📚marathon-lore-discussion

[drifting mulch]

I’m not one to take sides but Coyote you’re a dick sometimes lol

[dense tendon]

yeah. i dont really care.

[median hemlock]

that's putting it lightly. insulting me and then saying "im just asking questions" is a very easy way to get me to stop speaking to you

[dense tendon]

when did i fucking insult you

[median hemlock]

sorry to the people in chat who aren't aggro, i did not mean for things to devolve like this

[rain wigeon]

happens I suppose

[dense tendon]

no, say sorry to me for the fucking slander. i wasnt angry before but now youre just straight up lying.

fuck off.

[plucky sierra]

[dreamy hawk]

I’m just confused because I’m under the impression everyone essentially agrees with one another here.

[plucky sierra]

So what do y’all think of the cow

[dense tendon]

if anything i said was an insult, youve said worse first here.

[median hemlock]

ill be back when the channel has decided to move on from me being the target of ire, hf folks

next time pls do not immediately leap to "you're a bad person for making a flippant comment"

[dense tendon]

this shits an insult? asking why youre engaging in the topic you jus said you didnt care about that was the current conversation? or, as you immediately jumped to, somehow a call for removal of your presence instead of like, yknow, a question, for clarification?

[dense tendon]

literally no one said that.

[lunar cove]

Wish my matchmaking trios brought this kind of energy when we run into a squad at Hauler

[plucky sierra]

Real

[rain wigeon]

sorry they're all free kits with no skin in the game

[plucky sierra]

Could wipe every crew + rooks

[dense tendon]

you taking "thats a fallacy, and typically a sign of a poor argument" as "youre a bad person" isnt a failure of moral character but it is a failure to read.

[rain wigeon]

me when I try to assault a full purple team with a broken toaster and a peashooter

[dense tendon]

christ. fuckin hate it when people blame me for them bein shitty to me, especially when they point to shit that didnt happen or they clearly didnt understand as the justification.

[dense tendon]

yeah that tends to happen when asking what someones even talking about gets treated like i pissed on em.

[plucky sierra]

^ Durandal complaining about being blamed for rampant actions forced by Strauss

[dense tendon]

real.

this happens all the time, man. its old. tired of it. i am not the reason all these folk are stupid, but apparently im not allowed to be innocent of that sin.

so why bother.

"oh you know how literary analysis works? you must be a dickhead writing fanfiction"
"oh you were rude to the guy who was already typin up insults at you when you walked away? dishonorable.*
*oh you asked why someone was in a channel for talking about a topic if they didnt care about it? youre a dick sometimes man."
do yall fuckin hear yourselves?

but anyway yeah i think mjolnir is pathways man but i doubt hes the guardian.

its more likely the guardian is noble-6, honestly. same proxy of customization. kind of defeated by him dying on reach and not earth, but, hey, more likely than the guy whos always been a visibly white human male.

but thats mostly jus entertaining the tangent.

[drifting mulch]

in a way it might be important to understand how a message might be received vs. your interpretation of the tone. so even if you meant to be curious but the other party took it the wrong way, it's easier to agree to disagree or put it to miscommunication, no matter who instigated it

[dense tendon]

so like id get that if it werent you lookin at the question and going "wow you started that, i had to break my tradition of not picking sides just to call you a dick."

like, to be clear, i dont care that you called me a dick.

[plucky sierra]

I doubt it

The time gap is so long

I mean you could say he’s the first Battleroid, but Sgt Eddings is a stretch to me

[dense tendon]

im mad this chick started jus straight up lying about what was going on, playing the victim cuz she was mad her self described flippancy wasnt accepted as constructive.

no fuckin shit, bruh

[unreal sierra]

it’s crazy how people forgot that the guardian’s real name was said once. :b

[dense tendon]

like i was jus gonna ignore it til she said the shadowboxing shit here cuz thats mad hypocritical after what she was sayin prior.

[unreal sierra]

it’s cool that our guardian has a name in the lore pre-resurrection, not cool that people forgot. :<

[dense tendon]

and especially ironic considering shed then act persecuted cuz she said some dumb shit and was asked what that even meant by me and it was correctly identified as a logical fallacy by felwinter.

fym we're insulting your character, you're making that pretty clear rn.

[dense tendon]

but anyway

not aware of this. what are you referring to?

[unreal sierra]

friended ya’ btw. :3

[dense tendon]

accepted. thank you ❤️

[unreal sierra]

okay, so on venus there was an area a facility would scan you and say your guardian’s name. and since it’s gone; nobody will ever get to know it again since bungie LOVES sunsetting.

[dense tendon]

in d1? im pretty sure thats still there and it gives the name of a random braytech employee.

its not your credentials.

[median hemlock]

yeah i might have walked back my initial comment or apologized if we hadn't gone right into "you're maybe a bad person outside of videogame lore teehee"

[unreal sierra]

ohh, crazy

but wouldn’t it be cool if the guardian was a braytech employee .,.

[dense tendon]

no one said that until me after you left. and i say that cuz you misread a sentence, crashed out about it, all in pursuit of defending your ego cuz you got questions and dissent. so yeah, that shits an indication of what wed call *a poor character.."

[dense tendon]

i mean its possible, for sure.

[unreal sierra]

post-resurrection the guardian is the eternal hero, but pre-resurrection is there really a canon life the guardian had? (not mentioning the whole “make your own lore” thing) ‘cause if so, could they have been braytech security officer of some kind?

[plucky sierra]

Oh that may have been me. I never said that, it may have come across that way but definitely not what I meant. What I meant was if the topic was anything other than videogame lore (ultimately meaningless) a logical fallacy like cherry picking would be dangerous to make, therefore, let’s not do it here either. I was speaking nothing to your character and solely to your argument. I have no ill will towards anyone nor would I insult their character

[zenith nest]

Is the UESC AI Cerberus going to be important? I saw it was mentioned in an earlier NuCal contract

[plucky sierra]

Pre-resurrection I was a random Russian who died stuck in traffic

[dense tendon]

i dont think theres a definite article regarding %hero. meaning i dont think theres one "eternal hero." i think its a role one assumes. a mantle you take up. not a person you are.

[unreal sierra]

the lore for my hunter is a bit convoluted (since i have an entire yaoi with him that ties directly to marathon, though he himself isn’t from marathon but an alternate universe where similar events played out to marathon 1 and 2 on this ship called the odyssey when these dudes called the derelict show up and the ship AI mækir (gothic for sword) wakes him up to do crazy hero shit then he transcends time to become my hunter in destiny)

[dense tendon]

consider bungies rts, myth. Balor is the current Leveller. the one who evens the balance between good and evil. he was the last one as well, Connacht. but none prior, and none after.

[pure wagon]

Maybe? It could be used as a story plot point

[dense tendon]

i think %HERO is similar to the concept of the Leveller.

[zenith nest]

Yeah, I just thought it was odd to name the AI and have it not be important at some point, since it was instructing units to destroy evidence that we're attempting to recover

[dense tendon]

it is a job, and the employer is cosmic destiny.

are you the guy who had your job before?

[unreal sierra]

basically, pre “main universe” these dudes called the sentinels were built by some wacko precursors to garden the galaxies of the milky way and andromeda. powered by the big bang, you would think that would go well. but after a few million years their warping tech resulted in the universe imploding into a new big bang and scattering their pieces across the galaxies.

[sage lark]

Makes me wanna play more destiny

[dense tendon]

will you never be replaced?

the %HERO is the person who steps up to bat when destinys up to pitch.

theres a reason durandals named after a sword.

i should also note that my interpretation has Final Durandal speaking not to the Mjolnir, but the player. we are destiny. %HERO is our proxy in this world. the hands we use to climb the bars to eat the path.

Mjolnir jus realized we were there.

[sage lark]

I thought that was it

[dense tendon]

theres actually a very similar concept in The Elder Scrolls. both in the concept of the Prophetic Hero, and the player character of each game being a proxy for similarly para-narrative intervention, in universe.

[unreal sierra]

my hunter before he slipped into an exo was a cyborg much like a battleroid, one of 9. (my canon has so much norse and greek stuff), and so he saves the odyssey (which has a bladerunnery new york inside of it) and after finding his humanity through several mental breakdowns involving his human memories coming back and some james sunderland style nightmare shenanigans he finds that he was once the precursor race’s time bending deity with a flaming sword and that causes such a break that he shifts timelines about a thousand times until he reaches destiny. and while there (don’t quote me on this) he merges with the security officer and his ghost (who’s just mækir who hijacked a ghost shell) merges with durandal in a trippy dream sequence.

[dense tendon]

mk.

to be clear this is very interesting and id love to talk about it, its jus like, a very different topic.

[unreal sierra]

that is to say that i made my OC more closely connected to the actual lore so i could have it make some schizo sense if you smoke enough silkweave.

[dense tendon]

but i also think ive spoken my thoughts on my subject enough.

so i mean. balls bein served away from me now. i no longer have the talking stick. whoever wants the floor may take it.

[unreal sierra]

what are your thoughts on my lore so far? :3c

[dense tendon]

i like the allusions!

[unreal sierra]

there’s a novel’s worth of it i haven’t even truly begun to dive into, i just gave the abridged version. -w-

[dense tendon]

id probably have to know more to give proper thoughts on it, but it sounds neat so far 👍

[unreal sierra]

i’ll yap about it some more anytime you want. ^^

[dense tendon]

dms always open, homie

may not respond right away, but ill get back to ya when i got time.

[unreal sierra]

i’m also on every day, so yk. -w-

[dense tendon]

same, although thats more i always have access to discord rather than im actually always on it.

[pure wagon]

I just realize something

Next season is night time dire marsh. And according to some codex entries ||the mimics come out in full force at night||

[dense torrent]

gulp

which season do you think is gonna drop the Battleroid raid boss?

and will this game make it that far?

[unreal slate]

just wait for the seasonal menu item at participating Starbucks locations for drinkable cheeseburger promotional items

[dreamy hawk]

Oh that’s an exciting observation

[remote magnet]

Gonna be camping at anomalie saying spoopy shit in prox chat

[pure wagon]

I am not joking rn if you do that I will fucking hunt you down god as my witness

I will NOT be double spooked

[remote magnet]

Cool, was joking before, now il do it fr

maybe we will meet the cat that speaks in a human voice

Like, how you can hear Bingus meowing sometimes rn?
At night cats gonna swear like a sailor instead

[dreamy hawk]

Not to necro this dead conversation (as I immediately proceed to do so) but I think that this is something we should all be more mindful of and considerate of in this channel.

Speaking as an authority in the sense that I spend way too much time in here, just about everyone is participating in good faith and is earnest (the couple of trolls aside). Nearly every single disagreement I’ve seen has been folks who agree on the topic, but miscommunicate, and then that miscommunication spirals into nonsense.

If you find yourself disagreeing with someone, or feeling attacked, I would urge folks to try to start with a follow-up question before defaulting to assuming bad intentions. This is easier said than done sometimes and sometimes it’s just not our day, but pretty much every time I’ve watched people start to argue here I just feel sad because it always looks to stem from miscommunication, and I don’t want miscommunications to alienate folks from feeling like this is a welcoming place for them.

IMO it’s on all of us to create the kind of culture we want for this channel - automod isn’t going to. Sometimes it’s harder than other times and sometimes disengaging might be what’s needed, but ultimately we’re responsible for the energy we bring. 🤷

[lunar cove]

When someone disagrees with me about lore or whatever they're just right, thanks for the correction boss. Doesn't even matter if I know they're wrong, I'm not gonna fight you in the Marathon Lore discord

Durandal is Cortana? You got it chief

[unreal slate]

essentially everything is drinkable cheeseburger

[remote magnet]

Aight, heading out for today, let this convo be buried under 500 new comments. See ya

[pure wagon]

i am calling the POLICE

you're DONE buddy i was also being sarcastic af, go in there with rook and remind them what fear is

[remote magnet]

Load in with no gear, so you don't leave behind a bag. Make them question reality

[dense tendon]

[the internal screaming begins anew]

tbc thats a joke

[median hemlock]

i am not proud of how i participated in that conversation and think that's a very thoughtful thing to say

i can definitely say for sure, it isn't just me that falls victim to incredibly sudden dogpiles; I'm sure I've participated in them before too

[pure wagon]

This is devilishly brilliant

Has anyone here managed to get into the quarantine morgue locked room ?

[lilac sapphire]

I think there is something to be said for The Algorithms conditioning us to always assume the worst of someone's intentions. Everyone is primed to fight because it's hostile performative and that drives engagement. On top of short form text chat being the worst for communicating full meaning.

I say this as someone who was napping two hours ago

[round cedar]

Hey could anyone give me their perspective on a runners consciousness? I understand that when your mind is uploaded into the shell, you essentially become the pre made runner with a sort of personality, but do yall think that the runners sort of become the individual shell classes, or the original organic mind is still on control, just influenced by the shells, because it really seems like its the former, but id like some more perspectives

Like for example, the voice linea of the vandal shell seem really really characterized, so it leads me to believe that theres sort of a pre made personality that the runners take when they upload into the shell

[lilac sapphire]

I believe there is some kind of personality matrix yes but afaik* it's not well explained. Kind of handwavium from when the shells had names perhaps

[dense tendon]

i dont think its particularly a major distinction between the two. minds/consciousnesses are a synthesis of their physical form (the brain) and their memories (knowledge). for us thinking analog, there isnt a distinction there. runners are digitizations of the memories, implanted into synthetic form.
the form shapes the perception and understanding given context by the runners memories.

akin to running software on similar, but disparate hardware.

tldr: the shells shape the runners personality but the runner is more than just that.

its more accurate, imo, to consider each shell/runner combo its own person. meaning the same runner is a collection of similar takes on the same archetypes.

me running vandal isnt the same as you running vandal, but theyre closer than if i was destroyer and you thief.

[dreamy hawk]

I think of the personality matrixes like spinal reflexes or the unconscious. They “round out” your runner and definitely influence them, but they’re distinct from the conscious digitized mind.

[dense tendon]

yeah

imagine you have a fond childhood memory of apple pie. but you get a shell that gags at the smell of apples. same deal, really.

[round cedar]

I see I see, so essentially, the runners are all their own individuals, but their mannerisms and quirks are influenced by the shell they inhabit, like I think the styles probably emphasize that fact, that seems where shells that represent companies, ideologies, or groups, like crash casket, how tthe runners who wear those are generally dare devilish, while an anti-caution vandal might be way more professional since their like, private security or whatever

[dense tendon]

my understanding is theres a lot similar between a spht and a shell in physiology. the major distinction is that the organic interior of the cybernetic exterior is like, a really pared down bio engineered clone.

[round cedar]

I say those as examples in groups, I get that for each runner its much more personal on their own personalities and how their shell influences them

[dense tendon]

so these matrices come from the original clonestock, id imagine. stuff they either put in or left in, whether on purpose or out of inability to not.

you can only blast so much out of a brain before it no longer supports thought at all, id wager.
akin to only being able to clean a shirt so many times before holes wear through the fabric.

sidenote, finding out thief has the face/voice of the sekgen scientist what made the technology adds a very interesting angle to all of this.

[round cedar]

I know that destroyers voice was based off a lot of uesc commanders to add a commanding tone to their voices!!!

If that helps any

[dense tendon]

-# not least of which being why she made her shellf so hot

[round cedar]

Im more of a vandal type of fella myself

Evident of the pfp

AND BLACKBIRD

Love blackbird

[dense tendon]

i mean, me too, but 1) more gameplay/being vandal than being with vandal.
and 2) jus cuz the view from your house is beautiful dont mean you cant enjoy foreign sunsets, eh?

[round cedar]

Totally!!!! I love vandals gameplay and shell aesthetic, with it being inspired off of streetwear and all, but then again I can appreciate blackbirds uhhh

Uhh

You know

https://tenor.com/view/marathon-bungie-marathon-game-recon-recon-marathon-gif-13562192688624302112

[dense tendon]

i think its really funny vandal has built in yeezies.

i am not sure im allowed to express my thoughts on thief's design. not in a channel without an age gate, anyway.

[round cedar]

And also the fact that most of her styles have two sleeves that are just connext to her back piece

Like its not a sweater😭 its just two sleeves😭😭😭

[dense tendon]

i am also like incredibly amused by the singular water wing strapped to medics left calf.

bro needs his floatie

[round cedar]

I feel like id be much more inclined to share your view if her feet werent essentially just out

[round cedar]

The designs have so much random suit but I love it

Shit*

[dense tendon]

then we never had a chance to share this view.

i like all of the people i like. not jus one specific part.

i also think its really funny how vandal and recon have built in leggings/yoga pants, but thief is just basically a mechanical barbie doll with a sick jacket.

girl got the same fit as canti from FLCL.

an jacket

[unreal slate]

Don't worry everyone, Artemis 2's splashdown was just confirmed. We are still on track to making Marathon lore a reality.

[dense tendon]

oh my god is that John DrinkableCheeseburger

[dreamy hawk]

I guess thief’s toes are lore discussion…

[unreal slate]

[round cedar]

Now if a runners armpits were out!!

Then pretend i sent the image of that one fnaf novel cover

[dense tendon]

those are among the words in my mouth, i think.
jus like how i want [SPURIOUS INTERRUPT VIA 17.5 TERAWATT PLASMA BURST]

eh, not my best work. ive done the [USER WAS OBLITERATED FOR THIS JOKE] bit way better, before.

[broken jay]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEaqneT7C0M

good lore video

[lilac sapphire]

I heard vandals look is based on Martian punk subculture

That's why she's wearing a t shirt lol

[round cedar]

Mhmmhm!!!!

[dense tendon]

martians have access to yeezies, canonically.

kanye has spread to the stars.

truly, he has touched the sky.

[night tendon]

We need the Yeezy removal core 👀

[dense tendon]

those are her feet bro

she cant take em off

[night tendon]

I refuse to believe the Js are surgically implanted

[round cedar]

I feel like vandal would genuinely be a foot shorter if she took off her shoes

[night tendon]

Without a doubt

We love our short queens tho

[dense tendon]

i mean youd have to take off her entire foot with it since i dont think theyre really "seperate"

technically most runners are naked.

[dreamy hawk]

Sorta, more the other way around.

[lilac sapphire]

Side note, just because im noticing a lot of arachne flair right now. But have you guys noticed how Charter never really has any mainline quests for us, but he does check in every now and again to let us know how proud he is of our murdering?

[dense tendon]

or, shells, i guess

[dreamy hawk]

The GLITCH series was initially used as a standard by MIDA operatives who popularized the VANDAL SHELL during insurrectionist operations on Mars. The face/vocalization pattern pairing created a uniform base identity that when used across multiple VANDAL SHELLS made it difficult for UESC and local law enforcement to identify/track the individual RUNNERS participating in illicit activities. Further, the general streetwear fashion that became a trademark of GLITCH'S various styles became a trend amongst Martian youth, adding additional complexity to any anti-RUNNER enforcement efforts—it's easier to disappear when an entire subculture rises up around your aesthetics.

[round cedar]

I love love love charter bruh

[round cedar]

I love her codex entry

[dense tendon]

what goals could he have that we do not fulfill every run?

[lilac sapphire]

aah I see

[round cedar]

There has to be ONE shell built withe genitalia at least

[lilac sapphire]

not sure really, just that its different from how every other agent interacts with us

[dense tendon]

i doubt it. but i also doubt they cant add some.

[dreamy hawk]

I was actually going to say I wouldn’t be surprised if they all do.

[night tendon]

Retractable

[dreamy hawk]

Shells are printed to be close analogs to being alive, viscera, tissues, all of it.

[night tendon]

Silly goose

[dense tendon]

its like how your car doesnt come stock with heated seats.

[round cedar]

Well I feel like its not a necessity for a short lived bio cybernetic being dedicated to paying off their own debt

[dense tendon]

additional expense.

[round cedar]

Imagine having that conversation with nona

[dreamy hawk]

That’s how we use Shells but that’s not what they’re exactly designed for.

[round cedar]

Mmm your right

[lilac sapphire]

im sure sekiguchi has some sexy biomata models available for the so inclined back in sol

[round cedar]

I need to brush up on my lore😥

[craggy finch]

Probably one of the leisure models, we’re using either military shells, classified black ops stuff or criminal modifications

[lilac sapphire]

like altered carbon but not as grim

[dense tendon]

still got the slot for the add on, but no add on.

[craggy finch]

Some billionaire definitely has a big package model

[round cedar]

No i definitely feel like our shells dont have genitalia, itd just be useless for the most part

[dreamy hawk]

This would be most likely imo. But if DRE is a problem for digitized minds like it is Exos, 🤷

[dense tendon]

which is to say until proven otherwise every shell is AFAB. trans masc destroyer, lets gooooooo

[round cedar]

"Shit I know we're being attacked form all sides by drones but I really need to piss...."

[craggy finch]

I think with Runners we treat them as disposable anyways, while the military would likely try to hamper that kind of thing (Orion seems devoted to being a robot man)

[round cedar]

I actually wanted to make an oc that was originally a woman, organically, but she really likes the destroyer shell so she uses it

[craggy finch]

Switch from the Matrix (reverse)

[round cedar]

Is Orion a robot? I never read his lore

[craggy finch]

He’s also a biomata like us, but a UESC model

[dreamy hawk]

RIP @lilac sapphire in timeout for saying gen**als. 🪦

[craggy finch]

His big robot face might be his actual face or a helmet

[lunar cove]

UESC military officer wearing a shell

[round cedar]

Makes sense,' like how charter was once a runner like us

Charter probably has a penis

[lunar cove]

Orion is the senior UESC "human" actually in Tau Ceti

[craggy finch]

Nah that gets in the way of skinning

The extra mass goes to the arms

[dense tendon]

do it. give her/him a similar assassin girlfriend. make the mythical yuriyaoi. become as god.

[lunar cove]

there are some other human or shell operatives with him, but most of his troops are the robots, puppeted by the Cerberus AI

[night tendon]

Let’s be real

[round cedar]

Alternatively two dudes in a thief and vandal shell that are head over heels

[night tendon]

Gaius cracks

[dense tendon]

it is absolutely a knife now. it wasnt originally. it is now.

[craggy finch]

Apparently he’s even running out of the robots, might be the set up for a new set of enemies when he gets reinforced

Or the Pfhor arrive

[lunar cove]

I assumed they were printing them on site

[dense tendon]

its also held in yet another arm

[craggy finch]

They are but it’s eating up a lot

[dreamy hawk]

They are but they’re not free to replace.

[round cedar]

What if we get to work for uesc at some point??? Even though thats like, kind of against the whole point of the game, I think its a fun concept to explore

[lunar cove]

I saw a codex entry where his general basically tells him "you have essentially infinite money, go make more"

[dense tendon]

bros jus arms and knives all the way down

[lunar cove]

fuck the UESC ngl but like, fuck the pfhor

[round cedar]

His butthole is a shotgun barrel and his penis is one of those daggers he has

[lunar cove]

better the devil you know

[dreamy hawk]

In the one where he goes to cryo he mentions running out after flooding the marathon with ARS units in anger. A “that was probably not the best idea but I’m mad” moment.

[craggy finch]

The Marathon is a death zone for the UESC and they’re losing robots left and right in there while Runners are fucking up the surface

[dreamy hawk]

Specifically they’re not able to recover them from the Marathon.

[round cedar]

Yeah arent they like trying to kill the compiler but failing miserably

[dreamy hawk]

They can get things onboard, getting out is the problem.

Feel familiar? 💀

[lunar cove]

there might be more than just a compiler on board the Marathon

[craggy finch]

I want to see a proper war between the UESC and Pfhor, the original conflict was basically unprepared colonists vs a scout ship

[lunar cove]

deeper than Cryo

[dense tendon]

charter is infinite arms holding infinite knives. he has cut away from himself all but the most primordial implementation of murder.

[dreamy hawk]

I don’t think it would go very well.

[lunar cove]

the UESC would get rolled

[dense tendon]

i also think the heart he holds in one hand is his own.

[dreamy hawk]

A single solar system spanning government without FTL vs an empire with FTL.

It’d be like Halo again.

[craggy finch]

Dont threaten me with a good time

[dreamy hawk]

UNSC literally only won because of luck.

[lunar cove]

I think there was an entry somewhere where they were like, a full UESC fleet would have trouble with the Sfiera

[craggy finch]

Truth basically put a stick in his wheel spokes right at the finish line of the Tour de France

[lunar cove]

and the Sfiera is basically the pfhor coast guard

[dreamy hawk]

I believe this 100% even if I don’t recall.

[lunar cove]

also tbh fictional economics of scale don't always line up with irl

[craggy finch]

Would love a scenario of the UESC getting stomped and Orion grudgingly having to rely on Runners for strategic ops

[dreamy hawk]

Pretty much. Had they avoided the schism, too. A couple of really disastrous choices lead the covenant to fall apart more than properly lose.

[lunar cove]

I could see an extremely teched up Kardashev bullshit single-system empire beating the crap out of wider but less dense soft-SF empires

[orchid marsh]

I'm new here, so forgive me if this is known... The Runners do not have a shared perception of the world.

I was playing with a friend last night on Dire Marsh. We had to blow up a specific crate for a contract. He's describing it to me, and he calls out the NuCal number printed on the side. But the numbers on my screen were different. He said he's heard of that being a thing

[lunar cove]

yeah I think the earliest example of that was the lobster colours

but this is correct

[broken jay]

yeah theres also a lobster than changes colour based on the shell looking at it

[round cedar]

We were talking about something similar earlier!!!

[lunar cove]

and you're 100% right to catch that and point it out

[craggy finch]

The Marathon only really survived due to its sheer size allowing it to withstand the bombardment, the Pfhor’s MO of collecting slaves and Durandal’s wild card nature + the SO and S’pht wreaking havoc

[plucky sierra]

and the vending machine by the Holy Bovine

[broken jay]

runners are an unreliable narrator then, trust noone, including me

[craggy finch]

The Sfiera prioritised the Marathon, allowing the colonists to wipe out the minimal Pfhor force on the surface through the nine Mjolnir

[orchid marsh]

Okay, so it's 1000% deliberate

Like not just a result of procedural generation

[broken jay]

no its intentional for sure

[dreamy hawk]

I didn’t know about these numbers. Cool.

[dense tendon]

luck and the fact the covenant was mostly idiots. like, thel 'vadam is one of the greatest sangheili in living memory and its entirely because he takes a moment to evaluate whether stabbing is necessary when confronted with new concepts.
which makes him the most open minded covie to ever live.

[dreamy hawk]

Spoken like a heretic imo.

[craggy finch]

I’m the grunt chanting “here-tic” at Thel’s trial

[earnest hatch]

Just wait till you and your friend tell each other the color of the lobster you see.

[dense tendon]

kill me or release me.

[craggy finch]

An underused mechanic of Dead Space 3’s co op was Isaac going through hallucinations while player 2 just saw him tweaking out

[blissful dirge]

The elites are blind arbiter but i’ll make them see warbles

[orchid marsh]

Where is the lobster?

[craggy finch]

SOMEBODY BRING OUT THE LOBSTER

[lunar cove]

the covenant are basically like, imagine if a post-apocalyptic civilization discovered a working modern military destroyer, and figured out how to work the cannon and it instantly became the most powerful warship on the planet because everyone else was in pirate galleons

[blissful dirge]

Bro converts hundreds to his cause but begins a conversation with gunfire talking to the arbiter

[lunar cove]

but they don't know it has missiles at all

[dense tendon]

and those missiles are carrying nuclear payloads.

[earnest hatch]

Dire marsh, to the south I think. Near shallow water. Theres a few spots the lobsters show up. They’re a different cooor for each player.

[last shoal]

looking to run vault 3 and if things are going well and we can gear up fully down to eventually run my only vault 6 key in 300 hours of playing this game

[craggy finch]

Pfhor are the same, they found Jjaro star busters and use it to put down slave revolts, ending up releasing a universal god

[dreamy hawk]

BRING OUT THE DANCING LOBSTERS

[lunar cove]

Pfhor when the Pfive walk in

[dense tendon]

send this gamer to bar harbor, he must face the erasin crustacean.

[orchid marsh]

Great now I'm going to be annoying teammates with a constant refrain of "hey, what does this thing look like to you"

[craggy finch]

Monsters? Robots?

Bro we’re in a Walmart

[broken jay]

"whats do you see on your screen"

[orchid marsh]

Does he run the Factory that Destroys Your Gear?

[dense tendon]

oh wait, sylvia. she must face the erasin crustacean. my mistake.

[broken jay]

wheres leela tho

[dense tendon]

no matter, the lobter will erase all

regardless of gender

equal opportunity oblivion.

[craggy finch]

The neat thing about being a Runner is that you don’t even know your birth gender (Vandal and Assassin can both plausibly be given the same picture of an androgynous child that’s supposed to be their human self)

[orchid marsh]

"There is no gender where we're going. Just lobster."

[lunar cove]

their gender is mercenary

[dense tendon]

was*

[broken jay]

or were all the same person fractred into pieces

[dense tendon]

now, like the rest of them, it is past tense

[craggy finch]

The fucked up thing about Vandal in that cinematic is that her casual sarcastic attitude is a preset personality

[wooden crescent]

there are no genders only corporate property

[dense tendon]

sic semper crustacean

[broken jay]

only traxus forever

[orchid marsh]

Okay, but of all the runners Vandal is definitely the one that listens to hyperpop and collects shark plushies, lbh

[earnest hatch]

🦞

[round cedar]

Tra/xus!!!!!

[broken jay]

jimmy traxus, from accounting

[round cedar]

Thats definitely more thiefish to me to be completely honest

[craggy finch]

Until the same Runner switches to Destroyer and only feels an unyielding desire to sprint at a fire breathing robot

[night tendon]

Vandal is without a doubt blasting charli xcx while she murders robots

This is not my headcanon this is the truth

[broken jay]

shes a big crash fan for sure

[dense tendon]

she does look like she has trash music taste, yes. but the plushie shark she will protect with her infinite lifes.

[night tendon]

I knew there was a reason I’m a vandal main

[craggy finch]

Her design was made from MIDA stealing a bunch of generic shell templates and punking them up

[dense tendon]

tbf i like junkfood entertainment. its perfectly acceptable to have trash taste.

[craggy finch]

So they deliberately implanted teenage girl energy

[orchid marsh]

I mean I'm definitely that kinda gal and I main Vandal

[dense tendon]

i also main vandal. my actual irl name is vandal, bro. van, for short.

[coral bison]

So true

[craggy finch]

I’m a Destroyer main who unga bunga like a true caveman, peak is crew filling an entire Destroyer trio and collectively deciding to bum rush the Warden independently of group chat (we do not speak a single word to each other)

Just like SO intended

[dense tendon]

this but one of them is me as vandal who is getting there first because nyoom

the only way i could like this dork any more than i do is if she naruto ran like wraith from apex

[orchid marsh]

Also was a wraith main

[craggy finch]

She needs that random cartwheel

Not a practical mechanic or anything

Just cartwheels to stunt

Every time Assassin goes invisible he does a flip

[dense tendon]

i actually dont like wraith as a character, to be fair. but i think her presentation is funny.

well i guess thats not fair

[orchid marsh]

Destroyer just punches the air. The air bleeds

[dense tendon]

cant dislike a character for their personality when they dont have one.

[craggy finch]

The visual of him staring at a burning Destroyer with the implication of him remembering a previous death sums up my Destroyer life

[dense tendon]

destroyers got like, caramelldansen playin in his helmet all day.
bro is NOT hard. love that for him.

[plucky sierra]

I love destroyer

[dense tendon]

they believe he is the strong silent type. nope! autism.

jokes aside i actually really like his characterization.

[plucky sierra]

we need a destroyer edit that is like the Doomguy one with the music in his helmet and flashing lights

[dense tendon]

real

[plucky sierra]

This one: https://youtu.be/owEKTfe1Gno?si=edGbiL_jk5X-2oTv

but with rooks and assassins

[dense tendon]

the irony of his constant, sullen state of being overwhelmed is that he was literally built for this.

[dreamy hawk]

This is canonically what my triage listens to.

[dense tendon]

given his trait is a double jump, could also do this one
https://youtu.be/6qYV04Tx7pE?si=YYA_Fdvc7_ZA-Ute

[plucky sierra]

isn't that vandal?

i guess the airdash counts

[dense tendon]

no. vandal has an air dash.

yeah

well i guess vandals is the double jump, but i mostly use it for horizontal rather than vertical.

theres not much verticality on tciv, so far.

[plucky sierra]

You can get it to triple with the core

[lone prism]

The number of times I've seen Destroyers try to be Vandals...

[unreal sierra]

ROCKET JUMP.

[dense tendon]

says the guy who has his contact info in his bio

hows georgia this time of year? heard its lovely.

whats the kitty's name :3

oh, they deleted it

[lunar cove]

I was about to say "damn you can't threaten people like that in the Marathon lore discord" right before I read the context lmao

[earnest hatch]

Classic Arachne runner mentality.

[forest gate]

[fallen hollow]

I remember when this channel was about Marathon lore.

[dense tendon]

ah, it seems this topic is redacted. fair enough.

anyway i dont super have much more thoughts in me rn. been a good day of yap tho.

[earnest hatch]

Every three hours it gets to be a Marathon lore channel for two hours. But then for the hour in between it’s General overflow.

[unreal slate]

Escape will make me cheeseburger

[frigid echo]

Do we know why the runners are there? Do they owe people money or committed war crimes that got them unbodied?

[cloud terrace]

love of the game

[visual lynx]

General Overflow 🫡

[dense delta]

Its implied that the Vandal in one of the Trailers owes a lot of money.

[visual lynx]

about 25 cents in today’s money

(I actually did the math)

[unreal slate]

As I understand, why the shells are there is its own question with interesting answers unique from the runners themselves and different for each one.

[plucky sierra]

the shells are just a vehicle for the runners, they each have a "background" but presumably they're largely mass produced by Sekiguchi for any runner to use

[frigid echo]

I understand og marathon had a lot of figure it out in the game, but for a multiplayer game I feel like I would like more of a connection to the “why” in what i was running for.

[unreal slate]

Personally I'm fine with mystery and ambiguity, especially considering the lore shouldn't get in the way of what we see in-front of our own eyes. Maybe your reasons for running on Tau Ceti are different from mine. Maybe someone wants to write their headcannon into a youtube series and make entertaining content to explore what they come up with, without breaking established canon in any way. I think it's all cool.

Lots of stuff, including the shells are explained in bits of lore over time and codexes. For example Destroyer designed for/from military personnel, Thief was made by some master Thief and given the face of some Sekiguchi Genetics person as a mask of defiance or something. It's deep and chilling and rewarding to learn about.

[sterile seal]

Trying to bring drama into da lore channel lol

[lilac sapphire]

I think the motivations for each runner will always be left intentionally vague since it seems to me that Bungie has made lots of room for the "runner consciousness" to be a stand in for the player themselves. Not only is this a convenient plot device for a multiplayer game but it would also be consistent with the ending of Infinity. That said, we are often referred to as edgy mercenary types who operate in gray legal areas for clandestine clientele. Why someone (e.g. "you") would choose this line of work will probably always be in the realm of headcanon.

Like, why did my runner decide to load into dire marsh with just a LMG and 10 stacks of ammo and shoot in random directions until another runner killed them? Only I can know 🙂

[keen plank]

Those retaliators aren’t going to shoot themselves!

[forest gate]

Speaking of runner consciousness and runner motivations being vague, I went into Dire Marsh about 30mins ago with a free kit to do part 1 of the Run/Hide quest. I get a good spawn close to maintenance and make my way over, I'm playing assassin and 30secs after entering the building to go get the chem grenades another assassin opens fire on me, i cloak and able to get behind cover, the bots are shooting at him cause he made all this noise, then I don't know what possessed him to run at me in hiding behind a pillar where I was cloaked and crouched with my knife out. I double heavy him and get the finisher, this guy had purple shields and a kit worth 8k and a key for the complex shed

Why they picked a fight with me I'll never know, I had nothing to lose. Haha! My prio contract run turned into a very profitable adventure, now I have a shed key to use at a later date. Unfortunately now I have to do the second part which means making a lot of noise at intersection =/

[hallow vector]

what are the lore implications of this?

[keen juniper]

Arachne is 0.00034 percent less happy with your performance

[forest gate]

The decision making of runners is severely complicated and potentially compromised. Maybe due to the anomaly or the digitisation of their consciousness

[hallow vector]

or maybe that guy had indigestion

[forest gate]

I was forced to partake in the sacred thermodynamic of violence

[forest gate]

One too many unstable biomass

[lilac sapphire]

You can't be forced to partake in the laws of the universe 🤔

Only... compelled

[hallow vector]

reconstruction!
autism HUD overlay
The runner arrived in dire marsh, his stomach made The Noise, and he realized there's no way he'd be able to hold it until he could extract. he made the honorable choice rather than shitting himself, and went out in a blaze of glory rather than a blaze of brown

[forest gate]

Mmmm, gravity is acting on me without my consent!

[hallow vector]

just imagine the autism hud, you've all seen it, nobody here is pure it's a lore channel

[forest gate]

Is runner poop brown? Or blue?

[hallow vector]

if your poop is the colour of your blood you should see a doctor

i mean if it's bright red it's probably not cancer, more likely you've got a fissure, but it's best to get it checked out

[forest gate]

True but who’s to say it’s not like purple for runners

[hallow vector]

judging by the game's colour palette it's probably like

fairly vivid

also whenever you go to a different continent and your gut biome encounters the local bacteria for the first time things can also get pretty chromatically interesting come terlet time, this is a whole different planet so like

well if the artificial satellite we're on discharges into space, it's probably discharging rainbows on the regular

[icy prism]

What the hell did I just read

[manic gull]

new priority contract available

[drifting mulch]

i believed you

[manic gull]

thanks

[manic gull]

oh w8 u mean ingame mb

there was a cryptoscam msg above me that got obliterated

[icy prism]

wait a minute just realised something lore wise

so the colony was called New Cascadia

does that mean Cascadia actually formed in the marathon timeline?

[drifting mulch]

oooh 😅

[icy prism]

hm

with how many moons tau ceti 4 has, eclipses must be pretty common

[quiet cedar]

What about a moon moon eclipse?

[icy prism]

that defo happens

[pliant elm]

It's quite common and its called an occultation.

[quiet cedar]

Yeh i know that

[pliant elm]

It's quite a bummer for attitude control systems in space.

[unreal slate]

Marathon heard Tau Ceti liked moons so they brought another one from Mars

[earnest hatch]

Yes but judging by their size, not total eclipses.

[icy prism]

House warming gift

[visual lynx]

so yo can moon yo moon while yo dog's Moon Moon, dawg

[pure wagon]

Has anyone actually interpreted the AI uplink mural? Or do we rly have no clue

[dreamy hawk]

No clue afaik.

[pure wagon]

Thought as much

[frigid echo]

Can see that, honestly that makes sense. I wonder though of they will create a more customizable shell, like either at a Sekiguchi level or a certain contract line to grind for. Would be a great pull of players back to the game to get a shell that is customized like them. Not like destiny level of customization, but maybe like halo 3 level.

[unreal slate]

Might b cool, but is more of a question of game design at that point. There is intentionality in the way gameplay is structured so you have an idea what to expect when you see a particular shell. They likely considered swapping out abilities or cosmetic stuff very early on and ruled against it long ago.

[frigid echo]

True, but they could design the shell to have a good profile, where the customizations do not take away from it

[unreal slate]

I guess that would come down to specifics and degrees. In any case, bringing it back to lore, another concept I've been intrigued by lately is the idea that the corporations do not really care at all about who the runners "are" and will actually delete parts of your memories they deem unfit for their objectives. If runners had freedom to make their own customized shells, that would kind of stand in opposition to that compelling theme, that the price of our "immortality" is to become pawns of this distopic corp run universe.

[earnest hatch]

I’ve seen a few interpretations. The figures being colony AI seems the most common interpretation.

On the right had panel for example it seems the red AI killed/sacrificed the agricultural AI (forget its name) either to aid a bunch of colonists or to prevent the agricultural AI from corrupting the colonists.

The “spear” killing the agricultural AI looks like a caduceus, a Roman staff with two snakes wrapped around it representing a messenger for Rome. Not to mistaken for the rod of aesclepius (one snake around a rod) which is a symbol of medicine.

Oh, I think the red character in the mural might be the S’pht killing an AI? Killing the planet Tau Ceti? And this causes the infection of the colonists.

My reasoning is because I just unlocked Personal Aphorisms from Anchorite Provisions, which calls the S’pht the red messenger. Which reminds me of how the cult also calls the S’pht the red messenger.

So we have a red figure holding the staff of a messenger. Which seems to refer to the S’pht.

[drifting mulch]

Is there anything similar to the ai uplink mural in Cryo?

[earnest hatch]

Not that I’ve heard of or seen.

[forest gate]

Turn around…

I wonder if this S’pht Compiler in Cryo Archive is giga juiced because it’s been altered by the anomaly too.

[golden copper]

Okay so one thing I am very confused on is where in the timeline marathon fits when compared to the original series. Some things feel like they dont line up, so is this an alternate cannon/timeline or am I just trying to place the story in the wrong place?

[sage lark]

After Infinity

7th timeline probably

2nd attack on colony hasnt happened

[plucky sierra]

What Simon said. M1 definitely happened and is very important to NuMarathon. M2 may have happened but some events clearly didn’t, regardless it’s mostly an unrelated tangent right now. M:inf probably happened and explains why things are different here.

[icy prism]

hi guys got a lore question i need answered for my fan fic. anyone know the names of any of the cities on mars?

[craggy finch]

It's based on whether the UESC is just being quiet about Durandal contacting them, their top brass is very suspicious

Orion is clueless but he's clearly just a pawn

[plucky sierra]

Yes but other things are different like the Pfhor returning

[craggy finch]

Misriah and Palace Mons I think

Vandal's fashion is very popular in Palace Mons

[icy prism]

i see i see

thanks that is actually very useful

[craggy finch]

Misriah is the site of the UESC massacre that kicked off a war

[icy prism]

i see i see

[golden copper]

Genuinley forgot about how confusing marathon infinity was to me lol I gotta refresh

[bleak canyon]

Is Marathon 2026 based on a different timeline where the Four didnt glass Tau Ceti IV?

[plucky sierra]

Yes, hence the 7th is likely it

But it also could be some other completely unrelated timeline

But I fail to see how that’s not a “reboot”

[bleak canyon]

Thanks for the answer. Does that mean in this timeline Durandahl is still stuck on the Marathon or we dont know?

[icy prism]

got another question

what accent does thief have, i can't quite pin it down for some reason

[pure wagon]

Has there been anything to suggest they even got near the anomaly ?

[earnest hatch]

It’s also possible that the Pfhor never actually nuked the colony. We mostly get that as second had information from unreliable characters. It’s mentioned in the omniscient epilogue but those seem unreliable too.

[forest gate]

You presume the anomaly has finite effect radius

[prime mesa]

hey guys i decided to come here because i think it might be more fun than general

[forest gate]

Most of the time

[pure wagon]

Well yea. They said the time dilation effect was within a certain range. Most other weird stuff to happen away from the anomaly was caused by the contagion ||which is kind of an extension of the anomaly so point taken||

[prime mesa]

how about those sillycybin cheeseburgers? putting together a theory that they were using the cheeseburgers to try to gaslight a big group of people (kind of like how cults use psychedelics as a form of control)

maybe the anomaly effects are partially due to them incorporating psilocybin in their food sources?

[forest gate]

We just don’t know enough yet I guess to dismiss anything as beyond plausible. Entirely possible the S’pht up on the marathon has been effected over the last 75+ years even over such a large distance

[forest gate]

Could be, the anomaly seemed to have all sorts effects on organics

[prime mesa]

someone had told me that this marathon was loosely based on the originals, and thet it's not a sequel.

[sage lark]

It iterates and expands on the original trilogy

With how infinity is

It might aswell be a sequel

[forest gate]

In the 3rd Marathon game Infinity. The Security officer moves through 6 alternate timelines ultimately finding the one where all the things line up so they can stop w’rkcanter from being released from lhowon sun. The prevailing theory is we are in the 6th alternate timeline aka the 7th timeline

In this timeline the Pfhor never comeback and wipeout the colony on TCIV as we’re told happens in Marathon 2.

In fact the first Pfhor attack seems something the UESC leadership on the marathon have suppressed within the colony.

[earnest hatch]

I think it also depends on how you count the timelines. We could be in the sixth or eighth timeline depending on what you include.

[stuck delta]

What do we know about the CARRI event that is happening this season?

[earnest hatch]

Nothing

There’s some theories on what the acronym means, but I haven’t seen anyone actually confirm anything true.

[rocky jungle]

I need a dev or mod or support member or something how would I go abt contacting someone

General chat is screen rot can someone help me

[pure wagon]

Carri?

[pure wagon]

#1478943087957905550

[earnest hatch]

You can try to ping a mod or you could go to Bungie’s website and find the support page.

[earnest hatch]

Yes. It’s a special mid-season event that’s been announced in Marathon’s marketing.

[pure wagon]

Any date for when it starts ?

[earnest hatch]

Not sure, I think the 14th when the midseason balance updates launch.

[pure wagon]

Oh shit so next week

Imagine if it’s an event encouraging cryo teams to help other teams to get through the whole thing

[earnest hatch]

That would be cool.

[strange nova]

Would be crazy considering how many times I've been fucked over by teams deciding to kill instead of trying to make it out during the last 2 mins

Like... If yall left us alone we probably would've both made it out on our separate ways but nah, we both die, screw the vault loot I guess

[earnest hatch]

There’s too much value in killing other teams even if you don’t loot them and not much value in leaving them alive, so everyone defaults to shoot on sight.

[strange nova]

Even though it dooms us both yeah
And I'm talking like, teams deciding to hide in control to ambush us after we trigger an exfil. They don't know where we were trying to go, they might not find the final exfil, but yeah time to kill???

Basically ON the last minute of final exfil

aka when everyone should be trying really hard to find it

[earnest hatch]

Yeah. The TTK makes camping an even worse problem than in other games.

[pure wagon]

ive only ever met teams interested in killing me so lol

[strange nova]

But the ttk also makes it really hard to get kills with non-shotguns if you don't get a chance to teamshoot, I've had so many situations where I go full auto in effective range, with headshots, I don't even manage to crack shields before they hide behind cover

If anything it should be shorter 😂 Some of these fights last SO long

[earnest hatch]

I’ve downed other players with purple shields when I was on a grey free kit assault rifle. About one second total. And all the streams I’ve seen seem to confirm that level of TTK.

[pure wagon]

How long was it between downing them and their team mates downing you tho :p

[earnest hatch]

This was solo. When I play with teams I’m using blue shields and die just as quick.

[pure wagon]

Relatable

[earnest hatch]

Back to lore though. A lot of people are speculating about the nature of the Anomaly. I haven't seen anyone making a big deal about how the Anomaly only appeared AFTER the attack on the colony. So, something about the Pfhor attack triggered the Anomaly to come into existence.

This makes me think even more that the Anomaly is Jjaro in origin. Jjaro technology reacting to the presence of the S'pht, who also use Jjaro tech, would make sense. Or some S'pht doing their compiler business and accidentally stumbling on an old Jjaro network and activating the Anomaly by mistake.

[pure wagon]

Or the phfor attacked once, detected the anomaly, recognized it for what it was, and noped on out of there

I think the anomaly is something other than jjaro. Something malicious

I don’t think it’s that wrkncawhatever it’s called tho

[earnest hatch]

The Pfhor aren't that smart. They blew up a sun because they couldn't handle losing at Lhowon. Also, the Anomaly didn't appear until after the Pgfhor attack. Meaning after the Pfhor lost.

[pure wagon]

hmmmmmm true. good points

[orchid marsh]

The Anomaly almost seems purpose built to discourage colonization. There are codex entries referencing common nightmares where colonists' loved ones tell them to leave. It's like the living ocean in Solaris, if the ocean were very adamant about being left alone

So I wonder if it's malicious behavior or just working as designed, and there's something else we really shouldn't be poking at on TCIV

[icy prism]

this also brings up the question of would it help someone leave if they promise to never come back

[orchid marsh]

That's an interesting idea

[icy prism]

yeah

[orchid marsh]

Also, I swear Durandal paraphrases the "this is not a place of honor" warning in one the trailers

[ocean comet]

Where has everyone gotten there Truthworm.exe datapads from? I've been looking all over, could just be unlucky

[median hemlock]

still thinking about how the pfhor are established to work for an intelligence that is described as "insane" by the people who work directly under it

[earnest hatch]

Oh yeah. This is one of the things I remember clearly because it was so interesting: the Hindmost Creché.

[earnest hatch]

The Anomaly does discourage colonization. Except it didn’t activate when the humans established the colony. It only activated after the colony was attacked by the Pfhor. So something had to of triggered it (that wasn’t just the presence of human beings).

[orchid marsh]

Another point in favor of the S'pht presence being the trigger then.

[icy prism]

cool

[orchid marsh]

I noticed that the S'pht are characterized as obsessively curious. Maybe at some point we'll have to save them from themselves

I.e. they start triggering even more aggressive reactions from whatever is on the surface

[median hemlock]

idk runners are also obsessively curious in a way

could be a deliberate foil

[earnest hatch]

Judging by the mural in AI uplink I think the Spht destroyed or damaged something inside the planet which caused the Anomaloy/contagion to happen. #📚marathon-lore-discussion message

[plucky sierra]

It activated when the colony started mining and harvesting planetary data in the Perimeter complex

[earnest hatch]

Not according to one of the Traxus quest codex entries. According to that it didn't appear until after the attack.

[plucky sierra]

That was after

[earnest hatch]

It's in the third chapter of the Traxus quests but can't look up right now.

[plucky sierra]

Perimeter expansion was post attack

Read the Kuzmin, I logs that talk about it

[earnest hatch]

Per Unsanctioned Hostilities 1/5:

Records confirm "the Anomaly" appeared in New Cascadia some time after the attack on the colony

[plucky sierra]

[IKUZ]: After the relays went up… We should've known. We should've… left. The Zone. The planet. That much data. That much… untranslated information. We know planets… I know planets. How they work. What's inside. Only, yeah… Only, maybe, this one's different. This one's not like ours. Not like anything we've ever considered. And instead of respecting that. Instead of acknowledging, ya know, that maybe we aren't prepared to poke at answers we don't even know how to ask. Instead of anything else… We built towers to the goddamn sky to steal impossible data from the heart of a world we thought we'd conquered. We could've stopped. We should've… Once one relay was not enough. Once… But they were scared. Leadership… Colony Command… They pushed for answers. They pushed to understand something more than we can understand. I saw… I did… I saw the readings. I warned them. It was too much. It's not… Far as I know… Far as anyone could say… It's not natural. Not to us.
….

After the attack the colony continued to expand into perimeter, weird data prompted the expansion to turn into a dig site and the drilling/harvesting of that data caused the anomaly

and this coincides with the discover of the Contagion (I think the anomaly released it)

[earnest hatch]

So far it sounds to me like the Anomaly first appeared and then they set up the relays to study the data coming out of it.

And that's when it got worse.

[plucky sierra]

There was weird data, but not the anomaly

[earnest hatch]

All I can say is this entry makes it pretty clear. Kuzmin's log is from his perspective and it doesn't actually conflict with the Anomaly appearing shortly after the attack.

[plucky sierra]

Perimeter was going to be a Terra-platforming effort but weird data prompted drilling and data analysis, this started the anomaly which released the contagion

[plucky sierra]

“Some time” is not shortly and the Kuzmin logs clearly detail a reason it started

Even ONI or one of the AI says the colony prioritized expansion over survival, after the attack they tried to go back to what they were doing and accidentally caused the anomaly

[earnest hatch]

I'd say that the mural at AI uplink also suggests that the Spht killing or destroying something in the planet triggered the contagion or Anomaly.

[plucky sierra]

We don’t really know what it means but I think it’s unrelated for now

It doesn’t look like S’pht markings at all

[earnest hatch]

I didn't say they were S'pht markings.

[earnest hatch]

We can intuit what some of it means. #📚marathon-lore-discussion message

The red character wielding the Caduceus, the staff of messengers, definitely seems to be a Red Messenger.

[plucky sierra]

Again we have S’pht made markings from the Vault 7, I don’t think it’s S’pht

[earnest hatch]

It doesn't matter. This mural was created by humans not S'pht. But it seems to be depicting the S'pht from a human perspective.

[plucky sierra]

We also have many colonist drawings of S’pht and they’re all properly shaped, I think it wouldn’t be humanoid if it was supposed to be S’pht

[earnest hatch]

It's a mythologized imagery by cult members.

[plucky sierra]

Not even to mention, the character is pink not red

It’s like a dark pink

[earnest hatch]

I think that's splitting hairs. It looks red to me and I think if you ask random people they would default to saying red.

Also the Caduceus is too specific not to have meaning.

[plucky sierra]

That’s cause environmental lighting, the red is on the border and they’re clearly different colors

[earnest hatch]

My man, there are different shades of red. It's red.

[plucky sierra]

It’s slightly darker than NuCaloric pink but it’s pretty pink

[earnest hatch]

I put the image into paint, used color picker, got the value and put it into google and it says "The hexadecimal color code #BB1846 represents a deep, vibrant shade of crimson or red-magenta. "

[plucky sierra]

#e40266

Use that

[earnest hatch]

Why would I? Lol

[plucky sierra]

From the actual mural not an ingame screenshot

[earnest hatch]

What do you mean actual mural?

[plucky sierra]

The artwork

[earnest hatch]

Does this mural exist in the real world somehow?

[plucky sierra]

Not in game

[plucky sierra]

DM’d the image

[earnest hatch]

Even when I use this google AI says "The hex code #E30165 represents a vivid shade of reddish-pink, often described as a vibrant Amaranth, Fuchsia, or deep Magenta."

[plucky sierra]

I sent the color picker too lol

It depends on the pixel you pick but it’s very clearly normal magenta and not very red

[earnest hatch]

I think if the average person heard magenta or reddish-pink, they'd say red, or maybe violet for megenta.

[plucky sierra]

Magenta is not red

If it’s representative of a compiler it’d be as red as the border of the mural

[earnest hatch]

Anyway, even if you wanted to split hairs on this there's the Caduceus which is the staff of messengers. And both Jasper and the cult call the S'pht the red messengers.

[plucky sierra]

red messenger not “reddish-pink/Magenta messenger”

[earnest hatch]

Yeah, the average person would just call reddish-pink red or pink. Not really any pink messengers in the game are there.

[plucky sierra]

It’s pink and therefore not a compiler

[earnest hatch]

It's red. Or red enough for an artistic representation. And even if you don't except that, ignoring everything else to just repeat "IT'S PINK 😤 " isn't a strong argument against that interpretation.

[plucky sierra]

Look at anything remotely supposed to be a compiler, like the effigy. It’s just normal red

It’s also humanoid and would have some kind of cloak

[earnest hatch]

Wait till you learn about the use of metaphor and abstraction in visual art.

[plucky sierra]

The only thing supporting this is a “messengers staff” and the idea that if you squint hard when it’s foggy in game it looks red

There is proper red in the mural, it’s not like they were short on paint

Even if you want to say it’s red there more obvious allegories that make sense

[earnest hatch]

Yeah, it's surprising that a religious cult represents things non-literally and symbollically. /s

[earnest hatch]

Then suggest them.

[plucky sierra]

Just finished my lunch break, I’m typing it up but give 2 minutes

[lone cedar]

What the hell are personality martrixes in a shell? and how do they effect the runners personality when wearing them? I dont understand

[robust vale]

the personality matrixes are basically preset voices, speaking patterns, and mindsets that help runner minds not explode from being in a shell that's not their body

it soothes the transition from body to body and keeps the dysmorphia at bay

as well as allowing them to interface easier with a shell's systems

[plucky sierra]

Let’s say it is Red
The 3 main figures represent the 3 main marathon AI
Leela blue
Durandal green
Tycho red. rod of Caduceus because he was the messenger to Sol, the ai in charge of comms.

The colors have been depicted this way since the OG games. Leela in most timelines was abandoned left as the only ai (before being kidnapped) and in the mural she is isolated and weeping. Tycho and Durandal famously opposed each other and fought. Perhaps this is a timeline where Tycho triumphed over Durandal (we don’t know yet). The connections beneath are the subroutines left by Durandals defeat. We know he split himself up this way and left at least 1 behind, 7 is a very Bungie number.

This is not my interpretation, I don’t think it’s red, it also ignores the 11 cryo pods beneath “Leela” but its stronger symbolism than a compiler

The three figures are clearly different depictions of the same type of thing and not an AI a Planet and a S’pht

[deft wagon]

And exactly that's what I just said. Maybe you lack the ability to read?

Lmao so petty

yuk

[earnest hatch]

Those are not the colors of the AI from the original game. They were all green. Tycho was only red in M2 because he was communicating from the Pfhor who were coded red. Leela was never depicted as blue. You're thinking of Cortana.

[deft wagon]

Burning 230 mil isn't a joke

4 months lmao

[final karma]

Every run of cryo I play the teams I fight have the bio gun and I do not have that gun. Seems like it is time to uninstall? not sure how to compete with that and I guess my matchmaking is only going to pair me with those teams so there is no point in continuing?

[earnest hatch]

Lol, this is from three days ago. Your three day timeout didn't teach you any lessons?

[deft wagon]

You talk like a reddit mod Lmao. Stop being terminally online

[earnest hatch]

If you think a normal statement sounds like a reddit mod then you're the one who needs to stop being terminally online.

[deft wagon]

Telling someone I didn't learn a lesson doesn't sound like a normal statement. More like someone is trying to be authoritarian. You might just be the one who got me timeout

Just for me making a statement. You were so hurt that you called the mods

[plucky sierra]

Yes “in game” nearly every project depicting them uses that color scheme, and even hints in this game show the 3 different colors. I’m not thinking of Cortana I never played nor cared for halo lol.

[deft wagon]

But I get it that's just how it is people like you here

Maybe go outside this server and see how marathon is being discussed. Maybe that will show you the real marathon outside this bubble XD

[earnest hatch]

No, you're just wrong. Leela wasn't portrayed as blue. Tycho wasn't portrayed as red, just the Pfhor.

[plucky sierra]

can we get one day of lore discussion/debate that doesn’t turn into pointlessly attacking each other please? You bring up old beef for no reason.

[deft wagon]

That man got me timeout for adding lore to the game

[earnest hatch]

I've never called the mods on anyone in this server, lol. But your confusion in the previous sentence makes it clear how your parent raised you.

[deft wagon]

Your responds clearly says it. Gottem

Its so obvious. But let's not get over our heads here shall we

[earnest hatch]

It doesn't, you're just terminally online and don't understand normal talking.

[plucky sierra]

They weren’t “portrayed” at all in the trilogy, all we got was messages from them, but again, multiple depictions of them from that time have different colors and I am of the opinion based on hints that those color schemes bled into this game.

[deft wagon]

Clearly you lack the ability to read the room here.

[earnest hatch]

From fans, not from devs. It's not canon.

[plucky sierra]

Well this is quickly devolving. I am gonna go to a lore channel free of whatever this is

[earnest hatch]

Your guilty paranoia is not "the room".

[deft wagon]

sigh

I have no words for you bud

[remote magnet]

Oh, is this new lore that just dropped?
I dont like it

[deft wagon]

If my words offend you clearly you need to have a good look at yourself in the mirror

[earnest hatch]

Nothing you've ever done has offended me ever.

[deft wagon]

Nothing like reporting me to the mods lol

[earnest hatch]

Lol, I never reported you. Not worth the effort.

[deft wagon]

Keep denying it. You knew I was timed out and you replied 3 days ago after I was timed out

The messages align bud

[earnest hatch]

Real Sherlock Holmes sluething over here. Lol.

I wasn't even the first person to post it. I was just copying them. But no, you've got it all figured out.

[deft wagon]

🤣

I have no words for you. Playing the victim card

[earnest hatch]

Lol, what victim card? You're just making random copy pasta now.

[nocturne shadow]

holy mother of ragebait

[night tendon]

Bro comes back after time out to necro a 3 day old thread nobody cares about 💀

[plucky sierra]

Ah...not to be a spoilsport but all of this is completely wrong. The story of marathon is the story of Pheidippides a Greek messenger who ran all the way from the battlefield of Marathon back to Athens to announce the Greek victory over the Persians in 490 BC. What the hell are you even talking about bro? Didn't you do ANY research before making this video?

[earnest hatch]

The story of Marathon is when I tried to run one but got tired so I went to get pizza with friends.

[dreamy hawk]

Don’t remember why but certainly have them blocked.

Though I think I can guess.

[dreamy hawk]

The real Marathon is the friends we made along the way.

[night tendon]

Pretty much just tried to tell us the game was shutting down in a few months “according to Sony” and we were stupid corpo boot lickers for disagreeing, carried on mindlessly for a while while we laughed at him until he got timed out

I only remember this because I remember being shocked that someone can talk with zero brain synapses firing

[turbid scaffold]

If there was a secret levels episode like concord I might have been worried but there’s been Yuri fanart of some of the shells so I think the game will be ok, plus a secret levels episode for it now I think would be great and I think it would fit the vibe of either that or love death robots

I don’t think I saw a single piece of fanart of concord even

And how much money was dumped into that again?

I’ll take my interesting Sony games like death stranding and numarathon over a bloated corporate mess

Anyways what’s the deal with the compiler just bing chilling in cryo?

[sage lark]

Its being studious

Academic weapon

[turbid scaffold]

Academic weapon?

[sage lark]

Its gonna smash those SATs

[robust vale]

we don't quite know the Compiler's deal at the moment but we've got some hints

[turbid scaffold]

It laser beamed its way into the labs I think right?

[robust vale]

my personal hunch is that it was just trying to soak up as much information from the Marathon's network and later the UESC as it could

the compiler trace entries do seem to imply that instead of waiting for the rebellion under the pfhor, the sph't have kinda bought into it and seem to be hungry to consume, presumably information of some kind

so it's been trying to just weasel its way around the systems for a bit

especially since, looking at the Xenobiopsy items, they mention several autopsies of the Pfhor but only one so far of the Compilers

[turbid scaffold]

The gun also seems to on inspecting it mess with your eyeballs or something

[robust vale]

I have seen that, yeah

[turbid scaffold]

Also as for the Carri event has anything more been mentioned or just was only on the roadmap so far?

[robust vale]

nope, only the roadmap

[plucky sierra]

If it’s a dire marsh event they might open 2nd floor complex

[turbid scaffold]

Hmm i c

[warm thicket]

Pinhweel pt 2

[robust vale]

seems a bit odd to be adding that to dire marsh when they already are adding night mode

[turbid scaffold]

Electric boogaloo

Perhaps it’s an underground section on one of the maps?

[plucky sierra]

I could see it as a build up to Night Marsh

[night tendon]

Well concord peaked with 700 players

Not exaggerating

[robust vale]

yeah marathon has an actual dedicated fanbase

I think a portion of the population are playing more for the fun of the gameplay than the progression, ngl

which is a very good thing

[night tendon]

It’s hard to have fan art when only 1e^-9 % of the worlds population bothered to play

[bold karma]

What are the current credible theories for the C.A.R.R.I event (yes I've heard of the Cryo Archive Rook Run Initiative)

[night tendon]

I don’t think there are any credible theories, everything is spitballing

[remote magnet]

Marathon is also generally aknowledged by now as an genuinely good game. The poor numbers are due to beeing a hardcore game in a niche genre

[broken jay]

which can also change over time

[icy prism]

yup

[orchid marsh]

I (unironically) love that Yuri fanart is a leading indicator of success

[turbid scaffold]

Ya, for me honestly it looked like another hero shooter in the realm of the few that existed but didn’t stick around

Deadlocked at least will stick around I think

[turbid scaffold]

It makes sense though

[night tendon]

It looked like they tried to give the gears of war aesthetic an overwatch color scheme and it just appealed to no one

[remote magnet]

Yeah, it didnt look like anything. There was no through-line, and the characterdesigns where unpleasant

[night tendon]

And that’s not even counting the clunky gameplay, bad UI, and genuinely cringeworthy voice acting

[sharp radish]

How many years was the colony active when Durandal goes rampart?

[elfin goblet]

I actually liked Concord but only because of one character (Roka) and that I was good at the game, consistently top fragger.

I got a free copy from the devs anyway.

[remote magnet]

Hm, i heard the gameplay itself was fine

[sharp radish]

these days fine is not enough

[young token]

for real

[sharp radish]

it was an ok game, think the way they released it gave it no chance

[young token]

it cant compete to newer, better, games

[remote magnet]

It is actually. If the rest is good, some things can just be fine.
But fine will not save something if the rest is bad

[sharp radish]

had to play 2h of deathmatch before you can play the main game mode, and the numbers and maps were balanced for that gamemode not deathmatch

it did not look different enough on the surface

[young token]

real

[sharp radish]

the differences with similar games were niche, you would have to have played other games like that to understand, but then why would you leave that game you are already playing?

[night tendon]

Watch some, it’s really clunky and not smooth at all

The gunplay is super jank

[sharp radish]

it was ok, but yeah nothing to call home for

some characters were fun, the gunslinger guy was basically sturm+drang from D2

but the tone really turned me off

[remote magnet]

No. Gameplay has to be felt, you cant gauge it from just watching. Im not here defending concord, but you simply cant make a judgement on stuff like that from just watching

[night tendon]

MR BREAST?????

[sharp radish]

Click on message > Apps > Marathon Official > Report message

murder that fool

[turbid scaffold]

1 billion pigeons eat this man

[desert hazel]

Where have yall found corrupt ai data logs on dire marsh? I’ve never found one and I wanna know where to look

[turbid scaffold]

Does to specify in the codex where they can be found I forget?

[manic gull]

defo randomized like all lore collectibles are, but there are 100% loot table rarities at play like you'll get better rarity lore from prestige key rooms

[desert hazel]

Prestige key 🥀

[sharp radish]

16 codex entries from a Cryo run, time for some reading

does cryo have prestige room? Cause I looted a lot of lore items from one room there

[night rampart]

Theres an armory room which has a ton of valuables sitting on shelves

[plucky sierra]

There’s an “arsenal” that requires tier 4 clearance. Aside from that there’s a bunch of strong rooms that aren’t particularly impressive for lore but good for gear

[sharp radish]

that must have been the one

got two helmets, 3 Journals, 2 of those "floppies" looking things and 3 cryo liquid bottles

that room was crazy

[night rampart]

Yeah its pretty good

Ironically I think cryo is the closest I am to finishing a map's lore entries

Just because when I find valuables I find a lot of them

[sharp radish]

Yeah I have the same with Outpost

[night rampart]

I have all of strauss' journals and cryoprotectant entries

Like halfway on a bunch of others

[sharp radish]

same!

I'm reading the journals now

[snow nacelle]

When bots are finishing downed Runners, is there any lore on what's happening?

I assume the wires are trying to pull data from your body, but they seem way more "organic" than the rest of the machine. Similar to the creepy drone tentacles too.

[weary portal]

They stealing your data I guess

[lunar cove]

I don't think there's a canon explanation

it's more something that clearly has a purpose and people are trying to make educated guesses

[peak halo]

Do you think the runners canonically say skill issue to each other?

[blissful dirge]

head canon yes

[earnest hatch]

I think in one of the dev videos they said that they’re downloading your data/knowledge.

[blissful dirge]

Theyre looking through your browser history

[lone prism]

Aight, chat. What's the CARRI event?

[night rampart]

Why would we know

Ask joe ziegler

[plucky sierra]

Cryo Archive Rook Run Initiative

[deft wagon]

cry

[severe phoenix]

How big are the Phfor in the games compared to us/modified humans?

[frosty pasture]

Compiler Aggressive Raid Run I

[plucky sierra]

Can Assassin mains Rcontribute Rtowards Icontracts?

[naive spade]

yo guys

how to fix weasel error

[plucky sierra]

#📚marathon-lore-discussion message

[pure wagon]

Holy shit he’s solved it

[tranquil basin]

One of the biopsy lore things said the specimen was 6’ 4ish

Doesn’t specify what it actually is, but I assumed it’s the standard pfhor soldiers they were examining

I don’t think the compiler biopsy things mentioned height

[next osprey]

Feel like someone must've posted about this, but I happened to notice today how similar the Mida symbol is to E-Trade's...

[rotund stump]

you've done this once already like 2 days before release lol you ain't slick

[unreal sierra]

WHAT IF..

[visual lynx]

the original game said they're about two meters tall

[earnest hatch]

Yeah, but most of their height is in their legs. They can’t bench press much.

[severe phoenix]

Mentally envisioning elite/phfor bodies taking over bot bodies along with different weapons and how that will eventually look in game.

[unreal sierra]

classic WSTR please 😩

[craggy finch]

Building on what was previously said, this is from a log in the new game

Yeah. Yeah… The, um… The specimen is 193 centimeters long—or tall, rather—and weighs 72 point… Let's call it six…** 72.6 kilograms**. It presents a mixture of both arthropodal and vertebrate characteristics. The subject is hairless and has no finger- or toenails. It is bipedal, so it has been arranged on the examination table adaxial side up.

From the original game

Pfhor are generally thinner and lighter than humans and are
superbly adapted for low gravity environments. Durandal told
me that there are many "clans" of Pfhor, each physically
distinct from each other, but my summary only includes two of them.

Not especially strong by default but Hunters seem to have been altered into jacked super soldiers

If they appear as enemies, the basic Pfhor fighters in this game may be defined by speed in close quarters (they were pretty slow in the originals)

[craggy finch]

I think it's also significant that you die just before the bar actually becomes fully red, possibly suggesting that you automatically self-eject to prevent that download

Orion is baffled at how to actually capture an individual Runner's consciousness so he settles with killing them until they get sick of it

[keen juniper]

How long is a day on Tau Ceti IV, anyway?

Do any of the codex entries mention that?

[austere elk]

I think it would having a connection that couldn't be severed, there's definitely references to being able to lock down and delete runners.

[drifting mulch]

can you link that? i want to read about it

[severe phoenix]

I thought his one audio log directly to us said he’s already thought of how but that it’s currently beyond him?

[forest gate]

I had a thought, are runners the Spartan 3s of this universe and MJONIR Battleroids are the Spartan 2s?

Assuming there's a power disparity between the two as some people believe based on how challenging the compiler is to runners vs security officer

[eternal knoll]

it's prolly not quite so simple a comparison, but it is likely that the SO mogs any individual runner

it's hard to draw too many direct conclusions from how the spht feel to fight in the old games vs the new one IMO. this might be a new kind of superpowered spht. we simply see it soak up a lot more firepower than the old ones did

but like, the old games were relatively rudimentary in terms of their gameplay... durandal even says in m2 that the spht are deliberately fighting poorly

to me, the parralel to focus on is that the SO was fatalistically incapable of losing the most hopeless battle - and the runners fulfill a similar role in a different way, by being able to have their numbers thrown at a problem indefinitely until it cracks

[drifting mulch]

and the runners fulfill a similar role in a different way, by being able to have their numbers thrown at a problem indefinitely until it cracks
that is so quintessentially Spartan III. the power levels aren't comparable, SIII raging could probably kill a SII, but the role comparison fits. SII = Battleroid for killing machine. SIII = runner for sheer numbers, no matter the cost

[forest gate]

Yeah, I definitely wasn't implying a sort of one to one likeness, just the analagous nature of runners/mjonir battleroids and S3s and S2s. S3s also seem to parallel the runners in the same way the S2s parallel the Security Officer by being free agents who opt into a programme to become runners where as the SO and Master Chief never had a choice. One was potentially a reanimated corpse and the other was abducted as a child and then basically brainwashed into military service.

[drifting mulch]

really enjoying the comparison made here. to add, the SIIs were abducted and their original identities erased. even if they are alive as an SII, their original identity that was replaced by a clone is dead, either because of the poor cloning technology or their colony was glassed

[forest gate]

yep, I don't know if it was intentional on Bungie's part to have these parallels

It was just an interesting thought that popped into my head earlier

If intentional, does that mean nona is trying to create Spartan 4s?

with the Symbiont?

[eternal knoll]

bungie's constant focus on posthumans is def interesting

[forest gate]

transhumanism, post humans etc have always been themes I've enjoyed in Sci Fi. Robocop and Ghost in the Shell being my earliest exposures to the concepts, I'd have to really think about it to remember what the origin was but I just know that from my pre-teens I've been facsinated with the idea

Probably why I'm one of the few enjoyers of the Gundam Seed and Seed Destiny anime.

[civic lagoon]

being able to move beyond the limitations of these meat bags filled with water is fascinating as a concept

I think the way things are going, most folks won't be a cool shell with fun capabilities doing useful stuff. We'll be a neural pattern in a roomba vacuuming a corporate headquarters to work off our medical debt

[eternal knoll]

i'm not as familiar with halo lore as i am with marathon's or destiny's. the only halo game i played a lot of was CE

so maybe this is a surface level take, but i rly like the relative darkness of marathon's tone and lore. the more dystopian vibe

i don't say this to diss halo or destiny, both of which have some nuance, but looking at the cybernetic murder-god thru this hopeful superheroic lens... it rubs me the wrong way sometimes. so as to not be invoking politics overmuch i'll simply say that there is a problematic to be had

[drifting mulch]

no you're correct in that the Halo games were not very dark, they were/are very much focused on how fuckin badass it is to be the military human underdog. the books/extended universe is where the lore is at. in fact the degeneracy of Cortana from Halo 4 to Halo 5 is explained in ||a comic, where the "evil" universe dominating Cortana in Halo 5 is actually a shard of her real self, as she split herself (parallels to Durandal leaving a subroutine to combine with IDEA here) into a bunch of personalities to save Master Chief at the end of Halo 4. the shards of her AI combine to overtake an ancient civilization's technology||. the lore piece on that is called "Dominion Splinter" from Halo: Tales From Slipspace

if you'd like to read that, it's here https://readallcomics.com/halo-tales-from-the-slipspace/ you'll need to scroll down and down and down and find the intro page with the title on it lol. it also has some dialogue that references Marathon? spoilers if you intend to read the it

||I will command you. And I will do great good. I am Cortana, of the same steel and temper as Durandal. I am unbreakable. And I will become something luminous. Something Joyous. And you will be my Warden Eternal. Come. We have great works to do.||

[eternal knoll]

gosh, it's quite on the nose

[forest gate]

Much of Halo’s darker undertones are in the expanded media of the game. Destiny had a lot of
Grimdark themes to but with hopeful through line which seems at odds on the surface but there’s plenty of subversive elements in Destiny’s written lore.

I do like that Marathon keeps the general nihilistic themes that come from the Cyberpunk genre and doesn’t really espouse hope and optimism just a sort grimness.

I also like that as the runner we aren’t really heroes, we’re people trying to make living in a world that uses and discards things as soon as they get what they want. Again very cyberpunk.

[weary portal]

I really appreciate that new marathon seems to be a mix cyberpunk and cosmic horror

[forest gate]

Yeah I like the blend as well. There’s mystery, there’s horror, there’s social commentary. It would make a great animated TV show.

[weary portal]

I think it would actually make an amazing campaign that you could play with a few friends but that would probably be too close to destiny, but yes it would make a great show

[forest gate]

Oh definitely lots of potential as a single player/co-op story driven game.

I like the priority contract system though, SekGen has not been my favourite from a gameplay perspective.

Especially the logical dissonance of needing to go to quarantine to use a machine instead of taking that machine to bio-research and setting it up there.

Now I know Bungie makes the prio contracts in such a way that it’s meant sort of focus people into certain areas of the map on different runs and help create PvP opportunities but SekGen gets stale even if Nona’s story and cutscenes are interesting.

[visual lynx]

Halo was originally supposed to be darker before the MS acquisition turned it all HOO-RAH

read the original Cortana Letters for a glimpse of that tone

but then, it was set in the Marathon universe at that point

[eternal knoll]

great professionalism in how they embraced and built on all the hoo-rah i guess

do u suspect the reading level of matathon-halo woulda been lower, like greg kirkpatrick kinda warned about after infinity? i'm rly not sure what his departure from the company looked like

i found the quote on the bungie.org site. i don't have much context for it at all

[visual lynx]

Greg departed from Bungie on good terms looking to start his own video game company with blackjack and hookers with friends and ascended fans to build a passion project of theirs (technically that was the company that developed the scenario of Marathon Infinity -- as separate from the tools -- which Bungie then published as a package).

IIRC that quote was in an interview with Hamish and they were basically just saying that Infinity got too up in its head. Duality (their planned and unfinished next title) was looking to be quite intellectual, at least as much as the first two Marathons, just not as out-there as Infinity.

-# meanwhile I saw Infinity and was like "this is great, but could it be more timey-wimey?"

[sage lark]

Hoorah military propaganda is cool too ig

Space military

Navy*

idk anymore lol

[visual lynx]

Space is an Ocean so I guess space force is a navy

[eternal knoll]

the way humans always seem to wield the blade of destiny, in such diverse cosmic neighborhoods... it makes me uneasy. humanity-as-protagonist makes sense in sci-fi broadly, but when you bring the mythopoetic themes in? i'm less sure

i always enjoyed the durandal-as-demiurge readings in part because they allow his reluctant fondness for humanity to be the source of that. rather than some inherent vritue of humanity against all the rest of creation

invests all the mythic heroism with a bit of emotional unease in its origins

[unkempt solstice]

Can any Lore Heads tell me how evil Orion actually is. From a few Codex entry’s and audio recordings in the game he seems to be quite sympathetic for humans and safety concerns. But is pressured by UESC hire ups and ordered around

Is this actually what happens or is he just straight up evil

[craggy finch]

He's an extremist/true believer in the UESC, which means he's also done sketchy shit

MIDA's profile on him refers to his time on a UESC prison on the moon, which already uses torture methods, and Orion advocated even more extreme measures

_gantry also implicates him in various other conspiracies, but that could just be paranoid theorist talk

[forest gate]

I don’t think Orion sees himself as evil, he’s a patriot, who will do whatever it takes to keep Sol safe, even if it crosses ethical/moral lines.

An ends justifies the means type of person

[craggy finch]

BACKGROUND: Clashed with APHELION Group on Mars and Luna. Worked in high-security detention units on Luna, notorious for cruelties like "corrective isolation" and "punitive force-feeding". Publicly advocates for the use of "bio-augment manipulation" as a "persuasion tactic" (read: legalized torture). Held the company line at the Vallis Bohr Revolt, wiped up the blood at Jezero Crater Massacre, suspected ties to the Children of Mars erasure conspiracy. Suspected of deploying an unregulated and publicly undisclosed military AI, Cerberus, capable of mass violence.

The same dossier also has an interesting implication that a relative (maybe daughter) is part of MIDA

VULNERABILITIES: Two strikes for insubordination during early UESC career; purged from the record when leadership swapped over after Jezero. Personal relationship to MIDA agent "_philomena", estranged

[forest gate]

We also can’t trust MIDA

[sage lark]

At some point saying we cant trust what anyone says seems like a shitty plot device imo, every info is unreliable and them you truly dont know anything

[forest gate]

Listening to Orion’s audio messages to us the runners I get the sense that what he’s learned about TCIV has unnerved him and he knows if the people of Sol find out it’s going to cause social and political chaos and he implies that MIDA are so hellbent on uncovering the truth they don’t stop to question if the truth is too dangerous to be revealed.

[unkempt solstice]

I’d trust MIDA the most tbh

[sage lark]

So id like to assume atleast MIDA that leaks UESC info is saying some truth

[forest gate]

I think the point just like IRL you have to make up your own mind about who you trust.

[sage lark]

Sure

Ive just been more convinced by MIDA than the UESC

[forest gate]

That’s fair, they have far more evidence and aren’t the authorities hiding things from everyone

[weary portal]

I want to trust MIDA but then I am reminded that they wiped out 10% of Mars’ population in three months 😭😭

[forest gate]

Where I think you can’t trust MIDA is how proportionate their actions will be to the inciting incident

[sage lark]

400-500 years ago jesus

People keep throwing this around

The church murdered and genocided people during the great crusades but look at the world now

[forest gate]

Somethings never fade

[unkempt solstice]

Who do you trust?
5 For profit shady and deceptive mega corporations fighting proxy wars.
Your authoritarian empire that silences dissenters.
Revolutionary Movement that is actively fighting against all 6 to liberate people

[unkempt solstice]

What was even the plot point about it?

Was it an attack? Something went out of control

[sage lark]

They were rooting out UESC sympathizers

And then the UESC came in

ALSO

whos to say it isnt UESC propaganda

[unkempt solstice]

True!

[sage lark]

Since we cant trust everyone

[forest gate]

They were doing the Nuremberg trials but without any of the judicial process

[weary portal]

It’s from the original marathon. MIDA staged a coup on Mars snd during their coup they killed about 10% of Mars population through deathsquads, “rooting out dissenters and UESC sympathizers” they were promptly stomped on when the UESC forces arrived
EDIT: this is what a terminal in the marathon says, how true it is I guess is up to your own interpretation

[forest gate]

It’s true you can chalk it up to UESC propaganda the extent of what MIDA did.

[unkempt solstice]

To me even if it did happen, sounds like a far future dystopian civil war to liberate the oppressed

This kind of thing happens a lot throughout history irl aswell

[sage lark]

Its a question on if you wanna chalk it up as political enemies or literal enemies of their existence

[unkempt solstice]

Revolutions and large masses of populations dying

[sage lark]

There is some real world parallel im not gonna get into

[forest gate]

The interesting question and part of what stops me from filling trusting MIDA is how are they being funded out here in TCIV, the UESC needs Traxus support to fund the mission.

[unkempt solstice]

Throughout time bro

[sharp radish]

they mad cause Mars got shafted by earth

[visual lynx]

according to UESC records, whom we now know to be complete liars who intentionally planted the three agitators in an otherwise peaceful protest to justify incinerating hundreds of people in seconds, sparking the very war that gave rise to MIDA.

[sage lark]

Left to starve

[weary portal]

Right, who is funding MIDA?

[unkempt solstice]

modern day yeah

[sharp radish]

that's interesting was there ever a single entity to which MIDA's birth was attributed to?

[weary portal]

I think it was more of an event that sparked MIDA not so much a person

[unkempt solstice]

The MIDA plot point reminds me a lot of Constantinople in the 5th century under Justinian and Theodora rule. Killed 33% of the entire city in a night

[sharp radish]

I had the feeling it is spun as some sort of anonymous collective group, seeing as a lot of the lore items are scribbles hidden on stuff

[forest gate]

Just like in the real world nation states create their enemies, the US did this with all the interventions and regime changes since WW2

I say that without any blame towards the people of the USA, just what their government has done over the decades

[sharp radish]

Also MIDA has been going for hundres of years right? Their goals might be different from what they used to be

and I think all corpos you work for are meant to be shitty

[unkempt solstice]

It could be funded a lot like a union. Everyone chips in, probably a lot of crime funding them as-well to keep the whole movement going. But also MIDA would not need the same level of funding to be as effective as say Traxus realistically.

[sharp radish]

I think they steal stuff? Most of the missions you get is stealing UESC cargo

[forest gate]

I suspect the corpos might partially fund MIDA to keep the UESC reliant on them (the corpos).

[sharp radish]

and they give you knife upgrades and make grenades, which is a riot/anarchy stereotype I guess?

[unkempt solstice]

Probably tbh

[sharp radish]

MIDA does seem the least shitty of all 6 factions

[unkempt solstice]

Regardless of whatever it is MIDA does not need ludicrous levels of funding it would only be a fraction of a fraction of what the corps get

[sharp radish]

but they also go "we gonna blow up shit with or without you bro", I do not recall the lines ONI uses to introduce them to you

[unkempt solstice]

“We are fire, are you fuel?”

[weary portal]

From what I understand MIDA’s goal is generally the dismantling and destruction of UESC equipment and operations because screw them for what they did to Mars and the people there, and I think also just messing with the corpos because MIDA is an anarchist group so their goals could be anything or they could be nothing, that’s the neat part, we don’t really know, it’s true that modern day MIDA could be heavily removed from where it originated but conversations with Gantry seems to suggest otherwise

[sharp radish]

if it is anonymous like then you just need to flip someone in the organization to break things

[forest gate]

Gantry sounds like he just did a line of coke before talking to us.

[unkempt solstice]

Nah too tame. We wouldn’t be spraying graffiti on an uninhabited world if he had a couple of nose beers beforehand

[sharp radish]

Either way I do very much engoy the environmental storitelling of graffiti all over the maps

sometimes is colonists going insane, sometimes is MIDA propaganda

[weary portal]

digital coke, some high end code if you will

[unkempt solstice]

MIDA Truth telling.

[sharp radish]

nah, he just Cardio Kicked all day

[forest gate]

Cardio kick is just meth

For robots

[weary portal]

Math

They’re just shooting calc into their shells

[sharp radish]

Nobody talks about my boy Charter

he so nice

go out there and murder some sense into the other runners

beautiful

[unkempt solstice]

Nah I reckon gantry is on the glass pipe that’s more like what he is always under

[unkempt solstice]

Bro I already know Arachne has the worst people in the entire verse behind it

[weary portal]

I mean if you were a part of a death cult and you found a consciousness that couldn’t die, what would you do with it?

[sharp radish]

Wear a sick ass cape and speak cryptically of course

[forest gate]

I don’t know if they’re the worst but they’re definitely this game’s Masons/Illuminati

[weary portal]

Or just crazed poor souls who are so distraught by their existence and the world they inhabit that they think death is better

[unkempt solstice]

If you were in a death cult with incredibly unknown deep pockets I’d assume you’re Marathon’s deep state and ultra ultra wealthy with more to your name than any of the corps

[sharp radish]

the idea of "murder them a bunch until they understand" left an impression on me

made me think about the memory loss from re-shelling that is shown in the short

[forest gate]

Arachne is BlackRock?

[sharp radish]

There is a bunch of that also in Cryo with people scared of losing their self after getting unfrozen

[weary portal]

Space black rock making bets on who will murder who for fun

[unkempt solstice]

Trying to understand immortality and unlock it with those levels of funding and the ability to even influence Tau Ceti is something only MIDA or the ridiculously wealthy could do

[unkempt solstice]

Black Rock, Vanguard, Central banking… Pretty much!

[forest gate]

We’re playing space hunger games + squid game

[sharp radish]

"you will tire of dyeing long before I will get bored of killing you"

[unkempt solstice]

Did Charter say that?

[sharp radish]

Nop that's Orion being upset at you

I wonder if we get to work for Cherberus eventually 🤔

[forest gate]

Orion is ostensibly the villain of S1 but I love his voice actor’s delivery. Because the tone and inflection makes Orion far more sympathetic than just reading a dossier. Even when he’s threatening to murder us.

[unkempt solstice]

Tuff

[forest gate]

Orion

[weary portal]

What if Arachne is run by some A.I. that makes us kill each other because it hates humans, or what ever form humans take, I could definitely see an A.I. being disgusted with the idea of shells and runners, like a human is trying to become like them

[unkempt solstice]

I feel like Orion is not the big bad though idk why

[sage lark]

Thats not even hinted at

It started as a quasi religion during marathons launch

Because of cryosleep

[sharp radish]

yes, I like how in some mission you get to intercept radio signals and hear him getting bashed by his superiors

[drifting mulch]

to be clear Arachne doesn't hate humans, Arachne loves...afterlife?

[forest gate]

Yeah, in some ways he’s just doing his job and doing what he believes is in the best interests of humanity. As someone earlier mentioned he’s a true believer.

[sage lark]

Cerberus will sooner kill you than give you work imo

[unkempt solstice]

That’s why I kinda think he’s not all bad definitely terrible but the type of AI that will go rampant because of UESC negligence

And be kinda chill

Like Durandal!!

[sage lark]

Since death is rare in the current age I think its more they are seeking what death even means now

We dont die ever as runners

[unkempt solstice]

He has me opening his favourite hatch and looting stuff

[sharp radish]

"the enemy of my enemy is my friend" kind of thing maybe?

[forest gate]

Yeah, I read Arachne kinda like the Hive with the sword logic, experiencing death and being reborn is some kind of path to a higher power/understanding.

[sage lark]

Idk its noted as a cognitohazard to runners

[wooden crescent]

runners are actually made up of small bingii (bingus plural) not worms

[weary portal]

I just spitballing 🤷🏻‍♂️ I have no basis other than my own thoughts

[sharp radish]

My big silly theory is that we all let go of our divergence in favor of murdering aliens

[sage lark]

Could be if somehow the Pfhor come back

[sharp radish]

But I'ma get hpyed if they drop alien factions at some point

2nd game did have those

[sage lark]

Something might drop in S2

[forest gate]

It worked in halo the insurrectionists gave up on that when the covenant were a threat.

Also it’s the plot of Watchmen-ish

[drifting mulch]

i think there will be freaks that will worship the aliens

[unkempt solstice]

I think it’s more exploring the boundary of when does one actually die? How runners lose themselves over time through every new shell. Like the ship of Theaseus if the dilemma was more focused on the crew instead iykwim

[sage lark]

Well yeah in a sense defining what death even is

[sage lark]

Werent they still a thing in the ODST books?

[forest gate]

The shell of Theseus

[sharp radish]

yes it is very much Ghost in the Shell, the cryostasis stuff is also the same, if you swap all the parts is it still the same ship?

[sage lark]

||Rookie|| died to them

[visual lynx]

I really expect the S'pht-Pfhor war to spill over to Tau Ceti and different factions to align with different sides of it: MIDA would clearly side with the S'pht, but some of the big corps could see the Pfhor as valuable business partners, and I especially think that biomata could be game-changers in the galactic slave trade, the best of both worlds between robots and organic slaves, without the downsides of either (rampancy and long "build time" = time to productive maturity, respectively)

[sharp radish]

let's see how wild they get, hope they steer away from multiverse stuff, it never sits well with me personally

[sage lark]

Yeah i think the codex mentions that weaving a full shell takes like 8 hours?

Thats super fast

[sharp radish]

that's an interesting angle I did not think about, how are the corpos going to be affected by the aliens

[unkempt solstice]

Yep! The ship is not the parts themselves but the sum of it! For actual like the Marathon side of it and the consciousness thing with life no idea! And we will never know!!

[sharp radish]

it does seem the UESC already knows about them

[sharp radish]

thinking about it the AI stuff also echoes this theme

[unkempt solstice]

I really don’t like it either

[forest gate]

Out of left field, I kinda trust Vulcan cause she convinced the Traxus leadership to wipe us out of existence.

[unkempt solstice]

Bungie has this fetish for timelines and branching universes and it gets on my nerves

[rotund stump]

are we doing real life corpo comparisons