pzwiki_editing

[lucid junco]

Im done.. for now

[serene sage]

for the Suicide by Bleach story, the code seems to specify a minimum of 60 in-game days need to pass before it spawns, but I personally discover it much earlier

my current character (rip her I abandoned her for the PZWiki) found one by day 10

unless the days here are not in-game days 🤔

I might need to test

fly around in debug mode until I find it (or not)

[lucid junco]

@languid kayak @digital helm
Logosstraight - Finished ones
signs - Raw sign files
Logo - All of currently assembled logos
I highly recommend only using those, that are within tile sheets(logos1,logos2, ect)
All of the logos files had been done by me, these should be 99% accurate and good to angle/straighten. I had a lot of issues with those, that I had worked on.(locations _greenes, shopsighs, etc)
As I've said multiple times, when I try to straighten them, letters were looking really crooked. Those Id not recommend using.

I am around a bit more than half way done

[serene sage]

I sound like a psychopath

[lucid junco]

What lurking within pz code does to a man

So far, the most pressing issue wasnt transparency, it was straightening them:

1. Guessing how much space to leave in between words
   2)Having signs look like a bridge, even though there aren't any glaring misalignments
   3)Some logos/signs, even if aligned what feels like properly are clearly one pixel misaligned, but moving them up or down a pixel looks even worse.

But still, some transparent logos(Thunder gas, Bait & Tackle, and maybe more that I can't remember) become uglier with layers, and less readable.

1 pixel off issue
(Look at the lower part of a big N)

[frail fossil]

not sure what you mean

there is a pixel mistake in the original logo?

[serene sage]

here

misaligned bottom

[lucid junco]

Sometimes they disappear when I compile them the second time, but not even after that it stopped being a bit misaligned

Ill triple check it tomorrow

This one though is definitely less me, and more transparency issue

I had layered it untill it became solid, and suddenly, it became really jagged

And ugly, if being honest

[frail fossil]

1. you should not have to guess this, transform values should remain constant 2) i dont understand this one 3) i can see the pixel misalignement but i am not sure what would you like me to do about it 😄

[lucid junco]

At last, the student union lacks chunck of its sign

[frail fossil]

unfortunately i think there will always be problems with rectifying those logos as there are inconsistencies in how they were made

only way really is to manually edit them

but that might not be an option

[lucid junco]

Oh well, It could be done and finished around b43 release

[serene sage]

oh hey the theme changed 😎

[lucid junco]

And thank you for the response. I think Ill have more concrete things to say when Im finished with them.😄
As of now, LSU Student Union and Transparent ones have glaring issues with them that are 100% out of my control. Others can be attributed to me being not perfect.

Oh, and AI upscale doesn't work all that well, especially on logos that are supposed to have neon lights in them(Diner for example)

[frail fossil]

there is not pixel gap i can see on my side so it must come from your transform process

there was indeed a missing piece on the N

here is a fix version

but please, i appreciate the commitment, but we have a massive amount of tiles, it's going to be hard for me to get pinged everytime there is a problem to one

[lucid junco]

I understand, sorry for disturbing you

||Did I forget to remove the pings ||

[frail fossil]

i completely understand that you are trying to make the most perfect result possible, and i fully respect that, but because PZ is still in development it does not make sense to polish to that level before we are further down the line

anyway, i think you can fix those two mistakes with what i sent you

[lucid junco]

Thank you as always, Ill do it tomorrow, cause its 00:29 for me

[frail fossil]

😉

[languid kayak]

That might work, yeah. especially when you mention survivor stories being a subpart of building stories (I assume you're right on this, I never went that far into it)

yeah, I always wondered too, I'm not sure if I didn't hear some explanation somewhere?

Categories layout is nice, and about the stories, are the stories in all caps indeed? I remember them being sentence case, even friday was lowercase…

Yeah, it should I guess

I think it was named as "and" since + can't be used, but we can use Displaytitle to set it

(and refer it properly in the body)

We had that discussion, the problem is it's references weirdly. I even mentioned that to Pat last time

I think I was mostly impressed by https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Wok_%26_Rolls_Sign but it seems the "I ❤️" (and refered to "I love" in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Adverts) might indeed be part of the name, as signs are simplified/shortened, c.f. https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Jolly_Good_Sign

[languid kayak]

Yeah, Kirrus made it just a while ago 🙂

[serene sage]

thought he said tomorrow

or maybe tomorrow for him idk

[languid kayak]

time is relative 😄

but yeah, was an early gift 😄 I just made a site notice Vail left me, I might be a little tired, but I'm around for a while just in case someone want to ping me if something's wrong, but it was mostly @digital helm who took care of it. Can ping editors, but I don't think it's needed?

[robust latch]

Table and survivor stories are subparts of building stories, true. All i need is these 2 to be deleted, so that hopefully i will be able to use survivor stories apart from randomized stories: https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Category:Survivor_stories&redirect=no and https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Survivor_stories&redirect=no.

[languid kayak]

I can delete it, but can't you just overwrite the content?

Keep in mind the pages won't be moved

[robust latch]

how so

[languid kayak]

just editing over it? Removing is when you don't need page anymore, anyway, I noticed you were the only contributor anyway, so I guess no big harm and removed those two you linked anyway, keep in mind there's https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Talk:Randomized_stories I left though

I gotta clear my backlog of zomboid pages to take a look later btw

[robust latch]

But I need the "Survivor Stories" link. I cant create it because it redirects me to "Randomzied Stories", which is the top category&article for this subject now

Anyawy thanks for deletions

This can also be deleted: https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Survivor_stories&redirect=no, thanks for pointing it

[languid kayak]

you should be able to write over the #REDIRECT [[XXX]] if you click tha page name that redirects yo

but np 🙂

[robust latch]

This is my second "Move" tool action but now i gotchu

I have learnt

[robust latch]

I have made the category, {{main}}, and header changes, they are consistent, as well as logical in respect to each other but i hope it is logical for the wiki too. To confirm this I need your feedback, because if something is off, which i dont think is, better solve the problem now than later before it becomes a soup (I hope this saying has a correspondence in English). I can explain the changes here If you dont want to check everything.

Also changed survivor stories text to randomized stories in various few articles we have. Made See Also's consistent. We currently dont have Building stories article, so there is that.

I am assuming https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Vehicle_stories, https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Zone_stories, https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Survivor_stories pages are considered complete, they dont have an mbox and struck in project page. Unless we want to expand the overviews a little bit more. I updated the project lore page so check it out.

Other than that, once the building stories meta page is complete, just the same as other 4, I think nothing is keeping editors from freely creating the stories under respective sections.

@serene sage, your thoughts are very important on these changes as you are the leader of Randomized stories.

Here is the main category for Randomized stories subproject: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Randomized_stories

[serene sage]

@robust latch everything looks fine, thanks for your work on organizing the categories and whatnot 👍

I do have to say though

you kinda overwrote the building stories page so now all the stuff in it's gone

[robust latch]

No, they are in survivor stories, because they were survivor stories to begin with

[serene sage]

oh right my bad

then everything's fine

nice work

[robust latch]

Excellent work on your behalf bruv. Are you planning to split table stories or keep it as is?

I think keeping it intact is fine because knitting needles&yarn on a table doesnt warrant an entire article imo

I am noob at this section tho so

Who knows

[serene sage]

yeah the table stories are really insignificant so they'll be confined to their main article

I don't think anyone wants to read an article about some bread on a table

[robust latch]

Ok then this is redundant: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Table_stories

[serene sage]

true

you can mark it for deletion then

[robust latch]

Yep

[serene sage]

well since there's no more issues with the categories I will now fill in all the individual story articles

the main page for the table stories is not done yet but it's too annoying to deal with right now

[robust latch]

You are the captain, do whatever ya want

[serene sage]

I know, just letting people know I don't have anymore concerns with how things are going

[sleek elk]

Yo dawg, we heard you liked Table stories

Yeah the category makes sense if every possible table story were to have its own article but at least at present one still pretty small article calling out all the stories is probably sufficient.

[robust latch]

Y-yes.

[robust latch]

That seems to be the joint resolution

[sleek elk]

I was doing boomer memes don't mind me

https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/xzibit-yo-dawg

[serene sage]

I still sound like a psychopath

[proud cobalt]

In tilezed the sign is called Wok & Rolls Sign

[digital helm]

@robust latch @serene sage the item-columns are being used wrong on the story pages #pzwiki_editing message
You only need to include the div once, which wraps all the bullet points, rather than a new div every 3 bullet points.
See the Knox country page for an in article example.

I can fix later, unless you'd rather do it

Re #pzwiki_editing message

[serene sage]

I see

I'll fix that then

[serene sage]

it's fixed now

[digital helm]

Survivor stories looking good btw

[serene sage]

finally, I finished all the articles for the survivor stories (what we used to call building stories)

gonna need to check them over tomorrow but they're done at least

[lucid junco]

I'd fallen sick after saying that I take a break from logos.
Seems that my body refuses to leave them unfinished/j

[lucid junco]

Thank god for redirects

Although I can search it fine after moving it?

[lucid junco]

As I said, thank god for redirects

"I love Wok and Rolls" fits better: 1) since ad transcript says "love"
2)Since its a reference to the "I love Rocky Roads" song, "love" would fit better.
3)||Anything is fucking better than just Wok n Rolls||

We always can put: "I heart Wok n Rolls", "I *heart* Wok n Rolls", "Wok n Rolls" as redirects

[pallid cave]

Is it really a reference to the song? I thought it just referred to rock and roll

[proud cobalt]

It's definitely a reference to this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9jhDwxt22Y

Incredibly popular song

[digital helm]

no doubt in my mind that it's a reference to this

[lucid junco]

Wait

Weird Al "I Love Rocky Road" is a homage itself?

https://youtu.be/beTsDOBRs8I?si=zr1B71GNiK_zW3af

[proud cobalt]

Its a parody song yeah

[digital helm]

It's weird al, of course it's a parody of another song 😄

[proud cobalt]

Wiki has an api rate limit of 18 seconds right now

[lucid junco]

[languid kayak]

yeah, but signs used to have wrong names in the past, plus there's also https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Jolly_Good_Sign (not Jolly Good Fish and Chios sign), so might be just simplification

[proud cobalt]

I agree likely a simplification, but thats all the input i have lol

[digital helm]

Are these the names they're uploaded as? the straight logos. And have they been given a category? If not, may be a good bot task, so long as these are the names

[languid kayak]

I did fix some in the past:
https://github.com/TheIndieStone/ProjectZomboidTranslations/pull/362
https://github.com/TheIndieStone/ProjectZomboidTranslations/pull/394
https://github.com/TheIndieStone/ProjectZomboidTranslations/pull/444

[proud cobalt]

Bots cant upload but could categorize

[digital helm]

yeah, that's what I mean. Will just need the list of files

[lucid junco]

Some of them use "and" instead of "&"

[proud cobalt]

My tile uploads also have to be categorised

[lucid junco]

They are written without spaces, apart from "Los Fartos de Mademoiselle Geline"(Its called correctly as a file, but It sounds funnier this way), cause I aint typing this shit out manually at 12 am

Some have only the name, (Milk n more instead of MilkNMoreGroceriesLotteryTickets)

[languid kayak]

That too, yeah. Might be wise. I'll take care of them, unless someone was faster 😛

[lucid junco]

(TripleN, instead of "3NNewsNowNetwork" )

[languid kayak]

oh yeah, the TripleN is inconsistent too, not sure it's something you're interested in feedback too @thin cloud? Can't check on that PC (for the sake of it, I should install PZ just for the sake of checking the files), but I believe it's, other than not being called TripleN officially on the signs/adverts, it's both "TripleN" and "Triple-N", might be mistaken though.

[digital helm]

btw @proud cobalt @lucid junco using msupload (uploading when editing a page) you can automatically add the category if done through the category page. E.g. dragging all the files here https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Category:Logos&action=edit then clicking upload, will add them to that category. This is incredibly helpful for a large number of files.

[languid kayak]

brw, should it be I love Wok and Rolls or I Love Wok and Rolls? https://pzwiki.net/wiki/I_love_Wok_and_Rolls

[lucid junco]

"love" is taken from the advert

[proud cobalt]

Oh interesting

[digital helm]

that makes me think the name is Wok and Rolls then 🤔

either way, it's fine as is 😄

[proud cobalt]

I believe ElectronicsScrap is from module base in newitems could someone double check im not looking at the wrong thing?

https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Electronics&curid=11435&diff=367107&oldid=309283

[lucid junco]

Logos archive is a bit less cleaner, I had put two faced signs in one file;different styles(some logos have differently looking signs, be it clearness or others) and spraypainted logos are ether called "SecureStorageSpraypainted", "SeahorseCoffee1" or are only present within tilesheets

Thats why I said "Id only use tilesheets"

[digital helm]

yes, you're right

[proud cobalt]

Ty will fix

[digital helm]

electricwire is radio though

[lucid junco]

Sign says "I heart Wok n Rolls"

"Come visit 'I heart Wok and Rolls' today!" - Advert

[digital helm]

yeah, looking at the ad, I'd say it's WITH the heart officially. Just the jingle is with love.

for wiki nav I love Wok and Rolls will do.

[lucid junco]

We shouldnt overthink it

[proud cobalt]

Polls are banned

[digital helm]

at least you didn't get timed out this time

[proud cobalt]

This time

I didnt use markdown

Ill do it the old way

[digital helm]

with reactions?

we can pin it

[proud cobalt]

Yeah

[lucid junco]

In any way, so far, its the only one that can be interpreted in conflicting ways

[proud cobalt]

What is this business called
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/I_love_Wok_and_Rolls
1️⃣ I ❤️ Wok and Rolls
2️⃣ I ❤️ Wok & Rolls
3️⃣ I Love Wok and Rolls
4️⃣ I Love Wok & Rolls
5️⃣ Other

Thoughts on a wiki editor ping?

[digital helm]

oh that's the poll 😂

[lucid junco]

Poll of the century

Entire wiki is crumbling untill its done

[proud cobalt]

This has gone on for months

For the record my vote is for 2. this line sells it for me.
Come visit 'I *heart* Wok and Rolls' today

[lucid junco]

We will still have to put every combination into redirects anyway

[digital helm]

you mean number 1 then ?

[proud cobalt]

No

[digital helm]

[proud cobalt]

You cant say ampersand to mean and but you can say *heart* to mean ❤️

[digital helm]

they're all correct 🙃

[digital helm]

If ❤️ wins, what do we call the page?

[proud cobalt]

Can we have unicode in page titles?

Unicode Character “♥” (U+2665)

[digital helm]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/❤️

[proud cobalt]

Yes we can

[digital helm]

I think it might be better to use displaytitle here though...

[proud cobalt]

The fact that the name of the business is in quotes in the ad i think removes 3,4 and 5

[languid kayak]

That might actually be part of my reasoning 😄

[languid kayak]

yeah, sadly they are 😦 I tired making one back then too

[proud cobalt]

Any more pages i should run the bot on to make redirects for sentence case searching?

[languid kayak]

I think some tiles still need to be manually moved? I hand-searched for them. Also some tiles can be overriden by the fixes in https://github.com/TheIndieStone/ProjectZomboidTranslations/blob/master/EN/Moveables_EN.txt

[digital helm]

what ones have you done?

[proud cobalt]

Item IDs, Item titles, and now autogenerated tile pages. Could do locations?

[digital helm]

yeah, I was thinking locations

[digital helm]

@proud cobalt can you please add the associated category to these images? Remove existing category if it's Category:Item_images otherwise should be good to leave it
Category will be above each group of files.

I'll add to bot tasks

[proud cobalt]

Sounds easy enough

[digital helm]

hold off on the clothing icons, seems a lot are already categorised

clothing and accessory

[proud cobalt]

I can have the bot skip the pages

Just add it to bot tasks with what needs to actually be done and ill get started after redirects

[digital helm]

will be task 4

[lucid junco]

Cold cant stop me from editing the wiki

Im kidding, aint that mad to sit in front of my pc for 5 hours straight as always

[robust latch]

Get well bruv

[lucid junco]

But Ill upload straightened logos Ive completed yesterday

@digital helm Citizen looks like something for see through tbh(I dont remember who pushed is as a default)

Trying to manually update logos takes longer with it

[proud cobalt]

Switch back to the old skin while you upload if its easier

[digital helm]

not sure what you mean 🤔

[languid kayak]

(but yeah, jokes aside, get well! Thoughat least that can keep you occupied, though get a lot of rest when needed :P)

[digital helm]

not even once

[lucid junco]

Sugar is my side addiction

Pz wiki my main one

[lucid junco]

Eg, more mouse movements and keypresses to get where I want to

[proud cobalt]

Click / for search shortcut

[lucid junco]

Is there a shortcut for "Upload a file"?

Having it in a sidebar is more convenient when creating the gallery

[digital helm]

alt shift u

best if you upload through the category page though

thinkdock spent a lot of time categorising the logos

[proud cobalt]

Do they not stay categorised when uploading a new vesion of a file?

[digital helm]

they do

Uploading a new version of an existing file is preferred

@proud cobalt you can run reports too, right? As in return a list of files ending with Model and add Category:Item models

[proud cobalt]

Yeah should be able to

[digital helm]

I'll add that too then

Trying to sort this out https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:UncategorizedFiles

[proud cobalt]

I need to do the tile images

[digital helm]

yeah, I'm trying to ignore them 😄 but there's so many

[proud cobalt]

Ill try get to them tonight, will just be lots of copy paste

[digital helm]

would you want to keep it simple and categorise similar to how they're named?

[proud cobalt]

Tbh id be happy with 'Tile images'

[digital helm]

me too

[proud cobalt]

Api rate limit is 35 seconds right now

This might have to wait

[digital helm]

yeah... that is absurd

[languid kayak]

We actually did talk about it with Vail, I got a similar impression; not sure why the search bar defaults to creation of a page? Keep in mind the new skin will get updates, so some things will change, see https://starcitizen.tools/ for the bleeding edge version of it live

Feel free to report issues directly too for that matter, we got one with page not being available on revision and it got a fix we'll get eventualy 🤞too

https://github.com/StarCitizenTools/mediawiki-skins-Citizen/commit/996947993859a8ddac6943904eb9693851085624

And yeah, I did started utilizing keypresses more 😄

[languid kayak]

I'd say let's stick {{Archive}} to everything we're not sure whether to keep, then we can get a second through, that or {{Delete}} so we can takea look, at least they are categorized this way.

I do want to get back to Spiffo one day too, but I just can't focus enough of doing something instead of just helping with the current focus 😄

[digital helm]

oh nice, they fixed that

[digital helm]

yeah, I plan to get there. But want to get the bulk ones moved first

[languid kayak]

yeah, just realized now too 😄

[digital helm]

I was thinking with the spiffo page, to move the community images onto a dedicated page. It'll eventually slow down the page considerably if we want to included every community spiffo (there' so many now)

and while at it, remove the custom width/height for the gallery

[languid kayak]

The community ones are more like, we're not straight up removing them, but there were more since eveyrone can make one 😛

Like the medal in https://projectzomboid.com/blog/news/2024/05/cotd-18-bangers-keys-n-ducks/

[digital helm]

the idea is nice, I'm just concerned about slowing down the page. Could include a few then just link to where more are

That medal one was pretty sick too 👌

[languid kayak]

I should probably post my keychain too 😛 That or make more out of scrap materials, but I'm lazy.

I think I didn't post it here IIRC

[digital helm]

you didn't. They were cool too

[proud cobalt]

This probably shouldnt exist right?
https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=File:AerosolBombTimer_Model.png&redirect=no

[proud cobalt]

All files that are models should be in item models too right? Regardless of whether they are in another cat already

[digital helm]

yeah, just chuck em in there

[proud cobalt]

Sick makes the bot a million times simpler

[digital helm]

removed

There are quite a few images with redirects. A lot of them for ease of use

[digital helm]

If things can be done an easier way, I'm happy to do it. I'll usually say what would be ideal

[proud cobalt]

Ahh ok, theres quite alot the bot is running into. I have it set to skip them now. Should i get a list of them?

[digital helm]

A list wouldn't hurt

[proud cobalt]

Most things are doable and im happy to do it, but they're all model images anyway so makes sense for me to have them all go into the cat

[digital helm]

I created that category today, purely as a dumping place anyway

[proud cobalt]

Ok my tile images should be categorised now

And the models are going will go overnight

Gonna archive files like this, i dont know where theyre from and theyre not used, @languid kayak

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:CarIgnition.png

[digital helm]

they were added during the vehicles build. Never ended up getting used

yet

[proud cobalt]

Good to keep archived than

[lucid junco]

Maybe its just me, trying to use new one like an old one and getting bad results, therefore complaining about it. Sometimes its hard do differentiate when its a personal habit problem, or an actual issue that should be addressed

But I do agree, it looks slick on mobile

No need to zoom in and out, trying to press what you want to. Its neatly packed, the drop down menu is better for mobile users, since there isn't that much screen room in an average phone.

[digital helm]

This would be the reason they've done it the way they have imo

The improvements on mobile significantly outweigh the drawbacks on desktop

[lucid junco]

Isnt there a way to detect when its a desktop user and mobile user?

[serene sage]

the vehicle stories are done, man was it painful

[digital helm]

There are, but the way they've done it is so you don't need the extra hassle. Doesn't need all the back-end work other than enabling it. It seems to mostly use the css media query, to detect screen size

[digital helm]

you did the job we couldn't

the hockey psycho one took me long enough 😄

[serene sage]

I did so many of these articles I somehow found a way to “speed it up”

I feel carpel tunnel setting in

it was worth it

the PZWiki is indeed like crack

[lucid junco]

Aight, at least we have an option to switch it back if you want to

[proud cobalt]

https://tenor.com/view/breaking-bad-jesse-pinkman-sad-jesse-pinkman-sad-breaking-bad-jesse-pinkman-sad-gif-24555445

[digital helm]

just note the vector-22 skin will revert to the default theme (light). Wikimedia will be releasing updates which'll break a lot of the changes we've made. So we won't be supporting those changes anymore, returning it to default

[serene sage]

meirl

[languid kayak]

The one I have with me, slighlty different from the original (material)

Spiffo got confused as a red panda twice though 😄

But one friend instantly recognized it

They aren't as durable though

[proud cobalt]

Thats awesome

I love my steadfast spiffo

[lucid junco]

Its a Nurse youtuber reference, duh/j

Being honest, each one of them looks like a reference

[serene sage]

nooo my childhood innocence

why

[lucid junco]

The burying event is for me too random to not be a reference to something

Where there are a bunch of graves with one(?) still open and a cross behind them all

[serene sage]

I mean they could be references but they’d be pretty generic ones tbh

except for that piece of Nurse slander

[lucid junco]

I mean, yeah, a lot of horror movies had a scene like this

1990th "It" comes to my mind, but Im sure it isn't the only one that has it

Maybe its a general "Horror movies" reference, rather than a specific one

[serene sage]

mm hmm

[lucid junco]

Searching "Ambulance Sexy Time" came up with.. A bit expect results

I dont think that's the one we are looking for

[serene sage]

nice stain on your search history

[serene sage]

sad

[lucid junco]

Unless its a reference to.. One of the devs tastes/j

[serene sage]

I feel like the devs have gone a more interesting route for these stories

check out the article on “student night” I wrote yesterday

thought it was like a study group but nope

[proud cobalt]

Ok i categorised a whole bunch of screenshots and ui images. Bed time

[lucid junco]

It might sound stupid, but what if we use this sign to name the Unnamed Motel in Central L

Its only second one that exists in the game, first one being Muldraugh Sunstar Motel

[serene sage]

ah yes, the "vacancy motel"

very nice place

[lucid junco]

What, isnt the most stupid name out there

[serene sage]

don't go to the hidden backroom though

[serene sage]

I guess so

[lucid junco]

Although if in b42, any other unnamed motel uses it - we will have to rename it back

[serene sage]

I think it’s fine

[lucid junco]

Tanglewood (Or abandoned town in the Riverside outskirts) isnt the only place where "Tanglewood" graffiti is present

[serene sage]

b42 won’t come until 2093

[serene sage]

Tanglewood is a much better name than “vacancy”

I’d say its fine though

[lucid junco]

Fair point

But I hate unnamed things

Gas stations and convenience stores bug me to this day

[serene sage]

“convenience store article flashbacks”

[lucid junco]

General stores will drive me mad even more

Almost all of them are copies of one another, which can imply that they are from the same chain

Yet none, not even a single one has a logo or a sign

Making them one of the biggest unnamed chains

[serene sage]

sounds rough

welp time to deal with the zone stories now

if I don't return well then that's that

[lucid junco]

Its a bit lower tier than just naming them as is

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/General_Store

[serene sage]

they're not wrong

[lucid junco]

General Store, is called a General Store

[serene sage]

it's a "general" store

[lucid junco]

Snacks and Restrooms stalls are called Snacks and Restrooms

[lucid junco]

You will never guess how bakery is called

[serene sage]

"Bakery?"

[lucid junco]

Indeed

[serene sage]

wow

the game has cool stuff like "The Grand Ohio Mall" and "Louisville Expo Center"

then we have these immersion breaking stuff

WAIT

I categorized all the vehicle stories wrong

welp time to fix those articles first

[lucid junco]

Moment

[serene sage]

whew

that was close

[serene sage]

the amount of work to list one zone story's loot drops

[languid kayak]

good habit 😄

But yeah, the sign there is a beneric one and new ones were teased, I really hope they will be customizable though

[languid kayak]

What does RMS means btw?

[languid kayak]

No, it's a general store called General Store 😉

[serene sage]

what gun uses the "varmint rifle" icon? found it specified in the game code but no idea what gun it's refering to, and no English article on the wiki uses it

[languid kayak]

see https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Item_list
| [[File:LeverActionRifle.png]] || [[MSR700 Rifle]] || {{ID|Base.VarmintRifle}}

[serene sage]

I see, thanks

it seems to be the one gun that I never touch

[lucid junco]

You're telling me

I read it as ATMS at first and was like, "Oh yeah, its definitely a western country, when something that should be free costs 55$"

Its either a misspelled RMC

Or PMS?

Google really isn't helpful rn

[serene sage]

Room Service?

[lucid junco]

[serene sage]

ikr

who knew

[lucid junco]

We can actually calculate the inflation within the usa in game

[serene sage]

hmm

ok I think I got it

[lucid junco]

So, we can use current estimates on how much RSM costs

Any year can be selected, then the average prices converted into how much they were worth in 1990

Would it be accurate? Idk

Then we subtract this value from 55$

That would be pre Knox event

To calculate how much it would worth (I dont know at which point, probably before world collapse), we seek out inflation in countries during the disasters

And we get our answer

[serene sage]

the average inflation irl would be 1.75% a year

so an average motel would cost $75 from $40 in 1990

in game a $55 motel would be $96 in an isometric 2024

[lucid junco]

RMS or just rooms?

[serene sage]

RMS

though actually

I might have not taken rms in 1990

I'll be back

ok scrap that can't search up RMS on google

there's too many identical acronyms

[lucid junco]

Room Service

[serene sage]

right

alright so it comes down to a 1.70% inflation rate

so irl it's $59 to $100

in-game its $55 to $93

so yeah stuff is cheaper in game

[lucid junco]

[serene sage]

no wonder why so many people in Kentucky have like no money at all

all the more reason to live in the world of Project Zomboid

[lucid junco]

But hey

Thats just a theory

[serene sage]

a game theory?

[lucid junco]

A GAME THEORY

[serene sage]

ah yes

sharpgolden

the new matpat

[lucid junco]

What

[serene sage]

damn gonna have to explain the joke

isn't the game theory guy called matpat?

[lucid junco]

Oooh, I get it 😄

[serene sage]

yeah there we go

[lucid junco]

Ill now drop a new vid about pz game theory

Right after learning how to montage

[serene sage]

didn't get the title right but you get the idea

fixed

[serene sage]

zone stories are done

I wonder what's next-

[languid kayak]

What about the 49 cents / 99 cents sign 😄

[languid kayak]

Moved it to https://pzwiki.net/wiki/I_❤️_Wok_%26_Rolls will update the links soon™ and hopefully let the redirects and SEO do its job 🤞

[digital helm]

RMS is just short for "rooms". To fit on the sign

Air conditioned, TV rooms for $55

That's how I always read it at least

[serene sage]

I found a way to spawn the table stories in

was right under our noses

I just looked through the menu used to spawn in the house stories and found something called "RBBASIC"

apparently that thing spawns a random table story somewhere in the house

it's all random chance

but still better than just noclipping everywhere until you find it

take a look:

now the table stories will no longer be those stubborn little things that's preventing me from finishing this subproject

[digital helm]

Good to know

Did you figure out the profession ones?

[serene sage]

you mean the ones that say "carpenter" or "nurse"?

[digital helm]

Yeah

When I tried them they didn't seem to do anything

[serene sage]

I'll try them

[digital helm]

From memory the spawn conditions in the java file weren't clear either

[serene sage]

@digital helm it seems to affect the type of loot you can find in closets and stuff

take this closet in West Point

clicking on "Carpenter" gives us carpentry-themed loot

clicking on Nurse gives use medical supplies

then farmer would give us farming stuff

and electrician will give us electrical stuff

it also doesn't apply to only closets: a select few other containers will be affected as well

[digital helm]

Thanks! I've updated my notes. The loot distributions should be correct, see the links in this section https://pzwiki.net/wiki/User:Vaileasys/sandbox#Specific_Profession

Seems to be containers with crate and metal_shelves

[serene sage]

how large is the loot distribution article? It loads forever while the rest of the wiki loads instantly

either that or the article can’t load on mobile

[proud cobalt]

Which article

[serene sage]

this one: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Room_definitions_and_item_spawns

[proud cobalt]

It is loading exceptionally slow @digital helm

[digital helm]

This page is much slower than the average. But the average has increased a bit since changing skins. Unsure if just a coincidence. I'll monitor over the next couple of days. I think this page needs to be changed anyway, so it's not so long, just unsure how to split it.

Items and tiles pages should also be changed to at least a temporary fix

I'll look at these pages tonight. At work currently

[proud cobalt]

@digital helm Both of those bot tasks should be done now

[lucid junco]

Hooray

🎉

[serene sage]

🎉

[proud cobalt]

These pages need to be categorised by an admin
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Quick_links_Tiles.png
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Quick_links_Vehicles.png
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Quick_links_Modding.png
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Quick_links_Locations.png
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Quick_links_Items.png
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Quick_links_Crafting.png

And these
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Logo_YouTube_25px.png
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Logo_X_25px.png
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Logo_Twitch_25px.png
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Logo_Steam_32px.png
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Logo_Reddit_25px.png
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Logo_Discord_25px.png
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Logo_Facebook_25px.png
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Logo_Humble_32px.png
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Logo_GOG_32px.png

[digital helm]

Will do

[proud cobalt]

These are the file redirects

[lucid junco]

Where are they?

[lucid junco]

Its a lie

There are no tvs

Nor any A/C

[languid kayak]

in various places, but the one I remember is Muldraugh's Greene's https://map.projectzomboid.com/#10607x10260x22069

One side is 49 cents and when rotated it's 99 cents, though hard to say what it refers to 😛

[lucid junco]

There is also 5 bux or less

But we dont know what is 5 bucks and what is (and how much) less

[lucid junco]

Oh my fucking god

[lucid junco]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Grocery_store
Page Created

@languid kayak @naive imp What do you think about creating a Stalls page?

They will have mainly Grocery stalls, Chain stalls(Pizza whirled, Burgers), stalls within summer fair and others

Not sure about restrooms, they have almost nothing apart from wa'er and trash

[digital helm]

the grocery ones would especially be helpful for loot distro. I think the chain stalls would be fine on their chain page

[digital helm]

Here's a list of the redirect files that need to be replaced.
There's more in bot tasks that I still need to add the replacements for, if you want to wait for them

[lucid junco]

Summer fair and Music festival ones will also be in their own, separate pages?

[digital helm]

Like these? https://map.projectzomboid.com/#13745x1893x2181
I think they'd probably be fine with a mention on the locations page

[lucid junco]

And these
https://map.projectzomboid.com/#13678x3591x6632

[digital helm]

probably the same. Mentioned on whatever the location's page is. But I'd also mention the stalls on a grocery stall/farmer's market page

[lucid junco]

How are these called?

I cant find them on wiki

[digital helm]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Metal_Drum

The page needs some improvement - I was planning on it a couple of months ago, but never got around to it 😄

[restive adder]

https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/1117719433/ you need one of these

[digital helm]

I'd need a hundred of them!

[robust latch]

@naive imp is this enough or not -> https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Liquor_store

[lucid junco]

Separate Overview into Loot and Overview

Add in unnamed ones

[robust latch]

I dont think that is the way to go

[lucid junco]

Thats literally how every other page is written

Mainly https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Self_storage

Which Think dock gave me as a reference

[robust latch]

It is a meta page

[lucid junco]

Wdym

[robust latch]

In the main page under locations and under businesses, there are all-encompassing meta pages

Like this https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Laundromat

Or like gas stations

[lucid junco]

No, I mean what difference does this make whether its a meta or not

[digital helm]

Because the line between a meta page or business can be blurry, I'd suggest keeping it consistent between the 2. E.g. https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Fire_department is this a meta page or a business page? Because we also have this https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Louisville_Fire_Department

To me, loot is the most important info on a building page for the reader, and should be easy for them to find

[languid kayak]

There are some meta pages like that, I just updated the main page with the grocery store, so I guess the same could follow for other business types?

[lucid junco]

This whole system sounds a bit convoluted and confusing

[languid kayak]

There's also https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Corn_maze (named after PZ map), though I'm not sure the name's correct?

[lucid junco]

I was referring to this as a "Summer fair"

I dont know why Corn Maze and Summer Fair is separated

[digital helm]

I'm not even sure it's corn

maybe it is 🤔

[languid kayak]

Fire department would be a meta and the second not, but yeah, maybe a new boilerplate for meta location?

[lucid junco]

More like a dead one

[digital helm]

I don't think there's any need. Just keep them the same. They look the same to me

[digital helm]

I see this more of a fair. If there's only the corn maze page, I'd change it, and just have the corn maze as part of the fair page

[lucid junco]

Its like separating Music festival Stage, and music festival itself

[digital helm]

exactly

or playground at the park

[lucid junco]

I think we just need to standardize it a bit

So that we wont need to wait for everyone to agree that everything is good / bad each time

[serene sage]

In RBTableStory.class (which defines how table stories spawn) I found this code block that could be a definition for a table story, but I'm not sure if it's just something used for testing or if it's actually a table story that can spawn. Would try to spawn it in but can't boot the game up at the moment

also how does this translate to a percentage chance? Tried looking up what Rand.next() did but that didn't help at all

[lucid junco]

Generate number between 0-100 and compare if its less than 70?

[serene sage]

probably

[digital helm]

it's 70% chance

[serene sage]

really?

so it includes 0

so it's not 69%

not nice

[digital helm]

Rand.Next(100) is 0-99
< 70 is numbers from 0-69

[serene sage]

right

ok

well then

[digital helm]

I think you're right. I don't think this does spawn 🤔 seems it's just there to initialise it. And I can't get it to spawn those items

[serene sage]

in a different file I found if(Rand.Next(70) < 100) which makes no sense if we interpreted the previous condition correctly

it would be a 100% chance

which makes no sense since why write the condition in the first place

if its 100% going to spawn everytime

[digital helm]

weird. That'd always be true

[serene sage]

might be a mistake by a dev

[digital helm]

possibly

Unless they were balancing and found that 100% was best, so left it and moved on - keeping the code format

[serene sage]

alright

rip cake story

[serene sage]

probably

[lucid junco]

Only devs can tell wtf does the code does

[naive imp]

I think it'd be best to just put them with their respective chains. Maybe create an article for all the Unnamed ones

[naive imp]

Page seems OK, not quite sure what you're asking tbh

[robust latch]

I will remove Improve tag thats all if its good

[naive imp]

Ohhh that's what you mean. Yeah I don't think it's needed at this point

[lucid junco]

Shouldnt stores include loot section?

And unnamed stores

[digital helm]

Thoughts on this format as a replacement for the items page? https://pzwiki.net/wiki/User:Vaileasys/sandbox_3 (header, nav and all the text would be added) @proud cobalt @languid kayak
Replacing the tables, all the stats and icons, with just a link to the item. Users will still be able to search the page for a specific item. The nav buttons will still be there too.

This is because load times are way too long for a lot of users.
These images are a direct comparison of the same amount of sections/items.

this would be the same for the tiles page

[lucid junco]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Summer_fair @digital helm

[digital helm]

beautiful. Much better

[lucid junco]

Is this LBMW mobile trailer mentioned anywhere?

I think its the one where Jackie takes her interviews?

[digital helm]

indirectly. Jackie was there

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/LBMW_-_Kentucky_Radio#timestamp_7560

[lucid junco]

Shouldnt it go to the Locations?

[digital helm]

it's in businesses

it's more media/lore than location imo

since it's not just about that location

[lucid junco]

Military blockade also isnt on the wiki?

Apart from side mentions

[naive imp]

With locations that aren't part of a chain and thus don't use the locations table, the loot goes in the interior section.

If there is more than one location (the location table is used) then loot goes into the loot section.

[digital helm]

the border camp? https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Louisville_border_camp

[lucid junco]

Border camp, right

Its does not include other, smaller checkpoints.. nor military homes

[digital helm]

would be nice if eventually the map had a link to the wiki page for a location

[digital helm]

how do you determine a military home though?

[lucid junco]

Its within border

Or is... heavily militarized

[digital helm]

I consider them just being occupied by the military - one is being used as a field hospital

storage etc.

Maybe I'm getting into semantics here 🤔

[lucid junco]

I aint asking is it a military house,where military lives, or they just use them, Im saying that they are nowhere in the wiki

Houses, along with these areas are left out, while having valuable loot in em.

[digital helm]

I'm sure it was discussed at some point, about creating a page for it, or the border/blockade itself - I'm unsure what happend with that

[lucid junco]

What Im saying is, we can create either one single area, since technically they share the border, like Camp Busy Beaver, DeerHead Ranger.

"Military blockade" page

[digital helm]

Those 2 smaller blockades could use a page imo. But couldn't the tower area be included in the burnt village page?

[lucid junco]

I did put it there

[lucid junco]

Checkpoints*

Blocade is the whole area:
Main checkpoint
Smaller ones
Burnt town
Military homes

[digital helm]

a page for the entire border would be good. It's referred a couple of times as the "Event border" or "Knox Event border"

[digital helm]

yeah, I meant checkpoints

[lucid junco]

Border, exclusion border, Event border, border-line - LBMW Radio
Border, Knox Event border - WBLN
Event border, Exclusion border - Civilian Radio
The border - NNR radio
the border - KnoxTalk
the border, Knox Event border, Knox border, Exclusion Zone border- Triple N

military blockade - LBMW
military blockade - NNR
the blockade -KnoxTalk

[digital helm]

I think "Exclusion Zone border" would be the way to go - since the area being fenced off is the Exclusion Zone

[lucid junco]

And all others into redirect, right?

[lucid junco]

@languid kayak @naive imp what do you think?

Maybe something like a mix of both Camp Busy beaver page and general area page? (Having small descriptions of poi, and having a link for their own page if they are big enough)

[naive imp]

I say we rename the Louisville border camp page to "Louisville Border" and describe everything you want to.

I'd say for this though you might want to test it out in a sandbox subpage if your username first before making it public.

You can do that by creating a page titled "User:Sharpgolden/sandbox"

[serene sage]

is there an icon for the mug beverage that's not animated? I can only find this on the wiki: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:MugFullAnim.gif

[robust latch]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:MugFulll.png

[serene sage]

wait is that three Ls?

MugFulll.png

[robust latch]

Yesss

[serene sage]

weird

ok so there's the first table story done

[robust latch]

yay

[serene sage]

well except for the image because spawning the stories in are really annoying

the game spawned in this much stuff before the breakfast story spawned

[robust latch]

Seems like an everyday base to me

[serene sage]

truee

[lucid junco]

(Fucking gimp, why cant i properly stroke the path )

Something like this?

It includes every border camp, burnt areas, and checkpoints

[serene sage]

these blatant breaks in the naming convention of images is really bugging me

cereal is "Cereal.png"

Coffee is "Coffee.png"

salad is this abomination

[lucid junco]

@languid kayak will it be a poi, or location?

@naive imphttps://pzwiki.net/wiki/User:Sharpgolden/sandbox

Maybe add in a "Lore" Category?

[lucid junco]

Done

[lucid junco]

Where did you put TableStory?

[serene sage]

what are you referring to, the things that spawned in game or the article?

[lucid junco]

RBTableStory

[serene sage]

the file? sorry still can't understand which "tablestory" you're referring to

[lucid junco]

How could you

[lucid junco]

The bottom one

Its so obvious

[serene sage]

oh that one

right

it seems to be the default base

for all the table stories

it does have some item definitions but it never is spawned in-game

[lucid junco]

I feel like 90% of table stories are also never spawned in game

[serene sage]

probably

I have seen most of them in normal gameplay though

[lucid junco]

Their condition to spawn is really delicate

And they can be easily confused with RBBasic(If I remember correctly)

[serene sage]

yeah

RBBasic just seems to be everything wrapped into one "story"

it is also the most annoying table story I have come across

[lucid junco]

It technically isnt a table story

Since it spawns items separately

[serene sage]

yeah

I'm still counting it though since they're kinda like table stories

problem is

there are a lot of items it can spawn

I have to list each one for the sake of not leaving out details

[lucid junco]

Do not try to calculate chances for each one

https://tenor.com/view/1984-gif-19260546

[serene sage]

oh shi-

-there are chances?

[lucid junco]

I mean

If there were no chances, each room would have something in it from RBBasic

Since they dont, that means somewhere chances are calculated

[serene sage]

I think my brain is fried enough from today's work

[lucid junco]

Understandable

[serene sage]

at least Ksilem gave me an award

[lucid junco]

"An Award for doing the shit we weren't decisive enough to do"

Or "for doing something mad, we were too sane to do"

Ive got this award too

[robust latch]

Should I change these Occupation#Park Ranger old links to "Occupation" or "Park Ranger"

Park Ranger seems to be the more sensical option

[proud cobalt]

Surely we can just remove ll?

[proud cobalt]

Theres a task to fix this, we've been working on it slowly

[proud cobalt]

Park Ranger

[proud cobalt]

Removing ll usage just from clothing i got a .5 second reduction in cpu time usage

Your version is obviously faster still

I think its mainly image loading, but that seems important. Maybe we at least keep the tables but remove images?

Dropped another 0.3 seconds by removing {{lcs}}

[digital helm]

This is how the file is named, which is the naming convention for item icons.

In the game files I mean. The "Icon" parameter in scripts

[proud cobalt]

By removing ll, lcs, and icons for every image on clothing, i got the real time usage from 1.9 seconds to 0.7

[digital helm]

It wouldn't be a business, so I'd go with location.
Also instead of adding links to headings, use {{Main}}

[proud cobalt]

https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Clothing&action=edit

https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=User:Calvy/sandbox3&action=edit

[digital helm]

Seems a lot better. If it works then we go with it? My problem (and the reason for ll and lcs) is quickly updating other languages, rather than having to update each value separately

But I guess that's only a now problem, as it should be fixed with translate

[proud cobalt]

Yeah it all comes back around to languages

Its still 1 second or longer load times comparing to your sandboxes 0.2 second. I just think the tables are really good to have for a quick view of stats

[digital helm]

I know, but that page is ridiculously big, and will get a lot bigger in b42. The tables would still be there on their source pages. I was hoping {{main}} would be good enough

[proud cobalt]

Hmm in that case i think we could do that

Keep the tables on the individual pages and have the items page as a list with main, just make it clear that the tables are on the main pages

[digital helm]

Yeah, the intention was to keep the ability to just search that page for an item (had some backlash when removing it before)

[serene sage]

I'm missing like two table story images that spawn on dining tables

I've been clicking RBBASIC for three minutes straight and nothing has spawned on the table

it's spawning a lot of them in the kitchen instead

what the hell happened here

[proud cobalt]

Remove the kitchen lmao

[serene sage]

sure I'll burn it down

did it

wait

if I burn the kitchen down when I try RBBASIC the game throws an error

[proud cobalt]

Hmmm

[serene sage]

yeah so looks like RBBASIC doesn't work if the tile is nonexistent

[proud cobalt]

Does the table have to be in the kitchen roomdef?

[serene sage]

don't know

[proud cobalt]

I think it might

[serene sage]

yeah probably

oh no we got a problem

[proud cobalt]

Using a ranking algorithm to automatically redo the see also pages for tiles based on relevance, and only use existing pages. Seems to be working well. Saves me 650 manual see also edits

[digital helm]

Awesome stuff! How does it work? Is it looking at the page name and ranking similarly named page? Or is there some other magic going on

Are the arrows not displaying for anyone else? Assuming it's just my phone, but I never noticed it until now

I was planning on having a closer look at them anyway. But may need to revert to the old arrows

[proud cobalt]

Broken for me on mobile only. must not support that character

[proud cobalt]

Yeah it takes all the page names and the current one, feeds them to gpt4o which returns all the ones that are not only similarly named but similar in nature and then ranks them and swaps out the existing see also

So for pages like air conditioner we get other appliances too
https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Air_Conditioner&diff=prev&oldid=376969

[lucid junco]

https://tenor.com/view/steamed-hams-aurora-borealis-what-is-happening-fagetti-wtf-gif-16514726

[serene sage]

finally

table stories is done

after 8 hours

[lucid junco]

Yes

In some its a kitchen and living room

In others it's only single room

It also checks if table is at least two tiles wide for some of them before spawning shit

[hoary python]

Hello wiki people thanks for maintaining our community sanity

[serene sage]

wait how did the Spiffo bot get triggered?

[hoary python]

Hello

[serene sage]

was it the "hello?"

oh ok

[hoary python]

Dang you been locked in the wiki so long you don't even see people say hello

[serene sage]

truee

just spent 8 hours on one article

[lucid junco]

Howdy

[serene sage]

works for "howdy" as well

[digital helm]

Oh cool. Simplifies the logic on your end a lot then, which much better results! Assuming you've been playing with the API then 😄

We're in the future 🤖

[lucid junco]

At the start of the page?

[proud cobalt]

Yeah had $15 credit from a previous project which I was never gonna use

[digital helm]

I was talking about the header/category. What were you referring to?

[lucid junco]

I was thinking of either above the quote or near navbox

Never used it, so I am a bit confused

[digital helm]

The layout of everything is right. It's just in the header you have "businesses" but it's not a business. So just remove that and you're good. So it'd be: {{Header|Project Zomboid|World|Locations}}

[languid kayak]

That should be doable, just not sure if after or roght b42? Also should slowly start thw works of assuring aame loc coord/name are on map, I'll talk with blindcoder about the links too, maybe it's not so hard

[digital helm]

It'll be added to the category of the last item in that last. So instead of adding it to the businesses category, it'll be in the locations category

[digital helm]

Whenever blindcoder wants to do it, I imagine 😄 the poi is currently only a hover, so that'd need to be changed to be selected instead. So you can click a link. May need to do some work to what you access too, so you can define the link. Unless you could just include the link in the description?

[digital helm]

Planning to use it for more stuff? Seems like that connection with gpt is helpful for what you've been doing

[languid kayak]

yup. It is (was)? on bot taskw but might not be so easy to do

[languid kayak]

wonder if webp would load faster?

[lucid junco]

Speaking of maps, does anyone know what happened to the pz heatmap?

Site was sold when I found out about it, but it sounded like a great addition to the spawn table, since it showed probability of certain items to spawn by coloring the map

https://youtu.be/hMZUS1lg3Fo?si=tnObLTGFaHAr8cPm
There was a vid about it

[digital helm]

I didn't know it existed until now

Hopefully we could go into more detail with the loot sections eventually. Maybe a template for each roomdef, to list the items. One day..

[lucid junco]

I personally found out about it 1 year after the video was published

[proud cobalt]

Nah i just use chatgpt for writing scripts, the api is less useful than youd think

[proud cobalt]

I thought of this before, it would require each an editor to add it for each building

[lucid junco]

Done

Thanks

[digital helm]

That's the problem, it's quite a task. Maybe when we've finished everything 😄

[lucid junco]

Holy shit, my fps

Tutorial constantly plays noise around the player, that is bigget than the map

[proud cobalt]

It would also be hard to make look good i think

[lucid junco]

Nothing interesting otherwise

You cant rmb to show the menu

Aiming and fitness are modified

I cant die now :<

Oh wait, Im oob

[languid kayak]

the location images is something I guess was never standardizes? I noticed @naive imp uses short names, but maybe we should come up with some better naming scheme to make our (and potentially bots) name easier?

But yeah, the previous discusion about item icon names is something that adds a lot of confusion 😩. We are working on removing duplicate icons, so the only ones that there are 1x1 in-game name (I worked on that in the past, optimizing the PNGs, though we may change to WebP at one point) except the Icon_ prefix (was discussed briefly, but in the end we decided it might not be worth it, though technically doable if we ever change our mind).

And yeah, the images is something I'd love to get back at one point, too 🙂 (pinging @serene sage for that as it was actually Calvy's response lol)

[languid kayak]

we can make redirects for the most common naming, but that's probably best when the images are categorized and duplicates are replaced

[digital helm]

yeah, I've added redirects for typos in the past

[proud cobalt]

I never want to touch tilezed again after this

[digital helm]

ThinkDock has been doing a lot of standardising for the images the last couple of days.

Not having the Item_ is a lot better for scripts, not having to add the prefix. Renaming before uploading to remove the Item_ is simple enough too with a command or script (as we've discussed). So I don't think the effort is worth it - since it'd only be to speed up uploading

[proud cobalt]

god forsaken program

Tile IDs should be done for all pages now except signs (too many tiles per sign i dont wanna do it right now) and plants (literally cant get them without being in game)

[digital helm]

you've been doing so much! A wall of Calvy in recent changes 😄

[proud cobalt]

I've officially hit 10,000 edits (and 11,000 now)

[digital helm]

Woo! Nice job!

[proud cobalt]

I've also added tables for dropped materials when dissassebled or broken. Not sure if theyre in their final form right now but happy enough with them for the moment

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Dark_School_Bench

[serene sage]

just finished resizing all the images on the table stories article, so I'd say it's done now

next up is the building stories like survivor homes (safehouses)

after that is just some general cleanup and polish and I'm done with this sidequest

[languid kayak]

I do have triangles, unless you changed them since then?

[digital helm]

what do you mean by resizing?

[digital helm]

I've changed it back

We'll look at a better fix

[languid kayak]

That's clever, could probably be used for clothing too

[digital helm]

Looks good. I like that

[serene sage]

I screenshotted all the images weird so I had to crop them last night, then this morning I had to change the sizes of the images themselves on the page so that they were a consistent size on the page. All of them are now the same size and aspect ratio on the page apart from TablestoryButcher.png which was too small to crop and might need a reupload soon

[languid kayak]

The person responsible vanished, sadly without contact IIRC. Not sure if anyone tried to reach them? Might be a good to at least get the source code, though the hosting fees were probably outragoes

[languid kayak]

I only realized after watching video about it 😄

[digital helm]

I see, looks good. Btw, you don't need to use right if you're using thumb

[serene sage]

really? ok guess I'll remove that then

[languid kayak]

when I wnated to explore the map, I just loaded it as regular one

[serene sage]

nice to see there's been some thought into fixing the icon names; last night was pretty annoying because I had stuff like Hoodie.png and Jacket.png not returning anything. Apparently it's HoodieWhite.png and Jacket_White.png, because for some reason there needed to be an underscore for the jacket icon

[serene sage]

ok so now table stories is actually all done

[digital helm]

You can use this page as a reference https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Item_list or if you use something like sublime, you can open the scripts folder then search all txt files to find the Icon attribute for a particular item (ctrl + shift + f in sublime)

[serene sage]

yeah totally forgot that article exists

honestly though it would be nice if people could access the icons just by guessing their names like I did

[digital helm]

the image redirects is fairly new (I only noticed it recently), it used to not work unless you moved an image

[serene sage]

how do I interpret the odds of the Spiffo Mug spawning in RBSpiffo.class? Rand.NextBool() jumps straight to 30 from 3

[digital helm]

yeah, Rand.NextBool() returns true if 0

so the Mug Spiffo is really rare

[serene sage]

how do we put it as a number

I'm assuming 1 single Rand.NextBool() is a 50% chance for a true

[digital helm]

50%
33%
33%
3.33%

[serene sage]

so Rand.NextBool(2) is 33%?

[digital helm]

3 is 33%

1 in 3 chance

[serene sage]

I see

java is weird

[digital helm]

it can be confusing because 30 is actually 0 to 29 - which is 30 values

[serene sage]

I mean it's still 30

it just starts at 0

[digital helm]

yeah, but that's where it catches me out 😄

[serene sage]

wait that means some of the odds for the table stories are wrong then

dang

gonna need to edit the article again

it's fixed now

surprisingly most of it is correct

[digital helm]

@serene sage when doing the building stories, add the {{About}} template. Due to the names of them, I can see people thinking they're about the business and adding business info to it (should we add (story) to the title?)

e.g. usage {{About|the loot spawning event|the business|Pizza Whirled}}
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Pizza_Whirled_Restaurant

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:About#Examples

I've added it to the ones you've already done

[serene sage]

I think adding (story) is a good idea, as well as the About template. I’ll use them in the other articles from now on then

[languid kayak]

yeah, I keep on removing them when I see them 😄

[serene sage]

Should most of the building stories should just be part of the main building stories article like how the table stories article works? Of course stuff like Safehouse and Burnt might warrant their own article, but I would be hard pressed into thinking that stuff like Clinic deserve their own article

take a look at how short it is: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Clinic_(story)

everything in there is all we can really say about the story since it's basically just a glorified table story

[naive imp]

I was actually just working in that, renaming files and such. That's why you'll see all those file redirects marked for deletion.

The exterior photos are the name of the business, exactly on the title. Then it's "x business" interior for interior pics. If there's multiple floors, it's "x business" floor 1 2 3 so on

@serene sage @proud cobalt

[serene sage]

nice

the item icons really are something though

probably gonna add it to my to do list once I figure out how bots on the wiki work

[robust latch]

Yes they should simply be a part of building stories category.

Oh you mean like not creating an article for each and every building story?

[serene sage]

yeah

a lot of them are going to have pretty short articles

[robust latch]

Sure whatever article you deem too short can go into building stories, similar to table stories, worst case scenerio if a way to healthily expand those pages is found we can just move the section to the new article.

I am assuming you mainly refer stories between School and Clinic, including both. Also the Proffessions?

[proud cobalt]

This is the only known working bot on the wiki currently. It also requires a workaround as it cant bypass the cloudflare protection
https://pypi.org/project/pywikibot/

[serene sage]

yeah basically

[serene sage]

what’s the workaround? is it just preventing the bot from making too many requests in a short amount of time? I’ve done some api work and that seems to be what people usually do

[proud cobalt]

No the api is blocked by cloud flare entirely. Kirrus has to allow your user agent to bypass it

[restive adder]

I'm not around for a while, but if you register a bot user, get vailesys or faalagorn to give it bot group and log it on the bots page, and then DM me when you're ready, I can get a user agent sorted for you to stop cloudflare from blocking you. Unfortunately we need cloudflare because people like trying to ddos the sites once every few years

[digital helm]

Take a read through this https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Bots

[proud cobalt]

In addition to this, the API rate limit seems to be automatic, never drops below 6 seconds, and often sits around 10 seconds regardless of on or off peak time

[digital helm]

Only PZwiki:Bureaucrats can add/remove user groups, which is just you. Unless you want to add the userrights user right to the admin user group, otherwise make Faal and I PZwiki:Bureaucrats
These are the rights it adds
Edit all user rights (userrights)
Not be affected by rate limits (noratelimit)
Override the spoofing checks (override-antispoof)

[digital helm]

Yeah, I was going to go through it today and update. Such as AWB not available

[serene sage]

very cool people, but also once I make a script how can I test it without making permanent changes to the site?

I don't think it'd be a good idea for the first run to be done on the site itself

[proud cobalt]

You can do it in your sandbox just copy an example page into a sandbox and have it target that page to edit

[proud cobalt]

Be careful, but do keep in mind there's (basically) nothing you can do as a user that cant be reverted.

I had to have something like 63 bot edits rolled back because of a stupid error i missed in testing

It happens

[serene sage]

damn

reminds me of the time I nuked my own private discord server because of a bug in one of my bots

on accident of course

now no one wants to join any of my new servers

[proud cobalt]

Lol i made a discord music bot and my friends purposely queued up as many 10 hours videos as they could because they knew it would download and store them locally

[digital helm]

sounds like you have good friends

[proud cobalt]

Anyone happen to know the location of an air conditioner in game i cant find one but i could be blind
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Air_Conditioner

[proud cobalt]

Always

[serene sage]

I think I spotted one yesterday but forgot where

uhhh

[proud cobalt]

Any idea what area?

[serene sage]

well

[digital helm]

https://map.projectzomboid.com/#8254x12229x14003

[serene sage]

ok nevermind

[proud cobalt]

Life saver

[serene sage]

I was going to say a brick building in Louisville

I know very helpful

[proud cobalt]

Had to verify it uses carpentry not electrical

[digital helm]

I used to use the necroforge mod for this stuff back in b38, which was great. It's how I got this screenshot https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:ContainersScreenshot.png and did all the testing for the containers page. I wonder if there's new mods that can do that, beyond the normal cheat menu

or maybe even create a mod to add these tiles. Should just be a case of copying one of the tile script entries and replacing the tile id

[proud cobalt]

Does this let you spawn tiles or at least put them in your inventory? Because the items list doesnt let you

[digital helm]

It did. I highly doubt it works in b41 though

[proud cobalt]

This one? https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=717015179&searchtext=Necroforge

[serene sage]

just finished moving the article contents to the page

the articles can now be nuked safely

[digital helm]

that was it

didn't know that updated to b41

[serene sage]

wait what building story is this? a bunch of raiders in a Spiffo's with ten corpses

there are also some cops as well

[lucid junco]

Police raid?

Looted?

[lucid junco]

It can be this

[restive adder]

Added to my to-do list

[serene sage]

yeah seems like a combination of a bunch of survivor stories

lucky

[digital helm]

Some changes to the bot policy. Mostly just updates and clarifications https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=PZwiki%3ABots&type=revision&diff=381167&oldid=313175
@proud cobalt none of these would affect what you've been doing. I decided to keep the rate limits, as I'd feel much more comfortable having something there, rather than relying purely on this being automatically set, since the limit set for bots is 90 edits per minute.

[languid kayak]

(speaking of this screenshots, it's one of the outdated ones I din't want to recreate :P)

and in b41 there's a brushzed or whatever it's called that let you spawn any tile in-game

in 41.78.16

I didn't have it back when I was doing SYF 😄

[languid kayak]

nice, it was long overdue 👌

[proud cobalt]

Yeah the true limit is very different but having a written limit i think is a good idea, giving it a read now

[proud cobalt]

I was thinking of remaking it as it has the old player model

I've been thinking about making more of my pwb scripts public but some of them have personal info id have to scrub first

Hard coding file paths is a bad habit but so easy

Tile articles are finally getting into a much better state
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Bar_Corner_Counter

Actually i need to investigate where the capacity of the containers went

[languid kayak]

Yeah ,seems fine, only nit I guess is a description should start with A and have the name in lowercase, i.e., "A bar corner counter"

I think the infobox should explain some properties in tooltip (we should make infobox tooltips mobile friendly too), like what exactly are "is low".

Also, is the "thumpable" defined anywhere? As in, can it be attacked by zombies? Or is it uniformly true for all moved tiles?

I just remember reporting composers not being thumpable which was later fixed

[proud cobalt]

Still working on that kind of stuff, hard to do for a bot, i would guess most need to start with A but some will sound wrong with it.

Agree on islow, currently working on infoboxes to build them out, added dissasembly last night so verifying it all went well (Looks good so far).

I'd have to investigate how i could find that out. If you know a way let me know. Might be true for all movables 🤔

[languid kayak]

I guess is low is for defining all of these?
a) whether a tile can be mounted on top of it
b) whether it's blocking line of sight
c) whether a walking animation continues when the tile is right next to window?

I kinda wonder how deep the tile placements are defined, is it really so simple or not.

Back when we played, I remember I could mount the https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Metal_Shelves and https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Wall_Clock on the same time IIRC (though I might be misremembering things), I also don't know how placing things like microwaves or placing 3D item models is defined

[languid kayak]

I wonder if we need the gallery in here when we have 3D models? https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Tin_Foil_Hat

[proud cobalt]

I would say no to the grass image but keep the player

[languid kayak]

yeah, I thought so too 😄

[proud cobalt]

Do fridges need tools to move, i cant remember and cant check right now

(Said dissassemble meant move)

I think its electrical 3 and a screwdriver

[serene sage]

I don't think so

I don't remember needing any skills to move them

I'll quickly check though

been a long time since I needed to move one

[proud cobalt]

You might be right, i think the thread i found was outdated

Probably best to go off the list here
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Appliances

The tile definitions have PickUpLevel 3 though so im a little confused

[serene sage]

@proud cobalt can confirm

fridges can be picked up even if your character is a nobody

[proud cobalt]

Yeah i just got remoted into my pc, ty

[languid kayak]

They don't, except the trailer built-in fridge

[digital helm]

Everything should start with A/An, otherwise it can be removed. If you have some examples of where it sounds wrong, let me know so we can revise the style guide

Pretty sure isthumpable only affects player made/placed objects. Unless they're a door or window. @languid kayak

[proud cobalt]

It should be good, ive got the bot working on it automatically processing whether it starts with a vowel or not to choose A vs An. Also making the bolded text lowercase, i will have to manually change some proper nouns

The Tdefs dont seem to contain any information on thumpable

[digital helm]

isothumpable i think is the class that does it

[digital helm]

Some proper nouns will still be A/An. Unique ones could probably be "The" though. E.g. "A Spiffo's" instead of "The Spiffo's"

[proud cobalt]

Yeah but also things like Abraham Lincoln painting needs to be capitalised even with an An before it

Some humour in the comments

    if props:Is(IsoFlagType.vegitation) then return false end```

[lucid junco]

@serene sage Hey, are car events considered anywhere on your page?

Tire changing, police blockade, sewage inspectors

[languid kayak]

@digital helm @proud cobalt which we prefer for tiles? Cropped or uncropped? https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Recreational_01_16.png vs https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Arcade_Machine.png I generally prefer cropped ones since they are bigger, though the uncropped are placed exactly like in the game 🤔

[proud cobalt]

Cropped but with the tile name. I cropped some but not all (or probably most). When I go through page by page I plan to redo them now that I have the tile names saved and uploaded

Uncropped can look really bad, especially small tiles like floors and windows

[languid kayak]

You can move the existing ones to a new name too, just mark the old redirect to delete then 🙂

A lot of the tiles in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Tiles are in old name format, before we switched

There are still some red links in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Item_list#Furniture that probably should be manually(?) redirected to (I guess those are the names from https://github.com/TheIndieStone/ProjectZomboidTranslations/blob/master/EN/Moveables_EN.txt

and some missing in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Room_definitions_and_item_spawns

The red links in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Tiles are the non-movable ones for the most part, though some movable ones are still there 🤔

[serene sage]

yes they are, see https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Vehicle_stories

[digital helm]

Item_list is taken from ItemName_EN.txt and I'm assuming the tiles Calvy has done are from Moveables_EN.txt. Some will have their own page, like "Microwave" (there's White and Chrome). For others a redirect should be good.

[robust latch]

@lucid junco and @naive imp are Burnt Town and Abandoned Settlement complete, and good to go for translation? Will hop into these if so

[lucid junco]

Both of them were left almost finished, hard to say which one is more finished than other

Abandoned settlement is one some of us are unsure on name of, while I at this point agree that it can be called like 50 fucking different ways, so we all either have to ignore this issue for now and deal with more problems later, or choose its name

[lucid junco]

Burnt town needs its businesses table renamed from "Burned down [[X]]" to "Burnt [[X]]"

Unless it was done already, I didn't watch it all that much after changing its name

[robust latch]

Ok I ll just hold on for a while. Lets see if they change or not.

I will probably start applying new business table changes then

[languid kayak]

settlement seems to be the most neutral, so I guess it'll stay

[proud cobalt]

Not really looking at any of these until the pages are made

[languid kayak]

You mean some tile pages are still to be created? Are there any movable ones that were left by the script? If so, any particular reason why?

As I think only movables are linked there (unless we speak of tiles pages, then it's a lot of non-movables :P)

[proud cobalt]

The script is bound to miss something especially with the inconsistencies in all the files. And it also didn't overwrite any articles already using that name

Plus any other notable tiles that need their own articles

It would be cool to get a page for all non moveables too but I don't think there's any real way to automate that

[languid kayak]

Especially as they don't have names, other than the tile names as far as I'm aware…

[proud cobalt]

Yes that made it quite hard. Only tiles with custom items actually had a name I could grab from translations.

For the rest I had to get the seperate names and search the translations files for the best match of the words in any order

I have a list of all the articles that failed to upload because a page already existed with that name on my pc. Iirc there's not many and they aren't that important

[languid kayak]

Not sure I get it, I guess all movable gets a name but the order is GroupName CustomName but then it can get overriden by the content of Moveables_EN.txt, right? Or is it not entirely the case?

btw, do we need this category? https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:PZ_map_screenshots Technically almost all building screenshots are from PZ map technically 🤔

[proud cobalt]

I don't really remember to be honest 😆

[proud cobalt]

I wanted to keep Category:Screenshots for only in game screenshots, and the building images already have a category, but these didn't really fit in either

[digital helm]

I agree that it'd be good to keep the type of screenshot separated. Just about everything could go in screenshots otherwise

[digital helm]

Like the DisplayName for items gets overridden by ItemName_EN, the tile names also get overridden by Moveables_EN. Because these are separate, sometimes they have 2 different names, such as "Microwave" (item name) and "White Microwave" (tile name). From memory, the item name is only used if found as an item, otherwise as soon as it's placed and picked up, it'll use the tile name.

I don't remember if non moveables have names. Should be in tilezed.

We can put together a list of tiles from the translations easily to see which (if any) are missing.

[languid kayak]

Interesting note about the items found in containers, something to definitely take a look at.

With that in mind, I'm gonna go sleep, still have some catching up to do, you did a lot lol. Hopefully I'll be up to speed soon™ though no certainty how much time I'll have at my hands in the following week, so we'll see I guess 🙂

[proud cobalt]

That would be good

My edits will drop this week. Working on automatically parsing the tile info into a longer usage section. Already did placement type, but need to figure out how IsLow and tabletop work too. Also back to work as of today, and working on a personal project outside of wiki

[digital helm]

All good! You've done so much already

[languid kayak]

You finally giving me some time to catch up :D?

[proud cobalt]

It sounds nicer that way

[digital helm]

@languid kayak @proud cobalt list of tiles from Moveables_EN.txt https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Tile_list

[digital helm]

the item name is only used if found as an item (and spawned with debug), otherwise as soon as it's placed and picked up, it'll use the tile name.
Verified this. It's taking the info from the tile id (tiledef), rather than the item id. Item id is only for spawning it as an item. I imagine this is why there's a different context menu for placing and picking up traps, because it's using a different mechanic

[proud cobalt]

It must also be for spawning in procedural distributions? At a guess

[digital helm]

yeah, that's right

        rolls = 1,
        items = {
            "Mov_Microwave2", 20,
            "Mov_Microwave2", 10,
            "Mov_Microwave", 20,
            "Mov_Microwave", 10,
            "Mov_Toaster", 20,
            "Mov_Toaster", 10,
        },
        junk = {
            rolls = 1,
            items = {
                "Mov_Microwave2", 50,
                "Mov_Microwave", 50,
                "Mov_Toaster", 50,
            }
        }
    },```

[proud cobalt]

Yeah that looks familiar from distribution tables

[digital helm]

@languid kayak I've added the tile/furniture sprites and IconsForTexture to https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Item_list
I'm unsure of the best way to do the cooked/rotten/burnt/overdone textures currently

I also removed the use of {{ID}} to hopefully speed up load times a smidge

[languid kayak]

Neat, was actually wondering about it but didnt want to push you 😛

As far as cooked/rotten/burnt overdone, I guess it can be bruteforced?

if exist
xxcooked|xxrotten|xxburnt|xxoverdone
then add variant

all icons should be uploaded, I don't think I miss something.

Whether they are actually used that's a different question 😄

[languid kayak]

nice to have the movables sorted too, I just moved the soda dispenser, I can move them by hand unless you want to do that and fix the redirects and mark them for removal via bot @proud cobalt? Right now it's redirecting from the old pages: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Location_shop_accessories_01_8.png

[languid kayak]

Feel free to pass the list though, maybe I can have a look 🙂

There seems to be some tiles either missing or named different than the ones in-game, I guess it's because there's 4 layers game picks

1. GroupName CustomName
2. Displayname
3. Name from translations
4. And if in containers, name from the item lists (this one I have to check)

For example I don't recall https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Large_Cardboard_Box and "Cardboard Box" (Base.Mov_CardboardBox from https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Item_list#Furniture)

[digital helm]

Yeah I could do that, just check if a file exists with {icon}{suffix}. I was hoping to do it all through the scripts, but this'll work. I'll look at it hopefully this week. I've started so many projects lately, which I need to finish off

[serene sage]

why are school bags so rare

[digital helm]

What story is it?

[serene sage]

the "school" story

[digital helm]

ah... weird

[serene sage]

the bags are common in the lockers

but the ones found beside a desk are rarer than a katana

though with the amount of desks in a school it's probably effectively more common

[digital helm]

true. I've never seen any 🤔 but I spend little to no time in schools

[digital helm]

I only remember Cartbox 😄

[robust latch]

I had checked the school building story couple days ago it does frequently spawn school bags on the classroom floor.

So maybe that indicates something else?

[serene sage]

oh really?

[serene sage]

turns out it's the "looted shop" story

[languid kayak]

projects on wiki or projects IRL?

[digital helm]

It's per tile in the classroom. There's some for loops higher up so that it iterates over each tile. So you'll get an average of 1 school bag every 120 tiles in a classroom.

      for(int var3 = var1.x - 1; var3 < var1.x2 + 1; ++var3) { // x-coord
         for(int var4 = var1.y - 1; var4 < var1.y2 + 1; ++var4) { //y-coord
            for(int var5 = 0; var5 < 8; ++var5) { //z-coord (level)
               IsoGridSquare var6 = var2.getGridSquare(var3, var4, var5); 
               if (var6 != null && this.roomValid(var6)) { // checks if current tile is a 'classroom'

[digital helm]

wiki projects. The "Items" and "Tiles" page, the "Template:Item list", and... others I can't remember 😄

I keep starting things and not finishing them

[languid kayak]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Papernotices_01_6.png seems there's a mall map tile behind the notices 😄

oh wait, it's an ominous sign

I think calvy exported it shortly before and it stayed as a layer 😛 Pinging you @proud cobalt just so you know 😄

[serene sage]

bro there's percentage chances, generic weighted chances, and now tile based chances?

this is basically spaghetti code

[digital helm]

All the building stories seem to be like that 🤔 just look for those 3 for loops I mentioned and IsoGridSquare

I'm not sure how the survivor stories choose their positions. I don't know why it couldn't be the same as that for positions

[serene sage]

might have been implemented at different times/devs

or maybe just generally some kind of story couldn't be spawned in normally and needed a different way to spawn

[languid kayak]

Not sure if anything changes soon, but sadly a lot of the code in PZ seem to be like that, though at least b41/b42 teases seems to refactor some of theat so maybe eventually that will too 🤔