is

I appreciate how it has a lot of open-license images

[supple ether]

that's not an unreasonable comparison, though I feel that there's a slight difference, in that even if a wikipedia article is full of misinformation, it still has citations, whereas GPT is a black box with unclear references

[marble jewel]

Also, AI being able to read and explain manuals/documentation is a godsend

Like read all this stuff and point me to the relevant bits

To me it's just a time saver, not an end all be all

[safe dragon]

I prefer to just read the documentation myself

[crystal wren]

GPT is the equivalent of dunking a hook into a river. It'll give you stuff to look up, and sometimes that stuff will be an actual real thing that might help!

[sand frost]

yeah, I definitely understand why people use ChatGPT and as long as they're careful about how they use it it doesn't bother me

[supple ether]

something GPT could be useful for is highlighting important information. like changing the color on it or something so it's easier to pick out of the rest of the text

[sand frost]

but I don't personally want it

In part because I read freakishly fast, so that advantage isn't as compelling for me

[supple ether]

lol mood

[safe dragon]

I know quite a few younger folks currently in a comp sci major who are so reliant on chatgpt that I don't think they've ever done an assignment without using it to write the majority of the code