pzwiki_editing

[languid kayak]

The ones we have are correct, the old ones were reversed then 🙂

I also realized the https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Strawberry.png is of different icon; probably from an old version? I'd have to check some vintage zomboid

[digital helm]

not sure if it was ever used, but it's from the farming mod TZ_Strewberry.png

[proud cobalt]

New thursdoid 🎉

Wow

Every single xp value on the wiki will have to be updated

[digital helm]

Almost every single 'thing' will need to be updated 😄

The aesthetics are so good 👌

[woven portal]

nah, looks right

salmon is more reddish when raw

freakin love salmon

[languid kayak]

This seems to be unique too https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Smallcannedsoup.png

[languid kayak]

original was reversed

😄

Anyway, I updated some icons in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Tasks#One-time_bot_tasks @digital helm but these two are still reversed – I think we have them uploaded? But will find which one later, just letting you know, @proud cobalt too

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Smallemptybottle.png
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Milk_package.png

[proud cobalt]

True 😆

[languid kayak]

oh wait, nvm, I think I'm stupid, probably the icons you listed were correct to REPLACE, even if the icons were old

are not the same that is

new brandenburg image btw: https://projectzomboid.com/blog/content/uploads/2024/07/basementlocations_01.png

[lucid junco]

Gives me The long dark vibes with its random houses

[robust latch]

Should we revert the Calvybot's (Converted {{Pros-cons}} to wikitable)changes now that we have decided to permanently use proscons template instead of wikitable @proud cobalt, and also @digital helm?

[proud cobalt]

(Mass) Reverting isn't viable as the bot has done hundreds more other edits since and some of the pages have had manual edits afterwards. Vail and I are working on using the bot to convert the tables back to the template asap now that the template has been updated

[robust latch]

Alright

[proud cobalt]

Pretty minor but but currently the wiki button on https://projectzomboid.com/blog/ links to https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Main_Page&redirect=no
Might be worth getting this updated in case something ever breaks this redirect?

[languid kayak]

I did mention it to Kirrus, but I guess it wasn't forwarded; also it's PZwiki and not PZ Wiki 😉

same with the link on the website and on reddit iirc

@proud cobalt

As such, in B42 scrapping, dismantling and ripping items will no longer grant XP.
I wonder if it'll be disabled altogether or enable in sandbox? Would affect movables a lot

So anyway here’s Brandenburg.
Name for Brandenburg verified 🎉

That's Kate & Bob btw: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0ey-ZNv8PA

[tulip kiln]

We could use this as an example picture on a future basements page perhaps.

[digital helm]

Going to be weird at first. Dismantling has been the main way to gain xp for so long

[digital helm]

Took me a minute to recognise the house 😄 it looks so pretty now

[digital helm]

When b42 goes unstable, should we expand the page version template, to make it clearer which pages have and haven't been updated?

Currently it's collapsed intentionally, since everything is all updated to b41

[proud cobalt]

Seems like it will be gone completely, and along with a level cap from media like Pete Bren said, the main way must be doing other tasks. But i wonder how youre going to train electrical and such as dismantling was basically the only way

[proud cobalt]

I think during IWBUMS having it expanded will be best

[serene sage]

suffer through building tens of thousands of watches, sweatshop style

[digital helm]

it mentioned electrical and dismantling car wrecks will still give xp

This said, as things stand, XP for dismantling electrical items or wrecked vehicles remains.

which is good, since there's a bit of a difference between those archaic skills and modern ones.

[serene sage]

still interested in establishing a sweatshop when npcs arrive though

[honest kraken]

only joined this discord to say that the item ID for mechanic books are wrong. gotta remove the S. goes for all the volumes

[digital helm]

Thank you. Appreciate it. You can create an account if you'd like, and fix these when you see them 🙂 otherwise one of us will get to it

[honest kraken]

if i find more il consider it. yall have a nice evening

[proud cobalt]

@languid kayak Been working on some APNGs for models, but just cant get the file size down to compare with gif

[digital helm]

New consumables template mostly done. https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Consumables/sandbox
Just some clean-up. All the values are now calculated for you, rather than having to manually calculate all the values when fresh, cooked, stale, rotten. And images fall back to image if nothing is defined for image_cooked, etc. So should be a lot easier for people to use.
Are we happy with this?

[proud cobalt]

Looks good, how is chance calculated for sickness? Chance seems to be never straight forward in this game so seems too good to be tue as a %

[digital helm]

It is thankfully. 75% chance for DangerousUncooked and 5% for eggs to gain 15 sickness (not entirely sure what that means). Percentage is adjusted by traits though

#pzwiki_editing message

[proud cobalt]

Oh wow it really is that simple

[languid kayak]

they said electrical dismantling will stay

in that blog 😛

[languid kayak]

APNGs are PITA to work with sadly :/ And for some reason animated webp don't work

I'll take a look later though

[woven portal]

is it worthwhile to have b41 and b42 separate?

for those who will inevitably wish to remain on b41 until b42 works out its kinks and mods are updated

[languid kayak]

it wa brought out a few times, way easier for us to not havong maintain 2 separate pages or info for both like in b41. I'd love to have history for the changes to see what's changed, but nothing was done here too

[digital helm]

Yeah, been brought up quite a few times. Tried it in b41 and it didn't work. We were going to look at tracking version history though

As Faal said 😄

[woven portal]

so ig itll be viewing history like in tarkov wiki for older info

[proud cobalt]

Bot does not like me tagging that many people 🤔

Pros-cons should be fixed now

[proud cobalt]

With the version template making it obvious what version a page is made for its just not worth the extra work to have multiple pages

[languid kayak]

I guess it can be sped up, though I'm always focusing on ironing something else out 😄

[languid kayak]

Does Tarkov wiki tracks history of changes? The Fandom one? I thought more like TF2 wiki https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Force-A-Nature#Update_history

[woven portal]

you can view the history of a page

which is all you need really

[languid kayak]

you can here too, but it's pretty crude, as you can't update old revision, i.e. when the links or template changes

[woven portal]

if you want the old way to do a quest or old ammo values

[woven portal]

yeah ik gonna have to do that

[digital helm]

thank you 😅

[digital helm]

We were looking at having a link to the b41 version in that template.
Did we end up getting a way to permanently link to a particular version set up @proud cobalt ? I don't remember

[digital helm]

indeed https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Apple&oldid=31839

[proud cobalt]

I remember it being possible in theory, but I didn't put much effort into actually attempting it.

The idea was for the bot to get the revision ID of the last revision that contained page version 41.78.16 then put a link on the current page with that revision

[proud cobalt]

I think we ended up better than we started, just took a roundabout to get there

[digital helm]

Looks like I set the template up for it https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Template%3APage_version&type=revision&diff=398727&oldid=361299 just need to have 2 as the oldid

[digital helm]

I think we learnt lessons too. Which is important. Thanks @naive imp for pointing it out

[proud cobalt]

Everyone had good intentions, no harm done

[proud cobalt]

Looks definitely possibly using page.revisions (ignore the actual topic) just proves it exists. So can grab text from it and the revision id
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/63213660/wikipedia-revision-history-using-pywikibot

[digital helm]

Ah good. Guessing we'll have to remove it eventually too. Maybe when b41 goes stable? Might be something to worry about later 😄

[proud cobalt]

Removing is the easiest part tbh

[woven portal]

when going through the carpentry section i noticed theres no gate? unless its here and im blind

we have a gate article though

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Gate

[digital helm]

There's no craftable carpentry gate is there? Other than the Double Wooden Door, which is under fences (should it be entrances?)

[woven portal]

the gate that is pictured is indeed the crafted gate

it has the recipie there too

[digital helm]

that's the double wooden door https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Double_Wooden_Door

[woven portal]

ooh its called double wooden door

so the gate section is redundant?

should be under entrances for sure though

cause well, its an entrance

lol

its in the same section as the door in the carpentry build menu ingame too

[digital helm]

It's very confusing 😄 because it's not very consistent. It's the only "door" that doesn't go in a doorframe. The metal ones are called gates, so I'm guessing that was the rationale?

[woven portal]

Yeah, but regarding the section it goes into

makes more sense to put it under entrances, since its called a door and is an entrance

[digital helm]

oh, it's because all the metal gates are in fences... so I guess it was intentional? @proud cobalt

[woven portal]

the wooden fence in the fences section is not the one the double wooden door goes into though

its a small half fence

the double door goes into the wooden wall frames

aesthetically

can also go into log walls which are again in the first section and not the 2nd

so really, it makes even less sense to put it there now that i think about it since all the fences in the fence section are half height

[proud cobalt]

Navbox hasn't been updated since the addition of meta articles, I think that's where you're getting confused

[woven portal]

anyway the double door gotta move to the entrances section

[proud cobalt]

It's in the fence section as it fit the definition we had for 'tall fences' which was the legacy category it was in

It's not really an entrance

[woven portal]

which no longer applies right?

so it gotta move

yes, but all the tall fences are not in that section

and also, it is an entrance, not sure what makes it not an entrance

[proud cobalt]

You can't walk through it

[woven portal]

you cant walk through a closed door either?

wdym

[digital helm]

what about the metal fence gates though? That'd be why the double wooden door is there, to be consistant with the metal section

[proud cobalt]

I didn't put door there I disagree with door being there

[woven portal]

but that makes 0 sense regarding the carpentry section

[proud cobalt]

Gates and fences go in the fence section

Just like the metalworking part

[woven portal]

all the walls and fences the wooden double door are in the 1st section, while the half fences are in the 2nd section

im not sure why we're retroactively working to make it make sense

when it doesnt really

[proud cobalt]

I don't think it's that confusing

The first section is for walls and door frames

[woven portal]

and a door

[proud cobalt]

Stairs should also go in other

[woven portal]

they should

but the section is titled Walls and Entrances

excluding the wooden double door makes no sense

its not confusing but it is inconsistent

[proud cobalt]

A door isn't an entrance, a door frame and a window frame are

[woven portal]

so the door should also then be removed?

[proud cobalt]

A door is the opposite of an entrance, it prevents entering

[digital helm]

I think the game's definition of things is what's making it confusing. Since a doorframe is considered a door

[woven portal]

???

[proud cobalt]

#pzwiki_editing message

[woven portal]

when a door is open, it is an entrance

when a door is closed its not

[digital helm]

is the door the entrance, or the doorway?

[proud cobalt]

No it's an open door, the door frame is the entrance

[woven portal]

ok we're getting philosophical here

[digital helm]

I think that's Calvy's point

[woven portal]

why not remove the door then

where are you gonna put it

[proud cobalt]

#pzwiki_editing message

[woven portal]

yes i saw that message calvy

that wasnt my question

[proud cobalt]

Depends where it is in the context menu

Probably other

I don't have the game in front of me

[woven portal]

its in door

the same as the Double door

[proud cobalt]

Double door is in fence as it's the same as the big double pole gate with a different sprite

It's obviously a fence gate

Just had a bad name

[woven portal]

its not in the carpentry menu

its under door

[proud cobalt]

No door section in the Navbox

Put it in other if you really want

Or add a door section

[woven portal]

how do you do that

[proud cobalt]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Gate

[proud cobalt]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Navbox_construction

[woven portal]

yes i posted that earlier

[digital helm]

Would you want to put the metal gates under entrances then too? Or fence?

[woven portal]

yes, but i dont see why metalwork and carpentry need to follow each other

they should go under doors though

separate section is better indeed

[digital helm]

why wouldn't they need to be consistent?

[woven portal]

because as i showed earlier it makes wooden double door stand out by itself

door in first section, the taller fence walls that are meant for the double door in the first section, double door in second, half fences only in second

this is somehow more consistent?

by this logic, log wall should be in the second section

[digital helm]

I think having a door section would avoid this issue

[woven portal]

^

[digital helm]

then gates and doors can go in there. I think @languid kayak was part of the previous discussion

[proud cobalt]

Apologies, I've been a bit over hostile. I'm tired at work and work is completely wrecked. Let me restart.

The double door is in fences because 1: it was already categorised there previously 2: it aligns with the metal fence gate naming scheme 3: when I was working on it I felt they fit best as gates as that's how they're mostly used.

I didn't make the generic articles nor add them to the Navbox. I have no issue with re-evaluating them and adding a new section if felt required

[woven portal]

i think separating doors and gates will avoid it for both metalworking and carpentry

as in, doors and gates in one section

[proud cobalt]

Actually I did make door, I didn't make gate

[digital helm]

I'm happy with this

[woven portal]

im at work rn so can't get on it

[digital helm]

I think it's fine on the gates page for the reasons you said. It's functionally a gate. Not like the other doors. Also it uses ISDoubleDoor just like the metal double gates

[digital helm]

I can do it

[woven portal]

thanks

[woven portal]

yeah i have no problem with it being on the gate page

it is a gate, i was looking for "gate", then for "door" in the entrances, thats why i missed wooden double door lol

[proud cobalt]

If all the openable craftables (doors, gates, double doors) are put into one place then Id be happy with that

[digital helm]

I'm moving log wall into fences too. Since it can be climbed over like other fences. I think wall = can't be climbed over, and fence = can

[proud cobalt]

That definition would include wooden walls too 🤔

[woven portal]

you can climb the walls from wallframes too tho no?

[digital helm]

oh... really?

[proud cobalt]

Yeah

[digital helm]

had no idea 😄

[woven portal]

the wooden walls we make kinda act like both fences and structure walls

[proud cobalt]

Then you could say anything with wall in the name, but that would include sandbag walls

[digital helm]

Leaving it where it is then... I don't want to overcomplicate things...

[proud cobalt]

Which aren't really the spirit of the category

Would be nice if you could spike the top of log walls like you can in the forest

[digital helm]

oh true, that'd be good. Things like traps and defenses are a bit lacking

We have things like campfire, tent kit, broken glass, and window in carpentry too. I'm guessing they can wait until b42, since this'll need to be reworked anyway

how's this? https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Navbox_construction

[woven portal]

nice, i think it should go between wall and fences though

just looks better

its too barren to be top, plus thats how its laid out in the ingame carpentry menu

[robust latch]

Can anyone here claim to have somewhat decent baseball knowledge? I am really struggling to dig out real-life baseball trivia or information out of 5 baseball home VHS tapes.

Here are some names of teams if it rings any bells: Mothballs, Hurricanes, Honey Bears, Rangers

[woven portal]

i know chat gpt isnt accurate, but you could use it to assist your understanding of it

with some crossreferencing using a search engine

[robust latch]

Players: Gaston Joe Johnson Damon Terry

[robust latch]

Duely noted, it's just that I am not really enthusiastic about real life references about baseball, so I am really hoping to get a short cut solution lol

[woven portal]

no baseball knowledge from my side unfortunately

[robust latch]

Nonetheless I thank you for the suyggestioın bruv

I guess I will finish the tapes first and only then look for trivia's

[proud cobalt]

Texas rangers, but I think they're all just made up no actual trivia

[robust latch]

Yeah you might be right, too bad we will never know unless with a through reaserch because the writer wants to be confidential 😄

[naive imp]

I've decided to remove interior shots of chains as the coordinates are more obvious. With singular locations the interior shots are more obvious due to them being in the gallery, and coords only in the infobox.

The coords are a lot more visible on chains due to the use of {{building multi location}}

I like this idea

[naive imp]

Gonna use a mod to revert that change, real stupid imo

[naive imp]

I gotchu

[languid kayak]

so remove that?

[naive imp]

The pharmahugInt yeag

If I find any more I'll mark em for ya

[naive imp]

All those sound made up to me. Texas rangers is likely a pure coincidence

Am American know a bit about baseball

[robust latch]

That is a relief to hear. There are also these players, which hardly refer to anything I think, but still;
Gaston
Joe Johnson
Damon
Terry
Dijkstra
Caleb
Sigmundsson
Gomez Todd
Ingalls
Langdon
Allomar
I guess they are all random?

In any case the baseball VHSs are done

[proud cobalt]

Ok so ive gotten a script that will automatically add the revision ID of the last article updated to stable for users who will still be on B41 during IWBUMS. So when the bot updates codeboxes and infoboxes, do we think it should update the page version to current? That way theres no confusion on the numbers in the infobox, even if not all the content in the article has been updated?

I feel like we need a way to tell a user that the article hasnt been updated (Likely page version) but the infobox has been. Currently the infobox version is a hidden parameter. Maybe it should be visible during IWBUMS then disabled again when stable? @languid kayak @digital helm

https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=User:Calvy/sandbox2&diff=435305&oldid=435303

[digital helm]

Oh true... I'd forgotten about changing the infoboxes... If we change page version then every item is going to be 42.

I worry having too much of "this has been updated, but that hasn't" could be too confusing and messy...

But if we did it, I'd stick it in page version. A single place for all of it

[proud cobalt]

Yeah its a bit difficult when between versions

[digital helm]

Maybe just a little disclaimer in page version when it's 41.78.16, that says "Infobox has been updated to {{current version|iwbums}}"

Which could be a problem with your revision sceipt

[proud cobalt]

The way its coded it shouldnt be to bad, would just need to test it

[digital helm]

Might need an example, so we can visualise it. I'll think about it over the weekend

[proud cobalt]

@robust latch ItemName_Base.Shirt_Baseball_Rangers = "Riverside Rangers Baseball Shirt", from the translation files. Rangers is the Riverside Rangers

Heres all 3

    ItemName_Base.Shirt_Baseball_Rangers = "Riverside Rangers Baseball Shirt",
    ItemName_Base.Shirt_Baseball_Z = "Z Hurricanes Baseball Shirt",```

[languid kayak]

Maybe when b41 goes stable
That'd make it like 2 years ago 😉

[languid kayak]

the fences/tall fences are kinda confusing too I guess? At least I remember the carpentry section wasn't so clear about

Basically there's two types of fences

1. The half-height ones you can always jump through
2. The full-height ones you can only jump if you pass the strength/etc. check and you drop carried items – this includes walls without roof, such as log walls or regular walls without roof (including the preexisting tiles.

Then on top of that, some can be thumpable, some not, some can be dismantled some not, some can be be seen-through (metal fences), some not. So yeah.

[languid kayak]

but last time I checked, the walls can also be climbed over too? Unless I'm mistaken (nvm, I saw you got onto it later)

[languid kayak]

Two of those are in-game teams:

See https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Baseball_Helmet (which I think will be split eventually into separate pages) and the t-shirt decals

• Z Hurricanes https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Sport_BaseBallZDECAL.png
• Riverside Rangers https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Sport_BaseBallRangersDECAL.png

[languid kayak]

We can make infobox being updated visible?

There's also distribution and codes section… Not mentioning things like the models and icon changing (though this, as well as name should be easily picked up from the code change, I guess)

[languid kayak]

oh right and the shirts Calvy menitoned, I couldn't remember if off the top of my head, but I knew there was something else 😛

[proud cobalt]

Code is self contained as it has a retrieved param. I figure we do the same somewhere in Infobox? Just show a retrieved somewhere? Don't know where we could put it to look good and be visible at the same time though

@digital helm was thinking of an addition to page version. I'm unsure which way would be best

[languid kayak]

Yeah, I think if it'd be possible to have one template for all (page version or something else), it'd be great

like
The page has been updated to version xx, the infobox has been updated to version xy, the distribution has been updated to version xz, the code has been updated to version xa

Just less wordy and more concise 😄

[digital helm]

I'm kind of against indicating the infobox version. Just seems too messy. Would we then want to add one to indicate when the crafting was updated? A simple disclaimer in page version would be enough imo. Something saying "Some details in this page has been updated automatically to build 42". Could have the page version there, if @proud cobalt wanted to include in the infobox script.
Code is fine imo, because it's hidden.

[digital helm]

I think that's too much personally... People are going to get confused. They'll barely read the main "updated to this version" bit

[languid kayak]

That'd work too

(some details bit)

[proud cobalt]

To clarify, do you want to add this to stable or unstable page version?

I think when B42 drops, we add it to stable, that way editors still have a way of knowing what pages need to be updated or not

[digital helm]

we might need to do both. Since when b42 comes around, you'll run the script and it'll be b42 details in the infobox

[proud cobalt]

I think it's best if the script doesn't change page version. I think that should be left to editors when a page is completely updated

Because that's how we track

[digital helm]

Yeah, I agree

[proud cobalt]

OK cool just want to make sure we're on the same page. No need to add it to unstable as we have a link to stable revision

[digital helm]

So it'd need another parameter then {{{3}}}

[proud cobalt]

Add it to all of them. No param needed

[digital helm]

So you don't want to specify the version in the disclaimer? "Parts of this page have been automatically updated to: {page_version}"
Just have it generic like: "Parts of this page may have been automatically updated to b42."

[proud cobalt]

Yep 100%. The second B42 unstable drops, I expect to run Infobox and code scripts same day. So let's just put it on every page. "Parts of this article may have been automatically updated to the latest release."

Then the usual "You can help by updating this page"

[digital helm]

Sounds good. Keeps it simple 😄

[proud cobalt]

And I expect to do this throughout all of B42 (poor CalvyBot is gonna have 200k edits if it has anywhere near the builds of B41)

[digital helm]

better than being done manually!

[proud cobalt]

@languid kayak thoughts? Let's keep it simple and generic. Informs users and let's editors track articles

[proud cobalt]

"Latest build" may be more in line with TIS language

[digital helm]

Happy with that. b42 was just placeholder

[proud cobalt]

Sweet, could you add it to B42 project so we don't forget if you get a chance? I'm on mobile, idk how I used to edit like this

[digital helm]

done https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Project_Build_42_Preparation#Automations

Is this going to be a problem with your b41 revision link? @proud cobalt or should you just run it once first (before all the others) when b42 first drops and never again?
Since people still on b41 would be following that link specifically for a b41 version of the page

[proud cobalt]

Hmm fair point. Yes it will be a problem. I hadn't thought of that.

It wouldn't work as is running it before as it only changes pages that aren't on the stable build. The idea was to run it every few days to a week to add revision links to updated pages.

But I can fix it and change it to be something to run beforehand

I'll just get it to do all pages with a page version except the few I have blacklisted

[digital helm]

bit annoying that you have to change it now though, since you basically had it finalised 😄

[proud cobalt]

It'll keep the logic simple, grab the current page revision, put it into the page version. I suppose we should show the page revision on stable pages too then? After the disclaimer

This might be too much info In one place. Now that we have proper automation tools, maybe we should have a transitional template that is added during times like this. Can go straight under page version. Show all these disclaimers, links to revisions etc. Then they can all go when we start getting stable B42 releases?

That way everything can go in one pass

Since I have to fix the revision script anyway, it could all all of these at once when we get to/near iwbums

Can be reused for B43, might be worth it?

[languid kayak]

yeah, seems fine

btw, we have a lot of handy info for fishing: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Talk:Fishing – which is great, especially for achiving the old fishing before fishing revamp in b42

[digital helm]

I think that's @neon bone

Very helpful info. Same with farming

[languid kayak]

Added verify to https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Deaf – have to check if deaf players can wake from alarms? I genuinely don't know lol

btw this: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Blacksmith should probably be changed as the skill is not present in what we were teased: https://projectzomboid.com/blog/content/uploads/2024/07/Captura-de-tela-2024-07-19-124318.png

It's Metalworking and Melding, which is where what was present in Blacksmith will likely go

Also, was it called "Blacksmith" or "Smithing" in the game? First random mod I searched: https://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/?id=1997530421

[proud cobalt]

I believe the new system will become metalworking and the current system will become welding

[languid kayak]

more or less I guess, yeah. my note on b42 project could be reworded 😛

[proud cobalt]

Thoughts on this Faal?
#pzwiki_editing message

[languid kayak]

Didn't we have something simialar in b41 @digital helm ?

[digital helm]

Sorry, I missed this. We had {{Testing}} which was kind of like this. But we didn't have Page version back then (version was in the header). I had hoped page version would remove the need for anything else. Hence why it's technically a different template that gets displayed when it's b42
Also keep in mind b41 was in unstable for a couple of years before going to stable the first time (although there were much bigger core changes)

actually, Testing was basically what we have for page version if it's newer than Current version https://pzwiki.net/wiki/User:Vaileasys/sandbox_4

my worry is having too much stuff at the top of the page that 99% of people won't read and will just scroll past.

but idk, maybe another mbox for this would be good?

[digital helm]

I think it's worth waiting for b42 release. Although I doubt it'd change before then, there's no rush to change it right now

[proud cobalt]

We shouldn't discount B42 being unstable for quite a while. Particularly with a split Crafting system now. I agree with your concerns. I already think we give users too much credit in actually reading Mboxes. I just don't know what the solution is 🤔

Each solution has its drawbacks. Some for users, some for editors.

[digital helm]

Honestly, I think page version with the disclaimer and revision link will be enough. It's never going to be perfect

a mockup will be easy to put together to see how it fits

[digital helm]

Here each of them are https://pzwiki.net/wiki/User:Vaileasys/sandbox_5 @proud cobalt @languid kayak

btw, this was inspired by the oni wiki (fandom ) https://oxygennotincluded.fandom.com/wiki/Template:Version#Usage

[languid kayak]

They moved to wiki.gg https://oxygennotincluded.wiki.gg/wiki/Template:Version#Usage

but it looks nice 🎉

The IWBUMS that links to Steam, I have to take a look how IWBUMS looks like with GOG 🤔

[digital helm]

that'd explain why every page said outdated 😄 thank you

[languid kayak]

I think https://getindie.wiki/ supports wiki.gg redirects too but I also have https://www.wiki.gg/redirect installed 🙂

btw, totally unrelated, but just figured today that we should add rank info to https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Discord – Specialist, Survivor etc. They can be checked with /rank by Lurkr bot in #general_chat but also on https://lurkr.gg/levels/projectzomboid – I know there was a table bot posted, but can't find it.

Survivor and Builder ranks are required to post images in some channels and some ranks are required to have access to some channels too. There's id:customize too, with the wiki editor giving access to @Wiki Editor pings (mostly monthly summaries).

oh nvm, leaderboard has it

1 - Recruit
5 - Builder
10 - Survivor
18 - Specialist
25 - Veteran

btw @digital helm are trait names supposed to be sentence case or title case? Like in the description or linking? https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Adrenaline_Junkie

I guess sentence case, similar to skills and occupations?

[proud cobalt]

This is good. I'll adjust the revision bit to add it to all pages just before B42 comes out, then when the changeover is made all the templates are preloaded with the revision.

[proud cobalt]

How do they show in game

[proud cobalt]

Half a level off veteran for you

[languid kayak]

yeah 😄 I think they got changed at one point to be higher. Pretty much all's from chatting here 😄

[glad moat]

Did you know you can customize the progress bar in your leveling card? Use /colour to learn more!

[proud cobalt]

I didn't think thatd show

[proud cobalt]

It was probably 15 for specialist and 20 for veteran?

[languid kayak]

maybe? Also /rank works here?

[languid kayak]

huh

[proud cobalt]

Lol

[glad moat]

Want to get a free 20% leveling boost? Use /vote to vote for Lurkr and enjoy the boost for 24 hours!

[proud cobalt]

Exposing secrets

[languid kayak]

huh, for some reason I can't rank you @proud cobalt? Changes to your user ID and shows just my rank no matter what

I wanted to see if the Want to get a free 20% leveling boost? Use /vote to vote for Lurkr and enjoy the boost for 24 hours! displays only when you didn't vote for bot (I did)

[proud cobalt]

Weird. Are you using Calvy or piousgalaxy?

[languid kayak]

tried both

[digital helm]

This is capitalised in-game https://github.com/TheIndieStone/ProjectZomboidTranslations/blob/master/EN/UI_EN.txt#L667
So if we follow current style guide, it'd be capitalised

same for skills https://github.com/TheIndieStone/ProjectZomboidTranslations/blob/master/EN/IG_UI_EN.txt#L186
and occupations https://github.com/TheIndieStone/ProjectZomboidTranslations/blob/master/EN/UI_EN.txt#L270

[languid kayak]

for page names yeah but in text sentence case, right? Since they are not a proper nouns

[digital helm]

oh...

sentence?

Since they're not considered proper nouns IRL, they'd be sentence case

[proud cobalt]

I ended up splitting paint today, this was one of the big ones
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Paint

[digital helm]

Sweet! Aren't they all pretty tedious though? 😄

I've made it so weight isn't displayed if it equals -

[proud cobalt]

The magazines aren't bad, but paint was 17 additional pages, the codebox didnt have each code snip, and there was about 700 lines of distribution

[proud cobalt]

Just updated for me, looks good

[proud cobalt]

But man it looks better with one distro box per article

[digital helm]

oh true, those distribution tables are brutal to scroll through...

[proud cobalt]

I ended up marking this for improvement, didnt have the info available for me to get it up to standards

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Paint_Bucket

I would also like to move it to Empty Paint Bucket but as it also has the water bucket I wanted feedback on that. From @languid kayak too

[digital helm]

water containers are weird... I'd say it's fine where it is, until we have name changes and new liquid system

[neon bone]

I never added that info to the main page, so feel free to do so if you'd like!

[languid kayak]

If you want, that'd be great, else note to self (unless someone else want to :P)

But thanks a lot for all the contributions ❤️

[languid kayak]

Splitting is tedious yeah 😄 I went through this back when I was splitting some other pages (forgot which ones)

[languid kayak]

on one hand yeah, on the other hand it would be nice to have them settled for b41 so we have clear state 😄 That's probably why I was happy that @neon bone went through the farming and parts of fishing

[neon bone]

Luckily for me the code for farming and fishing were done in Lua so I didn't need to decompile the java to look at it haha. I could just use VSCode to search the lua codebase for where the code hooks together.

[languid kayak]

I didn't test that, but I suppose it's correct? https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Electrical&curid=6728&diff=433939&oldid=427231

[neon bone]

I have it open so I'll test real quick.

[lucid junco]

You can dismantle tv's?

[neon bone]

I dismantled 16 TV's and only ever got 0.5 XP each.

[neon bone]

Seems correct.

[languid kayak]

Yeah, either when they are placed just like any other item or from inventory's right click

[lucid junco]

So its just a clarification then

Since tvs aren't in electronics category

[languid kayak]

I assume radios, ham radios and walkie talkies contribute too https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Electrical&type=revision&diff=435571&oldid=433939

[lucid junco]

They arent included in electronics page?

Weird

[languid kayak]

@proud cobalt isn't it tools with https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Flowerbed&curid=41463&diff=434013&oldid=427477 DigPlow tag? https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Item_tags#DigPlow

(same with other plants)

or things like these: https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Battered_Gravestone&curid=42603&diff=434037&oldid=433091

or https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Train_Signal&curid=43815&diff=434053&oldid=431505

I think this has a wrong icon btw? https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Wheat

btw, stupid question: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Disambiguation_pages – do we need each page to end with (disambiguation)? Seems there's no conflicts except for Egg (which I think shouldn't be a disambig and just {{About}} on Egg should do the job)

oh and https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Magazine

and https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Ring

and https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Sugar 😄

btw, I seem to have broken some links when making space for new animals: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Trap_(disambiguation)

[languid kayak]

(and https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Water_Bottle )

[woven portal]

yeah can confirm they give fuck all xp

[languid kayak]

Actually, I've been patrolling these https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Exposure_Survival_E4#Trivia – but isn't it self-explanatory? I always expected the VHS are 1-to-1 verbatim copy of what's on the TV?

or do we want those trivias to be added to other shows too?

It's everything by https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:Contributions/DeathBringer138

Though I guess it's handy? Especially the date/hour parts

pinging @robust latch for that

[woven portal]

i am a fan of the date/hour part

maybe just reword it

we know it doesnt just appear to be identical, it is

[neon bone]

If I remember the code, it is literally identical.

[woven portal]

Something like "The VHS is recorded from the broadcast on Life and Living TV, on July 12, 1993 18:00 – 23:30."

if someone already went to the trouble of checking the time and date for it, i dont think its a bad idea to keep it

[languid kayak]

good point

[neon bone]

The lines from the broadcast each have a unique ID and those ID's are referenced in the recorded_media.lua file to grant XP for the correct line.

[woven portal]

funny that you gain xp twice even if you watched the broadcast though

[languid kayak]

yeah, we had it mentioned here, Pat said that the XP will be capped in b42, so little less issue, but I wonder if the actual 2x gains will be changed?

For the same reason watching TV doesn't affect the knowledge of VHS being marked

(here btw: #pzwiki_editing message )

(changing topics, but that's actually nice edit! https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Brandenburg&curid=36157&diff=434495&oldid=434463)

[neon bone]

It is because VHS' have a flag triggered when watching that makes it so that you cannot watch the same VHS for XP. This does not exist for broadcasts, hence the 2x XP.

[woven portal]

ye, i know why it is but its funny that its a thing

[neon bone]

Found that the Louisville page is missing this:
https://theindiestone.com/forums/index.php?/topic/43067-4161-released-4160-changelog-inside/&tab=comments#comment-327937

There is no mention of radio scrambling in the Louisville page.

[languid kayak]

huh, that's interesting indeed

[neon bone]

The only page that seems to message scrambling is the AEBS page that mentions weather-related scrambling.

[languid kayak]

pinned for now, least we don't forget 😄

https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Traits&curid=3704&diff=435117&oldid=418477

This should probably be added as well

[neon bone]

Do we know if nutrients is affected by your character's gender?

[robust latch]

It is good to have it explained in some way. Although I must admit this information definetely doesn't belong to the Trivia, and is an overview sentence, atleast thats how I had dealt with shows that have TV counterparts. About 1-1 argument, yes some VHSs are exact 1-1 with the TV show, some of them are almost 1-1(There can be slight wording changes or missing&extra sentences in VHS tapes), and some just doesnt have a TV&Radio correspondance at all.
These VHS tapes doesn't have a TV verison for example: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Dangerous_Strangers_with_Jemima_Bunny
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Brushing_Your_Teeth_with_Zachary_Bunny

The ones that have a TV version, are relayed like so: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/QUIZ_SHOWS
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/DAD'S_TAPE_DO_NOT_TOUCH

[robust latch]

I dont think so

[neon bone]

   public void update() {
      if (!GameServer.bServer) {
         if (SandboxOptions.instance.Nutrition.getValue()) {
            if (this.parent != null && !this.parent.isDead()) {
               if (!GameClient.bClient || this.parent.isLocalPlayer()) {
                  this.setCarbohydrates(this.getCarbohydrates() - (this.isFemale ? this.carbohydratesDecreraseFemale : this.carbohydratesDecreraseMale) * GameTime.getInstance().getGameWorldSecondsSinceLastUpdate());
                  this.setLipids(this.getLipids() - (this.isFemale ? this.lipidsDecreraseFemale : this.lipidsDecreraseMale) * GameTime.getInstance().getGameWorldSecondsSinceLastUpdate());
                  this.setProteins(this.getProteins() - (this.isFemale ? this.proteinsDecreraseFemale : this.proteinsDecreraseMale) * GameTime.getInstance().getGameWorldSecondsSinceLastUpdate());
                  this.updateCalories();
                  this.updateWeight();
               }
            }
         }
      }
   }

Am I reading this wrong?

[languid kayak]

@robust latch not sure if it helps, but https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=TDTOE

The Devs Thought Of Everything
?

https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=TDTOE&curid=26731&diff=435209&oldid=433593

[neon bone]

It seems like they have support for it at least?

[languid kayak]

I think it was briefly there, but removed

[robust latch]

OH thats good

[languid kayak]

https://theindiestone.com/forums/index.php?/topic/18102-released-build-3410-food-tracker-build/page/5/#comment-223280

[neon bone]

   private float lipidsDecreraseFemale = 7.0E-4F;
   private float lipidsDecreraseMale = 0.00113F;

Unless they are using different code now, that doesn't seem to be the case.

[robust latch]

Nice these will make some good trivia

[neon bone]

   private float caloriesDecreraseFemaleNormal = 0.016F;
   private float caloriesDecreaseMaleNormal = 0.016F;
   private float caloriesDecreraseFemaleExercise = 0.13F;
   private float caloriesDecreaseMaleExercise = 0.13F;
   private float caloriesDecreraseFemaleSleeping = 0.003F;
   private float caloriesDecreaseMaleSleeping = 0.003F;

For a lot of the important things it seems to be the same for both genders. It seems to be mainly nutrients which we can't really see.

I'll do a quick test in debug skipping roughly a day to see what happens

[flat sun]

isFemale is never set to true

[neon bone]

Just tested, nutrition is identical after 24 in-game hours.

[lucid junco]

@robust latch @languid kayak To what extend do we count something as lore providing?

I dont think there is any lore in ere apart from adverts

[lucid junco]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/The_Signs_of_Satanism
this one is definitely a reference to the Satanism hysteria during 80s-00s

To be more specific, to those weird messages that said Metallica is demon's music and other things

[lucid junco]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/One_Eighty_(darts)#Trivia
Britain's only darts-themed game show... big prize.. gambling...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullseye_(British_game_show)#Bully's_Star_Prize_Gamble

I think its a reference to this one

[neon bone]

First Aid apparently has a lot of undocumented interactions. I went and added it to the First Aid talk page
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Talk:First_Aid

[woven portal]

What shows arent 1-1 to their TV counterparts? I don't think I have seen them? at least for the L&L channel

[robust latch]

For instance this VHS https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Albert_Wellen_QC_S2.01 and this TV show https://pzwiki.net/wiki/TURBO#July_10_1993 are the same

[woven portal]

they are, but what ones are different?

sorry if youre about to post it and I messaged ahead of time

[robust latch]

No worries I wasnt

[robust latch]

There are some home VHSs and retail VHSs that have their counterparts in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PawsTV, some of these VHSs are from "Hug Bunnies" show and some are from "Magical Woodland": https://pzwiki.net/wiki/The_Magical_Woodland_E1, https://pzwiki.net/wiki/The_Magical_Woodland_E2, https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Dad's_shows and so on. But also, in the text you have replied me with has two tapes that are from the "Hug Bunnies" "universe", despite that, they are not present in the PawsTV or any other media

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Dangerous_Strangers_with_Jemima_Bunny --> unique home vhs tape that has a hug bunnies show, which doesnt appear on any tv or radio

[woven portal]

Yeah, it makes sense than vhs taped shows arent present on the TV though, since they could have been recorded pre 9th july

[robust latch]

Most of them are recorded before the shit hit the fan

Oh btw I just misread your first sentence as "are" instead of "aren't" lol

[digital helm]

Specifying tv here is redundant, isn't it? It says "dismantling electronics devices", but a television is an electronics device. A link to the list of devices (radio, walkie talkie, etc.) may be better

nvm, you've changed that 😄

[digital helm]

Anything that adds to the story, characters, or setting/environment is part of the lore. So an advert is part of the lore

[digital helm]

Having (disambiguation) in the title, funnily enough, helps remove the ambiguity 😄
Where there's only a couple, I don't think a disambig page is necessary, a link to the other page(s) in {{About}} is enough. I assume that's what you've done with egg.

[proud cobalt]

Hmm seems it is, I never saw any reference to DigPlow in the code or tiledefs 🤔. Something I could fix with the bot

[proud cobalt]

Unsure what to do with pages like this. I dont think this warrants a generic page, the item names are different, theres only two varaints, and theyll have variants sections on the pages. Best to delete IMO
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Angler_USA_Magazine

[digital helm]

I agree. We already have 'recipe magazines'

[proud cobalt]

Ok the big four electronics pages are split. Television, Radio, Ham Radio, and Walkie Talkie. Generic pages left in their place with linking to individual pages, along with variant sections.
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Television
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Radio
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Ham_Radio
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Walkie_Talkie

On the fence about splitting these. Thoughts? @languid kayak @digital helm

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Smoke_Bomb
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Pipe_Bomb
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Fire_Bomb
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Aerosol_Bomb

[digital helm]

I'm on the fence too... and if so, would the different sensor variants be split? And would all the upgrades info be on the individual pages for the upgrades, or the "Smoke Bomb" page? 🤔
Leaving as is may be simplest imo. But if Faal or others want it split, I'm fine with that too. Just don't know what info would be split... without repeating it too much. Since the upgrades info is relevant for the standard item, and the upgrade

[proud cobalt]

Hmm. The main goal of splitting was for better automation, so should be fine to leave these IMO. A generic page doesn't make sense, and 6 pages for an item is excessive

This can just be one of the few pages that can be updated manually

[digital helm]

May need to revisit in b42, since I imagine this idea of 'upgrading' will become more prominent. See Metal Baseball Bat, and Metal Baseball Bat with Sawblade. Best to wait and see if necessary

[proud cobalt]

True this is kind of a sneak peak lol. Will be interesting to see what happens

[languid kayak]

you mean the description in the beginning of the page? Well, it kinda builds the world around, so anything can be stretched to "lore" I guess, but if you think it should be reworded, then I don't think it'll be a problem either.

[lucid junco]

I just dont know what and if I need to reword it to

[languid kayak]

nah, didn't touch egg yet, but it's https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Egg_(disambiguation) but https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Egg

Generally disambig should be 3+ pages I think

though I bet some exceptions could be made

[languid kayak]

Would be weird if it'd be hardcoded after they added tags, though maybe it is and they just never got to it? Or it's indeed called in some odd place

[languid kayak]

(disambiguation) I guess

[languid kayak]

We already have spears split, I think these should be fine? Not that many of them after all too (three variants of sensors + remote + timer + regular)

[languid kayak]

Yeah, we'll get a basic crafting for b42, but I wonder how upgrading will look like eventually. We already had liquid system, and we know we'll have the separate condition for weapon heads, so not straighforward item changing into another already for these.

[languid kayak]

I wouldn't worry too much either, saw Vail responding too 😛 #pzwiki_editing message

[digital helm]

yeah, more than 3. Which is all the About template can handle

[digital helm]

My problem is how they're split. Since the upgrading info is relevant to the general page (Aerosol Bomb) and the upgrade page (Aerosol Bomb with Timer), but only for the specific upgrade
Or do we just copy it all?

[languid kayak]

@digital helm Do you think we we can gut out the incver out of https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Retrieved and especially https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:CodeSnip (it's still in examples), realized it caused https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Talk:First_Aid to get categorized 😛

I removed the usage out of the few remaining pages by searching for it https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&search=incver

Now it's just non-English help pages that has it (they should be updated, but maybe I'll just remove it there) and mostly inactive user pages

[languid kayak]

and it seems you can't find the updated variants anyway? At least for smoke bomb there's just one table

[digital helm]

Done. Sorry, I'm intended to do that a long time ago 🙂

[digital helm]

can't find them, but can make them

[languid kayak]

yeah, so no extra distribution tables per page 🤔

[digital helm]

Was talking about this info btw https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Aerosol_Bomb#Upgrades
So, the "Sensor upgrade" section would need to be on the "Aerosol Bomb" page AND the "Aerosol Bomb with Sensor".
Are we ok with that?

[languid kayak]

I still think it might be better to have them split, though I'd have to see about the duplicated info

[digital helm]

ok, that's fine. Looking at it, it could probably be skimmed down anyway

I might do that today if I have time, or at least start one of them

[languid kayak]

also, can't we just link from one page to another to avoid maintaing same text twice?

[digital helm]

My problem is that you'd go to the sensor page for info about that item. For it to be missing is a bit odd to me. Since that's a feature specific to that item.
I think it could be skimmed down though. Maybe I'll do one and we'll see

[languid kayak]

Yeah, I mean then instead of having the text on both pages, maybe just say: "For information about upgrades, see [[link#section]]" or something like that? Though I guess I'll have to read the pages to see if that'd work 😄

[languid kayak]

(just user pages btw now 🎉 https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&search=incver)

I just realized btw,
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Angler_USA_Magazine_Vol._1

Seems the name is just "Angler USA", so "magazine" should be lowercase?

in sentence cases?

[digital helm]

I get ya. Just not a big fan of that, at least in this case. Since it seems some info can actually be split

[digital helm]

Depends on if we want to be going off the model textures. I think it's best to keep it simple, and just recognise the item's name as what it's called

[languid kayak]

ELETRONICS
😄

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:MagazineElectronics3_Model.png

Plus the icon is vol. 3

Also, what does it say; "budding"?

All are like that btw:
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:MagazineElectronics1_Model.png
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:MagazineElectronics2_Model.png
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:MagazineElectronics3_Model.png

[digital helm]

"For the budding Electronics enthusiast"

vold 3 and 4 use the same model

[languid kayak]

Yeah, icons are shared too

so they are a little messed up 😄

Not sure if it isn't already changed for b42, we'll see I guess

Till then, I'll add it to trivia I guess.

This one seems to be vol. 7, as it's July, though I doubt we'll get more, but interesting neverheless
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:MagazineGenerator1_Model.png

(also called "Generator Monthly")

If they were a monthly issue why they are so damn hard to find 😄

[digital helm]

Sure must get boring after a few months

[digital helm]

Fine with this actually, now that I look at it, if you want to start changing it. Otherwise fine being capitalised

@languid kayak would you split the different sensor upgrades? Again, having the info on one page would be better 🤔

For the traps/bombs

[languid kayak]

I would, but I'm biased and not always right 😄

[digital helm]

Me too, I'm always changing my mind. You saw the way I tried to categorise images in the past 😄

[digital helm]

How's this? I've trimmed down the info on the main page (Aerosol Bomb) and moved the in-depth info to the dedicated pages.
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Aerosol_Bomb
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Remote_Aerosol_Bomb
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Aerosol_Bomb_with_Timer
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Aerosol_Bomb_with_Sensor

I'm unsure what to do with the sensor. It's got 3 tiers, but they're all called the same thing. So if we split them, what would "Aerosol Bomb with Sensor" have on it? I'm not sure a meta/list page fits here. @proud cobalt too

[languid kayak]

3 pages for Aeroson Bolb with Sensor I guess?

btw, I updated https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Recipe_magazines – turned out the page required more changes to the ll usage we did on other pages 😛

Anyway, it still uses https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:RecipeMagazineAnim_120px.gif – I'd like to replace it to a non-animated image, easier to maintain, beside we don't carry 120px upscaled images anymore, but what should I use?

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Skill_books doesn't have infobox at all.

Also used on https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Fuel btw

[digital helm]

infobox can probably go, on this page. It isn't there on similar list pages

[languid kayak]

btw, vol numer seems not to work in the infobox @digital helm https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Angler_USA_Magazine_Vol._1

[robust latch]

This is a small, insignificant inconvinence but for some reason when I first open the wiki I am not logged in and only after clicking something I am logged in. Does anyone else have the same issue?

[woven portal]

yeah, i have to click log in and i cant do it on a specific wiki page, has to be on the main wiki page

[lucid junco]

I do

And it isnt so small inconvenience for me

It sometimes takes me five minutes to log in

[robust latch]

Interesting

[languid kayak]

Something Kirrus would probably have to take a look… I don't have issues on my side though

Might be region-dependent, too

[languid kayak]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Trap_Crate and https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Trap_Box recipes doesn't mention https://pzwiki.net/wiki/The_Hunter_Magazine_Vol._2 and https://pzwiki.net/wiki/The_Hunter_Magazine_Vol._3 – I guess it's something we have to fix?

[languid kayak]

other than that, probably did me longer than it should, but I did some cleanups to the magazines following the splitting 🙂

[languid kayak]

Seems we'd need separate models for the now-split Bowling Shirts

I'll try to mark them, but if not at least letting you know 🙂

[digital helm]

Recipes need to be looked at closer. A lot haven't been checked since before b41

I'll pop on my to-do. I was also going to look at parsing the recipes, but that might have to come later

[languid kayak]

I still wish the recipes would be auto-imported, along with the names, as those are not on the wiki

[digital helm]

They'll probably all need a second pass

[languid kayak]

Well, already done 😄

But a lot of links should be updated accross the wiki following the splitting

I update them when I see them

[digital helm]

It's very tedious to add and update recipes

[digital helm]

Oh, you did all the ones Calvy has split?

[languid kayak]

The magazines I did, the clothing I didn't

only some

[languid kayak]

@robust latch you think those are Honeybears? https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Payneville_Honeybears.png

btw, here's some missing clothes from a zombie I just killed in Fossoil Field

so you can assemble the missing parts 😄

Seems the outfits are also here: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Baseball_(story)

These outfits are relevant too (from Vail's post I pinned here)

outfit: BaseballFan_KY
guid: 4310e63e-105c-47b3-b140-c8dd6f122b28
items: Hat_BaseballCapKY, Hat_BaseballCapKY_Reverse, Shirt_Baseball_KY, Socks_Ankle, Socks_Long, Shoes_TrainerTINT, Trousers_DefaultTEXTURE_TINT
subitems: Hat_BaseballCapKY_Reverse, Socks_Long

outfit: BaseballFan_Rangers
guid: cf848bfb-3b59-4b61-bf9d-79361abe4a1f
items: Hat_BaseballCapGreen, Hat_BaseballCapGreen_Reverse, Shirt_Baseball_Rangers, Socks_Ankle, Socks_Long, Shoes_TrainerTINT, Trousers_DefaultTEXTURE_TINT
subitems: Hat_BaseballCapGreen_Reverse, Socks_Long

outfit: BaseballFan_Z
guid: 2906e66f-d282-44fc-9937-d9bf4a1a96d2
items: Hat_BaseballCapBlue, Hat_BaseballCapBlue_Reverse, Shirt_Baseball_Z, Socks_Ankle, Socks_Long, Shoes_TrainerTINT, Trousers_DefaultTEXTURE_TINT
subitems: Hat_BaseballCapBlue_Reverse, Socks_Long

outfit: BaseballPlayer_KY
guid: 003f6782-c24b-47ef-9c6b-7d069e3b2224
items: Hat_BaseballHelmet_KY, Shirt_Baseball_KY, Socks_Ankle, Trousers_WhiteTEXTURE, Shoes_TrainerTINT, Gloves_FingerlessGloves

outfit: BaseballPlayer_Rangers
guid: 86d96a79-76b7-4057-bf02-49a6983e4aad
items: Hat_BaseballHelmet_Rangers, Shirt_Baseball_Rangers, Socks_Ankle, Trousers_WhiteTEXTURE, Shoes_TrainerTINT, Gloves_FingerlessGloves

outfit: BaseballPlayer_Z
guid: d8e5e532-9387-480b-8604-2bbc3ef914a9
items: Hat_BaseballHelmet_Z, Shirt_Baseball_Z, Socks_Ankle, Trousers_WhiteTEXTURE, Shoes_TrainerTINT, Gloves_FingerlessGloves

[digital helm]

I think it's safe to assume. The outfit/clothes are only referred to as "Kentucky" and the VHS refers to the Honey Bears as "Payneville Honey Bears". There's a rural town called Payneville in Kentucky, just west of Brandenburg

[languid kayak]

I wonder if it's indeed safe to assume or a stretch 🤔 Always treated the KY one as a "generic" outfit which I did on https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Baseball_Helmet_(disambiguation) and https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Baseball_Shirt_(disambiguation)

Can ask Pat I suppose?

btw, we've decided not to split these? https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Bottle_of_Gasoline&curid=34555&diff=435907&oldid=424673

Are these the only remaining ones to split, or are we missing something else? https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Articles_to_be_split

[digital helm]

True, you're probably right. But would still be their uniform then 😛

[digital helm]

I don't think it's worth splitting until seeing b42. But if someone wants to, I'm fine with the bottles of gas being split

[digital helm]

There were some more not here, such as insect/caterpillar

Can't think of any others right now

[proud cobalt]

Has been happening occasionally for the past two days or so

[proud cobalt]

Oh I didn't have the game with me so trusted the trivia about them being the same, otherwise I would have added reupload

[digital helm]

Nvm they have been split. Links just need to be updated. And a meta/list page created for 'Caterpillar', as it just redirects to a disambig page

[languid kayak]

np, already done 😛

(reuploads that is; models still waiting)

[digital helm]

We've updated the consumables template (table that displayed values when rotten, cooked, etc.). It's a lot more user friendly, and does the calculations for you. https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Consumables

[digital helm]

I've added the about templates. Didn't remove the disambig page yet, as it's linked in quite a few recipes (assume that was the reason for it existing). Could be changed to item tags now https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Item_tags
Also, I noticed Boiled Egg was removed, and the wild eggs and eggs no longer turn into it. Now it appears to be an unused texture https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Egg

nvm boiled egg still exists. Just doesn't turn into it when cooked EggBoiled

[robust latch]

Yeah gotta be, payneville is west of brandenburg and in Kentucky

So I'd wager Kentucky Baseball team is Payneville Honey Bears

Hmm the game actually has a horse track and a baseball stadium I now realise

I wonder if the game also has a football stadium

@naive imp should we create horsetrack and baseball stadium articles? https://map.projectzomboid.com/#12227x2749x4614
https://map.projectzomboid.com/#13026x1569x10260

Oh we do have an article for baseball stadium ok

[digital helm]

looks like we have the horse track too https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Chapelmount_Downs

[robust latch]

Ok very nice

I know that atleast 1 horse race is held in there, not sure about the second

[digital helm]

I've added some redirects to help find it

[naive imp]

Usually we make them if it has a name. If it's Unnamed I'll handle it later

[languid kayak]

@thin cloud just to make sure; we're not making up lore here? (naming the KY outfit the Payneville Honey Bears? https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:OBaseballKY.png)

[languid kayak]

okay, as previously discussed on a few occasion, few big movings happened:
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Traits → https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Trait
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Skills → https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Skill
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Moodles → https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Moodle

This hopefully allow for easier linking so the [[Traits|trait]] won't be needed anymore, as simple [[trait] would do.

The old pages should be redirected properly, but old links were not yet updated on the pages, but let me know if there's any issues!

The next in line will be Tiles → Furniture and maybe Items → Item and Vehicles → Vehicle

[thin cloud]

This is the Kentucky State outfit I believe

[languid kayak]

thanks, guess assuming it's the Payneville Honey Bears is a stretch I guess?

[digital helm]

Should these annotated map pages be, for example, "Annotated Map (West Point)" to follow the normal item naming (and match the recent splitting) https://pzwiki.net/wiki/West_Point_Annotated_Maps
If not, should it be "West Point annotated maps" instead? @languid kayak

Also, should this be singular now? https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Annotated_Maps

[languid kayak]

Annotated Map (West Point), good point

[proud cobalt]

Ok i have combined my infobox, codebox, and formatting scripts into one updater script, so all can be done at once, which will make updating item articles much more efficient

It also has a blacklist of articles it will skip now, to find what articles need to be skipped i have to find which ones it breaks, hence you may have noticed an increase in bot errors i've had to fix/undo. This should significantly reduce errors of this nature

[digital helm]

Fantastic! Fewer edits in the recents I imagine 😄

[proud cobalt]

Also we're down to only 91 articles with more than 1 infobox, if we dont include water bottles or canned food. And that includes the 30+ marked to split

[proud cobalt]

Thats the goal, and page history, the only issue is getting it all ready to just need updating has contributed to more edits in the short term, for long term gain

But the last 200 should just be happening now, then when an update comes out its just one save per page instead of 3

times that by every IWBUMS, times what will be 2500ish pages, at a guess. Thats alot of edits saved

[digital helm]

so, this after iwbums is done?

[proud cobalt]

On the low end

Just hit 75k though

[digital helm]

I've working on parsing the weapon fixing too, so we'll be adding that into it too (unless b42 changes that mechanic)

[proud cobalt]

Now to figure out the best way to work the automatic article uploader. I think ill use the dictionary we were prototyping. Not sure if i added that here. @languid kayak may also be interested. This is the most up to date version.

For context, this is every page with infobox item, and its associated item IDs

[digital helm]

Yeah, I sent that to Faal last night. I think he already fixed some things 😄

[proud cobalt]

So i think the script will grab the item id of the output from parser, check it against this, and if it doesnt exist upload the article

[digital helm]

I think that's good

[proud cobalt]

i've made some fixes today too. Has actually been super handy. Some of the skill books had carpentry as the item id

[digital helm]

I'd like to use it for the script parser too, for links, rather than relying on the display name

[proud cobalt]

Yeah translations are good but doesnt help when we use specific descriptors for article names

[digital helm]

great for seeing those issues

[proud cobalt]

The codebox updater also gave me some of the codesnips that were broken so i was able to fix those up. Article updater now showing 0 articles (items specifically) with incorrect data or formatting

Which is crazy to see

[digital helm]

wow, that is crazy. So the wiki is complete? at last? 😄

[proud cobalt]

Time for PZwiki 2

[thin cloud]

Yes, it's literally the State team, not just a generic one

[languid kayak]

more than 1 ID/infobox that is?

[proud cobalt]

Yes more than 1 ID, not more than one Infobox

[digital helm]

WIP template for fixing. Feedback on layout appreciated https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Fixing

Descriptions will be adjusted to explain what the percentages mean, and why/how they change

[proud cobalt]

Ok i tested the new article creation script on light bulb articles, it worked well. I have it set up to work like this #pzwiki_editing message and also can do custom lists. It also automatically makes sentence case redirects for the article (but not currently itemID redirects. Is this something we want too?)
https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Yellow_Light_Bulb&diff=prev&oldid=440227
(Disclaimer, this revision is not up to date and has been fixed since)
https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Yellow_light_bulb&redirect=no

[proud cobalt]

Thinking in the future for hundreds of new weapons. This looks quite automatable based on fixing code, thoughts?

    {
       Require : Axe,

       Fixer : Woodglue=2; Woodwork=2,
       Fixer : DuctTape=2,
       Fixer : Glue=2,
       Fixer : Scotchtape=4,
    }```

[proud cobalt]

Updated CSV with infobox tiles

[languid kayak]

yeah, will base it off the new script tomorrow or so when I'll have some time, but here's what I did back then https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DaXyYiGZ49xWFsoL66AM8EKx006ItQzXeG45SGpsKM8/edit?usp=sharing

[digital helm]

It is automated. Got it set up just like the infobox

Just unsure if the condition mechanic will change, since being broken seems like it's going to change to a new 'broken' variant

[digital helm]

This is great! I guess item id may be helpful. But for writing over redirects, I don't think it should, just because there may be a reason for it, such as a wet towel redirecting to towel. But having a list of articles where a redirect was encountered would be good. Then we can check and add manually.

[proud cobalt]

Why so? It would only overwrite wet towel if it was creating an article that would be wet towel.

[digital helm]

Is it creating it based on the item id dictionary? I didn't consider that

So, because Bath Towel has the wet and dry id, in that dictionary, it'll only try to write to "Bath Towel" and not "Wet Bath Towel"?

[proud cobalt]

Yes if the item Id exists in the dictionary at all it won't make an article, the only reason it did for light bulbs is because I forced it to

[digital helm]

Got it. That'd make splitting a lot quicker

[proud cobalt]

Yeah was made with the ability to automatically look at the CSV and figure out what items are new to B42 and upload those, it also has a blacklist of articles it's not allowed to make ever, such as all the water bottle variants.

The only reason it could do those light bulb articles is because I manually changed what was in the queue. It shouldn't have to overwrite redirects any other time

[digital helm]

Btw @proud cobalt looking through article.py, looks like you're currently looking at the value of 'category' from the infobox to determine if it's a weapon, etc.
Each item has a 'Type' property, such as 'Weapon', 'Food', 'Drainable', 'Normal', which determines what properties it can have, so it may be helpful if we added the 'Type' to the infobox, which is hidden like the version. Then use that instead. Since some weapons are 'Sport', 'Instrument', etc. Thoughts?

Unless you wanted to just reference the parsed data to get it? I was going to add a function to get the item_data from an item_id anyway, to simplify that. I'm also changing the parsed data to a global variable

[proud cobalt]

Yeah funnily enough I was looking at that last night too, type might be the best way to go here. I'd say don't add it to the Infobox, we can grab it from the data itself and work from there.

Now that the scripts are running well I wanted to put more time into automating articles. Was going to look into headers to start with

[digital helm]

Headers would be good. Assuming that's looking at existing wiki categories rather than game data?

[proud cobalt]

Will probably need a dictionary linking parameters to wiki categories, even type to give it a basic category. Currently everything gets put in items which is unideal, as we're looking at likely a doubling in the number of items

[digital helm]

Yeah, using type and even category (DisplayCategory) as a fallback would be better than items

Also, there's a lot of changes to the script parser on my branch, since I added parsing fixing, so the way we get the parsed data has changed. I hope to push it to main tonight. In case you've been changing anything on yours. @proud cobalt

[proud cobalt]

Nah at work now, happy to wait

Done enough scripting the past few days

As a general update, most uses of ==Types== and ==Item IDs== have been replaced with variants to standardise usage. I think there's only 2 'Types' left that made more sense than variants. There's some 'Item IDs' left mostly on language pages.

[languid kayak]

btw, we still plan to adjust the {{Autogenerated}}, right? Right now the two pages that clearly have nothing left to do are popping in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Site_maintenance under https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Articles_requiring_editor_verification

Also, I guess the wording could be adjusted? "It may contain weird formatting." no longer applies to the autogenerated pages I guess?

And for things like https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Item_list the "This notice can be removed after manual editor verification." will be replaced with a github link to edit the script

[languid kayak]

One thing I had in mind, and talked with @digital helm would be cross-checking it with the parsed game files or https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Item_list for the matter. I also wanted to include OBSOLETE = TRUE items to cross-check the IDs there and also one thing I never got into checking is what happens when you try to spawn an obsolete item via admin command (or anyting else, though they don't appear in debug menu item spawner).

[proud cobalt]

Yep I've finished off what was left in there so it can be changed now. For whoever gets to it first. Discussion is here(ish) #pzwiki_editing message

[digital helm]

I'd assume that items with OBSOLETE = True aren't registered at all. From memory they didn't when spawning with admin commands, this is how I tested items before the debug menu. But would have to test to confirm

Also, I actually think they are parsed, they're just filtered out in the item list output. Everything else has them. But I'd have to check. What was it you wanted to cross reference for? @languid kayak
If they're not obtainable by any means in-game (without modding), I don't think they need to be included

[digital helm]

Here's a list of all the item IDs with OBSOLETE = true

[proud cobalt]

Not at my pc, do any of these not show up in the dictionary

[digital helm]

These exist

Most of them were removed/replaced in b41

[digital helm]

Can't be spawned with server commands.
Also found the command in ItemContainer.class

      Item var2 = ScriptManager.instance.FindItem(var1);
      if (var2 == null) {
         DebugLog.log("ERROR: ItemContainer.AddItem: can't find " + var1);
         return null;
      } else if (var2.OBSOLETE) {
         return null;

[digital helm]

actually, not the command, but is what adds the item to the inventory

[languid kayak]

Isn't chance to repair inflienced by a skill? Carpentry for the most part?

Also can't see in-game again, but is Fixer being used only in the code or how is it shown in-game?

[digital helm]

Pretty much exactly like this https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Fixing_weapon

[digital helm]

Some are. It'll say if it's dependant on a skill, e.g. wood glue. Having that skill gives the baseline (50% for top fixer) - EDIT: this is for % repaired

If it's influenced by maintenance or the weapon skill, that'd be a generic thing, which'd need to go in the description, outside of the table.
I need to look into it more

[digital helm]

So, after looking into it.
Chance of success is only based on a skill if there is a required skill (e.g. Carpentry for wood glue), otherwise it's not affected by a skill.
If it is:

• if the player's skill is less than the required skill, it's decreased by (player's skill - required skill) * 30

• else it's increased by (player's skill - required skill) * 5

• It's also affected by how many times it's been repaired. Decreased by 2% each time.

• It's then also -/+5% for unlucky/lucky

[digital helm]

Sorry, misread. Fixer is only referred in code. But it doesn't seem to be called anything in the game. It's just "Repair > with these" Happy to change it to something more reader friendly, like "Item". Tbh, I threw it together quickly 😄

[languid kayak]

we do have some obsolete=true as alt item ids in some items I believe, though

some should be obsolete while not though, like belt

[languid kayak]

not that much; I though there's more? I wonder how it'll be with b42 though 🤔

[languid kayak]

I wonder what's the purpose of obsolete = true vs totally removing it. I remember back then they said they can't replace item is the type is changed (the actual type, not the shown), that's why there's 2 items. I think obsolete items are there for the save breaks not to break between versions, but not sure?

Also, do obsolete items disappear when they get a flag? Can be easy to test, just edit the txt I guess

[digital helm]

Some got removed when the scripts got a bit of clean up with b41, such as Base.WineHalf, Base.WineHalf2 and Base.Coffee

So I expect there to be more of a clean up with b42, since there's a lot more items and changes

[digital helm]

This was my assumption too. Looks like they can't be added to the inventory, but I don't know if they get removed if they're already there 🤔

But with the differences between each major version now, saves breaking is kind of expected

[cyan nest]

Hey, I dont plan to make an account on the wiki just to fix this but, on the map (item) page, there is a symbol listing missing for the Spades icon. So, if that could be fixed that would be cool.

[robust latch]

It'd be much easier for you to create an account and add that

[languid kayak]

fixed it, thanks! Not sure why it was missing tbh, maybe it got removed? Anyway, yeah, feel free to create an account if you want to even contribute a minor fix, as an added bonus it will allow you to customize your viewing experience a little more (though the default citizen skin allows some even when not logged)

[flat sun]

existing obsolete items are removed

marking an item obsolete is just the 'proper' way to remove it, removing its script outright throws some warnings

[digital helm]

Thanks! @languid kayak

[proud cobalt]

#pzwiki_editing message

[cyan nest]

Ty, I just didn't intend to make an account because I don't check the wiki often enough. I was just checking to see if some other map locations had maps or not, which they don't (I made a comment in the creativity section but idk if right place)

[proud cobalt]

Trying to get some processes down for B42. What should come first, updated infoboxes, or new item articles? @languid kayak @digital helm

[digital helm]

I'd say new articles, I can see people rushing to create new pages

Any idea how long it would take, if we had for example, 500 new items?

[proud cobalt]

At best rate limits, 500 new articles at 7 seconds each would be an hourish

I'd say more realistically 1500 pages, which would be about 3 hours. And more likely a rate limit of 10-15 seconds, which would up it to over 6 hours on the worse end of that. We currently have about 1700 item articles to update, at the same rate limits so bordering 5-8 hours

[digital helm]

That's about the range I was thinking. 500 was a minimum 😄

So only expect to run it once a day then?

[proud cobalt]

That's the hope. The first update may onlt be a few hundred new items, because of the split, or it could be all the items in the code but only a few hundred in the game... That would be a nightmare To manage. Then the updator script would run over the top of everything for each update too

[proud cobalt]

500 new items being our minimum is so insane 😆

For reference, the new elden ring dlc added about 150 items

[digital helm]

Just trying to get the b41 items done, which were heavily consolidated, was a nightmare

[naive imp]

What do we think of archiving the old knox county? Not the remake for the challenge but the original from the older versions on the game.

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Knox_County

Nobody is going to be seeing this for info, it's more for history purposes which makes the most sense to archive it

[digital helm]

I agree with archiving it. But tbh I'm not sure what the difference between being "obsolete" and "archived" is @languid kayak

[naive imp]

Imo it depends on how important it is

Hot cold cuppa delete

Stuff like this archive

But then again that's up to interpretation

[languid kayak]

yeah, I have trouble distinguishing them too sometimes, but what Think basically said. Kinda case about Knox County too 😩

[digital helm]

I was meaning the templates. Is that what you meant by archive?
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Obsolete
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Archive
To me they're the same thing. Knox County currently has Obsolete which adds it to https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Removed_features

[naive imp]

I'd yhink we'd rather archive it and remove it from the navbox regions because nobody plays on a version that old, and thus it's not needed.

Maybe we should have an "archived pages" page so we can keep them all in one place for readers who want to peruse the game's history

[digital helm]

Personally, I don't think removed features should be on navboxes.

I like the idea, but it's pretty much what the removed features category does. Unless we wanted more details about why they were removed? But then that could be detailed on the page in question

[naive imp]

I was thinking more of a page for editors to browse the game's history. Categories aren't really accessible to 99 percent of readers, and it'd be nice to have like a game history section

[digital helm]

Gotcha. Yeah I think something like that would be good

[naive imp]

@languid kayak @proud cobalt opinion?

[proud cobalt]

I also do not like removed things in navboxes, see https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Navbox_stats

But I'm not an archivist. I can see the value in having old things, but if it were my decision they'd be nuked (good thing it's not my decision). A page for removed features could be good though. At least they'd have a reason for being on the wiki

[naive imp]

Im not either. This seems like it'd be worth the effort tho for game preservation sake. It's an important historical feature in a version that's no longer widely available

[proud cobalt]

Yeah I agree

[languid kayak]

I always treated it kinda like a lore project; something like old NPCs

[languid kayak]

I kinda kept the removed items that were spawnables, and removed skills and traits since there wasn't that much of them, but OTOH maybe future and removed items could not be included not to clutter?

Though OTOH disocverability of them would suffer (is that even an issue though?)

[languid kayak]

I removed a bunch after all; I hate removing some stuff, especially the ones people put effort to or allow discover/researc old features (I'd love wiki to cover the sanity, there's plenty of YT videos of it), but OTOH, pruning the navboxes might be healthy for example.

[naive imp]

I don't think discoverability is an issue of we make a page (not category) dedicated to articles archived for history reasons

Plus it'd be nice for readers to be able to catch up on game history

[robust latch]

@serene sage dont forget you can always write a monthly summary for annotated maps, you are da leader bruv

[serene sage]

I think I've spent pretty much zero time on them this month

too many unfinished games in my steam library right now

almost finished Portal though

[robust latch]

Alrighty

[serene sage]

actually scratch that looks like someone finished the LV article for me

[robust latch]

indeed they did

[serene sage]

well that's great

I was getting tired of writing "there are guns and ammo in this house" like a thousand times

[robust latch]

I get the same feeling while editing hundreds of recorded media's inital sentences

I think I burnt myself though

[serene sage]

same here

apparently it's not healthy to type for like ten hours a day

[digital helm]

Indeed. Linking to them in related articles would help too, whether it be in trivia or within the main body of the article (if relevant). Like we do for the Knox Country page

[naive imp]

Do you want me to go ahead and archive and remove from navbox for now? The archived pages thing could be a side project of mine (unless someone wants to do it)

[naive imp]

Supposedly not idfk lol

[digital helm]

I'm fine with that. But tbh I still don't understand the difference between adding {{Obsolete}} and {{Archive}}. They both seem to serve the same purpose if used on articles. I think of {{Archive}} as being more relevant for images, so they don't show up in uncategorised images, but also don't get deleted since they serve some archival value.

[proud cobalt]

Same with adding images for tiles lol

[proud cobalt]

I would think Obsolete is for things that still exist in the game? But this is assigning meaning to things afterthefact so may not be accurate

[languid kayak]

I'd kinda love to push the history section before b42, to archive what we have on b41, but I can't get it done 😄

[languid kayak]

We kind have https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Version_history and it's where I dumped some old screenshots into, but yeah, it's just patchlogs

[languid kayak]

Portal 1 or Portal 2? I left Portal 2 in the middle of gameplay 😄 But I liked it. Portal 1 I wanted to finish the achievements, but never got to it (just challenges left for me)

[serene sage]

Portal 1, after that it’s Portal 2

only spent an hour in 1 and as stated before I’m almost done so it’s pretty short

after Portal 2 there’s only 14 more games to finish before clearing my backlog

[languid kayak]

yeah, it is. I beat it few times thanks to that 😄

My backlog is so long that I have a backlog for backlogs 😄 (though I stopped caring; sadly, I have a tendency to spend absurd amount of time and abandoning games in the middle for insert reason here.

Last was Cyberpunk I found minor all the collectibles for I couldn't get used to 2.0 patch, I'd still love to finish it someday, though.

[digital helm]

the backlog only grows longer

[digital helm]

We could start that now. At least with a placeholder. Something like "Added to build 41 or prior", then it can be manually updated whenever. Could also be include in @proud cobalt 's new article script for the new items. Adding something like "Added in Build 42.xx"

[proud cobalt]

I mean i could get this onto pages in no time if thats what we want, is it too generic though

[digital helm]

Yeah... it's a bit of a grey area. I think "Archive" should be used for wiki specific things. But "Obsolete" for things that are removed from the game.

[digital helm]

I figure we've got to start somewhere, and just update manually. It'd at least let people know it was added before b42

Maybe I'll look through the dictionary. I've got a pretty good idea of what was pre-41

[proud cobalt]

Do you want to throw a quick template together then? Just a table with version and comment. And add a table comment for people to add what they know?

[digital helm]

To be a template, it'd be something like:

|{{History_line|version|description}}
|{{History_line|version|description}}
|{{History_line|version|description}}
|{{History_line|version|description}}
|{{History_line|version|description}}
}}```

[proud cobalt]

|+ style="caption-side: bottom;" | Help PZwiki by adding to this history.
|-
! style="width: 20%;" | Version
! style="width: 50%;" | History
|-
| 41.78.16
| Released on or before this version.
|}```

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/User:Calvy/sandbox3

[proud cobalt]

Might be cleaner as a table tbh, maybe just make the header a template?

| 41.78.16
| Released on or before this version.
|}```

I know we try to avoid just table header templates now

[digital helm]

Yeah, it's just because it's left open 🤔

as in, the whole table isn't contained within the template

[proud cobalt]

If named History header that may clue people in that its an opener only

[digital helm]

I guess that'll work

| 41.78.16 || Released on or before this version.
|-
| 41.78.16 || Released on or before this version.
|-
| 41.78.16 || Released on or before this version.
|-
| 41.78.16 || Released on or before this version.
|}```

[proud cobalt]

@languid kayak Thoughts?

[digital helm]

@proud cobalt here's all the items from the versions I have. Names could be missed up since I'm getting translations from 41.78.16

[proud cobalt]

Oh great, ill look into that soon, currently adding distribution to my update script

[naive imp]

I was thinking a more generic non exhaustive list of pz's development cycle, along with major removed features that we deem important enough to archive

But knowing yall I'm sure it will be exhaustive lol

Quit my job at the animal shelter btw

I work at a nuclear pharmacy now

[digital helm]

Oh cool! I used to want to get into pharmacy

[naive imp]

Well I'm just a courier but it is an interesting job to have

I deliver radiology stuff yk for like stress tests and other cardiovascular stuff

[digital helm]

All that stuff is pretty cool, regardless of which end your on. Used to love the lab environment

[languid kayak]

I don't get, you want a page called "Added to build 41 or prior"? Or category?

I think the ==History== section would do, just need to be maintained.

Can indeed add it to all items, tiles, vehicles, locations and maybe a few other pages with the "*Added before build 42" (and then change the numbering to whatever first public b42 build will actually be) and encouragement to fill later, and then add the respective changes by bot (like hunger changed from x to x) (which is already parsed by Calvy's bot, the old value is just not kept but thrown away).

We should have a script to compare checksums for files to see if model or icon changes too, but could do without it at the start.

At least that's how I'd see it

[languid kayak]

that'd be neat

[digital helm]

was meaning a history section.

Added before build 42
Happy with this, or any rewording 😄

[languid kayak]

the old crafting used to be like that 😄

as in a template header to opem a table

[languid kayak]

ah, makes sense 😄

can add some prompt to allow people to easily contribute (like "needs filling") or something like that. That, or if we would like to do that ourselves, I guess it'd be possible to download each depot one by one from Steam to fill (but would take some time, so kinda like low priority I guess).

I think it could actually be automated with steamcmd actually

[digital helm]

We should have a script to compare checksums for files to see if model or icon changes too, but could do without it at the start.
I plan to do a lot of comparing throughout b42. As well as updating PZwiki:Item_list

[digital helm]

basically Calvy's example 😄

[languid kayak]

for non-scripted comparing I use meld: worked really nice for PZ so far 🙂
https://meldmerge.org/

it doesn't compare images like Github does (which is even nicer), but shows if a file is different

[digital helm]

@languid kayak which do you prefer? The table header #pzwiki_editing message, or the whole table template #pzwiki_editing message
I think I prefer the whole table

[languid kayak]

for how GitHub compares images see https://github.com/I-am-Erk/CDDA-Tilesets/pull/2463/files#diff-34a80ad1c3f72e10718e653638bc0887a27aeafd0d83e99574731ed3a4b4e101

More than a curiosity, I don't plan having such functionality on wiki, for us the icon changed is enough and just mark that the icon has changed in the history

[languid kayak]

Looks nice indeed, I'd link to [[version history]] too

but it being a template I can do later, unless you want me to do it on your sandbox 😛

[digital helm]

Thoughts? This is the as 2 templates. https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:HistoryLine @proud cobalt
I removed sortable and added collapsible (didn't think sortable was very useful here)

[proud cobalt]

Happy for this

[proud cobalt]

How feasable would it be to get more versions of this? @digital helm

[digital helm]

@languid kayak have you been able to get older versions with steamcmd/download depot? I haven't been able to do it for PZ

[digital helm]

This is great btw 👌

[proud cobalt]

I wonder how open TIS would be to sharing what they have for history?

[digital helm]

Not out of the question I'd say

@proud cobalt cycling PNGs https://pzwiki.net/wiki/User:Vaileasys/sandbox_2
For this I was thinking of having a template for each tag that cycles through each of the items with that tag. May be something we want to automate

[languid kayak]

looks nice 👌

I added explicit link to version history, feel free to reword if you want https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Template:HistoryTable&diff=440513&oldid=440497

Maybe it would be better to explicitly point people to check the version history for the changes? After all, we have it all documented, so as a stop-gap or a way to contribute, that'd be a starter.

[digital helm]

I was thinking about a link too. I tried to link to edit a specific section, but the section query string is a numerical index. I.e. action=edit&section=3 where 3 is the third section

A link to version history is good

[naive imp]

@distant osprey could this business name refer to something or mean anything, or is it just a case of Fancy French©️?

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/La_Vie_En_Gastronomie

BTW I sent you a friend request, I want to dm you something

[naive rock]

so, there used to be boxes on the skill page that broke down how each skill worked until the most recent version that removed them. this, imo, is a terrible change, can we get them back please

before: https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Skill&oldid=315529

after: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Skill

[proud cobalt]

They still exist on the skills page, skills have been split due to the upcoming changes in B42. All the same information is there.

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Strength

[naive rock]

right

but thats a lot more inconvient to have to go to each invidiual page when before you could get all that info from the main page

that would be like if the weapons list moved all of the stats to only being on the weapons individual page instead of the master list

[proud cobalt]

Splitting the skills allows them to be covered in more depth, the page was already far too long, it was one of the longest on the wiki, and b42 is adding even more

There's links to each individual skill on the page to make it easier to see more in depth information, this is just a general page about skills

[naive rock]

They are covered in more depth on each individual page, but this is just the table itself thats more useful to have on the full page

its pretty annoying to have to swap back and fourth multiple times when you want the raw stats for each skill, just like it would be for the weapons page

[proud cobalt]

Ok i've started this with what we had, can always work out a way to update it later if we get more versions. They're basically placeholder to encourage editors anyway.

https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=.223_Round&diff=prev&oldid=440659#History

@digital helm too

[distant osprey]

This kinda basically means "Life in gastronomy" nothing referred to

[naive imp]

That's what I thought too

I was like tf?

Maybe it translated roughly in good translation so I figured I'd ask, thx! 😀

[digital helm]

A couple of options with this, since it'd need to be reworked if the tables were added back (having tables in tables is not good).

1. keep it as is, with tables only on individual skill pages
2. Have each skill as a section (heading) rather than a table row
3. Split the section groups (Agility, Combat, etc.) to separate pages and do number 2. Leaving the skill page with the general info

For now there are 7 new skills coming in b42, 6 of which are crafting.
Thoughts @languid kayak

Weapons page is really long too

[naive rock]

It might be long but its also incredibly convenient

[digital helm]

I think the id could be a parameter in the template

[digital helm]

not if you can't load the page. For weapons, on average takes 4 seconds to load, and only on it for 1 second

[naive rock]

I think waiting 4 seconds for a page to load is well worth not having to have 15 tabs open to compare various weapons

[digital helm]

Yeah, and I wouldn't split it because of its convenience

but it's something we need to be mindful of

[naive rock]

Alright cool

wont lie I got scared there for a second

[digital helm]

Behind life and living it's our most popular page, so we're all scared to touch it

Every change we've made (even small ones) has had to be reverted

[proud cobalt]

4 seconds might not seem like much to you, but 4 seconds of straight server time per user, on the most popular page on the wiki, is alot of resources

[naive rock]

Because it's the most useful page on the wiki. Tons of data on hand at a glance, I use it all the time for calculations

and without it, people are going to have to resort to opening several new tabs

Like

its so useful

[digital helm]

@proud cobalt I've added the item_id parameter https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=.223_Round&type=revision&diff=441971&oldid=440659

I'm thinking this may eventually just be a dummy parameter. Since we're splitting item pages, only 1 history table should exist

[proud cobalt]

I'm gonna let it finish, since all the pages will need the update anyway, and yeah would have been best to only add the ID if more than one item existed for a page. That was an oversight

Will be able to put a script together to do that, probably tonight

[digital helm]

All good. We get there eventually 😄

[proud cobalt]

@languid kayak heres a permanent link to the item dictionary, this is where I'll put the most recent version from now on

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Gjl7WJMm7qYaJ5S_J2FtM1iTlyfLI-z8/view?usp=sharing

[digital helm]

@proud cobalt @languid kayak tags with cycling icons https://pzwiki.net/wiki/User:Vaileasys/sandbox_2
I was thinking of having these as templates so we just have to do {{Tag Hammer}} https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Tag_Hammer

I've got these all generated

[proud cobalt]

That's great. How does it go with recipes? Can we just replace the icon link with the template?

[digital helm]

Unfortunately not. Since the recipe adds [[File:{}.png]] so we'd have to change it somehow

[proud cobalt]

Gee who made it like that 👀

[digital helm]

It's a little messed up right now. Trying to fix an issue...

fixed. It'll be inline now. It was only on its own line and the clickable space spanned the page

[digital helm]

@proud cobalt I decided to add the tags table to the script https://github.com/Vaileasys/pz-script_parser/blob/main/item_tags.py
For some reason yours was missing some tags. https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Item_tags&type=revision&diff=443233&oldid=351401
Also (not sure which is right) but yours got all the 'Tags', whereas mine overwrites it and only gets the last 'Tags'.
So, if we have Tags = HasMetal and Tags = RiceRecipe for a single item, yours gets both, and mine only gets RiceRecipe.

[proud cobalt]

🤔 Different orders too. I can send you my tags script if you want to have a look?

[digital helm]

Oh yeah, I sorted items too

[digital helm]

this is it right? https://github.com/CalvyPZ/PZ-scripts-to-item-tag

[proud cobalt]

Oh thatd be it. I don't remember changing it so that should be up to date

[digital helm]

Not sure why it's missing the tags. But yours gets the Tags first, then it goes back to get the associated item. So it's storing the same item twice. Whereas mine gets the item first, and writes over the existing Tags entry.

[proud cobalt]

But mine is missing some too?

[digital helm]

It's missing Camera and Rope

and HoldDirt

For mine, the tags that are missing seem to be for b42 anyway. So will probably be fixed

[languid kayak]

I think we can bring the tables back? Or, if we don't want to maintain them twice, add from individual skills with includes? @digital helm

[languid kayak]

Yeah, weapons and item tables are heavily visited, though

[languid kayak]

Nah, some changes stayed after all, but indeed they are scary to touch 😄

[languid kayak]

Oh right, if we'd be stubborn for splitting, we could simplify code, distribtuion as well, since there's just one ID per page.

[digital helm]

Do you have a preference for one of these? #pzwiki_editing message

[languid kayak]

yeah, saw that message after writing, but not sure 🤔

[languid kayak]

I'm fixing double redirects now; do we need these redirects or are these good to go?
https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Skill_Point&redirect=no
https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Skill_Point_Allocation_Panel&redirect=no
https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Level&redirect=no

These are from the old system when you got levels and skill points to distribute

[proud cobalt]

Interesting, I swear I saw camera. At least we have it now

Also I have a preference, but I think everyone knows what it is already

[digital helm]

Level: yes
Skill_Point: no, but keep/add Skill_point
Skill_Point_Allocation_Panel: no

redirects help for searching too

[proud cobalt]

I think keep skill points. It's still a generic term people use for skill levels and will lead them in the right direction

Level I think is the same

But allocation panel can definitely go

Oh yeah Vail is right, Skill point sentence case

[languid kayak]

Kept the Skill Point and Skill point (apparently the latter was there but removed years ago), the Skill Point Allocation Panel is last refered to in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Survival_Guide/no#Nå_et_Nytt_Nivå (without link)

[proud cobalt]

This should be marked outdated

[languid kayak]

btw, thanks, I have changed The Smithing Magazine to disambig, so what's mostly left are:

1. Clothing (and jewelry)
2. https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Recipe_ingredients
3. Things we're not decided, but could be split I guess (water containers and throwable electronics/bombs)

However, there are some other things like chips, eggs, wallets, etc.

Somegeneric pages and potential disambigs could use having to take a look too.

Some things will likely stay (opened cans, bandages, towels, things with old IDs, we can just cross-check them with the obsolete ones)

[digital helm]

Recipe_ingredients
This is a complicated one (maybe we can write a script to help with the ingredients?)

water containers
Wait until b42

throwable electronics/bombs
Split, I started with aerosol bomb https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Aerosol_Bomb

eggs split too. Chips and wallets is up to you all

[languid kayak]

The water containers could be settled to have a clean state for 41.78.16, but like low importance IMO 😛

I think these water/gasoline ones will probably all get obsolete like the half whisky bottle in b42

[digital helm]

btw, for Aerosol Bomb I wasn't sure what to do with the sensor variant https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Aerosol_Bomb_with_Sensor

[proud cobalt]

Recipe ingredients is difficult. It definitely needs some good effort out into it, and should probably be last when we nail what we want to do.

I know Vail was against splitting wallets and chips. I think we should still, but descriptors can be tricky for these. Variant list helps with that.

I think Vail did a good job with aerosol bomb. Level differences can be in one article, but the actual variants have their own pages.

Water containers I'm on the fence. They are actually different items with different IDs. it's not just a change of the value because of how the game is coded. To me that's a different item, but if it was just codes to have a fill amount value then it would be the same item.

I think Faal is right, we know liquid handling is changing in B42, it will likely make all the pages Obsolete. It may be best to not split them until we know for sure.

[digital helm]

with the liquid system I imagine there'll just be the base item (Mug) and that will have a liquid capacity. And the variants (gas and water) will be obsolete

[proud cobalt]

If we split each recipe into its own page, what do we do for a 'generic' page? What happens to the page we have now

[proud cobalt]

That's how I would hope it works, rather than a totally different item. Which is only a new change right? Before it would change item to a half bottle then empty?

We know there's some pretty advanced liquid handling changes coming

[languid kayak]

Can someone who speaks Russian say to me what this should point to? Currently, there's no Изнеможение section in the moodles.

https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Изнеможение&redirect=no

https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Special:Search&fulltext=1&search=Изнеможение

[digital helm]

We could change it to be an "Evolved recipes" or "Cooking recipes" or leave as is, with the whole cooking instructions bit that's at the top

[digital helm]

a 'new' change, yeah, for 6+ years 😆

[proud cobalt]

Before I edited the wiki, I had no clue what an evolved recipe was. I think we need better searchability and libking for cooking and recipe based articles

[digital helm]

google tells me exhaustion

[proud cobalt]

So one build ago 😆

Are you happy with this @languid kayak #pzwiki_editing message we just leave water containers as they are until at least B42

[languid kayak]

nah, we're fresh anew

[languid kayak]

I guess, unless we really want to to get to it 🤔

[digital helm]

I agree. evolved recipe could mean anything. Recipe ingredients would be fine, but we're splitting off the ingredients...
The cooking page is quite short, so could go there

[proud cobalt]

Not to make you veterans feel old or anything but...

Build 40 was 6 years ago 😆

We're on build 41

But hopefully not for much longer

[proud cobalt]

I think we merge with cooking, and split the recipes off

[languid kayak]

Yeah, seems to be it, with that in mind https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:DoubleRedirects is back to 0 pages 🎉

Had to clean up after my Skill/Trait/Moodle renames 😄

[proud cobalt]

Although cooking is specifically about the skill. Not really the act of cooking. I'm not against expanding its scope

Although that would be no different than carpentry

[digital helm]

it's like any of the crafting skills though

[proud cobalt]

Currently we have

Cooking
Cooking (crafting)
Recipe Ingredients

[digital helm]

yeah, one too many there

[robust latch]

Project Lore can figure something out, it is just that I can't shake my head to come up with a firm idea

Maybe after everything is done we can create a stub for radio and a task in the project page

Lore technically has a task rn to improve radio and tv anyhow

[languid kayak]

For evolved recipes, it's where it started btw: https://theindiestone.com/forums/index.php?/topic/18102-released-build-3410-food-tracker-build/ (fond in my memory as that's where I got more into community testing)

[proud cobalt]

Are we gonna get the same feedback about everything being on the same page again though. That article is a bit of a nightmare if you don't know what you're looking at

[digital helm]

that's why I don't think it should be a problem

[proud cobalt]

Off topic the old player models are so cute 😄

[digital helm]

radio and tv are in an ok spot aren't they? Unless you wanted to split them by show. But they seem fairly standardised (except life and living)

[proud cobalt]

Also recipe ingredients doesn't show any nutritional info. So there's not really anything there to compare.

It's the 6th, 7th, and 9th longest articles

[digital helm]

So a link to this would definitely be needed https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Nutritional_values

[robust latch]

Yes Radio and TV were mostly finished even before the Lore was out there, but they always had that improve tag + the splitting discussions will eventually draw attention to those "meta" pages.

[proud cobalt]

Yep, a link on every recipe article too preferably.

[digital helm]

I was thinking recently about whether the transcripts should be separated by show, rather than date. But at the same time, if you're reading the whole lot, you'd want to read by date

And whatever you do, don't touch life and living 😆 or at least it'll need a lot of discussion. It's our most viewed page

btw @robust latch in case you missed it, I created this page, rather than having it doubled up on each radio/tv page https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Broadcasts -EDIT: update link

might actually move to either 'frequencies' or 'broadcasts', rather than both 🤔

[proud cobalt]

With what Pete said about xp changes it may need some updating soon. Hopefully not too much

[digital helm]

those transcript pages are pretty painful to do 😄

[languid kayak]

Caps or not (Life and Living will be nerfed a lot and without disassembly carpentry will be back to being hard to level), I still wish that the TV shows being watched would unlock the knowledge the same way the VHS does.

[robust latch]

Alright

[digital helm]

Oh true, that may be one of the changes. If so, even more reason to split/create by show

[robust latch]

Thats nice, thanks! I think the name is fine, feel free to change it if you dont like it tho

[proud cobalt]

They said recently unlocking things would have big changes right? Mostly level based recipe unlocks?

That will have to be added to recipe requirements too

[languid kayak]

Totally offtopic, I should probably go back to updating/reshuffling the links on https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Project_Zomboid_Wiki plus on non-English pages, but I still have a few big renames in mind

• Tiles → Furniture
• Vehicles → Vehicle
• Items → Item possibly

And some new generic pages may be created.

The locations lack new locations too (and not the b42 locations, more like burnt town, abandoned settlement, malls).

When we'll get back to SYF things can rotate too, plus we can link to the generic pages more often, too

[digital helm]

@proud cobalt I've changed what we discussed previously about tags. I decided to split each one to a separate page rather than having it all on the one page. also moved Item tags to be singular https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Item_tag
Here's an example page https://pzwiki.net/wiki/AlcoholicBeverage_(tag)

[proud cobalt]

Broadcasts, with a redirect for frequencies. In case you were after feedback

[digital helm]

I was thinking that too. Already redirected channels

[proud cobalt]

Still havnt looked at widescale changes from tile to furniture. Should do that soon

[proud cobalt]

Should also redirect radio station and TV channel

[languid kayak]

btw, might not get to it soon, but do we agree the "Function" should be removed from infoboxes in favor of updating the page's ==Usage== section instead? @digital helm (but anyone feel free to comment)

Reasons:

• Can't be parsed automatically
• Has to be maintained twice (contains errors/inconsistencies)
• Hard to keep consistent

like in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Maggots

If so, I guess could be added as a bot task, though some manual checking could be welcome, too

[digital helm]

Yes. May be some exceptions, but we might be able to move tags there instead

Already deprecated on the infobox I believe

[languid kayak]

Where's the 41.45 from @proud cobalt https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Bayonet&type=revision&diff=440829&oldid=438259

Also, I think we can link to exact version too, though unstable builds are confusing (unless we change naming: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Build_41#IWBUMS_Build_41.45)

[digital helm]

from this #pzwiki_editing message

They'll all need to be checked when we can

[proud cobalt]

As Vail said from the files he sent, These are really just a building block to convince editors to help add and correct information. Its the first time it shows up in those files

[digital helm]

Are we happy to go through with these changes now? (modifying {{Autogenerated}})

[proud cobalt]

Im happy

[languid kayak]

same

Is this correct btw? https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Knox_Telecommunications&curid=28027&diff=440245&oldid=428265 pinging @robust latch too

[digital helm]

That's what they're saying. Some people call in to the radio saying that they can't get through to anyone inside the exclusion zone. I don't remember if they were in Louisville or not

[digital helm]

Christian:

My phone is still out!
It's been out for... nine days?
Guy from Knox Telephones came round.
Said to expect some disruption.
Host:

So where are you calling from Christian?
Christian:

My sister's place.
I live just North of the river. She's up in Louisville.

It's also the surrounding area

[languid kayak]

so revert I guess?

[robust latch]

I am not %100 sure

[languid kayak]

see above 😄

[digital helm]

it at least needs to be clarified. As it's not just inside the exclusion zone

and they weren't necessarily 'cut' either. They were doing "maintenance"

[robust latch]

I think this does validate Roudrick's edits no? Am i missing something?

[digital helm]

Roudrick's edit says Louisville and outside the exclusion zone can call. She lives north of the river (outside the exclusion zone) and can't call, but her sister, who lives in Louisville can call. So it's at least affecting the exclusion zone, and some area north of the river. But not Louisville

[languid kayak]

BTW, cleaned https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Trait&type=revision&diff=443457&oldid=437971 a bit based on the https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Trait/tr (thanks for putting it @robust latch) – also added to https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Clumsy#Effects

I just hope the math is right, and not sure if other sound affecting perks are not affected too?

[robust latch]

A Turkish guy gave the information in trait/tr talk page and if you accept pi as 3 and not 3.14, yes the math is sound

[digital helm]

ugh... messed that up... Louisville and outside the exclusion zone 'can' call

[robust latch]

So;
1-Inside the Exclusion Zone phones are completely down.
2-In Louisville phones are up.
3-North of the river&off map areas have their phones down aswell (somehow)

Can you recall any example of a person calling from north of the river or from off map

It feels weird that only the Louisville have access to the phonelines but everywhere else around it don't.

[digital helm]

That's what it says. But reading it again I think that might be a mistake. I feel like it should say "south" of the river. Since they also so 'up' in Louisville.

actually, seems right. They mention 'on the other side of the water'

Christian:

Sure did.
I don't know what's happening on the other side of the water...
But it's not good.
You can smell it in the air.
Something's smelled bad for weeks, it gets into your lungs.
That's what's behind it.

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/KnoxTalk_Radio#timestamp_1800

Probably referring to the river north of West Point rather than the Ohio river

[robust latch]

Yeah could be. Even though this person is "free" from exclusion zone, the telecomms maintenance zone might inlcude everywhere south of Louisville

[digital helm]

@robust latch the autogenerated media category is moved https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Autogenerated_articles_(media)

[digital helm]

Yeah. They might be from the Valley Station area and managed to get out just before the blockade. Since the lines were down for a week or so

[languid kayak]

https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Notched_Wooden_Plank&curid=3269&diff=441371&oldid=429513 – isn't toilet paper better fuel/encumbrance?

[digital helm]

so probably correct 😄 could just be clarified

[languid kayak]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Site_maintenance will need an update

[robust latch]

I think it is

[digital helm]

If the wiki is accurate. Toilet paper is 12 mins at 0.2 and notched plank is 2hr at 0.5. So notched plank is better? https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Fuel

or is it 12 minutes per unit 🤔

oh... it is per unit. So 6.4hrs for toilet paper

[languid kayak]

clarified: https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Notched_Wooden_Plank&type=revision&diff=443647&oldid=442233

reworded: https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Judge_Matt_Hass&type=revision&diff=443771&oldid=441329 – feel free to improve, though not sure about the COVID part which may a stretch.

I assume the part about outfits is accurate? As in they don't spawn but will in future?

[digital helm]

Are we happy to remove these headings? I think it was discussed briefly. https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Corpses
We can just add them in the items page

[languid kayak]

I don't mind

Don't forget about crafting, recipes and non-English pages

[digital helm]

and tiles

[languid kayak]

which will be renamed, yeah 😄

@robust latch what do we do with this? https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Pastor_Samuels&curid=40003&diff=442307&oldid=429749

[proud cobalt]

Ok IDs are being added into history templates now

[proud cobalt]

@languid kayak @digital helm Every page that currently has |function=
Less than i thought, considering it has all the tiles too, which can definitely go.

[digital helm]

less than you thought you say. It's over 1000 😆

maybe remove the furniture ones first?

[proud cobalt]

Considering theres 1700 items its not bad. Everything is relative 😆

[proud cobalt]

I agree

[digital helm]

@proud cobalt if you're itching for bot tasks. There's more images to replace https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Tasks#One-time_bot_tasks
Not sure of your preferred format

[proud cobalt]

I actually just saw this, theres a few there for me to do now. should be able to still use the script i made before once the bots free tomorrow

[digital helm]

just leave them there once done, so it's easier for me to delete them 😄 then I'll remove them

[proud cobalt]

Will let you know when its done than

[robust latch]

For the time being looks like those information can go into trivia

In order to prevent too many sections

[proud cobalt]

This should actually be done now. There's two still showing uses, but I cant figure out where.
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:FishingSkillbook.png
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:MEATSalmonRotten.png

[digital helm]

the tasks page?
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/File:FishingSkillbook.png

[proud cobalt]

🤔

Must be cache

Ahh definitely cache, as it shows view source instead of edit

[digital helm]

yeah, can never trust images

[languid kayak]

I'd think the two tasks I left are easy to, one is adding period after all mboxes which shouldn't be too hard to automate? The second one is categories changing to {{ll but that would require extra checks for non-English pages as some may be wrongly categorized, plus the {{ll do not support sort key

[languid kayak]

Changed to that: https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Pastor_Samuels&type=revision&diff=445521&oldid=442307

@digital helm there's more in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Pages_requested_for_deletion just no duplicates marked

[languid kayak]

btw, now that we're up for splitting tasks and improving item pages, I'd say a second look at
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Tasks#Items and https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Tasks#Boilerplates_and_individual_item_pages could be made, these are some loose notes I added

[languid kayak]

I'm a little confused now, so guess https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Knox_Telecommunications&type=revision&diff=445563&oldid=428265 is still incorrect, as LV phones didn't work?

Also, I asked about the Knox Telecommunication logo @lucid junco mentioned the van has it in #pzwiki_editing message

but I can't find it either in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Chevalier_Step_Van or https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Franklin_Valuline including the teased gallery; is there a logo anywhere? Also checked the https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Advert_Trailer

btw, should't we have a page for each sack? https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Sack

following our splitting?

[lucid junco]

Im very sorry for the misleading you, I thought that LBMW Network van was actually of Knox Telecommunication.

[languid kayak]

thanks 😄 Makes sense then

Was weird that Vail kinda confirmed it below 😛

Thought it was me missing something

btw @proud cobalt @digital helm I think we should proceed with removing the obsolete items from the navboxes, following what ThinkDock did with Knox County? https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Template:Navbox_regions&curid=12063&diff=440575&oldid=423743

[naive rock]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Suture_Needle#Stitch

changed this page, since it previously said that healing with an unbandaged stitch was faster. After debug testing twice, I can confidently say this isnt true
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/136501320340209664/1269406019520565258/Untitled_video_-_Made_with_Clipchamp_19.mp4?ex=66aff1fb&is=66aea07b&hm=b6f9403d21ee37b7bf6d27fe5b3cb79202ddb0e43e74a25b9d1fe35f8acfa2d2&

both times the bandaged and stitched version healed fully before the stitch only even reached halfway to healed

[languid kayak]

Thanks ❤️

[naive rock]

shoutout to whoever added these lil tables

I appreciate them

I'll probably still use the big block but these are convenient

[languid kayak]

Wouldn't it be https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Durability_weapon by Vaileasys?

Still have to solve the general skill page lacking tables you posted above btw, but will at least wait till tomorrow I guess, after I wrap my head around the monthly summary

[naive rock]

all good

sorry for coming in so combative about that

[proud cobalt]

Yep that's Vails handywork

[languid kayak]

BTW, I wonder if it's possible to list all links that link to redirects instead of actual pages 🤔 Should be doable I guess? I wonder why mediawiki doesn't have such report, as in fixing things like https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Iron_Gut&type=revision&diff=445733&oldid=428053 – should be botable TBH.

[digital helm]

Yeah, I wanted to get the ones I'd already listed out of the way, so I knew which were missing

[digital helm]

Depends on how you look at it. Is it the same as a bottle being filled with different types of liquids? Also could they be removed/changed with b42 going off of Algol's note?

[digital helm]

They might treat it as a feature rather than a maintenance thing, so not necessarily a bad thing. Rather than something that needs to be fixed, like double redirectd

[proud cobalt]

Quickly catching 6000 articles, even before B42