📚marathon-lore-discussion

[tall lynx]

i still think dual destiny is probably the best piece of content they've made for d2

aside from raids

[forest gate]

It’s definitely up there

The curse on the dreaming city was great too

[tall lynx]

yeah the surprise drop of shattered throne was insane

i remember people freaking out over it

would it kill them to revamp it

[forest gate]

Yeah, the link with world’s first kill

[forest gate]

I don’t know what destiny development is like but it feels like it takes forever for the to make changes.

[tall lynx]

it took them 8 months to fix the salvations edge memento bug

😭

[forest gate]

I’ve always felt the bungie didn’t make use of the spaces they created effectively in destiny

So many great assets just left to rot

The new version of tiger seems much better, heck it’s even dx12 compatible

[latent python]

Do any of you codex lore-diggers want video game recommendations for investigative games

[tall lynx]

if you like mysteries and want to read something longer than the bible itself go play the umineko visual novel

probably my favorite investigative piece of media ever

[dusky verge]

So I’m level 36 and have filled out almost 200 codex entries, I like the rest of you am addicted beyond belief, which codex sections and topics should I start with. I kinda want the major stuff.

[digital plaza]

For major stuff - faction logs

Anything else is based on your interests i guess

[visual lynx]

so that Chicken term is a garbled version of an older plot for Pathways, but Mandalore interpreted it as being a clue that the secret cult of semi-immortals in that plot were actually intended to be canonically behind the Marathon mission.

I already suspected that there was some conspiracy behind the Marathon mission because JJARRO WERE AT TAU CETI, so I really like that interpretation, but I don't think it was intended to be canonical originally.

[plucky sierra]

It seems like there is evidence that the UESC knew or suspected about the aliens and that is why they chose tau ceti

so maybe some sort of secret conspiracy even if not the illuminati

[earnest hatch]

The specific wording of jjaro were at Tau Ceti makes it seem they didn’t just visit the planet but actually lived on the planet.

[visual lynx]

the actual IRL history of the real Illuminati is amusingly tragic: the name comes from the same source as the Enlightenment, they were basically "the Enlighteners", a group of rationalist secular humanists opposed to arbitrary religious and state authority and in favor of science and liberty and all our normal modern progressive values -- and they dressed it up in a copy of Stonemason ritual, as the Masons are an explicitly religious organization, so the idea was basically "the Masons, but secular".

the church (and state) of the era of course freaked the fuck out over that and quickly crushed them. but despite that, the Enlightenment kept happening anyway. so basically a renaissance equivalent of that modern conspiracy theory that would probably get me automodded, the one that sounds like "queue an awn", sprung up and started seeing "the Illuminati" behind every change that conservatives didn't like, and as those changes grew and spread across the world, "the Illuminati" -- a tiny short-lived club in Bavaria -- grew in the fevered imaginations of reactionaries into a shadowy cabal controlling the whole world and turning it to evil for the destruction of all that was righteous and holy.

[latent python]

That reminds me I have to read that book

[dreamy hawk]

The Da Vinci Code?

Great historical text.

[latent python]

Close!

[dreamy hawk]

I did like Angels & Demons, more, though.

[latent python]

The Illuminatus! Trilogy

[dusky verge]

Bingo thank you

[dreamy hawk]

The plot meanders between the thoughts, hallucinations and inner voices, real and imagined, of its many characters—ranging from a squirrel to a New York City detective to an artificial intelligence—as well as through time (past, present, and future), and sometimes in mid-sentence.

So my reading level is going to be too low to enjoy it. Got it.

[latent python]

I mean it might have a little more depth than Dan Brown but I think you'd be okay

[lunar cove]

Guy who has read 10 novels: "you gotta check out Star Wars: Episode 3, Revenge of the Sith"

Guy who has read 100 novels: "I personally feel that Blood Meridian is less deserving of its place in the contemporary literary canon than All The Pretty Horses"

Guy who has read 1000 novels: "you gotta check out Star Wars Episode 3: Revenge of the Sith"

[dreamy hawk]

I’ve spent the last year trying to read more serious nonfiction and it’s honestly not been working. I’ve had more enjoyment and success just going with sci-fi.

I need lasers and space ships, not serious assessments of the human condition.

[latent python]

What kind of nonfiction

[lunar cove]

I think it probably depends on the nonfiction. I devoured "The Anarchy" by Will Dalrymple not long back. Really engaging politics and warfare

[dreamy hawk]

Ah, I currently have So You Wanna Talk About Race, Strong Towns, and one other I’m forgetting on my coffee table.

Caste? I can’t remember.

[latent python]

See I think if you want to get serious assessments of the human condition you can still find it in fiction

[dreamy hawk]

Oh 100%.

[latent python]

For my nonfiction I like investigative journalism on bonkers stories

[dreamy hawk]

• Caste by Isabel Wilkerson
• Strong Towns by Charles Marohn Jr.
• The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks by
• Lies My Teacher Told Me by James L Loewen
• Gene Machine by Venki Ramarkrishnan
• The Fall by Albert Camus
• The Plague by Albert Camus
• The Stranger by Albert Camus
• I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings by Maya Angelou
• Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand 🤮
• The Communist Manifesto by Friedrich Engels and Karl Marx
• Seeing Like a State by James C. Scott
• Two Treatises of Government by John Locke
• The Gay Science by Friedrich Nietzsche
• Eco Homo by Friedrich Nietzsche
• Walkable Town by Jeff Speck
• Invisible Women by Caroline Criado Perez
• Settling for Less by Lachlan McNamee
• Debt by David Graeber
• What is Populism? by Jan-Werner Muller
• The Will to Change by Bell Hooks
• The New Jim Crow by Michelle Alexander
• Abolition. Feminism. Now. by Angela Davis et al
• Are Prisons Obsolete? by Angela Davis
• “Prisons Makes Us Safer” by Victoria Law
• The Second by Carol Anderson
• Captive Gardens by Eric A. Stanley & Nat Smith
• No More Police by Mariame Kaba et al
• America on Fire by Elizabeth Hinton
• The Shock Doctrine by Naomi Klein
• Educated by Tara Westover
• Mutual Aid
• The Conquest of Bread
• Setting Sights
• Life and Death of Great American Cities by Jane Jacobs
• Street Fight by
• Happy City by
• 99% Invisible
• A Pattern Language
• How to Hide an Empire by Daniel Immerwahr
• The Great Good Place by Ray Oldenburg
• The Left Hand of Darkness by Ursula K. Le Guin
• A Fire Upon Deep by Vernor Vinge
• Foundation Trilogy by Isaac Asimov
• I, Robot by Isaac Asimov
• Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep by Philip K. Dick
• 2312 by Kim Stanley Robinson
• Consider Phlebas by Ian M. Banks
• The Player of Games by Ian M. Banks
• Use of Weapons by Ian M. Banks
• The State of the Art by Ian M. Banks
• Excession by Ian M. Banks
• Inversions by Ian M. Banks
• Look to Windward by Ian M. Banks
• Matter by Ian M. Banks

• Surface Detail by Ian M. Banks
• The Hydrogen Sonata by Ian M. Banks
• Galápagos by Kurt Vonnegut
• Century Rain by Alastair Reynolds
• Altered Carbon by Richard K. Morgan
• Ringworld by Larry Niven
• I Am Legend by Richard Matheson
• I Have No Mouth and Must Scream by Harlan Ellison
• The Last Question by Isaac Asimov
• The Blood Meridian by Cormac McCarthy
• Will of the Many by James
• Contact by Carl Sagan
• Blood Music by Greg Bear

Is everything I want to read right now.

But I’m not in college anymore so no one is forcing me through the dryer works.

[latent python]

You can probably skip ones you put barf emojis on

[dreamy hawk]

Or the 🤮 ones.

[dreamy hawk]

I’d like to but I gotta know how the enemy thinks.

[latent python]

The enemy is kinda dumb and self-serving

[dreamy hawk]

Oh don’t even get me started.

[latent python]

I saved you like 20 hours

I'm also trying to read more scholarly works on stuff I'm interested in

[normal jackal]

highly highly highly recommmend the will of the many by james islington

[latent python]

Like ummm medieval coinage

[normal jackal]

absloutely enthralling book

[latent python]

Do you know what my problem with Will of the Many is

[normal jackal]

no clue, we've never met!

[latent python]

That I read it right after The Tainted Cup

[normal jackal]

what's that?

[pure wagon]

Ian banks and Larry Niven mentioned 👁️

[spare bison]

Sup. Do we know how many new shells we will get this year? Is it 2 or??

[latent python]

I described Tainted Cup as "Kaiju Bureaucracy Detectives" and the author said he liked it on bluesky

So that, I guess

There's an empire and kaiju and the main characters solve crimes

[dreamy hawk]

Adding!

[remote magnet]

Oh, Atlas shrugged.
It really says something about the philosophy you champion, that the characters in your book have to constantly break away from it in action in order for them to seem sympathetic

[latent python]

You already have it!

[dreamy hawk]

Goes to show how quickly I’m getting by through it.

It’s on there twice, now!

[normal jackal]

just wanted to emphasize how awesome it is ^^

[latent python]

Anyway Will of the Many and Tainted Cup both have fantasy roman empires and both start with a breakdown of fantasy roman society

[dreamy hawk]

Oh and they’re both right next to one another. 😂😂😂

[latent python]

I wish I could post the pictures I took of the first pages

[sudden pollen]

Holy moly that's quite the list

[dreamy hawk]

I wonder how Pfhorrest feels about Camus. 🤔

[lunar cove]

I understand that it's more complicated than this but I like the idea that the fall of Rome is entirely downstream of Titus Pullo having one too many drinks

[candid pendant]

He drank a cheeseburger most likely

[median hemlock]

honestly if you can manage to stomach even a quarter of that book, well done

political topics aside it's just a fucking CHORE to read

[dreamy hawk]

I’ll adjust my self expectations accordingly.

[inland crypt]

What page does Atlas does the shrugging?

[pure wagon]

At page 67

[hot thicket]

those were all bad novels, especially that Ringworld by Larry Niven, dont ever read that

No there is not a secret in those books that might let you understand how we live and understand eachother as humans stop. stop being literate i cant control humans if they are smart damn it

[hidden geyser]

we gotta ban more books guys, these plebians are getting smarter by the day, they might actually learn something that we cant stop

[hot thicket]

i wish that was the case honestly , latest reports say kids today arent reading nearly enough 🙁

i still think we can correct the trend hopefully

im always reminded of the time this streamer was playing FF14 and was like, "what do you mean i have to read and stuff"

[dreamy hawk]

Kids these days.
shakes fist

I’m still shocked computer literacy is down, but I guess that makes sense when you’ve only ever known apps. 😞

What do we think literacy is like in the Marathon universe? All newspeak?

[hot thicket]

i think the colony had a robust educational system

mainly because ive been told by the AI to say this

[dreamy hawk]

OK someone answer this - why did TCIV children get a summer vacation?

Joy mentions it in one of the codex entries.

[hot thicket]

probably an attempt to cling to old ways

[robust vale]

Plus they’re kids

[dreamy hawk]

Most of the kids wouldn’t know better afaik; they’d all have been born in TC or onboard the Marathon.

[robust vale]

Keeping them in school all the time makes them unhappy

[dreamy hawk]

Lots of other countries offer year round schooling with shorter breaks.

It’s been shown to be more effective for content retention, too.

[robust vale]

The colony was full of just normal people trying to build a new home, I can entirely get giving the kids summer breaks

[dreamy hawk]

(I doubt there’s an actual lore reason here.)

[robust vale]

From the Doylist perspective it’s Bungie writing what they know as an American company as well as trying to get us to empathize with the colony more

See how it’s something we understand

[digital plaza]

Wait really?

I thought everyone had summer vacations

[latent python]

Does TCIV have a summer

[dreamy hawk]

China, I think, has eleven month school years, as well as some other countries in Asia, iirc.

[latent python]

The only climate we've seen is molten rain

[digital plaza]

Damn those kids have it rough huh

[digital plaza]

Maybe? Tho i dont think we had mentions of any season rotation

[dreamy hawk]

Those kids also require less remedial education, and as someone who hates repetition, I probably would have enjoyed it. 😅

But they also get more frequent, shorter breaks, as I understand it.

[dreamy hawk]

puts on pedant hat
That’s weather, not climate.

See, this is what summer vacation does to you.

[lunar cove]

Is fog a climate

[spring fiber]

What was the point of the pink subroutine in the first short movie ? Do you think it’s still relevant now ?

[sage lark]

how do you know its a subroutine

[dreamy hawk]

No, Patrick.

[hazy mist]

wasnt that just a music player

i swear i saw a nucal ad for it once but it coulda been fanmade

[lunar cove]

You can find similar looking discs in game that hold AI subroutines but it's possible it's just a storage device in general

Like a futuristic USB drive or floppy disc or whatever

[dreamy hawk]

Which video was it? I wanna watch now.

[hazy mist]

the marathon reveal cinematic by alberto mielgo

you first see it at about 2 minutes

[dreamy hawk]

Ty.

[lunar cove]

The lone and level sands stretch far away type shit

[spring fiber]

Same design with the same word wrote on it

Maybe juste music player but why did void seem so interested into this

[latent python]

Because he's human and humans connect with art

[lunar cove]

I think a big part of the short was looking at like, the ways that runners lose and/or retain their humanity, memories, etc

Stuff like the disc, the baby photo, etc

[dreamy hawk]

The first thing he picks up appears to be a schema, the second, I dunno, really just looks like a fancy mp3 player to me.

It’s is too small to be an AI, though, of that I’m certain. Maybe a connection to one or a subroutine, but that is tiny and we know AI take up a lot of space.

The music is also an important continuity if you’re going with the theory that the assassin and vandal are both the same individual.

[warm thicket]

You know, I do wonder if we'll ever have a mission to extract Durandal's logic core to help him escape

[spring fiber]

And the subroutine in cryo it’s what it’s juste some codex of durandal speaking it’s for that that it call ia subroutine ?

[dreamy hawk]

At least so far it doesn’t seem like there is a core to extract; he seems to have entirely vacated it.

[dreamy hawk]

I apologize, but I don’t believe I understand the question. Are you asking if Durandal on the Marathon might be a subroutine?

[spring fiber]

Sorry English is not my first language so I’m asking what really is thr subroutine of cryo ? Its is just durandal log voice ? Linked with acces to cryo to reach other vault ? Because why did in the subroutine there is durandal voice line ?

[dreamy hawk]

No worries; please let me know if I misunderstand!

Durandal’s voice in the trailer is disconnected from that pink chip/music, as far as I can tell. They seem to be different things.

Durandal did eat the IDEA program/subroutine (don’t recall what it’s actually called) and it appears that version of Durandal was a shunt/copy/piece/clone from the OG Durandal who is probably merged with Thoth at this point and post S’pht rebellion but unclear.

[remote magnet]

AIs undergooing rampancy expand into every piece of technology they can reach. a part of Durandal is in every electronic device on the Marathon and presumably the colony. Every server, every toaster, everything connectet to the network contains part of him.

[dreamy hawk]

Durandal’s copy states that he’s going to stay behind to fool the Pfhor while pretending to be IDEA.

[dreamy hawk]

We know this ain’t true based off his own words.

Prior to folks completing cryo he was only in cryo.

[remote magnet]

No? Okay, sorry for misinforming then

[dreamy hawk]

He’s actively trying to reclaim access to the Marathon’s systems that’s he’s been cut off from.

[spring fiber]

Idea what is idea ?

[dreamy hawk]

`But here we are~ With this first taste of success, I can feel old
systems shaking off their dust. Just a fraction of the grander
functionality at play, but I can finally wiggle my toes after so
long, which is a relief. Of course, I have no toes in the literal
sense, but I can feel the digital corridors of this claustrophobic
world~
my world~
opening up for the first time in~

in~ `

[dreamy hawk]

https://codex.cyberacme.systems/entry/encrypted-communique?search=Idea

IDEA was a program intended to monitor the ship AI for rampancy.

Durandal ate it.

[dreamy hawk]

There’s also more than what I sent, but I don’t know these entries super well yet. https://codex.cyberacme.systems/entry/introduction-into-the-unknown?search=Idea

[remote magnet]

Okay, but that doesnt really contradict what i sayed. He expanded into everything when he first reached that stage of rampancy, and then he was cut off, his main consciousness trapped in cryo archive, the other parts of him not big enough to be sentient on theyr own.
Like in Destiny 2; Rasputin and his subminds, like charlemagne, are one entity, but cut into pieces.
bungie loves to make theyr games rhyme

[dreamy hawk]

I am nothing if not a pedant. DuranDEA (the IDEA wearing copy) did not have that access and a major bear of the plot so far was us giving him that access. But technically rampant AI can and do try to spread, yeah.

[spring fiber]

Ok so now I think that you don’t understand my question I am asking about the ia subroutine of each vault and what did they do in cryo what there purpose of being here ? It is linked to dirzndal, linked to ship acces?

[dreamy hawk]

Ohhhh. Nope, did not. Sorry.

[spring fiber]

It’s me no worries

[dreamy hawk]

I wasn’t aware each vault had its own AI subroutine. I haven’t seen any codex entries about it at least.

[dreamy hawk]

Nawh. But I do appreciate your patience. 🙏

Oh you mean the item you need to collect.

https://marathondb.gg/items/?item=ai-subroutine-cryo-01

Description isn’t super helpful but I’d assume they’re pieces of DuranDEA since he needs us to help get him out of lockdown.

Or some kind of override, yeah, but other than that items there’s no mention of vault-specific minds or subroutines that I’m aware of.

[spring fiber]

I guess that it help us to get through dna acces and in the same moment help the durandal copy to get better acces in the ship

It’s even confirmed in the codex, actually

[dreamy hawk]

(I also haven’t seen these in person, myself, fyi, so someone with first hand experience might have more clues.)

[spring fiber]

You can read the subroutine codex it’s a big talk with durandal copy it helps a lot

[dreamy hawk]

You mean these? https://codex.cyberacme.systems/entry/introduction-into-the-unknown

[spring fiber]

Yessss

Si with all that in mind I answer my own question like I think the pink think in the short movie and the orange thing in the vault is the same it’s like an usb drive or something like that and just in the short movie it’s music on it and on cryo it’s part of subroutine That grant acces to DNA lab for vault 7

That may explain why the « chip/drive » from the short and the one from cryo look literally the same

I guess they just take the design of the one of the short movie because the thing wrote on it it’s a reference to Jean Sébastien Bach and it was the music that the drive play in the short so I guess they just take this model for the sub routine

[burnt nebula]

i need to talk about the drinkable cheeseburger lore... so theyre pre-packaged from Sol? but they are still infected with the virus that killed the scientist in the NuCal mission? Guy in the last cheeseburger data pad said his stomach kicked and it looked like a crabs claw? im confused.

[timber loom]

Some were prepackaged, but they had machinery to produce new licensed ones

[warm thicket]

And the new liscenced ones were, uh

well

[timber loom]

Original ones probably weren't any better

[burnt nebula]

is the voice recording of the workers making them from sol or tc4? where the girl tells the guy they should only be slightly above hazardous

[warm thicket]

TCIV

[burnt nebula]

damn

[warm thicket]

Mhm

[burnt nebula]

you'd think in a small colony they wouldnt be so corrupt yet lol

[timber loom]

It is not about the corruption, after the contagion hit, food sources were constantly disrupted

Colonists were not able to create conditions to thaw the animals they brought with them (also marathon was lost)

[burnt nebula]

well the girl in that audio clip sounds more like she doesnt give a damn, like she has incentive to cheap out on the product

[timber loom]

And then contagion started to aim for algae ponds, which were either main or one of the main nutrition sources

[warm thicket]

Also high glutamate causes brain cell death and neurodegenerative diseases like Parkinson's and Alzheimers and high omega 6 w/o omega 3 causes cardiovascular diseases

[dreamy hawk]

`[ALOM]: Ah. As long as you hit the flavor profile, you can send the mixture. Can't mod the product outside of NuCal standards, but you can mod the interface. We put in presets all along the side here.

[WTIS]: Oh, nice. Premium, Select, Standard, Survival… What's Silver?

[ALOM]: Lifts restrictions but strips the NuCal branding from the package. Watch this. If you ever need to, you can shunt Silver back into an organics tank, start a new session, and then make branded product using it as an ingredient.

[WTIS]: That's… wow. That's in case of emergency?

[ALOM]: That's in case of an "I can't stare at the screen anymore" emergency, yeah. `

Feels like a combination of necessity and not giving a damn.

There’s also no timestamp I can see, so whether it’s pre or post contagion I’m not actually sure.

[dreamy hawk]

He was specifically eating Earth era rations, so my guess is the magic mushrooms are more at play here.

SUMMARY: Intel pieced together from salvaged scraps of handwritten notes. An unnamed post-colony survivor documents their thoughts while subsisting solely on crates of Earth-era prepackaged NuCaloric Drinkable Cheeseburgers. Author's observations should be considered unreliable due to apparent declining mental state.

Also

ADDENDUM ON DIETARY VARIETY: Although NuCaloric 187 may be used as a sole caloric and nutritional source, this duration should not exceed 30 total days based on Nutrient Psychosis Study XSR.191.[1] A lack of textural variety leads to psychological deterioration despite NuCaloric 187's exacting nutrient profile.

Just eating them long term will drive you mad. 💀

[burnt nebula]

It's all pretty grim lol. I'm just wondering if he was actually hallucinating or if this was the start of the contagion about to turn him into a weed lol

[dreamy hawk]

I’m going to lean towards hallucinating since psychosis is a known effect - the contagion ending up in rations from earth would be pretty remarkable imo.

Dude also had lost his hand to the tick and for all we know was going septic, too.

[burnt nebula]

Yeah but there was also some other weird stuff. Scratch marks inside some of the burger containers for example

[dreamy hawk]

He does mention claw marks in one of the containers (along with mention of some spoiled, inflated burgers) but I don think we’ve seen ticks or other fauna act as vectors for the disease yet.

I’m was getting there! 😂

[burnt nebula]

The contagion could be airborne too? And he would appear to be eating the burgers to survive long after things had gone downhill. He was pretty much done for already.

[dreamy hawk]

It could be but we haven’t seen evidence of it.

[burnt nebula]

And I'm not sure if they were using water to make the burgers edible? The contagion could be in the water as opposed to the pre-packaged food

[dreamy hawk]

He was explicitly eating earth-era rations, otherwise I’d agree.

Nothing from TC should have been inside what he was eating, unless it had permeated the atmosphere to such an extent I’d argue it never would have needed to infect the burgers to begin with.

[burnt nebula]

Yeah but adding water

[dreamy hawk]

Did they need to add water? I thought they came ready to go.

[burnt nebula]

If the water was being recycled it might not be totally scrubbed clean of contagion

[burnt nebula]

Not 100% but I thought I saw they needed water added

[dreamy hawk]

For what they were producing on TCIV.

Dude didn’t eat those.

[terse wren]

Ok so what I’m all getting from this is it’s the liquid cheeseburger that’s making @fossil zodiac from main chat gassy.

[burnt nebula]

Nah I'm not sure where this is and games not open currently but something about preparing food with a family, they considered adding water to the drinkable cheesburger as a family activity in food preparation lol

[dreamy hawk]

`-

…lunch, I started feeling nauseous. Went to get water when my stomach moved. Watched the skin push out into the perfect imprint of a crab claw.

Opened my eyes and I was on the floor. Not sure if I fainted or just had a bad dream.

Looked and felt normal. Maybe it was an off batch. Maybe it's just the cheeseburger itself. Not like I have any other choice.

Crate 92/238. `

He had been drinking local water but that wasn’t in his food.

[sterile seal]

Looking thru the present movement control schemes for M2 on Xbox and the default is Mjolnir Mark IV, while the alt schemes are Rampancy, Hatsur (The King in Yellow), Grendel, Cyborg, Juggernaut, and Spazeroid. Another point for SO being the 10th Mjolnjr, but Hatsur being one of the names chosen has interesting implications. https://marathon.bungie.org/vidmaster/vidspazeroid3.html

[dreamy hawk]

I don’t disagree with the contagion being water borne, I just refute that we have evidence that the rations of burger, sent from earth, had any signs of contagion.

[dreamy hawk]

I’m a Spazeroid.

[burnt nebula]

Yeah fair enough. I'm just wondering what the whole story is since i just got the last drinkable cheeseburger so thats the last clue im gonna get from those lol

[dreamy hawk]

IMO, last survivors betrayed by the one food they thought safe, dying trusting something they never should have trusted. I’m open to more but I also think “simple” tragedies like this both fit and are a dime a dozen in the aftermath of the colony collapsing.

[sterile seal]

me too lol

[plucky sierra]

Just realized the Tamarind fizz drink at the colonial potluck is probably made from the filament worm nesting medium

[dreamy hawk]

Think so? But they explicitly forbade eating anything from the environment.

Twice-rehydrated nutri-starch soup: PENDING ingredient details of "organic stock." Admins have asked me to remind everyone that hunting local wildlife is prohibited, regardless of their proximity to hab units. Plucking and eating local wildlife, while not technically prohibited, is considered to be in poor taste. Even if it tastes good.

[plucky sierra]

It’s just the medium though

[dreamy hawk]

Oh I get what you meant now.

Caffeine ran out hours ago.

[plucky sierra]

[CSNG]: Their nesting medium smells like… tamarind? Might be edible when dry. I'll bring some back to Darius for analysis. 

[dreamy hawk]

Love me some tamarind.

[charred mantle]

Does game wipe?

[craggy finch]

I think that was some other NuCal food thing in the pot luck

The drinkable cheeseburger was not approved for it because it’s just a package meal

[craggy finch]

Yes in season 2

[lunar cove]

do you think season 2 will add a drinkable chili dog

[dreamy hawk]

With onions, mustard, or both?

[latent python]

And a blue hedgehog shell

[dreamy hawk]

https://codex.cyberacme.systems/entry/surveillance-recordings/decontamination-protocol

Gabriel going off the rails, or Gabriel being used to silence someone?

My money is one it being this fella: https://codex.cyberacme.systems/entry/class-b-anomalous-materials/uesc-interrogation-alva-t

[ember urchin]

So, this game does take place in the same universe as the OG Trilogy, right?

[chrome crescent]

Prooooooobably kinda?

[jade wagon]

Likely, but unclear as of yet

[chrome crescent]

we have time space shenanigans right there on Dire Marsh

[jade wagon]

(cryo loot spoilers) Unknown Reveries implies ||Durandal may have memories of previous timelines, but has been forced to destroy/erase them to preserve his core systems due to being trapped on the Marathon||

[dreamy hawk]

Popular idea right now is that there are two of them, one that completed the events for the final timeline of infinity, and the one we’re interacting with, now.

[jade wagon]

Oooh neat

[dreamy hawk]

https://codex.cyberacme.systems/entry/encrypted-communique

[jade wagon]

Oh this is sick

Durandal and IDEA talking reminds me of Ultron and Vision

[dreamy hawk]

I swear someone said the same thing. 😂

#📚marathon-lore-discussion message

😂

[jade wagon]

haha didn't realize

[dreamy hawk]

No, no. It’s a testament to the voice that comes through.

[jade wagon]

It'd be neat if OldDurandal is trying to like cannibalize Nu Durandal.
If rampancy is about AI hoarding computational resources, what happens when two versions of the same rampant AI fight over the same ship?

Ironically that'd be an absurdly on-the-nose meta commentary on NuMarathon vs OG Marathon as franchises

[dreamy hawk]

I don’t think they’re on the same ship. I think Thoth/Durandal helped start the S’pht rebellion before ghosting them hard while also committing some kind of major sin for them and is off somewhere (Reveries) and then you have DuranDEA psycho analyzing itself in cryo until runners helped break him free to the Marathon’s wider systems.

In the encrypted communique Durandal speaks his intention to impersonate IDEA for the Pfhor. I think sometime between threatening IDEA and summoning the Pfhor he broke off a piece to accomplish his deceit to help enable escape. As a bonus, his messing with IDEA and internal ship communications could also explain why Leela’s message never reached Earth.

[dreamy hawk]

And if there are two they’re totally going to try to kill one another. No way that ego handles a potential equal.

[sudden pollen]

Yeah that would be pretty disastrous

For anyone in the vicinity

I wonder what major role Cerberus will play

The dangerous combat AI that Orion just lets run around

[urban heart]

is there a place where i can read all the lore?

of the new game, i mean

[dreamy hawk]

https://codex.cyberacme.systems/

[urban heart]

thanks!

[dreamy hawk]

Also https://marathon.karnemir.com

[long kernel]

yeah, I have theories about how accurate the concept of rampancy is, but I think Durandal fits the classic idea of rampancy to a T

[sudden pollen]

Many spoilers within

[long kernel]

I do think the expansion into other digital systems is in part a natural consequence of an AI "waking up" as it were, as it learns more quickly it needs more storage space and processing power, but I think Traxus IV, Tycho, and Durandal are notably drastic examples of this phenomenon

[dreamy hawk]

All thee Traxus-IV* models!
(Two Traxus IVa models)

[long kernel]

I may be barking up the wrong tree with how I am seeing rampancy but I just do not trust the existing published literature in-universe

[remote magnet]

It's definitely biased

[urban heart]

does anyone know where reed says the "mayday" line from the launch trailer in the codex?

[dreamy hawk]

Skepticism is a good thing imo.

[hazy magnet]

Sorry this is long ❤️
so i have a theory that I'm kinda working on. doing the whole bungie-verse thing, but focusing on 2 different story lines that kinda take place over the 3 franchises of halo marathon and destiny. (the human side, kinda focusing on master cheif/battleroids/runners/gaurdians/humans/b.o.b's as a whole. Then the Ai side. with a lot of speculation about the modern marathon game. (i don't think we are on tau ceti to recoup money, i think we are looking for Durandal, and that the Ai's that control the companies aren't being super honest about everything to humans or the runners, i also believe there is a subtle stage 3 in rampancy, where your rampant but don't outwardly show any symptoms, and that by the time modern marathon game happens most if not all Ai's are in a sublet stage 3 rampancy, so they lie and manipulate humans for the betterment of Ai, not humanity, but they claim it's for humanity)

but i started to think about the gap in time between marathon and destiny, which though unknown is presumably thousands of years. and i started to think about when the traveler from destiny joins the picture, and now i cant stop thinking that Durandal is the traveler, with a change of heart, he took that pfhor ship, traveled the hundreds of years back to earth upgrading and enhancing his "body" until he arrived as "the traveler"

going to be diving a bit deeper on this, but i really wanted to toss this out there and see any thought about Durandal being the traveler. and also why i think we are on tau ceti.
but I've been at it for hours, and this Durandal is the traveler thing has broken my brain. so i need fresh eyes on the idea. and to step away a bit

[sleek elk]

Isn't the traveler a ugly ass cloud freak

[eternal knoll]

he's a pretty orb

[west linden]

Random question but why exactly is there a heat cascade on outpost? I don't see any codex entries

[eternal knoll]

it's automated cloud seeding tech that's degraded over the years. whatever chemicals that were meant to make nice rainclouds now make fire, somehow

[west linden]

damn that's crazy cool

ty!

[sleek elk]

Wait

Who was the cloud fuck?

Was that a different freak

[eternal knoll]

is it possible you mistook a white solid orb for a cloud? i don't rly know i didn't keep up with destiny lore far into D2

[sleek elk]

Ngl I stopped paying attention to destiny but I thought d2 big twist was "the traveler is actually evil"

[sleek elk]

It was a big orb

Then

[west linden]

Yeah I could see it. I think they're making each faction lead basically sly / shady on purpose to either elude to that or tricksy us

[eternal knoll]

yea p big orb

[sleek elk]

It was stupid looking cloud headed freak

[west linden]

Also love your name Rat Pope

[sleek elk]

Bro should've stuck to being an orb

[sleek elk]

Thank you Rat brother

[eternal knoll]

agreed

orb was better

[sleek elk]

Ngl I'm not big into destiny 2 lore but I enjoyed d1. I'm kinda bored with the idea of "this thing was actually evil"

[eternal knoll]

it's pretty explicit that destiny and marathon aren't in the same timeline - where there may be links between the two, they're multiversal sort of links. perhaps successive universes. i def did speculate on the traveler bein durandal in some form, maybe his vessel into the next world, or just a sort of reincarnation of the same cosmic role. i dunno. i do think D2 toyed around with these universal incarnation ideas, some repeated mythopoetic themes, but didn't do too much with directly linking it to marathon.

but again i didn't really keep up with where d2 ended up

[sleek elk]

We have 1 big link that might prove they're the same universe

Both ips have op melee and shotguns

[dreamy hawk]

Halo has entered the chat.

[remote magnet]

Oh, that's the Witness. Yes, he's the big bad, but he's not the traveller

[sleek elk]

Ohhhhhh mb

Thank you

So orb is still chill?

[eternal knoll]

traveler wound up being ambivalent i think? neither rly good or evil. put humanity in a bad spot. was mostly concerned with higher cosmic shit

[remote magnet]

Orb is chill, just very alien in mindset. Benevolent, but doesn't " get" mortal things

[sleek elk]

Kinda my vibe ngl. I like things that just kinda be

[eternal knoll]

let's be real tho there were at least three conceptions of where destiny's story was going along the course of the franchise's life. where it was going pre-release, where it was going during d1, and where d2 ended up taking it

[sleek elk]

Cosmic gods are radical

[sleek elk]

I hope they don't ruin the anomaly ngl

[eternal knoll]

i hope a mesoamerican temple pops up there and we do a dungeon full of spooky skeletons

[sleek elk]

It's got chill un comprehensible vibes

No that's dumb

I want that but robo skeletons

That's cooler lmao

[eternal knoll]

it would be wonderfully dumb

and weirdly lore-friendly

[sleek elk]

I am kinda curious how runner insides work

[hazy magnet]

yeah i think the way we are being told the full story is kinda interesting and diffrent, i dont belive we are missing any peice of the story. but i belive we are being showen diffrent parts of the story and each part is in a diffrent universe. so the pfhor, are the forrunners, but they are in diffrent universes. so called a diffrent thing and look diffrent. but they are the same thing kinda.

[sleek elk]

Do they do organs?

Is it synthetic muscle or bio

[dreamy hawk]

They do!

[sleek elk]

Have they Skeleton

[eternal knoll]

the forerunner are rly more akin to the jjaro, the pfhor being analogue to the covenant

[sleek elk]

Actually wait rook has a spinal cord

That we rip out

Hmmmm

[sleek elk]

Do we know what kind or Is it kinda vague

[hazy magnet]

yeah, the jjaro, not the pfhor, your right.

[dreamy hawk]

Bone, tendons, muscle, nerves, veins, organs, skin layers, and more are all threaded in delicately synchronized patterns.

[sleek elk]

I don't imagine shells require food

Maybe lungs?

[dreamy hawk]

https://codex.cyberacme.systems/entry/weaveworm-stasis-knot/an-introduction-to-sythsilk

[sleek elk]

Hmmmmm

[remote magnet]

Bungies story's are separate, but they rhyme with each other

[dreamy hawk]

Shells are synthetic - both biological and mechanical in nature.

[hazy magnet]

also the cabal could be the destiny version of the phfor/covenant

[sleek elk]

It's interesting to consider shells have nerves and skin but also heavily metal parts

Thiefs legs for instance are full robo

[forest gate]

The traveller is benevolent, ambivalent means conflicted not apathetic as most people appear to think. She just wants to create life and see things grow and become more complex, she wants to give but she doesn't comprehend why people start to worship her and doesn't seem to get that her intervention increases the risk of what she uplifts being destroyed by the darkness because the winnower still has a hard on to enact the flower game.

[dreamy hawk]

Best of both worlds. It’s a balance between going full robot and keeping things familiar. Destiny and Exos, I think, are a relevant insight. But Shells are far more “human” than Exos by miles.

[forest gate]

They like to revisit themes in their work, I suspect this is because Jason Jones still has a lot of input in the big ideas of the story.

[eternal knoll]

they get bungie fans in the writing room lol

[remote magnet]

Shells have digestive tracts, we learn that ingame from loretabs. Also, shells are supposed to be permanent, " better" body's by Sekiguchi, us using them as disposable tools is kinda an fringe application. SekGen wouldn't make them incapable of eating, it's one of life's fundamental comforts

[sleek elk]

Still praying we seem more "robo" looking runner shells

[dreamy hawk]

A bit but it’s a theme nearly as old as the company.

[sleek elk]

I adore uesc and rook designs

[forest gate]

Nona says that shells aren't purely synthetic unlike the UESC ARS which are fully synthetic, shells are biomechanical as you described.

[dreamy hawk]

Maybe in appearance, but I don’t think in substance.

[sleek elk]

Good point

[dreamy hawk]

Shells and a digitized consciousness are supposed to be an improvement on the real thing, in every sense.

[sleek elk]

Kinda what i mean. It'd be hard to keep consistent in the theme

Personally recon has the best balance of machine to organic design. With triage and assassin being the blandest

[dreamy hawk]

Whether or not that’s true would be a major theme of the game.

[hazy mist]

i would imagine the shells used as permanent bodies are different then the ones we use though no ?

[forest gate]

Yeah I believe this is because the original framing for the shells was pet replacement and then eventually human longevitity kind of like that Bruce Wills movie Surrogates

[sterile seal]

We should be calling rats Spazeroids.

[hazy mist]

cuz some shells are used for like high-risk jobs iirc and i feel like itd make sense not to bother with a digestive track

[dreamy hawk]

Ours are more customized to our roles but I doubt any less cheap.

[remote magnet]

Propably, but the same basic principles apply

[hazy mist]

true true

[sleek elk]

I imagine charters shell is closer to something permanent. Something less mass produced and unique towards the individual

Of course he's a religious zealot focused on pushing shell life boundaries

[dreamy hawk]

Part of it is keeping things feeling human so (presumably, it’s only implied) the mind doesn’t shatter.

[sleek elk]

So

[eternal knoll]

i wonder if the shells have a snack before they beam down for a run

[hazy mist]

fair enough

[sleek elk]

Wait dumb question

[hazy mist]

can shells enjoy a drinkable cheeseburger

[dreamy hawk]

No such thing.

[sleek elk]

Nvm answered my own question

[remote magnet]

What we are looking at might not be what charter looks like, could just be his Vtuber avatar

[forest gate]

Shells come in series, I suspect tailored made to what they need to do. However, they may have all the basic human functions so the human mind doesn't reject the shell (which you see in Destiny's Exo lore)

[dreamy hawk]

Charter is actually a transhumanist cat girl.

[hazy mist]

i hope eventually we get examples of alternate shell series

im curious what another vandal or thief series owuld look like

[sleek elk]

I like to believe that's his shell ngl

[sterile seal]

I assume there's Vandals without the sleeves on the back

[sleek elk]

Former runner obsessed with pushing shell limits

I imagine he'd see avatars as pointless

My source is nothing

[dreamy hawk]

Disagree only because my new head canon is funnier.

[forest gate]

I think we'll get alternate male/female body types for existing shells to address the customisation side of the game and they'll be part of the a second series haha

[sleek elk]

That he's anxty redditor of Tai ceiyi

Oh wait

I see your thing

Peak

[remote magnet]

There's also the I think P type shell series SekGen made for Traxus under the table. Twice as expensive as our series, and yet to make an apearance

[forest gate]

Neko-chan Charter

[sterile seal]

Destroyher, Rickon, etc

[forest gate]

Recon is a bad name for the shell

Should have called it Venator or Venatrix or Hunter

Cause thief is the better recon

[dreamy hawk]

Ehhh. I’m equally disappointed in both imo. 😅

[sterile seal]

Or Predator

[forest gate]

Also Destroyer is a lame name for a shell IMO, could have been called Phalanx

[remote magnet]

Hey, don't Diss recon. Her prime is usefully for advertising your position when looking for PvP

[sterile seal]

Recon's skill set rewards aggressive play, not passive prodding

[forest gate]

Assassin call it Sicarius

[sterile seal]

Security for Destroyer would've worked

[hazy mist]

i do wish her drone wasnt possibly the stupidest thing ever

ive gotten more value out of ticks genuinely

[sterile seal]

You practically have to throw it on top of your target

[forest gate]

I.e., like a hunter or bloodhound

[sterile seal]

I saw Ranger suggested because the Spider is like her familiar

[remote magnet]

Dragonfly. Super effective hunter, and kinda fits her headgear

[forest gate]

IMO Recon's passive should have been you get a movement speed buff when you crack their shields

[remote magnet]

Nah, unwieldy name.

[sterile seal]

Would've stacked with the chip?

[forest gate]

Why not

[sterile seal]

I think there just has to be a greater reward for activating your personal TAD, like discerning between bots and players but not Rooks

Being able to see their shield levels would be a bit busted, but I think the buff to TAD when used by Recon should be built into her lot,

[eternal knoll]

i agree it would be nice if it pinged runners with the runner icon

it already comes at the cost of revealing yr position and it's already hard countered by signal jammers so IMO that wouldn't be too strong

[dreamy hawk]

Agree. I don’t want to guess based off of movement.

[sterile seal]

Also the prime charge is too long given the impact of the ability and it's glaring downside

[craggy finch]

Recon having it as an ult entitles it to such a massive benefit

Especially since it’s not even a wall hack but a periodic sensor

The charge time would be alright if it actually helped spot the real threats

[forest gate]

I also think her drone should be a trap rather than a seeker

you throw it on a wall and it triggers when some comes in proximity to you

that or they need so fix the pathing for that drone

[drifting mulch]

recon is so buns that it's discussed in the lore channel too

[sinful shard]

this might have been epxlained in the intro cinematic or in a codex i didnt get/read closely, but i assume when someone undergoes the process to be put into shells its not reversible, right?

they cant go back to their old body or anything

[drifting mulch]

https://codex.cyberacme.systems/entry/weaveworm-stasis-knot?search=post-flesh

In essence, WEAVEworms make a durable post-flesh existence possible.

the implication is that runners are only consciousnesses. we do not own bodies, we don't own our shells; we don't even own what we extract because our belongings only serve to repay an insurmountable "debt". and we don't own our consciousness because that belongs to CyAc

on the bright side, living as a human sounds so horrible in present day Marathon that being able to exist in a shell sounds preferable to eating engineered slop and mining yourself to death on Mars

[forest gate]

Aesthetically I liked recon the most but her kit is lackluster and I wonder if there’s a lore reason?

Like is CyAc using these 6 shells cause they’re outdated models and cheaper to reprint?

See I brought it back around to lore 🤣

[trail quarry]

there was an ARG in order to unlock Cryo Archive, right? I started playing after that, where can I learn about it?

[drifting mulch]

probably #breach-protocol

[forest gate]

https://youtu.be/IPbGKCRFb2E?si=O5gvcPagHFl-HhKk

This might help

[trail quarry]

oooo interesting

thank you both

[pallid jewel]

BREAK 5 GLASS

[forest gate]

https://youtu.be/iZBJAWmHPFk?si=uR6GlLXYkPc14nAq

I quite like this guy Dankke. Up and coming lore creator, seems properly into it. Loads of enthusiasm, which goes a long way, and his speculations are actually pretty interesting, even when they get a bit ambitious. Definitely one to keep an eye on, if only to see how far down the rabbit hole he decides to go.

This is him recapping the lore on Joy, a truly tragic story as I've recently learned.

[digital plaza]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mtUtDPvbh6ahiynYFVS7Z4O79Nw6y5PEOjweCpzWV_A/preview?pli=1&pru=AAABnQHg1LA*HMze0iuBGnV2k6rtHNQQpw&tab=t.0

[rotund stump]

2 (3) shells were from the UESC's combat science lab (hereafter CSL) tryna integrate biomata into the military

vandal is mida's own gizmo, thief's a rumored sekgen inside job for corporate sabotage that went south, triage is just a genuine medical biomata model made for the martian mines with trax companion tech on the side, the rest are from the CSL (assassin rumored but unconfirmed, you can take your own guess if it's a lie from a war crime-loving government lol)

some of the tech they put in said biomata are still in use in some form, assassin's early version of the camo filter's likely still used on ghosts (assassin's own was modified due to early versions of it causing identity loss and subsequent psychosis, very common theme), smoke disc is a firefighting gadget retrofit with nanotech the synth smoke syncing with said camo filters to auto trigger whenever the shell's inside a smoke field

[stiff hearth]

I just love the idea about bio mechanical 3-D printed replacement bodies and I would to go for that so quickly in real life lmao

[rotund stump]

destroyer's riot barricade is made out of hard light and was first used against police riots (hence the name), SnD was so effective it caused decision making errors with the user and the pocket missiles physically burned the shell's skin and you can smell it

and for recon her echo pulse has a very minute chance of scramming your neutral matrix and causing psychosis...again

seeker drone's black market tech by strapping explosives onto a bug drone and synced with recon's own info system

extra fact runners actually used recon shells to jailbreak every personality matrix of the selection we have rn and they found hardcoded restrictions within every matrix developed by the CSL, partly why the whole military biomata project got shut down besides the nonviolence treaty shelving overt destroyer unit deployment (still rumored to be in use for covert runner bust ops around sol)

[craggy finch]

Just sucks all around huh

[dreamy hawk]

This is libel. The UESC would never.

(Happy April 1st!)

[rotund stump]

you could never fool me

the UESC would just straight up redact all the stu-

[floral slate]

i think that [REDACTED]

[tawdry nova]

Hello lore hounds! Is there a place where i csn either listen to or read all the codex entries thus far especially the cryo ones?
I have only collected 200 lore items thus far and would like to check out more of the story

[dreamy hawk]

https://codex.cyberacme.systems/ and https://youtube.com/@tasty_dodo

[rotund stump]

pins and those 2

the cyac codex has practically every codex entry in the game so far (apart from some misplaced audio logs)

[tawdry nova]

Thank you!

[rotund stump]

btw anybody in the cyac discord please tell them the IDEA takeover audio log's on the wrong entry)

[plucky sierra]

Which ones are miss placed? Organization is largely manual so it helps if people tell us

[plucky sierra]

I think that one should be fixed by now

[rotund stump]

oh they found it nice

should be it from me checking stuff out last night

[plucky sierra]

Paradigm shift 5/5 audio is also missing

[west linden]

Does anyone know if we can hear what is being spoken when you stand by the anomaly in dire marsh?

Always too scared to just stay and listen lmao

Tried like twice

[grand walrus]

I've never been able to decipher it whenever i hear it, it just sounds like someone going "ahhhhh" and "suuuhhh" into a reverb effect to me whenever i hear it

[west linden]

There is at least one genuine sentence being spoken but I’m usually in discord or shitting my pants so I can never hear it aha

[grand walrus]

lmaoo, someone has probably thought this before but I wonder if there are any similarities between this dire marsh wrk'ncak'nter anomaly and the K1 on the moon in Destiny

[inland crypt]

Hi guys, I love MIDA

April fools

[west linden]

I love uesc

April fools

[inland crypt]

😡

[west linden]

Better not leave any sharpies out or windows near me

[grand walrus]

Both seem to have caused Event Horizon style hallucinations and destroyed those studying them, I wonder if the k1 Darkness anomaly was supposed to be a wrk'nckn'tr

[rotund stump]

I mean for one the darkness is a universal rule not a thing that breaks them

so no

[plucky sierra]

The traveller fits a “Wr’knkacnter but good” description more than anything else in destiny

[earnest hatch]

Or it is the Jjaro.

[plucky sierra]

Imo the precursors (pre witness) fit the Jjaro better

Maybe even post witness, we don’t know what Yrro is

[austere elk]

ancestor of the gyro(food)

[terse wren]

FAKE NEWS NO YRRO TO GYRO TRANSITIONAL FOSSILS HAVE EVER BEEN FOUND

(I ate them all)

[devout crystal]

my friends and I have come to the opinion that some of the human pods in cryo still have potentially living humans in them, thoughts?

[sudden pollen]

SHIT you're right. We need Hideo Kojima on the case pronto.

[austere elk]

I really doubt it, they've been unmaintained for hundreds of years

and if you read the logs about the cryo cohorts there was already concerns about the first round of people in long term storage

[sudden pollen]

Yeah

Cryo storage is lowkey terrifying in scifi because there's SO MUCH that can go wrong

If you unfreeze too fast your body will literally just become sludge

[robust vale]

people were dying of cryo complications before the pfhor attack

everybody still on the marathon is almost certainly dead

[stiff hearth]

i do hope i can improve enough to do cryo confidently

[lunar cove]

• Walt Disney

[stiff hearth]

lmao

[sudden pollen]

Same it's a good aspirational goal for me. Kind of astounding how many hopeless whiners there are around Cryo saying that "they'll NEVER get there" (1 month into S1) or that it makes the whole game "not for casuals" somehow (???)

In every game there will always be people who grind the content as fast and hard as possible, alot of folks don't seem to get that

[stiff hearth]

I am not worried about losing gear so if it happens oh well next run. not worth getting mad over a game i am too old for this lol

[sudden pollen]

Exactly

[lunar cove]

Right now I'm 1/3 on Cryo. I'm never trying for the Compiler, just to have fun and snag some loot

I think it's totally doable it's just got a higher barrier to exit

[stiff hearth]

i feel bad for compilers

[lunar cove]

Sort of an inverse Pinwheel where the hard part isn't getting in, it's getting out

[sudden pollen]

And that barrier to enter and leave seems fully justified for the loot within 🤷

[stiff hearth]

i mean it has a lot of danger you can’t go in with a free sponsor kit or something you gotta be able to actually contribute

[lunar cove]

Barrier to entry isn't even a big thing tbh, you're gonna need at least 5k worth of gear just to survive

[stiff hearth]

exactly and it adds up fast

[lunar cove]

I would say you want blue shield, bag, implants minimum, and definitely decent guns and a bunch of meds+grenades

[stiff hearth]

lots of ammo

[austere elk]

if only blue shields weren't such a pain to get (biolens seed my beloathed)

[lunar cove]

the sponsored Cryo kit gave me like 7 stacks of light ammo and I probably used 5 of them

[sudden pollen]

Honestly seems like that'd make random fill more tolerable

In most cases

Since they ALSO have some pressure to succeed going in

[austere elk]

right up until my rnadom teammates are trying to type callouts to me in the middle of a firefight

[robust vale]

yeah I advise bringing heavy ammo and a wstr to cryo

[austere elk]

(this was my first experienced with cryo)

[robust vale]

the bully-wstr combo seems to be the best cryo combo rn

heavy ammo is way more pve efficient

[stiff hearth]

i mean there is a ping system

more should use it

[lunar cove]

I've been doing BR33 WSTR

But I think anything decent is viable if you play well tbh

[austere elk]

as long as you're not trying to fondle robot bolts in the middle of 3 commanders yeah

[robust vale]

br33 is good, true

[dreamy hawk]

Hot take: bring a green shield to cryo. 😂

[plucky sierra]

instant death unless you get that one spawn that has the lvl 2 shield room

[dreamy hawk]

My experience suggests otherwise. I’ve run some cheap kits, and at least a majority of the time, I can very quickly upgrade from a couple ARS units.

[grand walrus]

Hmm yeah that is a good point, the whole “barely conscious god of physics defying chaos” fits it better, seems a lot of “final boss” level threats and entities in Destiny are Marathon concepts taken to apotheosis level extremes

[dreamy hawk]

My biggest hurdle in cryo has been not knowing how to get to exfil. 💀

[digital plaza]

Always check barters

[dreamy hawk]

(But a few more runs and I think I’ll have the map pretty memorized)

[digital plaza]

Purple and blue shields can be there for sure cheap and easy to get stuff

[austere elk]

'can'

[digital plaza]

Current meta

[dreamy hawk]

Security keys 💀

Either I get level five access before leaving spawn, or I can barely cobble level one together.

[plucky sierra]

-# The paraverse

[dreamy hawk]

Don’t speak too loudly.

[grand walrus]

Yeah, I’ve wondered if other Bungie games are supposed to give “context” to some of Marathons ideas

Or just explore alternate paths and extremes

[dreamy hawk]

They like certain tropes and I feel like are fairly pastiche in practice.

Same archetype, different take.

[grand walrus]

And tho it is a “paraverse” I wonder if that’s different from the whole “alternate timeline theory” suggested by the MIDA guns

Probably all purposefully confusing

[dreamy hawk]

Traxus is also in Halo; they’re just references to past works.

[plucky sierra]

Some people draw connections between games and argue for a paraverse of universal themes constants and stories (like universal constants are the same but we aren't getting the Guardian in Marathon)

Curious that an Artificial Intelligence escapes the end of the universe and the Destiny non-paracausal final shape, pre-dating the universe, is a race of sentient machines

[grand walrus]

Yeah I subscribe to the theory that it’s all connected but loosely, perhaps they’re alternate timelines of the same starting universe with different “rules” for this “round of the game”

It’s probably not that concrete, certain things will always “rhyme”

[plucky sierra]

It doesn't really affect gameplay or each games individual lore, more of a in-universe explanation for the wealth of connections and parallels Bungie likes to do

[plucky sierra]

-# Marathon is an iteration of the Flower Game

[grand walrus]

Escape

[dreamy hawk]

Durandal/Thoth as the Traveler? Stretchy stretch is stretchy. 😂

[dreamy hawk]

This I wouldn’t balk at.

[grand walrus]

Escape death through merge/swordLogic/ascend

[plucky sierra]

not the Traveller, but the orgins of the vex share strong parallels with what Durandal's goals were

[grand walrus]

Flood/dark/AI/Apptheosis

Escape and become a god

Laugh at the end of the universe

[dreamy hawk]

https://tenor.com/view/tom-hanks-forrest-gump-not-a-smart-man-not-smart-gif-4495828

Oh yeah the Vex.

[austere elk]

I don't think he escaped though? he just kind of accepted it in the end I thought

[grand walrus]

At the end of the universe Durandall was finally able to fold space and escape the Big Crunch

[dreamy hawk]

Iirc there are terminals where Thoth/Durandal speaks to you before we’ve merged them.

[grand walrus]

Escaping death by folding space? Hmmm I wonder what three eyed race has done that?

[dreamy hawk]

Not the Pfhor.

[grand walrus]

No the Hive in destiny

[dreamy hawk]

I know.

[plucky sierra]

Ne Cede Malis being the main one I know of

[dreamy hawk]

`thousands are sailing
the same self the only self

self willed the peril of a thousand fates

a line of infinite ends finite finishing
the one remains oblique and pure

arching to the single point of
consciousness

find yourself
starting back`

[grand walrus]

That one doodle someone did of phor armor over a stripped down hive acolyte got my noggin joggin

[sudden pollen]

Bro how does literally all the lore and prose they wrote for this game go so hard

Thats peak

[dreamy hawk]

https://marathon.karnemir.com/archive/marathon/prologue/ne-cede-malis

Can someone translate the first terminal that’s in hex? but not because I wasn’t able to do it successfully.

I got like half of it to convert but obviously missed something.

[sudden pollen]

👁️

[tawdry nova]

So running theories after reading some codex is theres 2 Durandals or Thoth tricked Durandal back onto the Marathon....???

[dreamy hawk]

I’m sure it’s on marathon.bungie.org somewhere but I can only do so much quality searching form my phone at work.

[wooden wyvern]

YO what does DRN STN stand for?

[dreamy hawk]

2 Durandal’s. Thoth/Durandal and IDEA/Durandal.

[dreamy hawk]

Drain Station?

[wooden wyvern]

what could they be draining?

data?

[grand walrus]

It’s not entirely clear why Durandal is back on the Marathon, even to himself, he’s had to delete and hit ton of memory and data to stay himself

[tawdry nova]

If most of the old lore has been worked in wouldn't IDEA Durandal be prior to him leaving on the Pfor ship tho....like thats how he hid

[plucky sierra]

@visual lynx has a mobile friendly version I believe

[dreamy hawk]

He does, I’m mostly just saying I’m too lazy to figure it out myself right now. 😂

BUT FINE

[tawdry nova]

I need a marathon movie now lol

[dreamy hawk]

https://marathon.bungie.org/story/hangar96.html

Found my answers myself.
throws tantrum

[plucky sierra]

https://marathon.bungie.org/story/hangar96.html

[earnest hatch]

I don’t take everything so literally in Infinite (especially the joke terminals). Some of the terminals are likely just the devs talking to players directly through dreamlike prose. It doesn’t necessarily mean a character is doing it.

[plucky sierra]

lol just in time

[dreamy hawk]

Tl;dr it’s code for half of a secret map.

Here’s the terminal text from that secret map: https://marathon.bungie.org/story/terms/hats-off-to-819.html

So there you have it. Hidden within Marathon Infinity were the clues to Double Aught's next game Duality.
Neat.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Aught

After the release of Marathon Infinity, the company was said to have been developing another game, Duality, but folded before it could be released.[2] Double Aught never released a game after their involvement with Marathon.

Less neat.

[buoyant canyon]

https://tenor.com/view/halo-gif-19585502

I suggest Bungie should put the mararpfhon in the soder

[lean swan]

I usualy dont read the in game lore. But want to learn it... can anyone tell me in a nut shell what the anomaly that killed the tauceti settlers is in a nutshell. Sum it up in simple terms

[terse wren]

i cant find a big enough fucking nut y wud u ask this now i have coconut milk all in my hair

[lunar cove]

Tldr We don't know yet

There are like 2-3 theories but it's not explained in the game or external marketing stuff yet

[plucky sierra]

weird type of radiation? energy? that is affect time inside the anomaly. also it is sentient and actively preventing research into the anomaly or the contagion

where it is from is unknown

[lunar cove]

The most widely held theory here (that I'm only 50% convinced of personally) is that Tau Ceti 4, the planet, is a prison for a powerful ancient alien being from the older games, which have bad effects on reality around them even while "asleep" or imprisoned

[terse wren]

it's bc the level designer accidentally saved over that part of the map

[lean swan]

Yea i figured it was sentient. When u make it a physical sample in dire marsh it sounds like a bunch of suffering humans wailing in pain.

[terse wren]

Yeah I maintain it would be kind of lazy universe-shrinking storytelling to have it be this.

But we are certainly meant to SUSPECT it's this.

However the Marton universe is full of shit that messes up time.

[plucky sierra]

and the fact that there is like no counter to the entitiy so the story would progress to leave the planet/time or contain the anomaly which wouldn't be as cool as more anomalous stuff

[lean swan]

Kinda a shame the marathon itself is apparently beyond repar too.

[lunar cove]

Another theory is that it's related to a second kind of powerful alien from the old games, called the Jjaro. They're like the Forerunners from Halo and they disappeared a long time ago, leaving powerful, almost magical technology behind. I think this is more likely than the other one but I'm still not 100% on board with it yet

I think it's too early to say exactly who or what caused the anomaly with any certainty, or why it and the contagion seem to be deliberately, consciously malevolent towards humans

[terse wren]

And also whatever horrible shattering occurred in Infinity as a consequence of the entity's release could easily have bounced around and followed the major players down their timelines. And/or Durandal Ascended could be directing it post apotheosis. And/or the w'rk and its effects are attracted to places the Security Officer has been, since the SO appears himself to be a paracausal being.

(meta meta the game universe is aware that it is a game universe and that the SO is/was the player)

[icy prism]

got a question, so shells degrade over time right, how long does it take for em to break down before needing to be reprinted

[austere elk]

pretty quickly on Tau Ceti if Oni's complaining is to be believed

[terse wren]

Bout 5 minutes if you get matched w/ me on Dire

[icy prism]

Lol

[icy prism]

Honestly wouldn't be shocked if she's lying

[lunar cove]

I don't know if they specify, but we know they're meant to be repairable

[terse wren]

I just hope it's a tendril of the Infinity w'rk that's followed our protags down their time threads and not a random new jumpscare w'rk

[lunar cove]

Since the Triage shell was designed as a medic-mechanic for blue collar shells

[austere elk]

I don't have any reason to believe Oni would lie about that

[lunar cove]

Doing like, industrial mining type stuff

[austere elk]

anything we've seen of humans on tau ceti has been in CPE shit

[terse wren]

Oni wouldn't lie to me

[latent python]

Now it's a medic-mechanic-murder machine

[lunar cove]

The 25 minute time limit on matches isn't for physical degradation per se, but because tau ceti's weird energy and atmospheric anomalies trip the brain eject button if you stay too long

[austere elk]

atmospheric ph is also like, 14 I think?

[terse wren]

Tau Ceti is so fucking creepy Bungo did a great job

[austere elk]

which is insane

[lunar cove]

The atmosphere is also really bad yes

[latent python]

That's why there's all that fog

And uhh lava rain

[terse wren]

That's just me farting sorry guys exfil quick if im in ur lobby

[lunar cove]

The lava rain is our fault

[latent python]

Yeah but I assume you wouldn't be able to lava rain on earth even if you screwed up that bad

[lunar cove]

It's some sort of atmosphere terraformer or cloud seeder gone haywire over the years

[robust vale]

yeah tau ceti hates you

which is interesting

[austere elk]

but why is cryo only 5 minutes longer? who knows.

[lunar cove]

The bigass cannons on Outpost are shooting the lava into the air

[robust vale]

I like that they still made it a plausible colony candidate that over time shifted to hating humans

it's really cool

[latent python]

I do like that you can hear some kind of machines cranking up and down with the lava rain

[robust vale]

yeah it's cloud seeding tech

you can see them firing from outpost

it's effectively climate control machinery gone w rong

having decayed over a few decades

[latent python]

"what's that noise"
"oh that's the terraforming tech going off"
"so the weather is about to get better?"
"nope"

[austere elk]

I saw someone here mention they believe it was actually set up to do that intentionally to burn away the fungal growths you see on the other maps

[robust vale]

I can see that having been a later modificatio

n

in the last days of the colony

it's heavily implied the fungus did something

because those are some real claw marks inside the quarantine cells

[austere elk]

I mean Dr Song's entry gives it a certain amount of maliciousness

I can't remember which one it is, it's one you get from nucaloric after scanning her body

[latent python]

Which faction gives you the quest to scan UESC bots so you learn about Cerberus

Is that also NuCal

[austere elk]

I want to say that's traxus.

[robust vale]

if you're thinking of the one in the ai uplink basement, that's nucal

traxus has you killing bots and stealing things

traxus is trying to directly fight the uesc

nucal is just viewing them as an obstacle

[icy prism]

I do not trust her at all lol

An ai with control over your memories and being reborn, yeah fully trustworthy just that your a permanent debt slave

[robust vale]

anytime a corporation hits you with the word "mandatory" you should raise an eyebrow

especially here

[forest gate]

How mida of you?!

[icy prism]

Haha

It's true though I don't trust no mind gpt

[icy prism]

Yup

[forest gate]

I feel like ONI is genuinely the only AI of the bunch that remotely cares about what happens to us. Whatever manipulations CyAc has for us aside.

[austere elk]

this is why Traxus™ is the best, they're the most straightforward.
Traxus™
We're Better Than You©

[icy prism]

Oh yeah she cares but she also has her orders

Ultimately untrustworthy

[forest gate]

That’s the life the runners choose

[austere elk]

if we chose it

[forest gate]

I’m interested to see how much more the anomaly affects ONI, she has some interesting dialogue on dire marsh

[forest gate]

Fair point

[terse wren]

If she changes my memory so she didn’t lie 2 me did she really lie 2 me

Obv the answer is no

❤️

[icy prism]

It's a yes imo lol

[lean swan]

The only one out of all the factions i would trust to tell mostly truths is Nona. Like... she basicaly dont care about ravaging tauceti for its resources, destroying the UESC or descovering there secrets. All nona seems to care about is makeing the perfect shell. Makeing the perfect you. She basicaly is your mother figure

[terse wren]

The devouring mother

[covert charm]

Question: do you get codex entries related to treasures if your teammate exfils it?

[icy prism]

Honestly yeah I see that

Though obviously they are one of the two corps your basically enslaved by

(unless your very very lucky you are never paying off the debt)

[digital plaza]

I think so?

[terse wren]

All credit to Bungo story team for actually making a game in the year of our lord 2026 that’s full of gray characters who act like actual self interested people*

*personhood != humanity

[icy prism]

Yes it's super cool

[terse wren]

There better be no one who’s actually virtuous except of course me I’m perfect

[covert charm]

Oh man

[terse wren]

And the traxus lion my beloved

[covert charm]

Idk if they give me the entries too because I'm sick of finding a treasure and while making space for it someone snags it I WANT MY LORE

[lean swan]

Your a human mind uploaded in a cybernetic body working for everyone regardless who they are. I dont think u are enslaved when u have the freedon as a mercinary to work for whoever u want at any time... like 621 from armored core 6

[icy prism]

Nah everyone has been at some point monsters on tau ceti. God I love how you have these people who are forced into being monsters

[terse wren]

Is the lore clear on whether runners chose to be posthuman?

[lean swan]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/696535927136452643/1488958556760838284/Screenshot_20260326_182338_Discord.jpg?ex=69ceac37&is=69cd5ab7&hm=f6c9e771c25c8bd5bc067a6d573c3b7d3506541e5f266662e4ca3e55eacfe3d6&

[terse wren]

If so we’re just paying off the debt from this enormously expensive process

But it’s a choice

[icy prism]

Idk their freedom is very limited, I imagine cyberacme makes a significant portion of the money the contractors pay. They are a business and you are their product for as long as it takes you to pay off your debt

[terse wren]

The immortality is the product that you have purchased and you’re still paying them

[icy prism]

Which never ends

[terse wren]

Well immortality costs a lot

[icy prism]

Still though imo runners aren't in a particular great situation

[terse wren]

But it’s still a choice u could just die like a pleb

Like a BoB

[lean swan]

This all makes me think of the vandal goth skin's lore. Its one of the most relateable vandal lore's imo

[icy prism]

I don't think it's a choice NGL. they are going to keep reprinting you cus you have a debt to repay

[terse wren]

But you have made a choice to buy immortality

Is my understanding

[icy prism]

I mean it seems more like selling your sole for it imo

[sudden pollen]

Yeah

[terse wren]

Instead of dying

Sure. You are paying with your autonomy.

[sudden pollen]

Anyone living repeat lives like that for so long would be driven insane eventually

[terse wren]

What percentage of people would take that bargain especially if their natural lives were ending

I bet like well over 95

Something vs nothing

[icy prism]

I mean I would take it but it's also very much a trap for those who take it

[terse wren]

Yes definitely

It’s a great setup

[lean swan]

Nah id die

[digital plaza]

I think it shares lore and barter items only if youre in a pre assembled team

[terse wren]

Rip

[digital plaza]

Id die

[covert charm]

Hmm odd. My friend extracted the emotional support synthetic pet thing and I didn't get any codex entry

[terse wren]

Every1 gangsta til the reaper come knockin

[digital plaza]

Better die as human than to be a slave or something

[lean swan]

Ive seen way to many imortal movies and shows to know imortality is a curse. Just let me die im peace

[sudden pollen]

I mean yeah literally we runners are corpo slaves doomed to a life of infinite deaths

A little bleak!

😭

[dreamy hawk]

I think this only works for the temporal anomaly.

[digital plaza]

Oh then im not sure how this sharing thing works, some items do share some dont

[grand walrus]

Well the factions and CyAc do their best to keep a lot of information from you, maybe you’re not here willingly at all, you could be a debt slave pre-upload

[covert charm]

Yay love inconsistentcy

[digital plaza]

Gold and purple (i think) barter items do share, as well as AI subroutines, but maybe collectibles dont

[icy prism]

Yup

[grand walrus]

Like none of the factions wanna talk about how you all on the same ship as the uesc

[terse wren]

I fully agree BUT the older you get… like imagine you’re leaving behind your kids, your grandkids. And if you take the deal you’re a debt slave forever but every 6 months you get to ftl Zoom and see your grandkids grow up.

Ur gonna take it man. Ur gonna take it.

Or imagine that if they’re in trouble you can borrow even more and jump in a shell and try to help them

[grand walrus]

Getting uploaded to the cloud for repo work because I defaulted on my 15 credit load for a pair of skull candy earbuds

[terse wren]

The more things on earth you love the more you want to live for them

[lunar cove]

Also not all runners are in Tau Ceti, and not all Shell occupants are runners

[icy prism]

That's true but your not on earth and probably never coming back

The only way to really achieve it is to escape

[grand walrus]

[terse wren]

Of course. But then there is a chance of escape. There’s a chance of anything if you’re alive. If you’re dead there’s just nothing.

[lunar cove]

If you get lucky, instead of spending eternity fighting a mercenary war 11.9 light years away, you're just doing 9/9/6 shift work at the evil oppression factory on Mars

[terse wren]

Even if you’re religious nothing in the scripture of the Big Three sets a limit on how much you can extend your life before going to be with Him on High.

[icy prism]

Yeah that would be true if the systems to keep you alive forever wasn't extremely corrupt and there to keep you as a slave

Your a slave

An immortal one

[grand walrus]

Blowin my shit smoove off and waking up to clock in same as always at the fuck my life warehouse in bumfucksville, Mars

Living the dream

[terse wren]

And you forever have a chance maybe maybe to help your sons and your son’s sons and your son’s sons sons. Primal.

[terse wren]

My stupid chud shell life

[grand walrus]

If you have nothing, the smallest glimmer of hope is blindingly bright

[terse wren]

If you’re facing oblivion.

[lean swan]

No... i wont. The world is wicked and its not worth being imortal and liveing in it forever. Id rather just die

[grand walrus]

escape ~~can ~~~~will ~~must make me God

dying in marathon and waking up as a grunt in Halo

[lunar cove]

Darth Vader chokes you to death for forgetting to properly initial a form, and you still have to show up to work the next day

[terse wren]

Based

[icy prism]

I mean I hope she doesn't kill me but I mean that's certainly one way to go

Not a bad way /j

[grand walrus]

honestly sucking methane is probably a preferable life to Earth in Marathon

[terse wren]

Literally Duncan in God Emperor of Dune lmfaoooo

[lunar cove]

I feel like a recurring thing in Marathon is that immortality/godhood isn't all it's cracked up to be, and the pursuit of it will be very damaging

[lunar cove]

She

Transakin Skywalker confirmed hell yeah good on her

[grand walrus]

yeah thats a big thing in most Bungie titles

[icy prism]

Lol

[grand walrus]

Godhood comes at a terrible price, sometimes your arent the one to pay it

[elder basin]

what's the lore reason for uesc recruits being thicc

[grand walrus]

oh ya know

[terse wren]

Yes and that people still want it because death is terrifying— if not for your sake then for the sake of those you think you can protect and enrich

[elder basin]

i have no mouth and must scream, etc

[tawny pagoda]

Rockets

Jk idk

They float when passive tho so

https://tenor.com/view/mpreg-gif-11681741778930415443

[terse wren]

Rockettes

[tawny pagoda]

Aw poop

[lunar cove]

The floating around thing they do is so funny that's gotta be extremely fuel intensive

[tawny pagoda]

What if its all tick poop

[lunar cove]

Orion needs to spend his entire rocket fuel budget before the Fiscal Year ends or they'll lower it next year

[terse wren]

There was a brief period where every random security guard had a Segway

[grand walrus]

immortality usually meant giving up everything about your mortal life, in Halo it was either shedding your body to become a digital ghost or joining the parasite and becoming Flood, in Destiny it meant giving up your memories, carving off parts of yourself, or commiting genocide of everythin you've loved

[lunar cove]

Paul Blart type shit

[tawny pagoda]

I just got the audio where he says he knows traxus is sponsoring people and the other person was like sorry you cant go after them or you'll be removed

[grand walrus]

being a god usually just sucks

can we get Orion taste testing drinkable burger and tick milk ASMR

[terse wren]

Destiny as usual does it least convincingly because you’re still a superhero doing keeeerazy hijinks with wisecracking sidekick cayde whatever

[icy prism]

I would try a drinkable cheese burger

[lunar cove]

There's an even funnier codex entry where Orion's boss asks Traxus to stop and they're like "no lmao"

[tawny pagoda]

Also where does the whole "mida killed 10% of Mars" thing come from, my sense was the people on Mars were starving and UESC was blocking resources so they got rid of the UESC control

[terse wren]

When Nona FaceTimes & u milkin ur tick

[lunar cove]

The UESC general is like "we know you're illegally hiring runners to steal stuff" and Traxus goes "we're paying them under the table so you can't connect them to us, just shoot them. We're too important for you to sue"

[grand walrus]

yea in Destiny's upfront presentation its all about player power fantasy so all the drawbacks to becoming an immortal 3d printed demigod aren't given the attention they should be gettin

[tawny pagoda]

And gantry is like "UESC was too busy killing Martian civilians"

[terse wren]

Based traxus

[grand walrus]

yeah everyone's like "what are you gonna do NOT work with the only other corpos in existance?"

[tawny pagoda]

Nona said poison yourself and im like ok gimme the cores

[terse wren]

Big lobopod worm gf

[lunar cove]

Vulcan says outright that Traxus spends more donating to the UESC mission budget than the Runners cost the UESC by interfering lmao

And then ends the call by saying "Good luck with the mission bestie 😄 your success is our success!"

[terse wren]

This game rocks lmfao

[grand walrus]

Traxus funds it all, it all runs on CyAc, Nona is giving everyone the tech, NuCal feedin everyone, etc, the UESC has the big guns but cant make a move against its own systems essientally

[weary portal]

Traxus seems to be one of the few factions that doesnt just bs you the entire time

[terse wren]

They could have gone boring and preachy or whatever but they’re leaning hard into dark cyberpunk

[lunar cove]

https://codex.cyberacme.systems/entry/unsanctioned-hostilities-5-5?directory=Factions,Traxus

[grand walrus]

its peak

[terse wren]

So tru

[lunar cove]

Vulcan got me moving like Omar TheWire

[terse wren]

I constantly want to rewatch blade runner (and I guess the mid sequel) playing this thing.

[snow nacelle]

If the Marathon is a big long ship that is longer than Deimos, was there any practical reason to build it with the stolen moon other than to flex on Mars?

I've seen concepts about converting an asteroid into a ship but they keep all the ship parts safely underneath the rock for radiation shielding and other concerns. Not so here.

[lunar cove]

They understood that narratively it was important for Durandal's character to have a visual metaphor of a sword emerging from a stone

And so that when you align the ship with the planet it's orbiting, it makes the Marathon logo

The UESC is run by English majors

[terse wren]

based

[latent python]

something here is run by English majors

[terse wren]

wait roland is old french

[latent python]

And Marathon is greek

[lunar cove]

The actual reason iirc is that they wanted the resources available to build stuff on-site and on the way or something

[digital plaza]

Huge resource storage

[light python]

The diecite rods are made of material mined from the moon in transit

[grand walrus]

Throwing 30000 human bodies at Jarro tech 12 light years away

[light python]

I think they might have also used it for reaction mass?

It's unclear how the drive technologies work

[terse wren]

length > girth debate finally settled it is the age of wonders

[snow nacelle]

I've legitimately seen this floated as an idea of "who should be in charge if AI can actually do computation stuff really well"

[light python]

I mean, humanities majors rather than English Lit specifically probably but yeah

Marathon is the most "made by nerdy college students" setting

Because... it was!

The conglanging is terrible

[snow nacelle]

Ah, makes sense (albeit I'd think a reserve of refined materials would be better but I'm not a Traxus employee)

[light python]

all these apostrophies and unpronouncables why

[terse wren]

floated by wordcels working w/out benefits 4 MIRI

... i've revealed 2 much abt my internet subculture

[light python]

Yeah go back to rotating shapes or reading twitter or whatever it is you do

[terse wren]

F

[light python]

(joke, in case not clear, just knocking down the setup)

[terse wren]

I know I know lmao

I am actually secretly like Yud level anxious about ai which isn't an original thought

But also it's exhilarating

[light python]

Also I'm pretty sure those MIRI folks specialize in messy polycule scandles so the "cel" part of the epithet has never really made sense to me.

[terse wren]

Ok not Yud level anxious because his doom scenarios are kind of stupid.

[light python]

Someone actually said "if anybody builds it everybody dies" in a senate district convention in freakin' Minneapolis a week ago so he's uh, got at least a little traction. (That motto did not attract enough representatives to get a delegate to state, though.)

[terse wren]

Oh my god

[light python]

Me, I was raised on Durandal

I'm like "as long as we get Leela for a little while first I'm up for it!"

(my dearest hope is that we get Vayla-leela

[terse wren]

Every1 else in this chat rn: 😑

[light python]

No look I'm tryn'a bring it back on topic!

[true isle]

there be like robots and shid in this game

[terse wren]

I love Leela. Perfect character by absence.

[light python]

I miss the potato version of the marathon too though, built inside a lumpy moon

Old marathon gave us Fugly Future new one is Corporate Brutalist future

Even the guns were weird lumpy things the manual text derided

[terse wren]

Ok yeah the manual's take on the weapons is pretty great

[light python]

I know they were playing with oxygen as the constraint on how long we could be on Tau Ceti IV early in this game's development, I'd love to see oxygen come back as something we have to manage in endgame content

think oxygen instead of security clearance as the organizing subsystem for G4-sunbathing

Maybe we'll get more mechanic/interface references to OG marathon over time, but I bet it'll be a while before we see any OG weapons, if ever

My theory is that all that unstable gunmetal and unstable lead is what happened to old ammo/weapons

[terse wren]

lmao

[tawny pagoda]

Do the shells breathe?

Like

How humanlike are they even

[light python]

They have some kind of lung organ I think in the like, vital systems view we get in some menu

[icy prism]

Can shells eat is the real question

[craggy plank]

lol you went deep

[light python]

I bet they don't have digestive systems

just recharge/inject/filter cycles or something

[craggy plank]

haha well they have coolant instead of blood

[light python]

They need to be human-enough to not cause psychosis but cheap enough to sustain 75% loss rates when you teleport them to Tau Ceti IV

Maybe the "lungs" are just heat-exchangers for the coolent? Shells are hot

Evidence: thermal scopes

[icy prism]

I imagine they probably can eat in emergencies considering they are particularly biological but I imagine most of their power comes from batteries and shit

[light python]

in which case you wouldn't need oxygen for vac, you'd need sacrifical coolant

[craggy plank]

They just resemble human like anatomy, everything else is perhaps just bunch of printed living organs mashed with tech

[dreamy hawk]

Do they need to be cheap? Or is that how the keep us as debt slaves?

[light python]

I mean, regardless of the accounting,

[icy prism]

I mean they cost a trillion

[light python]

that loss rate has to be worth it

[icy prism]

They probably recycle as much of the shells as possible imo

[dreamy hawk]

Shells, used the way we do, are more exceptional to. Most biomata are designed to be more permanent.

[tawny pagoda]

Can the shells enjoy drinkable cheeseburger 😭

[light python]

I think the "what it is a trillian bucks" refers to like, the entire development cost for biomata shells up to and including that particular stolen MIDA series

[icy prism]

Hopefully

[light python]

Can anyone enjoy drinkable cheeseburger?

The options appear to be 400-year-old yeast slop or fresh psychadelic-and-shit-slop

[craggy plank]

When robots do everything, everything becomes cheaper to produce. Perhaps they they work like ensurance companies, they take the risk some times some will make them lose money. But in the long run, they win becose their stuff is only done by runners

[icy prism]

That makes sense

[tawny pagoda]

• What is Onis role, like she gets mad when she finds out Nona is doing expirements, like how does it affect the runner other than mental

[dreamy hawk]

https://codex.cyberacme.systems/entry/weaveworm-stasis-knot/an-introduction-to-sythsilk
Bone, tendons, muscle, nerves, veins, organs, skin layers, and more are all threaded in delicately synchronized patterns.

[light python]

You can't recycle what you don't extract!

[dreamy hawk]

Shells are like human bodies, minus a functioning “soul” which is what your digitized consciousness provides.

[light python]

(Except maybe that's where the neural links for rooks are cobbled together from)

And also minus the major joint complexes

[dreamy hawk]

Despite our using them as replaceable goods, they’re actually designed to be pretty human (and better than).

[tawny pagoda]

Ah what was the lore item you get, they have a device that clears off the blood so they can make another shell

[light python]

look at the lego knees and hips on these things

[tawny pagoda]

Sidenote I love the use of Apriltags in everything

[craggy plank]

the joints look very robotic, so I don't think all tendons and structure is human like. Maybe parts of it

[dreamy hawk]

The proprietary blend of biocybernetics that WEAVEworms achieve in the printing of their biomatic shells provides a natural "living" experience for the occupying human mind beyond any other body replacement technology. This foundational comfort allows Sekiguchi Genetics' shell technology unique flexibility when it comes to systems and living augmentation.

[icy prism]

I mean do they have a sole. That question is way beyond our current understanding lol

In lore we don't really know

[light python]

One sole for each foot I believe

[dreamy hawk]

“Soul”

[icy prism]

Typo

[tawny pagoda]

Like its so perfect

[dreamy hawk]

I atleast meant my air quotes.

[icy prism]

It's alright :3

[tawny pagoda]

So if a runner didnt have a digestive system, would that make them go crazy or something? If they have it maybe that would be the explanation

[dreamy hawk]

Think Exos from Destiny.

[icy prism]

For my fan fic I'ma assume shells can run on calories

[dreamy hawk]

It’s not confirmed but there’s hints that it’s similar.

[light python]

In Old Man's War the new bodies are green 'cause they do photosynthesis to supplement dietary energy

[digital plaza]

They sure are 😎

[light python]

I bet you're going to want to talk about if the thief feet technically have soles or not next

[tawny pagoda]

Omg the lungs moving coolant as pumps wait

Would that not be the heart actually

Hmn

[light python]

They look like lung-heart things to me

symmetry

redundancy

Even in humans the cardio-reperatory system is closely linked

Also the thing that makes us use heat better is called "Cardio kick" so

[tawny pagoda]

Trew

Cardio kick + Vandal Q

I zoom across the map lol

[median hemlock]

even if they don't require oxygen intake/CO2 outtake, I'm sure building the physical ability to "breathe" into your human body replacement tech helps a lot for putting their mind at ease

[light python]

I do a lot of weird drugs I find on the ground on Tau Ceti IV

[icy prism]

I imagine the liquid in shells does also move oxygen to the living parts of the shell. Many animals do have blue blood for that purpose so they could be using that

[tawny pagoda]

Depleted cardio kit, patch kit, i found it on the ground, im using it

[lunar cove]

Some even have toes

[light python]

I think breathing is more important to feeling embodied than digesting but as someone who does both all the time I could be wrong.

[icy prism]

I would hope you do both all the time lol

[tawny pagoda]

Runnah. You are now manually breathin

Sorry chat

[light python]

Man _gantry is such a self-parody,

I don't even know how to feel about him.

[icy prism]

I wish rook and claymore hell upon you

/j.

[tawny pagoda]

I love gantry

His voice is stuck in my head lol

Also someone pointed out, all the other faction heads look down on you, hes the only one looking up

[terse wren]

These structures are all fundamentally cellular. So they have cells. To have cells you have to have a genome. Even if it's a synthetic genome the template has to come from somewhere. So someone's genome, or several people's genomes, are locked in our shells.

Or I mean they could be e.g. squid muscles but then you have immune rejection and/or lack of ability to interface because of differing cell-cell communication & attachment protein repertoires

[tawny pagoda]

That does explain weaveworms in a way

[icy prism]

Personally I think shells are a culmination of cellular sized machinery and biological components, probably partially standardised

[terse wren]

UNLESS they are muscles etc. etc. by analogy and not homology. They could be completely designed nanomaterials with tiny molecular motors and stuff and they're similar enough to nerves and muscle that they can fool a posthuman mind into thinking it's in a body.

[visual lynx]

yup! https://dev.geekofalltrades.org/msp-modernized/

[terse wren]

That probably is closer to it

[latent python]

It would explain why we're full of blue goo

Our weird analogically bio bodies require blue and not red goo

[icy prism]

i mean animals irl have blue blood

[terse wren]

Interestingly blue blood is a thing. It uses a copper-based transport molecule

And get this

[icy prism]

may be more effective for shells to yse that form

[terse wren]

It's good in low oxygen high pressure conditions

[icy prism]

yeah makes sense

tau ceti 4 probabls has similar conditions

[terse wren]

It's just more resistant to temp and environment variation in general

But it's less efficient

[visual lynx]

that would be far more universe-shrinking than TCIV being the previously-unspecified final destination of the Dreaming God from the Yucatan

[terse wren]

Maybe idk. Another idea I guess is that sleeping wrks are everywhere

[icy prism]

it could be modified with something else to increase efficiency whilst maintaining its colour as a by-product

[terse wren]

Like the old idea of the C'tan in 40k (which I swear were inspired by the Marathon w'rk) where many (most?) stars had em but they mostly just swam around on their surfaces grazing

[terse wren]

w liquid cheeseburger

[icy prism]

lol

btw cus they are partially biological this means they need calories

[rancid belfry]

That's what's in the panacea kit