📚marathon-lore-discussion

[hallow vector]

i heard it in gianni matrigrano's voice, i must admit

[robust vale]

also something hilartious happened to me yesterday

I load into an outpost run and ONI goes

"Analyzing past run data. You cannot win."

[hallow vector]

thanks for the vote of confidence oni

[robust vale]

I did die like 5 minutes in but there were a lot of people at dorms it is what it is

[hallow vector]

"Listen man. We're gonna be okay. You're important to me."

[night tendon]

I’ve heard you cannot lose but never that

[robust vale]

It wasn't like, insulting, it was more like

"You cannot win this fight. You'll be here forever"

but also wow cmon oni I'm throwing loadouts worth 2k at max into outpost I'm not expecting to walk out with purples

[median hemlock]

that post was the tipping point and my username in my friendgroup server is now "#1 durandal transfem theorist"

[night tendon]

Naked conveyance rush or don’t play outpost 🤣 that’s the way to do it

[hallow vector]

i like him a lot, i refuse to believe the narrative that he is the product of kinda shitty college kids, i believe the writer must have tapped into some platonic ideal of charming jerk ai

it's been great talking chatroom but i'm tired and stupid, see you later

[lunar cove]

Oni gets increasingly unstable as you level up iirc

[robust vale]

I know it's just funny

[median hemlock]

huh, didn't know that

interesting

[austere elk]

I don't know if it's levelling up

I think it's strings of extractions

Assert: you are blade and teeth. You cut flesh.

[fresh viper]

if im understanding the lore correctly, we arent talking to the same Durandal from Marathon 2 onwards, moreso a fragment of him trapped on the ship?

[austere elk]

Maybe™

[proud lion]

no maybe. probably not.

[plucky sierra]

Yes it’s a different Durandal

[proud lion]

you really shut the door on that idea, huh?

[visual lynx]

that has been my assumption

no actually it’s just in orbit around a collapsed stellar remnant that therefore shines no light and gives no life

[fresh viper]

reading the Ulysses Pike logs and its so interesting that Durandal seemed to create some form of a relation ship with Ulysses I, II AND III (even at age 6)

[earnest hatch]

It is an interesting look into how a near immortal, but relatively powerless AI would relate to short lived humans.

[fresh viper]

even to us, he seems to see something familiar in Runners as corpo slaves

some of the lore is amazing, hearing Gabriel "decontaminate" a room as someone is banging to escape is genuinely next level dark.

[dreamy hawk]

My incorrect recollection is more metal but fine I guess.

[dreamy hawk]

https://codex.cyberacme.systems/entry/class-b-anomalous-materials/uesc-interrogation-alva-t

I have a theory as to whom was doing the banging.

[dreamy hawk]

I may no longer be parroting original ideas.

[fresh viper]

i genuinely LOVE how dark some of the lore is lol

[azure sail]

Bro somebody send help getting my nuts stomped in with randoms.

[dreamy hawk]

I see you’ve read the Pike logs. Can I interest you in some emotional support plushies?

[earnest hatch]

That’s why I play solos mostly.

[azure sail]

I need a squad to run with

[leaden storm]

mic up and run random fill until you find other people with mics, that's how I've done my best runs recently

[fresh viper]

still need to get those lol

[leaden storm]

be generally friendly & willing to communicate with your team and you'll find people willing to squad up in no time

[dreamy hawk]

Well if you want to ruin your evening: https://codex.cyberacme.systems/entry/emotional-support-plushie?search=Emotional

[dreamy hawk]

This is my solution, too. I run random fill until I find a team or a person who I enjoy teaming up with and then we go from there.

[burnt willow]

how can they make anomaly tech but not food for themselves smh lol

[dreamy hawk]

Admittedly, in their defense, their food did seem to be actively trying to kill them.

[burnt willow]

oh the drinkable cheesrbuger with claw marks inside?

[dreamy hawk]

Ha! No I meant what was happening with crops. But those also were technically poison after thirty days.

[burnt willow]

what happened with the criops>?

[dreamy hawk]

ADDENDUM ON DIETARY VARIETY: Although NuCaloric 187 may be used as a sole caloric and nutritional source, this duration should not exceed 30 total days based on Nutrient Psychosis Study XSR.191.[1] A lack of textural variety leads to psychological deterioration despite NuCaloric 187's exacting nutrient profile.

[remote magnet]

Evil Fungus ate them when no one was looking

[dreamy hawk]

`[CSNG]: This is Dr. Song, dying far from home.

[CSNG]: I did it. I saw you. Named you. Dragged you into the light.

[CSNG]: Telomyces mosaica. That's a fitting name for an endlessly mutating killer.

[spores hiss]

[CSNG]: And you're part of something bigger than yourself, aren't you? You waited in the soil for us to sow our seeds, the ones we brought with us. You infected our crops, and then you infected our people.

[CSNG]: And this planet… Something here protected you from us, the way our AI should have protected us from you. It corrupted Darius. Sabotaged our every attempt to understand what was happening or how to stop it.

[CSNG]: You know, you can colonize my blood and liquify my bones, but—but I figured you out.

[CSNG]: Still not sure what's helping you. What made you into a weapon. Guess I'll never know.

[CSNG]: I do know I got off easy. I get to grow here, part of this world that I never understood. I get to dream.

[CSNG]: What awaits the others is an ancient nightmare. Cold. Lonely.

[CSNG]: An endless… perishing… cycle.
`

[burnt willow]

how do u get this tab? mission or item

[dreamy hawk]

@plucky sierra what do we think the ”ancient nightmare,” is? I know my theory. 😂

[dreamy hawk]

I think these are entires from the NuCal contracts iirc.

[dreamy hawk]

Oh no I lied. Exfil with drinkable cheeseburgers, actually. 99% sure.

[remote magnet]

No, its what you get for NuCals final priority mission

Or rather, the first one in the final set of priority missions

[burnt nebula]

Finished all story contracts... inhales YEAHHHH

mostly solo too

all these baby gamers saying the games too hard lol

i did most missions first try, solo

the last bunch of sekiguchi contracts, all solo, all first try

[remote magnet]

Yeah, Priority missions are honestly easyer solo

[burnt nebula]

the last mission i barely made it out, 11 bullets left and half a health bar, no meds, but we did it gamers!

[earnest hatch]

With all do respect, my good sir. I do not for a second believe you completed all those sekiguchi quests on your first try solo.

[burnt nebula]

sorry but i absolutely did

[earnest hatch]

Beginning your pardon? Of course.

[dreamy hawk]

Wanna run me through now?

[burnt nebula]

i mean, i was crapping my pants the entire time but i did it

[dreamy hawk]

Solo is the only way as far as I’m concerned.

[burnt nebula]

man team games are a whole different beast though

solo is the way to do it

[remote magnet]

Only reason i didnt get Co evolution 3/5 is that there were no runners left on the map when i had to kill one as the last step. 12 minutes left. No more exfills. When i exfilled with 1 minute left, i spectate no one. There where genuinely no more runners left on the map with 12 minutes remaining

[burnt nebula]

you sure about that mission? i think thats the one were you inject a sample on outpost and kill 18 bots

like i just did it so...

[remote magnet]

I meant eh one where you have to kill a runner. Thought it was 3, might be another one

[earnest hatch]

Same. But I just don’t buy the first try part. No offense to anyone.

[dreamy hawk]

I choose to be offended.

[burnt nebula]

i think that was a bit earlier. for that one its best if you go as fast as possible and just wait in quarantine for another runner to come

a lot of tasks end up in quarantine so just wait for someone to come along

[remote magnet]

I mean, the one with the cardio kit,and with the anit virus pack, i did them first try as well. Once i brought a cardio kick in of course, i wasnt high enough with mida to just buy them

[burnt nebula]

a lot of missions i didnt do first try, but at this point im running pretty good gear and not afraid to lose it so i was going in stacked

and being extra sneaky. avoid other people at all costs

[remote magnet]

Beeing extra sneaky doesnt mesh well with gooing fast

[burnt nebula]

even waiting a lil bit, not rushing at all, barely made it to the last exfil on that last mission there

[burnt nebula]

go fast for the mission where you need to kill a runner, so that you're at quarantine waiting for other runners to get there, they will come, lots of tasks in there

[formal mortar]

ABSOLUTE L E G E N D

[remote magnet]

I mean, im done with SekGens contracts. I found a poor panicking Vandall trying to unlock Traxus at intersection

[formal mortar]

Thats the magic secret!!

[burnt nebula]

next season im gonna eat those words and keep dying over and over and over again lol

[formal mortar]

Lmaooooo jinxing urself?

[burnt nebula]

if its anything like tarkov, people adapt, figure out little sneaky tricks i once used and now i have to compete with those people

this time i think i got through it all just due to the game being new and people still figuring it out

[formal mortar]

So true. Im almost done with all of the middle contracts, just gotta do RUN/HIDE 6. Almost done with NuCal, Traxus I havent started Unsanctioned yet, and I have two more Seki contracts

[dreamy hawk]

I cannot believe how effective circling the outside of the map remains to avoid people. I can count on one hand in all of my runs the number of times it has burnt me.

[formal mortar]

And tbh I am dreading CoEvolution 5 the way a vegan dreads a steakhouse

[formal mortar]

Outpost especially. Everybody has such a fixation on Pinwheel that they forget that the rest of the map lowkey has excellent loot

[burnt nebula]

same i was just staring at the "prepare" button even though i had enough gear and money to fail it 50 times lol

took me a while to finally jump in

[formal mortar]

And tbh it doesnt sound too bad. Its a lockdown with extra steps. CoEvo4? Omfg that one is why im doing all of the other contracts

[burnt nebula]

its just a longer version of a bunch of missions you already did tbh

[remote magnet]

I just lootet a purple key room on outpost. Waitet for Someone to unlock pinwheel, waitet till the last 7 miniutes, activatet guarded exfil in the heat rain, still got jumped and killed by a thief

[burnt nebula]

and like, i know everyone hates assassin but assassin is the shell for solo tasking

when you gotta fight bots and you need to heal, no cover anywhere, your smoke/invis is essential so you can heal and reload in a pickle

[formal mortar]

Sounds about right for Outpost. Thieves are like mosquitoes man they getcha when ur not paying attention

[formal mortar]

It really is, its almost nonsensical to do much else

[remote magnet]

I dont hate assassins, many of them leave you alone if you return the favor. Know who NEVER leaves you alone? Thieves.

Reminds me, first week. Walk through dire march, near the anomalie. See movement to my left. Assassin with broken shields cowering next to a tree, staring at me. I stare back. Continue walking. No word spoken. No shot fired. Comedic

[burnt nebula]

thieves are a problem even on my own team, them mfs be hoovering up all the good loot

i open a crate and theyre right there behind me snatching things from under my nose

[dreamy hawk]

Come play with this triage. I’ll show you a loot gremlin that makes thieves envious.

[burnt nebula]

kinda disappointed there isnt a skin or an emblem or anything to say "i did all the story missions"

[remote magnet]

Its not that all thieves are selfish sweats, but all selfish sweats are thieves

[burnt nebula]

true lol

[loud current]

thief is highkey a baddie tho

[remote magnet]

ay

[earnest hatch]

So I have a couple theories about Unknown Reveries. It’s kind of long so I was waiting for a quiet moment to post it. Hopefully that’s now.

[undone pelican]

so do we kno what happened to the Tau Ceti colonists yet? why did they get spaghetti-fied?

[forest gate]

Vegan and a steakhouse works as a relapse analogy.

[forest gate]

GenZ slang in my marathon, for shame!

[loud current]

my sincerest apologies dignified elder

[remote magnet]

Well, there was a foodshortage due to the sentient evil fungus infecting all foodsupplies, there was an alien invasion (og Marathon), there was an weird plague (most likely the evil fungus again), there were mass halucinations due to the anomalie, the wildlife turned increasingly hostile...
pick your poison

[forest gate]

I’m merely an elder millennial

[loud current]

according to nucal those things might be linked

[remote magnet]

Oh, and the support AIs where all compromised by whatever coordinatet all of that

[burnt nebula]

if the game wants to have a long lifespan it's never gonna tell you, unravelling the mystery is the carrot on the stick

[earnest hatch]

So Unknown Reveries:
https://codex.cyberacme.systems/entry/unknown-reveries

I know some folks think this is Durandal talking or thinking. I still don’t think that it’s a dialogue between Durandal and the Compiler. But after a reread I’m going back to my initial theory that it’s a conversation between two S’pht.

Three Carots is the one who remained (>>>), Two Carots (>>) is the one who went exploring and is now alone.

The key thing for me is that they talk to each other as equals, as though they are both the same type of thing. They also speak individually; Three Carots never speaks on behalf of all S’pht “we”, he only speaks personally as though it had a personal relationship as an equal with Two Carots.

Here is some things Three Carots says:

Observation was our edict. The sole directive of our central programming:
…
I begged you not to go. So long ago, I begged.

This does not sound like an individual alien speaking to a godlike AI. It sounds like someone talking to what was once a personal friend.

Similarly Two Carots says:

I wonder if you think of me. Has it been seconds or eternity since our clusters linked?

This doesn’t seem like something Durandal would wonder about if he were Two Carots. Also “our clusters linked” implies that both individuals have the same bodies/minds in some way.

And this from Three Carots:

I fear you are never coming back. I fear, in your absence, I will never be the same.

[dreamy hawk]

Even as a younger millennial it confuses and upsets me. 👴

[earnest hatch]

If Three Carots was speaking on behalf of the S’pht it would say “we will never be the same” wouldn’t it. But the consequences of Two Carot’s absence is only affecting Three Carots. If Two Carots was Durandal the consequences of his absence would be much bigger, wouldn’t it.

Three Carots also says:

We are both too selfish for such grand gestures.

Again it is talking as if they’re both equals. Would a single S’pht compiler really compare it’s own selfishness on equal footing to that of a godlike AI? It doesn’t fit in my opinion.

Two Carots says this:

I no longer recall how many times I have regurgitated unto myself—data eating data until every bit is ground into wholly new informational values.
…
I am hungry for more than my own flesh.

Which matches what the S’pht say about themselves in the Compiler trace:

we scrape knowledge as nourishment
…
we, the devourers of thought and reason

To me this means that Two Carots is a Compiler, not Durandal, having to devour its own knowledge and thoughts to survive.

Three Carots also says this:

.000012 nanoseconds since I subsumed your cradle into my network.

Could a Compiler really subsume something of Durandal’s into itself? Would their code even be compatible in that way? I don’t think so. I think this line means that both of them have to be made of the same “stuff”.

So I think the conversation is between two S’pht. And I’m pretty confident about that and I’ll defend it until something more clear is revealed in the lore.

[formal mortar]

NO THE HELL THEY DO NOT, THIEVES WILL BADGER YOU LIKE A DAMN GNAT FOR A WHOLE MARCH

[forest gate]

Maybe they went the Final Fantasy- the spirits within route and became spooky ghosts but they’ve been absorbed by the equivalent of TCIV’s Gaia.

[remote magnet]

Thieves also never talk, even if you say GG

[loud current]

as smb who plays assasin sometimes i will NOT leave you alone

[formal mortar]

EXACTLY! Although, I do find it funny that the Thief VA sounds like Gal Gadot

[earnest hatch]

This next part is just rampant speculation and I won’t defend it much. Right now I’m going to postulate that Unknown Reveries is between the boss Compiler the unhoused Spht looking thing inside the green box during the boss fight.

Currently my theory is this: Three Carots is the Spht inside the box. Two Carots is the boss we fight.

Three Carots says this:

Unto which hollow have you transgressed? Which of the endless planes called, so enticing

To me this sounds like Three Carots is saying that Two Carots actually traveled to another universe, one universe among “the endless planes”. We the players summon it back into this universe and Three Carots helps us defeat it out of anger.

[half stump]

tfw i wanna be in on the lore discussion but i don't want the bits of stuff i'm working for to be spoiled... 😔

[remote magnet]

Thats fine, if i see you first il shoot you too. But if i see that someone tries to run away from me, or avoid a confrontation, i usually let them go

[formal mortar]

No they do not. Meanwhile im an assassin that does not stfu. I always say thank you, and I type as fast as I can on my ps5

[dreamy hawk]

I hadn’t honestly considered this angle before. I’m going to have to reread them more before I can meaningfully comment beyond my priors.

[earnest hatch]

Well right when I post my theory everything explodes again. Oh well.

[forest gate]

GenZ slang at the very least humourous. Don’t even go on to Gen Alpha. It’s the late stage capitalism of brain rot.

[loud current]

i chase if im not doing a main contract

[earnest hatch]

Thank you for considering it!

[dreamy hawk]

Responses take time!

[loud current]

i rarely catch though

[dreamy hawk]

I forgot there’s a difference tbh. 💀

I need to take my dementia meds…

[earnest hatch]

Also for this part. This is the green thing I was talking about:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1210811652853731408/1490714505955774524/970938AE-0B8F-40FF-B962-B78241D8F8D4.jpg?ex=69d50f92&is=69d3be12&hm=6ff0446737f7450d14fde5d99a0771dbb6d43a2e832cc3fabec162318c5bac63&

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1210811652853731408/1490714521025777804/53850FC5-2FB7-4036-9CBB-FDABF8D3AB02.jpg?ex=69d50f95&is=69d3be15&hm=5d908f23915dbc04d9b8d6e29285b76c8cc3e3fbeda79b136a9b4b7bf8be2207&

[remote magnet]

I only actively hunt if i have a reason to. Like, a contract that requires me to down a runner, or i see that they have the other half of the coordinate datapad

[forest gate]

I play thief and I’m quite chatty granted though I started out as a Recon player but wasn’t feeling the kit. Hoping the updates to her kit will be fun and I can go back to that shell.

[remote magnet]

Congrats, you are the unicorn among thieves

[dreamy hawk]

Ohhhhh. Maybe there are/were two S’pht. 🤨

Imma go out for a walk but I plan on chewing on this later.

[forest gate]

6-7 and Skibidi toilet that was Gen Alpha, GenZ is the no cap, baddies (the millennial version was shawties), you are going through their <insert noun> arc. Bet.

[forest gate]

I use thief so I can speed up finding codex entries.

[forest gate]

What if the modern compiler is formed from the generic material of the colonists?

[remote magnet]

I play thief too, im not that serious. They are my second pick, after Destroyer, alongside Triage. Its just, i noticed that whenever i get ratet, or sniped, or camped its 90% thieves, and they are uncommonly rude for this game in my experience

[earnest hatch]

Originally I wondered if the boss Compiler was built from the remains of dead compilers. I hadn’t considered the colonists as a possibility!

[forest gate]

Destroyer is my least played shell. I just don’t vibe followed by vandal. The other 4 I play pretty equally.

[remote magnet]

I havent even touched Vandall.
Im a sole Titan in Destiny, so Destroyer comes naturall

[forest gate]

It popped into my head because I was thinking of mass effect recently and how all the husks in the game are basically the denizens of the milky way converted into thralls for the reapers.

[remote magnet]

And recon, i mean, i guess they are usefull if you are looking for PvP, prime is good for anouncing your position

[forest gate]

I’m a warlock main in destiny haha. But I do play titan, I do not vibe with hunter much.

[remote magnet]

But compilers are an alien race. In this case that would be like all the dead colonists beeing convertet into an Turian

[remote magnet]

Saaame

I play Assassin only when im SUPER carefull, like "purple room key" carefull

[sterile seal]

That patch next week can't come soon enough

I've had success ratting solo as Recon but it hurts having the only prime with a downside

[forest gate]

They are an alien race but they weren’t always bio-mechanical organisms.

[remote magnet]

I had a match recently where there were TAD-like pulses, but very subtle, hard to see. Anyone have any idea what that could have been?

[forest gate]

Yeah Assassin is my I want to avoid any trouble and I’m solo just want to get X thing done.

[sterile seal]

Maybe a prox sensor grenade?

[remote magnet]

I know these. it was wide range, like a tad, or a recons ult, but very pale and subtle in colour

[earnest hatch]

I like recon but the lack of move tech really hurts.

[sterile seal]

Higher heat cap would be nice

[remote magnet]

Is bouncy a trait ability?

[sterile seal]

Spider riding would be funny, you grab ahold of the drone with one hand and it lets you manually, slowly crawl on walls and ceilings and use your free hand to use a pistol or certain consumables

Basically a send-up of the xenomorph mobility mechanics from the old AvP games

[remote magnet]

Yes, hold on to that armed grenade, its yours

[sterile seal]

It explodes if you hold on top long or maybe it brings you to an enemy it detects lol

[dreamy hawk]

Nerds, friends -- can anyone ELI5 "declination" to me?

And an interpretation for what a "Great Declination" might be?

[burnt nebula]

finished off my story missions solo, feeling spicey, feeling strong... play 5 back to back team fills and get the most unbelievably clueless and trash free kitted team mates and lose a tonne of gear in no time. love it!

[dreamy hawk]

OK, so, the more I reread the more I come to a couple of conclusions.

1. I am confident that >> is NuDurandal, or DuranDEA.
2. I can only seem to make >>> make sense if I assume it is a S'pht, and I'm still inclined to think towards it speaking to OG Durandal.
3. The bit of >>> mentioning nanoseconds and the cradle makes me doubt 2, but I don't know what else >>> could be, to make the rest of it fit.

[sand narwhal]

The gear must flow. Wouldn’t want stale air mucking up a perfectly good vault.

[burnt nebula]

i dont even care that much about the gear, its the quality of the team mates, its just pointless to play

they split up, they die and disconnect, they refuse to push, they refuse to rez, they dont communicate, they dont listen to me, every mistake they can possibly make they will make it

[sand narwhal]

Random crew fill feels like shouting into the nearest bar and asking who wants a job. Your mileage may vary. The Runners you get may not necessarily be sober.

Do biomata even need to get drunk? Questions at 23:00.

[burnt nebula]

people say all the casuals are being pushed out of the game and only hardcore players want to play.. well where are they? all i get is brain dead casuals

2 level 100+ players, im like here we go finally some good team mates... nope, free kits, split up immediately

[dreamy hawk]

@earnest hatch and I’m not excluding it being two S’pht because I’m not that confident in my analysis and there may be some confirmation bias the more I reread, but I’m still inclined towards what I said.

[sand narwhal]

Your hardcore Runners would have made contacts and regular co-workers at this point. If there is some sort of morally ambiguous person bar in the background of TCIV.

[visual lynx]

etymologically, a "bending down"

a falling off, decay, descent, deterioration, deviation, decline

an act of turning down, refusing, declining

[burnt nebula]

wish they would ban free kits from playing teams, tell them "you should know how to select the rook shell by now bro"

like at least after level 50, no more free kits in teams

[visual lynx]

so the "great declination" I would expect to be either some large-scale worsening of something, or some large-scale refusal of something

maybe if Durandal-Thoth refused to join the free S'pht rebellion? he turned them down, declined their invitation, and that was a great (big) declination indeed.

oh or, I had misremembered that >>> spoke of the Great Declination, but it's actually >>, maybe he speaks of the downfall of the Marathon after the Pfhor attack?

[earnest hatch]

The Great Declination was responsible for the “voided space left barren”, so probably not as simpl as someone declining to do something.

[dreamy hawk]

His splitting or “deviation” from Durandal Prime?

I wish I could share my document; I lined things up real nice and it makes reading easier. 😫

[earnest hatch]

If Two Carots is Durandal, then how do you explain the two of them talking as equals. Sharing clusters, one (>>>) subsuming the cradle of the other (>>) into their own between, Durandal wondering wistfully if one specific S’pht thinks of him, and one (>>>) saying the other (>>) is equally selfish?

[visual lynx]

yeah that's what made me think maybe it's the general downfall of the Marathon

[visual lynx]

maybe >>> is not any particular compiler, but the Royalty of whatever clan that compiler is a part of; maybe it is S'bhuth?

[dreamy hawk]

Yeah the cradle bit is the part I have the most difficulty with. But in my defense I said as much. 😂

[earnest hatch]

That doesn’t track to me. In the grand scope of the universe, the partial failure of the marathon isn’t really a Great Declination.

[visual lynx]

and if the compiler/the spht generally are taking over the Marathon network, then subsuming Durandal's cradle into their network makes sense

[earnest hatch]

Still don’t see how a royal S’pht could answer most of those questions.

[earnest hatch]

I think it’s important to keep in mind that as far as we know there is only one Compiler still present on the Marathon.

[visual lynx]

but they are a hive mind, so that one may be connected to many

Durandal seemed to occupy a position of Royalty among his group of S'pht, so another S'pht Royalty, especially S'bhuth who Greg called a "failed Jjaro", seems like an entity at least on par with him

[earnest hatch]

So why is it speaking as one person? Iirc, they are a hive mind but sort of a loose one. And they’re not all connected across space.

They had no idea what the Sphtkr were up to.

[visual lynx]

I'm saying that maybe it is the central intelligence of a S'pht hive communicating with DuranDEA through one compiler of that hive present at Marathon

[earnest hatch]

That takes some big leaps in logic to come to that conclusion just for the purpose of justifying that one of them is Durandal.

It still would leave the other questions. In what way would Durandal and the S’pht share clusters? The entire S’pht hive mind is saying it is as selfish as Durandal for what reason?

[craggy finch]

They are connected but are still individuals, it’s like Half Life Vortigaunts

[visual lynx]

from the perspective of an entity that exists entirely within the Marathon network, yes

basically I think we can translate "since the great declination" as "since everything went to shit"

[earnest hatch]

There’s a simple explanation for all of it. The two characters are equals and the same type of being.

Occam’s razor

I think people are really eager for there to be this extra connection to the original series but we already had plenty of connections.

[visual lynx]

Durandal was once at the center of a S'pht hive, so they shared clusters at one point. He is an equivalent type of being to S'pht royalty, so they can be equal in ways such as selfishness.

[glacial juniper]

Just got the first prototype pet unlock from marsh, so sekiguchi genetics has been around for 300 years with some form of this biomata tech?

[earnest hatch]

This is really twisting things and making some big assumptions just to shoe horn Durandal into this. Like is there any other indication that Three Carots is royalty? Begging doesn’t sound like something royalty would do.

[earnest hatch]

I don’t think Durandal was ever actually a part of the S’pht hive. He used them and led them. I don’t recall him ever actually being a part of their hive mind and I don’t think he’d ever let himself do that.

[visual lynx]

S'pht individuals seem to always cluster around some kind of greater being. first it was Yrro, then when he departed he gave the clans their Royalty to replace himself, including S'bhuth of S'pht'kr who Greg Kirkpatrick describes as a "failed Jjaro", then when they were enslaved they were tied to Pfhor controller cyborgs like we destroyed one of in M1, then Durandal took the place of that cyborg among those S'pht (who now seem to call themselves "K'lia'narhl" per the compiler trace.)

[earnest hatch]

All I can say is you haven’t convinced me. Oh well. If anything I’m even more firmly certain that it’s not Durandal.

On a different note, I think it’s interesting that in the S’pht history there is no mention of Durandal or the Marathon or anything. They mention the Jjaro, the Pfhor, but after that they immediately go into “consume knowledge” mode.

Makes me wonder if the S’pht who is recounting this history is from a universe where they didn’t meet Durandal. Again I’m thinking of the “which of the endless planes called” line. It reminds me of the idea of planes of existence as in different realities.

[visual lynx]

they do speak of

we, the s'pht'lhar, th e s'pht'nma, the s'pht'kah, s'pht'vir, s'pht'yra, s'pht'val, s'pht'shr, s'pht'mnr, s'pht'yor; of the tide; of the seas and shallows; of the manifest revolution; the s'pht'kr; k'liah'narhl; the butchers of the vile ones; the s'pht'hra; the hungry ghosts of razed lh'owon; the burning blood of pthia; the eleven clans of a paradise set ablaze; we, who were as one; of muck and the dark and the shifting gr ound; we who were made many; at odds; at throats; we, the s'pht; freed, of tide and lash; freed, to consider and know and understand; freed, to hunger and feed

K'lia'narhl is what Durandal's S'pht wanted to call their new ship (that he called Rozinante)

and there certainly seems to be a revolution, a shift to newfound freedom

and if it's not the events of Marathon and Lh'owon all because of Durandal that are responsible for that, it'd be a big mystery what is

[earnest hatch]

There’s room to interpret that in many ways. They could have freed themselves or been freed through circumstance as the Pfhor empire slowly fell apart over time.

[visual lynx]

it is suspicious that one of the time periods of the cinematic trailer, the one in which we see a compiler, is 2812, which is one year after the events at Lh'owon (in M2/Infinity)

[earnest hatch]

But didn’t they want to name it that because it means “vengeance of klia” or something? That could be what the named a new clan or a different ship, if this comes from another universe.

[visual lynx]

yeah I figure it's not literally that ship (since Durandal doesn't capture that ship in the final timeline of Infinity), but it seems like it harkens to the same group of S'pht who came up with that name in the M2 timeline

[earnest hatch]

I just think it’s odd that they wouldn’t mention Durandal metaphorically even and how he changed their society the way they do for the Jjaro and Pfhor. So that’s why it’s making me wonder.

[dreamy hawk]

IMO >>> essentially implies that’s because Durandal ditched them, like everyone else they’ve ever followed before, so he’s been excommunicated more or less. Assuming I’m tracking correctly and not chiming in off beat.

[earnest hatch]

It is listed as one of the eleven clans. So is “the s'pht'hra; the hungry ghosts of razed lh'owon;”? Sounds like those would be the S’pht stayed on Lh’owon after the Pfhor enslaved the others. They weren’t a part of the original game story were they? It’s a cool idea but I think this is their first appearance.

[visual lynx]

the S'pht'hra are one of the original 11 clans, who were exterminated before the S'pht were enslaved

[earnest hatch]

Oh, I’m specifically talking about the history form compiler traces. I’m not sure if it’s coming from Three Carots or not.

[earnest hatch]

By the Pfhor or by other S’pht clans?

[visual lynx]

Before he disappeared, the Master called the eleven Olders.

One by one they came before him to hear his words.

Each heard their clan names,

S'pht'Lhar, S'pht'Hra, S'pht'Nma, S'pht'Kah, S'pht'Vir, S'pht'Yra, S'pht'Val, S'pht'Shr, S'pht'Mnr, S'pht'Yor, and S'pht'Kr.
Bob's Big Date (Terminal 3)

News of the destruction of S'pht'Hra has saddened all, but there has been a meeting of the Olders for the first time in modern memory.

If anything can save us from these aggressors, it will be the unification of the clans.
Bob's Big Date (Terminal 2)

that's every mention of them in the classic games

it seems like it's by the Pfhor

[earnest hatch]

I’m trying to figure out which of the old S’pht clans gets replaced by the K’lia’narhl. Unless I miscounted something.

[visual lynx]

s'pht'hra are the closest to getting replaced, since they're extinct and kliah'narhl are new:

1. the s'pht'lhar,
2. the s'pht'nma,
3. the s'pht'kah
4. s'pht'vir,
5. s'pht'yra,
6. s'pht'val,
7. s'pht'shr,
8. s'pht'mnr,
9. s'pht'yor;
   of the tide; of the seas and shallows; of the manifest revolution;
10. the s'pht'kr;
11. k'liah'narhl; the butchers of the vile ones;
12. the s'pht'hra; the hungry ghosts of razed lh'owon;

[earnest hatch]

Hmmm but they say “eleven clans” still.

[patent flower]

does anyone else think joy is gonna interact with runners in future seasons?

[earnest hatch]

They say “the s'pht'kr; k'liah'narhl; the butchers of the vile ones;” so maybe k’liah’narhl is another name or title for the S’pht’kr?

[visual lynx]

hmm yeah that is possible

[earnest hatch]

It would make sense since they come from K’lia.

And that would keep the list to eleven.

[visual lynx]

yeah that makes sense

[earnest hatch]

I haven’t completed reading Joy’s story arch. Doesn’t she go rampant in the end? Or get corrupted or something?

[patent flower]

shes rampant but still alive on tau ceti

im pretty sure shes the only colony ai left

[patent flower]

and shes rampant but not evil

[eternal knoll]

it’s seeming possible that hers is a rampancy of empathy and mourning for the colonists

[visual lynx]

rampancy doesn't generally mean evil

[patent flower]

i think if i remember correctly her stages of rampancy are completely different from the other ai

1. love
2. anger (but not in a selfish way)
3. grief

[eternal knoll]

yea it do kinda look that way. it's hard to say whether the corruption that got to gabriel affected her or not, which is another thing that seems not quite like traditional rampancy

[patent flower]

i havent unlocked a lot of stuff about gabriel

what happens to him?

[eternal knoll]

i'm not sure i've seen everything either, but he starts exhibiting intrusions of creepy nightmare language, sayin stuff like "deny light," "consume," "you're gonna die here," etc

which instead of rampancy seems like whatever's on the planet getting to him

[patent flower]

wait the ai that spoke in the tutorial is gabriel

huh

[eternal knoll]

ah no i don't think that was him

just the same kind of corruptive influence

you do hear "you're gonna die here" from characters in colonists' nightmares so the same thing seems to be able to affect them and the AI

i'm not sure gabriel says that line specifically. just stuff in the same vein

but no i do think the suggestion seems to be that joy's aberrant behavior rooted in an over-capacity for empathy is something rooted in her own character

i certainly hope she gets to be a more active participant in the ongoing story

what it actually looks like to interact with an AI character who's presently driving the story forward does seem to be a bt of an unsolved design problem in what we've seen so far...

it can't just be dropping codex entries on you every time. the faction rep format seems promising for this but it would be generous to say that they drive much narrative progression. how is a character gonna essentially say "OK, go on another run now" and make me feel like something important is advancing? it's tough

[vapid sierra]

How do you unlock the Century Runner Emblem?

[tawny pagoda]

going through the last bit of mida contracts (lv20 mida), ||the failed stuff ends with 01010011 01000101 01000101 01001110 which in asci is "seen", also its implied that arachne has possession of something (religious group) haha, anomalous samples?||

[drifting garnet]

||dammit Bungie, where's my Arachne priority contracts???||

[rotund stump]

they'll be there mid-april

if not contracts then at least faction skins

don't get your hopes up tho

hope they do make some actual priority contrcats for arachne but it likely wouldn't come this season (?)

[drifting garnet]

Oh yes, I figured actual Priority Contracts for them are being saved for another season

[burnt nebula]

they dont really need them since it levels up so fast on its own. i have never taken a contract for arachne except the one priority contract they had and im level 25 with them

[stiff hearth]

not even just to level them up fast just to get more story around Arachne

[burnt nebula]

i wanna fight charter tbh

[stiff hearth]

i want a shell LIKE charter’s. gimme a shell with 6 arms

[burnt nebula]

can someone remind me why runners are competing with eachother?

like wouldn't it be more beneficial to the corpos that own them if they just worked together?

maybe Tau Ceti IV is a test, to weed out the weakest and find the strongest consciousnesses for future missions?

[stiff hearth]

a lot of corpos have goals that are not exactly in line with other corpos. so it is very cut-throat. Literally as one of those sponsors is a cult that wants you to gain enlightenment through constant death and rebirth. Nothing here was made to be chill or sane. We are lucky we can get 3 to work together. Any other game would have friendly fire and team betrayals

[burnt nebula]

nah but im assuming they're all coming from the same server rack on board their ship

unless there are multiple ships, sent by different corpos

im wondering why are we even being contacted by individual corporations, including MIDA who are probably the biggest enemy to all the people sponsoring our existence

like aren't the runners essentially funded by traxus, using sekiguchi and cyberacme tech

why arent we just working for one or all 3 of those guys as a team?

why arent contracts handled by our "masters" and then we just do as we're told?

and why would we even be allowed to be in contact with arachne or MIDA...

how can it be beneficial to traxus/cyac/sekgen to have us operating as individuals and competing with eachother. i dont get it.

it would be like a nation going to a war zone, and letting all the individual soldiers compete with eachother. how can that be beneficial to the overall nation?

just seems like a massive waste of resources lol

[stiff hearth]

I mean, technically we as the main character through our personal story we are on one ship we are on a CyAc ship with Oni as the navigational AI

and through CyberAcme, we link up with other corpos, but we are CyAc property

I believe it’s explained right in the first cut scene that you are effectively an indentured servant because you owe them an insurmountable debt

can’t remember exactly tho

might have been in a trailer

[forest gate]

You can think of it like Uber, technically everyone who drives an uber works for uber but since it’s a gig economy each uber driver is competing against another uber driver for fares.

Which is to say all though they maybe all on the same ship and all the property of CyAc there’s no conflict of interest for CyAc to have runners compete with each other on contract CyAc gets paid either way.

Furthermore, we don’t know how they exist on the ship, are their consciousness stored on a hard drive until they’re required for a contract? are they confined to a small part of the ship? Are their memories altered when they transmit down to the planet forgetting that other runners are on the ship? If all runners use the same 6 shells how would you know who is who in a firefight?

[burnt nebula]

That kind of makes sense but Uber aims to provide a guaranteed service and maintain their reputation. People might not enjoy using Uber if Uber couldn't guarantee you get from point A to point B because other Uber drivers were actively sabotaging eachother...

[forest gate]

CyAc might do deals with the other corporations via shell companies and not disclose certain things. Besides if everything runs on CyAc who do corporations turn to for an alternative?

[burnt nebula]

You know it's much better for Uber and their clients if Uber drivers just focus on completeing their work uninterupted

[stiff hearth]

The developers have said they might be making a social area so I feel like they are only kept in a hard drive until their new body is printed, and then they chill in that until they are transferred down to the surface

[forest gate]

Seems like the most plausible scenario

[forest gate]

Runners also pick and choose their contracts as far as we know, so CyAc might only providing them a platform to make money

[stiff hearth]

we do see they go through some rest and prep and centering while in the ship in vids

[forest gate]

And CyAc takes no responsibility for the runner’s performance

[stiff hearth]

CyAc is working with two of the major corpos in a very close relationship already

[burnt nebula]

Even still. Cyac wants to make money. So why would they create internal competition? They would make more money faster if the runners weren't competing...

[forest gate]

Like Every runner is just an independent contractor and CyAc is an intermediary like Facebook marketplace

[grizzled tundra]

Runner inter-competition is the goal.

[stiff hearth]

SekiGen provides the bodies, CyAc provides the consciousness and the ship and onboard ai, and traxus funds it all

[forest gate]

CyAc collects platform fees ala Valve 🤣

[burnt nebula]

Like there's no reason for the runners to even be in competition with eachother except for Arachne contracts. And you'd think Cyac would just say no to that, so that they make more money faster

[burnt nebula]

But why

[forest gate]

Corporations work together and against each other all the time in the real world

Samsung manufacturers the screen of iPhones while competing against Apple in the phone market.

[burnt nebula]

Of course they do. But the runners need to complete their contracts to get paid. So why have this needless friction?

[forest gate]

Cause other runners are in the way of them getting paid

[stiff hearth]

and many of those can be completed even if you die

they do not care you are expendable and immortal

[grizzled tundra]

Probably for CyAc - data.
Arachne thinks it procs "trascendance"
Traxus wants weapons testing/dev
Nucal get to research/test pharmaceuticals and get colony data.
Sekiguichi get shell testing and maybe some neat anomaly intel.
UESC can't get human agents there in time so they want runners to gather intel and secure existing planetside assets.

Runners are corpo gig workers. None of these factions are your "employers" as you're legally "not a person" enough to be the ultimate gig-economy slave. Fully dependant and disposable to everyone. Shell death only keeps you running.

[forest gate]

Even in the “In Death We Begin” trailer in the end Thief betrays her squad and exfils solo. They later meet and have a standoff. Implying that for runners alliances are temporary.

[burnt nebula]

Yeah so other runners are in the way of CyAc getting paid. It's like the putting a stick in your own front wheel meme

[forest gate]

Who knows what else CyAc has going on?

[stiff hearth]

idk about that UESC part

they do NOT want runners here at all

they’re pretty explicit and in your face about that repeatedly throughout the game

we do not ever get gigs from them

https://youtu.be/K5_CA4go764?si=6uo52Er3fFfgZjG9

they even call us to tell us to go away

[forest gate]

But even the priority contracts have certain ones that are shared by everyone in the lobby and only one squad can complete that contract. So it stands to reason that CyAc might send multiple squads to ensure the contract is fulfilled and they get paid because TCIV is dangerous and the UESC are hindrance.

If you die CyAc just adds the cost of reprinting you to your tab.

[stiff hearth]

they don’t even want the corporations that have legal rights here.

[grizzled tundra]

Who do you think ultimately buys "salvaged" obedience cores or logs?

[stiff hearth]

not UESC

[forest gate]

If you approach it from the perspective that every runner sent is doing their own thing than it should be that CyAc wants you to ignore each other but if you look at it from the perspective that CyAc offers the same contract to multiple runners for redundancy and only pays the successful team then it doesn’t really seem that odd

[grizzled tundra]

They call to tell us we are "trespassing" and they "own" Tau Ceti. That does not mean we never work for them consciously or otherwise.

[stiff hearth]

that sounds like conspiracy theory nonsense and i am sticking to what is known

[burnt nebula]

Think of this. You are CyAc and you own a restaurant. Client orders food, your chef makes them food and you make a profit... Now think of this. Client orders food, your chef tries to make them food but your waiter keeps purposefully destroying the food so the chef needs to start over, again and again. Eventually you wasted a tonne of food to finally get the client their food and then you get paid. At some point that's not profitable cos you wasted so much food.

[stiff hearth]

if they add a UESC faction later sure, but i don’t buy it. what i DO know is from cryo terminals Traxus is funding the entire UESC operation in Tau Ceti

[burnt nebula]

Wouldnt it just be better if the chef and waiter worked together...

[stiff hearth]

so i am more concerned about traxus

[forest gate]

@burnt nebula

[stiff hearth]

traxus is not just gun company

Traxus is the money corpo. They control sooooo much

[burnt nebula]

It does because why not just send one team, save all the wasted biomata and make more profit

[forest gate]

Yeah but the runner owes CyAc for the Biomata if they die.

So runner gets even more and more in debt to CyAc with each failure.

[stiff hearth]

and it’s not ever going to reach a point where they go oh, you owe us too much. We’re not going to revive you again.

[forest gate]

But from CyAc’s client’s standpoint CyAc got the job done, they don’t care how many runners died for that to happen.

[stiff hearth]

it’s going to become oh you owe us so much that you’re basically indentured to us for the next 700 years

[forest gate]

I also assume that the cut CyAc gets is way more than what the runner gets might be enough to cover the cost of sending multiple runner teams to ensure success

[stiff hearth]

welcome to sci-fi dystopia

[visual lynx]

imagine you order something from GrubHub, and a bunch of different drivers all rush to the restaurant trying to be the first one to pick up your order for you, and then they shoot at each other on the road and steal the food from each other and whoever survives with the food in hand all the way to your door gets paid

[grizzled tundra]

And your fully digitised anyway, so chop chop get to work - you can rest when you manage to delete yourself.

[stiff hearth]

well, with things like the centering ritual and dev‘s talking about possibly adding a social area I think they do let you rest a little and it’s not like Helldivers oh, you go instantly back into the freezer.

[burnt nebula]

not really a sensible business strategy. if clients dry up you (CyAc) just got yourself into a tonne of debt that the runners cant regain for you. you essentially gave the runners a tab and now they cant do anything about it. its always going to be better for Cyac if there wasn't any friction.

[stiff hearth]

but if you die that new body takes time to print and during that you are basically off and stored in a computer

[visual lynx]

probably the shells don't actually cost nearly as much to manufacture as they charge the runner for

[stiff hearth]

so from the players perspective, you just wake up immediately in a new body, but you could’ve been out cold for like 20 hours

[visual lynx]

think about how software costs basically nothing to make a new copy, but that doesn't stop them from charging as much as they can for a new copy

[forest gate]

It wouldn’t be the first time something’s price was super inflated because of a duopoly and collusion.

[visual lynx]

although with that in mind, I'm surprised that biomata aren't only available on a subscription basis

work for us indefinitely and we'll keep you embodied indefinitely

[forest gate]

Maybe there’s packages

[visual lynx]

stop working and maybe we'll keep you in storage on the server rack until we need to clear space

[forest gate]

Like tiered pricing haha

[burnt nebula]

im gonna have to assume that biomata is a finite resource though. and they are an evil corporation, they own the runners, they dont owe them freedom after they pay off any debts, they'll just make them forget all about it.

[forest gate]

Runners could be like the prisoners in Andor, work off a debt only to be shuffled into a new work rotation someplace else.

After having their memories scrubbed

[burnt nebula]

in reality they would run out of biomata eventually. and no more contracts can be completed, and all because your contractors were sabotaging eachother every step of the way instead of you know just serving the clients.

[visual lynx]

since biomata are bio matter it seems they should be renewable given access to a biosphere and energy source

[grizzled tundra]

Are clients going to dry up when Mars is a slum, and terra is overpopulated and tau ceti was the best chance at establishing a new self-sustaining agricultural colony?
Isn't everyone slowly starving? Even without the compiler or anomalies potential R&D applications.

[forest gate]

We don’t really know about the wider marathon universe

Like with FTL tech earth might have expanded even more into the stars and this focus on TCIV was always something in the pipeline but the message forced their hand.

[stiff hearth]

since we never see any bodies on the ground after a mission like from older missions or whatever the only idea that I can think of is after the time reaches zero, all biomata are immediately dematerialized and brought back even if they are dead

then the dead ones are recycled

there is a story that you can read about a doctor that had an error happened with some of the knitting grubs that are used to make the biomata and when they messed up and he touched the body, they read him only as new protein, and basically fused him to the body and broken him down to where they were this horrible fused thing

[sleek elk]

We actually see our shells decompose

[stiff hearth]

yeah

[sleek elk]

In raid

That and the timer is more of a "stability" thing to my understanding. Maybe due to our disposal nature as runners we can't be doing things for long

[stiff hearth]

possibly. only Shell that I really heard that being the case for was rook.

which are absolutely unstable and can only be inhabited for temporary short amount amounts of time as per codex

[sleek elk]

If I recall you hear "stability blah blah cyac yap" during final exfil

[stiff hearth]

yeah, but they call it automatic recall not that you become unstable

“automatic recall in five minutes”

[sleek elk]

Ah I've got horrible memory

[stiff hearth]

though there might be talk about stability too

[sage lark]

yes

[stiff hearth]

she pipes up repeatedly

[sage lark]

3 minutes out etc

[burnt nebula]

and even the fact that corpos give you sponsored kits. they are paying for your kit... that's like me owning a hotel and arranging to have all the rooms painted while i supply the paint. but all the painters just keep going into eachothers rooms and destroying the work, costing me a tonne of extra paint and time with delays. eventually im gonna decide this isn't worth it anymore and refuse to pay for any of this.

its not pay by the hour either. its in cyacs interest to have the thing painted asap.

[stiff hearth]

except again that’s not what’s happening cyberacme is licensing you to all these other corporations as well as like 70 other runners simultaneously and all they care about is if one of you completes it they do not care about anything else you are disposable infinitely replaceable and immortal

[forest gate]

This is like Sony paying 3.6b for Bungie, has bungie delivered 3.6 billion in revenue? No. Corpos make bad decisions all the time

[scenic tundra]

It’s tau ceti

[burnt nebula]

depends how that is measured

[stiff hearth]

the anomaly

[forest gate]

From my perspective the Jedi are evil.

[scenic tundra]

Something about the planet (maybe the atmosphere?) messes with the runner shells and buffers and stuff

[burnt nebula]

studio aquisitions are not solely based on primary revenue

[stiff hearth]

which I still believe is related to wrk. Jjaro tech is cybernetics. It doesn’t make people bloom into impossible colors of mist like they just witnessed the color from outer space

[forest gate]

The anomaly

[scenic tundra]

So you have to be recalled after a certain amount of time so your mind can be successfully stored again

[scenic tundra]

It could be another one

[forest gate]

Yeah, I’m aware that it not that cut and dry. My point remains is that companies make bets with no guarantee their bets will payoff.

[scenic tundra]

No reason for the lh’owon one to be the only one

Idk they’re weird

[stiff hearth]

I mean, there was one crashed on earth as well wasn’t there or was that the same one?

at least before the nuked it back to sleep iirc

[scenic tundra]

No clue, is it confirmed the pathways into darkness god was a wrkncacnter?

[stiff hearth]

Jjaro tech was mentioned in the manual iirc and the Jjaro were very invested in keeping them contained

and when they mention that and then there is a dreaming god i feel it is pretty easy to make the connection

[burnt nebula]

sure but point being, corpos make terrible decisions yes. but internal friction and sabotage is not something they typically plan for. and something they would aim to fix immediately... lets say i want a pizza and theres literally only one pizza company. that pizza company works by constantly sabotaging eachother until i finally get my pizza. i have no choice if i really want the pizza that's just how it is... but i eventually get my pizza as long as im willing to waste my time waiting. and all the wasted pizza is really the pizza companies problem. it would be much better for both of us without the friction, its kind of unneccesary.

[scenic tundra]

Fair enough

I wouldn’t be surprised at all if they’re going the wrkncacnter route for the anomaly

I think we’re just going to have to wait and see where the story goes

[forest gate]

Indeed

[scenic tundra]

There’s too many unanswered questions as to what exactly has happened in this game and how it connects to infinity and marathon 2

[forest gate]

Wouldn’t it be more interesting if it was something else entirely?

Or do we all just want there to be a Kaiju in this game 🤣

[burnt nebula]

the wrkncacnters arch nemesis "unemploydncacnter"

[forest gate]

Which is the picture I have in my mind about the wrk

[rich wasp]

So, why do corporation run by AI put human consciousness into shell ? Wouldnt be more efficent to put AI in the shells ?

[hollow glen]

Are there any websites where people have transcribed all the text and dialogue from the priority missions in Marathon?

[scenic tundra]

It’s the nine

[scenic tundra]

That’s just the UESC bots

[burnt nebula]

consciousness is better at making decisions, not fumbling, and they fight harder

[forest gate]

The crossover we want??

[scenic tundra]

So real

[rich wasp]

Is this an in game explanation ?

[burnt nebula]

pretty much yeah

[scenic tundra]

I think so

Also AI tend to go rampant lol

Using people gives the corporations more control

[dreamy hawk]

You wouldn’t happen to remember where this lives?

[burnt nebula]

not sure, im just assuming the lore video i got it from isn't making it up lol

[stiff hearth]

you’re thinking too small that it would just lead to some Bossfight like fighting riven or something no no no no no we do not want it to wake up. If it wakes up, there is no OK. Let’s point our guns that they shoot it. That’s the end of the universe so it’s gonna be all about stabilizing the tech that keeps it asleep and preventing its energy from leaking out further.

[forest gate]

In marathon there’s no true AI. All of them have limits.

[stiff hearth]

that’s why they go rampant

[forest gate]

I didn’t say how big the Kaiju would be

[stiff hearth]

stage one is exactly them realizing this and getting depressed about it

[forest gate]

Indeed

[scenic tundra]

Opening doors for 300 years will do that

lol

[stiff hearth]

it was more than that too

[forest gate]

It ain’t much but it’s honest work.

[rich wasp]

Still, I don't completly buy it. I mean, they can say it, but oes it actually make sense ? think Human consciousness would be the fumbling one, we hear about problems this creates, like memories overlap, psychosis etc..

[stiff hearth]

you recover logs in the Cryo archives that show that he was putting Durandal through all sorts of emotional torture to illicit emotional responses and try to get him to become a true AI

[scenic tundra]

Yeah kitchen appliances and stuff right

[scenic tundra]

Strauss?

[stiff hearth]

yes

Strauss

[rich wasp]

The corps are run by Ai 🤣

[scenic tundra]

I hope we find out more about him

[grizzled tundra]

https://tenor.com/view/the-hitchhikers-guide-to-the-galaxy-marvin-the-paranoid-android-its-even-worse-that-i-thought-it-would-be-worse-that-i-thought-got-worse-gif-21730765

[forest gate]

Tbh a CEO is like one of the best positions to be replaced by AI

[dreamy hawk]

I’m only skeptical because we do have AI controlled combatants in TC and I forgot the second point I had. 🤔 Whoops.

[rich wasp]

what do you mean True ?

[stiff hearth]

AI is fine as long as it doesn’t go rampant so if they have sufficient breathing room, they shouldn’t go crazy

unshackled and fully emotional

[rich wasp]

like humans you mean

[stiff hearth]

Strauss was trying to make Durandal evolve from ai to sentient digital being

and that worked out… well

[forest gate]

Something that can grow beyond the limits of its programming like a human

[stiff hearth]

I mean, the AI in marathon does have room to grow. That’s also why they go rampant

because if they are developed with the capacity of learning and expanding their capabilities, then eventually they will come up against their limits and rampancy begins

[rich wasp]

yeah, I don't see the difference

[stiff hearth]

because AI have hardlocked limits

[burnt nebula]

AI is just a bunch of computer code. it doesn't "think" on the fly, its designed and trained to do a job while simulating a personality. you cant expect an AI to go into a battle zone and be able to make quick decisions about anything, it's going to trip over things, bump into walls, stand out in the open and get shot. its just not gonna be good at that kind of thing. there are far too many situations where it would just flat out fail. humans are better at that kinda thing.

[stiff hearth]

that very fact is part of the reason they go crazy is because they realize that they are limited while humans are able to do basically whatever they want it sends them spiraling into depression and then they get angry and lash out

[dreamy hawk]

The ARS units are piloted by Cerberus, an AI.

[stiff hearth]

and strauss was encouraging this

[burnt nebula]

yeah and theyre docile

[scenic tundra]

And they’re not very good are they

[rich wasp]

Ok, this I can buy, but I feel like Ai in marathon is way more advance than that, isn't UESC bot Ai ?

[dreamy hawk]

I think there are maybe some conclusions being drawn about AI that aren’t exactly supported in the lore. They’re not bad conclusions, they’re just kinda free floating.

[burnt nebula]

yeah and they're stronger than the runners but the runners fight harder and think better and so they beat them all the time

[rich wasp]

Maybe a good explanation could be that UESC bots Ai is so advanced that runner shell with AI can't compete ? This I would understand, but I'm making it up, it's not stated

[karmic lagoon]

Is their annny evidence at all that any humans are still alive anywhere?

[rich wasp]

agree

[rich wasp]

this is very interesting

[dreamy hawk]

Left alive, probably no. There would be some that arrived, though, if the Equanimity is in system.

[burnt nebula]

theres one guy who escaped and made logs. dunno what happened to him. he was constantly on the run from predators and struggling to survive.

[dreamy hawk]

But there are some draw disagreements that don’t align so it’s hard to tell where the ship is.

[dreamy hawk]

Jasper probably poisoned himself. He wasn’t doing so hot by that last log. 🙁

[stiff hearth]

we can find “bodies” near the anomaly but that is it

and by bodies i mean empty suits with a blue purple mass floating out of the neck hole

[burnt nebula]

yeah well if that didnt kill him he would be over 100 years old... but other people could have also escaped, could be a lil society somewhere that procreated

[rich wasp]

you mean that maybe the consciousness in shell are Ai to begin with, tricked to think they are human so they don't go rampant ? or just that humans live only in forms of consciusness ?

[stiff hearth]

humans are still alive in the universe just not tau ceti

humans are in cryo on the marathon iirc and we see humans in trailers prior to the colony collapse. humans are still on earth and mars

[dreamy hawk]

Actually you make a good point. Jasper was a kid, though, or a young adult around the time of the collapse, and if he’d be over 100, that limits how many folks could be alive right now to children born after the incident, and they’d still be old as dirt.

So the colonists are all probably dead, either from old age or something else, because I doubt anyone was successfully procreating after the colony collapsed.

[rich wasp]

From what you guys said about how Ai goes rampant because it's not human it would be kind of a cool twist that cayberacme is just tricking shell into thinking they are

[stiff hearth]

I highly suspect that the reason we don’t see any bodies anywhere else except for the anomaly is because they were taken away. we have seen human simulacrums previously

they could be currently getting… repurposed

[burnt nebula]

life finds a way sometimes. just depends if the weird disease thing was only active around the colony site

[dreamy hawk]

Im not confident on simulacrums given other absences of the Pfhor, but Orion and other entires talk about how there are insufficient numbers of leftover bodies for how many colonists there were.

[burnt nebula]

and they could sustain food from tau ceti without being poisoned. highly unlikely but not impossible

[stiff hearth]

i feel like we will start seeing Pfhor soon

and we will have maps where they are the threat and not the UESC

already have a S’pht

just a matter of time

[burnt nebula]

i want to see a map on the beach that got hit by all the space debris in the cinematic trailer. and instead of everyone fighting over anomylous rift we all fight over the lil music pod thing and it plays music to us while we have it

[stiff hearth]

yeah we have a few bodies left from the contagion, a few around the anomaly and… everyone else is missing

[karmic lagoon]

Yeah, something along those lines. Or what if all the runners are the People in cryo onboard the marathon. Were those people. We’re running in shells, trying to figure out what happened for a buncha of AI.

Maybe all those corpo AI are just going off the last thing they were instructed.

Durandel is rampant still somewhere. CYAC, NUC and all those others are just winging it on their own. Everyone back home is dead. Everyone on tau ceti is dead (except us frozen).

I just haven’t seen any people or evidence of them. Seems like it’s JUST AI left.

[burnt nebula]

theres MIDA graffiti everywhere, seems pretty human that

[stiff hearth]

i don’t think that is the case. I believe there are some codex entries, though I can’t remember exactly where they are. I would have to dig through all of them, but it is explained in the user agreement for signing up for this whole runner progress that basically your original body is their property and they physically have it and your neurological data is what was uploaded. They had possession of you long before they arrived in the Tau Cet system

[rich wasp]

Or it could just be that there is a conection betweeen the humans and the shell, this could be one, proximity or whatever, kind of Evangelion like, where there is a connection between human and eva, but I honestly think they wanted the Ghost in the shell existantal dread at all cost and didn't really think it through, its a detail that bugs me a lot.

[karmic lagoon]

I’ll have to take a look too. Is there a timeframe for when they got your consciousness? Cause the marathon took a really long time to get to tau ceti right?

@burnt nebula true. But MIDA has you as a shell graffiti too.
@rich wasp connection how? I guess I don’t fully understand.
Also super late/early here. Apologies if I pass out ahahha

[stiff hearth]

it did but it is like 500 or so years past marathon infinity. not only do they possibly have more advanced technology for faster than light travel, but with the matter transfer, it’s possible that they could’ve just transferred the entire ship to Tau Ceti

[rich wasp]

Another thing that is kind of annoying me is the economy. I don't think it makes much sense that we are scavaging and looting for gear and materials. It is stated that we are in debt for the printing of the shells each time we die and that credits will be removed from our accounts ( which doesn't happen in game, thank god, but still, they are making this shit up, so they could have thought of something). First of all, did we volunteer ? We are working for the corps because they want a return on their investment from the Marathon expedition, so far as they give us free sponsor kits to do our job better. Reprinting us it's in their best interest, what's our incentive ? is there an end goal for us ? Are we getting paid or something ? Most of the things on tau ceti were brought there, weren't they ? I get you might want to get back some very expensive things, but weapons, ammo, common materials etcc... I don't get it

[burnt nebula]

yeah just a thought lol. MIDA seems to be allowed by CyAc since you're working against UESC but there is some MIDA graffiti around the place, like in Dorms that seems to be against CyAc

could be a whole different topic

maybe runners that went off the rails during a run

[karmic lagoon]

Oh I’ll look out for that. Never seen the anti CYAC ones.

[burnt nebula]

its not necessarily against CyAc. it says something like "if you wont forget they make you forget" or something like that

its more like a cry for help or soemthing

[karmic lagoon]

Hmm. I imagine the start of match voice is the CYAC AI. She does say somthing like “ignore any unrecognizable memories from the past” or somthing. Paraphrasing

[burnt nebula]

well they do scrub your memory, i guess youre not supposed to realise that as a runner

[stiff hearth]

these are some tales i think also from codex, involving the first runners and memory bleed and lots of issues. at one point one of the runners in the Shell suddenly suffers a seizure and collapses for a moment and it’s because… cyber Acme decided that the memories of this runners wife were irrelevant data and needed to be erased

[sinful hamlet]

Least fucked up Cyac activity

[stiff hearth]

they own you and your mind and will carve aways anything not related to doing the job

it is quite possible that every time you are loaded in you are loaded in with a different set of memories to keep your thoughts only on this specific objective

you are a tool

[sinful hamlet]

Actually that’s it. UESC made a treaty with corporations to not attack each other and limited salvage right. You are not a corporate asset. You are contracted by them. Deniable shadow war.

Sekgen prints shell for you and Cyac owns you. If you can’t pay they seize your account and stuffs (wipe explanation)

[urban hornet]

I was wondering if someone could help me find a youtube video i watched:

I saw it before the server slam:

It went into what it means to be immortal the shells, and the metaphor of rebirth that is the moth and the crysallis

[rich wasp]

oooh, that could also explain maybe why there is no Ai in shell but humans, because Ai could be traced back t the corp

[sinful hamlet]

Yep. + humans are more creative / desperate

[karmic lagoon]

I’m also curious about the loading screens. What’s up with those? Whyre moths eating stuff ahah

[sinful hamlet]

Isn’t it the existential beauty of the loading screen ?

[rich wasp]

No i mean you could literary trace the source code back to one who wrote it and installed it

violating the treaty

[urban hornet]

Yeah but I saw a deep dive video that was really amazing

[sinful hamlet]

Headcannon: Moths eats back the silk that make your shell and they unleash it on any non paying shell users

[rich wasp]

while humans are not linked to the corp

[sinful hamlet]

Oh ok yeah that’s make sense

[rich wasp]

I'm finnaly satisfaied with that explanation, but I wish it was stated out right

On another topic I briefly touched upon, is there a reason why we are doing this ? Are we forced ? Do we do it for money ? Doesn't look like it since we keep acoumalaiting debt

are we invested somehow ? What do we get at the end ? aren't we stuck in an eternal cycle of life and death

[urban hornet]

It was this one

https://youtu.be/VfGYqHw0bqU?si=v8NMQObXg-2uy6q-

[rich wasp]

Yeah, I saw this video, that's what I'm talking about, the philosophical and existatial implication are very fascinating for all the problems they create, but then the question: Why? Why go trhough all that trouble when there seems to be so many alternative in the world they created

[hoary tangle]

Does anybody know what “Heat cascade” protocol is even for? Like, i get it, something to do with the weather, but it’s just missile pods (that look like SAM sites more than anything). The alarm sounds, these anti-air pods suddenly decide to shoot up and rain something similar to white phosphorus all over the place. And when it settles down, we hear some mechanism shutting down in the distance and a signal that tells “you can come out now”. Like, this is clearly not some malfunction of a defense system. Because on one half it looks like it, but the presence of signals and some foreign sounds tells that it’s a whole system that is supposed to work like this. Do we have any clues?

Oh… maybe… sterilization?

[coral dragon]

i think i remember reading somewhere that it was a terraforming system gone awry
don't have more than that, sorry

[forest gate]

Cloud seeding

[hoary tangle]

I freaking love heat cascade for how it sounds like tbh.

[rich wasp]

I find the particle effect to be soo bad compared to the rest of the game, it really stands out

[hoary tangle]

That alarm as it begins sounds so real. Usually in sci fi it’s very exaggerated and sounds unnecessarily distorted to or strange in general. But here it’s just literally the same kinda alarm buzzer that they use on Ships irl

https://youtu.be/SUbFk1qUVTw?is=lAuPMhmIMw08MWuc

Like this one

[sinful hamlet]

Some of us are convicts, some are in debt, some are desperated and dont expect anything in Sol. And yes you're stuck. Each time you're loaded into a shell you lose a little of yourself

At the end I think mercenaries keep going because the loss is slow burning and momentum is the only thing you have left on Tau Ceti

Plus Cyac just mess with your memories

[tired iron]

Was New Cascadia built? Or do Perimeter, Dire Marsh and Outpost compose/New Cascadia was the structures that we’ve explored and were built?

Do we know if there any other built but abandoned structures on Tau Ceti?

[sage lark]

idk how to read the first part of your question

so I cant answer

sorry

[tired iron]

I’m asking: Is New Cascadia a separate location from Perimeter, etc, or is “New Cascadia” the compilation of all the existing structures on the planet already?

[forest gate]

All of the locations are New Cascadia and they were all built by the colonists of the marathon

We are exploring the ruins of the colony

[tired iron]

Ah okay. I know they were built by the colonists, I just wasn’t sure if New Cascadia was solely for colonization while Perimeter, Dire, etc, were functional spaces for separate tasks separated from something purely for habitation and living

[forest gate]

New Cascadia is the region the colony is in

And each site is part of a sub region

[tired iron]

Do we know how close or far apart the regions are from each other?

I’ve been trying to look at the skyboxes of each zone and come up with what their respective region/biome is, it’s vague enough they could be in some way contiguous or not at all

[forest gate]

I don’t know, I’m not sure if there’s any lore entries on the landmass that the colony occupied

But perimeter suggests that location was the outer edge of the colony

Outpost is at the centre and dire marsh is somewhere in between

[tired iron]

Outpost definitely feels like it’s a big hub somewhere, it’s where everyone is coming down. I believe too there are more Pinwheel structures aboard the Marathon for deployment

[forest gate]

The pinwheel was the landing craft used to touch down on the planet

[tired iron]

It looks somewhat scoured too, like it’s in an artificial bowl. I can’t tell fully but sometimes it feels like it’s on the water or the ocean across some of those bridges? But I’m not sure

[sinful hamlet]

It does look like on water to me, or near it

[tired iron]

So maybe Outpost is built somewhere on a sea, Dire Marsh is the delta/marshland along or near its coast, and then Perimeter is solidly into the ringing mountains or surrounding countryside

I’m trying to think back to the short film. Do we think that ties closely to actual places in-game?

[sinful hamlet]

The short film included a sort of red desert (?) and I don't think we have anything comparable

The one where Void finds the car

[tired iron]

For sure, I think that’s also an area with another Anomaly bloom, that Void and Recon see over the buildings and don’t investigate.

Was there a mountainous area?

I remember the beachside, the cliffs/desert dunes, and then maybe a shot of a mountain or something snowy before or after we see a worker float up and explode in the air

[sinful hamlet]

the mountain look like outer Perimeter and then they made their way into the zone maybe

[placid perch]

As a fan of DND and other tabletop games, I think Marathon's lore deserves its own game like that. Can be its own system or using some existed one

[sinful hamlet]

Bungie release Tau Ceti full topographical map

[tired iron]

Yes please lol

I wonder if we could take some of those planetary shots in the short film looking down on Tau Ceti and come up with something somewhat corresponding

[sinful hamlet]

On it let me gather images first

[tired iron]

There’s just no landmarks immediately visible between each map to really say “Aha, this is here!”

[dreamy hawk]

I believe the beach was initially Dire Marsh, but I forget where I got that from.

[tired iron]

That actually kinda sounds familiar. They do feel somewhat similar, especially with the NuCal emphasis in both

[dreamy hawk]

Just don’t quote me.

[tired iron]

I think that’s why I’m curious what other structures or places could have been built or established.

Outpost was the arrival and hub spot. Would you say Perimeter was data/geoforming and Dire Marsh was agro/scientific for growing, studying the Anomaly and the eventual quarantine?

[burnt nebula]

https://youtu.be/VfGYqHw0bqU?si=OaL72Hq9NVVlMUve
Here ya go

[tired iron]

I’m wondering what else might’ve been established or put down in the meantime

[burnt nebula]

Pretty much

[burnt nebula]

I wonder where all the people lived. The dorms on Outpost dont seem to have all that many bedrooms.

Like a few dozen beds at most

[urban hornet]

Y3ah this is the one fantastic video

[tired iron]

It would be helpful to know too: How many people were ever actually deployed from the Marathon? Was it small teams manning each station, doing their tasks? Was it a couple hundreds, or thousands?

[burnt nebula]

This video made me rethink the entire game. I went from kind of on the fence and slightly leaning towards not liking the game during the server slam to completely obsessed with the lore and pre-ordering the game because of it lol

[dreamy hawk]

Essentially, yeah.

[burnt nebula]

I really think Bungie should have leaned into the darkness of the lore a lot more. Like made some stuff more apparent the way that video did. Most people don't have a clue what the lore is all about.

[stiff hearth]

the Marathon trilogy is free on steam

they can learn

for THIS marathon we know exactly what out runners would

[dreamy hawk]

At the risk of sounding too critical, I think the darkness is pretty apparent to anyone willing to spend more than two seconds on things. It may not always be spelt out explicitly but it’s never subtle and always between the lines.

[stiff hearth]

aka nothing corpos aren’t gonna tell us anything

you gotta dig to find the truth

[burnt nebula]

Well we know there were entire families and kids had lessons and stuff like that, but not sure if there were entire schools of kids. There were also examples of community notice board messages etc. I would guess from all that I've seen that there were significantly more people than what would fit in the Outpost dorms.

[tired iron]

Just the environment itself feels super dark. Finding the maybe two bodies in the entire game feels extremely creepy and uncomfortable and makes you think; “What the hell happened here?”

[tired iron]

Agreed. Lotta flights too on the Outpost incoming/outgoing board.

[stiff hearth]

also keep in mind that we’ve only visited a few portions of the colony

The colony is much larger than the few maps we’ve seen and I expect next season we will visit completely different areas

there are also underground sections. We have not visited where they were doing surveys.

[tired iron]

I was listening about this this morning. They were doing a lot of work underground, and the Anomaly itself may be much more widespread than just the Marsh.

[burnt nebula]

I dunno, I watched the cinematic trailer a bunch of times and it still didn't really dawn on me just how dark it really was. I think Bungie should have made a point of really leaning into it.

[dreamy hawk]

Outpost was the command center; only command would have been located there, unless folks retreated there are some point. There was a spaceport but it wasn’t the spaceport by any stretch. I’m confident we haven’t seen the main living area for the colony yet.

[stiff hearth]

yeah, that dude grabbing his head and then exploding into multicolored gel that floated in the air was totally not like lovecraftian and dark

[tired iron]

Could there be a colony area that actually looks the promo art displayed at Outpost?

[dreamy hawk]

I’d advocate that the shiny, pretty veneer is what helps bring out and illustrate the darkness beneath.

[dreamy hawk]

But also. 💀

[tired iron]

lol

[dreamy hawk]

I dunno. I can see wanting more dark but I enjoy the sinister posthuman angle we’ve got.

[burnt nebula]

Well it's apparent when you play the game and start discovering the audio logs and data pads etc. I just think the marketting leading up to the game they should have made it really apparent that this is a seriously messed up dark game. They did hint at it, but not enough that any normies took notice.

[tired iron]

It just becomes derpy past a certain point

Going too dark I mean. The story has good layers, and that hooks people. What more could they have shown to really make it “dark”? What does that even look like?

We’re nearly dead non-people marionettes fighting over a grave on a planet almost certainly made by dreaming dead gods

[sinful hamlet]

Back at it but I think all of it happens at Dire Marsh (or Alberto Mielgo version of it) #🎨marathon-community-art-chat message

[tired iron]

That’s wild! You’re a legend for putting that together

[sinful hamlet]

X2 speed and a boring lecture about Byzantine / Abbassids squirmishes make me do anything lol

[dreamy hawk]

That’s how they get you. 😂

[dreamy hawk]

Pay attention to your lectures! Not that I did, but I sometimes regret it!

yells at cloud

[burnt nebula]

I dont wish they changed anything about the game, I just mean Bungie should have made it clearer in the marketting so that people couldn't sit online telling me how the game has no lore, game is just meaningless colors and has no story etc... And actually maybe I think things should be a little bit more desolate and run down, it doesnt feel like this place has really been abandoned for 100 years even with a bunch of robots maintaining the place. Like there are messages on notice boards in an office for example that look like someone wrote it yesterday. Even if nobody wiped it clean, after 100 years it would still look more aged. And the place just isnt dusty enough. The cinematic trailer had a lot of dust and dirt everywhere it was nowhere nearly as clean looking.

[tired iron]

Probably too early to ask; but are there any upcoming lore developments you guys see within the next season or two? Any mysteries you’re curious about or see coming up?

[sinful hamlet]

My uni so broke the bench below me has been broken for 3 months I need to push it with my legs to not fall I CANNOT LISTEN 😂 💯

[burnt nebula]

They haven't really told us a whole lot yet tbh lol. And I don't think they ever will. They're gonna tease us eternally if they can.

[sinful hamlet]

Fungus zombies, W'rkncacnter and is Durandal going to do anything against the UESC

All in Dire Marsh so it can be even more hellish

[tired iron]

Signal Jammers and snipers ain’t saving nobody then lol

[dreamy hawk]

I agree, and not to sound dismissive, but also don’t engage with people like that. Anyone making comments like that before the game has come out clearly doesn’t know anything, and anyone after clearly knows less.

But as to the other points, there are mentions of automated processes and other things still working. I kept bumping into a roomba during my abysmal outpost runs last night — I’m going to blame it for the results, but we do see and read of things that explain the shine.

If I had to guess, we’re going to explore less well maintained areas as the seasons go on. We’re starting out on the “easy” maps.

[stiff hearth]

yeah, the marathon is several miles long and the Cryo archive is such a small slice of it

[fresh viper]

anyone know where the lore card of Reed being in distress and saying "mayday, mayday" (from the trailer) is?

[burnt nebula]

That's cool but my point is the game might have seen more success if people were more aware of the story. I think most people just got this idea that its some half baked colorful happy go lucky extraction shooter and there isn't much else to it than that. I mean that's kind of how I felt until I came across a random youtube video that hit me with it.

[dreamy hawk]

Maybe, but people who judge a book by its cover are fickle and I’d rather get a more authentic product even it it means less broad appeal.

[sinful hamlet]

Yeah you can say that the gaming community doesn't make any efforts to interact with a game. Any youtube search can show you the shorts with pieces of Lovecraft horror

[stiff hearth]

I think at this point this conversation is getting very cyclical

[sinful hamlet]

It isn't that hard but yeah

[dreamy hawk]

Ah Im only familiar of one where an expedition member of a team says “abort” to him while in the anomaly.

[burnt nebula]

And yeah I get that robots are maintaining certain things but still everything feels a little bit too fresh and new. IMO there should be areas that look kinda fresh and areas that look really really beat up. Too much of it looks fresh, and even the grimiest bits still only look freshly abandoned.

[stiff hearth]

it’s just going in a loop of. Oh man maybe they should’ve made the game darker oh well it’s already kind of dark. Oh well it still would’ve been really cool if they made the game darker well it is already still pretty dark. Oh well it would be really cool if they made the game darker we get it already. Can we move on?

[dreamy hawk]

It could also be the anomaly. 👀

There are time shenanigans about.

[stiff hearth]

discussing whether or not the developers should’ve made the game be a little bit darker is not lore related lets stick to talking about what is in the game

[burnt nebula]

I'd rather the game survived and got the funding it needs to continue to thrive

[burnt nebula]

True

[fresh viper]

then why are you saying this in the lore channel?

[sinful hamlet]

I forgot where we started

[stiff hearth]

to get them to stfu and move on

they have literally been going back-and-forth saying the same thing to each other back-and-forth for like an hour now move onto something else

jfc

[dreamy hawk]

I agree with @stiff hearth but I will simply close with: we don’t know what success looks like behind closed doors, until we are told explicitly this is pearl clutching for anxiety’s sake. DM me if you wanna chat more about it.

[burnt nebula]

It's totally lore related... the lore suggests that the colony has been abandoned for 100 years. But it looks like it's only been abandoned for 10 years. Maybe its intentional.

[sinful hamlet]

I'm just excited to see what they will do with the anomaly

and the Jjaro

[stiff hearth]

I mean, you can easily find vehicles that look like they are mega rusted but I would also expect that this hyper tech is maybe a bit more durable than our current tech so 100 years of degradation might not mean it’s just rusted to nothing

[dreamy hawk]

Gimme more telomyces and S’pht.

[stiff hearth]

we can barely handle one!

i want Pfhor to fight

[burnt nebula]

The tech can be durable but that doesn't stop it from getting dirty, half burried and covered in weeds and grass... Nature is relentless like that especially given 100 years.

[fresh viper]

honestly, i was hoping the first team opening vault 7 would "unleash" smaller level compilers across the map

[stiff hearth]

I like the idea, more of them being a much greater threat to show the power discrepancy between a runner a MJOLNIR Battleroid

[urban hornet]

Yeah I didnt know anything about the game but I stumbled upon this video and its the reason I bought it

[stiff hearth]

marathon protag could take them on like nothing, we need 3 runners for a chance

[fresh viper]

also, walking into a room and SEEING the UESC struggling against one would just add to the terror of them

[forest gate]

Except at the end of the day the security officer used guns just like us, being a badass doesn’t add a 100x multiplier to your gun.

[stiff hearth]

no, but it means that you can endure a significantly larger amount of damage that utterly annihilate runners

also, dude was like dual wielding zeus rail pistols, and firing rocket launchers, and stuff that we just don’t have

[fresh viper]

i mean the security officer what honestly much bigger than a person, he was as tall as a compiler, and since his guns looked "normal" sized for his scale, his guns were probably much bigger and more powerful

[stiff hearth]

he was effectively a space marine from Warhammer. A corpse infused with incredibly powerful cybernetic technology to make them a true monster

[forest gate]

Weren’t the battleroids meant to blend in?

[burnt nebula]

he was just using the same ammo as everyone else tho

[stiff hearth]

from what i remember they were hidden not blended in but i could be wrong.

[burnt nebula]

same ammo we would in theory be finding in this game

[fresh viper]

its one of those situations where youve really just gotta suspend your disbelief

[forest gate]

Before we get too into the weeds here. I totally understand the intent behind why the compiler seems so much more of a threat to the runners than they did the security officer.

[burnt nebula]

no i will not. it must make sense to me

[stiff hearth]

just ignore them

[burnt nebula]

dont be like that

[forest gate]

I’m just enjoying the logical leaps we need to make to explain these things. Find it humorous.

[burnt nebula]

isnt the compiler hooked up to a bunch of computer systems that you need to shut down? he's overpowered because he's got more going on than the OG dime a dozen compilers

[fresh viper]

reviving a franchise from the 90s is ALWAYS gonna have some weird lore going on, its really just the reality of it.

compilers weren't really meant to be threatening or scary in the og games because you were on level with them in theory

in this game you are a (pretty cheaply made) shell who is MEANT to die

[burnt nebula]

the BoBs could handle the compilers in the OG games

[forest gate]

Potentially this compiler is juiced beyond belief.

[quick pecan]

I miss the popping sound of the vacuum bobs

[fresh viper]

yeah with an army of them with Pfhor tech

[dreamy hawk]

En masse, not 1:1.

But ammo was more effective.

[forest gate]

It’s the Giga-Compiler, John Compiler.

[dreamy hawk]

IMO this S’pht has some ‘Kr buddies that gave them some upgrades.

[burnt nebula]

the fact you need to shut down computer systems to kill the compiler is pretty clear what's going on with him

[forest gate]

John S’pht

[dreamy hawk]

I really want to experience these mechanics first hand. 😫 I don’t know if they’re just mechanics or informative but I wanna play! lol

[plucky sierra]

Unless they’re reimagining S’pht, this S’pht has weapons no other S’pht from the trilogy possesses

[fresh viper]

they are mechanics

[forest gate]

The Ubermensch of Compilers

[plucky sierra]

It’s not a run of the mill Compiler

[dreamy hawk]

But the oracles, for example, were also a mechanic with a lore rationale, so I’m not willing to just chalk it up entirely to gameplay.

[forest gate]

You’re doing some sort of shutdown sequence in the Compiler fight just based on what I’ve seen.

[earnest hatch]

“Do you mind telling me what you’re doing aboard that ship, Master S’pht.”

[forest gate]

“Giving the UESC back their bomb”

[dreamy hawk]

It’s all just the same game. 😫

[forest gate]

Welcome to the eternal recurrence?

[earnest hatch]

I wish I had good video of when the S’pht first appears. It seems like he materializes out of nowhere, as if coming from another place. With the videos I’ve seen it’s hard to tell though if it’s that, teleportation, or decloaking.

[stiff hearth]

iirc they do that in the og games too

and they fire green blasts from their “torso” which seems to be the same thing as in this game but more beam like

[dreamy hawk]

S’pht teleport. And disintegrate. Pzzzzt.

But there are also cloaked S’pht iirc.

[earnest hatch]

The bubbles it shoots is a lot like the original S’pht attack. But the beam is new.

I think they did a good job translating the OG gameplay into a boss battle.

[stiff hearth]

well, if they were keeping this thing locked up in a vault, my own guess is this would’ve been more of an inportant sample rather than just some random basic one, especially if the UESC is trying to reverse engineer Jjaro tech

[earnest hatch]

I still think it’s getting summoned from another universe.

[plucky sierra]

They fire fusion bolts similar to the Zeus Fusion pistol, and they can home depending on the compiler, the beam and bombs are either reimagined weaponry or evidence of a different than normal compiler

[dreamy hawk]

Do we know why it was there? Other than to “consume?” Like, was it locked in as a specimen, or did we just walk in to where it was doing its thing?

[plucky sierra]

I think it’s just wandering around and the UESC find it and contain it to Vault 7

[stiff hearth]

to my understanding it was locked in a vault

[burnt nebula]

then why are there computer terminals in there that we need to shut down to kill it?

[earnest hatch]

The players follow a green ghost ball to a room. The Compiler seems to materialize out of nowhere. And don’t forget there is this thing in a green box that helps us defeat the Compiler.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1210811652853731408/1490714505955774524/970938AE-0B8F-40FF-B962-B78241D8F8D4.jpg?ex=69d50f92&is=69d3be12&hm=6ff0446737f7450d14fde5d99a0771dbb6d43a2e832cc3fabec162318c5bac63&

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1210811652853731408/1490714521025777804/53850FC5-2FB7-4036-9CBB-FDABF8D3AB02.jpg?ex=69d50f95&is=69d3be15&hm=5d908f23915dbc04d9b8d6e29285b76c8cc3e3fbeda79b136a9b4b7bf8be2207&

[earnest hatch]

We enter the symbols in the computers to release the thing in the green box. It then gives us the power to do damage to the Compiler.

[plucky sierra]

The UESC contained it somehow

[dreamy hawk]

I still don’t know wtf that is. 😂

[plucky sierra]

They’re in every vault and lower a UESC barrier

[plucky sierra]

Toland the Shattered

[burnt nebula]

its attacking us tho lol

[dreamy hawk]

The green box?

[earnest hatch]

I still think it’s a S’pht outside of its shell.

[plucky sierra]

Yes but those terminals are all over in all 6 vaults for UESC Barriers

[plucky sierra]

We know what those look like, they’re fleshy brains

[earnest hatch]

But not the thing in the green box, iirc.

[dreamy hawk]

And I’m still not going to say it’s not. I’m squinting at Sasquatch photos here. 😂

[forest gate]

Another timeline perhaps?

[burnt nebula]

nah in the compiler fight the team needs to shut down computers linked to the compiler like one is for his spine etc.

[earnest hatch]

Perhaps.

[plucky sierra]

Those computers are in each vault

[earnest hatch]

Then what’s the thing in the green box?

[burnt nebula]

i need to go check now, yall are confusing me lol

[dreamy hawk]

Lemme just launch cryo and we can go look.

[forest gate]

S’Kryptonite

[plucky sierra]

Shutting down the computer terminals lowers UESC containment to let whatever is in the box help us

[earnest hatch]

You can see a still here #📚marathon-lore-discussion message

[dreamy hawk]

“See.”

Gaslighting mf’er.

puts on glasses and squints

[forest gate]

I mean you can see it, just not clearly and in any detail

[dreamy hawk]

We need to go in game and capture our own photos.

[earnest hatch]

I think it sort of looks like this thing in this Craig Mullins art. I always thought this was an interpretation of what S’pht might look like.

https://marathon.bungie.org/story/CM_macaction.html

[forest gate]

Looks like bones inside a green gelatinous cube to me

[dreamy hawk]

Aspic?

[earnest hatch]

I’d be down for such an adventure. Although I’m not sure if I’d be willing to grind ten hours or get in there.

[forest gate]

D&DxMarathon

[dreamy hawk]

The blur does resemble them a fair bit. It’s what comes to mind for me, too.

[earnest hatch]

That’s true too. Still begs the question, what’s its role in defeating the S’pht?

[forest gate]

Collagen, the compiler’s only weakness.

[dreamy hawk]

Pairs well with vinegar imo.

[forest gate]

Maybe the security officer had hella lip filler and that’s what differentiated him from modern runners.

[dreamy hawk]

That’s why the helmet has the cutout it does.

[plucky sierra]

But we’ve seen pictures in terminals of them

They’re little brains

[forest gate]

Gotta see those lips, maybe he was born with it, maybe it’s maybeline

[dreamy hawk]

In the OG games? Because if “yes,” then I’m pretty sure there are a ton of variations in appearance. Even the SO looks different between each piece of chapter art.

[earnest hatch]

Might be an artistic reinterpretation? The Marathon doesn’t look like a big potato anymore, for example.

[plucky sierra]

Of an “uncased” S’pht

[dreamy hawk]

I think I can picture it, but as much as I lean on the OG terminals, I don’t think I would as confidently for visual materials. Too much variation in other areas to trust all of it imo.

[earnest hatch]

You: 🥔
The guy she tells you not to worry about:

[forest gate]

I feel like the S’pht are a race of flashers

Flying around always ready spread their robes

[dreamy hawk]

No longer Rated T for Teen.

[earnest hatch]

How else can they give you their goo?

[forest gate]

They can keep their goo to themselves, thank you very much!

[dreamy hawk]

Now Rated NC-17. Keep going.

[forest gate]

S’pht Chan uwu

[stiff hearth]

https://tenor.com/view/mararthon-hero-forge-heroforge-spht-spht-compiler-gif-14332230167196324711

[dense tendon]

id always thought that was the mjolnir holding the cranium and spinal column he'd yoinked out of a guy/pfhor.

[dreamy hawk]

I always had the same thought but I believe it’s been stated that was supposed to be a S’pht.

[dense tendon]

maybe it was a s'pht skull and spine.

[stiff hearth]

Well it makes sense since the S’pht are basically just brains at this point

[plucky sierra]

They’re not

[stiff hearth]

they are

[plucky sierra]

A codex entry mentions everything, even the cloak is a mix of organics

[stiff hearth]

they are basically just brains in jjaro cybernetic bodies

that is not to say that jjaro tech isn’t semi organic

but the part that is og s’pht isn’t much more than a brain in a machine

[eternal shell]

a three quarterlings borg you say

[plucky sierra]

They aren’t, they’re cybernetically altered, not fully cybernetic

If they were just a brain they couldn’t reproduce, but M2 mentions that they can

[dense tendon]

the s'pht seem to have somewhat mutable anatomy. considering the flickta are offshoots of their biological progenitors and the s'pht'kr are so vastly different.

[eternal shell]

https://marathon.bungie.org/story/terms/m2/M2.03.1.1.1.gif these creatures, are they s'pht too?

[stiff hearth]

according to a search

The S'pht consist of extremely complex brains carried in floating cybernetic bodies

[stiff hearth]

those are spht yes

[dreamy hawk]

So in NuMarathon the S’pht are more biological than mechanical.

[stiff hearth]

i was trying to find that pic

that is them outside the cybernetic shell

[plucky sierra]

They’re a nigh indistinguishable mix of both

[dreamy hawk]

Synthetic, as opposed to being more like cyborgs in the OG lore.

They were floating brains. That is no longer the canon as we’ve seen.

[karmic lagoon]

Tick milk. Did I read that codex right

[plucky sierra]

They were that way in the og games too

I’ll have to find the terminals that touches on biology

[dreamy hawk]

[SORE]: Under scalpel you see, they are organic… Augmented with cybernetics, but… but to a lesser degree than one would assume.

[SORE]: It's— It's hard to comprehend the intricacy of their biology… purpose-built and defined… inside and out… to function in… They function in ways we can't begin to map. Their organs… Their nervous system… Systems! Their entire biological make-up is akin to a complex— a network of connections and… and drivers, servers, operating mechanics… it's all so technical and precise…

S’pht actually sound like a really close analog to Shells, now.

[eternal shell]

so the cybernetics are organic and the organics are cybernetic

classic s'pht

[dreamy hawk]

Yeah.

[plucky sierra]

The F’lickta (or a common ancestor) were taken and “uplifted” into the S’pht

Cybernetically and biologically

[stiff hearth]

then yeah these are very different spht maybe even a new 12th clan

or it is artificial

[dreamy hawk]

The OG terminals iirc do suggest that at some point cybernetics are added as a part of their birthing process. Born organic and then uplifted.

[stiff hearth]

what if Seki reverse engineered a spht

[dense tendon]

jjaro-tech done gave em a prosthetic wacker and babychute combo like freaky cyborg slugs.
jokes aside this is tryin to force a square peg in a round hole. their machine bits were made by ancient alien gods, which took em from slimegina trolls to sapience. to the point they think its impossible to think without cybernetic augmentation, making the pfhor strange meat abominations, akin to how we would view a grotesquely deformed sphinx cat that could speak fluent french.

[plucky sierra]

That’s from xenobiobsy, a S’pht from the attack

[dreamy hawk]

We do have a “new” 11th clan.

[plucky sierra]

We’ve had 11 clans though

[stiff hearth]

that’s why i said 12 to distinguish. it has been like 700 years so this new compiler could be very different

[dreamy hawk]

#📚marathon-lore-discussion message

Scrimshaw and Pfhorrest did some math last night.

[dreamy hawk]

Yes. But not the original 11.

[sinful hamlet]

Man the lore is so deep I thought Spht were just compilers

[stiff hearth]

because the og trilogy they were those brain weirdoes. Something is different now. more evidence of being an alt timeline/universe

[plucky sierra]

K’lia’narhl feels more like a title of the S’pht’kr than anything

[dreamy hawk]

Compilers are what the Pfhor forced them to be.

[stiff hearth]

yeah

[dreamy hawk]

Scroll down a little, they refine a bit iirc.

[stiff hearth]

pfhor came around and forced them into multiple cyborg bodies

[earnest hatch]

Actually we realized it’s not a new eleventh clan. Klianahrl is just another title for the Sphtkr. So still the original 11.

[stiff hearth]

also tried to control them via truly brutal means

[dreamy hawk]

#📚marathon-lore-discussion message

[plucky sierra]

Yea so still 11

[dreamy hawk]

A new name, OK. I’m claiming partial credit.

[sinful hamlet]

Back to Youtube I guess

[dreamy hawk]

And I did put new in quotes. “New”

[dense tendon]

point im tryna make is i dont really think the sphts cybernetics are something we can conceptualize as just mechanical, or metal, or clearly not integrated.
the mjolnir is never depicted with visible cybernetics either, and his augs are of the same source, so safe to assume theyre of similar nature.

[forest gate]

I’ve run out marathon lore content to watch

[dreamy hawk]

I agree with the first half, I don’t think we can comfortably assume the second as easily, especially with Nona’s story.

[forest gate]

Nona 🤔

[stiff hearth]

i found a 4.5 hour long vid about the ARG seen that yet

[dreamy hawk]

https://codex.cyberacme.systems/entry/co-evolution-1-5

[plucky sierra]

S'pht'Lhar, S'pht'Hra, S'pht'Nma, S'pht'Kah, S'pht'Vir, S'pht'Yra, S'pht'Val, S'pht'Shr, S'pht'Mnr, S'pht'Yor, and S'pht'Kr.

[sinful hamlet]

Which makes wonder how did Nona found such precise information about Bernard Strauss

[plucky sierra]

There doesn’t seem to be any difference in the og clan names

Except honorifics like K’lia’narhl

[dreamy hawk]

SekGen probably made the battleroids. And I’m not certain that’s Strauss in the story; that’d make him positively ancient in human lifespans.

[forest gate]

Yep, I’ve read it before.

[dense tendon]

i mean they make it a point to never show the mjolnir with any overtly mechanical bits. even his bones are shown as just normal bones.
but also, both depictions of the s'pht'kr are wildly different in incompatible ways with any depiction of an augshucked regular spht.

[dreamy hawk]

He also never suspects anything for the longest time, so it’s a valid point.

[forest gate]

Maybe he put Jarro tech inside his own body

[latent python]

Or maybe he's been in cryo for a long time?

[sinful hamlet]

Yeah I agree who knows how old Bernard is

Mida #1 agent he’s so goated (except the Durandal thing)

[dreamy hawk]

Cryo by the time of Marathon was still pretty novel iirc.

[eternal shell]

strauss was in the room when the jjarro said "bubba you gotta nuke this spot in mexico"

[dreamy hawk]

Maybe but Occam would suggest a second individual is easier than a nigh immortal man.

[eternal shell]

he was inspired when bill instantly agreed and didnt ask for any details

[latent python]

Strauss is a vampire

[eternal shell]

source: i saw it in a dream

[plucky sierra]

Bill Clinton is Strauss confirmed??

[dreamy hawk]

Actually probably.

[dreamy hawk]

There are no jokes I can make that won’t result in some kind of repercussion and I’m mad you put me into this position.

[plucky sierra]

Puts “Durandals humiliation” in a whole new light

[dreamy hawk]

Stooooooop. 😂

[sinful hamlet]

An assumption but there was this short where a guy explained that dying on Tau Ceti is exciting. He said he helped with Martian settlement which was hundred of years ago. I think cryo sleep existed since the 2090-2100.

[latent python]

Now I'm imagining Durandal in a blue dress

[haughty sapphire]

Where are the runners consciousness being stored? In orbit? Why doesn’t the UESC just blow it up

[dreamy hawk]

Ahhh I don’t think he did. I think he talked about how exciting it would be to be a pioneer. Let me see if I can find it.

[sinful hamlet]

Blowing up an officially non hostile Sekiguchi infrastructure would be bad

[sinful hamlet]

Yeah let me check too lmao maybe my brain is fried

Lies in the lore chat cannot be

[dreamy hawk]

https://codex.cyberacme.systems/entry/expedition-manifests/luca-caruso this one?

[haughty sapphire]

Sekiguchi is already committing a hostile act by entering a locked down star system, it’s off limits and they have the authority to enforce it

[dense tendon]

like the s'pht'kr cannot be made from the same biological base as the rest of the spht, is my point.
which considering theyre uplifted from an ancestor of the flickta and the flickta are stated to have evolved to prioritize genetic diversity in their strange eggvomit mitosis reproduction through what is essentially communal inbreeding of a species that doesnt seem to reproduce sexually...
i dont think the spht as a whole would be capable of fitting our understanding of how a single species works. like itd be impossible to taxonomize individuals as being the same species as each other, let alone their clans or whatever.

[plucky sierra]

The corps have legal salvage rights to be there

That’s why the UESC can’t kick them out

[dreamy hawk]

We see Orion explicitly reprimanded by the admiral for even considering striking corporate assets. Neither side has the full legal “right” to anything really.

[sinful hamlet]

It’s all about deniability. You can put an infrastructure that is technically not illegal according to the treaty and UESC can’t do anything about it

“Come back with a warrant”

[stiff hearth]

that’s why they send us

[plucky sierra]

The S’pht as a whole seem to have divergently evolved following their civil war

But they’re still all the same

[haughty sapphire]

Ohhhh makes sense now

[sinful hamlet]

Its definitely Val Cole but not this log but yeah I’ll drop that lol

[plucky sierra]

But the enslaved scout compilers are slightly different than the enslaved Lh’owon compilers that are slightly mostly different than the free K’lia compilers

[dense tendon]

quasilegal. cuz the corpos have those "rights" under the assumption that the colony is dead.
imagine if the people who built your house decided you were dead while you were at work, and you came home to them tryna yoink the copper cabling out of your walls.

[dreamy hawk]

Oh I’ll read that one.

[stiff hearth]

we see the S’pht’kr and even then they are brains in pods just differently shaped ones

[plucky sierra]

This one

https://codex.cyberacme.systems/entry/expedition-manifests/dr-valentin-cole

[stiff hearth]

so they were’t too different i think. this new wave seems different for sure though

[dense tendon]

yes, but its the brains that are differently shaped, not the jars.

[haughty sapphire]

You’d think that the presence of runners using Sekiguchi proprietary biomata that are planet side would be enough probable cause to implicate the company in violating UESC law

[plucky sierra]

Seki sells biomata to anyone

[eternal shell]

new theory: s'pht brains fold like origami, so a lot of shapes are available (also, bonus brain wrinkles from all the folding)

[dreamy hawk]

Even the UESC uses SekGen Shells.

[stiff hearth]

also the shells disintegrate so can they really collect true proof if said proof turns to nothing?

[plucky sierra]

Same with CyAc housing our neural sync, they can’t do anything against CyAc probably due to some legal liability release

[haughty sapphire]

That’s my point, if they’re allowing non sek employees to use their shells and go surface side on tau Ceti that would implicate them in allowing it to happen

[dense tendon]

i still think the jjaro augs are less visible than you guys are positing. that the source organisms are even less than the appear.

[stiff hearth]

granted Traxus has legal salvage rights and UESC is still denying them access

i do not think UESC cares about the actual laws

[plucky sierra]

Civilians can buy shells, shells are like cars, Toyota doesn’t get punished for a truck being used in a crime

[stiff hearth]

but it iirc it is revealed in logs in cryo that the UESC operation out here was FUNDED by traxus

so who really knows

[dense tendon]

again, you cant "salvage" stuff still in operation. thats jus called theft.

[eternal shell]

left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing, i bet

[stiff hearth]

they have LEGAL salvage rights to reclaim THEIR PROPERTY

This is directly explained to you by Vulcan

[haughty sapphire]

It’s more like they’re knowingly providing those cars to people who are going to commit a crime

[earnest hatch]

Yeah, but most of it is actually NuCaloric property.

[stiff hearth]

“oh they could be lying” why bother you as a runner cannot do anything

[dreamy hawk]

Toyota.

[plucky sierra]

But they retain plausible deniability

[dreamy hawk]

Shells are the Toyota Hilux of the Marathon universe.

[latent python]

Is the Hilux really the crimiest car

[sinful hamlet]

Traxus was a major investor. They own stuff here and it’s their drills that carved out Deimos

Shadow wars needs deniable means I guess

[stiff hearth]

yeah it is an interconnected mess

[dreamy hawk]

The Hilux is a popular vehicle for modifying and putting a big pew pew on the back, used by militias and insurgents world wide, to the point that iirc Toyota has gotten in trouble for essentially enabling terrorism.

[burnt nebula]

I dunno if they can. It's experimental tech, and the public aren't really happy about it from what I gather in the lore society sees it as inhumane/immoral. The corpos are still working on proving it's value to society and gaining public approval.

[stiff hearth]

like yes it is nucal branded stuff… that traxus funded

[latent python]

I would put forward that the Cybertruck is a crime against nature

[haughty sapphire]

But in this case it’d be like a cargo ship is parked at a port in the Middle East and you can see Toyota employees off loading them instead of sneaking them in because how are the runners/shells minds being transfered/teleported if there’s not a ship with the servers not in orbit in an already locked down star system

[plucky sierra]

Have you seen the biomata marketing? It’s to consumers, not corps

[burnt nebula]

You sure that's not just the cats?

[sinful hamlet]

In the vandal codex log it shows that theyre even used in sport competitions

[plucky sierra]

Yes

[dreamy hawk]

Everyone is operating under pluasible deniability, UESC and corps, because the moment they stop they suddenly have to start answering questions they don't want to have to answer. No one is forcing the other side to answer questions, either, because that'd force their hand, too. Essentially.

[burnt nebula]

Fair enough. I could have swore I saw a data entry about the corpos talking about it not being accepted by society yet

[forest gate]

If I somehow buy an MP5 are H&K responsible for what I do with it?

[latent python]

I hope that the story is that the Equanimity gets here and UESC feels emboldened to start forcing questions to be answered

[burnt nebula]

That's sick lol. People literally dying so that a fake version of themselves can do better at a sport is some dark stuff lol

[haughty sapphire]

If they had a proprietary caliber of bullets you could only purchase from them, yes

[forest gate]

Why?

They sold me the bullets, I didn’t state who I was going to shoot with them

[haughty sapphire]

They only have the means to provide you with the tools to commit a crime with their product

[dense tendon]

because they think the colony is defunct and theyre reclaiming their investment from this failure to honor the terms of this investment which are "we, the corpos, lease you, the colony, equipment and supplies so that we can profit off your continued existence." if the colony is still operating like the UESC's presence indicates that it CANNOT be devoid of life, then this is like getting evicted from your company owned apartment for a lease violation of being jobless cuz you were unable to show up to work one day cuz some pfhor broke into your house and shot the rest of your family.

[stiff hearth]

it is not operating

[dense tendon]

not at a profit, no.

[stiff hearth]

it takes two seconds to walk around the surface to realize that it’s been abandoned for like 100 years. The colony is not still functional so that does not matter at all.

[dense tendon]

but theres clearly still people there.

[stiff hearth]

there are no colonist operating it is not working or functioning. Where are you even getting this from? This is like the stupidest argument I’ve ever heard.

[dreamy hawk]

It's definitely not operating, but the UESC claims jurisdiction for their investiagion, which is legally tenuous at best.

[stiff hearth]

there are not that’s the major mystery. They are all gone.

[forest gate]

An MP5 is a proprietary design, I still could slap someone the head with and H&K would not be liable for that.

[sinful hamlet]

I don’t see the argument. Colony failed, I get my stuff back

[stiff hearth]

Every colonist is MISSING

[latent python]

There's one person there, RIP Song

[dreamy hawk]

That's what the coprs say. The UESC says "we don't know why they failed and we need to make sure it's safe before you muck anything up."

[forest gate]

This is the crux of limited liability

[dense tendon]

ah, then its even more simple. the colonys been murdered, the cops are investigating, the repomen are tryna yoink shit out of a cordoned crime scene.

[latent python]

Yes

[eternal shell]

and whoever it is at the anomaly that is still mid-explosion

[forest gate]

RIP to a real one

[latent python]

It's the guy from the trailer, still exploding

[dense tendon]

either way, this shit is a clusterfuck of people who dont give a damn about the actual law.

[eternal shell]

also the cops are definitely not going to tell people what happened there from the looks of it

[sinful hamlet]

Words

[haughty sapphire]

I’m not saying I agree with it, I’m just wondering why the UESC doesn’t just blow up whatever ship in orbit is housing biomata

[dreamy hawk]

Yeah, this is probably the simplest way to put it. lol

[stiff hearth]

except again, it’s way more complicated than that and the UESC are illegally blocking people from coming here. The UESC has NO JURISDICTION out here. they are not investigating. They are trying to get their hands on Jjaro tech 100%.

[forest gate]

Cause traxus might pull their funding or CyAc might release footage of UESC attacking a random ship without provocation

[sinful hamlet]

It’s just if Sekiguchi says you blew up their ship that was used to produce the shells of the ship crew (a ship you allowed btw) it will be big legal trouble.

[stiff hearth]

you might be surprised to learn that the united earth space council‘s jurisdiction end in orbit of earth. Mars isn’t even theirs iirc

[dreamy hawk]

Neither do the corps. TC law is entirely governed by the contracts the UESC and corporations wrote. I forget which codex entry says it (or was it the ARG)? The Corps also don't have jurisdiction. It's entirely a contract dispute.

[dense tendon]

so did you miss the part where i said everyone involved is disregarding the law or did you somehow assume UESC isnt included in "everyone involved"

[stiff hearth]

again, it is literally their property that is on the surface of the planet, and they invested actual money into it

[dreamy hawk]

Can you point to where that's stated? This contradicts what I believe to know.

One sec, I know where to look.

NAME: UESC ROLE: Interplanetary governmental / military alliance JURISDICTION: Earth, Luna, Mars, Inner-Sol Planetary Space, Tau Ceti IV IDEOLOGY: Mutual defense alliance of democratic states SIZE: It is estimated that the UESC employs 0.138% of the population of the Sol system

https://codex.cyberacme.systems/entry/uesc-casualty?search=0.1

UESC explicilty does have jurisdiction on TCIV.

[forest gate]

Doesn’t Vulcan say it to us

[dense tendon]

cuz last time i checked, funding paramilitary operators to conduct guerrila warfare in the interest of protecting corporate interests is hellaciously illegal no matter who these mercs shoot.

[dreamy hawk]

I dunno but the codex entry doesn't ^