📚marathon-lore-discussion

[eternal shell]

when traxus kit exists

[dreamy hawk]

I like the hardline. 🤷

[stiff hearth]

traxus so bad even the paid one is bad

[dreamy hawk]

It’s probably one of my favorites.

[stiff hearth]

doesn’t give a shield at all

[dreamy hawk]

Yeah that bit sucks on that kit.

[craggy finch]

Vulcan the type to work in an insult restaurant

[dreamy hawk]

I’m assuming that’s exactly what it sounds like?

[craggy finch]

yeah the staff talk shit at you as part of the gimmick

[stiff hearth]

especially in theme restaurants

got to a pirate restaurant and they will probably tease you all night

[dreamy hawk]

I’m in the wrong line of work.

[weak gyro]

Part of me wishes the runners got to interact with (aka be talked at by) Orion more. His splash screen is just imposing in a good way, and has a great VA.

Outside of the initial breach it's just the occasional snippet from contracts

[stiff hearth]

we will hear more as soon as their ship arrive for sure

The Equanimity

[weak gyro]

Huh, that I didn't know

[stiff hearth]

yeah there is one literally on the way as we speak. about a year out but idk if that is real time or just until the season he is supposed to arrive in

like season 2 could be a time skip

[dreamy hawk]

• maybe

It’s actually unclear if it’s on the way or arrived. Dates suggest it hasn’t, but other things kinda lean towards it maybe having arrived?

I don’t think there’s a consensus on the status of the equanimity outside of what the ARG implies.

[strong glade]

thats crazy work

[earnest hatch]

I thought the equanimity was how UESC robots were being dropped onto the planet. If that’s not it, then is there another ship in orbit?

[stiff hearth]

yeah idk

Equanimity is only mentioned in the ARG so we dunno anything more from the codex yet

i assumed they were on the marathon getting deployed automatically

[earnest hatch]

Well the robots and the runners have to be coming from somewhere nearby.

[stiff hearth]

uesc doesn’t seem to be exploring marathon they are occupying it

[earnest hatch]

There’s entries saying that Orion has trouble getting robots back from the marathon or loses contact with them once they get onto the marathon. So they’re not coming from there.

[stiff hearth]

ah hmm idk then

[rapid cave]

And thats why I think they r coming from no where but tau ceti/the marathon
I am in support of the theory that the "terrible things" the colonists done was upload their brains, and I think the runners are actually the colonists

[stiff hearth]

arg said they were a year out but it wasn’t like this was a prerelease arg it was to unlock cryo so i feel it couldn’t be here yet

[rapid cave]

If u look up at the sky you can see everything but the supposed ship we and the UESC came abroad

[stiff hearth]

that’s the Marathon lol

we did not come from that

[weak gyro]

Given how robots can both arrive via dropships and get teleported in, and both ftl Comms + dcons exist... Maybe they're teleported in

But

[plucky sierra]

There is 0 evidence for this despite it being a cool theory

[rapid cave]

Yeah exactly thats what im saying, you can see the marathon but not the ship we came with

[weak gyro]

I imagine that's probably not practical or healthy otherwise why send the marathon

[stiff hearth]

i think the ship runners are from is hidden maybe on a moon

[rapid cave]

Why would it be hidden if its official? And even if then what about the UESC ship? Where are they coming from?

[stiff hearth]

runners are illegal in tau ceti according to the uesc

we are not allowed to be there

[plucky sierra]

Orion states explicitly we arrived on a corpo sponsored ship

He legally can’t attack the ship

[stiff hearth]

(because he was paid off by traxus)

[rapid cave]

So all the corpos built a ship that could travel to tau ceti in less than 80 years when the marathon took 300 and the UESC didnt know/have a hand in?

[plucky sierra]

Because of the corporate non-violence treaty that is also the reason Traxus can’t attack the UESC and works through us.

[weak gyro]

We're not people, so we're both exempt from and unprotected by a lot of laws

[turbid sleet]

Small ship vs big ship maybe? Colony vs printer?

[dusky nymph]

I think there is a Big Bug in Space that Carries Runners to Tau Ceti

[plucky sierra]

There is legal ambiguity about if the UESC can lockdown the planet or the corps are within their salvage rights, so the non-violence treaty prevents aggression toward each other hence runners

[plucky sierra]

What kind of bug?

[stiff hearth]

that too but that doesn’t really hold any jurisdiction all the way out here. there are logs between vulcan and orion and Vulcan basically paid them off to get them to not investigate where runners are coming from in exchange for funding the UESC Tau Ceti operation

[plucky sierra]

A WEAVEmoth perhaps?

[dreamy hawk]

A potato bug.

[plucky sierra]

Which logs.

[dreamy hawk]

Sorta. It has more to do with our extra legal work than our digitized existence afaik.

[plucky sierra]

Vulcan is in contact with the UESC but not in that way

[dreamy hawk]

It explicitly does in one of the codex entries.

[dreamy hawk]

https://codex.cyberacme.systems/entry/uesc-casualty?search=0.1

NAME: UESC ROLE: Interplanetary governmental / military alliance JURISDICTION: Earth, Luna, Mars, Inner-Sol Planetary Space, Tau Ceti IV

[rapid cave]

The evidence for what I stated is as follows:
-there are no visible ship for eother us, corpos or the UESC in orbit

• in the first intro mission, the colony ai that greets you starts friendly then glitches and says that you should die (smth along those lines) and then the bots deploy (suggesting he was in control) the UESC wouldve not appointed a rampant ai (assuming rampant cause as stated he becomes bipolar)
• in one of the videos uploaded pre cryo (mb took a hiatus from marathon so forgot the small details but ill send the vid after this) the colonists says " we did terrible things that we would have never imagined" and so far theres no proof of anything (cannibalism etc)

[earnest orchid]

Omg.
THANK YOU.
I totally forgot Orion excited at all.
The voice line I was asking about earlier on dire marsh is 100% Orion talking about killin runners 😂

Agreed tho, Orion is a really cool antagonist

[dreamy hawk]

Yes. Technology has advanced significantly. Even the Equanimity is more than 3x faster than the Marathon.

And we know runners arrived on “sponsored transport” in less than ten years, which would be even faster.

[high ore]

More lore

[rapid cave]

Its mainly a theory based on that theres no other way of explaining how us and the UESC are here + all the rampancy and the disappearance of the colonists

I swear there were more details but famn im already rusty. Ill prolly have to compile more data to be coherent 😅

[dreamy hawk]

I can break down a few of those in a little bit if you’re interested.

[lunar cove]

The marathon was launched several hundred years before the rescue mission. Engines likely improved over that time

[plucky sierra]

• we are stated to have “arrived on sponsored transport” there’s a lot of potential reasons.
• the ai that says that is one of the Colony AIs rampant and not in control of the bots, the terminal also sets off a security alarm alerting the UESC, they’re controlled by a different AI
• Terrible things include: milking ticks, covering up, lying and gaslighting thousands of colonists about an alien attack diagnosing them with fake diseases, quarantine and incineration of live colonists infected with an unknown contagion, spying on colonists as well

[coral vale]

it's kinda insane to think that the Sol system might have been able to send a second ship that would have arrived before the Marathon to Tau Ceti IV if they improved their engines just a little bit more

[dreamy hawk]

I was looking up codex entries but Felwinter got the answers out faster. 😂

[dreamy hawk]

Imagine the sting of being a BoB, arriving to TCIV after generations of your family died aboard never seeing the end, and there’s an FTL capable ship acting as a welcoming committee for you in orbit.

There’s some story I recall that plays with that idea but IDK which right now.

[burnt nebula]

Future generation BoBs wouldn't wanna live a life any different to being on the ship, that's all they would know

[dreamy hawk]

How do you mean?

[burnt nebula]

They'd be all institutionalised

[dreamy hawk]

They worked in the colony after arrival.

[burnt nebula]

Like a guy who was in prison for 25 years then he gets out and gets depressed cos prison was all he knew

[dreamy hawk]

While I’m sure some folks struggled to adjust, BoBs left the Marathon and were ground side. They made up the bulk of the population.

[burnt nebula]

Fair. I just imagine the experience would be horrible for them

Like the sky would scare the crap out of them

They'd just wanna go back to the ship

[stiff hearth]

do we know how many are still in cryo?

[spare bison]

Already making the first page of the fan comic I talk about yesterday!! gonna upload it tomorrow ; )

Also hi guys lol ! ^^/

[burnt nebula]

Hello

[dreamy hawk]

Not that I’m aware. They kept thawing folks more or less until the end and then some folks talked about returning, but no numbers for anything afaik.

[spare bison]

Haha yea

I think that the alien bosses (forgot the name lmao)

In the USSC marathon

Are just up to 4 max in there

[spare bison]

Btw the cover is already in #🎨marathon-community-art-chat hehehe

[rancid fractal]

Please fix Ai health and density for solos

[dreamy hawk]

#1478943000792006768

[rancid fractal]

Ohh I am sorry

[dreamy hawk]

Or #1478943087957905550

[rancid fractal]

Thank you

[dreamy hawk]

No worries! It happens; you just won’t get much traction here. 🙂

[spare bison]

Hey lord

Since the cryo update has there been more voice mails or mails or something?

[dreamy hawk]

What kind of mail? Like from Daddy D?

[spare bison]

No like

The ones in game

[dreamy hawk]

Oh. I think I’ve gotten one or two but I don’t recall what about.

But nothing story related.

[spare bison]

Man :/

Is ok tho lol

[dreamy hawk]

I assume we won’t get anything new until the next season. Lore wise the game is in a hold, unless someone finds something we haven’t otherwise stumbled upon yet.

[spare bison]

Nah I think we got it all atm lol

Till june I guess :/

[stiff hearth]

we will see what happens as we get closer to season 2

i suspect we might have another ARG eventually

[plucky sierra]

I hope it requires more in game this time

[spare bison]

Same!

[burnt nebula]

I miss when the terminals would say stuff on them

[keen plank]

Expect things to happen as we get drip fed more story bits and more people discover new things.

[high ore]

I miss when terminals let me pee in them

[keen plank]

When all of the new trinkets are exfilled with at once, something is apparently supposed to happen.

[dusky nymph]

Season two preview had two (redacted) threats in night dire marsh. So curious what's gonna happen there

[eternal shell]

very much off topic but there's a new boards of canada song out \:D/

[dreamy hawk]

I don’t know who that is but I am happy for you!

[dreamy hawk]

Inb4 mimics

[eternal shell]

their last release was in 2013

[eternal shell]

a rook approaches you, saying "thank god it's you!" then detonates like 10 claymores. (this is a perfectly standard rook and has nothing to do with mimics)

[night tendon]

That might be a while. The trinkets are so rare most players don’t even know they exist

[dreamy hawk]

Which trinkets?

[night tendon]

Presumably the contraband ones but im just spitballing that

I can’t imagine the green ones matter lol

[dreamy hawk]

I just not have seen one because I have no clue what yall are talking about. Not the lore collectibles?

[dim edge]

honestly might be a fun thing to do for meme runs

[eternal shell]

gain ||uesc|| rep by blasting runner squads as a rook

[night tendon]

They’re super rare valuables that you bring into a run and it gives you something if you exfil with it

One of them is called durandal snippet if you wanted to look it up

[dreamy hawk]

Ohhhh those. Yes. The Pollen one, too? Gotcha.

Ty.

[hidden geyser]

the rook comes around the corner
"frog blast the vent core"

kaboom

[bold karma]

You know, with Orion, the more I learn about that guy, the more I don’t care for him

[dreamy hawk]

Oh?

[sharp vine]

Just wondering is it likely to be the Phor?

[dreamy hawk]

He's a pretty bad guy but I feel like he had good depth.

[dusky nymph]

Does Orion show up in anymore cut scenes or just his intro

[dreamy hawk]

With only two new enemeis being introduced I don't think so, but it could just be a lot of lone Pfhor without client species.

[plucky sierra]

I hope it is Anomalous bots personally, maybe Fungal bots or colonists

[dreamy hawk]

I want mimics and zombies.

[plucky sierra]

there is hints at much harder bots doing the will of the Anomaly (currently the UESC decommissions them all)

[sharp vine]

That’s genius - fungal bots 😄

Though I wonder how the colonists would be a threat, unless they attack us in large numbers

[earnest hatch]

I’d love it to be Pfhor, but I doubt it this early. A whole new enemy faction would take extra modeling, skeletal rigging, animation, behavior coding, balancing, etc. So unless they were already almost finished developing the Pfhor before release, then I doubt they’d have the resources to add them for the first several seasons.

[plucky sierra]

Maybe we will get UESC runners to fight, we know there is around 6 of them currently, a periodic event perhaps?

[dreamy hawk]

That would be amazing imo

[plucky sierra]

The bots already move really well, I am sure they could tweak it a bit and it'd feel like we're fighting people

[dreamy hawk]

Pfhor would work well with Fallen movement, imo, and we already see those.

[sage lark]

And the fungus zombies with the taken/hive movement

[floral slate]

idk if it was already said but saw an artist point out the hive are literally the pfhor but naked

maybe a bit dehydrated too

[dreamy hawk]

Ironic, considering their origins.

[plucky sierra]

The Pfhor were split so their culture and empire influenced what the Cabal are, but their look and description seem to have influenced the hive

[earnest hatch]

An empire of highly stratified insectoid creatures that has passed their prime and now clutches to the remnants of their lost relevance? I don’t see the connection. /s

[sharp vine]

Ah I see

[sudden pollen]

This server is so much much better with general chat entirely removed lmao

[eternal shell]

it's nice to show up every now and then and say something unhelpful

in fact, one sec

[pure wagon]

One will be mimics. Guaranteed

[sudden pollen]

👀

Night Marsh is going to be fucking peak calling it now

If Cryo was as incredible as it is, I have 100% faith in them cooking up new maps

[patent siren]

how bad was general chat 💀

[sudden pollen]

Rancid

I got timed out for an entire WEEK for arguing with and trash talking some troll accounts

So I just am not chatting there at all anymore

[pure wagon]

Eh it won’t be all that wild imo. It’s still dire marsh. The map itself I doubt will change

[sudden pollen]

I could see them adding more stuff in there, like the top part of Complex for example

Inaccessible rn

[torpid briar]

My concern with Night Marsh is that it wont play much different, itll just be blue tinted. I hope they open a section of the map or add a new map event or something just so its not the same exact map with different lighting

Or at least go all out with the night time and make it legit pretty dark

[sudden pollen]

It would be quite disappointing but I think it'll be more than just that

Yea full dark would be sick

[pure wagon]

It’s gonna be dark. Also I heard something about a rly bad storm

[sudden pollen]

But give the shells a night vision goggle or something with it

[dusky nymph]

Full dark w shells having either lights or night vis would be so insane

[sudden pollen]

Yep

[torpid briar]

I like the idea of lights because theres like a bit of give and take. On one hand you can see, on the other youre super easy to spot. Turning out lights and hiding in the tree line sounds like some vietnam shit and i cant wait

[spare bison]

Already posted my comic !

[sudden pollen]

💯

Genuinely though after seeing Cryo I have full faith in Night Marsh being more than just "dire marsh lights turned off"

I am hope pilled

[dreamy hawk]

Donde?

[pure wagon]

I jsut hope it’s as scary as the lore logs and the hints in the world made it out to be

[spare bison]

Tapas ! Is call nona

[sudden pollen]

Same I want them to go all in on the Cosmic Horror aspects

Hallucinations, ghosts, etc.

[spare bison]

Yeee the good stuff lmao

[sudden pollen]

Hell even runner mimics could be fucking peak

Like you think you see an enemy runner, pings look like it, but then it contorts onto all fours and rushes you or something crazy

[pure wagon]

While speaking in prox chat with a messed up voice of the player

[sudden pollen]

Would be crazy

[analog jungle]

This gave me goosebumps just reading it. Seeing it in-game I'd probably scream at the top of my lungs. A+++ I hope we get this

[pure wagon]

Why would you scream? That’s such a weird thing to do. Don’t you know what you’re supposed to do?

Mag dump

And keep mag dumping

No ammo? Use the ammo from your team mates corpses

Until it gets you

[weary portal]

Could someone be so kind to explain to me what I need to do to get into pinwheel? I’ve been stuck on rank 3 for SekGen because I can’t ever get into the base 😩

[earnest hatch]

There’s like three or four different ways to get in. You can also wait for someone else to unlock it and go in after them. When someone unlocks pinwheel it notifies the whole map: Security breach pinwheel.

That’s not a precise answer but you should be able to figure it out pretty easily. It’s the same mechanic as using the exfils on this map.

[dreamy hawk]

I can show you when I’m back Saturday.

But ^

[earnest relic]

There are multiple key cards scattered around the map:

green keycards are laying around on desks and in bathrooms etc.

Yellow keycards are inside of white and yellow colored devices on countertops/attached to some walls that you have to interact with in order to obtain said keycard

Orange/master keys have 4 guaranteed spawn points across the map inside of devices in which you interact with to obtain.

To get inside of pinwheel you only need to find two green keycards. There are interactable devices near three possible main pinwheel doors. You use two green cards to start opening the door. It spawns some blue shielded UESC. Kill the UESC then there is a interactable device in which you have to hack inside of the hallway you just opened. This starts hacking the red laser door and spawns a ton of UESC. After about a minute the red laser door is lowered and you can enter the pinwheel.

Hope that helps

[dreamy hawk]

Also I have so many priority contracts to get done. D:

[latent python]

I very possibly will be able to play this weekend with you too

[dreamy hawk]

Also the golden retriever would be a skin stealer. 😂

[latent python]

The one thing I'm not sure about is what yellow cards are used for

Reds are used to open a special loot room

[dreamy hawk]

Various things. Some locked rooms through the map or to get into command iirc.

[latent python]

Ah okay

[earnest relic]

Two yellows and one green is used to open armories around the map. There are 3 total. One in dorms, one in processing, and one in flight control. They have two arms lockers and a strongbox in each of them

[earnest hatch]

Yellow is for “vault” rooms, supply drops, and summoning loot drones. Yellow = gold = treasure

[dreamy hawk]

What gets you into the command wing again? Is that the switches?

[earnest hatch]

Switches

[earnest relic]

One button in the drone wing and one button in the destroyed wing, both closer to the end of the wings

[earnest hatch]

One on each of the other wings. And the other secret entrances into pinwheel start you off right next to one of them each.

[dreamy hawk]

Ive only ever done half the steps; someone always ends up doing the others in my runs so my mental map is fragmented.

[earnest hatch]

It’s actually really clever level design. You use a secret entrance and you’re already half way to opening command wing.

[remote magnet]

Open pinwheel, find and activate the switches in the 2 other wings, wiggle the hulu dancer figurine, fight of the UESC swarms, profit

[earnest hatch]

Although I think it’s a bit crazy that you need to use a gold and green key to summon a supply drop. Outpost is so small that supply drops are already massively dangerous. Literally every player can reach you. To put a lock on top of it seems overkill for risk and difficulty.

[remote magnet]

+, survive 30 rooks

[latent python]

Also that you have to keep returning to the middle, increasing the chances of conflict

[remote magnet]

And there isnt even anything better then in the other maps in the supply drop

[latent python]

Increasing but not guaranteeing conflict

[analog jungle]

I would scream while mag dumping, of course

[remote magnet]

The supply drones, they are worth it. Found a blue room key for outpost in one once

[pure wagon]

An acceptable alternative

[remote magnet]

Speaking of drones, i saw a weird drone recently on dire marsh, only time ive ever seen it. It was scanning some of the floating wreckage near the anomalie. Dumped 2 mags of ammo into it, it didnt seem to care

[earnest hatch]

It’s quest related drone

[remote magnet]

Thought so. But couldnt be sure

[strong glade]

ok so when we’re not in a game our conciousness is not in a body right? its somewhere digitally stored, what about our storage? Is it like on a spaceship we own? or stored on tau ceti somewhere?

[latent python]

Probably on a spaceship, unnamed as of yet

[remote magnet]

The UESC Mingus

[latent python]

Probably not UESC

[torpid briar]

Probs something from SekGen or CyAc

[drifting mulch]

Still unknown where we’re “physically” stored (isn’t that a conundrum?) but we are wholly owned by CyberAcme so their place. We are “post-flesh” so no bodies, presumably

[remote magnet]

Ah, but you gotta think, reverse psychology

[earnest hatch]

The UESC I’m Not UESC, I Promise

[latent python]

The CyAc Where's My Goddamn Transponder Spoofer

[torpid briar]

I will say, this is probably not really canon anymore, but in the reveal cinematic, the debriefing area where Vandal is asked some questions has lots of UESC branding all over

[remote magnet]

Also, we know from the arg that Traxus spearheaded the runners beeing in Tau Ceti, so its propably a Traxus ship.

[latent python]

It kinda seems like everything is a mess of corporate and government interests

[remote magnet]

tbf, the "government" in this case is run and works like just another corporation

Its just not a corp in name only

[latent python]

It's the frontier, whaddya gonna do

[remote magnet]

Durandal for president

Or actually, rather not

[earnest hatch]

Big Tick for President

Milk for all!

[remote magnet]

And warm hugs! Glomp

[torpid briar]

Bug on dire marsh for president

[strong glade]

makes sense so we prolly got like a storage locker at that corp or something. I wonder if we really were human or if we just an AI created to fight

[latent python]

Cow for president

[torpid briar]

The reveal cinematic implies we each have our own pod/reconstitution chamber/cradle

[empty flume]

I never really figured out and kinda just forgot, but the assumption is that Orion got into a bit of an accident by the end of the story line so far right

I think it was the last mida quest?

No confirmed KIA but something definitely happened

[plucky sierra]

He’s a shell

He can’t be KIA, just force ejected

[empty flume]

I think that's the question they're leaving hung
Especially considering they've said in the shell entries that shells are just a really common form to take in labor
So a good portion of humanity probably don't even use their real bodies for lengthy durations I imagine

Oh that actually relates to the previous conversation huh lol

I just kinda assumed he was the one real body but now that I think about it that makes more sense

I think I just blanked on that because the uesc is largely autonomous on tau ceti

I think even the commanders are autonomous right

I don't know about the wardens

[plucky sierra]

There’s a contingent of real people, we don’t know how many are using shells but probably a lot. 6 are “runners” and Orion is one of them. Wardens and ARS are controlled by an AI

[empty flume]

I wonder if we'd get their shell type eventually
Enforcer or something
Could lead to some interesting ideas I feel

Considering the current game already I wouldn't rule out them it behind some really confusing and convoluted questline either

[wooden wing]

I recently found an audiolog of (Gideon Spoilers) ||Gideon frying a guy to death||. I'm super interested in what's goin on there lol

especially since he was supposedly much more empathetic than a lot of other AIs

[plucky sierra]

Gabriel

Probably went crazy

[wooden wing]

right, my bad

[plucky sierra]

Gideon would be a great name to though

[dreamy hawk]

Everytime I hear the name Gideon I think of Giancarlo Esposito.

[wooden wing]

I'm obsessed with Marathons depiction of Rampancy. The Autistic hyperfixation is fucking REAL lmao

[random bear]

i finally found another tickmilk for my last piece of tickmilk lore lmaooo yummy

[cosmic forge]

I think of Rocky Raccoon - The Beatles White Album

[narrow jungle]

I saw a report dated "present day" in codex mentioning (spoilers) ||UESC officer Dias, and when he was found after disappearing in the anomaly he displayed aging quote "biocybernetics deterioration indicative of many years without maintenance"
So it appears the "important" UESC guys not only act from robots, but with "runner" shells too?||

[eternal shell]

he could be a human with cybernetics

bobs get those cyber-monacles in m2 and infinity, im imagining that kind of thing

[narrow jungle]

Augmented human in a sense could be yes; good point

[dreamy hawk]

Nearly every human in Marathon is augmented.

I forget the exact stat but it’s a majority. One second.

[narrow jungle]

Dont forget the green shirt augmentation

[eternal shell]

m1 bobs look like regular dudes to me

[dreamy hawk]

· Key statistic: 78% of people across all Sol settlements have some kind of bioimplant. Common sense dictates that bioimplants and related technologies require mandatory data collection for safety and effectiveness. Such 'surveillance' is accepted as normal and preferrable. Reference as needed high-profile incidents of injury and death from unregulated implants, such as the autoamputation epidemic (see dossier from Comms team for more details and examples).

https://codex.cyberacme.systems/entry/evidence-folder/leaked-pr-campaign?search=privacy

[narrow jungle]

Thank you! I see. And I suppose "high-ish" ranking officers would have corpo augments

Aight then thats my question answered, appreciated

[dreamy hawk]

There is some debate as to whether he's actually human or someone in a shell, though. I'm inclined towards the former, myself, but we don't have clear evidence of any human-humans actually in TCIV currently.

[narrow jungle]

Maaybbeee the voice logs from the Mida mission where you bug their rooms?

Could be a stretch

[dreamy hawk]

It's kinda contingent on the status of the Equanimity and all we have is the ARG doc, which suggests it hasn't arrived, but that creates some other questions.

[narrow jungle]

Especially timeline wise etc

I think the game is in TL 8 or so

not sure

[dreamy hawk]

Running assumption is final infinity timeline, so 7? But I actually never finished so IDK how many timelines there actually were.

[narrow jungle]

yeye 7 mb; I believe 7 is also the total

[dreamy hawk]

Do you remember which step? I wanna look them up.

[narrow jungle]

uhhh it was like "loot equipment" etc, ill check my clips

[dreamy hawk]

Or like, some details from the entries?

[narrow jungle]

Yea! ill link the log

its voicelog

[dreamy hawk]

Appreciate.

[narrow jungle]

Truth/Lies 4/6

https://codex.cyberacme.systems/entry/truth-lies-4-6?directory=Factions,MIDA

Thats one of them

[lilac sapphire]

Equanimity hosts the runners too, no?

[dreamy hawk]

Clones and other biomata, yeah.

I'm convinced Diaz is human because we know digital consciousnesses have backups on CyAc's servers incase they can't properly eject upon death. It's been argued that if there's a constant stream of data to the backup to prevent them from loosing time/memories if that happens, and I don't have a counter, but I don't think they'd quarantine a shell.

[narrow jungle]

So he is for sure augmented then as a majority are back home on sol

I assume the numbers would be even higher for tau ceti for obvious reasons

[dreamy hawk]

If he’s human he’s augmented. If he’s not human he is an augment.

So yeah.

[narrow jungle]

very interesting, I guess their completly robotic presence for runners could be explained by them testing their illegal AI

[dreamy hawk]

We do only see the ARS units; Orions team is very small from what we’ve seen.

[narrow jungle]

Also in run hide 3/6 in the code fragment of the unit

it says for the targets "query: target != BIOSYNTH; UNREGISTERED "

so biosynths are present for sure

or atleast present with those units

[dreamy hawk]

Lemme read that one real quick.

[narrow jungle]

its for target classification but oni calls the biosynths runners here that could be the case too

[dreamy hawk]

Oh that's 100% us.

`[IF]

 scan: area == COMPROMISE  
 [AND]  
 query: target == HOSTILE

 [AND] 
 query: target != BIOSYNTH; UNREGISTERED 
 query: target != FAUNA; KNOWN 
 query: target != UNIT; MALFUNCTION`

And implies there's a rogue ARS units running around.

[narrow jungle]

Quite interesting actually yea

[dreamy hawk]

There's a codex entry about a unit also getting lost in the anomaly and returning with a bunch of combat experience/upgrades. I'm blanking on which rn.

[narrow jungle]

I belive its from a collectible no?

[dreamy hawk]

Maybe? I can see it in my head, but nothing I can search for.

[lilac sapphire]

ARS?

Bots?

[dreamy hawk]

Yeah, the bots. I forget what it stands for now, of course.

OVERVIEW: The RECRUIT is the base model in the UESC's Autonomous Robotic Soldier initiative. It is designed for general security and light combat duty, with operational programming engineered to function within a linked patrol unit. Its primary role is to identify and engage threats to its assigned area of protection.

Autonomous Robotic Soldier

[plucky sierra]

👀

[plucky sierra]

It’s a Traxus contract

[dreamy hawk]

https://codex.cyberacme.systems/entry/unsanctioned-hostilities-4-5

Certainly is!

Ty friend. 🙂

[dreamy hawk]

And I know; I was thinking of what your theory from earlier. 👀

[earnest hatch]

Confirmed: you get to play the original Marathon for years if you go into the anomaly.

[lilac sapphire]

Cycle 77777: Isolation successful
Cycle 777778: Authoring containment procedures
777778-77777=700,001

😮 😮 😮 😮

the lore implications of this are insane

just kidding

[keen plank]

“What could possibly go wrong?”

[unreal sierra]

deadass imagine if mjolnir recon 54 was just a UESC unit this whole time /j

[empty flume]

i think there's a non zero possibility the officer could be a boss in this game right

[keen plank]

Very unlikely.

Non-zero, sure. But by the end of Infinity, the Security Officer is so unfathomably powerful that unlike (seemingly) Durandal, it's able to escape the Big Crunch.

[empty flume]

the assumption is that the UESC (or a corpo i guess) has access to FTL travel, right? Otherwise there's no way we could send people so quickly to tau ceti equipped with such a large amount of resources (both from the UESC and runner perspectives). If there are real body people near Marathron, that's the assumption that would clear/dispell that idea at last.

That's the part that I'm really not quite sure how they explained, because we don't see a fleet anywhere, but I'm quite sure there was some mention of local ships in orbit somewhere; I just don't remember where

[empty flume]

that's assuming it is the infinity officer, right? Though that goes into a discussion of whether it matters which timeline it might be because they can jump between them

like, does the worst case scenario timeline officers have the same ability? or is "the one" the only one capable to jumping and they replaced the original officer when they take it over? what happens after they leave? say for example the one timeline where durandul (or was it tycho?) ejects them into space and the officer jumps timelines right then and there; I think the assumption is that they died...but what if they didn't?

my thought was that if this is another timeline, we might find one that didn't succeed to transcend
and considering how strong a compiler is in this game, they would be oh very very strong indeed; good raid boss idea i feel

[keen plank]

While this is certainly possible, even without the Infinity timeline being the one we're in, which is increasingly more likely, it's hard to describe just how dangerous the Security Officer actually is.

[hidden kiln]

I am personally of the belief this is an alternate timeline just given how much has already been retconned independently of the security officer’s implication on the lore

[keen plank]

Every single Mjolnir Battleroid is an absolute killing machine. And the officer is a killing machine ** to** the killing machines. They are that far above them.

• it's implied they may have the same corpse as the Pathways into Darkness protagonist.

[empty flume]

the option is there is what I'm thinking
and I think people would enjoy it in a multitude of ways, as long as they do it right
I'm saying all this without having fought the compiler myself yet so

[keen plank]

What's more likely, Skal, is that we eventually see at least some of the 9 other missing battlerorids in some form in the future. Nona knows more than she lets on.

Fighting one of them, maybe one under the service of one of the missing rogue AI is certainly possible.

[hidden kiln]

I think a battleroid fight has to be more akin to a d1/d2 raid encounter than the compiler fight is, otherwise I think the grandiose will be lost

[empty flume]

could be, though that might too close tobungie's past experiences
i'm quite sure that's a boss in destiny...1? doesn't rasputin do that
though on the other hand maybe it's a tried and true way too

maybe you fight 3 at once if you're thinking of the other roids

[keen plank]

The compiler is closer to a Dungeon boss imo.

[empty flume]

like an actual squad!

[hidden kiln]

Definitely agree here

[keen plank]

Like the fight is hard, sure. But ultimately the Compiler boss isn’t too complex.

Hit the switches, lower the ice, hit the right switches in sequence, enter the shield, DPS, repeat.

Not simple. But not complicated either.

[hidden kiln]

the vaults are much harder mechanically

[empty flume]

it's the learning experience that's hard about it...and getting there right

[keen plank]

Also it does seem like this compiler is stronger than normal ones. They’re all still threats of course. But we’re far weaker than the SO and this one specifically acted as IDurandal’s warden or jailer.

[keen plank]

Biggest threat of Cryo archive isn’t other players or even the compiler. It’s the timer.

[empty flume]

that's part of getting there

[hidden kiln]

Unless something has changed drastically, we’re far enough into the timeline that Durandal should’ve found Lh’owon by now?

[empty flume]

the compiler is definitely hard in the sense that they don't tell you what to do
but it's one of those shared knowledge things that once it's known, it's known

i think the lore entriese implie a portion of durandul remained on marathron in this timeline?

if you search it here someone's mentioned it before i think

[keen plank]

Thothandal, certainly.

[keen plank]

No. Not exactly.

There’s two of them. The main one, and a small piece/clone he left behind by consuming IDEA.

[empty flume]

i remember reading it a while back and it was pretty vague but isn't that the same thing
a portion of durandul was left on marathron and for some reason is stuck there until the compiler was defeated

what was the not exactly part there if you don't mind elaborating

[keen plank]

The main one is a smarmy intellectual who has become somewhat of an atoner and outright cares about humanity. Particularly after his merger makes him godlike, far more balanced, and moral. He’s the one presumably narrating Ozmandius in the reveal trailer.

IDurandal is much weaker but just manipulated us into letting him get access to the rest of the ship. He’s a less powerful version who’s just as rampant as the original in the first game.

“I think we’ll be great friends. And even better enemies.”

[empty flume]

hm, i don't think there's any indication we've been in contact with the main durandul right? I just assumed all the jacked audio was from the left behind one

[keen plank]

Probably not. Both of them are observing us, but one is closer and the other is far too powerful to be too heavily active in the story. At least now.

[empty flume]

the assumption would be that thothandal, if they exist, wouldn't be here anymore right

i guess that's possible too

[keen plank]

Unclear as of now. They’re really darn powerful.

[pure wagon]

Wait that’s why it was left behind? It was tasked with jailing Durandal ???

[keen plank]

Seemingly. But we don’t know yet.

[stone yarrow]

Who keeps restocking the loot? WHO INSTALLS NEW WINDOWS????

[sudden pollen]

Gantry is very overworked

[earnest hatch]

Where does it say the compiler has trapped Durandal?

[quartz rivet]

v

[keen plank]

It’s very unclear. Most of the evidence comes from his own lines. Particularly in his codex entry series talking to us.

[empty flume]

i like to imagine there's an AI somewhere just making bots restocking stuff

[narrow jungle]

The windows would be rooks! Theres worker bots etc. Loot restocks idk lol

[brave oak]

theres a reverse MIDA going around called ADIM that does nothing but repair windows, trust me im hamish sinclair

[sudden pollen]

lmao

[quartz lichen]

WHERE IS MY BINGUS PLUSH

pink cat needed

i must make sure the emotional support felini is there for me

[stiff tulip]

Oo

[green plume]

We don't need to make an AI even more emo.

[hot egret]

I still don’t like that. Because it really feels like a cop-out.

“Oh this isn’t Durandal after all, but a copy of him.”

This is a character that has not been seen for 30 years and to say it’s actually just a copy of him cheapens it.

[stiff hearth]

who’s to say this is the only one we’re going to encounter the other one could come back the one that fused themselves with a pfhor ai

[sage lark]

this is like the only way to have Durandal I can think of without the stakes being completely stupid

Durandal/Thoth basically ascended to godhood

what/who would you be fighting

if we are keeping the same plot of exploring what happened to the colony but suddenly this God comes back for some reason

imo its easier and makes more sense like this instead of Durandal/Thoth returning or remaking the OG story in an extraction shooter

[unreal sierra]

jjaro AI, thoth.

[craggy finch]

It’s to allow the M1 era Durandal personality to still be around when the chronology would have current Durandal/Thoth, who is completely changed

Durandal’s playful sarcasm and cynicism is most of his appeal

He would be too “nice” as the hybrid

[craggy finch]

Power levels are kind of moot when the Wrk can already erase a universe by existing and we’re mainly observers to whatever the Anomaly is doing

[unreal sierra]

and i think that the new story should reflect the old, with our runner growing into a pseudo %HERO for this timeline as recon 54 is off doing shit in destiny already. we’ll likely see battleroids, but nothing like the security officer. prob might get some background lore of battleroids yapping about tau ceti, the pfhor, maybe some context on durandal.. darandoth? thothandal? whatever he’d be now.

[craggy finch]

DuranThoth would be a force of nature similar to those

Even base Durandal is way beyond us, he formally introduced himself by hacking our UI and we’re only on the Marathon because he allows it

[sage lark]

yes in the og trilogy but thats why I mean it wouldnt really work in an extraction shooter

but who knows

we might end up shooting at a wrk

[craggy finch]

Eh, if they used a compiler as the big boss man, I think they’re keeping things relatively grounded

[unreal sierra]

durandal looking at our runner shoving random needles of goop into our shell like:

[craggy finch]

It’s not exactly Destiny’s space opera atmosphere either

We’ve been conditioned to accept Runners as disposable chumps

[sage lark]

yeah hence I like that they went this way with Durandal instead of bringing Durandal/Thoth

[craggy finch]

We’re not champions on an epic adventure, we’re a horde of slaves with kleptomania

[sage lark]

yep

[craggy finch]

Security Officer’s ascension is also more of a surreal cosmic horror event than something traditionally heroic, especially since he was presented as a blunt instrument throughout the first two games

[rose mulch]

This isn’t really lore but does anyone know where I can find the sound files of opening vaults or locked rooms?

[sage lark]

I hope not, we should stay as expendable nobodies

[craggy finch]

If we go beyond that, it should be something horrific

[sage lark]

because as ConcernedAnticitizen said it would turn into destiny

and idk how you would do this lorewise there thousands of runners supposedly running but everyone is the %HERO?

[unreal sierra]

durandoth could come in as maybe a seasonal timeline jump event where you follow his orders and he’s like i dunno, “skin 7 billion runners to ascend to godhood, synthetic goober.”

[craggy finch]

At his core, SO is a resurrected corpse jammed with alien technology and used as a tool by people who outright tell him he’s their dumb muscle

[craggy finch]

In a collective sense, Nona is setting up the biomata as a transhumanist singularity event

[unreal sierra]

we are our runner, every other runner is just a runner. like how in destiny we’re THE guardian but everybody else is just A guardian.

[craggy finch]

We’re just a slightly more important mercenary even within the contract storylines though

Traxus outright ditches us

[unreal sierra]

durandal i’m home 😩

..i need durandal as a faction agent so bad.

[craggy finch]

He’s piggybacking off CyAc

Perhaps he may take over from ONI

[unreal sierra]

i’d love to see the big three come back to boss the runner around, tycho needs to be as daddy as possible like he was in the classics. i need durandal’s peak schizo adhd moments in my ears as well. ..and maybe leela could take over ONI and be like, the mommy gf character everyone simps over. (for.. reasons.)

[craggy finch]

ONI is already kind of a twist on Leela, being supportive early on but switching gears and going nuts

[unreal sierra]

deadass i need durandal in my ears more than the other two, he’s my favorite lil’ guy. -w-

[hot egret]

I mean he seemed to have gained control over the hybrid by the end of the universe.

[craggy finch]

Regarding his personality, his entire tone in dialogue changes

It’s a big character growth moment but if you want Durandal vibes, you have to get early Durandal

[hot egret]

To be honest DuranDEA sounds more like the fusion than Durandal.

Unless the voiced Durandal is meant to be Durandal-Thoth while the one in the codex entries is DuranDEA.

[craggy finch]

He’s a tad more dramatic in the cutscene but there’s a log where he admits he hammed it up a bit for gravitas

In text communications he’s very flippant

There are expedition era audio logs where Durandal has the same voice

Albeit heavy in the Melancholy stage of rampancy

[eternal knoll]

oh rly? are these from a collectible?

[craggy finch]

Cryo stuff

[sage lark]

The ulysses ones right?

Or maybe the Communiques

[craggy finch]

I know the Ulysses one for sure

[eternal knoll]

nice, didn't know about that one

dat's a cool series of logs. bonding with soldiers early on, it seems

ones with old names :p

[final oxide]

https://youtu.be/FpLXmEIRL5c?si=DCIcnUpFOTKlTyZT

If no one's watched this, I recommend doing so, it... highlights just how low on the totem pole we are, as the Ghost in the machine.

[burnt nebula]

Sorry for asking this in lore chat but it would just get burried in general chat... I was playing solo on Perimeter and I was at South Relay. Black UESC ship appears flying around overhead and a terminal appeared nearby. Interacted with the terminal, it pinged 3 more terminals. Went to the closest one and got a disc to take to North Relay. Done that. Ship drops off a tonne of bots. Killed the bots. And nothing else really happened? Is that all it was just a way to call in a Commander? I thought there might be some decent loot but there was just a few valuables that dropped with the Commander. Didn't have a whole lot of time left to check though, barely made it to the final exfil lol

[sage lark]

Youre supposed to shoot a box thats hanging off the ship

Drops loot

Its the intercept event

[burnt nebula]

Ah damn. Missed out then lol. I was pinned down by bots so couldnt get near the ship lol

They were grenading the hell out of me

[sage lark]

Also its times after a minute maybe it flies away i think

[burnt nebula]

Yeah there was a message that the ship left I guess. I was still fighting the bots though.

Well, now I know for next time

In 320+ hours thats the first time i've witnessed that lol

[dreamy hawk]

I don’t think I’ve seen that specific event yet either.

But I’m still in double digit playtime so. 😂

[burnt nebula]

Well I guess if I had played more Perimeter I might have seen it before now. Just recently realised Perimeter was goated for solo brute forcing side contracts so I've been hammering away at my Sekiguchi side contracts this way

[sage lark]

it usually happens a while into a perimeter match

similar to lockdown

[burnt nebula]

Honestly feels like a better experience overall. As someone who prefers PVE with the tension of always anticipating some PvP its a good balance. All the other maps are very hard to avoid PvP but seems to be less players on Perimeter.

I think the non-ranked modes should drop the player count in games. I think it would be better recieved by all players tbh

And lower queue times

Perimeter is perfect as-is though

[polar stone]

Does anyone know how many voice roles Elias Tufexes is filling?
I know he is Assassin and Rook.

[keen plank]

They get to have their cake and eat it too by introducing people new to the franchise to a character with the same personality as the one in the first game.

[earnest hatch]

I don’t think it’s a cop out. I don’t think it’s “just a copy” either. It’s an interesting idea that opens up philosophical questions.

Durandal is computer code. It’s totally plausible to just create a copy of the code. So when you say this isn’t Durandal after all it’s a copy of him, I say it’s both. After all, what is truly the difference between Durandal and his copy? Nothing. Until they have different experiences and start becoming different. But at the start, they are exactly the same.

[spare bison]

Hi guys !

Gm

[dreamy hawk]

Isn’t the Durandal we end up with in the very end of the OG trilogies a clone, too?

Also assuming we’re correct on timelines, OG Durandal has become Thoth-Durandal and doesn’t exist anymore, either.

[keen plank]

How goes it, Hope?

[sudden pollen]

Hlelo

[spare bison]

I am ok thanks ! writeing the first chapter of my fan marathon comic

[spare bison]

Sup !

[keen plank]

Yes. The original sacrificed himself by taking out a huge chunk of Battle Fleet Seven.

With a corvette, the smallest possible military ship, Durandal took out half of one fleet’s best of the best. Good job, Boomer.

[earnest hatch]

Basically, although in each of those cases I don’t think the original survives.

[keen plank]

Cool! 😯

[spare bison]

Thanks ! Hehe

Is on tapas btw

I wanna get 800 subs at the end of the year

Also wanna make a p atreon but I need the subs first to yknow

[earnest hatch]

Here’s a wild theory I haven’t seen anyone make. Maybe Durandal doesn’t merge with Thoth and he merges with an unnamed but more powerful Jjaro AI. In each timeline a different Jjaro AI is awakened and the correct timeline happens because finally a Jjaro AI is awakened that’s powerful and smart enough to help the SO defeat the Wrk. Thoth was actually kind of dumb and confused, iirc, and he switched sides as soon as one side was winning.

So it makes sense and fits with Infinity’s whole thing with different realities and questioning what’s real.

[spare bison]

Get the money lol

[dreamy hawk]

Were they actually distinct and not just alternate Thoths? Their final symbol is also a combination of Durandal and Thoths.

And Thoth wasn’t confused when switching sides; Thoth was programmed for balance. That’s explicitly in one of the terminals. Durandal iirc even earns you he’ll turn on you eventually.

[earnest hatch]

Is that Thoth’s symbol or a Jjaro symbol in general. Durandal’s symbol is the Marathon symbol, but it’s not specific to him.

[dreamy hawk]

It’s assumed to be but I’m not sure if it’s explicitly laid out somewhere. If the file name is Thoth.png that’d be a clear answer imo but I have no clue.

[earnest hatch]

So he was switching sides. And I definitely remember him being confused and weird in M2. If he was the same one in Infinity he would have acted the same. If they were “alternate Thoth’s” that’s basically the same as just different Jjaro AI. The name doesn’t matter at that point because the character can act like any character.

[dreamy hawk]

Yeah I’d agree that they could be/are distinct entities.

[plucky sierra]

Durandal had a specific symbol

Beware. The mythical Thoth was concerned with maintaining the balance between creation and destruction, yes and no, light and darkness, not the triumph of one over the other.

Do you remember the days when computers were simple, unreasoning things you could turn off and on like flashlights? Is memory what we perceived or what we want? What does Thoth think? He concerns himself with the states of off and on, good and evil. Isn't his perception simple? Doesn't it have to be?

I don’t think the side switching is indicative of confusion given it was warned about before we even activated him

[earnest hatch]

I didn’t say the side switching was indicative of confusion. I was saying those were two attributes of his character that don’t appear again in every timeline in Infinity.

[plucky sierra]

He’s not turned on in any timeline but the first and last one, many end before that event happens. Furthermore as soon as he’s turned on he is merged with Thoth so I doubt that’d give near enough time to evaluate surroundings and Durandals side is losing, so similar to helping the Pfhor for “balance” he would lean towards helping The SO and survivors

[earnest hatch]

I also think it makes thematic sense considering what’s going on in Infinity with alternate events happening and the SO serving different factions.

[earnest hatch]

There is an awake Jjaro AI in other timelines. You either interact with it or hear other characters mention it.

And in the last timeline it invites you down to its core to merge Durandal, so it clearly understands something of what’s happening and been awake long enough to do that.

[plucky sierra]

From the beginning of Infinity the Durandal-Thoth AI speaks to you between timelines but is never activated in any of the timelines except the first one in M2 and the last one.

[dreamy hawk]

That is admittedly more along the lines of what I recall from research but having not played I demand terminal citations from everyone. 😂

[earnest hatch]

So annoyed that I'm actually doing this right now. 😆

[earnest hatch]

I did a quick search on the MSP

In Confound Delivery (first chapter after prologue) Tycho says:
"Enter the flooded areas and access the S'pht AI. My hunters report that the humans may have been partially successful [and then later] Functioning sensors show a massive structure entering a Lh'owon orbit."
This means Thoth has awakened and summoned K'lia and the S'pht'kr.

In Things What Kicks (second chapter after prologue) Durandal says:
"My teams have activated the AI, and I am learning much about the final days of the S'pht, but the intelligence is reticent and inscrutable. It expects something, that is clear enough, but what is a mystery."

So that's two timelines already where the AI, probably Thoth but maybe not, was activated and awake. I'm not going to search for more because I think that should be enough.

[dreamy hawk]

I guess my neurodivergent trait is enjoying looking things up.

[plucky sierra]

You’ll only see Durandal-Thoth at Exit terminals or inbetween (electric sheep levels/failed timelines) never speaking to Thoth till you start the final timeline in By Committee, there’s no real reason to suspect it’s a different AI at all. Especially since “Thoth” was a human name Durandal gave it to describe its personality and not the actual name of the AI.

[earnest hatch]

The reason to suspect it's a different AI each time is that it talks and acts differently than Thoth from M2. It could be artistic license. I like to think that it thematically fits with the rest of Infinity.

[dreamy hawk]

`Do you have any idea what a complicated matter it is to successfully replicate the command stamps of over a hundred deceased officers? Not to mention coaxing activators from a partially crushed set of control glands.

All this while locked in mortal combat with the second most brilliant Artificial Intelligence in the galaxy. What a rush.`
Tycho and Durandal easily tie for “biggest ego.”

[earnest hatch]

Sounds like a PvP streamer.

[dreamy hawk]

The end of Confound Delivery does imply the AI was active, though. At least reading the text, we never make it to the activation before K’lia is warped in.

[plucky sierra]

That is very obviously thoth though not some third never mentioned AI

[dreamy hawk]

But I haven’t played the level so maybe you hit the switch.

[dreamy hawk]

I think the argument is less that it isn’t Thoth, it’s just not the same Thoth.

If we’re the sum of our memories and experiences, alternate timeline Thoth could be a distinct entity depending on its history, shared name or not.

Thoth Lite, Thoth Premium, Thoth for Kids, etc.

Yeah, @earnest hatch ?

I’m not as convinced that it is the case, but assuming I’m understanding the train of thought, I don’t feel confident enough to disagree either, though.

[plucky sierra]

It is the same AI each time, the only difference being the activation circumstances, Thoth was never "confused" he switched sides like Durandal said he probably would, This Thoth is the same way, clearly conscious of larger plans and works to enable them

[earnest hatch]

Maybe. I'm saying the Jjaro AI character from M2 isn't the same Jjaro AI character in MI. It sort of doesn't matter what you name it. I like to think it's literally a different AI. They even are located in different cores in different physical locations. Although that could just be Infinity being Infinity.

[earnest hatch]

Thoth in M2 talked like he was confused and he definitely wasn't conscious of larger plans or worked to enable them. He just kind of reacted to the moment to moment events. He didn't seem aware of any bigger picture issues.

[dreamy hawk]

Would you happen to know where the text you’re thinking of this would be?

[dreamy hawk]

I’m inclined towards infinity being infinity but I’d be curious to read what you interpret as confusion if you can find it or point me to it.

[plucky sierra]

Humans of yours are near [?death],
but by your dead construct's
     transporters
to [?save] them I will send you;
while I seek [?perception] of this
     new world.

literally his first words to you are "go save the survivors"

I understand.

Your construct searched for my
     creators,

wishing to tell them
(that their old brothers are now)
slaves;

waiting to be freed.

A connection [?ansible] was left;
awaiting the next quiet [?peace];

and though destroyed by the threes,
it will scream over the void one time.

And his literal second terminal to you encapsulates the entire plan and executes it

This does not look at all like confusion, and even later when he rambles it is more retrospection than confusion

[dreamy hawk]

It reads like waking up after a long period of dormancy though admits he needs to rub his eyes a little.

[plucky sierra]

The reason he switches sides is likely because he has a grasp of the full situation, perceiving the Pfhor's ability to release the Wr'knkacnter via the trih xeem and attempting to prevent that, achieve balance by attempting to help them at the last minute to prevent real catastrophe

[earnest hatch]

You’re saying the part where he seems confused isn’t him being being confused. It’s a convenient interpretation. It’s not one I share since you can immediately see that even grammatically his dialogue is written different.

You already claimed that Thoth never is activated in Infinity except in the first and last timeline. You were 100% wrong about that so I’m not taking this interpretation at face value either.

[dreamy hawk]

That seems more complex than what Durandal suggests.

[plucky sierra]

"grammatically his dialogue is written different." He's an Alien

[plucky sierra]

Durandal was egotistical and over confident

[earnest hatch]

Different from his dialogue in Infinity.

[plucky sierra]

The only difference is the lack of translation errors

[earnest hatch]

Right. Durandal says that Thoth seeks balance so if Durandal was around then Thoth would balance out the odds by adding himself as an AI to the Pfhor side. Thoth was about balance not about saving the galaxy.

[dreamy hawk]

Maybe, but we’re given an explanation for its motivations; that interpretation would require an assumption. Not necessarily wrong though.

[earnest hatch]

I already dug through the MSP once to show that you were wrong. I’m not doing it again, thank you.

[plucky sierra]

I understand.

Your construct searched for my
     creators,

wishing to tell them
(that their old brothers are now)
slaves;

waiting to be freed.

the long sleep ends

your construct

bethought itself higher,

awaiting far beneath

my fate was written

I fail to see how these are different enough to be distinctly different entities.

[plucky sierra]

Keep in mind durandal's main logic core was destroyed at this point, he was contained by the Pfhor and working on escape at this point, furthermore he has straight up lied by omission in this game already, waiting to tell you his true plans till much later than the beginning

7 timelines an AI is woken and calls the S'pht'Kr home the times we get to talk to it the sentence structure is nearly identical and treats us the same. (OOU 30+ years of marathon lore treating it this way) I fail to see any evidence for a second AI even on Lh'owon let alone be the one Durandal merges with

[earnest hatch]

You also failed to see any evidence of an AI being awoken beyond the first and last timeline, at first. Now you’ve switched to saying it happened in all seven timelines, and I’m not even sure that’s true. I think you should spend more time on it before making a judgement. I’m not even sure that K’lia gets called in every timeline.

[plucky sierra]

This mythical “third ai” you feel (with no proof) exists.

You keep saying the AI in inf is a different one and I’m saying that’s stupid because there’s no evidence

[earnest hatch]

You also didn’t think there was evidence that the AI got activated beyond the first and last timeline.

[plucky sierra]

But you’re going to pick and choose when it’s Thoth and when it’s the third one because then it looks like supports something

[plucky sierra]

Again, your “third” Jjaro ai. Not Thoth, I think Thoth is the only ai the Jjaro have on Lhowon. Like I said the only time we speak to what you think is a different AI is the already merged Durandal-thoth between timelines.

[bold karma]

Is there a lore reason why DCON machines make those noises?

[earnest hatch]

For this theory to be true, Thoth-Durandal would have to be able to travel through time and through different timelines. Which I don’t see any evidence of.

[earnest hatch]

They’re old. They don’t work as smoothly anymore.

[plucky sierra]

Ignoring the 7+ times he does? Durandal-Thoth speaks to you on Ne Cede Malis.

[plucky sierra]

It deconstructs material into data and beams it to space

[bold karma]

RUNNAH,

Place containers of tick milk into DCONs across Dire Marsh to gum up the works!

[earnest hatch]

RUNNAH

Pour sugar into the DCON gas tanks. The UESC won’t be able to start them up in the morning!

[latent python]

But then how will I make sure my burgers are safe

[earnest hatch]

Why isn’t there a liquid burrito or a liquid pizza?

[craggy finch]

Objectives -
In a single run:
0/1 - Leave burning pile of doo doo on Orion's front porch
0/3 - Teepee Maintenance, Algae Ponds, and Complex
0/1 - Broadcast 2 Girls 1 Cup from AI Uplink then exfil

[latent python]

yet

[dense tendon]

common occurence on the internet, sadly

[cold marlin]

I was really hoping I’d get closer to knowing the full picture of what timeline we were in as I got each valuable codex entry and priority quest

[dense tendon]

i would have to assume it is a new one.

because i don't believe that the game introducing this concept being called infinity was a meaningless choice. i don't believe that the timeline that the Mjolnir finally succeeded in, the one at the ending of Infinity, is the ONLY timeline that doesn't fail.

it was just the first he found, before, as i've spoken about before, he would leave, furthering his rampancy in pursuit of metastability, which i believe he attained, along with co-opting Durandal's coveted Escape.

[plucky sierra]

I mean we are currently better understanding the timeline we are in, how it connects to other timelines will probably come later. IMO if it was some random 8th timeline it wouldn't be much different than just a reboot, so I'd like it to connect some way more concretely

[dense tendon]

essentially, i think the Mjolnir's story is over. This timeline is a new one, because this is a new story.

[dense tendon]

i think that by virtue of including alternate timelines at all, by this logic, Infinity is a reboot, several times over.

if the definition of reboot, as implied here, is that similar but not identical events happened, the same story is being told again, but with different events, then infinity fits that level per level.

my point is that i think that we agree there isn't any real difference between a new timeline and a reboot. you seem to view that conclusion negatively, while i don't think i do.

i think its a bit of a complex issue, especially in a story like this.

[plucky sierra]

the definition of a reboot to me is restarting the story from scratch with the same characters and generally the same story elements. I'd like concrete proof eventually that this is indeed one of many timelines and not restarting Marathon completely, because right now there's nothing connecting it to the actual Original Trilogy of games besides vaguely similar events in both, and it can very easily be a reboot

any reference that Marathon Infinity has happened would be enough, and like I said, I am sure it'll come with time

[dense tendon]

okay but my question is how does that differ from a new timeline happening in the same story, like what happened with Infinity?

like, i feel like this definition would make Infinity a reboot of Marathon 1 and 2, already.

let alone the ensuing story continuing to reboot itself multiple times.

[plucky sierra]

There was a continuous plot across all 7 times, with 1+ character(s) the same across timelines and games

[dense tendon]

pretty much only 1

[floral meadow]

is marathon in the same universe as halo or destiny? or is it like same universe but different timelines?

[latent python]

Yeah. I don't really care if we call it a reboot or whatever, it doesn't matter

It's a very cool revitalization of the franchise

[dense tendon]

and i think its also a weak link between plot and character. there's tons of stories that have no characters in common across their disparate entries.

[latent python]

No, and also no. They're different franchises with references and easter eggs to each other

[plucky sierra]

We are currently in the retelling Marathon 1 phase, and we know M2 happened but if this is a timeline fully isolated from the trilogy, and they spend no time fleshing out alternate timelines and possible connections then what is the point

[dense tendon]

its connected mostly by themes and ideas. not really anything in-universe.

[plucky sierra]

short answer no. the long answer is too long for here, but imagine 3 separate multiverses connected via the same origin

[dense tendon]

except destiny 2 having a guy from pre-Marathon MIDA somehow slipping to Destiny Mars and dying there

its a whole thing

[floral meadow]

makes sense

[floral meadow]

ohhhhh

[dense tendon]

im gonna be so real, M2 didn't happen in Infinite

[floral meadow]

thank you thank you

[dense tendon]

like in no timeline of Infinite does the events of M2 play out the way it did in M2.

[latent python]

But M2 did happen to us

[dense tendon]

yes.

[plucky sierra]

There are in-universe connections, heavily in Destiny 2, the problem is that they retroactively give meaning to Marathon terminals and a lot of people don't like retroactive connections like that

[latent python]

The players

[dense tendon]

yes.

thats the strength of narrative. we can be capable of perceiving things that never happened even in worlds that didn't exist.

[latent python]

Because we are gods

[dense tendon]

point is, Infinite begins in a way that directly contradicts the events of M2. You are on a weird hidden space station in Tau Ceti, and are about to die to some cosmic horror, the Wrk, cuz it was released by Tfear firing the trih xeem immediately when Durandal tried to stop Battle Group 4.

which if you recall, is not what happened in M2.

M2 is itself a failed timeline, we have no idea how many sideslips have happened since then, but the final message from M2.Durandal being "there's a weird thing thats been in our galaxy for forever, lets go find out what it is" tells me, oh, surprise! Wrk.

[latent python]

Those goddamn wrks

[dense tendon]

the original trilogy is the story of the Security Officer, who i call Mjolnir cuz its a more interesting name and his full model is a mouthful.

[craggy finch]

I like to imagine that the M2 epilogue is just a vision of the future Durandal has, which would have happened if the Wrk wasn't a factor, then it comes out and destroys everything

[dense tendon]

this new game is in the same setting, and clearly later than the events of the original trilogy, but it also doesn't like, seem to be about those events.

consider star wars. they're still makin those. and they're startin to do shit even later than the sequel trilogies. which have nothing to do with the Skywalkers.

[plucky sierra]

and the Events of Marathon 2's prologue directly contradict what happens at the end of M1? your point is? I am saying if Marathon never references(even in passing like it already does for events of M2) the timelines, the security officer, or the larger events that prove/imply that there is a multiverse to connect it to, what is the point? Give everything a different name and its a brand new IP, Bungie games already have similar themes across their games

[dense tendon]

thats still skywalker.

i mean, star wars

also like

what?

[latent python]

Marathon 26 is referencing a ton of stuff from the original trilogy though

We don't have to have access to the multiple timelines in order to still be set in that universe

[dense tendon]

1. what events are contradicted with the ending of m1 and the beginning of m2? i'm drawing a blank here and would like to look at what you're referring to.
2. i also think like, my point is obvious? i've been talkin about it for like ten minutes. and like, Durandal is here, bro. also this seems like a really weird thing to get hung up on, that nothing in the series can progress for it to be the same series?

[craggy finch]

I think it's the idea that Durandal went off without the SO

the ending screen shows SO helping an injured BoB in the aftermath and the epilogue makes no mention of him

but that's a soft retcon

Infinity is deliberately contradictory because timelines get altered

[craggy finch]

The fact that details are still consistent with M1, down to the exact date of the first invasion, would make it a waste if it wasn't building upon the timeline shenanigans and was just a straightforward reboot

post-M1 is always the divergence point

[stable phoenix]

What god is on dire marsh

[craggy finch]

some flavour of alien god

Outer God, benevolent space Jesus or cyborg messiah

[eternal shell]

i think we can rule out benevolent

[stable phoenix]

How do we know this

[craggy finch]

not the Jjaro's fault people messing with their shit causes problems

[plucky sierra]

yes but they said it is a "retelling but still a direct continuation" and right now there is no continuation evident, just retelling. we have a new full cast of AI and colonist to see their perspective of events, we have a completely (and likely intentionally) different Durandal, we have very vague sort of references to the Cyborgs. No Leela, nor Tycho and direct contradictions with events of Marathon 2. We are in a retelling phase with little hints at any continuation. If we: See direct mention of the Durandal that left, or mention Lh'owon's sun being wrapped in a singularity, those would be events we can directly connect to the trilogy without retelling

[eternal shell]

that's more negligent

[craggy finch]

Signs are vaguely similar to the W'rkncactner from Pathways into Darkness/Infinity, but Jjaro have a lot of screwy gravity/space technology

and the S'pht may be doing shit since one is a boss

[plucky sierra]

Durandal leaves you behind in Ingue Ferroque (M1) and in M2 you have been aboard his ship with him the whole time

[stable phoenix]

Compiler?

[craggy finch]

M2's prologue is a soft retcon, Infinity's opening is a direct erasure of M2's epilogue that factors into the idea of timelines being destroyed and reset

[craggy finch]

ye

their species is called the S'pht

[plucky sierra]

The Pfhor ship vanished about twenty minutes ago, after venting nearly a thousand Pfhor bodies and other refuse.  I am positive that Durandal is in control, and fear what he might do with such a powerful ship during the Jealous stage of his Rampancy.

and

I'll send you a postcard from the galactic core if we're not too busy.
Love and kisses,
Durandal

do not imply that he ever was planning to come back

[stable phoenix]

So you think we will get more of them as bosses in future maps or nah?

[craggy finch]

hope so

an OG trilogy enemy being relegated to Cryo's end would be disappointing (I am too low skill to access this)

[craggy finch]

he's so mercurial that you could handwave it as Durandal changing his mind and abducting him to be a dick

it's also significant that several timelines stick with him never taking SO along

[plucky sierra]

My theory is Jjaro since the Anomaly is mostly timerelated but it could be guarding something

[stable phoenix]

You think the anomaly could like warp the area back in time kinda like what happened on mars in d2? And we have to fight actual UESC instead of bots?

[plucky sierra]

you can handwave all the prologue/epilogue conflicts away with the trilogy, but not this game when things are said in the trilogy to have explicitly happened but they didn't here. I'm just hoping for direct references to the timelines

[dense tendon]

so you take the inconsistency between a known liar's words and actions as a sign of retcon instead of evidence he was lying? bro pretended to leave, had spht'dudes chuck Mjolnir into stasis while he was distracted with the reconstruction efforts, and dipped

[stable phoenix]

Why’s thors hammer in stasis?

[dense tendon]

which is like, also pretty much implied in the manual of m2, and various places after the start of m2, where durandal doesn't explain explicitly because he doesn't have time

[craggy finch]

UESC on Tau Ceti was basically just scrubby security personnel who were noted to be kind of soft and ill prepared for the Pfhor attack, most of the work was done by the Security Officer on the Marathon and the nine other Mjolnir cyborgs on the planet

[stable phoenix]

You think we’d fight the cyborgs then?

[plucky sierra]

It dilates time, not direct travel (yet) we will likely see Anomalous bots in Season 2 under the directive from the Anomaly after lengthy exposure to its affects

[craggy finch]

Battleroids are mentioned in SekGen's quest line, so that would be a fun boss encounter

[stable phoenix]

Are they still on the planet?

[craggy finch]

nobody knows

no living colonist is on the planet as far as we know

the last record is this guy called Jasper who would be in his 80s by the present

[stable phoenix]

But they cyborgs aren’t colonists per se are they?

[latent python]

Well you should definitely not expect a direct continuation in the sense of continuing the storyline of the SO from the end of Infinity, for several reasons. But there is new story being told, the story of the colonists, and of the people who came afterwards, us.

[craggy finch]

In Marathon 2 they were disintegrated when the Pfhor returned and blasted the colony to dust, in Infinity's alternate timelines they were captured by the Pfhor alongside the SO

in the timeline where Durandal never took SO, specifically

[stable phoenix]

SO?

[craggy finch]

Security Officer

the original player character

[stable phoenix]

Ahhh

But the colony isn’t dust is it?

[craggy finch]

nope

so M2's events were retconned already

but Infinity also retconned it anyway

as a story thing with alternate timelines

not just ignoring it for shoddy writing

essentially we can assume that, if this game is a continuation, the events of Marathon 2 didn't happen as they originally did

but Marathon 1's events are referenced a lot

[stable phoenix]

Idk didn’t play the other games they were made before I was born just looking at em not sure entirely

[eternal shell]

good news: you can play them today

they're FREE

[craggy finch]

If you want an understanding of why Durandal is so important and the first incident that hit the colony, take a look at the first one through playthroughs or playing it yourself

M2 and Infinity involve all kinds of fuckery that may or may not factor into the Season 1 story

[dense tendon]

The Security Officer, a Mark IV Mjolnir Battledroid, Designation Mjolnir Recon number 54, and believing himself, initially, to be a Security Officer aboard the Marathon.

[stable phoenix]

I actually can’t they hurt my brain with the old graphics, OG doom is good but I do t think I can play any other OG game that old

[dense tendon]

the protagonist of the original trilogy

[dense tendon]

OG doom is OLDER than marathon, homie. doom is 93, marathon is 94.

[craggy finch]

I find it amusing that Lt. Yabara's log summary describes her as a Security Officer as a proper noun in the same way

[eternal shell]

think you forgot to scroll down there

[craggy finch]

Mjolnir 54 really was just some dude

[stable phoenix]

Who?

[dense tendon]

no i jus took a while to type that up cuz i forgor the specifics 💀

[craggy finch]

She's a character in the 2026 game from some of the codex logs

[stable phoenix]

That’s why the name is familiar

[plucky sierra]

I know that. I am just saying, once again, that I would like concrete information in the new game eventually canonizing the events of the original trilogy of games and the multiverse explained in Infinity. Even handwavy references to alternate timelines that allows us to say "this is a different timeline than the original trilogy, but still in the same multiverse." Right now its just a reboot unless we make assumptions based on the OG games. I want to make similar assumptions based on new lore connecting them.

[dense tendon]

i feel like the fact they've said its not a reboot multiple times is enough

cuz this method explains that being true

occam's razor. its an alternate timeline, or the entirety of Bungie is lying about what game they're selling you?

[plucky sierra]

They have said it and have yet to show it. I have just been expressing my desire to see it, fully expecting it will be explored later.

[restive knoll]

I do hope Robert Blake still exists in some fashion in this timeline; someone's gotta be the BoB of the BoB's.

[eternal shell]

is it a motion sickness thing or

[stable phoenix]

It’s my ADHD :/

[eternal shell]

you can rebind the controls to something much more sensible. the defaults are really wacky

[craggy finch]

If we're going by the Infinity timeline we don't quite know what happened to him, but maybe they went with the S'pht'Kr

[stable phoenix]

Can’t play games like that

[plucky sierra]

occam's razor: new devs, new game, its a reboot 30+ years apart and they're disconnected

[eternal shell]

ah

[craggy finch]

They wouldn't have bothered keeping things consistent if it was a total reboot, most reboots go through more effort to establish a disconnection

[dense tendon]

if thats what you believe then what is the point of hoping for what you think impossible?

[plucky sierra]

things aren't consistent

[craggy finch]

the only glaring differences are the art direction and the events following M1, which were already made inconsistent with Infinity

The entire history of the UESC and MIDA is intact

[dense tendon]

only if you disregard the consistent reason available for the inconsistency to be diagetic

so like

[latent python]

I still don't really think it matters whether we call it a reboot or not, it's rad

[dense tendon]

what are we doing ehre

[craggy finch]

like the second Mirror's Edge game went through pains to tell you that this isn't the same Faith or city from the original right off the bat

that was an aesthetic change combined with clear story differences

Bungie is retaining a shitload of terminal lore from 1994

[restive knoll]

yeah my current theory is that he's having space adventures with mr. marathon, but whether that's on the compiler homeworld, somewhere in sphit territory, or still frozen aboard the marathon/boomer is all up in the air

[craggy finch]

like, single paragraphs that get expanded

[plucky sierra]

I never said I think it is impossible, that's not what Occam's Razor means, I have already said multiple times that this is something I expect to see and all you do is say "no look its right here see" then show an assumption based off of Old lore. I want to see things in Marathon 2026 referencing these things, not Marathon Infinity.

[craggy finch]

the Misriah Three are even mentioned

[latent python]

And...named a shotgun after

[dense tendon]

i'm not referring to occam's razor with that comment.

[craggy finch]

I assume it's like naming it after the city of manufacture

[latent python]

It might be but that's the boring explanation

What if it's more like naming your gun after the Alamo

Like they've become so mythicized that now there are gun brands named after them

[dense tendon]

i'm refering to the expectation you have being at odds with your declaration that this must be a reboot because of the 30 year time gap, dev cycling, and perceived narrative inconsistencies that are in reality consistent because this is a new story and its not trying to be the old one again, its moving FORWARD.

and these methods it uses to move forward are consistent with the methods the story has used in the past to move forward.

[plucky sierra]

I want to see new lore referencing Timelines and a multiverse. thats all I've been saying. There isn't enough to say "this is definitely connected" based on new game lore. and all we can say is "alternate timeline" based off of Infinity, and that's not good enough to me, that's a copout. If there was new references to alternate timelines then there's weight.

[latent python]

Is it a copout?

When it's already established in the setting

[dense tendon]

is pick and choose only a sin for others?

[craggy finch]

The meat and potatoes of Season 1 is establishing the history for newcomers and expanding on concepts that OG Marathon lore people would be familiar with

[plucky sierra]

not in the new retold setting.

[latent python]

But it's the same setting

[dense tendon]

it is.

[plucky sierra]

I have said this is something I expect to see later, I just would like to see it already

[craggy finch]

Unfortunately I think Bungie is holding off on lore drops until Season 2

atm they're prioritising gameplay tuning

[plucky sierra]

its not due to aforementioned inconsistencies, unless again we base things off of old lore

[dense tendon]

except what IS there, you're ignoring, because you don't like it.

[latent python]

Well yeah, that's only a couple months

[dense tendon]

yeah, thats picking and choosing bro

[craggy finch]

Season 1 is the mystery box, you're going to stew over and theorise for its entirety

[plucky sierra]

I hope it'll be a lot longer than season 2, I want another 10 years of Marathon

[dense tendon]

....wait

so you want it to be here already, but you expect it in the future, but you also want it to be like ten years from now?

[plucky sierra]

The only picking and choosing I have tried to do is say "can I connect the new game to a multiverse based off its own lore alone" thats not exactly picking and choosing

[plucky sierra]

I want references without exploration (like the S'pht History)

I've said that too already

[dense tendon]

i'm going to leave before trying to understand a guy talking in paradox becomes another fifty minute sequence of being told i am a vicious manipulator who attacks innocents again.

[craggy finch]

The one thing that separates nuMarathon from something like the Highlander franchise, where every sequel is a follow up to the first film that ignores the rest, is that Infinity established the timelines

We know that M1 likely happened as it originally did

[latent python]

Well, this is not as important to me as it clearly is to you, but the anomaly seems promising in directions that you're looking for

[dense tendon]

which, btw, thats me saying, i don't want to fight! this isn't important, i have no strong feelings here! other than frustration at my seeming inability to parse what is being said. so, i'm recusing myself to let cooler heads have the floor, avoiding unnecessary strife.

which is a wild concept, huh?

[craggy finch]

It's got time shit up the kazoo

[latent python]

Can you imagine if the Anomaly made kazoo noises

[craggy finch]

fun fun fun fun fun

[eternal shell]

now it will just because you said that

good job

[latent python]

Modders? You listening?

[craggy finch]

Dire Marsh 24/7
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChpmKkWBb4w

[eternal shell]

bungie implements modding tools just for this

[latent python]

Modders still make recon booba mods first because of course

Phew I was a little worried about automod there

[eternal shell]

contract completion rate goes down 98% because of cheeks making clapping noise

[dense tendon]

modders should make thief wear nothing. as in, she simply takes off her jacket and looks like a mobile figma.

[latent python]

Oh well you know the first one to get cheek mods is assassin

[dense tendon]

or an artist mannequin

it is still eternally funny to me that thief is basically just a barbie doll that stole the fit from Canti FLCL.

[latent python]

A figma with suspiciously articulable toes

[dense tendon]

how else would you pose the feet

thats what figma are for

posing, not, not feet.

[latent python]

Mmhmm

[dense tendon]

....there might be those, i'm not sure, anymore.

[plucky sierra]

"I mean we are currently better understanding the timeline we are in, how it connects to other timelines will probably come later. IMO if it was some random 8th timeline it wouldn't be much different than just a reboot, so I'd like it to connect some way more concretely"
This was my original statement that someone who tends to be very argumentative had issues with. Perhaps if I clarify it better that may help. In Marathon Infinity the Wr'knkancter is released and reality is broken, the SO shifts timelines to find one (the 7th timeline) where the Wr'knkacnter is sealable. The idea that there is only one timeline is reinforced from the beginning imo by Durandal-Thoth saying

thousands are sailing
the same self  the only self

self willed the peril of a thousand fates

a line of infinite ends  finite finishing
the one remains oblique and pure

To me this implies there is one path forward to stop the calamity. If we are in some timeline other than the 7th why is it not failed? I'd like references to the event at least to connect the two. Maybe it is failed and that is why the Anomaly is around, the Cinematic short places the dates very close together. If there is no reference to the Reality Ending event that seems to have ended every timeline but one, how is this not a complete restart? I fully expect the anomaly to explore it, but I was hoping for some references in things like the Alien History.

[latent python]

Or the fit from Rebecca Edgerunner

[dense tendon]

nah she wears hotpants and a bra

also

[earnest hatch]

It doesn’t already??? What does it sound like to you?

[dense tendon]

"someone who tends to be very argumentative?" wonder who that could be. surely, it can't be the guy who spoke AT LENGTH just now about how he doesn't want to fight about this, this guy you're talking about sounds nothing like him.
clearly the best way to deal with a guy we see like that is to give him more reasons to argue. cuz if he wants to argue so bad and is jus lookin for an excuse, he surely won't find one if we jus poke him with sticks as he doesn't fight us, right? it'd be his fault, then, if he were to take offense, clearly.

like if you believe i jus wanna fight or if you take my word i'm jus askin questions to understand shit either way why snipe, what purpose does it serve?

[plucky sierra]

I could link like 10 different times you've gotten heated and escalated during otherwise ordinary discussion

[dense tendon]

that was the old trilogy

this is a new conversation

reboot

again, then why would you fuckin snipe after the fact?

does that make sense to you?

[plucky sierra]

Just another timeline so still relevant

[dense tendon]

if you see me that way, why give me ammo?

[latent python]

I give up

[storm frigate]

Y'all good in here??

[plucky sierra]

I gave all my reasoning and now I am just arguing for no reason

[latent python]

Look if I can't distract away from this with assassin cheeks then I'm out of ideas

[dense tendon]

so i know yall won't believe this but i am trying to prevent this exact thing from happening and have always been.

[plucky sierra]

👀 where

[dense tendon]

like, i'm genuinely asking, so that you guys ask yourself, even if you think i'm an argumentative jerk, does that make sense to go out of your way to provoke such a person? because clearly i can't convince yall that when i say, "hey, i'm gettin heated from this, this is unnecessary, i'm walkin away" that i mean that, because yall jus keep goin immediately.

like, you have to admit that even if you guys were 100% right about every thing said about me in here, that behavior doesn't make sense to egg on?

yall see a guy as a beartrap and then get mad when you put your hand in his mouth and he bites you?

?

[plucky sierra]

I stopped replying to you I don't know what else you want, you said you were walking away then didnt

[dense tendon]

yeah, cuz i changed who i was talkin to, about different topics, and then you said this shit, keepin it going. which is the ENTIRE thing i'm saying here.

[storm frigate]

You are literally talking to no one right now my guy

[stiff hearth]

how’s lore, gang?

[dense tendon]

YOU are the one who asked

[plucky sierra]

it happens a lot, best to ignore it and move on

[dense tendon]

then why dont you?

[storm frigate]

I'm still trying to figure out whatever happened in Dire Marsh

[dense tendon]

if thats the best action, which is also what i'm suggesting, why does that never occur to yall?

[dense tendon]

think.

yeah, that doesnt strike anyone else as bein a dick?

like, really needless?

prolonging this?

[plucky sierra]

Theres not much to discuss lorewise and you keep messaging, it'd be rude to not respond

[plucky sierra]

which part?

[earnest hatch]

What happened is I was almost done with my quest when another player was camping and killed me in less than two seconds. And that’s canon.

[storm frigate]

That's the marsh baybeeeeee

[dense tendon]

okay, look. this is clearly going to become an infinite fuckin cycle, so i'll jus say this ones my last bit. i moved away, i talked about other shit, you said some shit about me in a message to another guy, i said that was uncalled for, thats it. whole incident. nothing needs to keep goin here.

[plucky sierra]

let me guess, an assassin obj ratting?

yeah thats what happened, I was done after that

[storm frigate]

Whatever is going on with the AI mostly, and whether or not the biological virus is related to it

[dense tendon]

anyway, yeah, assassin is a cutie, ngl. friggin yellow grade smoochable resource or whatever.

[storm frigate]

Consider: destroyer

[plucky sierra]

have you seen destroyer??

[storm frigate]

I want him to pick me up

[craggy finch]

why do his lips need to be like a Kardashian's

[storm frigate]

For my enjoyment specifically

[plucky sierra]

likely a Jjaro Intelligence manipulating things

[dense tendon]

so the beauty of my stance is these two things coexist because i like them both for different reasons

[craggy finch]

just constantly pouting underneath that helmet

[dense tendon]

tbh i think the only shell i don't find myself attracted to is medic and thats mostly cuz he's bald and refuses to cover it.

i mean, i like his aesthetic, i jus don't think he's my type.

[craggy finch]

he has little shorts on if you look closely

[earnest hatch]

It was actually a filthy Thief on top of a tower in west gate. Near quarantine.

[storm frigate]

Assassin can get it too, but that's more in the "I want to grab him in my mouth and rip him apart with my teeth" way

[dense tendon]

he has a friggin water wing strapped to his left calf

[dense tendon]

so you actually have for assassin what i have for destroyer

for assassin i want to make him blush by bullying him i bet its adorable.

[storm frigate]

Also sick gunnerkrigg pfp

[dense tendon]

yeeee

[storm frigate]

Yeah no assassin I would bully the shit out of (positive)

I'm gonna say it though, I'm not afraid and I will deny it no longer

[dense tendon]

i've always had a thing for mythology, coyote was always one of my favorite gods, and van(dal) is my actual name.

[storm frigate]

Vandal (the shell) is a bit overated

[craggy finch]

Destroyer carries the essence of Beowulf

for that he's the best

[storm frigate]

Imagine how warm and safe you would feel if he hugged you

[craggy finch]

his armour looks cool to the touch, weirdly enough

I like prancing through the rain with Tactical Sprint because it mitigates the heat gain

[dense tendon]

Vandal's funny. I don't have as strong an attraction to her as Thief, but like, she's basically stim-addicted cyber-yolandi visser who paid for the mega man package cuz it came with free yeezies for life. she's a gremlin.

the sheer speed at which she smooves

[craggy finch]

MEGA MAN COMES OUT JANUARY 7TH

was never book smart

I'm money smart

[storm frigate]

Vanda looks like me irl and one of us gotta change

[earnest hatch]

Somehow this chat has gotten worse.

[storm frigate]

And I ain't chaining

[dense tendon]

👀

[storm frigate]

Let me simp, damn you

[craggy finch]

MIDA agent detected

Palace Mons scene kid

[storm frigate]

Okay but _GANTRY is kind of hot

[dense tendon]

listen the only reason Vandal isn't best girl is cuz Thief is unfair competition to anyone

[craggy finch]

I'm more impressed that Australia persisted for several centuries on Mars

[pure wagon]

The anomaly is what’s going on with the ai. And the contagion is most definitely related to the anomaly

[storm frigate]

I'm like a 7.5/10 alt tgirl calm down

[craggy finch]

Thief's hair actually looks like hair

[dense tendon]

why would you say this to me and expect me to calm down

[craggy finch]

Vandal has a drag queen Lady Gaga thing going on with her weave

[storm frigate]

Vandal has the energy of a kid who is in way over her head and is absolutely not coping well with it

[storm frigate]

That scans, but like

What is it

[dense tendon]

"yeah i'm like the upper range of the coolest, hottest kind of feminity, nothing special" girl, believe in your self, please, thats crazy

[craggy finch]

Triage is bald, Assassin's model is unclear but he's bald with little horns in the cinematic and I'm quite convinced Destroyer's helmet is just part of his actual skull

Norwood Reaper comes for even transhuman shells

[torpid briar]

I love this description. I’m a Thief main, but ive been rocking so much Vandal because i just looove her vibe and fashion

[dense tendon]

what do you think the moths are eating, bro? its the runner's hair.

[storm frigate]

Vandal does have the goblin vibe

[pure wagon]

The contagion is some kind of mutated fungal based disease that accelerates adaptive evolution in native tciv life but is extremely harmful to earth based life. It either kills or mutates ppl and crops.

[storm frigate]

This is canon now

[craggy finch]

HISTORY: As the name may indicate, the VANDAL SHELL started with MIDA. Someone took a stolen truckload of baseline SHELLS, went to work on them in their lab, bent the limits of their agility, and added MICROJETS to the lower limbs and a goddamn CANNON to the forearm—then dressed in the coolest streetwear this side of Palace Mons, recruited some friends and made the newsfeeds with a daylight attack on a UESC weapons caravan. Headline was: A Dozen Lunatics Bumrush UESC Mobile Armory. Apparently, MIDA recruitment went up 7500% the week after

[nocturne shadow]

how is no one comparing vandal to rick sanchez

[dense tendon]

...because how is she in any way comparable

[craggy finch]

Runner turned himself into a pickle

funniest shit I've ever seen

[dense tendon]

oh yeah that

[nocturne shadow]

same coat and hair

[storm frigate]

Yeah that'll do it

[nocturne shadow]

both all over the place

[storm frigate]

However

However

Recon

🥺

[dense tendon]

she doesnt even have a coat, she has a cape with sleeves on it 😭

also rick is balding

[pure wagon]

It’s fashion unc smh

[dense tendon]

i mean, yeah, but its not a coat!

[storm frigate]

"Turned myself into a shell Morty, I'm shell rick"

[craggy finch]

She's the only female shell without hair, making her the target of fate's ire

[dense tendon]

vandal is essentially wearing a really funky scarf

[storm frigate]

Trying to smooch her but she sneezes and the helmet smashes your nose

[dense tendon]

not a coat

[storm frigate]

Okay but the wires on that one Vandal skin go really hard

honestly

Maybe I should cosplay Vandal

That could be fun

[pure wagon]

When you put it that way, then that choice of fashion is actually awful for combat operations. All a bot has to do is grab her by the dangling sleeve cap behind her as she runs.

[dense tendon]

trying to smooch her, she opens up her helmet like in her prime to let you, but gets nervous, freaks out, shuts it, clamping down on your head like a hydraulic press

[storm frigate]

That makeup is gonna SUUUUCK tho

[storm frigate]

We love a woman with pinch hazards

[dense tendon]

....im not like, opposed to that, actually.

[craggy finch]

head immediately explodes

[torpid briar]

Yeah, this is also holding me back from trying lmao

[dense tendon]

yeah

[craggy finch]

I think it's a deliberate choice that she has the Misriah shotgun in her cinematic

hunting wabbits

[storm frigate]

Back when I did LARP, we used this alcohol-soluble bodypaint that wouldn't come off with sweat

[craggy finch]

the little drone thing is like a foxhound

[storm frigate]

Would probably wanna get that stuff again

[dense tendon]

yall can ? react me all you like, big robo spider mama accidentally pulping my melon with her beartrap face cuz she got nervous about smoochin me is a fine way to go.

[storm frigate]

oh god vandal's fucking SHOES tho

[pure wagon]

Why are you like this

[dense tendon]

i fall from a height most men never see

[dense tendon]

funny, mostly

[pure wagon]

[eternal shell]

they're super goofy i love it

[dense tendon]

yeah, the integrated combat yeezies, a vandal specialty

[storm frigate]

WHY SHE GOT THE DOOFY AA KICKS

[pure wagon]

YEEZIES

Black airforce vandal

[dense tendon]

ive said this like six times in THIS conversation how did this joke land now lmao

[storm frigate]

Those would SUCK to run in

[dense tendon]

never stop chasing your dreams, homie

[drifting garnet]

Kingdom Hearts fan. So depending on who you ask, makes her completely based or cringe

[pure wagon]

New head cannon. Vandal actually wears black air forces

[craggy finch]

Mega Man boosts, I'm sure they have thrusters

[dense tendon]

nah, the boosts are in her legs, specifically

[storm frigate]

Vandal absolutely loves kingdom hearts

That is a hot topic girl who got bullied in highschool

[craggy finch]

she will never be ballin

[storm frigate]

Am I projecting? Yes. Will I stop? No

[eternal shell]

bruh she lives in the year 2800 she's never heard of any video games or stores from our time

[dense tendon]

i also have like, talked about the yeezies before. TLDR, theyre not so much shoes, they're her feet. she got kicks for feet. she can't take em off.

that ones a headcanon but i refuse to not believe it.

[eternal shell]

how many 13th century faves do you have

[craggy finch]

video games apparently exist through Cascadian Electronics

[storm frigate]

Naw they put that shit in the manufactured personality when they roll the shells outta the bioprint farm

[eternal shell]

oh definitely

but noone's playing doom still

[pure wagon]

It’s a joke brother

[eternal shell]

as sad as it is

no we're doing LORE now

based on uhhh let me get back to you on that

[dense tendon]

you think no one's playing doom in 28whatever6? bro they got that shit to run on silkworms now. theres a whole line of biomata thats jus for playing doom. its called rook.

[eternal shell]

i find this highly reassuring. thank you

[storm frigate]

Every destroyer is constantly playing doom on max difficulty when they sleep

[drifting garnet]

I mean worse case, in the 29th century we’re at the point where the challenge is “but can [device] run Doom 2016/Eternal/Dark Ages simultaneously?”

[eternal shell]

i suspect the answer is yes for anything that computes that is larger than 1x1x1 mm

[drifting garnet]

‘Cause even a toddler can homebrew OG Doom on future-Funkos or whatever

[storm frigate]

Doom runs on the Emotional Support Plushie (tm)

[dense tendon]

really depends on what you mean, but i have a few, actually. the divine comedy, the codex gigas, the tales that would become and had been reynard the fox, etc.

[eternal shell]

i totally forgot about the divine comedy

[storm frigate]

fox....

[dense tendon]

yeah tbf the reynard the fox is mostly 12th century stuff but, it was still popular around then.

also yall like 0?

that's a 12 century writing thing in the western world.

[storm frigate]

I just like foxes

[dense tendon]

like, 1202-5, even.

[storm frigate]

Silly guys

[dense tendon]

or i guess thats actually the 13th century

1204ish

[drifting garnet]

Also he’s a few centuries afterwards but well, Shakespeare continues to be evergreen for a reason

[eternal shell]

im giving an honorary mention to cadfael even though it only takes place in the 12th century and wasnt written then

[dense tendon]

well then youve gotta shout out the canterbury tales

same deal

love me some chaucer, man