pzwiki_editing

[naive imp]

Neither does broken glass

Yeah I think so. Logo looks the same.

Yeah but that's in Louisville. I'm just talking about the major entirely new towns. Still got some other locations to go through like bright valley trailer park and dark wallow lake etc but all the big stuff is done out west

[languid kayak]

farming 😄

[digital helm]

Being obsolete is effectively being removed. Same as if it was commented. It's removed from the game, but exists in the game files

Troughs I assume?
There's currently only items listed. Troughs etc. would be tiles/furniture which haven't been done yet

Haven't looked into it at all, but i think it's a different system. Which is just concatenated strings. So may be hard to list them all?

[lucid junco]

I honestly don't know why I asked because we had separated business chain locations that are fairly different from the main building/other buildings

Like Fossoil, Fossoil Refinery and Fossoil Field

[lucid junco]

And logo is technically different

[rotund echo]

Is KY Transit a freight or passenger transport company

I guess both, but we only ever see panel van KY Transit vans

I guess cuz the game has no actual buses beyond the minibus

Maybe its the same parent but different subsidiaries?

[naive rock]

Alright, figured out how panic affects guns

is this good enough for me to update the wiki page on panic?

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/136501320340209664/1409034369753939988/panictesting.mp4?ex=68abe904&is=68aa9784&hm=5e77cff625c768b5499516713c190840c5cb9dcf8258d124d4fcba427956747c&

Well, I guess maybe not, since I don't know exactly by how much the hit chance is reduced, since the console doesn't give decimals

I can guestimate 4.5% per level since it seems to alternate between 4 and 5% but dunno for sure

[proud cobalt]

I like that youre standing alone in a closet surrounded by various electronic devices 😆

[rotund echo]

Strangely I think I recall in B41 where the belly button ring also had no 3D model, I thought my game was bugged

[rotund echo]

What do you think of this (hypothetical) naming scheme?

I see a lot in franchise businesses pages they have identical names, you'd get multiple entries all saying "Louisville" kek

What about, for those in the same city, we name them after the nearest major POI?

Oh I also just realized you guys forgot the LV General Fossoil kek

[languid kayak]

Yeah, but I think the actual obsolete code was still removed in b42, right? At least I can't find it

I think a lot of obsolete items were totally removed now; previously they were kept only not to break saves and b42 was a point where it was.

The only difference I guess would be if a mod would want to modify/use the item with that ID.

[languid kayak]

Not sure about other tiles, but these ones you can explicitly fill from inventory.

[languid kayak]

They were made available for tranlslation, so they are there for sure, I think it should be possible to list them in a sane way?

[languid kayak]

I eventually plan on disassembling them but till then they lack a crate 😄 That's how I found it

[languid kayak]

I think that one was fixed in B42? Not 100% sure though

I also wonder, should I link to https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Literature#Writable instead of just https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Literature in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Sheet_of_Paper ?

(and other writables)

I also find it weird these three share icon, I guess it might be omission on TIS side/lack of art done? Models used seem to be different from the icons anyway (though a lot of literature items have models shared)

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Journal
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Empty_Notebook
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Notepad

I think "Empty Notebook" should just be called "Notebook" now.

[languid kayak]

and it is called Notebook

also icons on wiki seems wrong?

models too 😄

notebook and journal use the same one it seems

It's just notepad that's different.

just realized we already noted that in journal too 😄 Let me fix that then

[languid kayak]

@digital helm I moved Sewing Patterns to schematics in https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Literature&diff=prev&oldid=1119769 – seems they were wrongly picked as a book, you may want to update the script for that

It was added in 42.8.0 so the page needs some love too 😄 https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Sewing_Pattern

Not 100% sure, but maybe I'll update it though

They aren't findable currently though, so I guess it's of lesser importance for now

It does have a model though

[languid kayak]

Just checked to make sure, all seem to have 3D models properly now 🙂

but https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Scanner_Module not, even if untextured model is found in game and the item can be found now

We should eventually note them as missing models with {{Bug}} template now that we have it

(did that for https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Scanner_Module and updated the page while at it)

When it comes to razor, the ground model is correct, it's the one wielded by character that's yellow. Pinging @digital helm for that as you uploaded the original one.

I think this should be moved to gallery and a ground model be placed in the infobox? https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Razor_Model.png

I think ground models should be preferred in infoboxes? I think most people will care about decorating their homes at glance, and the model used for combat/action can be put onto the gallery as a general rule of thumb

[languid kayak]

I wonder what the name on the card is… It seems it's "Mr. M."… Kanne"?

Manne, Hanne :D?

I wonder if that's some kind of easter egg, pinging @tulip kiln just in case too 🙂

numbers seem to be random too, not sure if they relate to anything really

[rotund echo]

Anyone? No?

[tulip kiln]

I got no idea who that could be referencing tho

So I'm unsure

[languid kayak]

Might be just generic "Man", so Manne would make sense

[languid kayak]

I looked at it but I have no strong opinion 😄 Best to wait for @naive imp to pop

[languid kayak]

Renamed to simpler https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Known_game_bugs – these don't require wiki attention per se, except maybe properly reporting them to devs and linking the forum post/workarounds if applicable.

Still a category in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Site_maintenance but will not be a part of a table

[languid kayak]

Finished writable items earlier today btw, just added trivia to the cards, I just wonder, should these be added to [[Category:Literature]] as well? Currently they sit only as "Memento" (as that's in-game category), example: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Christmas_Card

We do list them in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Literature#Writable

Pinging @digital helm for that too

Same with these two writable items that are classified as junk:
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/ID_Card_-_Blank
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Index_Card

[languid kayak]

@digital helm I think these 6 items from https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Appearance#Items should be moved to https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Household as a new category.

The three scissors and one razor are classified as household, while Razor is classified as Junk, I assumed it should be a household item, currently it's not listed in the household page at all: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Razor

and Multitool is a "tool", as expected kinda 😄

Anyone here has experience with animals btw? I wonder if these are obtainable.

They seem to do nothing, unlike in Don't Starve when they can be a fuel 😛 https://dontstarve.wiki.gg/wiki/Fur_Tuft

Also another item to flag as debug @digital helm https://pzwiki.net/wiki/DEBUG_DUMMY_ITEM – currently it's in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Junk

[languid kayak]

Added a section to https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Credit_Card_(stolen)#Obtaining – it seems to be able to be looted, is it just outfits, that's why it's not parsed yet @proud cobalt ? Or maybe randomized stories in java?

[languid kayak]

[faalagorn@faalagorn-pc projectzomboid]$ grep -rni IDcard_Stolen
media/lua/shared/Translate/EN/ItemName_EN.txt:4319:    ItemName_Base.IDcard_Stolen = "ID Card",
media/scripts/items/items_literature.txt:3192:    item IDcard_Stolen
[faalagorn@faalagorn-pc projectzomboid]$ grep -rni CreditCard_Stolen
media/lua/server/Items/Distributions.lua:21960:            "CreditCard_Stolen", 100,
media/lua/server/Items/Distributions.lua:21961:            "CreditCard_Stolen", 50,
media/lua/server/Items/Distributions.lua:21962:            "CreditCard_Stolen", 20,
media/lua/server/Items/Distributions.lua:21963:            "CreditCard_Stolen", 20,
media/lua/server/Items/Distribution_BagsAndContainers.lua:165:    "CreditCard_Stolen", 10,
media/lua/server/Items/Distribution_BagsAndContainers.lua:166:    "CreditCard_Stolen", 1,

Seems it's indeed present, unlike the ID card

Shouldn't this be merged? https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Animal_part#Leather https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Material#Leather

Pinging you again for that @digital helm as you did the table, though at that point I assume you'll wake up scared to the amount of pings I made today 😄

[naive imp]

That defeats the whole point of that section. That section is to show what town the business is in. The description shows the proximity of the location with relevance to major landmarks and other things.

That's just not what it's for. If we were to do that, how would readers know what town the poi is in?

Also what if the poi in that section is a chain, and then in that chain section it has the other poi's name that it's next to on there? It basically makes knowing the vague location impossible. I've been trying to clean up instances of that across the wiki, we don't need more of it.

Sorry if that comes off a little harsh I don't mean it that way. But this is exactly the opposite thing that section was made for.

[languid kayak]

I just realized it's the closest POI, that'd be confusing indeed and I think we had that? Also since the POIs are in description already, I guess it'll suffice.

[naive imp]

Exactly. That's not what that section was designed for and all that would do is cause readers confusion. Knowing what town the location is in at a glance is EXTREMELY important. Readers shouldn't have to do digging to find the town. It should be right there. @rotund echo if you have implemented this in any non sandbox pages, could you please revert it? Thanks.

[languid kayak]

I think it was a mockup/question only, not even a sandbox 🙂

[naive imp]

Me too, just confirming. Not accusing anyone of anything.

I know I may have come off a bit strong though I don't want to sound like I'm mad lol

I get very passionate sometimes my bad

[languid kayak]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Water_Dish
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Water_Bottle

These two items get renamed when spawned to Dish and Plastic Bottle respectively

Not sure if there's more items like that, but I guess these should be renamed to Dish and Plastic Bottle then?

[naive imp]

Yeah depending on the fluid it's different. Example: Gasoline (plastic bottle)

Instead of "Bottle of Gasoline" that we had in b41

[languid kayak]

yeah, the items are named after the debug name, although the names aren't really seen in regular gameplay 😩

People looking for "Plastic Bottle" or "Glass Bottle" won't find anything on the wiki directly.

Even more convoluted when it comes to alcohol:

Not sure how best to solve it? Disambig page listing all items spawning with Plastic Bottle/Glass Bottle/whatever container?

We do seem to have pages like https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Bottle_(rare_pop) though

[languid kayak]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Cooking_(item)#Evolved_recipe_bases something's parsed wrong here 🤔

[languid kayak]

I wonder if https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Medical should be moved to `First Aid (item) similar how https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Cooking_(item) and https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Fishing_(item) is?

The name isn't really used anywhere in-game.

[languid kayak]

I guess https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Equipment is obsolete now and will be removed eventually?

[languid kayak]

Okay, I updated all the main categories of https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Item in navbar.

Basically every subpage is now a part of https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Items and the subcategory is defined aftewwards.

There are still some differences in categories and navbar categories though.

I removed all the includes since we don't include them anymore, just not sure how oldids behave, but if we remove https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Equipment then it won't matter that much.

Also made sure the descriptions are for all the subpages, feel free to improve them. See also might need some attention too, as I didn't pay too much attention to it myself. I also removed navboxes since we have navbars for it.

[naive imp]

I think the pages should be created for the fluids themselves, their effects, and what they're used for. There we can also list the containers they spawn in. Thoughts @proud cobalt?

Do we have pages for the bottles yet?

Like just the item not considering the fluid

[languid kayak]

empty bottles no, fluids yes

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Fluid fluids are here

Containers name are there, just no pages: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Fluid_container#Items

[naive imp]

Last I saw the fluids article was really wip and kinda broad. Maybe we should make individual articles for each fluid?

[languid kayak]

keep in mind there are multiple "Glass Bottle"s or "Bottle"s

[naive imp]

Right yeah with different capacity

2L vs 1L etc etc

[languid kayak]

It's something I didn't like in B41 yet it carried to B42 😄

I hate them being grouped

[naive imp]

Maybe splitting fluids would take a lot of work though. Maybe split into a type? Like a page for alcohol, page for soda, page for water (tainted vs not) etc

And then list the different types on that page? Less overall pages to maintain

[languid kayak]

there are pages for fluids though

[naive imp]

Individual ones? I thought we just had the one "fluids" page

[languid kayak]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Alcohol_(fluid)
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Vodka_(fluid)
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Water_(fluid)
etc.

[naive imp]

Ah

[languid kayak]

seems the icons are being pushed to preview btw @digital helm 😄

[naive imp]

So in a way already done-ish. Just gotta manual verify

I can see this being something that is in limbo for a while

We need more editors 😐

[flat sun]

what needs to be verified?

[naive imp]

Well the article was autogenerated. Just gotta make sure everything checks out and flesh it out so it looks like an actual article and not regurgitated computerese

At least thats how I understand it

[languid kayak]

Albion looking for work 😄 There are still some things in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Articles_requiring_verification a lot of low-hanging fruit of verifying values since time-scale changed by default for apocalypse, but that all requires actual editors to do the work and we lack those 😄

I remember slapping verify to light sources, e.g., https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Improvised_Electric_Lantern#Light_source to verify if that's in-game time, I think it is? NobleArgon was supposed to check too, but it fell behind it seems.

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Helicopter#Overview is another time-related too

[flat sun]

i'll verify, but anything that scales with game time should take exactly as long as it did in game time as it did before - codewise nothing has really changed

the actual game time adjustment formula has actually always treated 30 minute days as the default so there shouldn't be weird side effects of the default changing, since the in-game options 'default' is not really treated as the default in the calculations

on https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Starting_location i've verified that 'Any other occupation behaves as “Custom Occupation” for the purpose of determining starting location.' but i would maybe recommend reconsidering presenting it this way, i think it's a little confusing - i would just refer to it as 'default spawn points'

the spawn points belonging to custom occupation is more a detail of how they chose to implement that

[naive imp]

<@&1205656323904118885> (and others) do you guys think protecting Template:Building multi location to administrators user group is ok? It's a highly visible template just like the infoboxes. I was gonna go ahead and do it for peace of mind but I wanted consensus and confirmation before proceeding

I was also thinking autoconfirmed but they don't really need to edit it either, more to protect against vandalism

[proud cobalt]

If you can tell me how it's lootable i can find out why

[proud cobalt]

Ok will look into this

On my todo high prio

[proud cobalt]

I think these are fine as two tables, they serve different purposes

[proud cobalt]

Yeah i didn't want to remove them yet until B42 goes stable, but i thought i marked them all

[proud cobalt]

We have fluid pages e.g.
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Cow's_Milk_(fluid)
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Cranberry_Juice_(fluid)

Someone just has to atually fill them out

[proud cobalt]

Ahh Faal linked them too 😄

[proud cobalt]

Not sure it needs it, used on less than 200 pages. E.g. Infobox location is used on 750 pages, infobox item is used on 5,000 pages

[naive imp]

This is why I asked. However when you look at the actual content in there its quite integral to the display of a lof of locations

So there's that but again not sure if I should just based off visibility alone

[rotund echo]

I didn't even save the edits.... -_-

[proud cobalt]

I think it's ok for now, unless some actual vandalism happens. It's quite a niche attack vector and if i see a template being edited by an unfamiliar name i always check what they've changed (Too many cases of templates being broken even for good faith edits 😄)

[naive rock]

double checking this

[rotund echo]

How does a simple question turn into "we must protect this template to admin-only because it will be vandalized"...

[rotund echo]

Guys, I have Fishing 7 in the game

I know how to play the Build 42 Fishing, so I can add content/guides, but I don't know shit about stats

[languid kayak]

-- Hidden stash of stolen goods.
    HollowBook_Valuables = {
        rolls = 1,
        items = {
            -- Money
            "Money", 100,
            "Money", 100,
            "Money", 100,
            "Money", 100,
            "Money", 100,
            "Money", 100,
            -- Stolen Goods
            "CreditCard_Stolen", 100,
            "CreditCard_Stolen", 50,
            "CreditCard_Stolen", 20,
            "CreditCard_Stolen", 20,
            "Diamond", 1,
            "Emerald", 1,
            "GemBag", 1,
            "IDcard_Blank", 1,
            "Ruby", 1,
            "Sapphire", 1,
            "StockCertificate", 20,
            "StockCertificate", 10,
            -- Misc.
            "Flask", 10,
            "PillsVitamins", 10,
            "PokerChips", 10,
            "Revolver_Short", 10,
        },
        junk = {
            rolls = 1,
            items = {
                
            }
        }
    },

[rotund echo]

Obviously this will need to be revised further, but before saving this edit on the wiki, I'll just save it on my notepad while I wait for your greenlight

[languid kayak]

you can also use /sandbox if you wish to save it without interrupting the work

[flint vapor]

Just edit in VSCode that way you have your sandbox locally 😄

[languid kayak]

Also, as far as skills goes, these pages needs lots of love 😄

I ended up spending most time with item pages this weekend

[naive imp]

A lot of high use template are like that for the same reason. I thought the template was transcluded on more pages than it actually was

*transcluded

Damn phone

[rotund echo]

Yes, since I have Fishing 7 in the game right now, I can add contents and how-to's

But I can't help with stats, datamining, or making statistic tables

[proud cobalt]

This channel is for the discussion of wiki editing

[languid kayak]

I fixed the links to Installing/Using mods following Doggy's merge, the only two left are
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Installing_mods/ru and https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Using_mods/ru

Not sure I should slap a merge notice or merge them as is? They seem to be outdated too.

These two are used only on these pages as well:
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:ModMenuExample.png
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:SteamWorkshopModsExample.png

[flint vapor]

I guess yea

[languid kayak]

How is it with Page version now? Do we support translation for it or not? https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Page_version/zh-hant

[languid kayak]

@quartz bear can you check how much a generator can hold and if it varies between generator in B42? Seems we don't have a clear info on https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Generator page. It says either contradicting values, or somehing's off with how I get it/it works.

I basically filled a gas can (10 L) and that gave me 100% fuel on the premium generator.

The wiki says

The tank of a generator can take up to 1¼ gas can's fuel
So that'd be 12.5 liters, and below it says
A generator filled with one full gas can of fuel (8 out of 10 units of fuel) would give a fuel volume of 80%.
And math would be accurate, as one gas is 10/12.5 = 80%

Though it doesn't match with what I see in-game as of B42 🤔
Can test more in debug too I guess

[quartz bear]

not a great timing because I gotta go to another city in 2 hours but I'll check rn

first things first: updating pz 🥴

[languid kayak]

no rush 😄

[quartz bear]

maximum generator fuel is 100 for every generator but I have trouble figuring out the capacity for gas cans

the itemfiles say "10.0"

but fuck do I know what that means

[flat sun]

fluidcontainer capacity is in litres

i wouldn't say generators are necessarily using the same units as they're a legacy system but they did see work in b42

[quartz bear]

if I am seeing this right, 0.1 fluid in gas can = 1 fuel in generator

but then 1 gas can would be exactly 1 generator??

@languid kayak what do you observe

oh wait

im blind

yeah 1 gas can = 1 generator in b42

that's what code tells me

ISAddFuel.lua L54,
IsoGenerator#MaximumGeneratorFuel,
items_gas.txt L21

feel free to look out on potential changes based on those locations

[languid kayak]

yeah, surprised they didn't really. Maybe they will eventually

[languid kayak]

I wonder if the formulas are accurate in B42 then

1 gas can = 10 liters now, and 100% generators used to hold 12.5 liters before

[flat sun]

i think gas cans could carry 8 units in b41, so they just didn't change anything about generators at all 😅

1 and a quarter gas cans back then would've also been 10 units

[quartz bear]

yeah the point here is that we can't actually measure about anything in PZ

precise metrics are nowhere to be seen

other than source code

which not everyone is willing to look into

[flat sun]

well fluids are explicitly litres in ui now

[quartz bear]

now

[languid kayak]

This math is weird too:
Example: A popsicle fridge (0.16 L/h), television (0.03 L/h), and 6 lamps (0.012 L/h), would equal a total fuel consumption of 0.202 L/h. A generator filled with one full gas can of fuel (8 out of 10 units of fuel) would give a fuel volume of 80%.

80 / (0.202 L/h) = Approximately 396 in-game hours, or 16.5 in-game days

Fuel volume?

If it holds 10 liters (now) and uses 0.202 liters per (in-game) hour, then it'd last ≈49.5 h, not 396 hours…

[quartz bear]

i dont get it

whoever wrote that expressed percentages as liters

but a generator doesnt store 100 liters

it stores 10 liters

[flat sun]

those values don't even add up to 0.202

[languid kayak]

good point 😄

0.262

Also, The baseline fuel consumption of a generator running with no load placed on it is 0.02 L/h. so shouldn't it be + 0.02 more?

[flat sun]

i do vaguely remember there being something strange about like, multiple devices of the same kind connected to the same generator using less (or maybe more? 😨) power

but there's no mention of that on the wiki (and maybe i'm confusing it with something else entirely) so i don't think they've accounted for that

[languid kayak]

oh wait, it's actually 0.202, as one light is 0.002 so it's 0.012 for all of them

I wonder how useful the example even is, it should be basic math pretty much

even more if the generator is round 10 liters now (assuming it still is code-wise)

% Fuel remaining / power demand = Runtime in the in-game hours

Fuel remaining as a percentage.
Power demand in L/h.
Runtime is measured in the in-game hours.

This formula is probably wrong too, as it's % of 10-liters now

[naive imp]

Agreed with @languid kayak . If you know about any more skills do not hesitate to add information. Also, so long as you structure the edit well and the page looks overall cohesive, there is no harm in adding additional information. The pages will probably need a rework later but more information is always good

Just make sure you structure it well and the article makes sense still and whatnot

[rotund echo]

I updated Fishing for Build 42

I trimmed a lot of parts and it still definitely needs a lot of work though

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Fishing

[proud cobalt]

(% of fuel remaining / 10) / (power demand + 0.02) = Runtime in the in-game hours

Hmm but that's not right

This is after 48 hours

So it must be the original 450 hours

[proud cobalt]

So this cant be right

I just tested in game and got 450 hours at 0.222

So it's % of fuel remaining / power demand = Runtime

[flat sun]

so the units for power demand are off then? since 10% fuel is 1 litre but this would be treating it as 10

this ui is far older than literally anything else in the game being measured in litres so it's not shocking or anything

[proud cobalt]

I didn't follow the entire conversation, but i can confirm the calculation is correct tested in game 100 / 0.222 = 450.45 hours

So it's treating 10L as 100L yeah i get what youre saying

It should really be 0.0222L/h

[proud cobalt]

No @digital helm
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Page_version#How_to_translate

[proud cobalt]

I've reported the inconsistency, either need to change the UI units to %/h or divide theL/h value by 10

[languid kayak]

I think it's best to replace https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:PZ_Generator_Info.JPG with this screen 😄 It seems they added spaces after number and liter too.

Also thanks for updating the page, I'll add {{Bug}} later so people know that there the formula is confusing

[languid kayak]

Added that to the generator page along with BugBox, feel free to reword if something isn't clear/easy to undestanda/explicit, as I wanted to avoid the extra long description of a bugbox 😄

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Generator#Consumption

[proud cobalt]

Sounds good

[languid kayak]

Evansville is quite far https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Louisville,+KY,+USA/Evansville,+IN,+USA/@38.0932096,-86.9680942,144071m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x88690b1ab35bd511:0xd4d3b4282071fd32!2m2!1d-85.7663724!2d38.2468618!1m5!1m1!1s0x8871d5133156772d:0xb52e4939112ac99d!2m2!1d-87.5710898!2d37.9715592!3e2?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDgyNC4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

[rotund echo]

Is the Antique Oven still exists in loot tables?

Well, they call it Old Stove now, but still the same thing

[languid kayak]

I think it does, but I think we don't have the movables updated yet

[rotund echo]

Ok, I used to sometimes find it in warehouses

But either I'm not paying attention when I am looting warehouse, or it really has been removed

[naive imp]

It spawns in more places now also I believe

like as a tile

but im not 100% on that tho

[rotund echo]

Man, I kinda want an antique oven at base, but I don't know where in LV it spawns as a tile kek

[languid kayak]

it can't be moved up straight though

[rotund echo]

"moved up straight"?

As in, using the pick up tool to move it around?

[languid kayak]

I think it requries carpentry now? May be mistaken though

And it's still in distrubitons:

[faalagorn@faalagorn-pc ProjectZomboid]$ grep -rni AntiqueStove
projectzomboid/media/scripts/moveables/moveables_cooking.txt:3:    item Mov_AntiqueStove
projectzomboid/media/scripts/newitems.txt:5:    item Mov_AntiqueStove
projectzomboid/media/lua/server/Items/Distributions.lua:9440:                {name="CrateAntiqueStove", min=0, max=1, weightChance=5},
projectzomboid/media/lua/server/Items/Distributions.lua:15654:                {name="CrateAntiqueStove", min=0, max=1, weightChance=5},
projectzomboid/media/lua/server/Items/Distributions.lua:16303:                {name="CrateAntiqueStove", min=0, max=1, weightChance=1},
projectzomboid/media/lua/server/Items/Distributions.lua:17474:                {name="CrateAntiqueStove", min=0, max=1, weightChance=5},
projectzomboid/media/lua/server/Items/ProceduralDistributions.lua:12388:    CrateAntiqueStove = {
projectzomboid/media/lua/server/Items/ProceduralDistributions.lua:12391:            "Mov_AntiqueStove", 200,

[rotund echo]

...loot distributions?

[proud cobalt]

I've added it to the page. I'm not home so can't verify the effective chance, it's possible they are actually that high but only a few locations match those specific room/container duos

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Old_Stove#Loot

[rotund echo]

120% nah dude that should be like, guaranteed xD

[languid kayak]

Sometimes it's like that 😄

btw @proud cobalt I think food will still need a bigger revamp, but what was that edit about? Did model change in B42? https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Watermelon_Slice&direction=next&oldid=911809

or is the model dimension/zoom/orientation wrong?

It's 640 × 400 so not up-for-style guide's square size, though can be cropped

[proud cobalt]

I just replaced the comment with an Mbox. No idea about the model
https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Watermelon_Slice&diff=prev&oldid=912363

Someone else's comment

[languid kayak]

ah, I see it. Can check and remove them then, maybe I will later

[languid kayak]

oh, that's a nice easter egg kind of 😄

[languid kayak]

That's the name of the Studio in Studio map? Pinging @tulip kiln

[tulip kiln]

No idea for sure if that's the studio map or not. But at the very least that's a reference to MGM

[languid kayak]

@proud cobalt I guess it's a solid reason to update https://b42map.com/ to 42.11.0 😄 https://youtu.be/n9Lq90Eq3mY?feature=shared

[tulip kiln]

Lmao more cult stuff

[serene sage]

dang the whole world's gonna be mapped out in PZ

maybe even before NPCs

[flat sun]

npcs have been delayed because they're also mapping out every person

[serene sage]

if Project Zomboid is to truly be a realistic sandbox survival sim, TIS needs to work on adding simulated biomolecular interactions on the atomic scale

I hate how my character can fight off a cold without any degree of antibodies production and immune response pathways

[proud cobalt]

Probably too late now maybe for .12

[proud cobalt]

These are container contents, that's why they don't show up in loot tables. Working on adding them

Currently we show what the container can have in it on those pages, but not the other way around

[proud cobalt]

More big changes still coming for firearms

But I like the idea of continuing to unify code ^ @digital helm

[languid kayak]

Mentioned Puppers Easter Eggs too @tulip kiln, feel free to adjust wondering if you want: https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Easter_eggs&diff=prev&oldid=1120625

[quartz bear]

Me when someone located Syktyvkar in the USA:

[proud cobalt]

This should now be fixed and live on the wiki. E.g.
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Diamond#Loot
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Credit_Card_(stolen)#Loot

[languid kayak]

hm, I got impression that https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Amethyst_Raw.png is unused, but I see it in code of https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Crystal and https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Large_Crystal ? They both also lack loot information (let me just boot the game and see debug fo that. Pinging @proud cobalt too

yup, seems the icon is used there

@digital helm is IconsFortexture only parsed for clothing? Or any other reason it wasn't parsed for this one?

[serene sage]

is this worthy enough for the wiki?

yippee

[languid kayak]

oh, I think is that it has both Icon and IconsFortexture?

[serene sage]

just uploaded after shortening the gif a bit with a new file name

sadly I don't think the original name crash_smack_bonk.gif would fly

[languid kayak]

you can definitely keep the original files too, in case if we finally switch to somethng better than gif eventually

[naive imp]

@languid kayak I'm curious why this page was created? It's an unnamed location and hardly has any information on it, and it's already documented in the general "church" page? Policy is to limit unnamed locations wherever possible
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Fallas_Lake_Church

There's still plenty of unnamed locations to go through pre b42 but I'm trying to sort of consolidate them so they're easier to maintain

[flat sun]

it is a named location, it's just a really boring name 😅 it's on a flyer

[naive imp]

But there's no sign or anything, just a flyer. Plus the information gained by having it in a seperate page is pretty much negligible. Everything that was on there is already on the general page

[flat sun]

yeah i don't really disagree with any of that

[naive imp]

It's not like Mall locations where you can have an argument for their inclusion since all of them are chains for the most part

Then you can put them in chain article

But stuff like this is just kinda wasteful imo

I think these flyer but no sign locations should be evaluated on a case by case basis

@languid kayak ok to remove? I'll stick {{deprecated}} on it for now, just want consensus

Now begins the long and arduous task of adding all the locations in the b42 towns to the navbox

This is probably gonna take several days lol

Oh boy

This is more complicated than I thought. Should have it though

I'll make sure nothing breaks

[proud cobalt]

Fixed, will be in the next update

[languid kayak]

Flier?

yeah 😄

[languid kayak]

I don't mind either way, may be something to potentially discuss on the review month too, which is starting on Monday

[naive imp]

Ok is late 0411 bur tomorrow morning will wack it

And also finish adding new locations to navbox. Shit was a bit more technical than I anticipated but eh I got this

[languid kayak]

Should help with navigation yeah 😄 You didn't got into issues with navbox being too big, right?

I think it was the case for item navbox, not sure we came up with specific solution, but will probably have to just be split

[naive imp]

That's my primary concern. However, we already have a lot of businesses in there and it's not super unwieldy as of yet.

The collapsible elements really help with that

But I will definitely add more rows and shift stuff around as a result of adding new stuff

I'm gonna have to do it again when all these locations are done though, that's gonna suck

So far so good tho

[languid kayak]

Huh, I just noticed that https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:User_language links to wrong pages, it uses regional language name and adds _language to it, resulting in link such as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polski_language or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/中文（繁體）_language

@digital helm for that

@serene sage thoughts? https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category_talk:Survivors

Roudrick is pretty active recently too

[languid kayak]

@proud cobalt the building for Butcher Hook added in 42.11.0 is missing in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Large_Hook; does it need to be added manually?

[proud cobalt]

Yes i've added the building section

[languid kayak]

@digital helm should we rename them to singular btw?
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Locations
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Game_modes
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Mods

It would make sense for location at at least, the only main category from the main page that's plural now

[languid kayak]

Hm, not only the page is not yet updated to 42 proper, it seems the code is from 42.8.0? https://pzwiki.net/wiki/M16_Assault_Rifle#Code Pinging @proud cobalt for that

[proud cobalt]

No guns have been updated to 42

Idk about the code will have to look at that

[languid kayak]

https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=USR&curid=129633&diff=1119305&oldid=1060157 this one's interesting. I think you were the last one to update the media parser @proud cobalt? Maybe that's why the line wasn't picked? Not sure if that's a bug to be fixed by the game?

[proud cobalt]

I don't really know anything about the media parser that was @digital helm I just put the results up

It would be very on brand of TIS to include something like duplicated unique line Ids

[languid kayak]

This too: https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Life_and_Living_TV&curid=12748&diff=1119307&oldid=1116047

@serene sage are we sure this is called "Kristy Kormick (zone story)" (Kristy, not Kirsty?) Is it a typo in-game?

[serene sage]

hmmm might be a typo let me check

[serene sage]

I think it's alright, considering there are "survivors" in that category who appear less frequently than the KPATV survivors

gonna reply to the talk page now

[serene sage]

@languid kayak it's a typo on my part (as always)

gonna fix it now

[languid kayak]

btw, I am positivily surprised how many new random edits lore pages get, will make at least for a better summary 😄

I think visual editor helps with entry level, especially as a lot of folks are into lore it seems.

[flint vapor]

Nice that's good to know !

The source code edits do kind of push a lot of people to not make any changes

[languid kayak]

BTW, did some cleanups to the light sources, thanks for @flat sun for verifying them once for good 🙂

Also, not sure how the math is exactly performed, but can you check what is the actual value for penlight and flashlight/regular angle headed flashlight? (use deltas of 0.001 of 0.006 respectively), as while others are rounded to 1/100th and these are rounded to a whole hours and 1/10th respectively.

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Improvised_Electric_Lantern
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Flashlight_-_Improvised
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Flashlight_-_Heavy_Duty
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Flashlight
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Flashlight_-_Angle_Headed
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Flashlight_-_Angle_Headed_(army)
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Penlight

Mostly cleaned up the usage section to be concise and consistent across these pages, as well as updating summaries and see alsos, as well as adding variants to angle-headed ones (the army-colored one is more energy-efficient than the regular one).

I believe there are no copypasta errors now, but if you spot any, feel free to fix 🙂

And if any of you think some wording is to be changed, it's best to update them in all those pages at once, for it to be consistent.

Won't do it straight away, but I will probably update the lanterns and other light sources from https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Light_source#Light_source eventually too (starting with propane lantern)

[languid kayak]

@flint vapor shouldn't it be navbox modding there? https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Mod_data#Navigation

Or if not then this page should be added to https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Navbox_Java_objects and removed from https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Navbox_modding

Also, https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Java_object#Java_objects lists it as ModData (no space, uppercase D)

assuming it's the same thing?

but might be judging by modData in the code, then I guess it'd be {{Title|modData}} for the page? Or is "Mod data" better name for it still?

[flint vapor]

Yea it was the old navbox

The page moved from being about a java object to being a general concept

I'll change it

[flint vapor]

Changed it too

[languid kayak]

So the page for ModData is not planned, right? If so, gotta remove it from navbox too https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/ModData

[flint vapor]

Nop, that page existed before

[languid kayak]

Also I wonder, should it be {{Title|itemVisual}} and {{Title|itemVisuals}} respectively? https://pzwiki.net/wiki/ItemVisual https://pzwiki.net/wiki/ItemVisuals

[flint vapor]

But it's now a general page about Mod data for both global and per object data

[flint vapor]

Nop

The java object starts uppercase

[languid kayak]

ah the Java naming standards 🙃 Probably had some from it back on Uni, but can't remember anything.

I assume examples starting with lowercase are okay still too?
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/ItemVisual#Accessing_ItemVisuals

[flint vapor]

Examples are in lowercase because they are instances

It's just a simple naming standard to make the difference between just a simple variable name and the actual JavaObject itself which is ItemVisuals

[flat sun]

to be pedantic, classes are not objects, instances are objects

so the 'java object' here *is* itemVisuals

[naive imp]

Navbox locations has been updated

Got all the new businesses in the new b42 towns in there

Just gotta go over old towns now and see what was added/reworked

[naive imp]

It does look far more complicated than it actually is. I will always prefer source editing tho. Visual is definitely good for beginners to learn but is clunky

[flint vapor]

Same

[serene sage]

for me I always lose sight of my cursor and I also generally just confuse visual editing and regular read mode a lot

I've now disabled it lmao

[languid kayak]

@proud cobalt seems the template include size hits soon with knives 😩 https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Hunting_Knife&oldid=1121031#Loot

Maybe the Crafting recipe table should indeed be supressed for the time being 🤔

[naive imp]

God this church page is a fucking MESS

Ugh

I got this

Also wow the logos in a lot of these churches suck

@lucid junco may need your expertise on this one

[serene sage]

geez that is a huge recipe table

[proud cobalt]

I suppose we could define specific tool tags not to add. E.g. if the recipe is added because of SharpKnife (tag) then skip it. But that really sucks tbh

[proud cobalt]

It is, but what's the trade off between size and accuracy 🫤

[lucid junco]

https://tenor.com/view/call-phone-yakuza-yakuza0-kiryu-gif-25676879

what logo do you need

[digital helm]

This just looks like a line got added at some point

[digital helm]

Same with this, but a line got removed

[digital helm]

Sorry for the delay, but I don't have any issue protecting it. There shouldn't be any need for someone to edit it imo

[languid kayak]

Might be the best case indeed, that way we don't have to comment the whole recipe table, in case it's used in something else

Or maybe instead of transcluding it on page, we can link to a separate page listing only the SharpKnife recipes?

We could have best of both words witht his

[rotund echo]

Louisville P.D. has missing roomdefs in b42map.com

so I went ahead and slaughtered the place by myself in-game

I think I can update its pzwiki.net article now for Build 42

[proud cobalt]

Thoughts? <@&1205656323904118885> <@&1205891296565268520>
Not including recipes for specific tags when used as tools. E.g all recipes that require a sharp knife being listed on every item with the sharp knife tag.

[rotund echo]

Should the recipe table be moved to the page of the tag?

[proud cobalt]

That would likely also be too long

For the include size

[rotund echo]

So where would we put it?

[proud cobalt]

But I like that idea in general for the tag pages @digital helm

[rotund echo]

Maybe in say, the usage section of Hunting Knife page

"This item is a sharp knife and will be accepted for many carving and butchering recipes"

[calm temple]

ultimately i think it would make the wiki less useful for the people actually using it. if you are looking at the page for the stone knife, odds are you want to be able to see all recipes its used in without having to go to another page, or cross check a recipes page for a tag, with whatever tags the tool your checking has.

[cedar yoke]

i feel that the general kind of catch-all tags are usually not the thing you're looking at a recipe for, they serve as kind of an accessory

if there was a seperate page for general tags like sharp knife, i feel it could work

[proud cobalt]

For context, this is what a page looks like when it reaches the include limit. Everything beyond it becomes useless (obtaining etc.)
https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Hunting_Knife&oldid=1121031#Loot

[proud cobalt]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/SharpKnife_(tag)

[cedar yoke]

for example, if i want to know what specific recipes a hammer might be used in, i don't need to see that it can be repaired with every combination/type of epoxy and tape

[calm temple]

ahhh. yeah thats....not ideal. at all....

[cedar yoke]

even though it has the repairwithtape and repairwithepoxy tags

[proud cobalt]

Yeah quite difficult to navigate as it's a technical limitation

[digital helm]

I like this idea too. Should be simple enough to do. So long as we don't also have this issue there

[keen patio]

Would it help to separate it into two tables? One where it is a material and another where it is a tool? Total data would be the same, but each table would be smaller, right?

[proud cobalt]

No the include size would be the same

Actually it would be slightly larger due to the overhead of two tables

[keen patio]

Is it the data loaded that is the issue, rather than the legibility for the user? I think I'm attacking this from the wrong angle 🙂

[digital helm]

The idea may also help a bit with navigation, even if it doesn't fix the issue discussed here

[proud cobalt]

Legibility is also a concern but yes Its mostly a technical limitation

It's the amount of recipes that it has to load

[keen patio]

Pagination of data then? That's what we usually do with massive data tables...

I don't know the infrastructure used for the wiki, but I assume it's something like PHP, perhaps with some barebones javascript in there. Either can be used to paginate results, though the latter is probably best unless you want users to reload all assets every time they want to load more results 🙂

Oh, I see Vue is loaded. That's excellent for dynamically presenting paginated data!

[languid kayak]

would it really be though? Can test I guess?

[languid kayak]

seems nice idea IMO

[proud cobalt]

We don't really have that kind of access on the wiki. Only what we can do directly in MediaWiki the software that runs the wiki itself. We only load what we have to through a lua module which was our solution to the same problem 12 months ago. The game scope has just grown much larger.

[proud cobalt]

Maybe not actually 🤔

[keen patio]

Ok, I gotta go research hte MediaWiki framework for a bit before I can make more suggestions then. I'll see what I can dig up, if anything.

[languid kayak]

seems like a bug for me "same" cup, two different capacities 😄

while the 500 ml lacks the tooltip, both can catch rain outside though

[proud cobalt]

Seems like an item that should have been removed with B42 to me

[languid kayak]

Yeah, the 500 ml one seems not to spawn too

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Fountain_Cup and https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Fountain_Cup_of_Water

will note that as a bug

[keen patio]

Ok, table pagination should totally be possible in MediaWiki, considering their official site does it for tables with 200+ entries.

[languid kayak]

and obsolete (which I pressume it is)

[proud cobalt]

Not sure what this means or how we can implement it. Here's some more info on the issue

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Post-expand_include_size#:~:text=The post-expand include size,KiB as determined by %24wgMaxArticleSize .

[keen patio]

Yeh, that's the size you're trying to decrease, right? It's currently over 2kb with all the crafting stuff we're getting, so we want to reduce the table so that it doesn't have as much text in it, right?

[languid kayak]

(seems to be temporary item)

[faalagorn@faalagorn-pc ProjectZomboid]$ grep -rni FountainCupWater
projectzomboid/media/lua/shared/Translate/EN/ItemName_EN.txt:2803:    ItemName_Base.FountainCupWater = "Fountain Cup of Water",
projectzomboid/media/scripts/TEMPORARY_TESTING_new_items/TEMPORARY_items_fluidcontainers.txt:228:    item FountainCupWater

[keen patio]

Ok, after reading up on this for about an hour now, I'm wondering if the solution to the massive tables would be to just not use tables? Even the MediaWiki docs say tables are best to avoid, for several reasons.
Could it possibly be changed to a list of all end products of those recipes instead, and have the individual recipies listed in the Obtaining > Crafting section of each product's page?

It could look something like this (obviously better styled, but you get the idea)
That reduced the content text size by about 60%. Could be optimized a bit further by giving each output its own line and removing the overarching recipe name (like having 5 rows for Assemble Long Implement instead of one row with that three-word title) and removing the x1, x2 etc. at the end.

Cleaned up version, for better visualisation

[proud cobalt]

Yeah... That wouldn't tell the user how to make the item though or the requirements for that recipe

[keen patio]

That's what the recipe on the item's own page would be for

[proud cobalt]

Removing that much it might as well stay as a table, it wouldn't have any include size issues if most of it was removed

[proud cobalt]

Hmm OK I see what you're saying. I don't love it personally but it is a solution to consider

[keen patio]

It would basically just be a list of the items you CAN make with this item, but the output item itself would have its own recipe on its own page. Compartmentalisation. It's nice to have it connected both ways, but if it becomes a problem like that, it is at least a solution.

And that could be divided further by having one list for "crafting using this item as a tool" and "crafting using this item as a material" (but with phrasing made by someone who isn't autistic with English as a second language 😄 )

[proud cobalt]

It is a solution, and one nobody has suggested yet at that so constructive. More click through concerns me, having half a page missing concerns me more though

Could also be limited to just the items with this issue too. Though that raises intuitivity concerns

[keen patio]

Yeah, deffo keep a convention that is applied to all pages, otherwise it will be very hard to use the site.

[rotund echo]

I edited the Louisville PD page

I will come back and edit it more later

[keen patio]

Third solution I can think of would be to have a recipe template page, that can take in either a material, tool or output item as a parameter and display all recipes. Users would have to go to a separate page for all recipes, but it would save the item page from overflow.
Fourth solution would be to have it the same as now, but limit it to something like top 10 items, with a link to the recipe page from suggestion #3.
A few ideas floating about, but I'm not sure how much you can do with that infrastructure and your current knowledge.

[proud cobalt]

Not really feasible with our tools afaik

At least a central dynamic page. It would require a premade page for every existing page

[keen patio]

I see. I'm not sure I can give the best solution, but it would help if I knew a little more about the infrastructure. The data in those tables, is that stored in a database, or is it pulled "live" from the LUA files on each page load? Or is it stored in some other way? Just trying to get an idea of how much can be done with the built-in functionality...

[keen patio]

Ok, did a bit more work on that list option (solution 2). If we remove all the "x1" and "x2" bits, and all duplicate entries, the list version displays 6 171 characters (roughly 9kb). The existing table version has 72 228 characters displayed (roughly 105kb).

That's not including images, btw, not sure if those count towards that text size limit.

[languid kayak]

@lucid junco I think technically you can play with more frineds, it's just two devices, so 2+2 or 3+1 in front of one device is possible? https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Steam&curid=10425&diff=1121143&oldid=1103171

[lucid junco]

Honestly have no idea

I know that remote play supports up to 3+1 players

And that zomboid supports 2 player split screen

[rotund echo]

This is place is named South Park now because I said so

[languid kayak]

4?

[languid kayak]

It's South Park, because it's a Park and it's South 👌

[rotund echo]

Wait what, Ekron doesn't have a PD?

Even South Park gets its own PD, why doesn't Ekron have one?

[lucid junco]

One player - host
Three extra - remote play

[proud cobalt]

Reality is probably for balance reasons

But that's a guess

[lucid junco]

They could have added a shitty pd

Like that in Riverside

[proud cobalt]

Something fallas lake coded

[lucid junco]

Riverside is worse i think

[proud cobalt]

Riverside PD has a police storage room at least

Oh so does fallas lake

[rotund echo]

Then again most of the old map cities don't have an FD lmao

Also, btw, does anyone know how does multi-storey indoor spawn mechanics work? Based on what I learned it seems the game only loads zeds in the floor immediately above you, not the entire building at once

[rotund echo]

So guys, I overhauled Louisville PD

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Louisville_Police_Department_and_Detention_Services

[naive imp]

Sounds like a good idea to me. "This item is used in the following recipes as a SharpKnife": list list list

[naive imp]

Most if not all of the ones that need logos have {{reupload}} or {{improve}}

Can access all of them via site maintenance

[naive imp]

Nope

[naive imp]

I think this is the best solution, followed by a little note that says "Click to view the whole recipe". We can't really fix the issue without click through, and this is the simplest solution. I don't think we should overcomplicate this

You know me, I'm all about "keep it simple stupid"

[flat sun]

not sure if someone has suggested this yet, but i would keep it as it is, except have tags that have a sufficient number of items and recipes split off those recipes into another page: it's not really that critical imo to have every single little thing you can use a knife to cut or sharpen on the main page of every knife

when i look at the crafting section i want to know what i need this item to craft, or how to craft it - but chances are if i'm able to craft, i have some kind of knife anyway and i'm not really concerned about that part 😅

[languid kayak]

Yeah, this seems to be currently the best idea, and tags were a candidate for that

[keen patio]

I think most people who look up the recipes look for "what can I use this item for", so it feels kinda like a big deal to not include every little thing you can cut up with the sharpknife(tag). Hence my suggestion to link to each outcome item's "obtaining recipe" instead of listing all the recipes. That way the user gets to see everything that tool can be used for, without every tool's page being completely swarmed with recipes.

But if there's a way to consolidate similar recipes, so we have like one single recipe for "make spear" instead of the 15 or so current recipes, that would surely save a lot of work too.

It feels like that could be taggable, to be honest. "SpearHead" tag on each item that can be a spear head instead of using each by name for the recipes would probably save a lot of grief.

[languid kayak]

BTW, I've decided to split https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Shin_Guard since https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Spiked_Shin_Guard was split before. I was just unsure of TINT variant, but we can merge them back eventually. We were missing redirects for IDs so I made them @proud cobalt I wonder how many IDs are without redirect still? Should be possible to check, not sure I'll be up for this myself, but is simple enough as checking links to Item ID without the Base part to check, but would be nice to see where the redirects lead too (simple bot work).

There are some distribution tables missing in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Articles_with_improper_loot_usage but all should be possible to be found.

Also pinging @digital helm as dictionary for https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Item_list might need updates (unless it will be updated automatically).

[languid kayak]

@proud cobalt for https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Business_Card the script says that the burning time is 0.8 minutes but the existing page says it's 0.75 minutes, is it the rounding issue? I'd prefer it to be 0.75 if it's more accurate:

https://github.com/Vaileasys/pz-wiki_parser/ :

===Fuel===
A business card can be used as fuel in a [[Heat source|fire]] burning for 0.8 minutes.

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Business_Card :

==Usage==
A business card can be used as [[fuel]] or kindling to light a [[Heat source|fire]], providing 0.75 minutes of burn time.

infobox says 0.8 though |burn_time=0.8 minutes

[languid kayak]

a lot of these IDs are missing too

@digital helm I think we should rename https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Tile_list to Furniture list? We kinda moved away from "Tiles" when it comes to movables, as we don't really cover all tiles now

[digital helm]

We haven't really settled on the scope of this page.
Moveable_list may be the more technically correct?
This is a technical page so doesn't necessarily need to match the fuzzy names we use

[digital helm]

Something to check in-game. From memory I made it as it's displayed in-game

[languid kayak]

should these be merged? https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Articulated_Metal_Shoulder_Armor_-_Left https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Articulated_Metal_Shoulder_Armor_-_Right ?

[languid kayak]

I also started updating some https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Item_list#Protective_Gear – ensuring L and R are both on the page and left (L) is the first one

@proud cobalt if you could replace all the right distributions with the left it would be nice too 😄

[naive imp]

Went ahead and threw {{merge}} on all the pages that should be incorporated into general location pages. Hopefully it encourages someone to do them

[digital helm]

Yes and no, lol. Yes because they're just left and right variants. No because these are the actual in-game names.

[proud cobalt]

Im a little surprised there are any really, I think I ran it for 42.8. It skips any conflicting pages though

[lucid junco]

@proud cobalt Is it possible to add "basement" overlay to the map?

I was looking through blogposts and it gave me an idea

And I think that every building that can randomly spawn basements is defined in coords

[proud cobalt]

I'm currently looking at the feasibility of a V2 of B42 map using a totally different back end. There are many things I've learnt from making the map and one of them is that openseadragon I don't think is really up to the task of it anymore. I won't be making any significant changes to V1 B42map as they won't move over to the official map which I can't do anything about the speed of that progressing

If I get anything working you'll be the first to have beta access

[proud cobalt]

Not sure what happened here, I would trust the Infobox/fuel page
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Fuel

[lucid junco]

aight

[languid kayak]

it was planned for V1 though as it was technically feasible, was also wondering if it's still in the plans

[proud cobalt]

Not sure what you mean?

[languid kayak]

the basements entrances, champ planned it but never implemented 😄

[proud cobalt]

Oh yeah, thats not V1 of B42 map though that's the renderer

[naive imp]

This guy man I swear

Bro has a computer for brain

I guess we all technically do but shut up ok I thought it was creative (it wasnt)

Here I am struggling with simple templates lol

Seriously tho calvy you're the goat bro

I'm tired

I need sleep

[dry robin]

Still ton's of space on the Box so, feel free to go crazy :D

[naive imp]

@past glacier do you have the map coordinates for these?
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Doe_Valley_Forest
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Doe_Valley_Lake

Also in the future, try to include more content on pages like this when you create them. PZWiki has a big history of pages like this becoming abandoned, especially if they're not noticed when they're first created.

Not trying to discourge you or anything, I really do appreciate it, just been clearing this kind of stuff off the wiki for a year and trying to avoid more of it

@lucid junco you sure these are airport coords? lol https://b42map.com/?19395x3928

Ill fix it for ya no worries

[languid kayak]

Well, it's marked as stub, so we'd eventually get to it, though indeed, we have some backlog 😄

[naive imp]

Indeed, that's the issue. If we keep creating more backlog it'll never get cleared up. This is especially troublesome given our lack of active users and the sheer scale of the wiki. It's not like locations can be automated either.

I do all my work in single massive edits for this very reason

[past glacier]

I dont play PZ I am from the Fallout Wiki, I just try to help every now and again and saw they were red links.

If there is a place I can find more info, I am happy to do so. Maybe I can ask my son, I know he plays the game 🙂

In any case I can mark them as "to delete" if there is a template to do so, just let me know

@wraith tinsel do you know anything about Doe Valley Lake or Forest, seems I kinda messed up the wiki and did not put enough info

Help your ol mom out

[past glacier]

Ok he sent me some map info !

[serene sage]

what a wholesome interaction

[past glacier]

I am lucky, my kid's got my back!

[lucid junco]

Was I the one to put them in

[naive imp]

Wholesome. Wow. Anyway you can use b42map.com and that will show you the map coordinates on there. You can just copy/paste from there

[lucid junco]

I dont think that I've put in coords into an airport

[naive imp]

You were the one who added the airport location to us mail service, no?

[lucid junco]

Yeah, but ive copied the ones in the airport page

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Louisville_International_Airport#Industrial

[naive imp]

I see. That's why I always double check.

Often coordinate end up mistyped or something

[lucid junco]

Feel free to fix it if I dont get around to it

Im grounded till weekend so plan on finishing up the airport page

[naive imp]

Already fixed but not on the airport page itself, I'll get to that at some point if you don't get to it first

Seriously appreciate your help btw. Especially with logos and while I was on hiatus. You're a legend, friend

[serene sage]

apparently you can eat door hinges, @proud cobalt possibly an issue with the bot? https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Door_Hinge

[proud cobalt]

Nah just an issue with regular Calvy

Fixed

[languid kayak]

Looking at the page, is it still true? https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Door_Hinge#Trivia also, I always get confused about the new metal skill renames, but I assume it's still metalworking, right?

[languid kayak]

https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Steam&diff=prev&oldid=1121699 clarified that

[serene sage]

seems anecdotal, but too tired to really point out why just yet

[flat sun]

wouldn't it be welding?

welding is what everyone calls metalworking and metalworking is what everyone calls blacksmithing 😅

[keen patio]

Is it because it is a personal account that backs up an argument without presenting data or actual statistical analysis? As in the very definition of an anecdote 🙂

[languid kayak]

yeah, this change is very confusing after you got used to metalworking/blacksmith 😩

[languid kayak]

Yeah, think it predated our detailed trivia style guide https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Help:Style_guide#Preferred_code_style#Trivia as we had people putting just everything into trivia (though lately have been putting a lot myself – bugs and names visible on the model, maybe I will find a better way to have them, as both are important to me kinda, bugs to forward to TIS and written text as it's often not visible/not indexed/searchable and people with vision impairment won't see it)

[lucid junco]

Again, Im not sure about up to 4 player's remote play

The Steam remote play support goes as high as the game allows it to

since its essentially imitating local co-op play on remote device

[languid kayak]

and PZ supports 4-play coop

I believe you can play 2+2 or 1+3 as like you said, it just acts like additonal display for the same screen, just over internet, and handles input

[keen patio]

I've been a IMDB Trivia contributor since the site first went live. I know the pain of style guides changing as the site evolves 🙂
It is amazing that you keep an up-to-date style guide though, and that people actively change entries using outdated styles.
Speaking of IMDB, maybe that could be a viable solution for when Trivia is used for non-trivia stuff? Have categories for it, like Trivia, Bugs, Lore etc.? Though then you'd need to make an objective classification of what goes where, and after implementation someone will need to go through every single page and re-categorize all trivia on the site...

And like with the recipe table discussion, this is just a top-of-my-noggin' suggestion based on my experience in web dev, not a "this would be the best way forward" kind of thing 🙂

[serene sage]

yep, and by extension kinda vague as well

[serene sage]

ok so as it turns out the chance to drop door hinges is actually based on your carpentry level and not metalworking/welding skill https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Door_Hinge#Trivia

so of course with only level 10 welding you're not going to get any hinges

just gonna remove the section now

[rotund echo]

because don't most doors fall under the carpentry skill?

[serene sage]

indeed

[thin cloud]

GOOF: Zombies aren't real

[keen patio]

GOOF [Anachronisms]: That model of flashlight was not commercially available until 1996, this game takes place in 1993.

[languid kayak]

Yeah, I thought of "Bugs" being separate just didn't get to formalizing it 😄

[languid kayak]

we have like that with earbuds that weren't popular before ipods 😄

[keen patio]

Yeah, it should be those weird headphones with the big puffy pillows on them and zero noise cancelling, that is just held together by a single, rigid ribbon of aluminium. Bonus points if those puffy pillows are orange!
But there are many anachronisms in the game, we just ignore them and pretend it is an alternate timeline 😄

[unique ermine]

Hello, can someone please check this template?
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Navbox_regions/cs

It's a translated version of Template:Navbox regions, which I expanded earlier this day to allow for translation of all strings instead of just a few (so translations to languages with different scripts become possible. I just added the {{tt}} template to all links in the navbox). However, for some reason, it is pretty messed up and I have no idea what did I screw up. The original template functions normally.
Prior to my expansion of the original, the translations worked fine....

[digital helm]

I've rolled it back for now. tt shouldn't be needed inside ll because it already gets translated based on the page's display title with title https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Title

[digital helm]

*shouldn't be needed (in most cases)

[naive imp]

@proud cobalt I think something broke https://www.reddit.com/r/projectzomboid/s/4Gu8LxbXxL

I don't think door hinges are edible

[serene sage]

fixed already: #pzwiki_editing message

[naive imp]

Ah

[rotund echo]

Calvy? What are you doing here? o.O

[proud cobalt]

[rotund echo]

So apparently, the flier for the Louisville PD doesn't actually defog the police station and prison, but rather the eastern building?

[languid kayak]

@thin cloud^ ?

[thin cloud]

Should defog whatever the main HQ is, not the court or jail

[rotund echo]

The main HQ is both police station and jail though?

Actually, it might make a bit sense to have the drug seminar in the east building, since it is some kind of medical/research building and even has a seminar hall

[thin cloud]

Yes, I assume I had a look around the map, don't quite recall

[rotund echo]

What what, is thit actually true???

https://www.reddit.com/r/projectzomboid/comments/1cnt0vu/til_that_entering_louisville_will_cause_all/

[serene sage]

true indeed, I made a video about it I believe

note that spawning into LV won't do this

seems to only be if you enter LV after spawning in

[rotund echo]

So you go to the "outside world" (Louisville) and all the TV news and radio news becomes like, censored?

Can you link me that video you made?

[serene sage]

yes, this way the TV/radio stations don't contradict what the player sees (zombies everywhere in LV) before the fall of the city occurs

https://youtu.be/dHnYB0P_2ic

there's a bunch of other topics in it, should be easy to find in the video though

[lucid junco]

I just found out that i was pronounsing Louisville wrong the whole time

[lucid junco]

It is

thats how we previously assumed the LV border

that is slightly into the border camp

Now its honestly god knows

[lucid junco]

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/louisville

[flat sun]

you were saying lewis ville...

[languid kayak]

I never had trouble https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_with_Louie 😄

[naive imp]

@lucid junco did you mean to leave the images on some of the new airport locations blank? Just asking bc I know sometimes I misspell stuff or something, wasn't sure if you realized

@languid kayak @digital helm @proud cobalt seems a user added navboxes to all the spawn towns "for easier navigation"? Isn't there only supposed to be one navbox at the bottom of each page? Not sure if they're necessary, especially considering we have the locations table. Was gonna ask them about it but I want your guys' (and others) opinion before proceeding

They're for all the locations in those towns and I think it's completely redundant and should be removed. Thoughts?

[languid kayak]

There might be more than one navbox per page, especially sinc it's all under a header now, though I don't think we had pages like that?

[naive imp]

Nevermind just muldraugh and Riverside for now

[languid kayak]

As for the actual usefulness, that's another question

[naive imp]

Not all spawn towns

Yeah I don't think it's needed. We have the locations table already and it's seen before the navbox. Plus I'm trying to remove redundant information on the wiki for over a year

[languid kayak]

I think it may not be a terrible idea? Though Muldraugh is not linted at all in its own navbox

Compare that to Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poland

[naive imp]

I don't think so. I mean why have it when you have the locations table right there? Plus when we did the survey wiki navigation was a key concern among users and this may confuse them. Navigation already isn't the best either

[naive imp]

Yeah but I'm not sure that's a fair comparison. Poland is a whole country, plus all the articles in the town navboxes are just regurgitating info that's already present, vs that Poland navbox actually being useful as you can't possibly fit all that on one page

I will admit I am fairly biased due to my strong dislike of redundancy but in my eyes navigation already needs improvement, and this may make it more opaque/confusing

[languid kayak]

That's a point, yeah. It's not about "Businesses in Muldraugh" but just point to generic businesses that happen to operate in Muldraugh

[naive imp]

Which is exactly what the locations table already does

So why have this?

[languid kayak]

it could list businessess and venues exclusive to Muldraugh, but the question is whether it's really needed indeed 🤔

[naive imp]

Plus the table shows coordinates

[naive imp]

Exactly because the table already does the same thing

I mean I guess it's more compact, smaller? Maybe slightly easier to read? But the issue is its at the bottom of the page so you'd have to scroll past the table that's already there.

I kind of want all the pages to be standardized also instead of just an amalgamation of whatever people decide to write/add but that's not super relevant

@lucid junco thoughts on the above discussion?

@rotund echo too

[languid kayak]

I think we can ping @unique ermine too (assuming it's you?)

[naive imp]

I forgot to do that 💀

My bad lol

I thought I did

[naive imp]

The one good use I can see is adding it the page of businesses that are in a certain town, but what about businesses that are in a bunch of different towns? Then we have like 4 navboxes at the bottom of the page. I was thinking of creating a navbox for business chains but I wanted to hold off until the generic pages are done (ie not for a while)

Plus we also have the infobox that lists all the towns its in, but that doesn't show other businesses in the town tho

And I was thinking later on, we have a redirect in the infobox to the chain, but I want to do all the individual articles first so that may take a while unless someone else takes it on (please do)

[past glacier]

The rule of thumb I use is if someone thinks it’s helpful, I trust them. Even if I think it’s superfluous, more info is better than less, and if they find it useful, everyone wins

[rotund echo]

Hmm, I actually like this idea

[lucid junco]

Likely just forgot to upload them before going to sleep

[proud cobalt]

Actually the reason we moved to having a navigation section was partially to facilitate having multiple navboxes for pages. I'd rather a page have two smaller navboxes, one for Muldraugh and one for the relevant type of building (e.g. "Gas stations") than the current bohemoth

[proud cobalt]

Obviously the new navbox still needs some work 😄

[naive imp]

See this is why I ask for input from others

The big navbox will need to be cleaned up for sure. I plan to totally overhaul it so that it's easier to read and use

Just gotta get all the locations done first

[proud cobalt]

The idea came from how minecraft wiki does items

[lucid junco]

Fine I think

[lucid junco]

Even with biases towards old infobox, its very large and gives so much info, that it ends up being kinda useless

[rotund echo]

It's useless if people don't actually read or even look at it

[languid kayak]

I always use navboxes to navigate on wikis personally. It's probably my favorite way to find relevant pages (like all NPCs in the game, or similar items)

all all kind of similar stuff on Wikipedia

[rotund echo]

Any gameplay screenshots on pzwiki.net must be completely vanilla and have absolutely no sign of mods at all, right?

[proud cobalt]

For the most part yeah, with very limited exceptions

[tulip kiln]

Yoo I think thats another easter egg. Pretty sure thats a Columbo reference

[lucid junco]

https://tenor.com/view/just-one-more-one-more-thing-just-one-more-thing-columbo-gif-11951937

[lucid junco]

Yeah

@digital helm Do you know where can I find zombies, that are used in stories?

So like Jane, Dean, Woodcraft guy and others

I think ive already asked it more than once, but only now getting to updating their pages with appropriate images

It looks like the game pulls info about zed out of somewhere

only specifying skin texture and name

[digital helm]

The 2nd arg for addZombiesOnSquare is an outfit.

Outfits are in clothing.xml (media/clothing/)

• each outfit has a GUID
• each clothing item has a GUID, so it's a little tricky to find. The GUID for each item is defined in media/clothing/clothingItems/
• Calvy generated pages for these for b41 https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Dean_(outfit)

Hair is in HairOutfitDefinitions.lua (lua/shared/Definitions)
Attachments is in AttachedWeaponDefinitions.lua (lua/shared/Definitions)
Other loot is in Distributions.lua (lua/server/Items)

Each clothing item has a ClothingItem property in the scripts txt. That is the name of the corresponding xml file in clothing/clothingItems/

[proud cobalt]

Jeez Sharp isn't that simple enough it's only 5 files and some java

[digital helm]

5+ each xml file for each item 😄

[lucid junco]

https://tenor.com/view/drake-notebook-gif-20708336

damn

why didnt I think about it

[rotund echo]

I play almost pure vanilla

What's stopping me from playing pure vanilla? The lack of hairstyles I like, so I download only Spongie's Hair (and API) as my only mods xD

But my normal gameplays is pretty much all vanilla so I can still contribute on the wiki by writing

[lucid junco]

How do they know that nerds would report on it

Anyway

This is dean

Its not specified if he has watches on his right or left

or which colour his clothes are

So much written code and id's, yet no mention of colour

come on tis

https://tenor.com/view/spider-man-norman-osborn-surprised-you-cant-do-this-to-me-gif-24182893

They've renamed him

So he is now Woodcut, Woodcraft, Jeremiah H. Wutkrafft. Previously known as: NotDean Doe

Dean the lier

[lucid junco]

@languid kayak @digital helm Should we kinda merge 3N page and Life and Living page?

Like its a tv Network that hosts News station on TURBO channel, and separate channel "Life and Living", and a building inside of LV

[digital helm]

No? They're different channels

[rotund echo]

What could NNN and Life & Living be doing in the same page

[lucid junco]

Not the same page, but they are a part of the same network

like they are shot at the same location with likely the same crew

[rotund echo]

I gave a look at the NNN and Turbo buildings on b42map.com, but I didn't notice L&L stuffs there

[digital helm]

I see. I think it'd be way too confusing for people if they were on the same page. The same as if we had fossoil and gas 2 go on the same page

Are they after the location, or the channel? I'd say 99% of the time, it'd be the channel

[rotund echo]

Huh, there's a kitchen film set at NNN building?

[digital helm]

Also, Life and Living is our most viewed page

[rotund echo]

Yeah people are going to be browsing L&L page to find out show times and XPs, not to find out where it is canonically filmed at

And wait, is L&L really the most viewed pzwiki.net article?

[digital helm]

Also, these pages are about the channel first. The location was just tacked onto them since they already existed when Louisville was added. No harm having a separate page for the location, and keeping the channels separate, imo

[lucid junco]

Check NNN building second floor

[digital helm]

Yeah it is, by a fair bit

Weapon is 2nd

[rotund echo]

If you want to add this on pzwiki.net, I think probably on Trivias, I won't protest you on that

[rotund echo]

I would assume this is Woodcraft set? Look, he even has a poster of a hot girl

[lucid junco]

he also has pretty much everything he makes during the show on the set

(and its called woodcraftset internally)

and the woodcraft guy is also on the set

[rotund echo]

No way! He really is shirtless!

[languid kayak]

Wutkrafft 😄

[lucid junco]

Must be German

[rotund echo]

It's not even a real surname

Krafft is a real surname, but Wutkrafft is not

[languid kayak]

I wonder what this change was about? https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Template:Main/zh-hant&curid=160459&diff=1121873&oldid=1121871 Changing tll to tlx, any reason/benefit to that? Maybe @digital helm can help?

Also @digital helm shouldn't the {{About}} be above {{Quote}}? https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Spiffo's

@lucid junco that's no longer needed since we have https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Articles_requiring_item_models which is populated automatically 😛

https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Socks_-_Heavy&curid=128313&diff=1122221&oldid=1111277

[lucid junco]

really?

oh

[languid kayak]

yup, and for the items lacking 3D models (and not having the matching entry in infobox) the category is not added, see https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Scanner_Module

Also clicking the icon for items that have no 3D model brings the upload window with proper name

[languid kayak]

watches are generally worn on the left wrist, so I'd say unless proved otherwise, left would be standard IMO?

random google result: https://www.danielwellington.com/blogs/editorial/on-which-wrist-should-a-man-wear-his-watch

[languid kayak]

I guess we leave them as is then?

and maybe iron out later?

[naive imp]

That's probably the best idea for now imo. Info is info I guess

[naive imp]

Agreed with @digital helm we should not merge them. They're part of the same network but the life and living page is extremely useful to people and triple n is just for lore. I think we should put trivia that they're part of the same network but that's it

Usually I'm all for merging stuff but the channels serve too different of a purpose for it to make sense

[languid kayak]

The August 2025 summary is up. Enjoy your read <@&1205891296565268520>s! https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:News#August_2025_summary

Don't want this ping? Remove the wiki editor role in id:customize

[dawn tulip]

Update ?

[serene sage]

wiki update

[sweet talon]

ayy ive appeared on the summary since april

[naive imp]

Now go to sleep lol

[snow rivet]

wiki/Life_and_Living_TV is my auto-complete for pzwiki in my browser from years ago when I used to refer to it more than any other page, so I've ended up using it as my launch page hehe

[past glacier]

Hooray 🎉

[digital helm]

tll will link to the translated page, while tlx will link to the base/english page. They should only be interchangeable on the English page

[digital helm]

Yeah. quote is part of the page content, whereas about is part of the maintenance, similar to mboxes, header and LangSwitch

[languid kayak]

That's why I wonder why they changed it to tlx explicitly 🤔

I also wonder, do tlx have any advantages over tll? Less complexity/include size?

[languid kayak]

Changed that

@digital helm is the body part for https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Shirt_-_Riverside_Rangers_Baseball#Body_part correct? If so, I think it's a bug? Compare to these:
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Shirt_-_Kentucky_Baseball#Body_part
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Shirt_-_Z_Hurricanes_Baseball#Body_part

@proud cobalt Base.Shirt? Is it accurate? We don't even have a redirect for Shirt set up https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Shirt_-_Kentucky_Baseball#History

[digital helm]

Not sure. But it should be tll here. It designed specifically for this situation. Where you want to display the base template, but link to the language.

tlx would have less overhead. There's no language check

[digital helm]

From the code section on the page.

BloodLocation = UpperBody

So it's correct based on that.
Best to confirm in-game

[languid kayak]

true indeed

definitely a bug then

[proud cobalt]

Usually bassed on dominant hand. Most people are right handed so watch goes on the left. My grandpa is left handed and wears his on the right

[proud cobalt]

No i've removed

[rotund echo]

Meanwhile, all Zomboid people are right handed

[lucid junco]

@digital helm @languid kayak is there a "aliases" or "other names" for characters like woodcraft guy?

Or should a nickname be used

[languid kayak]

what do you mean? Like ingame?

[lucid junco]

He is referred to as "Woodcut" in code and "NotDean Doe" before getting proper name, so wouldnt that go into "nickname" section in the infobox

close to Bob Smith with his "Baldspot" nickname

[languid kayak]

oh, in infobox? Sure. I added that to the body, as far as what infobox can support, I'd have to check

Seems it's just |nickname= so I'd just add them there, separateed by commas.

[lucid junco]

uuh

metal haircut

@digital helm Where can I find caircut definitions to these haircut definitions? 😅

[digital helm]

Ahh... I'm not sure. I'd start by looking in the translations for "Mohawk Fan" to get the translation string. Then go backwards from there. I can have a look later, but won't be for a few hours

[digital helm]

Here's the translation for Metal

IGUI_Hair_Metal = "Straight Long",

Definitions stored as xml in hairStyles\hairStyles.xml

    <male>
        <name>Metal</name>
        <model>skinned/hair/m_hair_metal</model>
        <texture>F_Hair_White</texture>
        <alternate category="default" style="HatLong" />
        <alternate category="Group01" style="HatLong" />
        <alternate category="Group02" style="HatLong" />
        <alternate category="Group04" style="Metal" />
        <alternate category="Group05" style="Metal" />
        <level>3</level>
        <trimChoices>Mullet</trimChoices>
        <trimChoices>Fabian</trimChoices>
        <trimChoices>LongBraids</trimChoices>
        <trimChoices>LongBraids02</trimChoices>
    </male>

beards are in hairStyles\beardStyles.xml

[lucid junco]

where are the translations then?

oh nvm

[lucid junco]

Nolan Nolan

[lucid junco]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Nolan_Nolan

[proud cobalt]

🫡

That's my president

[lucid junco]

Since we have a page on Twiggy/sir twiggy ive made one for nolan

@proud cobalt A slight quirk that ive noticed with loot table is that it shows 100% for outfit items that have sub items

E.g. Nolan can spawn with either Snakeskin western boots or Western Boots - Embroidered

[proud cobalt]

Idk if sub items existed when i did outfits

[lucid junco]

Yet loot table shows 100% for both

[proud cobalt]

Yeah the parser is just parsing them as separate items

            "GUID": "70ddb592-dd77-4390-8840-36ee8d46d14e",
            "Items": {
                "Hat_Cowboy_White": 100,
                "Shirt_FormalWhite": 100,
                "Tie_Full": 100,
                "Trousers_Suit": 100,
                "Socks_Ankle_Black": 100,
                "Shoes_CowboyBoots_SnakeSkin": 100,
                "Shoes_CowboyBoots_Fancy": 100
            }```

[lucid junco]

I see

[proud cobalt]

I've written it on my to do board

Investigate outfit sub items

[lucid junco]

I think Woodcut also has that with western boots and working boots

[proud cobalt]

            "GUID": "f10e62e7-021e-4af7-81b3-8a0fb9561b41",
            "Items": {
                "WristWatch_Left_ClassicBrown": 100,
                "Trousers_JeanBaggy": 100,
                "Socks_Ankle": 100,
                "Underwear_Boxers_Hearts": 100,
                "Shoes_WorkBoots": 100,
                "Shoes_CowboyBoots": 100
            }```

[lucid junco]

Yeah, that

[proud cobalt]

Do you want this file btw? It's just a Json

[lucid junco]

Sure

[lucid junco]

Would be faster than searching items on wiki with their ID's

Additionally, Nolan is completely absent from Loot tables

That makes Nolan's Key chain from one of the Rarest items to still rare, but guaranteed on his body

Likely

Im not a coder

[keen patio]

Took me a long time (and a lot of help) to figure out how to make my own custom zombies with their outfits, and make my own bags filled with goodies, and how to attach the custom bags to the custom zombies. I can't see any good guides on how to do this. Would this be an appropriate thing to put on the wiki? Or should I make it elsewhere and link under the Guides section of the main modding page?

[proud cobalt]

@flint vapor

[flint vapor]

Yes of course you can make a guide on the wiki

We can make a page about creating clothing items, which will link existing guides which serve as a reference

And you can have a section about outfit making

[keen patio]

Awesome, just checking before I do anything. Got a few things to do today, but I'll see if I can get my thoughts together coherently in the next few days 🙂

[lucid junco]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Judge_Matt_Hass
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Paperback#Politics
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Paperback_(hass)
@serene sage Ive refrained from writing "Right wing" political writer on Matt Hass's page, even if at a glance it appears to be so (at least how I saw it at a glance)

Up to you as a lore project leader

Huh

Interesting

So some of the sets for shooting of Triple-N programs is in their building

While others are in TURBO building

[flat sun]

FWIW all they are is when the main item's chance passes, there's an equal probability of the main item or any of its sub items to be chosen

[flint vapor]

OwO

[flint vapor]

@languid kayak also that's wrong

Bcs it's a modding field, and it needs to be in the main category alongside the Lua API category

Like Scripts does

Like Animation does

[flint vapor]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:TIS_Team_Photo_2.png

Lol just found that

Sadly idk any of the heads on that one, I think I only know RJ's one ?

Actually not even sure here

Might need a better documentation on that one guys 🥲
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Infobox

idk what can be put in the color param

[serene sage]

hmmm

well it certainly does seem that way for me as well

I guess you could put it in if you mention that it's a "possibility"

[digital helm]

we should really get on that... Been like that for years 😆

[digital helm]

It's any css color value.
Such as a hex code or keyword like red
It's essentially a border-color property

[flint vapor]

Also would be nice to be able to have a proper empty title for it

Bcs currently the solution has been to add <div></div> but this isn't perfect and it leaves a bit of space

And visually, you notice it if you add a border

[digital helm]

Not really the intended use, but should be straightforward to do. Added it to my to-do

[flint vapor]

Nice thanks

[flint vapor]

I just find the title to be too much in some cases

In the modding project category at least, idk the title of the page literally already does the job 😅

[languid kayak]

I probably was under impression of what's in navbox? Automated navboxes later down the line will surely help 😄

[languid kayak]

I don't know many, but other than that there's Turbo, Lemmy, Binky and Mash

and I thinnk WIll's there? You can see them on the rezzed how not to make games

[lucid junco]

@thin cloud Just to be sure, have some confusion as how canonical is current state of the lore. What I mean by that is should we assume that currently zombified characters are canonically dead, or just an kind of easter egg that adds to the world building until NPCs are added?

Cause otherwise its creates a lot of questions on why some characters can be found in such places

Like Woodcut guy on his set, Joan Hartford in her studio, Matt Hass in his studio West Point Mayor in his office

And Jackie Jay still being a walking zombie, despite Jonas killing her and sitting on her set, radioing in

Overall its a question of whether I write "Lore wise its not clear if they are dead, but they can be currently found zombified in game" or "As per game, this character had turned into a zombie, making them canonically dead" or something along these lines

[keen patio]

Just noticed something, a bit of a minor thing, but usually external sites open in a new tab. On the wiki, it doesn't.

[rotund echo]

Honestly I'm thinking they are more likely to be easter eggs than anything

Also, here's an example: Kate, Bob, and Bobby Collins can all be found as zombies, but TIS has said they will return in the future.

So does that mean these three characters are canonically dead story-wise just because they appear as zombies in this current build? Most likely not

Also I hope Dean isn't dead >_< he's a gigachad for teaching us all that in Exposure Survival

[thin cloud]

They can be considered temporarily dead

[lucid junco]

got it

[digital helm]

Default behaviour is to open an external link in the same tab. Which is normal for wikis. It's more common to open a separate tab on for profit sites, like online stores, because the analytics look better. Less bounce rates. That's my experience at least.
Personally, I prefer to keep the same tab. If I wanna open a new tab I'll do it myself. Hate it when sites do that. Also hate it when I see a non-techy's browser and they have 100 tabs open they didn't know about 😄

[keen patio]

That's... No, that's not the reason for opening in a new tab...
It is a usability feature, as most users will want to get back to where they were when they clicked the external link. And opening in a new tab is a much more visual way of letting the user know that they are no longer on your site.
At least that's what my web dev university education and 10 years in the industry said 😄

The only time an external link should open in the same tab, overriding the user's journey on the current site, is if that link follows the "user journey of focus". If they are looking up sharks and click a link to a page for Great White sharks, and there's a link there to London Aquarium in the middle of a paragraph about places that have Great White sharks, that link should open in a new tab.
If the user is on a page about finding information, and there's only one link there, clearly defined in for example a table, the user's focus will likely be to go to that site, and it can be opened in the same tab.

To take an actual live example:
If I'm on the PZ wiki and wanna see how to install Umbrella, clicking the link to Umbrella's site should open it in a new tab, so I can continue the instructions on the Wiki after I am done with the instructions on the Umbrella site. Otherwise I, as the user, will have to re-navigate all the way back to the wiki and the correct page again. And since Umbrella opens some links in new tabs, if I want to use the back button to get back to the wiki page, I will now have to remember which of all the tabs that was on.
Nothing to do with profitability or making statistics look good, it is a basic UX feature 🙂

[digital helm]

I think that's a good philosophy in general.
But, Good UX = better retention metrics = more ads served = more profits. It's all the same loop. Because one thing is true it doesn't mean something else isn't.
Imo good UX also means giving the user the choice. If I want a tab opened, I'll open it, whether it's external or internal, it's all the same to me. I shouldn't be forced to close a tab when I click a link.
Back to my example, a user having 100 tabs open that they didn't know were open, I don't think that's good UX.

[keen patio]

That seems more like your personal preference, rather than an industry standard way of doing things that has become convention recognised by most users. It's like saying you want the save icon to change because you don't like it, vs having a save icon that the average user would intuitively know what it does.

[unique ermine]

Sorry for such a late reply.

Regarding the navbox, I thought it would be a good idea to create only a town-specific one, to make navigation between articles about buildings and businesses in Muldraugh simpler.

I know the locations navbox is right there, but I think it's just too large to be of much utility. Plus, you don't really learn from it where the location is, you just learn whether it's an office or a store. A warehouse from Riverside can be right next to a warehouse in Louisville.

Maybe links to generic business pages could be removed and only those linking to businesses exclusively in Muldraugh could remain if having multiple navboxes on a single page is a problem?

[unique ermine]

The navbox is useful in the regard that while the location table on the main Muldraugh article can be used really only on that single article, the navbox can be inserted into multiple pages.

If you want to quickly jump between articles about Waites Motel and Sunstar Motel, then you can do it without scrolling through the huge and general locations navbox. Or even without knowing Sunstar Motel is called Sunstar Motel and merely knowing that "there's another motel in the town" (you can of course argue that categories are suited for this, but I don't think those are utilised much by an average user).

[languid kayak]

It seems it's the same on other wikis? At least I tried English Wikipedia, same behaviour?

[languid kayak]

pinging @naive imp for the reply, but we generally decided to keep these navboxes I guess 🙂

[flint vapor]

Direct access to wiki pages from in-game

[native thorn]

haven't been up to date with the game for months, anyone knows of any breakthroughs in agriculture in b42?
I probably need to do some maintenance on the article

[proud cobalt]

From what I've heard Agriculture is in a pretty rough state right now and will receive some significant work to be more viable

[digital helm]

Links opening in a new tab isn't the standard though. The standard is to open in the same tab, with some exceptions. One of those is what you've described, which is trivial. My point was that businesses take advantage of a trivial exception.
Browsers already provide the functionality to open in a new tab, so a website doesn't need to decide that for a user, with some exceptions, e.g., security.

For a wiki, not having external links opening new tabs is the standard. A wiki can be edited by anyone, not just admins, so your average user wouldn't know whether an external link should be in a new tab or not, so it's in the same tab. Which is the standard and expected behaviour.

[languid kayak]

What Calvy said below pretty much, which is good as we didn't really put much work into Agriculture yet, the only work being in French here: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/User:Quentinlamamy/Wip_agriculture_42_FR

[keen patio]

I don't think a 25 year old website should be the determining factor for what is currently convention though. When Wikipedia was created, tabs didn't even exist.
I'm not saying PZ Wiki SHOULD open external links in new tabs, I'm saying it is the current convention for most of the web that if a link would take you off a page you are currently focusing on, it opens in a new tab.

You don't need to require every editor to add that functionality, you can modify the parser for your own wiki to check for external links and open those in a new tab. That's how most devs do it nowadays.

You can do absolutely nothing too, I'm not here to dictate how it should be. I was just reporting there is a user-unfriendly portion of the site. It's up to you what you wanna do with that report. You don't even have to defend your decision to not do anything to me, but if you're gonna argue my actual profession and education is wrong, I'm gonna reply 🙂

[proud cobalt]

Just FYI, we aren't devs, and we don't get a say in the development of mediawiki. External links open in the same tab on wikipedia, that's the decision they've made for the software. UI UX feedback would be for the wikimedia foundation devs
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Design

They're hiring a lead UX designer too 😄

[keen patio]

Yeah, I know by standard they follow what Wikipedia does. But they have libraries for integrating things like content parsing, for individual sites to modify the behaviour themselves 🙂

And thanks, I might look into that job.

[proud cobalt]

Yeah i mean like i said, we're not devs, and we don't have control of the software both on the development side, or on the sysadmin side

Thats by the MediaWiki foundation and The Indie Stone

[keen patio]

But TIS people hang around here too, don't they? So they would see this too then, right? Like I said, it wasn't a call to action, it was just meant to be a short report on something I found that breaks common convention, that snowballed into a larger discussion.

[proud cobalt]

We'll probably stick to Wiki standard convention. We're already waiting for some higher priority changes from TIS from about 28 months ago. Should the default change it will come downstream through a version update

[keen patio]

And by the way, minutes after I posted that "live example" yesterday, someone had that exact thing happen and needed help over at the Modder discord server, so it is something that is affecting users 🙂

[keen patio]

I guess an alternative could be to rewrite that particular page (and other pages with a similar flow) to flow differently, so that people realize the link to the external site is not the entirety of the process. If you want a no-code solution 🙂

[digital helm]

Feel free. The wiki is open for anyone to edit. @flint vapor FYI since you wrote the article

re this article https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Umbrella_(modding)

[digital helm]

@flint vapor I've removed title as a requirement for an infobox. I didn't remove the thin bar yet, since it'll need a bigger change

[keen patio]

Could be a good project for me to get into editing for the wiki, yeah. Since I'm planning on some guides myself. I'll look at that when I got a few moments to spare (or need procrastination)

[digital helm]

Finally looking at this. No idea why they all used the notepad icon 🤔 The parser outputs them as the correct icons and names. I don't remember changing anything since it was last ran

[digital helm]

Fixed sewing pattern going into skill books too

[fallen wren]

i remember making an account on the wiki so i could help but i havent gotten a single edit done... mainly cause many things are usually done semi automated or something else

was checking food list from all items pages

food list still b41... while others like weapons pages is b42

hmmmmm

[proud cobalt]

Lists are being upgraded to be automated mostly in order of their priority. Weapon is one of the top visited pages on the entire wiki, food unfortunately not so popular. Also some other works got in the way of the list upgrades (e.g. animal processing)

[languid kayak]

oh, it was just wrong icon being uploaded, should be solved now? I think

[languid kayak]

yeah, food and vehicle parts (and furniture/movables)

the rest was updated by @digital helm script-side, but the summaries are still user-made

it's just the list of items itself is generated automatically now, so if you add something there, it will probably get overwritten eventually.

If you edit with the code on, you will see the bot tags in comments <!-- and -->

[fallen wren]

so what should i do with it since i want it to be properly update

[languid kayak]

food? I would probably wait for @digital helm' response

[flint vapor]

Nice thank you !

[flint vapor]

re this article ?

Wdym ?

[flint vapor]

What do you guys think, do we ditch my custom colors idea like that ?

Probably better that way ...

[flat sun]

just feels out of place to me

[flint vapor]

Yea that's my thought too

At the end of the day, it's not that good

Also going to ditch the custom ToolTip class that I had made to be able to render color squares, and instead go and create a custom ISRichText tag to have a colored square directly

Should make it easier to manage, especially with languages that might change the tooltip significantly, as here my method wasn't very flexible

[flint vapor]

Ok made a custom RichTextPanel tag for fluid colors like that, which I can possibly improve a bit more in the future as from my understand you can even have some effects for fluids in the fluid transfer menu
I need to look into it a bit more

That

Hmm, surely this is intended for your character to disappear after mixing milk and cola

[languid kayak]

I like that!

[flint vapor]

It's basically the same as before haha

But yea I removed the colors, too out of place

[naive imp]

All good bro. Thanks for replying. I kind of jumped the gun on that so I apologize

As for the use case of the navboxes, I see no reason to remove or significantly alter them for now. Navboxes are all gonna get changed around anyway and I'll probably end up splitting that gigantic locations one into multiple templates or at least make it easier to read. I might ping you when the time comes, will probably need second opinion

[digital helm]

@keen patio said someone had issues following the instructions on that umbrella article, so was going to rewrite it along with similar articles to change the flow. Wanted to keep you in the loop since you wrote the article #pzwiki_editing message

[digital helm]

Someone was working on something for it so I didn't want to erase what they'd done, so it got moved down in the list. I could move it up in my priorities. Should be relatively straightforward to get done.
It's not something I'd recommend trying to update manually.

[flat sun]

i'm not entirely sure how that happened because if you do follow the link to the umbrella page (which is not particularly highlighted to start with) the same instructions are there 😅

[digital helm]

🤷 I'm with you

[rotund echo]

Who the fuck listed the regular hammer and club hammer tags as metalworking tools in the metalworking page

I want his head NOW

[naive imp]

Sir this is a Wendy's

[rotund echo]

Calvy did it???? https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Metalworking&diff=prev&oldid=919083

[proud cobalt]

They were at the time

[rotund echo]

At the time you could smith with regular hammers?

[proud cobalt]

The recipes just required a hammer tag

It was 6 months ago

[rotund echo]

damn

but now it asks for smithing hammers / ball peen hammers

[rotund echo]

Oh, I see, some recipes just need a regular hammer while the advanced recipes demand a smithing hammer

[keen patio]

The link is the most obvious text in that section, the instructions are less obvious, and there are no instructions on how to get Umbrella on the Lua Language Server page it links to.
I was just annoyed it opened in the same tab, making us lose focus on the "journey", but others have straight up been confused. Many people do things with top-down processing, meaning we don't even read the next section before doing what the current section tells us to do.
My suggestion was to make external sites open in a new tab, but that was met with some resistance, as the 25 year old Wikipedia doesn't do that, and TIS might need to get involved to get something like that working, and about half a dozen other reasons. So I suggested redesigning the guide itself, to make it more obvious that clicking that link isn't the first step of the process, and that more instructions are given, at which point it was suggested that I could edit it too.
Since I am planning on making my own guides in the near future, I thought that was a good first step, to get into how editing for this particular site works.

There, now we have the whole story, so we don't go in circles every time it is brought up 🙂

Not a critique of whoever wrote it, just a note that some users find it unintuitive enough to go to Discord for help about it 🙂

[languid kayak]

from Calvy 😄

[flint vapor]

Ok can you please sum up what the problem is with the Umbrella page because the fews bits that I've read for now are either things that the wiki itself should change, or you didn't read the Umbrella installation instructions 😅

The page explains to you what you need to install to get Umbrella, then once you've installed those, you follow the steps, so idk what you're searching for on the Lua language server page but it is never mentioned to search for anything there

Only bit you could argue about is how to install that language server pack sure ?

And PLEASE don't write a million line long comment because the reason I ask for a sum up is bcs there's too many of those and I literally can't find the informations 😅

[keen patio]

Sorry, I have an issue with concice communication. I can't both give details and keep it short without getting misunderstood 🙂 #AutismProblems 😄 I'll try though.

[flint vapor]

Go simple, what is the problem ?

No details, just which part of the page

[keen patio]

Top-down processors (like many neurodivergent people have) read instructions sequentially. First item on the guide says "install the plugin at this link". The link takes us off the page. We don't see the rest of the instructions.

I only went back to the page because I'm a web dev, and thought it was strange the link opened in the same tab. But as we were discussing that part, someone literally asked in the modding discord about this very thing, and had that exact problem.

So if you want, when I got the time, I can reorder it a bit so that it is more clear before any links are clicked that there are more instructions and they should come back to the guide.

[flint vapor]

Okay sure I'm curious

Idk I would have assumed having more text after would just be enough

Tho the page opening in a different page that's a wiki problem in general

[keen patio]

Yeah, hence the long discussions the past few days 🙂
Top-down processing means we do not even register that there is more text relevant to the current task. If the first thing we are told are to click a link, we'll click that link. Then, if it opens in the same tab, our focus is on what's in that link and the rest of the instructions sorta just fades. Especially if that link, like in the case of the VSCode extension in question, has a lot of instructions itself.
Sorry, it's just how many neurodivergent minds work. a > b > c > d rather than b > a > d > (optionally) c...

[proud cobalt]

Ok i've added container_type/room lookup to B42 map specifically for loot finding. Added to the loot module too. Currently linking the room which seems best for now. Open to ideas on that. When clicked map loads and adds marker to everywhere a container with that type can be found in that room.

[digital helm]

This is a game changer

[proud cobalt]

Using our tile parser I can output a json list of the container type for each sprite. Then using a modified version of champs tile searcher I can get coords of each container. Then I can check if the tile type shows up in any of the specified rooms

[digital helm]

That's awesome. Vehicles and animals next? 😄

[proud cobalt]

Oh jesus no 😂

[languid kayak]

my eyes!

[serene sage]

https://tenor.com/view/reaction-my-eyes-cant-unsee-burn-gif-7225082

[proud cobalt]

Title case?

[digital helm]

Proper noun, so should always be capitalised

[proud cobalt]

Yeah I'll have to fix it lol

It's fixed

[gloomy glen]

That's a ND thing?? Makes sense now with my experience lol I always have to go back and open a thousand tabs because of that (and then forget what I was doing)

[digital helm]

@proud cobalt not sure what happened here 🤔 2 pages for the same id
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Bowl_of_Oatmeal
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Bowl_of_Oatmeal_(crafted)

[proud cobalt]

Hmm me either. Maybe there was a B41 'crafted' version? The descriptor one should go

[digital helm]

Nothing in the 42.10 > 42.11 diff

Oatmeal is the baseItem and resultItem for the evolved recipe in 42.11

I'll check through the other versions

[digital helm]

Yeah, couldn't find anything in 41 or 42. Going to put it down as a mix-up since sometimes food has a crafted variant for evolved recipes. This one doesn't

[proud cobalt]

Must have just been a mix up than

[proud cobalt]

@flint vapor should we prioritise installing mods over commissioning mods? Feels like users would be looking at how to install them more than commission them
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Mods

[digital helm]

I'd probably move commissions to last, after Using mods

[flint vapor]

Sounds good

[digital helm]

Picked up working on food again. Here's where I'm at now https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=User:Vaileasys/sandbox_2&oldid=1122591
I remember why I shelved this in the first place. There's no straightforward way to automate organising food. Already using a combination of FoodType, recipes, foraging, Tags and even DisplayName

[gloomy glen]

Should I translate the aiming page? Or is it going to be edited soon?

[rotund echo]

Do you think this warrants another entry on the easter eggs page?

The guy in blue in the Coalfield brochure looks like Arthur Morgan from RDR2

[flint vapor]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3567109091

[digital helm]

It hasn't really been updated since build 41. There's 2 call to actions to help get it updated, so someone may at any point

[digital helm]

I'd put it down as a coincidence, without confirmation. Blue vs red is a common trope for good vs evil. Also, Clint Eastwood wears the same shirt in The Good the Bad and the Ugly

[proud cobalt]

You don't understand how much I don't want to do firearms 😆

[flat sun]

nobody's really sure we even got it right for b41 😅 absolute nightmare to work out

[proud cobalt]

<@&671452400221159444>

Discords gotta do something about this

[fallen wren]

thank you for the hard work 🥺

[proud cobalt]

Oh yeah like all the other items lol. Whatever you come up with will probably be best. Better to have a page with accurate data then worry about little categories

[digital helm]

Still working at it. I'll push what I have tonight, and probably iterate on it

[digital helm]

Food page updated https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Food still some work to be done with poison, sickness and unhappiness

[proud cobalt]

Looks good. Categories seem logical nothing out of place at a glance

[rotund echo]

As you may know for every company and business known to man, they will only take action if their finances or public image are threatened!

[naive imp]

I think so. Just be sure to clarify that its unconfirmed by TIS

[naive imp]

I'd say go ahead, we can ping you for a revision once its updated

[naive imp]

So what you're saying is we gotta hack them got iti

(For legal reasons thats a joke)

[languid kayak]

Can we make exception to put evolved recipe either at the top of bottom? They differ enough IMO

[gloomy glen]

Yes, pls

[snow rivet]

I've never bothered to think of proper wording to add it myself, but
I do find it odd that neither https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Skill or https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Weapon
mention the range bonus melee weapons get at level 7, despite talking about the +dmg bonuses in detail

[languid kayak]

No plans to touch it immediately, but that page will need rework down the line, like all skill pages 😩

[languid kayak]

I'd say it's coincidence really?

[gloomy glen]

I know!! Aiming especially changed so much 😭

[digital helm]

The one on my user page was just each table combined in no particular order.
I've kept the existing order on the actual food page. Let me know if any issues with that #pzwiki_editing message

[naive imp]

Do you honestly think people are gonna fall for this shit or even remotely give a fuck? Genuine question.

Eh its probably a bot. No point I guess

[sturdy tangle]

Regarding post in 42 chat:
SurvivorCache1
SurvivorCache2
SurvivorCacheBigBuilding

All found in the loot tables for Chair Leg, Antique Table Leg, Antique Table Leg Chained and presumably other derivative recipes.

Haven’t seen any others like that yet.

[naive imp]

Can you please explain in more detail what exactly you're referring to? That chat moves quickly and its difficult to find what you just described.

[sturdy tangle]

Sorry, I mentioned the above loot tables and @proud cobalt asked me to post it here so he could correct them. I guess I thought he’d be looking for it so I didn’t @ him.

[naive imp]

All good

[proud cobalt]

Thank you, i have added them to the blacklist they should no longer be linked. Let me know if you see any more 😄

[rotund echo]

Sorry to ping you like this, but is this the complete list of ransack-able buildings or is there more?

Also, is this room definitions like those I can see on the b42map.com or is there some building def that I can't see?

[rotund echo]

What is a SurvivorCacheBigBuilding?

[lucid junco]

Uuuh

Maybe?

[rotund echo]

Yeah I'm wondering if it only targets those buildings or applies to every building that has fewer rooms than what is set for the "maximum looted building rooms" (default is 50)

[proud cobalt]

It's a roomdef for loot. Likely a dynamic one

[rotund echo]

I feel like the reality is the latter

[lucid junco]

It applies to every building with these rooms iirc

Houses cant be looted in this case

Don't take my word for it tho

Check it yourself

[rotund echo]

Yeah... I'm considering hitting up the lesser Louisville checkpoints and I'm wondering if it falls under the ransack building thing

because I'm gonna be so mad if they're still somehow ransacked

[rotund echo]

I've seen many houses get ransacked

I wonder if its a separate building story at work

[lucid junco]

And ping @quartz bear to ask for specifics of Looted and Trashed building story

Cause uuh, java coding is gibberish for me

[quartz bear]

Not home won't be home until weekend

[rotund echo]

What I have been led to believe is that everything that has a roomdef and smaller than what is defined as "too large" has the possibility be ransacked

[lucid junco]

Alr, will ping you 20th 00:00:00

[lucid junco]

There is also a too small building

[rotund echo]

This is like, one-room only buildings?

[lucid junco]

.

[lucid junco]

Maybe

[languid kayak]

For context to those wondering, as I took some time to track the message, it just seems they were linking to PZmap while they don't spawn outside of survivor caches and stuff 🙂

[proud cobalt]

#pz_b42_chat message

Trying not to link to room defs that don't exist on the map

[languid kayak]

@lucid junco is this really a new look for Judge Matt Hass? If so, it's widely different. Looks more like reverend/pastor. https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Judge_Matt_Hass.png

Also, it's not yours, but I wonder whether the creator Mathas used a Judge in his nickname too? https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Judge_Matt_Hass&diff=prev&oldid=1095191

[lucid junco]

It is

I was kinda surprised

But thats him

Maybe the robe that makes him look like pastor

But robe is common for judges

And he is a judge with court studio set

[languid kayak]

But yeah, Judge's robe it seems just without any ornaments or distinctive features it seems weird ;D

Also a huge change to what we had before

(though I think under that it's the same, as facial features were not included in our old shots so it was just random)

[lucid junco]

He has essentially a new outfit