pzwiki_editing

[rare sand]

i still dunno yow to get rid of it

[rotund echo]

Channels and roles, take off editing wiki role

[languid kayak]

Without seeing the following discussion yet, I'd say yes? I think we had some discssion about them and I (red)linked them in a few places

The names are on the spawning map

relevant discussion were somewhere around here I think? ^

and the one I'd think is Shubert's Estate; maybe @thin cloud can confirm? https://b42map.com/?1635x5764

as in official merchandise? Not really. From the official ones there were Spiffos that are listed here: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Spiffo#Official_merchandise but these are no longer available too

[gritty mason]

no, the question was meant as in-zomboid

[languid kayak]

ah 😄

[digital helm]

I think you linked the wrong coords. The lodge by the lake is the blue dot, and the red dot (centre of the label) is here https://b42map.com/?1743x8640

[languid kayak]

Ithibk that's where confusion comes from? Also what Toadstars's post #pzwiki_editing message

from what I looked baxk there, people refer to this house as Shubert's too

[digital helm]

Yeah, the lake compound is definitely the more prominent location imo, but it looks like the label is probably referring to the house

unless it's the entire area, and all the houses are included

[rotund echo]

Ngl I don't think I've ever seen TIS name drop any random farm in the map, I think it most likely refers to the lake compound area

[digital helm]

I agree. But without something definitive, we're just speculating

[thin cloud]

Entire area I would guess

The mappers did this one though not me

[digital helm]

Thanks! Probably safest to assume the area with a note that it's 'assumed' to be the area. @rotund echo @naive imp i.e. "the lake house in Schubert's Estate"

[rotund echo]

It seems peculiar that this Schubert guy owns all these properties in his one "Estate" but ok

Hmm, Aiming III and Reloading III apparently spawns in university libraries

I tried to find the higher tier Aim/Reload books but to no avail

[rotund echo]

Yeah it spawns with MilitaryHistory books lol

Meh, why no Aiming IV or V

[naive imp]

I'm not sure we need this page? https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Radio_relay_station

The location isn't marked and there's no loot, but I do know some people like to use them as bases?

I updated it to formatting for now bur what do yall think?

[flint vapor]

@digital helm oh shit that's really fucking cool
https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Keyboard&curid=131873&diff=1117395&oldid=1058533

I did not knew at all about that

Ah ... the note cuts codeblocks, fuck

Any idea how I can fix that ?

[languid kayak]

it was merged from the individual relay stations, I think it's similar to https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Army_barracks (which in the end turned out not always to be army)

[naive imp]

Oh I forgot about that page. Yeah that page needs a second look also.

[digital helm]

I think it's worth keeping. Even if just to say there's nothing at these locations. People may see them on the map or in-game, then go to the wiki to see if there's anything special about them.

[naive imp]

People like to use them as bases too so I put a Lil bit of that in there

I don't think it's hurting anything

[digital helm]

It was originally only used for logos, like on the main page. But seems useful for any image

[flint vapor]

Yea that's cool

[digital helm]

logo-light is the opposite. I.e. convert dark image to light image

[digital helm]

No idea off the top of my head. What type of code block is it using? pre, syntaxhighlight or just the class?

Or do you have an example?

one that I can look at I mean

[flint vapor]

the class

It's just a CodeSnip inside a Note

Can't scroll to the right, it doesn't detect the width limit I suppose

I reorganized this part to not have to use a note

[digital helm]

Seems to be caused by the mbox template. But I'm not sure of a fix without modifying that. Which I'm hesitant to do because it's used on just about every page

[naive imp]

Would break a LOT of shit

[digital helm]

Yeah. It's also a CSS template so harder to test/modify, and I didn't make it 😄

I changed the link in the navbox so we could see what actually links to Axe, but it looks like it's heavily cached, so won't update until each of those pages are edited https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Special:WhatLinksHere/Axe&limit=500

[languid kayak]

Thanks! Could have done that before too, as it indeeds take a while lol

[digital helm]

I did that yesterday though...

Although there would be something like 4000+ pages, so maybe just taking a REALLY long time? 🤔

[languid kayak]

There was one more link there: https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Template:Navbox_items&diff=prev&oldid=1117671

[digital helm]

😮‍💨 thank you

[languid kayak]

Slowly going down 😄 https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Special:WhatLinksHere/Axe&limit=5000

[digital helm]

That's a relief

[proud cobalt]

<@&1205891296565268520> Last chance to have your say on the future of the wiki! Less than 12 hours before the survey closes.

https://forms.gle/fzNgTMf98R4GG8To8

[ruby parrot]

yeah, no, i wont be loggign into it using google, no thanks

[proud cobalt]

Ok

[flint vapor]

This guy is still around ?

[still mulch]

[solar aurora]

We need normal documentation from the developers for mod developers, which they promised in the 42nd build, but it’s still not there!

Now the Zomboid API looks like just Java sources

It’s from the category of «take it and figure it out yourself»

I think everyone who somehow made modifications for this game or tried to make them will agree with me

[flat sun]

agreed but that doesn't have much to do with the wiki 😅

[naive imp]

@languid kayak @digital helm shouldn't we retire VibranceBot, per the bot policy? (An VaileasysBot and FaalagornBot too, technically?) Am I allowed to do that or do only beareucrats (the fuck do you spell that?) Have that permission?

[naive imp]

@lucid junco on this page, is there some kind of indicator that the stores that have no visible logo are actually part of the chains you listed them as? Maybe I missed it? https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Pondview_Shopping_Center

Typically the policy is that if a store has no visible logo or other clear marker like a specific roomdef and its not overly important like a pawn shop or gun store it doesn't get a dedicated page

[gloomy glen]

Hi, there are some inconsistencies in format between the skill pages. Nothing important tbh, all cosmetic like skillbooks being some a table and other icons with the name, occupations before/after traits, and others that are literally unimportant. I'm translating and trying to keep the same format between skills, and since I'm on it idk if you'd like me to change to one format the English pages? I insist, it's purely cosmetic and I doubt many will notice

[naive imp]

Yo dope cat. Fellow cat lover here. Anyway, especially with build 42 out the skill pages are in need of updates most likely.

Personally I'd think a table would be the best way to go. What do you think @digital helm @proud cobalt?

[naive imp]

Might want to talk to @flint vapor about that, he's the modding project leader

Maybe they can cook up something for ya

[flint vapor]

I mean, I can't do more than what I'm already doing lmao

But the reason I'm doing all of this is that it is clear the devs will not document it themselves, and I won't give my opinion on that lmao

[naive imp]

🤐

Lol

[flint vapor]

Yea I was going to give my full breakdown of how documentation was before and that was going to get salty lol

[naive imp]

I saw you was typing and was like oh no what did I start

[flint vapor]

Yea I realized this wasn't the place nor the moment 😂

[digital helm]

We should. You can update it in the list, so feel free. Only bureaucrat can remove the actual bot right though, which I can do later. VaileasysBot last ran just this weekend 😄 not sure about Faalagorn's

[digital helm]

Like ThinkDock said, most of them seem to still be for b41, so will need an update at some point.
I'd also say to go with a table. Feel free update the layout.

[naive imp]

Oh, am slow

I'll update it

[proud cobalt]

That's not up to the wiki

[proud cobalt]

Should be standardized soon, they are still B41

Survey is now closed, i will format the data for the review

[naive imp]

Yeah hopefully one of us gets some time for them. I'm still busy with locations.

Will be for at absolute minimum another 6 months

Once all these b42 towns are done the 41 ones should he fairly easy.

[lucid junco]

Its in the flyer

[rotund echo]

Since I have now been able to make swords, I went ahead and added content to the https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Sword page

I can also do it for the machete, shortsword, and even the metalworking page

[naive imp]

For the pondview center? I don't see one? Unless I looked in the wrong spot. Lemme double check

Ahhhh ok it wasn't on the page, that's why. I'll add it on there

I thought we added them all to their respective pages already

Thanks

[languid kayak]

321 links

[digital helm]

Should be able to bot the rest

Imagine if we added links to every changelog 😄 https://pzwiki.net/wiki/0.2.0a

[languid kayak]

I was wondering that myself

foe new changelogs I'm not adding links at all, but the old ones had it so I left it

I still have to go through the old changelogs to unify headers (not sure if it's bottable; so is splitting)

[lament hazel]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1281341837742968903/1404390129509994536/image.png?ex=689b03bb&is=6899b23b&hm=0b7eeb25c1a49a3c08a10813ca25a8da8b20fa1ec40451fb93b07a969206fd65&

unused item (SugarBeetSugarPot), the recipes for it are commented out. (And it has no entries in the translation file.. oddly, 'rice' is the correct name for it.. according to the data files)

Page https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Sugar_(tag)

[digital helm]

That rice page is a little messed up. I'll fix that up

Base.Rice
Base.SugarBeetPulpPot
Base.SugarBeetSyrupPot
Base.SugarBeetSugarPot
Base.RicePanCopper
Base.RicePotForged

[lament hazel]

yea. none of those are in-use item (the sugerbeet) and all their recipes are commented out

[digital helm]

This whole rice and pasta business now is really confusing... We have the raw rice and pasta, we have them in pots and pans of water, we have the evolved recipes, and now we have the copper and forged variants. Then adding these sugar beet variants on top (which seem to just be placeholder) @proud cobalt

[digital helm]

Placeholder page created for those sugar beet variants. So they don't break the rice page https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Rice_(sugar_beet)

[proud cobalt]

Yeah i didn't want to do them yet because of that. I didn't realise we were automatically assigning them to infoboxes. I assume by name?

[digital helm]

The new infobox does it automatically. Maybe I should have it ask first

[rotund echo]

I expanded the Metalworking page a bit, particularly in the guide

I think it will need more working though

But generally I have found out that the most intimidating looking parts of building the Advanced Forge are just the bellows and anvil

Actually grinding the metalworking skill just forces you to chop a lot of trees down and wreck a bunch of ruined cars

[digital helm]

I noticed. Only skimmed through , but it looks good

Wouldn't be surprised if it all changed 😄

[rotund echo]

I can't speak from a starting from scratch as I had pretty big headstarts on the process because of Carpenter + Blacksmith Knowledge xD

But yeah at least here's a wiki editor who kinda knows what he's doing when it comes to metalworking now...

[digital helm]

I've added pasta and rice disambig pages, largely just to help us take a closer look at them later https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Rice_(disambiguation) https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Pasta_(disambiguation)

[digital helm]

Maintenance list for animals added https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Animal_list. These will be added to the animal page in some form eventually

[digital helm]

I've added the CSS class highlight-target which will highlight the content when it's the target of a link. Added to highlight the footnote that was linked to for this template https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Footnote

It doesn't have a type selector so it can be used for any html element.
E.g.

<span class="highlight-target" id="example">Highlighted text</span>

This will be highlighted when targeted with an anchor Page_Name#example

[languid kayak]

yay! Now https://pzwiki.net/wiki/User:Faalagorn/Animal_icons won't be needed for them not to appear unused 😄

[proud cobalt]

Name: Gray Baby Raccoon (Kit)
ID: grey
😐 British devs making an American game

[digital helm]

Me naming my variables

[naive imp]

Wronglish

[tulip kiln]

I might give the street names page a bit of a go. https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Street_names should I just get rid of all these coordinates?

They aren't applicable anymore I'd say since most of these streets don't have exact coordinates.

[rotund echo]

I wonder if we should make articles on more roads xD

At least more interesting or major roads

[proud cobalt]

A link to coordinates on that road doesn't hurt

But definitely only one page we're not doing every road

[proud cobalt]

We already have some for major roads
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Dixie_Highway

[tulip kiln]

yeah, it makes sense to have a page for shit like Dixie Highway (which we already have)

since it's significant enough

[proud cobalt]

Yeah i wouldn't be fond on a page for pretty much anything below Dixie Hwy

[tulip kiln]

yeah, we're obsessive nerds, but not to that extent.

[rotund echo]

does anyone here know if the Louisville checkpoints can be pre-looted o.O

you know, by offscreen survivors

might be good to add on the exclusion zone border page if they are exempt from being ransacked

[serene sage]

imagine killing thousands of zeds for literally nothing

[tulip kiln]

@proud cobalt Has ur interactive map been updated for the new street names that came out last patch or nah?

If not, I can just check em ingame

[tulip kiln]

Best I can do is a couple of empty mags for a gun that you don't have.

[proud cobalt]

Yeah it's 42.11

https://b42map.com/streets

[serene sage]

no clue how the invisible maraudering meta survivors got through the crowd and took literally everything of value though

[rotund echo]

Me visiting Ready Prep be like:

[tulip kiln]

a bunch of skyrim stealth archers snuck in obviously

[proud cobalt]

Have a look at Louisville

[rotund echo]

And you can't hunt down their survivor too

[rotund echo]

Do you know about Tall Fence Street bro 😭

That's where the professional fence thumpers live

[serene sage]

fed into the all-consuming void

or maybe the Ohio river

same thing

[tulip kiln]

oh fuck, I've just realised this page is gonna cause some arguments lol

we're gonna have a lot of discussions about whether a specific street is part of a city or not.

We already had that with scenic grove

[rotund echo]

But ok, what about the LV checkpoints though 😭

Does anyone know if they can't be pre-looted or have some special status, because the only gun troves in Louisville that I am sure are safe from offscreen people are the Louisville PD and Stars & Stripes

[serene sage]

um acktually if you refer to the 1885 Brandenburg Administrative Division Code, Section 2.1, Subsection 123.c, Paragraph 2, Sentence 4 it clearly shows the town border to be 2.1398 feet south of where you claim it is, making the road 0.0012% more within the town territory, so it should be a road in Brandenburg

[proud cobalt]

Have no idea how it works, likely a better question for #pz_b42_chat

[rotund echo]

They're stumped too

[tulip kiln]

ohhh this is gonna be fun lmao

So you'd think Riverside Road is in Riverside, right?

It isn't

[serene sage]

false advertising

how can they get away with this

[rotund echo]

Someone said the tents can't be looted because they have no doors or windows in the first place, but someone else said they got their tents at GU ransacked

[tulip kiln]

yeah, Riverside road starts near dixie and ends at a highway next to fallas lake

it isn't anywhere near Riverside basically

[rotund echo]

I think its more of a connection road for Riverside city though?

[serene sage]

maybe it's just a random road named after John Riverside, inventor of Riverside

[tulip kiln]

So I guess what we might have to do is have sections for streets in towns, sections for highways and main roads outside of towns

[tulip kiln]

well yeah but I'd still be hesistant on putting that under the riverside category

cause I think that should just be streets physically in riverside

[rotund echo]

That is true

[tulip kiln]

also while a highway is not a street, I don't think there should be a seperate page just for the highways

even though it is the street names page

[serene sage]

yeah the road does physically lead up to the town but for some reason the name changes to Olin for some reason

no wait

I can't read maps apparently nvm

[rotund echo]

Olin is the actual name of the road

[tulip kiln]

Nah, it leads onto the KY-163

Just past Fallas creek

[serene sage]

yeah it looked like a regular turn in the road from a distance

[rotund echo]

Its only around the bend after Otter Creek does it become Olin

[serene sage]

and then I supposed KY-163 turns into Olin road?

[tulip kiln]

yeah

[serene sage]

man I hate contiguous roads that change names halfway through

just name it one thing

[rotund echo]

There's technically two Waverly streets in Louisville xD

Even though it follows the exact same west-east span

[tulip kiln]

Just comparing it to ingame, it's actually missing a lot of the small streets names

so I'll just use ingames for now

[rotund echo]

Yeah its outdated

[serene sage]

oh really?

I was wondering where all the small street names were

[rotund echo]

Yeah esp. for lesser streets

[proud cobalt]

Hmm thanks for letting me know, maybe there was a file split i didnt know about between versions

[tulip kiln]

I gotta head out for a bit, nearly done with Muldraugh streets, this is gonna be a massive page.

thats all just muldraugh streets and thats still not all of em

[rotund echo]

Hah, try Louisville streets lmao

[proud cobalt]

Flag me any flyers that use the old street name and I'll pass them on

[tulip kiln]

Are we considering the railyard part of Muldraugh?

[proud cobalt]

I believe so
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Railyard_(Muldraugh)

[tulip kiln]

Cool, well get ready cause this is gonna be one bloated page lmao, this is all of the streets Muldraugh has alone, louisville is gonna be hell

[languid kayak]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:UI_Tick_Eng.png

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tick

[languid kayak]

Remind me not to be lazy and go through the new strings as a bug report on forums 😄 Used to do that pre-b42

[languid kayak]

I think they technically have coorinates we can pull out of xml file now?

[languid kayak]

May not be a bad idea, though shitton of extra work

[proud cobalt]

Lol Tick is the en-uk version of checkmark

Common in Aus

[languid kayak]

would be interesting yeah, but let us finish what we started first 😄

[languid kayak]

Isn't it Zomboid in a nutshell?

[languid kayak]

They smeared themselves with zombie guts

[tulip kiln]

imo, it wouldn't be a good idea. Not due to the extra work, but it'd just be unneccesary waste. A lot of the roads are just roads, not much else to em.

[languid kayak]

Jokes aside, I think we never carried on with the new lore NPC names from books and the character voices from the creator corresponsing the pictures we have since b41 😄

[languid kayak]

The question is, will the flyers be changed or the road names 😄

[languid kayak]

You could list all the houses and loot inside, but that'd be something pzmap should take care if at all really.

[tulip kiln]

thankfully march ridge is super easy since there isnt that many streets

[rotund echo]

Where is my Farnly Road

Or Tall Fence Street bro

[flint vapor]

?

[rotund echo]

Not my SS, but here it is

[flint vapor]

Uh

[digital helm]

Next you'll be telling me this isn't a cross https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Emotes_no.png

Spiffo?

[flint vapor]

What are those lol

[digital helm]

Raccoons using the colour palette from the spiffo plush

[naive imp]

Agreed. There's no need to document every single street. We're in over our heads as it is.

[naive imp]

I would call it an "X" but both are correct

[vapid walrus]

The loot is random

The best they could do is say what loot spawnes are in the house

(1 residents tall book case)
(2 residents house metal shelves)
1 residents garage metal cabinet

Also is there a way I can view all farm animals spawns/zones

[thin cloud]

Try writing em!

[naive imp]

That would be utterly ludicrous. We're really gonna list EVERY house in the game?

[languid kayak]

I fixed duplicate argument, but is it supposed to have 2 model parameters? https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Rice_(crafted_pot)&diff=1117929&oldid=1117787

[languid kayak]

more like count, but still we're probably skipping streets for now 😄

[naive imp]

That's still utterly unnecessary. Are we gonna have a page for every street that says "there are x houses"?

We have FAR bigger fish to fry atm

We don't have to document literally everything

[naive imp]

The one thing I'd ask an AI to do

[thin cloud]

Not a chance, this is the fun stuff, if you don't think so you shouldn't write games

[languid kayak]

yup, so basically theorizing/planning for the future that won't come 😄

Though the big strees will stay still. Maybe we'll make some more prominent ones at most.

[serene sage]

haha how funny

<@&671452400221159444>

[woven portal]

tbh if we replace pat wirh ai itll change nothing

[thin cloud]

Each boring word and em dash of mine is wrought from my very soul

[woven portal]

pat still hasnt written an epic about me

[thin cloud]

I misplaced my pen

[woven portal]

which is the test for zomboid writers

[woven portal]

i am about to see you irl

so really think about it

[serene sage]

the Frogski epic should be the new tagline for the game tbh

"This is how you died" is kinda dated now

[woven portal]

pat knows better than not write a beautiful story

[languid kayak]

@digital helm is the https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Skill_book#Variants autogenerated? It has Sewing Pattern with -1 page

[languid kayak]

Jokes on you, the TVs still use the pathethic -

[thin cloud]

New phone who dis

[digital helm]

-1 is the game's default. So looks like this got caught up in skill books instead of recipe magazines

[digital helm]

Yeah. 1 for normal cooking pot, 1 for forged

Crafted is related to the food rather than the pot. Could maybe think of a different descriptor to avoid that?

[naive imp]

I wouldn't find coming up with 8 million street names particularly fun. Just about everything else would be I'd assume

But hey if you enjoy it more power to ya

[flint vapor]

Yea there's definitely a lot of different stuff you can do that are also "fun"

And yea if you enjoy it, good for you, but it's not because someone doesn't enjoy finding street names that they don't enjoy writing games

[thin cloud]

Like 90% of it is the boring stuff like that though. Item descriptions, flavour text, character bios. It's how you build a world. None of it is unimportant. All have their own way of storytelling.

[rotund echo]

I can't believe Patrick will lose his job to ChatGPT 😭

[digital helm]

Not really, unfortunately. We were discussing spawn zones just the other day. I'm hoping to get some better info up by the end of the month, but for now, this is a complete list of animals https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Animal_list (only added a couple days ago). This is a wiki maintenance list so it's only names and icons

[languid kayak]

Can't check how it is in game right now, but I believe https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Noxious_Smell should be moved to sentence case like it is in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Moodle#Noxious_smell right? Similar to https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Has_a_cold for example

[digital helm]

Probably. Noxious Smell isn't a player facing term. It's an id name NoxiousSmell, same as HasACold

[languid kayak]

Aren't we using the first stage name for other moodles though?

[digital helm]

If we are, I don't think we should.
Here's the first stage for unhappy:
Having a hard time lately. Seek some way to forget your troubles.

nope, that's the description 😅

You get the point though:
Hungry: Peckish
Bored: Getting Bored
Has a cold: Runny Nose

[proud cobalt]

They should be redirects though

[proud cobalt]

I'm conflicted on the obtaining section, particularly loot. I do understand the obstruction of the table the way it is. Roomdefs are not player friendly, but they are what the game uses to define where things can spawn. Anything we write in addition to the loot table can be made false at any time especially during unstable, and it's already been proven that it's really hard for us to track and update written text with our resources.

[flat sun]

agreed that anything non-automated is not really viable

[languid kayak]

Technically it could be automated, based on some patterns, but that's so much hassle to do right… And then confuse people about (not) editing it

[digital helm]

I've been trying to think of something too. I feel like you've already done a really good job at making it as user friendly as possible, given how complex the loot system is.
If we can somehow make a connection between a roomdef and an actual location, that'd at least improve it. But I've got no ideas that aren't manual

[naive imp]

Disagree. I feel we rely too much on automation, as someone who leads the only section effectively unable to be automated

[naive imp]

That's what the version notice is for.

[naive imp]

Being brutally honest, we don't have a choice. If we're going to do what the community wants, we have to go manual. Good news, the automated edits have laid the framework. All we have to do is explain in a more user friendly way.

I will make a sandbox page right now.

I dont think it's as hard as we think it is.

All we have to do is elaborate on the table in a way users will understand.

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/User:ThinkDock1721/sandbox

See the loot section in this page. It doesn't have to be overly long. Think of the way I describe locations. There is x and x and x here.

That's it. Nothing overcomplicated, and it provides a clear, concise, and user friendly explanation to all readers that have basic English proficiency.

Will it be held back by manual input? Yes. But that's why we need to get rid of all these variant pages and consolidate what we have into less pages that are more content-rich, and ideally, additional categories so that we can track them easier. It's not like we have to add 5 whole paragraphs to each article

Ex.

Category:axe weapons
Category:melee weapons
Category:Long Blunt weapon s
Category:Short Blade weapons
Category:Knives

Then if unstable nerfs or changes a branch of weapons we have em all in a Category and can apply changes as needed

Ultimately, if we are to please the community we have no choice but to incorporate manual edits and this is imo the best way to do it

Open to feedback as always 😀

[proud cobalt]

Now do that on 4,500 pages and make sure each one is accurate every unstable build

[naive imp]

We cleared out almost 2500 autogenerated articles in less than a month with most of the info already being there. I don't see how this is any different.

That was all manual

Why can't we write 4 or 5 sentences and effectively do the same thing?

The table is already there. Just gotta explain it.

Will it be laborious? Yes. But this is why I said from day one these 800 variant pages are going to be an issue

We should consolidate them as much we can to diminish the workload.

[proud cobalt]

Theres only so much merging you can do

You cant merge sledgehammer and axe together

[naive imp]

Do we really need two separate pages for red and black game pieces?

For black and tinted color clothing?

Etc etc

I don't think we do.

[proud cobalt]

I think there's less of that than you think

[naive imp]

I never said there was a specific amount of it. Point is less work is less work.

[proud cobalt]

Merging them is actually significantly more work

There's all kinds of reasons why

[naive imp]

List the most pressing ones off the top of your head

[proud cobalt]

Templates

Loot

Infoboxes

[naive imp]

Come on. An item being red means we need a WHOLE separate infobox and loot table?

[proud cobalt]

The items are split in game because they have different stats or different spawning data

[proud cobalt]

This has been changed in b42

Items can have multiple icons and models in b42

Game pieces is just one that hasn't been done yet

[naive imp]

Couldn't we list then as different, but keep it in one page, utilizing subheadings and other formatting as needed? The work may be about the same but it's less overall pages to manage

Ex:

Loot
===Red game pieces===
Fjdudbxjndjd
===black game pieces===
Fjidbxhdhd

[naive imp]

That's what a gallery can be used for

[proud cobalt]

??

[naive imp]

Also can put other models, etc in the infobox as clickable elements

[proud cobalt]

I think youre misunderstanding

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Shirt_-_Denim

This is one item, it has 3 icons and 3 models now

In b41 this would have to be 3 items

So colour variants arent really a thing in B42

If they do exist, they exist because either the stats are different or the spawning is specifically different

[naive imp]

So what you're saying is that the variants are in their own separate pages because of primarily spawning, stats, or other useful criteria, for clarity.

[proud cobalt]

No in game

The game pieces example you're using is because in B41 they would have to be separate items, in b42 that's not the case

[naive imp]

So these variants that have statistical Stat differences, for example. Are they all in one page? Or do the Stat differences make it in a separate page entirely? Forgive me if this is Elementary, in a sense, I'm just trying to understand.

On the wiki

[proud cobalt]

Previously we only had the capabilities to keep things updated for the first item id in the infobox, and in B41 even just icon changes had to be a separate item ID. That's why things were split, because it made less work for us to upkeep the articles. Now we have the capabilities (for infoboxes only) to handle multiple item IDs. So we can merge back some pages that even have some basic stat changes like weight or colour variants. The game pieces article could have been merged months ago.

The issue arises when you get to more complicated items, with different spawning mechanics, different stats, etc. On the surface it may look like its just a different colour but it's not

We're working on being able to handle more IDs for more templates and having more page based templates but like i said it is a LOT more work than having separate pages for each like we do currently

[naive imp]

I see. It seems we see eye to eye on the actual issue but are being held back by technical work. I apologize if my jump to conclusions were perceived as an attack. That was not their intention.

I wish we had a way to automate the explanation idea I proposed

[digital helm]

I'm with you ThinkDock, we all want the same thing, but we have technical limitations.

The ones I'm stuck on the most are the containers. We have different bandoliers for example that spawn in different places and with different contents.
Duffel bags are the worst for this. Spawn locations, contents and colours

[proud cobalt]

To be totally honest i would love to write a few sentences for each loot section, it's the simplest solution. I'm not against it. I just hate wasted work.

[proud cobalt]

I'm totally with you on pages like game pieces, the work just has to be done now to merge them

[digital helm]

As we evolve our tools though it may become more practical to do more manually. Such as tracking changes better

[proud cobalt]

Also i don't see it as an attack, discussion is good. We all want the best for the users.

[naive imp]

This is why I mentioned categories. That way of something is discovered bam they're all right there

Update em all without having to chase them through the wiki and inevitably miss anything

[naive imp]

I apologize. I get self conscious

[naive imp]

We can make a general "duffel bag" page and have headings and subheadings

[proud cobalt]

That's the major concern, it's not distant memory from when Vail's loot sections were done by hand and lost to time. They were accurate when he wrote them in 2018. Issue is it was 2024

[proud cobalt]

It's all good man

[naive imp]

Ex.

Duffel bag
==loot==
===doctor bag===
uh-huh riff
===duffel bag (book)===
Jfhrbdjfh
===stash bag===
Bfjrjdjrjj

It's a lot of work initially but is simple, easy to change later, and means that most of the work is taken to set it up, with maintenance being less of an issue

[naive imp]

Thank you

[digital helm]

I think this is messy and makes it harder to navigate than having a separate page. There's something like 20 different Duffel bags.
Have a separate section for this particular variant several times on page gets messy quickly

This was largely the reason I split vehicles by variants. We were starting to have sections like this in several sections of the article

[naive imp]

Curious about how it's messy. Sure it's long, but it's organized fairly well and with a good TOC it's better than having to maintain 20 separate pages when you can just edit one.

At least in my opinion

Maybe something we should ask during the review?

I think the voice of the community matters a lot on that one.

[rotund echo]

Should forged versions of tools be combined with the regular version?

Like, we have a "Base.Machete" and a "Base.MacheteForged"

Two different articles for the same end product!

[digital helm]

That's exactly what we're discussing. Crafting is another one

[naive imp]

In my opinion, they should be combined if possible because the infobox can handle both id's

But obviously only if stats are similar

[rotund echo]

What is different from a Base.Machete and Base.MacheteForged other than means of acquisition? Nothing 🤣

[naive imp]

I admittedly have not looked into that yet

[rotund echo]

They're not similar, they're the exact same

[naive imp]

The multiple models and id's can be handled in one page.

[naive imp]

Then I say just have one "machete" page and have a section of "obaining" that states that the item can be crafted, and then have the recipe table

For the forged one

[rotund echo]

Yeah that's what I was thinking

[rotund echo]

We do, actually

Ah, well, for the forged version

[digital helm]

I'd argue what's the difference between clicking a link to section for the variant you want on the same page and clicking a link to a separate page that only has info for the variant you want.
Editing would be the same, no? You'd have to look over all the info just the same.

I'm not saying I'm for separate pages, I'm arguing that there's also benefit to having a separate page when you end up splitting by section

[naive imp]

I would say why overcomplicate it with a second page if a section is enough?

Because then that's more pages to maintain

[proud cobalt]

The means of acquisition is what's different. That's what i mentioned before about working on our capabilities to be able to merge these. That's the whole lot of work @digital helm and I have been doing

[naive imp]

I'd rather maintain less pages than more

Even if those pages were more content dense of average

*on

[rotund echo]

Though really, who cares if it is a Base.MacheteForged instead of a Base.Machete, as long as the end product is virtually the exact same (stats and tags), we should merge them

[proud cobalt]

Who's verifying every item for that though

[rotund echo]

I never really pay attention between the looted version or the forged version anyway when in the game

[proud cobalt]

For just the machete, we have to be able to handle the Infobox, condition, crafting (usage), research recipes, crafting (obtaining), loot, history, code

[naive imp]

I would agree with this take to an extent. Sometimes we get tripped up over minor things but not everything is as minor as it may seem

[naive imp]

Well if both items are identical other than tag and models and other stuff the infobox can handle, why not just have one page if it's technically accurate for both?

[proud cobalt]

Someone has to take the time to verify that they are the EXACT same, that means they work the exact same in the scripts code, lua, and java. Can they both be used to cut bushes? The work to create a new page before this happens is ctrl-c, ctrl-v, save page. That's the difference in work

[naive imp]

The only issue I see is code and history. But codeboxes are collapsible

[proud cobalt]

How do you know they both work the same in java?

[digital helm]

I'd say it varies, in some cases it may be less complicated, such as if there's only a few variants, but if you have several sections that have the same several subsections, is a separate page not more beneficial and easier to read?

[proud cobalt]

Right but history isn't, someone has to do the work to come up with a design for having multiple history boxes on one page, then someone has to implement it. You see the work that has to be done still right?

[naive imp]

You could make an argument for that but I think it majorly comes down to individual opinion.

Because I think the opposite

I would rather read it all in one page instead of having to click through multiple

I think the PZWiki review will be very helpful in deciding this.

[proud cobalt]

I think the issue is implementation for editors not users

[naive imp]

At the end of the day, it's the readers who will be reading the pages

We should involve them

[digital helm]

But the editors editing the pages

[naive imp]

Yes that's also very important. We do need to have it be intuitive and easy enough to change and also not take a massive amount of time

[digital helm]

Been thinking about better ways to help get more people to edit. That would help a lot with all of this

[naive imp]

But in my opinion, catering to one too extremely will be at the other's detriment

We need to to find a middle ground

[digital helm]

Right now we spend most of our time actually contributing, rather than maintaining and listing what needs work

[naive imp]

I thought that reddit post would help. Goose egg

[digital helm]

And it did

[naive imp]

Got like 4k views and what 70 up votes? And like 20 comments

[digital helm]

More of that is always good

[naive imp]

But at what point are we spamming the subreddit?

But we really DO NEED THEM urgently

[rotund echo]

It still is a pretty niche thing though, how many people do you think are on the spectrum, obsessed with specifically Zomboid, so much so they edit the pzwiki.net out of their own will?

Then again, what they put on the wiki also has to be true, not based on common myths, nor clouded by personal biases or judgment

[digital helm]

Also mods, which is a common issue, and probably contributes to why people don't edit

[rotund echo]

I play pretty much vanilla, so you can count on me xD

Though my main job on the pzwiki.net, is to well, spread my knowledges on the game, and to have that knowledge and the content to put in the article.... I need to play the game lmao

[languid kayak]

I think the problem is the sheer amount of items and no workforce to do so atm. Can laid some rules/groundwork gor later during review month, but currently even the usage section proved to be problematic, so we'll see

[languid kayak]

duffle bags annoy me too, that and clothing lol

but yeah, clothing'sat least somewhat improved

[naive imp]

That's the thing. It's just us admins really and like 4 other people consistently active

Toadstars, Mid, sharpgolden, and SirDoggyJvla

[rotund echo]

Ain't no way you are adding content to all those pages without wasting hours upon hours of your lives

[languid kayak]

defo a thing to discuss what to merge on the review month

[naive imp]

I wouldn't say wasted but yeah time consuming

All them locations weren't done overnight

[rotund echo]

And to be accurate beyond surface level remarks, you gotta play

[naive imp]

What are you insinuating my friend 🤔

[rotund echo]

I'm just saying, its not exactly easy to get content or knowledge to put on the pages

Esp. for location pages or strategy sections

Or the performance of a weapon

[naive imp]

Very true. You gotta play the game to know the game right

[languid kayak]

that was a problem for vehicle parts kinda. Hate them split but way easier to maintain i guess

[naive imp]

I mean anyone can say hey there's guns in the gun store

[rotund echo]

That's true

[naive imp]

But to give tips on the whole area you gotta basically clear the whole town

[rotund echo]

But say, "how to kill Guns Unlimited" is a different story

[naive imp]

True

[naive imp]

That's another thing I really don't like because it feels like most of the stuff there is the same besides some numbers

It just kinda feels bloated

But that is the easiest way to do it

[rotund echo]

https://tenor.com/view/взгляд-2000-ярдов-война-war-soldier-gif-3632617944134077161

I shot all of B41 West Point....

[naive imp]

I feel like we could have one page with like a table or something with all the stats and put the models in the infobox as clickable elements but tables are a fuckin MESS in the source editor

But I suppose automating changing values in an infobox in a few distinct pages is slightly easier? 🤔

Or would it be the same, just in a different format

Idk

It's 0304 I'm fried

[languid kayak]

we still progressed, got new layout, up-to-date info, visual edit, got modders on board. Got useful feedback too and review month to iron stuff and further lower the gap

[languid kayak]

but we don't have to keep two infoboxes and add code to them in script. And in case new parts get added, we can have them almost instantly on wiki

[languid kayak]

variants are helping imo. Next stop would be navboxes imo.

[naive imp]

Idk to me it seems so wasteful to have a whole separate page for a few Stat differences but if that's the easiest I suppose that's what we should do

[proud cobalt]

I have recently completed the parser handling multiple Ids for crafting. So we should be able to move to a more page based crafting automation rather than ID based.

[proud cobalt]

There is no plan to have seperate pages for a few Stat differences

[naive imp]

But the vehicle part pages are already made? Unless we merged them?

For old regular and performance?

[proud cobalt]

Short term VS long term goals based on technical capabilities.

[naive imp]

Right that's what I was thinking

I just ask a fuckload of questions

[languid kayak]

merging mightbe pita :D. But if all stuff would handle that, then I guess it'd be fine. Not sure if we manage to make a list of ehat to merge nezt month during revirew @proud cobalt ? What I'd also love is to cover all the missing IDs from item list if that's possible? Exxept tiles maybe

[proud cobalt]

It's all the little templates and edge cases that make this such a long process. We have to handle all of them or were risking giving the wrong information. We also have to handle how we are combining them, and how we present them. E.g. History is going to be an interesting one

[proud cobalt]

Mergins shouldn't be too bad when we're ready. For the most part it will be putting the item Id in the Infobox and running the bot

Preparing to merge is what will take the longest.
E.g. Preparing every template to be ready to handle and display multiple Ids might take months. But merging the Forged machete may be as simple as putting it as id2 in the Infobox

[languid kayak]

Good points, yeah. Then deleting the pages afterwards is simple once the bot handles it and since the pages are standardized even if there is some flavor text (usage), it's easy to merge.

[languid kayak]

For history, I guess it'd be two separate tables side-by-side

[proud cobalt]

History will need a better way like a toggle box. Some pages will need 8+ history boxes

It will likely require integrating into the parser

[languid kayak]

solving that would be beneficial though, as we currently don't cover removed items like Base.belt or I think old IDs like farming.

At least I think we don't? So if items get replaced/change ID they aren't included, right?

[proud cobalt]

They're counted as different items, but the old history is on the pages still

[languid kayak]

counted as different items, as in they have separate page?

We have these too: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Removed_items

But true, I see https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Broccoli#History has history up to ancient version, so I guess both ID works here?

But for belt there's two indeed https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Belt and https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Belt_(old)

I remember more items changing they purpse and main category so (almost?) all items with 2 in it are similar case

From the top of my head, I remember sugar mostly, but there was more at around B30-ish to B40

[proud cobalt]

As in they count as separate items in the game and thus the history parser.

[proud cobalt]

Belt is a different ID not just a different module

[languid kayak]

yeah, I touched two cases in one sentence 😄

as in items made obsolete=true and then often removed and the module name changes 😄

[tulip kiln]

god damn

trying to do the louisville streets is a hell nightmare

we should ban cities from having more than 5 streets, make it easier.

[rotund echo]

Break down Louisville into different pages, but then we also must define what each district covers xD

[tulip kiln]

nah not doing different pages just for street names

[rotund echo]

I mean, businesses too

[tulip kiln]

different sections I guess, but I don't think districts are an option cause we have no idea what area exactly they cover.

[tulip kiln]

this page is just for the street names

this isn't the LV page itself

street names for everywhere in the map

[rotund echo]

ooh yeah, I think you gonna want to break down LV into subheaders 😭

Don't forget my boy Tall Fence street (I never even went near this street before)

[tulip kiln]

Best I can do is making Industrial, Retail & Residental sections.

shit like that

might as well just upload the progress I've made thus far

[rotund echo]

Bourbon Way, Fifth Street, Lower Ridge Rd., and Farnly Rd. are all real Gs though xD

[rotund echo]

Today I actually found out that WWII helmet is an actual item in Zomboid...

[tulip kiln]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Street_names God my pics suck

hard to get a good pic of it ingame

[rotund echo]

Fix this NOW

[tulip kiln]

wat

[rotund echo]

The map is making the table squished like this

[tulip kiln]

It was fine for me

[rotund echo]

Maps look good though

[echo thistle]

I like the new wiki list, but wanted to ask if it's possible to add an "all item" tab?
I know it'll be massive an unwieldy, but I want to control-F to look for some things without having to leave a page

also, I can't seem to find a page that explains how the lighting mechanics work. is their one on the Wiki at the moment?

[flint vapor]

Sadly I think they can't no because like you said it's be massive and in fact the page will just not load or some shit

[flint vapor]

Nop, what do you want to know ?

[echo thistle]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Item_list
or just link at the top of the list would do would do

the only point would be just ctrl-f-ing for something though

[flint vapor]

I mean this works right ?

[echo thistle]

yeah, exactly what I was looking for

[flint vapor]

Didn't think they'd manage to render all the items, maybe they used Lua idk

I remember it not being possible and too heavy

[echo thistle]

for some reason, it doesnt turn up on normal searches because it's under site maintenance

The other thing was how light reacts to dark rooms in B42, the ranges of different sources

who knows? a random LV sign might be the brightest object in the universe

But that's an entire article though.

[flint vapor]

I don't even know if light reacts differently based on the objects

[echo thistle]

I mean range, rather

They might just be default though

but I swear I've seen LV store signs light up an entire parking lot

Actually, I realised because of the amount of normal lights, idk if these even produce any...

[languid kayak]

The https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Item_list is probably what you are looking for right now

[echo thistle]

that was it, yeah
it was classed as site maintenance so wasnt on the main search

[languid kayak]

yeah, we might move to Lua eventually, as the item list was too heavy to load as Doggy said

[languid kayak]

I think we don't have it really? There's https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Light_source but it only list items and https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Electricity but it lists nothing.

Sadly those basic pages explaining mechanics are not in the best shape at the moment

[echo thistle]

they dont mention light ranges, colour, weight, if movable, if generator/bat/enviro powered ect ect

[languid kayak]

and yeah, it was mostly a mainteneance page (and still is) but serves its purpose currently 😄

[echo thistle]

I believe there's an indepth fire guide somewhere....

[languid kayak]

Yeah, all those sadly suffer, similar to https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Noise

If you want to create a stub page, you can do so, not sure what the best name would be? Light? Though actual ranges require some digging in code/lua

[echo thistle]

hmm

I'd go Light (mechanic) (will be a nightmare lol)
list of light sources
Portable light sources
then a misc page of light topics like electrical, crafing material ect ect

[languid kayak]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Light is free 😄

I like to avoid paranthese if possible

[echo thistle]

i can write up some really messy paragraphs if you want that's essentially just

[flint vapor]

https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Lighting&action=edit

Sounds better

[echo thistle]

It is known that this building is called Cabooses cool loot stash

[flint vapor]

Wait you want to list lights ?

Wtf

[flat sun]

the light properties are probably set in the tiledef so it could probably be added to the tile pages

[echo thistle]

https://tenor.com/view/too-bright-overwhelming-glow-make-it-stop-hurt-light-scream-reaction-gif-12475821297860780622

I didnt know that a car with a functional battery can act as a light source for example

or a TV

[flint vapor]

What ?

[echo thistle]

if you sit inside of a driver seat of a car with a functional battery, the game considers it a light source for reading

the one our dads told us to never touch

[serene sage]

this is the most real thing I've heard this month

[echo thistle]

that's the only exception to the rule for other sources of light where it counts as light, but is not visbible to the player

most people dont know you can read by micro-wave light

[flint vapor]

Oh ok

[digital helm]

Use thumb in the image instead of right and provably without the size. On smaller displays the tables get covered by the images. You don't even know there's a table there

[tulip kiln]

Ah cheers, ain't home rn so I'll do it when I get back home

Issue is gonna be with LV, there's just so many streets that all of them in one section is just gonna be too much

[digital helm]

Not ideal, but you could consider using lists instead of tables so they sit in columns. Probably wouldn't be able to use the irl column though

<div class="list-columns">
*Street name
*Street name
*Street name
</div>

This is what I did with the book titles

[tulip kiln]

Yeah I could do that, even then though, LV section is still going to be super bloated. There's just that many streets. So far I've only done one small neighbourhood in LV and that's basically almost the same amount of streets as the entirety of March Ridge

[digital helm]

I don't think Lua would fix the problem. Lua is just a faster way of doing logic and accessing data if stored in Lua tables.
This page isn't using any templates (for the tables). The problem is loading the DOM, which would still be slow regardless.
That's my understanding at least

[digital helm]

Much like the Louisville page 😄

[tulip kiln]

The real big issue is that Louisville isn't even the problem

The problem is that everywhere got street names now

So the rural streets are gonna be where it gets really clogged up

[proud cobalt]

Not sure what you mean

[proud cobalt]

Atomic ducky
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/IsAtomic_(tag)

[languid kayak]

Seems like the part of the (always neglected) https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Project_Seat_Yourself_Furniture

Calvy is the current leader and did the most work recently, but is currently busy elsewhere; feel free to list it as a task. If someone's up for the task, we discussed finding someone else to lead it in the right direction too.

A basic parser for tiles is there, but it's not ironed out and the tile definition are kept as .txt file in the game too for (relatively) easy reading.

Also yeah, Light and Lighting could be used to host a list of sources of light with their intensity.

[languid kayak]

Probably a reference to https://www.youtube.com/@MrAtomicDuck @tulip kiln 🙂

[flint vapor]

Wait what ???

[languid kayak]

@flint vapor minor nit, but do you think I can replace "fires" with "triggers"? I get what it means, but I think fires doesn't sound too professional in that context 😄 https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Events_Plus_API#List_of_events

[flint vapor]

Sure, I didn't write those descriptions, they come from the mod steam page directly

[languid kayak]

That should be all done now, if you want you can recheck if I missed anything 🙂

[languid kayak]

Yeah, I see now 😛 I changed them on the wiki, not sure if these would be changed on the project, seems it's on the workshop pages and not their BitBucket

[flint vapor]

Yea that's fine

[languid kayak]

I also noted you removed Page version from Modding in https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Modding&curid=736&diff=1103517&oldid=1058943 – you think not updating it every version is better/easier? I guess it's because the linked guide are updated independently on the page version itself so it's hard to track?

[echo thistle]

Sure, I can write a really basic placeholder paragraph or 2 if you'd like

Not edited before, but im sure I can give a reasonable shot at it

Im gonna make an account, read some guides and crack out something with pictures

Just explaining the overall concept, some ranges of the more common sources ect

For the time being it's gonna be just
"Sources say, it is known, many people agree" but as a start it'll be fine

Sources say @echo thistle is amazingly attractive, rich, well endowed and can do 18 hole in 1's in a row

[flint vapor]

Yea figured that page doesn't exactly need a versioning ?

[languid kayak]

Redigistering and editing shouldn't be too hard, the still-pinned video still stands, and now we got a new skin and visual editing since to help editing 😄 #pzwiki_editing message

For guides it's mostly https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Help:Contents and for specific writing guidelines it's https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Help:Style_guide

We'll go through them next month in detail, but should be still correct still and if antyhing's unclear, either feel free to ask here, or just go forward and save, as it'll be corrected later.

[echo thistle]

Time to ignore all guides, break all rules and act rude to people like any good new wiki user 😎

(Joke)

[languid kayak]

I was wondering myself which one is better, the other main pages linked in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Project_Zomboid_Wiki#Quick_links all have versions, but modding is specific 🤔

Not sure if it wouldn't benefit from it still, as it'd explicitly say the main focus is B42 at least, even though the B41 archived link may be outdated at that point (especially as B41 modding aspect on wiki was neglected)

[languid kayak]

Getting banned on PZwiki any% speedrun 😄

[echo thistle]

Did you know: Zombies destroying the world is a reference to [political ramble]

First thing I'll do is a paragraph explaining the concept of light, then show a bunch of common sources and their range

[flint vapor]

Yea idk

[echo thistle]

Also, while researching a bit I noticed that light from gunshots works differently than all other sources

Tried pausing to get some good pictures, but the muzzle flash (animation? Effect) kept running

Also, 2 exceptions I've found so far are the car interiors counting as readable light but not visible, while gunshots are visible light but isnt classed as usable light in game

Though the gun one makes sense. Not sure how you could read by gunfire...

"Its getting dark can you turn on the light"

[languid kayak]

I expect car one might change eventually when (if?) we get visible interiors

[echo thistle]

Dad voice: don't touch that light

Eh, leave it as is. Those lights are only bright enough to light up the interior, adding another battery drain would be misery

[proud cobalt]

Not far off the mark tbh. Just add being a huge narcissist.

[serene sage]

[verify]

/s

[echo thistle]

The only 2 sources of Natural light are Sunlight and Lightning

All others either require player input or power

[rotund echo]

Huh, RJ Office Building has a tiny mall inside?

[hushed bobcat]

No more street numbers? Or reference to fliers? Or Louisville neighbors? Or even the entire Brandenburg and Irvington? 😢

[tulip kiln]

Well yeah, it's not done yet. one small neighbourhood in LV had about as much streets as the whole of March Ridge. That's how much there is

And also all the rural streets outside of towns, it adds up, it'll take a bit.

Also I don't think the fliers are relevant anymore for the page, we've got the street names on the map, we don't need fliers to decipher it anymore.

[languid kayak]

what about moon light?

[echo thistle]

oh yeah...

dont think you can read by moonlight though

https://tenor.com/view/moon-stars-night-cat-love-gif-15968247

[rotund echo]

Hot take: Cat Eyes should be able to read in the dark, but it is very slow

[proud cobalt]

Have to check during a full moon 😂

[flint vapor]

Marked this as needed to get deleted
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Doggy's_API_-_preview.png

It's now a gif

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Doggy's_API_-_preview.gif

Idk if there was a easier method ?

I tried moving but we can't do that for files when changing the extension

[naive imp]

@languid kayak weren't we moving away from gifs to weba? Or was it the other way around? I don't remember

[languid kayak]

Deleted the old one, but GIF is still not used?

[languid kayak]

Yeah, but webp is not ideal either, I think we had some issues with animations?

[proud cobalt]

No animation support for Webp on many browsers

[languid kayak]

Yeah, webp don't work for us: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/User:Faalagorn/Image_compression#Animations

[naive imp]

Wack

[languid kayak]

apng works, but is not a standard (though png was extended to support it). Webp works, but not for us. JPEG-XL would be perfect but no browser supports it

for images of less than 256 colors gifs works fine (except the size), issues start with images above 256 colors since there's dithering. There is a (hacky) way to circumvent it, but the images are large and not many people are aware you can decode to that: https://gif.ski/

[flint vapor]

Oh wait did I forget to confirm the update of the page lol

[flint vapor]

I am not aware of that

[languid kayak]

webp animations don't work for us anyway. You could use animated PNG at best, but not all software support it properly sadly

[flint vapor]

Done

[languid kayak]

Just found out that's the case for DayZ map 😛 https://dayz.xam.nu/livonia#8289.06;7655.47;6

It lists loots on the map, though DayZ loot is probably less complicated than PZ's

[languid kayak]

@proud cobalt https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Grass_Cutting and https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Hay lack the "Obtaining" part, but they can be found naturally in Feeding Throughs on the world creation, I guess the script doesn't pick that (yet)?

Seems so, as https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Animal_Feed_Bag#Obtaining lacks the trough in obtaining as well

[languid kayak]

I guess more non-pickable tiles to add to SYF/tiles project

[proud cobalt]

I don't think there's any way for the script to pick that up. Things like that have to be added manually

[languid kayak]

I wonder if we should split the helicopter event out of metagame, similar how Fandom does it https://projectzomboid.fandom.com/wiki/Helicopter_Event. Pinging @lucid junco too.

https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Special:Search&search=Helicopter Event from search results with IWB brings to search with the only result being https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Helicopter&redirect=no and the sublink has changed now

[naive imp]

The metagame page would be really short then imo. I say make "Helicopter event" into a redirect to Metagame#Helicopter event

[languid kayak]

that's exactly like it is now 😄

except sentence case

[rotund echo]

Does First Aid 10 rapidly heal only splintable fractures, or ALL fractures?

[proud cobalt]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/First_Aid or #pz_b42_chat

[rotund echo]

I mean, the wiki page doesn't even have that info

[proud cobalt]

If you find out feel free to add it

[rotund echo]

It doesn't discriminate between splintable or unsplintable fractures...

Man, I either gotta go into debug or risk my 100+ day long char

[lucid junco]

Split tbh

I dont see the point of creating small articles

[rotund echo]

Hey guys look I made a table for the Homeward Real Estate fliers

Now how do I compress the Notes column...

[digital helm]

You shouldn't need to. The table should go as wide as it needs to

[rotund echo]

yeah some of the notes I made are uh, kinda long
I feel like it is space inefficient with how it is automatically laid out like that

[digital helm]

It's not covering anything though is it?

It should adapt to the screen size

[rotund echo]

Yeah, its not covering anything

[digital helm]

If you were to set a width, then it won't adapt to screen size, which will cause issues

*can cause issues

[rotund echo]

hmm, should I leave it as is?

[rotund echo]

But what do you think about my HomeWard table, is it good?

Ah wait, I should add coordinates

eh, sometime later

[digital helm]

I was about to say that. https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Flier#Homeward_Real_Estate

I think it's good

[rotund echo]

Dude I haven't saved the edit yet

Now how do I link coordinates...

Bruh I used the wrong table type? Good thing I didn't save yet

[digital helm]

With the coordinates template https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Coordinates

The flier page I linked has them

[rotund echo]

I think I will use the buildings template >_<

Hmm, buildings template don't seem right

[rotund echo]

Thanks

[rotund echo]

@digital helm what do you think https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Homeward_Real_Estate

I save the edit now

[languid kayak]

debug is the way 😄 Sometimes you find some posts, but these may be outdated. Alternatively, we have a few folks here actively digging to the code to check

[languid kayak]

so split or not split if you don't see the point of creating small articles 😄

Helicopter is special. It's probably a most searched metagame event people will want info of and most people will search for "helicopter", or even "helicopter event" and the search results doesn't even bring pzwiki at first because of the name

[rotund echo]

Oh my, Zomboid Fandom...

[languid kayak]

yeah, and while we cover the helicopter event quite good now, people may not end up on pzwiki and contribute there 🙃

With the plugin it's like this and bring to this: https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Special:Search&search=Helicopter Event (I think I showed it yesterday?)

https://getindie.wiki/ this plugin, since PZwiki is added there as one of the wikis (and generally useful plugin to not end up on worse fandom wikis instead)

[rotund echo]

Time to crash cars into the trees

https://tenor.com/view/sully-walk-monsters-inc-gif-16339267

[languid kayak]

you can add yourself a fracture in debug, though arguably may be less fun 😄

"fun" https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Fun&redirect=no

[rotund echo]

You can also hack your levels in debug, yes?

[languid kayak]

yup

you can add and remove levels at will

traits too

[rotund echo]

Yeah if all the fractures get the same rapid healing instead of just the splintable ones, Doctor is gonna be better xD

[languid kayak]

@proud cobalt with that merged https://github.com/Vaileasys/pz-wiki_parser/commit/b720af5a0f684d330b91148a2bff8ac6bdb12071 should we add bot task to remove the links everywhere elsewhere else?

Also not sure if now or during the review month, but with item pages vastly improved now, we should get back to https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Boilerplates probably to set a common example for these.

At least these three should be user-created:

• short summary in the first sentence (best to provide some examples, as it will be different for food, clothing, materials, junk whatever)
• usage section (except crafting and researching, which should be automated)
• maybe the obtaining section (was mostly discussed with ThinkDock and others, not sure we came to conclusion yet)
• see also (not really easy to automate that, as results are widely inaccurate)

I also lean toward avoiding two links near each other, the current example from https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Help:Boilerplate_item is like that:

A '''rubber duck''' is a [[junk]] [[item]]. where two links are near each other, it may be harder to figure they are two separate links and not just one link.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Linking#General_points_on_linking_style

When possible, do not place links next to each other that appear to be a single link, as in chess tournament ([[chess]] [[tournament]]). Instead, consider using a single, more specific link such as chess tournament ([[chess tournament]]). If this is not possible, consider omitting one of the links ([[chess tournament]]) or rephrasing the sentence ([[tournament]] of [[chess]]).

From my recent example, in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Hay or https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Animal_Feed_Bag I ended up not linking to [[item]]s at all. On one hand, there's no way to get to the main https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Item page, but it links to a subpage, in this case https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Food (it's not updated yet, but point still stands).

[languid kayak]

@flint vapor FYI, I linked the maps in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Vanilla_Map_Export but I guess Challenge 2 is this? https://map.projectzomboid.com/?desc=Challenge2v2L0#138x138x9

What challenge it was used for?

Also, what about the original Knox County map recreation from https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=You_Have_One_Day ?

[flint vapor]

I have no idea 😅

I tried asking the mapping Discord but didn't get any good answers

[languid kayak]

https://theindiestone.com/forums/index.php?/topic/9054-the-challenge-maps/ is an old discussion 😄

Guess it'd be easiest to download b41 and check but I'm lazy 😄

[flint vapor]

Yea that's fine haha

[proud cobalt]

Don't think it's worth a bot task. To do what just remove the link? If a user has to do them all anyway they can remove the link.
Usage is much more than crafting and research now, lots added by the parser
Obtaining should get a brief summary after disccussion in the review
See also is skipped now not required on every article

I lean the other way, two links next to each other isn't bad, we should link as much as possible to list pages. In your example we link to junk and item list pages. We don't have a Junk item page.

[languid kayak]

What's also added by usage? I believe some ways (things behind tags such as cleaning, shaving, makeup, showing time) aren't and won't be automated for example?

can also discuss linking next to each other during the review too, there are other situations in text such as [[XXX]] [[trait]] or [[YYY]] [[occupation]] and things like that

[lucid junco]

Im neutral, if everybody else says aye, I will make a page myself

[proud cobalt]

I think metagame should mention all of them, and then each meta game should get it's own page. Like random stories

[proud cobalt]

Currently for usage we have
-Weapon
--Condition
-Tool
-Fuel
-Clothing
--Body part
-Food
--Consumable properties
-Container
-Fluid container
-Contents
-Crafting
--Evolved recipes
--Learned recipes
--Researchable recipes
-Building

[languid kayak]

fuel is automated now? I remember we were discussing it and being just a part of the infobox, so I guess that's changed and will update for pages like https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Hay or https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Cutting_Board_(plastic)?

As for containers, will the script pick up https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Animal_Feed_Bag too?

Actually, let me go into debug to see what happens with animal feed back, as I'm not sure if it's just a drainable 😄

[rotund echo]

When is TIS adding Kingsmouth to B42?????

[proud cobalt]

Automated for article creation not for updating

[languid kayak]

so I'd have to create it locally and merge by hand for existing items?

Do we have examples of this being autogenerated that are present on wiki?

[proud cobalt]

No i only pushed it yesterday nothing on wiki yet

[flint vapor]

That's ... a curious behavior lol

Maaaaasssive image lol

[languid kayak]

Not sure what the ideal way is, but https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Cooking_(item) sound like there'd be an item called "Cooking". Pinging @digital helm 🤔

I think we could use (items) here? I know the page is called "Item" now, but would help with possible confusion (I was, first though it was some mistake when I noticed Cooking (item)/fr page 😄

I also keep on removing page version from non-English pages, e.g., https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Cooking_(item)%2Ffr&diff=1118451&oldid=1117565

I think I already mentioned it, but people seem to be confused about it and I think we technically should track these pages, I guess it's on the talking points for the review month @proud cobalt? E.g. https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Version_42/es

[languid kayak]

@flint vapor https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=CraftRecipe&curid=141639&diff=1117893&oldid=1117891 are you sure it's Recipes_ and not Recipe_ indeed? Below it's

Recipe_EN = {
    Recipe_MyRecipe = "My Recipe Name"
}

[flint vapor]

Yup

Someone made me the remark that there was this mistake the other day

I checked and yea

However I didn't change the example yea

Fixed it

Wait

Yes that's it

[languid kayak]

@digital helm Made a PR to remove in [[Project Zomboid]] in https://github.com/Vaileasys/pz-wiki_parser/pull/38 but please see if it's correct, as I untested it 😄

However, do you think it would be possible to also automatically add a vehicle type to the summary? Sounds doable, e.g., https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Prisoner_Transport_Franklin_Valuline&diff=prev&oldid=1118529

[languid kayak]

I want to update the https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Butterfly_Knife with the models; one has to go to the gallery, but not sure which one? The one placed on world is the closed one, the wielded one is the open one. I think the world-placed one are priority in general, at least with the drinking/eating animations, but not sure the same is the case for weapons?

@proud cobalt I think something's wrong in the parser for frame pack, e.g. in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Butterfly_Knife#Crafting

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Base.Base.PackFrame

[languid kayak]

https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Twiggy's&curid=12083&diff=1118123&oldid=1060141 Is this the case indeed? Pinging @lucid junco and @tulip kiln for that I guess? If I spawn triggy in debug it spawns a random ID for me, and randomized Twiggy building story doesn't seem to work for me for some reason

Also found here: https://www.reddit.com/r/projectzomboid/comments/1hpo0tp/found_jackie_jaye_the_reporter_from_the_news/

I know outfits are still from 41.78.16, but https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Sir_Twiggy would eventually need updating then

@flint vapor what did the "Make sure to restart your terminal after downloading a new Java version if you are decompiling from it." means? Found it in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Decompiling_game_code#Java but I have no idea what it means 😄

Is it physically restarting terminal window? Why would it be needed? I assume terminal means a terminal in *nix and command line in Windows?

[flint vapor]

Yes

[languid kayak]

Also noted that the decompilation works fien with OpenJDK, as I did that, so no need to download the Oracle's Java

[languid kayak]

why's that? Java is just executable, unless it's some quirk in some OSes?

[flint vapor]

Basically the newly downloaded Java version won't work until you restart your terminal

[flint vapor]

Idk the technical details behind it, I would assume it opens an environment or some shit idk

[languid kayak]

that's the case with just Oracle's official Java implementation?

[flint vapor]

@flat sun might know better here

[flint vapor]

No idea

Idk what OpenJDK is either

[languid kayak]

FLOSS java implementation, https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Java should explain it

But you might be right about the terminal?

After installation, the Java environment will need to be recognized by the shell ($PATH variable). This can be done by sourcing /etc/profile from the command line, by logging out/in again of the Desktop environment, or by rebooting.

[flat sun]

it's not to do with java, it's to do with windows (and possibly other oses, no clue)

if you want to run java as java it needs to be on the path under that name, and the path is cached when you open cmd, so you need to restart it for it to be updated

[languid kayak]

I was surprised Java needs that special treatment, as I usually just install stuff and run, but it might indeed be the case 😄

[flat sun]

that's also why most things tell you to restart your computer after installation, even though it seems like on modern oses this is literally never needed

[languid kayak]

Well, for servers it's possible, but desktop OSes restarting is usually the simplest way still 😄

[languid kayak]

What's curious with that btw? I am just patrolling, categorizing these images at that very moment

[flint vapor]

Don't you see the extremely long icon to chose the first image lol ?

Class logo dark

Light mode

I'll try to use that anytime there's these kind of images

[languid kayak]

but it is long? https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:BeeArr_tools_-_TileZedTools.png

[flint vapor]

Yea but it literally goes beyond the infobox border

[languid kayak]

oh yeah, now I see it 😄

[languid kayak]

was worried the class wouldn't work in light mode, but it does well, so yeah 😄

simple revert of colors does wonders 👌

[flint vapor]

Yup

[languid kayak]

I sometimes forget that B42 technically has multiplayer in form of local co-op btw 😄

(random though)

In case anyone wonders, I updated https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Metagame headers to the current in-game names

[languid kayak]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Helicopter is now a separate page and https://www.startpage.com/sp/search?query=zomboid+Helicopter&cat=web&pl=opensearch&language=english works as I expect now 🥳

Also added verify to https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Metagame&diff=prev&oldid=1118689 – is zombie spawn still a thing? And in b42?

[languid kayak]

Also @proud cobalt I know the tiles are yet to be taken care of, but I've been keeping eye on https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Scarecrow linking to https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Mov_Scarecrow – is it something that we can fix relatively easily?

[digital helm]

Yeah, I wasn't sure about this. I only went with item because the topic is item, so went with consistency with other descriptors for that topic

[languid kayak]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Fishing_(item) is the same

[digital helm]

I'm not fussed either way. But if you do change it, let me know because I'd need to update the pages for category links in the infobox

[languid kayak]

for now I left it as-is, something to keep in mind, though

[digital helm]

I could do that

[digital helm]

In the script it should be prioritising the equipped model for weapons. I think the priority is mentioned in the style guide?

[digital helm]

Nope, I think I had it the opposite. I was thinking of clothing. Maybe the weapon sprite should be prioritised?

[naive imp]

Regarding categories, I think that once all these locations are done, we should put them in category by location type. Ex: "Hardware stores" "Bars" "Tailoring supply stores", etc etc. Would make editing all locations like that easier, in case loot was changed or something. Thoughts @languid kayak @digital helm @proud cobalt?

Also I thought that site maintenance was by language? We have non English pages in thr English "incorrect template usage" category

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Incorrect_template_usage

[flint vapor]

<@&671452400221159444>

[naive imp]

They really think that shirs gonna work huh

Who tf is falling for that

[wary stratus]

danke

[naive imp]

Ye

[proud cobalt]

Nope, it's the frame pack itelf, i've reported already

[proud cobalt]

Anything in PATH for windows needs a cmd/powersshell restart

[digital helm]

I think that makes sense.
If you wanted, you could start with the building type as the first category, like it's displayed in the map legend. Then that'd be the subcategory? Just a thought

[proud cobalt]

That looks good on both

[digital helm]

Oh fun. Time to find which template is doing this

[proud cobalt]

Doesn't need to be a link

Made it a code tag instead

[proud cobalt]

Looks good to me, merged

[proud cobalt]

^

[proud cobalt]

Yeah then a generic page would be good

[proud cobalt]

This one sits in the English category, it flags us if we made an oopsie when editing a template

[lucid junco]

Maybe?

I hadn't tested it in b42 tbh

Nor did I update the page yet

[lucid junco]

If it is random id, that should be reported

[gloomy glen]

I don't understand the "Once the helicopter arrives." in the first line. Was it cut short?

it's the helicopter page

[rotund echo]

Yeah its likely an error on editor's end

[gloomy glen]

Thanks! Wasn't sure if it was my English failing lol

[rotund echo]

Are buildings that are exempt from building stories able to be pre-looted or no?

Because I've seen it is not just houses that are looted, I've seen stores, factories, and small strip malls be pre-looted too

[proud cobalt]

Not really the place for general questions, nobody has researched pre looting on the wiki yet. We'd love to get some of that info on the wiki about how it works if you find out.

[languid kayak]

that can work is just lots of manual work :D. We have some generic pages too already categorizng rhem, guess more can come. Also businesses page refresh couls help?

[naive imp]

Plan on creating the general pages alongside the categories to benefit both maintenance and readers. Categories are more what we editors are used to working with, and general pages will help readers find what they want quickly and easily.

The good thing about locations is they don't tend to change much. Makes manual editing far more feasable

Plus yall can automate away. I like the human touch.

[languid kayak]

It's by language but the technical issues/errors are grouped together. I asked Calvy and Vail whether we should split them, but the decision was not to, probably to find them easier? And system ones done by MediaWiki (not this one, bit e.g. the ones exceeding parser limits) can't be grouped by language

[naive imp]

Makes sense

[languid kayak]

can fix it manually, but what was the root cause? And is it fixed already / will be in future script version so it won't come back?

[rotund echo]

I've heard buildings that are too large are exempt from being pre-looted... but how big is the definition of "too big", I don't know

Though based on my own personal account, buildings like LSU Library or Newton Freight can't be looted

I am also going to bet that GU, Louisville PD, skyscrapers, and shopping malls also cannot be looted

[languid kayak]

when spawned in debug via horde manager though so not intended for gameplay

[naive imp]

Maybe you should do some digging into that. Or see if anyone else has looked into it? Would benefit us but nobody knows at the moment

[naive imp]

I plan on doing both. Categories are more readily accessible on the editing side, and easy to keep hosted on a user page. General pages benefit the reader in finding quick and accurate information while also keeping unnamed locations documented without excessive page bloat. Its a win-win.

[lucid junco]

So only these can be looted

and it has something about buildings being too small

likely to prevent roadside death traps aka utility sheds

And too big buildings cannot be trashed

[proud cobalt]

Sounds good

[rotund echo]

Oh no, gunstore

https://tenor.com/view/walter-walter-white-falling-walter-white-sad-hank-death-breaking-bad-gif-11929995292147864802

[lucid junco]

Honestly trashed is worse

since it can affect any building

and leaves almost 0 loot

[rotund echo]

At least Grand Ohio can't be looted so I know Stars & Stripes will be safe 🙏

[naive imp]

One of yall @lucid junco @rotund echo should document this somewhere. Where it goes though, I'm not sure. @serene sage randomized stories?

[rotund echo]

I'm not too good with datamining but I will remember what sharpgolden has posted

[naive imp]

Oh so it is a story then. Should probably go into randomized stories then

[naive imp]

Me neither. I stay out of that stuff for the most part

@lucid junco there are still a few pages that need logos done, I know you're the logo wizard so just letting you know.

[rotund echo]

Yeah looted building is probably a building story... but their coverage is a lot more broader than say... survivor homes or burned down

[lucid junco]

thats all times when trashed buildings is mentioned

[lucid junco]

Why are you asking me...

Wait

Im a wiki editor

Ive almost forgot

[naive imp]

I mean... I asked you because you're the one who knows how to straighten them but that's also true

I gotta play stardew again

[rotund echo]

They almost replaced you with ChatGPT bro

[naive imp]

Who is they?

[rotund echo]

Wiki Admins ofc 🤣

[lucid junco]

huh

a lot of pics were added

[rotund echo]

Is that Zomboid terminator??? o.O

[lucid junco]

Always was

[rotund echo]

Now I need to find out where this poster or billboard is in the b42map.com

Meh, its a needle in a haystack

[lucid junco]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/CyberKiller_2

[languid kayak]

was probably trying to chance something in the middle of the sentece and forgot to remove it 😄

[rotund echo]

Since you can't begin as V. Underweight or Obese anymore, what should we do with their pages?

[proud cobalt]

Can you still get the very high weight trait?

[rotund echo]

You should be able to

Just stuff yourself with butter

[proud cobalt]

Update the page to say as such

If you can

Otherwise {{Removed

[rotund echo]

Obese still should exist, just that you can't start with it

[languid kayak]

Actually, it was like that before 😄 Seems @lucid junco cut it short

https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Metagame&diff=next&oldid=874769

I think we can remove that bit entirely?

[rotund echo]

If Obese trait still exists or has been removed, I can't actually confirm yet, all I have a is a hunch that TIS has no reason to remove Obese

[proud cobalt]

The trait was renamed to very high weight. Are you sure it was removed from character creation at all?

[rotund echo]

Yes, you can't begin as Obese anymore, because Slow Metabolism gives you only Overweight

[lucid junco]

What bit

[rotund echo]

But you might still be able to become Obese in real gameplay

[languid kayak]

Right now without that part it's like that

The helicopter can arrive on Day 6-9, from 9 AM to 6 PM. Once the helicopter arrives. On default settings, the helicopter will only come on one day.

[rotund echo]

You guys didn't know we have another Jimmy's Pre-Owned Cars next to the horse track? Been here since B41

I checked the page and I didn't know there was one next to the Expo Center

[flint vapor]

@languid kayak do we need to fight ? 😭
https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Zomboid_Decompiler&diff=next&oldid=1118271

I added that in because I had feedback that going to another page for the Java download is just too much

Especially as the information is not found in a single check of the page and you need to read the whole paragraph

[languid kayak]

well, I just didn't wanted to force people to specifically install Oracle's java and didn't want to maintain it in two separate places , but if you got the feedback then I guess it won't hurt? I though that folks generally can haveJava already too 😄

[flat sun]

they generally have java 1.8 😅

and if they see that section and google 'java download', they'll probably be tricked into dowloading 1.8 too

[flint vapor]

I guess I can make a Java page ...

[flint vapor]

Ok the limitations of the wiki regarding color highlight in code blocks is starting to be fucking annoying + the tabulations causing some weird ass behavior too

I'm in serious need of some ideas or solutions here if you guys have any

disgusting

why are tabulations illeggaaaaal in this fucking wiki

[flint vapor]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Getting_started

Made this page, idk if you guys are fine with the name of the page

[languid kayak]

You can try fiddle with <syntaxhighlight> directly I guess

That's the extension: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight

We're at 2.0 (9481d2d) 08:36, 1 July 2025

[flint vapor]

Do you know if I can use templates in it ? Bcs right now it does let me have a code box but it acts the same as CodeSnip

I need to be able to use html span color inside a codebox

I suppose I could maybe use highlight

Actually I can't control the background color, idk why I read that

Line highlight doesn't even work anyway

Could I achieve it with Lua ?

Now I've got a feeling this is going to be impossible

If only we could use markdown inside the wiki

[flint vapor]

I feel like this is too much and all of these should be moved in the mods page ?

Maybe not the last one, but at least the first two

[marble inlet]

@clever crypt

sorry for ping if that wasnt the way i was meant to do that btw*

[woven portal]

better to do @ moderator since it sends us a ping

[marble inlet]

ahh okay my bad, i saw somebody pinged it in general earlier so i just assumed that was the mod ping here*

[flint vapor]

Ok moved the first two in the mods page
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Mods

[vapid walrus]

Does anyone know if there is a reason to use a cooler, can it slow down the degradation at all?

[languid kayak]

refridgerator and not the freazer? Yeah, the food should show the time of both for all food

@proud cobalt isn't Piano a debug recipe? Should we still include it?

In https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Claw_Hammer#Building for example

Not sure if it's still needed but I removed the togglebox for now; Initially wanted to replace the | and = but it turns out it looks bad with ToggleBox. Pinging @flint vapor for that too: https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Mapping&diff=prev&oldid=1118871

[flint vapor]

Yea that's fine for now

[languid kayak]

When browsing a model for the https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Claw_Hammer&curid=106&diff=1118731&oldid=1105645 I noticed that in the old version, the page wasn't marked as https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Articles_requiring_item_models since it was missing just the second model. Can we do something so these pages are categorized as well? @proud cobalt or @digital helm?

[digital helm]

Lua probably wouldn't help. It's really just a different way of writing a template. It just gives you more control and is efficient. But it's still wikitext transcluded to a page

I'm not sure what other options you have

[flint vapor]

Possibly being able to write in markdown but I'm not how I'd test it out

Saw some extensions for that but yea I have no idea if that'd allow me to do it

[digital helm]

Also, CodeSnip is literally just syntaxhighlight. So any limitations with syntaxhighlight will be the same for CodeSnip

[flint vapor]

Yea

I quickly figured that out lol

[proud cobalt]

Vail's wheelhouse

[proud cobalt]

No, on my to do

[rotund echo]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/473467044050894858/1392460270240010320/Screenshot_2025-07-09-18-57-55-040_com.android.chrome-edit.jpg?ex=68a6536f&is=68a501ef&hm=497fc9903ba5ffb68437a4ad66e3211226ed43800a192a0df04e655271d381b1&

This place is named Twin Sisters Close now

Source: street names

[proud cobalt]

That's just the name of the street

[rotund echo]

Hey, its named Twin Sisters Close now because I said so

If Patrick refuses to recognize it as Jamieton, is my way or the highway

Anyway I updated https://pzwiki.net/wiki/LSU_Library

[rotund echo]

I also redone Stendo's now

[rotund echo]

Hey guys, I added a good amount of content in the LV page

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Louisville

[lucid junco]

Cooler as the portable container does nothing

apart from being the container

and portable

[languid kayak]

oh right, I forgot about the item named as such 😄 Yeah, currently does nothing.

[languid kayak]

I updated https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Cooler to reflect that – was thinking whether it should be under "usage" or "trivia", but put it in usage so far.

Was also wondering whether to add "currently", as I have no idea if the ability to add that is planned eventually? I don't think we got such info, though I think it was suggested/expected functionality of it. https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Cooler&diff=1118937&oldid=1105801

[languid kayak]

Seems like we miss the names of the Snow Globes

I wonder if there's some easter eggs there?

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Snow_Globe

SpecialLootSpawns.OnCreatePostcard = function(item)
    if not item then return; end;
    local card = SpecialLootSpawns.Postcards[ZombRand(#SpecialLootSpawns.Postcards)+1]
    local text = getText("IGUI_Photo_" .. card)
    text = getText("IGUI_PostcardFrom", getText(item:getScriptItem():getDisplayName()), text)
    item:setName(text)
    item:getModData().literatureTitle = "IGUI_Postcard_" .. card
end

SpecialLootSpawns.OnCreateSnowGlobe = function(item)
    if not item then return; end;
    local orb = SpecialLootSpawns.Postcards[ZombRand(#SpecialLootSpawns.Postcards)+1]
    local text = getText("IGUI_Photo_" .. orb)
    text = getText("IGUI_SnowGlobeOf", getText(item:getScriptItem():getDisplayName()), text)
    item:setName(text)
end

Maybe not, it seems to be the same as postcards?

Not sure you want to be the one adding them @digital helm? Seems to be the same as https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Postcard#Variants

[digital helm]

These must be new, since I did the others. Low priority for me, but I'll add them to the list

[languid kayak]

42.8.0

[flint vapor]

<@&671452400221159444>

[low geode]

yea this is a problem in discord rn

[rotund echo]

Why do I feel like the cultist farm is a reference to Jim Jones Jonestown

Meh its probably some generic cultist camp

[lucid junco]

Honestly its the most generic cultist camp

ive thought that it is a reference to gta 5 cultist base

but not likely

[thin cloud]

No, GTA 5 is bad

[languid kayak]

Being bad is the point of GTA 😉

[rotund echo]

Wait... there's an alleged lingeriestore roomdef...

but, where the hell is it!?

I thought its a niche Louisville would cover but I can't find any!!

[rotund echo]

Hey I done that Strangers & Freaks missions before, iirc they eat people because they want their youth?

[thin cloud]

Bad bad

[languid kayak]

bad to the bone

https://tenor.com/view/dancing-megamind-cartoon-gif-6090960

[serene sage]

if I'm not mistaken level 3 Running is where your running (not sprinting) speed is equal to a sprinter right?

[rotund echo]

Yes you are correct

[naive imp]

Brandenburg done

I am very happy to announce that all major towns added on build 42 can now be considered final and complete. Major thanks to @lucid junco for doing a lot of the initial work, @prime ibex (I hope that's the right person lol, dunno if you're on discord) for adding the Brandenburg locations table, and @past glacier for creating some Brandenburg locations.

Some minor/smaller locations added in build 42 remain, but all the big ones are covered. Major win today. Got one hell of a summary for this month.

Fantastic work by everyone involved.

[lucid junco]

Airport left though

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Louisville_International_Airport

Many of the business are missing

[languid kayak]

@proud cobalt can't find our discussion right now, but as I often check random pages while playing and updating summary, I link them as A '''XXX''' us a [[category]] item. but as yours are currently A '''XXX''' us a [[category]] [[item]]., I wonder how should I link them till we agree on something?

E.g., https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Toothpaste vs https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Rubber_Band

[proud cobalt]

Im happy to leave them as either for the time being. I did standardise them as both links so I'm surprised there are even any left that aren't.

[past glacier]

Fantastic work! Looks amazing

[languid kayak]

@tulip kiln I think we have some tags used as a reference to prominent community members?
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Puppers_(tag)
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/IsAtomic_(tag)

Not sure if there's more?

[rotund echo]

Where is my Toadstars (tag)

TIS!!!!!!

[languid kayak]

Right next to a graffiti with my name 😄

oh, mouse trap doesn't have a 3D model

Page is still 41.78.16 https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Mouse_Trap

[lucid junco]

Huh

so north on the pz map is not a straight line

judging by the markings on the runway

[languid kayak]

I guess I won't link [[item]] as per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Linking#General_points_on_linking_style and my previous thoughs, at worst we can bot them if we change our minds

@flint vapor I think you asked about a name? I think it should be renamed to suggest it's not modding 🤔

Not sure about the name, I suggested Getting started (modding) initially I though of "Getting started to modding" (not sure what preposition to use though; "with" probably?)

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Getting_started (this page)

[flint vapor]

Getting started with modding ?

I thought about it

[languid kayak]

Seems it's correct? Rendom page I found on the internet: https://core-keeper-modding.gitbook.io/modding-wiki/archive/outdated-il2cpp-guides/getting-started

If it is, I guess I can just move it? Is the redirect needed, in case it'd be confused with e.g., https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Survival_Guide

[lucid junco]

@naive imp Should we merge KY-Transit Bus Terminal and KY Transit pages?

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/KY_Transit

https://b42map.com/?19488x3855

[languid kayak]

I don't remember if I asked, but I assume the new missing sections such as "Fuel" for applicable items should be added manually, right?

[proud cobalt]

Add them if they're missing yeah, fuel is one I regret not adding when I was standardising pages

[rotund echo]

Fine by me

[languid kayak]

Can we at least get a list of pages with the missing ==Fuel== section? Should be doable I guess. We have list on https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Fuel as well

[proud cobalt]

Should probably just go through that list. It's likely most of them

All the ones that exist should probably be checked too to mention if it can be used as tinder

[languid kayak]

I updated https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Tasks#Items_and_boilerplates with basically what we've come so far with items btw, feel free to presicse/correct/add if anything's missing.

I only didn't mention the https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Autogenerated_articles_(B42) (or B41), https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Version bumps or other mainteneance pages from https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Site_maintenance

[languid kayak]

I think our https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Automated_Emergency_Broadcast_System could use some standard messages, as I think we don't have transcript for that… @digital helm is it possible to add these for example?

Do we need this trivia (except for earbuds being unpopular in 1993), sounds superfluous at best:

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Headphones#Trivia
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Earbuds#Trivia

[languid kayak]

@digital helm just FYI, https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Fluid_container misses all kind of throughs. They can be picked and filled with water, but there are some interesting quirks

1. If you fill them to 50+ encumbrance and put them into container, the only way to pick them up is to go to debug and edit them to 0 weight. Not sure if the ones with more than 50 liquid can at all be picked afterwards, even in debug.
2. If you try filling them with pumps, the fuel will disappear, exhausing the pump eventually.
3. In case of multi-tile ones, the one has regular capacity and the other is 50 ml. I have yet to try filling them.

[languid kayak]

Walkie Talkies too

[languid kayak]

Actually, I'm not sure now, was it removed in Build 42 @proud cobalt? https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Sheet_of_Paper&diff=prev&oldid=1119323

History say it was removed in b38, but wasn't it obsolete then?

[languid kayak]

Well, it fills, but the water bar is not full

filling 100 liters takes almost 2 game hours 😄

but it works, oh lovely encumbrance

When placed though, it's empty