pzwiki_editing

[naive imp]

Confusion

[serene sage]

all the locations

duh

[lucid junco]

I mean the t1

d1

c1

[naive imp]

Ohhhhh that's an old format

Still works

[waxen smelt]

title, decription, coordinates

1, 2 and 3

[serene sage]

must be some crappy naming scheme

[lucid junco]

Exept it isnt?

[naive imp]

It was

Ok holup

[waxen smelt]

Single character identifiers...

[naive imp]

So ikip invented that bullshit, we replaced it was photo1 town1 desc1 coord1 etc etc like you see in the other templates of the same name

[lucid junco]

Too late

Had already updated it

[naive imp]

It was supposed to be changed over automatically but I guess the bot missed that one

[naive imp]

If it works as intended then no need to worry

[waxen smelt]

Oh town, that makes more sense

Doesn't seem to have been working

[naive imp]

It's an old format

The template used to be like that and we changed it

We had a bot go over them all to auto-update them but I guess the bot missed that artifle

We should check for any more unfinished ones

[waxen smelt]

That I can tell, but it doesn't seem to have been working, unless sharp broke it by the time the link was sent

[lucid junco]

It didnt

[naive imp]

Shit

Ok mark it as wip I'm at work I'll get on it later

[lucid junco]

It works now, since Ive updated it

[naive imp]

Ohhhhhh ok

I thought you meant you changed it and it still didn't work

Bro cut me some slack I've had a fucking awful day at work

I'm so beyond stressed rn

[waxen smelt]

If I find a kitchen knife I will

[lucid junco]

Some crisps for you

🤨

[serene sage]

wow

I can leave in the back

what’s the asking price?

[waxen smelt]

6000 a month, with a 50000 deposit first

[serene sage]

uh

american dollars?

[waxen smelt]

Obviously, we're in kentucky

Those are the only dollars that matter

[lucid junco]

Wow, such a nice safehouse location

Exept its a fucking CAFE

[serene sage]

can I offer you a butter knife?

my best weapon

[lucid junco]

Caraway

Yeah

No

Oh man

This one got freezers

Woah, thats a lotta words

Too bad Im not reading em

[serene sage]

finally a useful one

somewhat

[lucid junco]

Is it though?

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Jenny's_Table

Its a cafe

[serene sage]

oh

[lucid junco]

With an office on top

[serene sage]

nahhhhh

[lucid junco]

Thought so

[lucid junco]

@naive imp Revert if you think otherwise though

Two stories?

Are they interesting though?

Dont think so

This one comes with refrigerators

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Bright_Flag_Inn
A lotta words

[serene sage]

like 99% of all homes

[lucid junco]

For a bar with a couple of bedrooms on top

@naive imp Up to you though

Jeez, thas a fucking one story bar in the fallas lake

Didnt have to write a serenade

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/The_Horseshoe

Needs to be finished

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Line_by_Line_Designs

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Electron_House

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Maps_Unlimited

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Mashie_Signs_%26_Paintings

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Noteworthy

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Olympia_Department_Store

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Purrfect_Barkner_Pet_Supplies

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Sammie's

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Scenic_Mile_Car_Dealership

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Jimmy's_Pre-owned_Cars

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Upscale_Mobility_Auto_Dealership

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Window_(business)

It keeps on going

Help

[serene sage]

[lucid junco]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Andrei_%26_Son_Hand-Crafted_Wallets
Not sure about this one

High fences are one of the key features for safehouse

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Brac_Brick_Factory
Also this one

[distant osprey]

A little question, is there a way to delete a wiki page (fail creation) ? Or I need to ask a wiki admin ?

[serene sage]

add a deletion mbox

and maybe a description of why

[distant osprey]

Alright, thanks !

[lucid junco]

AND A SINK?!

[serene sage]

oh no my safehouse has no sink

[lucid junco]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Knox_Telecommunications
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Bow_Wow_Wow!_Dog_Nutrition
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Sky_Blue_Banking
Needs improving also

https://tenor.com/view/x-qc-clap-gif-19168930

Aight, Im done for now

[waxen smelt]

That last one almost killed me

[proud cobalt]

Sounds good

[digital helm]

I still need to add a dict for items that are merged, such as sledgehammer and guitars. Rather than having a new row for the same thing

[proud cobalt]

Yeah I guess they don't have to be added automatically. Output should just be text files of pages that can be hosted for any user to grab and use as a starting point

Fanta cake was the only disguised dead end orphaned page on all of Wikipedia containing only a link that lead to a redirect that lead back to the Fanta cake page. It also used that very sad image for a very long time

These should have been removed by the bot last night. @digital helm hold off on removing the params my search missed at least one

[digital helm]

Removed it last night. I'll revert it now

Let me know when we're good, otherwise just redo the revision https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Template%3ABuilding_multi_location&type=revision&diff=392873&oldid=392871

[serene sage]

I've noticed something weird while I was running around in debug mode trying to find annotated maps

I've set them to spawn very frequently

and I've set literature to "abundant"

the first few gas stations and zippie marts gave me something like 4-6 maps each

then nothing

I've counted 26 annotated maps in my inventory

but they somehow stop spawning after 26 despite other maps spawning in like a dozen at a time

I made a new save and now I only get 23

seems there's a randomized cap to the amount of annotated maps that can spawn

[languid kayak]

Remove "Template:" while at it, indeed weird this one wasn't picked up 🤔

[proud cobalt]

Thatd be why the bot didn't pick it up. It searched for {{Building...

@digital helm From what I can find dressed to the 90s was the only one like that. I've reinstated your template edits

[digital helm]

Oh good. Thanks 🙂

[languid kayak]

good catch then!

[languid kayak]

out of curiosity, you can do a search for {{Template: string, so we know if there's more templates like that for the future; some might be talk pages, but good to be aware of it too

[proud cobalt]

Yeah was planning to once I get home tonight or sometime this weekend. I didn't even know that would work, assumed {{ already knew to look in the template name space

[languid kayak]

Yeah, it was Ikip back then who though using Template: would make things easier to understand it's template (which I found odd, as Wikiopedia always skipped it IIRC) and I changed them back, this one I had to miss 😛

that was pre-bot era 😄

[lucid junco]

Does anyone know the update when LV was added?

I think its the same update that also added VHS and CD's

Oh, nevermind

Its B41.60

Aaaand its upsent from the b41 versions table?

[lucid junco]

Nope

Its B41.54

@languid kayak Shouldn I add something about it onto their respective pages?

And also something about these businesses

Since they werent added untill.. idk, somewhere around B41.54-B41.60

[languid kayak]

map expansions is something that isn't widely tracked. Eech time a new version is exported (might be new areas, might be fixes to existing ones), new map version is created; I once suggested braincoder to keep track of these in the pzmap, but it currently don't do it.

There's a trivia in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Dogs_A-Flamin'#Trivia I think I asked a couple time / wondered whether to keep at all 🤔

btw, seeing pages like this reminded me @naive imp Not sure what was the outcome of discussion, but are you happy with putting images in the infobox (interior and exterior), unless it's a multi-location business (unless we wire something for the multi-location template)?

And I guess we just want for the page:

• Straightened logo (all should be done, unless something's missed, courtesy of @lucid junco in infobox, straigtened alt logo in the gallery; unstraigtehed ones belonging to movable tiles.
• Interior, floors/exterior (if any, as some location might not have roof, these would be just one image) in the infobox
• Not sure about cropping/pixel perfect, especially if location have smaller floors; also not sure about skyscrapers / basements in the furure; something we'd have to consider for b42 project

And images like these, that is just a short of the sign/entrance are gonna be replaced with these?

Not sure we have those rules somewhere, but I think we should add them to the https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Help:Style_guide https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Help:Images and/or a link to a project (which the images should be outline too; as long as the preference of screencapping the map and not having markers hidden; also resolution/zoom to take them might matter)

Pinging @digital helm for this too, would be nice to have nice and even screenshots along, I guesss it's mostly LV that isn't replaced yet, I'll be slowly removing the sign screecaps if so and we can move the gallery interiors to infobox 🙂

[lucid junco]

Im curious what should we do with these maps

The so called "Custom tourist maps"

(made by @digital helm and Runner)

Itws clear that they are using older maps as their bases

So if they are already a bit out of date, they definetly will be even more out of date when B41 drops

[languid kayak]

huh, apparently X (ex-Twitter) stopped redirecting to twitter anymore (though old twitter.com links works: noticed on one of the "tweets" https://x.com/theindiestone/status/1798684743841780015; minor bot task to adjust the links I guess lol (not that I'm fan of the platform and rebranding, but I guess so far it's too early to replace X links to Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/theindiestone.bsky.social (oldest tweets aren't there, plus Knox Event wasn't on there)

[lucid junco]

X sucks as a name

Tweeting sounds much better

Than X-ing

Exing

And if posts on tweeter are Tweets

what are posts on X

Exs?

[digital helm]

I've got making the infobox size a consistent as on my to-do. Should just be a case of putting the image in a container that has a predefined height. Fairly low priority for me though, and unlikely to get much done this weekend

[digital helm]

Happy to delete mine. Unsure about the others. Maybe we should have a category for these community made images

[lucid junco]

They are mostly for muldraugh

[digital helm]

You're talking about removing the in-game (or pzmap) screenshots of the signs? I think they could go if we added the interior/exterior to the infobox. We have the logos now

[lucid junco]

These ones I think

[languid kayak]

Thanks! Surprisingly just a few; removed the ones from Projects and Language policy, the translation string I'm not sure and the Modding ones are outdated sadly, so would probably need retranslating anyway

[lucid junco]

@languid kayak @digital helm Doesnt that mean that Fossoil had had an accident in gulf of alaska where they contaminated it with oil?

I think that can go into trivia

[robust latch]

Yeah feel free to add it bruv

[serene sage]

besides I believe there was an actual oil spill there in 1989

[robust latch]

We have a problem with new building multi location template, it now adds [[ ]] which results in this: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Fossoil/tr

[serene sage]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exxon_Valdez_oil_spill

Exxon == Fossoil?

wait no Exxon's a shipping company

[lucid junco]

@robust latch Some problems with german

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Alaskan_Gulf_Documentary

[serene sage]

hmmm

interesting

[lucid junco]

Is that a fucking reference

[serene sage]

the German?

[lucid junco]

No, the spill

[serene sage]

yeah

same year

same level of destruction

though the german seems weird

I wonder if it's referring to any "metal pipes?"

[lucid junco]

Not really?

Its a home vhs

Some of them have german on top of it

Though its still weird

And still unsuported on wiki

[serene sage]

"sexy music"

[lucid junco]

I mean

Its a dad's shows

[serene sage]

who's dad doesn't watch German shows with sexy music?

[robust latch]

Any other German texts?

[lucid junco]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Dad's_shows

And All of the Magical woodland VHS tapes have broken tm sign

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Magical_Woodland_Fox

[robust latch]

Besides that

[lucid junco]

Dunno

[robust latch]

added ™'s

thanks for pointing out

I dont think we need a navbox for Randomized Stories -> https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Tasks#Navboxes. What does everyone think? Mid?

[serene sage]

yeah they don't really warrant one specifically

[distant osprey]

How do I manage to make the categories sorted by "{{DISPLAYTITLE:name}}" rather than sorted by original name ? (If this is even possible of course)

Example : (Bleeding and Bored)

[proud cobalt]

They need a navbox of some kind

[proud cobalt]

Not sure if it is possible. Pinging @languid kayak and @digital helm so they dont miss it

[proud cobalt]

The values likely just need to be changed to West Point/tr @digital helm

[digital helm]

Nah, unfortunately this isn't possible, as far as I know. DISPLAYTITLE just changes how the title is displayed, it'll always sort by the page name.

[distant osprey]

Ahhh sad 😦 This is messing up the alphabetic order sort and it's kinda ugly haha 😅

[digital helm]

Are you able to remove {{ll}} with the bot in these templates? I'll add that to the template instead of a normal link (I completely forgot about translations)
@languid kayak

[digital helm]

It's not really the intended use, it's just what we decided to use it for. Default MediaWiki doesn't even allow you to change the characters (it's only used for styling such as italics and capitalisation).

[digital helm]

Only if it's part of another Navbox. But may not be necessary

[distant osprey]

So I should remove the Displayname ? 😮

[digital helm]

No, keep using it

It's just that we use it for things it wasn't intended for, so there's some weirdness with it

[serene sage]

actually now that I think about it I think they should since there is a lot of repeat information like spawn chance and the status of the burglar alarm

[proud cobalt]

Navbox not infobox
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Navbox_items

[serene sage]

oh

still I think it should

dang all these wiki boxes

mboxes, navboxes, infoboxes

[distant osprey]

Can't we do things with this option ? I'm not used to use some wiki stuff so maybe you would understand this better than me : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categorization/Sorting_names

[distant osprey]

WOOOOH I managed to do it !! 😱 🤯 🙌🏻 @digital helm

Need to add {{DEFAULTSORT:<sort key (first title letter)>}} in the article code and it works, and it will works for all the categories the article is in !

Now Angry/fr is in his proper place 🥰

[digital helm]

Oh awesome! I've never had to look into it so had no idea it was possible 😄 I'll make a note to add this to the translation guide

Will probably create a template for this (could it be built into the infobox?) so you just need to do something like {{Title|Colère}} and it'll sort it correctly in the category and change the title. Rather than having to add them separately

This is great that you found this, thank you!

[digital helm]

should see all of wikipedia's different types of mboxes. As far as I can tell, they're the same thing.

[languid kayak]

palim palim? What's that from?

[lucid junco]

Like the vhs or the sound effect

[languid kayak]

should be but won't twke a look at nearest time, sorry 😦

[distant osprey]

That'd be awesome to be honest

[distant osprey]

I'm glad that I found it haha, I was frustrated that it would display properly 😂

[languid kayak]

in a shop right now; doubt it's a reference (or is it? British chips)

irish actuslly

[languid kayak]

there should be a sortkey

[distant osprey]

Yes I found it @languid kayak 😁

[lucid junco]

McCoy chipping company

[serene sage]

7.99?

what is that price

[distant osprey]

Does a red little "verify" means it has been verified, or need to be verify ?

[digital helm]

Means it's a broken link. It links to the talk page for that page. So if it hasn't been created yet, it'll be red

If the tag is there at all it means it needs to be verified

Once verified, it should be removed

[distant osprey]

Alright, thanks, it's not a link tho, it's just here like this.

[digital helm]

What's the page?

[distant osprey]

Traits - At the end of Overview

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Traits

[digital helm]

Ah, because it's not using the verify template https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Verify

@languid kayak you know we have the verify template, right? https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Traits&type=revision&diff=200039&oldid=193907

[distant osprey]

Ah thanks, I will then use the verify template in the fr version I guess.

[digital helm]

I've changed it to the verify template. Feel free to change it back if it was using sup for a good reason @languid kayak

[lucid junco]

@digital helm Do we need a page for Fort Knox?

[digital helm]

@distant osprey @robust latch I've created this template if you'd like to start using it. Let me know if any issues. I've chucked it together quickly, so still need to finish the doc. https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Title

[lucid junco]

Even if its physically isn't the game, there are quite a lot of mentions about it

[digital helm]

This was discussed, I think it was decided no. @naive imp led that discussion

or, no, not at this stage

[digital helm]

I'm for creating it btw

[lucid junco]

At least it is mentioned, unlike the outreach center

Has a sign, and was planned to be added

[digital helm]

It was set in Muldraugh so Fort Knox could be added

[lucid junco]

So, if an outreach center with literally no info about it can exist, why fort can't

[digital helm]

I'm not against not having it, but would be a nice place to document all these things

[distant osprey]

Alright thanks !

[digital helm]

I don't really disagree with the decision to delete it, since this was all the content it had 😆 https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Fort_Knox&oldid=198865
But if you fill it out with all the info we have, I think it'd be good to have.

Same sort of thing as the chainsaw https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Chainsaw which I created, but Fort Knox has much more lore

[distant osprey]

I used it just now, and it works properly to rename the title AND sort it properly in the category. Thank you ❤️

[digital helm]

No problem. Figured it'd be quicker and easier to do. Much easier to remember too

[proud cobalt]

Should this be a bot task?

[digital helm]

Would probably be good

[distant osprey]

True, thanks, it will make it way easier then 😄

[proud cobalt]

If you could add it, i may finally be able to do something tomorrow

[digital helm]

added. I've replaced the building multi location one. Assuming that one is all done

[proud cobalt]

Cheers, yeah that should be done. Might get this one going before bed. alost 2000 edits

Should be no problem with replacing all of them? even english ones?

[digital helm]

Not that I can think of. All it does is uses DISPLAYTITLE and DEFAULTSORT

no parser functions, just magic words

[lucid junco]

We have its sign

VHS tape

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Operation_Fort_Knox

[digital helm]

yeah there's potential to add a fair bit of info. It just didn't have any more info than the future features page, hence why it was changed to a redirect

[lucid junco]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Fort_Knox_Documentary

[digital helm]

I don't see any issue with creating it, so long as there's content

Also this one https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Classified_M1A1

and the people on the radio broadcasts that were imprisoned

[lucid junco]

We have Joe

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/LBMW_-_Kentucky_Radio#July_13_1993

[proud cobalt]

Started, its an overnight task but ill watch it till i go to bed. 18 second api rate limit

[digital helm]

perfect, nice and speedy 😆

I think this is peak time though, and a weekend...

[proud cobalt]

Yeah its no problem, 10 hour eta lol

Looks good
https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title='Til_Death_Us_Do_Part/no&diff=prev&oldid=393617

https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=.223_Round/ru&diff=prev&oldid=393623

[lucid junco]

Though I'll do it later, Im now deep into fixing the translation

In game

[digital helm]

Yeah, working good. I was wondered how to resolve languages that use different characters

[proud cobalt]

Oh it sorts based on its own script. Thats good

Good find @distant osprey this will be so much better for language users

[distant osprey]

Yes 💪🏻 Thank you

I was really frustrated that this wouldn't be sorted properly under proper catergories that I was hard working on finding a way to sort this out 😅 Hotheaded lol

[languid kayak]

Polish zloty. They are hell expensives since they are imported. But for idk ehat readons all chips areexpensive now. Beer is 3-4 PLN nowadays on regular prices, drops to 2 PLN on sales nowadays, dueto grill season and chain of markets fighting with prices nowadays lol

[serene sage]

wow it’s 3 CAD for a tiny bag of PZ themed chips

pretty expensive indeed

[lucid junco]

@languid kayak@proud cobalt Im curious, where decals on the cars are within PZ folder

So we can add them to their respective pages, with a bit more quality

Though thats more relevant to https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Advert_Trailer

Also, ValuInsurance needs to be moved to ValuIn$urance
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/ValuInsurance

I cant do it, since its a redirect

[robust latch]

Is "Save and be saved" part of an advert somewhere?

[serene sage]

it’s on ValuInsurance’s ad trailer

[proud cobalt]

A standard beer can cost up to $10 AUD here

[proud cobalt]

Not sure sorry, never touched decals. Faal did decals for clothing so he might know

[distant osprey]

I was wondering if the mbox Page Version should be added to the pages we updated or just translated from the english with page version mbox. And If it's better to set it up, then I would like to be able to translate the mbox (currently impossible).
This one : {{Page version|41.78.16}}

[proud cobalt]

Its not translatable because its for the English pages only, not sure if theres any plans for language pages to ever use them

[digital helm]

In the textures folder somewhere, that's all I remember

[digital helm]

Because other languages are supposed to be translated from the English page, we decided it wasn't needed. That and that the translate extension we've been looking at getting makes it more obvious if a page's translations are up-to-date

We did have a separate mbox for translations that would state if it was updated more recently than the English page, but we ended up not going through with it because 1) it'd be replaced by the translate extension, 2) we'd have to update every page to add it (negating the point of it in the short term), and 3) it wouldn't be accurate as bots would be frequently updating it

To make tracking a bit easier we're relying on the translate extension

But, I guess knowing the version that it's updated to may be helpful for the reader @swift warren

[languid kayak]

There are craft beers thst are for 10+ PLN in shops, and beer in restsurants nowadays are 15 or more PLN for half a liter, but normally a regular beer (0,5 l) is for up to 5 PLN nowadays. Regular prices usedto be cheaper pre-pandemic

[languid kayak]

I don't mind having it too actually

[languid kayak]

not sure tbh

[lucid junco]

"Valu" is a really big company

They produce widespread electronic devices(tv, radio, walkie talkies), tires (ValuTire), cars (Franklin Valuline) and have their own insurance company

[lucid junco]

Speaking about cars

Car pages are a mess

Alot of them are unfinished

[robust latch]

Categories arent displayed in local language, instead they are displayed as Boilerplates/tr, Deprecated templates/tr etc. https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Tr. Which mixes everything. I remember a discussion about nothing to about this, so maybe changing categories back to DISPLAYTITLEis better? Atleast they would be consistent in English. Unless there is a fix.

[lucid junco]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Franklin_Valuline

Done

[distant osprey]

Alight thanks for the explanation 🙏🏻

[lucid junco]

Ive brought the infobox gallery before, I think one of the main arguments was that it would be inconvenient for the mobile users, buuut since we have a new theme - its neat both on mobile and desktop

Though we were discussing it with @digital helm , not ThinkDock

Im not sure why he hadn't responded yet, but maybe he missed it

[lucid junco]

@languid kayak Should we change Beer and Liquor redirect into disambiguation?

Due to the whole Beer & Liquor and Beer + Liquor confusion

[languid kayak]

dunno, there's {{About}} already, and and is more "&",, thiugh we have+es translated as and elsewhere....

[lucid junco]

Yep, found it

[lucid junco]

[serene sage]

it’s more so that a lot of brands like to emphasize value

they’re all different companies

also the Franklin Valuline is made by Franklin

not Valuline

[naive imp]

What's wrong with them? I think they're fine

I did most of em a while ago

Also yeah I don't think valu is necessarily a brand, more like an amalgam for cheap stuff

Like cheap tech, cheap, mediocre tires, etc

[lucid junco]

Brand names were wrong on Franklin Valuline

Loot distribution was lacking

But I think Ive overestimated

[naive imp]

How was it lacking? Admittedly I haven't checked them in a while but I listed where you could find them concisely

[lucid junco]

Many car variants were absent and those that did hadnt included a lot of items

And as I said, I overestimated it, because pages didnt have images at all on mobile for me

But It was probably a network issue that I couldnt double check before coming home

[naive imp]

Ohhhhh you mean the loot that can be found IN the cars

Yeah I missed that

[lucid junco]

Yep

[lucid junco]

It is completely absent from the page some pages

[naive imp]

Yeah back when I did the cars we didn't really do loot distro

That came later

[lucid junco]

It is only relevant for cars with variants, but oh boy, its really relevant

As an example, I didn't know that ranger car can spawn with shotgun, shotgun shells and various trap

And it isnt a 0.00 something percent, but around 30%

[languid kayak]

Not sure it's the same company? Though might be 🤔

[languid kayak]

Yeah, was one of the first projects being completed, but so much time has passed that they need some extra love now 😄 There were tests of extracting car models too, but no solid projects came out of it on wiki. I was also thinking that they should get some updates nowadays.

[languid kayak]

That's a valid point; pages looks god. Not sure if it's mediawiki's or DISPLAYTITLE extension fault 🤔. Pinging @digital helm for this.

[distant osprey]

@robust latch #pzwiki_editing message

This is made to solve the category sorting problem with displaytitle. I used it and it works 👍🏻 but you have to delete the {{DISPLAYTITLE:X}} template and replace it by {{Title|X}}

[languid kayak]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZUHHn-SZaM – the last 5 ways that won't kill you are interesting, I don't think we have them all documented on the wiki?

as in cold, hyperthermia and encumbrance health caps

[lucid junco]

Im dying a little inside when people say "infection slow downs the healing rate"

As someone who had tested it multiple times to be 100% sure that it does not

[languid kayak]

yeah, the actually make it heal "faster", as you don't take time to reapply bandages

I genuinely didn'r knew about hypothermia and generators though

I never tried placing generator inside for this reason alone, but staying at 1 HP seems lethal enough :D. I do abuse the weight on though

[lucid junco]

I didn't knew about generators either

Since I believe there is a sandbox tooltip, which implies that you will die from it

Not sure about it now

As a sidenote, you cannot die from a deep wound if you bandage it

Although it can drain a lot of health

And it does fully heal without stitches

[lucid junco]

And you dont get extra pain

[robust latch]

Yeah b42 is very promising but Electrical and First Aid skills are a joke right now, they could use some updates

[languid kayak]

yeah, the electrical is barely worth above 2 points or so, most folks don't bother to reach 5 to even see you can change devices to battery-powered (which in current meta is not worth it, as batteries are rarer than fuel right now)

[lucid junco]

It was on the wiki

[languid kayak]

btw I guess this could use straigthening up too? https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Annesia_perfume_for_her_billboard.png It also doesn't have a transarent background

[serene sage]

weird how it only drains health to 1%

while heat will 100% kill you

is the cold really more survivable than heat?

[lucid junco]

Heat?

[languid kayak]

According to the video, the heat won't too

[serene sage]

really>

?

[lucid junco]

Yes?

[serene sage]

interesting

[lucid junco]

Cold also doesn't kill you

[serene sage]

yeah well every single zombie can one-shot you so it might as well e a death sentence

also they really need to fix first aid in the game way more than electrical

literally first aid is one of the few skills I've never had a single level in

I know it's useful

[lucid junco]

I didn't touch it since it isnt present anywhere as far as I believe

[serene sage]

but there's no way to level it without harming your character

[lucid junco]

Just don't get hit

™

[serene sage]

right!?!

like usually I don't get hit at all int he first few weeks of any save

first aid is just sitting at 0 xp

and there's no need to treat infections

even though irl wound infections = die

[lucid junco]

I think there is also a problem with wounds themselves

I think the most common wound is one that is dealt by zed

And its the most deadly

[robust latch]

You may want to treat infections or prevent them from occuring, just to fasten the heal rate. Limb injuries are usually pain in the ass

(I hope this information is correct)

[distant osprey]

And so the antibiotics are absolutely useless since infection is not a real problem. Tho it's rare af :/

[serene sage]

yeah but it isn't a "you will die" sort of thing

also it's the 1990s in Kentucky

[robust latch]

Exactly my thinking

[lucid junco]

Since you are throwing a d100 and d4 after getting hit by a zed, eventually you will roll a 1

[serene sage]

where are all of the cold medicines?

literally

if you have a cold

the doctor will recommend you search in the forest for a specific herb

or you know

"just wait it out"

[lucid junco]

In mother Russia, we still have to go into the forest to find herbs from the cold

[lucid junco]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Common_Mallow

[serene sage]

oh great

it's like we're in the stone age when it comes to meds

[serene sage]

don't the herbs come and find you?

[lucid junco]

If only

[serene sage]

yeah, but what about cold pills, or cold syrup

[lucid junco]

You said it, we are in Kentucky 1993

I heard dinosaurs were still alive at that time

[serene sage]

ah yes

the dinosaurs

also isn't taking beta blockers every time you meet a large horde prescription drug abuse?

I don't understand why drugs meant for lowering blood pressure can make your character feel calm

[lucid junco]

Who is there to stop you

Cops?

[serene sage]

yes

they came today

[lucid junco]

Cant wait to B42 introduction of beta blockers overdose

Gotta mix them with sleeping pills for a full effect

[serene sage]

who let bro cook

also food sickness sucks in game

eat one burnt steak = ded

makes no sense

people irl do that all the time

[lucid junco]

Drink bleach = dead

Bleach = steak

[serene sage]

*raw/rotten/burnt steak

[lucid junco]

Every burnt, raw, rotten food and tainted water = bleach

[serene sage]

the fact that I have to double check the name of every perishable food my character eats says a lot

[languid kayak]

it is in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Perfume#Gallery

[languid kayak]

you can technically patch other players in multiplayer, other than that, yeah

[languid kayak]

it can be exploited with leveling cuts from the glass or running tress, but yeah. I saw someone suggesting random cuts from things like cooking or mechanics

[serene sage]

I know, but every time I try to patch up my neighbors they try to bite me

[serene sage]

my survivor contemplating self harm so that they can learn how to bandage wounds:

[languid kayak]

I once had a forum suggestion for realistic medicine, I remember it jad some good feedback, but nothing came out of it so far.

[serene sage]

interesting

[languid kayak]

Maybe I don't overdose it, but I regurarily eat burnt and rotten food as well as eat poisonouse mushroom with weak stomach on my character and everything's fine 🤔

I guess it's the dose of it.

[serene sage]

yeah I've noticed that sometimes

it's weird

[languid kayak]

Is it ValuIn$urance or Valu In$urance?

I think it does have a space; the same is in the pzmap

[languid kayak]

I changed it to the one with space btw

[distant osprey]

Ok, I have a problem with this template (Archive mbox) while I followed all the steps like for all others Mboxes, and it's the only one that is causing me some troubles. Anyone could help me solve this please ? 😅

I double check if I repeated something somehow, but it doesn't seem so, i'm kinda lost

[languid kayak]

pinging @digital helm for that

[proud cobalt]

This should have all been done by the bot now. But in future you're correct use Title template

[proud cobalt]

Yep totally useless. Infections should be a really scary thing. Having an infected wound is deadly in itself irl.

[proud cobalt]

Your poor survivor

[proud cobalt]

Looks like Ksilem got that fixed up for you
https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Template%3AArchive%2Ffr&type=revision&diff=398281&oldid=398245

[lucid junco]

Either or

They are visibly separated

Especially in the trailer advert

[lucid junco]

Aight, I will straighten it then

Though obviously not today, getting my room wrecked rn

[lucid junco]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:93.2_LBMW_Bilboard.jpg
Added in deletion notice

.jpg files arent working properly for some reason

I cant upload, nor update .jpg file

[languid kayak]

that, and they are constantly overencumbered, too hot, depressed, anxious, have exercise extertion… should I continue to count :D?

[proud cobalt]

I build my survivor 100% around strength and fitness. I can train anything else. But they are always overheating and usually dehydrated

[languid kayak]

The longest survivor I managed to have has 5 or 6 fitness and strength starting from 0 😄

Exercises help, but just springing and being abandoned gives a steady amount, so it's not undoable.

I never had luck finding barbells and such too.

[languid kayak]

back in 2020 😛 https://theindiestone.com/forums/index.php?/topic/29230-realistic-medication-names/#comment-294584

[serene sage]

back in the ice age I see

back when the clock ui looked like this 😛

[distant osprey]

Thank you @robust latch 🙏🏻

[robust latch]

Np

[lucid junco]

After weeks of pointing attention to signs in my city, businesses that are called as is (pharmacy, fast food eatery, buffets, ect), don't seem to be that off putting

Strange how it seems weird in game, but not irl

[serene sage]

just seems ominous

just a building with "Burger" plastered on its side

[serene sage]

@lucid junco oh look someone stupid enough to leave their little map on a store shelf

no way it's the military apartment map

hell yeah

[lucid junco]

Thats a general store in WP

I knew that general stores had a "mechanic" item set with a random map, but interesting to note that it can spawn annotated ones

[serene sage]

I think almost anywhere a map can spawn an annotated one can as well

the store also had a sledgehammer as well which is cool

overall West Point is a big W

[lucid junco]

It really is a wp general store

Been starting at the pz map so hard, that it had burned into my memory

That what double checking every business in the game gives you

[serene sage]

I have PTSD from doing all the survivor stories

I have to avoid houses with birthday parties to not get flashbacks

[lucid junco]

I remember respawning in a house with that even

[lucid junco]

https://tenor.com/view/akira-leave-me-alone-tiktok-meme-reaction-gif-9595462199354763206

[serene sage]

yeah the game doesn't check to see if there are zombies in there before spawning you in

only happens when you make a new character in a pre-existing world

[proud cobalt]

I'm thinking all of these meta pages should go in a category together, I was thinking the tiles category would work best. Makes it easier to keep track of them. Thoughts @languid kayak @digital helm @tough depot
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Gate

[languid kayak]

Times of me being active on forums and not on wiki, old times 😄
(Though I liked the small suggestion threads, not sure how much read it is now, but a lot of things from there were implemented during b41; or reporting small issues on forum and back when there was a public bug tracker, will try to get more into it once b42 drops)

[languid kayak]

https://tenor.com/view/tv-family-guy-pepperidge-farm-remember-gif-7555951312549958006

Though ironically, my first experience with PZ was spotty; bought it on Desura back then after I liked the tech demo, though it was past the NPC and robbery, past the PayPal and Google Checkout problems, then left the game till version 3x (not sure what it was? 35?), missed a few builds, and then came back at 39, 40 and now 41 with a breaks respectively 😄

[languid kayak]

pinging @thin cloud for that, not sure you want to change, but in adverts it's ValuInsurance (no space), and on the signs it's Valu In$urance with a space, so I guess the ads should at least have a space too (or not, up to you, but pinging you since you wanted some feedback and I think this one wasn't touched back then :))

[languid kayak]

Weird, is the replacement uploaded? If so, I can remove it

[languid kayak]

gotta try the Tarkov inventory mods, though I like to stay vanilla for wiki reasons 😄

[languid kayak]

Yeah, I think I touched that briefly too, maybe not explicitly saying about a category, but that's the best way to group them

[digital helm]

Yes, I agree. I think the same could be done with locations

[digital helm]

I never noticed that categories didn't display the display title on category pages. I'm not sure why this is.
@proud cobalt could we change {{Title|XX}} back to {{DISPLAYTITLE:XX}} for only the Category namespace? I'll add a bot task

[digital helm]

actually, hold off on this @proud cobalt I might just add it to the template, to check for the Category namespace

[proud cobalt]

Tarkov clothing UI =
Inventory tetris =

[lucid junco]

Yep

[proud cobalt]

Hmm i tested it on a category and it seemed to work so i went ahead with it. Does it not work?

[digital helm]

display title doesn't get displayed for subcategories https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Character/tr

I've added a check to the template so it doesn't change the sort key for Category pages. It's a bit hard to test, and category pages are a bit slow to update, so I'm waiting to see if it's worked

[robust latch]

In any case, I am fine with Englishlink/tr sorting aswell.
Another issue with the Turkish characters, letters are that they are pushed to the end, after "z". Here: https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Category:Tr&pagefrom=S Stor-A-Max%2Ftr#mw-pages

abcçdefgğhıijklmnoöprsştuüvyz

[lucid junco]

Indeed

[naive imp]

@languid kayak @digital helm why was the testing mbox removed? How else are we to differentiate between build 42 features and build 41?

This is especially important for location pages since there will be a refresh in build 42 and a lot of people will still play on 41 because mods

Is there another way we're going to denote this?

[digital helm]

It's built into the page version template https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Page_version

[naive imp]

Oh wow I'm a fuckin idiot

Lol

[digital helm]

lol

you're good

[robust latch]

@serene sage I think the maximum annotated maps a player can obtain is 43, according to my in-game tests. There are 75 annotated maps in total. I believe some annotated maps arent obtainable because they are "bugged", even when ignoring the annotated map cap. Or maybe all of the 32 maps are bugged and not obtainable at all, and there isnt a so to speak "annotated map cap" for each town. According to my first test the obtainable annotated map count for each town are like this;
Rosewood -> 2
Riverside -> 3
Louisville -> 10
March Ridge -> 5
West Point -> 10
Muldraugh -> 13

[naive imp]

Just the page template we use on literally every page no big deal

You know kinda hard to see? /s

[digital helm]

to be fair, we haven't used it yet, so hopefully it works properly 😄

for beta versions I mean

[naive imp]

I don't see why it wouldn't work

If it doesn't the mbox can always be undeleted for a short time while we fix it

[digital helm]

so long as we don't get some weird version naming, it should work

[serene sage]

interesting, though the odds do drop off after the 20th annotated map or so

with settings cranked to the max we get four to six maps per gas station

later on it became difficult to find even a single map

[robust latch]

This is how my screen looks like

[robust latch]

I observed that too

[serene sage]

oh, so that's how you got the maps 😛

I tried killing zombies to get them but it took way longer than just visiting every convienence store in Knox Country

[robust latch]

I think the count will be lesser than 43, I am only able to find West Point or Muldraugh annotated maps from now on, the count was going down 1 by 1 after some point, but my last 2 annotated map finds were resulted in a reduction of four maps instead of two in stashdebuggers

[robust latch]

Yep

Ok its done.
Muldraugh -> 11
West Point -> 8
So in total 39 annotated maps

For this save

Lets hope second save will be the same so that we can verify* this information

My english bro.

[serene sage]

ah yes

"verify"

the game will totally give you the same number of maps

[robust latch]

Didnt kill them btw, they spawn with 0 hp so they are dead on spot

[serene sage]

oh so that's how you spawn corpses

🤦‍♂️

[proud cobalt]

I wonder why the amount is so arbitrary 🤔 and will it go up with added locations, or is it linked to something else

[languid kayak]

speaking of which, I guess you can add back build 41.78.16 counting? That or remove the counting for retrieve which is part of code as that's where it stopped I think 😄

[languid kayak]

I never actually noticed how it works; is it one map / save? Is it the same for the home VHS and CD?

Also, how does annotated maps work for the visited locations? Does it respawn loot there or is the loot generated on the game start?

[serene sage]

I think it is one specific annotated map per save

[languid kayak]

and what if you visited the location of the annotate map before? Is it excluded from the spawn?

Also, since (if I understand correctly), I also see some collaboration with pzmap/location project with marking locations of the houses, unless we don't want to have them marked on the map for spoilers reasons 😛

[serene sage]

I think if you have ever entered the cell the building it's in the map doesn't spawn

[languid kayak]

I wonder if this can be changed somewhere with mediawiki settings. 🤔 Pinging @digital helm for thoughts, but if so, it might involve Kirrus to actually chnage. Gotta dig though mediawiki documentation for that and see how it's solved on other mediawiki projects

[serene sage]

otherwise when you kill a zombie with a nearby map the house will automatically turn into a survivor home in front of your eyes which is kinda weird 😛

no idea though

might need to check the code

[languid kayak]

Seems fine in random category on tr wikipedia: https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kategori:Adliye_nâzırları @robust latch @digital helm

https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgCategoryCollation

[digital helm]

I think it's from the code retrieved. I removed it from the page version template if it's equal to the stable build.

[digital helm]

no idea off the top of my head 😄 would require some digging. But very low priority for me right now

[languid kayak]

the link below seems what determins the rules of sorting for categories, but not sure what value we have it set (and not sure if anyone else than Kirrus can check :P)

Also these:

After changing this option, you must run updateCollation.php to recompute sort keys for all pages, or your categories will be sorted inconsistently.
Updating collations is slow and may take several hours on large wikis.

And here's the script documentation https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:UpdateCollation.php

The run time of the script depends on the number of rows in the categorylinks table, and for extremely large wikis may take over 24 hours. (A run on the English Wikipedia in September 2016 took around a week: phab:T136150.)

[robust latch]

Yeah, this all feel too advanced for me 😄

[robust latch]

Yeah this is correct

I have witnessed an interesting reveal regarding annotated maps, nothing %100 confirmed yet, but its bone-chilling

MY second save, I decided not to read maps and just loot them. I have already looted 54, and new annotatd maps are keep appearing on corpses. Now with the 54 annotated maps in my inventory, guess how many maps left in stashdebuggersui? 21. Which both sums up to exactly 75. Which indicates, as long as you dont read annotated maps, theoratically you can loot all annotated maps.

Now i wont stop looking, and i will not read annotated maps until i find all 75, once that happens, I shall go ahead and read all of them to see if there is any similar annoatated maps

If not we can confirm this find

[serene sage]

Project Zomboid is a perfectly balanced game with no exploits

[lucid junco]

@languid kayak Did this idea got through ThinkDock, or he hadnt replied yet?

[serene sage]

you totally can't abuse this fact

[robust latch]

Definetely. But I think all of the annotated maps should be lootable in the first place, however extremely rare they may be

[digital helm]

should be removed from the retrieved template now (code section) https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Template%3ARetrieved&type=revision&diff=398479&oldid=313741

[robust latch]

It is confirmed. As long as you dont read annotated maps, you can loot ALL of them

I have found 74 annotated maps, all unique, couldnt find 75th just because i got bored, but 75th can be looted too.

[lucid junco]

Are they different from each other

[robust latch]

The only map that doesnt have annotated maps is Northeast* Louisville

[robust latch]

Yes they are

I checked every single one

[serene sage]

shhhhh

keep it down
maybe TIS is watching

[lucid junco]

tf

how does this work

[serene sage]

I feel like restarting my run

I’ve gotten 12 maps but I read them 😭

[robust latch]

Couple interesting facts besides the not reading them is the better strat;
1-Yes as Mid said, the more you find them, it gets progressively more difficult to find annotated maps, but this i think also includes regular vanilla maps too.
2-A unique annotated map can only spawn once, which means upon being looted, it doesnt spawn again. But I wonder a situation where if a zombie has annotated map and if you dont loot that (dont put it in your inventory), does the same annotated map have a chance to spawn elsewhere again?

[serene sage]

it probably never spawns again no matter what

[robust latch]

But that means you have to check every single zombie at all times :(.

[serene sage]

yup

Proximity Inventory to the rescue

[robust latch]

I ll try to test this problem

I think if you dont loot it it should still be able to spawn somewhere else, maybe i am too positive about this

[serene sage]

this is actually huge tho

I've seen many YouTubers try to find the coveted March Ridge Military Apartments map

what they do is they immediately look at each map after looting them

not knowning it hurts their chances of finding it

[robust latch]

I got 2 tests in mind to perform; first lets check the annotated map spawn repeatability, can it respawn on somewherelse if not looted. (Shouldnt be too hard to test, but idk how to approach rn)
The second test will be about a worst case annotated map scenerio. Lets read every single annotated map we put hands on, read them one by one, before looting the next annoated map.

[robust latch]

bruh

[serene sage]

they also do it in the middle of a dangerous main road as well

at least I collect a few and go back to base before looking at them

[robust latch]

Thats the way to go. I am not interacting with game map or any item maps unless I am absolutely safe .

Got scratched by a zombie in only unprotected part in my character, while reading a map thinking i cleared all zombies, fuckin died

[serene sage]

I sneakily pause the game while the map is open as well

I do wonder what's the best settlement in PZ is if we ignore the apocalypse for a moment

which town would be best for living a normal life?

[lucid junco]

Either WP or RW

[serene sage]

Rosewood barely feels like a town at all

it's really small

[lucid junco]

But it has everything that other towns lack

Big police station

Fire station

clinic

[serene sage]

are you breaking into police stations on a regular basis?

though I guess no one would dare try anything illegal in RW

[lucid junco]

School is definitely better, if we assume that every school in the game has the same quality of education

Since there would be less kids, so it would definetly be the least overcrowded

Unlike other towns

And there are other quality of value features

So it basically has everything that bigger towns have, but since pop is smaller it would be more convenient

Though maybe there could be some employment problems

But its still really good

[robust latch]

Curious. This time it kept on spawnning annotated maps, despite reading them all one by one. Nothing was wrong about reading annotated maps

So what the fuck?

[lucid junco]

Maybe the annotated maps bug was friends we made along

[serene sage]

https://tenor.com/view/out-disappear-bye-vanished-gif-4932063

the annotated maps bug

[robust latch]

The second test also seems to suggest reading them one by one isnt affecting the spawning

But what on the good earth was wrong then

In the first test, I was cross checking every time I read one annotated map, the stashdebuggerui annotated map count got reduced by 2,3,4 sometimes 1 as it should

[serene sage]

weird

ok cool guess I won't restart then

[robust latch]

Third test 71 annotated maps

Can I get some consistency

68 for the fourth one

fifth one 75 again

sixth 72

Idk. Get good is the motto when it comes to annotated maps i guess

"Just be lucky to not get the bugged save"

7th test: 65 maps

[robust latch]

8th and final test is 48 maps

[serene sage]

48?

that’s low

[lucid junco]

https://tenor.com/view/rookie-numbers-gif-26135237

[lucid junco]

Done

[languid kayak]

was thinking about it today too, pinging @naive imp for it, though I am short on time this week to do much on wiki right now

[lucid junco]

I see the problem of pictures being different sizes, so infobox jumps when switching between them

But maybe we can make it fixed to the biggest pic?

[proud cobalt]

Has anyone found the Java files related to Annotated maps?

[serene sage]

been trying to but it's impossible

they're trying to hide the secret recipe

also I managed to open the world map from the main menu

[proud cobalt]

I might have a look tomorrow. Want to try get back on tiles first

[naive imp]

@lucid junco I personally disagree with the multiple images of locations in the infobox. My case for it is that the gallery is big and in your face, rather than having to notice clickable elements.

I know a lot of people who aren't very "website-savvy" and may not notice the additional images

Giving it a dedicated section in the gallery makes it far more visible

If the majority is for it then I suppose it stands, but I think a good compromise would be to just both, even if it is a bit redundant. I don't want these files to go unseen by people as Ikip and I spent a lot of time on them

[digital helm]

I think that's a good point. I'm happy with both. The images in the infobox is just a fancy feature that indie wikis have started doing, so readers may not notice it. Especially since it's different between each wiki, and Wikipedia doesn't do it

[proud cobalt]

https://tenor.com/view/the-road-to-el-dorado-both-both-is-good-gif-8304204

[lucid junco]

Hooray, an answer

[languid kayak]

https://tenor.com/view/why-not-both-why-not-take-both-gif-11478682

[languid kayak]

So if we think both are good, I guess it'd be a bot task for CalvyBot to add the galleries to the infobox and my two sandbox can be gone? Pinging @proud cobalt for that, while I slowly will go through recent changes as i have a backlog (again :D)

I never realized that the 42 in Tattoo 42 might be a reference to Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (just cleaned the note a little), but realizing that, the PZ build 42 is The Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, The Universe, and Everything 😄

[lucid junco]

Exposure Survivor host also had served in the 42nd detachment

It isnt concrete reference, but devs could have chosen any other number, and not 42

Also, the [[wikipedia:]] tag is really cool

Didn't expect it to work with redirects

[languid kayak]

[[Wikipedia:]] and [[mw:]] (MediaWiki), there's [[zomboidweb:]] IIRCwhich redirects to projectzomboid.com.

I think we can't link to non-English Wikipedias though, that'd require Kirrus to add them. I also thought of linking to Fallout Wiki, but it wouldn't be used for anything really

except maybe one link here and then to the wiki itself

[lucid junco]

I thought it only works with names, eg [[wikipedia:Project Zomboid]]

But it also works with #

[[wikipedia:Project_Zomboid#Plot]] also works and redirects to the Plot

[languid kayak]

@digital helm ; should the Category: be translated or not? Noticed it is trnaslated e.g., here; https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Category:Moodles/fr&action=edit but ideally the "Category:" translation should be used from translatewiki/mediawiki built-in translation, not sure how translate extension solves it 🤔

[digital helm]

I've never been too sure how best to do namespace translations. It should be translated from translatewiki/user preferences, but by using DISPLAYTITLE it removes the namespace title, and it translating automatically

[languid kayak]

And what about translate extensions? I guess we don't know 😛 Vibrance did some local testing or we can read docs/set up testing one locally to check

Though I know that our DISPLAYTITLE extension changes things compared to MediaWiki

oh right and @naive imp I suppose images like https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Jaime's_Jam_Delights.png are expected to be replaced with a full exterior shot eventually?

I did merge the https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Muldraugh_Elementary/sandbox to https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Muldraugh_Elementary for testing; I guess the same should be done with a bot for everything else? Can wait a day or so before adding it to tasks till every one of you agrees 🙂

https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Muldraugh_Elementary&type=revision&diff=398565&oldid=352411

For @proud cobalt's bot, it'd be just copying screenshot(s) from the gallery and adding it to the infobox, assuming everything's correctly categorized and named shouldn't be too hard to automate.

[digital helm]

Yeah, waiting to see about that one 😄

We might have to change how we change the display title. Hopefully there's a better way with the translate bundle, but idk

[pallid cave]

it would be great if the Item ID were displayed by default

[lucid junco]

They are displayed in the code snippet

Not sure about infobox

[pallid cave]

it requires a click lol

[lucid junco]

You can also find all of the items ids on the items page

[lucid junco]

Technical

[pallid cave]

yes, it would help save a lot of time if it's expanded by default

also look better

[lucid junco]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Vehicle_maintenance

Items table has them by default

You can Ctrl+F items you need

[pallid cave]

it's hurting people with OCPD

the first thing I have to do when visiting each page is to click the technical heading

[serene sage]

yeah, personally I see no problem with this

it doesn’t bloat the page at all

and really it should just be a simple changing of the collapsed value to n the template

[naive imp]

Exactly my concern. I'd rather have it big and in your face than easily missed

[lucid junco]

@naive imp My Gmail gets bombarded by notifications of logos being moved

Not complaining, Id been bugged by the names Ikip gave them since the start of the project

[naive imp]

Exactly why I haven't set my email up yet

[naive imp]

We don't talk about Bruno

[proud cobalt]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-watchlist

Edit your watchlist, I have mine set to not automatically watch pages i edit

[proud cobalt]

@languid kayak Thoughts on moving this to Wheelie bin (old) and adding {{Archive}}

To make room for this. Or just replace

Weird that this page stayed in the cat @digital helm Any idea why?
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Notched_Wooden_Plank
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Version_41.78.16

[ember cloud]

Quick question: Once b42 comes out, will the PZwiki permanently switch over to the latest build or will there be an option to see older builds like b41?

[proud cobalt]

The wiki will have the most up to date information as soon as possible

[tulip kiln]

Unless we're doing it differently from how we did it in 41, we might have it so each updated page has a build 41 section and 42 section during the public beta, then when 42 releases, the old section will probably get removed

[ember cloud]

That makes sense. As excited as I am for b42, I have a lot of found memories of b41

[tulip kiln]

Yeah I ain't entirely sure if that's how we'll do it again though, it'd be up to the wiki admins and major contributors, they'd probably come to a decision.

If the 41 sections do get removed, while it might be tedious, there can be a way around it, you can view the page history and go back to old versions each time you wanna see the 41 versions. You'll see that option around the top of the page.

[digital helm]

It was using incver. I skipped checking for this as it would've been overly complex. Incver is deprecated anyway

[digital helm]

We had it hidden as to not overwhelm readers with details the majority of people won't care about. We can easily have it expanded by default, but we should be consistent with all the infoboxes. So this'll include showing the media ID, GUID, tile IDs, etc. which could end up being quite long. What are other's thoughts? @languid kayak

[digital helm]

Nah, we decided against doing it like this. We did it for b41, but it was too difficult to maintain, and have the page laid out properly.
The page version template at the top of the page will indicate what version the page is updated to.
We were looking at adding a history section, which we'd start with just having the b41 to b42 changes. Which I think is a good compromise

[pallid cave]

It could make modding a bit easier. Although it's just one click, for 100 pages, that's 100 clicks, which can save a considerable amount of time.

regular players also need to be aware of this information because it allows them to choose which items to include or exclude in the sandbox settings

hiding the information makes it difficult for some users to locate it

talking about accessibility, something that seems easy to us may actually be hard for others

[proud cobalt]

Accessibility also applies to mobile users which would lengthen the page too. Have to consider all use cases

[pallid cave]

yes, I'm also browse on mobile sometimes

[naive imp]

We definitely need a way for the readers to know about the build 41 version of articles. We have to somehow draw attention to the revision history. Ideas?

[tulip kiln]

No idea if this will even work since I don't know shit about the programming part or whatever. But would it be possible to make a header on the page or maybe something at the bottom, linking to the last b41 revision of the page?

[proud cobalt]

Oh of course lol, i thought we had cleared out all the incver months ago

[digital helm]

My concern is the length. Most pages it's fine, as they only have the one ID, but other's like the umbrella, has 8 IDs. https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Umbrella
Just seems like a lot of clutter to me that won't matter to most players (same reason the code section is hidden). We also have the items pages which lists all the item IDs https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Equipment
But I'm fine adding it if that's what the people want. It was just copied from the fallout wiki https://fallout.wiki/wiki/Watcher's_bandage

[digital helm]

I was thinking about this, but sadly there doesn't seem to be a simple way. Each revision has a unique id, which we can link to with Special:PermanentLink but you need to know the id. https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:PermanentLink
E.g. [[Special:PermanentLink/352979]]

[proud cobalt]

Would have to be done manually for each page, someone would have to pick the build 41 page to be used

[digital helm]

exactly

and can't rely on users to be able to find the id, then also add it

[digital helm]

we can link to the revision history simply enough, then they can navigate to the build 41 revision, but that's not going to be user friendly, especially if there's a lot of revisions since b41, or the summary isn't obvious

[proud cobalt]

I guess it could be possible to have the bot grab each current revision number and then use an mbox? Once we have a release date run the bot to grab every current page (even if we only do it in specific categories, such as items and tiles), then automatically populate an mbox above (or below) the header with the value being the revision. then when the time comes the bot can remove all of them? Not that i really would like to do it, i think we should focus all efforts on b42

[digital helm]

I'd thought of that, but yeah, a fair bit of work. Also, people may be continuing to update to build 41

[proud cobalt]

Its a big bot task, would be possible, also pinging @languid kayak for opinion because it would effect the whole wiki

[proud cobalt]

Thats my concern, but better than nothing?

[digital helm]

Whatever it is, I'd probably want to incorporate it into the page version template

[proud cobalt]

Would be much harder to remove than a standalone template i think

doesnt have to be an Mbox, just a link that says "Click here for a version of this page on build 41"

I'm not a massive fan of it overall, as ive said, but seems like people really care to still have access to B41 info

[digital helm]

Concerned about the UI design 🤔 if templates are easier to find, can always have a template within a template {{Page version|42.0|{{B41 link|xyz}}}}

but ideally, it'd just be {{Page version|42.0|b41_link=xyz}}

[proud cobalt]

Its doable, just more complex regex but chatgpt does that for me anyway

[digital helm]

either way I'm fine with

[proud cobalt]

Let me try get something working

Any work on the infobox script?

[digital helm]

Nothing since last week https://pzwiki.net/wiki/User:Vaileasys/sandbox_2 weapons are working good

[proud cobalt]

Looks good, weapons should be our priority anyway

[digital helm]

they're the harder ones to do too

[proud cobalt]

We should decide on a category to use for the autogenerated too. how about {{Autogenerated|B42}}

[lucid junco]

Just leave out the version?

It will automatically have an "Article isnt up to the current version"

[digital helm]

that'd be good. Or Build 42 😄

[digital helm]

Not sure what this would solve 🤔 this'd just make it so no one knows what version the page is updated to

[proud cobalt]

https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=User:Calvy/sandbox&diff=398725&oldid=398723

It automatically finds the last revision with `{{Page version|41.78.16}} and inserts the revision into the page

Obviosuly theres no logic behind this in the template yet, but proof of concept for the bot

[digital helm]

perfect

[proud cobalt]

Should i just look into adding the logic to the unstable section? or bot stable and unstable

[digital helm]

nah, will be simple to add to the template

I'm looking at it now

Not sure how subtle or obvious we want it. It'll only be added if the version is newer than the latest stable

[languid kayak]

yeah, was actually thinking whether we need it hidden by default @digital helm ? There's some not-so-technical information hidden by default too, I don't think we need the space so despeartely?

[languid kayak]

you can disable some notifications if you want, I did that 😄

[languid kayak]

This work too, I have it on but without e-mail notification, I am subsribed to way too many stuff on my mail anyway :/

[languid kayak]

Wouldn't adding the relevant info to trivia work?

[languid kayak]

It was asked before by someone too and indeed, last time it was both versions on same page, but this time round may be easier to go straight for b42 especially since most stuff are automated now (code, distributions), not sure about renames, guess we'll see it closer to release. Ideally I'd keep the history section explaining the difference that was back in the old wiki, or what TF2 wiki has https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Scout#Update_history https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Force-A-Nature#Update_history

[languid kayak]

I don't mind, yeah.

[languid kayak]

(was supposed to be a reply for this)

[languid kayak]

luckily the technical section isn't too long… I wonder if it'd be possible to have it user-configurable? Though may be a lot of work for it?

[languid kayak]

it crossed my mind too, but it'd be just a stopgap, as the old revision can't be changed (it's not a forking git-like structure), so if we'd change a templaate for example, it would stop working

[languid kayak]

These pages remind myself that I wanted to fix the boilerplates 😩. I thought the weapons would be faster, but I got carried with other stuff

[languid kayak]

One more reason for switching I guess 😄 But yeah, some pages right now have a lot, still. That, or maybe we should limit to 3 and then use see more after that.

[languid kayak]

Technically a read-only copy from b41 could be kept too, though it'd be a work for Kirrus for not sure how much benefit 🤔

[languid kayak]

You just give ChatGPT few lines and mark what you want from it to be extracted? I probably should do that often, as as far as I like regex, I am often too lazy to make one myself 😄

[proud cobalt]

Either that or I tell it exactly what I want it to do

[proud cobalt]

I don't think so, different info

[languid kayak]

You can indeed move it to separate page, but we'd be stuck having to maintain them both 😄 Maybe I'll figure something to have them combined, but till then, feel free to do as you say.

I thought of calling them as build name too, but not sure when they were added exactly

[digital helm]

I don't really see any need to keep it. It's the REALLY old functionality, so could just be updated to the current functionality. Then mention that it used to be moveable in pre-steam builds to trivia. That's what we've done with just about everything else

[digital helm]

limiting it to 3 kind of defeats the point of having it expanded, as you'll have to click to show them all. So may as well keep them all collapsed if we did that

I'll make technical start expanded and see how we feel about it. We can just change it back if we hate it

[serene sage]

is this actually the West Point Gun Range and Hunting Center? https://pzwiki.net/wiki/West_Point_Gun_Range_and_Hunting_Center

there's literally no gun range here

it's like two miles away from town: https://map.projectzomboid.com/#11971x6965x678

[lucid junco]

Its in the west point

Has Guns

[tulip kiln]

Yeah, the one in WP is the gun range and hunting center. Since that location in the 2nd pic is in valley station

[lucid junco]

Though it indeed lacks a shooting range

And has no hunting equipment

Apart from guns

[proud cobalt]

It's definitely a gun store, but is there anything to prove its a hunting center? I think mid is right here, theres no range

[lucid junco]

I think thats a good question to the Cool dude

[serene sage]

yeah there's no gun range

unless you count downtown West Point as one

[lucid junco]

"Downtown"?

Where

[serene sage]

here

it's a very nice shooting range

[lucid junco]

@thin cloud
So, for context, we had an add about some sort of West Point Gun Range and Hunting Center. However, there isnt a building that falls under both criteria.
The only one that associates with guns is this gun store, which we previously assumed to be what this add refers to.

Fun fact, there is only one gun range currently in the game, the one that mid had pointed out

But it definitely not referring to that one, since its in the Valley station, and cant be called a hunting center

[serene sage]

there's a hunting lodge nearby

[lucid junco]

Its a Knob Creek Hunting lodge

[serene sage]

right

well this is awkward

nothing matches the name of this business

[lucid junco]

Yeah, so it either should be named Knob Creek Gun Range and Hunting Center

West poing Gun Store

Or It will be expanded in B42

Which would be nice

[thin cloud]

Don't know. Definitely not that one, that's a gun store.

[lucid junco]

Aight

Thanks

@naive imp @serene sage (and others)

[serene sage]

I think it's a scam ad

or worse

it's some psycho luring some patriotic american citizens to their deaths

on a more serious note it seems to just be an oversight from the devs

possibly back then Valley Station wasn't called that, but idk

[lucid junco]

Ah yes

This whole area is West point

[naive imp]

I assumed it was the hunting center because that was the only gun store. I suppose we should remove the ad and move the page to "Gun store (West Point)"

[lucid junco]

Its a fair assumption

Since not like there is any other business that can corelate to this ad

[tulip kiln]

Nah, that'd be valley station past the bridge

[lucid junco]

Ik

[serene sage]

well it was just a guess that if Valley Station wasn't that large back in the day it might not have had a name

idk man I think it's just a hoax

the mandela effect, if you will

[languid kayak]

may be more to mappers though? Pat's only responsible for actual lore

(nvm, missed the reply)

[lucid junco]

Ive been changing titles to logos and got this message

[languid kayak]

first time seeing this, might as well forward to @restive adder? Seems it's a something from spam filter (also, can we modify the message? Seems the p aren't formattted properly)

[lucid junco]

https://tenor.com/view/yakuza-kazuma-kiryu-pissed-off-gif-14586175

Guess Ive been banned for mass renaming

Been nice knowing yall/j

[restive adder]

Please follow the instructions in the message and I'll get to it next time I can prod cleantalk. Make sure you're not using a VPN, sometimes that can mark you as dodgy

[restive adder]

modifying message added to todo list low priority

[lucid junco]

Nvm I guess

Either it went away by itself, or someone had unbanned me

[restive adder]

Please email me! I do need to train the spam filter, or it will learn that your IP/activity is suspicious, and you may find you get banned in many other places as well

It is annoying I know, but saves us so much with dealing with spammers

[proud cobalt]

Still email kirrus, but for future reference if you move too many pages too quickly it will get flagged, i try to do something else while i move pages, so about 2 pages moved per minute, that way i dont get blocked

[lucid junco]

Morning

[lucid junco]

Just send you an email, It was almost 1 am for me when you replied the first time and I wasnt exactly in the right mental state to do it.

[restive adder]

Is ok, know what that's like 🙂 thanks for email, should get to it later today

[languid kayak]

Watching a video from #tweets seems the unofficial Spiffo from out Spiffo page made it to the video 😄 https://youtu.be/BihzXeATpm4?feature=shared&t=296

[proud cobalt]

https://tenor.com/view/misinformation-spreading-spreading-misinformation-online-gif-4543841945782036495

[lucid junco]

Help

Signs irl arent perfectly aligned

[lucid junco]

Its funny how I thought Id get rate limited when mass updating images

[lucid junco]

@naive imp @digital helm What do I do

Id wanted to create a General Store page

But there is a General Store business page

[naive imp]

Move to "General Store (Doe Valley)" for now, create the page from the redirect page that is created

@lucid junco

[lucid junco]

Aight

[lucid junco]

General stores share gigamarts loot table

Unsurprisingly

[serene sage]

Gigamart is just a branded general store

just like walmart

[naive imp]

Well Wal-Mart is more of a department store if we wanna get technical

[serene sage]

seems like it's in between both kinds of stores

up here there are stores far larger than walmart but still not considered a department store

[naive imp]

I dodnt think size was the factor

[serene sage]

here we call it a "superstore" or whatever

department stores here don't sell cabbages

[lucid junco]

Its an american supermarket

Which is really different from at least what we call supermarkets in Asia

[naive imp]

Tbf American supermarkets are just completely different from about everything else

Where in Asia btw? In kinda nosy lol

[lucid junco]

Post soviet countries in general

So Middle east and Eastern Europe

Supermarket - big grocery store

[serene sage]

ok so supposedly these are the definitions:
general store - A small store found in rural towns where they sell a general assortment of items
supermarket - like what Sharp said, a big grocery store
superstore - any sort of large store (doesn't matter what it sells), such as Gigamart or American Tire
department store - a really large store that sells a large variety of items; basically a general store but for large cities

what gets confusing is that these definitions overlap like all the time

for example a hypermarket is a supermarket and department store combined, such as Walmart and Target (rip)

but people can also call hypermarkets "superstores"

also variety stores can sometimes be considered department stores

but I'd hardly say stores with leather handbags and stuff can be categorized the same as musty stores selling cheap chinese plastic things

and now wikipedia is telling me they're different

on the department store article it says variety stores are department stores

on the variety store page it's telling me they're not the same

[lucid junco]

What about american supermarkets?

Are they actually department stores?

[serene sage]

not american so I can't say anything about them sepcifically but for canadian supermarkets usually they don't have clothing or toys available, only food and drinks and maybe some cleaning products and toothpaste or whatever

america and canada are pretty similar so I'd say this is also true for the states

[lucid junco]

Not like Ive been there

[naive imp]

Supermarkets are usually big grocery stores with some extra stuff in Freedomland.

Think laundry stuff, pet supplies, cleaning supplies, kitchen equipment, batteries, condoms, etc etc

Some stuff from department stores

They're also fucking gigantic

Department stores in the states are fuckin insane too

There's talk of some Walmarts still selling firearms but I've never seen that personally

The range of different food in grocery stores is crazy too

Like you could go to a grocery store and get literally whatever you wanted like you're at a Butcher if you gk to the right one

[serene sage]

there's literally a chain of "supermarkets" here in igloo land and they're all at least twice the size of a Walmart

they have all sorts of shit like gyms and optometrists and currency exchanges

they even have their own credit cards and life insurance

they're owned by an even larger corporation here that has like 20 different supermarket chains

recently they're pretty garbage tho

the prices are inflated as hell in each and every one of those twenty chains

[naive imp]

Yeah Canada and the states are pretty similar

Welcome to the corpocracy lol

[serene sage]

yup, it’s pretty rough

can’t really say why this is happening because of the no politics rule but all I will say is

there’s no way prescription beta blockers can shoot up $8 in one month

[lucid junco]

There is also hypermarket and convenience store

Oh, you said about hyperstore

[serene sage]

convenience store - place where they sell obesity and lung disease to children

convenience store - a small store that stocks a range of everyday items, like food, drinks, and newspapers

[robust latch]

Yeah, just double checked it, annotated maps do vanish if you hover over a corpse that has one, even if you dont loot it. But say you killed 1000 zombies from a distance with a firearm and thus did not walk on top of any zed, you wont lose any annotated map for future.

[serene sage]

odd

[digital helm]

@proud cobalt with the tile meta pages, is there going to be a meta page for 'bed', 'chair', 'couch', etc. Or just 'bed'? Since they can all be used to sleep/rest

Just wondering where to have "Sofa" redirect to

[proud cobalt]

Already made chair which includes couches and Benches

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Chair

Not done but exists

[digital helm]

awesome, thanks

[proud cobalt]

np

[proud cobalt]

Thoughts on them being named plural or single? @languid kayak too

[digital helm]

I think singular

I think we should be using singular more often. Far easier to link to

[languid kayak]

same in europe, some even have bistros and optics inside (Tesco had it here once) - not in a shoppinf arcade whixh they also have, but inside the actual shop . Though right now they are not really popular anymore, most likely due to cost savings (and self checkouts and online services being more popular).

[languid kayak]

singular with plural rrdirecting if sane.

[lucid junco]

@digital helm It cant be updated

No shit

(Dont mind the torrent tab)

[digital helm]

Because you're trying to upload a PNG with the JPG extension, you have to upload a new image with PNG

Once all the links are directed to the PNG then the JPG will be deleted

[lucid junco]

A bit counter intuitive

Especially after Id tried(and failed) to update it with the same image, but in .jpg

So I thought that the whole format is broken

[digital helm]

Maybe there's caching issues (which happens a lot with images) but jpg should be fine

Just upload the image you want as a new image then change the pages that use the JPG to instead use the new PNG, then I'll delete the JPG

If it's called the same thing, just a different file extension, you'll probably get a warning. Just check ignore warnings

[lucid junco]

I had uploaded the straightened one under the different name a week ago

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:LBMW_Billboard_Advert.png

[digital helm]

Ok good

I only didn't delete it because pages were still using it

Once they're changed to use the new image, we're good to delete

I'll look again tomorrow and run through updating links for pages requested for deletion

[sharp axle]

kentucky did not stay safe

[lucid junco]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Ready_Prep_Army_Issue_Surplus_Trailer_Advert.png

[sharp axle]

W

bro o love graphics design but am to retarted to make it myself

[lucid junco]

Interesting

There are unused taxies in the game files

And the only difference is the Spiffo's ad on top

[languid kayak]

yeah, what vail said, it's a shorthand for uploading it again with a different extension 😄 IRL you can have a file with wrong extension, mediawiki won't allow it which is sand as it'd lead to confusion – plus the actual name would have to be changed to PNG anyway.

[languid kayak]

ProjectZomboid-build42-xxRELOADEDxx.rar

[languid kayak]

There's some unused decals on t-shirts too

[languid kayak]

btw; not sure we want to make a page for it, but b42 addition from #tweets

[serene sage]

my biggest fear now realized in PZ

fake meat

[languid kayak]

https://tenor.com/view/soylentgreen-people-cannibalism-soylent-food-gif-5486936

[lucid junco]

Wouldn't that go into tofu?