pzwiki_editing

[robust latch]

No it shouldnt, -25 boredom is so unnecessary because everly line gives -25 boredom, a simple sentence should suffice. When people see a highlighted text they could go "Oh ok, this is somewhat different&important of a media".

[digital helm]

1. we were removing colours for the reason Faal stated, it was too hard to read. This is why the "person" was added to the transcript template. Also, I think some colours are wrong, at least in radio/tv, and don't correctly indicate different people talking in some cases (although rare)
2. Changing to a table should clear this issue up - {{clear}} is a fine temporary solution, but can create big 'white space' gaps, which I think should be avoided. (more could be done on the css side for this)

[robust latch]

Faal and i was thinking no colours aswell, i think its pretty much setted with no colours.

For number 2, i have no idea :P. Whatever solution you deem fit is good for me.

[digital helm]

you want to get rid of the mention of boredom per line in the infobox altogether? I think that's fine. I was referring to the way this is currently presented https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Granny_Nani

[digital helm]

Should've been #3 😄 discord auto-corrected it to 2

[robust latch]

Oh no no, in infobox its fine to have boredom. I misunderstood you lol

Ok yeah it could stay as -25 per line in infobox

[digital helm]

so have -25 per line in the infobox for all media?

[robust latch]

Yep

[lucid junco]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Drug_lab
Page created

[robust latch]

Looks very good bruv

[lucid junco]

https://tenor.com/view/breaking-bad-walter-white-jesse-pinkman-heisenberg-vince-gilligan-gif-27153157

[digital helm]

This is awesome, I love it! We may just want to look at using a flexbox, so the tables align better on smaller displays

[lucid junco]

Is this true?

[naive imp]

I don't think they should be worthy of a page. See slurp burp page

[proud cobalt]

How would i do that? using https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=User:Calvy/sandbox3&action=edit as an example

[lucid junco]

Maybe putting every ingame brands within one page?

[proud cobalt]

^ A brands page would be better as part of lore @robust latch

[proud cobalt]

As far as containers go yes. Zombies not sure

Actually there may be another labratory 🤔

[naive imp]

Aren't there hazmat zeds?

[lucid junco]

There are

But in general no page mentions possibility of spawning on zeds/ as a part of the story

[proud cobalt]

Maybe ill work on zombie spawns one day, gotta finish this one first

[lucid junco]

Maybe thats a bit harder and not as straightforward as containers are

[proud cobalt]

Inspired by your tables from 6 years ago

[lucid junco]

Brands like Valu, Citr are definetly deserving of at least combined page, since they are heavily present in the game

[robust latch]

There are many brands in the game, a lot of them have buildings&businesses that are already covered in businesses category. Scraping each one of them will require a lot of time and effort, you will have to go through all the medias to spot each, and look at the map for those may not be mentioned in any of the media, while also making sure they dont have a building (because they already have articles in wiki).

[lucid junco]

For Valu its: Tires, Insurance, Tech
Citr: posters, Vending Machines, containers, adverts

[digital helm]

Just noticed you hardcoded the collapsible box. Was something wrong with using https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:ToggleBox ?

or is this changed in the new version?

[digital helm]

Could these be mentioned in the improved businesses page you were planning @naive imp ?

[lucid junco]

I mean, Its like leaving out brands as big as Coca Cola in terms of widespreadness

[digital helm]

would be nice of there was a Citr8 beverage, to make it easier to mention

[lucid junco]

Yea, so far Citr8 is a heavily advertised branding that has no actual products

But its everywhere

[proud cobalt]

I wanted to avoid the mess of magic words making it even less user friendly

[robust latch]

We can create a "Brands" page as a stub, to see how it gets shaped. You can maybe spearhead this if you want @lucid junco ?

[digital helm]

I would worry "brands" would overlap with "businesses" and hard to differentiate between them

[robust latch]

Thats why its a stub, we can delete it if we cant make progress

[naive imp]

Valu-tech has a page that I plan on expanding so it could be included in there

[lucid junco]

Imagine having adverts everywhere of a product that you cant even buy

[robust latch]

Maybe the brands could be a subcategory in businesses i dont know, or maybe it can become like the Easter Eggs page

depending on how much info and brands can be nitpicked

[naive imp]

Agreed with @robust latch I think we're scraping too much here @lucid junco not everything deserves a wiki page.

Plus, what would we even say about citr? "They make posters and vending machines"?

That's not enough for a dedicated wiki page imo

Not a fan of the brands idea either

But I do think valu needs expansion

[lucid junco]

Aight, maybe somewhere in the future when we actually get our Citr8 soda

[digital helm]

did you plan on using container-table and vehicle-table classes for anything?

[proud cobalt]

Not really, i dont have much experience with html/css but it didnt seem to work without them

[digital helm]

I see. Just <div> would've worked. I'll change to id instead of class so you can link to them, and still restyle with css if we wish in the future. I'll do these changes on your sandbox https://pzwiki.net/wiki/User:Calvy/sandbox3

[proud cobalt]

Ok sounds good thanks, let me know when its done and ill implement it into the script

[lucid junco]

@naive impShould I add Safehouse potential to buildings?

A lot of businesses and building have it, so Im a bit unsure

[proud cobalt]

The consensus was only on pages that really deserve it, like Rosewood fire station

[lucid junco]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Muldraugh_Train_Station
Aight then, page created

It probably needs logo since it has one, but idk how to extract them from the game

[digital helm]

this is just using the existing pz-container class, which we use on the main page and community portal. May need to add a class for tables at some point, to fix the width. But this works for now

https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=User%3ACalvy%2Fsandbox3&type=revision&diff=326171&oldid=326147

[naive imp]

No. Only buildings that are really good for it as calvy mentioned

[lucid junco]

Aight, I was already doing that with buildings that have unbreakable windows (gun store) and/or tall fences

Just clarifying that Im was doing right

[naive imp]

Tbh it's case by case basis

[lucid junco]

Its in general

[naive imp]

I'll take a look sometime this week

[lucid junco]

Aight, I think Ill finish with Muldraugh today, there will be links with everything what Ive done in this chat

[proud cobalt]

Works great thanks, goes under each other on mobile but side by side on pc which is perfect. implementing into the script now

[digital helm]

do you think the threshold for the infobox expanding to 100% should be the same as this? Currently infobox is 720px, whereas this is 1280px. So it only expands for some mobiles.

[digital helm]

actually 640px for infobox, so even smaller than I thought 🤔

[proud cobalt]

Somehow even using the exact same code as last time i deployed the distribution tables im getting different results

[lucid junco]

B- Consistency

[lucid junco]

@naive imp @languid kayak Is this a "Radio relay station"?

Same for this one

[lucid junco]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/General_store_(Muldraugh)
Page created

[lucid junco]

They arent as far as Im aware

[languid kayak]

We have Tooks and Incontivele already

[languid kayak]

Never noticed it's actually a druglag room 😄 People were wondering if it's a reference to breaking bad (and I think it is)

https://youtu.be/KSSVR-l9mkE?si=04TdWalyg8wKwGP5&t=156

[tulip kiln]

Yeah probably shoulda told you guys about that place, Blair told me ages ago about it

[languid kayak]

We have it already, though it's low quality

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Muldraugh_train_station_logo.png

[lucid junco]

The only source for that name is PZ map, which isn't great 😅

But Ingame roomtypes/zombietypes give nothing

[proud cobalt]

@languid kayak Do we need to create pages for traits that aren't in the game anymore or may never be with B42 changing how traits work? People cant play old versions so they dont have any value imo
https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=PZwiki:Tasks&diff=324945&oldid=324647

[proud cobalt]

I should be able to implement this into distributions pretty easily™

The modders helped me find this

[lucid junco]

I think whats left are Chances of spawning as random building/table stories

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Pencil#Crafting
uuuuhh

[proud cobalt]

#pzwiki_editing message

[lucid junco]

This also is a bit lengthy way of saying "Has 23,28% chance of spawning in glovebox of every vehicle"

[proud cobalt]

Might not be every glovebox

[lucid junco]

Then what does "All" type mean?

[proud cobalt]

That's a second roll

So an ambulance has two chances one with ambulance and one with all

[lucid junco]

So that means that cars that aren't within that list have only 23,28% and roll for it once, while cars within that list rolls twice

[proud cobalt]

Kind of, rolls is an actual term used by Distributions which is taken into account for effective chance formula. It's more like you have two chances at 23% effective chance each

[languid kayak]

Well, the icon's there and pages were linked to before, so idk. Is the code even there? I got a feeling some might get repurposed though (blacksmith) and some may get readded when NPCs are added, but that's a lot into the future

[languid kayak]

I remember Letlah mentioning it on the wiki in one of the talk pages

[languid kayak]

I'll change it to textual description, similar to the https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Doodle&type=revision&diff=326233&oldid=326219

[lucid junco]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Radio_relay_station_(Muldraugh)
Page Created

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Grocery_store_(Muldraugh)
Page Created

[proud cobalt]

@digital helm I got zombie attatched spawning working, so am updating the tables now. Ive changed <div id="containers" style="flex-basis:50%"> to <div id="containers" style="flex-basis:30%"> so we can have 3 tables side by side. Still functions the same dynamically and no squish on the tables

[lucid junco]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Radio_relay_station_(Riverside)
Page created

[lucid junco]

I think Muldraugh and Riverside are mostly finished

There is one universal problem among them are Grocery stalls

There are 4-5 grocery stalls in the map and Idk wether they deserve a page or not

Im obviously speaking about them having shared page, not individual ones

@languid kayak @naive imp what do you think?

[naive imp]

You mean the little street vendor type things? Eh, up to you. If they're really that small I wouldn't even bother.

Also I could've sworn all those stores you created had pages already, but I suppose I was wrong. I must've missed them in the rush to get everything done for a re-look. Thanks for catching it! 😀

[lucid junco]

These things, ye

[lucid junco]

I sure do hope that I haven't created any overlapping pages, but nothing came up upon wiki search on any of them so😅

Oh shit, Ive completely forgotten about the West Point

Its still unstandardized

Oops

[naive imp]

I'll take a look sometime this week probably tmrw

[lucid junco]

Aight, West Point Finished

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/West_Point#Businesses

[languid kayak]

I don't mind more pages, but that's me 😄

[lucid junco]

Gotcha

Rn working on a Doe Valley page

I will have to return Landmarks category to every page eventually, but not now

[languid kayak]

Fixed Doodle, Pen and Pencil, so far only got English versions (gonna see the non-English ones)

[languid kayak]

Also moved some obsolete pages

[proud cobalt]

A good question from Sarah here if anyone knows the answer?
Does anyone know how many tiles is the radius from the gas pump in order to fill directly into a vehicle? For example, your car's gas cap has to be within 2 tiles from the gas pump in order to use the V menu to fill it up.
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Talk:Gas_pump

[lucid junco]

Genuinely a good question, I think I can test it

[proud cobalt]

The first wayback machine capture of pzwiki (that isn't an under-construction page)

[sleek elk]

Hey sorry for the very late response, work's been supes busy and I've had no brain juice left for wiki editing at the end of each day.

I think this looks good as a "quick and dirty" separate from the more detailed "Creating a new page" section at the top. At the same time though, if someone isn't looking to read more than the quick and dirty "Editing for beginners" we may not want to be encouraging that person to create pages in the first place vs. just contributing edits to existing pages y'know? My thinking is JUST keeping 'Creating a new page' and have seeing it, clicking it, and reading it be a litmus test for whether that person is someone we want creating pages lol

Also probably not a bad idea to have a "None of the above"/"Default" boilerplate but not sure what that'd look like. Just a very loose scaffold that at least ensures a baseline level of uniformity for stuff that doesn't fit one of the more specific templates. Plus that way you can include {{Underconstruction}} in any new pages by default which kinda forces page creators to learn how to use MBoxes and make sure they put an accurate one if merited

I just wrapped up a big work project and another one wraps up this week so hopefully I'll be able to contribute a bit more actively

[lucid junco]

I think boilerplates are better as examples to look at, rather than something to base a new page off

As someone who joined wiki editing what, like a month and a bit ago(oh god it has already been a month since I joined), I found it better to start off with editing already existing pages and frankly using them as templates

[languid kayak]

So you mean the https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Help:Editing_for_beginners#Creating_a_new_page should effectively be just a link to the proper guide?

The boilerplates were (and still are, currently focusing on items), taking my mind lately 😛 So far the https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Help:Boilerplate_tile https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Help:Boilerplate_location and https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Help:Boilerplate_item are revised, while I'll redo the weapons (hopefully soon™), then after I finish checking weapon pages (got stuck in infobox a little), I'll be moving to clothing and then food.

Afterwards I'll probably think what other pages we'd need (vehicles, survivors), but you mean you'd want another boileplate that's none of these? For things not covered like generic pages for things like explaining game mechanics and such? These are indeed pretty much just the header, page version and potentially some mboxes/abouts and no standard section (no infobox, no navbox)

[languid kayak]

I'm getting back to this, the issue is still that a weapon with 1 base condition and 10 lower condition chance would still be different than the 10 base condition and 1 lower condition chance. While both would have a calculated "base durability" of 10, the first one would always last for 10 hits while the second would be prone to the RNG as explained in the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tf9FxOjqHI4

Vaileasys touched the https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Durability_weapon and the table too, whether it should replace the value in infobox

The issues unsolved so far are:

• Renaming durability to condition (I think we should follow that up, seems condition is used uniformly in-game now), including renaming base durability to something else, the naming is rather poor imo ("Average condition"? or maybe even more descriptive "Average number of hits before breaking" (tad long though)).
• Do we still need the base durability in the infobox? C.f., https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Axe I initially thought of adding it as a tooltip, though there is an issue of it not viewable on mobile; does the table functionality replace it enough?
• Do we want to add it back to the https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Weapons (doable, just gotta rename the value and come up with an icon)

[proud cobalt]

I've been doing some data visualisation stuff as a break and I ended up with this image. It is an image of the entire wiki, with each dot being an article, and each line being what that article links to, and is linked from. It is clustered by an algorithm that creates 'communities' based off categories, and that creates distance based on the amount of relevant links to each other. I don't really understand it all and I'm still trying to identify all the communities still. But for the moment, pretty (and very large) picture

Web image if you dont want to download it

https://puu.sh/K63jm.png

[sleek elk]

Yeah exactly. The main thing I was originally saying was direct someone to the editing guide in general in case they're dumb like me and didn't see it on the side once they set their account up lol the "Create a new page" part is obvious enough from there imo

[lucid junco]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Medical_clinic_(Doe_Valley)
Page Created

@languid kayak How can I add it to services?

[languid kayak]

Can do both I guess, maybe not this second though 😛

[languid kayak]

You have to edit https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Navbox_locations and then add {{Navbox locations|services}} on the page in question. I still didn't went through the recent changes to see if all the new buildings are there 😄

locations*

[lucid junco]

There is a small discrepancy either with wiki pages or boilerplate location

Since Ive seen (and used) pages without Strategy and even gallery sometimes

And with Interior severed into Location and Loot

Or something like this abomination :P

[sleek elk]

Ooo having entries for individual buildings could be really handy for like, "Where can I find guns?" type searches

[lucid junco]

I mean, we have entry for almost every business building

[sleek elk]

Yeah I didn't realize there were ones for buildings at all

[proud cobalt]

https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Ben's_Cabin&diff=203869&oldid=198027

[lucid junco]

I aint saint either, Gun Store page Ive shown was mine

[proud cobalt]

Haha no harm id been editing for about a week there

[lucid junco]

But yea, I think this mishmash of designs should end

[languid kayak]

Gallery is to be added on the pages missing them I guess; ThinkDock slowly does add internal and external images. I proposed adding them to infobox, testing can be seen in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/School_(Riverside)/sandbox and https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Muldraugh_Elementary/sandbox – we're not utilizing the multi image support for sandbox currently, ThinkDock was in favor of adding them to gallery instead.

The location infobox doesn't support alt names / tooltips for images currently, but that could be added (it's what is used for multe items such as https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Paint )

[languid kayak]

We do have some cateogires in progress; currently it's only convenience stores and liquor stores though: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Businesses

[proud cobalt]

There used to be a category for buildings with guns right?

[languid kayak]

I think so? I believe we removed it but we're known to change minds constantly 😄

[proud cobalt]

iirc it was very outdated, needs to wait until locations is done

[languid kayak]

https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Category:Buildings_with_guns

[sleek elk]

Maybe it should be a separate thing (type vs. category or something) but it could be cool to also have a tag for what the in-game map considers it to be with a corresponding colored square could be good too. Like 🟫 Residential, 🟨 Restaurants & Entertainment

[languid kayak]

Content before deletion was

{{Deprecated}}
There are several buildings in project zomboid which '''always''' have guns in them. Below is a list of those buildings.

I don't think there are buildings that always have guns, RNG can be a bitch

[sleek elk]

Though a lot of my thinking on this is admittedly just because I'm thinking of how to use the data programatically for my own selfish interests lol

[languid kayak]

That's what wikis are for, though

[sleek elk]

I've been learning practical business applications for AI for work, both for my own benefit and to make sure we're not missing out on potential value, and using PZWiki to test theories on how I can get it to answer questions off of specific sites/data sets has been a bit of a pet project.

Because I already know what answers I expect it let's me focus on whether it's the data or the query that needed improvement and how to improve it.

Plus y'know legitimately handy when playing online to just ask Copilot a question instead of searching through multiple wiki pages.

[lucid junco]

I meant that there are alot of pages that do not follow boilerplate

Boilerplate has essentially 5( or 4 if the building isnt a chain) paragraphs:
*Description
*Location
*Interior
*Strategy
*Gallery

This is a page that roughly follows it:
*Description
*(No location because it isnt a chain)
*Interior
*Gallery

This is a page that hates the rules and uses different paragraphs:
*Description
*Location
*Loot
*Safehouse potential

[languid kayak]

The boilerplate is based mostly off of https://pzwiki.net/wiki/User:ThinkDock1721/sandbox so pinging @naive imp for this too

I'm fine with changing it if needed though 🙂

Keep in mind I might be a little less helpful on this, as I'd mostly love to focus on weapons plus might be busy with some RL stuff, though I'm there to help if you need me/want a second though :p

can stuck {{Improve}} tag on it till then, too

[lucid junco]

Its okay, I was just a bit scared that I had done.. quite a lot of pages wrong

[languid kayak]

Nothing that can't be undone 😄 Plus with us constantly changing minds, it might get changed all over even now 😄

btw, which one you think is better when it comes to gallery though anyway?

These two (in infoboxes)

• https://pzwiki.net/wiki/School_(Riverside)/sandbox
• https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Muldraugh_Elementary/sandbox

Or the ones in gallery?

• https://pzwiki.net/wiki/School_(Riverside)
• https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Muldraugh_Elementary

[lucid junco]

Id say the firt with "interactive" infobox

[robust latch]

I added xp's and recipes to infobox item

[proud cobalt]

@languid kayak Yeah i was going to make them sortable last night but instead spent till 4am fixing a different issue, will merge the request soon

[sleek elk]

@languid kayak @lucid junco here's an example of what I was getting at above. The links at the bottom provide context to pull more details from.

[languid kayak]

I wonder if it'd be possible to add all other ways to find items, these can be hard though:

• Zombie outfits (rely on GUIDs)
• Table stories (.java class)
• Survivor stories, Vehicle stories, zone stories and annotated maps loot (not sure where it's defined)

the zombie outfits should be parseable, and some rare clothing can be found that way

[proud cobalt]

That would ideally be the end goal. Though some time in the future. i only implemented zombie attached weapons because it was much simpler than i expected. Though i didnt look into the effective chance, currently they just have the file chance number, which i dont think is actually a %

[lucid junco]

.java class for all stories

At least for building ones

[languid kayak]

and annotated maps?

[lucid junco]

These are all .class

[languid kayak]

Not sure where the code for survivor groups (the ones with the Base.Bag_SurvivorBag) are located, though I guess the bag content itself is in distributions

[lucid junco]

Separate

[lucid junco]

Table stories are a bit convoluted to say at least

When I personally tried to take a crack at it, it lead to very wip survivor stories page on wiki

[languid kayak]

Are these https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Survivor#Survivor_homes randomized buildings?

Or is it a separate thing?

[languid kayak]

Yeah, I took care of it just now 😛 https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Survivor_stories

Still barebones, but a better place to host what was already in survivor page anyway

I'll link it at the main page later, maybe that way at least it gets picked up eventually 😄 Not only you have to work on it, and you did headstarted it anyway 😛

[proud cobalt]

I have removed the last uses of the crafting header, and verified that each old crafting system page is now only transcluded by other depreciated templates. They have now all been marked for deletion. Once they are deleted i can replace Template:Crafting with Template:Crafting/sandbox2

[lucid junco]

Nope, they arent

Technically

These are "randomizedDeadSurvivors"

And these are randomized buildings

[proud cobalt]

I accepted your pr but main was outdated so manually put it into the new code and pushed. Will wait to update distribution tables though. Poor calvybot has been worked to the bone. See the new output here:
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/User:Calvy/sandbox3

[languid kayak]

seems nice so far

[naive imp]

You haven't done them wrong, matter of fact ive taken a look and youve done them all just right.

The issue is that there are a good amount of pages that were created while the standardized formatting was in a sort of limbo state and still being worked on. These should be updated to follow the new formatting.

[lucid junco]

Yea, okay, Ill use boilerplates as a template from now on. But I have a question about businesses that have multiple buildings within them, Eg Camp Busy Beaver. Should I use locations to show off every building in that case?

[naive imp]

I'd say just use the interior section and mention that there are multiple buildings. If the area is too big you can use "different areas/buildings" as done here: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/West_Maple_Country_Club

Oh I guess someone renamed it to districts that doesn't really fit

But yeah just use "different areas" or "different buildings" if you need to

[languid kayak]

Do take a look at https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Help:Boilerplate_location and feel free to update it accordingly, it should be the one to follow up now

[languid kayak]

I did update the boilerplate a little too, @naive imp can I remove the https://pzwiki.net/wiki/User:ThinkDock1721/sandbox now?

[lucid junco]

Fuck

Its Restaurant

Not Restaraunt😔

[naive imp]

Yeah feel free to blank the page for me if you got time 😀

[lucid junco]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Restaurant_(Doe_Valley)
Page created

[languid kayak]

I can just remove it, you will be able to recreate it when needed 😄

[lucid junco]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Ice_cream_parlor_(Doe_Valley)
Page Created

It should probably be reworded, especially the Trivia section

Personally couldn't decide between

• There is a gravel trail leading to the household, possibly meaning that they own the business
  And
• There is a gravel trail leading to the household, possibly meaning that its a family business

[languid kayak]

the latter sounds better? Though not sure; my notes are often due to be reworded too 😄

[languid kayak]

btw, I've been dipping into https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Scripts_guide a little after messing with the https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Infobox_item (for which most parameters are heavily based on the scripts which I'm going to link, but I've been thinking of renaming the pages, partially to avoid subpages:

• Scripts guide → Scripts parameters
• Scripts guide/Item Script Parameters → Scripts item parameters (and similar for other pages)
• Scripts guide/Item Script Parameters/Alcoholic → Alcoholic (or Alcoholic (scripts item parameter))

Thoughts? There's quite some pages: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Item_script_parameters so that would be quite some renames, pinging @proud cobalt as that would be require bot to rename ideally (330 pages).

There's also a situation with https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Lua_Events https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Lua_Objects though I didn't get into it 😄 Those renames are kinda part of https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Project_Modding but it has been neglected for a while, the last really active contributor was Aiteron back then adding it all.

[languid kayak]

I am also wondering to rename that to "settlement" https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Abandoned_village

Also, should it be added into navbox region properly?

[robust latch]

Settlement is fine imo

we shouldnt add to navbox region, or perhaps we should because we have abandoned town there

[languid kayak]

Yeah, that's what I was thinking 😄

Not sure myself, I guess I'll get back to it later

[robust latch]

Maybe it can be a, well, a business in Dixie Highway category? If that road is the Dixie Highway to begin with.

My english just pressed F

[languid kayak]

@robust latch you still need this I guess? https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Granny_Nani&curid=26727&diff=331051&oldid=325355

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Talk:Restaurant_(Riverside) leaving it here for discussion too

[proud cobalt]

If you put it on bot tasks i will get to it (if you havnt already), im not sure how quick the bot gets rate limited moving pages, i get rate limited moving more than 10

[proud cobalt]

This has to be a Pile o' Crepe, unique design used by every Pile o' Crepe, crepe kitchen roomdef. Thats enough evidence

[lucid junco]

As I said, I personally didn't know 100% wtf is this, but I think we should add an redirect if we are going to name it to "settlement"

[lucid junco]

Because I think "abandoned village" is something that comes up first when you look at it

[lucid junco]

Ill check zombieType when Im back home

Though it already passes a duck test, so we can call it Pile O crepe regardless

[lucid junco]

Fuckin hell

Did no one bother with checking the roomtype?

Its literally called "Kitchen_crepe"

[proud cobalt]

#pzwiki_editing message

[lucid junco]

Case resolved

One less unnamed restaurant 😄

@languid kayak @digital helm how can I change the page name? Or is it mods only?

[proud cobalt]

There should be a move button near the top right, Depending what skin you use it may be behind a dropdown menu

[lucid junco]

I think that page should be deleted actually, since its a part of pile o crepe

[proud cobalt]

That has to be done by an admin. Mark it with an Mbox {{Delete|Moved to [[XYZ]].}}

[lucid junco]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Restaurant_(Riverside) done

[proud cobalt]

Looks good, just for future reference mboxes go under page version and above infoboxes

[lucid junco]

Moved it😅

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Pile_o'_Crepe#Locations
Added it

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Riverside#Restaraunts_%26_Entertainment
Renamed it here

Done :)

[proud cobalt]

I cant seem to get apngs to be smaller than gifs without crunching colours. admitedly im using the gif as the starting point. Were you remaking them from scratch?

[robust latch]

Reverted the edit

[lucid junco]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Clothing_store_(Doe_Valley)
Page Created

Doe Valley done!... Almost

@naive imp @languid kayak Heyy, which part of the Camp Busy Beaver is actually Camp Busy Beaver and not Deerhead Lake Park Ranger?

In game map shows this
(Blue - Community services
Yellow - Entertainment)

[proud cobalt]

Only this building can actually be confirmed as camp busy beaver afaik. But its heavily implied that the entire area is Deerhead lake. Camp busy beaver is a business that runs inside the park. And the park rangers office is just that building and picnic area

[lucid junco]

Personally found it to be around like this

Since all of these are yellow I think they are indeed campgrounds

[lucid junco]

There is another building that has Community service tag

And its this suspiciously ranger looking house with a gun locker

[proud cobalt]

This is how i interperate it

The change rooms could be maintained by the rangers, or the business. I would lean towards it being a public change room based on your map having it as blue

[lucid junco]

Personally would make a map like this with
orange being the Park area
Red - Camp busy beaver
Blue - Park rangers
Black - Changing rooms

This area is unmarked, being neither a Camp or a Rangers

This area is ||(fucking dumb)|| also unmarked

[proud cobalt]

I think the difference is that Deerhead lake park ranger is a building that can be identified, the hunting lodge cant be. Whereas busy beaver all match and are in a localised area

[lucid junco]

This area really looks like an extention of a busy beaver camp

Since it has almost the same theming as other buildings in the camp

But it has neither the entertainment, nor community tag

[proud cobalt]

I agree with you but its not provable. It could just as much be a camping ground rented out by the county

The change rooms have the same building design

[lucid junco]

Yeah.. Id say that everything above the lake is busy beaver and below is ranger's, but without that much evidence wont be able to confidently add them together

So for now everything within this area is busy beavers

[proud cobalt]

I would say thats accurate

[lucid junco]

I mean, it has the same community and same theming

[proud cobalt]

That's not enough proof in these parts. I said the same thing about a couple of knox bank locations that also had the same interiors

[lucid junco]

And I dont know where to put it if it isn't :P

[proud cobalt]

Unnamed hunting lodge (Deerhead lake)

Speaking of. Deerhead lake could probably be its own subregion of doe valley @naive imp

[lucid junco]

Maybe, Id say to let others say their opinion and then decide

So lets wait

[lucid junco]

Should I do something like this

Or like this?

I find bland text descriptions a bit underwhelming tbh

[proud cobalt]

Who tf decided putting signs in the middle of other signs would be a good idea

[languid kayak]

nah, didn't yet as I wanted to discuss it, but I guess renaming would be sane

[proud cobalt]

Bot cant even upload images, which put a dent in todays plan

But i understand why

[languid kayak]

you have msupload though

for mass uploading

[proud cobalt]

msupload doesnt support apng

[lucid junco]

@naive imp first one uses boilerplate as a template, second uses other big locations pages

[naive imp]

Bottom image (not using table) fits better with all the other locations. The table is only really used for chains, makes no sense to use it here imo

[lucid junco]

Its a bit harder to split busy beavers into chunks though

It would be something like this, which is a bit arbitrary

[naive imp]

Make different subheadings for the three spots under the different areas section and then include Isometric views of all three in the gallery

That's what I'd do personally

[lucid junco]

Aight, also, can you give your opinion about our discussion with Calvy?

[naive imp]

Yeah just gimme a sec 😀

[lucid junco]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Camp_Busy_Beaver
Page remade

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Church#Locations
Added in missing churches

There are churches that dont come up in a table for some reason

After the Doe Valley one should be an Abandoned village one and then a bradenburg

[lucid junco]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Picnic_area_(West_Point)
Page Created

[lucid junco]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Ben's_Cabin
Page Remade

Ill call it a day for now, unless we are definite about what is and isnt a Deerhead Lake Park Ranger. @naive imp , ping me when you are ready :)

[restive adder]

are they a different extension -- do they end in .apng instead of .png?

[proud cobalt]

Yes file.apng

[restive adder]

That'll be why, I have to add it to the list of allowed file uploads

Edited, try again now @proud cobalt ?

[proud cobalt]

Yeah it accepts them now ty

[restive adder]

Can always ping me for anything like that with the wiki, might not be able to get to it quickly, but should be able to look into it 🙂

[proud cobalt]

Np, wasn't a big hassle right now. the APNGs dont seem to be smaller unless made from scratch

[restive adder]

I've added webp to the list of allowed files as well

[naive imp]

@lucid junco Sorry I couldn't get to this earlier, I'm at work at had to wait for my lunchbreak.

Personally I think that the park Ranger building page should only contain that house and the Ranger outpost.

On top of that, I think camp busy Beaver can easily be applied to all campsites in the general area. I don't see a need to overthink this.

Remember, not everything is worthy of inclusion into a wiki page. A campsite with a few picnic tables isn't enough content for a standalone page. If we're too absolutist in including everything, we will end up with pages that say

"There is a campsite here. It has 4 tables and a fire pit." Or similar, and nothing else. That contributes nothing of value to the reader.

Thank you though for clearing up that Riverside restaurant, it's an old page and I wasn't as good as I am now at differentiating locations before 😀

[lucid junco]

I was personally against splitting ranger house and a main hub into two pages since I feel it a bit unnecessary. Np about late response

[naive imp]

I agree. They should remain in the same page. Just mention "if you go this way, there is a house that the Ranger likely used that spawns firearms"

That's how I'd do it

[lucid junco]

Alright, Ill start working on it after a small break

I think after that whats left is to bring back the notable locations category within town pages

I had chopped it off since previously it was an amalgamation of Businesses and Landmarks

I had left it in Riverside to see how it looks

Currently it will look somewhat like that

[naive imp]

BTW, thanks for all you've been doing. Gonna put a good word in for you on the monthly summary. I haven't been as active lately because I've been addicted to RimWorld been busy with some things, but I'll be more active in the next few days

Well notable locations in the overview section? That was just to give a quick synopsis of the most valuable loot spots

[lucid junco]

Appreciate it. 😄I can also thank yall for helping me and discussing how to implement things in the best way possible

Honestly had been one of the best months I've ever experienced after a while and made me feel like Im actually doing something useful/important again

I had almost forgotten how it feels to start doing something and becoming so passionate that I didn't notice how 5 hours had passed

[proud cobalt]

Proof of concept. Took me way too long.

[naive imp]

We're nice people, good to have you around friend 💚

[proud cobalt]

Its a good feeling to get stuff done

[proud cobalt]

Every few hours i stop and think... Is this taking longer than doing each one manually? Then i look at the folder of 2,157 tile images and think, no. Probably not

[naive imp]

@proud cobalt me when categorizing images that one time

[lucid junco]

I think its also probably more consistent than aligning all images and then making them face front, though give a man a monster energy and a spare day and it could have possibly be done manually ;P

[proud cobalt]

I just couldn't stand to see all the logos with white goop all over them

[lucid junco]

Or without any transparency at all

Rip dark theme users

[proud cobalt]

[proud cobalt]

Started working on it at about 11, it's 3am now. Bed time

[lucid junco]

It really is😄

Good night

[proud cobalt]

[languid kayak]

Ideally yeah, I also used zopfli for apng, I think I described the process on my page?

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/User:Faalagorn/.webp_test

Actually, may be better to switch exclusively to ECT nowadays, as it does extra optimization passes zopfli doesn't do and it uses zopfli under the hood – I didn't knew it back then, but you can pass any number to it, 9 isn't the limit, though it will take exponentially more time for jew a byte or so, and you have to compress each frame individually, then stich it, then optimize, there's no easy to use tool for APNG to do it right 😩 (or at least there wasn't one before)

[languid kayak]

table supports up to 18 entries currently, I should be able to add support for more in a sec

[languid kayak]

You can name them just .png though @proud cobalt , but yeah, I see that's solved 😛 And may be not a bad idea to call them APNG to find them easier.

As far as animations goes though, I'd have to elaborate case-by-case whether we even need them? Thanks to multiple images in crafting templates and infoboxes just having all pictures separately may be preferred

[languid kayak]

It seems that webp (at least the animated ones?) don't show thumbnails, I never really researched it further https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:IndustrialFridge.webp

[restive adder]

Thumbnails are generated, so it'll be the first frame of the animation?

[languid kayak]

The only "problem" would be if we'd separate buildings that spawn guns, it was discussed briefly today (or was it yesterday?) Though OTOH it can just list the whole location as the one spawning guns

[languid kayak]

For me it was just a white rectangle and it doesn't show in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/User:Faalagorn/.webp_test at all, though it was a while when I tested it back then

[restive adder]

Plain are showing on that page for me, but not the heavily optimized

[languid kayak]

Nice! Does it take positions from the game files or just stiches it based on some image processing library?

[languid kayak]

Also, is it aligning the stiched image too? or is this just the perspective?

stiching (and not aligning) will be handy for https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Project_Seat_Yourself_Furniture

Kinda sad that this project gets no attention for so long 😄

[proud cobalt]

It first perspective transforms each individual sprite then just stitches them side by side, i dont know if its the best way to do it but it was the only way it worke. i really struggled to stitche them automatically while being angled

[lucid junco]

I think its better that way even for humans, than aligning them angled

In any case, that's 100x better than this

Or this 2.5d monstrosity

[proud cobalt]

@restive adder Could we request a dump of the logos before they're sliced into tiles? That would be an insane help. Even if theyre already perspective warped

[proud cobalt]

Wait @digital helm Do you have these still? https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Talk:Modding#logos Are they the split images or combined?

[proud cobalt]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Talk:Gas_pump

[proud cobalt]

Remove ==See also== that's empty; navboxes are not part of the "see also" section sadly (though ideally every page should have see also that is filled).

I don't agree with this. Why aren't navboxes part of see also? It's how a user can see other relevant sections from the article they're on.

I dont agree with calling a see also section is empty if it has a navbox in it

[lucid junco]

Civilian station can be found in radios

[proud cobalt]

All of them

And the last section is see also, which is a section for navigation

[lucid junco]

Hey, how can I answer to these?

Should I edit them or just add in another topic?

[lucid junco]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Camp_Busy_Beaver
Northern Lake added

[proud cobalt]

To reply just make a new line under their post and add a : before each line you write. then mark the end with ~~~~

Its almost like i said thats what i disagree with

[languid kayak]

huh, interesting, I assumed stiching them while angled would be easier, especially as game somehow does that by its own already 😄

Either way, a great tool neverheless for the actual logos!

[languid kayak]

It's Saureco not Sarah, otherwise good find!

[proud cobalt]

Oops

[languid kayak]

The problem is when there are references below "See also" 😄 Though maybe it's me used to see also being a list of actual relevant links instead of navbox too much?

and see also not being a mandatory field?

[lucid junco]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Deerhead_Lake_Park_Ranger
Page Remade

And with that, I think that businesses in main game area are finally finished😄

[languid kayak]

btw, I think that in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Building_multi_location all the locations should be automatically linked, as in why type [[Louisville]], where [[ and ]] should be part of the template. Easy to do, but would require changing it on all the pages with a bot 🤔. @proud cobalt what do you think?

[lucid junco]

Now its time for Louisville

[languid kayak]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Pencil/tr there's a template loop here, not sure what causes it 😩

[robust latch]

infobox item/tr had the attack_speed argument instead of base_speed

[robust latch]

Nice work

[languid kayak]

ah, that would be me then, thanks! Gotta update that, the infobox got some changes in the last days, still trying to wrap my hear around it all 😩

[languid kayak]

About that, I can keep redirect, but what do you mean the village coming up first when lookin at it? On the wiki or the internet? Because in the wiki it's just us naming it, and outside of the wiki I can't find references to it…

My only "problem" is that I'm not 100% if it's a "village" or just some undisclosed settlement 😛

[lucid junco]

You dug waaay too deep into it, I meant it literally, when you go there or look on a map its one of the names that come up in your brain. I agree that it can be called a "settlement", but since it doesn't have a definite name I think there should be a couple of redirects so that people dont have to try every possible combination of titles to find it.

[languid kayak]

Maybe indeed, just want to get over and add it to region if everything's fine, though I know I brought this up and never made up my mind hence going back into this 😄

btw, I've been thinking what to do with the rafinery in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Gas_2_Go – there's still https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Gas_2_Go_Full.png that is used in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Gas_station/it

While the location is worth to include, does it belong to the same box as other stations? Maybe it should be made into a different section?

[lucid junco]

I read "page" at first. But yeah, I think adding in refineries into their own section within their pages should be good enough

[languid kayak]

btw @proud cobalt I saw you added code to a lot of pages missing it; do you know if there are any more pages lacking it or have you checked it with a script or metodically somehow?

[languid kayak]

Guess, I'll take it out of the infobox and make a separate section where both images can be put I guess 🤔

[proud cobalt]

Seems like extra work for little payoff when all the pages already work as intended

[proud cobalt]

I ran a search for {{Infobox item
with an exclusion on any page that had a codebox, then added the code to them. There shouldn't be any left

[robust latch]

I fixed those

[quartz bear]

whats the difficulty in doing that

[proud cobalt]

Did you read his message at all?

[quartz bear]

just add additional checker wikitext

[proud cobalt]

The issue has nothing to do with changing the template

[lucid junco]

Yeah, probably, I thought about doing it like McCoy's page, but I don't think that's going to work well

[quartz bear]

fixed lel

lucky me that wikimedia functions don't consume brackets as references

[lucid junco]

Dont forget about the Fossoil refinery :P

[languid kayak]

May be, yeah. Might put it somewhere down the priority list, though not so important I guess

[quartz bear]

won't push it into prod though because it's heavy on the processing side

(my capacity calculator template was probably heavier)

(does that even exist at this point?)

[languid kayak]

That was the plan, yeah, though the existing pages are [[[[Lousiville]]]] then 😄

[quartz bear]

anyway, {{#ifexist:{{{loc1|{{{t1|}}}}}}|[[{{{loc1|{{{t1|}}}}}}]]|{{{loc1|{{{t1|}}}}}}}}

i probably cant make a sandbox of a template and i dont really want to

application

usage

and yes I triple checked that the locations are actually set to that

and yes they lead to the same page

tested edge cases: 0

i could flex replacing all the loc* references in this template with a selfbot but i am certainly too lazy for that

wikitext ftw

as i said, not pushing this into prod

[languid kayak]

@proud cobalt https://pzwiki.net/wiki/First_aid_skill_books Shouldn't the name be "First Aid (skill book)"? I guess it'd fit it a little better.

Also, I realized the old names are still used as a tooltip, i.e. "First Aid for Beginners" when hovering over the item 😛

[quartz bear]

Wow

JPEG really took a toll on this thumbnail icon

[languid kayak]

Okay, added abandoned town into https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Knox_Country @lucid junco

BTW, I think at this point Brandenburg, Ekron and Irvington should be added there back as well as coming in build 42 🤔

[proud cobalt]

I dont mind that, i kept it plural because it's about multiple books

[languid kayak]

Okay, I kinda caught with the backlog, now @digital helm do you think we're at the point where we can remove old notices, infoboxes, navboxes and old crafting templates? @proud cobalt marked them all for removal and hand changed te missing pages, not sure there's something we'd lose yet? You mentioned the tooltips in infobox item needs to be moved for some languages, not sure there are any translations left.

I only have to update the following pages (including non-English ones) for some of the obsolete items (gotta do some research whether they should be removed, merged or whether they can be spawned in debug/found in code at all nowadays), along with the few items from https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Obsolete_items:
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Kindling
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Hot_Cuppa
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Broccoli_Chicken_Casserole
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Bowl_of_Ramen_Noodles

Then there's some cleanups of the https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Recipe_ingredients splitting by https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:Contributions/Smaugoferebor though I wish I'd at least go through weapons and clothing first before diving deep into food (there's a lot of things done for food but clothing needs some new templates)

[proud cobalt]

Whoever ends up doing it if they could go through this at the same time
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Deprecated_templates
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Pages_requested_for_deletion (Templates) that would be great, and let me know when i can move crafting out of sandbox

[languid kayak]

I was going through these today 😄 Cleaning some old backlocks that I never made my mind about.

BTW, you asked about the old traits back in the day and the same goes to Salesman, I'd personally keep them myself, they don't seem like high mainteneance and maybe one day in long distant future I can actuall go through old zomboid versions and add all the historical info that's missing (old icons, old trait descriptions) etc. so I'd keep Salesman too.

[proud cobalt]

But it adds no value to the wiki, and has no references that it will actually be added. Maybe we need an archive mbox that just says This article has been archived for historical wiki purposes that can be put on old articles and files?

Can automatically add to a category and have description Please do not mark this page for deletion without discussion

That would satisfy me, that way at least its not bringing down the average quality of the current wiki

[languid kayak]

Also, I guess I can remove these for now?
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:TIS_logo_official_bg.png
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Reddit_logo_official_bg.png
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:X_logo_official_bg.png
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Discord_logo_official_bg.png

Can go back to the white icons eventually, but the white ones should do until then I guess (they aren't totally invisivle even on white citizen layout)

[proud cobalt]

Yeah np

Vail's been busy lately we still have some css to do on citizen before looking at default deployment

[languid kayak]

Well, if it'll be added then it'll be no sooner than after build 42; probably even after NPCs 😄

As far as linking, we have it mostly at:

• https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Moodles#Removed,_future,_or_unobtainable_moodles (I added sanity, would be nice to cover it too, there are videos about the unused content still present in the game)
• https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Traits#Removed/future_traits
• https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Occupation#Future_occupations (no Salesman, but the gift of the gab was apparently from it)

Anyway, I'll take a look at it later, we kinda have https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Obsolete but it serves similar purpose to https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Future too, just hard to say what is obsolete cut content and what is future content (future I'd like to cover, obsolete merge to the page that replaced it)

[proud cobalt]

What do you think of this? It keeps removalists (me) from marking things you want to keep

Template automatically changes based on the article type like other Mboxes

[proud cobalt]

I have to get back to skills, and finish occupations. I burnt myself out on it doing like a hundred in a day

[proud cobalt]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Archive

[languid kayak]

you mean the mbox? I have to see what do you mean bit if it helps you, sure. And 100 of skills/trait/occupations that is?

[dusk yew]

stub pages no longer in triple digits- it absolutely will not last but we take the temporary milestones where we can get them

also @languid kayak , know you said this was on the backburner, but just so I dont forget: found a few more catagories without body location graphics. I said screw it and put them in anyway, so if/when they get resolved they'll just autoupdate on their respective articles. They're body locations (Fullsuit), (Dress), and (UnderwearExtra1), respectively.

going to try to knock all the clothing entries out of stubs since those are the ones where at least I know what's needed, but we'll see

[proud cobalt]

That's great. Nice job

[quartz bear]

where's the page with all red hyperlinks in one place?

I forgot how MediaWiki works

[lucid junco]

Good morning nerds

[robust latch]

Bruh. Good afternoon

[languid kayak]

I'll probably reutilize them again anyway, but I can't get myself to create a body part template 😄 The body parts are totally different from body location so that probably leads to confusion in some articles

Though if you added them, maybe now they aren't that terribly wrong lol

(although things like underwear doesn't protect any part even a tiny bit, they are just easthetics, no effect on gameplay whatsoever except a tiny bit of encumbrance)

[languid kayak]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:SpecialPages list it all, but I think you mean this one https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:WantedPages – keep in mind it lists all the language ones though and no easy way to filter them out yet (maybe with translate extension/MediaWiki language extension bundle there will, not sure)

There's also https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:WantedCategories as well as https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:WantedTemplates and https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:WantedFiles

I've been taking a look at https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Archive looks nice 👀. Can be used for https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Main_Page_Screenshot

I've been thinking whether we'll need https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Obsolete though? Pinging @proud cobalt for thoughts 🤔

[proud cobalt]

Yeah i think they serve two different purposes. Obsolete is for items that have been removed from the game where archive is to preserve a page usually for historical purposes, or because we dont want to remove it right now

[languid kayak]

I actually removed a bunch of those that aren't present in code following your crafting code changes as they were hard to maintain 😄

Though OTOH I'd love to keep the traits and perks that are in game files, I guess I'm contradicting myself on that sometimes lol

I did upload this https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Prof_Salesman.png for salesman as it's still present in 41.78.16

I actually didn't realize we had page for Salesman 😄 And that was before occupation splitting too

[proud cobalt]

Yeah i think it comes back to the decision that we arent going to maintain or add item histories to articles at least right now

I noticed it in febuary thats why when i marked it for deletion

No content changes since 2011

It has been a future occupation for 13 years

[languid kayak]

I'd love to at one point, though not sure how capable we are 😩.

Unless the influx of build 42 players would also cause new valuable editing force, though it's still huge how far we'd come 😄

Speaking of removals, I took a look at https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:UnusedFiles as I also have some unused trait icons uploaded there and stumbled on this one https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:-Users-lina-Downloads-Barg-N-Clothes.jpg – I guess it's best to remove?

I think it was planned to be used for Barg N Clothes judging by https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:Contributions/IndiePz1027 and Vibrance just categorized it as a screenshot, but I don't think we need it really? Pinging @naive imp, I'll mark it as potential remove till then

browsing the recent changes and seeing https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=HottieZ&curid=16917&diff=332623&oldid=329945 (a good change! No longer a stub with distrubtion filled indeed), I guess we don't need textual description following the distribution table? I've found myself removing them in the past, but asking you guys what you think.

Pinging @proud cobalt @dusk yew and @digital helm for opinion, but anyone's feel free to comment 👀

[proud cobalt]

For the majority i say remove them. Unless they add something extra (E.g. story spawns), but in regards to this one i like it

I did just fix the wording under the distro table though

[languid kayak]

Yeah, the story spawns are something we've been just recently tackling 😄 Knowing it's in java and not lua may actually make some things we considered unobtainable actually obtainable 😄 I was surprised finding Doodles on regular gameplay lol

[proud cobalt]

@robust latch Here are the updated files for discs and VHS please use these now and include the bot flag

[robust latch]

include the bot flag too? ok

I ll change the script

[proud cobalt]

Yeah please, its for updating it automatically in the future

[robust latch]

Okey dokey

I think home vhs's are the single exception for not adding the distribution explanation

There is only one of each in the entire world of Zomboid

[proud cobalt]

Oh if its inside the template it will get wiped every build update

[robust latch]

Can it somehow ignore the aricles in home vhs category

[proud cobalt]

I'll put it in my todo, you'll just have to update them manually

[robust latch]

For now its no biggie, but once we deploy more than 100 home vhs tapes its going to be counterproductive to revert every single one everytime there is a distribution update. So it is what it is atm.,

[languid kayak]

Speaking of which, I'm sure mannequins are in game, this note says they're not? https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Mannequin#Distribution

scarecrows*

[proud cobalt]

#pzwiki_editing message

Thats how i interperated your message, i couldnt figure out how to get one

[languid kayak]

Ah, I missed the details, sorry. Anyway, ffmpeg should be fine though I used cwebp for that, webp should give tangible gains from pngs, and are fast to convert, so should work relatively fine. As far as AVIF goes, the only gains are apparently to lossy images and we don't have much (actually the zomboid maps are internally lossy webp, back when I tested AVIF had a minor gain, but less than JPEG anyway, so not worth IMO. Not sure I linked it but this is relevant https://cloudinary.com/blog/jpeg-xl-and-the-pareto-front

oh nvm, I see a message below 😄

[proud cobalt]

How tangible? I could get it going pretty quick i think if webp is ready to go

[languid kayak]

But yeah, I guess I wasn't clear enough 😛 The mannequins in the tile format were only present in the old versions.

By the time skeletons and scarecrows were added they only exist as a 3D model and they can be found (though skeleton isn't a container)

[languid kayak]

The gains? You could try optimizing some existing PNGs, though I can't find any documentation on how ffmpeg handles webp 🤔

cwebp -lossless -q 100 -m 6 Lighting_indoor_01_0.png -o Lighting_indoor_01_0.webp 374 bytes vs 474 bytes (and much faster than zopfli, for larger files it takes hours). All lossless

[proud cobalt]

png = 4.852KB webp = 2.506KB

Completely lossless

[proud cobalt]

So now i have 7500 images optimised... should i just upload these? probably not right?

[languid kayak]

you can test one if it works fine :ok_hand:

[proud cobalt]

Oh i cant even upload one, msupload and upload file pages dont permit it @restive adder

WebP

[restive adder]

What happens when you try? Exact error message please!

[proud cobalt]

Np

[restive adder]

try again now

[proud cobalt]

Both accept it now, but it doesn't see webp as an image so no preview or insert image button from msupload, but displays properly on pages.

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Druglab.webp
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/User:Calvy/sandbox3

Is it possible to bypass this warning? Or could you give the bot access to upload images via api?

[lucid junco]

My png's are in need of optimizing😅

Because what is the best way to get a good looking photo of the location? To literally screenshot them in pz map :P

[restive adder]

There isn't a way to disable warnings that I know of.. and logged in api users should be able to upload files afaik

[lucid junco]

Thankfully I can literally save the pics, instead of screenshotting them, but yeah, they take up 4-5 mb on average which is a lot if you think about it.

[lucid junco]

Hey, had you given logo dups to @proud cobalt? He had asked for them at one point to remake every logo in wiki

[proud cobalt]

It fails "Does not have required user right"

[restive adder]

This will have to wait for next week or later for me

[proud cobalt]

Np, i'll let you know if i get it done by then

[languid kayak]

we all do that :D. They are lossy webp so going through png is bigger but no further quality loss. An ideal way would be exportong and self-hosting pzmap images based on the game files

[languid kayak]

seems it was webm (the video), not webp (picture)

[proud cobalt]

The bot doesnt have move permissions either

[dusk yew]

I’m with calvy, most can go, this one seems funny. I’ve been getting rid of any building descriptions and replacing them with npc sections, but other text minus npc or special story spawns seems like bloat

Glad this article in particular is complete cause I may or may not have convinced a friend to play and then razzed them when we found a hottiez because I thought it was a mod cause I’d never actually run into one in all my playing and we got one the first time they hosted with their mod pack

“Come educate yourself at the freshly updated Project Zomboid wiki, never jokingly accuse your friends of downloading a porno mag mod again!”

[sleek elk]

Is the ability to add a Table of Contents disabled or am I just stupid?

I tried __TOC__ and __FORCETOC__ and neither seems to do anything

[quartz bear]

And all of it is Russian mm awesome

[sleek elk]

nvm confirmed I'm an idiot. It's on the left instead of in the actual article

[sleek elk]

Are there any generic/standard icons for the wiki like ⚠️ or something to draw attention to an important item/instruction?

[robust latch]

There is this https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Note but what exactly do you want to use it for?

[sleek elk]

@languid kayak not sure if it's because I'm new but I'm getting this when I try to hit 'Save page' on my Discord Integration page. Hope you don't mind figured I'd try a quick ping here before emailing.

I didn't do anything weird I just wrote the article, previewed it a bunch without issue, then hit 'Save page' when I was sastified it looked good.

[restive adder]

Please follow the instructions in the error message!

The spam filter is good, but does catch people when it shouldn't from time to time. If you email me with the details, I can train it

[sleek elk]

I'll do that now, just was gonna check real quick because Faalagorn and I had specifically discussed making this page previously.

I do use a VPN idk if that's a known issue

[restive adder]

You might be able to click back and keep your work, v or I might be able to pull it from the spam filter. Will try and check tomorrow or next week

[sleek elk]

Even if I have to re-post it that's fine, I wrote the article in Notepad++ and just did a paste/preview each time I needed to check something, so I have a backup of the final version of what I wanted to post.

[restive adder]

That's good, sorry for the delay. Should be able to boop the filter once I'm at my laptop tomorrow

[sleek elk]

No worries! I was the one who did an end-run around the instructions so it's more on me than you anyway haha

Also just to note the error doesn't actually clear the text box, so it's not like if you click save and get spam detected you lose your work

Unless you then navigate off the page

So here's a question we should probably be kicking around as wiki contributors;

Most of the wiki content that is build specific is written for Build 41, very little seems to predate it which makes sense because no one is really playing on Build 40 anyway. However given how much the mechanics are changing in 42, and the likely time gap before popular mods fully work on 42, there's probably going to be a good amount of time where people are still playing on 41 even aftere full release of 42.

So the question is, do we replace, append, or fork?

Replace: like it says on the tin. Anything that changed in Build 42 we delete the old 41 info and replace it with the new info.

Append: articles where parts are specific to Build 41 get that section split into a "Build 41" subsection which is unchanged, and a "Build 42" subsection which describes the new mechanic

Fork: Existing articles that are specific to Build 41 get (Build 41) appended to their title and a new article is written off of it with (Build 42) appended.

My personal thinking is that we do a hybrid of append and fork, append when it's a minor change like, say a weapon does a little more damage now, fork when it's a major mechanics change like the anticipated changes to Skills and Occupations where very little from Build 41 will be truly relevant.

Just throwing it out there for everyone to mull over as before we know it it'll be time to make and execute on a concrete decision

[proud cobalt]

Replace, the wiki should have the most up to date official information even during IWBUMS

[sleek elk]

Is it really best to leave anyone who doesn't wanna play IWBUMS or just prefers Build 42 SOL though?

[proud cobalt]

Yes

[lucid junco]

Good morning nerds

[proud cobalt]

Good afternoon

[lucid junco]

Can anyone tell what affects radio/tv signal clarity? Ive previously thought that its affected by weather, radio type(Walkie talkie, radio, Ham radio) and how far are you from the source. But after a bit of testing, it feels like the weather is the only one that actually matters.

[proud cobalt]

@languid kayak I've done a blitz on finding tables that have been made by the script but arent used on the wiki. There were about 350 and now 126. Most are movable tiles. So in saying that, how do you want to handle those? They don't have articles yet, and dumping them on the tiles page seems wrong.

(Sorted)

[sleek elk]

What's your reasoning for completely deleting Build 41 info instead of forking/"archiving" it, if you don't mind me asking?

[proud cobalt]

I dont know what you mean by completely deleting. Updating outdated information is the point of the wiki

[sleek elk]

I mean what I said? You're saying we should remove anything Build 41 related so it's no longer available, and ONLY have Build 42 info as quickly as possible when Build 42 drops. To me this would seem to screw over anyone still on Build 41 so I'm wondering what the positive is of no longer having that old info available.

I think we should at least for a while have both so people still on Build 41 aren't SOL

[proud cobalt]

Lets use the article 'Axe' as an arbitrary example.
B42 comes out, and its attack speed has changed from 1 to 1.2
Why wouldn't we change its attack speed from 1 to 1.2? Because someone happens to still be playing an old version?

Imagine if every update had its own axe article. It would be mayhem. There were hundreds of B41 updates

[sleek elk]

Why would I imagine doing that when all I'm saying we should do is keep the B41 data as a fork or separate item for a limited amount of time while players are still heavily playing it?

It really feels like you're not engaging with what I've actually suggested or the reasons I gave as to why I'm suggesting it...

[proud cobalt]

I don't see any value in at hosting outdated information "even after the full release of 42".
The fork idea involves renaming one page, then creating a new page, then at an arbitrary time in the future deleting the first page and potentially changing the name of the second.

B41 was the biggest update the game has ever received. It took over 2 years to get every page up to B41. B42 is going to be even bigger, and you want to double the workload to cater to people who are playing on an outdated version

[sleek elk]

On what planet is editing a copy of document twice the work of editing the original? I'm gonna drop the topic, whatever if you have different thoughts on the best course of action but if you can't even honestly engage with what others are saying...

[proud cobalt]

I don't know why you feel the need to say i'm not engaging with what you're saying. Please correct me if this is not the system you are suggesting.
Current system:
Edit 'Axe' page
Save

Proposed system:
Move 'Axe' to 'Axe (Build 41)'
Create 'Axe (Build 42)', copy the information from the original page, then edit it to be up to date with B42
Redirect 'Axe' to 'Axe (Build 42)'
At an arbitrary time in the future delete 'Axe (Build 41) and rename 'Axe (Build 42)' to 'Axe'

[sleek elk]

Not even close, but I'd like to drop this topic because I'm becoming frustrated.

[naive imp]

Have to agree with @proud cobalt here. We'd have to maintain both pages which would be a lot of work on top of getting all the new content up. We're a wiki with a very small team for how big the game is. We have to work in the most efficient way possible to get the most possible work done.

Like Calvy mentioned, updating to build 41 alone took almost two years. It's not like all the content is just going to be replaced overnight.

While I do think forking or archiving stuff is a great idea on paper, in practice the idea will likely falter as now we're splitting articles that may unintentionally make the articles more difficult to navigate for some readers.

At the end of the day, all versions of all articles are viewable, as it's a function built into MediaWiki via the "view history" function. They can always look at an older revision of the article, as there will be mboxes at the top of each page that will state if the article refers to IWBMS features and what exact version the page is updated towards.

Trust me, I understand what you're getting at. I personally will be playing all of my actual leisure, non-wiki purposes saves on build 41 still until 42 is stable because I love mods. However, we simply can't afford to wait ar extend the workload.

I hope this helps you understand.

[sleek elk]

I've said twice I want to drop this topic PLEASE do not respond to that request by pinging me back into it.

[quartz bear]

(barely)

when has cleantalk not been an annoyance

[languid kayak]

The Discord integration? I think it's great to document it though I wonder if it needs a new page or rather maybe include it in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Discord ? That page needs love anyway 😩 and is a part of an obscure task of https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Tasks#Editor_tasks (same with articles about otherp latforms)

[sleek elk]

"Discord" seemed to be an article about this discord server specifically rather than all things discord. Also the article I wrote includes setup instructions plus it's likely to become an even more complicated topic in 42

I'm not opposed to adding it to discord but it'd quintuple the length of the article even before B42

[languid kayak]

we had a similar situation during build 41, hopefully build 42 deployment will be smoother as build 41 took a while to get mp working.

It was a mix of append and generally being outdated, less than ideal, I think replacing is the best way, though maybe at least we can keep some important info in the history so at least people will know what changed by just looking at the history tab and not going through the patchlogs.

The history section was there on the oldest wiki pages, but no one really maintained them afterwards, maybe we will be able to pull it off if we finish ironing out other things on time.

TF2 wiki has it like that (automatically pulled whenever files are changed; something I've been eyeing too https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Scout#Update_history)

[languid kayak]

At worst, though not ideal, there's mediawiki version history too, though I'd want to have the history proper sooner or later 😄

[languid kayak]

Ideally, the moveables should have their own pages too, but will take me a while to split even the item ones 😄

[quartz bear]

Hm, how silly would it be to make a navigation box that would just refer you to the last version of the page which was written for game version x?

Using the wm commits

Or whatever they're called

I'm a git person

It'd be problematic for modular pages like HUD though

[languid kayak]

(maybe not all movables but at least some). You can try dumping them somewhere for now so they don't get lost, maybe at SYF subpage?

[sleek elk]

Yeah, a little flag or tag or icon that denotes a section or sentence as "New/changed in B42" could be a good way to go. Like maybe a custom tag that just appends a dashed underline and a like icon at the end of a line or sentence. Because then it's one single code change to get rid of when it's no longer needed

I just suspect the 41/42 overlap is going to be significantly bigger/longer than 40/41

[languid kayak]

oldid I think, though that wouldn't work really well, as you can't fork them as in git really (it's all lineral) and when a template changes things gets broken

[quartz bear]

am i the only one who thinks this is counterintuitive

why is red finished and green ongoing ☹️

[languid kayak]

too much work IMHO, the version notice is clear the page was updated to build 42 (IWBUMS will have separate numbers from non-IWBUMS I hope; though in build 41 they sometimes collided), so it's more like instructing people to be aware what version they are at and check history page for changes

[languid kayak]

we had that discussion before though I guess we didn't came to a conclusion 😄 Same on https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Tasks – can be changed if we come up with something else obviously

[languid kayak]

The problem with those pages is that they are rarely linked to and hard to find unless explicitly sent to someone 🤔

such as all kind of guides; the Survival Guide is rarely visited even, yet alone FAQ and Multiplayer FAQ

[quartz bear]

ironic

faq is rarely visited

😭 what is this icon

[sleek elk]

Bart Simpson specifically requested the opposite of this.

[quartz bear]

@languid kayak can you give me some kind of a layout for https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Well

I feel like the majority of the Plumbing section can go bye bye

I'm not sure whether the better idea is to make a screenshot or to rip the assets from the game

[sleek elk]

Is there a "disambiguation" feature? Maybe keep discord as is but rename it discord server/community, just "discord" redirects there but also provide disambiguation for discord integration et al

[quartz bear]

wow wtf

[languid kayak]

The page lacks the https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Infobox_tile, so it can actually replace the need for image altogether

The asset is here: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Well.png

The plumbing is indeed not really related to the page.

I guess it should be reworked as a part of https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Project_Seat_Yourself_Furniture really though that's on backburner for so long 😩

[quartz bear]

that's so stupidly technical

why not at least have the cute animated icons

[languid kayak]

The Discord page at it current state has to be reworked anyway 😄

[proud cobalt]

Placeholder

[quartz bear]

this feels too intentional to be a placeholder

i think it should stay

[proud cobalt]

I picked it because i liked how stupid it was. I wouldn't mind it staying

[quartz bear]

it is indeed stupid

well

it's funny as fuck

[proud cobalt]

Havn't gotten to it yet

[quartz bear]

+1 to the person who added disorganized to the calc

i forgot that thing existed

[languid kayak]

It'd be vail 🙂

[quartz bear]

Do I really need this?

You can't take a Well as an ingame item so you can't really place it

I haven't done pzwiki editing for ages

[languid kayak]

I think all parameters are optional; also keep in mind that this infobox never got proper attention yet

[quartz bear]

they are

I know that

except Category... smh

[languid kayak]

We had some discussion (not sure if it was here or my DM with Vaileasys), that I'd like to add some properties to the infobox, though it will take a while until I get there, unless someone beats me to it 😛

In https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Project_Seat_Yourself_Furniture#Job_board

Add missing parameters for tiles (ID, thumpable, storage types (it's in comments), half-tile, can be gone through, hanging etc.).

[quartz bear]

wait

was i working on the water dispenser page

i think i wasnt

nevermind i was

the first commit on this page

[restive adder]

Its positive to *false positive ratio is like, 50:1.. it is saving the wiki editors a significant account of effort cleaning up after spammers

Just cos you see the occasional false positive doesn't mean you see the flood of positive hits it's protecting the wiki from!

[languid kayak]

We had like maybe 2 or 3 spammers I had to manually ban for the whole year; looking at wiki history there was literally hundreds back then lol

So yeah, I say it's doing its job fine 😄

[restive adder]

Ping me if you see spammers? So I can train it on positives 🙂

[languid kayak]

Well, maybe it was more than three I had to block 😄 Though one was banned by Vail. For some it's diffs to existing pages, for other you'd have to check deleted contributions

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:Contributions/Rasa123 10 February
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:Contributions/Marlon_Morton 25 January
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:Contributions/Signicolor 3 January
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:Contributions/Marcel41 1 December 2023
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:Contributions/Worldpassport 23 November 2023
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:Contributions/CollinOShanassy 25 October 2023
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:Contributions/Yhdj67 13 February 2023

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:Contributions/Yhdjf56767 this one was the one you blocked on 13 October 2022, so that marks all the bots we had 😄

[quartz bear]

No changes were found matching these criteria.

[languid kayak]

Yeah, that's because the pages they created were removed (obvious spams, advertising Google Play APKs or links to some drug pages)

[restive adder]

Too long ago now, can only train in the last couple weeks, delete data for gdpr so cleantalks not retaining stuff it doesn't need to

My bad, should have said to tell me!

[quartz bear]

well, now you did

[restive adder]

If you see people complaining about their edits being blocked, please do ask them to follow the instructions in the error message! I can only train cleantalk on what I know about

[quartz bear]

what's the latest coolest way to rip item icons from the game in form of, well, icons and not spritesheets

or did absolutely nothing change since build 40

[languid kayak]

TileZed, but we have them all uploaded

See https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Item_list for a list though it doesn't list IconsForTexture and Rotten/Cooked/Overdone/Burnthttps://pzwiki.net/wiki/Scripts_guide/Item_Script_Parameters/Icon

There are some obsolete/unused ones that doesn't belong to an item.

Some items are erroneously wrong size in the game, see here https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Help:Style_guide#File_dimensions

I'm not sure I uploaded the icons that are in the game folder though (some radio ones maybe), though not sure if they are duplicated or not.

They are all optimized with zopfli by me back then, but we may change to webp since it's smaller 😛

[lucid junco]

@languid kayak @naive imp is there an up to date game map of the area/locations name?

Im mainly asking because of the area in between west point bridge and Louisville(circle on the screenshot)

I know there is a Valley station, but nothing else

[quartz bear]

hopefully it's all cached by cloudlfare cdn

what's a varnish

[languid kayak]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varnish_(software) ?

[quartz bear]

i see

[quartz bear]

😭

[lucid junco]

Why are there 4 identical bleach bottles

[proud cobalt]

Hover over the icons

[lucid junco]

Thats really excessive :P

They are literally identical, so why not just have two icons?

Mayo is looking fine with just two icons

[proud cobalt]

I think its fine with 2

Even 1 if theyre the same

[naive imp]

All that is considered Valley Station. It's like Doe Valley pretty loosely defined

I'm working on that area so I should be able to get it all done soon, just gotta finish up Crossroads Mall and double check all the locations around there

[languid kayak]

The icons, models and names are sometimes slightly different for normal/empty/water/gas 🤔. Maybe with the new liquid system things will be better, right now the water containers are a little mess sadly :/

Anyway <@&1205891296565268520> new monthly summary for April 2024 is up! Happy reading, was a fruitful month! https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:News#April_2024(5_May_2024)

[proud cobalt]

[lucid junco]

Look ma Im on tv 😄

[rigid zodiac]

Skibidi toilet sigma

[languid kayak]

Beeing on TV never ends well in PZ lore 😄

[idle wing]

i agree

[lucid junco]

This time they arent, for bleach every model and icon stays the same

Sad?

[languid kayak]

might be an error

and yeah, for bottles it's not looked through :/

[lucid junco]

I think everyone would notice if sadness from being around the corpses :P

[proud cobalt]

We hit 1 million unique visitors in April alone
1 Million unique visitors in a month is crazy

[lucid junco]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Bleach_SuicideSpawn.jpg Thats a very outdated pic

[proud cobalt]

.jpg

[quartz bear]

@restive adder @digital helm is there a way to configure user permissions in a way that would allow removal of pages under their own user profiles, e.g. User:Alluseri/Test1

I feel like I asked this inb4

[proud cobalt]

They've had 500 edits in 4 hours

[languid kayak]

Friendly reminder this channel is for discussing pzwiki editing, occasional meme is fine, but for spamming with irrelevant images it's not the right spot

[loud schooner]

there are extensions that do it but not in native mediawiki

iirc

[languid kayak]

If you want any of your pages removed till then, just ping me here 🙂

(and not sure about that, never researched it really)

[robust latch]

Where do you check that?

[sleek elk]

So, Discord page broken up into like

Discord integration section
   Overview subsection 
   Setup subsection
Some other yet to be determined section```
Rather than like

Discord article describing the community, *mentions* the integration and links to the detailed article?

I'm good with doing that just wanna confirm we're thinking the same thing

[proud cobalt]

It was a quote from the fallout wiki not sure

[languid kayak]

Yeah, it was a direct quote from @past glacier herself, but not sure if it's accurate as I didn't really fact-check it before copying and pasting verbatim 😄

Might be some misinterpretation/mislabeling though, here are the stats for both of us

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:Statistics
https://fallout.wiki/wiki/Special:Statistics

Though it's just the editing stats, not the actual visitor ones

[languid kayak]

Seems fine, I'll be taking a deeper look no matter what you do later, so don't worry about messing something up 🙂

Also, the Discord Integration is getting a revamp in the build 42, I think I mentioned it, but not sure anymore 😄

[sleek elk]

My article has a "Future State (Build 42)" section summarizing the anticipated updates

[past glacier]

Here’s the fact check

Our normal views are not that high but the TV show came out and shot it through the roof!!

[past glacier]

I know it’s wild. I’m happy but at the same time our host wasn’t set up for it so we crashed a few times and costs went way up

[languid kayak]

🤞 the same will happens to us without issues when b42 hits 😄

2024™

[past glacier]

Without issues yea exactly! Problem with fallout is I just wasn’t prepared, but you will be!!

[languid kayak]

All up to Kirrus our sysadmin wizard 😄 But I'm pretty sure he is

[lucid junco]

Just a casual 5x increase in visitors, nothing unusual

[past glacier]

I know RIGHT

[quartz bear]

Cloudflare save us all.

[lucid junco]

Lets hope that b42 update comes up a bit after that explosion, or pz wiki servers will have a resonance cascade

[quartz bear]

Just lock the registration temporarily

That's the weak point

All pages are cached by Cloudflare and Varnish so it shouldn't be that much of an issue

Assuming... They got the caching setup properly

For unregistered users

[languid kayak]

I think unregistered are more cached than registered ones

[quartz bear]

nope

[languid kayak]

so yea

[quartz bear]

dynamic

💀

so cloudflare is just here for antiddos

and for caching we pray to varnish

[sleek elk]

Whatcha think? https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Discord

[restive adder]

Easier to cache pages at varnish, gives us more control. Media's the bandwidth problem

Can cache all logged out at cloudflare, have tried that before, but have run into problems with it not tracking users properly and giving people each other's cookies

[mortal chasm]

.png

[languid kayak]

Okay, I remade https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Salesman into a proper page, hopefully 👀 utilizing your template @proud cobalt. Do you have plans to get back to occupation anytime soon @proud cobalt? Since all are heavy stubs now. All the icons are in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Occupation_icons in case you want to get back to it (the old icons could be added to gallery)

The best list of the old occupation would be https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Player/fr I guess (I didn't dig old pages from that time though), seems Salesman was scrapped in the beginning

https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Player&oldid=16752 this is relevant, but different

[sleek elk]

There is something extremely amusing about following the existing template but every section basically says

Oooh I didn't realize you could do mboxes in-line, thanks whoever added "Future feature" to the discord updates

[digital helm]

There's an extension for it https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:DeleteUserPages but It's simple enough to just add {{deletion}} or ping an admin here

[digital helm]

looks great!

[digital helm]

I only did a couple of them way back then. I was also recreating a lot of them, which was even more work. Not entirely sure what you're asking. I just stitched the tiles together and warped the perspective.

(sorry for late replies, been very sick)

[proud cobalt]

Yeah I do plan on it. That'll be the next thing I do

[proud cobalt]

Yeah was just wondering if you had the stitched together versions still

[proud cobalt]

No troubles, hope you're doing better

[digital helm]

oh, nah. There were only a couple anyway

[proud cobalt]

This is abandoned now 😂

[proud cobalt]

All good

[digital helm]

why? What was wrong with it?

[proud cobalt]

So much 😂 it was doing my head in

[digital helm]

same reason I abandoned similar

[proud cobalt]

Yeah lol, I'm waiting to see if we can get official ones from kirrus

[languid kayak]

Yeah, might not be worked it, but if it worked™ even poorly you can dump the code somewhere for safekeeping (though I suspect it's nothing you'd want to maintain xD)

[proud cobalt]

No it just doesnt work lol

Like at all

It was very proof of concept only worked on those files

I may look at it agian one day, but just going to wait to see if we can get official first. That would be the highest quality

[languid kayak]

Takind deeper look at the list now; seems it's wrong ID for https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Bowling_Shoes

And one is https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Short_Sleeve_Shirt

[proud cobalt]

Yep it was wrong when the bot first did it

https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Bowling_Shoes&diff=218485&oldid=217001

Finishing off occupations now then will update

[proud cobalt]

Ok these two are fixed

[languid kayak]

Base.Hat_PeakedCapArmy is on https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Items but links to beret, so I guess should be split

[proud cobalt]

Could just be added here https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Beret#Variants

[languid kayak]

Can as a stopgap, we can split them later, though I think they have different values?

[proud cobalt]

I'd have to look, dont think i've ever seen Hat_PeakedCapArmy before

[languid kayak]

so yeah, different 😄

[proud cobalt]

Maybe ill make a new one quickly (later) unless you beat me to it

[languid kayak]

Though clothing are all over the place, as in stats are not consistent and sane

[languid kayak]

I probably won't 😄 I'm slow and get distracted easily

I wonder what FishingLure is; I thought it's https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Fishing_Tackle

Can't check here though, I'd have to install game, assuming it'd even run fine (old laptop)

Earring_LoopLrg_Silver is part of https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Earrings – the accessories were quickly created before we went into detail, so should be split as you marked, yeah

[proud cobalt]

    {
        DisplayCategory = Fishing,
        Type                =            Normal,
        DisplayName            =            Fishing Tackle,
        Icon                =            FishingTackle,
        Weight                =            0.1,
        FishingLure         =           true,
        Tooltip = Tooltip_FishingTackle,
        SurvivalGear = TRUE,
        WorldStaticModel = FishingTackle,
    }``` Looks like its a tag?

[languid kayak]

oh, so the script picked it as name?

There's also some entries missing on https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Belly_Button_Ring though this page's crowded too

And bags are part of https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Duffel_Bag#Variants – they are undistinguishable in regular game if you don't pinpoint where they come from other than colors (but a regular one can be any color)

The AmmoStraps_Bullets and AmmoStraps_Shells are already there https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Shells_Bandolier and https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Bullets_Bandolier

[proud cobalt]

I think on pages like this distribution needs to go just above code like you suggested. Its a temporary solution but a solution nonetheless

[proud cobalt]

The script finds both an item called AmmoStrap and AmmoStraps but i can only find AmmoStrap in the scripts files

[restive adder]

Re the icons from the Devs;

if they are fine with isometric tiles then all signs are in the tilesets

[languid kayak]

Pinging @proud cobalt for that, kinda confirms what I already knew, except some teases for a few logos back from the zomboid (Hentucky Herald was one), but I dubt we'll get it any time sooner than b42 release, assuming they will make it 😛

But it's nice for you to get back with this!

Calvy wanted to straighten the tiled ones, but they have to be done manually really, unless there's some easier stiching method I din't find 🤔

[proud cobalt]

Cheers, was hoping they had some from before the tiles are split

[restive adder]

How come?

[proud cobalt]

Direct art would be the highest quality, as well as not be isometric. Otherwise we have to hand stitch all of the signs together (About 2,500 images) and try to perspective warp them. It would also avoid this mess of transparency we have right now.

[frail fossil]

@proud cobalt we do not have the flat versions for a bunch of signs, especially for the earliest ones. They might get redone depending on dev needs, but i would not hold my breath for it... if using the tilesets png is too time consuming then i would recommend taking ingame screenshots at 100% zoom. and maybe wait for B42 as the new renderer will yield better results

[proud cobalt]

Ahh ok no problem. At least we have an answer. Thank you and @restive adder for following up

[lucid junco]

So manually stitching we go

[languid kayak]

I linked the video from the tutorial from Pohly here before, but couldn't find it at glance, sorry

nvm, found it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29ZULSS6gvk

[lucid junco]

I don't think that its useful when you have no material to stitch. I cant wrap my head around how to use tilezed/extract logos

[frail fossil]

if you are going the way of stitching back and unwarping all signs, i can give some recommendations for better results: - using PS would help for unwarping as recent versions enable AI resampling that will look better; it's under sampling, enhanced resize 2.0. - for transparency issues, some old signs for some reason have some inconsistency in the alpha channel, in order to fix that you can simply save the shape selection of the sign, and double (or triple) the sign layer, then erase outbounds to keep the correct AA on the selection.

[naive imp]

Thank you for being on top of this. 😀

[frail fossil]

nah, thank you guys for the wiki, it's very helpful 🙂

[naive imp]

I try. I saw all these in-game buildings with no articles and was like hell nah I gotta fix this lol

[proud cobalt]

Don't remember if this has the png files. I think it does
https://www.dropbox.com/s/dnirnjphryhtc8w/Tiles-Apr-06-2021.zip?e=1&dl=0

[naive imp]

It actually all started with me noticing an incorrect spawn for a pickup truck lol what a butterfly effect

[frail fossil]

i realize that from a visual standpoint the pages would look better with the flat logos, but as mentioned earlier, i think the ingame screenshot is a good compromise between quality and ease to do

[frail fossil]

it does, they are all under sign_XXX.pn g

[naive imp]

Tbh most of them are already flattened but some just look like ass lol

That's what we're tryna fix atm😀

[frail fossil]

we are adding a lot though

[proud cobalt]

@languid kayak Do you know where the tile information is in code form? Like the half tile stuff?

Or any TIS employees if they know 😂

[proud cobalt]

A former wiki editor did many of them by hand already but they're not available anymore and they added a low res white background to them all

[lucid junco]

Thanks for the advise

Ill try to do at least a few of them on holidays

[naive imp]

Lol we don't talk about Bruno 😂

[lucid junco]

@naive imp Louisville page makes my head spin tbh
It is hard to fact check and look for any missing businesses/ categorize them into regions since idk where one ends and other begins.

[proud cobalt]

No need to worry im perfect and didnt miss any

[proud cobalt]

Here you go

I did it street by street

Although it is using the old Location and category from before standardisation

[naive imp]

The scale makes it hard but Calvy seemed to have got em all

[lucid junco]

Thank you :>

[proud cobalt]

Only ones i missed were the ones inside the stadium afaik but theyre added now

I knew keeping that file would come in handy

[lucid junco]

Thats okay, not like every other page was standardized before it was made

[proud cobalt]

There were no louisville pages

To standardise lmao

[lucid junco]

That's why Im asking for spellchecks on pages I made/edited

[proud cobalt]

I kind of remember the regions i used, if you want help with one just ask

[lucid junco]

Should I merge chain buildings into one row?

[proud cobalt]

The borders are as straight forward as i could make them. But they're made up because theres no proof

[lucid junco]

Like there are 3 pile o crepe in center Louisville, on other pages I just added multiple coords to show that there are multiple buildings under the same name, but here they are listed individually

[proud cobalt]

Probably best to just newline the coords if theyre in the same district

[proud cobalt]

I always meant to come back to Louisville but never did

[lucid junco]

I can tell why

[proud cobalt]

It was a big project and i was still a very new editor. About 2 weeks into editing

[lucid junco]

Its 3 times as big as every other location page combined

Im already feeling a bit hesitant on doing it, but oh well, I should finish what Ive started
||Right, Table Stories?😅||

[naive imp]

I'm almost done with Valley Station so I should be able to get on it shortly as well

[quartz bear]

Updating town info must be so fucking lame lmaoo

[naive imp]

I don't know if you meant it that way, but when you put it like that it comes off as very disrespectful and rude.

We pour our valuable time and effort into these articles, and I really don't appreciate you directly mocking 90 percent of my contributions to this wiki.

Not cool. At all.

@languid kayak @digital helm

[quartz bear]

Not only you can't read but you also take it personally

[naive imp]

You directly mocked the project that I'm a leader of. I don't see what else you could have expected.

Nice ad hominem tho bro 👍

[naive imp]

@restive adder

[restive adder]

Leave it here, I've pinged the mods

[naive imp]

🫡

[sleek elk]

As an aside, while I enjoy all the pun names for everything, Pile o' Crepe is the only one that made me laugh out loud.

[languid kayak]

TileZed, again

[naive imp]

Yeah we don't talk about Bruno lol

[languid kayak]

(I forgot how to run it on Linux, but here's the WIne one)

[proud cobalt]

Yeah I found it in tilezed which led me to the files themselves. They're some kind of binary files I'm working on how to extract the data out of

[digital helm]

I'm moving the core infobox templates around. If anyone notices any issues, please let me know.

[proud cobalt]

Spoke to someone on reddit and they gave me this

They had already parsed it all into an excel file

I'm going to make a script that will automatically make tile articles, much like the home video ones. That way at the very least we have stubs. But going to try have them be as fleshed out as possible

[lucid junco]

Good morning nerds

[proud cobalt]

Good idea

[languid kayak]

Just FYI, I didn't get into removing the marked for deletion yet, but we mentioned them briefly that they should be. Might not do that immediately, might spend some less time on wiki this week, but if I do, it'll probably be the first thing I do, so if any of you spot anything still refering to the old tables marked for removal or want to move some transaltions, now's the time 😛

We have the tooltips backed up locally if someone would like to see old translations for languages lacking current translators, just in case though.

[languid kayak]

Speaking of Reddit, I spend less time there nowadays but yeah, folks on the PZ subreddit were great and they often aren't spending time in Discord either 😛 Was thinking of forwarding some wiki messages there, maybe a monthly blogs

[digital helm]

All the unused ones are deleted now 😄 and infobox and infobox/row are moved out of /sandbox. So the old infobox is no more

I'm looking at adding the tooltips now

[digital helm]

I like this idea. There's often a lot of valuable info not on the wiki. I don't go there much anymore. Could ask Kirrus or one of the other mods if you need it pinned

[languid kayak]

yeah, maybe some day :D It's been sitting on the back of my mind, but like I said, I don't even have the time to spend there as much as I had in the past back then 😄

[proud cobalt]

I do a weekly or so search of "wiki" to look for feedback

[digital helm]

I've just removed the 'gradient scrollbar' that the citizen skin adds to tables, as it was causing some issues. If anyone uses the citizen skin, interested if any feedback

[digital helm]

had to re-add it, with some adjustments. Should really only be issues with page width is set less than 1080px

[lucid junco]

Fuckin hell, Louisville page is a mess

Its completely unsorted

It definitely looks like someone had been tired after putting each business in, said "Fuck it" and dumped most of them into "Other" :P

Because this is awful

[proud cobalt]

There were set categories and everything else had to go into other

[lucid junco]

Id believe that, if they werent already in other categories

[proud cobalt]

Anything that didnt fit into these had to go into other to be standardised with the other articles. And the tables themselves are sortable, theyre in whatever order i found them

[lucid junco]

Like school was already in Services, Haidressers were in every category, City Hall was in Services in other towns even before standardization, so were churches

[proud cobalt]

Yeah there was no consistency lmao. It was whatever felt right

[lucid junco]

Thats what Im saying, absolutely no consistency, like it was abandoned 1/4th way in

Still, at least every buisness is in it, so I dont have to go and check

(But I still will)

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Louisville#Central_Louisville
Standardization started

https://map.projectzomboid.com/#12684x2281
Motel missing

It has no page

[proud cobalt]

Good spot

[lucid junco]

The snacks stall is missing

Where were you looking at?!

[proud cobalt]

Lol where is it

[lucid junco]

https://map.projectzomboid.com/#12555x1113

[proud cobalt]

Wait i did get this

Central louisville "Snacks" "Snack store"

[lucid junco]

Where was I looking?!

@proud cobalt Just to clarify, this is the border of the center louisville, right?

The pink line

[proud cobalt]

Found it @lucid junco

This is what i based my regions on

[lucid junco]

(Repost for convenience)

[proud cobalt]

I was looking for the original but couldnt find it. Knew i posted it here at some point

Actually its pretty high quality if you download it you can zoom in a fair bit

[lucid junco]

Either you had accidentally put some businesses in central, instead of east, or Central Louisville had won against East and annexed some territory :P

This complex is put in Central Louisville

[proud cobalt]

Yeah i likely didn't realise what side of the road it was on

[lucid junco]

Roughly it CL is like this

Got it

[proud cobalt]

Yeah theyre on the left side of that north south road

[lucid junco]

https://map.projectzomboid.com/#12459x1375
This bar is upsent

[lucid junco]

I see, indeed

[lucid junco]

I cant find it on the list

[proud cobalt]

Probably not on there, i wouldnt have thought that was a bar

[lucid junco]

1. https://map.projectzomboid.com/#12645x1362x6132
2. https://map.projectzomboid.com/#12580x1912
3. https://map.projectzomboid.com/#12570x1873
   These are missing

@proud cobalt Unless Im blind

[proud cobalt]

You can just add them my man idk what i missed it was months ago

[lucid junco]

Well, a lot tbh :P

Many Seahorse cafe's were just named Cafe

[proud cobalt]

If they can be proven as Seahorse go for it

[lucid junco]

I think they can be

[proud cobalt]

I was told that's not enough proof

Has to be a sign or roomdef

That was the rules for Louisville at least when i did it

[lucid junco]

There is no seahorse roomdef

And the March one ridge also doesnt have a sign, yet its still a part of the chain

[proud cobalt]

I wholeheartedly agree with you

[lucid junco]

Then fuck it, its a part of Seahorse unless it can be proved that it isnt

[lucid junco]

@naive imp Does Hardy Har Bar have a page? I can't find it on wiki

[proud cobalt]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/The_Hardy_Har_Bar

[lucid junco]

Its THE hardy har bar

aight

[naive imp]

Seems calvy had my back lol

[lucid junco]

Yoga Room is called Bakery

[proud cobalt]

Ive never seen so many TIS staff online

[naive imp]

That sure don't look like a Bakery to me

I do t think we can call that a Bakery there's yoga mats on the floor and not a single table or chair lol

[lucid junco]

Can you guess what shop it is?

The answer is fucking Zippee

[proud cobalt]

@languid kayak Work in progress, but this page was made entirely automatically

[lucid junco]

Ive been doing it for 5 hours and Im still not done

Fuckin hell

[lucid junco]

Seahorse Coffe is getting bigger and bigger

[lucid junco]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Louisville#Central_Louisville
A lot of buisnesses added, corrected multiple names, added in missing coords, removed duplicates.

Im fucking done

Holy shit it took me waaaay longer than I had expected

And Im still sure that there are some that Ive missed still

@naive imp Seahorse needs update on locations paragraph, since there are multiple undocumented locations within central louisville alone

So does the Zippee

[lucid junco]

I really hope that I haven't created duplicates of business

Because many of them were already there, thank to the @proud cobalt that I didn't need to do it entirely from scratch, but named inaccurate

[lucid junco]

@languid kayak Pls raise the template limit, 20 is not enough for churches

[lucid junco]

Its extremely quiet today

[lucid junco]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Ruined_Village
Page created

[languid kayak]

I think we can stretch for that, it counts as a sign kinda IMO

[languid kayak]

Which now I wonder if the is part of the name or a mistake 😄

I moved some wrong names in the past

[lucid junco]

Nevertheless, it has a zombies type, so it counts

(About seahorse cafe)

[languid kayak]

b42 release incoming, brace yourself!

[languid kayak]

sorry; was busy today 😄 But I'm always catching slowly eventually

[languid kayak]

yeah, noticed later lol

[lucid junco]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Louisville#Businesses
FUCKING DONE

Finally

Its almost 3 am

Valley station is all whats left

Thought as I said, Louisville central definitely still need to be checked to see if there are still some missing

After that, I think Ill at least try recreating every logo proper

[languid kayak]

huge task, you there are a few not converted, though I'm not sure whether you'd rather want to fix the ones without transparency 😄

[lucid junco]

Ill start with Riverside(my beloved) and see how tedious it is

If it is, then I guess every other business is out of luck :P

I hope that it would actually be a "five minutes in and out"

[languid kayak]

renamed it now btw 😛

[languid kayak]

not sure I replied or just emojied but looks nice! Would definitely help us get to speed with those pages

[lucid junco]

Its not worthy of the THE

[lucid junco]

@languid kayak

[digital helm]

This looks fantastic. I guess my only concern is a different page for each variant. I.e. one for all the different types of oven. Are we happy having a different page for each variant @languid kayak ? I guess this becomes more of an issue with things like tables and chairs

[digital helm]

@proud cobalt I've added more icons to be replaced if you want to do them. There's 183 total https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Tasks#Bot_tasks

[proud cobalt]

I've never heard anyone say they like riverside before

[proud cobalt]

At the moment it captures all the moveables because that's what was in the excel file. Realistically that covers 99% of the tiles people actually want to know about. The other ones being how to break through metal barriers on gun stores.

There's about 700 articles it can make right now, but I think I can get it up to 800. Not sure whether the best course of action is to get them on the wiki. I think the options are:

1: have the bot create each page and fill it with the content it has, so long as a page with that name doesn't exist already. Then manually mark any duplicates for Deletion.

2: Manually create the pages and copy paste the content into the page.

Personally I prefer 1. I think it would be faster and less vulnerable to human error. Each article has to be manually verified and updated by an editor anyway so can be marked for Deletion by that editor when they get to it.

Another thing to be aware of is how the game decides what a unique tile is. For example, the game counts "Large locker" "Military locker" and "Yellow locker" as three different tiles.

Thoughts @digital helm too.

[proud cobalt]

I should finish reading before I reply to messages

I think if we are covering tiles we should have a page for each tile. An 'Oven' page (currently we just have heat source as the generic page) is useful in its own right. But I think one page per tile.

[digital helm]

I guess I'm stuck in the mindset of maintenance and potential manhours needed to update pages that'll be mostly be identical. I'm happy with either though. Makes it far easier to specify any differences between variants

[proud cobalt]

I can't see the majority of tile pages changing much unless a total rework of cooking happens right? I feel it's mostly a one and done deal

[digital helm]

You're probably right. I think #1 btw, will be much quicker to do

[lucid junco]

Fuck, its not perfectly aligned

Hang on..

Here

@languid kayak The main issue with this is the blur that shear tool and manuall upscaling creates

While shear tool is mostly still sharp(screenshot from gimp)

Manual upscaling looks a bit blurry to me

While anything is better than this, Id like to get your opinion

Angled signs is highest quality, but it doent fits that well as logo

[lucid junco]

Idk about you, but for me it looks a bit scuffed

And I cant tell wether I had aligned them badly or its just the quirks of the interpolation

@digital helm Hey, does updating pics work properly?

[proud cobalt]

it does, you will have to wait for the cache to update after you replace a file

[lucid junco]

I see, thanks

[proud cobalt]

@digital helm @languid kayak Are we happy with this level of output? It will automatically be categorised into https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Movable_tiles and into https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Articles_requiring_editor_verification

[digital helm]

you mean the output on your sandbox? https://pzwiki.net/wiki/User:Calvy/sandbox
I think it's good and the categories are good.

[lucid junco]

@digital helm where did you get the logos?

Like a pharmahug one

It doesn't look like its from tileset

[proud cobalt]

yes forgot to link it

[digital helm]

I recreated most of the ones I did

[lucid junco]

I thought about it, they are too high quality to be from a tileset😄

[digital helm]

it's way too much work. especially with how many signs there are now

[lucid junco]

But I think thats the best quality logo can get

Ive tried out to shear some logos and the letters in them can become really crooked

[digital helm]

Just do what you can. There's so many logos and they take long enough to do already, without trying to make them all perfect

[proud cobalt]

This is now done and files are marked for deletion

[digital helm]

thank you

[languid kayak]

I don't mind, especially since as with clothing, it's not uncommon to find seemlingly the same item with widely different values 😛

Back in time (and I plan to get back to it when b42 hits), I reported such inconsistencies, though just some of the naming fixes made it, guess since it was easier (just nasko to pass it from gothub to the team along with the usual translation updates).

[languid kayak]

I think people tend like Riverside? I'm a long-time Muldraughian, just recently started in calp Rosewood with wife wanting to try the rosewood fire station 😄 (apparently it's a spawn point, so you can't make it safehouse without some admin magic)

[lucid junco]

It cant be called "The best town", but its one of the best ones for newbies, since its very sparse, so you can back up into lower density areas if something goes wrong. It doesnt have that much loot, but it offers huge opportunity to build a base/safehouse that is secluded and not so far from poi.

Its a go to if I play with high zed density

@languid kayak @naive imp Is there a map with regions of Valley station?

If not, I had came up with a rough idea of how it would be

1 - Central
2 - Western (Residential)
3 - Northern
4 - Crossroads mall
5 - Southern

Maybe add in 6 - eastern

[proud cobalt]

@languid kayak Are you happy with this level of detail so i can look at starting to deploy them?

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/User:Calvy/sandbox

[sleek elk]

Just spitballing, should the language in the Discord article about the PZWiki channel and how to search it be moved to "Editing for Beginners"? Strikes me as a "Wiki editing help" item moreso than a "Discord" item.

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Discord

Since y'know, the majority of users searching Discord on the Wiki are looking for information about the discord server or the integration, not information on how to get help on editing the wiki

I've been taking a few passes trying to make those parts feel cleaner and I'm starting to think they just don't belong in the main Discord article

[naive imp]

I disagree. I think it makes no sense to not mention the wiki editing part of the discord in the wiki itself

[sleek elk]

Yeah, I can see both sides of it. The more I mull it over I think maybe the PZWiki channel related stuff should be one section in the Discord article, rather than parts of multiple sections.