pzwiki_editing

[lucid junco]

Standardized names help search up things easier

Im curious if there will be a feature to change logo pics with theme change

I want to avoid this thing

Every other logos have transparent bg don't they

[languid kayak]

This, I guess the straight logos will be redone at one point of time; the current ones are not straightended enough and have bad transparency.

We have a guide on straightening them and exporting with tilezed, but they are loose on talk pages and need cleanups and bringing to main pages such as https://pzwiki.net/wiki/TileZed

The video by Pohly is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29ZULSS6gvk

[languid kayak]

Just in case, here's an example page (not pixel-aligned) with more than 1 image in infobox https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Muldraugh_Elementary/sandbox

Our infoboxes should get some tweaks though, as they rely on javascript now and without that (and in preview) it's not shown

Or here https://pzwiki.net/wiki/School_(Riverside)/sandbox

But the current multi-image implementaition in the location infobox is a bit lackluster, as the tooltips aren't supported

nah, just the images

[languid kayak]

btw minor nit, but maybe it should be "safe house" and not "safehouse"? Technically both are correct, but "safe house" seems to be more common spelling
https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=safehouse%2Csafe+house&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=en-2019&smoothing=3
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safe_house

There's currently both "safehouse" and "safe house" spellings used

[robust latch]

I think safehouse feels better.

Although in Turkish its seperate 😄

[languid kayak]

I felt that way, though I think I've been correctig them both ways 😄 LanguageTool picks "safehouse" as error

Currently there's 107 results for "safe house" on wiki https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?search="Safe+house"&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=all&fulltext=1 and 95 for "safehouse" https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?search="Safehouse"&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=all&fulltext=1

lua/shared/Translate/EN/News_EN.txt:5178:Added confirmation before releasing a safe house
lua/shared/Translate/EN/News_EN.txt:5346:Fixed when a non-owner player quits a safe house, other players also getting kicked.
lua/shared/Translate/EN/Sandbox_EN.txt:432: Sandbox_SurvivorHouseChance_tooltip = "Increase/decrease probability of discovering randomized safe houses on the map: either burnt out, containing loot stashes, dead survivor bodies etc.",

but this in multiplayer 😄

All the tooltips are also "safehouse"

oh well, gonna change it all to "safehouse" potential and then if we ever settle on something else and/or it changes in game, we can change it back.

That or I can wait for more feedback 😄 It all can be botted anyway, gonna add it to tasks on whatever we decide

[languid kayak]

Okay, I made https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Help:Boilerplate_location based on the https://pzwiki.net/wiki/User:ThinkDock1721/sandbox and existing pages; feel free to take a look @naive imp if I missed anything.

I didn't include the safehouse potential yet at all

[naive imp]

I wouldn't include it, as it's not supposed to be used by every building

[languid kayak]

the safehouse potential? Then it should be good to go 👌

(unless you spot anything; feel free to edit)

[naive imp]

Seems good to me! I don't see anything wrong with it

Thanks Faalagorn, you're a legend. Crazy to think that me editing a pickup truck page turned into all this lol

I'm happy to stay though 💚

[languid kayak]

haha 😄 Well we're all in the same boat, random guys doing random stuff staying in this 😄

[languid kayak]

btw, for those not up to speed, I went through all the locations, added all captions, removed all the useless periods, removed the video headers and added tooltips for the galleries that missed it with minor changes/renames along the way. All locations now unfold the header too.

Probably took more than needed especially as some changes could be made by bot, but at least I did get the occasion to go though all of these pagues manually lol

[languid kayak]

Also, you'll have to wait a day more at least for the project Ksilem 😄 Unless someone beats me with the project creation, I sidetracked too much this weekend 😛

[proud cobalt]

Safehouse to me makes more sense, it's a noun, whereas safe house is an adjective and then a noun.

[proud cobalt]

These distribution files are a nightmare, there's no consistency

[lucid junco]

Yea, wiki page is really lacking

It doesnt even have a link to the tilezed

And no at least basic steps to start

[languid kayak]

You mean regular/vehicle/foraging, or…?

huh, I just realized Irvington name's kinda confirmed now https://projectzomboid.com/blog/content/uploads/2022/12/irvington_14-1024x673.png 😛 Previous research was done before here: https://canary.discord.com/channels/136501320340209664/1195687717233770607

[lucid junco]

Its a b42 thing

[frail fossil]

Is this... Nurgburgring?

[robust latch]

I made some transcript format examples for the VHS tapes with back cover in here: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/The_Dog_Goblin

Let me know which is the best, or if you have a better format in mind please do share.

Or edit the page as Transcrip 4 and add your format for everyone to see

First one is honoring Fuberti's format

The other two i tried to utilize the template

Also, most importantly, @elder estuary has made a script to tremendously ease the process of adding texts for us.

[lucid junco]

Awesome

Absolutely no icon variations

Really good when you have to show that there are 4 different plates that can spawn

I either have to photoshop them to look distinct, or just say that there are 4 variants without showing them

[robust latch]

I think just say that there are 4 variants?

[lucid junco]

Yes, but its still underwhelming

Rand Next 0,5
Has only 3 items in the list?

[flat sun]

that just means 40% chance to spawn nothing

[lucid junco]

I see

So "20% to spawn each item, with 40% to spawn nothing"

[lucid junco]

Are they called every time it spaws food or only once per story?

How bout beverages?

[proud cobalt]

All of it lol

[proud cobalt]

Are there any experts on foraging here? Anyone that can explain how this file works. I can get the basics but like, what does bonusMonths itemSizeModifier etc do?

[dusk yew]

anybody know how the body location templates are made? {{Body location|body_location=Dress}} is looking like a common body location, but doesn't have a corresponding loadout

so all the dress or similar items have no body location or a {{Body location|body_location=Dress}} that yields a blank template

[lucid junco]

I a bit confused.. again

How can 3 functions share same var and still work

[lucid junco]

And how is it called, since there is only one instance of var 2 being called outside of these with int var2

[languid kayak]

The template is due to rework anyway :/ I noted it in tasks and in template, currently it confuses body location with body parts.

[dusk yew]

Fair enough! I’ll leave it be then, and maybe stick a “needs work” tag in their body location sections as a placeholder

[languid kayak]

The clothing is something I'd like to get back to soon™ though I get carried with usual duties then there's food too 😄

You can keep eye on https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Tasks as that's where most things are documented 😄

Speaking of which, should I know focus on updating these three boilerplates now:

• https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Help:Boilerplate_weapon
• https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Help:Boilerplate_clothing
• https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Help:Boilerplate_food
  Or do you guys thing that the https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Help:Boilerplate_item is enough and the rest should be covered by the infobox documentation?

Though these pages have headers that are exclusive to them, such as repairing for weapons, body location for clothing or evolved recipes for food

[languid kayak]

I rewrote the https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Help:Editing_for_beginners#Creating_a_new_page as it wasn't updated since we rolled the new header; ket me knows if you think something's still missing guys!

It might look a little bland/too much text to be beginner-firendly, so idk 🤔. @sleek elk you mentioned it last time; mind taking a look? Any suggestions? I'll try to take a look at other pages and places you suggested it might be visible, too.

You meant linking it in that page? https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Special:CreateAccount

[languid kayak]

Also updated the https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Help:Creating_a_new_page

[languid kayak]

Took me a while, but I finally got myself to have set up a https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Project_Lore – it's pretty barebones, but should be enough to cover the missing VHSes, CDs and Survivors for now and also serve a use for when build 42 comes or the bits we get 🙂

[languid kayak]

This is done now 🎉 Now, do we need each language variant for https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Version as well as https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Unknown_version seeing it's a maintenance category? Pinging @digital helm for this, currently just a few English pages are left and just in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Version_41

[languid kayak]

Well, did some catching up finally. Maybe I'll be able to get back into items to finally give a final push to the navboxes, items and boilerplates tasks, starting with weapons and https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Help:Boilerplate_weapon if we'll be going that way.

One more thing when it comes to the obsolete items, I think we should draw the line at when something is totally not present in the code (not even in obsolete tag), it should be merged to the existing pages. With that in mind, I'll probably clean up some of the forgotten/cluttering pages that are terrible to maintain in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Obsolete_items (or add some obsolete items).

TBF though, obsolete items are pretty much just the replacement for the 2 versions nowadays; I gotta see what happens when you try to spawn them in debug mode though 🤔

[digital helm]

Var2 gets overwritten each time.
It sets var2 as rand.next(0,4). If it's 0-3 it returns the value of that case. If it's 3 then var2 ALSO gets replaced by a new random number and returns the corresponding case. The order it runs is from top to bottom

I.e. you can replace and reuse the same variables once you no longer need its value

[proud cobalt]

Sneak peak

[lucid junco]

Now add in random building probabilities/j

[lucid junco]

Thanks both of you for an explanation @quartz bear@digital helm

[lucid junco]

Is.. this Gas 2 Go?

Wiki says it is, but there are no indications that it is

[lucid reef]

I wouldn't assume so, it doesn't use the gas 2 go tile pack apart from the gas pump area

[lucid junco]

Red tape isnt exclusive to gas 2 go

[lucid reef]

And the tiles for the pump are used in other gas stations that isn't gas 2 go

[lucid reef]

Yes but its the tile pack lol

[lucid junco]

Pretty much every station uses red tape

Those that do have concrete pump station

[lucid reef]

Hm I've only ever seen the gas 2 go pumps and wall tiles be used

Never concrete so that's interesting

Didn't know that was a thing

But again I would assume its not gas 2 go as there are no clear signs to point to it being g2g

[lucid junco]

The concrete ones are used here

[lucid junco]

There are more signs of it not belonging to gas 2 go :P

[lucid reef]

That's what I'm saying

Did I word it bad lol?

[lucid junco]

Nah

Anyway, should probably name it "Unnamed Gas Station(Doe Valley)"

[robust latch]

That can be Thunder Gas station

[lucid junco]

No it cant

Well, no signs that it is

[lucid junco]

Thunder Gas - green houses like shown here

[naive imp]

I vaguely remember seeing a zombie around there with a gas 2 go t shirt on after I killed it

But that may have been a different gas station

[lucid reef]

I think they just spawn at gas stations in general

That arnt fossoil or thunder gas

[robust latch]

What signs do indicate Thunder Gas Station?

[lucid reef]

Thunder gas logo

[naive imp]

Well no because thunder gas has their t shirts too. That's how I distinguished the no signage ones on the thunder gas page

[proud cobalt]

The username is dedication

[lucid junco]

Each Thunder Gas has a green building

[lucid reef]

Thanks lol

Ita not changes in uh like nearly a year

[robust latch]

what are the coordinates

[lucid junco]

Just like with every other chain

[robust latch]

i am still trying to find it on wiki lol

[lucid junco]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Thunder_Gas

Rosewood, Fallas Lake

West Point

[robust latch]

Coordinates of this?

[naive imp]

But the buildings on the map are color coded based on general type. I don't see how that could differentiate chains

[lucid junco]

The main building

[naive imp]

Ohhhh you posted the map picture and I got confused

[lucid junco]

Its wiki pic

Not related

[robust latch]

Not all Thunder Gas have the logo

[lucid junco]

Hold up..

5475x9711

[lucid reef]

Yeah, it's only one tile that faces in a single direction

So some can't

[lucid junco]

Why cant our character just.. turn around

[robust latch]

Its probably thunder gas

i am checking tho

[proud cobalt]

How dare you speak such nonsense

[lucid junco]

Every gas station has its unique look actually

[lucid junco]

There are no gas 2 go zeds on 16x pop

[naive imp]

Yeah thay may have been a different station. I vaguely remember one gas station being categorized like that so I thought it may have been that one

[lucid junco]

It doesnt belong to any of them

[robust latch]

Its Gas N More

https://map.projectzomboid.com/?#5421x5873

double snack shelves

red yellow outline but not over the top like fossoil

two phones

https://map.projectzomboid.com/?#3695x8497 this one also has double snack shelves

and only these two that are Gas N More, have 2 snack shelves

and 2 phones

[lucid junco]

Two phones are a regular occurrence

[robust latch]

martins essentials have 2 phones aswell but that march ridge

location

does not have double shelves for snacks

[lucid junco]

True

[robust latch]

Not that common

Thunder doesnt have it

[lucid junco]

Riverside fossoil has them

And rosewood busstop one

[robust latch]

Its definetely not fossoil or gas2go though

because those two have flashy shit on top * correction

[lucid junco]

True

But every gas n more is a wooden building with a proper roof

None of that concrete, brutalist shit

[robust latch]

ajhah

actually good point

they are wooden-like

even the ground beneath pumps are wooden

hmm

[lucid junco]

The walls are alike, but really differently themed

[robust latch]

maybe its an exception?

i mean if we were to consider being woodenlike is the primary variable, then i guess our location is martins essentials?

[lucid junco]

To put more salt on the wound, martins essentials also have double snacks and two phones

[robust latch]

they have two phones but

not two rectangular snack shelves no

they are generic

check gas n more shelves

both of em

[lucid junco]

The long ones?

[robust latch]

the tall ones ye

[lucid junco]

Im not so sure, to me every one of them has the around same interior

And it has roughly the same amount of similarities to both GasNMore and Essentials

[robust latch]

Martins essentials have different stripes though

like wayy different

[robust latch]

Its a non-wooden Gas N More if i had to bet

[lucid junco]

Id call its unnamed, not enough proof that its gas N more

On the same note..

How can you tell that its Gas 2 Go :P

[robust latch]

idk

i would have to look

[lucid junco]

There is literally no indication that its gas 2 go

Yet https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Gas_2_Go

Maybe it was said in one of the patch notes or something, but there is literally no evidence that its gas 2 go

[robust latch]

Yeah maybe keep it for the time being

Until you are sure its something else

I made up my mind with Gas N More 😄 whatchya think it is

if you had to guess

[lucid junco]

Independent :P

Like Gas or Ruby's

||Who tf names gas station GAS||

[robust latch]

Gas do seem like its owned by some random guy who is running that for 40 years

[robust latch]

Its a random dude, who had the oppurtunity to make a station imo

Like some old dog

Ruby doesnt have phones or the tall rectangular snack shalves that i mentioned

and its woody as fuck

[lucid junco]

I mean, every independent station is unlike others

So there is a chance that its an independent station

There are only 2 Gas Stations : Fossoil and gas station

Every other stations are mental disorders

It doesnt

However its listed

Imo, new section in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Gas_station should be added to account for an unnamed gas stations

[naive imp]

I'll get on it sometime today if you don't get to it first

[lucid junco]

I would have done it after finishing with "Unnamed gun store(Doe Valley)", but you can if you want to

But Im still waiting for others to yay or nay this idea

[quick sentinel]

Server up?

[naive imp]

That's why I mentioned unless you get around to it first 😀

[quick sentinel]

Ip?

[lucid junco]

Wrong chat bud

[quick sentinel]

Heard

[lucid junco]

Some? You mean only Ruby's?:P

Were they green?

If yes - its thunder's

Thunder's has two stations with bed

Its every building that is looking west 😄

Thats where every Unnamed X comes from

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Unnamed_gun_store(Doe_Valley)

Done

Unnamed_gun_store(Doe_Valley) my beloved

:)

Ive named it like other Unnamed gun stores

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Unnamed_gun_store_(Louisville)
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Unnamed_gun_store_2_(Louisville)

Shit

Ive named it Unnamed gun store(Doe Valley) not Unnamed gun store (Doe Valley)

I see

My bad

[proud cobalt]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:MovePage/Unnamed_gun_store(Doe_Valley)

Wikis are collaborative

[restive adder]

Cos noone's abused it so we haven't locked the move perms down

Apparently not! The only perm changes I've applied have been related to captchas

[robust latch]

Does anyone know if this distrubution table right or not? https://pzwiki.net/wiki/The_Dog_Goblin#Distribution

Also how do you approach making distribution tables anyway?

Where do you start, after opening procedural.distr lua, and typing in vhs_retail

[proud cobalt]

This is the new table, but im deploying them with the bot so dont worry about it right now. Tables have to be made with a script
https://github.com/CalvyPZ/pz-distribution-to-wikitable

https://tenor.com/view/fortnite-aura-take-the-l-dancing-loss-gif-21664886

[robust latch]

Alright, thanks.

[languid kayak]

gas stations can be checked in-game by using zombie clothing overlay in debug

[lucid junco]

Is it in rmb menu or f11?

[languid kayak]

I think it is locked only if you are overriting a page

[languid kayak]

f11, let me see

[languid kayak]

This one's Gas 2 Go

[lucid junco]

Thats.. So fucking ridiculous

[languid kayak]

the burnt one doesn't spawn any particular zombie type, but probably because it was burnt down

[lucid junco]

It looks nothing like gas 2 go..

[languid kayak]

I'd take it with a grain of salt though, the zombie spawns were most likely added aferrtwards unlike the mapper's idea (assuming it was trhought-out), and may change in the future

it will spawn zombies with gas 2 go outfit though 🤔

[lucid junco]

Check GAS and Ruby's pls

Maybe thats just oddity of an independent gas stations

[languid kayak]

you have ruby's coords?

GAS

[lucid junco]

Check this for both cords

[lucid junco]

https://tenor.com/view/homelander-the-boys-gif-26162796

Im gonna loose my fucking mind, it doesn't even closely resemble Gas 2 Go

The theme consistency is in shambles

[languid kayak]

If you are sure it's wrong, I guess it could be reported as a bug (which it might as well be), though no fixes till b42 for sure so may take a while to confirm 🤔

we can note that on wiki till then, too

[lucid junco]

We cant possibly know if its gas 2 go or not though

By theme - it isnt gas 2 go, not even slightest resemblance

I dont believe that devs would ruin theme consistency that much

But by code is a Gas 2 Go

[lucid junco]

Where can I do it?

[languid kayak]

https://theindiestone.com/forums/index.php?/forum/85-bug-reports/

[lucid junco]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Unnamed_camping_store_(Doe_Valley)

Page created, now without title error :P

[lucid junco]

https://theindiestone.com/forums/index.php?/topic/71065-innapropriatewrong-gas-station-type/

Done, now I can sleep peacefully :p

[languid kayak]

Can't see it for some reason, maybe it needs to get through moderation first though

btw, are we even sure this https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Outreach_Center is a real location? The tile may as well be wronly stiched, seeing the https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Center_park_logo.png was wrong – may as well be "Outreach" and "Center" signs

[lucid junco]

Yea, I just wrote it

[restive adder]

Posts from new accounts need to be verified by a mod because spammers are annoying, sorry. Someone will get to it soon

[lucid junco]

No big deal, not like we are in a hurry

[restive adder]

I approved it now, should show up shortly:)

[lucid junco]

Dont think that something horrible will happen if we dont get the answer whether its a gas 2 go or not

Maybe I should have included the burned one, but there is no shot that its a Gas2Go

It would have had at least a resemblance of the chain, and/or Gas 2 Go Zed type all around it

And Gas 2 Go (nor any other Gas Station in fact) doesn't have a Camping Store within it, unlike this one

[languid kayak]

the burnt one doesn't have any zed spawn set though

[lucid junco]

Yep

[languid kayak]

@proud cobalt I guess this approach is better than having one distribution similar to how code is hidden? Not saying it's wrong, just asking 😛 I guess it may be better with two separate headers anyway (beside me not lacking pages with too many items on them; I'll probably be doing some splits eventually anyway)

[lucid junco]

@languid kayak One more question, should notable locations with no name be called "Unnamed 'location' (Area)" or just "'location' (Area)"

Since there are both variations present in wiki

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Restaurant_(March_Ridge)
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Unnamed_restaurant_(Fallas_Lake)

[languid kayak]

Was just thinking about that too, I'd rather be in favor of skipping "Unnamed", pinging @naive imp for opinion on that

[naive imp]

Skip Unnamed. I was using it at first but then stopped I guess, literally only just now noticed lol

Thanks for pointing that out @lucid junco

[languid kayak]

Should think about something to avoid that pesky 2 here while at it https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Unnamed_gun_store_2_(Louisville)

like pointing to approx sublocation

[languid kayak]

Okay, I moved the pages, the only remaining is https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Unnamed_stores_(Riverside) and maybe some loose links

[languid kayak]

Okay, gonna go to sleep for the day, but I've started messing with the https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Items finally, starting with weapons and legend now – I briefly mentioned it in tasks and with Vail, but I want to replace the text with icons now that we have legends – anyone have idea for a nice icon for knockdown and knockback?

[proud cobalt]

This was the best balance between space saving and usability I came up with.

You could put both into the same togglebox, but that makws it inconsistent and much harder for the bot to update in future updates. It also adds another layer of friction for the user that just wants to know where they can find the item.

Also it looks much nicer in citizen 😂 it's not so wide

[lucid junco]

No big deal 😄

Should have asked it before creating unnamed gun store and unnamed camping store, but oh well

[lucid junco]

And the fallas lake with West point restaurants:p

Hey, is GAS station within Riverside outskirts or not?

Same for Tanglewood(CGE corp) and couple of small businesses near them

General Store, Bait & Tackle, Beef roundup and most importantly.. Public restroom

They are "Far west of the riverside", and funnily enough, have Riverside listed in their category

Yet none of them are present, nor acknowledged anywhere in the riverside page

Looks like an oversight to me, but maybe some wiki mastermind is planning to add them in as an outskirts of the upcoming city ;P

[naive imp]

When I took charge of locations and maps, literally every town was EXTREMELY out of date, with a lot of locations not having dedicated articles even. So I focused on the main buildings in city limits and planned to revisit some outskirts locations later

You can ask @languid kayak it was really bad when I first started

Did quite a bit in "livening up the place" so to speak

[lucid junco]

I can put them into the outskirts then

[naive imp]

That's fine. If anything I'll revisit them later. They might need some updates though, feel free to update the pages if you think information is lacking

[languid kayak]

no worries, we were undecided back then 😄

[languid kayak]

https://tenor.com/view/muppets-muppet-show-christopher-reeve-superman-shakespeare-gif-1497989260409790340

[lucid junco]

Its a radio station, yea?

Relay station, to be more precise

Thats.. really lacking

There is a big issue with the list

It uses transportation for gas stations

While others(this one is West point) Put them into utilities, along with Auto services and Laundromat

(March ridge)

I think putting Gas station with auto shop into utilities is fine

Then auto and gas to transportation and laundromat to..

Services?

@languid kayak @naive imp

[lucid junco]

Umm

[digital helm]

The gta wiki was my reference when first doing the businesses page https://gta.fandom.com/wiki/Businesses_in_GTA_V
They have gas stations under utilities. And repair shops under garages

Here's the old businesses page https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Businesses&oldid=198931

[lucid junco]

Old business page is good actually

Everything thats related to government - service
Other - Utilities (?)

[digital helm]

Laundromat doesn't feel right to me, to be in utility. Utility to me is more like gas, electric, water, etc.
Maybe Laundromat would go in "Other"?

[lucid junco]

Whats your idea then

Though I really find Others being a dumpster for notable features really bad

[languid kayak]

we had one editor doing some mess before sadly having to be blocked for behaviour by our moderators and it was left in unfinished state sadly; Vail brought it a little up to date and @naive imp was thinking about overhaling it

[lucid junco]

...

Huh

So simple yet really nice

[languid kayak]

Keep in mind me and ThinkDock can add and update marks to the map, we just never had occasion to get to it 😄

Not sure about the actual categories, but can ask Blindcoder, he's usually busy though so may not be instantenous

[lucid junco]

I get it, I think thats a pretty good idea

And it resebles the game as much as possible

[languid kayak]

ooh, that's good idea, forgot about them

You weren't around that's why 😄

topohraphy as in iso/regular? If the latter, the in-game map allows you to switch both now (which is nice)

the map map, not map item 😄

[lucid junco]

Is everyone fine that Auto shops are now Industrial buildings? :P

[digital helm]

I'm fine with this. Saves us having to think so hard

[lucid junco]

Alright then :)

Is this a church or a chapel?

If its church, then it can be called a graveyard by definition, if not - its Chapel and Cementery

In the meantime, I had found another unnamed Gas station

To cut the chase short, It has a gas 2 go zombie type attached to it

I was even able to find zed with a gas 2 go logo

As some of you can see, its about as close to the Gas 2 Go as Fossoil to Gas, so Im really confident that its just another wrongly typed Gas Station

[naive imp]

I personally think it's a little too vague, which is why I'm working on something better for the future. However, finishing all the location articles takes precident so the business page is on the back burner for me.

If you guys want to improve it a bit in the meantime as an ad-hoc solution feel free to, but I am gonna overhaul it in the future

[languid kayak]

bug hunting in build 42 be like… 😛

[languid kayak]

I guess sticking, at least for core areas, to official name as a start is a good start at least. Can split them down later on of course.

[lucid junco]

I really hope that bug hunting in b42 will be like this, and not something that everyone will notice/experience :)

[languid kayak]

(but better to have clear guidelines, so folks know how to add it)

[languid kayak]

https://tenor.com/view/why-not-both-why-not-take-both-gif-11478682

[lucid junco]

Back To The Nurture Chiropractic Services
Retail & Commercial

Small amount of trolling

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Riverside Done

Some of them are categorized by.. intuition

Mainly the car salvage field

And some of them(Sweet Pea restaraunt, Pharmahug) were categorized by their title/other buildings

Because devs didnt bother with splitting building colors

[lucid junco]

Had started standardizing Doe Valley Businesses, will probably finish when Im back home

[restive adder]

Broken heavy load moodle deleted

[digital helm]

thank you 🙂

[lucid junco]

I personally do agree that "Other" was fucking ridiculous :p

Pretty much a dumpster of landmarks, industrial buildings, communities, prisons, theaters(the list goes on)

Having general, yet legible lists is better than having more descriptive, yet illegible ones

And dont forget that readers can sort the list by descriptions

[proud cobalt]

Ok distribution tables are finally deploying. Ive watched the first 150 with no issues apart from some minor manual fixes caused by the old distribution tables having some errors. I'll be up for another hour or so, but let me know if you see any issues.

Any articles starting with A or B will have incorrect chance columns, these have to be redone tomorrow (hopefully)

[robust latch]

Most excellent news bruv

[flat sun]

is it cool if i redo the cooking page? it seems really rough 😅

[proud cobalt]

Sure thing

[proud cobalt]

Ok there's no more instances of the old distribution table on english pages which is all im getting the bot to do right now. Please flag any articles missing distribution pages with
[[Category:Articles requiring distribution tables]]

[proud cobalt]

@digital helm @languid kayak Should we add notpageimage to infobox models? i think the icons would make better popups, smaller file size, and more recognisible for players

[lucid junco]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Doe_Valley#Businesses

• Buisnesses reorganised
• New ones added, old ones renamed if necessary

Some issues with Grocery stalls and Pony Roam O

1. Is it okay to name them "Grocery stalls" or should we give them a different name?
2. Pony Roam O isnt present on the map, so I put it into the Entertainment category, if anyone thinks that it should go into some other category - tell me

On the side note, seeing how many buildings have no name is painful to me

It feels like Indie Stone left some places unnamed just to troll on people people, who wanted to categorize them in the future

[robust latch]

You mean as in residential buildings?

Many of the businesses have names as far as i saw

[lucid junco]

No, I mean Restaurants, cafés, gun stores, camping stores, notable buildings in general

[robust latch]

Some dont though you are right

[lucid junco]

Like come on, we can see the front of this ice-cream shop

Why it has no name

Why do I have to write "Ice cream shop"
Instead of "Billy's popsicles" or whatever

[lucid junco]

The doe valley alone has 7 unnamed businesses

Or 8 if you count controversial gas station

And 14 named

1:2 ratio in the least business dense region of the map

[languid kayak]

Hm, I like models, icons are low res and will get stretched in browsers I guess?

[languid kayak]

I'll try to do that in the spare time, thanks!

[languid kayak]

I am surprised how many are named, but yeah, poor places might never get the proper treatment thanks to the the isometric view 😦

[digital helm]

I agree with Faal, the models are fine to me. Problem with the image selection is that each image is given a score, with images less than 119px rated highly negatively.
https://m.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:PageImages#Image_choice

So any other image will likely be chosen over the icons

[proud cobalt]

Interesting read, i guess if it prefers 4-600px models are perfectly sized

[lucid junco]

I mean, thats better than being "Ice cream shop", at least some people could become interested in the funny named shop

[manic ledge]

love that place

Always eat there

I just love billy’s popsicles

[lucid junco]

Im fine with buildings that are facing west to be unnamed, but not those that face east

[lucid junco]

We can give them fake names untill indie stone notices

But it would be already too late, since everyone will refer to them by the old name

[lucid junco]

Thought Im personally not a fan of intentionally gaslighting people :P

Billy's popsicles is the only one that Im fine with

Also wdym, Billy's popsicles is the official business in the Doe Valley 😉

Is this location within Riverside area

[thin cloud]

Error in the McGrew page. The "John" outfit is actually the very minor Triple-N presenter, not McGrew https://pzwiki.net/wiki/General_John_McGrew

Also there's still a lot of fan fiction going on in the Knox Event timeline for the <bzzt>ed tweets

[proud cobalt]

Looks like you got your answer @languid kayak #pzwiki_editing message

[proud cobalt]

We just opened project lore to expand and verify the accuracy of lore on the wiki. Any info would be a great help

[flat sun]

i had a quick look out of curiosity and. come on man

[languid kayak]

Thanks! I was wondering about that; I added the "pressumably" note as I wasn't sure about it

[proud cobalt]

I think most of these were done by halosammy with a fair bit of speculation #pzwiki_editing message. This is likely one of the pages that will change the most from project lore

[thin cloud]

For the lore characters in general, their main pic shouldn't be those outfits, the outfits should just be a picture at the bottom

For the tweet stuff, anything not directly mentioned in a tweet should be removed. If there's not enough info in the tweet, remove the reference. This includes stuff like the "... billions..." and the Saint Mont Michel reference

[proud cobalt]

Pinging @robust latch for future reference

[proud cobalt]

Pat is a writer

[restive adder]

You know I'm an indie stone employee right? I'm just sneaky 😉

I can pass on requests

[lucid junco]

I was thrown off a bit 😅

...

How can you look at this station and go "Yep, that Gas 2 Go"

[robust latch]

Its not part of Doe Valley, you can consider that as a small village&farm, located at the southeastern outskirts of Riverside.

[lucid junco]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Rosewood#Business
Business category standardized

It wasnt as bad as Riverside and Doe Valley

[lucid junco]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/March_Ridge#Businesses
March Ridge was the easiest one so far

[languid kayak]

Yeah, except we don't have anything else sadly 😦 Can go back to placeholder images, though IMHO something is better than nothing I guess? Though I did note the hairstyles and facial features are undefined.

We had a brief discussion here too, but that didn't spark the interest back then, will gladly get back to it though now that you sparked interest, especially as we got a https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Project_Lore freshly set up 😛

Pinging @robust latch for that too and maybe @digital helm in case we'd have to adjust the infoboxes for that (we also don't have survivor navbox)

Either way, I fixed the John one, thanks!

[proud cobalt]

Wiki working for you rn @languid kayak ?

@restive adder Getting 404d atm

[languid kayak]

oh, I just did an edit

so seems it is for me

[restive adder]

Working fine for me

[proud cobalt]

You sure its not loading cache? I'm getting 404 and on bot and on https://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/pzwiki.net

We're back

[languid kayak]

That apparently was the case with the "Crystal Pie Place" on the official map, though in case of Valley Station it was made official

[lucid junco]

:P

[languid kayak]

About the ask for staff we had some of that back in the days, but we'd have to ask mappers about that from waht Bren said back then – I guess it's doable? We'd just have to gather all these questions in one place like https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Project_Locations_and_Maps#Questions_for_the_game_staff and then try to reach people. Though I guess a lot will change after b42 anyway and they don't want to spoil it too much 😄

[lucid junco]

I was a bit thrown off to see Mormix McFudgington's on the side facing coffee shop

It turn out to be another gaslight

Its Seahorse Coffee

[lucid junco]

I hope Gas stations will change

3 Unnamed Gas stations is too much for my liking

[proud cobalt]

Back down for me at least, i guess thatll do for tonight

Different cloudflare error, 525 SSL handshake failed

[languid kayak]

Got it; something to note for @naive imp too

[robust latch]

I am currently trying to figure out;

1- How to add proper wiki-like tooltips (mood, xp) in Thing II's script to the transcript template part. For now all i managed to extract from the script is FRM+1 and not something like Farming {{mood|+1}}. Boredom shouldnt be included as every line in every vhs reduces boredom by 5.

2- How to (maybe) add tooltips to infobox in the script. This one can get confusing because not every line always give same amount of panic&stress&fear etc. Maybe its best to hand write this information to the infobox.

3- Somehow identify each individual just like Vaileasys's output. Achieving this would extremely ease the editors life.

{{tooltip|Dig some earth.|FRM+1}}

[proud cobalt]

I think we should avoid tooltips, they cant be viewed on mobile

[naive imp]

Don't use the map project poi names for wiki articles a lot of them are wildly incorrect

[proud cobalt]

But some kind of solution to show them nicely would be ideal

[naive imp]

As for that Seahorse Coffee I believe I caught that one in kts article

[lucid junco]

I didnt, but I use it for easy top down view of the location to check businesses

@languid kayak@naive impDoes this look alright?

Giga mall gas station?

Damn, I really suck without autocorrection 😅

[lucid junco]

Huh

So the Giga Mart can now be considered as a Gas Station? :P

Unmentioned gas station

[robust latch]

They ll essentially look like this https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Granny_Nani#Transcript. Keep in mind tho, this isnt from script, i manually put the tooltips myself on this one.

[lucid junco]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Gas_station#List_of_chains
Added Gigamart and Martins essentials
Added in Gas Stations w/o any affiliations

[robust latch]

Why are they in gas stations?

[restive adder]

@quartz bear Dev suggests;

They can use the chunk debugger tool to see the room definitions in a building, you can even see those on the online map, and that could be used to make reasonable deductions

Re west facing unknown buildings

[lucid junco]

They have gas stations

As shown previously

[lucid junco]

Martins

[lucid junco]

Gigamart

[lucid junco]

Cool, where can I toggle it?

In the f11 menu?

[restive adder]

Add -debug in launch options and then it's in one of the debug menus, don't know which sorry

[lucid junco]

This thing?

[restive adder]

Suggests using the online map

Or the debugger:

[lucid junco]

Online doesn't show anything apart from room name

[proud cobalt]

Impossible to click on mobile. Best I can do is highlight. But I don't have any ideas on a better system

[restive adder]

Aye, they're saying you might be able to work out what least more of the buildings purpose, it may not be named

[robust latch]

I think this is a it is what it is situation for mobile? I have 0 cluse as to how to fix this

Or make it applicable to mobile

[proud cobalt]

It is good for some buildings. Identified some zippee marts from the room names

[lucid junco]

Well.. I dont need master's degree to figure out that this is a gas station

[robust latch]

Do you have coordinates of both Martins and Gigamart fuel pumps?

or gas stations

[lucid junco]

https://map.projectzomboid.com/?#12096x2116 -Martins
https://map.projectzomboid.com/?#12570x2547 -Gigamart

[lucid junco]

Ill be more clear with our problem: We know what the buildings are, but we cant find the name or any look alike to pin to. It doesnt help that there are unproperly named/placed zombie types within those buildings that lead to even more confusion

[robust latch]

Thank you

[lucid junco]

Example is the gas station that Ive previously mentioned. While being nothing like Gas 2 Go and having no name associated with it, for some reason there is a Gas2Go zombiesType attached to it, raising more questions than it answers.

[proud cobalt]

[robust latch]

PRESS ALL THE RED BUTTONS

[proud cobalt]

Looks like this confirms that we should split all the recipe magazines @languid kayak

The second requires something a little more complicated: the recipe system allowing for dynamic result items so that a single recipe can handle packing or unpacking for several different item types. In 41 each recipe could only have a fixed item as the result: for example when opening canned food we needed one recipe for each canned food type. With the changes we’re making we can have a single “open canned food” recipe for everything, and the recipe will create the proper result item.

This will simplify things which is nice, there will be some changes to recipe list made

[restive adder]

Not every building has a name, or has a defined zombie zone. Those are the minority and the exception, not the standard

So yeah, some West facing buildings just don't have names

[lucid junco]

Alright, Im fine with that. Then its just a matter of removing bugs/misplaced ZombiesType, since it means that Gas 2 Go Zeds will spawn in non Gas 2 Go stations like shown previously and move on. Thanks for the help and info :)

[restive adder]

Check the gas pumps look, they should have branding as well. Otherwise, send a map link /coordinates links to the bugs section of the forums

[languid kayak]

Tooltips are fine to have, but should be complimented to the legend. I'll be working on improving the items page first

[languid kayak]

looks fine to me 👌

[languid kayak]

It's GigaMart btw 😛

[languid kayak]

I wholeheartedly recommend Languagetool 😛 Does wonders and is free and open souce too, can be self-hosted if you wish too

[languid kayak]

We're past that already 😄 We even go further as checking the zombie spawns

Though this allowed us to spot some few rooms, yeah

The one on map is really handy

[lucid junco]

I know, just typed it in offhand

[languid kayak]

It's the same option as I showed you, it also shows zombie type (that's not on map)

[lucid junco]

I think that the gas station page is about done then

We have found and written about every gas station currently within the game

Its now just a matter of creating a page for each unnamed one and linking them

[languid kayak]

I think we should just make legend similar to ref for those

[languid kayak]

otoh

Spears have been rethought, and many of the spears that you may be used to in B41 have been removed. However, there are also many new spears – and many different ways to make a spear compared to what’s out there currently.

Also interesting bit for you @proud cobalt for recipes:

The second requires something a little more complicated: the recipe system allowing for dynamic result items so that a single recipe can handle packing or unpacking for several different item types. In 41 each recipe could only have a fixed item as the result: for example when opening canned food we needed one recipe for each canned food type. With the changes we’re making we can have a single “open canned food” recipe for everything, and the recipe will create the proper result item.

[languid kayak]

oh, missed that 😄

[burnt crypt]

https://vt.tiktok.com/ZSFvWPAot/

[languid kayak]

wrong chat?

@proud cobalt relevant from Sarah in case you missed it, not sure it's all translatable yet?

[robust latch]

I think the effect part in the infobox is redundant, we already have tooltips in transcript template. Also the moodle icons dont feel like they belong there. If we ever feel the urge to specify the effects further, a solution may be to include additinoal vague information about it in overview. I really need your ideas about this.

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/The_Dog_Goblin

Changed the Usage to Overview, feels beter

[dusk yew]

folks have an opinion on the distribution section for clothing items with the new tables? should we still put the vehicles, foraging, and building sections under the table when all that info is already in the table? The npc section stays for obvious reasons, but I don't wanna duplicate work if its not necessary

or keep adding them since the spawn table is for containers, and not locations? though that would only apply to buildings, the cars are kind of self explanatory

[naive imp]

I don't think the Unnamed gas stations should have their own page for each station. I'd say we make a page for all of them and copy the table into it a la self storage page

They're all fairly similar

Each chain has a page for their own chain, make more sense to group all the Unnamed ones together

[proud cobalt]

Not sure what this means. I'll guess distributions? They can be translated, container links are ll. Just remove the bot flags

[proud cobalt]

I say remove them all except npcs. They're from before the tables but its hard to do as a bot task

[proud cobalt]

What should be done about the usage of {{Crafting header}} on this page? i'm really trying to remove them all and its the last one (in english)

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Mods/Greenfire

[proud cobalt]

Looks like theres more that have custom recipe uses
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Boring_Soup

[lucid junco]

I meant that as "If we wanted to", In general we can just link the Gas station#Gas stations w/o any affiliations

[proud cobalt]

@digital helm @languid kayak Navbox items is noticeably causing increased loading times, its about 90,000 nodes and I'm pretty sure its because of ll usage. It may be best to have separate language pages particularly with wildly increased item numbers in B42. Thoughts? It would mean every single item would have to be maintained for that language.

[digital helm]

Sounds like the way things used to be. The problem was that there was a massive disconnect between English and other languages, so as English got updated, other languages became more and more outdated. The use of ll and tt (i.e. have a single core template that every language refers to) was supposed to make it easier to update each language with each new update (update in 1 place).

So, that's the history, but if it's becoming a load time problem (Vibrance advised against merging the item navboxes for this reason) I guess we can either go back to splitting the navboxes, or go back to having a separate Navbox for each language. 🤔

Since the wiki is more active these days, I guess we could go with the latter? Different Navbox for each language. Although it'll still be difficult for an English editor to update

[proud cobalt]

This is with navbox items

This is without... same page

[digital helm]

When I did the first couple of VHS examples, i added up all the Moodle effects, to display the total effect the VHS will have on the character's mood. Rather than as the transcript is, shows for each line. Also, having it in the infobox solves the problem of not being able to view the tooltip

[digital helm]

Overview is good in this situation imo

[digital helm]

Yeah, definitely need to do something. As it'll just get worse as the game is updated

[languid kayak]

I think the headers can't be translated?

in the actual distribution template

[languid kayak]

We seem to be going circles with this one 😄 Maintaining a good translatability on the wiki is hard unfortuantely 😩

Without sacrifices

[proud cobalt]

There's no template used, it can be translated in article

[languid kayak]

I think I forgot to paste the link lol now I have to find it

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template_talk:Crafting/sandbox2

Are you sure it's not the template?

But yeah, that's the table in the template, but I think we moved out from having to copy the whole template and instead on just translating the specific bits in question?

[proud cobalt]

Oh this is crafting not distribution

Let me have a look

I havn't looked at translatability at all for it. But i think if the translator just copies the whole includeonly and then translates the headers

! Ingredients
! Tools
! Requirements
! Workstation
! XP```
and uses the english recipe names to call them
```{{Crafting/sandbox2/pt-br
|plank
|flashlight
}}```
That would work. @digital helm Does that seem sane?

[proud cobalt]

Also meant to be a reply to @languid kayak

[digital helm]

That looks good to me, from what I remember about the template(s)

[proud cobalt]

It's just a wikitable

Sounds good, I'll tell Sarah on the talk page

[languid kayak]

ah, I said distribtution? My mind wasn't set straight then 😄

[robust latch]

On the wiki end we have to add icons and arguments for XP giving skills then. This encompasses all survival, firearm and crafting skills, but also lightfooted, short blade and long blunt too. Lastly, for the 8 recipe giving tapes, maybe just one recipe icon will do?

I think editors will have to manually add that information to the pages

I can "try" to add xp arguments to infobox, if we are agreeing on this.

[robust latch]

Maybe we can add "Author" arg to the infobox for CD's?,

[robust latch]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/A_Boy_from_Kentucky or we can just keep it within transcripts 🤔

Also i decided to remove RecMedia from infobox, feels way too technical

[digital helm]

The 'effect' moodles were added for food items, they were just being used for media too. I could add a "Skills" or "Skill(s) gained" parameter

And author

[digital helm]

on that, I'm not sure of the change from "Media ID" to "ItemDisplayName" 🤔

[robust latch]

RecMedia["89108e07-fc70-4eec-a267-790d6f4b9831"] = {
    itemDisplayName = "RM_d088ff63-6c0d-43b0-bcd6-b023967a1b1a",
    title = "RM_b4d7598e-1b9c-45a9-af70-fa23dd0b822f",
    subtitle = nil,
    author = "RM_0e84d884-926a-4a3a-b9eb-81361afe491a",
    extra = "RM_4e88a7a8-31c5-4177-bde3-a34df6e88cca",```

[digital helm]

ah, I see it was changed to RecMedia

[robust latch]

Only the itemDisplayName is useful, it has same value with github, and also same with recordedmedia.en.txt

[digital helm]

what do you mean with github?

[robust latch]

https://github.com/TheIndieStone/ProjectZomboidTranslations/blob/master/EN/Recorded_Media_EN.txt

[robust latch]

Skill(s) gained would be nice i think

[digital helm]

That's just for translations though. The RecMedia is the id for the media item, in the same way as the guid is for clothing, and Base.Axe is for items.

[robust latch]

Honestly it felt like the only useful piece of code to me

I can add recmedia back, if you think its important

[robust latch]

I need a second opinion for that, does the current format of this new cd i just shared please the eye? Is it awkward?

[digital helm]

to me it just seems like the all encompassing id for it, whereas the other's are just the strings. Either way, not a big deal which we choose, I just think the terminology "Media ID" is more recognisable 😄

[robust latch]

Ok i am changing itemdisplayname to Media ID

[digital helm]

It does feel like something is missing in the infobox. Everything else seems fine

Thoughts on the positioning of the transcript section? Should that go above or below "Distirbution"? I feel like it should be above

[robust latch]

Could be better, yeah. Lemme try like that

If its not a big deal i am keeping the translation id then, (naming it Media ID)

[robust latch]

Usually there are no problems and it looks good, but sometimes it leads to this->https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Granny_Nani

[robust latch]

Author and Production can be added to infobox. We can also have the info beneath the transcript with paper icon just like back cover of retail vhs's.

[robust latch]

Adding clear beneath the overview seems to solve the issue, with a so to speak slight format compromise

I think i shouldnt add {{clear}}to the script, if the outcome is bad, editors can manually add {{Clear}}. Because tapes and vhs's that dont require {{Clear}} is good as is and is ruined upon the addition of the template.

[digital helm]

don't add clear, it'll need to fixed on the template side. I was planning on changing it to a table, which should fix these issues. I just haven't had the time lately. I looked at a simpler fix when it was brought up last time, but it wasn't a simple fix (at least for my knowledge)

[proud cobalt]

All Template:ll does is add the /language to the end of a link right? @digital helm

[digital helm]

that's right

[proud cobalt]

So if i remove all the language stuff from navbox items, then write a simple script that would take the english navbox and add the language to the end of each [[link]], that would reduce nodes by ~70,000 and help with maintenence. thoughts and @languid kayak too

[digital helm]

That'd work. Only problem is future proofing. As not everyone is prepared to run a py script

(sorry for always being devil's advocate 😆 )

[proud cobalt]

Keep all the titles with translatability so titles dont have to be manually translated every time too? the list of title translations would stay at the top?

[digital helm]

sounds good to me

[proud cobalt]

Would only be a single python script no pywiki nonsense, even the most basic of editors could work it out if they tried

This would kind of fix renamed links too. Assuming every item gets added quickly to the English navbox, it would only have to be done once per stable build

[digital helm]

I'm happy with it

[proud cobalt]

Ill investigate then, Pretty consistently getting .5 second faster server response in browser debug, and .5-.8 seconds faster cpu usage time in article parser after removing ll links

[digital helm]

pretty significant improvement. Seems it'll be worth it

[proud cobalt]

1300 ll links

[digital helm]

yeah, just adds the language code of the current page to the end of the link https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Localized_link

[proud cobalt]

1300 ll template calls in one template

[languid kayak]

I think the legend/icon isn't needed here, just a footnote like in books or some tables we already have (not in the middle of the page, but right under the transcriptions)

[digital helm]

because of the way templates work in mediawiki, it increase the node count, which slows down page load times

[proud cobalt]

No idea, all i know is it doubles cpu use time and increases page load time for users

Writing a custom solution isnt the problem

[digital helm]

I'm starting to think more and more like the translate extension will be the solution to our problems. It'd likely remove the need for ll. I imagine we have a similar problem with the items page. I remember that taking a while to load, which I'm sure ll has made worse

I guess everything we're doing now is a temporary solution?

[proud cobalt]

Could you link it? The most discussion was before i started editing. Any extra info about our use case would help too

[digital helm]

https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Translate/en

keeps track of the differences between english and other languages. Each line is translated separately, which the wiki keeps track of

[proud cobalt]

Speaking of dirty temporary solutions... this works and i could do it with the same script...

[[Crafted Timer/{{SUBPAGENAME}}]]

And cuts 2/3 of the nodes out

Other than title translation which i havnt really looked at

[digital helm]

hmm... pretty dirty solution. I don't like it if I'm honest 😄 But if it works without issue, go ahead I guess?

[proud cobalt]

LL is just an overcomplicated way of adding {{SUBPAGENAME}} by looks of it,
right now navbox calls ll 1300 times
Each ll calls lcs
Each lcs basically just adds {{SUBPAGENAME}}
Unless im mistaken?

[proud cobalt]

And what was this waiting on?

[digital helm]

pretty much right. There's just some checks to make sure it's a language code

[digital helm]

fair bit of work on Kirrus' end from my understanding

also, since it changes a lot, he was going to set up a test mediawiki environment

[proud cobalt]

Ahh ok

@digital helm Any idea how i can get the tt in titles to grab the translations from the same page the template is on. For example,

Im on Template:Navbox items/sandbox/tr
i want both the template and the translations to be on Template:Navbox items/sandbox/tr
And i want to call {{Navbox items/sandbox/tr}} in the article

Here's the current page, maybe i'm going about it the wrong way
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Navbox_items/sandbox/tr

Hang on

I might have an idea

[digital helm]

not entirely sure what you're trying to do here. tt gets the translations by transcluding the page and checks for the value in a switch. So it's either tt OR use the template for the navbox, not both

I don't either, but it's above my head 🤷

[proud cobalt]

Yeah i think that was my issue

[digital helm]

If you wanted to do that you'd have to use a subpage, but you may as well just replace the values with the translation

That's right. It's still in a template, just means translating the navboxes will be a little more manual

Here's more info on the node count issue if you want to read about it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Template_limits

I think Calvy's set for that. Just need to update the templates from referencing the parent, instead of being used for translating

[proud cobalt]

Yeah its not really about hardcoding it, that's the very last option

Thats why we're investigating it

[robust latch]

Could be a nicer solution instead of adding new arguments to the infobox actually

[naive imp]

Interesting details I found in the latest thursdoid

Read it if you haven't already it's a good and juicy one

Different kinds of generators too

Weapon balancing implications too, should add all this to b42 prep project

Also want to maybe make the existing weapon pages easily expandable and set up infrastructure too

Just a thought

[robust latch]

Pinging @digital helm for this, thoughts?

[robust latch]

Will do +, forgot to read yesterday :P.

[languid kayak]

Mods and obsolete items are kinda things we're undecided, I think I'll remove some of those old items, but not initially, I want to move as much info to relevant pages first and maybe keep some obsolete items that can still be spawned in debug / found in the files now.

As far as mods goes, I don't really mind hosting the pages (could be interesting to see mod authors being active and using it as documentation IMO), though that's not the case and they get into mainteneance burden area pretty soon.

[somber jolt]

Currently compiling info from the lua and java files regarding statics on vehicles. Is this something that the wiki team would be interested in adding to the wiki?

for example wiki doesn't show maxSpeed of vehicles which is something im sure people will be interested in

same for steering efficiency and damage protection

[robust latch]

That sounds like something that could go into a code section or infobox. Maybe a new section called "Statistics", "Vehicle Properties" etc. would have to be made for each vehicle.

Pinging @naive imp for this. Keep in mind that we have a project for vehicles and it has been completed. https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Vehicles_and_Mechanics_(Project)

Although despite project being complete, i think it'd be definetely nice to be added to wiki

[naive imp]

I think this is good info but not sure how we would go about including it. @languid kayak @proud cobalt what do yall think

[digital helm]

Yes, these would be helpful. From memory they vary between variants, otherwise I'd consider adding some of it to the infobox. A table would be good though. May also want to consider adding maxSpeed to the table on the vehicles page

[digital helm]

I'm not fully understanding all this. Is this about the moodles and skills from media? For displaying that in the body of the page, I don't think an icon is necessary. If a tooltip for the line isn't sufficient, you could add it beneath the transcript. I'd like to see it in the infobox too though, totalling the moodle and skill changes.

[robust latch]

Ok, final decision: We only add icons of moods and xp's to infoboxes. No text or section will specify effects or amount of skill xp gained.

Transcripts as usual will have tooltips.

[proud cobalt]

I don't mind the pages, its that they use the old Crafting headers with a custom recipe

[somber jolt]

I also took the existing wiki chart and added a few extra columns (ignore the tierlist part)

There are some details about cars that can be ignored. It's easier to have a simple statement about glove compartments (heavy duty is 20, sports and standard is 10)

[somber jolt]

I also find the "Total Storage" to be redundant. We don't have large seats anymore so most seats are relegated to holding a bag or furniture which includes encumbrance reduction.

I know people cared about it more with the 6-seater but, again, large seats aren't a thing anymore and 6-seater is the slowest car in the game
(Sorry I meant to reply to the post above)

[languid kayak]

I'd say the parameters would go to the infobox and spawn changes to distribution table.

Also, I pointed recently about vehicles lacking the code section, they could get some as well (though I suppose it's scattered between java and lua)

[languid kayak]

I also think it's what made Vibrance getting a break from editing. Also part of me I've not been focused on doing translation (side) work myself 😛

[languid kayak]

BTW guys, we've been discussing weapon durability with Vail internally, but gonna move it to the chat – the mechanics are explained in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Durability but currently there are two properties that define that:

• condition_max – indicating the weapon condition/durability in points
• condition_lower_chance – a chance (1 in condition_lower_chance at level 0 maintenance and weapon skill) that the weapon will drop a point from condition_max

Since the values were hard to directly compare to, @digital helm came with a new property back then, base_durability. This property is explained in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Durability#Base_durability and used only on the wiki. This is a property that is calculated at level 0 of maintenance and weapon skill by simply multiplying both values.

I was thinking of unifying the look of tables at https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Weapons and https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Infobox_item and when it comes to weapons reducing the amount of tables (we currently have three for a durability)

Now, a few questions:

• How useful is the calculated value? Is it indeed better than listing condition_max and condition_lower_chance separately?
• If it is, how about the renaming it? The "Base" part in the name is a bit confusing IMO, I thought of either simply naming it "durability" or more descriptive "Hits to break" and explain details (average, as it's still RNG and assumes level 0 maint + skill within the formula). It seems people are using "base durability" to explain something else already, e.g., https://www.reddit.com/r/projectzomboid/comments/nanqvs/how_is_durability_of_crafted_weapons_such_as/ – the term is used exclusively for the wiki

[languid kayak]

On the other hand, I've been thinking how much useful is the base durability after all; it is really simple to calculate knowing both conditon_max and condition_lower_chance which are right beside it, so it seems redundant (and troublesome to update/maintain when changed, prone to errors), though there are still issues with having to research how it works and not so easy to compare.

[digital helm]

Fyi I didn't come up with base dhrability. Someone else did and added it to the weapons tables. I just added it to the infobox because j thought it was helpful

[languid kayak]

ah, that explains more!

[languid kayak]

kinda relevant video, but that predated the condition lower in chance as well as base durability on the wiki 😛 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tf9FxOjqHI4

[languid kayak]

I also watched some deep-dive videos about combat in https://www.youtube.com/@Trombonaut/videos I'd love to get all that into the wiki at one point, though that might take a while 😛

[languid kayak]

There's less accurate version in Steam forums at https://steamcommunity.com/app/108600/discussions/0/3415432483391552578/ too but it does list the actual modifiers for the damage (22.5x for melee and 105x for firearms), other videos include zombie health, we don't cover both on wiki

[robust latch]

Durability is on my top 10 do not translate yet list

[robust latch]

Thing II just added each individual person to script but there are still couple things left to decide or wait, before we mass produce 333 recorded medias:
1- We can make all, some or none of the media coloured. This will require some changes to Transcript Template in wiki. The script has values for colors, ready to be used.
2- The Infobox Item will have new moodle and skills changes. These moodles and skill changes can be easily added by editors by hand to infobox, as all they will have to do is look at tooltips. For boredom they have to multiply line count with -25.
3- Vaileasys's solution to buggy lengthy sentences. I believe he is looking for a fix. I brought up manually adding {{clear}} while editing (script wont have {{clear}}) if there are any issues.
4- Is current format good, assuming the above 3 topics have been agreed upon or done?

I personally have a set mind with the format, but i am open to suggestions.

For Retail VHS, Home VHS and CD you can refer to respectively; https://pzwiki.net/wiki/The_Dog_Goblin
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Granny_Nani
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/A_Boy_from_Kentucky

[robust latch]

I did get some inspiration by Roudrick's "Back Cover" section.

[flint pivot]

yo

[languid kayak]

Colored as in the actual text in transcripts? Though keep in mind we had that before, it can be hard to read sometimes. Other than that it seems fine 👌.

As far as Vail works, he's on a break this weekend, so may not be right now, but indeed the clear functionality should ideally be added to the template. I probably won't look at that myself, as I'm focusing on items now (weapons currently), but the template should be up for editing if anyone wants, if not, let me know, I'll take a look

BTW, I just realized, the KnockdownMod property which is used on the weapons infobox and https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Weapons apparently is deprecated so I guess it does nothing? According to the https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Scripts_guide/Item_Script_Parameters/KnockdownMod

If that's right, then I guess there's no point to list it in the table and include in the infobox.

[flat sun]

had a quick look, definitely seems deprecated

[languid kayak]

Actually, it should be condition – that's the actual wording in-game (and in code too)

With that in mind that's another argument to actually get rid of base durability IMO 😄 And with things like comparing damage not being 1 to 1 anyway, do we really need a simplified formula for condition/durability?

[languid kayak]

Thanks! Seems it's best to remove it then to stop confusing people when comparing.

[languid kayak]

Okay, I updated the https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Weapons page with the legend, starting with the https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Weapons#Axes

Other than some icons being placeholders, I think it'd be best to remove the base durability altogether for now. Maybe someday in the future we will add calculated values to the table, but right now, it seems extra maintenance to update manually, especially as it's not accurate and the name is simply wrong. Pinging @digital helm for thoughts.

Also pinging @proud cobalt for the legend and table on mobile and @robust latch for tooltip explanation under the table in case you were looking for something like that in transcripts. 🙂

[lucid junco]

@languid kayak Should I apply categories to smaller communities like for big cities

Some (Dixie as an example) have too few info to make it look good

But others (Fallas lake as an example) have every building category

[languid kayak]

Categories as in [[Category:Dixie Mobile Park]]?

a week or so when we added the lore project?

[lucid junco]

Categories in businesses I mean

[languid kayak]

but yeah, those are added in the bottom of the business page 🤔 Unless I'm missing something

[lucid junco]

No, I mean categorizing businesses in these relatively small communities within the game, like we have done with Riverside, doe valley and Rosewood

Since Dixie doesn't have that many businesses, It would be like :
Entertainment & Restaurants :

• Diner
  Commercial and retail:
  Pretty much every other business

[lucid junco]

And I don't know if its good looking or not

The point isnt wether I should include a business, but rather should I categorize businesses within Dixie in a categories like before

[languid kayak]

oh, you mean the tables on the page? Well, I don't think a table with one entry is still harmful though? And if there are two at least then it's even better, plus we don't know if build 42 or later won't bring some new ones, so I guess it's fine

[lucid junco]

Its like, two categories in there, I dont know if two different tables are necessary there

Only for the sake of standardizing every page

[lucid junco]

Im mainly asking due to your answer to this

Idk, but there was a suggestion to do this only in core locations, so Im just reasking

These subtowns either have too many on the one category, or too many scattered, so Idk if It would look good though

Maybe, I should actually do it as a wip instead of bragging about it :P

[robust latch]

I dont think we will add a legend, mood&xp information in infobox should suffice (for mobile esp).

[robust latch]

My vote also goes for no colours. But lets see maybe we ll witness different opinions.

[languid kayak]

That was about the in-game map categories; guess the tables are about that? I'll take a look at your edits later when I'll be catching up (might be tomorrow), but if that's that, then it's fine 🙂

oh, I think I get it now. Yeah, the core maps are the only ones with these categories, but I guess it can be made in other pages too

[languid kayak]

the colors are kinda what allows to recognize different people speaking in-game, right? If that's the case, we already have that solved with the current transcript template anyway

Blunt weapons table should be done now 🎉

Few minor things

• I think I'll follow up the removal of base durability for the reasons I explained before, at worst we can revert that in the future, but that will lighten the page a little more and will give us less maintenenance. I'll also take care of durability page I'll redirect to condition now
• some icons are placeholders, they will be updated,
• I think the tooltip explanation should be repeated for each table for clarity, though *Limited impact when used one-handed. is repeated a few times.
• I'm not 100% sure about https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Weapons#Improvised knockback, the crit seems to be explained in https://youtu.be/8iniNs5wEyA?feature=shared&t=28 though the video is a year old now and I'm not sure it's up to date, if it's not, do fix me
• The description are not sections; I wanted to avoid that as we don't have a general "Blunt" and "Blade" now, but the drawback is that they can't be linked to. Alternative would be splitting the descriptions to Short Blunt and Short Blade and include it below the table (I'll think about it) Now only short/long blade needs splitting and verification

[proud cobalt]

Citizen and V22

At a guess you're using a % for the width?

[languid kayak]

Actually nothing's used right now 🤔 Citizen's not so terrible but indeed Vector 2022 is

nvm, it had width 50% 😄

[lucid junco]

@languid kayak@naive imp Is this Medical Building a "Doctor's office" or a "Medical clinic"?

Check the wiki page on it - clinic
Check the Doe Valley buisnesses page - Doctors
Fallas Lake page - clinic
Pz map - Doctors

[languid kayak]

btw @proud cobalt since you are adding distribution tables everywhere now, what do you think of shuffling the header order a little and moving trivia higher and distribution lower so that both code and distribution are closer together? I had that issue yesterday, but forgot to ping you, IMO pages look weird with two collapsed tables and text in between 😄

[lucid junco]

It also has a brother within Doe Valley with similar issue :P

[languid kayak]

e.g. https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Rubber_Duck and https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Help:Boilerplate_item#Distribution

[languid kayak]

Can you link them all? Though I guess ThinkDock will help you more 😄

The priority when it comes to naming is In-game map items (if labeled) → Wiki (based on the info we have → PZmap (it's all community-based as well, but some things were accepted as canon)

I though it was doctor's office, but I'm not sure

[lucid junco]

https://map.projectzomboid.com/#7296x8390x1431 PZ map
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Medical_clinic_(Fallas_Lake) Wiki page about it
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Doe_Valley#Medical Wiki page about businesses within doe valley
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Fallas_Lake#Services Wiki page about businesses in Fallas lake

[lucid junco]

It has a "Medclinic" in one room

And "Pharmacy storage"

[languid kayak]

huh, indeed. Looks a little like doctor's office, as it has separate bedroom (I think it does, right? In the corner) and a TV + kitchen, though might as well be it's for the doctor's residing it and it's just small for the town. Though I guess it's all oversimplificates when it comes to room and zombie types, different people focusing on different stuff 😛 (mappers, and then people adding loot and zombies on top)

[lucid junco]

Separate bedroom, office, kitchen and a living room

Thought its called bluntly "medical"

[languid kayak]

and other doctor's offices?

[lucid junco]

Medclinic, pharmacy, pharmacystorage, janitor, office, bathroom

And by the look its more like a clinic with rows of seats and waiting room

So I think it would be appropriate to call this a clinic

[lucid junco]

Why is it called "Self storage" if there is a Big sign that says "Clark storage"

[languid kayak]

That's a good question 🤔 And it was moved from Clark Storage, seems you missed it @naive imp 😄 https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Clark_Storage&action=history

[languid kayak]

I guess this was what you meant by the description @robust latch? https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Granny_Nani&type=revision&diff=325343&oldid=324461

or will this message get overriten by the script?

@proud cobalt is it possible to list pages that have {{Navbox locations}} verbatim? (as in no added pipe after locations? That'd allow me to list locations that are not added to navbox yet, and it seems there are some 🤔.

Regular search and API seems to ignore the { signs

[proud cobalt]

Here ya go

[lucid junco]

Muldraugh page is a mess :(

For some reson its categorized differently

[languid kayak]

You mean the business table?

[lucid junco]

Yes

[languid kayak]

They were being done at different times by different persons over time, guess that's why. WEll, more work to you then I guess 😄

Anyway @lucid junco this stays as medical clinic, right? https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Medical_clinic_(Fallas_Lake)

If so, I'll rename it in the infobox

[lucid junco]

Personally think thats its an doctors office while the other is medical clinic

This case is more of "Which definition does it fit better"

[languid kayak]

Welp, so far I uniformly made it Medical clinic; if we change our minds we can rename it later 😄

That, or build 42 brings something new

(or some blog posts)

(or tweets or confirmations from devs or whatever :P)

[lucid junco]

Alright

I will finish Muldraugh page and then its pretty much over.. for main area of the game

Im a bit afraid to look at Louisville page 😅

[proud cobalt]

What do we want to do with pages using crafting header that no longer have a recipe in game. Such as old items like boring food etc. @languid kayak

[languid kayak]

Doodle will stay, it might be repurposed in the future, not sure about the recipe, we decided not to include it in the template, but can keep that for historical purposes (same goes to all Pens and Pencils) some of the old recipes like Boring/Tasty/Simple salads/soups should be merged with respective pages since code isn't there and they aren't to maintain, same with whiskey bottle – can be marked for removal but not instantly removed; I'll hopefully get to them when I'll do food, but that will be a while 😩.

The Boilerplates will be revamped in the order weapon→clothing→food.

The Squid Calamari and Kindling is something I'd have to check

The regional variants of irrelevant pages should probably be looked upon, at worst we can remove the non-translated bits or comment them out

The Greenfire mods is similar to Hydrocraft, kept for historical reasons, but always creeps with those lists 🤔, that's the discussion we have here and then 😆

[proud cobalt]

Yeah but what do we do about the usage of crafting header. i want to get rid of the template entirely

[languid kayak]

You can comment them out I guess, though the doodle should be at least converted to a textual note on the relevant pages 🤔

as in with <nowiki>, just gotta remember and do that at one point :D. Probably worth sticking {{Improve}} to it too

[proud cobalt]

Ok i'll do this then, at least i can get most of it done tonight then

[languid kayak]

while you are there, take a look at this before you go if you don't mind 😛 I think I'll change the order if no one minds @proud cobalt

[proud cobalt]

Yeah I don't mind this

[proud cobalt]

Is there a better way to do this? I cant get it to nowiki and be in a comment, and just a comment doesnt work.

[languid kayak]

well, I guess it can be like that for now, we'll have to solve it manually anyway. Just stick improve on that so we don't forget and hopefully get over that eventually

The weapon boilerplate I'll do right after I finish browsing recent changes 😛

(at least I plan to :D)

@proud cobalt I wonder whether for things like that we should explicitly mark they don't spawn as part of other distribution systems (regular distribution, foraging, vehicles, random stories…) else I can imagine someone (maybe even me :D) sticking that category again – don't you think so?

https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Ranger_T-shirt_(colored)&curid=37455&diff=321701&oldid=311565

Lease we can stuff "only" till then 🤔

[proud cobalt]

Yeah maybe a comment in the distribution section would be best. That or only

[robust latch]

Is the distribution table due to be changed further? Despite having containers/tr, links are red

[languid kayak]

I guess the containers is something we will tackle as a part of SYF; might take a while I guess? Unless Calvy plans on tackling it before that.

[robust latch]

OK. I ll be on my safe locations island 🏝️ .

[lucid junco]

There is a secret drug lab in Muldraugh?

[proud cobalt]

Yes

[proud cobalt]

I dont have any plans for SYF or containers at the moment

[proud cobalt]

Redirects have to be created for each container link, not all will need articles. Most just link to the container page

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Containers

But that comes with the issue of redirect names

[lucid junco]

I was confused when I found a shack and a trailer with loads of guns

It doesn't have a page in wiki though

Nor does the abandoned village in the eastern part of the Muldraugh

[lucid junco]

@languid kayak@naive imp How do we deal with multiple unnamed buildings?

There is this "Autoshop Muldraugh"

[languid kayak]

Okay, can you run the script again when you will have time? Seems I tackled them all, the only remaining should be generic pages and radio stations, I'll think what to do about them later.

[lucid junco]

But there is also this Autoshop Muldraugh?

[languid kayak]

See https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Grocery_store_(Riverside_western_outskirts)

[lucid junco]

"Autoshop Muldraugh Western Outskits" aight

[languid kayak]

is it on the west?

Also, Autoshop Muldraugh isn't the actual name I think?

[naive imp]

Is that autoshop by the factories? If so it's already covered in that page for the factories themselves no need for an extra oage

Same for the office buildings there too

[lucid junco]

Not page, I mean splitting Factories into Factories and Autoshop in the businesses category

[languid kayak]

Also, something for later, but I just changed every description to "Isometric view of XXX" but I've been thinking whether they should all be called "Exterior view of the XXX", as I see the galleries have it. Should be relatively easily botted, pinging @naive imp for that but I have to take a nap now 😄

Going through all the recent changes you guys did was huge, you are all active a lot lately 😄

[lucid junco]

Have a nice one :)

[naive imp]

I don't think that's necessary. The autoshop is part of the factory complex and can be assumed that they used it for fleet maintenance

[lucid junco]

Okay

[languid kayak]

I already moved it back, added logo and updated the list 🙂

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Clark_Storage

[lucid junco]

Oh, nice, didnt notice It 😅

[proud cobalt]

Sure thing, here's the results

[lucid junco]

Thats what we call quality

[languid kayak]

https://tenor.com/view/king-of-the-hill-jpeg-do-i-look-like-i-know-what-a-jpeg-is-distort-koth-gif-27539179

Well, the logos do require remaking at one point, though till then, I use the ones we already have

[robust latch]

Are we ever going to make police station articles?

[languid kayak]

Isn't it filtered to English only now?

[languid kayak]

Individual ones? Depends on you guys I guess 😄

[robust latch]

Its just everything else is so throughly covered, except this one topic

[lucid junco]

no?

[robust latch]

Maybe we can add task to locations project, or is it redundant to add them?

[lucid junco]

The more I look at locations, the more it looks like a swiss cheese

So police stations arent the only one to be left out

[robust latch]

There are almost 500 business articles and most of them are up to date 🤔

[lucid junco]

Maybe, Im not gonna check :p

[lucid junco]

In any case, yep, I think we should

[robust latch]

I agree

(we both wont do anything about it)

Or we can?

[lucid junco]

Nope 😄

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Muldraugh#Businesses

• Standardized
• Businesses added

[languid kayak]

Actually, on a second though, I guess it's best not to touch it, as people would probably like to know how to get the item before delving into trivia. My issue was with the table being full width and auto-generated, similar to the code one.

With that in mind, however, there are a few things, we'd still all have to discuss and solve eventually:

The auto-generated table is nice, as it's easy to generate and update and free of errors, but we'd have to think how understandable it is by casual wiki users / new/casual Zomboid players browsing the wiki. So far, the most clear for me is LootZed in-game, though I believe percentages are hard to calculate and can change depending on lucky/unlucky/sandbox/multiplayer settings? For starters, I think some explanation for casual users would be nice, I guess. Either link to an article explaining it, or explain how rolls and chances are calculated side by side.

I also think whether a collapsed by default table like code is readable enough, or will be skipped – maybe we can come up with something like what we have on https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Seed_Bag#Usage eventually? I guess we can modify the script for that. Pinging @digital helm for brainstorming whenever there'll be time (though anyone's free to throw their two cents).

The links to furniture items are nice, I hope they will be more complete when we touch SYF. 🙂 I guess it'd be possible to have them changed to a human-readable tile names, then? Though I know now, all tiles have their names. Something we'll probably solve down the road.

I also wonder, I've been removing the descriptive texts like "Can be found on shelves in grocery stores", I guess that's a right way since we have more accurate script now?

Finally, unless I'm mistaken, the scripts don't take into account items found on zombies (clothing, embedded spears/knives/katanas and no random stories (houses, vehicles, survivor, annotated maps))? If so, we'd still have to include them in distribution I guess?

Also, might a bit technical, but I guess we can link to https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Room_definitions_and_item_spawns for room names

I just realized that for seed bag we already had a table for vehicles previously; was the previous one added by hand? It seems a little bit more clear to read I guess? (Albeit less technical for modders and power users)

in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Seed_Bag#Distribution

[lucid junco]

@languid kayak @naive imp Is there a page about abandoned village near Muldraugh?

https://map.projectzomboid.com/#12457x8944x7095

[naive imp]

I don't think they're needed personally. It would be more of repeating the same thing, which I'd like to avoid if the locations aren't explicitly named

[naive imp]

Literally had no clue this existed. Wow.

I mean there isn't much there to note though? The antique oven is really the only thing that stands out to me

[lucid junco]

Always wanted to make a base there😄

Its more of a notable place in general, like Tanglewood

[naive imp]

Well we have abandoned town so I don't see why there shouldn't be a page?

Yeah was thinking the same thing

And yeah most business articles are up to date. There are some important places that are better placed in general articles imo, like police and fire stations, as a lot of these are very similar to each other and I'm trying to avoid bloat.

However, once I get through with standardizing Louisville and finishing up Doe Valley and Valley Station I do want to change how we list Unnamed locations

I've got an idea working in my head but don't have quite enough for a proof of concept yet

[lucid junco]

Also, does anyone know why Abandoned town in Riverside is referred by many as "Tanglewood"?

[naive imp]

I think because there's graffiti somewhere

Can't remember off the top of my head

[lucid junco]

I read on wiki that its because of the graffiti, but it isn't the only place where this graffiti is painted

[naive imp]

Tbh I have never heard that name before in my life but I may have just been an outlier?

Idk

[lucid junco]

Clark storage has Tanglewood graffiti

But its in Muldraugh

[naive imp]

Yeah the name like that didn't really hold up to me either but I suppose it's worth mentioning? Or maybe not?

If you want to remove that notion I don't see any harm in it

[lucid junco]

Being honest, Im already attached to the name, so Id personally just correct the trivia to it

[lucid junco]

Since you are working on Louisville, should I standardize the business category, or you will do it yourself?

[naive imp]

Well personally I'm still finishing up Valley Station and Crossroads Mall, but Louisville I think is the one town that may require a bit of a different approach.

What @proud cobalt has already set up I think is great, it's more so all the individual articles that need standardizing based on established formats.

Essentially all that needs to be done is the removal of safehouse potential on the vast majority of articles and updates to syntax and a bit of formatting

If you're looking for a project though Doe Valley could use some love

Page has been a bit abandoned since it's creation and I haven't had time to get back to it

[languid kayak]

https://www.reddit.com/r/projectzomboid/comments/pxfaik/fascinating_new_vanilla_map_area_tanglewood/

[lucid junco]

I know, currently on my nerves are:

• Doe Valley
• Muldraugh
• Riverside

[naive imp]

What's wrong with muldraugh and Riverside exactly? I hadn't noticed anything when I updated them but I may have missed some things

[languid kayak]

I also found this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTc8X_TJqoM but the Reddit post was before that IIRC

[lucid junco]

The relay station is missing

[lucid junco]

Ive passed it so many times in my playthrough that I feel that its a crime to leave it out :P

[languid kayak]

Okay, going out for a while, will be back in an hour or so 🙂

[lucid junco]

At least as a key location in the outskirts, since it takes a good portion of the map around it

[naive imp]

I see. Just be sure to fully update and standardize the article if you add any actual pages to the town links, just to make sure that it all looks neat and updated and not just a random stub in the middle of everything 😀

I haven't been on the wiki a whole lot lately, kind of in a Rimworld obsession and my girl's family is out of the country so yeah lol

[lucid junco]

I usually finish what Ive started unless It becomes too unbearable. Looking at you table stories

[lucid junco]

I mean standardizing the main Louisville page, since every other city and town has them updated like so

[naive imp]

Lol yeah I noticed. I haven't actually been on the recent edits page to check in some time which is why I threw that out there, not accusing you of anything 😀

[naive imp]

Right but Louisville has several sections, unless you mean just keeping the sections of diddrent parts of the city and standardizing the format within them?

I may have misunderstood.

[lucid junco]

I mean changing names and tables, not the businesses inside of them or their names, like what we've done with other cities

[naive imp]

Right that's what I'm saying. I was just mentioning the "central Louisville" and whatnot lists because there are different tables for different districts

Feel free to work your table magic I like what you're doing

[lucid junco]

Eg. Retail & Stores -> Retail & Commercials
Moving medical businesses to a separate medical

[lucid junco]

Aight😄

[lucid junco]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Abandoned_village
Page created

I feel like its too empty and too bloated at the same time :P

[robust latch]

I dont think its a village..? Maps says its camping grounds and it could be true.

[languid kayak]

That's why I created tasks 😄 Then it's Calvy that maniaclly does it all over the course of a week and I have to come up with new ideas to keep Calvy occupied 🦹

[languid kayak]

You think it's a village?

oh right, I think it is

Or a settlement maybe

It's been there for a while on the official map too, I'm not sure we ever got any foreshadowing/backstory bits about it at all

The most interesting thing about this settlement is that it has a graveyard

[somber jolt]

Did some testing and I found out a few things about the speed of cars in this game:

Ranger version of the Nyalia is noticibly slower than the regular and taxi versions (90 vs 70 speed)

Masterson Horizon is NOT the same as the Dart. Engine power and loudness are the same but the Horizon is significantly faster (90 vs 70 speed)

Spiffo Van, while having higher engine power as the normal Valuline is actually 10 speed slower than the Oil version. So tier looks something like Normal < Spiffo < Oil < Ambulance

Also spent about 2 hours last night verifying the formula of car speed. The stat definitely affects it so it's active in the source code

the snippet in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Engine slightly misaligns with my tests
In the same testing environment, Valuline 6 seat with 260 hp reached 60 mph in 17 seconds and max speed around 70 mph, while Valuline Ambulance with 490 hp reached 60 mph in only 4.6 seconds and max speed around 85 mph.
Wiki reports 70 and 85
My top speeds were 65 and 85 respectively

Also, the given speed stat in the lua files dont necessarily reflect top speed in-game but it definitely represents the minimum top speed it will reach.

examples:
Dart maxSpeed = 70. In-game speed reaches 88
Chevalier Nyalia Police maxSpeed = 100, in-game speed was 117
Franklin All-Terrain maxSpeed = 90, in-game speed was 100
6-seater Valuline maxSpeed = 65, in-game speed was 65
Chevalier Cossette maxSpeed = 120, in-game speed was 120 (max)

with that out of the way, here is my spreadsheet to make the wiki folk's lives easier to update. Please let me know if you need anything else.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xUZxljUT7InucHDCrsG3aVIIRrI57Ug6cX5BI_Zn6pY/edit#gid=1186433915

[somber jolt]

(Following up from the other day)

[robust latch]

D for death good one.

[somber jolt]

ignore my tierlist. That's mainly for me and my friends 😂

although I should re-evaulate them now. Dash Elite seems a lot more appealing now that I know it doesn't go any faster than a Masterson Horizon

[robust latch]

Step Van. One and only.

247 total capacity with organized

[somber jolt]

yep. the only downside is that it is large.

I think this vehicleDistributions deserves it's own page

[languid kayak]

Yeah, I think vehicles will need some love somewhere down the line too. Pinging @naive imp again for that just in case, though if someone want to steps in with the vehicles, be my guest too 😛

[robust latch]

I think Delta can step in and edit? We can also help&contribute along the way

[languid kayak]

BTW, I've been nibbling the item infobox a little, and I've been wondering whether the "Function" is really needed there – it's hard to keep it consistent and item functionality are already explained by category, tags and general page content.

For example most axes are "Chop tress" but this one is "Chopping trees" https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Wood_Axe and while most items don't list being weapons, this one does: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Kitchen_Knife

Pinging @digital helm for that too

[robust latch]

Yeah we can remove that why not. The info it gives is extremely basic anyway

[languid kayak]

Going further; we have attack_speed as well as base_speed 🤔. Seems to be the same

[robust latch]

I remember reading there are two kinds of weapon attack speed

One of them is actual data in files, the other value depends on weapon type, so that not every 1 attack speed weapon does have same attack speed. Something like that

#attack speed differences in Weapons

[languid kayak]

combat speed vs attack speed 🤔

The note you are referencing is the Attack speed differences in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Weapons

But yeah, the attack speed differ by animation, but in script files there's only one value, not sure why infobox has two; I really dout someone actually measured animation frames or something along the lines

nvm, combat speed is for clothing CombatSpeedModifier

But the fun fact is that filling attack_speed fills Combat speed 😄

[robust latch]

Bruh

[languid kayak]

-->{{#if:{{{combat_speed|}}}{{{attack_speed|}}} | {{Infobox/sandbox/row
    |{{tt|name=Infobox item|default=Combat speed|arg1=combat_speed}}
    |{{#if:{{{combat_speed|}}}
      |{{#iferror:{{#ifexpr:1 >= {{{combat_speed}}}
          |{{#expr:{{{combat_speed}}} * 100 round 0}}% <!-- 1 or less -->
          |{{{combat_speed}}} <!-- greater than 1 -->
        }}
        |{{{combat_speed}}} <!-- error -->
      }}
      |{{{attack_speed}}}
    }}
}}}}<!--

so yeah, combat_speed or attack_speed 😄

or is it and?

Anyway, below it's

-->{{#if:{{{base_speed|}}}{{{atack_speed|}}} | {{Infobox/sandbox/row
    |{{tt|name=Infobox item|default=Attack speed|arg1=attack_speed}}
    |{{#ifeq:N/A|{{{base_speed|{{{atack_speed|}}}}}}|{{tooltip|N/A|Attacks are near instant, and not influenced by a speed stat}}|{{{base_speed|{{{atack_speed|}}}}}}}}
}}}}<!--

[robust latch]

So, no problems afterall?

Both have actual values in game

[languid kayak]

Well, there's three values where two serve the same purpose in infobox 😛 Should actually be called "base speed" https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Scripts_guide/Item_Script_Parameters/BaseSpeed

Fixed that in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Infobox_item/sandbox2

[robust latch]

I wonder if they would fix this so that there would be a universal attack speed

where weapon types doesnt affect anything

in b42 i mean

[languid kayak]

Not sure how the attack speed works, I didn't seem to find (or search for) videos tackling that aspect tbh though

[lucid junco]

Pz map said that its a "camping grounds", but just by the looks and buildings themselves it's more like a village

And the room types

[languid kayak]

Anyway, I deployed a slightly modified infobox at https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Axe (with no function, and no knockback since it was deprecated, though their functionality isn't straight out removed)

Here are the parameters that are not in the infobox (not marked with ! or _ (deprecated or not verbatim included)

!    item Axe
    {
!        DisplayCategory = ToolWeapon,
!        MaxRange    =    1.2,
_        WeaponSprite    =    FireAxe,
        MinAngle    =    0.72,
_        Type    =    Weapon,
        MinimumSwingTime    =    3.0,
        KnockBackOnNoDeath    =    TRUE,
        SwingAmountBeforeImpact    =    0.002,
!        Categories    =    Axe,
!        ConditionLowerChanceOneIn    =    35,
!        Weight    =    3,
        SplatNumber    =    3,
!        PushBackMod    =    0.3,
_        SubCategory    =    Swinging,
!        ConditionMax    =    13,
        MaxHitCount    =    2,
!        DoorDamage    =    35,
        IdleAnim    =    Idle_Weapon2,
        SwingAnim    =    Bat,
!        DisplayName    =    Axe,
!        MinRange    =    0.61,
_        SwingTime    =    3.0,
        HitAngleMod    =    -30,
        SplatSize    =    5,
_        KnockdownMod    =    2,
        SplatBloodOnNoDeath    =    TRUE,
!        Icon    =    Axe,
        RunAnim    =    Run_Weapon2,
!       TwoHandWeapon = TRUE,
        DoorHitSound = AxeHit,
        HitSound = AxeHit,
        HitFloorSound = AxeHit,
        SwingSound = AxeSwing,
        BreakSound  =   AxeBreak,
!       TreeDamage  =   35,
!       MetalValue = 120,
!       CriticalChance    =    20,
!       CritDmgMultiplier = 5,
!       BaseSpeed = 1,
!       MinDamage    =    0.8,
!       MaxDamage    =    2,
        WeaponLength = 0.38,
!        DamageCategory = Slash,
        DamageMakeHole = TRUE,
!        AttachmentType = BigWeapon,
!        Tags = ChopTree;CutPlant,
    }

(discord broke some formatting)

Probably the most interesting not included on the infobox is WeaponLength https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Scripts_guide/Item_Script_Parameters/WeaponLength

But there's also the ones that involve multi-hit: MaxHitCount https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Scripts_guide/Item_Script_Parameters/MaxHitCount and MinAngle https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Scripts_guide/Item_Script_Parameters/MinAngle and HitAngleMod https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Scripts_guide/Item_Script_Parameters/HitAngleMod (at least I understand the MinAngle and HitAngleMod are for multi hit only)

[robust latch]

But there are dressing rooms and public toilets though

[languid kayak]

(SwingAmountBeforeImpact should be excluded too, it's deprecated)

[robust latch]

And there are no ground to grow crops in or shelter the livestock

[languid kayak]

I'm still genuinely interested in the graveyard lol

There's animal stables(?) too

[robust latch]

Actually yeah i might be on wrong here

Doesnt look like dressing rooms, the one building on west

A s*it ton of loot on the shelves of western cabin

A lot of ammo-> correction just ammo. no guns

But the alaturca public toilets are there, also ammo is just openly on the shelves in that western cabin

found some recipe magazines in this, one of them is a hunter magazine (could be a considence)

[lucid junco]

Coincidence :P

Its just that the building had a living room type all over it, so it spawns Items like in living room

[robust latch]

Also this "hide" on ground

Or crack?

Could be a crack

[languid kayak]

crack 😄

room definitions are interesting tough

So a pig sty, a church and a hunting storage room. The rest are regular homes (hunting cabins?) with bathrooms

[robust latch]

If i didnt see the western cabin with its public toilets and ammo shelves

[languid kayak]

I wonder why this is classified as livingroom though I guess it might as well be a bug

[robust latch]

i would give up and say its some old, old village

But i cant unlook that cabin

[languid kayak]

this one?

This one's weird building too, but probably the damaged/unfinished construction

There's this estimates from https://pzwiki.net/w/images/5/58/Map-will-3_estimates.jpg at https://discord.com/channels/136501320340209664/1195687717233770607 estimating the locations but nothing about it in particular, and I'd take it with a grain of salt anyway

Funny how there's no zombies there too

[languid kayak]

This one parameter I don't fully understand: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Scripts_guide/Item_Script_Parameters/KnockBackOnNoDeath – is the description right?

[proud cobalt]

It shouldn't have been but I'll run a search shortly

[proud cobalt]

I have absolutely no idea how it's calculated otherwise I would have looked into it. I considered not including rolls at all and just having a dictionary for chance. Something like
<0.01 extremely rare
0.01-.1 very rare
0.1-1 rare
1-10 common
10-100 very common

I prefer the collapsed table. If someone's looking for it they will find it. But if they're not it's easy to skip it, unlike a list of up to hundreds of locations

Only reason the descriptive lines still exist is because it's too hard to determine what to keep and what not to with a bot.

It does not include items found on zombies. I don't know how that works

Other table format could be done, would just require more work

[proud cobalt]

I do do that

[proud cobalt]

You seem to be the most knowledgeable about this. Have you considered adding the info yourself. Its simple to get started

[proud cobalt]

Here

[somber jolt]

I dont have much experience in editing wikis but I can try.

Can I just directly edit the vehicles page?

current plan is to remove the "Total Storage" and "Glove Compartment" section in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Vehicles#Available_vehicles

and add maxSpeed and brakingForce

and somewhere else in the same page, summarize Glove Compartment sizes and have a general statement about brakingForce vs maxSpeed

I would like to remove mentions is 'horsepower' as the game doesn't really use that as a measurement.

[somber jolt]

I hope people like this format more

[lucid junco]

Another evidence that it had been abandoned

And also the overgrown path to it :P

I think there is more evidence that its a village, than the camping grounds. Though I think the best way to definitively find out is asking devs

[lucid junco]

Also good morning nerds

[languid kayak]

while there's no visual editor (yet), it's not so hard really, definitely easier than coding unless you touch core templatse (but we try to make it as easy as possible on editors to just click edit and change value; there's a pinned video about a speedrun to do so) 😄

And for the rest there's https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Help:Contents – I tried it to be accurate, but if there's something missing (other than old screenshots; we changed the default theme, but you can swap them in preferences after logging), let me know!

[somber jolt]

thanks for the resources

[proud cobalt]

@languid kayak I merged your requests, also i think i figured out spawning give me some time and i might have an example ready

[languid kayak]

spawning as in what?

[proud cobalt]

Loot spawn chances

[proud cobalt]

New image after some tweaks

Updated -> Effective chance calculations are based off of default loot settings, and median zombie density. The higher the density of zombies in an area, the higher the effective chance of an item spawning. Chance is also influenced by the [[lucky]] and [[unlucky]] traits

[digital helm]

There's some overly complicated stuff in infobox_item, so may need to relook at some parts

[digital helm]

function can be removed if obvious/redundant

[digital helm]

My preference is to be the total change from the vhs/cd. But if it's like this, I think it should be -25 per line (keep it simple)

[lucid junco]

Hi Vaileasys

[digital helm]

I think you know I liked the 'base durability' stat for the reason this video even exists. "Durability/Condition is overly complicated". Base durability was the average number of hits it would take for a weapon to break, at level 0 in maintenance and that weapon type. Which to me was far easier for comparing weapons, since that's what actually mattered to the reader. Otherwise the reader needs to do some mental maths themselves to determine what that value is. Since trying to compare weapon's "Max condition" or "Condition lower chance" doesn't tell anything on their own. A weapon can have a high max condition, but low condition lower chance, and vice versa. So the only value, in my view, that the reader would care about, is combining those values for an average (something that they can actually compare with each other)

[lucid junco]

@languid kayak@naive imp What do we do with businesses/brands that arent technically present within the game

Like Citr-8 Wave

And should we call this "Hidden drug lab" or just "Drug lab"?

Two separate questions :P